Freedom of Religion or Belief

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 10th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I declare my interests as set out in the register.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the British Government are deeply concerned about the severity of violations of freedom of religion or belief across many parts of the world. I am grateful to the APPG for producing such a comprehensive report highlighting the scale of the issue. We are marking International Human Rights Day with activities in the UK and overseas. Indeed, earlier today I hosted an event at the Foreign Office to mark the 70th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.

[Baroness Berridge]

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend for his Answer. Although the APPG commentary deals with violations of freedom of religion or belief, International Human Rights Day allows us to draw attention to how interconnected many human rights are. Women from religious minorities in countries outlined in the report, such as Saudi Arabia, India and Myanmar, often face double discrimination for being not only women but from a religious minority. Can the Minister outline whether Her Majesty’s Government, in their country strategies on freedom of religion or belief, or in their research, look at gender discrimination alongside violations of freedom of religion or belief, which is the only way to help these groups of vulnerable women?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am grateful to my noble friend for her work on the particular report and she is right to point out the important link between freedom of religion or belief and ensuring the rights of women and girls across the world. I am pleased to inform her that we continue to prioritise the issue of girls’ and women’s rights across all parts of the human rights agenda and all areas of British foreign policy. She will also be aware of our commitment to ensure 12 years of quality education for every girl across the world.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, on the subject of women’s rights, the Minister will be very familiar with Asia Bibi’s case. Surely there could not be a clearer case for asylum. There are rumours that the FCO and the Home Office wanted to grant her asylum, but it was blocked at higher levels. Is that so? When her case is considered again in January, will the United Kingdom Government be offering asylum if they possibly can?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As the noble Baroness will be aware from her time as a Minister in Her Majesty’s Government, we do not refer to specific cases. However, I can assure her that rumours are exactly that—rumours. She should not base any question on those. We are continuing to work with international partners to ensure that Asia Bibi’s safety and security is paramount. I can also assure her that, along with the Pakistani Government and our international partners, we are doing our utmost to ensure that that priority is not forgotten.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that our ritual listing of human rights abuses around the world is a little hypocritical when we turn a blind eye to human rights abuses carried out by trading partners in the Middle East and elsewhere? What sort of country are we becoming when a government Minister can say in public without criticism, “When we talk trade with China, we should not raise issues of human rights”?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure the noble Lord that I do not share that sentiment. This is important to me. I am proud of Britain remaining a bastion of human rights historically, currently and in the future, ensuring that we, along with our partners and friends, raise issues where there are human rights abuses. Sometimes that is done discreetly and effectively; sometimes we call them out publicly. That continues to be the case.

[Lord Cashman (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the defence of religious belief is paramount but, equally, that we should not go down the route of imposing religious belief and thereby using it to deny people their human rights in various parts of the world, not least in the 36 Commonwealth countries where religion is used as an excuse to deny lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people their rights?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

First, I agree with the noble Lord on the issue of forcing anyone to believe anything. My role is not just that of freedom of religion envoy; I am the envoy for freedom of religion or belief. “Or belief” is an important part of my role, ensuring that discrimination against anyone, including the LGBT community, is kept at the forefront of the agenda. Indeed, as part of our celebrations of 70 years since the charter, we announced that we will co-chair the ERC with Argentina from June 2019.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, it is good to mark the significant progress we have made in the 70th year of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, but it is worrying that in many parts of the world those human right are being questioned and pushed back, even by some of our allies. What action are the Government taking to stand with Michelle Bachelet, the UN human rights chief, to “push back” on the push-back?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The right reverend Prelate is right to raise this issue. On reflection, 70 years since the declaration, here we are in 2018, seeing abuses of human rights across the piece. We have talked about gender, faith and LGBT rights, which remain important priorities for Her Majesty’s Government. We are working closely with the human rights commissioner, Michelle Bachelet. I have met her twice already, as has the Foreign Secretary, to reiterate our strong support for her priorities and agenda.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his response. I agree completely with the noble Baroness, Lady Berridge, about the connection between human rights and freedom of religious belief. When giving the Minister responsibility for this matter, the Prime Minister said that we would work with all societies and countries, particularly civil society. What discussion is taking place with faith groups about the issue raised by my noble friend? How can we get people to understand that human rights are fundamental across all groups?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is again right to raise that. On working with civil society groups, he will be aware that we recently announced £12 million of funding, for which I am grateful to colleagues in the Department for International Development, in support of freedom of religion or belief initiatives to help civil society organisations on the ground in some of the most challenging parts of the world, exactly as the noble Lord articulated. LGBT rights, as well as other rights and gender equality, are an important priority. To give him another practical example, next year will mark the anniversary of my noble friend Lord Hague launching this initiative as the Prime Minister’s representative on preventing sexual violence in conflict. We will mark that by inviting faith leaders to stand together with those of no belief to prioritise the humanity that prevails in standing up for victims of sexual violence in conflict, because no religion, faith or belief sanctions it.

Sudan and South Sudan

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 10th December 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Curry of Kirkharle (CB)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and declare an interest as recorded in the register.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, through our engagement with senior members of the Governments of Sudan and South Sudan, the UK continues to make clear that any detentions for political reasons are unacceptable, and that any detainees must be treated in accordance with international standards and have access to legal representation and to their families. The Governments of Sudan and South Sudan must respect their people’s rights to freedom of expression, opinion and association.

[Lord Curry of Kirkharle]

My Lords, I absolutely agree with the Minister’s Answer. The problem is that the leaders of both Sudan and South Sudan have this year declared that they will release political prisoners, but they still retain a significant number. In the case of South Sudan, this was a condition of the peace deal signed by its President. These detainees are still being held without charge, many in dreadful conditions. One is a personal friend. They are being denied access. We have committed this year to address humanitarian aid. We have committed to fund £50 million for Sudan and £130 million for South Sudan. Surely it should be a condition of this aid that they abide by the signature they have made to release these political prisoners, who are still being held without charge. They need to release them immediately. It is a blatant disregard for human rights, as we have just been discussing.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord. I am aware of the facts of the case he mentioned. I assure him that detentions for political purposes are always unacceptable. As he rightly said, over the past year there has been an increasing number of detentions, particularly in South Sudan and Sudan. The UK Government have made clear our concerns both in public and in private. The noble Lord makes important points on the humanitarian support we are providing to South Sudan and Sudan. I assure him that we prioritise the importance of freedom of expression across all elements of society in our bilateral discussions, as I did myself when I visited Sudan recently.

[Lord Chidgey (LD)]

My Lords, the agreement signed between the parties to the conflict in December 2017 stated that they shall release to the International Committee of the Red Cross without delay any prisoners of war and all political detainees. Despite the reiteration of this agreement in June 2018, the Government of South Sudan has failed to comply, as we know. Does the UK agree with Amnesty International that the Government of South Sudan must co-operate with the African Union to establish the hybrid court agreed between them to ensure that those responsible for these abuses can be brought to justice as soon as possible?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the noble Lord. He will be pleased to know that this morning I was with Kate Allen of Amnesty International as part of today’s celebrations on the declaration of human rights. The points he made are pertinent. We continue to hold them accountable on that very basis.

[Baroness Cox (CB)]

My Lords, a representative of the Foreign Office said at an open meeting that the UK Government’s policy regarding Sudan had changed from sticks to carrots. The regime in Khartoum is enjoying munching those carrots, but on this Human Rights Day I ask the Minister: what conditions are the UK Government applying to the Government of Sudan to justify those carrots, particularly regarding the arrest and detention of human rights activists, often with torture, including Mohamed Boshi, who was forcibly removed while in exile in Cairo and is detained in Khartoum’s notorious Kober prison simply for being a member of an opposition political party—despite the fact that, in April, President Bashir issued a decree to release all political detainees?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Let me assure the noble Baroness that I visited Sudan recently and did not go equipped with any carrots. It was quite a candid conversation concerning priorities of human rights, including press freedoms. Civil society organisations were present. I conducted a round table, meeting with one of the senior vice-presidents, and we had some productive outcomes. For example, we will now be pen-holders at the Human Rights Council, and will use that as a means to push further reforms that are required on the ground. The detention of political prisoners, as the noble Baroness and others have made clear, is unacceptable.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I appreciate the Minister’s comments and I know that the UK Government have been putting pressure on the authorities, but the case of Peter Biar Ajak is concerning. He has had 135 days in detention with very limited access to legal aid, or even to his family. The case needs to be heard publicly, and I would appreciate the Minister making clear to the authorities that we want a clear understanding that he will be given proper access to legal aid and representation.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I note very carefully what has been said by the noble Lord and others in this respect, and I can assure noble Lords that, when it comes to political detainees, the very points he has outlined are paramount in our direct engagement with the Governments—be it with South Sudan, as in this instance, or with Sudan—and that we will continue to ensure that the right legal access and support is provided to all political prisoners.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, on this 70th anniversary of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights, can the Minister tell us which of the 30 articles in the universal declaration the Republic of the Sudan is not in breach of? Given that some 2 million people were displaced and some 200,000 to 300,000 killed in Darfur, and that Field Marshal Omar al-Bashir—referred to by my noble friend Lady Cox a moment ago—is indicted by the International Criminal Court for crimes against humanity, how can we justify continuing and trying to step up trade with the Government of Sudan, and what are we doing to bring him to justice?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

On that final point, as the noble Lord and all your Lordships are aware, he is indicted. The Government do not engage with him directly. However, we are looking—as I said myself during my visit—to build support for civil society. I can tell the noble Lord that there is one shimmer of hope, one silver lining to that dark cloud which still hangs over Sudan. I found that on one issue very close to his heart and to mine—the issue of freedom of religion or belief—what I saw on the ground of the relationships between the leaders I met from the Christian and Muslim communities was very positive. Indeed, in some of the challenges the Christian communities have in running their schools, particularly with the governor of Khartoum, the imams from the Muslim community were acting as their advocates.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister outline what he explained to the officials whom he met in Khartoum? What was the response that he got from them?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

It was not just officials that we met in Khartoum; we met government representatives as well. As I have said, the vice-president and Foreign Minister were among them. One of the objectives I had was to ensure that we brought focus to the human rights record of Sudan, and I was therefore pleased that, as an outcome of my visit, they agreed for us to become pen-holders at the Human Rights Council.

Yemen

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 15th November 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have participated in the debate. It is a very poignant end to the day. Indeed, I was reminded of that as I was leaving the Foreign Office by a UNICEF advert focusing on the grave humanitarian situation in Yemen. As a father and a human being, I cannot help but be moved into ensuring that we do our part, both politically and on the humanitarian front. I therefore join other noble Lords in thanking the noble Lord, Lord Luce, for tabling this debate. I appreciate the keen personal interest that he has taken in the conflict, based also on his family ties to the country. Before responding to some of the specific questions raised, I want to share the sentiment expressed by all noble Lords that we have sat back and let this conflict go on for far too long. The need is to act. I hope that through some of the responses that I give today I will provide noble Lords with assurance in that respect.

I thank the noble Lord, Lord Luce, and other noble Lords for focusing on the humanitarian support that the UK Government have provided—the noble Lord, Lord Collins, mentioned it, as did my noble friend Lady Helic and the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, who spoke from the great experience of his time at the United Nations.

We all acknowledge that what is unfolding in Yemen is now the largest humanitarian crisis in the world. The United Nations estimates that almost 80% of the population are in need of humanitarian assistance, including nearly 8.5 million people at risk of starvation. Last year, there were 1 million suspected cases of cholera, the largest outbreak in modern history—several noble Lords alluded to that.

I assure noble Lords, as several of them have acknowledged, that the UK is at the forefront of the response. Since 2015, we have provided more than £570 million in bilateral humanitarian support, including an additional £170 million this financial year, as we announced in April, to meet the immediate food needs of more than 2.5 million Yemenis.

I say in answer to a specific question from the noble Lord, Lord Luce, and the noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone, that UK aid has supported Yemen’s first ever cholera vaccination campaign. It was completed in May and helped to protect more than 450,000 men, women and children from that deadly disease. In August, we launched a further vaccination campaign around Hodeidah and other parts of Yemen aimed at more than 500,000 people.

As many noble Lords have acknowledged, the conflict has been led by the Saudi coalition in Yemen. However, we should also recognise that the conflict is the result of a Houthi insurgency which overthrew Yemen’s legitimate Government. The coalition became involved at the request of President Hadi, who had been forced to flee. As noble Lords have identified, Saudi Arabia has been deeply involved in the conflict, but we recognise its right to protect its national security from attacks, including missiles launched from Houthi bases at Saudi Arabia.

However, I acknowledge and respect the concerns expressed by noble Lords about violations of international humanitarian law, points on which were raised rightly by my noble friend Lady Helic among others. We are aware of such violations and take them very seriously. In Houthi-controlled Yemen, we also have deep concerns about aid not being allowed through to those in dire need, and we have pressed for improvements.

The noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone, asked about US intelligence sharing with Saudi Arabia. I am sure that she will accept that that is a matter for the United States and not directly for the United Kingdom. On her specific questions about UK arms exports, I am aware that the European partners have halted issuing licences. We remain confident that our assessment of licences is consistent with the current criteria. As the noble Baroness and other noble Lords will be aware, export licences are assessed against consolidated EU and national criteria. Our key test for exporting to the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is whether there is a clear risk that the export might be used in serious contravention of international humanitarian law. We continue to focus on that issue. I assure the noble Baroness that the MoD monitors allegations of violations of international humanitarian law arising from coalition airstrikes. The information gathered is used to form an overall view on its approach and attitude to international humanitarian law.

Saudi Arabia has now publicly acknowledged that it investigates reports of alleged violations of international humanitarian law through the joint incidents assessment team and that it acts on lessons learned. To date, the joint incidents assessment team has issued more than 90 statements from its investigations. I assure noble Lords that our test for our continued defence exports in relation to international humanitarian law is whether there is a clear risk that that a licence might be used to commit a serious violation. I have listened very carefully to the concerns raised during this debate and I assure noble Lords that we will keep this situation under careful and continual review.

My noble friend Lady Helic raised the issue of the targeting chain within Saudi Arabia. The UK’s role in the Saudi targeting chain is limited to providing advice, information and assistance to help Saudi Arabia respond to the threat from Houthi missiles. I hope my noble friend recognises the limits of what I can say in that respect, but this is a very limited form of support that we extend to Saudi Arabia.

There seems little doubt that the longer the conflict goes on, as several noble Lords acknowledged, the more appalling the humanitarian situation becomes. Noble Lords have rightly said that peace talks must be the top priority: there can be no military solution to this conflict. That point was made very clearly by the noble Lord, Lord Collins. The Yemeni parties must also engage constructively and in good faith to overcome obstacles and find a political solution: that is the only way to end the conflict, bring long-term stability to Yemen and address the humanitarian crisis. I assure noble Lords that the United Kingdom has played, and continues to play, a leading role in diplomatic efforts to find a peaceful solution. We have provided, for example, £1.68 million to the office of the UN special envoy, Martin Griffiths, to bolster his capacity to facilitate the peace process.

The noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone, and the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, talked about recent efforts. The UK has brought together the US, Saudi Arabia, the United Arab Emirates, Oman and the UN to find a peaceful, lasting solution to the conflict. The most recent meeting of the quad was on 27 September at the United Nations General Assembly in New York. The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, spoke of the UK’s position as a pen-holder. The UK proposed and co-ordinated a UN Security Council presidential statement, which I am sure that noble Lords recognise and which was agreed on 15 March 2018. The statement builds on a previous text from June of last year in its expression of deep concern about the humanitarian situation in Yemen. It calls for all parties—a point made by several noble Lords, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Collins—to agree steps towards a ceasefire. It welcomes the new UN special envoy and recognises the humanitarian imperative, calling for a vaccination programme, which I alluded to.

The noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone, asked about our discussions with the United States on the ceasefire. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary spoke to Secretary of State Pompeo about Yemen and specifically raised these issues last week. I assure the noble Baroness and all noble Lords that UK and US officials are working very closely together in New York on further action we will take at the Security Council. I assure noble Lords that we strongly support special envoy Martin Griffiths’ extensive efforts, including in trying to bring together all representatives, including the Yemeni Government and the Houthis, for consultations in Geneva in September. The UN, the UK and other states tried very hard to address the Houthis’ concerns but their delegation did not attend.

I fully accept that more needs to be done to address the catastrophic consequences for the Yemeni people. Now, for the first time, there appears to be a window, as noble Lords acknowledged. I am sure that all noble Lords welcome the recent intervention by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary when he visited the United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia on Monday to build support in the UN Security Council to bolster the UN-led process—indeed, I was in the UAE at that time. This followed his meeting with UN special envoy Martin Griffiths last month. The Foreign Secretary also had useful discussions in Saudi Arabia and in the UAE. We welcome the recent announcements, because of his intervention and efforts, and the Saudi assurances on the transportation of Houthi wounded from Yemen. I believe that there are 50 being taken out who require specific medical attention. This was a precondition for Houthi attendance at the next round of talks in Stockholm and we continue to urge all parties to engage with UN special envoy Martin Griffiths on the proposed political talks in Stockholm later this month. Let me assure the noble Lord that we will continue to work specifically on that at the UN Security Council.

The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, asked about the visit of Yemeni personnel last week. If I may, I will write to him in that respect. The noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, also asked about the UK’s response to the letter from the Yemen Safe Passage Group. Briefly, in response we continue to call on all sides, including the Houthis, to allow unhindered humanitarian and commercial access in and throughout Yemen, through the UN Security Council and direct messaging to the parties. We have successfully lobbied for the Government of Yemen to lift decree 75, which has slowed the import of food into the country. I am specifically pleased about the steps we have taken around Hodeidah. While the ceasefire is fragile there, it continues to show dividends in access to fuel and humanitarian aid.

In thanking all noble Lords—and as the Minister for the UN—let me end on a point about the UN Security Council. We are progressing constructively with all partners at the UN in New York. As the Prime Minister herself made clear on 31 October, a Yemen-wide ceasefire will have an effect on the ground only if it is backed by a political deal, which we all recognise, between all parties. A cessation of hostilities is an essential first step towards alleviating the suffering of the Yemeni people. This must be uppermost in everyone’s minds as we seek to put in place a longer-term solution. I am sure that we will return to this issue. Let me assure noble Lords that I will seek to update them on the initiatives and progress we are making on the Security Council, and that the UK will continue to influence the push for a collaborative approach to finding a lasting and political solution in our bilateral engagement with all parties and through our efforts at the UN in New York.

House adjourned at 6.16 pm.

Freedom of Religion or Belief

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 24th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to (1) promote freedom of religion or belief, and (2) mark International Freedom of Religion or Belief Day on 27 October.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, as the Prime Minister’s special envoy on freedom of religion or belief, I am leading the work with our diplomatic network to achieve an increased focus in our efforts on this agenda across government. We are seeking to effect change in key countries and to promote respect in education, supported by £1 million of funding. In this respect, I am also working across Whitehall to bring together ministerial colleagues from DfID, the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government, the Department for Education, and defence. We are marking the international day with an event, which I am delighted to be co-hosting with my noble friend Lord Bates, on 7 November.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns (Con)]

I thank the Minister for his Answer. He holds an important position as the Prime Minister’s special envoy. Can he explain what progress has been made in, for example, providing religious literacy training to departments such as the Department for International Development, so that it can cope better with some of the challenges it faces in countries such as China, Pakistan and Nigeria, where there are repeated assaults on the idea of freedom of religion or belief?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend raises a significant point about literacy in the important area of freedom of religion or belief. You need only cast your eye around the world to see how freedom of religion or belief is being usurped in many countries, including some of those named by my noble friend. With regard to increasing our focus on this, the noble Baroness will be aware of the work done through the diplomatic network, and I am already speaking to colleagues across DfID, and in the Ministry of Defence, to ensure that those deployed to our international posts are well versed in the local challenges on this important priority.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, has the Minister noted the 40% increase in religious hate crimes in the United Kingdom between 2017 and 2018? In that context, does he feel it appropriate that Tommy Robinson was entertained in the Lords by a Member of this House?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

On the second point, I do not think that it is right. We need to take a long hard look at ourselves as a House, and I am sure that the House authorities have been alerted to the presence of the said individual. The views he expresses are not just appalling for the community he targets—we are all, rightly, appalled. It is important that we review our procedures to ensure that individuals such as Tommy Robinson do not enter the heart of democracy. I am minded, however, to defer that to the House authorities.

On the important issue of rising religious hatred and hate crime, I think we all stand united against it. We have seen an increase in anti-Semitism. I have spoken out very strongly on that, and I think that I represent many in this House in speaking out, whether it is against anti-Semitism, Islamophobia, anti-Muslim hatred or any form of religious hate crime. Regrettably and tragically, there are people in our society who target us—those who have spoken out—for that very reason. It is important that we unite against this and that a clear and unequivocal statement comes from this House, from the Houses of Parliament and from the country as a whole, to those who seek to divide us: “We are united against you, and we will defeat you”.

[Baroness Bryan of Partick (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that each and every one of us in this House shares the responsibility to ensure good racial and interfaith relationships, and that this House has a specific responsibility to ensure that its own estates are not used in that way?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am sure, as I said earlier to the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, that the House authorities have taken note. I also agree, however, with the premise of the noble Baroness that each of us has a responsibility. We need to raise the bar: no longer should it be about tolerance; it is about respect and understanding, and that is what we should be promoting.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that freedom of religion and belief is an absolute right, and that it would become more of a reality if we, and other leading countries, put aside considerations of trade and so-called strategic interests in its pursuit?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The strategic relationships that we have around the world are important—indeed, the Statement I made yesterday reflected that—but I assure the noble Lord, and your Lordships’ House, that human rights in the broad sense are an important consideration and priority in the relationships we build across the world.

[Baroness Eaton (Con)]

Will my noble friend the Minister work with FCO and DfID country heads to produce a country-specific strategy for promoting freedom of religion and belief?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend makes a very practical and useful suggestion, and I am looking at my new role to see whether we can provide that kind of country detail.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I strongly associate myself and the rest of these Benches with the remarks of the Minister in respect of the person who attended this place last night. We strongly support his attempts to stop that kind of behaviour. We do all have a responsibility. One of the things that happened at CHOGM was a conference at Lambeth Palace, involving religious leaders and politicians. Can the Minister tell us a bit more about what progress has been made since CHOGM? It is not simply a matter of Governments; it is about all community leaders and faith leaders taking the initiative.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord raises an important point, and we of course welcomed the progress at CHOGM. I have continued to work closely with Lambeth Palace and other faith leaders as well. I am working closely with the Vatican, through Archbishop Gallagher, and I recently met His Highness the Aga Khan. We are looking across the piece with leaders from different faith communities, and from humanist societies as well, to ensure that we can work together as one on this important priority.

Intermediate-Range Nuclear Forces Treaty

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 24th October 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask a Question of which I have given private notice.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we are aware of the statements made by the United States on the future of the INF treaty. However, it is important to recognise that the United States has not formally withdrawn from the treaty. While the treaty remains in force the United Kingdom will continue to support it and, in particular, to press Russia to return to full and verifiable compliance. We, of course, want to see the treaty continue to stand, but that requires all parties to abide by it and at the moment one side is in violation. Russia needs to respect its obligations as this treaty has made a valuable contribution to European security for over 30 years.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, the greatest existential threat to our people and nation is a miscalculation during a period of increasing tension, leading to an ill-thought-through use of a nuclear weapon. Indeed, Putin’s strategy of de-escalation posits early use of a nuclear weapon. The repudiation of the INF treaty—and let us face it, these weapons can hit us all in Europe but they cannot hit America—and the breakdown of US/Russian relations bring this existential threat to our nation, the only existential threat that is there, much closer. I think all of us should be extremely concerned.

Will we bend every sinew to try to get Trump and Putin in the margins of the number of meetings that they are having over the next few months to relook at a whole raft of limitation treaties and possibly renegotiate an intermediate-range treaty, a ballistic treaty and also an arms reduction set of treaties? Only in that way will we ease back on this risk of an existential threat to our people.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord speaks from great experience in this respect. I assure him that the United Kingdom will do all within its power to ensure that this treaty is sustained and strengthened. But it is a bilateral treaty between the United States and Russia and one party—Russia—has not complied. The other positive note in this respect is that, as the noble Lord will know, at the last NATO meeting in July all NATO partners stressed the importance of sustaining this treaty. It has kept the peace for more than 30 years, and that is evidence of its importance.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, by leaving the treaty the US has no way of pressuring Russia into compliance. The Minister is right about the need to ensure compliance. With the New START treaty on strategic arms due to end in 2021, we could be left with no limits on the arsenals of nuclear states for the first time since 1972. So my noble friend is absolutely right to raise this critical issue. Will the Minister tell us what conversations we had with our ally the United States and whether the United States consulted any of its European allies on this question before making this announcement?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble Lord mentioned the New START treaty. It is important to recognise that major strides have been made in de-escalation and the destruction of missiles. That treaty remains on the books. Both sides are complying with it, and we will continue to work to ensure that it is sustained. On this treaty, we all heard the US President make the announcement. The issue of Russia’s non-compliance was not new to the NATO alliance. It was reflected in the communiqué in July. The noble Lord will also be aware that subsequent to the discussions a member of the US Administration recently visited Russia, and we hope that productive discussions will come from that. We continue to work very closely with the United States and other NATO allies to ensure that our efforts over the past 30 years are not just sustained but strengthened.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

Will the Minister answer the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, about consultation? It is surely rather important that there was some consultation—perhaps there was not—because countries in Europe who are in the alliance are much more in the firing line than the United States. Can he say whether the United States consulted us or any other European allies—and, if so, what opinion did we offer?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I think I have partly answered the second part of the noble Lord’s question. The US has not withdrawn from the treaty. President Trump announced an intention to withdraw. On consultation prior to him making that announcement, this was discussed at the last NATO meeting, so American concerns about the treaty came as no surprise. On the specific question of the announcement, we were informed subsequently, but the material issue of the non-compliance of Russia was not new to the US or to any NATO ally.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

Will my noble friend tell the House whether there is any evidence that Russia has been breaking the treaty, and to what extent? If there are now a great many more weapons capable of being aimed at Europe or anywhere else, that is quite disturbing.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

It is not just the United Kingdom: all NATO allies have long-standing concerns about Russia’s deployment of a range of new capabilities that undermines strategic stability in Europe specifically. Returning to the point made by the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord West, that this issue of is primary importance to Europe, I assure my noble friend that, acting together as NATO, we will continue to pressure Russia to ensure that all treaties that have been signed are not only respected but strengthened.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, is the Minister concerned about the erosion of nuclear arms control, as evidenced by this statement of intent by President Trump following his determination to resile from the nuclear arms deal? Added to that is the uncertainty about the renewal of the Strategic Arms Reduction Treaty. In all those circumstances, what prospects does this demonstrate to us for the review conference in 2020 of the nuclear non-proliferation treaty? What work are the Government already embarking on in relation to that review?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord raises an important point about the renewal of that treaty. I assure him that we are working across NATO to ensure not only that the principles of that treaty are sustained but that the peace that we have seen on the continent through the de-escalation and reduction of weapons of all kinds—both nuclear and others—is not just sustained but maintained. There is a concern that I have already alluded to. In recent years we have seen Russia’s non-compliance and concerns about its technology-enabled development of new capabilities. It is right that NATO stands firm against this and we will continue to work very closely with NATO allies including—importantly—the United States.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister appears to have conceded that this was yet another surprise unilateral announcement by the President, without consultation with allies. But the President was right in one respect: things have moved on since this bilateral treaty. China is outside the treaty. Are there any prospects at all of engaging China in any form of treaty similar to the INF?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord talks again about the concerns of the United States, which are about not just China but North Korea and other countries that are not subject to such bilateral agreements and are therefore outside the remit of such a treaty. It is important to recognise that, in the world we live in today, there is a real need to acknowledge that different alliances need to be strengthened and that some countries are developing certain technologies in this area. The important task is to ensure that our dialogue, along with our partners, is sustained not just with Russia but elsewhere. Indeed, we are encouraged—certainly when it came to the discussions between the United States and North Korea—by the agreements that have been reached on the de-escalation of various capabilities in that region of Asia.

Jamal Khashoggi

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 23rd October 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat a Statement made in the other place yesterday evening by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs. The Statement is as follows:

“Mr Speaker, with your permission, I will make a Statement on the death of Jamal Khashoggi. From the moment that he was reported missing after entering the Saudi consulate in Istanbul on 2 October, extremely disturbing reports emerged about his fate. On Friday, we received confirmation that Mr Khashoggi had indeed suffered a violent death, and the Saudi Foreign Minister has since described it as murder. The Government condemn his killing in the strongest possible terms. Today, the thoughts and prayers of the whole House are with his fiancée, his family and his friends, who were left to worry for more than two weeks, only to have their worst fears confirmed. After his disappearance, the Government made it clear that Saudi Arabia must co-operate with Turkey and conduct a full and credible investigation. Anyone found responsible for any offence must be held fully accountable.

On top of our concerns about the appalling brutality involved lie two other points. First, Mr Khashoggi’s horrific treatment was inflicted by people who work for a Government with whom we have close relations; and secondly, as well as being a critic of the Saudi Government, he was a journalist. At the time of his death, Mr Khashoggi wrote for the Washington Post and had contributed to the Guardian. Because in this country we believe in freedom of expression and a free media, the protection of journalists who are simply doing their job is of paramount concern. On 9 October, I conveyed this message to the Saudi ambassador in person and to the Saudi Foreign Minister by telephone. I instructed the British ambassador in Riyadh to emphasise our strength of feeling to the Saudi Government at every level. Last week, my right honourable friend the International Trade Secretary cancelled his attendance at a forthcoming conference in Riyadh. On 17 October, I met Fred Ryan, the chief executive of the Washington Post, and I spoke again to the Saudi Foreign Minister this weekend.

On Friday, the Saudi Government released the preliminary findings of their investigation. They later announced the arrest of 18 people and the sacking of two senior officials, which is an important start to the process of accountability. But I will say frankly to this House that the claim that Mr Khashoggi died in a fight does not amount to a credible explanation. There remains an urgent need to establish exactly what happened on 2 October and thereafter.

The incident happened on Turkish soil, so it is right that the investigation is being led by the Government of Turkey. They now need to establish who authorised the dispatch of 15 officials from Saudi Arabia to Turkey; when the Government in Riyadh first learned of Mr Khashoggi’s death; why there was a delay in allowing Turkish investigators to enter the consulate; and why it took until 19 October to disclose that Mr Khashoggi had died 17 days earlier. This matters because only after a full investigation will it be possible to apportion responsibility and ensure that any crimes are punished following proper process.

Last week, I spoke to both my French and German counterparts, and the House will have noticed the strong statement jointly released by Britain, France and Germany. The actions Britain and our allies take will depend on two things: first, the credibility of the final explanation given by Saudi Arabia; and secondly, our confidence that such an appalling episode cannot—indeed, will not—be repeated. We will, of course, wait for the final outcome of the investigation before making any decisions.

Honourable Members know that we have an important strategic partnership with Saudi Arabia, involving defence and security co-operation, which has saved lives on the streets of Britain. We also have a trading partnership that supports thousands of jobs. While we have been thoughtful and considered in our response, I have also been clear that, if the appalling stories we are reading turn out to be true, they are fundamentally incompatible with our values, and we will act accordingly. Indeed, such reports are also incompatible with Saudi Arabia’s own stated goal of progress and renewal. That is why the extent to which Saudi Arabia is able to convince us that it remains committed to that progress will ultimately determine the response of the United Kingdom and its allies, and we will continue to convey our strength of feeling on this issue to every level of the Saudi leadership.

In his final column, published in the Washington Post after his death, Jamal Khashoggi lamented the lack of freedom of expression in the Arab world. Let us make sure that the lessons learned and actions taken following his death at least progress and honour his life’s work. I commend this Statement to the House”.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, I join in the condemnation of what has happened and the way it has been covered up by the Saudis for the first two weeks. I congratulate the Government on the withdrawal of Liam Fox’s participation in the forthcoming investment conference—although it seemed unfortunate that it was not announced earlier. We waited until a number of other Governments and companies had announced their withdrawal before finally we withdrew too.

We on these Benches recognise the importance of our relationship with Saudi Arabia and with the other Gulf states, although I recall that one of the many tensions inside the coalition was that many of us on the Liberal Democrat side felt that some of our Conservative colleagues were too close, personally and politically, to the Gulf autocracies and the Saudi royal family, and too hostile to Iran. We need as a Government to maintain a balance in Middle East politics which does not entirely follow the hard Saudi line and cut the Iranian Government out, complicated although that is.

I join the Lord, Lord Collins, in remarking that indirect involvement in the Yemen war by supporting Saudi armed forces and supplying weapons for delivery in Yemen has to some extent compromised our position in international relations. We talk about the importance of our economic relationship, but that relationship is overwhelmingly dependent on arms sales. The long-term question hanging over that is: who is dependent on whom when you have that sort of one-sided relationship?

I welcome and support the Government’s announcement of their joint position with the French and German Governments. Clearly, British influence is maximised when we work with others. I see from the Financial Times this morning that the German Government have announced a suspension of arms sales. Have we discussed parallel action with them, and have the British Government yet considered whether they should join the Germans in suspending arms sales until this is sorted out?

There is a slightly surreal element in hearing day by day, as we did yesterday in the Prime Minister’s Statement, the Government reporting with strong approval that we have achieved a joint agreement with our French and German allies on this, that or the other—the Prime Minister’s Statement did that in two places—while at the same time the Foreign Secretary describes the European Union as like the Soviet Union, from which we must escape, and a number of Conservative Ministers, and more Conservative MPs, regard the European Union as fundamentally hostile to Britain.

How one has a foreign policy with any degree of coherence when such contradictions are deeply embedded is a little beyond my understanding. The incoherence of British policy on the Middle East is only part of the incoherence of British foreign policy as a whole. The alternative—following the US lead, rather than co-operating with our European partners—seems to us on these Benches even more doubtful under President Trump, in particular given some of the close links between the Trump family and the Saudi Arabian royal family.

This was an attack on a journalist, as the Minister said. There are many other attacks on journalists in the world and, sadly, there have been three murderous attacks on journalists that I can think of in three different European Union member countries in the past two years. I hope that the Government, in their commitment to a free media and a free press, will attempt to maintain our standards on issues arising from other attacks on journalists around the world. I remind the Minister—I am sure that he is aware—that in a campaign speech in the west of the United States last week, President Trump praised a Congressman who had violently assaulted a British Guardian journalist at one of his meetings. Encouragement of violence against journalists by the American President is extremely dangerous to democracy. Are the British Government considering making that point at the highest possible level in the US Administration?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I thank both noble Lords for their statements. I appreciate that Members of this House, and of the other place, stand together in solidarity to ensure that the tragic victim of this murder ultimately sees true justice, and in condolence and support for his family and friends. Noble Lords will appreciate that recent events are moving very quickly. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, referred to the statement made earlier today by President Erdogan of Turkey, in which he revealed some further information about their investigation. The full report has yet to be released, but I assure the noble Lord and your Lordships’ House that we fully support the Turkish investigation into this case. In the representations made by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, our ambassador to Riyadh and others, we have consistently reminded the Saudi administration—at the highest level—of the need for their full co-operation with the investigation by the Turkish authorities. We continue to follow that very closely.

Having heard and read the statement this morning, I share the deep concerns expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Collins—and, I am sure, felt by every Member of your Lordships’ House—about the detail of what is unravelling. There has to be credibility in the Saudi statement. Looking back at the accounts over recent weeks, what started as a denial translated into an accidental attack when a fight ensued. The Saudi Foreign Minister has now admitted that it was a “murder”—that is his word. It is appropriate that we see the Turkish investigation present its full results.

In response to the points made about the UK’s position, I reiterate the point made by the Foreign Secretary. We are looking carefully at the full outcomes and there will be consequences once the report is released. The noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Wallace, rightly raised the issue of arms sales. In my capacity as Human Rights Minister, I have spoken from the Dispatch Box about the situation in Yemen. I am taking a close look at arms sales generally and drawing the attention of colleagues in the Foreign Office to the issue. The United Kingdom Government will look at all the response options currently available. Members in the other place raised the issue of the Magnitsky clauses in the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill. Noble Lords will know why we cannot enact these mechanisms until we leave the European Union. Both noble Lords mentioned sanctions policy and working with our European partners. I assure them that this is under discussion.

The noble Lord, Lord Wallace, raised the issue of working with EU partners. I reiterate the point made by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister. Practical progress is being made with our EU partners on our leaving the EU, but it is important to underline the importance of that relationship. Notwithstanding our differences in certain parts of the negotiation, we have stood firm when it matters. The noble Lord—and all noble Lords—will recall the time of the Iran nuclear deal, when Chancellor Merkel, Prime Minister May and President Macron issued a joint statement. It was entirely appropriate on the grave matter of the murder of Jamal Khashoggi, and we have again stood firm with Germany and France and issued a joint statement. That underlines the strength of our relationship with our European Union partners, notwithstanding our withdrawal from the EU.

The noble Lord, Lord Wallace, also rightly raised the issue of strategic partnership. We share much with Saudi Arabia: trade, defence and security, and intelligence. Much of that has also helped us to maintain a level of safety and security on our streets. However, the UK takes great pride in human rights, particularly the defence of journalists and their right to report freely and to criticise Governments and individuals within Governments. It is right that we stand up for those rights wherever they may be usurped. I assure noble Lords that that remains a key priority in my portfolio as Minister for Human Rights.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

Will my noble friend press the Saudi Government to produce the body for independent examination? They must know where it is, and once it has been inspected, we will all have a much clearer view as to how he died.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend raises an important point. I talked earlier about the situation of Jamal Khashoggi’s family, who for several weeks did not know what his fate was. I assure my noble friend that, with Turkey, we continue to press on this important issue. Indeed, President Erdogan also made this point during his statement earlier today. It is important now to ensure that the full facts of the murder can be brought to the fore. But equally, for the family’s sake more than anyone else’s, we appeal to whoever knows so that good common sense will prevail in this terrible affair and at least some closure can be brought to the family by the body being presented, so that Jamal Khashoggi can at least be given an appropriate funeral.

[Lord Adonis (Lab)]

My Lords, why do we not follow the German Government and suspend arms sales to Saudi Arabia?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As the noble Lord will know, the stated position from Germany is not a new one: it is a restatement by Chancellor Merkel of the statement she made earlier. Angela Merkel has been clear in reiterating that she will keep to that approach. As I said earlier in response to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Collins, we await the full outcome of the Turkish investigation and once we have all the facts in front of us, we will act accordingly.

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister said that it is important that a situation like this does not arise again. Does he recall that in quite a long BBC documentary, it was alleged that there were several other cases—not quite as dreadful as this—of people who were critical of the Saudi Arabian Government being kidnapped, taken back to Saudi Arabia and disappearing? Secondly, is the point the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, made not a good one? We talk about our close relationship, but as he said, who is dependent on whom depends on which way you look at it. Is there not a strong case that we ought to diversify our arms sales so that they are not so dependent—40%—on one country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

To take my noble friend’s second point first, I believe that the bilateral trade between our Governments stands at £9 billion. However, as he says, on the overall position of the UK and our trading relationships, notwithstanding the nature of the case we are discussing, it is important that we have a diversified view.

On his point about this never happening again, he is right to raise the tragic consequences of this. We repeatedly return to the issue of journalists and press freedom in your Lordships’ House, in the context not just of Saudi Arabia but of other countries as well. The important point in this case is what further steps we can take in this respect. The international condemnation which has followed this crime is clear for all to see. On the other steps we are taking that I can share with my noble friend, I mentioned earlier my capacity as Human Rights Minister, and we are reviewing the exact statements we will make and the questions we will raise in the universal periodic review of Saudi Arabia, which is due on 5 November in Geneva. I assure my noble friend that as a priority, we will raise with the Saudis in international fora the issue of press freedom and the freedom of journalists to criticise a country and an Administration. As to whether we can ensure that this will never happen again, that would be a tall claim for anyone to make. The tragic nature of these issues means that we must be strong in our condemnation, and when the full facts are presented, we must act accordingly.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware that we have some of the strictest rules about selling arms to any nations that apply to any countries in the world. Germany’s virtue signalling is all very good, but it would be selling almost no arms there anyway, and when one looks at some of the other sales they have made to other places, I would not get too excited about the virtue signalling.

This is a very difficult area. We have to be wary once we have made a decision to sell arms, having gone through all the hoops, about starting to tell people how they should use them. However, it is very important that there is transparency about exactly what we are doing in terms of support and training for Saudi Arabia. We have been rather secretive about this—for example, the Paras teaching them how to use mortars and so on. Does the Minister agree that we should be very open about exactly what we provide and then we can look at this in the round and make some sensible decisions in due course, rather than knee-jerk ones, about exactly how we go?

There is no doubt that this was a horrible crime. I have no doubt at all that there was advice from the very highest levels in Saudi Arabia. Indeed, it has form on this, as has been mentioned before. But we need to be really careful not to make knee-jerk reactions and to be transparent on what we actually provide.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord speaks from wide experience in this respect and I agree with him on principle. I fully support his position but what Germany exports and what is does is really a matter for the German Chancellor and Government. I have looked at the structure and support of arms sales. This was put in place by the very respected Robin Cook when he was Foreign Secretary. There are quite strict procedures in place to ensure that these weapons comply with international humanitarian law.

Notwithstanding that, the noble Lord will also be aware that our export licensing system also builds in flexibility to allow us to respond quickly to changing circumstances. Since 2015 we have suspended more than 331 licences. This is not a case of once agreed, never suspended. I agree with the noble Lord that we must be very careful to ensure that our response is considered, clear and unequivocal. We should act only, I stress again, once the full facts have been presented. As I said, we await the full facts from the Turkish investigation.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, following up the noble Lord’s Statement, we brought in legislation on arms sales, which this Government profess to comply with, saying that arms could not be sold to be used for external aggression or internal repression. External aggression is what the Saudis are doing in Yemen on a massive scale. We need to reset our relationship with Saudi Arabia, particularly in light of this barbaric murder. By the way, President Erdoğan championing journalistic freedom is something else.

Will the Minister consider the case for resetting the relationship with Saudi Arabia without turning our backs on an important strategic relationship in intelligence and defence terms? I understand that, having been a Middle East Minister. We should adopt a much more even-handed attitude in that region, especially between Riyadh and Tehran. We treat Iran as a pariah state but we treat the Saudis as brothers in arms. Maybe the Crown Prince took that and the signals from President Trump as giving him a blank cheque, as it were, to operate with impunity in a lawless way, as has clearly happened in Istanbul.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble Lord mentioned how Saudi Arabia has been acting and this crime in particular. The reaction to it and the changing position from the Saudi Government reflect the strength of opinion and representations made not just by the United Kingdom but others. It has resulted in the admittance that a crime—indeed, a murder—took place in the consulate in Istanbul. As I said, we await the full facts of what will be determined from the investigation by Turkey, which we fully support.

Picking up a thread from the earlier questions from the noble Lord, Lord West, about training and support, it is right that we provide support in terms of training to militaries across the world, as we do to the Saudi military. There is an advantage in doing this because we share elsewhere the values and the strong sense of training deployed by our troops, which stress the importance of international humanitarian law.

As for resetting relationships, the noble Lord acknowledged the importance of the strategic partnership, but lessons will be learned from this incident, which resulted in the murder of Jamal Khashoggi. As I said, once all the facts have been presented, the United Kingdom Government will consider them very carefully and act accordingly.

[Lord Jay of Ewelme (CB)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a member of the Thomson Reuters supervisory board. Does the Minister agree that many journalists around the world operate constantly in extremely difficult and dangerous circumstances? Will he confirm that, not just in multilateral organisations but in our regular contacts with the Governments of countries that do not treat journalists as they should, he and his colleagues will emphasise the need for journalists to be treated properly and safely?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Let me assure the noble Lord and the whole of your Lordships’ House that we do—and will continue to do—exactly that. The noble Lord, Lord Hain, mentioned Turkey. It is because of the equity of our relationship with Turkey and the strength of our strategic partnership—which I am sure noble Lords will have followed in the broader context of defending human rights—that we have seen some dividend from our representations through the channels we have, including the release, albeit on bail, of several members of Amnesty International in particular. We continue to raise these issues, including in private. But there is a time, and you have to strike that balance. Many noble Lords will know exactly the point I am making: you have to strike that balance between private diplomacy, on which the United Kingdom prides itself, and public accountability. The case of Jamal Khashoggi is a time for public accountability.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, it is difficult to think of a more difficult foreign policy issue that the Government must now face. I cannot think of anything as serious from all my time as either a Member of Parliament or a Member of your Lordships’ House. Difficult circumstances and challenges often give rise to opportunities, however. The noble Lord, Lord Hain, put his finger on it when he said that this is an opportunity to reset our relationship, not just with Saudi Arabia but with other countries in the Middle East to which we have for many years adopted approximately the same attitudes and positions.

I shall make two other, perhaps unrelated, points. What could be more sinister than the fact that among the 15 who came to the consulate was a forensic pathologist? What possible purpose was he meant to serve by being part of the 15? I think we could all make a pretty good guess.

On the other hand, the Minister rightly referred to the intelligence relationship. When he was Prime Minister, David Cameron publicly—surprisingly but, in the circumstances, he thought necessarily—acknowledged that information provided by the Saudi Arabian Government directly prevented an enormously difficult and potentially very damaging terrorist outrage in this country. It is the balancing of these two issues that gives rise to the Government’s difficulty. However, I take the view that as soon as all the necessary information is available a judgment must be made—but I would in no way support the notion that we should conduct a running commentary or offer a step-by-step approach. We need to deal with this matter as a whole, once a proper judgment has been reached.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with much, if not all, that the noble Lord has raised. It is important to look at the strength of our relationship. I also agree with the noble Lord, Lord Hain. As I mentioned in my closing remarks in repeating the Statement, this is also an opportunity for defining. We must take seriously our responsibilities as an international player on the global stage when our friends—and Saudi Arabia is a friend—commit actions by which we are all appalled, as we have seen in the case of Jamal Khashoggi. Families have suffered the tragic consequences of the actions of these individuals. It is important that, as a friend, we consider the full facts as they emerge and once they have been given. It is also appropriate, because of the influence that we have with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, that we seek to influence that relationship in a positive way.

This situation is a step back, I fear, from the visit of the Crown Prince, which heralded Vision 2030 and new beginnings. As the Prime Minister’s Special Envoy on Freedom of Religion or Belief, I was heartened by the fact that the Crown Prince visited the Coptic Cathedral on his way to London and had a meeting at Lambeth Palace. These were the beginnings of positive signs. It is tragic that we see this situation emerging, but it is important that we take stock. The noble Lord also raised the importance of our influence in countries such as Egypt, Kuwait, Oman and elsewhere in the Middle East. The United Kingdom not only has a voice, it has a strong influencing voice, and we should seek to leverage that, particularly in the context of the Gulf Cooperation Council.

[Lord Judd (Lab)]

My Lords, in the Statement the Government emphasised heavily that what happened was totally irreconcilable with British values and principles. Does the Minister not agree that there is a real credibility problem—again—for us in this context? Must we not be very careful that throughout all the deliberations that may now ensue we do not begin to water down and rationalise away the need sometimes for firm and decisive action? This deed, as we all agree, was horrific— but all over the world, as we have heard, brave journalists are standing up for freedom, democracy, enlightenment and truth. When this is jeopardised it is a fundamental challenge to everything we stand for in this society. Surely this has happened in this situation and we must be determined to take whatever action is necessary, even at some cost to ourselves.

On the arms point specifically, is it not madness to see the arms industry as part of our general export drive? We should export arms only to close allies or those who really do demonstrate—on controversial and important issues—a total commitment to our values; otherwise, we are playing with fire in the end-use situation, to which reference has already been made, which has shown over and again that we are not in control of the situation.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord makes powerful points. On the general point about arms exports, it is right that when we look at our relationships—we have all been clear that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is an ally; it has been an important ally in terms of security co-operation in the Middle East and it continues to be so—we set the criteria when it comes to arms sales and ensure that they are adhered to, and that issues of international humanitarian law are upheld. I will be frank: we have seen appalling situations and occasions during the war in Yemen, which have resulted in the loss of many innocent lives. I am appalled when I see buses of young children being blown up as a consequence of that war. It is important that we strengthen our voice in ensuring that the values we share are also shared by our allies, and we will continue to make that case. But the structures that have been set up for those arms sales are an important check and balance in ensuring that those important principles are sustained.

When it comes to acting accordingly, I assure noble Lords that our Government—and I have been in close contact with my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary on this issue—are not taking this in any way lightly. The Statement detailed the number of engagements we have had directly—and continue to have—with Saudi counterparts. It is appropriate. I am sure that when they reflect on this noble Lords will agree that it is important that we have all the facts in front of us so that, once the investigation has been completed, we can consider what appropriate action can be taken.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, when the full facts are known, would it not be appropriate that we act not just as the United Kingdom working with our friend and ally—as the Minister called Saudi Arabia—but with France and Germany, as we have done previously in negotiations with Iran? We work better as a threesome than individually, and that would enable us to be more influential than if we were simply to act alone.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I will answer the noble Baroness’s question in two parts. Yes, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is a friend and ally. It is because of the strength of the relationship we have that we can make the representations that we do. That bilateral relationship is important and will continue to be so, whatever decisions we choose to make. The noble Baroness’s second point was on working together with European allies. As I have already demonstrated, notwithstanding the stance taken by the United States on Iran, the Foreign Secretary issued his first statement on this very issue in line with, and after consulting, France and Germany.

Jammu and Kashmir: Human Rights Abuses

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 23rd July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hussain]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they will take to assist the implementation of the recommendations of the report published on 14 June by the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights concerning human rights abuses in Jammu and Kashmir to hold an independent international inquiry to investigate abuses.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we raise our concerns about the human rights situation in India-administered Kashmir and Pakistan-administered Kashmir with the Governments both in New Delhi and in Islamabad. We note the concerns raised in the report by the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights, and we encourage all states to uphold human rights in line with their international obligations and to co-operate with the Office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights.

[Lord Hussain (LD)]

I thank the Minister for that Answer. According to this United Nations human rights report on Kashmir, serious human rights violations took place between July 2016 and April 2018. Some 145 civilians have allegedly been killed, and the report denounces the lack of prosecutions of Indian forces in Jammu and Kashmir due to the 1990 law known as the Armed Forces (Jammu and Kashmir) Special Powers Act which gives them virtual impunity. Can the Minister tell us what Her Majesty’s Government can do to persuade the Indian Government to withdraw such draconian laws from Kashmir so that those responsible for these violations can be brought to justice, at least under Indian law?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure the noble Lord that we continue to raise the importance of the issues in Kashmir with the Indian Government. In one of my visits towards the end of last year, I raised the issue of Kashmir and the need for Pakistan and India to find a resolution to this long-standing issue. Equally, with reference to the report and the importance of some of its findings, we encourage all states, including India and Pakistan, to respond positively to the request by the UN—in this case, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights—to a right to visit.

[Lord Paul (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, both India and Pakistan are very active members of the United Nations. Will the Government say what purpose it will serve to discuss this point here?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Her Majesty’s Government, as the noble Lord has rightly said, are a friend to both Governments—India and Pakistan. Our position remains that it is primarily for India and Pakistan to come together. They are countries tied together by history, culture and families. Indeed, my parents herald from India and my wife’s parents herald from Pakistan. Communities and families can come together. Perhaps I am living proof of that.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, we have a very proud record of defending human rights, particularly in countries such as Pakistan and India. What is of concern to me when we object to abuses of human rights, particularly the use of the death penalty, is that we now have a Government who are saying that it is okay to extradite people to a country where they might end up suffering capital punishment. Does the Minister agree with that assessment and the impact it might have when we try to defend other people from capital punishment?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, first, I am greatly humbled and honoured to be the Minister for Human Rights. Indeed, prior to coming to your Lordships’ House, I launched our human rights report, which again reflects its importance, our priorities and the key role that the United Kingdom plays in standing up for the broad spectrum of human rights across the world. The noble Lord raised the death penalty; I assure him and the House that the Government’s position remains the same.

[Lord Ahmed (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, will the Minister agree that it is the exact job of this House to discuss human rights in all places around the world? We are a permanent member of the Security Council. We have responsibilities to defend and to protect human rights around the world. Further to what the noble Lord, Lord Hussain, said, in 2009 the International People’s Tribunal on Human Rights reported that nearly 3,000 unmarked graves were found and 8,000 people are missing because of forced disappearances. Surely there is a responsibility for us to discuss that. While we should encourage India and Pakistan to resolve the issue, we should also condemn those violations of human rights.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

We are, of course, members of the United Nations and, as the noble Lord said, we are a permanent member of the Security Council. There are various resolutions on the broad issue of human rights. Most recently, as penholders, we have been leading the way on the Rohingya Muslims in Burma. On the specific issue of Kashmir, as we have said before—it has been a long-standing position of Governments on both sides—the Simla accords of 1972 act as the basis for bilateral discussions. I know the region of Kashmir. It was termed a paradise on earth. We hope that both countries can find noble cause to restore that label of paradise on earth.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, I return to the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Hussain. He drew attention to the draconian laws that protect people against prosecution for human rights abuse. As a member of the UN and the UN Security Council, is it not incumbent on us to condemn that sort of behaviour without fear or favour? Will the noble Lord agree with me and with the human rights activist Andrei Sakharov, who said that there can never be peace in the world unless we are even-handed in our condemnation of human rights abuse?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Let me assure the noble Lord that we encourage all states, including India and Pakistan, to uphold their international human rights obligations. Any allegations of human rights violations or abuses are concerning and must be investigated thoroughly, promptly and transparently. Let me once again reassure all noble Lords that we continue to raise the issue of Kashmir, including human rights issues, with the Governments of India and Pakistan. We stand resolute. We hope that a progressive way forward on this issue can be found for both countries and, as a friend to both, we will be supportive.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister note the accusation in the report that India has used disproportionate force and that no successful cases have been brought against its forces, including over the accusation of mass rape, and that Pakistan must also address human rights abuses on its side? Should not the UK play a more active role in taking forward what the commission suggests, which is a proper investigation of what has happened on both sides?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Let me assure the noble Baroness that we have of course noted the concerns about Kashmir expressed in the report by the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights and its recommendations, as the noble Baroness said, for the Governments of both India and Pakistan to consider. Therefore, we encourage both states to uphold human rights in line with their human rights obligations. In terms of any resolutions that come forward at the Human Rights Council, we will respond accordingly.

[Lord Tomlinson (Lab)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Tebbit]

My Lords, as a victim of terrorism myself, I am always a supporter of the victims, not the terrorists. Therefore, I hope that the newspaper reports of today that the Home Secretary has given the nod to the American authorities to prosecute some particularly vile terrorists and leave them to face the penalty laid down by the democratic country of the United States of America are correct.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I am sure that I speak for every Member of your Lordships’ House in saying that we all stand on the side of victims of terrorism, wherever they are in the world. We stand on the principle of bringing justice to the victims of terror, wherever they may be. Equally, let me reiterate the UK Government’s position: that wherever justice is found, including for the victims of wars that have taken place in Syria and, before that, in Iraq, we stand resolute and committed to the principle of our international obligation to oppose the death penalty across the world.

British Overseas Territories: Same-Sex Marriage

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 23rd July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Barker]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to enable citizens to enter into a same-sex marriage in British Overseas Territories.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon)]

My Lords, we are pleased that the British Antarctic Territory, the British Indian Ocean Territory, the Falkland Islands, Gibraltar, the Pitcairn Islands, St Helena, Ascension, Tristan da Cunha, South Georgia and the South Sandwich Islands—I sound like a train announcer—have all taken steps to recognise and enable same-sex marriage. In the overseas territories where same-sex marriage is not currently recognised, we continue to engage constructively with both Governments and civil society to encourage and promote equality irrespective of gender or sexuality.

[Baroness Barker (LD)]

I thank the Minister for that detailed Answer. The United Kingdom Government imposed on overseas territories compliance with the international money laundering Act of 2018, even where there were not agreed international regulatory frameworks. The Government refuse to require all the overseas territories to respect the rights of LGBT citizens under the ECHR, with which they and we must be compliant. Why the double standard?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, first, I do not think that there is a double standard. The noble Baroness may recall my vociferous defence, as the Minister for the Overseas Territories, of the autonomy of the overseas territories, believing that it was right that they should continue to take forward the issue of the registers, as they were doing quite progressively. However, the will of the other place was such that the will of Parliament was upheld by the Government. We would rather not have been in that position. On this issue, we continue to respect the autonomy. However, at the same time, I assure the noble Baroness that we work very progressively. We have seen in recent developments in places such as Bermuda how the courts domestically are reacting to the importance of progressing this issue.

[Lord Cashman (Lab)]

My Lords, I know that the Minister is both personally and politically committed to human rights and equality. Therefore, can he help me out? According to the most recent White Paper on the overseas territories, published in 2012, the UK Government assume an obligation in relation to good governance of the territories, which includes the obligation,

“to ensure … just treatment and … protection against abuses”,

for the peoples of the territories. Therefore, can the Minister confirm that the peoples of the territories include LGBTI people? Notwithstanding his intention on behalf of the Government to engage, what concrete measures are they considering to ensure that LGBTI people can embrace and enjoy equality and human rights in conformity with the United Kingdom’s international legal obligations?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

First, on the latter point, I assure the noble Lord that we work very constructively with our British Overseas Territories to ensure that they comply with international obligations. Indeed, the progress we have seen in Bermuda is reflective of the fact that equality for all citizens, including members of the LGBT community, is safeguarded and that they will continue to be able to play a full and active role in the future. On the specific issue of equal marriage, as I said, we are engaging constructively and it remains the British Government’s position. The noble Lord mentioned the 2012 paper. The basis of that was to encourage and continue to support the overseas territories to make progress on this important issue directly themselves.

[Lord Naseby (Con)]

Will my noble friend confirm—and I declare an interest as vice-chairman of the all-party Cayman group—that, particularly in the Caribbean, a number of the overseas territories have their own constitution to deal with domestic matters? As I understand it, in their view the subject raised by this Question is a domestic issue. They have elected Members of Parliament. Those Parliaments debate these issues, and surely it is for those Parliaments, which after all represent the people living in those islands, to decide what is appropriate or not.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, as I have already said, of course we respect the rights of our British Overseas Territories to decide their own domestic issues, but it is also important that on issues of fairness the Government of the United Kingdom continue to hold constructive discussions, as we do in broader terms as well. I am minded to quote my right honourable friend the Prime Minister when she addressed this important issue in the context of the Commonwealth conference:

“As a family of nations we must respect one another’s cultures and traditions. But we must do so in a manner consistent with our common value of equality, a value that is clearly stated in the Commonwealth Charter ... Nobody should face persecution or discrimination because of who they are or who they love. And the UK stands ready to support any Commonwealth member wanting to reform outdated legislation that makes such discrimination possible”.


It is a constructive, progressive approach, and is the same approach that we adopt with our British Overseas Territories.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, in Her Majesty’s territories overseas we obviously have an obligation to uphold human rights, and it is a fundamental human right to be treated equally under the law. Of course, when the Minister read out that list, Bermuda would have been on it, because it did pass same-sex marriage laws. In fact, people were able to marry, and then we had that overturned. The Government cannot abrogate their responsibilities here, because it was agreed to by this Government and it should not have been. They should have upheld the rights of LGBT people. I declare an interest: I am actually half Bermudian, so when I go out there with my husband, will I be able to exercise the same rights? I hope the Minister will stand up for same-sex marriage in Bermuda.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord specifically mentioned Bermuda and he will know the history there. There was a referendum on both domestic partnerships and same-sex marriage, which the Bermudians did not accept in their vote. A decision was taken by the Supreme Court in advance which permitted same-sex marriage. That was overturned, as the noble Lord said, in the Parliament there to bring forward domestic partnership legislation which protects pension rights and other rights of same-sex couples. As to where we are with Bermuda, as the noble Lord will be aware, that legislation has been referred to the Supreme Court. The Government of Bermuda are appealing that decision, and, later this year, a determination will be made. We need to ensure, and it would be entirely appropriate—I am sure the noble Lord will respect this—that those local issues of justice are played out appropriately.

Freedom of Religion or Belief

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 19th July 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I draw attention to my interest as declared in the register.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, on 4 July, I was greatly honoured and humbled to be appointed by the Prime Minister as her special envoy on freedom of religion or belief. I assure noble Lords that I will continue to mobilise the diplomatic network to give due attention to this priority and to strengthen bilateral and international engagement as part of its diplomatic engagement with host Governments. I shall also work with parliamentary colleagues to ensure we leverage all expertise and experience, as well as strengthening collaboration with civil society and religious faith groups in pursuit of the common objective of protecting and strengthening freedom of religion or belief.

[Baroness Berridge]

I am sure your Lordships will wish to join me in congratulating my noble friend on his recent appointment, but might also share my concern that this adds to an existing seven areas of ministerial responsibility plus his being the Prime Minister’s special representative for preventing sexual violence in conflict. On 18 April, in your Lordships’ House, my noble friend Lady Stedman-Scott accepted that having two part-time staff in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office working on freedom of religion or belief was resource-light. Will my noble friend please outline what additional resources he has been allocated to fulfil this additional mandate?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I thank my noble friend for her kind words. I look forward to working with noble Lords across the House, which I know has immense expertise and experience in this respect and to strengthening our work in this area. My noble friend is right to draw our attention to resources. I assure her that, in taking on this role, my discussions with the Prime Minister and others were important. It is an important priority and, in that regard, I believe that my role as Minister for Human Rights will add strength to it. Having a ministerial office in support of an envoy role will also strengthen access. As for specific support, noble Lords will be pleased to hear that this is a cross-government initiative. I am delighted to announce that we will be getting additional resource through colleagues from the Department for International Development, who will support me in this important work. This is in addition to the existing resource at the Foreign Office. We will also be strengthening our focus on this important priority and post.

I am also delighted that I will be working on the domestic agenda, because it is important we strengthen our work in that area. It is entirely apt, therefore, that I am joined by my noble friend Lord Bourne, who, as many know, is the Minister for Faith and Communities in the Ministry of Housing, Communities and Local Government.

[The Lord Bishop of Southwark]

My Lords, I too extend my congratulations and those of the Lords spiritual to the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, on this appointment. Does he agree that in several countries of the Middle East, where the Christian faith has existed since the time of the apostles—Iraq, Syria and Egypt among them—the scale of persecution renders the condition of the remaining Christian communities one of great humanitarian priority?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I absolutely agree with the right reverend Prelate. I assure him that one of the primary motivations behind my right honourable friend appointing me to the role is exactly that: the increasing concern about the plight of Christian minorities across north Africa and the Middle East. There are always, however, glimmers of hope in that grey cloud. Recently, I visited Tunisia and Algeria. As the right reverend Prelate may know, because of our diplomatic efforts and those of others, Algeria has announced the reopening of two of the churches it had closed. As I arrived, I was pleased to be informed that a third church that had been closed has now been reopened. Christian minorities in that part of the world and beyond are an important priority and part of my role.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister has a long track record of upholding Article 18 of the Universal Declaration of Human Rights—the right to believe, not to believe or to change your belief—and I join others in the House in welcoming his appointment to this important role. Will he explain the difference to us between the idea of having a roving ambassador, which is the subject of the Question, and having an envoy? Given that the call for an ambassador on freedom of religion or belief was in the manifesto of both the Conservative Party and the Labour Party in the past, what is that difference? Where does it clash with ministerial responsibilities—for instance, upholding DfID policies or issues around declarations of genocide? How will the Minister’s responsibility as a Minister clash with those of the independence that is required a special envoy?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

First, having special envoy status strengthens the role. Many countries around the world have employed ambassadors and they continue to make representations to Governments. Being at the heart of government, I believe that I will be able to influence policy on exactly the kind of points and issues that the noble Lord raises. I assure him that I have represented this particular area in my wider brief as Minister for Human Rights, and the ability to influence the direction of policy and statements that are made is an immense privilege. To do that within government as well as being an envoy to the Prime Minister will, I believe, open further doors.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I completely accept the ability of the noble Lord to wear many hats and I think everyone in this House will admire the way that he has carried out his previous responsibilities. But the key here—he is absolutely right—is that it is a cross-Westminster, cross-departmental responsibility. Can he tell us a little more about how as a Minister for the Foreign and Commonwealth Office he will ensure that there is co-ordination across Westminster and Whitehall departments to ensure the effective implementation of this policy?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That is a very important question and I assure the noble Lord that that will happen both in terms of ministerial engagement and with officials. We are currently setting up the structures on a cross-departmental basis. There is already strong working between DfID and the Foreign Office. But I want to extend that further from a local government perspective in terms of the initiatives domestically and in education. In that regard, I shall be meeting my noble friends Lord Bourne and Lord Bates later today to discuss the framework. That ministerial engagement will happen on a regular basis.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, in congratulating the noble Lord, I also recognise the excellent work that his predecessors, including the noble Baronesses, Lady Warsi and Lady Anelay, from this House have done on inter-faith relations. I am glad that he recognises the links between the domestic agenda and the international agenda. Does he see part of his role to explain to significant foreign Governments the extent to which what happens in their countries spills over within Britain, whether it be the actions of fundamentalist Christian groups in the United States or fundamentalist Muslim groups in Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and elsewhere?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord speaks from his own wide experience and I pay tribute to his work during the coalition Government in this respect. He is of course right. I join in his acknowledgement of the role that both my predecessors, my noble friends Lady Anelay and Lady Warsi, played in strengthening this role. We should be proud of the fact that we in the UK have incredible diversity of communities, of faith and of those with no faith. That is not something that we hold back from. It is an incredible strength that we have in our incredible nation and we need to protect it.

It is right that we raise these important issues bilaterally with Governments elsewhere. But I also believe, as I said in my original Answer, that working with colleagues across your Lordships’ House and in the other place, strengthening the role of civil society and of faith players in what we do domestically and internationally, will be a vital part of how we can strengthen and consolidate our position on standing up for all beliefs and none, not just in the UK but around the world.

Sudan

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 28th June 2018 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I join all noble Lords in thanking my noble friend Lord Sheikh for tabling this important debate. I pay tribute to him for his continuing support for the development of relations between the United Kingdom and Sudan. I am pleased that he, together with other noble Lords, had a productive and constructive visit to Sudan, and I put on the record the thanks of Her Majesty’s Government to the APPG for its report and recommendations on this matter.

I shall now address the various questions raised by noble Lords in what has been a debate of hope and optimism, as well as one of challenge and realism. I turn, first, to the cultural and educational ties between our countries. Noble Lords have alluded to the population of Sudan. The median age in Sudan is under 20, more than half the population are under the age of 24, and nearly 40% are younger than 15. Therefore, picking up on a point raised by my noble friend Lord Sheik and others, education is vital if the country is to fulfil its full potential. The noble Baronesses, Lady Tonge and Lady Uddin, mentioned the importance of gender equality in education and opportunities for girls in particular. They and all noble Lords will be aware of the priority that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has laid on 12 years of quality education, which we continue to emphasise not just in our bilateral engagement with Sudan but across the world. That is why the British Council also runs projects that now train 4,600 teachers, improving the standards across science, maths and English of 6,500 teachers, and providing English textbooks at all levels in schools across the country.

In higher education, we provide opportunities for Sudan’s brightest young people to stretch themselves at world-class British universities. As was acknowledged by my noble friend Lord Sheikh and the noble Lord, Lord Collins, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office provides funding for Chevening scholarship programmes. The number of scholarships offered each year has tripled since 2014. The specific issue of numbers was raised, but in recent years the trajectory has been upward, and that will continue. More generally, the British Council encourages educational and scientific co-operation between Sudan and the UK, and promotes cultural ties through projects that include supporting the digitisation of Sudanese historical records, and refurbishing museums. That adds to growing stability in the country.

My noble friend Lord Sheikh raised the important issue of trade. Our bilateral trade is worth in the region of £90 million. I assure him that we are actively considering the best way to support business links between the UK and Sudan, and encouraging Sudan to make improvements to the business and regulatory environment to promote inward investment and improve Sudan’s economy. We welcome active contributions and further ideas from noble Lords, of course.

Let me be clear, however, that the UK is not prioritising trade over human rights, a subject raised by the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Chidgey. As the Human Rights Minister at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, I can say that improving human rights in Sudan continues to be a key priority of the UK’s bilateral engagement. Our human rights priorities will include respect for the rule of law, which will further people’s rights—especially women’s, as raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Tonge—and encourage investment. We believe strongly that trade can help to open up closed-off political and economic systems, and thereby improve human rights through the creation of wider employment opportunities.

I assure the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that we are very much committed on technical support for economic reforms in Sudan. That was discussed in detail at the fifth round of the UK-Sudan Strategic Dialogue in April, which I know that all noble Lords welcomed. The UK has been working with international partners to galvanise support to help Sudan commit to, and deliver, macroeconomic reforms while simultaneously managing the impact on the poorest in society.

In the immediate term, we are concerned at the increasingly acute economic issues that Sudan faces, including shortages of fuel, which we predict will affect the 2018 harvest. Concern about that was expressed by several noble Lords. We will of course continue to work with the Government of Sudan on the necessary macroeconomic reforms and wider reform programme. Our other main priorities in our engagement with Sudan are helping to resolve its conflict and addressing human rights concerns.

The challenges in Darfur were raised by the noble Lords, Lord Chidgey and Lord Hussain, among others. The security situation there remains fragile despite a recent reduction in fighting between government forces and armed movements. We remain concerned by continuing reports of clashes between the Sudan Liberation Army–Abdel Wahid—and government forces. I assure noble Lords that we continue to raise the matter bilaterally with Sudan, because it is important to recognise—as we all do—that civilians continue to bear the brunt of this appalling violence. Many have been killed, villages have been burned and it is estimated that nearly 9,000 have been internally displaced. The joint UN-African Union mission in Darfur is a key focus for that, and it is unacceptable that its humanitarian actors have been prevented from accessing affected populations.

We all acknowledge that there is no military solution to the conflict. The UK, alongside our troika partners—the United States and Norway—calls on all parties to immediately cease military action. The noble Lord, Lord Chidgey, mentioned Jebel Marra in this respect. We believe that all parties should engage meaningfully with the peace process. We are also working with international partners to provide humanitarian assistance to Darfur.

The noble Lord, Lord Sheikh, raised the issue of South Sudan and Sudan’s role in the peace process. We welcome Sudan’s role in hosting the latest round of talks in Khartoum and its constructive role within the region. We have taken note of the agreement.

The noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, raised the issue of East Sudan. I can assure him that we have not forgotten the people of the east, which remains a major challenge. DfID support is now focused on providing water infrastructure, which will benefit both the local communities and the refugee population that he mentioned, and we continue to provide wider humanitarian assistance.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, also raised the issue of South Sudanese refugees. I acknowledge the support Sudan has provided in this regard, both through the opening of humanitarian corridors and allowing those fleeing from that conflict to seek shelter, in the northern regions in particular.

On the humanitarian situation, in 2018 the number of people in need of humanitarian aid in Sudan has risen to over 7 million, and nearly 2 million are internally displaced in Darfur. Sudan is also providing shelter, as I have said, to many South Sudanese refugees. The UK is an important donor, and last year we provided nearly £60 million to help communities to meet their basic needs and to sustain their livelihoods and resilience to crisis. I shall write to the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, on the issue of the UNHCR and how much we have given, but we remain one of the largest contributors to the Sudan humanitarian fund.

The noble Baroness, Lady Tonge, raised the important issue of women’s health. As she may be aware, through DfID the UK continues to provide support to women and their families. We reached over 600,000 women, children and girls last year with nutrition and food interventions. She will be pleased to learn that we also fund projects to end the practice of FGM.

The UN’s peacekeeping mission in Darfur continues to make progress and to support the gradual reconfiguration of its mission. The noble Lords, Lord Sheikh and Lord Chidgey, mentioned extremism. Countering extremism will continue to figure in our strategic dialogue. Human rights will also be primarily focused on, including the issues of freedom of religion, freedom of expression and sexual and gender based violence. This was mentioned by the noble Lords, Lord Luce and Lord Collins.

We have seen real progress. For example, the case of Nora Hussein, has been a positive example. Her death sentence has been overturned, which we all welcome. The noble Lords, Lord Chidgey and Lord Collins, referred to positive influences, and that is one of them. We also welcome the release of Dr Ibrahim.

Specific questions of detail were raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Tonge, on the issues of equality and ensuring greater support for women and girls. I can assure her that that remains a key priority for the Government.

The noble Lord, Lord Luce, raised the issue of the 2020 elections. We agree that these will be a critical milestone in Sudan’s reform process. Former President Mbeki, who leads the AU’s peace process, is focused on enabling the opposition to participate in a fair way. The UK expects, and will continue to lobby for, monitoring arrangements to be a part of this process.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Tonge and Lady Uddin, rightly focused on many issues around girls’ education and health and on ensuring protection for women under the rule of law. I assure them, as the Prime Minister’s special representative on preventing sexual violence in conflict situations, we will continue to encourage Sudan to ratify the convention on the elimination of all forms of discrimination against women, and we will continue to employ a greater level of support for equality in all levels of education.

This has been a constructive and positive debate. Too often when we draw attention to different parts of the world there is great negativity and no recognition of the positive steps that have been achieved. All contributions from noble Lords have underlined the importance of progress and the need to be vigilant in ensuring that progress continues to be made. The UK welcomed the US decision last year to permanently lift economic sanctions. However, debt relief can only realistically be expected to come after Sudan demonstrates real evidence of macroeconomic reform. The UK is now assessing whether there is sufficient commitment by the Sudanese Government to make the necessary reforms. We will continue to champion this through dialogue, including an emphasis on women’s rights.

I assure all noble Lords that we will continue to work constructively on progress in Sudan. We will continue to observe constructive engagement in all areas, which can, over time, lead to greater security, stability and prosperity for all Sudanese people.