Child Support (Enforcement) Bill

Mims Davies Excerpts

2nd reading
Friday 9th December 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies)]

It is an honour to speak in this debate, and I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud (Siobhan Baillie) for introducing the Bill and raising this important issue. I am pleased to confirm that the Government intend to support the Bill.

I was going to start by providing a brief background on the purpose of the CMS, but many Members have done a brilliant job on that so I will instead turn to the context of the Bill, making a couple of points and answering some questions, of course. I also want to pay tribute to all the DWP teams that work tirelessly in this space delivering the CMS service so diligently. As a constituency MP and a friend to many single parents, I have seen cases where help from former partners is needed to support children; making sure positive arrangements are in place is crucial to youngsters in every constituency.

I must declare an interest as a single mum. I know personally how important it is for children to know, where possible, that they have the support of both parents, both financially and emotionally. I thank the Gingerbread charity for its advocacy work. I concur with many of the points made today. Our Minister in the other place, Baroness Stedman-Scott, who has day-to-day responsibility for the policy, is strident in her support for reducing parent conflict and making sure that children get the backing that they need and deserve from both parents. We are determined to ensure that the CMS process improves.

I thank all hon. Members who have contributed, including my hon. Friend the Member for Bosworth (Dr Evans), who raised the CMS process and the other private Member’s Bill, the Child Support Collection (Domestic Abuse) Bill, which will be in Committee very shortly. I am delighted to have his support. There were thoughtful contributions from my hon. Friends the Members for Newbury (Laura Farris), for Darlington (Peter Gibson) and for Bracknell (James Sunderland). My hon. Friend the Member for Devizes (Danny Kruger) rightly paid great tribute to MPs’ caseworkers, who deal with the challenges and manage both sides of this issue day in, day out. We are grateful to them. On the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Broadland (Jerome Mayhew) about the delays in court and liability orders, it takes three to six months from the case being referred to court for a liability order to be granted. We expect that to reduce significantly.

On the wider point about the Child Support Collection (Domestic Abuse) Bill introduced by my hon. Friend the Member for Hastings and Rye (Sally-Ann Hart), I am glad to endorse what many Members have said. The Bill will allow for cases to be moved from direct pay to the collect and pay service when one parent is a victim of domestic abuse. That is an important measure, and I am grateful to hear further support for it in the Chamber today. Its Committee stage is forthcoming.

On the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Newbury about why compliance figures have been decreasing, the Child Maintenance Service has been experiencing falling compliance figures since March 2021 after a period of improving compliance. A key driver of falling compliance is the difficulty of deducting child maintenance from universal credit payments. Universal credit prioritises other third-party deductions ahead of child maintenance deductions. Let me reassure the House that work is ongoing with universal credit policy colleagues to identify how deductions for child maintenance can be rightly reprioritised, and to recognise that collect and pay deals often with the most difficult cases. Parents can co-operate and make their own arrangements—that is one scenario—but we are talking about the difficult scenarios.

I thank the hon. Member for Reading East (Matt Rodda) for raising concerns about backlogs. The CMS is committed to delivering service of the highest standards and has been recognised with customer service accreditation, an independent validation of achievement. It responds quickly to parents using the service. In the quarter ending June 2022, 84% of changes in circumstances had been actioned in 28 days. I say to parents that, as we heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes, if something has changed, they should let the CMS know. Call handling has been improved, with calls directed to the most appropriate person.

I would like to pick up on what my hon. Friend said about why maintenance calculations changes are factored in. Parents are able to report changes of income at any time. I reiterate that to him and any of our caseworkers. Where that change is greater than 25% of the income we hold on our system, we will alter their liability. Parents can ask for a calculation decision by the CMS to be reviewed through the mandatory reconsideration process within 30 days. If they are still not satisfied, they can appeal to the tribunal service.

[Danny Kruger]

I very much appreciate that point and that is indeed the case. I just wonder why 25% is the cut-off. It is quite a large amount. If a change comes in just underneath that, why should not that be considered as well?

[Mims Davies]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising that. I do not personally know the answer, but I am happy to look at that point and write to him.

[James Sunderland]

The Minister is talking eloquently about the need for courts to uphold and the need for parents to be chased for the money that they owe through the CMS. By the same token, although it is not within the scope of the Bill today, could she comment on the ongoing plight of those who do not have access to their children—those who are prevented from seeing them? We can all recall the plight of Fathers 4 Justice—Spiderman hanging from the gantries on the M25. It is important that we discuss, or at least raise today, the issue that it works both ways and that we also have to give deference in law to those seeking access to their children.

[Mims Davies]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising that. He is right to say that. We have seen this in our constituency surgeries: there are always two sides to every story. It is right that we have processes that are able to respond to that and that parents are able to see and engage with their children. I reiterate that my hon. Friend in the other place, who has day-to-day policy responsibility for this matter, is very much focused on reducing parental conflict. Above all, this is about supporting children, getting them the best start and ongoing support to thrive in life.

Let me make some progress on the importance of today’s Bill. Child maintenance payments provide vital support to separated parents. Approximately 140,000 fewer children are growing up in poverty as a result of child maintenance payments. This includes payments through the family-based process and through the service. As my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud has already stated, in the past 12 months, more than £1 billion-worth of support was arranged and collected through the Child Maintenance Service. That exemplifies the intent of the service, which is to promote collaboration between separated parents and encourage parents to meet their responsibilities in providing for their children, meaning that youngsters get the financial support that they need for that good start in life.

Research shows that children tend to have better emotional wellbeing and higher academic attainment growing up with parents who, together or indeed separated, have that good-quality relationship and are able to manage conflict well. Child maintenance cases are managed by two processes, as we discussed earlier. The collect and pay caseloads are more challenging. That is where a collaborative arrangement has either failed or not been possible. Therefore, these parents are considered less likely to meet their payment responsibilities.

We know the difference that child maintenance can make in people’s day-to-day lives, so unpaid child maintenance should be paid immediately. We know that the vast majority of parents want to do the right thing to support their children financially. Where a parent fails to pay on time or in full, our strategy is to tackle payment breakdowns at the earliest opportunity and to take action to re-establish compliance and collect any unpaid amounts where they have been accrued.

The Child Maintenance Service is able to deduct £8.40 a week towards ongoing maintenance or arrears from certain prescribed benefits, as I have discussed. Where measures prove ineffective or inappropriate in collecting arrears, the CMS will apply to the court service or the sheriff court for the liability order.

The liability order enables the use of more stringent powers, as we have heard, and we are able to take more serious action. Since June 2022, the Child Maintenance Service has collected £2.7 million from paying parents with the court-based enforcement action in process. We regularly review processes and policies in line with best practice to deliver the best outcomes for parents and children, and I note the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Devizes.

[Matt Rodda]

rose—

[Mims Davies]

I just wanted to turn to the hon. Gentleman’s point. I would like to write to him on that as I am not the Minister responsible for that day to day. I hope that he will understand.

The details of these powers will be set out in secondary legislation, with the right for a liable parent to appeal against an administrative liability order. Regulation powers and other provisions will be included. That means that proper scrutiny can be undertaken by the Government and the relevant Committee. We can then make sure that the regulations include the right to appeal. Those regulations will also be subject to the affirmative procedure.

The Bill is of great importance for the Child Maintenance Service. It will make sure that we make the necessary improvements we have heard about today to the enforcement process and, above all, that we get the money to children more quickly. I am pleased that the Bill has been introduced, and I commend my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud for bringing it to the House.

Baby Banks: Government Support

Mims Davies Excerpts

Friday 9th December 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies)]

It is a pleasure to respond to the debate, and I congratulate the hon. Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) on securing it.

This is a time of—understandably—great public concern about the cost of living. I personally was so grateful, as a new mum, for the advice that I received, along with the bargains, hand-me-downs, products, ideas and insights on what really matters in that bewildering time. Who knew that you needed a Bumbo seat? I never thought I would use that term here in the House of Commons, but it is an infant seat to help babies to sit up when they are taking their first solid food, especially during baby-led weaning.

My mum’s Poundland box, of which she was incredibly proud, was an absolute marvel. We still have it, with all of the paraphernalia inside. The hand-me-downs mentioned by the hon. Lady, such as smocked dresses, came my way. I was very proud when I arrived home last night to find my oldest doing a shoes and clothes clear-out to help others, mindful of both need and the environment. There is currently a coat exchange to help people in my town of Haywards Heath. There is huge pressure on new parents to have new things and buy new things, and to make sure everything is perfect, but we know that our lovely little terrors get their sticky mitts on everything and draw on everything, and they do not really care. Sharing advice, products and information about what really works makes a big difference.

As Minister responsible for social mobility, youth and progression, I fully understand the hon. Lady’s point about “invest to save”. It is my mission in Government. I also note the points that she made about the landfill tax, fly-tipping and other matters. I will keep this debate in mind when we come to the next stage of the design of the household support fund, and will think about how we can reach parents and understand the pressures they experience.

Let me reassure the hon. Lady and the House that the Government are committed to providing key support for families with new babies and very young children through targeted support and more general schemes, and by expanding both employment and skills opportunities for parents. Many mums, as we have heard, use the opportunity to grow their thinking and turn things they have learned into future businesses—never more so than in the mum arena.

The support schemes available include the Sure Start maternity grant, the NHS’s healthy start scheme, family hubs, our childcare offer for recipients of universal credit, cost of living payments, the household support fund and the wider universal credit payment system, which got a significant uprating from April 2023. However, I take the hon. Lady’s point and, as a former charities Minister, I always admire the great work people take on for causes that matter to them, nationally, internationally and locally.

Baby banks are independent charitable organisations that help local communities to come together to support people nearby and are another example of the generosity of spirit in our great country. They are very welcome as a support network, as the hon. Lady mentioned, and as a showcase of community kindness. They are also environmentally friendly and positive. In researching for this debate, I found it eye-opening to see just how many brilliant organisations and individuals are aiding mums in that time of need.

[Christine Jardine]

On that point about environmental damage, one of the things the hon. Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) mentioned was the impact on the environment when she spoke so movingly about mothers reusing nappies. I find myself, in this recycling age, doing things my mother did, such as having glass milk bottles and paper bags in shops. Would there be a way of encouraging the comeback of reusable nappies such as those we used to have when I was a child? I remember, although it was a while ago now, just how expensive and what a drain on someone’s income the constant buying of nappies can be.

[Mims Davies]

The hon. Lady makes an important point. Speaking to many mums and grandmums, having baby in the garden in the pram and pegging out the reusable nappies—those lovely white nappies—is a moment of pride: “I’m getting this right and it’s going well.” It is extortionately challenging to try to balance the environmental problem with nappies and also reusing; I know many mums who have managed to do that successfully; I must admit, to my shame, that that was not me, but I was very admiring of anyone who did manage it. We need to make those schemes more acceptable and understandable. Some people think they are strange and that the only option is disposable.

[Stella Creasy]

I hope the Minister will agree perhaps to meet me and representatives of Little Village and my own local baby bank to discuss this point. Many of our environmental organisations, particularly within local government, have schemes to encourage reusable nappies and recycling. However, that does not join up with a recognition of how that can help to tackle poverty, and it is baby banks that are doing that joining up. I am pleading for Government to do that joining up as well, so that is not just brilliant volunteers at a local level saying, “Actually, there is a scheme for reusable nappies from our local environmental charity”, but Government helping to make that network happen. If she meets the organisations I mentioned, she will find people who would be fantastic advocates to take to other Government Departments on these issues, for example.

[Mims Davies]

The hon. Lady makes in important point: the cost of living, nappies and the environment, Healthy Start and ensuring that those most in need know where to turn and are not overlooked are all cross-Government issues. I will take her point away across Government to look at the right way to take forward what she is asking for. I hope that is helpful to her.

I want to mention the work that many people do knitting hats and supporting newborns. One of the biggest things I learned as a new mum is how much warmth newborns need. People in this space add so much that, whether through knitting, advice, or creating baby banks. I was certainly quite surprised to see just how much the sector has grown. I understand the hon. Lady’s passion for and interest in this particular area, and this debate has certainly sparked my interest, so I thank her very much for bringing it to the House.

The Sure Start maternity grant provides £500 in England, Wales and Northern Ireland for costs associated with the expenses of caring for a baby—as we have heard, becoming a parent is a very expensive business—if there are no other children under the age of 16 in the claimant’s family. The Sure Start maternity grant was devolved to Scotland in December 2018, and the Scottish Government have established alternative support through the Best Start scheme.

The NHS Healthy Start scheme also provides £4.25 a week to eligible low-income families in England, Wales and Northern Ireland to buy fresh fruit and vegetables, with recipients also eligible for free Healthy Start vitamins to help them to boost their children’s long-term health.

To give families holistic support, family hubs are bringing together services for children of all ages. I am particularly interested in how that links into the start for life offer, which is at the core of those. The Government are investing more than £300 million jointly with the Department for Education and the Department of Health and Social Care to transform our start for life services from conception to age two. That includes boosting family support services in 75 local authorities in England.

The Government are providing a network of family hubs. I note that that is not the same thing that the hon. Lady talked about, but that is how we assist positive parent and infant relationships, support perinatal mental health and infant feeding, and boost and help people with their parenting skills. In addition, the DFE will ask all those 75 local areas to publish their start for life offer and will provide funding on innovative trials of workforce models for a smaller number of authorities. I wonder whether that is a way to link in some of what has been discussed today.

I reiterate that the Government’s universal credit childcare offer aims to make it easier for low-income families to choose to work, stay in work and progress in work, so that after the baby comes, parents can move to a point where they can be more financially resilient. I remind people that eligible UC claimants can claim back 85% of their registered childcare costs each month, regardless of the number of hours that they work, compared with 70% in tax credits.

Additionally, those who need extra financial support with their first set of childcare costs or when moving into work or taking on additional hours can apply for further help from the flexible support fund. That discretionary, non-repayable payment will pay their initial childcare costs directly to the provider. Help is available for eligible universal credit claimants through budgeting advances.

I say to anybody struggling, listening, or helping and advising in the sector, “Please look at the benefits calculator on gov.uk and at the cost of living website. Please make sure that you are claiming everything that you are entitled to, because there may be further help out there that you are not aware of. There is also the Help for Households campaign. We are helping with £37 billion of support for cost of living pressures between 2022 and 2023, and an extra £26 billion was announced for that purpose in the autumn statement, so please make sure that you reach out. For households on eligible means-tested benefits, up to £900 in cost of living payments is available for people to take up.”

[Stella Creasy]

The Minister is setting out the help that the Government believe there is for those on low incomes. Baby banks are a big boost for tackling poverty, but there is an environmentally sustainable element. We want to encourage everybody, whether they are wealthy or not, to donate, because families do not need a cot or a pushchair for that long. They will be perfectly serviceable for someone else to use. One of the benefits of baby banks is that they ensure that the quality of the items is such that people will want to reuse them. That revolution in thinking is not one for those on the lowest incomes alone but for everyone if we are to save the planet as well as saving parents cash.

[Mims Davies]

I absolutely agree. This is not revolutionary thinking but old-fashioned sensible thinking that is suitable for our environment and our families. An issue that parents often worry about is quality, and sharing and responsibility when it comes to reusing items. I take the hon. Lady’s point about safety. We have seen that particular charities are willing to take some products but not others. That means that, as she pointed out, sometimes very large, useful products are the things that you see stuck on the side of the road, creating fly-tipping problems. But they could be incredibly useful for young families if they can be accredited.

I want to reassure the House that the Government are taking action to support families on low incomes. We will continue to remain vigilant about what people need in these challenging times, particularly those who are most vulnerable, or indeed those who are on the just-about-managing list—a lot of people who have come into focus due to the impact of the covid pandemic. I urge those people to reach out and know that there is help for them.

I thank the hon. Lady for her work and for securing this debate on the value of baby banks. I remind people of the Sure Start maternity grant, Healthy Start, family hubs, the childcare offer, cost of living payments, the household support fund and our benefit uprating. We will tackle the root cause of poverty, but it is right that, where communities can, they do everything they can to help families in need.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Mims Davies Excerpts

Monday 5th December 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies)]

The Government are providing generous, tailored support for parents through universal credit, the free childcare entitlement and skills support to help parents to get into work and to progress. Eligible claimants can receive financial support for up-front childcare costs as well as support for ongoing costs.

[Mike Amesbury]

Sandra in the Northwich part of my constituency—like many people up and down the United Kingdom, predominantly women—faces a significant barrier as a result of increased childcare costs. The childcare element of universal credit has been frozen since 2016. When does the Minister intend to do the right thing and unfreeze that element of universal credit?

[Mims Davies]

Universal credit-eligible claimants can claim up to 85% of their registered childcare costs each month, regardless of the number of hours they work; I would compare that favourably with 70% in tax credits. What I would say to employers who may be overlooking single parents is that they are not understanding the wide range of childcare challenges. I am a single mum—I get it. Looking at job design and flexibility is equally important.

[Liz Twist (Blaydon) (Lab)]

10. What assessment he has made with Cabinet colleagues of the adequacy of levels of benefit payments to support people with disabilities with the cost of energy.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)]

T8. My constituent, Brandon, was medically discharged from the armed forces in 2020 after serving six years. He sustained a number of physical injuries and mental health consequences, but the DWP is failing to adhere to the armed forces covenant and to recognise the Ministry of Defence’s medical assessment for universal credit purposes, or to recognise the assessment of Combat Stress for personal independence payment purposes. Will the Minister consider his case and take the appropriate action to address those deficits?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies)]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising that matter and it is a concern. There are 11 armed forces leaders and 50 champions across the DWP. I would be very happy to look at this particular case, if he were able to raise it directly with me.

[Sir Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

We were grateful for the answers that the Secretary of State gave at the Work and Pensions Committee meeting last week, and we are looking forward to him returning on 11 January. He has been pressed this afternoon, repeatedly and rightly, about local housing allowance, and I have heard his answers to those questions. Next year will be the fourth year that the local housing allowance has been frozen at its current level, during a period when rents have risen sharply. Does he recognise that the case for rebasing local housing allowance, so that it reflects actual local rents, is becoming a very pressing one?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mims Davies]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising the issue. This is the first I have heard of it and I would be keen to meet him and hear more about it.

[Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab)]

Many Barnsley pensioners would be better off if they were on pension credit. Why will the Government not automatically enrol all pensioners on pension credit to help to lift them out of poverty?

Draft Biocidal Products (Health and Safety) (Amendment) Regulations 2022

Mims Davies Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd November 2022 General Committees

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Biocidal Products (Health and Safety) (Amendment) Regulations 2022.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Robertson. This draft statutory instrument was laid before Parliament on 18 October. It is a technical change only, and there are no policy changes. It relates to biocidal products, which are used to control harmful organisms and include disinfectants, insecticides and rodenticides. These products have important roles in protecting human health and critical infrastructure, and it is therefore essential to society that their legal supply is not disrupted.

Although biocidal products are critical to society, they can pose risks to human health, animal health and the environment if used incorrectly. Therefore, to allow a biocidal product on the GB market, a two-step authorisation process is in place. First, the active substances used in biocidal products must be approved. Approval involves a rigorous scientific evaluation to ensure safety and efficacy—a process that takes one to two years and costs approximately £180,000. If an active substance is approved, applications can be made to authorise biocidal products containing that active substance. This evaluation looks at the safety and efficacy of the formulation—a process that takes about a year and costs approximately £25,000. As Members will understand, the applications are large dossiers of scientific data, and require complex evaluation and assessment by a range of specialist scientific disciplines to ensure that there is no danger to human health, animal health or the environment. The Health and Safety Executive operates a cost recovery model, so applicants bear the full cost of processing applications.

Biocidal products are regulated under the Great Britain biocidal products regulation—GB BPR—which was retained following EU exit. The authorisation process in Great Britain is similar to the EU, except where references to EU arrangements were replaced by domestic arrangements. Also retained in the legislation were legal deadlines by which applications should be processed. Those legal deadlines were in place to ensure consistency across the EU in how long was given to process applications and to provide transparency to applicants. While the UK was still in the EU, a steady stream of applications was processed across EU member states, though even at that time, deadlines were often missed.

In preparation to meet our ambition for the HSE to become a world-class stand-alone chemicals regulator following the UK’s departure from the EU, significant investment has been made to increase the HSE’s capacity and capability, and to embed new processes and procedures. Through a major transformation programme, the HSE’s headcount for its chemicals regulation division has increased by around 40%, with ongoing significant investment in both people and IT.

As part of EU exit preparations, transitional arrangements were put in place to ensure a smooth transition for businesses to the new domestic systems. Those arrangements required businesses that had applications in process at the end of the implementation period to re-submit them to the HSE by deadlines in 2021 if they wanted to retain access to the GB market. Under the arrangements, biocidal products already on the GB market could continue to be made available until their application was processed. It was unknown at the time how many re-submissions would be made by applicants to access the GB market until those deadlines passed.

I am pleased to report that more than 70% of the biocides applications seeking access to the UK market under the previous EU system have been resubmitted to GB. That clearly shows that the industry has faith in the GB market and in the HSE as the regulator, but it also generates a greater workload than was originally anticipated. As a result, it is not possible to process the large one-off influx of biocidal product authorisation applications within the legal deadlines in place.

The HSE has been hindered by its loss of access to EU databases that hold historical reports containing scientific information relevant to the processing of applications. However, a resolution should be in place by the time the information is required to process the applications. The HSE will also consider what future digital solutions may be required once a resolution has been implemented. Nevertheless, we must recognise that the issue has caused some further delays in the processing of applications.

Following EU exit, the legal deadlines in the Great Britain biocidal products regulation amount to deficiencies in current retained EU law; therefore, the appropriate course of action available to the HSE is to make technical amendments through this statutory instrument under the powers in the European Union (Withdrawal) Act 2018 to remedy deficiencies in the current legal framework. The technical changes proposed by the statutory instrument are straightforward: the legal deadlines in place to process biocidal product authorisation applications will be temporarily extended for an additional five years.

The period of five years is derived from resource modelling from the transformation programme to which I referred earlier. It represents the amount of time that the HSE forecasts it will take to address the backlog and return to a position in which applications can be processed within the original legal deadlines. I trust it is understood that the processing of applications is not simply a rubber-stamping exercise and that it requires highly trained staff who cannot simply be brought in in large numbers at short notice.

To clarify, the amendment to the legal deadlines should have no impact on businesses. An extension of the deadlines does not cause any additional cost to the applicant; instead, this statutory instrument provides legal certainty that when biocidal products are on the GB market awaiting the outcome of their application, they can remain there. That may not otherwise have been the case had the legal deadlines been missed. In turn, that ensures that there is no disruption to the legal supply of essential biocidal products while the applications are cleared.

The statutory instrument will affect a small number of new biocidal product authorisation applications. However, those applications will be prioritised to ensure that where businesses are waiting for authorisations before they can supply their products, they will not experience any delays.

Finally, this statutory instrument also adds an additional transitional measure—an oversight in the previous EU exit statutory instruments—that allows a type of biocidal product authorisation application called “same product applications” to transition to the GB market and be treated in the same way as other applications. This, too, has no impact on businesses. It is a technical correction to ensure that the biocide regime is fully functioning as intended.

I hope it is helpful for the Committee to know that this statutory instrument was robustly debated in the other place and passed without challenge. I can confirm that consent to make the statutory instrument has been obtained from Ministers in Scottish and Welsh Governments, in line with the normal conventions. The regulation of biocides in Northern Ireland follows separate arrangements under the Northern Ireland protocol and is not affected by this instrument. I hope colleagues of all parties will join me in supporting the draft regulations, which I commend to the Committee.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mims Davies]

I have many notes. I thank the hon. Member for Lewisham, Deptford for her questions and the spirit of them—I am being passed even more notes, so I feel pretty sure that I can answer most of her questions.

Let us start with the most important issue: resourcing and funding. The HSE has already increased the number of staff working on chemicals regulation by around 40% from 256 in March 2020 to 355 in March 2022, with further significant recruitment planned over the next two to three years, which I hope answers the question raised by the hon. Member for Birmingham, Hall Green. That reflects the need for increased resources for the HSE’s post-EU exit responsibilities.

Likewise, the total budget for the HSE’s chemicals regulation division has grown by 39% from £22.4 million to £31.2 million between 2018-19 and 2022-23. It was always anticipated that it would take several years to reach full operating capacity following Brexit, due to the need to recruit and train large numbers of new staff in specialist disciplines required for chemicals regulation.

It is an honour to be the Minister responsible for the HSE. The depth of work it does across covid and all sectors is a joy to behold and learn from, with its cost recovery scheme and the way that it works. One of its recruitment plans is to grow and progress more of its own people, which I very much welcome.

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)]

Given what the Minister just said, does she see it as a matter of regret that we have lost over 400 HSE inspectors since 2010? During the covid crisis, their roles had to be adopted by debt collectors, who were performing their functions by inspecting premises and carrying out tick-box exercises in their stead.

[Mims Davies]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that point. In the time that I have been working with the HSE as a Minister, whether on visits to Derbyshire or to Bootle, I have been really impressed with its ingenuity and the way it has got people to come into the sector, grown its local workforce and given people opportunities. It is brilliant at bringing people in and training them. If he is saying that we welcome people from all walks of life to come into this growing sector, we are on the same page.

[Sir Jake Berry (Rossendale and Darwen) (Con)]

Will the Minister confirm that, as part of this welcome recruitment drive, the ministerial head of the HSE will insist that all new employees have to work from an office base, rather than working from home? We are talking about deep scientific research, a key part of which is collaboration. I understand that the Government cannot do much about civil servants who had their terms and conditions altered during covid, but will she confirm that, on an ongoing basis, the civil servants she is recruiting into the HSE will have to work from an office, rather than from home?

[Mims Davies]

My right hon. Friend is right to talk about learning and development within the business, which is really important. In my engagement with and visits to the HSE, it has been very clear about that, but it also has many people in the field and around the country who balance working from home with working from the base where they deliver their processes. It is a mixed picture, but I am happy to look at that point and raise it with management.

The HSE’s chemicals regulation division has reached full capacity and will be in a position to meet the usual timescales set out in the legislation, but it is important to bring this measure to the House, to give us the time to achieve this recruitment and, ultimately, make sure that this area is safe and works. I hope that reassures hon. Members.

The hon. Member for Lewisham, Deptford asked why we have to do this and whether we envisaged the timetables. The changes will ensure that regulatory deadlines provide sufficient time for the HSE to clear the backlog of applications, and will give legal certainty to the affected businesses, whose products, vitally, will be able to remain on the market while their applications are, rightfully, assessed.

The active substances will be reviewed by the HSE, and the legislation allowing flexibility and timeliness should be welcome. I reassure hon. Members that the work to review the programme is in development. The HSE will continue to communicate and engage with stakeholders on its work in due course. It has already started work on evaluating the active substance applications, which fall outside the formal review programme.

There was a question about how the businesses will be notified about applications. Businesses have been notified and have submitted more than 400 biocidal product applications. That includes new applications, changes to existing authorisations and renewals, while 250 are complex new applications, which require the most resources. Compared with the EU workload, that represents about 70% more than anticipated, but I strongly believe that the HSE can withstand that. I thank the hon. Member for Lewisham, Deptford for making those points.

I have covered the staffing measures. On the long-standing transition arrangements that allow the biocidal products to stay on the market until their applications are assessed, most affected products have previously been on the market for many years, and in most cases in the EU as well. I reassure colleagues that this is nothing for us to worry about. The HSE has the experts, and the draft regulations will allow it to do its work and to monitor as it can and should.

The HSE has a process for monitoring international scientific information of relevance to UK active substances and products, including the EU assessments. Should new evidence emerge, the HSE will again work with any relevant regulatory agencies and take any suitable action as a result.

[Andy McDonald]

The Minister is being generous in giving way. Given the commitments she has made this afternoon, is she able to give any indication to the Committee as to the increase in the HSE’s budget following the autumn statement? It has an awful lot more work to do.

[Mims Davies]

I am happy to write to the hon. Gentleman about the budget. I have information about the staffing that I can give him, but I point to the cost recovery in this area. The HSE is exemplary on that. I am happy to write to him with more detail, if that is helpful.

I want to cover data; forgive me, I have so many notes here, I cannot find the bit on data. Here we go—so many bits of paper! I hope hon. Members appreciate that this is a technical instrument and it is important that we get it right. I would rather give more detail and data than less.

The HSE’s assessment of biocidal products remains based primarily on the data submitted by the businesses. They have to act for the authorisation in place for their products on the market. The businesses can continue to do that without access to the EU databases. That is not under threat. The risks of loss of access to the EU databases are being considered as part of HSE’s work to manage biocide authorisations taking into account the loss of access to EU databases, but HSE’s long-term objective is to develop solutions that will allow the authorisation processes to work without disruption, so that no risks materialise.

I hope that I have covered most of the questions put to me. I welcome the Committee considering the draft regulations. I reiterate that the statutory instrument is a technical change only and that there are no policy changes. It relates to biocidal products that are used to control harmful organisms, including disinfectants, insecticides and rodenticides—products that have important roles in protecting human health and critical infrastructure. The instrument will therefore allow us to ensure that the legal supply of such products is not impacted in the long term.

The draft instrument provides important additional time for the HSE to complete biocide authorisations while applications are addressed, and extends the relevant deadlines by a one-off period—I stress the “one-off”—of five years after the regulations come into force, by which time the HSE forecasts that the authorisations will have been cleared. After that, it will return to the normal processing times set out in legislation.

I remind the Committee that no cost to businesses arises from the changes made in this draft statutory instrument. Importantly, it provides legal certainty that, where biocidal products are already on market in Great Britain waiting for an authorisation decision, they can continue to be used and supplied. That will ensure that suppliers of biocides are treated fairly and that there is no disruption to the legal supply of essential biocidal products while the backlog of applications is cleared.

The draft regulations provide a transitional measure to supplement the existing Great Britain biocidal products regulation or GB BPR, bringing over the last elements of pre-EU exit regulation. That change ensures that a certain type of biocidal product authorisation application, namely same product applications, can be treated in an identical way to other applications. Again, that has no impact on businesses and is a technical correction to ensure the biocide regime is now fully functioning as intended.

To conclude, the draft instrument will provide the necessary extension to the legal deadlines to enable HSE to process affected biocidal product authorisation applications. That will provide legal certainty to businesses that biocidal products on the market awaiting their application to be processed can remain there. In turn, biocidal products essential to the functioning of society can continue to be made available and used appropriately.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Mims Davies Excerpts

Monday 31st October 2022 Commons Chamber

[Dan Carden (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab)]

4. What assessment his Department has made of changes in the level of the sanction rate for universal credit between November 2021 and May 2022.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies)]

No assessment has been made. Emergency measures brought in during covid meant that the sanctions rate was artificially low. We always expected the rate to increase when we reintroduced face-to-face appointments and conditionality in order to help fill record numbers of job vacancies.

[Dan Carden]

I am disappointed with that answer. The current high rate of universal credit sanctions is unprecedented. Right now, twice as many people on universal credit are being sanctioned and having their benefits cut as did before the pandemic, three years ago. At this very moment, families face the reality of hunger and freezing homes because of soaring food prices and energy bills, as well as rising rents. Instead of making things harder for those who are struggling, and punishing those on the lowest incomes, will the Minister commit to raising social security in line with inflation and end the sanctions regime, which will only inflict more hardship and homelessness this winter on those in areas such as mine?

[Mims Davies]

I am afraid that I do not agree. People are sanctioned only if they fail to attend appointments without good reason, and fail to meet the requirements that they have agreed to meet. Conditionality is an important part of a fair and effective welfare system. It is right that there should be a system to encourage claimants to take reasonable steps to prepare for and move into work. I reiterate that claimants with severe mental health or wellbeing conditions are not subject to work-related requirements or sanctions.

[Ms Karen Buck (Westminster North) (Lab)]

The Secretary of State has indicated that there will be a difference in tone in the Department. There is a way that he can demonstrate that. The Department conducted an examination of the effect of sanctions and conditionality that his predecessor refused to publish. He has the opportunity to allow us to have an informed debate in the Chamber on the effectiveness of sanctions. Will he now publish that report?

[Mims Davies]

Sanctions are incredibly important to support the work coach in doing their job. This really matters, because engaging with the work coach is important where there can be underlying issues—if an individual is a care leaver or there is something going on at home. Sanctions do not apply to all claimants. As I said earlier, if an individual has limited capability to work or there are issues around how they can work, work coaches will use their full discretion to ensure that people are supported, but not engaging is not the right option.

[Bob Seely (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

5. What recent estimate he has made of the number of Isle of Wight residents who will receive the second cost of living payment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

23. What recent assessment he has made of the adequacy of benefits in meeting increases in the cost of living.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies)]

We have already taken decisive action to make work pay by cutting the universal credit taper rate to 55% and increasing UC work allowances, which mean that on average low-income households have about an extra £1,000 a year. In addition to that, two cost of living payments, which total £650, are being paid to more than 8 million low-income households on UC, tax credits, pension credits and legacy benefits. There has also been extra help for pensioners and those on disability benefits. That totals more than £37 billion this year.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

I am grateful for the Minister’s answer, but the Joseph Rowntree Foundation has warned that if social security does not get uprated with inflation, it will be the

“largest permanent deliberate real-terms cut”

to the basic rate of social security by a British Government in history. According to the Child Poverty Action Group, that would push 200,000 children into poverty. Even the UN rapporteur on extreme poverty and human rights warns that it will mean that “lives will be lost”. What will the Minister do to stop that?

[Mims Davies]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that question. I note that he will be visiting his Dumbarton Jobcentre Plus shortly, which I am sure will help him to see the range of interventions in jobcentres, as well as the benefits calculator and the cost of living interventions on gov.uk. I remind him that the Scottish Government have a range of powers, including the ability to provide their own welfare benefits to people in Scotland using existing reserved benefits. The Scottish Government can see how they would like to use their powers and budget themselves.

[Alison Thewliss]

Happy Hallowe’en, Mr Speaker. Many of my constituents have found social security payments inadequate, because they have not kept pace with the cost of living. For William Thompson and Anne McCurley, however, it is even more frustrating because they narrowly miss out on pension credits and all the passported benefits—Anne misses out by only £3 a week. Will the Minister review the cut-off so that as many people as possible can access the support that they badly need this winter?

[Mims Davies]

I thank the hon. Lady for the point, and I have mentioned two particular websites that I think are incredibly important for people to make sure they get every single bit of help they need. There is always a cut-off point, which is very challenging. I understand there is a huge amount of work going on in her own community to support people, including getting people into work and progressing them, and working with local employers. Of course, the pensions issue is something that the Secretary of State has just answered and will be further updated on 17 November.

[Chris Green (Bolton West) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for the answers she has already given for those people meeting the costs of living on social security payments. A big concern many of my constituents have is about the cost of energy over the course of the winter, and the Government have a plan for the next six months to support people. Can my hon. Friend give my constituents reassurance that that plan, when it comes towards its end, will be under review to see what ongoing support could be offered, if required?

[Mims Davies]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising that matter. I worked with the Prime Minister on the plan for jobs, and he has been very clear that he wants to protect the most vulnerable, which is why we are providing families with direct payments worth at least £1,200 over the winter. We will all look with interest at what the Chancellor does on the 17th.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Vicky Foxcroft (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab)]

Too many disabled people have been disproportionately hit by the cost of living crisis, with extra costs of over £600 a year. Sadly, we have seen too many unable to cope with this. The Information Commissioner ruled that the DWP unlawfully prevented the release of over 20 reports into the deaths of benefit claimants. We must be able to scrutinise whether the actions taken by the DWP were sufficient or timely enough to prevent the harms identified from happening again. So will the new Secretary of State agree to publish these and all other secret reports—and a yes or no would actually suffice?

[Mims Davies]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question, and I understand the Opposition have an interest in such reports. However, my role at the DWP is about people—helping people up and down the land—and that is what we are doing for people with disabilities. With the extra costs part of the disability payment, about 6 million will be helped by the extra one-off payment of £150, ensuring that we all across the DWP are focused on the most vulnerable.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

I welcome the new ministerial team to their place. I hope to meet the new Secretary of State in early course; it was quite difficult to secure a meeting with some of his predecessors, unfortunately. The new Prime Minister spoke of the difficult decisions that will have to be made, but the real difficult decisions are those being forced on our constituents—people on low incomes struggling to afford the basics, pay their bills, heat their homes or feed their children. Let us not forget the reality of the tragic human cost of over a decade of Tory austerity, which urgently needs to end. Does the Minister agree that uprating benefits in line with inflation is not a difficult decision, but is instead the only moral course of action?

[Mims Davies]

That is not a matter for me, but I would like to reiterate at the Dispatch Box that the Government fully understand the pressures we are all facing. We all have constituents facing these matters, and it is absolutely right that we take that decisive action to support people with their bills. Members are talking as if we are not supporting people, but there is £37 billion of help with the cost of living, including the £400 of non-repayable discounts to eligible households provided by the energy bills support scheme. In addition to the benefits calculator and the cost of living webpage on gov.uk, I would ask people please to reach out to their councils. Members are talking this afternoon as if there is no help, and it is important that our constituents know that that is far from the case.

--- Later in debate ---

[Tom Hunt (Ipswich) (Con)]

A few weeks ago, at Paul’s Sports and Social Club, I met my constituent Nigel Seaman, who is a veteran, to discuss his work with Combat2Coffee to get veterans who may be homeless or struggling with the transition to civilian life into work and employment. Will the Minister meet me and Nigel to discuss what more can be done to support excellent veterans’ charities such as Combat2Coffee with helping veterans into work?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies)]

I am very pleased that I am wearing my Help for Heroes band today. I am delighted to hear about the work of the charity that my hon. Friend mentions. We are working with our champions in jobcentres to get people who have been service leaders into work, and we have work coaches who are dedicated to that. I would be happy to meet my hon. Friend to find out more about the charity and tell him more about what we do in jobcentres.

[Marsha De Cordova (Battersea) (Lab)]

It appears that the Government’s plan to clear up the economic disaster that they created is to implement austerity 2.0. Nearly 1.5 million people, including many of my constituents, have now been pushed into poverty as a result of their policies: the cuts to the social security net, the benefit cap and the cuts to support for disabled people, as well as the cruel and inhumane conditionality and sanctions regime. What discussions is the new Secretary of State having with the Chancellor to ensure that those in low-income households will not have to face any further cuts to social security to help to clear up this mess created by his Government?

[Mims Davies]

The benefit cap is important because it restores fairness to the balance between those on working-age benefits and taxpayers in employment. Along with changes in the taper rate, this means that moving people into work wherever possible is the best way out of poverty.

[Peter Gibson (Darlington) (Con)]

Last year an estimated 1 million people of working age were receiving carer’s allowance. A constituent of mine, after three and a half years of caring for his father full time—his father passed away recently—is now unable to access jobseeker’s allowance because he is not considered to have been employed. What is my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State doing to rectify the position?

--- Later in debate ---

[Ronnie Cowan (Inverclyde) (SNP)]

A number of my constituents who work for the DWP have told me that they are not being given the enhanced holiday pay that they were promised in return for working overtime consistently. In response to my inquiry, the DWP has told me that current legislation provides no definition of regularity. Will the Minister please address this issue?

[Mims Davies]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising the matter; I shall be happy to look into it if he writes to me with the details.

[Nick Fletcher (Don Valley) (Con)]

I have written to the DWP twice about the relocation of back-office staff from Crossgate House in Doncaster city centre to Sheffield, but have received only negative replies. This is not what the staff want and, with many council offices empty owing to the new model of hybrid working, Doncaster is losing much-needed footfall. Will the Minister meet me so that we can establish whether the decision can be reversed?

[Mims Davies]

This is an issue that I was already looking into. I am aware of my hon. Friend’s concern, and I shall be happy to meet him and be given an update on the situation.

[Helen Morgan (North Shropshire) (LD)]

Along with many other Members who are present today, I have received a number of emails from concerned pensioners, including one who wrote that if the triple lock is not maintained:

“myself and many others will have to pare our spending even more. Occasional meet-ups with friends will be the next to go and then more and more people will become isolated and depressed.”

Does the Secretary of State agree that maintaining the triple lock will improve the health and wellbeing of our pensioners as we go into the winter?

Oral Answers to Questions

Mims Davies Excerpts

Monday 11th July 2022 Commons Chamber

[Julie Marson]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question. Kickstart has delivered more than 163,000 starts, and I think that is hugely to be welcomed. One of the things that is so amazing to me in this role is to recognise the absolute impact on the individual people concerned of those 160,000 job starts. That is something we should welcome.

[Mims Davies (Mid Sussex) (Con)]

I congratulate the Secretary of State and her updated DWP team on their successes up and down the country. It is okay that it is my hon. Friend the Member for Hertford and Stortford who is at the Dispatch Box, rather than anyone else. Delivering help and opportunities up and down the country—true levelling up in action in jobcentres—has been the difference for the Way to Work campaign. Can I ask my hon. Friend, the new Minister, how she is looking to continue to progress for everybody, building on the success of getting half a million people into work through the Way to Work scheme?

DWP Office Closures

Mims Davies Excerpts

Thursday 23rd June 2022 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies)]

I thank the hon. Member for Glasgow South West (Chris Stephens) for securing the debate and for his immense interest in this issue, and I also note his register of interests declaration, but I want to take this opportunity to reassure him that there are currently no planned changes that would affect his constituency.

I have very proudly held the role of employment Minister at the Department for Work and Pensions for almost three years now and I greatly recognise the tireless efforts of our workforce up and down the country. From St Austell to Loughborough to Forres, I visit offices and meet staff regularly, and hear at first hand their experiences and some frustrations with the poor quality buildings, some of which have no proper kitchen facilities for example, but in which they are nevertheless delivering truly excellent DWP services.

Our staff are always positive and focused, and this was especially noticeable during the pandemic when their agility and commitment shone through as thousands of DWP staff were redeployed to process new claims, which doubled in a matter of weeks. This was a truly heroic effort, resulting in payment timeliness for our claimants remaining incredibly high and, vitally, vulnerable people receiving the support they needed in their time of need. I am proud and immensely grateful that our DWP Jobcentre Plus offices remained open throughout the pandemic for the most vulnerable.

Importantly, this transformation needs to be viewed alongside the significant recent investment in DWP frontline services. Since the start of the pandemic we have —or, rather, I have—opened 194 new temporary additional jobcentres as part of our rapid estate expansion programme to support our Plan for Jobs. We have also recruited 13,500 new work coaches in order to provide our claimants with the tailored face-to-face support they need. This new boost to our DWP workforce has played a leading role in delivering on our vital plan for jobs, getting people back into work and transitioning into growing sectors as we focus on building back better. I am incredibly proud of the over 163,000 young people under 25 most at risk of long-term unemployment due to covid impact who took advantage of the life-changing ability to take up a first job through the kickstart scheme and our brilliant Way to Work scheme which is on track to get half a million more people into work this year.

I want to strongly reassure Members here today that staff are being fully supported throughout this modernisation. While we are right-sizing our estate and making the DWP a better place to work—which is at the heart of this—we understand, and I very much do, that a change of work- place can be unsettling for people. However, we are committed to our plan of making our estate smaller, greener and—importantly, as we have seen with covid—more resilient.

These new sites will enable further progression and career opportunities due to larger teams being able to come together, meaning staff can more easily move between business lines and react to operational requirements, with more support in these larger cohorts. The support we are offering to our teams—to our people—absolutely includes regular one-to-ones with line managers about the impacts and confidential advice and support through the employee assistance programme, as well as CV and job application support if needed.

The DWP is absolutely committed to continuing to deliver for our customers, families and the economy. We need to continue to work positively with our teams to modernise and transform the way we deliver our service. As the hon. Gentleman says, that builds on the approach that was announced back in 2017. I am always struck by, and thankful for, just how positive and willing our DWP teams are to embrace the new changes and the challenges that we face in such a large operational Department. We believe that that means that we will drive better experiences for claimants and employees alike by building increased resilience in modernised and, crucially, higher quality sites, which will also reduce fraud and error.

These actions will generate savings for the taxpayer, which is the right and responsible approach that the Government must adopt, considering the fiscal position that we face. Given the recent increase in the cost of living, driven by global demand shock, the impact post covid and Russia’s unacceptable invasion of Ukraine, we are always looking for opportunities across Government to make taxpayers’ money go further. In reality, for the DWP, that means taking the decision to exit oversized, poor-quality estates when opportunities or—as in this case—lease breaks arise, making our public services more efficient and space-saving where we can.

[Chris Stephens]

I join the Minister in praising the supreme efforts of Department for Work and Pensions staff over the past couple of years, but why should those who will find it difficult to travel 20-odd miles to another site because of transport issues or disabilities face the prospect of losing their job? That seems to go against everything the Government claim to want for disabled customers, for example.

[Mims Davies]

I am trying to give some context and to reiterate to the hon. Gentleman that the DWP is the biggest public service Department. The current issue is that we occupy 20% of the civil service estate. It is right that we seek to reduce our footprint while committing to retain what makes us great—I absolutely agree with him about that—in our national presence, which means that we can deliver locally for our customers. I think that hon. Members will find it helpful if I provide some numbers to illustrate the point and, I hope, answer some of the hon. Gentleman’s questions.

The DWP currently operates from more than 920 buildings. In March 2022, it employed just over 92,000 people, but based on recent estimates, our buildings have the capacity for more than 158,000 people. More than 60% of our buildings are 30 years old or more; 3.3% of them currently meet the top two energy performance certificate ratings. The Department is committed to occupying only A and B-rated buildings by 2030. To answer one of the hon. Gentleman’s questions, we will be investing in the quality of the remaining estate, making sure that our buildings are the right places for our people to work. I believe that that will please him and those he represents.

The modification to a better estate will generate significant gross savings: it is estimated that £3.5 billion will be saved over a 30-year period, with ongoing annual savings of £80 million to £90 million realised from 2028-29, supporting the delivery of efficiency savings across Government. Importantly, we are bringing in a better quality of workspace for our employees, as the hon. Gentleman and many of our workers have requested. It is important to stress that the estates-driven rationalisation programme is ambitious in terms of how we reshape the DWP and how the Department works. I recognise the impacts on people, but it supports the ongoing modernisation and transformation that we also need to provide for our people to create career progression.

These changes will also support those Government priorities of fewer and better-quality buildings, investment in the condition of buildings, the future sustainability of the estate and, above all, our commitments to net zero. It is also about ensuring, vitally, that the Department maintains a footprint in Scotland and Wales and shows a firm and vital commitment to our precious Union. [Interruption.] You have to let me have that one. We are supporting our places for growth programme by committing to roles outside of London. It also supports levelling up. We are committed to retaining a presence in some of the most deprived areas throughout the nation and regions and creating career opportunity for our people.

[Chris Stephens]

It is good to see the Department for Work and Pensions preparing itself for an independent Scotland, but that is not the point I want to make. The point I want to make to the Minister is on areas of economic deprivation. Some of these offices will be closing in areas of economic deprivation—I am thinking of Springburn in Glasgow, for example, and I have raised the concerns that the businesses have—which seems to go against the levelling-up agenda. How would the Minister square her argument with the fact that offices in areas of high economic deprivation are closing?

[Mims Davies]

I understand the hon. Gentleman’s point, and I will go on to say how we are managing this and the opportunities that hybrid working affords us and our staff and how it supports caring and other responsibilities that people may have. I also draw back to the point of the nearly 200 new jobcentres—we are also heading towards 200 new youth hubs—that the DWP has invested in and brought forward as part of our plan for jobs. We are looking at a small part of a very large moving picture of a very large operational Department. For those affected, of course, this situation is concerning. The Department intends to make progress and during this pending review period, we have to set the foundation of the modernisation and transformation I have described.

Let me take the hon. Gentleman through the situation in Springburn in Glasgow, where 138 people are moving to Atlantic Quay. As part of the first tranche of conversations, all of the one-to-ones have been completed. I reassure him that only one of those 138 people is currently at risk. If people continue to live in the area, they will continue to spend in the area, especially through hybrid working.

On the question of fixed-term appointments, 8,800 permanent positions have been confirmed, with more offers. We have had to safeguard the opportunities for permanent staff, with 500 more offers—I do not know the exact number; it is around that number but it is a moving picture. I am trying to give the House an idea. We are continuing to engage with the attrition we have with an older workforce and with people looking to progress and stay, but we are also trying to make sure that those who have come in and given their all to the Department get the opportunity to stay with us.

To respond to the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), I will take him through the issues in Northern Ireland. The areas are operated, as he will know, through the Department for Communities, and the sites affected are GB-only. Homeworking was a covid business-related opportunity measure. Hybrid working is absolutely there. It is not our preferred operating model for the DWP—our people need to be face-to-face with our claimants, and that is very important—but we have opportunities in terms of GB for outreach and help through the flexible support fund and partnerships within our local communities, and that is something I encourage. The DWP is not only in jobcentres; it is working in youth hubs, it is partnership working and it is supporting communities in a completely different way—not everyone will come and meet us in a jobcentre.

The recent additional JCP closures mentioned by the hon. Member for Glasgow South West are not related to the wider network design. However, the Department is taking opportunities over the coming years, as I have said, to improve incrementally our jobcentre network and the quality of the buildings both for colleagues and for customers. For example, we should get those jobcentres into town centres and on bus routes. We should use the opportunity to take forward some of those new temporary jobcentres, which offer better quality buildings and, above all, a better quality working experience.

Let me turn now to hybrid working. The Department has introduced hybrid working, where colleagues are expected to spend 40% of their time in the office. It is anticipated that this will help those colleagues who may need to travel a little further to get to their new sites. Relocating individual teams into current roles or into existing smaller offices does not fit. What we do not want to do is create more smaller offices. We are trying to create hubs of 300 to 500 plus people. As I have said, those hubs work well in terms of people being able to pivot into the operational needs.

[Chris Stephens]

That was a helpful response to my questions on hybrid working. Does that suggest that all redundancies can be completely avoided if there were an offer of either hybrid or home working for staff? Is that the Department’s intention?

[Mims Davies]

Let me take the hon. Gentleman back to the point that I just made with regard to Glasgow Springburn. A total of 138 people are moving to Atlantic Quay. In terms of the one-to-ones, only one person is at risk at this point. This is, of course, an ongoing process of conversations around the redeployment, retraining and retaining of staff. We have an ageing workforce. We need to future-proof things and look after people and bring them forward. As I have said, this is only one moving part of what we are doing with our 92,000 people.

Drawing on that, the DWP is taking advantage of shifts in post-covid expectations around customer service delivery—not at the expense of face-to-face work—making use of the opportunity of estate lease breaks in 2023 to enable the Department to achieve its future service delivery aspirations. I want to reassure hon. Members that our people are at the heart of this transformation and that their needs will not be overlooked. The transformation is being delivered in two tranches over the next 18 months. Where possible, if an alternative strategic site has been identified, subject to colleagues’ ability to move to that new site, they will transfer, in their current role, to that new site. Where no consolidation site is available, all efforts—I reiterate the words “all efforts”—will focus on retaining and redeploying colleagues.

I have consistently reassured hon. Members, whose constituencies are affected, that the driver for this programme is not a reduction in our headcount. Where possible, colleagues in offices that are due to close are being offered opportunities to be redeployed, or retrained so that they can undertake a new role in the DWP, or be offered opportunities with other Government Departments. We are currently working with 15 other Government Departments, which are madly keen on having those people with DWP operational experience join them. Absolutely, we note that recent announcements about the future of the civil service may have caused additional concern. The DWP will consider its response to the challenge and will come forward with its proposals in due course.

[Chris Stephens]

The Minister has been extremely generous in taking my interventions. She outlined the discussions that she has had with other Government Departments, which is very welcome. Can she outline the discussions that she is having with the trade unions within the DWP, because, as yet, that is not something that she has mentioned in her reply?

[Mims Davies]

The hon. Gentleman keeps interrupting me. I can assure him that I will get to that in good time. Let me just follow through on this and then I will reply to his question.

Let me return to how we will support those who may be affected by our estate changes. Again, our focus continues to be on the best quality of estate, alongside retaining colleagues and supporting them. We are absolutely determined to continue to follow up on the conversations that we are having with individuals. Around 5,800 individual conversations with colleagues took place in 29 of the 43 affected sites. Pleasingly, following those conversations, more than 80% of colleagues have confirmed that they can move to a new site.

On trade union engagement, consultation is ongoing with the trade unions. Meetings are scheduled for twice a week, and they ensure that appropriate time is dedicated to discussions with the unions about their members’ concerns. In the period from 6 January to date, we have spent more than 65 hours in discussions with the unions, and we are fully committed to continuing that as we deliver the programme’s outcomes. Officials have also arranged a number of deep-dive sessions in consultation with the unions, including one with MyCSP on the civil service compensation scheme. I hope that that allays the hon. Gentleman’s fears about our conversations, which are ongoing, important conversations. I do not want this transformational change to impact our operations and, above all, the morale of our staff.

A clear measure of the success of the DWP’s updated hybrid working is that we have more flexible and inclusive workplaces that are capable of adapting to the needs of employees—those with health conditions, for example—and our customers. That has been welcomed by much of our workforce. In return, as I mentioned, the Department has been able to retain more people by enabling them to commit to moving with their role to an alternative, larger site. At those sites, they will get more training, learning and progression.

On 11 May, the Department started the engagement of redeployment activity for about 1,000 colleagues in the first tranche who were impacted by the closure of their site. The process has already successfully matched more than 100 colleagues with new roles, and it continues to happen on a weekly basis. As a responsible employer, the Department has had to explore all options, including voluntary redundancy. That just might be an option for some, depending again on personal circumstances and on the outcome of our redeployment activity. However, voluntary redundancy is the absolute last resort, and it is boring, but I will continue to say that all our efforts are to retain, retrain and redeploy both within the DWP and in all other Government Departments. We will continue to do that until all avenues have been exhausted. Importantly, the scheme does allow our colleagues to request a quotation to allow them to consider what it might mean for them if an offer is made. No offers will be made until September. Every effort throughout this period is about supporting colleagues with redeployment.

Colleagues will be delighted to hear that I will conclude. Reducing the back-of-house estate’s footprint will deliver value for money for the taxpayer, with significant gross savings of £3.5 billion over a 30-year period. We will deliver better quality estates and better quality working experience and progression opportunities. I hope to have reassured the hon. Gentleman and the House that we at the DWP are doing everything we can to redeploy and support DWP colleagues who are impacted by the modernisation and that they will continue to be fully supported throughout the process.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Mims Davies Excerpts

Monday 6th June 2022 Commons Chamber

[Alexander Stafford (Rother Valley) (Con)]

7. What steps she is taking to tackle unemployment in Rother Valley constituency.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies)]

Is that me? I am sorry, Mr Speaker, it has been a long weekend. [Interruption.] The jubilee, Mr Speaker, that is exactly why.

The Government want everyone—whoever they are and wherever they live—to be able to find a job, progress in work and thrive in the labour market. Through Restart and the Way to Work scheme, we are working closely with employers to help claimants into jobs. I am delighted to hear that my hon. Friend recently worked in partnership with our Jobcentre Plus and local employers to bring two job fairs to his constituents of the Rother Valley.

[Alexander Stafford]

I congratulate the Minister and the whole Government on the success of the Way to Work campaign, which is getting people into jobs up and down our country. The surest way out of this cost of living crisis is getting people into jobs. As my hon. Friend mentioned, I have held several job fairs in my constituency to help people get back into work. As the Way to Work campaign enters its final weeks, will she say what is available for those people who are not yet in work in Rother Valley?

[Mims Davies]

Through the Way to Work campaign, we will continue to bring employers and claimants together in our jobcentres, and we know that that is what changes lives and fills vacancies faster. In the local jobcentre in Rother Valley, we are offering sector-based work academy programme swaps in those priority vacancy sectors, such as health and social care, warehousing, construction and security to support people to get quickly into the labour market.

[Laura Trott (Sevenoaks) (Con)]

8. What steps she plans to take to support young people into work following the closure of the Kickstart scheme.

[Caroline Ansell (Eastbourne) (Con)]

21. What steps she plans to take to support young people into work following the closure of the Kickstart scheme.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies)]

Following the success of Kickstart, which has seen over 162,600 young people start their new roles, the DWP youth offer will continue to support our young people. I have observed at first hand how our new youth hubs and our extended Jobcentre Plus network have helped to move young people into those local opportunities more quickly. That includes recent visits to Eastbourne’s Hospitality Rocks and the Wolverhampton College’s electric vehicle and green technologies centre.

[Laura Trott]

In Sevenoaks and Swanley, the Kickstart scheme was welcomed with open arms. It is used by many brilliant local employees, including Go-Coach and the Mount Vineyard in Shoreham. Will my hon. Friend ensure that the Way to Work scheme focuses particularly on helping younger people in this way, and on helping specific sectors that are struggling to recruit, such as social care?

[Mims Davies]

My hon. Friend is right. The scheme has transformed how we recruit everybody, including our young people. Our DWP employment advisers are working closely with employers to meet that local demand, including for HGV drivers and care workers. Way to Work has offered a unique opportunity to ramp up that activity, expand the approach, and maximise quicker employment into new sectors, with Kickstart leading the way.

[Jane Stevenson]

Last month, I had the great pleasure of hosting an apprenticeship showcase on behalf of the aerospace and defence industry in Parliament. I met a constituent, Tianna, who is currently an apprentice at Collins Aerospace in my constituency. Tianna got the opportunity to showcase her enthusiasm and her skills to Collins through the Kickstart scheme. Can the Minister reassure me that other young people in Wolverhampton will have equal opportunity to showcase their own talents and ambitions in the future?

[Mims Davies]

I can reassure my hon. Friend on that. In Wolverhampton, our jobcentres host an employers’ zone, which allows local businesses with vacancies and key training providers to meet claimants and enable those swaps and job-matching sessions. In the new Wolverhampton youth hub located in The Way, the youth zone directly supports young people furthest away from the labour market to find training and employment and, currently, exciting opportunities in the summer’s Commonwealth games, too.

[Caroline Ansell]

I thank my hon. Friend for her visit to Eastbourne and the great energy and commitment she has shown to raising local aspiration. The kickstart scheme has been a huge success locally. Now hundreds of young people are in employment and building their careers—notably in Sussex NHS, where there are hundreds of new entrants. We are still working hard in hospitality and care, other sectors where there are opportunities as yet unfilled. What work is there coming down the line to connect young people with some of those opportunities, including in the digital and creative sector, where it is also important for us to build?

[Mims Davies]

My hon. Friend rightly highlights the success of the kickstart scheme. I know she has had personal involvement in supporting young people in her constituency. Building on that success is an important question. The Way to Work initiative is building on those key links with local employers, such as the Sussex NHS, that offer good-quality opportunities for young people. Meanwhile, our work coaches continue to support jobseekers of all ages in accessing those vacancies and opportunities that she mentions in all those in-demand sectors.

[Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)]

The kickstart scheme was supposed to generate 600,000 placements. In reality, it generated around 235,000, and of those 80,000 were unfilled at the time that it closed. Does the Minister really think we should describe that as a success? Would not most people be asking what went wrong?

[Mims Davies]

I will happily write to the hon. Gentleman with the correct numbers on this. Some 162,600 lives have been transformed at the most challenging time, with well over 200,000 vacancies created by employers who would never have looked at this way of recruiting and bringing young people into the labour market before. It is clear that many employers thought they were doing a favour by getting a young person in for six months. The scheme has transformed recruitment, young lives and opportunities, and employers have found that they are the ones who have had that favour done for them.

[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

11. What assessment she has made of the adequacy of benefits rates for people with disabilities.

--- Later in debate ---

[Grahame Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

17. If she will publish the individual site assessment on the closure of her Department's office in Seaham.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies)]

An overarching equality assessment has been completed, which considers the impact on all DWP colleagues. This has been made available for the House in the Library, and I am also arranging for the site-specific equality assessment for Seaham to be shared with the hon. Member.

[Grahame Morris]

I thank the Minister for that response, but previously when I have raised the issue of the Seaham site, I have been assured or reassured that DWP employees at that office would be relocated to other offices within the region. Is she aware that the private bus operator Go North East is proposing cuts and changes to 80 regional bus services, many affecting my area? Does that not show that the DWP planning assumptions are rather precarious? Many of the DWP closures, including the one in Seaham, are in areas of economic deprivation that can ill afford to lose good-quality public sector jobs.

[Mims Davies]

This network design change is to reshape how the Department works, resulting in a smaller, greener and better-quality estate for our colleagues. Many of these buildings across the land offer back-of-house functions, and they are just not good-quality buildings for our colleagues. I absolutely understand the point. Where colleagues are being offered new opportunities to go to the Wear View House site in Sunderland, which is approximately 7.5 miles away, there will be individual one-to-one conversations with them about what is right for them and how they can stay with DWP and continue in a role that works for them.

[Matthew Pennycook (Greenwich and Woolwich) (Lab)]

18. What assessment she has made of future trends in the level of child poverty.

Universal Credit and Jobseeker’s Allowance (Work Search and Work Availability Requirements @0017 Limitations (Amendment) Regulations 2022

Mims Davies Excerpts

Wednesday 20th April 2022 General Committees

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Elliott, and to have the opportunity to discuss the regulations in detail.

The regulations are part of an innovative intervention that we have at the Department for Work and Pensions: the Way to Work campaign. Let me explain why they were introduced. They are important to the Government’s ambition to build back better and move more people into work. The hon. Member for Wirral South raises concern about the urgency of those interventions. As the UK Employment Minister for the last three years, I have met employers who are desperately keen to fill vacancies with the talent that they have down the road. I think it is right that we step up and deliver. As regards our engagement with the SSAC, we continue to work and engage with it.

This has been an incredibly challenging year for everyone, especially those whose career or sector has been specifically impacted by the pandemic. We at DWP have been conscious of the damaging effect of being out of the labour market for a prolonged period of time. That is exactly why we introduced the Way to Work campaign. It is a specific drive to help 500,000 people into new jobs by the summer. The Government know how to introduce labour market interventions that really work. I am incredibly proud of the plan for jobs and the other interventions. Kickstart has offered us the opportunity to build on the success of job matching, disrupting the way people are recruited and making sure that it is quicker and much easier for people to get into work.

[Alison McGovern]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mims Davies]

I will make some progress. We at the DWP have monitored the labour market incredibly closely throughout the pandemic and put in that package of interventions through the plan for jobs to protect livelihoods and, above all, boost employment. The labour market context, which we cannot take for granted, absolutely illustrates the impact of the positive measures that we have put in place. It created a staggeringly positive effect.

In fact, unemployment levels are at 3.8%, and—despite the pandemic—they have not been lower since 1974, which was, it pleases me to say, before I was born, just about. The combination of the end of plan B covid measures and almost 1.3 million vacancies meant the scope that jobcentres had at the same time to return to full face-to-face activity presented us a unique opportunity to address the shortages and critical vacancies in particular sectors and help the labour market to grow faster. People who may have been waiting for their chance before the pandemic would have faced another two years of being held back had we not acted. To address that, we developed the Way to Work campaign, including the key policy objective secured by the regulations, working across Government ahead of the Prime Minister’s announcement on 26 January. The DWP has used the strength of the jobs market—I repeat, there are 1.3 million vacancies—to build on kickstart. It has meant we can work directly in our open jobcentres with employers to get claimants into those vacancies quicker, as well as strengthening our core support for jobseekers so that they can progress sooner.

Two things have happened in the labour market during the pandemic: people have wanted to transition and try new things, and in some sectors they have stepped up and helped in times of need. I make no apologies for any job, better job, career. The longer a person is out of the labour market, the harder it is for them to move forward, and it is absolutely right that we give people the chance to step back in, grow their confidence, and move on from there.

[Alison McGovern]

There are many surveys out there and a lot of information from businesses that say they do not support the Government’s approach for the reasons I mentioned. If the Minister can provide the Committee with some evidence that businesses support it, I invite her to do so. When the Minister mentions 500,000 people, is she talking about the 1 million people who have left the labour market? Unless we have an offer for those people, we will not get anywhere near dealing with the vacancies crisis.

[Mims Davies]

The hon. Lady makes an important point about the evidence and why employers want more people to apply for their jobs who normally would have ruled themselves out. On labour market figures day last Tuesday, I was at a job fair at one of our 190-plus new jobcentres, just outside Gatwick airport. They have 5,000 vacancies at the jobcentre there, and I spoke to representatives of Gatwick airport and local supply chains who were delighted to be meeting claimants who were looking to change and move into the sector, to help reinvigorate and bring back tourism and aviation. Those people had perhaps done different things before the pandemic, or were looking to progress and do something else. I can give the hon. Lady plenty of examples of employers, going beyond surveys. This is about real people—it is beyond statistics. It is about jobs, livelihoods, and real people progressing.

The right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington was wondering why this is suddenly an issue. According to my records, he has not been to his local jobcentre since 2017, so perhaps if he popped down to that jobcentre and spoke to the work coaches, he would see it in action.

[John McDonnell]

rose—

[Mims Davies]

Perhaps he has been recently; forgive me if I am incorrect.

[John McDonnell]

I do not think that is true—that is the first thing. The second is that I am in continuous conversations with the jobcentre, and occasionally will visit, because it is next to my home. The issue is whether there is any evidence of reluctance among workers to take those jobs. Is that what the measure is about? Is there some evidence of reluctance, of people not wanting the jobs that she has explained exist?

[Mims Davies]

We will have a look at our records about whether there has been an official visit, but according to what I have, there has been no visit in the past four years.

[John McDonnell]

I do not do official visits, but I continue to work—

[Mims Davies]

I understand, but there have been comments about people being shoved into jobs, not tailored support. If the right hon. Gentleman chatted to work coaches, he would see that the reality is that people are getting tailored support and understanding what is right for them. We have reinstated those crucial face-to-face appointments, the first commitment meetings where work coaches can build that crucial rapport with claimants and then build on it, delivering regular, intensive support for claimants at the beginning of their claim and helping them to move back into work more quickly.

Crucially, Way to Work is bringing employers and claimants together quicker, helping to optimise the recruitment process through job fairs, employer hubs, social media channels, the DWP’s Job Help website and our “Find a job” service. All those interventions have grown during the pandemic and post-pandemic to help people, and employers are offered a named, dedicated local employment adviser at their jobcentre to work with them to fill their local vacancies. If they are a national employer, they are also offered a dedicated national account manager.

I have met many of those people, who have been keenly helping people leaving prison, Afghan resettlers and others; they are very keen to extend all those opportunities more widely. We are also vastly extending our existing network of employer contacts, setting up work trials, for example, and using our existing sector-based work academies to give employers the opportunity to see what local recruits have to offer via the DWP. In fact, on my last visit to my local jobcentre in Haywards Heath, one gentleman was meeting an employer on the day and got offered a job, and he had not been in work for seven years. These measures are life changing, because people are having those conversations in our jobcentres.

[James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con)]

Like many of my colleagues in this room and beyond, I visit my constituency constantly. I am proud to represent a constituency in east Berkshire called Bracknell, where we have near full employment. My experience of talking to employers everywhere I go—in Guildford, in Bracknell, all across Surrey, Hampshire and Berkshire, in the south-east and beyond—is that people cannot get enough staff and that businesses are in danger of going under, not because there is no demand for their services and products but because they cannot get enough staff to do the work. The Minister mentioned earlier that there are 1.3 million job vacancies, so does she agree that the Government must do everything possible to get people back into work? The vacancies are there and our economy depends on it, and the initiative does exactly that.

[Mims Davies]

I thank my hon. Friend, because that is exactly what the initiative is about; that is our total intent.

The hon. Member for Glasgow South West mentioned the Select Committee session this morning. The regulations are absolutely about tailored support for the right opportunity down the road. They are meant to help people to become more self-reliant and to enjoy the improvements in their wellbeing from being in work and all that it has to offer. In doing that, claimants can take the next step of building a more secure future and being more prosperous and, of course, they are helping our economy to recover.

The effects of the regulations are that jobseekers with a strong work history and who are capable of work will be expected to search more widely for suitable jobs earlier in their claim.

[Alison McGovern]

rose—

[Mims Davies]

I think this point is important for people to understand, so let me just reiterate it. The effects of the regulations will be that jobseekers with a strong work history and who are capable of work will be expected to search more widely for suitable available jobs earlier in their claim because of the shortening of the permitted period. The permitted period is the time in which claimants can narrow their work search within their usual sector. I must add that this is not applicable to all claimants who make a new claim. These regulations reduce the permitted period from 13 weeks to four weeks. We believe that reducing the permitted period could aid claimants’ chances of finding work more quickly and seeing more options that are available to them sooner.

[Alison McGovern]

I thank the Minister for giving way; she is being very generous. There is clearly a disagreement about what the evidence may or may not show about the efficacy of the policy, so will the Minister be good enough to make public or put in the Library of the House of Commons the analysis that supports that?

[Mims Davies]

I will write to the hon. Lady with further details covering some of that, but I would like to reiterate something about the history of the permitted period. Perhaps this will help her. The permitted period was formulated as a policy as part of the Social Security Act 1989 and was originally set at 13 weeks, which was considered reasonable in the context of the labour market at that time. The end of the permitted period is not a deadline to move into work. It marks the point where a claimant needs to agree commitments that will help them to seize the record opportunities in the current labour market. Good work coaches tailor their ask of their claimants, listen to their needs and give them advice about how they can transition and take up more roles, by listening and engaging. This is not about putting people into jobs that are not right for them.

[Chris Stephens]

The Minister is being exceptionally generous in giving way. Will she confirm that the DWP’s position, as outlined in the answer to a recent written question, is that jobseekers are expected to commute up to three hours per shift or face being sanctioned?

[Mims Davies]

There is a fundamental misunderstanding on the Opposition Benches about what our work coaches do and how we are helping people to progress and move forward. The hon. Member for Wirral South made some comments earlier about jobcentres and our work coaches—

[Alison McGovern]

No.

[Mims Davies]

I can say that the feedback consistently is that they are a continually positive place to be. It is important that when people make comments—including about jobcentres wanting to sanction people more and being negative places to be—they do it from a position of understanding their strength.

At the heart of the debate is the perception that we are just trying to sanction people more. The reality is completely the opposite. We are trying to get people into work quicker.

[Chris Stephens]

The Minister has confirmed the answer to the written question and that a jobseeker is expected to commute up to three hours per shift. That shift could be on the national minimum wage. Will the Minister please confirm whether, as the DWP has told the Select Committee, it is considering having a warning system, sometimes referred to as a yellow card system, before progressing to a sanction?

[Mims Davies]

The hon. Gentleman needs to understand me when I say that work coaches will also agree to restrictions of the hours, type of work and location of work based on the tailored needs of the claimant. Of course, there is a travel to work requirement, which I think is what he is referring to, but I can reassure the Committee that all work preparation activities and all that we do to improve the claimants’ work prospects in undertaking training and work experience—everything that counts towards moving forward—is absolutely at the discretion of the work coach, understanding the claimant but making sure that discretionary easements are in place where needed for domestic emergencies, caring responsibilities and so on. Some of that is not fully defined in legislation; it is down to good quality, tailored work coaching.

I shall try to conclude, Ms Elliot. I would like quickly to cover the sanctions issue. I reassure all Members that the regulations are not a change in sanctions policy. That is not what we are trying to achieve with the amendments to the duration of the permitted period. We are not changing the reason why people might have a sanction applied, such as for refusing to take a job that has been offered, nor the sanction rates. Claimants will only ever be sanctioned if they fail to meet the requirements agreed in their claimant commitment by their work coach without providing good reason. If they have good cause, they will not be sanctioned. I reiterate that sanctions are at a record low.

[Dr Caroline Johnson (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

The Minister is making some very good points. We have talked about the number of vacancies available, and my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell talked about the pressure on businesses to find extra people. It makes sense that the Government wish to maximise the number of people in work and do not wish to support people on benefits when they are capable of work—that does not make sense for society. I understand the Opposition’s point, made by the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington, about highly skilled people and square pegs in round holes. Will the Minister confirm that if somebody takes a job temporarily on a lower salary, that does not mean they are not available to look for other work or that people cannot find a better job over time? In fact, having had a job in the meantime might make it easier to find work, because it is easier to find work from work than otherwise. The resilience and work ethic demonstrated by doing such a thing might help their job prospects in the future rather than hinder them.

[Mims Davies]

Absolutely. My hon. Friend makes a very good point. Many people have stepped into work in sectors that they would never have considered, because of the pandemic. They have done it because it is the right thing to help their community and their family or because of the impact on their sector. Through our plan for jobs, including the restart programme that supports people after nine months’ unemployment—previously it was after a year—we are helping people with their wellbeing, confidence and skills. The longer someone is out of work, the harder it is to progress. Once someone is in a job, it is much easier to get a better job and reach the next stage of their career.

In essence, I think that people are saying that the regulations are trying to get people to go into the wrong roles. It is all down to good-quality work coaching with our local jobcentres and teams opening up people’s mindsets and abilities, in the way that the pandemic has for some people, so that they try new sectors. That does not mean that they will leave the sector that they have not been able to get back into forever, but they can transition and use their skills in a way that perhaps had not occurred to them, and we are making sure that people understand that.

[John McDonnell]

rose—

[Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con)]

Keep going.

[Mims Davies]

I would like to conclude—

[John McDonnell]

Don’t follow that advice; the Minister wants constructive engagement.

[Mims Davies]

I think I have been very generous to the right hon. Gentleman, but I will hear him out just this once.

[John McDonnell]

I am grateful for that. This is about getting the policy right at some stage. If the Government are to retrospectively engage with the Social Security Advisory Committee, it might well be that some of these issues can be taken up and the policy honed as it goes to implementation.

The hon. Member for Sleaford and North Hykeham is right that often it is best to be in work to find another job, but I am worried that this policy seems to be based on an idea that people are reluctant to take alternative work in different sectors. That is why I asked for evidence of that. When the Minister writes to my hon. Friend the Member for Wirral South, I would be grateful if she included any evidence of such reluctance in the correspondence.

The issue is that once people are forced into work, which could be long hours on low pay, that makes it more difficult to get into other work, so when the consultation takes place with the SSAC, it is important to ensure opportunities for the individual to challenge some of the decisions, based on the reasonableness of getting back into a level of work or professional grade that they had before. [Interruption.] I apologise for the length of my intervention.

[Mims Davies]

I do not think I have ever spoken about the reluctance of our claimants to be tenacious and open-minded and to move forward. In fact, that is what the relationship that we build among work coaches, local employers and sector-based work academies, and our approach that we have developed through the plan for jobs, has really brought out. Given the transitions and opportunities and our 50-plus choices and 50-plus champions, I often remind people that the latter part of their careers, when they have great choices, can be the most fulfilling of their working lives. In fact, that is 25% of a working life. The hon. Member for Wirral South mentioned those who fall into economic inactivity, which is something we are focused on.

[Alison McGovern]

indicated dissent.

[Mims Davies]

I think the hon. Lady spoke about people leaving the labour market—that is the point I was making.

With regard to the regulations, it is important to mention the evaluation, which will help the Committee, and then I will conclude. We will reflect on the evidence and what the Way to Work campaign has brought forward. The evidence shows that, as we have discussed, how hard it is to secure a job is often based on how long it takes to return to the labour market. With Way to Work, we are giving new claimants more time with their work coach and making sure that we bring local employers into the jobcentres with sectors and opportunities that perhaps people would never have found otherwise. That will help more claimants move into work quicker, and we will be routinely reassessing the impact of the changes on universal credit claimants more generally.

It is important to reiterate that we know that the longer people are out of employment, the harder it is, so intensive support sooner from DWP is what this is about. It will mean that claimants who are expected to broaden their job search will take advantage of the additional vacancies out there. To be clear, we do not expect claimants to move into work that is not right for them. The Committee should be clear on that. Our work coaches are specifically trained to direct claimants to suitable opportunities, where they are appropriate and tailored to their personal needs and circumstances.

Given my comments, I trust the Committee understands both the need for the change in the regulations and why we felt it important to deliver at pace, as we heard from my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell. The change is designed to build on the success of our plan for jobs. I hope I have reassured the Committee about the measures. We are committed to seeing the jobs filled quickly for progression in every community. People can succeed by working with us at DWP to find their next career at any age or any stage.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Chair]

Does the Minister wish to respond?

[Mims Davies]

I think it has all been said.

Oral Answers to Questions

Mims Davies Excerpts

Monday 21st March 2022 Commons Chamber

[Sir David Evennett (Bexleyheath and Crayford) (Con)]

13. What steps she is taking with Cabinet colleagues to support people to upskill and change career paths.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies)]

We have introduced Department for Work and Pensions Train and Progress to address our claimants’ skills needs. Working across Government, we have been able to extend the length of time during which universal credit claimants can undertake full-time training, including skills boot camps in England, to up to 16 weeks. I am also pleased about the role that kickstart has played in helping more than 152,000 young people to gain vital new skills and work experience to help them in their future careers.

[Stephen Metcalfe]

Ensuring that people have relevant skills is essential to helping them stay in work throughout their working lives. What opportunities are available to my constituents through jobcentres to access training to ensure they can apply for a wider range of opportunities in south Essex?

[Mims Davies]

I thank my hon. Friend for the chance to highlight our jobcentre teams in Basildon and east Thurrock, who are working closely with partners to provide a wide range of support for local jobseekers, including with South Essex College, which has delivered a sector-based work academy programme—SWAP—for candidates to help them prepare to go into new roles in healthcare, logistics and administrative jobs with Essex Police.

[Sir David Evennett]

I welcome the work being done by the Government in this important area, which is appreciated in my constituency. Will my hon. Friend update the House on the SWAP and how it is helping people upskill and change careers?

[Mims Davies]

This is a very successful programme, helping jobseekers, including in my right hon. Friend’s constituency, get an opportunity to develop the key new skills that employers are looking for, including through training and work experience, and a guaranteed job interview in that new sector. I am delighted to be able to say that we have surpassed our delivery goal, with over 146,000 SWAPs having been started since April 2020.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

We know we are at record levels of in-work poverty, with more than 8 million people in that category, so why are three out of four people who were in low-paid work in 2010 still in low-paid work now?

[Mims Davies]

The hon. Lady makes an important point about progressing; there is a focus on that at DWP and I hope the Select Committee she serves on will have a look at it, because we have just mentioned two areas where this is working for people and filling vacancies that need to be filled. We will be filling half a million new jobs by the summer through our Way to Work campaign; that will help people progress, and I hope the hon. Lady will welcome it.

[Mr Speaker]

I call shadow Minister Alison McGovern.

[Alison McGovern (Wirral South) (Lab)]

The Minister has just accepted the point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Oldham East and Saddleworth (Debbie Abrahams) that far too many people in this country are stuck in low-paid work. Last month the Secretary of State told me that she was the block to the Government’s response to the report on in-work progression, and last week the Minister told me it would be coming soon. It looks like nothing is happening, so may I give the Minister one last chance: when will the Government respond to the report they commissioned last year on in-work progression?

[Mims Davies]

I thank the hon. Lady for giving me one last chance at the Dispatch Box—that sounded rather ominous. In-work progression is absolutely vital; from April we will, as was just mentioned, have more work coaches supporting people who have got stuck, as some people have—there might be things going on in their lives which mean they need more skills or confidence. The Secretary of State and I are working on this response and will be bringing it forward very shortly.

[Stuart C. McDonald (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East) (SNP)]

6. Whether she has had discussions with the Chancellor of the Exchequer ahead of the spring statement on tackling the rise in the cost of living.

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[Anna Firth (Southend West) (Con)]

21. What steps she is taking to help disabled people into work.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies)]

We are committed to seeing 1 million more disabled people in work by 2027. A wide range of initiatives are available to support disabled people to stay in work or move into work, including contracted employment support, Access to Work, Disability Confident, and initiatives in partnership with the health system.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes]

I am sure the Minister would agree that an important part of preventing the disability employment gap from widening further is the provision of assistive technology for disabled claimants who are applying for jobs. Can the Minister advise the House on whether every jobcentre is equipped with assistive technology for disabled claimants and whether that is supported by appropriate staff training—and if not, why not?

[Mims Davies]

We have 900 disability employment advisers who individually work with claimants to help them to progress. One of the most positive outcomes of the kickstart scheme has been the number of people with neurodiversity or disabilities getting a first start into work because they worked directly with their work coaches to understand what support they needed to get into work. There is also, of course, the Access to Work programme.

[Marion Fellows]

This Thursday, the all-party parliamentary group for multiple sclerosis is launching a report on the support that people with MS receive to get into and remain in employment, and to leave employment. According to the report, people with MS are not receiving enough support from their employers to remain in work. On average, 80% of people with a diagnosis have to retire within 15 years of receiving that bad news. Will the Department commit to improving Access to Work by reducing waiting times, ending the payment cap altogether, and helping employees to better support their disabled employees to thrive and remain in work?

[Mims Davies]

I thank the hon. Lady for raising a really important point about employers being able to understand and work with their employees as their health needs change. Employers stepping forward to do more to retain quality staff is absolutely right. She will be pleased to know that we are adapting Access to Work to support hybrid working. We have introduced a new flexible offer, and we are also piloting an adjustment passport to help to smooth transitions into employment. Perhaps we need to look at that in terms of those leaving or having to change their employment. I am sure the Minister for disabled people, the Minister of State, Department for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Norwich North (Chloe Smith), who is unwell today, will be keen to hear from the hon. Lady.

[Anna Firth]

Many people who live with disabilities struggle to enter the workplace as they often lack the soft skills and the confidence needed. In my constituency of Southend West, we have a wonderful charity called the Phabulous Café, which provides a training centre for young people with disabilities, learning difficulties and mental health issues to help them gain those essential soft skills. What support do the Government give such charities to help people with disabilities live their lives to the full?

[Mims Davies]

The Phabulous Café is exactly what its name says. I welcome my hon. Friend to her place, as this is my first time responding to her. Support for small charities exists in the form of the work with the Regional Stakeholder Network, which provides charities with a platform to influence policies that directly impact the lives of disabled people. Through the RSN, support is provided for small charities by helping them to navigate the often difficult process of accessing public sector grants and contracts. I am keen to see the Phabulous Café in action soon.

[Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall) (Lab/Co-op)]

11. What steps she is taking to help people with childcare costs to move from universal credit into work.

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[John Penrose (Weston-super-Mare) (Con)]

14. If she will take steps with the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy to implement the recommendations of the Taylor review of modern working practices, published in July 2017.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies)]

The Government have made significant progress in implementing those recommendations, improving the working conditions for agency workers and more harshly penalising employers who treat their workers badly. I will continue to work with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy to make sure that we fulfil our commitment to ensuring that everyone, no matter what their background, has the opportunity to start, stay and progress in work.

[John Penrose]

Ministers from both Departments originally promised to implement the full set of the Taylor review recommendations back in 2018, but four years later, we still have gaps and missing dates for legislation. The conditions faced by many lower-skilled and insecure workers create huge barriers to opportunity, career progression and social mobility. Is it not past time for us to smash these glass ceilings as a key part of levelling up?

[Mims Davies]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising this matter, and I am sure that BEIS Ministers will have heard him loudly as well. It is absolutely right that we have boosted the secondary legislation, which boosts the rights of workers by quadrupling the available aggravated breach penalty used in employment tribunals, but it is right too that he and I work with my colleagues to make sure that employers—and the experience at work—are better, because they need to be.

[Dr Luke Evans (Bosworth) (Con)]

15. What steps she is taking to tackle identity fraud and abuse of the benefits system.

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[Alexander Stafford (Rother Valley) (Con)]

17. What steps she is taking to increase the number of people in work in Rother Valley constituency.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies)]

I thank my hon. Friend for the opportunity to talk about our really positive Way to Work campaign bringing jobseekers and employers together in our jobcentres and filling vacancies much more quickly. In South Yorkshire, employers in the jobcentre are interviewing candidates, who are often being offered new roles the very same day. I know that my hon. Friend had a very successful jobs fair on Friday.

[Alexander Stafford]

The most recent claimant count in Rother Valley shows that about 2,000 people are looking for work. That is why, as the Minister says, I hosted the first ever Rother Valley jobs fair, which was attended by hundreds of jobseekers and by 30 organisations advertising several thousand good jobs—and they were very local jobs. Will my hon. Friend tell me how her Way to Work campaign will help my constituents to find jobs? Will she talk about the tools she is using to ensure that people are ready to work and can start jobs as quickly as possible?

[Mims Davies]

Across Rotherham, our jobcentre teams are really helping to employ people and get those vacancies filled. I have been in jobcentres where people have quite often been unemployed for a very long time; the experience of being offered a job, there and then, changes their lives. We are working locally and nationally with employers on local recruitment days, jobs fairs and sector-based work academies, all as part of the commitment to get half a million claimants into work by the end of June.

[Richard Burgon (Leeds East) (Lab)]

18. What steps her Department is taking to support people with the increase in the cost of living.

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[Sally-Ann Hart (Hastings and Rye) (Con)]

T4. The jobs of the future, especially in the green industries, require technical skills, and investing in people to improve their technical skills is vital to the Government’s levelling-up agenda, which is particularly important in beautiful Hastings and Rye. What steps is my hon. Friend taking to increase the technical skills levels of people who are already in work?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Mims Davies)]

I thank my hon. Friend for that question, which I think will interest the hon. Member for Wirral South (Alison McGovern) as well. From April this year, our new DWP in-work progression offer will support working universal credit claimants to progress and increase their earnings. It will include better support to upskill and retrain, and low-paid workers are eligible for training funded by the Department for Education via skills boot camps in digital engineering and the green sectors.

[Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab)]

T5. It is welcome that the Government have proposed reforms to the Child Maintenance Service following the recent National Audit Office report highlighting the failures in that organisation. Will the reforms address the issues with self-employed fee-paying parents hiding their income, as well as the concerns around previously unco-operative parents being moved off collect and pay after minimal evidence of compliance?

[Rob Roberts (Delyn) (Ind)]

T6. I would like to thank our local DWP officials and work coaches for their efforts to help more people in Delyn into work in the past few months. Some parts of my constituency remain among the most deprived in Wales. Does the Minister agree that improved transport infrastructure is key to ensuring that people can get to jobs? I appreciate that she is not a Minister in the Department for Transport, but will she in principle support my campaign to have a train station reinstated to serve Holywell and Greenfield, to help people to access more jobs and level up their communities?

[Mims Davies]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

I think the Minister might struggle to answer that question, but if she wants to try, please do so.

[Mims Davies]

I am going to try, Mr Speaker.

That may be a devolved issue, but I would point out that many employers in Wales have been putting on transportation to bring workers in. That has been happening particularly in Ynys Môn—in Anglesey—to support production there. Working with the jobcentre to put on suitable transport makes a difference in getting people into work too.

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)]

T7. Pensions and benefits have been uprated by 3.1%, whereas inflation is set to be 6.2%, or 8% if The Daily Telegraph has got it right. That means that pensioners and benefits recipients will not be able to pay for the most basic essentials. How can the Minister look people in the eye when the Government have inflicted yet another real-terms cut?

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

T8. Ministers will be aware that a number of organisations, such as those in in care services, agriculture and related industries, and hospitality, are experiencing difficulties in finding enough workers. What can Ministers do to bring those who are looking for work together with those kinds of industries?

[Mims Davies]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising this issue. There are currently over 1.2 million vacancies. On jobs and vacancies, Opposition Members do not appear to understand that people are better off in work than they are on benefits. Let us get to the point: there are key sectors in this country that need people. To tackle this challenge, we at the Department for Work and Pensions are stepping up, with Way to Work bringing people into our jobcentres and helping claimants to change their lives.

[Cat Smith (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Lab)]

While the Secretary of State was enjoying our warm Lancashire hospitality in Blackpool this weekend, just a few miles up the coast in Fleetwood, my constituent Patricia was emailing me as her MP. She is a disabled pensioner and says:

“The state pension does not keep up with rises in cost of living or inflation…Fuel costs are crippling, as I don’t move and feel the cold but we have to be careful with the heating. I need carers but their costs rise faster than the annual increase.”

What does the Secretary of State have to say to my constituent?

[Dehenna Davison (Bishop Auckland) (Con)]

Following last week’s announcement of changes to the DWP estate, 55 of my constituents are directly affected by the closure of the Bishop Auckland back-office function. Joanne Illingworth, who has worked for the DWP for 36 years, has written to me because she is really concerned that moving her job would not be compatible with balancing her work life and caring responsibilities. To give Joanne and others reassurance, can the Minister confirm that individuals will be given specifically tailored support to find a new role that is suitable for them in their current circumstances, and, if not, that, as an absolute last resort, exit packages will be made available?

[Mims Davies]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising this issue. I spoke to her about her constituents just before the weekend. It is absolutely right that our Department is committed to supporting customers, families, the economy, claimants and our staff. Some 65% of our buildings are of very poor quality; they are small and do not allow for opportunities for progression. Thirty-six years is a really decent innings. We will be working directly, one to one, with our staff, using hybrid working practices to retain as many people as we can and give them a better quality working experience.

[Barbara Keeley (Worsley and Eccles South) (Lab)]

For many people with disabilities, switching off essential equipment to reduce energy costs is not an option. Extra power is needed to run equipment on which they absolutely rely—to power ventilators, to charge electric wheelchairs or to run a stairlift. When I asked the Prime Minister about this recently, he said that the Government would be looking at ways to abate these costs, so what are the Government doing to support people with disabilities who now face unmanageable energy bills?

[Jacob Young (Redcar) (Con)]

Last week was a nervous moment as we read the news that Stockton’s DWP offices are closing and that 380 staff would be relocated. It is now being reported that those jobs could simply be moved down the road to Middlesbrough. Will the Minister assure me that the Department is looking to keep as many of those jobs as possible in Teesside and that it is working with local leaders to see if there is any suitable usable space in the area so that Teesside does not lose any of those jobs?

[Mims Davies]

That gives me a chance to provide clarification for my hon. Friend, as it is important for his constituents and others who may be affected. This move is about turning opportunities into larger hubs, with more progression, and a chance for better career opportunities. With people working about two days a week in the new vicinity, which may be around 10 miles away, they will have opportunities to stay local and spend local; it will be hybrid working and able to support people’s needs in terms of caring and other responsibilities, such as doing the school run, which they might not be able to do now. I ask his constituents to lean into the engagement and I hope that they will find that the next stage is promising for them.

[Mr Speaker]

The Minister should be answering the questions through the Chair.

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[Mims Davies]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising that issue. I will address this to you equally and fully, Mr Speaker. It is vital that we ensure that our staff our consulted and listened to. We have more than 920 buildings, which can house 168,000 people—we currently have 92,000 people. Some of them are poor-quality buildings, without progression opportunities, and we have not been able to embrace hybrid working. Let me remind the House that this is about back-office function and retaining staff, giving them a better quality of workplace and embracing hybrid working, and about people staying local when they can.

[Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab)]

As a result of my Food Insecurity Bill, the family resources survey now reports on food insecurity. The survey found that one of the key reasons, even pre-pandemic, that people could not afford to eat was that benefits were grossly inadequate. Does the Secretary of State think that the pitiful 3.1% increase in benefits, when inflation will peak at 8%, is going to make people more or less able to afford to eat?