Preparations for Leaving the EU
John Bercow Excerpts(4 years, 7 months ago)
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Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
Looking at me imploringly, and now to be heard, is the longest-serving member of the Speaker’s Panel of Chairs: Sir Roger Gale.
Sir Roger Gale (North Thanet) (Con)
You will recall, Mr Speaker, that some weeks ago you afforded me the opportunity to ask the Prime Minister what provision would be made for pension uprating, healthcare and benefits for expat UK citizens. My letter seeking a clarification of the broad-brush answer awaits a response, but I have had the opportunity to read the no-deal readiness report, and not one word in it offers long-term comfort to the thousands of now increasingly frightened and elderly UK citizens living within the rest of the EU. This is not a matter of reciprocal arrangements; it is within the clear gift of the United Kingdom Government to look after our own people. Will my right hon. Friend give a clear undertaking that that will be done?
Michael Gove
Yes, I think it is, but it is also important that if we put to one side the rhetoric that organisations often use to try to secure attention and look in a granular way—[Interruption.]
Michael Gove
Thank you, Mr Speaker. If we put aside the rhetoric for one moment, there are granular issues that local resilience forums and local enterprise partnerships address. I would be very grateful to address those and, indeed, to meet the right hon. Gentleman if there are specific questions that he wants to put and specific easements that he wants to see put in place.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
In order to accommodate as many hon. and right hon. Members as possible, I am now looking for short questions without preamble and comparably pithy replies.
Sir Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)
We have been extremely generous to 3 million EU citizens residing in this country at the point of no deal. Surely our EU partners could be equally generous in providing assurances for 1 million-odd of our citizens living in Europe. They have been threatened with having to reapply for residence next year, and they do not know where they stand.
Several hon. Members rose—
Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (LD)
The document makes it clear that environmental standards will be not only maintained but enhanced. Yesterday, a leaked DEFRA paper, written by civil servants, said that the Department for International Trade would push DEFRA to lower UK standards governing animal welfare and pesticide residues. Does that not indicate that the document is not worth the paper it is written on?
Michael Gove
Absolutely. We could have been out of the European Union with a deal if Opposition Members had backed the Prime Minister, Theresa May, in her efforts.
Mr Speaker
Order. All these references to named individuals are quite improper. The right hon. Gentleman no doubt luxuriated in the lather of the Oxford Union, in which he excelled, and he excels in this House other than in that respect. He should wash his mouth out, and should refer to Ministers not by name but by title, which he is well able to do.
Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)
The Minister is not being straight with us. He has the gall to claim that UK environmental standards post Brexit will be a beacon to the world, but in reality he is planning to cut those standards. The document claims that the carbon price will apply “at a similar level” to that under the EU emissions trading system, but page 64 makes it clear that the new carbon emissions price will be about half the EU price. If the Government are going to cut incentives to tackle the climate crisis, will they at least be honest about it?
Michael Gove
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising the matter. First, let me say that I was not in on that telephone call. Secondly, let me affirm that the Bundeskanzlerin and the Government of the Federal Republic are good friends of this country. I had the opportunity to speak at the German day of national unity event at the German embassy last week, when I affirmed our commitment to friendship and the respect that we have for the German people for their achievements since 1945 as a democracy that we can all admire. Let me take this opportunity, at the Dispatch Box, to dissociate myself entirely from any sort of racist or demeaning language towards Germany. The Germans are our friends and our allies, and Germany is a great country.
Mr Speaker
I must say to the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster that my sense is that that statement will be very warmly welcomed across the House, but also by a great many people outside this place, whatever their view about Brexit. It is important that decorous language is used, and the right hon. Gentleman has just been an exponent of it.
Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Ind)
I agree with my right hon. Friend. As someone who voted for a deal three times, I am pleased to hear that that is still the Government’s policy.
Many people will already have plans for travel beyond 31 October. Notwithstanding point 4 on page 41 of the document, and the answers that he gave my right hon. Friends the Members for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller) and for North Thanet (Sir Roger Gale), will the Minister say how many reciprocal healthcare deals have been signed, and how many memorandums of understanding are likely to be signed, before 31 October?
Michael Gove
The hon. Gentleman makes an important point. The key thing is that we will be taking a continuity approach towards the flow of goods into this country. We will not be administering checks for the EU when EU businesses export to us. The EU will, of course, impose checks under its acquis, although the French authorities, for example, have ensured that the border inspection posts for shellfish will be in Boulogne-sur-Mer. That means that fish caught in Scotland on Tuesday can be on sale in France on Wednesday without any impairment.
Michael Gove
My hon. Friend makes a good point. I will take it up with the Health Secretary to ensure that the support that we already give can be extended in precisely the cases that he mentions.
Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)
The intransigence of the Irish Government and the EU has resulted in the comprehensive proposals put forward by the Prime Minister and the compromises that were required being rejected. In the light of that, will the Minister think again about his policy of not imposing duties on goods coming from the Irish Republic, in order to protect producers in Northern Ireland and put some pressure on the Irish Government to be realistic?
Michael Gove
I entirely appreciate the force of the case that the right hon. Gentleman makes, but it is our judgment that we should not impose additional checks or tariffs on goods coming from Ireland into Northern Ireland.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
I congratulate my right hon. Friend on his documents and on his crisp and effective chairmanship of the daily XO—EU exit operations—committees. I notice that he talks about the environmental safeguards in great detail. Does he think, therefore, that the current desecration of Cubbington Wood by HS2, despite the moratorium, might be better controlled after Brexit?
Michael Gove
As one former Member of this House said to a foreign potentate, I admire my hon. Friend’s courage, his strength and his indefatigability in being able to insert HS2 into every question, and he knows my views on that matter.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
Order. I remind the House that only last week the hon. Member for Canterbury (Rosie Duffield) made a speech that brought hope and will have changed, and will change, lives. Colleagues, if you did not hear it, you missed something.
Rosie Duffield (Canterbury) (Lab)
Thank you, Mr Speaker. In the light of recent fake news from the Prime Minister about a shiny new hospital in Canterbury, which currently has no A&E or urgent treatment centres, can the Minister please guarantee that, with the possible chaos resulting from Operation Brock, my constituents will still be able to get to the William Harvey Hospital in Ashford for the urgent care that they desperately need?
Michael Gove
They should pay attention and do everything they are asked to by the outstanding Member of Parliament for Walsall North.
Mr Speaker
There will come a time when the right hon. Gentleman will want the hon. Gentleman’s vote. I do not know when that will be, but the time will come.
Mr Speaker
Ah, the right hon. Gentleman has a new ambition. It is percolating in my head.
Peter Grant (Glenrothes) (SNP)
First, may I indicate that, with your permission, Mr Speaker, I intend to raise a point of order at the end of this item of business about comments made by the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster earlier that were deeply offensive to me and many others? However, given the damage that has been done to relationships between the United Kingdom and Germany by the deliberate, malicious and almost certainly inaccurate leaking of a private phone call between the two Heads of Government, will he, the next time he speaks to his very good friend the Minister for the Cabinet Office, ask how quickly we can be given a statement by the Cabinet Office that confirms that the culprit—there are only two possible suspects—has been identified and removed from No. 10 before they can do any more damage?
Brexit Negotiations
John Bercow Excerpts(4 years, 7 months ago)
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Christian Matheson (City of Chester) (Lab)
Can the Prime Minister not accept that a customs post that is sited 20 miles away from a border still represents a hard border and therefore goes against the Good Friday agreement? Why is he willing to prioritise Brexit against the Good Friday agreement?
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
Order. Colleagues, I am very grateful to the large number of people who have come up to the Chair expressing concern about my throat. Their generosity of spirit and humanity are much appreciated, but I want to confirm to the House that the state of my throat, which is purely temporary, is not down to the consumption of a kangaroo’s testicle. I would not eat it; it would probably be poisoned.
Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)
Mr Speaker, I am glad to hear it.
The devil will be in the detail, but I very much congratulate my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister on his improved proposals as a basis for a deal. However, in straining every sinew to secure a good deal, will he be resolute not only in his intent to honour the triggering of article 50 by an overwhelming majority in this place, which clearly stated that we would leave with or without a deal, but in ensuring that we are prepared for no deal? It is inescapable logic that being so prepared improves the chances of securing such a deal, despite the fact that that logic escapes the Opposition parties.
Several hon. Members rose—
Neil O’Brien (Harborough) (Con)
Thank you very much for the personal compliment, Mr Speaker.
The former Liberal Democrat MEP, Andrew Duff, who is the president of the very influential Spinelli group of European federalists, has responded positively to the Prime Minister’s proposals this morning. He said that they are politically astute and that they represent a potential landing zone for a deal. Does the Prime Minister agree that that is positive and that those of us in this House who want a deal and want to avoid no deal now need to respond positively and to engage with his proposals, rather than dismissing them out of hand without even having read the final text?
The Prime Minister
That is indeed the case, as the hon. Gentleman will understand, but if he invites me to draw an analogy with the people of Scotland, I remind him that the people of Scotland were repeatedly promised that their referendum was a once-in-a-generation question.
Mr Speaker
In thanking the Prime Minister and colleagues, I would just say that there are issues of substance and issues of tone. The substance of policy is absolutely not a matter for the Chair, but I would like to say that the tone of yesterday’s very important debate on the Government’s Domestic Abuse Bill, and the tone of the exchanges today, represent a huge improvement on last week. I thank the Prime Minister and colleagues.
Sir Peter Bottomley
It may not be necessary, but it is a courtesy to say that we appreciate that your calm, quiet voice was just as effective as other voices that you have, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker
Why did I not realise in advance how generous the hon. Gentleman was going to be? I thank him for what he said; it is very much appreciated.
Prime Minister's Role in Creating a Safe Environment
John Bercow Excerpts(4 years, 7 months ago)
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Urgent Questions are proposed each morning by backbench MPs, and up to two may be selected each day by the Speaker. Chosen Urgent Questions are announced 30 minutes before Parliament sits each day.
Each Urgent Question requires a Government Minister to give a response on the debate topic.
This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record
Mr Speaker
I referred earlier to events in the Chamber yesterday, and what I am about to say I say as much for the benefit of those observing our proceedings as for Members of the House, as I think it extremely important that our proceedings are accessible to the people who are interested in them. In the light of the appalling atmosphere in the Chamber yesterday, and the toxicity that that can spawn or exacerbate in the country at large, I have granted an urgent question to the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips), which treats of this matter. In my book, it is manifestly urgent.
Jess Phillips (Birmingham, Yardley) (Lab)
(Urgent Question): I had wanted to ask the Prime Minister, but I shall ask the Minister if he will ask the Prime Minister to reflect on his language and role as Prime Minister to create a safe environment both in our country and our country’s Parliament.
Kevin Foster
My right hon. Friend makes a valid point: it is for all of us to look at how we contribute to respectful debate in this Chamber. Of course when it comes to what happens in this Chamber, Mr Speaker, it is you and your deputies who ensure that Members stick to the code of conduct and, of course, you have taken action when you believe that that is not occurring. Ultimately, it is about—certainly for the Government—not just this place, but the whole of democratic debate. There are people who will be thinking of doing their democratic duty, as they see it, in standing for this place and in giving their fellow citizens a chance to vote for a particular set of policies who will know that, in doing so, they will have their arguments, their thoughts and their proposals put to the test, but what should not be put to the test is just how thick a skin they have.
Mr Speaker
What the Minister has said is absolutely right: that code of conduct has to be enforced and, indeed, as far as the Chamber is concerned, adjudicated by the Chair. The record is clear and the evidence is there for all to see. People can observe week after week after week after week that there can be abuses on both sides—for example, during Prime Minister’s questions—and every time without fail the Chair intervenes to seek to restore order. It has been the case; it is the case; and it will always be the case. It is not a matter of party politics; it is a matter of procedural propriety, and that is the way that it must continue to be.
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)
I start by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips) on securing this urgent question.
It is extremely disappointing that the Prime Minister has not respected this House by attending here today. His language and demeanour yesterday were, frankly, nothing short of disgraceful. Three years ago, our colleague—our Member of Parliament—Jo Cox was murdered by a far right activist, shouting, “Britain First. This is for Britain.” The language that politicians use matters and has real consequences. To dismiss concerns from Members about the death threats that they receive and to dismiss concerns that the language used by the Prime Minister is being repeated in those death threats is reprehensible. To dismiss those concerns in an abusive way, as he did, is completely unacceptable. I pay tribute to my hon. Friends the Members for Dewsbury (Paula Sherriff) and for Batley and Spen (Tracy Brabin), and other Members, including the right hon. Member for Broxtowe (Anna Soubry), for what they said yesterday.
Today, I have written to all Members of the parliamentary Labour party expressing solidarity with my friends and setting out the conduct expected of all colleagues. No part of this House, as you have said, Mr Speaker, has a monopoly of virtue. Inappropriate language has been used by all parties, but we all have a duty to keep our debates political and not to descend into personal abuse.
I disagreed profoundly with the previous Prime Minister, but she did offer cross-party talks to try to find a compromise. She also set out her approach to this House, allowing for scrutiny and debate. I was pleased to participate in a meeting with her and other party leaders about conduct and abuse in the House and around the parliamentary estate. The current Prime Minister, unfortunately, has sought to entrench divisions, refused to set out any detail of the deal that he is seeking and continues to pledge that we will leave with no deal on 31 October, despite the fact that this House has voted against, and legislated against, such an outcome. Not only should he comply with the law, but he should come to this House and apologise for his conduct yesterday, which fell well below the standards expected by the people of this country of the way their elected representatives should behave, should speak and should treat each other.
Kevin Foster
I have outlined what the Government are doing, but the Leader of the Opposition mentioned the murder of Jo Cox—a dreadful crime committed by an extremist. Many of us who were in the House at that time remember exactly where we were when we heard the news of that appalling attack—in my case, I was attending a constituency event. In the same way, many from a previous generation of politics remember where they were when they heard that our colleagues Anthony Berry, Robert Buckland and Airey Neave had been assassinated by those looking to bring terror to this country.
The biggest issue is that delay will just bring more division to this country—
Kevin Foster
I apologise. Thank you for correcting me, Mr Speaker.
In terms of how the Government are tackling this issue, we do need to bring a resolution to debates. As the Leader of the Opposition will know, the Government were clear that we were prepared to take our arguments to the country on Tuesday 15 October and to ask the electorate to pass a judgment. That would have not only given us a chance to resolve the division affecting this House, but given the country a way to move forward. As you yourself have reflected, Mr Speaker, the passions that this issue has inflamed will only carry on if there is not a resolution.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Kenneth Clarke (Rushcliffe) (Ind)
I was only just beginning to stir, Mr Speaker. You spotted me rather promptly!
What concerns me is whether there is any sense of a deliberate strategy in all this. I would like my hon. Friend to reassure me. I assure him that I have been a junior Minister myself, so I do realise he is probably not consulted closely about strategy—I am not sure many members of the Cabinet have much idea of what the strategy is at the moment. Can he allay two fears that I have?
First, it seems to me that the Prime Minister is absolutely desperate to have an election before 31 October, so that he can fight it before the chance of some untoward effects after that date. Also, I fear that the strategy is to fight it on the people versus Parliament platform that Nigel Farage invented and that we are imitating. Will my hon. Friend assure me that what happened yesterday was one of those occasions when people lost control of themselves and the House, not for the first time, erupted in disorder and that this is not part of some grand discrediting of the usual political institutions in order to fight a populist and nationalist campaign?
Kevin Foster
As a junior Minister, it is always good to benefit from the advice of the Father of the House. I reassure him that the Government’s strategy is to do what the vast majority of the nation want, which is to bring a resolution to Brexit and deliver the referendum result. I know that the Father of the House has voted for deals and has seen that as compromising and moving forward. The Government will look to fight a general election on a platform of resolving Brexit, no more pointless delay, bringing 20,000 extra police officers on to our streets, increasing school funding and taking our economy forward. I have to say that our platform will be far stronger than that of the Opposition.
Mr Speaker
Having called the Father of the House, I want now to call the Mother of the House.
Ms Harriet Harman (Camberwell and Peckham) (Lab)
I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips) for bringing forward this urgent question and you, Mr Speaker, for your comments last night and your comments from the Chair this morning. I agree with everything the Father of the House said. I think that what happened last night was just an ugly spectacle of things that have been happening for months and months getting even worse. We all know that hon. Members from all parts of the House have felt inhibited in doing the work that they are elected to this place to do. It is important—it is essential—that everybody who is elected to this House is able to speak out without fear or favour to say what they believe in. Nobody in this House should do anything that stops any other Member exercising that right. Whether it is threats to people who are remainers or people in balaclavas bursting into a university meeting that was being addressed by the Leader of the House, we cannot allow it in our democracy. Nor can we have a situation where Members are fearful not only for themselves and their own safety, but for their staff and their families.
The Minister has mentioned a number of initiatives. Heaven knows, we have had enough discussion and wringing our hands about these problems over the months in this Chamber. We have had a number of initiatives, but there is a lack of coherence and focus for action. That is why the Father of the House and I have proposed a Speaker’s conference that brings together the police, the Crown Prosecution Service, the House authorities and the parties to look at what can be done to ensure that we protect our democracy. It also needs to look at our political culture. We know, for example, that we cannot call each other blackguard, guttersnipe, stoolpigeon or various other things. We need rules of this House that are updated and that protect us and enable us to do our business today.
Mr Speaker
Colleagues, I will call a few more Members, but what is needed is a single-sentence question from each.
Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) (Ind)
I fear I might be repetitive because last night I asked my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister whether it was not just about language but about tone. I commend my hon. Friend the Minister for his tone today, but how would he suggest that I should respond to those in the beautiful marketplace of Romsey who three Saturdays ago told me I was a traitor who deserved to be shot, when the language of “traitor” is heard in this House?
Vicky Ford
Please, Mr Speaker, will you continue to make sure that you are fair and balanced, because sometimes it does not feel like that? [Interruption.] Secondly, please will all Members, including those on our Front Bench, dial down the language? Thirdly, please can we all work together to heal the divisions in our country, and that means respecting democracy? Fourthly, because it matters, please can we bring the Domestic Abuse Bill back to the House?
Mr Speaker
Let me just very gently say to the House that, as experienced Members know, there was a time when statements did not run for very long and not many Members were called. That has changed, and over the last decade I have called nearly everybody most of the time. The idea that if you do not call everyone every time they want to speak, that is somehow unfair, is so manifestly absurd that I think that most of the House would recognise it as such. I do what I can to stand up for the rights of this House and those of right hon. and hon. Members on both sides of it. I have done that for a decade; I am doing it now; and I will go on doing it. I am standing up for the important principle of the decency of our democracy, and I should have thought that that was pretty fair.
Kevin Foster
Let me first compliment my hon. Friend the Member for Chelmsford (Vicky Ford) on the work that she does, as chair of the all-party parliamentary group on women in Parliament, to ensure that the views of women both inside and outside Parliament are heard.
Yes, this is about having a calm and dignified debate, taking the challenge in the way it is meant and responding to it in a dignified way. The Government are seeking to work together to heal the divisions by bringing an end to the Brexit process, and doing so by delivering the result of the referendum. The longer the delay and indecision continue, the more, sadly, this argument will continue.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
Order. We have another statement to follow in a moment from the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy. There is also a motion to be voted on and a further debate, so we must proceed. I regret that, because I like to hear everybody, but there is a moment of interruption today in a way that there was not yesterday. We could extend yesterday, but we cannot do so today and I have to take account of that. So unless there is a point of order appertaining to this particular exchange—
David T. C. Davies (Monmouth) (Con)
Can I make a point of order, Mr Speaker?
David T. C. Davies
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Could you confirm that it would be unacceptable under any circumstances for a senior Member of this House to say of a female MP: “We should lynch the bastard”?
Mr Speaker
Yes. That would be totally unacceptable. I am not aware of the particular circumstance to which the hon. Gentleman is referring, but I can confirm that that is totally unacceptable.
Mr Speaker
No, I am not going to take a whole series of points of order—[Interruption.] Sorry, no, I am now going to proceed with the statement from the Secretary of State—[Interruption.] Order. I do not require assistance from the hon. Gentleman. We come now to the statement by the Secretary of State for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy. [Interruption.] Order. If people who are leaving the Chamber would please do so quickly and quietly, we can attend to the terms of the statement from the Secretary of State. I think there is now something approaching calm.
Principles of Democracy and the Rights of the Electorate
John Bercow Excerpts(4 years, 7 months ago)
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Mr Speaker
We come now to the general debate on principles of democracy and the rights of the electorate. We have until 5 o’clock. I have spoken to the Minister, who has undertaken to try to deliver an economical speech, although of course he does have the Floor and it is important that we hear the Government’s position.
Prime Minister's Update
John Bercow Excerpts(4 years, 7 months ago)
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The Prime Minister (Boris Johnson)
Thank you, Mr Speaker. [Hon. Members: “Resign!”] If they want a change of Government, let them have an election. [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. There will be ample opportunity for everybody who wants to question the Prime Minister, in conformity with usual practice, to do so, but the statement must and will be heard.
The Prime Minister
Thank you, Mr Speaker. With your permission, I shall make a statement on yesterday’s Supreme Court verdict and the way forward for this paralysed Parliament.
Three years ago, more people voted to leave the European Union than had ever voted for any party or proposition in our history. Politicians of all parties promised the public that they would honour the result. Sadly, many have since done all they can to abandon those promises and to overturn that democratic vote. After three years of dither and delay that have left this country at risk of being locked forever in the orbit of the EU, this Government that I lead have been trying truly to get us out. Most people, including most supporters of the Labour party, regardless of how they voted three years ago, think the referendum must be respected. They want Brexit done, I want Brexit done, and people want us out on 31 October, with a new deal if possible, but without one if necessary.
Some 64 days ago, I was told that Brussels would never reopen the withdrawal agreement; we are now discussing a reopened withdrawal agreement in the negotiations. I was told that Brussels would never consider alternatives to the backstop—the trap that keeps the UK effectively in the EU but with no say; we are now discussing those alternatives in the negotiations. I was told that Brussels would never consider arrangements that were not permanent; we are now discussing in the negotiations an arrangement that works on the principle of consent and is not permanent. I was told that there was no chance of a new deal, but we are discussing a new deal, in spite of the best efforts of the Labour party and this Parliament to wreck our negotiations by their attempts to take no deal off the table.
The truth is that a majority of Opposition Members are opposed not to the so-called no deal; this Parliament does not want Brexit to happen at all. Many of those who voted for the surrender Act a few weeks ago said then that their intention was to stop a no-deal Brexit. They have said every day since that Parliament must vote against any deal at all. The people of this country can see very clearly what is going on. People at home know—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. People are gesticulating wildly. I can scarcely hear the Prime Minister myself, and I wish to hear the statement, as other colleagues should also wish to do.
The Prime Minister
The people of this country can see perfectly clearly what is going on. They know that Parliament does not want to honour its promises to respect the referendum. The people at home know that this Parliament will keep delaying, and it will keep sabotaging the negotiations, because Members do not want a deal.
The truth is that Opposition Members are living in a fantasy world. They really imagine that somehow they are going to cancel—[Interruption.] This is what they want to do. They are going to cancel the first referendum and legislate for a second referendum, and Parliament will promise—this is what the hon. Lady opposite said—that this time it really, really will respect that vote. They think that the public will therefore vote to remain, and everybody will forget the last few years.
I have to say, Mr Speaker, that that is an extraordinary delusion and a fantasy, a fantasy even greater than the communist fantasies peddled by the Leader of the Opposition. It will not happen. The public do not want another referendum. What they want, and what they demand, is that we honour the promise we made to the voters to respect the first referendum. They also want us to move on: to put Brexit behind us and to focus on the NHS, on violent crime, and on cutting the cost of living.
That is why I brought forward a Queen’s Speech. This Government intend to present a programme for life after Brexit, but some Members could not stand that either. Instead of facing the voters, the Opposition turned tail and fled from an election. Instead of deciding to let the voters decide, they ran to the courts. And despite the fact that I followed the exact same process as my predecessors in calling a Queen’s Speech, the Supreme Court was asked to intervene in that process for the first time ever. It is absolutely no disrespect to the judiciary to say that I think that the court was wrong to pronounce on what is essentially a political question, at a time—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. Whatever the strength and intensity of feeling and the passions to which these matters give rise, we must hear what is being said in the Chamber, and I wish to hear the Prime Minister.
The Prime Minister
I think that the court was wrong to pronounce on what is essentially a political question, at a time of great national controversy.
So we have Opposition Members who block and delay everything, running to the courts to block and delay even more measures, including legislation to improve and invest in our NHS, and to keep violent criminals in jail. I think that the people outside this House understand what is happening. They know that nothing can disguise the truth.
It is not just that this Parliament is gridlocked, paralysed, and refusing to deliver on the priorities of the people. It is not just unable to move forward. It is worse than that, Mr Speaker. Out of sheer political selfishness and political cowardice, Opposition Members are unwilling to move aside and give the people a say. They see MPs demanding that the people be given a say one week, and then running away from the election that would provide the people with a say. Worst of all, they see ever more elaborate legal and political manoeuvres from the Labour party, which is determined, absolutely determined, to say “We know best”, and to thumb their noses at the 17.4 million people who voted to leave the European Union.
The Leader of the Opposition and his party do not trust the people. The Leader of the Opposition and his party are determined to throw out the referendum result, whatever the cost. They do not care about the bill for hundreds of millions of pounds that will come with every week of delay. They do not care if another year or more is wasted in arguing about a referendum that happened three years ago. All that matters to them now is an obsessive desire to overrule the referendum result. While we want to take our country up a gear—to go forward with a fantastic programme, an accelerated programme of investment in infrastructure, health, education and technology, they are throwing on the hand brake.
We will not betray the people who sent us here; we will not. That is what the Opposition want to do. We will not abandon the priorities that matter to the public, and we will continue to challenge those Opposition parties to uphold democracy. If Opposition Members so disagreed with this Government’s commitment to leaving on 31 October, they had a very simple remedy at their disposal, did they not? They could have voted for a general election. I confess that I was a little shocked to discover that the party whose members stood up in Brighton this week and repeatedly, and in the most strident terms, demanded an election—I heard them—is the very same party whose members already this month, not once but twice, refused to allow the people to decide on their next Government. For two years they have demanded an election, but twice they have voted against it.
The Leader of the Opposition changes his mind so often, I wonder whether he supports an election today, or whether the shadow Chancellor, or the shadow Attorney General, have overruled him again because they know that the voters will judge their manifesto for what it is—more pointless delay. Perhaps he is going to demand an election and then vote against it—just as he says that he wants to negotiate a new Brexit deal and then vote against that, too. Is he actually going to vote no confidence in this Government? Is he going to dodge a vote of no confidence in me as Prime Minister, in order to escape the verdict of the voters? I wonder, does he in his heart even want to be Prime Minister any more? He says that I should go to Brussels on 17 October and negotiate another pointless delay, but he does not want to go himself. And even if he did, his colleagues would not let him, because quite frankly they recoil at the idea of him negotiating on the people’s behalf, representing this country with the likes of Vladimir Putin, let alone the EU or the mullahs of Tehran.
Or is it perhaps that he wants a Conservative Government? It would be a curious state of affairs indeed if Her Majesty’s loyal Opposition had every faith in the Government of the day. So if in fact the party opposite does not have confidence in the Government, it will have a chance to prove it. It has until the House rises—[Interruption.] I think they should listen. It has until the House rises today to table a motion of no confidence in the Government—[Interruption.] Come on! Come on, then. And we can have that vote tomorrow. Or if any of the smaller parties fancy a go, they can table that motion and we will give them the time for a vote. Will they have the courage to act, or will they refuse to take responsibility and do nothing but dither and delay? Why wouldn’t they act? What are they scared of? If that is what you are scared of, then have the—
Mr Speaker
Order. I appeal to the House to have some regard to how our proceedings are viewed by people watching them in the country at large. [Interruption.] Order. Let the remainder of the statement be heard. I am grateful for the Prime Minister’s exhortation but I do not require it; I am perfectly content. What I want to hear is the rest of the statement and then questioning on it.
The Prime Minister
Mr Speaker, thank you. As I commend this statement to the House, I say it is time to get Brexit done. Get Brexit done, so we respect the referendum. Get Brexit done, so we can move on to deal with the people’s priorities—the NHS, the cost of living. Let’s get Brexit done so we can start to reunite this country after the divisions of the referendum, rather than having another one. It is time for this Parliament finally to take responsibility for its decisions. We decided to call that referendum. We promised time and again to respect it. I think the people of this country have had enough of it. This Parliament must either stand aside and let this Government get Brexit done, or bring a vote of confidence and finally face the day of reckoning with the voters.
I commend this statement to the House.
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)
I thank the Prime Minister for giving me an advance copy of his statement. Unfortunately, it was like his illegal shutting down of Parliament—“null” and
“of no effect and should be quashed”,
in the words of the Supreme Court. This was 10 minutes of bluster from a dangerous Prime Minister who thinks he is above the law, but in truth he is not fit for the office he holds. I am glad to see so many colleagues back here doing what they were elected to do: holding the Government to account for their failings. Whether it is their attempt to shut down democracy, their sham Brexit negotiations, their chaotic and inadequate no-deal preparations, the allegations of corruption, their failure on climate change or their failure to step in to save Thomas Cook, this Government are failing the people of Britain, and the people of Britain know it—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. I said that the Prime Minister should not be shouted down. The same goes for the Leader of the Opposition. Let me say to people bellowing from a sedentary position: stop it—you will exhaust your vocal cords, you will get nowhere, it will not work, and these proceedings will continue for as long as is necessary for the Chair to be satisfied that proper scrutiny has taken place. It is as simple and incontrovertible as that.
Jeremy Corbyn
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Yesterday’s Supreme Court verdict represents an extraordinary and, I believe, precarious moment in this country’s history. The highest court in this land has found that the Prime Minister broke the law when he tried to shut down our democratic accountability at a crucial moment in our public life. The judges concluded that there was no reason,
“let alone a good reason”,
for the Prime Minister to have shut down Parliament. After yesterday’s ruling, the Prime Minister should have done the honourable thing and resigned, yet here he is—forced back to this House to rightfully face the scrutiny he tried to avoid—with no shred of remorse or humility and, of course, no substance whatsoever.
Let us see if he will answer some questions. Does the Prime Minister agree with his Attorney General that the Government “got it wrong”, or with the Leader of the House that the Supreme Court committed a “constitutional coup”? This is a vital question about whether the Government respect the judiciary or not.
The Attorney General was categorical that the Government would comply with the European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019. Can the Prime Minister confirm that?
I pay tribute to those MPs from all parties across the House, to the Lords and to those in the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly who have not only fought so hard to stop a disastrous no deal, but continued to take the case against Prorogation through the courts. The Government have failed to silence our democracy.
During the period of unlawful Prorogation, the Government were forced to release their Yellowhammer no-deal analysis and plans. No wonder the Prime Minister has been so eager to avoid scrutiny and hide the dangers of his Brexit plan. The release of those documents leads to many questions that the Government must answer now that our Parliament is back in operation.
I would like to start by asking the Prime Minister why the Government in August described leaked Yellowhammer documents as out of date. When the documents were produced in September, they were word for word the same. It is clear that they have tried to hide from the people the truth—the real truth—of a no-deal Brexit and the fact that their policy would heap misery on the people of this country.
Let us take a look at the analysis: chaos at Britain’s ports, with months of disruption; people going short of fuel and fresh foods—[Interruption.] It is your paper, you wrote it and you tried to hide it. [Interruption.] I beg your pardon, Mr Speaker—I do not hold you responsible for writing the document. There would be disruption of people’s vital medical supplies, rises in energy prices for every household in the country, and a hard border for the people of Northern Ireland and the Republic of Ireland.
Most damning of all is the passage that simply says:
“Low income groups will be disproportionately affected”.
There we have it, Mr Speaker: a simple warning, a simple truth, that a Tory Government are continuing to follow a policy they know will hit the poorest people in our country the hardest. They simply do not care.
The damning document we have seen is only six pages long. It is only right that this House should expect more transparency from the Government.
The Government say that they are doing all they can to get a deal before 31 October, but the truth is that the Prime Minister has put hardly any effort into negotiations. Any progress looks, at the most generous, to be minimal. Only yesterday, the European Union’s chief negotiator, Michel Barnier, said that there was
“no reason today for optimism”.
Why does the Prime Minister believe Mr Barnier has that view? This House is still yet to hear any detail of any deal the Government seek to negotiate. We are told the Government have distributed papers to Brussels outlining proposals for a change to the backstop. Will the Prime Minister publish these papers and allow them to be debated in this House of Parliament? For this Government to have any credibility with our people, they need to show they have an actual plan.
The Prime Minister also has questions to answer about his conduct in public office and, in particular, about allegations that he failed to declare an interest in the allocation of public money to a close friend while he was Mayor of London. It was announced today that, in the light of the Sunday Times report, the Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport is reviewing the funds allocated. Did the Prime Minister initiate that review? Will he fully co-operate with the DCMS review and that of the London Assembly? Will he refer himself to the Cabinet Secretary for investigation? No Prime Minister is above the law.
No one can trust the Prime Minister, not on Iran, not on Thomas Cook, not on climate change and not on Brexit. For the good of this country—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. The Leader of the Opposition is entitled to be heard in this Parliament, and he will be heard. [Interruption.] Order. I do not mind how long it takes, these exchanges will take place in an orderly manner. Be in no doubt about that.
Jeremy Corbyn
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Quite simply, for the good of this country, the Prime Minister should go. He says he wants a general election. I want a general election. It is very simple: if he wants an election, get an extension and let us have an election.
Mr Iain Duncan Smith (Chingford and Woodford Green) (Con)
May I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. I appeal to Members of the House to calm themselves. I just called the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green. He is entitled to put his question, and the rest of us are entitled to hear him. Mr Iain Duncan Smith.
Mr Duncan Smith
May I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister on his very good put-down of the shallow Leader of the Opposition? I understand that his Government have changed the root origin of the term “yellowhammer” to describe the botched attempt by the Leader of the Opposition to dispatch his own deputy. I received and saw in my constituency, as others did recently, leaflets from the Labour party calling for a general election now. Can my right hon. Friend give me any reason why we are not having an election at this point? Does he think for a moment that it could be because the Leader of the Opposition fears his own party just as much as he fears us?
Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) (SNP)
I thank the Prime Minister for an advance copy of his statement. When I read the first paragraph, it talked about the Supreme Court verdict. It was not the Supreme Court verdict; it was the judgment of the Supreme Court. Perhaps the Prime Minister might start to show some respect for the judiciary. We are here today because the Prime Minister was utterly humiliated by the Supreme Court, by a count of 11 to zero. Members might have thought, in that diatribe that we had, that we would have some humility and that we might have been able to acknowledge that what we have had is the unlawful shutting-down of Parliament. Mr Speaker, sorry is indeed the hardest word for the Prime Minister.
It was said by a former Prime Minister that where law ends, tyranny begins. It pains me to say it, but the fact that the Prime Minister is still standing here today shows that he does in fact believe he is above the law. Well, he is not. Thank heavens for the action that was brought in the courts in Scotland and England, and I pay tribute to my hon. and learned Friend the Member for Edinburgh South West (Joanna Cherry). Thank goodness the courts have done their job and made sure that parliamentarians are back where they should be, in this House, holding the Government to account.
The ruling of the Supreme Court has made it absolutely crystal clear: the actions of this Government and this Prime Minister led to the unlawful Prorogation of Parliament. Delivering the verdict, Lady Hale stated that Prorogation was null and void. Have you no shame, Prime Minister? The court concluded that the decision was unlawful because it had
“the effect of frustrating or preventing, without reasonable justification, the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions”.
The Prime Minister talks about us running off to the courts. Well, we got the courts to do what he failed to do, which was to respect parliamentary sovereignty. The court talked of
“frustrating or preventing, without reasonable justification, the ability of Parliament to carry out its constitutional functions”
How devastating for a Prime Minister to have such a judgment. Where law ends, tyranny begins. Yet, the Prime Minister said he did not agree with the courts. He only agrees with his cronies in No. 10—his Brexit-obsessed fan club. He cannot pick and choose when it comes to the law; he must obey the law. That is not leadership; he quite simply is not fit for office.
I hear the Prime Minister talking about a surrender Act. How despicable that, when he refers to Members of this House who are doing their duty to protect our constituents, he uses language such as “surrender”. That language is not suitable for the Prime Minister of any country.
The Prime Minister’s position is no longer tenable. His failure to resign is an embarrassment. People have had enough of this shambles. We have reached a difficult and dangerous point—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. The right hon. Gentleman leads the third party in this House. He has a right to be heard. He will continue his contribution and he will be heard, however long it takes. If the message has to be repeated again and again and again ad infinitum, so be it. He will be heard—end of subject.
Ian Blackford
I am much obliged, Mr Speaker.
We have reached a difficult and dangerous point, not just in relation to the Brexit crisis, but for the constitutional future of these islands and, indeed, the future of our democracy. We have a Prime Minister standing here in a Parliament that he sought to silence. People across these countries will be reading today about how the Prime Minister fought the law, but the law won. The Prime Minister, the Head of Government, is responsible for the law and responsible for governance. What an example he is to the public! Let me be clear to the Prime Minister that he should resign, but if he fails to do so, yes, the Opposition must unite to trigger a vote of no confidence to bring this chaotic Government down. By triggering a vote of no confidence, we will ensure that the Benn Act is honoured to take no deal off the table by allowing the Opposition to install an interim leader to take back control and to protect our economy from the cliff edge. The Scottish National party fully supports stopping no deal—it is our priority.
Let me be clear to Members on these Benches: we are not powerless. Doing nothing is not an option. This is the time for leadership. Once we have removed the Prime Minister and removed the threat of no deal, the people must have their say, through a general election, as quickly as possible. We must unstick this mess and we must trust the people to make their choice. We cannot trust this Prime Minister; his time must be up. His days of lying, cheating and undermining the rule of law must be numbered—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order, order! Just for the avoidance of doubt, I am sure that the right hon. Gentleman will not state in this House that the Prime Minister has lied in the House. He must not do so—[Interruption.] Order, order! That is the procedural position. He did not say that, but he did refer to lying. I know that he cannot be referring to it in the context of the exchanges in this House. A nod of the head to confirm that my interpretation is correct will suffice and he can then proceed with the rest of his questioning.
Ian Blackford
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
I have one question for the Prime Minister for now. Do the right thing, and do it now. Prime Minister, end this dictatorship. Will you now resign?
Mr Speaker
Order. I apologise for interrupting the hon. Gentleman, but he, too, must be heard. I want to hear his question and the answer to it.
Sir William Cash
The Supreme Court mentioned that the Prorogation had an extreme effect on the fundamentals of our democracy. Does my right hon. Friend accept that it is more than an extreme and undemocratic effect for Parliament itself to tear up its own Standing Order No. 14, because the priority that that Standing Order gives to Government business, as compared with private Members’ business such as the surrender Act, derives exclusively from the fundamental democracy of the voters of this country in general elections, and to remedy this, they must be given an early general election to decide who governs this country?
Mr Owen Paterson (North Shropshire) (Con)
The people were told in the general election in 2015, during the passage of the European Union Referendum Bill through this House and during the referendum itself that we, the MPs, would give them the decision, that it would be a final decision and that whatever the result was, we, the MPs, would honour it. The crisis we have is that for the first time ever, the people have not obediently and politely gone along with what the establishment wanted. We have seen the political establishment in this House, the commercial establishment and now the judicial establishment go against the will of the people. They are angry. They feel thwarted by the establishment. [Interruption.] Does the Prime Minister agree that the only answer is to leave on—
Mr Speaker
Order. [Interruption.] The right hon. Gentleman persisted, but he was entitled to be fully heard. I hope he is content.
Mr Speaker
I did my best to help the right hon. Gentleman—go on, blurt out the last sentence, man!
Mr Paterson
Does the Prime Minister agree that the only way to resolve this crisis is to leave the European Union on 31 October by taking back control, leaving the customs union, leaving the single market and leaving the remit of the European Court of Justice, as we promised in our election manifesto?
Mr Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield) (Ind)
Whatever policy differences the Prime Minister may have with others, he may agree that he has an absolute duty to observe and uphold the rule of law. Whatever self-justifications he may have advanced today, he may also have to accept that in the matter of proroguing this House, he failed to do that. In those circumstances, would he now like to take the opportunity, rather than condemning the European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Bill as a surrender Bill, to assure the House—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. Let it be said with crystal clarity including to occupants of the Treasury Bench—[Interruption.] Yes, here we go. The right hon. and learned Gentleman will be heard. He will not be shouted down by people from his own Benches. That sort of behaviour is intolerable and it is obviously so to most remotely reasonable people.
Mr Speaker
I am going to try to be helpful to the hon. Gentleman, who is a most dedicated and assiduous Member of two years’ standing. We do not have points of order in the middle of exchanges. I will try to provide a tutorial to the hon. Gentleman on another occasion, but the right hon. Lady will not be prevented from asking her question. She is asking her question and it will be heard, and the hon. Gentleman will sit quietly and listen.
Liz Saville Roberts
I think the House will find this relevant. In 2004 the Prime Minister, who was the MP for Henley at the time, wrote a column in The Daily Telegraph in which he argued that Tony Blair should be impeached, as he
“treated Parliament and the public with contempt”
over the matter of disclosure of motives and legal advice relating to the Iraq war. The right hon. Gentleman even edited a copy of The Spectator that called for Blair to be impeached for lying. He also signed an impeachment motion—
Mr Speaker
Order. I have rightly protected the right hon. Lady from inappropriate attempts to cut her off, but she must ask a question. I very much hope that she is approaching the end of her question. She really needs to do so.
Liz Saville Roberts
The Prime Minister signed a motion for the impeachment of Tony Blair, which was tabled by Adam Price, who is now leader of Plaid Cymru. The Prime Minister is surely not a man who likes to appear inconsistent. Does he still believe it to be right and proper to seek to impeach a Prime Minister who has been judged to mislead the public?
Mr Speaker
I have already explained once. Let me explain to the hon. Gentleman again, in terms that brook no misunderstanding, that now is not the time for points of order. That time will come, and if the hon. Gentleman is still interested, he will be heard, but he needs to learn the procedures for those matters.
The Prime Minister
I thank the right hon. Lady very much for her question. I am glad that she is such an assiduous reader of my column, but I must make clear two important points. First, the Supreme Court did not impugn the Government’s motives. Secondly, the right hon. Lady should bear in mind that Wales voted leave.
The Prime Minister
I must say to my right hon. Friend—my friend with whom I have worked happily over many years—that, actually, I do think that the surrender Act has done grave damage. What it would try to do—[Interruption.] I speak as somebody who has to sit in with—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. I appeal to colleagues in all parts of the House to calm down. Let us have the exchanges. Everybody must speak in terms that he or she thinks fit, but I know we are all conscious of the premium that is placed by “Erskine May” on moderation and good humour in the use of parliamentary language.
The Prime Minister
I repeat that the experience of negotiating with our European friends and partners over the last few weeks has, I am afraid, confirmed me in my view that the surrender Act—[Interruption]—has made it more difficult for us to get a deal. That is the sad truth. What they hear is a Parliament that is not just determined to stop a no-deal Brexit. That is not its intention. Its intention is to stop any kind of deal at all. That is what it wants to do.
I can tell my right hon. Friend the Member for Putney (Justine Greening) that we will come out of the European Union on 31 October, and we will not be extending.
The Prime Minister
I have to say that I have never heard such humbug in all my life. [Hon. Members: “Shame!”] The reality is that this is a Bill—[Interruption.] This is a Bill—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. [Interruption.] Order. [Interruption.] Order. I appeal to the House as a whole to debate these issues calmly. I can see the gesticulation from colleagues, and I am not—[Interruption.] Order. Mr Linden, please; allow me to respond. I am not unmindful of the purport of that gesticulation. I have reminded colleagues across the House of the very long-established precepts of “Erskine May” in relation to the conduct of debate. I must simply say that nothing disorderly—[Interruption.] No, nothing disorderly has been said. Everybody must make his own or her own judgment as to how to behave in this place, and all Members will operate at the level that they think appropriate. If I see that there is disorderly behaviour I will rule accordingly, and if I hear disorderly words I will rule them out of order. I wanted to hear—[Interruption.] Order. I wanted to hear the hon. Member for Dewsbury (Paula Sherriff), and did so in full, as she absolutely had to be heard. I have listened to the reply. Let’s try to respect—[Interruption.] Order. No assistance is required. Let’s try to respect each other.
The Prime Minister
Mr Speaker, let me just explain why I call it the surrender Act. That is because it would oblige us to stay in the EU for month after month, at a cost of a billion pounds per month. It would take away from this country the ability to decide how long that extension would be, and it would give that power to the EU. It would absolutely undermine our ability to continue to negotiate properly in Brussels; it takes away the fundamental ability of a country to walk away from the negotiations, and I am afraid that is exactly what it does. If I may say so respectfully to Opposition Members who are getting very agitated about this, the best way to get rid of the surrender Act is not to have voted for it in the first place, to repeal it, and to vote for the deal that we are going to do. That is the way forward.
The Prime Minister
My hon. Friend is entirely right, and the way forward for this House and for this country is to get Brexit done. I think there are people around this country, who are watching these proceedings, who will agree very profoundly with what I am saying: get Brexit done, and let’s take this country forward.
Mr Speaker
In these proceedings Members must say what they think—and they do, and that is right—on both sides of the House and on different sides of this argument, but I would emphasise that I am keenly conscious of the fact that there are Members on both sides of the House, and indeed on both sides of the Brexit argument, who have been personally threatened, and whose families have been threatened, and it is incredibly—[Interruption.] No, but Members on both sides of the House and on both sides of the argument have been threatened, and I have stated very publicly my revulsion at such behaviour, whether it has affected Members on one side or the other, people who are anti-Brexit or Members who are pro-Brexit, whose families have been wrongly threatened, or whose parents have been abused in their presence.
I would simply appeal to responsible colleagues in all parts of the House to weigh their words. That is all I am saying. I think that is a reasonable request of Members in all parts of the House. It is in our wider interest as a Parliament, and it is in the public interest, that we respect each other. That is a point which I think should not be difficult to understand.
Steve Double (St Austell and Newquay) (Con)
Following the events of yesterday, I have had many constituents contact me. Some are confused and bewildered; some are frustrated and angry. The vast majority of my constituents do not have the funding, the influence or the contacts to pursue matters in the Supreme Court, but what they do have is a vote. In June 2016, they gave their vote, and 64% in my constituency voted to leave, believing that their vote would count and the result would be honoured. Will the Prime Minister reassure my constituents that the events of yesterday will in no way detract from his determination to honour the referendum and ensure that we leave the EU?
The Prime Minister
The hon. Lady has made an allegation about my conduct as a student that I am afraid, if it were allowed to stand, would enter the record. She has no evidence for it whatever because it is completely untrue, Mr Speaker, and I would like you to ask her to withdraw it.
Mr Speaker
I am most grateful to the Prime Minister. The hon. Lady has said what she said, but the Prime Minister—[Interruption.] Order. The Prime Minister, from the Dispatch Box and with the full authority of his office, and knowing his own background and recognising the duty of every Member to speak the truth in this Chamber, has exercised his freedom, and quite rightly so. I think the Prime Minister would readily acknowledge that, in light of all that, he does not require any additional protection from me. He has put the record straight and it is there. It is on the record.
Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) (Ind)
What matters in this place is not just language, but tone. Earlier my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister spoke of political cowardice; I wish to speak to him of political bravery. Politics is the art of the possible. I genuinely believe it is possible for him to get a new deal; further, I believe it is possible for it to pass this House. But it would be politically brave not simply to reach across the House, but to put his arms around the House.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
I think the moment has arrived for the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East, whose noisy activities I was remarking upon in a number of cities around the world last week. We so often hear him yelling from a sedentary position; let us now hear him from a standing position.
Karl Turner (Kingston upon Hull East) (Lab)
Thank you very much indeed, Mr. Speaker. It really is an absolute disgrace that, even though the Prime Minister has been dragged here by the most senior judges in the highest court in the land because the advice that the Leader of the House gave Her Majesty the Queen was held to be unlawful, he comes here laughing and joking, and using aggressive language when Opposition Members make salient and serious points. Why does he think he can treat the Queen and the country with utter contempt?
David Tredinnick (Bosworth) (Con)
Mr Speaker—[Interruption.] My voice is restored. My right hon. Friend has talked about a surrender Act, which is quite accurate. Does he recall, as I do, because I was in the House at the time, the 1989 Act introducing the community charge, which was persistently described as a poll tax by the Opposition deliberately to stoke up anger and opposition in the country?
Mr Speaker
I appreciate the good humour of the hon. Gentleman. I am sorry that he was struggling with his throat, but it was suggested to me that he could usefully take a herbal remedy.
The Prime Minister
I thought that was coming, Mr Speaker. I thank my hon. Friend. He makes a very good point. All that I will say, at the risk of further inflaming my friends opposite, is that the legislation in question—the capitulation Act—has done material damage to this country’s ability to negotiate, and I think that they should reflect on that. In an international negotiation, it is very important that the UK is able to deploy every possible arsenal—every possible negotiating tool. I am afraid that an attempt has been made to weaken our hand—there is no question of it.
The Prime Minister
The best way to shut down democracy in this country and to erode trust in our political institutions is to fail to deliver on the will of the 17.4 million people who voted to leave, and that is what we are going to do.
Mr Bob Seely (Isle of Wight) (Con)
Thank you very much indeed, Mr Speaker. There have been some challenges for the Prime Minister—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. I have known the hon. Member for Isle of Wight (Mr Seely) for a long time. I am not surprised, but very pleased to see, that, notwithstanding some sedentary heckling, he still has a smile on his face and that is a good thing.
Mr Seely
I am blocked in that ear, so I cannot hear it anyway.
There have been some challenges for the Prime Minister in recent weeks, but is he aware that the more that my folks on the Isle of Wight see the obstacles being put in his way—whether they are political from people in this House, or from European leaders or from others, including judges—the more that they are willing him on and the more that they want him to stick the course to deliver Brexit on 31 October and restore trust in our politics.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
Order. May I ask the hon. Member for Walsall North (Eddie Hughes), before calling him, whether he can confirm—if he can, that is fine—that he has been here since 6.30 without interruption and without going out of the Chamber at any stage?
Eddie Hughes
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I was inspired to get to my feet by the excitement in the Chamber. I want to draw attention to the fact that on 27 April the Prime Minister, then a humble Back Bencher, visited my constituency. Four or five days later the Conservatives won two more council seats. However, the Leader of the Opposition visited my constituency about 10 days ago, and since then I have had five new party members. Does the Prime Minister believe that this net effect might explain the hesitance on the part of the Leader of the Opposition to try to call a general election?
The Prime Minister
With your leave, Mr Speaker, I will keep my answers pretty staccato from now on, because I have answered these points quite a lot. If people care about their constituents—it is quite proper, of course, that they should in every possible way—they should honour the will of their constituents and respect our democratic proceedings.
Mr Speaker
Of course I completely understand that the Prime Minister will offer his own answers, short or long, as he thinks fit. I just innocently make the observation, en passant, that repetition is not a novel phenomenon in the House of Commons and never has been.
The hour is still quite early. I have been in the Chair since 11.30 am, but I feel that I am just getting started. We have a lot more energy left. I am not remotely perturbed, and I am sure that the Prime Minister is not running out of energy. I should be very worried if he were, but I am sure that he is not.
Mr Speaker
Oh, don’t worry about me. I can more than hack it. We are a bit longer here than the Prime Minister and I were on the tennis court, but never mind.
Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)
I am not going to trade insults with the Prime Minister tonight, because this is far too serious. Let me just advise him to read a book by Senator Fulbright called “The Arrogance of Power”.
More important, millions of jobs in the west midlands could become extinct if the Prime Minister cannot get a deal. The Prime Minister may say that we had a chance to vote for the previous deal. The only reason we could not vote for it was that there was no guarantee that funding for research and development, for the universities, and for companies such as Jaguar Land Rover would continue. Let me say to the Prime Minister, very seriously and in all sincerity, that he should go back and make every effort to secure a deal that we can all support.
The Prime Minister
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for giving me occasion to remind him that this Government are massively increasing investment in the NHS—another £34 billion. The policy to which he and the Leader of the Opposition are committed would keep this country in the EU at the cost of another £1 billion a month, when we could spend £250 million a week building a new hospital. Is that really what they think is in the interest of this country or of their constituents? It is absolutely absurd.
Mr Speaker
Order. I thank the Prime Minister, and the Front-Bench spokespersons and 111 right hon. and hon. Members who have questioned him over the past three and a bit hours.
John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker.
Mr Speaker
If the points of order, consistent with the earlier approach, arise specifically from and relate to the matters with which we have just been dealing, I will take them. [Interruption.] Prime Minister, I think it would be a courtesy to stay for the point of order—a point of order that relates to the matter with which we have just been dealing. [Interruption.] Go and sit down. [Interruption.] Well, I asked the Prime Minister if he would be willing to stay, but he does not wish to do so. So be it. The point of order from Mr John McDonnell will be heard.
John McDonnell
Mr Speaker. I regret that the Prime Minister has left the Chamber. The penultimate question put to him, by my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh South (Ian Murray), was whether, in the fulfilment of all the conditions of legislation passed by this House, he would abide by that legislation. Now I might have heard wrong, but I believe the answer was a single word: no. We have passed legislation. If all the conditions of that legislation were fulfilled, would he then ensure that the action arising from an enacted piece of legislation would be taken? We are moving into new territory, where a Prime Minister who has already been found guilty of an unlawful act is now refusing to abide by the law as passed by this House. We are moving into an extremely dangerous position with regard to a Prime Minister’s accountability to this House and our democracy itself.
Mr Speaker, the Prime Minister has left the Chamber, even though you indicated quite clearly to him that the point of order related to his behaviour. I ask you to express the view that we expect the Prime Minister to be back in this House, so we can ask that question again.
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his point of order. I did not say to the Prime Minister that the point of order related to his conduct or behaviour; I did not know what the point of order was going to be. I said to the Prime Minister that the point of order related to the matters with which we had just been dealing; in other words, in keeping with the approach that I adopted in respect of points of order following earlier statements—points of order that came from hon. or right hon. Members on both sides of the House—I was happy to take them after the statements to which they related. I suggested that the Prime Minister might wish to stay. He indicated initially that he was minded to do so, but he then decided that he wished to leave the Chamber. He has been here since 6.30; he was here for three hours and 11 minutes, and he has chosen to leave.
What I would like to say to the shadow Chancellor and to other colleagues is that I have been in the Chair since 11.30 and will remain for the remainder of the proceedings. Therefore, I have inevitably heard everything that has been said on this and other matters, and I think the fairest thing I can say is that I have heard the Prime Minister say explicitly that we will always obey the law, we will abide by the law and we will adhere to the law. He has said that. Equally, I did hear the answer that he gave earlier. I think his words related to the submission of a request for an extension, and he indicated that he would not be minded to do so. I heard the full question and I heard the full answer, and I think the right and proper thing to say, at this point, is that colleagues—hon. and right hon. Members—should study the record and form their own assessment of it. I have, of course, myself said, as anybody would expect any citizen to say, any parliamentarian to say or any Speaker to say, that adherence to the law must, of course, be non-negotiable.
I do not think that I need to add to that tonight. Let us reflect on these matters, let us remain calm and let us assess the record. Just as I said, good-naturedly, I think, to the Prime Minister some minutes ago in a slightly different context that repetition was not a novel phenomenon in the House of Commons—never has been, is not and will not be—there will be further opportunities for Members to raise these matters, including this very particular point, in subsequent days. This Chair will always facilitate the fullest and most unsparing scrutiny of the Executive branch, because that is the responsibility of the Speaker—not to be a craven lickspittle of the Executive branch, but to facilitate the fullest and most unsparing scrutiny of it. That is my job, and come hell or high water I will continue to discharge it. Non-negotiable—end of subject.
Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I, too, am very sad that the Prime Minister has left, because I had hoped to raise this point of order to give him the opportunity to perhaps correct the record and reflect on his language and conduct in this House tonight. It gives me no pleasure to say that I am 62, I have been around and I have seen quite a lot of stuff in my life. It takes a lot to reduce this hon. Member to tears. I am not alone tonight; there are others who I believe have left the estate, such has been their distress.
I merely say to everybody in this place, but most notably to those who hold the highest of offices in this the most peculiar and extraordinary of political times, that the language that is used is incredibly important. Whatever side of the debate people are on, we have evidence that when they use words such as “surrender” or “capitulation”, or others use the words “traitor” and “treason”, there is a direct consequence. It means my mother receives a threat to her safety. It means my partner receives a death threat. It means that people go to prison or receive suspended sentences—unreported by a media that have lost the plot—because of the death threats made to hon. Members whose only crime and offence is to say what they believe in, to be true to their principles and to try to serve this country and their constituents. The consequences are that many will not want to return to this place, and a younger generation will not want to serve this country in the future.
Mr Speaker
I have heard what the right hon. Lady has said, and I treat it with the greatest possible respect. I am well aware of, and personally familiar with, the fact of the abuse and threats to which she has been subject over a long period. I deprecate in the strongest and most uncompromising terms those threats to her and to other Members. I have received many myself as a matter of fact—I am not complaining about that; I am simply saying that I empathise with her because I have been on the receiving end of many such communications myself. Each and every one of us has a responsibility to weigh his or her words and to try to make the arguments in which we believe with care and, if possible, with eloquence, and even, from time to time, with humour, but in terms that demonstrate respect for those who hold a point of view that differs from our own. I have a feeling that this is a point to which Members will return in days to come.
I cannot overstate the frequency with which I have been informed over the past year or so by Members on both sides of the House, and on both sides of the Brexit argument, of the fact and persistence of threats that they have received. I have previously said very publicly that, in relation to media outlets which have prominently depicted Members as though they were public enemies for differing from the vantage point of those media outlets, that cannot be right. That cannot be right. I have no desire to escalate the tensions and every desire to try to use words that are pacifying rather than inflammatory.
In relation to the Leader of the House, let me say that I am well aware that offensive abuse has been directed at members of his family, and that has been intimidating, and that is wrong. It is not possibly wrong or conceivably wrong or in a certain situation wrong. That is wrong—end of subject—and so is the abuse and threats that other Members have received. The reality of the matter—and I say this with all the force and insistence at my command without fear of contradiction—is that female Members and Members of our ethnic minority communities have been disproportionately subject to that abuse and those threats. It requires nobody to seek to contradict it, because that is the fact. I know it, and the right hon. Lady knows it. We have to rise up against it and to resist it, and everybody has a part to play, including the holders of very high offices.
Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I fear that the public watching today will perhaps take the view that this House does not take sufficiently seriously threats of violence. Earlier today, we had the Attorney General joke about wife beating. When asked whether they would bring forward the Domestic Abuse Bill now that Parliament has resumed, we had the Government dismiss those requests, and we have had the comments that were made by the hon. Member for Dewsbury (Paula Sherriff) recalling Jo Cox MP and the threats that MPs face on a daily basis—I may add that, today, I have reported to the police a threat against my child—and that was dismissed as humbug. This is a disgraceful state of affairs, and we must be able to find a way to conduct ourselves better.
Mr Speaker
I have known the hon. Lady since she entered the House in 2005, and we have worked together on a number of matters in the past. Rather than issue a lengthy reply now, I would like to reflect on what she said. I am also happy to meet Members—either individually or in groups if they wish—to consider further these matters. We certainly need to take very great care in the days and weeks ahead, and I am as sensitive to that matter as I think I can be. Let me reflect further on what the hon. Lady has said, and I will be happy to see her either for a Privy Counsellor-type conversation or in another form if she so wishes.
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you for what you have just said—and the sincerity with which you said it—about the threats made to Members of Parliament; the abuse, racism and violence happening in our communities; and the unfortunate messages that come from the language used, which is then repeated on the streets when people threaten public representatives and others with violence. May I ask you to use your excellent and very good offices to call together the leaders of all parties in this House to issue a joint declaration opposing any form of abusive language or threats? We should put the message out to our entire community that we have to treat each other with respect. If we do not, those on our streets who would do violence feel emboldened to do it and the most vulnerable people in our society suffer as a result. It happens in my constituency and in the constituencies of every other Member of this House. We are an elected Parliament, and we have a duty and responsibility to protect all our citizens from the kind of inflammatory language that has been used that is then meted out on the streets in a form of violence against individuals.
Mr Speaker
I will reflect carefully on the point of order just raised by the Leader of the Opposition. I am very open to convening a meeting of senior colleagues for the purpose of a House-wide public statement. I do not wish now to prolong these exchanges, but I take extremely seriously what has been said to me.
Vicky Ford (Chelmsford) (Con)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. It has clearly been a very intense day. As the chair of the all-party group on women in Parliament, I take very seriously the comments that have been made about respect and toning down everybody’s language. Can we please ensure that that happens on both sides of the House?
Mr Speaker
In all parts of the House, that seems to be an entirely uncontroversial observation with which I readily agree.
Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) (SNP)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. May I thank those right hon. and hon. Friends who have raised points of order? We are at a very dangerous juncture and are facing a constitutional crisis. One can imagine that the heat is only going to rise over the course of the next few weeks. I commend the Leader of the Opposition for his point of order, because the leaders of the parties here in Westminster have a responsibility; we need to ensure that we can navigate through the next few weeks. All of us collectively have a responsibility to make sure that all our colleagues—all parliamentarians and their friends, families and staff—can go about their business in safety. We need to send a clear message from this House that we will not tolerate bad behaviour: sexism, racism or threats to anyone. It really is important at a time like this that we show leadership and make it crystal clear that bad behaviour will not be tolerated from anyone.
Lucy Powell (Manchester Central) (Lab/Co-op)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I know that some of these points have been made already, but I just wanted to remind the House that Jo’s murder did not happen in a vacuum. It happened in a context—a context that is not dissimilar to the context we find ourselves in today. I have heard from Jo’s family this evening, and they have been very distressed by watching this place today. I know others have said it, but it has come from one side of the House: the language of “surrender”, of “betrayal” and of “capitulation”. This is the kind of language and the context that led to the murder of an MP leaving her surgery of an evening in a small market town by somebody from the far right, and we cannot forget that context when we conduct ourselves. I just wanted to put that on the record.
Mr Speaker
That point is duly noted. It is a very serious point. I do not want to add to it, but suffice it to say that although I do not know the Cox family anything like as well as the hon. Lady or many other Members here present, I do know members of the family. I have a strong empathy with the objectives of the Jo Cox Foundation, and indeed I am in touch with the family from time to time, including currently in relation to upcoming events, so I am not unsighted on the issues. I do not think any of us in this Chamber will ever forget or entirely overcome our horror, revulsion and distress at what happened to a wonderful human being and the most dedicated of public servants. She was murdered for what she believed, for the values she held, and for her effectiveness in campaigning for them. We do not in any circumstances ever want to witness a repeat of that.
Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Could I ask your advice on how this could be extended to the responsibilities of our media and the Independent Press Standards Organisation? They do have a really important role to play in how this gets reported and the language they use. We think back months ago to the headlines, “Traitors”, “Enemies of the people” and so on towards our judiciary and towards people in this place. Is there a mechanism by which we can engage with IPSO to ensure that that language is not repeated?
Mr Speaker
I would rather not deal with that now on the Floor of the House. I am well aware of IPSO and well aware of complaints that have been made to it from time to time, and colleagues will have their own view about that. There are hugely important issues here. On the one hand, there is an enormous premium, and rightly so, on a free media—a vigorous, outspoken, sometimes extremely irreverent and, from individuals’ or parties’ vantage points, hostile media. It is much better to have that than to have a media that is state controlled. On the other hand, words do have consequences, and it is very important that people in positions of authority or capacity to influence opinion, frankly, operate at a level that reflects their influence and their responsibility. I think this is something that it is better to discuss further outside the Chamber and that Members can raise with the relevant Minister if they so wish. But I am not insensitive to what the hon. Gentleman has said.
Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. In the Chamber we have ways in which we conduct ourselves. We have rules, some written, some unwritten, about decency and the way in which we speak to each other—and, indeed, conduct ourselves in conversation with you, Mr Speaker. Could you advise me as to whether there is any capacity for a formal review about the limits of language that we may use about colleagues, because if we are to change this, experience has shown us that raising it again and again in the Chamber is not enough? Given that we have other rules about how we conduct ourselves, could you advise the House as to whether there is any capacity to review the language used so that we can create other ways in which calling a colleague a traitor could be ruled out of order?
Mr Speaker
I must say to the hon. Lady, and I hope she will forgive me, that having heard the last remark she made, I did not hear any such statement made in the Chamber today. If such a statement was made, I did not hear it, I must say to her. I am not aware of such a statement having been made. Would I regard it as unparliamentary for one Member to call another Member a traitor? I absolutely would regard that as unparliamentary. Just off the top of my head, that would be my instinctive view. It would be totally unacceptable and I would ask the Member to withdraw.
More widely, perhaps I can say two things. First, the Procedure Committee can look at any issue that is referred to it. Secondly, I am not trying to abdicate responsibility, but I am conscious that 16 days ago I announced to the House my own intentions. What the hon. Lady has raised is very important. I think it will fall to a successor of mine to come to a view about some of these matters. With that successor Members should work, and I wish them every success and progress in doing so, but as I approach the end of my tenure, I am reluctant to say more than the circumstances warrant. That is unusual for me, I know, but there you go. I thank the hon. Lady for what she said.
We come now to the business statement by the Leader of the House and Lord President of the Council, Mr Jacob Rees-Mogg.
Brexit Readiness: Operation Yellowhammer
John Bercow Excerpts(4 years, 7 months ago)
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Michael Gove
I am very grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his questions, and may I also say that I am grateful to the Supreme Court for the clarity of its judgment. I am also grateful to the hon. Gentleman’s colleagues in the Scottish Government for the extensive work they have done along with colleagues from the other devolved Administrations to help us prepare for a no-deal exit. Only yesterday, I was chairing a committee meeting at which the Scottish Cabinet Secretary responsible for agriculture and rural affairs was, along with other Ministers from the devolved Administrations, actively taking steps to ensure that his constituents were actively ready to prepare for a no-deal Brexit. It is only right that we should record our thanks to the civil servants of the devolved Administrations for that work, too.
I do not shirk the fact that there are serious challenges. We are all aware of them, and we would all much prefer to leave with a deal. The hon. Gentleman asked what preparations are being made to secure a deal. I listed some of the advances that have been made in negotiations earlier, but one thing that I would say is that we have had a chance in this House of Commons to vote for deals before, and it was the choice of his party resolutely not to vote for a deal. We could have—[Interruption.]
Michael Gove
We could have had a withdrawal agreement if only Scottish National party Members had been as good as their word and put the interests of Scotland ahead of narrow sectarian, secessionist and separatist arguments.
The hon. Member also asked about the Yellowhammer document. As I mentioned earlier, the NAO confirmed earlier this year that it was a reasonable worst-case scenario, and it is one that, as I mentioned in response to both the right hon. and learned Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Keir Starmer) and my right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Mr Duncan Smith), we have taken steps to mitigate. Those steps, many of which have been taken in co-ordination with devolved Administrations, extend to everything from the provision of infrastructure to ensure catch certificates for the Scottish fishing industry to the licensing of new people to ensure export health certificates for other areas of agriculture.
Finally, the hon. Member made a point about lawfulness. It is vital that we all uphold the law in this House of Commons, but it is also important that we recognise that we passed a Bill in order to create a referendum in which we said that the people’s verdict would be respected. Our democracy depends not just on respect for the rule of law but on respect for the people’s verdict.
Sir David Lidington
While completely supporting the need to engage in rigorous contingency planning, as my right hon. Friend is doing, can I ask him also to confirm that in Northern Ireland, in the absence of an Executive, the civil service there lacks the necessary powers to take the mitigating measures that he is rightly putting in place for England, and will he say what plans the Government have to introduce the necessary steps, including legislation, to ensure that guidance and direction are available in Northern Ireland?
Michael Gove
That is a very good point. I believe it is the case that work is going on with individual EU member states to provide reassurance and guarantees on that, but I will write to the hon. Gentleman about the situation that pertains to the provision of services in each of those member states and the impact it will have on UK businesses and citizens.
Mr Speaker
It is good to hear it. Not merely an hon. Gentleman, but an hon. Friend—I am sure the hon. Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) will rejoice in the fact of that approbation.
Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield) (Lab)
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster may recall that the Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders, representing the UK auto industry, described the prospect of a no-deal Brexit as an “existential threat” to their sector. Nobody could complain that they have not made preparations for a no-deal Brexit—they have spent millions of pounds in so doing—but I have not heard them say anything that indicates that they have changed their mind about the severity of the threat they face in the event of a no-deal Brexit. Has he?
Michael Gove
I certainly recall many of them featuring in the speeches of those who were campaigning for remain.
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the Minister, to the Front-Bench spokespersons including the shadow Secretary of State, and to the 87 Back Benchers who posed questions.
Mr Speaker
Points of order come after statements—[Interruption.] The hon. Gentleman says that it appertains directly to this statement, and he has an honest face. Of course I take him at his word. Let us hear the fella.
Ian C. Lucas
Thank you, Mr Speaker. This relates directly to the question that I specifically put to the Minister when I asked him whether he had overall responsibility for the work of the Cabinet Office. He did not answer that question in the affirmative. He has answered a number of questions today relating to, for example, the Government Digital Service and data protection, but I am unclear, given that he is the Minister for the Cabinet Office, why he is so determined to avoid responsibility in his Department for data protection and for elections. I wonder whether you could assist me in establishing how I can get a straight answer on this question.
Mr Speaker
The hon. Gentleman can table questions, if he wishes. I heard the Minister for the Cabinet Office, who I think advised the House that the Minister with responsibility for the particular matters to which he referred was the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General, the right hon. Member for Hertsmere (Oliver Dowden). It has always been my understanding that the right hon. Member for Hertsmere was one of the Minister for the Cabinet Office’s junior Ministers and that, therefore, overall the right hon. Member for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove) has top-level responsibility, but if I am wrong I am sure that we will all be disabused of our error.
Michael Gove
Thank you very much, Mr Speaker, for giving me the opportunity once again to underline the division of responsibilities in the Cabinet Office. It is my responsibility to prepare the Government for Brexit, both deal and no deal, but the Minister for the Cabinet Office, my right hon. Friend the Member for Hertsmere, sits around the Cabinet table and has direct responsibility for the issues to which the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian C. Lucas) referred.
Mr Speaker
I think the position is pretty clear, to be honest. Overall responsibility lies with the most senior Minister. I do not think that the Minister for the Cabinet Office would disavow that proposition for a moment. The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster was offering greater specificity, but the overall position is, I think, blindingly obvious.
Martin Whitfield
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. My point also relates to the specific answer to the question I raised. I asked for an example of the mitigation and received the answer, “Yes I can.” Are we going to end up in the duplicitous situation where we phrase questions to have closed answers from Ministers, or is this supposed to be the opportunity for the Government to explain their position?
Mr Speaker
I do not think I can arbitrate between the hon. Gentleman in his question and the Minister in his reply. The hon. Gentleman has put his concern on the record. He is a most perspicacious fellow and I feel sure that he will have recourse to the Table Office if he wishes to table further questions. Knowing the appetite of the right hon. Member for Surrey Heath (Michael Gove) for responding to inquiries, I am sure he will be getting up even earlier in the morning and going to bed even later at night specifically to attend to the inquiries of the hon. Member for East Lothian (Martin Whitfield). The nodding of the head of the Minister on the Treasury Bench is testament to his acceptance of the point I have just made.
Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. During the earlier exchanges, the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster said on a number of occasions that the retail sector was “ready for Brexit”—I think those were the three words he used. The British Retail Consortium has subsequently said that that is not the case and is incorrect. How can we get the record corrected?
Mr Speaker
The hon. Gentleman has found his own salvation, and he knows that. I say that as much for those attending to our proceedings as for Members. The hon. Gentleman has found his own salvation, and he has done so through the entirely bogus use of a point of order to get his concern across. He is not the first person to do that and he will not be the last. Whether he is satisfied or not, I do not know, but he will have to make the best of what he has done, given the prodigious character of his efforts today.
People are quite understandably in an inquisitive mood. That is entirely to be expected, particularly when we have not been sitting for some time, but we must now move to the next statement by the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs.
Prorogation (Disclosure of Communications)
John Bercow Excerpts(4 years, 8 months ago)
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Mr Speaker
We now come to the motion in the name of Mr Dominic Grieve and others, to be moved under Standing Order No. 24. I remind the House that a paper with the terms of the motion has been distributed.
Mr Grieve
I will give way to my right hon. and learned Friend in a moment.
In addition, it is a question about what this House requests. I am perfectly aware that sometimes I may say that the Government may be acting abusively, so I am the first to understand that there is a capacity for this House to act abusively. However, what is being asked for, and ought to be respected by any self-respecting Government employee, is that if they are asked to look and see whether they have carried out a communication, within the relevant request, that goes to their official work, they ought to be willing to provide it. It should not be a question of coercion; it should be a question of willingness. If we move from that, that will be the destruction of another convention under which this country has been run, and it will be greatly to our detriment.
Mr Speaker
Order. The point of order trumps the attempted intervention even of an illustrious Law Officer.
Kevin Brennan
Thank you, Mr Speaker. Is it a point of order or a point of information to point out that the Prime Minister’s special adviser, Dominic Cummings, asked to examine the private text messages on the telephone of a Government employee?
Mr Speaker
The hon. Gentleman has made his own point in his own way, and he may wish to expatiate further on that matter if he catches my eye in the course of the debate. Meanwhile, it is on the record and will be widely observed.
Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The hon. Member for Redditch (Rachel Maclean) has said two things: first, that people are thwarting democracy; and, secondly, that hon. and right hon. Members are not being honest in the arguments they advance. Presumably she is referring to the right hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr Grieve), who is sitting some three Benches behind her.
Mr Speaker
I hope the right hon. Lady will forgive me, but I was immersed—there is no point in my pretending otherwise—in a Socratic dialogue with an hon. Gentleman, as the Chair sometimes is. Therefore I did not hear what the hon. Member for Redditch (Rachel Maclean) said. I find it hard to credit the notion that she would impute dishonour to a colleague, particularly to a colleague on her own Benches, and certainly she should not do so. At this stage I have to declare her innocent, because there is no evidence of guilt, but nevertheless it is useful to be reminded of the dictate of “Erskine May” that moderation and good humour in the use of parliamentary language are reliable watchwords in conducting our debates.
Rachel Maclean
Thank you for your guidance, Mr Speaker. I endeavour to follow it and, should my words have been misinterpreted, I of course withdraw them immediately.
I made the point that there are divisions on this issue in the House, and the Members who are trying to bring forward these processes are the Members who are trying to stop Brexit. Some of them are actually quite honest and open about that, which is fine. That is their policy. Labour is now a party of remain, which is fine. It would be clearer if Labour put it to the test in a general election and let us see the public’s verdict, but unfortunately they are too frightened to do that.
Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am sure the hon. Lady did not want to mislead the House, but she said that it was “hypothetical” that the special adviser Mr Dominic Cummings had been found in contempt of Parliament. That is not hypothetical—it is a fact.
Mr Speaker
Yes, there is not an unpurged contempt, and my recollection of the particular case, whose details I am broadly familiar with, is that he was not invited to apologise, but there was a contempt, and that is a matter of unarguable and incontrovertible fact. These matters came my way recently, in circumstances with which I need not trouble the House, but I do know of what I speak and there was a contempt.
Rachel Maclean
Thank you for that clarification, Mr Speaker. The question I was asked in the earlier intervention was how many I have worked with. I have not worked with Dominic Cummings, so I was answering a question in a quite straightforward way. I have made my point and I will bring my remarks to a close. I will not be supporting the Humble Address, for the reasons I have laid out, and the House would do well not to support it.
Joanna Cherry
I agree with my hon. Friend, but I would take the argument further, because the shabby practices of this Government and the creaking of the British constitution underline, in my mind, the need for my country to be independent of this mess.
Even as we have been speaking this afternoon, it has been reported on Twitter—this point has already been alluded to—that unidentified No. 10 sources are saying that even if we pass this motion for an Humble Address tonight, they will not comply with it. [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. I am extremely grateful to the hon. and learned Lady, but I gently point out to her that, as there is a significant number of other Members waiting to contribute, and as the right hon. Gentleman the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster has every right and reasonable expectation to think that he will have 10 minutes or so to speak, I am cautiously optimistic that she is approaching her peroration.
Joanna Cherry
You are correct, Mr Speaker; I am about to draw my remarks to a close.
I am a student more of Scottish history than of English history, but our histories are bound together, and I know enough about English history to know that it was secret, unaccountable whispers of poison that brought down Edward II and Richard II. I suspect that this Prime Minister will be brought down by secret, unaccountable whispers of poison, such as those in the unattributable briefings we heard this afternoon. Let us make sure that this House and the courts see the contents of the secret whispers of poison that preceded this Prorogation, so that we can all see the real reasons why the House of Commons has been prorogued by an Executive terrified of scrutiny.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
Now, a self-denying ordinance would help. I think that the right hon. Member for North Shropshire (Mr Paterson) can probably deliver himself of his thoughts on this matter within five minutes.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
We are deeply obliged to the right hon. Gentleman. We now need very short speeches, of no more than four minutes.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
Let me see—[Interruption.] Oh, I do beg the pardon of the hon. Member for North Dorset (Simon Hoare); I think he used to make those sorts of coughing noises when he was at Oxford with my wife 30 years ago. Yes, very good—he has three or four minutes now.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
We need to have even shorter speeches, because the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster must have his opportunity to respond. I am sure that a great intellectual colossus such as the hon. Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) can express her thoughts in two minutes.
Several hon. Members rose—
Michael Gove
No, no, no. [Hon. Members: “Give way.”] Mr Speaker, I reserve the right to take any intervention I wish, and I will in a second. [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. There is so much noise that it would be understandable if the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster were unable to hear the right hon. and learned Member for Beaconsfield (Mr Grieve), who was bidding to intervene. Whether he accepts the intervention is a matter for him, but it is important that attempted interventions are audible.
Michael Gove
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I shall not take any interventions because it is important that I make progress.
I want to underline that these propositions are being put forward by people who say—and I believe them—that they take the rule of law seriously, but in their desire to rifle through the private correspondence of individuals, they set aside legal precedent, set aside the good workings of government, and set aside the rights of individuals.
Let me turn briefly to the particular part—
Ian C. Lucas
It is a point of order. I wrote to the Secretary of State on 5 August asking him a specific question—when he knew about the illegal payments of Vote Leave. He has not answered my letter, and he refuses to take an intervention. I have raised it in this debate again. How will I get a straight answer, on trust, from the Secretary of State?
Mr Speaker
Persist, man! Persist by asking further questions or sending follow-up letters—keep buggering on at all times.
Michael Gove
In his speech, the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian C. Lucas) answered his own question. He explained that I had said to Dermot Murnaghan on Sky News exactly when I knew about these payments. He can ask as many times as he likes for me to repeat the answer, but I gave the answer months ago.
Talking of politicians who cannot see what is in front of them, we come to Yellowhammer. The point has been made that it is critical that we share with this House as much as we can, and I am absolutely committed to that. In the evidence that I gave to the Exiting the European Union Committee last Thursday—
Parliamentary Buildings (Restoration and Renewal) Bill
John Bercow ExcerptsMonday 9th September 2019
(4 years, 8 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Parliamentary Buildings (Restoration and Renewal) Act 2019 View all Parliamentary Buildings (Restoration and Renewal) Act 2019 Debates Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts Amendment Paper: HL Bill 196-I Marshalled list for Report (PDF) - (30 Aug 2019)
Valerie Vaz (Walsall South) (Lab)
Mr Speaker, may I start by paying tribute to you and your excellent role as Speaker? I was one of the people who dragged you to the Chair, and you have been outstanding. I will come on to your role with the Education Centre. You have been a stalwart in terms of equality. In your efforts to help me in my role as shadow Leader of the House, you have been exemplary. I will miss business questions, and particularly your jibes at us all. Thank you for everything you have done to uphold the parliamentary system; it has been very good. [Interruption.] That was for you, Mr Speaker.
I thank the Minister for bringing the Bill back to this House, and I thank all Members who have taken part in the debates on restoration and renewal. I am pleased that the Bill has come back, and I want to pay tribute to the right hon. Member for Aylesbury (Mr Lidington), who started the push to move the restoration and renewal Bill forward. I want to deal with the amendments—it is important to get them on record—in three chunks, one relating to the Sponsor Body, one to the physical aspects and one to the future.
We have the Sponsor Body, which will be a single client on behalf of both Houses, and that is a good way of working. It will form the Delivery Authority as a company limited by guarantee. Amendments 10 and 12 require the Sponsor Body to lay its reports before Parliament. One of the key things that Members wanted was the accountability of the Sponsor Body to Parliament, and the amendments will ensure that. Amendment 11 will ensure that we know about all the contracts that are awarded to different companies and the people who operate around the estate.
Amendment 1 is fairly important because it is about having regard to the prospective contractor’s policy relating to corporate social responsibility and the prospective contractor’s policies and procedures relating to employment, which is about the blacklisting of people. Many lives have been destroyed by people being blacklisted and not being allowed to take part in contracts. That is extremely important, and I want to thank my hon. Friend the Member for City of Chester (Christian Matheson) for ensuring that this has been passed.
Amendment 9 will require the Sponsor Body, in exercising its functions, to have regard to the need to ensure that there are opportunities to secure economic or other benefits throughout the United Kingdom. That is key, certainly on our side, and it is one of the reasons why we support this Bill wholeheartedly. We wanted to make sure that any benefits were not just confined to one part of the United Kingdom, but go to the whole United Kingdom.
As the Minister said about the physical parts, it is important to ensure that the historical, archaeological and other significance of Parliament continues. That is covered by amendment 8, remembering that it was 900 years ago when the Anglo-Saxons were first involved in this place—and some of them might still be here.
Amendment 5 seeks to ensure that, after the completion of the parliamentary building works, all parts of the estate are accessible to people with disabilities. I know that the hon. Members for Airdrie and Shotts (Neil Gray) and for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton) were involved in this, and they certainly raised it on Third Reading. If we look at what happens at York Minster, we know we can combine accessibility for people with disabilities with keeping up the building’s historical significance.
As to the future, amendments 4 and 6 strengthen the reference to parliamentary building works in relation to ensuring the safety and security of staff and the public, as well as in relation to the education facilities. Amendment 7 secures your legacy of the Education Centre, Mr Speaker. It makes sure that Parliament’s education and outreach facilities and programme are ensured and that they become a core part of the parliamentary estate and provide a benefit in a greater understanding of Parliament and our democracy. My hon. Friend the Member for Glasgow North East (Mr Sweeney) mentioned the craft school in Scotland. I know that Historic England is aware of it and wants to carry on with this, which could be an outstanding way to ensure that all our crafts—ancient and modern—are secured for our future.
Amendment 2 will place a duty on the Sponsor Body to promote public understanding of the purposes of the restoration and renewal programme, and amendment 3 will ensure that the views of Members, staff and the public are at the front of the Sponsor Body’s mind. Everyone across the nation should feel a part of this project, because this place is in the heart of the nation. We do not have a deadline, as the Olympic Delivery Authority did, so the important part is that we make sure there is a deadline, as Members’ tolerance and the public purse are not elastic. However, I again join the Minister in saying that it is important that this is all secured for future generations, and we support the Bill.
Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)
I will also be very brief. I, too, want to take the opportunity to pay tribute to you, Mr Speaker, following the announcement you have made. You were a huge source of support and encouragement to all of us elected as SNP MPs in 2015, and particularly to me since becoming the Chief Whip. I remember being admonished back in 2015 for clapping in the Chamber, but that reform seems to be progressing forthwith. Of course, you have been a reforming Speaker, and as the Labour shadow Leader of the House said, much of R and R will be a way to secure the legacy of some of the reforms in making this place much more family friendly and much more accessible. Perhaps, in the tradition of the rooms in Portcullis House, there will, in the restored and renewed Parliament, be a Bercow room, in which people can reflect on that legacy.
The SNP has always recognised the need for reform and renewal of Parliament. We have our own views about how much money should be spent and where Parliament should be located, but we accept the progress that the Bill has made. My hon. Friend the Member for Airdrie and Shotts (Neil Gray) has been a member of the shadow Sponsor Board and has engaged significantly on this Bill, including helping to secure what has become Lords amendment 9, which we welcome, so that the money that is spent will benefit the whole United Kingdom and its constituent parts. He cannot be here today, because this morning his wife, Karlie, gave birth to twins—Emmie and Freya—and we congratulate him. I hope that under the proxy voting rules that means that I am entitled to cast two votes on his behalf when we return after Prorogation. We hope that those young girls will grow up in an independent Scotland, and we look forward to their being able to visit the House of Commons once it has been renewed.
The biggest question on everyone’s lips is whether the revised and renewed Chamber will include reclining chairs for the likes of the Leader of the House and, indeed, my hon. Friend the Member for Central Ayrshire (Dr Whitford), who need to make themselves comfortable. We therefore look forward to the Bill’s progress to Royal Assent and the speaking of Norman French later this evening.
Lords amendment 1 agreed to.
Lords amendments 2 to 12 agreed to.
Early Parliamentary General Election (No. 2)
John Bercow Excerpts(4 years, 8 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Prime Minister
If that is what the hon. Lady thinks, why does she not have a word with her right hon. Friend the Leader of the Opposition and tell him to reverse his absurd policy of spending an extra £1 billion a month to keep us in the EU, when we are spending £1 billion on 20,000 more police officers on the streets of this country?
The Liberal Democrats also called for a referendum on our membership of the EU, and once they got it—by the way, they lost that referendum, of course—they did nothing but try to overturn the result, arrogating to themselves the authority to decide which democratic elections they respect and which they reject. Now—where are they, the Liberal Democrats? There they are—they want a second referendum, but they are already planning to campaign against the result. When asked whether she would implement Brexit if the people voted for it a second time, the party’s new leader, the hon. Member for East Dunbartonshire (Jo Swinson), replied no. Every time the Liberal Democrats lose a referendum, they just call for a new one over and over again. It turns out she is the new leader of the referendum party, the Jimmy Goldsmith of our times.
But the Liberal Democrats are models of coherence by comparison with the Leader of the Opposition. His strategy, mysterious as it is, is that by some process he becomes Prime Minister—but without an election, because he is against elections. He then goes to Brussels and negotiates a new deal, presumably keeping us in the customs union and the single market. He then comes back and passes that deal through the House and takes it to the country in a second referendum, whereupon he campaigns against his own deal. [Interruption.] That’s the plan, isn’t it? Perhaps he can clarify. He would urge the nation to reject his own handiwork.
We know the real reason Labour does not want a general election under his leadership. Most of them do not want one because they fear that their party will lose, but there is a small terrified minority of Labour MPs who do not want an election because they actually think the Leader of the Opposition might win, ladies and gentlemen.
As for the Scottish National party, last week the First Minister for Scotland correctly said:
“It’s starting to feel like Labour doesn’t want an election at all”.
She then issued a clarion call to her assembled armies in Westminster to “force an election”. What are they doing? How do those brave stalwarts of Scottish separatism propose to force that election? By heroically abstaining!
The common thread joining all these parties is their extraordinary belief that the national interest requires them pre-emptively to protect the British people from the consequences of their own democratic decisions. The truth is they believe in democracy only when it delivers the results they want. Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition have a constitutional duty—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. There is far too much noise in the Chamber. The decibel level needs to reduce. The Prime Minister should not have to shout to make himself heard, and the same will apply when the Leader of the Opposition gets to his feet.
The Prime Minister
I am grateful, Mr Speaker. [Interruption.] They say they can’t hear. [Laughter.] How’s that? [Hon. Members: “Yeah!”] Her Majesty’s Loyal Opposition have a constitutional duty to oppose the Government and to seek to replace them. For this task, they are handsomely paid to the tune of almost £10 million of taxpayers’ money. They are! That is what they are paid to do by the taxpayer.
Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Unfortunately, the microphone being placed so close to the Prime Minister means that he cannot hear that some of us over here are trying to intervene and have something that he and his Back Benchers do not want—a debate. We all want to know whether he will abide by the law that this Parliament has passed.
Mr Speaker
I say as much for the benefit of the watching public as for anybody else that that is an example of what I call the norm: superficially a point of order but entirely bogus. The right hon. Lady has made her point in her own way with suitable alacrity and it is on the record.
The Prime Minister
Thank you, Mr Speaker, for your characteristically impartial judgment.
The Leader of the Opposition: there he sits. His party is paid £10 million by the taxpayer and he himself is entitled to more than £140,000 of taxpayers’ money, yet today we see the extraordinary spectacle of the entire Opposition collectively deciding to abrogate their most fundamental responsibility. They have their job. They know what they should be doing. In this era of creative litigation, are there not grounds for legal challenge to compel them to do it? [Interruption.] Hon. Members can have their say in a minute. I am concluding my remarks.
Sometimes the Leader of the Opposition says that we should leave the EU; sometimes he says that we should have another referendum; sometimes he says that we should negotiate a new deal; sometimes he says that he would accept whatever Brussels offers. Over the past few days, the Labour party has said that it wants to delay Brexit, then negotiate a new deal, then have another referendum, then campaign against its own deal in that referendum. Perhaps its next policy will be to have a referendum on whether to have a referendum.
The Leader of the Opposition cannot lead. He cannot make a decision. He cannot work out whether he is for Brexit or against it—for a referendum or against it. The only options that he likes are dither and delay. I say to Opposition Members—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. I am immensely grateful to the Prime Minister for his ready compliance with the procedures of the House. I will take a point of order from Mr David Linden, which I have—[Interruption.] Order. Mr Swire, I do not require any assistance from you. You would not have the foggiest idea where to start. What I am seeking to establish is whether this is a point of order. When I have heard it, I will know, but until I have, I cannot.
David Linden
People observing tonight’s proceedings, Mr Speaker, will see that the annunciator shows that this is the second occasion on which the House has been asked to approve the motion. Given that the Prime Minister is displaying something of a contradiction by saying that he wants to ask the House this question again but will not allow the people of Scotland an independence referendum, can you outline, Mr Speaker, whether this is hypocrisy on the Prime Minister’s part?
Mr Speaker
That was an ingenious effort, but let me say to the hon. Gentleman that the motion would not be on the Order Paper unless it was orderly. I am happy to conduct a seminar for his benefit outside the Chamber at a later date, but it is, at this time, given the context, orderly. The hon. Gentleman has made his own point, but it is a different one, and it does not meet the needs of the case.
The Prime Minister
I say again to everyone on the Opposition Benches: if you really want to delay Brexit beyond 31 October, which is what you seem to want to do, then vote for an election and let the people decide whether they want to delay or not. If you refuse to do that tonight, I will go to Brussels—our Government will go to Brussels—on 17 October and negotiate our departure on 31 October, hopefully with a deal, but without one if necessary. I will not ask for another delay.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
Order. I apologise for having to interrupt the Prime Minister. I will take these points of order, but I hope that they are genuine. The Prime Minister will then proceed with his speech.
Patricia Gibson (North Ayrshire and Arran) (SNP)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am keen to have your guidance. Given that we are supposed to be debating whether to have an early general election, I wonder if the Prime Minister, in that context, is willing to share with the House whether he is willing to obey the law of the land.
Mr Speaker
That is a political observation, and not a matter for procedural adjudication by the Chair.
Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (LD)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker, on behalf of the Liaison Committee. The Prime Minister gave an undertaking that he would appear before the Committee this Wednesday at 3.30 pm. The Committee met today, and we have written to the Prime Minister asking whether he will still appear, because—
Mr Speaker
Order. I recognise the hon. Lady’s sincerity and the strength of her conviction. If she wishes to contribute to the debate in an orderly way, on her feet, in a speech, because she has caught my eye, she can do so, but she should not use the device of a bogus point of order.
Geraint Davies (Swansea West) (Lab/Co-op)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister has just informed the House that on 31 October he will go to Brussels and ensure that we leave with or without a deal, in contravention of a motion we have just passed that we will obey the law in compliance with that law that has just been passed. Is that out of order?
Mr Speaker
I would be immensely grateful if the hon. Gentleman did not feel it necessary to keep pointing at me. I know he feels strongly, but that is not a point of order. [Interruption.] Order. And I would say in terms of the seemliness of these proceedings, come on, let’s have fair play: the Prime Minister is entitled to make a speech and be heard, as will be the Leader of the Opposition.
The Prime Minister
Thank you, Mr Speaker, and thank you for allowing me to repeat my salient point: I will not ask for another delay. The people of this country have had enough of the delectable—[Interruption.] The people of this country have had enough of the delectable disputations—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. This is profoundly disorderly. Members must not be shouted down in the Chamber. There are standards to be upheld, and they must be upheld.
The Prime Minister
It is plain from the turbulent reaction of those on the Benches opposite that they simply want another delay, and I will not have that. The public have had enough of the delectable disputations of this House, and I must warn Members that their behaviour in thwarting the will of the people is undermining respect for this House in the country.
If hon. Members want another delay, the only proper way to do it is to ask permission from our masters, the people—from our masters, the voters—and I commend this motion to the House.
Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)
The only point of any importance that the Prime Minister has just included in his speech is his clear indication that he does not intend to follow the law that has just been passed that requires him to ask for an extension in certain circumstances. He also gave no answer on the two decisions this House has already made today concerning the publication of Yellowhammer documents and his own behaviour as Prime Minister in respect of laws agreed by this House. He seems to have failed to grasp that those on the Opposition Benches have actually been very clear and that the House has expressed its will: until the Act has been complied with and no deal has been taken off the table, we will not vote to support the Dissolution of this House and a general election.
I want an election, as the Prime Minister pointed out, and the Conservative party has very generously broadcast footage of me and my friends saying that we want an election. I do not retreat from that at all; we are eager for an election, but as keen as we are, we are not prepared to risk inflicting the disaster of no deal on our communities, our jobs, our services, or indeed our rights. [Interruption.]
No deal would not be a clean break. It would not mean just getting on with it. It would start a whole new period of confusion and delay, but this time set against a backdrop of rising unemployment, further deindustrialisation and deepening poverty all across this country. [Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. I said a moment ago that the Prime Minister should not be shouted down. Let me say to those who are shouting their heads off that it will be readily obvious to people observing our proceedings that that is exactly what they are trying to do, including some extraordinarily stupid and noisy yelling from people secreting themselves behind the Chair and thinking they are being clever. It is very low grade, it is very downmarket, it is very substandard, it is very boring, it is very predictable, and if the Whips operated any sort of discipline, they would tell those people to try to get a life.
Jeremy Corbyn
The point I was making was that this will be against a backdrop of unemployment, increasing deindustrialisation and deepening poverty within our society, so it is not surprising that the Government were so keen to hide the Yellowhammer documents—their own documents—which would demonstrate that to be the case. We have no faith that the Government are seeking a deal in good faith. Indeed, the former Work and Pensions Secretary said in her resignation letter:
“I no longer believe leaving with a deal is the government’s main objective.”
EU leaders have received no proposals. Government Ministers have offered no explanation of the deal they are seeking—even if there is such a deal—let alone any worked-out proposals to be presented to Parliament for scrutiny. It is no wonder they are so keen to prorogue so early, to avoid any scrutiny of what they are doing.
The only conclusion that can be reached—and it is backed up by all the leaked reports in the press—is that the Government’s pretensions to negotiate are nothing but a sham. The Prime Minister knows full well that there is no mandate for no deal, no majority support for it in the country and no majority support for it in this House, but he refuses to rule it out and refuses to set out any proposals to avoid it. This is a very serious issue: the Prime Minister is running away from scrutiny with his blather and his shouting. Many people, including the right hon. Member for Hastings and Rye (Amber Rudd), are increasingly coming to the conclusion that no deal is his only answer, but he has no mandate for that. The last general election gave no mandate for no deal, and the 2016 referendum gives no mandate for it. The co-convenor of the Vote Leave campaign said in March this year that
“we didn’t vote to leave without a deal.”
He is now the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster. No deal is opposed by every business group, every industry group and every trade union, and it has been opposed in votes in this House.
I want to turf out this reckless Government—[Interruption.] This Government that are driving up poverty, deepening inequality, scapegoating migrants, whipping up divisions and failing this country. A general election is not something for the Prime Minister to play about with for propaganda points, or even his very poor quality posts on social media, so perhaps he can, possibly for the last time in this Session of Parliament, answer some questions. First—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. [Interruption.] Order. Order. Mr Philp, you are very loud and rancorous. Calm down, young man! You are getting very over-excited—very, very over-excited—and you can do a lot better than that. You must try to do so.
Jeremy Corbyn
First, where are the Prime Minister’s proposals for the renegotiations? Where are they? When were they published? What is their content?
Secondly, if the Prime Minister seeks no deal, why does he not argue for it and seek the mandate for it that the Government do not so far possess? There is no mandate for no deal. [Interruption.] No, I am not giving way. Thirdly, if, as he claims, the Prime Minister is making progress—
The Prime Minister
If the right hon. Gentleman really wishes to avoid a no-deal Brexit, will he explain why he is unwilling to call an election, go to Brussels and seek—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. Mr Docherty-Hughes, calm yourself. Is the Prime Minister satisfied that he has made his intervention, or does he wish to complete it?
The Prime Minister
If the right hon. Gentleman wishes to avoid a no-deal Brexit, why does he not call an election, get a mandate, go to Brussels and negotiate a deal himself? What is his objection to that?
Ian Blackford
I am deeply concerned about what is happening, about the proroguing of Parliament and about the fact that the Government have pushed it through on the votes of three members of the Privy Council, against the express wishes of the majority of Members of this House. That concerns me and, as democrats, it should concern us all.
I said this last week and I will say it again: the SNP wants a general election. We want the opportunity to bring this Government down, and we are going to take it. We want the opportunity for the people of Scotland to have their voices heard, to make their choice over their futures. We want the opportunity to stop this Prime Minister from ripping us out of the European Union against our will. [Interruption.] May I say to the—
Mr Speaker
Order . The right hon. Gentleman should not have to do so. You are a most statuesque figure, Mr Kawczynski, and therefore you are very readily visible and sometimes audible. I gently say to you, because you are generally a very good-natured fellow, that it is quite inappropriate when standing at the Bar of the House also to be bellowing. Stand and look impressive, rather than yell, man. That would be my advice.
Ian Blackford
Thank you, Mr Speaker. We want the opportunity to stop this Prime Minister from ripping us out of the European Union against our will. Members can jeer all they want, but this Prime Minister has lost Scotland. He has lost the support of the old Scottish Tory leader. Writing in tonight’s Evening Standard, Ruth Davidson has landed a blow on the Prime Minister. Things are really that bad for the Prime Minister and for this shambolic, failing Tory Government. The matter is simple: we want an election but we do not want it on the Prime Minister’s terms. This is a Prime Minister obsessed with running down the clock, a Prime Minister who cannot be trusted and a Prime Minister who is seeking to shut Parliament tonight so that he can drive us off the cliff edge. We are not falling for it.
The Prime Minister thinks he can treat Parliament however he wants. He thinks he can ignore the people of Scotland and treat our Scottish Parliament, our Government and our citizens as second-class citizens. Scotland will not be ignored. Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU. Scotland voted overwhelmingly for the SNP, to oppose the Tory Government here in Westminster. And Scotland will have the chance to vote to say that this Prime Minister and this Government do not represent the people of Scotland and our wishes. Since the referendum, we have been treated with contempt, shouted down, with our voices silenced and our interests sidelined. Let me put the Prime Minister on notice: the election is coming.
Paul Scully
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I fear that my right hon. Friend may have inadvertently misled the House given the fact that every single Member of this party who has lost the Whip is still a member of the Conservative party unless they have chosen to cross the Floor. Therefore, the situation that he has described is not actually the case. It is important to realise that the discussion that we are having is that we need to be in the place—
Mr Speaker
Order. I do not wish to be unkind to the hon. Gentleman, because I recognise that he feels that he has a serious point, but it is not a matter for the Chair. The right hon. Member for Rutland and Melton (Sir Alan Duncan) has, if I may say so, made a speech whose meaning is perfectly clear. If the hon. Gentleman wants to disagree with him, he can do so elsewhere, but it is not a matter that requires my adjudication. I was absolutely clear what the right hon. Gentleman was saying and I do not think that the House feels misled, if I may very politely say so.
Jo Swinson
The hon. Gentleman might do well to pay rather more attention to his constituents in Cheltenham and what they would like to see happen. In answer to his point, of course Liberal Democrats want us to stay in the European Union, and we want people to have the ability to choose that option in a people’s vote. We have argued for—[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. There were points of order earlier in our proceedings about conduct that was very intimidating for Members and, in some cases, Members’ families. I know that there are inflamed passions, but I just ask Members to consider this: the hon. Lady is trying to deliver a speech and doing so with her customary eloquence and fluency; she should not be shouted down and she will not be—stop it.
Jo Swinson
Thank you, Mr Speaker. I appreciate that others in the House would like the Liberal Democrats to be silenced, but that will not happen on my watch, because we are crystal clear on Brexit. We want to stop Brexit, and that is why thousands of people across the country are joining the Liberal Democrats, including MPs from both the Labour and the Conservative parties.
Whether it is votes in this House or ministerial colleagues, the Prime Minister is making a habit of losing. Although I believe that a people’s vote is the best route to resolve this, I say to the Prime Minister that he can have his general election as soon as he secures an extension. Otherwise, we risk the scenario of a general election where we might crash out of the European Union without a deal either during or in the immediate aftermath of such an election and with Parliament not sitting at those crucial moments. It would be the height of irresponsibility to dissolve Parliament at that time. Any general election must be undertaken in a period of calm, with an orderly approach, not in a period of national crisis.
The Prime Minister is playing at this. In his speech tonight, he made it sound like this was sport—like this was a game. This is not a student debating society. This is about the national interest and being sure that we avoid the risk of a no-deal Brexit, and that is why we will vote down his motion tonight.
Mr Speaker
Order. I have never known a situation in which Mr Gapes cannot be heard. If there is some private spat taking place, it should take place outside the Chamber, not in it. It is very unsatisfactory.
Mr Speaker
I say by way of explanation for those who observe our proceedings—the nods suggest they are well ahead of me, which I would expect—that the majority does not satisfy the requirements of the Fixed-term Parliaments Act 2011 for the purpose of engendering the election that some seek—[Hon. Members: “Shame!”] I am simply the messenger, and I have reported the facts. I am glad that the matter is of interest to those who are looking upstairs. Thank you very much indeed.
The Prime Minister
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I earlier urged the House to trust the people, but once again the Opposition think they know better. They want the British Prime Minister to go to a vital negotiation without the power to walk away. They want to delay Brexit yet again, without further reference to those who voted for it, handing over to Brussels an extra £250 million a week for no purpose—enough to upgrade more than five hospitals or train 5,000 new nurses. And most egregiously of all, not only have they refused to choose the way ahead; they have now twice denied the British people their say in an election. The House cannot choose; it will not let anyone else choose. It resolves only to be irresolute and decides only to be undecided, determined to dither, adamant for drift, so now the House will move to adjourn and resume with the state opening and the Queen’s Speech on 14 October. I hope the Opposition will use that time to reflect. Meanwhile, the Government will press on with negotiating a deal, while preparing to leave without one. I will go to that crucial summit in Brussels on 17 October, and no matter how many devices this Parliament invents to tie my hands, I will strive to get an agreement in the national interest.
This Government will not delay Brexit any further. We will not allow the emphatic verdict of the referendum to be slowly suffocated by further calculated drift and paralysis. While the Opposition run from their duty to answer to those who put us here, they cannot hide forever. The moment will come when the people will finally get the chance to deliver their verdict on how faithfully this House executed their wishes, and I am determined that they will see that it was this Government who were on their side.
Jeremy Corbyn
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. [Interruption.] I think we have had quite enough playground politics from the Conservative party this evening. The one thing the Prime Minister did not say was that he was going to obey the law of this country. He did not say that he acknowledged or accepted three votes that have taken place in this Parliament. At his request, the House is now apparently due to be prorogued this evening for one of the longest prorogations in history simply in order to avoid any questioning of what he is doing or not doing, simply to avoid discussion about Yellowhammer, and particularly to avoid any discussion about the proposals that have been put to the European Union that he has or does not have or that do or do not exist. This Government are a disgrace, and the way the Prime Minister operates is a disgrace—[Interruption.]
Jeremy Corbyn
I hope that the Prime Minister will reflect on proroguing and shutting down Parliament to avoid a Government being held to account, because that is exactly what he is doing today and proposes to do to this country.
Mr Speaker
There are two actions that can be taken. One is to speak on the Floor of the House, which is what the hon. Lady has just done, and to that extent she has found her own salvation. The second course of action open to her is to deposit the petition in the Bag. I have a feeling that, with a fleetness of foot that will be admired in all parts of the House, that is the action she will now take. It may be a second best so far as she is concerned but, as I say, she has found a means by which to give expression to the concerns of her constituents.
Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. We now face 34 days during which all the checks, balances and gears of parliamentary democracy have been deliberately stalled while the Government teeter between avoiding and evading the law. This is neither normal nor honourable.
We desperately need a new politics of citizens’ conventions in every nation and of truth and conciliation in an informed referendum, with article 50 revoked, if necessary, to allow that to happen. In all honesty I know I cannot ask you to resolve this, but I think the time is fast approaching when you will have to do exactly that.
Mr Speaker
The House is in charge of its own procedures. I note the opinion that the hon. Gentleman holds, and it will be shared by many of his colleagues, I am sure, but not by others. As I say, the House is in command of its own procedures. We do not have Executive control of the House. The House can do as it wishes in these matters, and his opinion on this subject will have been heard.
Mr Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Wickford) (Con)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I have not served in this House for as long as you, but I do recall that about a decade ago the Lisbon treaty was rammed through this House, without a referendum. That caused such ill feeling among the people of the United Kingdom that, in a way that no one could have predicted at the time, within seven years the people of this country voted to leave the EU. My point is that the people who rammed the treaty through at the time thought they were being very clever, but history proved them wrong. The people on the other side of the House who think they have been very clever tonight by resisting a general election cannot hide forever from the judgment of the people. They should ask not for whom the bell tolls, because eventually it tolls for them.
Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Could you advise me how I register my anger and deep frustration at the outrageous and profoundly undemocratic suspension of this Parliament this evening? With barely seven weeks before the UK is due to leave the European Union, my constituents are deeply worried, understandably so, that, as the right hon. Member for Hastings and Rye (Amber Rudd) said at the weekend, this Government have no interest in securing a deal and are hellbent on pursuing a catastrophic policy of no deal. Along with every other part of Scotland, my constituency voted overwhelmingly to remain. We are facing profound and devastating effects on our tourism, farming and fishing industries, and surely the least that my constituents could expect is that their view Member of Parliament is able to represent them in this Chamber at this most critical moment.
Mr Speaker
The hon. Gentleman began his attempted point of order by inquiring how he could register his anger, and he has of course now done so. It is on the record and it will be reproduced in the Official Report. Something tells me that his observations in the Official Report will shortly be winging their way towards the local media in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency.
Patricia Gibson
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The people of Scotland voted overwhelmingly to remain in the EU. I seek your guidance because tonight not only have they been ignored, but their views have been dismissed with utter contempt. I ask you what outlet the people of Scotland can have until they can express their view about their constitutional future as to being part of this moribund and corrupt Union, which has been exemplified tonight.
Mr Speaker
The time when the hon. Lady’s constituents, and, more widely, the electorate of Scotland, might be in a position to register their views in the way she suggests could well be not long from now.
Mr Speaker
No set of points of order would be complete without the product of the lucubrations of the hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire (Martin Docherty-Hughes).
Martin Docherty-Hughes
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I wonder whether you could advise me on process for what is supposed to be the mother of Parliaments. [Interruption.] Non-sober Members on the Government Benches should maybe wheesht a wee bit, especially those who cannae haud their drink. If the Government do not meet the obligations of a vote of the House in the next few weeks, what is open not only to Members—who have overwhelmingly rejected the Government’s position not only on a general election at this time but, more importantly, on implementing the decisions of the majority of Members in relation to a no-deal Brexit— but to you, as Chair of this House, to assure not only me but my constituents that a Government who do not listen to the so-called sovereign Parliament are therefore undermining fundamentally—[Interruption.] The hon. Member should maybe wheesht a wee minute. I have told him once; I will not tell him again. The fact that he is not even able to take a chair—he is sitting on the flair—says mair about him than any other Member in this House. If the Government will not implement the law of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland, what is open to you, Mr Speaker, and the House to ensure that they do?
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. At this stage it is a hypothetical question, because one would need to look at the specifics, but what I would say to him is that if there is a dispute as to what a law means, or what compliance with it looks like, that is ultimately justiciable, and therefore it is to be expected that it would be the subject of a court ruling. These are not uncommon matters, so it would be a very high-profile situation in the circumstances with which we are dealing, but it does seem to me that Members should reflect upon these matters, and think about their options and the attitude of their colleagues, in the cool light of day. That is not necessarily best achieved by a furious focus at 12.51 in the morning.
Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. During the course of this process, the European Statutory Instruments Committee was set up in order to sift those statutory instruments that would be required in the event of Brexit happening. In advance of 29 March, the Government brought forward a number of these no-deal SIs so that, as they said, the UK would be prepared for a no-deal Brexit. The Committee has sifted 240 of these SIs that have come forward as negative instruments—there will be 580 in total.
I have discovered today that the Government intend to bring forward 10 of these statutory instruments as made affirmative statutory instruments, in order to ensure that we are prepared for a no-deal exit. I am a bit confused as to why the Government did not bring these forward in advance of 29 March, if a no-deal Brexit was supposed to happen on that date, or the second date on which a no-deal Brexit was supposed to happen, or in fact at any time before Prorogation happened so that the Committee could sift them, as appropriate, and the House would have the opportunity to have its say on whether or not these were appropriate statutory instruments to go through. Is there any recourse that we can have, given that Prorogation is about to happen and these instruments will be made without the say-so of the House?
Mr Speaker
I am not privy to the Government’s thoughts on these matters. It would be perfectly open for a member of the Executive branch to respond to the hon. Lady if he or she so wished, but I do not detect a notable enthusiasm. I am not aware, looking at him now and at his body language, that the Leader of the House is about to uncoil. If he were to do so, doubtless he would give a response, but he is not doing so. Although it is a matter of very considerable importance to the hon. Lady, it is not something in relation to which I can offer her help now. I suggest that she takes it up, in view of the important position that she holds in her party, with the Leader of the House, whom I must say I have always found to be, in every dealing, a most courteous and agreeable individual. I am sure that he would be more than content to discuss the matter with her, over either a cup of English breakfast tea or, conceivably, something stronger.
Dr Johnson
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Earlier this week, the Leader of the Opposition said that he would vote for a general election tonight if Royal Assent was passed, but today he said that he would not, because he wants to prevent no deal. Can you confirm that, if an election had been held on 15 October, there would have been plenty of time, had he won the election, to have prevented no deal, so, in actual fact, there must be another reason for him running scared?
Mr Speaker
I cannot confirm anything of the sort. The expression “plenty of time” is an evaluative statement and it is obviously a view that the hon. Lady holds and she is entitled to it, but I certainly cannot confirm anything of the sort. I think that, essentially, she is accusing the Leader of the Opposition of tergiversation. [Interruption.] Yes, tergiversation. It is not a new charge. It is a charge that has been levelled many times over the centuries.
Mr Speaker
No, no. Nothing further is required. That is the charge that the hon. Lady is levelling, but it is not a fatal charge. It has to be said that not only is it not a fatal charge, but it is not a novel concept, or without precedent in the history of our politics. We will leave it there.
Stephen Gethins (North East Fife) (SNP)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The Prime Minister has previously intimated that there may be a number of solutions and new negotiations ahead of the next European Council. Members on the Government Benches might say that he is being disingenuous, but if we are prorogued, what opportunity does this House have to consider them before the next European Council?
Mr Speaker
The House is scheduled to return on 14 October and the hon. Gentleman knows for what purpose we will resume—for the Gracious Address and the opening of the new Session—but the House and its Members are legendarily ingenious in ensuring that that which they wish to be attended to in the House is attended to in the House.
Order. The sitting is now suspended until 1.10 am. Shortly before the sitting resumes, I shall cause the Division bells to be sounded.
Points of Order
John Bercow Excerpts(4 years, 8 months ago)
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Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I want to put on record my thanks to you for being a superb Speaker of this House, my thanks to you as a colleague in Parliament, and my thanks to your family for the way in which they have supported you through often very difficult times when many of the media have been very unfair on you. Your two sons are getting good at football. I did some kicks with them in Speaker’s Court the other day and I was very impressed, actually; they are coming on well. And I know you support the same club as me.
In your role as Speaker, you have totally changed the way in which the job has been done. You have reached out to people across the whole country. You have visited schools, you have visited factories, you have visited offices; you have talked to people about the role of Parliament and democracy. I have never forgotten you coming to City and Islington College in my constituency and spending the morning with me talking to a group of students, all of whom had learning difficulties, and we discussed with them the roles of democracy and Parliament.
You have taken absolutely on board the words of Speaker Lenthall that you are there to be guided by and act on behalf of our Parliament. This Parliament is the stronger for your being Speaker. Our democracy is the stronger for your being the Speaker. Whatever you do when you finally step down from Parliament, you do so with the thanks of a very large number of people, and as one who has made the role of Speaker in the House more powerful, not less powerful. I welcome that. As somebody who aspires to hold Executive office, I like the idea of a powerful Parliament holding the Executive to account; it is something I have spent the last 35 years doing myself.
So, Mr Speaker, enjoy the last short period in your office, but it is going to be one of the most dramatic there has been. I think your choice of timing and date is incomparable and will be recorded in the history books of parliamentary democracy. Mr Speaker, on behalf of the Labour party I thank you for your work in promoting democracy and this House. Thank you.
Mr Speaker
Thank you. I just say to the right hon. Gentleman, the Leader of the Opposition, that he is very much more experienced and senior than I, but I think that as Back Benchers in our respective parties we did have quite a lot in common. Certainly, speaking for myself, as a Back Bencher, and frequently as an Opposition Front Bencher, I found that I had a relationship with my Whips characterised by trust and understanding—I didn’t trust them and they didn’t understand me.
The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster (Michael Gove)
Further to that a point of order, Mr Speaker. I would like, perhaps for the first time, to associate myself wholeheartedly with the comments of the Leader of the Opposition. Since you entered the House of Commons in 1997, it has been clear to everyone who has seen you work as a diligent constituency MP, an effective Back Bencher, and also a tenacious Front Bencher in your time, that you love this House of Commons, you love our democracy, and your commitment to your principles and your constituents is unwavering and an example to others.
This evening I shall vote with many of my colleagues for an early general election. I hope you will not take that personally, Mr Speaker, because I have no wish to prematurely truncate your time in the Chair. However controversial the role of a backstop may be in other areas, your role as the Back Benchers’ backstop has certainly been appreciated by individuals across this House. I have spent much, though not all, of the last 10 years as a member of the Executive, but I have also been a Back Bencher in this House, and I have personally appreciated the way in which you have always sought to ensure that the Executive answer for their actions. History will record the way in which you have used the urgent question procedure and other procedures to hold the Executive to account and have restored life and vigour to Parliament, and in so doing, you have been in the very best tradition of Speakers.
From time to time, those of us on the Government Benches might have bridled at some of the judgments you have made, but I have never been in any doubt that you have operated on the basis that the Executive must be answerable to this House in the same way as this House is answerable to the people. You have done everything in your power to ensure not just the continued but the underlined relevance of this place. Your love of democracy is transparent in everything that you say and do, and as such, I want, on behalf of myself as an individual and on behalf of the Conservative party, to thank you. As a fellow parent of pupils at a distinguished west London comprehensive, may I also say how important it is that discipline is maintained in this House? Your energetic efforts to do so are appreciated even by those of us who may not always be the best behaved in class.
Mr Speaker
I thank the right hon. Gentleman. That was characteristically generous and gracious of him. At the risk of inflicting some damage upon his otherwise flourishing political career, I have on more than one occasion paid public tribute to the quality of the right hon. Gentleman. One of the reasons why he does not complain about urgent questions being granted, to which he has at short notice to answer, is that he is quick enough, bright enough, sharp enough, fair-minded enough, articulate enough and dextrous enough to be able to cope with whatever is thrown at him. I do not want this to become a mutual admiration society, because I am not sure whether it would be more damaging to him or me, but I thank him for what he said, for the way in which he said it and for the spirit that his remarks embody.
Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I would not seek for a minute to challenge your decision, not least because you would rule me out of order, but I have to say that I regret it and respect it. I say that for this reason. When the history books come to be written, you will be described as one of the great reforming Speakers of the House of Commons. You have indeed been the Back Benchers’ friend and supporter, but in every decision you have made, you have put one consideration above everything else: your wish to enable the House of Commons to discuss matters and to express a view.
There have been occasions when some in the House have taken umbrage at decisions that you have reached, but you have stood by your beliefs and principles, and many Members of this House are eternally grateful to you for having stood up for our rights, enabling us to debate and then to vote on something. The fact that the Speaker decides that something should be debated is not the Speaker saying that the House should agree it; it is the Speaker saying that we should be able to cast our vote. That is why we will regard you in that light for many, many years to come. Thank you very much indeed.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
I call my very loyal and brilliant next-door neighbour of over 20 years in constituency terms, Mr David Lidington.
Mr David Lidington (Aylesbury) (Con)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. May I—as an elector in the Buckingham constituency, not least—offer an expression of thanks to you for your work as a constituency Member of Parliament over the past 22 years? Talking to neighbours and acquaintances in all parts of the Buckingham constituency over the years that you have represented it, I have been struck by the fact that men and women of very different political persuasions, and indeed those of no particular party affiliation, are united in their appreciation of the fact that you have never allowed your considerable duties as Speaker of the House to detract from your responsibility to represent their interests in Buckingham and to respond to the concerns that they raise with you. Colleagues in all parts of the House will speak about your record as Speaker, but those of us in Buckinghamshire will know how you have continued to speak on and champion local interests and local issues.
I know, too, that you will be missed among the somewhat eclectic team of hon. and right hon. Members representing the county of Buckinghamshire. It is perhaps a good measure of the fact that in this place, despite frequent clashes and disagreements, we can still manage to get on. Those Buckinghamshire parliamentary meetings bring together not just you and me but my right hon. Friend the Member for Chesham and Amersham (Dame Cheryl Gillan) and both my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Beaconsfield (Mr Grieve) and my hon. Friend the Member for Wycombe (Mr Baker) in a spirit of harmony, at least on county matters.
I thank you for what you have done for us locally and, if I may say so as a former Leader of the House, for what you have done to communicate more to people, particularly to schoolchildren and students around the country, about how this place works and the constitutional significance of Parliament in defending the liberties and debating the interests of the next generation.
Mr Speaker
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for what he has said. I want to observe—others will bear testimony to this, in the light of what he has just said— that the right hon. Gentleman was, frankly, an outstanding Leader of the House of Commons. He is one of the most co-operative and collaborative colleagues whom one could hope to meet. He gets things done, he is extremely personable, and I think it is fair to say that he works based on periodic political difference but continuing personal amiability. If others of us were able to model ourselves on the way in which he has gone about his work over the last 27 years as a Member of Parliament, we would probably be doing better. I thank him for what he has said.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
We must proceed before too long, but I do apologise very sincerely to the right hon. Gentleman—the leader of the third party in this House—for failing to see him at an earlier point, which I should have done.
Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) (SNP)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. On behalf of those of us on the SNP Benches, may I say that we will be sad to see you leave office at the end of October? It is fair to say that you have shown considerable grace and purpose—not just to us, but to Members across this House. We are eternally grateful for the way in which you have conducted yourself, particularly over these last few months—at a time, let us be honest, of constitutional crisis for all of us—and for the way you have facilitated Back Benchers, in particular, in being able to hold the Executive to account and, indeed, in making sure that those of us whom people send to this place are able to do our job to the best of our endeavours in representing their interests.
Like the Leader of the Opposition, we are grateful that you will be with us until the end of October, and we look forward to the guidance and supervision you will give to our affairs over the coming weeks. You have been a great friend to many of us in this House. We wish every good wish to you and your family for the coming period. You will always get a friendly welcome in Scotland, and indeed we would love to see you up in Ross, Skye and Lochaber. Mr Speaker, thank you very much on behalf of all of us.
Dame Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. As you know, at the beginning of this Parliament, you asked me if I would propose you for the Chair, and I was very pleased to do so. I made the immortal statement:
“I think he annoys Members on all the Front Benches from time to time, which is probably testament to his even-handedness.”—[Official Report, 13 June 2017; Vol. 626, c. 4.]
I think there was not a dry eye in the House, because that was true.
I have to add my voice to that of my Buckinghamshire colleague, my right hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury (Mr Lidington), for the simple reason that, as a colleague in Buckinghamshire, you have been absolutely superb. Speaking as the only female representative of a constituency in Buckinghamshire, I sometimes find it necessary to keep some of you boys under control, because you do not always quite see eye to eye—with me.
I rise to my feet to say a big thank you to you for something else you have done in your time as Speaker. You have hosted events for more than 1,000 charities in Speaker’s House. You have been a true champion of people with autism. Today, as the all-party parliamentary group publishes a report on the 10 years since the Autism Act 2009, I pay tribute to everything you have done, particularly for charitable works, but also for people and families with autism.
I have one great regret, knowing that you are going to stand down. I will lose a great champion in my fight against HS2, and I very much hope that when you retire from the House, whatever you do, you will continue to join me in the fight against HS2 and continue, most importantly, to champion those people with autism and their families.
Mr Speaker
I thank the right hon. Lady for what she said, and for all the good fellowship that she and I have enjoyed over the 22 years I have been in the House with her.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
It is as matter of seniority as well as a magnificent tie. I call Mr Barry Sheerman.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I remember that when I first met you I went home to my wife and said, “I’ve met this really bumptious, self-opinionated, right-wing, objectionable character.” I could say that you haven’t changed, but the fact of the matter is that you have been an exemplary Speaker. You have been Parliament’s Speaker. I have been here quite a long time, so I have seen people organising the Speaker’s election—usually the Whips. You broke that tradition—we broke that tradition, cross-party. We wanted you, and we denied the Whips their choice, and we got you. Those of us who have been around this place for some time do not regret for a moment that we got Parliament’s Speaker. You have proved that we were right in our choice.
You have been magnificent in the way you have gone around the country. I remember the occasion—we planned it well in advance—when you chose to come to Huddersfield for the whole day. Unfortunately, it was the day after the referendum. It was quite an interesting atmosphere. I remember you getting to Huddersfield and saying, “This is an awfully long way, isn’t it, Barry?” However, you did get about, and you saw how constituents worked. You came to the University of Huddersfield, and you did the job well.
You also, as Speaker, have been the champion of the Back Bencher. The people on the Front Benches—the Whips—love to have their own way. You were determined to let people like me—a Back Bencher—and other Back Benchers have their say. There has been a renaissance of Parliament under your speakership. I hope only that we get someone half as good as you when we single-mindedly, happily, diversely, and democratically choose your successor. Thank you for everything you have done for parliamentary democracy.
Mr Speaker
Bless you, Barry, for what you have said. [Interruption.] Will hon. Members forgive me? I call Mr Dominic Grieve.
Mr Dominic Grieve (Beaconsfield) (Ind)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. As another Buckinghamshire MP, I could not fail to rise to say words of thanks to you for what you have done.
You may recall—it is perhaps worth recalling—that when you were first elected Speaker I think I was the only person in the Chamber who did not stand to applaud you. That was for two reasons. First, I rather disapprove of these displays and, secondly, my preferences lay elsewhere. I think I also indicated to you subsequently that I would do my very best to support you. As the years have gone by, I have come to appreciate that in the extraordinary times in which we live, your leadership of this House has been, in my judgment, exemplary in standing up for the rights of Back Benchers. You will undoubtedly go down as such, setting a benchmark that, built on by future Speakers, will enable the House to operate very much better.
As for Buckinghamshire, Mr Speaker, you will undoubtedly be missed. I sometimes think in the troubled times in which we live, it is time to return to those 17th-century practices of setting up county associations and deciding to keep the rest of the world out, because we would then find that we agree with each other 100%.
Mr Speaker
I thank the right hon. and learned Gentleman for what he said. I regard him as a quite exceptional parliamentarian, so to receive a tribute from him means a great deal to me, and I think he knows that.
Ms Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I am one of those who originally supported you when you stood, in quite troubled times and unexpectedly, to be the Speaker. I did so because you had already demonstrated to me and to others that you were open-minded enough to have gone on a journey. People have not expressed this particular part of you yet in these points of order, but your commitment to equality, women, LGBT people and the disabled, to ensure proper inclusion for everyone in our country and in our politics, is perhaps the thing that has most impressed me.
We worked together behind the scenes when I was shadow Leader of the House. I know how committed, in very difficult times, and wrestling with a rather conservative and hidebound institution, you have been. For that reason alone—for your determination, your judgment, your confidence in your judgment, your deep understanding of the way our Parliament works and your willingness to stand up for the rights of Back Benchers against some of the most ferocious behaviour by Government—you will be remembered as one of the great reforming Speakers.
I hope that, as you get your evenings back, and as you will be able to make a choice about which chair you sit in and for how long—
Mr Speaker
I thank the hon. Lady. Put simply, I have been very lucky. If you do for a living something that causes you to jump out of bed in the morning looking forward to the day ahead, then frankly you are blessed.
Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. You have been an extraordinary Speaker—an outstanding Speaker. Over the past few weeks, I have very much disagreed with your interpretation of certain Standing Orders, but for the 14 years I have been here you have transformed this place. You used to sit behind me on the Opposition Benches heckling the Government like mad—and then I hear the nerve, Sir, of you telling us off for heckling! I hope, when we forget the Brexit period, you will be remembered for completely transforming this place and allowing Back Benchers to do their job, and for allowing new Members the opportunity to fulfil a career as a Back Bencher while not necessarily wanting to be a Minister.
Mr Speaker
The hon. Gentleman speaks from personal experience as a parliamentarian who is always ready to speak truth to power. I identify with him. What he says, not least in the light of some of his recent disagreements with me, is big of him.
Lucy Powell
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I want to associate myself with everything that has been said so far, except perhaps the remarks about HS2.
May I just add a couple of points that have not been mentioned? First, without your family-friendly reforms to this place, particularly the opening of the nursery, your willingness to introduce proxy voting, and allowing babies and young children into the Lobby, I and many others in this place, mothers and fathers alike, would not have been able to carry out our duties and to carry on being Members of Parliament. I thank you enormously for those changes and reforms.
In your time as Speaker, probably the most difficult event was the murder of our friend, Jo Cox. You gave leadership to this whole place, to our collective grief and to the grief of her community and her family, visiting her constituency the day after her terrible murder. I know her family would want me to thank you from the bottom of their hearts for your leadership at that very, very difficult time for this House.
Mr Speaker
Thank you. As everybody here knows, Jo was very special, and she will remain in our hearts for as long as we live.
Mr Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. As a Buckinghamshire colleague, it has been a huge pleasure and privilege to work alongside you to further the interests of our constituents—I say “our constituents” because I fondly remember occasions on which I have needed to speak in this place on your behalf, and it has been my privilege and pleasure to do so. It would be graceless of me, of course, to refer to anything where I might possibly have disagreed with you, but I just say that it is perfectly plain to me that you love this place and this Parliament, and I am grateful for all your service.
Mr Speaker
I thank the hon. Gentleman; he is a conviction politician, and that deserves respect.
Jo Swinson (East Dunbartonshire) (LD)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I express thanks from those on the Liberal Democrat Benches for your decade of service in the Chair.
Very often, to those outside, Parliament can appear stuffy and out of touch. Some of the initiatives that have come in on your watch, including the Wright reforms, with topical questions, and your willingness to grant urgent questions have meant that when people talk about issues outside this place we can discuss them in a timely way in the House, and that has been important.
I was very moved by your tribute to your wife and children, because the families of all of us in this place put up with a lot for us to do the jobs that we do. I echo the comments of the hon. Member for Manchester Central (Lucy Powell) about the reforms that you have made possible, including the parliamentary nursery, babies being able to be in voting Lobbies—indeed, your forbearance in not asking me to leave when I brought baby Gabriel into this House—and the proxy voting reforms, which have already made such a difference for Members with small babies during these rather intense few months of parliamentary debate. Those reforms have been truly important and you have been a truly modernising Speaker. As I am sure you would agree, there is much more to do, and I hope that whoever is your successor will continue in that tradition.
Finally, you have been an absolutely unstinting guardian of parliamentary democracy at a time when people feel the need to take to the streets to argue to defend our democracy. I think back to my first term in this place, between 2005 and 2010. If you had asked me at the time to pinpoint the most important vote that I cast in those five years, I am not convinced that I would have chosen that vote in 2009, but choosing you to be Speaker of this House was arguably the most important vote cast for the future of our country and our parliamentary democracy. I am very glad that I and others in this House made that choice.
Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. So far, we have mainly heard from distinguished Members on the two Front Benches or immediately prior Members, but I speak on behalf of the permanent, or semi-permanent, Back Benchers, who either by their own wish, or in my case because nobody has ever asked me, have not joined the Front Bench team in recent years. Although I have not followed you in your political journey and on many occasions you have absolutely infuriated me, I have to say, on behalf of Back Benchers, that there is one thing that nobody can ever take away from you: you have been determined to give a voice to those people in this place who want to ask real questions of the Executive. For this, we will always be grateful.
Mr Speaker
I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman. He was, of course, a talented Minister but I have always thought, because I know that his career came to a premature end, that he suffered from the notable disadvantage, as a member of the Government, of not only holding opinions, but feeling inclined, with notable frequency—whether wanted or not—to express them. That seemed to me why he was removed from the Government, but the Executive’s loss was Parliament’s gain.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I would like to add our party’s thanks to you. You have always been the Back Bencher’s champion. You have called me as often as the hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman). You often chastise me gently for saying “you”, but can I say that you have done excellently for Back Benchers? I will try hard not to use that word on other occasions. You have called me to order a few times, but gently, with your humour, kindness and good will, have enabled me to learn the protocols of this House in a way that I hope will stay with me for some time to come. Even with my Ulster Scots and my accent, you always seem to understand me.
You mentioned Sally and your children. The most important thing for us all in the House is the sanity we get when we go back to our families. They are incredibly important. As you know, I turn up for the Adjournment debate every night, and you are always here as well. I will miss you when you are not here. Whatever you do in this world, I know that you will do it well. I wish you well. I wish your family well. Godspeed and God bless.
Mr Speaker
Colleagues, I hope you will forgive me if I say this very publicly to the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon). I bet others have noticed it—I certainly have, ever since he came into the House and we got to know each other. The hon. Gentleman is a person of strong religious faith. As it happens, I am not. I have always been proud of my Jewish roots and my Jewish identity, but I am not a practising religious person. What I admire about the hon. Gentleman—and it makes him a most lovable figure in the House of Commons—is that he radiates warmth, empathy and compassion. He is one of those people of faith who do not spend time preaching it but live it.
Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. Such is the length of our relationship and our friendship, which has been long suspected and about which I think we can now come clean, that I rushed here from Lincolnshire when I heard the news of your imminent departure. In an age of technocratic turgidity and mechanistic mediocrity, you have brought colour and style to this place. No one could deny your eloquence or your extraordinary, encyclopaedic grasp of facts, of which we are all envious. I do not know how you manage to remember not only facts about our constituencies but our birthdays, wedding anniversaries, children’s names—what don’t you remember, Mr Speaker?
You have given life to this place in a way that few could ever have managed and few of your predecessors achieved. You have made this place far more interesting than it would have been without you. But there is something else that is rarely said about you, and it is this. I fully recognise your sensitivity and humanity. There are countless acts of kindness that you have shown Members of this House that are never publicised—because they would not be by their nature—and to which it is only fair now to draw attention. When Members have had difficulties of one sort or another—the trials and tribulations which are the inevitable consequences of life here—you have always been there for them. That work as our Speaker needs to be recorded and celebrated, and acknowledged today. I will miss you not only for your indulgence, of which I have been a frequent beneficiary, as you well know, but for your character and style, and that will last long after you leave the Chair, as I hope our friendship will.
Mr Speaker
Let me say to the right hon. Gentleman that our friendship will endure for a long time to come. Among other things that we have in common, we share a passion for, and a slightly obsessive preoccupation with, historical statistics relating to tennis.
By the way, I have never lost any sleep over a work-related matter, because it is not worth doing. The nights without sleep that I have tended to experience over the years, and doubtless will do so in the future, have ordinarily been during either the US Open or the Australian Open, when, as the right hon. Gentleman knows, my normal practice is to forgo sleep if the alternative is the opportunity to watch my all-time sporting hero, Roger Federer.
Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. You and I first came across each other well over 40 years ago, when we were both members of the Conservative party as students. I could not possibly repeat the language of the hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman), but I do endorse the “right-wing” bit. I, of course, was what was known then as a proud wet, and was certainly on the pink liberal wing of the Conservative party. Although our journey and our route have been somewhat different, I rather suspect that we are back together in our new place, and that will be interesting, as will all that follows. But I remember that when you were a student, you had a huge passion for politics and for Parliament, and, of course, you were hugely eloquent even then. All those things have served you well for many years, in your role as a Member of Parliament but also in your role as Speaker, but, most important, they have served this place hugely well.
I will not repeat, but will just endorse, all the fine tributes about the great reforms that you have made to this place, especially on behalf of women, but also on behalf of all the young people in my constituency and the children who have come to this place in a way that previous generations certainly did not, who have learned so much and who have felt engaged.
Finally, I want to apologise on behalf of the small group of us who, by virtue of our appalling behaviour, found ourselves founder members of the “Three Bs”. When I come back, as I think I will at some stage—[Interruption]—yes, that is right, if we have any such general election—I will bring you the little badge that I have with the three Bs, which stand for “Bollocked By Bercow”. I am very proud of my membership of that club. But, on behalf of my merry band—and, indeed, all of us—I thank you for everything that you have done, and the great service that you have given to this place.
Mr Speaker
As the hon. Gentleman says from a sedentary position, we have got until October, but first of all we must hear from Mr David Lammy.
Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. Much has been said, obviously, by Members of Parliament in this place, but I want to put on record what I suspect are deep thanks in huge parts of the country, and to echo absolutely what has been said by, in particular, my hon. Friend the Member for Wallasey (Ms Eagle).
I was in the House after the riots of 2011, and I thank you, Mr Speaker, for helping to recall the House to debate that very important subject. I also thank you for, most recently, after a scandal that involved people with Caribbean backgrounds, granting my urgent question that allowed the revelation of that scandal. So many issues concerning minorities in this country could so easily have remained on the fringes, as has been the case during previous decades in our country—thank you for putting them at the centre of the action in this Parliament.
Thank you, also, for appointing Rose Hudson-Wilkin as the Chaplain when the establishment might have preferred a different choice. Yes, the role of Speaker is to be part of the establishment, but it takes a giant—and, of course, you are not a giant—to stand up to that establishment and never be cowed. The next Speaker will have very, very big shoes to fill.
Mr Speaker
That is extraordinarily eloquent and generous. I do not want to comment on anything the right hon. Gentleman has said about me but I want instead to endorse in triplicate what he has just said about the Right Rev. Rose Hudson-Wilkin, Chaplain to the Speaker of the House of Commons, a great servant to Parliament, in her place in the Under Gallery now, a source of comfort and inspiration to me for the last nine years. There has not been a single day when I have not felt delighted and reinforced in my insistence, and it was my insistence, that Rose should be appointed to that role. There is always scope for legitimate difference of opinion, but there were people—part of what I have to say outside of this place I will call the bigot faction—who volunteered their views as to what an inapposite appointment I had made with all the force and insistence at their disposal, which sadly from their point of view were in inverse proportion to their knowledge of the subject matter under discussion. They had not met Rose, they did not know her, they could not form a view; they had a stupid, dim-witted, atavistic, racist and rancid opposition to the Rev. Rose. I was right, they were wrong: the House loves her. [Applause.]
Dawn Butler (Brent Central) (Lab)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I want to say a huge thank you for all that you have done for Back Benchers and for democracy, especially throughout this time as we discuss Brexit. I also want to thank you for all the firsts you have done in the House. In the Stonewall list of LGBT+ employers, Parliament has moved up now to 23rd; I think we were down in the 70s and 80s before. Parliament has been ranked as one of the best 100 employers at the race equality awards; that is because of your guidance and leadership, Mr Speaker. And thank you for appointing Rev. Rose; I think she is in the corner crying, with the rest of us. Thank you so much, Mr Speaker; she has been amazing, as have you.
We have also had the first Muslim Serjeant at Arms and the first female Clerk Assistant of the House, and young people being allowed to debate in this Chamber has come under you, Mr Speaker. There are also all the charity events that you have held in Speaker’s House—such as for British sign language and the Windrush—and being able to raise the flag for International Women’s Day outside Parliament for the first time, and Black History Month. I could go on about all that you have done to modernise this place, and I thank you from the bottom of my heart, Mr Speaker.
I hope you can just bear with me, Mr Speaker, because equality is a theme that you have championed. Following last week’s resignation, I am deeply concerned that the position that I shadow, Minister for Women and Equalities, remains vacant, and that, with more than half of the current Cabinet opposed to equal marriage, this brief has been undermined deliberately to roll back the hard fought-for rights and protections. Mr Speaker, being a bit of a “girly swot”, I have calculated that when the next person is appointed they will be the 10th to be appointed to the brief since 2010. The post has moved Departments four times, and a new Minister would be the fifth I will have shadowed in just two years. [Interruption.] Government Members may groan, but they do not feel even half the pain that we feel on this side of the House.
Trump recently described Boris Johnson as Britain’s Trump and he was grinning like a Cheshire cat. In the United States we have seen what can happen when a racist and sexist is placed in charge of a country: implementing a Muslim ban on people arriving and leaving the country, banning trans people from serving in the military, pushing to allow businesses to turn LGBT customers away and making it easier for LGBT people to be sacked, or telling “the squad”, a group of four elected Congresswomen of colour, to go back to their countries. Our Prime Minister is modelling his campaign on his mate Trump. This is proven by the fact that No. 10 recently carried out a so-called culture war on polling on trans people. It is a disgrace to equalities, and it is so obvious that the Tories do not care about this brief. Women have suffered 87% of the cuts, and we have seen a 375% rise in hate crime. We cannot allow this kind of hateful and divisive politics to continue to infect the UK. If any Government is in need of a Minister to fight against racism, sexism and homophobia, it is this one.
Mr Speaker, with your commitment to equality, I wonder if you can shed some light on this. Do you know when the Prime Minister will stop passing this vitally important brief around like an inconvenience, and when he will start treating the Women and Equalities brief with the respect that it deserves and appoint a full-time Secretary of State to the brief, and a Department, just as Labour has pledged to do?
Mr Speaker
The hon. Lady has said what she thought; it is on the record and people can make their own assessment of it. Let me just say that I do regard the portfolio as a matter of the utmost importance, and one of the encouraging phenomena of recent years has been the emergence of an apparent consensus across the House as to the importance of this set of issues. That is precious, and it should be cherished. It would be perilous if it were lost or put at risk. I very much hope that in the very difficult circumstances that we now face, there will be a replacement Minister soon. This is not a matter for me, but I feel very confident that an appointment will be made before very long.
These issues have to be focused on with a relentless tenacity. You cannot just take them for granted or think, “Job done.” Sadly, all too often, we observe people in very, very, very senior positions around the world who do not appear to be adequately conscious—if conscious at all—of the scale of their responsibilities. With power comes responsibility. For example, we do not want to hear and we utterly deprecate the use of language such as “Go back” as a political tool. The Government rightly criticised this; it is unacceptable and it should not be ignored. It has to be called out. We need a focus for these issues, and the existence of a Minister is a part of that focus, mirrored by the Select Committee that scrutinises the Minister’s work. We have an excellent Women and Equalities Committee—it is to the great credit of the Government that they established it—and it is important that it should have a Minister to scrutinise.
Jess Phillips (Birmingham, Yardley) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am thankful to my hon. Friend the Member for Brent Central (Dawn Butler) on our Front Bench for slightly changing the tone, because I have an actual point of order. I too wish to associate myself with all the comments that have been made. I have been called over the years to criticise you and also to defend you. Had I known what I have found out today about HS2, the latter would have been harder to do. I had no idea that you were against HS2, which will obviously revolutionise the place where I live. Anyway, that is not my point of order.
Mr Speaker, I know because of everything that has been said today that you encourage people like me to stand up and say when we think things are wrong and when we think things can be improved in parliament. I love Parliament just as you do, and I wish for it to be in its healthiest form so that people can once again trust us, because there is a lack of trust in the country of this place at the moment. I wonder if you could help me to understand, in cases where Members of this House are found, and proven, to have committed what I would call, in certain cases, violence against women and girls —regardless of whether they do it on parliamentary time or not—or where a Member of this House is in court for crimes that are violent or abusive, what protections we put in place for the vulnerable people who go to see them in their surgeries? When I worked in the voluntary sector, or if I was a teacher, a doctor or a police officer, I would not have been allowed to see the public during a period in which an investigation was ongoing into me and the potential abuse of vulnerable people. I have deep concerns about the safeguarding of the people of our country and about how the laws around vulnerable people do not apply to this place.
Mr Speaker
I take very seriously what the hon. Lady has said, which bears solemn reflection. Rather than giving some ill-judged response on the hoof, I would prefer to discuss the matter privately with the hon. Lady, which I make the genuine offer in the near future to do.
We do a lot of things much better than we did, but as the leader of the Liberal Democrats pointed out—I nodded vigorously as she made the observation—there is still a lot more to do. I like to view—I say this not least to those who are observing our proceedings—the cup as half full, rather than half empty, but there is a fine line between being proud of what has been achieved and being satisfied. Being proud of what has been achieved is very often justified, and we should not rubbish ourselves. Being satisfied is usually a very, very bad idea, because it is the shortest possible route to complacency, for which there is no justification. We need to do better.
I have come to know the hon. Member for Birmingham, Yardley (Jess Phillips) over the past four years, and I have learned a lot from her. She is one of the most authentic politicians and best communicators that one could hope to meet. Apart from anything else—I hope I carry my colleagues with me in making this observation—she has got guts and character to burn.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
The hon. Member for Bristol West (Thangam Debbonaire) was the loudest, and she also has the biggest smile.
Thangam Debbonaire (Bristol West) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. So many things have been said about you that I hope you will accept that I will make my tributes to you in private. I hope that we can continue to be friends, even though I am a Whip and you have said some rather interesting things about Whips.
I actually wish to make a point of order, which is that I asked the Leader of the House last week to apologise for comparing a whistleblower who felt that it was in the national interest for him to reveal details about the possible impact of a no-deal Brexit on very ill people—I am so sorry for not giving you advance notice of this—with a disgraced former doctor who made up evidence about the MMR immunisation, but he refused to do so. As a result of a decrease in MMR immunisations, herd immunity to measles—a deadly disease—has gone down in this country. The Leader of the House has since apologised in public, but that is of course not on the record. In making my point of order, I hope to put it on record that the Leader of the House has apologised, but I seek your guidance on whether he can be asked to come to this House to put on the record, with equal measure, his apology for what he said about a distinguished man to whom we should be grateful.
Mr Speaker
The hon. Lady has made her point with vigour and alacrity, and it is on the record. If she wants to obtain, almost in real time, an electronic copy of what she said and to deliver it to the office of the Leader of the House, she may well elicit a response. The Leader of the House of Commons, the right hon. Member for North East Somerset (Mr Rees-Mogg), is somebody I have known for a very long time. I have sometimes agreed with him and sometimes not, but I have found that the right hon. Gentleman, though he has delivered some extremely waspish and widely objected to comments on this occasion, has invariably been widely regarded as courteous. He is a polite man and a gracious person, and his characteristic generosity of spirit could serve him well here. He has apologised outside the House—that is my understanding from the media—and it is perfectly open to him to do so in the Chamber. It is not for the Speaker to instruct him to do so. It is incumbent upon a Member who has erred in this House to correct the record.
This is a matter of opinion, rather than of fact, but if he has apologised outside the House and can be cajoled, exhorted, charmed or persuaded by the hon. Member for Bristol West (Thangam Debbonaire) and me to beetle along to the Chamber to give us a sample of his contrition and humility, who knows? He may well be widely praised.
Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am very saddened, on behalf of Plaid Cymru, to make this address to you today. We are eternally grateful to you for making a point of ensuring that the various and multifarious voices of this House are heard. There is such a variety, and earlier you mentioned the importance of Members of Parliament and their role. We need to remember in this place that every Member of Parliament is returned in exactly the same way by their constituents. Whichever party we stand and speak for, we are all here equally. I only hope that your successor will follow in your footsteps, because it has meant much to us. Rydan ni’n ddiolchgar i chi o waelod ein calonnau. Diolch yn fawr iawn.
Mr Speaker
Thank you. That was a very beautiful tribute, and I appreciate what the right hon. Lady has said.
Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. It would be remiss of me not to say, on behalf of all the Unionist Members of this House, a huge and hearty Ulster thank you for the work you have done in this House, both in chairing these proceedings and, of course, in your 22 years as a Member of Parliament.
We thank you for your kindness outside the Chamber, as well as inside the Chamber. You have called one Member from Northern Ireland more than anyone else in the whole House—he obviously catches your eye better than the rest of us—and I know my hon. Friend the Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) has already thanked you.
Will you pass on a huge thank you to your staff? You have opened up the facilities of this House to Members of Parliament for charitable groups and for other activities, and your staff have been very obliging in assisting to ensure that issues of importance to them are properly advocated in this House.
Your comments were very Burkean in that you said it is not for us just to give of our industry but of our judgment. Each of us has different judgments on all sorts of matters. You, Sir, have been able to respect those judgments, even though, at times, they are very different from the views you hold and, indeed, very different from the views held by other Members of this House.
I know that nationalist Members from Northern Ireland who sat in this House would also like to be recorded publicly as thanking you. Even though nationalists no longer take their seats here, which is a shame, I know those nationalist Members who previously represented their constituents in this House would also like to say a word of thank you for the work you have done as Chairman of these proceedings.
From your many visits to Northern Ireland, I know you have a soft spot for Belfast and for the people there. I am sure you will receive a rousing reception in some places and a less rousing reception in other places, but you will be welcomed back in Belfast.
The one thing that will probably disappoint you most is that you are not the Speaker who will oversee the restoration and renewal of this building. I know that is a personal passion of yours, but maybe as we enter into a new dispensation, free from Europe, we will have a fresh, new Parliament to sit in.
Mr Speaker
I thank the hon. Gentleman for what he says but, above all, I am enormously appreciative of his remarks about the team in the Speaker’s Office, to whom I referred. They have been steadfast, unwavering, efficient and magnificent, all of them, and I have worked with many of them for several years in succession—a point of absolutely no interest to the bigoted faction who form their view and do not want any facts to get in the way. They will not write about it. They will scribble their bigoted drivel, because that is what they do. When their grandchildren ask, “What did you do for a living?”, they will say, “Well, I scribbled my bigoted drivel for some downmarket apology for a newspaper.”
Calling it a newspaper is probably a breach of the Trade Descriptions Act, but they will not mind—they are probably very proud. Trashy articles by trashy journalists for trashy newspapers. It goes with the turf. It is downmarket, substandard and low grade. There is no intellectual weight to it, but that is what they do. It will always be about ad hominem attacks, because that is what makes their world go round.
But the fact is that the people who work in my office have been outstanding. I know their worth. We know the strength of our relationship, and the person standing on my left is one of several who have worked with me for many, many years and has worked with me throughout the 10 years I have been in post as Speaker. He was in the office for a decade before. He was educated at the university of life. There is not a pompous bone in his body. He would not know the meaning of the word “snobbery” if it hit him over the head, but he is absolutely brilliant, and I am grateful to him—Peter Barratt.
Dr Sarah Wollaston (Totnes) (LD)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you for being one of the great reforming Speakers; it is you who is trying to take back control for this Parliament, and others should learn from your example. You have also been a great champion of Select Committees, and, as Chair of the Liaison Committee, I would like to thank you for that. You have also been a champion of allowing Back Benchers to hold the powerful to account. That is what my point of order is about now, and it is further to a previous point of order. Not only are NHS staff entitled to raise genuinely held concerns about patient safety, but they have a duty to do so, and they must be able to do this without fear of intimidation or bullying from people in positions of power, including Members of this House. Last week, the Leader of the House made highly offensive comments about Dr David Nicholl. I reiterate: unless the Leader of the House comes to this place to make an apology from the Floor of the House, what message does that send to NHS whistleblowers and what does it mean for patient safety?
Mr Speaker
I thank the hon. Lady for what she has said. She is an extremely distinguished denizen of the House, both in respect of her constituency work and of her chairing of very important Committees—the Health and Social Care Committee and the Liaison Committee. She speaks with considerable authority and gravitas by virtue of those roles and the reputation she has garnered. I do not want to pick an argument with the Leader of the House—he and I get on extremely well—but points have been made and the hon. Lady has underlined them. If she is dissatisfied, my advice to her is the advice I regularly give to Members wanting to know how they can take a matter forward—the word begins with “p” and ends in “t. My advice is: persist, persist, persist. There is nothing to prevent her from returning to the matter when we come back after the conference recess. On the Conservative Benches, the right hon. Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis), who is not in this place—I believe he is chairing various Committees this afternoon or attending Committee meetings—taught me decades ago that in politics quantity, persistence and, above all, repetition are at least as important as the quality of your argument. It is not good enough to have a good point and make it once—you have to keep going. If I may say so, at the risk of causing some disquiet on grounds of courtesies, I would suggest to the hon. Lady that she should follow the Churchill adage in pursuit of her cause: KBO—keep buggering on—at all times.
Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab/Co-op)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I, of course, associate myself with all the remarks we have heard about your stepping down. I shall not embarrass you by throwing more compliments at you. May I reinforce the point that my hon. Friend the Member for Bristol West (Thangam Debbonaire) and the Chair of the Select Committee, the hon. Member for Totnes (Dr Wollaston, have made? Last week, the Leader of the House was disgraceful and irresponsible in his comments about Dr Nicholl, and he should come to this Chamber to apologise from the Dispatch Box. That would be the courteous thing to do. More importantly, do you agree that if the Government are confident that they have a system to ensure our constituents and patients will get timely access to medicines, they should publish the analysis now, so that we can scrutinise it in this House of Commons in the time we have left?
Mr Speaker
I feel sure that we will return to both issues erelong, if the hon. Gentleman’s legendary indefatigability does not desert him in the weeks and months ahead—it will not, and therefore we will hear more on those subjects.
Tulip Siddiq (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab)
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Most Members have served under you for a lot longer than I have, but it would be remiss of me not to thank you now for supporting me at a time when my life was in danger. I will not go into the details, but I wanted to thank you for providing me with a lot of protection during a very dark hour in my life. While we are talking about life and death, I also want to thank you for supporting my constituent Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe by giving her case a lot of priority in the House, by granting urgent questions and allowing debates to come forward. Most importantly, you went to see Richard Ratcliffe when he was on hunger strike outside the Iranian embassy, and you also saved his life at the time. Throughout your career you have looked after Parliament and democracy, but along the way you have also saved lots of lives, which people might not know about.
Mr Speaker
I appreciate what the hon. Lady has said. I had not met Richard Ratcliffe before. Visiting him and spending a little time with him was an honour, as anyone who has met him will know. He is a quite remarkable human being. The sooner that Nazanin is freed so that she can be reunited with her daughter, husband and wider family, so much the better. It is intolerable beyond words that she has been denied her freedom by an act of dictatorial barbarity. We will go on and on about this for as long as it takes for humanity to prevail over barbarism. It would be good if this message was repeated much more widely, and not just in this place by conscientious politicians but in parts of the media that, frankly, are not terribly interested—it is about time, if they have any sort of moral compass, that they took an interest.
Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green and Bow) (Lab)
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. May I thank you for all that you have done to give us the opportunity to hold to account not only our own Government but other Governments, in respect to human rights violations and standing up for democracy? One example is when you agreed, at the request of the then Leader of the House and mother of the House, my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman), to host the Women MPs of the World conference in this House. We heard incredibly moving contributions from women who have risked their lives and lost family members in order to stand up as parliamentarians in their countries. The power of this House to do good, and not only in this country but around the world, remains undimmed, despite and notwithstanding our current difficulties. It is important that we remember that this House, at its best, is a source of inspiration around the world, and that is in no small part thanks to all that you have done. Thank you, Mr Speaker. We will miss you, and we wish you the warmest regards for the future.
Mr Speaker
I think that the right hon. and learned Member for Camberwell and Peckham (Ms Harman) has done huge and invaluable work on this front. She knows the issues and she feels them. She is, of course, as the hon. Lady knows, a stellar progressive change maker, and she has charted that course since she entered the House on 28 October 1982—she came into the House as a very young woman indeed, and she will mark 37 years in the House next month. If I know the right hon. and learned Lady, she will keep pursuing these issues, in whatever capacity, because they reflect her humanity and her attachment to principle, the rights of the underdog and the cause of equality. She, like the hon. Lady, came into politics for all the right reasons.
Mr Speaker
I know that the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Jack Dromey) will be very proud of what I have just said about his wife, and he is looking even happier than he otherwise would. I will come to him, but it would be a pity to squander him at too early a stage of our proceedings when we have only been going for an hour and a quarter or so, so I will come to him momentarily.
Caroline Lucas
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. Thank you for breaking one of your own rules—perhaps not a written one—as I have only just come into the Chamber, as you noticed. I want to apologise and explain that I was off the parliamentary estate. I had not known that you were about to make a statement, but as soon as I heard, I came back as fast as I could.
I want to thank you very seriously for your incredibly strong sense of fairness. As an MP from a party of just one in this place, it is very easy to feel somewhat marginalised from time to time, and I have so much gratitude for you that you have always included the Green party, recognising that I may be only one in here, but I represent a party out there. I thank you for your incredibly strong sense of fairness and justice and thank you for your reforming zeal in this place. We still have a long way to go, but thanks to you, we are a long way down that path.
Mr Speaker
The hon. Lady may recall that she once asked me if it would be all right if she included on the dust jacket of a book she was about to publish a tribute that I had paid her. I said to her that I was more than delighted for her to use that tribute on the dust jacket. My rationale was very simple: I had said what I said in public. I said it because I meant it, and I meant it so I said it, and, having meant it and said it, I was more than happy for it to be reproduced. I rather trust that that will continue to be at the hon. Lady’s pleasure. She is a superb parliamentarian and I think that that is recognised across the House. Without a vast infrastructure to support her, she is indefatigable, irrepressible and astonishing in her productivity and in the sheer range of her political interests. She is a fine parliamentarian. Also, because she is the only member of her party at the moment in this House, she is in the happy position of being leader and Chief Whip of her own party and, I think, of invariably agreeing with herself.
I thank colleagues. I know that we have taken a long time, but finally, we have time—frankly, we would have more time if we were not disappearing for a rather excessive period—for Jack Dromey.
Jack Dromey
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. May I echo the tributes that have been paid to you? You are one of history’s finest Speakers with a lasting legacy, and dare I say that, in addition to everything else that has been said, you are one plain, decent man of immense integrity?
I rise on another matter: the truly right hon. Member for Meriden (Dame Caroline Spelman) is leaving this House, because she has suffered shameful harassment and intimidation, including threats against her personal safety and the safety of her staff. Yet, Mr Speaker, there seems to be in this House those who are oblivious to the consequences of their actions. They use language that scars the public discourse—toxic talk of “traitors”, “collaborators”, “conspirators” and “surrender”—that demeans democracy, that fans the flames of hate and hate crime and that puts the public and Members of this House at risk. Women in particular often suffer shameful treatment. Is it in order in our great Parliament for language—hateful language—ever to be used that can then have tragic consequences, as recent history has told us?
Mr Speaker
There is a fine balance that has to be observed. Free speech is important, and one does not want to suppress the right of Members to hold and express, with considerable force and sometimes ill judgment, opinions very sincerely believed. But each and every one of us has in this place to weigh his or her words and to understand that we are in leadership positions. Words count. Words matter. Words make a difference. Words can cause great personal hurt and also be the trigger for actions by others.
I have become increasingly conscious in recent times—from Members on both sides of the House—of the escalation in hostile communications to Members and sometimes to their families. I underline that we have to call out unacceptable behaviour, including the issue of language that can induce threats or that constitutes a threat in its own right. We have to recognise also that there are some people who are so deprived of a moral compass that they think that, because they believe a particular thing strongly about a Member, that somehow justifies them subjecting that Member and his or her family to vituperation, abuse, intimidation or worse. It does not. It cannot. It will not.
I remember being shocked when the Leader of the House of Commons was faced by aggressive demonstrations outside his home, with people saying to his family, “A lot of people disapprove of your dad.” That could have been deeply frightening to family members and young children. Other Members, on both sides of the House, have also highlighted their experiences or the experiences of their family, or of their constituency or parliamentary staff; and up with this we cannot put. We simply have to say that it is wrong as a matter of principle and that if we need to do more and better, including the investment of greater resources and an improved mindset within the police service and the House authorities, we will do that. I hope that the hon. Member for Birmingham, Erdington (Jack Dromey) will forgive me if I say that I have done my best but not enough and that more will need to be done in the period ahead. Some of the responsibility for leadership on that front will lie with the next Speaker.
It would be a good thing also if those who constantly prate about their rights to free speech—to publish or be damned, and say exactly what they think—were to ask themselves, “Is what we are about to produce likely to spark intimidation, harassment or violence?” and if those who put up pictures of parliamentarians on the front pages as though they are somehow public enemies because they have dared to hold and express a view that differs from that of the newspaper concerned started to realise just how desperately dangerous that is and to exercise a modicum of responsibility. Those people have got to learn to operate at the level of events. Thank you, colleagues.
Royal Assent
Mr Speaker
I have to notify the House, in accordance with the Royal Assent Act 1967, that Her Majesty has signified her Royal Assent to the following Acts:
Kew Gardens (Leases) Act 2019
European Union (Withdrawal) (No. 2) Act 2019.