Prorogation (Disclosure of Communications)

Ian C. Lucas Excerpts

Monday 9th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Ian C. Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

This motion is about trust. We should understand the people we are dealing with.

As recently as July 2019, the Electoral Commission published detailed evidence upon which it based its finding that Vote Leave committed electoral offences in the immediate lead-up to the 2016 referendum. In March 2019, Vote Leave itself admitted to breaking the electoral law. Electoral law is there to safeguard democracy. Vote Leave’s offences are set out in detail in the July 2019 Electoral Commission findings, which explain that Vote Leave conspired, quite deliberately, to break the referendum spending limits by channelling money to the Canadian company AggregateIQ through an alternative funding stream. Dominic Cummings, working for Vote Leave at the time, explained in evidence disclosed by the Electoral Commission that

“there is another organisation that could spend your money. Would you be willing to spend the 100k to some social media ninjas who could usefully spend it…in the final crucial 5 days. Obviously it would be entirely legal.”

As we now know from the Electoral Commission—and accepted by Vote Leave—it was entirely illegal. Dominic Cummings said that this spending was “crucial.”

The Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster knew of these payments. In an interview with Dermot Murnaghan of Sky News, he said that he knew of these illegal payments, but not until after the referendum had taken place. On 5 August this year, following his appointment as the Minister responsible for electoral reform, I wrote to him asking when he knew of the illegal payments, which I believe to be a matter of crucial public interest. He has not replied.

Dominic Cummings has refused to give evidence to the Select Committee on Digital, Culture, Media and Sport, frustrating its inquiry, and has been found to be in contempt of Parliament. When he was appointed as the Prime Minister’s adviser, I wrote to the Prime Minister, asking him to instruct Dominic Cummings to give evidence to the Committee. The Prime Minister has refused to do this. These are the people who are making these decisions, and we cannot trust them to make the right ones. I therefore support the motion.

[Dr Rosena Allin-Khan (Tooting) (Lab)]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Joanna Cherry]

rose—

[Ian C. Lucas]

rose—

[Michael Gove]

No, no—absolutely not. [Interruption.] No—no, thank you.

What is being asked of this House is more than just the publication of advice: private communications of a variety of public servants are about to be published if this Humble Address is published. My right hon. and learned Friend did not ask specifically in this Humble Address—

[Michael Gove]

No. [Interruption.] No, thank you.

He did not—[Interruption.] I am not scared of the truth—Alex Salmond was scared of the truth, which is why he spent my mum and dad’s money to hide the truth.

[Ian C. Lucas]

rose—

[Michael Gove]

No, I will not give way.

If the Humble Address had been shaped in such a way as to say that official advice was requested, the Government would have sought to collaborate that—co-operate, I should say—with my right hon. and learned Friend. But this is a trawl—a fishing expedition in which every single communication from public servants is being requested if it has anything to do in any way with Prorogation. If there are officials or special advisers who are communicating with one another about personal matters, then that would be within the scope of this Humble Address. It is unprecedented. It takes a coach and horses through our data protection legislation. It is questionable in terms of the article 8 rights that individuals have under the European convention on human rights, and it would, for the first time, say—

[Ian C. Lucas]

Give way!

[Michael Gove]

No, no.

It would, for the first time, say that the House of Commons, by a simple majority vote, can say that any individual’s communications should be rendered transparent. Do Members realise what they are doing? No criminal offence is alleged. The sole purpose of this is to determine what may or may not have been the private opinion of civil servants and special advisers. The idea that, in order to discern exactly what they thought, we will trample over data protection law, ECHR rights and the principle of safe space is an unprecedented example of those who claim to revere—

[Christian Matheson]

rose—

[Ian C. Lucas]

rose—

[Chuka Umunna (Streatham) (LD)]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Gove]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I shall not take any interventions because it is important that I make progress.

I want to underline that these propositions are being put forward by people who say—and I believe them—that they take the rule of law seriously, but in their desire to rifle through the private correspondence of individuals, they set aside legal precedent, set aside the good workings of government, and set aside the rights of individuals.

Let me turn briefly to the particular part—

[Ian C. Lucas]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

I hope it is a point of order, not a point of frustration.

[Ian C. Lucas]

It is a point of order. I wrote to the Secretary of State on 5 August asking him a specific question—when he knew about the illegal payments of Vote Leave. He has not answered my letter, and he refuses to take an intervention. I have raised it in this debate again. How will I get a straight answer, on trust, from the Secretary of State?

[Mr Speaker]

Persist, man! Persist by asking further questions or sending follow-up letters—keep buggering on at all times.