(1 month ago)
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Dr Beccy Cooper (Worthing West) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
Over the last year, service morale fell to record lows, with over 300 more full-time personnel leaving the forces than joining each month. We cannot reverse these deep-set problems overnight, but this Government are putting people at the heart of our defence plans, and today will see the Second Reading of our legislation to establish an independent Armed Forces Commissioner to improve service life.
Dr Cooper
The package announced this weekend of 20 hours of funded wraparound childcare for families deployed overseas is very welcome. Can the Minister please assure us that this type of practical assistance will be a fundamental pillar of the Government’s support for forces families?
John Healey
I can indeed. Supporting our service families is really important, especially when they are far from home, and this scheme will reduce the burden of childcare costs for those eligible families overseas. This is a Government who are delivering for defence and putting our forces personnel at the heart of our defence plans.
Dame Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)
The Royal Fleet Auxiliary is often overlooked, yet it is vital to the sustainability and success of our Royal Navy. Often its pay and conditions do not keep track with either the armed forces or the civil service. What can the Secretary of State say to members of the RFA to reassure them that they are valued?
John Healey
Over the last decade or more, we have been expecting more of those members of the Royal Fleet Auxiliary. They play a critical role in our maritime operations and they are highly valued as part of our services community. We see an important future for that service as part of building Britain’s defences for the future, and we are putting forces personnel and RFA personnel at the heart of our plans to ensure that we are more secure at home and strong abroad.
James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)
On the subject of improving service life for service personnel and their families, thousands of families will be getting the unwelcome Christmas present this year of a 20% tax on the school fees that they pay to fund an independent boarding school or, otherwise, will have to allow their children’s education to be constantly destabilised. Given that this new tax is 100% the responsibility of the Government, will the Secretary of State confirm that the continuity of education allowance will be uplifted to fund 100% of the new tax on those fees?
John Healey
We will uprate the continuity of education allowance to reflect the increase in school fees from January. We will do that so that the allowance continues to maintain the schooling of the many children of personnel that are deployed. Our mission as a Government is to lift the morale of our services. That is why we are investing in our servicemen and women, supporting their families and starting to fix the problems of the last 14 years that we have inherited.
Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)
The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)
Following on from our recent discussion, I would like to reiterate that the service and sacrifice made by those on board Sir Galahad will never be forgotten. After any incident that results in loss of life, people will always ask themselves, “What if something different had happened?” However, the losses on Sir Galahad were the result of enemy action, and enemy action alone. Under the Public Records Act 1958 we protect personal data and information, but we have recently reviewed further files and I look forward to meeting my hon. Friend this month to discuss the issue further.
Jessica Morden
Falklands veterans from the Welsh Guards, including my constituent Mike Hermanis, continue to campaign to uncover the truth behind the attack on the Sir Galahad in June 1982. I know that the Minister is already working on this, but with time marching on, will he agree to meet not only me, but colleagues and, crucially, veterans from the campaign to discuss releasing the remaining documents from the board of inquiry so that those veterans and the families of those who died can finally get to the truth?
Al Carns
I would welcome a discussion with my hon. Friend about engaging with the veterans community from Sir Galahad, and I look forward to our meeting later this month.
Sir Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con)
I have many friends who served out there, and the after-effects of that disaster—death, burnt human beings—still bang on and resonate with them today. All they want is to know why they were there at the wrong time. Who gave the orders? The report is critical. It is not just a case of them being damaged or killed by enemy action; it is about the incompetence of those who put them in the wrong place at the wrong time, leaving them open to that simple, terrible attack.
Al Carns
There is much chaos in conflict, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, and the Ministry of Defence in no way blames the Welsh Guards for the events of that tragic day. My officials have been reviewing further files, and two extracts from the board of inquiry have been reviewed and are now within the open records at the National Archives.
Mike Tapp (Dover and Deal) (Lab)
I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) for her sustained campaign for transparency. My constituent Oliver Richardson, the mayor of Deal, was just 21 when he survived the sinking. I welcome the Minister’s offer of a meeting, and I ask to be included, please.
Sir Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)
I emphasise how mystifying it is that these documents have not already been released, 40 years after the conflict. It is not about identifying blame or who was responsible. In my view, it is about making sure that lessons are transparently learned for future operations about command chains and accountability during conflict. What is the reason for withholding these documents? Will the Minister show compassion for those who still live with this, whether as bereaved relatives or as people bearing the scars and injuries of this dreadful event?
Al Carns
First of all, I have compassion for those injured or wounded in combat, after seeing many throughout my career. I assure the House that the individual lessons learned from this conflict have been spread throughout the Department and into the single services. Five files, comprising 308 witness statements, are closed and, under the terms of the Public Records Act 1958, these witness statements will remain closed until 2065. However, we will look at reviewing some of these statements, and we will provide a view in due course.
Gregory Stafford (Farnham and Bordon) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
The strategic defence review is the first of its kind in the UK. It is externally led and draws widely on experts within Government and the military, as well as those from industry, academia and our allies. The reviewers will report in the spring.
Gregory Stafford
With the increasing threats we see around the world, the Government are entitled to conduct a strategic defence review, but that should not be an excuse not to commit to increasing defence spending. Given that the Secretary of State refused to provide a timetable at last week’s urgent question, will he now say yes or no to whether the Government will get to 2.5% of GDP on defence spending by the end of this Parliament?
John Healey
Everyone agrees that defence spending must rise. Under this Government, it is increasing by nearly £3 billion next year, and there is a cast-iron commitment that we will set a clear path to spending 2.5% of GDP on defence. Of course, the last time this country spent 2.5% of GDP on defence was in 2010 with a Labour Government.
Graham Stringer (Blackley and Middleton South) (Lab)
Deciding to defer or to review is just as much of a decision as one to go ahead or not to go ahead, because it means that nothing is happening. The Typhoon factory at Warton is currently idle—no Typhoons are being produced—which is bad for exports and bad for our defence. Can the Secretary of State tell the House when we will take a decision to procure more Typhoons? There are 25,000 jobs at risk, as well as the country’s defence.
John Healey
I have had the privilege of visiting Warton, and I have seen the skills, the technology and the workforce’s commitment and dedication to that job. The reviewers of the strategic defence review will produce their final report and make recommendations in the spring. In the meantime, my hon. Friend rightly points to exports. It may interest him to know that, last week, I was in Turkey and Saudi Arabia to discuss with Defence Ministers the future role that UK-made Typhoons could play in the defence of both countries.
Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con)
Further to the question raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Farnham and Bordon (Gregory Stafford), I welcome the £2.9 billion of extra defence expenditure from next year. However, not only do we not have a timetable for meeting 2.5% of GDP, which the whole House would like to hear about; will the Secretary of State confirm that there will be no additional funding for the in-year pressures that this Department, alongside so many others, is suffering from?
John Healey
The Chancellor set out in her Budget on 30 October the steps we are taking, across Government, to deal with the £22 billion in-year deficit that this Government inherited. On the commitment to 2.5% of GDP, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury has made it clear that we will set that path in the spring. I remind the House that the Prime Minister said at the NATO summit in Washington, back in July, that it was a question of the strategic defence review first, then the commitment and the path to 2.5%.
Alex Baker (Aldershot) (Lab)
My constituency is home to many small and medium-sized enterprises that contribute to our UK defence sector. What steps are the Government taking to ensure that submissions from SMEs to the strategic defence review are given equal weighting and consideration compared with submissions from prime contractors, in order to support innovation, job creation and competition within the UK defence sector?
John Healey
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. The shadow Defence Secretary will recognise the role that small, medium and growing companies can play in our defence and security sector better than anyone else in the House. That is one reason why, within days of getting this job, I did not just meet the big, leading defence companies; I had a similar meeting and briefing on the approach this Government will take with small and medium-sized companies, including growing companies, in the defence sector. Such companies will be an important focus for the strategic defence review, as the reforms and the long-term industrial strategy required to deliver stronger defences for this country are considered.
Josh Newbury (Cannock Chase) (Lab)
Mr Richard Holden (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)
The Minister for the Armed Forces (Luke Pollard)
This Government have already begun to modernise and refine our policies and processes to attract and retain the best possible talent in our armed forces. We are delivering for defence, with a 35% pay increase for new recruits and one of the largest pay increases in the last 20 years for existing personnel. We are scrapping over 100 outdated medical policies and setting an ambition to make a conditional offer of employment to candidates within 10 days and a provisional training start date within 30 days.
Josh Newbury
From cadets to regulars and reservists, it is clear that we must urgently tackle the recruitment and retention crisis presided over by the last Government. Will the Minister join me in welcoming the fact that over 700 applications are now being reconsidered after the removal of unnecessary red tape blocking some sufferers of hay fever and acne from joining?
Luke Pollard
I am delighted to join my hon. Friend in welcoming the announcement by the Ministry of Defence that more than 700 applications have been reconsidered following the removal of 100 outdated medical policies, such as those blocking some sufferers of hay fever, eczema and acne. That is a perfect example of how we are fixing the foundations and delivering for defence.
Mr Holden
I welcome the Government’s commitment in this area. Since 1999, there have been only six years when the regular forces have grown in size, and all three armed forces are currently below target. Does the Minister believe there will be any year between now and 2030 when there will be a net increase in numbers? Does he have a target for the overall increase in those years? Or is it a bit like 2.5% of GDP, and we will just have to wait and see—“Make me good, but not yet”?
Luke Pollard
I welcome the right hon. Gentleman’s passion for recruitment. The recruitment target was missed in every single year of the last Conservative Government. It will take us time to fix the process, but we have already made announcements about improving retention and recruitment. We will make further such announcements in the months ahead to ensure that we are dealing with the gaps in our capabilities and improving morale, and that we have forces that are able to deter and defeat aggressors, if necessary.
Mr Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Wickford) (Con)
Thank you, Mr Speaker—it is nice to be back. On recruitment, many who join the armed forces began their military journey as cadets. The previous Conservative Government’s cadet expansion programme successfully established hundreds of new cadet units in state schools. However, this Labour Government have recently withdrawn a critical £1 million-plus grant that supports cadet instructors in many of the very same state schools. Will the Government as a whole urgently review that very unwelcome decision?
Luke Pollard
I welcome my shadow to his place. The Government are committed to cadets. It is a really valuable pastime for young people, which provides skills and opportunities that will last them a lifetime. The Minister for Veterans and People is reviewing the cadet force to ensure that it can continue to play a really important role for young people and support the overall mission of defence.
Mr Francois
I welcome the Minister’s kind welcome. On retention, how can we persuade people to remain in our armed forces if they sense that the new Government do not really have their back? In that context, will the Ministry of Defence start to defend its own veterans within Whitehall, and argue that the perverse plan to repeal the Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023 should be abandoned as soon as possible?
Luke Pollard
I had such high hopes for the right hon. Gentleman as my shadow. Let me be very clear: the Government are renewing the contract between the nation and those who serve—a contract that had been eroded over 14 years, with black mould in military accommodation, falling morale and gaps in our capabilities. We will not only support retention and recruitment, but through the work that the Defence Secretary does in Cabinet and the work of the Minister for Veterans and People, we will support our veterans as well.
Helen Maguire (Epsom and Ewell) (LD)
I have heard from a number of young people who have tried to join the military, only to be met with long waits for their medical assessment. I understand the need for applicants to be thoroughly assessed, but we are losing valuable recruits due to the processing time. Many cannot afford to wait around and ultimately choose a different path. How is the Minister ensuring that the medical assessment process runs efficiently?
Luke Pollard
It is a really important part of the application process that we ensure that the people we accept into our armed forces are medically fit. We have already made progress in this area by removing outdated medical processes, and we are working with colleagues across health to ensure that access to applicants’ medical records is smooth and efficient, reducing the delay between someone saying that they want to serve in our armed forces and that person getting through the door of a training base. There is lots of work to be done, and we hope to make further announcements in due course.
Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
NATO is the cornerstone of UK and Euro-Atlantic security. Our commitment to the alliance is unshakable. The strategic defence review will ensure that we have a NATO-first policy at the heart of Britain’s defence plans for the future.
Bob Blackman
Following the election of President Trump in the United States, there will clearly be much more pressure from the new US Administration on other countries in NATO to step up to the mark and put in the resources that they should be putting in to safeguard the defence of Europe. What action will the Secretary of State take to show leadership and ensure that other European countries step up and keep Europe safe from external threats such as Russia, China and beyond?
John Healey
Our cast-iron commitment to increase defence spending to 2.5% of GDP will help to set the pace in NATO. I am pleased that, while in 2001 only six NATO nations were meeting the pledge level of 2%, this year 23 nations are doing so. The UK commits almost all our armed forces and our nuclear deterrent to NATO, so we play a leading role. We will have a NATO-first policy at the heart of our defence plans, and will always look to be first in NATO as part of our leadership role.
Chris McDonald (Stockton North) (Lab)
Mindful that tomorrow marks the 1,000-day anniversary of the invasion of Ukraine, and of the increase in Russian hostility over the weekend, will my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State take this opportunity to assure the House of this Government’s continued steadfast support for both Ukraine and NATO?
John Healey
I will indeed. In the four months that this Government have been in office we have stepped up support for Ukraine and speeded up delivery of the military aid promised. This is a Government now spending more on military aid than ever before on behalf of the UK. I pay tribute to the Conservative party for the fact that the UK is and remains united for Ukraine.
Mrs Emma Lewell-Buck (South Shields) (Lab)
Mrs Sarah Russell (Congleton) (Lab)
Sally Jameson (Doncaster Central) (Lab/Co-op)
Liz Twist (Blaydon and Consett) (Lab)
The Minister for the Armed Forces (Luke Pollard)
The Armed Forces Commissioner Bill is a landmark piece of legislation and a major step taken by this Government to renew the contract between the nation and those who serve. Second Reading of the Bill will be later today and the commissioner will be a strong independent champion for our armed forces and their families, improving parliamentary oversight and getting to grips with the welfare issues faced by our armed forces.
Mrs Lewell-Buck
I thank the Minister for all he is doing to improve the lives of our armed forces communities. He will be aware of the deeply distressing accounts of rape and sexual assault from the Defence Committee’s report on women in the armed forces. Will he please revisit our recommendations and those of the Lyons review, so that those serious cases can be heard in civilian, not service courts?
Luke Pollard
My hon. Friend is exactly right to raise this very serious issue. In opposition we made a commitment that murder, manslaughter and rape cases would be tried in civilian, rather than military courts. I encourage her to keep asking questions as we get closer to the armed forces Bill, which will be an opportunity to put that right.
Mrs Russell
The Listening Out Loud Foundation in my constituency is run by Jill and Andy Dolman and works with those who have recently left the forces, often with complex problems such as post-traumatic stress disorder. They can provide an excellent insight into how we can better support current and future armed forces personnel. How does the Minister foresee the Armed Forces Commissioner working with small charities such as the Listening Out Loud Foundation, and will he join me in visiting the organisation in the near future?
Luke Pollard
I thank my hon. Friend for her interest in this area and for championing the work of that organisation in her constituency. As we get to the point of implementing the Armed Forces Commissioner, I expect that they will have new relationships with service charities and organisations for serving members of our forces and the wider armed forces family. I would be very happy to meet my hon. Friend to discuss that, and I look forward to visiting her constituency to meet that organisation in person if I can.
Sally Jameson
Will the Minister consider that it is right that the Armed Forces Commissioner be able to challenge Ministers, and increase parliamentary oversight of the issues that face our forces and their families?
Luke Pollard
That was a commitment we made in opposition, but it is also a commitment to increased scrutiny that we are proud to make from the Government Dispatch Box. We want to make the case that, to improve morale and to improve the relationship and the contract between the nation and those who serve, having an independent and impartial figure to champion our armed forces and their families will improve not only the lived experience of those people, but the operational capability of our forces, encouraging more people to recognise that someone is genuinely listening to their concerns and that Ministers are prepared to act on them as well. There is a lot of work to be done to renew the contract, but the Armed Forces Commissioner is a key first step.
Liz Twist
Last month I visited the Northern Hub for Veterans and Military Families Research at Northumbria University to hear about its suicide prevention work. Its research found that many military families bereaved by suicide felt helpless and unsupported as the wellbeing of their loved ones declined. Does the Minister agree that the Armed Forces Commissioner Bill is a vital opportunity to deliver better support for families going through difficult times?
Luke Pollard
Any death by suicide is a tragedy, though it remains fortunately a rare event in the armed forces community. It is positive to hear of the work by Northumbria University in this area. This month we published a refreshed edition of the armed forces suicide prevention strategy and action plan to enhance the MOD’s commitment to reducing suicide and better supporting those affected by it. A future independent commissioner will have the discretion to investigate welfare matters affecting our forces and will be a direct point of contact for bereaved families of our serving personnel, and that would naturally be a matter worthy of their attention.
Lincoln Jopp (Spelthorne) (Con)
Will the Armed Forces Commissioner’s powers of investigation extend to being allowed to visit troops deployed on operations, to question them, and to seize documents?
Luke Pollard
The Armed Forces Commissioner Bill includes powers for the Armed Forces Commissioner to visit serving personnel, and for UK visits to be unannounced. Due to the logistics of visiting troops abroad, we would expect that such visits would be co-ordinated with the Department. I expect the commissioner to visit our troops serving abroad, and families deployed abroad, and to hear about the particular challenges that being deployed abroad presents for those in uniform and those who love them. We have lots of work to do, and I would be grateful if the hon. Gentleman would raise that issue at the Bill’s Second Reading later today, when I can respond in more detail.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
I thank the Minister for his response to the questions. In Northern Ireland recruitment is at record levels—there has never needed to be conscription because there were always volunteers. Ever mindful of that, and of the need to ensure that the independent Armed Forces Commissioner has the same responsibility and power in every place in Northern Ireland, will the Minister please indicate strongly, if he can, that every council will be involved, and every person who needs help in Northern Ireland will get it?
Luke Pollard
The Armed Forces Commissioner will extend to all parts of the United Kingdom and cover the service welfare matters of UK armed forces personnel and their families, including when deployed abroad. We would expect recommendations to be published directly to Parliament, not through the Ministry of Defence, to ensure the impartiality and independence of the role, and to allow Members of Parliament from all parts of the House to scrutinise recommendations and issues raised by the commissioner. That will include every nation within the United Kingdom.
Lucy Rigby (Northampton North) (Lab)
The Minister for Defence Procurement and Industry (Maria Eagle)
This Government are getting on with delivering for defence to make Britain secure at home and strong abroad. The UK remains a leading voice in NATO on missile defence, which we see as a cross-Government and international effort. We are working to enhance our missile defence capabilities, and modernising our approach to air and missile defence, both for our own forces and with our NATO allies.
Lucy Rigby
At last month’s NATO Ministers of Defence meeting the Secretary of State agreed to step up co-operation with our NATO allies on missile defence and cutting-edge long-range missiles. Does the Minister agree that a focus on integrating NATO’s missile defence is key to strengthening European security?
Maria Eagle
Yes, I do. Defence against air and missile threats has played a key role in our recent thinking, and with our NATO-first approach to policy, putting integration with our allies at the heart of our defence plans makes sense and is a vital part of ensuring our security going forward.
Sir Roger Gale (Herne Bay and Sandwich) (Con)
Will the United Kingdom, preferably in tandem with our European colleagues but if necessary bilaterally with the United States, align with the United States in permitting Ukraine to use the missile defence systems that we have supplied as it sees fit in its own defence?
Maria Eagle
Absolutely. We intend to align with our allies in making sure that Ukraine can make use of the capability that has been offered by those who have committed support to that country in its fight.
Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab)
The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)
This is a Government of service who will always stand up for those who serve our country, and I am steadfast in my commitment to deliver improved services for veterans nationwide, including in Newcastle-under-Lyme. I am working to ensure a dedicated structure and support mechanism for veterans that is more institutionally resilient, through working across Government and with devolved Administrations.
Adam Jogee
Our veterans are on the frontline as they defend our country, and when seeking meaningful support to get on with their lives when they get home. Will the Minister join me in paying tribute to the Tri Services and Veterans Support Centre in Newcastle-under-Lyme, led by chairman Geoff Harriman, for all the work it does? Will he come to visit the centre, meet our veterans, and show them the support that they deserve?
Al Carns
I would be delighted to accept my hon. Friend’s offer to visit Newcastle-under-Lyme and reopen the tri-service centre. I look forward to meeting veterans in the constituency and learning more about the fantastic work they are doing.
Sarah Dyke (Glastonbury and Somerton) (LD)
I recently met Got Your Six in Wincanton, which provides crucial therapeutic support for veterans and serving personnel. One veteran told me that its support had been invaluable at a point in his life when he could not see a future. Will the Minister join me in congratulating Got Your Six, and will the Government support such groups to expand their crucial work?
Al Carns
I congratulate Got Your Six and all the charitable sector on the amazing voluntary work that goes on across the country. I, too, have seen the amazing work that Got Your Six does and would like to meet its representatives in due course if they come down to Westminster.
Lillian Jones (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (Lab)
Matt Turmaine (Watford) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
With tomorrow marking 1,000 days since the start of President Putin’s brutal, illegal invasion of Ukraine, our commitment to stand with the Ukrainian people is absolute. We have stepped up with more military support, we have sped up deliveries, and we are now spending more on military aid as a country than ever before.
Lillian Jones
Tomorrow will be 1,000 days since Putin invaded Ukraine. My constituents in Kilmarnock and Loudoun have concerns about the ongoing welfare of Ukrainian civilians, so can the Secretary of State please assure my constituents that the Government will continue to offer support and aid to those in need? Will he underline our absolute support for Ukraine forces to end Putin’s aggression?
John Healey
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. What she really says is that the Ukrainians have been fighting with huge courage—military and civilians alike—and the best way we can help the Ukrainians to defend their own civilians is to step up our support for Ukraine. That is why we have increased military support and aid to its highest level ever. We have signed a new industrial treaty with Ukraine worth £3.5 billion to increase military hardware. We have hit the £1 billion milestone for the UK-led international fund for Ukraine. We will stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes. This is a Government delivering for defence and for Ukraine.
Matt Turmaine
I thank the Secretary of State for his previous answers. Will he outline some of the detail of the support that has been offered to Ukraine and how that support is evolving as the conflict continues?
John Healey
At each stage, we have tried to respond to the requirements that the Ukrainians say that they have to match the state of their battle to defend their country. We have announced packages of artillery, of ammunition and of air defence, which is one of their most critical needs at present, including recently a new contract to supply short-range air defence missiles—the lightweight multi-role missiles. Those will be in Ukrainian hands at the turn of the year. We expect to step up that production and delivery during the course of next year.
Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
Does the Secretary of State share my concern at the recent media interview given by a leading candidate to be Labour’s next ambassador to Washington DC? This supposedly clever negotiator declared that Ukraine should not expect to get its territory back, and should not expect to be put on the path to join NATO, but could perhaps secure some security guarantees from western countries. Does the Secretary of State agree that whoever is sent to Washington should be somebody who supports Ukraine in defending itself and does not reward Russian aggression with pre-emptive capitulation?
John Healey
One of the first privileges I had in this new role was to represent the country at the NATO Washington summit. That was the point at which the NATO nations collectively agreed to step up support for Ukraine and to develop the security guarantees that Ukraine will need in the longer term. The task for us and allies that support Ukraine is to help Ukrainians and support them in their fight now. At the point at which they judge the talking should start, our role then is to give them equally steadfast support, and we will.
Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)
I am sure the whole House stands solidly with Ukraine on its one thousandth day countering Russian aggression and doing so for us all, but its ability to do so is weakened by North Korea sending armaments and manpower, the Iranians sending drones, and oil contracts still being signed. Will the Minister assure us that, in the light of the American decision to allow strikes inside Russia, we will also give permission for our missiles to be used to break up concentrations of arms and material inside Russia?
John Healey
I will not be drawn on details about long-range missiles today—it risks operational security, and the only person who benefits from public debate is President Putin. As the right hon. Member rightly says, 10,000 North Korean troops are on the frontline in Russia. At the weekend, Russia launched its biggest aerial attack into Ukraine since August against infrastructure. I spoke yesterday to the US Defence Secretary about this escalation. I will speak to the Ukrainian Defence Minister about it later today. I want the House to be in no doubt: the Prime Minister has been clear that we must double down and give Ukraine the support it needs for as long as it needs. We will continue to work in close co-ordination with the US in our support for Ukraine.
Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab)
I asked the Secretary of State last month whether there was an update on the usage of Storm Shadow missiles by Ukraine. As has been widely reported, yesterday President Biden lifted restrictions on the use of long-range US missiles. Given the continuous bombing of Ukrainian communities by Russia, and given that thousands of North Korean troops are fighting against our ally in our continent, will Ukraine now be allowed to use those Storm Shadow missiles—obviously, within the confines of international law—or do we expect Ukraine to continue fighting and defending itself with one hand tied behind its back while keeping those Storm Shadows in safe storage?
John Healey
I say again that I will not compromise operational security and comment on the details of long-range systems today. The Prime Minister has been clear—as I am being to the House—that we must double down on the support to Ukraine, give it the support it needs and do so for as long as it takes. In doing so, we will continue our close co-operation with the US and allies in providing that support to Ukraine.
James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)
I join the Chair of the Defence Committee, the hon. Member for Slough (Mr Dhesi), in strongly welcoming the decision by the United States to permit Ukraine to use long-range missiles in Kursk. I know the Secretary of State does not want to go into operational detail—I understand that—but I assure him of our support if he follows through in relation to Storm Shadow, as we believe he should. There will be those who talk about escalation, but does he agree that the only escalation that matters here is 10,000 North Korean troops on the ground supporting Russia in its illegal war?
John Healey
The shadow Secretary of State is right that the one person responsible for escalation in this conflict is President Putin, and the one side that has been escalating in recent months is Russia. In recognising that he has escalated his illegal war against Ukraine by intensifying the use of glide bombs, destroying Ukraine’s energy infrastructure and deploying thousands of North Korean troops into combat positions in Kursk, I am discussing this very serious development with the US Defence Secretary and will be discussing it with the Ukrainian Defence Secretary this evening.
David Mundell (Dumfriesshire, Clydesdale and Tweeddale) (Con)
Did the Prime Minister raise Ukraine during his meeting with President Xi given China’s undoubted influence over Russia and North Korea?
John Healey
I regard the Prime Minister’s meeting with President Xi as an important step forward. He is the first Prime Minister of the UK to meet the leader of China in nearly six years. After 14 years of damaging Conservative inconsistency on China, this Government will bring a long-term approach to managing our relations with China. We will co-operate where we can, compete where we should, and challenge where we must.
Damian Hinds (East Hampshire) (Con)
The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)
I have visited various cadet units, and I am constantly in awe of their work not only to increase social mobility, but to improve the health and wellbeing of various young people across the country. They produce an annual return on investment in the region of £95 million. We are committed to sustaining cadet forces across the UK, and we continue to invest in cadet expansion in schools so that even more young people, particularly in the state sector, can benefit from being in the cadets.
Damian Hinds
I agree wholeheartedly with the Minister about the benefits of the cadets, so why have the Government cut support to cadets, even as they were launching a national youth strategy? His colleague said earlier that the Government would have a review. The question is: can that gap in support be plugged and the school staff instructor grant be restored so that more children—hopefully, many more children—in state schools can benefit from joining the cadets?
Al Carns
I am conducting a review into cadets and reserves. The cadet expansion programme will still receive £3.6 million in Government funding through the Ministry of Defence, and I can reassure the right hon. Member that we are fully committed to supporting the cadet expansion programme. I will speak to him about our review in due course, once it is complete.
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Ind)
The Minister for Defence Procurement and Industry (Maria Eagle)
We recognise the serious risks posed by the use of nuclear weapons. It was a Labour Prime Minister who signed the non-proliferation treaty in 1968. The UK remains fully committed to the multilateral non-proliferation aim of a world without nuclear weapons. We also have a triple lock commitment on our nuclear deterrent, which is a vital part of UK defence and deterrence.
Jeremy Corbyn
According to the Nuclear Information Service, there have been 110 historical incidents involving UK nuclear weapons. There have been 25 well-recorded near misses between the United States and Russia—and, formerly, the Soviet Union. In that context, will the Minister explain why, on 1 November, when the United National General Assembly was invited to vote on establishing a panel for a scientific study on the effects of nuclear weapons, Britain, Russia and France were the only three countries to vote against its establishment? Fortunately, the committee was established. Will the Minister assure the House that Britain will fully co-operate in examining the devastating effect of nuclear weapons were they ever to be used?
Maria Eagle
The UK has always recognised the possible humanitarian consequences of the use of nuclear weapons. The proposed panel does not establish a clear mandate to address maintaining long-held knowledge of the devastating consequences of nuclear war using scientific research, and the resolution will not advance progress towards nuclear disarmament. That is why we voted against it.
Rebecca Long Bailey (Salford) (Ind)
The Secretary of State’s commitment to nuclear testing veterans is well known, but he may be concerned by a report in the Daily Mirror today claiming that incorrect testimony and incomplete documentation were provided by civil servants and given to judges in the court cases brought by the nuclear veterans over decades. Will the Secretary of State investigate those claims urgently and report to the House?
Maria Eagle
I can assure the hon. Lady that my hon. Friend the Minister for Veterans and People has met nuclear test veterans to establish a new relationship to ensure that we have consistent and productive dialogue. I know that he is committed to exploring the concerns raised about access to medical records, and I am sure that progress will be made in that context.
Luke Myer (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
This Government are delivering for defence. Last month, the UK and Germany signed the landmark Trinity House agreement, marking a new era of co-operation between our armed forces and our defence industries. With threats increasing, we must strengthen European security. Tomorrow marks the bloody milestone of 1,000 days since Putin’s illegal invasion of Ukraine began. The UK continues to be united for Ukraine, and the Government continue to step up support for Ukraine. As part of that, I can confirm today that 50,000 Ukrainian troops have now been trained through Operation Interflex —the UK-led multinational training programme—which I have now extended to run throughout 2025.
Luke Myer
I welcome that announcement by the Secretary of State. It should shame every politician in this House that today veterans who have served our country are still sleeping rough on our streets. Can the Secretary of State set out the steps he will take to ensure that homes will be there for heroes?
John Healey
Our first step was to ensure that veterans who face homelessness have a more advantaged place in social housing provision—that was announced by the Prime Minister in his Labour party conference speech and will be followed up by the Deputy Prime Minister in changes to the arrangements for local authority guidance. On the eve of Remembrance weekend, we also made a pledge of £3.5 million to help homeless veterans.
James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)
In relation to the cost of renting back our own military base on the Chagos islands, last week the Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty), said that the reason the Government refused to tell us what the cost will be is that
“it is not normal practice for the UK to reveal the value of payments for military bases anywhere across the globe”.—[Official Report, 13 November 2024; Vol. 756, c. 793.]
Is that correct?
John Healey
That is correct, but it is also true to say that the treaty is in the legal and national security interests of the UK and US. That is why the US Defence Secretary welcomed the agreement, which he said would
“safeguard the strategic security interests of the United Kingdom…and the United States…into the next century”.
James Cartlidge
The Secretary of State says it is true that it is not normal practice for the UK to reveal the value of payments for military bases, but there have actually been several written answers, under this Government and previous ones, giving the costs of overseas bases. For example, in November 2015 the then Minister for the Armed Forces—Penny Mordaunt, no less—revealed in a written answer the cost of 10 overseas bases, including Diego Garcia and the cost of leases. The reason for withholding the cost does not stack up. What does the Secretary of State have to hide from Parliament?
John Healey
Absolutely nothing, nor will we. It is a matter of course to confirm running costs for bases. What we are talking about here is an agreement leading to a treaty that will be put before this House. I have said to the House and to the shadow Secretary of State that we will set out the costs and the details of that treaty in due course when the House comes to consider it.
Sally Jameson (Doncaster Central) (Lab/Co-op)
The Minister for Veterans and People (Al Carns)
I would love to come and visit my hon. Friend’s constituency to talk through that and reaffirm that the covenant will go into law in the next two to three years. That work is progressing as I speak.
Helen Maguire (Epsom and Ewell) (LD)
Tomorrow marks 1,000 days since the illegal invasion of Ukraine. With the incoming White House Administration casting doubts on continued US support for Ukraine, I echo the calls heard across the House today urging the Minister to confirm that the Government plan to authorise the use of Storm Shadow missiles in Russia.
John Healey
I urge the hon. Lady to look back in the record at the answer that I have given two or three times already to this House.
Alan Strickland (Newton Aycliffe and Spennymoor) (Lab)
The Minister for Defence Procurement and Industry (Maria Eagle)
The MOD will continue to invest in the company’s people to ensure that the facility has a sustainable future. Octric’s leadership team is currently finalising its future resource plan, which will cover the need for new high-tech roles such as engineers and scientists to ensure that the facility is best placed to develop new technology and meet defence needs. I am more than happy to meet my hon. Friend about that.
Katie Lam (Weald of Kent) (Con)
Al Carns
I will not comment on other parts of the Government’s funding priorities; what I would suggest is that the MOD absolutely supports the cadet forces. We have over 140,000 cadets and 26,000 adult volunteers, and we will review the cadets process and make sure it is fit for purpose as we move forward.
Danny Beales (Uxbridge and South Ruislip) (Lab)
Al Carns
I thank my hon. Friend for his really important question. For the past 14 years, we have kicked the can down the road on housing, and I will take it upon myself to put in place a medium and long-term plan that will solve those housing problems as we move forward. There are over 47,000 MOD properties, and we will make sure people get the deal they deserve.
David Reed (Exmouth and Exeter East) (Con)
John Healey
I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his position as parliamentary private secretary to the shadow Defence team—it is good to see him asking questions. The short answer is yes.
Blair McDougall (East Renfrewshire) (Lab)
John Healey
It is certainly true that we need to rebuild relations with important European allies, and that we need to do more collaboratively on big programmes. That is at the heart of the UK-German defence agreement that we have already signed as a new Government. We have also said that we will set out to strike a UK-EU security agreement, and aspects of that may be relevant.
Robbie Moore (Keighley and Ilkley) (Con)
Many veterans who I have spoken to recently are deeply concerned about the Government’s decision to remove the role of Veterans Minister from Cabinet. Will the Secretary of State explain how he will ensure veterans get the attention from Government that they rightly deserve?
John Healey
Veterans have a fully fledged Cabinet Minister speaking up for them. I am proud to do so as the Secretary of State for Defence.
Andrew Pakes (Peterborough) (Lab)
Al Carns
Absolutely, and I congratulate Light Project on its work. Op Fortitude has also referred over 2,000 veterans, and has already put 800 into housing.
Richard Foord (Honiton and Sidmouth) (LD)
The Secretary of State said a moment ago that the UK is working on a potential UK-EU security agreement. Might that include involvement in the European Peace Facility, which procures ammunition jointly?
John Healey
Discussions are at an early stage. At present, I am more concerned about the action we can take immediately, which is why I have given my first priority to building relations with key European allies. When I can, I will consolidate those relations in formal agreements, which we already have with Germany.
Peter Swallow (Bracknell) (Lab)
The Minister for the Armed Forces (Luke Pollard)
I congratulate all those starting their military careers at Sandhurst and across our defence training estate. A career in the armed forces is a good career that supports our national defence, and I encourage more people to look at a good career in the armed forces—whether joining for the first time or rejoining.
Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)
As the Government have announced this month that they are putting RAF Scampton back on the market and the luckless Home Office is now—thank God—out of the picture, the excellent MOD and this brilliant cast of Ministers are now very much in the picture. May I have an assurance today that they will work closely with West Lindsey to further our exciting plans to promote defence industries on this historic site and keep the runway open?
Maria Eagle
I will be pleased to meet the Father of the House and look at those plans. I think it was my sister who made that decision in the Home Office—[Laughter.]
Louise Jones (North East Derbyshire) (Lab)
I served in Germany for two years as part of NATO’s very high readiness joint task force, and I welcome the improved co-operation with that nation. I also saw at first hand the importance of our relationship with Poland. Can the Secretary of State tell me what we are doing to improve co-operation with that nation?
John Healey
I can indeed. Poland was one of the first countries that I visited as the new Defence Secretary. I was keen to establish a good relationship with my Polish counterpart and have done so. There is a good deal that we will do in future and are already doing, both military to military and with our defence industries.
Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)
On Friday, the UK Defence Journal reported on the activities of the Russian research and intelligence vessel Yantar in the Irish sea, in the vicinity of various cables. This is not new; we had the same thing last year in the North sea and off Shetland. Given the sheer quantity of cables and pipelines now in the seabed, what are the Government doing to ensure that that critical national infrastructure is properly protected?
Luke Pollard
Let the House be in no doubt that the United Kingdom and our armed forces will defend our critical national infrastructure undersea cables. We have a strategy and armed forces protecting our cables, and we are working with our allies to do so. I suspect that that will also feature as a recommendation in the strategic defence review when it is published next year.
Damien Egan (Bristol North East) (Lab)
With our domestic air defences under increased scrutiny, will the Secretary of State update us on the work being done to strengthen them and give assurances that our Government understand that our forces will need the resources available to secure our skies?
John Healey
This is one of the areas that the strategic defence review is looking at closely: it has set up 26 review and challenge panels and is drawing in almost 150 external experts from the whole range of defence. With rising threats at this point, this is part of the long, hard look we have to take at the capabilities we need in order to keep Britain safe in future and to be strong abroad.
Dave Doogan (Angus and Perthshire Glens) (SNP)
The Secretary of State speaks to a UK commitment to “NATO first”, and that is great, but we have just seen the election of a US President who is putting America first and the defence of Europe in the hands of European states, which makes the prevarication over 2.5% all the more difficult. Will he accept that a commitment without a date is watery and that only a date will provide a commitment? Will it be in this Parliament—yes or no?
John Healey
I do not accept that for a moment. It is a commitment and a level of defence spending that we have not seen for 15 years. As far as the new President goes, it is early days—he has only just been elected—and we will ensure that as a Government and as a country we work closely with him and with the US.
Harpreet Uppal (Huddersfield) (Lab)
As world leaders meet this week at the G20 in Brazil, what steps is the Defence Secretary taking with his international counterparts —other Defence Secretaries at the G20, in particular—about the urgent situation in Gaza, particularly for civilians and children?
John Healey
My hon. Friend is right. For nearly nine months—in opposition and now in government—we have been calling for and working for a ceasefire in Gaza to get all hostages released and, importantly, to flood the area with the aid that the Palestinians so desperately need. That has to be the first step towards a political solution that can see a Palestinian state and security both for Israel and for the Palestinians in future.
Jamie Stone (Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross) (LD)
In the UK we have some very special skills when it comes to developing future defence equipment. To lose those skills would be a desperate business. Does the Secretary of State agree that co-operating and working with our friends in Europe is one way to preserve them?
Maria Eagle
The hon. Gentleman is correct. There are increasing examples of industry working across our European nations, both in the EU with our improving relationships on defence and in NATO. That is one way in which we can ensure that the skills are available to make the equipment that we need.
Steve Yemm (Mansfield) (Lab)
Due to a lack of funding, many reservists in my constituency are not getting the training days they need and are therefore not receiving the salary that they had anticipated. That means that many highly trained and committed reservists have no choice but to leave and join another career. Will the Minister outline what the Labour Government will do to support our reservists, including those who live in my constituency, all of whom are a vital part of our armed forces?
Al Carns
As an individual who signed up in just the past two weeks to be a reserve, this matter is close to my heart. We are doing a review into reservists over the next couple of weeks, which will be linked to the strategic defence review, to find out how we can simplify the process and make it easier for people to join and serve the armed forces in a way that is befitting to them.
Ben Obese-Jecty (Huntingdon) (Con)
Labour’s manifesto made it clear that it was committed to scrapping visa fees for non-UK veterans who have served this country for four or more years, as well as their dependants—a pledge I wholeheartedly support and have campaigned on. The Veterans Minister previously stated that the MOD has started to work with the Home Office, so what is the timetable for delivering that manifesto pledge?
Al Carns
We are working on that. It is in the manifesto, and it will come out in due course.
Shaun Davies (Telford) (Lab)
We were delighted to host the Veterans Minister in Telford recently. In a survey of the veterans community in Telford, access to healthcare was the top priority. What work is the Department doing with health Ministers to improve access for veterans to healthcare, in particular mental health care?
Al Carns
I thank my hon. Friend for hosting that visit. The two key programmes are Op Courage, which has had 30,000 referrals already, and Op Restore, to help veterans with muscular and skeletal problems. I point any veteran to the gov.uk page that describes all the support that they can get via the NHS and others.
Martin Wrigley (Newton Abbot) (LD)
Small and medium-sized enterprises in my constituency tell me that research and development funding has dried up since last December. What hope can the Minister offer to ensure that SMEs continue their vital innovation to keep the UK safe, and to help them turn their swords into ploughshares?
Maria Eagle
The hon. Gentleman is right to highlight the importance of SMEs in improving our industrial base and bringing agility and new ideas to our defence industrial production. He can be assured that there will be SME involvement in our industrial strategy to the extent that it is possible. We intend to make sure that SMEs, not just the primes, get a better in at the MOD and are able to get the work.
Chris Bloore (Redditch) (Lab)
Will the Minister join me in congratulating the Royal British Legion for another highly successful poppy appeal, and the Redditch and Astwood Bank Royal British Legion for another record-breaking year?
Al Carns
I completely concur. I am sure the whole House will agree that the Royal British Legion did a fantastic job in this year’s remembrance parade. I had the privilege of marching with the veterans for the first time since I left the armed forces. It was a fantastic show of respect to all those who have served.
Alicia Kearns (Rutland and Stamford) (Con)
Between 1978 and 1990, in what was an illegal act, 5,700 women were dismissed and discharged from the armed forces on family grounds—for falling pregnant while in service. This is not a question of compensation; they want their berets and cap badges returned to them. Will the Minister please work with me to right an injustice done to all those women who just wanted to keep serving their country, and now want that service recognised?
Al Carns
That is a really important question. We have the utmost respect for all those who have served. I would be delighted to work with the hon. Lady to move that forward.