National Cyber Security Centre

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 16th October 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what is the role of the National Cyber Security Centre in monitoring and preventing cyber attacks.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the NCSC, as the UK’s technical authority, is the UK Government’s authoritative voice on the cyber threat, providing independent assessments and improving cybersecurity across the United Kingdom. The NCSC provides protection at scale and drives improvements to resilience and security to mitigate threats from our adversaries and reduce cyber harms in the UK. Through tailored expertise to protect citizens, businesses and organisations, the NCSC works to make the UK the safest place to live and work online.

[Baroness McIntosh of Pickering (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for that Answer, and for the White Paper that the centre has produced. What advice would my noble friend and the Government give to a firm in North Yorkshire that underwent a cyberattack a year ago and had its systems restored only by the payment of a rather large ransom in cryptocurrency? The White Paper focuses on prevention but, in the midst of an attack, what can a company possibly do other than pay the ransom?

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend raises a couple of important points. First, on ransom demands, as she will be aware, it is the firm position of the Government and UK law enforcement that we do not encourage, endorse or indeed condone the payment of ransom demands. For example, if you pay a ransom after your computer has been affected or your systems have been impacted, there is no guarantee that you will not be targeted in the future by criminal groups. In that regard, Lindy Cameron, the CEO of the NCSC, and the Information Commissioner have written to the Law Society and the Bar Council.

However, the Government offer specific support, including to small businesses. There are the 10 Steps to Cyber Security and the Small Business Guide; there is also a ransomware portal that provides fresh advice, as well as the NCSC’s assured cyber incident response scheme. It is ever evolving, but the Government are very robust, and we are working across departments to ensure that we give the best information and response possible.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, of course, I refer to my interests in the register. I suspect that the excellent schemes that the Minister has outlined are very useful but that they do not address the question that the noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh, asked. If a company or organisation is subjected to a ransomware attack, can it get tailored help as to what to do in real time from the NCSC, and how do people know how to access that?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, if the noble Lord reflects on the answer that I gave, he will see that I answered the question quite directly. The first point is, “Don’t pay”, because the experience is that there is no assurance. Of course, a small company will have limited resources, and some of the portals, information and websites, as well as the response that I have outlined, are designed to help exactly those kinds of small businesses in their response. However, one thing is very clear, whether it is within my department or the Home Office: that by paying such demands there is no assurance, for a small or a large company, that a ransom attack will not happen again.

[Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston (CB)]

I declare an interest as the chair of Wilton Park, an executive agency of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. Small organisations, while they are not completely part of government, nevertheless provide some back-door entrance to government by some people with malign intent, and they carry quite disproportionate costs to ensure their cybersecurity. Have the Government given any thought to how they could support ALBs and executive agencies across government more comprehensively?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I recognise the vital insights of the noble Baroness. In working across government, we also work to ensure that government systems, structures, departments and agencies are fully protected. As I said in my Answer, this is an ever-evolving and ever-challenging threat—what is good today needs to be adapted for tomorrow’s threats. Where specific issues arise, be they for small businesses or for agencies, we seek to provide the necessary focused support.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I have visited the centre and greatly admire the work of the whole team. The public and the private sector should adhere to its advice. The Government have consulted on prohibiting payments to ransomware. The Minister and I well know that the source of many such attacks is Russia and, currently, Iran. Does it not sit ill that businesses are only being told not to pay ransomware, rather than having a legal prohibition, when that money will end up in Tehran or Moscow?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord is quite correct and we have often discussed these issues and challenges. The mitigations we have put in and the advice we provide are all part of an overall package but, as I am sure he will agree, the challenge is that we also need sharp-end sanctions against these states. As I know from my experience at the Foreign Office over the last few years, we never used to call out or challenge state actors for cyberattacks. We now do so. The two countries the noble Lord named—Russia and Iran—are very much part of our focus. I am sure he will acknowledge that we have imposed cyber sanctions on Russia.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, to take the Minister back to prevention, he will be aware of the increase in the number of ransomware issues—the incoming Costa Rican Government last year and the Irish healthcare system the year before were both hit by ransomware attacks. Can he tell the House more about what we are learning through international co-operation? Prevention is obviously better than having to deal with a significant problem afterwards, so I hope that we are learning something from other countries that have had to deal with this and that we can extend that to public bodies and private organisations.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I totally agree with the noble Baroness and assure her that we work very closely with our key international partners in calling out some of these cyberattacks against companies or even government websites and systems. We seek to act together and have done so. She will be aware that at the beginning of next month we will host an AI summit, which the Prime Minister is overseeing, very much aimed at exactly what she articulates—how we can learn from each other while improving our responses. I always say that, for cyber and many of the other challenges we face, as good as mitigations or mechanisms may be, those who seek to cause us harm—be it to business or directly to the Government—are looking at new ways to overcome them, so we will continue to share and co-operate with our key partners and allies on this.

[Lord Clement-Jones (LD)]

My Lords, a few weeks ago, the National Cyber Security Centre issued a warning about the risks of “prompt injection attacks” on the new large language models such as ChatGPT when used in the workplace, which enable them to be open to manipulation. What are the Government doing to ensure that they mitigate that risk in their own workplaces?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have said, we are working across government and internationally. I think we all recognise the catch-up element with the evolution of these new methods. There are transformational elements with new innovations—that is why I referred to the AI summit, which is intended not just to avail us with the opportunities these new technologies present, as the noble Lord articulated, but to address the challenge and high risk presented to government, industry, sectors and individuals.

Noble Lords may recall the sad occasion when this very Parliament was attacked physically. I remember the emotional exchanges and statements made at the time, including by my noble friend Lady Evans. There was another attack at that time, on the parliamentary emails of many Members of this House and the other place. The knowledge base available for mitigation was limited, as was awareness. I think most Members and colleagues were concerned about getting their machines and devices up and working rather than about the data loss. The more learning, education and information we can share, the better we will be at mitigating some of these risks.

[Lord McLoughlin (Con)]

My Lords, a company which is the subject of a cyberattack may not wish to be publicly identified, but they may have suffered severe financial problems. How is HMRC taking this into account and giving those companies some breathing time to put right what may have happened to them? It is all very well saying it in one section, but is there a cross-government approach to this issue?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure my noble friend that we do have a cross-government approach to this. He raises a very important point about both risk and the cost associated with cyberattacks, and we are very much seized of this. I have already outlined specific schemes and support. It is very important that we share this, however, so in the interests of full information, I will write to my noble friend and put on record in the Library the number of schemes that are available for information sharing and the support that can be offered to those impacted.

Libya Floods

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 19th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I appreciate that the Minister has been focused on the huge disaster in Libya, and of course the situation is incredibly complex. Last Thursday, David Rutley said that

“the UN is … finalising its needs assessment”,—[Official Report, Commons, 14/9/23; col. 1002.]

and that the UK stood ready to assist in is response. I take it that that assessment has now been received, so can the Minister update us on what the UK’s support will be for the disaster response team and whether this includes technical and expert advice and support? Finally, I know the Minister is on his way to UNGA at some point. Can he reassure the House that the UK will be mobilising global support for the disaster relief efforts in Libya?

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure I speak for all of us in your Lordships’ House as I extend the condolences of the Government and the whole House to the people of Libya and, if I may, to the people of Morocco. Two absolutely shocking events have taken place and the human suffering has been immense.

I assure the noble Lord that we have been very much seized of the situation. Two days ago, I spoke directly to the OCHA co-ordinator, Martin Griffiths, to understand fully the work of the UN. We are routing our support through the UN agencies on the ground because of the complexity of the situation. Over the weekend, the United Kingdom’s Foreign Secretary immediately announced £1 million of funding to provide life-saving assistance, based on a needs assessment. I announced a further package of £10 million to bolster UK support in the region to cover the situation in Libya, as well as in Morocco. I can report to the House that the first flight carrying UK-funded support landed in Benghazi on the morning of Monday 18 September, including shelter items, portable solar lanterns and, importantly, water filters.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I associate myself with the sympathies from the Minister to the people of Morocco and Libya. Regarding the UK response, the Government depleted the humanitarian relief fund to less than 10% of its previous levels—has that now been fully replenished, to ensure that we can respond to natural disasters such as these going forward? On the specific response to Libya, the Minister will be aware that there have been reports of warnings which could have potentially saved thousands of lives. Which institutions within Libya do the British Government trust to ensure that any reconstruction and humanitarian relief work will be done in a corrupt-free way, to ensure that people do not have their suffering prolonged?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure the noble Lord would acknowledge that the response to the crisis in Morocco and in Libya has ensured that we have stood up funding based on the needs assessment and in line with the conversations we have had through UN agencies and, importantly, with the Libyan Administration. I spoke to the head of the Presidential Council, Mohamed al-Menfi, and extended the condolences of the United Kingdom. His Majesty the King has also sent a note. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has spoken to Prime Minister Dabaiba in this regard. I am also looking to meet the appropriate Libyan Minister on the ground in New York when I depart for the UN later today.

We have ensured immediate, life-saving funding. As the noble Lord recognises, the situation in Libya is extremely complex. There are two warring sides. I have spoken directly to our chargé on the ground in Libya to ensure there is good co-ordination with all sides. We are hearing some reports, in this desperate situation, of good co-ordination, but so much more needs to be done. The main issues are of access and logistics. On the eastern side of the country, from Benghazi, aid to all the affected areas has been hindered by people who are stopping it being delivered. They are hindering the important humanitarian work as well.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister referenced the role of the United Nations. He will have seen reports that UNICEF says that some 300,000 children have been affected and that the number is rising. Is he able to give the House any more information about this? He will have also seen that UNICEF has launched its own appeal. Can he tell us whether the disasters appeal in the United Kingdom is concentrating on both Libya and Morocco? Is he confident that the aid needed in Morocco is now reaching its desired intentions and purposes at first hand? As the Minister knows, there were complaints about how slowly it was being taken up.

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

On the noble Lord’s latter point, on the Saturday evening and overnight into Sunday I engaged directly with the Moroccan Foreign Minister to ensure we knew exactly what was required. I pay tribute to our emergency response teams, which mobilised overnight to ensure that the required assistance went out on two RAF planes. I am grateful to my colleagues in the Ministry of Defence for their strong co-operation. Those planes landed and the aid got through to the key parts of Marrakesh, which many noble Lords will know well, and the Atlas Mountains. We are also working with key agencies on the ground. I know that the Moroccan ambassador has embraced the NGOs which stand ready to assist, and which are working with local partners.

The UN has launched a flash fund for Libya. There are several UN agencies on the ground such as the World Health Organization and UNICEF, as the noble Lord said, and the World Food Programme has begun delivering food assistance. It is very difficult, particularly in Derna, which has been totally and utterly devastated. Once the assessments that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, mentioned are made and materialise, we will be able to stand up further support according to need.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, Libya is an oil-rich country. Surely the problem is not just one of money but of governance and neglect of the infrastructure over a long period. Is there any prospect that this tragedy might bring together the two warring factions in Tripolitania and Cyrenaica? Can the international community bring pressure on both sides and their sponsors at least to recognise the problem and try to reconcile it?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I totally agree with the noble Lord and his premise that Libya is economically very rich. Since the disputes broke out, which continue to plague the country, there has been corruption and a lack of co-ordination and administration. Some reports suggest that that led to the collapse of the infrastructure—particularly the two dams which directly impacted and devastated Derna. I can assure the noble Lord that we are working with the UN. Prior to this crisis, I had engaged with SRSG Bathily on reconciliation and bringing the two sides together. I hope to meet him again when I am in New York later today and during the next two days.

[Earl Russell (LD)]

My Lords, the apocalyptic floods in Libya are now estimated to have killed 11,000 people, with 10,000 still missing. Their intensity and impact have been aggravated by global warming. Since 2020, the UK’s aid budget has fallen from 0.7% to 0.5% of GNI. I implore the Minister to think again, particularly as the original aid budget was set before the world had to respond to regular climate disasters.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

We have talked many a time about the need for aid, and the Government are committed to returning to 0.7% at the appropriate time. I am sure the noble Earl would acknowledge that the United Kingdom has been at the forefront of support in both Libya and Morocco, and we continue to engage in this respect. I am sure the noble Earl has been following media and other reports and will know that this is not just about climate. There are some serious issues around accountability, particularly about the maintenance of the dam. We are awaiting a full assessment in that regard. There is an acute responsibility on the part of those who administer this part of Libya.

[Lord Deben (Con)]

Does my noble friend agree that these two things coming together is a terrible warning for the rest of the world? The mixture of climate change and inadequate protection, as well as inadequate dealing with the maintenance of infrastructure, ought to be a clarion call throughout the world, including in this country. Would he undertake to make sure that our adaptation report, which the Climate Change Committee said was entirely inadequate, can be looked at again?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I shall take my noble friend’s suggestion, because I know that he makes it in a very constructive way. Certainly, I think that we need to. The discussions that have taken place in the UN over the past couple of days have been focused very much on climate and the environment. I am delighted that His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales has been directly involved with this matter. It is important to note that we are only half way towards the fulfilment—or lack of fulfilment—of the SDGs. The performance is very low, and we need a concerted effort to ensure that the SDGs get back on track. I am sure that the report to which the noble Lord referred serves as an important contributor in this respect.

[Lord McColl of Dulwich (Con)]

My Lords, I declare an interest, as I have had a lot to do with setting up medical schools in Libya. I would be very interested to know whether the Minister has any information on the original construction of the two dams.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I can share with my noble friend that the dams were actually constructed by Yugoslavia, which in itself reflects how dated they are. Of course, any infrastructure that was built requires regular maintenance. The early reports that have come out, particularly with the complex situation in the eastern part of Libya, suggest that those dams had not been sustained in the way that was required. There are lots of reports of early warning signals and cracks in the dams, and we will assess those. What is required now is a concerted effort on the ground, and for the two sides in Libya to come together in the interests of the Libyan people.

Abraham Accords

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 14th September 2023 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I join others in thanking my noble friend Lord Polak for tabling this debate. I put on record my sincere thanks to him for what he has done, not just since the accords were signed but, in advance of that, in strengthening security and stability. I share very much the belief of those, including my noble friend and the noble Lords, Lord Bilimoria and Lord Mendelsohn, who say that stability and security lead to economic prosperity. That can only be good for the region and the world as a whole.

I join those who have expressed their thoughts and prayers for the people of Libya. I have spoken to the Libyan President and, this morning, to Martin Griffiths at the UN. We are co-ordinating our efforts. I know we will discuss that in the Chamber next week.

I join others in saying that we stand in absolute solidarity with Morocco. For most of Saturday night and Sunday morning I was working through the logistics of our response to the earthquake. I am delighted that, through the co-ordination we have and our investment in those relationships—it is not just the Government; many noble Lords here today have played their part in that—we were one of the few countries that were first in to make assessments. I pay tribute immediately to our search and rescue teams, which are doing such a sterling job. I assure noble Lords that we have other offers in place in place for both of those tragedies, and I will update the House accordingly.

Today we are discussing the Abraham accords. I was taken by my noble friend Lord Hannan’s contribution, when he reminded us of what looks over us and, indeed, that God minds over us. I totally align myself with his comments because that is something that we as people of faith—whatever faith we follow, but particularly those who follow the Abrahamic faith—should always reflect on.

My noble friend’s Question is equally poignant today, on the third anniversary of the historic Abraham accords. Regarding the UK role, I can put this simply to my noble friend. He rightly challenged the Government, but a lot has been done. I took on this brief in November last year and, by the sheer count of visits to those countries that are within the Abraham accords, Israel and the Palestinian territories, but equally to those countries that have not joined them and which are necessary to ensure stability and security, I can say that the Abraham accords are very much central to our dialogue.

As several noble Lords have pointed out, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has just completed his visit to Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories. I have not had a chance to speak to him because he is currently in Turkey, but I hope to catch up with him tomorrow morning on the outcomes of his visit.

I assure my noble friend and indeed all noble Lords that the accords that were signed unblocked new relationships: they were truly historic. We always talk about the real conflict between Israelis and Arabs, but we are seeing that narrative change, and these accords have been central. I assure the noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, and my noble friend Lord Polak that the work being done by Liam Fox and his team is very much part and parcel of our thinking. The accords formed the discussions in bilateral conversations I have had with Bahrain, Morocco and the UAE. Equally, I assure noble Lords that we have had strategic dialogues with all these countries, either in that country or here, led by either the Foreign Secretary or me. In all these respects, the Abraham accords have been pivotal to where we stand and the role we play.

Several noble Lords raised the issue of the Negev courts. This has indeed been part and parcel of our engagement and conversations with the United States and all those participating, including the likes of Morocco, which is to host the next key meeting. We have also scoped where the UK can really add value, including on common areas relating to climate. I confirm to the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, that we can use the opportunity of COP 28 in the UAE to again demonstrate our commitment in this respect.

As I said, this week, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary visited Israel and the Occupied Palestinian Territories. Importantly, the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, and the right reverend Prelate reflected on this. As the noble Lord, Lord Collins, said, it was an opportunity to mark the 75th anniversary of the strong UK-Israeli bilateral relationship and our close collaboration across a range of priorities. My right honourable friend engaged with both the Prime Minister of Israel and my dear friend the Israeli Foreign Minister, Eli Cohen. The relationship includes extensive security and defence co-operation, which continues to safeguard the UK and Israel’s national security, as well as our ambitious science, technology and sustainability partnerships, epitomised by our UK-Israel tech hub. I have a really positive story from when I visited Israel. One city that I think the noble Lord, Lord Collins, did not get to was Haifa, where there is a real demonstration of technology and community cohesion working so well.

The right reverend Prelate reminded us about the challenge we all face not just internationally but domestically. What happens in that part of the world—in the Middle East—plays out in the United Kingdom. I put on record my absolute abhorrence of those who seek to use anti-Semitism or Islamophobia and divide communities. That is not our way, and it should not be the way anywhere in the world. We will continue to stress that. That rhetoric has rightly been condemned by this Government—by me and my colleagues.

During his visit to Israel, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary met key leaders but also community leaders. He also made clear the UK’s position on the Middle East peace process and called on both Israelis and Palestinians to take meaningful actions and steps forward, first and foremost, to reduce tensions and secure peace. If we do not reduce tensions, we will see a continuation of the current tragic trajectory of loss of life on both sides. Stability leads to security, and security feeds economic prosperity.

As I said, the Abraham accords were historic and remain so. In March this year, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary signed the UK-Israeli bilateral road map with his counterpart, Foreign Minister Cohen. The historic significance of the Abraham accords is rightly in that document—their potential to nurture profound advancements for security, coexistence, prosperity and peace for the region and all its peoples. The road map also sets out our shared ambition to strengthen our partnership with Israel, boost our economic, security and technology ties, advance our co-operation on the environment and climate change and leverage our combined strengths to address global health challenges.

The UK also continues to work with other Abraham accord countries on some of these priorities. We work with partners across the region, including those who are yet to join or sign agreements with Israel. We believe that we need to build on the positive and historic progress made at the Negev summit in March 2022. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, talked about his visit. I am always keen to meet, so we will of course schedule in a meeting with the delegation that went.

However, we are negotiating positive relationships with all countries. In Israel alone, we have started negotiations on an upgraded trade agreement and our tech hub has now facilitated hundreds of innovative partnerships. Today, Israel supplies one in seven of all medicines to the NHS.

While my noble friend Lord Polak is a great advocate for dedicated resources in the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, I assure him of two things immediately. He has a very dedicated Foreign Secretary and I hope, with all humility, he would also recognise a dedicated Minister who is absolutely committed to the Abraham accords. Equally, from today’s debate we can see the dedication across your Lordships’ House to ensuring that the Abraham accords are not just sustained but strengthened, and that they deliver. My noble friend Lord Godson sought to interject, and I regret that he arrived late; but I know that he, too, is committed to the important actions we see with the Abraham accords.

Whenever I hear the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Stone, he gives a positive picture and his experience is well documented. He remarked that the Abraham accords are a great opportunity for the region. I agree. He said that we want to explore these opportunities for regional co-operation and development. I agree. We can all commit to this co-ordinating with the emerging regional architecture in the areas of security, stability and economic progress. We continue to work with Israel through the British Israel investment group, exploring opportunities to combine UK and Israeli expertise to tackle technological and sustainability issues across the Middle East.

On the other Abraham accord countries, I have already alluded to the extensive programmes, visits and engagements we have had. In December 2020, the UK Government warmly welcomed the normalisation of relations between Israel and Morocco. We also value the normalisation of relations with the UAE, Bahrain and Sudan that the accords enabled. The accords have led to a substantial increase in trade, as my noble friend Lord Polak highlighted, between all the countries. Just this month, Israeli Foreign Minister Eli Cohen visited Bahrain further to strengthen economic and cultural tries.

I can report to the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, who has had to leave, the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, and the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, that we are very much committed to this. Earlier today, I had a very good meeting with the Deputy Foreign Minister of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, and part of our wide-ranging discussion was on the important support that the United Kingdom lends to normalisation between Saudi Arabia and Israel. We are working very closely in several respects.

However, we must not forget the importance of current Israeli peace agreements, such as those with the Kingdom of Jordan and Egypt, which are crucial partners and neighbours of Israel. We have seen great benefit to all these countries. Great courage and conviction were shown by the leaders of Israel, Egypt and Jordan in signing peace agreements, and we must ensure that they too deliver. That is part of the security and stability for resolving the Palestinian issue.

My noble friend Lord Polak and the noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, talked about encouraging other countries. Of course, we are committed to that. I assure the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, that we are equally committed to finding a lasting solution to the current conflict between the Israelis and the Palestinians. This month is the 30th<sup>anniversary of the Oslo accords, a moment of hope that showed us what is possible in the peace process, and we are committed to that.

I thank all noble Lords for their insightful and expert contributions. We believe that the Abraham accords have generated new momentum and have brought greater stability and security to so many. The UK is committed to ensuring that normalisation delivers benefits for the Palestinian people. It was a historic milestone that brings us closer to the goal of shared prosperity and peace throughout the region.

I shall end with a personal anecdote which my noble friend Lord Polak knows all too well. My noble friend Lord Hannan talked about the prophet Abraham. I remember as a born-and-bred Brit Muslim by faith attending a Church of England school, returning home looking rather confused and asking my mother “What is Judaism?” Like all good mothers, she gave me something to eat, and after food for the stomach, she gave me food for thought. She said: “Tarik, when we build a house, we lay a foundation, then we put in the walls, and then we lay the roof on top of that house. As Muslims, we believe the foundation of our faith is Judaism. Without the foundations of Judaism, the walls of Christianity would not have been erected and without the walls of Christianity, the roof of Islam would not have completed what we call the house of Abraham. The other doors and windows represent other faiths and beliefs and how, ultimately, to find peace, security, stability and progress, we must come together in the house of God”. In that spirit, on the occasion of the Jewish new year, Rosh Hashanah, I, too, wish everyone of the Jewish faith here in the UK and across the world shanah tovah u'metukah.</sup>

Mr Jagtar Singh Johal

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 12th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I can confirm that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister raised Mr Johal’s case with Prime Minister Modi on 9 September in Delhi, on the margins of the G20 summit. We will continue raising Mr Johal’s case and any related concerns directly with the Government of India, including his allegations of torture and his right to a fair trial. I regularly raise Mr Johal’s case directly, including with External Affairs Minister Jaishankar on 29 May.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

I thank the Minister for his reply, but neither it nor the Prime Minister’s response to Questions in the Commons yesterday showed any sense of the outrage expressed by more than 100 Members of the Lords and Commons over India’s abduction and six-year arbitrary detention and torture of Jagtar Singh Johal, a British citizen. Does the Minister agree that it does nothing for Britain’s standing in the world when a British Prime Minister, looking for a favourable trade deal, expresses admiration for a man who was barred from entry into the United States and the UK for atrocities against Muslims in Gujarat, whose Home Minister refers to Muslims as “termites” and whose party is committed to turning India into a Hindu state, to the detriment of minorities?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that we raised Mr Johal’s case. We have a wide-ranging relationship with India, and in that regard we have a very constructive dialogue, including, as I have raised directly on a number of occasions, on a wide range of human rights issues. I am sorry, but I do not subscribe to the noble Lord’s description of either India or the Prime Minister of India. I declare an interest as someone who has Indian heritage and is Muslim by faith.

[Baroness Whitaker (Lab)]

My Lords, did the Prime Minister, and indeed the noble Lord the Minister, ask for Mr Jagtar Singh Johal’s release? What actions did they ask the Indian Prime Minister to take?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

As I said in my Answer, we raised the specifics of the allegations that Mr Johal’s family have raised with us directly. We engage with Mr Johal directly through our consular support. We do not believe that publicly asking for his release would be productive or constructive. There is a natural process and a legal process to be followed in India. However, we are raising allegations of mistreatment when they are made. We are also working on ensuring that the family can directly access Mr Johal. Indeed, I visited Scotland only last month, where I met directly with Mr Johal’s father, his wife and his brother.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, following on from that point, we have been here before with the cases in Iran and the Foreign Affairs Committee in the Commons emphasising that the Government needed to have a zero-tolerance approach to the arbitrary detention of British citizens. Do the Government agree and acknowledge that Mr Johal is arbitrarily detained? I think that previous Prime Ministers did. Is that still the case, as not just Mr Johal’s family but the UN working group has declared him to be? How can Mr Johal expect a fair trial, as the noble Lord has sort of indicated, after a confession was extracted from him by torture?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I did not sort of indicate; I was quite specific: a fair trial is required. It is protected by the constitution of India and the independence of its judicial system. The noble Baroness is quite right that the UN Working Group on Arbitrary Detention has issued a specific opinion about Mr Johal. We take that very seriously and have consistently raised those direct concerns about Mr Johal’s treatment with the Indian authorities. However, as the noble Baroness will know from her own experience, it is now for India to reply formally to that particular opinion.

[Lord Sahota (Lab)]

My Lords, after the Prime Minister raised the issue of Mr Johal with the Indian Prime Minister, have the Government given any feedback to Mr Johal’s family in Scotland? Secondly, do the Government think that Mr Johal is a political prisoner?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am not going to speculate on or respond to the noble Lord’s second question. This is not about politicising; it is a matter for the Indian authorities. They will be following a due process. As I have said before, I have directly raised the issues and concerns raised by the Johal family. It is not just me; my right honourable friends the Foreign Secretary and the Prime Minister have done so. As I said in my Answer, the important thing is to ensure that there is a fair trial. Where allegations are made of mistreatment, we will raise them directly. We have a constructive engagement with the Government of India, which allows us to raise these key points and messages directly and candidly.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the fact is that until now there has not been due process and there are clear accusations regarding the way Mr Johal has been treated. In the Minister’s letter to Mr Johal’s MP, he said there are risks and benefits to calling for his release. Can he outline what the risks are? That is critical in our relationship with India and its Prime Minister.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord is well versed in this. There are risks in any issues or challenges we face with any country. They are based on an assessment of what that balance will be and how it will impact the relationship, but equally on non-interference in its legal process. If a judicial process were under way here in the UK, we would not expect countries publicly to call for the release of an individual or to interfere in the legal process; nor do we seek to do that where a due process is being followed. If there are concerns—I fully accept that there have been delays to various hearings—I assure the noble Lord that I have raised them, because to our mind the various delays are causing further grief to the detainee as well as to the family. It is important that this process be completed as soon as possible.

[Baroness Bryan of Partick (Lab)]

My Lords, I am sure the Minister is aware that it is widely believed that intelligence sharing with the Indian authorities contributed to Mr Johal’s detention and torture. Will the Government now acknowledge and apologise for any role that the UK played in his detention and take responsibility for securing his release?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure that the noble Baroness, in asking the question, is aware that Mr Johal has an active civil litigation case against His Majesty’s Government on this matter and that this is an issue before the court. We must let that process take its course. I am sure the noble Baroness will appreciate that I cannot comment further on the case because of that material fact.

[The Earl of Sandwich (CB)]

My Lords, my noble friend mentioned the trade deal which has been going through with India. Can he reassure the House that the human rights dialogue continues and is unaffected? Can he give other examples of cases we have taken up?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I can give that direct assurance. As well as being Minister for our relationship with India I am also, as the noble Earl knows, Minister for Human Rights. We have a very structured engagement on human rights. I am not going to go into specific cases, in order to protect some of those individuals, but we have a very productive exchange. We raise a number of cases as well as broader human rights issues, including the key aspects often raised in your Lordships’ House.

[Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab)]

My Lords, I rise to raise again the issue of arbitrary detention. I know it is rather difficult for us because we are now facing huge delays in our own criminal justice system, but six years is a long time to wait for due process. We keep being told this by the Indian authorities—when the issue was raised by Boris Johnson some years back, he was given the same reassurance that there was going to be a trial very soon. Here we are, six years on and there has not been a trial, so not surprisingly the family have very little confidence in those kinds of reassurance. The international community has confirmed that Mr Johal has been detained in conditions which suggest that he has been seriously tortured. It really is coming to a point where one is expecting something more than polite conversations with the Indian Government. Were we having more than polite conversations?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I assure the noble Baroness that whatever the nature or substance of a conversation, I would regard any engagement we have as polite, but politeness does not mean that we cannot be straight and candid in those exchanges. The engagement we have with the Government of India is a constructive friendship; it is a partnership. As I have already said from the Dispatch Box, I fully accept that Mr Johal’s case has continued over a number of years, and I have been engaged directly on this. That is why it is important that we keep it very much on the front burner, and that is exactly why in the bilateral engagement my right honourable friend had with the Prime Minister of India, he raised this.

Afghanistan: Aid for Women

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 11th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Watson of Wyre Forest]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they have taken to aid and support the women of Afghanistan since the departure of United Kingdom armed forces.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we prioritise support for women and girls in response to the Taliban’s repression. We have repeatedly urged the Taliban to reverse harmful policies. I assure the noble Lord that we raise these issues internationally. I regularly meet Afghan women and leaders to hear their concerns directly. Since April 2021, the Government have disbursed more than £532 million to Afghanistan, giving 2.3 million women access to food, healthcare and other essential assistance. At least 50% of beneficiaries of UK aid are women and girls.

[Lord Watson of Wyre Forest (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that Answer. However, the Taliban have targeted women and girls by using decrees which place severe restrictions on freedom of movement, expression and association, prohibitions on virtually all forms of employment and bans on secondary and higher education, as well as permitting arbitrary arrests and violations of the rights of liberty. Taken together, that is arguably a crime against humanity based on gender, so what further actions can the Government take to support women human rights defenders who seek safe passage to the UK because their lives are under grave threat?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I believe that I speak for most noble Lords but I believe on a point of principle that the humanitarian support that we have given to the people of Afghanistan, supported by Pakistan, Uzbekistan and other near neighbours, has been the right approach. We cannot discard over 36 million people. We have also sought to provide support for those who are most vulnerable, those who work directly with the United Kingdom, through the various schemes that we have run—the ACRS pathway 3 and the ARAP. Those schemes support their access to the United Kingdom, particularly Chevening scholars working within the security firm GardaWorld but also those who worked within the British Council. That still is work in progress on year 1.

There is a lot more that we can do but we directly address the Taliban and say that what they are doing is not just against our assessment of human rights but against the assessment of the very faith that they claim to follow. Rights of women are human rights and the Taliban need to uphold them.

[Baroness Hodgson of Abinger (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the Government for the moral support that they have offered to the Afghan women so far, particularly my noble friend the Minister, who has consistently met them. However, can he please tell me how the UK Government will help those Afghan women to be part of any international talks and able to play a part in the future of their country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for her kind remarks. As I say, it is about doing your job, but I pay tribute to her and to all other noble Lords who have worked collectively on this important agenda. There is no easy solution, but I assure my noble friend that we are working directly with leaders from various representative groups of women in Afghanistan and more broadly too. We continue to engage with key personnel on the ground in Afghanistan who were previously involved within administration while it was still functioning, but equally we are working with key international partners, notably Indonesia and Qatar among others, to ensure that the issue of Afghanistan is kept on the front burner and that inclusivity—the restoration of women’s rights and all rights, including minority rights—is not forgotten.

[Baroness D'Souza (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware of the growth of cluster education, or cluster classes, whereby groups of secondary school girls gather in neighbourhood houses and qualified teachers visit them. The scheme with which I am involved is now educating upwards of 1,000 girls in three provinces in Afghanistan. In a very few cases, local Taliban commanders have asked whether their daughters can join those classes. Is this something that the UK Government would support, since it is often difficult for those international aid agencies operating in Afghanistan to do it as it runs right across the policy of the Taliban? Maybe the UK has got a channel for funding this kind of education.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, recognising the important work that the noble Baroness has done, of course we fully support such initiatives. As she will know all too well, we protect the agencies that we work with on the ground to allow them to continue their important work, particularly when it comes to girls’ education. In our general assessment, there are now six to eight regions within Afghanistan where, because of the fragmented structure of the Taliban, there are initiatives which allow health access but also allow women in certain respects to go to work and allow girls to be educated.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, I also pay tribute to the Minister, who has personally worked tirelessly to help Afghan refugees fleeing the brutality of the Taliban. His commitment is well documented.

Do the Government accept that the deteriorating situation for Afghan women, as we have heard, amounts to gender persecution, which is a crime against humanity? This has happened in plain sight of the world over the last two years. What global support is taking place, such as we had in 2001 when the world rallied behind the cause of Afghan women? If Afghan women’s rights were important in 2001, surely they are just as important in 2023? What support is taking place globally to bring this gender apartheid, or gender persecution, to an end?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, recognising the important work the noble Baroness has done in this respect, I think I speak for everyone in saying that what is happening in respect of the rights of women and girls in Afghanistan is abhorrent. It is against the very traditions of the faith that the Taliban claim to follow; it is not right, it is simply wrong. That is why we are working with key partners within the Islamic world—for them to seize back the narrative on empowerment of women and girls’ rights and education. On our specific support, we are working with key agencies. I have already alluded to the figures but—just to share with the noble Baroness—we are supporting 4.2 million people with food assistance, of whom 2 million are women and girls. The issue of nutrition is high on our agenda, as well as empowering them through education.

[Baroness Coussins (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister tell the House how many Afghan interpreters who have been relocated to the UK have wives still awaiting security clearance in Afghanistan so that they can join their husbands here, as they are entitled to do? They are very likely to be living in vulnerable situations while they wait; even living in hiding. Perhaps the Minister could write to me if he does not have this figure to hand today.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Baroness that I keep abreast of figures on a weekly basis, but I do not go into specific details at the Dispatch Box for the sole reason of protecting those vulnerable individuals. We have seen a large number of interpreters arrive in the UK and there is an issue about supporting family members. Where I can, I will share the specifics with the noble Baroness.

[Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab)]

My Lords, perhaps by a slip of the tongue the expression “gender apartheid” was just used by a previous speaker. Increasingly, that terminology is used by Afghans who are here in exile, by the international community and by lawyers. A great deal of research has been done in support of it by South African lawyers, because apartheid means denial of participation in society—keeping apart. I wonder whether that is language that is accepted, and might be used by, the Foreign Office and whether the full force of the Foreign Office could be put behind amending the Rome statute so that it included gender apartheid as a crime against humanity.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness with her legal background has far more insights into the technicalities and changes that she is proposing, but I can say to her that what is happening to women and girls in Afghanistan is nothing short of abhorrent and we need to do our utmost to ensure that we stand up for their rights and afford them the protections that we can. I assure the noble Baroness that we are working in a very focused manner on that objective.

[Lord Swire (Con)]

My Lords, regrettably but perhaps understandably, there are still a large number of women in neighbouring countries, not least Pakistan, waiting to find somewhere to start their lives again. Many are former high-ranking officials, human rights defenders, policewomen or women connected to the police and politicians. Can my noble friend the Minister, who I know takes an enormous interest in these matters and I congratulate him on so doing, reassure this House that none of those women will be forcibly repatriated to Afghanistan against their will? If they are, many of them will meet a bleak future.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his remarks and I assure him that we are working very closely with the neighbouring Governments to Afghanistan, particularly Pakistan. Notwithstanding the change of Administration in Pakistan, they have been very supportive of our efforts to sustain and retain the people who have sought refuge there while their immigration status is finalised. Vulnerable women and girls are at the forefront our work in that respect.

Russia: Sanctions

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 11th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the impact of sanctions against Russia in the wake of its invasion of Ukraine.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, sanctions by the United Kingdom and its international partners have starved Russia of key western goods and technology, degrading Russia’s military and restricting its capacity to fight a 21st-century war. UK exports of machinery and transport equipment have decreased by 98%. Sanctions also limit Russia’s financial resources. The UK has sanctioned 29 Russian banks, accounting for over 90% of the Russian banking sector. We have also frozen over £18 billion-worth of Russian assets in the UK. Without sanctions, we estimate that Russia would have over $400 billion more to fund its war machine.

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his answer. The stated aim of sanctions is to

“encourage Russia to cease its destabilising actions in Ukraine”.

It seems to me that there is no evidence that sanctions have had any such impact. Russian GDP has dropped by a mere 2% and the country is skilled in circumventing sanctioned goods through third countries. Despite being subject to 13,000 different sanctions, which I think is more than any other country before, they have made no appreciable difference to Russia’s behaviour—we think of its links with North Korea, China, Iran and so on. Are the Government therefore prepared to move to more precisely targeted smart sanctions, the aims of which are clearly defined and the impact of which more measurable?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate talked about the impact of sanctions. I can share with him that sanctions are having a direct impact. On revenues alone, they have left Russia’s budget in deficit, rather than the surplus that the Russian Government themselves predicted for 2022. Russia has suffered an annual deficit of £47 billion, the second highest of the post-Soviet era. Russia’s energy revenues fell 47% in the first half of this year. At the same time, global oil prices are lower. Less immediately visible, but more importantly in the long-term, more than 1,000 foreign businesses have left Russia, along with thousands of high-skilled workers. More continues to be done, as we co-ordinate and work with other countries. Particularly notable recently is that Armenia, Turkey and Kazakhstan have taken action on the issue of supply chains, which the right reverend Prelate raised. That kind of co-ordination is important if we are going to make these sanctions work across the piece.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, on targeted sanctions, the oligarchs who make up the inner circle around Putin, and the huge number of people who have property here, have almost invariably made their money by nefarious means—they must have done, because 30 years ago there was no private capital in Russia. Could my noble friend the Minister give us an update on how many oligarchs are having their property—and whatever else—put into suspension so that we can confiscate and use it to rebuild Ukraine?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with my noble friend that we all want—I think I speak for the whole House—to get Russia to pay for its war on Ukraine. At the time of the invasion, the UK sanctioned 129 oligarchs who have a combined net worth of around £145 billion. As I said earlier, we have frozen £18 billion-worth of Russian assets under the regime. The UK has also set up specialist agencies in the NCA and, as I said earlier, we are working with key partners. Legal hurdles need to be addressed, but we are not doing that alone—other partner countries are also looking to allow those assets, now that they are frozen, to be moved across. Ultimately, when the war ends, we can use the money from those assets in the reconstruction of Ukraine.

[Lord Sahota (Lab)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister signed a joint declaration at G20 which did not condemn the invasion of Ukraine by Russia. Is the Government going soft on Russia now?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I am sorry to say that I cannot disagree more with the noble Lord. We have not gone soft on Russia; this House has not gone soft on Russia; this country not gone soft on Russia. At meetings such as the G7 and the G20, there are a broad number of countries and alliances. I assure the noble Lord that I have sat in many meetings where we have had to agree a statement; the fact that Ukraine was mentioned in that statement, with Russia present in the room, indicates a way forward. We also have to address these issues with partners who still do not have the same view as us, and we do that through effective diplomacy and specific action, as we are taking with our key partners.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister knows that Russia’s export in goods is now at pre-war levels, and the very friends the Minister referred to—in India and the Gulf—are offering financial services directly to Moscow. We are currently negotiating trade agreements with those areas, offering them preferential UK market access. Does the Minister share my concern that we are actively encouraging financial instruments who are supporting the Russian war machine to have preferential UK market access? Surely that cannot be right.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, many of those countries, including India specifically, have had historic and legacy relationships with Russia. As the noble Lord is aware, India has relied on Russian defence support for a long time over history. It is right that we talk directly, and raise those concerns, with key partners such as the UAE and India, while, at the same time, working constructively to ensure that there are alternatives. I assure the noble Lord that we are seized of that; it is why we are making progress in our discussions on the issue of circumvention with key countries such as the UAE. Turkey recently initiated certain procedures domestically to assist in this respect. Let us be very clear that, while Kazakhstan has a strong reliance on Russia, it is looking at its domestic legislation to see how it can curb the issue of circumvention.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, could the Minister explain to the House why we have a memorandum of understanding with the United States on co-operation over sanctions against Russia but we do not have one with the European Union? Could he also explain why the Foreign Secretary fended off the recommendation by the European Affairs Committee of this House that we need a properly structured framework for co-operation with the EU on sanctions so that, together, we could make them more effective?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has been very much leading on direct engagement with our partners in the European Union, not just on the issue of sanctions specific to this Question but on a broad range of issues. I know that we will shortly be looking in the Moses Room at various committee reports. I assure the noble Lord that we are working very much hand in glove with our key partners—that is, Canada, the United States, the European Union and others—to ensure that sanctions are co-ordinated. I look to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, specifically—this may have been his question—and say that we are working hand in glove with those partners, and the impact on Russia is beginning to tell.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

Let me ask that question, as the Minister provokes me into it. Last week, I asked him specifically about Ursula von der Leyen’s statement about freezing €200 billion-worth of assets. The EU has announced that publicly. He said last Thursday that we support this initiative. Let us have a clear statement from the Government today that we will act in concert with the EU and announce our intention to freeze assets so that they can be repurposed for rebuilding Ukraine.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I assure the noble Lord that, in many years across the Dispatch Box with him I have sought not to provoke him, and if I have done so, I have failed miserably on this occasion. However, I can give him that assurance. I totally agree with President von der Leyen’s statement, and we are working with our key partners on ensuring that the assets that have been frozen stay there. The important thing is the legal impact, and no country, including the various jurisdictions of the EU, has yet designed the system and structure to allow for those assets to be deployed for the reconstruction of Ukraine. We are working with the key countries, and, as the noble Lord knows from the Ukrainian Recovery Conference, with the private sector, on reconstruction.

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)]

Given the assertion in the Washington Post last month that 6,000 drones have been supplied by Iran to Russia, will the Foreign Office reconsider its position on Iran, and in particular the IRGC?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as my noble friend knows, we have taken a very firm line on Iran and sanctions. As the Minister responsible for Iran within the FCDO, I can say that we have taken a forward-leaning position on ensuring that Iran is held accountable for its actions. I agree with my noble friend that it is appalling that drones have been supplied directly by Iran. It is also interesting to note that Russia is now looking to the likes of Iran and the DPRK, both countries themselves subject to sanctions. I hear what the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, is saying from the Front Bench about the IRGC—that is why God has given us two ears: one for the questioner and one for the Labour Front Bench. Of course, I cannot speculate on future proscription, but I assure noble Lords that we keep all tools under review.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

Did our Prime Minister raise with Mr Modi the fact that India is still importing a large amount of Russian oil that is then being mixed with other oils, and so it is difficult to identify, and resold on the international markets? This is dangerous in a number of ways. First, it supports Russia, but, secondly, we are getting a plethora of very dangerous tankers—I got ships in—around the oceans of the world, which is a real problem.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Tankers—as I know from the definition at school—count as ships, so, again, awards must go to the noble Lord. The Prime Minister had wide-ranging discussions with all G20 partners and during his bilateral with Prime Minister Modi. As the noble Lord will be aware, Russia and its illegal war on Ukraine were among a number of points that the Prime Minister raised directly with Prime Minister Modi.

Ukraine: Post-conflict Reconstruction

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 7th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what provision they are making in budgetary contingencies for future years for a United Kingdom contribution to post-conflict reconstruction of Ukraine.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom and international partners are resolute and united in supporting Ukraine to rebuild and emerge from the war with a modernised economy resilient to Russian threats. The Ukraine Recovery Conference in London raised over $60 billion in international support, including multi-year commitments by the UK and others. We have allocated £395 million in bilateral assistance between 2023 and 2025, alongside up to $5 billion in fiscal support. Support for the year 2025-26 onwards will, of course, be confirmed after the spending review.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

I hope that the Minister can confirm that the Treasury and the Foreign Office are very clear about the size and long-term nature of the commitment to rebuilding Ukraine. The Republicans in the US Congress, with whom many Conservatives are now very close, are saying that the United States does not really need to commit to supporting Ukraine. Many Conservatives who supported the leave campaign thought that we should not be paying into the European Union budget, much of which was going to the reconstruction and development of east European, formerly Soviet countries, which contributed to British security. To ensure that Conservatives in opposition do not attack whichever Government it is for raising public spending to support Ukraine long-term, can he reassure us that the Treasury has this publicly in the forward figures?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord knows that I respect him greatly, but I am surprised by both the tone and the substance of his question. This Government, together with the full support of His Majesty’s Opposition, have been resolute—and, indeed, there has been support from the Liberal Democrats and universal support for the action that we have taken, for the support that we have given and, of course, for the financial commitments that we have made on humanitarian assistance, economic support, financial support and defence spending.

I have just had a meeting with our outgoing ambassador, Melinda Simmons, and I pay tribute, and I am sure that all noble Lords join me in paying tribute, to her resilience. As a sign of affection and support between us and the Ukrainian people—it is perhaps a poignant and reflective moment, but an interesting one, which I think that we should recognise—on her departure, a beautiful gesture on their part was to name a specific pastry after Melinda and call it the Melinda pastry. That shows the strength of relationships that we have built.

I am proud and resolute in that support. The noble Lord talked about the US. There are many Republicans—and I am not there to comment on the Republicans and Democrats. One thing is clear, irrespective: we have seen strong support from across the United States. As the noble Lord knows, Secretary Blinken is currently in Ukraine. Our support is resolute, and this is across the piece, irrespective of change. From this country, from this House and from the other place, there is unity of purpose and unity of action—we stand with Ukraine.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I take this opportunity to reiterate the Opposition’s support for the Government and absolute commitment to that—and certainly a future Labour Government will continue that support for Ukraine. The noble Lord mentioned the conference; at that conference, Ursula von der Leyen said that €200 billion of frozen assets belonging to the central bank of Russia will be repurposed to fund Ukraine’s reconstruction. Can the Minister update the House on what we are doing about those repurposed sanctioned and frozen assets? That is the key—making sure that Russia pays with its own money.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

First of all, I thank the noble Lord again for underlining the strong support of His Majesty’s Opposition. I have been very clear on the international stage that we speak as one—and I pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, in that respect as well as to my noble friend Lady Goldie, who will respond to a debate on this issue shortly. On the issue of sanctions, I agree with the noble Lord, and we are supportive of those actions. More than 60% of Mr Putin’s war chest has been immobilised—that is £275 billion-worth. The end intent, with all legal considerations taken account of, is that it should be repurposed and service in rebuilding the infrastructure that Russia has destroyed in Ukraine.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, is it not important to recognise that among the destruction have been many historic buildings? It is very important that the Ukrainians are able to do what the Poles did in Warsaw—although under a very unhappy Administration. Is it not crucial that we give as much technical advice as we can, through bodies such as English Heritage, so that they can rebuild their patrimony?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I take on board what my noble friend has said. I assure him that we are working to ensure that the infrastructure within Ukraine is developed in a more resilient fashion. We are providing technical support. We are working on energy infrastructure. My noble friend makes an important point about cultural heritage. We are working with bodies such as UNESCO to ensure that, first and foremost, we protect those heritage sites and that, where they have been destroyed, they are rebuilt.

[Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale (Lab)]

My Lords, the Prime Minister confirmed in February that more than £2 billion of assets that previously belonged to Roman Abramovich of Chelsea Football Club were ready to be transferred to a humanitarian foundation to be spent on those impacted by the war in Ukraine. That money has not yet been transferred; the foundation has not yet been established; the humanitarian work has not yet begun. Will the Government move a bit more quickly to ensure that this happens as soon as possible?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I can confirm that that was the point my right honourable friend made. The current situation remains that those assets are frozen and cannot be moved unless a licence is issued by the OFSI department within the Treasury. I can assure the noble Lord that we are working in an expedited way with our colleagues in the Treasury to ensure that those funds can be utilised appropriately.

[Lord Bellingham (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware of yesterday’s tragic news of the air raid on the Ukrainian city of Kostiantynivka, where 17 people were killed. Millions of pounds-worth of further damage was added to the literally hundreds of billions-worth of damage that has already been done. Surely we should be looking at a co-ordinated, Marshall-style plan for the rebuilding of Ukraine.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend raises another tragic event. I am sure that I speak for the whole House in saying that we stand once again in unity with the people of Ukraine. It was a blatant attack on a market in the middle of the day. We have heard about the 17 fatalities, and those are added to the many fatalities that have happened already and, tragically, I am sure that there will be others. I agree with my noble friend and I assure him that we are working exactly in that way, with cities being allocated to key countries—for example, there are elements within the city of Kyiv that are specific to UK infrastructure development. Of course, the real challenge is that, every time something is rebuilt, the Russians do not desist from destroying it again, so there has to be a plan. I assure my noble friend that we are working with international partners in that respect.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, can I ask the Minister to give some consideration to the scale of the problem? Does he recall that Europe got $13 billion after President Truman signed the Economic Recovery Act in 1948? Who is going to be as generous as that when it comes to Ukraine?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

We are already seeing the support and generosity, not just of the United Kingdom and our partners in Europe and in the United States. We have been heartened in the advocacy that we have been doing, for example, across the Gulf states. We have seen the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia provide £100 million in humanitarian support. This trajectory will continue, and we are working towards the G20, which is the next important milestone. The UN General Assembly high-level week in New York will provide other opportunities to focus on a structured approach. But from what we have seen—and we should look at that as a precedent—everyone has come forward to provide the kind of technical and financial support that Ukraine needs.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister knows that I support the valuable assistance that has been provided to Ukraine. Can he give the House the assurance that, for any funds going forward, there will not, as happened with the previous funds, be a like-for-like matched cut in the official development assistance budget? We may win in Ukraine, but we will lose in the global South if the support we provide for Ukraine is cut from the emergency relief given to those countries most affected by this in Africa.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The noble Lord will be aware that we are producing a White Paper on the whole issue of international development to ensure that we can align our priorities and provide the support that is needed by countries around the world. I am proud of the United Kingdom’s historical record in supporting the most vulnerable communities; that will remain a priority. Equally, this is a very different situation that we face: this is a war in Europe, the like of which we have not seen since 1945. I believe, and I am sure the noble Lord agrees, that it is right that we support Ukraine at this important juncture.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe (Lab)]

My Lords, looking further ahead, the restoration and growth of trade will be an important part of Ukraine’s recovery. Have we looked to see whether we could build our trade in the longer term with Ukraine, and in which areas would we explore?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I can assure the noble Lord that we are doing exactly that. We are already looking at supporting Ukraine with generators through the Energy Community support fund. We are also providing a financial guarantee for a £47.5 million loan from the EBRD, we are looking at £35 million of innovation investment in energy recovery, and we are providing loan guarantees to Ukraine in the medium to long term.

Global Famine: Solutions

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 7th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the five solutions to global famine proposed by the President of the International Rescue Committee to the United Nations Security Council High-Level Open Debate on Conflict-Induced Food Insecurity and Famine on 3 August.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom is stepping up action to improve global food security and nutrition. We will spend at least £1.5 billion on improving nutrition from 2022 to 2030. Our Permanent Representative to the UN, Dame Barbara Woodward, briefed the US-led open debate at the UN Security Council to strengthen global food systems, prevent future famines and reduce conflict. At the debate the International Rescue Committee suggested five helpful, practical solutions to insecurity and famine. The UK is taking concerted action to tackle hunger, including by protecting global food systems.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the shocking statistic that David Miliband highlighted at that conference is that 80% of the world’s acutely malnourished children are not getting any treatment at all. The lifelong consequences are horrendous. Solutions I have witnessed in Africa are the simple test of a band around the arm by parents and community health workers to judge whether a child is malnourished, and the supply of very cheap and cost-effective ready-to-use therapeutic food. In Mali this approach resulted in a 92% success rate and a 30% cost saving on other methods. Will this action be prioritised as part of the Minister’s pledge of £1.5 billion? When will we know how this money will be spent between nutrition-specific and nutrition-sensitive programmes?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I pay tribute to the noble Lord. I know he has been seized of this issue, including in his work with the all-party parliamentary group. I can give him an assurance about the practical nature of what he suggests. In his report, David Miliband talked about these actions being taken in Kenya and Malawi. They are sensible, low cost and efficient. As the noble Lord said, they identify malnutrition at an early stage. That early intervention is crucial, particularly in helping impoverished children. We are committed to it. Our funding underlines our strong support in this area. As I said in answer to the previous Question, we do a lot on the world stage, where we are very much aligned in helping the most vulnerable. Among those are malnourished children. We need to be focused on those children to ensure that this remains a legacy of which we can be proud in the years to come.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, this is my first opportunity to welcome the proscription of the Wagner Group. The president of the IRC specifically singled out the Sahel and Sudan as part of this crisis of famine, so I welcome the Government’s moves this week, since I was the first person in Parliament to call for its proscription last spring.

I hope the Minister will reflect on the fact that the UK Government have cut support for famine relief in the Horn of Africa in particular—this conflict-afflicted region. This led the Catholic humanitarian charity CAFOD to say in a statement on 31 May this year:

“This is a shameful betrayal of the people suffering and, despite their claims, shows the government is not taking this crisis seriously”.


Now that both Labour and the Conservatives are not going to immediately restore the 0.7% lawful target after the next general election, when does the Minister forecast that the UK will return to the level of support for famine relief that we had before the cuts?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I look around this Chamber, I am sure we are all very much at one on the noble Lord’s earlier point about the Wagner Group. Proscribing a group, as I have always said from this Dispatch Box, is a sensitive issue that needs to be measured. I pay tribute to our colleagues in the Home Office who took that considered approach to ensure that all legal avenues were covered. I am pleased that has now taken place. The group caused instability in the very regions the noble Lord mentioned. We are making assessments to see whether that makes a difference. Personally, I do not think it will make that much difference in terms of its structures: I am sure it will have some kind of contingency in place.

On the wider point, of course there has been a limit to what we have been able to spend with the reduction from 0.7% to 0.5%. We are committed to restoring that at the earliest opportunity when the fiscal situation allows, but at the same time we recognise that the United Kingdom has continued to support many communities across the Sahel, further afield in Africa and indeed in Asia, on some of the key priorities that we remain very much aligned with.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

The Minister used the phrase,

“at the earliest opportunity when the fiscal situation allows”.

Would he care to elaborate on exactly what that means?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

“Earliest” means at the earliest time possible, and “fiscal situation” means when our finances allow us to. I think the noble Lord knows that already.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

The Minister is so experienced and has been in the job a long time. He must know better than anyone in this House when that is likely to be. Can he tell us?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

This is when you look upwards for divine inspiration, notwithstanding being a person of faith. In all seriousness, it is important that a decision was taken that was not an easy one but a challenging one. The fact is that, even with our 0.5%, we have continued to support many communities around the world. As I said, the Prime Minister has made it very clear that we will look to return to 0.7% at the earliest opportunity. We are going through very challenging times, both domestically and internationally, and I am proud of the fact that we have continued to stand by many of our international obligations, especially when it comes to helping the most vulnerable around the world.

[The Lord Bishop of Exeter]

My Lords, as the president of the International Rescue Committee rightly noted, conflict is one of the primary drivers of food insecurity around the globe, so what steps are His Majesty’s Government taking, in co-operation with our partners, to convene dialogue and work with local peacebuilders and faith leaders to help in areas of conflict?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

We are working in many areas, including an area in which I lead on the initiative of preventing sexual violence in conflict. Famine is a key driver of conflict; we all recognise that. That is why I said in my original Answer that our Permanent Representative in New York briefed the Security Council, which is purposed to look at conflict alleviation and to prevent conflict in the first place. We are working with faith leaders and civil society organisations in key areas and key countries on the ground. In Yemen, for example, near neighbours include the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. We are engaging in places such as Afghanistan, where faith leaders have an important role. Some of this is discreet and we cannot go into the detail, to protect and support those who are working on the ground, but I assure the right reverend Prelate that we are doing exactly that.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, one of the things David Miliband also mentioned, on conflict being the driver, is that there is so much impunity and that the world needs to act when people commit horrendous crimes against humanity. We should stop just using words and take action. Does he agree with David Miliband’s statement in that regard?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, it is not just David Miliband who says that; we all agree that there must be accountability and justice for those who suffer and for survivors of whatever violence takes place. That is why I am proud, as I said on the earlier Question about Ukraine, that among the many areas that the United Kingdom is now supporting, we are supporting Ukraine on exactly that—during the conflict, on justice and accountability. As the noble Lord knows, we are working with key organisations, including the International Criminal Court, to ensure that those who commit these terrible, abhorrent crimes are brought to justice at the earliest point possible.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, the Russians having broken the agreement about grain shipments, which will obviously have a major impact, has the international community given any consideration to measures that can be taken to help resolve the problem caused by that lack of grain now shipping out of Ukraine?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I have two points to make. First, on the broader point on issues of food insecurity, we in your Lordships’ House and in the other place all need to ensure that that narrative is established. Russia says erroneously that it is sanctions that are causing the humanitarian crisis. As all noble Lords know, every sanction that has been applied has a humanitarian carve-out. The grain initiative was an innovative initiative sponsored by the UN, where Turkey played an important role, and with the likes of Turkey we are ensuring that we can restore this initiative because it provides support to many. Let us put this into a context that needs to be understood: 400 million people across the world used to get their grain from Ukraine, which is why this initiative is so important.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, Russia has attacked grain stores along the Danube. Will my noble friend make sure that we carefully record this crime against humanity when it comes to the reckoning?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as ever my noble friend is absolutely right, and I agree with him. I assure him that we are doing exactly that with key partners. The challenge has also been, when we look at the Danube, that some attacks are on territory currently controlled by Russia. A full assessment is being made on certain parts of the infrastructure, not just the grain. As he knows, various elements have caused environmental pollution; pollutants have gone into the Danube and are feeding into the Black Sea as well. There will be a real environmental challenge to face, post the war, but I assure him that we are working with key partners to ensure that this can be addressed. Importantly, those who have influence over Russia should provide access so that assessments can be made.

Zimbabwe: Election

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 5th September 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hoey]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the result of the recent election in Zimbabwe, and whether it was free and fair.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom commends the Zimbabwean voters for their peaceful participation in Zimbabwe’s recent elections. However, the UK shares the view expressed in international election observation mission preliminary statements that the pre-election period and election day fell short of regional and international standards. The UK is also concerned about the lack of transparency surrounding the compiling of results by the Zimbabwe Electoral Commission and the severe disruption of domestic observation.

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, it was obvious to every independent observer that those elections were not free and fair. In the words of Nelson Chamisa himself, they were a “blatant and gigantic fraud”, but the hard-hitting SADC report questioned the credibility of the elections and the breaches of its own standards. The saddest thing is that, as the election observers left, the familiar pattern of widespread arrests, abductions and torture of grass-roots supporters of the opposition is taking place as we speak all over the country. There were even lawyers arrested last night in a hospital where they were representing tortured victims—the same kind of retribution that Mugabe did after 2008. Does the noble Lord agree that now is the time for full support by His Majesty’s Government for SADC’s efforts to resolve the crisis, and in particular for our newly arrived ambassador to re-evaluate all facets of our relationship with a Zimbabwean Government who flout their own laws through acts of violence and torture, and to give some hope even in the darkest days to the perseverance and courage of the Zimbabwean people?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness refers to the arrival of our new ambassador. He arrived today and brings both diplomatic and development experience. I am sure he will play an exemplary role in our relations with Zimbabwe, its communities and all parties in Zimbabwe as well. The noble Baroness mentioned the abduction and torture of opposition CCC members, which we have raised directly. I can report that we are relieved that they have been found and are receiving treatment for their injuries. We also note the arrest and subsequent bail of two lawyers acting on behalf of the alleged victims on 4 September.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure that the Government’s present concerns and those of the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, are quite correct, but will the Minister accept that Zimbabwe is a vast country of potentially great wealth? Will he accept that, in the longer term, we will need its markets, its raw materials and its support in keeping the Russians and Chinese from dominating the whole of Africa? Despite the present difficulties—and remembering that Zimbabwe was once a member of the Commonwealth and could be again, although clearly not now—will the Minister accept that these things should be kept in the back of our minds?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend, who speaks on these matters with great insight and experience. Membership of the Commonwealth and its unique nature as an institution provide a real alternative to countries around the world. However, any country seeking to join must abide by standards, and, of course, that decision is ultimately for all members of the Commonwealth.

[Baroness Kingsmill (Lab)]

My Lords, I have just returned from Zimbabwe. I was a member of the Commonwealth observer group, and we did an extensive report, the interim statement of which Members can find in the Library. A lot of factors, many of which were also raised in 2018, led us to doubt the credibility of this election. Will the Minister agree that the ideal would be for Zimbabwe to re-enter the Commonwealth, but it can do so only when it meets the standards of proper democracy, the rule of law and free elections?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I answered the noble Baroness’s question in part in response to my noble friend, but I agree with her. I commend her efforts, and those of all the observer missions, in observing the election. We hope that, ultimately, inclusive and pluralist democracies emerge, and that Zimbabwe can find its way back into the Commonwealth.

[Lord Oates (LD)]

My Lords, in light of the developments in Zimbabwe—the widespread violence and intimidation of voters in the rural areas, the abduction and torture of many opposition activists and the continued detention of opposition Members of Parliament—will the UK Government be rather less equivocal and make absolutely clear that they do not regard these elections as free and fair and that the Government of Zimbabwe have no legitimacy? Will they make clear that, as long as this is the case, it will not be readmitted to the Commonwealth, as far as Britain is concerned, and that we will work with SADC colleagues to try to find resolutions to the problem?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I commend the noble Lord’s work as an observer of Zimbabwe, and I am sure that he has seen the two statements that we have issued since the elections. I agree with him about the importance of working with key regional partners, including SADC, which is very much deployed and making the same representations that we are, along with other key interested parties, to ensure that there is a pluralist approach when it comes to democracy. Democracy needs stability, security and inclusivity to be sustainable—that point has been made consistently to the Zimbabwean authorities.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I will reiterate a point I have made before: the ingredients of a thriving democracy are not limited to elections; civil society’s role is vital. I welcomed the noble Lord’s statement before the Summer Recess about the Government’s response to the legislation that is being introduced, but has his department acknowledged, or made representations about, the new labour Act that they are pushing through in Zimbabwe? The Zimbabwe Congress of Trade Unions has warned that this will allow the Government to interfere in trade union administration. Will the noble Lord work with global unions to ensure that the voice of workers is heard, not just politicians?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord and I have often had exchanges on the importance of all aspects of society being represented, and of civil society organisations and groups having their voices heard—that is clear. The noble Lord points to legislation. We have been extremely concerned and raised directly the implications of when, in June 2023, the Parliament approved the criminal law code amendment Act—the famous “patriot Act”, as they call it—which limits civil society. We are also concerned about the PVO Bill currently in front of the President. We are making representations and will continue to do so.

[Lord St John of Bletso (CB)]

My Lords, it is patently clear from all the international reports that these elections were not free and fair, but CCC still managed to secure at least one-third of the parliamentary seats. What measures can His Majesty’s Government take, as well as our international partners, to call for an all-party conference in Zimbabwe to try to reach an inclusive compromise road map for the economic and political sustainability of the country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord speaks from great insight about Zimbabwe. First and foremost, he will be aware of the work that Zimbabwe must do with the African Development Bank on the repayment of its arrears. The economic focus that is needed is something that must be prioritised by the new Administration. I also very much agree on the need for inclusivity when it comes to Zimbabwe and its future. Of course, the CCC and indeed all other parties must be part of that. One does hope that these points prevail and, as I said earlier in response to a couple of questions, these then add to the basis and foundation for eventual membership, we hope, of the Commonwealth as well.

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

My Lords—

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

My Lords, how did the recent election in Zimbabwe compare with the very first election, back in 1980, which I had the honour of attending?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I did not catch that, because of other voices. I will reflect on the Hansard and respond to my noble friend, because I missed the first part of his question.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, after all the major concerns about the Zimbabwean elections raised by observer missions, and the arrest yesterday of human rights lawyers, can the Minister ensure that these issues will retain a primary focus in the governance reform challenges identified in both the African Development Bank-sponsored debt arrears negotiations and discussions with the Commonwealth regarding readmission?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Yes, I can assure the noble Lord we will make exactly those representations, because they are vital to the discussions we are having with key partners about Zimbabwe.

[Lord Hayward (Con)]

My Lords, is it not the case that, although we send observer teams to oversee the actual election, much of the stealing of elections takes place before any observer team actually arrives there? Was it not significant that the violence that I witnessed after the 2018 election took place after the observer teams left? We are seeing the parallel experience this time: it is before and after the observer teams are there that is the real problem in relation to elections in Zimbabwe.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I understand the point my noble friend is making, and that is why it is extremely important that we continue to engage both pre-election but also importantly now post-election, through our ambassador and of course, as I said earlier, with key partners including most notably SADC and the African Union, to ensure that the very point my noble friend raises is addressed quite directly. I do feel we have traction: through representations, along with others, we see the release of those who are arrested. While it may be a glimmer, it is a positive glimmer in these situations.

Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations 2023

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 20th July 2023 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That the Regulations laid before the House on 29 June be approved.

Relevant document: 46th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee (special attention drawn to the instrument). Considered in Grand Committee on 19 July.

Motion agreed.