Dr Lauren Sullivan (Gravesham) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Matthew Patrick)
May I associate myself with your tribute to Karen, Mr Speaker? I also wish you, your team and the whole House a happy new year.
The Secretary of State and I regularly meet Executive Ministers. I recently met the Education Minister, Paul Givan, to discuss integration in our schools. We have provided a record settlement of £19.3 billion for Northern Ireland to improve public services. I look forward to working with all Ministers in Northern Ireland as they deliver on their priorities in 2026.
Dr Sullivan
Happy new year, Mr Speaker.
This Government have delivered the largest funding settlement to Northern Ireland since devolution. In addition to that record support to Northern Ireland, and across the United Kingdom, what discussions is the Minister having on sharing best practice with Northern Ireland and across the wider United Kingdom?
Matthew Patrick
My hon. Friend is right to mention that record settlement, but it is not just a question of cutting a cheque and walking away; it is also about working and sharing best practice, as she mentioned. I have had conversations with the Northern Ireland Health Minister about how we can share best practice as part of our 10-year NHS plan, and I am confident that we can continue to work together to deliver better outcomes.
Sir Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con)
Can I press the Minister on the discussions he is having with the Executive on digital services? Dublin has just produced a very innovative digital services plan for public services. I urge the Government to talk closely with the Executive to ensure that Northern Ireland keeps pace with Dublin in that area.
Matthew Patrick
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question. I am very happy to ensure that that features in our conversations with Executive Ministers. Northern Ireland is leading the way in so many of these areas, so I will continue to have those conversations.
Mike Wood (Kingswinford and South Staffordshire) (Con)
Happy new year, Mr Speaker.
Policing numbers in Northern Ireland are at their lowest ever level. Both the Police Service of Northern Ireland and Policy Exchange have warned that reopening cases from the troubles will place a huge additional financial burden on the police, which would mean risks for both policing numbers and national security. Is the Minister happy with that situation? Will he let it happen, or will the Secretary of State be compensating the PSNI for the decisions made by his Department?
Matthew Patrick
A number of the cases are actually being taken away from the police service if the families refer those cases to the commission. As I mentioned in a previous answer, with a record settlement for Northern Ireland, it is for the Executive to determine how that money is spent, including how they are funding their police force.
Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)
The Minister will be aware that the Finance Minister yesterday, in an ill-considered way, published his budget—not an agreed budget—for consultation. The Minister will know the pressures associated with that decision and he will know the challenges that brings for politics in Northern Ireland. One thing that has been absent from the lexicon of politics in Northern Ireland over a number of years is the fiscal framework. Can he update us on where his Government are on negotiations with the Treasury and the Northern Ireland Executive?
Matthew Patrick
I am pleased that, as part of that consultation, there is a record settlement of £19.3 billion to fund those services. The negotiations that the right hon. Gentleman mentions are continuing.
Gavin Robinson
The Minister will also know of the pressures that affect our health service in Northern Ireland. Alarmingly, we understand that the European Union is going to ban the sale of antimicrobial drugs without prescription. Although that should not apply in Northern Ireland, it will. Some 60,000 products are sold over the counter. Our health service could not facilitate 60,000 additional GP appointments. This is an alarming development and I would like to hear the Minister indicate that he not only understands the severity and impact of it, but is going to take steps to address it.
Matthew Patrick
I am aware of the reforms that the right hon. Gentleman mentions. The Government share the EU’s ambition to take action against antimicrobial resistance, but I am also aware of the potential impact on Northern Ireland’s health service, particularly the demand for GP appointments, as he mentioned. We have raised this, and I will be happy to write to him with an update in due course.
Luke Akehurst (North Durham) (Lab)
Mr Paul Foster (South Ribble) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Hilary Benn)
I regularly meet a variety of stakeholders to talk about the Northern Ireland Troubles Bill, including veterans groups, political parties in Northern Ireland, and victims and families who are still living with the effects of those decades of terrible violence.
Luke Akehurst
No matter what unit they served in, veterans in North Durham are particularly concerned about the impact of the new legislation on those who served in the special forces. Can the Secretary of State reassure me that he has met the Special Air Service Regimental Association and is responding to its specific concerns?
Hilary Benn
I am very happy to give my hon. Friend that assurance. I did indeed meet the Special Air Service Regimental Association recently, as part of the discussions that I and my colleagues in the Ministry of Defence are having with veterans. We are listening to the concerns being expressed and, as I have said to the House on a number of occasions, we want to ensure that the legislation responds to them.
Mr Foster
Under the previous Government’s unlawful Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023, the Police Service of Northern Ireland was required to shut down more than 1,000 investigations, including 225 investigations into the deaths of soldiers and veterans. Will the Secretary of State please assure the families of murdered British armed forces personnel that, should they wish to approach the reformed commission, it will consider their case and may be able to provide them with the answers that many of them have long sought?
Hilary Benn
My hon. Friend is quite right to draw attention to one of the implications of the 2023 legacy Act in shutting down all those investigations. He is right that families are perfectly free to refer cases to the commission. I know that the commission is keen to investigate as many cases as come its way, in order to provide answers for those families, who have waited so long.
Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)
Engaging with and listening to stakeholders is good, but there needs to be a positive outcome to both. There also needs to be specific and clear references in the Bill to paramilitaries not being permitted to serve on the victims and survivors advisory group. Will that be the case?
Hilary Benn
I have already given the House that assurance from this Dispatch Box. When we consider the Bill in Committee, we will have the opportunity to debate the Bill in its current form and the many amendments that I can see have already been tabled.
David Davis (Goole and Pocklington) (Con)
The Secretary of State has stated many times that the previous Government’s legislation in this area had no support from political parties in Northern Ireland. Can he tell the House which political parties support his legislation?
Hilary Benn
All the political parties in Northern Ireland that expressed their profound opposition to immunity have welcomed the fact that immunity will go under the legislation that we have brought before the House—that includes the right hon. Member for Belfast East (Gavin Robinson), the DUP leader, who supports its removal. That is a sign that the Government have been listening to views in Northern Ireland. Unfortunately, the Legacy Act failed to do that.
Alex Burghart (Brentwood and Ongar) (Con)
Happy new year, Mr Speaker.
Over Christmas, seven former senior SAS officers wrote in The Telegraph:
“In this Troubles Bill, the Government is complicit in this war on our Armed Forces.”
A few days later, the Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner, appointed by this Government, said that the Bill treats veterans “worse than terrorists” and is
“eating at the very fabric of the Armed Forces”.
Can the Secretary of State tell the House which former senior officers support the Bill?
Hilary Benn
I do not agree with either of the characterisations that the hon. Gentleman just referred to. I am confident that the protections, which we have designed specifically for veterans, will change their experience in relation to the legacy process. However, as I have said to the House, we continue to talk to veterans and veterans organisations. I want to produce a Bill that can offer the reassurance they are looking for: that we have a fair and proportionate system that recognises their service to the country.
Alex Burghart
I note that the Secretary of State was unable to give a single example. There is, I am afraid, an ostrich-like complacency in the Government’s approach to this legislation. Senior representatives of our armed forces are telling this House that the legislation is impacting on morale and effectiveness. In November, nine former four-star generals argued that this “morally incoherent” Bill poses a
“direct threat to national security”.
Those generals tell us that highly trained members of special forces are already leaving the service, and by definition these men are very, very difficult to replace. No wonder The Times has said that
“a fundamental lack of political and military understanding lies at the heart of this Bill.”
Why do the Government think that they know better than our armed forces?
Hilary Benn
The Government had to do something about the previous Government’s failed legacy Act, which had no support in Northern Ireland. If one is seeking to help the people of Northern Ireland to deal with the continuing consequences of the troubles, the legislation has to have that support, and the previous Government failed to do that. On the impact on recruitment, as the hon. Gentleman will have heard when the Minister for the Armed Forces answered the urgent question on Monday, inflows continue to improve. Indeed, inflow is up by 13% this year compared with September 2024.
Mr Paul Kohler (Wimbledon) (LD)
Happy new year, Mr Speaker.
The Secretary of State was sitting alongside the Minister for the Armed Forces on Monday, when I asked him whether he was listening to the concerns of veterans regarding the Northern Ireland Troubles Bill. The Minister convinced me that he is listening, and we just heard the Secretary of State do likewise, but is anyone acting on those concerns? Before Christmas, at the Dispatch Box, the Secretary of State promised to write to me detailing which veterans groups he had met, but I have heard nothing since. I also wrote to the Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland to request a meeting to discuss veterans’ ongoing concerns, but I have heard nothing since. Will the Secretary of State please detail all the veterans groups he has met, and meet me to discuss their continuing concerns?
Hilary Benn
I apologise to the hon. Gentleman that he has not received the letter to which he referred, and I assure him that I will remedy that very promptly. Defence Ministers and I have met a large number of organisations, and I would just point out that none of the six protections that the Government have put forward were contained in the previous Government’s legacy Act—not a single one. We intend to continue to listen, and to respond to the concerns that have been raised.
Ruth Jones (Newport West and Islwyn) (Lab)
Tonia Antoniazzi (Gower) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Hilary Benn)
The European convention on human rights underpins not only the Good Friday agreement, but key international agreements on trade, security and migration. The Government are committed to the ECHR. We also remain determined to uphold the Good Friday agreement and human rights in Northern Ireland.
Ruth Jones
I thank the Secretary of State for that response. The Good Friday agreement was indeed a proud legacy of the last Labour Government, so does he agree that the reckless approach adopted by Opposition parties towards the ECHR risks undermining the huge progress made since 1998?
Hilary Benn
I do agree with my hon. Friend, and it is clear that those advocating leaving the ECHR have not given any serious consideration to the implications for the Good Friday agreement. Indeed, when pressed on that in the summer, the hon. Member for Clacton (Nigel Farage) noted that it could take
“years and years to solve, so that will not be at the forefront of what we do.”
I would simply say that that is not good enough, and that those who advocate leaving the ECHR need to reflect on what they are arguing for.
Peter Lamb
Given the chaos around the world that is being experienced by politicians playing fast and loose with international law, it is deeply concerning that Conservative and Reform MPs are speaking so flippantly of the risks of violating the Good Friday agreement by leaving the European convention on human rights. Will the Secretary of State give his assessment of the risk of that?
Hilary Benn
As I have told the House before, I think it would be extremely irresponsible. As the House needs no reminding, the Good Friday agreement was very carefully negotiated between several parties, and it would be reckless for one party to march in and seek to remove one of its founding pillars.
Jacob Collier
The European convention on human rights is foundational to the Good Friday agreement. Given that Reform and the Conservatives want to crash us out of the convention, does the Secretary of State agree that that would put at risk the Good Friday agreement and that they really ought to think again?
Hilary Benn
I agree with my hon. Friend. We need to remember that it is the Human Rights Act that gives all of us access to the rights and protections contained in the European convention on human rights. To leave it would put us alone in Europe, in the company of Russia and Belarus. Is that really where the Opposition want to be—welcomed with a pat on the back by President Putin?
Tonia Antoniazzi
Our predecessor Committee took evidence that said that leaving the ECHR would have implications for policing in Northern Ireland. Does the Secretary of State agree that calls to leave the ECHR would add to the challenges faced by the Police Service of Northern Ireland? What assessment has he made of the potential impact?
Hilary Benn
I agree that it could have very wide-ranging implications for Northern Ireland in particular, as well as for the rest of the country. I have not made such an assessment, because that is not a policy that the Government advocate. It is for those proposing to leave the ECHR to answer the very fair question that my hon. Friend has just raised.
Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)
It is plain wrong to say that the survival of the Belfast agreement is dependent on the ECHR. Why is the Secretary of State so selective in his Belfast agreement allegiance? It was he who implemented the jettisoning of the agreement’s cornerstone of cross-community consent when he invited the Northern Ireland Assembly to continue the imposition of the Windsor framework without cross-community consent. Is it only nationalist consent that matters to him under the Belfast agreement?
Hilary Benn
The steps that I took in relation to the vote on the renewal of the Windsor framework arrangements were absolutely in line with the provisions that were put in place by this House, and Lord Murphy produced his report as a result. The hon. and learned Gentleman will have seen the practical steps that the Government are taking in response to Lord Murphy’s very sensible recommendations.
Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)
How will the Secretary of State respond to troubles stakeholder groups that say that the rights of their members under articles 6 and 8 of the ECHR are being impugned by his maladroit Northern Ireland Troubles Bill?
Hilary Benn
It is for all those who wish to argue about the rights that they feel the ECHR and the Human Rights Act give them to do so. I simply say that, in bringing the Bill forward, I as the Minister responsible have certified that the Bill complies with the European convention.
Alex Easton (North Down) (Ind)
Is it not the case, as a matter of international law, that the United Kingdom could withdraw from the ECHR while at the same time ensuring that equivalent rights and protections are preserved in our domestic law?
Hilary Benn
The hon. Gentleman is correct to say that it is possible for signatories to the convention to withdraw, but it is a very bad idea and the Government do not support it.
John Cooper (Dumfries and Galloway) (Con)
Does the Secretary of State not agree with expert opinion that says that while we remain signatories to the ECHR, we will not be able to protect our veterans from vexatious litigation?
Hilary Benn
As I have said many times in the past, there is no such thing as vexatious prosecutions. The ECHR protects the rights of all our all citizens, including the veterans who served with such distinction in Operation Banner.
Jerome Mayhew (Broadland and Fakenham) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Hilary Benn)
Northern Ireland’s economy is one of the strongest of any part of the United Kingdom: it has the lowest unemployment and its economic growth outpaced the rest of the UK in the year ending the second quarter of 2025. That performance is being supported by this Government’s policies, including significant investment in economic development and a record settlement for the Executive.
Jerome Mayhew
Mr Speaker,
“a continuing cost-of-living crisis and a recent budget that failed to support workers, families and businesses in a meaningful way”.
It is not often that I agree with the First Minister but, with absolutely no action to address lagging productivity, she is right, isn’t she?
Hilary Benn
The Northern Ireland Executive have very considerable responsibilities in respect of the Northern Ireland economy. I note that the Finance Minister has published a draft three-year budget; the fact that we had a three-year spending review has given the Northern Ireland Executive the opportunity to do the same for the first time in a number of years. As the Minister said, there are choices that the Executive have to make—that is true of all Governments around the world—and I look forward to seeing the Executive come forward with a proposal for a balanced budget.
Claire Hanna (Belfast South and Mid Down) (SDLP)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Matthew Patrick)
Since becoming a Minister in the Northern Ireland Office, I have met Executive Ministers, building on the extensive engagement of my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State. Our discussions have been wide-ranging, and have included discussions on economic growth and transforming public services.
Claire Hanna
The Minister will be aware that for a number of months, I have been raising concerns about the local growth fund and its impact in Northern Ireland. Just before Christmas, organisations got the devastating news of a large cut to the local growth fund, which will devastate a number of support jobs and work done to help vulnerable people into meaningful employment. What steps will the Northern Ireland Office take to prevent the loss of those crucial support jobs, and to help put in place services to tackle our low productivity?
Matthew Patrick
I pay tribute to the great work done by the voluntary sector in Northern Ireland. I know that this has been a difficult time, which is why our engagement with the sector has been so important. I can assure my hon. Friend that that engagement will continue to be important, especially as we launch the local growth fund, which provides £45.5 million a year to support growth in Northern Ireland.
Sorcha Eastwood (Lagan Valley) (Alliance)
As we have just heard, Northern Ireland is operating under considerable budgetary constraints, and the local growth fund will cause huge damage. What can the Minister do to assure my constituents in Lagan Valley and people across Northern Ireland that he will listen to our concerns and act on them?
Matthew Patrick
We have put a record settlement of £19.3 billion into Northern Ireland. Obviously, that money can be used to support people. The local growth fund has been built for a year; it has been set aside to make sure that we can support the groups mentioned, and I will continue to engage with them.
Catherine Fookes (Monmouthshire) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Hilary Benn)
This Budget provided Northern Ireland with an additional £370 million, on top of the record settlement of £19.3 billion each year on average over the spending review period. The decisions we have taken will ease trade within the UK, and will ensure that families across Northern Ireland benefit from help with the cost of living, through policies such as cutting energy bills and lifting the two-child benefit cap.
Catherine Fookes
The £370 million for the Northern Ireland Executive in this year’s Budget, which the Secretary of State mentioned, and the £505 million for Wales, on top of the settlements announced at the spending review, show that this Government take supporting the devolved nations seriously. Does the Secretary of State agree that co-operation between the UK Government and the Northern Ireland Executive, and other devolved nations, is crucial to pulling children out of poverty, improving public services and kick-starting growth across the UK?
Hilary Benn
I do agree with my hon. Friend. That is why the Government’s decision to lift the two-child benefit cap was widely welcomed in Northern Ireland. I would also point out that Northern Ireland is being funded slightly above its level of need; it gets 24% more than equivalent spending in England, meaning that the Executive have more money to make their decisions with.
Robin Swann (South Antrim) (UUP)
When the Executive were restored two years ago, a fund was set up for the transformation of public services. As of yet, that money has not been fully allocated. Will the Secretary of State use his offices to encourage the Executive to deploy that transformation fund to transform Northern Ireland’s public services?
Hilary Benn
The public services transformation fund is a very important demonstration of the partnership between the UK Government and the Northern Ireland Executive. As the hon. Member will be well aware, the first six projects have been funded, and good progress is being made on them. The transformation board is currently considering bids that are coming in for the next phase of funding. Of course, we are keen—as are the Executive—to see that money spent on transformation of how public services are delivered in Northern Ireland, which is hugely needed.
Sarah Pochin (Runcorn and Helsby) (Reform)
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Hilary Benn)
The whole House will agree that we owe our Operation Banner veterans an enormous debt of gratitude. That is why the Government are introducing six protections for veterans involved in legal processes relating to their service. We are confident that this will change their experience and ensure that the process is fair and balanced.
Sarah Pochin
Does the Secretary of State agree with the Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner that the troubles Bill treats our brave veterans more harshly than terrorists?
Hilary Benn
I do not agree with that assessment. I have had many discussions with the Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner, and if one looks at the facts, including at the prosecutions that have taken place, there have been more prosecutions of paramilitary terrorists than of soldiers. Indeed, there has been one conviction of a soldier for a troubles-related offence in the past 27 and a half years.
Mr Speaker
Before we come to Prime Minister’s questions, I extend a warm welcome to the President of the House of Representatives of the Netherlands and his delegation, who are with us in the Gallery today.
Ruth Cadbury (Brentford and Isleworth) (Lab)
The Prime Minister (Keir Starmer)
I begin by saying that I hope all colleagues had a happy Christmas. It probably feels quite a long time ago now, but not for Reform, of course, because today is the day that they celebrate Christmas in Russia.
On Monday, I visited Reading, where I met people who will benefit from the first freeze in rail fares for 30 years. That is on top of other measures we are taking to tackle the cost of living—£150 off energy bills, more free breakfast clubs, and raising the minimum wage—and there is much more to come this year, as we turn the corner.
Yesterday, I stood side by side with our European and American allies and President Zelensky at the coalition of the willing meeting in Paris. We made real progress on security guarantees, which are vital for securing a just and lasting peace. Along with President Macron and President Zelensky, we agreed a declaration of intent on the deployment of forces in the event of a peace deal. We will set out the details in a statement at the earliest opportunity. I will keep the House updated as the situation develops, and were troops to be deployed under the declaration signed, I would put that matter to the House for a vote.
This morning, I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House, I will have further such meetings later today.
Ruth Cadbury
Leaseholders in my constituency and across the country are being fleeced by freeholders and managing agents. They need relief from both, and we need to end the feudal leasehold system, so can the Prime Minister confirm when the leasehold and commonhold reform Bill will come to Parliament?
The Prime Minister
I thank my hon. Friend for raising this important issue. We are taking serious action to deliver the homes that the country needs, and to provide homeowners with greater rights, powers and protections. We will publish the draft Bill as soon as possible, and I will update the House. More protections are already coming this year, of course, because we passed the Renters’ Rights Bill, which provides stronger protection for 9 million renters and abolishes no-fault evictions. That is the change we are delivering, and who voted against it? The Tories and Reform.
Mrs Kemi Badenoch (North West Essex) (Con)
May I welcome the Prime Minister’s efforts to advance peace in Ukraine, and his joint statement on Greenland? The last few days have seen significant international events, with the US operation in Venezuela, threats towards Greenland, and an agreement to put British troops on the ground in Ukraine. It is therefore frankly astonishing that the Prime Minister is not making a full statement to Parliament today. No Prime Minister—Labour or Conservative—has failed to make a statement to the House in person after committing to the deployment of British troops. His comments about making a statement in due course are frankly not good enough. It shows a fundamental lack of respect for all of us here, and for the people we represent.
The United States is Britain’s closest military ally. However, we are clear that the sovereignty of Greenland is sacrosanct, so can the Prime Minister tell us what influence he is bringing to bear on the United States Administration to ensure that that is respected?
The Prime Minister
Let me be very clear about what was agreed yesterday. Military plans were drawn up some months ago, and I have updated the House in relation to that. Yesterday’s was a political declaration that sits under those military plans. If there were to be deployment, there would have to be a legal instrument. Deployment would only be after a ceasefire, to support Ukraine’s capabilities, to conduct deterrent operations, and to construct and protect military hubs. There will be a statement to the House at the earliest opportunity. [Hon. Members: “When?”] There could hardly be an opportunity—[Interruption.] Opposition Members claim that they want to know about this, and they are trying to shout me down.
If there were a decision to deploy under the agreement that was signed yesterday, I would put that matter to the House for a debate beforehand and for a vote on that deployment. That is consistent with recent practice, and I will adhere to that.
Mrs Badenoch
Why is today not the earliest opportunity? The truth is that the Prime Minister does not want everybody in this House to be able to ask him questions, so he leaves that just to Prime Minister’s questions, which last for half an hour. At least on Monday his Foreign Secretary stood up to speak for two hours and 15 minutes. It was a non-event, but at least she did that. The Prime Minister is scared of our being able to ask him questions—six questions. [Interruption.] Yes, he is here—
Mr Speaker
Order. I have also requested an early statement; the House should always be informed first. I do not like the chuntering; let the questions continue.
Mrs Badenoch
Someone said, “He is here.” The Prime Minister has no choice but to be here for Prime Minister’s questions. That is why he is here. We know that if he could skip this, he would.
Let us return to the matter in hand. All of us, or at least most of us, agree that NATO is the bedrock of our security. The future of Greenland is of fundamental importance to the future of the alliance, and I am sure that the Prime Minister agrees that it is essential for NATO leaders, including and especially the United States, to meet. Will he call for an urgent meeting of NATO leaders?
The Prime Minister
The Leader of the Opposition says that she wants to hear about Ukraine. She has six questions, and she is not even asking a second question about what we did yesterday. She has the opportunity.
Mr Speaker
Order. May I help the Prime Minister? He does not need to worry about responsibility for the questions from the Opposition. That is their job.
The Prime Minister
NATO is the single most important and effective military alliance that the world has ever seen. In the 18 months for which we have been in power, I have done everything in my ability to strengthen NATO. We had one of the strongest NATO meetings last year at the summit, when we had more members of NATO and more unity. When I arrived back at the House to make a statement, which of course the Leader of the Opposition had asked for, her position was that I should not have missed Prime Minister’s questions; I should have empty-chaired the NATO summit. That is how serious she is about NATO.
Mrs Badenoch
The Prime Minister did not answer the question. I asked him whether he would call for an urgent meeting of NATO leaders. We can all see that the situation is moving rapidly. I also note that the Prime Minister has still not had a call with President Trump. That is concerning, four days after the events in Venezuela.
Yesterday, the Prime Minister announced that Britain and France had signed a political agreement to put troops on the ground in the event of a peace deal in Ukraine. Given that he is not making a statement about that deployment of British troops abroad—one of the most serious decisions that a Government and a Parliament can take, irrespective of what he says—can he at least tell the House how many troops would be sent to Ukraine, and whether they would be in a combat role?
The Prime Minister
I was with NATO allies yesterday all day, and we were discussing security in Europe, and particularly security guarantees for Ukraine. We made significant progress, and I am glad that the right hon. Lady has welcomed that. Of course I will speak to President Trump. I spoke to his senior advisers yesterday—we were with them all day.
She asks me about the deployment. We released the statement yesterday. It is clear from that, but I will be clear with the House that there would only be deployment after a ceasefire. It would be to support Ukraine’s capabilities, to conduct deterrence operations, and to construct and protect military hubs. The number will be determined in accordance with our military plans, which we are drawing up and looking to other members to support. I would put the number before the House before we were to deploy, but I would do more than that: if we got as far as the legal instrument to deploy, which would be necessary, I would have a debate in this House, so that all Members could know exactly what we were doing, and could give their points of view, and then we would have a vote in this House on the issue, which, to my mind, is the proper procedure in a situation such as this.
Mrs Badenoch
It is clear that the Prime Minister either does not have the detail or does not want to give us the detail, but this is important. He should be calling an urgent meeting of NATO leaders. He should have spoken to President Trump by now. This is important, because if any such peace deal is breached, we would be in direct conflict with Russia. If the Prime Minister is committing troops, he must give more detail on how he intends to ensure that our armed forces are fully resourced. Before the Budget, the Prime Minister said it was his “ambition” to spend 3% of GDP on defence in the next Parliament. That could be as late as 2034. It is time to move from ambition to commitment. We have had the Budget, so can the Prime Minister now tell us in what year the UK will spend 3% of GDP on defence?
The Prime Minister
On the serious issue that the right hon. Lady puts to me in relation to security guarantees, the American role and our dialogue with the Americans, I can assure the House that I spoke to President Trump twice over the Christmas period in relation to this specific issue, along with members of the E3 and European allies. That has been a constant in the course of our discussions. There is no question of acting on this without full discussion with the Americans. Their senior negotiators were there yesterday at President Trump’s request and on his instructions, and they were talking to him during the course of yesterday as we negotiated. To assure the House—because it is a serious position that she puts to me—on the question of security guarantees, there is nothing between the UK and the US, and we have been constantly discussing this over many, many weeks and months. We have made huge progress, and I have personally spoken to President Trump about this on two occasions since we were last in this House. I want to reassure her and the House in relation to that really important issue.
On defence spend, I am proud that we are investing to keep our country safe. We have increased the defence spend; that is provided for in the Budget. It is the biggest sustained increase in defence spending since the cold war, and that means better kit and better housing for our forces, and better defence as an engine for growth. Compare that with the Conservatives’ record. Ben Wallace, who was on the radio this morning—the longest-serving Conservative Defence Secretary—admitted that on their watch, the armed services had been, in his words, “hollowed out”. Our defence—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Mr Cartlidge, you expect a lot. I expect something back, and that is silence.
The Prime Minister
Hon. Members shout “shame!”; I will pass that on to Ben Wallace. The defence spending that we have put in place comes in three years earlier than the unfunded plan that the Conservatives left behind at the last election would have done.
Mrs Badenoch
I heard what—[Interruption.] Wait for it—wait for it! What Ben Wallace said was that spending had fallen under all Governments. The last time spending was at 3% was under a Conservative Government. Yes, while we welcome the increase—something that we supported—can I remind the House that the right hon. and learned Gentleman is a man who sat in the shadow Cabinet and tried to make Prime Minister a man who said we should not even be in NATO at all? I do not need to take any lectures from him. The world is changing. We need to spend more on defence. He did not answer the question about when we will get to 3%, yet he knows up until 2031 how much he is going to be spending on welfare. He does not know. That is in the Red Book; the Red Book has no money allocated for defence. We need to move from ambition to commitment.
This is important because it is not just about money. If the Prime Minister is deploying troops to Ukraine, those troops need to know that we have their backs. Last week, seven former SAS commanders warned that Labour’s Northern Ireland Troubles Bill will “wreck” our special forces. It was not me who said that; it was the SAS. In November, nine retired four-star generals warned that his Bill was
“a direct threat to national security”.
Even his own Northern Ireland Veterans Commissioner has said our veterans are being treated “worse than terrorists”. Is it not madness to be putting veterans in the dock for serving their country at the same time that he is deploying today’s soldiers into Ukraine?
The Prime Minister
That was embarrassing. The Leader of the Opposition said that Ben Wallace was talking about all Governments. The Conservatives were in power for 14 years, and they “hollowed out” our armed forces—copyright Ben Wallace.
The Leader of the Opposition talks about the shadow Cabinet. She has in her shadow Cabinet a shadow Attorney General who is advising Abramovich at the same time as we are imposing sanctions on Russia and trying to use that money to support Ukraine. How can someone sit in her shadow Cabinet advising someone trying to escape sanctions, and pretend that their policy is to support us on sanctions?
When it comes to Northern Ireland, the Conservatives are the party that gave immunity to IRA terrorists—terrorists who killed British soldiers. Their flawed Act was struck down by the courts, which left our veterans with no legal protection whatsoever. We are introducing a fair and transparent process, with a package of rights and protections for our veterans. There is no equivalence between our armed forces, who fought bravely in Northern Ireland, and terrorist groups. If the Leader of the Opposition wants—if her position is—to go back to their old, flawed legislation and give immunity to the IRA, she should stand up now and say so.
Mrs Badenoch
Let me start by talking about the shadow Attorney General. [Interruption.] Yes! Do Labour Members know what the shadow Attorney General is doing? He is defending veterans pro bono against the actions of this Government. We on this side of the House will defend those who defended us. But why do we not talk about the actual Attorney General, who is sitting in Cabinet: the man who defended Gerry Adams; the man who is trying to bring Shamima Begum back into the country; the man who is helping to surrender the Chagos islands? I will take our shadow Attorney General every day of the week against the Prime Minister’s Attorney General.
We protect our veterans. I want the Prime Minister to know that we protect our veterans. What he is doing to veterans is disgraceful. But this is serious, and I do not want the House to be under any illusions. The Prime Minister should know that we will absolutely support any efforts to help bring peace to Ukraine and we will work with him to ensure NATO remains the bedrock of our security, but we cannot write a blank cheque when he is also surrendering the Chagos islands, surrendering our veterans to lawfare and surrendering to his Back Benchers by prioritising welfare handouts over defence spending, as if the world has not become more dangerous. Is it not time that the Prime Minister changed course, and for once put the British national interest first?
The Prime Minister
The Leader of the Opposition talks about the shadow Attorney General. Of course, I accept that lawyers have to represent all sorts of crime. Of course, I accept that principle. The question is whether the shadow Attorney General can sit in the shadow Cabinet when the Conservative party says it supports us on sanctions. We want the money from Chelsea football club to go to Ukraine. I am not sure whether that is the Leader of the Opposition’s position. If it is her position, presumably it is something they discuss in the shadow Cabinet, advised by a shadow Attorney General who is representing the very man whose money we want to send to Ukraine. If she cannot see the conflict of interest in that, then she shows no judgment and no leadership at all—the same old. It is a new year, but the Leader of the Opposition has absolutely nothing to offer the country. She is totally irrelevant. Nobody is listening to her. This is the year when, on this side of the House, we turn a corner and people benefit from the decisions we made: £150 off energy bills, freezing rail fares and lifting half a million children out of poverty. We are turning the corner and there is much more to come.
Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)
The Prime Minister
I thank my hon. Friend for that question; I know that he is working on this scheme. As he knows, land investigation works are currently taking place to help establish the final costs. The Roads Minister is looking closely at the scheme, alongside about 40 others. We will prioritise schemes that deliver faster journeys, and allow new homes and jobs.
Ed Davey (Kingston and Surbiton) (LD)
Mr Speaker, may I wish you and everyone in this House a happy new year? I welcome the progress made on security guarantees for Ukraine yesterday. Geoffrey Robertson KC is a respected authority on international law. He is also the head of the Prime Minister’s barrister chambers and he could not be clearer: President Trump’s actions in Venezuela are illegal. He says the United States:
“is in breach of the United Nations charter”
and
“has committed the crime of aggression, which the court at Nuremberg described as the supreme crime”.
Does the Prime Minister agree with his old mentor, or has he got it wrong?
The Prime Minister
There are plenty of things that Geoffrey and I have agreed on and disagreed on over the years, but let me set out our position. It is our long-standing position that Maduro was not a legitimate president in Venezuela, so nobody, I think, sheds any tears at his removal. What we were saying before the weekend, and we say again, is that there needs to be a peaceful transition to democracy in Venezuela. The benchmark of all actions of all countries is, of course, international law, and it is for the US to justify its actions accordingly. My focus is on the defence and security of the United Kingdom. Yesterday we were working with NATO allies, including the US, on security guarantees for Ukraine. It is only with security guarantees that we will have a just and lasting peace in Ukraine, which is vitally important for Ukraine, for Europe and for the United Kingdom.
Ed Davey
The Prime Minister just looks ridiculous when he will not tell the truth: that Trump has broken international law. Turning to Donald Trump’s next target, the Prime Minister was right to give the Danish Prime Minister his backing over Trump’s threats to annex Greenland and I welcome his joint statement with other European leaders, but does he also agree that if Trump does attack Greenland, it will be the end of NATO? Given that frightening possibility, does he accept that the UK needs to increase defence spending more quickly than currently planned and build new alliances with reliable nations?
The Prime Minister
The Greenland issue is obviously very important and I thank the right hon. Gentleman for raising it. The future of Greenland is for Greenland and the Kingdom of Denmark, and for Greenland and the Kingdom of Denmark alone. Yesterday, he will have seen that I put out a statement to that effect, along with fellow allies in Europe. Of course, NATO is hugely important—the single-most effective and important military alliance the world has ever known. He keeps encouraging me to sort of tug away at parts of NATO, and to choose between Europe and the US. That would be a strategic mistake for our country.
Yesterday we were working with our NATO allies, including the US—our NATO ally—on a just and lasting peace in Ukraine, which will not happen without security guarantees from the coalition of the willing backed by the United States. That is a vitally important issue, and we made progress on it, but there will not be a just and lasting peace in Ukraine without those security guarantees, and not achieving a just and lasting peace in Ukraine is not in our national interest. That is why I am applying so much time and energy seeking to get that outcome.
Claire Hanna (Belfast South and Mid Down) (SDLP)
The Prime Minister
The Belfast/Good Friday agreement is one of the greatest achievements of the last Labour Government. As the hon. Lady well knows, it enshrined Northern Ireland’s place in the United Kingdom and set out clear principles and processes under that framework. I am aware of the Assembly and Executive Review Committee’s inquiry into institutional reform, and I can indicate that we are always happy to discuss any proposals for reform that would lead to a consensus.
Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)
The Prime Minister will be aware of the grave concerns that abound around the Northern Ireland Troubles Bill, particularly among veterans and those who stand up and speak out for the interests of those who defend our nation. They have read the six protections in the Bill and they do not see them as such: they offer no protection, they are procedural, and they apply to terrorists, too. Will the Prime Minister confirm that what we have heard is true—that the Ministry of Defence and the Northern Ireland Office intend to bring forward Government amendments that will specifically and particularly protect veterans, and that they will offer protection?
The Prime Minister
I know how deeply the right hon. Gentleman feels about these issues. As he knows, the Bill will put in place new measures designed specifically to protect veterans. Those safeguards have been developed with veterans in mind after carefully listening to their concerns. [Interruption.] The Conservatives have no respect at all for this issue, have they? We have been meeting veterans’ organisations and listening to their views, and, as the right hon. Gentleman will be pleased to hear, the House will see the result of those considerations when the Bill reaches Committee. We are determined to ensure that protections are as fair and effective as possible, recognising the role that service personnel played in keeping people across the UK safe during the troubles.
Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)
The Prime Minister
I thank my hon. Friend for raising that issue. As she knows, the rates went down during covid, and that is now coming to an end. We have therefore put in interim relief as we move to the new rates. We are continuing to work with and talk to the sector about that support and about what further support and action we can take.
Sarah Olney (Richmond Park) (LD)
The Prime Minister
I thank the hon. Lady for raising that issue. I can assure her that we want to work with all colleagues across the House on that crucial issue, and it is in our interest to do so. As she said, we have launched the first ever men’s health strategy, announcing over £3.5 million for suicide prevention and support programmes. We are recruiting more than 7,000 mental health workers, which includes access to talking therapies, and we are also rolling out mental health support teams in schools. It is vital that we raise awareness and increase the support available. I can assure the hon. Lady that Ministers will be happy to discuss her proposals with her, because I genuinely want to work across the House on this serious and tragic issue.
Bill Esterson (Sefton Central) (Lab)
The Prime Minister
I am very pleased about the measures we were able to announce this week. They come on top of the 5 million extra appointments we have delivered in the first year of this Labour Government and the 300,000 who have been taken off waiting lists, and more is to come as we turn into 2026. My hon. Friend is absolutely right. [Interruption.] Reform MPs laugh at the denial of the importance of vaccines. Imagine where this country would be if Reform ever saw power. If anyone wants an example of what it would be like, they should look at the local councils where Reform won power—they are absolutely chaotic, in a mess and putting taxes up.
Mr Peter Bedford (Mid Leicestershire) (Con)
The Prime Minister
I will reflect on the fact that inflation is falling and the Bank of England says that it is going to be down to its target. I will reflect on the fact that we have had six interest rate cuts in a row, and for those with mortgages that will be hugely effective. I will reflect on the fact that the International Monetary Fund says that we will have the second highest growth in 2025, defying the forecast. I remind the hon. Member that under the Conservatives we had inflation at 11% and the worst Parliament for living standards on record, and the Leader of the Opposition thinks that Liz Truss was 100% right to crash the economy. They are literally the only people who think that anybody should be listening to them. Nobody is!
Johanna Baxter (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (Lab)
The Prime Minister
I thank my hon. Friend for her question. I think I speak for the whole House in saying that I am deeply sorry to hear about that tragic case, and all our thoughts are with the family. There is a live legal case that I cannot comment on, but I can reassure my hon. Friend that we will look closely at its final outcome. There are strong rules in place, but we will look at the outcome to see whether there is more that can be done.
Alison Griffiths (Bognor Regis and Littlehampton) (Con)
The Prime Minister
Let me join the hon. Member in paying tribute to the agencies and local volunteers who supported the clean-up efforts; they are the very best. Liability sits with the polluter, and agencies and her local authority should work with the responsible party to recover the costs. I will ensure that she gets the meeting she asked for with the appropriate Minister.
Fabian Hamilton (Leeds North East) (Lab)
The Prime Minister
Every mother and baby deserve safe, high-quality, compassionate care. I want to see the inquiry at Leeds start as soon as possible. We are working with bereaved families to shape our approach and to appoint a chair whom they can trust, as my hon. Friend knows. I have a huge amount of respect for Donna Ockenden, who is an outstanding advocate for families. We will ensure that we select a chair of the highest standard who has the independence and expertise needed to deliver the real change that is needed.
Mr Angus MacDonald (Inverness, Skye and West Ross-shire) (LD)
The Prime Minister
I thank the hon. Member. Alongside the record settlement that we have put in place for the Scottish Government, we are delivering huge investment in apprenticeships and offering a paid placement for every young person, which is vital. The SNP, on the other hand, blocked a welding facility in the Clyde, because apparently it was related to defence. The SNP does not back Scottish industry, young people or national security—we do.
Pam Cox (Colchester) (Lab)
The Government are tackling patient waiting lists through NHS modernisation and reform. Does the Prime Minister agree that we need to tackle victim waiting lists by reforming our courts and criminal justice system?
The Prime Minister
Yes, I do. I have been working with victims of violence against women and girls for the best part of 20 years, and I have assured them time and again that if we got the opportunity, we would make the system work better for them. They have to wait far too long for justice, and in many cases they do not see justice at all. I am absolutely determined that we are going to turn that around.
Wendy Morton (Aldridge-Brownhills) (Con)
The Prime Minister
We will not plough through farmland; we will make sensible proposals to build houses. The Conservatives failed to do that in 14 long years, so now, because of the inheritance we got from them, young people do not have the dream of home ownership. We will turn that around.
BILL PRESENTED
Deprivation of Citizenship (Promotion of Terrorism or Violence) Bill
Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)
Sarah Pochin, supported by Nigel Farage, Richard Tice, Lee Anderson and Danny Kruger, presented a Bill to require the Secretary of State to deprive a person of citizenship if they have been convicted of an offence relating to national security in the United Kingdom or abroad and have subsequently promoted terrorism or violence in public; and for connected purposes.
Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 16 January, and to be printed (Bill 358).