Fossil Fuels: Lobbying

Alex Burghart Excerpts

Tuesday 30th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) on gaining this Adjournment debate, and echo in part what the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) said: although we do not agree on everything, we appreciate that she is to some extent the conscience of the House on these matters, and is always there to encourage Government and everyone else to go further.

I am pleased to be able to respond to some of the points that the hon. Lady raised. She made the case that the interactions between representatives of fossil fuel companies, political figures and those in public life should be transparent. The Government believe that lobbying is a legitimate part of political development in all areas, as long as it is conducted transparently and ethically to maintain the highest standards in public life. The Government outlined wide-ranging improvements to transparency around lobbying in their “Strengthening Ethics and Integrity in Central Government” policy statement of July 2023. These include revising guidance to widen the range of lobbying engagements declared by Departments, and linked reforms to the consultant lobbying framework. These measures, when implemented, will ensure that all lobbying activity, irrespective of which sector is being represented, will be conducted openly and in accordance with the principles expected of participants in public life.

In the UK, a number of systems ensure that lobbying activity is conducted honestly and transparently. Taken together, these systems, which set the rules for the consultant lobbying industry, Ministers and Government Departments, Members of Parliament and political parties, ensure that it is clear whose interests are being represented in public life. The register of consultant lobbyists, created by the lobbying Act—the Transparency of Lobbying, non-Party Campaigning and Trade Union Administration Act 2014—has significantly increased transparency around the work of consultant lobbyists since its creation in 2015. The register makes it clear whose interests are being represented by consultant lobbyists, and provides accessible online information about those undertaking consultant lobbying and their clients, as well as details of investigations into alleged breaches of the Act.

The Act also established an independent registrar of consultant lobbyists, who has powers to monitor and enforce compliance and administers the register of consultant lobbyists. The register of consultant lobbyists complements existing transparency mechanisms, including the quarterly publication of ministerial meetings with external organisations, business appointment rules and industry-led regulation, such as subscription to industry codes of conduct.

From January 2024 onwards, meetings held between Ministers and consultant lobbyists will be declared through routine quarterly transparency. This will also apply to those senior officials who are subject to meeting declarations. New transparency guidance was published on gov.uk in December 2023, detailing stricter minimum standards for meeting descriptions, to ensure that declarations contain relevant, constructive information. As I said, new guidance expands the scope of transparency declarations for senior officials to include meetings held between external organisations and individuals, and directors general, finance and commercial directors, and senior responsible owners in the Government’s major projects portfolio.

The code of conduct for Members of Parliament sets out the standards of behaviour expected of Ministers, and the rules on the registration and declaration of interests. The code provides that Members must fulfil conscientiously the requirements of the House in respect of the registration of interests in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests and must always be open and frank in declaring any relevant interest in any proceeding in the House or its Committees. It is for the Standards Committee, not the Government, to consider any changes to the approach to the registration of interests.

[Caroline Lucas]

The Minister is obviously going through the existing architecture that is supposed to guard against undue influence from lobbyists, corporations and so on. I wonder whether he would agree with his presumably former colleague, now Lord Pickles, who admitted that the office of the Advisory Committee on Business Appointments is toothless, and that work does need to be done on that. If when a Member breaches the rules they simply get a letter telling them, “You should not do that again,” that will hardly be a sanction that anyone will be particularly worried about.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alex Burghart]

Obviously, the Government take seriously anything that Lord Pickles says, and I certainly do. He was my predecessor in Brentwood and Ongar, and I hold him in high regard. There is a process by which such comments are considered, and we will continue to go through it.

I hope the hon. Lady will appreciate that a chunk of the framework that I have just set out is new, and it is important that we give it a chance to work. What governs a lot of our thinking—perhaps where we diverge from her—is the fact that we cannot envisage a situation in which it would be wise to shut energy companies out of the discussions. We consider them to be fundamental to the transition to net zero. We also believe that some may have a role when we get to net zero and that it is clear that some fossil fuels will be necessary even when we reach that destination.

Consequentially, the Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero and her Ministers regularly met a wide range of stakeholders to discuss issues relating to energy security and net zero. Of course, that includes meeting oil and gas companies and representative organisations, as well as environmental organisations and charities. For a sector that supports around 200,000 jobs and is at the forefront of the drive to net zero and the energy transition, where the workforce is transferable to green jobs of the future, that is a responsible position to take.

The Prime Minister has reiterated that net zero is a priority for this Government, and we remain absolutely committed to meeting our legally binding net zero target. More than ever, we are determined to adopt a fair and pragmatic approach to net zero that minimises the burden on working people. No other country has matched our record on decarbonisation. Unlike most other countries, the UK’s climate commitments are set in law. The UK is a net importer of oil and gas and a fast-declining producer, hence new oil and gas projects simply reduce the fall in the UK supply; they do not increase it on current levels. The new Offshore Petroleum Licensing Bill will not undermine those commitments.

[Caroline Lucas]

The Minister is being generous with his time. He will know that just today the Climate Change Committee issued an interim report saying that the Government are off target when it comes to their commitments and the thresholds they are meant to meet. He will also know that the same committee has been pretty critical of, for example, the new Offshore Petroleum Licensing Bill. He cannot simply rest on his laurels and say that we had a good reputation in the past and therefore things are going to go well now—we are off track right now.

Secondly, the Minister talked about consultant lobbyists, but they are a tiny proportion of who is doing this work. For example, the Foreign Secretary was not registered as a consultant lobbyist when he worked for Greensill. The consultant lobbying issue is, frankly, a complete red herring here. We need to look beyond that at who is speaking to whom and with what effect.

[Alex Burghart]

Alas, I have no laurels on which to rest; I am merely a junior Minister. Obviously, the Government are keen that we have a fit-for-purpose regime that ensures that lobbying is transparent. That is why we have introduced a number of the changes that I have already outlined.

On the report published today by the committee, the hon. Lady will have to forgive me because I have not yet had time to consult it, but we always take the committee’s findings seriously. She will also be aware that it has previously said that, even when we get to net zero, we will still require some fossil fuels for certain purposes.

[Sir John Hayes]

I think the hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion (Caroline Lucas) has got a point about ACOBA, and so does Lord Pickles. Happily, I have never breached ACOBA’s rules or any parliamentary rules, as she knows, but if anyone did so, surely there ought to be some measure that ACOBA could take? My hon. Friend the Minister has been through the process, as those of us who have been Ministers all have, and he will know that my own, long-established views on these subjects are unaltered, unaffected and uninfluenced by anything I do outside this place. But none the less, the point remains.

[Alex Burghart]

It is hard to imagine my right hon. Friend breaking any rules, I have to say. I know the authorities will have noted what he said on ACOBA.

The hon. Member for Brighton, Pavilion has clearly articulated her views on how the UK should aim to reach the goal of net zero. That we might differ on that does not detract from the core principle that a range of energy stakeholders all have a role. The Government’s firm belief is that lobbying activity has an important and legitimate role to play in the policy development process, so long as interactions between lobbyists and political actors are properly declared.

We support the existing rules, which apply to the lobbying industry, Government and Parliament—both to individual Members and to informal groups and all-party parliamentary groups—and we shall continue to drive forward reforms to improve transparency. The hon. Lady might disagree, but in a democratic society, public policy is best informed by engagement and political debate. Elected representatives have to meet a wide range of people, not just people they agree with; that is democratic engagement. Such debate should be supported by an independent free press, and then, at the ballot box, we should trust the people.

Question put and agreed to.

Next General Election

Alex Burghart Excerpts

Monday 29th January 2024 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)]

I can see that it is going to be a long year. We will have plenty of time over the next few months to rehearse all the points put across by Opposition Members, and no doubt some of the points that I will put across from the Government. I thank you for your chairmanship, Mr Dowd, and I congratulate the hon. Member for Gower (Tonia Antoniazzi) on moving the motion on behalf of the signatories to the e-petition, which calls for an immediate general election.

I am grateful for the opportunity to respond on behalf of the Government, but I am sorry to have to tell the hon. Lady that the requisite authority has not been delegated to me at this time and I am unable to grant her wish for an immediate election. In the absence of such powers, I can refer her to what the Prime Minister has already said—that he is expecting a general election in the second half of 2024, so it could be as soon as five months away. The hon. Lady will be aware that the authority rests with the Prime Minister and the King, but we will have an election in 2024.

The hon. Member for Aberdeen North (Kirsty Blackman) asked for a ray of sunshine, and here I am. There are extraordinary stories to be told from the past 14 years. There are better state schools, as judged by PISA, the programme for international student assessment. We are doing better in international rankings than ever before, thanks to the reforms and investment that we have made. There are better apprenticeships, helping more young people to earn while they learn and move into work. We have the best universities in Europe, sought after by many; record employment, underpinned by an improved welfare system in the form of universal credit; more free childcare than ever before; a national living wage; same-sex marriage; two new aircraft carriers; and the fastest decarbonisation of any major economy. We appreciate that we still have further to go, but emissions are down by more than 50% since their peak in the ’70s.

Brexit has been delivered, with global free trade deals, notably an enormously important one with the Pacific. We have more money than ever before in the NHS; record numbers of doctors and nurses; neighbourhood crime down by 50%; and 2.5 million homes. Not only have we had better growth since 2010 than Germany, France, Italy and Spain, but the International Monetary Fund expects the UK to have better growth than Germany, France, Italy and Japan in the medium term. Last year, the UK overtook France as the eighth largest manufacturing nation on earth.

These are all the result of choices. They are all the result of the decisions taken by Conservative Governments since 2010. Have this Conservative Government achieved that because we were handed a golden legacy by the previous Labour Government? Not a bit of it. When we took over, the economy was in the sewer. Since that time, we have managed to deal with the largest public health crisis in a century, the largest war in Europe since 1945, the biggest energy crisis since the 1970s and the highest inflation since the 1980s—and still the projections for our country going forward are good, and confidence in our nation’s economy among our international partners remains high.

I look forward to taking these arguments and more to the electorate in the months ahead, and I look forward to rehearsing the back and forth with hon. Members in the Chamber and beyond.

Extreme Weather Events: Resilience

Alex Burghart Excerpts

Wednesday 24th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State in the Cabinet Office if he will make a statement on the UK’s resilience to recent extreme weather events, including Storm Isha and Storm Jocelyn.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)]

I begin by saying how sorry the Government were to hear that four people—two in this country and two in Ireland—sadly lost their lives due to Storm Isha. I extend my sympathy to their family and friends. At the same time, I praise our emergency and utility workers who worked so hard to help the public in very difficult conditions.

Forecasters at the Met Office raised a rare whole-country weather warning for the wind over the weekend, in preparation for Storm Isha. The warning encompassed even rarer amber and red warnings for wind in the areas forecast to experience the worst of the storm. Indeed, wind gusts reached a peak of 99 mph in Northumberland and 124 mph across the Cairngorms. Although the storm had the potential to be extremely destructive, the vast majority of the transport and power infrastructure stood up well and recovered quickly, which is a credit to the resilience of our critical infrastructure and the response capabilities of our operational partners on the ground.

Storm Isha was closely followed by Storm Jocelyn, which reached a peak of 97 mph. I am informed that it was the 10th named storm to impact our country this season. Again, the impacts of Jocelyn in England were less than feared, with operational partners working around the clock to clear any disruption on our transport and power networks.

There is no doubt that the forecasting capabilities of our experts at the Met Office, and the accuracy and speed at which they can warn and inform the public of incoming severe weather events, saves lives and protects our homes and businesses.

My officials and those across government worked hard last week and over the weekend to co-ordinate the extensive preparation and mitigation measures that were taken. The fact that no escalation to a Cobra-level response was required for either storm is testament to our effective response structures at local and national levels. I am very grateful for the response from colleagues in the devolved Administrations and local resilience forums across the country. Our local authority and agency partners kept public services running and reacted to any local issues that emerged.

We are adapting to weather events not previously experienced in our country, and events such as these come with increasing frequency and severity. The UK is driving forward cross-Government action to respond to climate risks and their impacts on our economy and way of life. Our third national adaptation programme, published in July last year, sets out an ambitious five-year programme of work, driven by three themes: action, information and co-ordination.

We are ensuring a more integrated approach to climate adaptation over the next five years, through stronger Government engagement and co-ordinated policymaking. As part of that, we have established the right Government structures not only to monitor progress, but to tackle strategic cross-cutting challenges that will drive the UK’s resilience to climate change. This is all in line with the Government’s broader strategy, as set out in the resilience framework, which committed us to strengthening the links between our understanding of the risks that the UK faces and the action we take to prevent those risks from materialising. We must continue to drive forward these initiatives, which help us to curb the impacts of climate change, and at the same time build systems that help us to withstand extreme events as they arise.

[Mr McFadden]

I thank the Minister for his response. Recent days have seen the UK battered by two severe storms, first Storm Isha and then Storm Jocelyn—the 10th named storm of this winter. Liz Bentley, chief executive of the Royal Meteorological Society, has said that these storms are

“some of the worst in the last 10 years”.

Our constituents across the country have been hit by widespread damage, flooding, power outages, and the cancellation of flights, ferries and trains. In the most tragic circumstances, four people are reported to have lost their lives. I want to pay tribute to the emergency service workers, electrical engineers and other response teams who have been working to help people, restore power and get transport moving, often at risk to themselves, in very severe conditions. We owe them all a debt of thanks.

Of course, Ministers cannot control the weather—indeed, ex-Ministers on the Conservative Benches cannot even control themselves—but the greater regularity and severity of extreme weather demands a response from the Government. Let me therefore ask the Minister: given the frequency of extreme weather events, why do the Government not have a standing flood resilience taskforce, as part of the Cobra system, with a specific responsibility for building up long-term protection? Local resilience forums have been neglected since the passing of the Civil Contingencies Act 2004 under the Labour Government. What more can Ministers do to revive them and make sure they are properly supported? Last week, the Public Accounts Committee said the flood protection budget put in place has been underused since it was announced and is now expected to cover 40% fewer properties than was first claimed. That leaves more than 200,000 homes vulnerable to flooding. What is the Government’s plan for them?

Jocelyn may be the latest storm, but it will not be the last. The very least the public have a right to expect is that their Government| understand that, and are focused on the job and not on whatever is the latest episode in the Tory psychodrama that has distracted the governance of the country for far too long.

[Alex Burghart]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his warm words about our emergency services and utility workers. On his specific point about flooding, he will have heard the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, which is responsible for this area, comment earlier in the week that, “Flooding resilience in England is a priority for DEFRA, as part of a whole-society approach to resilience outlined in the UK Government resilience framework.” For example, the Government are investing a record £5.2 billion in the flood and coastal erosion risk management capital programme. Since 2021, over £1.5 billion has so far been invested in flood defence projects across England, with over 67,000 properties better protected.

Of course, the response to flooding is just one part of our resilience work that is co-ordinated by the Cabinet Office. Mercifully, very few families were flooded out of their homes in the storms we have just had, but we are absolutely cognisant of the need to prepare. I hope the right hon. Gentleman will have seen the National Audit Office report published late last year, which notes positively that since 2021 the Government have

“strengthened the arrangements to manage national risks”;

that they are

“taking steps to address extreme weather risks as whole-system risks”,

a point to which I will return in a moment; and that they have acquired

“good forecasting data for droughts, heatwaves and storms”.

Over the past few years, we have seen a noticeable improvement in storm preparedness and response. A few years ago, there were still about 40,000 people without power three days after Storm Arwen. The storms we have just had were very powerful and about 400,000 people lost power to their homes, but 99% of them had their power restored within 24 hours as a result of the planning and preparedness that this Government have put in place.

We have learned the lessons. We now have improved public warnings, we have hardened infrastructure and, crucially, we forward deploy repair experts. When we see storms forming over the Atlantic, we signal to local partners in the utilities and the emergency services, and they go out and get ready on the ground, doing everything from clearing storm drains to getting ready to repair infrastructure that might be vulnerable.

We have better public information. The public are much more connected with the activity of storms. Naming storms may seem like a superficial change, but we know that is has improved public awareness of what is going on. We have clearer travel advice and the Department for Transport is doing great work through our operators.

We also have superior forecasting. The Government have invested a great deal in compute capacity and forecasting capacity that enables us to see where storms are coming from. Better co-ordination and deployment of resources from the centre means that we are working better with partners on the ground and getting a better response when extreme events take place.

[Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con)]

I thank the Minister for his statement and I thank his officials in the Cabinet Office who do so much that is often unseen. On those with a higher public profile, will he join me in thanking the Environment Agency emergency response teams for the west midlands, the Shropshire fire and rescue teams, who have done such a great job, and all the officials at Severn Trent Water, Shropshire Council and Telford and Wrekin Council?

The Minister mentions national infrastructure; does he agree that highways fall under that? Will he call on Highways England to do more to ensure that the M54, an important road in Shropshire and in connecting Wales and England, has less flooding in future and to put in place more mitigation and investment to do that?

[Alex Burghart]

I join my hon. Friend in his words of praise for those who have been working in the west midlands. I am sure that my DFT colleagues have heard what he said about the critical road in his constituency.

[Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)]

It is a little bit cheeky of the Government to take entire responsibility for the improvements. For example, SSE has put improvements in place and done a huge amount of work, for which it deserves credit, so it is not just about the changes to forecasting. I thank the resilience partnerships that improved the emergency services, the energy companies and all the individuals who stepped up to help others in their local communities. It was truly a community effort and people came together.

I wish the Government would take climate change more seriously, given the incredible amount of extreme weather events we are seeing right now. It is important for the Government both to talk the talk and to walk the walk when it comes to climate change. They should be leading from the front in developing a strategy to help to ensure that we are resilient in the face of climate adaptation and the changes that are happening, and they should put the funding in place to ensure that that strategy can be delivered.

The Scottish Government need funding to make the changes required for resilience. If there are massive geographical disparities in some of the weather events, such as with Storm Arwen, then Barnett may not be the appropriate method to fund some of the required changes. In the upcoming Budget process, it might be sensible for the Government to ensure that resilience funding is spread to the areas that are most likely to be hardest hit, so that rather than Scotland having a percentage share based on our population numbers, that share is based on the likelihood of extreme climate events. That would be most welcome, particularly when it comes to resilience.

[Alex Burghart]

That is a classic question from the SNP, isn’t it? The hon. Lady did not listen to what I have said and then asked for more money. Central Government are absolutely not taking all the credit for everything that has happened. As she will have just heard me say, it is our partnership with the people who work in the emergency services, local government, utility companies and so on that has made the changes possible.

On climate change, I am sure the hon. Lady will be pleased to discover that, since peak CO₂ emissions in the mid-1970s, the UK Government by their actions have helped to reduce CO₂ emissions by more than 50%, which is more than any other G7 country. We take these things seriously and we will continue to do so.

[Dr Neil Hudson (Penrith and The Border) (Con)]

I thank both the Minister for his statement and the Government for their clear actions to strengthen our nation’s resilience. As these extreme storms again unleash damage right across the UK, will my hon. Friend join me in sending our thoughts to the people whose homes, businesses and farms have been affected, and in paying tribute to the Environment Agency staff, emergency services, local authorities, electricity companies and volunteer groups—such as the Appleby Emergency Response Group in my constituency—which do so much to help people and communities through the trauma and aftermath of storms and severe floods?

[Alex Burghart]

I am very happy to join my hon. Friend in paying tribute to the Appleby Emergency Response Group. So often, it is local community organisations, with their connections and awareness of and intelligence about what is taking place on the ground, that make a response possible, so I am very happy to join him in that. I am glad to hear that although his constituency was hit hard by the storms, it has managed to move on quickly.

[Karin Smyth (Bristol South) (Lab)]

My right hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden) asked why the Government had neglected local resilience forums and, indeed, the Civil Contingencies Act 2004, which they bypassed during covid. May I ask that question again? What lessons have the Government learned from covid and such issues in order to give greater sustainability to the local resilience forums that need to protect us?

[Alex Burghart]

We obviously learned a great many lessons from covid. As the hon. Lady will be aware from the documentation that the Government have published over the past couple of years, there has been a great deal of activity to improve our resilience and response to emergencies. My right hon. Friend the Deputy Prime Minister gave a statement to that effect in this House in December.

The Cabinet Office assigns ownership of acute national risks to lead Government Departments, across risk identification, risk assessment, prevention, resilience, preparation and emergency response and recovery. The lead Government Departments may change between the phases as the impact changes and different competencies are required. None the less, the UK has adopted a bottom-up approach to managing emergencies, as most emergencies affect local areas. We have local responders such as the police, fire and ambulance services, which manage emergencies without direct involvement from the Government. The response to larger-scale emergencies is then led by lead Government Departments. It is only in the most serious cases that the response is escalated to Cabinet Office briefing rooms—known as Cobra—and senior Ministers from across Government are brought in. As the hon. Lady will have heard me say, this is very much about a partnership between centre and locality, and we are starting to see the benefits of that approach.

[Mrs Heather Wheeler (South Derbyshire) (Con)]

May I ask my hon. Friend to congratulate the good people of Repton and the other villages that came together to help with all the flooding that has been going on? In particular, they are holding follow-up meetings to get more flood wardens across South Derbyshire. I have never seen anything like the flooding that has taken place in South Derbyshire. We need to get the Environment Agency to move on with plans for installing holding ponds further up the Trent and the Derwent to stop the run-off from the fields that we have had this time round. Anything that my hon. Friend can do to help me to get spades in the ground on those projects would be much appreciated.

[Alex Burghart]

I very much hear what my hon. Friend says. I know that my colleagues in the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs will have heard likewise. She will have heard what I had to say earlier about the Department’s position on flooding. On alerts, for instance, normal flood warnings were operated. We did not use the national alert because the situation did not reach that threshold, and our local partners did not ask us to use it. From what we can see at this stage, that local system worked well and helped to protect people and, where possible, property.

[Christine Jardine (Edinburgh West) (LD)]

The consistent storms we have had this winter have meant that our communities have felt more consistently battered by flooding and winds than ever before. Sadly, as the Minister mentioned, lives were lost at the weekend. Tens of thousands of houses and businesses were left without power. Transport links were halted in my Edinburgh constituency—there were no flights out of the airport, no trains were going anywhere, and roads and bridges were closed. Thousands of homes were flooded, yet the National Audit Office has warned that the Government have not set a long-term target for the level of flood resilience that they expect to achieve, and there are no concrete plans to do so beyond 2026. That means that any investment could be misplaced and inefficient and that homes will not be protected sufficiently. Does the Minister see that this could be a lack of foresight? Will the Government commit to reversing the current cuts to flood protection and do more to ensure that investment is effective?

[Alex Burghart]

The hon. Lady will have heard me reflect on what DEFRA said earlier in the week about the £5.2 billion of investment in flood and coastal erosion risk management through its capital programme, and the fact that, since 2021, the Government have put £1.5 billion into flood-defence projects across England.

On the hon. Lady’s first point about the level of disruption, we understand and sympathise with people who have been put in such situations. Although we cannot control the weather, we can, by degrees, become better prepared for events, both through the general resilience planning that the Government have been doing and by having better intelligence on storms forming over the Atlantic and making sure we have the right people with the right skills poised to act quickly when those storms strike. That, of course, means that we can minimise disruption to the public, even though we cannot eliminate it altogether.

[Darren Henry (Broxtowe) (Con)]

In my Broxtowe constituency, some businesses and homes that I have visited have been affected by multiple storms and have received the flood recovery grant but, as it stands, those who have been affected by Storm Babet and Storm Henk can claim after only one of the floods. Are the Government looking to put more support in place for individuals who have been flooded multiple times by separate storms?

[Alex Burghart]

My hon. Friend raises a very important question. We know how awful it can be for families to be flooded out of their homes. There is damage to their property and effects, and sometimes to items with sentimental value. It is important that we have processes and procedures in place to make sure that we can help people out in those circumstances. On my hon. Friend’s specific point, I will make sure that he gets a response from colleagues in DEFRA.

[Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)]

In Scottish questions, I spoke of how Caithness and north Sutherland were completely cut off. All the roads were blocked during the storms, so a pregnant mum whose contractions had started could not even begin her 100-mile journey to Raigmore in Inverness to give birth. People speak of the helicopter ambulance; there is one based in Inverness, but if that has to go to an emergency in Lochaber, on the other side of Scotland, what does the pregnant mum do? To be quite honest, we are faced with a mum and her child dying. When the Minister meets the Scottish Government, will he please point out the utter folly of centralising these services in Inverness, when we have a perfectly good, workable hospital in Wick, which should be upgraded and put into full use?

[Alex Burghart]

I am happy to communicate that message strongly to the devolved Administration. I have visited Caithness and seen its remote beauty, but yes, one can only imagine what it would be like to be a young woman giving birth and cut off from major services. I feel that the hon. Gentleman’s plea for an upgrade at Wick is very important.

[Dr Ben Spencer (Runnymede and Weybridge) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for his statement. Two weeks ago, Runnymede and Weybridge was flooded as a result of Storm Henk. When flooding happens locally, my constituents must navigate a host of organisations with different responsibilities, including Surrey Fire and Rescue Service, Surrey County Council, Runnymede Borough Council, Elmbridge Borough Council, Thames Water, Affinity Water, the Environment Agency and Surrey Highways. As part of my campaign to improve flood response and preparedness, and protection from flooding, I have been calling for a local flood control centre to be a single co-ordinated access point for accessible support and advice, and clear and consistent communication. Will the Minister meet me to discuss that?

[Alex Burghart]

I am glad that my hon. Friend has such a worthy campaign to support his constituents. I will ensure that his request for a meeting goes to the most appropriate Minister, who may be able to advise him on how possible his proposal is.

[Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)]

According to the NAO, since plans were first unveiled in 2020 the Environment Agency has cut by 40% its forecast of the number of additional properties that will be better protected from flooding by 2027. In Feltham and Heston, the level of water on our streets during storms that is unable to drain away is getting higher and higher. I have to push the Minister on this: is he confident that his plans will be sufficient to keep homes and businesses across the country safe from flood-related damage? This is a huge and growing concern.

[Alex Burghart]

The hon. Lady will have heard me say a moment ago that the NAO was pleased that the Government have taken steps to address extreme weather as part of a whole-system approach, which can have real advantages when floods are coming. For example, it enables appropriately trained emergency workers to be sent out to clear storm drains and ensure that anything that might make the floods worse is cleared out of the way. She will also have heard me say that DEFRA has committed a great deal of money to improving flood defences over the past three or four years, and that tens of thousands of homes are better protected as a result. We are not complacent, and are always looking at ways we can improve that.

[Kit Malthouse (North West Hampshire) (Con)]

I welcome the Minister’s statement and the excellent work by the team at the Cabinet Office, who I know work extremely hard on these problems. As he will know, my constituency is home to some of our most precious chalk streams and winterbournes. I am sure that he is aware that water levels in the Bourne Valley and in villages to the west of Andover are perilously high. He will understand the ecological importance of those rivers, and the risk of the sewage system being overwhelmed and leaking into the chalk streams. The Environment Agency and Southern Water are doing great work. There is a huge pumping operation under way to avoid that calamity, but further significant rainfall might overwhelm the entire system. In his post-match analysis, once the weather calms down, will he consider giving special priority to identifying work that is required in areas of particular ecological sensitivity? Significant work has been done up and down my constituency over the past 10 years by the flood resilience group, Southern Water, the EA, and indeed riparian owners, but more could still be done, and it needs a certain amount of concentration.

[Alex Burghart]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his observations. As a former resident of 70 Whitehall, he understands the problems in great depth, and the chalk streams of Hampshire have no finer defender than his right honourable self. He makes a serious point about ecological sensitivity. It is right that we pay attention not only to the immediate threats to life or property but to our natural environment. As we know, if we do not do so, the damage can be irreparable and long lasting.

[Layla Moran (Oxford West and Abingdon) (LD)]

Barely a part of Oxford West and Abingdon was unaffected by the recent floods, but Abingdon remains unprotected. In 2007, we were promised a plan, which was cut because of a lack of resources for the EA. It is not just the River Thames; it is also the run-off from the new developments, where huge numbers of houses have been built. What is the Cabinet Office doing to connect DEFRA with the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities so that the developers, who have promised to clear the culverts, can be forced by the local authorities to do so?

[Alex Burghart]

As the hon. Lady will have heard me say earlier, the Cabinet Office has a co-ordinating role that brings together lead Government Departments and local responders. It would be under that guise that different Government Departments would meet to discuss issues of the sort that she describes.

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

Even by the standards of what we are accustomed to in the northern isles, the last week has been exceptionally disruptive. I associate myself with the previous expressions of gratitude to the road staff, electricity engineers and others who have gone about their jobs, and to those who are responding even though it is not part of their job. The response of farmers, who just get on with clearing the snow with a bucket on the front of their tractor, has been phenomenal. Is this not a moment to pause and reflect that some of the changes proposed in other parts of Government could weaken our resilience? The switch-off of the copper wire network for telephones and the proposed increase in the response time of the search and rescue helicopter provided by the coastguard from 15 minutes to 60 minutes will leave us in a worse position if they are allowed to happen. Can the Cabinet Office do something to ensure that they are not?

[Alex Burghart]

I have landed at Tingwall airport in a storm in the summer, and that was frightening enough.

[Mr Carmichael]

You would not have done that last week!

[Alex Burghart]

No. One can only imagine what it has felt like in the Shetlands over the past week or so. My sympathies are with the right hon. Gentleman’s constituents. To his point about general resilience, the Government are trying to take a whole-system approach to understand exactly how we can work with emergency responders and those who are responsible for our national infrastructure. We are making progress, but there are always areas in which we can do more work.

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

As both the Minister and the shadow Minister, the right hon. Member for Wolverhampton South East (Mr McFadden), pointed out, this is the latest in a series of storms that we have faced. In October, St Andrews harbour was significantly damaged as a result of the sea surges following Storm Babet. The harbour is run by a trust that dates from when James VI of Scotland granted the land to the people of the town, but as a result of the community ownership fund that the Government have run, and other funds generally, more and more of our assets are owned and run by local communities, which when faced with this kind of disaster have no source of funding to access support. Do the Government agree that they should be looking at ensuring that funding is in place, because St Andrews is a working harbour that is facing £3 million in costs. Without the repairs being made, there is a risk of other parts of the town being affected in the future.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alex Burghart]

I am pleased to have learned something about St Andrews harbour. I am sure that colleagues in other Government Departments, including DLUHC, are considering those issues. Community-owned assets can be a wonderful thing. It is important that assets such as local ports are governed by people who really understand the towns and cities in which they are based. I am happy to take that forward.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for his positive answers to the questions. Farmers in my constituency tell me they cannot recall floods and rain quite like this; indeed, they tell me the volume of rain has been of biblical proportions. I hail from the coastal constituency of Strangford, where storms hit with a fury that is possibly not fully grasped. The coastline defences around Strangford loch and within my constituency have been subjected to a level of onslaught never before seen. Can the Minister confirm what discussions he has had with the Department in Stormont, to which Westminster gave substantial financial help to address coastal erosion? Perhaps the same level of assistance can be offered again.

[Alex Burghart]

I will ask Ministers from other Departments to come back to the hon. Gentleman on the specifics, but he will know that we are very keen to see a restoration of Stormont, and I believe that the House will hear more about that very soon.

[Sarah Dyke (Somerton and Frome) (LD)]

Somerset is so often battered by extreme flooding and, in response, the River Cam flood warning system is being piloted in my constituency. A stretch near North Cadbury will be fitted out tomorrow with laser depth-measuring devices, which will send real-time messages and alerts to residents when the water levels start to rise. Will the Minister join me in congratulating Liberal Democrat councillors and Somerset Rivers Authority for that initiative and agree that we need to fund more extreme weather resilience plans for isolated rural communities?

[Alex Burghart]

I am delighted to hear about the initiative in Cadbury—I have fond memories as a schoolboy of walking around the hillfort there—and am well aware of the historical threats that Somerset has faced with flooding. I am glad that in recent incidences local government and central Government have been able to work together for the benefit of the people who live in that area.

Oral Answers to Questions

Alex Burghart Excerpts

Thursday 18th January 2024 Commons Chamber

[Helen Hayes (Dulwich and West Norwood) (Lab)]

10. What recent discussions he has had with the chair of the Grenfell Tower inquiry on the timetable for publication of the phase 2 report.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)]

The Grenfell Tower inquiry is a statutory inquiry established under the Inquiries Act 2005. Under the Act, the drafting of an inquiry’s final report and the timing of that process are rightly matters for the independent inquiry chair. In its November 2023 newsletter, published on its website, the inquiry confirmed that

“the report will not be published before April next year but the Panel hopes to be able to send it to the Prime Minister before the next anniversary of the fire with publication soon thereafter.”

[Mike Amesbury]

I thank the Minister for his response. It is now nearly seven years since the Grenfell tragedy, in which 72 people lost their lives. What assurances has he had from the inquiry chair that there will be no further delays in the publication of the report? It is essential that justice is done, and I know that view is echoed across the House.

[Alex Burghart]

The hon. Gentleman will have seen, further to what I have just read out, the report that was published in November, in which the chair explained that rule 13 of the inquiry rules requires the inquiry

“to write to those who might be subject to criticism”

and give them fair time to respond. The newsletter states:

“The rule 13 process is proving time consuming.”

However, I hope that the hon. Gentleman will be reassured by the dates that I have read out.

[Helen Hayes]

The Prime Minister assured the public that the Grenfell tragedy would not be forgotten, yet across many different areas of concern—the lack of resolution on the future of the Grenfell Tower site, the many buildings that have been evacuated because of structural concerns, and the lack of justice for survivors—we see a lack of urgency in addressing the concerns raised by the inquiry. When will the Government act to rebuild public confidence and ensure that the necessary measures are taken to prevent a similar tragedy happening in future?

[Alex Burghart]

I thank the hon. Lady for her question, but I think it is deeply unfair to suggest that there has been a lack of urgency from the Government. The then Prime Minister announced the inquiry the day after that terrible event, and we have taken huge action to provide compensation for people and to ensure that no qualifying leaseholder living in a building above 11 metres will face the cost of remediation for unsafe cladding. Of course we are eager to get the response from the official inquiry, and we will take action thereafter.

[Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab)]

2. Whether he has made an assessment of the adequacy of public procurement processes under covid-19 emergency regulations.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

9. Whether he has made an assessment of the adequacy of public procurement processes under covid-19 emergency regulations.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)]

There are well established procedures in the Public Contracts Regulations 2015 for handling emergency procurements, which enable the Government to procure lifesaving goods and expertise. We followed those procedures in order to save lives as fast as we could during the worst pandemic in living memory. The Procurement Act 2023, which has just passed both Houses of Parliament, will introduce faster competition processes for emergency buying, reducing the reliance on direct awards while retaining and improving transparency, and the ability to act at pace in situations similar to the covid pandemic.

[Mr Dhesi]

I am deeply saddened by the death of our dear friend Sir Tony Lloyd.

I fear that the Procurement Act will allow for the same horrific waste of taxpayers’ money and the approach to public procurement that we experienced during the pandemic, with friends and donors to the Tory party being given the first bite of the cherry while decent local skilled businesses are increasingly sidelined by the Government’s approach. We saw that in recent analysis from the British Chambers of Commerce. Can the Minister explain why small and medium-sized enterprises are increasingly being sidelined from access to public procurement?

[Alex Burghart]

I have to take issue with a number of the hon. Gentleman’s points. First and foremost, the idea, constantly repeated by Opposition Members, that there was special consideration for individual companies—[Interruption.] It is very important that we go through this yet again. The hon. Gentleman has had answers on this twice in the past year, but I am going to tell him a third time: the simple fact of the matter is that everyone who applied for a contract went through the same process. Very hardworking and professional civil servants made those judgments in uniquely difficult circumstances. Frankly, I am sick of hearing slurs against their good name. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

If the Minister has to say it for a fourth time, I hope that we will not get the attention we are receiving today.

--- Later in debate ---

[Debbie Abrahams]

The fact that Ministers’ mates can get these lucrative contracts, as last month’s evidence showed, while tens of thousands of our constituents struggle to put food on the table is an absolute disgrace. Of the £12.6 billion-worth of personal protective equipment contracts let in 2020, will the Minister confirm—I have evidence on this, so I advise him to choose his language carefully—that up to a third were fraudulent, or the result of profiteering or conflicts of interest?

[Alex Burghart]

I would be very interested to see the hon. Lady’s evidence. Where there is evidence of fraud, we will of course go after that, as we have done so in a number of high-profile cases. Where investigations are ongoing, we will recoup as much money as we can for the British taxpayer.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab/Co-op)]

I, too, wish to put on the record my condolences to Tony Lloyd’s family. He will be missed across the House, and across the Labour movement as a whole.

The Government lost £9 billion through duff, unusable PPE. The Prime Minister, when Chancellor, signed off £7 billion-worth of dodgy covid loans. Even today, the Government are losing £10 billion to tax fraud, £6 billion to universal credit fraud, and billions more across the public sector as a whole. Is the truth not that families are paying £1,200 more on average in tax because the Government simply cannot be trusted with taxpayers’ money?

[Alex Burghart]

I really struggle with that line of questioning. Opposition Members have very short memories. This was the worst pandemic that we have had in over a century. The pressures on Government were immense. The accusation that we bought too much PPE is akin to people standing up in 1945 and saying that the Government bought too many Spitfires.

[Vicky Ford (Chelmsford) (Con)]

3. What steps his Department is taking to strengthen cyber-security.

--- Later in debate ---

[Paul Howell (Sedgefield) (Con)]

8. What steps his Department is taking to improve access to public sector procurement processes for small and medium-sized businesses.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)]

The Procurement Act 2023 will deliver simpler and more effective public sector procurement, and it will help SMEs secure a greater share of approximately £300 billion of expenditure every year. The Act includes a new duty on contracting authorities to have regard to the particular barriers facing SMEs and to consider how they can be overcome.

[Sir David Davis]

To some extent, SMEs have historically been blocked out by large companies. This week it was reported that the Government tried to block Fujitsu from bidding for future contracts, on the basis of woeful performance in previous contracts. Government lawyers have advised that this cannot be done, but they are wrong. Will the Government give further serious thought to blocking large companies with terrible track records, such as Fujitsu, from bidding for future contracts and, if necessary, legislate accordingly?

[Alex Burghart]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his question. As he will know, there are clearly defined circumstances in which the Government can exclude companies from bidding for contracts. With regard to Fujitsu, he may be interested to hear that this morning the Cabinet Office received a letter from Fujitsu voluntarily undertaking not to bid for Government contracts while the inquiry is ongoing, unless of course the Government asked it to do so.

[Paul Howell]

When it comes to small and medium-sized enterprises getting Government contracts, sometimes the devil is in the detail and the unintended consequences. One business has told me that the prior year turnover to contract ratio restriction in public procurement is hindering the growth of businesses such as Kromek in NETPark, Sedgefield, forcing them to surrender margins to prime contractors and meet the contracting eligibility requirements, costing the UK Government the best innovation and costing SMEs growth. Will the Minister please commit to exploring alternative measures for assessing contract eligibility, including looking at the model of the US Government and their associated agencies?

[Alex Burghart]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. I know that he will have followed the passage of the Procurement Act 2023 through Parliament closely, as will businesses in his constituency—particularly SMEs, I hope. He will have seen that the Act removes unnecessary obstacles relating to audited accounts and insurance for the conditions of participation, meaning that small businesses will no longer be shut out of the procurement process or incur unnecessary costs. That duty that I referred to earlier for those procuring Government contracts to consider how to remove barriers to SMEs will really change the landscape for our small and medium-sized enterprises.

[John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)]

In his reply to the right hon. Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Sir David Davis), the Minister totally missed the point, because he referred to defined reasons why companies could be excluded. The Government and Parliament make the rules. They have been dragging their feet month after month, year after year, on changing that in this regard, but also in terms of supporting domestic industry, as every other major economy does. When will they sort this out and get it down to the House and into the rules, over civil service intransigence and delaying tactics?

[Alex Burghart]

The right hon. Gentleman will have heard what I just said to my right hon. Friend the Member for Haltemprice and Howden (Sir David Davis). I know that, as a lover of due process, he will believe that the statutory inquiry should appropriately have the final word on this. And when it does, we will have absolutely no compunction in acting.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

May I, too, convey my sympathies to the family of Tony Lloyd? I thank you, Mr Speaker, for allowing us the opportunity to come together more fully as a House to pay tribute.

I thank the Minister for his answer. My constituents in Strangford, and indeed people across Northern Ireland, including a large number of small and medium-sized enterprises and businesses—they create many jobs, wage packets and opportunities—very much want to be part of this process, and I know the Minister is keen to support us. What can be done for defence procurement, for example, and also for the food and agriculture sectors, because we have great companies that have the potential to do better. Can the Minister add his support?

[Alex Burghart]

I certainly can. As my hon. Friend will know, Northern Ireland agreed to be part of the new procurement regime when we passed the Procurement Act, which is fantastic. Sadly, that is unlike our friends in Scotland, who will miss out on all the benefits of the best modern procurement framework in the world. That means that small and medium-sized enterprises in his constituency will now have a better opportunity to bid for Government contracts. I very much enjoyed being in Northern Ireland at the end of last year. I am going again in the next few months and would be happy to meet any businesses that he would like to put me in touch with.

[David Duguid (Banff and Buchan) (Con)]

5. What steps he is taking to improve support for female veterans.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

13. What recent assessment he has made of the prevalence of the use of personal smartphones for conducting Government business by Ministers and officials.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)]

The Cabinet Office does not hold data centrally regarding personal smartphone use. We are committed to ensuring that Government business is conducted securely and to supporting individuals in meeting their security responsibilities. In March last year, we published guidance concerning the use of non-corporate communication channels for Government business, which set out considerations around the use of private devices.

[Mr Carmichael]

I may be part of a very small and shrinking group, but I think it is sensible that Ministers, officials and advisers should be able to share their thinking and thoughts in private on occasion. However, the truth of matter is that the constant drip of stories—whether about Boris Johnson, Nicola Sturgeon or anybody else—and WhatsApp messages not being available to hold people accountable, is harming public confidence in government and politics. Will the Minister look again at this to see how we can have good, accountable and transparent government?

[Alex Burghart]

The right hon. Gentleman raised important points. I draw his attention to the document we published last year: “Using non-corporate communication channels (e.g. WhatsApp, private email, SMS) for government business”. I think he will be particularly interested in the summary table on page two.

[Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con)]

14. What steps his Department is taking to increase transparency in the honours system.

--- Later in debate ---

[Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab)]

The right hon. Lady has just spoken about the integrity of the honours system, but the Government have failed to be transparent around the interests of Baroness Mone in the PPE Medpro contracts, where over £200 million was wasted. We have no answer from the Government as to why the links were not made public at the time; no answer as to why a Government Minister did not correct the wrong impression that had been given in public; and no answer in response to the allegation that the Government indicated a National Crime Agency investigation would be dropped if the civil claim was settled. Back on 18 December, Labour called on the Government to order an urgent investigation into this matter to give taxpayers the answers they deserve, but the Deputy Prime Minister has not even responded to the letter. Is the reason the Government are so afraid of an investigation that it will just show, once again, Tory sleaze?

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)]

We have responded.

[Nick Thomas-Symonds]

You have not responded.

[Alex Burghart]

Have you not had our letter?

[Nick Thomas-Symonds]

I have not had it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)]

T6.   May I first associate myself with the Deputy Prime Minister’s words about the royal family?On 23 February, this House has the opportunity to correct the constitutional sexism that means that one eighth of the seats in the other place are reserved for men only. Will the Government support and work with me on my Hereditary Titles (Female Succession) Bill to ensure that the succession of peerages moves in line with that of the Crown?

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)]

I thank my hon. Friend for her question and the work she has done in this area; I know she has thought about it a great deal. I will be writing to her in due course. It is a complicated area of constitutional law, but we appreciate the position from which she is coming.

[Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab)]

T3. In light of the shocking revelation that only 2% of the tip-offs received by the Government’s covid fraud hotline are being actively pursued, can the Secretary of State explain to an increasingly despairing nation what steps the Government are taking to recover every single penny of that fraudulently claimed taxpayer money?

--- Later in debate ---

[Helen Hayes (Dulwich and West Norwood) (Lab)]

T5. This week, the head of the National Audit Office told Parliament that between £4 billion and £8 billion of annual efficiencies could be achieved by better use of competition. When so many areas of our public services are on their knees and would benefit from that funding, can the Secretary of State set out what steps he is taking to stop this colossal waste of taxpayers’ money?

[Alex Burghart]

Better competition and better procurement are at the heart of the Procurement Act 2023, which the hon. Lady will have seen go through the House of Commons and the House of Lords last year. The Act creates a world-leading framework for the good use of public money in acquiring goods and services.

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

T7. As others have said this morning, every week victims of the contaminated blood scandal will die as we wait for the final report. We know the will of the House on this. Why do constituents have to wait any longer for the compensation scheme? Yes, it is complex, but the Government have been repeatedly challenged on getting on with this and they are still not doing it. We need it urgently.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Ind)]

In 2012, the Cabinet Office rejected my request that it fund the forensic investigation into the Horizon IT system by Second Sight. Indeed, the Cabinet Office insisted that the Post Office pay for its own investigation, which ultimately allowed the Post Office to try to control and coerce the lead investigator Ron Warmington, thus delaying justice for the sub-postmasters. Will the Minister look into the reasoning behind this historic decision and write to me about it, please?

[Alex Burghart]

I am happy to do that.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

What discussions has the Minister had with the Police Service of Northern Ireland’s cyber protect team in relation to learning the hard lessons that have arisen from the numerous data breaches of office information across the PSNI and throughout the United Kingdom?

Cabinet Office

Alex Burghart Excerpts

Wednesday 10th January 2024 Ministerial Corrections

[Alex Burghart]

I very much encourage my hon. Friend to take this matter up with the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero, but for my part I understand that anyone bidding for contracts for difference, our main renewable support scheme, must submit supply chain plans, including how many applicants will support SMEs.

[Official Report, 23 November 2023, Vol. 741, c. 440.]

Letter of correction from the Parliamentary Secretary at the Cabinet Office, the hon. Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Alex Burghart):

An error has been identified in my response to my hon. Friend the Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) in Cabinet Office questions. My response should have been:

[Alex Burghart]

I very much encourage my hon. Friend to take this matter up with the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero, but for my part I understand that any large project bidding for contracts for difference, our main renewable support scheme, must submit supply chain plans, including how many applicants will support SMEs.

Government Transparency and Accountability

Alex Burghart Excerpts

Thursday 14th December 2023 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)]

Since 2010, the Government have been at the forefront of opening up data to allow Parliament, the press and the public to hold public bodies to account.

Transparency is crucial to delivering value for money, cutting waste and inefficiency, and ensuring every pound of taxpayers’ money is spent in the best possible way. The Government will continue to look at how the range of information published by the Government can be improved and made as useful as possible. The following subject areas include documents and information that the Government are due to publish.

Transparency on Ministers, Special Advisers and Senior Civil Servants



Departments publish details of their Ministers’, special advisers’ and senior civil servants’ meetings, gifts, hospitality and travel on a quarterly basis. To support these publications, the Cabinet Office provides guidance to Departments on how this data should be prepared and released.

As part of the Government response to reports by the Boardman review, the Committee on Standards in Public Life and the Public Administration and Constitutional Affairs Committee on strengthening ethics and integrity in central Government, and in line with its commitment to transparency, the Cabinet Office will be publishing online, for the first time, a substantial update to this guidance.

The updated guidance will clarify and expand on a number of requirements, such as strengthening meeting purpose descriptions, expanding the number of senior civil servants required to publish details of their meetings and setting a target, for the first time, to publish within 90 days of the end of a given quarter.

The updated guidance will be published on gov.uk, and take effect from January 2024 onwards. Publishing the guidance online is also intended to aid public understanding of this data.

Departments will also be publishing, today, routine data on Ministers’, special advisers’ and senior civil servants’ meetings, gifts, hospitality and travel for the period of July to September 2023. The data covers the returns for the Prime Minister, the Leaders of the House of Commons and the House of Lords and the Government Chief Whip, as well as the Cabinet Office.

List of Ministers’ interests

An updated list of Ministers’ interests for all Departments is also being published today by the Independent Adviser on Ministers’ interests.

Freedom of information

The Cabinet Office has published technical guidance which it has issued to freedom of information practitioners across central Government on the approach to be taken when a requestor asks for disclosure in a spreadsheet format. Any disclosure of information under the Freedom of Information Act needs to comply with the UK GDPR and the Data Protection Act 2018 by ensuring that appropriate measures are in place to safeguard against inappropriate disclosure of personal data, such as that released inadvertently by the Police Service of Northern Ireland. The guidance, which is on gov.uk, is in addition to that given on the “Means of Communication” in the FOI code of practice, and will be revised in due course.

Prompt payment data

Government Departments have a target to pay 90% of the valid and undisputed invoices received from private sector suppliers within five working days and 100% within 30 calendar days. Departments are required to report their performance against these targets on a quarterly basis. In Q1 and Q2 of the 2023-24 financial year, this Department paid 81% and 82% respectively of the valid and undisputed invoices it received from private sector suppliers within five working days and 95% and 93% respectively within 30 calendar days.

There are active measures in place to improve results and in Q3 to date we have seen some improvements. New data will be published on gov.uk next year and I have written to officials in the Department reminding them of the importance of prompt payment especially for small and medium-sized enterprises.

[HCWS138]

Draft Digital Government (Disclosure of Information) (Identity Verification Services) Regulations 2023

Alex Burghart Excerpts

Wednesday 13th December 2023 General Committees

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Digital Government (Disclosure of Information) (Identity Verification Services) Regulations 2023.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Gary.

The draft regulations are an important part of the Government’s commitment to strengthen the use of data and information across the public sector, so that we can deliver better and more joined-up services and, in turn, improve outcomes for our citizens. The aim is to allow information sharing between named bodies for the specific purpose of supporting cross-government identity checking when it is needed.

Verifying a user’s identity—ensuring that a person is who they say they are—is a key part of delivering many government services. The draft regulations enable this by establishing a new data-sharing objective under section 35 of the Digital Economy Act 2017 and by setting out which public bodies may use the new objective. That will create a legislative gateway, enabling us to use existing data sets that public bodies already hold to help as many people as possible to access the government services they need online. It is therefore central to the development of more inclusive and accessible systems.

Specifically, the proposed objective would unlock the full benefits of the new cross-government digital system known as GOV.UK One Login. This is now live. Users are able to set up an account, log in and prove their identity in order to access an initial set of 27 government services, with more being added all the time. That is a step change in the provision of simple and joined-up access to government services online. It is delivering substantial cost and time savings for the Government and for users by reducing duplication and providing enhanced capability to identify and stop fraudsters.

At the moment, however, users of One Login must have photographic documentation such as a passport or driving licence. That will change following the introduction of the new objective, as it will unlock new ways for people without photo ID to prove who they are, opening up the system to more users. In summary, the proposed objective will: enable checks against existing government-held information such as PAYE and benefits data to build confidence in a user’s identity; provide a specific legal framework for checks against documents currently used in identity verification such as driving licences; and provide a specific legal framework for sharing the results of identity checks performed by one named body with another, so that users only need to prove their identity once to access all the services they need.

The draft regulations apply to the relevant bodies already listed in schedule 4 to the Digital Economy Act, such as His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs and the Department for Work and Pensions. They also add four new public bodies to the schedule: the Cabinet Office; the Department for Transport; the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs; and the Disclosure and Barring Service. The public bodies listed in the regulations either hold information that could be used in support of proving that someone is who they say they are, or own and manage services that people need to access and therefore need to receive the results of identity checks. Some public bodies do both.

The territorial extent of the draft regulations is England, Wales and Scotland. The Information Commissioner’s Office and the devolved Administrations support the regulations. Indeed, the Scottish and Welsh Administrations have requested that certain devolved bodies already listed in schedule 4 be able to use the new power.

I am sure hon. Members will be pleased to know that the draft regulations have been subject to the standard rigorous processes of internal and external review. In the first instance, the objective has been subject to scrutiny by the Public Service Delivery Review Board, as set out in the underpinning code of practice on public service delivery, debt and fraud under the Digital Economy Act. The board recommended that Ministers proceed with the draft regulations since they meet the required criteria of supporting the improvement, or targeting of, public services to individuals in order to enhance their wellbeing.

Furthermore, the objective has been subject to a public consultation, which received many responses. Some respondents recognised the benefits to individuals of improved and more inclusive services. Some, however, expressed concern that it was a back-door route to identity cards. That concern was mistaken. In response to the consultation, the Government confirmed that they have no plans to introduce mandatory digital identity or identity cards.

We also published additional information on how GOV.UK One Login will operate within the draft regulations and within the overall data protection framework. We extended the time between the regulations being approved and coming into force, and we amended some of the wording to reflect that of the Act.

The Government of course understand that people want to protect their personal information. I want to emphasise that that is central to our approach in developing both the draft regulations and the One Login system. Bodies that use this legislation will be required to do so with a robust set of controls that are designed to ensure that the data sharing is limited and to protect the individual.

The draft regulations relate only to using data for the purposes of identity verification. Part 5 of the Digital Economy Act 2017 gives Government powers to share personal information across organisational boundaries to improve public services. It lays down what data can be shared and for which purposes. Data sharing must also have regard to the accompanying statutory code of practice on public service delivery, debt and fraud, which sets out how the power must be operated including how any data shared must be processed lawfully, securely and proportionately in compliance with data protection legislation and UK GDPR.

The Digital Economy Act code of practice on public service delivery, debt and fraud also requires that information-sharing agreements be listed in a public register of information-sharing activity under the powers. The framework for data sharing under the DEA provides a supportive background to help organisations share data in ways that benefit the public, as confirmed by the Information Commissioner’s Office in its recent review. It includes robust safeguards that ensure organisations share data responsibly and in alignment with data protection principles, while also safeguarding people’s rights. I hope that colleagues will join me in supporting the draft regulations.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alex Burghart]

The right hon. Member for Leicester South asked me to be brief, so I will be. The whole notion of consent is wrapped up in how the regulations have been put together. That is to say, the DEA provides the framework for consent. On complaints, I refer him to One Login’s privacy notice. I am pleased to tell him that we are on track to deliver One Login on time and in the near future.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Alex Burghart Excerpts

Thursday 23rd November 2023 Commons Chamber

[James Murray (Ealing North) (Lab/Co-op)]

13. What steps he is taking with Cabinet colleagues to help ensure value for money in public procurement.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)]

Value for money is central to the Government’s long-standing procurement policy, as set out in everybody’s favourite Treasury document, “Managing Public Money”. Current procurement regulations require contracting authorities to select the most economically advantageous tender. The Procurement Act 2023—I am pleased to say that it has recently received Royal Assent—will streamline procurement processes and ensure that value for money remains one of the central tenets of the UK’s procurement regime.

[Liz Twist]

If the Minister thinks that every pound of taxpayers’ money matters, what are the Government’s plans to recover the loss of billions of pounds in flawed covid contracts?

[Alex Burghart]

I am pleased to be able to remind the House that the Government have already taken extraordinary steps to recover fraud money during the covid period. His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs remains committed to the recovery of covid-19 support scheme fraud. The Government are also committed to bearing down on fraud in the covid loan schemes. Some £13.2 million has been allocated to the National Investigation Service over three years to double its investigative capacity on bounce back loans and to fund other activities. This is just a small sample of the work being done to combat fraud across our Government.

[James Murray]

Further to the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for Blaydon (Liz Twist), billions of pounds of public money was wasted during the covid pandemic through dodgy contracts that we know were signed off by the Government. Labour has said that we will appoint a covid corruption commissioner to pursue every pound of public money that has been inappropriately lost from pandemic-related contracts, fraud and waste. Will the Minister borrow our plans?

[Alex Burghart]

I am sure the hon. Gentleman will have noted—I imagine he pays attention to such things—that we already set out in the spring statement last year the public sector fraud authority, which is based in the Cabinet Office and very ably handled by my colleague Baroness Neville-Rolfe. We have debated fraud during covid many times in the House. All the contracts handed out during covid were signed off by extremely able and capable civil servants who were working in very difficult circumstances and the idea that there was ministerial sign off of these things is wrong and must be contradicted whenever it is raised.

[Greg Clark (Tunbridge Wells) (Con)]

It is clear from the Chancellor’s autumn statement yesterday that we will need to make savings in public sector budgets for some years to come to overcome the impact of inflation, so can the Minister say how artificial intelligence will play a role in that in the public sector and what efforts he is making to procure the necessary systems?

[Alex Burghart]

My right hon. Friend makes an excellent point. We are still coming to terms with the potential of artificial intelligence to speed up Government processes, improve productivity and deliver value for money for the taxpayer. While we have procurement frameworks at present that help Departments across Government identify good AI systems they might wish to secure, we are also interested in developing our own AI within Government. My right hon. Friend the Deputy Prime Minister announced earlier this week that we would hire more people with the highest levels of innovative skill to come into Government to build those systems for us and deliver value for money.

[Dame Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

3. What progress he has made on implementing the final recommendations on compensation in the second interim report of the infected blood inquiry, published on 5 April 2023.

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[Martin Vickers (Cleethorpes) (Con)]

4. What steps his Department is taking to improve access to public sector procurement processes for small and medium-sized businesses.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)]

The Procurement Act 2023 will deliver simpler, more effective public sector procurement and help small and medium-sized enterprises secure a greater share of approximately £300 billion of expenditure per year. The Act places a requirement on contracting authorities to assess the particular barriers facing SMEs throughout the entire procurement life cycle and to consider what can be done to overcome them.

[Martin Vickers]

The renewable energy sector offers great opportunities for SMEs to become involved in the supply chain. Many of them are unaware of the public sector tenders that are out there. What are the Government doing to ensure that SMEs are made more aware of the opportunities available?

[Alex Burghart]

I very much encourage my hon. Friend to take this matter up with the Department for Energy Security and Net Zero, but for my part I understand that anyone bidding for contracts for difference, our main renewable support scheme, must submit supply chain plans, including how many applicants will support SMEs. The Department is also consulting on reforms that will give greater revenue support to applicants using more sustainable supply chains, including those that make greater use of SMEs.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for his response and the hon. Member for Cleethorpes (Martin Vickers) for raising this matter. Northern Ireland, and particularly my constituency of Strangford, have a great many small and medium-sized businesses that depend greatly on opportunities for Government contracts. What discussions has the Minister had with the Department of Finance in Northern Ireland on a united approach, similar to that referred to by the hon. Member for Cleethorpes? I would love to see that in Northern Ireland.

[Alex Burghart]

My hon. Friend will be pleased to hear, and will remember from discussions we had as the Procurement Act 2023 was making its way through Parliament, that Northern Ireland will benefit from the new post-EU regime that we have brought in. Unlike our friends in Scotland, who chose to opt out, England, Wales and Northern Ireland have been able to shrug off the overly bureaucratic regime that we inherited from the EU and create, alongside small and medium-sized businesses, a brand-new way of doing things. I know that small and medium-sized enterprises in his constituency will ultimately benefit from that.

[Siobhain McDonagh (Mitcham and Morden) (Lab)]

5. Whether he has had discussions with the independent adviser on Ministers’ interests on declarations of interest by the Secretary of State for Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Affairs.

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[Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab)]

10. What recent assessment he has made with Cabinet colleagues of the potential impact of the border target operating model on cross-border flows of goods.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)]

The Government are delivering an ongoing programme of engagement with stakeholders across all sectors in all parts of the country and with key European Union trading partners to ensure goods continue to move across the border. We have not identified any specific risk to the cross-border flow of goods.

[Daniel Zeichner]

It has been a very long wait to get border checks in place on the UK side. What evidence does the Minister have that EU businesses have the appropriate systems in place, including enough vets, to make them work smoothly? What estimate has he made of the impact on UK food security?

[Alex Burghart]

The whole purpose of the exercise is to ensure that we have UK food security. The border target operating model will implement its next three major milestones on 31 January 2024, 30 April 2024 and 31 October 2024, which means that the regime will be introduced by increments. This will be good for British food and good for British animals.

[David Linden (Glasgow East) (SNP)]

11. What assessment he has made of the adequacy of the list of Ministers’ interests in ensuring that Ministers (a) declare and (b) avoid any conflict of interest.

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[Jon Trickett (Hemsworth) (Lab)]

15. What steps he is taking to increase transparency of lobbying by businesses.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)]

The Government outlined wide-ranging improvements to transparency in lobbying in their policy statement “Strengthening Ethics and Integrity in Central Government”, which was published in July. They include revising guidance to widen the range of lobbying engagements declared by Departments, and linked reforms of the consultant lobbying framework.

[Jon Trickett]

If you are one of the tens of thousands of small and medium-sized enterprises bidding for contracts from the public sector, you will be met with a wall of bureaucratic paperwork designed to prevent relationships between the contractor and the service provider. If you are an ex-Prime Minister, you can make dozens of phone calls on behalf of an interest in which you seem to have been involved, including nine texts to the current Prime Minister. Is it not clear that that was reprehensible behaviour, and that the lobbying rules allowed it to happen? When will the Minister tighten the lobbying rules properly to prevent people from being able to benefit from the old system of “It is not what you know, but who you know”?

[Alex Burghart]

I refer the hon. Gentleman to my previous answer; we have published a document called “Strengthening Ethics and Integrity in Central Government”.

On small and medium-sized enterprises, I am delighted to be able to tell the hon. Gentleman that the Procurement Act 2023, which recently received Royal Assent, will make life much easier for SMEs that want to do business with the Government and get a share of the £300 billion of public procurement this Government have to offer.

[Kate Osamor (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

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[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

T8. My constituents who run small and medium-sized enterprises constantly complain about their ability to get Government contracts. The passing of the Procurement Act 2023 will obviously make that a lot easier. Will my right hon. Friend update the House on when that will be enacted? What will be the benefits to SMEs not only in my constituency but across the country?

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that the Procurement Act is a landmark piece of legislation that is going to make life considerably easier for SMEs, and it will do that in a number of ways. A new online procurement platform will make it easier for people to enter information once and use it many times, and make it easier to see the pipeline of upcoming contracts. Crucially, contracting authorities will also now have to have regard to the needs of SMEs in order to break down barriers and give them a bigger share of the pie.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

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[Jon Trickett (Hemsworth) (Lab)]

T3. Palantir has this week received one of the largest contracts imaginable. The company is based in silicon valley in California. It was established by the CIA and it has continuing links with the American defence network. It looks as though huge amounts of British NHS money and profits will be migrating back across the pond to California, but the most concerning thing is that information about millions of our fellow citizens—their health data—will be handled by that company. How can that be right?

[Alex Burghart]

Obviously, any contract of any size that the Government deal with—the Department of Health and Social Care and the NHS in this case—goes through an extremely detailed and careful process in order to ensure that we get the best value for money for the British public, that we help our public services solve the problems they face and that national security is maintained. If the hon. Gentleman has a problem with a particular element of that contract, he should bring it before the House. Otherwise, I believe he is just scare- mongering.

[Sir Christopher Chope (Christchurch) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend help with a situation where Thales, the French defence contractor, and its UK subsidiary are insisting that materials should be procured not from the UK, but from India. How is that consistent with the Government’s procurement policy?

Cabinet Office

Alex Burghart Excerpts

Tuesday 7th November 2023 Ministerial Corrections

[Mr Sheerman]

Will this team wake up? They have huge potential in the Cabinet Office to influence every Department of State. From my perspective, as a passionate supporter of sustainable transport and particularly the revolution that is coming in hydrogen power, I see an inert Department not pushing other Departments to do better. Could they wake up and do something about this?

[Alex Burghart]

I can think of nothing nicer than being woken up by the hon. Gentleman. I can reassure him that we do encourage our colleagues in other Departments to go further on this. We have a range of carbon offsetting programmes in place and, as I say, our location strategy means that we try to locate people near public transport hubs. This is the very essence of a green transport strategy.

[Official Report, 7 September 2023, Vol. 737, c. 532.]

Letter of correction from the Parliamentary Secretary in the Cabinet Office, the hon. Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Alex Burghart):

An error has been identified in my response to the hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) during Cabinet Office questions. The correct response should have been:

[Alex Burghart]

I can think of nothing nicer than being woken up by the hon. Gentleman. I can reassure him that we do encourage our colleagues in other Departments to go further on this. We have one carbon offsetting programme in place and, as I say, our location strategy means that we try to locate people near public transport hubs. This is the very essence of a green transport strategy.

Honesty in Politics

Alex Burghart Excerpts

Monday 23rd October 2023 Westminster Hall

[Sir Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

I was not intending to make any allegations about any sitting Members, but I might refer to a couple of former sitting Members and others. It is a great delight to have you in the Chair, Mrs Murray, and to have this debate. It is only a sadness that, of course, it is in competition with very serious matters in the House of Commons Chamber this afternoon.

There is an irony that it is the fundamental assumption of the House of Commons that every single Member always speaks the truth to the best of their knowledge, understanding and ability. Of course, sometimes we get things wrong by mistake; we accidentally misspeak and all the rest of it, but it is the fundamental assumption of the House of Commons that every single Member always speaks the truth, the whole truth and nothing but the truth.

However, it is the absolute presumption of every single member of the public these days that, every time a Member of Parliament opens their mouth, whether in the House of Commons or outside Parliament, we are lying. I cannot tell you, Mrs Murray, how many times I have heard that. We have all known it. We have all seen it on the Twittersphere—I cannot bring myself to call it X any more; it seems a very odd name. It is the working assumption of lots of people, and it is considerably worse than when I first arrived in the House. I cannot remember when you first arrived, Mrs Murray, but I arrived in 2001—I think I am the longest-standing Member present this afternoon. It was nowhere near that bad back in 2001. The statistics have got worse in every decade since the second world war, and the public are now at catastrophically low levels of trust in what politicians say. That is truly problematic.

Of course, as I said, we all make mistakes. I have made mistakes. I have had to correct the record several times. Sometimes, entirely inadvertently, one says “million” when one meant “billion”. Sometimes one gets the name of a country wrong. These things happen. Sometimes I have said “Labour” when I meant “Conservative”, or “Conservative” when I meant “Labour”. Sometimes we just have to correct the record, but it is not that easy for a Back-Bench Member. There is not, at the moment, a formal process for us to do so. We can do a point of order, although sometimes we may feel—I know I can be pompous anyway—

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)]

No!

[Sir Chris Bryant]

Oi.

We can feel phenomenally pompous when raising a point of order about some minor correction of the record and can kind of think that we are wasting the House’s time. I really hope that tomorrow afternoon we vote through the amendment that will allow for the process to correct the record—which we introduced in government in 2007—to apply not just to Ministers but to all Back Benchers. We all know times when we wish we could have been able to correct the record. The good thing about this is that it will correct the original moment in Hansard. At present, if I were to say something foul that I believed to be true about a member of your family, Mrs Murray—I would not be able to say it about you, because of the rules that you have already laid out—but I subsequently found it to be untrue, it would still stand in the original Hansard even if I corrected the record two days later. But if the motion goes through tomorrow, we will be able to correct that problem in the present system.

The hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk (Martyn Day) spoke very eloquently at the beginning of the debate on behalf of the Petitions Committee. I think his heart was in it and he was not just doing it for the Petitions Committee. He referred to the term “bad apple”. Now, I dislike this term, because I think people believe it means, “Oh, there are just some bad apples, but everybody else is okay.” That has never been the meaning of the proverb, which goes all the way back to Chaucer. In “The Cook’s Tale”, one of the pilgrims refers to the one bad apple spoiling the whole barrel. That is the point—there needs to be just one bad apple to spoil the whole barrel, which I honestly think is what has happened in this Parliament.

We need to be terribly cognisant of the fact that 25 MPs in this Parliament since 2019 have been suspended for a day or more or have left Parliament before a report on their misconduct was produced to the House. That is 25 out of 650 of us, which is a record by a country mile. The Clerk of the House tells me that a country mile is as far as someone can see into the distance, to the horizon. I think that it has become normalised for some of our colleagues. I will not refer to specific individuals, but the whole idea of a meat tax theoretically being proposed by the Labour party—which has never, ever been proposed by the Labour party—is a flat-out, blatant lie.

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[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Alex Burghart)]

It is a pleasure to have the opportunity to respond in this important and wide-ranging debate, which touches on one of the fundamentals of the unwritten constitution: honesty. It is fundamental not only to our relationship with the public, but to our relationship with each other, and to the relationship that everyone in society has with one another. Without honesty, democracy cannot work properly, and society cannot work properly either.

All credit to Members on all sides of the House: everyone has raised important examples—[Interruption.] This side of the House is being represented—it is being represented now. Members across the Floor have raised important examples of Members being found wanting—often not examples from within their own parties, of course, but examples nonetheless. I toyed with the idea of finding examples of dishonesty from within the ranks of the SNP, Plaid Cymru, the Liberal Democrats and Labour, but we all know that they are out there and I do not wish to engage in that sort of knockabout, much though the hon. Member for Llanelli (Dame Nia Griffith) tempted me by not mentioning certain things that occurred when her party was last in power.

Through the petitions, the question before us is how we improve honesty. The petitions set out a particular route; the question is whether that is the right and appropriate route. I have to be clear with the House immediately that I do not think it is, for the reasons set out by the hon. Member for Rhondda (Sir Chris Bryant). If honesty is one of the core values of our system, parliamentary privilege and freedom of speech within Parliament is one of the absolute pillars of the modern constitution—and not just in the modern constitution. The Bill of Rights 1689, in article 9, states that,

“The freedom of speech and debates or proceedings in Parliament ought not to be impeached or questioned in any court or place out of Parliament.”

Perhaps closer to the heart of the hon. Member for Linlithgow and East Falkirk who opened the debate is the Claim of Right Act 1689 from the Convention of the Estates in Scotland, which states,

“That for redress of all greivances and for the amending strenthneing and preserveing of the lawes Parliaments ought to be frequently called and allowed to sit and the freedom of speech and debate secured to the members”.

That was not even a new idea in the late 17th century. We know that it was a principle upheld in the reign of Queen Elizabeth I, and there is a case from 1455, of a Member called Younge who proved that he had been unduly punished because of something that he had said in the House. The House agreed that there was

“The olde liberty and freedom of the Commons of this land…to speak and say in the House…without any manner of challenge, charge or punishment.”

Even in 1455, it was considered to be an old privilege. There are examples from the late 14th century that may show likewise, but they are more contested.

It would seem that one of the founding principles of parliamentary debate is that people should be free from interference when they speak. It stands to reason that within Parliament people will not always agree. Of course, that does not give everyone the right to say whatever they like. The House has means of regulating its own behaviour.

The example that the hon. Member for Rhondda gave was far better than the made-up example that I had in my head. The consequences of success for petitions such as these is that the hon. Member will stand up and make a criticism of an oligarch; that oligarch has very deep pockets, and will find a way to get him into court. Even if the hon. Member wins, which he would do, he might find that legal process very expensive—so expensive that the next time he stood up he might genuinely think twice about what he said. It would not just be him; every Member of the House would think twice before they spoke on a contentious issue. That would have a supremely damaging effect on the honesty of discourse. Honesty is not just about what someone says; it is sometimes about what someone chooses not to say, and not to stand up against.

I do not believe it would stop there. Not only would there be rich individuals who sought to intimidate Members of the House, but there would be campaigning organisations with very deep pockets that would go after individuals who spoke on certain subjects and seek to clamp down on debate in certain areas. That would have a very damaging effect on our democracy. That is why, in my opinion and the opinion of the Government, the House has to grant those privileges and find means and mechanisms for self-regulation. That is why it is such an important and long-standing principle.

Hon. Members have raised interesting ideas about how those processes can be improved. I will not go into those today, but it is good that they have had the opportunity to air them here. If we were to accept the ideas put down in the petitions, though, we would be accepting—nay, sanctioning—the legal intimidation of MPs in the House of Commons. I am afraid that is something that this Government will not support.