John Slinger (Rugby) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Matthew Patrick)
I take every opportunity to champion Northern Ireland’s brilliant manufacturing sector, and whether it is Denroy, Airbus or Thales, or even Harland & Wolff, which has just announced that it is bidding for a major UK-Dutch shipbuilding deal, there is a lot to champion.
John Slinger
Does the Minister agree that the defence growth deal is a chance for Northern Ireland businesses to access the wider UK defence supply chain? What efforts is he making to achieve that?
Matthew Patrick
I certainly agree with my hon. Friend; many opportunities are arising from the defence growth deal, on which I have worked closely. Many businesses, small and large, across Northern Ireland have dual-servicing capability and they have a real opportunity here. We are supporting them every step of the way.
Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)
Ministers from the Northern Ireland Office talk rather glibly about these matters, but the lived reality of the supply chain is very different: a full international customs border that is now inflicting damage on the import of steel; tightening import control system 2 checks; a parcels border; a plants border; and £192 million spent on building border posts—all to placate a European Union to which the Secretary of State and others seem totally beholden. When will the Secretary of State actually stand up for Northern Ireland? Can we please not have the usual trite reply that it is all the fault of Brexit, when it is the very opposite? The denial of Brexit is the altar upon which our supply chains are being sacrificed.
Matthew Patrick
I worry that the hon. and learned Member is in danger of talking down Northern Ireland and its incredible business opportunities. We are here to champion it. If issues arise from the Brexit that he and others championed, we do our very best to ensure that trades flow smoothly.
Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Hilary Benn)
The Northern Ireland Troubles Bill will establish a reformed, human rights-compliant Legacy Commission to carry out investigations and provide answers on behalf of families who have waited too long, enable information sharing by the Irish authorities and provide, in law, safeguards for our veterans.
Sir Desmond Swayne
We were promised a substantial package of amendments and that the Bill would return to the House early in the Session. Is the delay occasioned by a pause for thought following the personal statement of the hon. Member for Birmingham Selly Oak (Al Carns) to the House? I certainly hope so.
Hilary Benn
The right hon. Gentleman will have noticed that the new Defence Secretary, who himself served in Northern Ireland, said on Monday:
“This Government are absolutely committed to the troubles Bill”.—[Official Report, 6 July 2026; Vol. 789, c. 15.]
The right hon. Gentleman will not have to wait too much longer—[Interruption]—to see the substantial package of amendments to which he refers.
Colum Eastwood (Foyle) (SDLP)
Members are shouting from the Opposition Benches that people have been waiting nine months, but there are victims who have been waiting decades for this issue to be resolved. Will the Secretary of State bring the Bill forward as quickly as possible, thinking about the victims first, never mind personal statements by anybody in this House? Our strong military lobby does not seem to care about the innocent victims who have been left behind in Northern Ireland.
Hilary Benn
My hon. Friend makes an important point about this piece of legislation. As we know, the Northern Ireland Troubles (Legacy and Reconciliation) Act 2023 did not command support across all communities in Northern Ireland. How can we hope to proceed if that is the case? That is why the Government are committed to reforming, repealing and replacing the legacy Act—that is what is in the Bill. I hope that when people see the full picture they will realise that it is fair, balanced, proportionate and reasonable, and that it seeks to command the confidence of all communities in Northern Ireland.
Hilary Benn
My hon. Friend the Member for Birmingham Selly Oak (Al Carns) will have to answer that question, but, with respect, I disagree with him. He worked on the package of amendments during his time as a Defence Minister. In the end, we have to strike a balance, as the hon. Member for Brentwood and Ongar (Alex Burghart) is well aware. When people see those amendments, they will realise that they are fair and reasonable with regard to the protection of our veterans. Crucially, they will put into legislation for the first time protections that were not in the Act passed in 2023.
Alex Burghart
It is clear from the Secretary of State’s answer that the former Armed Forces Minister quit because he could see that the Bill remains unfit for purpose and fails to protect the very veterans that it claims to protect. The Secretary of State must realise that there is no cross-party support in Northern Ireland for his legislation, and nor is there support in the Labour party for his legislation. Will he now accept that the Bill should not progress and that we should return to the legislation that the Conservatives brought forward?
Hilary Benn
I do not accept that, because all the Northern Ireland political parties were opposed to the immunity that was at the heart of the 2023 legacy Act. It had no support from political parties in Northern Ireland or from victims and survivors’ organisations. That is why these changes have to be made, and that is why the Government will proceed with this Bill.
Mr Paul Kohler (Wimbledon) (LD)
Back in March, the right hon. Member for Makerfield (Andy Burnham) travelled to Belfast to address the Alliance party conference. In his speech, he warned that
“it is too easy for the powers-that-be to write their own rules and cover up”.
He was talking about the need for a Hillsborough law, which he said at the time
“is currently stalled in Parliament due to an unacceptably wide carve-out for the security services.”
We on the Liberal Democrat Benches are deeply concerned that exactly that issue now confronts veterans, who, under this Government’s draft troubles Bill, are exposed to investigation and prosecution while the state that gave the orders shelters behind similar carve-outs. Will the Secretary of State confirm whether he will support the Lib Dem amendment to the Bill requiring that any decision to block disclosure on national security grounds is referred to the Intelligence and Security Committee to ensure proper parliamentary scrutiny?
Hilary Benn
We will come to debate that amendment, along with all the other amendments that hon. and right hon. Members have tabled, when we get to the Committee stage. The judgment in the Thompson case was absolutely clear—it was also referred to by the Dillon judgment—that the ultimate responsibility for protecting national security rests with the Government. That is a long-established principle that has support on both sides of the House. At the same time, I have made it clear that I wish to see the maximum possible disclosure, consistent with that requirement that falls on Ministers.
Gavin Robinson (Belfast East) (DUP)
The Secretary of State will know that, given the legacy of our past, two Governments are involved. Was he concerned, as we were, that Sir Declan Morgan shared with the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee two weeks ago his concern that he will not have access to unredacted intelligence material from the Irish Government? There is nothing in the Government’s draft legislation or the amendments due to come before this House that would change that around. Is the Secretary of State further concerned that the chief operating officer of the Northern Ireland Office said that day that she would take that point back—to whom we do not know, because she is the chief operating officer—but today has written to the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee to confirm that nothing in the Secretary of State’s amendments or the Irish Government’s legislation would satisfy Sir Declan’s requirement for access to unredacted material from the Irish?
Hilary Benn
As the right hon. Gentleman knows, the Irish Government published on 8 June their legislative outline, entitled “The General Scheme of the Legacy of the Troubles Bill 2026”. That is intended to fulfil the commitment that the Irish Government gave in the joint framework to co-operate to the fullest extent possible with the commission. The right hon. Gentleman is referring to the position today in the light of the Dillon judgment, and I happen to agree with him. Now that the Dillon judgment has made it quite clear that the commission, even in its current form, is compliant with the European convention on human rights and capable of carrying out investigations, I hope that we will see co-operation in response to the requests that the Independent Commission for Reconciliation and Information Recovery is making of the Irish Government.
Gavin Robinson
That is an answer to a question, but it is not really the answer to my question. I want to hear from our Secretary of State a full-throated recognition that there is a deficit, that Sir Declan needs access to the unredacted material, and that the Secretary of State will secure agreement from the Irish Government for such a change. Does the right hon. Gentleman not recognise that, as we stand here today in July, no remedial order was put before the Lords by the end of June? That deadline has passed. With no progress before the Irish assume the European presidency, which apparently was another deadline that needed to be met and has passed, and with no summit on 22 July, there is no chance that the Secretary of State’s troubles Bill will become law in 2026.
Hilary Benn
The right hon. Gentleman makes a powerful argument for why the troubles Bill should be passed, because it will enable precisely the information sharing with the Irish authorities that he and I want to see, and that all the people in Northern Ireland who are still waiting for answers would like to receive. That is one of the central arguments for proceeding with the Bill.
Marsha De Cordova (Battersea) (Lab)
Navendu Mishra (Stockport) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Hilary Benn)
I regularly meet the Northern Ireland Executive and the Police Service of Northern Ireland to discuss a range of issues in Northern Ireland, including community cohesion. However, given the recent serious disorder, there is a problem that needs to be tackled.
Marsha De Cordova
The scenes we witnessed in Belfast last month were truly horrific. The knife attack was an abhorrent act, and I pay tribute to the courage of those who intervened to help, but what followed in the days afterwards was equally disturbing. Innocent people were targeted because of the colour of their skin, families were literally burned out of their homes, and businesses were attacked. Does the Secretary of State agree that overt racism and violence has no place on the streets of Belfast or anywhere in our society, and that those in positions of authority and influence should stop inflaming tensions and legitimising racism and prejudice?
Hilary Benn
I do agree with my hon. Friend. The attack on Mr Ogilvie was truly shocking, and there was no justification whatsoever for the racist thuggery we witnessed on the streets of Belfast in the days following. I met nurses and doctors from a hospital in Belfast, and some of the nurses described to me how, because of the colour of their skin, they were too afraid to leave the hospital at the end of their shift, while others discussed whether they should leave in the back of a colleague’s car covered in a coat or in the boot, because they were afraid of the thugs who had taken control of the streets. The fact that that happened on the streets of our United Kingdom in 2026 should give us all cause for deep concern.
Navendu Mishra
I thank the Secretary of State for that answer. What assessment has he made of the level of online co-ordination during the recent unrest in Belfast, and what discussions has he had with the Police Service of Northern Ireland and other security partners about addressing that issue?
Hilary Benn
That was, of course, an awful feature of what we saw. One of the things I learned in my discussions was that those from the far right had taken a list of houses in multiple occupation in Belfast—a list that, in the interests of openness, was properly available on the Belfast city council website; the council has now taken it down—and used it to try to target houses during the racist violence. There is a clear obligation on social media companies, set out in the Online Safety Act 2023, and there is an obligation on Ofcom to enforce that Act, because there is no doubt that part of the violence was fuelled by that kind of online hatred.
Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)
The Secretary of State is plainly taking this very seriously, which is very much to his credit. Can he say what points of agreement and dissent there were in the discussions that he and his Ministers are reported to have had with the party leaders in Northern Ireland, and what actions the UK Government undertook to advance in order to try to reduce the possibility of these dreadful scenes—which, for many of us who lived through them, are reminiscent of the 1970s in Belfast—happening again?
Hilary Benn
The right hon. Gentleman raises a really important point, and I am grateful to him for his question. We all have a responsibility—political leaders have a responsibility to call out what was witnessed for what it is and not mince our words, and as I have already indicated, social media companies have a responsibility to ensure that such material, if it is illegal, is not available on social media sites. I pay tribute to the police and the community organisations, who did an extraordinary job on the night of the 10th to find shelter for people who had been burned out of their homes. Parents also have a responsibility; if someone’s son comes back at 11 o’clock at night wearing dark clothing and smelling of smoke, a parent might ask, “Where have you been and what have you been doing?”
Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)
Community cohesion is important, both racially and politically. Everyone accepts that political leaders and others have to be cognisant of what they say and what they do, and whenever we are all remembering our dead, as we do, no one denies republicans the right to remember their dead. Does the Secretary of State agree, however, that if a political leader, such as the First Minister—Sinn Féin’s Michelle O’Neill—not only remembers republican dead, but lauds, praises and defends their indefensible actions, that does great harm to community cohesion?
Hilary Benn
Northern Ireland is a society, as the hon. Gentleman knows better than most, that has been undergoing profound change since the signing of the Good Friday agreement 28 years ago. As the famous lines go, we have a shared history, but not necessarily a shared memory. The progress we have seen is because Northern Ireland society has been working to move beyond that. One of the people I met who was there on the night of the violence said that we now have “another other” in Northern Ireland. The hon. Gentleman will be familiar with the traditional divisions, but there is now another other: the ethnic minority population of Northern Ireland, who are terrified about what is happening. We do not want to add to the troubles of the past by not being clear how unacceptable it is to see that on the streets of Belfast today.
Claire Hanna (Belfast South and Mid Down) (SDLP)
Community cohesion is deeply threatened by the violence and menace that took place on the streets last month, which included deliberate orchestration and paramilitary flags and trappings that now fly as bold as brass from lampposts in my constituency and in many others. We can no longer pretend that loyalist paramilitaries are not a national security threat. Cohesion is also threatened by a sheer lack of delivery and of responsibility-taking by the Northern Ireland Executive. The Secretary of State must see the role that vetoes and structures play in that, and the moment of peril in which we may now be in Stormont. When will he convene the process for democratic reform of the institutions that a majority of people, of parties and of MLAs have asked for?
Hilary Benn
My hon. Friend is right to raise this issue, because five of the main parties have now come forward with various proposals for reform. I have said to the party leaders that I wish to meet them to discuss those proposals. Time and effort is being expended at the moment on trying to sort out the problem of the budget. On the question of the paramilitary displays and flags, the Police Service of Northern Ireland has new powers to remove them as a result of the recommendation of Jonathan Hall, the independent reviewer of terrorism legislation.
Robin Swann (South Antrim) (UUP)
In his first answer, the Secretary of State said that the recent disorder was a problem that needed to be solved. A fortnight ago, I arranged a roundtable in my constituency that included the Northern Ireland Housing Executive, the police, the Executive Office, the Department for Communities and many other organisations and representative organisations, including the Black Diamond Initiatives. It was apparent that they all had their strategies and their procedures, but what they did not have was a co-ordinated response. They were all looking to the Executive to pull all those organisations together. If dysfunction at the top of our Executive is not allowing that to happen, what actions will the Secretary of State take?
Hilary Benn
There is a responsibility, above all, on the Northern Ireland Executive to deliver for the people of Northern Ireland. There being no Executive in Northern Ireland for 40% of the time since the Good Friday agreement has not helped to achieve that objective. To take one issue, there is an acute housing crisis in Northern Ireland, as there is in other parts of the United Kingdom. In taking action to enable more homes to be built, one of the issues that needs to be addressed is the fact that water infrastructure cannot cope. If that is sorted out, more homes can be built.
Mike Wood (Kingswinford and South Staffordshire) (Con)
The attempted murder of Stephen Ogilvie in Belfast last month shocked people throughout the country. The man accused of this horrific attack is thought to have crossed into Northern Ireland illegally from the south. People from all communities are asking what more can be done to prevent people from coming into the UK illegally across that land border. Following the terrible events in Belfast last month, will the Government commit to significantly enhanced operations on the border, similar to those already run by the Republic?
Hilary Benn
We have already increased the number of operations and arrests in Northern Ireland in the last two years, in comparison with the previous period. About 1,000 people who had no right to be in Northern Ireland have been removed, including 500 who have been returned to the Republic of Ireland. The hon. Member will be well aware of the importance of the open border. Intelligence-led policing at the ports and airports under Operation Gull and visits to workplaces have resulted in more people being detained and removed.
Alison Hume (Scarborough and Whitby) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Matthew Patrick)
My hon. Friend is a powerful campaigner on this issue. The Secretary of State and I recognise the importance of fishing industries across the United Kingdom, and the Secretary of State visited Kilkeel earlier this year with Minister Muir, where this topic was raised. Immigration changes are designed to ensure that our domestic workforce has access to good jobs, and the Secretary of State has written to the Home Secretary about the issue.
Alison Hume
Unfortunately, jobs at Whitby Seafoods, the country’s largest supplier of scampi to caterers, remain at risk. That is because, as the Minister knows, about 70% of crews operating out of Kilkeel who catch the nephrops, or scampi, are foreign workers who will no longer qualify under the new visa rules from the end of this year. While efforts to hire more domestic workers are under way, a small number of bespoke seasonal visas could save the scampi industry. Will my hon. Friend redouble his efforts to work with colleagues to secure a solution and protect those jobs in both Northern Ireland and Whitby?
Matthew Patrick
As I have said, we have written to the Home Secretary about these issues, and I am sure that my hon. Friend will be making her case very powerfully as well. It is our duty to work with businesses across the UK to ensure that they are ready for these changes. We want our fishing industry to thrive, and we want people here to benefit from those good jobs.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
Owing to the severe financial impact of the restricted skilled worker visas, family-owned trawlers in Portavogie, Ardglass and Kilkeel face a perfect storm, alongside fuel costs and the newly imposed Isle of Man transit barriers. The Minister knows about the issue—both the hon. Member for Scarborough and Whitby (Alison Hume) and I have met the Immigration Minister, the hon. Member for Dover and Deal (Mike Tapp)—and there is a proposal that could be acceptable. Will the Minister add his support to it, to ensure that the historic fleet in Portavogie, Ardglass and Kilkeel is permanently able to fish the seas around the coast of Northern Ireland, and to ensure that our fishing sector has a secure future?
Matthew Patrick
As the hon. Gentleman will know, we totally support our fishing sector, and I am interested to hear more about that proposal. If the Immigration Minister is speaking with the hon. Gentleman and my hon. Friend the Member for Scarborough and Whitby, I will, of course, try to be part of those meetings to hear whatever I can hear.
Sammy Wilson (East Antrim) (DUP)
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Hilary Benn)
I regularly meet representatives of the logistics sector and businesses trading between Great Britain and Northern Ireland—for instance, through the Northern Ireland business stakeholders group—to discuss how we can make the Windsor framework operate as smoothly as possible.
Sammy Wilson
The Secretary of State will be well aware of the importance of the logistics industry in Northern Ireland, and also of the burdens that are falling on it at present because of the Brexit arrangements, which have pushed up costs, led to delays, and resulted in many containers coming back empty from Great Britain. On top of that, we now have the added costs of a carbon tax on ferries coming to and from Northern Ireland. Does the Secretary of State recognise that this industry is important to Northern Ireland, and is being strangled by the arrangements with the European Union and the net zero policies? What steps does he intend to take to address those issues?
Hilary Benn
In respect of the EU emissions trading system, yes, we are applying a carbon charge to boat movements between Great Britain and Northern Ireland—the same charge that is being applied between Great Britain and the Republic of Ireland. The purpose of that is to ensure that the carbon border adjustment mechanism does not hit businesses in Northern Ireland, which the right hon. Gentleman would be very cross about if it were to be the case. Let me simply say this to him: if things are as bad as he suggests, why is Northern Ireland one of the fastest-growing parts of the United Kingdom economy?
John Grady (Glasgow East) (Lab)
Janet Daby (Lewisham East) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Northern Ireland (Hilary Benn)
I met the leaders of the main Northern Ireland political parties on Thursday 11 June to discuss the terrible disorder. The attack on Mr Ogilvie was truly shocking, but the racist violence that we saw in response had no justification whatsoever.
John Grady
The Roma have suffered centuries of prejudice and hate. Under the Nazis, they were subjected to concentration camps and genocide. Roma people have made their home in my constituency and in Northern Ireland, and should be treated with decency, yet they have been subjected to terrible racist violence in Northern Ireland. What steps is my right hon. Friend taking with the Northern Ireland Executive to safeguard the Roma community in Northern Ireland?
Hilary Benn
The single most important thing that we can all do as political leaders is to be absolutely clear that everyone who has made the United Kingdom their home lawfully should be treated with equality, respect and dignity, regardless of where they come from. That is one of the characteristics of our country.
Janet Daby
I cannot begin to imagine what the victims of the recent disorder felt and experienced, and the devastation that it has brought upon their communities. My Labour values are about respect for others, and about treating people fairly and justly. This act demonstrated none of them. Will my right hon. Friend please say what is being done to rebuild and restore every aspect of these communities, from dealing with their trauma to ensuring their protection and restoring the loss of possessions?
Hilary Benn
I am grateful to my hon. Friend for what she says, and I agree with her. There was terrible disorder in Ballymena last year, as a result of which a number of steps were taken to bring the community together. It was noticeable that the recent disorder that we saw in Belfast was not replicated in Ballymena. That is an example of communities working together to build trust and respect, and we need to see a lot more of it.
Carla Lockhart (Upper Bann) (DUP)
Does the Secretary of State accept that while there can never be any excuse for criminal disorder, there is equally no excuse for a border policy that leaves Northern Ireland exposed? How many more incidents will it take before he and this Government deal with the open border with the Republic of Ireland, which is being exploited daily? When will they put in place measures to protect our citizens from illegal immigrants?
Hilary Benn
I hope the hon. Lady will recognise that the common travel area, which is more than a century old, is of great benefit to the citizens of the United Kingdom and the Republic of Ireland. Many people in Northern Ireland live their lives across that border every single day. Anyone who suggests—I know that she is not doing so—that there should be immigration controls on that border is not being realistic, and it would not be the appropriate action to take. As I indicated in answer to an earlier question, we are increasing immigration enforcement activity across the United Kingdom, including in Northern Ireland, as a result of which 1,000 people have been removed in the two years since the election, including 500 who have been returned to the Republic of Ireland.
Alex Easton (North Down) (Ind)
Will the Secretary of State join me in commending the officers of the PSNI, who have responded to the recent disorder with professionalism and integrity? Does he agree that they deserve the very best support, including a modern, high-quality training facility, and can he give the House an update on when that is going to be funded?
Hilary Benn
I join the hon. Gentleman in thanking and praising the brave officers of the PSNI. My hon. Friend the Member for Wirral West (Matthew Patrick) and I visited the officers at Strandtown police station, who dealt with the disorder when the bus was set on fire on 10 June. More than 40 of them were injured, and we wish them a speedy recovery. I know that the hon. Gentleman is a doughty advocate for the new training centre, and I look forward to discussing the matter further with him.
Paul Holmes (Hamble Valley) (Con)
The Deputy Prime Minister (Mr David Lammy)
I have been asked to reply on behalf of the Prime Minister, who is attending the NATO summit. Working with our allies, we are strengthening Europe’s role in the alliance, which remains the cornerstone of our national security. Yesterday the Prime Minister met with the Prime Minister of Norway, and I am sure the House will join me in wishing good luck to the England team ahead of the world cup quarter-final.
This week, we mark the awful anniversary of 7/7, a day when people travelling through London on a bright summer morning had their lives ended and changed forever, including my best friend James Adams. We remember all those affected by those terrible attacks, and we will always stand against terrorism.
The Labour party also pays tribute to Sir George Howarth. He was a champion for Knowsley, a distinguished colleague and a wonderful gentleman. We will miss him deeply, and our condolences are with his wife, Julie, and his family.
This morning, I had meetings with ministerial colleagues and others. In addition to my duties in this House, I shall have further such meetings later today.
Paul Holmes
I entirely associate myself with the Deputy Prime Minister’s opening and personal remarks.
The Prime Minister and the right hon. Member for Makerfield (Andy Burnham) are both proud football fans. Given that the Deputy Prime Minister clearly thinks the Prime Minister has always been match fit, how does he feel now that his own MPs have given the boss the red card and brought on a left winger to get them out of the relegation zone? [Laughter.]
The Deputy Prime Minister
That is not bad for someone who represents a premier league side, but two years since the election, the hon. Member still needs to engage with the facts about the Tories’ failed period in government. His colleagues now accept that. The former Treasury Minister, the former Communities Secretary, the former Health Minister and the former Immigration Minister—and that is just the right hon. Member for Newark (Robert Jenrick)—wrecked the country and helped wreck the Tory party, and now wants to do it all over again with Reform.
Jeff Smith (Manchester Withington) (Lab)
The Deputy Prime Minister
I agree with my hon. Friend: Bev Craig will be a brilliant mayor for Greater Manchester. I am proud that Labour is putting power over bus services back in the hands of local leaders. This Government have extended franchising powers, capped fares and invested to deliver better services, and we are ensuring that children can enjoy free bus travel this summer. I am sure my hon. Friends will want to get behind Bev in Greater Manchester so that we can defeat Reform’s divisive candidate and drive forward the agenda under a new mayor.
Mr Speaker
I call the shadow Secretary of State for Housing, Communities and Local Government.
Sir James Cleverly (Braintree) (Con)
I echo the right hon. Gentleman’s tribute to Sir George Howarth and pass on my party’s condolences to his friends, family and loved ones. I also echo his support and encouragement for the England football team in their forthcoming match against Norway. Of course, I also echo his words about those people murdered on 7/7, and their friends and their families, and I pay tribute to the emergency services that did so much on that day.
Will the Deputy Prime Minister apologise to the victims of the rapists, sexual predators and paedophiles that he is planning to release early?
The Deputy Prime Minister
I am delighted to welcome the shadow Housing Secretary to the Dispatch Box. He, of course, could have been doing that job every week if he were better with numbers. He was the Foreign Secretary in the Government who botched Brexit, the Home Secretary in the Government who decimated neighbourhood policing and one of the shortest serving Education Secretaries in our history.
The right hon. Gentleman asks about a very serious issue, and every decision we have taken has been based on public safety and delivering justice for victims. Let us talk about the context. The last Labour Government built 28,000 prison places. We are building 14,000 by 2031, and we have already delivered 3,200. The Tories closed 23 prisons: Gloucester—closed; Shrewsbury—closed; Portsmouth—closed; Holloway—closed; Northallerton—closed. And what is it now? A block of flats. That is why we have to have an early release scheme and why we passed the Sentencing Act 2026, and we are putting in community powers locally to make sure that we protect the public.
Sir James Cleverly
The right hon. Gentleman makes a joke about the use of figures. Let me give him a figure: 50,000 prisoners released early in just two years on his watch. I am genuinely shocked that, when given the opportunity to apologise to the victims, he very publicly failed to do so. Let me remind him what this is about. Let me quote Fiona Goddard, a victim of grooming gangs who has been brave and open about how his policy will impact her:
“Finding out that they may be released early has completely set me back. I have barely left the house. I feel constantly anxious, frightened and unsafe. I can barely sleep”.
That is the impact his policy is having on victims. He refuses to apologise, but why is he pursuing a policy that he must know is both wrong and dangerous?
The Deputy Prime Minister
This is a very serious issue and the right hon. Gentleman is experienced in this House. He knows that while he was Home Secretary, the Conservative Government had an early release scheme that let out 10,000 offenders—10,000. They had six schemes within a year. They had a scheme that they announced on 6 June 2023, another scheme on 17 October 2023, another scheme on 8 March 2024, another in April, another in May and another in June—all before the election. That is why the right hon. Member for Richmond and Northallerton (Rishi Sunak), it is rumoured, called the election in the first place. They left a system with just 83 empty cells. That is what the previous Justice Secretary inherited when she came into office.
That is why we had to pass the sentencing scheme. The right hon. Gentleman has not said what the Conservatives would do now to fix the system. Of course we think of every victim. That is why we are notifying victims and are in discussion with all victims. I sat, last week in my surgery, with a victim of grooming gangs. All of us want to see offenders locked up. That is why we must have prison capacity.
Sir James Cleverly
The right hon. Gentleman talks about 10,000 early releases over 14 years of Conservative government. The Labour Government have released 50,000 in two years. He knows it is wrong—he is a good man. He must know that it is wrong to release 5,000 serious criminals, including rapists and paedophiles. Not only does he know it is wrong, but his party knows it is wrong—not one of the 400 Labour MPs voted to support the Government’s policy in the vote last night. They know it is wrong and the country knows it is wrong, but he insists on pursuing it anyway. If he will not change course, will he at least make this guarantee: that not one rapist or paedophile will be released early later on this year?
The Deputy Prime Minister
The right hon. Gentleman has not proposed what the Conservatives would do if they were in office. They released 10,000 under four different schemes, with no impact assessment when they released them, no victim contact when they released them, and no warning. They did it on the sly.
Let us be clear: we have more probation officers, while the Conservative Government cut probation—decimated it—because of Chris Grayling. We have invested £700 million in probation. We are rolling out the largest programme of tagging in our history. We are forcing offenders to stay boxed in certain areas, rather than where victims are. We are creating alcohol, pub, football and driving bans. We are implementing income reduction orders. We are expanding chemical castration for sex offenders. None of that happened when they were in power.
Sir James Cleverly
I think the Deputy Prime Minister will look back on this exchange and be shocked by how it is coming across: no apology to the victims; and no guarantee that paedophiles and rapists will not be released early. We all know that releasing dangerous criminals on purpose is wrong, but not content with doing that, he is hellbent on releasing dangerous criminals by accident. Last year, in response to my hon. Friend the Member for South Suffolk (James Cartlidge), the Deputy Prime Minister claimed that Labour had got a grip of accidental releases, yet we now know that there have been more accidental releases in the last two years than in the entirety of the last Parliament. I will give the Deputy Prime Minister another chance: will he apologise to the country for his abject failure to keep prisoners in prison, where they belong?
The Deputy Prime Minister
I have got to say, this is rich coming from the right hon. Gentleman. The Conservatives had 14 long years in power; they wrecked neighbourhood policing—he was Home Secretary; prisons were at bursting point—that is why they called the general election; and they let out offenders in secret—and that why we have the Sentencing Act 2026, which passed through this House and the House of Lords. We are getting thousands more bobbies on the beat, toughening up probation—they decimated it—and we have to have the space to lock up dangerous criminals. That is why we passed the Sentencing Act.
Sir James Cleverly
It is the dangerous criminals that the Deputy Prime Minister is letting out early. So he refuses to apologise to victims, and he refuses to guarantee that sexual offenders and rapists will not be released early. Another thing that the country, and indeed this House, knows instinctively is wrong is his personal crusade to scrap trial by jury. We know that it will not clear the backlog, we know that it undermines fundamental British freedoms, and we know that the legal profession is united against it, so will he now admit that it is wrong, and will he commit to reverse his proposals to scrap trial by jury?
The Deputy Prime Minister
Let us be clear: there is no proposal before this House to scrap trial by jury. The right hon. Member needs to do better and get on the detail. There is a threshold change. Margaret Thatcher made a change to jury trials. David Cameron made a change to jury trials. The vast majority of criminal cases in this country are dealt with by magistrates—again, which the Conservatives cut. We are restoring the magistery, so that they can do more. We are investing in our courts—the Conservatives ran our courts down. We are modernising our courts, we are introducing digital ID, and we need reform.
Sir James Cleverly
The Deputy Prime Minister talks in glowing terms about what he claims to be doing, but what we are actually seeing this Government doing is stripping money from where it is needed and squandering it on the welfare bill, which has ballooned by £20 billion this year alone. He talks about getting over the detail, but here is a simple detail for him: when I was Home Secretary, we had more police officers than at any point in British history. Since Labour taking over, that number has dropped by over 2,000 officers.
At the Dispatch Box last week, the Leader of the Opposition highlighted this Government’s failure to defend us internationally. Today, I have highlighted the Deputy Prime Minister’s failure to defend us domestically. If the soon-to-be Prime Minister—is he in the room anywhere?—does not want to be complicit in the Deputy Prime Minister’s failure, he should come out and condemn the plan, not just hint that he opposes it. If this Labour Government cannot protect the citizens of this country, either domestically or internationally, then what on earth is the point of them?
The Deputy Prime Minister
The right hon. Gentleman insists on proving that he cannot count. We lost 16,000 police officers when the Conservatives were in power. The British people have not forgotten what they did to our country. After two years of this Labour Government, I will compare our record with theirs every day of the week. Their record is the biggest fall in living standards in recorded history; our record is the biggest upgrade to workers’ rights in a generation. Their record is wrecking our criminal justice system; our record is bringing down violent crime. Their record is millions of people stuck on NHS waiting lists; our record is cutting NHS waiting lists at the fastest rate in history. Their record is cutting defence—the right hon. Gentleman was a reservist—and hollowing out the armed forces; our record is the biggest boost to defence funding since the early 1990s. Their record is plunging hundreds of thousands of children into poverty; our record is lifting half a million children out of poverty. I will take our record over theirs any day of the week.
John Grady (Glasgow East) (Lab)
The Deputy Prime Minister
This case involves horrific offences against vulnerable children. I know that all Members of this House will join me in paying tribute to the victims, who have shown remarkable bravery in coming forwards. It is evident that these children were failed dreadfully, and Glasgow city council must urgently act on the recommendations of this review. I know that my hon. Friend has written to the Scottish Government to request an independent inquiry, and the SNP should consider that request with the gravity that it deserves.
Daisy Cooper (St Albans) (LD)
I associate myself and my party with the Deputy Prime Minister’s tribute to Sir George Howarth, and his remarks about the 7/7 bombings and all those who live with the consequences of that terrible day.
I wish England good luck for Saturday evening. As the UK braces for its seventh Prime Minister in a decade, I also thank the Deputy Prime Minister for our exchanges and wish him well in whatever role he may have next.
The hon. Member for Clacton (Nigel Farage) used to say, “Leave means leave.” But it seems that his latest stunt is to leave this place just so that he can return as a fully-fledged Member after not just one referendum on his behaviour, but possibly two. Will the Deputy Prime Minister join the Liberal Democrats in urging the Chancellor to delay the hon. Member’s resignation until the investigation is complete, so that the good people of Clacton have all the facts before they cast their votes? Failing that, will he support our “Clacton clause”, so that, even once the hon. Member ceases to be an MP, the investigations can continue?
The Deputy Prime Minister
Well, everyone can see that the Reform leader is just trying to distract from the fact that he is up to his neck in sleaze. He has serious questions to answer and he cannot run away from them. Labour is not going to be part of this circus. I hear it is the people versus the establishment: the City trader, Putin-admiring, professional politician who is pals with crypto billionaires versus Count Binface. There have been unqualified joke candidates in the past—let’s see what the people of Clacton decide.
Daisy Cooper
It is clear that it is a two-horse race. [Laughter.]
On a more serious and very sombre note, MI5 has defended in court an agent who they knew to be openly misogynistic and obsessed with violence. He used his position to coercively control his girlfriend, Beth, and attack her with a machete. To add insult to injury, MI5 gave false evidence to the court. Will the Deputy Prime Minister use this opportunity to offer Beth a full apology on behalf of the Government, and will he use his position to bring back next week a full Hillsborough Bill, which covers the security services, so that we can pass the law before the summer recess?
The Deputy Prime Minister
The hon. Member raises a very serious issue. I will arrange for Beth to meet the Security Minister to discuss the matter in detail. The hon. Member also mentioned the Hillsborough Bill, and I am confident that it will be before the House in the coming days.
Emily Darlington (Milton Keynes Central) (Lab)
The Deputy Prime Minister
My hon. Friend is right that our protections must keep pace with evolving threats such as deepfakes. I know that she has been in discussions with Ministers on the issue. We will look at her amendments closely. We are absolutely focused on protecting our democracy against foreign interference.
Dr Ellie Chowns (North Herefordshire) (Green)
Our politics needs fixing fast. The broken, outdated first-past-the-post system has clearly failed to deliver stable government. We urgently need to rebuild trust in our democracy and ensure that everybody’s vote counts equally. Does the Deputy Prime Minister agree with the right hon. Member for Makerfield (Andy Burnham) that proportional representation is an idea whose time has come? Does he also agree with me and Members across the House that that time is now, before the next general election?
The Deputy Prime Minister
I am very pleased that the hon. Member raises the issue of votes and democracy. But I have got to say this to the Greens: during the local elections, a Green councillor in Lewisham described me and the shadow Foreign Secretary, the right hon. Member for Witham (Priti Patel), as “coconuts”. The Green party looked the other way, kept the candidate in post and rewarded them with the council job—I am not making this up—of cabinet member for healing. The Greens could start the healing process by stopping such racist language.
Douglas McAllister (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab)
Mr Speaker
Order. I think the Deputy Prime Minister can answer that now.
The Deputy Prime Minister
I commend my hon. Friend for the difference that he has made and for his hard work to bring Pride in Place funding to his constituency. He lists an amazing record in two years, and we have got three more to go.
James McMurdock (South Basildon and East Thurrock) (Ind)
The Deputy Prime Minister
I say to the hon. Gentleman that everyone is equal before the law. That is the foundation on which the openness, tolerance and generosity of this country rest. Let us be clear: there is no two-tier justice in this country. The hon. Gentleman was elected as a Reform Member of Parliament and clearly aspires to become one once more. Given reports that concerns were raised with the National Crime Agency about the £5 million gift to the hon. Member for Clacton (Nigel Farage), he should be asking where did the money really come from?
Noah Law (St Austell and Newquay) (Lab)
The Deputy Prime Minister
My hon. Friend is right to champion the huge potential of Cornwall. We are absolutely committed to devolution and putting power in the hands of local leaders. Conversations with local authorities such as Cornwall are ongoing, and we will confirm next steps as soon as possible. I know that Ministers will be happy to update him.
Dr Roz Savage (South Cotswolds) (LD)
The Deputy Prime Minister
The hon. Member is right that we inherited record levels of pollution, and we are determined to tackle that and clean up our waterways. We have acted by banning unfair bonuses, introducing jail time for lawbreaking bosses and unlocking £104 billion of private investment to rebuild vital infrastructure to deliver cleaner waters, and we also have the clean water Bill. Of course I will arrange for her to meet the Minister.
Cat Eccles (Stourbridge) (Lab)
The Deputy Prime Minister
Mr Speaker, I would like to make a statement about the future: it is coming home. I echo my hon. Friend’s sentiments on Jude Bellingham. Not only is he making Stourbridge proud, but he is a source of pride for the whole nation.
In Great British Railways we are seeing the biggest overhaul of our railways in a generation. We will work with all partners, such as local authorities and local businesses, to drive investment, support economic growth and deliver a better service for her constituents.
Helen Morgan (North Shropshire) (LD)
The Deputy Prime Minister
We are raising defence spending to keep this country safe in an increasingly volatile world. That does require tough decisions, and the Department for Transport will set out £700 million-worth of savings from roads funding, but we will consult on the next road investment strategy and set out decisions in due course. I reassure the hon. Lady that safety would come first.
Pam Cox (Colchester) (Lab)
Ruth Ellis was the last woman to be executed in this country. Her case serves as a haunting reminder of a time when our justice system ignored the realities of domestic abuse and coercive control. In the decades since, members of Ruth’s family and supporters have campaigned unwaveringly for her to receive a posthumous pardon. Does the Deputy Prime Minister agree that their courageous campaign and the terrible lessons of Ruth’s case must strengthen the Government’s resolve to free women from devastating cycles of abuse?
The Deputy Prime Minister
I am grateful to my hon. Friend. I have the honour to say that His Majesty the King has accepted our advice to grant Ruth Ellis, the last woman to be hanged in the United Kingdom, a conditional pardon. [Hon. Members: “Hear, hear.”] While the pardon does not claim that she was innocent of killing David Blakely, it replaces the death penalty with a sentence of life imprisonment to recognise a profound injustice in this exceptional case. I know that her grandchildren, Laura Enston and Stephen Beard, are in the Gallery with us today. We hope that this pardon brings a measure of peace to Ruth Ellis’s family, who have carried the weight of what happened to her for over 70 years.
Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)
The Deputy Prime Minister
I know that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland is discussing the budget at this very time. Tackling fraud and error in the welfare system is a priority for the Government, which is why we passed the Public Authorities (Fraud, Error and Recovery) Act 2025, giving the Department for Work and Pensions more powers to stop fraud in its tracks, recover money lost and prevent overpayments.
Luke Murphy (Basingstoke) (Lab)
Yesterday, I was proud to host members of Basingstoke’s Nepalese community here in Parliament, including a number of Gurkha veterans. One of the issues we discussed was Gurkha pensions, and I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Aldershot (Alex Baker) for all her work on that—I have been proud to work alongside her. Does the Deputy Prime Minister agree that it is time to resolve the long-standing issue of Gurkha pensions, recognising the service and sacrifice of Gurkha veterans to our country?
The Deputy Prime Minister
I am grateful to my hon. Friend. We owe a profound debt of gratitude to the Gurkhas who have served this country courageously. We are listening to the needs of the community and already improving access to healthcare and community support. Ministers have met veterans and the Government in Nepal for constructive discussions on pensions, and those will continue. I will be happy to ensure that my hon. Friend is kept updated.
Rebecca Paul (Reigate) (Con)
The Deputy Prime Minister
We are backing business with the lowest corporation tax in the G7, we have delivered the small business plan with the largest crackdown on late payments in 25 years, we are bringing down costs for businesses through five major trade deals, we have secured £365 billion in private investment since the election and unemployment is down, with over 400,000 more people in work than this time last year.
Florence Eshalomi (Vauxhall and Camberwell Green) (Lab/Co-op)
Last month, I had the opportunity to host the Southbank Centre in my constituency for its 75th anniversary. It is one of the many centres that I am proud to have across Vauxhall and Camberwell Green. The House may know that the Southbank Centre was built as part of the festival of Britain in 1951, which successfully saw people come together to share their identity after the ruin of world war two. Seventy-five years on, sadly, the world is a more divided place. Recently, we have seen two far-right marches—one went through my constituency—leaving many members of the community feeling afraid. There is hope, however, as we see the world cup bringing people together, showing the power of culture and sport. Does the Deputy Prime Minister agree that now is the moment to continue to invest in the things that bring us together, just as the Government did in 1951?
The Deputy Prime Minister
I thank my hon. Friend for her tireless work in this area. She is absolutely right that we must stand united against those who seek to divide us. Our social cohesion action plan sets out how we will tackle extremism, bring communities together and restore national pride, and we are providing local communities with up to £1.7 million to insulate them against the threats to social cohesion.