Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace)
I am meeting my Australian counterpart this week to discuss a range of defence issues. The UK is one of the few countries in the world that can design and build nuclear-powered submarines. Developing that capability represents a major undertaking for Australia, and experience suggests that collaboration is often necessary to develop complex platforms. I am optimistic that UK industry will benefit from such collaboration.
Steve McCabe
I am grateful to the Secretary of State for that answer. He will be aware that when the former Prime Minister made his statement on the AUKUS deal back on 15 September 2021, he was emphatic that the deal would lead to hundreds of highly skilled jobs in Scotland, the north of England and the midlands. When does the Secretary of State think that those jobs will be created, and can he give me any idea about the specific locations?
Mr Wallace
We also said at the time that there would be an 18-month study programme where we work out both design and work share for this submarine. That is drawing to a close. We are waiting for the Australian Government to make their decision on what AUKUS looks like. Given the amounts of money that Australia will be spending on this enterprise, the need for international collaboration and the fact that both Barrow-in-Furness and Faslane are global centres of excellence that will help to deliver on that deal, I am confident that all those statements will turn out to be exactly as they were made. Let me give the hon. Gentleman some indication of this: we are already increasing the number of jobs in Barrow, from 10,000 people to 17,000, in order to fulfil both the Dreadnought programme—the nuclear deterrent—and the next generation of Britain’s attack submarines.
Simon Fell (Barrow and Furness) (Con)
I thank my right hon. Friend for the considerable effort that his Department, the Government and the Navy have put into securing this important agreement. It was heartening to see the presence of representatives from the Royal Australian Navy and also the Australian Government at the commissioning of HMS Anson, and to hear the announcement that Australian submariners will be training on that vessel, too. With that in mind, does my right hon. Friend agree that this agreement is crucial to securing a new geo-political and strategic agreement with Australia, the UK and the UK on areas such as subsea and cyber to keep us safe?
Mr Wallace
Barrow-in-Furness, Devonport and Faslane are key components in delivering our nuclear submarine capability and can almost not be replicated around the world. It is very important that we recognise our speciality and skills. When Australia chose to go for nuclear submarines as an option, it did so because it recognised that there were about five countries on earth that could do this, and that it was important if it wanted to retain a strategic edge in the Pacific and its part of the world against any future adversaries. We know that: that is what we did for the past 70 years in the Atlantic alongside our American friends. I am delighted that Australia is joining that programme.
Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)
The AUKUS deal was supposed to be the defining agreement of the Indo-Pacific tilt, which this Government said in the Integrated Review—I am sure that the Secretary of State remembers this—would make the UK the European partner with the broadest and most integrated presence in the Indo-Pacific. Given today’s news and the fact that the combination of historic defence cuts and inflation will make the high hopes of the Integrated Review harder to fulfil this time, will the Secretary of State inform the House whether it will still be the UK’s aim to be the European partner with the broadest and most integrated presence in the Indo-Pacific?
Mr Wallace
The hon. Gentleman is right to ask those questions. It is still our ambition. So far, two of the planks of AUKUS are already in place, and we will be seeing the full details of that. It is no mean undertaking to commit to helping another country build that capability and be engaged in its training and deployment. That is a very deep and enduring deal. The investment of the United States in joining with us all those decades ago has lasted 70 years—that is a tilt on any basis—but we also had a carrier strike group on a visit only two years ago. That has continued, and we plan for another one in 2025.
Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Ind)
More broadly, what steps is my right hon. Friend’s Department taking to further strengthen and broaden the AUKUS alliance?
Mr Wallace
The second pillar of AUKUS includes things such as artificial intelligence, hypersonics, cyber and all sorts of other technologies that are critical not only to complement the deployment of submarines, but to further engage our collective security. Those are technologies that are rarely shared between nations, but the United States recognises that, in order to face up to the challenges till the end of this decade, we need to make sure that we both share our industries and that we have protection from each other’s markets to make sure that we not only share, but get to sell into them as well, which is quite important.
John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)
This week, like the Secretary of State, I will be meeting the Australian Defence Minister and discussing AUKUS with him. I want him to know that, while there may be a change of UK Government at the next election, there will be no change in Britain’s commitment to AUKUS. If done well, this pact could deepen our closest alliances, strengthen security in the Indo-Pacific and bring game-changing investment to Britain. What priority has the Defence Secretary given to building the first subs here, and when will the build plan be announced?
Mr Wallace
I welcome the right hon. Gentleman’s support for AUKUS and I note his point on a Government, though of course there will be no complacency from the Labour party; I hope they will not repeat what happened once in the 1990s. The reality is that AUKUS makes good security sense, and those on this Labour Front Bench recognise good global security, even if those on the last one did not. His questions are a matter for the Australians, who ultimately will make the decisions and are the customer in the sense of where they spend the Australian taxpayer’s money. We have of course contributed to the discussion and offer, but Australia will have to make a decision about time and how quickly it wants the capability, how much it wants to build in Australia and what is the right fit for its ambition: Britain or the United States’ existing fleet. I suspect that will come some time in March, if not in February, and I am happy to keep him up to date. We have put in a good proposition, and I am delighted he is meeting his counterpart, because our relationships matter.
Daniel Zeichner (Cambridge) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace)
The Ministry of Defence, as the UK’s biggest landowner, is delighted to welcome a range of people to use the land, including walkers, mountain bikers and riders; as long as they use the land responsibly, they are welcome on it. No one, however, should receive special treatment.
Daniel Zeichner
There was a memorandum of understanding that facilitated the monitoring of trail hunting on the Department’s land. Sadly, trail hunting is sometimes used as a smokescreen for illegal hunting, and the Defence Infrastructure Organisation has recorded incidents of foxes killed on Ministry of Defence land and the threatening conduct of some hunt staff. Can the Secretary of State tell us whether he was aware of the serious concerns in the DIO over the behaviour of hunts licensed in his name, and what advice was given by officials?
Mr Wallace
I am glad the hon. Gentleman has raised the MOU, which was put in place without any announcement to Parliament or any informing of Members of this House. It was not even put in the Library, as would normally happen for a change of policy by any Government. It was obviously disturbing to discover that the policy existed and gave special treatment to one group of users. I am sure he does not want people to have special treatment; I think everyone has a right to use that land that way. The policy also coincided with a large donation to the Labour party at the turn of the century from a whole group of those animal rights people. It is corrupt, Mr Speaker, that is what it is: a policy unannounced to this House after a funding donation to one political party, and now they are asking for special treatment. Everyone should respect each other in how they use that land. Having now investigated even further, I am aware that there are plenty of complaints from other sides, although this is not about sides; it is about whether one group gets special treatment.
Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)
Patrick Grady
In that case, I do not expect that the MOD will be taking any credit for the work that the conflict, stability and security fund does. The reality is that over the years, the Government have made a habit of double-counting spending to both the ODA target and the NATO 2% defence target—and of course the Home Office is busy raiding the ODA budget every chance it gets. Does that not do a disservice to what both the NATO 2% target and the ODA target are supposed to achieve?
James Heappey
The connection to the NATO target is somewhat tenuous, but there is a pattern to the hon. Gentleman’s questions. I think this is the fourth time he has asked this in oral questions, and he ask asked it in a number of written questions as well. I also think his point is principally aimed at colleagues in the Foreign Office and Treasury, but if he would like to meet MOD officials to discuss once and for all the MOD’s plans for the use of ODA, I would be very happy to facilitate such a meeting.
Mr Tobias Ellwood (Bournemouth East) (Con)
Speaking of budgets and Ukraine, may I invite the Minister to respond to comments from the United States—our closest security ally—which tally with the Defence Committee’s findings that the conflict in Ukraine has exposed serious shortfalls in the war-fighting capability of the British Army? This is not about the professionalism of individuals, units or formations; it is about overall combat strength and the equipment they use, as well as the ability to meet increasing demands caused by the deteriorating threat picture.
James Heappey
I am not sure that the United States has said anything about the official development assistance budget recently, but if you will indulge me, Mr Speaker, that is a wider point of news—[Interruption.] Thank you. Everybody is clear, and the Secretary of State has said many times—as have I and other ministerial colleagues —that serial underinvestment in the Army over decades has led to the point where the Army is in urgent need of recapitalisation. The Chancellor and the Prime Minister get that, and there is a Budget coming.
Stephen Hammond (Wimbledon) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace)
The national shipbuilding strategy and the National Shipbuilding Office are supporting our ambition to grow the UK shipbuilding enterprise and support UK jobs. Five new Type 31 frigates being built in Rosyth will support more than 1,000 UK jobs. The fleet solid support contract will deliver £77 million of investment, and create more than 1,200 jobs in UK shipyards and many more across the UK supply chain.
Stephen Hammond
I thank my right hon. Friend for that encouraging answer. He will know that offshore support vessels will be required for the Crown Estate offshore wind arrangements, for which licences are due to be tendered. Can he do anything to ensure that those vessels are made in the UK?
Mr Wallace
First, it is predominantly a matter for private companies or indeed non-Government departments to choose how and why to buy those vessels. But of course, to encourage more UK shipbuilding, we announced in the shipbuilding strategy last year the home shipbuilding credit guarantee scheme, which is there to help counter what seems to be a perverse incentive whereby other countries’ export credits encourage British companies to build abroad. We have been working closely on this with the Department for Business, Energy and Industrial Strategy, and I hope that we will be able to announce more details soon.
Bob Blackman
I thank my right hon. Friend for his answer thus far. Clearly, as we replace ageing ships and increase the size of the Navy, it is important that we ensure that those ships are built in Britain rather than abroad. What measures will he take to ensure that there is a long-term plan so that our shipbuilders can plan for the future?
Mr Wallace
I point my hon. Friend to the national shipbuilding strategy, which puts in place lots of measures, such as the home shipbuilding guarantee scheme and export credits for foreign buyers, as well as a skills plan, a “yards for the future” plan, which is about what a modern yard should look like and whether we can compete with European yards that have already beaten us to too many contracts, and a shipbuilding pipeline. That is an incredibly important indicator to the industry that there is a long-term pipeline to come through. It is also important to recognise that if we are going to be as successful as we are in the aerospace industry, we will need export, and if we are to export to other markets, we have to recognise that international collaboration is also part of the process. Do I think that Australia and Canada would have bought our Type 26s if we had said, “No way, you are only having ‘British’ on it”? No, and all our supply chain would have suffered as a result.
Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)
Notwithstanding what the Secretary of State has said, we know that many aspects of the shipbuilding industry feel that our Government have been less supportive of them than some of our competitor nations around the world. If the Government continue to award contracts under which large proportions of the work are completed abroad, will that not undermine the British shipbuilding industry? Will the Secretary of State say something more about how we can ensure that more of these ships are built by UK shipbuilding firms?
Mr Wallace
I really urge the hon. Gentleman not to listen to the propaganda and claptrap of the union leadership. I recently went to Belfast and to Appledore and met the local unions and do you know what? They do not agree with their leadership’s statements and rather bizarre propaganda. Fundamentally, the fleet solid support ships will be entirely put together, and nearly two thirds built or supplied, through the UK. At the same time, we are getting £77 million of investment into the yards to modernise them so that they can compete. For too long, our yards have not won contracts, whether Government or private, because we have found that the big prime contractors have not invested in modernising the skills in the yards. When I meet the workforce, whether in Govan or elsewhere, they say that they want to be invested in.
Mr Speaker
Secretary of State, we have got to get through all the questions, not just the first ones.
Mr Speaker
Order. I am sorry, it is not fair to everybody else. I am bringing you in on a supplementary; it does not mean you can take all day. Try to answer it, Secretary of State.
Mr Wallace
I can guess the memo that was sent from the union to the hon. Lady about what to ask. The reality is that unless we invest in our shipbuilding industry and unless we collaborate internationally, we will not have a shipbuilding industry. We tried it the other way, and it did not work. We have to build collaboratively. In the aerospace industry, including in Lancashire, where you and I are from, Mr Speaker, we have the Typhoon aircraft, which is an international collaboration and a world-beating success, employing tens of thousands British people.
Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)
In an answer to my written parliamentary question on 26 January 2023, the Minister for Defence Procurement, the hon. and learned Member for Cheltenham (Alex Chalk) said that the Type 32 frigates are
“a key part of the future fleet”.
In the National Audit Office report on the equipment plan, it reported that
“Navy Command withdrew its plans for Type 32 frigates…because of concerns about unaffordability.”
How can Type 32 frigates be a key part of the future fleet if there are question marks around their affordability?
Mr Wallace
That is because the Type 32 frigate will not come in until after 2030 or 2031, because it will come after the Type 31s, which are being constructed in Rosyth as we speak. What the Type 32s are going to be, how they will be designed and who will build them is obviously a matter for between now and towards the centre of the decade. Even if the hon. Gentleman gets into government, no Treasury will give a budget for seven years forward, so it is important to make sure that we do not sign on the dotted line before we have the budget in line. It is absolutely the intention of the Royal Navy to have more frigates and destroyers, including the Type 32.
Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace)
Defence procurement is some of the most complex in government, but our defence and security industrial strategy represents a step change that will see industry, Government and academia working closer together, while fundamentally reforming regulations to improve the speed of acquisition and to incentivise innovation and productivity. Our acquisition reforms will drive pace and agility into procurement to improve delivery.
Mr Davis
I very much agree with the Secretary of State on the need for increased defence expenditure if we are to remain a tier 1 power. Nevertheless, in every one of the past 21 years, the National Audit Office and the Public Accounts Committee have criticised the MOD’s procurement of equipment, poor identification of military needs, poor quality of equipment, slow delivery of projects, an inability to control costs and a corporate culture too traditional and resistant to change. Those are just some of the criticisms. Does he agree that we need to put those issues right if we are to be a tier 1 power?
Mr Wallace
I absolutely agree. First, that is why for the second year in a row, and nearly for a third, under my stewardship the Ministry of Defence will come in on budget or under budget—the first time in decades—to make sure that we live within our means. Secondly, it is also important to point out that it is always a challenge for any Secretary of State for Defence that the Treasury likes to deal in one, two, three or four years. Some of the programmes we are talking about, such as the Type 31 or the future solid support ship, are decades-long, and in that long process of complexity, threat changes, technology changes and inflation changes, and indeed there are all the challenges around. If we are going to have Governments investing in long-term infrastructure, whether civil or military, it is important to understand that long-term investment has a different risk profile. If we do everything year by year, we will always end up in a similar position.
Catherine McKinnell (Newcastle upon Tyne North) (Lab)
The Secretary of State will be aware of growing concerns about the impact of delays and the management of defence programmes on our defence readiness. What specifically is he doing to ensure that the UK will meet our UK NATO obligations in full?
Mr Wallace
We are still on track to maintain above 2% of GDP on defence spending, if that is the obligation to which the hon. Lady is referring. It is important, as colleagues have pointed out, to make sure we get good value for money. It is also important that we try to deliver on time. Some programmes are on time, and 85% of defence programmes do come on time—the major collaborative ones and the major complex ones over long terms are often the ones that cause us problems. We need to improve that and make sure we do not over-spec. We also need to make sure that, where possible, we collaborate and improve internal mechanisms that often hold things up.
Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con)
The UK has some of the highest defence procurement standards in the world, and I am glad that the Government are seeking to drive them up still further under my right hon. Friend’s leadership. When co-operating with our international friends, allies and partners—particularly Ukraine—does he agree that it is vital that they have similar levels of transparency in their defence procurement to maintain public confidence and support for Ukraine?
Mr Wallace
It is important, across the international community, that the public get a sense of where all our donations are going and how they are being used. On a recent visit, I met Ukrainians and other international partners to ensure that we put in place some form of assurance, so that we know where what we are sending is going, because soon the public will rightly say, “What is happening to it?” It is also important to recognise, as Ukraine has shown, that supply chains, whether domestic or multinational, have to be supported to ensure that we can surge them at times of need, rather than having to blow the dust off them and it taking months or years to reopen them.
John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)
As the Secretary of State has indicated, Ukraine has made it graphically clear that long-term ordering is vital to the defence industry and to maintaining capacity in machinery and manpower. Does he therefore accept that the failure to place orders for new nuclear submarines between 2010 and 2016, even though there was a clear majority in the House for doing that, was a major strategic error?
Mr Wallace
I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman. I will do a deal with him if he admits that that is not the only example: we have all made strategic errors in our defence policies in the last two decades, because the Treasury has worked in the short term, so we have hollowed out the company. Government after Government have wanted more but have not wanted to fund it—his Government were no different, as I know, because I was serving in the Army under them.
Mr Mark Francois (Rayleigh and Wickford) (Con)
The Ajax programme has been so controversial that the Secretary of State personally commissioned an independent review by Clive Sheldon KC into the flow of information surrounding it. Has he yet received that report? When does he intend to publish it? Can he promise the House that he will do so in full and unredacted?
Mr Wallace
I am informed by the Minister for Defence Procurement that the report is coming imminently, which I hope means in a few weeks, not months. I will read it and then, of course, I will make sure that, at the very least, the findings are shared with the House. I am happy to have a discussion with the Defence Committee about how much we can share with it, subject to any security concerns.
The good news is that Ajax is now starting the next phase of trials. As I have always said, I am determined to fix that troubled programme. We are now on the way to getting it through the next most important trials, after its having passed its user viability trials up to Christmas. I am trying to fix that programme and get it delivered. At the same time, I am delighted to learn the lessons.
Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab)
The MOD procured services to administer defence housing and accommodation. It is now more than a month since my urgent question, when the Minister for Defence Procurement said:
“VIVO, Amey and Pinnacle are, I know, in no doubt about Ministers’ profound dissatisfaction at their performance.”—[Official Report, 20 December 2022; Vol. 725, c. 144.]
Since then, there have been more cases of poor repair and poor service. Can the Secretary of State say, specifically with regard to defence accommodation, whether the procurement process is fit for purpose and whether he has confidence in the current providers?
Mr Wallace
It is a timely question from the hon. Gentleman. This weekend, I looked at the different options for finding compensation or recompense from the providers in the first place. I get a weekly update on individual cases and how many cases are in the queues. In some areas, they have made progress and their progress is comparable or better than the private sector, but there is still work to be done. I am most concerned about mould and dampness; we have seen some success around heating. We expect a better service, however, and the Minister for Defence Procurement meets the providers regularly. It is important to note that we will keep their contracts under review and, if we do not get a better standard, I will take other steps.
Luke Pollard (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Lab/Co-op)
The question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis) is a good one, because the Government’s failure on defence procurement is not limited to weapons and ammunition. We need only to speak to people in defence housing with leaky roofs, black mould and broken boilers to realise that defence procurement is failing the people who serve in our military and their families. Last year the MOD paid £144 million to private contractors to maintain service families’ accommodation, yet many homes are still awaiting repairs and not getting the service that they deserve. One of the Secretary of State’s Ministers has admitted that these contracts do not represent value for taxpayer money, so why did the MOD sign them in the first place, and when will he be able to tell all our troops that they have a home fit for heroes?
Mr Wallace
We always want our homes to be fit for the men and women of our armed forces. I distinctly remember my time in Germany, and indeed in the UK, when the service was in-house, and I can assure the hon. Gentleman that there were issues with living under a standard of home then, which in some cases were worse. We have been monitoring to make sure that we get these reports answered. It was interesting that the start point of some of the problems was a lack of manning of the helpline at the very beginning—people were ringing up at Christmas and almost no one was there—and then having to work through the whole process. We are trying to do more. We will hold the providers to account and take financial action or whatever against them if we have to do so; I am not shy about doing that. We will try to seek compensation for the people suffering and to improve what is happening. However, in some areas, waits over five days are getting better. That is the first point; we are getting closer.
Dave Doogan (Angus) (SNP)
Multiple major procurement projects for which the Submarine Delivery Agency is responsible are late or over budget, or often both. Taxpayers are used to the concept of bonuses, but in the real world these bonuses are linked to performance. Those same taxpayers are haemorrhaging billions of their hard-earned taxes on the demonstrable failures of the MOD, not least those of the SDA. How can the Secretary of State justify giving six-figure bonuses to executives of failing MOD agencies? On the eminently reasonable supposition that he cannot defend the indefensible, what will he do to rectify those incoherent remuneration packages going forward?
Mr Wallace
The payments represent a number of new appointments that we have made and that we are turning around the Submarine Delivery Agency to improve availability. One area of deep concern has been the consequences of the hollowing out over the decades of maintenance and the availability of dry docks and other things in places such as Devonport which allow us to make sure that submarines are maintained in time to achieve better availability. The work is going well. It is important sometimes to change the workforce and ensure that we get the best, capable people possible to turn things around. I am confident that the new team are able to do that, and I am looking forward to seeing the results.
Robin Millar (Aberconwy) (Con)
Ms Marie Rimmer (St Helens South and Whiston) (Lab)
The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families (Dr Andrew Murrison)
On Thursday I had the great pleasure of visiting Lancashire and in particular Veterans UK at Norcross. I met some really great people who provide a range of support to our veterans. One of the biggest impediments to progress is around data. Consequently, we are putting £40 million into a transformation programme that will digitise our existing processes, enabling our staff to provide more effective and efficient support to our personnel and veterans and substantially improve their experience.
Robin Millar
Our veterans and their families have made an invaluable contribution to securing our freedoms and our nation, but broadly only about a quarter are in receipt of a pension that entitles them to support from the veterans advisory and pensions committees across the UK. First, will the Minister join me in paying tribute to the work of VAPCs in supporting veterans? Secondly, will he support my private Member’s Bill on 24 February, which seeks to extend their remit and expand the cohort of veterans to whom they can offer assistance?
Dr Murrison
I am very grateful to my hon. Friend. VAPCs provide a wonderful and unsung service, as did the war pension committees before them. Of course I look forward to 24 February, and I will give his Bill my wholehearted support.
Ms Rimmer
Those prepared to make the ultimate sacrifice to keep our country safe should not have to rely on benefits to get by. How does the Minister plan to help veterans reliant on universal credit to acquire the skills they need to access well-paid employment?
Dr Murrison
The hon. Lady will be aware of the career transition partnership. She will be aware too of the special arrangements for veterans who are unfortunately ill or injured to get them into civilian life in a seamless way and provide them with the skills they need for the rest of their lives. It is important to understand that all servicemen and servicewomen are civilians in waiting. They all return to the communities from which they are drawn, and throughout their careers they have preparation to enable them to do so in as seamless a fashion as possible with the skills that they need.
James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con)
The Minister will know that the all-party parliamentary group on veterans is currently running a survey of the experience of veterans across the UK when claiming compensation, war pensions and other fiscal support from Veterans UK. That survey closes tomorrow. Will he please agree to meet me to discuss its findings and, depending on what they are, will he also agree in principle to any measures that better assure the outputs of Veterans UK?
Dr Murrison
I am grateful to my hon. and gallant Friend for his chairmanship of the all-party parliamentary group on veterans and for the survey that he has undertaken. I am very much looking forward to the results of that survey. He will be aware that the MOD does a variety of surveys and canvassing, to ensure that we are giving our serving personnel and our veterans and their families what they need to pursue their careers and to ensure that their lived experience is positive. I am very much looking forward to what his group has to say, and of course I will meet him.
Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)
The Minister will know and appreciate that mental ill health disproportionately affects veterans and their families. The cost of living crisis is putting even more pressure on access to mental health services, according to veterans’ charities. The Labour party has committed to a £35 million investment in veterans’ mental health. I ask this sincerely of the Minister: will he match that?
Dr Murrison
First, I have to correct the hon. Gentleman. He is not right to say that veterans, or indeed defence personnel, are more likely than the general public to suffer from mental health problems. The reverse is the case. However, it is absolutely essential that we do all in our power to promote the mental health of our men and women. That is absolutely right, and he will be aware of a number of projects, including Op Courage and throughout peoples’ careers, to promote their mental health. We will continue to do that, but he needs to understand that defence is a positive experience for the vast majority of people who experience it.
Rachel Hopkins (Luton South) (Lab)
The initial headline findings of the independent review of the armed forces compensation scheme state that
“the process is overly burdensome and even distressing for the claimant due to unreasonable timeframes and a lack of transparency.”
That is but one of a number of concerns raised about the compensation scheme, all of which veterans across the country have been telling us about for a long time. Veterans, who have made huge sacrifices to keep our country safe, deserve far better from this Government. Can the Minister tell the House when the full report will be published and what he is doing to ensure its findings will be acted upon swiftly?
Dr Murrison
The hon. Lady is referring to the quinquennial review, which has published its interim findings and will publish its definitive report in the spring. She is right to highlight some of the findings of that report in its interim form, and of course we will take into account all of those—[Interruption.] If the hon. Lady will allow me, we will take into account all of those in the spring, when the report is published. One of those things is to ensure that the system is less adversarial than it has previously been, but we have to understand that a lot of the delay is baked in because of the need to obtain proper, full, comprehensive medical reports.
Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)
The Minister for Defence Procurement (Alex Chalk)
The Type 32 programme began the concept phase on 21 September 2022 and will seek to deliver an outline business case in spring 2024. The programme and procurement strategy will be decided following the concept phase, in the normal way.
Sir Edward Leigh
Further to the earlier exchange between the Secretary of State and the shadow Minister, the hon. Member for Islwyn (Chris Evans), can the Minister confirm that, although this Type 32, so called, will not, as I understand it, come on stream until 2030, the Government are fully committed to having an ongoing warship programme and that, whether we call it the 31A, the 32 or whatever, we remain committed to renewing the Royal Navy’s capability after 2030?
Alex Chalk
Yes, and last week I had the pleasure of being in Rosyth, where steel was being cut in respect of the Type 31, which is an affordable frigate that can be configured for the mission, whether that is a humanitarian mission, a war-fighting mission or an anti-piracy mission. That flexibility is exactly what we want from our frigates, and we want them to ensure that there is a pipeline into the future.
Aaron Bell (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Con)
The Minister for Armed Forces (James Heappey)
The UK, our allies and partners are responding decisively to provide military and humanitarian assistance to Ukraine. The UK has led the world with the gifting of modern main battle tanks to Ukraine, and we are engaging international partners through a co-ordinated military and diplomatic effort. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence should take some personal credit for that, because at every turn throughout the past year he has sought to understand what the Ukrainians would need next and rallied support across Europe and beyond in that gifting.
Aaron Bell
I concur with my right hon. Friend that we have shown the way on Ukraine. We have consistently been at the forefront. He mentioned battle tanks; it was our announcement that set the precedent that enabled our allies to make their announcements last week. In the same vein, will my right hon. Friend confirm that we will continue to lead the way on support for Ukraine by pushing our allies to match our commitment to send as much, or more, military aid to Ukraine this year as we sent last year?
James Heappey
The Government have already committed the same amount of money for this year as it did for last year, so in that sense the job is already done. Of course, how this year’s money is used will depend very much on what is going on on the ground. That is the most important part of the gifting programme. The relationship between the UK and Ukraine is now so strong that we are able to discuss very candidly each other’s plans and make sure that we support Ukraine every step of the way.
Dame Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)
We heard before Christmas that the Government had finally signed a contract to replenish NLAWs—next-generation light anti-tank weapons—but, in order to ensure that we can continue to be a leader in the international effort in Ukraine, how many other contracts have been signed to replace the consumable military aid that has been sent to Ukraine?
James Heappey
High-velocity missiles have already been placed on contract. Many of the other systems that have been donated were already in the process of being updated and were gifted when they were coming to the end of their life within our current inventory, and thus would not be expected to be placed on contract because they are part of a routine procurement process.
Dave Doogan (Angus) (SNP)
Much of the international support that is going to Ukraine will be deployed to defend Ukrainians against the barbarity of the Wagner Group private militia. Will the Minister explain to the UK’s allies why the UK Government made available the frozen assets of Wagner’s leader, Yevgeny Prigozhin, in order that he could take out a case against a British journalist? Given this inexplicable accommodation, will the Minister confirm whether this Tory Government roll out the red carpet exclusively for Russian warlords? Or is it an inclusive UK service, available to war criminals everywhere?
James Heappey
The presence of Wagner on the frontline in the Donbas is clearly a reflection of just how bad things have got for Putin and the Russian armed forces—so bad that a mercenary group that recruits from prisons is required. As for the substantive part of the hon. Gentleman’s question, it sounds like that might be a question for my Treasury colleagues; I will make sure that they write to him with an answer.
Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con)
Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon and East Thurrock) (Con)
The Minister for Defence Procurement (Alex Chalk)
The Ministry of Defence works closely with British industry and academia, including small and medium-sized enterprises, to identify and invest in innovative technologies that address our most pressing capability challenges, as well as publishing our future priorities to incentivise investment. We are already testing and deploying these technologies.
Greg Smith
The best innovation is not necessarily the preserve of the giant players in the sector but can be found among smaller enterprises such as those at the Westcott Venture Park in my constituency, including Flare Bright’s development of autonomous drones for flight in global navigation satellite system-denied areas. Will my hon. and learned Friend assure me that when it comes to the development of new defence innovations, such smaller, dynamic enterprises are as valued to his Department as the more traditional big beasts?
Alex Chalk
My hon. Friend is absolutely right: a lot of innovation does indeed come from agile SMEs, which is why the MOD’s SME action plan is firmly aimed at improving access for SMEs to work right through the defence supply chain. Indeed, the MOD has a target that 25% of its procurement spend will go directly and indirectly to SMEs—that is up from around 16% in 2016. The latest figures I have seen show that we are at 23% already. We are on the right path but there is further to go.
Gareth Davies
The Tempest fighter jet and the Challenger 3 are examples of the Government’s commitment to giving our forces good-quality equipment. Does my hon. and learned Friend agree that we must also prioritise the wellbeing of our personnel? One way to do that is to ensure that the quality of their food matches the calibre of their kit.
Alex Chalk
My hon. Friend is of course absolutely right. Ensuring that our service personnel receive good-quality meals is a vital contribution to defence capability, which is why the Ministry of Defence has established a team of subject-matter experts to overhaul and modernise the delivery of defence catering using the findings of the “Delivering Defence Dining Quality” review and the ongoing Army Eats trials to inform change to the total food offer. The trials began in 2020 and the results are expected imminently. They will inform the future of dining for defence.
Stephen Metcalfe
If we want to keep our country safe we need to work with our allies to ensure that we remain at the forefront of the latest developments in defence technology. Will my hon. and learned Friend confirm that our new partnership with Japan and Italy will involve collaborating in areas such as weapons and unmanned aerial vehicles, and not just on fighter jets?
Alex Chalk
The ambition of this truly international programme is principally to deliver a cutting-edge fighter aircraft, providing a credible deterrent to future threats. As my hon. Friend knows, this is a system of systems, and it is likely to include uncrewed aircraft, new sensors, weapons, advanced data systems and secure networks. Those wider capabilities may be developed together with our wider partners, or with our existing partners in that endeavour. We will continue to explore system opportunities between both our core partnership and more widely.
Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Ind)
Following the recent memorandum of understanding signed by the Royal Air Force and Imperial College London, how do Ministers expect that will impact on the RAF’s technological capabilities, particularly around digital and artificial intelligence?
Alex Chalk
Digital and artificial intelligence are central to RAF capability. I was delighted recently to announce that significant investment has taken place in Lincolnshire to ensure that when those aircraft take to the skies, they have the weapons systems but also the battlefield management plans that they require to ensure that they can take the fight to the enemy.
Richard Foord (Tiverton and Honiton) (LD)
The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace)
The National Security Bill contains provisions that will help in prosecuting those who use their knowledge and expertise to train foreign militaries prejudicial to the interests of the UK. In the meantime, while the Bill passes through this House and the other place, we have issued guidance to all defence personnel at risk, and reminded personnel of their obligations to protect sensitive information. That has led to improved reporting of suspicious activity.
Richard Foord
I thank the Secretary of State for that helpful response. Qualified RAF pilots are quitting for better paid jobs that involve training the air forces of other countries, and fixed-wing aircraft have dropped by nearly a quarter since 2017. We learned last week that all the RAF’s Hawk jet trainer aircraft have been grounded because of an engine issue. Given that the Government will be in the High Court tomorrow in an effort to justify supplying arms for use in the war in Yemen, what does the Secretary of State have to say to MPs across the House who are concerned about the deployment of RAF personnel to Saudi Arabia in the last couple of months to train the Royal Saudi air force?
Mr Wallace
I have absolutely no problem with supporting our friend and ally in the region, Saudi Arabia. We have done it for decades, and will continue to do so.
Mary Kelly Foy (City of Durham) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Defence (Mr Ben Wallace)
Colleagues may have read reports this weekend about activity conducted by the Army’s counter-disinformation unit in 77th Brigade. Online disinformation from foreign state actors is a serious threat to the United Kingdom. That is why during the pandemic we brought together expertise from across Government to monitor disinformation about covid. The 77th Brigade is a hybrid unit of regular and reserve personnel that was established in 2015. It delivers information activities as part of broader military effects against hostile state actors and violent extremist organisations based outside the UK. It uses publicly available data, including material shared on social media platforms, to assess UK disinformation trends. It is not to be involved in regulating, policing or even reporting opinion that it may or may not agree with.
Mary Kelly Foy
My constituent, Daniel, was medically discharged from the Army in 2015, yet in September 2022 he was awarded only tariff-10 compensation. He is housebound and fully reliant on his mother, and psychiatrists agree that sadly his condition is permanent. Seven years on, Daniel is still without compensation that reflects the severity of his mental injury. Will the Secretary of State meet me to review that case, and ensure that veterans who suffer psychological injuries are compensated equally with those who suffer physical injuries?
Mr Wallace
I would be delighted to meet the hon. Lady to discuss the case.
Robert Courts (Witney) (Con)
The Minister for Defence People, Veterans and Service Families (Dr Andrew Murrison)
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for raising that. I know Brize quite well and the accommodation that he referred to. He may be aware that all top level budgets are meant to be assessing their accommodation against the Defence housing standard and will report by the end of the year. In the meantime, he should know that over the next 10 years £1.6 billion will be invested in barracks accommodation to improve some of the truly awful accommodation that, sadly, our men and women have to put up with.
John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)
This month, the Government made important but, again, ad hoc announcements of more military help for Ukraine. We are still waiting for the 2023 action plan of support for Ukraine first promised by the Defence Secretary last August. Will he publish that ahead of the first anniversary of Russia’s invasion next month?
Mr Wallace
I totally agree with the right hon. Gentleman that we need to set out a plan. But may I also tell him —I chased this in advance of today’s questions following the previous questions—that our donations are not ad hoc? There is a view abroad that they are somehow ad hoc, with the Ukrainians just picking up the telephone. Fundamentally, the donations are set by what happens on the ground, the reaction to Ukrainian defence and how Ukraine needs to adapt. It is not an ad hoc thing; it is a deliberate process, mainly co-ordinated by the United Kingdom and her allies. It is really important to separate that from an overall strategy about announcing to Parliament the different lines of effort that we take to counter Russia.
John Healey
Last week, the Defence Secretary said that the armed forces had faced a
“consistent hollowing out…under Labour and the early Conservative governments”.
However, when Labour left government in 2010, the British Army stood at more than 100,000 full-time troops and we were spending 2.5% of GDP on defence. The serious hollowing out has happened since. Who does he think has been in charge over the last 13 years?
Mr Wallace
Mr Speaker, you have only to listen to the veterans on the Government Benches to understand their experience under a Labour Government. Let us remember Snatch Land Rovers and all that awful mess as a result of the Labour Government’s investment. The deal here is quite simple: if the right hon. Gentleman wants to be the next Defence Secretary, he should come here and get off his chest the shortcomings of his former Government. I am happy to say that we have hollowed out and underfunded. Will he do the same, or will he hide behind petty party politics?
Rob Butler (Aylesbury) (Con)
The Minister for Armed Forces (James Heappey)
I am glad that my hon. Friend and many other colleagues went to Faslane last week and enjoyed their visit. We are of course committed to the replacement of Vanguard submarines with Dreadnought. More importantly, he mentioned the brilliant people based at Faslane who deliver day in, day out our nation’s nuclear deterrent, unseen under the oceans of the world. They are incredible people doing amazing work.
Alex Norris (Nottingham North) (Lab/Co-op)
Dr Murrison
I cannot give the hon. Gentleman the undertaking that he asks of me; he will understand that. Obviously, all things are kept under review, but we clearly do value the service of those from overseas who serve in His Majesty’s armed forces, and I think that most of them have a very positive experience.
Duncan Baker (North Norfolk) (Con)
Mr Wallace
Obviously, for security reasons, I cannot tell my hon. Friend exactly the timings. It starts with training on the operation of the platforms and then there is training on joining together with formation units to fight as a formed unit—that is important. From then, the tanks will be put in. What I can say is that it will be this side of the summer—May, or probably towards Easter time.
Mike Amesbury (Weaver Vale) (Lab)
Dr Murrison
Some 97% of Ministry of Defence service family accommodation meets or exceeds the Government housing standard. That is better than most local authorities and better than most registered social landlords. The hon. Gentleman may be interested to know—I looked this up earlier—that 105 homes owned by his Labour-controlled local authority are below the decent homes standard. I suggest that he takes that up with his council.
Ruth Edwards (Rushcliffe) (Con)
I am sure that the Minister will join me in thanking the wonderful team at the Defence and National Rehabilitation Centre, based in Rushcliffe, for their amazing work treating injured members of our armed forces. What assessment has he made of how the expertise and cutting-edge technology at the centre could be shared with our Ukrainian allies to help to rehabilitate Ukrainian heroes who have been injured on the frontline?
Dr Murrison
As it happens, last Monday I visited the Defence Medical Rehabilitation Centre. I also heard about the NHS-led National Rehabilitation Centre, which will hopefully be stood up by the end of next year: together, they will be able to provide a truly trailblazing international centre for rehabilitation and research. Obviously, this country stands by to help Ukraine in its fight against Putin in any way possible, including in the rehabilitation of its brave men who have given so much not only in defence of Ukraine, but in defence of the rest of us.
Afzal Khan (Manchester, Gorton) (Lab)
Mr Wallace
It is a really wonderful dossier, as far as dodgy ones go, because half the waste in it was under a Labour Government.
Sir Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)
Will the Secretary of State join me in applauding Poland’s historic announcement today that it is raising its defence budget to 4% of GDP? Can he imagine what conclusion I think our Government ought to draw from that example?
Mr Wallace
My right hon. Friend always tempts me. I think the Poles who are on the frontline have shown tremendous leadership in the face of Russia’s growing aggression, not only to their country itself but to its neighbours and friends in Ukraine. I think the conclusion that they have drawn is that the world is a dangerous, unstable place and is not likely to get any less so any time soon.
Dan Carden (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab)
Dr Murrison
I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for raising the matter. There is no question but that between 1967 and 2000, people in the LGBT community were badly dealt with by Defence. That is why we have set up the Etherton review, which will report shortly. Having met Lord Etherton, I can tell the hon. Gentleman that he will be forensic in his examination of the data. I think I can assure the hon. Gentleman that the handling of records, as far as we can tell, was carried out in accordance with civilian practice, but of course we will stand by and wait for his lordship to opine on the matter. We will comment further when he has done so.
Amanda Milling (Cannock Chase) (Con)
Will my right hon. Friend set out what preparations his Department has made for supporting overseas territories in the Caribbean during this year’s hurricane season?
James Heappey
I enjoyed working with my right hon. Friend when she was Minister for the Overseas Territories. She is right to care about the matter. She will know that the Department has done a lot of work over the past few years to develop the resilience of the overseas territories, as well as maintaining naval assets in the region and more at-readiness to assist if required.
Judith Cummins (Bradford South) (Lab)
During my recent visit to Ukraine with the right hon. Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith), Ukrainian officials were clear about their need for increased military support. Given that the United States is reportedly discussing the creation of a fighter jet coalition with Ukraine, and given that the German Chancellor is currently ruling out sending fighter jets to Ukraine, what assessment have the Government made in respect of building such a coalition with our NATO allies?
Mr Wallace
Since we took on the battle over getting tanks to Ukraine, people are understandably asking what will be the next capability. What we know about all these demands is that the initial response is no, but the eventual response is yes. We will track the progress, but, as I have said, it is not ad hoc; it is based on need and on defining what is needed on the battlefield. We will of course keep our minds open all the time about what it is possible to do next.
Dame Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)
I warmly welcome the announcement of £1.6 billion for the repair and refurbishment of on-site base accommodation. As the Minister has rightly said, the accommodation in both HMS Sultan and HMS Collingwood is truly awful. Meanwhile, we hear that in the Portsmouth area alone, the Royal Navy is spending millions of pounds a year on putting people up in hotels, while Fort Blockhouse, in my constituency—which the Minister knows very well—remains empty. When will the MOD address this?
Dr Murrison
I am aware that my hon. Friend knows Fort Blockhouse intimately, as indeed do I. It is aesthetically charming, but it is beyond reasonable repair when it comes to accommodating servicemen and women. We are spending money on HMS Collingwood, and I hope that it will be brought up to spec shortly.
Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)
A week from today a constituent of mine, Samantha O’Neill—a veteran who served in Iraq and Afghanistan—is due to be made homeless from a hostel by City of York Council, which is a signatory to the armed forces covenant. What steps can the Minister take to ensure that she and her three children are not homeless a week from today?
Dr Murrison
Obviously I cannot comment on a specific case when I do not have the details, but if the hon. Lady will send them to me, I will certainly look into them. Every local authority that signed up to the armed forces covenant needs to be mindful of its duty to look after servicemen, servicewomen and their families.
Sarah Atherton (Wrexham) (Con)
The charity Salute Her has reported that 133 women—a third of its caseload —presented themselves to it last year having suffered a sexual assault. They also presented themselves to defence community mental health services, but were subsequently discharged from the military owing to their having a personality disorder. I wrote to the Minister asking for further information, but none was available. Will the Minister look into the service to ensure that due clinical rigour is applied before people are discharged with a personality disorder?
Dr Murrison
I am grateful to my hon. Friend and predecessor. I see no evidence that people are being misdiagnosed or mismanaged. This is, of course, a matter for healthcare professionals and consultant psychiatrists in particular, and I cannot really interfere with their diagnoses, but I have noted my hon. Friend’s concerns, and I will certainly look into the issue.
Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)
Does the Secretary of State agree that what we have learnt from Ukraine is that the future of good defence will lie in having the latest technology and innovation? Are there any new schemes we could have that would increase investment in that new technology, especially involving partnerships with other countries across NATO?
Mr Wallace
I am delighted that we share the European headquarters of the defence innovation accelerator for the north Atlantic, or DIANA—a unit within NATO—with Estonia. I felt that it was important to partner with a small, innovative country to ensure that we get the very best between us. Our research and development budget is £6.6 billion, and we are one of the leaders in Government in investing it. However, the real lesson—this has always been a problem—is that it is important not only to invest in the inventions, but to pull that into what is actually required. That is traditionally where defence has fallen down, but I am determined to fix it, which means focusing R&D where we know there is a need in our armed services.
Simon Jupp (East Devon) (Con)
Many veterans in my constituency tell me that they sometimes struggle to adapt from frontline service to the jobs that are available locally. It is a huge change, and the scars of service can be challenging. Can my right hon. Friend provide an update on the work of the defence transition service, which helps veterans to get into good, well-paid jobs?
Dr Murrison
My hon. Friend may be referring to the career transition partnership, which is normally used for people making the transition to civilian life. The defence transition service is for those who have sustained an injury or illness. It is designed to ensure that people have the support that they need in order to adapt to their particular circumstances, and that they have the best possible chance of getting a decent civilian job after they leave the services. It is very successful in what it does, as is the career transition partnership.
Anna Firth (Southend West) (Con)
A recent news report detailing 14,500 urgent maintenance appointments in armed forces homes being missed is very concerning. Will my right hon. Friend reassure my constituents and me that he is taking every step to ensure that all our soldiers can live in good-quality homes?
Dr Murrison
Absolutely. It is the top priority for me, the Secretary of State and Minister for Defence Procurement. We must bear in mind that 97% of those houses are above the Government housing standards—better than most councils and registered social landlords. But we must do better, and we are bending ourselves to that task.
Selaine Saxby (North Devon) (Con)
Can the Minister confirm that UK operational sovereignty will be a factor in increment 1A of the maritime electronic warfare programme? Will he meet me to discuss that?
The Minister for Defence Procurement (Alex Chalk)
I will write to my hon. Friend on that important question.
Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con)
The Secretary of State referred to the allegations in the weekend press about 77th Brigade. I know him well enough to know that when he told us that he gave clear instructions and guidelines to the brigade, which operates only against foreign powers and extremists, he was telling the exact truth. However, will he review the issue and ensure that his guidelines have been followed in all cases?
Mr Wallace
I thank my right hon. Friend for the compliment. I have already instructed that we not only look into the story but check that the instructions that I issued after a visit were carried out.