Yemen: Humanitarian and Political Situation

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 20th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat a Statement delivered in another place by my right honourable friend Alistair Burt, the Minister for the Middle East and North Africa. The Statement is as follows:

“With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a Statement to the House on the humanitarian and political situation in Yemen and the implications of the conflict for regional security.

Her Majesty’s Government remain deeply concerned by the humanitarian situation in Yemen and the impact recent restrictions are having on what was already the worst humanitarian crisis in the world and largest ever cholera outbreak. We recognise the risk of a severe deterioration of the humanitarian situation if restrictions are not quickly removed, and call on all parties to ensure immediate access for commercial and humanitarian supplies through all Yemen’s land, air and sea ports.

But we should be clear about the reality of the conflict in Yemen. The Saudi-led coalition launched a military intervention after a rebel insurgency took the capital by force and overthrew the legitimate Government of Yemen as recognised by the UN Security Council. Ungoverned spaces in Yemen are being used by non-state actors and terrorist groups to launch attacks against regional countries, international shipping lanes and the Yemeni people. As my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has made clear, we strongly condemn the attempted missile attack against Riyadh on 4 November. This attack, which has been claimed by the Houthis, deliberately targeted a civilian area and was intercepted over an international airport.

The United Kingdom remains committed to supporting Saudi Arabia to address its legitimate security needs. We are therefore deeply concerned by reports that Iran has provided the Houthis with ballistic missiles. This is contrary to the arms embargo established by UN Security Council Resolution 2216 and serves to threaten regional security and prolong the conflict.

I understand that a UN team is currently visiting Riyadh to investigate these reports. It is essential that the UN conducts a thorough investigation. The UK stands ready to share its expertise to support this process, but we recognise that those who suffer most from this conflict are the people of Yemen. We understand why the Saudi-led coalition felt obliged temporarily to close Yemen’s ports and airports in order to strengthen enforcement of the UN-mandated arms embargo. It is critical that international efforts to disrupt illicit weapons flows are strengthened.

At the same time, it is vital that commercial and humanitarian supplies of food, fuel and medicine are able to reach vulnerable Yemeni people, particularly in the north, where 70% of those in need live. Even before the current restrictions, 21 million people were already in need of humanitarian assistance, and 7 million people were only a single step away from famine. Some 90% of food in Yemen is imported, and three-quarters of that comes via the ports of Hodeidah and Salif. No other ports in Yemen have the capacity to make up that shortfall. Our NGO partners in Yemen are already reporting that water and sewerage systems in major cities have stopped operating because of a lack of fuel. This means that millions no longer have access to clean water and sanitation, in a country already suffering from the worst cholera outbreak in modern times.

The current restrictions on access for both commercial and humanitarian shipments risk making an already dire situation immeasurably worse for the Yemeni people. We have heard the UN’s stark warnings about the risk of famine. So again I say that we call on all parties to ensure immediate access for commercial and humanitarian supplies to avert the threat of starvation and disease faced by millions of civilians.

We also call for the immediate reopening of Hodeidah port and the resumption of UN flights into Sanaa and Aden airports, as the Foreign Office statement on 15 November made clear. Restrictions on humanitarian flights are causing problems for humanitarian workers, including British nationals, who wish to enter or exit the country.

We have been urgently and proactively seeking a resolution of this situation. Our ambassador in Riyadh has been in frequent contact with the Saudi Foreign Minister. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has discussed the situation in Yemen with the Crown Prince, with whom we have emphasised the urgency of addressing the worsening humanitarian crisis. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for International Development, since her appointment on 9 November, has spoken to both the UN Secretary-General and the Under-Secretary-General for Humanitarian Affairs about the situation in Yemen.

We are also continuing to work closely with other regional and international partners, including the UN. On 18 November, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary spoke to the UN Secretary-General. Central to this discussion was how the security concerns of Saudi Arabia can be addressed to enable these restrictions to be lifted. It is vital that the UN and Saudi Arabia enter into a meaningful and constructive dialogue on this.

More broadly, we will continue to support the people of Yemen through the provision of life-saving humanitarian supplies. The UK is the fourth largest humanitarian donor to Yemen and the second largest to the UN appeal, committing £155 million to Yemen for 2017-18. UK aid has already provided food to almost 2 million people and clean water to more than 1 million more.

The only way to bring long-term stability to Yemen is through a political solution. That is why peace talks remain the top priority. The Houthis must abandon preconditions and engage with the UN special envoy’s proposals. The UK has played, and continues to play, a leading role in the diplomatic efforts to find a peaceful solution. This includes bringing together key international actors, including the US, Saudi Arabia, and Emirati and Omani allies, through the Quad and Quint process. We intend to convene another such meeting shortly. It is vital that we work together to refocus the political track.

The UK will also continue to play a leading role on Yemen through the UN. In June, we proposed and supported the UN Security Council presidential statement, which expressed deep concern about the humanitarian situation in Yemen. The statement called for an end to fighting and a return to UN-led peace talks, and stressed the importance of unhindered humanitarian access. It is vital that the words of the text be converted into action. The international community’s unified and clear demands must be respected. I commend this statement to the House”.

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[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. Yemen now faces an intensified blockade. As he indicated, the UN estimates that 7 million are at risk of dying from starvation. As he has said, Yemen imports up to 90% of its daily needs, including fuel. The situation is therefore appalling. What is the upshot of the recent discussions, which the Minister mentioned, that Ministers have had with their Saudi counterparts regarding humanitarian access to Yemen’s population?

Criticism has been made of the UK because we assist with humanitarian help but also sell arms to Saudi Arabia. What discussions has the Foreign Secretary had with the Secretary of State for Defence regarding UK arms sales to Saudi Arabia?

What hopes does the Minister have for the efficacy of working with international partners to restart the peace process in Yemen, which again he mentioned? What recent assessment have the Government made of the need for an independent investigation of possible war crimes committed by both sides of the conflict in Yemen? In terms of the humanitarian situation, how will fuel shortages be immediately addressed? Is it recognised that this has an impact on the availability of drinkable water and that hospitals cannot be kept open without power? Does he note that refrigeration units for essential medicines are being turned off for periods of time to save fuel? What is being done to address the lack of medicines? Is he concerned that cholera and diphtheria are among some of the diseases that are currently spreading?

Does the Minister agree that food distribution systems are now under severe threat? Does he agree—it sounds as if he does—that the reopening of Aden port is simply not enough in this situation? Does he agree with those who say that what is happening amounts to collective punishment—holding a civilian population accountable? Does he agree that Saudi Arabia must lift or at least ease the blockade, and that if this does not happen we will see images of man-made famine within days?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord and the noble Baroness for their comments. I agree with the content and the sentiments that they have expressed. Not only have we all been appalled by the horrors that we have seen unfolding on our screens but the situation is, in its utmost sense, really impacting the people who have suffered the most—the Yemeni people.

Picking up some of the specific questions, I assure all noble Lords, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, that the United Kingdom continues to work at all levels. I alluded in the Statement to our work in the Quint and the Quad. We believe that those regional partners are essential in bringing peace to Yemen. I will be very open, and I have said this before about the situation in Yemen, that there are proxy wars fought within that country and it is important that all parties now call a halt to allow for humanitarian access. We maintain that a political solution and peace talks are the top priority and that a political solution is the best way to bring long-term stability. In that regard, the UK continues to support the efforts of the UN special envoy and—again, as I alluded to in the Statement—we are looking to call a meeting of the Quint and the Quad in the near future.

I mentioned, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and the noble Baroness, picked up, recent meetings with the Secretary-General of the United Nations. I was present in a meeting with the Foreign Secretary when this matter was discussed in great detail. We continue to make representations at the UN Security Council—I am sure that we all acknowledge the efforts of Ambassador Rycroft in this regard—but there are challenges to achieve the consensus required in the Security Council to get the traction that we saw from the presidential statement made in June this year.

The noble Baroness asked about the spiralling cholera crisis and the specific issue of diseases which are impacting the local Yemeni population. In that regard, I assure her that our response continues to be about prioritising life-saving food for 1.8 million people for at least a month, nutrition support for 1.7 million people and water and sanitation, which is acutely required, for 1.2 million people.

As well as providing this aid, the UK continues to play a leading role in lobbying all parties to allow safe, rapid and unhindered humanitarian access. To ensure that, of course we make representations at the highest level to the Saudi authorities, who continue to assure us that their intent is not to cause starvation but to ensure that missiles do not enter Yemen. However, we have once again stressed to them that any security concerns must also address the deeply harrowing scenes that we see of a deteriorating humanitarian crisis. We continue to lobby very hard in this respect.

The noble Lord and the noble Baroness also raised the issue of arms support to Saudi Arabia. I assure all noble Lords that the key test for our continued arms support to Saudi Arabia in relation to international humanitarian law is whether there is a clear risk that those items subject to the licence might be used in a serious violation. The situation, as the noble Lord acknowledged, is kept under review. When it was tested in the summer, the particular Divisional Court statement dismissed the claim that these arms may be used in the conflict in Yemen, but we continue to stress to all authorities and all parties that the first and primary aim must be to secure humanitarian access and that to do so requires the opening up of both ports and the airport. In doing so, we will continue to work with international partners to ensure that that can be done safely to allow the access which is so desperately required.

[Lord Marlesford (Con)]

My Lords, was Her Majesty’s Government in a position to warn Prince Mohammed bin Salman, then defence Minister, now Crown Prince, how unwise it would be to intervene in this military conflict, for several reasons? The obvious one is that using sophisticated western weapons on their own would never win that war. The only way, as we have seen in Iraq and Syria, is boots on the ground, and the last time there was a major boots-on-the-ground intervention in Yemen was in 1964-66, when Egypt suffered 28,000 casualties.

Secondly, does he realise how undesirable it has been to extend the Sunni-Shia conflict in this way? Thirdly, it is very clear that the humanitarian results have been a disaster. Fourthly, the Statement referred to the ungoverned spaces. Those of us who have been to Yemen know that a large part of the interior of Yemen is ungoverned. The Sanaa Government had control only over the main highways. Finally, does he realise how dangerous it has been for Saudi Arabia itself? It is not unconnected with the recent purge of princes in Saudi Arabia, under the pretext of fighting corruption.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend makes a number of important points. I can assure him on one of the central points that he makes, when he gets to the heart or crux of the challenge and the issue on the ground in Yemen—the protracted dispute and regional rivalries being played out in Yemen. In recent history, the current crisis was exacerbated when the then legitimate Government, who had support, was removed by the rebel Houthis, supported again by other regional players in the area. It is important to recognise, as he says, that, as we have made clear to all parties, including the Saudis, protracted conflict through use of military actions and the restrictions that are being applied will not result in the long-term solution required on the ground, which can be achieved only by all parties coming together. That is what we are emphasising not just through the political solution that we seek through the United Nations but through the work that we are doing with key regional players, including the Emiratis—yes, the Saudis as well—but also the Omanis, in ensuring that through the Quint and the Quad we bring all relevant parties forward towards that political solution.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Government accept that their one-sided approach to this whole crisis is prolonging it? The Minister made criticisms of Iran, and rightly so, but he made no criticisms at all of the Saudis, although their strategy is acting as a recruiting sergeant for militant rebels and encouraging Iranian influence in the region. Surely, there should be an even-handed attitude between Iran and Saudi Arabia to get both to accept their responsibilities for this conflict, or we will see a disaster on the kind of scale that we have seen in Syria—and I say that as a former UK Middle East Minister.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Of course, the noble Lord speaks with experience in this regard. I assure him that, as I have said already from this Dispatch Box, not just today but previously as well, regional conflicts are being played out not just in Yemen but in other parts of the Middle East, which tragically go back to a core conflict that exists in the schism, tragically, in the Islamic faith. However, that should not detract from the fact that the United Kingdom, as I assure him and all noble Lords, makes the strongest representations to the Saudis. I assure him that we have tried to ensure that the Saudis and all regional partners bring to an end this conflict, which has gone on for far too long.

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds]

My Lords, I endorse entirely what the noble Lord, Lord Hain, has just said, but I would really want a further commitment. The Statement said:

“The United Kingdom remains committed to supporting Saudi Arabia to address its legitimate security”,


concerns, which of course are complex. Does that mean that we apply pressure on the Saudis as well to lift the blockade? We know that there are other agendas running in Saudi Arabia and that its policy is stuck in Yemen—it has got into a position that it did not want to be in. But the sheer volume of arms sales that we make to Saudi Arabia surely gives us some clout in exerting considerable pressure.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the right reverend Prelate. That is why we have done that, not only through bilateral representations but in international fora as well—indeed, as the Human Rights Minister in the Foreign and Commonwealth Office at the Human Rights Council in September, I made specific reference to the situation on the ground in Yemen. Of course, whether they are our allies or friends, we have leverage over them in influencing their policies and decisions and we continue to make representations to the Saudi Government. I assure him that we take our arms export licence responsibilities very seriously and operate one of the most robust arms and export control regimes. In doing so, we seek to ensure that all elements of international humanitarian law are respected—a point that we have repeatedly made to the Saudi Arabian Government and other members of the military coalition as well.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, I am sure that the noble Lord is aware that, even at the height of the tension between the international community and Iraq, food and medicine were never cut off. Surely this point should be made forcefully to the Saudi Government. It is no good saying that they are cutting it off in order to make sure that no missiles are shipped in. Frankly, that is not very convincing. Will the Minister look again at the recommendation that the International Relations Committee of this House made in its report in April: namely, that it might be necessary to tell the Saudi Government very quietly—not noisily, but quietly—that if they do not play a more helpful role in this conflict, we will have to consider cutting off some of the licences we currently have? Could he please take that back and look at it again? It was a very serious recommendation; it was not a recommendation to stop all arms sales to Saudi, which would be quite unrealistic. Could he look at that again, because I think the circumstances are such that we cannot just go on wringing our hands? The Statement made all the right remarks—but none of it is happening.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure the noble Lord, who speaks from great international experience in this regard, that I agree with him that we need to ensure that all levers and influences are brought into play to ensure that all parties, including the Saudis, make all the necessary efforts to ensure that all life-saving aid—and not just life-saving aid but humanitarian aid—is delivered unrestricted. He pointed to the International Relations Committee report and I will, of course, look at it again.

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine (LD)]

My Lords, given his role as a human rights Minister, does the noble Lord accept that Saudi Arabia’s presence on the Human Rights Council is deeply unhelpful? Is he aware of the UN’s own report, issued today, which states that the highest number of human rights-violating states have now been elected to the UN Human Rights Council? Does he think it is good enough for the Human Rights Council to have asked for a review of the situation in Yemen, which will give an oral report back in March and a written report only in September next year? Why do Her Majesty’s Government not convene an extraordinary meeting of the Human Rights Council? You only need a third of members: 16 states. That is all the noble Lord has to do. He talks about working with other allies; he could start with the EU.

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure the noble Baroness that I take a very robust approach to ensuring that we call out human rights violations through our membership of the Human Rights Council, as I am sure she well knows. The other members of the Human Rights Council are, of course, democratically voted for. I reassure her that we raise all issues connected with any kind of human rights violations regularly and consistently—and not just at the Human Rights Council. On this particular issue we have pressed very hard to reach the consensus that is required in the context of the UN Security Council. British pressure was brought to bear. That is one of the key areas where we will see traction at political level. The noble Baroness knows the area very well, and the different players involved and the different influences on the different parties to this conflict. Therefore, concerted political will is required at an international level—at the highest level—to get the peace settlement to this conflict that we all seek.

[Baroness Goudie (Lab)]

My Lords, today is Universal Children’s Day and it is appalling that we see children in Yemen in this situation. As we know, women and children bear the brunt in all war-torn areas, and this war-torn area is much worse than anything else. The Statement talks about bringing the parties together. Are local women part of that undertaking?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

First, the noble Baroness makes a pertinent point. In any conflict, tragedy or humanitarian crisis across the world, it is tragic that the most vulnerable, but particularly women and young children, suffer the most. I am acutely aware that the tragedy unfolding in Yemen is impacting on them. That is why we have stressed the importance of opening up humanitarian access. On how we move the situation forward, in terms of groups on the ground, this will require a political settlement. However, I say openly that it will require political will at a much more senior and international level to ensure that we get that engagement. However, for a final solution we will absolutely require local players, including local women’s groups, to ensure that we get not only access but sustainable humanitarian access points, not just for a week or two but during the resolution of the conflict.

[Baroness Hayman (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister said that Her Majesty’s Government had been assured that it was not the intention of the blockade to cause starvation. However, in a country where 7 million people are dependent on food aid, if it cannot get through, that is exactly the effect of the blockade—and because of that effect people are dying. Last week the Disasters Emergency Committee—I declare my interest as a trustee—described the humanitarian situation as “catastrophic” in terms of access to food, medicines and supplies. Will the Minister take seriously the words of my noble friend Lord Hannay and look at how we can avoid, in another fortnight’s time, having exactly the same debate in this Chamber but see some progress—if not on the eventual political solution, which we all know is necessary, then on ending this catastrophic blockade?

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the sentiments expressed by the noble Baroness. We are all at one on the issue that needs to be resolved first, which is that of ensuring not just immediate but consistent access to those who need humanitarian and acute medical assistance on the ground. The Government’s Statement that I repeated earlier is clear. I assure noble Lords that we are working to ensure that the first priority is that humanitarian access. Of course, I listen carefully to the representations which are made in this House and I will certainly consider them further.

[Lord Lea of Crondall (Lab)]

My Lords, not many questions on this dreadful situation have a yes or no answer—but one question certainly does, and it has been alluded to by almost every speaker. I refer to arms sales. A month or so ago the Minister’s predecessor, the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay of St Johns, answered a question from me on why we have a dog in this fight. She said that we do not and that we are even-handed—or words to that effect. If that is the case, can the Minister confirm or deny the reports, which are very persistent, that British arms are going to one side and not to the other? That is not even-handed. So my question is: is that true—yes or no?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord asked for a yes or no answer. If you are supporting Saudi Arabia as an ally of the United Kingdom, you are supporting an ally, and you do not resolve a conflict by providing arms to AN Other. We provide arms exports to Saudi Arabia, which we acknowledge. At all times we impress on it the need to respect international humanitarian law. However, I repeat what I said earlier. A judgment on 10 July dismissed a claim brought by the Campaign Against Arms Trade concerning arms exports to Saudi Arabia for possible use in the conflict in Yemen. The judgment recognised Her Majesty’s Government’s rigorous and robust processes to ensure that UK defence exports are licensed consistent with the consolidated EU and national arms exports licensing criteria. We are very particular about ensuring that that basis is retained and we continue our review quite robustly in that regard. The noble Lord said that this was a complex situation, and I agree. However, as I said, if you supply arms to an ally, a resolution is not to be found by ensuring that you supply to the other side as well.

[Lord Elystan-Morgan (CB)]

My Lords, without in any way seeking to minimise or absent the questions relating to military intervention and famine, perhaps I may ask the Minister about cholera. There have been 575,000 cases since 27 April, when the epidemic was first declared, and it is getting worse all the time. However, there cannot be any solution unless a plenitude of clean water is provided for the community. Can the Government say what priority they are giving to that crucial aspect?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord raises a very valid point. Obviously, the disease that has followed the conflict is down to a lack of sanitation and clean water. The noble Lord points to statistics, and it is true that the situation on the ground gets worse not just every week but every day. I assure him that our priority in humanitarian terms is to look at providing appropriate vaccines, but the focus is also very much on water and sanitation—the issue that he rightly raised.

Permanent Structured Cooperation

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 16th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord West of Spithead]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of the Permanent Structured Cooperation process agreed by 23 European Union member states on 13 November.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon)]

My Lords, as my noble friend Lord Howe affirmed to our EU partners at Monday’s Foreign Affairs Council with Defence Ministers, we welcome Permanent Structured Cooperation as a useful tool to support the development of the capabilities that Europe needs for its security, provided it remains complementary to NATO and encourages EU-NATO co-operation. The United Kingdom’s approach reflects our continuing commitment to European defence and security and to protecting the interests of UK industry.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. I have to say that it does not really reassure me. Since 1945, the United Kingdom—until recently, when we started decimating our Armed Forces—and the United States have ensured the defence and security of Europe. The security of the continent of Europe is crucial to the United Kingdom. The Permanent Structured Cooperation process, which involves troops, procurement and a whole raft of defence issues is very misguided. There is no doubt whatever that the heirs to Marshal Zhukov in Russia understand hard combat power. They are not impressed by talking shops, headquarters and posturing. The co-operation process is full of all those. Could the Minister ensure that the United Kingdom is fully involved in this process and at the heart of Europe in defence terms, because we cannot let Europe go running off, not achieving anything and not looking after its security? We are good at this and we need to be fully involved.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Let me assure the noble Lord that we continue to partake in discussions about this. I agree with his points about the cornerstone of the alliance and particularly the work of NATO to ensure not just peace and security across Europe but its benefits further afield as well. It is essential that, as the United Kingdom leaves the European Union, whatever partnership its remaining members choose to take forward, opportunities remain for co-operation directly with NATO of which the United Kingdom is an important and pivotal part.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, does the Minister recall the position paper published only a couple of months ago on our constructive and useful co-operation with the EU in foreign policy and defence during the last 40 years, which left open the question of how we shall continue it? Does this development not make it more urgent for the Government to spell out how they will do this? Does he not agree that the Foreign Secretary’s response that we welcome it, we wish to co-operate and our relationship will be like that of a flying buttress to a cathedral—a very overused phrase intended to confuse us all—was inadequate?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary was reiterating the importance of our continued relationship with the European Union while we remain a member of it, but also that we want a different but strong partnership with it once we leave. That includes these two important areas of defence and security, which we have just touched on and in which the UK has led the way. We are making our view known that an option should remain within Permanent Structured Cooperation in those areas of defence and security for third countries to join at an appropriate time for whatever projects are perceived to be of mutual importance to both—be it NATO and, say, this new organisation, in whatever shape or form it takes. This would allow the UK to continue to co-operate with European partners after we leave the EU.

[Lord Ricketts (CB)]

My Lords, may I endorse what the Minister says about the importance of continuing co-operation with the EU? If this initiative leads to improved European defence capacity, it would be a good thing for this country and we ought to be looking to continue working in European military missions around the world, as we have been doing, where they are in our interests.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the noble Lord. When we look at the detail of some of the projects—not just in defence and security; it could be, for example, hospitals that have been created through defence interventions in certain parts of the world—it is our view that projects that resonate with the common objectives of the United Kingdom and, importantly, those of NATO should continue to provide the opportunity for continued co-operation after the UK leaves the European Union.

[Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)]

My Lords, given the less than clear commitment of the US to NATO, and given that we, after Brexit, will be looking for a new role in the world, surely that role in defence should be pivotal in Europe. What Europe needs is combat power and, as my noble friend the Admiral has pointed out, this is an area in which we are uniquely able to assist. This is no time to be stepping away from Europe. Why were the Government not more involved in the development of PESCO and do they intend to put more effort into getting closer to Europe so that we may play a proper role in the future?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As has been said numerous times, first and foremost, yes. I refer back to our discussions on the previous Oral Question about where we stand: the UK is leaving the European Union but, as I have said repeatedly from this Dispatch Box, we are not in any way stepping away from our obligations. There will be co-operation, particularly in the areas of defence and security, which are important not just to the remaining members of the European Union but to the United Kingdom as a member of the European continent and a member of NATO. Co-operation and partnership are key, and we look forward to a renewed but different style of partnership with our European Union partners. We will continue to co-operate in areas of common interest.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, in reference to the previous Question and this one, is it not worth bearing in mind that, in modern warfare, algorithms are as relevant and powerful as armouries? We are now moving into a stage where the very high level of technology, communications, connections and cyberwarfare is just as important as manpower on the ground and hard-power equipment. Can my noble friend assure us that, in all areas of technology relating to cyberwarfare, we will keep extremely close to our neighbours and our allies in NATO, and that this is the most important area of co-operation of all? Without it, we are lost.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend raises the very important point that the challenges that we face in the modern age are very different from what they were 20 or 30 years ago. I agree with him on the principles that he raises and reassure him that, as we discuss it with our American allies and our European allies, there will remain strong co-operation on ensuring that we work on cyberdefences collaboratively.

West Papua

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 15th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the petition presented to the United Nations by the people of West Papua requesting that the United Nations carry out its 1962 commitment to let the West Papuan people exercise the right of self-determination.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we are aware of recent media reporting on a petition on Papuan independence. We have not received a copy. The relevant UN bodies have informed us that the petition has not been formally submitted to them. We will of course continue to follow the situation in Papua with great interest.

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth (CB)]

I thank the Minister for his Answer, but does he agree that this petition was truly remarkable? It was signed by 1,804,421 people inside the country, 95.77% being indigenous West Papuans and 4.33% Indonesian transmigrants. The estimated 1,708,167 signatures by indigenous West Papuans represents 70.88% of the population. Is this not truly remarkable? Is it not a startling contrast to what happened in 1969 when, after the occupation of West Papua, Indonesia hand-picked only 1,026 people and forced them at gunpoint to declare support for Indonesian rule?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble and right reverend Lord is referring to the media reporting on the petition, and he has presented the facts as reported in the media. However, on receipt of this Question I checked with our mission at the United Nations in New York and we certainly have not ourselves received a copy of the petition. Furthermore, the UN Secretariat has not received such a petition. As for the situation in Papua, particularly West Papua, the noble and right reverend Lord speaks with great experience and I know of his interest. The United Kingdom continues to seek to ensure that all rights, including those of media reporting, are upheld and we have been encouraged by the recent steps that the President of Indonesia has taken in granting increasing clearance for journalists to report from that region.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister will know that at the beginning of this year his predecessor, the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, shared the concerns of the noble and right reverend Lord about human rights abuses. One thing that is clear is that those abuses are continuing and the Government are monitoring them. Will the Minister take this matter up at the UN and support the request for a special representative to investigate the continuing abuses of human rights?

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

With regard to the United Kingdom’s presence, our ambassador is visiting the region. The noble Lord referred to previous exchanges in your Lordships’ House; we of course remain concerned about the reports of abuses there and the human rights situation on the ground. We continue to make our representations clearly in international fora and, I assure the noble Lord, in direct representations at the highest bilateral level to the Indonesian Government themselves.

[Lord Dholakia (LD)]

My Lords, if I may follow up on the previous question, the matter of human rights abuses was and is being investigated by the Government of Indonesia. They are looking in particular at the accountability of the security forces which opened fire on a peaceful demonstration. Can the Minister get in touch with his counterpart in the Indonesian Government to see how far this investigation has advanced and what action could be taken against those who perpetrated such serious crimes? While we are on the matter of independence for West Papua, have the Government raised it with the UN General Assembly to identify what other routes West Papua can take to address democratically the matter of independence, in accordance with international law?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

On West Papua, it is important to say for the record that the United Kingdom retains its position on supporting the integrity of Indonesia. I will follow up with my opposite number in the Indonesian Government to get an update on the situation raised by the noble Lord. Let me be clear also that we are cognisant of the situation on the ground; that is why our ambassador has visited the region a number of times. I also draw to the House’s attention the fact that when the universal periodic review took place earlier this year, we raised human rights issues with specific reference to journalists who were not being allowed to report freely from the region.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister accept that I have an interest in this because I advised BP on its gas deposit in West Papua and visited there regularly for seven years? Can the Minister say whether journalists, both Indonesian and international, now have free access to West Papua? Do they have the ability to shine some light on the accusations of human rights abuses—and, if not, will we continue to press the Indonesian Government to give that right of access?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord speaks with great experience of the region and the country. I can assure him that, as I alluded to in an earlier response on this Question, President Jokowi has granted many more open rights. He has granted an equalisation of rights of access for journalists reporting on West Papua. Of course, the situation continues to be monitored on the ground. To answer the noble Lord’s question directly, there certainly is reporting. That is why we raised in the UPR that the free access to which the President has certainly committed is not translating itself on the ground. I assure the noble Lord, and your Lordships’ House more generally, that we will continue to raise not just the freedom of journalists within the region but all issues of human rights in West Papua.

[Lord Lea of Crondall (Lab)]

My Lords, with Indonesia being the fourth-largest country in the world by population, and by far the largest in ASEAN, the trend towards a degree of autocracy in ASEAN is worrying. Have the Government had discussions with our friends in Australia about their experience of being a close neighbour? Have they suggested that we in Europe can be of more assistance in getting the balance right in Indonesia—as the Indonesians are our friends—between human rights and all the economic development, religious and other questions that face a very complicated country such as Indonesia?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

There are many parts of the world, including our own, where the challenges and complications of any population are a priority for any Government. Let us not forget that Indonesia is, first and foremost, a democracy and that the current President was elected on a mandate of pluralism. We welcomed his election and, from his statements and the actions he has taken, are encouraged by what has been done centrally. There are of course worrying issues of human rights; we can talk in terms of the journalist fraternity or about minority rights, including minority religious rights, in Indonesia. Those remain of deep concern to Her Majesty’s Government and we continue to raise them bilaterally and in international fora, as appropriate.

Saudi Arabia and Iran

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 15th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord Luce]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they are taking, together with international partners, to encourage Saudi Arabia and Iran to work to reconcile their differences.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we urge the de-escalation of tensions in the Middle East. The Foreign Secretary condemned the attempted missile strike on Riyadh and expressed concern that Lebanon should not be used for a proxy conflict. He has spoken to the Saudi Arabian, Iranian and Lebanese Governments. The Minister for the Middle East, my right honourable friend Alistair Burt, expressed concern over reports that Iran provided the Houthis in Yemen with ballistic missiles. We are encouraging the Saudi-led coalition to ensure that humanitarian access remains open.

[Lord Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon (LD)]

My Lords—

[Lord Luce (CB)]

My Lords, bearing in mind that Iran and Saudi Arabia are important regional powers, does the Minister agree that their present relationship, involving proxy wars, could at any moment spark a wider conflict in the whole region, between Yemen and Lebanon, thus bringing hell on earth to an even greater number of long-suffering people in the Middle East? Bearing in mind Britain’s long-standing relationship and friendship with the Gulf countries and our active participation in the Iran nuclear agreement, will the Government take a much more vigorous lead with the international community, including countries such as Germany and France and perhaps Asian countries, to persuade these two important countries that it is in all our interests—including that of the United States—that Iran and Saudi Arabia should embark on a sustained dialogue to help build a more peaceful Middle East?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the sentiments of the noble Lord, who knows the region well. I think I speak for everyone in your Lordships’ House and beyond when I say that we wish to see a resolution not just of the conflict in Yemen, where innocent civilians in particular are suffering, but of any conflict between Iran and Saudi Arabia, which is worrying not just to the region but to the whole world. This conflict is tribally based and has not just arisen since the regime took over in Iran in 1979; it is a deep-rooted, embedded conflict which goes back to the division in Islam between the Sunni and Shia communities. I assure the House that Her Majesty’s Government are using all means available to us to make bilateral representations. We remain very supportive of the nuclear deal with Iran. We are using all good offices to ensure, first and foremost, that the suffering of those in Yemen can be brought to a halt. Ensuring free access for United Nations and other agencies will be a first step in providing humanitarian relief to civilians in Yemen.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords—

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Hain]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that we have to adopt a much more even-handed stance between Tehran and Riyadh in order to resolve the toxic instability afflicting the entire Gulf/Middle East region? We are seen to be allies of Saudi Arabia—I do not dispute the need for that—and to take the side of Saudi Arabia and the Sunni Muslim faith against Iran and the Shia Muslim faith. We need to be equal-handed between the two in order to end the proxy wars in Yemen, Lebanon, increasingly, Syria and Iraq.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure the noble Lord that we support the work that Saudi Arabia has done in the region. The stance we have taken on recent events regarding the Iranian nuclear deal shows the importance the UK attaches to bringing stability to the wider region. As for the two branches of Islam, let us not forget that there are 73 branches of Islam and Her Majesty’s Government are neutral in our interpretation of all of them.

[Lord Ashdown of Norton-sub-Hamdon]

My Lords, I apologise to the noble Lord and to the House for seeking to blunder in ahead of him; it was most inappropriate. Even allowing for the fact of jihadist terrorism, is not the greatest threat to peace coming from the Middle East now the imminent danger of a conflict between the Sunnis and the Shias, led by Saudi Arabia and Tehran, in which the West is backing one side and Russia the other? In the light of this, is it not foolish for the United Kingdom Government to be supporting, tacitly and with arms, Saudi Arabia while it is committing such clearly illegal acts in Yemen?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

First, as the noble Lord knows, the UK is not directly involved with the Saudi-led coalition. He talks about alliances, and of course the alliance between the United Kingdom and Saudi Arabia is an important one. But at the same time—I have made this point clearly already—we believe very strongly that peace and stability in the region requires both Iran and Saudi Arabia to resolve their differences and move forward in a positive vein. This is not about taking one side over the other. We make sure that any representations we make—including to the Saudis—on concerns we have, particularly about the conflict in Yemen, are made clear and at the highest level.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend accept that one other product of the Saudi-Iran rivalry, in addition to the horrors in Yemen, is the stand-off between Saudi Arabia and Qatar, which of course is undermining the whole solidarity of the Gulf Cooperation Council? Does he agree that the UK might be able to contribute to ending that dispute by looking more carefully at allegations that Qatar is assisting Iranian subversion and actual terrorist groups such as al-Nusra, establishing whether they true, and if so what Qatar’s motives are in pursuing this particularly destructive course?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

First, the dispute between Qatar and Saudi Arabia is of course a concern, particularly regarding the unity that we have seen across the Gulf Cooperation Council. On resolving that dispute, I agree with my noble friend, which is why we have been lending full support to the efforts by Kuwait in particular to find a resolution to all these issues—including the one that he has raised—to ensure that this dispute can be resolved as soon as possible. The concern remains with all these disputes, wherever they are within the region, that if we do not see a resolution, we will increasingly see instability across the region, which benefits no one—not just the region but the wider world.

Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill [HL]

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 15th November 2017 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That it be an instruction to the Committee of the Whole House to which the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill [HL] has been committed that they consider the bill in the following order:

Clauses 1 to 4, Schedule 1, Clauses 5 to 41, Schedule 2, Clauses 42 to 47, Schedule 3, Clauses 48 to 53, Title.

Motion agreed.

Zimbabwe

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 15th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, with the permission of the House, I will repeat the Answer given by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs to an Urgent Question in another place on the current situation in Zimbabwe:

“In the early hours of this morning, soldiers from the Zimbabwean army deployed in central Harare, taking control of state television, surrounding government ministries and sealing off Robert Mugabe’s official and private residences. At 1.26 am local time, a military officer appeared on state television and declared that the army was taking what he called ‘targeted action’ against the ‘criminals’ around Mugabe. Several government Ministers, all of them political allies of Grace Mugabe, are reported to have been arrested. At 2.30 am, gunfire was heard in the northern suburb of Harare where Mugabe has a private mansion. Areas of the central business district have been sealed off by armoured personnel carriers.

Our embassy in Harare has been monitoring the situation carefully throughout the night, supported by staff in the Foreign Office. About 20,000 Britons live in Zimbabwe and I can reassure the House that so far we have received no reports of any British nationals being injured. We have updated our travel advice to recommend that any Britons in Harare should remain in their homes or other accommodation until the situation becomes clearer. All our Zimbabwean and UK-based embassy staff and their families are accounted for. I will say frankly to the House that we cannot tell how developments in Zimbabwe will play out in the days ahead, and we do not know whether this marks the downfall of Mugabe or not. We call for calm and restraint.

The events of the past 24 hours are the latest escalation of months of brutal infighting within the ruling ZANU-PF party, including the sacking of a vice-president and the purging of his followers, and the apparent positioning of Grace Mugabe as a contender to replace her 93 year-old husband.

Honourable Members on all sides of the House have taken a deep interest in Zimbabwe over many years, and I pay particular tribute to the courage and persistence of my friend—and I can say that—the honourable Member for Vauxhall, who has tirelessly exposed the crimes of the Mugabe regime, visiting the country herself during some of its worst moments. This country, under Governments of all parties, has followed the same unwavering principles in its approach to Zimbabwe. First and foremost, we will never forget the strong ties of history and friendship with that beautiful country, accurately described as the jewel of Africa.

All that Britain has ever wanted for Zimbabweans is for them to be able to decide their own future in free and fair elections. Mugabe’s consuming ambition was always to deny them that choice. The House will remember the brutal litany of his 37 years in office: the elections that he rigged and stole; the murder and torture of his opponents; and the illegal seizure of land, leading to the worst hyperinflation in recorded history—measured in billions of percentage points—and forcing the abolition of the Zimbabwean dollar. All the while, his followers were looting and plundering that richly endowed country, so that Zimbabweans today are, per capita, poorer than they were in 1980, leaving many dependent on the healthcare, education and food aid provided by DfID.

Britain has always wanted the Zimbabwean people to be masters of their fate and for any political change to be peaceful, lawful and constitutional. Authoritarian rule, whether in Zimbabwe or anywhere else, should have no place in Africa. There is only one rightful way for Zimbabwe to achieve a legitimate Government, and that is through free and fair elections held in accordance with the country’s constitution. Elections are due to be held in the first half of next year, and we will do all that we can with our international partners to ensure that they provide a genuine opportunity for all Zimbabweans to decide their future. That is what we shall urge on all parties, and I will speak to the Deputy President of South Africa later today.

Every honourable Member will follow the scenes in Harare with good will and sympathy for Zimbabwe’s long-suffering people, and I undertake to keep the House updated as events unfold”.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating as a Statement the Answer to the Urgent Question, and I of course wholeheartedly support the actions of the Government: protection of all civilians, including the 20,000 British citizens, is obviously the first priority. I see that recent press reports say that a delegation from South Africa was refused entry into Zimbabwe. Can the Minister tell us a little more about the contacts with not only South Africa but the African Union on the ongoing situation and the need to protect civilians? Can he further tell us that there will be discussions to ensure that the whole of the African Union will ensure that the elections scheduled for next year will be free and fair, and open to all people in Zimbabwe to participate in?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

First and foremost, I thank the noble Lord for his support for the Government, which reflects the continuing position of Her Majesty’s Opposition on this important issue. On delegates from South Africa being refused entry, I am aware of various media reports. I cannot give him a factual answer, but I will certainly follow that up. As I said in repeating the Answer, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary will be speaking to the Deputy President of South Africa. We will get an update and I will update the noble Lord and the whole House accordingly.

The noble Lord makes a valid point about the African Union. In that regard, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary is due to travel to the next meeting of the African Union—in Ivory Coast, I believe —which takes place the week after next. Events may move on—they are very fluid on the ground—but I am sure that, in the conversation and discussion that takes place in the interim and at that meeting, Zimbabwe will be a priority issue.

[Lord Chidgey (LD)]

My Lords, I, too, confirm our support for the Government’s efforts in this regard. This morning, the Movement for Democratic Change Senator David Coltart said that the military has complete control over the media, and that

“this has all the marks of a coup”.

The MDC is committed to respecting the constitution and is against its breach. Do the Minister and his colleagues support its call for the military to restore order as soon as possible and, if the need arises, for the impeachment of Robert Mugabe?

What assessment has been made of the potential impact of the military takeover on our ongoing commitments in Zimbabwe, which are varied and deep? Has the Minister spoken to his counterpart in DfID about this yet?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

First, as I have already said, the situation is unfolding and fluid, so we are unclear how things are on the ground. I welcome the noble Lord’s support, and that of his party, on this important issue.

In terms of what happens hereafter, I am also aware of contacts made between the South African Government and Robert Mugabe, and reports on that are coming through. Our primary objective is to ensure that all British citizens are safe and know how and where to make contact. Communications remain open with our embassy on the ground and we are in contact with the ambassador. What happens in the next few hours, tomorrow and in the following days is all very much to be determined. However, we will of course work with not just DfID partners but all departments across Her Majesty’s Government and, as I have indicated, allies and supporters in neighbouring countries, particularly South Africa, to ensure stability in the country. I am sure that I speak for everyone in the House when I say that we are calling not just for restraint but for law and order to retain a semblance. We have seen that there is peace at the moment, and hope that that prevails. No matter what their sentiment, we call on all citizens of Zimbabwe to continue in that respect.

[The Lord Bishop of Southwark]

My Lords, the Minister is only too aware both of the United Kingdom’s historic links with Zimbabwe and of the difficult relationship with ZANU-PF; that is reflected in the Statement, which has won support around the House. Speaking as chair of the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury’s Zimbabwe round table, I pass on the concern of Anglican bishops in Zimbabwe that any transition should not be allowed to lead to a reoccurrence of conflict in a country that has suffered much. I ask that the UK offers help sensitively and purposefully where it is possible to do so, supporting key stakeholders who are committed to a peaceful transition and who are prepared for it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I thank the right reverend Prelate. Let me assure him that, of course, we welcome input and insight into the situation on the ground. He raises the issue of the important role of Church leaders in Zimbabwe, which will be an important element in ensuring the peace and security that we all wish to be sustained in Zimbabwe. The role of the Church in that regard will be crucial.

[Lord St John of Bletso (CB)]

My Lords, I welcome the Statement and the arrests of the G40 hierarchy, which I hope will herald a new dawn and a new chapter for Zimbabwe in building confidence in the country. Is the Minister aware that the most likely immediate scenario is that Emmerson Mnangagwa will become the interim President for the next 90 days and, at the electoral college scheduled for next month, a Government of national unity will be formed with Morgan Tsvangirai as the Prime Minister? While we all call for free and fair elections as soon as possible, is the Minister aware that the most likely situation is that elections will be delayed for a couple of years until economic security and stability is restored in the country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord will appreciate that I will not speculate on who may or may not lead Zimbabwe. It is a fact that Emmerson Mnangagwa, to whom he referred, was removed as Vice-President by Robert Mugabe and the current Administration. As to what happens thereafter, we expect, hope and desire first and foremost that peace and stability prevails. Of course, there is a constitution to be respected. It would be premature for me to speculate on any delays in elections scheduled for next year, or indeed on whoever in the coming days will be at the helm of government in Zimbabwe.

[Lord Hayward (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his answer to the previous question. It would be premature to welcome any change of Government, because we do not know what form that Government will take. I speak as a former resident of the country. I ask him to ensure that, when consideration is given to what may happen in the coming months and years, we recognise that there are several hundred thousand Zimbabweans resident in South Africa and in other countries around Zimbabwe. Therefore, any instability that occurs in Zimbabwe may have serious implications for the other countries in that part of the continent.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I thank my noble friend, who speaks very aptly. We have always been concerned about the situation in Zimbabwe and its impact on the surrounding regions. I alluded to this in the Statement but, irrespective of which party has led the Government and notwithstanding the situation on the ground in Zimbabwe, we have stood firm and side by side with the people of Zimbabwe. We have seen from recent economic conditions on the ground and in the situation under Robert Mugabe’s leadership that the people have suffered dreadfully. However, at the same time, the British Government, irrespective of political colour, have stood resolute in supporting Zimbabwe’s citizens. We continue to provide £80 million per annum in bilateral support, in crucial areas such as education and health, and it is important that that support has continued irrespective of who has led Zimbabwe.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, in welcoming the Minister’s Statement, can I gently correct him? South Africa is the jewel of Africa—not Zimbabwe. More seriously, could he investigate why the fearlessly investigative online newspaper the Daily Maverick had its chief reporter in Zimbabwe, Richard Poplak, detained and then put on a plane out of Harare? Is there now an even greater attack on press freedom in Zimbabwe? Could he investigate that, because it is a worrying development? Given the instability, we need journalists in there to tell us the truth.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

On the second point, I shall write to the noble Lord as appropriate. On his first point, there are many jewels in Africa, and that is probably where I shall let the matter rest.

[Lord Spicer (Con)]

The danger of these sorts of discussions is that the impression is given that we have responsibility for what happens in Zimbabwe. Obviously, we have some responsibility for the 20,000 or so British citizens who are there—but do we have the capability to rescue them if necessary?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Our first priority is our own citizens, and I have already alluded to the fact that we have made sure that we are in communication with them and retain that. We have given them advice to stay in their homes, because that is important; we do not know what the prevailing situation will be. In our general responsibility not just to Zimbabwe but across the world, it is right that Britain as a country, with regard to both our history and our current positioning, remains engaged and involved, whether through our support through DfID or other political and humanitarian support. That shows that we are a responsible Government on the international stage; I strongly believe that, and long may it continue.

Daesh: Raqqa

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 14th November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask a Question of which I have given private notice.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we were not involved in the discussions and did not condone the decision. This was a local agreement by local leaders, including the Raqqa Civil Council and tribal elders. Despite territorial losses, Daesh remains a threat and coalition activity against it continues. We remain determined to fight and defeat Daesh. We are prepared for the risk from returnees as Daesh loses territory and we are using a range of tools to disrupt and diminish that threat.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his Answer. These clearly are hardened fighters and I hope we have put in place mechanisms to spot them when they come in. Militarily, we have now effectively destroyed the caliphate in physical terms, and we should be very pleased about that huge success. Now, we must move towards trying to get a proper ceasefire in Syria. The only way to do that is to involve the SDF, the Kurds and other coalition members, but also Assad. Assad might be a loathsome man but he is a fact of life on the ground. If he and his structure suddenly went, 2 million to 3 million Alawites and Christians could possibly be wiped out but would certainly be refugees. We really must deal with this dreadful man because otherwise we will not have a ceasefire, the fighting will continue and people will continue to be killed. Will we now have more connection with Assad, the SDF and the others to ensure that there is a ceasefire, so that we can then move forward to some sort of future settlement?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

First, I agree with the noble Lord about the despicable nature of the crimes committed by Daesh fighters. We have all rightly condemned those, and the Government have taken a very strong stance to ensure that they are held to account. The noble Lord will be aware that in September, during the UNGA, we led on a Security Council resolution specifically to hold Daesh fighters to account.

On the situation regarding the different parties, the noble Lord is right that the coalition continues to support the SDF and the Kurds. However, on the specific issue of Bashar Assad, we have made our position clear: we do not believe that he should be leading Syria at the end of any discussions that take place. That is ultimately a call for the Syrian people themselves but we have been consistent in our call to ensure that there is a true representation of civilian communities in Syria, and clear that Bashar Assad does not provide any sense of a final settlement being reached in Syria. At the same time, I take on board totally the fact that we must ensure the security and safety of all communities within Syria, particularly the minorities who have suffered dreadfully during this far too long conflict.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the fact is that these fighters have gone somewhere. They have not disappeared, and there is a potential threat to neighbouring countries. What assessment have the Government made of the threat to neighbouring countries, particularly those which are fighting Daesh? Also, what assessment has the Minister made of how that release of fighters affects our ability to hold these criminals to account? It is vital that we do that.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the noble Lord, most certainly on his final point—the Government, as he knows, take very seriously the need to hold them to account. Just to put this in context, the number quoted also includes the families. The deal was known to the SDF, in particular, and was a local tribal deal. The purpose behind the evacuation was to minimise the loss of civilian lives in the fall of Raqqa, particularly those of women and young children. To track Daesh fighters we are continuing to use all agencies on the ground and to work with the coalition of 73 countries, including several neighbouring countries, to ensure that those who are seeking to leave the conflict zone in Syria and in Iraq are held accountable locally. If foreign fighters seek to return to the UK, there is due process in place to ensure that they are held to account for their crimes abroad.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

The Minister will have heard the noble Earl, Lord Courtown, say 10 minutes ago that we continue to play a pivotal role in operations against Daesh. The presence of coalition aircraft over the convoy, as reported on BBC News, suggests that at least some leading members of the coalition knew what was going on and, perhaps, must have been involved in the conflict. Is he saying that we were not playing a pivotal role in this?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend made the point that we continue to be at the heart and centre of the fight against Daesh in both Syria and Iraq. I think that some of the media reports were speculative. However, to put the noble Lord’s question into context, the deal was not not known to people as there were two press releases at the time highlighting that the evacuation was taking place. It was not a question of not knowing. We continue to monitor all aspects of any Daesh fighters fleeing from the territory. We continue to monitor their movements very closely.

[Lord Hamilton of Epsom (Con)]

Can my noble friend confirm that many foreign Daesh fighters have burned their passports, so in the case of British fighters it will be quite difficult, but not impossible, for them to find their way back to the United Kingdom?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend raises a point and I am sure there are cases where that has happened. I suggest to him that anyone making themselves known to the authorities on the ground will be held to account. There are measures in place to ensure that those who somehow, through various efforts, return to the UK are held to account. It is ultimately for the CPS to take forward any prosecutions which may occur.

[Lord Richard (Lab)]

The Minister’s account of what seems to have happened gets curiouser and curiouser. As I understand what he is now saying, we knew this was going on. Presumably the Americans also knew that it was going on. The other members of the coalition knew that it was going on. Did we try to stop it? Did we make representations to whoever was doing the deal that it was not in the interests of the coalition or of the war against Daesh? In short, what did we do except just look at it?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

For the benefit of the noble Lord and the whole House I shall read from the press release put out on 14 October by Jonathan Braga, the coalition’s director of operations. At the end, it states:

“We do not condone any arrangement that allows Daesh terrorists to escape Raqqa without facing justice only to resurface somewhere else. We remain concerned about the thousands of civilians in Raqqa who remain subject to Daesh cruelty”.


It continues:

“Daesh terrorists have been hiding behind women and children”—


I alluded to that—

“for three years, and we are against any arrangement that lets them continue to do so”.

As I said, there were press releases at the time. This was a decision made locally by tribal elders and the Raqqa civilian council. The primary objective behind the decision was to protect women and children. The Daesh fighters numbered not thousands but hundreds, and they continue to be monitored. As to the coalition’s role in any decision-taking, we do not condone any such arrangement, and we continue to ensure that any Daesh fighters, wherever they may be in the territory, are held to account.

[Lord Hylton (CB)]

The noble Lord, Lord West, quite rightly wanted a complete ceasefire in Syria. How would that be achieved by wiping out every last Daesh fighter? Secondly, will the Government ensure that wives and other camp-followers are not held responsible for the crimes of the fighters?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

With Daesh, we are dealing with a despicable organisation. The way that it has influenced many, in terms of recruitment, is well known to all noble Lords. The noble Lord’s point is pertinent: we need to ensure that all efforts are made to save any lives that can be saved, particularly those of women and young children. Of course I totally agree with the noble Lord, Lord West, that ultimately what we are seeking from our operations on the ground and from the coalition engagement—with all 70-odd nations involved with that coalition—is to reach a final settlement that protects the peace and security of all communities that have been impacted by Daesh activity not just in Syria but, as we are seeing now, encouragingly, in Iraq as well.

[Baroness Hodgson of Abinger (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend tell me whether there have been discussions with other members of the coalition about trying to address the situation so that these fighters can be detained and face the justice that he mentioned in the press release?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Absolutely. As I mentioned earlier, we championed an anti-Daesh resolution at the Security Council. We continue to work not just with our P5 coalition partners but across the piece to ensure that, as my noble friend rightly says, these Daesh fighters, whether they are caught in Syria, crossing borders or making their way back home if they were foreign fighters—there were some who, regrettably and tragically, left the UK—are held to account for their actions and brought to justice.

Commonwealth Summit 2018

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 2nd November 2017 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I join other noble Lords in thanking the noble Lord, Lord Chidgey, for his tenacity—as it has been called by some—and his commitment to this important agenda. I am greatly privileged to answer a debate of this nature. From the contributions we have seen across the Chamber, it is clear that we all align ourselves with the unity behind not just the virtues and values of the Commonwealth but its purpose.

As several noble Lords have alluded to, next year the UK will have the deep honour and privilege of welcoming the Commonwealth family; I use the word deliberately. I assure all noble Lords—particularly the noble Lords, Lord McNally, Lord Parekh and Lord Taylor—that when we talk about family, we can all personally account for the strength of the family and at times perhaps need look no further than your Lordships’ Chamber to see the great wealth of the Commonwealth. The noble Lord, Lord Taylor, talked about his family experiences and the diaspora of communities here in the UK. Again, that is a huge opportunity to demonstrate the strength of everything that defines the family that is the Commonwealth when we look at our own country, and indeed the city of London, in terms of its diversity and depth and the richness of its diaspora. I often joke with my children about the great heritage of the Commonwealth, as they are products of the Commonwealth who can claim heritage from Australia, the UK, India and Pakistan. I will come on to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Hussain, but there are family ties on the issue he raised. That issue is a pertinent and important one: he mentioned Kashmir and the bilateral relations between India and Pakistan. Fora such as the Commonwealth—he mentioned the United Nations as well—provide a huge opportunity for the United Kingdom to play its part in making sure those two countries, which share so much in terms of culture, community, faith and language, can join together and resolve something that ensures and upholds the rights of all citizens, irrespective of what region or part of the Commonwealth they belong to.

As we have heard, next year, attendees will include Heads of Government, foreign Ministers, civil society leaders, businesspeople and, perhaps most importantly, young people from every corner of the Commonwealth. I have been greatly inspired by meeting all the Commonwealth networks for young people. Let us not forget that 60% of the Commonwealth is under 30. Regrettably, I do not think there is anyone in your Lordships’ House at this time who can claim to be part of that cohort. That provides a huge opportunity and we must engage directly with the youth. Therefore, we have shared with our partners that official delegates from across the 52 nations should also include at least one individual from that particular age group to ensure, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, said, we set the agenda not just for April or for the two years that the United Kingdom is in the chair, but to attract the youth so we can truly address what the noble Lord, Lord Judd, said about the global nature of the world we live in. It is right that we engage with the youth directly on this important issue.

The members of the Commonwealth cover more than a quarter of the world’s land mass. As we heard from the noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, and others, trade adds up to incredible amounts. It will grow to $1 trillion by 2020. The Commonwealth is home to more than 2 billion people. These figures show its immense global potential for influence and demonstrate why it is important to the UK. It is about not just our strong cultural and personal ties, which some noble Lords alluded to, but the common future, a common partnership and common hopes for all Commonwealth members and more. I noted the words of the noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, in this respect. If we have 52 nations today it will certainly be more by the time of the summit. We need to look to the future to ensure that we really make the Commonwealth representative of the world as it is today.

We have seen the tremendous impact the Commonwealth has when it acts as one. We are all aware of the important work it did historically, looking back to recent history in South Africa, with its transition from the great injustices of apartheid to a free and democratic society. We see how Heads of Government came together in Malta in 2015 to press for ambitious climate change targets. I assure the noble Lord, Lord Judd, that that remains a priority at this Heads of Government Meeting. There is the important pillar of sustainability. Let us not forget the UK’s work, with other nations, following the impact of the hurricanes—I was in the Pacific Islands when the hurricanes hit—and the importance of working together. In that regard, I pay tribute to the Commonwealth Secretariat, in particular to its Secretary-General, the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Scotland, for the co-ordination and co-operation we saw with Governments across the Pacific and the Caribbean. I also pay tribute to her recent work brokering a political agreement in Zambia. This demonstrates the strength of the Commonwealth at its best.

We want next April’s summit to drive further progress towards realising the Commonwealth’s true potential. We are pleased that all member states and Heads of Government have agreed that the summit will focus on four common challenges. At a reception for Commonwealth leaders held recently during the UN General Assembly in New York, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister, Mrs May, outlined these challenges and opportunities. They are: how to make the compelling case for free trade and promote higher living standards around the world; how to address new security challenges, including cyberterrorism and online extremism; how to mitigate the effects of climate change, in particular—as the noble Lord, Lord Judd, drew attention to—on small and vulnerable states; and, as we heard from many noble Lords, the importance of human rights and how to protect the values we all share to create a fairer, freer and more tolerant Commonwealth.

We hope the theme of the summit, “Towards a Common Future”, encapsulates our ambitions. We want the summit to revitalise the Commonwealth and to build that brighter future. Preparations are under way. We are already working closely with member states, the Commonwealth Secretariat and, importantly—to reassure the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and my noble friend Lady Berridge—with civil society groups to put together a programme for the summit that will strengthen the prosperity and security of all Commonwealth countries.

I have had the great pleasure and privilege of representing the UK and meeting with our Commonwealth partners across the world. In recent months I have travelled to India, Bangladesh and Ghana. As I alluded to, I visited the Pacific Islands, including Fiji, and Australia, which is hosting the next Commonwealth Games in Brisbane. We are delighted that we shall host the ones after that in Birmingham. It is an opportunity to bring our country together. My interactions with government leaders and young people in all of these countries have strengthened my belief that the Commonwealth has a powerful role to play in the modern world.

To turn to some of the fora talked about, and to directly answer the Question before us, there will be a people’s forum. This will be the biggest meeting of Heads of Government that the UK has ever hosted. However, we believe the Commonwealth, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, so articulately put it, is not simply a collection of member states and a secretariat. It is so much more. A fundamental part of the Commonwealth is its people-to-people links, as we know from the extraordinary contribution the Commonwealth diaspora makes to British society. We see the Commonwealth’s strength and uniqueness as being in many organisations. That is why it is at the centre of this particular event.

The people’s forum is the single largest gathering of civil society representatives from across the Commonwealth. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and others that I wish to work with Members in this House and the other place to ensure that we get those representative voices at the people’s forum as we develop the programme. I would be pleased to meet noble Lords in that respect.

Alongside the people’s forum, as we have heard, there will also be a business forum. I join the noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, in paying tribute to my noble friend Lord Marland for organising it. There will be a women’s forum. I assure noble Lords, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, that women’s issues will be front and centre. It is not just about the education of young girls but the empowerment of women, and we will be looking to work together in that respect.

Our co-operation with the CPA is already part and parcel of our thinking. I assure noble Lords that I have already met not just CPA UK but the international CPA, and I am delighted that we will be playing a key part in the February event. I have noted the suggestion made by the noble Lord, Lord McNally—to whom I always listen very carefully, not least because I was his Whip once upon a time—about how we might perhaps use this Chamber for events.

Various issues were raised around the freedom of religion and belief. My noble friend Lady Berridge will know that this is very much part and parcel of our thinking. The fairness pillar within the Commonwealth summit allows us to develop this further. My noble friend also talked about how to ensure a continuation with Malaysia at the parliamentary forum and CHOGM. Malaysia has indeed put itself forward and we will be looking during our two years in the chair to ensure that continuation of key themes in the summit.

The noble Lord, Lord Judd, talked about refugees and asked where we were on that. It is a timely opportunity to demonstrate our commitment to the values we share across the Commonwealth. I will write to the noble Lord in response to his letter—my letter is on its way, I assure him.

We heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Hayman, about health and education. We had a very constructive meeting on the issue of global malaria. As we have heard, malaria is a key issue for many Commonwealth citizens. We are working with member states and the Commonwealth Secretariat to examine the options for the summit agenda. I will keep the House updated as this takes shape. I assure the noble Baroness that the UK has already pledged £1.1 billion to the Global Fund to Fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria over the next three years.

I have already mentioned issues around climate change. The important issue of LGBTI rights was mentioned by the noble Lords, Lord Judd, Lord Cashman and Lord Collins. We are committed. We have heard the words of the Prime Minister. I assure noble Lords that the Foreign Secretary and I are equally committed to combating discrimination in all its guises, including violence against LGBTI people, throughout the Commonwealth. We used every opportunity at the previous CHOGM in Malta to highlight our belief that the Commonwealth must stand up for human rights, including the rights of the LGBTI community. The detailed forum programmes are still being developed but we are confident that LGBTI issues will be a substantive area of discussion.

There were a couple of other questions. The noble Lord, Lord Mendelsohn, asked about pensions. He will be aware that this issue has followed various Governments around for the past 70 years. The UK state pension is payable worldwide but is uprated abroad only when there is a reciprocal legal requirement to do so. Currently there are no plans to review this.

It was a great honour to be appointed Minister for the Commonwealth, particularly at such an important time for the organisation and the UK’s relationship with it. This is not about the UK’s role alone but about an equal partnership of 52 nations and—who knows?—more in the future. We want this CHOGM summit to be a milestone event in Commonwealth history—a chance to truly demonstrate how the Commonwealth can help mitigate the major challenges: the issues of security, climate change, fairness and equality for all its citizens, and the important elements of human rights and fairness. We will continue to work in close partnership with the Commonwealth Secretariat, member states and our partners across civil society to ensure that it is a great success. When representing the UK abroad, as I have the honour to do, I often say that the great strength of our nation is its diversity. The same is true of the 52 members of the Commonwealth.

House adjourned at 7.49 pm.

Terrorism: Sexual Violence

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 1st November 2017 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Cox]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their response to the recommendation of the Henry Jackson Society’s report Trafficking Terror that an International Legal Task Force should be established to gather evidence on sexual violence as a tactic of terrorism.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we condemn the use of sexual violence by terrorist organisations and are committed to holding perpetrators to account. UK law enforcement agencies are already assessing the threat posed by terrorism and human trafficking globally with our multilateral and bilateral partners. Our team of experts is also supporting efforts to gather evidence of sexual violence in conflict. The report makes a number of valid points and we will give them due consideration.

[Baroness Cox (CB)]

I thank the Minister for his sympathetic reply. Is he aware of the scale of money flowing from modern slavery to terrorist organisations such as Islamic State and Boko Haram? According to the report, from just 16 victims taken hostage, Islamic State gained between £98,000 and £198,000 from ransom payments. Slavery is also used to provide a plethora of non-monetary incentives to attract and reward terrorist fighters. Will Her Majesty’s Government consider the broader implications of laws, including the Modern Slavery Act 2015 and the Terrorism Act 2016, to reflect adequately the spectrum of crimes committed by individuals using sexual slavery and violence as a tactic of terrorism?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure the noble Baroness that we not only condemn it but act on that. She will be aware of our action at the highest level at the UN Security Council with the passing of Resolution 2331, which addresses the nexus between human trafficking, sexual violence and terrorism. More recently, as I have said to the House, in September this year at the UN Security Council we passed a resolution specifically to set up an investigative team to gather greater evidence on sexual violence and crimes committed by Daesh in Iraq. That demonstrates the action we are taking at an international level to ensure that we tackle this head on.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, this is one of those critical issues that requires interdepartmental examination and is not just about UN activity. The relationship between human trafficking, sexual violence and terrorist groups is complex. Will the Minister assure us that the departments in Whitehall are working together to examine this so that consideration is given to both international law and domestic law?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I can give the noble Lord that assurance. Only two weeks ago, the Home Secretary, Amber Rudd, chaired a meeting of Ministers, including those from the Foreign Office and DCLG. They looked at the action we are taking domestically on the primary issue of modern slavery and the referral mechanism, which includes support for victims of human trafficking. The meeting also brought together elements of international action and our bilateral representation and leadership on this issue, and how modern slavery and human trafficking is one of many instruments used by terrorist organisations.

[Baroness Afshar (CB)]

My Lords, are the Government aware that by misunderstanding or misrepresenting Islam, this kind of slavery is now extended to children as young as nine years old? The issue is becoming much more serious and needs to be comprehensively dealt with in the localities. Intervention is essential at the point where it starts.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure the noble Baroness that I understand that issue very well. Around the world, organisations such as Daesh, Boko Haram and al-Shabaab erroneously say that their actions are inspired by Islam, by religion. What religion? What humanity? We condemn them totally and unequivocally. On a practical point, I was in New York earlier this week and met the Deputy Secretary-General, Amina Mohammed. We discussed some of the steps that have been taken in Nigeria—including the very point the noble Baroness alerts us to—about working with communities and clerics on the ground to ensure that the poisonous narrative the terrorists present can be unequivocally condemned by the religious leaders who represent that faith.

[Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)]

My Lords, the excellent report of the Select Committee on Sexual Violence in Conflict recommended, among other things, a review of local legislation. Will the Minister update the House on the Government’s progress in implementing this? Does he agree that it is in our interests to lead the international task force recommended in the Henry Jackson Society’s report to show the international leadership that we are capable of and to help cut off funding for terrorism on the streets of Britain?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Baroness raises a vital point and I agree with her totally. We also need to demonstrate local action. However, as she will be aware, such local actions are reflective of the international human trafficking that occurs. On the specific issue of preventing sexual violence, we have also led the way. She may be aware that over the past 12 months we have had 20 deployments through 10 countries. That demonstrates our commitment to building international co-operation on tackling not only sexual violence but what leads to human trafficking in that respect.

[Lord Hylton (CB)]

Does the Minister accept that there are three stages to this business? First, you have to gather the evidence; then you have to have a prosecutor; and, finally, you have to have a court or tribunal to try cases. Will the Government try to co-ordinate all three stages?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is correct. That is why I again allude to the Security Council effort made this year in September, where the resolution passed does exactly what the noble Lord suggests. It is about gathering evidence, building the capacity of the team gathering that evidence, and then bringing terrorist groups to justice. This, of course, is focused specifically on Daesh. We want to see how we can replicate the effort to bring international co-ordination on this particular activity so that we can hold the perpetrators to account.

Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Bill [HL]

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

2nd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 1st November 2017 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That the Bill be now read a second time.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for attending the debate and for the useful comments already shared with me and my noble friend Lady Goldie during the meetings we have held since the Bill was introduced. This is an important piece of legislation and we need to get it right.

The United Kingdom has long played a leading role on the global stage in tackling threats to international peace and security. One method of influence increasingly used by the international community is the imposition of sanctions. Sanctions encompass a range of measures, such as travel bans, asset freezes, trade restrictions and broader economic measures. In recent years they have been employed in relation to Russia’s invasion of Ukraine and the conflict in Syria, and to put pressure on Iran to come to the negotiating table. Anti-money laundering regulations are also increasingly important in this globalised world and vital if the international community is to continue to protect itself from financial crime. The effectiveness of these measures depends on the consistent enforcement of technical and procedural controls mandated by the Financial Action Task Force, an international organisation of which the United Kingdom is a founder member.

I shall briefly set the scene as to where we are. The UK currently implements 35 sanctions regimes. These include country-specific regimes, such as those on North Korea, Syria and Iran, and regimes targeting terrorist organisations such as al-Qaeda and Daesh. Within these regimes there are currently around 2,000 individuals, groups and businesses subject to restrictive measures.

In broad terms, the UK implements four main types of sanction regime. The first is based entirely on UN Security Council resolutions. As a member of the UN, the UK is obliged to implement them. Indeed, our position as a permanent member of the Security Council means that we have agreed to those regimes in that forum before they become international law under the UN charter.

The second type of regime is where the EU has acted alone or with allies such as the US, generally where it has not been possible to reach agreement at the United Nations. I shall give an example of the former: after the annexation of Crimea, the UN was unable to impose sanctions on Russia because of Russia’s veto in the Security Council, so the EU decided to act in concert with the United States and other like-minded countries. The third type is hybrid regimes. These are where the EU has adopted UN sanctions but has decided to top up the provisions within those regimes with additional measures. An example of this occurred recently on North Korea. Finally, the UK has some domestic powers to impose sanctions—for example, under the Terrorist Asset-Freezing etc. Act 2010.

This is a technical Bill which ensures that the UK can continue to meet its international obligations and to implement UK sanctions and anti-money laundering measures after we leave the European Union. New domestic legislation is necessary because most of the UK’s powers to implement sanctions and anti-money laundering measures currently come from the European Communities Act 1972. When the EU withdrawal Act, as the Bill going through the other place will become, repeals the European Communities Act, it will freeze any sanctions regimes which are in force on the day on which the withdrawal Act commences, but we do not possess sufficient powers under current domestic legislation fully to impose, amend and lift existing or new EU UK autonomous sanctions regimes. Similarly, we do not currently possess sufficient domestic legal powers to update anti-money laundering and counterterrorist financing legislation after the UK ceases to be a member of the EU. This means that, without this Bill, the UK would quickly be in breach of international law.

Before I go into detail about the content of the Bill, I reassure noble Lords that there has been significant government engagement with individuals and businesses on this domestic framework. In April, the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, Her Majesty’s Treasury and the Department for International Trade published a White Paper and launched a public consultation on the UK’s future legal framework for imposing and implementing sanctions. My officials held round tables with a number of sectors including financial services, NGOs and the legal profession, as well as international partners. My right honourable friend Sir Alan Duncan, the Minister for Europe and the Americas, took part in a debate on sanctions in the other place on 19 July. On 2 August, the Government published their response to the consultation. This process had been transparent over the previous six months, and I intend to continue the same level of transparency with noble Lords as the Bill passes through this House.

Turning to the content of the Bill, I emphasise that it is about powers and not policy—it is a technical Bill which creates the legal framework for the UK to be able to continue to impose sanctions where appropriate. Part 1 allows the Government to impose a number of sanctions: financial, trade, transport and immigration. This will allow the UK to maintain the full range of sanctions available at the moment. Part 2 deals with anti-money laundering and counterterrorist financing regimes, and Part 3 deals with general matters such as supplementary provisions and definitions. For each new UK sanctions regime, the Government intend to bring forward a statutory instrument which contains details for that regime.

I know how important it is that we have robust parliamentary scrutiny of these new powers. I also know that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, in particular shares this view. This Bill allows for such scrutiny. Regulations which deal with UN regimes will be made under the negative procedure. Once agreed at the UN Security Council, the UK has an obligation to implement these sanctions under the UN charter. Not doing so would leave the UK in breach of international law. Regimes which both deal with UN obligations and include additional sanctions or hybrid regimes will also be made under the negative procedure. Regulations which do not deal with the UN regimes will be made under the made affirmative procedure. This will allow regimes to come into force immediately, thereby negating the risk that assets are removed before restrictions take effect, while allowing Parliament to debate the regulations.

The vast majority of anti-money laundering regulations will be made using draft affirmative procedures. The one exception to this will be where the UK makes updates to the current EU regulation. This requires enhanced due diligence measures to be applied to persons in countries with strategic deficiencies in their anti-money laundering regimes. Such updates need to be made quickly, and will be made by using the affirmative procedure. At present, anti-money laundering regulations are transposed into UK law through the negative procedure, so the Bill will increase parliamentary scrutiny.

Risks arising from money laundering and financial crime evolve quickly, as reflected by the Government’s active agenda to address these threats. The Bill therefore provides for the Government to take a sufficiently broad power to ensure that the UK’s anti-money laundering regime remains fit for purpose and is able to respond swiftly to emerging risks. The content of the current money laundering regulations is sufficiently technical that it is better suited for secondary legislation, rather than primary. This is in keeping with the approach typically taken in the UK and elsewhere to establish detailed obligations on the regulated sector.

In some of the meetings that we have held, engagement with noble Lords suggested that the current requirements of the fourth EU money laundering directive should be included in the Bill, and therefore capable of being amended only through primary legislation. I have listened to the discussions we had very carefully but it remains our view that this would dramatically increase the size of the Bill, adding more than 100 new clauses, and would not reflect the rapidly evolving nature of anti-money laundering policy. As many noble Lords will know, the EU is already in the process of amending the fourth money laundering directive, in spite of it being transposed only earlier this year. This demonstrates again the need to act swiftly. Similarly, when a Government of the future need to anticipate or react to new threats, they may wish to create new types of sanctions. It would be remiss of us not to ensure that the Bill was future-proofed so that it remained useful. Regulations which create new sanctions will be exercised through the draft affirmative procedure, thereby allowing Parliament to have a full say.

An important element of the Bill is the threshold for designations. The Bill proposes that, to impose restrictive measures on an individual, a Minister must have “reasonable grounds to suspect” that they are involved in an activity we want to change or prevent. This is the same standard that we currently use when considering designations at the United Nations and the EU. It is broadly equivalent to the “sufficiently solid factual basis” applied by EU courts. The application of this threshold was considered and endorsed by the Supreme Court in the case against Youssef in 2016; it was also considered acceptable by the EU General Court in the case against Mohammed Al-Ghabra, again in 2016, where the court emphasised the need for the threshold to be supported by sufficient evidence.

The importance of a clear threshold of this kind was also underlined by colleagues involved in the European Union Committee’s 11th report of the 2016-17 Session, The Legality of EU Sanctions, an inquiry conducted by its Justice Sub-Committee. Having the same threshold that we currently use when considering designations at the UN and EU will allow us to align with our international partners where our political objectives converge. Sanctions are always best applied by a broad coalition of countries. Working with partners increases the impact of the agreed measures and reduces the compliance burdens on business. I will return to this later.

As set out in our consultation response, the Bill also aligns the threshold for domestic counter-terrorism sanctions to this test of “reasonable grounds to suspect”. This is a change to the current approach under the Terrorist Asset-Freezing etc. Act 2010, where Treasury Ministers must have “reasonable grounds to believe” that an individual is involved in prohibited activity and that the measure is necessary for the protection of the public. No new designations under the TAFA threshold have been made for two years and a reduced threshold will have a number of benefits. It will bring counterterrorism sanctions in line with other UK financial sanctions regimes, improving the coherence and clarity of our sanctions framework as a whole. It will allow the Government to impose sanctions based on similar levels of evidence to those required by our international partners, ensuring that we can maintain productive international co-operation on this issue. It will also give the Government more flexibility in using asset-freezing tools domestically, and thereby help to mitigate the threat from terrorism.

Noble Lords will be aware of how this threat has changed even in the short time since TAFA was passed. I need not dwell on this matter too long, but terrorists and others who wish us harm can cause significant damage without significant resources. Therefore it is an important point, especially in the light of the foreign fighters flooding back to their own countries, including the United Kingdom, as Daesh is dismantled in Iraq and Syria.

That said, a fine balance must also be struck between keeping our citizens safe—a priority for any Government is the security of their citizens—at the same time as protecting the fundamental rights of individuals. While the threshold for designating individuals for counterterrorism asset freezes may have been lowered by the Bill, the protections and procedural safeguards offered elsewhere are robust and in line with international best practice. Let me highlight two areas.

[Lord Marlesford (Con)]

My Lords, just a moment ago the Minister—if I heard him right—said that terrorists are flooding back into the United Kingdom. Is that really what the Government think?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I shall repeat what I said for my noble friend. I said terrorists are flooding back to their places of origin, and of course there are people who may seek to return to the United Kingdom from Iraq and Syria. With the defeat of Daesh, that is a real possibility, so we need to ensure that there are measures both to keep them where they are in terms of prosecution and, if they do return, to ensure that any sanctions that we need are readily available.

I was about to provide practical examples of, first, challenges to designations allowing a route for redress for sanctioned individuals and entities; and, secondly, of reviews of regimes to ensure that the Government conduct due diligence on the restrictive measures they impose. In the Bill, there are two methods by which an individual can challenge their designation. The first allows them to request a reassessment of their listing by the Secretary of State. This is designed to offer quick redress to individuals, enabling those who are incorrectly designated or who can provide evidence which refutes the reason for their designation to be removed from a listing by the Secretary of State with the minimum of delay. If the designation is upheld following the administrative reassessment, individuals can challenge that designation before the High Court on the principles of judicial review. This is the second means of challenge. Provision is included in the Bill to allow for classified evidence to be shared with the court where appropriate. For UN sanctions, which the UK has an obligation to implement under international law, an individual can make a request that the Secretary of State uses his best endeavours to remove that person’s name from the UN list. Were the Secretary of State to decide not to seek a delisting at the UN, the individual can challenge that decision before the High Court.

It is important that the Government review sanction regimes and listings to make sure they remain fit for purpose and up to date. Sanctions are not designed to be punitive or permanent. They are always intended as a temporary measure designed to prevent or change behaviour. Regimes must have a clear purpose. A regular review will ensure that remains the case. The Government will conduct an annual political review of each regime to check that it remains appropriate for its purpose. Every three years the Government will review all the designations under the regime to make sure they remain necessary and continue to meet the evidential threshold. As now, the Government will continue to be able to grant licences to allow activities that would otherwise be prohibited—for example, to allow individuals subject to an asset freeze to pay for their essential needs, such as food or legal fees.

We recognise that there have been criticisms of the current EU licensing system. This was highlighted to me last year when we had to ask the EU to amend the Syrian regime so that general licences could be granted permitting NGOs to provide humanitarian aid and associated support activities. This Bill will give the Government more flexibility to issue such general licences, which will provide more clarity to humanitarian organisations and reduce unnecessary bureaucracy.

I know that many noble Lords will be interested in what impact the new regime will have on business. We recognise that multiple divergent sanction regimes can raise compliance costs for business. This is already an issue on Iran, for example, where the EU and US apply different sanctions. As our impact assessment sets out, we expect the aggregate impact of the Bill on UK businesses to be less than £1 million. Most of these costs will relate to compliance as companies familiarise themselves with the UK regime and related guidance.

In designing and implementing future UK sanctions, we will, wherever possible, work closely with the EU, the United States and other international partners to ensure maximum alignment and to reduce the impact on business. We want to maintain close co-operation on sanctions with European and other international partners because, as I said earlier, they are most effective when delivered by a number of countries together. UN sanctions have global reach and are always our preferred option. Outside the UN, we expect to remain aligned with like-minded partners such as the EU and the US on many of the policy goals that drive sanctions.

For example, we continue to believe that sanctions on Russia must remain until the Minsk agreement has been fully implemented. It is too early to speculate on exactly what future co-operation with the EU will look like, and decisions in this regard will be taken at the appropriate time. As the Prime Minister has said, we are leaving the EU, not Europe. Our aspiration is to remain close to partners on foreign policy issues, as proposed in Foreign Policy, Defence and Development: A Future Partnership Paper, which was published by the Department for Exiting the European Union on 12 September. For now, we remain active in shaping and implementing sanctions within the EU.

In conclusion, this is an important Bill to ensure that a legislative framework is available to the Government to maintain and adjust sanctions and anti-money laundering measures once we have left the European Union. It will allow us to continue to fulfil our international obligations and to work with allies to protect and promote our shared values. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, first, I thank all noble Lords for their very thoughtful speeches today. Again, they reflect the experience and expertise in your Lordships’ House not only in the matter before us, but in all discussions and debates we have. I cannot agree more with the final point made by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, on the issue of co-operation and working constructively. I hope that I have done so thus far, in terms of engagement and taking on the chin, as a Minister often does, the criticisms levelled at the Government. That will certainly be the basis on which I hope to continue the engagement we have had so far, and as we go forward.

Getting this Bill right, as I said at the start, is very important and our ability to impose sanctions and anti-money laundering measures is central to our vision of a rules-based international system. While, shall we say, differing opinions were expressed during the debate, the principle that I have just articulated is something that we all very much subscribe to. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Collins, the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, for the constructive discussions we have had with the respective Front Benches, and that will continue to be the case.

Again, all noble Lords have agreed on the importance of flexibility and the ability to impose sanctions against the most undesirable regimes—and not just the most undesirable. We find regimes across the world that commit inexplicable horrors against their own populations. When we leave the EU—I say “when”, correcting the noble Baroness, Lady Northover; I am sure that it was a mistake when she used the word “if”—it is right that we have the same ability to continue not to have any flights of assets.

At this juncture, I acknowledge the contribution of my noble friend Lady Anelay, who so aptly spoke of the principles, but also the sentiments and emotions of why we are doing this. This is about human beings, after all; it is about the human element that sanctions are imposed for. If we were living in a perfect world, we would not be having this debate but, unfortunately, that is not the case.

As I said in the opening speech—I hesitate to use the word “technical”, after listening to the noble Lord, Lord McNally—it is a Bill based on principle. Perhaps that is a better way to put it. Of course, I worked very closely with the noble Lord, Lord McNally, and we have had many discussions on this, although those discussions remain as part of the coalition agreement of that time. I listened carefully to his contribution and, in particular, to that of the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge. I heard what he said about the powers of the Executive through secondary legislation. I was aware of his previous articles and the speeches that he has given, particularly on the Henry VIII powers. But let me assure all noble Lords that our intent here is not to take powers for the sake of the Executive; it is about ensuring that we have flexibility and sustainability in a sanctions regime.

As I am sure the noble and learned Lord will acknowledge, there are precedents for the use of secondary legislation, although I am sure that it will not change his opinion in any way. One example, of course, is the export control orders under the Export Control Act 2002. I fully acknowledge the difference in the views of noble Lords in this regard, but the Government are certainly of the view that we must balance the need to act swiftly with the importance of parliamentary oversight, which I alluded to earlier.

While the principle is clear, we must, as noble Lords have acknowledged, get the detail right, and the expertise of noble Lords in this Chamber will be vital to ensure that we get progress in this regard. While there are differences, as we have said already, I believe that we can agree on the broad principles of why this Bill is necessary.

I am conscious of limits on time, and I shall seek to get through as many of the issues raised as I can, with the caveat that, if I am unable to answer specific questions that noble Lords have raised, I shall write to them. To take an issue on process, I should say that the Delegated Powers Committee was supposed to meet earlier, but I believe that the revised date is 15 November. I look over to the Box and get a thumbs up, which is always good; it happens rarely from the Box, but I got that one right. Working through the usual channels, we will ensure that the Committee sittings reflect the ability to have that detailed scrutiny.

I turn to some of the questions asked, first by the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles. I welcome her expertise in this area—and I look forward to working with her, particularly on the aspects of money laundering that she raised. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, spoke about the definition and powers being too broad. The definition of money laundering in the Bill replicates that currently used in UK law. It is necessarily broad to ensure that the full range of illicit activity criminalised through the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002 is similarly captured by the Bill. Where a person’s rights under the European Convention on Human Rights are affected by any regulations made under Clause 41, the Minister responsible will still be under the existing legal obligation to act with proportionality, as per Section 6 of the Human Rights Act.

The noble Baroness raised the issue of failure to prevent offences, and the noble Lord, Lord Hain, mentioned that in his contribution. When bringing forward secondary legislation of this type, we will consult and act in view of the responses, ensuring that there is a proportionate approach taken in this regard.

The noble Lord, along with the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, and my noble friend Lord Freeman also raised the issue of beneficial ownership information and overseas territories. As the Minister responsible for OTs—it has been a rather busy brief in recent times—I can assure them that this issue is not lost on the Government. On the contrary, Crown dependencies and overseas territories have agreed to hold company beneficial ownership information in a central register and to share it with UK law enforcement on request. As noble Lords know, we have legislated through the Criminal Finances Act 2017 to review the effectiveness of the first 18 months of these arrangements, which will be before us on 1 July 2019. The Government’s focus right now is also on supporting the Crown dependencies and OTs in fully meeting their obligations in this regard.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, referred to her regret Motion regarding the 2017 regulations. This is a happy place, and when we hear the word “regret”, that is always regrettable. As the noble Baroness notes, it will be debated on 6 November and the Government will respond more fully at that time. The transposition deadline by which the UK was legally required to implement the directive was 26 June 2017. This allowed very little time for the Government to publish the regulations after the general election, due to purdah restrictions. We regret that, as she acknowledged, there was a breach of the 21-day rule connected with the transposition of this directive. However, we had consulted extensively with stakeholders on our policy intention. That is all I will say right now; I am sure we will return to this issue when we debate the regret Motion.

The noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Hain, raised the issue of the Government’s approach to criminal offences in secondary legislation. The 2017 money laundering regulations deal with both civil and criminal penalties, and the primary money laundering criminal offences are set out in the Proceeds of Crime Act 2002. The offences established through the money laundering regulations provide a necessary backstop to penalise the most serious sustained breaches of the regulations. Criminal sentences for sanction offences are set out in Clause 16(4), which refers to a statutory maximum of 10 years. I will write to the noble Baroness and the noble Lord about the other details.

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, and the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, raised the exercise of power with appropriate safeguards. Yes, in our view there are sufficient safeguards. First, Parliament must authorise every type of sanction that can be imposed. Secondly, all designations are supported by evidence. Thirdly, those affected can ask for a reassessment and challenge through the courts. Fourthly, the Minister must act in accordance with human rights, as per Section 6 of the Human Rights Act 1998. Let me assure noble Lords that we intend to write this week to the newly constituted Joint Committee on Human Rights, setting out the detailed analysis of what I have just described.

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, also talked about explicit authority for Parliament for non-UN sanctions. The Bill sets out in detail in Clauses 2 to 6 what Parliament is authorising. As I said in my opening remarks, any new sanction can take effect only after a vote in both Houses authorising that regulation.

The noble and learned Lord also raised the issue of appeals to the Supreme Court being available for the Court of Session in Scotland. Yes, the intention is very much that appeals to both the High Court and the Court of Session will be available.

The noble Lord, Lord Pannick, among others, raised proportionality, seeking assurance that it will always be part of the decision regarding non-UN sanctions. Yes, I can assure noble Lords that where human rights are affected, a Minister will always need to comply with the European Convention on Human Rights and Strasbourg case law, and that will include an assessment of proportionality.

Concern was expressed by several noble Lords about taking powers to prevent money laundering. The UK’s appeal as a financial centre makes it necessary that we prevent money laundering effectively—a point acknowledged by several noble Lords. The 2017 regulations and the EU funds transfer regulation both require that the transfer of funds be accompanied by specified information, enabling effective monitoring and transfer of funds. This will be vital in enabling enforcement authorities to understand and disrupt illicit financial flows.

The noble Lord, Lord Pannick, also raised designation by personal description. We anticipate that we will have sufficient information to identify a person and, where it is the case, we will do so by name. Designation of persons by description is necessary to deal with members of proscribed terrorist organisations who, for example, conceal their identities. We will also provide as much detail as we can so that businesses and banks can carry on their business.

The noble Lord went further and asked about the imposition of financial sanctions on persons connected with a prescribed country. This is necessary to ensure that broad sectoral measures can be imposed which restrict general access to financial persons and markets. There are other elements within this and exemptions that may be applied, so I will write to the noble Lord and place the letter in the Library as well.

The issue of thresholds was also raised by the noble Lord. Where relevant convention rights are engaged, proportionality will, as I have said, be part of the decision-making. Under Section 6 of the Human Rights Act 1998, the appropriate Minister must act in compliance with those convention rights and Strasbourg case law. We accept that this includes the need for the Minister to satisfy himself or herself that the designation is proportionate and includes consideration of the impact of the individual.

The noble Lord also raised issues of procedural fairness and several other matters. In the interests of time and covering other aspects, I will, with his kind permission, write to him and copy other noble Lords into that response.

The noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, who speaks from great experience of the European Parliament, talked about resourcing enforcement of sanctions. We have increased the maximum criminal sentences for breaches of financial sanctions in the Policing and Crime Act to seven years, which we are enabling in this Bill. This means that a breach of financial sanctions is a serious crime, which allows the National Crime Agency to dedicate significant resources to investigations and prosecutions.

She also asked about our having no influence on sanctions as we leave the EU. A question on our relationship was also asked by the noble Lord, Lord Collins. It would be great if I could say, “Right, here’s the page and here’s the answer”, but all this is under negotiation and the exact nature of our future relationship with the EU on sanctions, like much else, still needs to be determined. However, we need to look at this from a global context, with our relationship, our permanent seat on the Security Council at the UN and our other international engagement. The UK has led on many issues within the European Union and I certainly believe, reflecting the optimism across government, that pragmatism will prevail in many areas. I am sure we will see greater detail emerge on this relationship.

Periodic reviews were raised by the noble Lord, Lord Pannick, and my noble friend Lord Gold. These provisions are to ensure that designations are kept under regular review and do not simply lie on the shelf. It is important to remember that a number of things can happen within the period that we have set. First, the designated person can request a review and have the decision looked at again; secondly, they can challenge in court; thirdly, if new evidence arises or there is a new matter that has not been considered, they can request a further review; fourthly, the appropriate Minister can instigate a review on their own initiative in response to changing events; and fifthly, the appropriate Minister can bring the deadline forward and complete the review before the end of the three-year period. Given all this, and that the matter of designation is clearly a live matter throughout the period, we do not consider the period to be excessive.

Turning to other questions from several noble Lords, the issue of transparency associated with Scottish limited partnerships was raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Bowles. As of June this year, Scottish limited partnerships have been brought into the scope of the public register of beneficial ownership maintained by Companies House. They are also required to submit an annual confirmation statement that the information held on this register is accurate and to keep the information up to date.

My noble friend Lord Freeman asked whether the UK would remain a member of the Financial Action Task Force. The short answer is yes; the UK is the leading member of the Financial Action Task Force and has been since its establishment. We will continue to fulfil this leadership role after leaving the European Union, so as to continue to influence international standards.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, raised the FATF. Given her expertise and experience, she will be aware that the standards set by the Financial Action Task Force form the basis for both the fourth money laundering directive and anti-money laundering legislation in FATF member states outside the EU. This reflects the international nature of how financial crime can be targeted and dealt with.

Beneficial ownership of property was raised by the noble Baroness and my noble friend Lord Freeman. We sought views earlier this year on the proposed ownership register of overseas companies that own UK property. The responses are being reviewed by the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, which will make an announcement in due course.

Among other things in his contribution, my noble friend Lord James gave some practical examples of the Bill’s operation and asked whether it would stop money laundering in Libya. The short answer is yes; the powers in the Bill will enable us to locate and prohibit that type of criminal activity. We can also put sanctions in place against terrorist groups.

I turn to some of the other questions, to demonstrate that we were listening. The noble Lord, Lord Hain, raised a specific issue in relation to Dubai and Hong Kong having ties with the Gupta family. I am grateful to the noble Lord for bringing this information to our attention. As he acknowledged, he has already written to my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer, and I will, of course, bring his contribution to my right honourable friend’s attention.

The noble Viscount, Lord Waverley, referred to international collaboration. I thank him for his wise words on the importance of linking sanctions to strategy agreed with international allies. The global impact of sanctions can work only if there is consensus across like-minded states.

My noble friend Lord Gold referred to anti-money laundering regulations being risk-based and proportionate. I agree with him. He is right to highlight the importance of firms taking a proportionate approach to implementing anti-money laundering systems and controls, and ensuring that they properly target the highest risks in this regard.

The noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, asked about the Bill’s provision for general licences for humanitarian needs. I suggest to her that there are specific clauses on this issue. I will write to her in this respect but Clause 14(3)(a) allows the Government to issue specific and general licences. However, I am keen to hear her views on that, and those of the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, who was formerly a Minister with responsibility for this area, so it would be useful to hear from her. The noble Baroness, Lady Northover, asked whether we were talking. Yes, we are. My noble friend was sitting right next to me and we are working very closely with the Department for International Development in this regard.

The noble Baroness, Lady Northover, also referred to the anti-money laundering clause that was included at the last minute. That was always the plan, and she will have noticed that we have been transparent about this since the start. Our plans were set out in the FCO, HMT and DIT joint consultation, which was published in April, and confirmed in the government responses.

I apologise to the noble Lord, Lord Paddick: I will write to him on his specific questions as I had to leave the Chamber momentarily during his intervention. However, I thank him for it as we have talked about some of his concerns outside the Chamber. I hope that they have been addressed.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, referred to licences for NGOs and said that they should be open-ended and last the duration of the regime. The Bill, as drafted, can deliver this.

I will write to noble Lords on any issues that I have not had time to cover today. Once again, I emphasise that the Bill is about powers rather than policy. It is not about punishing specific individuals, groups or Governments, but about enabling this Government, and every future UK Government, to act to keep this country safe and continue to play a responsible role in international peace and security once we leave the European Union.

It would be remiss of me not to conclude, entirely appropriately, by putting on record, if I may, the thanks of the whole House to my noble friend Lady Anelay. I embarrass her somewhat, but that is not my purpose. She has served both government and this House—and, indeed, our country—in an exemplary fashion. On a personal level, she was my first boss in government. She was the guiding hand of the Chief Whip when I first joined the Front Bench and acted not only as a guide, a mentor and a colleague but, most importantly, as a friend. She leaves the Front Bench with many fond memories, as she herself acknowledged in her contribution. Equally, however, the Front Bench has lost a great exponent of government policy who carries the full respect of this House. If I can emulate perhaps a portion of what my noble friend has achieved in her career, I will be a happy Peer. On that positive note, I thank all noble Lords again for their extremely valuable contributions and look forward to working with all across the Chamber on this important Bill.

Bill read a second time and committed to a Committee of the Whole House.