Business of the House

Lord Young of Cookham Excerpts

Thursday 4th September 2014 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hague]

The hon. Lady was right to start her questions by referring to some of the horrific events of recent days and the crimes against humanity that are being committed in Iraq and in Syria. The House’s united voice on the matter is very important, as was discussed at Prime Minister’s questions yesterday. She has welcomed the holding of a broad foreign policy debate next week. That is an important response to the demand for such a debate. It is important, too, that regular statements are made. There is a need for both those things when there are so many crises in the world. I made perhaps more statements than any Foreign Secretary in history when I was Foreign Secretary. I know that my successor will also want to make regular statements on these huge issues. Whenever it is possible to have a debate as well, so that Members can discuss them in more detail, we will have one, including next week.

On tackling extremism and bringing forward legislation, again the Prime Minister made the position clear at Prime Minister’s questions. We will introduce specific and targeted legislation to provide the police with a temporary power to seize a passport at the border. We are clear in principle that we need a targeted and discretionary power to allow us to exclude British nationals from the UK. We will work up proposals on that and discuss them on a cross-party basis. It is important to have as much cross-party unity on this as we possibly can.

It is important to get that legislation right. Over centuries there has been a legitimate debate in this country on where the balance is to be struck between liberty and security. That arises every time there is a threat to our national security. The House of Commons has always had a variety of views on these matters, so we must make every effort to proceed on a cross-party basis. Consistent with acting with sufficient speed, we will try to get the legislation right. That means that it will not be introduced next week; we will be ready to do that at some stage after the conference recess.

The hon. Lady asked whether there would be a statement by the Prime Minister on Monday following the NATO summit. There will be. The Prime Minister is very keen to do that and to inform the House after that summit. There will be time in Wednesday’s debate to discuss the situation in Ukraine.

On the Elliott review, a written ministerial statement has been published today by the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. There will be a debate on food fraud on Monday on the Floor of the House. The Secretary of State has accepted all the recommendations giving top priority to the needs of consumers, improving laboratory testing capacity and capability, introducing new unannounced audit checks by the food industry and many other measures. They are set out in the written ministerial statement.

The hon. Lady took the Chief Whip to task again, although I was a bit disappointed that it was the same joke about his being in the toilet as seven weeks ago. Recycling has its limits and we would like slightly more up-to-date—[Interruption.] I am all in favour of recycling jokes, but I expect more from the hon. Lady. I am sure that she will be able to deliver that next week.

I cannot go into the Prime Minister’s plans for his birthday, but certainly I and many of my hon. Friends will be visiting Clacton in the coming weeks. Our former hon. Friend Douglas Carswell explained in May that the Conservative party’s policy on Europe was 100% right. He may be the only person in British history to leave a political party because he was 100% in agreement with it. That is particularly striking as there are many people who sit in this House in their political parties perfectly happily who certainly do not agree 100% with their party’s policies; that is true in every party. This is no doubt something he will want to explain to the voters of Clacton, and it will be very interesting to see how he tries to do so.

The shadow Leader of the House accused the Government, or the Conservative party, of having no strategy on Europe. That is a bit rich from a member of a party that was against a referendum before the European constitution came up, then in favour of one and announced one, then against one when it came to actually holding the referendum, then against one on the Lisbon treaty, then against our referendum Act of 2011, but now has accepted it into law, then toyed with the idea of being in favour of a referendum, and has now come out against it. There is absolutely no way we will take any lectures from the Opposition on strategy on Europe.

I conclude by saying that after a summer recess in which we have seen strong figures on GDP growth in this country, our world economic ranking for competitiveness now go up four places from where it was left by the last Government on grounds of controlling the fiscal deficit, an excellent reduction in unemployment and a growth in employment figures, a major increase in car registration, and consumer confidence at its highest for a long time, it is rather revealing that there are no requests from those on the Opposition Benches to discuss the economy and the long-term economic plan of the Government.

[Sir George Young (North West Hampshire) (Con)]

The House will welcome what my right hon. Friend has just said: that there will be a statement from the Prime Minister on Monday on the NATO summit. Will he confirm that on Wednesday the general debate will run until 7 o’clock? After 7 o’clock, when we move on to the Backbench Business Committee debate, will there be a time limit or it will be open-ended?

[Mr Hague]

Yes, certainly the debate on foreign affairs and security will be able to run until 7 o’clock. That is a full day’s debate, and there are many, many issues that hon. and right hon. Members will wish to address, so it will last until 7 pm, provided that that time is taken up. I therefore envisage that the debate requested by the Backbench Business Committee on the governance of the House will take place after that, and between now and then we will bring forward a business of the House motion to facilitate that, and to establish an appropriate time limit on that debate.

Retirement of the Clerk of the House

Lord Young of Cookham Excerpts

Wednesday 16th July 2014 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young (North West Hampshire) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw). One advantage of no longer being Chief Whip is that one can take part in debates rather than moving, from the Dispatch Box, that they be curtailed. I can think of no better way of resuming an innings on the Back Benches than by adding a brief and well-deserved footnote to the generous tributes that have been paid to Robert Rogers, who holds a post that 100 years ago was held by my great-grandfather, Sir Courtenay Ilbert.

Sir Robert joined the House at about the same time as I did and, as we have heard, he helped to guide the House through the changes that were necessary if we were to continue to do our job properly. He was on my radar in the 1990s when I was shadow Leader of the House, when he was secretary to the Braithwaite committee—one of many committees set up to consider the administration of the House—which considered the vexed question of whether the job of the Clerk should be split into two, a Clerk and a CEO. He navigated his way around those rocky waters with dexterity.

That debate is for another time, but I endorse what the Leader of the House has just said: in my view, Sir Robert has all the qualities necessary to perform the job of both Clerk and chief executive and he has the energy to do both at the same time. His knowledge of procedure is legendary, but is backed up with some sensitive antennae that can assess the mood of the House, steer it through “Erskine May” and arrive at the destination that the House needs to reach. He has been a fantastic chief executive, which requires a totally different portfolio of skills from that of the Clerk. He has pioneered the introduction of new technology into this place and has been the accounting officer for a huge budget. He has taken his HR responsibilities very seriously and has helped to shape the debate about the long-term future of the building.

He has always been totally impartial. As Leader of the House and as Chief Whip, I have had frequent occasions to ask his advice and he always put the interests and reputation of the House at the heart of any advice. The Deputy Leader of the House at the time has asked me to say how grateful he was to the Clerk for his advice on the highly complex issue of privilege.

Sir Robert has been a great servant of Parliament. He is a civilised man, a successful author, a man with a mischievous sense of humour, legible handwriting and a delightful turn of phrase. He is excellent company, and he is a man with interests outside this place. We wish him and Jane all the best as he pursues those interests with the same commitment and enthusiasm with which he pursued the interests of the House, its staff and its Members.

Parliamentary Commissioner for Standards

Lord Young of Cookham Excerpts

Wednesday 12th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Sir George Young (North West Hampshire) (Con)]

May I add a brief footnote to these exchanges and, in so doing, speak for the first time for 22 years from the Government Back Benches? May I place on the record my congratulations to my right hon. Friend the Leader of the House and his Deputy for getting the two best jobs in the Government? They have the necessary qualities of respect and affection for the House to enable them to discharge their duties, and they will be assisted by an outstanding private office and the best Parliamentary Private Secretary in the business. I wish them well in navigating the Government’s legislative programme through the House.

Paragraphs 4 and 5 of the report refer to John Lyon. I worked with John Lyon for his first two years in the post, when I chaired the Standards and Privileges Committee, and I endorse every word in paragraph 5. I pay tribute to his discretion, and one of his predecessors had difficulties on that front. He was meticulous in his dealings with the press, and I commend his integrity and thoroughness, and the clarity with which he wrote his reports. As we have heard, he was commissioner at a time of unparalleled difficulties for the House, but he never faltered. I know that he will want to clear his in- tray to the extent that he can before he departs from office, and we wish him well in his retirement. We are all grateful to the selection board for sifting the candidates. I was very impressed by Kathryn Hudson’s quiet authority when she was interviewed by the Commission. She has absolutely the right background and I wish her well.

Finally, paragraph 12 deals with the number of days. This job is demand-led, in that the in-tray is determined by the propensity of Members of Parliament to misbehave and the propensity of members of the public to complain about it. Neither of those things can be forecast. I think it is right to start where we have started and then raise the work load if necessary. I know that the incoming commissioner will be reassured by the commitment from the Commission to give the resources that are necessary should the work load, for whatever reason, increase. With those remarks, I join others in commending the motion.

Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards

Lord Young of Cookham Excerpts

Monday 16th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Young)]

I beg to move,

(1) That a Committee of this House be established, to be called the Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards, to consider and report on—

(a) professional standards and culture of the UK banking sector, taking account of regulatory and competition investigations into the LIBOR rate-setting process;

(b) lessons to be learned about corporate governance, transparency and conflicts of interest, and their implications for regulation and for Government policy;

and to make recommendations for legislative and other action.

(2) That Mr Andrew Tyrie be Chair of the Commission.

(3) That Mark Garnier, Mr Andrew Love, Mr Pat McFadden and John Thurso be members of the Commission.

(4) That the Commission have leave to join with any committee appointed by the Lords to consider the said matters.

(5) That the Commission may hold meetings under the provisions of paragraph (4) of this order at any time after the Lords has agreed to appoint a committee.

(6) That the Commission shall, except as provided for in this order, follow the procedure of a select committee of this House.

(7) That the Commission shall have power—

(a) to send for persons, papers and records;

(b) to examine witnesses on oath;

(c) to appoint specialist advisers;

(d) to invite specialist advisers (including Counsel appointed as specialist advisers) to examine witnesses;

(e) to adjourn from place to place;

(f) to sit notwithstanding any adjournment of the House; and

(g) to report from time to time.

(8) That the Commission shall have power to appoint sub-committees to consider matters specified by the Commission within the terms of this order and a subcommittee shall have—

(a) the powers in paragraph (7)(a), (b), (e) and (f); and

(b) the power to invite specialist advisers appointed by the Commission (including Counsel appointed as specialist advisers) to examine witnesses;

and the quorum of a sub-committee shall, subject to paragraph (12)(b), be one member of this House.

(9) That the Chair may report to the House an order, resolution or Special Report as an order, resolution or Special Report of the Commission which has not been agreed at a meeting of the Commission if he is satisfied that he has consulted all members of the Commission about the terms of the order, resolution or Special Report and that it represents a decision of the majority of the Commission.

(10) That the quorum of the Commission shall be two members of this House.

(11) That, whenever this House shall stand adjourned other than to the next day, any report, Special Report, order or resolution agreed to by, or evidence taken or received by, the Commission, including any under paragraph (9) of this order, may be published or printed under the authority of this House, shall be deemed to have been reported and shall be reported when this House next sits.

(12) That, when the Commission operates under the provisions of paragraph (4) of this order, the following provisions shall apply—

(a) the quorum of the Commission shall be two members of this House and two members of the House of Lords;

(b) the quorum of any sub-committee shall be one member from either House; and

(c) the power of the Chair to report under paragraph (9) may also be exercised with the Chair’s agreement by a member of the Commission who is a member of the House of Lords.

(13) That the costs of the Commission shall be assessed by the House of Commons Commission from time to time and shall be paid by Her Majesty’s Government for the credit of the House of Commons (Administration) Estimate.

(14) That the Commission shall report on legislative action no later than 18 December 2012 and on other matters as soon as possible thereafter.

(15) That a message be sent to the House of Lords to desire their concurrence.

On 5 July, the House debated professional standards in the banking industry for a full day and resolved to establish a Joint Committee of the two Houses on that matter. As I said in that debate, I do not think there is any disagreement between the Government and the Opposition on what we need to do, which is to sustain in the UK a strong, vibrant, transparent and more accountable financial sector that commands international confidence.

The motion before us is the result of negotiation following the House’s decision to establish a Joint Committee. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Chichester (Mr Tyrie) for the work that he has undertaken while also chairing a very active Select Committee. I also thank Her Majesty’s Opposition. Following the debate, it was essential that Parliament was seen to be acting in the best interests of the public in resolving the issue before it, and that could happen only if the Joint Committee were supported not only by the parties in Government but by the Opposition. I am grateful to those who have added their signatures to the motion.

I do not intend to detain the House for long. I want to make five points, spending half a minute on each. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Before the Leader of the House makes his five points, to which I wish to listen carefully, may I gently say to the House that he should be heard? Any Member should be heard, but the Leader of the House is a very senior Member, and Members should not be sitting chuntering to each other; they should show him some courtesy, which they all learnt at one time.

[Sir George Young]

As I said, I have five points and will spend half a minute on each one.

First, the process to establish the Commission is not following the normal process for establishing a Joint Committee. The Commission, if established tonight, will be able to begin its work immediately and to meet during the recess. It is my hope that before the other place rises, it will also establish a Committee of an equal number of members to act jointly with the Commission that we are establishing tonight.

Secondly, the Commission is being established with powers that are already inherent in our parliamentary system. It will also have the novel power to invite special advisers, including counsel appointed by the Commission, to examine witnesses. I do not think that that will become the modus operandi of other Select Committees, but it will give the Commission the teeth that it needs to carry out its important investigative role quickly and effectively.

Thirdly, it is proposed that

“the Commission shall have power to appoint sub-committees to consider matters specified by the Commission”.

Unusually, the sub-committees will have a quorum of one. I have discussed that with my hon. Friend the Member for Chichester. The purpose is to allow a single member of the Commission to consider a specific issue, for example a technical matter, and to send for papers with a view to informing the wider Commission. That will feed into the Commission’s work and allow it to tackle a broad-ranging subject in a compressed time frame.

Fourthly, paragraph (13) of the motion directs the House of Commons Commission to assess the costs arising from the Parliamentary Commission to be paid by the Government. As the Chancellor said in the debate on 5 July:

“I commit to giving it any resources it needs to do its job.”—[Official Report, 5 July 2012; Vol. 547, c. 1136.]

I hope that that reassures my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and North Essex (Mr Jenkin), who sought reassurance during our debate on 5 July that the Commission should not raid

“the staff and resources of other Committees.”—[Official Report, 5 July 2012; Vol. 547, c. 1149.]

Fifthly and finally, the motion sets a deadline for a report on legislative action of 18 December. That will include pre-legislative scrutiny of the banking reform Bill and any recommendations of the Commission’s inquiry that require a legislative vehicle in order to be implemented. The December deadline will give the Government time to consider any recommendations in time for the introduction of the banking reform Bill, which is planned for January 2013. If the Commission cannot complete all its work by 18 December, we will expect it to report on the other areas as soon as possible thereafter.

We have in this Parliament the skills, expertise and mandate to do the job. I am confident in the ability of the new Commission to rise to the challenges that confront us and to address the central issue at stake: restoring confidence in the UK banking industry. I commend the motion to the House.

Public Reading Stage and Explanatory Statements on Amendments (Pilot)

Lord Young of Cookham Excerpts

Thursday 12th July 2012 Written Statements

[The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Young)]

I am today announcing a pilot of the Government’s Public Reading Stage system for the Small Charitable Donations Bill.

Lobby groups, industry and other third parties, who tend to have a close understanding of the legislative process, already actively engage as a Bill goes through its various stages in Parliament. But there are thousands of other private citizens who may have expertise in a certain area but either do not know how to or are unwilling to use the current channels to get involved in providing MPs with their views. Public Reading Stage will allow us to end up with more open and better laws by harnessing the experience of the public.

A trial of a Public Reading Stage was undertaken for the Protection of Freedoms Bill in the previous session of this Parliament. Following an evaluation, my Office has worked with the Government Digital Service to develop a new, simple digital platform that allows members of the public to read the Government’s proposed Bill and related information, comment on specific clauses and to make suggested amendments. The site can be visited at: http://publicreadingstage.cabinetoffice.gov.uk.

It is the intention that a normal Public Reading Stage would run for around three weeks, from First Reading to seven days before a Public Bill Committee meets for the first time. In reflection of the pilot status of this stage and the natural interval that the summer recess provides, the site will be open for six weeks, until 23 August 2012, allowing the greatest possible number of comments to be made. Following this, officials in HM Treasury will collate these into a report to be presented to the Public Bill Committee and made available in the Vote Office and online.

I intend to bring forward proposals later in the session for a second Public Reading Stage pilot, following an evaluation of the Small Charitable Donations Bill Public Reading Stage.

The evaluation will consider:

The volume of comments received and their relevance to the legislation.

Any amendments proposed to or made to the legislation in response to specific comments.

The reception of the Public Committee and the whole House at report stage to the comments.

Any other feedback received from contributors to the site and Members of Parliament who contributed to scrutiny of the Bill.

I would also like to remind the House that the Small Charitable Donations Bill will be the second of the pilots for the tabling of explanatory statements to amendments, covering both Public Bill Committee stage and report stage, as I set out in my written ministerial statement of 23 May 2012, Official Report, column 72WS.

The Government intend to continue to participate fully in the pilot, and I would encourage all Members who table amendments at both Public Bill Committee stage and report stage to take part.

Business of the House

Lord Young of Cookham Excerpts

Thursday 12th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Young)]

With permission, I should like to make a statement about the business for next week, which will be as follows:

Monday 16 July—Opposition day (4th allotted day). There will be a debate on health, followed by a debate on adult social care. These debates will arise on Opposition motions.

Tuesday 17 July—Debate on a motion relating to the Prime Minister’s adviser on Ministers’ interests, followed by a motion on the summer recess Adjournment, the format of which has been specified by the Backbench Business Committee. The subjects for these debates were nominated by the Backbench Business Committee.

The business for the week commencing 3 September will include:

Monday 3 September—Second Reading of the European Union (Approval of Treaty Amendment Decision) Bill [Lords].

Tuesday 4 September—Second Reading of the Small Charitable Donations Bill, followed by a motion to approve a money resolution on the Prisons (Interference with Wireless Telegraphy) Bill.

Wednesday 5 September—Opposition day (5th allotted day). There will be a debate on an Opposition motion, the subject of which is to be announced.

Thursday 6 September—Debate on a motion relating to immigration, followed by debate on a motion relating to community hospitals. The subjects for these debates were nominated by the Backbench Business Committee.

Friday 7 September—Private Members’ Bills.

I should also like to inform the House that the business for Westminster Hall for 6 September will be:

Thursday 6 September—A debate on the UK’s energy supply, followed by a debate on building regulations applying to electrical and gas installation and repairs in dwellings.



As these are the last business questions before the summer recess, may I, as usual, thank the staff of the House for all their hard work, Mr Deputy Speaker? I hope that they have a good and well-deserved break before we return in September. I am sure that the whole House will also want to join me in wishing all participants in this summer’s Olympic and Paralympic games the best of luck, especially Team GB.

[Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab)]

I thank the Leader of the House for his statement. May I echo his thanks to all the staff of the House for the way they have supported us this Session? May I also say to him that, following his written ministerial statement on the experiment with public reading stages, the Opposition will certainly be looking forward to the pilot?

As these are the last business questions before the Olympics, may I take this opportunity, as the Leader of the House has just done, to wish Team GB all the best? The whole country is behind them. However, given today’s urgent question on security, the problems with the M4 flyover and the continuing issues at Heathrow, could he assure us that the Government are confident that these troubles will be overcome before the opening ceremony?

The Government’s handling of the House of Lords Reform Bill has descended into farce. On Tuesday, the Prime Minister lost control of his party and the Government abandoned the programme motion. Despite an explicit promise to me on Tuesday, the Leader of the House has failed to make a further announcement about how the Government intend to proceed. I hope that he will do so in his reply to me.

In his usual helpful way, the Liberal Democrat peer Lord Oakeshott said on Wednesday that the Prime Minister must

“not cringe to the Tory dinosaurs now they have tasted blood.”

Last night at the 1922 committee the Prime Minister apparently gave a hint about how he wishes to proceed when, after hugging his beleaguered Chief Whip—we all agree with that and can add our sympathy to him—he said:

“We are not going to negotiate with Labour, they are the enemy and they can’t be trusted—we are going to negotiate with the Liberal Democrats”.

By all accounts, the Prime Minister’s unique perspective on the trustworthiness of Liberal Democrats did not go down terribly well in that room. It was then pointed out to him by a much more experienced member of the Conservative parliamentary party that:

“Labour is not the enemy; they are Her Majesty’s Opposition”.

May I gently suggest to the Leader of the House that, as the PM clearly does not have the votes on his own side to deliver House of Lords reform, we should proceed on the basis of genuine cross-party discussion and agreement?

At business questions last week, I asked the Leader of the House about Conservative and Liberal Democrat Ministers splitting Government time to enable them to differentiate themselves from one another. In reply, he said that, when it came to the House of Lords Reform Bill, there would be a

“seamless approach to the legislation from those who are opening and closing the debates”.—[Official Report, 5 July 2012; Vol. 547, c. 1071.]

It did not quite work out that way, did it? I see that the Government announced at the end of last month that they were launching a £14 million fund to help people through the process of divorce. It gives people who are splitting up advice on how to divorce amicably and avoid arguments. Could the Leader of the House say whether the Prime Minister and his deputy were the first in line to receive the advice?

Yesterday, the Deputy Prime Minister sent an e-mail to his dwindling band of party activists, and I have managed to obtain a copy. In it, he says of Tuesday’s Lords vote:

“This is a huge triumph for our party”.

I wonder what on earth a disaster would look like in the eyes of the Deputy Prime Minister.

Last night’s suggestion that replacing the remaining hereditary peers with directly elected Members is a substantive reform is absurd. We have been debating whether there should be a 100% elected or an 80% elected second Chamber; electing just 10% would not be a democratic reform. A 10% elected second Chamber would not be a compromise; it would be the Liberal Democrats running up the white flag.

What a shambles this has been: the Prime Minister has lost control of his party; the Liberal Democrats are in revolt; and Government Whips have taken to ordering rebel Tory Back Benchers off the premises. And it is not just Government Whips who have been bullying their own Back Benchers. We have got used to the Prime Minister losing his rag at the Dispatch Box, but on Tuesday night, in one of his Flashman moments, he had an angry altercation with one of his leading Back-Bench rebels. Would the Leader of the House make a suggestion to the Prime Minister: “Just calm down”?

[Sir George Young]

On the first question, we are determined that the Olympics will be a great success and that the issues that the hon. Lady referred to will be resolved in good time.

The hon. Lady conveniently glossed over the rebellion among the Labour Members, 26 of whom defied their Whip, so it is clear that the Conservative party is not the only party that has differences on this issue. In my business statement, I announced the business for the first week back, which did not include further progress on the Bill, but on the substantive issue that she raised, it was clear from the vote on Second Reading that a huge majority of the House want to get on with it, with majorities within each of the three major parties voting for reform. She said that we could trust the Labour party, but I have to say that the Labour party was willing the end but not willing the means. Saying before the programme motion was even tabled that Labour Members would vote against it shows a lack of commitment to getting the Bill on to the statute book.

It was equally clear on Tuesday that there was no consensus on the timetable for the Bill, which is why we did not make progress with the programme motion. What we want to do—I say this in response to what the hon. Lady has just said—is to reflect and to allow time for meaningful discussion, including with the Opposition and with other hon. Members, to build a consensus on the best way forward. As I said on Tuesday, we do intend to table a timetable motion for the Bill in the autumn, but, as the House would expect, we want those discussions to take place first before I can give the House any further information.

As for marital relations, I think that relationships within the coalition are much better than relationships within the previous Labour Government. I get on much better with my deputy than the previous Prime Minister got on with Tony Blair. I just say to the hon. Lady, in conclusion, that two parties are working together to put right the mess left behind by the Labour party, which still refused to admit that it got anything wrong.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

Under the coalition Government, 10,000 more people suffering from cancer have received treatment as a result of the cancer drugs fund that we introduced. That would not have been possible had we followed the Labour party’s proposals to cut the national health service. May we have a debate on the benefits that the coalition Government have brought to the health service and the further improvements we can bring to cancer research?

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir George Young]

I am glad to say to my hon. Friend that we can have a debate on the health service, because we will have one on Monday. The subject was chosen by the Opposition and that debate will give all my hon. Friends the opportunity to explain the extra resources we have made available to the NHS, resources that it would have been denied by Opposition Members, including the cancer drugs fund to which my hon. Friend just referred.

[Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab)]

May I return to a theme that was raised extensively during last week’s business questions, which is the review of children’s heart services? The Leader of the House will recall that Members on both sides of the House raised that important issue with him. The decision to end services at Leicester’s Glenfield hospital has been shattering news for families and patients in Glenfield. Already 28,000 people have signed a petition and 250 are signing it by the hour, but unfortunately time has not been found for a specific debate on the future of children’s heart services. I concede that there is an Opposition day debate on health, but given the cross-party support I am not sure whether that is the appropriate moment to discuss this. Will the Leader of the House find time for such a debate or impress on a Health Minister the importance of coming to the House to make a statement on the future of children’s heart services before the summer recess?

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Lindsay Hoyle)]

Order. I stress that a lot of Members are trying to catch my eye and we are already quite late into the day. I want to get everybody in, so if we can have short questions that will be very helpful and I am sure that we will get speedy answers. This is the last chance that Members will have to ask questions of the Leader of the House before the recess so I want to get everybody in.

[Sir George Young]

After the passionate representations made at business questions last Thursday, I raised the matter immediately with my right hon. and hon. Friends at the Department of Health. There are Health questions on Tuesday and I am glad to say that the Backbench Business Committee has found time specifically for debate on children’s heart surgery in Leeds and on children’s heart surgery in Leicester during the pre-recess Adjournment debate on Tuesday. There will also be opportunities to raise the issue during the Opposition day debate on Monday. I hope that between now and the time the House goes into recess there will be three opportunities for the hon. Gentleman and others who share his concern to raise the matter with my hon. Friends in the Department.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

In view of the constitutional importance of the House of Lords Reform Bill, will the Leader of the House confirm that sufficient time will be provided in Committee of the whole House for every clause and every schedule to be debated?

[Sir George Young]

It is certainly our intention that there should be sufficient time to debate the House of Lords Reform Bill in Committee. Speaking from memory, I can tell my hon. Friend that 50 hours have already been devoted to the Bill by the Joint Committee. In addition to providing adequate time for consideration of the House of Lords Bill, it is also the Government’s intention to provide adequate time to debate the other Bills in the legislative programme.

[Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)]

On the question of House of Lords reform, given that the Prime Minister has said that he does not trust the Opposition, how on earth can we have a constructive dialogue unless we recognise there must be mutual respect?

[Sir George Young]

I repeat what I said to the Opposition on Tuesday: we are very anxious to have a constructive dialogue with them about the programme motion, but despite repeated requests on the Floor of the House for them to tell us how many days they want in Committee, we did not get an answer. I repeat what I said to the hon. Gentleman when he intervened in my speech on Tuesday, which is that we are happy to enter into discussions with the Opposition, as I said a few moments ago, to find a way forward. As Leader of the House, I am conscious of the fact that a large majority in the House wants the Bill on the statute book and it is up to all those who want to see it there to work together to achieve that objective.

[Dr Matthew Offord (Hendon) (Con)]

The Government intend to introduce ambitious targets for the recycling of plastic packaging, which will impose financial obligations on UK manufacturers. However, local collection and sorting of plastic packaging is a long way off from being able to deliver those targets and there is little incentive for local councils to improve when they have weight-based recycling targets. May we have an urgent debate on how to establish a realistic road map for promoting recycling that takes account of the local reality and does not hold small and medium-sized enterprises financially responsible for delivering targets that are outside their control?

[Sir George Young]

My hon. Friend raises an issue that is of concern to many local authorities, including my own. I shall raise the matter with my relevant colleagues, who are presumably those at the Department of Energy and Climate Change and the Department for Communities and Local Government, to see whether we can find a way through and provide real incentives to recycle that do not impose unrealistic obligations on small and medium-sized enterprises.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

Will the Leader of the House arrange for a statement to be made to sort out the mixed messages that are being sent by Ministers to Citizens Advice in Manchester? In June, the Under-Secretary of State for Justice, the hon. Member for Huntingdon (Mr Djanogly),wrote to me to confirm that he was terminating the contract for the community legal advice centres that Citizens Advice runs in the city of Manchester six months early, so the money will run out next March. At the same time, the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, the hon. Member for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (Mr Hurd), who is the Minister for civil society, wrote to the same organisation to congratulate it in glowing terms for its achievements and saying specifically:

“We would like to see many more projects like yours”.

Will the Leader of the House get those two Ministers together to sort out the message and, more importantly, to sort out some additional resources to ensure that the services can continue?

[Sir George Young]

Of course I will respond to the challenge laid down by the right hon. Gentleman, contact the two Ministers to whom he has referred and get a consistent response, hopefully so that that good organisation can continue to provide advice to the citizens in his constituency. I will raise the matter with the Lord Chancellor and the Minister for civil society in the Cabinet Office.

[David Tredinnick (Bosworth) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend congratulate our right hon. Friend the Prime Minister on his efforts, including a change in the law, to clear the demonstrators out of Parliament square so that it is available for all the visitors during the Olympics? When does the Leader of the House expect the remaining demonstrators to leave?

[Sir George Young]

My hon. Friend was a keen supporter of the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act 2011, which prohibits the erection of tents on Parliament square. As he knows, many were removed relatively recently. Operational decisions on making further progress to clear the square are a matter for the Metropolitan police and I shall draw my hon. Friend’s remarks to the attention of the police to see whether any further action is needed.

[Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)]

In previous years, the children who attended the international physics Olympiad were given funding. Last year, they won three silver and two bronze medals. Despite my letters to the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills and the Department for Education, they have refused to restore funding. Will the Leader of the House look at how we can support our brilliant future physicists?

[Sir George Young]

I commend the achievements mentioned by the hon. Member for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz)—I stress the reference to Walsall, after last week—and will raise the issues she has raised with ministerial colleagues and will ask them to write to her.

[Sir Robert Smith (West Aberdeenshire and Kincardine) (LD)]

The Leader of the House will know how important local post offices are to many of our constituents around the country, especially in rural areas, and how welcome it is that the Government have made a commitment to having no post office closure programme. May we have an update from the Government on the new Post Office Local model, and particularly whether the Post Office is putting them into the right venues? The loss of services that come with the transition might not be appropriate in all cases.

[Sir George Young]

My hon. Friend is right that we have committed ourselves to no wholesale closures of post offices such as those that we saw in previous Parliaments. I will raise the issue with the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills, who will be at the Dispatch Box on the first Thursday after we come back. I will see whether I can get a response before then.

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)]

On Tuesday, we had a statement from the Department for Work and Pensions about the proposed closure of Remploy factories. The Minister did not give a list of those factories that were facing definite closure and nine were under possible commercial bids. My Bridgend Remploy factory thought that it had made a successful bid and that it was one of those whose bid for their own future was going forward. It is now subject to a commercial factory bid and has no idea who the bid is from or what the future holds. May we have an accurate and fully detailed statement from the DWP about what is happening, and can each Member who has an appropriate factory be notified before we rise for the recess of what is happening in their area to the people who are directly employed in their Remploy factories?

[Sir George Young]

As the hon. Lady said, the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Maria Miller), who has responsibility for disability, came to the House to make a statement on Tuesday and answered questions for a substantial time. I do not know whether the hon. Lady was able to get in on that exchange and ask that question, but I shall certainly raise the question of the future of the Remploy factory in Bridgend with my hon. Friend and will ask her to write to the hon. Lady so that we have some clarity on which avenue that factory is going down.

[Mr David Ruffley (Bury St Edmunds) (Con)]

The Leader of the House referred to the Government’s intention to table a time allocation motion on the House of Lords Reform Bill. Can he confirm that that will be tabled during the September sittings?

[Sir George Young]

The precise wording that I think I used on Tuesday was “in the autumn”. I have announced the business for the first week back. We are sitting for two and a half weeks in September, and I would very much hope that by the time we rise for the conference recess I will be able to give the House further information about our proposals for the Bill.

[Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab)]

One of the particular pleasures that I have had since being elected in 2010 is to welcome parties of schoolchildren to this place from my constituency, and many hundreds of them have benefited from that. One unintended consequence of the decisions taken last night could well be that those opportunities are curtailed somewhat, particularly for parties having to travel many miles to get here. Will the Leader of the House use his best endeavours to try to maximise the opportunities for such school parties in future?

[Sir George Young]

This refers to a debate that took place yesterday when the Deputy Leader of the House mentioned that specific consequence. The House has made a clear decision when to sit on Tuesday, but we will look at the consequences for tours and see whether we can find some way through to make sure that those who want to visit the House are able to do so.

[Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)]

The 2010 Browne report recommended that an efficient national scheme be set up through the student finance system to encourage past graduates to contribute to university endowment funds. May we have a debate on this subject and the progress on that?

[Sir George Young]

I cannot promise an early debate before the House rises, but my hon. Friend makes an important point. I can only suggest that when the House returns in September he applies for a debate in Westminster Hall, so that he can pursue this particular avenue and deal with it at greater length.

[Mr John Denham (Southampton, Itchen) (Lab)]

The right hon. Gentleman has been here even longer than I have, and I have been here long enough. Will he draw on his considerable experience of this House to confirm that where a clear majority of the House supports a Bill in principle, it is perfectly possible to make good and measured progress even if there is not a timetable resolution, simply by that majority closing a debate on a particular topic when it has had due attention and moving on to the next matter? Can we kill the myth that a timetable resolution is essential for progress on a Bill?

[Sir George Young]

That was not the conclusion drawn by the Labour Government, who introduced timetable motions on all the constitutional measures in the recent Parliament. There is a real risk if we go down the route suggested by the right hon. Gentleman—who I am sorry is standing down at the next election—of having protracted debates on individual subjects each of which needs to be guillotined. My own view is that it is much better if, in principle, one can seek agreement on an overall amount of time and then plan the debate for the Bill in conjunction with the time that is needed for all the other Bills. I am slightly reluctant to go down the route that the right hon. Gentleman has just invited me to go down.

[Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)]

May I draw my right hon. Friend’s attention to the debate on Tuesday on the Prime Minister’s adviser on ministerial interests? The motion now has, or will by tomorrow morning, no fewer than 18 signatures from Chairs of Select Committees, and includes support from people such as the right hon. Member for Birkenhead (Mr Field) and our right hon. Friend the Member for Mid Sussex (Nicholas Soames). I have good indications and hope that Her Majesty’s Official Opposition are also sympathetic to the motion. Will the Government be seeking to block the motion and will the Leader of the House say which Minister will be leading for the Government?

[Sir George Young]

I am glad that we have found time to debate this important issue, which was displaced when we had the debate on the banking inquiry last Thursday. This was a step that the Opposition were not prepared to take in government, so I take their current support with just a pinch of salt. I cannot tell my hon. Friend who will be responding to the debate, and he will have to wait for the reply from a Minister to find out the Government’s reaction to the proposition that he has put before the House.

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

In the written ministerial statement today on wild animals in circuses, the Government talk as though they are proposing a ban, but it is clear that they are considering a licensing regime. That is not what the many, many Members who turned out for the debate a year ago were led to believe when the Government promised them a ban in an attempt to avoid an embarrassing defeat. May we have an urgent statement on it?

[Sir George Young]

My right hon. Friend the Minister of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has made it clear that we are proceeding with changes to the licensing system in the short term, but we are committed to legislating in the longer term. If the hon. Lady looks at the written ministerial statement, there is a clear reference to draft legislation.

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

The almost complete absence of Liberal Democrats from their Benches today suggests that most of them may already have abandoned the marital home, but despite that massive handicap, may we have a debate on a votable motion in Government time on the future of the nuclear deterrent? Members from both sides of the House would very much like an opportunity to express their views on such an important matter, because we have not had a chance to do so since 2007.

[Sir George Young]

I understand my hon. Friend’s interest. He will know that the Minister for the Armed Forces is undertaking a review, which I think was the subject of an exchange at recent Defence questions. A good opportunity to have a debate on that issue will be when that review is completed.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Leader of the House will know that many young people will be leaving schools, colleges and universities this summer, and many will be in danger of joining an already large number—almost 1 million—of unemployed young people. He knows that I have asked for greater attention, imagination and leadership on this issue for a long time. Has he considered the call that I have heard outside this place for the Duchess of Cambridge to have a particular role looking at and leading on the issue of young people who need our help this summer?

[Sir George Young]

I will certainly ensure that the Palace is aware of the hon. Gentleman’s suggestion. He will know that in the last quarter, youth unemployment was down by 29,000, and I hope very much that we can maintain that downward trend. He will also know that there are a range of initiatives on apprenticeships, the youth contract and the Work programme, which we hope will further reduce the rate of youth unemployment.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

I know how much the Leader of the House hates programme motions because on constitutional matters when in opposition he always voted against them. May I make a suggestion that will be helpful to him, the Chief Whip and Parliament? The problem on Tuesday night was not caused by the programme motion; it was because there was not a business of the House committee. If there had been such a committee, with members who were not part of the Executive or the shadow Executive, it would have made time available. Surely in September we should bring in a business of the House committee, and that would solve all the right hon. Gentleman’s problems on programme motions.

[Sir George Young]

I am not sure that my hon. Friend has got that one absolutely right. The Wright Committee recommendations make it absolutely clear that the Government have an entitlement to get their business through. My hon. Friend’s suggestion is that the Government’s business should be subjected to a regime that might put at risk the likelihood of the Government getting their Bills through. It was always envisaged that the House would set up a Backbench Business Committee, which we have done, but it was always recognised that the Government should be entitled to get their business through.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

I will certainly be trying to speak in Monday’s health debate, but I am dismayed that the Leader of the House has not given any notice that the Secretary of State for Health intends to come to the House, because he has issued a written statement today about appointing an administrator for my local healthcare trust. He has met the Conservative Members of Bromley and one of the Conservative Members of Bexley who are affected by the decision all together, but he did not meet the Labour Member who covers a Bexley seat, nor the Labour Members in the borough of Greenwich. That is clear and blatant politicising of the decision. I hope that the Leader of the House will take that back and make it clear that not only is the House unhappy with the Health Secretary’s behaviour, but that it is not appropriate for him to avoid coming to that Dispatch Box having put out blatant misinformation from his Department about the performance of that trust.

[Sir George Young]

The Secretary of State has put the House in the picture by making a written ministerial statement, which is a perfectly appropriate means of communicating Government initiatives. There is a health debate on Monday, where the hon. Gentleman may be able to raise this. I think the issue of meeting Members of Parliament was raised at Prime Minister’s questions yesterday, and I will do as my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister said and make further inquiries to see whether meetings can now take place that have not taken place so far.

[Mark Pawsey (Rugby) (Con)]

I shall be travelling to Rwanda this weekend to join Project Umubano, the Conservative party’s social action project. May we have a debate on how such projects are an excellent way for volunteers to appreciate international development issues?

[Sir George Young]

I welcome my hon. Friend’s initiative and know that he has been to Rwanda before. As we speak, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Development is on his way there, and I commend the work being done by those volunteers who are helping to transfer skills in medicine, law, business and a range of other areas. There was an opportunity to develop this yesterday at International Development questions. My hon. Friend will know that we are sticking to our promise on aid because it is the right thing to do and because it helps our own security and prosperity.

[John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)]

In his big red file, does the Leader of the House have a copy of every one of the 28 written ministerial statements tabled today, including the one confirming that the Government are cutting funding for further education courses for older students, which will mean that those over 24 will have to pay up to £4,000 a year at a time when they are worried about jobs, debt and how to pay the bills? It has been tabled, with the regulations, just three days before the summer recess, preventing this House from properly challenging this big change. Will he make time for a debate on the change in this Chamber?

[Sir George Young]

There is an Opposition day on Monday, when the Opposition could have chosen this subject for debate. I have looked through the written ministerial statements. I saw one from the same Minister, the Minister for Further Education, Skills and Lifelong Learning, about extending loans to students aged over 24, which I hope the right hon. Gentleman will welcome.

[Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab)]

May we have a statement from the Health Secretary on regional pay, given the decision by 20 NHS trusts in the south-west to walk away from the national pay agreement, “Agenda for Change”, which thousands of NHS staff in Exeter and the wider south-west feel will lead to a further erosion of their pay and conditions, not least because the Liberal Democrats have been boasting recently that they blocked Conservative plans for regional pay?

[Sir George Young]

There is a health debate on Monday, when the right hon. Gentleman will be able to raise the matter.

[Brandon Lewis (Great Yarmouth) (Con)]

This morning I attended the Federation of Wholesale Distributors conference and had the chance to be reminded how important the industry is in supplying millions of people across the country through the retail network. Like retail, it is primarily made up of small and medium-sized enterprises, the very businesses that the Government are focused on for delivering job growth and economic growth and that have provided the half a million extra jobs we have seen since the coalition came to power. Will the Leader of the House find time for a debate in the autumn, in Government time, on the work the Government are doing to encourage SMEs and secure further job growth?

[Sir George Young]

I will spend the summer recess looking forward to that debate, when we can explain what we have done: cutting corporation tax, ensuring access to finance, scrapping regulations, setting up 24 new enterprise zones and a range of other measures to promote employment and growth in my hon. Friend’s constituency and elsewhere.

[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

May we have an urgent debate on the anti-Christian behaviour and bias of the Charity Commission? A constituent has contacted me because the commission has revoked the charitable status of a trust that is part of the Brethren Christian Church, which does a lot of good work for charity. This is an extremely important test case because it has widespread implications for all Christian charitable trusts. Does the Leader of the House not agree that Christian groups that are serving the community have the right to charitable status and should not be subject to politically correct bias?

[Sir George Young]

I am sure that the Charity Commission is not anti-Christian. I do not think that the organisation to which my hon. Friend refers has ever been registered as a charity, so it is not quite true to say that that status has been revoked. The application has been turned down because it was not clear whether there was enough social engagement with the community to meet the public interest criteria. As I understand it, that decision has now gone to appeal at the first tier, which I think is probably the right way to resolve it.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Dairy farmers in my constituency were so concerned about the current and future potential cuts to the price of milk before 1 August that they travelled the 220 miles to London yesterday, with many hundreds of others, to complain about the potential loss of £50,000 from their incomes. I know that the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, the hon. Member for Newbury (Richard Benyon), is having meetings this week about the consultation on contracts, but can the Leader of the House indicate whether we will have a written or oral statement on the matter before the House rises and, if not, what mechanism is in place to ensure feedback to those farmers before the price cut deadline of 1 August?

[Sir George Young]

There will be a debate specifically on the dairy industry in the pre-recess Adjournment debate on Tuesday, which I hope will be an opportunity to bring the House up to date. I know that many hon. Members met their dairy farmers yesterday to listen to their concerns. The right hon. Gentleman will know that the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs has made available £5 million to help certain farmers and that we are doing all we can to promote a voluntary agreement that will provide greater transparency and improve contractual arrangements between purchasers and dairy farmers.

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

The Office of the Rail Regulator is currently carrying out a review of access charges for freight traffic moving on to the network, which are potentially very damaging for businesses that transport heavy bulk loads in and out of Immingham port in my constituency. Will the Leader of the House arrange for a statement on the matter from the Secretary of State for Transport?

[Sir George Young]

I will certainly draw my right hon. Friend’s attention to the concern my hon. Friend has just expressed. It is very important that we develop the railway network in such a way that it is possible to move freight from road to rail and that the interests of freight operators are not ignored when we look at track access charges.

[Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)]

Bullying in the workplace is apparently on the increase. On Tuesday night I witnessed a very red-faced and angry Prime Minister sticking his fingers in the face of the hon. Member for Hereford and South Herefordshire (Jesse Norman), who, reportedly, was then removed and marched off the estate by the Prime Minister’s henchmen. May we please have an urgent debate on bullying in this place and the Prime Minister’s anger management issues?

[Sir George Young]

I honestly think that there are better business questions that can be put to the Leader of the House than recycled gossip and tittle-tattle.

[James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con)]

Jaguar Land Rover has recently announced that it intends to create 4,500 new jobs over the next five years and is investing £500 million in a new engine plant in the Black Country enterprise zone. May we have a debate on the success of that enterprise zone in supporting a successful automotive industry in the west midlands?

[Sir George Young]

My hon. Friend reinforces a request for a debate made a few moments ago, which I would very much welcome, although I cannot promise one before we rise for the recess. We need to give business in the UK all possible support, removing regulatory barriers to growth and promoting the excellent record of the motor industry—we are now a net exporter of cars, rather than a net importer. It is absolutely crucial that we stick to our fiscal consolidation targets, which have provided the right framework for this success.

[Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)]

Although this morning’s written ministerial statement on aviation strategy from the Department for Transport is welcome, the House was expecting a second written statement and a consultation on capacity in the south-east and the status of a hub airport. That absence is regarded by business organisations and the TUC as harming British competitiveness and the British economy. Can we expect to have the statement in September, or will it be delayed a third time? We are two years into the coalition but still have not had a strategy.

[Sir George Young]

The hon. Gentleman will have seen the written ministerial statement on aviation policy, which makes it clear that we intend to publish a call for evidence on maintaining our international connectivity in the medium and longer term. We remain committed to adopting the final aviation policy framework by next spring, so there will be the second phase to which he refers in due course.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Has the Leader of the House noticed that Members from Britain’s supposedly third major political party, with a few honourable exceptions, appear week after week to be absent from this Chamber on Thursdays? Is it official Government policy to give the Liberal Democrats a disproportionate leave of absence, or could the national interest, which the rest of us discuss, perhaps be made more interesting and important to attract greater attendance from the junior coalition partner?

[Sir George Young]

I am not sure that that is a useful subject for a future debate, but, if my hon. Friend looks at the record in the Division Lobbies, he will see that our coalition partners have been present—on some occasions in even greater proportions than some members of my own great party.

--- Later in debate ---

[Seema Malhotra]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker.

Miraculously, however, a letter appeared today from the Minister for disabled people, suggesting concern at Mr Bellisario’s plight. A citizen in a wheelchair should not have to take or to threaten legal action to get a response. May we have an urgent debate about the needs of people with disabilities when accessing public services, including transport, and the Government’s effectiveness in addressing those issues.

[Sir George Young]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady and have seen that article in The Guardian. As she says, my hon. Friend the Minister for disabilities takes the issue seriously and is intervening. It is important that those in wheelchairs have access to public transport, and I will ask my hon. Friend to write to the hon. Lady.

[Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

May I join my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) in pressing the Leader of the House on the appalling decision by the charity commissioners to revoke charitable status from the churches called Gospel halls of the Plymouth Brethren on the ground that they do not admit non-members to their holy communion, although they do admit non-members to all services, bible readings and all the rest? These people are a small and completely harmless Christian community. For almost 200 years we have proclaimed in this Chamber the right to religious freedom. This is a vital and important issue, and we should proclaim it.

[Sir George Young]

Further to the original question posed by my hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon), I must say that it has been decided not to enter one of the Brethren halls on the register of charities because the legal basis for the registration of that organisation as a charity is not clear, and the question, as I said a moment ago, was whether the trust met the public benefit requirement, given the limited social engagement of the followers of the Brethren in the wider community. That decision has been challenged by way of an appeal to the first tier tribunal, and that is probably the right way to let it proceed.

[Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/Co-op)]

Since the Rio+20 conference, the Environmental Audit Committee has been trying to get the Deputy Prime Minister to appear before it to report on the summit, at which he led the UK delegation. He has not yet found time to do so, but, given that his responsibilities for legislation might be a little lighter in the immediate future, will the Leader of the House ask the Deputy Prime Minister to ensure that he appears before the Committee to report on the conference and on how the UK takes forward the issues raised at it?

[Sir George Young]

As I have been reminded, the Deputy Prime Minister made a statement to the House and is regularly accountable to the House at the Dispatch Box. It has been a convention, among all Governments, that they decide which Minister to put before a particular Select Committee. There have always been attempts to get Treasury Ministers to appear before individual Committees, but Governments of all persuasions have resisted that and put up the appropriate Secretary of State.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

As a Co-operative Member, it has come to my attention that funding for fan-owned rugby league clubs appears to be under threat. Will the Leader of the House please contact the Department for Culture, Media and Sport with a view to releasing a statement after the recess in order to alleviate those concerns?

[Sir George Young]

I will raise the hon. Gentleman’s concern with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport and ask him to write to the hon. Gentleman, rather than wait until we return after the recess.

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

May I wish the Leader of the House a pleasant summer recess and ask that, when we return, we have a debate about privatisation? Recent events have convinced me that, sometimes, private concerns can do a more effective job than Government concerns, not least because more Conservative Back Benchers voted against the House of Lords Reform Bill’s Second Reading on Tuesday than voted in favour. May we have a debate about privatising the Government Whips Office—in the interests of public efficiency?

[Sir George Young]

I think the Government Whips Office is already privatised: it is run by people who have a commitment to enterprise, individuality, private sector growth and the rest. Rather than looking just at Back Benchers, it would be fairer if the hon. Gentleman looked at the votes of the Conservative party as a whole, where he would see that a majority voted for the Bill’s Second Reading.

[Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)]

A caravan holiday park business, Tingdene, has continuously, deliberately and in a bullying fashion targeted Hazelgrove caravan owners association in my constituency, because the association has stood up for caravan owners’ consumer rights. May we therefore have a debate to discuss broadening the proposed new residential park home legislation to include holiday caravan parks?

[Sir George Young]

I think I am right in saying that one of the successful bidders in the ballot for private Members’ Bills made park homes their chosen subject. I very much hope that that Bill makes progress, because we all have constituents who have difficulties with some owners of park home sites, and I very much hope also that if the Bill is not currently configured in a way that meets the needs of the hon. Gentleman, there will be a sensible discussion as it proceeds through the House, and that any necessary amendments might be made.

[Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)]

The Office of Rail Regulation’s proposal to introduce a specific tax on the movement of coal and iron ore was referred to by the hon. Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers). Will the Leader of the House arrange for the Secretary of State for Transport to make a statement on the measure’s likely impact, if it goes ahead, on the UK economy and on UK energy prices?

[Sir George Young]

I repeat what I said a few moments ago, and as a former Secretary of State for Transport I am very keen that, wherever possible, we move freight from road to rail. I would be very concerned if unnecessary barriers were put in the way of that transfer. I will raise the matter with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport and ask that any letter she sends to my hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) be sent to the hon. Gentleman as well.

House of Lords Reform Bill

Lord Young of Cookham Excerpts

Tuesday 10th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Young)]

We have listened carefully to the debate so far, confident that we will get a significant majority on Second Reading tonight. But for Lords reform to progress, it needs those who support reform to vote for reform and to vote for that reform to make progress through this House. It is clear that the Opposition are not prepared to do that, so we will not move the programme motion tonight. We remain committed to making progress on Lords reform, and with Second Reading behind us we will then consider how best to take this agenda forward and how best to secure progress through the House for reforms that have the backing of this House. The Government will move a timetable motion before we make progress in the autumn, in accordance with the rules of the House.

[Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab)]

The Government’s decision to withdraw the programme motion today is a victory for Parliament. The Leader of the House has talked about a timetable motion, but will he now confirm, so that there is no doubt, that if this Bill passes its Second Reading tonight, it is the Government’s intention to bring forward immediately a motion to commit the Bill to debate on the Floor of this House? Will he also confirm that it is not now the Government’s intention to bring forward a guillotine on this Bill, having effectively lost the argument for a timetable today? We must have the time to debate this Bill and scrutinise it adequately.

[Sir George Young]

I have nothing to add to what I have just said, apart from this: there will be business questions on Thursday, and at that point I hope to be able to tell the House more about the Government’s proposals.

[Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD)]

Does my right hon. Friend have any sense of optimism that, following the announcement he has just made, the Labour party will at last tell us how many days it wants?

[Sir George Young]

I say to my right hon. and learned Friend that I am ever optimistic, but, as he will have noticed during the exchanges yesterday, despite repeated requests, the Opposition were never able to put a figure on the number of days that they would have found adequate.

[Mr David Blunkett (Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough) (Lab)]

Will the Leader of the House give way?

[Sir George Young]

Yes.

[Mr Blunkett]

I am very grateful to the right hon. Gentleman, who is indeed a gentleman and always has been. Will he confirm what he said a moment ago in reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle): that a timetable motion will actually be brought forward in the autumn by the Government, and as a consequence the only way in which this House can show its displeasure at this constitutional abomination of a Bill is to vote against it on Second Reading tonight?

[Sir George Young]

I respect the right hon. Gentleman, but I would not draw that conclusion. The issue on Second Reading is whether the House supports the principle of the Bill, and I very much hope that the House will do so. As I said, there will subsequently be a timetable motion, which the House will have an opportunity to debate and vote on, and it is at that point that the right hon. Gentleman will be able to express any concern that he may still have.

[Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)]

May I commend the Government for the wisdom of their decision today? But may I put it to my right hon. Friend that whatever moral authority this Bill had it has now lost? I commend his determination to reflect on what to do next, but may I beg him to make no further commitments about what might be decided, because I think that the authority of the coalition will be undermined if it proceeds with a Bill that it is unable to obtain?

[Sir George Young]

With great respect, I have to disagree with my hon. Friend. Whether the Bill has “moral authority”, to use his words, depends on the verdict of the House on Second Reading. If the House gives the Bill a majority on Second Reading, the House is perfectly entitled to make progress with it, and I indicated in my statement that in the autumn we hope to come back with a timetable motion in order to make progress. But we do now have some moments for reflection.

[Jesse Norman (Hereford and South Herefordshire) (Con)]

rose—

[Sir George Young]

I will give way one last time, as I am conscious of Mr Speaker’s injunction about the large number of people who want to speak.

[Jesse Norman]

I am enormously grateful to my right hon. Friend for giving way. Let me make it clear from the Conservative Benches that the very substantial opposition from within the Conservative party, not just that from Labour, was responsible for the withdrawal of the motion. That should be perfectly clear and reflected in the record.

[Sir George Young]

On these matters, I listen to my right hon. Friend the Patronage Secretary, who indicated some dissent with the proposition put forward by my hon. Friend. I always agree with the Patronage Secretary.

In response to your injunction, Mr Speaker, I shall now move on to what I was going to say about the merits of the Bill on Second Reading. I want to address the issue of the primacy of the House, which was a matter that concerned many hon. Members yesterday. As the first Conservative Front Bencher to speak in the debate, however, I hope the House will understand if it I say why I think my party should continue to support the Bill.

The House will recognise that I could have no conceivable problems with the Bill, given that some of the ideas originate in a book that I co-authored in 2005, to which the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle (Alan Johnson) referred yesterday. I have spoken in favour of reform in just about every debate since 1997—and there have been many—and, like many colleagues, I have supported reform in the Lobby. I respect the views of my colleagues who oppose our reforms, but I point out that the last time the House voted on this topic in a free vote in 2007, the majority of Conservative Members voted against a fully appointed second Chamber.

Some have branded the Bill a Liberal Democrat measure, but I invite the House to look at the list of the Bill’s sponsors. As far as I am concerned, the Bill has strong Conservative antecedents, and I would have been happy to introduce it if we had had a majority Conservative Government. My party has a long and proud history of constitutional reform. Although other issues might make the hearts in North West Hampshire beat a little faster, we have always been concerned with the health of Parliament.

At the 1955 general election, the Conservatives under Anthony Eden announced in their manifesto:

“It has long been the Conservative wish to reach a settlement regarding the reform of the House of Lords, so that it may continue to play its proper role as a Second Chamber under the Constitution.”

Three years later, it was a Conservative Government under Harold Macmillan who navigated through Parliament one of the few reform Bills of the past 100 years, the Life Peerages Act 1958. I say to my colleagues who are unhappy about this Bill that when the then Government introduced the 1958 Bill, it was in the teeth of sharp objections from some Conservatives in both Houses, but I believe that everyone now accepts that that was a sensible reform. I believe the same is true of our proposals to move progressively from an appointed to an elected House. I see nothing Conservative about retaining a wholly appointed upper House in the 21st century.

[Conor Burns (Bournemouth West) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend referred to the free vote in this House in March 2007. I remind him that in the vote on the wholly appointed element of the proposals, 17 current Conservative Ministers and six Conservative members of the Government Whips Office voted for that 100% appointed Chamber. They will now be compelled to vote against their beliefs.

[Sir George Young]

I am sure that my hon. Friend’s point is absolutely accurate, but that does not destroy the point I made a few moments ago, which was that on a free vote in the previous Parliament, the majority of Conservative Members voted against a wholly appointed House. As a matter of interest, the whole House voted by a majority of two to one against a fully appointed House.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

rose—

[Sir George Young]

I will give way to the right hon. Gentleman, but I am not going to give way for ever.

[Mr MacShane]

The Leader of the House is making the perfectly fair point that different parties at different times have had manifesto and party commitments to reforming the House of Lords. We can be agreed on that. The Prime Minister is offering a referendum to the people of the Falklands and a possible referendum on Europe and we have had a referendum on the alternative vote system, so will the Leader of the House explain why the British people are not being offered a referendum on the biggest constitutional change since 1832 as a final part of the Bill?

[Sir George Young]

I say gently to the right hon. Gentleman: what happened to the Lisbon referendum? I do not know whether the right hon. Gentleman was in the Chamber yesterday, but my right hon. Friend the Deputy Prime Minister dealt with the question of a referendum on several occasions. He dealt with it again in Deputy Prime Minister’s questions today and it is dealt with in our response to the Joint Committee’s report. In the 1990s, under the leadership of my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary, the Conservative party opposed Labour’s changes to the composition of the upper House, not because we wanted to retain the hereditary peers, but because we took a principled stand to argue—with very little dissent—for “no stage 1 without stage 2”. Our fear, disputed forcefully by Labour at the time, was that if we did not move immediately to an elected House after the abolition of the hereditaries, progress would inevitably stall. That was my party’s view at the time, and how right we were.

Let us remember that, in their response to Lord Wakeham’s report in 1999, the previous Government said that they would

“make every effort to ensure that the second stage has been approved by Parliament before the next general election.”

That was the 2001 election, when they told us we were going to elect the first tranche. Yet with three large majorities, three White Papers, two Green Papers, one royal commission, one Joint Committee, two Acts of Parliament and two sets of free votes, Labour missed a golden opportunity to move on to the second stage, despite support from many Conservatives and Liberal Democrats.

[Pete Wishart (Perth and North Perthshire) (SNP)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Sir George Young]

I propose to make a little more progress, and then I may give way again.

No political party ever voted for the halfway House that we now have, and no one wanted that to be the lasting settlement, or imagined that it would be. Although their Lordships do a diligent job, I believe their work is undermined by their lack of democratic legitimacy. It is simply unacceptable that just five people have appointed over 75% of the Members of our second legislative assembly. Tony Blair appointed 316 peers during his time in office. I find that difficult to defend.

[Pete Wishart]

Should we not just go home? The Leader of the House knows it is all over; Government Members know it is all over. We have more important things to debate and decisions to make today. Let us just say, “Enough is enough,” and call the whole shooting match off.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir George Young]

The hon. Gentleman can go home, but the Government plan to proceed with their legislative programme.

[Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con)]

On the question of election, would the Leader of the House be good enough to explain how it can possibly be justified that the Lords in question should be elected for 15 years?

[Sir George Young]

The average length of service now is 24 or 26 years, so the proposal is an improvement.

[Mr Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

[Mr John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)]

Will the Leader of the House give way?

[Sir George Young]

No, I am going to make some more progress.

We have ended up with exactly what the Conservatives warned against at the time. As my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary said when he was Leader of the Opposition:

“if we are not careful we are going to have a House of Lords dominated by the cronies of the prime minister of the day”.

I say to Members of my own party that they cannot argue for “no stage 1 without stage 2” and then block stage 2. We have been committed to a mainly elected second Chamber since 1999 and this commitment was in our last three election manifestos.

Let me address briefly the issue of primacy, which came up repeatedly during yesterday’s debate—

[Mr Spellar]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way on that point?

[Sir George Young]

No.

Some colleagues accept the case for reform, but are opposed to the idea of election. We heard yesterday that giving the House of Lords a more democratic mandate might somehow undermine the primacy of this House. I have never believed in the one-dimensional view of the relationship between the two Houses, in which if one Chamber gains in authority, the other must lose. That point was made by my hon. Friend the Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (John Thurso)—the only Member, incidentally, who has experience of both Houses. I have always believed that a reformed, more accountable second Chamber will strengthen Parliament as a whole. As the Wakeham report concluded:

“Our ambition for the reformed second chamber is that it should enhance the overall ability of Parliament as a whole to hold the Government to account. It should do this by using its particular strengths to develop arrangements which complement and reinforce those of the House of Commons.”

Most of the time, the Commons and the Lords are not rivals, but partners in holding the Government to account. I would argue that over the past 10 years, the House of Lords has gained in authority, not at the expense of this House, but at the expense of the Executive. I would further argue that if the legitimacy of the House of Lords were to be enhanced by the injection of some democracy, its authority would be further enhanced, not to the detriment of the Commons, but better empowering Parliament as a whole to do its job. Those who believe in a stronger Parliament should welcome, not obstruct, a more effective second Chamber.

[Mr Spellar]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Sir George Young]

I commend the right hon. Gentleman on his persistence, which is now rewarded.

[Mr Spellar]

I thank the Leader of the House for his usual courteous generosity. He claimed that what he says follows a long line of Conservative tradition, so can he explain why there is not a single Conservative Cabinet member on the Front Bench to support him?

[Sir George Young]

I now regret giving way to the right hon. Gentleman, because I am sure that there are other Members who would have made a more worthwhile point if they had intervened. Looking around, I see a large number of colleagues behind me, and I have all the support that I need.

On primacy, the fact is that Members of this House are all elected on the same day, on the basis of a party manifesto. We are elected to the pre-eminent House in Parliament—pre-eminent because it sustains the Executive, controls supply, and produces the Prime Minister. We submit ourselves for re-election, which is when the country gives a verdict on our performance. None of those conditions would apply to the second Chamber as proposed in the Bill. Elected Members would not be elected all at the same time, but over a longer period—a move supported by the Joint Committee on the draft House of Lords Reform Bill. The other place would have no mandate to rival the mandate of those in this House; indeed, some Members of the other place would be not elected, but appointed. The notion that they could somehow convert themselves into an equally legitimate Chamber that could challenge the authority of this House is simply far-fetched.

[Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend give way?

[Sir George Young]

No, I am pressing on. Nothing in the Government’s Bill changes the current status of the second Chamber, which is clearly defined as complementary and subordinate to this House. Its only powers are those given to it by this House, which remains pre-eminent. The second Chamber would simply not be able—even if it wanted to—unilaterally to change its powers after reform, any more than it can now.

Another misconception relates to the Government’s preferred electoral system for the second Chamber. An assumption has arisen that, somehow, Members of the upper House who are elected on party lists will have been parachuted in by the party leadership. I say as delicately as I can that this has not been my party’s experience with Members of the European Parliament, some of whom have proved robustly independent in their opinions, and in expressing them, and were certainly not the preferred candidates of the leadership. Indeed, this argument ignores totally the democratic hoops through which candidates must jump before being selected: primaries, public meetings, and the scrutiny to which people seeking election are properly subjected.

Whereas there is a closed list in the European Parliament, we propose a semi-open list, so voters can overturn the order predetermined by parties. Ultimately, colleagues who have an issue with the Government’s proposals will want to analyse and probe them in Committee, but I do not believe that the list system will have the consequences that some have suggested.

[Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend mentioned elected Members of the European Parliament. Does he not agree that just because another elected Member has one’s constituency as part of their region, it does not mean to say that they are interfering in one’s work all the time? No MEP has ever interfered with my work.

[Sir George Young]

And how very wise Members of the European Parliament are not to interfere in my hon. Friend’s constituency.

I turn finally to the issue of the progress that we have sought to make with the Government’s legislative programme, and with the Bill in particular. The Deputy Prime Minister established and chaired a cross-party Committee to develop policy and explore the contentious issues. There was a five-hour debate once the White Paper and draft Bill were published in 2011. There has been more than 22 hours of debate on the subject in the upper House since the beginning of the year.

[Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman give way?

[Sir George Young]

For the last time.

[Wayne David]

As the Government now accept that there is a need for consensus on the issue, will the Leader of the House give a commitment to open meaningful dialogue immediately with the Oppositioning?

[Sir George Young]

The hon. Gentleman almost tests my patience. We are always open to discussion through the usual channels on issues such as this. I have to say gently to him that before we had even tabled the programme motion, the Labour Opposition said that they would vote against it. That did not indicate the sort of consensual interchange of ideas that the hon. Gentleman has just invited me to engage in.

We established a Joint Committee to consider the draft Bill. That Joint Committee held evidence sessions on 16 separate days—approximately 48 hours of parliamentary time—with the Minister giving evidence on four separate occasions. After the Joint Committee had concluded, we responded to it and we have amended the Bill before the House in the light of its recommendations.

As I confirmed to the House at the beginning, the Government will not proceed this evening with the programme motion. I want sufficient time to debate and vote on these issues, but I also want sufficient time for the House to scrutinise other important Bills in our legislative programme—major reforms to the banks, public service pensions, electricity markets, adoption and support for children with special needs, the state pension, the creation of a national crime agency, and the rest. Some substantial constitutional measures have passed through Parliament in the past two years—on fixed-term Parliaments, the referendum on the alternative vote, reducing the size of the Commons and the referendum lock on powers to Europe—yet the coalition also pressed ahead with sweeping reforms to public services and getting on top of the deficit.

I know that a number of my colleagues on the Government Benches have objections in principle to what is in the Bill, and I listened to them with respect yesterday. They are likely to register their objections on Second Reading. But if the House gives the Bill a Second Reading, I hope they will respect that decision and the need to make progress with others measures in our programme for the current Session.

I hope that Back Benchers on both sides of the House will see the Bill for what it is: a serious attempt at long last to strengthen Parliament’s ability to hold the Government to account, which will raise the game of the Executive and empower the individual citizen. I commend the Bill to the House.

Local Services (Planning)

Lord Young of Cookham Excerpts

Tuesday 10th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I do not think that Standing Order No. 63 applies in this case, given that the programme motion has been tabled. I am happy to take further advice on the matter, and to consider whether the hon. Gentleman’s point is valid—

[The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Young)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

—but help may be at hand, both for the hon. Gentleman and the House, courtesy of its Leader.

I beg the right hon. Gentleman’s pardon. I thought that he was seeking to respond to the point of order, but no. However, we shall hear from him very soon.

Let me simply say that Members take a huge interest in the debate on Second Reading of the Lords Reform Bill. Almost 90 right hon. and hon. Members have applied to speak, and that fact is reflected in the six-minute time limit. Obviously, there is no time limit on Front-Bench speeches, but I am sure that Front Benchers will tailor their contributions accordingly. I also ask Members please not to come to the Chair inquiring whether, and if so when, they will be called. We will do our best to accommodate as many of them as possible.

Business of the House

Lord Young of Cookham Excerpts

Thursday 5th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab)]

Will the Leader of the House give us the business for next week?

[The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Young)]

The business for next week is as follows:

Monday 9 July—Second Reading of the House of Lords Reform Bill (day 1).

Tuesday 10 July—Conclusion of Second Reading of the House of Lords Reform Bill (day 2).

Wednesday 11 July—Debate on motions relating to the sitting hours of the House of Commons, followed by a debate on a motion relating to VAT on air ambulance fuel payments. The subjects for these debates have been nominated by the Backbench Business Committee. Followed by opposed private business for consideration, as named by the Chairman of Ways and Means.

Thursday 12 July—Motion relating to the reform of the Court of Justice of the European Union, followed by a motion on a European document relating to the EU draft budget, followed by a motion on a European document relating to EU human rights strategy.

Friday 13 July—Private Member’s Bills.

The provisional business for the week commencing 16 July will include:



Monday 16 July—Opposition day (4th allotted day). There will be a debate on an Opposition motion. Subject to be announced.

Tuesday 17 July—Debate on a motion relating to the Public Administration Committee’s recommendation for the Prime Minister’s adviser on Ministers’ interests to be empowered to instigate his own investigations, followed by a motion on the summer recess Adjournment. The subjects for these debates have been nominated by the Backbench Business Committee.

I should also like to inform the House that the business in Westminster Hall for 12 July will be:

Thursday 12 July—Debate on banking competition.

[Ms Eagle]

I thank the Leader of the House for announcing next week’s business.

Last week I suggested to the right hon. Gentleman that, as Liberal Democrats and Conservative Ministers now spend their time rubbishing each other, it might be better if future parliamentary business were organised so that Government time was divided between the two parties to give both sufficient time to differentiate themselves from each other. I am delighted to see that the Leader of the House has quickly adopted my suggestion, because in announcing two days of debate on House of Lords reform next week, he omitted to draw the House’s attention to the fact that Government time had been so arranged to allow Liberal Democrat Ministers to speak on Monday and Conservative Ministers to speak on Tuesday. It will be interesting to monitor the differences of approach from one day to the next. Will the Leader of the House confirm that in future all Government business will be organised in this way?

We have learnt this week that Network Rail, a publicly funded body, is planning to pay millions in bonuses to senior managers. Government decisions mean that rail passengers are facing fare rises of 11% a year at a time when people are struggling to make ends meet. It is simply unacceptable for Network Rail to pay out millions in bonuses to its top managers. Six months ago the Transport Secretary promised to appoint a public interest director, yet she has failed to do so. The Transport Secretary has the power to stop Network Rail bosses paying themselves massive bonuses at their annual general meeting on 19 July. Will the Leader of the House confirm that the Government will block Network Rail’s plans, and arrange for the Transport Secretary to make an urgent statement to the House?

The Government have set up an independent inquiry into forests. That was done after 500,000 people signed a petition objecting to the Government’s proposal to flog off England’s forests to the highest bidders. The Government’s U-turn on the issue started a trend; they have been U-turning ever since. The inquiry report was published yesterday. Will the Leader of the House confirm that the Government have now dropped their plans to sell off 15% of English forests, and will he say when they will instead set out plans to protect and secure the future of our forests? Will he also arrange for the Environment Secretary to make an oral statement on the Government’s response to the independent inquiry?

The Government ask a bishop to hold an independent inquiry into the future of forests, but refuse to have an independent inquiry into the banking scandal. On Monday, the Government were against holding any inquiry; then they were in favour of a parliamentary inquiry, but against a parliamentary vote; then they were in favour of a parliamentary inquiry and a parliamentary vote, but still against an independent judicial inquiry. The Government have had three different positions in three days. May I urge the right hon. Gentleman to adopt a fourth? The British people want an independent judge-led inquiry, and all the Opposition parties want an independent judge-led inquiry. In fact, the only people opposing an independent judge-led inquiry are Government Members of Parliament and bankers themselves.

Something else the bankers wanted was for the Vickers report to be watered down, which is exactly what the Government have done. On Tuesday, Martin Wolf, the Financial Times economist and a member of the Vickers commission, described the Government’s decision not to implement the recommendation on high-risk derivative trading as “really quite serious”. Will the Leader of the House explain why the Government are watering down the Vickers commission recommendations, and arrange an urgent statement on this matter from the Chancellor?

May I congratulate the Leader of the House on his sterling performance in the recent ConservativeHome league table of Cabinet Ministers? The right hon. Gentleman has surged up the rankings. [Interruption.] Much to his surprise—perhaps he does not follow it—but he has. Conservative Members have put the Leader of the House in the premier league of Cabinet Ministers. However, the part-time partisan Chancellor, who has presided over a double-dip recession, has slumped into the third division. Does the Leader of the House have any tips on how the Chancellor can raise his game?

[Sir George Young]

On the first issue, these two parties are working together harmoniously to repair the damage done by the Labour party. In the debate on the House of Lords on Monday and Tuesday, there will be a seamless approach to the legislation from those who are opening and closing the debates on the first and second day. I remind Labour Members what their policy was when they were in government, and I hope, therefore, that they will support the Government on Monday and Tuesday, both on the motion on Second Reading and indeed on the programme motion. Through the latter, we propose to allocate 10 days in Committee, which contrasts with the four days they allocated on their Lords reform Bill.

The extraordinary corporate governance structure for Network Rail was actually set up by Labour; they are responsible for the decision-making process. We propose to reform it, and I will pass on the hon. Lady’s suggestion about the bonuses to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport.

So far as the forests are concerned, the hon. Lady will have seen the written ministerial statement from my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs. The joke that we just heard from the hon. Lady was the same one we heard in DEFRA questions a few moments ago; I am sure she told it better. The initial response was set out in the written ministerial statement, and there will be a more substantive one next January. We have confirmed that the forests will remain in public ownership.

On the issue of a public inquiry, we are going to debate that. If the hon. Lady is asking for a debate on this issue, I have granted it, and very quickly. Our view, which will be set out later, is that any Committee should have the power to interview witnesses under oath; it should have the power to send for the necessary people; it should sit in public and have full access to the necessary documents and papers. We believe that a Joint Committee of the House will be able to discharge its responsibilities, and we will move on to that debate in a moment.

We have not watered down the Vickers report. We are introducing a banking reform Bill, and in due course the House will have an opportunity to consider our proposals to separate the retail and investment wings of the banks.

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for bringing to my attention something I had not noticed before—the league table. One thing that is almost certain after her endorsement is that, next time, my position will be a lot lower.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend allow time for a debate on the health and social care White Paper and its implications for community hospitals?

[Sir George Young]

My hon. Friend raises a key issue. We hope to publish very shortly the White Paper on social care together with a progress report on funding. I hope that when we do that, there may be an opportunity for a debate either at that time or subsequently. The issue needs to be addressed as soon as possible, and I think that Members on both sides of the House would welcome a debate on the future regime for social care along the lines my hon. Friend suggests.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does the Leader of the House realise just how angry Yorkshire Members of Parliament from all parties are about the announcement that the Leeds children’s heart unit will close? There has been a vigorous campaign—the hardest fought that I have ever known in this House—and we have been ignored. Yorkshire has been downgraded in terms of this very important service for children.

[Sir George Young]

Of course I understand the concern of Yorkshire Members at the outcome of the independent review, which was established by the previous Government at arm’s length from Ministers and has now reported. The key motivation was to drive up outcomes for children who suffer from congenital heart disease. There was powerful evidence that the more operations a surgeon performs, the better the performance, which improves the outcome for children. The review has been supported by the royal colleges as well as national charities. Although I understand what the hon. Gentleman has said, I think that the prime objective for us all ought to be to improve the outcomes for children who suffer from this serious disease.

[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

More and more decisions both nationally and locally are being taken by unaccountable officials acting in a quasi-judicial role, leaving elected representatives powerless to influence them. Can the Leader of the House find time for a debate to discuss that growing trend and how it can be reversed?

[Sir George Young]

My hon. Friend will have noticed that in the first Session of this Parliament, we introduced the Public Bodies Bill, which abolished a number of public bodies and repatriated to Ministers powers that had previously been devolved. I hope that he recognises that. The responsibility for the budget of non-departmental public bodies rests with Ministers, and although their day-to-day running has been delegated, the overall efficiency of the organisations remains a matter for Ministers. There will still be opportunities for him to hold NDPBs to account through the responsible Minister.

[Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) (Lab)]

We understood the need to move the Back-Bench business scheduled for today to make way for the important banking debate that is to be held this afternoon. As the Leader of the House has announced, we have now found slots for the displaced business by cutting it down quite finely, and that would not have been possible without the understanding and co-operation of all lead Members and participating Members. I want to put on the record my thanks for that co-operation.

The Government have placed on the Order Paper for tonight a business motion that will make room for the air ambulance debate on Wednesday 11 July after the debate on sitting hours, and I thank them for doing that. I hope that the House will be co-operative in ensuring that the business motion is agreed to. I know that the Leader of the House cannot provide a guarantee, but will he try to ensure that there are no statements, if possible, on either 11 July or 17 July, the last day of the term, so that we can ensure that Back-Bench business is not further curtailed?

While I am here, the deadline for submissions for the pre-recess Adjournment debate is Monday at 11 am in the Table Office. Thank you for your patience, Mr Speaker.

[Sir George Young]

I am very grateful to the hon. Lady and the Backbench Business Committee for responding to the inconvenience that has been caused to them by today’s urgent debate, and I am glad that she has been able to find time for the two debates that were displaced. I shall use my best endeavours to avoid statements on those two days, but I cannot give a cast-iron guarantee. The business motion on today’s Order Paper will safeguard two hours for the sitting hours debate on Wednesday and guarantee that the rest of the time until 7 o’clock is available for the air ambulance debate. I hope that the House will smile on that motion and let it through without any controversy. I also welcome the public service announcement that she has just made, reminding people to make submissions in respect of the pre-recess Adjournment.

[Karen Lumley (Redditch) (Con)]

More than 18,000 people have signed a petition in Redditch against the possible closure of our accident and emergency department. Will the Leader of the House secure time for a debate on health issues in Worcestershire?

[Sir George Young]

I understand my hon. Friend’s concern about the future of the Alexandra hospital in her constituency. In the first instance, this would be a matter for the local NHS, as any reconfiguration should be driven by local commissioners. She will know that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health has set out safeguards—conditions that must be fulfilled before any reconfiguration can go ahead. It must be supported by local GP commissioners; demonstrate strengthened public and patient engagement; show clarity on the clinical evidence base; and be consistent with current and prospective patient choice. In the first instance, I suggest that my hon. Friend engage with the local NHS and share her concerns with it.

[Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)]

The decision to close the Leeds children’s heart unit appears to disregard patient choice, and fails the four criteria for the reconfiguration of services set out by the Secretary of State for Health. Will the Leader of the House arrange for a statement by the Secretary of State on whether he will refer the decision to the independent reconfiguration panel?

[Sir George Young]

I cannot promise an early statement from my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health. He was at the Dispatch Box yesterday, dealing with NHS issues. I understand the concern of Yorkshire Members about the decision—of course I do—and I wonder whether it might be an appropriate subject for a debate between now and the summer recess, either on the Floor of the House on the Adjournment or in Westminster Hall.

[Mr John Leech (Manchester, Withington) (LD)]

The Leader of the House may be aware of the campaign for an apology for the victims of forced adoption in the 1950s, ’60s and ’70s, and early-day motion 92, which is currently the 16th most popular EDM of this Session.

[That this House recognises the suffering that forced child adoptions during the 1950s, 1960s and 1970s caused, which took place due to social pressures on women who had children outside of marriage; notes the unacceptable adoption and care practices of the past, such as not giving information about welfare services including housing and financial help which were available at the time and not questioning whether women putting their children up for adoption had given informed consent; further recognises the negligence of previous Governments, with regard to ensuring that the care provided for unmarried mothers was appropriate and that they and their children were not mistreated or discriminated against, resulting in many women suffering traumatising pre and post-natal experiences and children being denied contact with their birth parents; and calls on the Government to apologise in order to go some way toward helping the parents and children who were victims of these practices.]

Will the Leader of the House find time for a debate on whether the UK should follow Australia’s lead and issue an apology to victims of this terrible injustice?

[Sir George Young]

I understand my hon. Friend’s concern, and I will share that with the appropriate Minister. As for a debate, the hon. Member for North East Derbyshire (Natascha Engel), who chairs the Backbench Business Committee, has issued an invitation for bids for the pre-recess Adjournment debate, and it strikes me that my hon. Friend’s suggestion would be eminently suitable.

[Graeme Morrice (Livingston) (Lab)]

In view of the failure of the Secretary of State for Defence to meet the trade unions in the Ministry of Defence on the issue of cuts and increased privatisation in the civilian side of the service, will the Leader of the House ask the Secretary of State to hold a debate in the Chamber on this matter and also use his good offices to encourage him to hold an urgent meeting with a delegation from the PCS parliamentary group?

[Sir George Young]

There will be questions to the Ministry of Defence on Monday 16 July, but my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State will be at the Dispatch Box very shortly, and there may be an opportunity for the hon. Gentleman to put that question to him.

[Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend convey my thanks to the Backbench Business Committee for making an accommodation to make sure that the motion on the Prime Minister’s adviser on ministerial interests is dealt with before the end of term? I would like to record my thanks to my right hon. Friend for generously accommodating and showing his commitment to Back-Bench time. May I therefore make a further request about Monday’s business? Will he table a motion to lift the 10 o’clock rule, because it would be a travesty if that debate was so over-subscribed that speeches were truncated? I remind him that Second Reading of the Bill on the Maastricht treaty was spread over two days and went significantly into the night, providing the opportunity for a great many more Members to participate.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir George Young]

On the first point, I used to work for Royal Mail before I became a Member of Parliament, so I am delighted to act as a postman between my hon. Friend and the Chair of the Backbench Business Committee, and relay that message. The Government’s view on my hon. Friend’s second point is that a two-day debate on Second Reading is relatively unusual. I can recall only two such occasions in my time in the House, and I believe that a two-day debate on Second Reading, followed by 10 days in Committee and two days on Report, gives the House adequate time to debate that important issue.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

Further to the welcome commitment the Prime Minister gave yesterday in Question Time to discuss with the Chancellor the Ulster bank crisis and the role of Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, can we have an update next week, by way of a statement to the House, about progress on that issue and about the Ulster bank crisis generally, which it is now believed will continue until 16 July? For a full month, people will have been denied access to normal banking facilities, affecting both businesses and individuals.

[Sir George Young]

I share the right hon. Gentleman’s concern, and I will inquire of the Chancellor whether a written ministerial statement on progress would be appropriate, or if that is not the right way forward, whether a letter can be sent to the right hon. Gentleman and his hon. Friends who represent Northern Ireland constituencies to bring them up to date on progress in safeguarding the interests of the customers of those banks.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

Jaguar Land Rover in Castle Bromwich has expanded its plant with a further investment of £200 million, which offers great opportunities to skilled workers in Tamworth, so can we have a debate on what further steps the Government will take to improve skills for young people and school leavers so that they can take full advantage of this opportunity?

[Sir George Young]

The whole House will welcome the good news of a £200 million investment in the Castle Bromwich plant to which my hon. Friend referred. The short answer to his question is the increased expansion of apprenticeships, which is the largest expansion that the country has ever seen: 457,200 starts last year, and another 400,000 this year. I hope that that gives him the answer that he is looking for, as it demonstrates a real commitment to training people to take advantage of this investment.

[Mr Dave Watts (St Helens North) (Lab)]

May we have a statement from the Secretary of State for Justice to explain why it is possible for someone to defraud the taxman of more than £400,000 but merely be given a fine?

[Sir George Young]

There were Justice questions on Tuesday, but having listened to the hon. Gentleman’s question I wonder whether it is more appropriate for the Treasury than the Ministry of Justice, if it relates to a fine for the non-payment of tax. Of course, I will relay the issue to my right hon. Friend the Chancellor and ask him to write to the hon. Gentleman with a response to his question.

[Gareth Johnson (Dartford) (Con)]

In my constituency of Dartford, we have seen a near-eightfold increase in the number of apprenticeship places in the past two years, which has helped to reduce unemployment in Dartford. Can we have a debate on the merits of apprenticeships and how they can boost our economy?

[Sir George Young]

I applaud what my hon. Friend says, and I also applaud the e-mail that I believe was sent to every Member by David Way giving a link to those in our constituencies who want to become apprentices as well as a link for firms that want to offer work to apprentices. It is up to every Member of the House to make sure that that information is available so that the funds that the Government have put at the disposal of the apprenticeship scheme can be taken up locally.

[Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East) (Lab)]

I thank the Leader of the House for his helpful replies to my hon. Friends the Members for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) and for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin) on the closure of the Leeds children’s heart surgery unit. I do not know whether the right hon. Gentleman is aware that more than 600,000 people in Yorkshire signed a petition to prevent the closure, and that the criteria used to make the decision by the Safe and Sustainable review were deeply flawed and did not take into account the post-16 congenital heart defect work that is done so well in the city of Leeds and the Leeds unit. Will he therefore grant time for a debate?

[Sir George Young]

The whole House has now realised the depth of concern on the part of Yorkshire Members about the decision that was announced earlier this week. If there is a petition of 600,000 signatures, that would go through the threshold to trigger a reference to the Backbench Business Committee, which would then have to find time for a debate. In the meantime, I will relay to my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health the points that the hon. Gentleman has made about alleged deficiencies in the review, and see whether there is any role for him to play in that respect.

[Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con)]

Last month, I had a young lad called Seb from Holmfirth on work experience with me. Seb has had three major heart operations, and a pacemaker fitted at Leeds children’s heart unit. Most of my constituents and I are absolutely appalled at the decision to close Yorkshire’s only children’s heart surgery unit, as are many other Yorkshire Members—and, indeed, Lincolnshire Members. Patient flows and parent journeys have not been given due consideration in the decision. Yet again, may I ask for an urgent debate on this pressing issue?

[Sir George Young]

My hon. Friend has confirmed that concern about the decision crosses the Floor of the House, and it is a matter for all Yorkshire Members. I repeat what I said at the beginning of business questions: this was an independent review, conducted at arm’s length from Ministers and endorsed by the Royal College of Surgeons and by charities with an interest in this field. I cannot promise an early debate in Government time, but I say to my hon. Friend and others who have intervened that I recognise their concern, and I hope that in some way it might be possible to raise these issues on the Floor of the House, given the depth of that concern.

[Paul Blomfield (Sheffield Central) (Lab)]

Within minutes of the decision to close the Leeds children’s heart surgery unit being announced, I was contacted by a constituent who has depended on the service provided. As is becoming clear, this issue not only affects the whole region, but unites the whole House, so will the Leader of the House consider again the need for a ministerial statement?

[Sir George Young]

As I said a moment ago, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health was at the Dispatch Box yesterday dealing with NHS matters, although I appreciate that that might have been before the decision was announced. I cannot promise an early statement from my right hon. Friend, but I will leave him in no doubt about the depth of feeling on the issue on both sides of the House when we next meet.

[Glyn Davies (Montgomeryshire) (Con)]

A High Court judge recently ruled that a young Welsh anorexia sufferer should be force-fed, a case that can be interpreted as allowing force-feeding to become a standard treatment for all anorexia sufferers. Can the Leader of the House arrange for a written statement to clarify the Government’s position on this most sensitive area?

[Sir George Young]

The Government take very seriously the problem of eating disorders, which particularly affect those between the ages of 15 and 24. Speaking from memory, I think that more than 1 million people in the UK suffer from eating disorders and anorexia. Speaking from memory again, I think that there is a pathway of treatment that has been prescribed, and those dealing with people suffering from anorexia should follow those guidelines. I will see whether there is any lack of clarity, particularly with regard to force-feeding, and ask my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health to write to my hon. Friend.

[Liz Kendall (Leicester West) (Lab)]

May I reinforce calls for a full and proper debate on the future of children’s heart surgery? Yesterday’s decision to close services at Glenfield hospital in my constituency has come as a devastating blow to patients, families and staff. They have serious questions about how and why the decision was made and the impact it will have on the local and national services the unit provides. A debate would allow those questions to be asked and answered. At present, there is no other way of doing that.

[Sir George Young]

Again, I recognise the depth of concern. I have announced an Opposition day for Monday week and it would be perfectly appropriate for the Opposition, if they so wanted, to choose this as the subject for debate. The Government provide time for Government legislation but do not normally have time available for debates of this nature.

[Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con)]

The decision was not made by Ministers, but the closure of the Leeds children’s heart surgery unit leaves the north with only two children’s heart hospitals. It is really important that we have a debate on the decision and the knock-on effect on cardiology services for adults and other members of the community.

[Sir George Young]

Again, I understand my hon. Friend’s concern. The review was not about closing heart services for children; it was about driving up quality and improving chances of survival. The independent review panel decided that concentrating these operations in a smaller number of hospitals will increase the skill of the surgeons and improve outcomes. That is the background. I understand the concern, expressed by many hon. Members, about the consequences and take the point that they would like time for a debate. I cannot promise one in Government time, but I have indicated a number of options, including having a debate in Westminster Hall, going to the Backbench Business Committee and debating the matter as part of the Opposition day debate on Monday week or, indeed, in the pre-recess Adjournment debate.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

Tomorrow we return to private Member’s Bills, the first of which is highly relevant in the light of the events of the past week. It relates to the parliamentary role in the appointment of a new Governor of the Bank of England. I hear that the Government are organising for their Back Benchers to talk the Bill out, which means we will again experience the puerile antics that have brought the House into disrepute. What progress has been made on the proposals to debate private Member’s Bills earlier in the week or allow them to be subject to deferred Divisions?

[Sir George Young]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his good fortune in the ballot for private Member’s Bills. I have no idea what will happen tomorrow, so he will have to await the Minister’s response. It may well be that Conservative Back Benchers are very interested in his Bill, and rightly so. On his last point, the Backbench Business Committee has announced that it wants to have a separate inquiry into the regime for private Member’s Bills, and I am sure that it would be interested in taking evidence from the hon. Gentleman.

[Tessa Munt (Wells) (LD)]

The Leader of the House will know that section 2 of the Protection from Harassment Act 1997 prevents the police from taking any action against a perpetrator of harassment without violence or violent intent if it took place more than six months previously. Will he find time for a debate to protect those people, such as a constituent of mine, who have been subjected to a sustained campaign of harassment on the internet and by mobile phone? The six-month threshold should be changed.

[Sir George Young]

I understand my hon. Friend’s concern. The Government have put forward some proposals that deal with antisocial behaviour, and the behaviour she outlines certainly strikes me as antisocial. When appropriate legislation is brought forward to deal with this, there might an opportunity to close any loopholes that exist.

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

We heard a statement yesterday from the Health Secretary in which he talked about steady progress in the NHS, but I draw the attention of the Leader of the House to the funding guidelines for public health, which mean that my region will lose £53 million and my local authority, Durham county council, will lose £20 million. I know that that is in line with the Government’s policy of moving resources from poor areas to rich ones, but may we have an urgent statement or debate on the gerrymandering of public health funding?

[Sir George Young]

I resist any accusations of gerrymandering. As the hon. Gentleman knows, the Government have transferred responsibility for public health from the NHS to local authorities, which I think is a perfectly progressive move, and one that has been welcomed by local authorities. The money has been redistributed in what I regard as a fair way. I will certainly raise with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Health the hon. Gentleman’s concern that his region has somehow been short-changed, but I hope that the hon. Gentleman will endorse the principle of transferring responsibility and linking it with social care, housing and other responsibilities discharged by local authorities.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

May we have a debate on the value for money the UK receives from the European Investment Bank in the light of the fact that we are being asked to contribute yet another £1 billion to it?

[Sir George Young]

If my hon. Friend is very ingenious, he might be able to raise his point during next Thursday’s debate on an EU motion relating to the EU budget. We would expect the UK to benefit significantly from any additional EIB lending of the sort he refers to, and it is of course important that all member states get their fair share of lending.

[Jim Sheridan (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (Lab)]

May we have a debate on the delivery of London bus services? Last night, not for the first time, I and a number of other travelling passengers were invited to leave a bus and stand on the pavement because the driver had been instructed by his manager to turn the bus around before it reached its destination and return to its original point of departure. Those people were left abandoned on the street without any compensation and had to pay an extra fare. Is that really how we are going to treat residents and visitors to London during the Olympics?

[Sir George Young]

I am sorry that the hon. Gentleman and his fellow passengers were inconvenienced in that way. If he will let me have the relevant details, I will certainly pursue the matter with the Mayor of London.

[Mark Lancaster (Milton Keynes North) (Con)]

May we have a debate on renewable energy and the apparent contradiction between the document “Planning for Renewable Energy” and the national planning policy framework? The Government have accepted, in answer to a written question on 3 July, that there is a contradiction between those documents and a review is under way, but it is causing great confusion for local authorities up and down the land, so can we have the guidance issued promptly?

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir George Young]

I will share my hon. Friend’s concern with Ministers at the Department of Energy and Climate Change, who will be at the Dispatch Box a week from today. If he is successful, he might be able to raise the matter during topical questions. I will arrange for a response to be available dealing with the alleged inconsistency to which he refers.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

After debates in the Dutch and Canadian Parliaments, those countries withdrew their troops from Afghanistan after great sacrifices in blood and treasure. Should not we in this House answer public opinion, which is strongly in favour of bringing our troops home, adopt a policy of independence from the United States and ensure that our troops are no longer at risk in this increasingly dangerous war?

[Sir George Young]

As the hon. Gentleman knows, there is a commitment to bring our troops home, and it has been put on the record. We are committed to making regular quarterly statements on Afghanistan, and when the next one is due he will have an opportunity to make his case, but the view of the House, as expressed in earlier debates, is that we should rightly honour our commitment, stay with our fellow countries in Afghanistan and give that country the opportunity to build up its police force and armed services so that it can restore law and order on its own.

[Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con)]

I recently met a very courageous 11-year-old constituent, Katie Pole, who is dealing admirably with the results of type 1 diabetes. Will consideration be given to holding a debate about that condition in terms of raising awareness and in terms of further medical research to resolve it?

[Sir George Young]

I think that the right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz), who chairs the Home Affairs Committee, recently had a debate in the Chamber about diabetes, and some issues that my hon. Friend raises may have been raised then. I refer him to the public service announcement, made by the Chair of the Backbench Business Committee, that there may be an opportunity before the House rises on Tuesday week to have a further debate about that important illness.

[Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab)]

Two days ago, when the Leader of the House announced today’s business, he was unable to assure me that the Back-Bench Business which had to be abandoned would be rescheduled, so I warmly welcome his decision after listening to representations from me and the Chair of the Backbench Business Committee to reschedule the air ambulance debate.

The right hon. Gentleman shows that he listens, and I share the view of other Yorkshire and north Lincolnshire Members that the decision to close the local children’s heart surgery unit is wrong. He has heard those representations, so will he return next week and during his response to business questions advise the House of a time, whether Government, Back-Bench or some other, when we can have that debate, which the House clearly wants and needs?

[Sir George Young]

I am grateful for what the hon. Gentleman said in the earlier part of his question. Between now and next Thursday, I should like to touch base with the Chair of the Backbench Business Committee, with the Opposition and with business managers to see whether there is any way in which we can respond to the very strong demand from Members on both sides for a debate about the recent decision on children’s services.

[Karen Bradley (Staffordshire Moorlands) (Con)]

The Stanley Head outdoor education centre, located in my constituency but owned by Stoke-on-Trent council, faces closure. A number of my constituents would like to take on the centre and run it as a community asset, and they have the support of Staffordshire county council and other interested parties, but so far they have not been successful. Will the Leader of the House find time for a debate about community assets, and about residents taking over their ownership to keep them going for the people who use them?

[Sir George Young]

It is, indeed, one of the policies of the coalition Government to enable community groups to take over and run public services when they are threatened with closure. I should like to raise my hon. Friend’s case with my Cabinet Office colleagues, who have responsibility for the policy, in order to see whether there is a way through which enables these services to continue, run by the community group that she mentions.

[Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)]

May we have an urgent debate about how to access funds for zebra crossings, a matter that was raised at Prime Minister’s questions yesterday? On Darlaston road in the Pleck ward of my constituency, a four-year-old boy was knocked down and a woman suffered broken bones on its crossing, but both central and local government cannot find the £30,000 required to upgrade it to a signal-controlled one. We need to do something before there is a death on the crossing.

[Sir George Young]

I am sure that the hon. Lady has raised the matter with the newly elected mayor of Leicester, who has responsibility for the transport budget—[Hon. Members: “Walsall!”] Walsall, sorry. I will raise the matter with the appropriate authorities and see whether there is any way in which we can make progress on that important crossing.

[Mr Speaker]

As far as I am aware, the hon. Lady bears no obvious resemblance to her brother!

[Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con)]

Yesterday, I spent seven hours sitting in a meeting, carefully listening to the decision from the Safe and Sustainable review of children’s heart units. There was a clear disregard for a fundamental principle of the NHS constitution, namely patient choice, as it was said that patients would be managed to use the Newcastle hospital and Lincolnshire patients were barely mentioned at all. In addition, the review goes against the Secretary of State’s recently stated four principles for the reconfiguration of services. This is a fundamentally important issue to many of our constituents, so please may I urge my right hon. Friend to ensure that, at the very least, the Secretary of State gives a statement to the House?

[Sir George Young]

Again, I recognise the strength of feeling, which has been added to by my hon. Friend, whose concern I recognise also. I am not sure that I can usefully add to what I said a moment ago, except to say that I do recognise the strength of feeling on the issue and will try, between now and next Thursday, to find a way through so that we might provide an avenue for a discussion on this important matter.

[Mr Denis MacShane (Rotherham) (Lab)]

When my son was a tiny tot, I took him to Leeds children’s hospital, but now my constituents will go to London because it is easier than going to Newcastle—on the recommendation of Sir Ian Kennedy, whose care for families and parents spending time with their children is well known to this House. It is a recommendation, but the decision is that of the Secretary of State, and “suffer the little children of Yorkshire to suffer” is not something that the NHS should support. This Government have the reputation of being a Government of the south, by the south, for the south. We do not want a debate; we want a decision to reject this recommendation and to keep the hospital open.

[Sir George Young]

I am sorry that the right hon. Gentleman uses the words that he does. All the physicians who carry out the operations will, of course, remain in post; what we are talking about is where they carry them out. I cannot add to what I have said on several occasions in response to earlier questions, but I will do my best to find an avenue for a debate about this important issue.

[Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD)]

If on Tuesday it is the will of this House that the Committee stage of the House of Lords Reform Bill should potentially be without end, where will the Leader of the House look to secure additional sitting days in order to protect Government and other House business?

[Sir George Young]

The Leader of the House is not contemplating that eventuality; I am confident that, on reflection and having listened to the debate, the House will want to agree to the programme motion on the Order Paper.

[Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab)]

In the light of what has already been said about Leeds, will the Leader of the House find time for a debate about the quality of decision making in the NHS? Yesterday my local NHS considered a report on removing vascular services from Warrington, based on flawed evidence and dated “June”, although the consultation closed only on 5 June, and it refuses to announce its decision. Yet, the Prime Minister said yesterday that

“changes should not go ahead unless there is proper listening to local clinicians and local people.” —[Official Report, 4 July 2012; Vol. 547, c. 913.]

When are we going to get that listening exercise, instead of managers taking flawed decisions and refusing to look properly at the evidence?

[Sir George Young]

We have moved away from a system in which decisions are taken by managers to a process that is more clinically based; that is what local commissioning is all about. I will raise with my right hon. Friend the Health Secretary the particular concern that the hon. Lady mentions and ask him to write to her.

[Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)]

I welcome my right hon. Friend’s clear willingness to try to secure a solution and find time to debate the appalling decision not to designate Leeds as a children’s heart centre, but does he agree with the principle that, before the Secretary of State decides to ratify or not that particular decision, a debate in the House is absolutely crucial in order for him to listen to the arguments for retaining Leeds?

[Sir George Young]

Again, I recognise the force of my hon. Friend’s argument that there should be some opportunity for the House to debate and, if possible, to take a view on that particular decision. I cannot promise an early debate in Government time, but as I have said repeatedly I recognise the strength of feeling on this and will do my best to see whether we can find some time to debate it in the not too distant future.

[Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab)]

Newcastle city council is just one authority dealing heroically with the aftermath of last week’s floods. With further flood warnings issued for this weekend, and with little reassurance provided in Environment, Food and Rural Affairs questions this morning on any financial assistance from the Government or on any progress on the flood insurance deal, will the Government make time for a debate about the economic impact of flooding?

[Sir George Young]

The hon. Lady will know of the Bellwin formula, which extends Government help to local authorities that are confronted with significant problems as a result of things such as flooding. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs was in Gateshead recently, and she was at this Dispatch Box a few moments ago answering questions about flooding and other issues, but I will ask her to write to the hon. Lady about the specific matter that she raises.

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

There is clear evidence of market abuse, manipulation, price fixing and mis-selling to small businesses by unregulated big business—I am talking not about the banks, but about Britain’s giant pub companies. So far, Ministers have ignored the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee report and inexplicably recommended self-policing. When will we have a statement from Ministers saying that they will uphold the clear will of the House, expressed on 12 January, and announce a review of this unsatisfactory position in the autumn?

[Sir George Young]

I commend my hon. Friend on his vigorous campaign on behalf of the country’s pubs and understand his disappointment with any decision to remain with self-policing. I will raise his concerns with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills and see whether there is anything to add to the statements that he has already made on the response to the Select Committee.

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)]

On 19 July, the Government announced their consultation on the draft suicide prevention strategy. That ended on 11 October. We are still waiting for the strategy finally to be announced. The Department of Health website says that the consultation responses will inform the final strategy “in early 2012”. May we have a statement before the House adjourns so that we know when we will have the suicide prevention strategy?

[Sir George Young]

I understand the hon. Lady’s concern at the length of time it has taken to get a response. There are Health questions on 17 July. I will see whether by then there can be a response to the issues that she has raised, as she may be able to ask a question.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

Business of the House

Lord Young of Cookham Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd July 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Leader of the House of Commons (Sir George Young)]

Mr Speaker, I should like to make a short business statement. The business for this Thursday will now be proceedings on the Supply and Appropriation (Main Estimates) Bill, followed by a debate on two motions relating to professional standards in the banking industry. I shall make my usual business statement on Thursday.

[Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab)]

I welcome that statement from the Leader of the House. Can he tell us how long he expects the debates to last?

[Sir George Young]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her welcome for the statement. The plan is to table a business motion today which will appear on the Order Paper tomorrow. The debate will be the main business on Thursday, and we plan to bring it to a conclusion at 5.15 pm to allow time for debate before 6 pm.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr John Redwood (Wokingham) (Con)]

Will the Leader of the House ensure that on Thursday it will be in order to debate banking competition and the structure of the state banks, so that we can have a proper debate on banking?

[Sir George Young]

The question of whether a speech would be in order would be a matter for you in the Chair, Mr Speaker. My right hon. Friend will be able to see the two motions which we hope to table today and which, in that event, will be on the Order Paper tomorrow. I am sure that, if he catches your eye on Thursday, he will be able to couch his speech in such a way as to remain in order.

I said that there will be debates at 5.15 pm; I meant votes.

[Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab)]

As a direct result of the announcement made by the Leader of the House, we will lose the opportunity on Thursday to debate a motion selected by the Backbench Business Committee about VAT and ambulance services. Can the Leader of the House tell me when time will be made available for that debate? Has he a date in mind, and how much time will be provided?

[Sir George Young]

I very much regret the inconvenience to the House and to Members who were planning to take part in Thursday’s debate on the two motions proposed by the Backbench Business Committee. I intend to find time for one of those two debates between now and the summer recess if possible. I hope to be able to say more on Thursday.

[Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)]

The other motion tabled for that day is in the name of members of the Public Administration Committee, and invites the House to give its opinion of our recommendation that the adviser on ministerial interests should be able to instigate his own inquiries instead of having to wait for a referral from the Prime Minister. Given that this is a very topical issue and that the Government have yet to respond to our latest report, may I ask my right hon. Friend to find time for that debate, not least because I am sure he would not want the impression to be given that the Government were reluctant to debate the issue?

[Sir George Young]

The subject that my hon. Friend has raised is indeed important, but my own view—without any disrespect—is that the crisis in the banking industry is even more important, and that it is entirely right for the House to find time to debate it. I can tell my hon. Friend that we plan to honour our commitment to the Backbench Business Committee to find at least 27 days for debate on the Floor of the House in each Session. I hope to say a little more about the time available, but the Committee already has half a day next Wednesday, and I hope that it will also have the last day before the House rises, so it is not the case that it has been totally starved of time.

[Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) (Lab)]

The debate on banking is of course very important, and the House understands that. It is only regrettable that it happens to be a Back-Bench day that it is replacing. Will the Leader of the House not only undertake to look into that, but guarantee that both the important debates that have had to be postponed will be held before the House rises for the summer recess?

[Sir George Young]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her comments. At the meeting of the Backbench Business Committee this morning, representations were made to her for a debate on the banking industry, so there is an appetite for that. In response to her request to make good the two half days, as I have said the Committee already has a half day earmarked for sittings motions next Wednesday, and I hope it will also have the last day before we rise for the recess. I will use my best endeavours to find another half day between now and the time the House rises. I cannot go further than that at this time.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

This is an outrage, Mr Speaker. This is the Executive imposing their will on Back-Bench time. I invite the Leader of the House to change his decision, as there is some irrelevant business on Monday and we could hold this debate in Executive time then.

[Sir George Young]

Far from there being irrelevant business on Monday, it is business that I think is so important that it warrants two days of debate. The issue we will be debating on Thursday is also very important. It arose since the last business questions, and there is a debate in the country about the banking industry. I think it is important that this House should also be part of that debate, which is why we have rearranged the business.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Will the motions on Thursday require that the Joint Committee operate according to the rules of the primary Chamber, namely the House of Commons, as opposed to the House of Lords, and will there be an opportunity for a free vote on who gets to chair the Committee?

[Sir George Young]

The issue of who will chair a Joint Committee, if it is set up, would be a matter for that Committee. The hon. Gentleman will be able to see the motions when they appear on the Order Paper, and they will include the two alternatives: the inquiry that has been proposed by the Opposition, and the Joint Committee that has been proposed by the Government. They will both be put before the House.

[John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)]

The Leader of the House’s statement makes it clear that the Government are going to ever greater lengths to avoid a full judge-led inquiry. By the time this House votes at 5.15 pm on Thursday, the Treasury Committee will have held three sessions on the LIBOR scandal, and it is also halfway through an inquiry into governance in the banking industry. If the Leader of the House wants Parliament to do the job, why not let the Select Committee do it, instead of involving the Lords?

[Sir George Young]

The right hon. Gentleman has begun to engage in a debate that might take place on Thursday, but it goes slightly beyond the scope of the business statement. I hope that in the debate members of the Treasury Committee—including, perhaps, the Chair of the Committee—might express their views on the proposition we will have put before the House.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

I want to add my support to the Chairman of the Public Administration Committee, the hon. Member for Harwich and North Essex (Mr Jenkin), and to emphasise that there is support for his view on both sides of the House and the Select Committee. This issue is about devolving powers from the Prime Minister, which would be a significant constitutional change, and it deserves the House’s full attention.

[Sir George Young]

It is indeed an important matter, and I think I am right in saying that the Chairs of all the Select Committees have added their names to the proposal, so it does have all-party support. I gently say to the hon. Gentleman, however, that in the 13 years before the last election, the Labour party consistently failed to give the Prime Minister’s adviser the freedom which is now advocated.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

Presenting just these two options does not necessarily represent the views of all Members. Many will want to have an immediate inquiry by the Treasury Committee, to enable a longer-term inquiry to take place. If that were to happen, we could address the immediate issues and have recommendations about the immediate legislative changes needed to address, in particular, confidence in the City, but then also have a longer-term inquiry that could report back in due course.

[Sir George Young]

The motions we put down tomorrow for debate on Thursday will be amendable, although whether any amendment is chosen is a matter for the Speaker.

[Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)]

I am glad the Leader of the House remembered to inform us that there will be votes on Thursday. Will the Government parties be whipping on the issue, given its importance and the need for consensus?

[Sir George Young]

Issues of whipping are a matter for my right hon. Friend the Patronage Secretary. I do not know whether the hon. Gentleman was in the House yesterday, but the Government made their views on this issue known then.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

I thank the Leader of the House for his statement. Yesterday, we were promised one motion, but today we are being told that there will be two, which apparently, given what he has just said, will be rival motions. As has been mentioned, many people see a case for a parliamentary inquiry that will inform amendments to the Financial Services Bill and also see the need for a wider judicial inquiry to get to the bottom of this problem. This “strokery” of good key business being made a casualty of today’s announcement and of rival motions will frustrate Parliament in doing the job it needs to do in response to this crisis.

[Sir George Young]

I say to the hon. Gentleman that there is a disagreement between the two sides of the House as to the best way forward. The right way to resolve that disagreement is to have a debate and then have a vote on the two alternative propositions. That is how this House makes a decision.