Saudi Arabia and Iran
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts(8 years, 3 months ago)
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The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)
My Lords, we urge the de-escalation of tensions in the Middle East. The Foreign Secretary condemned the attempted missile strike on Riyadh and expressed concern that Lebanon should not be used for a proxy conflict. He has spoken to the Saudi Arabian, Iranian and Lebanese Governments. The Minister for the Middle East, my right honourable friend Alistair Burt, expressed concern over reports that Iran provided the Houthis in Yemen with ballistic missiles. We are encouraging the Saudi-led coalition to ensure that humanitarian access remains open.
Lord Luce (CB)
My Lords, bearing in mind that Iran and Saudi Arabia are important regional powers, does the Minister agree that their present relationship, involving proxy wars, could at any moment spark a wider conflict in the whole region, between Yemen and Lebanon, thus bringing hell on earth to an even greater number of long-suffering people in the Middle East? Bearing in mind Britain’s long-standing relationship and friendship with the Gulf countries and our active participation in the Iran nuclear agreement, will the Government take a much more vigorous lead with the international community, including countries such as Germany and France and perhaps Asian countries, to persuade these two important countries that it is in all our interests—including that of the United States—that Iran and Saudi Arabia should embark on a sustained dialogue to help build a more peaceful Middle East?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
I agree with the sentiments of the noble Lord, who knows the region well. I think I speak for everyone in your Lordships’ House and beyond when I say that we wish to see a resolution not just of the conflict in Yemen, where innocent civilians in particular are suffering, but of any conflict between Iran and Saudi Arabia, which is worrying not just to the region but to the whole world. This conflict is tribally based and has not just arisen since the regime took over in Iran in 1979; it is a deep-rooted, embedded conflict which goes back to the division in Islam between the Sunni and Shia communities. I assure the House that Her Majesty’s Government are using all means available to us to make bilateral representations. We remain very supportive of the nuclear deal with Iran. We are using all good offices to ensure, first and foremost, that the suffering of those in Yemen can be brought to a halt. Ensuring free access for United Nations and other agencies will be a first step in providing humanitarian relief to civilians in Yemen.
Lord Hain
My Lords, does the Minister accept that we have to adopt a much more even-handed stance between Tehran and Riyadh in order to resolve the toxic instability afflicting the entire Gulf/Middle East region? We are seen to be allies of Saudi Arabia—I do not dispute the need for that—and to take the side of Saudi Arabia and the Sunni Muslim faith against Iran and the Shia Muslim faith. We need to be equal-handed between the two in order to end the proxy wars in Yemen, Lebanon, increasingly, Syria and Iraq.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
I assure the noble Lord that we support the work that Saudi Arabia has done in the region. The stance we have taken on recent events regarding the Iranian nuclear deal shows the importance the UK attaches to bringing stability to the wider region. As for the two branches of Islam, let us not forget that there are 73 branches of Islam and Her Majesty’s Government are neutral in our interpretation of all of them.
Lord Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon
My Lords, I apologise to the noble Lord and to the House for seeking to blunder in ahead of him; it was most inappropriate. Even allowing for the fact of jihadist terrorism, is not the greatest threat to peace coming from the Middle East now the imminent danger of a conflict between the Sunnis and the Shias, led by Saudi Arabia and Tehran, in which the West is backing one side and Russia the other? In the light of this, is it not foolish for the United Kingdom Government to be supporting, tacitly and with arms, Saudi Arabia while it is committing such clearly illegal acts in Yemen?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
First, as the noble Lord knows, the UK is not directly involved with the Saudi-led coalition. He talks about alliances, and of course the alliance between the United Kingdom and Saudi Arabia is an important one. But at the same time—I have made this point clearly already—we believe very strongly that peace and stability in the region requires both Iran and Saudi Arabia to resolve their differences and move forward in a positive vein. This is not about taking one side over the other. We make sure that any representations we make—including to the Saudis—on concerns we have, particularly about the conflict in Yemen, are made clear and at the highest level.
Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)
My Lords, does my noble friend accept that one other product of the Saudi-Iran rivalry, in addition to the horrors in Yemen, is the stand-off between Saudi Arabia and Qatar, which of course is undermining the whole solidarity of the Gulf Cooperation Council? Does he agree that the UK might be able to contribute to ending that dispute by looking more carefully at allegations that Qatar is assisting Iranian subversion and actual terrorist groups such as al-Nusra, establishing whether they true, and if so what Qatar’s motives are in pursuing this particularly destructive course?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
First, the dispute between Qatar and Saudi Arabia is of course a concern, particularly regarding the unity that we have seen across the Gulf Cooperation Council. On resolving that dispute, I agree with my noble friend, which is why we have been lending full support to the efforts by Kuwait in particular to find a resolution to all these issues—including the one that he has raised—to ensure that this dispute can be resolved as soon as possible. The concern remains with all these disputes, wherever they are within the region, that if we do not see a resolution, we will increasingly see instability across the region, which benefits no one—not just the region but the wider world.
Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill [HL]
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Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
That it be an instruction to the Committee of the Whole House to which the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill [HL] has been committed that they consider the bill in the following order:
Clauses 1 to 4, Schedule 1, Clauses 5 to 41, Schedule 2, Clauses 42 to 47, Schedule 3, Clauses 48 to 53, Title.
Zimbabwe
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts(8 years, 3 months ago)
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The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)
My Lords, with the permission of the House, I will repeat the Answer given by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs to an Urgent Question in another place on the current situation in Zimbabwe:
“In the early hours of this morning, soldiers from the Zimbabwean army deployed in central Harare, taking control of state television, surrounding government ministries and sealing off Robert Mugabe’s official and private residences. At 1.26 am local time, a military officer appeared on state television and declared that the army was taking what he called ‘targeted action’ against the ‘criminals’ around Mugabe. Several government Ministers, all of them political allies of Grace Mugabe, are reported to have been arrested. At 2.30 am, gunfire was heard in the northern suburb of Harare where Mugabe has a private mansion. Areas of the central business district have been sealed off by armoured personnel carriers.
Our embassy in Harare has been monitoring the situation carefully throughout the night, supported by staff in the Foreign Office. About 20,000 Britons live in Zimbabwe and I can reassure the House that so far we have received no reports of any British nationals being injured. We have updated our travel advice to recommend that any Britons in Harare should remain in their homes or other accommodation until the situation becomes clearer. All our Zimbabwean and UK-based embassy staff and their families are accounted for. I will say frankly to the House that we cannot tell how developments in Zimbabwe will play out in the days ahead, and we do not know whether this marks the downfall of Mugabe or not. We call for calm and restraint.
The events of the past 24 hours are the latest escalation of months of brutal infighting within the ruling ZANU-PF party, including the sacking of a vice-president and the purging of his followers, and the apparent positioning of Grace Mugabe as a contender to replace her 93 year-old husband.
Honourable Members on all sides of the House have taken a deep interest in Zimbabwe over many years, and I pay particular tribute to the courage and persistence of my friend—and I can say that—the honourable Member for Vauxhall, who has tirelessly exposed the crimes of the Mugabe regime, visiting the country herself during some of its worst moments. This country, under Governments of all parties, has followed the same unwavering principles in its approach to Zimbabwe. First and foremost, we will never forget the strong ties of history and friendship with that beautiful country, accurately described as the jewel of Africa.
All that Britain has ever wanted for Zimbabweans is for them to be able to decide their own future in free and fair elections. Mugabe’s consuming ambition was always to deny them that choice. The House will remember the brutal litany of his 37 years in office: the elections that he rigged and stole; the murder and torture of his opponents; and the illegal seizure of land, leading to the worst hyperinflation in recorded history—measured in billions of percentage points—and forcing the abolition of the Zimbabwean dollar. All the while, his followers were looting and plundering that richly endowed country, so that Zimbabweans today are, per capita, poorer than they were in 1980, leaving many dependent on the healthcare, education and food aid provided by DfID.
Britain has always wanted the Zimbabwean people to be masters of their fate and for any political change to be peaceful, lawful and constitutional. Authoritarian rule, whether in Zimbabwe or anywhere else, should have no place in Africa. There is only one rightful way for Zimbabwe to achieve a legitimate Government, and that is through free and fair elections held in accordance with the country’s constitution. Elections are due to be held in the first half of next year, and we will do all that we can with our international partners to ensure that they provide a genuine opportunity for all Zimbabweans to decide their future. That is what we shall urge on all parties, and I will speak to the Deputy President of South Africa later today.
Every honourable Member will follow the scenes in Harare with good will and sympathy for Zimbabwe’s long-suffering people, and I undertake to keep the House updated as events unfold”.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating as a Statement the Answer to the Urgent Question, and I of course wholeheartedly support the actions of the Government: protection of all civilians, including the 20,000 British citizens, is obviously the first priority. I see that recent press reports say that a delegation from South Africa was refused entry into Zimbabwe. Can the Minister tell us a little more about the contacts with not only South Africa but the African Union on the ongoing situation and the need to protect civilians? Can he further tell us that there will be discussions to ensure that the whole of the African Union will ensure that the elections scheduled for next year will be free and fair, and open to all people in Zimbabwe to participate in?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
First and foremost, I thank the noble Lord for his support for the Government, which reflects the continuing position of Her Majesty’s Opposition on this important issue. On delegates from South Africa being refused entry, I am aware of various media reports. I cannot give him a factual answer, but I will certainly follow that up. As I said in repeating the Answer, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary will be speaking to the Deputy President of South Africa. We will get an update and I will update the noble Lord and the whole House accordingly.
The noble Lord makes a valid point about the African Union. In that regard, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary is due to travel to the next meeting of the African Union—in Ivory Coast, I believe —which takes place the week after next. Events may move on—they are very fluid on the ground—but I am sure that, in the conversation and discussion that takes place in the interim and at that meeting, Zimbabwe will be a priority issue.
Lord Chidgey (LD)
My Lords, I, too, confirm our support for the Government’s efforts in this regard. This morning, the Movement for Democratic Change Senator David Coltart said that the military has complete control over the media, and that
“this has all the marks of a coup”.
The MDC is committed to respecting the constitution and is against its breach. Do the Minister and his colleagues support its call for the military to restore order as soon as possible and, if the need arises, for the impeachment of Robert Mugabe?
What assessment has been made of the potential impact of the military takeover on our ongoing commitments in Zimbabwe, which are varied and deep? Has the Minister spoken to his counterpart in DfID about this yet?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
First, as I have already said, the situation is unfolding and fluid, so we are unclear how things are on the ground. I welcome the noble Lord’s support, and that of his party, on this important issue.
In terms of what happens hereafter, I am also aware of contacts made between the South African Government and Robert Mugabe, and reports on that are coming through. Our primary objective is to ensure that all British citizens are safe and know how and where to make contact. Communications remain open with our embassy on the ground and we are in contact with the ambassador. What happens in the next few hours, tomorrow and in the following days is all very much to be determined. However, we will of course work with not just DfID partners but all departments across Her Majesty’s Government and, as I have indicated, allies and supporters in neighbouring countries, particularly South Africa, to ensure stability in the country. I am sure that I speak for everyone in the House when I say that we are calling not just for restraint but for law and order to retain a semblance. We have seen that there is peace at the moment, and hope that that prevails. No matter what their sentiment, we call on all citizens of Zimbabwe to continue in that respect.
The Lord Bishop of Southwark
My Lords, the Minister is only too aware both of the United Kingdom’s historic links with Zimbabwe and of the difficult relationship with ZANU-PF; that is reflected in the Statement, which has won support around the House. Speaking as chair of the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury’s Zimbabwe round table, I pass on the concern of Anglican bishops in Zimbabwe that any transition should not be allowed to lead to a reoccurrence of conflict in a country that has suffered much. I ask that the UK offers help sensitively and purposefully where it is possible to do so, supporting key stakeholders who are committed to a peaceful transition and who are prepared for it.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
I thank the right reverend Prelate. Let me assure him that, of course, we welcome input and insight into the situation on the ground. He raises the issue of the important role of Church leaders in Zimbabwe, which will be an important element in ensuring the peace and security that we all wish to be sustained in Zimbabwe. The role of the Church in that regard will be crucial.
Lord St John of Bletso (CB)
My Lords, I welcome the Statement and the arrests of the G40 hierarchy, which I hope will herald a new dawn and a new chapter for Zimbabwe in building confidence in the country. Is the Minister aware that the most likely immediate scenario is that Emmerson Mnangagwa will become the interim President for the next 90 days and, at the electoral college scheduled for next month, a Government of national unity will be formed with Morgan Tsvangirai as the Prime Minister? While we all call for free and fair elections as soon as possible, is the Minister aware that the most likely situation is that elections will be delayed for a couple of years until economic security and stability is restored in the country?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
The noble Lord will appreciate that I will not speculate on who may or may not lead Zimbabwe. It is a fact that Emmerson Mnangagwa, to whom he referred, was removed as Vice-President by Robert Mugabe and the current Administration. As to what happens thereafter, we expect, hope and desire first and foremost that peace and stability prevails. Of course, there is a constitution to be respected. It would be premature for me to speculate on any delays in elections scheduled for next year, or indeed on whoever in the coming days will be at the helm of government in Zimbabwe.
Lord Hayward (Con)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his answer to the previous question. It would be premature to welcome any change of Government, because we do not know what form that Government will take. I speak as a former resident of the country. I ask him to ensure that, when consideration is given to what may happen in the coming months and years, we recognise that there are several hundred thousand Zimbabweans resident in South Africa and in other countries around Zimbabwe. Therefore, any instability that occurs in Zimbabwe may have serious implications for the other countries in that part of the continent.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
I thank my noble friend, who speaks very aptly. We have always been concerned about the situation in Zimbabwe and its impact on the surrounding regions. I alluded to this in the Statement but, irrespective of which party has led the Government and notwithstanding the situation on the ground in Zimbabwe, we have stood firm and side by side with the people of Zimbabwe. We have seen from recent economic conditions on the ground and in the situation under Robert Mugabe’s leadership that the people have suffered dreadfully. However, at the same time, the British Government, irrespective of political colour, have stood resolute in supporting Zimbabwe’s citizens. We continue to provide £80 million per annum in bilateral support, in crucial areas such as education and health, and it is important that that support has continued irrespective of who has led Zimbabwe.
Lord Hain (Lab)
My Lords, in welcoming the Minister’s Statement, can I gently correct him? South Africa is the jewel of Africa—not Zimbabwe. More seriously, could he investigate why the fearlessly investigative online newspaper the Daily Maverick had its chief reporter in Zimbabwe, Richard Poplak, detained and then put on a plane out of Harare? Is there now an even greater attack on press freedom in Zimbabwe? Could he investigate that, because it is a worrying development? Given the instability, we need journalists in there to tell us the truth.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
On the second point, I shall write to the noble Lord as appropriate. On his first point, there are many jewels in Africa, and that is probably where I shall let the matter rest.
Lord Spicer (Con)
The danger of these sorts of discussions is that the impression is given that we have responsibility for what happens in Zimbabwe. Obviously, we have some responsibility for the 20,000 or so British citizens who are there—but do we have the capability to rescue them if necessary?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
Our first priority is our own citizens, and I have already alluded to the fact that we have made sure that we are in communication with them and retain that. We have given them advice to stay in their homes, because that is important; we do not know what the prevailing situation will be. In our general responsibility not just to Zimbabwe but across the world, it is right that Britain as a country, with regard to both our history and our current positioning, remains engaged and involved, whether through our support through DfID or other political and humanitarian support. That shows that we are a responsible Government on the international stage; I strongly believe that, and long may it continue.
Daesh: Raqqa
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Lord West of Spithead (Lab)
My Lords, I beg leave to ask a Question of which I have given private notice.
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)
My Lords, we were not involved in the discussions and did not condone the decision. This was a local agreement by local leaders, including the Raqqa Civil Council and tribal elders. Despite territorial losses, Daesh remains a threat and coalition activity against it continues. We remain determined to fight and defeat Daesh. We are prepared for the risk from returnees as Daesh loses territory and we are using a range of tools to disrupt and diminish that threat.
Lord West of Spithead
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his Answer. These clearly are hardened fighters and I hope we have put in place mechanisms to spot them when they come in. Militarily, we have now effectively destroyed the caliphate in physical terms, and we should be very pleased about that huge success. Now, we must move towards trying to get a proper ceasefire in Syria. The only way to do that is to involve the SDF, the Kurds and other coalition members, but also Assad. Assad might be a loathsome man but he is a fact of life on the ground. If he and his structure suddenly went, 2 million to 3 million Alawites and Christians could possibly be wiped out but would certainly be refugees. We really must deal with this dreadful man because otherwise we will not have a ceasefire, the fighting will continue and people will continue to be killed. Will we now have more connection with Assad, the SDF and the others to ensure that there is a ceasefire, so that we can then move forward to some sort of future settlement?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
First, I agree with the noble Lord about the despicable nature of the crimes committed by Daesh fighters. We have all rightly condemned those, and the Government have taken a very strong stance to ensure that they are held to account. The noble Lord will be aware that in September, during the UNGA, we led on a Security Council resolution specifically to hold Daesh fighters to account.
On the situation regarding the different parties, the noble Lord is right that the coalition continues to support the SDF and the Kurds. However, on the specific issue of Bashar Assad, we have made our position clear: we do not believe that he should be leading Syria at the end of any discussions that take place. That is ultimately a call for the Syrian people themselves but we have been consistent in our call to ensure that there is a true representation of civilian communities in Syria, and clear that Bashar Assad does not provide any sense of a final settlement being reached in Syria. At the same time, I take on board totally the fact that we must ensure the security and safety of all communities within Syria, particularly the minorities who have suffered dreadfully during this far too long conflict.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, the fact is that these fighters have gone somewhere. They have not disappeared, and there is a potential threat to neighbouring countries. What assessment have the Government made of the threat to neighbouring countries, particularly those which are fighting Daesh? Also, what assessment has the Minister made of how that release of fighters affects our ability to hold these criminals to account? It is vital that we do that.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
I agree with the noble Lord, most certainly on his final point—the Government, as he knows, take very seriously the need to hold them to account. Just to put this in context, the number quoted also includes the families. The deal was known to the SDF, in particular, and was a local tribal deal. The purpose behind the evacuation was to minimise the loss of civilian lives in the fall of Raqqa, particularly those of women and young children. To track Daesh fighters we are continuing to use all agencies on the ground and to work with the coalition of 73 countries, including several neighbouring countries, to ensure that those who are seeking to leave the conflict zone in Syria and in Iraq are held accountable locally. If foreign fighters seek to return to the UK, there is due process in place to ensure that they are held to account for their crimes abroad.
Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)
The Minister will have heard the noble Earl, Lord Courtown, say 10 minutes ago that we continue to play a pivotal role in operations against Daesh. The presence of coalition aircraft over the convoy, as reported on BBC News, suggests that at least some leading members of the coalition knew what was going on and, perhaps, must have been involved in the conflict. Is he saying that we were not playing a pivotal role in this?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
My noble friend made the point that we continue to be at the heart and centre of the fight against Daesh in both Syria and Iraq. I think that some of the media reports were speculative. However, to put the noble Lord’s question into context, the deal was not not known to people as there were two press releases at the time highlighting that the evacuation was taking place. It was not a question of not knowing. We continue to monitor all aspects of any Daesh fighters fleeing from the territory. We continue to monitor their movements very closely.
Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Con)
Can my noble friend confirm that many foreign Daesh fighters have burned their passports, so in the case of British fighters it will be quite difficult, but not impossible, for them to find their way back to the United Kingdom?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
My noble friend raises a point and I am sure there are cases where that has happened. I suggest to him that anyone making themselves known to the authorities on the ground will be held to account. There are measures in place to ensure that those who somehow, through various efforts, return to the UK are held to account. It is ultimately for the CPS to take forward any prosecutions which may occur.
Lord Richard (Lab)
The Minister’s account of what seems to have happened gets curiouser and curiouser. As I understand what he is now saying, we knew this was going on. Presumably the Americans also knew that it was going on. The other members of the coalition knew that it was going on. Did we try to stop it? Did we make representations to whoever was doing the deal that it was not in the interests of the coalition or of the war against Daesh? In short, what did we do except just look at it?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
For the benefit of the noble Lord and the whole House I shall read from the press release put out on 14 October by Jonathan Braga, the coalition’s director of operations. At the end, it states:
“We do not condone any arrangement that allows Daesh terrorists to escape Raqqa without facing justice only to resurface somewhere else. We remain concerned about the thousands of civilians in Raqqa who remain subject to Daesh cruelty”.
It continues:
“Daesh terrorists have been hiding behind women and children”—
I alluded to that—
“for three years, and we are against any arrangement that lets them continue to do so”.
As I said, there were press releases at the time. This was a decision made locally by tribal elders and the Raqqa civilian council. The primary objective behind the decision was to protect women and children. The Daesh fighters numbered not thousands but hundreds, and they continue to be monitored. As to the coalition’s role in any decision-taking, we do not condone any such arrangement, and we continue to ensure that any Daesh fighters, wherever they may be in the territory, are held to account.
Lord Hylton (CB)
The noble Lord, Lord West, quite rightly wanted a complete ceasefire in Syria. How would that be achieved by wiping out every last Daesh fighter? Secondly, will the Government ensure that wives and other camp-followers are not held responsible for the crimes of the fighters?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
With Daesh, we are dealing with a despicable organisation. The way that it has influenced many, in terms of recruitment, is well known to all noble Lords. The noble Lord’s point is pertinent: we need to ensure that all efforts are made to save any lives that can be saved, particularly those of women and young children. Of course I totally agree with the noble Lord, Lord West, that ultimately what we are seeking from our operations on the ground and from the coalition engagement—with all 70-odd nations involved with that coalition—is to reach a final settlement that protects the peace and security of all communities that have been impacted by Daesh activity not just in Syria but, as we are seeing now, encouragingly, in Iraq as well.
Baroness Hodgson of Abinger (Con)
My Lords, can my noble friend tell me whether there have been discussions with other members of the coalition about trying to address the situation so that these fighters can be detained and face the justice that he mentioned in the press release?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
Absolutely. As I mentioned earlier, we championed an anti-Daesh resolution at the Security Council. We continue to work not just with our P5 coalition partners but across the piece to ensure that, as my noble friend rightly says, these Daesh fighters, whether they are caught in Syria, crossing borders or making their way back home if they were foreign fighters—there were some who, regrettably and tragically, left the UK—are held to account for their actions and brought to justice.
Commonwealth Summit 2018
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The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)
My Lords, I join other noble Lords in thanking the noble Lord, Lord Chidgey, for his tenacity—as it has been called by some—and his commitment to this important agenda. I am greatly privileged to answer a debate of this nature. From the contributions we have seen across the Chamber, it is clear that we all align ourselves with the unity behind not just the virtues and values of the Commonwealth but its purpose.
As several noble Lords have alluded to, next year the UK will have the deep honour and privilege of welcoming the Commonwealth family; I use the word deliberately. I assure all noble Lords—particularly the noble Lords, Lord McNally, Lord Parekh and Lord Taylor—that when we talk about family, we can all personally account for the strength of the family and at times perhaps need look no further than your Lordships’ Chamber to see the great wealth of the Commonwealth. The noble Lord, Lord Taylor, talked about his family experiences and the diaspora of communities here in the UK. Again, that is a huge opportunity to demonstrate the strength of everything that defines the family that is the Commonwealth when we look at our own country, and indeed the city of London, in terms of its diversity and depth and the richness of its diaspora. I often joke with my children about the great heritage of the Commonwealth, as they are products of the Commonwealth who can claim heritage from Australia, the UK, India and Pakistan. I will come on to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Hussain, but there are family ties on the issue he raised. That issue is a pertinent and important one: he mentioned Kashmir and the bilateral relations between India and Pakistan. Fora such as the Commonwealth—he mentioned the United Nations as well—provide a huge opportunity for the United Kingdom to play its part in making sure those two countries, which share so much in terms of culture, community, faith and language, can join together and resolve something that ensures and upholds the rights of all citizens, irrespective of what region or part of the Commonwealth they belong to.
As we have heard, next year, attendees will include Heads of Government, foreign Ministers, civil society leaders, businesspeople and, perhaps most importantly, young people from every corner of the Commonwealth. I have been greatly inspired by meeting all the Commonwealth networks for young people. Let us not forget that 60% of the Commonwealth is under 30. Regrettably, I do not think there is anyone in your Lordships’ House at this time who can claim to be part of that cohort. That provides a huge opportunity and we must engage directly with the youth. Therefore, we have shared with our partners that official delegates from across the 52 nations should also include at least one individual from that particular age group to ensure, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, said, we set the agenda not just for April or for the two years that the United Kingdom is in the chair, but to attract the youth so we can truly address what the noble Lord, Lord Judd, said about the global nature of the world we live in. It is right that we engage with the youth directly on this important issue.
The members of the Commonwealth cover more than a quarter of the world’s land mass. As we heard from the noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, and others, trade adds up to incredible amounts. It will grow to $1 trillion by 2020. The Commonwealth is home to more than 2 billion people. These figures show its immense global potential for influence and demonstrate why it is important to the UK. It is about not just our strong cultural and personal ties, which some noble Lords alluded to, but the common future, a common partnership and common hopes for all Commonwealth members and more. I noted the words of the noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, in this respect. If we have 52 nations today it will certainly be more by the time of the summit. We need to look to the future to ensure that we really make the Commonwealth representative of the world as it is today.
We have seen the tremendous impact the Commonwealth has when it acts as one. We are all aware of the important work it did historically, looking back to recent history in South Africa, with its transition from the great injustices of apartheid to a free and democratic society. We see how Heads of Government came together in Malta in 2015 to press for ambitious climate change targets. I assure the noble Lord, Lord Judd, that that remains a priority at this Heads of Government Meeting. There is the important pillar of sustainability. Let us not forget the UK’s work, with other nations, following the impact of the hurricanes—I was in the Pacific Islands when the hurricanes hit—and the importance of working together. In that regard, I pay tribute to the Commonwealth Secretariat, in particular to its Secretary-General, the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Scotland, for the co-ordination and co-operation we saw with Governments across the Pacific and the Caribbean. I also pay tribute to her recent work brokering a political agreement in Zambia. This demonstrates the strength of the Commonwealth at its best.
We want next April’s summit to drive further progress towards realising the Commonwealth’s true potential. We are pleased that all member states and Heads of Government have agreed that the summit will focus on four common challenges. At a reception for Commonwealth leaders held recently during the UN General Assembly in New York, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister, Mrs May, outlined these challenges and opportunities. They are: how to make the compelling case for free trade and promote higher living standards around the world; how to address new security challenges, including cyberterrorism and online extremism; how to mitigate the effects of climate change, in particular—as the noble Lord, Lord Judd, drew attention to—on small and vulnerable states; and, as we heard from many noble Lords, the importance of human rights and how to protect the values we all share to create a fairer, freer and more tolerant Commonwealth.
We hope the theme of the summit, “Towards a Common Future”, encapsulates our ambitions. We want the summit to revitalise the Commonwealth and to build that brighter future. Preparations are under way. We are already working closely with member states, the Commonwealth Secretariat and, importantly—to reassure the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and my noble friend Lady Berridge—with civil society groups to put together a programme for the summit that will strengthen the prosperity and security of all Commonwealth countries.
I have had the great pleasure and privilege of representing the UK and meeting with our Commonwealth partners across the world. In recent months I have travelled to India, Bangladesh and Ghana. As I alluded to, I visited the Pacific Islands, including Fiji, and Australia, which is hosting the next Commonwealth Games in Brisbane. We are delighted that we shall host the ones after that in Birmingham. It is an opportunity to bring our country together. My interactions with government leaders and young people in all of these countries have strengthened my belief that the Commonwealth has a powerful role to play in the modern world.
To turn to some of the fora talked about, and to directly answer the Question before us, there will be a people’s forum. This will be the biggest meeting of Heads of Government that the UK has ever hosted. However, we believe the Commonwealth, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, so articulately put it, is not simply a collection of member states and a secretariat. It is so much more. A fundamental part of the Commonwealth is its people-to-people links, as we know from the extraordinary contribution the Commonwealth diaspora makes to British society. We see the Commonwealth’s strength and uniqueness as being in many organisations. That is why it is at the centre of this particular event.
The people’s forum is the single largest gathering of civil society representatives from across the Commonwealth. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and others that I wish to work with Members in this House and the other place to ensure that we get those representative voices at the people’s forum as we develop the programme. I would be pleased to meet noble Lords in that respect.
Alongside the people’s forum, as we have heard, there will also be a business forum. I join the noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, in paying tribute to my noble friend Lord Marland for organising it. There will be a women’s forum. I assure noble Lords, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, that women’s issues will be front and centre. It is not just about the education of young girls but the empowerment of women, and we will be looking to work together in that respect.
Our co-operation with the CPA is already part and parcel of our thinking. I assure noble Lords that I have already met not just CPA UK but the international CPA, and I am delighted that we will be playing a key part in the February event. I have noted the suggestion made by the noble Lord, Lord McNally—to whom I always listen very carefully, not least because I was his Whip once upon a time—about how we might perhaps use this Chamber for events.
Various issues were raised around the freedom of religion and belief. My noble friend Lady Berridge will know that this is very much part and parcel of our thinking. The fairness pillar within the Commonwealth summit allows us to develop this further. My noble friend also talked about how to ensure a continuation with Malaysia at the parliamentary forum and CHOGM. Malaysia has indeed put itself forward and we will be looking during our two years in the chair to ensure that continuation of key themes in the summit.
The noble Lord, Lord Judd, talked about refugees and asked where we were on that. It is a timely opportunity to demonstrate our commitment to the values we share across the Commonwealth. I will write to the noble Lord in response to his letter—my letter is on its way, I assure him.
We heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, about health and education. We had a very constructive meeting on the issue of global malaria. As we have heard, malaria is a key issue for many Commonwealth citizens. We are working with member states and the Commonwealth Secretariat to examine the options for the summit agenda. I will keep the House updated as this takes shape. I assure the noble Baroness that the UK has already pledged £1.1 billion to the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria over the next three years.
I have already mentioned issues around climate change. The important issue of LGBTI rights was mentioned by the noble Lords, Lord Judd, Lord Cashman and Lord Collins. We are committed. We have heard the words of the Prime Minister. I assure noble Lords that the Foreign Secretary and I are equally committed to combating discrimination in all its guises, including violence against LGBTI people, throughout the Commonwealth. We used every opportunity at the previous CHOGM in Malta to highlight our belief that the Commonwealth must stand up for human rights, including the rights of the LGBTI community. The detailed forum programmes are still being developed but we are confident that LGBTI issues will be a substantive area of discussion.
There were a couple of other questions. The noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, asked about pensions. He will be aware that this issue has followed various Governments around for the past 70 years. The UK state pension is payable worldwide but is uprated abroad only when there is a reciprocal legal requirement to do so. Currently there are no plans to review this.
It was a great honour to be appointed Minister for the Commonwealth, particularly at such an important time for the organisation and the UK’s relationship with it. This is not about the UK’s role alone but about an equal partnership of 52 nations and—who knows?—more in the future. We want this CHOGM summit to be a milestone event in Commonwealth history—a chance to truly demonstrate how the Commonwealth can help mitigate the major challenges: the issues of security, climate change, fairness and equality for all its citizens, and the important elements of human rights and fairness. We will continue to work in close partnership with the Commonwealth Secretariat, member states and our partners across civil society to ensure that it is a great success. When representing the UK abroad, as I have the honour to do, I often say that the great strength of our nation is its diversity. The same is true of the 52 members of the Commonwealth.
Terrorism: Sexual Violence
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts(8 years, 3 months ago)
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Baroness Cox
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their response to the recommendation of the Henry Jackson Society’s report Trafficking Terror that an International Legal Task Force should be established to gather evidence on sexual violence as a tactic of terrorism.
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)
My Lords, we condemn the use of sexual violence by terrorist organisations and are committed to holding perpetrators to account. UK law enforcement agencies are already assessing the threat posed by terrorism and human trafficking globally with our multilateral and bilateral partners. Our team of experts is also supporting efforts to gather evidence of sexual violence in conflict. The report makes a number of valid points and we will give them due consideration.
Baroness Cox (CB)
I thank the Minister for his sympathetic reply. Is he aware of the scale of money flowing from modern slavery to terrorist organisations such as Islamic State and Boko Haram? According to the report, from just 16 victims taken hostage, Islamic State gained between £98,000 and £198,000 from ransom payments. Slavery is also used to provide a plethora of non-monetary incentives to attract and reward terrorist fighters. Will Her Majesty’s Government consider the broader implications of laws, including the Modern Slavery Act 2015 and the Terrorism Act 2016, to reflect adequately the spectrum of crimes committed by individuals using sexual slavery and violence as a tactic of terrorism?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
I assure the noble Baroness that we not only condemn it but act on that. She will be aware of our action at the highest level at the UN Security Council with the passing of Resolution 2331, which addresses the nexus between human trafficking, sexual violence and terrorism. More recently, as I have said to the House, in September this year at the UN Security Council we passed a resolution specifically to set up an investigative team to gather greater evidence on sexual violence and crimes committed by Daesh in Iraq. That demonstrates the action we are taking at an international level to ensure that we tackle this head on.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, this is one of those critical issues that requires interdepartmental examination and is not just about UN activity. The relationship between human trafficking, sexual violence and terrorist groups is complex. Will the Minister assure us that the departments in Whitehall are working together to examine this so that consideration is given to both international law and domestic law?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
I can give the noble Lord that assurance. Only two weeks ago, the Home Secretary, Amber Rudd, chaired a meeting of Ministers, including those from the Foreign Office and DCLG. They looked at the action we are taking domestically on the primary issue of modern slavery and the referral mechanism, which includes support for victims of human trafficking. The meeting also brought together elements of international action and our bilateral representation and leadership on this issue, and how modern slavery and human trafficking is one of many instruments used by terrorist organisations.
Baroness Afshar (CB)
My Lords, are the Government aware that by misunderstanding or misrepresenting Islam, this kind of slavery is now extended to children as young as nine years old? The issue is becoming much more serious and needs to be comprehensively dealt with in the localities. Intervention is essential at the point where it starts.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
I assure the noble Baroness that I understand that issue very well. Around the world, organisations such as Daesh, Boko Haram and al-Shabaab erroneously say that their actions are inspired by Islam, by religion. What religion? What humanity? We condemn them totally and unequivocally. On a practical point, I was in New York earlier this week and met the Deputy Secretary-General, Amina Mohammed. We discussed some of the steps that have been taken in Nigeria—including the very point the noble Baroness alerts us to—about working with communities and clerics on the ground to ensure that the poisonous narrative the terrorists present can be unequivocally condemned by the religious leaders who represent that faith.
Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)
My Lords, the excellent report of the Select Committee on Sexual Violence in Conflict recommended, among other things, a review of local legislation. Will the Minister update the House on the Government’s progress in implementing this? Does he agree that it is in our interests to lead the international task force recommended in the Henry Jackson Society’s report to show the international leadership that we are capable of and to help cut off funding for terrorism on the streets of Britain?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
The noble Baroness raises a vital point and I agree with her totally. We also need to demonstrate local action. However, as she will be aware, such local actions are reflective of the international human trafficking that occurs. On the specific issue of preventing sexual violence, we have also led the way. She may be aware that over the past 12 months we have had 20 deployments through 10 countries. That demonstrates our commitment to building international co-operation on tackling not only sexual violence but what leads to human trafficking in that respect.
Lord Hylton (CB)
Does the Minister accept that there are three stages to this business? First, you have to gather the evidence; then you have to have a prosecutor; and, finally, you have to have a court or tribunal to try cases. Will the Government try to co-ordinate all three stages?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
The noble Lord is correct. That is why I again allude to the Security Council effort made this year in September, where the resolution passed does exactly what the noble Lord suggests. It is about gathering evidence, building the capacity of the team gathering that evidence, and then bringing terrorist groups to justice. This, of course, is focused specifically on Daesh. We want to see how we can replicate the effort to bring international co-ordination on this particular activity so that we can hold the perpetrators to account.
Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill [HL]
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon ExcerptsWednesday 1st November 2017
(8 years, 3 months ago)
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The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)
My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for attending the debate and for the useful comments already shared with me and my noble friend Lady Goldie during the meetings we have held since the Bill was introduced. This is an important piece of legislation and we need to get it right.
The United Kingdom has long played a leading role on the global stage in tackling threats to international peace and security. One method of influence increasingly used by the international community is the imposition of sanctions. Sanctions encompass a range of measures, such as travel bans, asset freezes, trade restrictions and broader economic measures. In recent years they have been employed in relation to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and the conflict in Syria, and to put pressure on Iran to come to the negotiating table. Anti-money laundering regulations are also increasingly important in this globalised world and vital if the international community is to continue to protect itself from financial crime. The effectiveness of these measures depends on the consistent enforcement of technical and procedural controls mandated by the Financial Action Task Force, an international organisation of which the United Kingdom is a founder member.
I shall briefly set the scene as to where we are. The UK currently implements 35 sanctions regimes. These include country-specific regimes, such as those on North Korea, Syria and Iran, and regimes targeting terrorist organisations such as al-Qaeda and Daesh. Within these regimes there are currently around 2,000 individuals, groups and businesses subject to restrictive measures.
In broad terms, the UK implements four main types of sanction regime. The first is based entirely on UN Security Council resolutions. As a member of the UN, the UK is obliged to implement them. Indeed, our position as a permanent member of the Security Council means that we have agreed to those regimes in that forum before they become international law under the UN charter.
The second type of regime is where the EU has acted alone or with allies such as the US, generally where it has not been possible to reach agreement at the United Nations. I shall give an example of the former: after the annexation of Crimea, the UN was unable to impose sanctions on Russia because of Russia’s veto in the Security Council, so the EU decided to act in concert with the United States and other like-minded countries. The third type is hybrid regimes. These are where the EU has adopted UN sanctions but has decided to top up the provisions within those regimes with additional measures. An example of this occurred recently on North Korea. Finally, the UK has some domestic powers to impose sanctions—for example, under the Terrorist Asset-Freezing etc. Act 2010.
This is a technical Bill which ensures that the UK can continue to meet its international obligations and to implement UK sanctions and anti-money laundering measures after we leave the European Union. New domestic legislation is necessary because most of the UK’s powers to implement sanctions and anti-money laundering measures currently come from the European Communities Act 1972. When the EU withdrawal Act, as the Bill going through the other place will become, repeals the European Communities Act, it will freeze any sanctions regimes which are in force on the day on which the withdrawal Act commences, but we do not possess sufficient powers under current domestic legislation fully to impose, amend and lift existing or new EU UK autonomous sanctions regimes. Similarly, we do not currently possess sufficient domestic legal powers to update anti-money laundering and counterterrorist financing legislation after the UK ceases to be a member of the EU. This means that, without this Bill, the UK would quickly be in breach of international law.
Before I go into detail about the content of the Bill, I reassure noble Lords that there has been significant government engagement with individuals and businesses on this domestic framework. In April, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, Her Majesty’s Treasury and the Department for International Trade published a White Paper and launched a public consultation on the UK’s future legal framework for imposing and implementing sanctions. My officials held round tables with a number of sectors including financial services, NGOs and the legal profession, as well as international partners. My right honourable friend Sir Alan Duncan, the Minister for Europe and the Americas, took part in a debate on sanctions in the other place on 19 July. On 2 August, the Government published their response to the consultation. This process had been transparent over the previous six months, and I intend to continue the same level of transparency with noble Lords as the Bill passes through this House.
Turning to the content of the Bill, I emphasise that it is about powers and not policy—it is a technical Bill which creates the legal framework for the UK to be able to continue to impose sanctions where appropriate. Part 1 allows the Government to impose a number of sanctions: financial, trade, transport and immigration. This will allow the UK to maintain the full range of sanctions available at the moment. Part 2 deals with anti-money laundering and counterterrorist financing regimes, and Part 3 deals with general matters such as supplementary provisions and definitions. For each new UK sanctions regime, the Government intend to bring forward a statutory instrument which contains details for that regime.
I know how important it is that we have robust parliamentary scrutiny of these new powers. I also know that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, in particular shares this view. This Bill allows for such scrutiny. Regulations which deal with UN regimes will be made under the negative procedure. Once agreed at the UN Security Council, the UK has an obligation to implement these sanctions under the UN charter. Not doing so would leave the UK in breach of international law. Regimes which both deal with UN obligations and include additional sanctions or hybrid regimes will also be made under the negative procedure. Regulations which do not deal with the UN regimes will be made under the made affirmative procedure. This will allow regimes to come into force immediately, thereby negating the risk that assets are removed before restrictions take effect, while allowing Parliament to debate the regulations.
The vast majority of anti-money laundering regulations will be made using draft affirmative procedures. The one exception to this will be where the UK makes updates to the current EU regulation. This requires enhanced due diligence measures to be applied to persons in countries with strategic deficiencies in their anti-money laundering regimes. Such updates need to be made quickly, and will be made by using the affirmative procedure. At present, anti-money laundering regulations are transposed into UK law through the negative procedure, so the Bill will increase parliamentary scrutiny.
Risks arising from money laundering and financial crime evolve quickly, as reflected by the Government’s active agenda to address these threats. The Bill therefore provides for the Government to take a sufficiently broad power to ensure that the UK’s anti-money laundering regime remains fit for purpose and is able to respond swiftly to emerging risks. The content of the current money laundering regulations is sufficiently technical that it is better suited for secondary legislation, rather than primary. This is in keeping with the approach typically taken in the UK and elsewhere to establish detailed obligations on the regulated sector.
In some of the meetings that we have held, engagement with noble Lords suggested that the current requirements of the fourth EU money laundering directive should be included in the Bill, and therefore capable of being amended only through primary legislation. I have listened to the discussions we had very carefully but it remains our view that this would dramatically increase the size of the Bill, adding more than 100 new clauses, and would not reflect the rapidly evolving nature of anti-money laundering policy. As many noble Lords will know, the EU is already in the process of amending the fourth money laundering directive, in spite of it being transposed only earlier this year. This demonstrates again the need to act swiftly. Similarly, when a Government of the future need to anticipate or react to new threats, they may wish to create new types of sanctions. It would be remiss of us not to ensure that the Bill was future-proofed so that it remained useful. Regulations which create new sanctions will be exercised through the draft affirmative procedure, thereby allowing Parliament to have a full say.
An important element of the Bill is the threshold for designations. The Bill proposes that, to impose restrictive measures on an individual, a Minister must have “reasonable grounds to suspect” that they are involved in an activity we want to change or prevent. This is the same standard that we currently use when considering designations at the United Nations and the EU. It is broadly equivalent to the “sufficiently solid factual basis” applied by EU courts. The application of this threshold was considered and endorsed by the Supreme Court in the case against Youssef in 2016; it was also considered acceptable by the EU General Court in the case against Mohammed Al-Ghabra, again in 2016, where the court emphasised the need for the threshold to be supported by sufficient evidence.
The importance of a clear threshold of this kind was also underlined by colleagues involved in the European Union Committee’s 11th report of the 2016-17 Session, The Legality of EU Sanctions, an inquiry conducted by its Justice Sub-Committee. Having the same threshold that we currently use when considering designations at the UN and EU will allow us to align with our international partners where our political objectives converge. Sanctions are always best applied by a broad coalition of countries. Working with partners increases the impact of the agreed measures and reduces the compliance burdens on business. I will return to this later.
As set out in our consultation response, the Bill also aligns the threshold for domestic counter-terrorism sanctions to this test of “reasonable grounds to suspect”. This is a change to the current approach under the Terrorist Asset-Freezing etc. Act 2010, where Treasury Ministers must have “reasonable grounds to believe” that an individual is involved in prohibited activity and that the measure is necessary for the protection of the public. No new designations under the TAFA threshold have been made for two years and a reduced threshold will have a number of benefits. It will bring counterterrorism sanctions in line with other UK financial sanctions regimes, improving the coherence and clarity of our sanctions framework as a whole. It will allow the Government to impose sanctions based on similar levels of evidence to those required by our international partners, ensuring that we can maintain productive international co-operation on this issue. It will also give the Government more flexibility in using asset-freezing tools domestically, and thereby help to mitigate the threat from terrorism.
Noble Lords will be aware of how this threat has changed even in the short time since TAFA was passed. I need not dwell on this matter too long, but terrorists and others who wish us harm can cause significant damage without significant resources. Therefore it is an important point, especially in the light of the foreign fighters flooding back to their own countries, including the United Kingdom, as Daesh is dismantled in Iraq and Syria.
That said, a fine balance must also be struck between keeping our citizens safe—a priority for any Government is the security of their citizens—at the same time as protecting the fundamental rights of individuals. While the threshold for designating individuals for counterterrorism asset freezes may have been lowered by the Bill, the protections and procedural safeguards offered elsewhere are robust and in line with international best practice. Let me highlight two areas.
Lord Marlesford (Con)
My Lords, just a moment ago the Minister—if I heard him right—said that terrorists are flooding back into the United Kingdom. Is that really what the Government think?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
I shall repeat what I said for my noble friend. I said terrorists are flooding back to their places of origin, and of course there are people who may seek to return to the United Kingdom from Iraq and Syria. With the defeat of Daesh, that is a real possibility, so we need to ensure that there are measures both to keep them where they are in terms of prosecution and, if they do return, to ensure that any sanctions that we need are readily available.
I was about to provide practical examples of, first, challenges to designations allowing a route for redress for sanctioned individuals and entities; and, secondly, of reviews of regimes to ensure that the Government conduct due diligence on the restrictive measures they impose. In the Bill, there are two methods by which an individual can challenge their designation. The first allows them to request a reassessment of their listing by the Secretary of State. This is designed to offer quick redress to individuals, enabling those who are incorrectly designated or who can provide evidence which refutes the reason for their designation to be removed from a listing by the Secretary of State with the minimum of delay. If the designation is upheld following the administrative reassessment, individuals can challenge that designation before the High Court on the principles of judicial review. This is the second means of challenge. Provision is included in the Bill to allow for classified evidence to be shared with the court where appropriate. For UN sanctions, which the UK has an obligation to implement under international law, an individual can make a request that the Secretary of State uses his best endeavours to remove that person’s name from the UN list. Were the Secretary of State to decide not to seek a delisting at the UN, the individual can challenge that decision before the High Court.
It is important that the Government review sanction regimes and listings to make sure they remain fit for purpose and up to date. Sanctions are not designed to be punitive or permanent. They are always intended as a temporary measure designed to prevent or change behaviour. Regimes must have a clear purpose. A regular review will ensure that remains the case. The Government will conduct an annual political review of each regime to check that it remains appropriate for its purpose. Every three years the Government will review all the designations under the regime to make sure they remain necessary and continue to meet the evidential threshold. As now, the Government will continue to be able to grant licences to allow activities that would otherwise be prohibited—for example, to allow individuals subject to an asset freeze to pay for their essential needs, such as food or legal fees.
We recognise that there have been criticisms of the current EU licensing system. This was highlighted to me last year when we had to ask the EU to amend the Syrian regime so that general licences could be granted permitting NGOs to provide humanitarian aid and associated support activities. This Bill will give the Government more flexibility to issue such general licences, which will provide more clarity to humanitarian organisations and reduce unnecessary bureaucracy.
I know that many noble Lords will be interested in what impact the new regime will have on business. We recognise that multiple divergent sanction regimes can raise compliance costs for business. This is already an issue on Iran, for example, where the EU and US apply different sanctions. As our impact assessment sets out, we expect the aggregate impact of the Bill on UK businesses to be less than £1 million. Most of these costs will relate to compliance as companies familiarise themselves with the UK regime and related guidance.
In designing and implementing future UK sanctions, we will, wherever possible, work closely with the EU, the United States and other international partners to ensure maximum alignment and to reduce the impact on business. We want to maintain close co-operation on sanctions with European and other international partners because, as I said earlier, they are most effective when delivered by a number of countries together. UN sanctions have global reach and are always our preferred option. Outside the UN, we expect to remain aligned with like-minded partners such as the EU and the US on many of the policy goals that drive sanctions.
For example, we continue to believe that sanctions on Russia must remain until the Minsk agreement has been fully implemented. It is too early to speculate on exactly what future co-operation with the EU will look like, and decisions in this regard will be taken at the appropriate time. As the Prime Minister has said, we are leaving the EU, not Europe. Our aspiration is to remain close to partners on foreign policy issues, as proposed in Foreign Policy, Defence and Development: A Future Partnership Paper, which was published by the Department for Exiting the European Union on 12 September. For now, we remain active in shaping and implementing sanctions within the EU.
In conclusion, this is an important Bill to ensure that a legislative framework is available to the Government to maintain and adjust sanctions and anti-money laundering measures once we have left the European Union. It will allow us to continue to fulfil our international obligations and to work with allies to protect and promote our shared values. I beg to move.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
My Lords, first, I thank all noble Lords for their very thoughtful speeches today. Again, they reflect the experience and expertise in your Lordships’ House not only in the matter before us, but in all discussions and debates we have. I cannot agree more with the final point made by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, on the issue of co-operation and working constructively. I hope that I have done so thus far, in terms of engagement and taking on the chin, as a Minister often does, the criticisms levelled at the Government. That will certainly be the basis on which I hope to continue the engagement we have had so far, and as we go forward.
Getting this Bill right, as I said at the start, is very important and our ability to impose sanctions and anti-money laundering measures is central to our vision of a rules-based international system. While, shall we say, differing opinions were expressed during the debate, the principle that I have just articulated is something that we all very much subscribe to. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Collins, the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, for the constructive discussions we have had with the respective Front Benches, and that will continue to be the case.
Again, all noble Lords have agreed on the importance of flexibility and the ability to impose sanctions against the most undesirable regimes—and not just the most undesirable. We find regimes across the world that commit inexplicable horrors against their own populations. When we leave the EU—I say “when”, correcting the noble Baroness, Lady Northover; I am sure that it was a mistake when she used the word “if”—it is right that we have the same ability to continue not to have any flights of assets.
At this juncture, I acknowledge the contribution of my noble friend Lady Anelay, who so aptly spoke of the principles, but also the sentiments and emotions of why we are doing this. This is about human beings, after all; it is about the human element that sanctions are imposed for. If we were living in a perfect world, we would not be having this debate but, unfortunately, that is not the case.
As I said in the opening speech—I hesitate to use the word “technical”, after listening to the noble Lord, Lord McNally—it is a Bill based on principle. Perhaps that is a better way to put it. Of course, I worked very closely with the noble Lord, Lord McNally, and we have had many discussions on this, although those discussions remain as part of the coalition agreement of that time. I listened carefully to his contribution and, in particular, to that of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge. I heard what he said about the powers of the Executive through secondary legislation. I was aware of his previous articles and the speeches that he has given, particularly on the Henry VIII powers. But let me assure all noble Lords that our intent here is not to take powers for the sake of the Executive; it is about ensuring that we have flexibility and sustainability in a sanctions regime.
As I am sure the noble and learned Lord will acknowledge, there are precedents for the use of secondary legislation, although I am sure that it will not change his opinion in any way. One example, of course, is the export control orders under the Export Control Act 2002. I fully acknowledge the difference in the views of noble Lords in this regard, but the Government are certainly of the view that we must balance the need to act swiftly with the importance of parliamentary oversight, which I alluded to earlier.
While the principle is clear, we must, as noble Lords have acknowledged, get the detail right, and the expertise of noble Lords in this Chamber will be vital to ensure that we get progress in this regard. While there are differences, as we have said already, I believe that we can agree on the broad principles of why this Bill is necessary.
I am conscious of limits on time, and I shall seek to get through as many of the issues raised as I can, with the caveat that, if I am unable to answer specific questions that noble Lords have raised, I shall write to them. To take an issue on process, I should say that the Delegated Powers Committee was supposed to meet earlier, but I believe that the revised date is 15 November. I look over to the Box and get a thumbs up, which is always good; it happens rarely from the Box, but I got that one right. Working through the usual channels, we will ensure that the Committee sittings reflect the ability to have that detailed scrutiny.
I turn to some of the questions asked, first by the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles. I welcome her expertise in this area—and I look forward to working with her, particularly on the aspects of money laundering that she raised. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, spoke about the definition and powers being too broad. The definition of money laundering in the Bill replicates that currently used in UK law. It is necessarily broad to ensure that the full range of illicit activity criminalised through the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 is similarly captured by the Bill. Where a person’s rights under the European Convention on Human Rights are affected by any regulations made under Clause 41, the Minister responsible will still be under the existing legal obligation to act with proportionality, as per Section 6 of the Human Rights Act.
The noble Baroness raised the issue of failure to prevent offences, and the noble Lord, Lord Hain, mentioned that in his contribution. When bringing forward secondary legislation of this type, we will consult and act in view of the responses, ensuring that there is a proportionate approach taken in this regard.
The noble Lord, along with the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, and my noble friend Lord Freeman also raised the issue of beneficial ownership information and overseas territories. As the Minister responsible for OTs—it has been a rather busy brief in recent times—I can assure them that this issue is not lost on the Government. On the contrary, Crown dependencies and overseas territories have agreed to hold company beneficial ownership information in a central register and to share it with UK law enforcement on request. As noble Lords know, we have legislated through the Criminal Finances Act 2017 to review the effectiveness of the first 18 months of these arrangements, which will be before us on 1 July 2019. The Government’s focus right now is also on supporting the Crown dependencies and OTs in fully meeting their obligations in this regard.
The noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, referred to her regret Motion regarding the 2017 regulations. This is a happy place, and when we hear the word “regret”, that is always regrettable. As the noble Baroness notes, it will be debated on 6 November and the Government will respond more fully at that time. The transposition deadline by which the UK was legally required to implement the directive was 26 June 2017. This allowed very little time for the Government to publish the regulations after the general election, due to purdah restrictions. We regret that, as she acknowledged, there was a breach of the 21-day rule connected with the transposition of this directive. However, we had consulted extensively with stakeholders on our policy intention. That is all I will say right now; I am sure we will return to this issue when we debate the regret Motion.
The noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Hain, raised the issue of the Government’s approach to criminal offences in secondary legislation. The 2017 money laundering regulations deal with both civil and criminal penalties, and the primary money laundering criminal offences are set out in the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002. The offences established through the money laundering regulations provide a necessary backstop to penalise the most serious sustained breaches of the regulations. Criminal sentences for sanction offences are set out in Clause 16(4), which refers to a statutory maximum of 10 years. I will write to the noble Baroness and the noble Lord about the other details.
The noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, and the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, raised the exercise of power with appropriate safeguards. Yes, in our view there are sufficient safeguards. First, Parliament must authorise every type of sanction that can be imposed. Secondly, all designations are supported by evidence. Thirdly, those affected can ask for a reassessment and challenge through the courts. Fourthly, the Minister must act in accordance with human rights, as per Section 6 of the Human Rights Act 1998. Let me assure noble Lords that we intend to write this week to the newly constituted Joint Committee on Human Rights, setting out the detailed analysis of what I have just described.
The noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, also talked about explicit authority for Parliament for non-UN sanctions. The Bill sets out in detail in Clauses 2 to 6 what Parliament is authorising. As I said in my opening remarks, any new sanction can take effect only after a vote in both Houses authorising that regulation.
The noble and learned Lord also raised the issue of appeals to the Supreme Court being available for the Court of Session in Scotland. Yes, the intention is very much that appeals to both the High Court and the Court of Session will be available.
The noble Lord, Lord Pannick, among others, raised proportionality, seeking assurance that it will always be part of the decision regarding non-UN sanctions. Yes, I can assure noble Lords that where human rights are affected, a Minister will always need to comply with the European Convention on Human Rights and Strasbourg case law, and that will include an assessment of proportionality.
Concern was expressed by several noble Lords about taking powers to prevent money laundering. The UK’s appeal as a financial centre makes it necessary that we prevent money laundering effectively—a point acknowledged by several noble Lords. The 2017 regulations and the EU funds transfer regulation both require that the transfer of funds be accompanied by specified information, enabling effective monitoring and transfer of funds. This will be vital in enabling enforcement authorities to understand and disrupt illicit financial flows.
The noble Lord, Lord Pannick, also raised designation by personal description. We anticipate that we will have sufficient information to identify a person and, where it is the case, we will do so by name. Designation of persons by description is necessary to deal with members of proscribed terrorist organisations who, for example, conceal their identities. We will also provide as much detail as we can so that businesses and banks can carry on their business.
The noble Lord went further and asked about the imposition of financial sanctions on persons connected with a prescribed country. This is necessary to ensure that broad sectoral measures can be imposed which restrict general access to financial persons and markets. There are other elements within this and exemptions that may be applied, so I will write to the noble Lord and place the letter in the Library as well.
The issue of thresholds was also raised by the noble Lord. Where relevant convention rights are engaged, proportionality will, as I have said, be part of the decision-making. Under Section 6 of the Human Rights Act 1998, the appropriate Minister must act in compliance with those convention rights and Strasbourg case law. We accept that this includes the need for the Minister to satisfy himself or herself that the designation is proportionate and includes consideration of the impact of the individual.
The noble Lord also raised issues of procedural fairness and several other matters. In the interests of time and covering other aspects, I will, with his kind permission, write to him and copy other noble Lords into that response.
The noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, who speaks from great experience of the European Parliament, talked about resourcing enforcement of sanctions. We have increased the maximum criminal sentences for breaches of financial sanctions in the Policing and Crime Act to seven years, which we are enabling in this Bill. This means that a breach of financial sanctions is a serious crime, which allows the National Crime Agency to dedicate significant resources to investigations and prosecutions.
She also asked about our having no influence on sanctions as we leave the EU. A question on our relationship was also asked by the noble Lord, Lord Collins. It would be great if I could say, “Right, here’s the page and here’s the answer”, but all this is under negotiation and the exact nature of our future relationship with the EU on sanctions, like much else, still needs to be determined. However, we need to look at this from a global context, with our relationship, our permanent seat on the Security Council at the UN and our other international engagement. The UK has led on many issues within the European Union and I certainly believe, reflecting the optimism across government, that pragmatism will prevail in many areas. I am sure we will see greater detail emerge on this relationship.
Periodic reviews were raised by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, and my noble friend Lord Gold. These provisions are to ensure that designations are kept under regular review and do not simply lie on the shelf. It is important to remember that a number of things can happen within the period that we have set. First, the designated person can request a review and have the decision looked at again; secondly, they can challenge in court; thirdly, if new evidence arises or there is a new matter that has not been considered, they can request a further review; fourthly, the appropriate Minister can instigate a review on their own initiative in response to changing events; and fifthly, the appropriate Minister can bring the deadline forward and complete the review before the end of the three-year period. Given all this, and that the matter of designation is clearly a live matter throughout the period, we do not consider the period to be excessive.
Turning to other questions from several noble Lords, the issue of transparency associated with Scottish limited partnerships was raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles. As of June this year, Scottish limited partnerships have been brought into the scope of the public register of beneficial ownership maintained by Companies House. They are also required to submit an annual confirmation statement that the information held on this register is accurate and to keep the information up to date.
My noble friend Lord Freeman asked whether the UK would remain a member of the Financial Action Task Force. The short answer is yes; the UK is the leading member of the Financial Action Task Force and has been since its establishment. We will continue to fulfil this leadership role after leaving the European Union, so as to continue to influence international standards.
The noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, raised the FATF. Given her expertise and experience, she will be aware that the standards set by the Financial Action Task Force form the basis for both the fourth money laundering directive and anti-money laundering legislation in FATF member states outside the EU. This reflects the international nature of how financial crime can be targeted and dealt with.
Beneficial ownership of property was raised by the noble Baroness and my noble friend Lord Freeman. We sought views earlier this year on the proposed ownership register of overseas companies that own UK property. The responses are being reviewed by the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, which will make an announcement in due course.
Among other things in his contribution, my noble friend Lord James gave some practical examples of the Bill’s operation and asked whether it would stop money laundering in Libya. The short answer is yes; the powers in the Bill will enable us to locate and prohibit that type of criminal activity. We can also put sanctions in place against terrorist groups.
I turn to some of the other questions, to demonstrate that we were listening. The noble Lord, Lord Hain, raised a specific issue in relation to Dubai and Hong Kong having ties with the Gupta family. I am grateful to the noble Lord for bringing this information to our attention. As he acknowledged, he has already written to my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and I will, of course, bring his contribution to my right honourable friend’s attention.
The noble Viscount, Lord Waverley, referred to international collaboration. I thank him for his wise words on the importance of linking sanctions to strategy agreed with international allies. The global impact of sanctions can work only if there is consensus across like-minded states.
My noble friend Lord Gold referred to anti-money laundering regulations being risk-based and proportionate. I agree with him. He is right to highlight the importance of firms taking a proportionate approach to implementing anti-money laundering systems and controls, and ensuring that they properly target the highest risks in this regard.
The noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, asked about the Bill’s provision for general licences for humanitarian needs. I suggest to her that there are specific clauses on this issue. I will write to her in this respect but Clause 14(3)(a) allows the Government to issue specific and general licences. However, I am keen to hear her views on that, and those of the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, who was formerly a Minister with responsibility for this area, so it would be useful to hear from her. The noble Baroness, Lady Northover, asked whether we were talking. Yes, we are. My noble friend was sitting right next to me and we are working very closely with the Department for International Development in this regard.
The noble Baroness, Lady Northover, also referred to the anti-money laundering clause that was included at the last minute. That was always the plan, and she will have noticed that we have been transparent about this since the start. Our plans were set out in the FCO, HMT and DIT joint consultation, which was published in April, and confirmed in the government responses.
I apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Paddick: I will write to him on his specific questions as I had to leave the Chamber momentarily during his intervention. However, I thank him for it as we have talked about some of his concerns outside the Chamber. I hope that they have been addressed.
The noble Lord, Lord Collins, referred to licences for NGOs and said that they should be open-ended and last the duration of the regime. The Bill, as drafted, can deliver this.
I will write to noble Lords on any issues that I have not had time to cover today. Once again, I emphasise that the Bill is about powers rather than policy. It is not about punishing specific individuals, groups or Governments, but about enabling this Government, and every future UK Government, to act to keep this country safe and continue to play a responsible role in international peace and security once we leave the European Union.
It would be remiss of me not to conclude, entirely appropriately, by putting on record, if I may, the thanks of the whole House to my noble friend Lady Anelay. I embarrass her somewhat, but that is not my purpose. She has served both government and this House—and, indeed, our country—in an exemplary fashion. On a personal level, she was my first boss in government. She was the guiding hand of the Chief Whip when I first joined the Front Bench and acted not only as a guide, a mentor and a colleague but, most importantly, as a friend. She leaves the Front Bench with many fond memories, as she herself acknowledged in her contribution. Equally, however, the Front Bench has lost a great exponent of government policy who carries the full respect of this House. If I can emulate perhaps a portion of what my noble friend has achieved in her career, I will be a happy Peer. On that positive note, I thank all noble Lords again for their extremely valuable contributions and look forward to working with all across the Chamber on this important Bill.
Asset Freezing (Compensation) Bill [HL]
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon ExcerptsFriday 27th October 2017
(8 years, 3 months ago)
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The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Empey, and indeed all noble Lords for their contributions. We can all reflect on the poignancy of the issue in front of us, which concerns victims, who are at the heart of the intent behind the Bill. The Government do not take that lightly. I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Empey, on securing this Second Reading, and congratulate all noble Lords who have contributed. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Davies, for his kind remarks about me. However, I assure him that I do not regard responding to the Bill on a Friday as drawing the short straw. I know that it is half-term and, having three children who have not seen daddy much this week, this matter is a challenge. However, it underlines the importance that I, as a Minister of State at the Foreign Office, attach to this human rights issue, as does the UN, the Foreign Secretary and my colleague the right honourable Alistair Burt, who is the Minister with responsibility for the Middle East.
I am grateful for the opportunity to contribute to today’s debate and to speak about this important issue, which continues to be highly relevant in Parliament, not just in our House but in another place, as the noble Lord, Lord Davies, and others have said. In doing so, I acknowledge the valuable work of the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee in the other place. This includes the report it published in April on government support for UK victims of IRA attacks that used Semtex and weapons supplied by the former Libyan leader, Muammur Gaddafi. I say to my noble friend Lord Lexden that the Government responded in September to the report. If there are specific matters relating to the Government’s response, I will be happy to take them up with him outside the Chamber.
I reiterate that the Government regard this as a very long-standing issue, as we have heard today. It is complex and, of course, emotive. It is complicated further by the difficult economic, political and security circumstances that we see prevailing in Libya today. Only yesterday, I met Ann Clwyd from the Commons, who talked to me specifically about humanitarian assistance for the people of Libya. As the Prime Minister’s special representative on preventing sexual violence, I do not hide from the fact that what we see in Libya in that regard adds to the great horror of the situation on the ground.
However, I reassure noble Lords and make it clear that the Government remain absolutely focused on finding a way forward. In that regard I highlight a few of the recent events that have taken place. Over the past few weeks, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson, and the Minister for the Middle East, my right honourable friend Alistair Burt, have hosted meetings with victims’ groups and parliamentarians. I believe that the noble Lord, Lord Empey, was present at these meetings, the tone of which was positive, constructive and progressive. I also assure noble Lords, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Davies, that the Government have raised the bar. We continue to raise these issues regularly with the Libyan authorities directly. I have listened very carefully to the concerns expressed that victims’ groups alone cannot represent the tragedy that they have suffered, and continue to suffer. Therefore, it is right that the Foreign Secretary has raised this issue not once, not twice, but on three occasions recently with Prime Minister Sarraj, and we will continue to do so.
I also assure those who represent the interests of victims’ groups—I know many in this Chamber and in another place do so—that they do not go unheard. In addition to the commitment that my right honourable friends and Members across both Houses have given to continuing to hold meetings with victims’ groups, I assure them that I will continue to expend my energies working with the noble Lord and others to ensure that this issue retains the momentum that it deserves. Equally, I accept the criticism that while we are doing this we also need to ensure that we communicate about the efforts being undertaken. As I listened very carefully to the history of the IRA bombings, in particular the poignant words of my noble friend Lord Lexden, when he talked of the late Airey Neave, it struck a particular tone. Indeed, we heard from the noble and learned Lord, Lord Carswell, as well on this issue.
To give a personal reflection, I remember starting in the City of London back in the early 90s. For a young man just out of university who had started with NatWest, it was strange to suddenly hear the news that the place near his work in Bishopsgate had been hit. I remember it well: it was 24 April 1993—it remains engraved on my memory. I commuted to there, day in, day out. Thankfully, on that occasion, the number of victims was limited by the fact that it happened on a Saturday.
The point was well made by the noble Lord, Lord Empey, and others that we do not regard this as an issue for victims in one particular region. As he rightly articulated, it is relevant for the whole of the United Kingdom.
I turn now to the contents of the Bill. Its aim is to secure compensation for UK victims of terrorist organisations in the UK. It seeks to impose continuing restrictions on assets owned by persons who support and assist those organisations. It proposes also that where the assets of those who have supported terrorist organisations in the UK are currently frozen—in accordance with the UN Security Council resolutions and under the EU Council regulations which implement them, as several noble Lords have acknowledged—the Government should ensure that those assets are not released until agreement is reached on a compensation settlement for the victims.
The intention behind the Bill is honourable and clearly seeks to right a wrong perpetrated on innocent people. As we have heard from various noble Lords, including in the important intervention from the noble Lord, Lord Reid, weapons, funding, training and explosives provided by Gaddafi to the Provisional IRA exacerbated the Troubles. We have heard that the word “Semtex” became a regular feature in people’s minds, when previously it was unheard of. I fully acknowledge that it contributed to great human suffering in both Northern Ireland and across the rest of Great Britain. I fully understand that the Bill is designed to secure compensation for victims from those responsible for their suffering.
As several noble Lords acknowledged, we currently have around £9.5 billion of Libyan assets frozen throughout the UK. These assets were frozen under UN Security Council Resolution 1973 at the time of the revolution in 2011 at the request of those involved in toppling Gaddafi’s regime. It is believed that the majority of these assets either belong to the Libyan state as part of a sovereign wealth fund or their ownership is claimed by the Libyan state.
Noble Lords acknowledged that there are obligations on the part of the UK under both international and EU law that affect what can and cannot happen to Libyan assets frozen in the UK. Noble Lords will be aware of the difficulties that can be posed by freezing assets, particularly with relevance to the property rights protected under the European Convention on Human Rights.
Questions were raised about our obligations under international law. I assure noble Lords that we continue to focus on these specifically and keep them in mind while discussing the issue in front of us. It is important to remember that the ownership of some of these assets is still in dispute. Until those disputes are settled we cannot say for certain to whom the assets belong. The UN Security Council resolutions governing the Libya sanctions regime provide that the frozen assets, when they have been determined to belong to the Libyan state, are eventually to be made available to the Libyan people for their benefit. If the UK were to act so as to interfere with this purpose, we would be in breach of our obligations under international law. That having been said, we continue to raise this issue at the highest level with the Administration in Libya, including the Prime Minister. I hope that I have made that point clearly.
There are some practical difficulties with the Bill as drafted, including the proposed use of powers under the Terrorist Asset-Freezing (Temporary Provisions) Act 2010, known as TAFA. However, the Government are taking practical steps. In their recent meetings with parliamentarians and victims groups, both the Foreign Secretary and Mr Burt have made clear the Government’s intention to communicate effectively and step up engagement on this issue directly with the Libyan authorities to ensure that those efforts are visible and momentum continues. It is important we do that in the interests of victims and their representatives.
We need to recognise that the political situation in Libya remains extremely fragile. I assure noble Lords that the UK Government are currently working to support the UN-led political process in Libya to create a Government who are better able to deliver for the Libyan people and better able to take forward work on a wide range of issues, including legacy cases. The Foreign Office will remain actively engaged in supporting victims and their representatives to seek redress from the Libyan authorities. We will continue to press the Libyan Government to meet victims groups and will facilitate such meetings to discuss their campaign directly.
It is clear from the sentiments of contributions across the board this morning that nothing can compensate for the suffering of the victims and their families. However, as Minister of State in the Foreign Office, I, together with my colleagues the Minister of State for the Middle East and the Foreign Secretary, remain determined that we will play our part to support victims and their families as part of the Government’s wider efforts to address the legacy of the Troubles in Northern Ireland. I again thank the noble Lord, Lord Empey, for securing this important debate. I do that with the reassurance that we will continue to raise this issue directly with the Libyan Government. Whatever support I can extend to strengthen that effort, I will certainly give.
UN Security Council: Information Sharing
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts(8 years, 3 months ago)
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Lord Triesman
To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of the recent meeting of the United Nations General Assembly, what assessment they have made of how the United Kingdom and fellow permanent members of the Security Council can improve the sharing of analysis and co-ordination with allies to ensure enhanced security.
The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)
My Lords, the United Kingdom is committed to working through the UN Security Council to address threats to international peace and security. We will continue to share analysis with fellow members of the council through informal consultations. During this year’s UN General Assembly high-level week, our efforts were instrumental in ensuring that the international community united to adopt unanimously UNSCR 2379 to help ensure that Daesh is held accountable for the crimes it has committed.
Lord Triesman (Lab)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his response. The United States is a vital ally and a close historic friend but it is hard to share values with its commander-in-chief. During his UNGA speech, he threatened to obliterate at least one, and possibly two, other nations by nuclear means, denounced the Paris climate accords, and has on other occasions expressed his belief that torture is a normal course of events. Given the number of experienced diplomats and internationalists in your Lordships’ House, can the Government share with them how they intend to make a relationship with those at the top of the American Administration to improve our peace and security?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
My Lords, the noble Lord raises an important point about international relations, and in that regard I assure him that we have a very deep and long historic relationship with the United States. It is a strong relationship because we share objectives on many fronts. Equally, the strength of that relationship determines that when we disagree on important issues, as the noble Lord has highlighted, we also make that position quite clear; climate change was one issue, as was the recent issue of the Iran nuclear deal. In both those instances, we made it clear that we believe it was regrettable that the US took the stance that it did. That position has been made clear to President Trump by our Prime Minister. However, the strength of our relationship allows us to have those very candid conversations with the US and, indeed, others, when we do disagree.
Lord West of Spithead (Lab)
My Lords, we are the only permanent member of the Security Council that is reducing the size of its armed forces; indeed, we have reduced it by a third since 2010. Does the Minister not think this must make the other members of the Security Council wonder about our eligibility to be there; and, indeed, make other members of the UN consider how important we believe maintaining security and peace around the world actually is?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
The noble Lord knows that our Armed Forces remain very strong and that we are at the forefront of relations with regard to peacekeeping. Indeed, I will talk about this very subject at the UN Security Council next week. Contrary to what the noble Lord has expressed, our partners not just in the Security Council but across the General Assembly welcome the United Kingdom’s leadership on a raft of different issues, most recently the Prime Minister’s personal initiative in leading the charge to combat modern slavery.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, building security requires more than co-operation on military and intelligence issues; it obviously involves co-operating with a range of countries. Of course, Brexit will be a crucial issue in maintaining that co-operation. The noble Lord is right to point out that we have led in Europe. If we are not there in Europe, how will we build security? What will be the mechanisms to ensure that we build security and lead on it globally?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
When I saw that this Question had been tabled, I said to officials that it might go quite wide—and, indeed, we have a Brexit-related question. First and foremost, I assure the noble Lord that of course, we continue to have constructive and productive discussions with our European partners. I am confident, as are all members of the Government, that we will reach a progressive and productive end to those discussions in terms of a new relationship with our partners in the European Union. Let me give the noble Lord a practical example. Most recently, the Prime Minister herself led on the important issue of security and countering terrorism, particularly on the internet. She chaired that meeting at the UN, together with the President of France and the Prime Minister of Italy. That underlines the co-operation we have in important areas such as security and countering terrorism. That is continuing, and will continue.
Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)
My Lords, I wonder whether the answer to the question posed by the noble Lord, Lord Triesman, is that we should pay more attention to the generals in the White House, who appear to have achieved something approaching a military coup, albeit with civilian purpose. It is quite right to point to the difficulties of the relationship, but one area that has not been discussed so far is cyberwarfare. Cyberwarfare between permanent members of the Security Council is hardly likely to increase confidence. If analysis were to be of any effect, it would necessarily involve the exchange of intelligence. Intelligence exchanged among the five would inevitably be intelligence available to the 190-odd members of the United Nations. Finally, although it makes a small contribution to security, should not the United Kingdom—and, indeed, the Security Council—be concentrating on drug and people trafficking, counterterrorism, as has been mentioned, and crimes against humanity?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
Perhaps I may take the final point first. Of course we are looking at crimes against humanity. That is why the United Kingdom led the resolution to counter Daesh, and I was delighted to report back that not just the permanent members but all members of the Security Council supported that resolution unanimously. On cyberwarfare and security, of course we continue to co-operate internationally. We continue to work constructively with groups such as Five Eyes and other European partners, sharing intelligence to ensure that we counter the narrative of the extremists and any evil intent not just in the interests of our security, but of Europe and globally.
Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)
My Lords, the United States is of course a good friend, but is it not nowadays merely one part of the much larger new pattern of networks that are emerging across the world, including Asia and the developing world, in which we have to integrate very closely on security and other matters? One of those networks is the Commonwealth, although there are many others. Does he agree that we have to work much more closely with all of them than we have in the past?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
My noble friend is correct. Brexit provides a huge opportunity not only to form a new relationship with the European Union but to strengthen our global relationships. The noble Lord shakes his head. I think that the Commonwealth is important: 52 nations coming together on the common pillars of language and history, and with a common future, to tackle important issues such as modern slavery and cybersecurity. That is what the global Britain aspect is all about—strengthening our relationships not just in Europe but around the world.
Raqqa and Daesh
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts(8 years, 3 months ago)
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The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)
My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat in the form of a Statement the Answer to an Urgent Question asked in the other place on the liberation of Raqqa:
“Raqqa was officially liberated on 20 October. The Syrian Democratic Forces—the SDF—supported by the global coalition against Daesh, began operations to liberate Raqqa in June 2017. Military operations are ongoing.
My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Defence has highlighted the continued leading role that the UK is playing as part of the global coalition’s counter-Daesh campaign. The UK is the second-largest military contributor to the global coalition and plays a leading role in the humanitarian response.
The liberation of Raqqa this month follows significant Daesh territorial losses in Iraq, including Mosul in July. Daesh has now lost over 90% of the territory it once occupied in Iraq and Syria. The Foreign Secretary will in due course provide a full update to the House on the counter-Daesh campaign, including the operation to liberate Raqqa”.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for repeating the response to that Urgent Question. I note that the Foreign Secretary will be giving a further, more detailed report to the other place and I hope that the noble Lord will be able to do likewise here. I have two brief questions. First, in the other place the Minister said that discussions about the future of the coalition were ongoing. Can the noble Lord tell us what role the armed groups that helped liberate the city from Daesh will play in its future administration and what we can do to assist? Secondly—I raised this point in the House last week, I think—we have seen horrendous crimes against humanity from all sides. It is important that the Government continue to support those who are gathering evidence so that ultimately we hold those responsible fully to account.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
I thank the noble Lord for his continued support on these issues. He asked, first, what happens next. Our partner forces will close in on Daesh elsewhere in Syria. He will know that it is still present in the Euphrates river valley and on the border with Iraq. There, the Syrian efforts will meet up with those of the Iraqi security forces, closing in on Daesh from both sides. The noble Lord’s second point is well made, as I have acknowledged previously. He is right to say that those on all sides who have committed crimes should be brought to justice. On Daesh-specific issues, in 2017 I was pleased to report back from the UN General Assembly that a resolution was passed specifically on the UK’s efforts, including £1 million allocated by this country, to ensure not only evidence-gathering but the quick creation of a full investigation under the auspices of the UN to deal with Daesh. Other elements of the Syrian regime should also be fully accountable before international law.
Baroness Northover (LD)
My Lords, I understand that 80% of Raqqa has been destroyed in the attempt to root out Daesh. What does the Minister think is the likely timescale for reconstruction? When might refugees be able to return and how might they be protected against any risks from the Assad Government?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
This is an issue about which the noble Baroness and I have spoken on several occasions. She is right to point out the destruction in Raqqa. It is terribly regrettable that, because this was urban warfare, many buildings and much infrastructure were destroyed, and let us not forget that Daesh destroyed much of the remaining infrastructure. That said, she will know that we have stepped up our humanitarian support in this regard. At the weekend, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for International Development announced an additional £10 million to restore crippled health facilities and deliver much-needed medical support and relief. On her final point, safety and security remain the primary concern. As I have mentioned to the noble Baroness before, we will not engage in large-scale redevelopment of infrastructure in Syria until we can ensure both the political settlement and the safety and security of all citizens.
Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)
My Lords, regardless of what the Government have done at the Security Council in ensuring that evidence will be collected to bring those responsible for these crimes to trial, and building on the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, what will happen next? What structures are we putting in place, either for a referral to the International Criminal Court or to a specially appointed regional tribunal to try those responsible for genocide and crimes against humanity? Surely our belief in the rule of law and perhaps the invocation of something like the Treason Act would be more appropriate in bringing British nationals to justice than yesterday’s statement from Rory Stewart, according with statements from the White House, that people could be shot on sight if they had participated in these heinous crimes.
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
On the final point the noble Lord raises, let us be clear that people— certainly those of British nationality—who have travelled from anywhere in the world into the region and taken part in the crimes committed by Daesh were doing so at their own risk and were putting themselves into the line of fire. There is the important issue, he says, about bringing people to justice. He will be fully aware of the structured programme in which the CPS and the police are making criminal charges against those returning to the UK. Secondly, there is the issue of the International Criminal Court and other such bodies. As I have already alluded to, we have passed a resolution in the UN and we are currently looking at the governance structure, exactly as the noble Lord suggests. The final structure is to be determined, but it will respect all the norms of international law.
Viscount Hailsham (Con)
My Lords, while I accept that lethal force can properly be used against those fighting for ISIS, including British citizens if they pose an immediate and real threat to the interests of ourselves or our allies, does my noble friend agree that this policy should be exercised with great caution and that it would be helpful if we had a fuller explanation of both the criteria and the controls?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
I agree with my noble friend, of course. In any such situation, any intervention or military action should be exercised with strict rules of engagement. As I alluded to earlier in response to the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, we seek first of all to minimise civilian casualties in any action our military is taking. Secondly, on holding those to account, the important thing is that international law and rules of justice are upheld, whether for those surrendering themselves to coalition forces or to the Syrian coalition forces on the ground, or indeed those returning to any part of the world.
The Lord Bishop of Salisbury
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his statement and point out that the Christian presence in Iraq is integral to that country’s cultural identity. A reconstruction committee composed of Chaldean, Syriac and Syriac Orthodox churches has restored over 1,700 properties, but that will restore fewer than a quarter of internationally displaced people. What can the Government do to help those displaced Christians to return safely to that space, like Jonah returning to Nineveh, a place where they belong and are called? How can the Government support them in that process where there is a real threat in terms of faith?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
The right reverend Prelate is right to raise the issue of minorities and particularly the Christian minorities in Syria. The crimes committed in Aleppo have been a tragic example of the regime of Bashar al-Assad. I revert to the point I made earlier that any support that the British Government give to those returning is done to ensure their safety and security. We have begun to do exactly that in ensuring that, in the areas where people are returning, medical facilities are available including to all minorities who have been displaced. Let us not forget that over 50% of the Syrian population has been displaced. It will take time to ensure that they can return to their homes. Underlining our approach, both safety and security must prevail.
Lord Reid of Cardowan (Lab)
My Lords, I am sure the whole House welcomes the liberation of Raqqa, but deeply regrets both the physical and human cost of Daesh’s control of that area. Is the Minister in a position to say more about the breakdown and balance of the anti-Daesh forces now in control of Raqqa and that area, and anything about the co-ordination and co-operation between them for the future?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
The noble Lord raises an important point. We have been supporting the coalition forces and the SDF. I acknowledge that the Russians have also been engaged directly in support of the regime forces. We are clear that the Assad regime initiated this conflict. Although a lasting resolution is very much a matter for the Syrian people, we do not believe it is right that the person who initiated this conflict should be involved in the final, lasting solution. Various international players are working on the ground. I reassure the noble Lord on our actions. The United Nations resolution specifically on Daesh was passed with unanimity, including support from Russia.
Lord Wright of Richmond (CB)
Did the Minister see a letter in the Financial Times yesterday, saying that Raqqa is in Syria and reminding its readers that the Syrian regime bears a heavy responsibility for the clearance of ISIS from the city? Does he agree?
Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon
I have not seen the letter, but I align myself with the sentiments expressed in it and by the noble Lord. The responsibility for the larger conflict—not just in Raqqa—lies firmly on the doorstep of the Assad regime which created it in the first place. Daesh emerged as a symptom, created by what was happening on the ground. Wherever there is a vacuum and vulnerability, Daesh has reared its head. Although we all breathe a large sigh of relief on its defeat, we are not complacent in any way. Let us not forget that Daesh has recreated itself before and I am sure it is looking to regroup and do so again.