Justice and Security Bill [Lords]

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 4th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Sadiq Khan (Tooting) (Lab)]

I beg to move amendment 26, page 4, line 39, leave out ‘two’ and insert ‘three’.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Government amendments 27 and 42.

Amendment 28, page 5, line 4, after ‘proceedings)’, insert

‘and such disclosure would be damaging to the interests of national security’.

Government amendments 43, 44 and 29.

Amendment 30, page 5, line 36, leave out from ‘that’ to end of line 37 and insert

‘the degree of harm to the interests of national security if the material is disclosed would be likely to outweigh the public interest in the fair and open administration of justice.’.

Amendment 31, page 5, line 37, at end insert—

‘(6A) The third condition is that a fair determination of the proceedings is not possible by any other means.’.

Amendment 32, page 5, line 38, leave out ‘two’ and insert ‘three’.

Amendment 33, page 5, line 40, leave out from ‘proceedings’ to end of line 41.

Government amendments 46 and 47

Amendment 34, page 5, line 41, at end insert—

‘(7A) Before making a declaration under subsection (2), the court must consider whether a claim for public interest immunity could have been made in relation to the material.’.

Amendment 70, page 6, line 22, at end insert—

‘or proceedings at an inquest conducted by the Chief Coroner or a High Court judge.’.

New clause 2—Proceedings in which section 6 proceedings are not applicable—

‘(1) Section 6 proceedings will not be applicable in proceedings where the outcome could result in, contribute to, or impede efforts to challenge the—

(a) imprisonment; or

(b) continued detention

of a party, whether in the UK or overseas.

(2) Section 6 proceedings will not be applicable in proceedings—

(a) relating to conduct which may amount to commission of the following domestic and international wrongs—

(i) genocide;

(ii) murder;

(iii) torture;

(iv) slavery;

(v) cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment;

(vi) child abuse; or

(vii) other matters that the court regards as breaches of the Geneva Conventions.

(b) where there is a real risk that non-disclosure of that material or information may result in the wrongful imprisonment of an individual in the UK or overseas or the death of an individual overseas.’.

Amendment 1, page 4, line 29, leave out clause 6.

Amendment 2, page 6, line 25, leave out clause 7.

Amendment 3, page 7, line 4, leave out clause 8.

Amendment 4, page 8, line 1, leave out clause 9.

Amendment 5, page 8, line 25, leave out clause 10.

Amendment 6, page 8, line 30, leave out clause 11.

Amendment 7, page 9, line 16, leave out clause 12.

Amendment 22, page 10, line 4, leave out clause 13.

Amendment 23, page 11, line 17, leave out clause 14.

New clause 7—Notifying the media of CMP applications and media rights to make submissions—

‘(1) Rules of court relating to section 6 proceedings must make provision—

(a) requiring the court concerned to notify relevant representatives of the media of proceedings in which an application for a declaration under section 6 has been made;

(b) providing for any person notified under paragraph (a) to intervene in the proceedings;

(c) providing for a stay or sist of relevant civil proceedings to enable anyone notified under paragraph (a) to consider whether to intervene in the proceedings;

(d) enabling any party to the proceedings or any intervener to apply to the court concerned for a determination of whether there continues to be justification for not giving full particulars of the reasons for decisions in the proceedings; and

(e) requiring the court concerned, on an application under paragraph (d), to publish such of the reasons for decision as the court determines can no longer be justifiably withheld.’.

New clause 8—Ensuring closed judgments can become open when secrecy is no longer required—

‘(1) Rules of court relating to sections 6 and 7 proceedings must make provision—

(a) enabling any party to the proceedings or any intervener to apply to the court concerned for a determination of whether there continues to be justification for not giving full particulars of the reasons for decisions in the proceedings; and

(b) requiring the court concerned, on an application under paragraph (a), to publish such of the reasons for decision as the court determines can no longer be justifiably withheld;

(c) ensuring applications under paragraph (a) are not granted more than once in any 12 month period;

(d) enabling the court to deny a paragraph (a) application if the court views it as an abuse of process; and

(e) ensuring that all closed judgments undergo a paragraph (a) determination every five years, even in the absence of an application under paragraph (a).’.

Amendment 35, in clause 7, page 6, line 29, leave out from ‘that’ to end of line 30 and insert—

‘any of the conditions in subsections (4) to (6A) of section 6 is no longer met.’.

Amendment 36, page 6, line 33, leave out from ‘that’ to end of line 34 and insert

‘any of the conditions in subsections (4) to (6A) of section 6 is no longer met.’.

Amendment 37, page 6, line 41, leave out from ‘whether’ to second ‘the’ in line 43 and insert

‘any of the conditions in subsections (4) to (6A) of section 6 is no longer met.’.

Government amendment 48.

Amendment 38, in clause 8, page 7, line 18, at end add

‘and that damage outweighs the public interest in the fair and open administration of justice’.

Amendment 39, page 7, line 20, leave out ‘consider requiring’ and insert ‘require’.

Amendment 40, page 7, line 22, at end insert

‘sufficient to enable the party to whom the summary is provided to give effective instructions on the undisclosed material to their legal representatives and special advocates.’.

Government amendments 50 and 65.

[Sadiq Khan]

Let me begin by making it absolutely clear to the House where the Opposition stand on the issue of closed material procedures in civil proceedings. We accept that there may be rare examples where it is preferable for a CMP to be used because there is no other way a particular case can be heard. Our position has been influenced to a large extent by the views of the independent reviewer of terrorism legislation, Mr David Anderson QC. He has written two memorandums on the proposals in the Bill and has given evidence to the Joint Committee on Human Rights. He has said that

“there is a small but indeterminate category of national security-related claims, both for judicial review of executive decisions and for civil damages, in respect of which it is preferable that the option of a CMP—for all its inadequacies—should exist.”

We are persuaded.

There may be rare examples where it is preferable for a CMP to be used because existing tools used by the court—for example, public interest immunity, redaction, confidentiality rings and in-camera hearings—may not be sufficient to allow sensitive intelligence material to be disclosed in court, meaning there may be no other way a case can be heard. However, we do not give unqualified support and shortly I will deal with some of the conditions we consider must be attached to the extension of CMPs, conditions which David Anderson said were important.

Oral Answers to Questions

John Bercow Excerpts

Wednesday 27th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Ann Clwyd]

No. 12, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

The right hon. Lady’s question has been grouped. Her moment is now and we should hear from her.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Crabb]

I welcome that question from my hon. Friend. I will next be in the area this weekend—he and I have the pleasure and privilege of representing the most beautiful part of the United Kingdom. I very much welcome the new development he has announced; it will be a major boost to tourism not just in Pembrokeshire but across Wales.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Mrs Helen Goodman. No? Well, everybody is here. We are ready. Let’s get going. Questions to the Prime Minister.

The Prime Minister was asked—

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[Edward Miliband]

With the greatest respect to the New Statesman, the Prime Minister is scraping the barrel by quoting that. All we have heard today—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Mr Zahawi, you are an excitable fellow; this is not very statesmanlike. Calm yourself; you will get better over time.

[Edward Miliband]

All we have heard today is a Prime Minister who refuses to accept that he has failed on the central test he set himself. He has failed to meet that first test. It is not just our credit rating that has been downgraded. We have a downgraded Government, a downgraded Chancellor and a downgraded Prime Minister.

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[The Prime Minister]

I thank my hon. Friend for his hard work and for the ingenious way he managed to get that question in order—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) should not keep yelling from a sedentary position “Sarah Palin”. She at least is not a candidate in the Eastleigh by-election.

[The Prime Minister]

If you have any luck in getting the hon. Member for Rhondda to shut up, Mr Speaker, do let us know how it is done.

[Mr Speaker]

The Prime Minister shouldn’t bother phoning me; I’ll phone him in those circumstances.

Oral Answers to Questions

John Bercow Excerpts

Tuesday 12th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am sorry to disappoint colleagues. I would like to continue but we must move on.

The Attorney-General was asked—

European Council

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 11th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Prime Minister]

I have to admit that it is confusing, because of course Labour MEPs voted against a freeze in the EU budget when they were given the opportunity. What we need to hear from the Opposition is that they will show some leadership and tell their MEPs that this is a good deal for Britain and that they will back it. Let me give the Leader of the Opposition another chance. Will his MEPs be backing this budget: yes or no? [Interruption.] That was a no. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Mr Balls, you are barking in the most bellicose fashion at the Government Benches. I know that whenever you do anything you do not it quietly, but a degree of restraint would be appreciated.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

I am sure my constituents in Kettering would want me to congratulate the Prime Minister warmly on negotiating a real-terms cut in the EU budget. Will he take this opportunity to name and shame those of our European partners who most vociferously resisted attempts to cut the administrative budget?

--- Later in debate ---

[The Prime Minister]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

I say to the hon. Member for Northampton North (Michael Ellis) that the Prime Minister is responsible for many things, but he is not responsible for the policy positions of the shadow Chancellor and he is certainly not responsible for what quotes are given or attributed to the shadow Chancellor in the Yorkshire Post. However, we will hear a sentence from the Prime Minister.

[The Prime Minister]

All I can do, Mr Speaker, is reflect on your ruling that the shadow Chancellor is indeed barking—and for clarification, I do not mean barking as in Barking and Dagenham; I mean barking as in woof.

Oral Answers to Questions

John Bercow Excerpts

Wednesday 6th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Maude]

It ill behoves the hon. Gentleman to lecture this Government about debt and deficit, given the state of the public finances when his Government left office; there was reckless incontinence. The National Citizen Service, which we expect to expand, provides an incredibly valuable experience for growing numbers of young people, and I would be grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s support for it.

[Mr Speaker]

There is plenty of scope for an all-day debate, I think. I call Mr Peter Bone.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

T2. To the coalition Government’s great credit, four months ago they started to tackle the scandal of civil servants being given paid time off to do trade union work. The TaxPayers Alliance has worked out that that costs £90 million a year. How many savings so far have the Government made on that £90 million?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Maude]

The hon. Lady will know that we have in place an assisted digital strategy, so that as we roll out our digital by default approach, which will provide services on a much more convenient basis for the citizen at much lower cost to the taxpayer, there will always be available a place where people can go so that the digital transaction can be carried out with the support of someone to help the citizen. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. It would be helpful if the House listened to the questions and, indeed, to Ministers’ answers.

[Mr Henry Bellingham (North West Norfolk) (Con)]

T7. Further to the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Epping Forest (Mrs Laing) about small and medium-sized enterprise procurement, does the Minister agree that it is not just a question of giving contracts to small firms but that it is essential that the public sector pays its bills on time?

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[Mr Speaker]

Order. The House must calm down. We have a lot of questions to get through and I intend to get through them. Let us have a bit of order for Mr John Leech.

[Mr Leech]

Local councils have faced as tough a budget settlement as most other Departments. Does the Prime Minister share my dismay that Manchester city council is choosing to close libraries, leisure centres and the Mersey Valley Countryside Warden Service, while at the same time it was happy to spend hundreds of thousands of pounds on an Alicia Keys concert and leave £100 million in reserves sitting in the bank?

Mid Staffordshire NHS Foundation Trust (Inquiry)

John Bercow Excerpts

Wednesday 6th February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. These are extremely serious matters being treated with great knowledge and sensitivity. I want to accommodate everybody who is interested in the subject, but we would now benefit from slightly shorter questions and I need therefore look no further than to a specialist in the genre, Gisela Stuart.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

Further to the Prime Minister’s previous answer, what precise steps will he take to force trusts not to accept early resignations or moving on? What will he do to stop that recycling, which has been going on for ever?

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[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend, who has great experience of being at the sharp end of inspections in schools, speaks with great knowledge and expertise. Because patients in hospitals often do not want to say anything bad about the hospital while they are in it, it is important for them that the friends and family test is carried out once they get home. I have listened carefully to his point about carers and others.

[Mr Speaker]

I am most grateful to the Prime Minister and to colleagues. I think that everything has now been said and, indeed, that it has been said by everybody.

Commercial Lobbyists (Registration and Code of Conduct) Bill

John Bercow Excerpts

Friday 1st February 2013 Commons Chamber

[Thomas Docherty]

The issue is about reasonable balance. Most planning and public policy processes take several months. If the register were updated every quarter, people could see the information in retrospect and say to the developer, non-governmental organisation or commercial company, “Hang on a second—you told me this person was an independent facilitator. It turns out they are an employee of the company.”

Let me be clear. What I have described was not a one-off event, but what Mr Cummings was doing with all his controversial proposals; he would bring in the so-called independent facilitator who supposedly had no links to him or his business. He portrayed her as an academic who specialised in bringing together opposing parties. However, the hon. Gentleman has raised a valid point.

Let me give the final part of my example, because I have detained the House for far longer than I had envisaged. With the local community council, I was mounting a campaign against the size of the development. I have worked in property and believe we need more houses, but the sheer size of this development was the issue. My campaign, in July, about nine months before the general election, was quite effective; the local council was coming under pressure to mitigate, at least, the size of the development. One Saturday evening at about half-past 6, I received a text message. I had known Mr Cummings so I had his name in my phone. I am aware that I am not allowed under “Erskine May” to use unparliamentary language even in quotations, so I will not push my luck on this. Those who are vaguely familiar with sectarianism will know of a thing called the “Famine Song”, which is sung by the more illiterate of those who claim to support Rangers football club and says some fairly nasty things about Catholics, suggesting in particular that they may wish to “go home”. I cannot go into the content of the lyrics of the song without breaching “Erskine May”, but it is hugely offensive.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I say to the hon. Gentleman that I think that a charitable person would say that this anecdote is tangentially related to the Bill and an uncharitable person would say that its relationship to the Bill is non-existent? In his presenting this anecdote, I am inclined to err on the side of charity, and I feel sure that he will do so most pithily.

[Thomas Docherty]

I am most grateful, Mr Speaker. You are, of course, one of the most charitable people one has the privilege of serving with. My apologies for having forgotten to wish you a very happy 50th birthday a couple of weeks ago. Last time I was here on a Friday with a private Member’s Bill, it was your birthday, and it was remiss of me not to take the opportunity to place that on the record—I apologise.

Succession to the Crown Bill

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 28th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

Amendment 1, clause 2, page 1, line 10, at end insert—

‘(2A) A child of a marriage, which at the time of the marriage disqualified one of their parents from succeeding to the Crown or possessing it, who is at the time of the coming into force of this section of the Roman Catholic faith shall not as a result be for ever incapable of succeeding to the Crown.’.

Amendment 2, clause 2, page 1, line 10, at end insert—

‘(2B) A child of a marriage, which takes place after the coming into force of this section between a Roman Catholic and a person in line of succession to the Crown, who is of the Roman Catholic faith shall not as a result be for ever incapable of succeeding to the Crown.’.

[Jacob Rees-Mogg]

It occurs to me that the Leader of the House must have a sense of humour. Today, as I am sure you know, Mr Speaker, is the anniversary of the death of his late Majesty King Henry VIII, so it seems only appropriate that we should be discussing the Succession to the Crown Bill on such an anniversary. After all, King Henry introduced three succession to the Crown Bills, and some of the problems we are dealing with today originate with his reign. I have proposed two further amendments, which you have graciously said, Mr Speaker, we can deal with in the course of our debate on the new clause, and I shall come to them secondarily.

New clause 1 is the crucial part of what I am proposing. It is a development within the context of the Bill to attend not just to one discrimination but to a second that is inherent within the current rules governing the succession. From time immemorial, the succession has gone to the eldest male heir, but since the Act of Settlement 1701 it has had to go to a Protestant. There has been a religious discrimination as well as discrimination on the grounds of sex. My new clause seeks to amend that to allow for anybody of any faith to succeed to the Crown while making provision for the established Church.

Many countries in the world have a Crown that is only temporal; they do not have a Crown that is spiritual as well. The mediaevalists debated at great length where power should rest in those two spheres, and I do not wish to rehearse the schoolmen’s arguments. There are, however, two distinct and separate powers and authorities: the temporal one that deals with the laws we live by and how we should lead our lives in respect of society; and the spiritual one that looks to the higher plane and the greater authority that comes with religious belief and religious conviction.

In our country, those two powers are merged in the Crown. The Crown is both the spiritual head of the Church and the temporal head of the nation for one part—and one part only—of the Crown. On Tuesday last week, on Second Reading and indeed in Committee, we debated whether that was right and how it applied in a more modern age. It is worth looking, as we did last week, at some of the detail. Because the Queen is Supreme Governor of the Church of England, she is or has under her an established Church in Scotland, but she is not formally head of it. She puts in a Lord High Commissioner to represent her at meetings of the General Assembly of the Church of Scotland, but she is not the Supreme Governor of the established Church in Scotland in the way she is Supreme Governor of the Church of England. There is no established Church in Wales; there is no established Church in Northern Ireland. As far as I am aware, there is no established Church in Antigua and Barbuda, in Australia, the Bahamas, Barbados, Belize, Canada, Grenada, Jamaica, New Zealand, Papua New Guinea, St Christopher-Nevis, St Lucia, St Vincent and the Grenadines, the Solomon islands, Tuvalu or in Her Majesty’s other realms and territories. When we deal with one discrimination but not the other, therefore, we leave a discrimination that applies only to a very small part of the totality of the Crown.

Voting Age

John Bercow Excerpts

Thursday 24th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Williams]

I advise the hon. Gentleman not to pick an argument with somebody who was a tax consultant before he became an MP. Such a person—Daniel Radcliffe or whoever else he was thinking of—would probably have that income held in trust by their parents until they reached the age of 16, or whatever the trust says, and the tax allowance goes with the parents. It used to be a classic bit of tax avoidance.

There are plenty of different ages where there are different rights and responsibilities, from the right to be tried in court for a criminal act performed from the age 12 onwards to receiving different amounts of minimum wage up until the age of 21. I think the most compelling comparison of all is the right to marry, which will be extended when the Marriage (Same Sex Couples) Bill is introduced, and the age of consent to sex. Surely the act of bringing another human being into the world is much more fundamental than the opportunity to vote. If we think that young people are capable of being good parents at the ages of 16 and 17, surely they can have the right to go and vote.

Giving young people the right to vote would also rebalance the changing demographics of the franchise. We all know the power of the grey vote and the higher tendency of pensioners to turn out and vote. The Inter- generational Foundation has recently published an interesting report—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We are very interested in the output of the Intergenerational Foundation, about which the hon. Gentleman will seek to advise us in a moment. We are listening to his speech with great interest and he has generously taken a large number of interventions, but I hope I can predict with confidence that he is approaching his concluding remarks, as a large number of other Members wish to speak and I am keen to ensure that they do.

[Stephen Williams]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. With that advice—not only to me, but to other colleagues perhaps not to seek to intervene on me—I will be able to get through the rest of my speech quite quickly.

The Intergenerational Foundation has published a report on the rise of what it calls the gerontocracy—to summarise, the fact that the will of the old is trumping the needs of the young. We have had all sorts of debates recently—about the winter fuel allowance and so on—that are characteristic of that. It is a statistical fact—there are many statistical facts in that report—that there are more 63-year-olds who are able to vote than 18-year-olds. However, this is not simply about the absolute numbers of older people who are able to vote. We also know that their tendency to turn out and vote is higher, while 18 to 24-year-olds under the current franchise have the lowest tendency to turn out.

That takes me back to an earlier intervention. One of the reasons why that cohort has a low tendency to turn out is that most people in that group miss the opportunity to vote when they turn 18. It happened to me—I was 18 in 1984, and so was not able to vote for the first time until the 1987 general election. Now that we have guaranteed five-year Parliaments, someone who turned 18 in, say, mid-May 2010 will be 23 before they can vote in the next general election. Lowering the franchise from 18 to 16 will bring down slightly the average age at which people first cast their vote, from their early 20s to about 19 perhaps. The idea that swathes of 16 year-olds will be deciding the election is therefore simply not true.

Lowering the voting age to 16 also makes it more likely that people will vote while they are in the stable environment of home and education. Voting is habitual. We know from various studies that if someone votes for the first time when they are just 18, they pick up the pattern of voting for later life. Lowering the voting age also makes it easier to register—a point made earlier. In Northern Ireland, where individual voter registration is ahead of England and Wales, 16 and 17-year-olds are now registered in school. Registering 16-year-olds would be quite easy to do and add 1.5 million to the franchise—about 2,500 voters in each English constituency and different amounts in Wales, Scotland and Northern Ireland.

If my 2005 Bill had been accepted, the UK would have been a trailblazer, but not now. Austria, which has been mentioned, extended the vote in 2007. In German local elections, the Bürgermeister of Hannover can be elected by 16-year-olds, but those wishing to vote for the mayor of Bristol, which is twinned with Hannover, have to wait until they are 18. Brazil—the fourth largest democracy in the world—gives the right to vote to 16-year-olds and Argentina extended that right just two months ago. However, it is here in the British Isles that the most fundamental change has taken place: 16 and 17-year-olds are now able to vote in the Isle of Man, Jersey and Guernsey, but it is in the devolved nations that the most profound change has taken place. On 4 July the Welsh Assembly voted to reduce the voting age to 16, and on 6 November the Northern Ireland Assembly did the same—but the power lies with us. Most profoundly of all, in the Scottish referendum, which I am sure we will hear about shortly, 16 and 17-year-olds will be given the right to cast their votes, in what I think will be a much more important referendum than the one we heard about yesterday—one that decides the future of the United Kingdom. If Scottish 16 and 17-year-olds can vote on the future of the UK, surely it would be untenable to withhold that right from their English, Welsh and Northern Ireland counterparts.

The genie is now out of the bottle. An old political maxim is “Trust the people”. We trust young people to be parents, we trust them to defend our country and we trust them with the future of the United Kingdom. Surely it is now time for us to trust 16 and 17-year-olds with the right to elect us to this House.

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

I call Natascha Engel.

[Philip Davies]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

I am calling the hon. Lady because only recently have Members on the Government Benches started standing, which is perfectly within their prerogative. I am saving them up.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. It may help the House if I explain that the debate is scheduled to end at approximately 2.15 pm, and that the Chair intends the Front-Bench winding-up speeches to begin at approximately 1.45 pm. As the House knows, there is no formal time limit on Back-Bench speeches, but a rough calculation suggests that a six-minute speech by each Member would enable the 12 Members who are seeking to catch my eye to succeed in doing so, and would allow all to contribute.

Succession to the Crown Bill (Allocation of Time)

John Bercow Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Before I call the Minister to move the motion, I should inform the House that the amendments in the name of the hon. Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg) have been selected.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jacob Rees-Mogg (North East Somerset) (Con)]

I beg to move amendment (a), in paragraph 1(3), after ‘Reading’, insert

‘and on any Instruction to the Committee on the Bill that has been selected by the Speaker, which shall be debated with the Second Reading,’.

[Mr Speaker]

With this it will be convenient to consider amendment (b), leave out paragraph 2(b).

[Jacob Rees-Mogg]

We are discussing what may be the most important constitutional issue to which the House has ever turned its mind, namely, who shall be our sovereign. Who shall be eligible to receive perhaps the greatest office in the world? Who shall be the King or Queen of England?

When the Bill that became the Act of Settlement was debated, it spent six days in Committee. The allocation of time motion allows us two days in which to treat this Bill as if it were anti-terrorism legislation, which seems a particularly inopportune comparison given that it relates to matters that could not be further removed from that type of activity. As far as I am aware, the only constitutional Bill that has been treated to such a small amount of time—or, rather, an even smaller amount—is the Bill that became His Majesty’s Declaration of Abdication Act 1936, which, I believe, completed its passage in the House of Commons in under a minute; but that, too, is not a happy precedent.

--- Later in debate ---

[Keith Vaz]

But I am a Catholic—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I think it was the right hon. Member for Mid Sussex (Nicholas Soames)—if I am wrong, so be it—who muttered from a sedentary position that it was just as well that the right hon. Member for Leicester East (Keith Vaz) had no such intention. I ought also to point out that it is just as well for Mrs Maria Vaz.

[Keith Vaz]

It is indeed, Mr Speaker, and I am most grateful to you for reminding me of my wife’s name.

The interest I should declare is that I too am a Catholic, although, unlike the hon. Member for North East Somerset, I am not from one of the grand Catholic houses. An even greater Catholic than the hon. Gentleman—if there is such a person—the Archbishop of Westminster, has written to the Government to confirm that the Catholic Church supports what the Government are doing, or at the very least does not object to the proposals.

I believe that we need to get on with this, partly because of the happy royal event that will take place some time in July, and also because I introduced my ten-minute rule Bill on the subject on 18 January 2011, following a number of right hon. and hon. Members who in preceding centuries have produced ten-minute rule Bills—if such a device existed before the last century—to try to do exactly the same thing: to modernise the monarchy and provide for equality. I think the previous Member to do that was the former Member for Oxford West and Abingdon, before he lost his seat. Such legislation has a long history and the Government are right to fast-track the Bill and provide, in my view, generous time for it to be discussed. I know that the hon. Member for North East Somerset said that anti-terrorism legislation takes longer, but terrorism order debates that I have attended have had much less time allocated on the Floor of the House.

The first argument for getting on with this is the royal event that will take place shortly. Of course, the Commonwealth agreed the measure on 28 October 2011 and, as the Prime Minister has said, it is retrospective, but it would be absurd if the royal child was born before Parliament deliberated changing the law. It is much better that we should do it now.

I pay tribute to the Deputy Prime Minister for the amount of time he has spent on this issue. It is clearly not one of the Government’s great priorities, but he has spent a lot of face time in meetings with me and with many others, and spoken to Heads of Government throughout the Commonwealth. I am grateful to him for what he has done. Let us get on with it, let us have the debate and let us pass this legislation.

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[Sir Gerald Howarth]

Forgive me, but my hon. Friend cannot say that the issue does not affect the established Church of England and that the Bill ends discrimination; it is discriminatory by definition that the Church of England should be the established Church in these islands. What my—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I am sure that it is inadvertent and a consequence of the interest in the subject, but interventions are now eliding into the subject matter of the Second Reading debate. The matter with which we are concerned now is purely the allocation of time motion. The Minister is offering her view in response to the contributions to that debate. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will be patient and volunteer his further thoughts ere long.

[Miss Smith]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I certainly look forward to far more debate on those matters on Second Reading.

It does not need me to stand here and say that the changes do not affect the established Church because the established Church says that for itself. The Church of England has said:

“The present prohibition…is not necessary to support the requirement that the Sovereign join in communion with the Church of England. Its proposed removal is a welcome symbolic and practical measure consistent with respect for the principle of religious liberty.”

I know that the House will find that welcome.