(2 days, 4 hours ago)
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15:26 - The House divided: - Ayes: 87 / Noes: 335 - Question accordingly negatived.
Mr Speaker
I inform the House that I have selected amendment (a) tabled in the name of the Prime Minister. I call Ed Davey.
Ed Davey (Kingston and Surbiton) (LD)
I beg to move,
That this House recognises the remarkable contributions that the UK’s 5.7 million unpaid carers make to society and the huge financial challenges many face; notes with deep concern that tens of thousands of carers are unfairly punished for overpayments of Carer’s Allowance due to the £151-a-week earnings limit; believes that carers should not be forced to face the stress, humiliation and fear caused by demands for repayments of Carer’s Allowance; condemns the previous Government for failing to address this scandal; calls on the Government to write-off existing overpayments immediately, raise the Carer’s Allowance earnings limit and introduce a taper to end the unfair cliff edge; and further calls on the Government to conduct a comprehensive review of support for carers to help people juggle care and work.
It is a great honour to open the first full Liberal Democrat Opposition day in 15 years. I assure the House that we will not waste our precious debates on the sort of political game playing to which Opposition days often fall victim. Instead, we will use them to focus on the things that really matter to ordinary people, and to tell Ministers directly about the real problems that our constituents face.
That brings me to our first motion on unpaid carers, or family carers as I prefer to say. They are people looking after relatives, friends or neighbours, and they do a remarkable and important job. Looking after someone they love can be rewarding and full of love—whether they are a parent of a disabled child, a teenager looking after a terminally ill parent or a close relative of an elderly family member—but it is far from glamorous. Caring for a family member can be relentless and exhausting.
As the House knows, I have been a carer for much of my life but, more importantly, I have also had the great privilege of meeting and hearing from thousands of carers in my constituency and across the United Kingdom. I have some understanding of the challenges that carers face every single day: the worries, the exhaustion, the lack of breaks and the financial difficulties, too. Britain’s carers deserve our support.
Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)
I hope that the right hon. Gentleman will take this as a friendly intervention, as he knows what I am going to say. He talks about family carers and mentioned teenagers who support loved ones, which is important, but does he agree that we should recognise the role of young carers? Having worked with them, I know that they can be as young as five years old and supporting a loved one or family member.
Ed Davey
The hon. Member is absolutely right. I include young carers; indeed, I am a member of the all-party parliamentary group on young carers and young adult carers, and I invite him to join us. It is chaired by a well-established Labour Member. Young carers are very much part of our thinking, but for some, who will not be young—
Mr Speaker
Order. May I say to the hon. Member for Reading West and Mid Berkshire (Olivia Bailey), please do not walk in front of Members when they are intervening? Please, can we think of others?
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I commend the right hon. Gentleman for his endeavours in the debate, which we support, and on his compassion for carers given his own experience. Someone who cares for their parents all day and then works a couple of hours in the evening is precluded from receiving carer’s allowance. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that those people, who do not get carer’s allowance because they happen to work a few hours, should qualify?
Ed Davey
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for that point. That should certainly be part of the review, but one or two other issues, which I will talk about, are critical to reform probably even before that.
At just £81.90 a week, carer’s allowance is the lowest benefit of its kind. For someone doing 35 hours of caring a week—the minimum period for eligibility—that is just £2.34 an hour. It is not just the low rate of the carer’s allowance that worries me but the fact that the eligibility rules are inflexible and very badly designed, chief among them being the earnings limit of £151 a week. Even for someone on minimum wage, that is just 13 hours and 20 minutes a week. The earning limit operates like a cliff edge. As soon as someone makes £151.01 a week, they lose the whole carer’s allowance—every penny of the £81.90. It acts as a significant barrier and a major disincentive to work. It means carers on low incomes cannot work a bit more to help make ends meet, so it is bad for them, bad for the person they are caring for, bad for their employers and bad for the economy.
But here is where things get worse. There are tens of thousands of carers who go slightly over the earnings limit, mostly without realising it. Maybe they pick up an extra shift, happen to get an end-of-year bonus, or understandably do not realise the way carer’s allowance operates in such a daft way. Even though the Department for Work and Pensions gets regular alerts from His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs when people go over the earnings limit, it has not been telling carers and it keeps paying carer’s allowance until one day, out of the blue, the carer gets hit with demands to repay those overpayments, which may have built up over months and years due to the DWP’s own inaction.
Back in July, I told the Prime Minister about one of my constituents, Andrea, who lives in Chessington. She is a full-time carer for her mum. Back in 2019, Andrea decided to go back to work part-time in a charity shop—mainly for her mental health, she told me. She informed the DWP at the time and it continued her payments. Five years later, it wrote to her and said that no, she now had to repay £4,600. Andrea says she feels “harassed, bullied and overwhelmed.” She now does just six hours’ unpaid work a month to avoid going over the earnings limit and getting into more debt. She says the whole thing makes her “want to give up work and give up caring.”
Mr Adnan Hussain (Blackburn) (Ind)
The right hon. Gentleman refers to mental health. Romi Taylor is a 16-year-old who cares for her mother, who has chronic obstructive pulmonary disease. Romi recently won an award at the BBC Radio Lancashire’s Make a Difference awards—you were there, Mr Speaker. Many carers find caring for a loved one to be a lonely place. This is a 16-year-old taking care of her mother and not having time with her friends. Does the right hon. Gentleman agree that carers need to be recognised, and that the support they require beyond benefits, including mental health support, should be—
Mr Speaker
Order. May I just say to my constituency neighbour that interventions are meant to be short? I have a list, so if you want to make a speech I am more than happy because these contributions do matter, but try not to make a speech through interventions. Don’t follow Mr Shannon—he will mislead you. [Laughter.]
Ed Davey
Thank you, Mr Speaker. The hon. Gentleman is of course right and I pay tribute to his constituent, who was lucky enough to be presented the award by Mr Speaker. He is right about the mental health of carers. NHS data shows that the mental health of carers is twice as poor as it is for the population at large because of the isolation, so that issue is absolutely a part of this debate.
Sir Julian Lewis
Before the right hon. Gentleman resumes his narrative—he speaks with huge authority on this subject—can he underline what he told the House before the previous intervention? This was a case where someone reported what they were doing, was wrongly told it was okay to proceed and was then hit with a bill for thousands of pounds retrospectively. Surely that is incompetence and maladministration. Is there not any way for that person to have recourse to justice?
Ed Davey
The right hon. Gentleman makes exactly the right point and as her MP I am pursuing that line of argument, but we need a change of culture and attitude at the DWP to be able to proceed with these cases on behalf of our constituents. She told me that the whole thing makes her want to give up caring and give up working. That is how affected she has been. Who is it helping, when carers feel like that?
I am sure that someone, somewhere in the DWP or the Treasury, thinks this sort of penny pinching saves the Government money, but they could not be more wrong. It is millions of carers like Andrea who save the Government money: £162 billion a year, according to Carers UK, through the vital work they do for free. When badly designed Government policies fail to support carers and instead push them over the edge, the real cost—an enormous cost—is to taxpayers and the economy.
There are so many stories like Andrea’s. Government figures suggest that more than 130,000 people have outstanding carer’s allowance debt, some going back years. According to the DWP’s own figures, last year alone there were 34,500 overpayments due to the earnings limit. We have heard how carers have even been threatened with prosecution. This is a terrible scandal: tens of thousands of carers becoming victims of a system that is supposed to be there to support them.
Although the stories we have heard in recent months have been truly shocking, they are not new. The Work and Pensions Committee launched an inquiry into this issue almost six years ago, back in 2018. The National Audit Office published its own report in 2019. The last Government should have acted then, but they did nothing. I raised it with the last Prime Minister. He did nothing. Conservative Ministers failed to tackle it for the entirety of the last Parliament. They just passed it on to the new Government, as yet another part of their legacy.
I raised the matter, therefore, at the new Prime Minister’s first oral questions in July. Although he was non-committal, I am genuinely pleased and grateful that Ministers have now announced a review, at least into the scandal of carer’s allowance overpayments. Whether that was in response to our motion, I will let others decide. I hope the Minister will say a lot more about the review when she speaks and how the Government are thinking about that. I hope the debate can be seen as the first input to, or kick-off of, that review. I certainly hope the Minister will make it clear that the review will not be a repeat of the type of review we had in the last Parliament, when Conservative reviews were set up primarily for delay and kicking issues into the long grass.
As I hinted at during today’s Question Time, my concern about the review is that the evidence to make a decision is already well-founded, with two recent Select Committee reports and mountains of evidence immediately available from organisations such as Carers UK or Carers Trust, and the National Audit Office carrying out its second review in just five years over the last four months. I ask the Secretary of State, therefore, to reshape the review that she has announced, because it is self-evident that the vast majority of overpayments of carer’s allowance should be written off immediately. I accept that there may be a few cases of genuine fraud in which that would not be appropriate, but the DWP should not be persecuting tens of thousands of carers whose overpayments were caused by the crazy cliff edge in the current carer’s allowance system, and by the DWP’s own incompetence in failing to notify them of overpayments immediately.
Some changes could be made to the rules that are just common sense, making it easier for carers to juggle work and care and thus boost our economy, such as raising the earnings limit and replacing the cliff edge with a taper. There are changes that do not need a long review; there are decisions that can be taken now, or at least very quickly. However, as our motion says, we need to go further for carers than these obvious and relatively simple decisions. The Government should conduct a full-scale review of all support for carers, so that we can make it easier for them to carry on caring and to juggle caring with work. That will be better for them, better for their loved ones, and better for our economy.
I urge the House to pass the motion. Let us not allow carers to be forgotten and ignored any longer.
The Minister for Employment (Alison McGovern)
I beg to move an amendment, to leave out from “society” to the end and add:
“; believes it is essential that carers are provided with the support they need at the time they need it; condemns the previous Government for failing to address the scandal of demands for repayments of Carer’s Allowance; and welcomes the Government’s review into how these overpayments have occurred, what best can be done to support those who have accrued them and how to reduce the risk of these problems occurring in future.”
Let me begin by paying tribute to the right hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey). It is excellent that he has brought this subject to the House. I heard what he said about family carers as opposed to unpaid carers, and while I do not want to get involved in a big linguistic debate, I think he made an important point that will be recognised by many carers up and down the country. When we are making policy, we should always listen to those with direct experience. I think that the right hon. Gentleman made his point on behalf of millions of people, and it is good that the House has heard it.
Many people will be personally acquainted with this issue. There are 5 million carers in the UK and about 1 million people are receiving carer’s allowance, so this debate is extremely important. According to the latest census, just under one in 10 people in England and Wales provide unpaid care, but the subject of carers is not at the top of the political agenda nearly as often as it should be.
Dr Luke Evans (Hinckley and Bosworth) (Con)
When I was a clinician, people did not even realise that they could be labelled as carers and could apply to be carers, and were unaware of the gateway that that would provide. Might the Government consider doing some work to make more people aware that they are undertaking caring responsibilities, so that they can then obtain the support that is actually out there, if they only knew?
Alison McGovern
That is a very good point, and the hon. Gentleman’s experience as a clinician is welcome. The Secretary of State has considerable experience of working with carers, and I will alert her to his comments, because I think she would appreciate what he has said.
We must never think this is not an issue that does not affect us all. Many of us will become carers—if not now, at some point in our lives. This affects all of us, and everyone’s life is different. Support for family carers needs to be tailored so that it works for the individual and takes into account the different circumstances that people face. When you are caring for someone, that is a huge part of your life, and it never stops. Even if you are working, you are still thinking about that person for whom you are caring day in, day out. It is not just a physical job; it is a mental, intellectual job, and that is why the issue of stress and how carers are treated is so important.
Helena Dollimore (Hastings and Rye) (Lab/Co-op)
I join the Minister in paying tribute to the millions of carers in the country, including those in my constituency. Does she agree that when someone is juggling the daily stresses of life, it can be difficult to remember to notify the DWP of a change in circumstances, which is required under the current arrangement?
Alison McGovern
I will come to the review that we will be conducting, but let me make the general point that we in the Government ought to be able to understand the realities of life and take that into account.
The position that I have described makes the dire situation we have inherited all the more shameful. Family carers are being pushed to breaking point. They have too often been forced to quit jobs that they want to keep and could keep with the right support, which isolates them and shrinks our workforce. With the right support, we could help carers and help our economy as well. To rub salt into the wound, we have inherited a system whereby busy carers, already struggling under a huge weight of responsibility, have been left having to repay large sums of overpaid carer’s allowance, sometimes amounting to thousands of pounds. It seems as though what is supposed to be a safety net designed to catch those in need was instead designed to catch them out.
Jim Shannon
For some time constituents of mine have found that they are due to repay an overpayment. I always ask them whether they remember when they made their complaint. All telephone conversations with the Department are recorded, so there is a way of making it clear that the fault lies not with the applicant but with the Department. Is there also a way of ensuring that those who have been penalised unfairly for following the Department’s advice should not have to pay that money?
Alison McGovern
As the hon. Member knows, the Department is not responsible for the delivery of social security benefits in Northern Ireland, but I am sure that Northern Ireland’s Department for Communities will be keeping a close eye on the debate and will want to take his points into account.
This problem is one of the numerous ways in which our social security system is failing the people of this country, with 2.8 million left out of work because they are unwell and more than 4 million children growing up poor, and we have therefore moved fast to fix the foundations of the DWP. That includes our setting up a taskforce to tackle child poverty, extending the household support fund for six months, and holding the first meeting of our new Labour Market Advisory Board. The board’s expertise and fresh thinking will help us break down barriers to work, such as an inability to balance paid work with family care.
Daisy Cooper (St Albans) (LD)
This Government have talked about a duty of candour. Can the Minister give an assurance that if people working at the DWP have information about maladministration and poor management of the service that they have witnessed and wish to come forward with that information, they will be protected as whistleblowers?
Alison McGovern
Obviously whistleblowing is very important. The Hillsborough law that is being introduced is not my responsibility, so the hon. Lady will understand that I cannot go over it extensively, but I will say, as someone who worked on the Hillsborough issue for many years, that it is very important to me personally.
These problems are significant, and given the scale of the challenges, we will not be able to solve all of them overnight, but we have taken important first steps, including tackling the issue of overpayments of carer’s allowance related to earnings. We have all heard the stories of some of the thousands of carers who have been affected, we have all heard and know about the stress and anxiety that it has caused them, and we all want—I hope—to establish the facts.
To address this problem, we must first truly understand what has gone wrong. That is why the DWP has announced today an independent review of overpayments of carer’s allowance that have exceeded the entitlement threshold. The review will investigate how the overpayments have occurred, what can best be done to support those who have accrued them, and how to reduce the risk of such problems occurring in future. We are delighted that Liz Sayce OBE has agreed to lead the review. My colleagues the Minister for Social Security and Disability, my right hon. Friend the Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms), and the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Stretford and Urmston (Andrew Western), have already met representatives of Carers UK, along with carers themselves, to discuss their report on overpayments, and we will consider the findings of that report alongside the independent review.
Shockat Adam (Leicester South) (Ind)
On that point, does the Minister agree that there should be a failsafe system? If an overpayment is made and the receiver is not notified, they should be allowed not to pay back any of the money.
Alison McGovern
I thank the hon. Member for his intervention. I am sure that many Members will want to provide their views to the review, which is welcome. I will come to some of the steps we have already taken to try to address the problems in a moment.
It is vital to move quickly to understand exactly what has gone wrong, so that we can set out a plan to put things right. Right now, we want to make it as easy as possible for carers to tell us when something has changed that could affect their carer’s allowance. We will continue to look at improving communications, and we are now reviewing the results of a test of text alerts to claimants who may be at risk of building up overpayments.
In response to the point that the right hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey) made about the need for a review, I assure him that we are not waiting for an extensive review in order to act; we have acted already. Our pilot involved texting 3,500 claimants to alert them when we were told by HMRC that they have breached the current earnings limit. Going forward, we want to make the best use of earnings data already held by HMRC in order to reduce the burdens on busy carers, which also responds to the point made earlier.
Alison McGovern
In a moment.
If the results of the pilot are positive, that will be the first step towards addressing the overpayments problem. I know that we need to do much more, and there are many other issues, but it will be a good start.
Ed Davey
I am grateful to the Minister for what she has just said, but will she confirm that the remit of the review will go further into the structure of carer’s allowance? Many of us think that the earnings limit is way too low, and the whole cliff-edge structure has to change. Can she confirm that the review will look at that?
Alison McGovern
I thank the right hon. Member for his question. I went through the details of what the review will look at just a moment ago, but there are wider problems with support for carers. The right hon. Member will know that the Department is currently looking at a whole host of areas, and we need family carers to be much better supported, both in work and when they are not working, so we will look at the wider issues. The review is about doing that, as I have said, but that does not mean that we are not fully aware of all the issues that carers face. As I was saying, addressing overpayments is only part of the action we need to take to ensure that unpaid carers get the support they need and deserve.
Alison McGovern
I will make a bit of progress.
We are looking closely at how the benefits system currently works, and it is right that the Government focus on addressing overpayments of carer’s allowance. As I was just saying, we have set up an independent review, but we have heard the concerns about the broader system, including the earnings limit and the lack of taper. As Members will know, earlier this year the Work and Pensions Committee, which was then chaired by my right hon. Friend the Member for East Ham, raised a number of issues with carer’s allowance—not only overpayments, but the need for modernisation more generally. As the right hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton will know, we have given the Committee’s recommendations the detailed consideration that they deserve, and we will respond later in the autumn.
Mr Speaker
Order. May I gently say to the Minister that she should look towards the Chair when speaking? I struggle to hear when she is constantly looking the other way. We operate in the third person, which is why Members should always speak through the Chair. Otherwise, I struggle to catch the words.
Alison McGovern
I apologise, Mr Speaker. You would think that after 14 years I would be able to get it right.
Alison McGovern
Yes, 14 years. It just goes to show that every day in this House is a school day. Thank you, Mr Speaker; I always welcome your suggestions.
I cannot pre-empt the Secretary of State’s decision, but she will shortly start her uprating review of carer’s allowance, following the release of yesterday’s earnings data and today’s inflation figures, and the outcome of that review will include the new weekly rate of carer’s allowance from April 2025.
Alison McGovern
Apologies, but I feel that I should keep going.
Means-tested benefits can help where appropriate. Universal credit, for example, pays an extra £2,400 a year to unpaid family carers. I do not underestimate the challenges within the universal credit system, and we want to ensure that carers who need it get that support. As I was saying to the right hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton a moment ago, we are looking at different aspects of the system, including by reviewing universal credit to ensure that it does the job we all want it to do. We will set out the details in due course.
Pension credit can also be paid to carers at a higher rate than what those without caring responsibilities receive, and over 100,000 carers receive an extra amount of pension credit because of their entitlement to carer’s allowance. However, we think that as many as 760,000 pensioners who are eligible for pension credit are not receiving it, which is why the Government have already taken action to drive up pension credit take-up. Last month, we started a national campaign to encourage eligible pensioners to check their eligibility and apply. We are asking local authorities to support that and, as the House will know, the Secretary of State and the Deputy Prime Minister wrote to them in August.
Following that, we have seen a 152% increase in applications for pension credit since 29 July, with almost 75,000 applications in just eight weeks. In November we will write to around 120,000 pensioners in receipt of housing benefit who may be eligible but are not currently claiming pension credit, and I encourage all family carers to check that they are receiving all the support to which they are entitled. The gov.uk website has lots of information on carer’s allowance, and 90% of people claim online, although traditional paper forms are available for those who want to claim it that way. I know that organisations such as Carers UK and Citizens Advice are also on hand and do a fantastic job of giving advice.
Financial help for carers is really important, but it is only one pillar of a proper support system. All of us need a balance in life, and that is important for carers too. Most carers of working age want to consider working in some form, and not just for financial wellbeing but to enhance their life and the life of the person for whom they care. We want to help family carers combine their caring responsibilities with paid work where they can. We will review the implementation of the Carer’s Leave Act 2023, which gave unemployed carers a right to time off work for the first time, and we will explore the benefits of paid leave while being mindful of the impact of any changes on small employers. Through the Employment Rights Bill, we will ensure that flexible working, which can play such an important role in helping carers to balance their work and caring responsibilities, is available to all workers, except where it is genuinely not feasible.
The Government will carefully consider the findings of Lord Darzi’s independent review of the NHS, which is very clear about the need for a fresh approach to supporting family carers. Caring is a demanding role in which no one can function at their best without ever having a break, and the better care fund includes money that can be used for unpaid carer support, including short breaks and respite services for carers. As I mentioned at the beginning of my contribution, we will ensure that family carers’ voices are heard as we develop plans to create a national care service as part of our reforms to adult social care.
Every day, unpaid family carers step up when loved ones need their support. Without the contribution of family carers, our country would not function. The pressure on social care in this country is already unbearable; without unpaid family carers, it would become completely untenable.
Jess Brown-Fuller (Chichester) (LD)
For all the talk of a £22 billion black hole, the value that carers give to the economy is £162 billion. Does the Minister agree that it is an absolute scandal that many carers are struggling financially?
Alison McGovern
Our country is in a very serious financial situation indeed. As I said at the beginning of my speech, anyone who thinks that the issue of care ought not to be right at the top of the political agenda is labouring under a serious misapprehension.
This is an important subject, which is why I am proud of the first steps that this Government have already taken to improve support for carers and to address the overpayment of carer’s allowance, which has caused so much distress for thousands of people. This shows our commitment to recognising and valuing the vital role that carers play in our communities. Of course there is much more to do, so it is my hope that, as we deliver the fundamental change that we need, we can work together with carer organisations and with carers themselves with a renewed sense of purpose to ensure that carers get all the support they need to carry out the incredible work of caring and to live full and fulfilled lives.
Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con)
I welcome this debate on this important matter. There is unanimity across the House that carers up and down this country do an extraordinary job, often in very difficult circumstances. We owe them a huge amount, and not only for the compassion and social value that their work brings, but for the financial and fiscal benefits, as Carers UK has identified, because of the costs that the taxpayer is not required to pick up.
I recognise the experience that the leader of the Liberal Democrats has in this area, through his campaigning and his personal experience. I think he said that it was good that the Liberal Democrats had brought forward a motion today that was devoid of any politics, but I am not sure that I entirely agree with him. The motion of course contains much that we can all agree on, but the relevant poisonous pills within it will ensure that when we divide later—I confidently predict that the motion will fall—only the Liberal Democrats, and perhaps a few other minority parties, will go through the Aye Lobby. They will then be able to crank up the Risographs so that their leaflets can say that only they care about this particular matter. That is far from the truth. My party, the official Opposition, cares very deeply.
When we were in Government, we brought forward a number of measures to ensure that we supported those carers. The level of carer’s allowance has increased by £1,500 since 2010. In 2023 it was my party that brought in the statutory entitlement to one week per year of carer’s leave. It was only last year that we, through the better care fund, provided £327 million to those in desperate need of respite from their caring duties. The care Act of this year increased the rights of carers and also the duties placed upon local authorities. I am also pleased to tell the House that, even more recently, my hon. Friend the Member for East Grinstead and Uckfield (Mims Davies), the shadow Minister for Women and Equalities, attended an event here hosted by Carers UK so that we could continue that really important dialogue.
Mel Stride
I think the right hon. Gentleman will find that that measure was supported by our Government—[Laughter.] No, no—most private Members’ Bills are not supported by the Government of the day and therefore make no progress. We were happy, whatever legislative vehicle was available, to ensure that that important measure came into effect on our watch.
Let me speak for a moment about the complexities of carer’s allowance, because this is really important. It goes to the heart of many of the assertions that have been made in the Chamber today. This is how it works. It is £81.90 per week. We expect somebody who is in receipt of that benefit to be providing care for 35 hours or more to one or more individuals. There is an element of trust in the way the benefit works, because the Department for Work and Pensions cannot establish exactly what individuals are doing up and down the country, and therefore there is an earnings limit, which is a proxy for the amount of paid work that somebody is doing, rather than the amount of time they are spending looking after a loved one. That is the purpose of the limit.
A complication, which has not yet been raised in this debate, is that someone’s income has to be adjusted in order to determine whether they are above or below that limit. There are adjustments. For example, they can reduce their declared income in this respect by 50% of any pension contributions they may make. They can adjust the amount of income that they compare to the limit for any equipment that they purchase in respect of their caring obligations. There are also travel costs. If someone is self-employed, various business costs can also see a reduction in the level of income. This lies at the heart of why there is a challenge in notifying people of whether they are above or below the earnings limit, because it is impossible, at the centre, to determine the answer to that question, for the reasons that I have given.
Mr Amos
The right hon. Gentleman espouses the benefits of cross-party working in an interesting way. Whatever adjustments are made to the earnings limit, will he join those on the Liberal Democrat Benches in asking the Minister to allow a higher level of earnings? That is the crucial factor that prevents so many people who badly need carer’s allowance from getting it.
Mel Stride
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point, and of course the motion states that there should be an increase—an unspecified amount, but it is there none the less. I think the answer to his question is that it is a balance, because the higher we put up the earnings limit and the more generous we are to carers, which of course is something we all want to do, the more people can earn and the longer they can work. Potentially, therefore, if this is acting as a proxy for the amount that people are working, they might not have the real time to spend 35 hours a week caring for a loved one. So it is inevitably a balance. I certainly accept that this is worth reviewing, and I note that the Minister for Social Security and Disability, the right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms), when he chaired the Work and Pensions Committee, called forcefully for a significant increase in the level of carer’s allowance.
Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)
The right hon. Gentleman has obviously set out a number of the adjustments that need to be made, but in doing so he has outlined just how complex the system is and therefore exactly why we have had the scandal in the first instance. Does he agree that we should be asking the Minister to ensure that in the carer’s allowance review we simplify this process? I can assure him that many unpaid carers are not doing 35 hours a week.
Mel Stride
Indeed. What we want, ideally, is a system that is as simple as possible. The motion suggests that we bring in a taper, but that would be a complication of the system. I will come to why there are problems with that. It is easy to suggest these things, but the detail often makes them really quite complicated.
The last Government made it clear, when someone applied for this particular benefit, exactly what the arrangements were. When uprating occurred every year, we wrote to everybody to explain the uprating and to inquire as to whether any changes in their circumstances or earnings might impact their entitlement to benefits. And it was we, not this Government, who in our May update to our fraud plan brought in the pilots for texting to alert those on carer’s allowance that they may—I say “may” because the Department will not know—be close to exceeding the earnings limit. I am pleased that the Minister has indicated that the Government will continue with our fine work, but let us be very clear who it was that started those particular measures.
Nesil Caliskan (Barking) (Lab)
On that point, would the right hon. Member therefore accept that the Department for Work and Pensions is in a complete mess and that unpaid carers in our constituencies are having to pay the price and bear the brunt of that because the system is clearly not working for them?
Mel Stride
No, I would not. I am not ruling out the possibility that it may yet become a mess, but certainly on our watch it was never a mess. In fact, it dispenses about £280 billion-worth of transfer payments both to pensioners and through the benefits system, and by and large it does a remarkable job in doing that efficiently. I want to pay tribute to all the officials and civil servants that work in that Department. They work incredibly hard and, for the vast majority of their time, produce outstanding results. None the less, of course, we can always point to elements of the system where things break down, and we must always strive to get better. That is why I welcome the Government’s review.
The suggestion that the Government should not seek the repayment of overpayments is absurd. We cannot go that far. If someone goes over a threshold, we cannot say, “Do not worry about it.” We might as well not have the threshold in the first place. By all means, change the threshold—that may be a perfectly legitimate thing to do. Otherwise, the threshold should be removed altogether.
Some Members will perfectly legitimately raise failings in the system, but when I was Secretary of State there were examples of fraud. For instance, one individual was working 100 hours a week as a taxi driver while apparently still having the time to spend 35 hours a week looking after a loved one. To my mind, that is clearly fraud, so we cannot write off absolutely everything. The Department does the right thing by looking at this issue on a case-by-case basis.
Jess Brown-Fuller
If a carer receives a bonus from their employer for doing a good job and it takes them over the threshold, should they lose their carer’s allowance?
Mel Stride
Quite possibly not, which is why the Department operates on a case-by-case basis. That is the correct approach, rather than a blanket approach that says it does not matter if someone goes over the threshold. As I said, if there is never going to be a requirement for repayment, we might as well not have a threshold at all. In some cases, going over the threshold is egregious. The Government know this, and they will have to take it into account.
Mel Stride
It is difficult to give a precise answer; what does the right hon. Gentleman mean by “a small amount over the earnings limit”? We know that, for the vast majority of the thousands of people in this situation, it will almost certainly be small amounts, including some very small amounts. None the less, fraud and error are a significant challenge across the benefits system, and need to be addressed. Any responsible Government will take that approach. Simply to say, “We have a problem, so we should take off the brakes and have no limit. We should let people claim what they like, whatever it might be, even if it is fraud”, as suggested by the leader of the Liberal Democrats, is not viable.
Mel Stride
I will give way, but I invite the right hon. Gentleman to explain how he would deal with fraud when he is pushing for none of the overpayments to be returned.
Ed Davey
I made it very clear in my speech that there could be examples of fraud, so I ask the right hon. Gentleman to check the record. I could not have been clearer, and we have talked about this at length in other fora—indeed, we made it clear at the general election.
I am afraid that the right hon. Gentleman has shown to the House that he failed to get a grip of this issue when he was Secretary of State. He recognises that the vast majority of overpayments were small amounts, often because the DWP, in which he was Secretary of State, did not pass on information to HMRC. I am afraid that he is digging a hole for himself.
Mel Stride
Regardless of what the right hon. Gentleman may or may not have said in his opening remarks, the text of the motion cannot be disputed. On the point of whether anyone should be expected to repay, the motion says that this House
“believes that carers should not be forced to face the stress, humiliation and fear caused by demands for repayments of Carer’s Allowance”.
To me, that suggests everyone. The motion goes on to say that the Government should “write-off existing overpayments immediately”. It is clear and obvious that that would include any fraudulent payments.
It may be that the earnings limit could be increased, but there would be a fiscal cost. Indeed, the Liberal Democrat manifesto reforms would cost about £1.5 billion, which is significant. We would have to take account of the balance between being more generous to carers and respecting the 35-hour rule, if that remains.
Finally, whenever there is a cliff edge, it is suggested that tapering will solve the problem, but that neglects the fact that it introduces complexity, which is the very thing that universal credit, for example, was designed to iron out. The system was like spaghetti, and nobody could quite understand how it worked. In the tax system, for example, the personal allowance tapers away after £100,000. Many people just stop working further when they reach that level of earnings, because it is not worth their while, given the marginal tax rate.
There is an interplay between universal credit and carer’s allowance, because people who earn more will end up having their carer’s allowance withdrawn. There is already a taper within carer’s allowance to make sure that work pays, so that as people earn more, their benefit is reduced but not sufficiently to make them worse off. Under the system advocated by the Liberal Democrats, there will be two tapers in two interacting benefits, which I do not think would best serve anybody, least of all carers.
Madam Deputy Speaker is seeking my conclusion. I welcome this motion, and like other parties in this House, we stand four-square behind our carers, who do an extraordinary job. I wish the Government well with their review, which we will consider seriously and objectively, as we are all on the side of carers. I stand by our record in office, of which I am proud.
Rebecca Long Bailey (Salford) (Ind)
I very much welcome the Minister’s opening comments. It is clear that she is fully cognisant of many of the issues that I am about to raise. I also welcome the announcement of the independent Government review of carer’s allowance overpayments, which I hope will be carried out urgently. I hope it will consider writing off substantial overpayments, where it is clear that carers should have been notified sooner.
On the wider issues faced by unpaid carers, I start by reading out an email from a constituent:
“I cared for my mother, who had Alzheimer’s and vascular dementia plus severe osteoarthritis, for several years. At the time of this, if the person requiring care was deemed capable of performing any self-care tasks, only part of the Carer’s Allowance was paid. My mother would, occasionally, wipe a flannel over her face and was therefore deemed to be capable of self-care, despite all other evidence.
Caring for someone is not a 9 to 5 job, it is often a 24 hour job, as in my case, with no break for the carer (as few are ever told about respite care). Those who manage employment outside the home are also overburdened, as they have no time to decompress from their paid employment before having to spend their time at home caring for someone.
Due to the nature of being a carer, the carer’s physical and mental health often declines and goes untreated as they often have no help with their situation from the Authorities or, should they have them, siblings. That alone can impact the carer’s own physical and mental health, but carers go unnoticed until there is a crisis.
To only receive the paltry current Carer’s Allowance, which will barely cover utilities and Council Tax, ignoring food and clothing, is an insult to people who are working far harder than most but remain unseen as it is not deemed to be a ‘real job’ and is considered ‘easy.’ Only those who have cared for another adult know this is blatantly untrue.”
Sadly, my constituent’s feelings are not rare. Many people care for their loved ones out of love and, all too often, it impacts on their ability to work, resulting in many living in poverty. A new report from Carers UK and WPI Economics found that 1.2 million unpaid carers are living in poverty, while one in 10 of all carers are in deep poverty. It is not hard to understand why, as carer’s allowance is the lowest benefit of its kind—currently, just £81.90 a week—and it is available only to carers who can prove that they provide more than 35 hours of unpaid care a week.
Nesil Caliskan
Does my hon. Friend agree that the evidence shows that it is disproportionately women who are carers, and therefore women who experience those levels of poverty because of the low figure she mentioned?
Rebecca Long Bailey
I welcome my hon. Friend’s comments and I agree with them.
To solve the crisis, Care UK’s modelling suggests that an immediate uplift, an increase in the earnings limit and an earnings taper would lift huge numbers out of poverty. However, a number of brutal loopholes, already highlighted by the right hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey), need to be addressed urgently, including the rules on young carers and students. Many people do not know that carer’s allowance is not paid to those studying for more than 21 hours a week. A number of young carers in Salford have told me that that means they are often excluded from any support. The pressures on them to study and care for their loved ones are immense, all while often living in extreme poverty. Sadly, many feel they have no option but to leave education aged 16.
Further, if a carer is looking after more than one person for a cumulative amount of 35 hours a week, the carer is not eligible to receive carer’s allowance. If two people share the care, each providing 35 hours a week, only one person can claim carer’s allowance.
Joe Robertson (Isle of Wight East) (Con)
I support the sentiment that we need more funding and support for carers—more finance, more money—but the email the hon. Lady read out powerfully showed that it is not just money that carers need. They need much broader support to give respite and relief, and to allow them to address their own mental health concerns that arise from their job, as well as support to stay in education longer, as she mentioned. Although money is important, does she agree that carers need the much wider community support that charities and other local groups can give?
Rebecca Long Bailey
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. Unfortunately, the ability of local authorities to reach out to carers who are struggling and directly offer them the respite care they should be entitled to has been hampered, certainly in the past 10 to 14 years. The burden of stepping in has been left to many charities. For those who live in an area with a large charitable presence, that is fantastic, but unfortunately not a lot of unpaid carers live in such areas. That is an issue that the Government must grapple with.
Another brutal issue, which is relatively unknown, is that of pensions. As far as I am aware, carer’s allowance does not get paid to those in receipt of the state pension, unless the state pension amount is lower than the weekly value of carer’s allowance. As with the pension credit threshold, at the moment a huge number of people are just over the cusp of eligibility; they live in poverty but cannot access the help they need.
There is another brutal loophole for pensioners receiving care. The Government website currently states:
“When you get Carer’s Allowance, the person you care for will usually stop getting: a severe disability premium paid with their benefits”
or
“an extra amount for severe disability paid with Pension Credit”.
That left one of my constituents, whose daughter provides care but does not live with her, in a situation where she is not entitled to the top-up in pension credit that she should be entitled to, which she needs to survive and to deal with her daily living costs as a severely disabled person.
I wanted to highlight those points, but I will bring my comments to a close as many colleagues want to speak. I welcome the encouraging comments made by my hon. Friends on the Government Front Bench. I encourage them to address the loopholes that have been mentioned urgently and, as I am sure they are doing already, to encourage action from the Chancellor at the upcoming Budget, so that we can provide the financial and social support our unpaid carers desperately need.
Several hon. Members rose—
Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)
Order. This is a heavily subscribed debate and I am determined to get everybody in, so this is fair warning. After the next speaker, Back Benchers will be limited to three minutes and maiden speeches will be limited to five minutes. These will be hard limits to ensure everybody gets in after our next speaker, Wendy Chamberlain, who has unlimited time.
Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)
I declare an interest as I am in the process of joining the board of Fife Carers in an unpaid capacity; it is a privilege to join the organisation. I have worked with unpaid carers throughout the past few years, as constituency MP for North East Fife and through the passage of my private Member’s Bill that became the Carer’s Leave Act 2023. If hon. Members want to learn more widely about carers, they may wish to read my Adjournment debate on the subject, which took place in the first few weeks of this Parliament, where I talked about the need for a strategy on carers to ensure that carers get the cross-cutting governmental and departmental support they need.
I will not touch on the overpayments scandal specifically, but I welcome the announcement of the review after months of campaigning by my dear friend the Leader of the Liberal Democrat party, my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey), as well as by the Liberal Democrats, carer charities and journalists. However, I want to raise some points about the carer’s allowance more generally.
I recently asked the Minister responsible for carer’s allowance, the right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms), a written question about a review of how carer’s allowance is working. The response said:
“This government will keep eligibility criteria and processes of Carer’s Allowance under review, to see if it is meeting its objectives.”
That response poses more questions than it provides answers. What are the Government’s objectives for carer’s allowance? Are they ever reviewed? How do they know if they are meeting them? What metrics are being used? What would happen if it was found that the objectives were not being met?
I assume that the objective of carer’s allowance is to keep unpaid carers out of poverty, given the additional barriers they face to working and the additional costs they face through their caring. I also assume that we want to help unpaid carers to stay linked to the workplace, if possible, through part-time work or training. On any assessment, carer’s allowance is failing these objectives. It is a failure when a third of households in receipt of carer’s allowance are classed as food insecure, compared with 10% of households as a whole; when Carers UK research from 2019 found that 600 people per day who were caring were giving up work; and when the rate of poverty among unpaid carers is 50% higher than among non-carers.
One immediate remedy that could be considered, as is set out in our motion, is an increase in carer’s allowance. It may not seem much in the big scheme of things, but during the pandemic we saw the impact of the £20 uplift to universal credit, which delivered an immediate and marked fall in food bank use.
We must do all we can to support people into work and to stay in work, so that they are not relying on carer’s allowance to get by. That point refers to the earnings allowance, which stops carers from working more than 13 hours a week on the minimum wage before losing carer’s allowance. As has already been discussed, there is no taper rate, so as soon as carers earn a penny more, the allowance goes.
Bizarrely, yearly increases to the allowance are not pegged to changes to the national minimum wage. Historically, people could work for 16 hours before they lost carer’s allowance; some of the scandal we have seen could be because people have continued to make those assumptions. We need to take the complexity out of the system. It is completely reasonable for people to assume that if they are earning national minimum wage and receiving carer’s allowance in one financial year, they can continue to do so in the following financial year, as long as they do not increase their hours, but that is not how the system works. The national minimum wage went up by 9.8% this year, but the earnings allowance did not go up at all. That sounds to me like a system set up to make people fail.
Should we not be enabling people to take on more hours and to progress in their jobs if they can? We know that often people—especially those who are below or near the poverty line, as too many unpaid carers are—are scared to risk losing their benefits in case that does not work out. One of the unseen outcomes of the scandal is that people are simply not looking for work or to get into employment because they are scared about the consequences.
Many young carers have high levels of absence from school and there are barriers to them accessing education. Potentially, if we do not help them to claim carer’s allowance when they are entitled to do so, they will never go into work and be able to make a contribution. Fife Young Carers, in my constituency, supports people up to the age of 25. We want to encourage young carers to complete their education so they have the best possible options later.
To return to my cross-cutting strategy, the Department for Work and Pensions may think that it is for the Department for Education to support young people. However, as the hon. Member for Salford (Rebecca Long Bailey) said, under the under-21 rule, doing a vocational qualification could preclude somebody from receiving carer’s allowance, as T-levels are one of the qualifications that falls into that trap. She is right that we need to think about how we are potentially inhibiting those young people in employment and training from moving forward. We need to ensure that we improve young people’s outcomes.
The Minister will know that employment among unpaid carers is about more than just benefits. We welcome her reference to the Carer’s Leave Act 2023 in her opening remarks and the fact that the Government are looking for that leave to be paid, which has long been a party policy of the Liberal Democrats. However, I do have to express my disappointment that there was no sign of paid leave in the Employment Rights Bill, because there was a real opportunity there to move the matter forward. I would appreciate it if, in her closing remarks, the Minister provided an update on the likely timescales in relation to the Carer’s Leave Act. I am concerned that, since the implementation of the Act, we do not actually know what the take-up of carer’s leave is. I am hearing worrying anecdotes that, six months after the legislation was fully implemented, some companies are still not aware of, or properly recording, carer’s leave. Part of that is because the communication from the then Government was not good enough. Unless somebody was starting a small business, or actively looking for these details, they would not find anything on carer’s leave.
I would like to raise one final point with the Minister. Again, the hon. Member for Salford highlighted this. I am often contacted by constituents who are upset to find that, having retired, they have lost their carer’s allowance—or, in Scotland, the carer support payment—because they are claiming their state pension. We know that female pensioners are more likely to be in poverty because of the working life that they have had—or not had—as a result of raising their families, and that unpaid carers are more likely to be female and older. I would like the Minister to pick up on that point, because too many pensioners are in poverty this winter as well as carrying caring responsibilities.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)
I call Gill German to make her maiden speech.
Gill German (Clwyd North) (Lab)
I am delighted to make my maiden speech in this debate today. Dw i’n mor falch o fod yn sefyll yma—I am so proud to be standing here.
Our carers, including our young carers, many of whom I have had the privilege to know as their teacher, are a vital part of our communities. It is incumbent on us to represent their voices and right that we take time to do that in this debate. I thank hon. Members who have contributed today, and other hon. Members who have already made their maiden speeches in this House. I hope that I can follow them with aplomb.
I wish to start by paying tribute to my predecessors. First, I would like to thank David Jones, the former MP for Clwyd West, for his 19 years of service to Clwyd West and, indeed, to his country as a former Secretary of State for Wales. Next, I wish to thank the former MP for the Vale of Clwyd, James Davies, for his service and for his keen eye for an impressive floral display through his work with Britain in Bloom. Finally, I pay warm tribute to the previous MP for Vale of Clwyd, Chris Ruane. An early local advocate of breaking down barriers to opportunity, Chris worked hard over many years to bring investment to the area, and never more so than in support of the development of the beautiful Rhyl harbour and the magnificent Pont y Ddraig, or Dragon’s Bridge. He leaves a legacy that I am proud to have the opportunity to build on as MP for Clwyd North.
I am also proud to be breaking new ground. As one of three newly elected Welsh Labour women MPs in north Wales, I join my neighbours, my hon. Friends the Members for Bangor Aberconwy (Claire Hughes) and for Clwyd East (Becky Gittins), to form a formidable force along the coast. Clwyd North boasts miles of golden coastline—from Rhyl to Rhos on Sea, taking in Kinmel Bay, Towyn, Abergele and Pensarn, Llanddulas and Colwyn Bay. Our sandy beaches are a huge source of pride.
Since Victorian times, the Clwyd North coast has been a magnet for visitors. Generations of families have holidayed there from the north-west of England and beyond, with many families making north Wales their home, including my own. As well as the usual seaside fare of ice cream, buckets and spades, and fish and chips, the Clwyd North coast boasts a water sports centre, a Michelin-recognised restaurant at Porth Eirias, live music and picture-window dining at the Pavilion theatre, and the fabulous Theatr Colwyn, one of the oldest working theatres in Wales.
Move inland in Clwyd North and the wonder continues. From the gothic Marble Church in Bodelwyddan to the magnificent St Asaph Cathedral, impressive architecture and mountain views abound. Clwyd North boasts not just one but two medieval castles—in historic Rhuddlan and the market town of Denbigh.
Of course, areas such as ours have challenges too. As a local teacher for over 20 years, I saw at first hand the issues dealt with by local families, as they struggled to make ends meet with rising costs and flatlining wages. I knew that I needed to step up. I stood for election and became deputy leader of the local council and cabinet member for education, children and families. Make no mistake, my route into politics came straight through my classroom. A teacher of the very youngest, I saw children fizzing with potential coming through my door, only to see that potential dimmed in later years by struggle and circumstance. I saw a lack of economic growth hinder the lives of their families. Most stark of all, as the years went on, I saw the children I had once taught now grown, with children of their own and those same struggles continuing.
Our missions of growing the economy and breaking down barriers to opportunity are personal to me. I am motivated every day by the vision of every child being able to fulfil their potential. I am motivated by a vision of Clwyd North with a year-round, sustainable economy, playing our part in generating green energy, as well as in design, manufacturing and installation—economic growth powered by innovation, investment and a wealth of local skills.
I have been so lucky to have been surrounded by the best and most supportive people that anyone could wish for: my hard-working and loyal dad, Graham; my kind, clever, deeply caring brother, Lee; my bright and brilliant children, Sam and Josie. Then there is my trinity of invincible, inspiring women: my best friend, Kelly; my much-missed Grandma Celia; and the linchpin of it all, my amazing mum, Kath. These people and more have made me who I am. Living, growing and working in our beautiful part of north Wales has made me who I am. As Member of Parliament for Clwyd North, I will work hard, day in, day out, to make it the very best it can be for our families, for our communities, for all of us.
Bobby Dean (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD)
Colleagues have outlined the scale of the crisis, so I shall focus on a story of one of my constituents in Carshalton and Wallington. She was told that she had to repay more than £2,300 in carer’s allowance over- payments. This constituent already makes huge sacrifices to keep her family afloat, while caring for her disabled son. She gave up her full-time job to take on caring responsibilities and has limited her part-time hours to ensure that she remains qualified for carer’s allowance. It made me so angry to hear how meticulously she tried to manage her pay cheques each month, only to have it thrown in her face. She turned down pay rises, turned down overtime and turned down Christmas bonuses to ensure that she stayed under the limit. Her employers agreed to keep her on an advance rota to help her plan her earnings. Despite her diligence, she received no notice, no warnings and no forgiveness when one day the payments stopped and the bill came in for over two grand.
Here is the bit that really gets me. The repayment demand that she received is for the entire entitlement for each occasion when she earned too much. That means that the smallest indiscretions come with the heaviest of consequences. In one month, it was because she earned £28 too much. In another, it was £20. It gets worse: one November, she was £8 over the limit—not even an hour’s work in London. Finally, and most depressingly, she once dared to earn £2 too much. She owes the whole of the allowance back for each of those periods, and then a £50 fine to boot from the Department for Work and Pensions. This is nothing short of a national scandal, and the DWP should be ashamed of itself.
Today, the Liberal Democrats are calling on the Government to right this wrong, to stop pursuing hard-working carers for these innocent overpayments, and then to fix the system that let this scandal emerge in the first place. We need to taper the allowance, raise the earning limits and treat carers with the compassion they deserve.
I am conscious of time, so finally, I welcome and am encouraged by the Minister’s comments about the review. However, for it to be successful, carers need to play a big part and have full input. We also need to make sure that carers now in debt distress get some immediate reassurances and support and do not have to wait until the end of the review.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)
I call Dan Aldridge to make his maiden speech.
Dan Aldridge (Weston-super-Mare) (Lab)
I am honoured to make my maiden address during this debate on carer’s allowance. We all know people who are working tirelessly to care for loved ones. Indeed, making life better for those who sacrifice so much was one of the main reasons I made the decision to run for election to this place. In Weston-super-Mare, it has been a privilege to get to know some of our residents who care tirelessly for loved ones in the most challenging circumstances. I pay tribute to carers in my constituency and specifically to Pat O’Connell, Jan Quan and everybody at the Parkinson’s UK Weston-super-Mare branch for being so fearless in fighting for appropriate care services for their loved ones. I am in awe of their love, compassion and conviction to secure better care and respite services not just for themselves, but for everyone. It is a real tragedy that the care system was not able to provide them with suitable respite from the 24/7 care they provide. I continue to fight their corner and that of all carers across the constituency.
Weston-super-Mare is an extraordinary place, full of a vibrant mix of people. Since my family moved to the village of Kewstoke in 2001, Weston and the surrounding areas have become deeply intertwined with our lives. I may still have my Stokie accent and a love of pottery and Staffordshire oat cakes, but Weston is now where my heart is. It is a town where we find people with roots from across our nation and from across the world. My younger sisters Emily and Lauren have become expert code-switchers between Stokie and west country based on the situation, but my younger brother Scott has embraced the local lingo and I can almost hear him now saying, “Alright, my lover?”
Weston has provided us all with a friendly community, a beautiful coastline and the best British seaside experience in the country—that is a fact. It is hard not to feel immense pride being there, and even though I will not play favourites with our local chip shops and ice cream stops, I can assure hon. Members that there are many excellent choices in the town.
This year we celebrate the 160th birthday of Birnbeck pier—Weston’s oldest—which has been closed for nearly 30 years. Its restoration has been a labour of love for many people who have worked tirelessly to preserve this piece of our history, and I am overjoyed to be the MP who will hopefully see it brought back to life for our community and for commercial use.
Weston is made up of diverse communities, from the town itself, which hosted its first mela this summer to celebrate our diversity, to areas such as Worle and villages such as Bleadon, Uphill and Hutton. Those neighbourhoods have grown significantly over the years, with post-war estates such as Bournville, Coronation, Potteries and Oldmixon fostering some of the most creative, friendly and resilient people and hosting events from community Pride to some of the most fantastic creative art events I have ever attended.
I come from a community just like those. Under the last Labour Government, I was the first in my family to pursue A-levels and go to university. It is because of those life-changing opportunities that I am here today. A constituent said to me recently, “Politics doesn’t make any difference,” but I could not disagree more. Yes, we have seen challenges, but for many of us, especially in my generation, the decisions of a Labour Government gave us the chance to succeed in ways we never thought possible. I am determined to build on that legacy and ensure we continue to empower future generations.
Recently, Weston has evolved into a haven for food and beverage enterprise, offering everything from traditional British seaside fare to incredible vegan options thanks to local champions such as Anna Southwell, who have transformed perceptions of vegan cuisine—including my own—and shown how to build and sustain inclusive communities through food, drink and entertainment. Businesses such as Kinda Co., known for its dairy-free cheese, have chosen Weston as their home, thriving there because of the opportunities we create for growth and sustainability, and while it is now just outside my constituency, the iconic Thatchers Cider will always be associated with our town.
Even though our high street, like many across the country, has struggled over the years, traditional stores such as the phenomenal family-run Walker and Ling, opened in 1904 and trading in the same place since, have kept the faith and are part of the fabric of this great town. I sincerely hope it will be there for many more years to come as we work together to revitalise the high street. Weston is also home to some amazing tech start-ups, and as the world becomes more interconnected, with high-skill, high-wage jobs tied less to cities, places such as Weston are starting to see investment. More people have cottoned on to what a great place it is, and I can totally understand why.
I thank my predecessor John Penrose for his service in this place over 19 years. I particularly pay tribute to him for his work on the Digital Markets, Competition and Consumers Act 2024 and as the anti-corruption champion in the May and Johnson Ministries. Before him came the late Lord Cotter, who was a visionary for our town, advocating for digital transformation and regional economic development. He was also a patron of a homeless and rough sleeping charity in Weston, Somewhere to Go, which he cared for deeply. I am honoured to continue in his footsteps as a trustee. I look forward to playing an active role in the Government’s ambitious plans to end homelessness, and to ensuring that technology is a force for good and that digital inclusion becomes a reality for all.
Our youth and, indeed, all those seeking to learn and develop deserve the best opportunities. I am inspired constantly by the hope, resilience and community spirit of the children and young people I am fortunate enough to be surrounded by in Weston. I am committed to ensuring that Weston continues to be a place where everyone can thrive, and where community and innovation come together to build a brighter future for all. If the children and young people I see in my constituency week in, week out are anything to judge our future by, we are in excellent hands. Thank you, Weston-super-Mare, for being my home and for giving me the opportunity to serve you.
Victoria Collins (Harpenden and Berkhamsted) (LD)
I congratulate the hon. Members for Clwyd North (Gill German) and for Weston-super-Mare (Dan Aldridge) on their maiden speeches.
Earlier this year I spoke to a family member whose mother was suffering with severe depression. Her mental health had started to plummet once she became a carer for her husband. He had fallen and been rushed to hospital, but he could not leave without a full-time carer in place. The only option for the family was to have his wife give up work and be there when he came home. The toll of that care as she became older and had to give up her job grew heavier.
I hear such heartbreaking stories of families caring for their loved ones again and again across Harpenden, Berkhamsted and Tring. Recent censuses have shown that there are thousands of unpaid carers, or family carers, across the constituency—and as has been mentioned today, those are the ones who have realised they are indeed carers.
Catherine Fookes (Monmouthshire) (Lab)
There are 311,000 unpaid carers in Wales, many in my constituency of Monmouthshire. Carers Wales estimates they provide free care worth £10.6 billion to the Welsh economy each year. Will the hon. Lady join me in condemning the previous Government for not dealing with the issue of overpayment?
Victoria Collins
Absolutely; it is a real travesty. It has come up again and again in the House that we are letting down the people who are caring for our communities and the families in them, or indeed our own families. Facing the cost and complication of getting the support they need is often left to the families and unpaid carers who lovingly pick up the pieces.
On the hon. Lady’s point, our carers are the equivalent of a second NHS. Not only are they supporting their loved ones, but they are propping up our healthcare service. It is estimated they contribute a staggering £162 billion a year, compared with an estimated £164 billion in funding for the NHS. That is a shocking £445 million per day, in comparison with the previously mentioned £81.90 per week of carer’s allowance.
I have mentioned this before in the House, but I will mention it again. In the West Hertfordshire teaching hospitals NHS trust, in one month alone, we lost 843 bed days because of a backlog in social care. That has an impact on A&E waiting times, ambulance waiting times, waiting lists and, crucially, the people waiting in hospital and their families. People want to be back home. They do not want to be stuck in hospital because of a failing system, so taking care of care and our carers is not only the right thing to do, but it helps us all.
I support the motion, which calls for overpayments to be written off, for the carer’s allowance earnings limit to be raised, and for the introduction of a taper to end the unfair cliff edge. I welcome the review, and call on the Government to support carers to juggle work and care, and as my hon. Friend the Member for Carshalton and Wallington (Bobby Dean) highlighted, to bring carers into the review. We must ensure that all carers, of all ages, are given the care that they need. We must support those who support our loved ones, and who are supporting our NHS and every one of us in ways that we may never know.
Josh Dean (Hertford and Stortford) (Lab)
I thank hon. Members for their constructive contributions to this debate, on a topic that I know is important to all our constituents. The enormous contributions made to our communities by unpaid or family carers have rightly been recognised across the House. We know that our country would grind to a halt without them, but many today are pushed to breaking point caring for those they love, and that cannot be right. The treatment of unpaid carers, unknowingly overpaid their carer’s allowance under the previous Administration, was unacceptable. Having spoken to unpaid carers in Hertford and Stortford, I know that those failures have caused many of them stress, and shockingly even left some in fear of claiming the carer’s allowance to which they are rightly entitled.
I know that local benefits advice has been invaluable to those residents, and I pay tribute to the work of Citizens Advice East Herts and other groups that offer a lifeline to those in need of support. I welcome today’s announcement from the Minister that the Government will launch a review into carer’s allowance overpayments. I am pleased that the review will look at not only what went wrong previously but, importantly, how we can prevent such problems in the future. I know that it will be welcomed by carers and unpaid family carers in my community. I am proud that the Government recognise the challenges faced by unpaid carers, and it is essential that we consider how we can provide them with the support that they deserve. I am heartened by our commitment to introduce flexible working as a right, to provide time away from work for caring responsibilities, and to join up services so that my constituents do not have to battle to get the care for their loved ones that they need.
It is also important that we turn to the task of delivering much-needed reform in adult social care. The Government’s commitment to reform of the sector, with an ambition to build a world-class national care service, is something that I am sure we all support. It is right that the project will be undertaken in collaboration with care users and their families, sector partners and care organisations, to ensure that their lived experiences are at the heart of the social care system that we build. I look forward to working with those groups in my constituency to ensure that their voices are heard.
We will all have received correspondence from constituents sharing their personal experiences of the social care system. Many of us will have relatives or friends who have struggled to access care themselves, and others will have caring responsibilities too. Now is our opportunity to fix unpaid care, and the social care system more widely, and deliver lasting change for the future. I warmly welcome today’s announcement and the Government’s programme for reform.
Liz Jarvis (Eastleigh) (LD)
I rise to speak as someone with direct personal experience of battling the care system. Since I became the MP for Eastleigh, I have been contacted by numerous constituents who have been asked to pay back thousands in overpayments by the DWP. One is a single parent of a child with special educational needs, who worked narrowly over the threshold and has had her allowance cut completely. She has been left without her allowance and is now repaying the overpayment, struggling on a limited income while caring for her son.
The carer’s allowance overpayment scandal highlights deep flaws in our social security system. Unpaid carers—those dedicating their lives to caring for loved ones—are being unfairly penalised. Many of the debts could have been avoided had the previous Government fixed system failures and responded to warnings. The system needs urgent reform. The Government must take responsibility and compensate carers for overpayments that could have been prevented. I welcome the news that the Government will review overpayments in the carer’s allowance scandal, but for the sake of all vulnerable carers facing penalties I hope that we see urgent action to rectify the situation too.
The financial reality for carers in Eastleigh is incredibly challenging; 29% of unpaid carers in the UK live in poverty, and many are forced to leave work because of their caring responsibilities. One million carers across the country are relying on a carer’s allowance of just £81.90 a week. We must raise the earnings cap, allowing carers to continue working without fear of financial penalty, but financial instability is just one aspect of the difficulties that carers are facing as we head into winter. Changes to the winter fuel payment will impact the 1.2 million unpaid carers over 65. Estimates show that 1.2 million carers are already in fuel poverty, with 42% of caring households struggling to heat their homes. That highlights the urgent need for more targeted support to ensure that carers are not forced to choose between caring and basic necessities.
We need urgent reform of carer’s allowance, better pay for care workers and more support for unpaid carers. The social care crisis is leaving too many in Eastleigh stranded in hospital beds because there are not enough care workers to support them at home. We must address these issues, with a higher carer’s minimum wage, paid carer’s leave and guaranteed respite breaks. We must ensure that carers in Eastleigh and across the UK have enough to live on, and are given the respect and support that they deserve.
Johanna Baxter (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)
I welcome the debate, brought by the right hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey), and pay tribute to my hon. Friends the Members for Clwyd North (Gill German) and for Weston-super-Mare (Dan Aldridge) on their maiden speeches. I welcome the Minister’s announcement of the independent review into how overpayments of carer’s allowance have occurred, what can be done to support those who have accrued them, and how to reduce the risk of overpayments occurring in the future.
Around 175,000 carers in receipt of carer’s allowance are combining paid work with care, and in 2023-24, there were 34,500 overpayments as a result of earnings and carer’s allowance. That means that around one in five carers who are doing paid work and claiming carer’s allowance have had an overpayment in the last year. That the previous Government allowed this situation to occur is, frankly, utterly shameful. It has pushed many unpaid carers, including many in my constituency of Paisley and Renfrewshire South, to breaking point for the sole crime of caring for somebody they love and saving the taxpayer thousands of pounds in doing so. Without their contribution, our country would grind to a halt. That this has happened to them through no fault of their own is not okay. We must provide carers with the support that they need, at the time they need it.
The Carers UK “State of Caring” report estimates that 1.2 million unpaid carers are living in poverty, and 400,000 are living in deep poverty. It also found that 75% of unpaid carers receiving carer’s allowance are struggling with cost of living pressures, while almost half are cutting back on essentials that they need to survive. That is the legacy of 14 years of Tory Government. While it is right that the review will look at getting a grip of the carer’s allowance overpayment issue, there is an urgent need for the Government to consider the broader question of how to provide wider support for unpaid or family carers. That includes support for carers on low incomes through universal credit, and through carer’s allowance.
While carer’s allowance is a devolved matter in Scotland, I urge the Government to discuss with the Scottish Government the position with respect to people in Scotland who are, or have been, receiving carer support payment while the DWP has been delivering it there on behalf of Scottish Ministers. We need a long-term vision for social care that considers how we best support unpaid carers. I know that our Government are committed to building consensus for the longer-term reform needed to create a sustainable care service.
Madam Deputy Speaker
No, I am standing now. Thank you. I call Steve Darling to make his maiden speech.
Steve Darling (Torbay) (LD)
Thank you, Madam Deputy Speaker. It is a great honour to stand here as the MP for Torbay. It is right and proper that I acknowledge the hard work of my predecessor, Kevin Foster. I also reflect on his predecessor, Adrian Sanders, with whom I worked for 18 years to support constituents in Torbay. I learned from Adrian how to put the community at the heart of all one does as a constituency MP. I look forward to building on that over this parliamentary term.
I want to thank Pam Bagnall, Hans Windheuser and Frankie Ranwell-Jones for their support at the general election. I also acknowledge the support of family members throughout my 30 years as a councillor. My mother Penny, who is here, my wife Mandy and my two sons George and William have been very, very supportive.
Other people who have been extremely supportive are the staff at Westminster, who have been an absolute delight to me and Jennie, who is planning to become the “leader of the o-paw-sition”. She is doing very well and living the true life of a parliamentarian: turning up in the Chamber and having a good sleep. She is also being a parliamentarian by making sure that she receives lots of love from wherever she can get it throughout the estate. The customer service that we have received stands in stark contrast to that in “Fawlty Towers”, for which Torquay is famous, but Members can rest assured that if they do choose to visit the English riviera, the service they receive will be of high quality.
What makes Torbay special? We have six blue flag beaches. We are somewhat challenged by the sewage in our seas, and I look forward to challenging and holding the Government to account on that particular issue. We are also a UNESCO-registered geopark, with Kents cavern at its heart. That is perhaps the oldest dwelling along the south coast of England, yet we have a wicked housing crisis in Torbay, which is, again, something that I look forward to challenging over this parliamentary term.
Torbay has been one of the wealthiest places over 100 years or so, but now we are somewhat more challenged. Oldway mansion is perhaps a prime example. It was modelled on Versailles and used as a hospital during the first world war, but it has seen better days, as has our hospital in Torquay, only 6% of which is considered standard A. We have had almost 700 sewage leaks in our hospital, affecting clinical services at times. I am shocked and horrified that the previous Government allowed our hospital to get into that state, and I cannot believe that the new Health Secretary will allow such a hospital to remain on the Government’s books unsorted.
The managing director of the steam railway in Paignton, John Jones, does something amazing every year for carers. Our “Train of Lights” service starts up in late November, and the first night is free for almost 2,000 carers. Families with disabled youngsters, foster families and those with care experience are all welcome. I thank John for doing that. That reflects what we are discussing today. I hope the Government will forgive the liabilities that some carers have. We need to enhance the payments and ensure that there is a guarantee of respite care.
I conclude by saying to the people of Torbay that this is the honour of my life, and I look forward to championing Torbay throughout the Parliament ahead of us.
Anna Dixon (Shipley) (Lab)
I thank the Liberal Democrats for choosing this important issue for debate. I congratulate several Members on their maiden speeches, particularly the hon. Member for Torbay (Steve Darling). It is wonderful to hear from him, and I am sure that his family is incredibly proud. I also welcome the House’s honorary canine Member, Jennie.
In my maiden speech, I said that carers would be the group of people for whom I would speak up in this place. For me, it is personal: my mother spent much of her life caring for my grandmother. I hope that, in time, I will be able to take up the fantastic work of the hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) as the co-chair of the all-party parliamentary group on carers. I served as a chair on the Archbishops’ commission on reimagining care. During that commission on the future of social care in England, we listened to unpaid family carers, who told us that they were stretched to breaking point. They give selflessly but at a huge cost to their own wellbeing, and, as we have heard in the debate, they make financial sacrifices, as caring can affect their ability to work. They must fight every day to get care and support for their loved ones. They do so with support from fantastic organisations, such as Carers’ Resource in my constituency.
In the “Care and Support Reimagined” report, we proposed a new deal for carers to ensure that they are valued and can give out of love and not necessity. However, as we have heard, they are being punished for trying to juggle care and work. Some 2.8 million carers are trying to do that but find that they are inadvertently breaching the earnings threshold, with the result that they face the issue of overpayments. As I have written to the Minister for Social Security and Disability, my right hon. Friend the Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms), it a scandal that the last Government knew about that—there were NAO and Select Committee reports on their desks—but did nothing, so I welcome this Government’s having seized the issue and set up the independent review, and I look forward to seeing its recommendations.
I am glad that that is part of a wider review of support for carers. It is clearly a huge building block for a national care service. As we have heard, we cannot deliver a national care service without valuing the vital role that carers play in giving love to disabled adults and older family members. I am glad that we are righting that wrong.
Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)
I will be brief. I support the motion and everything that has been said today, and I look forward to the Government’s response.
As many people know—including perhaps you, Madam Deputy Speaker—I am an unpaid carer for my wife Flora. With the salary that I receive as an MP, I can afford to do that. I care for my wife because I love her. She has been disabled for 25 years. I will talk about one aspect of the support that we get. When I am here in Westminster, a wonderful team of professional carers go and see my wife every morning, look after her and see what needs to be done. They are fantastic people, and I owe them such a big debt.
This is where I might try the patience of the House slightly, Madam Deputy Speaker, because I want to mention an aspect that is not helping those carers: the remuneration that they receive for mileage. In Scotland, carers get 61p per mile for the first 3,500 miles, and after 3,500 miles, they get 25p per mile. That is not good news given the vastness of my constituency—half the size of Wales, they tell me—and the mileage that carers have to cover. A lot of those wonderful people are saying, “Enough is enough,” packing up and calling it a day. In north-west Sutherland and Wester Ross in particular, we have an ageing population that desperately needs that kind of support, but carers are just giving up and going. It is not because they do not care for the people they are helping, but because they simply cannot afford it. The cost of running their cars is far greater than what they receive for the vast mileages involved.
Joy Morrissey (Beaconsfield) (Con)
My husband is a full-time carer for his mother, who has had three strokes. By looking after people in their homes and saving lives long term, carers make very large savings for the NHS. Given how much carers save the NHS in long-term out-of-hospital care provision, we should, as a cross-party endeavour, reconsider the compensation for mileage.
Jamie Stone
The hon. Lady makes a very wise point that demonstrates the interconnected nature of unpaid carers and professional carers, because the best solutions come when they work together.
I will conclude with this: we have a problem. It is perhaps not pertinent to the Minister who is before us today, but I hope that the Treasury will consider the issue of remuneration rates for mileages, perhaps with the Scottish Government. Those rates have not been revisited since 2011, and since then, we have had about 40% inflation. We can see what is wrong; let us sort the problem.
Daniel Francis (Bexleyheath and Crayford) (Lab)
I thank the right hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey) for bringing this debate today. I pay tribute to my hon. Friends the Members for Clwyd North (Gill German) and for Weston-super-Mare (Dan Aldridge) and to the hon. Member for Torbay (Steve Darling) for their maiden speeches.
First, I put on record my thanks to carers across Bexleyheath and Crayford and to fantastic local charities including Bexley SNAP, Bexley Voice, Bexley Mencap, Carers’ Support Bexley, Crossroads Care, Evergreen Care, Mind in Bexley, and Irish Community Services for all they do to support communities in my patch. Being a carer is often unexpected: we all see people who come to us when a loved one is diagnosed. As I referred to in my maiden speech, my wife and I knew at 12 days, when one of our children was diagnosed with cerebral palsy. Day to day, we see what it means to be a carer in the support we have to give her.
I have thought today about the pressures that exist: not just the mental health and caring pressures, but the pressures of managing the bureaucracy, such as applying for and renewing your freedom pass and blue badge; dealing with the administration of appointments at four different hospitals, in our daughter’s case; the constant appointments and calls to ensure your child’s wheelchair is working to support them; organising and constantly chasing for the correct equipment at home; reapplying for disability living allowance every three years; trying to find the respite to allow you a break and the ability to work; and exploring the minefield that comes with applying for a disabled facilities grant.
There is also the complexity of being an employer under the direct payments system: arranging shifts, issuing contracts, running payroll every month, paying insurance, calculating your staff’s holidays and ensuring the support is there, just to get—in our case—eight hours’ care per week. I have twice exhausted the complaints process with our Conservative local authority through stage 1 and stage 2 complaints. On one occasion, they did not pay our carers for six weeks; on another occasion, they did not make those payments at the national minimum wage. That all adds to the burden and pressure on carers.
In our case, we do not claim carer’s allowance, but I know at first hand the pressure of having to battle the system when it is not working for you. I hope that the review set up today will look at the issue of overpayments and at other issues that really need to be resolved for those on the frontline. As I have said previously, I will carry on pressing the Government to create a sustainable national care service that works for unpaid carers, sector partners and carer organisations. As part of that process, I will be supporting the Government’s amendment today as the first step to make things easier for carers in the years ahead.
Manuela Perteghella (Stratford-on-Avon) (LD)
I praise hon. Members for their excellent contributions and maiden speeches.
Unpaid carers are the hidden backbone of our social care system. Whether they are parents or grandparents caring for children with special educational needs or disabilities, individuals supporting a spouse or sibling, or those stepping in to care for a relative in need, those carers provide tireless support with little recognition or help. We have already heard from my hon. Friends and from Members across the House about the scandal of the carer’s allowance overpayments and their devastating impact on families up and down the country. In my constituency, countless carers are doing extraordinary work, often at great personal cost. Many are struggling to balance their caring responsibilities with their own health, their financial stability and—for some—even their jobs.
The weight of those responsibilities can be overwhelming, especially without access to proper support services such as respite care. We need a statutory guarantee of respite breaks for carers, because those breaks are essential for giving carers the time to rest and recharge so that they can continue providing vital care. At the same time, we cannot ignore the financial pressure that carers face. Carer’s allowance is simply not enough to live on: it is the lowest benefit of its kind, and it is unacceptable that carers—many of whom are unable to work due to their caring duties—are left struggling to make ends meet. We need to see a fair increase in carer’s allowance and an uplift of the thresholds, which would make a real difference for families in my constituency, ensuring that carers are not forced into poverty while looking after their loved ones.
If you will allow me, Madam Deputy Speaker, I also want to raise the issue of care provided by young people. In Stratford-on-Avon, many young people in full-time education are balancing schoolwork and studies with caring for a parent or sibling, often without the support they need to succeed in both roles. I would like young carers’ voices to be heard in the Government’s review of carer’s allowance: no young carer should be left behind simply because they have taken on the responsibility of caring for their loved ones. The Government must set an urgent timetable for reviewing carer’s allowance and simplify the system to show carers that they are valued for the essential work they do in today’s Britain.
Sarah Coombes (West Bromwich) (Lab)
For millions of unpaid carers in West Brom and around the UK, life is hard enough. They are the backbone of our care system, yet they are woefully under-supported and under-recognised. Taking care of someone is the most generous act of human kindness, but the former Government repaid those acts of service with hostile interviews and demands for repayments and by fighting carers in the courts. I welcome this new Government’s independent review, which recognises the invaluable contribution that carers make. The review will investigate the over- payment of carer’s allowance: how it was allowed to happen in the first place and, more importantly, how we can make sure it never happens again.
I know what it is like to witness the care that one person can show to another, whether that care is paid or unpaid. My grandmother—my nanny, as we called her—was looked after in the final years of her life in a care home. The team there provided tender care 24 hours a day, and they made life fun. My nanny was Irish, and even into her 90s, she was very partial to half a pint of Guinness, which the care home always provided. They always made St Patrick’s day good fun. That care did not stop when she finally passed away: when the cars went past the care home on the day of her funeral, all the staff were lined up with Irish flags to wave her goodbye. This Labour Government are going to give paid and unpaid carers the recognition, rights and pay that they deserve and create a sustainable national care service, and I am very proud to be part of that.
In my borough of Sandwell as a whole, the percentage of people providing over 20 hours of unpaid care a week is well above the national average, and for many people in my constituency, caring for their loved one is more than a full-time job. Those who are able to go to work find themselves having to restrict their hours for fear that they will inadvertently overstep the earnings limit. During the election, I met a woman in West Bromwich who was in exactly that situation: she worked as a cleaner in addition to caring for a family member. She was really struggling to make ends meet, but felt trapped, for fear of the penalty she would incur if she went even a few pennies over the earnings limit.
The motion tabled by the Liberal Democrats is right to condemn the previous Government for failing to address the scandal of repayments. Lots of carers were not even notified that they had exceeded the earnings threshold. For some, their allowance was stopped without warning, causing severe financial difficulties; others will spend years repaying, with the anxiety and stress that that brings. On top of all the other responsibilities that unpaid carers take on for their loved ones, they have been made to feel like criminals—can you imagine? As such, I support the Government’s intention to quickly get to the bottom of carer’s allowance overpayments and consider how we provide support for unpaid carers, many of whom have been pushed to breaking point just for looking after the people they love.
Josh Babarinde (Eastbourne) (LD)
Sophie, Clare, Oliver and Wendy are some of the most resilient people I know. They are all Eastbournians, they would all do anything for their families, and they are all carers. They are among the 9,415 carers in Eastbourne, and I promised them that I would use opportunities such as this debate to recognise their resilience and give them and their families a voice. Today, I strive to do exactly that. I strive to do it particularly with respect to the need for wider support to carers, which the motion mentions.
Sophie Ticehurst and her family care for Sophie’s 24-year-old brother Jack, who has autism and is non-verbal. They rely on the Linden Court day centre—which supports people with learning disabilities—for Jack’s care, but also for their respite; but the centre faces closure after years of Conservative underfunding, and it would be devastating for them if that went ahead. As would the proposed closure of Milton Grange day centre, particularly for people with dementia—again, down to the Conservative county council. That place serves as essential respite to Clare, whose 82-year-old mum benefits from its amazing care. Where is the care for the carers? We urgently need the Government to intervene to properly fund our local authorities, so that these essential care resources can be protected.
I also pay tribute to Oliver Davis, a young carer in my constituency. He is a 14-year-old Eastbournian, and since the age of eight has cared for his mum, who lives with significant cardiac issues and the long-term effects of a stroke. His mum said that
“he never complains about being a young carer.”
Oliver does us all proud. In fact, he also won a BBC Make a Difference award for being a young carer across Surrey and Sussex, and he also does the local charity Care for the Carers proud, which he works with to advocate for young carers like him.
Lastly, I want to mention Wendy Turner, a different type of family carer—a kinship carer, whom you know, Madam Deputy Speaker. She stepped up to take her two grandchildren into her care when she was 53, but she is short-changed by our system, which unjustly offers her a lower kinship care allowance than the local fostering allowance. That needs to change. Where is the care for the carers?
Our carers do so much to lift people up, but time after time, our system wears them down. Enough is enough, so I say to the Government: dignify their experiences with action; honour their stories with reform; and never take our carers for granted.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)
I do not want to be seen being too kind to a fellow Sussex MP, but kinship carers are indeed visiting here today.
Rachel Blake (Cities of London and Westminster) (Lab/Co-op)
I wish to mention an interest: my husband works for an organisation that allocates funding to Carers UK.
It really is a privilege to follow such thoughtful contributions, particularly those of Members who have shared such powerful personal testimony—my hon. Friends the Members for Bexleyheath and Crayford (Daniel Francis) and for West Bromwich (Sarah Coombes). I warmly welcome the fact that the Liberal Democrats chose to provide this opportunity for us to discuss this important issue. I pay tribute to the right hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey) for sharing his personal experience as a carer and rightly moving this issue up the political agenda.
I pay tribute to the Minister for Social Security and Disability, my right hon. Friend the Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms), whose previous work chairing the Work and Pensions Committee did so much to highlight the injustice of the overpayment scandal. I am pleased to see him in his Government role, able to put into action all that work.
For the past 14 years, carers have been woefully let down by the Conservatives, and they have been let down today by their completely inadequate defence of the overpayment scandal. After decades of cuts, too many are on the waiting list for local authority care, and local authority services have been called upon time and again to do more with less. Carers like Shirley Islam, one of the 500 registered unpaid cares in the City of London, who met me to highlight her experience as a carer, have borne the brunt of that failure; as have carers from Westminster Rethink Mental Illness, who I also spoke with recently. I look forward to working with local residents on this issue.
Nowhere is the previous Government’s failure to administer basic services more evident than when it comes to carers. Under the previous Government, the Department for Work and Pensions saddled thousands of carers with unnecessary financial burdens at a time when they had more than enough on their plate, including the 34,000 carers who received fines of up to £20,000. So today they need to hear these words: “We are sorry for the injustice and indignities you have suffered under the previous Government. We will do everything that we can to put them right. Thank you for your work and service.”
At the election, the Prime Minister promised a politics that treads more lightly on people’s lives, so I am glad that in today’s announcement the Department has scrapped the planned replacement of cash payments to carers with vouchers. We should not be telling carers how to spend their own money.
I eagerly await the announcement of a national care service, as promised in our general election manifesto, and I know that my constituents do too. I look forward to the publication of the Government’s review and the delivery of much-needed and long-awaited justice.
Olly Glover (Didcot and Wantage) (LD)
I commend my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey) for introducing this debate. I echo his call for an end to unfair overpayment claims as a result of the earnings limit, and for a comprehensive review of support for carers. I will now share some stories about carers who I have met over the years, or who are in my constituency.
As a volunteer for the Motor Neurone Disease Association, I have seen the toll that that terrible disease takes on families and their carers. Many of the people who get MND are elderly and they see their lives change from a relaxing retirement with their partner after many years of work to one person having MND and their spouse becoming a carer. That is very challenging for people who have led self-sufficient lives and lose their mobility and independence.
It is also important, as my hon. Friend the Member for Stratford-on-Avon (Manuela Perteghella) said, that we consider the experiences of the next generation of carers. Sometimes motor neurone disease can affect much younger people. One person I supported was a single parent with a four-year-old child. I saw the impact that caring responsibilities can have on children and young carers; even where really good care arrangements are in place, there is still the physical and emotional toll of being an unpaid carer.
In Oxfordshire we have 12,000 young carers; the Be Free Young Carers charity supports around 650 of them. It has been estimated that families that have a young carer earn £5,000 more than those who do not have a young carer, but while contributing huge economic benefit, young carers are one and a half times more likely to have a long-term illness or special educational needs.
A child I am calling Katie registered with Be Free Young Carers in March 2023. She cares for her twin sister, who has autism. In April 2023, Katie attended a one-to-one session that enabled her to open up about how she was feeling and the support she needed to continue her schoolwork. Later that year, Katie’s dad was diagnosed with MS, which added further pressure and led Katie’s sister to try to take her own life. After such a series of events many children would have struggled, but Katie has coped and is doing well. She has attended 13 respite trips over the past two years, including the young carers’ festival, and has a lovely group of friends. She is also a member of the charity’s youth panel. She has spoken about the Be Free Young Carers charity on local television news.
It is vital that we support all carers, including young carers such as Katie. I commend the motion to the House.
Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)
As I have already mentioned a few times in this place, carers played a significant role in my journey to this Chamber. I worked at first hand with young carers for two and a half years until I was elected. I really welcome the use of the term “family carers” in this debate, because the charity I worked for was called Action for Family Carers. I always welcome an opportunity to speak on this issue. I recognise that young carers are not eligible for the allowances that we are talking about, but I beg this Chamber’s permission to mention the subject in this debate and at every opportunity.
In my job supporting specifically young carers, I saw every day the toll that caring takes in day-to-day life. I recognise that all carers have been given a raw deal, pushed to their limits—their breaking point—in looking after people they care about and love. Since I was elected to this place, I have heard from carers who have suffered a massive amount of anxiety due to the pressure put on them because of the overpayments scandal—people whose lives have changed, who have given up careers to become carers for their loved ones, and of course young people who do not even consider going on to higher education because of the anxiety leaving their cared ones behind would cause. This cannot go on. The situation is not only untenable but unworkable, and above all it is damaging to those who we rely on in our most vulnerable moments.
That is why I welcome wholeheartedly the Government’s announcement today that they will launch an independent review of the carer’s allowance overpayments, led by an expert in the matter. This review will cut through the mistakes made under the last Government, lay bare what we can learn and help us to avoid these mistakes in the future. There is no simple solution to improving the situation for unpaid carers, but this announcement shows a clear commitment to finding the best way to improve it for as many as possible for as long as possible. I will say it again: carers are unsung heroes, and we owe it to these unsung heroes, whose contribution is often understated and unappreciated, to do this. Carers are the backbone of our society, and this review is an important step in repaying our debt to them.
Mr Joshua Reynolds (Maidenhead) (LD)
Carers in my constituency have told me how they feel undervalued and invisible. They provide essential care to their loved ones, yet their contributions are rarely recognised.
There are carers such as Harry—a resident in my constituency who provides care for his son—who feels that the work he does is taken for granted. Harry cares for his son because he wants to be there when his son needs him, but he is not given the recognition he deserves. He receives £81.90 a week in carer’s allowance, but when Harry’s hours were extended at work by just 30 minutes a week to allow one of his colleagues to get to work on time after they had finished the school run—something that Harry was of course happy to agree to—he had no idea that, despite informing the DWP and being told that it was all okay, he would be accidentally overpaid carer’s allowance. Then the threat of fines and prosecution came from the DWP. To say that it added unnecessary stress to Harry’s life and his son’s life is a really large understatement.
The health and wellbeing of carers is a critical issue for us, and many carers experience physical and mental health issues due to the demands of their caring responsibilities. There are carers such as Margret in my constituency, who cares for her 25-year-old son with learning disabilities. With her caring responsibilities, she is no longer able to work. She found the balance between her paid job and her unpaid job too much to handle. Margret tells me how she rarely gets out of the House without her son. She has lost her network of friends and now feels isolated. Carers such as Margret struggle to access the respite care they need due to high costs and the lack of availability.
The Liberal Democrats believe that every carer should have access to regular and high-quality respite care, and we want to introduce a statutory guarantee of regular respite breaks for unpaid carers, because carers are the backbone of our society. They provide essential support to their loved ones, often at great personal cost, and the Liberal Democrats want to ensure that they receive the support they need when they need it.
Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab)
I thank the Liberal Democrats for using this Opposition day for this important issue. I also thank Durham County Carers Support for the work it does across the county.
This topic is very personal to me, because I was a parent carer for my daughter Maria for 27 years—the whole of her life, in fact. Maria lived with severe cerebral palsy and needed round-the-clock care. I also have two younger children, so I totally understand the issues of exhaustion, stress and fear, as well as the tremendous joy of looking after a loved one.
The north-east is a region of unpaid care, with 10.1% of the adult population in the 2021 census providing unpaid care for more than 50 hours a week. As we have heard, it is women who are doing the hard graft. The “Women of the North” report, which I encourage the Minister to read if she has not already done so, states that many women who support family or friends do not even identify as carers. They just get on with it, regardless of the effect it has on their health and wellbeing. Women in their 50s are providing more unpaid care than the national average. In fact, they are contributing £10 billion-worth of unpaid care to the British economy each year. Again, this is higher than the national average, making the carer’s allowance scandal all the more infuriating.
Reflecting on my own experiences, when Maria was 10 and her siblings were eight and nine, we decided that I would go to university. I must have been mad, I know. That was for my own personal development, and in the hope that I would get a decent job in the future. Unfortunately, that meant I was not getting carer’s allowance any more. The course was classed as full-time, but there were actually only nine hours of contact time, so I had plenty of time to look after Maria as well. Not only was I not earning, but I lost that tiny allowance. I was trying to better myself for the future, and it was a struggle. We went into debt, it was something we really could have done without. I therefore welcome the comments by the Minister, and I welcome the fact that the Government will work collaboratively with those on the frontline, because that would have meant an awful lot to me.
I have one final comment: I want the Government to crack on with this policy as soon as possible, because unpaid carers cannot wait a minute longer, especially those in the north.
Sam Rushworth (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)
May I begin by expressing my appreciation of the family carers in the Bishop Auckland constituency? According to helpful researchers in the Commons Library, one in seven of my constituents provides at least an hour of unpaid care each week, and over half of them are eligible for carer’s allowance. Nationwide, as we have heard, our army of family carers is the equivalent of a second NHS.
I agree with the criticism made by the shadow Secretary of State that we must not risk opening the door to fraud, and it is precisely because I believe in the welfare state that I think it must always be watertight and widely perceived as fair. However, I am concerned that in a huge number of cases—I am inclined to believe that it is the majority of cases—overpaid carer’s allowance is the result of inadvertent error.
As others have said, this is a complicated benefit and when so many stressed family carers find themselves having to pay back large sums of money, there must be some onus on the Government to take responsibility. This issue is so widespread that I think every MP in this place will have been contacted by constituents facing hardship. These are decent, honest people who work hard, who serve their families and communities and who ask for little, and they feel as though they are being treated like criminals while the Government have become the nation’s biggest debt collector.
If I may, I will briefly raise a specific issue that two of my constituents have raised with me. They are being required to pay back thousands of pounds because of inadvertently earning just above the earnings threshold. However, as they have pointed out to me, carer’s allowance is counted as income in universal credit claims, so had they not claimed it, they would have received more in universal credit. I gently urge the Minister to consider this point as part of the review, as people are not only being pushed into hardship due to being made to pay back overpayments, but may actually be worse off on aggregate than if they had never claimed.
Anna Dixon
My hon. Friend rightly points out that this is a huge cause of stress to people. Not only that, but carers are actually leaving work, limiting their hours and not taking on additional responsibilities. Will he join me in calling on the shadow Secretary of State to apologise to the 134,800 carers who have outstanding carer’s allowance overpayments to a total value of £251 million?
Sam Rushworth
This sits among the many injustices that the new Government have to deal with, and I think an apology is in order.
In conclusion, I welcome this Government’s review. I think there have been some excellent contributions from all parts of the House, with some really serious issues raised such as students losing their eligibility to claim, my constituents’ point about universal credit and the points about respite care and young carers, and I do not think anyone has even mentioned kinship carers. I hope that this review will take account of all these things so that we can deliver a fairer deal for Britain’s army of unpaid carers.
Nesil Caliskan (Barking) (Lab)
I thank the right hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey) for securing this important debate. I have almost 10,000 constituents in Barking who are unpaid carers, providing a vital and caring backbone for the community. My constituency has one of the highest numbers of carers in the country, and we know that if those individuals stopped caring and delivering their vital role, our overstretched care system would crumble and the economy grind to a halt. Perhaps most importantly, the most vulnerable people in our communities would stop receiving the care and compassion that they get from their relatives and friends.
But carers do not stop, because they care about their friend or family member who needs that support. Whether it is a young carer looking after a parent, or a daughter or son looking after their elderly parent, such care is vital in our community. Instead of a system that provides them with a safety net to help with the additional costs that come with caring for someone, the system the Government have inherited is a real mess. We are in a situation where our constituents face bills from the DWP landing on their doorstep.
The current carer’s allowance system is cruel, with a punitive cliff edge that forces unpaid carers to choose between earning a basic income or caring for their loved one. It means that if a carer goes over the earnings allowance by £1, or indeed by 1p as we have heard in a number of speeches, they are forced to pay back the full amount that they received, which could be a figure in the thousands. Instead of a system that understands the need for flexibility, given the nature of being a carer and the realities of trying to fit paid work around that, often with zero-hours contracts and earnings that change from week to week, the system penalises carers and threatens them with criminal prosecution. It is just another broken system left by the previous Government that this Government have to sort out, and another part of the foundations of our country that we will fix to rebuild Britain.
As I stand to speak on this important topic, I think of the 10,000 carers in my constituency. Vital work will now progress, and hopefully it will be concluded swiftly by the Government, so that carers never have to choose between earning a proper income and caring for a loved one.
Richard Foord (Honiton and Sidmouth) (LD)
The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions was on the radio this morning, and I listened to her on the BBC describing how
“the benefit system can have a real impact on whether you incentivise or disincentivise work.”
I heard from her that this new Government intend to incentivise work, and in that we wish them well.
I wish to highlight the case of a constituent of mine, Amanda Jennings from Ottery St Mary, who reached out to me pleading for support. She is a mother and a full-time carer for her adult son who has severe autism. Amanda was recently notified by the Department for Work and Pensions that she owed almost £2,000 dating back to 2019, due to carer’s allowance overpayments. To compound that stress, a civil penalty was imposed. Her problem was that she had been receiving wage slips giving an hourly rate, and the payments were processed by an external payroll agent, so she did not have a reliable monthly income like we do.
Despite raising queries and assuming that the DWP was receiving up-to-date information, she was accused—wrongly—of misreporting her income. The consequences for her family have been severe. Her son, who had re-entered education after years of disengagement, has dropped out, and her own health has deteriorated. She is not alone—more than 40,000 people nationally face similar financial penalties for minor income discrepancies. The Liberal Democrat stance is plain: carers should not be punished for minor unintentional breaches of income thresholds. The current system is rigid and punitive, with a cliff edge that does nothing at all to incentivise work.
Earlier, I heard the former Secretary of State talking about the business of clawback, and whether it could be done retrospectively. Looking to the past, perhaps he needs to be reminded that with the furlough scheme, the previous Government failed to claw back millions and millions of pounds—indeed, the Public Accounts Committee reckoned £2.3 billion—that was incorrectly paid to employers whose employees continued to work while they were receiving furlough money. It is just like the former Government to go after the people at the bottom of the pile who are most in need, when it is the people who have been described today who most need the support. I hope that the Government will make the most of the independent inquiry that I am glad they have set up, and ensure that any changes incentivise work and make work pay.
Ben Coleman (Chelsea and Fulham) (Lab)
This has been an extraordinarily interesting debate. I pay tribute to everybody who has spoken and thank the would-be official Opposition for having secured it. In my constituency of Chelsea and Fulham, we have nearly 7,000 unpaid carers, a quarter of whom provide more than 50 hours of care a week. I know many of them, and I know what a vital, tough job they do for their loved ones, as well as the value that carers bring to this country’s economy—many speakers have touched on that. I also know that carers deserve to be treated with kindness, but instead have been treated with cruelty. My hon. Friend the Member for Bexleyheath and Crayford (Daniel Francis) touched on the local cruelty that he has experienced from his Conservative council, but nationally, through a mixture of official incompetence and political indifference, carers have been treated cruelly.
Let us be clear: the Department for Work and Pensions cocked up here and cocked up badly. When carers told officials dealing with universal credit that they breached earnings limits, officials did not necessarily pass that on to those officials dealing with carer’s allowance. When carer’s allowance officials were alerted to breaches, they did not act, in many cases for months. They did not look at their emails, so payments were allowed to build up, as has been remarked on, to as much as £48,000. Then the Department for Work and Pensions swooped in, threatened prosecutions and penalties, and in many cases did not listen to perfectly reasonable explanations. It brought in a technical solution that failed to sort the problem out. Why? Because it was woefully under-resourced. Those at the top of the Department for Work and Pensions have never properly apologised for the cruel system that they allowed to be maintained for so long. Why did they not do that? It is simple: they took their cue, as people in the civil service do, from those above them—from their political masters, the Ministers.
The shadow Secretary of State was asked by the would-be Leader of the Opposition whether he had ever asked officials how much overpayment was fraudulent. From his response, I suspect it was a question that he never asked. Why did he not ask that, and why did he fail to publish the DWP report from 2021 on the overpayment crisis until just before the election? I suspect the answer is that he was more interested in covering up than in finding out what was going on and sorting out the problem.
I am delighted that the Labour Government are now sorting this out. The review is a start. As many Members have said, there is much more to be done to support unpaid carers, but they will no longer be hung out to dry by a cruel, incompetent, indifferent Government, and that has to be a good thing.
Matthew Patrick (Wirral West) (Lab)
There are many honours in this role, and one is to be able to take part in important debates such as this and hear the expertise and passion of hon. Members across the House. I will start by paying tribute to the many carers who do incredible work in my constituency. At times of immense need, they step in, day after day, supporting family members and making such an important contribution to those they love and to our community. Our country simply would not function without them and their contribution, and I wish to share my immense gratitude to those carers from my area and beyond. Their selflessness and dedication makes this scandal all the more unfair, with carers pushed to breaking point and stress piled on stress. Sadly, like too many issues, this crisis was totally ignored and left to grow by the previous Government.
At Wirral carers’ week earlier this year, I met carers who have been impacted by this issue, and I know the anxiety it has brought them, as they have had to juggle their caring responsibilities with the uncertainty it has brought. Stability is long overdue. Carers need to know that lessons will be learned and that the mistakes of the past will not be repeated.
I welcome the Secretary of State’s announcement that she will launch the independent review into carer’s allowance overpayments, led by the disability rights expert Liz Sayce. We all wish her well with that important review. I also welcome the announcement by the Minister for Employment of the launch of a pilot to support carers further. With these steps, I truly hope that carers feel valued and listened to, that the issues they feel are important are brought to light and that there is support for them. I welcome today’s announcement, and I hope that with it, our brilliant carers know that this Government are on their side.
Madam Deputy Speaker (Ms Nusrat Ghani)
We got everybody in who wanted to participate, so well done. We now come to the Front Benchers. I call the Liberal Democrat spokesperson.
Alison Bennett (Mid Sussex) (LD)
I start by congratulating those hon. Members who made their maiden speeches this afternoon. The hon. Member for Clwyd North (Gill German) gave a brilliant description of her time teaching and the inspiration she provided to her pupils. As someone who grew up in Gloucestershire, I say to the hon. Member for Weston-super-Mare (Dan Aldridge) that his town was our destination of choice for seaside days out. My hon. Friend the Member for Torbay (Steve Darling) represents another seaside town, and he and the honourable Jennie are both dear to the Liberal Democrat group.
I pay tribute to the work of my hon. Friend the Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) in bringing forward her private Member’s Bill in the last Parliament on unpaid carer’s leave. We are truly proud of her achievement in bringing that into law as the Carer’s Leave Act 2023. I also thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey) for all his work on care and carers, and for bringing this debate to the House today.
The carer’s allowance scandal has been overlooked for years. It is astonishing that it has taken a Liberal Democrat Opposition day for this critical topic to finally receive the attention it deserves. The fact that we have had to bring this debate today—late in 2024, after a change of Government and five years after MPs looked into the carer’s allowance scandal and concluded that there was no evidence of mass fraud—is shameful and a stain on the legacy of the previous Conservative Government.
The Conservatives failed to take the action needed. The Conservatives failed to tackle the cultural problems at the DWP. The Conservatives failed to care about carers. Today, Members from across the House have given voice to unpaid family carers, whom we should be thanking, rather than punishing. We have heard about how the DWP’s actions left people feeling insulted, bullied, harassed and crushed. That is not right. We should be lifting up these people. We should be thanking them, not hounding them, for the love and care they give to their loved ones.
The population of my Mid Sussex constituency is older than the average. Across the country, the population is ageing. We cannot shy away from the fact that we will as a society increasingly rely on carers. Just because care often happens in homes—in private and behind closed doors—that does not mean that it is not important or that we can ignore it. I welcome the Government’s announcement on commissioning an open and transparent report to review the carer’s allowance overpayments, but questions remain. Will the Minister stop the shameful attempt to recoup overpayments? Will there be an amnesty on pursuing past overpayments? Will they consider tapering carer’s allowance? Will they consult on whether 35 hours of care a week is the right threshold for claiming carer’s allowance? How will they set about changing the culture of the DWP, so that people never feel like criminals simply for caring for their loved ones while trying to work to pay the bills?
It is disappointing that the Government are seeking to amend our motion to delete what carers are crying out for. After years of Conservative neglect, we cannot afford yet more dither and delay. As my hon. Friend the Member for Chichester (Jess Brown-Fuller) said, unpaid carers save the taxpayer an astonishing £162 billion a year. The Government’s financial worries would stretch far beyond the current £22 billion black hole were it not for those unsung heroes. That is not just a statistic; it represents a profound debt of gratitude that we owe to those who provide care. The social, emotional and financial value that unpaid carers bring to our communities cannot be overstated. This afternoon, Members from all parts of the House have made that point loud and clear.
Carers are not just caregivers; they are a lifeline giving support that our healthcare system would struggle to replace. There is, however, a danger in viewing care as merely transactional. Care is far more than just fulfilling a basic physical need; it is about enabling individuals to achieve their potential and live fulfilling lives—lives that they deserve to enjoy. Family carers support loved ones in ways that help them thrive, not just survive.
I close by thanking the Government for their response today and for engaging so constructively in this debate. I thank the charities that advocate for carers for the vital work they do. Most importantly, I thank the 5.7 million unpaid carers across the country for all that they do, day in, day out, with love and compassion. They are the very best of us. We see what carers do, we hear what carers are saying, and I and my Liberal Democrat colleagues will continue to speak up for them in this place.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Andrew Western)
I am pleased to be able to respond to this vital debate, which in both tone and importance has been one of the best I have heard in my two years in this place. I also add my thanks to the right hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey) for bringing forward the Opposition day motion today, because this issue is clearly of concern to many Members, and they are right to be concerned.
The right hon. Member is one of many right hon. and hon. Members to have made important contributions and spoken with great passion on this crucial issue. The hon. Members for Salford (Rebecca Long Bailey) and for Carshalton and Wallington (Bobby Dean), my hon. Friend the Member for Hertford and Stortford (Josh Dean), the hon. Member for Harpenden and Berkhamsted (Victoria Collins), my hon. Friends the Members for Wirral West (Matthew Patrick), for Harlow (Chris Vince) and for Paisley and Renfrewshire South (Johanna Baxter), the hon. Members for Stratford-on-Avon (Manuela Perteghella) and for Maidenhead (Mr Reynolds) and others rightly spoke about the important role that millions of family carers play in providing support for disabled or elderly relatives who need care at home. I echo those comments and add my own tribute to all family carers. Much of their tireless work goes unseen and unrecognised.
Like other Members, I am privileged to witness glimpses of carers’ dedication through my correspondence and through events I attend in my constituency. Running through today’s debate was an underlying and understandable anger at the position we inherited from the last Government, whereby family carers trying to do the right thing have been left with staggering overpayments, often running into thousands of pounds. As my hon. Friend the Member for Birkenhead (Alison McGovern) set out earlier, we are making sure that we understand precisely what has gone wrong so that we can put the system right for the long term. Our family carers deserve no less.
Many Members, including the hon. Members for Eastleigh (Liz Jarvis) and for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain), my hon. Friends the Members for Shipley (Anna Dixon) and for Bexleyheath and Crayford (Daniel Francis) and the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone), and of course my hon. Friend the Member for City of Durham (Mary Kelly Foy) and the right hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton, spoke about their own experiences as carers or the work they do locally to support organisations helping family carers. I grew up watching my grandmother care for my grandad, struggling with Parkinson’s disease, before later seeing my mum, one of the many hidden carers up and down the land, care for her mother—my nana—in her final years battling Alzheimer’s disease.
None of us in this House is blind to the work that carers do. They are fortunate to have some wonderful advocates. Those include their MPs, as we have seen today, but also organisations such as Carers UK, the Carers Trust and the Learning and Work Institute, to name but three. The Minister for Social Security and Disability, my right hon. Friend the Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms), and I have already met a delegation of carers and Carers UK, and he will be doing so again shortly. He will also meet separately with the Carers Trust and the Learning and Work Institute, because we are determined to ensure that the voices of family carers and the organisations supporting them are at the heart of everything we do.
I also want to pay tribute to the hundreds of DWP staff, largely based in the north-west, who provide financial support to a million family carers through carer’s allowance, day in, day out. The Government will spend record amounts to support unpaid carers. Real-terms expenditure on carer’s allowance is forecast to rise from £4.2 billion in 2024-25 to just over £4.7 billion a year by 2028-29.
I turn to some of the other points raised during the debate, with apologies that time will permit me to address only some of them. Let me take the opportunity to congratulate and pay tribute to my hon. Friends the Members for Clwyd North (Gill German) and for Weston-super-Mare (Dan Aldridge) and the hon. Member for Torbay (Steve Darling) on their excellent maiden speeches. They painted vivid pictures of their constituencies and I feel certain that they will go on to make significant contributions in this place.
On the wider points, I will begin with the question of the adequacy of carer’s allowance, set as it is at £151 per week. Carer’s allowance will be increased in April 2025 by the consumer prices index to help ensure that it maintains its value. As well as carer’s allowance, carers in low-income households can claim income-related benefits such as universal credit and pension credit. Those can be paid to carers at a higher rate than to those without caring responsibilities through the carer element and the additional amount for carers respectively. For example, over 750,000 carer households on universal credit can already receive an additional £2,400 a year through the carer element. That said, the House should be aware that issues beyond the scope of the independent review announced today are not being ignored; this is merely a first step towards progress. The Government are also looking at the broader question of how to provide the best possible support for family carers, although I do not want to pre-empt that work today.
Let me turn to the question of a taper, which was raised by a number of right hon. and hon. Members. At the moment, introducing a taper in carer’s allowance would significantly complicate the benefit, with awards having to be adjusted manually on a weekly basis for some of those declaring earnings. That would add to administrative costs and could mean more fraud and error. Those also receiving universal credit would need to have that adjusted if their payment of carer’s allowance changed because of an earnings taper rate. A taper could be introduced only following significant changes to the IT system that supports payment of carer’s allowance. For the moment, therefore, it is not possible.
On the potential writing off of overpayments, which was at the heart of many of the excellent contributions that we heard, an overpayment can occur through fraud, or through claimant or official error. The Secretary of State has an obligation to protect public funds and ensure that, wherever possible, overpayments are recovered, but determining what best we can do to support those who have accrued overpayments is within the scope of the independent review, as is how such overpayments occurred and what we can do to ensure that we take all the steps we can to reduce the risk of such incidents happening again.
Let me turn briefly to the comments of the shadow Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Central Devon (Mel Stride). He listed the many interventions that the last Government supposedly made to improve the lot of carers—seemingly including the private Member’s Bill of the hon. Member for North East Fife—but after 14 years of Conservative government, we see carers who find themselves in heartbreaking situations having racked up huge overpayments. However, the right hon. Gentleman correctly set out the incredibly complex nature of the carer’s allowance system, with allowances for legitimate expenses, pension contributions and so on, and why resolving this matter is therefore not straightforward. That is why the independent review is the correct mechanism and next step to fully understand what went wrong and why, and how we can put things right. I welcome his support for the review.
Many colleagues referred to the role that family carers play in easing pressure on the social care system, and indeed in supporting our economy, and they were entirely right to do so. I acknowledge everything that carers do. They are heroes. We appreciate how much society relies on unpaid carers, we recognise the challenges they face and we understand the need for change. Supporting carers is both a moral and an economic imperative, so we will help carers stay in paid work, we are spending record amounts on carer’s allowance and we will sort out the overpayments scandal we inherited. That is why we have announced the independent review today: so that, together, we can rebuild the trust that has been lost and ensure that those who offer comfort, dignity and support to the ones they love are given all the help they need in return. I hope right hon. and hon. Members will acknowledge that work today by supporting the Government amendment.
Question put (Standing Order No. 31(2)), That the original words stand part of the Question.