Commonwealth Summit: Freedom of Religion or Belief

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 25th April 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Berridge]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they took to promote freedom of religion or belief as part of the human rights agenda discussed at the Commonwealth Summit.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, last week the Heads of Government from the Commonwealth pledged to work together to foster a fairer future for all Commonwealth citizens. During the summit, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary announced a £4 million accountable democracy programme, working with Commonwealth organisations and the Westminster Foundation for Democracy. The programme will focus on the political participation of marginalised groups, including religious minorities and women. While we are chair-in-office, we will continue to raise freedom of religion or belief with Commonwealth members as a core value of the Commonwealth charter.

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his Answer and declare my interest in relation to a Commonwealth initiative on freedom of religion or belief. While it is unfortunate that Her Majesty’s Government’s priority of freedom of religion or belief did not find its way into the communiqué, especially bearing in mind that the communiqué makes reference to the Rohingya population in Bangladesh who have fled religious persecution, I would be grateful if the Minister could outline how the two-year chairmanship-in-office will be used to highlight the freedom of religion or belief aspects of issues such as the Rohingya Muslim population.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

First, I pay tribute to my noble friend’s work in this area. Let me assure my noble friend, and indeed all noble Lords, that this continues to be a key priority for Her Majesty’s Government. During the course of the Commonwealth summit, various announcements were made on the broader human rights agenda, including a financing proposal in support of this. As a further assurance, I am sure that she has read the Written Ministerial Statement from my right honourable friend the Prime Minister, which was laid in this House by my noble friend the Leader of the House. It talks specifically about the values agenda, ensuring that all people’s rights, wherever they are in the Commonwealth, are fully protected. I also offer to work with my noble friend Lady Berridge on key priorities as we plan for our two years in office.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I congratulate the Minister on his efforts at CHOGM to ensure that these issues were raised. Of course, he is quite right to point out the importance of freedom of religious belief in terms of combating extremism and promoting democracy. Is there not now a case for ensuring that freedom of religious belief is mainstreamed across all Westminster departments, because it is not just simply the Foreign Office that needs to be responsible for this? Is there not a case for a champion who can work across government departments?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord makes an important point. Let me assure him that we are working across Whitehall on this important priority as with other areas, particularly with our colleagues in the Department for International Development. The other notable feature is that, on taking this office, I wrote to all our diplomatic missions—not just in the Commonwealth but throughout the world— prioritising this issue. We have champions within key priority countries as well, who are focusing on the very issues of freedom of religion or belief and the protection of minority rights, guaranteeing their rights as citizens of those countries.

[Lord Chidgey (LD)]

My Lords, the Heads of Government emphasised the importance of promoting and strengthening good governance for all of our democratic principles. It was subsequently reported—I think the Minister has already confirmed this—that the Government are going to contribute further funds, some £4 million, towards these aims. In that event, can the Minister commit to clarifying the Government’s plans in the context of engagement with other agencies, both in the UK and overseas, to deliver on those objectives? Do they plan to include parliamentary oversight of such programmes, drawing on the expertise of both Houses?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am sure that the noble Lord knows that I regard parliamentary expertise across parties and across both Houses as something that I personally value. I thank the noble Lord and others for their contributions to the events last week. Let me assure him that we are working with partners: I mentioned the Westminster Foundation for Democracy, and we also work with the accredited Commonwealth organisations and institutions to ensure that we deliver on the key priorities of that values agenda.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister explain why, despite regular reports about the ill-treatment of women and religious minorities in India, that country has been left off the list of Commonwealth countries where we have concerns about human rights. Could that be because India is an important trading partner?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

We foster positive engagement with India, and it is right that we do so. Our diasporas here in the UK reflect the strength of our relationship with India. On the specific point about human rights, I assure the noble Lord that, while we prioritise, for example, 30 priority countries in the human rights report, that in no way reflects the fact that we raise these issues with other countries in the world. Whether with India or with other parts of the Commonwealth, we will continue to raise the issue of human rights.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interests, and I congratulate the Minister on the role he played in the success of the Commonwealth summit last week. Would he accept that, in addition to a number of government initiatives that were announced in the communiqué, the real force and value of the Commonwealth network nowadays lies increasingly in civil society and the private sector, and the massive and growing data connectivity between the younger generation throughout the whole 53 members of the Commonwealth? The future value of the Commonwealth network lies in those areas and in the huge and new consumer markets of Asia and Africa.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with my noble friend, and as I am sure everyone saw, we put the issue of young people at the heart of the Commonwealth summit last week, as well as the issue of civil society. We had record numbers of civil society organisations—representative of all aspects of civil society, whether on issues such as youth or LGBT issues or religious freedom—represented across the four fora. That underlines our commitment as a Government and as chair-in-office for two years, to take forward the very priorities my noble friend put forward.

Israel-Palestine Conflict

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 27th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Tonge]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the importance of the right of return of Palestinian refugees to the resolution of the Israeli-Palestine conflict.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, as part of a resolution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, there needs to be a just, fair, agreed and realistic solution to the question of Palestinian refugees in line with the United Nations Security Council Resolution 1515. Any such agreement must be demographically compatible with two states for two peoples. The United Kingdom remains committed to supporting Palestinian refugees, including through the United Nations Relief and Works Agency, to which we have so far provided over £50 million in 2017-18.

[Baroness Tonge (Non-Afl)]

I thank the Minister for that response, but is the Minister aware of families like that of Haj Abdullah Shahata from Kuwaykat in Palestine who were driven from their homes and prosperous farms 70 years ago, and have been living in camps and temporary accommodation in Lebanon since then? Is he aware that the Lebanese Government continue to restrict Palestinians’ right to work, prohibit them from owning property and refuse them access to healthcare and education, leaving them dependent on UNRWA, which has diminishing funds? Can he really be content to let this continue for another 70 years, or will the Palestinians be allowed the right of return to their homeland as prescribed in international law?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As I have already said in my original Answer, of course the importance of refugees returning to the Holy Land, to the Palestinian territories, is an important part of the peace resolution. Let me reassure the noble Baroness that, in terms of money and financing, as I have already said we remain committed to UNRWA and continue to provide support. We also continue to provide financial support to the Palestinian Authority. This financial support allows for the education for the next generation, which I know is a priority for the noble Baroness. While I fully acknowledge the challenge of the Palestinian refugees, particularly those living in camps, from a UK perspective we remain committed to the two-state solution and also committed to supporting UNRWA in its efforts.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister keeps mentioning UNRWA, but the President of the United States has decided that the Palestinians’ position needs to be punished and that there needs to be some form of retribution because of their decision over Jerusalem. What are the Government doing to persuade the US that punishing the Palestinians is not the right way forward, and that we should be working together as allies to support UNRWA? Have the Government had any discussions at Foreign Office level with the new national security adviser and the new Secretary of State, both of whom have taken positions that could make life very difficult for the Palestinians?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I reassure the noble Lord that I speak for Her Majesty’s Government, and the Government remain committed to a two-state solution and to UNRWA. Regarding the relationship with the United States, we continue to implore the United States, which is a key player in finding a lasting Middle East settlement, to engage fully with all parties and to continue engagement with both the Palestinians and the Israelis in finding a resolution to this crisis, which, as the noble Baroness has said, has gone on for far too long. In response to the question about specific meetings, most recently my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has had discussions on a range of issues relating to foreign policy with American counterparts, and we continue to do so.

[Baroness Deech (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree with me that this is a problem that need not exist? Of the 60 million refugees in the world, only the Palestinians are treated as refugees for generation after generation, when they should have been resettled in the lands where they are living now, as were the same number of Jews who were expelled from the Middle East in the late 1940s. It is time to call a halt to this artificial definition, which is destined to use people as bargaining chips.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The one point on which I will agree with the noble Baroness is that it is important to find a resolution to this long-standing issue. The Palestinians, as the Jewish communities of Israel before them, have suffered for too long from being disassociated and removed from the holy lands. We need to find a lasting solution that is fair for both the Palestinian people and of course Israel.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

My Lords, I say to my noble friend that achieving the right of return is going to be extraordinarily difficult and probably impractical. What we can do is to urge upon the Government of Israel the importance of desisting from building settlements around Jerusalem. That could make a substantial contribution to a resolution of the conflict in the Middle East.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with my noble friend. The issue of return in any refugee crisis that we have seen since time immemorial has always been challenging. I agree with him totally on the issue of settlements. Our position is clear: any settlement that is built in the Occupied Territories is illegal and against UN resolutions.

[Lord Winston (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare an interest in this regard: I am a Zionist. Many of my family have been living in Israel since the 15th century after the persecution in Spain. Is it not fair to point out that one of the problems about the repatriation or readmittance of Palestinians is the firm resolve by so many of them to try to destroy the state of Israel? As long as that happens—the openly avowed intention is to ensure that Israel does not exist—that remains a very big problem in these negotiations.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Any party that believes in the destruction of Israel of course cannot be party to a peace process. The UK Government have made it clear that, before taking part in any peaceful negotiations on the two-state solution, any party at the negotiating table needs to agree the right of Israel to exist, so I agree with the noble Lord. Equally, I am sure he would agree with me that there are many on the Palestinian side who not only recognise Israel’s right to exist but believe most passionately in the coexistence of Arabs, Jews, Christians and indeed all faiths and communities living peacefully side by side. That is what we believe the two-state solution provides.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, on the question of taking forward a two-state solution, does the Minister not feel that the UK should recognise Palestine, as most other countries in the world do?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

It has been the position of Her Majesty’s Government that we will recognise officially the state of Palestine when we feel that would be most constructive and progressive to ensuring a peaceful resolution to the conflict, which has gone on for too long. At the same time, we also recognise the right of Palestinian children and Palestinian people to get support in terms of health and education, and we continue to support them and the Palestinian Authority in that regard.

[Lord Hylton (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that the Palestinian refugee population—particularly in the neighbouring countries, as mentioned by the noble Baroness—has been consistently excluded from all political negotiation? Therefore, would Her Majesty’s Government favour consultation with those people to discover what are their own wishes? Could UNRWA, as their friend, advocate and protector, be allowed at least observer status?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

We continue to abide by the agreement reached at the UN for a two-state solution. The Palestinian people, including the Palestinian refugees, are represented and their views are known by the Palestinian representatives in the peace negotiations.

Nigeria

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 26th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Cox]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of recent developments in Nigeria, with particular reference to attacks on civilians by Boko Haram and the Fulani.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we welcome the news that some of the Dapchi girls have been released and offer condolences to the families of those reported to have died. We call for an immediate release of all those abducted. Such attacks are abhorrent and must stop. We are also deeply concerned about ongoing clashes involving pastoralists and farmers, and have raised the issue with the Nigerian authorities. We urge the Nigerian Government to bring the perpetrators to justice and implement longer-term solutions.

[Baroness Cox (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. Is he aware that, last time I was in Nigeria, I visited four Christian villages in Plateau state that had been attacked by the Fulani herdsmen, stood in the house where they had murdered the pastor, visited the homes which had been destroyed and saw Fulani cattle grazing everywhere? This situation has been multiplied many times, with the murder in recent months of hundreds of Christians and the destruction of their villages by increasingly well-armed and aggressive Fulani. Will Her Majesty’s Government therefore make rather stronger representations to the Government of Nigeria to fulfil their obligations to ensure the protection of all their citizens, especially given recent developments of Christians being deliberately targeted?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Let me assure the noble Baroness and all noble Lords that wherever in the world we find minorities being targeted, we raise that as part of our prioritisation of the freedom of religion and belief. I assure her further that we have raised the issues of the current and recurrent clashes between the herdsmen and the local farmers. We welcome President Buhari’s commitment to assist the affected communities. I agree with the noble Baroness that this has had a devastating impact on lives and communities, as well as on the general safety and security of all citizens. We are engaging with the federal and state Governments to encourage them to work with all parties, so that we can develop safe solutions for all communities in that part of Nigeria.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, clearly a key issue is that these herdsmen have been affected by changes in the law. Surely there must be a way forward that understands their needs, as well as ensuring that communities are not affected by the violence outlined by the noble Baroness. What are the Government doing to work out a way forward by supporting civil society initiatives that will enable the herdsmen to carry on living the life that they so desire to live?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Of course the role of civil society is important, but if we look at the conflict in Nigeria, we estimate that more than 20,000 people have been killed and more than 70 million affected. The current crisis is not just one of religion; in some parts, the herdsmen are Christians while the farmers are Muslims. It is the likes of Boko Haram, particularly in the northern part of the country, which have driven the herdsmen into territories that they were not previously occupying. So it is more complex than it is sometimes painted, which is as a particular issue between two faiths. It is not; it goes far deeper, and Boko Haram is driving these herdsmen south.

[Lord Chidgey (LD)]

My Lords, Mrs Hamsatu Allamin, founder of Maiduguri Allamin Foundation for Peace, claims that members of Boko Haram are ready to drop their weapons, but government stakeholders benefiting from the insurgency are deliberately prolonging the terrorism. Mrs Allamin says:

“Illiterate, hapless and hopeless boys drawn from communities by Boko Haram leader Abubakar Shekau perpetrate violence. While others benefit, thousands have been arrested in Maiduguri and disappeared”.


What are the outcomes of DfID’s £92 million security and justice budget in 2017 for the region, and what impact has been made specifically in conflict prevention?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As the noble Lord will be aware, because of the challenges within Nigeria, much of the support that DfID presents has been spent on important issues such as sanitation, food provision and providing safety and security to children going to school. The noble Lord mentioned Boko Haram putting down their arms. Let us be clear: the ideology that drives the likes of Boko Haram is a perverse ideology. It is not there to make peace but to break the peace. Indeed, the Islamic State of West Africa group, which has different tactics, is also inspired by the same ideology. The important thing is that we have seen the Nigerian Government take some punitive steps against them and, where they can, bring the criminals to justice.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, is it not the position that our fellow Commonwealth country, Nigeria, which is one of the world’s largest nations, is confronting enemies of pure, undiluted evil? Is it not possible to think beyond representations to ways in which, through training and technical assistance or direct military assistance either under the aegis of the Commonwealth or directly, we can begin to tackle what is really a very straightforward situation of undiluted evil that must be overcome and resisted?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Certainly the Commonwealth is a force for good in looking at tackling some of these issues. As my noble friend will be aware, the United Kingdom and Australia funded the Countering Violent Extremism unit within the Commonwealth. We are working on areas such as building training and support for the Nigerian authorities and will continue to build their capacity to deal with such issues.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

When the Minister next meets his Nigeria counterparts, will he address two of the causes of the growth of the Fulani militias and Boko Haram and ask him why, in defiance of the Nigerian constitution and Article 18 obligations, sharia law has been imposed in 12 states, providing impunity during the displacement of hundreds of thousands of people, abductions, land seizures, murders and violence such as the shooting in the mouth of a female choir singer, and how the Nigerian Government will address the fertile breeding ground for recruiting sergeants such as the kleptomania of corrupt leaders that has led the Nigerian Economic and Financial Crimes Commission to state that some $360 billion has been stolen, while in the impoverished north where these groups have been growing some 70% of children never go to school?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is right to raise this. Corruption is part of the reason that we see various challenges. It is very prevalent in certain parts of the country, which drives other causes and results in groups such as Boko Haram and the Islamic State of West Africa coming to the fore. Those vacuums exist and need to be filled. On the issue of sharia law being imposed on communities that do not adhere to sharia, it is against all principles, it is against the Nigerian constitution and—I will also add—against Islam itself. They need to wake up and smell the coffee, because they are perpetrating heinous crimes against humanity and are nothing to do with any constitution or religion.

Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting 2018

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 22nd March 2018 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That this House takes note of the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting 2018.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I am delighted to introduce this debate, just over a week after celebrating Commonwealth Day, and with less than a fortnight to go until the Commonwealth Games open on Australia’s Gold Coast. It provides a wonderful opportunity for your Lordships’ House to discuss the future of this great organisation and the forthcoming Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting, which will take place right here in London, in the United Kingdom, during the week of 16 April.

The Commonwealth is a unique global network. It is home to one-third of the world’s people, contains some of the world’s fastest growing economies and accounts for one-fifth of the world’s trade. With nearly two-thirds of its population—around 1 billion people—under the age of 30, the Commonwealth is well placed to be an influential player on the world stage in the years ahead. Indeed, one could even say that it has a responsibility to play such a role. Its diverse membership is committed to a set of values founded on democracy and the rule of law and embodied in the Commonwealth charter. With member countries that range from some of the world’s largest to some of its smallest, their climates from the tropical to the Arctic, their economies developed and developing, the Commonwealth itself takes its strength from this rich diversity.

Moving on to the summit in April, every one of these countries will have an equal voice at next month’s summit, and it will be a privilege to welcome them all. I am particularly pleased that an unprecedented number of Heads of Governments, Presidents and Prime Ministers will be attending this meeting, along with their Foreign Ministers, civil society leaders, businesspeople and perhaps most significantly—referring to the statistic that 60% of the Commonwealth is under 30—young people, two of whom as a minimum will be part of the official delegation of every country from all corners of the Commonwealth.

This summit will be an opportunity for the United Kingdom to demonstrate the openness of our society, the scope of our ambition for the Commonwealth and the strength of our enthusiasm to deepen partnerships with some of our oldest and closest friends. It will also give all 53 members of the Commonwealth the opportunity to build on the excellent work started in Malta three years ago to rejuvenate this unique organisation and make it fit for the 21st century. This summit and Heads of Government Meeting marks an important moment in the Commonwealth’s history. The Commonwealth has done important work in the past: it has supported countries through their transition to independence, helping them to develop free and democratic institutions, and bringing about an end to apartheid in South Africa. At the last summit we saw how Heads of Government came together to press for an ambitious climate change agreement in Paris, and we have recently witnessed the valuable work of the Secretary-General herself and her secretariat in brokering a political agreement in Zambia.

However, for the Commonwealth to face the global challenges of the 21st century and to truly represent its overwhelmingly young population, it must have a clear purpose, supported by all 53 member states. That is why this summit will focus on four clear priorities, on which leaders will seek to agree action. The first is to build a more prosperous future by making the compelling case for free trade as the best way to promote higher living standards around the world. The second is to build a safer future by addressing the security challenges, such as those posed by global terrorism, organised crime and cyberattacks. The third is to build a sustainable future, including by helping small and vulnerable states to mitigate the effects of climate change. The final priority focuses on building that fairer future by promoting the values of democracy, freedom and good governance set out in the Commonwealth charter. Our ambitions for the summit are encapsulated in the theme “Towards a Common Future”. We want the summit to contribute to rejuvenating the Commonwealth and to help to build a brighter and fairer future for its young citizens. Their interests and ambitions will be at the heart of this summit.

I assure noble Lords that we have been working very closely with member states, the Commonwealth Secretariat and civil society groups to put together a programme for the summit week that will strengthen the prosperity and security of all Commonwealth countries and their citizens. Since my appointment as Minister of State for the Commonwealth last June, I have had the great privilege and pleasure of visiting many Commonwealth countries, including India, Bangladesh, Jamaica, Trinidad and Tobago, Barbados and Ghana. Last September, I had the opportunity to visit the Pacific Islands Forum in Samoa before also visiting Fiji and Australia, and I represented the United Kingdom at the Commonwealth Foreign Affairs Ministers Meeting during UNGA week in New York.

Last month, I was delighted to have the huge privilege to be not only the first British Minister but, I believe, the first Minister from any other Commonwealth country to travel to the newest member of the Commonwealth, the Gambia, just days after it had rejoined the Commonwealth. I had the opportunity to meet President Barrow and Minister of Foreign Affairs Darboe, and I held talks with Justice and Trade Ministers. Most significantly, I alluded to the youth of the Commonwealth. I spent some time with youth activists, human rights defenders and faith leaders, all of whom are doing important work in building a new vision for Gambia—one that upholds democracy, the rule of law, human rights and equality for all citizens.

From what I have gleaned from official meetings with government leaders and informal discussions with young people in all the countries I have visited, as well as in the UK, it is my strong belief that the Commonwealth has a powerful role to play in the modern world. People across the Commonwealth are not just genuinely enthusiastic but passionate about their membership of this great organisation, and recognise the part it can play in building a brighter future for their respective countries.

All citizens of the Commonwealth have an important role to play in building that better future. We believe that the Commonwealth can do just that, based on its three pillars: member-to-member state relationships; moving together collectively as 53 member states, as we will do during the summit week and CHOGM; and the incredible third element of the Commonwealth’s network of professions, citizens and civil society groups. It is this third element—the network of people and organisations working together across borders—that gives the Commonwealth its unique character and strength. This human network consists of more than 85 organisations officially accredited to the Commonwealth, as well as many diaspora communities. I am sure noble Lords will join me in recognising the extraordinary contribution the Commonwealth diaspora communities make to our country.

As I have travelled around the UK, I have met some phenomenal representatives from all walks of life. I have travelled across England and was recently in Cardiff and Edinburgh, and I have been inspired by the energy and enthusiasm for the Commonwealth from the people of this country.

The structure of the summit will ensure that voices from all three pillars of the Commonwealth—its governance, its institutions and, most importantly, its people—are heard. The week begins with Commonwealth forums focused on business, people, youth and women. These will take place over three days and, for the first time, will convene in the same venue on one of those days. This will give delegates the valuable opportunity to discuss shared interests, forge new partnerships and celebrate common values. The forums will be followed by Foreign Ministers’ meetings and Heads of Government meetings, which will take place in Lancaster House, Buckingham Palace and Windsor Castle.

Our vision for the summit is for the Commonwealth forums to build meaningfully into the leaders’ event. We therefore hope that the discussions from the forums, as well as the views of other interested groups, will directly inform the discussion by the Heads of Government and shape the outcomes and mandates that leaders will approve. These mandates will be recorded in the communiqué and will determine the Commonwealth’s priorities for the next two years, which, significantly for the UK, will be during our tenure as chair-in-office. I assure the House that the United Kingdom wants to play a full and active role in the Commonwealth during our time as chair-in-office. The important work of rejuvenating this organisation will require a collective effort for many years to come. We will make sure that progress made in London is sustained over the coming years, and we will support member states in honouring their commitments. We will ensure that what is agreed at the summit goes beyond just words and is backed up by meaningful commitments and financial support. The Prime Minister will be making announcements on these commitments and support during the summit week.

In starting this important debate, I say in conclusion that we want this summit to be a memorable milestone in the Commonwealth’s history—the moment when the Commonwealth steps up to show that it can help to tackle some of the world’s most pressing challenges. I assure noble Lords that Her Majesty’s Government will work closely with our partner member states and across the Commonwealth with other partners to deliver on this ambition.

I look forward to this debate and to hearing from noble Lords, who have vast experience and wisdom, their views on the Commonwealth and on the Government’s plans for the summit. I also look forward to our discussions on the recent report of the International Relations Committee, so ably led by a real ambassador of the Commonwealth, my noble friend Lord Howell. I beg to move.

Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting 2018

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 22nd March 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I first thank all noble Lords for their expert and in-depth contributions to this debate. It again shows the tremendous interest and expertise in the Commonwealth in your Lordships’ House. From the outset, I thank again my noble friend Lord Howell for his committee’s report, but also for leading on this issue for a long time. I know that I, along with many other Lords, have benefited from his expertise in this area. I also congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Geidt, on his excellent maiden speech. It is perhaps appropriate—the noble Lord alluded to this—that our first meeting, which was shortly after my appointment, was at Buckingham Palace, when we were meeting different high commissioners, together with the Secretary-General, on the very issue of the Commonwealth summit.

Let me also give an assurance to all noble Lords. Several references were made to different leads and departments. The noble Lord, Lord Luce, also asked about a cross-government approach. Rightly, as noble Lords have acknowledged, this is not about one department over another; this has very much been led by the Prime Minister herself through the interministerial group. It underlines the important role that all departments must play in ensuring not only the planning but—coming to the point that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised among others—delivery during the time of the UK’s Chair-in-Office.

At this time, I also acknowledge and align myself to the words of my noble friends Lady Anelay and Lady Bottomley, and the noble Lord, Lord Geidt, among others, in paying tribute to Her Majesty the Queen. I talked about ambassadors, but there is no argument—sometimes we use the word “arguably”, but I will not actually use that word. There is no greater ambassador for the Commonwealth than Her Majesty the Queen. Look at the role Her Majesty has played over many years; it is a fitting tribute that we are holding this summit during the week that will culminate in an event at the Royal Albert Hall marking both her birthday and her contribution to the Commonwealth. We hope that the event will reflect that contribution. I also pay tribute to all members of the Royal Family: the Duke of Edinburgh for his unstinting support during Her Majesty’s reign, and also His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales, who I know has visited more than 40 countries of the Commonwealth and continues to support the efforts of the Commonwealth across all countries.

The noble Lord, Lord Desai, talked about the history behind the Commonwealth, which we all acknowledge. It is also important to recognise that, when Her Majesty’s Government or indeed any of us talk about the modern Commonwealth, the Commonwealth of today, it is one based on partnership. I have seen in my travels and bilateral discussions the immense respect for Her Majesty as Head of the Commonwealth—not as someone from history but as someone who has shown unstinting leadership at a time when countries need to come together. There is immense respect for that particular role.

Let me also reassure the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and the noble Baroness, Lady Prashar, on the points I alluded to in my introduction about the important role of civil society. As I said from the outset, this is not about the Government alone. It is not about member states alone. There are three pillars of the Commonwealth and a vital pillar is that network—the network which brings people together and which bridges gaps through ages, races, faiths and communities. That is something quite unique about the Commonwealth.

The noble Lord, Lord Chidgey, and my noble friend Lady Hooper talked about parliamentary engagement. I am greatly appreciative of the kind comments about the efforts of Her Majesty’s Government in this regard. As I have always said, parliamentarians have a crucial role to play in meeting the challenges facing the Commonwealth today. We recognise the extraordinary contribution that they make from across the Commonwealth.

In December last year, I wrote to all MPs and Peers setting out the Government’s close engagement in this respect. Since then I have met, individually and collectively, with different APPGs and Members of the other place and of your Lordships’ House across all parties. I have also written to the chairs of all-party parliamentary groups asking for their support in the planning and work during the Commonwealth week. I was also delighted to address more than 70 parliamentarians from the Commonwealth at the first ever Commonwealth Parliamentarians’ Forum. I assure the noble Lord, Lord Chidgey, that I saw the direct benefit of that. I hope there is a discussion I can take up with the noble Lord, among others, on how we can integrate that more fully in future CHOGMs as well. I also join him, among others, in congratulating the CPA UK team for organising that forum.

I assure noble Lords that, during the summit week, there will be a cross-party parliamentary delegation made up of Peers and MPs who have a history of Commonwealth interest and activity. As we are finalising events, there will be opportunities for parliamentarians to take part, because this should be a collective recognition and celebration but also a partnership of how parliamentarians come together in this role. We are also working with parliamentary authorities and the CPA UK on plans to hold a reception in Parliament on the evening of Tuesday 17 April, and I am delighted to say that the Speakers of both Houses have agreed to co-host the event.

I briefly want to mention the IRC report again, and acknowledge the work of my noble friend Lord Howell in this respect. I very much welcome his committee’s findings that our preparations for the summit demonstrate the strength of feeling that we in the Government have for the Commonwealth and the role that we feel it must play in our increasingly interconnected world. Similarly, I welcome the fact that the report emphasises the importance of achieving clear, tangible commitments at the summit, and of following up on these during our time as Chair-in-Office. I look to every the noble Lord who has participated in this debate and beyond to assist in the delivery of the outcomes and ambitions from the summit and the Heads of Government meeting, because our Chair-in-Office will be defined by how we co-operate and work together.

As I said earlier, we want the summit to be a truly national celebration of the Commonwealth. I assure noble Lords that I have been working directly with the devolved Administrations, having visited them, the overseas territories and Crown dependencies, which I know my noble friend Lady Hooper is concerned about. We will seek opportunities during the course of the week, involving the First Ministers of our devolved Administrations and the representatives of the overseas territories in various events during that week.

I also acknowledge the point well made by the noble Lord, Lord McConnell, that the Commonwealth is an incredible institution. We are looking forward to the Commonwealth Games very shortly and, indeed, to the next Commonwealth Games, from Brisbane to Birmingham. I am sure that all noble Lords will acknowledge that we will do our utmost to ensure that the Birmingham games are a success.

The noble Lord, Lord McConnell, raised the important issue, as did other noble Lords, of SDG 16, and the noble Baroness, Lady Tonge, raised the issue of SDG 5. As I am sure anyone knows who has had discussions with the Secretary-General of the Commonwealth, the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Scotland, she will reiterate and re-emphasise the point that it was the Commonwealth which was the first on SDGs. As was acknowledged by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, much of the agenda is reflective of those very important SDGs, and we remain committed to them. In that regard, I note the constructive comment from the noble Lord, Lord McConnell, that our websites should reflect similar language, and I shall take that back.

The noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, raised the issue of making progress on the SDGs through the Commonwealth Secretariat. I assure him that I will take the issue back with me, but, as ever, it will be an issue of capacity. I assure noble Lords that we are looking at how we can work more constructively with member states on the delivery of SDGs in the context of the Commonwealth.

The noble Lord, Lord McConnell, and my noble friend Lady Hooper raised the issue of Commonwealth scholarships. I assure noble Lords that education will be an important theme during summit week. As noble Lords are aware, the Government have already allocated £25 million for Commonwealth scholarship commissions for 2017 and 2018, which will provide for 802 new awards.

Many noble Lords alluded to the role of young people, and rightly so. I assure the noble Lords, Lord Geidt, Lord McConnell and Lord Luce, and the noble Baroness, Lady Prashar, among others, that we believe that the youth should be at the heart and soul of Commonwealth delivery. In response directly to a point that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised, it is also about those who are elders in the Commonwealth. I assure noble Lords that I have met, since our meeting with the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Sustainable Development Goals, directly with representatives of those representing the interests of the older generations across the Commonwealth to ensure that those important points, including the points about health, are not forgotten, as we plan not only for the summit but for our Chair-in-Office.

I assure the noble Lords, Lord Geidt and Lord Luce, among others, that we have worked very hard on ensuring that we incentivise and enthuse our own youngsters and youth in this regard.

The Commonwealth Youth Forum will take place at the start of the summit. It will give young people from across the Commonwealth the opportunity to debate the challenges facing them today, and agree youth-led initiatives to influence decision-makers and ensure that young people have a voice in the future of the Commonwealth. I emphasise the fact that the youth summit—the young people’s forum—is being organised by the members of the youth council themselves. Although I have waded into a few meetings, I assure noble Lords that the agenda is very much being set by them. There have been some challenging questions and answers. I have attended various events, including with my right honourable friend the Prime Minister at No. 10, where we invited various people from across the UK for a question and answer session and a meeting directly about what their ambitions and aspirations for the Commonwealth were. I am also delighted to say that each Commonwealth country attending the summit will have two members—one young woman and one young man—under 30 as official members of their delegation.

We have launched the Commonwealth education pack for schools across the UK to inform and explain the importance of the Commonwealth. It has already been shared with more than 40,000 teachers in the United Kingdom and can be accessed by schools across the world—and before any Welsh Peer asks me this, yes, the Government have paid to ensure that it is translated into Welsh.

The important issue of the education of women and girls was raised by several noble Lords, including my noble friend Lady Anelay. I pay tribute to her work in respect of the Commonwealth. As I have always said, she has been a teacher and a guide to me personally, when she was Chief Whip, during my time as a Whip. It was a great honour to take over from her in this role as Minister of State for the Commonwealth. I pay tribute to her work on this issue, but also to her continuing support on the important issues of the empowerment and education of women, and of LGBT rights. In this context, let me assure noble Lords that 12 years of quality education is something that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, Boris Johnson, has put at the heart and soul of British foreign policy. We have received strong support from other Commonwealth member states on ensuring that this will be reflected in the agenda of the Commonwealth summit and the Heads of Government Meeting.

I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Tonge, my noble friend Lady Hooper, and the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, for raising these issues. I also assure the noble Baroness, Lady Flather, and the noble Baroness, Lady Tonge, that it is right to mention the important role of women’s issues in this summit. The main vehicle for that will be the Women’s Forum—but the issue of women’s empowerment will not be limited to that forum alone. As the noble Lord, Lord Kakkar, said, it will be reflected across all aspects of the agenda, including the Business Forum and the Heads of Government Meeting.

My noble friend Lady Anelay asked some specific questions about Nigeria and girls’ education. Yes, as I have made clear, the summit is an opportunity to focus on girls’ education. About Nigeria, let me assure my noble friend that we have had three high-level conversations with Nigeria on girls’ education in the past four weeks alone. The Foreign Secretary spoke to the Nigerian Vice-President; Harriett Baldwin, the Minister for Africa, has spoken to the Nigerian High Commissioner; and my right honourable friend the International Development Secretary spoke to the Nigerian Minister for Women Affairs and Social Development. The Commonwealth was central to the discussion, as was girls’ education.

The issue of fairness is a key element and pillar of the Commonwealth discussions, and it has been raised by a number of noble Lords. The right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Rochester, the noble Lord, Lord Alton, my noble friends Lady Bottomley and Lord Suri, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, all raised the broad issue of human rights, but also specific issues within that context. First, on freedom of religion and belief, as with the previous summit in Malta in 2015, the Heads of the Commonwealth have recognised the freedom of religion and expression. The summit will encourage the Commonwealth to build on that. As noble Lords will know, the Government have also provided funding to the Royal Commonwealth Society’s inter-faith service, which was extremely well attended in Westminster Abbey on Commonwealth Day, 12 March. Freedom of religion and belief is a priority for the Prime Minister, for the Secretary-General and for me, as Minister for Human Rights. We will discuss this bilaterally and during the course of the Commonwealth summit through various forums. I also acknowledge the great work done by Lambeth Palace. We look forward to the event that is being organised on this issue in the margins of the Commonwealth summit during the course of the week. I pay particular tribute to the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury for his continuing support and leadership on this important issue.

LGBT rights were raised by several noble Lords, including the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Cashman, and my noble friends Lord Suri, Lady Anelay and Lord Lexden, among others. The Prime Minister has said clearly that we have special responsibility to help to change hearts and minds. We will ensure that these important issues are discussed during summit week. I have already said previously from the Dispatch Box that we also use bilateral meetings with different countries where criminalisation of homosexuality still persists. Most recently, when I visited the Gambia I raised this issue directly with its Law Minister.

The noble Lord, Lord Cashman, also asked about specific issues on the agenda during Commonwealth week. I assure him that the Government are committed to combating discrimination and violence against LGBT people throughout the Commonwealth. We will use every opportunity at the summit to highlight our belief in this central message. Indeed, the Prime Minister committed herself to raising this. In December I met representatives of the UK Alliance for Global Equality, which included representatives from the Kaleidoscope Trust among others, to discuss this agenda, in particular preparations for the summit. This was followed up by a roundtable with C10 and Foreign Office officials. This remains a priority. In this regard, I look forward to working with noble Lords when it is our Chair-In-Office to ensure we can work constructively on this issue, on freedom of religion and belief and on gender equality to ensure that these priorities, which I know are cross-party, are reflected.

The noble Lords, Lord Geidt and Lord Kakkar, and the noble Baroness, Lady Benjamin, raised various issues on health, as indeed did the noble Lord, Lord Collins. On attacking avoidable blindness, as I speak we are in the middle of the Committee of the Whole, which is looking specifically at the detail of the communiqué. It would be ill-judged of me to prejudge those comments because discussions will continue tomorrow on issues such as those mentioned by noble Lords, including malaria. I noted the passionate contribution of the noble Baroness, Lady Benjamin, on kidney transplants. Of course, the noble Lord, Lord Kakkar, spoke with great aplomb and great knowledge about the excellent work of the Diamond Jubilee Trust, among others, and the use of technology in addressing some of the pertinent health challenges. I say to noble Lords: here lies the opportunity. So much can be achieved through the network. I look forward to noble Lords working on this.

In closing—I apologise, but I will come back on specific questions I have not yet addressed—prosperity and trade were raised by the noble Lord, Lord Bruce, the noble Viscount, Lord Waverley, and my noble friend Lord Popat. This is a cornerstone of how we helped to deliver that Commonwealth advantage. We heard from noble Lords about the advantage and the lower costs of trading with Commonwealth countries. We need to look at those barriers.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, and others asked about specific issues such as the de-risking of banks in the Caribbean. I assure him that we are working constructively with Caribbean countries directly. There is a specific agenda item in the business forum on that very issue to discuss problems and practical solutions, so that we can help to facilitate greater trade between Commonwealth nations. I do not forget the important contributions from the noble Lords, Lord Purvis and Lord Dholakia, who said that this is ultimately the gateway to reducing poverty and contributing to a more secure, stable and prosperous world. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, before he asks me, that I look forward to reading his report and then meeting him to discuss how we can progress the various outcomes more constructively.

The noble Lord, Lord Judd, was right to raise the issue of sustainability and oceans. It will be a central theme. It is about cleaning up the oceans and looking at the opportunity they can provide for marine protection areas and the economic sustainability of countries around the Commonwealth. He also raised the issue of small island states and the importance of resilience and sustainability, which will be a key point of discussion.

The noble Lord, Lord Anderson, and my noble friend Lady Anelay rightly said that all these discussions have to result in actions. I assure noble Lords that we will continue to work very constructively in our role as Chair-In-Office to ensure that we can deliver on the outcomes. In that regard, there are some simple measures that I have already initiated. My noble friend may well appreciate this. For example, when I took on this role, there was no book—as I am sure she felt with Malta—to tell us where the good was and where the pitfalls were, what had been learnt and how to build capacity. We as a nation have that capacity and experience. Surely, we are duty bound to help whoever may take on this responsibility next. It sounds simple but it is a practical thing that we will take forward. We will work within the context of the Commonwealth. I say to noble Lords that there are huge opportunities to deliver on this within the context of the United Nations as well. We will continue to do so.

The noble Lord, Lord Anderson, and my noble friend Lord Suri also asked about the Commonwealth Secretariat and our support for the Secretary-General. I assure noble Lords—I have used this phrase before—that I work hand in glove with the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Scotland, who has faced challenges in trying to regenerate and revitalise the Commonwealth and make it a much more agile and reflective organisation for the 21st century. That concern was raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Prashar. We will deal with this so that we can look to the future of the Commonwealth with great optimism.

I have a final point about the future and the expansion of membership. The noble Lord, Lord Anderson, raised issues about Ireland. We heard from the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, about Nepal, South Sudan and other countries. I am delighted that Gambia has now joined, but as noble Lords will appreciate, this is a decision made on consensus. The fact that there are other countries interested in joining the Commonwealth perhaps underlines the importance attached to this issue.

I am conscious of the time and I do not want to detain noble Lords further. There are some specific questions that I have been unable to answer because of the limits on time and I will of course write to noble Lords in that respect. The Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting is a huge opportunity for us in the United Kingdom. But I was at the meeting of, as it is termed, the Sherpas—the workers who are putting together the communiqués and working hard across the Commonwealth nations to ensure that we can see progress. There was great enthusiasm and excitement about the summit and the Heads of Government Meeting. That underlines the prevailing attitude of working closely in partnership with member states as equals to ensure that we deliver on not only our ambition for the Commonwealth summit but the ambition of the Commonwealth itself.

Finally, it is a huge privilege for the UK Government to be hosting this special occasion at this time. On a personal level, it has been a huge and humbling privilege for me to hear the expressions of great warmth and support from noble Lords during this debate. But the summit is only the beginning. The hard work will start during our term in office. I thank all noble Lords for their support today and in the planning. I look forward to working with them constructively as we deliver on the ambitions and actions of the Commonwealth summit.

Motion agreed.

Commonwealth Summit: Human Rights

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 21st March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Berridge (Con)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I draw attention to my interests as outlined in the register.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, Commonwealth member states are meeting, as I speak, in London to negotiate the communiqué. While it would be inappropriate to comment on those negotiations or speculate on specific outcomes, the UK believes that the promotion and protection of human rights should be of central importance. Encouraging member states to uphold the values enshrined in the Commonwealth charter, which include democracy, freedom of expression, the rule of law, and opposition to all forms of discrimination, will be an important part of April’s summit.

[Baroness Berridge]

My Lords, on 28 February of last year the Prime Minister stated:

“We must reaffirm our determination to stand up for the freedom of people of all religions to practice their beliefs in peace and safety. And I hope to take further measures as a government to support this”.


That commitment, of course, is also outlined in the Commonwealth charter. While I am grateful for the Minister’s Answer, could he please provide details on how the Prime Minister’s commitment will be manifested in practical terms during the UK’s period of chair-in-office of the Commonwealth?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

First, I acknowledge the formidable work my noble friend does, along with other noble Lords across this House, in the area of freedom of religion and belief. It remains a key priority for Her Majesty’s Government to focus on freedom of religion and belief in the context of the Commonwealth summit. During the summit week, various fora will be held, including the Commonwealth People’s Forum, where civil society groups will have an opportunity to directly raise issues, including freedom of religion and belief, and there will be an opportunity for Foreign Ministers and leaders to hear about the outcomes of those fora. The UK will be chair-in-office for two years. I assure my noble friend that we have received various bids and we will certainly be focusing on all elements of human rights, including—

[Lord Chidgey (LD)]

My Lords—

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth (CB)]

My Lords—

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

If I may finish, including freedom of religion and belief.

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth]

I want to ask the Minister about two groups of people whose human rights are sadly violated. The first is LGBT people in many African countries, who are treated most shamefully, and the second is the Dalits and Adivasi or tribal peoples in India and other south Asian countries, who by every indicator are discriminated against most cruelly.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

On the latter group, I totally agree with the noble and right reverend Lord. We continue to raise these issues in the context of the Commonwealth but also bilaterally where those groups are discriminated against. On LGBT rights, I assure noble Lords that the Prime Minister herself has committed to raising issues around LGBT rights during Commonwealth Week. As I have also made clear on a number of occasions, we continue to raise these issues, particularly with those nations across the Commonwealth which still criminalise homosexuality. We continue to raise this both in the context of the Commonwealth and bilaterally.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

Does the Minister agree that the Commonwealth has been strong on declaration —Harare and the charter—but less strong in practice? For example, of the 58 countries in the world where capital punishment is legal, 36 are in the Commonwealth. The recent report of Open Doors shows that, of those 50 countries in the world where it is difficult to be a Christian, seven are in the Commonwealth. Is this a priority of the Government?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure the noble Lord that, on all issues of human rights and opposing the death penalty, the Government remain very clear and firm, including in the context of Commonwealth visits. For example, most recently I visited the Gambia and raised LGBT rights and the death penalty directly with the appropriate Ministers. We will continue to do so. I agree with the noble Lord that declarations from the Commonwealth are always strong but the actions have perhaps not delivered on those declarations. Together, working with the Secretary-General, it is our aim to revitalise and re-energise the Commonwealth.

[Lord Chidgey]

My Lords, the Commonwealth Human Rights Initiative’s latest report will be launched in London by the Secretary-General of the Commonwealth a week before the Commonwealth summit. The ambition is to make human rights, including modern slavery, a core concern of the summit by leading the international efforts to try to achieve this. I note the Minister has already pointed out that he cannot comment on the outcomes of the Committee of the Whole, currently meeting in London, but can he tell us whether he supports the work of the Human Rights Initiative and whether he will raise this issue with the Committee of the Whole to make sure that it does go forward into CHOGM?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

On the first point, yes I am committed to that. On the Committee of the Whole, the UK’s position, including on the broad spectrum of human rights, will be raised during the discussions, which, as I said, are taking place right now.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I welcome what the Minister said in relation to the fora, and the voices in the fora actually being heard by the leaders. But can we do more to ensure that voices on human rights are not simply the British Government’s but that we work with other allies, particularly in Africa? For example, we will have the new President of South Africa—and I have raised this point with the Minister before—who wrote the constitution of South Africa, ensuring that LGBT rights were guaranteed in the constitution. Can we not do more to ensure that other voices are heard?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord is of course quite right to remind me that he has raised this with me before. We have followed up on this, and I assure him that, although there is always more to do, we will continue to do so on LGBT rights, and more broadly across the human rights spectrum.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend Lady Berridge is quite right to focus on the promotion of human rights, as are the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, and the noble Lord, Lord Chidgey. But can we make sure that promotion is done more by example than by lecturing—let alone by hectoring—which does not achieve the results we want at all? My noble friend has played a leading part in this forthcoming summit, which is full of opportunities. Would he not agree that prosperity and security are the best gifts we can contribute to the gigantic Commonwealth system across the world? In return, they can contribute to our welfare and our finding a role in the world.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord speaks from vast experience in this respect, and I agree with him. I would add that we can learn from the valuable experience of all 53 nations. The approach of Her Majesty’s Government, and indeed mine as a Minister on human rights, has never been one of pointing fingers. It is about learning from experience. Our own journey on gender equality, LGBT rights and the broader spectrum of human rights has been one where we have learned from example and through sharing experiences, whether we do it with other countries or countries do it with us. That is the value of the Commonwealth network.

Syria

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 20th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the changing situation in Syria.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we welcome the progress made in the fight against Daesh, including the liberation of Raqqa. However, the Syrian crisis is far from resolved; violence continues and the humanitarian situation remains dire. Eastern Ghouta, besieged by the regime, is a particularly tragic example. A political settlement remains the only solution to bring sustainable peace to Syria and we support the UN Geneva process. All parties must work constructively towards a political agreement.

[Lord Roberts of Llandudno (LD)]

I thank the Minister. This is not, as Neville Chamberlain said of somewhere else,

“a faraway country of which we know very little”.

In the past week, 237 people have been killed in Syria, 37 of whom were children. Over 10,000 were killed last year and nearly 3,000 of those were children. At the same time, some of the national and international agencies have been forced to withdraw, having given so much help to alleviate this terrible catastrophe. I make special mention of the White Helmets, who have done great work. Is it not time that the Dubs amendment—originally covering 3,000 children, with the number reduced to 480—should be restored to its original total of 3,000? We cannot turn our backs. These are people in the worst humanitarian crisis since the war. I ask the Minister: will he press somehow to restore 3,000 as the aim for accommodating and welcoming these children?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord about the situation in Syria, although I do not agree that it is something that we know little about. Tragically, we know a great deal about it because of the things that we see every day in the media—the unfolding crisis and the continuing suffering of the Syrian people. Over 400,000 people, including many children, have now died. As I am sure the noble Lord will be aware, we have established the vulnerable children’s resettlement scheme, which will settle up to 3,000 at-risk children and their families by 2020. In terms of overall resettlement, by December 2017 a total of 10,538 people had been resettled under the vulnerable persons resettlement scheme since it began in 2014 and a total of 570 people had been resettled through the vulnerable children’s resettlement scheme since it began in 2016.

[Lord Watts (Lab)]

My Lords, the Government’s position was that they would never deal with Assad and that they want to see him removed as part of any deal. Given that that is not going to happen, will the Government change their position as far as Assad is concerned?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The Government’s position is very clear. We do not believe that the Assad regime, or indeed Assad himself, can be involved in the future of Syria, and we have said that it is for the Syrian people to choose a transition arrangement. We are imploring all parties, including the Russians, the Iranians and all those who have influence over the Assad regime, to move forward so that a peaceful transition can be reached. In terms of dealing directly with the Assad regime, our position does not change: we do not believe that there is a future for Syria with the Assad regime in place.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, no one would disagree with the noble Lord’s sentiments about the need for a peace settlement involving all parties. We have recently seen Turkish forces in Afrin and it is possible that they are moving on to other towns where the US has military bases. We could be facing a scenario where two NATO allies are supporting different sides in a conflict and exacerbating the situation. What role are we playing in NATO and the UN in trying at least to bring our allies together, rather than just opponents?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure the noble Lord that we are following very closely the developments in Afrin and in the wider northern and western Syrian provinces. We call repeatedly for de-escalation and for the protection of civilians. We are using our good offices through NATO and the UN and through bilateral exchanges directly with the Turkish Administration to call for that very de-escalation.

[The Lord Bishop of Winchester]

My Lords, will the Minister give an assurance that in the provision of humanitarian aid to those displaced in this conflict the Department for International Development’s understanding of vulnerability includes religious persecution? Will he also give an assurance that the Government will continue to ensure that the UNHCR’s procedures and criteria for determining refugee status recognise religious persecution as a distinct category?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The Government are very cognisant of religious persecution in Syria and Iraq. Indeed, I returned from Iraq only a couple of weeks ago. I visited Mosul and met directly with Christian representatives as well as those of the Yazidi community and heard first hand about the heinous crimes that have been committed against young women and children. I assure the right reverend Prelate that all forms of persecution against all people throughout Syria and Iraq are taken into account, and those issues are fully considered by all agencies, including the UNHCR.

[Lord Hylton (CB)]

My Lords, will the Government call for the withdrawal of all foreign forces, together with foreign fighters, from Syria? Is this not absolutely necessary to enable the Syrian people to decide their own future?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Indeed. The commitment of Her Majesty’s Government to the Geneva process includes exactly that call for all foreign forces to be withdrawn. Ultimately, we all wish to see a political settlement in Syria where the people themselves choose their leadership.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

What assessment have the Government made for the Geneva peace process—to which the Minister referred—in the light of the sacking of Tillerson and the appointment of Pompeo in the United States, and the re-election of Putin? Does he think that this will makes things easier or more dangerous?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The election of President Putin was a matter for the Russian people, and the selection of Cabinet members in the US Administration is very much a matter for the President of the United States. We believe that it is important for all members of the Security Council—particularly its permanent members—to be committed to the Geneva process, and to other processes. Indeed, the Astana process, which Russia has been overseeing with Turkey and Iran, should also feed in to ensuring the peace settlement we all desire.

Foreign Policy: Parliamentary Participation

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 19th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[Viscount Waverley]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what consideration they have given to Parliament being offered a more meaningful participation in foreign policy, including by restricting the extent of the royal prerogative.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the FCO attaches great importance to engaging with Parliament on foreign policy issues through Statements, Questions, debates, evidence to Select Committees and, indeed, informal discussion. The Government observe the convention that there is a debate in Parliament before UK military action is taken except where there is an emergency and such action would not be appropriate. In relation to treaty-making, the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010 requires treaties to be laid before Parliament before ratification.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

I thank the Minister for that response. With many more issues and challenges on the global stage than current mechanisms can properly undertake, would the Government, including a diminished Foreign Office, keep an open mind and encourage the Foreign Affairs Select Committee and the International Relations Committee to jointly consider revamping foreign policy decision-making processes, with necessary discretions factored in, knowing that the combined wisdom and shared responsibilities of Parliament as a whole should be made better use of by assisting in the creation of visionary policies and addressing the multiple challenges, including our country’s position in and future contribution to tomorrow’s world?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, it is the Foreign and Commonwealth Office. Far from it being diminished, the fact that I have used the word “Commonwealth” underlines the importance of the broad nature of its foreign and Commonwealth responsibilities. We look forward, as I am sure does the noble Viscount and the rest of the House, to welcoming leaders from across the 52 nations of the Commonwealth—the 53rd of course being the United Kingdom—in the next few weeks. As for parliamentary contributions, I alluded in my original Answer to the importance the Government attach to parliamentary debates, and I respect the wisdom of Parliament in that regard. I draw to the noble Viscount’s attention that only this morning, in my capacity as the Prime Minister’s special representative on preventing sexual violence, we had a very good engagement on that issue with many different voices. I am delighted to report back with my noble friend Lady Hodgson, who leads the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Women, Peace and Security, and my noble friend Lady Nicholson, who leads the All-Party Parliamentary Group on the Prevention of Sexual Violence in Conflict. I believe the Government work constructively with all parliamentarians on the issues that matter in foreign policy.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, has the Minister seen the Foreign Affairs Select Committee’s recent report entitled Global Britain, which asks the FCO to produce a,

“coherent strategic direction, supported by adequate resources”,

and notes that resources are now being moved from embassies in fast-growing Asia to Europe? Given the decisions about going to war or even leaving major trading blocs, would it not be wise to include Parliament far more in working out a foreign policy that is multilateral and realistic?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I have of course seen the report from the Foreign Affairs Committee. Having been before the committee on three occasions over the last month, I was asked about Britain’s position in the global world. Look at our leadership in the area of development—at how we are working hand-in-glove with Commonwealth countries on preventing sexual violence and ensuring reforms in the United Nations. Our membership of NATO underlines Britain’s global position in the world. Of course we will continue to work with parliamentarians. I say to all colleagues across your Lordships’ House and in the other place that it is on all of us to ensure that the voice of global Britain is heard in all corners across the world.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that post-Brexit it will be even more important that parliamentarians are encouraged to build relationships with their counterparts in EU countries? To that end, does he agree that the parliamentary scheme should be such that it does not disadvantage parliamentarians who participate in it, so it should be put on a par with the emoluments for those who go to international parliamentary conferences?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I am sure all those who are involved with the various committees and bodies will listen carefully to the noble Lord’s suggestion. From the Government’s perspective, I reiterate that we have bolstered many of our positions in European capitals in preparedness for the post-Brexit world. As for parliamentary support, I am sure that the extra support within our different missions across Europe will also assist. If I may say so as Minister for the UN, we are also adding to our support in our missions in New York and in Geneva, which will also assist parliamentary colleagues when they visit those offices.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, something of great concern to many noble Lords is the EU withdrawal Bill going through the House, which represents the biggest power grab by the Executive. This Question relates to Parliament and its right to scrutinise legislation. The Minister may not have heard it, but last week at 2.30 in the morning I moved an amendment. It was a shame it was so late, but I had a good audience on his side. That amendment sought to empower Parliament to do its job to scrutinise international treaties. Will the Minister ensure that he is present at 2.30 tomorrow morning when we debate these issues to ensure that Parliament can keep its power to scrutinise?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I would not be as brave as the noble Lord and predict how long Parliament will sit tomorrow but, as he conceded, on the government side, we listen carefully to his words, as was demonstrated only last week.

In terms of ensuring parliamentary scrutiny, this is about taking back control and ensuring that every piece of legislation is scrutinised by Parliament. Indeed, when we discussed the EU sanctions Bill, I responded positively, I hope, on ensuring the affirmative nature of secondary legislation. As for parliamentary scrutiny of the EU withdrawal Bill specifically, look at the number of hours it was debated in the House of Commons. I turn to my noble friend who sits not too distant from me to consider the hours he and his team and other noble friends on the Front Bench are spending on this issue. I am sure the noble Lord would acknowledge that the Government are ensuring that there is full scrutiny of all legislation, including the EU withdrawal Bill.

[Lord Grabiner (CB)]

Reverting to the form of the Question from the noble Viscount, Lord Waverley, is it not an established constitutional convention that where legislation trespasses into the territory of the royal prerogative, the royal prerogative simply falls away? If that is right, it is not an exercise in making fresh legislation to determine when, how and why the royal prerogative should have status in any particular context; it is simply a question of whether the new legislation traverses the territory of the royal prerogative. Does the Minister agree?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The issue of the royal prerogative is well understood. EU legislation is currently scrutinised by different committees within Parliament but, as I alluded to in my Answer, where the UK is directly a party to a particular treaty, the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010 requires treaties to be laid before Parliament, which includes their scrutiny, before ratification.

Saudi Arabia

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 7th March 2018 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House I would like to repeat the Answer given by my right honourable friend the Minister for the Middle East in response to an Urgent Question asked in the other place today. The Answer is as follows:

“I have been asked to respond on behalf of the Foreign Secretary as he is currently at an engagement at the Palace.

The Prime Minister has invited the Crown Prince of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, His Royal Highness Mohammad bin Salman, to visit the United Kingdom. We are delighted to welcome him and his delegation on his first official visit to the UK, taking place from today until Friday.

During the visit the Prime Minister and the Crown Prince will launch a new and ambitious strategic partnership between our two countries, which will allow us to discuss a range of bilateral matters and foreign policy issues of mutual interest.

The UK Government have a close and wide-ranging relationship with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Saudi Arabia is the UK’s third-fastest growing market for exports, and we continue to work together to address regional and international issues, including Yemen.

The visit will allow for a substantive discussion between the Crown Prince and the Prime Minister on the need for a political resolution to the conflict in Yemen, and how to address the humanitarian crisis.

The United Kingdom fully supports the Crown Prince’s social and economic reform programme, Vision 2030. His visit is an opportunity for him to underline his vision of an outward-looking Saudi Arabia, one that embraces a moderate and tolerant form of Islam and a more inclusive Saudi society. This includes greater freedom for women, in line with the recent statements and reforms made by the Crown Prince.

We believe these reforms are the best course for Saudi Arabia’s future security, stability and prosperity, and it is right that the UK supports the Crown Prince in his Vision 2030 endeavours”.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for repeating that response to the Urgent Question. There is no doubt that we need a good diplomatic and economic relationship with Saudi Arabia. But as in any good relationship, we must have honesty. I fear that the United Kingdom’s protests against serious human rights abuses in Saudi Arabia are so subtle that they are clearly not being heard. In the eight months since he became Crown Prince we have seen the number of executions in Saudi Arabia double. We, like the Prince, who was rightly enraged at the Houthi rebels’ missile attack on Riyadh in December, condemned that attack. But the response from the Saudis was a 10-day barrage of indiscriminate air strikes on civilian areas, killing and injuring hundreds, including dozens of children.

In July last year, the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury said,

“the depth of our relationship with Saudi Arabia in trade and finance … would indicate that we have the options for significantly more leverage than mere condemnation”.—[Official Report, 18/7/17; col. 1523.]

Like the most reverend Primate I wonder what other measures the Government are taking which involve action as well as condemnation.

The Government talk about the peace process in Yemen. What has happened to the United Nations resolution that we drafted, with which the Saudis refuse to co-operate? Will the Minister tonight pledge that we will, as a pen holder on Yemen, demand at the United Nations an immediate ceasefire, proper peace talks and a permanent end to this dreadful war?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, as the noble Lord is aware, reforms have been initiated by His Royal Highness the Crown Prince. He is right to raise the important issue of human rights. On the issue of Yemen, we will continue to push for a political settlement with all the influence we have, both through international forums and directly and bilaterally with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. On the general issue of human rights, we should look at the record of the Crown Prince. While there are, of course, many areas still to focus on, we must look at the starting point. Some of the announcements that have been made on issues of greater gender equality may, from our perspective, seem like a small step forward. But if we look at the recent history of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia the reforms we have seen on women’s rights in particular, both in terms of driving and attending sports events, are a positive step forward.

Another area of reform on which I have been encouraged is greater expression and freedom of religion and belief. As the noble Lord may be aware, on the Crown Prince’s visit to the United Kingdom he stopped in Egypt. Another area we have often discussed at the Dispatch Box is the plight of Coptic Christians in Egypt, and I was heartened that during the Crown Prince’s visit he visited the Pope of the Coptic Church and actually did so in the cathedral. We believe these are positive steps forward, especially if looked at through the lens of Saudi society. We will therefore continue to work on a strong bilateral basis to ensure that many of the issues the noble Lord and I have discussed before will continue to be raised, including the important issue of human rights. Because of our relationship with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia I believe we will be able to see further movement in that respect.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, I recognise that our leaving the European Union makes Saudi Arabia even more important as a partner than it has been up to now, and also more important as an export market. However, can we have an assurance, first, that the closeness of our military relationship will not either implicate us in what is happening in Yemen or prevent us from making the necessary criticisms of the mistakes that the Saudis appear to be making there? Secondly, since many wealthy Saudis and members of the royal family have homes and investments in Britain, can we have an assurance that in the fight against corruption we will assist with transparency and that, when it comes to the likely applications for asylum in Britain from some of those who have fallen out, they are taken one by one and fairly? I appreciate that that is a very delicate area. Lastly, will the Minister tell us how we will help with the process of social reform? We have all learned that revolution is much worse than evolution. If the Saudis are just starting on a very long and painful process of evolution, how are we going to assist in that?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I thank the noble Lord. He will know from his own experience at the Foreign Office that the relationship is important, as he has rightly articulated. We will continue, on a bilateral basis, to implore reform upon the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, primarily through the drive we have seen from His Royal Highness with some of the reforms he has brought forward such as those on business relations. He raised the important issue of defence. I can give him the reassurance that our defence relationship and any contracts in that respect are subject to the strictest criteria in making those assessments, and those continue to be looked at on a case-by-case basis. He is right to say that the process of reform within the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia is very slow and challenging, but through Saudi Vision 2030, which sets out a broad agenda for social reform and greater equality for women, we will continue to support the efforts of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia and His Royal Highness in this respect.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

Perhaps the Minister could reply to two questions on Yemen. First, what is the duration of the lifting of the blockade on humanitarian supplies by Saudi Arabia—which was very welcome when it came—and do we believe that the humanitarian supplies are really getting through now and that the blockade is not inhibiting them in any way? Secondly, does he not see the force of the request made by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that we reactivate things in the Security Council? The peace process in Yemen is pretty moribund and it needs a new breath of life. If we really are leading the drafting on this in the Security Council, surely we should start some work on it now, not sit there with the pen paralysed in our hands.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Taking the noble Lord’s second question first, it is not about being paralysed with a pen in the hand, but as the pen holder of course we take our responsibility seriously. It is also important, as we see the reform agenda in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, to use our bilateral relationship to get the political solution in Yemen that we all desire. In answer to his first question, a positive stance has been taken by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. Indeed, as the noble Lord will know, in Yemen both the ports of Hudaydah and Saleef have been opened. Since 20 December 2017, when the blockade was lifted, there have been 53 visits by different vessels, of which 32 have delivered food and 23 have delivered fuel. But I also acknowledge that when you look at the challenges in Yemen—I was looking at the background to this—21 million people in Yemen need aid. That is 76% of the population. This is very much just the beginning and we will continue to work with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia to ensure that the traction we have seen—the visits that have been made by different vessels—continues to focus on bringing relief and aid to those 21 million people.

[Baroness Manzoor (Con)]

I welcome the visit of the delegation from Saudi Arabia and I hope it is successful, for both the UK and Saudi Arabia. I also welcome the reforms that are taking place in Saudi Arabia. We must not forget that Saudi Arabia is a new country and is only 50 years or so into its development. Therefore, the changes that have been made are quite significant. Social reform—the 2030 vision—is really important. Can my noble friend the Minister say how the UK will help support that reform to go at a much faster pace than it currently is?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I think we have seen the reforms. My noble friend is quite right to raise that. I have already alluded to the fact that we have seen a beginning—and it is a beginning—of addressing some of the issues of gender equality, such as women driving or women attending sporting events. Tomorrow is International Women’s Day and I understand that the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia will officially mark it for the first time. There is a long road still ahead but cinemas are also opening in Saudi Arabia—I believe Vue is opening 30 cinemas. These are small steps but we should continue to give encouragement across the piece.

ISIS: Trial of British Citizens

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 28th February 2018 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they are taking measures to ensure that British ISIS members captured overseas are tried for crimes against humanity, war crimes and genocide; if so, what steps they are taking; whether those individuals will be tried in Britain; and where British citizens who have had their citizenship revoked will be tried.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we are clear that there must be accountability for Daesh’s crimes in individual cases of Daesh members captured overseas. Foreign fighters should be brought to justice in accordance with legal due process, regardless of their nationality, where there is evidence that crimes have been committed. The decision on the appropriate process will depend on the individual circumstances.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply, but does the accountability that he has just referred to extend to support by the Government for the creation of a special regional tribunal to hold to account those responsible both within ISIS and in the regime in Syria for genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes? Does he agree that execution without trial or the shipping of UK citizens to other national jurisdictions are no substitute for the prized rule of law and that the Nuremberg principles and the Geneva and Hague conventions will be rendered worthless unless those who have inflicted mass murder and appalling suffering are prosecuted and brought to justice? Does he also agree that a failure to do so will merely embolden others to believe that they can carry out atrocities with sheer impunity?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble Lord will be aware that in September last year the United Kingdom Government, along with other members of the Security Council, drove the issue of Daesh accountability. I am sure we were very pleased to see the passing of Resolution 2379, which is focused on ensuring that, as peace prevails in Iraq, evidence is gathered and the perpetrators of these crimes are brought to justice, exactly as the noble Lord said. On his broader point about ensuring that justice is brought to bear on those who have committed crimes, I assure noble Lords that we expect everyone, including foreign fighters and those holding British nationality who are captured in either Iraq or Syria, to be treated in accordance with international humanitarian law. As the noble Lord will know, that includes ensuring that they have the correct legal representation by those who speak their language, among other conditions.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, the noble Lord’s Question refers to some very dangerous individuals who could cause considerable harm if they were allowed to return to this country freely. The problem is surely finding adequate evidence that will stand up in a court of law. Therefore, are the Government now providing, and are they prepared to provide in the future, funds to third-party organisations to help them bring forward evidence of ICC crimes?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the noble Lord. The first duty of any Government is the security of their citizens, and I believe we all subscribe to that. On his second point, I referred to the Security Council resolution and he will be aware that the Government are also providing financial support in this regard, having already allocated £1 million for that purpose.

[Baroness Warsi (Con)]

My Lords, is my noble friend aware of the case of Jack Letts, a British-Canadian national who travelled to areas under the control of Daesh in 2014? In 2017 he was captured by the YPG, the Kurdish People’s Protection Units. I am sure that my noble friend will say that we do not have consular support in Syria. I recognise that, but we have regular contact with the YPG. In the light of the sentiments that he expressed and the Question raised by the noble Lord, Lord Alton, can he let the House know whether the British Government have made any contact with Jack Letts and, if not, why not?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, first of all, my noble friend will be fully aware that the key advice we have given in all respects to anyone seeking to travel to the area is not to do so because they then open themselves up to great danger. She is correct to say that the UK does not have a consular presence in Syria and cannot provide support to British nationals in Syria in this regard. On the specific case that she raises, I will certainly write to her to make it clear that whatever contact and support we can provide, we have. However, as has been talked through by respective Ministers across both Houses, the general and important point is: in both Syria and, to a lesser degree, Iraq, the key advice has always been not to travel to that area because the Government cannot provide consular assistance until we have assistance on the ground.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, of the two British men who have been accused of committing crimes on behalf of ISIS, the Defence Secretary says that no way should they come back to the United Kingdom to face trial. The Home Secretary is less certain. We have even had a former Minister say that people should be shot for their crimes if they are in a warzone. Surely the Minister can take the Government’s responsibility seriously. The line he is giving us this afternoon is the correct one. These people must be held to account and put to trial, and upholding the rule of law must be our vital concern.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, it is not just the line that I have been given, it is the line that I believe in as the Minister with responsibility for human rights. We must hold people to account but, at the same time, in parallel, ensure that international humanitarian law is upheld.

[Lord Thomas of Gresford (LD)]

The Minister will be aware that there is jurisdiction under the International Criminal Court Act 2001 to try war crimes in this country for British nationals, but it has so far been used only against British soldiers. Is there any reason why it should not be used against British nationals who have formed part of ISIS?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

On the issue of the process that would be used, as I said, the underlying principle and approach that the Government have taken is to ensure that whoever is tried, and wherever they are tried, it is done so according to the principles of international humanitarian law. All pathways in that regard will be considered.