Phone Hacking

John Bercow Excerpts

Wednesday 13th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. A very large number of colleagues wish to catch my eye, so I appeal to each Back Bencher to ask a single short supplementary question, and to the Prime Minister for his characteristically economical replies.

[Mr John Whittingdale (Maldon) (Con)]

I welcome the Prime Minister’s statement, and thank him for consulting me, and my two fellow Select Committee Chairmen, about the terms of reference last night. Although there is no doubt that we need a stronger system of regulation of the press in this country, will the Prime Minister bear in mind that although it was newspapers that were responsible for these wholly unacceptable and often illegal activities, it was also newspapers that exposed them? I hope he will agree that a free press is a fundamental cornerstone of a free society, and that we must do nothing to jeopardise that.

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I would like to accommodate a few more colleagues, but to do so I require brevity. I call Mr William Cash.

[Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con)]

Thank you for that, Mr Speaker.

The Prime Minister has referred repeatedly to media organisations and media executives and he has noted the fact that the word “media” covers a wide range. Does he agree that to be fully comprehensive the terms of reference should also be extended to sound and visual media? It is not impossible, given the uncertainty and unexpected turns of events, that that side of things might be involved, too.

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[The Prime Minister]

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. The part of the inquiry which is, for instance, investigating allegations of police corruption or investigating the hacking at the News of the World, must wait for the police investigations to be carried out, for prosecutions to be carried out and, as I understand it, for any appeals to be lodged. That is one for the reasons for having one inquiry with two parts, rather than two inquiries, otherwise the one doing that part would take a very long time indeed before it got going.

[Mr Speaker]

I thank the Prime Minister and colleagues for their succinctness, which enabled all 78 Back Benchers who wanted to contribute to do so.

Public Bodies Bill [Lords]

John Bercow Excerpts

Tuesday 12th July 2011 Commons Chamber

Second Reading

[Mr Speaker]

I inform the House that the amendment has been selected. To move Second Reading, I call the extremely patient Minister, Mr Francis Maude.

Open Public Services White Paper

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 11th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Letwin]

The right hon. Gentleman is too much of an expert to need me to tell him this, but I will tell him because he asks for it. We have, of course, established a two-level system. For most planning decisions, we hope that the neighbourhood will take charge by engaging in neighbourhood planning. We believe that the incentives that we have built into the financial system—including the ability to get a meaningful proportion of the community infrastructure levy paid to the neighbourhood if it has more housing and development in its area—will lead neighbourhoods on the whole to prefer development. The presumption of sustainable development means that their neighbourhood plans will have to include development of an appropriate kind in order to pass muster. There will be an assessment of local housing need that contributes to that, which plans will have to observe.

However, nobody is going to pretend in our Government, any more than in the right hon. Gentleman’s Government, that any neighbourhood will welcome a nuclear power station just next to it or a railway line running straight through it. Of course there will be objections in those cases, which is why we have maintained and democratised the very system that he and his colleagues set up—because they, too, operated a two-level system—in order to accelerate planning applications for major pieces of national infrastructure. There is no disagreement between us and the right hon. Gentleman on that, and there is no reason for him to invent one.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. As befits a distinguished former philosophy don, the Minister much enjoys conducting a Socratic dialogue with the House, and we all invariably feel enriched by it, but in the interests of time, we should be grateful for the abridged version.

[Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)]

I very much welcome what we have heard about employee involvement in the running of organisations, and mutuality is a subject that my party has advocated for a long time. I also welcome the greater role for parish councils in local services. I am concerned, however, about local assets being run by community groups and the accountability of that mechanism. Will the Minister ensure that, as these proposals move forward, accountability lies at the heart of any change?

Oral Answers to Questions

John Bercow Excerpts

Tuesday 5th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab)]

Does the Deputy Prime Minister not understand that even those of us who support Lords reform cannot help wondering whether he has masochistic tendencies in trying to win this fight with one hand tied behind his back, and with the Prime Minister simply holding his coat and egging him on from the sidelines? Does he believe that he has the overwhelming support of his coalition partners to steer the Bill through both Houses? If not, is he not just wasting—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We are extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman.

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I remind the hon. Gentleman that all parties went to the country in last year’s general election with a clear manifesto commitment to reform the House of Lords. As I have said, it does not strike most people as a radical suggestion that the democratic principle that operates in Parliaments around the world should gently and incrementally be applied to the other place.

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[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I am not sure what case the hon. Lady is referring to—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. First, the House must show some courtesy to the Deputy Prime Minister as he responds to questions. Secondly, I want to hear from Mr Gordon Henderson.

[Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Con)]

T5. Does my right hon. Friend the Deputy Prime Minister understand the resentment felt by many taxpayers in my constituency when they see their taxes being used to help to provide a range of free services in Scotland that are not enjoyed by the English? When will the Government take action to bring that unfair subsidy to an end?

European Council

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 27th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There is extensive interest in this statement, but there is another statement to follow, and a heavily subscribed debate thereafter. What is required, I say hopefully, is brevity.

[Mr William Cash (Stone) (Con)]

Will the Prime Minister be good enough to put on record his appreciation of the support and encouragement of the British people and Members of Parliament in securing the terms from the negotiations on the Greek bail-out, and will he now take that further and do whatever is necessary to take the lead in both the United Kingdom and Europe to get us out of the mess the existing treaties got us into?

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[Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)]

With the Greece situation showing what happens if a country does not control its deficit, does my right hon. Friend the Prime Minister agree that the actions of Labour’s paymasters this Thursday show that they and the Opposition are more interested in dogmatic cobblers than harsh reality?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I have explained the point on innumerable occasions to Members that questions are to be about the policy of the Government, not that of the Opposition, so we will now move on.

[Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab)]

The Bank for International Settlements, in its annual report published yesterday, identifies two solutions to the Greek sovereign debt crisis: either mutualising Greece’s debts through further eurozone bail-outs, or restructuring them. Does the Prime Minister agree with that analysis, and if so, which option does he favour?

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[The Prime Minister]

I feel that a very big part of my life is spent trying to give pleasure to Mrs Bone. On this occasion, I can go only so far.

[Mr Speaker]

We note the admirable self-restraint that the Prime Minister has demonstrated and we are grateful for it.

House of Lords Reform

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 27th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Simon Hart (Carmarthen West and South Pembrokeshire) (Con)]

As is pretty obvious to people who know me well, I am not an academic, a lawyer or a constitutional expert, which puts me in a minority of probably one for the purposes of this evening. However, I am a pragmatist from west Wales, and in that spirit I want to offer something constructive to the Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Forest of Dean (Mr Harper), of whom I have grown rather fond during the past 14 months as we have discussed one constitutional matter after another. Some of my best friends are estate agents and car salesmen, and much as I know them well, like them and enjoy their company— indeed, I was one at one stage—it does not necessarily mean that at the end of the day I want to buy what they have on offer. I fear, and I hope my hon. Friend will forgive me for saying so, that this moment is no different.

Given the limited time that we have, I thought it would be helpful to summarise the debate. I have sat through 50-odd contributions and for the sake of something different to say, I jotted down what I thought the debate had shown. A snapshot of the views expressed across the Chamber reveals that this is not about Lords reform but about parliamentary reform, abolition of the Lords and the relationship between the Lords and this place, between us and the devolved Assemblies and between us and voters. Those are serious matters. This is not some throw-away matter that we can loosely describe to the press as a process of kicking out a few old duffers. This deserves to be taken more seriously.

Another point that has been raised is that there would be long-term effects. There are long-term questions that need to be answered and arguments that have not been properly addressed, and I hope that the Minister will have the opportunity to reply to them. What failure in the upper House are we seeking to remedy? How will elected Members succeed where unelected ones have apparently failed? What improvements are we hoping to achieve? We seem fixated on how the House of Lords, or whatever it will be called, will look, rather than what it should do. That is the nub of the matter, and I must say that this afternoon’s debate has simply confirmed my fears in that respect.

On the other hand, the Government have attempted to make the case that the Lords “lacks sufficient democratic authority”. Mind you, so do many other institutions in which the nation happily puts its trust. That is an absolutely fair accusation if that is what we seek. There have been enough contributions from around the Chamber and the other place to suggest that that is not what we seek, so we must be very careful not to justify these measures purely on the basis of that argument.

There appears to be no public appetite for this, and people have dismissed public appetite as somehow irrelevant. They say, “It may be boring, but it’s important.” Well, many things we do here are boring and important, and some are boring and unimportant, but this is actually boring and very important. I wonder what my friends in The Eagle in Narberth would say tonight if they flicked over from the tennis and saw me standing here. When they are trying to cling on to their public service jobs, or hold on to their house, or get an operation in their local hospital, they will think—I apologise for looking at the camera if this is the case—that this is yet another example of some self-indulgent activity that contributes to people’s disinterest in and indifference to politicians of whatever nature, either elected in this House or unelected in the other.

There seems to be almost no parliamentary support for the proposals, judging by the statistics in the House of Lords and in this place. There appears to be some coalition interest, and we can only speculate why that might be. There are profound long-term constitutional consequences that need further examination. We are told that there would be significant costs, which one estimate puts in the region of £433 million. I hope that the Minister will reflect on the comments that have been made this afternoon and follow the recommendation that many Members have made, particularly my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth West (Conor Burns), which is to proceed with great caution, go for a free vote and remember that it was not long ago that we suggested to the Labour Government that there was a fine line between constitutional reform, which we all support, and constitutional vandalism, which we accused them of achieving. We should bear in mind the wonderful words of the Prime Minister, whom I also commend, who rightly said that this was a fourth-term issue.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Mr Jesse Norman, to speak until 9.36 pm.

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I call Mr Chris Bryant.

Oral Answers to Questions

John Bercow Excerpts

Wednesday 15th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Letwin]

The hon. Gentleman’s question reminds me of Maynard Keynes’s dictum when asked about the IMF and the World Bank. I think he said that the World Bank was a kind of fund, and the IMF was a kind of bank. There are often these oddities in the naming of things. Shall we just call it the BSB and know what it does, rather than worry about the name?

[Mr Speaker]

We are now better informed.

[Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)]

8. What recent representations he has received on the provisions of the Public Bodies Bill.

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[Matthew Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con)]

T2. Does my right hon. Friend think that responsible Members of this House, in all parts of the Chamber, should condemn irresponsible strike action that puts children’s education at risk and diminishes public services? Does the silence—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We are grateful. The hon. Gentleman has finished.

[Mr Maude]

It would be good to hear Opposition Front Benchers joining us in urging the trade unions to stay with the discussions, which still have a great distance to go, to secure what will still be among the very best pension schemes available. If schools close down, it is not just children’s education that will be disrupted, but the livelihoods of millions of parents who depend on schools being open so that they can go to work to earn the money to pay the taxes to support public sector pensions. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There is far too much noise in the Chamber and too many private conversations taking place. I want to hear the questions and the Minister’s answers.

[Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab)]

T5. By 2014, civil society will be losing £2.9 billion a year in revenue—the same as the amount forgone in corporation tax by big companies in the United Kingdom. Why are the Government being so soft on big business and so tough on charities and the voluntary sector?

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[Mr Maude]

We know that there is growing enthusiasm for public sector workers to come together to form employee-led co-operatives or mutuals to carry out and deliver public services. All the evidence shows that they deliver huge increases in productivity and better public services at lower cost, and I hope that the hon. Lady will give her full support—

[Mr Speaker]

I am extremely obliged to the Minister, but the House must now hear Mr Greg Hands.

[Greg Hands (Chelsea and Fulham) (Con)]

T9. To what extent does the Minister expect any PCS strike action to have an impact on our vital public services?

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[The Prime Minister]

I have to tell the right hon. Gentleman—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The question has been asked; the answer will be heard.

[The Prime Minister]

The right hon. Gentleman is wrong on the specific point. First of all, as I have said, our definition of “terminally ill” is exactly the same as the one used by the last Government. Crucially, anyone out of work who has longer to live will be given the extra support that comes from employment and support allowance. Irrespective of a person’s income or assets, that will last for 12 months. The right hon. Gentleman is wrong, and he should admit that he is wrong. On a means-tested basis, this additional support can last indefinitely. That is the truth; he should check his facts before he comes to the House and chickens out of welfare reform.

[The Prime Minister]

Let me try to explain it to the right hon. Gentleman again, as I do not think he has got the point—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I think it is a disgrace that Members on both sides of the House are shouting their heads off when matters of the most serious concern are being debated. I repeat what I have said before: the public despise this sort of behaviour. Let us have a bit of order.

[The Prime Minister]

I am grateful for that, Mr Speaker. This is important, and I want to try to explain to the right hon. Gentleman why I think he has got it wrong, and why I think what we are proposing is right. Let me explain the definition of who is terminally ill; these are horrible things to have to discuss, but let me explain. It is—[Interruption.] Hold on a second. The definition is the same one—as I say, it is six months. Anyone out of work who lives longer than that will be given the extra support that comes from employment and support allowance. That is irrespective of a person’s income or their assets and it will last for 12 months, not the six months that the Leader of the Opposition claimed. On a means-tested basis, this additional support can last indefinitely. So as I say, it is the same test as under the last Government. It has been put in place fairly, we have listened very carefully to Macmillan Cancer Support, and we have also made sure that someone is reviewing all the medical tests that take place under this system. I know that the right hon. Gentleman wants to try to create a distraction from the fact that he will not support welfare reform, but I have answered his question, so he should now answer mine: why won’t you back the Bill?

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[Mike Gapes (Ilford South) (Lab/Co-op)]

Q11. The United States Secretary of Defence, Robert Gates, has said that the NATO operation in Libya has exposed serious capability gaps. The First Sea Lord, Admiral—[Interruption.] The First Sea Lord, Admiral Mark Stanhope, has said that the operations in Libya cannot be sustained for longer than three months without serious cuts elsewhere. Given those problems—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. No help from Government Back Benchers is required. A quick sentence from the hon. Gentleman.

[Mike Gapes]

Is it not time that the Prime Minister reopened the defence review and did yet another U-turn on his failed policies?

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[Mr Speaker]

I am extremely grateful to the Prime Minister. I call Jack Dromey.

[Jack Dromey (Birmingham, Erdington) (Lab)]

Q12. In this carers week, when we celebrate the contribution of Birmingham’s care assistants and the loving families who look after their loved ones, will the Prime Minister join me in condemning Birmingham city council for cutting care for 4,100 of the most vulnerable in our city, branded unlawful by the High Court? What does he intend to do to ensure that never again will Birmingham city council fail the elderly and the disabled?

Oral Answers to Questions

John Bercow Excerpts

Tuesday 24th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend is right: the issue is applicable not just to this place, but to councils up and down the country. There are clearly barriers impeding the participation of people with disabilities in politics at all levels. I pay tribute to those who were involved in the Speaker’s Conference on Parliamentary Representation, which was started some years ago and identified this as a problem. In our access to elected office strategy, which we will announce, we will address how that might affect local councils as well as this place.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Lindsay Roy. He is not here, so I call Mr Andrew Love.

[Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op)]

3. What representations he has received on his plans for the future composition of the House of Lords.

[The Deputy Prime Minister (Mr Nick Clegg)]

I have received many representations expressing a wide variety of views—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I believe the Deputy Prime Minister is seeking a grouping.

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

Yes, forgive me. [Hon. Members: “Oh!”] I would like to group questions 3, 4, 5, 11 and 12. A major issue—my omission to group the questions. That is how over-excited Members on the Opposition Benches get.

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[Mr David Winnick (Walsall North) (Lab)]

It is understanable that there is tension and disagreement between the two coalition parties on this issue, and perhaps on other matters, but it was reported last week that during a recent meeting of Tory MPs one Member described the Liberal Democrats as “yellow” followed by a second word beginning with “b” then “a” and ending in “s”. Was the Deputy Prime Minister as shocked as I was by such behaviour?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I gently say to the Deputy Prime Minister and to the House that I do not think he is responsible for what is said at meetings of Conservative Members of Parliament?

[Mr Andrew Turner (Isle of Wight) (Con)]

Should the right hon. Gentleman not drop this unpopular policy, which does not resonate with the majority of the public, and concentrate instead on finding a solution to the problem of the West Lothian question?

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[Lilian Greenwood]

I thank the Minister for that answer, but I am disappointed by the lack of urgency with which his Government are addressing the matter. I was shocked to find that, as a result of the Government’s initiative in relation to voting on 5 May this year, only 40 of the thousands of service personnel deployed in Afghanistan voted in secret by post in the referendum, compared with the 217 who voted by post in the general election last year. At a public meeting in October 2008—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We must have a one-second question; there is a lot to get through. Quick question, and we will carry on.

[Lilian Greenwood]

The Deputy Prime Minister assured my constituent Devina Worsley that he and the Armed Forces Minister would take action to address the issue. Is that another broken promise, or is he just not up to the job?

[Mr Harper]

I thought that we were going to get something good then, but that was clearly rehearsed. The hon. Lady will know from my detailed answer that the number of people who voted in the specific initiative that we set up, building on the one that the Labour party undertook for the general election, does not take into account all personnel in Afghanistan, some of whom will have registered separately. She will know also that my right hon. Friend the Deputy Prime Minister has made it clear that the Government plan to lengthen the campaign period for general elections so that overseas voters, including our service personnel, have more opportunity to vote. That is a very clear promise—

[Mr Speaker]

We are immensely grateful to the Minister.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

When the Minister talks to the Ministry of Defence about voting, will he try to ensure that not just the way our servicemen and women vote but the way they are required to register is as simple as possible?.

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[The Deputy Prime Minister]

The principles of the White Paper were less bureaucracy, more patient-centred health, greater control for people who know patients best so that they can decide where money circulates in the system, greater accountability, and less centralisation. First, those are worthwhile reforms. Secondly, they build on many of the reforms that the Labour party introduced when in government. If the hon. Gentleman and his colleagues were more honest, they would back our attempt to listen to the British people and reform the NHS so that it is safeguarded for future generations.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am sure no one is suggesting that any right hon. or hon. Member would be dishonest in this Chamber. [Interruption.] Order. I take that as read.

[Charlie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)]

T4. Did not the Government inherite an unreformed, unwieldy, unaccountable health service that was partly privatised, and are not these reforms necessary to secure the future of the health service for the next generation?

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[Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

I support the Government’s drive for more prosecutions of rape. Will the Solicitor-General support my move to allocate a centre to North Yorkshire and York to help victims of rape? Were we to have such a centre—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am not sure that this is a priority of the Crown Prosecution Service, but the Solicitor-General can respond to the first part of the question briefly.

[The Solicitor-General]

I share my hon. Friend’s concern about the way in which rape cases are currently prosecuted. As was stated in this House the other day, we want to bear down on the attrition rate. The conviction rate bears comparison with other aspects of the criminal system, but we want to ensure that rape victims can report their allegations to the police and that they are treated with care and sensitivity right the way through to what we hope is a conviction.

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[The Attorney-General]

I have no doubt at all that it will be made first on the Floor of the House, but I entirely disagree with the hon. Lady’s premises. The position is very straightforward. The SFO is doing a good job, but I think everybody agrees that we need to see ways of improving the fight against economic crime. To take the hon. Lady’s point to its logical conclusion, there should be no discussion in government or anywhere else about such structures because doing so might raise some uncertainty. I simply do not share that view. I am confident that we will come out with the correct outcomes and that they will enhance our capacity to deal with economic crime generally. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I was trying to indicate gently that the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull East (Karl Turner) must not leave before the question has been concluded. I am sure that he is enjoying the exchanges.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

In parts of the United Kingdom, there is widespread organised criminal activity. During the comprehensive spending review, what assurance can the Minister give us that those involved will not be able to gain yet more from their illegal and ill-gotten deeds and activities?

Oral Answers to Questions

John Bercow Excerpts

Wednesday 18th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr Paterson]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the question. I have been travelling to Northern Ireland for nearly four years and wanting to turn the whole of Northern Ireland into an enterprise zone, making it an attractive place for investment and building on all the advantages that it now has. On my hon. Friend’s specific question, enterprise zones as described in the Budget are now in devolved hands and I hope the devolved Ministers grasp the opportunity with both hands. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There are far too many noisy private conversations taking place in the Chamber. The House must hear Mr Sammy Wilson.

[Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)]

Recently the Irish Republic abolished air passenger duty, which has put at risk cross-Atlantic flights from Northern Ireland and had an impact on the tourist and investment strategy of the Executive. Ironically, that was done as a result of loans facilitated by the UK Government. Will the Secretary of State ensure that in the renegotiation of those loans or any further loans, conditions are attached that stop the Irish Republic gaining such competitive advantage?

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[The Prime Minister]

Talking of broken promises, I remember the Leader of the Opposition saying at his party conference, about Ken Clarke:

“I’m not going to say he’s soft on crime.”

Well, that pledge did not last very long. One of these days the Labour party is going to realise that opposition is about more than just jumping on a bandwagon and picking up an issue; it is about putting forward a serious alternative and making some serious points. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I call Sir Alan Haselhurst.

[Sir Alan Haselhurst (Saffron Walden) (Con)]

This question is by way of contrast, Mr Speaker. In harmony with the priority being given by the Government to strengthening relations with the Commonwealth, does my right hon. Friend attach importance to the particular role of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association, and will he do his best to find a way of marking that when the centennial conference of the CPA takes place in London in July?

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[The Prime Minister]

I can see that the hon. Gentleman enjoyed that—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I want to hear the Prime Minister’s reply.

[The Prime Minister]

I think that the most revealing statistics today are the unemployment figures, which show that employment in our country is up by 118,000, that unemployment is down by 36,000, and that youth unemployment fell by 30,000. Those are the statistics of what is happening in the real world, rather than in the dinosaur land that the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr Skinner) still inhabits.

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[Mr Andrew Tyrie (Chichester) (Con)]

rose—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I cannot understand why the House does not wish to hear Mr Andrew Tyrie.

[Mr Tyrie]

I was rather impressed by that last answer, but I will draw the Prime Minister on to something else. Yesterday the Government announced plans to reform the second Chamber. Can he tell the House whether he will use all means necessary, including the Parliament Acts, to protect the coalition’s legislative programme?

House of Lords Reform (Draft Bill)

John Bercow Excerpts

Tuesday 17th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. A great many hon. Members are seeking to catch my eye. Brevity is therefore of the essence.

[Mrs Eleanor Laing (Epping Forest) (Con)]

Does the Deputy Prime Minister appreciate that there will be a warm welcome for the fact that he is introducing a draft Bill? We look forward to its being thoroughly scrutinised by the Joint Committee. Will he please explain how the balance of power between the two Houses of Parliament will change when an elected second Chamber competes with this House and its Members for democratic legitimacy?

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am keen to accommodate remaining colleagues who wish to speak, so I reiterate the merits of economy and self-restraint.

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend was a Member of the European Parliament, which moved from being an appointed body to an elected one and, over time, has demanded more and more powers, reflecting its democratic mandate. He is very consistent in saying that that will not happen in the case of a reformed House of Lords, but how can he build in some assurances to that effect?