European Council
John Bercow Excerpts(12 years, 6 months ago)
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Mr Speaker
Order. A very large number of right hon. and hon. Members are seeking to catch my eye. I am keen to accommodate them, but I remind the House that we have a very heavily subscribed debate to take place afterwards. Therefore, brevity from Back Benchers and Front Benchers alike is of the essence.
Sir Malcolm Rifkind (Kensington) (Con)
I agree with the Prime Minister’s view on the debate this afternoon. However, has he had drawn to his attention the terms of the third option in the motion, which is to
“re-negotiate…membership in order to create a new relationship based on trade and co-operation”?
Is that not purely the situation of Norway and Switzerland, is that not incompatible with membership of the European Union, and should not anyone who is interested in renegotiation that will enable us to stay within the Union oppose this motion?
Oral Answers to Questions
John Bercow Excerpts(12 years, 6 months ago)
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Mr Paterson
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that question, which follows on from what I have just said. He is absolutely right to draw attention to the fact that we now have a police service that is wholly accountable to a democratically elected Justice Minister and a democratically elected Policing Board, on which all parties sit.
Diana Johnson
Is the security situation worse or better than it was a year ago?
Vernon Coaker
I thank the Secretary of State for his kind words. I will certainly try to work with him and others for the good of the people of Northern Ireland.
What plans does the Secretary of State have to use his role in working with Northern Ireland ministerial colleagues to promote Londonderry/Derry as the UK city of culture 2013 both nationally and internationally? Is it not the case, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Delyn (Mr Hanson) said, that one very powerful way of combating any dissident threat is to give a positive image of what the city and the whole of Northern Ireland can offer in terms of culture, and to give a true reflection of the people of Northern Ireland, in stark contrast to those who so recently caused outrage when they attacked the city of culture offices?
Mr Paterson
I am very grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s question and totally endorse it. I was at the launch of the city of culture with the First Minister and the Deputy First Minister, but the key people there were the young people who put on the film and the soundtrack by Snow Patrol, which wowed the judges; Phil Redmond confirmed that it was the thing that really swung it. That is a complete celebration of everything good that is going on in that city, as was the opening of the bridge this year. The tiny number of crazy people putting bombs outside the offices are unrepresentative, and they will not succeed.
Mr Speaker
I am extremely grateful. We will now move on with rather greater dispatch, I hope.
Paul Murphy (Torfaen) (Lab)
2. What plans he has to publish his conclusions on legacy issues in Northern Ireland.
Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)
I thank the Secretary of State for his answer. However, given the political sensitivity surrounding legacy issues and the fact that the greatest legacy issue in Northern Ireland is the murder of Pat Finucane, will he reflect on the comments of the Minister for Foreign Affairs and Trade in Dublin and of members of the Finucane family, and realise that this could undermine the very architecture of the Good Friday agreement? Will he now redress the situation and ensure that there is an independent judicial inquiry into—
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Hugo Swire)
Following discussions between Treasury Ministers and the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment, the Treasury and the Financial Services Authority published a joint consultation paper in August setting out proposals for the transfer of the regulation of Northern Ireland credit unions from DETI to the FSA on 31 March 2012. [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. There are far too many private conversations taking place in the Chamber, notably on the Opposition Benches. I would have thought that everybody would want to hear Mr Mark Durkan.
Mark Durkan
I thank the Minister for that reply. Tomorrow is international credit union day, and credit unions in Northern Ireland have been waiting for the change that he described for a long time so that they can offer their members a much greater range of services. Will he assure us that his work with Treasury Ministers will mean that the primary legislation will be adequate, the secondary legislation will follow fast and the transition arrangements will have a strong regional presence so that the credit unions can work with the new regulator to make a success of the new powers?
Dr Alasdair McDonnell (Belfast South) (SDLP)
Has the Secretary of State had any discussions with members of the Northern Ireland Executive about the devolution of taxes other than corporation tax to Northern Ireland?
Mr Speaker
Order. We need particular reference to the importance of the air passenger duty. I am sure the hon. Gentleman meant to mention that.
Mr Paterson
I discussed air passenger duty with members of the Executive, namely the First Minister and the acting Deputy First Minister, yesterday, and I have discussed corporation tax. I have not discussed the devolution of any other taxes.
Mr Swire
As the hon. Gentleman knows, I have reluctantly extended the current arrangements to 2013 and hope to return to the House on this matter before then. I point out to him that Sinn Fein is subject to the same requirement as all other parties, and donations of more than £7,500 must be reported to the Electoral Commission. We want to move to a period of full transparency, but the time is not yet right. [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. The House must come to order. The next questioner is a former Northern Ireland Minister and I trust that the House will want to hear him.
Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)
9. What recent discussions he has had with the Northern Ireland Executive on the contribution of aviation to economic development.
Mr Swire
My hon. Friend is right—that is certainly one way of increasing youth employment. There is youth unemployment in Northern Ireland as there is in Great Britain, but as I have pointed out, that problem bedevilled the previous Government as well as this one, and we take it very seriously. Most of the levers are in the hands—
Mr Speaker
Order. I am sure that the Minister of State is delivering a formidably eloquent answer, but unfortunately I cannot hear it. Would he address the House?
Mr Swire
At the risk of repeating myself, the levers are mostly in the hands of Stormont Executive Ministers, and I urge them to engage with Lord Freud and his ministerial colleagues in respect of the package of welfare reform, which will be important for Northern Ireland’s future prosperity.
Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con)
Would my right hon. Friend agree that at a time when—[Interruption.]
Mr Brazier
Would my right hon. Friend agree that at a time when the Governor of the Bank of England has said that we are facing a possibly unprecedented economic crisis, it is a good thing that the country is still committed to getting our debts under control and to retaining credibility in the financial markets?
The Prime Minister
All the right hon. Gentleman wants to do is talk down the economy, so he will not mention the fact that 300,000 new businesses have started and that 500,000 people have jobs who did not have one at the time of the election. The big question for the right hon. Gentleman is: if he does not like our plan, where is his plan? We now know that his plan to deal with our debts is—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. Organised barracking is not acceptable. The Prime Minister’s answer must be heard.
The Prime Minister
The right hon. Gentleman’s plan is to add £23 billion to Britain’s deficit this year, and almost £100 billion to our deficit by the end of the Parliament. There is not a single country in Europe that would have such a crazy plan—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. We are most grateful to the shadow Chancellor for his advice, but I would like to apply it to the House as a whole. The whole House must calm down; otherwise, it will be in need of medical treatment.
The Prime Minister
The problem is that it was the advice of the right hon. Member for Morley and Outwood (Ed Balls) that got us into this mess in the first place. When is he going to learn that there is not a single country in Europe that thinks that you deal with your debts by adding to your debts? That is why no one listens to him here or in Europe.
The Prime Minister
What a delightful invitation! I thank my hon. Friend—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. I want to hear about the Prime Minister’s Huddersfield travel plans.
The Prime Minister
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I look forward to making those travel plans.
I think that my hon. Friend has managed to show that the Leader of the Opposition’s first lot of questions were irrelevant and the second lot were probably wrong.
Mr Speaker
Order. We now come to the statement by the Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice. If Members leaving the Chamber can do so quickly and quietly, we can all look forward to hearing from Mr Secretary Clarke.
Oral Answers to Questions
John Bercow Excerpts(12 years, 7 months ago)
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Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)
The Secretary of State is right to mention the Welsh rugby team and the way that it can highlight Wales. When the Prime Minister of the United Kingdom comes in and sits next to her later, for Prime Minister’s questions, will she ask him to put the Welsh flag up over No. 10 Downing street this weekend, as he did with the cross of St George for the England football team during the World cup? [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. Hon. Members wish to hear the Secretary of State’s reply to this probing question.
Mrs Gillan
I can heartily endorse that recommendation. Whether the powers that be will be able to fly that flag I do not know, so I cannot give him that guarantee, but it will be flying proudly above Gwydyr house.
Mel Stride
As my right hon. Friend will know, under the previous Government there was far too much onerous employment legislation, much of which served simply as a brake on the growth of small and medium-sized enterprises both in Wales and throughout the United Kingdom. Does she therefore welcome, as I do, the fact that the Government will be doubling the period to qualify to go to an unfair dismissal tribunal, and that fees will also be charged thereafter to stop—
Mrs Gillan
I think my hon. Friend knows that we are trying very hard to create the right conditions to encourage private sector growth, and particularly to make life easier for SMEs. He will know that we are also exempting them from audit requirements that will save SMEs in the UK up to £200 million a year. It is particularly important that we are exempting micro-businesses and start-ups from new domestic regulation until 2014. The point that he has raised is just another way in which we are trying to help private business to grow in the UK.
Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)
This morning we have seen a shocking increase in unemployment, with 16,000 more people in Wales desperate to find work—a massive 13.5% increase over the past three months—as a direct result of this Government’s policies. Given this huge rise in unemployment, plus the squeeze on household incomes in Wales as a result of the Government’s increase in VAT, the reduction in the real purchasing power of pensions and the cruel slashing of the winter fuel allowance at a time of rocketing energy and food prices, can the Secretary of State explain how her Government’s policies will stimulate consumer demand in Wales and get growth going? How on earth will they stem the spate of high street shop closures and put some sparkle back into—
Mrs Gillan
May I extend a warm welcome to the hon. Lady, who is now on the Front Bench? She and I have had many conversations, and I wish her well. I am sure that she will complement the right hon. Member for Neath (Mr Hain) in her new role, and the Under-Secretary and I would like to extend our good wishes to her.
I take no joy from the figures this morning, but I do take joy from the fact that we have announced sector-based work academies. I hope that the hon. Lady will use her good offices with her party, and explain why the Labour party and the Welsh Government are cutting the enterprise budget, rather than using the money to freeze council tax in Wales, as it is being frozen in England.
Alun Cairns (Vale of Glamorgan) (Con)
Does the Minister accept that enterprise zones could create private sector employment in some of the most needy parts of Wales? Does he not think that the Welsh Government’s approach has been somewhat disjointed at best? Some prosperous parts have become enterprise zones, but some of the most needy parts, such as Barry in my constituency, have not.
Mr Speaker
May I remind the Minister that he is not responsible for the Welsh Assembly Government, so a pithy reply would be in order?
Mr David Jones
In all pithiness, I agree with my hon. Friend the Member for Vale of Glamorgan (Alun Cairns) that enterprise zones are key to economic development, and I regret that the Welsh Assembly Government have still not clarified their intentions in that regard.
Mrs Gillan
I need to remind the hon. Gentleman that the enterprise zones in Wales are a devolved matter that falls to the Welsh Government. I would ask him to make his representations, as I did on his behalf and on behalf of many other Members of the House, to the Minister for Business, Enterprise, Technology and Science in Wales. Let me tell the hon. Gentleman what we are doing. We are increasing capital spending on roads and railways, creating a superfast broadband network, and cutting corporation tax and regulation. We are doing an awful lot to support businesses, and I want the Welsh Government to rise to the challenge, too. [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. There are far too many noisy private conversations taking place in the Chamber. I want to hear both the questions and the answers.
Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)
7. If she will assess the effects of changes to the feed-in tariff scheme on the solar industry in Wales.
Mr Speaker
Order. It is still far too noisy. I know the House will be united in wanting to hear Mr Peter Bone.
The Prime Minister
The right hon. Gentleman is wrong on his figures. There are 50,000 more women in work than there were at the time of the election, there are 239,000 more people in work than at the time of the election, and there are 500,000 more private sector jobs. He specifically asks about a credible growth plan. I would ask, where is his credible growth plan? Why is it that the former Chancellor of the Exchequer said this:
“If you don’t have a credible economic policy, you are simply not at the races”?
Why is it—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. Whatever people think of what is being said on either side of the House, they must not shout their heads off. The Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition will be heard, and that is the end of it.
The Prime Minister
The fact is that our plan is supported by the CBI, by the Institute of Directors, by the business organisations, by the IMF, and by the OECD. The right hon. Gentleman cannot even get support from his own former Cabinet Ministers. The former Home Secretary says this:
“I think the economic proposition that Labour puts at the moment is unconvincing.”
If the right hon. Gentleman cannot convince his own party, how can he convince the country?
The Prime Minister
I am very grateful to my hon. Friend for raising this case. What that young soldier has been through for those weeks, months and years is something that anyone in this House would find difficult to contemplate. If it is the case that he will be coming home soon, I wish him, his family and everyone in Israel well.
Mr Speaker
Order. The following statement is on an extremely important matter. May I appeal to right hon. and hon. Members who are leaving the Chamber to do so quickly and quietly, so that I and those remaining can hear the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland?
Oral Answers to Questions
John Bercow Excerpts(12 years, 7 months ago)
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The Deputy Prime Minister
As my hon. Friend knows, I personally have a great deal of sympathy with that view, but it is not reflected in the coalition agreement or shared across government. Clearly, it is a debate that we will continue to have on both sides of the House.
Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)
Thank you, Mr Speaker. On the issue of compulsion, the Electoral Commission has already said that to move to individual electoral registration without compulsion will see the registers fall from more than 90%—this is what the Electoral Commission says, and the Deputy Prime Minister is nodding his head—to 65% coverage. Ethnic minorities, young people and the urban poor will be disfranchised. Apart from gerrymandering the constituency boundaries, fixing the election timetable and now letting millions of people fall off the register, what else is he doing to let the Tories stay in power for a generation?
The Deputy Prime Minister
The Prime Minister, the Chancellor, I and others are of course in constant contact with Governments elsewhere—in the eurozone and, indeed, in other parts of the European Union. We have been quite clear that it is not our role to seek somehow to dictate what should happen, other than to say that the solution needs to be developed urgently; to be comprehensive and decisive; to deal with the Greek situation decisively; to create the means by which contagion can be stopped spreading from Greece to elsewhere in the eurozone; and to create binding rules so that fiscal disciplines in the eurozone are respected and banks are recapitalised. Further, and something on which Britain could really lead, we should work as 27, not as a fractured European Union, in order to increase competitiveness and to further liberalisation within the single market, because that is the way we will increase the European Union’s welfare in the future.
Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)
The country watched in amazement yesterday afternoon and evening as, one by one, apologists for the Secretary of State for Defence explained that the ministerial code was not written in stone. Indeed, it is not; it is written in black and white, so why are the coalition Government trying to rewrite at least the spirit of the ministerial code, if not the letter?
The Attorney-General
In view of that intervention, I would simply add that the current position is that the closure process has been monitored and the DPP remains satisfied at present that in no case has the closure of the FSS had any impact on his ability to carry out prosecutions within the CPS.
Mr Speaker
I am immensely grateful to the Attorney-General, whom no one could ever accuse of excluding from his comprehensive answers any fact that he judges to be material. We are most grateful to him.
Oral Answers to Questions
John Bercow Excerpts(12 years, 8 months ago)
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Mr Speaker
Order. There are far too many private conversations taking place in the Chamber. The House must come to order and hear Mr Mel Stride.
Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con)
T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
Mr Maude
I should be delighted for either myself or the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (Mr Hurd), to join my hon. Friend in Okehampton to discuss those very issues. There is a huge amount that can be done.
Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)
One quango that has done a really good job since it was brought in by the Labour Government is the Security Industry Authority, which licenses bouncers outside pubs. One role that it has not yet been given is the licensing of private investigators. We have seen over the past year that some private investigators are very good people, but some of them are the scum of the earth. Should we not be licensing them and giving that power to the authority?
The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)
I am grateful to Lincolnshire and Rutland Education Business Partnership for the excellent work that it has done this summer, which is a really good example of communities working together to support the NCS. As I have said before, we are giving careful consideration to all bids received to run the 2012 pilots and will be making an announcement very shortly. [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. There really is far too much noise in the Chamber. It is very discourteous to the Member asking the question and the Minister whose answer we want to hear. I hope the House will show some respect for Mr Sammy Wilson.
Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)
What arrangements does the Minister intend to put in place to ensure that places such as Northern Ireland benefit from the opportunities presented by the big society bank?
The Prime Minister
I am not surprised that the right hon. Gentleman wants to change the subject, because on policing he was having his collar felt as he has done a complete U-turn on the policy he used to be committed to.
As I said some moments ago, in our health service we are seeing more cancer patients get treatment, more doctors in our NHS, fewer bureaucrats, a reduction in mixed-sex—[Interruption.] I know Labour Members do not like hearing—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. There is far too much noise in what is beginning to sound like orchestrated heckling. [Interruption.] Order. It is profoundly discourteous and it should stop.
The Prime Minister
The trouble is that the Opposition do not like hearing good news about what is happening in the national health service. The fact is that waiting times for outpatients have actually fallen since the last election.
Nadine Dorries (Mid Bedfordshire) (Con)
The Liberal Democrats make up 8.7% of this Parliament and yet they seem to be influencing our free school policy, health and many issues including immigration and abortion. Does the Prime Minister—[Interruption.]
Nadine Dorries
Does the Prime Minister think it is about time he told the Deputy Prime Minister who is the boss? [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. I wanted to hear the question, but I want to hear the Prime Minister’s answer.
The Prime Minister
I know that the hon. Lady is extremely frustrated about the—[Interruption.] Perhaps I should start all over again—[Interruption.] I am going to give up on this one.
Libya
John Bercow Excerpts(12 years, 8 months ago)
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Mr Speaker
Order. Understandably, there is wide interest in the Prime Minister’s statement. If I am to accommodate that interest, I require brevity. In pursuit of a helping hand, I look to an old hand—Mr Nicholas Soames.
Nicholas Soames (Mid Sussex) (Con)
I join in the praise from the Prime Minister for the magnificent performance of the British armed forces and for the courage and resolution of the Libyan people. Does my right hon. Friend agree that matters are inevitably about to become a little messy in Libya in the months ahead, and that it will be important for Britain to continue to offer what help it can in a spirit of general co-operation and humility?
Public Disorder
John Bercow Excerpts(12 years, 9 months ago)
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Mr Speaker
Order. A great many colleagues are seeking to catch my eye, which is entirely understandable. I want to accommodate Members, but I issue with particular force my usual exhortation for brevity.
Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab)
I welcome what the Prime Minister has said about the death of Mark Duggan and about compensation for victims. In Tottenham, 45 people have lost their homes, which were burnt to the ground. They were running out of their homes carrying their children in their arms, and their cry is, “Where were the police?” We can have this debate today, but it is no replacement for hearing from the people themselves. Will the Prime Minister come to Tottenham and speak with those victims and the independent shopkeepers, hairdressers and jewellers whose businesses are lying in cinders? Will he also commit to a public inquiry to consider why initial skirmishes were allowed to lead to a situation in which the great Roman road, Tottenham high road, now lies in cinders?
Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)
I thank the Prime Minister for coming to Wolverhampton yesterday and meeting retailers who were affected by what happened, including Mr Sham Sharma, whose computer shop was ransacked and looted. What we have seen in recent days is what happens when order breaks down. When order breaks down there is no liberty; there is fear. The Prime Minister is right to say that those who did this are responsible, but Governments also have responsibilities. Will he reconsider his Government’s plans to make CCTV harder for our communities to use instead of easier, and will he also look again at police numbers? The idea that the budgets cuts he is making will not affect numbers may look good as a line to take, but it will not convince the public—
The Prime Minister
We are making sure that CCTV is properly regulated, but we do not want to restrict its use. CCTV is vital in the fight against crime, and I am 100% committed to it. May I say how much sense I thought the right hon. Gentleman spoke yesterday when he talked about the fine line between order and disorder and the importance of giving support to our police, including the excellent work done by the West Midlands force?
Mr Speaker
Order. I am very keen to accommodate the interest of colleagues, but we are now starting to get mini speeches. It is entirely understandable, but it absorbs a lot of time. May I appeal to colleagues for brevity—a legendary example of which I know will now be provided by the hon. Member for Bury St Edmunds (Mr Ruffley)?
Mr David Ruffley (Bury St Edmunds) (Con)
Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary has said that £1.5 billion a year can be made in police efficiency savings. Will the Home Office mandate collaboration to ensure that those savings are delivered, thus protecting the front line, which is what we all want to do?
The Prime Minister
I do not know whether we need an inquiry into safety in the House, Mr Speaker, but someone seems to have stolen the hon. Gentleman’s jacket.
I accept that we are asking police officers to do a difficult job and, yes, we are asking them to undergo a pay freeze, as other public sector workers are doing, but we are giving them the backing they want by cutting paperwork and enabling them to get out on the street and do the job they want to do.
Mr Speaker
I am grateful for the Prime Minister’s concern, but I assure the House that nothing disorderly has happened. The hon. Member for Stoke-on-Trent South (Robert Flello) was perfectly in order. He was focusing not on sartorial matters but on violence, and he was perfectly in order. We will leave it at that. I ask the House to try to rise to the level of events.
Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon and East Thurrock) (Con)
I thank my right hon. Friend for his statement, particularly the support he is offering small and medium-sized businesses. As someone whose business has been directly affected, although not disastrously, I know the disruption it is causing. Will the Prime Minister assure me that no business will be lost and no livelihood subsequently lost because of the actions of those thugs and hooligans, and that the £20 million support fund, if deemed not big enough, will be increased to make sure that those things do not happen?
Mr Speaker
Order. I remind the House that Members who were not here at the start of the statement should not now be standing in the expectation of being called.
Mr Ian Davidson (Glasgow South West) (Lab/Co-op)
Scottish police assisting their English colleagues is part of the benefit of the Union, but why is it that from the beginning of the riot the Government have given the impression of being behind the curve, always paying catch-up, doing too little, too late? Is there not more than a whiff of incompetence?
Mr Speaker
Order. Notwithstanding the very heavy taxation of the Prime Minister’s knee muscles, I am inclined to continue and accommodate the remaining Members who wish to contribute, but I urge colleagues to help me to help them by being brief.
Mr David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab)
I was genuinely saddened to hear the Prime Minister’s response to my right hon. Friend the Member for Rother Valley (Mr Barron) on the proposal to evict the people responsible for this damage from social housing. Some of us from the communities that have been on the receiving end of the damage and seen stable communities destroyed by these acts really know what we are talking about, so may I ask the Prime Minister to think about this and engage with us before pursuing the matter?
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend makes a good point. There are now much better mechanisms to ensure that people who enter the criminal justice system and who do not have a right to be here are removed more quickly.
Mr Speaker
I thank the Prime Minister for his commitment to the House over the past 165 minutes, and I thank all 160 colleagues, including the Leader of the Opposition, who have questioned him.
Public Confidence in the Media and Police
John Bercow Excerpts(12 years, 9 months ago)
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The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)
With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement.
Over the past two weeks, a torrent of revelations and allegations has engulfed some of this country’s most important institutions. It has shaken people’s trust in the media and the legality of what they do, in the police and their ability to investigate media malpractice, and yes, in politics and in politicians’ ability to get to grips with these issues. People desperately want us to put a stop to the illegal practices, to ensure the independence and effectiveness of the police, and to establish a more healthy relationship between politicians and media owners. Above all, they want us to act on behalf of the victims: people who have suffered dreadfully—including through murder and terrorism—and who have had to relive that agony all over again because of phone hacking. The public want us to work together to sort this problem out, because until we do so it will not be possible to get back to the issues they care about even more: getting our economy moving, creating jobs, helping with the cost of living, protecting us from terrorism, and restoring fairness to our welfare and immigration systems.
So let me set out the action we have taken. We now have a well-led police investigation which will examine criminal behaviour by the media and corruption in the police. We have set up a wide-ranging and independent judicial inquiry under Lord Justice Leveson to establish what went wrong, why and what we need to do to ensure it never happens again.
I am the first Prime Minister to publish meetings with media editors, proprietors and senior executives to bring complete transparency to the relationship between Government Ministers and the media, stretching right back to the general election. And the House of Commons, by speaking so clearly about its revulsion at the phone hacking allegations, helped to cause the end of the News Corp bid for the rest of BSkyB.
Today, I would like to update the House on the action we are taking, first, on the make-up and remit of the public inquiry; secondly, on issues concerning the police service; and thirdly, I will answer—I am afraid at some length—all of the key questions that have been raised about my role and that of my staff.
First, on the judicial inquiry and the panel of experts who will assist it, those experts will be: the civil liberties campaigner and director of Liberty, Shami Chakrabarti; the former chief constable of the West Midlands, Sir Paul Scott-Lee; the former chairman of Ofcom, Lord David Currie; the long-serving former political editor of Channel 4 News, Elinor Goodman; the former political editor of The Daily Telegraph and former special correspondent of the Press Association, George Jones; and the former chairman of the Financial Times, Sir David Bell. These people have been chosen not only for their expertise in the media, broadcasting, regulation and policing, but for their complete independence from the interested parties.
I also said last week that the inquiry will proceed in two parts, and I set out a draft terms of reference. We have consulted Lord Justice Leveson, the Opposition, the Chairs of relevant Select Committees, and the devolved Administrations. I also talked to the family of Milly Dowler and the Hacked Off campaign.
We have made some significant amendments to the remit of the inquiry. With allegations that the problem of the relationship between the press and the police goes wider than just the Met, we have agreed that other relevant forces will now be within the scope of the inquiry. We have agreed that the inquiry should consider not just the relationship between the press, police and politicians, but their individual conduct too. We have also made it clear that the inquiry should look not just at the press, but at other media organisations, including broadcasters and social media if there is any evidence that they have been involved in criminal activities. I am today placing in the Library of the House the final terms of reference. Lord Justice Leveson and the panel will get to work immediately. He will aim to make a report on the first part of the inquiry within 12 months. There should be no doubt: this public inquiry is as robust as possible; it is fully independent; and Lord Justice Leveson will be able to summon witnesses under oath.
Let me now turn to the extraordinary events we have seen over the past few days at Britain’s largest police force, the Met. On Sunday, Sir Paul Stephenson resigned as Commissioner of the Metropolitan Police. I want to thank him for the work he has carried out in policing over many, many years in London and elsewhere. On Monday, Assistant Commissioner John Yates also resigned, and again, I want to express my gratitude for the work he has done, especially in improving our response to terrorism.
Given the sudden departure of two such senior officers, the first concern must be to ensure that the effective policing of our capital, and confidence in that policing, are maintained. I have asked the Home Secretary and the Mayor of London to ensure that the responsibilities of the Met will continue seamlessly. The current Deputy Commissioner, Tim Godwin, who stood in for Paul Stephenson when he was ill and did a good job, will shortly do so again. The vital counter-terrorism job carried out by John Yates will be taken on by the highly experienced Cressida Dick.
The responsibilities of the Deputy Commissioner, which, the House will remember, includes general oversight of the vital investigations both into hacking and into the police—Operations Weeting and Elveden—will not be done by someone from inside the Met, but instead by Bernard Hogan-Howe, who will join temporarily from Her Majesty’s inspectorate of constabulary.
We are also looking to speed up the process for selecting and appointing the next commissioner, but we cannot hope that a change in personnel at the top of the Met is enough. The simple fact is that the whole affair raises huge issues about the ethics and practices of our police. Let me state this plainly: the vast majority of our police officers are beyond reproach and serve the public with distinction. But police corruption must be rooted out. Operation Elveden and Lord Justice Leveson’s inquiry are charged with doing just that, but I believe that we can and must do more.
Put simply, there are two problems: first, a perception that when problems arise it is still “the police investigating the police”; and secondly, a lack of transparency in terms of police contacts with the media. We are acting on both. Those were precisely the two points that my right hon. Friend the Home Secretary addressed in her statement to this House on Monday.
We believe that this crisis calls for us to stand back and take another, broader look at the whole culture of policing in this country, including the way it is led. At the moment, the police system is too closed. There is only one point of entry into the force. There are too few, and arguably too similar, candidates for the top jobs. As everyone knows, Tom Winsor is looking into police careers, and I want to see radical proposals for how we can open up our police force and bring in fresh leadership. The Government are introducing elected police and crime commissioners, ensuring that there is an individual holding their local force to account for local people, and we need to see whether we can extend that openness to the operational side too.
Why should all police officers have to start at the same level? Why should not someone with a different skill set be able to join the police force in a senior rank? Why should not someone who has been a proven success overseas be able to help us to turn around a force here at home? I believe that those are questions we should ask to get the greater transparency and stronger corporate governance we need in Britain’s policing.
Finally, let me turn to the specific questions that I have been asked in recent days. First, it has been suggested that my chief of staff was behaving wrongly when he did not take up then Assistant Commissioner Yates’s offer to be briefed on police investigations around phone hacking. I have said repeatedly about the police investigation that they should pursue the evidence wherever it leads and arrest exactly whom they wish, and that is exactly what they have done.
No. 10 has now published the full e-mail exchange between my chief of staff and John Yates, and it shows that my staff behaved entirely properly. Ed Llewellyn’s reply to the police made it clear that it would be not be appropriate to give me or my staff any privileged briefing. The reply that he sent was cleared in advance by my permanent secretary, Jeremy Heywood. Just imagine, Mr Speaker, if they had done the opposite and asked for, or acquiesced to, receiving privileged information, even if there was no intention to use it. There would have been quite justified outrage.
To risk any perception that No. 10 was seeking to influence a sensitive police investigation in any way would have been completely wrong. Mr Yates and Sir Paul both backed that judgment in their evidence yesterday. Indeed, as John Yates said:
“The offer was properly and understandably rejected.”
The Cabinet Secretary and the Chair of the Home Affairs Committee have now both backed that judgment, too.
Next, there is the question of whether the ministerial code was broken in relation to the BSkyB merger and meetings with News International executives. The Cabinet Secretary has ruled very clearly that the code was not broken, not least because I had asked to be entirely excluded from the decision.
Next, I would like to set the record straight on another question that arose yesterday: whether the Conservative party had also employed Neil Wallis. The Conservative party chairman has ensured that all the accounts have been gone through. He has confirmed to me that neither Neil Wallis nor his company have ever been employed or contracted by the Conservative party, and nor has the Conservative party made payments to either of them. It has been drawn to our attention that he may have provided Andy Coulson with some informal advice on a voluntary basis before the election. To the best of my knowledge, I did not know anything about this until Sunday night. But, as with revealing this information, we will be entirely transparent about this issue.
Finally, there is the question of whether everyone—the media, the police and politicians—is taking responsibility in an appropriate manner. I want to address my own responsibilities very directly, and that brings me to my decision to employ Andy Coulson. I have said very clearly that if it turns out that Andy Coulson knew about the hacking at the News of the World, he will not only have lied to me, but he will have lied to the police, a Select Committee and the Press Complaints Commission, and of course perjured himself in a court of law. More to the point, if that comes to pass, he could also expect to face severe criminal charges. I have an old-fashioned view about innocent until proven guilty, but if it turns out that I have been lied to, that would be the moment for a profound apology. In that event, I can tell you that I will not fall short. My responsibilities are for hiring him and for the work he did in Downing street. On the work he did, I repeat, perhaps not for the last time, that his work at Downing street has not been the subject of any serious complaint and, of course, he left months ago. On the decision to hire him, I believe that I have answered every question about that. It was my decision—[Interruption.] Hold on. It was my decision; I take responsibility—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. I apologise for interrupting the Prime Minister. The House must come to order and hear, in silence, the remainder of the statement.
The Prime Minister
People will, of course, make judgments about it. Of course, I regret, and I am sorry about, the furore it has caused. With 20:20 hindsight and all that has followed, I would not have offered him the job, and I expect that he would not have taken it. But you do not make decisions in hindsight; you make them in the present. You live and you learn and, believe you me, I have learned.
I look forward to answering any and all questions about these issues. Following the statement, I will open the debate, but the greatest responsibility I have is to clear up this mess, so let me finish by saying this. There are accusations of criminal behaviour by parts of the press and potentially by the police where the most rapid and decisive action is required. There are the issues of excessive closeness to media groups and media owners where both Labour and Conservative have to make a fresh start. There is the history of missed warnings—Select Committee reports; Information Commissioner reports. They were missed by the last Government but, yes, missed by the official Opposition, too. What the public expect is not petty political point scoring. What they want and deserve is concerted action to rise to the level of events and a pledge to work together to sort this issue out once and for all. It is in that spirit that I commend this statement to the House.
Edward Miliband (Doncaster North) (Lab)
May I begin by thanking the Prime Minister for his statement? Recalling Parliament was the right thing to do, because rebuilding trust in the press, police and politics is essential for our society. The most powerful institutions in the land must show the responsibility that we expect from everybody else. That is why the country wants answers from those involved in the crisis so that those responsible can be held to account, and so that we as a country can move forward to address all the issues that the Prime Minister mentioned in his statement.
That is why I welcome Lord Leveson’s inquiry, the announcement of the terms of reference and, indeed, the panel members chosen by the Prime Minister for that purpose. It is why I welcome the Prime Minister’s agreement with us about the abolition of the Press Complaints Commission and the fact that it needs to be replaced. It is why I welcome the apology from Rupert Murdoch and the withdrawal of the BSkyB bid. It is why we respect the decision by Sir Paul Stephenson to stand down so that, going forward, the leadership of the Met can focus on the vital work that is necessary.
So we are beginning to see answers given and responsibility taken, and that is right, but the Prime Minister knows that he must do the same if the country is to move forward. [Interruption.] I have a number of questions for him. He said in his statement—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. I said a few moments ago that the remainder of the Prime Minister’s statement should be heard in silence. [Interruption.] Order. I say the same to Members who are now heckling: think of what the public think of our behaviour and stop it without delay.
Edward Miliband
Let me start with BSkyB. The Prime Minister said in his statement something that he has said on a number of occasions, which is that he was excluded from the “formal” decision-making process. With respect, that does not quite answer the questions that he has been asked. Last Friday, he revealed that since taking office he had met representatives of News International or News Corp, including Rebekah Brooks and James Murdoch, on 26 separate occasions, so the first question that I have for him is whether he can assure the House that the BSkyB bid was not raised in any of those meetings or in phone calls with those organisations, and whether he can also say whether at any time he discussed the bid with the Culture Secretary or, indeed, with any of the Culture Secretary’s officials.
Let me turn to Andy Coulson. Ten days ago, the Prime Minister said of his decision to employ Andy Coulson:
“I wasn’t given any specific information that would lead me to change my mind.”
The country has a right to expect that the Prime Minister would have made very effort to uncover the information about Mr Coulson to protect himself and his office, yet the pattern of events suggests the opposite—that the Prime Minister and those around him made every effort not to hear the facts about Mr Coulson. In the past week, we have become aware of five opportunities for the Prime Minister or his staff to act on specific information that would surely have led him to change his mind about Mr Coulson—all were declined. His chief of staff, Ed Llewellyn, was told in February 2010 that Mr Coulson had hired a convicted criminal to work at the News of the World who was accused of making payments to police on behalf of the newspaper. Even Rebekah Brooks said yesterday that this decision was “extraordinary”, yet the Prime Minister’s chief of staff apparently did nothing with the information. In May 2010, the Deputy Prime Minister warned the Prime Minister about bringing Mr Coulson into Downing street. He did nothing.
On 1 September 2010 The New York Times published an investigation quoting multiple sources saying that Mr Coulson knew about hacking that was rife at the News of the World. We now know from John Yates that that article was enough to lead the police to reopen their inquiries and it led to Operation Weeting. We also know now that it triggered the termination of the Metropolitan police’s contract with Neil Wallis, Mr Coulson’s former deputy at the News of the World, and it led to the offer by Mr Yates to Ed Llewellyn for the Prime Minister to be briefed.
The Cabinet Secretary has said it is right that the offer was not taken up, but the question is, why? Because the Prime Minister was compromised by his relationship with Mr Coulson and therefore could not be told anything at all about an investigation concerning a member of his own staff. He was hamstrung by a conflict of interest. But the Prime Minister should not have had to rely on briefings from his chief of staff. Here was a major investigation, published by a leading global newspaper about the Prime Minister’s director of communications. The Met fired Mr Wallis, even though he was not mentioned in the article, because of the associations he had with Mr Coulson and the publication of the article. What did the Prime Minister do? He did nothing.
Given The New York Times’ evidence, the public will rightly have expected very loud alarm bells to ring in the Prime Minister’s mind, yet apparently he did nothing. Then in October the Prime Minister’s chief of staff was approached again by The Guardian about the serious evidence that it had about Mr Coulson’s behaviour. Once more, nothing was done. This cannot be put down to gross incompetence. It was a deliberate attempt to hide from the facts about Mr Coulson. [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. Members shouting out should not be doing so. They must calm themselves and keep on an even keel. It is better for their health and for the House.
Edward Miliband
The Prime Minister was caught in a tragic conflict of loyalty between the standards and integrity that people should expect of him and his staff, and his personal allegiance to Mr Coulson. He made the wrong choice. He chose to stick with Mr Coulson.
My second question is: can the Prime Minister now explain why he failed to act on clear information, and why those around him built a wall of silence between the facts and the Prime Minister? The Prime Minister’s conflict of interests had real effects. The Metropolitan Police Commissioner resigned on Sunday. The Prime Minister did not talk about the reasons for his resignation, but the House must talk about it. Sir Paul Stephenson was trapped. He was trapped between a Home Secretary angry at not being told about the hiring of Mr Coulson’s deputy, Neil Wallis, and Sir Paul’s belief, in his own words, that doing so would have compromised the Prime Minister—compromised him because of Mr Coulson. Why did Sir Paul think that? Because his own deputy, John Yates, had been told by the Prime Minister’s chief of staff that the Prime Minister should be told nothing.
This catastrophic error of judgment—hiring Andy Coulson and hanging on to him for too long—directly contributed to the position that Sir Paul found himself in and his decision to resign. My third question is: does the Prime Minister accept that his conflict of interest put the Metropolitan Police Commissioner in an impossible position?
So the three questions are about BSkyB, the warnings about Mr Coulson that were consistently ignored, and the Met Commissioner. These and many other questions will have to be answered by the Prime Minister over the coming months, but there is one other question that matters now. He says that in hindsight he made a mistake by hiring Mr Coulson. He says that if Mr Coulson lied to him, he would apologise. That is not good enough. It is not about hindsight or whether Mr Coulson lied to him; it is about all the information and warnings that he ignored. He was warned, but he preferred to ignore the warnings. So that the country can have the leadership we need, why does he not do more than give a half apology and provide a full apology now for hiring Mr Coulson and bringing him into the heart of Downing street?
The Prime Minister
I say to the right hon. Gentleman: stop hunting for feeble conspiracy theories and start rising to events. Most of his remarks were just a tissue of totally—[Interruption.] I shall try to answer every point. First, I thank him for what he said about recalling Parliament. That was the right thing to do. I also thank him for what he said about Lord Leveson, whom I think will do a good job, and about the panel. We sent the names to his office this morning.
I feel, however, that the right hon. Gentleman wrote most of his questions before he heard my statement today. He asked about BSkyB. The Cabinet Secretary has said that there was no breach of the ministerial code. We heard the evidence of Rebekah Wade yesterday, saying that there was not one single inappropriate conversation. When it comes to setting out meetings with News Corporation, I should point out that I have set out every single meeting since the last election. The right hon. Gentleman published a list this morning, but it did not go back to the last election. Indeed, when are we going to see the transparency from Tony Blair and Gordon Brown?
Secondly, on the right hon. Gentleman’s questions about Andy Coulson—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. The House is getting over-excited again. I am glad that it has calmed down and will want to listen to the Prime Minister.
The Prime Minister
Secondly, the right hon. Gentleman asked about Andy Coulson. I remind him that no one has raised a single question about his conduct at No. 10 Downing street. There is today only one party leader with a News International executive sitting in his office with a cloud over his head.
Thirdly, the right hon. Gentleman raised questions about my chief of staff, Edward Llewellyn. On the proposed meeting with John Yates, is the Leader of the Opposition really suggesting that he knows better than the Chairman of the Home Affairs Select Committee, the Cabinet Secretary, John Yates, Paul Stephenson and others, including Jeremy Heywood, who, by the way, worked diligently for Tony Blair and Gordon Brown? Is he saying that all those people are wrong and he is right? I think that that shows a staggering lack of judgment.
I want to answer the question about Sir Paul’s resignation. I know that it is inconvenient for the right hon. Gentleman, but Sir Paul Stephenson set out the reasons for his resignation yesterday in detailed evidence and explained how his situation was so different from that in No. 10 Downing street. Most of the questions that the right hon. Gentleman asked I have already answered: the role of the chief of staff—answered. The parallels with the Metropolitan police—answered. The role of Mr Wallis—answered. On the closeness to media groups, we should be clear about what we heard yesterday. Rupert Murdoch said that the politician he was closest to was Gordon Brown as Chancellor—and who was adviser to Gordon Brown when he was Chancellor? [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. Back Benchers are getting over-excited but will want to hear the answers given by their Prime Minister.
The Prime Minister
Who was adviser to Gordon Brown when he was Chancellor? It was the right hon. Gentleman.
On the action that we have taken, we should remember that during the previous Parliament, the Information Commissioner’s reports were ignored. Select Committee reports—[Hon. Members: “Ignored!”] The failure of the police investigation—[Hon. Members: “Ignored!”] We now know exactly which party was the slumber party—the Labour party. Everyone can see exactly what the right hon. Gentleman is doing. He is trying to play this for narrow party advantage, but the problem has been taking place over many years and is for both our main parties. The public expect us to stop playing with it, rise to the occasion and deal with it for the good of the country.
Louise Mensch (Corby) (Con)
Does my right hon. Friend agree that after the extraordinary events of the past few days, the last thing the general public want to see is cheap partisanship—[Interruption.]
The Prime Minister
I never had one inappropriate conversation, and let me be clear: I completely took myself out of any decision making about this bid. I had no role in it and I had no role in when the announcements were going to be made. That is the point. When the hon. Gentleman makes signals like that, I have to say—
Mr Speaker
Order. The House again needs to calm down. The question was properly heard and the Prime Minister’s answer must be properly heard.
The Prime Minister
I have answered the question and the point I would make is that unlike the party that the hon. Gentleman has been supporting for the last God knows how many years, this party has set out all its contacts, all its meetings and everything it did—in stark contrast to the Labour party.
Mr Speaker
Order. This is the mother of Parliaments, where we have free speech. This question will be heard and that is the end of it.
Mr Brian Binley (Northampton South) (Con)
The confidence of my constituents—[Interruption.]
Mr Binley
I will start again, Mr Speaker. The confidence of my constituents in Northampton in the political process has been progressively undermined and can be traced to the dismal example of politicians in the mid-1990s laying all before the altar of media barons. How can we change that culture, address the abysmal failure of political oversight and leadership and ensure that never again will we allow propriety to be sacrificed while those responsible are asleep on watch?
Penny Mordaunt (Portsmouth North) (Con)
This House, the media and the whole country have been rightly focused on this issue, but is the Prime Minister aware that aid agencies are reporting that as a result of that focus there has been a lack of public awareness of the humanitarian crisis in Somalia, and as a consequence lower donations to relief funds? Will the Prime Minister assure me and the House that he will spend his time looking at those issues as well as this one?
Mr Speaker
The matter to which the hon. Lady has referred is extremely serious, but whatever her strength of feeling about it, this cannot mutate into a general exchange about other matters, and I know that the Prime Minister will not want it to do so.
The Prime Minister
I thought that it was ingenious to get that point into order, but my hon. Friend makes a very important point, and that was one of the reasons why I did not want to cancel entirely my visit to Africa. It is important that we get on with doing the things that Britain should be doing in the world, whether that is trading with countries such as Nigeria and South Africa, or leading the aid effort, as we are, in the horn of Africa where today we have been told there is not just a catastrophe and a drought, but also a famine. I am proud of the fact that Britain is not being deflected from the great role that it is playing to try to feed hungry people.
The Prime Minister
All I can say is that the former Prime Minister’s idea to have the inquiry was never raised with the official Opposition. One of the things that I read in the press in the last couple of days was one of his former colleagues saying that he thought that it was a proposal that Gordon made to himself. [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. The exchanges will not continue until we have order. It is pretty straightforward.
Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)
To hire the hackers of Milly Dowler meant either that Andy Coulson was guilty of being complicit in a corrupt culture, or that he presided over acts of pure evil. What were the warnings given to the Prime Minister by the Deputy Prime Minister and Lord Ashdown not to appoint Andy Coulson, and why did he ignore those warnings?
The Prime Minister
The point I would make is that we have all got to be open about the fact that those on both Front Benches spent a lot of time courting Rupert Murdoch, courting News International, courting the Russian who owns The Independent—and the Daily Mail, and the BBC while we are at it. [Interruption.] Everybody has done it. And we have got to admit that this sort of relationship needs to be changed and put on a more healthy basis. Now we are prepared to admit it, but basically, if you like, the clock has stopped on my watch, and I am determined to sort it out. [Interruption.] From a sedentary position, the shadow Chancellor says, “We didn’t hire Andy Coulson.” Look, you hired Damian McBride. You had Alastair Campbell. You had Alastair Campbell falsifying documents in government. You have still got Tom Baldwin working in your office. [Interruption.] Yes. Gotcha!
Mr Speaker
Order. May I remind the House that I have not been hiring people at all. I call Mr John Cryer.
John Cryer
On 8 July the Prime Minister said that he had commissioned a company to do a basic background check on Coulson. For the fourth time, I am asking for the name of the company. It is a pretty simple question; just come to the Dispatch Box and name the company.
Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)
Today is the anniversary of the moon landing—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. The hon. Lady must be heard. I do not why people are saying “Ooh” when I call the hon. Member for Devizes. It is an extraordinary choice of response. I want to hear the hon. Lady.
Claire Perry
I agree, Mr Speaker. Today, people will know, is the anniversary of the moon landing, around which conspiracy theorists like to cluster. May I urge the Prime Minister, rather than listening to the vapid conspiracy hackgate theorists, to focus on the facts? What is he doing to toughen up the rules around the use of Chequers, to ensure that it is never used for slumber parties for media tycoons again?
Mr Speaker
Order. I would like to accommodate many more colleagues on this important subject, but in order for me to do so, I require brevity. I call Mr William Cash—[Laughter.]
Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con)
Thank you, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister has referred several times to the future of the regulation of the media, not just the press. About the terms of reference that we have been told about, he says that “the inquiry should look not just at the press, but at other media organisations, including broadcasters and social media if there is any evidence that they have been involved in criminal activities.” Does that preclude what the 17 Select Committee Chairmen and others have called for, which is an extension of the terms of reference to deal with regulation of all the media, not merely the press alone?
The Prime Minister
I am afraid that I cannot, but I think that the evidence speaks for itself.
Mr Speaker
Order. May I remind the House that when Members refer to other Members they should do so by referring to their constituencies, rather than by name?
Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)
When the Prime Minister was Leader of the Opposition, was phone hacking discussed in any of his meetings with John Yates or any other Metropolitan police officer?
Mr Sam Gyimah (East Surrey) (Con)
I might be about to block my copy book with you, Mr Speaker—but in response to your comment that you were not hiring anyone, may I gently point out that you hired Tim Hames, who was a journalist for The Times, which is owned by News International?
Turning to the substance of my question, the Prime Minister is right to say that we should get to the bottom of this because ordinary people care about it, but they also care about, and will be affected by, what is happening in the eurozone. Will the Prime Minister tell us that the same amount of time that we are dedicating to this, with the Opposition discussing conspiracy theories, will be dedicated—
Mr Speaker
Order. We have got the thrust of the hon. Gentleman’s question. He will resume his seat; that was quite long enough.
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend has been extremely brave, if I may say so, Mr Speaker. As Parliament is going into recess for six weeks, perhaps that will be long enough for everyone to forget what he has just said. He is right, however, to say that we should focus as well on what is happening in the eurozone—and my right hon. Friend the Chancellor and I are holding a series of meetings to make sure that we get our response right.
Angie Bray (Ealing Central and Acton) (Con)
The Prime Minister will recall that the previous Prime Minister, Gordon Brown, intervened with the EU Commissioner to ensure the continuing monopoly of Rupert Murdoch over private—
Mr Speaker
Order. May I remind the hon. Lady that I have made the point already and reminded the House that reference to Members should be by constituency?
Angie Bray
Does my right hon. Friend agree that that does not square with the statement made by the right hon. Member for Kirkcaldy and Cowdenbeath (Mr Brown) to the House last week when he said that he had never done anything to further News International interests?
Mr Speaker
Order. May I remind Members that as a matter of basic courtesy, Members standing and seeking to catch my eye should not simultaneously be fiddling with their electronic devices? I should have thought the point was so obvious as a matter of courtesy, but apparently not.
Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)
Will the Prime Minister ensure that the activities of Damian McBride, the king of smears and spin under Labour, will also form part of the investigation that he undertakes?
Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)
The Prime Minister seems to be suggesting that his appointment of Andy Coulson was a huge success. In fact, Sir Paul Stephenson has made it clear that that appointment prevented him from giving information to the Prime Minister that he would otherwise have given. Is it not fundamentally obvious to everyone that the Prime Minister made a dramatic error of judgment in appointing Andy Coulson, not with the benefit of—
Mr Speaker
Order. Questions are becoming longer and longer, and they need to get shorter.
The Prime Minister
I simply say to the hon. Gentleman that he should check the transcript of what Sir Paul Stephenson and John Yates said yesterday. They think that Edward Llewellyn behaved entirely appropriately, as do I, and as does the person sitting next to the hon. Gentleman, the right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz).
The Prime Minister
As someone once famously said, I’m enjoying this. The point is that my hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the fact that at the heart of all this is the issue of Milly Dowler. [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. I have been enjoying listening to the questions and answers as well, but I want to continue that enjoyment and to hear what the Prime Minister is saying.
The Prime Minister
I simply wanted to make the point to my hon. Friend that he is right. At the heart of all this, as we have all these debates and discussions, we must bear in mind the victims of phone hacking, chief among whom are the family of Milly Dowler.
Margaret Curran (Glasgow East) (Lab)
May I ask the Prime Minister, in all sincerity, to dissociate himself from the comment of the hon. Member for Wolverhampton South West (Paul Uppal)? I can assure the Prime Minister, despite the debates that are going on here, that there is not one Member on the Opposition Benches who is seeking to make political capital out of the—[Interruption.] Can I ask the Chancellor in particular to pay attention to the last part of my remarks? I can assure this Chamber in the deepest sincerity that I do not believe there is one person in the Chamber seeking to make political capital out of the phone hacking—[Interruption.] I am deeply disappointed that I am not being heard. Let me tell the Prime Minister directly that there is not one person who is willing—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. I must just ask the hon. Lady now to ask a single question in a sentence.
Margaret Curran
Will the Prime Minister dissociate himself from comments that allege that Opposition Members are seeking to make political capital out of the phone hacking of Milly Dowler?
The Prime Minister
I think it is ingenious, after 136 questions, to come up with something entirely new, so I pay tribute to my hon. Friend. I am sure the judge will be able to look at all vested interests and the power that they wield in our country.
Mr Speaker
I thank the Prime Minister and all Members. I was advised that there were 138 Members, but we will settle for 136, who have had the opportunity to question the Prime Minister, and I thank everyone for participating.
Public Confidence in the Media and Police
John Bercow Excerpts(12 years, 9 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Alan Johnson
John Yates wrote to me, as previous Home Secretary, last week. He wrote me a private and confidential letter, in which he said—[Laughter.]
Alan Johnson
I accept that there is a certain paradox involved here.
The letter says:
“The reason that a new investigation has been commenced and the situation has subsequently changed so markedly”—
that is, since the advice given to me as Home Secretary—
“is that in January 2011 News International began to co-operate properly with the police. It is now evident that this was not the case beforehand.”
January 2011 was when Andy Coulson resigned. Does the Prime Minister think that that is just a coincidence?
Mr Speaker
Order. In view of the number of Members seeking to take part in the debate, I have imposed an eight-minute limit on Back-Bench speeches with immediate effect, but I emphasise to the House that that limit is reviewable.
Mr Hunt
We have more independent Select Committees in this Parliament, thanks to the decisions taken by this Government, and that has been shown to have been absolutely the right thing to do. [Interruption.] Will hon. Members let me proceed, please? My hon. Friend raised the important question of whether politicians should be removed from future decisions on media plurality. There is a difficult tension, because those decisions need to be impartial, and they need to be seen to be impartial. In recent months we have found how very difficult that is, whatever independent reports one gets, and however much we follow independent advice from independent regulators. We need to look at how we get the balance right between the accountability of elected officials and making sure that impartial decisions are seen to be made.
I pay credit to the right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz), who has done an excellent job and produced today an excellent but very disturbing report, which talks of a catalogue of failures by the Metropolitan police. What he said about the importance of Sue Akers having all the support that she needs to deal with this very important investigation is absolutely right. He will be reassured by the letter that he has just received, which he kindly showed to me and the Prime Minister, in which Sue Akers says that she has increased the number of officers and staff on the case to 60; that is one of the biggest investigations in the country, and she is constantly reviewing the support that she needs. The whole House will have been slightly amused by the right hon. Gentleman’s comment that the breach of security in the other Committee yesterday may have been the result of police officers appearing before his Select Committee.
An excellent contribution was made by my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Torridge and West Devon (Mr Cox). He made a compelling case, and the Prime Minister said to me in the Tea Room shortly afterwards that every time my hon. and learned Friend speaks, the House of Commons gets thousands of pounds-worth of free legal advice. He made a very important point: it appears that in 2006 the Attorney-General may have known about what my hon. and learned Friend described as a vast array of offending material. His case was powerfully backed up by my hon. Friend the Member for Rochester and Strood (Mark Reckless), who also talked about the potentially inaccurate legal advice given by the Crown Prosecution Service. Those are all things that the inquiry will look into in great detail.
The hon. Member for Ellesmere Port and Neston (Andrew Miller) made an important point about understanding, when making any changes to media regulation, that we are in a new media age, and that it is no longer relevant to look at the concentration of power in only one particular platform or type of media; we have to look at how that power extends across different platforms—a point echoed by my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe (Damian Collins), my right hon. Friend the Member for Bath (Mr Foster) and the hon. Member for East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow (Mr McCann)—I hope I pronounced that last place correctly.
Among a number of important points, my right hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark talked about the “fit and proper person” test. I can confirm that Ofcom applies that test continuously and assiduously. It ruled on a company called Bang Media in November 2010. But I accept that one of the lessons of what has happened in recent weeks is the need for more transparency about how the test is applied, so that the public can have confidence in how it operates. Like the hon. Member for Bassetlaw (John Mann), my right hon. Friend made an important point about the necessity to stamp out completely the whole business of police tip-offs and pay-outs, which has concerned so many people as the issues have arisen.
The right hon. Member for Blackburn (Mr Straw) returned to the question that the Prime Minister addressed continually in his earlier statement about whether there had been discussions about the BSkyB deal. The discussions that the Prime Minister had about the BSkyB deal were irrelevant. They were irrelevant because the person who had the responsibility—[Interruption.] If hon. Members will listen, I will answer the question. [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. Members can try to intervene, but the Secretary of State has the floor.
Mr Hunt
They were irrelevant because the person who was making the decision was myself, and I was making it on my own. This was not a matter of collective responsibility. This was a quasi-judicial process. I wish I could take more decisions completely on my own without any reference to the Prime Minister, the Chancellor or other Cabinet colleagues. This is the only such decision I have ever been privileged to make.
Sir Gerald Kaufman
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Is it in order for a speaker at the Government Dispatch Box to say one thing at one moment and two minutes later totally deny that he said it?
Mr Speaker
I am afraid I must say that it is in order, and that it has in fact been happening for hundreds of years.
Mr Hunt
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
The right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton (Sir Gerald Kaufman) made some very partisan points about the Prime Minister’s chief of staff, but completely failed to mention that the Prime Minister’s chief of staff was acting on the advice of the permanent secretary at No. 10—the most senior permanent secretary in Whitehall. The right hon. Gentleman shared with the House the fact that he was in the Oxford university Labour club with Rupert Murdoch, who was apparently expelled for breaking campaign rules. I am surprised the right hon. Gentleman has not considered referring that to Ofcom under the “fit and proper person” regulations.
The hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant), who has played an important role in the campaign, talked about responsibility for what happens inside corporations —a point echoed by my hon. Friend the Member for Folkestone and Hythe. After yesterday’s evidence, many people had questions about how an organisation such as News Corporation could allow such things to happen without the knowledge of the people at the very top. I do not want to prejudge the inquiry, but there are further questions to be answered on that front.
Parliamentary Commission for Administration and Health Service Commissioner for England
John Bercow Excerpts(12 years, 9 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Sir Peter Bottomley
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Would it be possible for the Chair of the Public Administration Committee to make the point that he was hoping to make?
Mr Speaker
No.
Question put and agreed to.
Resolved,
That an humble Address be presented to Her Majesty, praying that Her Majesty will appoint Dame Julie Mellor to the offices of Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration and Health Service Commissioner for England.
Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration and Health Service Commissioner for England (Remuneration)
Resolved,
That, in the opinion of this House, the salary paid to the Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration and Health Service Commissioner for England should be £152,000 a year, a sum within the range of salaries payable to Permanent Secretaries in the civil service as required by section 2(2) of the Parliamentary Commissioner Act 1967, as amended by the Parliamentary and other Pensions and Salaries Act 1976; and that this should be subject to (a) any relevant increase for Permanent Secretaries recommended by the Senior Salaries Review Body and (b) after the end of the current pay freeze, 1 per cent. annual uprating in lieu of performance pay; and considers that in future, and subject always to the statutory requirements, the remuneration of the Parliamentary Commissioner for Administration and Health Service Commissioner for England should be agreed by the Prime Minister and the Chair of the Public Administration Select Committee in advance of the recruitment process, and reported to the House, prior to the House being invited to agree to an humble Address on such an appointment.—(Mr Hurd.)