Sanctions

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 23rd January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hain]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what proposals they have for legislation providing similar powers to United States government sanctions.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Act 2018 provides the legal basis for the United Kingdom to impose autonomous sanctions. We have already laid some secondary legislation to transfer existing EU regimes into UK law at the end of the implementation period. One area where we will use the sanctions Act is to establish a UK autonomous global human rights Magnitsky-style sanctions regime once we leave the European Union. The sanctions regime will address serious human rights violations or abuses wherever they occur.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the Minister’s statement; it is considerable progress on the exchange we had late last year. But it is important that the Government deter international crime by establishing sanctions similar to those imposed by the USA on the Gupta brothers of South Africa for their part in former President Zuma’s corrupt regime, which looted hundreds of millions of pounds from South African taxpayers. The fact is that some of the world’s worst criminals and human rights abusers have significant assets in the UK, and it is important that this process is accelerated and given real teeth, as in the USA, enabling them to be targeted and denied the right to travel and to have their UK-based assets frozen. Otherwise, London will continue to be a centre for money laundering for serious criminals such as the Gupta brothers.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, we continue to have helpful discussions with the noble Lord in this respect. My colleague the Minister for Africa has also written to him. On his final point on money laundering, I draw the noble Lord’s attention to the fact that in 2018 FATF undertook a review of over 60 regimes across the world, in which the UK ranked the highest, showing that we have a robust money laundering regime in place. That said, there are always improvements to be made. As far as the sanctions regime itself is concerned, as I have said before from the Dispatch Box, we are currently considering its overall scope. The noble Lord makes some helpful suggestions. On his point about other regimes around the world, as I have always said, the imposition of sanctions works best when there is connectivity across like-minded partners.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, the House of Commons Foreign Affairs Select Committee recently described the Government’s approach to sanctions as “fragmented and incoherent.” We now hear reports that the Cabinet is divided over whether post Brexit the United Kingdom should be more or less active in this area. Can the Minister confirm that the Government and he himself promised during the sanctions Bill that the United Kingdom post Brexit would be more rather than less ambitious in sanctioning those who commit or hide human rights abuses and corruption?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, if there is any incoherence or lack of understanding, wherever it may be, I suggest across the piece that Members attend your Lordships’ House, where I am sure they will be suitably enlightened. On the specific issue of the policy around human rights, as we have said, global human rights underpin our sanctions policy. That is an assurance that I have given. We continue to develop, and we will be laying secondary legislation in that respect shortly.

[Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab)]

My Lords, I must immediately say how grateful I am to the Minister for the force that he has given to the Magnitsky legislation that has taken place in this country. I want to raise a question with him about the scandal that has recently been displayed relating to Angola—the enrichment of the daughter of the President of Angola, and the fact that Isabel dos Santos is someone who spends a great deal of time in London. I wonder whether the sanctions regime would apply to someone like her.

There is a second matter that I want to raise and ask a question about. We are going to introduce legislation in this House and the other place that will look at the great crimes committed by nations against people, such as enslavement, extrajudicial killing and torture. Are the Government going to include imprisonment without limit? I know that this is a difficult one and at the moment, as I understand it, it is not on the list. Will it be included in the list of crimes for which we are giving international law teeth through the legislation that the Government are going to pass?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

There was a lot in what the noble Baroness has just asked. What might be suitable for the House is if I say that we are having ongoing discussions with the noble Baroness and others, and those will continue. As I have said, we are looking at the current scope of the Magnitsky-style sanctions. That is under consideration, but it would perhaps be premature for me to speculate about the overall remit of the sanctions regime.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, on Monday last the Minister, in answer to his noble friend Lady Warsi, gave a welcome response in the context of the Uighur Muslims, 1 million of whom are incarcerated in Xinjiang in western China. He said that sanctions would be examined in that context. Can he give us some idea of when Magnitsky-style powers might be used in those circumstances? Would he consider holding a round-table discussion for Members of your Lordships’ House to talk through with us precisely how and when these very welcome powers will be used?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s latter point, I suggest that a suitable time might be once we have finalised the secondary instruments. On the general issue of the Uighurs, I have made my and the Government’s position very clear. As I said, once the designation and scope of the sanctions have been determined, that would be the appropriate time to have any further discussions.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, perhaps I might return to my noble friend’s point about the recent reports from Angola. Because of the Minister’s longevity in post, he is of course able to recall a number of the initiatives that this Government have made, in particular the anticorruption initiative. It is okay saying that our regime is strong and robust, but what are we doing to support the Government of Angola to properly investigate these crimes where the proceeds are definitely ending up in London?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, that is the second day running that the noble Lord has talked about my longevity in post. Perhaps he knows something that I am unaware of; a cup of coffee is called for. On the issue of global regimes, I assure him that we continue to provide support. A very good example is the investment that we have made through DfID in ARINSA, working with African nations on the specific issue of illicit finance and money laundering. That has resulted in the recovery of more than $500 million, so that is a practical example of how we are working in partnership with other countries in Africa to deliver.

Violence Against Journalists

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Black of Brentwood (Con)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I declare my interests as a chairman of the Commonwealth Press Union and patron of the Rory Peck Trust, and draw attention to my other media interests.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom condemns violence against journalists in the strongest possible terms. We launched the global campaign for media freedom in partnership with the Canadian Government, in November 2018, to shine a spotlight on media freedom and raise the costs for attacks on journalists. We remain closely engaged with authorities in both South Sudan and Malta on these cases, and are clear that all responsible must be held to account.

[Lord Black of Brentwood]

I thank my noble friend the Minister for that Answer. Is he aware that, over the last two years, 125 journalists worldwide have been murdered in pursuit of their work, often in direct retaliation for uncovering wrongdoing? Shockingly, virtually all these killings have gone unpunished, as democracies around the world fail to properly investigate them and bring perpetrators to justice—a failure which simply fuels further attacks. The brutal murders of Daphne Caruana Galizia in Malta and UK citizen Christopher Allen in South Sudan in 2017 highlighted the terrible human tragedy of such impunity. Does my noble friend agree that it is unacceptable that their families have not received justice? Is it not particularly intolerable that there has been no independent investigation into the vicious killing of Christopher Allen by government soldiers as he did his job bearing witness to conflict? As the Minister says, the Government are laudably committed to protecting journalists around the globe. Should they not live up to that commitment by ensuring justice for these families?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I first thank my noble friend for drawing attention to these important issues and pay tribute to his work in defending journalists and media freedom around the globe. He talked of the 2018 figure of 125 journalists murdered. While this remains a very deep concern, I note that the figure dropped last year—to 59, I believe. However, this should not provide for any sense of complacency. My noble friend draws attention to two particular cases. In the instance of Malta, judicial proceedings are under way. Let me assure my noble friend that we are providing full support to the family and have made representations repeatedly to the Maltese Government. On the tragic killing of Christopher Allen, I am sure that all noble Lords join me in once again conveying our deepest sympathy to his family. I assure my noble friend that we are working very closely with the United States and continue to press South Sudanese authorities on this case. Most recently, Her Majesty’s ambassador met the South Sudanese Defence Minister and raised the issue, and my colleague, the Minister for Africa, met the family directly.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, we should not forget that this is not just about people who have been murdered and killed and suffered judicial issues; there are a lot of journalists who have been imprisoned that we should be making representations about, including in countries such as Egypt. One of the problems with the Minister’s longevity in post is that he is responsible for taking forward a number of the initiatives that previous Foreign Secretaries have launched, one of which is of course the global media freedom campaign. I would like to hear from the Minister just how he is going to ensure that that campaign is sustainable, given that the Foreign Affairs Committee down the other end did not believe that it was—the conference cost half the budget. As we lead up to the Commonwealth Heads of Government Meeting in Rwanda, just what is he doing to ensure that the commitments he made at that conference are made by the Commonwealth Heads of Government in ensuring media freedom?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble Lord pointed to my longevity in office, and I thank him for his support during that time. Yes, I am serving under my third Foreign Secretary, but the fact is that that campaign, launched by the former Foreign Secretary, and indeed the girls’ education campaign, launched by the then Foreign Secretary who is now serving as Prime Minister, show that these campaigns are not just down to one individual who may lead a department but are important on the broader issue of human rights.

On the media freedom campaign, he is right to draw attention to the conference. There was a follow-up during high-level week where I, together with the Foreign Secretary’s envoy, Amal Clooney, and the Prime Minister of Sudan, launched a side event on this particular issue. We as the UK have committed over £4.5 million to this project and an additional £3 million over five years to the Global Media Defense Fund. As the noble Lord will know, we are working directly with the special envoy, Amal Clooney, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Neuberger, and the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, to discuss the legal dimension to the threats that journalists face. He is right to point out that it is about not just journalists who are killed but those journalists who are in prison simply for doing their job

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, as the Minister knows, I have raised with him the case of Christopher Allen several times, initially at the request of Lord Ashdown. If the FCO is indeed to defend journalists, it needs to pursue this case more vigorously. Christopher was a dual US/UK national, but the FCO did not follow the correct procedures when his family requested help. I would like to know what formal investigation of that failing in the FCO has occurred, and whether the Minister will agree to meet the family to take the case forward.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, on the latter point, as the noble Baroness will know, of course I would be willing to meet the family. I suggest, as I said in my original Answer, that my colleague the Minister for Africa is also present, who most recently met with Christopher’s cousin. I assure the noble Baroness that, if there have been any shortcomings in our approach, we always take that issue very seriously. I am constantly looking at issues of consular assistance to ensure that we not only respond accordingly to citizens when a particular tragedy befalls them but offer them support afterwards. On this particular issue, we want to link the support that we are providing through legal expertise to journalists with how we can bridge the gap and support those families where, tragically, the journalists themselves have been killed.

[Baroness Coussins (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that there is an equally strong case for additional and specific protection for interpreters working alongside journalists, particularly in conflict zones, where the journalists could not do their jobs unless the interpreters were working with them? The protection that interpreters get as civilians under the Geneva convention is regarded as inadequate because they are not ordinary civilians in this context. Does the Minister agree that a good place to start would be to persuade the UN Security Council to agree a specific resolution on the protection of interpreters in conflict zones that mirrors the resolution that already exists on the protection for journalists?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I pay tribute to the noble Baroness’s work in this respect. She and I have spoken on this subject on a number of occasions and she knows my specific views. I support the fact that there are many translators who act in support of not just journalists but other parts of government and NGOs on the ground, and we should look to afford them protection. She mentions the UN Security Council. There are always challenges around getting a specific resolution passed, but I assure her that these discussions are taking place with my colleagues and with counterparts from other countries at the UN.

Kashmir

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 20th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hussain]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the human rights situation in Indian-administered Kashmir following the abrogation of Articles 370 and 35(A) of the Indian constitution.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we recognise that there are human rights concerns in Indian-administered Kashmir. We encourage all states to ensure that domestic laws are in line with international standards. Any allegation of human rights violations or abuse is deeply concerning and must be investigated thoroughly, promptly and transparently. The continued use of detentions and restrictions in Indian-administered Kashmir is worrying. We are clear on the importance of rights being fully respected, and we raise our concerns directly with the Indian Government.

[Lord Hussain (LD)]

I thank the Minister for that Answer. On 5 August 2019, the Indian Government revoked Articles 370 and 35A of the Indian constitution, which gave Jammu and Kashmir a special status in the Union of India, removed the state Government and arrested and detained thousands of Kashmiris, including three former Chief Ministers. According to Human Rights Watch:

“Prior to its actions in Jammu and Kashmir, the government deployed additional troops to the province, shut down the internet and phones, and arbitrarily detained thousands of Kashmiris, including political leaders, activists, journalists, lawyers, and potential protesters, including children. Hundreds remain in detention without charge or under house arrest to prevent protests.”


On 17 September, Amnesty International said:

“The continued use of draconian laws against political dissidents, despite promises of change, signals the dishonest intent of the Indian government. Thousands of political leaders, activists and journalists continue to be silenced through … detention laws.”


In the light of this information, does the Minister not agree with me that India is violating the principles and values of the Commonwealth? What representation have the British Government made to the Indian Government in this respect?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, there was a lot in that question, but on a serious issue. As the noble Lord has heard, I have already made our position very clear. Indeed, as Minister for South Asia, I have been dealing directly with this issue, but not just me: my right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary have also raised the very concern the noble Lord raises.

As far as India’s membership of the Commonwealth is concerned, India is the largest democracy. It is an important and valued member of the Commonwealth and will continue to be so. As the largest democracy, India knows—we have these exchanges with India—that the importance of respecting human rights is one of the fundamental tenets of the charter, and we encourage all member states, India included, to uphold those shared commitments.

[Baroness Verma (Con)]

My Lords, surely a constitutional matter that is internal to a country is the issue of that country. As close friends of India, we must respect that India has a right to amend its constitution when it chooses to do so. Does my noble friend agree that this change gives equal rights to women, the LGBT community, those in minority communities and the disadvantaged?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, my noble friend refers to Article 370. In the UK, we have consistently retained our position across successive Governments, and it is important to re-emphasise that. As for the situation in Kashmir, or indeed any issue between India and Pakistan, we retain and will continue to retain the view that it needs to be resolved bilaterally by both countries, while respecting the views of those in Kashmir.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister referred just now to India as a democracy. Does he agree that the Indian action in Kashmir questions its right to be called a secular democracy? As we have heard, hundreds of Muslims are routinely rounded up, and many disappear. According to the medical journal the Lancet, hospital staff are being told to understate the number of fatalities occurring to minimise scrutiny. It is a state which even MPs cannot visit, as internet and phone connections have been cut off. This is all happening in a state that, in more peaceful conditions, could live on tourism alone.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s final point, as anyone who has visited Kashmir will know, it is a beautiful part of the world. On his wider point on human rights in Kashmir and detentions after India revoked Article 370, as I said in my original Answer we have raised these issues; I have consistently raised the specific issue of the detention of various representatives. The noble Lord also talked about internet access. The contractual-based internet has been reintroduced across all of Kashmir and Ladakh. Currently, there is no open mobile service, but we continue to raise these issues with the Indian Government directly. It is important that the UK lend its voice to the incredible confidence-building initiatives between India and Pakistan. In that respect, I pay tribute to both countries on the recent opening of the Kartarpur corridor, which allows Sikh pilgrims to travel without visas across to Pakistan to pay respects at a very sacred temple.

[Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab)]

My Lords, I want to ask the Minister about the important lead this Government are taking on media freedom. It is important to note that India leads the world in the maximum number of internet shutdowns conducted, particularly in Jammu and Kashmir, which have had indefinite communication blackouts. The media is one of the ways people know about their freedoms and what is happening to members of their community. We have had disappearances and the alleged use of torture. The human rights abuses have been considerable, including the shooting of people with metal pellets, which have blinded 1,500 people. Given the importance of media freedom to this Government, what are we saying to India about these media shutdowns?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I pay tribute to the noble Baroness’s work. We will continue to work together on the important issue of the media freedom campaign. I assure noble Lords that that remains a key priority for Her Majesty’s Government. We will continue to call out media suppression around the world. On India specifically, the noble Baroness raised the internet shutdown. There are areas, such as Jammu, where the internet has been restored, but concerns remain within the Kashmir valley which we consistently raise. On our exchanges with India, the Indian Foreign Minister, Mr Jaishankar, actually attended the media freedom conference. We continue to raise these issues. India is a democracy, media freedom is a fundamental tenet of democracy, and there are many in India who support that very value.

China: Uighurs

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 20th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Warsi]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their latest assessment of the treatment of Uighurs in China; and what representations they have made to the Government of China regarding such treatment.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we have deep and serious concerns about the human rights situation in Xinjiang, including the extrajudicial detention of more than 1 million Uighur Muslims and other minorities in what are called political re-education camps, systematic restrictions on Uighur culture and the practice of Islam, and extensive surveillance. We regularly raise these concerns with the Chinese authorities and at the United Nations. Most recently, the UK ambassador to China raised Xinjiang directly with the Vice Foreign Minister on 24 December 2019.

[Baroness Warsi (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his Answer. The Uighurs are being subjected to the largest surveillance and internment of any ethnic minority since the Holocaust. They are subjected to torture in the name of re-education and retraining. The families of British Uighurs are currently detained in camps. Does my noble friend feel that enough is being done to raise this issue with China? Bearing in mind that we will mark Holocaust Memorial Day a week today, do he and the Government recognise the hollowness of pledging to never forget when we allow the horrors of the past to be repeated in full view and with our full knowledge?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, on my noble friend’s final point, it is a very poignant moment as we reflect on the anniversary of the liberation of Auschwitz-Birkenau next week. My noble friend Lord Pickles and I have just returned from Brussels after attending a meeting this morning focused on anti-Semitism, which remains a scourge in the modern world. My noble friend is quite right on Xinjiang and I agree with her. I assure her that we have raised the issue of Xinjiang, and the suppression of the Uighurs and other minorities, bilaterally with the Chinese Government. As Human Rights Minister, I made it a specific point to raise this issue at the Human Rights Council directly and in partnership and collaboration with other like-minded partners. It remains a key priority that we continue to raise in bilateral and multilateral fora across the globe.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, is it not time, though, for some more action? Words do not seem to be having any effect. We could be working with our allies to ensure that we have targeted sanctions. I think in particular of the companies making money out of the sorts of things being done in the province. Should we not be working with our European allies to ensure that those companies are subject to sanctions? We need to ensure that China listens and acts.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I believe that China is listening. I have sat in international meetings with the Chinese authorities, raising our concern. As to whether the United Kingdom and other countries will raise Xinjiang and, in particular, the situation of the Uighurs, we have consistently done so. Most recently, we have also called for access to Xinjiang for Michelle Bachelet, the UN High Commissioner for Human Rights. These systematic and focused parts of our strategy continue. The noble Lord raised the important issue of the use of sanctions. As he well knows, the Government are currently contemplating this. We would be looking to introduce Magnitsky-style sanctions, which are geared at ensuring that those who commit human rights abuses are not allowed to enter countries. Restrictions would be placed on them. I am sure that the Magnitsky sanctions regime will play an important part in the overall mix as we consider our human rights policy globally.

[Lord Dholakia (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister rightly points out that over 1 million Uighurs have gone through the indoctrination process to be converted into obedient Chinese communist workers. Is he aware that this is brainwashing on an industrial scale? Is it not time that he contacted the United Nations to see whether a high-level delegation can visit this province of China to see what precisely is happening in some of these camps? The latest satellite evidence demonstrates very clearly the destruction and razing of the graves of the Uighur community. Can the Foreign Office address with the Chinese Government the nature of their actions on some of the Uighur community’s secular burial sites?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord raises an important point. I assure him that we are doing exactly as he suggests. Most recently, we called on the Chinese authorities to allow meaningful and unrestricted access to Xinjiang for all UN observers, including Michelle Bachelet, the United Nations High Commissioner for Human Rights, as I said in response to an earlier question. We have also repeatedly called for this action to be taken forward, in the UN Third Committee statement in October and through our national statements at the Human Rights Council. China is an important strategic partner for the United Kingdom, and our relationship allows us to raise these issues bilaterally. I assure the noble Lord that we will continue to do so through international fora such as the UN.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, has the Minister, in those bilateral talks, challenged the Chinese Government’s campaign against what they call extremism? In Xinjiang, extremism is measured by the length of a beard or the desire to pray in a mosque not controlled by the Communist Party. As we have heard, it leads to incarceration, torture and re-education, and to what a United Nations committee on the elimination of racial discrimination recently described Xinjiang as: a “no-right zone.” As the noble Lord, Lord Collins, said, should we not be desisting from business as usual with companies such as Huawei, Dahua and Hikvision; that is, funnelling British money into companies which are arms of a communist state responsible for egregious human rights violation, which I wrote to the Minister about on 11 December 2019?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, on the point about extremism, that has been a narrative which the Chinese have put forward. We all have challenges of extremism; there are ways and means of dealing with them. While I do not have a beard, I fear I would fall short on the second of those signs of extremism: praying in a non-communist-led mosque. That said, the noble Lord raises important issues. As I said to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, we are looking at introducing a sanctions regime. Our relationship with China is an important one, the strength of which allows us to raise serious human rights concerns, as I said earlier.

Hong Kong

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 15th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In so doing, I declare that I travelled to Hong Kong to monitor the recent elections as a guest of Stand With Hong Kong and Hong Kong Watch, of which I am a patron.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we remain concerned at the situation in Hong Kong. The Foreign Secretary welcomed the peaceful conduct of local elections, and we continue to urge all sides to take the opportunity to find a way through with meaningful political dialogue. It is essential that protests are conducted peacefully and lawfully, and that the authorities respond proportionately. We expect arrests and judicial processes to be both fair and transparent, and we have consistently called for a robust, credible and, indeed, independent investigation.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

My Lords, in welcoming that reply from the Minister, perhaps I might ask how the Government will respond to the evidence given to Parliament by Dr Darren Mann about the police arrest and zip-wiring of medics, which he said amounted to

“grave breaches of international norms and human rights law.”

He described disproportionate brutality, including the shooting of rubber bullets at close range and the use of tear gas in confined areas. Does the Minister agree that this is in contravention of the United Nations guidelines on the use of less-lethal weapons and breaks international law? Does not the arrest of a young woman outside our own consulate at the weekend mean that it is time for us to demand an independent inquiry, as the Minister said, and for us to take the lead in establishing it and explore the use of Magnitsky-type powers to bring the perpetrators to justice?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s final point, as he will be aware, bringing forward Magnitsky-style powers through a sanctions policy is something we are looking at proactively at the Foreign Office, and we will be coming forward with recommendations in the near future. He raises important issues, and we pay tribute to his work in Hong Kong and in consistently raising this issue. We take the allegations set out by Dr Mann’s description of the arrest of medical personnel at the Hong Kong Polytechnic University very seriously. As we have said time and again, we also expect the Hong Kong authorities to abide by their own laws and international obligations.

As I said in my original Answer, we believe that an independent inquiry into events in Hong Kong is a critical step, and the UK has repeatedly called for such an independent inquiry to take place. The noble Lord mentioned a recent arrest outside the British consulate-general. I assure the noble Lord that the UK fully supports the right to peaceful and lawful protest. Indeed, as he will know, a static protest has been in place outside the British consulate-general in Hong Kong for a number of months now.

[Lord Geddes (Con)]

Is my noble friend aware of the reports of police secreting themselves in ambulances, thereby putting at risk the neutrality of the medical services?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, there are many reports around the recent situation and unrest in Hong Kong. My noble friend raises one particular issue. Suffice it to say that we take note of any such news stories and ensure that there is an evidence base in support of them. There will be protests and injuries. I assure my noble friend that we continue to implore the Hong Kong authorities to act to support those attending to those injured through such protests to give the right medical attention as soon as possible.

[Lord Winston (Lab)]

My Lords, having just returned from the gas attacks in Hong Kong as a visitor and guest of the Chinese University of Hong Kong, I feel that it is really important that the Government understand and represent fairly the issues for the academic community. I talked extensively to the vice-chancellor of the university, who is massively torn between his need to protect his students and obeying what is required by law. Any noise and representation that the Government can make is therefore of immense importance, given the loneliness and difficulties they face at present.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I assure the noble Lord that we take very seriously our responsibilities in raising the issues around the protests and the response to those protests. We raise issues consistently both with the Hong Kong authorities and indeed with Chinese counterparts. The noble Lord said he has just returned from a visit. It is important to get a real insight into issues on the ground and, if the noble Lord is willing, I will seek to sit down with him to discuss his views and insights in more detail.

[Lord Steel of Aikwood (LD)]

My Lords, having heard what the doctor said about how medical personnel in Hong Kong deal with the injured—be they protesters, policemen, journalists or bystanders—it is surely intolerable that their work should be interfered with in any way. Given that the Sino-British agreement is registered internationally, should we not be much more assertive in protecting humanitarian law?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the noble Lord, and think that it is right, whether we are talking about Hong Kong or anywhere else in the world, that medical professionals, when they are seeking to assist those injured, whatever the reason for the injury, are given unfettered access. As I have said on a number of occasions from the Dispatch Box, we are absolutely committed to the agreement. Indeed, as the noble Lord may be aware, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary released a statement on the 35th anniversary of the joint declaration in which he said:

“This agreement between the UK and China made clear that Hong Kong’s high degree of autonomy, rights and freedoms would remain unchanged for 50 years. The undertakings made by China, including the right to freedom of expression, an independent judiciary and the rule of law, are essential to Hong Kong’s prosperity and way of life.”


We stand by that.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

Is there anything further that Her Majesty’s Government can do in this very difficult situation—perhaps in diplomatic terms, at the UN or wherever—to hold the behaviour of the Chinese up to the scrutiny of the whole world? It is not only the awful thing in Hong Kong, which the noble Lord, Lord Steel, has just spoken of, but also the Uighurs in the province of Xinjiang. It is shocking and should be exposed to the whole world.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend raises some very important points. I assure him that that we take seriously our responsibilities to raise the issues both of Hong Kong and of the Uighurs in Xinjiang. As the UK’s Human Rights Minister I have taken this forward and, during our formal statements at the Human Rights Council, I have directly raised the issue of the Uighur community, as well other persecuted minorities in China.

Iran: Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 14th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall repeat a Statement given in another place this afternoon by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary. The Statement is as follows:

“With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement on the Iran nuclear agreement, known as the Joint Comprehensive Plan of Action—the JCPOA. I addressed the House yesterday on the wider concerns in relation to Iran’s conduct in the region. The strategic aim for the United Kingdom, and our international partners, remains as it has always been: to de-escalate tensions; to hold Iran to account for its nefarious activities; and to keep the diplomatic door open for the regime to negotiate a peaceful way forwards.

Iran’s destabilising activity should serve as a reminder to us all of the danger to the region and to the world if Iran were ever to acquire a nuclear weapon. We cannot let that happen. With that in mind, today, the E3, consisting of the United Kingdom, France and Germany, have jointly taken action to hold Iran accountable for its systematic non-compliance with the JCPOA. As the European parties to the deal, we have written to the EU High Representative, Josep Borrell, in his capacity as co-ordinator of the JCPOA. We have formally triggered the dispute resolution mechanism, thereby referring Iran to the joint commission.

Let me set out the pattern of non-compliance by the regime that left us with no credible alternative. Since last May, Iran has, step by step, reduced its compliance with critical elements of the JCPOA, leaving it a shell of an agreement. On 1 July 2019, the IAEA reported that Iran had exceeded key limits on low-enriched uranium stockpile limits. On 8 July, the IAEA reported that Iran had exceeded its 3.67% enriched uranium production limit. On 5 November, the IAEA confirmed that Iran had crossed its advanced centrifuge research and development limits. Then, on 7 November, the IAEA confirmed that Iran had also restarted enrichment activities at the Fordow facility, a clear violation of JCPOA restrictions. On 18 November, the IAEA reported that Iran had exceeded its heavy water limits, and on 5 January of this year, Iran announced that it would no longer adhere to JCPOA limits on centrifuge numbers.

Each of those actions individually were serious. Together, they now raise acute concerns about Iran’s nuclear ambitions. Iran’s breakout time—the time it would need to produce enough fissile material for a nuclear weapon—is now falling, and that is an international cause of concern. Time and time again, we have expressed our serious concerns to Iran and urged it to come back into compliance. Time and time again, in its statements and, more importantly, through its actions, it has refused, undermining the very integrity of the deal and flouting its international commitments. Iran’s announcement on 5 January made it clear that it was now effectively refusing to comply with any of the outstanding substantive restrictions that the JCPOA had placed on its nuclear programme.

To be clear, on that date the Iranian Government stated that their

‘nuclear program no longer faces any operational restrictions, including enrichment capacity, percentage of enrichment, amount of enriched material, and research and development.’

Therefore, with regret, the E3 was left with no choice but to refer Iran to the JCPOA’s dispute resolution mechanism. The DRM is the procedure set out in the deal to resolve disputes between the parties to the agreement. Alongside our partners, we will use this to press Iran to come back into full compliance with its commitments and honour an agreement that is in all our interests.

The European External Action Service will now co-ordinate and convene the DRM process. As a first step, it will call a meeting of the joint commission, bringing together all parties to the JCPOA within 15 days. This process has been explicitly designed to allow participants flexibility and full control at each and every stage.

Let me be clear to the House. We are triggering the DRM because Iran has undermined the objective and purpose of the JCPOA, but we do so with a view to bringing Iran back into full compliance. We are triggering the DRM to reinforce the diplomatic track, not to abandon it.

For our part, as the United Kingdom, we were disappointed that the US withdrew from the JCPOA in May 2018, and we have worked tirelessly with our international partners to preserve the agreement. We have upheld our commitments, lifting economic and financial sanctions on sectors such as banking, oil, shipping and metals. We lifted an asset freeze and travel bans on listed entities and individuals. We have sought to support a legitimate trade relationship with Iran. The United Kingdom, France and Germany remain committed to the deal and we will approach the DRM in good faith, striving to resolve the dispute and bring Iran back into full compliance with its JCPOA obligations.

As I made clear to the House yesterday, Iran has a choice. The regime can take steps to de-escalate tensions and adhere to the basic rules of international law or sink deeper into political and economic isolation. So, too, Iran’s response to the DRM will be a crucial test of its intentions and good will.

We urge Iran to work with us to save the deal. We urge Iran to see this as an opportunity to reassure the world that its nuclear intentions are exclusively peaceful. We urge the Iranian Government to choose an alternative path and engage in diplomacy and negotiation to resolve the full range of its activities that flout international law and destabilise the region. I commend this Statement to the House.”

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. Does he notice the marked difference in tone between that Statement and the joint statement from the E3 to which the noble Lord, Lord Collins, has referred, which is from the Foreign Ministers of France, Germany and the United Kingdom? He will doubtless say that he does not see a marked difference.

The E3 statement is clear and unequivocal but statesmanlike. It argues that we

“share fundamental common security interests, along with our European partners. One of them is upholding the nuclear non-proliferation regime, and ensuring that Iran never develops a nuclear weapon.”

That is absolutely right. It argues that the JCPOA

“plays a key role in this respect, as our Leaders have just unambiguously reaffirmed.”

It states that the JCPOA is

“a key achievement of multilateral diplomacy”.

It therefore goes on to say:

“Together, we have stated unequivocally our regret and concern at the decision by the United States to withdraw from the JCPoA and to re-impose sanctions on Iran. Since May 2018, we have worked together to preserve the agreement. The E3 have fully upheld our JCPoA commitments, including sanctions-lifting as foreseen under the terms of the agreement.”


It continues by saying:

“In addition to the lifting of all sanctions, required by our commitments under the agreement, we have worked tirelessly to support legitimate trade with Iran.”

The E3 states that, since 2018 and especially recently, we

“have worked hard to address Iran’s concerns”

and

“sought to persuade Iran to change course”

in relation to it not meeting some of its obligations. It states that the E3 is referring Iran to the dispute resolution process

“in good faith with the overarching objective of preserving the JCPoA”.

I have quoted at length so that noble Lords can see the difference between what the Minister has just read out, and the E3 statement. Does he agree that the E3 statement is reasoned and reasonable? He must do so because our Foreign Secretary agreed to it. We claim in the E3 statement that we are referring Iran to the dispute resolution mechanism in good faith because we support the JCPOA. How does that square with what we have just heard is coming from the very top of the Government: that they agree with the US that this is an inadequate deal?

Does the Minister agree with the noble Baroness, Lady Ashton, who played such a key role in the negotiation of this agreement and described it as a “boulder in the door”? How are we seeking to de-escalate tensions when at the same time, we accuse Iran in the Statement he has just read out of “nefarious” intentions? Does the E3 statement square with what the Minister has said about this being a “shell of an agreement”?

It is two and half pages into this Statement before we hear that the UK is “disappointed” that the US withdrew from the JCPOA in May 2018. We rightly seek that Iran comes back into compliance, but where is the request that the US comes back into compliance? We have indeed upheld our commitments, but does the noble Lord not accept that the US’s legal reach means that companies do not want to trade with Iran lest they end up in the US courts, and that, therefore, the bringing of Iran back into the global fold has been severely damaged by US actions? How does the Minister square that with what is being asked of Iran?

Which line do the Government support—the EU-supported JCPOA or Trump’s point of view? Meanwhile, we see convulsions in Iran over the shooting down of the Ukrainian plane and the lies that followed that. Does the Minister agree that the strong reaction in Iran is encouraging and reflects, as ever, the complexity and levels of education and information prevalent in Iranian society?

Might this not be a time to be statesmanlike and request, for example, that the Iranians take this opportunity to release dual nationals on compassionate grounds? It is highly likely that many in the Iranian population are well aware of their plight and would have sympathy with the release, for example, of Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, so that she can rejoin her husband and little daughter. As we seek to make such a case, can the noble Lord tell me precisely when the Prime Minister will meet Richard Ratcliffe to take this forward?

The Government are right to urge de-escalation. Does the Minister agree that it is vital that we work internationally and with our EU partners to assist that process, or does he think we should be moving away from this position and towards that of President Trump?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I thank both the noble Lord and the noble Baroness for their comments and the general thrust of support from both Benches.

In picking up on some of the questions and issues raised, I first note that both the noble Lord and the noble Baroness mentioned the E3 statement of 12 January. It is right: we are members of the E3 and the mechanism has been invoked in partnership. It is an E3 decision. The noble Baroness felt there were nuanced differences between the Statement I read out and that of the E3. The language is of course agreed with our partners, but the general thrust of both statements is very much inclined towards ensuring a diplomatic solution and that the diplomatic channel with Iran remains firmly open.

It is with deep regret that this mechanism has been invoked. The noble Baroness spoke of the sterling work of the noble Baroness, Lady Ashton, who I know and respect greatly, and yes, she played an instrumental part when the JCPOA came to fruition. However, as the Statement outlined, we have seen in recent months—I outlined specific dates—Iran’s continuing non-compliance. On the issue of squaring off and my speaking of “nefarious activities”, it is obvious that the dispute mechanism would only have been invoked because of non-compliance. It is regrettable, but Iran has taken steps which justify the action that we have taken, not alone but in partnership with the E3.

I turn to another issue that the noble Lord raised concerning the Prime Minister’s Statement this morning, which I have just read out. The Prime Minister has been very clear and the E3 statement of 12 January—from Chancellor Merkel, President Macron and our Prime Minister—was also clear about our position and continued commitment to the JCPOA. We have had various debates in your Lordships’ House in which we have all agreed that even at its outset, the JCPOA was limited in certain respects and did not cover the full range of the challenges faced, ballistic missiles being one notable example. Nevertheless, it remains the only deal in town. It is therefore right that we invoke this mechanism, not to end the deal but, I say to both the noble Lord and the noble Baroness, to ensure that we can leave that diplomatic channel open. The mechanism was set up for that very reason.

The noble Baroness rightly spoke about de-escalating tensions. I am proud of the role that the United Kingdom has played in what has been a very challenging situation in the region and in Iran specifically, together with our partners, most notably Germany and France. In this respect, I would suggest that we are in a better place today than we were perhaps 24 or 36 hours ago. However, notwithstanding the tensions being de-escalated, when it comes to the JCPOA deal itself, it is of deep regret that the actions of Iran have led to the action we have had to take.

The noble Lord and the noble Baroness both rightly raised the issue of dual nationals. I assure all noble Lords that we will continue to take all action on all consular cases in Iran, in line with what we believe will produce the right outcomes. On 6 January, the Foreign Secretary spoke to Foreign Minister Zarif in Iran and again raised the very serious concerns that the noble Lord and the noble Baroness raised today—and rightly continue to raise—about Iran’s practice of detaining foreign and dual nationals. As noble Lords are aware, Iran does not recognise dual nationality. However, notwithstanding that point, we continue to raise these issues consistently. I cannot give the noble Baroness a specific date for any future meeting between the Prime Minister and Richard Ratcliffe, but I assure her that we continue to engage with and support all families that seek support. I last met Richard Ratcliffe in September, during the UN high-level week. We will continue to support the families and to stress upon Iran the need for their immediate release.

The noble Baroness raised the tragic shooting down of the Ukrainian jet. I am sure I speak for all noble Lords across this House when I say that first and foremost, our prayers and thoughts are with those families. In one particular instance, there was a couple who had just got married. We have not just relayed messages to our partners. The Prime Minister has spoken to President Zelensky of Ukraine and I know the Foreign Minister has engaged with all Foreign Ministers in this respect. I myself earlier this week visited Canada House to pay respects to the Canadian victims of this tragedy. It is important that we work together. We have made it clear to the Ukrainians as well as the Iranians that we stand ready to assist with the expertise that we can provide to ensure a full, transparent and complete investigation of this incident. I assure the noble Baroness that we will continue to make representations in this regard.

I hope I have answered the questions and concerns that have been raised. This is a very serious situation. The JCPOA was negotiated through great compromises that were made. It remains, as I said, the only deal on the table, and we will continue to work to retain it.

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)]

My Lords, I draw attention to my entry in the register of Members’ interests. I am the unremunerated chairman of the British Iranian Chamber of Commerce and, as my noble friend knows, the Government’s trade envoy to Iran.

I associate myself completely with what the Minister said condemning Iran’s destabilising behaviour and its treatment of dual nationals. I particularly condemn the arrest of our ambassador, Robert Macaire, which was a dreadful act. Having said that, is this Statement not rather one-sided, as the noble Baroness pointed out, in saying that Iran has undermined the JCPOA without equally and first stressing that the US withdrew from the JCPOA and then, even though Iran was in compliance, imposed punitive sanctions depriving Iran of any benefit at all from the agreement? Is it not also rather hollow to claim that Europe has kept its side of the agreement because it has lifted sanctions when, as we all know, the effect of American sanctions on Iran has been that the lifting of European sanctions has been completely ineffective? Trade with Europe has completely collapsed, the currency has collapsed, basic foodstuffs in Iran have increased in price by 100% and poverty has risen to some 30% of the population. It is not surprising that Iran feels that it has got nothing out of the agreement.

The Minister rightly listed all the different respects in and occasions on which Iran has openly and deliberately broken the agreement, but is it not the case that on each occasion Iran has said that the step breaching the agreement would be reversible if Europe was able to make the agreement effective and kept its side of the bargain? Is it not therefore understandable that Iran feels that the ball is somewhat in Europe’s court because Europe has not made the agreement effective?

Lastly, is there not a real danger in invoking the resolution mechanism, whose outcome we know is completely predictable, that we are driving Iran towards leaving the non-proliferation agreement, which it still complies with? It would be a great mistake if that happened.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, on my noble friend’s final point, as I said regarding the listing of the contraventions on the Iranian side, it is right that we, of course, have not taken this action on our own; as I said, we have done so after careful consideration and in line with our partners in Europe—namely, Germany and France. I said during the Statement that, while agencies still have access to Iran, we cannot continue with the state of non-compliance on the Iranian side.

My noble friend rightly raises the issue of the US pulling out of the JCPOA. We have been consistent: we did not agree with the US’s actions, but that was a matter for the US. Having said that, we also strengthened our work with our European partners to ensure that we keep the JCPOA alive. As noble Lords will know, we have been exploring the INSTEX mechanism to see how we can alleviate the impact and implications of the US sanctions on Iranian society, the Iranian people and key sectors such as pharmaceuticals. We continue to work. The mechanism has not yet originated any particular deals, although there are several in the pipeline.

I also fully accept that there are very challenging circumstances facing the Iranian people. That is why we continue to stress to the Iranians—and yes, we raise it with our American allies as well—the importance of the diplomatic channel to reduce tensions and ensure that in the first instance we get Iran back to the table on the JCPOA, as well as, as the Prime Minister said back in September, looking towards the future and the long term to see how we can strike wider deals in this respect.

[Lord Judd (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that, at the very least, there is a significant difference in emphasis between what the Prime Minister said this morning and the Minister’s very measured and careful words in this House? On such a crucial issue, is it not essential that the Government sing from the same sheet and that we know clearly, with absolute certainty, what the Government’s position is? That must mean that the Prime Minister gives it his full approval.

Surely this whole situation brings home that we have no alternative but to stay very close to our European partners, in this as in other matters. Does the Minister also agree that, on the wider issue of non-proliferation across the world as a whole, it is crucial that we do not get into a situation where we appear to be telling the rest of the world what they must do without ourselves giving full regard to the undertakings that we have given in the non-proliferation treaty, and that those undertakings become more important than ever because we have to win collective, international, shared responsibility to handle the whole future of this in the interests of humanity?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the noble Lord. It is important that we stay in lock-step with all our allies, and on this particular issue I think we have shown and demonstrated that. With the rising tensions in the Middle East, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has undertaken a series of shuttle diplomacy and he has been travelling quite regularly to Brussels to speak with European partners. The action that we have taken in invoking this particular mechanism reflects the strength of the relationship within the E3.

The noble Lord raised the Prime Minister’s statement. The Prime Minister is very committed. In the joint statement with President Macron and Chancellor Merkel over the weekend he committed to ensuring that we keep the diplomatic channel open with Iran, and that the mechanism that has been invoked leads to Iran coming back to the table. On ensuring the non-proliferation of nuclear weapons, we remain very committed across the world that the JCPOA is the deal on the table when it comes to Iran. Since its inception it has provided the very mechanism and means to ensure that Iran does not develop a nuclear weapon.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, first, while I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement, would he not agree that it is a little rash to jump to the conclusion that this move to trigger the dispute settlement process will be a positive one which brings positive results? It is far too soon and time alone will show that.

Secondly, would the Minister not agree that the one thing that is least likely to happen is that a way out of the problems we are all in, which are extremely serious, will be found through the dispute settlement procedure? Frankly, that is not credible because it is a confrontational procedure between those who have triggered it and the Iranians, and even more so because a party which has certainly transgressed the JCPOA will not be there. Perhaps the Minister will tell us that the United States will turn up all of a sudden, having walked away from the deal, but I doubt it.

Thirdly, could he tell us whether the Foreign and Commonwealth Office is now giving some serious thought to making best use of any time gained by scaling down the confrontation in this way or any other to addressing some of the serious substantive issues that are at stake? In particular, will it address some of the sunset clauses in the JCPOA, which quite rightly give all of us considerable concern and which will have to be addressed in a timescale that is getting shorter all the time?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that we remain very much committed to the JCPOA. He says that the triggering of this mechanism was perhaps premature. I do not agree. I think we took a very considered position, one which is very much aligned with that of our European partners. The triggering of the provisions within the mechanism is done to bring the respective parties to the JCPOA to the table. In this case, after careful consideration, we believe that this is necessary for the very reasons I listed: the various instances of non-compliance from Iran on Iranian enrichment and so on.

The noble Lord talked about de-escalation and using this as an opportunity to address substantive issues in the region. We remain very much committed to that. When asking his question earlier, my noble friend referred to the detention of the British ambassador. This was totally against any diplomatic convention. It was unacceptable and that point has been relayed to Iran in very clear and unequivocal terms. Notwithstanding this action from Iran, we retain our diplomatic mission there and the strength of our diplomatic engagement. I cannot agree with the noble Lord; we hope and believe that the triggering of this mechanism will result in Iran reconsidering its non-compliance and returning to the table. I stress again that while there may be other deals in the future, the current deal is the JCPOA and we must do our utmost to ensure we sustain it.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, I am very tempted to say that I agree with everything that has been said in response to the Statement and sit down. However, I want to make one or two points. First, inconsistency at the heart of government on a matter of such enormous significance in foreign policy is simply unacceptable. Somehow, somewhere, there has to be consistency. It may not be for the noble Lord to bring that about, but perhaps he might advise those who have some responsibility for it of the general attitude of those who have responded to the Statement.

Secondly, until the United States unilaterally withdrew, Iran was in full compliance. Thereafter, as the noble Lord, Lord Lamont, pointed out, the United States embarked upon a severe programme of sanctions. In addition, there was common talk in Washington that the real purpose was regime change. Given that, is it any wonder that Iran should not continue with what might seem to it to be the only way of exercising influence: namely, failing to fulfil its responsibilities under the treaty?

Not only was the question of sanctions enhanced, there was the threat of regime change and, of course, it culminated in assassination. We must ask ourselves this, if I may put it this way: what possible incentive does Iran have to return to compliance so long as the United States has the avowed intentions which it has previously displayed in such a dramatic and effective fashion?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, what I can say in response to the noble Lord is that we consistently make the point to the United States, in all our exchanges, about the importance of retention. We have a different view on the JCPOA. Obviously, the United States left the JCPOA, and that was very much its unilateral decision. We do not agree with that. We still believe that there is a role for the JCPOA. It has been shown to work. The triggering of the mechanism will, we hope, also allow a continued commitment to the JCPOA.

The important issue in all this is that we need to see a decrease in tensions. The noble Lord talked of Qasem Soleimani; we debated that in your Lordships’ House. I speak for Her Majesty’s Government, and at all times the role we have sought to play in the first instance is one of de-escalation and in the second of ensuring that we keep all diplomatic channels fully open, whether we are talking about the current tensions or the situation around the JCPOA.

[Lord Polak (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the decision to trigger the dispute resolution mechanism. The suggestion from some noble Lords that Iran has kept to its side of the JCPOA in full is deeply questionable. One of the major criticisms of the JCPOA at the beginning was that it allowed Iran to continue its destabilisation of the region, so does the Minister agree that the only way forward is a complete redrafting, with provisions to curtail Iran’s international aggression and financing of terror that were omitted from the original agreement?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that we have triggered this particular mechanism for the reason I reiterated. I do not think that the Statement I repeated from my right honourable friend could be any clearer; it was very clear in the detail. I state again that this was not a UK decision but one that we took in absolute lockstep with our European partners: namely, Germany and France.

We have been deeply concerned by Iran’s continuing destabilising influence in the wider region as well and continue to make that point. My noble friend talked about limitations in the original deal. I have already said during this discussion that there were limitations to that deal. It did not cover certain elements, including ballistic missiles. I have also alluded to the fact—my right honourable friend the Prime Minister also made this point in September—that the JCPOA is the deal that we currently have. There may well be a time in the future when we look at a more all-encompassing deal that ensures that the United States can return to the table as well as Iran. It is the United Kingdom’s view that we will continue to ensure that every element of this deal is sustained and that we do not leave out any avenue that can ensure its retention, but at the same time we will work towards diplomatic solutions to what are rising tensions in the region.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, I of course wish that there be de-escalation, which is absolutely critical. The Government might wish to consider all means by which to achieve that. However, building on the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Lamont, in wishing to de-escalate has sufficient attention been paid to the authorities in Tehran and their view on what they would accept in order to fall back to compliance with what we would rightly call the norms?

On the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, and the noble Lord, Lord Collins, about dual nationals, it will be remembered that a British court has ordered the UK Government to return monies to the Iranians, for reasons that it felt were necessary, for the tank negotiations that fell foul. Can the Minister enlighten the House on what exactly the Government will do to comply with the UK court on this matter? This might help the process and the dual nationals whom everyone is very concerned about.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

On the noble Viscount’s final point, at the moment we are a fair way off discussing those kinds of matters in detail, but he is right to raise the court decision, which remains pending. The fact remains that there is no reason to detain these dual nationals. They have been held, we believe, against every norm of international law and Iran’s repeated failure to recognise dual nationals—British nationals among them—is a major challenge.

The noble Viscount asked whether we have reiterated these points and taken the temperature of the situation with those leaders in Iran. In the last week or so, on 6 January my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary spoke to Foreign Minister Zarif and on 9 January my right honourable friend the Prime Minister spoke to President Rouhani. We have also worked in co-ordination with our European partners, and they have been making their representations. There is a role to play in looking towards a future for Iran that reflects the will of its people, who I am sure want to see Iran’s return. It is a rich country with rich history; the Persian culture has enriched the world. We shall certainly work towards ensuring that, along with those who seek diplomatic solutions and have the right intention for the Iranian people, we see a fully integrated Iran return to the global stage in a manner where it can play its part based on its history and enrich cultures around the world.

However, in ensuring that that happens, the first steps must be about ensuring what happens when you sign an agreement. I accept that there have been pressures from the US withdrawal because of the JCPOA, but that is one member of it and we have retained our commitment to it. Iran’s continued denial, and now non-compliance, has resulted in the action we have taken. But I stress, in everything I have said, the importance of keeping diplomatic channels open and we will continue to stress that.

Sexual Violence Overseas: Treatment of Victims

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 9th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the treatment of British victims of alleged sexual violence in foreign countries, following the recent case in Cyprus.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we take any report of rape or sexual assault seriously. Our staff explain local policing and legal procedures. We can attend the police station with and support victims and ensure that they can access medical care. We also work with specialist support organisations, such as our funded partners, and fund bespoke projects to improve the treatment of victims by authorities in other countries.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

I thank the Minister for his reply. The media reports of this young British woman convicted in Cyprus have caused alarm in many circles. What are Her Majesty’s Government doing to ensure that this does not deter victims in this country coming forward to the police when they need to report something? Secondly, and more specifically on the case of the Cyprus woman, we were in touch with her lawyers yesterday. They are positive about the support given by Her Majesty’s Government but there is the question of what support she will now be given for her appeal to clear her name. What can Her Majesty’s Government do to help her with that?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, on the second question asked by the right reverend Prelate, obviously I cannot go into specific details because it is ongoing. He raised the important issue of ensuring that, because of the experience we have seen from this case, no victim of sexual violence—be it at home or abroad—feels that there is a barrier or, indeed, feels reluctant to come forward. It is clear that if someone is sexually assaulted or raped, they should come forward. Abroad, we will offer full support, as we have done in this case; here in the United Kingdom, I know that my colleagues at the Home Office will take the issue very seriously. If you have been assaulted, come forward and report it.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab)]

My Lords, as a criminal lawyer, I have some concerns about some aspects of this case. Can the Government tell us what advice can be given on expediting the appeal?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Obviously, the noble and learned Lord speaks from experience. I have already alluded to, and I am sure he will respect, the fact that I cannot go into specific detail. I can say that the FCO provides full consular support to any individual who has gone through such an experience. This case was no exception; indeed, we offered full consular support to the individual and her family in both the United Kingdom and Cyprus.

[Baroness Warsi (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend go any further in explaining: what specific support was given to this particular victim and her family; whether, as in other cases, any support was given to the police in investigating this matter; and whether, as well as supporting the appeal process, the Government will make any representation to the Cypriot authorities as to whether it is possible to reopen the original investigation and allegation of rape?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My noble friend asks some important questions. Of course, first and foremost, we welcome the return of the victim. As I said, there is a limit to the detail I can go into but, as the victim’s family has acknowledged, the FCO provided strong support in Cyprus. We are also considering what more we can do with the authorities in Cyprus and in other countries to ensure what we have here, which is a victim-centred approach to the criminal justice process. I know that my noble friend has raised concerns, particularly about some of the processes that the victim was involved in in Cyprus; they are a matter of concern for all of us.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister said in his opening response to the right reverend Prelate that the high commissioner there could, and did, offer support during the investigation. However, reports I have read and reports from my contacts in Cyprus indicate that the young woman—the teenager—involved was questioned by the police for some nine hours with no legal representation. What support did the high commission provide and what representation did it make to address what appears to be a grotesque miscarriage of justice? What advice is being given to young people travelling to places such as Ayia Napa on how they can best safeguard themselves and what they can do if they are victims of sexual violence?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Baroness has raised valid concerns which are being looked at directly, but I cannot go into further detail about the process as it is still ongoing. I assure her that while the particular lady concerned was in Cyprus, full support was offered to her family here in the UK as well as directly to her in Cyprus. The issues around the case are obviously of deep concern. On the noble Baroness’s wider question, we recognise how vulnerable those who have been sexually assaulted in a foreign country can be and therefore we provide support tailored to the individual circumstances of each case. As I said earlier, our approach is victim-led and is based on the person’s needs. For example, we provide information on what professional help is available locally and in the UK, and we are providing funding for a rape crisis organisation to ensure that it can act as a means of support wherever victims are in the world.

[Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top (Lab)]

My Lords, will the Government think about what happens after a court case? My experience over recent years of several organisations working with young women who have been subjected to sexual exploitation, grooming and so on in this country is that once the court case is over, the availability of resources to support those then very damaged young women is missing because the state feels that its responsibilities are finished. Will the Minister have a look at this issue because clearly this young woman and lots of other young women, having suffered what they suffered, will need support for years to come?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the noble Baroness that anyone who has been through any kind of assault or sexual violence needs support. In this case, allegations of rape were raised quite directly. Sexual assault is serious and is not something that ends for the victim once the court case has been resolved. I will certainly take back the helpful remarks made by the noble Baroness. For her information and indeed for the House in general, we also look at how we can improve processes on the ground, so we are now funding specific projects in different countries to train local authorities on issues around language and cultural sensitivities and to train the police in the collection of evidence.

British Citizens: Working Abroad

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 7th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Earl of Clancarty]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what measures they plan to take to protect opportunities to work in Europe for British citizens resident in (1) the United Kingdom, and (2) abroad.

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, protecting citizens’ rights has been a priority for Her Majesty’s Government in our negotiations with the European Union. The withdrawal agreement provides citizens with certainties about their rights, meaning that approximately 1 million UK nationals in the EU can continue to live their lives broadly as they do now. Her Majesty’s Government are committed to agreeing a future partnership with the EU by December 2020. The details, including those on mobility, are a matter for negotiation.

[The Earl of Clancarty (CB)]

My Lords, is the Minister aware of the recent survey indicating that thousands of UK jobs in the seasonal tourism sector have disappeared in the last year alone? Much of our trade in services with Europe, including IT and the creative industries, will not be viable unless the disadvantages of leaving the single market—loss of free movement, uncertainties over the A1 certificate, the cost of moving equipment such as musical instruments—are fully addressed. Are the Government working on a solution? Blue cards are not a solution for the many British workers on contracts who are now deeply worried.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I assure the noble Earl that of course we are working in a very pragmatic fashion with our EU partners. The political declaration, as I have already said, includes a commitment to conclude ambitious arrangements for services and investment that go beyond WTO commitments, build on recent EU free trade agreements and provide new arrangements on key service sectors, including financial services. The noble Earl will also be pleased to know that we have agreed to negotiate visa-free travel for short-term visits and arrangements for the temporary entry and stay of citizens for business purposes in key areas. This will also allow businesses to move their employees and to provide services. We are also considering conditions for entry and stay for purposes including research, study, training and youth exchanges.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister talked about British citizens continuing to live their lives “broadly” as they do now, a word which could carry quite a lot of weight. Can he tell us whether the Government are addressing the issue of British residents who reside in one EU country but have been working across borders in several countries? Of course, free movement rights give them that flexibility. One thinks of translators, interpreters, the musicians that the noble Earl mentioned and those in many other professions. Are the Government addressing the challenge they face in continuing to practise their profession without having to get work permits for every country in which they might be called upon to work at short notice?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble Baroness will know that we have agreed to protect the rights of EU citizens in the UK and we are working with our EU partners to assure UK nationals’ rights in the EU under the withdrawal agreement. Details along the lines of what the noble Baroness suggested are of course very much in the mix in the discussions we are having with the European Union. Issues of residence, the rights of workers and the issues she raised in the music industry, where people are often self-employed, are very much part of the discussions we will continue to have and will be among the details that emerge from the political declaration, as has already been stated.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, it is obvious that this is quite a complex issue, as we have heard. These are people who have spent many years working in EU countries: 750,000 of our citizens are doing that. How confident is the Minister that we will be able to conclude arrangements covering all these complex issues by December of this year?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, there were many who doubted that the withdrawal agreement could be reopened. It was—a new deal was presented which is making its passage through both Houses of Parliament and we hope to agree the first stage of the withdrawal agreement by the end of this month. Yes, we are confident that we have the resources and the people in place and we will continue to work across government, including consulting with key sectors, to ensure that the arrangements that need to be in place by the end of the year are in place.

[Lord Fox (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister has not mentioned mutual recognition of qualifications. This is a huge issue for people working abroad and, indeed, for European citizens working here. Where does the responsibility lie within government for securing that mutual recognition? What work is now under way?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

All parts of government are involved in the discussions covering all aspects of our departure from the European Union. The noble Lord is quite right to raise the issue of professional qualifications. EU professionals resident or frontier working in the UK, or vice versa—UK nationals working in the EU—will continue to have their professional qualifications recognised.

Middle East: Security Update

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 7th January 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

With the leave of the House, I will now repeat a Statement given in another place this afternoon by my right honourable friend the Defence Secretary. The Statement is as follows:

“With permission, Mr Speaker, I would like to make a Statement on the security situation in the Middle East. I have deep regard for the nation of Iran and I chaired the Iran APPG for eight years in the House before joining the Government. It is a wonderful place with a dynamic population. The world owes a great deal to its culture and its history.

However, in recent times, Iran has felt that its intentions are best served through the nefarious use of proxies and the use of subversion as a foreign policy tool. It has provided practical military support to the murderous Assad regime in Syria, stoked conflict in Yemen, armed militia groups in Iraq and repeatedly harassed international shipping in the Strait of Hormuz. It has also shown a total disregard for human rights, holding dual nationals in prison and causing unimaginable suffering to not just those in jail but their families at home. Such behaviour does nothing to enhance Iran’s reputation with its neighbours and has had a seriously destabilising impact in the region.

One of the foremost architects of Iran’s malign activity was the Quds force of Iran’s Revolutionary Guards Corps. One of its commanders and its leading enabler was General Qasem Soleimani who, on 2 January, was killed by a US drone strike. General Soleimani was no friend of the UK or our allies in the region. He was not an advocate of a more peaceful and prosperous Middle East. His clandestine operations saw him supply weaponry to proxy forces in both Iraq and Afghanistan. He encouraged proxies to develop weapons such as improvised explosive devices that killed and maimed UK soldiers and other western forces. Nor should we forget how he fomented instability in places such as Basra where British forces were stationed. The United States Government have asserted that Soleimani organised the strikes on 27 December by militia group Kata’ib Hezbollah which targeted a US military base in Kirkuk, Iraq, and killed a US civilian contractor. The US is confident that Soleimani came to Baghdad to co-ordinate imminent attacks on American diplomats and military personnel.

The UK will always defend the right of countries to defend themselves. The House will want to know that, since October 2019, coalition bases, which contain both US and UK personnel, and the Baghdad International Zone have been attacked 14 times. One attack on the K1 base involved 32 rockets. Our challenge now, however, is to deal with the situations we find ourselves in. The US has consistently shown restraint, even when its right to self-defence was well established. Since the early hours of Friday morning, the Government have responded to these events. Further conflict is in no one’s interests. The only beneficiaries would be terrorists and extremists seeking to use chaos as a cover to advance their abhorrent objectives, so we are urging all people—all parties—to de-escalate as soon as possible.

Meanwhile, the safety and security of British citizens and our interests in the region are of paramount concern. The FCO has strengthened its travel advice to both Iran and Iraq, and will keep it under constant review. We urge British nationals in the region or those intending to travel to regularly check the GOV.UK website for further updates. We have taken other urgent measures to protect British nationals and interests. The Department for Transport is reviewing the threat state and advice to Red Ensign shipping on a daily basis, supported by the MoD. We will issue guidance imminently. At the same time, Defence is changing the readiness of our forces, including having helicopters and ships on standby to assist if the need arises. To ensure the safety and security of our personnel, we have also relocated non-essential personnel from Baghdad to Taji. Coalition forces in Iraq, including British forces, have suspended all training activities and, as part of prudent planning, a small team has been sent to the region to provide additional situational awareness and contingency planning assistance.

On 5 January, Iraq’s Council of Representatives voted to end permissions for coalition activities in Iraq. As the vote is only one part of the process, we are discussing the implications with our Iraqi interlocutors. Today I simply remind this House that the coalition is in Iraq, at the request of the Iraqi Government, to help protect Iraqis and others against the very real threat of Daesh. Our commitment to Iraq’s stability and sovereignty is unwavering and we urge the Iraqi Government to ensure that the coalition is able to continue our vital work countering this shared threat.

The main focus of the UK Government is to de-escalate this issue. None of us wants conflict. None of us wants our citizens, our friends and our allies to be put at risk. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister, from the outset, has spoken with President Trump, President Macron, Chancellor Merkel and President Erdoğan, and will continue to engage all leaders. The Foreign Secretary and I have been talking to our counterparts and only this morning I met His Royal Highness the Saudi Vice-Minister for Defence; in tandem, we are working with the E3 to reboot the JCPOA, the nuclear deal which we believe is a vital step to achieving a more stable Iran. In the coming days, we will be doing all we can to encourage Iran to take a different path. No one should be under any illusion that, long before the death of General Soleimani, Iran had stepped up its destabilising activity in the region. Whether it was targeting dissidents in Europe or hijacking civilian ships, this aggressive behaviour was never going to go unchallenged. Her Majesty’s Government urge Iran to return to the normal behaviour of the country it aspires to be and to resist the urge to retaliate.”

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. This is an exceptionally dangerous situation. Soleimani clearly had a terrible reputation. He had blood on his hands and had played a key part in destabilising the region. The Iranian regime has much to answer for. However, Trump’s action has destabilised a tinderbox region even further. What do the Government understand to be the legal basis—in international law, not US domestic law, as the Foreign Secretary mentioned on Sunday—for this drone strike? Are there any circumstances in which the UK considers it legal to use drones to assassinate a perceived threat? The Statement says that the US “asserted” and “is confident” of its position. That is very interesting language. Does the UK share these views, and does it have evidence for that?

The European route has been to seek to bring Iran in, with engagement through the JCPOA. Trump’s actions may have finally destroyed that. The Statement mentions rebooting the JCPOA. How is this to be done? This is the first major test of the Government’s new foreign policy, which is to remove us from the European Union and to draw closer to the US. The Statement says:

“Our challenge now … is to deal with the situation we find ourselves in.”


That does not sound like we are leading or in control.

Given that the UK is closely allied to the US in Iraq and the Gulf, what explanation has the US given for not informing the UK? Is it the case that they informed only Israel, even though other countries might also be affected? What evidence is there that the US thought through the short, medium and long-term consequences of its actions? Does the UK agree?

Does the Minister agree that this action benefits the hardliners in Iran and Iraq and that the protesters in both those countries, who were seeking a less corrupt, less sectarian way forward, will now have their voices drowned out?

Does the Minister agree that dual nationals, such as Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe, are now in even more difficult circumstances? What comfort can the Government give to her and her family, as well as to our own troops and those working in the region?

The UK and the US base their operations against Daesh, and in relation to Syria, from Iraq. The Government clearly recognise the risk here. What happens if the Iraqi Government decide to implement the parliament’s decision and ask foreign forces to leave? What does this mean for the battle against Daesh?

Some 30% of the world’s oil supply goes through the Strait of Hormuz, and I note what the Statement says. However, does the Minister think that shipping can be adequately protected, as he describes? What alternative routes are there? He will have seen how targeted the attacks on Saudi Aramco were. What is the result of discussions held with the GCC countries about scaling this crisis down? Iran has significant cyber capabilities and has tested these out in attacks on western countries. Is the Minister aware of the Iranian- linked attempt on Parliament, shortly after the US attack?

President Trump has stated that the US has identified 52 sites in Iran to target in the event of Iranian retaliation. Does the UK know what they are? Is the US discussing this with us? Have we sought reassurance that no Iranian cultural sites will be targeted in any future action?

This is a very dangerous moment, when the dangers of the Trump presidency when dealing with the Middle East tinderbox, are clear for all to see. I look forward to comprehensive answers from the Minister, who I know fully understands the huge risks that we all now face.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, for their comments and contributions, particularly the support and words of the noble Lord. They both know—as I am sure all noble Lords do—the importance of restraint and ensuring that we de-escalate this crisis. I reassure the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that, as was said in the Statement and made clear in statements by my right honourable friends the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs and the Secretary of State for Defence, our priority is ensuring that we call on all sides for restraint at this important time.

On ensuring that all multilateral international organisations play a role, when I was preparing to deliver the Statement I noted the statements that were made by the Secretary-Generals of NATO and the United Nations. The noble Baroness referred to the importance of our partners in the Middle East. It is important to stress the need for restraint on all sides: she will have noticed that we continue to work closely with our European partners in the E3 statement that was issued after the meeting. As I said in the Statement, the Prime Minister has spoken to various leaders around the world who are directly involved, including the President of the US and the Iraqi Prime Minister.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, mentioned the important role that the United Kingdom has played and continues to play in bringing stability to Iraq and the wider region. When I visited Iraq 18 months or so ago, I saw the important role the UK was playing in this, as well as the importance of the various UN missions. I am assured that, thus far, the important work of UNITAD continues. This is important in ensuring that we bring to justice those who have committed heinous crimes during the Iraq conflict.

The noble Lord asked about other partners. As noble Lords will know, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has travelled to Brussels and intends to travel to the US later this week. We are keeping directly engaged with the US and other key partners on these issues. He raised the issue of NATO. While it makes its own assessment, as a key player in NATO we will continue to liaise with all NATO partners.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised the importance of safety and security of personnel. I have detailed, to the extent I can, some of the changes we have effected on the ground. Our embassies in Tehran and Baghdad remain open; however, we have taken all necessary steps to ensure the security of our personnel operating in those countries. He asked me to keep the House updated, and I shall seek to do so as we move forward. The important point to emphasise here—I totally agree with the noble Lord—is the importance of de-escalation and bringing down tensions.

I say to the noble Baroness, who asked about the JCPOA, that we have reiterated in our various exchanges, including with Foreign Minister Zarif, the importance of returning to the table on the JCPOA. She will be aware that, before the death of General Soleimani, the Iranians had already increased their non-co-operation: their level of co-operation on the JCPOA had decreased, but we have again stressed the importance of keeping that particular diplomatic door very much open.

The noble Baroness asked about our contacts with our European partners in a post-Brexit Britain. She will be reassured by the fact that we have shown consistency with our previous approach and have worked with E3 partners, namely Germany and France, in issuing statements, and by the fact that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary is visiting Brussels today. That underlines again the importance of that relationship.

The noble Baroness raised concerns, which I share, about the increased influence of hardliners in Iran, as well as the safety and security of dual nationals, which has been a cause of understandable concern in your Lordships’ House. I share her concerns: that is why, to quote the noble Lord, Lord Collins, we are seeking to play a primary and key role in ensuring de-escalation at this crucial stage.

The noble Baroness specifically asked about security for our shipping. I assure her that we have assets in place. I gave a sense or a flavour of the number of assets we have by which we seek to continue to protect the Strait of Hormuz; of course, we are keeping that situation under review.

The issue of cultural sites was raised by both the noble Lord and the noble Baroness. I think we have had a clarification from the US Defense Secretary on this issue, and I am sure that that statement provides reassurance to noble Lords in that respect.

On international co-operation with Arab partners, I again stress that we have seen statements from various Arab leaders, including organisations within the Arab world, which reflect the importance of de-escalation and bringing greater calm to the region.

If there are other specific questions which I have not answered, I will pick up on them and respond to the noble Baroness and the noble Lord in writing.

[The Lord Bishop of Leeds]

My Lords, would the Minister agree that the “Thought for the Day” by the Bishop of Loughborough this morning on BBC Radio 4, available on the Sounds app, shone an important light on this matter? She came to this country as an Iranian refugee following the murder of her brother, and what she was pointing to was that in the context of the immediate crisis we must not lose sight of the fact that Iran has a very rich and long history as a seat of civilisation, and that we should not tar the entire country and culture with one brush.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I thank the right reverend Prelate for his intervention. He quoted the Bishop of Loughborough, and I agree with her. In the Statement, I made the point about the importance of Iran’s rich cultural history. Indeed, I know for a fact that my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Defence has also emphasised this during various visits. As said in the Statement, he headed up the APPG on Iran. While we are looking at this crisis in terms of de-escalation, I am sure it is also not lost, as we reflect on the sombre nature of the exchanges we are having, that today we also learned—and our ambassador has conveyed condolences over this—that during the funeral procession for General Soleimani over 40 people were crushed in the stampede today. We should not forget the human element in these conflicts. For your Lordships’ information, Her Majesty’s ambassador has expressed his condolences to all the families impacted.

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)]

My Lords, I refer to my entry in the register of Members’ interests as the unremunerated chairman of the British Iranian Chamber of Commerce.

I agree with the noble Lord that General Soleimani was obviously no angel and no friend to Britain, although it is worth recalling that he twice fought on the side of the Americans against a common enemy, until America decided that it did not want him. Is not the only way of judging this act to judge whether it makes the world a safer or a more dangerous place? Is it not the case, as the Minister has been hinting, that if the US is forced to withdraw troops from Iraq then the fight against ISIS will be much weakened and ISIS may revive? Is it not also the case that, if Iran sees itself as having been backed into a corner and able to reply only with commensurate action, then the United States is likely to take further action, deterrents will have totally failed and the cycle of violence will be reinforced? Lastly, has not this action very largely united an Iranian population who not so long ago were protesting and rioting against their Government? Can the Minister convince us that there is an American strategy here, or is this just the law of the jungle?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I am not here to answer on behalf of the US Administration. What I can do is talk of the responses of Her Majesty’s Government to the situation on the ground. I agree with the sentiments of my noble friend, who obviously has deep insight into Iran, about the actions we have seen—including the killing of General Soleimani. It is for that reason that we have stressed, and continue to stress, the importance of de-escalating and reducing tensions in this area. He makes the point—I, he and all noble Lords have witnessed the scenes from Iran—that the hardliners in Iran have clearly been given a stronger voice. However, as I said in the Statement and as my noble friend acknowledged, Soleimani was no friend of the West.

We must now deal with the situation in front of us. Therefore, it is important that the UK uses its influence with our partners in Europe through the E3, as I have already said. We are working with the United States and updating regularly; as I have said, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary is travelling to the US and we will seek to keep the House advised of future developments. However, I am sure my noble friend agrees with me that it is now important to call for not just calm but de-escalation from all sides.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, no one here mourns the death of such a man of blood. It is understandable that the Foreign Secretary called for restraint and de-escalation, but does the Minister agree that, in situations such as this, it is often helpful to try to imagine what would happen if the reverse were true? For example, if a US Vice-President or Secretary of State were assassinated by an Iranian or an Iranian proxy in the Middle East, would we call for restraint?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the noble Lord on the importance of restraint. At this time and with the sensitive nature of what is in front of us, it would certainly be inappropriate for me to speculate on situations. I stress again the importance of de-escalation and of keeping diplomatic channels open at all levels.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, will the Minister turn his attention for a moment to northern Iraq and Kurdistan, which I visited last month? In particular, is he aware that reactivated ISIS cells killed more than 30 Peshmerga soldiers during the course of December and that they were simultaneously fighting Iranian-backed proxies—Shabak groups armed by Iran—in Nineveh? Given that the vulnerable minorities they have been protecting, including people such as the Yazidis, are facing further genocide, can the Minister say what we can do to work with the Kurdish regional Government to give them reasonable protection and to do what the noble Lord, Lord Collins, said earlier: bring to justice those responsible for these appalling crimes against humanity and genocide, who believe that they can continue to act in the way they have done with impunity because we are incapable of upholding international law, which is why we descend into cycles of assassination and revenge?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, first, I thank the noble Lord for keeping me updated on various issues during the Christmas break. I expected nothing less in terms of the questions he asked, and I look forward to our more detailed sit-down to discuss some of the issues he has raised.

The noble Lord is quite right to raise the important issue of the situation in northern Syria. He also mentioned the KRI region. First, I will reflect Foreign Office advice. When it comes to the KRI, we are saying that non-essential travel should not be taken up, but, if travel is essential, stability continues to prevail in the KRI and we continue to offer support.

The noble Lord knows the importance of bringing the perpetrators of these crimes to justice. Therefore, during conversations between my right honourable friend the Prime Minister and the Iraqi Prime Minister, we emphasised again that, while we respect the Iraqi Parliament’s decision, we want to ensure both that there is no withdrawal of either US or UK troops, as limited as UK troop numbers are, and that, in a wider respect, the positive impact on the ground of the measures we have taken—in beginning to see accountability and justice for the victims of crimes, particularly those committed by Daesh—is not lost because of these particular actions. I assure noble Lords that we are doing all we can through all necessary channels to keep that very much on the table.

[Viscount Hailsham (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend will know that President Trump and his Secretary of State, Mr Pompeo, justified the drone attack by reference to the principle of self-defence in international law. Will my noble friend tell the House whether the Government have seen any material that justifies that assertion? Furthermore, does my noble friend agree that, if Mr Trump or the American Government were deliberately to use disproportionate force—or deliberately target sites of cultural importance, for that matter—they would be in clear breach of international law?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, on the second point made by my noble friend, again I am sure that he has seen the statement made, I believe, yesterday by Secretary of State Pompeo in which he emphasised how important it was that the actions of the US will adhere to international law. On the issue of taking action in self-defence, as I have said, this was a matter very much for the US and I am not going to second guess from the Dispatch Box that assessment. However, it is certainly our view that, while we do not doubt that there were plans for imminent attacks on American diplomats and military personnel, I should reiterate that, rather than speculate about what has happened, our focus should be on seeking to ensure that we de-escalate at this time.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that, as a result of this reckless unilateralist act by President Trump, Iranian and Russian influence in the region is likely to increase—and what does that do for British influence?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As regards Iranian influence, we have sought to keep our diplomatic channels open and to engage with the Iranian Administration. It is important to ensure, in the situation we are facing, that extremist and terrorist elements in the wider region do not gain greater momentum—that must be the primary concern at this time—and that the alliances that have been forged to date continue to have an effect on the ground. As I saw for myself on my visit to Iraq, there are real and tangible positive measures and steps that have been taken, and achievements on the ground. I hope that those are not lost, and therefore we will continue to engage proactively to ensure that the situation in Iraq does not descend into further turmoil. It is important that we de-escalate, which is why we have called for all sides to look at any further action they may take, because any further action that increases tensions in Iraq will lead only to the very forces mentioned by the noble Lord gaining greater ground—and none of us desires that.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, so far we have been discussing this issue in purely western terms. Does my noble friend agree that in fact the rising powers of Asia have enormous and growing interests and influence in the region? Can he reassure us that, besides consulting those in Washington who have perpetrated this act and besides him visiting Brussels, our Foreign Office officials and his colleagues will be in touch with the real powers in Asia whose interests, as I say, are directly affected by what is happening in Iran and who have a major part to play?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Let me assure my noble friend, who we all know from his time as a Foreign Office Minister, that we are all engaging with key partners to provide reassurance. For example, in my conversations earlier today I spoke directly to the Afghani Foreign Minister. As I mentioned earlier, the Prime Minister has also spoken to President Erdoğan, because obviously Turkey is a real influence in the region. So the short answer is that, yes, we will continue to engage with those who are directly engaged in the conflict, as well as with our wider partners.

[Lord Dear (CB)]

My Lords, it is of course understandable and quite correct that we should be very concerned about the current state of affairs in that part of the world. However, does the Minister agree, first, that in this fractured and potentially very dangerous situation, one of the few bright and positive lights shining in that area is our relationship with the state of Oman—a country I know well both socially and as an official representing this House? It is a long-standing relationship which goes back more than 200 years. Secondly, does he agree that we should wish His Majesty Sultan Qaboos a speedy return to good health?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I agree with the noble Lord and I am sure that other noble Lords will join with me in wishing the Sultan a speedy recovery. Oman has played a key role in the wider region, as we have seen during the Yemen conflict, and we hope that it will continue to do so. It has also been a constructive partner in bringing together different sides after differences arose between Qatar and the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia within the GCC.

[Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale (Lab)]

My Lords, clearly, the events of the last few days will strike terror into the hearts of those hundreds of thousands of Iraqis still displaced as a result of the events in Iraq and Syria over the past 10 to 15 years—many of them in northern Iraq, as the noble Lord, Lord Alton, has already said. As a responsible member of the Security Council, will the UK Government play a role in ensuring that the operations of the United Nations, UNICEF and the other agencies looking after refugee camps—and the progress made there over the last 12 months—can continue somehow under the surface, and that those displaced and still living in refugee camps, in many cases after seven or eight years, will have some relative safety within this overall escalation of tension?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I pay tribute to the work the noble Lord has undertaken; I know he has visited Iraq and had a very constructive visit on the ground. I assure him that, yes, we are working through all organisations. As the Minister for the United Nations, I assure him that we are very keen to ensure that the gains made through various UN efforts—not just the humanitarian support we have provided but, in particular, as I referred to earlier, the UNITAD mission, which is bringing justice; this point was point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Alton—are sustained. Indeed, one of the first questions I raised was about the mission’s continuity. Through the Iraqi Government—my right honourable friend the Prime Minister stressed this point to the Prime Minister of Iraq during his conversation with him yesterday—we are certainly seeking to ensure that the gains we have made on the ground, both through our bilateral relationship and, importantly, through the various UN missions, are not just sustained but strengthened at this time.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, now that the JCPOA—recklessly abandoned by the US President—hangs by a thread, does the Minister agree that the 2020 Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty Review Conference will be absolutely crucial in restoring trust, and that the UK must play a serious and major role and use that process to demonstrate commitment to genuine nuclear disarmament, as demanded by our commitments under the nuclear non-proliferation treaty?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I have already talked about the importance of retaining the JCPOA. The noble Baroness says it is hanging by a thread; it is. Although the US has walked away from that agreement, we retain solidarity with our European partners in sustaining the JCPOA and continue to leave the door open on diplomacy with Iran, because we believe that while it is not a perfect deal—far from it; it does not cover certain types of missiles—it provides some degree of stability, and we hope we can return to it. On the wider issue of non-proliferation, it is for the whole world to reflect on its importance and its role in this respect. I am sure we will continue to play a leading part in different international fora in ensuring a more peaceful world around us.

[Lord Pickles (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend has announced a number of reviews; I wonder if I could suggest an additional review. Given that he has rightly identified the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps as a source of instability in the region and that it has consorted with a terrorist organisation both in the region and in Europe, may we also review and consider whether we should join our American allies in proscribing this organisation? This would send a clear signal to Iran that the normalisation of relations cannot be conducted through a terrorist organisation.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

First, I agree with my noble friend that Her Majesty’s Government do not and will not seek to be associated with any terrorist organisation. We condemn all acts of terrorism, wherever perpetrated and whoever the perpetrator. On my noble friend’s specific question about proscribing this organisation, I have already said what our view of the organisation is. If it meets the requirements of the criteria for proscribing an organisation, I am sure it will be looked at at the appropriate time.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

Can the Minister confirm how far British forces are able to operate autonomously in the Gulf? I have been led to understand that the evacuation of British forces on the ground in Iraq depends on American support. I note that the air officer commanding is embedded in a US airbase and I understand that British ships are part of the US-led task force. Are we, in effect, embedded in whatever the Americans do, or can we take back control, to coin a phrase?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord will know from his time at the Foreign Office that we work closely with our allies, and the United States is a key ally in our operations in Iraq. I am not going to go into any particular measures that have been taken, suffice to say that we and the US have made it clear to Iraq that the gains made on the ground have been achieved because of the operations of both US and UK forces, as well as other personnel. We hope that, through discussions, the stability that has been achieved will continue.

Intelligence and Security Committee Report

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 5th November 2019 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign and Commonwealth Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat in the form of a Statement the Answer to an Urgent Question asked in another place on the publication of the Intelligence and Security Committee’s report on Russia. The Statement is as follows:

“The ISC provides invaluable scrutiny and oversight of the work of the intelligence community to Parliament, so I am grateful to the committee for conducting this timely inquiry into our work on Russia. Russia’s reckless behaviour in Salisbury and Amesbury shows that now more than ever we cannot afford to be complacent about that Russian threat.

Because the ISC deals with matters of national security and intelligence, its reports always contain sensitive information, so it is entirely right that reports such as these go through an intensive security review before publication. This report is one of a number of ISC reports that the Government are currently considering. The current length of time that this report has been with the Government is not unusual as this has averaged around six weeks for reports published in recent years, and three to four weeks for a response to be forthcoming from the Government.

For example, the details of the CT attacks review and the 2017-18 annual report were sent together to No. 10 on 12 October 2018. We were asked to respond 10 days later on 26 October. We responded on 8 November and then the checked, proof-read report was published on 22 November 2018. Similarly, the details of the detainees report was sent to No. 10 on 10 May 2018. Again, the ISC asked for a response in 10 working days on 24 May. We responded on 30 May and then the checked, proof-read report was published on 12 June 2018.

In both cases, the process took approximately six weeks because by law it is imperative that this process is thorough. In accordance with the JSA 2013, the impact of releasing sensitive information must be carefully considered by the Prime Minister on the advice of civil servants. We cannot rush this process at risk of undermining our national security.

There is no set timeline within the MoU with the committee for the Government to clear such reports for publication. Under the same memorandum, there is no set timeline for a response, nor is such a deadline set in the governing legislation. I want to assure the House that the committee is well informed of this process, which is continuing along the standard parameters that apply before every publication. Once the process has been completed, we will continue to keep all relevant parties and the House informed”.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, as the noble Earl, Lord Howe, knows, the feelings of this House were made perfectly clear yesterday: this report should be laid before Parliament today. There is no doubt about that. It affects matters highly relevant to the next period of general election campaigning and it is vital that the public and this House know the contents of this report.

Perhaps I may ask the Minister a straightforward question: has the Prime Minister read the report? If the Prime Minister chooses to withhold this information from the public until after the election, when it is eventually published—which it will be—how will he tell UK voters that he was acting in their interests and not his own?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, first, as I said, the Prime Minister is acting within the orders laid down. This is not a formality. The Prime Minister’s approval for the publication is vital. As I am sure the noble Lord knows, it is a statutory requirement within the JSA 2013. A report such as this is reviewed by the relevant senior officials within government before going to the Prime Minister for final approval.

As I said in the repeat of the Urgent Question, the committee is well informed of the process. I shall not comment further on the process, apart from to say that the Prime Minister is considering the report.

[Lord Beith (LD)]

My Lords, in 10 years on the Intelligence and Security Committee I became familiar with the extreme care that the agencies and the Cabinet Office take when seeking redaction of anything whose publication might imperil national security. Does the Prime Minister want to substitute his own inexperienced judgment at this stage for the judgment of those agencies and the Cabinet Office? Has he some other reason for delaying the report—perhaps something to do with his complicated relationship with President Trump—or does he simply not want anything that might embarrass him to be published at this stage, in which case that is not a provision that the Act makes?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I respect that the noble Lord speaks with insight and experience on this matter, but I am sure that insight and experience lends itself to the fact that the Prime Minister needs to consider the report submitted to him. As I said in response to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, this is a formality. It is enshrined in legislation and he is doing just that. Any other thing is mere speculation.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, while I entirely agree that this report should be published in the public interest, and I reinforce what has been said, does my noble friend agree that it would be wrong to see the publication of the report as an act of hostility towards Russia? Many of us deeply regret the fact that the Russians were not invited to the D-day celebrations this year. They should certainly be invited to the celebrations on 7 and 8 May next year. They lost 26 million people in the Second World War. While it is important that we are correctly informed of what they are up to at the moment, we should not forget our historical debt.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I hear what my noble friend says. I am sure I speak for everyone in your Lordships’ House when I say that we all should pay tribute to those who lost their lives during the Second World War, battling Nazi aggression across Europe, and to the many Russian civilians who lost their lives. I reiterate to my noble friend that our differences and disagreements with Russia are not with the Russian people. However, we have seen Russia commit aggressive actions. As I am sure my noble friend acknowledges, Russia committed an act right here on UK soil in Salisbury and should be held to account for it. We have been asking for its co-operation on this matter. On the wider issue of talking to Russia on important security issues, I, as Minister for the United Nations, reassure my noble friend that we continue to engage with Russia on important issues of global affairs in fora such as the UN Security Council.

[Baroness Whitaker (Lab)]

My Lords, in view of the Government’s answer to the questions on this subject yesterday, can the Minister give the House a categorical assurance that there is nothing in the report that embarrasses the Government in any way?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As my noble friend made clear, and as I have repeated today, this is a sensitive report. It is important that it goes through the full process. That is exactly what is taking place, in accordance with legislation. The Prime Minister will respond accordingly. I shall not add any other comment to those I have already made.

[Baroness Coussins (CB)]

My Lords, I am sure the report may well be sensitive but, as I understand it from the exchanges in this House yesterday, all the relevant security agencies have already given their approval for publication. Why does the Prime Minister not have confidence in their judgment?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

First, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister and this Government have total confidence in our agencies, which do a sterling job in keeping us safe. According to law, however, it is not for those agencies to comment. The Prime Minister provides the final approval after taking all matters into consideration. That is the process being followed.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a former member of the Intelligence and Security Committee. Does the Minister not understand that hiding behind the customary approach has led substantially to a belief that there is something in the report that the Government do not want published in the course of a general election? If that charge ultimately proves correct, the Government will necessarily suffer grave embarrassment for their approach to this matter.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

Again, the noble Lord has great insight and I am sure he would share my view that this is not about hiding but about following due process. In the Answer to the Urgent Question that I repeated, I reiterated that this is not unusual or the only report currently being considered by No. 10 and the Prime Minister. All that is being done is that due process is being followed. The Prime Minister takes his responsibility very carefully and he will give approval for publication in due course.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare an interest, having been the deputy chairman of the JIC for three years, director of naval intelligence for three years, chief of defence intelligence for three years and Security Minister for three years. It seems that usual procedures are for the obedience of fools. This seems a slightly different report. While I would be the first to say that we must never give away any of our country’s secrets, I do not believe that in this case there is any likelihood of that. This has a nuance of something else. By holding it back, we are creating an area of uncertainty and a feeling that something is being hidden. Will the Minister go back and ask again whether the Prime Minister could read the report—I do not believe he has from what the Minister has said—and then, having read it, perhaps make a rapid decision to have it released?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

The noble Lord knows that I respect his insight and experience greatly, but I reassure him that more is being said about this than is warranted by the facts. Due process for a report is being followed—this is not unusual practice. As I indicated in the original Statement, the standard procedure is being followed, and the Prime Minister is giving the report due consideration. The noble Lord knows how much I respect his opinion. I agree with him about the importance of issues of national security. The Government take their responsibility seriously, as does the Prime Minister, and it is right that he gives this matter due consideration.

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, will the noble Lord consider this point? Even if the Prime Minister, following the Act, refuses to publish the report today, can the noble Lord assure the House that if there are sensitive matters in terms of Russian interference that require security services and other agencies of state to take necessary precautions in the six weeks leading up to the next election, they will do so, irrespective of whether the report is published?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, the noble Baroness uses the word “refuses”, but there is no refusal to publish; we are merely following due process. On her latter point, I reassure her that, as noble Lords who have served in various offices of state, particularly at the Foreign Office or the Home Office, as security Ministers or Ministers dealing with counterterrorism will know, this is not a case of waiting for the publication of a particular report. If there is a threat to the United Kingdom, we will deal with it there and then with the robustness that it deserves, with the Government working hand in glove with the security agencies.

[Lord Davies of Stamford (Lab)]

Clearly, one of Mr Putin’s main priorities is to weaken NATO on any occasion that he can. He is clearly working very hard on Turkey at present, and some people are saying that he may well have some success in that direction. What is the Government’s strategy for dealing with this threat?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

As the noble Lord rightly points out, Turkey is a member of NATO. We continue to use NATO channels and, importantly, we have been talking directly to Turkey. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister has spoken to President Erdoğan a number of times over the past few weeks, and my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has spoken to the Foreign Minister of Turkey on matters of bilateral importance and on the situation in Syria. We take Turkey’s membership of NATO very seriously. NATO has kept the peace across Europe since the Second World War. As the noble Lord points out, it is important that NATO’s commitment continues, and Turkey is an important part of that alliance.