Prime Minister's Update

Anna Soubry Excerpts

Wednesday 25th September 2019 Commons Chamber

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)]

Having read yesterday’s judgment by the learned judges in a unanimous verdict of the highest court in the land—and I congratulate all those who brought the action to defend this sovereign Parliament—I see that, on two important matters, the Government clearly did not defend or supply evidence. That is why the learned judges came to the conclusions they did. The evidence of Sir John Major was that, normally, a Government would prorogue for some five days. That evidence was not challenged by this Prime Minister and Government. They offered no evidence on why they sought a Prorogation of five weeks. That led the learned judges, at paragraph 56—I am pleased to see that the Prime Minister is making a note; I hope he will go and read the judgment and will not be honing his pole dancing skills instead—to write:

“This was not a normal prorogation in the run-up to a Queen’s Speech. It prevented Parliament from carrying out its constitutional role for five out of…eight weeks”.

At paragraph 61—[Interruption.] They do not want to hear it, but they will hear it, because the learned judges unanimously concluded that there was not

“any reason—let alone a good reason—to advise Her Majesty to prorogue Parliament for five weeks”.

I came here today not just to represent my constituents but hoping that the Prime Minister would show humility in the face of the condemnation in this judgment. Will he apologise, if not to this place then to the country, and has he apologised to Her Majesty the Queen?

[The Prime Minister]

As the right hon. Lady can imagine, I will not comment on my conversations with Her Majesty. I am afraid she is sadly in error in her history. To my memory, John Major prorogued Parliament for 18 days before he even had an election, and all we were going to lose was four or five sitting days over the party conference period. She will have ample opportunity, after the European Union summit on 17 and 18 October, to debate Brexit again, as is her privilege, her prerogative and indeed her pleasure, and it was always intended that she should.

--- Later in debate ---

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

If the points of order, consistent with the earlier approach, arise specifically from and relate to the matters with which we have just been dealing, I will take them. [Interruption.] Prime Minister, I think it would be a courtesy to stay for the point of order—a point of order that relates to the matter with which we have just been dealing. [Interruption.] Go and sit down. [Interruption.] Well, I asked the Prime Minister if he would be willing to stay, but he does not wish to do so. So be it. The point of order from Mr John McDonnell will be heard.

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his point of order. I did not say to the Prime Minister that the point of order related to his conduct or behaviour; I did not know what the point of order was going to be. I said to the Prime Minister that the point of order related to the matters with which we had just been dealing; in other words, in keeping with the approach that I adopted in respect of points of order following earlier statements—points of order that came from hon. or right hon. Members on both sides of the House—I was happy to take them after the statements to which they related. I suggested that the Prime Minister might wish to stay. He indicated initially that he was minded to do so, but he then decided that he wished to leave the Chamber. He has been here since 6.30; he was here for three hours and 11 minutes, and he has chosen to leave.

What I would like to say to the shadow Chancellor and to other colleagues is that I have been in the Chair since 11.30 and will remain for the remainder of the proceedings. Therefore, I have inevitably heard everything that has been said on this and other matters, and I think the fairest thing I can say is that I have heard the Prime Minister say explicitly that we will always obey the law, we will abide by the law and we will adhere to the law. He has said that. Equally, I did hear the answer that he gave earlier. I think his words related to the submission of a request for an extension, and he indicated that he would not be minded to do so. I heard the full question and I heard the full answer, and I think the right and proper thing to say, at this point, is that colleagues—hon. and right hon. Members—should study the record and form their own assessment of it. I have, of course, myself said, as anybody would expect any citizen to say, any parliamentarian to say or any Speaker to say, that adherence to the law must, of course, be non-negotiable.

I do not think that I need to add to that tonight. Let us reflect on these matters, let us remain calm and let us assess the record. Just as I said, good-naturedly, I think, to the Prime Minister some minutes ago in a slightly different context that repetition was not a novel phenomenon in the House of Commons—never has been, is not and will not be—there will be further opportunities for Members to raise these matters, including this very particular point, in subsequent days. This Chair will always facilitate the fullest and most unsparing scrutiny of the Executive branch, because that is the responsibility of the Speaker—not to be a craven lickspittle of the Executive branch, but to facilitate the fullest and most unsparing scrutiny of it. That is my job, and come hell or high water I will continue to discharge it. Non-negotiable—end of subject.

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (IGC)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I, too, am very sad that the Prime Minister has left, because I had hoped to raise this point of order to give him the opportunity to perhaps correct the record and reflect on his language and conduct in this House tonight. It gives me no pleasure to say that I am 62, I have been around and I have seen quite a lot of stuff in my life. It takes a lot to reduce this hon. Member to tears. I am not alone tonight; there are others who I believe have left the estate, such has been their distress.

I merely say to everybody in this place, but most notably to those who hold the highest of offices in this the most peculiar and extraordinary of political times, that the language that is used is incredibly important. Whatever side of the debate people are on, we have evidence that when they use words such as “surrender” or “capitulation”, or others use the words “traitor” and “treason”, there is a direct consequence. It means my mother receives a threat to her safety. It means my partner receives a death threat. It means that people go to prison or receive suspended sentences—unreported by a media that have lost the plot—because of the death threats made to hon. Members whose only crime and offence is to say what they believe in, to be true to their principles and to try to serve this country and their constituents. The consequences are that many will not want to return to this place, and a younger generation will not want to serve this country in the future.

[Mr Speaker]

I have heard what the right hon. Lady has said, and I treat it with the greatest possible respect. I am well aware of, and personally familiar with, the fact of the abuse and threats to which she has been subject over a long period. I deprecate in the strongest and most uncompromising terms those threats to her and to other Members. I have received many myself as a matter of fact—I am not complaining about that; I am simply saying that I empathise with her because I have been on the receiving end of many such communications myself. Each and every one of us has a responsibility to weigh his or her words and to try to make the arguments in which we believe with care and, if possible, with eloquence, and even, from time to time, with humour, but in terms that demonstrate respect for those who hold a point of view that differs from our own. I have a feeling that this is a point to which Members will return in days to come.

I cannot overstate the frequency with which I have been informed over the past year or so by Members on both sides of the House, and on both sides of the Brexit argument, of the fact and persistence of threats that they have received. I have previously said very publicly that, in relation to media outlets which have prominently depicted Members as though they were public enemies for differing from the vantage point of those media outlets, that cannot be right. That cannot be right. I have no desire to escalate the tensions and every desire to try to use words that are pacifying rather than inflammatory.

In relation to the Leader of the House, let me say that I am well aware that offensive abuse has been directed at members of his family, and that has been intimidating, and that is wrong. It is not possibly wrong or conceivably wrong or in a certain situation wrong. That is wrong—end of subject—and so is the abuse and threats that other Members have received. The reality of the matter—and I say this with all the force and insistence at my command without fear of contradiction—is that female Members and Members of our ethnic minority communities have been disproportionately subject to that abuse and those threats. It requires nobody to seek to contradict it, because that is the fact. I know it, and the right hon. Lady knows it. We have to rise up against it and to resist it, and everybody has a part to play, including the holders of very high offices.