Oral Answers to Questions

John Bercow Excerpts

Tuesday 4th June 2013 Commons Chamber

The Deputy Prime Minister was asked—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Before I call the first question to the Deputy Prime Minister, hon. and right hon. Members may have noted that there are only four substantive questions to the Attorney-General on today’s Order Paper; six were withdrawn yesterday. It may be helpful for the House to be aware that if we exhaust questions to the Attorney-General before 12.30, we will revert to topical questions to the Deputy Prime Minister.

[Katy Clark (North Ayrshire and Arran) (Lab)]

1. When he plans to bring forward legislative proposals on the regulation of lobbyists.

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[Mr Douglas Carswell (Clacton) (Con)]

In order to tackle some of these concerns, the suggestion has been made that we should have a right of recall. Will the Minister confirm that a right of recall would include a recall ballot, so that instead of leaving it to a committee of grandees in Westminster to decide an MP’s future, constituents would have the chance for a final say?

[Mr Speaker]

That is very wide, but we will have a brief reply from the Minister and then move on.

[Miss Smith]

My hon. Friend and I have exchanged views on this subject a number of times, and I look forward to doing so again. As to what we are discussing today, Mr Speaker, you and he will know that there was a draft Bill. We continue to work through its detail and I look forward to bringing forward the further details in due course.

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[The Deputy Prime Minister]

Obviously it is important for all proceedings in the House to be conducted as transparently as possible, and for the motives of Members to be made obvious to their constituents and to the public.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. It is always helpful when Members look at the question on the Order Paper and ask a coherent supplementary that relates to it rather than to something else. That should be a helpful part of the learning curve for the hon. Member for Weaver Vale (Graham Evans).

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

14. The Deputy Prime Minister may have missed this while dealing with all his other duties yesterday, but his noble colleague Lord Oakeshott suggested that the House of Lords was full up. Does he agree?

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[Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con)]

T5. The coalition was formed to deal with the disastrous economic legacy left to us by the last Government. Was the Deputy Prime Minister won over by the proposals made by the shadow Chancellor yesterday, which—as always from Labour—added up to only one thing: borrow, borrow, borrow?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We will not bother with that one. The problem with it is that it was about the policy of the Opposition. Questions must be about the policy of the Government; that is the point of Question Time. The clue is in the title.

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[The Solicitor-General]

Yes, it is in here somewhere.

None. [Laughter.] No—there is a bit more: the Crown Prosecution Service is not involved in the use of community resolutions, which are out-of-court disposals that enable a police officer to deal proportionately with appropriate offences in a timely and transparent manner.

[Mr Speaker]

I must say that the initial answer was the shortest that I have ever heard, especially from a lawyer.

[Kerry McCarthy]

There is real concern that the orders are being used increasingly to resolve—or supposedly resolve—domestic violence incidents. In 2012, nearly 2,500 of the orders were issued rather than cases being put before the CPS for possible prosecution. Does the Minister share my concern that the orders may be being used as an easy disposal, rather than taking domestic violence seriously?

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We must call it a day there and move on.

EU Council and Woolwich

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 3rd June 2013 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Before I call hon. Members to ask further questions arising from the Prime Minister’s statement, I remind the House that, as the Prime Minister pointed out, two individuals have been charged in connection with the death of Drummer Lee Rigby. I emphasise to colleagues that the matter is therefore sub judice. Although it is clear that the public interest means that this is a matter that Parliament must discuss, and in respect of which I should indeed exercise my discretion, I am sure that hon. and right hon. Members will take care to frame their remarks appropriately.

[Sir Peter Tapsell (Louth and Horncastle) (Con)]

On Syria, may I put it to my right hon. Friend, first, that this is fundamentally a religious war between the Shi’a and the Sunni, which has raged within Islam for 1,300 years? Secondly, the Alawites, who are a branch of the Shi’a, will fight to the end, because they believe—and so does the large Christian minority in Syria—that they will be massacred if the Sunni overthrow the present regime. Thirdly, Russia will never allow the regime to be overthrown, because its overthrow would mean a humiliating defeat for President Putin, who made his reputation by crushing the Sunni rebellion in Chechnya.

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

I call Dr Thérèse Coffey. [Interruption.] The hon. Lady did wish to catch my eye but—[Interruption.] She has been a bit slow, so we will get to her in a moment. I therefore call Mr James Duddridge.

[James Duddridge (Rochford and Southend East) (Con)]

Thank you for calling me, Mr Speaker; I knew I would be lucky.

Let me take the Prime Minister back to the issues of tax transparency. Will he please update the House on the progress being made on the extractive industries transparency initiative?

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[The Prime Minister]

To give credit to Nick Robinson—which is not something that I always want to do—he immediately blogged on his website and said that that was a mistaken phrase and that he should not have used it. He recognised that immediately, which was right. What the hon. Gentleman says about this being an opportunity for all communities to open up and understand more about each other is, I am sure, right, but I want to ensure that the taskforce also considers the specific actions that can be taken in respect of organisations that are getting it wrong.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Dr Thérèse Coffey.

[Hon. Members]

Hear, hear.

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am keen to accommodate remaining colleagues but there is some considerable pressure on time. Therefore I am looking for a sharp mind and pithy expression, and I need look no further than Dr Julian Huppert.

[Dr Julian Huppert (Cambridge) (LD)]

The Prime Minister is right to say that we should not be cowed by terror and to reject knee-jerk reactions. Will he therefore join me in criticising those who seek to make use of the brutal murder of Drummer Rigby as a reason to advocate the full powers of a snoopers charter, which would not have prevented this tragedy from happening but would treat us all as suspects?

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[The Prime Minister]

My hon. Friend raises an important point. First, we should pay tribute to British Muslims, Sikhs and Hindus who serve in our armed forces and the brave things that they do. I argue that for all institutions—the Army, just as for a political party, the judiciary or anyone else—it is not enough just to open the doors and invite people in. We need to get out into minority communities and encourage people to join up and serve. Only when people see others from their background and community serving in the Army or on these Benches in politics will they truly feel empowered to do the same. As I said, that is a very good point on which to end.

[Mr Speaker]

I thank the Prime Minister, the Leader of the Opposition and all 62 Back Benchers who took part in those exchanges.

Energy bill (Programme) (No. 2)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(9)),

That the Order of 19 December 2012 (Energy Bill (Programme)) be varied as follows:

(1) Paragraphs 4 and 5 of the Order shall be omitted.

(2) Proceedings on Consideration and Third Reading shall be concluded in two days.

(3) Proceedings on Consideration shall be taken on each of those days as shown in the following Table and in the order so shown.

(4) Each part of the proceedings shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the times specified in relation to it in the second column of the Table.

Oral Answers to Questions

John Bercow Excerpts

Wednesday 15th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Crabb]

There is a constant close dialogue between us, the Home Office and the Minister for Universities and Science about how we can attract more overseas students to the UK. I do not know what figures the hon. Member for Blaenau Gwent (Nick Smith) has seen, but if he looks at the figures for overseas students coming to Wales, he will see that there has been a 73% increase in the past five years, and those numbers are continuing to go up. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There is a large number of extremely noisy private conversations taking place, including among those on the Opposition Benches, who I am sure will now wish to hear Jessica Morden.

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

9. What assessment he has made of the effects of the Government’s welfare policies on disabled people in Wales.

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[The Deputy Prime Minister (Mr Nick Clegg)]

I have been asked to reply. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The Deputy Prime Minister must be heard—from the start of the session to the end of the session.

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

I have been asked to reply. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister is visiting the United States for meetings with President Obama, making the case for a transatlantic trade agreement between the United States and the European Union and chairing the high-level panel on development in New York today. This morning, I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further such meetings later today.

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[The Deputy Prime Minister]

As my hon. Friend knows, our commitment was for a referendum when there is a fundamental change in the relationship—[Interruption.] Read our manifesto—I have. I helped to write it, and I can guarantee that that is what it says, and we have acted on that. I have an old-fashioned view—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I do not think the Deputy Prime Minister particularly minds being shouted at, but I do not want him to be shouted at excessively. The House should hear his answer, and certainly the people of the Isle of Wight should hear his answer.

[The Deputy Prime Minister]

That is very kind of you, Mr Speaker, thank you.

I have an old-fashioned view that when a Government put forward a Queen’s Speech that has a lot of good things in it—a cap on social care costs, a decent single-tier pension for everybody and a cut in national insurance contributions for employers to create jobs—we on this side of the House should go out and promote it and not spend days bemoaning what is not in it.

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[The Deputy Prime Minister]

That man, whom I believe to be me, was stating something then that my party has restated ever since: that we should have a referendum on Europe when the rules change. We said that— [Interruption.] We said that at the time—[Interruption] We said that at the time of the Lisbon treaty and we said it in our manifesto. We even legislated on it, and we will say it again. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Mr Gray, I was thinking of calling you to ask a question, but if you continue to misbehave, I might not.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

Q8. Does the Deputy Prime Minister agree with me, the late Baroness Thatcher, senior Government members on the Business, Innovation and Skills Committee, the Liberal Democrat manifesto, the Minister in charge of the Royal Mail and his own Government, and does he still agree with himself, that the privatisation of the Royal Mail is a step too far?

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[Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD)]

Q12. In 2008 the Independent Reconfiguration Panel made a series of recommendations in response to an attempt by my local NHS trust to downgrade maternity services at Eastbourne district general hospital. The IRP recommendations were, in my view and those of eminent local clinicians, never properly introduced, which has now led to safety issues that, perversely, have enabled the trust to implement the service changes that were originally rejected by the IRP. Will the Deputy Prime Minister look at addressing that anomaly and ensure that hospitals implement IRP recommendations robustly and that that is audited, including at Eastbourne district general hospital?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There is probably scope for an Adjournment debate on the back of that, so let us have a brief answer.

Debate on the Address

John Bercow Excerpts

Wednesday 8th May 2013 Commons Chamber

[Ist Day]

[Mr Speaker]

Before I call the mover and seconder, I want to announce the proposed pattern of debate during the remaining days on the Loyal Address: Thursday 9 May—home affairs; Friday 10 May—jobs and business; Monday 13 May—health and social care; Tuesday 14 May —cost of living; Wednesday 15 May—economic growth.

Speaker’s Statement

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 15th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I would like to make a short statement about the arrangements for Lady Thatcher’s funeral on Wednesday. I have received a number of representations—direct and indirect, formal and informal—concerning how the House and Parliament as an institution might best mark this occasion. I have considered all of these, but concluded that the most appropriate means of indicating our sentiments would be for the chimes of Big Ben and the chimes of the Great Clock to be silent for the duration of the funeral proceedings. I have, therefore, made the necessary arrangements to achieve this. I believe that there can be a profound dignity and deep respect expressed in, and through, silence and I am sure that the House will agree.

[The Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General (Mr Francis Maude)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. As you know, Lady Thatcher held Parliament in great reverence in her time both in this House and in the other place. I am confident that this will be seen as a dignified and respectful gesture on the part of Parliament. I am grateful to you, Mr Speaker, and I am confident that Lady Thatcher’s family will take it very much in that spirit and be hugely appreciative of what you have decided.

[Mr Speaker]

I am extremely grateful to the right hon. Gentleman.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

Further to that point of order—

[Mr Speaker]

No, I am not taking further points of order at this stage. We have an urgent question and a statement, and there will no doubt be other points of order.

Tributes to Baroness Thatcher

John Bercow Excerpts

Wednesday 10th April 2013 Commons Chamber

[Sir Tony Baldry]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The conventions of the House in respect of those rare occasions on which the House chooses to make tributes to a person who is deceased are well established. This is not, and has never been, a general debate on the memory of the person who is deceased, but an opportunity for tributes. It is not an opportunity for hon. Members to denigrate the memory of the person .

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman will resume his seat. I am grateful to him for his—I use the term advisedly —attempted point of order. Let me be explicit for the benefit both of the hon. Gentleman and of the House. All hon. and right hon. Members take responsibility for what they say in this place. The responsibility of the Chair is to ensure that nothing unparliamentary occurs. Let me assure the hon. Gentleman, for the avoidance of doubt, that nothing unparliamentary has occurred. We are debating a motion that says that this House has considered the matter of tributes to the Baroness Thatcher. That is what we are doing, and nothing has got in the way of that.

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I do not know why Members think the hon. Lady has finished. She has finished that paragraph.

[Mrs Laing]

I was pausing for effect, Mr Speaker, but I will conclude. As a result of Margaret Thatcher’s brilliance, resolve, determination, courage and example, no woman can ever be told that she cannot rise to any challenge. Margaret Thatcher made the world a better place.

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There is no formal time limit on Back-Bench contributions today, but I gently point out to the House that no fewer than 48 right hon. and hon. Members are still seeking to catch my eye. I know that Members will wish to tailor their contributions accordingly.

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. If everyone is to get in, speeches of no more than four minutes will be required. I appeal to hon. and right hon. Members to help me to help them.

Oral Answers to Questions

John Bercow Excerpts

Tuesday 26th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Miss Smith]

I commend my hon. Friend for her work on this important matter—she has campaigned long and hard and taken the time to go into the detail. As I have said, the Government take the report extremely seriously. We believe it is a positive step forward, and I am happy to talk to all members of the Government about its merits and otherwise.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Stephen Phillips. Not here.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Does the Minister accept that constituents of mine who use the health service in England, work in the public sector in England and use public transport in England, but who are represented by me as a Welsh Member of Parliament, want a say on matters relating to England? Does she accept that there are problems, but not always solutions?

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[Miss Smith]

I do not believe that even I could persuade the McKay commission to cover that level of detail. However, as I said in answer to the previous question, the people of the UK are stronger together than they are apart. I hope the hon. Gentleman transfers that message to his constituents.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. As I think the House knows, the hon. Gentleman was practising the shoehorning technique, which was as mischievous as it was just about orderly.

[Greg Mulholland (Leeds North West) (LD)]

The biggest threat to the UK might be not the Scottish referendum next year, but the increasing sense in England that the current constitutional settlement is not a fair one. Does my hon. Friend agree that we already have two different classes of MPs, in the sense that Scottish and Welsh MPs have colleagues in the Scottish Parliament and Welsh Assembly who perform some of the role that English MPs do?

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[The Deputy Prime Minister]

As the right hon. and learned Lady knows, the reason we have developed Help to Buy—which has two components: Government equity in new build construction and mortgage assistance —is of course not to subsidise people who have no stake in this country, nor is its intention to provide subsidies for people buying second homes. It is there to restore confidence in the housing market as a whole and ensure that the construction industry is given a significant boost, so that we employ more people and give people the opportunity to own their own homes.

[Mr Speaker]

Bob Blackman. Not here. It looks as if the hon. Gentleman is quickly getting to his seat without further delay. Hurry up. Mr Bob Blackman.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

T2. Thank you, Mr Speaker. My apologies; I was held up on London transport. With the local elections coming in May, will my right hon. Friend comment on the initiatives he is taking to combat postal vote fraud and impersonation at polling stations?

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[Mr Speaker]

Mike Freer. He is definitely not here; perhaps he is stuck on London transport as well, who knows?

[Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)]

T7. Will the Deputy Prime Minister join me and the all-party group on North Korea in welcoming last week’s historic resolution by the UN Human Rights Council to establish a commission of inquiry to investigate the grave violations of human rights in North Korea? I thank our Government for their vital work on this subject, and I ask the Deputy Prime Minister to thank those many civil rights organisations, such as Christian Solidarity Worldwide, that have campaigned on this issue for many years.

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We had 23 questions in that period but we must now move on.

The Attorney-General was asked—

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[The Solicitor-General]

It is difficult to prosecute some cases. Often, it is the word of one person against the word of another. It is important in those circumstances to ensure that the victim who is the witness is properly supported. In addition, it is vital to have corroborative evidence and to use it effectively. It is sometimes said that there are a lot of incorrect allegations, but recent research by the CPS shows that there are very few cases of that sort. There has been a big improvement in the conviction rate, but we cannot be complacent. As the hon. Gentleman says, it is important to tackle this matter.

Royal Assent

[Mr Speaker]

I have to notify the House, in accordance with the Royal Assent Act 1967, that Her Majesty has signified her Royal Assent to the following Acts and Measures:

Supply and Appropriation (Anticipation and Adjustments) Act 2013

Presumption of Death Act 2013

Mobile Homes Act 2013

Antarctic Act 2013

Welfare Benefits Up-rating Act 2013

Jobseekers (Back to Work Schemes) Act 2013

Diocese in Europe Measure 2013

Clergy Discipline (Amendment) Measure 2013.

Oral Answers to Questions

John Bercow Excerpts

Wednesday 20th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Maude]

I am afraid that I did not hear a single word that the hon. Gentleman said—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. In the remaining couple of minutes, let us have a courteous audience for Mr Halfon.

[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

T6. Does my right hon. Friend agree that local trade unions are very much part of the big society? Does he support the vital work of USDAW, which is fighting for fair pay and conditions for Tesco workers whose jobs are under threat following the announcement of the closure of the Tesco depot in Harlow?

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[Mr Speaker]

Order. The hon. Lady’s question must be heard. People should not jeer before they have heard it.

[Lorely Burt]

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

We set an example to the world, and later on this month, the Prime Minister goes to Bali to co-chair the high-level panel to discuss the next set of millennium development goals. Will he use his leadership to press for a stand-alone goal on gender equality and women’s empowerment?

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[The Prime Minister]

When the top rate of tax was put up, millionaires paid £7 billion less. That is the sort of incompetence and inefficiency that the hon. Lady left the sofa of GMTV to support. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. When a question is asked, Members should not shout their heads off when the Prime Minister is giving an answer.

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

Given that SAS Sergeant Danny Nightingale has had his conviction quashed following the quashing of his military prison sentence last year, does the Prime Minister agree that it would be totally against the public interest, and against the interests of the SAS Regiment, for Sergeant Nightingale to have to face a fresh trial when others are benefiting from the weapons amnesty that was rightly introduced by the Secretary of State for Defence as a result of the Nightingale case?

Royal Charter on Press Conduct

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 18th March 2013 Commons Chamber

Application for emergency debate (Standing Order No. 24)

[Mr Speaker]

I call the Prime Minister to make an application for leave to propose a debate on a specific and important matter that should have urgent consideration under the terms of Standing Order No. 24. The right hon. Gentleman has three minutes in which to make such an application.

[The Prime Minister (Mr David Cameron)]

I seek leave to propose that the House should debate a specific and important matter that should have urgent consideration, namely the welcome publication of the draft royal charter by the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition today, and the Prime Minister’s intention to submit the charter to the Privy Council for Her Majesty’s approval at its May meeting.

What happened to the Dowlers, the McCanns, Christopher Jefferies and many other innocent people who had never sought the limelight was utterly despicable. It is right that we put in place a new system of press regulation to ensure that such appalling acts can never happen again. We should do that without further delay. The royal charter, which I would like us to take note of now, will help do exactly that.

Furthermore, the cross-party agreement that has been reached today will allow the Bills that had been blocked or amended with concepts of statutory press regulation to be unblocked, including the Defamation Bill, which makes important libel reform, and the Enterprise and Regulatory Reform Bill, which sets up the green investment bank. As a result, the Government’s legislative programme will be able to proceed. I would therefore be grateful, Mr Speaker, if you granted this application.

[Mr Speaker]

The Prime Minister asks leave to propose a debate on a specific and important matter that should have urgent consideration, namely the welcome publication of the draft royal charter by the Prime Minister, the Deputy Prime Minister and the Leader of the Opposition today, and the Prime Minister’s intention to submit the charter to the Privy Council for Her Majesty’s approval at its May meeting.

I have listened carefully to the application from the Prime Minister and am satisfied that the matter is proper to be discussed under Standing Order No. 24. Has the right hon. Gentleman the leave of the House? The Prime Minister does indeed have the leave of the House.

Application agreed to.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am sorry to do this, but it is all very well to talk about the publication of the draft charter, but it is not available in the Vote Office or in the Library. The Clerk has a copy of it, but hon. Members do not have copies of it. It is an odd way of doing business for us to debate something that we have never had an opportunity to see.

[Mr Speaker]

I say to the hon. Gentleman, whom I thank for his point of order, that my copy and that held by the Clerk came from the Vote Office. Therefore, my understanding is that copies of the document are lodged in the Vote Office, and I say that only on the basis of my experience. If copies are not so lodged, they most certainly should be. I can deal only with the exigencies of the situation as they arise. I am not knocking the hon. Gentleman; he has raised his point of order and I have sought fairly and accurately in my terms to respond to it. The responsibility now is for the House to move on to debate the matter. I call the Prime Minister to move the motion and I emphasise that the debate can last for up to three hours.

Royal Charter on Press Conduct

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 18th March 2013 Commons Chamber

[Chris Bryant]

Wales won.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) keeps chuntering from a sedentary position that Wales won. His point is now on the record. I trust that he is satisfied.

[Sir Edward Garnier]

The hon. Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies) will have to wait and see whether the Egyptians cut and paste our system.

On the point about overselling, I have a suspicion that we will not see many of these cases. The arbitration system will be free, which will increase access to it for those without means of their own, so I suspect that many self-represented people will come before it. That will place a strain on the panels deciding complaints.

Leveson recommended a ring-fenced monetary penalty system under which money recovered from malefactors would help to fund the system and the cases being brought before it. It would be interesting to find out from the Prime Minister whether a system of compensatory payments would be available to the body, or whether it would simply be a question of punishing the respondent newspaper or media organisation. If a victim of newspaper misconduct required compensation, would they have to go to the courts to settle or get an agreement from the respondent, or would the independent body be entitled to award the newspaper’s money as compensation? The latter, too, would incentivise claimants to use the system, rather than going to the expense and trouble of clogging up the courts with less important cases.

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. According to my reckoning, there are still five Members seeking to catch my eye. I am keen to accommodate them, but we have scarcely half an hour before I ask the Prime Minister to wind up the debate. I appeal to Members to help me to help them.

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[The Prime Minister]

First, let me say that this is a matter on which people should feel absolutely free to express their opinions and to vote according to their conscience. We have had a good debate and a serious debate. It comes, as a number of hon. Members have said, after decades of this issue not being properly sorted out. Tragically, it has taken a crisis in the press, a very thoughtful report by a senior judge, and then a lot of political will and political co-operation, but we can be proud of the fact that the issue is finally being sorted out, with what I believe is a practical, workable, deliverable solution.

Let me say to my hon. Friend the Member for North East Somerset (Jacob Rees-Mogg), who spoke eloquently against all that is being proposed, that I and everyone in the House care deeply about a free press, but a free press does not mean a press without a means of redress. It does not mean a press without a need to put things right when they get things wrong. It should not mean a press where the rich and the powerful can sue, get injunctions and take action, but where innocent victims have been left to suffer because the regulatory system does not work. A proper free press needs a proper, effective, independent regulatory system, and that is what we aim to achieve.

I thank right hon. and hon. Members for their kind remarks. I do that also on behalf of the Leader of the Opposition and the Deputy Prime Minister. This has been a genuinely cross-party effort. The royal charter has been hugely improved by the many hours of work that have been put in by all sorts of people to try to get it right. I would like particularly to thank my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport, my right hon. Friend the Minister for Government Policy and the deputy leader of the Labour party, who I know have worked extremely hard to try to reach all-party agreement.

A number of hon. Members pointed out that this has been a complicated and at times interesting process. It is complicated when one is trying to achieve something when there are different opinions within all political parties in the House and a need to work across party to get this done.

I note from the debate that there was a warm welcome for the proposals from all parts of the House. I thought it particularly interesting that the current Chair of the Culture, Media and Sport Committee welcomed what is being proposed, as did a number of past Chairmen of similar Committees. So I believe the proposal starts with good will.

I make the point, which echoes remarks made by the right hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes), that this is only one part of what Leveson discussed. There is obviously the relationship between the police and the press. That needs to be put right, and new rules are being put in place. We need to get the relationship between the politicians and the press right, and there are new rules and new transparency in respect of that. There is the issue of press ethics, and I believe we have made some real progress today.

A number of hon. Members made the point about how much time there had been to study the royal charter. Obviously, in its final incarnation it has been produced only today, but the first version of a royal charter was published on 12 February, so there has been time for people to make points and to consider how it would work. A number of Members pointed to the irony of using a royal charter, even pointing out that some of the language in it is on the flowery side. Yes, it is perhaps ironic, but there is a real purpose. I believe that if we opted for legislation, even about the nature of the recognition body, we would be taking a bad step, so it is better to use the royal charter, which allows us to set up an independent body without using statute to describe its purposes.

I join the hon. Members, particularly the hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant), who urged the press to sign up. The point made by my hon. Friend the Member for South Dorset (Richard Drax) is correct: this is a voluntary system. What Leveson said we should establish is an independent self-regulatory body that the press have to set up. They then apply for recognition, if they want to, to the recognition body, and it is the recognition body that the royal charter establishes. I think there has been some misunderstanding about that point in the debate. The royal charter does not set up a self-regulator; that is for the press to do. We urge them to do it, and to do it rapidly. I know that work is already under way. It is our task, through the royal charter, to set up the recognition body. The press can decide to seek recognition from it, and then they get the advantages in terms of the exemplary costs and damages, which the House will debate a little later.

A number of Members made the good point that we must not oversell what is being set out today. It is a neat solution to the problem, but it is not a panacea, as my hon. Friend the Member for North Thanet (Sir Roger Gale) said. Those who will be responsible for making the self-regulation work will be the press. They have to set up their self-regulatory body, make sure that it has teeth, make sure that it can seek recognition, and then put in place something that we can be proud of.

I thought the quote of the debate was from the right hon. Member for Manchester, Gorton (Sir Gerald Kaufman)—it is now closing time in the last-chance saloon was the phrase he used. The point that I would make in commenting on that is that we are not replacing a self-regulatory system with a statutory regulatory system. We are trying to replace a failed system with one that will work because, crucially, it has real independence at its heart.

A number of Members referred to the fact that the regulatory body will have an independent board. Crucially, not only is it independent, but it will be properly overseen by the recognition body, and crucially, that oversight is established in a way that does not endanger a free press or give Parliament a locus endlessly to interfere. That is important. Of course we all have strong views about the press, press freedom and press regulation, but it would not be right for Parliament to pass laws and then go on amending laws and making changes to laws about what the press should and should not do. It is important that the method that we have chosen means that not only will we not be able to do that, but the royal charter specifically says that it cannot be changed unless there is a two-thirds motion in both Houses of Parliament.

In a way, this is what the whole debate is about: Leveson gave us the architecture, the independent self-regulatory body, and the recognition body to make sure that the press was not marking its homework. My right hon. Friend the Minister for Government Policy played a key role in providing the solution that I think is best, which is using a royal charter so that we do not cross the Rubicon of writing all the rules into the law. I commend the leaders of the Labour party and the Deputy Prime Minister, the leader of the Liberal Democrats, on all the work that they have done to choose to work together to try to deliver something that is practical. It is notable that, when those talks broke down on Thursday, they chose to come up with a royal charter which was workable, rather than for us to get back into the trenches and have a fight over whether we should write these changes into law. I am pleased that everyone has taken the opportunity of doing a deal and having an outcome that will be good for our country.

It was right to commission the Leveson inquiry, it was right to listen to the outcome of the Leveson inquiry, and it was right to work out the best way of putting it in place. I know that many people thought it would be kicked into the long grass. It has not been. It has been acted on and acted on properly, and this should be done for the victims above all. I commend the motion to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That this House has considered the welcome publication of the draft royal charter by the Prime Minister, Deputy Prime Minister and Leader of the Opposition, and the Prime Minister’s intention to submit the charter to the Privy Council for Her Majesty’s approval at the Privy Council’s May meeting.

[Mr Speaker]

We come now to the Crime and Courts Bill [Lords] (Programme) (No. 3) (Motion).

[Mr Cash]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The hon. Gentleman does not always choose quite the best moment. Obviously, I am bursting with anticipation to hear the observations of the hon. Gentleman through his point of order, but if he can just be a tad patient we will come to him. We could not forget him.

On the programme motion, it may be helpful to the House if I point out that manuscript amendments (d) to (i) to the programme motion have been tabled by the hon. Member for Wellingborough (Mr Bone), with the support of a number of other hon. Members. Copies of those manuscript amendments, I understand, are available in the Vote Office. I have selected amendments (d) to (i), but not Mr Bone’s tabled amendments (a) to (c). I will therefore invite the hon. Gentleman to move amendment (d) in the course of debate.

When in a moment I call the Leader of the House, it will be to move the programme motion, but I am sure that he will indulge the hon. Member for Stone (Mr Cash).

[Mr Cash]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. On Thursday, the Leader of the House announced the business for this week, and he added that following the European Council meeting there would be a statement by the Prime Minister. We have not had an occasion before when the European Council has not been followed by a statement. My point of order is therefore to ask why the Leader of the House suggested there would be one, but we have not had one today.

[Mr Speaker]

We have not had one today. The Prime Minister has heard the point of order and he is very welcome to reply if he wishes.

[The Prime Minister]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. We now have more European Councils than sometimes is altogether healthy, and certainly more than there have been in the past. There are almost always oral statements, but I think that on this occasion, when it was very much a take-note European Council rather than one packed with exciting things, a written ministerial statement will probably suffice.

[Mr Speaker]

I thank the Prime Minister for his reply. [Interruption.] An hon. Member is chuntering “Tomorrow” from a sedentary position. I do not know what tomorrow will bring. All I know is that the hon. Member for Stone has not yet exhausted the resources of civilisation, and I dare say he will return to these matters as and when he thinks fit. I thank the Prime Minister very much for staying to hear that and responding. It is a kind of pre-emptive gratification, and we are grateful for that.