Protecting Civilians in Armed Conflict

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 12th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what are their plans for the implementation of the proposals set out in their paper UK Approach to Protection of Civilians in Armed Conflict, published on 27 August.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the paper provides an update on the UK’s approach to the protection of civilians, highlighting the work being done across the UK Government over the past 10 years to move this important agenda forward. The United Kingdom is already implementing the work we have set out and we will continue to do so, be that through the UN Security Council and other multilateral fora or, indeed, by championing agendas such as the Preventing Sexual Violence in Conflict Initiative.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns (Con)]

My Lords, the specific inclusion of children in the strategy for the first time is most welcome. What measures are the Government now taking to fulfil the commitment in the strategy to improve accountability for violations of children’s rights in conflict?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend has raised an important point. As she will know from her own time as Minister of State at the Foreign Office, the annual report on Children and Armed Conflict from the UN Secretary-General has highlighted more than 25,000 UN-verified grave violations against children. I am therefore proud of the fact that the UK is the largest single financial contributor to the Office of the UN Special Representative, SRSG Virginia Gamba, who I have worked with very closely. I can assure my noble friend that we continue to work on this as a key priority in protecting civilians in armed conflict.

[Baroness Tonge (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, the report states that the United Kingdom will tackle the climate of impunity around conflict-related sexual violence. Can the Minister confirm that this will include the prosecution of perpetrators and the provision of safe abortion services for victims in conflict zones, whatever the national law in that country stipulates?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness raises an important point. On her second point about sexual and reproductive health and support for women, particularly in conflict zones, the United Kingdom has been very clear indeed. When the latest PSVI resolution was passed, I made it very clear in support of the resolution that the absence of that element was a major omission from the resolution. Nevertheless, let me assure her that whether it is within the conflict zone itself or through the international courts, we shall ensure that the perpetrators of sexual violence are held to account.

[Lord McInnes of Kilwinning (Con) [V]]

My Lords, a key factor in the victimisation of civilians in conflict is often the ethno-religious facets of war. The report rightly emphasises the importance of local NGOs and community groups. How can the FCDO do more to support these groups in the de-escalation of ethno-religious tensions?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend raises a very important point. As he will know, we have stepped up our advocacy on important issues of freedom of religion or belief. I believe very passionately that the engagement of civil society and that of faith and belief groups is an essential component to ensuring that civilians are protected effectively. That does not just mean within countries, but internationally.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, In Nagorno-Karabakh, despite a temporary ceasefire, this NATO country is involved a deadly proxy war with civilians, including children, continuing to be targeted with heavy artillery. How can we implement the recommendations in Part 1 of the report concerning impunity and justice so that those who are in breach of international humanitarian law and continue to commit war crimes and other crimes against humanity are brought to justice?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first and foremost, let me assure the noble Lord that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has made it clear that we continue to support the work of the Minsk Group. He and the Canadian Minister for Foreign Affairs, François-Philippe Champagne, issued a joint statement on 6 October calling for an immediate ceasefire and a return to the negotiating table. That must be the first step so that, as the noble Lord has rightly articulated, we can then move forward to holding the perpetrators of crimes fully to account.

[Baroness Blackstone (Ind Lab)]

My Lords, how will the Government hold to account those who are responsible for the use of explosive weapons in populated areas which devastate the lives of all civilians, but particularly those of children and the elderly? What actions are they planning to take to prevent the use of these weapons?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the important point raised by the noble Baroness, the UK is working closely with other states, including the Red Cross movement, to promote compliance with international humanitarian law. We will continue to work with partners and call on all states and non-state actors engaged in armed conflict to respect international humanitarian law and to act in accordance with their obligations under it.

[Baroness Sheehan (LD)]

My Lords, 50% of the funding of the former DfID was targeted towards fragile and conflict-afflicted states. Will the new FCDO continue with that funding?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the integration of the two departments is a major step towards ensuring that our diplomacy and development objectives are fully aligned. We continue to remain committed to ensuring that resolving conflict and a commitment to peace will be the major objectives of the new FCDO.

[Baroness Helic (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the paper rightly stresses the importance of effective and independent monitoring and reporting for accountability. Can my noble friend the Minister tell the House whether it is still the Government’s policy to establish an independent international mechanism to investigate alleged crimes of sexual violence in conflict and what concrete progress has been made in the past two years on this?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, while paying tribute to the work of my noble friend, let me assure her that within the context of the PSVI which I lead on for the Prime Minister, it is about strengthening justice for the survivors of sexual violence in conflict and to hold the perpetrators to account. We are seeing progress. In a survivor-centred approach, we have recently seen progress through the appointment of survivor champions. The PSVI conference, which unfortunately had to be postponed, was also focused on bringing together the expertise and insight needed to ensure that we have a centre of excellence where all the best practices can be brought together.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, perhaps I may pick up on the call by the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, for specific action in relation to this policy report. Yemen is still the biggest humanitarian crisis we face, with women and children suffering in particular because of the collapse of the health system. What are we doing to ensure that we are able to respond to the crisis in infrastructure and make sure that people have access to healthcare?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The noble Lord rightly points out the situation in Yemen, which is dire. The most vulnerable communities are unable to access healthcare There are issues around epidemics, including cholera, which continue to persist. That is why it is important, as my right honourable friend has said, that there has to be a political settlement within the parties in Yemen as well as with the countries supporting it. I can assure the noble Lord that that is exactly the objective we are working towards.

[Baroness Coussins (CB)]

My Lords, this policy paper is silent on the need for additional protection for civilian interpreters working in conflict zones. Although the Minister told the House as recently as June that the UK would pursue this issue with the UN Security Council, does he accept that the Geneva conventions are currently inadequate to protect civilian interpreters? Can he report on any progress to date towards a Security Council resolution?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Baroness’s second point, I have recently discussed with the team in New York how to look at this issue, in particular during our presidency of the Security Council. Let me assure her that since she first raised this issue and continues to do so, it has remained very much on my agenda. Interpreters play an essential and vital role. They are regarded as civilians and the UK recognises their invaluable contribution, as the recent support for Afghani translators has demonstrated.

[Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale (Lab)]

My Lords, it is impossible to meet children who have been involved in conflict or extreme violence without seeing the deep trauma in their eyes and actions. The Secretary-General’s special representative on children and conflict has given a high priority in discussions to psychological support for traumatised children from around the world who have experienced that violence. Are the UK Government involved in discussions with her to make progress on that agenda?

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the short answer is yes. We are looking at all elements of supporting the most vulnerable communities. As my noble friend did, the noble Lord rightly raises the important issue of children who are directly impacted, not just by the conflict itself but in their life chances thereafter. I assure him that, as we work closely with Virginia Gamba and fund her office, we will continue to prioritise this issue.

[Baroness Northover (LD) [V]]

My Lords, following the Question from the noble Baroness, Lady Tonge, and the Minister’s Answer, can he confirm the UK’s continued commitment to the principle that international humanitarian law trumps national law in situations of armed conflict, and that this applies to abortion, if sought and recommended when a woman has been raped?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom remains committed to obligations of international humanitarian law and, as I said earlier, we call on other countries to respect their obligations to it. When we have differed on this issue, even from our strongest allies and at the top table—the UN Security Council—we have made known our difference and the importance of standing up for the sexual and reproductive health of all women, everywhere.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Russell of Liverpool) (CB)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked. We now move to the next Question.

Iran: UN Arms Embargo

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 8th October 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Polak (Con)]

My Lords, in begging leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper, I refer the House to my registered interests.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the UN arms embargo on Iran is due to expire on 18 October. We remain committed to countering Iranian proliferation to non-state actors. The EU’s arms embargo and the UN ballistic missile restrictions will remain in place, as will other prohibitions on the proliferation of weapons to Lebanon, Iraq and Yemen.

[Lord Polak (Con)]

Our abstention on extending the UN arms embargo was an error of judgment. China and Russia were always going to veto, to support Iran. Those three countries are not known for honouring gentlemen’s agreements. We should have voted with the US, to make it clear that we oppose Iran accessing arms through the legitimacy of the UN but, sadly, we chose to leave the US exposed and lonely when, in truth, we agree with it. There are 10 days before the expiry. Will my noble friend the Minister to take a lead and do what we know is right? If not, will he explain our policy going forward? How are we going to stop the spread of arms to the terror-supporting Iran?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I share with my noble friend the intention to stop the destabilising influence of Iran. The United Kingdom abstained because the resolution could not attract the support of the council, and therefore did not represent a basis for achieving consensus. He asked about the way forward. We are addressing systematic Iranian non-compliance. Iran must engage seriously with our concerns, and I know that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has asked the High Representative of the EU, Josep Borrell, to convene a ministerial joint commission as soon as possible. On what else the UK is doing, we sought to facilitate dialogue between the two positions to achieve a desired outcome. However, as I said earlier, sanctions remain, both from the EU and through the UN ballistic restrictions on Iran.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I declare my registered interest as chair of the European Leadership Network. This is all about the JCPOA and the US Administration’s desire to destroy it, or to make it difficult for a Biden Administration to recant it. The Minister knows of my support for the Government’s policy on the JCPOA: Iran not having a nuclear weapon is a priority for our security. Does the Minister agree that however we may otherwise support arms embargo sanctions on Iran—which we do—we cannot fight to keep the JCPOA alive and at the same time impose an arms embargo relating to the treaty itself?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord for his support. While the JCPOA is far from perfect, it remains the only agreement on the table. We continue to press with our E3 partners on this issue to ensure that it is sustained, to prevent Iran becoming a nuclear state in any sense. We also remain committed to Resolutions 2216 and 1701 of the Security Council, which prevent further exporting of arms, as well as the other sanctions from the EU and on ballistics that I have already alluded to.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, I hope that the Minister will answer both my questions. Has the United Kingdom said anything to the United States about the importance of adhering to international agreements? Secondly, given the volatility of the region, does he agree that very active involvement with Iran is required to build on the JCPOA?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the second question of the noble Baroness, I have already referred to the fact that we are working with E3 partners and with High Representative Borrell on that very issue. On adhering to international agreements, the JCPOA was agreed by all and we were disappointed by the United States’ leaving it, but it is important, in order for it to remain on the table, that Iran fulfils its obligations.

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)]

My Lords, I draw the House’s attention to the register of interests and my role as the trade envoy to Iran. While I totally agree that there are many legitimate criticisms to be made of Iran’s behaviour, if we want stability in the region is it not important to recognise that Iran has its own legitimate security concerns, having been—within living memory—invaded by its Arab neighbour and having lost more lives than we lost in the whole of the Second World War? Given that, if we really want Iran not to want to buy more weapons, should we not be more careful about selling weapons into the region—to Iran’s heavily-armed Arab neighbours, some of whom have spent much more on weapons than Iran?

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend, and I have said repeatedly that our challenge and our opposition are not directed at the Iranian people. It is a rich culture, whether it is Persian, Arab, Turk, Baluch or Kurd—the list goes on. On his wider point about exports of arms to the region, when making any arms sales we engage one of the most rigid processes, and we ask other countries to adopt similar measures.

[Baroness Deech (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I refer to the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action. There is no doubt that Iran has not observed it, and the United States has called for snapback sanctions. Will the Government comply with these, and how, otherwise, will they ensure that Iran’s nuclear ambitions are blocked?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the point made by the noble Baroness about ensuring that we curb Iran’s nuclear ambitions. That is why it is important that we keep the JCPOA—an imperfect agreement, I accept, but the only one on the table—and work to ensure that Iran adheres to it.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

On that precise point—how we keep the JCPOA alive—will the Minister say what practical steps he is taking with our EU partners, particularly as part of the E3, to bring it back to the table and to get agreement, with a view, in particular, to avoiding some of the sanctions? What is happening to INSTEX and the special purpose vehicle—has it worked?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that we are working with our E3 partners, as he has suggested. On INSTEX, a number of countries have come on board. It was set up so that important sectors such as healthcare could be dealt with, which is particularly important in the current coronavirus crisis, and—I can confirm—the first transaction under INSTEX has already taken place.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD) [V]]

My Lords, the Minister said that the United Kingdom abstained at the UN because there was not going to be agreement. Is that not a dangerous precedent: surely that would be true of many decisions taken at the UN? Should the UK not be voting?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as Ministers at the UN we often take a decision to abstain. It is very rare for us to veto any resolution: it should be a last resort. On this issue, the Security Council resolution is valid, and can go forward, only if all P5 members agree to it, and we will continue to work with permanent members of the Security Council to find a resolution.

[Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)]

My Lords, last year the Government were found to have acted unlawfully in selling to Saudi Arabia—another oppressive regime—arms which it then used for the Saudi-led bombardment of Yemen, leading to a huge humanitarian crisis. The Government have resumed sales to Saudi Arabia: how do they justify that?

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, this issue was looked at in great detail by my colleagues at the Department for International Trade, including the Secretary of State. As I have said already, we have a very rigid arms export regime, and that continues to apply to all countries.

[Baroness Helic (Con) [V]]

Does my noble friend agree that damaging and destabilising activities are undertaken in the region by many states, including some UK allies, and that the way forward is not unilateral action by the United States—or anyone else—but a collective diplomatic endeavour to establish, over time, a regional security co-operation regime based on the principles of international law and negotiated primarily by the countries of the region themselves?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend on the intent to get all regional partners engaged on this matter. That is why we believe that on issues and areas such as Yemen it is important, in order to reach political settlement, for all parties to be at the table. We continue to employ our resources to help that happen, but equally we require regional partners to think very carefully: their continued intervention in other countries adds to the destabilisation of that region.

[Viscount Waverley (CB) [V]]

My Lords, a stated foreign policy priority of a Biden presidency is Iran—and rightly so. Should that become a reality, will the Government call for an urgent gathering in Washington of JCPOA E3 participants—including, perhaps, Iran—to put the whole sorry mess back on track, and take that opportunity to press the importance of Israel recognition, and Saudi and Yemen processes?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we continue to press for progress on the JCPOA and we await the outcome of the US election.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con) [V]]

My Lords, as it is pretty obvious from the exchanges of the past few minutes that on Iran we are not really on the same page as the Americans, is it not time for a complete rethink of our own Iran policy, making much more use of our old friends and connections in the region, such as Oman and the United Arab Emirates? Would it not be a good starting point to take this into the integrated review of foreign policy and security which, I understand, has just been reactivated—albeit with rather a low profile—and is currently being orchestrated from the Cabinet Office?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on my noble friend’s latter point, the integrated review is under way and the outcome will, I am sure, be debated in your Lordships’ House in due course. On his earlier point about our policy on Iran, and that of our partners, it is right for us to continue working with our E3 partners, but we also need to work with the United States to achieve a desired outcome that brings peace and stability to the region. In that connection, I participated recently in a UN event, initiated by the UAE and involving Bahrain and Israel, where Israel was recognised by another two countries of the region. These are important steps forward. Israel is a reality and part and parcel of the Middle East. All the countries in the region and beyond need to recognise its status and work together to ensure peace in what has been a troubled region for far too long.

[The Deputy Speaker (Baroness Garden of Frognal) (LD)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked and we now move to the next Question.

Hong Kong: Political Situation

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 29th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the current political situation in Hong Kong.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we are deeply concerned by the situation in Hong Kong. The new national security law is a clear and serious breach of the Sino-British joint declaration and directly threatens a number of Hong Kong’s rights and freedoms. The UK will not look the other way on Hong Kong and we will not duck our historic responsibilities to its people. We will continue working with partners to hold China to its international obligations.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, China has broken its treaty obligations—I am sure the Minister agrees that we must never do the same with any of ours—suspended elections in Hong Kong, and compromised the judiciary, the free press and free speech. Will the Government extend the pathway to citizenship beyond BNO passport holders to the many young Hong Kongers who are currently excluded, but are particularly vulnerable to intimidation and arbitrary arrest?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree that the situation for all people in Hong Kong is challenging at the moment. Recent arrests after the national security law was brought in have put that into focus. The BNO route, which was announced by my right honourable friend the Home Secretary, provides direct assistance, as we promised. Anyone else, from anywhere in the world, who seeks the protection of the UK because of persecution will be looked at on a case-by-case basis.

[Lord McKenzie of Luton (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, the introduction and implementation of the national security law by China has rightly been described as a watershed moment for human rights and academic and press freedoms. One part of the Government’s response that we have heard about is the fast-track UK citizenship proposal, but I ask the Minister to say more about how this pathway is to be implemented, how many he expects to tread this route and whether there will be a transparent process for taking up these opportunities.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we have already announced how that route will operate. As I previously said, around 2.9 million people currently in Hong Kong qualify for BNO status and will be allowed to apply for the scheme.

[Lord Truscott (Ind Lab)]

My Lords, how can Her Majesty’s Government credibly condemn China for reneging on the Sino-British declaration, when they threaten to renege on the EU withdrawal agreement?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am proud that Her Majesty’s Government have stood up and will continue to stand up for the rights of all citizens around the world who are subjected to persecution and human rights abuses. We have a special responsibility to Hong Kong and we continue to raise the broader issue of the abuse of human rights in China. The United Kingdom continues to defend and stand up for international law and the international rules-based system.

[Baroness Hooper (Con) [V]]

My Lords, can my noble friend tell us what effect the deteriorating situation and restrictions on academic freedom, in particular those imposed by the new national security law—for example, students and teachers are being required to monitor each other’s compliance—are having or are likely to have on British schools, universities and teachers operating in Hong Kong? What is the impact on the work of the British Council?

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend raises important points. We continue to review the situation in Hong Kong. Recent arrests of pro-democracy activists have been particularly concerning, but I assure my noble friend that we continue to ensure appropriate protections for all British citizens within Hong Kong.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, is not the answer, when dealing with the multiple challenges of a resurgent China, to create alliances with like-minded countries and to be willing to confront or contain, as appropriate?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I agree with the noble Lord. It is why, at the last Human Rights Council, the UK led a statement of 28 like-minded countries. As I am sure the noble Lord followed, on 25 September, I delivered a statement standing up for this, which was supported by many international partners.

[Baroness Eaton (Con) [V]]

My Lords, after the violent and public arrest of a 12 year-old girl, what representation have the Government made to the Hong Kong Executive to investigate police brutality through an independent and judge-led inquiry?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend raises an important point about the independence of the judiciary in Hong Kong. That is why we are concerned about the implications of the national security law. We continue to raise issues around the case she has mentioned, alongside those of other under-18s who have been arrested, with the Hong Kong authorities and bilaterally with China.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as a vice-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Hong Kong and a patron of Hong Kong Watch. Can the Minister comment on the arrest, and detention in a jail in Shenzhen, of Hong Kong pro-democracy activist Andy Li, whom I met while monitoring elections in Hong Kong last year? I have sent the details to the Minister. What are we doing to ensure that his family have access to him, that he is returned safely and unharmed to Hong Kong, and that due process is observed?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, FCDO officials in Hong Kong raised specific concerns about these cases with the Chinese authorities on 23 September, and I assure the noble Lord that we will continue to do so.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I return to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Campbell. It is clear that we need to build international support for the people of Hong Kong. The Government have indicated that they are open to supporting a dedicated UN envoy for the crisis in Hong Kong. With recent press reports of an even stronger clampdown on freedoms, is it not time for the UK to spearhead a campaign for such an envoy and to bring other countries on board—to lead, rather than follow?

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I am sure the noble Lord agrees that we are leading. The United Kingdom led the two joint statements that were made through the UN machinery. I already mentioned the recent statement I made at the Human Rights Council. Equally, at my recent meeting with the High Commissioner for Human Rights, Michelle Bachelet, we again stressed the importance of her visit, both for unfettered access to Xinjiang and to monitor the human rights situation in China more generally.

[Lord Chidgey (LD) [V]]

My Lords, at the UN Human Rights Council last week, the Minister noted that 1.8 million people have so far been detained without trial under Hong Kong’s national security law. Will the UK respond with actions that include, for example, campaigning to suspend extradition treaties with Hong Kong and China to prevent extradition under this draconian law? What about introducing Magnitsky-style sanctions on the perpetrators of human rights abuses under the national security law?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the UK has already suspended the extradition treaty with Hong Kong and applies the same rules to China. On Magnitsky sanctions, as I have said before, I will not speculate on future sanctions.

[Lord Craig of Radley (CB) [V]]

My Lords, how many of the 2.9 million BNO passport holders have responded to the offer of an immigration visa? Have the Government reached a decision on the Hong Kong Military Service Corps veterans’ appeal to be granted full British citizen passports, which was first raised six years ago, or replied to the 64 individual veterans’ applications sent to the Home Secretary in March?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the first question, this is an ongoing process. I do not have a specific figure, nor do I think it would serve a specific purpose. The scheme is open to all 2.9 million and we will continue to support any applications. On the point about former military personnel, as the noble and gallant Lord knows, a proportion of the Hong Kong Military Service Corps hold British dependent territory citizen status. That now translates to BNO status. On his wider point about those who remain, officials continue to have discussions with Home Office colleagues.

[Lord Flight (Con)]

My Lords, some 20 years ago, I set up and ran a Hong Kong committee within the China group to inform itself of what was going on in China. Would it be a good idea for the Government to set up something like this again?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I note my noble friend’s suggestion and will reflect on it. I assure my noble friend and all noble Lords that we are watching the situation in China specifically, particularly that of human rights in Hong Kong and Xinjiang. I have said before, and reiterate, that we want a progressive relationship with China. China it is an important partner on the world stage, when it comes to the challenges of climate change and the Covid pandemic. Therefore, it is important that it stands up for the rights not just of others but of its own citizens. We will continue to raise issues of the abuse of human rights anywhere in the world.

[The Senior Deputy Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked and we now move to the next Question.

China: Uighur Internment Camps

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the condition of Uighur internment camps in Xinjiang in China.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, there are reports of torture and overcrowding in detention centres in Xinjiang, where over a million Uighurs are extrajudicially detained. We have repeatedly condemned the abuses of human rights perpetrated against the Uighurs in Xinjiang and again call upon China to immediately allow UN observers unfettered access to the region and to end extrajudicial detention.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans [V]]

I thank the Minister for his reply. The International Olympic Committee’s charter states that its goal is to

“place sport at the centre of harmonious development … with a view to promoting a peaceful society concerned with the preservation of human dignity.”

Given that the Chinese Communist Party’s treatment of the Muslim Uighur minority in Xinjiang contravenes the principles of preserving human dignity, will the Government consider holding the IOC to account by pushing for a review of its decision to hold the 2022 Winter Olympic Games in the People’s Republic of China?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the right reverend Prelate will know, any representation to the IOC would be a matter for the National Olympic Committee. The British Olympic Association operates independently of the Government. However, ensuring human dignity should be the approach of the Olympic committee or, indeed, any Government.

[Baroness Bakewell (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I am co-chair of the All-Party Parliamentary Humanist Group. Does the Minister acknowledge the strength of feeling of people of all faiths on this matter? Will the Government persist in opposing the crimes of blasphemy and apostasy around the world, particularly in the case of Mubarak Bala, a humanist arrested for blasphemy in Nigeria?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I can assure the noble Baroness that the Government’s priority is, and will remain, to stand up against abuses of all human rights and for freedom of religion or belief anywhere in the world.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, the noble Lord will now be very familiar with the China Tribunal’s conclusions on the forced removal of organs from the Uighurs and others. Are the Government now taking this report seriously? Are the Magnitsky sanctions being considered for those who may be involved in this appalling practice?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Baroness’s second point, I cannot speculate on designations. On the organ harvesting report, I have, as she knows, met with Sir Geoffrey Nice. We have also carefully considered the group’s report of 1 March. That report contains numerous disturbing allegations of serious human rights abuses, including sexual violence, torture, and forced DNA testing. After reviewing the situation this morning, I have again written formally to the World Health Organization

[Lord Polak (Con)]

My Lords, the appalling treatment of the Uighur Muslims by the Chinese regime is horrific. Yet China is expected to be re-elected to the Human Rights Council next month. Sadly, it seems that nothing can be done to halt the increasingly sinister influence of China within UN structures, seriously undermining the UN’s credibility. Will the Minister confirm that China is continuing to block the office of the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights from having a presence in China? Will he also confirm that we will not support China’s election to the Human Rights Council?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the issue of election to the Human Rights Council, I assure my noble friend we consider carefully all countries’ policies on standing up for human rights both internationally and domestically. On his earlier point, I spoke with High Commissioner Michelle Bachelet last week, and we have made the point directly to her that we continue to lobby for her unfettered access in Xinjiang.

In terms of the UN machinery generally, the United Kingdom has led on two statements—the only joint statements at the UN on Xinjiang—once last year and once this year in June at the Human Rights Council. I am intending to raise the issue in the UK’s national statement at the 45th session of the UNHRC, which is scheduled shortly.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I should mention I am vice-chairman of the all-party group on the Uighurs.

In the light of the near impossibility of arriving at a legal determination of alleged genocide or crimes against humanity in the Uyghur region, which Ministers in the other place have acknowledged, will the Minister join me in welcoming the new initiative of Sir Geoffrey Nice QC in setting up the Uighur tribunal? Will he confirm that the Government will do everything possible to co-operate with the tribunal, including providing evidence and agreeing to take seriously what will be a rigorous and impartial judgment when the process is completed?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am fully aware of the formation of this new inquiry, and we are looking at it carefully. I am discussing our approach with officials. We intend to attend the inquiry as we did the inquiry on organ harvesting.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the fact that the Minister has written to the WHO about forced organ harvesting. But it is not enough to write with the evidence; there needs to be concrete evidence. Would he argue with the WHO that this so-called self-assessment process needs to end, and that there ought to be independent verification of the harvesting of organs? Also, will he commit the Government to support my noble friend Lord Hunt and the noble Baroness, Lady Finlay, in making changes to the medicines Bill, which can address this issue and have concrete action to end this awful practice?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the latter issue of the medicines Bill, that will be discussed in your Lordships’ House; however, as a domestic piece of legislation, I do not think it is the right instrument with which to be looking at this issue, which is about international action. As for the World Health Organization, as I have said, we have taken steps. I will also seek a meeting with it to see what action can be taken. The evidence base is building, and it is clear that, if proven true, the abuses will be there for all to see. It is now important for the World Health Organization to consider the evidence carefully.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD) [V]]

My Lords, returning to the original Question: could the Minister tell us what it would require for Her Majesty’s Government to analyse the treatment of the Uighurs as a potential genocide, and what it would take for them to raise that internationally?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have already said, as well as raising this internationally, we are raising concerns bilaterally and directly, as my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has done, with the Chinese Foreign Secretary and State Councillor. We are also raising this through multilateral fora, through the third committee at the UN and the Human Rights Council. On the specific definition of genocide, the noble Baroness is aware of the Government’s position that this is something for tribunals or judicial authorities to assess.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, China has shown a callous disregard for the human rights of minority ethnic groups over a number of years. The evidence is now clearly overwhelming. Does the Minister not agree that the time is now right to instigate Magnitsky sanctions against those who perpetrate these indefensible wrongs against their own citizens? Words are clearly ineffective—this is time for decisive action.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have already said, I cannot speculate on future designations, but I am pleased that we have now initiated, through my right honourable friend’s efforts, a formal procedure through the Global Human Rights Sanctions Regime, to ensure that those who abuse human rights are held to account.

[Baroness Warsi (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that states that do not live by basic international human rights standards should not have unfettered access to international trade markets? Is he aware of the Uyghur Forced Labor Prevention Act, which was recently passed by the US House of Representatives? Do Her Majesty’s Government have plans for similar legislation to be introduced here in the United Kingdom?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend raises an important point. She will also be aware that it was through our support and initiation of the Modern Slavery Act 2015 and our support for the evidence taken by a particular inquiry in Australia that we saw many companies changing their approach to trade initiatives, particularly in Xinjiang. We are looking at the US legislation carefully, and whatever the outcome of those discussions, I will write to my noble friend.

[Baroness Deech (CB) [V]]

My Lords, the tragedy of this is that we have seen it before—these steps towards genocide. It is even more tragic that the United Nations is impotent due to the position of China. The only thing I believe the Government can do is publish a list of those brands to which it is thought forced labour by the Uighurs is contributing and call on the population to boycott those brands and hopefully prevent their import.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I have already detailed the action the Government have taken, and I believe it is for companies to make their decisions in light of that evidence.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked and we now move to the next Question. We now come to the second Oral Question.

Nigeria: Religious Violence

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 21st September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Cox]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the report by the All-Party Parliamentary Group for International Freedom of Religion or Belief, Nigeria: Unfolding Genocide?, published on 15 June.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government welcome the report and the detailed analysis of complex issues of intercommunal violence and terrorism in Nigeria. We condemn all incidents of violence and call on the Nigerian Government to do more to protect victims and hold perpetrators to account. The UK Government’s formal response to the report will emphasise our approach of supporting solutions that tackle the causes of conflict to reduce violence affecting Christian and, indeed, Muslim communities.

[Baroness Cox (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply, but we cannot ignore the chilling signs of the potential genocide in Nigeria. According to the International Committee on Nigeria, Islamist Fulani herders have killed 19,000 people across the country’s Middle Belt. I have visited four of the devastated villages in Plateau state and stood in the house where they had murdered the pastor.

Therefore, given the escalation, frequency, brutality and asymmetry of such attacks on Christian communities—and, indeed, Muslims—is it not time to give greater effect to our obligations as a signatory to the 1948 genocide convention and our duty to protect?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Baroness that this is important. I pay tribute to her work in Nigeria, and to that of others in your Lordships’ House. We condemn incidents of violence where religion is erroneously used to justify the worst of crimes and acts of terrorism and extremism. On genocide, as the noble Baroness will know, it is the UK Government’s policy not to unilaterally determine whether genocide has occurred, in line with the genocide convention. As she will know and as I have often said, this is a matter for competent courts and tribunals.

[The Archbishop of Canterbury [V]]

My Lords, like the Minister, I am grateful to the noble Baroness for raising this issue; she is tireless and fearless in standing up for the weakest and most vulnerable. While the issues of genocide are often ones of legal terminology, the situation in Nigeria is one of large-scale killing in many areas across all communities and for a wide variety of reasons, not all of which are religious. Would the Minister say how the very large numbers of UK passport holders in Nigeria—most with dual citizenship and families here—are protected and informed of the situation? Would he also say what priority the establishment of reconciliation will get in the allocation of overseas aid in the new department?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, I fully align myself with the remarks of the most reverend Primate and pay tribute to him for his tireless efforts on conflict resolution, not just in Nigeria but around the world. As he knows from our discussions, I share many of the views that he has articulated. On his specific questions, we are developing a new conflict, security and justice programme, which aims to reduce levels of violence through the development of more effective conflict-management systems, working in conjunction with key partners on the ground. On the issue of British nationals, apart from the focus on conflict management, we continue to update travel advice to inform British nationals intending to travel to Nigeria, providing, in particular, specific travel advice for different states within Nigeria.

[Lord Farmer (Con)]

My Lords, the Government continue to downplay the scale of the suffering endured by Christians in central belt states. Ministers refer to attacks by Fulani herders as

“a consequence of population growth”.—[Official Report, 11/7/19; col. 1958.]

They have also referred to them as a consequence of “land and water disputes”. This does not reflect the reality on the ground, identified by local observers as a campaign of ethno-religious cleansing. Will the Minister ensure that the Government revisit the characterisation of this violence to acknowledge the significance of the perpetrators’ ferocious ideology?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

First, I assure my noble friend that, as he will know, the Government fully endorsed an inquiry into Christian persecution, and we are carrying out every single recommendation that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister agreed. We will continue to work with the Bishop of Truro, who oversaw that particular inquiry. I share his concern that, yes, any conflict in Nigeria is exploited. Unfortunately, as I said in my original Answer, it is exploited by those divisive voices who erroneously use religion to divide people, and we will continue to condemn all acts of violence, particularly those against Christians and other communities in Nigeria and, indeed, elsewhere.

[Lord Curry of Kirkharle (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Cox, for her commitment to this cause. The all-party group report is a stark warning. What are we are doing in the UN Security Council to prioritise these serious concerns—which now appear endemic in Nigeria—and to seek a resolution that significantly enhances the security given to communities at risk of attack? Can the Minister reassure the House that we are actively pursuing this in the United Nations?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that we continue to look at the issue of the freedom of religion or belief with partners in the UN. Indeed, I am currently working towards a possible resolution, or certainly a debate, during our presidency, on freedom of religion or belief—in which I am sure Nigeria will feature.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, it is clearly beyond the capacity, or perhaps the will, of the Government of Nigeria to end the conflict and ethnic cleansing. Have they sought any external advice or assistance from the Commonwealth or the British Government, and are we prepared to act if our advice is sought?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we are working with the Government of Nigeria, and with NGOs and faith NGOs on the ground, such as Christian Aid and the Catholic Agency for Overseas Development, to support communities--particularly those that have been displaced--and we will continue to do so.

[Baroness Northover (LD) [V]]

My Lords, Amal Clooney has just resigned as envoy on media freedom because of the Government’s statement that they may not respect an international treaty that they have just agreed and signed. What challenge does this situation pose for the Minister as he makes the UK’s case for media freedom and freedom of religion and belief, including in relation to Nigeria, at UN bodies and elsewhere?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I remain resolute in standing up against human rights abuses in whichever forum I attend, and will continue to do so on behalf of Her Majesty’s Government.

[Lord Polak (Con)]

The singer Yahaya Sharif-Aminu has been sentenced to death by hanging in the northern state of Kano. Will the Minister contact the Nigerian Government to ensure that due process is followed? Although there is a ban on FGM in Nigeria, with girls out of school due to Covid the risks to 10 to 15 million girls are extremely high. The failure to help end FGM will deepen poverty and create more insecurity. Will the Minister agree to meet the Five Foundation and Nimco Ali to discuss this and ensure that funding from the FCDO for ending FGM reaches programmes that will have a real impact on achieving this important aim?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Let me assure my noble friend that I agree with both points he has raised about this issue with regard to that case. I will follow that up and take the meeting that he has proposed.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Minister also comment on another individual case, that of Mubarak Bala, president of the Nigerian humanist association, who has been held on blasphemy charges since April? He has not had access to a lawyer or been allowed family visits since being arrested. I know that the noble Lord is aware of this case, because it was raised at ministerial level back in May or June. What steps is the noble Lord taking to ensure that Mubarak Bala is given access to his legal team? If there is to be any justice at all, this arbitrary detention for 87 days without charge must end.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord and I am fully aware of the case. We continue to make representations and to ensure that Mr Bala gets the access mentioned by the noble Lord.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister comment on two urgent matters about which I have given him prior notice? The first is the targeted slaughter of Igbos and occupation of their villages in south-east and southern Nigeria by jihadist Fulanis and mercenaries. The second is the repeated interrogation of and death threats directed at Dr Obadiah Mailafia, an economist and former deputy governor of the Central Bank of Nigeria, after he publicly exposed state collusion with Fulanis in ethnic and religious cleansing in southern Kaduna and the Middle Belt?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s first point, we will continue to call for a full investigation to hold the perpetrators to account, and to implement long-term solutions, particularly, as the noble Lord mentioned, in relation to people in the south-east of the country. On Dr Obadiah Mailafia, the former deputy governor of the central bank, we have already touched on media freedom, and it is vital that we stand up for the importance of individual media freedom. When freedom of expression is restricted or under threat, human rights are generally challenged. I assure the noble Lord that we will continue to engage on this case and others like it.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Lexden) (Con)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has now elapsed.

Taiwan

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 17th September 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness D'Souza]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of reports of the presence of the Chinese Air Force in Taiwan’s airspace; and what steps they are taking to support the independence of that country.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom is concerned by any activity that risks destabilising the cross-strait status quo. All sides should refrain from taking provocative actions and resolve their differences through peaceful dialogue. Our long-standing policy on Taiwan has not changed; we have a strong, unofficial relationship with Taiwan based on dynamic commercial, educational and cultural ties.

[Baroness D'Souza (CB) [V]]

I thank the Minister for his response. China clearly rejects international rules and values, as evidenced by events in Hong Kong, on the Sino-Indian border and in the South China Sea, and, most recently, by its repeated aggressive incursions into Taiwan’s airspace. Does not the UK’s reluctance to provide Taiwan with overt political, diplomatic and trade support indicate tolerance for China’s expansionist policies, with particular reference to Taiwan?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we remain very strong in ensuring that, on the basis I have already outlined, we continue to strengthen our wide range of exchanges with Taiwan, including in relation to trade. Where the recognition of a state is not a prerequisite to any involvement or engagement in international bodies, we have stood up for the right of Taiwan to be part of those discussions—we are very much in favour of that.

[Lord Blencathra (Con)]

Will my noble friend the Minister condemn this further blatant act of aggression by the communist regime in China of threatening its neighbours and stealing islands in the South China Sea? Will he work with all other free, democratic nations to strengthen the military commitment to Taiwan and make it clear that Taiwan is an independent country and not part of the People’s Republic of China?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have already outlined, we have repeatedly stood up on the basis of our relationship with Taiwan. On the actual challenges that Taiwan faces in the context of China, we consider that the Taiwan issue is one to be settled peacefully by the people on both sides of the Taiwan Strait. Again, I reiterate to my noble friend that we call out where there are issues of disagreement with China, and anything that seeks to destabilise the current status quo in the Taiwan Strait is a matter of concern for Her Majesty’s Government.

[Lord Kilclooney (CB)]

My Lords, increasingly China is exercising its economic, military and political influence, as has been mentioned, in the South China Sea, India, Australia and of course Hong Kong, and in some nations in Africa and Latin America. Is it not time that there was a joint meeting of the United States, the European Union and the United Kingdom to agree a joint policy towards China before there is a horrible incident?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, there are many areas of concern, which I have outlined from the Dispatch Box, in China’s recent behaviour and its exercising particular policies and programmes within the context of the South China Sea, to which the noble Lord referred. We have discussed several times in the Chamber, and I am sure will continue to, the recent concerns we have had over the actions it has taken through the security law in Hong Kong and the continued issue of human rights in mainland China, particularly with regard to the Uighurs. These will remain the subject of discussions with our allies, close friends and partners, as the noble Lord suggests.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the continued campaign to isolate Taiwan by the People’s Republic is limited not just to economic and military issues. There is, obviously, the response by the WHO. Of course, at the time of this pandemic, it is really important that Taiwan is able to input its response into the WHO. We need to ensure that this campaign of isolation does not continue. While I am on the subject of the WHO, what further has the Minister done to raise with it the clear evidence of forced organ harvesting in China? Will the UK argue for an end to self-assessment and a move towards independent verification?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, concerns have been raised with the World Health Organization on the issue of organ harvesting. I know the noble Lord is aware that the evidence does not comply with action in this regard, but I am sure that we will return to those discussions.

On the initial question about the World Health Organization and World Health Assembly, we continue to lobby in that respect. This is an organisation where the criteria that I outlined earlier about statehood not being a prerequisite applies. Given the performance of Taiwan in dealing with the Covid-19 crisis, I think that it has an important contribution to make in this regard.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, the US Mission to the UN has tweeted that the UN

“was founded to serve … all voices”

in the world, and that

“Barring … Taiwan … is an affront not just to the … Taiwanese people, but to UN principles.”

Does the Minister agree?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have just said in my previous answer, we regard the relationship with Taiwan as an important one bilaterally. Equally, we believe that Taiwan has a role to play in international organisations where statehood is not a prerequisite. In the current pandemic of Covid-19, Taiwan’s response shows that it can make a valuable contribution. Therefore, we hope that in November, for example, at the World Health Assembly, it is allowed to attend as an observer.

[The Lord Bishop of Southwark]

My Lords, this country has recognised the Government in Beijing as the legitimate authority in China since January 1950, with a very distinctive status, as the Minister has acknowledged, for Taiwan, which should be discussed peacefully between the authorities in Taipei and those on the mainland. I am glad to hear about the Minister’s lobbying in connection with the World Health Organization. Would he care to comment on this pattern of marked aggression by the current Chinese Government, which has sought to limit options for people at home and abroad and is so damaging?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate is right to raise the importance of a peaceful discussion on the issue of Taiwan between people on both sides of the Taiwan Strait. I agree with him. Increasingly we have seen human rights issues where China is concerned, and I have spoken on that from the Dispatch Box. Our relationship with China is a strategic one, but that does not prevent us from calling out human rights abuses when they occur.

[Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that any representations that the UK makes in relation to the violation of Taiwan’s airspace by the PRC exemplify the unnecessary weakening of the UK’s authority and soft power brought about by the Government’s cavalier attitude to the admitted breach of international law by their introduction of the internal market Bill, which seeks to alter the provisions of the withdrawal agreement entered into with the European Union and signed by the Prime Minister?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s latter point, I think my right honourable friend the Prime Minister clarified the intent behind the internal market Bill. On the substance of the noble Lord’s question in general, we continue to defend the rights of people around the world, including those in China, where human rights abuses occur and where there are international agreements, as we have talked about before. On the agreements between China and the United Kingdom on Hong Kong, we will continue to lobby to ensure that “one country, two systems” is sustained going forward.

[Baroness Garden of Frognal (LD)]

My Lords, I recently had the pleasure of visiting Taiwan with the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, and the noble Lord, Lord Best. I found there a proud, flourishing, democratic country, constantly bullied and threatened by China. Inexplicably, the UK does not recognise Taiwan. What steps have the Government actually taken to remonstrate with China over the recent unprovoked belligerence, and all the other petty measures that it regularly takes to try to intimidate its neighbour?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Baroness about the vibrancy of the democracy. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary congratulated the president on her election at the time. I share the noble Baroness’s concern: whether we are talking about Taiwan or Hong Kong or mainland China, these are deeply concerning issues and we continue to raise them bilaterally, and where necessary in multilateral fora, to ensure that the issues can be addressed quite directly.

[Lord Rogan (UUP) [V]]

My Lords, I am sure that the whole House is united in its condemnation of China’s incursions into Taiwanese airspace, which are clearly acts of provocation. Have Her Majesty’s Government made their opposition to these actions clear to the Chinese ambassador in London? What consideration has been given to supporting Taiwan in strengthening its military defences as a means of demonstrating our revulsion at Beijing’s arrogant aggression?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I can reassure the noble Lord on any attempt to impact the status quo. I say again what I said before: the issue of Taiwan is one to be settled peacefully for both sides. It is important for China to sustain and retain its objective of settling any disputes with Taiwan in a peaceful manner and in the interests of people on both sides of the Taiwan Strait.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord McNicol of West Kilbride) (Lab)]

My Lords, the time allocated for this Question has elapsed.

Treaty Scrutiny: Working Practices (EUC Report)

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 7th September 2020 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I join other noble Lords in thanking the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, and the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull. I am going to say something which I have probably never said before in your Lordships’ House: I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes. He described these parliamentary reports as “excellent”. I fear that that is where our agreement may come to a very Lord-like difference of opinion. I am, nevertheless, truly grateful to noble Lords for their insightful contributions to this excellent debate. I also echo the sentiments of other noble Lords in acknowledging the sterling work done by my noble friend Lord Boswell during his tenure.

I thank all noble Lords present, all committees and staff for their excellent work in the production of these reports. The noble Lord, Lord Inglewood, reminded the Committee that, whatever the new norm will be, life has changed. It is, therefore, a particularly strong testament to everyone involved that in the same 12 months that these reports were produced, Parliament has established a dedicated treaty committee, with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, as an exemplary chair. I welcome my early engagement with that committee.

I know the noble Lord, Lord McNally, well. One of my first jobs in government was to serve as his Whip. Those who have seen the noble Lord perform at the Dispatch Box will appreciate my great skill in ensuring that the words “Keep Calm and Carry On” were regular reflections of the exchanges that we had. I hope that, if I am not able to directly answer all the comments in the course of my remarks, I shall be able to provide the level of warm reassurance that the noble Lord mentioned.

The production of these reports is testament to the magnitude of the issue being considered today: how the United Kingdom negotiates and concludes our international treaties. As always, I listened very carefully from the outset. The noble Lords, Lord Whitty and Lord Foulkes, and my noble friend Lord Balfe talked about how the committee itself should be governed and operate. I noticed that there was a difference between my noble friend’s perspective and what the noble Lords, Lord Whitty and Lord Foulkes, suggested on whether it should be a Joint Committee. As I am sure noble Lords will acknowledge, this is very much for Parliament itself. I engage directly with the Joint Committee on Human Rights in my capacity as Human Rights Minister and the Government look forward to working with any scrutiny mechanisms established by Parliament within the CRaG framework. I also welcome the International Agreements Sub-Committee, established in April this year.

It would be remiss of me not to pick up on the points made by the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, about the recent remarks that have been made and where we currently are in negotiations with our EU partners. In reflecting on the excellent contribution of my noble friend Lady Noakes, the noble Baroness said that my noble friend was looking at the past. I fear that my noble friend was attempting to remind noble Lords of the present: where we are today. We have left the European Union and therefore it is important, as the UK moves forward, to recognise that we will have full control of our treaty policy.

It is also right that Parliament takes a heightened interest in how the Government conduct their treaty negotiations. That has been reflected in the excellent debate today. We are at a crucial juncture in our constitutional order, and at this early stage I recognise that strong governance, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, reminded us, is vital. Our actions this year will set a precedent for the UK’s international agreements long into the future. However, the constitutional balance, which my noble friend Lady Noakes mentioned in her remarks, also requires us to be cautious about not tying the Executive’s hands.

The three reports considered today recognise that treaty-making is, of course, a function of the Government, subject to appropriate parliamentary scrutiny. That scrutiny is provided for, as all noble Lords acknowledge, in the Constitutional Reform and Governance Act 2010, which enshrines the principles of parliamentary accountability in our international treaty relations. In the Government’s response to the previous reports—I say to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, that I too hoped that we would have published my response to the report, but I hope we will issue it very shortly—we fully acknowledged the case for improving processes around the way the Act is implemented to ensure effective parliamentary scrutiny.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Donaghy and Lady Northover, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, among others mentioned the CRaG Act. They also recognised the reforms that have taken place. As we know, the Act is barely 10 years old. The fundamental nature of treaties has not changed significantly in that time and it is the Government’s view that CRaG respects the balance between the need for parliamentary accountability and the fundamental right of the Executive to negotiate for the UK internationally, exercising their powers under the royal prerogative. The rule is a result of centuries of constitutional practice, as we have heard, and it serves an important function. The Constitutional Reform and Governance Act allows the United Kingdom to speak clearly, with a single voice as a single actor under international law.

As noble Lords will also understand, negotiating a treaty is an art. However, I also acknowledge the contribution from my noble friend Lord Moynihan, who importantly reminded us of the strength and skills in our own parliamentary democracy, particularly—I add with perhaps a degree of bias—the expertise that we find in your Lordships’ House. At some stage, though, in the negotiations themselves, both sides will have to offer compromises. I am sure, however, that many noble Lords will recognise that these compromises are best kept in reserve. I was in business for more than 20 years prior to joining the Government, and I learned that all negotiations require the need for big sleeves. Announcing your position in advance often risks giving your negotiating partner the upper hand. Sometimes, of course, confidentiality—which many noble Lords mentioned—will be key. We are, of course, reminded of the Good Friday agreement.

However, if we are too prescriptive in the requirements that we make around CRaG, we risk tying our negotiators’ hands. Negotiators must be equipped to represent the national interest to the best effect. Equally, however, I respect the necessity, as has been said today, that they remain mindful of Parliament’s interests. As any Minister negotiating a treaty will be aware, the importance of Parliament’s role cannot in any way be ignored. Knowing that Parliament can resolve itself against ratification or may need to pass implementing legislation is an important consideration during the course of negotiations and in engaging with Parliament under CRaG.

The issues of CRaG, its reform and how Parliament moves forward with scrutiny were also matters of much debate in this regard. In the time I have I will pick up on some of the specific questions that were asked about the Government’s current position. As I already said, further details will emerge from the formal response that the Government will issue to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith.

What has changed since CRaG was adopted, though, is the level of public interest now that the UK has control of its treaty policy, as the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, highlighted. I say to the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, and others that the Government welcome this increased interest. We accept that this justifies increased engagement and information within the CRaG framework whenever possible. As I said, this will vary at times due to individual negotiations but could include engagement through the negotiation process before an agreement is formally laid before Parliament under the Act.

The noble Baroness, Lady Bowles, also talked of the importance of parliamentary scrutiny. The Government acknowledge that, and I add that we also believe that parliamentary scrutiny does not necessarily end with ratification. I assure noble Lords that the Government are committed to publishing all treaty amendments, not just those that require ratification and thereby trigger CRaG. Likewise, for other implementations, derogations or withdrawals, we look forward to working with the International Agreements Sub-Committee to provide transparency effectively and appropriately.

On living up to these commitments, our response has to date focused on the important issue of trade deals—an area where there has been significant recent interest, for understandable reasons. I am pleased to note the positive response to the bespoke approach of colleagues in government, particularly those in the Department for International Trade, in this respect. This point was acknowledged by several noble Lords. Its regime of engagement and transparency allows for effective scrutiny of trade agreements. I suggest to the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, and reassure the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, that we have seen through the recent compressive publications before negotiations—whether with the US, Japan, which the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, mentioned specifically, Australia or New Zealand—that the DIT, as well as other departments, will continue to keep Parliament informed through regular updates on negotiation progress.

In addition, the Government will also seek to allow time before finalising a new free trade agreement and laying it before Parliament under CRaG. That will allow the relevant scrutiny committee to produce an independent report. This open and detailed process will help Parliament and the public understand the agreement and its implications. This reflects the Government’s continued commitment to transparency.

I will pick up on some of the specific questions. The noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, and other noble Lords mentioned the 21-day timescale. In this regard, the Government commit to continue the regular constructive meetings between officials and those in the committees. In addition, it might be appropriate in certain cases for the Government to share a signed or initial treaty text with the relevant Select Committee or the IAC in advance of laying formally under CRaG to help the committee manage its scrutiny workload. This is especially appropriate for the FTAs, as I mentioned, and the Government will seek, as I said, to allow time between finalising a new FTA and laying it before Parliament under the CRaG procedure. The noble and learned Lord asked specifically about the timescales, as did the noble Baroness, Lady Taylor, and the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull. The Government will consider the use of Section 21 of CRaG, whereby Ministers can extend 21 sitting days where appropriate.

Another issue that came up from several noble Lords was MoUs. This was a matter of discussion between me and the committee during our exchanges. As noble Lords reminded us, MoUs are used where it is appropriate to include a statement of political intent or political undertaking. In general terms, MoUs are drafted in non-legally binding language to reflect political commitments. They are not binding as a matter of international law and are not published or laid before Parliament as a matter of government practice. Particular elements of this, including the Ponsonby rule, were covered by the noble Lord, Lord Beith, and the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza. In situations where MoUs raise questions of public importance, it might be appropriate for the Government to draw such matters to Parliament’s attention; for example, by way of a Written Ministerial Statement. Other measures are available to Ministers, as my noble friend Lady Noakes reminded your Lordships. However, it is not the Government’s intention routinely to submit MoUs for scrutiny.

The issue of devolved Administrations approving treaties that affect devolved issues was raised by the noble Baronesses, Lady Taylor and Lady Donaghy, and the noble Lords, Lord Bilimoria and Lord Collins, among others. The United Kingdom Government recognise that the devolved Administrations have a strong interest in international policy-making in relation to devolved and reserved matters that impact on the distinct interests of Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. I assure noble Lords that the Government remain committed to working constructively with the devolved Administrations to facilitate the effective implementation of our international obligations.

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Goldsmith, and the noble Lord, Lord Wallace of Saltaire, mentioned ways of scrutiny in other countries. My noble friend Lord Lansley also reminded us of the importance of scrutiny. As I have said, the Government welcome the establishment of the IAC and will engage quite directly. In preparation for this debate, I looked at some of the measures deployed by other countries. JSCOT, the Australian scrutiny committee, has a sifting mechanism—the noble and learned Lord mentioned this—and we see its value. It is in the Government’s interest to ensure that the most qualified committees scrutinise relevant treaties. Whereas under CRaG we allow 21 days, it is my understanding that the Australian committee currently has 15 days to scrutinise a particular treaty.

Human rights were also rightly raised—the noble Baroness, Lady D’Souza, and the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, talked of their importance. I assure noble Lords that none of the 20 continuity trade agreements already signed has reduced standards in any area. As my right honourable friend the Prime Minister outlined in his Greenwich speech, we remain committed to upholding high environmental, human rights and labour standards. The recent merger of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office with the Department for International Development aligns the importance of our values agenda with our development policy. For example, when transitioning the EU deal with the Republic of Korea, we agreed a joint statement on human rights within a separate political declaration signed by our ambassador and the vice-Minister for Foreign Affairs in Seoul. That was published on 21 August 2019. More widely, the Government have already committed to set out in Explanatory Memoranda whether there are any significant human rights implications so that departments consider the human rights implications of all treaties.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Taylor and Lady Northover, the noble Lords, Lord Beith and Lord Whitty, and my noble friend Lord Lansley mentioned the importance of confidential briefings. The IAC report specifically acknowledged the limits of sharing confidential information regarding FTAs. The Government have a responsibility to protect UK interests in our international negotiations and to ensure that we do not release information that would undermine our negotiating position or our partners’ legitimate expectations of confidentiality. I know that noble Lords agree on this important principle. However, in line with our commitment to transparency and to aid parliamentary scrutiny, we have already seen our DIT colleagues share information where appropriate with the IAC on a confidential basis to keep it apprised of our FTA negotiations. Likewise, the Government will assess whether to give confidential briefings on a case by case basis.

I am coming to the end of my time. In acknowledging the excellence of the debate we have had, and the debate that I am sure will continue, I give a continued commitment in my capacity now as Minister of State at the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office to engage. I underline that the Government value parliamentary scrutiny and look forward to engaging closely with the committee in this respect. I assure all noble Lords that no one doubts that Parliament’s role is to hold Ministers to account. Equally, I am sure that all noble Lords recognise that the Government have a responsibility to secure the best outcome when it comes to the national interest in our international negotiations.

One yardstick by which the country will be measured going forward is our record as a sovereign and independent nation on negotiating and concluding new treaties that reflect our new status. Therefore, there is a balance to strike, as I would say to the noble Lord, Lord Collins. But let me assure noble Lords that we believe that the framework of the CRaG continues to strike that balance. With the additional engagement that I have outlined today, which of course will be detailed in response to the noble and learned Lord’s report, I believe that we will be able to provide more reassurance to all noble Lords about the Government’s commitment to transparency and to work with the committee in a constructive and progressive way.

With the additional engagement and information-sharing measures that I have outlined this afternoon, I hope that I have provided a degree of those warm words for the noble Lord, Lord McNally, among others, with the added reassurance that the Government remain absolutely committed to working with Parliament for the effective scrutiny of our international agreements and obligations.

Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 3rd September 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I regret that I totally disagree with the noble Lord. The coming together of the two departments as a merger will strengthen the global reach of our development capacity and capabilities. Yes, I can confirm our continued commitment to the 0.7% target. It was a Conservative-led coalition Government who brought that into law.

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD) [V]]

I urge the Government to make an early statement of coherent development policy objectives for the new department. I am glad that the Minister has reaffirmed the 0.7% but the Government have given conflicting messages on this issue, implying that the already slashed budget may be diverted elsewhere. The Secretary of State gave an evasive answer to my colleague Layla Moran yesterday, so I am glad that the Minister here has given a straight answer today. The workload of monitoring development and working with ICAI is surely beyond the effective capacity of one committee, so will the Government recognise that we need a dedicated committee to deal with this, which happened when the ODA was within the Foreign and Commonwealth Office in the time of the noble Baroness, Lady Chalker?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Parliamentary committees are very much a much a matter for Parliament, but certainly my right honourable friend the Prime Minister’s view is that they should reflect departments. The noble Lord mentioned ICAI and that will continue, although this provides an opportunity to review its governance and ensure that it is fully aligned with the new department.

[Lord Jay of Ewelme (CB) [V]]

My Lords, there is a lot in the Statement about global Britain. Does the Minister agree that in the eyes of both the developed and the developing worlds, the success of global Britain will depend on the maintenance of a high-quality global aid programme? Will he once again scotch rumours of a raid on the 0.7% target by other departments?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I reassure the noble Lord, a former PUS to what was the Foreign Office, that I have already given a commitment to the 0.7% target. Yes, global Britain is about our development leadership and our diplomacy, and the FCDO brings the two together.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Bates) (Con)]

I call the noble Baroness, Lady Hooper. She is not there, so I call the noble Lord, Lord Boateng.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

One of the great and obvious advantages of our parliamentary system is the scrutiny that the noble Lord alludes to, and I am sure that that will continue through Statements, Questions, Urgent Questions and so on. However, I assure him that, not just through the creation of the new department but through the integrated review, our international capabilities will be very much aligned through the FCDO and the Ministry of Defence.

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth (CB) [V]]

On 16 June, the Prime Minister said that the guiding principle of the new department would be promoting the UK’s national interest overseas. Does the Minister agree that, at least in theory, there could be the possibility of a clash between promoting that national interest—for example, by supporting a prestigious project which has been much wanted by the beneficiary Government—and supporting the most vulnerable communities in that country? If there is the possibility of this clash, what monitoring process will be in place to really ensure that those most vulnerable communities are not pushed aside?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble and right reverend Lord has talked to two sides of the same coin. I think that our national interest reflects the importance of investing in the interests of the most vulnerable communities, of looking at responding to humanitarian challenges as we see them, and of alleviating poverty and famine. Those will very much remain priorities for this new department.

[Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top (Lab) [V]]

Do the Government recognise that one reason that this country has done well internationally is precisely that DfID has been outside the FCO? Four out of five of the fastest-growing economies last year were in Africa, and many of those countries really appreciated that we had moved from the department that they associated with colonialism to one that was focused on their needs and on working in partnership with them. What criteria for success will the Government have for development in the new department?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, in advance of the announcement of the new merged department but also during the current pandemic, this Government have repeatedly outlined, and put money behind, their priority of standing up for the most vulnerable. The Gavi summit, led by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister, was a very good example of that. I assure the noble Baroness that the work that DfID has done over many years is recognised, and we are now leveraging the full potential and strength of our development leadership alongside the strength of our diplomatic network.

[Baroness Helic (Con) [V]]

My Lords, the Preventing Sexual Violence in Conflict Initiative was given an amber/red score in the latest review by the Independent Commission for Aid Impact, which raised concerns about the lack of funding, strategic planning and long-term programming. Will the Government ensure that the Preventing Sexual Violence Initiative is put at the heart of the work of the new department and that the initiative receives all necessary support so that the United Kingdom meets the commitments that we made at the 2014 global summit?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the Prime Minister’s Special Representative on Preventing Sexual Violence in Conflict, I assure my noble friend that this remains very much at the heart of our work. As I have mentioned to her previously, I am keen to ensure that there is a long-term, three-year rolling strategy that ensures that we build on what we have achieved on this important agenda.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, I echo the words of the noble Baronesses, Lady Armstrong and Lady Helic; I agree with them entirely. The Minister will be aware that Bangladesh is struggling in dealing with the Rohingya refugees. I hope that commitment from the new department will continue. Is he also aware of the work of University College Hospital? Its CPAP campaign is working with Bangladesh, preparing to provide, immediately, very cost-effective ventilators, which Bangladesh very much needs. Would the Minister consider meeting with me and the team at UCL to discuss this and find a way to support this programme?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, let me assure the noble Baroness that I would be happy to meet with her and the team. Let me add to this the reassurance that during the current pandemic, as the Minister responsible for south Asia, I have been working very proactively with both the Government of Bangladesh, as well as other Governments across south Asia—as my colleagues have in other parts of the world—to ensure that our response to the Covid pandemic does reflect the needs the most vulnerable around the world. I look forward to meeting with the noble Baroness in due course, and I have received her correspondence in this respect.

[Lord Polak (Con)]

My Lords, I declare my interests as stated in the register.

The Statement concludes that the new FCDO will project the UK as an ever-stronger force for good in the world. “Good” would mean supporting our US allies in extending the arms embargo on the terror-sponsoring Iranian regime. “Good” would mean not only wholeheartedly and unconditionally welcoming the UAE-Israel agreement but also helping to build on it. “Good” would also mean consistently voting in the right camp at the United Nations, and ensuring that our generous aid to the Palestinians is rechannelled directly to the Palestinian people, because we know that so much of it is being misused and misappropriated. Can I therefore ask the Minister whether the new department will acknowledge where mistakes have been made and correct them? Then, we can indeed project the UK as an even stronger force for good in the world.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend, that it is important that we talk about our role as a force for good. As Minister for Human Rights, I believe that the merger of the Foreign Commonwealth Office with the Department of International Development allows us to directly align our values agenda with the important support we give to the most vulnerable communities around the world. The noble Lord mentioned, in particular, the recent agreement reached between the UAE and Israel. He knows that I welcome that, and I know the UK Government have welcomed that, as forward progress in reaching out and ensuring that we see lasting peace in the Middle East. It is an important step forward. On the issue of the UN and the United Kingdom’s consistency of statements, as he will be aware, we have, for example, strengthened our position on the Human Rights Council. I agree with my noble friend: not only the Palestinian people but any recipient of aid, anywhere in the world, must be the direct beneficiary. Where there are shortcomings, and things need to improve, we will do just that.

House adjourned at 6.33 pm.

Global Human Rights Sanctions Regulations 2020

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 29th July 2020 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That the Regulations laid before the House on 6 July be approved.

Relevant document: 23rd Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office and Department for International Development (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the regulations before us were laid on Monday 6 July under the powers provided by the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Act 2018. The regulations were made on 5 July.

In his Statement to the House of Commons on 6 July, which was also debated in this House, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary set out the Government’s vision for a truly global Britain. He underlined our commitment to being an even stronger force for good in the world—on climate change, as we host COP 26; on gender equality, as we champion 12 years of quality education for every girl in the world; and on human rights, as we defend media freedoms and protect freedom of religion or belief.

These regulations demonstrate that the Government are acting on this commitment. They give the UK a powerful tool to hold to account those involved in the worst human rights violations and abuses around the world. As noble Lords know, the idea of taking targeted action against human rights violators and abusers originated as a cross-party initiative, and the Foreign Secretary has paid tribute to contributions of parliamentarians from all sides. My colleagues and I have been grateful for the strong words of support from all parties upon laying the regulations earlier this month. I am proud that this Government are bringing into force the UK’s first autonomous human rights sanctions regime. I add my personal thanks to Members of your Lordships’ House. We work on this agenda, and we have done so over not just many months but many years, and I am grateful to many noble Lords around the Chamber who I know support the steps the Government are taking and the important issue of standing up for human rights for all around the world. I pay tribute to each and every one of my fellow noble Lords.

I now turn to the purpose of these regulations. As the Foreign Secretary has stated, we have designed these sanctions as a forensic tool which will allow us to target perpetrators and abusers without punishing the wider population of a country. The regulations will enable us to impose travel bans and asset freezes against those involved in serious human rights violations and abuses. The rights in question include: the right to life; the right not to be subjected to torture or cruel, inhuman or degrading treatment or punishment; and the right to be free from slavery, servitude or forced or compulsory labour. The powers also enable us to target the larger network involved in such activities, including those who facilitate, incite, promote, support or profit from these crimes. This extends beyond state officials to include non-state actors.

These regulations are the next step forward in the long struggle against impunity for the very worst human rights violations, and we will continue to explore expanding this regime to include other human rights. We are already considering how a corruption regime could be added to our armoury of legal weapons. In particular, we will look at the UN Convention against Corruption and at practice under existing frameworks in jurisdictions such as the United States and Canada.

For maximum transparency, we have also published a policy note which sets out how we will consider designations under these regulations. The legislation will ensure that due process is followed in relation to designations, reflecting the rigorous process rights contained in the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Act 2018.

In practice, those people designated will be able to request that a Minister reviews the decision and, as a matter of due diligence, the Government will review all designations at least once every three years. As the Foreign Secretary has said, we welcome the ongoing and rigorous engagement by parliamentarians on these important measures. We will continue to report to Parliament, as required under Sections 30 and 32 of the sanctions Act, in order to provide Parliament with regular opportunities to scrutinise the operation of the human rights sanctions. Parliamentarians can, of course, continue to engage with the Government by the usual means, including by writing directly to my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary.

As your Lordships will be aware, in addition to introducing this new legal regime, the Foreign Secretary has announced the first set of designations under the regulations, targeting individuals and organisations involved in some of the most notorious human rights violations in recent years. These names are published online. Those sanctioned include individuals involved in the torture and murder of Sergei Magnitsky, the lawyer who disclosed the biggest known tax fraud in Russian history. They also include those responsible for the brutal murder of the writer and journalist Jamal Khashoggi; those who are responsible for the systematic and brutal violence against the Rohingya population in Myanmar; and two organisations which bear responsibility for the enslavement, torture and murder that take place in North Korea’s gulags, in which it is estimated that hundreds of thousands of prisoners have perished over the past 50 years.

With these first designations, this Government and this country make it crystal clear to those who abuse their power to inflict unimaginable suffering that we will not look the other way. I will not speculate on who we may target in future, but rest assured that we continue to consider targets, guided by the human rights objectives of the regulations and, of course, the evidence.

In practice, targeted sanctions are most effective when they are backed by co-ordinated and collective international action, so we will work with our Five Eyes partners, in particular the US and Canadian Governments, who already have Magnitsky-style sanctions legislation, as well as the Australian Government, who are considering similar legislation, but we also strongly support efforts to bring into effect an EU human rights sanctions regime, and we stand ready to co-ordinate with our European partners on future measures. I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I am extremely grateful to all noble Lords who have participated in today’s debate. As I said in the closing of my opening remarks, I put on record my personal thanks to noble Lords from across the House who I know have been focused on the issues we have discussed today but also, importantly, on the broader issue of human rights. I give my personal commitment to continue to engage, as I did during the passage of the Act in 2018 and subsequently on issues of future designations. I put on record my particular thanks to both Front-Benchers, the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, for their continued support and challenge. I assure noble Lords that they are quite often robust challenges. Nevertheless, it demonstrates both the insights and expertise contained within your Lordships’ House that are so valuable to our thinking.

We have two Lady Kennedys participating today: the noble Baronesses, Lady Kennedy of Cradley and Lady Kennedy of The Shaws. Among others, such as the noble Lords, Lord Bruce and Lord Alton, and my noble friend Lady Altmann, they rightly mentioned specifically the important role of Bill Browder, and I pay tribute to him. It was notable—as I am sure noble Lords observed—that the Magnitsky family was also present at the Foreign Office on the day the first designations and these regulations were laid. We pay tribute to their sacrifices and to the great campaigners; I have the great honour to work alongside the likes of Amal Clooney. I am also grateful in particular to the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, for her continued focus and support in this regard.

We have had a wide-ranging debate. We talked about links to the City and, as ever, my noble friend Lord Moynihan talked about the importance of the read-over to other sectors, including sport. Many noble Lords asked about process and designation. In the time I have, I will seek to work through the specific questions raised.

First, I agree with the many noble Lords who made the important point that these sanctions work effectively only when we work with others. I have already mentioned our Five Eyes partnership. I assure the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, that we have robust systems at the Foreign Office through the existing work we do through the Five Eyes partnership to continue to work in co-operation in this regard.

My noble friend Lord Holmes and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, among others, mentioned the important role of the EU. We will continue to support the development of an EU human rights sanctions regime and we look forward to working in co-operation with all partners.

The noble Lords, Lord Desai and Lord Bhatia, among others, talked about the importance of international human rights law. This regime is totally compatible with international human rights law. I assure the various noble Lords who raised how this will apply that we will use these sanctions without fear or favour. The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, asked whether we will apply them to friends. The first designations included sanctions on individuals in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. We will continue to focus in this respect and I hope the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, is also reassured.

We heard from others, including the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, that working with EU partners is not new. The likes of Latvia, Lithuania and Estonia already have such sanctions in place and we will continue to strengthen our work across all countries to ensure that we can apply these regimes consistently and focus on the individuals who abuse human rights.

I will go through some of the specific questions before I get on to countries. The noble Lord, Lord Alton, asked about the process of parliamentary scrutiny. I assure him that we remain very much committed, as we are in the Act through Sections 30 and 32, to the review of our sanctions legislation. The sanctions Act remains the primary legislative vehicle to establish regimes via secondary legislation. I note that the noble Lord said that although it was delayed, he certainly welcomed it.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised scrutiny by committees and mentioned the debate in the other place. We stand ready to engage on all issues. As the process evolves, we will strengthen our processes. We wish to engage directly with committees in this regard.

The noble Lords, Lord Hussain and Lord Bhatia, referred to the human rights report. I assure noble Lords that just because a country is listed as a human rights priority country, it does not mean that such countries alone are the ones that we would look to work on. Clearly, there are partners and friends in those countries. The human rights report is used as a tool to strengthen the role of human rights within countries. While we may sanction individuals and organisations, our battle is not with a country itself or the people of a country. As we have seen from the example of what is happening in Xinjiang, many populations within countries suffer human rights abuses.

The noble Lord, Lord Hussain, asked specifically about Kashmir and India. I assure him that I raise these issues consistently. Indeed, I was on a virtual visit to India yesterday. During various conversations I raised this specific issue.

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge, rightly reminded us of the ordinary principles of judicial review. I assure him that administrative reviews of designations will be undertaken in strict accordance with the Act and the regulations. The Act makes it clear that, on any challenge, the court must apply principles applicable to an application for judicial review. I thank the noble and learned Lord for his continued contributions to the statutory provisions as they pass through Parliament. I assure, among others, the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, and my noble friend Lord Holmes that we will continue to adhere to the principles of judicial review, as I have articulated.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked about the ISC’s scrutiny role. It is not my job to tell Select Committees or the House what to do, but I have already alluded to the fact that we welcome engagement with various committees.

The noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, asked about prosecutors, judges and non-state actors. Those involved in human rights abuses and violations sadly include those set up to protect—including prosecutors and judges. If they meet the criteria it will apply to them as well, and to non-state actors.

The noble Lords, Lord Hain and Lord Collins, raised specific countries. The noble Lord, Lord Hain, referred to Zimbabwe and South Africa. Other noble Lords mentioned various countries. I assure your Lordships that we will keep situations of human rights concern under review. Although I have said, and will say again, that it is inappropriate to speculate on future designations, we will continue to focus on the particular cases that noble Lords have raised. I stay ready to engage directly and to take forward discussions in your Lordships’ House and on a bilateral basis.

My noble friend Lord Naseby and others mentioned other countries, such as Sri Lanka. The noble Lord, Lord Browne, mentioned Colombia. I thank all noble Lords for raising specific cases. I assure them that the FCO, as it currently stands—and the foreign, commonwealth and development office that will exist from September—will continue to consider each designation and each case that is raised quite carefully.

The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, and my noble and learned friend Lord Garnier rightly raised the issue of resources. I assure noble Lords that we have a dedicated sanctions unit, and I pay tribute to its incredibly hard work in getting this regime together and on the rollover EU sanctions during the transition period. We are working very closely with geographical leads within government and posts overseas to identify and develop designations. I assure the noble Lord, Lord Alton, that we will continue to work very closely with other partners.

Several noble Lords asked about the scope of the sanctions, including the right reverend Prelate, the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, and the noble Lords, Lord Loomba, Lord Collins and Lord Wood. The point was made that the sanctions, as currently announced, have a narrow focus. I assure noble Lords that all rights are equally important, but we want to ensure the success of the sanctions regime by keeping the scope targeted in the first instance. Furthermore, the sanctions regime will support other human rights issues, including imposing sanctions for unlawful killings perpetrated against journalists and media workers. In answer to the right reverend Prelate’s direct question, I can say that they extend to those who abuse freedom of religion or belief. Both these issues—media freedom and freedom of religion or belief—remain government priorities. I hope that the right reverend Prelate is reassured by that.

The noble Baroness, Lady Falkner, talked about anti-money laundering and the City of London. While the Treasury leads overall, as a Government we are committed to ensuring that the UK’s financial system is hostile to all forms of illicit finance.

At this point, I will revert to the issue of corruption. I mentioned in my opening remarks that we have not included corruption within the scope of the regime initially. As I said, we are considering how a corruption regime could be added to the current legal tools that we have, and we are already looking at the UN convention. As the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, reminded us, already Canada and the US have working regimes in this respect, and we are working very closely with them. This was a point of concern raised by other noble Lords, including the noble Lords, Lord Wood and Lord Hain, and the noble Baronesses, Lady Bennett and Lady Falkner. The UK is a global leader in tackling corruption and illicit finance. In 2017, we introduced the ambitious and far-reaching five-year anti-corruption strategy.

A specific point was made about the application of these regulations in the overseas territories. There are processes in place, either through Orders in Council or directly through the OTs themselves, so that they will be able to implement these sanctions regimes.

At this juncture, I want to acknowledge the important work done on human rights by the Council of Europe, as we were reminded about by the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes. He might not remember—it has been a while—but, on joining your Lordships’ House, my first role was as a member of the team at the Council of Europe. I pay tribute to the important work done there—we will continue to work with parliamentarians engaged in that agenda—and at the Human Rights Council. I thank noble Lords for their support in that respect.

The noble Lord, Lord Anderson, and others talked of delays that occurred in introducing the regulations, and he specifically asked about schools and universities. On the delay, as has been mentioned, work was done outside government. I have been involved with the work of government for a few years now and I assure noble Lords that this was a priority when I first joined your Lordships’ House; there are many in government who remain very committed to it. As the noble Lord, Lord Collins, reminded us, it is thanks to the combined efforts of many that we have finally seen this regime introduced. It was appropriate that we took the time to get it right.

Modern slavery was mentioned by various noble Lords. I am sure that many noble Lords in this Chamber and joining us virtually recognise the important role played on the agenda on modern slavery by my right honourable friend the former Prime Minister, Theresa May. She championed this cause as a priority for Her Majesty’s Government. It remains a key issue that we continue to champion on the broader human rights agenda.

As to whether this will apply to schools and universities, asset freezes prevent UK organisations providing funds to a designated person, so the sanctions regime applies to every sector.

My noble and learned friend Lord Garnier and the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, raised the important issue of consultation with NGOs. I work closely with many NGOs on the human rights front. We regularly have meetings with them. There is a body and an advisory group that meets the Foreign Secretary on human rights issues. We will continue to engage with them on a regular basis. I cannot provide a timeline, as I am sure noble Lords will respect, on whether we will be looking at a particular process for future designations every month, every week or every two weeks.

However, I can say that we have the resources available to us and we have strengthened consultations to ensure that we can act—and act swiftly—if needs require. But we will do so most effectively when we work alongside international partners. We value the insights and information that NGOs provide in this respect and intend to set out a clear line of communication. As I am sure noble Lords acknowledged, we have published an information note aimed at NGOs and civil society organisations on the specific issue of dialogue with government.

Finally, on China and Xinjiang, as well as other specific countries, I want to mention this. I have deliberately left it to the end. My noble and learned friend Lord Garnier, the right reverend Prelate, the noble Baronesses, Lady Smith, Lady Kennedy of Cradley and Lady Kennedy of The Shaws, the noble Lords, Lord Alton and Lord Wood, my noble friend Lady Altmann—the list goes on—all rightly focused on the important issue of Xinjiang and the long-term suffering of the Uighur population. Again, while I cannot comment on future designations, let me assure noble Lords that the UK regularly raises its serious concerns about the human rights situation in Xinjiang. This is done both directly with the Chinese authorities, including by the Foreign Secretary raising it directly with his counterpart, and at international organisations, as I have continued to do during our engagements at the Human Rights Council. I assure noble Lords that we will continue to raise these issues. Many noble Lords raised issues around Xinjiang. Let me assure them that the FCO is carefully considering further suggestions for designations under the global human rights sanctions regime.

I have been handed my final slip of this session before the Summer Recess. It says that I am literally out of time—and virtually out of time for those joining us from wherever they may be. It is important, and good, to end by saying that we have had a challenging session because of Covid-19 and the coronavirus. But we end on an issue which reflects the best of what your Lordships’ House is about; how we work together and strengthen relationships on the important priorities that define our country and our values. It is a great honour to be standing here in front of your Lordships to conclude our Session by talking about human rights, and also talking about the important regime which has now come before us. It shows the strong workings across your Lordships’ House and across party divides.

As I outlined in my opening speech, these regulations underline our commitment to be an even stronger force for good in the world. They demonstrate our leadership in the promotion and protection of human rights. They are rightly a priority—and long may they remain so. I thank all noble Lords for their continued support in this respect. I wish them a restive—albeit at-home staycation—Summer Recess. For me the next immediate issue is that it is Eid in a day, and I look forward to spending it with my family.

Motion agreed.

Foreign and Commonwealth Office and Department for International Development: Merger

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 27th July 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government how the merger of the Foreign and Commonwealth Office and the Department for International Development will enhance the United Kingdom’s ability to help (1) the poorest, and (2) the most vulnerable, communities abroad.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office and Department for International Development (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the new FCDO will be a force for good in the world. Building shared global prosperity, eradicating poverty, tackling climate change, strengthening the international rule of law and global security and promoting free, open societies are all in our national interest. Development will remain central to the new department’s mission. Our commitment to spending 0.7% of our national income on aid is enshrined in law.

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth (CB) [V]]

I thank the Minister for his Answer. Given that the Prime Minister has said promoting the UK’s national interest is at the heart of the new department, does the Minister agree that there is a possibility of real clashes between projects that directly support the nation’s interests and those that might do so in a rather more indirect way? For example, there might be a choice between a big, grandiose project supported by the recipient Government on the one hand and supporting poorer and more vulnerable communities, which supports the UK’s national interests only in a rather indirect way. What mechanism will there be in the new department to ensure that the voices of the poorest and most vulnerable communities are heard when these kinds of clashes arise?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has made absolutely clear that alleviating poverty and responding to humanitarian crises remains a priority programme in the new FCDO.

[The Lord Bishop of Rochester]

My Lords, in this context will the Minister give assurances that the Government will continue to adhere to their stated commitment to poverty reduction, observing both the letter and spirit of domestic development legislation, including not only the matter the Minister has already mentioned—the 0.7% GDP target—but matters such as independent evaluation of impact and gender equality, and that any deviation from the present pattern will be debated and agreed both here and in the other House?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I do not doubt for a moment that we will continue to have various debates on the new FCDO. The right reverend Prelate mentioned gender equality. As he will know, the Prime Minister is a strong advocate. Indeed, since he was Foreign Secretary his mantra has consistently been about 12 years of quality education for all girls around the world.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns (Con) [V]]

My Lords, in the House of Commons on 30 June, the Foreign Secretary said:

“There has been no sustained pause”—[Official Report, Commons, 30/6/20; col. 144.]


in aid spending. How soon do the Government plan to resume their funding for organisations such as the World Food Programme, which does such vital work to reduce food insecurity in east Africa?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure my noble friend, notwithstanding the merger—and I have been directly involved in aligning responsibilities as part of the merger—we continue to retain, sustain and strengthen our commitment to helping the most vulnerable communities around the world and supporting international programmes.

[Baroness Coussins (CB) [V]]

My Lords, will the new FCDO provide funding for projects to combat sexual violence, particularly in Colombia, on a longer-term basis than the one year’s funding generally provided by the Foreign Office now, and with survivors more rigorously involved in programme design? Does the new department plan to host the PSVI conference in 2021, after its cancellation in April this year because of the pandemic?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As the Prime Minister’s PSVI envoy and representative, I assure the noble Baroness that it remains a key priority for Her Majesty’s Government. I am sure she respects the fact that we have to look at the idea of next year for the conference in terms of the coronavirus pandemic and how we can organise any conference effectively. We are already committed to holding the COP 26 conference in November.

[Lord Boateng (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, the Independent Commission for Aid Impact has ensured the highest levels of transparency and aid effectiveness for DfID. Will the Minister give the House a clear undertaking that this will continue in the new department and that it will report to Parliament on the work and effectiveness of the new department?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The FCDO will remain accountable to Parliament in how it spends UK aid. I assure the noble Lord that we remain fully committed to issues of transparency in our aid spending. There will continue to be parliamentary and independent scrutiny of the aid budget.

[Baroness Sheehan (LD) [V]]

My Lords, the development community is in the dark about last week’s cuts to ODA. There was no consultation or notice. Will the Minister write to me with details of the process by which decisions were made and the strong case for keeping ICAI and a dedicated ODA committee for it to work through, as the best arrangement if the Government want to be trusted on their aid commitment?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, parliamentary committees are very much a matter for Parliament. I disagree with the noble Baroness on consultation. As a Human Rights Minister, I have engaged closely with human rights organisations, and my noble friend Lady Sugg and the DfID Permanent Secretary have been meeting with NGO partners on the development programmes.

[The Duke of Montrose (Con) [V]]

My Lords, my noble friend the Minister gave us a wonderful collection of high-level aims. A neighbour of mine runs a programme through an independent charity in Madagascar, tackling environmental and poverty issues. People at that level want to know whether the Foreign Office will be better able to direct funding down to grass-roots need or whether an even larger proportion of the aid budget will be devoted to international development banks, including the European Development Bank and its like.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, we remain committed to ensuring that grass-roots organisations, such as the one my noble friend described, continue to be recipients of UK support, because they deliver excellent scope and results on the ground. But the IFIs are also important partners, and we will continue to have their expertise in the new department.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I return to the issue of transparency. The fact that a 20% ODA cut was announced on the last day that the Commons sat does not give us confidence about the future of transparency. I ask the noble Lord for a direct personal commitment: is he personally committed to retaining ICAI, which ensures that ODA is effectively spent? Will he personally support an ODA Select Committee that would ensure full parliamentary scrutiny in the future?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the new department carries the word “development” for an important reason, because development will continue to be a focus. The Government will remain accountable and transparent in our dealings on ODA, through parliamentary scrutiny and by answering Parliamentary Questions, as I am today. As I have already said to the right reverend Prelate, we will continue to return to the subject when the new department comes online in September.

[The Earl of Sandwich (CB) [V]]

My Lords, a £2.9 billion aid cut and an inevitably costly merger are bound to hurt the poorest. Can the Minister at least reassure us that—[Inaudible.]

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I did not catch the full question; I will write to the noble Earl on the specifics.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con) [V]]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that, contrary to some views that we have heard, the proposed merger will bring together the considerable expertise and resources of both departments concerned with the modern Commonwealth network, greatly enhancing our capacities to support more vulnerable Commonwealth members and peoples, and allowing us to engage far more fully in the deployment of our soft power—or wise power, I prefer to call it—in support of both global security and our trade prospects?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I totally agree with my noble friend.

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD) [V]]

My Lords, why is the Minister being so evasive about the role of ICAI? It has been a huge success. It was introduced by Andrew Mitchell. Working with the International Development Committee—which I had the privilege of chairing for 10 years—it has proved an effective way of demonstrating real accountability for UK aid and giving confidence that we continue to be world leaders. Do the Government not recognise that dismantling that arrangement will not leave them with the trust of the aid community or the poor of the world?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I have already answered the issue of scrutiny. I have dealt with ICAI specifically. It has made recommendations on briefs and parts of my portfolio, including PSVI, which we discussed earlier. We continue to respond to all levels of parliamentary scrutiny, as we will with the new department from September.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have again been asked, so we move to the third Oral Question.