(1 day, 8 hours ago)
Commons ChamberRead Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Dr Simon Opher (Stroud) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
Can I associate the Government side of the House with your tributes to Lord Wallace and Lord Flight, Mr Speaker? I pay tribute to Captain Philip Gilbert Muldowney of the 4th Regiment Royal Artillery, who died on 25 January. He was an outstanding young officer. I convey the condolences of the whole House to his friends and family.
I also inform the House—as you know, Mr Speaker—that my hon. Friend the Armed Forces Minister is in the Norwegian High North on reservist training. When we said we would boost the reserves, this is the Defence team delivering in person.
Turning to the question, my message to Great British businesses of all sizes is that we want the UK to be the best place in the world to start and grow a defence business. That is why we have set a target to spend an extra £2.5 billion with SMEs by 2028. That is an uplift of 50%. This is a Labour Government delivering for defence and delivering for Britain.
Dr Opher
Impcross, a company in my constituency of Stroud, is the sole supplier of flight-critical parts to the Typhoon aircraft and a key supplier for the Vanguard submarine fleet. It is on the verge of collapse, and His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs is filing to wind it up, after the owners were prohibited from selling their business on the grounds of national security and sovereign capability. What support is the Secretary of State offering to critical suppliers that are struggling financially, and will he meet me to discuss what steps we can take to support this company?
John Healey
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for championing Impcross in his constituency. I think he will accept that it is right that when British companies deliver the sort of sovereign UK capabilities he mentions that we scrutinise hard any sale to foreign firms. Impcross does indeed play an important role in the Typhoon and F-35 supply chains, and my hon. Friend the Minister for Defence Readiness and Industry would be happy to meet him.
Paul Holmes (Hamble Valley) (Con)
Domo Tactical Communications in my constituency manufactures drones and communications equipment used around the world. It is having some problems engaging with the Ministry of Defence on sovereign capability, and the previous Minister of State for Defence Procurement was due to visit the company in my constituency, but that meeting has since fallen through since the reshuffle. The Minister confirmed on 25 November that he would visit. Can I ask that the meeting is arranged as soon as possible, please?
John Healey
The hon. Gentleman points to a firm in his constituency, and it is true that for too long too many small firms have felt locked out of MOD contracts. It is also true that the last Government, his Government, missed their own targets for SME defence support. Our new office for small business growth, which opened its doors for the first time last week, will help turn that around. At the risk of overburdening my hon. Friend the Minister for Defence Readiness and Industry, I am sure that he would be willing to meet the hon. Gentleman.
Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab)
UK defence SMEs remain essential to safeguarding our national security, and while drones remain an essential part of modern warfare, so are helicopters. Yet The Times has reported that our sovereign capability to produce military helicopters could now be under threat because of Government indecision as to whether we actually need helicopters. Apparently, the Treasury has deemed that they may not be essential to operations going forward. Can the Secretary of State confirm whether it is the Ministry of Defence or the Treasury that decides on defence procurement priorities? Also, can he clarify when the decision to award the medium-lift helicopter contract will finally be made?
John Healey
My hon. Friend and his Committee know a great deal more about this than The Times does. He will know that a competitive contract process is under way for the new medium-lift helicopter. He will also know that we are working flat out to finalise the defence investment plan. And he will know that, as part of that plan, we are dealing with a programme of record—a previous commitment to equipment—that was hugely overcommitted, underfunded and, in some cases, unsuited to the threats we face. For the first time in nearly 18 years, the Ministry of Defence is taking a line-by-line approach to building up our plans for the future.
Adam Dance (Yeovil) (LD)
Does the Minister recognise that many small and medium-sized enterprises in the defence sector are supported by bigger defence firms? Companies such as Honeywell operate on the Leonardo site in Yeovil. Does he therefore accept that, if bigger defence firms such as Leonardo cannot get contracts like the one for the new medium-lift helicopter, we risk losing not just Leonardo but smaller defence firms, too?
John Healey
Firms such as Leonardo are getting defence contracts. I was in Edinburgh just the week before last to award a £450 million contract to Leonardo for a really important part of upgrading our Typhoon jets for the future. Of course, the hon. Gentleman is right that the supply chain to smaller and medium-sized firms is often mediated by primes such as Leonardo, which is why it is important that, since the election, we have let over 1,100 major contracts in defence, 84% of which have gone to British-based firms.
James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)
I associate the Opposition with the condolences expressed to the families of Lord Wallace, Lord Flight and, of course, Captain Philip Muldowney.
Last June, from the Dispatch Box, the Secretary of State promised to deliver the defence investment plan by the autumn. He failed to do so. At our previous oral questions in December, he promised to work “flat out” to deliver the DIP by the end of the year. He failed to do so. With continual dither and delay, it is no surprise that reports last month indicated the worst sentiment among UK defence SMEs for 20 years. The DIP is well overdue, so can the Secretary of State confirm that it will finally be published this month?
John Healey
We are working flat out to complete the DIP, and the hon. Gentleman above all, having been responsible for defence procurement in the last Government, will appreciate just how overcommitted his own programme is. He will appreciate the truth of his former boss saying that, over 14 years, the Conservatives had “hollowed out and underfunded” our armed forces. We will deal with that overcommitment, we will deal with the underfunding and we will deal with the fact that his plans were unsuited to many of the threats we face.
James MacCleary (Lewes) (LD)
We all know that we must urgently increase defence spending, but we are not hearing many ways to get it moving right away without harming British security in other ways. Slashing international development aid or investment in renewable energy, for instance, is just robbing Peter to pay Paul.
The Chief of the Defence Staff has warned that there is a £28 billion funding shortfall, so I want to offer the Secretary of State a practical, costed way to close much of that gap. Defence bonds would raise £20 billion over the next two years and get investment straightaway into capability and the industrial base, including the SMEs we rely on. Will the Secretary of State give this proposal serious consideration as part of a clear, funded plan to plug the funding gaps and get defence investment moving?
John Healey
I remember when the hon. Gentleman’s predecessor stood in this House after the election to argue, like the hon. Member for South Suffolk (James Cartlidge) did, for this country to invest 2.5% of GDP by 2030—the hon. Member for South Suffolk called for it 13 times before the Prime Minister said, a year ago, we would do it three years earlier.
We will look at any way of raising the level of investment going into defence, but the hon. Member for Yeovil (Adam Dance) could start by recognising that this Government have made a commitment to record investment in defence—the largest increase since the end of the cold war. I note in passing that he seems to be against how we will fund this to reach 2.5% and 2.6% next year.
Several hon. Members rose—
Mr Speaker
We are still on Question 1, so it would be useful if Members can help me.
Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)
Rachel Taylor (North Warwickshire and Bedworth) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
Three weeks ago I was in Kyiv. I saw for myself the savagery of Putin’s brutal assault on the Ukrainian people and I saw also their extraordinary defiance. Next week I will co-chair the 50-nation strong Ukraine defence contact group in NATO, and the UK is providing more military support now than ever before, and we will continue to stand united in this House, will continue to stand united in this country, and will stand with Ukraine for as long as it takes.
Mr Perkins
The Defence Secretary is absolutely right to spell out the strength of our commitment but there is increasing concern about the extent to which China is propping up both the economic and military capabilities of Mr Putin and his barbaric regime, so can the Secretary of State tell me what his latest assessment is of China’s contribution to Putin’s war machine and what steps we are taking to ensure the international community remains united?
John Healey
My hon. Friend is right to raise this, and as a nation and a Government the UK will not hesitate to act against those supplying and funding Putin’s war economy. We have sanctioned a range of organisations that operate in third countries over economic and military support for Russia, including 50 Chinese companies. We will continue to work across other nations with other nations and to bolster the support for Ukraine and the principles of the UN charter.
Rachel Taylor
In North Warwickshire and Bedworth, many, like Felicitas in Water Orton, have welcomed Ukrainian refugees into their homes and have stood by Ukraine, just as this Labour Government have. Meanwhile, Reform-led Warwickshire county council has removed the Ukrainian flag from county hall despite public protest. Given the ever-growing threats of Russian aggression, what steps is the UK taking to strengthen its anti-submarine warfare capabilities?
John Healey
My hon. Friend is right that politicians of any party are judged on what we do, not just what we say, and the performance of Reform-led councils will certainly come home to roost, I suggest, for their party. But my hon. Friend is right: in this new era of Russian threat, we must ensure that our Royal Navy has the innovation it needs to detect, to track and to deter threats beneath the waves, and so today we have announced a new £40 million contract with a British-based SME to buy new sonobuoys, exactly to be deployed and used beneath the waves to track Putin’s subs.
Rishi Sunak (Richmond and Northallerton) (Con)
Our Ukrainian friends want not just to physically rebuild after this devastating war, but to recover with a modernised, reformed economy that can attract investment and support their entrepreneurial population. This is something Britain can help with, given our strengths in defence and technology and, indeed, as a global financial centre. So may I ask the Government to fully lean into these efforts alongside our allies, the International Monetary Fund, the World Bank and the private sector, because an economically strong Ukraine is good not just for Ukraine’s future security, but for ours as well?
John Healey
The right hon. Gentleman is entirely right: a strong Ukraine is the key to a long-term secure Europe. He is also right that British defence, British innovation and British financial muscle can help Ukraine in the medium term. I think he would also recognise that we can contribute to Ukraine in a unique way, having been, since the start of Putin’s brutal invasion, Ukraine’s closest and most reliable ally under both Governments.
Caroline Voaden (South Devon) (LD)
As we approach the fourth anniversary of Russia’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine this month, with reports that Russian troops have killed 12 people and injured 17 others after launching a drone strike on civilians just yesterday, the brutality of Putin’s war shows no sign of abating. So can the Secretary of State confirm that the UK will not follow any US lead that undermines Ukraine’s sovereignty or territorial integrity, and will he commit to maintaining Britain’s military support at current levels or above, ensuring that decisions about Ukraine’s future remain with Kyiv, not with Washington or Moscow?
John Healey
Ukraine’s sovereignty and territorial integrity is at the heart of our determination to stand with Ukraine, and we are determined to step up our support for Ukraine. The House will recognise the brutal attack on those mineworkers, who were going to work to mine the coal that keeps their own Ukrainian citizens warm in this period of unprecedented cold in Ukraine.
Henry Tufnell (Mid and South Pembrokeshire) (Lab)
The Minister for Defence Readiness and Industry (Luke Pollard)
Pembrokeshire is at the heart of Britain’s defence future, and I am excited about the opportunity for local people. To help deliver that, I am proud that this Labour Government are working with the Labour Government in Wales on progressing the defence growth deal for Wales, which will help prove that defence is an engine for growth right across Wales.
Henry Tufnell
I welcome the Government’s increased investment in the defence sector in Pembrokeshire; it represents a real opportunity for businesses and the local community, with good, well-paid jobs and strong local supply chains all strengthening our national security. Can the Minister set out what engagement he has had with the local supply chain, as well as any discussions regarding the new munitions and energetics factory in Milford Haven?
Luke Pollard
Since I met my hon. Friend, we have been discussing how we can not only roll out faster the new munitions factories that the Government have committed to deliver but support growth in skills, and our £182 million for skills in the defence industrial strategy includes skills funding for Wales. The defence growth deal provides the opportunity to uplift skills for defence right across Wales, and I am happy to continue our conversations on how that can benefit my hon. Friend’s constituents in Pembrokeshire.
Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
As the strategic defence review sets out, the High North is becoming more important to the UK and our NATO allies, as it becomes more accessible through climate change. We have Royal Navy deployments in the High North and Royal Marines undertaking cold weather training in Norway, as well as Ranger exercises in Sweden and Finland. We will continue to step up on Arctic security alongside our NATO and JEF allies.
Mr Carmichael
May I thank you, Mr Speaker, for your words about the late Lord Wallace of Tankerness? Jim Wallace was not just my predecessor in this House; he was a friend and, in fact, my London flatmate for many years. I am sure that his family and all those who mourn his passing, especially in the Northern Isles, will appreciate your acknowledgment of his contribution. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”]
Through the years of the cold war, the RAF radar station at Saxa Vord in Unst was the frontline of our nation’s defences to the north. That was drawn down 20 years ago, and it is now home to the Shetland spaceport. We have seen the recent activities of the Russian tanker Yantar and the interception of the Bella 1. With space being identified as a priority in the strategic defence review, will the Government now reassess the significance of Shetland and its waters as we look to the developing situation in the far north?
John Healey
We deeply value the role that Shetland—and Scotland in general—plays to reinforce the security of the United Kingdom. That is demonstrated by the fact that there are 9,500 full-time troops in Scotland; the fact that there are around 3,000 civilian defence personnel based in Scotland; and the fact that, as a Government, in the last year we put over £2 billion into the Scottish economy to support defence and the role that Scotland plays in general. It is not only part of keeping this country safer but of defence driving economic growth throughout the UK.
Torcuil Crichton (Na h-Eileanan an Iar) (Lab)
Along with that of the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael), my constituency has an obvious interest in the High North and the defence of the western approaches. I welcome the £40 million investment in anti-submarine sonobuoys and the Atlantic Bastion operation’s defence of our subsea cables, but can the Minister give us a similar assurance on the integrity of cables and communications between our islands across the Pentland Firth, the Minch, the Irish sea and even the Isle of Wight?
John Healey
My hon. Friend quite rightly points to a growing level of Russian activity in particular that monitors and potentially threatens our critical undersea infrastructure. He will see the way in which we have demonstrated that we see, understand and track those Russian threats. We are working, particularly together with JEF allies, to deal with those threats, and we will step that up further in the months ahead.
Ayoub Khan (Birmingham Perry Barr) (Ind)
The Minister for Defence Readiness and Industry (Luke Pollard)
The US remains the UK’s principal defence and security partner, and our co-operation on defence, nuclear capability and intelligence remains as close and effective as any anywhere in the world, keeping Britain safe in an increasingly dangerous environment. As close friends, we are not afraid to have difficult conversations when we need to. Friends turn up for each other, as we did for the US in Afghanistan, and friends are also honest with each other, as the Prime Minister has set out.
Ayoub Khan
Will the Minister and the Secretary of State consider diverting defence spending away from programmes that do not truly protect the British people? Our nuclear deterrent now consumes nearly a third of the defence budget through Trident, a system that cannot be launched without US approval. In pursuing nuclear deterrence and mutually assured destruction, we have drained funding from conventional forces and neglected the diplomacy and development that actually prevents conflicts. Does the Minister believe that prioritising nuclear defence over reducing tensions, ending conflicts and promoting peace genuinely delivers security for our people, and if so, can he explain why?
Luke Pollard
I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question; it comes from a point of view that is different from that of many people in this House and in the wider public. Our nuclear deterrent is operationally independent; the only person who can authorise its firing is the Prime Minister. It is a part of our security apparatus, which keeps us safe every single day, and has done for decades. As a Government, we are continuing to invest in our nuclear deterrent, just as we are investing in jobs and skills right across the country that keep us safe every single day. Our relationship with the United States is a key part of that, but we will also continue to invest in our relationships with our other allies, especially around Europe.
Peter Prinsley (Bury St Edmunds and Stowmarket) (Lab)
In Bury St Edmunds, we have many US servicemen from Lakenheath who are living off-base. They are a huge asset and greatly welcome. Does the Minister agree that the US remains our most essential ally, and will he join me in expressing gratitude for the service of those brave US servicemen and women, who are so important for our security?
Luke Pollard
There are thousands of US personnel stationed in Britain. Their presence here helps keep us safe, as well as protecting American interests. We will continue to work closely with our US allies—it is important to do so—and will continue to invest in deepening the security partnership with personnel based in the United Kingdom, to keep us safe in these more dangerous times.
David Reed (Exmouth and Exeter East) (Con)
The Government now admit that they cannot ratify the Chagos treaty without first amending the UK-US agreement on Diego Garcia. Currently, that binding agreement requires Chagos to remain under UK sovereignty until at least 2036. Can the Minister confirm that if the United States does not agree to amend that agreement, the UK would be in breach of international law? More importantly, does this not mean that the Chagos giveaway deal is now dead in the water?
Luke Pollard
I am sorry that the shadow Minister missed my concluding remarks at the end of the Opposition day debate on the subject last week. Not once did he say why his Government started that deal; nor did he give details of the preparatory work that his Government were supposed to do to answer his own question. This deal secures the future of that UK-US base. We will continue working closely with our American allies to progress the deal, and will continue those conversations, but I am afraid that all the shadow Minister is asking for is more uncertainty. We are securing the future of that base; he is just talking it down.
Max Wilkinson (Cheltenham) (LD)
The Minister for Defence Readiness and Industry (Luke Pollard)
We entered negotiations on SAFE participation in good faith; however, no agreement was possible that met our national interests. We will continue to explore co-operation with the EU and its member states that strengthens European security and underpins our NATO-first policy. We are pleased that the Government have been able to conclude new defence partnerships with our European partners, including France and Germany.
Max Wilkinson
Does this not go back to the key problem that faces us as a nation, which is the failed Brexit bestowed upon us by the previous Government and their friends in the Reform party? Ministers have my sympathy as they try to unpick this mess, but they are going too slowly. Brexit is clearly the biggest barrier to us participating in this scheme. Is it not now obvious that our best economic interests and our national security are best served by a more rapid reintegration with the European Union?
Luke Pollard
The biggest security threat facing the United Kingdom is Russia. We are responding to that by deepening our alliances right across the NATO alliance, especially with our European friends, and we will continue to do so. We were not able to conclude the SAFE negotiations in a manner consistent with the objectives we set when we started that work, but we will continue to work with our European friends, because they are also our NATO allies. Their security is our security, and we take that very seriously.
Mr Calvin Bailey (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab)
Building European strategic autonomy is vital to deterring Putin from making further attacks on us, but that is completely undermined by attacks on NATO—the bedrock of our security—by the Green party. Does my hon. Friend agree that when our alliances are undermined for superficial political gain, the Green party is, in essence, doing the work of Putin?
Luke Pollard
My hon. Friend is right. In the space of one minute, the Green party leader veered from reforming NATO to pulling out of it altogether. The era of growing threat is far too serious for this kind of student-union, “make it up as you go along” politics. The only person cheering at the rank amateurism of the Green party leader is sat in the Kremlin. Labour is the party of NATO, and we will stand by our steadfast support for the alliances that keep us all safe every single day.
James MacCleary (Lewes) (LD)
It was reported last night that the Prime Minister wants a closer defence partnership with Europe, and that last November’s talks on UK access to the EU’s €150 billion SAFE defence fund have collapsed. France reportedly drove the impasse by demanding an inflated price for UK entry, despite many EU partners wanting to open the fund up to UK participation. As the UK is Europe’s largest defence producer and a unique security partner, not just another third country, will the Secretary of State reopen negotiations? Will he urge the Prime Minister to raise this matter directly with President Macron—perhaps in their reported WhatsApp group—and publish the Government’s cost-benefit analysis for joining SAFE, including the entry price that they judge to be acceptable?
Luke Pollard
I, too, want a closer defence partnership with Europe. That is why we set that out in the Prime Minister’s announcement on the EU reset. We will continue working closely with not just the European Union, but European Union member states, the majority of which are NATO members. That will support their security. We are an important player on the international defence scene, and it is important that UK businesses are able to access markets, not just for the purposes of economic growth, but because that keeps European Union member states safe.
Catherine Fookes (Monmouthshire) (Lab)
John Whitby (Derbyshire Dales) (Lab)
The Minister for Veterans and People (Louise Sandher-Jones)
Veterans across this country are benefiting from record levels of investment. The new veterans strategy celebrates our remarkable veterans as a vital national asset; there is £50 million for Operation Valour, and £12 million for the reducing veteran homelessness programme, alongside Operations Courage, Restore, Fortitude, Ascend and Nova. We are committed to ensuring that our veterans can easily access the support that they deserve when and where they need it.
Catherine Fookes
Veterans in my constituency benefit from the stellar Monmouthshire veterans support hub in Abergavenny. Such organisations, and the volunteers who keep them running, are invaluable to our communities. We also have excellent branches of the Royal British Legion, and a veterans-informed GP service in Monmouth. As the Government’s Valour programme gets under way, will the Secretary of State accompany me when I next visit the Monmouthshire veterans hub, not only to sample its brilliant breakfast fry-up, but to see brilliant examples of what can be achieved by these support hubs?
Louise Sandher-Jones
It is truly wonderful to hear about the great work being done in my hon. Friend’s constituency to support veterans. Far be it from me to get between the Secretary of State and a fry-up, but if I can, I may take his place on a visit.
John Whitby
What assessment has the Minister made of the adequacy of housing provision for military veterans, particularly those with service-related injuries or disabilities, in rural areas such as Derbyshire Dales, where there is severe pressure on our affordable and supported housing stock?
Louise Sandher-Jones
My hon. Friend raises a very important point. Those veterans who choose to resettle in rural areas may face additional challenges in accessing the services that they deserve. This Government are committed to reducing veterans’ homelessness, and I note the £12 million that we have spent to do so.
Lincoln Jopp (Spelthorne) (Con)
Thank you, Mr Speaker.
Whose job is it to protect and enhance the moral component of fighting power?
Louise Sandher-Jones
I wish the hon. and gallant Member a happy birthday.
Protecting the moral component of fighting power is a duty on those of us who have the huge privilege of serving as Ministers in this Government. I am sure that every officer will know that they have a role to play as well.
Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)
The Veterans’ Commissioner for Wales has said that support for veterans to tackle
“substance abuse, mental health crisis and residential services do not exist within NHS Wales as they do in NHS England”.
What steps is the Minister taking to work with the commissioner and the Welsh Government to improve access to essential services? Will she encourage veterans to attend my event in Caernarfon on Sunday, which will bring together a host of key support organisations?
Louise Sandher-Jones
I echo what the right hon. Lady says in promoting her event; she is doing an excellent job. Of course, my commitment is to veterans across the entire nation. We must do what we can, where we can, to ensure that veterans, wherever they are, can access the support that they need. Some of the matters that the right hon. Lady referred to are devolved, but of course work I with all my counterparts across the devolved Administrations to deliver.
Mr Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Wickford) (Con)
We had hoped to see the Minister for the Armed Forces today, but we accept that he is on manoeuvres.
More seriously, we learned last week that the Prime Minister’s interest in British Army veterans once even stretched to working with disgraced lawyer Phil Shiner to help prosecute them. What is the Minister’s reply to the subsequent comment from General Sir Peter Wall, the former head of the British Army, who said of those actions:
“If that’s the Prime Minister’s moral stance, then one has to ask questions about how compatible that is with his job of making decisions about putting soldiers in harm’s way in the national interest for the defence of the realm”?
What is the answer to the former Chief of the General Staff?
Louise Sandher-Jones
Apologies. The right hon. Member played a pivotal role in the previous Government’s disastrous record on looking after the armed forces, overseeing the horrendous decline in accommodation and real-terms cuts to military pay, and hollowing out and underfunding our armed forces, so I know he is not a details man. I gently remind him that the Prime Minister did not work with that individual or with any organisation, and his role was limited to working with the Law Society on points of law. The Prime Minister actually has a record of representing people who were wrongfully accused or killed on operations.
Mr Francois
Let us try this for detail. Why should any British soldier, past or present, or those who commanded them, owe loyalty to a Labour Government who contain an Attorney General who once willingly represented Gerry Adams, or to a Prime Minister who once wrote a legal treatise on how best to prosecute them under the European convention on human rights? Why, before he was elected to Parliament, did our Prime Minister agree to take formal legal instructions from Phil Shiner, a man hated throughout the British Army for his years of false claims against veterans, for which he was convicted as a fraudster and struck off? What kind of politicians support our soldiers by helping to sue them?
Louise Sandher-Jones
It is well known in the House that the Prime Minister was a human rights lawyer, so obviously he wrote in connection with that. What really stands as a testament to the Prime Minister’s support for veterans is the fact that this Government are delivering record spending for veterans and rolling out £50 million for valour hubs. I think that speaks for itself.
Ben Obese-Jecty (Huntingdon) (Con)
The Minister for Defence Readiness and Industry (Luke Pollard)
I have paused the declaration of IOC for Ajax until the investigations of safety incidents have concluded. Let me be clear: I want the Ministry of Defence and our forces to be bold, to innovate and to challenge, but they must never compromise on safety. We are preparing a recommendation on the next steps on Ajax, and I will keep the House informed, as I have since Exercise Titan Storm on 22 November last year.
Ben Obese-Jecty
The Minister knows that I have a keen interest in this topic. There were 33 injuries sustained during Exercise Titan Storm. General Dynamics achieved initial operating capability for Ajax on 23 July, and between then and Exercise Titan Storm on 22 November, there were three other exercises: Exercise Scorpion Cyclone, Exercise Cyclone Storm and Exercise Tradewind. I asked the Minister a written question last year about how many injuries were sustained, but I am yet to receive a response. How many noise and vibration injuries were sustained on those three exercises? Will he confirm whether there were any injuries prior to his signing off IOC on 5 November?
Luke Pollard
It is good to know that the hon. Gentleman, the Member of Parliament who tables the most parliamentary questions to the MOD, keeps track of all his questions. I am certain that I have replied to that one, but will check when I get back to the Department, and make sure that he has the reply. We are looking at all the incidents from Titan Storm, at previous suggestions of incidents, and at potential injuries. The injuries under the last Government were well documented, but we have instigated a number of investigations to get to the bottom of what happened, and why that information did not flow to Ministers ahead of the IOC declaration. I will continue to keep the House updated on progress.
Mohammad Yasin (Bedford) (Lab)
The Minister for Veterans and People (Louise Sandher-Jones)
Under the plans set out in the defence housing strategy, 90% of military homes will be upgraded, renewed or rebuilt. The strategy is backed by a record £9 billion investment over a decade. That work will be driven by the Defence Housing Service. We have already rapidly improved military homes by delivering our charter commitments, including transforming 1,000 of the very worst homes.
Mohammad Yasin
I welcome the new publicly owned Defence Housing Service, which is already improving conditions for service families by bringing 4,688 of the 5,088 military homes in the eastern region back into public ownership for upgrade and renewal. Does the Minister agree that we must continue investing in our armed forces—the backbone of our national security—and that after years of neglect under the last Government, Labour’s £9 billion military housing strategy is finally delivering the homes and support that our service families deserve?
Louise Sandher-Jones
My hon. Friend is right to point out that under the previous Government, forces families were severely let down on housing. Under the plans set out in the defence housing strategy, 90% of military homes will, as he rightly notes, be upgraded, renewed or rebuilt.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
There is massive improvement in forces housing, but there is a site at Ballykinler that has been lying vacant for, I understand, five years. It is heated, and it has new windows. There has been lots of work done. I have written to the MOD, asking whether it is possible for properties that are not being used to be used for another purpose. For instance, they could be used for youth camps, for youth groups or for social housing, because this site in Ballykinler is secure. The Minister may not be able to answer that question now, but I would very much appreciate an answer on that.
Louise Sandher-Jones
As the hon. Member will be aware, I cannot provide an update on that specific instance now, but I will get an answer for him. We are exploring how we can make best use of the existing estate.
David Chadwick (Brecon, Radnor and Cwm Tawe) (LD)
Munira Wilson (Twickenham) (LD)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
The Government are already making the largest sustained increase in defence spending since the end of the cold war; we plan to hit 2.6% of GDP being spent on defence in April 2027, and 3% in the next Parliament.
David Chadwick
Britain faces a once-in-a-generation threat to our national security, as Putin’s war continues in Europe and uncertainty grows about the future reliability of the United States. Will the Secretary of State therefore take up the Liberal Democrats’ proposal that we issue time-limited defence bonds? That would allow the public to invest directly in modernising our armed forces, raise billions for new equipment, and ensure strong parliamentary oversight of how the money is spent.
John Healey
I note the arguments that the hon. Gentleman and his party are now making, but it was just in autumn 2024 that the Lib Dems were calling for this Government to set a pathway to 2.5%. We went further than that, with the largest increase in defence spending since the end of the cold war, three years before he was calling for it. We have a plan to hit 3% in the next Parliament.
Munira Wilson
I appreciate what the Defence Secretary has just said, but with President Trump attempting to tear apart the international alliances that have kept us safe for decades, and with Putin waging war in Ukraine for almost four years, the world is changing fast. We need to come together as patriots to decide how we can best invest in the defence of our country as quickly as possible. Can I press him again to convene cross-party talks on how we can reach 3% of GDP on defence quickly, and will he ensure that defence bonds are part of the solution?
John Healey
In the first instance, I would welcome support from the hon. Lady and her party for the fact that in this Parliament, we will invest £270 billion in defence to keep Britain safe and our alliances secure for generations to come. This is a Government who are delivering for defence, and delivering for Britain.
Joy Morrissey (Beaconsfield) (Con)
The Minister for Veterans and People (Louise Sandher-Jones)
Veterans of Operation Banner, like all veterans, are benefiting from record levels of investment by this Government. The new veterans strategy celebrates our remarkable veterans with £50 million for Operation Valour and £12 million for the reducing veteran homelessness programme.
Joy Morrissey
Today was my brother’s birthday. He was a veteran who died at age 36, and he would be proud that today I am talking about the 250,000 veterans of Operation Banner. Those veterans put their lives at risk to fight to keep us safe and free and they deserve our support, so will the Minister explain why the Government no longer believe those veterans deserve to be protected from more years of lawfare?
Louise Sandher-Jones
I note the service of the hon. Lady’s brother. As she well knows, this Government are bringing in real protections for veterans, and if she wishes to support legislation that gives blanket immunity to terrorists, that is of course her prerogative.
Bobby Dean (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD)
The Minister for Defence Readiness and Industry (Luke Pollard)
To deter and defeat aggression, this Government are investing in innovation in the latest capabilities for our forces. R&D is critical to maximising defence ability to be an engine for growth. It is this Government who have ensured that 10% of our equipment plan must be spent on novel technologies, and we have introduced a £400 million defence innovation fund.
Bobby Dean
The Minister will know that investment in defence R&D has tremendous impacts on the UK economy, not only through jobs and crowding in private investment, but through the spill-over effects of new technologies helping Britain to prosper. Is it therefore not clear that if the Government were to issue defence hypothecated bonds, that would make a brilliant return for the British taxpayer too?
Luke Pollard
The hon. Member is absolutely right to say that defence innovation has considerable positive spill-over effects for the wider economy. That is one of the reasons why this Government are investing in technologies that have dual use potential—not just to give our fighting forces the equipment they need but to provide benefits for the wider economy. He will have heard what the Secretary of State set out on defence spending, but I welcome his support for defence innovation and investment in R&D.
Lloyd Hatton (South Dorset) (Lab)
For the past few months, my hon. Friend the Member for Bournemouth West (Jessica Toale) and I have been campaigning for a new drone centre to be designated at the Dorset Innovation Park. The park already hosts a strong defence ecosystem for testing, developing and researching drone technology. Alongside this, the county has a well-established network of colleges and universities, in Bournemouth, Poole and Weymouth, offering the skills we need to make this a success. With all this in mind, will the Minister continue to work with me and all relevant stakeholders to establish a drone centre at the Dorset Innovation Park, which I know will help to strengthen national security and, of course, secure good jobs?
Luke Pollard
As a fellow west country MP, I recognise my hon. Friend’s ambition and determination to see more of those innovative technologies—autonomy, drones and other types of novel technologies—creating good jobs in his community. He has been speaking not only to me but to the Minister for the Armed Forces, who leads on drones, and I wish the businesses in his constituency and the wider region the very best as they innovate to provide our armed forces with the kit they need.
Mr Richard Quigley (Isle of Wight West) (Lab)
The Minister for Defence Readiness and Industry (Luke Pollard)
This Government have stepped up our support for naval shipbuilding. We have secured the largest shipbuilding export in British history, with the Type 26 being sold to Norway; we have invested in strategically important infrastructure; and we are driving naval programmes in UK shipyards. The shipbuilding and maritime technology action plan will set out our future ambitions to support the naval and civilian shipbuilding and maritime technology sectors.
Mr Quigley
Wight Shipyard and Diverse Marine in my constituency do fantastic work and they thoroughly welcome the launch of the new dedicated unit to help ensure that small defence companies can access Ministry of Defence contracts. However, given the recent news that a £200 million contract has been awarded to the Dutch firm Damen, what assurances can the Minister offer to companies such as Wight Shipyard and Diverse Marine that they will have a fair and credible route into competing for these major programmes?
Luke Pollard
Serco has indeed awarded a contract to Damen as part of its provision of tugs for the UK military. We have set out clearly our intention that more of our rising defence Budget should be spent with British companies, supporting the construction of more naval assets in British shipyards. We will continue to do that, not just through supporting the Type 26s and Type 31s being built in Scottish shipyards but, as we move to a hybrid Navy, through more platforms being built in shipyards right across the United Kingdom.
Ian Roome (North Devon) (LD)
We could invest better in naval shipbuilding if the Government paid attention to a report published by the National Audit Office, which estimates that £1.5 billion a year of defence spending is lost to fraud and that the Ministry of Defence recovers only 48p in every £1 spent on counter-fraud work, less than other Departments. What will the Minister do to ensure that more of that funding can be recovered for our national defence?
Luke Pollard
Let us be absolutely clear: any money lost to fraud is money that people have taken away from our national security and our national defences, and that is unacceptable. The Department is looking at how we can continuously improve our anti-fraud measures, and we will continue to do so. As we roll out increased defence spending, it is even more important that we spend the money wisely.
Cameron Thomas (Tewkesbury) (LD)
The Minister for Defence Readiness and Industry (Luke Pollard)
The United Kingdom’s nuclear deterrent is completely operationally independent—only the Prime Minister can authorise the firing of the UK’s nuclear weapons, even if they are deployed as part of a wider NATO response—and £15 billion is being invested in the sovereign warhead programme over the course of this Parliament.
Cameron Thomas
If the Government want to make inroads into the EU Security Action for Europe fund via Emmanuel Macron, they could do worse than recognise the foresight of Charles de Gaulle, whose suspicion of the United States has been fully vindicated by Washington’s national security strategy. The French nuclear deterrent is the only truly independent nuclear deterrent. What steps are the Government taking to minimise the UK’s reliance on the US for nuclear deterrent servicing?
Luke Pollard
Our nuclear deterrent is operationally independent. It supports thousands of jobs up and down the country. We will continue to invest in the skills and technologies required to keep our continuous nuclear deterrent at sea. We will continue to invest in that sovereign capability, but we will also continue to participate across defence programmes with our partners, both in the United States and in Europe.
Sarah Smith (Hyndburn) (Lab)
The Minister for Veterans and People (Louise Sandher-Jones)
Armed forces families play a vital part in supporting members of our armed forces and helping them to perform their role of defending our national security. Our ambition is for our Valour hubs to support not only veterans but members of our wider armed forces communities, including families.
Sarah Smith
Another important factor in support for our brave troops is the provision of military clothing. The previous Conservative Government tied us into a contract whereby about 90% of Army clothing is secured through overseas suppliers, and a significant amount is secured from China. In my constituency of Hyndburn, the home of textiles, many businesses are eager to meet the needs of our British troops. Will the Minister review this and look into whether British companies can meet those British needs?
Mr Speaker
Order. Can the Minister weave in the subject of the main question, which is about families rather than the supply of garments? Good luck.
Louise Sandher-Jones
I know that armed forces families will be very concerned about the kits that their loved ones are wearing. I hope that the majority of our clothing is sourced from British companies, but I am sure that my hon. Friend the Minister for Defence Readiness and Industry will be happy to speak to my hon. Friend about the issue in more depth.
Alicia Kearns (Rutland and Stamford) (Con)
It is over a year since I raised the subject of the 5,700 women who were wrongly and unfairly dismissed from the armed forces for falling pregnant while in service. Will the Minister please update me on what she has done in that time to ensure that they get their caps and berets back? They absolutely deserve that, because we should be supporting those in the armed forces who want to have families.
Louise Sandher-Jones
The hon. Lady is right to raise that important point. I have received updates from officials, and I will push for a further timeline on which to update her.
Rebecca Smith (South West Devon) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Defence (John Healey)
This month marks four years since Putin’s full-scale invasion of Ukraine, and the Ukrainian people continue to fight with huge defiance and courage, recently retaking parts of the city of Kupiansk, striking military targets deep in Russia, and reporting a Russian casualty rate of 25 to 1 in some parts of the frontline. Putin is increasingly under pressure. He has thrown 17,000 North Korean troops into the fight, and has recruited thousands more from Africa and other nations. Four years on, the Ukrainian courage will be matched by our UK determination. Next week I will travel to NATO and will co-chair the 33rd meeting of the Ukraine defence contact group, where 50 nations will step up the provision of military aid and support to keep the Ukrainians in the fight.
Rebecca Smith
Ministers stress how keen they are to remove obstacles hampering defence innovation, and nowhere is that more important than in my South West Devon constituency, which is home to the majority of Plymouth’s national centre for marine autonomy. The Maritime and Coastguard Agency has spent the past 12 months or more looking into how to remove licensing obstacles for autonomous vessels such as underwater drones. Given that Plymouth’s marine autonomy sector is set to receive a share of the £250 million defence growth deal, will the Secretary of State commit to putting further pressure on the Government Legal Service—or whoever else it will take—to get the legislation in place to update the MCA’s workboat code 3 as a matter of urgency?
John Healey
The hon. Lady makes an important point. The doubling in this Parliament of our investment into autonomy will be directed in significant part towards marine technology. Her part of the world—the south-west—plays a leading role in that. She urges action across Government, so I hope she will see that the shipbuilding and marine autonomy plan that we will publish shortly will show exactly what we are doing on a number of fronts.
Alistair Strathern (Hitchin) (Lab)
The Minister for Veterans and People (Louise Sandher-Jones)
My hon. Friend makes an excellent point. I know that more than 14,000 private organisations have signed the armed forces covenant, and one of its core principles is that service personnel should face no disadvantage compared with other citizens in the provision of public and commercial services. I am glad that some insurance companies have taken steps to address this issue, and I urge all businesses to ensure that their policies fully support the armed forces community and reflect their commitment to the covenant.
James Cartlidge (South Suffolk) (Con)
Last August, the Deputy Prime Minister of Mauritius said that when his Government take sovereignty over the Chagos islands, nuclear weapons could no longer be stored there. In last week’s Chagos debate, in answer to our repeated questioning as to whether that was true, the Minister for Defence Readiness and Industry replied three times by reading annexe 1 of the treaty, whereby it grants
“unrestricted ability to…control the storage of all goods, including but not limited to fuels, weapons and other hazardous materials”.
Does the use of the word “weapons” in that sentence of the treaty definitely include nuclear weapons?
The Minister for Defence Readiness and Industry (Luke Pollard)
I have read it to the hon. Gentleman three times. Do I have to read it to him a fourth time for him to start understanding this? No wonder the Conservatives do not want to admit that they started the negotiations over Diego Garcia. They do not want anyone knowing that because they are clearly not prepared for it, unlike this Government, who are securing that base.
James Cartlidge
It is interesting that the Secretary of State passed responsibility for answering the question to the DRI Minister next to him, but the Minister did not answer the question. This is of profound national importance because, for us and the United States, these are our most important and sensitive capabilities. When the Minister answered three times last week, he read that sentence about controlling
“the storage of all goods, including but not limited to fuels, weapons and other hazardous materials”.
The word “nuclear” is not there. Does that sentence cover nuclear weapons—yes or no?
Luke Pollard
I am not going to read it to him a fifth time—my God! The hon. Member is not being serious. He also knows, as a former Defence Minister, that we do not comment on the storage of nuclear weapons, but I am happy to read it to him again any time he wants, so that he can note the word “weapons” in there.
Lorraine Beavers (Blackpool North and Fleetwood) (Lab)
Mr Speaker
Order. We are now on topical questions. It is very important that we get orders for Lancashire—I am fully behind her on that—but do it quickly. Go on, Minister.
John Healey
Mr Speaker, you above all people will recognise the importance of the contract we let to Leonardo 10 days ago, worth £450 million, to upgrade British Typhoon radars. As my hon. Friend will understand, those radars will be a big part of how we sell Typhoons, which will be made and assembled in Lancashire, to other nations such as Turkey.
Sarah Dyke (Glastonbury and Somerton) (LD)
Luke Pollard
As the Secretary of State set out earlier, we are working flat out to deliver the defence investment plan. We are continuing to speak to our colleagues in Leonardo, not just about NMH but about how we are investing in Leonardo’s services nationwide.
Sonia Kumar (Dudley) (Lab)
Many injured service personnel face prolonged recovery journeys, and access to specialist rehabilitation is crucial. How is the Department expanding the role of allied health professionals in the Defence Medical Services to strengthen rehabilitation and provide joined-up care from injury to recovery?
Louise Sandher-Jones
My hon. Friend makes a very important point. All armed forces personnel are supported by dedicated and comprehensive rehabilitation services. Allied health professionals play a crucial role in supporting the treatment and rehabilitation of armed forces personnel in the UK and on operations.
Sarah Bool (South Northamptonshire) (Con)
John Healey
I take that as an early indication that the hon. Lady might want to serve on the Bill Committee, in which case we welcome her stepping forward. I think she will recognise that the legislative framework, which allows us to take action to bring down malign and menacing drones over UK defence sites and defence bases, is long overdue. I look forward to her support in introducing that.
Mr Alex Barros-Curtis (Cardiff West) (Lab)
The ongoing threat to our nation’s security from grey zone activity illustrates the importance of international associations and alliances, such as NATO. Does the Minister share my concern at what the leader of the Green party said yesterday? In the same sentence, he said that he would both leave and reform NATO. Does that not show how unserious he is?
Luke Pollard
We live in incredibly uncertain and difficult times, so the clarity and strength of our commitment to NATO matters. Labour is the party of NATO; we helped found it. We will continue to support it and to support NATO allies, because the strength of NATO is the UK’s strength as well. We are going to continue to have a NATO-first approach.
Joe Robertson (Isle of Wight East) (Con)
John Healey
The hon. Gentleman will recognise that, for the first time, we have in place a security and defence partnership agreement with the European Union. That is part of our stepping up our willingness to work with the European Union. He knows that the SAFE negotiations did not come to a successful conclusion. That was quite simply because it was not in the interests of the British taxpayer and the British defence industry. We will do a great deal more to support the wider security of the European Union and European nations through NATO.
Emma Lewell (South Shields) (Lab)
Intensifying security competition in the Arctic necessitates enhanced co-operation with our regional allies. Can my right hon. Friend say whether the Government intend to invite Canada to join the Joint Expeditionary Force?
John Healey
The 10 JEF nations, led by the UK—JEF was established by the previous Government—have stepped up their leadership, with support from Members on both sides of the House. JEF is an important part of NATO and allows us to act ahead of unanimity in NATO. From critical infrastructure to exercising in the High North, JEF has led the way and will continue to do so.
Helen Morgan (North Shropshire) (LD)
Louise Sandher-Jones
Just last week, we launched the single living accommodation review, which is designed to get at exactly these issues to ensure that our serving personnel have the accommodation they deserve.
Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall and Camberwell Green) (Lab/Co-op)
Following President Trump’s insulting remarks about our hard-working British personnel, a constituent of mine contacted me saying he was very happy to hear the Prime Minister condemn those remarks. His eldest son has retired from the Army following injuries and his youngest son is a medic in the Army. My constituent is here in the Public Gallery today. Will the Secretary of State join me in paying tribute to our hard-working servicemen and women and to all our veterans, and recommit this Government to supporting and protecting our hard-working servicemen?
John Healey
I can, indeed; I welcome my hon. Friend’s constituent in the Gallery today. This Government are on the side of those who serve and on the side of those families who support those who serve.
Rachel Gilmour (Tiverton and Minehead) (LD)
Luke Pollard
I thank the hon. Member for her interest. It is precisely for those reasons that we established the Armed Forces Commissioner, an independent champion for our armed forces and their families. That legislation has now become law, and the recruitment process will conclude shortly.
Alex Baker (Aldershot) (Lab)
Our servicewomen are currently not as well protected by in-service body armour, which is designed around male body types, providing inadequate ballistic protection. With testing of female body armour now under way, will the Minister commend the work of NP Aerospace in improving women’s safety, and commit the MOD to continuing to cultivate vital UK sovereign capabilities such as this?
Luke Pollard
I pay tribute to my hon. Friend, who has been leading the charge for female body armour. NP Aerospace is doing a superb job on this, and I know she will be bringing female body armour to Parliament so we can all see that this can be delivered. We have a strong commitment to investigate—and to support our female serving personnel through—better body armour, and I look forward to working with her to deliver that.
Bradley Thomas (Bromsgrove) (Con)
Luke Pollard
The defence readiness Bill was set out in the strategic defence review. We are looking across Government at how we can bolster readiness measures—not just legislative ones, but policy changes, removing stupid rules and spending more. We are looking to implement the defence readiness Bill later in this Parliament. The Armed Forces Bill is now before the House, and that is our immediate focus.
Will Stone (Swindon North) (Lab)
Taskforce Kindred has been a fantastic success of this Government. Can the Secretary of State outline if there are plans to extend the programme and how defence SMEs can get on board with it?
John Healey
I can, indeed. Taskforce Kindred has been at the heart of the UK’s rapid response and our reliability as Ukraine’s closest ally since Putin first invaded Ukraine nearly four years back. It will continue to play a central role in the future, and it has lessons for the procurement and provision of our own kit and systems for our forces.
Greg Smith (Mid Buckinghamshire) (Con)
Luke Pollard
The hon. Gentleman will know that we inherited a base closure programme from the Conservative Government, with announcements of closures right across the country. We are looking carefully at the bases we have, at how we can use them for military needs, and, where we can dispose of them, at how we can ensure that we build houses for our armed forces and veterans on that land.
Mr Francois
On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I fear that the Veterans Minister, who is still here, may have inadvertently misled the House earlier. According to House of Lords legal records, from 29 to 31 October 2007 in the al-Jedda case against British soldiers held before the Lords of Appeal in Ordinary, the applicants were represented by several QCs, including the now Prime Minister, who were instructed—it is in the records—by Public Interest Lawyers, Phil Shiner’s law firm. Would the Minister or the Prime Minister care to correct the record?
John Healey
Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I will set the record straight, including the right hon. Gentleman’s remarks before the House this afternoon —[Interruption.]
Mr Speaker
Order. We have had enough of trying to continue this debate—it now ends.