Journalists Detained or Killed Overseas

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 13th November 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

As the noble Lord knows, I believe that we have answered questions on Jimmy Lai very recently, but we continue to raise these cases at ministerial level with the relevant Governments, and we remain deeply concerned that we have been unable to gain the access that we would wish.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness for her Question. We in the previous Government were very much focused on this; can the Minister reassure us about the focus of this Government on media freedom globally and the international alliance that the previous Government set up with Canada? Secondly, the previous Government were exploring the issue of compensation. She may recall that, back in 2014 under the leadership of my noble friend Lord Cameron, we set up a compensation fund for victims of terrorism abroad. Efforts were made to see whether we could also look at extending the scope of that fund, which—from memory—sits with the Ministry of Justice.

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

In thanking the noble Lord, I note that sometimes, where there is a change of power in our democracy, former Ministers take with them different things; the noble Lord takes with him a desire to make sure that the torch is received by the incoming Government and that we will carry on doing the work that he initiated. We respect that. I will consider the points he makes about compensation; as he rightly says, that may well lie in other departments, but he was right to raise them.

China: Human Rights and Sanctions

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 29th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

My Lords, I must disagree with my noble friend on his assertions and the tone in which he put his question. My right honourable friend David Lammy, the Foreign Secretary, went to China because he wanted to raise these issues. Unless we engage with China, we do not get the opportunity to raise these issues. He raised the case of Jimmy Lai. He has called for Jimmy Lai to be released, as well he should. This is consistent with his position in opposition. He has gone further and made sure that every Minister in their engagement with China continues to raise on every occasion the case of Jimmy Lai. He should be released.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom consistently led on the situation of the Uighurs in Xinjiang. Last year, at the UN Third Committee and subsequently at the Human Rights Council, 51 member states, led by the United Kingdom, signed a statement. I note with some degree of disappointment that there was a statement presented this year at the same forum, where only 16 countries, the United Kingdom included, came behind an Australian- led permanent representative statement. What action will the Government take to continue to ensure the UK’s leadership on this important issue?

South Asia: Minority Faith Communities

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 28th October 2024 Lords Chamber

Asked by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the situation of minority faith communities across South Asia, and the role of the United Kingdom in safeguarding the freedom of religion and belief in that area.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I rise to bring to the House’s attention the extremely pressing issue of the treatment of religious minorities across south Asia. I am grateful to all noble Lords who are speaking in this important debate this evening.

Despite the region’s rich diversity, tapestry of faiths and historical commitment to pluralism, religious minorities often face discrimination, persecution and unequal treatment, and are regarded by many as marginalised citizens. The challenges they face are immense, from social exclusion and legal inequalities to violent attacks and, tragically, murder. This threatens not only individuals’ rights but the very fabric of these societies and their ability to go about their daily lives.

I recall the words of the founder of Pakistan, Quaid-e-Azam, as he was known, Muhammad Ali Jinnah, in his historic speech on 11 August 1947. As Pakistan was established, a new dawn was heralded, and he said:

“You are free; you are free to go to your temples, you are free to go to your mosques or to any other place of worship in this State of Pakistan … we are all … equal citizens”.


These powerful words embody the founding vision for a state where freedom of religion and equal citizenship were seen as fundamental principles. Mr Jinnah’s message highlights the ideal of an inclusive society where freedom is not merely a privilege but a guaranteed right for all. Indeed, in the early days after Pakistan’s birth, we saw the esteemed jurist Sir Chaudry Zafarullah Khan, an Ahmadi Muslim, appointed as the first Foreign Minister of the county. Indeed, in 1960 Justice Cornelius—a Christian by faith—served as the Chief Justice of Pakistan for almost eight years.

Yet, despite these noble intentions laid down at the birth of the nation, the reality for many minority faiths, not just in Pakistan but across south Asia, tells a tragically different story.

First, on Pakistan, women and girls from religious minority communities, including Christians, Hindus and Hazaras, are disproportionately likely to experience gender-based violence. Indeed, the Human Rights Commission of Pakistan itself reported around 1,000 cases of forced marriages and abductions of religious minority girls in the province of Sindh in 2018.

I also draw to the particular attention of the House the plight of the Ahmadi Muslim community in Pakistan, of which I myself am a member, whose situation starkly illustrates the discrimination faced by religious minorities in the region. Ahmadis are effectively excluded from the democratic process. They are not permitted to vote or stand for Parliament unless they self-declare that they are not Muslim—what kind of constitutional choice is that for any citizen? The denial of political representation leaves them without any voice in the very system that is meant to protect their rights, and they are the only minority, unlike other minorities in Pakistan, who cannot vote for mainstream parties as part of the general electorate.

Since the introduction of discriminatory laws in 1984 under the then leader, General Zia, 277 Ahmadi Muslims have been murdered simply for their beliefs, and 220 mosques have been destroyed. Saying the simple greeting “Assalamo alaikum”, or “Peace be upon you”, used by one Muslim to another, results in a three-year prison sentence.

These actions against Ahmadis and the environment being created embolden extremists, who also target Christians and Hindus. The mob attacks on Christians in Punjab’s Jaranwala district in August 2023 were particularly vile, resulting in the torching of 25 churches. I was grateful to the then caretaker Foreign Minister of Pakistan, who acted to set up a compensation and support scheme for those targeted. Can the Minister say what the current situation is on compensation and accountability?

The previous Government took action on the egregious abuse of human rights—I was involved, and indeed acted on this—but this needs to be stepped up further. The human rights sanctions regime, which was set up in 2019, is there to ensure that we stop such extremists, stopping them from travel and freezing their bank accounts. This sends a very strong message to those who seek to discriminate against minority communities. Can the Minister update and confirm that the Government will continue to work with Members of your Lordships’ House and the other place to take this forward?

Briefly, on Bangladesh, the recent removal of former Prime Minister Sheikh Hasina from power has further exacerbated the ongoing violence and unrest in the country. Like the Tehreek-e-Labbaik in Pakistan, an extremist organisation being emboldened through the political system, we now see the rise of groups such as the Hefazat-e-Islam—which, ironically, means “The Protection of Islam”; its actions far from demonstrate that noble principle—which sees the deposing of the former Prime Minister, who, to her credit, resisted the call of extremist right religious groups, as free season to attack minorities. The political instability has led to an increase in targeted violence against religious minorities, who are often the first to suffer in times of upheaval.

The Hindu population in Bangladesh, a significant religious minority, has been facing an alarming rise in violence. It is worth noting that of course a majority of the Hindu population supported the former Prime Minister, whose removal has left them even more vulnerable to attacks. Other communities, including Ahmadis, are seeing their places of worship and mosques being targeted and calls from Hefazat-e-Islam for them to be banned.

Briefly on India, during my time in office as the Minister for Human Rights and South Asia, I regularly raised issues of the rights of minority faiths and communities, and we had a constructive dialogue with India. Let us not forget that the rights of minorities are safeguarded under law in India’s own constitution. Can the Minister update the House about the current situation, particularly in Manipur, following the communal tensions early this year, when tribal tensions manifested themselves in extremists trying again to use the religious divide?

Finally, I turn to the United Kingdom’s leadership on freedom of religion and belief. A brief bit of history: it was in 2018 that, working with many Members across your Lordships’ House and the other place, I presented a proposal for a Prime Minister’s envoy on freedom of religion or belief. Starting something from scratch in government is difficult, and I am grateful to the then DfID Secretary, Penny Mordaunt, for providing financial backing, for the strong support of Boris Johnson, the Foreign Secretary at that time, and to the then Prime Minister, now the noble Baroness, Lady May of Maidenhead. Indeed, the UK was recognised for its leadership in this regard. I was honoured to be appointed the first envoy in this respect in 2018, and more recently we have seen Fiona Bruce, the former MP for Congleton, so ably lead this agenda with immense passion and principle, as well as leading on the International FoRB Alliance. The United Kingdom also hosted the international FoRB conference in London in 2022.

I also highlight the significance of the global report of Bishop Philip of Truro, set up in 2019—he is now the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Winchester—and I praise the efforts of the then Foreign Secretary, now shadow Chancellor, Jeremy Hunt, which address specifically the issue of persecution of Christians and other minorities around the world.

In south Asian countries, Christians continue to experience widespread discrimination, legal restrictions, social marginalisation and violence. The rise of nationalist ambitions in south Asia has contributed to the perception of Christians and other minorities as a threat to societal cohesion, further marginalising these communities. I say again to the Minister that I hope that this issue is being prioritised in our engagements across south Asia.

In Sri Lanka, we witnessed a rise in attacks on both Christians and Muslims in 2017, including assaults on churches and acts of intimidation. Through the previous Government’s position of the special envoy, along with the valuable support of communities, parliamentarians—most notably the noble Lord, Lord Alton, who cannot join us this evening, and the honourable Member for Strangford, Jim Shannon MP—and diplomats from across the FCDO we led on this agenda. The UK took a strong position, working with the United States, our European neighbours and other nations. Ensuring the continuity of this important agenda under Prime Minister Starmer would not only expand the UK’s influence but provide much-needed relief to those seeking protection.

The Truro review highlighted the necessity of placing the special envoy’s role on a permanent footing. I hope that the Minister will update this House. There was a Private Member’s Bill in this respect, which passed all stages in the other place but, because of the election being called, could not be taken forward here.

I will finish—I recognise that cough very well, as I was a Whip once. I implore the Government: this is an important agenda, so please do not lose time in which to act. I have said repeatedly that, when we stand up for others, it is the greatest test of our own faith and belief.

St Helena: UK Immigration

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

The noble Lord rightly says that £6.65 million is a lot of money, but I point out that the previous Government were spending £50 million every year on housing those migrants on Diego Garcia. We think that that is not an appropriate place for them to be, and we are going to work to make sure that they are more appropriately dealt with.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the Minister that Diego Garcia is not an appropriate place to house migrants; indeed, there were returns of Sri Lankans to Sri Lanka. But under the agreement, if people arrive during the 18-month period, what happens to those who are rejected for asylum after the processing takes place on St Helena? Secondly, will those who are entitled to claim asylum in St Helena be granted the same entry rights that St Helena’s residents are to enter the United Kingdom?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

It is important to note that there would be no automatic right to entry rights or citizenship. It is for the Helenian Government to make a determination about anybody who arrives and facilitate their removal.

British Indian Ocean Territory: Negotiations

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 9th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I should probably have been clear about this earlier, but the detail will be in the treaty for noble Lords to see for themselves. The UK will be co-operating alongside Mauritius to make sure that the marine protected area is secure.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on rushing ministerial decisions, when I was first appointed to the Foreign Office in 2017, as the noble Lord, Lord McDonald, will recall, my first meeting was on BIOT, and what the previous Government did was careful consideration in negotiations with Mauritius about what was possible and what was not. And repeatedly it was concluded that the issue of sovereignty was a sticking point for security. My question is a simple one. We engaged at the very top at prime ministerial level on negotiations, so I ask the Minister, what level of negotiation took place before this key decision was taken?

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

A fair point. Discussions did take place between our Prime Minister and the Prime Minister in Mauritius.

Ethiopia and Somalia

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 7th October 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

As the noble Lord indicated, we are concerned about many aspects of the increase in tensions, including in Somalia, Eritrea and Egypt. We applaud the work of UN security forces so far; we want it to continue and will work to support it in any way that we can. The position of the Government more broadly is to support any form of dialogue that will de-escalate this, and to ease tensions through conversation.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, in the previous Government, I led on the issue of preventing sexual violence in conflict. Tigray has incredible and abhorrent stories of sexual violence. The previous Government dispatched a team to collect evidence and ensure that perpetrators are held to account, and I would welcome an update on that. I stress again the importance of appointing a special representative on preventing sexual violence in conflict; the United Kingdom led the world on this and I hope that the new Government continue in that respect.

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

I note the noble Lord’s support for a special representative on sexual violence. There will be announcements about that. He is absolutely right to raise the issues of Tigray and sexual violence, and of food insecurity in the region, which we are equally concerned about. All this gets resolved only through dialogue and de-escalation, and that is what the UK seeks to support.

Middle East Update

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd September 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

The noble Lord is completely right in what he says about international law. We will continue to work closely with our allies to promote international law in every area of policy. We are working as hard as we possibly can, alongside many others, most notably Qatar, to try to achieve negotiation, which is the only way ultimately that we will get to the ceasefire that we all so want to see.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I would like to develop that point. I think I speak for the whole House, and for anyone who has met with the hostage families, in recognising the nature of their pain and suffering, and likewise, as one of those who have visited the region, in recognising the suffering of the Palestinians in Gaza. Many innocent lives have been lost in this conflict, and the first casualty of war, as we know, is truth. In pursuit of peace, could the Minister update your Lordships’ House on the specifics of the negotiations that Qatar and Egypt have been conducting together with the United States? Ultimately, these are what are needed to deliver an end to this conflict. Also, for the medium and long-term security of Israel and the future state of Palestine, a solution must be worked in phases, starting with a ceasefire in Gaza.

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

The suggestion of an update on negotiations may well be helpful. It is not something that I am in a position to provide now; it is perhaps something worthy of a longer discussion when time allows. I will definitely convey that suggestion to my colleague, my noble friend Lord Collins, when he returns from his visit to Rwanda.

Ukraine

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd September 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

My Lords, noble Lords will be aware that we have made our commitment to 2.5%. A review of all departmental spending is happening and we all know the reasons for that, but our commitment to the support of Ukraine is steadfast and non-negotiable. We have committed £3 billion annually until 2030-31.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I first congratulate the noble Baroness and the Government on sustaining this strength. I also congratulate my noble friend on his portfolio. I assure the noble Baroness that this side of the House, together with all sides, as I found during my tenure, will stay strong and consistent and consolidated in our support for the Government’s position, which we welcome.

My focus is on two specific questions. One is on the progress made on preventing sexual violence in conflict, which we were working on with the first lady of Ukraine, Olena Zelenska. The other is on the worrying and continuing situation of close to 20,000 Ukrainian children who were abducted and taken to Russia. Qatar played an important role just before the summer break in returning some of them and I would welcome an update.

[Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)]

The issue of the Ukrainian children who were abducted is one of the most heart-rending situations imaginable and I thank the noble Lord for raising it. There will be further updates going forward but, for today, I will say that the UK has committed £357 million in humanitarian assistance to Ukraine and the region, as well as a further £242 million of bilateral funding for Ukraine announced at the G7 in June of this year to support immediate humanitarian energy and stabilisation needs and to lay the foundations for longer-term economic and social recovery and reconstruction.

I also thank the noble Lord for the work he did in government on this and many other issues. He is well respected across the House and is always very open and easy to deal with.

Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill [HL]

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

2nd reading
Monday 29th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, on her role. I recall debating many different issues, most notably the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill—which often went late into the night. The Chamber this evening is packed by comparison with what the noble Baroness and I endured well past the midnight hour.

I am sure the noble Baroness recognises the importance of the insights provided by your Lordships’ House’s during the passage of that Bill. We have seen that wisdom again today on issues of the Commonwealth. If I should dare to offer some advice after serving for 12 years continuously as a Government Minister, it would be that the wisdom and insights provided across your Lordships’ House are incredible. I often say to my children that, where they googled, I had a cup of tea or coffee with a noble Lord who had incredible insights into the workings of not just our nation but the world—and that is needed more than ever.

So, I wish the noble Baroness well—I mean that with absolute sincerity—and I wish the same to my dear friend and colleague over many years, the noble Lord, Lord Collins, in his endeavours. I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, for the many years when, as she rightly pointed out, we worked together on many different briefs.

On the issue of the Commonwealth, I note that the noble Baroness is also the Minister for the Caribbean and I know how vital the Commonwealth is. My noble friends Lord Howell and Lady Anelay will recognise that the Commonwealth is regarded most highly within the context of the Caribbean and I am sure the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, in her visits to the region will find how vital the work is of the Commonwealth but also notably of the CPA.

Saying all of that, it will come as no surprise that His Majesty’s Official Opposition fully support the Bill. I must say, when I saw that the Bill was coming forward, I was asked by the shadow Chief Whip whether I would be willing to take it and speak from the Front Benches. I had no hesitation because, as noble Lords have said, this is long overdue and I congratulate the Government on prioritising it. Indeed, I give it the warmest of welcomes. I will add a small caveat: perhaps I will not be so positive about every piece of Government legislation introduced in the coming Session. Nevertheless, this is an important way forward, particularly in the year where we will be marking His Majesty’s first official CHOGM in Samoa, which I will come to in a moment.

Before I go further, I also want to acknowledge, but also recognise and applaud, the incredible efforts of my dear friend Dame Maria Miller and, of course, Ian Liddell-Grainger. I remember the challenges that the Government were facing—several noble Lords have alluded to this—about the suggested move of the CPA to another country. It was during a particular break where constant calls were coming in. That is the life of a Minister; the phone never stops ringing. And by the way, when you leave your ministerial job, it is amazing how quickly it stops ringing. My children are wondering: who is this man who is now permanently positioned in our home, swimming shorts or not? They are in the paddling pool today as I speak.

One thing which is very notable is the consistent and persistent efforts of members of the CPA. Dame Maria Miller and Ian played a phenomenal role and I also add my immense thanks to the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza. She steered this Bill through many different issues and challenges. How would this Bill be presented? As my noble friend Lady Anelay asked, would it be a government Bill or a Private Member’s Bill? I cannot tell you the number of PBLs I had to sit through. I also pay tribute to the former Leader of the House of Commons, Penny Mordaunt, who did a sterling job in supporting and ensuring that the Government were behind the previous Private Member’s Bill.

I also add my thanks to Stephen Twigg, the secretary-general of the CPA, who has become a good friend, for his advocacy for this over many years. If I may, I also pay tribute to someone who is not with us today from the Liberal Democrat Benches: the late Lord Chidgey. I remember in the planning of the 28th CHOGM the role of the CPA and the importance of having parliamentarians involved directly within the context of the workings of CHOGMs. It was Lord Chidgey, along with a number of others, who said, “Let’s have that event as a precursor to the CHOGM itself”, and it allowed us to ensure that parliamentarians played a direct role in feeding into the work of the CHOGM as well—and I know my noble friend Lord Howell also played a key role in that respect.

That CHOGM is remembered well by me, and my noble friend Lord Udny-Lister may remember this. It was April 2018 and suddenly there was a three-line whip under the shortly-to-be Baroness May. I received a call, which no doubt he used to receive quite regularly as chief of staff to the Prime Minister who succeeded Prime Minister May, Boris Johnson, and it went as follows: “Tariq, matey, we’re on a three-line whip. You’re on your own; you’ll do a grand job”. I was receiving the heads of the Commonwealth at Lancaster House at that time—but again I say to the Minister, those are the challenges you have to face. And I pay tribute to the FCDO officials, some of whom are in the Box today and are well known to me, for the swan-like nature of how we go about doing British diplomacy. The cares and the intensity and the worry were immense but, in true British manner, we dealt with whatever challenge came our way.

That, again, is the importance of why the CPA needs to be part and parcel of the United Kingdom. I am delighted that this Bill does just that. The CPA is a unique part of the Commonwealth family, with 56 countries coming together and parliamentarians from all walks of life playing an incredible role. The extension of immunities and privileges, as has been said, is long overdue.

With CHOGM on the horizon, I look forward to the work of the Government. Samoa is working hard, but it needs the United Kingdom’s strong support—I know through the officials we were working with that, for both Rwanda and Samoa, whatever assistance is required the United Kingdom must step up and ensure that that happens, particularly in the presence of Their Majesties the King and the Queen. I know, absolutely irrespective of differing perspectives, that the new Government will stand fully in support of CHOGM, and I am delighted that we are supporting this aspect of privileges and immunities.

I turn briefly to the ICRC. It is a privilege to have worked very closely over many years with senior members of that team. My noble friend Lady Anelay mentioned Peter Maurer, who did an incredible job. My noble friend will recall the challenges Peter faced when the Russia-Ukraine conflict and Russia’s illegal war in Ukraine began. The work of the ICRC is crucial: it is a bridge, and its independence and impartiality are key to ensuring that precious link for negotiations and ensuring that access to prisoners is sustained. I am delighted that the noble Lord for the Ministry of Justice is on the Labour Front Bench, and I wish him well in his role. International access for the ICRC—in current conflicts within Gaza and Israel, for example, as well as in Ukraine—requires it to be fully supported.

I pay particular tribute to the current president, Mirjana Spoljaric Egger. I have sat with her several times and talked about the challenges that she faces directly and which her people face on the ground. It does require the privileges and immunities but, as the Minister in introducing the Bill mentioned, it requires those specific protections to ensure that the ICRC can go about its important work. It operates in 90-plus operational offices around the world, and engages with all sides, on the basis of neutrality, independence and impartiality. The ICRC, as we have heard, is the guardian of international humanitarian law. When we look at conflicts, we see that perhaps that guardianship is needed more than at any time that I can remember in the current age. Our support for the ICRC and its integration within the context of the Geneva conventions is vital, so that its unique role is fully recognised, as we were reminded of by several noble Lords in this important debate.

Within all that, confidentiality is key, so I welcome, as the noble Baroness, Lady D'Souza, mentioned, that the amendments to the previous Bill, which were tabled in the other place and taken forward here, are fully incorporated. This Bill carries our full support, and I wish it safe and swift passage. I look forward to working with the Government Front Bench on issues across foreign affairs, particularly on the Commonwealth.

The noble Baroness, Lady Northover, mentioned my children. I always say that I am a living, working product of the Commonwealth. My parents are of Indian heritage, and I am a born and bred Brit who married a woman from Australia whose parents are of Pakistani heritage—you can imagine the debates that we have on Kashmir. But I assure noble Lords that it works. Our children are, I feel, quite unique, and part of the identification that the CPA brings together of the Commonwealth family. They can choose between their Indian and Pakistani heritage, being true Brits—and I assure noble Lords that the little one, to whom the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, alluded, is a true Brit in every sense, whereas the two older ones like their Australian heritage as well. But that is the beauty of the Commonwealth, which the CPA fully encapsulates.

I wish this Bill well. Both institutions are well known to everyone, and their importance is incredible on the world stage today. I look forward to seeing this Bill become statute.

Global Combat Air Programme International Government Organisation (Immunities and Privileges) Order 2024

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 29th July 2024 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, I have an advantage—or disadvantage—on these Benches because, as often with debates on defence, there is nobody behind me on the Back Benches to say anything different from what I may be or had been planning to say.

As other noble Lords have, I welcome the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, to her place. I am speaking as the defence spokesperson for the Liberal Democrats, even though this SI is being brought forward via the FCDO, precisely because we felt that this is a critical defence issue. Obviously, the interplay of defence and foreign policy is vital.

I listened to much of the debate in the other place about the GCAP arrangements. I think that GCAP has the huge advantage that we can probably all pronounce it, as opposed to GIGO and its alternative pronunciations. I will focus on GCAP.

I had the huge benefit of listening to the passion right across the other place for this commitment to the trilateral relationship with Japan and Italy. Much of the discussion here has been about the relationship with Japan, which is clearly very important to the Japanese. Over the last couple of years, the Japanese embassy has been regularly coming to Liberal Democrat conferences. Before other embassies remembered that we existed, the Japanese ambassador and his colleagues were coming to talk to us. The bilateral relationship with Japan and the relationship on this specifically are hugely important. Last week, the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, was keen to reiterate the commitment of His Majesty’s Government to GCAP, which was very reassuring to your Lordships’ House.

Today, we are obviously supposed to be focusing on the statutory instrument. I have a couple of very specific questions I want to raise. I note that there is no impact assessment, and the reason given for that is that no impact, or no significant impact, is foreseen on the private, voluntary or public sectors in the UK. I wonder why not. What would count as significant? Surely one of the benefits of the Tempest programme is precisely that it is intended to have a significant impact on our defence capability. Presumably, this is simply the language of a statutory instrument.

In particular, it was noted that there would not be a significant impact on small businesses or micro-businesses. I raised this in the humble Address debate last week, with the noble Lord, Lord Coaker. The question was about the role of small and medium-sized enterprises. Clearly, if this is about defence investment and defence research and development, there is a potentially significant role for small, medium and even micro-businesses in the United Kingdom. What do His Majesty’s Government think are the possibilities for those small businesses and micro-businesses?

I declare an interest—not, unlike other noble Lords, an Anglo-Japanese interest—as I am a trustee of the Armed Forces Parliamentary Trust, which organises the Armed Forces Parliamentary Scheme. It is essentially funded by the defence industries and, given that some of the primes were mentioned by the Minister, I thought I should reflect that as a declaration of interest, although I do not benefit personally.

In addition to wanting a better understanding of the impact on our defence industrial base, I also want to ask a few questions related to those from the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, on the Labour Back Benches. This is not because I disagree in any way with the proposals here, but in order to get a little more information. Whether somebody was trying to tease the United Kingdom Government in drafting this convention, I am not sure. If we ever wanted to rejoin the European Union, we would be doing so under Article 49. It would appear that, if any country is looking to sign up to this convention, it is under Article 49. There are some provisions under Article 48 and 49 looking at the possibility of expansion. What is His Majesty’s Government’s thinking about the possibility of expansion? The wording seems to be slightly vague at the moment. It is down to the steering committee of the GIGO to decide whether other countries can discuss possible membership. If a third-party country decided it wished to join, would that have to come to the United Kingdom Parliament to be ratified, or is it down to the steering committee, which would not appear to be right? A greater understanding about that would be welcome.

Similarly, under Article 50, about defence exports, what are the mechanisms likely to be if one of the current parties has an arms export ban to a certain country? How is that going to work in terms of dealing with the GCAP?

Finally, there does not appear to be any provision for regular reporting, other than back to the MoD and the FCDO. Will there be a way for Parliament to be updated on these arrangements? These are very much by way of probing questions and not in any way speaking against the statutory instrument and the convention, which are most welcome.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I begin by saying that we fully support the measures before us. As the Minister said in her introductory remarks, it is necessary to deliver the appropriate instrument into law, but it is also about ensuring that UK military capability in the crucial area of air combat is ready. We do so with two great partners, Italy and Japan. Of course, we should not forget that Japan has challenges in its part of the world that many other countries do not face, not least the challenge posed by Russia.

Since the trilateral in September 2023, this project has already achieved significant goals, not least the signing of the international treaty last December that we are legislating for today. This is welcome.

The treaty establishes the legal basis for GIGO—and we need that abbreviation, otherwise we would be repeating “GCAP International Government Organisation” several times, which would extend any debate. The fact that the international headquarters of GIGO will be in the UK is in keeping with the spirit of equal partnership and underpins the importance of GCAP. The first chief executives of the GCAP agency and joint venture are from Italy and Japan—again, that underlines the important collaboration.

As such, the SI before us enables this international treaty to enter into effect, with important measures, as was said in the introduction, on immunity and privileges that are necessary for the effective operation of the GIGO. This SI is necessary to deliver GCAP’s governance arrangements, but in itself will not deliver a single aircraft. Therefore, it is important that we back GCAP to the hilt; the GCAP programme needs to be wholeheartedly supported, with the appropriate funding necessary to deliver our sixth-generation fighter capability.

As Parliament approves this SI, we welcome the remarks of the Minister, and those of the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, recently as well, about the Government’s support for GCAP. There has been a lot of speculation and it is important that that speculation is put to rest with wholehearted backing for GCAP. That was consistent across both the new Government and the previous Government during the election. I am sure the Minister will agree that clarity from government is important for Parliament, industry and our international partners. As we approach this SI, it is important that our commitment to GCAP is clear.

I assure the Minister that from these Benches His Majesty’s Official Opposition are clear that we support the SI on the basis that we are supporting GCAP as a whole, including by putting in place the funding necessary to deliver its requirements over the urgent timescale that all three member nations require. That is the key point for all three nations; GCAP is all about pace and timetable. For the United Kingdom and Italy, that means replacing the Typhoon before it is withdrawn from service towards 2040. For Japan, with equal urgency, it means replacing the Mitsubishi F2. That is why any delay or deferment, whether caused by the lack of a clear timetable or otherwise, is so critical.

Reflecting on the points made by my noble friends Lord Howell, Lord Lansley and Lord Trenchard, in 2020 PricewaterhouseCoopers estimated that the Tempest programme alone would support an average of 20,000 jobs every year from 2026 until 2050. The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, also raised an important point about small businesses within the issue of jobs and the economic growth of the United Kingdom. These are well-paid jobs in every constituency up and down the country. Therefore, any notion of holding back on GCAP expenditure would hit our economy hard. Any sense of delaying or deferring GCAP expenditure would undermine our brilliant aerospace industry, and indeed cast doubt over the vast sums of private investment that are already waiting in the wings, from which hundreds of UK SMEs stand to benefit.

We all recognise that GCAP is important to our economy, our future war-fighting capability and our relations with our closest international partners; the Minister recognised that in her introduction. Therefore, we need to ensure that the Government embrace GCAP wholeheartedly and confirm, as I have before, their strong and steadfast support. That includes a clear timetable on 2.5%, so that we can ensure that this programme can be accelerated by investing not only in the core platform but in the associated technology of autonomous collaboration and a digital-system approach, enabling the mass and rapid absorption of battle space data.

As my noble friend Lord Naseby alluded to, it is important that we invest. People often talk of the next war, and I am sure the Minister agrees with me that the best way to win a war is to avoid it in the first place. That requires investment, and that is what GCAP is all about. Part of our overall deterrence posture is to signal to our adversaries that we stand with our allies and friends, and our preparedness to always be ready to out-compete their technology.

I conclude by saying that His Majesty’s Official Opposition fully support this statutory instrument and GCAP, and the powerful gains that it will give to the United Kingdom’s economic and military strength, along with our key partners, Italy and Japan.