Westminster Hall

Wednesday 16th October 2024 Westminster Hall

Wednesday 16 October 2024

[Carolyn Harris in the Chair]

Steel Industry

Wednesday 16th October 2024 Westminster Hall

09:30

[Richard Tice (Boston and Skegness) (Reform)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the steel industry.

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Harris. I want you to imagine that you are standing at a railway station in deepest rural India. You look down at the tracks on the ground and you see those immortal words “Sheffield Steel 1895”. That happened to me six and a half years ago. It sent a complete shiver down my spine—a shiver of pride in what we have given to the world, what we have created, what we have achieved. For 130 years, those railway tracks have been there, yet fast-forward to today and we face what I believe is a potential catastrophe.

Let us just take stock of where we are. I think we are potentially within six to 12 months of having zero general steel-making capacity in the United Kingdom. Just think about that. I fear that the blast furnaces at Scunthorpe, owned by British Steel, part of the Chinese group Jingye, are very likely to close, and that would be an absolute disaster. Steelmaking, manufacturing, in the United Kingdom has halved in the last 10 years or so. We would be left as a complete rump. Think about it: we would be the only G20 nation without a blast furnace except Saudi Arabia and the only G20 nation with no general steel-making capacity whatever. I think there is a lesson in that.

Perhaps it is not so smart to lose all our steel-making capacity at a time when 71% of all steel manufactured around the world is made in blast furnaces. Even if all the electric arc furnaces that have been announced are built, which of course they will not be, we will only get to a balance, in 2050, of about 50-50. The majority of all new steel-making capacity around the world being built as we speak comes from blast furnaces. There is a reason for that. And here in the UK, imports of steel from the likes of China, India and Vietnam are soaring. Hang on—I thought we were supposed to be world leaders in steel, but 66% of all steelmaking around the world happens in nations that either have no net zero targets or have targets that are general and way beyond 2050.

Now that the truth has been told to us, which is that electricity prices in the United Kingdom are the highest in the developed world—in the House of Commons the other week, the Secretary of State for Business and Trade admitted to me that there was an issue with industrial electricity prices—my real fear is that the electric arc furnaces that have been promised down at Port Talbot, and potentially promised in Scunthorpe if the blast furnaces there close, will not actually be viable. If something is not viable and we are asking a firm to invest hundreds of millions of pounds in it, they will not build it—and that is before National Grid informs us, “Oh, in Scunthorpe we can’t get you a grid connection for the electricity that you need to run an electric arc furnace.” You genuinely could not make some of this stuff up. Because our electricity prices are so high, these electric arc furnaces are quite likely to be less viable than is the case when it comes to concerns about the viability of blast furnaces.

Five and a half years ago, I gave a press conference in Scunthorpe. I said back then that the Conservative Government should not sell British Steel to the Chinese. They ignored my advice—not for the first time and probably not the last—but we are where we are. We face catastrophe, for three critical reasons. The first is that steel is a strategic national interest. After food and water, steel is the third most important component of a modern civilisation. Without steel, we would have no internet, no cars, no buildings, no infrastructure—nothing. We would be back to mud huts; I do not call that progress. It is strategically important to be able to make the strongest steel. There are genuine concerns that if we have no blast furnaces, we will not be able to make primary steel. Some say that with new technology and direct reduced iron, the strength of steel produced in electric arc furnaces may, give or take, equal what can be produced in blast furnaces, but we cannot take the risk. We must have that capacity.

Hon. Members may say, “Well, why not have a bit of each?” My late grandmother, when faced with a choice of desserts, would say, “I’ll have a bit of each.” There is nothing wrong with that, but we cannot have nothing. For someone who likes desserts, there is nothing worse than having no dessert at all.

Four years ago, in the middle of 2020, we nearly ran out of paracetamol, which is pretty important. Why? Because it is all made in India. We make no paracetamol in the United Kingdom and the sun was not shining in mid-2020, as we all remember. It is all very well those who believe in free markets and globalisation to the detriment of everything saying, “Well, you can just buy it from elsewhere,” but what happens if the sun is not shining? What happens if there is some terrible event in the world and we cannot buy steel elsewhere? That exposes us, because steel is strategically important, so we must be able to produce it here in the UK.

The second reason why I think a potential catastrophe is facing us is the economic interest. There is a thing called the multiplier effect: if we make and manufacture things here in the United Kingdom with our own jobs and money, the wealth we create circulates around the economy. I call it bubble-up economics: when we create and make things, it bubbles up from the lowest point, and the money circulates around the economy. That is hugely powerful at a time when everyone is desperately talking about the need for growth. We will not get growth if we export all our jobs and money. We might buy the good that arrives here, but we do not benefit from the multiplier effect, and therefore we lose the power of growth.

Some will say, “Hang on. Tata lost lots of money over the last 10 years or so. It’s not viable.” Well, let us just take a look at its losses, shall we? Leave aside the one-in-100-year event of 2020, cumulatively, in the overall scheme of things—relative to the multiplier effect—its losses frankly amount to a decent round of drinks. Let us call it £100 million a year, give or take. Compare that to the size of the economy and the importance of the multiplier effect.

I would suggest to the House that it is vital that we keep steel manufacturing going in a sizeable way in the United Kingdom. Not to do so would cause a self-inflicted wound, driven by the main two political parties’ obsession with net zero. That is the reality. Net zero, and the increase in renewable energy capacity, is directly linked to the increase in our electricity prices, and to the fact that we are becoming ever more uncompetitive. The Tories started it, and now under the new net zero zealot-in-chief—the new Secretary of State for Energy—it is being accelerated.

We are promised that the bills will come down, but I was at an event last week with someone who is advising the World Economic Forum and the G20 nations about renewable projects, and he admitted—in a defining moment for me—that without subsidies and Government intervention, renewables cannot be viable. That means, by definition, that they are more expensive and that those who are obsessed with them in this country will not bring the bills down. At some point, there will be a day of reckoning.

The third reason why this is a catastrophe is what I call the community interest. We saw the devastation in the coal-mining communities in the 1980s; when I have been campaigning, I still hear people talk about that. That was absolutely devastating. The oil and gas industry is under huge threat at the moment because of net zero, which is again devastating. There is a huge loss of the multiplier effect, skills are disappearing and families are concerned.

In Port Talbot and Scunthorpe, there are not thousands but tens of thousands of jobs directly and indirectly dependent on this industry, which could disappear within 12 months. It is not just the jobs; it is the families, the partners, the spouses, the wives, the children. That makes hundreds of thousands of people devastated by this. These are seriously well paid jobs: the average value of a steel job is about 50% more than the average salary in the local area.

It is all very well saying that people can retrain, but if someone earning up there retrains and all of a sudden is earning down there, I do not call that progress—I call that going backwards. The truth is that this issue will have a devastating impact on those communities. I feel that the unions have let down their members and betrayed them.

A year ago, I wanted to go and talk to more than a thousand steelworkers in Port Talbot. I met a couple of brave union leaders in secret in a quiet room. I said I wanted to talk to everybody and tell them about the madness of what is going on but, oh no. The union leaders banned me from talking to the steelworkers and telling them the truth.

Here we are today, with thousands of jobs sacrificed on the altar of net zero in Port Talbot, with the risk facing Scunthorpe in front of us. Lots of people say, “Don’t worry, Richard. We’ll be a world leader in this stuff.” Really—a world leader? I suggest that the only things we will be a world leader in are naivety, stupidity and negligence. The truth is that behind our backs, other countries making steel, growing their economies and enjoying cheap energy are laughing at us. They cannot believe how foolish we are. They cannot believe that we are serious about destroying some of our finest manufacturing industries, but they will take it. They are benefiting and we are losing.

This is an absolute disaster. One might ask, “What can we do about it?” I have a plan and most of it is achievable by this Government. The first thing is that the Business Secretary has promised us a new steel strategy next March. I happen to know that that strategy is basically drafted and written, with just a few i’s to dot and t’s to cross. I have been told that that draft is very much there.

[The Minister for Industry (Sarah Jones)]

indicated dissent.

[Richard Tice]

The Minister indicates that I may be wrong. This is urgent and we cannot wait six to 12 months. We cannot run the risk of civil servants saying, “I’m sorry, but we haven’t got it done by March; it will be the summer.” I urge the Minister and her team to say, “Let’s get this out before Christmas.”

My five-point plan is first to take a strategic stake in British Steel to guarantee that the blast furnaces in Scunthorpe will not close. We cannot run that risk. Otherwise, if the electric arc furnaces are not built, we have nothing—niente, zip. The second part of my plan is to scrap the carbon taxes and the potential carbon border adjustment mechanism.

The third thing is to stop the dumping of cheap imports from nations such as China. That requires, if necessary, appropriate tariffs and protectionism. America is doing it to protect its own steel industry and we should do the same. Unbelievably, according to the House of Commons Library, which helpfully produced a 50-page report yesterday, just two weeks ago, far from increasing tariffs we had to reduce tariffs on imported steel because Port Talbot has closed. Seriously, you couldn’t make this up. It is absolute insanity that we are now reducing tariffs in order to import steel. With the long-term planning that should have happened under the Conservative Government, we could have worked out that if we shut Port Talbot we would be short of rolled steel. What are we going to do about it? That is what has gone on. So that is the third part of my plan.

The fourth part is to buy British. The Secretary of State for Energy Security and Net Zero wants more and more wind turbines, but as I understand it not a single bit of British steel is used in all those turbines, which all come from overseas. If we want more turbines—some people do; some do not—maybe we should make it a condition that we use British steel to grow our own economy with more jobs and more money. Those four things plus the fifth thing are all deliverable by this Government. That is what I urge the Minister to consider.

The fifth thing is the right thing to do. I accept that it is not going to happen, but if we want cheaper electricity and to be more competitive, the fastest way to do it is to scrap net zero. That would bring down prices. It would stop us wasting tens of billions of pounds and stop blighting our countryside with thousands and thousands of pylons, including in my constituency. The first four components of my five-point plan the Government can and should do to protect our steel industry, which is strategically vital. Not to do so is negligent to the point of criminality.

[Carolyn Harris (in the Chair)]

I remind Members that they should bob if they wish to be called.

09:46

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

It is, as always, a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Harris. I declare an interest as a member of the Community and GMB unions and as chair of the Community parliamentary group.

I congratulate the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Richard Tice) on securing what I think is the first debate on steel in this Parliament. We have had many debates on steel during the Parliaments in which I have been here. I of course agree that the steel industry is of the utmost strategic importance to this country, our economy and our security, and we must cherish it. It is vital that we protect it. I draw the hon. Gentleman’s attention to the very active all-party parliamentary group for steel and metals-related industries, which has fought for our steel industry for many years. I hope he will take an interest in that group and play a constructive part in it in the months ahead.

I chose to ask the Prime Minister my first question of this Parliament about steel and the need for the new Government, who I know are very serious about steel— we have inherited a very difficult situation—to work in partnership with businesses and trade unions to secure a transition that is right for the workforce and delivers economic growth. Because of our past, we in Wales know well that deindustrialisation can be devastating for our communities. In his reply to me the Prime Minister confirmed that he understands that we need our steel in this country and need it made in this country, and we are going to need more, not less. We need steel to deliver our green infrastructure. It is the duty of the Government to ensure that jobs, communities and people are not ignored in the transition.

[Alex Ballinger (Halesowen) (Lab)]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving way and the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Richard Tice) for securing this important debate. The west midlands region is the third largest region for the steel industry, with 5,000 jobs generated there. In my Black Country constituency of Halesowen, many jobs are in the steel sector, including at Crosby’s forge, which I was lucky enough to visit a few months ago. Although I support the green transition, does my hon. Friend agree that a decision is needed to consider what is right for the workforce in the steel industry? Any decision should safeguard the future of the steel industry in the west midlands.

[Jessica Morden]

The steel industry is important for many of our communities and, as we know, on average jobs in the industry pay more in the communities that really need them, such as mine in south Wales and my hon. Friend’s. I agree that our communities and the downstream industries that depend on steel should have a fair and just transition. I look forward to working on this issue with the new steel Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon West (Sarah Jones), and with the steel unions—Community, GMB and Unite—which stand up strongly for their workforce, have worked incredibly hard for their members, and understand the value of those jobs, as well as with the trade body UK Steel.

For us in Wales, and clearly in Scunthorpe too, it has been an extremely challenging time for the steel industry. The deal for Port Talbot inherited from the last Government means support for the new electric arc furnace to secure the long-term future, but the closure of the blast furnaces means heavy job losses. The new Government’s deal is better than the plan announced by the last Government in September 2023—it sees improved redundancy packages and training, as well as more commitments on investment —but if this Government had been able to start negotiations even a year earlier, I have no doubt that they would have got an even better deal.

Over the last 14 years, Members who represent steel communities, including my hon. Friend the Member for Aberafan Maesteg (Stephen Kinnock), fought hard for investment and an industrial strategy for a fair transition—or simply for any kind of plan—from the Conservative Government, but we were fighting a Government who had no industrial strategy, just occasional sticking-plaster solutions. There was a revolving door in the Department that saw 12 steel Ministers come and go. That was a dereliction of duty that left the steel industry in an extremely perilous position. It was woeful neglect.

I am pleased that the new Government acknowledge the scale of the challenge. Labour Members have never believed that decline is inevitable; we want to see the industry not just adapt but thrive. I welcome the Secretary of State’s announcement that there is to be a steel strategy in the spring. I look forward to Members being part of it and to the Government giving us a long-term plan, which we have desperately needed.

I am proud to have represented Llanwern steelworks as the constituency MP for almost 20 years. I pay tribute to the workforce and the trade union reps, who have been through phenomenally difficult times but are passionate and committed to what they do. We produce world-class products in Llanwern. Our automative steel is fantastic. I hope that the commitments on investment in Llanwern that the new Government secured in their deal with Tata will keep the site and its world-class workforce at the cutting edge of steelmaking. Llanwern is a living example of the potential that investment and innovation can bring to our industrial heartlands. In recent months it has reached a new output record of 14 kilotonnes in a week, following the introduction of new technology on the ZODIAC—zinc and other developments in alloy coatings—galvanising line.

I come to my asks. UK steelmakers need competitive electricity prices. As I have said many times in debates on steel over the years, they pay 50% more than competitors in France and Germany, and that adds £37 million to UK steel electricity costs. Will the Minister address that when she responds to the debate, and at least commit to tracking the disparity between countries? We must address the issue of the UK carbon border adjustment mechanism. UK Steel asks that we move forward the implementation in line with the EU, which is implementing it in 2026, lest displaced steel from the EU flood into the UK.

With steel safeguards expiring in 2026, we must work with the industry to address the issue of global overcapacity. This year alone, China is expected to export 100 million tonnes of steel—equivalent to the entire UK steel supply for 13 years. That is a significant threat with the potential to impact any Government support for the industry elsewhere. I also hope that procurement will be at the heart of the steel strategy. With this Government’s ambitions for house building, new energy projects, wind turbines, and offshore and onshore wind, we will need lots of steel. Let us make sure that it is UK steel.

Steel is vital to any climate solution, and steelworkers themselves accept the need to decarbonise, but they need to partner with a Government who are committed to a just transition. I know that with this steel Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Croydon West, we can all work together to ensure that.

09:54

[Martin Vickers (Brigg and Immingham) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mrs Harris. I congratulate the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Richard Tice) on securing this timely debate.

Part of the British steel site at Scunthorpe falls within my Brigg and Immingham constituency, so needless to say I take a keen interest in its future. The site is known across the country and further afield for the steel it produces, which is top-quality virgin steel made from raw materials. This method of production results in products used for rail tracks and tyre wire, all the way to cruise ships and the Shard. British steel can be found all over the world. The steelworkers who make this world-class product are understandably proud of the skills they possess.

There is widespread, cross-party agreement that steel is incredibly important for everything we do, from defence to growth, which the hon. Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) mentioned. If anything can be defined as a core industry—one of genuine strategic importance—it must be steel.

Workers and their families in my constituency and across northern Lincolnshire are incredibly concerned. They have heard rumours and seen press reports in recent weeks that suggest an early end to the imports of coke, the imminent closure of blast furnaces and escalating plans to import steel from the other side of the world to replace the products they make. Understandably, they want to know once and for all whether the rumours are true. They want certainty on whether the plan is to keep the blast furnaces running at least until electric arc furnaces are fully operational—does that still stand?

Prior to the election, Labour candidates stood on a platform of support for the UK steel industry, and billions of pounds were pledged. My constituents have not forgotten what they were told. They want to know where those billions are going and they want to see them spent in Scunthorpe. Will the Minister level with workers at the Scunthorpe site and set out exactly what this Government’s intentions are? Do they want to keep a domestic steel industry, like many countries around the world, or do they not?

The absolute least that the workforce at Scunthorpe deserve is for the Government to be completely frank with them on this issue. Do the Government value the work of steelmakers in Scunthorpe? Do they value the strategic capability of our nation to make our own steel? Do they want to keep domestic steel production for use in infrastructure and defence? How and when are they going secure that? If they cannot answer yes to those questions, can they explain what is so exceptional about the UK that means we cannot aspire to maintain a steel industry? The reality is that maintaining a steel industry will always demand support from the public purse. Without a steel industry, we are in effect admitting that we no longer aspire to be a major manufacturing nation and accepting that we do not value the defence industry.

In discussions on steel there are those who like to criticise the efforts of the previous Government. Although I do not want to spend the short time I have on political point scoring, I do think it is worth setting out some of the realities. The Conservative Government extended trade tariffs on steel products twice in the last Parliament; they did this having listened to MPs and businesses. It is a fact that they brought forward measures to help energy costs, and that they paid workers’ wages at Scunthorpe for many months to maintain jobs, skills and the site itself during the sale of the business five years ago. These were tangible, proactive decisions made by a Government who understood the importance of steel to our nation.

The former Member for Scunthorpe, Holly Mumby-Croft, mentioned steel over 200 times in questions and debates during her time in the House. I recognise that the current hon. Member for Scunthorpe (Sir Nicholas Dakin) is a Minister, meaning, I presume, that he supports the Government’s policies in relation to the steel industry. If his mailbag is similar to mine, he will know the scale of anxiety across the whole area. Just last week he was calling for a deal at Scunthorpe similar to the one in south Wales, where thousands of workers are set to lose their jobs. I want to see a policy that supports jobs, produces top-quality steel and supports the whole supply chain, which Scunthorpe relies on.

Under the last Labour Government, steel production and jobs halved in the UK. Will the Minister reassure workers at the Scunthorpe site that this Labour Government do not intend to repeat that legacy? I understand that the Minister is involved in current negotiations and will not be able to share all the detail the discussions. If that is the case, can she at least give the workers some clarity on when she expects there to be an announcement on the future of the site? Will she also reassure residents that she is working with North Lincolnshire council’s leader Rob Waltham, who proactively travelled to China a few weeks ago to meet the owners in person? He is taking a front-and-centre role in putting together a masterplan for the site to ensure that jobs and opportunities are brought to the area. He must be fully supported by the Government in that work; will the Minister confirm that that support will be offered?

I am conscious that there are those who will challenge the continuation of blast furnace steelmaking on environmental grounds, but it is quite clear that ending the production of virgin steel in the UK, and then importing virgin steel from abroad, would simply be offshoring our own emissions and adding the emissions involved in the transport of the steel to the UK. We should certainly not consider patting ourselves on the back for making environmental improvements if the Government’s plan is simply to allow the same or worse levels of emissions to be created elsewhere and for the steel then to be brought to the UK on diesel ships.

[Lee Anderson (Ashfield) (Reform)]

The hon. Member is making a great speech and makes a great point. Does he agree that if we are going to go down this road of net zero madness and make our steel more expensive, we should ban steel and steel products from other countries that are made in blast furnaces?

[Martin Vickers]

There would certainly be a case for the point the hon. Member makes. I gently point out that net zero is actually crucial to the economy of northern Lincolnshire, which I represent—I am thinking of the Humber Zero project and similar schemes.

I think you are urging me to come to a conclusion, Mrs Harris, so I will miss the next two or three pages out. I will say that whatever deal is reached now is in this Government’s hands. This an industry that, if lost, will be lost forever. I call on the Minister to redouble her efforts to secure the future of steelmaking in Scunthorpe and throughout the country. It is hard to exaggerate how crucial this is to Scunthorpe, to northern Lincolnshire and to the UK as a whole. We must bring this situation to a conclusion speedily to avoid the anxiety that workers are currently experiencing.

10:02

[Chris McDonald (Stockton North) (Lab)]

It is, as always, a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Harris, and I congratulate the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Richard Tice) on securing the debate. As many hon. Members will know, I have a background in the steel industry, so, rather than recite all of my interests, I simply refer people to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.

I listened very carefully to the speech from the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness. There were a few points of difference, but, actually, there was much on which I agreed, so I look forward to him and his colleagues coming forward and supporting the Government’s steel strategy in due course.

Turning to the position in which we find ourselves in the steel industry, the Government have an unenviable task as a result of the legacy that we were left by the previous Government. I listened when the hon. Member for Brigg and Immingham (Martin Vickers) talked about the changes to tariffs made by the previous Government. They did make those changes, but they stuck rigidly to a suite of policies that denied the possibility of private sector capital investment coming into the UK’s steel industry by making it unviable. I know that well from the international investors I worked with in the industry. They were very keen to invest in the UK, but we could never get an appropriate rate of return as a direct result of policies pursued by that Government.

The Conservative Government knew that well; they knew it when the Redcar blast furnace closed in 2015 and when they stood back and let it fail for the want of the purchase of some coal. At the time, it was the most productive and efficient blast furnace in Europe. The hon. Member for Brigg and Immingham mentioned Scunthorpe; prior to 2020, the Conservative Government poured £1 billion into Scunthorpe but did not invest any of that money in transitioning to new technology that would have actually created a great future for people in Scunthorpe, and a return for the taxpayer, too. Instead, they sold the plant off cheaply.

Therefore, I do not envy the position of my hon. and right hon. colleagues in the Department for Business and Trade, who are wrestling with this legacy. Essentially, they are putting out the fires of the previous Government, and we will see, when the steel strategy has been brought forward, how we can create a bright future for the industry. We need to do that, and I support the calls to do it, but I think that the challenge is not actually about adherence to net zero; it is about adherence to a different ideology, which has been to assume that the steel industry operates in a free market and that we can treat it as such. It does not. Other countries around the world support their steel industries, so we need to create a level playing field for investment in our steel industry, too. If we do that then we can attract billions of pounds of private sector investment into our industry, as countries such as Austria, Sweden, Germany, France and so on do.

Over the past 10 years we have seen the UK steel industry collapse to the same size as Belgium’s. Surely the UK should have the ambition to at least be as good as Belgium and have a steel industry that can serve us as well as the Belgian steel industry serves its country. Of course, we can do that to compete globally and to create the products that we need for our green transition. The previous Government knew that quite well: a report on confidence and capabilities, which I co-authored, can be found on the Government website from 2017. It identified gaps in plate steels for offshore wind, seamless tubes for nuclear power and other areas as well. The previous Government made no effort to fill those gaps because, of course, they turned their back on private sector investment.

It is important that the steel strategy is brought forward in a way that will attract private sector investment and enable us to accelerate the green transition of our steel industry. Here I come to the point of difference with Opposition Members: the green transition is not an ideology, it is an economic imperative. We need to move away from blast furnaces because they are unproductive compared with the latest steel technologies. Steel plants operating electric arc furnaces are five times more productive than those operating blast furnaces.

[Lee Anderson]

indicated dissent.

[Chris McDonald]

The hon. Member chunters about it, but the most productive steel plant in the world is based in the USA. It is entirely privately funded and produces the same quality of steel as Port Talbot at the same quantity with one fifth of the workforce, because it is automated and it uses electric arc furnaces. If we get energy prices right, we can make that investment here and we can produce those steels too.

The UK is the second largest exporter of scrap in the world. That is a valuable natural resource that we could use in the UK, but we do need primary steelmaking and we need it to use the most efficient technologies. I am afraid, for those people who adhere to blast furnace technology, that that is not the blast furnace. I look forward to my hon. Friend the Minister bringing forward the steel strategy, and to supporting it and debating it further. I look forward to a bright future for steel in the UK.

10:07

[Lee Anderson (Ashfield) (Reform)]

It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Mrs Harris. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Richard Tice) for securing the debate, and for making probably the best speech so far of this Parliament—it was absolutely fantastic. Government Members are harping on about the steel strategy. I can assure them that steelworkers will be frightened to death of that strategy, because it will cost jobs and destroy our steel industry and our communities. I fear the steel strategy.

In the 19th century, this great country of ours was the world leader in steel production. Over 40% of the world’s steel was made right here in this country. I do not live a million miles away from Sheffield—15 minutes up the road—and not far away from Scunny. They were great industrial towns that drove our economy and provided hundreds of thousands of jobs, including in the wider community. They built up communities, and it is a shame that the Labour Government seem intent on destroying even more of the few communities that we have left.

Our country was built on coal and steel. Throughout the midlands and the north, we drove the industrial revolution. We used to export steel and coal, and now what are we doing? We have gone backwards. China is making over 1 billion tonnes of steel a year; we are making about 5.6 million tonnes. China, by the way, is a world leader in renewables, yet it is still opening coal-fired power stations to make steel, which it can export all around the world.

If we think about it, we are actually carbon emission nimbys. We are quite happy to import steel and products made from steel that have been made with blast furnaces from 60 or 70 countries around the world, but we say that we cannot do it here. That is hypocrisy of the highest level. I have friends who work in the steel industry and they are seeing a real downturn at the moment —they are struggling. They are struggling to pay the bills and to make their business work. The industry is in terminal decline, I fear.

The collapse of the Port Talbot steelworks means that we are now the only advanced nation in the world that cannot make its own virgin steel. It is absolutely ridiculous. We have Russia at war with Ukraine, and we are living in uncertain times. Over the past few years and during the last Parliament, we saw the problems that we had with energy supply and our dependence on foreign states for it. Now we are doing more of the same with our steel. It is beyond comprehension; it is absolute madness. We are killing off our steel communities just like we did the coalmining communities back in the ’80s—I know because I was there. I saw the impact that it had, and it still has devastating consequences 40 years later. Those communities were killed off and they are still struggling. I live there and I see it day in, day out, yet we are going to get more of the same from this Government.

Look at the coal mine in Cumbria that we want to—and should—open to produce metallurgical coal that will then help in the production of steel, which we could blend and use in blast furnaces in this country. But we seem reluctant to do that. That coal mine would produce millions of tonnes of metallurgical coal and provide 500 to 600 well-paid jobs in an area that needs them, as well as more jobs in the wider community. However, we are quite prepared to import 3 million or 4 million tonnes of coal a year into this country, rather than produce it, use it in this country and hopefully export some as well. It is absolute madness.

My hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness spoke about the high electricity charges that will mean high production costs for making steel. Look at Drax power station in North Yorkshire. The electricity prices coming from there are astronomical. That is a power station that burns wood. It used to burn coal from a coal mine just a few miles down the road, but we had this great idea in this country to import wood from trees chopped down in North America. We stick them on to diesel-guzzling cargo ships, send them over the Atlantic and then set fire to them in a power station in North Yorkshire. It is absolute madness, and it will drive up the price of electricity and subsequently drive up the price of steel production. It is beyond madness.

China is getting it right; not only is it a world leader in renewables but it is making steel from blast furnaces. China is right and we should be copying its so-called steel strategy. It seems to have got it right. I agree with the five-point plan proposed by my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness but I feel that it will probably fall on deaf ears. The madness will continue. Steelworks will continue to close down and we will continue to lose jobs. We will continue to destroy communities in our great country.

[The Minister for Industry (Sarah Jones)]

indicated dissent.

[Lee Anderson]

Do you want to intervene, Minister?

[Carolyn Harris (in the Chair)]

Order. Mr Anderson, I am “you”.

[Lee Anderson]

Sorry, Mrs Harris. I will wind up now because I am quite angry with the madness of this place that we work in. There are families and communities out there relying on us to save their jobs, and Members opposite sit there with glazed expressions on their faces. Come the next election, people in those communities will boot you all out.

10:13

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mrs Harris. It seems like only a few minutes ago that you were chairing the last debate yesterday in Westminster Hall, and here you are again. I commend you on your perseverance and obviously on the fact that you do not need any sleep at all to look fresh and well—well done.

First, I thank the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Richard Tice) for leading today’s debate. As he always does, he set the scene in a very admirable way, underlining his concerns, which many of us in this Chamber share as well. There is no doubt that this is an incredibly important debate not just for myself but others, and we need to discuss these matters.

Looking at the steel industry in the UK over the years, it dates back as far as the 17th century when steel production was initially established. Steel was traditionally used for larger projects such as bridge building and weight-bearing items like rail tracks—the hon. Member referred to the trains and rails in India. In 2020, steel contributed some £2 billion to our economy and was responsible for 0.1% of the total UK economic output. Jumping forward to 2023, the latest reports show that UK steel production and demand plummeted to new historic lows of 5.6 million tonnes and 7.6 million tonnes respectively, which fall well below the levels seen at the peak of the pandemic in 2020. That is unfortunately quite discouraging.

I should have said at the start, and I apologise for not doing so, that it is nice to see the Minister in her place—I wish her well. She was telling me earlier in our conversation on the way to the hall that she has dual responsibilities. I very much look forward to her response to our inquiries. Everybody’s wish in this Chamber is to see the steel industry secured. It is also nice to see the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire (Greg Smith), in his place, and I look forward to his constructive contribution.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

In the positive tone my hon. Friend is adopting, and maybe in a light-hearted sense, would he agree that a man yesterday showed considerable backbone, of real steel: Michael O’Neill, the Northern Ireland manager, who picked a team of under-21s and thrashed Bulgaria 5-0? That is a real backbone of steel and we need to see some positive results like that from this debate.

[Jim Shannon]

I am sure the Minister has many football skills. Last night one of the players, the young fellow Price, scored a hat trick—yes, it was an admirable victory. If everybody showed that backbone and strength of character, certainly we would be in a better place. I thank my hon. Friend—I know that was moving away completely from the subject matter but he nonetheless reinforced the point to be made.

Northern Ireland plays an important role in the success of the UK steel industry, although back in 2022 that was under attack from the damages of the Northern Ireland protocol and the outbreak of war in Ukraine. It was said at the time that steel exports from Northern Ireland could face up to 25% tax and tariffs, but it is good to report today that that has since been addressed by the Windsor framework. That is one of the positives that came out of that process: I wish there were more.

What springs to mind is the 1,100 steel businesses across all parts of the United Kingdom and the 33,400 jobs that hinge on them—we cannot ignore those; they are so important. We have seen recently the threats to job security due to decisions to close production in certain steel plants. Only two weeks ago, Tata shut down its blast furnace 4, which was the final furnace operating at the UK’s biggest steelworks in Port Talbot. That resulted in 2,800 job losses across south Wales, not to mention that Port Talbot was pivotal to steel construction in Northern Ireland. That is why, in debates on steel, we do not necessarily have to have a manufacturing base in our constituency to see the benefits. The benefits for us in Northern Ireland were quite clear: the steel produced in Port Talbot came to Northern Ireland.

The hon. Member for Boston and Skegness rightly raised concerns about the impact that our net zero advancements could have on the steel sector. It is crucial that we get this correct while ensuring a proper balance. Our defence industry relies heavily on domestic home-grown steel to build tanks and warships. That raises issues of us potentially relying too much on foreign imports, which the hon. Member referred. We should not ignore that, and our focus should be on providing incentives to the fantastic local companies we already have and putting them front and centre to the UK steel sector’s success. We must modernise to advance our steel industry and properly take care of it and get it right together.

We must also be able to source steel locally; doing so is of major importance for many industries across the United Kingdom, from aerospace and defence to boats and other transport. For us in Northern Ireland, the aerospace sector is very important.

I know the debate is not about this but I want to ask the Minister a question about Harland & Wolff that I had hoped to ask in Defence questions. Will the Minister give Northern Ireland Members some update on where we are with Harland & Wolff? During my discussion with the Minister about Defence questions on Monday, the Minister said, “Jim, ask this question and I’ll be happy to come back with an answer.” Harland & Wolff is really important, No.1, for the jobs it provides, but also for the connectivity that we have, with all parts of the United Kingdom coming together. Defence and aerospace are important for our manufacturing base in Northern Ireland, but also for the continuation of how we work better together.

I support our steel system. I want the best for it. We all want the best for it and I know that. I also hear and respect the concerns of other Members about its future. And there is no doubt at all that more needs to be done to preserve and protect it.

In conclusion, society will progress and changes will be made, but it is important that we remember the benefits that our steel sector brings to the United Kingdom economy. Moreover, there are the jobs that it provides for my constituents in Strangford and for people further afield—indeed, in all areas of this great United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland. So, I sincerely look forward to hearing from the Minister and assessing what steps our Government will take to preserve our steel sector, and I have hope—much hope—that that action will allow for all of our nations to play their part together.

[Carolyn Harris (in the Chair)]

I call the Lib Dem spokesperson, Clive Jones, to speak.

10:20

[Clive Jones (Wokingham) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Harris, and I congratulate the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Richard Tice) on securing this debate. It is also a pleasure to speak for the first time in my capacity as a Lib Dem Front-Bench spokesman.

Steelmaking is of vital strategic importance to the UK. We need to build the crucial infrastructure required to generate sustainable growth and to safeguard our national security, which must be important to all of us in this Chamber today.

Although the Liberal Democrats welcome the news that new technologies will lead to carbon emissions from steelmaking in Britain falling, the neglect of the steel industry in recent years is just another part of the previous Conservative Government’s disastrous legacy. This Government finally need to move from a patchwork of last-minute rescues to a long-term plan that will set the steel industry on a sustainable footing.

The steel industry’s situation illustrates that we desperately need a real industrial strategy that includes a proper plan for steel. Although I welcome the Government’s Green Paper, which was published earlier this week, and hope that it will provide our business community with much-needed certainty in the eight sectors that the Government have highlighted as being growth drivers, the absence of the word “steel” is strikingly apparent.

We accept the need to move towards less carbon-intensive modes of production, but it is vital that any job losses are mitigated by reskilling, retraining and new green investment. We must be certain that this investment in skills and regeneration is properly targeted where it can have the greatest impact on communities that currently rely heavily on steel production.

With 2,800 jobs set to be lost, the Government need to take action as soon as possible to bring certainty for those employed in steelworks. So, I ask the Minister today what the Department is doing to ensure that job losses are mitigated, and how will the steel strategy, which is set to be published next year, link to an industrial strategy?

[Carolyn Harris (in the Chair)]

I call the shadow Minister, Greg Smith, to speak.

10:23

[Greg Smith (Mid Buckinghamshire) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Harris.

I thank and congratulate the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Richard Tice) for securing this debate in Westminster Hall this morning. I also thank everyone who has contributed to it, particularly the hon. Member for East Londonderry (Mr Campbell), whose intervention will potentially go down in history as one of the most innovative ways to participate in a debate on steel, and my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Immingham (Martin Vickers) for his superb contribution.

Just a few weeks ago, I challenged the Minister in the main Chamber on the Government’s approach, not just to Port Talbot but to the UK’s entire steel industry, yet just a couple of weeks later we are on the cusp of Scunthorpe steelworks potentially closing completely by Christmas, despite the owner’s clear ask to the Government to safeguard what amounts to thousands of jobs and a vital component of our economic security. If we let Scunthorpe close, on top of Port Talbot, we risk becoming dependent on cheap imports, particularly from China.

Although I understand that the Chancellor and the Prime Minister have had some issues understanding their own manifesto commitments of late, surely the Government cannot possibly have dropped their clear commitment to steel in their manifesto. Surely not, given that 90% of Network Rail steel is sourced from Scunthorpe, and that Liberty and British Steel support more than 3,500 highly-skilled jobs there—those people are dependent on the commitment that the now party of government made in their manifesto. I understand that the Government’s talks with the owners have already stalled and broken down—not the best start for the Secretary of State and the Minister. I remind hon. Members that, less than a year ago, when in opposition, the Secretary of State said that the drive for green steel must mean more jobs, not fewer, but the reality on the ground today is fewer jobs in steel in our country.

The Minister knows that Scunthorpe is now the only site in the UK with the ability to produce virgin steel. If she allows it to close on her watch, we will be left open and vulnerable to cheap imports from China, and that must not be allowed to happen. Equally, I understand that the Government are not prepared to support virgin steel manufacturing while new electric arc furnaces are being commissioned and are coming online. Is that correct? If so, how does it chime with the Secretary of State’s previous commitment that decarbonisation must not mean deindustrialisation?

With the import of coking coal due to end this month, and the possible closure of the Scunthorpe plant completely by Christmas, resulting in thousands of job losses, time is running out. The Government simply must get a grip of the situation. The loss of that vital industrial and economic asset will result in 5,000 job losses across the supply chain and the end to steel production for the first time since the start of the industrial revolution.

Given the choice in front of them, the Government must take responsibility not just for Scunthorpe but for the downstream impact on our shipbuilding industry, the defence sector and, as the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness said eloquently, the production of the wind turbines that, on the other hand, the Government are encouraging—in fact, one of their first acts was to end the ban on onshore wind. They cannot have it both ways: if they want to have their cake and eat it, they need to support the steel sector. The Government have already let Harland & Wolff down. Will they do the same with the whole of the steel sector?

The Government’s plan seems to be to divert imports of steel from China through Brazil to give the impression that this is somehow an innovative solution. I am afraid there is nothing innovative about this Labour Government’s approach. They are masking their failure to secure a future for our steelworkers and our economy as a whole, and at the same time they are risking our national security in the face of growing threats from, among others, China.

[Jessica Morden]

Will the Minister give way?

[Greg Smith]

I am not quite a Minister yet, but I will give way.

[Jessica Morden]

The shadow Minister talked about taking responsibility, but will he take responsibility for the fact that for 14 years we had no industrial strategy, no steel strategy and endless steel Ministers? Labour Members begged to have any kind of strategy for steel. Therefore, the situation that this Government inherited just a few months ago is the responsibility of the previous Government.

[Greg Smith]

I am grateful to the hon. Lady for her intervention, but as my hon. Friend the Member for Brigg and Immingham set out, the last Conservative Government took many concrete steps to support our steel sector. I gently remind Members on the Government side—there is no sugarcoating this for Members on my side—they won the election. They are responsible now and have to take decisions for the future of steel; it is no good constantly coming back and trying to do the political point scoring that we have seen time and again in the Chamber. The other side is in charge now, so they can make the decisions. If this Minister wants to stand at the Dispatch Box in a few moments and make those commitments to virgin steel, to steel production in this country, to Scunthorpe and Port Talbot, that will be welcomed by both sides of the House, because both sides of the House want the future of steel to be secured in this country.

What we are seeing on the ground right now is something different, however, because we have returned to the Labour party playbook: scrap jobs, scrap production and become reliant on higher-polluting countries for imports. That is not what I call decarbonisation, so I ask the Minister to come clean. What has gone wrong so early in this Government’s tenure? Why are she and the Secretary of State unable to fulfil their manifesto commitments? Can the Minister explain what will happen to those thousands of jobs in the steel sector across our country? We need the steel strategy now, not a promise of it for the future. Time is running out.

10:31

[The Minister for Industry (Sarah Jones)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Harris. I congratulate the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness (Richard Tice) on securing this important debate, which I am glad that we are having. Let me be clear at the outset: the new Government were elected on a mandate to invest in the UK steel industry and turn around its decline, and that is exactly what we will do.

As Members on both sides of the Chamber have echoed, the UK has always been a proud steelmaking nation; it has a rich heritage stretching back to the industrial revolution. My grandad worked in the tinplate factory fed by the steelworks of Port Talbot, and I think most of us in this place have connections, one way or another, to steel manufacturing. Yet, as has been said, steel has been a neglected industry for many years, with crude steel production declining by more than 50% in the last decade alone. Of course, that decline was brought into sharp focus when it was announced under the last Government that the blast furnaces would be closed at Port Talbot.

This Government do not believe that decline is inevitable. The decline we have seen in recent years has been due to a lack of care from previous Governments, who did the bare minimum only when it was too late. We saw the insolvency of SSI—Sahaviriya Steel Industries—steelworks in Redcar in 2015 and the insolvency of British Steel in Scunthorpe in 2019, and we saw how close Tata came to closing its UK steel operations. That pathway risked jobs and emissions being offshored for the long term and risked making us heavily dependent on steel imports for our vital infrastructure and our energy and manufacturing sectors.

This Government are taking a very different approach. This week, we launched a Green Paper on our industrial strategy. For that to have the greatest impact, we must be clear-eyed about the sectors that offer the highest growth opportunities for the economy and businesses, but steel is a foundational industry for practically every other important industry, from energy to infrastructure. We know that it is a vital component of our economy and our ambitions for growth, which is why we also need a steel strategy to determine the best steps forward to rebuild this hugely important industry.

We need to lay out long-term policies and plans to ensure that the UK steel industry is not left behind as the world decarbonises, so last month the Government announced that we will bring forward a new steel strategy next spring. I hear the House’s impatience for that strategy and I understand it: there has been a long period of decline, and we need to turn that around. Given the £2.5-billion investment that we have committed to the strategy, however, it is right that we talk to experts and to politicians around the country, particularly those who have steel in their areas.

[James McMurdock (South Basildon and East Thurrock) (Reform)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness (Richard Tice) for securing this debate. If I may, I will read a message that I received from someone I know:

“This Westminster Hall debate in infuriating. Talk is cheap!”

I highlight that because we all seem to agree how important the steel industry is. I acknowledge the past and that not all of that lies squarely on the Minister’s shoulders. I ask her to include in her response the steps that the Government will take to secure that future.

As the hon. Member for Newport East (Jessica Morden) eloquently put it, there are advantages to the more advanced technologies, but, as clearly laid out by my hon. Friend the Member for Boston and Skegness, there are practical reasons why they may not become reality—and we need to deal with reality. We all seem to accept and agree—

[Carolyn Harris (in the Chair)]

Order. May I remind Members that interventions are meant to be short and to the point?

[James McMurdock]

Apologies. We all agree that this is vital; will the Minister please lay out how it will become practical?

[Sarah Jones]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention and for reading out a message from somebody watching the debate. We all agree that it is time for action and that is exactly what the Government seek.

I will expand on our plans. The steel strategy will be developed and delivered in partnership with the steel sector and the trade unions, of course. It will work in lockstep with the Government’s industrial strategy. Our intention is to increase our UK capabilities, so that we can create a more vibrant, competitive steel sector. That will turn around the situation we inherited, where— I want to emphasise this—under-investment had resulted in dated infrastructure.

My hon. Friend the Member for Stockton North (Chris McDonald), who knows so much about the steel industry, made the point about the efficiency and economy of the new technologies, and why blast furnaces have struggled to make money for the businesses that own them in this country. British Steel’s blast furnaces were built in 1938 and 1954. Both the blast furnaces at Port Talbot were built in the 1950s. They have become incredibly unproductive because they have not been invested in. The new technologies are simply more productive. If we do not keep up with what the rest of the world is doing, we simply will not be able to compete in the market.

We inherited an industry on the brink. Nevertheless, within 10 weeks of coming into Government, we negotiated a better deal with Tata with better safeguards for workers and more money invested in their future. Our £2.5-billion fund for steel will ensure that we have a steel industry for the future. The Government’s ambition is to ramp up investment, strengthen our supply chains and create more well-paid jobs in the places they are needed.

We talk of primary steel. With the help of experts, we will review the viability of technologies for the production of primary steel, including direct reduced iron.

[Greg Smith]

The Minister just said that she will review the options. I hope this is a binary yes/no question: is there a ministerial direction in the upcoming steel strategy to include a commitment to virgin steel production in the United Kingdom?

[Sarah Jones]

I think I was fairly clear. We have been in opposition. We want to produce primary steel in this country; the previous Government got us to a point where that is almost impossible without huge investment. We are supplying £2.5 billion of investment and looking, quite rightly, at the best way to spend that to create a viable steel future for this country. We are looking at direct reduced iron as part of our steel strategy, which the previous Government did not do.

The UK’s ambition is to ramp up investment. Many hon. Members talked of the need to procure British steel in this country, and we are now in a situation where 95% of the steel procured by the UK Government for infrastructure is British, if the necessary type of steel is made in the UK. The issue is that we do not produce all the different and right types of steel, so we need to ensure that we use the Procurement Act 2023 as much as we can to drive economic growth in steel.

I disagree with the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness on whether the green agenda can drive up jobs—we think that it can. For example, the Korean company SeAH is building a factory in Teesside that will build monopiles, which are the big structures that go into the ocean and anchor wind turbines. It is currently building that structure with 30,000 tonnes of steel from British Steel. We want to get to a point where we are not only building those kinds of factories in this country but using British steel where we can to make the infrastructure.

At the moment, we do not have a factory that makes turbines on the scale that we need for floating offshore wind, but SeAH is building that factory because it has an agreement with RWE, which will be running the turbines that it builds in future. That green job development into wind and renewable energy is driving our ability to build a factory in Teesside to create hundreds of jobs to build those monopiles, and we are using British steel. That is the kind of future that we want to see through the steel strategy; we are looking at those opportunities to bring new steel companies into this country and to find ways to drive up production in this country.

I should address the issues holding us back, as they were mentioned in the debate. China and excess capacity is a huge issue that we should not underplay. China is now the biggest steel producer in the world and its unfair subsidies have led to massive steel over-production, which fuels global overcapacity and drives down prices. That is a global issue with local consequences that makes profitable steel production here in the UK much harder. That key global situation is helping to shape our future steel strategy and we will need to tackle that problem through things like the carbon border adjustment mechanism—CBAM—and ensure that we are working with a level playing field.

Energy prices were mentioned by many Members, and for too long British energy-intensive industries, including the steel sector, have been held back by high electricity costs. Again, I disagree with the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness: electricity prices are set by global gas prices and the problem is our dependence on fossil fuels, as well as the fact that we did not mitigate for that situation in this country at all. When all the prices shot up with the war in Ukraine, we were in a worse position than many countries around the world.

The British industry supercharger that the previous Government developed, which the hon. Member for Brigg and Immingham (Martin Vickers) mentioned, will bring down electricity costs for the UK’s most energy intensive industries, but we know that we need to go further. It brings down only 60% of costs and there is still a disparity. We believe that, in an unstable world, cheap home-grown green energy is the future. That is what will drive down prices, reduce our exposure to the volatile fossil fuel market, protect bill payers and strengthen our energy independence. Fundamentally, that is what will bring down costs in the long term.

Members also mentioned the challenges of decarbonisation. Tata and British Steel’s plans to invest in electric arc furnaces are driven by market conditions and the desire to reduce their carbon footprint—customers want greener steel. The UK is going to have a CBAM. If we were producing steel in the UK with blast furnaces, we would be massively inhibited because the EU is bringing in a CBAM, so the cost of exporting to the EU would be much higher. We have to deal with the world as we find it, which again is where we disagree with the hon. Member for Boston and Skegness. We cannot look back and try to re-create the past; we have to deal with the world as we find it, which means that we have to move towards those more efficient and greener energies.

The EU, where 78% of our steel exports went in 2023—that is worth pointing out—will bring in its carbon border adjustment mechanism in 2027. We rely on exporting a lot of the steel we produce to the EU, and we would be at a massive disadvantage were we to carry on producing steel from blast furnaces. We have committed to a UK carbon border adjustment mechanism, which will give UK businesses the confidence that, when they invest in decarbonisation and electrification, they will not be at a disadvantage. That is important.

On other issues mentioned by hon. Members, I should touch on Scunthorpe, because that is at the forefront of everyone’s mind. No one wants to see any job losses, and everyone wants to see the steel industry thrive. Through our strategy, that is what we want to do. For commercially confidential reasons, which I am sure hon. Members understand, I cannot talk about our conversations with the owners, but I reassure Members that we are having conversations all the time and that we are working unbelievably hard to get a solution for Scunthorpe and to give the certainty that the hon. Member for Brigg and Immingham talked about. I completely understand the issue with the instability of the current situation, but all I can say to him is that we are doing all we can to work with the company on what the future will be.

[Martin Vickers]

The Minister and I share a desire to see a thriving steel industry. On a couple of occasions in her reply, she mentioned wanting to halt its decline, as well as the production of the steel strategy in the spring. Can she give any sort of assurance that there will be no job losses at Scunthorpe until the strategy is produced? Then we can then work together to plan the way forward.

[Sarah Jones]

The hon. Gentleman will understand that I am not in a position to define what commercial companies do. While we are trying to do what we can, I cannot do anything other than say that we are working incredibly hard with the owners to ensure that we get to a point that we want to get to.

The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) mentioned Harland and Wolff, and the same situation is true there. We are working hard to understand the situation and we are hoping for a resolution relatively soon.

[Jim Shannon]

Will the Minister be generous and kind enough to let us know about the situation now and what she hopes progress will be over the next few weeks, if she does not mind?

[Sarah Jones]

The process of selling the company is going through. That is a market situation, being dealt with in that way, so Government are not providing funding or anything such as that at this point. We are allowing the process to take its course, but we are obviously talking to all parties to do what we can to ensure that we get the right outcome. I have been talking to politicians from all four of the Harland and Wolff sites, as can be imagined, and there is uncertainty in each of those areas, whether that is in Scotland, Devon or Belfast. We are working hard to ensure the right outcome.

To close my remarks, in steel, not to mention the wider economy, the inheritance of this Government from the previous Government was nothing short of a travesty. We had more than a decade of lurching from crisis to crisis, with no clear plan to safeguard the future of a competitive domestic steel industry. This Government are determined to change that, making the steel industry in this country fit for the future so that it is not left behind in a decarbonised world.

The Government are on the side of Britain’s thousands of steelworkers. We have not talked about the other parts of the country where we also have steel production. Marcegaglia, which is in Sheffield, announced a couple of weeks ago that it is investing £50 million in a new electric arc furnace in Sheffield, so we have incumbents here in the UK that are doing well.

The Government are determined to ensure the future of British steel. We are on the side of Britain’s thousands of steelworkers and we are working closely with our trade unions, experts and others to develop our steel strategy. We believe that steel will forge our future, not just our past, and I look forward to working with all hon. Members in this place to develop a steel strategy that sets us up for the next 10, 15 or 20 years to come.

10:50

[Richard Tice]

I am grateful, Mrs Harris, for the opportunity to wind up the debate. I thank all the hon. Members who have made contributions to the debate, and I thank the Minister for her closing remarks.

It seems to me that there is a sense of unity about the ambition—we have to protect our critically important steel industry in the United Kingdom. The Government are probably correct that they have been handed a bit of a hospital pass on this vital issue. They understand that. However, the truth is that I am an impatient guy, so I will not resile from asking the Minister and the Department to move at incredible pace to secure the industry and the jobs, and—as the hon. Member for Brigg and Immingham (Martin Vickers) said—to reduce the uncertainty.

This debate has enabled all of us to highlight the risks ahead. We cannot be here in a year’s time hearing that Jingye has said, “It can’t be done, we’ve got to shut the blast furnace, it’s going to shut”, and the Government are not ready for that. I think that is what this debate has done; it has highlighted the serious risks out there. I understand that the Minister cannot share the details of commercial conversations that are clearly going on, but that is what we must be prepared for. I have asked for a commitment, and I believe that the best way to secure that commitment in Scunthorpe is to have some form of commercial stake.

Where I think we differ is that there is a confidence within the Government—the hon. Member for Stockton North (Chris McDonald) referred to this specifically—that the electric arc furnaces will be attractive and commercially viable for Tata and Jingye. However, there is a serious risk that that will not be the case. Electric arc furnaces are much more viable in the United States because, as the hon. Member referred to, the electricity price in the US is between a quarter and a third of ours. The reason for that is completely the opposite of what the Minister said. It is because the US has cheap gas—its own gas, which is shale gas—that allows it to produce cheap electricity.

We have identified the risks and we share many of the same ambitions. We differ on certain issues, but it is absolutely critical that the Government lose no time at all and push forward hard. I am encouraged by the ambition to increase capability and the ambition to ramp up investment, but we have to understand something. I do not see how we can get more investment if we cannot get electricity prices down. That is the critical objective and the Government have that responsibility.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the steel industry.

National Highways Maintenance and the A5036

Wednesday 16th October 2024 Westminster Hall

10:59

[Carolyn Harris (in the Chair)]

I will call Peter Dowd to move the motion and the Minister to respond. There will not be an opportunity for the Member in charge to wind up, as is the convention for 30-minute debates.

[Peter Dowd (Bootle) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered National Highways maintenance and management of the A5036.

May I say what an absolute pleasure it is to see you in the Chair, Mrs Harris? It is also a pleasure to see the Minister in his chair, although not as much of a pleasure as it is to see Mrs Harris in the Chair.

I will set out some context to the issue of National Highways’ maintenance and management of the A5036. The A5036 is the main road from the M57 and M58 down to Liverpool port—in effect, the port access road—and is, I think, the only A road in the whole Merseyside city region that is managed by National Highways. There may be smaller ones in the Wirral or south Wirral, but for all intents and purposes it is the only major A road that National Highways manages in Merseyside city region, as I understand it. The road has about 40,000 traffic movements a day, or thereabouts, which is about 1,600 an hour; hon. Members can imagine that that is huge amount of traffic at peak times. The road is about 4 miles long, from the M58, down the A580, through to the docks.

I can also provide a bit more context as to why I am raising this matter. Some months ago, I had to raise with Mr Speaker a point of order in relation to what I saw as the inappropriate behaviour of the north-west office of National Highways. That revolved around a freedom of information request that a local group, the Rimrose Valley Friends, submitted to the office. When we got the information, some of the comments were completely inappropriate. They more or less said, “We best not tell the Member of Parliament”—that is, me—“about certain issues, because he will go off and rile up his constituents.” That is what they said, and that is the tone and culture of that organisation. I raised that with Mr Speaker, and the then Minister came to speak to me about it. That has set the tone for attempts to engage with National Highways in my constituency.

The bottom line is this: I do not underestimate the challenges of keeping a road of this nature, which is about 4 miles long, in some sort of shape in collaboration with the local authority. However, it is not a motorway; it is a road that goes from the M58 and M57 through residential areas. The residents expect that National Highways, in collaboration with whatever its partners are, will keep that road in some sort of order. I know that the local authority has had challenges working with National Highways on the matter, whether in relation to litter, detritus on the road or weeds. It appears that National Highways’ view is that the weeds do not affect the safety of the road—that, although the weeds are everywhere, they are not six feet high. National Highways seems to take the view that that does not matter, and it does not take into account the environment that people have to live in.

It is clear that the people along the road and in the area are put out, to say the least, by National Highways’ attitude to the matter. National Highways has an insouciant attitude: it does not think it is accountable to anybody, and it feels able to make the comments that it made about me in documentation. That sets the tone—I think I have said that three or four times—and consequently trying to engage with it is very difficult.

I will tell hon. Members another anecdote. There is a footbridge at Park Lane West that has been there for about 50 years. It links two communities, which include a church and a school; most children from one side of that major road have to go to the other. There were plans to rebuild it—National Highways bought land to build it up to modern standards—but there was delay after delay, and after a lorry collision it was decided that the bridge would be taken down. That gave National Highways the opportunity, as part of its maintenance programme, not to go ahead with building the new bridge.

National Highways said that the figures had gone up, although it is difficult to find out precisely by how much because of its secrecy and lack of candour. I said, “Look, if it’s outside the parameters of the particular cost set for the bridge, you may wish to go and ask the Department for exemption.” There is always the opportunity to use discretion in such situations. If National Highways was not able to use its discretion, perhaps the Department or the Minister could do so.

The situation rolled on and on, and about four weeks ago I asked the people at National Highways whether they had bothered to ask the Minister. They said, “No. We haven’t bothered to ask the Minister because we don’t want the bridge.” That was not the question they were asked. They were asked, “Could you go off and ask the Minister, the Department or whoever else for this dispensation?” That is the culture. They decided—as it said in the document—that a footbridge is a 20th-century solution. Try telling that to all those children who are frightened to death to walk across the road, even with their parents. Try telling that to older people. It is a massively busy junction. It seems that the focus is just on getting traffic along the road without taking appropriate account of the public and pedestrians. Of course, I have been told, “Oh well, we’re going to have a new pedestrian approach to this crossing.”

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Gentleman for bringing this issue forward. His passion and concern for his constituents is admirable. What is frustrating to me is National Highways’ response to his eloquent and sensible suggestions. The key issue, which he underlined, is the safety of the children. If a bridge that is important for the movement of children from one side of the road to the other is removed and not replaced, the safety issue is even more paramount. In the hon. Gentleman’s discussions with National Highways and the Minister, has a solution been proposed? There has to be a way.

[Peter Dowd]

I appreciate the hon. Gentleman’s intervention, and I am trying to find the way forward. That bridge is a reflection of National Highways’ whole approach to things: we are an encumbrance on the stuff it has to do.

With some other people, including my hon. Friend the Member for Sefton Central (Bill Esterson), I met one of the previous transport Ministers, Baroness Vere, because National Highways refused to give certain information after a freedom of information request, and she had to say to its representatives, “Give them the information.” That is the context in which we are operating. I do not want to get too technical, but it is important that National Highways provides data and shares information to show us what it is doing, and why it is or is not doing certain things. It is, in effect, a company with a budget of £1.34 billion in resource and about £3.5 billion in capital. Why it cannot use some of that to replace a bridge that has been there for 50 years is beyond me, but that is a different point.

Litter is of concern. That has been identified in the report from the regulator, the Office of Rail and Road, which I had to speak to about the situation, and it investigated National Highways. Surprise, surprise—although it was not a surprise in the least to me—the document it produced, the “ORR investigation into National Highways’ compliance with its licence and delivery of the second road investment strategy”, talks about:

“National Highways apparent concerns about sharing data and information restricts its ability to show how it is performing its function and results in more work for the company and for ORR.”

That quote sums up the situation. Of course, the Office of Rail and Road had to highlight that point to National Highways. The document goes on to say:

“National Highways has not been able to demonstrate consistently and reasonably, with evidence, the basis upon which it has taken decisions and the consequences of doing so on users”

—that is, my constituents—

“and network performance…During the investigation we identified instances where the company held material that it could, and should, have shared with ORR sooner, or where it told us it did not hold data or information that we needed to effectively carry out our statutory functions (and that we consider that the company should reasonably have held in order to carry out its own statutory functions)…National Highways provided around 300 pieces of information…While we would not have expected to see all this information as part of our business as usual or enhanced monitoring, there was enough across six areas of concern to indicate that there is more information that the company could and should share with us.”

That, from the independent Office of Rail and Road, again sums up the attitude of National Highways. In the grand scheme of things, how can any of us at a local level try to find that information, when even the Office of Rail and Road cannot get the information that it needs? As I indicated before, a Minister had to tell National Highways to give us the information. When we do find out the information it provides, it is absolutely outrageous, to the point that a Member of Parliament— that is, me—has to go off and raise the matter with a Minister.

That is the context. It is very difficult to engage with National Highways. There is an absolute lack of candour, a complete lack of respect for elected Members, a lack of respect for the local authority, but most important of all, a lack of respect for my constituents who have to live along that road, which is already challenging for them. I ask the Minister to take those issues into account when he responds, because this matter is not going to go away; this debate is not the end of it. The sooner National Highways understands that and tries to engage with me, with local residents and with the local authority—the partners and the users—the better.

I will finish on that point, but I reaffirm that this matter is not going away. I will be holding National Highways to account in every way I can to ensure that my constituents get the fair deal that they are entitled to.

11:08

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Simon Lightwood)]

It is a pleasure to respond to my hon. Friend the Member for Bootle (Peter Dowd)—although I agree with him: it is more of a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mrs Harris.

Good transport connections are key to unlocking essential growth for cities, which is why I thank my hon. Friend for calling this debate. I note that this is the third debate that he has secured on the subject of the A5036; he is indeed a strong advocate for his constituents and for road users, campaigning extensively on the proposed improvements to this vital road in his constituency.

Transport links play a crucial role in supporting productivity, innovation and economic growth in cities, towns and communities. That is why the Government are determined to build a transport infrastructure to drive economic growth and opportunity in every part of the country and deliver value for money for taxpayers.

Our strategic road network is the backbone of our country’s economy: with 4,500 miles of motorways and major A roads, it connects people, builds communities, creates opportunities and helps the UK to thrive. Although it makes up only 2.4% of England’s overall road network, it is the most heavily used part, and carries a third of all traffic and two thirds of all freight. Transport is at the heart of this mission-driven Government. We will transform infrastructure to work for the whole country—to unlock growth, promote social mobility and tackle regional inequality.

The A5036 performs a number of important functions. It serves its local community as a commuter route, acts as a link for trips to and from Bootle, Maghull and Liverpool city centre and forms part of the strategic road network providing national routes to and from the port of Liverpool. My hon. Friend will be aware of the previous Government’s commitments to improve the A5036 Princess Way, and I know that he has long campaigned against the scheme, but he will also be aware that the Secretary of State has commissioned an internal review that will look at the Department’s capital projects. That review will consider the Department’s capital portfolio spending, including on road projects such as the A5036 Princess Way, and will include and inform the Department’s new long-term strategy for transport, developing a modern and integrated network with people at its heart and ensuring that transport infrastructure can be delivered efficiently and on time. He will appreciate that we are not yet able to provide assurances on any individual project at this time, but we will provide any updates once that review has concluded.

My hon. Friend raised an important point about finding a multi-modal solution that includes rail. I am aware of the commitment to find a multi-modal solution to port access and wish to acknowledge the work of the port access steering group, chaired by the Liverpool city region mayoral combined authority. He will be aware that the Liverpool city region mayoral combined authority is also consulting on its fourth draft of the local transport plan, which will include a strategy for freight and logistics. National Highways supported the city region to develop that plan, and the Department awaits its adoption with interest.

Turning to the issue of Park Lane footbridge, as my hon. Friend will be aware, the bridge was struck by a heavy goods vehicle in October 2022 and National Highways has since installed a temporary signal-controlled crossing for cyclists and pedestrians. National Highways has undertaken a review of possible solutions and determined, as he said, that a permanent signal-controlled crossing at all arms of the junction is the best solution. In considering that option, National Highways considered the need to provide safer journeys for everyone, including those with mobility issues, cyclists, and parents with pushchairs. I have heard my hon. Friend’s message on information sharing and candour loud and clear, and will of course discuss the issue with the Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood), who is the Minister for the future of roads.

National Highways is working with Sefton council and Active Travel England to develop the scheme, which will align with other schemes, including the nearby maritime corridor active travel scheme. National Highways expects to start work on the crossing in the next financial year. This is partly due to the need to co-ordinate roadworks at Park Lane and the Atlantic gateway maritime corridor, together with safety improvements at Switch Island, along with pavement resurfacing work, which is planned for delivery in the first half of 2025-26.

[Peter Dowd]

I heard what the Minister said in relation to the footbridge—another matter that I will take up. There was massive, major consultation on the replacement of the footbridge, and for some reason National Highways chose to ditch that plan without discussing it with anybody at all. That is the concern our concern. Nobody knows why. Nobody knows what the information was based on. That is where we are at. I would ask National Highways to hold on until we can pursue this further, because what it did is absolutely outrageous.

[Simon Lightwood]

As I say, I will take that back and discuss that further with the Minister for Future of Roads. I agree that maintenance of the strategic road network is of the utmost importance. The National Highways maintenance regime is guided by the standards contained in the design manual for roads and bridges. It has a programme of maintenance activities for the A5036 planned for this year, which I can assure my hon. Friend is mostly completed now. Outstanding works on the grass and vegetation will be completed by the end of this financial year.

My hon. Friend will also be pleased to know that National Highways is currently delivering a scheme to improve safety at Switch Island. This includes average speed cameras on the M57 approach and red light enforcement at some of the traffic signals on the junction. Those vital safety improvements will be completed by the end of this financial year.

I thank my hon. Friend once again not only for securing this debate and for the important points he raises—I will raise the issues of candour and information flow with the Minister for roads—but for his continued commitment to champion the needs of his constituents. I hope he is satisfied by the response I have provided, which has made it clear that the Department recognises the vital importance of good transport links for cities, regions and the whole United Kingdom.

Question put and agreed to.

11:15

Sitting suspended.

City and Town Centres: Regeneration

Wednesday 16th October 2024 Westminster Hall

[Martin Vickers in the Chair]

14:30

[Catherine Atkinson (Derby North) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the regeneration of city and town centres.

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Vickers. In less than one month, our city and town centres should be at their best. On Remembrance Sunday, they will be full as we gather at the war memorials that are, rightly, the focal points of our public spaces. As we look around and hear the “Last Post” and the “Reveille”, we will feel an intense pride in the people we are with, our history and our home.

We want our city and town centres to instil in us that same sense of pride. But in too many of them, the backdrop will include empty shops and units. Remembrance Sunday is a time when our town and city centres will be full of people, but, for too many, the footfall on most days is far lower than needed to support local businesses and venues.

In Derby, we are proud of our city—of what we make, of our history and of our creativity. We want our city centre to reflect that. We must have public spaces in every town and city that people can feel proud of and safe in, and want to come to—not just on Remembrance Sunday but the following day, and every day. I am hugely optimistic about creating centres that are fit for the future. It is wonderful that so many Members are here today, demonstrating that the political will is there.

It is fantastic to be able to open today’s debate on city and town centres because without a great centre, there can be no great city or town. The centre can often set the character and personality of the rest of the town or city. Seven in 10 of us judge the vitality of an area, as a whole, on the high street alone. An attractive centre means that we are more likely to visit and spend time, invest or start a business, work or study, or permanently move to the area—all essential to that elusive agglomeration effect that drives economic growth, attracting talented people and providing a space for them to share knowledge.

That is what we are doing with major regeneration schemes in Derby. I have pledged my support for Becketwell, with a 3,500-capacity performance venue and a transformed market hall for stallholders due to open next year. Last week, work started on the redevelopment of the Friar Gate goods yard after 50 years of the building lying vacant. The University of Derby is also building a new business school, while Derby is this year’s No. 1 city for new graduates, with an average graduate salary of more than £40,000—the second-highest outside London, according to recruitment experts Talos360.

For those reasons, Derby is attracting a lot of inward investment. I pay tribute to the leadership of the council leader, Nadine Peatfield—and, before that, of my hon. Friend the Member for Derby South (Baggy Shanker)—in driving regeneration forward. I also thank the Minister for listening to the case that we made for the restoration of the historic Guildhall theatre and the redevelopment of Derby theatre, and for the £20 million that we now have to take that forward. It is exciting to be part of transforming the city centre with Marketing Derby and the business investment district: our city centre businesses pulling together.

The Centre for Cities reminds us that

“successful city centres are the most productive parts of the UK economy”

and of the role of national Government in accelerating planning reforms, facilitating substantial public investment to kick-start projects and focusing regeneration schemes on our centres. But no matter what new buildings and infrastructure we are able to build locally, it is the foundations that the Government will lay that I want to turn to. The flagship five-point plan to rejuvenate high streets is fundamental, but, as broad as that is, the issues go wider—into culture, transport, devolution, housing, small-business support and beyond. In essence, there needs to be a whole-Government approach, and that is what I want to turn to.

[Mr Angus MacDonald (Inverness, Skye and West Ross-shire) (LD)]

Will the hon. Lady give her opinion on business improvement districts? Does she think they are valuable for rejuvenating the economies of market towns and small cities across Britain?

[Catherine Atkinson]

The bids we have seen in Derby have been really useful. Partnerships for Better Business, which supports business improvement districts, has made suggestions on empty shops, which I want to come on to.

The whole-Government approach should first include tackling crime and antisocial behaviour to take back our streets, as the Home Secretary says, and take back our town and city centres. When high streets feel unsafe, consumers choose other shopping options—that is how the Association of Convenience Stores puts it. So we need the patrols, the neighbourhood policing and the respect orders to ban persistent offenders from town centres, the removal of the previous Government’s £200 prosecution threshold, and a new, specific offence for assaults on shop workers. I pay tribute to the work of the Union of Shop, Distributive and Allied Workers and Co-op for their campaigns on that. There is also hope from technology: companies such as Derby’s Barron McCann are using artificial intelligence and biometrics analysis to support retailers to detect and prevent theft.

Secondly, we need support for businesses. That includes reforming business rates to level the playing field between the high street and online giants, tackling late payments, better incentivising investment and supporting entrepreneurship. We have amazing businesses, such as Mr Shaw’s House on Sadler Gate in the cathedral quarter, and we want to see them thrive.

Thirdly, we need support for arts and culture. While Derby’s redevelopment plans are in motion, we need to sustain the amazing offer we already have, such as our museums, including the Museum of Making housed in the UNESCO-inscribed Derby silk mill, the cultural hub of the Quad, Artcore and many others. The work they do is so important for our city, but they need support so that they are ready to take full advantage of the increased footfall that we will see.

Fourthly, we need better public transport links, particularly from new housing developments to our centres. Cycling UK have great examples of where cycling lanes and pedestrian-friendly streets have revitalised parts of city centres. Finally, we need an agile approach to the city centre space to support a mix of retail, public services, independent small businesses, entertainment, housing and more green and family-friendly spaces. I hope hon. Members will provide many other examples of the policies that are mission-critical to local city and town centres.

[Jo Platt (Leigh and Atherton) (Lab/Co-op)]

My hon. Friend is making some excellent points on regeneration for towns and cities. The high streets of Leigh, Atherton, Golborne and Tyldesley in my constituency are huge assets to our local communities. However, as my hon. Friend has explained, we have all witnessed the decline over the last few years. Does she agree with giving local authorities powers to better hold absent property owners to account, to bring decaying properties back into use? Does she also agree that co-operative models, such as local ownership, are another solution that will significantly benefit our economy?

[Catherine Atkinson]

My hon. Friend is a great friend to her local high street businesses. The Government have made a commitment on the community right to buy, and the Co-op party makes a strong case for devolved community ownership funds. I thank my hon. Friend for her intervention.

I turn to the scourge of vacant properties, which we need a particular focus on. Derbyshire Live estimated in May that more than 80 shops in Derby city centre were currently up for sale or to let—an increase of about 60% on two years previously, when it carried out the same survey of the major shopping streets. In the last few months, we have seen green shoots, with about 30 new businesses opening in Derby city centre and I have high hopes for the effect of the regeneration we have planned. We have some stunning architecture, but unused buildings fall into rack and ruin. Empty units are such a blight on town and city centres that I want to call today for a specific Government strategy on vacant shops.

[Mr Jonathan Brash (Hartlepool) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend is making an excellent case for our high streets. In Hartlepool derelict commercial properties are a similar problem. Just in the last few days the old Odeon building in Hartlepool was the victim of arson and is being demolished as I speak. Do we not need to give far greater powers to local authorities, as has already been mentioned, particularly around compulsory purchase, to get these buildings out of the hands of private developers who, frankly, are not interested in the pride and community of our high streets that we are arguing for today?

[Catherine Atkinson]

That is certainly one option that we must explore. I know that my hon. Friend has been a strong advocate for investment in Hartlepool.

Fairly or unfairly, many people will judge how well the economy does on whether the number of empty shops in their local town or city centre noticeably rises or falls.

[Louise Jones (North East Derbyshire) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend has spoken about the negative impact that empty shops have; I welcome her calls for a strategy. Does she agree that any strategy must take into account the importance of public transport so that those who wish to make use of our high streets have access to transport that is regular, reliable and affordable?

[Catherine Atkinson]

I agree with my hon. Friend, whose constituency includes five towns; I can understand why public transport is important to ensure their success and that they thrive.

We need a number of options and a new relationship with the owners of empty properties. They must understand that if they invest in our centre, they have a special public responsibility. An avoidable eyesore is not acceptable for any period of time. When there is a vacancy, there should be immediate work to ensure that the street scene remains attractive, with advertising displays or local art commissions in the windows of local vacant units. There should be a presumption of meanwhile use or pop-ups. I commend Carley Foster, professor of services marketing at the University of Derby, for her work on pop-up retail.

A number of possible solutions should be looked at. As has already been mentioned, community ownership will play a key role. The Government’s community right to buy will help local people acquire valued community spaces if they come up for sale, with support and financing help for community ownership to ensure that communities can use the powers that they will have. The organisation Power to Change suggests a civic high streets accelerator to do that. Another way to get occupancy up would be high street rental auctions. I understand we would need only secondary legislation, so I would be grateful for an update from the Minister on the timing of that and an assurance that the auctions would include protections for vacant pubs so that they are not lost.

Partnerships for Better Business Ltd, which supports the business improvement districts, suggests that a penalty could be applied to vacant properties similar to that available to vacant residential property. We should also look at compulsory purchase orders when owners or property agencies completely and entirely fail to engage. On the other hand, there must be a real celebration and appreciation of the owners who do the right thing and keep occupation rates high and our city centres looking at their best.

In conclusion, I am so grateful for having been granted this debate to speak about my pride in our heritage, small businesses and plans for regeneration in Derby, and for that opportunity to be granted to other hon. Members here today. I hope the Minister can update us on the Government’s progress on the five-point plan to support small businesses on our high streets.

I have called today for a specific strategy on vacant shops and for cross-Government co-ordination of efforts to regenerate our town and city centres so that when it comes to future Remembrance Sundays, we look around not just with absolute pride in the people but in every aspect of the built environment. We want to see city and town centres fit for heroes—yes, those remembered in the war memorials, but also the everyday heroes: our constituents, who work day in, day out for their families and communities. They deserve nothing less.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Martin Vickers (in the Chair)]

Order. I remind Members that they should bob if they wish to be called. It is highly unlikely that we will fit everyone in, as we have a long list of speakers. I will impose a time limit if necessary, but initially I ask Members to limit themselves to three minutes. Even then, I fear that people near the bottom of the list will probably not be called. Please help by keeping interventions to a minimum.

14:45

[Bradley Thomas (Bromsgrove) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Vickers. I thank the hon. Member for Derby North (Catherine Atkinson) for securing this debate.

Regardless of politics, so many of us have seen how town centres have changed over probably a couple of decades. It is pertinent to acknowledge the factors that have contributed to that for so long; the rise of the internet is a predominant one. When I am out and about in my constituency, people often ask me what we are going to do about high streets. I always think that there is an onus on us to do a little more. If each household in my constituency spent an extra £5 per week in the local economy, it would keep about £12 million a year in it and our high streets would benefit.

I agree with a reasonable amount of what has been said. I, too, am hugely optimistic for the future of our town centres. They are the most visible barometer of the vitality and vibrancy of the places we represent. It is critical that we look at the issue through two lenses: the national piece and the local factors. Nationally, we are in need of business rates reform. The business rates system has not been updated to keep pace with changing retail habits and the business environment that we seek to create, with a new culture of investment that will catalyse our town centres and other places.

I will not dwell on business rates reform, because I want to make a few other points. The first is about what can be encouraged at a local level. I am keen to see local councils taking a much more active role in championing their towns and communities as destinations for investment. I say this not through the lens of the planning system, but from the perspective of discovering the vision and potential of the place. What is the quality of the built environment? Which natural, cultural and heritage assets are the hooks to attract high-quality investment from large corporates, from institutional investors or even from local entrepreneurs who want to create a sense of vitality in their area while creating a living for themselves?

I call on the Government to encourage and support as many councils as possible in the creation of local investment prospectuses that will drive unique investment to capture and catalyse the potential of each of our places. Hanging off that is the role of urban design. Since many years before my election to Parliament, I have spoken about design. Those who know me well will probably be sick of hearing me talk about it, but it is fundamental.

The hon. Member for Derby North talked about the quality of the built environment. We have to shift our mindset away from good design being seen as a cost, and see it instead as an investment on which we get so many returns, both tangible and intangible. It is about how we can design out crime, design in health and wellbeing and inspire a sense of pride in a place where people do not just want to live. Hanging from that is a catalysed sense of economic renewal.

Skills are also fundamental. If we get this right, focus on our town centres, join the dots with the wider economic renewal of our constituencies, and focus on a long-term industrial strategy and skills agenda, we can really make a difference. I call on the Government to focus on how we can empower local councils, on a long-term industrial strategy for the UK, and particularly on the roles that skills development can play in catalysing our areas.

14:49

[Mr James Frith (Bury North) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to speak under your chairmanship, Mr Vickers. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Catherine Atkinson) on securing such an important debate for those of us who are a bit geeky on towns.

It is always nice to stand up in the presence of my good friend the Minister. This is the first time that I am in a position to address him as the Minister in a formal capacity, so let me congratulate him in the hope that it bumps me up the line for community ownership funding as we await the difficult decisions that the Labour Government have to take. First and foremost, I ask that bids that are already in do not fall victim to the general election, that there is no fancy footwork and that we can be assured that the funding bids that made the cut under a previous Administration will now receive funding and authority.

I am delighted to be back as the Member of Parliament for Bury North. My constituency has three key towns: Tottington, Ramsbottom and Bury itself. This debate is also about cities, but I want to remark specifically on the role of towns, which are often in the shadow of our greatest English cities, of which Manchester is the nearest to Bury. The plight of our football club shows that community assets are often diminished by policy or decisions taken about us without us. Towns feel ignored when decisions on cultural assets, social capital and economic capital that affect us are taken elsewhere.

People in Bury want a degree of self-determination. We have an innovative council that has been trying for well over 10 years to do as much as possible with a diminishing amount of money. Austerity continues, whether that is in the special educational needs crisis, in investment in our road networks or in whether we can afford to cut the weeds and make places look nice enough to visit. It is about the simple things, alongside bigger fixed items such as funding, having a plan and bringing the buses back into public ownership, as our friend Andy Burnham, the Greater Manchester Mayor, has done so effectively. It is also about taking the last Conservative Government’s levelling-up analysis, which was accurate, and saying, “They were right with the analysis, but they forgot to do the impact assessment. They forgot to do the impact, full stop.”

It is not enough to point at projects that may or may not be funded and pit one local authority area or town against another in the “Hunger Games” style of funding that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport has described. I ask the Minister for an assurance that the three-year pact with local authorities and the funding that we are due to get for our towns will both be clear as soon as possible after the Budget. I also ask that while waiting for the three-year pact, we do not drop the ball on what is required right now. Despite the financial inheritance of a £22 billion black hole, this Labour Government are saying, “We will not let the mess we have inherited determine every single decision we make about towns and cities and their redevelopment.” Self-determination is hugely important.

My final comment is about the assets that we enjoy in Bury, from Broad Street Social—I think I am allowed to mention my favourite bar and my good friend Jen Smith, who helped me to prepare my remarks—to Wax and Beans, which is a great independent record shop, Bloom, which is a terrific eatery and coffee shop, and a wine shop called Kwoff; the House is getting a bit of a sense of where I spend my time. Crucially, people need that time off work, whether it is through flexible working or through a rebalancing of expectations post-covid with their employer, to get out and spend their hard-earned money in the towns that we all want to see thriving. I welcome this debate, in which there is still plenty more to say, and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North once again.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Martin Vickers (in the Chair)]

Order. Our first two Back-Bench speeches have been slightly over the three-minute mark, but Rachel Hopkins will now demonstrate how to keep to time.

14:54

[Rachel Hopkins (Luton South and South Bedfordshire) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to see you in the Chair, Mr Vickers —challenge duly accepted.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Catherine Atkinson) on securing this debate and on her brilliant opening speech. Hon. Members have talked about the town and city centres at the heart of our local communities. Unfortunately, under the previous Government, they were overlooked, underfunded and undervalued for too long. That has manifested itself in empty retail spaces, boarded-up shops and the loss of banks and local independent businesses in our communities.

The British Retail Consortium has found that 6,000 shops have been lost in the past five years. In many cases, overhead costs such as business rates had a material impact on the decision to close, so I welcome Labour’s plans to tackle the issue head on and reform the business rates system, levelling the playing field between the high street and the online giants, better incentivising local investment, tackling empty properties and supporting entrepreneurship.

Supporting our small businesses in Luton South and South Bedfordshire is of great personal interest to me. I have just launched my fourth annual small business awards, for which residents can nominate their favourite local business so we can support and promote business owners across the constituency. Small businesses are the backbone of our communities and deserve to be celebrated.

We must not underestimate the role of our local authorities in the regeneration in our towns and cities and the creation of place. The Local Government Association, of which I am proud to be a vice-president, has emphasised the importance of local councils in leading projects in partnership with residents, local businesses and other anchor institutions. They are best qualified to identify what their community needs. The LGA has also highlighted the need for councils to have access to one pot of long-term funding, alongside the resources and flexibility from central Government to work with local partners. That will allow councils to invest in local infrastructure and support local growth in a way that recognises the unique challenges and opportunities facing each place.

I am glad that our Labour Government recognise the vital role that local authorities play and are committed to ensuring that they have the tools they need to effectively develop and implement plans to support their high streets. We are seeing evidence of that regeneration in Luton: significant work is already under way to stimulate economic growth within the town centre, including the development of The Stage, a multi-purpose facility in Bute Street, under the levelling-up fund.

It would be remiss of me to highlight the brilliant regeneration going on in Luton without mentioning our fantastic football club, Luton Town. I was lucky enough to watch the wonderful match at Wembley in May last year when we gained promotion; ever the optimist, I hope to see us back there. Our Premier League promotion meant that people from all over the country came to Luton to see exactly what we are about. We are a beautifully diverse town with a thriving cultural scene and a sense of community. The redevelopment of the Power Court area, including the relocation of Luton Town’s stadium, is a defining milestone in this mission. The plans for a larger-capacity football stadium, as well as retail space, a hotel and a music venue, mark a regenerative era for the town and represent the increasing ambitions that Luton holds for its football team.

With exciting regeneration plans under way in Luton, an accessible station and a connected local transport network have never been more necessary. I will continue to campaign for an access-for-all lift at Luton station and a complete regeneration of the station itself—but that is a debate for another time.

I am glad to say that the regeneration and improved sustainability of our town and city centres, which were once an afterthought, are now a primary focus for our new Government as we work to deliver economic growth and raise living standards across the country.

[Martin Vickers (in the Chair)]

That speech lasted for four minutes, so we are getting better. Jim Shannon will take only three.

14:58

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I will certainly endeavour to do so, Mr Vickers. I thank the hon. Member for Derby North (Catherine Atkinson) for setting the scene so very well and for giving us all an opportunity to participate.

As ever, I will give a Northern Ireland perspective. I have three towns in my constituency: Newtownards, Comber and Ballynahinch. The main town, Newtownards, is thriving. It is bucking the trend of high streets across the UK, but its success is because of the independent traders and retailers who work in their own small shops and are part of the local community. From Sheldon Galleries, which produces artwork of local and international renown, to independent clothing boutiques and shoe shops, the town centre has fought hard to remain relevant, although it is not immune from empty spaces and old shutters.

What is the secret? One of the secrets is having vibrant chambers of trade. We are pleased to have one in Newtownards, one in Comber and one in Ballynahinch. Despite their hard work, people in local chambers of trade, such as Derek Wright in Newtownards, cannot save the high street alone. Their contributions and partnerships are important, but they are not the only thing. Government help must play a part.

I welcome the Minister to his place. I am pleased to see him here; we have had many debates in Westminster Hall on different subjects, and I am looking forward to his response. I am ever mindful that he is not responsible for Northern Ireland, but I want to set the scene and raise some issues relevant to the debate. The chambers of trade need Government investment, because we have a circular economy: those local shopkeepers will use that money to buy locally and, importantly, spend locally.

After years of trading—100 years, in some cases—our shops have adapted to the times. We have family businesses, clothes shops, antique shops and coffee shops; the coffee culture in Newtownards brings people to the town centre. There are also restaurants and pubs; the hon. Member for Bury North (Mr Frith) referred to pubs, which are an integral part of any town.

I once read a sign that said, “Your custom is not paying for a CEO’s holiday home. It pays for me and my children to swim in the local pool. It pays local people’s wages. It keeps your money and work within our community.” That is a paraphrase—it would have been an awfully big sign if it were word for word—but the point really struck me. In the age of online purchases, the importance of the high street and the economy cannot be overstated, which is why I was incredibly concerned when the news came that the city deals had been paused. We are very pleased in Ards and North Down about the Belfast city deal, and we hope to feel some of the benefits that spin off from it. The tourist attractions in the area and the Bangor waterfront redevelopment will breathe life into Bangor. The title “city deals” hides the impact on smaller towns, but such deals are vital for their survival.

The high street is the lifeblood of the local economy. We rightly encourage our retailers to go online and make the most of a bigger audience, but we also need to retain face-to-face customer service and kindness. That will only come if our Government prioritise people and sow into the regeneration of our town centres. There is everything to play for, and we all need to play by the same rules.

15:01

[Connor Naismith (Crewe and Nantwich) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to speak in this debate, which I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Catherine Atkinson) for calling.

Town centres are not merely a collection of shop units in our town centre. They form part of the social fabric of our communities, and they deserve—mine certainly does—a Government who will proactively regenerate that social fabric. As the MP for Crewe and Nantwich, the place I am proud to call my home, I have witnessed the decline of Crewe town centre. It is not lost on me that the emergence of online retail has had a part to play in the decline of our town centres. We need a Government who stand ready to respond to these changing circumstances, not one who simply expect the market alone to sort it all out.

I believe that each town across this country has its own distinct draw, and local authorities need to be empowered by the Government to reflect that. In my constituency, we have demonstrated how hospitality, leisure and experience-based initiatives can drive improvement. We have had fantastic events such as Nantwich Food Festival, and investment by our Labour-led council in Crewe Market Hall has transformed the venue into a thriving modern food, drink and entertainment space.

[Andrew Cooper (Mid Cheshire) (Lab)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that town centre events have a really important role to play in driving the vitality and viability of town centres that have been in decline? In my constituency, for instance, Northwich town council, the business improvement district, rotary clubs and various community groups have partnered to put on a full events programme over the course of the year. That really drives footfall into the town centre and has helped us to promote it as a destination for businesses considering investment.

[Connor Naismith]

I absolutely agree. Local stakeholders and organisations coming together to put on community events that drive footfall into our town centres is a way for us to tackle the challenges of retail struggling in the modern context.

Additionally, at the heart of our local community in Crewe are our vital small businesses—the lifeblood of our community. They have the community at the heart of their agendas and understand what is best for their local areas. Ensuring their success will be our success, and I hope to see the Government proactively pursue that agenda. To that end, I welcome the Government’s commitment to business rates reform, which will have a huge impact on our ability to support small businesses and encourage those that are not currently on the high street back there.

None the less, there are challenges that I know not only my constituency faces, as we have heard from the contributions so far, including that of empty shop units, which has been mentioned often. Local councils need to be given power to take a more active role in the take-up of empty units. The disused Marks & Spencer building in Crewe is a great but sad example of just that, with significant heritage and value that makes it an important asset to our community, but damage inside that makes it a poor attraction commercially, meaning that it has stayed unoccupied and is of no local benefit. I ask the Minister, what steps are the Government taking to ensure that we can breathe new life into buildings, such as that one, in the heart of our town centres?

Furthermore, connectivity remains an issue affecting many northern towns such as Crewe. Our railway heritage is a fantastic asset for regional and national connectivity, but it presents a challenge, with railway bridges and tracks creating connectivity problems in the town centre. I hope that the Government’s planning reforms will give more power to local authorities or prospective private investors into towns across the UK. The Government’s commitment to cross-departmental working will support greater connectivity within our town centres. I want the Government to put local communities at the heart of decision making. In our manifesto, we talked about returning power to local communities, and I urge the Government to make good on that promise.

[Martin Vickers (in the Chair)]

In order to try to get most people in, I will now impose a fixed three-minute time limit on speeches. I call Darren Paffey.

15:07

[Darren Paffey (Southampton Itchen) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Vickers, in my first Westminster Hall debate—or at least the first one I have managed to get called in, for which I am very grateful. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Catherine Atkinson) for securing this important debate and for setting out the issues so eloquently.

Southampton has been both a town and a city. Since 1964, when it became a city, it has grown to be not only a vibrant and diverse urban community, but also an economic hub and a centre of oceanographic innovation, with a world-leading shipping industry and emerging green tech businesses. It is a privilege to speak today with optimism about the future of my city, and that of the towns and cities represented by colleagues here, because of this Labour Government. The announcements that the Prime Minister made on Monday after the investment summit were a breath of fresh air and hugely welcome. I am here to speak up for my constituents in Southampton Itchen—to ensure that they get a fair slice of that £63 billion pie.

As my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr Frith) quite rightly stated, the last Government’s levelling-up agenda did not exactly do what it said on the tin; too many towns and cities have been left behind. The Prime Minister has made it clear that the Government are committed to revitalising communities. Southampton Itchen is perfectly positioned to seize these opportunities, so perhaps the Minister could outline the process and timetable for getting some of that investment out into our cities and towns. We must ensure that the investment reaches our town centres and high streets, which connect our constituents and provide them with jobs and opportunities. We must also ensure that decision making and place shaping is led by local leadership. Southampton, along with others in the area, is looking at a devolution deal. Again, I ask the Minister to be sympathetic to the call for national and local leaders to work together for the benefit of all.

Any visitor to the city centre of Southampton will come across Westquay, a state-of-the-art shopping centre that draws shoppers from across the region; the port, a critical hub of trade for the UK; and the Cultural Quarter, a centre for learning, arts and diversity, and a mosaic of small businesses. But they will also see stalled development sites and district centres that are too often forgotten, so although the investment is important and a welcome departure from the last 14 years, we have to regenerate well—all our commercial spaces and jobs, but also dentists, GP surgeries, schools and so on—so that people love where they live.

15:10

[Andrew Pakes (Peterborough) (Lab)]

It is a privilege to serve under your chairpersonship, Mr Vickers. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Catherine Atkinson) for starting the debate.

This is an important debate, as the turnout today shows; so many of us, from both sides of the House, are concerned about our high streets. Few things are as symbolic of the broken nature of Britain as the decline of our high streets. Empty shops, fewer police officers, drugs and antisocial behaviour are just some of the issues that businesses and residents raise with me about my own city centre.

In Peterborough, we are blessed with a heritage that many would be proud of: a world-class cathedral; a new town and development corporation legacy; an incredible museum and access to the arts and culture; and diversity that brings together world cultures in one city. Despite that inheritance, it has been a tough decade for all our high streets and the city centre. Despite the promises, we have not seen an increase in police. Drugs and antisocial behaviour remain a problem in too many areas. Under the last Government, Peterborough lost its John Lewis and M&S, and suffered incredible cuts to local government that have made all our lives harder.

This debate goes to the heart of the question of what kind of community people want to live in—it is not just about city centres. We have had broken promises over the long-awaited regeneration of Lincoln Road in Peterborough, and we have seen wear and tear in our new town centres, like Bretton and Werrington. Regeneration matters so much because the raw ingredients for Peterborough are there, but they need leadership, action and investment. Peterborough cathedral’s Monsters of the Sea exhibition this year attracted over 30,000 visitors, so we know what can be done. Anglia Ruskin University Peterborough, our new university, is bringing new life to the city. A new business improvement district called Peterborough Positive, which is two years in, is establishing itself as a voice for local businesses and traders; I place on the record my thanks to Pep Cipriano, Sean Page and the BID team for their work.

I also thank our Labour mayor, Dr Nik Johnson, Cambridgeshire and Peterborough combined authority, Network Rail and the council for their work on our new station regeneration programme. That project is welcome, but should have come much sooner. It is the first phase of regeneration of our city. The next phases will show the ambition of the Government, the council and the mayor, for a city with a new bus station that has accessibility at its heart, and a new indoor pool to replace the one shut by the previous council.

I urge the Minister to ensure that in the Government’s plans for our high streets, we make it easier for cities like mine. We need a clear message to the council that it has a leading role to play in shaping our future, and action to help small businesses, shopkeepers and hospitality by tackling late payments, taking a tougher line against retail crime and reforming business rates. Most of all, we need a plan and vision, backed up by the investment and funding to turn our city around and create the jobs, community and prosperity we need.

15:13

[Melanie Onn (Great Grimsby and Cleethorpes) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Vickers, and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Catherine Atkinson) on securing this debate.

I want to focus my remarks on empty shops. Mr Vickers, as my constituent you will be very familiar with some of the comments that I will make. This is not a new story; the decline of town centres has been overseen by a decade and a half of neglect without a national strategy to ensure that communities continue to have healthy, thriving high streets and town centres. It has fallen to local areas to undertake plans themselves—expending significant cost and time—to present plans to Government and then to gradually eke out funds, at sporadic intervals, to try to fulfil their local vision. That has happened in Grimsby and Cleethorpes. An endeavour under the banner of the Greater Grimsby town deal board and the commitment of local businesses brought about the establishment of the 2025 Group, whose members are working together to deliver the kinds of improvements that will make areas attractive and safe, to encourage the increased use of expanding town centre facilities.

I have long argued that town centres and high streets need to evolve to survive, but that requires intervention when the market fails. Initiatives such as the new Horizon Youth Zone on Garth Lane, the introduction of a community diagnostic centre—that is not without its issues but I am raising them separately with the Health Secretary—or the proposed new transport hub will all go towards making Grimsby town centre much more attractive.

We have some brilliant businesses in our town centres and on our high streets that all worked so hard through the pandemic to keep going in the face of rising bills. They have dug deep and kept their doors open. I went to the Great Big Small awards recently and I was pleased to see so many businesses celebrating and being celebrated for their contributions to the vibrancy of the offer across north-east Lincolnshire. Although I do not have time to mention them all—I really wanted to—I will say that Buzz Café has the best chips in the world. If any Member wants to come for Fish and Chips Friday, they are very welcome.

In Grimsby and Cleethorpes, we have loads of empty shops, whether we are on St Peter’s Avenue or the marketplace just behind. The plan is to pedestrianise the marketplace, and local businesses are really worried that that will affect footfall for them. Companies, particularly banks, are leaving big gaps that lie empty for extended periods of time. When they are filled—this is an issue that I have raised before—they are filled with vape shops and barbers and there is a real lack of a range of different options. I really support the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North about keeping the quality good, the appearance less gaudy, and the impression of the area at a high level so it is improved and is made more, not less, attractive.

15:16

[Mr Bayo Alaba (Southend East and Rochford) (Lab)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Catherine Atkinson) for securing the debate, which is incredibly important to me and my constituency of Southend East and Rochford. When we talk about high streets and city centre regeneration, we are talking about so much more than just the retail industry. The ripple effect is clear: declining footfall also threatens hospitality, cultural amenities, tourism and employment. The list is actually endless.

One reason why I stood to be the MP for Southend East and Rochford is that I can see how much potential the area has to offer. For a coastal community in the commuter belt of London, regenerating the city centre and high streets, such as Hamlet Court Road, will be key to unlocking a prosperous local economy. I have met a multitude of local businesses to understand the challenges they face and discussed a strategy to revive our high streets. They have told me about the difficulties in covering business rates, utility bills and the decreased footfall caused by antisocial behaviour, which ironically increases as our shops and venues close down.

A by-product of a vibrant high street is that it is a gateway for young people, providing soft skills and equipping them for the future. Last week, I met with bar operators on Alexandra Street who I know will be vital to the regeneration of the city centre in Southend. Independent businesses, such as IndiRock, are reinventing what the high street has to offer and paving the way for businesses to come. I have had a long career in regeneration and the hospitality industry and, chatting to the organisations at the forefront of Southend’s offer, I felt inspired that there was a collective of new businesses looking to reanimate the town centre. It is now our obligation to support them with strong, forward-thinking policy, giving them the foundations to grow their business and to elevate the communities that they are in.

Another important aspect of a vibrant high street is the circular economy, which is limited in Southend East and Rochford because of its struggling high streets. We need to put the mechanisms in place that see every pound spent circulated locally three, four or even five times. That is the goal of any community that wants to future-proof its relevance. Economic growth is the defining mission of this Government and ensuring thriving local high streets is essential to that. As MPs, we need to work towards effective partnerships with local authorities and business associations to realise that mission locally and to restore vibrancy to our high streets. I am filled with the hope that visitors to Southend East and Rochford will step off a train from Southend Victoria or Southend Central and will know from the thriving, bustling and prosperous high street that our local area is well worth a return visit.

15:19

[Melanie Ward (Cowdenbeath and Kirkcaldy) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Vickers. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Catherine Atkinson) on securing this important debate. After 14 years of Tory government and 17 years of the SNP—failed Governments both—those of us who represent Scottish constituencies need it now more than ever.

Kirkcaldy is the biggest town in my constituency. Two weeks ago, I held a roundtable for business owners and managers on Kirkcaldy High Street to discuss the urgent need to revive our town centre. They expressed their concerns about a high street that is far from what it used to be, with empty shop fronts that do not reflect the ingenuity or industriousness of Kirkcaldy’s people. The shop front vacancy rate on the high street sits at over 25%, and the number of businesses declined by 22% and 14% in Cowdenbeath and Kirkcaldy, respectively, in the three years after the pandemic. Perhaps the most disheartening thing about the vacancy rate is that when a unit becomes vacant, residents feel it is unlikely that anyone will fill it again. We have to change that.

Attendees at my roundtable expressed fear of a vicious cycle, which other MPs have mentioned today. They worry that as the closure of shops leads to lower footfall in cafés, restaurants and pubs, the eventual closure of those establishments is more likely, too. Despite the important work of Fife council, that is what happens after almost two decades without a proper national economic development strategy or industry strategy. That is the effect on town centres such as Kirkcaldy’s.

I am grateful that the Labour Government have seen success in the investment summit this week, and that we have a consultation on the new industrial strategy. We must ensure that it helps towns and cities to thrive as part of a cross-Government approach, rather than having them fight among themselves for scraps of investment. Business rates have also been mentioned by a number of colleagues. That is a devolved issue, and we in Scottish Labour have long called for a rebalancing of rates between online and physical retail premises.

There is much more to say, of course, but finally I want to mention that I have been encouraged by community action in my constituency to improve our high street. Retail must be part of the solution, but so must other activity. I particularly commend the work of Love Oor Lang Toun, which references the epic length of our seafront. I also warmly congratulate the Adam Smith Global Foundation on the success of the new Kirkcaldy lottery, which should also help with regeneration on our high street. There is so much to do to ensure that regeneration on our high street gives us a future to look forward to, and not just a past to be proud of.

15:22

[Jess Asato (Lowestoft) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Vickers. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Catherine Atkinson) for securing this debate.

We have all heard about the challenges facing our high streets, and, in Lowestoft and Beccles in my constituency, the difficulties are all too real. Last year, a survey found that out of the 366 premises in Lowestoft, 96 were empty. In Beccles, our last remaining bank for business, Lloyds, is set to close, forcing businesses that rely on it to travel to Lowestoft on gridlocked roads to do their banking. Poor mobile connectivity in Beccles is also hampering our residents’ ability to do business effectively. We also lack a real plan to support Lowestoft’s nighttime economy, which includes our wonderful theatres, the Marina and Players, our cinema—the most easterly in the UK—and our excellent restaurants such as MarkG. We lack buses that run into the evening, and later trains from Lowestoft to Ipswich.

I am glad, however, to say that in Lowestoft we have seen signs of life returning to the high street. Our heritage action zones have breathed new life into beautiful old buildings. Plans such as the £24.3 million cultural quarter and the £4.8 million creative hub in a former post office are incredibly exciting. Those investments are not just about buildings; they represent a belief in the future of our town. We are reimagining our future as a green energy gateway to the east of England and as a cultural destination, led by the excellent team behind the First Light festival. Meeting with businesses in the town, I see that belief, and I am confident that Lowestoft has what it takes to bounce back fully. I made a pledge during the election to open a parliamentary office on the high street should I win, and I am delighted that soon I will do just that.

Lowestoft is a beautiful place with potential that is beginning to be unlocked by entrepreneurs, community leaders and the fantastic people behind Lowestoft Vision. The momentum we are gaining needs to be sustained. That is why this Government’s plans to boost business and build back the high street, whether by tackling antisocial behaviour or giving communities the power to revamp their high streets, are so important.

I hope that the Minister can reassure us that the Government are working at speed to review business rates so that our small high street business are not disadvantaged compared with the online giants. I am confident that there is a way forward, so that our high streets are once again not just surviving but thriving.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Martin Vickers (in the Chair)]

Order. We have three more speakers, so would they take two minutes each? I call Amanda Martin.

15:25

[Amanda Martin (Portsmouth North) (Lab)]

Thank you for your chairmanship, Mr Vickers. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Catherine Atkinson) for securing this debate and raising compulsory purchase orders and auctions, which I know will be welcome in my city.

Portsmouth is a proud city of heritage, the Royal Navy and development, but so much of that is in the south. In my constituency of Portsmouth North, there are forgotten high streets—Cosham, North End and the London Road that runs through the centre, none of which have received high street funding and all of which are in desperate need of regeneration. My constituents write to me to complain of high streets where bookies, vape shops and massage parlours proliferate, where pubs are boarded up, and where there are no quality businesses or family-friendly spaces.

What do we need to do? We need solutions. We need a holistic, creative approach to place making and regeneration that includes the voices of the community and develops the public realm into useful and beautiful spaces. We should not shy away from expecting where we live to benefit our lives and wellbeing. Building up capacity in local authority planning is crucial.

Where excessive retail or office space leads to vacant shops, that creates a feeling of decline. With cross-Government co-operation and support for local authorities, we could repurpose those buildings, providing the new primary—[Interruption.]

[Martin Vickers (in the Chair)]

Order. There is a Division in the House. The sitting is suspended for 15 minutes.

15:26

Sitting suspended for a Division in the House.

15:26

On resuming—

[Tim Roca (Macclesfield) (Lab)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Catherine Atkinson) for calling this debate. It is incredibly important and she is proving herself a powerful advocate for her constituents.

One issue we contend with is the inheritance from the previous Government. In this area, like so many others, it is clear that they were a dismal failure. Over 14 long years, sometimes supported by our Liberal Democrat colleagues, 420,000 traditional retail jobs were lost and 10,000 retail stores closed their doors. Macclesfield has been no stranger to that. Residents know of the long depressing decline of “Mac” town centre, with empty shops along Mill Street.

My campaign office had to move because, under the parliamentary budget, we could not afford the rent and business rates. There is also a huge empty building where Marks and Spencer was, because out-of-town retail parks were approved, going over the heads of local councils and against the wishes of local councillors. Those are damaging the vitality of our town centres. We do have phenomenal businesses in Macclesfield, and we have the Treacle Market, which is famous in the region.

There is a debate as to whether a bid would be right for our town, but if we are serious about supporting our town centres, we need to reform business rates; we need greater devolution in Cheshire; we need to back Great British Energy to reduce energy costs for businesses; we need to deal with the issue of empty shops—I like the strategy idea mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North—we need to exploit housing opportunities, so that we have the right mix in our town centres; and we need to improve connectivity. In Macclesfield, we have seen a huge decline in bus links to our outlying villages, and we need to restore that.

I am therefore glad to see that the Government are moving on these issues. I will be backing local businesses in my constituency by using them, and, down here, by advocating for the tax, devolution and investment changes that they need to help revive our high streets and town centres.

[Martin Vickers (in the Chair)]

I call the Lib Dem spokesperson, Vikki Slade.

15:46

[Vikki Slade (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairship, Mr Vickers, and to represent the Liberal Democrats for the first time as a Housing, Communities and Local Government spokesperson. The regeneration of towns and cities is an intensely local matter, and it must be approached from a local perspective. Telling people what will fix their towns is the best way to fail. Cities and towns evolved over many decades, and the vestiges of every generation serve as a reminder of what once was, and local authorities need to balance the need to retain the heritage of a place with having an eye to the future.

Toxic nostalgia about how places were when we were young can be a dangerous inhibitor to regeneration. “When we were young” is subjective. For example, the department stores that sorted out our parents’ wedding lists, immortalised by Mrs Slocombe and Captain Peacock, belied the slum conditions and heavy pollution in the cities right outside those stores, and the Woolworths and Blockbuster Videos on the high streets of my childhood are remembered much more fondly than the massive dole queues on those very same high streets. We also forget how the infamous pick ’n’ mix counter destroyed so many independent sweet shops.

City centres have always changed over time, and if we want to avoid another decade of decline after the shocks of Brexit and covid, we need the Government to invest, and to hand the resources and responsibilities to councils and communities. We also need to make sure, as previously mentioned, that our towns and cities give visitors an experience. Shopping will still be part of that, but rarely do people go to the city for just shopping; it is now for eating, playing, meeting, working or living, and we need to make sure that high streets are not just about retail any more.

The Government need to help businesses become more efficient and make the most of technology, but also to provide people with the skills to adapt to their second or third careers. That could be through better use of the apprenticeship levy and supporting both further education colleges and specialist skills providers in offering more bespoke and more agile courses, particularly for people for whom traditional education has failed. One example is Mike Taylor Education in my constituency, which offers high-quality barbering courses from a high street location and supports other thriving businesses with their future workforce.

Liberal Democrats want to see the various pots of money, such as the future high streets fund and the towns fund rolled into a single pot, like with the shared prosperity fund, and we want to avoid the cliff edge that we are expecting in March 2025, so that councils know where they stand for at least another year while a longer term funding cycle is developed. We must learn lessons from the past: under a previous Conservative Administration, Bournemouth’s council approved an out-of-town shopping centre, which led to a mass exodus of most of the corporates from the town centre.

[Amanda Martin]

Does the hon. Lady agree that we need some focused solutions? She has talked about holistic approaches, about the changes in our high streets and about how we need them for communities. That could be for new GP surgeries, for nurseries—whether private or local authority—for pop-up markets, which we have heard about, for art studios, or for facilities that we need, such as baby changing and public toilets. Does the hon. Lady agree that, in order to do that, we need to reform business rates and ensure our local authorities’ planning departments have the capacity to look at those changes? Does she agree that we need cross-Government working, including with the Home Office to make our streets safe, and the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government to support local authorities and update planning systems—

[Martin Vickers (in the Chair)]

Order. I think you are trying to have the 30 seconds you lost. Interventions should be much shorter.

[Vikki Slade]

I will come to business rates later, and I absolutely agree that meanwhile use is important.

The out-of-town shopping centre was such a catastrophe because it was cost-effective for major retailers to go there as they did not need to navigate the town centre traffic, there was no need to maintain historic or awkward buildings—the hon. Member for Macclesfield (Tim Roca) spoke about the difficulties with his Marks and Spencer—and customers and staff could be given free parking. We are seeing similar mistakes in my constituency of Mid Dorset and North Poole: low-cost supermarkets are buying up seemingly easy plots on the edge of town, forcing everyone into their cars to visit, rather than investing in underused or empty awkward town centre units. Central Government might be able to invest in them in order to drive people into town.

[James Naish (Rushcliffe) (Lab)]

I was the leader of Bassetlaw district council. Bassetlaw was the home of Wilko, which of course went under two summers ago. Only a month or so later, the Government announced that 55 towns would get £20 million to create shiny projects. Does the hon. Lady agree that we should think differently about retail units that play a social function, as well as an economic function, in our town centres?

[Vikki Slade]

I am delighted that Poole was one of the places to get its Wilko back a little while ago—that was a great celebration. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right: some town centre units are anchor spaces, and planning and financial levers such as allowing councils to keep their locally generated business rates could transform them by allowing them to work with businesses. Currently, councils have to back-fill those lost business rates sent to the Treasury; council tax payers fund that, which is a big ask for them.

As many Members have said, business rates must be an urgent priority from the Government—

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government (Alex Norris)]

indicated assent.

[Vikki Slade]

I am confident from the nodding I see that that they will be. In fact, that is what first got me interested in politics: I felt the unfairness of business rates when I had my own high street business. The Liberal Democrats want to replace business rates with a commercial land owner levy, alongside an increase in the digital services tax, which would boost investment and cut taxes for businesses in nine out of 10 English local authority areas. It would benefit retailers and other small businesses, and would reduce the burden on councils as there would be fewer land parcels to tax.

There is deep concern, not just from the Liberal Democrats but from the LGA, which represents the whole local government family, about the unfettered use of permitted development. Converted offices often provide poor living spaces, and using permitted development means that affordable housing and community infra- structure is not provided. That puts a greater burden on local people and services, and negatively impacts community cohesion.

City and town centres need the same careful plan-led development as suburban and rural areas, and community consent must be at the very heart of regeneration. If we do that, I am sure many of the 1.5 million new homes that the Government plan can be delivered, but that will only work alongside high-quality design and a substantial injection of grant funding. Housing development in urban areas is complex and expensive, and organisations such as Homes England and other funding will be needed to provide that support. Cranes in the sky are the best energiser of the local development market, and sometimes councils must blink first. Schemes such as Holes Bay in Poole need urgent support so that we do not miss the opportunity to thrive under this brand new Government.

Towns and cities need people to come in, so we must urgently reform transport. We must welcome the potential for councils to franchise bus services if it is right for them, but it is not just about buses: the national grid must be boosted so that electric vehicles can be turbo-charged, and we need a 5% reduction on VAT on public charging so that everyone has the right to drive EV.

We really need legislation on the use of e-scooters. We must improve our pavements, deal with delivery mopeds, which are making people’s lives an absolute misery, and tackle congestion on our streets.

A vibrant town centre needs arts and culture, reflecting our diverse populations. Events such as Wimborne folk festival and Wareham Wednesdays draw people in from surrounding towns and villages. Bigger events, such as Arts by the Sea in Bournemouth and Poole Oktoberfest, draw people in during seaside shoulder time and— I agree with the intervention made earlier—they create the opportunity for investors to see our towns at their best.

We need to make sure that councils can afford to support tourism. The squeeze on councils over the last decade under the Conservatives has made it virtually impossible for councils to fund these non-statutory things. I would like the Government to keep considering options such as tourism levies, local visitor economy partnerships and other ways for local councils to generate income. Lib Dems call on the new Labour Government to properly fund local government, urgently close the £4 billion local government funding gap and let councils lead change.

As a former council leader I have witnessed how councils have had to reinvent themselves time and again. They touch every home and business, so investing locally will pay dividends. We know what works. Just as importantly, councils know what does not work. Just like the big industries that shaped our cities for the first half of the 20th century that are not coming back, the giant retailers that shaped our town centres in the second half are part of history, too. To create thriving communities, we need the Government to invest locally and let places choose how they regenerate.

15:56

[David Simmonds (Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner) (Con)]

It has been a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Vickers.

[Sir Roger Gale in the Chair]

I am sure it will continue to be a pleasure to serve under the chairmanship of Sir Roger.

The debate has been wide ranging. It has gone from the commanding heights of the international economy to the truly micro. I commend the hon. Member for Derby North (Catherine Atkinson) for having brought together a wide group of Members with a clear interest in the role of local authorities and in regeneration specifically, but more broadly in the future success of our high streets.

It is always worth remembering that when there are international investment summits, 70% of people in work in the UK are in an enterprise with less than five staff. It is easy for big businesses to turn up and meet the Government. I very much welcome the investments that were announced at the investment summit. I welcomed them when they were announced under the previous Government and I welcome them again. But we need to make sure that those investments continue to manifest as a benefit on our high street.

The pressure of time perhaps meant the hon. Member for Derby North did not have the opportunity to talk about the input of people such as Councillor Barry Lewis, the leader of Derbyshire county council, and Councillor Ben Bradley, the leader of Nottinghamshire, who are examples of local leaders who have championed inward investment. Of course there are many from across the political spectrum.

Here in Parliament is an opportunity for us to reflect that although it is easy to describe the problem, we need to focus on what we can do to make a difference. My hon. Friend the Member for Bromsgrove (Bradley Thomas) shared some examples of that from his experience as a council leader. I hope that when the Minister responds he will have something to say about the impact of business rate reliefs.

Currently any English business that is a shop, restaurant, café, bar, pub, cinema, music venue, gym, spa, hotel or any form of leisure venue, can obtain a 75% discount on business rates, capped at £110,000 per business per year. I am aware that that rate relief is not available to the same extent in Labour-run Wales and aware that the Government are about to embark on some Budget decisions. But it is clear that the ability of businesses, such as those that are anchors on our high streets, to secure that relief has been extremely important, especially in the post-covid era, in making sure that our high streets remain vibrant. That sits alongside measures such as—

[Helen Grant (Maidstone and Malling) (Con)]

As we have heard today, town and city centres like mine in Maidstone desperately need a range of vibrant and varied shops and businesses. Does my hon. Friend agree that a reduction in business rates, not just a reform, would incentivise businesses to set up, especially independents and new start-ups? At the same time it would ensure that a level playing field starts to be set with e-commerce and home delivery services.

[David Simmonds]

My hon. Friend represents the county town of Kent and presses the case that the leader of Kent county council, Councillor Roger Gough, makes: as the county town, it is particularly important that Maidstone demonstrates a vibrant and thriving high street. My hon. Friend is a vocal champion for that.

Measures such as business improvement districts and local enterprise partnerships have enabled combinations of local employers, business investors, local authorities, land holders and housing providers to come together to look at how regeneration schemes can best be designed. There is cross-party consensus that local leaders know their communities best and are best placed to design projects to bring the maximum possible benefit.

I acknowledge that it has been challenging to implement the process set out in the Levelling-up and Regeneration Act 2023 and the schemes that followed from it. For many years, the EU cohesion fund was the key source of inward investment at a strategic level, and in the post-covid and the post-Brexit era, central Government have found it challenging to design a multi-year financial arrangement that replicates it, serves a similar purpose and is deliverable at scale. I wish the new Government well with that challenge.

The 2023 Act also included planning reforms that enable long-empty shop units to be converted to much-needed housing on our high streets. That reflects a longer-term change on our high streets from retail to night-time, leisure and hospitality economies. Those are the businesses that benefit from the highest level of business rate relief, and they are becoming mainstays on our high streets. A number of hon. Members have mentioned the benefit to microbusinesses of approaches such as safer by design, which uses planners’ expertise to build out antisocial behaviour and crime from buildings and developments from the start through their design, layout and physical security measures.

It is important to reflect on the successful regeneration projects of other nations. This debate is focused on towns and cities, but when German reunification took place, national politicians were clear from the start that the project to rebalance the country was going to take 30 years. They were also clear that it would start with significant investment in large cities to create employment and prosperity, and that that would then feed into the wider social and public infrastructure around those towns and cities to ensure that, in due course, everybody in the country could benefit from a higher standard of living. Although we set out an ambition on that scale with the levelling-up projects, we did not have anything like the time and resources to deliver it on the scale that we wanted to, especially with the relentless calls for higher spending on covid in the background, which were a key part of shaping the Government’s financial approach at that time.

I note with a degree of pride that an average of 400 new jobs were created for every single day that the last Government were in office over 14 years. We must remember that work is key to regenerating our high streets—if people have money in their pockets, they will spend it locally. When we left office, youth unemployment was half what it was when we entered.

I read the Crewe business improvement district proposal, which, like many such projects, started out with very specific words: this is a “private sector led proposal”. That is a recognition that private sector investment will be crucial, and I think we are seeing a similar recognition from the new Government.

I have two asks of the Minister. First, will he set out the timetable for the next round of devolution? If he is unable to do so now, would he give us an indication of when he will do so? There are local authorities looking to switch to the elected mayor model. The East Midlands combined authority will be significant for places such as Derbyshire, but there are many other parts of England that are looking to do that.

Secondly, will the Minister commit to, or give us a deadline for a statement on, the retention of the 75% business rate relief that was introduced by the previous Government and is still being followed by the Treasury? It has been critical for keeping investment and employment buoyant on our high streets. We need to make sure that vital lifeline is retained into the future.

16:04

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government (Alex Norris)]

It is a pleasure to serve with you in the Chair, Sir Roger, and to speak for the Government in the debate, which I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North (Catherine Atkinson) on securing. She can tell by the attendance and enthusiasm of hon. Members that she has clearly struck a nerve. I support much of what she said, particularly her passion for the regeneration of our towns and cities to create safe and flourishing local communities.

I represent a Nottingham constituency, so although I will endeavour to get through the rest of the debate without making a Derby joke, that will be very difficult given our important local rivalries—if you see me starting to dance on the spot, Sir Roger, that is why. My hon. Friend’s points about pride, safety and vacancy are at the nub of the debate. I will cover them, as well as a number of contributions from other hon. Members, in my remarks.

Localism is important, and it was mentioned by the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (David Simmonds), the Liberal Democrat spokesperson, the hon. Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Vikki Slade), and many other hon. Members. The hon. Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole characterised it as an “intensely local” debate. My hon. Friend the Member for Luton South and South Bedfordshire (Rachel Hopkins) talked about giving communities the tools. My hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr Frith), who I know is now participating in the debate in the main Chamber, talked about local people being the real experts, and I totally agree with that. We made a clear commitment in our manifesto to work closely in a new partnership approach with local authorities and elected mayors to stabilise the funding system and build a new one.

The shadow Minister rightly talked about the previous Government’s efforts: the future high streets fund, town deals, levelling-up fund, community ownership fund, UK shared prosperity fund, and long-term plan for towns—lots of different interventions. He has heard me say this before, but my analysis is that they are less than the sum of their parts. It is our job, as a new Government, to make good on our commitment to introduce a more allocative model, perhaps on a longer-term basis, with less central direction and more local decision making.

[Baggy Shanker (Derby South) (Lab/Co-op)]

Despite successive challenges from devastating local government cuts, the impact of lockdowns during the covid pandemic, and 14 years of under-investment from the last Government, we are fighting back in Derby. We have turned a corner, and I would say that we are actually on the up. We now have a Labour Government, a Labour East Midlands Mayor—who is key to this solution—and a Labour council.

Importantly, we have a really strong private-public sector partnership trying to deliver a cleaner, safer and more prosperous Derby, but there is lots more to do. Does the Minister agree that there is more scope to regenerate our city centres with a forward-thinking, collaborative Government who work with the private sector, but put working people at the forefront?

[Sir Roger Gale (in the Chair)]

Order. The Minister has a very limited amount of time to wind up. I appreciate that there will be hon. Members who have not said everything that they want to, but I ask them to resist the temptation of doing so if the Minister is to respond to the debate.

[Alex Norris]

I am grateful for the intervention from my hon. Friend the Member for Derby South (Baggy Shanker), and praise his work as leader of the council. This is politics-blind: we want to see a real alignment of national, regional or sub-regional government with the local authority and the local community, all working together in the shared interest and using tools and resources in the best way. That speaks to the new model that I talked about, as invited to by my hon. Friend the Member for Southampton Itchen (Darren Paffey). We want to bring resources together across Government—a theme mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth North (Amanda Martin)—to get the best of it.

My hon. Friend the Member for Crewe and Nantwich (Connor Naismith) made a good point about local events. I am conscious that the biggest personal and professional embarrassment of my life took place in Crewe town centre 16 and a half years ago—it is a matter of public record—but nevertheless, I know it to be a vibrant town centre. The point made by the hon. Member for Bromsgrove (Bradley Thomas) about investment portfolios is exactly right, understanding that there should be, as the shadow Minister said, a global reach even to the most local communities. That is the environment we need to create.

Regarding the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), I had a chance to talk to some business owners from Newtownards when I presented at the High Street Heroes awards for Retail NI, which does excellent work in this space. I am afraid that Ballymena won on that day, but I know the creativity is there. The key is—this is different, as he said, in a devolved sense—to get the tools and resources to the experts, who are the local community.

It is no secret that growth is at the centre of our mission and at the core of the new Government’s activity, especially local growth in towns and city centres, and the businesses in our communities that make our high streets successful. There is no one vision for that—it will look different everywhere, and that is a good thing—but there are common themes around safety, accessibility and the types and mix of businesses and services we want to see. I will refer briefly to a couple of those themes and to some of the work that has be done so far.

Prior to the election, we committed to our five-point plan on anti-social behaviour and shoplifting; banking hubs; late payments; revamping empty shops, pubs and community spaces; and business rates. That work is under way.

My hon. Friends the Members for Derby North, for Portsmouth North, and for Great Grimsby and Cleethorpes (Melanie Onn) mentioned vacancy. We will be bringing in high street rental auctions very soon—as my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North said, we need only secondary legislation—to give local communities the power, through their council, to bring vacant units back into use. I am really looking forward to that. We have also committed, as part of the English devolution Bill process, to go further with the community right to buy. I know there is a lot of interest in that; it is on its way. Those are real tools to help communities to shape place.

The theme of safety has come up frequently, and was mentioned by my hon. Friends the Members for Peterborough (Andrew Pakes) and for Southend East and Rochford (Mr Alaba). Combating violence in retail is a personal passion of mine. We know that that type of crime and violence in communities is a doom loop, because it creates more vacancies and makes people less likely to go out, which in turn creates an environment where such behaviour thrives.

As part of our safer streets mission, we have committed to a neighbourhood policing guarantee that includes returning patrols to town centres; 13,000 more police and police community support officers; and a named officer in every community for people to turn to. We want communities to have their say in how they are used and, most of all, to know who to talk to. To be clear, there will be tools to tackle people who persistently harm their local community—for example, new respect orders that have growing penalties and a specific offence of violence against retail workers. Those measures will make our communities safer to live in, work in and visit.

I am conscious that I am very near the end of the debate, which I think is at 4.14 pm. Is that right, Sir Roger?

[Sir Roger Gale (in the Chair)]

Given injury time for the Division, the debate will end at 4.18 pm, but the mover of the motion will need a couple of minutes to wind up.

[Alex Norris]

I might move my 1.5 speed down to 1.4 speed, then!

Hon. Members, including my hon. Friends the Members for Macclesfield (Tim Roca) and for Cowdenbeath and Kirkcaldy (Melanie Ward) and the shadow Minister, mentioned business rates, which we are very mindful of. As we have said, we intend to level the playing field between the high street and online giants to incentivise investment, tackle empty properties and support entrepreneurs in that venture. However, that measure has to be revenue-neutral because of the important work that business rates do.

Hon. Members invite me to make a slightly more fulsome commitment than I can today, because we are two weeks away from a major fiscal event. As they would expect, any significant tax announcement will be made then by the Chancellor, so I have to hold a little bit back. We have made the commitment we have made, however, and I have said what I have said today. We understand how important the issue of business rates is.

My hon. Friend the Member for Lowestoft (Jess Asato) talked about the loss of the final bank in Beccles, how that is a totemic moment for a high street or town, and the impact it has on footfall, which is at the heart of the viability and safety of businesses. We are very keen on and committed to banking hubs: we have committed to rolling out 350 by the end of the Parliament, and we expect 100 to already be in place by Christmas. I have no doubt that she will be an advocate for her community in that regard. Banking hubs could become not only important in arresting one of the major sources of decline we have seen over the years, but a very attractive anchor on a high street, helping to bring in other businesses. There is a lot to go for in the banking hubs space.

Hon. Members have mentioned planning. We do not have time to talk about the whole planning system, but we want an environment that promotes the new mix. The Lib Dem spokesperson, the hon. Member for Mid Dorset and North Poole, talked about not wanting to go back to the past, but it will not be, because we could order a book in two clicks on our phone—in this debate, heaven forfend. Instead, we know that the future will look different. Whether it is banking hubs, a mix of retail and leisure or, as the shadow Minister said, housing in the right conditions, it is about that new mix, and we want to ensure that communities have the tools and resources to shape place to ensure that they have that.

I will draw my remarks to a close so that my hon. Friend the Member for Derby North has time to sum up, and I will end where I started by congratulating her on introducing the debate. We have heard from hon. Members across the nations and regions of the UK. There are many common challenges, but there is a real enthusiasm for the powers and resources to shape place locally, and that is what this Government will deliver.

16:15

[Catherine Atkinson]

I thank the Minister, who I know cares deeply about this issue, and the shadow Ministers, the hon. Members for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (David Simmonds) and for Mid Dorset and North Poole (Vikki Slade). I also thank hon. Members for the insight and passion that we have heard from them. I was so proud to see so many of my hon. Friends elected to serve some of the most beautiful towns and cities in this country, and hearing now about the work they are doing to regenerate them and their huge optimism for the future has been a great pleasure. I will look to find further opportunities to ensure that we can continue this important debate.

I do not wish to cause any shock, but statistics tell us that a quarter of people have already started buying their Christmas presents, and I implore everyone to do that shopping in our towns and cities. There is a place for the app store, but when it comes to Christmas, the real store beats it every time. I thank all hon. Members again for coming and contributing so meaningfully to this debate.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the regeneration of city and town centres.

Essex Highways Funding

Wednesday 16th October 2024 Westminster Hall

16:18

[Priti Patel (Witham) (Con)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered funding for highways in Essex.

I am delighted to be granted this debate and pleased to see you in the Chair, Sir Roger. I welcome the Minister, the hon. Member for Nottingham South (Lilian Greenwood), to her role. She and I have already been in correspondence about a range of highways issues—there will be a big file on me in her Department, no doubt about it. I look forward to not just this debate but future ones, because Essex is always at the forefront of making the case for infrastructure investment schemes.

It is important for the Minister to be aware of the strategic and economic importance of the great county of Essex. It is a county of entrepreneurs and an engine of economic growth for the whole country. I have made the point consistently for 14 years in this House that we are net contributors to the Treasury. We have a gross value added of more than £40 billion and 75,000 businesses supporting more than 700,000 jobs. We have key ports and airports in Essex, and I have spent near enough over a decade supporting them, being an advocate for them and helping them on business cases, including for inward investment. I am very proud of that work, and we as a county and a country should be grateful to the many firms involved for the investment that they bring.

As the Minister will be aware, Stansted airport is the third or fourth largest and busiest passenger airport in the country, with around 28 million passengers a year. It is also the second largest cargo airport and I pay tribute to it. The Minister will no doubt have seen the Government’s press release about the £1.1 billion investment to support the expansion of Stansted to accommodate around 43 million passengers a year. I appreciate that there was that press release on Monday, but I have been working with Stansted on its plans: the scale of the investment was actually announced and widely published last year, when the planning process was completed. I also supported Stansted on that. I look forward to the implementation of the plans. They are really important, and Stansted is an incredible airport. I have been supporting and championing investment in and new routes for Stansted since 2010.

We also have Southend airport and various ports, supporting and facilitating international trade: Harwich, Tilbury and DP World London Gateway. I have spent over a decade working with friends and colleagues at DP World. I will continue to support them; my relationship with them goes way back in terms of supporting their business and investment case. As with Stansted, we had the announcement this week from DP World, much of which was already in train.

How can I put this politely? I am very conscious of the sensitivities of some Secretaries of State, namely the Transport Secretary and the deputy Prime Minister, that led at the end of last week to some of the more negative responses from businesses such as DP World. Those businesses are important investors in the United Kingdom and we should never undermine them. They are the ones that have brought capital investment, as well as jobs and growth, to our great county and our country.

Of course, the reason why those companies locate to Essex is its close proximity to London and everything else that that brings. We have Felixstowe to the north, in Suffolk, and of course Dover in Kent. All these ports are significant to the health and economic wellbeing of the whole United Kingdom, as well as London and the south-east. The containerised goods that they bring in are moved through our region, the east of England, and through Essex in particular. We are a buoyant hub for international trade.

Consequently, businesses and investors know that, because of our favourable strategic location, Essex is a place to do business. However, for significant economic growth, new investment and further job creation— I never tire of speaking about Essex and the economic dynamics of our county—the strategic road network must be supported. I want to touch on a few particular schemes. One of the most pressing road investment schemes is the widening of the A12 between junction 19 at the Boreham interchange and junction 25 at Marks Tey. I have no doubt that the Minister has been briefed extensively about the background to the scheme, but it has a long history. I know that this is only a short debate, so I will just summarise that history.

Back in 2014, the then Chancellor of the Exchequer gave a commitment to fund the widening of the A12 scheme to improve safety and, importantly, to reduce congestion, to enhance our region’s economic growth and capability. The scheme was well under way and being developed. As part of their local plan processes, local planning authorities were considering a garden community. That had an impact on the entire scheme; actually, it delayed it. Not just one local authority was involved, but two, and their political composition was mixed. Until those planning processes were resolved, the development consent order application could not be submitted. If those planning issues had not come up, the scheme would have been built and completed by now, which was always the intention. However, despite those delays, Ministers in the previous Government were always consistent and firmly committed to the scheme. Investment plans were already laid and pretty much there.

The Minister will also know that we had a legal challenge; indeed, she wrote to me about that over the summer. It came from an environmental activist, who basically brought greater delay to the scheme, but the challenge was dismissed by the courts this summer. Of course, the general election also delayed and postponed further development. The Minister wrote to me on 2 August; I have her letter with me today. She said:

“The Secretary of State has commissioned an internal review of the capital spend of DfT’s capital spend portfolio. This review will bring in external experience and move quickly to make recommendations about current and future schemes.”

I asked for more details about the review, undertaking, costs, assessment criteria and timetable, and received a response on 24 September. It stated:

“The Department is not currently able to provide the information you have requested.”

That concerns me, and it concerns us in Essex, primarily because of the long history of this road, extensive work that has taken place and large amount of public money that has been committed to the work, consultations and studies.

We need this scheme. If we are going to have more housing, planning, growth and development, which we support, then all this needs to come together. We do not want any delay or scrapping that leads to greater cost, or even to other schemes going back to the drawing board.

I have been engaging with the Department and National Highways, and I should add that the scheme is widely supported by communities, local residents and businesses across the region. I am pretty certain that the Secretary of State has recently received a cross-party letter supporting the scheme and encouraging the Department to get on with it, signed by my right hon. Friend the Member for Maldon (Sir John Whittingdale); my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and North Essex (Sir Bernard Jenkin); the newly elected hon. Members for Colchester (Pam Cox) and for Chelmsford (Marie Goldman); the former Member of Colchester, who is now the chair of Transport East; Essex county council; Braintree district council; Colchester city council; Chelmsford city council; and Maldon district council. We are all united, because we recognise the long-term benefits of the scheme. Can the Minister at least confirm whether her Department is championing it?

The road is currently being patched up in places. Because of the lack of investment over decades, National Highways is working on refreshes on some parts of the route. The scheme is, to coin a phrase with which the Minister will be familiar, shovel-ready. In the light of some of the re-announcements around DP World and Stansted, it will obviously bring great benefit.

[Marie Goldman (Chelmsford) (LD)]

Many houses could be threatened and not delivered at all if the scheme does not come forward. As the right hon. Lady just mentioned, I fully support the A12 widening scheme. I have spoken to local developers who say that if the scheme did not go ahead, that could threaten the development of 55,000 houses in the area—a very large number. That is how important the scheme is.

[Priti Patel]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right. Mid-Essex has been growing for decades. We support that growth, but with it we have to have the infrastructure investment. She will be familiar with the Army and Navy road and all the other trials and tribulations we have had with our infrastructure. The expansion of the Boreham junction is also pivotal to her constituency, which neighbours mine. We need this scheme to come together.

The other scheme that the Department is more than familiar with is the A120 dualling scheme between Braintree and the A12, which the previous Government were committed to. This is all about the connectivity—the arteries, as we call them—that will get traffic moving. The current single carriageway stretch of the road between Braintree and Marks Tey is not fit for purpose, and has been listed as one of the most dangerous roads in England. Prior to 2010, the previous Labour Government were looking at developing the scheme, and since my election in 2010 I have been a consistent advocate and campaigner for it. We even secured funding from the previous Government to undertake the feasibility study. So much work has gone into that, and I commend everyone who worked on it.

That work led to a favoured route option: to dual the A120 and integrate it into the A12 widening scheme. We have therefore always made the case that the two schemes should be coterminous and linked together. That announcement was made in 2018. The route option would ease traffic congestion and take traffic away from villages that have been literally gridlocked, such as Coggeshall. Importantly, it would also improve road safety and boost economic growth, which is crucial to our region and this part of mid-Essex.

There are strong and compelling business cases. I have no doubt that the Minister has been briefed on the issue and had conversations with National Highways, which has adopted the scheme. National Highways built on the work undertaken by Essex county council, and the scheme was therefore included in the future road investment strategy pipeline. As we know, pipelines and schemes have been moved around, but previous Ministers continued to support the scheme.

We are now concerned about the future of that scheme. Will the Minister commit to work with us on the dualling of the A120 and to look at providing the funding for it? I appreciate that fiscal events are coming up and there are various processes of capital allocation. That road scheme is linked to the development of the A12 and the integration there, so I would welcome an update from the Minister.

There are a few other local roads that I would like to touch on. Essex county council’s outstanding leader, Councillor Kevin Bentley, is to be commended for managing to put greater resources into Essex Highways, including £37 million for highways maintenance. It makes a difference not only to fixing the infamous potholes that plague our roads across the country, but to road resurfacing and the management of assets such as the many bridges over the A12. With our extensive road network—one of the largest in the country—that funding needs to be maintained and sustained. Essex county council maintains more than 5,000 miles of roads; to put it in context, that is the distance from Witham to Gibraltar and then back to Witham and back to Gibraltar again, believe it or not. We also have more than 128,000 street lighting columns, more than 1,500 highway structures and a 4,000-mile footway network to maintain. It really adds up—it brings a new meaning to asset management.

The previous Government committed an extra £121 million to Essex through to 2034. The Minister will know that that money was originally from the High Speed 2 project; the last Government were very transparent about that. In her response, will she speak about funding in that area?

On 11 October, in answer to my written parliamentary question, the Minister stated:

“We will provide authorities with funding to help them fix up to one million more potholes across England in each year of this parliament.”

Can the Minister confirm whether that funding goes above and beyond the funds announced by the previous Government? Can she give an indication how much of that resource will be provided to Essex county council? I recognise that she cannot get into specifics, but even an illustration would be helpful.

I also understand from page 129 of the Labour party manifesto that that commitment will be funded by deferring the £320 million A27 Arundel bypass scheme, freeing up £65 million a year. However, in the “Fixing the foundations” paper, which was published at the end of July and presented by the Chancellor to Parliament, the Treasury announced that the A27 scheme was being cancelled but gave no indication of those funds being diverted to local potholes or road maintenance. Some clarification from the Minister would be greatly helpful, as she announced a commitment in that parliamentary answer.

I am sure the Minister is well and truly briefed on the lower Thames crossing scheme, a significant scheme that we have been championing for a while now. The decision to defer the scheme has caused frustration and confusion, particularly for businesses. The scheme will unlock billions of pounds of growth, as I know the Minister is aware, as well as housing and jobs along the Thames estuary and beyond. It will increase capacity, thereby easing congestion on the infamous Dartford crossing, where a battle has been under way for many years since the toll booths were removed. The fact of the matter is that our roads are busy. Businesses need certainty to invest, which is why the routeing scheme is important. We want to see a revolution in skills, job development and apprenticeships, and the scheme will help local SMEs. I would be very grateful for any comment the Minister can make.

We also have the A127 corridor, on which I know Essex county council will be making representations, and work is being done in Chelmsford on the Army and Navy sustainable transport package. These are important areas on which I would like responses from the Minister.

Essex has benefited from new investment in highways in recent years. We are a very buoyant county: we stand up and get on, and we are net contributors to the Treasury. We had a strong focus from the previous Government on bringing forward key strategic schemes to boost investment, jobs and growth. I look to the Minister, at this early stage in her ministerial role, to respond to my questions and maintain a commitment to dialogue in these areas. We will be back in this Chamber for more debates, and I will be glad to bring representatives from Essex to meet the Minister and her officials and discuss these schemes further.

16:35

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Lilian Greenwood)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger. I congratulate the right hon. Member for Witham (Priti Patel) on securing today’s debate on funding for Essex Highways; I thank her for the many points she made and questions she asked. I am not sure that I will be able to answer them all to her satisfaction, but I remain open to a continuing dialogue. Having read her correspondence on these issues over the past three months, I know that she is a long-standing campaigner for investment in transport infrastructure, both in her constituency and across Essex. She is rightly proud of the contribution that her county makes to the UK economy and its strong international trading links.

Rebuilding Britain means modernising our transport infrastructure. As the right hon. Lady recognises, our road network is plagued by long-promised projects that have not been delivered. The potholes cratering our roads are a very visible sign of decline. This Government will maintain and renew our road network and ensure that it serves all users, remains safe and tackles congestion. I know that that is what her constituents and businesses want.

However, the financial inheritance that this Government have received is extremely challenging. The previous Administration left us a £22 billion public spending gap in this year alone, of which £2.9 billion is unfunded transport commitments. Those are things that were promised to which there was no funding stream attached. I can see that communities up and down the country have been given hope for new transport infrastructure, where there were no plans or funds to deliver them. I say here today that this Government will not make that mistake. We have to rebuild our economic foundations while restoring transparency and public trust.

[Priti Patel]

If I may respectfully say so, we are not here to do partisan politics. Importantly, these schemes were funded by the previous Government. They have been under development for more than 10 years. They are subject to planning and, effectively, judicial review, particularly on the A12. It is not good enough to say that there is a black hole. Within the Department, these schemes were funded. There was investment, and these schemes are shovel-ready.

The question is what is going to happen to these future schemes. If the Government want to cancel them, they should just tell us that they will be cancelled. The reality is that all the work has been done in the Department. I say respectfully that it would be really useful, although it might not happen today, to get a proper update on the status of the A12 and A120 projects, even from officials.

[Lilian Greenwood]

My point was to set out the context within which I will comment on some of the specifics that the right hon. Lady asks about. Looking across the Department at the commitments the previous Government made on roads and rail, there were undoubtedly over-commitments. Promises were given that could not be fulfilled. That is why we are having to look again, and it is why on 30 July the Secretary of State for Transport said that she was commissioning a review of the Department’s capital spend portfolio. That review, which will look across the totality of our capital schemes on rail and road, will support the development of our new long-term strategy for transport: developing a modern and integrated network with people at its heart, ensuring that transport infrastructure can be delivered efficiently and on time.

Measured by length, local roads form the majority of our country’s road network. This Government take the condition of local roads very seriously and are committed to maintaining and renewing the local road network. The Department allocates funding, which is not ringfenced, to local highways authorities so that they can prioritise spend based on their local knowledge and circumstances.

The Department for Transport will provide Essex county council with £34.5 million during the 2024-25 financial year to enable it to carry out its maintenance responsibilities for local roads in the area. I would love to be able to give the right hon. Lady a commitment, but funding for future years is a matter for the spending review, as she knows. However, I understand the importance of ensuring that local roads are well maintained.

In addition, we will provide local authorities with funding to help them to fix up to 1 million additional potholes across England in each year of this Parliament; we have made that commitment. My officials are in regular contact with the council to help it to develop and manage its schemes within the major road network and large local majors programme. The Department is currently assessing the full business case for the A127/A130 Fairglen interchange scheme and is reviewing the strategic outline case for the A127 corridor improvements, on which we have asked for further information to help with our assessment. We also stand ready to provide assistance, as and when needed, as the council develops a full business case for the Army and Navy sustainable transport package. Of course, all future decisions on the major road network schemes are subject to the current spending review and the Department’s capital review.

The strategic road network of our motorways and main A roads encompasses the roads that are most important for people to get around the country. Within the east of England, the A12 is one of the busiest roads and provides the strategic road network with its main south-west/north-east road through Essex and Suffolk, connecting Ipswich and places in the right hon. Lady’s constituency to London and the M25. It provides a strategic connection for the ports of Harwich and Felixstowe and nearby Stansted airport, which is important for both passengers and freight, as she says.

The section between the Boreham interchange in Chelmsford at junction 19 and the Marks Tey interchange at junction 25 carries high volumes of traffic, with up to 90,000 vehicles every day. Because of the important freight connections, especially to Felixstowe and Harwich, heavy goods vehicles make up between 9% and 12% of the traffic on this section—almost double the national figure of 5% on most routes. That section of the A12 is also an important commuter route, so I understand why the right hon. Lady is so passionate about the improvements that she seeks.

The resulting congestion leads to delays and means that a driver’s average speed during the morning commute is particularly slow in both directions for a dual-carriageway A road of its kind. To tackle that, the A12 Chelmsford to A120 road improvement scheme was announced in the second road investment strategy published in March 2020. The scheme proposes to widen the A12 to three lanes between junction 19 north of Chelmsford and the junction 25 A120 interchange with the aim of improving safety, reducing congestion and providing safer alternative routes away from the A12 for cyclists, walkers and horse riders.

I recognise the level of support for this scheme and its importance to the right hon. Lady’s constituents and those of her colleagues. The hon. Member for Chelmsford (Marie Goldman) rightly highlighted her own concerns. However, as I noted earlier, the financial inheritance that the Government have received is extremely challenging. The A12 Chelmsford to A120 scheme alongside other future road projects is being considered as part of the Department’s capital review, which will inform the upcoming spending review. As the right hon. Member for Witham knows, major investment decisions are a matter for the spending review, and at this stage I am not in a position to give assurances about individual schemes. I know that that is frustrating for her—it is somewhat frustrating for me—but I do understand the arguments that she puts forward.

The A120 is also an important strategic route in the east of England. Commuters, freight, residents and businesses currently suffer daily lengthy delays on this single-carriageway road. Proposals for improving this stretch of road were initially developed by Essex county council, and a scheme to improve the A120 between Braintree and the A12 was identified in the second road investment strategy as part of a pipeline of schemes considered for possible delivery in the third road investment strategy. However, in March 2023, the then Secretary of State for Transport announced that, owing to financial headwinds, schemes originally earmarked as potential candidates for the third road investment strategy would be considered for inclusion in the fourth road investment strategy, which is beyond 2030. I know that that will not have been welcome news; nevertheless, those schemes remain in development for possible future funding.

The right hon. Lady touched on issues around the lower Thames crossing, but as there is a live planning application, she will know that it would not be appropriate for me to comment. The deadline for the decision has been extended to allow time for the application to be considered further, including any decisions made as part of the upcoming spending review.

Despite the difficult financial inheritance, I can assure the right hon. Member and her colleagues that my Department is committed to putting transport at the heart of mission-driven government. As she understands, growth is vital. Transport is a vital enabler, not just for growth but for our wider ambitions, including health, road safety and better links. I am determined that we will build transport infrastructure that drives economic growth, improves opportunities in every part of the country and delivers value for money for taxpayers. I am sure that I have the right hon. Member’s support in that ambition, which requires a fundamental reset in how we approach capital projects. We need public trust, industry confidence and Government integrity at the heart of it; we do not want to make promises that we cannot keep.

I thank the right hon. Member again for securing this debate. As she recognises, transport is a vital enabler of jobs, housing and opportunities for growth. I am sure that we share the desire to see those things for Witham, for Essex and indeed for the whole country.

Question put and agreed to.

Driving Test Availability

Wednesday 16th October 2024 Westminster Hall

16:46

[Peter Swallow (Bracknell) (Lab)]

I beg to move,

That this House has considered the availability of driving tests.

It is an honour to serve under you as Chair, Sir Roger.

Driving test delays are a source of misery, anger and lost opportunity across my constituency and the country. Today a new learner will have to wait on average four and a half months for a driving test, which is more than double the wait nine years ago and nearly 50% higher than four years ago. New learners in my constituency must wait on average over five months for their test. Those are some of the worst waiting times in the country, and they have more than tripled since records began in 2015. That is five months during which my constituents’ travel, and therefore their ambitions, are severely restricted. Hon. Members will remember vividly the great feeling of liberation when getting behind the wheel for the first time after passing our driving tests. Today, that rite of passage, instead of a moment of great excitement, is a source of punishing expense, confusion and misery for too many of my constituents.

Take, for example, my constituent Molly, who is having to pay to do her theory again because, like the majority of drivers, she failed her first practical, and now must wait another five months to take a test. I confess that I too did not pass my driving test the first time—a fact that my partner, who did pass first time, always likes to remind me whenever I offer backseat commentary on his handling of Bracknell’s many roundabouts—but what was for me a source of slight irritation is to Molly a significant logistical hurdle with real-world costs. Having struggled to book her test the first time, she now needs to go through the whole long process again. She faces paying continued expenses to keep up lessons, using public transport to get around and possibly retaking her theory simply because it has reached its two-year limit.

Common also are stories like that of Therese, who, unable to find a test for her son for six months, booked him a test in Wales, which involved a costly round trip and an overnight stay, all just to get a test sorted in a reasonable timeframe. Other constituents have contacted me who have gone as far afield as the Isle of Wight and Aberdeen to get tests. Aberdeen is 500 miles from my constituency. When even simple systems like the provision of driving exams break down, inequalities deepen and opportunities dry up. Young people in my area are now seeing their career aspirations and their education take a hit as they look at a half-year delay before they can gain the independence of driving.

There has been national and regional coverage of this story for years, since the 2020 spike in driving test demand, yet the previous Conservative Government failed to get a grip of the crisis. On the one hand, they talked a big game, asking examiners to work ever-longer hours in an ever-exhausting push for short-term solutions—then on the other, they blamed examiners for striking over pay and conditions. What did that fiddling around at the edges get us? Today, waiting lists are more than double where they were in August 2020 and young learners are exposed to more vicious test touting than at any time since.

It is true that the DVSA responded to the immediate spike in 2020 by adding 1,000 more test slots and, over the year 2022-23, cancelling the accounts of more than 600 fake businesses abusing its service to block-book test slots just to sell them on, yet driving test centres in the year to March 2024 also cancelled more than 68,000 tests due to illness and industrial action. Driving instructors in my constituency tell me that that is often last minute and, due to the delays, pushes students back months. An increasing number of students are turning to the black market to get hold of tests, exposing themselves to fraud, abuse and spiralling hidden costs as test touters continue to exploit multiple flaws in the booking system to fuel their exploitative business models.

[David Williams (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend talked about driving instructors, and there is also a significant backlog in the driving tests required to qualify as a driving instructor. Does he agree that it is important that we look to address that backlog as well?

[Peter Swallow]

Absolutely. I have also spoken to businesses in my constituency that have highlighted the huge difficulties with getting tests for driving larger minivans and lorries. This debate is about not just bog- standard driving tests to get on the road, although that is a significant issue, but the whole system-wide problem.

Examiner illness is not something that the Conservative party can be blamed for, but whether it was striking doctors, nurses, train drivers or driving test examiners, the Conservative legacy is one of pushing workers to the brink then denying responsibility when industrial action is the inevitable result. I heard from my constituent Chris, a driving instructor, who explained how the local community of instructors are at their wits’ end over the issue, and feel powerless to stop students turning to the black market to book tests.

Driving examiners in Bracknell are getting up before 6 am on a Monday morning, when local centres release a week’s worth of tests, and by 6.02 am every single slot is gone. Those tests are six months away, yet greedy and unscrupulous test touters are using bots and fake business accounts to block-book those sessions and sell them on at ludicrous premiums. My constituents are scraping together hundreds of pounds to pay double or triple the test price only to have their details cloned, and these black market operators then use them to squeeze others out of the market. Meanwhile, some learners are, more innocently, paying big fees to apps and websites that simply trawl the DVSA database and spot cancelled tests for drivers to book at the last minute, which has fuelled understandable concerns. The drivers are showing up to tests underprepared, winging it in the hope that they just about pass, rather than waiting five months to take a test when they are properly ready.

I urge the Minister to set out what steps can be taken to end this financial abuse. The practice of test touting is against DVSA policy, but what more can we do to end it all together? Has the Minister considered whether the practice of reselling driving tests for profit can be made illegal—in line with our plans to tackle ticket touting—or can the system be fixed so that only legitimate driving instructors are able to transfer tests between their students?

Learner drivers pushed into taking their tests early by a broken system are more likely to fail, and therefore more likely to need to book another test, thereby further fuelling pressure on test centres and pushing up demand. What more can we do to ensure that more learners pass first time, unlike me? Will the Minister also ask the DVSA to investigate opening a test centre in my constituency? It sits in a desert of driving test provision between the M3 and M4. The nearest test centres to Bracknell are Reading and Farnborough. How can it be practical that a town of more than 120,000 people is not served by its own test centre?

If I may, I will touch on the connected subject of car insurance. For many young people, the financial pressure of becoming a new driver does not abate when they have finally managed to book and then pass their test. Next comes a hefty bill for car insurance. It is perfectly reasonable for younger and otherwise less experienced drivers to be charged more for car insurance, as statistically they are more likely to have an accident, but too many of my constituents are paying far more than is reasonable. Car insurance premiums have shot up by 21% since June 2022. This is not just an issue for young people in my constituency; I have also been contacted by older drivers, with many years’ experience on the road, who are being priced out of the market all together. I would therefore like to take this opportunity to welcome the action taken by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Transport today to launch a new taskforce to address that pressing matter.

The struggles faced by my constituents and by learner drivers across the country represent a brake on our national productivity and an unbearable frustration to our young people who, in understandable desperation, are exposing themselves to fraud and financial abuse at the hands of bad actors cynically exploiting this situation.

[Adam Jogee (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Lab)]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way, which is a nice thing to be able to say from the Back Benches here. He raises an important point and as he touches on insurance, I wonder whether I can bring in the issue of inadequate public transport, particularly in Madeley and in Betley in Newcastle-under-Lyme. I increasingly receive letters and emails from people who see their ability to secure a test after they have failed the first one now being pushed further and further away. The relevant period is rather like the five months that my hon. Friend refers to, but there is a double whammy because of the lack of any viable, meaningful, and affordable public transport, particularly in Madeley and Betley. Without that, and with the pressures of available driving tests being pushed further and further away, many of my constituents, like those in Bracknell, are left at breaking point.

[Peter Swallow]

That is a fantastic point, and perhaps another day I could opine on our train links, which have not improved since the 1970s. That, I fear, is a debate for another day, but my hon. Friend’s point is an excellent one. Not only young people are affected, but many young people look to passing their driving test to give them a real sense of liberation and freedom. That is particularly true in communities where public transport, after 14 years of Conservative Government, is not where it should be. It therefore must absolutely be the priority of this Government to improve transport connectivity for all communities and, in particular, rural and semi-rural communities. It is clear that this Government must be—and are—on the side of the driver. For that reason, I urge the Minister to make real headway on this really important issue.

This situation cannot continue. After years of chaos under the Conservatives, this Government have inherited a broken test system and must now fix another Tory mess. All the while, my constituents face unacceptable waits and undue stress. Passing the driving test should be a moment of great joy and freedom but, for too many, the journey to passing has become a one-way trip to frustration and misery.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Sir Roger Gale (in the Chair)]

Order. Before we proceed, let me first point out that I am going to call those who have submitted letters. Not every Member present and not every Member rising has written in. I have to give priority to those who have submitted an application to participate in the debate first. The second point I have to make, sadly, is that this debate is very time limited indeed. I am going to have to impose a time limit of three minutes and I may have to reduce that.

17:00

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I commend the hon. Member for Bracknell (Peter Swallow) for setting the scene. He is right to say that the issue of driving licences and the availability of driving tests is not specific to his constituency. It is an issue for the whole of the United Kingdom. I am very pleased to see the Minister in her place; I look forward to her contribution.

Since the pandemic, there are still some areas of the United Kingdom suffering from increasingly long waiting times. Northern Ireland is not the responsibility of the Minister, to be fair, but since it adds to this debate, I want to make a contribution. The situation has improved only recently. It is good to be here to give the Northern Ireland perspective.

I reiterate and endorse the comments that the hon. Member for Bracknell made about car insurance. My hon. Friend the Member for Upper Bann (Carla Lockhart) introduced a debate in the previous Parliament on that issue. Some of my constituents who have just got their first car and applied for insurance have had quotes of between £4,000 and £5,000. For some, it is four times the value of their car. That is what the insurance is just to get them on the road. The hon. Member for Bracknell was right to raise that issue.

Figures released by the Department for Transport state that learner drivers face a wait of at least four months for their test—double the length of delays before the covid pandemic. It has also been said that it is largely due to the fact that appointments are released on a 24-week rolling basis. In Northern Ireland, there were increasingly long delays, especially over the summer months. One of my staff members waited four and a half months for a test date in her local area, just down the road from us. Cancellations are sparse due to the difficulty of getting a test to begin with.

There are also concerns about the validity of the theory test, which can run out if the driving test is taken too late. In Northern Ireland, once a theory test is passed, there are two years until it is out of date. Someone can apply for a driving test, but might not get one first time round. They might have to wait for another test and all of a sudden the theory test is out of date and they have to start the whole process again. Many in Northern Ireland do not consider starting practical lessons until they have passed their theory test, so it is important that practical test backlogs are dealt with to ensure that theory tests do not run out and so that learner drivers do not have to resit them.

There is a cost to all this. For young people specifically there could be a detriment to their learning. I am aware that in recent weeks and months some improvements have been made, but it is evident that for so many across the countries, in areas of mainland England and indeed Northern Ireland, the backlogs have to be addressed. I wish to ask the Minister whether she has had a chance to have any correspondence or contact with the Infrastructure Minister back home to discuss productive ways in which we can deal with backlogs for learner drivers.

17:02

[Helena Dollimore (Hastings and Rye) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell (Peter Swallow) for securing this debate on such an important issue. I speak for many Members across the House when I say what a pressing issue the lack of driving test availability is for so many in our constituencies. I have been contacted by many residents in Hastings and Rye who are trying to get driving tests, but face very long waits when they log on to the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency system.

The issue is having a big impact on many constituents. We have new parents hoping to get a driving test in time for the arrival of babies, people with caring responsibilities and also people who have a business need to secure a driving test. It is a really important issue that matters to many across our constituencies.

I welcome the Labour Government’s commitment to cutting the waiting times for driving tests and making that a key priority. It is great that the Secretary of State has met the chief executive of the DVLA to really grip the problem and make it clear that it is a key priority, because it is such a pressing issue for many across our constituencies. I want to make sure that I leave plenty of time for colleagues to speak in this important debate, so I will end my remarks there.

17:04

[Matt Rodda (Reading Central) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger. I commend my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell (Peter Swallow) for his excellent work on this important issue. I am also conscious of the time, so I will try to keep my remarks as brief as possible. I want to refer and underline some of the points made by my hon. Friend and other colleagues and also talk about the specific problems in Reading.

First, it is important to restate how important it is to learn to drive. It is a rite of passage and an opportunity for young people—and many others, as my hon. Friend the Member for Hastings and Rye (Helena Dollimore) pointed out—to gain extra mobility, but also potentially to gain economic benefits by opening up the opportunities of a wider range of jobs. That is hugely important. Even in areas such as Reading, where there is excellent public transport, there are many people who rely on a car to travel, quite understandably, and that provides extra mobility and access to a wider range of services and job opportunities.

The points that I would like to highlight regarding my own constituency really follow on from the points made by my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell, and things, in many cases, are even worse. There are 250,000 people in the Reading urban area—we are the second-biggest urban area in the south-east of England—and there is a very young population, with many young people seeking to learn to drive, yet serious backlogs have been developing in the past few years. Some of that is connected to the pandemic, but I am afraid that the previous Government appear to have mismanaged this important public service, and my constituents, and those of neighbouring MPs, are suffering as a result.

The issues of long waits and having to travel long distances are significant for many people in the Reading area. I have had constituents who have had to travel as far as—I cannot say Aberdeen—Cheshire, which is still a significant distance away, or East Anglia, and I have also heard of parents helping their son or daughter to book a test in Cornwall, during a family holiday there, because that was the only place that they could get a test.

Clearly, this situation is completely unacceptable, and it has been made worse by issues with the booking software. I have had a number of meetings with local driving instructors who urged me to raise that with the Minister, and I hope that more can be done. I appreciate that work is under way on this, and that officials in the Department are trying to tackle the problem, but there is some gaming of the system going on that is causing great pressure to many constituents, and indeed adding to the cost of getting a test.

To make matters even worse in my own area, the current test centre on Elgar Road South, which is well known in Reading, is due to close in the spring of 2025. There is a potential replacement, but we do not know where that is or when it will open. That is causing delays and a great deal of uncertainty for local residents—for young people and others—seeking to learn to drive. Reading residents face the prospect of having to drive to Basingstoke to take their tests. That is quite a significant journey and would add a great deal of cost and time to learning to drive and passing the test. I hope that the Minister will be able to offer an update on that. I realise that it is a commercial matter for the Department, but maybe she will be able to write to me with an update on the progress of the negotiations for a new test centre in the Reading area to serve this very large population of ours. Finally—I do appreciate the pressure on time— I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell again for securing this important debate.

17:07

[Amanda Martin (Portsmouth North) (Lab)]

Thank you, Sir Roger, for your chairmanship. It is a pleasure to speak in the debate, and I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell (Peter Swallow) for introducing it. During covid lockdowns, 850,000 tests were cancelled, and the service has been struggling ever since. The demand for driving tests currently outweighs availability. Since 2023—so for over 18 months—the average wait time for a driving test in Portsmouth has been stuck around 24 weeks, but in 2019, it was eight weeks, so that is an increase of 200%. As we have heard, the true figure may well be bigger, because people are logging on and seeing 24 weeks and no appointments, so they could be waiting for longer.

In the Portsmouth test centre, the pass rate is about 50%, so the average person is taking two tests and leaving at least a year to be test ready. That is causing huge financial and emotional impacts. In some cases, it impacts on people’s opportunities to go to work and live their lives. As we have heard, there is sometimes a need to retake their theory test.

While many people are experiencing worse—I know we are not the lowest in the table—it is not a race to the bottom. My constituents have written to me to describe their distress at being unable to book a test in a reasonable time, and at the extortionate prices levied by touts who are reselling them, using the bot software that we have heard about. Like others, I welcome and echo the sentiments expressed about the Transport Secretary’s willingness to tackle that as a key priority for the Labour Government.

Additional funding is required to tackle the enormous backlog in tests. That could be directed towards making additional driving test slots available, recruiting and retaining more examiners, and putting in place laws to stop those bot blockers. By doing that, we could improve the technology of the booking system to detect those problems, because the chief executive of the Driving and Vehicle Standards Agency, back in 2023, described the booking system as “end of life”. I would like to hear what we are able to do.

17:09

[Rosie Wrighting (Kettering) (Lab)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell (Peter Swallow) for securing this important debate on an issue that matters deeply to many of our constituents. The national waiting time for driving tests is about four and a half months, but during the summer in my constituency of Kettering, that rose to six months. Someone ready for their test in July might still be waiting to take it in January next year. I recently spoke to the chair of the Kettering district area Driving Instructors Association, who told me that his members were all saying the same thing. Both instructors and pupils are frustrated by the lack of tests available and how frequently they are cancelled. Driving test slots are released every Monday at 6 am, but my constituents have told me that by 6.10 am, they are all gone. They say that often some slots are booked and, as we have heard, advertised on social media for up to £250.

My constituents are trying to book their driving tests, not see Oasis. Between April 2023 and March this year, over 100,000 driving tests were cancelled, and 363 of those were at Kettering’s test centre. My constituents have told me that tests are regularly cancelled at a week’s notice, and some are cancelled as late as the day before. Many of us in the Chamber will remember how stressful learning to drive was and how nervous we were the day before our test. Those cancellations really amplify that. Pupils who are test ready then have to face their test being cancelled and the difficult choice of continuing to pay for lessons that they do not need or stopping and risking being rusty on the day of their test.

There is no doubt that learners across the UK are confused and angry. Many learners are young people who need a driving licence to access work opportunities. After the Tory cost of living crisis and the chaos we have inherited, it is just not fair that young people are not able to access the opportunities they need to get into work. Would the Minister outline for my constituents what work the Government are doing to boost the number of driving tests available for people in Kettering and across the UK, and to reduce the number of tests that are cancelled at the last minute? Let us steer our new Labour Government towards a future of accessible and reliable driving tests for all our constituents.

17:12

[Shaun Davies (Telford) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger, and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell (Peter Swallow) on securing this debate. It is good to see the Minister in her place. Skills, opportunities and job creation are at the top of my agenda as the Member of Parliament for Telford, and I know that for many in this Chamber, that will be the same for them.

The Government are doing a lot of work to improve skills and opportunities for jobs and qualifications in places like my constituency, but the role that transport plays in that process cannot be overstated. As of September 2024, the average waiting time for a driving test in the midlands and the south-west was more than 21 weeks, or around 5 months, which is the highest of any region in the country. As we have heard, that average does not include the countless people who cannot book a test in the first place or who are put off by the number of delays. The chronic shortage of driving tests disproportionately affects young people and those most in need of access to training and jobs.

There are many parts of the country where having to wait months upon months for a driving test, or not getting one at all, is an insurmountable problem for young people because opportunities to walk or catch public transport simply do not exist. For young people in places like mine, the difference between waiting one month or one year for a driving test could mean not getting the qualification at their local college, or not being able to do the job that they have applied for and have been successful in obtaining, or it could mean worse outcomes for their families. I conducted a survey in my constituency on this issue, and over 40% of the constituents who responded said that they have had to book a driving test before they have taken a single driving lesson, which puts a huge amount of pressure on those young people. Around 50% of those who completed my survey said that the delays in booking a test made it less likely that they would start to learn to drive in the first place. It is a barrier to development, and it is a barrier to getting to work.

Unless this issue is addressed, the problem is only going to get worse. We know from the Government that economic growth is quite rightly the No. 1 mission, but breaking down barriers to opportunity should also be a priority. Getting a grip of the issue will impact both of those missions, and I ask the Minister whether she will create a taskforce so that she can hold these officials to account for improvement on this because, ultimately, it is a barrier to opportunity and employment for our young people.

17:15

[Kevin McKenna (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger. I would like to thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell (Peter Swallow) for enabling the debate to happen, and everyone who has raised issues today. I will not add too much to the detail of what people have said already, but I will talk a bit about the impacts on my constituents.

I also need to declare an interest. I have reached 50 years of age without learning to drive, but changes to my circumstances at the start of July mean that there is now good reason and a strong imperative to do so. When I researched it over the summer for myself and for my husband, it became very clear that it was not an easy and immediate option for either of us. That was not a surprise, however, given the amount of messages already in my inbox.

By way of an example, a constituent of mine, Jai, came to my surgery on behalf of his daughter, who is desperate to start a career as a police officer—a career that we deeply need in constituencies across the country. She cannot start the job because she needs to be able to drive; she will be working in shifts. All she could find was a driving test months down the line in Birmingham, which is 150 miles away. She is one of the luckier constituents, in that she could actually find one.

My constituency has some significant areas of deprivation. I do not know, Sir Roger, whether you have been looking at the data packs produced by the Thames Estuary growth board this week, but they show some significant transport blackspots in my constituency and in yours. They are often associated with the areas of deepest deprivation, where it takes hours to get to centres for employment. Although we need to improve public transport and accessibility routes, it will take time. Furthermore, in constituencies with rural areas such as mine and those of many others in the room, we will always need to drive cars—it is fundamental.

There have been improvements to the capacity and number of tests and of people carrying them out, but I want to know how sustainable that is and what the plan is for sustainability. I want to know what has been learned to see how we could do things differently in the future to make sure that we do not get into this mess again. There is also the issue of blatant and obvious ticket touting. The technology now available with bots and other online grifters is turning a public service into a way to make money in a piratical way. What are the lessons for other implementations of digital services by the Government as, increasingly, that is the way services will be delivered?

[Sir Roger Gale (in the Chair)]

Jas Athwal, you are on the list but you are not rising. Do you not wish to speak?

[Jas Athwal (Ilford South) (Lab)]

Thank you, Sir Roger. I cannot speak because I have not made my maiden speech. I will make an intervention very shortly, thank you.

17:18

[Ms Julie Minns (Carlisle) (Lab)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger. It is a number of decades since I took my driving test in my constituency of Carlisle, and I was therefore very grateful to a constituent who recently attended my advice surgery to highlight the issues his business—he is a driving instructor—faced in securing driving tests in the Carlisle area. He went further and suggested a couple of potential measures that could be taken. I would be grateful if the Minister could perhaps comment on them in her closing remarks.

In Carlisle, we are looking at a wait time of approaching five months for a test at the Carlisle test centre. Just up the road in Dumfries, the wait is just over a month. My constituent asks, I feel very reasonably, why there cannot be greater flexibility in moving test assessors around neighbouring test centres. That seems very sensible. Similarly, I welcome the steps that have been taken to counter the bots that are snapping up the tests at great pace, but my constituent tells me that, in his case, two out of three of his computers have had their IP addresses blocked. When he contacts the DVSA to ask for them to be unblocked, the response is less than adequate. It would help legitimate businesses if they felt that the DVSA was responding promptly to their concerns.

[Jas Athwal]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell (Peter Swallow) for securing such an important debate. Does my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle (Ms Minns) agree that the elephant in the room is the industrial-scale fraud going on? In Carlisle, it takes five months to get a driving test. Similarly, in Ilford South, in east London, it takes about six months. But I rang a local driving instructor who has raised this issue with me, and I could get four tests in Dorchester, seven in Cheltenham, eight in Bromley and three in Erith. If I did not want to travel, I could pay a premium rate of £300 and it could be done at the local test centre 50 yards from my house. That is something we need to address.

[Ms Minns]

I entirely concur with my hon. Friend’s remarks. It is unacceptable that so many people are waiting so many months for their driving tests. In areas such as mine where there is little or no public transport, the economic impact of not being able to work is considerable. To help our Government, the DVSA could look at recording, when people are waiting for tests, whether they are required to drive for their job. That data is not currently captured, and it would be extremely beneficial to capture it.

On a related point, the DVLA is experiencing increasing delays in carrying out medical assessments on people who, for whatever reason, are temporarily unable to drive. One of my constituents has been waiting over 18 months for a routine medical assessment after having a stroke. That was a number of months after his own doctor had said he was now able to drive. I would be grateful if the Minister addressed that issue in her remarks.

17:22

[Mr Paul Kohler (Wimbledon) (LD)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Sir Roger. I congratulate the hon. Member for Bracknell (Peter Swallow) on securing the debate. He and the other speakers have made excellent points.

As we have heard from Members across the House, it is taking far too long to secure a driving test, with centres fully booked up months in advance. Although the problem was exacerbated by covid, waiting lists were growing long before the pandemic, with 26 test centres axed since 2015. Yes, the lockdown made things worse, but things are still not improving and more should have been done by the previous Government to address the backlog.

As a result of the insufficient testing capacity within the system, as we have heard, a black market has arisen, with individuals forced to compete with bots to book the precious few slots available the moment they come online. My good friend Dino Muir, a driving instructor who covers Wimbledon, tells me that an increasing number of people are inevitably turning to those unscrupulous profiteers to beat the queues, and pay an extortionate price as a consequence. According to recent data from the RAC, people are paying over three times the normal price to book a driving test on the black market.

The situation is not limited to personal vehicles. My constituent George, a young junior doctor, told me yesterday of a friend of his, a newly trained paramedic, having to wait four months to take the C1 driving test that he needs to drive an ambulance. Data from my party recently revealed over 700 NHS staff across the country who, like George’s friend, are waiting to take that test. That is simply unacceptable. Providing driving tests in a timely manner should not be beyond any Government. Yes, they have inherited a failing system, but they now need to sort it out as these delays are affecting people’s lives and, as we have heard, damaging our economy.

In conclusion, I simply ask the Minister—I hope she knows that I hold her in high regard—what she is going to do to clear this backlog. Will more tests be made available, and will the Government do more to stop the bots booking up all the available slots? Urgent action is needed and I look forward to hearing her response.

17:24

[Greg Smith (Mid Buckinghamshire) (Con)]

Sir Roger, it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship today and I, too, congratulate the hon. Member for Bracknell (Peter Swallow) on securing this important debate.

Like other Members who have spoken this afternoon, I see the impact of this issue every week in my own inbox. Indeed, I saw it in the last Parliament, during the four and a half years that I spent on the Transport Committee, examining this issue as it evolved, particularly through the pandemic and the post-pandemic period.

Teenagers wait for months and sometimes over a year to get a driving test. People who have come to the United Kingdom to work also find themselves stuck in limbo, waiting for a test. I see the worrying knock-on effects for social and economic mobility for young people, particularly in rural areas such as mine in Mid Buckinghamshire, where freedom and opportunity very often come with the keys to a car and the ability to drive it.

As other Members have already mentioned, in rural areas public transport is often not a viable option for many journeys. Young people can be locked out of opportunities, even those within short distances of their own homes. Despite being qualified, young tradespeople—plumbers, electricians, carpenters and builders—cannot do their job without a car or a van. That creates a shortage in the local area, which in turn creates inflation for homeowners who cannot source labour for weeks or even months. It is not just individuals who suffer. I also see the impact on communities of young people and others who are stuck at home, unable to support elderly relatives and family members who require care. In some cases, they are unable to respond to a family emergency that could be a matter of life and death.

It is simply not tenable to stand by and let the situation continue, not when, as the RAC reports, unofficial websites are exploiting learner drivers to the tune of hundreds of pounds, which is more than three or four times the cost of an official DVSA booking. Other third parties are profiting from the backlog through cancellation alert schemes and apps that charge users a one-off fee to receive alerts every time a slot becomes available sooner than their original test booking. Sign-up fees can set drivers back nearly twice the amount of an official test, with VIP action and VIP packages. This problem requires very firm action.

As Government Members have criticised the previous Government, I will mention the fact that post-pandemic the Conservative Government took clear action. By the end of 2022, we had opened up nearly 10% more driving tests every week than had been the case before the pandemic, but despite the DVSA making 1 million extra tests available since the pandemic—1 million extra tests—waiting times have remained stubbornly high. That is partly because of the growing economy that the new Government have inherited and the demand that that growth has created for new tests—those are not my words, but the words of the chief executive of the DVSA.

A huge amount of work needs to be done, but I am concerned that we have seen frighteningly little urgency from the new Government to sort the problem out. Just last week at transport questions, the Secretary of State for Transport responded to a question about the crisis by suggesting that examiners would simply be deployed to areas with higher waiting times from areas with lower waiting times. If that is the extent of this Government’s plan—to move examiners around like a game of whack-a-mole—the backlogs will be going nowhere. We need to increase capacity, but according to the DVSA one of the main contributing factors to the lack of tests is “sustained industrial action”, which must be combated head-on.

Post-covid, the Passport Office showed the way: within two years of the pandemic finishing, thanks to a great new system and brilliant leadership, its backlog was smashed. There is hope that if the right measures are put in place and the Government really put their mind to it, these problems are not intractable and can indeed be solved.

[Shaun Davies]

Some of this has also been a long time coming. In Telford, for example, there are just two driving test assessors for the whole of the borough, which serves most of Shropshire—a population of about half a million. The previous Government should have done succession planning on driving test assessors and recruited more of them. Why did they not do so?

[Greg Smith]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his intervention. As I stressed, the pandemic blew a hole—it did so in virtually every walk of life—in the availability of driving tests. We got a million extra tests in place. Did every single test centre have exactly the resource it needed? The answer is clearly no. In the spirit of the debate, I am perfectly happily to accept that. I was on the Transport Committee for four and a half years, serving for some of that time alongside the now Minister, and we saw these problems emerging.

Governments are not able to solve every problem. The Minister will be happy to admit that she will not be able to solve every problem that comes across her desk but to solve the backlog that still persists from the pandemic as well as the growing demand for driving tests—that is not just my analysis; the DVSA acknowledges that there is a growing demand—greater resource is required and the whole system must be scaled up.

Where does this issue sit on the Minister’s priority list? Is it a matter of urgency for the new Government? Motorists up and down the country want to get their driving licences so that they can get on in life, access opportunities, achieve freedom and get the pleasure of driving in the United Kingdom. Or will this issue fall down the priority list and not get the action that thousands of people up and down this land want and deserve?

17:31

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport (Lilian Greenwood)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell (Peter Swallow) on securing this debate and setting out so clearly the challenges his constituents face; I also thank all hon. Members who have contributed on behalf of learners and driving instructors in their constituencies. We heard compelling contributions from the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon), my hon. Friends the Members for Hastings and Rye (Helena Dollimore), Reading Central (Matt Rodda), Portsmouth North (Amanda Martin), Kettering (Rosie Wrighting), Telford (Shaun Davies), Sittingbourne and Sheppey (Kevin McKenna), Carlisle (Ms Minns), the hon. Member for Wimbledon (Mr Kohler) and the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Mid Buckinghamshire (Greg Smith).

A full driving licence can give the holder so many opportunities. Drivers can access education and jobs. I recognise that being unable to book a test can hold people back, and that is unacceptable because we want to boost growth and opportunities. Driving gives freedoms to so many people up and down the country, although I agree wholeheartedly with my hon. Friend the Member for Newcastle-under-Lyme (Adam Jogee) that we need much better public transport, too, to give young people a choice of transport options. Not everyone is able to drive.

Nearly everyone who has a full driving licence will have a story about when they learned to drive and took their test. It is part of our culture and a rite of passage. However, the current situation for many learners in this country is simply unacceptable. That includes Molly, the constituent of my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell, and many others who have been referenced in this debate. Some have to travel long distances for a test or pay extra to try to get to the front of the queue. It takes far too long for those who are ready to take their driving test to book that practical test appointment. Drivers who are ready to pass should be able to take a test quickly and easily without paying more or travelling far. This issue is a priority that the Secretary of State and I take seriously. Members will recall that the Secretary of State made visiting DVSA in Bristol to discuss solutions an early priority. Work is ongoing and, yes, we are determined to solve it.

Practical test waiting times remain high because of increased demand. That demand has translated into the longest waiting times for driving tests in many years despite the DVSA making available a near-record 2 million tests last year. That pent-up demand has also led to a change in customer behaviour: the scramble for bookings often leads to undesirable outcomes. People book tests miles away from where they live just to get a test on the system in the hope of changing it for one closer to home at a later date. They cannot always do that, and sometimes they end up taking a test a long way from home, as hon. Friends have described. This change in booking behaviour prevents those ready to take their test from booking at their nearest test centre, where waiting times have gone up. As well as being inconvenient, so-called test tourism has an environmental impact.

An even bigger issue is learners taking a test before they are ready to pass. That seriously reduces their chances of passing, so they need to take a second and maybe even a third or fourth test. That creates extra demand and adds to the issue that DVSA is working so hard to resolve. It also creates potentially unacceptable additional risks for driving examiners and the public. Longer waiting times for a driving test also result in learners paying significantly more than the test fee to unscrupulous opportunists who are preying on them and taking advantage of their need to take a test as soon as they can.

In January 2023, DVSA changed its booking service terms and conditions to prevent anyone selling tests at a profit. Since then, DVSA has issued 313 warnings, 766 suspensions and closed 705 business accounts for misuse of its booking service. But there is more to do. All the while, that leaves people who are ready to pass with fewer options and a longer wait. We want learners who are ready to pass to be able to take their test quickly and easily at a convenient location. We do not want them to feel the need to make difficult decisions and compromises when taking a practical test.

We need concrete measures that will make a real difference. That is why we have asked the DVSA to look at how its tests are booked and managed. We want a test booking system that supports learners to plan the learning-to-drive process properly, that gives them the confidence that they will be able to get a test when they need one, that is easy to use and protects them from being ripped off.

We are working hard on all those measures. In the meantime, DVSA has been working hard to make more tests available. At any given time, around half a million tests are booked on the system. As a result of DVSA efforts to increase capacity, around 90,000 tests are available within a 24-week booking window, but more needs to be done. DVSA has recruited and is training 250 new driving examiners this year, and is working to recruit and train another 200, focusing on areas where demand is highest. Of course, we also need to retain those driving examiners. Previous poor industrial relations will not have helped in that regard.

If we are successful in recruiting those 450, that will be 20% more examiners overall, and a much-needed boost to test capacity for those learning to drive. I can update my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell on driving examiner numbers in his nearest test centres. In Slough, there are currently six. Based on our latest recruitment campaign, we are aiming to recruit four, to take that to 10. In Reading, there are two. There is one new entrant driving examiner awaiting a training course. The aim is to recruit a further five. In Farnborough, there are nine; the DVSA is aiming to recruit a further three to take that to 12. If we are successful in doing that, it will obviously make a big difference.

On top of that, the DVSA is continuing to conduct tests outside regular hours, including at weekends and on public holidays, and buying back annual leave from driving examiners. I cannot remember which hon. Friend asked me, but driving examiners do travel to other test centres with higher waiting times, to try to bring them down. Of course, I recognise that is not the long-term answer.

DVSA’s Ready to Pass? campaign supports learner drivers by offering free resources to assess their test readiness and encourage them to take more lessons, if required. When the pass rate is less than 50%, we know that too many people are taking the test a bit too speculatively, when they should be doing it when they are ready. I completely understand how this has come about, with people booking a test before they have even started taking any lessons. We also know that learners who undertake a mock test are far more likely to pass their test, so I urge hon. Members to direct their constituents to the Ready to Pass? campaign and its very useful advice.

It is probably outside the scope of today’s debate, but if my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle would like to pass on the details of her constituent who is facing a delay in renewing their licence and is waiting for medical tests, I will happily look into it.

[Jim Shannon]

I had a question about whether the Minister has had contact with the Minister for Infrastructure in the Northern Ireland Assembly to exchange ideas on how best to address these things together.

[Lilian Greenwood]

No debate would be complete without an intervention from the hon. Member. I have not yet had the opportunity to meet his colleague to discuss this issue, but I would be very willing to do so.

That reminds me that I wanted to respond to the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Reading Central. The DVSA is aware that the landlord of the current driving test centre in Reading has been granted planning permission to redevelop the site, which he referred to. The DVSA has identified a new location. It is in the early stages of negotiations, but it will confirm the new location as soon as it is able. I can assure my hon. Friend that I will continue to raise this point in my regular meetings with the chief executive of the DVSA.

In conclusion, the Department for Transport and the DVSA recognise the impact that long driving test waiting times are having on learner drivers and driving instructors. It is our priority to reduce driving test waiting times while upholding road safety standards. We want everyone to enjoy a lifetime of safe, sustainable driving. Finally, I wish Molly, the constituent of my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell, very best wishes when she gets the opportunity to take her test. I am sure we all hope that she passes the second time.

17:42

[Peter Swallow]

I start by thanking the Minister for the incredibly constructive way in which she has approached this debate and responded to the wide-ranging and serious issues raised by Members. It is heartening to hear her reiteration that this is a priority for the new Labour Government. That is demonstrated by the Secretary of State’s meeting with the CEO of the DVSA at such an early stage. I am grateful that Ministers have asked the DVSA to look at what more can be done to tackle test touts, and I welcome further updates in due course on this. Test touts are taking advantage, and we must crack down on them.

I also thank the Minister for updating us on the situation of employing more driving examiners, which will be very welcome indeed for my constituents. However, I would tempt her once again to examine opening a new test centre in Bracknell; even better than having more driving examiners would be having another place to put them. That would be really wonderful.

I thank hon. Members across the House for taking part in this debate. We heard about constituents affected across the country, from Strangford to Hastings and Rye, Reading Central, Portsmouth North, Kettering, Telford, Sittingbourne and Sheppey, Carlisle and Ilford South. That demonstrates the breadth of this issue.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the availability of driving tests.

17:44

Sitting adjourned.