Grand Committee
(2 years, 1 month ago)
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Pharmaceutical Research and Development Spending
(2 years, 1 month ago)
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Baroness Wheeler
To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to increase the United Kingdom’s share of global pharmaceutical research and development spending.
Baroness Wheeler (Lab)
My Lords, I am pleased to open this debate on behalf of my noble friend Lord Hunt, who sadly cannot be here today. As we know, this subject is dear to his heart and I am sure that the expertise of all noble Lords who will be speaking will do this important and vital issue full justice. I welcome the new Minister to his first Lords debate response and wish him well in addressing the mound of questions that he will face.
Our country faces a challenging time as we look to build back stronger from the impact of the pandemic. It has hit our people, our businesses and our growth hard, but here in the UK we already have a globally leading life sciences industry which, if we take the appropriate steps, can be central to unlocking our economic recovery. The industry currently makes up 18% of all R&D investment across the UK economy. It is the largest private R&D spending sector. In 2020, it was worth £5 billion and contributed more than half a million jobs to the UK.
Existing literature suggests that every pound invested in private R&D today leads to a stream of future benefits to the economy as a whole, equivalent to 50p per year in perpetuity. This sector’s R&D brings these benefits across a diverse geographic presence, with significant hubs in the south and north of England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland. With private capital and UK industry playing the largest role in pharmaceutical R&D, they need policy stability and consistency in order to feel confident in investing. The Government must help, not hinder, this.
This kind of R&D has huge value for the NHS and its patients, not just through the end-stage innovation that is produced but through clinical trials. These are a valuable source of revenue to the NHS and provide access to medicines for patients with limited or no-treatment options in routine care, such as people with cancer, dementia and rare diseases.
The UK has the potential to be a global leader in life sciences R&D. We have a mature ecosystem, have historically been a leader in early-stage clinical research and have made huge strides with early access to advanced therapy medicinal products. However, this debate is vital today because of deep concerns that the UK is slipping against our competitor countries in a number of key areas. Between 2012 and 2019, the UK’s share of global pharmaceutical R&D expenditure fell from 7.7% to 4.1%. This has led to a loss on average of £3.2 billion per year for the past eight years. Since 2009, our manufacturing production volumes have fallen by 29% and 7,000 jobs have been lost and, between 2018 and 2020, the UK slipped down the global rankings across all phases of industry clinical trial delivery.
We can and must do something now. Urgent implementation of the Life Sciences Vision—it has been welcomed by the sector, which co-developed it—is now critical as the UK’s international competitors, spurred on by the pandemic, are moving at pace to enhance their life sciences offer and capture internationally mobile investment. Can the Minister say when the promised implementation plan for the one year anniversary of the vision, due last July, is to be published? Can he also reaffirm that the Government remain committed to the vision, not least its core ambition to make
“the UK the best place in the world to trial and test products at scale”?
The current uncertainty is not helping the deeply worrying situation that we are in. Moreover, an effective, joined-up approach is also needed on the Government’s wider overall science research and development strategy. We have had a number of separate R&D roadmaps, science plans, strategies and sector deals, ARIA and two reorganisations of the UKRI, for example, but without overall coherence across the board.
I will make a few points on specific issues, which I am sure will be followed up by noble Lords. First, as I have said, despite a strong policy ambition to make the UK a destination of choice for cutting-edge research, the delivery of industry clinical trials within the NHS is in crisis. In addition to the impact on patients, this means less R&D investment in the UK. The pandemic obviously had an impact, but it cannot be ignored that the UK was beginning to decline pre Covid.
Secondly, the use of health data is an area of vast potential, but we have had several false starts, for example care.data and the more recent GPDPR incidents. The data revolution is increasingly fuelling new breakthroughs in treatment, diagnostics and patient pathway redesign and is a key tool to support NHS staff. Given its large and diverse patient pool, the NHS has unique potential to be one of the most effective engines for data research. However, although this potential is well recognised, repeated attempts by successive Governments have failed to make best use of this resource, predominantly as a result of failing to engage both public and clinicians. As a result, the current state of play is a disparate data environment, with many custodians, different access arrangements and a lack of interoperability.
The Government’s Data Saves Lives strategy has taken on board many of the recommendations put forward by Professor Ben Goldacre in his independent review. Stakeholders such as the ABPI, which represents the research-based pharmaceutical sector in the UK, are urging that this must be a comprehensive strategy that appropriately balances the need for effective safeguards and public engagement with the ability of accredited researchers to appropriately access data to perform valuable research.
The false starts suffered from a chronic lack of co-ordination and failure to integrate effective communication with policy development and technical implementation. Provided that we can learn from these past mistakes, pressing forward will significantly enhance UK attractiveness as a destination for research. Will the Minister update the House on the action that the Government are taking?
Thirdly, the key issue is how we make the NHS an innovation partner—one of the areas with which we are struggling most. The life sciences sector is a strongly interconnected ecosystem. An NHS that supports innovation is central to this ecosystem and for that reason is one of the preconditions of success for the Life Sciences Vision. However, right now, the NHS struggles to approve these medicines for use and to provide access for patients once they are approved. Just 68% of medicines approved by the European Medicines Agency were made available in England between 2017 and 2020.
Looking at the uptake of medicines recommended by NICE, we see that the use of these in the UK typically lags behind that in other countries for at least five years after launch. For example, between 2016 and 2020, UK uptake was 60% of the average of 15 comparator countries in the first three years and still below average after five years, despite rising to 81%. This is contributing to patient outcomes falling behind those in countries in Scandinavia, as well as the Netherlands and Spain, for example. Recent data highlights how the UK ranks 17th out of 18 countries for life expectancy, is the worst for stroke and heart attack survival and ranks 16th out of 18 for five types of cancer.
Supporting access to and uptake of innovative medicines is critical not only to delivering better patient outcomes but to creating a thriving life sciences ecosystem. It is because of this link that in 2017 this House secured the amendment to the medical supplies Act specifically recognising that, when enacting policy in the scope of the Act, the Government must take due consideration of the consequences for the life sciences industry and the UK economy that depends on it.
Will the Minister say what action he will take to ensure that patients can benefit from the latest medicines and that the NHS supports a thriving life sciences sector in the UK? Specifically on the UK’s vaccination programme, so vital in the battle against Covid, how do the Government aim to deliver their pledge to develop new vaccines within 100 days? Will the Government continue with their plan to sell off our flagship vaccine manufacturing centre in Oxford? Does this not fly in the face of an effective pharma strategy and send out completely the wrong signals abroad?
In conclusion, recent analysis suggests that effective endorsement and delivery on the Life Sciences Vision could generate an additional £68 billion in GDP over the next 30 years through increased R&D alone and deliver 85,000 jobs through increased exports. We can also ensure that new medicines in the UK continue to be developed, trialled and launched here, meaning that patients benefit from the most innovative treatments in the world. This should be at the heart of the Government’s priorities to deliver growth and place the NHS on a sustainable footing for the future. The Government must act swiftly and decisively to reverse the very worrying downward trends in our life sciences competitiveness in relation to the rest of the world.
Lord Goodlad (Con)
My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, on initiating this timely debate and thank the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, for stepping in and speaking so knowledgeably and authoritatively. As she said, this country is a world leader in the life sciences, and we now face serious but welcome competition from Europe, the United States, China and elsewhere.
An area of opportunity to attract increased pharmaceutical investment into the United Kingdom is dementia research. Dementia is among the world’s greatest health challenges. It has a large patient population, with many millions of people worldwide living with the condition and increasing demand for treatment. Currently, no treatments are available to stop, slow or cure the diseases that cause dementia, hence the pharmaceutical industry’s recognition of the opportunity and necessity for investment in this field. There have been research breakthroughs recently and there is now a pipeline of promising treatments. It is widely believed in the industry that we are at a tipping point for progress.
Over the last five years, we have unfortunately seen an overall decline in the number of dementia trials being initiated in this country and the number of participants in each trial. Government investment in dementia research, which is smaller than that of industry, fell from £83.9 million in 2018-19 to £15.7 million in 2019-20, putting us at risk of falling behind our global competitors.
The Government recently announced the national dementia mission, which will hopefully be a galvanising body like recent task forces in other fields. They have also announced a 10-year plan for dementia focused on supporting and expediting clinical trials. In August, they recommitted the £160 million of funding promised in the 2019 election manifesto, described then as the “dementia moonshot”. It would be helpful if the Minister, whom I congratulate on his appointment and welcome to this Committee for the first time, could today or, more realistically, very soon flesh out how these commitments are to be implemented. To do so would be an important signal to the pharmaceutical and global life science industries that this country’s ambitions in this important area are a serious reality.
It would also be a signal to the people of this country that the Government are serious about dementia, the leading cause of death for women for more than a decade and the fastest-growing health condition in the UK. As well as the suffering and distress it causes, it is predicted to be the most expensive health condition to treat by 2030. Dementia, directly or individually, affects very nearly every family in the land. Attracting investment and research into the condition should be a very high priority for the Government.
Baroness Brinton (LD)
My Lords, I too congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, on securing this debate and thank the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, for stepping in at such short notice and giving us such a comprehensive introduction. I also thank the ABPI, Roche, STOPAIDS, dementia awareness and the Lords Library for their very helpful briefing.
Four decades ago, I was a manager at Newmarket Venture Capital in the City. We funded the first wave of spinning out monoclonal antibodies. I remember one of the senior managers involved with it saying, “This will transform pharmaceutical treatments over the next few years”. She was right. A hundred years ago, my great-grandmother, who also had rheumatoid arthritis, had been told there was no treatment other than gold injections. She was in a wheelchair and unable to use her hands because they were so badly deformed.
Twenty years ago, I started on disease-modifying drugs and these days, along with many other people with my condition, I use a JAK inhibitor, which is a tablet that I take once in the morning and once at night. I used to have to spend a whole day in hospital having my infusion of a monoclonal antibody. We need to recognise the enormous advance in pharmaceutical work that has transformed the work of the NHS. It has reduced the number of beds needed and addressed a large number of other issues. But only one in 10,000 compounds and only 7.9% of medicines that get to clinical development actually make it to approval. It takes around eight to 12 years from initial discovery to launch, although I really hope that we have learned some lessons from the Covid pandemic and are able to start speeding things up somewhat.
Between 2015 and 2019, 43% of NICE recommendations were optimised for access to new medicines. This meant that they were recommended for a smaller patient population than the medicine had originally been approved for by either the European Medicines Agency or the MHRA. Of those optimised recommendations, around two-thirds recommended treatment in less than half the approved population. So, from a patient perspective, in the UK, a large number of patients are not getting access to the treatments that have been approved. The uptake of new medicines is a major concern. For more than 75 medicines recommended by NICE and launched between 2013 and 2019, the per capita utilisation in the first three years was around 64%, which was around the average in 15 comparator countries.
I want to focus on advanced therapy medicine products, the use of data and the voluntary pricing system, also known as VPAS. Advanced therapy medicine products are new, revolutionary medicines based on genes, tissues or cells and have the potential to save, lengthen and improve patients’ lives by treating the root cause of diseases. But they present challenges to health systems because they are so different from traditional medicines. Because they are used as a one-time-only treatment, they have a very high up-front cost, particularly if it takes 10 to 12 years to develop them and possibly up to £1 billion in research costs.
Currently, only a very small number of ATMP treatments are on the market and the NHS is managing to provide access despite these challenges. But, looking at monoclonal antibodies and the way that they are used now, it is likely that ATMPs will become the go-to drug for the future. Unfortunately, already we are behind other countries such as France, which is taking a very forward-facing example. France introduced a measure in its 2023 social security financing bill to allow innovative payment models to be used for ATMPs to share the risk between the manufacturer and the healthcare system.
We must not forget the transformative use of global pharma R&D, especially that which has been developed in the UK, in the spend on the wider world. It is one of the big lessons that we learned from the Covid pandemic. Oxford’s early R&D for the vaccine platform became the AstraZeneca vaccine, but unfortunately those technologies were unobtainable and inaccessible to most of the globe. Many noble Lords present spoke about that in your Lordships’ House during the Covid pandemic. We must make sure that that does not happen again, so I ask the Minister, what lessons have been learned from developing these drugs and how can we share that technology, probably through TRIPS waivers and other systems. in the future?
On data, during the passage of the Health and Care Bill, many Members across the House discussed the use of patient data and the safety net that we needed, but there is absolutely no doubt that the NHS has unique potential, given its large and diverse patient pool, to be one of the most effective engines for research. The Data Saves Lives strategy, announced earlier this year, is a good vehicle to overcome these barriers, and it was very much welcomed by the pharma sector. In implementing the strategy, I hope that the Government and the NHS will work to ensure that the national trusted research environment is fit for purpose, and has the necessary functionality to enable safe, high-quality research and the use of advanced analytical tools to derive insights. I am particularly concerned about this after the patient data—the care.data—and the GP data débâcles of this year and five years ago. It is really important that patients’ data can be protected.
Briefly, on VPAS, the Voluntary Scheme for Branded Medicines Pricing and Access between the UK Government and the pharmaceutical industry has historically been very useful, but Roche says that fluctuations of spend are now causing a rapid increase in VPAS payment rates, undermining the industry’s ability to sustain and invest in the UK. There has been a 10% jump from 5% to 15% over the last year and, worryingly, there is a projection that this may increase to over 30% next year. The worry is that this will impact the whole of the sector. Can the Minister say whether the Government are discussing VPAS with the extended life sciences sector?
Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)
My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Hunt of Kings Heath, for securing this debate, and the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, for so effectively introducing it.
I start this debate from a philosophically different position from other speakers. What we in the UK— and the world—need is not just or even primarily the most effective, efficient pharmaceutical research and development; more than that, we need the best possible health research and development, which often may not involve pharmaceuticals at all but instead improving public health by addressing the social and environmental determinants of health, so pharmaceuticals are needed less and can be reserved—saved—for the most essential, important and unavoidable uses, some of which the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, just outlined. The noble Lord, Lord Goodlad, just focused on dementia, but of course huge and increasing amounts of research show that addressing issues such as diet, exercise and air pollution can have a tremendous impact on reducing the impact of dementia, and we must not forget that focus.
We are now living in the age of shocks. We have already had one pandemic shock in Covid-19, still continuing, both in the spread of the SARS-CoV-2 virus and the huge and little-understood impacts of long Covid, and we know that others threaten, including the avian flu virus that is cutting such a dreadful swathe through our wild bird populations—and the factory farming systems that incubated it.
So, were I to be wording this question, I would rather ask how the UK most effectively contributes to global health, and in pharmaceutical research—with our current academic and industry frames—we certainly play an important part. But some of our role should surely be to promote and support research and development of pharmaceuticals in the global south to strengthen systems there. I will restrain myself from venturing off into the disgraceful state of ODA funding, although I directly ask the Minister what assessment the Government have conducted on the dangers of the UK failing to deliver the support that others do to the Global Fund, given the assessment that the UK’s current plans could put over 700,000 lives at risk and lead to over 17 million new infections across the three diseases it covers?
What I will focus on specifically is influenced by an issue that many may have seen highlighted last week in the New Statesman in an interview with Dame Sally Davies, the first female Chief Medical Officer of England. It focused on antimicrobial resistance, on which Dame Sally said:
“I do wonder how long I have to go on pushing this. Have I failed? Well I haven’t succeeded, have I, or we wouldn’t be sat here.”
I have to warn the Committee that I am planning on pushing hard on this in the coming months, with the assistance of two brilliant senior interns, Julze Alejandre and Emily Stevenson, whose work is supported by the British Society for Antimicrobial Chemotherapy.
So how is this relevant to pharmaceutical research in the UK? As a rich nation with a well-developed health system, we need to provide a framework for drug development and purchase that acknowledges the need not just to look at the immediate impact of a treatment on a patient but its full impact on public and environmental health. How biodegradable is a drug, what is its ecotoxicity, and what will be the complete impacts of its development, manufacture and use? The Environment Agency has just started providing funding to a new research group looking at the impact of biocides and cross-resistance—but that is starting at the other end, after the damage has been done.
If we think of the UK as a place that truly seeks to understand the impact of medicines, both existing and developing, we can look to the pharmaceutical formulary used in the Stockholm region in Sweden, which considers not just the efficacy and safety, pharmaceutical suitability and cost effectiveness of drugs, as does the NHS, but their environmental impacts. Should not the UK, to provide “world-leading” research and treatment, be operating on the same basis?
I turn now to some specific questions, of which I have given prior notice, about the environment for research, development and use of drugs, particularly relating to the Government’s approach to the European Commission’s water framework directive, which sets out a watch list of priority substances. Once they are included on the watch list, EU states are required to monitor these substances, and the inclusion of these compounds helps to raise research interest in these agents, including their AMR selective potential at environmentally relevant concentrations. Until recently, the data used to inform selection of compounds on the watch list determined ecological risk based only on ecotoxicology tests, and it was only in 2020 that AMR selection risk was also considered as an end point.
Featured on the watch list, updated in August this year with five more drugs, are a variety of compounds with a host of essential applications, including antibiotics, antidepressants, synthetic hormones, diabetes maintenance medication and both human antifungals and agricultural fungicides. Can the Minister update me on how this EU update will be treated in the UK, and how talk of sweeping aside regulatory frameworks transferred from the EU to the UK after Brexit that has arrived with the new Prime Minister will be treated in this area of assessing water issues?
In the post-Brexit era and considering the potential risks of these pharmaceuticals on the environment and in terms of AMR, as a proportion of the UK’s pharmaceutical research and development budget, what is the commitment of His Majesty’s Government to ensuring that the monitoring and reporting of these pharmaceuticals will be done in the UK in a more robust, comprehensive and transparent manner? We were after all promised stronger environmental protections after Brexit. In addition, what are the Government doing to ensure that the results of these environmental monitoring assessments are available for researchers and healthcare providers so that they can make informed and wise decisions in choosing and developing pharmaceuticals that have less ecological impact and risk in terms of AMR?
A number of noble Lords will remember that one of the first votes that I called in your Lordships’ House was as a result of sheer exasperation at the Government’s failure to take seriously in the Medicines and Medical Devices Act, as it now is, the environmental, particularly AMR, risks of human medicines, to mirror the terminology in the Bill used for veterinary medicines. The Minister today has the opportunity to reassure me that, with even more concerning scientific research in the area since then, the Government are now taking it seriously.
Baroness Walmsley (LD)
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, for introducing this important debate so comprehensively. There is no doubt that the R&D and manufacture of new medicines already contribute in a major way to our economy, but it is also clear that there is considerable potential for improving that contribution in the interests of patients, the levelling-up agenda and the economy. However, as the noble Baroness said, over the past 25 years there has been a manufacturing capacity reduction of 25%, while other countries, such as Ireland, have seen an increase. We also saw how India produced a lot of our vaccines during the Covid pandemic.
Pharmaceutical companies can choose where they make their medicines, since they sell them all over the world, so what are the factors that they consider when deciding where to invest their capital and create well-paid jobs? Access to skills is important, as is the supply chain infrastructure, the regulatory environment, the attractiveness of the fiscal environment and upfront capital grants. Importantly, at this time of economic crisis, I should mention the importance of stability. In the past, companies have chosen the UK on that factor alone, even when other factors might have been better elsewhere.
There are many things we can do to make us more competitive. Ensuring that local communities have the right skills to attract these companies is vital and, at this time of pressure on public spending, the last thing we need to see is a cut in further and higher education opportunities, particularly in the poorer demographic areas.
As far as capital grants are concerned, the life sciences innovative manufacturing fund, £60 million over three years, is a small step in the right direction compared with our international competitors. This fund is vastly oversubscribed but could contribute to the Government’s growth ambitions. Are there any plans to increase it? The returns in increased profits, wages and taxes would surely pay for it in a few years. We must also encourage companies to increase their own capital investment in manufacturing capacity here. If capital expenditure were to be recognised within the R&D tax credit system, it would encourage them to invest more of their own money in the UK.
We need to get this right in the interests of patients, since UK manufacture of clinical trial medicines, for example, would get innovative medicines to patients quicker. It is really important that we do everything possible to speed up the time it takes to get new medicines to patients, because we are not doing very well at the moment. UK patients have lower access to innovative medicines than those in other countries, as my noble friend Lady Brinton said. For example, 43% of positive recommendations made by NICE between 2015 and 2019 were for a narrower population of patients than other regulators. Even when medicines are cleared by NICE, five years after they are approved for the NHS they are reaching only 64% of the patients reached by other nations. This could be because we spend less on medicines than other countries—9% of the healthcare budget, the lowest in the G7, compared with the average of 14% to 18%.
I now turn to clinical trials, which are so important to getting cutting-edge medicines to patients. In the last four years the UK has slipped down the international rankings for the number of clinical trials and the number of patients taking part, despite the Government’s declared ambition to make us a go-to country. The number of patients involved has almost halved during that period. This represents a cost to the NHS of around £447 million in the last financial year alone. Given that we heard from NHSE’s chief financial officer than the NHS is now short of £20 billion per year simply due to inflation in the cost of goods and services unless it can make serious cuts, surely the opportunity to save money by hosting more clinical trials is almost irresistible.
However, one of the problems is capacity. We have lost thousands of beds over recent years, as recognised by the Government recently in their announcement of 7,000 new ones. We have lost thousands of staff and are not training enough to take their place. Without adequate numbers of health professionals, we will not be able to host these beneficial clinical trials. That is why your Lordships focused so hard on the need for effective workforce planning during the passage of the Health and Care Act 2022.
The effect of this on patients is central to why we must improve their access to potentially life-saving treatments—but it is actually diminishing, partly because the setting-up time of trials is so slow. This also discourages companies, of course, despite the attractiveness of the NHS with its enormous cohort of patients. Relevant to the levelling-up agenda is the discrepancy between patients’ access to clinical trials in different parts of the UK. Cancer Research UK found that cancer patients in west London were 71% more likely to have opportunities to take part in research than patients in Cheshire and Merseyside.
I share the concern of the noble Lord, Lord Goodlad, about Alzheimer’s and dementia research. There is huge potential here for the UK to become a global leader—but again we are lagging behind. Over the past five years we have seen a decline in the number of dementia clinical trials taking place in the UK, and the number of participants. Since 2020, the number of phase 3 trials has increased in Germany, France and Italy but fallen here. So can I ask the Minister whether the Government are still committed to the £160 million of funding promised in their manifesto and recommitted to in August this year? Will the Government adhere to the recently announced national dementia mission? I ask because they have dropped so many other very important health-related measures which had been agreed by Parliament. I refer to the mental health Bill, the anti-smoking strategy following the Khan review, the health disparities White Paper and all the anti-obesity measures in the Health and Care Act—which we appear to have wasted our time on.
Looking forward, there are several other areas of research that show great promise and in which we have an opportunity to lead the world. My noble friend has talked about advanced gene and cell therapies. Those should be made and trialled here to make the most of the economic opportunities as well as the benefits for patients.
Lord Patel (CB)
My Lords, I might end up repeating some things that have already been said, but that will just reinforce the important aspects of this debate. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, for initiating it, and the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, for introducing it.
I was going to try to focus on two things. One was clinical trials and the other was potential research into dementia. We know that clinical trials are an important part of domestic R&D, an important source of revenue for the NHS and a critical way of delivering early access to promising treatments for patients. As has already been mentioned, in the 2018-19 financial year, in addition to the revenue generated, there were £30 million of pharmaceutical product cost savings from trials supported by the NIHR clinical trials network. Numerous studies have also shown that research-active NHS facilities deliver better patient outcomes.
It has already been said that the UK has slipped down the global rankings and our reputation as a reliable destination to locate clinical trials is taking a hit. The National Institute for Health and Care Research found that there were about 28,000 participants recruited into clinical trials in 2021-22, compared with over 50,000 in 2017-18, and patients in different parts of the country, as the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, has already mentioned, have wildly varying experiences of being able to participate in research. The noble Baroness gave the particular example of cancer research. As she said, cancer patients in west London are 71% more likely to be asked to take part compared with those in some other areas. That is quite shocking, because cancer research trials were one area where we excelled.
The pandemic obviously had an impact on this decline. R&D leaders in the NHS estimate—again, as the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, mentioned—that we lost something of the order of £0.5 billion. But it cannot be ignored that the UK was beginning to decline pre Covid, and our post-pandemic recovery is lagging behind that of other countries. Even Spain has now overtaken us in the world ranking of clinical trials. We are now number 8, whereas some years ago we were number 2.
There are ways that we can tackle this, including by streamlining the slow set-up of recruitment to studies. So can I ask the Minister what the Government are doing to prioritise the recovery of industry clinical trials in the UK and ensure that research is embedded as part of routine NHS care across the whole of the UK? I think he has a golden opportunity as a new Minister to get some people into his office and demand that we change this declining position. Clinical trials should be a key part of our NHS research agenda.
I will now return to some aspects of dementia research that the noble Lord, Lord Goodlad, mentioned. It is the ambition in the life sciences vision of the Government to escalate novel treatments for dementia. As has already been mentioned, Alzheimer’s Research UK is concerned that the government commitment to research into Alzheimer’s is now slowing—to put it mildly. We know that dementia is the world’s biggest health challenge, with almost 1 million people in the United Kingdom alone suffering, and we know the heartbreak it causes not just to individuals but to their families.
Traditionally, this area has been risky for investment, but the commitment of dementia researchers over many years has led to some recent scientific breakthroughs and a growing pipeline of new treatments in clinical trials from which we in the United Kingdom are not benefiting. In recent news, a treatment called Lecanemab has shown in initial phase 3 clinical trials that it can slow down patients’ decline in memory and thinking. It is very promising. Taking these together, this means that dementia research is at a tipping point of progress. Continued life science investment is crucial to delivering the safe and effective treatments that people with dementia desperately need.
Over the past five years, we have seen an overall decline in the number of dementia trials being initiated in the UK and the number of participants in each trial. The noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, mentioned how Germany, France and other countries have outstripped us in initiating dementia clinical trials, which is sad to have to admit. One of the reasons is that as a country we identify the problem at a later stage of the disease. We currently diagnose people with dementia too late, so their condition has progressed beyond the point where they are eligible to take part in clinical research. There is therefore a need for the NHS to address the diagnostics of dementia. Again, the point has already been made about government investment, which declined from 2018-19 to 2019-20. So the plea for the Government to have a plan to focus attention on dementia research is well made and I hope the Minister will say whether the Government have a plan to take forward research in dementia as identified in the Life Sciences Vision report of July 2021.
Lord Kakkar (CB)
My Lords, I apologise for not having added my name to the list. I was responsible for chairing a meeting elsewhere and did not anticipate finishing on time. I am grateful for the indulgence of noble Lords in permitting me to intervene in the gap. In so doing, I declare my interests as chairman of King’s Health Partners and of the Office for Strategic Coordination of Health Research and as an active researcher with studies in the national research portfolio.
I, too, thank the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, for introducing this debate so thoughtfully, building, of course, on the immense contributions the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, has made over many years in debates on this question.
I shall confine my comments to the increasing problem that the deteriorating performance in clinical research in our country is having on the capacity to invite inward investment in research and development, as we have heard in this debate.
The National Institute for Health and Care Research is responsible for the application of public funds to ensure that there is infrastructure and capacity available within the clinical research network to deliver our national research portfolio. Is the Minister content that the public funding made available to NIHR to establish that infrastructure and create that capacity in the CRN is appropriately applied? Of course, the NIHR has recognised that there are currently important problems in the delivery of clinical research and is trying to take steps to ensure that the rather bloated national portfolio of approved studies is reduced in some way by the removal of studies that are identified to be underperforming or poorly performing. But this action itself has a profound impact on the perception of the standing of our country as a suitable location for inward investment of research funding to undertake clinical trials. Are His Majesty’s Government content that the approach being taken with regard to management of the portfolio and the problems associated with the size of the portfolio that predate Covid are the appropriate steps? Are appropriate measures being taken to ensure that there is no perceptional impact in terms of reducing the attractiveness of the United Kingdom for overseas funding for clinical research in such a way that it undermines the overall life sciences vision and strategy?
It is important to try to understand where the application of funding to drive the clinical research effort nationally is being directed. Again, can the Minister confirm that there is an appropriate mapping of the populations where the research effort and opportunity might be achieved against where the infrastructure funding to deliver that research is being applied, so that there is a targeted approach that ensures that maximum capacity is delivered, particularly in the medium term, to overcome these particular clinical research problems?
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Markham) (Con) (Maiden Speech)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, and the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, for arranging the debate on this vitally important topic. Despite this being the fifth time that I have spoken in the last four days, this is technically my maiden speech. I believe it is customary to start with a few personal remarks, and if that means that I go slightly over time, I beg the indulgence of being given time to make sure that I answer the points properly as well.
First, I thank Black Rod, the staff and the police for my fantastic introduction. I thank my noble friend Lord Nash for his encouragement for me to join the Lords, my noble friend Lord Courtown for his last-minute introduction of me when he had to step in, and my noble friend Lord Kamall, whom I have known since university in 1988. I thank all noble Lords for the kindness that they have shown me, and their welcomes. I especially thank the doorkeepers, who were fantastic to my family on the day of the introduction and have been fantastic at preventing me getting too lost in the myriad corridors.
On a personal note, I am the product of a very loving family. My grandparents and mum were nurses. My dads—I had two dads, for reasons I will tell noble Lords at some later stage—were a policeman and an advertising executive. My wife is a dentist. I went to the local comprehensive school and spent much of my life in and out of A&E—and continue to do so because I still, perhaps unwisely, play rugby. As a result, I like to think that I am very much the product of the public sector and the public system.
I have three children, whom I want to mention so that they are in Hansard: Ben, Sam and Xavi, who are surprised and bemused to now be known as “Honourables”. I have had a very varied career, and I hope to use that experience to add value to a lot of these debates. I have been a CEO, a CFO, an HR director, a strategy director and a chair in lots of different industries, including consulting, retail, media, health and construction. More recently, I have been an entrepreneur in many different fields. At the same time, I have had public sector experience: I was deputy leader of Westminster Council and have been the lead NED on MHCLG and DfT, and worked with the Department for Work and Pensions. I could be seen as a veritable jack of all trades—and if I could master one, it would probably be capturing the language of the House as quickly as possible. I ask noble Lords to forgive me while I learn.
Most of all, I want to talk about the type of Minister that I would like to be. I love learning about new industries, sharing ideas and using critical and constructive challenge to make better decisions. I like to say, “Two plus two equals five”. Noble Lords will find me wanting to share my thoughts and ideas and to hear and discuss theirs, ideally sitting around a table. I must admit that I find this a bit weird. There are a lot of good comments here about how we all want to grow the industry, and I would usually do this around a round table with a cup of coffee, where we are having a good discussion. Maybe that is something we can do as a follow-up to this.
I like to hear and share ideas. I know that sharing my thoughts at an early stage may sometimes get me into trouble—I like to brainstorm—and create many opportunities for people to make political hay, but I want to take that risk because, in our hearts, I think we are all here because we care about our country and want to make it a better place. I put my trust in your Lordships to share some of those thoughts at an early stage so that you can, hopefully, build on some of the good thoughts and politely help me discard the poor ones—I promise there will be many of those—and not to make too much political hay along the way, except maybe on some of the ideas that may be more naive.
Most of all, I would like to be known as a thoughtful Minister, someone who thought, listened and got things done. Part of the reason I am delighted is that I realise I will be here, hopefully, for many years and will make many friends along the way from all sides of the House. I was given this tie by the noble Lord, Lord Alli, 20 years ago on my birthday when I used to work with him at ITV. I still consider him a friend and hope to make many more here.
Turning to the subject at hand, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, and the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler. I firmly believe that to achieve—dare I say it?— growth, growth, growth you have to pick sectors where the UK has an advantage and leverage them. I have some familiarity with the media sector. After the financial crash, there was a real push to say that it should be one of the sectors we did more about. We did very good things to leverage the key assets, the BBC and ITV. We built an ecosystem. We had critical mass around setting up the BBC in Manchester, alongside Granada, where we could attract the best people and companies. I see a lot of similarities in how we are talking about trying to create ecosystems here, which I will come to later. The BBC has BBC Worldwide, which was set up to leverage that fantastic institution; I feel there are parallels with many of the comments I have heard today about how we can use the NHS and clinical research to better effect.
Life sciences is a high-profile sector, as the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, mentioned, and it makes a major economic and scientific contribution to the UK. We have a long and rich heritage in this sector, from Edward Jenner’s development of the world’s first vaccine to our fantastic development of the Covid-19 vaccine. As previously mentioned, it is also responsible for £4.5 billion of R&D investment per year, which I believe is about 20% of the whole economy. It has led to such things as the £1 billion investment by Merck in the MSD UK Discovery Centre and the construction around King’s Cross of AstraZeneca’s £1 billion global R&D centre. Importantly, unlike many other tech sectors much of this wealth is spread across the UK and is not London-centric.
However, as noble Lords have rightly mentioned, we cannot rest on our laurels. There are many places where we should and want to do better. I would like to help us do so. That is why, as my noble friend Lord Goodlad mentioned, the Government published our Life Sciences Vision. I am happy to write later to say how we are following up on that and making sure we implement it. The vision reflects the sentiment of many noble Lords’ speeches that, to grow our proportion of global pharmaceutical investment, we must improve every aspect of the life science ecosystem.
I will address that by looking at four areas. First, as was mentioned, in terms of investing in R&D, in the spending review we have committed £5 billion for the sector by 2024-25. This is the largest uplift in public R&D spending we have ever seen. It includes a major uplift for the National Institute for Health and Care Research. The Government also committed to raise R&D spending to its highest level ever—£22 billion by 2026-27.
As part of this investment in R&D, the Government are particularly focused on investing in areas of global strength such as these. This includes £341 million for Genomics England, so ably chaired by my noble friend Lady Blackwood. We are determined to maintain our international leadership in this important field. Fitting in with a lot of the comments on the importance of big data in this field, we are also investing £200 million in a major new data for R&D programme.
Secondly, as acknowledged by noble Lords, we need to do more to make sure the NHS plays its full role. Amanda Pritchard, the chief executive of NHS England, has been unambiguous in stressing the criticality of research, even at times of great service pressure. I am sure we are all aware of initiatives such as the GRAIL blood test and the work being done on it. At the same time, I have had personal experience of the fact that in clinical trials we are not as effective as we should be. I think we all recognise this, and points were ably brought up by the noble Baronesses, Lady Wheeler and Lady Walmsley, and the noble Lords, Lord Patel and Lord Kakkar. I go back to my analogy of BBC Worldwide. Is there something we should be doing to leverage off the NHS more? It is something I would like to pick up further. Maybe we can have a discussion, perhaps around a round table, at some later point and share ideas on how to make the best of that.
Big data was another point brought up by the noble Baronesses, Lady Wheeler and Lady Brinton. We all know that there are fantastic opportunities in big data that we are not fully utilising. We all understand that there are lots of thorny issues around that, such as protecting patients’ anonymity, but at the same time there is a huge opportunity that we are not making the most of.
Thirdly, as the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, quite rightly pointed out, we need to make sure that the business environment and the whole ecosystem are as hospitable to inward investment as possible. I highlight the work to improve life sciences’ access to finance and to give a strong pipeline to SMEs. I do not mean just things such as the £500 million committed by the Chancellor to the long-term investment fund but initiatives such as the EIS, which I am sure many of us are familiar with, and the R&D tax credits so that we can get investment in at that vital stage. On attracting and developing the right ecosystem for all this, I would like to understand further whether there is scope to use our investment zones so that they can benefit this area.
My noble friend Lord Goodlad and the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, talked quite rightly about dementia and the potential of the dementia moonshot and asked whether we are really following up on that. I undertake to write to give noble Lords a full picture of where we are backing that. I was very interested in the insight of the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, about new market venture capital and how we get this capital into this sector. It is vital. Again, these are all points that I would like to pick up around a table.
As far as I am aware, we are aware of the potential impact of the VPAS. I have been a CFO, and I understand that suddenly hearing that your sales line might go down by 15%, 20% or 30% is pretty important knowledge; I get it. I know that we are undertaking a consultation to understand how to make sure that this system works going forward. I think we all agree that there are a lot of good aspects and agree with the intent of what we are trying to do.
Fourthly, inspired by the Vaccine Taskforce, we are delivering a series of healthcare missions focused on the leading causes of death and disease. These missions will fuse private sector ingenuity with the UK’s scientific excellence, drawing in significant private investment in areas such as dementia, cancer and mental health, which were mentioned by many speakers.
I particularly thank the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, for a lot of her thoughtful comments and for writing some of them beforehand. I realise that I am about to run out of time, so I probably cannot answer them specifically. I will be pleased to write to her. As an ex-economics student, I was interested in how she talked about understanding the externalities of a lot of the investment in drugs and their impact. I would like to turn my thoughts further to that when I get my feet further under the table.
The Government are confident that through Life Sciences Vision we will develop the end-to-end improvements required to attract an ever-growing proportion of pharmaceutical investment to the UK. At the same time, I hope noble Lords see that I, for one, am not resting on any laurels here. There is a lot more we can do and a lot that I want to learn from the wisdom and comments made in this Room. We will be relentless in picking up these opportunities.
With that, I once again pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, for securing this important debate and, in his absence, to the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler. I reiterate my commitment to serving the House and Government faithfully in my role as Minister for as long as I have the honour to do so.
Horticultural Sector
(2 years, 1 month ago)
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Baroness Fookes
To ask His Majesty’s Government what plans they have to support (1) careers in the horticultural sector, and (2) the role of that sector in protecting the environment.
Baroness Fookes (Con)
My Lords, I declare my interest as co-chairman of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Gardening and Horticulture—quite a mouthful. I shall refer to it only as a “group” in future. When I first took on the role, some years ago, I do not think that I appreciated the whole role of horticulture. I knew about the craft of gardening and production of plants; what I had not appreciated was that it embraced cell science, inquiry into new plants and how they might be developed, particularly those able to deal with climate change, arboriculture, dealing with amenity trees—quite distinct from forestry—landscaping and gardening design, and so forth.
This came to the fore in 2019 when an independent group, the Oxford Economics group, brought forward an interesting report which gave a very good indication of the scope of horticulture in 2019. I am not very good with figures, so I shall read them very carefully. In 2019, horticulture contributed £28.8 billion to gross domestic product and jobs numbered 674,000. Much more interesting was the scope for development that the report saw, provided that the Government and the horticultural industry co-operated. It reckoned that, by 2030, GDP could be £41.8 billion and there could be 763,000 jobs. If the watchword of the new Government is “growth, growth and growth”, I give them horticulture, on a plate, as a wonderful way of increasing growth to everybody’s benefit.
There are a number of worries in the horticultural world at the moment. One is that employers feel held back by a shortage of skilled workers. That includes not just the lower skills but many of the higher skills that are well paid. We certainly need to address this. I believe that, for young recruits, a lot of the problem lies with schools and careers services, which seem to me woefully inadequate in their knowledge of what opportunities there are for young people. Indeed, it is worse: sometimes I fear that they give a clear indication that they think gardening is only for those who are idiots and cannot do anything more. I put that bluntly, but I believe it to be the truth.
What they do not seem to understand is that a variety of qualifications lead up to degrees in horticulture. Recently, I went to the land-based Plumpton College in East Sussex, where there are a variety of qualifications at different levels, the last one being a degree, and every single person there, the principal assured me, would have a job at the end of the course. Clearly, there is scope for young people. There is another stream, of course, for those who are career changers, who perhaps need slightly different qualifications, but there is not enough time now to deal with that aspect.
To look at it in more general terms, I think it could be very helpful if the Government recognised certain facts which seem to me perfectly obvious but do not always seem so in government circles. First, all jobs in horticulture are by their nature green jobs—and we are supposed to attach great importance to that. Secondly, we need to ensure that the Office for National Statistics, which at this moment is consulting on the definition and classification of green jobs, includes horticulture in its calculations. Thirdly, the Government need to recognise that in the great 25-year environment plan, with its various goals, horticulture contributes to at least half of them, so it has a very important role to play.
I shall deal now with one or two more specific ways in which horticulture could be helped. Research funding for horticulture has declined in recent years to a scandalously low level, and it seems to be very much the poor relation to agricultural research. However, if it is to play an even greater role in developing skills and, more importantly, in the environment, it is vital. I hope that the Government will give strong consideration to real research funding. We have had an example in recent days; the new Secretary of State for the Environment has trumpeted a very new scheme which is to help horticulture in edible terms—the crop side—through £12.5 billion of research funding, matched to others, to develop high-tech skills and robotics. That helps deal with the difficulty of finding people to work on seasonal jobs, and ones which require a lot of effort, unless they can be dealt with in new, innovative ways.
Unfortunately, there was no mention of horticulture in its ornamental sense beyond a passing reference to the fact that a new government adviser is to be appointed shortly who will cover both sectors. I have to say to my noble friend the Minister: “This is not good enough”. I expect that horticulture in its ornamental role should have equal access to such funds and I hope very much that he will persuade the Secretary of State to amend somewhat this excellent new scheme as far as it goes, because it does not go far enough. I hope that I will not be pushed into the role in the biblical story of the widow whose just complaints the unjust judge did not want to deal with—in the end he gave way because she persisted and persisted and he could not stand it any longer. But if I am pushed into that, I jolly well will.
Let us look now at other aspects to mitigate climate change, where I believe that horticulture has a very important role. We all know about planting trees, but has anyone looked at the number of private residential gardens that could play a role in this on a small scale? I asked a Parliamentary Question about this: 1.5 million acres—I do not do hectares—in the land are there for the taking and that does not include parks, green spaces and great historic gardens. So, all in all, you have an enormous contributor.
Of course there is tremendous biodiversity with garden plants. It is very interesting: the RHS did a survey and found about 400,000 ornamental plants growing in gardens in the UK alone, but only 50,000 food crops worldwide. That gives an indication of the diversity that can be utilised in gardens. We are very worried about the decline in insects, because it has such implications for food production. I believe that gardens and green spaces could have a very good contribution to make. You have only to look at the Chelsea horticultural show and the number of insects that gather around the new gardens. I hope that that will be taken on board.
I will make one final point in the time that remains. I am concerned that new developments will often make short shrift of landscaping and the maintenance of plants. It is usually there in theory, but by the time they get to the end of the development, there is not enough money left. I suggest that there should be a special fund into which the developers have to put their money and then it will not be sent out to them until they start on the actual landscaping and maintenance of plants. We certainly do not want to see the scandal repeated of 100% of trees dying because nobody thought to water them in this hot summer.
I see the clock flashing so, although there are many other points I would wish to make, reluctantly I will have to rest my case here.
Lord Carrington (CB)
My Lords, I declare my farming interest as set out in the register and my membership of the Gardening and Horticulture APPG, so ably chaired by the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, whom I congratulate on bringing about this important debate. It is sad that there are so few speakers, as this touches on key, long-term issues such as skills and training as well as the overarching issue of the environment. Like others, I have received some very good briefing papers from the House of Lords Library, the Ornamental Horticulture Roundtable Group and the Horticultural Trades Association. The Library briefing helpfully covers the actions of the Government to address the issues of labour and skills, and innovation funding, as well as the 25-year environment plan. Of course, there are issues with the scale and timing of some of these measures, particularly in relation to long-term access to seasonal workers, but, broadly, we are moving in the right direction.
This afternoon I want to concentrate on developments in the horticultural industry caused by increasing and changing consumer demand that have implications for the sustainability of production and hence the environment, as well as careers and investment as we enter this new world. Horticulture is a very diverse sector, with many different crops, cultivars, growing media and planting material. It also involves processing, storage and distribution. Labour and land costs have driven much production offshore. This obviously gives rise to less stringent production techniques and more food miles, as well as less reliance on domestic production. The 2022 agriculture land use census indicates a 5% drop in the horticultural acreage and a 9.1% drop in the potato acreage. The best way to address this fall and associated environmental issues through increased horticultural imports is through affordable technology, a skilled workforce and innovation to meet demand. However, it is crucial that our new production practices meet sustainability requirements and environmental concerns.
At the same time, consumer demand is increasing with the desire for year-round supply of horticultural products. This is a further challenge to sustainable production. Two huge issues are increasingly important. The first is water availability, as drought conditions can either kill or severely affect the yield of crops and cause growers to leave the sector, or can lead to overextraction and environmental damage. The building of reservoirs, water usage efficiency and development of drought-resistant cultivars are obvious solutions. The other issue is that of soil fertility and health. Developing and implementing the best management practices to promote carbon sequestration and reduce harmful emissions is crucial, as well as introducing sustainable growing media to replace peat. This will not be welcome to some, but integrated pest disease management is crucial. Research is needed to explore innovative methods of dealing with new and existing pests and diseases, bearing in mind that consumers will not accept pesticide residues in food and toxicity in benign organisms.
Other issues facing horticulture are the rise in demand for fresh rather than frozen food, which has implications for produce restoration and hence quality. This involves much science, innovation and skills, as well as now the more problematic matter of energy usage. Associated with this is that customers expect year-round supplies of fruit, flowers and vegetables, which further increases the demand for storage and transportation. This will, I hope, lead to the development of new cultivars and production systems to extend the production season.
Your Lordships can now see the way this is all going, with the increasing need to invest in new and safe technologies. Automation is crucial. The use of robotics for repetitive tasks will reduce the unskilled labour requirement and the use of artificial intelligence will assist timely crop management. There is a huge role for research and development and the resulting technological improvements must be accompanied by the training to provide the necessary skills to operate in this new world. In this respect, I welcome the Government’s farming innovation programme and the formation of the institute of agriculture and technology, the brainchild of the noble Lord, Lord Curry of Kirkharle, which is due to make a presentation to parliamentarians on 24 October.
The other vastly important area in the horticultural world is breeding new varieties with precision techniques. The breeding cycle is currently around eight to 15 years, so the introduction of targeted gene editing is immensely important but must be accompanied by close liaison with the regulatory authorities.
Finally, coming back to the environmental element of this debate, it is essential that we move quickly towards net zero in horticulture to address climate change risks. In order to do this, the development of the innovative methods I have outlined requires Defra to supply baseline data on the environmental footprint of individual processes of primary production and subsequent management, such as storage.
The horticulture industry has no generally accepted assessment tools for conducting analysis, known as LCA or life cycle analysis. Can the Minister assure us that an LCA tool will be available to the industry which will quantify the environmental footprint of the horticultural processes so that we can develop and optimise crop production innovations that improve productivity and contribute to net zero horticulture? Getting this right is as important to the environment as trees, green spaces, gardens and those ELMS. With the issues of labour availability, government encouragement of automation technology and support from the farming innovation programme, farming and horticulture are looking at technological solutions, but they are greatly hindered, particularly in relation to sustainability and net zero, without adequate measurement tools. I look forward to the Minister’s response.
Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)
I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, for securing this debate and introducing it in an informative and lively way. I join the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, in regretting that we do not see more Members of your Lordships’ House in this debate. Perhaps if I point out that there were excellent briefings from the Wildlife Trusts, Buglife and NFU, that might encourage a few more to engage next time.
I had cause this morning to be reminded that on 1 November I will have an Oral Question on the importance of philosophical education at all levels of education for critical thinking. Had the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, not secured this debate, I would have been tempted to do something similar for food growing because while this question focuses on the importance of education for careers, I assert that in this age of shocks, with resilience needing to be uppermost in Government’s mind, everyone in our society being able to grow their own food—food security at its most personal and basic level—is a crucial skill. This would truly be education for life not just exams.
I say that as someone who has an agricultural science degree—admittedly I specialised in animal husbandry—but it was only in my 40s that I grew some of my own food and learned all sorts of useful things, such as that brassicaceae and slugs really do not go together and that if you put beer traps in a garden with a Staffordshire bull terrier who loves beer, it does not work out very well either.
This is not just a food security issue. It is also an issue of public health. In 2018, only 28% of adults were eating the recommended five portions of fruit and vegetables per day. The average was 3.7 portions and only 18% of children aged five to 15 ate five standard portions of fruit and vegetables per day. Horticulture is a public health issue. Indeed, this is recognised in the National Food Strategy, which has a target of a 30% increase in fruit and vegetable consumption in the UK by 2032, but that raises a key question. Where are these fruit and vegetable crops going to come from?
One aspect that has not yet been touched on is the potential for urban horticulture, which is largely overlooked in the national food strategy. However, it was historically important. In the UK during the “Dig for Victory” campaign, 18% of fruit and vegetables that the population ate were grown domestically in allotments and gardens. With more than 84% of the population in the UK now living in cities and towns, this is an area we need to look at, and that requires education. A study in Sheffield, admittedly a very green city, showed that if domestic gardens and potential and existing sites for allotments and community gardens were utilised, Sheffield could be 122% self-sufficient in vegetables and fruit.
Education does not necessarily have to be in a formal context. I credit the organisation Incredible Edible with having done an enormous amount. There are now more than 100 groups in the UK and many around the world educating people in food growing through informal elements. But when we are talking about education for commercial growing, I want to focus, too, on the excellent work done by the Kindling Trust in Manchester. Its figures and those from the Royal Horticultural Society show that the number of applicants for work-based training programmes have reached the highest numbers in decades. There is a huge demand from people who want to get into horticulture, but many of them, rather than simply seeking a job in horticulture, want to set up their own small businesses or join a co-operative with a small number of like-minded people to produce vegetables and fruit. Doing that requires one crucial thing—access to land. Access to land to be able to start those small businesses for people to develop those skills is a huge, pressing issue that desperately needs to be addressed.
We need to think about the human resources. We have long been stuck on the idea of finding people jobs, but that thinking is being turned around in all sectors. Earlier today in your Lordships’ House, we were talking about the shortage of people for the social care sector. The human resources of time, energy and talent are scarce resources and we need to use them well, and horticulture is a space where we can do that. Maybe we need a large-scale training programme to convert financial sector workers into fruit and vegetable growers. That would be a good use of human resources in an age where we have so much danger from our financial sector.
The UK is only 18% self-sufficient in fruit and 55% self-sufficient in fresh vegetables. The vegetable figure has declined 16 percentage points over the past two decades. We must ask ourselves what right we have to rely on other people’s scarce water supplies to produce our fruit and vegetables in ways that may destroy other people’s soils and involve human rights abuses and abusive labour conditions. There is a huge responsibility for us to take the kind of actions that the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, outlined. The Food Foundation calculated that if everyone in the UK ate five portions of fruit and vegetables a day, we would be 2.1 million tonnes annually short of the supplies that we need for the UK. Yet as work from Sheffield shows, it is perfectly possible to grow enough vegetables and fruit here in the UK: we have simply not devoted the land or human resources to doing that.
I thank the noble Baroness for stressing the environmental aspects of horticulture, as well as the need for skills and education. Buglife’s briefing focuses particularly on the risk of invasive, non-native species and risk of the trade in pot plants. We tend to focus on fruit and vegetables in horticulture, but growing trees for the reforestation that we need and even growing the plants that enliven our homes and public spaces is crucial. We currently import £1 billion-worth of live plants and planting materials. That is not only a lost economic opportunity for the UK; it presents an enormous threat in terms of imported diseases and species. Buglife notes that the invasion of non-native flatworms risks reducing local earthworm populations by 20%. People knowing about these things and replacing our supply systems from overseas with local systems are crucial.
Peat is an area of absolutely crucial environmental concern in terms of both climate and nature. We need to look at education, research and development to ensure that we end all use of peat in horticulture. The endless foot-dragging on the peat sales ban is an enormous government failure of this past decade. As an example of the positive alternatives, Dalefoot Composts takes 100% of its inputs from the Lake District, including bracken, sheep’s wool and comfrey. This is an agroecological approach to producing inputs for our horticultural sector. This is the kind of innovation, technology change and social innovation that we need, and it requires input of not just physical resources but human resources—time, energy and talents.
Finally, I also note the importance of real development in paludiculture. Even if we leave the soil sitting there on the peatlands, we must not allow them to dry out. We can be growing different fruits and vegetables—a diversity of crops—on those lands if we put the human resources in.
Lord Taylor of Holbeach (Con)
My Lords, I thank the Grand Committee for allowing me to speak in the gap. I should declare my interests. My family business is well known for its daffodils and bulbs. I am no longer active in that business, but noble Lords should none the less be aware that I was a professional horticulturalist before I came to this place.
We also grow a substantial acreage of brassicas and potatoes. There is a link between horticultural products in my part of the country, which is England’s Holland, or Britain’s food valley, and agriculture. As president of the Institute of Agricultural Management, I am very aware that science and technology that support horticulture and agriculture are key factors in the future growing techniques to address food security, not just in this country but throughout the world. I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Curry, who is my friend but sits in the other part of the House. I am delighted with the work that he has done in this area.
I hope that my noble friend the Minister can see that the horticultural industry is part of the growth economy. It involves smallish businesses but they have great potential, as my noble friend Lady Fookes, and indeed the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, said. The industry will need the support of the Government as they question things such as supply and skill sets for those engaged in it. Those in the industry certainly see themselves as key to maintaining and protecting the environment, making this world a better place to live in. They are indeed green jobs.
Lord Curry of Kirkharle (CB)
My Lords, I apologise for failing to register my name for this important debate and thank noble Lords very much for the privilege to speak. I will be brief.
The noble Baronesses, Lady Bennett and Lady Fookes, and the noble Lord already mentioned the potential for the horticultural sector. It is regarded by those in agriculture and horticulture as one of the most successful sectors in terms of its innovation and ability to very efficiently produce crops and the range of products already referred to. The scope is huge. It is almost irresponsible of us as a nation not to seek to encourage the further production of horticultural crops to fill the huge gap in our trade of horticultural products. If we were able to expand production here at home we would also contribute to the reduction of carbon and climate change, the use of water globally, as the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett of Manor Castle, said, and the carbon impact of global travel.
There are three key factors required. One is the labour/skills issue, which has been mentioned already; the second is science; the third is investment. As has been mentioned, I have been involved in the skills area through the establishment of TIAH; I am sure the Minister will refer to that. I chaired a really important meeting last week on careers in agriculture and horticulture in that regard.
Secondly, the need to invest in science is a constant process. We have fallen behind in our investment in science. A recent study that I have been involved in, which we will discuss in November at a breakfast, demonstrates that one of the reasons is the fragmented nature of the British science structure. It has led to a lack of communication and delivery of knowledge. We need to do something about that, and I believe that the Government have a responsibility for investing more in science.
The final bit of investment is that we on our farms and our horticultural production units need to continue to invest. The ability to use robotics is increasing all the time, but we are not there yet in terms of having robotic solutions to many of our harvesting challenges. I was in France on holiday in the Bordeaux area. Due to the shortage of labour—it is not just in Britain that there is a shortage of labour; there is a shortage of labour in harvesting crops right across Europe—many have now made enormous strides in harvesting grapes through robotics and new machinery. It is only in those vine-growing areas where selective harvesting is necessary because of the quality of the wine that they still use labour. We need to be able to do that ourselves in time; in the short term, we are heavily reliant on migrant labour. The Government need to address that issue.
Viscount Bridgeman (Con)
My Lords, I am grateful for the opportunity to speak in the gap. In France, as the noble Lord, Lord Curry, alluded to, there are at least four top-class horticultural institutions. I know of two horticultural institutions in this country that made great use of exchanges of students, up till Brexit. They came very well trained and worked extremely hard; they were very easy to get on with and, most of all, they provided opportunities for their colleagues to come from their respective institutions. The Irish, being a resourceful people, both north and south—I speak obliquely here—have ways in which to address this problem, but it is just not possible on the UK mainland. I hope that the Minister will bring this to the attention of Home Office colleagues, as this is one of the skill areas that needs to be addressed in future negotiations with the European Union.
Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)
My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, on securing this important debate on the plight of the agriculture sector and its role in the environment, and on her excellent introduction. I am grateful for the many briefings that I have received from various sources. It is important to become self-sufficient in food production in the country and to eat what we produce, rather than exporting it and then importing replacements to meet the home market. The noble Lord, Lord Curry, and the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, raised that issue. To do this, we need a domestic skilled workforce.
Following the Covid pandemic and lockdown, many sectors of our society are finding it difficult to recruit to roles that were previously easily filled, including in the horticulture sector. Some of this is due to the reduction in workers coming from EU countries; many returned home after the vote on Brexit and have left gaps in our workforce. Efforts to recruit a domestic workforce have not been successful. Vacancies are not just for those working directly on the land but for those at medium and senior managerial levels. For the industry to remain competitive and productive, it will be necessary to provide skills and training to provide a career path for those currently working in the sector and to encourage others to join the sector.
Providing access not only to levels 2 and 3 but to level 4 and 5 qualifications is essential. The RHS qualification facilitates 12,000 assessments per year through 75 approved centres. This is vital, since apprenticeships and T-levels would not be appropriate for all, but there are others for whom these qualifications would be appropriate. Investment in skills and training is a step in the right direction.
Fostering the correct environment for our UK workforce to prosper is as important as encouraging the overseas workforce to return. However, Defra seems to believe that automation, robotics and technology will solve all our problems—the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, referred to this—and science is important, as the noble Lord, Lord Curry, indicated. Although it is undoubtedly true that machinery, science and technology could greatly increase productivity, many functions can be carried out only by workers in the fields.
During the recent leadership campaign, the Prime Minister stated that she recognises that some jobs simply cannot be replaced by machinery, which is why she is a supporter of reintroducing the seasonal agricultural workers scheme. What progress is being made on this front? Attracting seasonal agricultural workers is important, but it is also necessary to have the correct workers available all year round. There are many instances of middle and even senior management of horticulture businesses starting initially as seasonal workers.
The removal of the SAWS in 2013, followed by the ending of freedom of movement in 2020, has seen a huge reduction in skilled workers in the horticulture sector. An integrated immigration policy is needed. This is affecting not only the large business that the Secretary of State plans to visit but the smaller, but nevertheless vital, businesses providing specialist food, plants and shrubs. The noble Lord, Lord Taylor, referred to the importance of smaller businesses.
I turn now to the effects of the shortage of workers on what can be classed as the public realm, including parks, open spaces maintained by local government, woods and copses maintained by the Forestry Commission, estates and gardens—some maintained privately but many in the ownership of the National Trust, English Heritage and other organisations. All require skilled workers who know the difference between a weed and an attractive flowering plant, have the ability to prune correctly and know when to do so. As this sector is not involved in food production as its primary purpose, it could be overlooked by government officials, but its importance is not overlooked by the public. Everyone knows the enormous benefit that can be gained by a family visiting a nearby park or wood for a walk and a game of hide and seek. A wander around a well laid-out garden covered with beautiful flower borders where the pollinating bees are busy on the fragrant blooms is peaceful to the troubled soul. At a time when a large proportion of the population suffers from stress, anxiety and more serious mental health issues, the role of formal gardens should not be overlooked.
For those lucky enough to have one, the domestic garden can also provide relaxation and enjoyment. It also helps create and restore wildlife-rich habitats in rural and urban areas. The rise in the popularity of television garden programmes is witness to the public’s appetite for improving their gardens. The planning and planting of a border can provide relaxation and enjoyment, with many visits to garden centres to choose plants and grow seeds, all contributing to biodiversity. However, my visits to local garden centres indicate that they too are unable to recruit the necessary staff to prick out seedlings and water and tend their plants.
This brings me on to the need for the country as a whole of produce more of its own potted plants rather than import them. During the SI phase of Brexit, many of which originated from Defra, some dealt with invasive non-native species, or INNS. The then Minister, the noble Lord, Lord Gardiner, was eloquent on the need for plant passports for imported plants and the protection they would bring for the horticulture and garden centre business sectors. However, a plant passport does not appear to extend to the soil in which the plant is grown. This soil can be contaminated and harbour many INNS, such as New Zealand flatworms and Spanish slugs, both of which damage garden plants and crops. The imported plant market is worth some £1 billion each year, but the growing material is not regulated. Will the Minister say whether there are any plans to begin regulating the soil in which plants with passports are grown? I am not an experienced gardener by any means and I have no idea when doing a spot of weeding whether I am digging up an earthworm or a flatworm. I wonder whether the robin hopping around looking for a meal knows the difference; perhaps he is cannier than I am.
The Government are currently engaged in fostering trade deals with countries with which we have not previously traded. Do invasive non-native species form any part of these negotiations? Does the Minister agree that the phytosanitary requirements of the UK are currently not fit for purpose and allow any number of invasive species into our soil to destroy our crops and insect life?
The noble Lord, Lord Carrington, raised the issues of a ready supply of water and gene-editing and I regret that I do not have enough time to deal with them at the moment.
Lastly, I come to the knotty issue of peat. Defra’s consultation showed that 95.5% of people support a peat sales ban. Peat, as we all know, stores 30% of all soil carbon globally. UK peatlands store more than 3 billion tonnes of carbon. Coming from Somerset, I know how important the peat moors on the levels are to the area and to the environment. Can the Minister say when there will be a total ban on imported peat? Until that happens, this issue will not have been tackled sufficiently.
As the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, said, horticulture is capable of delivering five of the 10 key goals in the 25-year environment plan, so it is by no means a poor relation to agriculture. This has been a wide-ranging debate over a number of vital areas. I look forward to the Minister’s response.
Baroness Hayman of Ullock (Lab)
My Lords, like other noble Lords, I start by thanking the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, for bringing this debate to the Moses Room and for her introduction, which was, as usual, excellent.
As we have heard, the UK horticulture industry is worth more than £5 billion annually but has been facing serious workforce challenges, particularly in relation to seasonal labour shortages and the skills gap. A large proportion of labour has historically been supplied by the European Union. This was mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell. The House of Commons Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee said that EU workers accounted for as much 99% of seasonal labour in the edible horticultural sector, which is why we are seeing so many problems. This spring, this led to record levels of seasonal worker shortages with businesses reporting shortages as high as 40%. This has the unfortunate consequence of fruit, vegetables, plants and flowers being unpicked. That represents a significant financial loss to UK producers, a reduction in our domestic production and poorer choice for UK consumers. If the industry is to remain competitive and productive, we must look at skills development and how we can encourage more people to follow a career in horticulture. The noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, talked about the scope for development that we have, so what practical support will the Government give the industry to support these aims? We are aware that the Government have previously announced their aim to reduce the sector’s reliance on foreign labour and to attract new domestic workers.
In March, Victoria Prentis, the Minister in the other place, stated that
“the Government has been clear that more must be done to attract UK workers through offering training, career options, wage increases”
and that Defra had been working with the DWP to
“raise awareness of career opportunities … among UK workers.”
Can the Minister provide an update on progress in this area? Have the Government carried out an audit or analysis of the sector to identify clearly how it can move towards growing more and importing less?
The Minister in the other place also talked about the need for investment in increased automation technology. We have heard a lot about this from noble Lords. Earlier this week, the Environment Secretary announced plans to boost homegrown fruit and vegetable production and drive the growth of high-tech horticulture. This is very welcome; the noble Lord, Lord Curry, talked about the need for increasing production and the noble Lord, Lord Carrington, talked about issues around increased imports. The NFU’s figures have shown that we are only 18% self-sufficient in fruit, 55% in fresh vegetables and 71% in potatoes.
However, the Government’s review also drew attention to the difficulties the industry faces in workforce recruitment. It stated:
“A long-term Seasonal Workers Scheme would help to stabilise workforce pressures in the sector, helping growers to better evaluate their labour needs over time and incentivising long-term capital investments in automation technology. While a new Seasonal Workers Visa Route has been announced for 2022 to 2024, the length of any future schemes should ideally match the period preceding the feasible mass-adoption of automation technology.”
The NFU clearly spelled out in its helpful briefing the difficulties facing the industry. With increasing competition for UK workers right across the economy, the temporary nature of farm roles and their rural locations make it very difficult to attract enough domestic workers to fill the ever-growing seasonal worker gap. The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, mentioned that the Prime Minister has said she supports expanding the seasonal workers scheme. I would be really interested to hear from the Minister what action is happening on these aims. What are the Government doing or planning to do to make a difference in this area?
Moving to the role of horticulture in protecting the environment, the noble Baroness, Lady Fookes, talked about private gardens and green spaces. I absolutely support her comments on this area. The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, talked about the importance of food-growing in gardens, how we used to do more of it as a nation and the access to land that will be needed if we are genuinely going to grow more. The Horticultural Trades Association has said that
“policy-makers are under-estimating the significant role that the UK horticulture sector can play in tackling climate change and achieving Net Zero.”
Groups within the sector have encouraged the Government to work with them on this. Can the Minister confirm what the Government are doing and what their commitment is in this area?
We have heard about non-native invasive species. Our trees and landscapes are under unprecedented threats from both new and established pests. Whenever I go back to Cumbria, I could honestly weep when I see the state of the ash trees. So many are dead and dying. We must look at how we can not only improve our biosecurity for the future but have a co-ordinated approach from government, industry and horticultural scientific research and development to tackle these threats and look at how we can deliver innovative and sustainable solutions where we have these terrible problems.
The noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, mentioned Buglife’s excellent briefing on invasive non-native species, so I will not go into further detail, but I stress that it talked about serious concerns around flatworms, ants and slugs coming in on plants. It would be good to see what the Government’s plans are to improve our biosecurity and phytosecurity in these areas.
A number of noble Lords mentioned peat. We know that healthy peatland can sequester carbon and support wildlife habitats, but we also know that it has become a source of greenhouse gases because much of it is in such poor condition. Along with the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, I urge the Government to act and bring in a ban on peat sales and peat in compost. We also know that two-thirds of the peat currently sold in the UK is imported, so a ban must include imports into this country because they damage global environments. In addition, a ban on horticultural peat sales would bolster the growth of new markets and supply chains in the UK and could create development opportunities in this country. Does the Minister agree that we have a fantastic opportunity to develop a world-leading sustainable horticultural sector in this area?
I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, in particular, for saying “paludiculture”. It was great to get the briefing on it, but I had never heard of it, so I was not quite sure how to pronounce it. Again, that is a very interesting and innovative technique. Was the Minister aware of it previously—I am sure that he knew more about it than I did—and it is something the Government could support? This has been a very interesting debate, and I look forward to the Minister’s response.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Lord Benyon) (Con)
My Lords, I refer to my entry in the register. I will do my best in the short time I have to answer the many questions that have been asked.
I congratulate my noble friend Lady Fookes on securing this debate and welcome the opportunity to respond on the matter of careers in the horticultural sector, as well as on the sector’s role in protecting the environment—a point she eloquently made. She is entirely right, as were other noble Lords, to talk about the wider benefits of this sector in terms of the Government’s growth agenda, biodiversity, net zero, well-being—which was mentioned by the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell—and of course for our food security. The Government recognise my noble friend’s commitment to this important sector, including through her work, which she referred to, with the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Gardening and Horticulture, which she so ably co-chairs. It is a privilege to have the opportunity to say a few words on this important subject today.
We are all aware of the importance of the horticultural sector to our economy both locally and nationally, with production worth more than £4.8 billion in 2021. Our climate allows our talented and hard-working growers to produce a wide range of wonderful fruit and vegetables. I am sure your Lordships will agree that, being a nation of passionate gardeners—there are 30 million gardeners in this country—we need, for want of a better word, to weaponise them for all the good that I referred to earlier which they can deliver, as well as, of course, for the aesthetic beauty of what they produce.
My noble friend Lady Fookes and the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, mentioned the importance of using unused space in gardens. I saw a wonderful scheme of garden swaps, where people who do not have access to gardens can go to those who have too much garden and grow food. It does not even require the transfer of money; they can pay for the space in fruit and vegetables.
We know that this is a hugely diverse and vital industry which we can justly be proud of, but, more importantly, it is one with enormous potential to grow. None of this would be possible without the hard work of our highly skilled and enterprising growers, and I am constantly impressed by their skill and dedication, which is so evident all around us, not just in the food that they produce but in wonderful parks and gardens and elegantly landscaped urban areas.
Perhaps more important is what they do for our economy. The horticulture sector faces an exciting but challenging, future. It needs to be sustainable and to use modern technology and practices that help the environment. So, it is now more important than ever that we make sure that these skills and this expertise are passed on to the new generation who are entering this exciting area of horticulture and agriculture and that they are progressive, professional and as excited about the opportunities as their predecessors. Attracting bright new talent into horticultural careers and having a skilled workforce in place is vital for the future of UK food and farming.
A career in horticulture is not what some people might imagine, as my noble friend said in proposing this debate. It is grounded in innovation and the use of advanced and ever-progressing technology. To be successful, it requires a good understanding of business management, climate and logistics—goodness me, we have seen that in recent years in trying to get food to market. Those skills too often associated with other professions but absolutely vital in horticulture.
By raising awareness of horticulture as an exciting and attractive career path, people will understand that the opportunities available to them in the industry are worth pursuing. That is where our friends from the Institute for Agriculture and Horticulture come in. I take this opportunity to acknowledge the tireless efforts of TIAH’s founding patron, the noble Lord, Lord Curry, in his work driving TIAH from its inception, through to its creation and into its current exciting stage of development. He referred to a meeting that took place last week that brought together this sector with others. We are working together and learning from the success of other sectors in how they stimulate young people to get qualifications that they can take with them through different aspects of their working lives.
TIAH is an initiative we have been supporting aimed at ironing out the fragmentation that exists within the current learning and skills landscape for farming businesses, enabling the industry to drive forward greater uptake of skills. TIAH is developing professional competency frameworks and career profiles to demonstrate the skills required across a number of agricultural and horticultural roles and where to access the training to develop them. It also works to raise awareness about the huge variety of rewarding and exciting career opportunities available in the sector. Currently, only production is within TIAH’s remit, but its long-term intention is to bring other elements of horticulture into scope. Collaboration, however, is at the heart of what TIAH wants to deliver, and the ambition is to ensure close co-operation with the ornamental sector in areas where there are common issues.
My noble friend Lady Fookes will be familiar with the work of the Ornamental Horticulture Roundtable Group and of course its ambitious action plan, Unlocking Green Growth, which she helped to launch at an event at which I was present. This looked at the opportunities and barriers that this dynamic horticulture sector faces in achieving sustainable growth which can be addressed through government and industry working collaboratively. The action plan identifies huge potential for growth in the sector, which could employ an additional 39,000 people by 2030 and be worth, as she said, an astonishing £42 billion to our economy. It goes on to highlight the wide range of potential benefits to society and the environment, including physical and mental health benefits for countless gardeners and all who use green spaces and nature-based solutions to the challenges presented by a changing climate.
We have an industry which, as a whole, can rightly be considered a green economy industry. That is why we in this Government are 100% on its side and are committed to work with the industry to maximise the sector’s potential. Taking up the challenge, my noble friend will no doubt have seen the reference to the development of a horticulture strategy for England in the Government’s food strategy, which we launched in June. This is a rolling programme that will examine the diverse roles of small, large and emerging growing models to increase domestic production and productivity in a sustainable way. While the government food strategy was the vehicle for the announcement, the HSFE will also include measures to support the ornamental sector in increasing productivity and domestic production in a way that enhances sustainability and resilience. We will primarily focus on the time period between now and 2030, but we intend that this work will lay the foundations for long-term impact beyond 2030 and there will of course be opportunities for industry to feed into the development of the strategy.
To award farmers and growers who produce environmental and other public goods and services, we launched the sustainable farming incentive in June this year. In that, we included the arable and horticultural soils standard. We also plan to introduce an orchards and specialist horticulture standard in the not-too-distant future.
As per a commitment in the England peat action plan, we have recently announced our intention—this answers the points raised by a number of noble Lords—to ban the sale of peat and peat-containing products in the amateur sector by the end of this Parliament, and we are exploring how to extend this ban to the professional horticulture sector. I was involved in conversations with the industry a decade ago on this. I was convinced at the time that the right way was a voluntary system. That has been proved wrong, despite wonderful advances by the industry. I applaud it for them, but they have not been good enough and therefore we are going to have to proceed with a ban. We are continuing to engage with the industry on making the transition to peat alternatives as seamless as possible. For example, we jointly funded research with the industry on peat replacements in professional horticulture. We will continue to work with the industry to identify blockages and help those who have not already switched to peat-free to do so.
The lights are flashing, but I gather I have a few more minutes so I will try to finish.
Defra has undertaken a review of automation in horticulture, a point raised by a lot of noble Lords, covering the edible and ornamental sectors in England. In addition to increasing productivity and horticultural-related innovation, automation can also lead to more sustainable horticultural practices. We published the report in July, and the government response will follow in the next few months.
I will refer in passing to a number of different points. The noble Lord, Lord Carrington, made a very good point about water usage. The industry is doing an enormous amount of work to try to limit the amount of water used in the production of food right across agriculture and horticulture. This is where government, the private sector and academia can work together.
We take innovation seriously. The farming innovation programme is part of a wider set of measures to stimulate innovation and boost sustainable productivity in agriculture and horticulture. We have invested £70.5 million so far through the new £270 million farming innovation programme for industry-led research. We announced our farming innovation pathways competition in March last year. Across the farming innovation programme, 47 projects are now live and more than a third are horticulture products.
The noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, talked about invasive non-native species. I assure her that this is one of my absolute priorities and a priority of my department. Our plant health experts do an amazing job. She is absolutely right to refer to growing media. I am constantly impressed by the work done to identify and limit potential risks. I am happy to talk to her in more detail later.
We will increase investment in industry-led research and development into solutions to help deliver net zero in agriculture and horticulture, including through the farming innovation programme. The Government are excited to work with the horticultural sector to meet these commitments to safeguard our environment for the future and leave it in a better place than today. His Majesty’s Government recognise the value of a thriving and competitive horticulture sector. I will try to answer any questions I have not been able to answer in the few minutes I have been given to reply. I thank my noble friend for bringing this debate forward and I look forward to further conversations on this subject in future.
The Deputy Chairman of Committees (Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall) (Lab)
My Lords, I should perhaps say to those patiently waiting for the next debate that this debate did start a little late and, on Questions for Short Debate, Ministers are guaranteed a 12-minute response if they wish to use it. I apologise to those waiting.
Corruption in the United Kingdom
(2 years, 1 month ago)
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Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb
To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the effects of corruption in the United Kingdom.
Baroness Jones of Moulsecoomb (GP)
My Lords, I thank noble Lords very much for coming today. It has been incredibly difficult for me to finalise what to say this afternoon, simply because I wanted to mention a current fiasco—a current example of corruption—and there were so many popping up that I had to keep delaying what I was putting into my speech. I decided to go with the Kwasi Kwarteng issue, because I thought that was a rather nice one.
For me, the point is that political corruption is absolutely endemic in our country, and we really ought to be ashamed of that. It is embedded in our system. We often fail to recognise it simply because we do not know about it, because it is covered up. It does a huge amount of damage. It damages our social fabric and individuals who engage in it. It is not all about personal greed—it is sometimes about corporate greed—but it is about greed, and it contributes to the growing gap between rich and poor. It also stops us dealing with major issues such as poverty and our climate emergency.
In 10 minutes I do not have enough time to deal with all forms of corruption, as noble Lords can imagine. For example, I cannot deal with corruption in the police, in prisons, in local government, associated with our borders, in the construction sector or even among Lords appointments, which of course would be a rich source of stories about corruption. I will deal with four types of corruption, and there is some overlap: political access, corporate lobbying, party donations, and procurement and privatisation.
First and foremost, and most obvious, is political access. In his previous job, our Chancellor held undisclosed meetings with—I could list them all—the chief executive of Saudi Aramco, the world’s largest oil producer; the chief executive of SABIC, the world’s fourth-largest petrochemical company; and the chair of Alfanar, an industrial conglomerate. Obviously, meetings with these people are absolutely fine and could easily be part of his job, but they are meant to be logged by civil servants. A government spokesperson said there had been an “administrative oversight”. It leads to the question: how many administrative oversights of this kind never come to light? Kwarteng was flown around the kingdom by various helicopters and jets, which apparently provided the opportunity for the oil company to lobby the Minister then responsible for the UK’s energy policy on opportunities for the company. Other points of discussion on the flights were redacted, so we do not know what they talked about. Although it is perfectly okay to take lifts, he really should not have taken them from private companies.
Then we have people such as Owen Paterson working for Randox as a second job and David Cameron using his inside track to lobby for Greensill. Money buys access to, for example, the personal phone numbers of civil servants, Ministers and officials. A recent Public Accounts Committee report said that it could not be sure that all the Randox contracts, which were worth £777 million, were “awarded properly” and that there was obvious potential for conflicts of interest. On Greensill, the Treasury Committee accepted that
“Mr Cameron did not break the rules governing lobbying by former Ministers, but that reflects on the insufficient strength of the rules”.
So we cannot hold people to account.
The public view becomes that there is one rule for people like us and another for them. Of course, it is not only things such as partygate, which showed a clear division on what people were allowed to do—it is also clear from the way in which the Government tried to change the rules to get Owen Paterson off the hook. This is systemic corruption, not isolated, individual corruption. We should all be very concerned. These examples are the tip of the iceberg—the individual cases that we get to hear about because of media activity.
My second issue is corporate lobbying, and its influence over policy. Uber spent £75 million a year on public relations and lobbying to successfully swing policies in its favour. Companies spend that kind of money only because they think that it will guarantee them a profitable return. Many second jobs that MPs have are actually a form of corporate lobbying, a value-for-money addition to the company’s PR budget that buys them the access they need. For example, Nadhim Zahawi allegedly earned £1.3 million from his second job at Gulf Keystone Petroleum. Again, this is not illegal—he can do that—but it is a much bigger and more damaging influence on our politics and policies than parliamentarians want to admit.
As well as individual companies lobbying, there is a network of right-wing think tanks that refuse to declare their corporate donors but launch policy reports on issues that directly benefit those donors. The media should be demanding transparency, and so should Parliament, when we see those policy institutes give us opinions disguised as evidence. Sometimes their members are even promoted to jobs in government. To quote George Monbiot in 2011, “Downing Street and government in the last decade has been completely captured by this network.” He is referring to the right-wing think tanks.
The third form of corruption, party donations, is more direct and visible, because big donations to political parties have to be declared. We can strongly suspect that the reason why we are still building houses and new developments without solar panels, without the best energy conservation standards available and without charging points or heat pumps is that property tycoons account for around one-fifth of donations to the Conservative Party. The reason why people are buying new homes and are energy bill payers rather than net contributors to the grid is because developers paid a toll of £891,000 to the Conservative Party in the first quarter of 2021 alone. The reason we are struggling to get a common-sense measure such as charging points for electric vehicles as standard on new buildings is that developers do not like it, and they pay good money to ensure that the Conservative Party listens to them more than it listens to climate scientists.
Is it not strange that oil and gas companies are getting new licences in the North Sea despite the climate emergency, or that they are getting £150 billion of taxpayers’ money which they have not done anything extra to earn, or that taxpayers are carrying the burden of that £150 billion for the next 20 years, instead of a windfall tax? Systemic political corruption has real-world consequences and real victims, so it is important to put this on the record now so that the next generation understands how Parliament did relatively little while the world started to heat up and burn in our climate emergency.
The fourth category of corruption, and perhaps the largest in terms of profitability, is the British system of procurement and privatisation. It has become a visible form of corruption due to the excesses of the Covid crisis. The system for preventing conflicts of interest failed, with firms referred to the Government’s VIP lane, a dedicated mailbox for parliamentarians and officials, where they were 10 times more likely to win contracts. Twenty-five of the 50 companies in this VIP lane supplied PPE worth £1 billion that was not fit for purpose, amounting to 59% of all money awarded to VIP-lane companies for PPE. The Covid purchasing fast track was open to abuse, and that is what the Government encouraged in the middle of a pandemic.
This is a reason why the Government are now burning £4 billion of unusable PPE supplied by donors and friends of the regime and bought with taxpayers’ money. This corruption was hidden behind a wall of lawyers, who worked on behalf of the Government to hide the most basic information about who benefited from the contracts and who they spoke to in order to get them. This is collusion or corruption and points to systemic corruption.
Of course, we are not immune here in your Lordships’ House. In June, it emerged that one Conversative Peer accepted £3,000 a month from a private firm to open doors with No. 10 and Ministers. Now I like open doors. I nudge a few doors open myself to help people. But I do not take money for it. I do it for people who cannot afford to pay for it, and I make sure that they get their voices heard. It is not a democracy if you have to pay for access. It is more like a Putin-style oligarchy run for and by the rich and corporations.
I think I am running out of time, which is absolutely infuriating because I have another two or three pages. Of course, I could spend all day here listing the problems and the corruption. We need this Government gone. I am not so naive as to think that that will be the solution to everything, because of course it will not. What we need is strong, decent rules and for people to understand that they are going to get caught.
Lord Sikka (Lab)
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, for securing this debate, and I fully agree with everything she said.
The UK is drowning in political, financial, legal and other forms of corruption. Evidence is all around us. Open any newspaper any day and what do we find? We find mis-selling of financial products on an industrial scale, rigging of interest and foreign exchange rates, pension abuses, tax dodges, money laundering and cooking the books. I have been doing accounting since 1968—that is a long time—and I cannot make head or tail of the accounts of large companies any more. They are incredibility opaque, yet the Government do absolutely nothing, and that opacity provides the cover to shift profits, dodge taxes and launder money. Whenever you ask questions in the Chamber, you get a standard kind of answer read from a sheet. Nobody really deals with the issues. We have phone hacking, diesel emissions, raw sewage dumping, insider trading and auditors such as KPMG admitting that they falsified audit files. Companies are filing fictitious accounts. A large number of small companies are doing that, yet nothing seems to happen.
The UK does not even have a central enforcer of company law. There is cognitive capture—not just capture, but cognitive capture—and regulators are pretty much useless. I shall give the Committee some examples. Between 2017 and 2021 there have been just two successful convictions for insider trading in the UK. NatWest is the only bank ever convicted of money laundering, and only because it admitted it. Despite strong condemnations in the courts, no big accounting firm has been investigated, fined or prosecuted for selling unlawful tax avoidance schemes. I keep asking Ministers to please name one firm. They always dodge the issues. The Bribery Act 2010 introduced the offence of failure to prevent bribery. The Crown Prosecution Service has secured just one conviction. The SFO has secured two. That was after the companies themselves pleaded guilty because of what came out of the US. Separately, Standard Bank, Rolls-Royce and seven other companies were let off with a deferred prosecution agreement—in other words, carry on as usual.
In 2018, the Government launched the National Economic Crime Centre to tackle what they call high-level fraud and money laundering. There is yet to be even a single prosecution. It is no good the Minister in response referring me to a plethora of laws. What we need is action, and that action is missing. The key reason for corrupt practices is to secure profits and high executive pay. The Government have absolutely no mechanism for ensuring that executives do not benefit from ill-gotten pay packets.
The state continues to fail to tackle corruption because it has a close relationship with big business. I am reminded of a quote by Adam Smith in his 1776 book, in which he says that
“the English legislature has been peculiarly attentive to the interests of commerce and manufactures”.
Some 250 years later, little has changed. This Government actually shield organisations which in writing say that they have been engaged in criminal conduct.
For example, in the US in 2012, HSBC admitted in writing that it had been engaged in criminal conduct. It paid a $1.9 billion fine for money laundering. It is a UK-registered, supervised bank, but it faced absolutely no investigation of any kind. Without making any Statement to Parliament, it later emerged that the Chancellor, George Osborne, the Governor of the Bank of England and the head of the Financial Services Authority secretly wrote to the US authorities asking them to go easy on HSBC. It was too big to jail and too big to fail—so carry on. And HSBC has carried on.
In how many other countries do Ministers cover up criminal conduct? It is certainly happening here. If we do not investigate these malpractices, there is zero chance of developing any effective laws, regulations or other mechanisms.
The Financial Conduct Authority and the National Crime Agency know that banks have been forging customers’ signatures to repossess their homes and businesses. I have had a dialogue with the Minister before; more than 10,000 pages of evidence have been submitted. Three years later—nothing. No action whatever. Even worse, the City of London Police fraud investigation unit is now funded by Lloyds Bank, which is no stranger to banking fraud. You cannot make this up.
A former Thames Valley police and crime commissioner said:
“I am convinced the cover-up goes right up to Cabinet level. And to the top of the City.”
That is the indictment—but nothing happens.
Secrecy is a key ingredient in corrupt practices and the UK leads the way. The financial secrecy index published by the Tax Justice Network ranks the UK as the 13th most secretive nation out of 141 countries. As I said, I cannot make head nor tail of company accounts any more. The rules are made by the corporate elites, auditors do not care—they sign and disappear—and there is virtually no accounting accountability or transparency in company accounts.
The Government’s obsession with deregulation has resulted in many small companies filing false accounts at Companies House. I have tabled many Questions drawing attention to that. Too many of these small companies are now fronts for money laundering. I have looked at the Economic Crime and Corporate Transparency Bill and it does not curb any of these things.
As the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, said, our political system is not up to the job of curbing corruption. It is available for hire to the highest bidder. Knighthoods and peerages are for sale. As Mohamed Amersi, who funded Boris Johnson’s campaign, said:
“You get access, you get invitations, you get privileged relationships, if you are part of the set-up”—
and obviously lucrative contracts then follow.
Too many legislators, in both Houses, are on the payroll of corporations, including those that are engaged in illicit financial flows. The inevitable outcome is inadequate scrutiny, laws and legislation. People can see that the system is corrupt and really needs reform, but I cannot see this Government reforming it—so hopefully they will make way for a Labour Government to do so.
Lord Evans of Weardale (CB)
My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, on allowing us to talk about this important topic. I declare an interest as chair of the Committee on Standards in Public Life, although I speak in my own capacity this afternoon.
I do not share the apocalyptic vision of corruption that some have put forward. In comparison with some countries, we are fortunate not to have high levels of visible corruption in the UK. We have a respectable but not outstanding position in the Transparency International perceived corruption index but that does not necessarily tell us the whole story. The trouble with corruption is that it is an insidious threat. It can creep up on us a step at a time, and once it has taken root it is extremely difficult to get rid of. We would therefore be wise to take steps to head off any further deterioration in our position in this country. While the UK does not have the blatant corruption that you see in some countries, we have clearly, as a matter of policy, turned a blind eye to the perpetrators of corruption overseas using London for business or leisure purposes, and this introduces a risk to the integrity of our institutions and our national life.
I will focus on two areas in my brief remarks. First, corruption is about the misuse of entrusted power. Therefore, those of us who have the most power in our society, including those in political life, must be seen to be beyond reproach where corruption or potential corruption is concerned. We have a patchwork of arrangements in this country to protect public standards, not all as strong as they need to be and some under considerable pressure. The Committee on Standards in Public Life made a series of recommendations last year to strengthen these arrangements, and I hope that the Minister can give us an update on when the Government are likely to be able to respond to that report. So far, the response has been very patchy.
Similarly, corruption thrives where there is a lack of accountability, openness and due process, so the reluctance of some in public life to give an open and honest account of their actions and the failure of some departments to meet their freedom of information and transparency release obligations is a matter of considerable concern because it opens a door to corruption. Again, I hope the Minister can give us some reassurance that those undertakings will be met in future. Once again, Lord Nolan’s seven principles of public life, which include honesty, integrity, openness and accountability, demonstrate their continuing value and relevance.
The second point I want to touch on is investigation. The UK, with a few exceptions, has a pretty good suite of laws and regulations relating to money laundering and financial crime, as a result of which FATF, the international money laundering body, gives us good points and good scores. In my view, the problem is that we lack the well-resourced and proactive investigation capability for breaches of those regulations, which is what gives the regulations their teeth. By comparison, the United States does not have quite such a comprehensive array of regulations but has a much stronger system for investigating those who fall short, and that determined and aggressive investigation ensures that the rules are actually followed more often because of the deterrent effect.
However, in the UK, what measures are in place, for instance, to ensure that accurate details are provided in Companies House records? Why are ultimate beneficial owner rules so easy to avoid and why does government appear to have been reluctant to implement them? Given the vast number of suspicious activity reports made by banks and other institutions to the National Crime Agency, why does the National Crime Agency have so few resources to follow these up and to investigate the suspicious activity that has been reported to it? That leads to considerable frustration in the banks, for instance, that they report activity but they very rarely get any feedback. Why does the UK Treasury not have the determined and aggressive investigative posture of the US Treasury, which has an impact internationally? Without investigation and enforcement, regulations are a dead letter.
I received an email last year from a British businessman, who wrote the following:
“I’ve run a software company whose role is to provide tools to those battling against fraud and financial crime. I therefore sadly have a ringside seat to the explosive growth of fraud and crime in our country in the last decade. Encouraged by tolerance of sleaze, the growth of unimpeded criminality has accelerated in the last two years. The UK is now the undisputed world capital of financial crimes of all kinds. Law enforcement is splintered into myriad organisations which all have no real mandate and no funding. Tax payer funded organisations like Companies House or Action Fraud are put at the disposal of criminals to assist their activities or prevent law enforcement. Known criminals directly purchase influence in political parties without any fear.”
I leave it to noble Lords to judge whether that is a fair assessment of our current situation, but it is absolutely clear that the UK has questions to answer. We are vulnerable to corruption, especially as we host so many corrupt individuals and organisations.
A useful first step would be the appointment of an anti-corruption champion to take forward the work previously done by John Penrose MP. Can the Minister update us on the prospects for that appointment being made? We could be doing much more to avoid sliding down the international ratings. If we fail to act, we will find it very difficult to reverse our decline.
The Lord Bishop of Leeds
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, for securing this urgent debate, unnervingly but possibly appropriately overseen by a rather Caucasian Moses.
I was pleased to see that the United Kingdom Anti-Corruption Strategy 2017-2022 and the Library note for this debate both begin with definitions of corruption. Broadly speaking, they define it in terms of the abuse of office or illicit procurement for personal gain—the misuse of entrusted power, as the noble Lord, Lord Evans, put it. That is reasonable enough, but I want to offer another definition. Corruption happens when integrity is reduced to expediency and principle to mere pragmatism.
Of the many possible examples we could draw to mind, we might fix on the years of complacent steering of Russian money through the sewers of London. Despite many warnings about both the nature and impact of this, it was financially convenient and politically cost-free. Then, once Vladimir Putin went off-piste in Ukraine, suddenly the language changed to that of moral outrage: same money, same people, same oligarchs, same “brutal dictator”, same banks—the only thing that had changed was the temperature and political expediency. Principles of integrity and transparency, the virtues extolled by Nolan, were frequently mentioned and comprehensively ignored when convenient money was involved.
In the wake of the Brexit referendum in 2016 and the tortuous years of subsequent legislation, the House heard many challenges to the abuse of language—the “normalisation of lying”, the “corruption of the public discourse”. Virtue received a nod while those in the highest power in our land sought to ignore both the claims and consequences of corruption. Corruption is not primarily about systems; rather, it is about character, both individual and corporate. What do we see in today’s papers? Reports in the Times of a letter from the chair of the House of Lords Appointments Commission to the Prime Minister and the leader of the Opposition asking them to avoid promoting candidates who are “unsuitable”. I do not need to name examples who, by virtue of their nomination, bring our polity into disrepute—money, power and influence.
I am not naive and I do not speak from some moral pedestal. Lord Acton’s famous dictum:
“Power tends to corrupt and absolute power corrupts absolutely”
was, after all, addressed to an Anglican bishop and related to the writing of history about the Inquisition. In fact, his point was pertinent to today’s debate. He wrote:
“I cannot accept your canon that we are to judge Pope and King unlike other men, with a favourable presumption that they did no wrong.”
That is why it matters when those with power throw integrity and virtue to the winds while enriching or protecting themselves. It is utterly corrosive of public ethics and the common good.
Earlier I referred to what I call the corruption of the public discourse. Corruption begins with language. The German philosopher Peter Sloterdijk writes that the nature of our public discourse matters because
“moral and political aberrations almost always start with linguistic neglect”.
Edmund Burke understood the powerful influence of abstract terms such as liberty or equality, which have the power to move people without enlightening them. Yet politicians who revere Burke also seem to see fit to defend draft parliamentary legislation that proposes to breach international agreements and therefore the rule of law, give unlimited power to Ministers to fill in the detail of skeleton Bills, see accountability as a nuisance and ignore conventions such as correcting on the record things that have, to put it generously, been misspoken in our parliamentary Houses.
These things matter. Behaviour and language are never neutral. The insidious truth is that corruption ignored, downplayed or spun opens the door to corruption elsewhere in both individual and corporate life. Why no ministerial ethics adviser? Why no anti-corruption tsar? Why still no real pinning down at a systemic level of cronyism, dodgy lobbying and unaccountable political donations that lead to personal reward? Why a laughing dismissal of hedge fund professionals who game a mini-Budget and make millions out of the economic and social misery caused to the rest of the population? No champagne parties for the losers. Why do we tolerate a legal system that is being run down, as if justice does not require adequate funding and resourcing? Why a Ministerial Code that reduced moral accountability on the part of Ministers? What just recompense for the public, whose money was used to pay billions in contracts to government cronies during the Covid pandemic? I will not mention the honours system.
All this is in plain sight. If we choose to ignore what is evident, we incur ethical judgment on our neglect. This is not incidental. If democracy and the rule of law are to mean anything, if integrity in public life is something to be honoured and not mocked, if public virtue is not to be shrunk into political or economic pragmatism or expediency, this Parliament must clean up its own act, pay attention to its use of language, show an example of transparent accountability in its vital work and demonstrate the power of humility in setting a public culture.
I have positive proposals for the Minister: set up an anti-corruption board with teeth and independence and appoint an ethics committee in Downing Street or the Cabinet Office with the power to hold the powerful to account.
Baroness Kramer (LD)
My Lords, I join those congratulating the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, on obtaining this debate. I wish it had a much wider audience. It really ought to be taking place on the Floor of the House because corruption, particularly in political life, impacts everything we do. I listened to the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, talk about the VIP lane that we were all aware of as a fast lane for friends and family to get PPE contracts during Covid. For many of us, that was almost the nadir of a collapse in standards. As we look far more broadly, every speaker so far has raised issues of that kind of corruption, all the way through even to our procedures, which now allow this structure of skeleton Bills and policy disguised in the form of statutory instruments so that it is not subject to refusal or amendment. So many areas need to be tackled.
In this country we are particularly vulnerable because we tend to be quite complacent. We believe that we, the British, may have our problems but we are so much better than everybody else. Having some real debate in the House, with major attendance, might persuade people that instead of resting on what we perceive as our historical and iconic laurels, we need to examine what we do in almost every aspect. I will pick up the focus that the noble Lords, Lord Sikka and Lord Evans, pursued and the other speakers touched on: the financial services sector. It is the one I know best.
The right reverend Prelate talked about the way in which we ignored the London laundromat. We tut-tutted about it but knew that oligarch kleptocrat money was flowing into the City and that it was a major facilitator, but until the invasion of Ukraine the Government were not particularly interested in taking any action. The legislation in the first round of the Economic Crime (Transparency and Enforcement) Bill had been sitting in an in-tray for at least a decade. It was ready to go and might, had it been introduced in time, have had a more significant impact in stemming that ongoing development of corruption.
When we passed the Economic Crime (Transparency and Enforcement) Bill, at the heart of which, noble Lords will remember, was the creation of a register at Companies House of overseas beneficial owners of property in the UK—one of the main mechanisms for washing dirty money—we put in place no meaningful verification system. I understand that there is some strengthening in the economic crime Bill version two, but I want to ask the Minister about that, because I am extremely worried that it seems to outsource to third parties the role of providing verification. I am not clear that there is command and control with the registrar of Companies House or whether the registrar has been given the resources to make sure that verification, which is critical, is effectively enforced.
I am focusing on the registration scheme as a narrow example. It relies heavily on enforcement. This issue was well described by the noble Lord, Lord Evans, in a broader context, because that enforcement has to come from the National Crime Agency. It has 118 staff in total to investigate financial crime despite the complexity of the issues. Frankly, the power of the enablers—the lawyers, accountants and property developers, all of whom are involved in money laundering—is often overlooked. They are capable of fighting back against any enforcement agency and making life extremely difficult. I do not understand why—perhaps the Minister can tell me—we do not say that at least some portion, if not all, of the money that comes from fines, forfeitures and confiscations of the wrongdoers should not flow back to the National Crime Agency, the Serious Fraud Office and even, when they are engaged with it, to local police forces because we might finally have a sufficiently funded resource to take action against corruption. We must also focus on those enablers. I do not understand why we do not have a failure to prevent anywhere that I can find in the economic crime Bill. They must be dealt with, and they must understand that they will pay if they engage in facilitating corrupt behaviour.
We also have a problem at the regulatory level, and again I will focus on the financial services area. Frankly, the Financial Conduct Authority and even to some extent the PRA are a busted flush when it comes to any kind of enforcement. I have two quick examples. One is HBOS. I sat on the Parliamentary Commission on Banking Standards and listened to weeks of evidence on the collapse of HBOS. It collapsed because senior management, including the last two CEOs, dropped credit standards to a ridiculous point so that they could grow their loan portfolio like mad, which of course resulted in very high bonuses in their take-home packets. They also funded the bank in the overnight markets, giving it no stability. The FCA and PRA came out this summer with a complete whitewash of the senior management. Obviously, a few junior people have been thrown to the wolves, but the senior management has walked away and has not being declared unfit. In the Libor scandal, which no one ever dares refer to these days, ordinary borrowers and businesses across the globe—because something like 60% or 70% of all lending was priced off Libor globally—will have last quadrillions of pounds, dollars, yen and other currencies in lending because false submissions were made to establish the Libor benchmark. Those submissions were deliberately falsified to enhance bank profits and the bonuses of senior bankers, and no one at senior level has ever been declared unfit as a consequence of all of that.
I am out of time but there is so much to be done. I would have liked to address whistleblowers, who are very badly treated under our current system, and I will say just one quick thing before I sit down. I ask the Minister to read my Private Member’s Bill on creating an office of the whistleblower to champion and protect whistleblowers. It is a mirror of a Bill produced by a member of his party down in the House of Commons. If we do not act on those people who are the citizen’s army that deters crime, we will never come to grips with the corruption that exists.
Lord Coaker (Lab)
I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, on securing this important debate. All noble Lords, including the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, have mentioned different aspects of corruption within our society. As the noble Lord, Lord Evans, said, we can argue about what the level of corruption is. For me, at the moment this country faces a crisis of public confidence in many of our institutions. That crisis of public confidence comes from many well-documented examples of corruption, misuse and abuse of power and failure to hold to account people, businesses and money. That is insidious. It is eroding and eating away at the fundamental principles of our democracy.
I say to the Minister, who will make a measured and reasoned reply in response to the debate, that I am pleased with what the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, has done. The system needs a shake up and a wake-up call. A surge of electricity needs to be put through it. There have been many economic crime Bills, ethics watchdogs and standards committee reports, time after time. I agree with the examples the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Leeds gave, but the frank reality is that it does not matter which Government it is—I want a Labour Government and I hope that is what will happen—we have to have somebody who uses that power to hold people and businesses to account in a way which means that they are not frightened of them but of the law and being held to account. That is the real issue before us. Where is the will within government, our country and the international community to take it on? We describe the problem, we talk about the problem, we say what should be done about it and what can be done about it, and it goes on in the way that my noble friend Lord Sikka mentioned when he went through various things.
The situation is incredible. As the noble Lord, Lord Evans, the right reverend Prelate and the noble Baronesses, Lady Kramer and Lady Jones, pointed out, it comes to something when on the Floor of the House—it is no wonder there is a crisis of confidence—just a few months ago the Minister responsible for tackling fraud resigned. I have his letter here. He read it out. He said that the Government were not serious about tackling fraud. It is no wonder the public lack confidence. The Minister himself, the noble Lord, Lord Agnew, resigned, saying the Government were not serious. He was not talking about the lack of law. It was one particular law, and he was talking about his belief about whether the Government were serious in taking it on and whether the system was serious.
I think the noble Lord, Lord Evans, and the right reverend Prelate mentioned John Penrose MP. He did not just move on; he resigned. He did not just stand aside. He resigned in disgust at what was going on. He was the anti-corruption tsar appointed by the Government. So the Minister in the Lords responsible for tackling fraud and the anti-corruption tsar resigned. Why did the anti-corruption tsar resign? He said that the Prime Minister of our country had broken the ministerial code and had not been—let us put it this way—forthright in his explanation of what had happened: in other words, in how he responded to the Sue Gray report. Absolutely at the heart of this—leaving aside what the level of corruption is, which we can debate another time—the noble Baroness, Lady Jones, hit the nail on the head. Many people in this country believe that there is one law for us—us, people in Rooms like this, the establishment, however you judge that—and one law for everybody else. That is what people think, and it is corrosive of democracy if we do not address it.
The Minister will say, “The Government are doing this, the Government are doing that; we’ve got an economic crime Bill and systems of accountability.” Why is it that, when all of that exists, people are seen to be getting away with it time after time? That is what people think, and if the Government, whoever they are, do not address that, there will be serious consequences.
This is not just about Parliament; people feel that way about many of our institutions, including senior members of the Church, the legislature and the police. People do not feel that they represent them in the way that they used to. Something has gone wrong; it is because they feel that the system is corrupt. It is not just about money; it is about making sure that your mate gets somewhere, and so on. People are sick of it, and then want something changed. The Minister must respond to that challenge, not by listing the Acts and the various initiatives that will take place but by saying what will be done about it.
I will use this opportunity to raise something that has always really irritated me. When I was a Member of Parliament in the other place I found it happened time after time, and other former Members of Parliament, and other people, will have found it too. We talk about one law for us and one for them. Why is it that, according to a report from TaxWatch just a year ago, if you are a benefit claimant in the UK, you are 25 times more likely to be prosecuted for benefit fraud than tax fraud? In other words, many of the poorest people in our country face more serious consequences for benefit fraud. Let me make it clear that no one should defraud benefit, before we go down that track—of course that is wrong. But why do they face greater threat from the law than many of the wealthiest, richest and most privileged people in our country?
Something has gone seriously wrong; that is what people think. When the Minister responds—whether this Minister or another, from this Government or another—people want a surge of electricity through the system so that it actually delivers what it says it will, rather than just passing various laws that make no difference at all.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Home Office (Lord Sharpe of Epsom) (Con)
My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, for securing this important debate, and I am grateful to all noble Lords for their contributions. I will do my very best to answer the points that have been raised. Noble Lords will appreciate that some of them are broadly philosophical, and perhaps I will come back to those in due course, and some I cannot answer. On the points made by the noble Lord, Lord Sikka, I am not qualified to opine on the accountancy rules; that does not fall under the Home Office, as he will be well aware. It is a Treasury matter, and I will be certain that it sees the contents of his speech and will try to get him a response.
The Government are fully committed to protecting our institutions and systems from those who wish to undermine or abuse them. Like the noble Lord, Lord Evans, I do not believe that this country is systemically corrupt, but corruption poses a significant threat to all democracies, and to our economy and security. The Government are steadfast in their determination to ensure that the UK has the strongest possible defences and upholds the highest possible standards.
Before I talk about some of the things that the Government will do, it is worth defining corruption in response to the point made by the right reverend Prelate. The debate has raised a number of topics which demonstrates how broad a topic corruption can be, so it is important that we understand what we mean by corruption and define its scope. Corruption is the abuse of entrusted power for private benefit that usually breaches laws, regulations, standards of integrity and/or standards of professional behaviour. Corruption need not be economic in nature and can still exist even if everyone has acted within the law. Therefore, it is imperative that we also consider actions that go beyond economic crime legislation and capture the broader elements of corruption.
Corruption is harmful in many ways. It threatens national security, global stability and development; it can amount to a hidden tax stifling the growth we need to get our economy moving; and it can undermine trust in our democratic institutions—a point that I think all noble Lords made. As the former president of the World Bank, Robert Zoellick, said so eloquently,
“corruption is a cancer that steals from the poor, eats away at governance and moral fibre and destroys trust”.
Corruption is far from a victimless crime. While the impact of corruption is often hidden, we must never forget that it undermines the efficiency of public services, weakens the security of ordinary citizens and hurts the bottom line of businesses. More broadly, as the noble Lord, Lord Coaker, just noted, it undermines trust.
All noble Lords have asked what the Government plan to do. I will go into some detail, but I have only a limited amount of time, so I commit to write to noble Lords if I cannot cover all their specific points.
Economic crime is undoubtedly a multidimensional and multifaceted issue. There is a strong correlation between corruption and economic crime, and we are taking strong action in that regard. The Economic Crime (Transparency and Enforcement) Act 2022 was introduced in March, containing key measures to help crack down on dirty money, including from Russia and other foreign elites abusing our open economy, and provide greater powers to identify and investigate the illicit wealth of criminals. These powers have been put to immediate use.
The Combating Kleptocracy Cell in the NCA was set up after the invasion of Ukraine and recognises a significant increase in the NCA’s operational capability. I have seen those people in action and am in awe of their efforts. About £400 million has been allocated to tackle economic crime over the next three years.
The Government are following up on this expedited legislation with the Economic Crime and Corporate Transparency Bill, currently going through its Second Reading in the other place. I hope that will deal with the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, about Companies House enforcement; among a suite of measures, the Bill includes reforms to Companies House that will bear down on the use of thousands of UK companies and other corporate structures as vehicles for economic crime, including fraud, international money laundering, illicit Russian finance, corruption, terrorist financing and illegal arms movement.
On strategy, the UK has long been seen as a world leader in dealing with corruption, from the UK-led anti-corruption summit in 2016, to the current anti-corruption strategy, which has served as a model for many other countries. Noble Lords may have seen our annual updates to Parliament on the progress we have made against this strategy. As they show, we have taken a number of important steps during the strategy period.
However, we know that the threat does not stand still, and we cannot be complacent. That is why the Government are developing a new anti-corruption strategy to succeed the existing strategy, which expires at the end of this year. The Security Minister will lead on that work as we look to build on the progress to date and make the UK even more resilient against the threat posed by corruption.
That resilience includes the overseas territories and Crown dependencies. They are separate, self-governing jurisdictions, but I am pleased that they have committed to upholding international standards and to having publicly accessible registers of who ultimately owns companies in place by the end of 2023. Gibraltar has already introduced such a register. I should note that this exceeds the standards required by the Financial Action Task Force.
The subject of standards in public life came up in a couple of contributions. The recent DHSC court case against the Government on Covid contracts ruled in our favour on all grounds. It showed the exceptional circumstances that Ministers and civil servants worked under during the pandemic to deliver impartial decisions to reach the best outcomes for the nation.
The Government are also working on their response to the recommendations made by the Committee on Standards in Public Life and in the Boardman reports. The Government have already issued new guidance on the declaration and management of outside interests in the Civil Service, and in July updated the House on progress made in responding to those reports, including outlining which recommendations have already been adopted. I will happily update the House on progress once more has been made.
On fraud and procurement, some issues overlap with standards in public life; I will go into more detail on those. Fraud is undoubtedly a significant and growing threat. Victims of fraud can suffer both serious financial and emotional harm, and we know that the money fraudsters make can fund other serious and organised crimes.
Public procurement is an important area of focus. Through the Procurement Bill currently going through Parliament, we aim to deliver a step change in transparency, with notices mandated for direct awards and publication requirements extended from planning to termination, including contract performance. This will embed transparency throughout the commercial life cycle so that the spending of taxpayers’ money can be properly scrutinised. Not only will this allow better detection of fraud and corruption; it will also enable better value for money and efficiency.
I will digress briefly on PPE, raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Jones. Contrary to allegations of potential conflict of interest in the awarding of contracts, the National Audit Office made clear that it
“found that the ministers had properly declared their interests, and we found no evidence of their involvement in procurement decisions or contract management”.
Our priority throughout the pandemic was saving lives. More than 19 billion items of PPE were delivered to front-line staff to keep them safe. The normal tendering process takes a minimum of 30 days; this was obviously not practical under those circumstances. It was essential that we were able to act quickly in an emergency. Under rules that existed years before Covid, contracting authorities are allowed to award contracts directly when there is a situation of
“extreme urgency brought about by an unforeseeable event”.
Obviously, Covid was that.
The higher-priority lane was one way of helping us to identify credible opportunities for PPE procurement so that front-line workers received the protection they needed. Ministers were not involved in the decision to establish the high-priority lane, nor were they offered a decision on whether this should be created. This was an internal process within the PPE cell, led entirely by officials. I could go on but I think that covers the principal questions asked.
I hope noble Lords will forgive me for leaning forward. Unfortunately, my brief is slightly between my glasses and non-glasses range so I have no choice but to do so.
Tackling fraud more broadly requires a unified and co-ordinated response from government, law enforcement and the private sector to better protect the public and businesses, reduce the impact of fraud on victims and increase the disruption and prosecution of fraudsters. That is why we will publish a new strategy to address the threat of fraud against citizens. Whatever form it takes, fraud is a despicable crime that we must confront with all the energy and expertise we can summon.
Corruption not only undermines trust in our democratic institutions, as all noble Lords have noted; it also creates vulnerabilities that our adversaries can exploit. We must remain alive to those risks, which can undermine development, stifle economic growth and threaten global stability. We must also ensure that we keep the protection of our national security at the forefront of our efforts while maintaining the highest possible standards in public life.
The National Security Bill, currently before Parliament, completely overhauls our espionage laws and creates new measures to enable our law enforcement and intelligence agencies to deter, detect and disrupt the full range of modern-day state threats. The new foreign influence registration scheme, which has been added to the Bill, aims to strengthen the resilience of the UK political system against covert foreign influence and provide greater assurance around the activities of specified foreign powers or entities.
Many noble Lords referred to the role of businesses. Business has a huge role to play, of course, particularly as we seek to strike new trading relationships across the world. We are asking businesses to compete in new markets and be innovative in their approach. This is especially vital in times of global economic hardship but corruption can be a hidden tax on companies, denying them a level playing field. This must be countered.
Lord Sikka (Lab)
Forgive me for this intervention; I will be quick. How does the Minister reconcile what he has said with the statement made by Chris Philp, who is, I believe, the Treasury Minister? He said that the Government will ensure that
“no business under 500 employees is subject to business regulation”
and that this will be extended to businesses with up to 1,000 employees in due course. How can that be reconciled with any of these anti-fraud and anti-corruption strategies?
Lord Sharpe of Epsom (Con)
I apologise to the noble Lord; I will have to ask the relevant Minister what he meant by that. I have not read that particular statement, so I cannot help him.
As I was saying, this must be countered. We are seeking strong relationships with our new trading partners to reduce these risks, and our businesses operating abroad know that they must comply with the high standards set in the Bribery Act 2010—a piece of legislation noble Lords have previously found to be a “global gold standard” in their post-legislative scrutiny. We are actively enforcing the Bribery Act. Operational successes in recent foreign bribery cases over 2021 included the Serious Fraud Office’s conviction of Petrofac Ltd—resulting in over £77 million in fines, confiscation orders and costs—and a deferred prosecution agreement with Amec Foster Wheeler Energy Ltd, resulting in £103 million in penalties and costs that also included compensation to Nigeria. On the subject of DPAs—deferred prosecution agreements—and in answer to the noble Lord, Lord Evans, they have raised over £1.6 billion.
I am being told that I am out of time. I apologise to those I have not managed to answer, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Sikka, with his very specific query; I will get back to him on that. I am grateful to all those who have participated in this debate, and I agree: these issues strike at the heart of our democracy, security and economy. As I have made clear, the Government are absolutely determined to root out and tackle corruption however and whenever it appears.
National Heritage Act 1983
(2 years, 1 month ago)
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Lord Vaizey of Didcot
To ask His Majesty’s Government what plans they have to review the National Heritage Act 1983.
Lord Vaizey of Didcot (Con)
My Lords, it is obviously time to get cracking. We have only one hour, but we have a stellar cast of Peers here to debate this important issue, including the first major speech by my noble friend Lord Parkinson since he was so cruelly ejected by this temporary Government.
It is hard to believe that 40 years ago some of our greatest museums were simply adjuncts of government departments—much as I admire government departments. The V&A was actually a section of the Department of Education and Science, as was the Science Museum; the Royal Armouries was part of the Department of the Environment; and Kew Gardens was part of the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food. The Heritage Act 1983 did a great thing and set them free, following the model of many other Acts which had put in place the governance of our national museums, including the famous British Museum Act 1963 and many others before. The Heritage Act meant, effectively, that the micromanagement of museums by government departments was to become a thing of the past, and that our museums would become broadly autonomous, steered in all their complexity by engaged directors and trustees—which reminds me that I have to declare my interests. I am a trustee of Tate, and I was appointed today as chairman of the Parthenon Project, for which I am not paid, which is a campaign to return the Parthenon sculptures to the Parthenon. I am sure that I have lots of other interests that encroach, but those are the two that spring to mind immediately.
This approach of making our museums as autonomous as possible has been an unequivocal success. As people know, UK museums are some of the most popular in the world, with 50 million people visiting DCMS-sponsored museums. The British Museum, Tate Modern, the Natural History Museum and the V&A are in the top 10 most popular art museums in the world. We have the best of both worlds: we do not micromanage our institutions, as do the French, and we do not simply leave them to the whims of wealthy benefactors, as to a certain extent our American cousins do.
With the 40th anniversary of the Act falling next year, there is now a chance to reflect on the remaining restrictions that still bind some of our museums. I am talking in particular about the disposal of objects in a museum’s collection. In the 1980s, it was quite right for the Government to impose these kinds of restrictions, just as they were establishing freedom for national museums. That has been very successful. The collections in our museums, which are for research as well as display, are unrivalled by institutions all over the world.
But in the last few years, the debate has moved on to include a sophisticated and important debate about restitution: how cultural objects were acquired and where they might ultimately reside. It has moved on also because, even going back to a time as recent as the 1980s, the ability to travel around the world to look at objects and the ability to study objects through technology have leapt on exponentially.
We need to debate whether the Act still works for what we need today. In 1983, what was not accounted for or considered were restitution requests and the idea that trustees might want, to put it bluntly, to do the right thing and return artefacts to their place of origin.
Things are beginning to move and the museums that do not have restrictions are able to make these decisions. This week alone, the Smithsonian museum decided to return 29 Benin bronzes, taken from Nigeria during the 1897 British raid on Benin City, to the National Commission for Museums and Monuments in Nigeria. Nigeria has also made a restitution agreement with Germany that included the handover of two Benin bronzes. Oxford and Cambridge Universities have agreed to repatriate more than 200 Benin bronze items, and the University of Aberdeen has already returned two bronzes—the first British university to do so. The Horniman Museum has agreed to return 72 objects. Glasgow City Council has returned Benin bronzes and the Royal Albert Memorial Museum in Exeter has returned some sacred regalia to the Siksika Nation in Alberta. Many museums, if they are not restricted in the way our national museums are, are getting ahead of the game and leaning into this issue.
Let me show you an anomaly that exists today. The V&A has the “Head of Eros”. The British military consul in Anatolia, Charles Wilson, took it from a Roman sarcophagus in 1879 and loaned it to the V&A. It was then gifted to the V&A by his daughter, but Wilson himself had expressed the wish that the head be returned to whoever ended up caring for the sarcophagus. As long ago as 1934, the V&A tried to return it to the Istanbul Archaeological Museum. It has taken almost a century to physically return it, but it was returned in 2021—but of course as a loan rather than a transfer of ownership. And of course, the Parthenon sculptures have been endlessly debated for the last 200 years. I am not going to get into that in my opening remarks.
The stalemate of the Parthenon marbles is nevertheless a useful issue to look at. If your view is simply binary, either you own them and keep them or you do not own them. The debate around returning artefacts is complex, but it is hard to argue that the “retain and explain” policy on contested heritage that the previous Government put in place has been a success. That policy involved writing to museums, galleries and arm’s-length bodies, even those outside the 1983 Act, advising them not to remove contested heritage from their collections. This was effectively a backwards step on the independence and scholarship of directors and trustees.
One question that is frequently asked when one discusses this issue is whether one will go from one extreme to another, from not giving back any object back to giving back everything so that museum shelves and display cases are stripped clear. That will not be the case. The V&A, which holds more than 2.7 million items in its collections, has received a total of nine restitution cases since 1999. The Spoliation Advisory Panel, which returns Nazi-looted art and is a good example of where the Government stepped up to do the right thing, has returned only 22 objects. I think the Spoliation panel and the Reviewing Committee on the Export of Works of Art, where we ourselves say an object is part of our cultural identity and should not leave our shores, are very good models for the Government to follow, should they wish to amend these Acts and put in place a new procedure. One is not—without wishing to contradict myself in my own speech—saying that the trustees would simply have carte blanche to return an object. There would be a reviewing mechanism. It could be an independent body, such as the Reviewing Committee for the Export of Works of Art, which would simply give a view on whether this was a wise disposal.
We know there is much talk about a supposed loophole that has appeared in the Charities Act 2022 to allow museums to make a moral disposal but, even under that, it would require an application to the Attorney-General and the agreement of the Charity Commission. The Horniman Museum’s decision to return the Benin bronzes was still subject, in effect, to approval by the Charity Commission; there will, therefore, always be a backstop to allow a director or a board of trustees to think again about a decision.
In these opening remarks, I simply ask the Minister to consider how times have changed. Our world-class national museums are run by world-class directors and curators. The debate on the provenance of objects and their location has become much more sophisticated, technology has changed and travel has changed. We in this House can have a mature debate about that. The Minister has a perfect opportunity, particularly with the debate about the Charities Act loophole and as we celebrate the fifth anniversary of the Mendoza review into national museums’ policy—which certainly needs to be updated and its implementation reviewed—to take a holistic view of our national museums in the 21st century and to put on the table the opportunity to give our museums and their directors and trustees greater freedom to dispose of or to return objects of questionable provenance to their rightful owners or location.
Lord McNally (LD)
My Lords, on my travels in the Middle East, I once stayed at a very palatial British ambassador’s residence. I said to him, “This really is splendid, when did we acquire this?” He said, “Oh, the local ruler so admired Queen Victoria that he gave it us in perpetuity, in token of his admiration of the Queen”. One has to remember that when we were a great empire, we acquired many gifts in the same way as the mafia captains of Chicago retained tribute. It was to show admiration for the empire.
It seems a little bit absurd—I am glad that in the noble Lord’s introduction he noted that this is not a debate about the Parthenon or the Elgin marbles—that we get it down, as the noble Lord, Lord Parkinson, explained to me, by the restrictions of this Act or that Act, or whether we still have the bill of sale that Lord Elgin allegedly had, when we are talking about an agreement between two empires that no longer exist. This debate must be about how we manage our museums in the 21st century, in recognition of the changes that have taken place in the world—all kinds of things about national pride, the national view of who we are and where we are in the world.
I come to my last point. In my personal view, we would have far more national pride and esteem in witnessing King Charles in Athens returning the Parthenon marbles than if we spent several more years arguing the small print of a deal. Real national pride is doing the right thing. It is typical of the noble Lord, Lord Vaizey, that he should initiate a debate and then have a press release on the BBC announcing yet another medal on his chest, like one of those Soviet generals for a new campaign. The press release makes one very interesting point. In an opinion poll asking whether the marbles should be returned, the overwhelming answer was yes. On the question of why, the answer was because they belong in Athens. You would be surprised how sensible the man on the Clapham omnibus is about this issue, compared with government lawyers.
The problem is that, while a Royal Commission might be a good way of doing this, as Harold Wilson famously said, they take minutes and last for years. A government draft Bill with pre-legislative scrutiny could do some of the same work. But let us not have this debate as part of the culture wars—let us have a real, rational and sensible debate on what we need to keep and protect and what we should return.
Baroness Falkner of Margravine (CB)
I thank the noble Lord, Lord Vaizey, for initiating this debate and I also congratulate him on his chairmanship of the Parthenon Project. That is of course the brainchild of Mr John Lefas, who has donated something like £10 million to it. Apparently, his wealth comes from manufacturing plastics. The noble Lord, Lord Vaizey, says that he is confident that a deal is within reach—that was the report in today’s papers—and that support for “reunification” of the sculptures in Athens from the public, and in particular from Conservative-leaning voters, is clear. Later today, in a BBC interview, the noble Lord also told us that perhaps a deal might have to be a fudge. In a few hours today, we can see how his faith may be regarded. The combination of money from plastics—as if we do not know enough about polluting the climate—the advocacy of a “fudge”, which is terrible for our health, and finally calling in support Conservative-leaning voters might go down rather badly with the rest of the country. Maybe he should start afresh.
Let me consider what happens when the general principle of returning or the restitution of pieces of art is in place. The noble Lord has mentioned the Benin bronzes; they are a good example, because he is quite right that the museum is all over bending over backwards to return them to Nigeria, or what they think is Nigeria. I commend all those who wish to understand those arguments—and those arguments are related to these arguments—to read the Atlantic. David Frum’s article, “Who Benefits When Western Museums Return Looted Art?”, powerfully sets out the pitfalls here.
There are three sets of interests—the Benin Dialogue Group, the Oba of Benin and the Nigerian federal Government—who see themselves as the sole decision-maker in claims of heritage to the Benin kingdom. The Oba of Benin has announced that he is the legitimate owner and custodian, and the Benin Dialogue Group, which has morphed into something called the Legacy Restoration Trust, wishes to establish a museum in the interests of others, but mainly through raising philanthropic donations from millionaires. It would own the objects, were they to go to it.
This comes against the backdrop of previous attempts. In September 2020, Oliver Dowden, the former Culture Secretary, said in a letter to museums and galleries:
“History is ridden with moral complexity.”
This goes to the heart of the fundamental question. Should history be unwound? Can it be unwound? A standard that art should belong to the present-day Government of the place where the art was created centuries ago does not feel right, especially when those taking decisions to deprive their own populations do so in the mistaken belief that returning art somehow atones for the brutalities and injuries of the past. It takes more than the return of a few physical objects to express a genuine sense of regret for, by today’s standards, injustices of the past committed under different norms.
I suggest that we think hard about this but that public opinion should not be the mere determinant. The trustees of museums have an obligation to behave responsibly, and the Act rightly directs them to do so.
Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)
My Lords, it is a pleasure to welcome my noble friend Lord Kamall to his new role. I am in the happy position of being able to say that I know he will both enjoy and excel at it. I congratulate my noble friend Lord Vaizey of Didcot on securing this debate and so successfully trailing it in today’s Times, in the weekend’s Sunday Times, at the Cheltenham Literature Festival, on his Twitter feed, on the BBC and in our Spectator panel at the Conservative Party conference earlier this month—possibly also on his new Times Radio show, but I have not yet had the pleasure of listening to that.
It is a debate well worth having, and an issue I have particularly enjoyed discussing over the last 12 months with the excellent professionals who work in our museums and galleries, including those involved in informing the practical guide on restitution and repatriation published by Arts Council England this summer, the first for 20 years. As I have said in your Lordships’ House before, both the National Heritage Act and I turn 40 next year. It is a good rule of thumb that Acts of Parliament should be reviewed when the Ministers responsible for them are the same age, but I am not convinced, from the discussions I had when I and the Act were both 39, that there is presently a case for change.
Some perspective is needed. There are more than 2,000 museums in England alone, and the Act we are debating today covers just three—albeit they are now groups of museums—not including the British Museum. With a handful of other exceptions, such as through the 1963 Act, all other museums in the country are free to take decisions about their collections within the confines of their own statutes and charity law. I know from my discussions with museums’ directors and trustees how carefully and thoughtfully they approach questions of repatriation and restitution. These questions are a vital part of the unending process of historical inquiry. How did this object come to be here? How have it and the people who made it been treated down the generations? Whose voice is missing from the conversation we are having about it? There are often complicated or uncomfortable truths to confront in all directions through this historical inquiry. Ensuring that people have the opportunity to do that, and to reach their own conclusions, is in many ways more important than where they get to do it.
Just as it is bad history to sweep under the carpet past actions that make us feel uncomfortable, it is bad history to create new myths of wickedness or virtue. We have to seek to understand the past in all its complexity. At their best, our museums help us to do that—but there are constant pressures on them to boil down that complexity and let present morals intrude on the past. But morals, just like politics and fashion, have changed over time and will continue to change in generations to come. That is why I believe there is still a strong case to be made for universal collections that bring together items that give us a range of insights into our shared human experience across the globe and across the generations, and for sheltering them from short-term political pressures.
Our national museums take their responsibilities very seriously, sharing and exchanging not just the items in their collections but perspectives and scholarship on them, supporting the development of museums around the world and using digital technology to share their collections with global audiences. We saw just last week the advantage of having dispersed collections of our shared human heritage: a wildfire on Easter Island caused terrible damage to the Moai sculptures at that UNESCO world heritage site. It is possible that the fire was started deliberately—an unthinkable thing—but, whatever its cause, it is a reminder of the vulnerability of our universal heritage and, to me at least, it is a cause for relief that two are at the British Museum, as are some 20 in other museums around the world.
I have a question in closing. My noble friend Lord Vaizey asked about the Charities Act loophole. Has my noble friend the Minister seen the opinion by the Institute of Art and Law about recent changes to the Charities Act, specifically to Section 106 on ex gratia payments? The institute suggests that this could make it easier for museums, including national ones, to dispose of items in their collections without seeking permission from the Charity Commission. The recent Charities Act was a Law Commission Bill that was not designed to make significant policy changes in contentious areas. It was carefully scrutinised by a special Public Bill Committee chaired by a former Master of the Rolls in your Lordships’ House. Has the Minister seen the opinion and do the Government have a view on it?
Lord Berkeley of Knighton (CB)
My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Parkinson. I think he has aged rather better than the Act.
This is a timely and important debate. This very week, a team from Cambodia is here visiting the British Museum and other collections to try to retrieve and get returned artefacts looted from their country during and after the Vietnam War. These objects—statues and monuments—are works not only of aesthetic value but of a huge spiritual, religious and personal significance that we can only try to imagine. Members of the team include the Cambodian Cultural Minister, the Cambodian ambassador and the distinguished stonemason and restorer Simon Warrack, who has worked on the rose window at Canterbury Cathedral, the Trevi Fountain in Rome and the monument at Angkor Wat. He explained to me that, as Tristram Hunt has pointed out, they can convince museums of the moral imperative for returning items but very often then be stymied by the 1983 Act.
As we have heard, at the heart of these deliberations lie profound philosophical and moral dilemmas. Should time be a consideration in these deliberations? Is there a difference between items taken in living memory from Cambodia or, for example, the Elgin marbles, brought to this country in the early part of the 19th century? I want to diverge a bit here just to colour this aspect of human involvement and influence. The descendants of Admiral Byng, outrageously tried and executed for a decision that was ludicrously described as cowardice, have long campaigned to get him exonerated. I tried to help them and discuss the case with our colleague, the noble Lord, Lord West. He was very sympathetic and declared Byng’s trial and execution a travesty of justice, but felt that the passage of time made it more difficult. This is relevant because, as with the Cambodians, that answer does nothing to help the feelings, the deep hurt, of Byng’s family descendants—and who in this Room would not want to clear the name of their ancestor?
I address this last point to the Minister. I suggest that if the Government believe that the chair and trustees of the V&A, for example, are responsible enough to be appointed, then surely they should be considered responsible enough to make decisions on the return of objects unfettered by the National Heritage Act 1983.
Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Vaizey, for securing this debate, which has predictably been very interesting and enjoyable. In the previous debate, secured by my noble friend Lady Jones of Moulsecoomb, the noble Lord, Lord Evans of Weardale, defined corruption as being about the misuse of entrusted power. Of course, colonial power was not entrusted by those who were colonised to us—the powers—but was imposed on people at the point of a gun, bayonet or a gunboat. This is how we come to have the kind of objects that we are talking about.
It is sometimes a very direct and clear case of theft, even under the laws of the time, but there are much broader issues as well about all the objects from colonial backgrounds in our museums. I am reminded of the fact that the first time I went to the Foreign Office and looked around at the glorious surroundings, I thought “Ah, this is where the wealth of India went”. It was a little simplistic, but you get the idea.
I should make a personal statement here. I come from a white settler background in Australia, and grew up on land that was stolen from the Wallumettagal people. I acknowledge that I benefited from that. Perhaps influenced by that background, unsurprisingly I would go further than the noble Lord, Lord Vaizey: it would be a step forward to empower trustees and directors to make decisions, but here there is a moral responsibility for the British Government to make decisions about these objects, which were often stolen in their name. The noble Lord set out what is happening in Belgium, Germany, France and many other places and in institutions in the UK where we are seeing those returns.
The moral case here is overwhelming. The noble Lord, Lord Parkinson, referred to short-term political pressures, but basic morality is not subject to short-term pressures. If something was stolen, you give it back; that is a universal, long-term value. I make a practical point, too, about the geopolitics of today. If we look at the global view of the Russian invasion of Ukraine, in most of the global north there is a clear understanding that Russia is in the wrong and Ukraine has been attacked. If we look at the global south, particularly among the public in the global south, the view is not nearly so clear. A lot of that comes from a kind of distrust of the global north—countries such as the UK—and the long-term impacts they feel about being victimised for so long.
On that point, I will finish by referring to the point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Falkner of Margravine. She said that history cannot be unwound and that it would take more than returning these objects to undo the damages of the past. I absolutely agree with her on that. Loss and damage in the global climate talks is a related and much larger issue in scale, but this would at least be a start of us doing the right thing. In terms of global politics, making restitution for some of the damage we have done in the past would take us in the right direction.
The Earl of Clancarty (CB)
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Vaizey, for his comprehensive introduction to this debate. I am very much in favour of looking at this legislation, but with certain caveats. I wonder whether a more top-down approach is required, as has been suggested and is happening in other European countries.
It is clear to me that it is absolutely right that certain artefacts should be returned to their country of origin, or at least something close to it, and the Horniman Museum, for one, has made the correct decision with regard to the Benin bronzes in its collection, but it is important that if legislation is to be changed, those changes should be restricted to the question of restitution only. We really have to make that point.
In this respect, I am mindful of the concerns expressed by Robert Hewison in the Apollo piece referred to in the excellent Library note we have on this debate. It would be hugely worrying if legislative changes made deaccessioning in the more general sense easier, for all the many reasons that deaccessioning is such a fraught area. It is so much influenced by personal whim, faddishness, misguided ideas about tidying up a collection and, of course, funding concerns. Restitution is a separate issue, and that needs to be clearly understood. It would thus be helpful if the Minister could outline where we currently stand legislation-wise with regard to these concerns. As has been mentioned, it is about not just the National Heritage Act but the British Museum Act 1963 and the Charities Act 2022 as well. That would be helpful.
When we raise these concerns in the House, we are repeatedly told by the Government that it is up to individual museums to make decisions about their collections even if, as in the cases of the BM and the V&A, their hands are very much tied. We have reached the stage, in the words of Tristram Hunt, of there being a ping-pong between central government and museums that really needs to stop.
This is also a government stance in stark contrast to that of other countries, including Germany and France. President Macron has made it very much a personal mission to return ownership of many African artefacts, notably from the Kingdom of Dahomey to the country of Benin—not the same Benin as of the Benin bronzes, which come from an area in present-day Nigeria. This top-down approach, which in effect is a national policy, allows such restitution to be seen very much as an opportunity for dialogue and co-operation between countries. In this case, French money is being put into the building of a museum, meaning that the work is returned to a safe environment, there is training of curators and much more besides. To be fair, of course we have our own significant museum-run programmes, and I am very grateful to the British Museum for furnishing me with details on those, which include work in Benin City on the site of the royal palace we destroyed in 1897.
None of this of course makes up for the original looting of such objects or indeed the accompanying destruction, sometimes of a whole nation and culture, something which Russia is now attempting in Ukraine. It does, however, acknowledge the reality of a shared history for those artefacts, and that has huge importance in itself. France is proving that an exchange in ownership is no bar to co-operation. I believe that our Government should spell this out as an opportunity for co-operation rather than continuing contestation, which is currently the Government’s default mode in too many areas. I believe that the word “contested” should become an obsolete term. It is certainly clear from the latest YouGov poll on the Parthenon sculptures that public opinion has moved way ahead of the Government on that issue, with 59% in favour of return and only 18% against. The ball is very much in the Government’s court.
Viscount Colville of Culross (CB)
My Lords, I declare an interest as a trustee of the Museum of the Home.
In 2019, Manchester Museum returned 43 sacred and ceremonial objects, including human remains and a ceremonial dress made from emu feathers, to their communities of origin, four aboriginal peoples in Australia. It is the first museum in Europe to have returned sacred remains. This has resulted in a cultural revitalisation between the museum and these indigenous communities of origin. They have a very different view of the significance of these objects. For them, they do not just have physical properties but spiritual ones. This new knowledge has allowed the museum to reinterpret its remaining objects, so that they reflect not just how western curators might see them but also the values given to them by their creators.
The resulting equitable relationship has produced great benefits, not just for British audiences but for indigenous peoples in Australia. The Noongar people of western Australia wanted to replant a forest of indigenous trees, in keeping with their deep spiritual connection with the land, but such was the extent of the deforestation there were no seedlings available in Australia. However, Manchester Museum’s botanical collection had continued to propagate these trees. Their seeds have now been returned to Australia, where they are creating a vital link between the indigenous people and their land. This must be a shining example of how repatriation of objects can be a huge win for all humanity.
Manchester is fortunate. It is a university museum which, as the noble Lord, Lord Vaizey, says, lies outside the purview of the British Museum and National Heritage Acts, which, as other noble Lords have mentioned, tie the hands of national museum trustees and curators when deciding about disposal of objects. What is interesting from the Manchester example is that it has proved wrong the purveyors of the “slippery slope” argument. When the 43 objects were returned in 2019, there was a huge publicity campaign around the move. The museum was unafraid that other communities of origin would be encouraged to initiate mass claims on the thousands of objects of foreign origin in the museum’s collection. The director, Professor Esme Ward, told me she had not had one single claim for the return of objects.
Instead of tying the hands of our national museums behind their backs with these Acts, the Government need to support trustees and allow them to make their own decisions about the acquisition and disposal of objects. I echo the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, when I say that the trustees in most of these institutions are already publicly appointed and even vetted. Surely they should be the arbiters of these policies. The noble Lord, Lord Parkinson, during his much-admired term as Museums Minister was respected for visiting and listening to museum boards and their directors when they were wrestling with difficult decisions in the culture wars. I look forward to his successor, the noble Lord, Lord Kamall, being equally willing to support the sector as it recovers from the closures and lack of audiences of the Covid years and moves into a brave new world.
Any change in the Acts must be with a view to creating a new environment in which great museum objects can be seen as belonging to humanity. We can all learn from combined research and easy exchange of objects. I hope this mood will allow for the suggestions by Jonathan Williams, the deputy director of the BM, who in August said:
“What we are calling for is an active ‘Parthenon partnership’ with our friends and colleagues in Greece. I firmly believe there is space for a really dynamic and positive conversation within which new ways of working together can be found.”
Recent reports say that the British Prime Minister has refused to countenance such an agreement.
The British and Greek Governments both seem to support nationalist arguments that have created stalemate between our countries. I call on them to back off and allow our great institutions to work out for themselves how these extraordinary objects can be shared to the benefit of us all.
The Government keep telling us that they want to create a global Britain. The success of our creative industries has shown that this country is able to hit above its weight in the world. Now we must empower our museums to become Britain’s cultural embassies—centres of soft power for the modern, tolerant, cultured and informed society we want to project to the world.
Lord Bassam of Brighton (Lab)
My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Vaizey, on securing the debate and a dollop of publicity around it as well. It is a rare thing that debates in the Lords generate so much interest, but it is a good thing too. It is very nice to see the noble Lord, Lord Parkinson, here after his excellent stint as our Arts Minister.
I ought to declare an interest or two: I am a trustee of the Royal Pavilion and Museums Trust in Brighton and a trustee of the People’s History Museum in Manchester. My eldest daughter is a curator at the V&A Dundee and has to wrestle fairly continuously with issues such as this in her role there.
I visited the Hamburger Kunsthalle in the summer, and in one of the galleries there is a whole explanation of its policy and approach to restitution. After the Second World War it had in its possession thousands of objects looted by the Nazis, and since then it has spent a lot of time trying to return them to the people they were stolen from. Of course, in many cases those people were deceased because they had been put to death in the Holocaust, but the museum had made a very honest attempt to return them. In part, I see this debate in that context.
I raised this issue last month in the context of the Horniman Museum returning the Benin statues to Nigeria, which was an immensely significant decision. Now the Horniman is working with Nigeria’s National Commission for Museums and Monuments on how together they can secure long-term care for the artefacts and arrange for a formal transfer of ownership, collaborating and working on the possibility of retaining some objects on loan for display, research and education, which I think we would all applaud. But, as has been said, the Horniman trustees were able to take that decision because of their independence and because they are not covered by the 1983 Act.
The noble Lord, Lord Vaizey, makes a very compelling case for a review of the Act. I like his suggestion that there ought to be an independent review body looking at the issue, because that would take some of the heat that has been generated around this topic out of it and perhaps put to bed the whole “woke” arguments, which I think have rather confused the whole discussion and debate unnecessarily. Given that momentum is building for a review of the legislation, I wonder whether the Minister agrees with that point.
Perhaps we could get some discussion going about how that review might take place. I do not particularly favour royal commissions, for the very reason that the noble Lord, Lord McNally, set out. But the reality is that the conversation is being had. Colleagues have given fair voice to that today in their observations on museums across the country and around the world. The question is: do Ministers want to be at the forefront of that discussion or do they simply want to follow it? I think there is a role for them to take a lead, and if we review the 1983 Act, although it covers only three national institutions, it sets a benchmark for the rest of the sector. I think the 40th anniversary is a good point to do that. We can reflect on the emerging new technologies that offer opportunities to the museum world to display and share cultural artefacts in many different ways and across many different locations.
I also ask the Minister to reflect on this point. What more consideration can the DCMS give to the independence of our institutions so that they feel freer to carry out their role as trustees? The sector itself is looking very carefully at these issues—the museums that I am part of certainly are. What conversations are the Minister and his colleagues having, together with the Secretary of State, to engage with leaders of museums and national institutions on this issue? They need to take a leadership role, because we are now in a place where there is an appetite for change.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Kamall) (Con)
My Lords, I begin by thanking the noble Lord, Lord Vaizey, and his ability to generate publicity for this debate. I also pay tribute to my predecessor, the noble Lord, Lord Parkinson. I would not go so far as to say that he is a national treasure but he is treasured by many of us for his knowledge and the way in which he went about his duties.
Before I respond, it might be worth recalling some of the origins of the National Heritage Act 1983. I say this as a new Minister for Heritage; I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Vaizey, would describe me as the temporary Minister for Heritage. Indeed, in some ways all Ministers are temporary—we are the opposite of puppies. People say that puppies are for life, not for Christmas; we are just for Christmas. We recognise our ephemeral nature. In my new role I am the Minister for Heritage, but my honourable friend Stuart Andrew is the Minister responsible for museums. Of course, there is overlap, and we talk all the time about these issues, but I focus on heritage. I have been reminded by my department to stop getting so excited about heritage railways and canals; there is far more to our heritage, as Historic England reminds me.
It is worth remembering that this Act established the Royal Armouries, the Science Museum, the V&A and the Royal Botanic Gardens in Kew, as many noble Lords have mentioned, as non-departmental public bodies. We have to remember that, under the provisions of the Act, the bodies are governed by the trustees, not the UK Government. Many noble Lords may well question that, but it is a principle that we have to be quite clear about. The Act outlines the responsibilities of trustees of these institutions, which includes caring for objects in their collections and exhibiting them to the public, supporting research but also promoting public enjoyment and understanding of the unique and special subjects covered by their collections, as well of course as, rightly, generating much debate. Noble Lords have spoken about some of that debate today.
The Act also sets out the board’s duties about the acquisition and disposal of objects. It provides that the board of trustees may not dispose of an object in its collection unless they are duplicates,
“unsuitable for retention in their collection and can be disposed of without detriment to the interests of students or other members of the public”
or
“useless for the purposes of their collection by reason of damage”.
The Act exists to protect the objects and artworks in our national museums to ensure that they are preserved for public benefit now and in the future. As my noble friend is aware, this is one of several Acts that govern our national museums.
Clearly, the underlying question of where cultural objects belong is an important and, as my noble friend acknowledges, highly complex issue. Complexity should not be used as an excuse for inaction; it just means that we have to unpack some of that complexity and look at some of the issues. As someone who grew up in an immigrant household and is from a non-white and non-European background, it is very easy for me to see the feeling of superiority of white European culture over the rest of the world—you sometimes saw this in the referendum, for example—and to feel baffled by this question, given the rich histories of many other countries. I remember my parents telling me when I was a child, “We’ll go to the British Museum, but remember there’s nothing British in the British Museum.” I acknowledge that when I actually turned up there, that was not true, but many of the collections came from around the world, and many of those items are subject to much debate and ongoing discussions.
In the UK, of course, given that the trustees operate independently, it is up to the museum’s own trustees to respond to restitution claims. Of course, in our national museums there is also legislation, including the Act that we are discussing today, that prevents them from removing items. But there are two exceptions—my noble friend rightly acknowledged the case of art looted by German national socialists in the 1930s and 1940s. Of course, in 2000 we had the Spoliation Advisory Panel to consider the claims for the return of these objects. So far, it has advised on 20 claims, and 13 cultural objects have been returned to families. Therefore it is of course important that there are exceptions and to recognise that such claims are deserving of special consideration.
Of course, there are also legal measures in place to allow human remains under 1,000 years old to be returned to their descendants around the world. Since the introduction of this measure, there have been a number of successful repatriations of human remains from our national museums. As recently as July 2022, the Natural History Museum transferred the custodianship and care of the ancestral remains of 113 Moriori and Maori individuals to their descendants in New Zealand.
Given all this, I now turn to the questions from my noble friend Lord Parkinson and the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty, about the potential implications of the new measures in the Charities Act. I am aware that it has been reported that the two provisions, Sections 15 and 16 of the Act, have the effect of enabling national museums for the first time to restitute items from their collections, based on moral grounds. However, I am also advised that when your Lordships and the House of Commons debated the Charities Bill, no such intent was considered, nor agreed on. Given this, the Government are deferring the commencement of the sections of the Act, which we initially expected to be part of the first tranche of commencements in the autumn, until we fully understand the implications for national museums and other charities. I hope that noble Lords will respect that decision; we really want to understand the implications. Whatever one thinks of the debate, it is important that we understand the legal implications for that.
We also recognise that restitution cases are complex and that every situation is different. Given that, at the moment the Government are not changing their position. However, as noble Lords have rightly acknowledged, we are seeing museums exploring other circumstances in which they may be able to return objects in their care. This is to be encouraged. Noble Lords have already talked about the return of the Benin bronzes to Nigeria by the Horniman museum in August this year. The complexity of deciding what is Benin, who the rightful owners are and where the bronzes should be returned to has also been shared with noble Lords. There are many issues such as these when people call for restitution. Some claim to speak for others; many people have claims on restitution. That does not mean that we should not try, but it exposes the complications and the complexity of the debate.
Let me be quite clear: I understand the powerful argument that often museums are willing to return objects to countries but are prevented from doing so due to existing law. Many people—indeed many noble Lords—feel that there will sometimes be very good reasons why an object should not be returned, such as concerns over preservation, curation, storage or who to return it to. But they also feel that a law preventing items being returned should not be the only justification about returning those items. I understand that debate and these arguments completely.
Lord Kamall (Con)
I see that my noble friend Lord Vaizey is getting very excited for his next podcast.
I understand these arguments. However, the Government’s position remains unchanged. The Government will continue to abide by the long-standing principle and legal position supported by successive UK Governments that claims should be considered on a case-by-case basis. I remind your Lordships once again that we believe that it is the trustees, not the Government, who are responsible for these decisions—not as a way out, but to clearly state that factor as a part of these considerations.
We are committed to supporting museums and trustees in delivering their duties in care of their collections. Noble Lords will be aware that our national development agency for museums and cultural property and Arts Council England, which is sponsored by the DCMS, published the museum guidance, under the title, Restitution and Repatriation: A Practical Guide for Museums in England. I am sure it is a bestseller. This guidance offers museums a technical framework to evaluate claims on a case-by-case basis, and it advises on a spectrum of outcomes, including returning, not returning and making long-term loans and partnerships.
We understand that claims often also lead to opportunities for enhancing understanding for all parties involved in the discussions, including improving knowledge, contributing to research, building mutually beneficial international partnerships and relationships with the originating communities, and opening up a dialogue and discussions about cultural heritage. For example, as my noble friend Lord Vaizey said about the return of the marble head of the Greek god Eros to the Istanbul Archaeological Museum, these two institutions have been co-operating since the 1930s—this is nothing new. However, this agreement is part of an ambitious new cultural partnership between the V&A and the Istanbul Archaeological Museum, and the Government support the V&A with its arrangements of renewable cultural partnerships, which are a pragmatic way of—
Lord Kamall (Con)
My noble friend was a government Minister; he knows that it takes a bit of time to come to the answer.
I know that noble Lords are proud of our world-class national museums and the fact that we have more than 24 million overseas visits to DCMS-supported museums, accounting for 50% of all visits, despite the closure of museums due to national lockdown measures. The global public also benefit from our collections, because let us remember that between 2019 and 2020 the UK national museums lent more than 71,000 objects to more than 2,000 venues around the world. It is not black and white or inaction compared with action. Some of these things are already going on. These are deep, complex conversations, but they also provide opportunities for cultural partnerships. Noble Lords talked about global Britain. What a great example of soft power it is if we can be seen to be co-operating and tackling those sometimes difficult discussions head-on. Surely it is better that we have some of those conversations.
As the noble Lord, Lord Bassam, said, technology plays a vital role. Much of our national collection is available online. We recognise the importance of that, which is why my department supported the Arts and Humanities Research Council’s successful bid for £90 million to advance the use of digital technology. These initiatives demonstrate that our museums are dedicated to making their collections accessible, so that as many people as possible can experience, engage with and even be touched or inspired by them.
These collections are also the focus of scholarship and research. In fact, the national museums are internationally recognised as leaders in their academic fields—but, once again, they partner with universities, museums and other research organisations around the world. They collaborated with more than 1,000 UK and international academic and research institutions between 2019 and 2020.
Much of the research is focused on the provenance of museum collections. It is amazing; it shows just show complex these issues are that we have almost a whole new academic field looking at the provenance of the collections, the issues and whether whoever gave it in the first place—or claimed to give it—had any legitimacy. There are a number of other complex issues, as many people would acknowledge. Today we are also committed to combating the illicit trade in cultural property, so that we do not make the same mistake.
In answer to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, we are aware of the positive discussions between Cambodia and some of the national museums. Once again, we welcome conversations such as these. I pledge to write to noble Lords to answer the questions I was unable to answer due to my verbosity.
Our museums co-operate extensively with partner institutions. They share their knowledge and collections, which has enabled our museums to co-operate internationally, to lead programmes, to collaborate and to consider issues case by case, but also, with our research on provenance, to ask whether we can unpack some of the difficult debates around those issues and to consider future claims. The law exists to protect the objects in our national museums, but we want to share these wonderful objects with the rest of the world, whether in person, digitally or through bilateral conversations.
I am afraid that for these reasons the Government have no current plans to amend this Act. It took me 12 and a half minutes, but we got there. Do not worry; we will have much more time to discuss it on one of my noble friend’s podcasts.
House of Lords
Oaths and Affirmations
Public Spending: Borrowing Increase
(2 years, 1 month ago)
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Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
My Lords, the Government’s growth plan set out the important steps we are taking to drive growth. This will help to improve living standards and fund high-quality public services. Sustainable long-term growth depends on a disciplined approach to public finances that includes focusing our spending on core priorities and working efficiently. The Government will set out more details on their approach to public spending at the medium-term fiscal plan on 31 October.
Lord Hain (Lab)
I thank the noble Lord for that expert reply. Has the Prime Minister any idea what on earth she is doing? The Institute for Fiscal Studies estimates she must slash public spending by some £62 billion, on top of the £180 billion of public spending cuts since 2010, or forego the tax cuts. The NHS is on its knees, social care hangs by a thread, and schools and local government are tottering, while millionaires will be much better off. Then, just yesterday, the Prime Minister claimed, “All is well. There’s no need for cuts”. Is it any surprise that the markets are spooked?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
I do not take the view that the noble Lord has. The Government are focused on increasing economic growth to boost living standards through supply-side reform. This will create new, better-paid jobs, allowing people to keep more of what they earn, and ensure that people from across all spectrums of society, including the most vulnerable, will benefit. On the noble Lord’s question, the detail of the growth plan will be rolled out on 31 October. It is intended that we should show that we are fiscally responsible.
Lord Forsyth of Drumlean (Con)
Does my noble friend think that the noble Lord, Lord Hain, did not notice that this week the Labour Party voted for the reversal of the national insurance increase? He asks what the Government are doing; what they have done is save people from energy costs that would have been £6,500 a year and save businesses from bankruptcy. Is that not the case? That is something which the Labour Party is unable to match, because its guarantee was for only six months while ours is for two years. Most people in the country will cheer that, will they not?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
My noble friend is right. The Government are reducing the tax burden by delivering tax cuts worth around £45 billion by 2026-27. We know that is for both individuals, through the EPG, and businesses, through reversing the increase in corporation tax from 19% to 25%. It is an ambitious first step towards this mission of cutting taxes. However, as I said earlier, this includes looking at the public sector and liberating, in particular, the private sector.
Baroness Kramer (LD)
Yesterday, the Prime Minister was very clear that there would be no cuts in funding for public services. Could the Minister clarify whether she meant no cuts in real or nominal terms? Public services will be very badly hit if this is protection in only nominal terms and they have to absorb all the costs of inflation, well in excess of 10%.
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
I am well aware of what the Prime Minister said yesterday. I reiterate that the 2021 spending review set out the departmental budgets for three years and overall departmental spending is still growing in real terms. It also cited that 5% efficiency savings against day-to-day budgets would be looked at for 2024-25. Having said all that, a reprioritisation, efficiency and productivity review has been announced and will be undertaken.
Lord Sikka (Lab)
My Lords, according to the ONS, since 2010 this Government have borrowed more in real terms than all Labour Administrations combined—and Labour created the National Health Service, the welfare state and many new industries. In contrast, the Government, despite borrowing an extra £1.5 trillion, have created poverty and homelessness and destroyed public figures. Can the Minister publish a paper explaining how this £1.5 trillion has been wasted?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
I have spoken about an efficiency review and a reprioritisation, and that is under way. I say that it is not all as the noble Lord paints; for example, we have got unemployment down to its lowest level for about 40 years, at 3.5%, which is excellent, and there is much more we can do to that extent. The economy is actually in a pretty robust state, despite what the noble Lord might be indicating.
Lord Sherbourne of Didsbury (Con)
My Lords, can my noble friend confirm that the Government will be rigorous in looking for efficiency savings across the board where we can do things more efficiently and save taxpayers’ money?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
That is absolutely right. The message has gone out that all departments need to look at where they can reprioritise and make efficiency savings. That is the case for any new Government coming in, by the way, and that is under way.
Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)
My Lords, as somebody who spent much of their career in the public sector, I know that, at the shop-floor level, “efficiencies” is a euphemism for “cuts”; that is what we are effectively talking about. But let us get down to the nitty-gritty of this debate. Volatility in bond markets continues to feed through to the mortgage market, where the average two-year fixed interest rate has jumped by around half a percentage point in the last week alone. Can the Minister confirm whether the Government have conducted, or at least commissioned, any assessment of how many repossessions we are likely to see in the coming months? If not, will he commit to taking this back to the department?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
On the mortgage market, I am very aware of the pain that many people are suffering at the moment. Interest rates have been going up—this is not just a matter for the UK; it is a global issue, particularly among the developed countries—and interest rates link into mortgage rates. We very much hope that they will come down. This is very much a matter that the Bank of England is taking decisions on, and we are all aware of the announcements that have been made to stabilise the markets.
Baroness Hayman (CB)
May I take the Minister back to his response on the issue of public service expenditure? In response to the noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, he said that he was very well aware of what the Prime Minister said. I think many of us would like to know what the Prime Minister said actually means. Does it take into account the effects of inflation?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
We will obviously have to wait for the fiscal statement that is coming on 31 October. We, and she, expect departments to continuously be identifying opportunities to bring down the cost of delivering public services through better use of technology and by reducing bureaucracy. It is also important to praise the level of service and the hard work that public services and the public sector undertake.
Lord Scriven (LD)
My Lords, what does the Minister have to say to his noble friend Lord Finkelstein, who has just said on the BBC News channel regarding the Prime Minister and these policies: “They can keep pressing on with this policy but the consequences are obvious to see and will be paid for by lots of people, and therefore also electorally by the Conservative Party in the end”?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
I am not going to be drawn into responding to that. What I will say is that we are set on announcing the medium-term fiscal plan—as I have mentioned at least three times—on 31 October, and that of course is linked to the OBR giving its view on the Government’s plans. We are confident that we will be able to roll out in detail our growth plan, what it means and how it will get this country moving.
Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)
My Lords, the pandemic involved a huge increase in public spending and borrowing, which I thought had the general support of all parties. Stopping the bleeding over energy prices was the same, and yet another colossal amount. As everyone knows, combatting climate change is going to require still more. These are huge increases in borrowing and surely now we are having to pay the price. If in America the Fed is putting up its interest rates, we will have to do the same. Can the Minister clarify where the Opposition stand on that, because they sound as if they are going back on this whole sensible analysis?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
I thank my noble friend. I think the Opposition probably do understand that. The Government launched the independent review into the delivery of the net-zero climate commitments with a focus on ensuring that the UK’s fight against climate change remains undiminished. I have shied away from saying it so far because everybody has been saying it but many of the issues that we are having to deal with stem from the tail end—the sting—of the pandemic and from the war in Ukraine. We all know that.
Horn of Africa: Famine
(2 years, 1 month ago)
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The Lord Bishop of St Albans
To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the famine in the Horn of Africa.
The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)
My Lords, the crisis in east Africa continues to worsen. Drought is causing significant levels of food insecurity. Over 51 million people in the region are estimated to be facing severe food insecurity, and of particular concern is the recent data from the Bay region in Somalia projecting that famine is likely to occur this year. The UK is a major humanitarian donor to the east Africa region and UK-funded activities are making a difference and saving lives. In the financial year 2022-23, the UK intends to provide approximately £156 million in humanitarian aid across east Africa. Of this amount, nearly 50% has already been allocated to help those affected by this devastating crisis.
The Lord Bishop of St Albans
My Lords, a combination of conflict, climate change, increasing world food prices and a fifth year of drought means that we have an absolute humanitarian crisis hitting this part of the world. In Somalia alone, the UN is estimating that about half a million children are likely to die shortly. We have slashed our aid budgets to that part of the world. We need emergency funding as well as long-term funding. What can we do in addition to what the Minister has said in working with our international partners to get emergency aid into those areas which are dreadfully affected?
Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)
My Lords, it is absolutely right to say that the UK reduced the proportion of its GNI spending on overseas aid from 0.7% to 0.5%, but we are committed to returning to 0.7%. Like many noble Lords, I hope that happens as soon as possible, but in the meantime it is worth reiterating—to remind the House—that we remain one of the world’s most generous donors, particularly when it comes to humanitarian assistance, and the proportion of our ODA which goes toward the very poorest people in the world is higher than that of any of the other G7 donor countries, I believe. It is an important point that if you tot up all the international aid provided year on year, which comes to around $160 billion a year, that is not a patch on the actual needs, so we will not solve these problems through ODA alone. That is why our emphasis in the UK on facilitating easier trade with poorer countries and bringing investment to them is so important to leverage the support we can give.
Lord Bellingham (Con)
My Lords, further to the excellent question from the right reverend Prelate, does the Minister agree that there are now indications that some of the humanitarian aid is being intercepted and interrupted by that vile terrorist organisation, al-Shabaab? What assessment has he made of this and what measures can be taken to try to stop it?
Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)
My noble friend makes a hugely important point. The challenge of delivering humanitarian assistance to countries where there are so many people in need but where the authorities are not always moving in lockstep with us makes things very much more difficult. In Somalia, it is now estimated that nearly 8 million people—approximately half of the country’s population—currently need humanitarian assistance. We will continue to focus as much of our support as possible in that region and the wider region of the Horn of Africa, while using whatever leverage we have to deliver political stability in Somalia.
Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
My Lords, during the 10 minutes of this Question, 12 people will die of severe hunger and malnutrition in the Horn of Africa. I declare that I was in the wider region over the recess. The scale of the Government’s cuts is adding to the problem. The UK committed £861 million in 2017 to support a less severe famine, and there is now less than a third of that from UK support. Hospitals that serve children in Somalia are closing which the UK was directly funding. At the very least, can the Minister intervene to ensure that hospitals that serve children are not being closed as a result of UK cuts?
Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)
My Lords, the UK-supported humanitarian activities are saving lives and having immeasurable impacts. In the year 2021-22, we provided a total of £230 million in humanitarian assistance to the east Africa region, to which the noble Lord referred. In the current financial year, the UK intends to provide £156 million in addition to that. The impact of our work can be seen and measured but, in the light of the undoubted ODA pressures that we face, we are doing everything we can to prioritise spending where it is most needed, tackling the most acute humanitarian crises.
Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Lab)
My Lords, the Horn of Africa is now entering an unprecedented fifth failed rainy season, which is having devastating consequences for the local population. Can the Minister outline when the Government will reinstate the overseas aid budget to 0.7% of GNI? Will it be this year, next year or in 2024?
Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)
My Lords, I would love to be able to answer that question, but I cannot. The Treasury set a test, with which the House is familiar, and it will be the Treasury that decides when we have met that test. My hope, like that of everyone here, is that we pass that test sooner rather than later and that we resume our 0.7% commitment.
Baroness Sugg (Con)
My Lords, the UK aid budget is under additional pressure after the cut from 0.7%, as the Government may be planning to charge an estimated £3 billion of domestic refugee costs to ODA, which would amount to about 25% of what we would normally spend overseas. I am sure we are all in favour of supporting Ukrainian refugees in this country, but I hope that this will not be done at the expense of children and their families who are in so much need in the Horn of Africa. Can my noble friend confirm the domestic refugee cost for this year and tell me how it will be funded?
Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)
My Lords, my noble friend is right. The Government’s response to the ongoing crisis in Ukraine, the wider ODA pressures, including the ODA-eligible expenditure incurred through the Afghan resettlement programme and the UK support to people fleeing Ukraine, has put unexpected and significant pressure on the ODA budget. The Foreign Office and the Treasury are in discussion as to how much of that funding should be categorised as ODA and how much should not. Of course, the hope has to be that there is as little impact as possible on the broader ODA budget, and that is certainly the Foreign Office’s position.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, the right reverend Prelate referred to the underlying causes. One persistent underlying cause has been conflict. The situation in Tigray is of particular concern, especially as it has involved awful crimes against humanity. What steps is the Minister’s department taking to work with our allies to ensure that we can bring peace to this region, so that all the development support measures can have effect?
Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)
My Lords, the situation in Ethiopia is particularly alarming. Ethiopia was the country that, for many people, opened our eyes to some of the problems of acute famine in the world. It was the beginning of a whole bunch of UN and philanthropic programmes designed to tackle acute famine—both the immediate effects and prevention. Ethiopia is now relapsing to those days. Millions of people in Ethiopia face the real prospect of famine returning. That is exacerbated massively by the conflict to which the noble Lord refers. This is a priority for us. It is an issue raised at every opportunity by the Minister for Africa. I do not want to exaggerate the potential power we have as a country to bring such conflict to an end, but we are using whatever levers we have, and on a routine basis.
Baroness Sheehan (LD)
My Lords, it is clear that climate change is making these events more frequent and more intense, so do the Government support the Climate Vulnerable Forum’s call for COP 27 to commission an IPCC special report specifically focused on loss and damage? If the answer is no, perhaps the Minister can say why such a report would be undesirable.
Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)
My Lords, I have spoken regularly to representatives of the Climate Vulnerable Forum, and they make a very strong argument on loss and damage. They would probably agree that it is because of our presidency of COP 26 that loss and damage now has a chapter within the annual COPs where that can be discussed. It will be for the donor countries at COP 27 to determine how far they want to go, but the UK’s position is that the arguments are very strong, we will maintain our commitment to £11.6 billion for international climate finance, and are doing everything we can to encourage other countries to step up as well.
Viscount Waverley (CB)
Although I agree with the Minister that the bolstering of humanitarian aid is critical and essential, does he accept that the mantra of poverty alleviation should be to achieve more with less? With that innovation, much more can be done to assist peoples around the world. How might that be achieved, and might not the private sector play a critical part in that process?
Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)
The noble Viscount is absolutely right. There is no way these problems can be solved through ODA or other aid alone; it is just not possible. That is why the UK has taken an innovative approach to trade, for example. I believe that 65 poorer countries now enjoy simpler, cleaner trade access to the UK than they had before. In many respects, in many of those countries, that is worth more than they could ever expect to receive in aid. That is just one example of what the UK is trying to do to leverage our position to deliver more than just 0.5% or, I hope soon, 0.7%.
UN Sustainable Development Goals
(2 years, 1 month ago)
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Lord Bruce of Bennachie
To ask His Majesty’s Government what specific steps they propose to take towards meeting the United Nations Sustainable Development Goal of ending absolute poverty in the world by 2030.
Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)
My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and, in so doing, draw attention to my entry in the register of interests.
The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park) (Con)
My Lords, we remain committed to achieving the sustainable development goals by 2030, including the eradication of extreme poverty. For the first time in years the number of people living in extreme poverty is rising. To get the sustainable development goals back on track we need to counter malign activity, deliver lasting growth, alleviate suffering and tackle the causes of the crises. The UK’s strategy for international development outlines how we will focus our development efforts to deliver this ambition.
Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)
I welcome the sentiment behind that Answer. The Minister will recall that David Cameron was chair of the UN commission that established the sustainable development goals. Yet last month the replenishment conference of the Global Fund to fight AIDS, Tuberculosis and Malaria raised $14.25 billion, but the UK, hitherto a major donor, contributed absolutely nothing. Even the Democratic Republic of the Congo contributed $6 million. UK aid has been savagely cut, and now frozen, so development agencies do not even know what their future is, after an unexplained £3 billion overspend. How on earth can the UK maintain that it has a credible commitment to the UN objectives of ending absolute poverty by 2030 and leaving no one behind? Without the restoration of our aid budget, there is no credibility in the Government’s statements.
Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)
I have already made comments about the issue of 0.5% and 0.7%. I will not repeat them, other than to say that, like everyone in this House and the other place, we look forward to being able to return to 0.7% very soon. On the specific point that the noble Lord made about the Global Fund, it is true that we have not yet committed to a number, but that is not the same as saying that we are delivering nothing to the Global Fund. We are committed to the Global Fund. I cannot announce the financial commitment that that represents, but it is not true to say that we are withdrawing our support; far from it: we will be making a substantial commitment in due course.
Lord Trees (CB)
My Lords, disease causes poverty and poverty causes disease in a vicious circle. Does the noble Lord agree that health underpins all development: social, educational and economic? Does he further agree that, within ODA and our ODA commitment, our support for health should be prioritised?
Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)
The noble Lord is obviously right. Health remains one of the top four priorities as set out in the integrated review and the international development strategy, neither of which has changed or been forced to be changed as a consequence of recent activities, not least Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine. Health remains a top priority and will continue to do so.
Baroness Stroud (Con)
My Lords, when the UK Government signed up to the sustainable development goals and the eradication of absolute poverty by 2030 they also made that commitment for the UK itself. Will the Minister outline the strategy for the UK eradicating absolute poverty here? If that strategy does not exist, will the Government bring forward a strategy to do so?
Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)
The noble Baroness makes an important point. I am afraid this is far beyond my brief, given that my focus is on international poverty alleviation, environment and climate change, but I will ensure that her question is noted and that there is a response.
Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)
My Lords, one thing about the SDGs is that they are not about ODA; they are about all countries making a commitment to address these vital goals for the future. One of the goals that will impact on poverty is goal 13 on climate change and the action that we need to take, not only domestically—I am not going to talk outside his brief. What are the Government doing to ensure that climate change and SDG 13 are a major priority for the international community? Will the Minister commit to making steps to ensure that the UN adopts climate as the fourth pillar so that we can actually see the world address this issue to safeguard our future?
Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)
My Lords, it is widely acknowledged that COP 26, of which we were president, was a diplomatic triumph. We did not achieve everything that we wanted to achieve, but by the time we completed the conference—we remain president until we hand over to Egypt—90% of the global economy was signed up to net-zero commitments; it was 30% when we took on that role. As to broadening the agenda at the climate conference beyond merely counting carbon and looking at the impact on the natural world—forests, mangroves and so on—I think it is recognised that COP 26 was the turning point that we needed. We remain president of COP and continue to maintain and nurture the diplomatic capabilities that we built up for COP 26. All our climate environment attachés are still working hard to ensure that, as we hand the baton to Egypt, we hand over something that can be properly built on by the new president. We are also using the same network to advance global ambition in relation to the biodiversity COP, which is happening in Montreal at the end of the year and is no less important than the climate COP.
The Lord Bishop of Coventry
My Lords, the latest Goalkeepers report from the Gates Foundation finds that we need to speed up the pace of our progress by five times if we are to stand any chance of meeting the goals. Mindful of the noble Lord’s earlier answers, does he agree with the report’s emphasis on providing to sub-Saharan Africa and other low-income regions the necessary support and investment in agricultural R&D to provide for innovative inventions such as drought-resistant maize and short-duration rice?
Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)
That is an extremely important point. It is a core part of the work we are doing, particularly in the Horn of Africa, which we discussed in the previous Question. I will not repeat all the numbers because the House will have heard them, but the right reverend Prelate makes an important point. Total annual global aid is around $170 billion, but it is estimated that the funding gap, if we are to achieve the sustainable development goals, is nearer $3.7 trillion. Even if we were all to double our aid commitments globally it would still not touch the sides. The answer therefore has to be to use other tools that Governments have access to. I mentioned trade earlier. The UK, as the fifth- or sixth-biggest economy in the world and a big, attractive market for those poorer countries, is committed to making itself more available and more accessible to those countries in a way that perhaps we should have done in the past.
Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)
My Lords, many of the people facing extreme poverty live in certain countries in Africa and many of those countries are run by corrupt neo-dictatorships, particularly Zimbabwe at the moment. What more can His Majesty’s Government do to expose the corruption in these countries, which is costing the lives of so many ordinary African people?
Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)
The noble Baroness is right. Unfortunately, it is not just a handful of countries; a lot of countries could fit the description that she put forward. From the perspective of our international development assistance, we are very careful not to provide funding directly to Governments because we know that, where we do, a lot of that money ends up fuelling corruption and rarely reaches the projects on the ground. Our job is to try to find examples of projects that we can support outside national Governments where we can attempt to enable those communities where we are investing to prosper in a way that does not foster corruption in those countries.
Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)
My Lords, it is not good enough for the Minister to say that he hopes to return to 0.7%. The Government set fiscal tests that would be determined by the OBR. The OBR said in its spring report that those tests had been met for next year and the Government, in their spending review, had set an unallocated £4 billion a year. It would be unacceptable if, as a result of the mini-Budget, this unallocated fund was now raided. Would the Minister not agree that tax cuts for the richest at home meaning raiding the budget for the poorest abroad is morally unacceptable?
Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)
My Lords, I will not return to 0.7% other than to say that we are very keen to return to it as soon as we are able to.
Baroness Foster of Oxton (Con)
My Lords, I echo the comment made by the noble Baroness opposite. I spent five years on the African, Caribbean and Pacific-EU Joint Parliamentary Assembly when I was an MEP and we regularly visited many countries in Africa. What was so obvious so often was that the aid provided never reached the people it was meant for. Too many Governments renege on their responsibilities and continue to be too reliant on overseas aid. As was said, the corruption was rife. Does my noble friend agree that these Governments need to be brought to account if we are to achieve the improvements needed to improve the lives of the people there?
Lord Goldsmith of Richmond Park (Con)
I agree very strongly, but without exaggerating the ability the UK has to do that. What we can do is be sure that the money we provide from UK taxpayers via our overseas development assistance does not fuel that kind of corruption. It is also worth looking for opportunities in countries where governance is less of a problem to use other mechanisms to deliver development. Gabon, for example, a country I recently visited, is not asking the UK for ODA. It is not asking any country for aid; what it wants is to be able to trade in a more equal and fair manner, and to access our markets in a way that it has not been able to in the past. That would be worth far more, by its calculations—I think it is probably right—than anything we could ever offer through aid.
Skills for Care Report
(2 years, 1 month ago)
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Baroness Pitkeathley
To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they plan to take in response to the report by Skills for Care The state of the adult social care sector and workforce in England 2022, published on 11 October, which shows that there are 165,000 vacancies in the social care workforce and that this workforce has shrunk for the first time in 10 years.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Markham) (Con)
My Lords, we are investing in adult social care. We have made £500 million available to support discharge from hospital into the community and bolster the workforce this winter; that is on top of record funding to support our 10-year plan as set out in the People at the Heart of Care White Paper. We are backing recruitment at home and abroad with a £15 million international recruitment fund and a new domestic campaign, which we will launch shortly.
Baroness Pitkeathley (Lab)
I thank the Minister. I expected him to mention the £500 million workforce fund, of course, but he will know that it has been described as a drop in the ocean and that councils are calling for far more to be pumped into better pay and recruitment in the social care workforce. I do not want to be disrespectful to the new Minister, who I know has a lot on his plate, but I wonder whether he and the Government really understand the scale of the crisis in social care. Some 50,000 people left an already inadequate workforce last year; that is not surprising when they can get better pay and conditions in Tesco, and when one in five care workers is in poverty despite being in full-time work.
The previous Prime Minister told us that he would fix social care. The current Prime Minister has withdrawn the levy that would eventually have provided extra funds, with no indication of how those funds will be replaced. Is the Minister aware that, meanwhile, thousands of older and disabled people, both in their own homes and in care homes, are being neglected and deprived of services in a way that no decent society should tolerate? Will he acknowledge both the depth of the crisis and the fact that we need a step change in the way we value social care and the dedicated people who provide it?
Lord Markham (Con)
First, let me say that we value social care. As the noble Baroness will be aware, the £500 million was in addition to a £5.4 billion increase over three years. Again, that underlines the importance that we see behind adult social care and how it is a crucial part of our whole plan, as outlined in ABCD, not only to give the right conditions and dignity for the elderly people whom the noble Baroness mentions but as a vital way of releasing space in our hospitals—this drives right through the system—to create space both in A&E and through the rest of the care system. It is an area of vital interest and something that I can assure noble Lords has a lot of focus from the department.
Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford (Con)
My Lords, I strongly welcome the Government’s action to put care workers on the shortage occupation list this year, which is important for unlocking immediate supply. However, might I ask the Minister to note two key points from Skills for Care’s report, which are important for further action for sustainable care workers? The first is that, although the retention rate has remained more or less stable since last year, the starter rate has fallen from 37.3% to 30.8%. Can I suggest that the Minister looks at more incentives for starters? The second point is that, on average, employers with favourable work metrics such as high levels of learning and development have better CQC ratings. Given the UQ coming up later, that is another critical area to look at for improvement.
Lord Markham (Con)
My Lords, my noble friend is correct that this is also a labour supply issue. Part of the benefit of living in an economy with full employment is, of course, that there is little unemployment. Part of the downside of that is the competition for jobs. My noble friend rightly points out the need to recruit more in this sector; that is why I am pleased that she mentioned the work we are doing to add this sector to the essential workers list so that we can recruit people from overseas and get essential workers in.
Lord Patel (CB)
My Lords, I welcome the Minister to his post. I look forward to working with him. In that spirit, I ask him this: where might I find the data relating to the long-term planning for the NHS and social care workforce? If such data does not exist, will he agree that such planning data should be made available as a matter of urgency?
Lord Markham (Con)
My Lords, my understanding is that there is a 10-year plan as part of a workforce plan, which rightly looks at the issues raised by the noble Lord. As I mentioned in my answer to the previous question, the workforce is key to this sector. We employ 1.5 million people; I think that they account for about 5% of our whole workforce. So making sure that this is an area that people want to come and work in, that people enjoy and that people see as a vocation is vital and will be part of the plan. I will look up the data requested and reply in writing.
Baroness Chakrabarti (Lab)
My Lords, I, too, welcome the Minister to his place. I congratulate him on the tone of his responses so far. I agree with him that the workforce is key. Another feature of the report is that a quarter of the adult social care workforce are on zero-hours contracts and get paid £1 an hour less than healthcare assistants on average. Given the projection in the report that, if we are to keep up with our ageing population, we will need the best part of 500,000 more of these workers by 2035, we must address their low pay, must we not?
Lord Markham (Con)
The noble Baroness is correct that a number of people are on zero-hours contracts. As I am sure she is aware, their employment is through a number of agencies and local authorities, but it is an issue in a number of places and goes to the wider conversation about how we make this sector an attractive place to work. Earlier, my colleague mentioned the Skills for Care working group, which found that a significant proportion of all employers—around 20%—have a turnover rate of only around 10% versus the 29% average. So, clearly there are areas where certain employers do a fantastic job of not only recruiting but retaining, and making the sector an attractive place to work. I believe that the whole emphasis of the conversation we are having now is exactly about how to make this sector an attractive place to work because, as we all know, it is a vital part of our care and health system.
Baroness Brinton (LD)
My Lords, the Minister referred to the £500 million investment in social care but this is only his fourth day in the job. Many people in your Lordships’ House know that that money is for winter pressures and was omitted from the budget for the NHS and social care at the beginning of the year. Without it, social care would be in even deeper trouble than it is now. The noble Baroness, Lady Chakrabarti, made an extremely important point about zero-hours contracts. The problem of staff working in domiciliary care is that there is not enough money even to allow them to be paid for travelling between clients. There is a real shortage of money. This is a group of dedicated workers who are being treated very badly. Will the Minister undertake to look at this particular problem?
Lord Markham (Con)
Any industry with the sort of turnover rate that was mentioned earlier demonstrates that there is a need to look further into it, so I absolutely accept the premise of the question and, as I mentioned before, the importance of this area. As I have said before, this is also about looking at areas of best practice because we can always look to spend more money but we know that there are limitations on the public purse. I would not be doing my job if I did not try to see where we can learn from good employers, employ those practices and see whether we can spread them wider so that everyone has the same level.
The other point that I made previously was about opening this up. We know that our healthcare system is founded on good workers from all around the world. They can be a bedrock. I am delighted that we are looking into that area now. We are starting to see good numbers of people coming in from abroad. It is an excellent level of entry into our country. There are a number of things we can do to improve the situation but I completely agree with the noble Baroness on the importance of tackling it.
Baroness Wheeler (Lab)
My Lords, the Health Foundation has described the Skills for Care report as yet another signal of a social care system on its knees, with care providers struggling to compete with other employers and, in many cases, unable even to pay the national minimum wage to essential care staff. As we have heard, the figures are that one in five residential care workers in the UK was living in poverty, and that was before the cost of living crisis, compared with one in eight of all workers, which is a shocking figure in itself. When will the Government commit specifically to addressing the appalling low pay and poor working conditions throughout the social care sector?
Lord Markham (Con)
My understanding is that the pay of carers is always at least the national living wage. I will look into that, but that is my understanding. That is not to say that where they deserve, and should be paid, more that this should not be the case, but the national living wage is set, as the noble Baroness will be aware, exactly as it says: a national living wage. In terms of the cost of living pressures, the energy price cap is of course about focusing on those people who need it most, so there are a number of measures that we are putting in place to ensure that this happens. Most of all, it is about ensuring that this is a good, safe and enjoyable vocation for people.
Economic Situation
Lord Tunnicliffe (Lab)
My Lords, it is hard to believe that so much damage has been caused in just 20 days. Rachel Reeves was right to refer to the mini-Budget, with its unfunded tax cuts, excessive borrowing and undermining of financial institutions as a bonfire. The Conservative Party have set it and our economy ablaze, with ordinary working people paying the price. Ultimately, this can be resolved only if the Government accept their role in creating this crisis, put the national interest before their pride and reverse the mini-Budget.
Overnight media reports suggest that the Prime Minister’s most senior advisers now agree with that assessment. When can we expect the Chancellor to complete the U-turn?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
The noble Lord will not expect me to agree with much, or any, of what he says, because it was right that the Government took a very rapid step to support those in the lowest socioeconomic groups, particularly on the energy costs. In terms of the tax reductions, this is part of the plan, in line with the growth plan that will be announced on 31 October, which will kickstart the economy. It is absolutely right that this happens, given that growth has been lagging, having been on average about 2.5% between 1949 and 2007, just before the financial crash. Therefore, it is right that we should look to make some changes. We believe that these are the right changes and that they will benefit all in the long run.
Baroness Kramer (LD)
My Lords, I have a very specific question. Given the turbulence in the financial markets, can the Minister, on the record, give an assurance to pensioners and future pensioners in defined benefit pension schemes that their pensions are safe, and that the Government will act if necessary to keep them safe?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
There are two points to raise on this front. The pensions are confirmed. The decisions being taken by the Bank of England are enough to respond to the market turbulence by undertaking certain measures to restore ordinary market conditions. This will feed through to the pension funds, which are already adjusting their portfolios to balance between collateral-linked funds and cash-readiness.
Baroness Altmann (Con)
My Lords, can my noble friend confirm that the Bank of England itself has played a role in what has been happening in the markets? Are there discussions between the Treasury and the independent Bank of England to urge it to extend, if necessary, the emergency measures that it has brought in, which are meant to expire tomorrow, to give the Chancellor an opportunity to restore confidence in the fiscal policy by 31 October with his Financial Statement and Budget Report? If this does not happen, the lack of action by the Bank of England that led to the currency turmoil the day before the mini-Budget, coupled with the loss of confidence in the Bank of England’s policy because it was about to unload £80 billion-worth of gilts in the market, will continue to unsettle the markets. The Bank of England needs to take some responsibility here.
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
The Treasury is working with the Bank of England to monitor the implementation of the operations that the Bank has decided to undertake and the potential risks that it may pose, as well as continuing to monitor wider market conditions. It is thought that the announcements on Wednesday 28 September and the very recent ones on Monday 10 October and Tuesday 11 October will allow enough to be done. As I say, this is to settle the markets and to ensure that there is an orderly exit, as planned, from this Friday.
Lord Davies of Brixton (Lab)
My Lords, I make no apology for continuing the points raised by the noble Baronesses from different sides of the House. Yesterday, there was a headline in the Times, “Threat to pension funds”. Today, a headline in the Daily Express is “Doom loop Friday—will BoE governor Andrew Bailey let financial system collapse tomorrow?”. So far this has been a crisis of liquidity. However, earlier in the week, the Bank of England told us that
“self-reinforcing ‘firesale’ dynamics pose a material risk to UK financial stability.”
This is what the Daily Express refers to as the “doom loop”, and the point about it is that you do not know how deep it will go. Therefore, it raises the issue of a threat to solvency and hence to members’ benefits. The problem is that I doubt the ability of the Bank of England, with its mixed messaging, the Pensions Regulator and the PPF, to sort this out. Is it not the Government’s responsibility and a reversal of their mini-Budget the only way to solve it?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
I probably answered the noble Lord’s question earlier by stating, as an observation, what the Bank has done. I mentioned the announcements made on those three dates. The Bank has also announced that it will stand ready to increase the size of its daily auctions to ensure that there is sufficient capacity for gilt purchases ahead of this Friday. It continues to work with the liability-driven investment funds and pension funds as they continue to build their financial resilience ahead of the end of the Bank’s intervention. This is very much as an observation about behavioural change and there are signs that this is working.
Lord Fox (LD)
My Lords, the Minister has many times referred to growth. I am sure that the Government recognise that for that growth to come, private sector companies must have the confidence to invest in their businesses and deliver that growth. For that investment to come, it requires a stable economic situation. Would the Minister describe the current economy and economic situation as stable?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
The detailed plans will be announced on 31 October so, picking up on what the noble Lord has said, there are five key areas where the detail is needed on what we are planning to do on growth. Obviously, just to pick up from the noble Lord’s experience, increasing private sector investment is critical, as are getting more people into work with the right skills, getting the housing market moving, improving infrastructure and accelerating delivery of major priority infrastructure projects. I could go on. This is what we are about. It is all to do with getting growth going and, as the Prime Minister has said, expanding the pie.
Lord Cormack (Con)
My Lords, I congratulate my noble friend on twice playing a very straight bat on a very sticky wicket this morning. Will he convey to the Chancellor that it is really important that, on 31 October, we have announcements that stabilise things and give people proper encouragement and confidence? The present chaos cannot be allowed to continue.
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
I agree with my noble friend. We have already said that the announcement of the medium-term fiscal plan on 31 October will be accompanied by the independent OBR assessment of the economic and fiscal outlook. Much work is going on. My noble friend need not be reminded that this was originally going to be on 23 November; it has been deliberately brought forward to 31 October to provide further stability about what we are looking to do.
The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)
My Lords, we have a remote contribution from the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours.
Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab) [V]
My Lords, the Government assured us that co-ordinated international action would undermine Russia’s economy and protect ours. Why then is today’s rouble stronger than in any almost any recent period? On 15 April, at the beginning of the immediate crisis, there were 105 roubles to the pound; today there are 70 to the pound. Currencies do not normally strengthen when economies are under pressure or under attack. What is the explanation?
Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
I wish I could give the noble Lord a full explanation for that. I have no information on the Russian rouble in my file. I just take this opportunity to say, as I think I said earlier, that there is strong resilience in the UK economy. The fundamentals of the economy remain sound in this country. I mentioned that unemployment is close to its lowest level for 50 years. I just finish by saying that the latest forecast for UK growth, over 2021, 2022 and 2023, is 11.7%.
Edenfield Centre: Treatment of Patients
(2 years, 1 month ago)
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The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department of Health and Social Care (Lord Markham) (Con)
My Lords, I shall now repeat in the form of a Statement the Answer given by my honourable friend in the other place.
“I am grateful to my honourable friend for this important question. Like him, I have been horrified by the treatment of vulnerable people at the Edenfield Centre, which has been brought to light by undercover reporting from the BBC. There is no doubt that these incidents are completely unacceptable. My ministerial colleague, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Health, has met with the Greater Manchester Mental Health NHS Foundation Trust, and a number of steps are being taken.
As a matter of first priority, my department is working with the trust to make sure all the affected patients are safe, and a multidisciplinary team has completed clinical reviews of all patients. Secondly, a significant number of staff have been suspended pending further investigation. Thirdly, the trust has agreed there will be an independent investigation into the services provided at the Edenfield Centre. Fourthly, Greater Manchester Police is investigating the material presented by BBC ‘Panorama’. For this reason, I will not be commenting on the specifics of the case. The trust will continue to work closely and collaborate with local and national partners including NHS England, the Care Quality Commission, the police and, of course, my department.
These are important first steps, but they are by no means the last. There are serious questions to be answered, especially in light of other recent scandals. I want to put on the record my thanks to the whistleblowers, the BBC and, above all, those patients and families who have been so grievously affected. Anyone receiving mental health treatment is entitled to dignity and respect. On that principle, there can be no compromise, and this Government will work with whoever it takes to do right by those affected.”
Baroness Merron (Lab)
My Lords, patients and their families rightly expect in-patient settings to be safe places. The bullying, abuse and clinical errors at the Edenfield Centre are deeply disturbing. It should not have taken an undercover investigation to expose this cruelty. Can the Minister tell your Lordships’ House what actions have been and will be taken to ensure that this abuse and these shortcomings are not happening in other settings? What are the Government doing to tackle the chronic staff shortages that exacerbate these situations and to recruit more staff across mental health services, including those focused on prevention?
Lord Markham (Con)
My Lords, I completely agree with the question in making sure that this does not happen or is not happening elsewhere. We have been in touch with the CQC, as one would expect, which has made significant changes to protect people in specialist services, people with learning difficulties and autistic people in mental health patient settings. These include making it mandatory for all staff to undertake specialist training before inspecting these settings and introducing a new single assessment framework, which would allow more frequent inspections of the worst-performing providers. The CQC is doing a number of things around that framework, including six key evidence categories, which set out the type of evidence that will be collected. These categories are: people’s experiences; feedback from staff and leaders; observation of care; feedback from partners; processes; and outcome of care. The new assessment means that more targeted time can be spent on site, taking longer to talk to people using services and making every minute count.
Those are some of the standing replies. On a personal level, there clearly need to be questions about how the CQC can go in on an ad hoc basis because, when an investigation or inspection has been announced, a place has an opportunity to put things right. One area of my interest—and I do not claim to be an expert on this—is how we can pick up those ad hoc cases quickly. Clearly, we should not be expecting people such as “Panorama” to be doing that; we want to pick those up ourselves.
Baroness Brinton (LD)
My Lords, despite the Minister just commenting on the way it is possible for some organisations to game-play inspections, it is noticeable that the CQC inspection of 2019, published in 2020, was “Good”, despite the finding that,
“In acute wards … records did not show that supervision of staff in the service was effective”,
which was a “breach of regulation”. This is really concerning.
Reform of the Mental Health Act is long overdue. It was created over 40 years ago, and many noble Lords have been fighting for that to happen. It was good to hear in the Queen’s Speech that there will be a draft mental health Bill, but there are real concerns that it is about to be shelved. My honourable friend Munira Wilson MP asked the Minister responding to this Urgent Question whether it was going to come forward. She did not get a straight answer. I ask the Minister whether Parliament, and this House in particular, will see the mental health Bill this Session.
Lord Markham (Con)
My Lords, like the noble Baroness, I am aware that the White Paper is in draft, but I have not seen its latest status. I know it will address some of the issues that we all agree are not to our satisfaction. At the moment, I can undertake only to understand the position of the White Paper and come back to her, if I may.
Baroness Chisholm of Owlpen (Con)
My Lords, first, I congratulate the Minister on his position. It is a baptism of fire, but I know he is up to the role. Would it be better if we engaged with the CQC better, so that these issues did not arise, rather than leaving it to undercover reporters? Thinking outside the box a little, what about body cameras? The police have them, after all, and they can protect not only workers but those the carers are looking after.
Lord Markham (Con)
My noble friend is correct that these are the sorts of things that we need to think about in this situation. It is a complex situation because, of course, as well as the advantages of body cameras being able to pick up things like this, these are first and foremost patients in need of care and there are all sorts of privacy issues to take into account in such a situation. I think that what this shows is that more intensive dialogue and thought on this whole area is required. I do not believe that there is an easy solution such as body cameras; that might be one approach, but first and foremost I want to feel that these are places where patients feel that their privacy is respected.
What I would violently agree on is the need for further conversations with the CQC, so that it is aware of the need to do a review on this. We need to be looking at exactly these types of things to see if a more intrusive type of system is what is required to stop these sorts of things happening again.
Baroness Browning (Con)
My Lords, I declare my interest, which is in the register, as a vice-president of the National Autistic Society. I welcome my noble friend, and I hope that he and I will have an opportunity in the very near future to discuss autism and learning disability. He mentioned more recent cases. I quite take his point, but these are not just recent cases. These have gone back over decades. I have listened, in both Houses, to Minister after Minister say that there is going to be change, and it does not come. In the vast majority of cases, it is totally inappropriate—in fact, I think it is criminal—for people with autistic spectrum disorders and learning disabilities to be placed in mental health institutions. It is not the place for them. There are proven records, over and over again, that it is not the right course of treatment, any more than you would think of putting someone with a coronary heart condition into such a place. So I say to my noble friend that this needs urgent attention from the Government.
Lord Markham (Con)
I agree with the points that my noble friend makes. I have some personal experience of people with learning difficulties, and I completely agree that the right setting for them should actually be in the community. I know that is the direction of travel of this Government, and I know that there is an objective to make sure that that is the major place where they are cared for. I have some further details on that, which I would be happy to share, and to meet with my noble friend.
Baroness Blackwood of North Oxford (Con)
My Lords, I have been in the Minister’s place, answering on similar scandals, and I think that the whole House shares the dismay of my noble friend that we are in this place once again. I hope that the Minister will take back the condemnation of this House that such a thing should happen in this country. We want to say that it will never happen again, but I think that we feel as though we will be back here once more.
If I could raise one single point, it is that the CQC, the police, the Government and all those involved in the investigations that go forward should take particular care with the patients and families as they go forward, to have the utmost respect and transparency in the way in which they communicate. Too often in these cases, information is leaked to the media or there are failures in communication, which leads to even more distress over and above what has already happened. Please can that not happen in this case, and can those who have already been so grievously affected be protected going forward?
Lord Markham (Con)
I am grateful for my noble friend’s comments. She is absolutely correct that, although we are grateful to the likes of the BBC for highlighting these issues—and I speak here as a former director of ITV—and for the undercover work they do, I believe that there is a responsibility there as well, when they have found these sorts of cases, to allow the patients and the people affected some sort of early indication, because the impact on them is central to all of this. I do not know what the BBC did in terms of an early warning on this, to make sure that there were no surprises. I think it is a very good point. We need to make sure that, although independent journalists are correctly doing their job and highlighting important issues, for which we are grateful, we first and foremost need to make sure that when this happens, patients and their family are made aware first and that their concerns are foremost in any action that is taken.
Loot Boxes
(2 years, 1 month ago)
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Lord Foster of Bath
That this House takes note of the response by His Majesty’s Government to the consultation on loot boxes.
Lord Foster of Bath (LD)
My Lords, I begin by welcoming the Minister to his new post. I know from experience that DCMS is an exciting department in which to be involved, although one that is sadly undervalued by Governments of all persuasions. I refer to my interest as the chairman of Peers for Gambling Reform, an organisation whose 150 members—Peers from all sides of this House—have been pressing for the implementation of the recommendations from your Lordships’ Select Committee on gambling, on which I had the opportunity to serve. Sadly, much time has passed since the publication of its report and since the Government’s own consultation on gambling legislation was concluded. A much-anticipated White Paper was approved twice by the previous Cabinet, yet has still not seen the light of day. With at least one gambling-related suicide every single day, we simply cannot wait any longer. Could the Minister tell us when the White Paper will be published, and will he agree to meet with members of PGR as soon as possible?
Noble Lords may wonder why I have begun with reference to gambling reform when this debate is actually about loot boxes. I believe there is a very clear link and, as I will argue, that loot boxes should be treated as gambling and regulated accordingly, with a change to the current legal definition of gambling. Your Lordships’ committee recommended this, as did the House of Commons DCMS Committee. The Conservative manifesto for the 2019 election also made a link between gambling and loot boxes. It made a commitment to undertake a review of the Gambling Act 2005,
“with a particular focus on tackling issues around loot boxes”.
While we await the gambling White Paper, we at least now have the response to the separate consultation on loot boxes. I was, frankly, shocked by its contents. It said that the evidence submitted to the consultation showed a link between loot boxes and gambling harms and to wider mental health and financial harms. But it went on to say that the Government do not intend to amend gambling regulation or to introduce any other statutory consumer protections to cover loot boxes. Frankly, that makes no sense. How can a Government that have stressed that they would take an evidence-based approach accept there is a link between loot boxes and harm and yet not legislate to protect people from this harm?
A report commissioned last year by GambleAware stated that links between loot box purchasing and problem gambling
“have been robustly verified in around a dozen studies”,
and argued that loot boxes were “psychologically akin to gambling”. The Select Committee heard similarly overwhelming evidence. Dr David Zendle, of the University of York, for example, has done extensive research in this field. His findings, presented to the committee, found that in every one of his studies spending money on loot boxes is linked to problem gambling, and that the more money individuals spend on loot boxes, the more severe their problem gambling. He told the committee that the link between problem gambling and loot boxes is extraordinarily robust. We also heard that research around the world, from Canada to Finland, has replicated those findings.
Perhaps the most worrying findings were in relation to young people. In the UK, we currently have around 60,000 young people aged 11 to 16 who are deemed to be gambling addicts, with a further 85,000 deemed to be at risk of becoming so. Rates of harmful gambling among 17 to 20 year-olds are increasing threefold. We should be particularly concerned that the research by Dr Zendle and others shows that the observed links between loot box spending and problem gambling were much stronger in adolescents than in adults. According to some research, young people who spend money on loot boxes are more than 10 times as likely to be problem gamblers than those who do not.
Three years ago, the Children’s Commissioner’s report, Gaming the System, also expressed concern about the impact of loot boxes on young people and, like the Select Committees in both Houses, recommended the regulation of loot boxes as gambling. More recently, GambleAware pointed out that, without action, loot boxes—used by 40% of children who play video games—will continue to normalise gambling-like activities with all the well-established consequences.
I have been careful to refer to a link between loot boxes and problem gambling rather than a causal relationship between them. The more money an individual spends on loot boxes, the more likely they are to suffer gambling harm, but I acknowledge that establishing a causative relationship is much harder. However, this effect shows very clearly that one of two things is happening: in one situation, loot boxes are causing gambling problems; in the other, the companies that sell loot boxes are profiting inordinately from children and vulnerable individuals who suffer gambling harms. Such individuals commonly spend thousands of pounds on loot boxes. Either outcome is a cause for concern. So I do not believe that the absence of definitive proof of a causative link justifies the Government’s response, which is, in essence, to do nothing except encourage further research and hope that the industry will do something.
Of course I welcome further research, so can the Minister provide an update on the video games research framework? I am a fan of the UK’s games industry. It contributes significantly to the success of our creative industries, and with developments in virtual and augmented reality will be even more important. It is a responsible industry but, with significant earnings to be made from loot boxes, asking it to take significant steps to reduce their well-documented harms is asking too much of it.
Waiting for enhanced industry-led protections was exactly the same argument that allowed the worst practices of the gambling industry to go unchecked for many years. We were told that the Government did not need to regulate fixed-odds betting terminals because the industry would self-regulate. It did not. We were told that there was no need to bring in a statutory levy to fund research, education and treatment because the industry would provide sufficient through the voluntary levy. It has not. We were told that the industry would cut down on the advertising that is constantly marketed to young people and recovering gamblers. Instead it introduced, for football, a measly whistle-to-whistle ban that does not even begin to deal with advertising hoardings, front-of-shirt sponsorship or programme ads. There has been no let-up in non-football-linked TV ads, nor the constant bombardment of online marketing.
To be told once again that we can once trust the industry to self-regulate a product that directly funds those companies is surely not the right approach to take. A business model that relies on the fiscal success of harmful products must be regulated by the Government, not by the companies themselves. If the Government will not change, can the Minister at least provide details on progress made by the technical working group set up to develop those industry-led solutions?
Even the type of industry measures that the Government are suggesting seem likely to have little effect—for example, enhanced parental controls. As one commentator pointed out, that is like allowing children to gamble in a betting shop as long as a parent is present. More worryingly, as GambleAware-commissioned research points out, advocating enhanced parental controls as a key part of the solution shows how little the Government appreciate how difficult it now is for parents to understand and adequately protect their children from gambling harms, and, given the rapid changes to online activities, how lacking in confidence parents are even about talking to their children about these issues. Surely, given all the evidence, we should expect the Government to adopt a public health approach based on prevention.
In his previous role as Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State in the Department for Health and Social Care, where I believe he did an excellent job, the Minister was a powerful advocate of such a public health approach. I am grateful to the Library for providing numerous quotes from him showing how on several occasions he praised
“public health interventions and a strong regulatory framework”—[Official Report, 3/12/21; col. 1610.]
in relation to other harms such as smoking, obesity and mental health conditions. I remind him that when in March this year, during an Oral Question, I asked him about adopting a public health approach towards gambling he said:
“I know we take very seriously that this is a public health issue that we must tackle in a holistic way. We are looking at how we can allocate funding in the NHS long-term plan to tackle gambling addiction and to ensure that we focus more on prevention rather than simply dealing with people once they have a problem.”—[Official Report, 28/3/2022; col. 1262.)
Does the Minister really believe that the Government’s response to their own inquiry into loot boxes is evidence of the adoption of a public health approach? I certainly do not.
I remind him that as part of the review his own department commissioned Loot Boxes and Digital Gaming: A Rapid Evidence Assessment, a report whose results it sat on for ages. I suspect that was because it showed a
“stable and consistent association between loot box use and problem gambling”.
Despite that, there has been no action by the Government. Leave it to the industry and to parents, and encourage more research, but do not expect the Government to act.
In moving that the House takes note of the response by His Majesty’s Government to the consultation on loot boxes, I simply say that I was dismayed by it. I hope the Government will think again and instead take note of the recommendations of the Select Committees in both Houses, the Children’s Commissioner, GambleAware, numerous academics and many others who believe that loot boxes should be regulated as gambling. I beg to move.
Lord Butler of Brockwell (CB)
My Lords, I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Foster, on obtaining this debate and on the doughty work that he does as the chair of Peers for Gambling Reform. I also welcome the Minister to his new brief.
As the noble Lord, Lord Foster, said, we had expected and hoped that the Government’s White Paper on the results of their wider review of gambling legislation would be published before the Summer Recess, but it was delayed by what the Government would no doubt describe as circumstances outside their control. There are a lot of circumstances outside the Government’s control at present; in fact, it is difficult to think of many that are within it. That is all the more reason to get ahead with discussing what we actually have: namely, the Government’s response on loot boxes.
As we know, the definition of loot boxes is
“features in video games which may be accessed through gameplay … virtual currencies, or directly with real-world money.”
As the noble Lord said, the Conservative manifesto for the 2019 general election committed to undertaking a review of the Gambling Act 2005,
“with a particular focus on tackling issues around loot boxes”.
It is worth noting those words because they imply that, at that time, the Government regarded loot boxes as falling within the definition of “gambling” for the purposes of the Gambling Act. However, the view has subsequently been taken, including by the Gambling Commission, that loot boxes do not fall within that definition because they do not give monetary prizes.
The Government have now said in their response to the consultation that they do not propose to amend the Gambling Act, despite the recommendation of the Select Committee, to bring loot boxes within its purview. I do not propose to waste time arguing today whether loot boxes are or are not a form of gambling, but I would say that most people would take the view in ordinary parlance that when someone pays for access to a loot box giving the chance of a greater or lesser prize, they are taking a gamble. If it looks, walks and quacks like a duck, it probably is a duck. The Belgian gaming commission has concluded that loot boxes are a form of gambling. As I say, I see no point in pursuing that issue today. Its significance for practical purposes is that if loot boxes were defined as gambling, they would come under the regulation of the Gambling Commission.
What matters is whether the harm which access to loot boxes can do might be prevented in other ways, particularly in its effect on children. This is a serious issue and, if we are to believe the Government’s words, they take it seriously. I have referred, as did the noble Lord, Lord Foster, to what the Conservatives’ 2019 manifesto said about this. In her foreword to the Government’s response to the call for evidence, the former Secretary of State said:
“We want all players, especially children and vulnerable people, to have the tools and information they need to enjoy games safely”.
Video games are particularly attractive to children. It follows that particular care needs to be taken to protect children. The majority of Google games and iPhone games contain loot boxes; the vast majority of them are also available to children aged 12 and over. The issue is whether existing safeguards are sufficient to protect children, and the evidence is that they are not. A 2021 report commissioned by GambleAware found that the links between loot-box purchasing and problem gambling have been robustly identified in about a dozen studies—the noble Lord, Lord Foster, cited that. It is certainly the case that only a small minority of loot-box purchasers are problem gamblers, but those who are have a serious problem. As with gambling generally, some 5% of loot-box purchasers generate half of loot-box revenue, and a third of that 5% are problem gamblers.
The Government’s objectives deriving from the call for evidence, as in their response to the consultation, go in the right direction but many of us think—as the noble Lord, Lord Foster, said—that they do not go nearly far enough. The Government’s view is that
“purchases of loot boxes should be unavailable to all children and young people unless and until they are enabled by a parent or guardian”.
Good, but note that there is no definition of “children and young people”, so 12 year-olds will still be able to spend money on loot boxes. The Government welcome the fact
“that some platforms already require parental authorisation for spending by under-18s within games.”
Good, but what about those that do not?
The Government’s solution is to
“convene a technical working group to pursue enhanced industry-led measures to mitigate the risk of harms for children, young people and adults from loot boxes in video games”.
They continue:
“We expect the development of industry-led design norms and best practice guidance with regards to loot boxes to be an output of this work”.
As the noble Lord, Lord Foster, has said, the Government appear to have more confidence in the likelihood that the industry will introduce effective safeguards than many of us do. The fact, which cannot be escaped, is that the industry has a conflict of interest. As I have said, the bulk of its revenue comes from a very small number of loot-box purchasers, of whom many will be problem gamblers. We have to face the fact that the industry has a strong financial interest in fostering addiction—but we shall see.
I see one positive aspect of the Government’s response to which the noble Lord, Lord Foster, did not refer. The Government say that if the games companies and platforms do not improve protection for children, young people and adults, the Government will not hesitate to consider legislative options. Those are not very strong words, but the best thing about the Government’s response is that they will
“provide an update on the output of the technical working group and progress made to strengthen industry-led measures, by the first quarter of 2023”.
That is only six months away and it indicates some sense of urgency. We must hold the Government to that.
This Government do not want to be a nanny state. Many of us welcome that, but sometimes children need a nanny if they are not getting adequate protection from other sources when they need it.
Lord McInnes of Kilwinning (Con)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Foster, for bringing this important debate before your Lordships’ House. I also welcome my noble friend to his new role in government. Noble Lords will be relieved to hear that I do not intend to use my full time allocation, but rather to use the time I have to lay out my own position on the response to the consultation.
I begin by laying out where I stand on the gaming industry, a position that I believe is shared across this House—we have already heard from the noble Lords, Lord Foster and Lord Butler—and within the Government. There is an opportunity now to find a sensible and responsible way forward in response to the response to the consultation. I pay tribute to the games industry and the enormous contribution it makes to the creative and electronic economy across the UK. It would be remiss of me not to make a special note of the impact that the games industry has had in Scotland, specifically in Dundee—a city where it has made a huge difference to the economy.
When I was a member of your Lordships’ Communications and Digital Committee I had several very helpful interactions with the industry, including chairing a conference on its future. I am not some Luddite who in any way denigrates the enormous part that gaming now plays across the ages and sexes. This is not an industry maintained by a stereotype of teenage boys gaming in their bedrooms through the night, but rather a market which is extremely diverse in age and gender. I speak as a friend of the industry and an advocate of the positive part that gaming plays in a healthy, managed way in the lives of millions across this country. Also, I am not someone whose first reaction to any problem is to look for a ban.
However, turning to the matter in hand, the Government’s response to the consultation currently does not goes quite as far as I would like in managing the balance between a thriving industry, while protecting young people from gambling, and the potential for acting as a gateway to negative life choices as they go forward. The fact is, as far as I can see it, that nearly all empirical studies have identified a relationship between loot boxes and gambling. That relationship, as the noble Lord, Lord Foster, said, may not be conclusively causal or directional, but the fact that one has been found suggests that the matter requires a precautionary approach. This has also been the outcome of committee inquiries in your Lordships’ House and the other place.
I have no issue with the ability of players, including under-18s, to augment their playing with specific purchases that are transparent and obvious, where an informed decision, with knowledge of value, can be made. The measures to allow probability to be shown before a purchase are a good step in the right direction, but this does not go far enough in providing categorical assurance that minors are not engaged in activities that can be viewed as gambling.
My noble friend the Minister’s department has invested significant time and effort in examining this knotty problem. I and others, I am sure, are very grateful for that investment of time and resource. The issue is indeed complex, but complexity should not be an excuse to avoid action. The fundamental point is that we have laws, which in the case of the National Lottery were tightened only in April 2021, to disallow under-18s from being able to gamble.
I have absolutely no issue with over-18s being able to buy loot boxes with a knowledge of probability and good practice safeguards; they are making an informed decision. But, for under-18s, we have a responsibility to safeguard. I therefore favour loot boxes not being allowed to be available to under-18s. We read in the consultation document that there is a concern that this could lead to minors using 18-plus accounts, but this argument would be equally valid about banning anything for under-18s.
Loot boxes clearly create an element of risk in the purchase that encourages further purchases. The analogy of a Kinder Surprise egg, which some in the industry used in response to the consultation, does not hold up to scrutiny, not least in terms of the financial resource involved. I reiterate that I am not saying that younger players should not be able to buy player and performance augmentation, but this should be on a straight purchase basis, just as it is with skins and other gaming elements.
Parental safeguards just do not work when so many parents are unaware of them. In preparation for this debate, I spoke to a number of responsible parents of gamers of my acquaintance. I asked them about loot boxes: some were vague, some thought that they had already been banned, some said they were no longer credible and some said that their children never bought them. I asked them to check with their children, and every single one of them had bought one in the last year, using their parents’ credit cards. They did not know it was a loot box; they just assumed that it was an extra augmentation to the game. Surely it would be more sensible to provide clarity to parents and children that they just cannot buy loot boxes.
In conclusion, I ask my noble friend the Minister to ensure that the Government build on the very real improvements included in the response to the consultation, and I ask that they work with industry and improve safeguards for all users. I am glad to hear that the working group will report early next year, as the noble Lord, Lord Butler, said. However, I ask my noble friend to ensure that consideration of the banning of loot boxes for under-18s remains part of the discussions, and that the door is not completely closed within the consideration of the review of the Gambling Act 2005. This is not about stopping income generation within gaming; rather, it is about removing the ability to gamble from those who would not be permitted to do so by the law in other areas.
Lord Trevethin and Oaksey (CB)
My Lords, I am also a member of Peers for Gambling Reform, led tirelessly by the noble Lord, Lord Foster of Bath, although my contribution is negligible compared to his and to the work done by the noble Lord, Lord Butler. I agree with everything that they have said, and I have also found the Government’s response to the consultation on this matter naive and unsatisfactory. I will develop certain criticisms.
First, the response recognises, fairly enough, that there is compelling evidence of an association between the purchasing of loot boxes and problem gambling. I recall that 12 peer-reviewed studies are cited, and they all come to the same conclusion. It might be thought that that represents a good reason for taking some sort of action to mitigate the damage being done by the availability of loot boxes in video gaming. But the Government’s response declines to take any such action on the basis that there is at the moment no satisfactory evidence to support a finding that there is a causal connection of the relevant type between purchasing loot boxes and problem gambling. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Foster, that, even if that were so, it would not in itself be a sufficient reason for complete inaction of the type commended by the Government. But I find completely unconvincing the Government’s position on the quality of the evidence for a causal connection between the two things. In the course of my brief discussion of loot boxes and all that they bring with them, I will suggest that it is obviously correct to infer that there is some relevant causal connection between what one might call excessively enthusiastic and expensive purchasing of loot boxes on the one hand and problem gambling on the other.
Secondly, in the course of my speech, I will agree with and develop the point made by other speakers that the purchasing of loot boxes is, in substance, a form of gambling. The Government’s response relies, inappropriately, on a semantic analysis of the definitions used in the Gambling Act 2005. A realistic assessment of the position would recognise the very close similarities between loot box purchasing and what one might call gambling in the strict sense.
Thirdly, the response is disappointing in that it pays almost no attention to what one might call the lived or real-life experience—I suppose it is real life—of those who play video games and are motivated or incentivised to buy loot boxes. Like the majority of Members of this House, I suspect, I am not a video gamer, although I am a gambler, as I have declared on other occasions, and I know all about gambling for all sorts of reasons. However, I have spent some time on YouTube over the last couple of days, looking at some interesting presentations of the opening of loot boxes, so I have some idea of what goes on when one pays one’s money and opens up a loot box. With respect, I say that nothing in the Government’s response suggests that the authors are familiar with or have paid sufficient attention to the visual and auditory stimuli used by the gaming industry to make loot boxes attractive.
Finally, I entirely agree with the noble Lord, Lord Butler, that the core message of the response—which is that, as things stand, it is sufficient to leave it to the industry to sort matters out—is wholly unrealistic and naive. It is also unfair to the gaming industry, which is a magnificent part of this country’s economic activity, because it ignores the acute conflict of interest that arises.
I will briefly develop what I have said about the Government’s position on an absence of evidence on the relevant type of causal relationship. Generally, the paper takes a rather odd approach to the role of evidence in the preparation of this sort of document. This does not augur very well for the White Paper we have been promised for months and months on the reform of gambling legislation in general. Of course, evidence is very important; it is taken in the course of this sort of consultation process, and it must be assembled and acted on. However, when I read the report referring favourably to the provision of evidence from respondents that children have less developed impulse control than adults, have a greater susceptibility to peer pressure than adults and may have a limited understanding of purchasing decisions, I wonder why it is thought necessary for any evidence to be given on those blindingly obvious matters at all. That is an indication that something rather strange is going on in relation to the handling of evidence.
Looking at this point about causation, what sort of evidence would be required to prove a causal connection between overenthusiastic purchasing of loot boxes on the one hand and problem gambling on the other? Would the research show that children developed a taste for gambling by unlawfully gambling online, then became problem gamblers, and then started to play video games and found that the purchase of loot boxes satisfied their craving to gamble? It is not likely that that evidence would be available; children generally get into video gaming first and then gambling later—only a bit later, unhappily, because of the accessibility of online gambling. That is the general sequence.
Might there be evidence that some human beings are predestined, for genetic reasons, to become problem gamblers, and the same innate characteristics that will make them problem gamblers cause them to be overenthusiastic purchasers of loot boxes? Maybe, but there is no such evidence of a genetic or neurological nature to that effect yet. I suggest that a more sensible analysis of the position would run as follows. First, there is a very close resemblance between the act of buying a loot box and the act of gambling on, say, an online slot machine. Secondly, the gaming industry presents loot boxes in a way that makes them virtually indistinguishable from some online slot machines. Even I am not stupid enough to play online slot machines, but I know what they look like. Thirdly, the buyer of a loot box unquestionably takes a risk, using in-game currency to buy something the value of which is unknown.
Fourthly, there is an illusion of control, in that different types of box—which, visually, could be a crate, pack or some form of container—may be chosen. They have different and rather odd names, they cost different amounts of money, and a child might well wrestle for some time with what he or she thinks is a delicate decision as to which box should be purchased to obtain what is hoped to be an ultra-rare product contained within. Fifthly, suspense is generated—I have seen this on YouTube—by a delay while the box is opened, or while it explodes slowly and dramatically, issuing forth all sorts of good things. Similar effects are created by suitably dramatic background noise. Sixthly, there is the possibility of a big win: the acquisition of some so-called ultra-rare item which will enable the gamer either to compete more effectively or to dress or equip the avatar in a way that will impress other users. Seventhly, the industry uses the notorious near miss effect, which can persuade the disappointed purchaser, who finds that the box contains some humdrum piece of equipment that is already possessed, to have another go and cough up some more money. In the words of an academic study footnoted to the government paper,
“the randomness is objectified and becomes part of the entertainment”.
I therefore entirely agree with my noble friend Lord Butler that, if it looks like a duck and does everything else that a duck does, it probably is a duck. In substance, then, this is probably gambling.
The paper relies on the definition of gambling in the Gambling Act and, at paragraph 35, says,
“we view the ability to legitimately cash out rewards as an important distinction.”
That is, if you gamble in the strict sense online or elsewhere and you win, you can turn your winnings into money or they represent money—which you can spend on other things, if you are wise enough to take it out and do so. Very well, that is one point, but I suggest that the distinction is more apparent than real: video gamers are using what is called “in-game currency” to gamble on a loot box which may contain something that they value—they may win; they may lose. The fact that what they are acquiring normally has value only within the virtual universe constructed by the game— although there are circumstances in which the contents of loot boxes can be traded for real money—is nothing to the point. This can be compared and contrasted—but mostly just compared—with the position of a problem gambler in the strict sense: the problem gambler risks cash and when that problem gambler wins cash, the value of it is, as it were, contained within the gambling universe and will be used to buy further gambling time. The analogies are compelling.
I am out of time, so I simply close by respectfully inviting the Minister to assist the House by indicating precisely what the Government expect the gaming industry to do to mitigate the risks connected to loot boxes. If I were running a gaming company and I read this response, I would not know what I had to do to clean things up.
Lord Addington (LD)
My Lords, this is one of those debates when you think that you have something to say, you wait to say it, but then somebody says it all before you. The noble Lord has probably just done the House a favour by getting rid of much of what I was going to say. I came across loot boxes and started taking them seriously while following my noble friend Lord Foster of Bath’s campaign, for which he deserves a gold star from the rest of us. I am sure that most of the Front Bench dealing with DCMS would like to give him something else, but never mind. We have a situation where something is clearly not right.
The difference between loot boxes and gambling seems to be one of semantics, as the noble Lord, Lord Trevethin and Oaksey, just said. It is totally artificial: players are taking a chance on something. It also seems to be inspired primarily by the thrill and chance of getting something good. I have a very old friend who works at a senior level in the gaming industry—I will not name him because I did not say that I was going to mention him—and we previously had a look at this issue. I will share a story about us to illustrate how senior he is in the gaming industry. I saw a picture of a BAFTA on his Facebook account, and I said, “Oh, you’ve been to the BAFTAs.” He replied, “No, I’ve won one for game design.” So this is someone who knows what they are talking about. When he asked me whether I knew about loot boxes, I said yes. He said that they were nasty ways of making more money. They really do nothing else. In our messages, he also added, “Oh, aren’t they illegal?”
Loot boxes are something that people do not quite get their hands on. The more you look at this idea that you might just get something if you purchase one, and it might just be useful, the fact is that the chance you will get that thing next time is incredibly attractive to somebody who is paying just a small sum of money, then another and another. It is an endorphin hit which makes you think, “Maybe I’ll get it.” I had not really taken on board the impact of the near-miss strike; I had only seen it a couple of times and had not really understood it properly, so the noble Lord must be congratulated on discussing that.
Anyone who does any form of gaming—even if it is, for someone like me, only card games on a phone—is in their own little world for a bit. The loot boxes are saying, “Have a look at this: you can get this thing which allows you to get further in this little world.” As has been pointed out, we all know that the adolescent male is probably most likely to want to dive into that world. That was certainly the case when I was an adolescent male. You have the idea that you are doing something that really brings you in, and that you can get a little further into it and more secure and successful by taking on that little extra hit, that little extra bit of expenditure—usually with a parent’s credit card. It draws you further and further in.
As I said, apparently only the British Government think that this is not gambling, from what we can make out—only because they devise rules that do not hit. It is also very rewarding for the games industry, which does not have to go back to my aforementioned friend, for example, and say, “Devise another level where you’ll need to make a purchase to go up.” Your development costs have actually been kept down to get a reward. Let us just have something that ensure that, to make a change in a classic shoot-‘em-up, such as body armour or extra gun capacity for someone’s video image as they blast things into the sunset—I will be told that I am being far too simplistic, but that is it—someone at least knows what they are buying. Basically, it is the case that they are very bad value. If you know what you are buying, buy it. If your game is good enough people will stay and make that purchase. Even if it is only for a limited period of time, they will know what they are getting. They will be able to come in and out of the game and ask what the value is of what they are doing and whether they can get a better product somewhere else.
If there is that eternal element of chance, you always come back to “It might be a bit better next time.” I have heard stories from colleagues about people discovering that money is being spent only when they look at their credit card and go, “No, that definitely isn’t a coffee shop and I didn’t have 43 cappuccinos in one day.” That is the level of expenditure that we are talking about.
If the Government will not do something, what sticks or carrots will they give to the games industry to do it itself? At the moment, it is quite clear that the industry has a financial incentive not to do anything. It could be made marginally more difficult by, say, reminding people to check on something. If you are doing something illegal or something you should not and someone tells you that you are doing it again, you will say “Yes, that’s right; I knew.” What will the Government do to engage on this? If the Government are not going to do this, they really have to just come down and say, “No”.
This is a creative, developing industry. If it cannot develop a monetising model that avoids this then it really is less attractive and has less capacity for the future than any of us thought. It should have that capacity within itself. Let us please make sure that people at least know what they are purchasing. There may well be an addictive element to that, but there will be some limits on it and it will be easier to spot and stop.
Can the Government please just say that they will do something? At the moment, they are obfuscating behind an odd definition and saying that nothing is going to happen. That is what it feels like—the Minister shakes his head; he will be able to tell me why in a few minutes. What is actually going to happen? If nothing, then we will simply keep coming back to this. The problems will get worse until there is some form of tragedy and the Government are dragged into doing something—that is what happens, let us face it. Then we will have to do something. Let us get ahead of the game, or at least catch up with it for once.
Baroness Merron (Lab)
My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Addington, and his request for action—as has been expressed by so many noble Lords today in the debate. I also congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Foster, on securing this debate and, more than that, on setting out the issues so clearly. I associate myself with the comments that he made about the need for a public health approach—that prevention is surely better than cure. That has underlined all of the debate today on an important matter that needs to be taken seriously by the Government.
Many people were disappointed when they read the Government’s response to the consultation on loot boxes prior to the summer break. As other noble Lords have highlighted, the Government acknowledged that there is a “consistent association” between the features of loot boxes and the characteristics of problem gambling, yet we await further action. We know that the Gambling Commission, various academics and multiple parliamentary committees have been calling on the Government to take action for some years. I therefore say to the Minister, who is new to his post—I have welcomed him previously and am glad to reiterate that welcome—that here is an opportunity to distinguish himself still further than he has done already. I hope that he will take up that opportunity.
As outlined in the Library briefing received by many noble Lords, a very high percentage of games available on the Google Play and Apple digital stores contain loot boxes, with a sizeable proportion of users paying for them at least once. I have previously made reference to the prevalence of media stories about high spends on loot boxes in games such as “FIFA” and “Call of Duty”, which are widely played on games consoles as well as on mobile phones. With all this in mind, the take-up of loot boxes is likely only to increase. They are becoming increasingly important to developers and, given the obvious links with gambling—as has been acknowledged to some degree—are we not looking at an exponential growth of risk in the coming years? As noble Lords have said, we should not wait for something of a crisis for action, but should seek to prevent that crisis happening.
Relatively tame controls around parental consent are indeed a step forward, but the question for the Minister is whether they are really sufficient to mitigate the risk that loot boxes become a gateway to “proper” gambling products. How are we to react to the effect of loot boxes on young people? We know that the rapid rise in online gambling activities affects not only children but parents, as the noble Lord, Lord McInnes, said—I was very interested to hear his comments about the role of parents in this. The rapid rise of online gambling activities has led to a lack of confidence for parents to understand and adequately protect their children from gambling harms. Some 42% of parents of children under 18 would not be confident in talking to their children about loot boxes—something that the noble Lord, Lord McInnes, bore out in his research. Indeed, 79% have never heard of skins betting. Should we not help parents to assist children and young people, and should we not help the children and young people themselves? Rates of harmful gambling among 17 to 20 year-olds are increasing more than threefold. There are some 55,000 children aged between 11 and 16 who are experiencing gambling harm in our country, with a further 85,000 estimated to be at risk. Does the Minister agree that this is a ticking time bomb that needs addressing?
It has been mentioned in this debate that several other countries have classified and/or applied gambling restrictions to loot boxes, yet the UK Government have opted against this. Will the Minister give us some indication as to why? One option, as we have heard, was to tie loot boxes in with the long-running and repeatedly delayed gambling review, but again the Government have declined this opportunity, as the noble Lord, Lord Butler, said. We now read reports that the Prime Minister is looking at scrapping the review altogether, meaning that practices that we know are harmful could be allowed to continue. Will the Minister comment on those reports and, if they are not true, will he tell your Lordships’ House when the much-delayed gambling White Paper will be published, so that we can ensure that the right legislation, the right regulation and the right resources are in place to protect people from gambling harms?
While I am on my list of requests for things we need, will the Minister provide an update on the video games research network, which it is hoped might guide and inform legislation to protect children and young people from gambling-related harms through video games? Further to that, it would be helpful if he would give details on progress made by the technical working group, which is due to be set up to develop industry-led solutions to mitigate the risk of harms from loot boxes in video games. We all know that the cost of living crisis is worsening, so has the department made any assessment of whether people may be tempted to try gambling as a way of covering growing household bills? If there has been such an assessment, what action is going to be taken? As we see a spiralling cost of living, this link will not go away.
On the matter of evidence, the noble Lord, Lord Trevethin and Oaksey, talked about the clear causal connections between loot boxes and problem gambling. There seems to be great resistance on the part of the Government to accept the evidence. If that reluctance continues, will the Minister consider a review of the existing evidence and perhaps identify any gaps in the evidence and seek to fill these?
Having listened to the debate today—as I have listened to debates on this subject a number of times, as many noble Lords have done—I am struck very much, and I hope it strikes the Minister equally, that there is a potential harm that access to loot boxes can do, particularly with regard to children. This is about the potential for problem gambling and it begs a question as to why the Government have dragged their feet in acting. Today gives an opportunity, I hope, for the Government to change that approach and seek to take action. I hope that we will hear from the Minister how he intends to do that.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Digital, Culture, Media and Sport (Lord Kamall) (Con)
My Lords, I begin by thanking the noble Lord, Lord Foster, for bringing this important debate to the House today, all noble Lords who have spoken and those noble Lords who took the opportunity to welcome me to my new role. I am grateful and I look forward to working with noble Lords. I am sure that those noble Lords who worked with me in my previous job will recognise that I have always been open to meetings with officials to probe further than can be done within the confines of this Chamber.
In May this year, my ministerial predecessor, my noble friend Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay, to whom I pay tribute for his work while he was on the Front Bench, responded to an Oral Question from the noble Lord, Lord Foster, about loot boxes. Since then, in July, we published the government response to the call for evidence and this debate therefore provides a useful and timely opportunity to discuss the findings and the next steps set out in the response in more detail. As I said, I will be happy to have more meetings with noble Lords on these issues and I welcome the continued scrutiny and engagement of this House on this.
Like other noble Lords who spoke, the Government are proud of the UK’s world-class video games sector and are committed to its continued growth. We introduced the video games tax relief in 2014 and have strengthened the UK’s reputation as a leading destination for developing games. In fact, as one noble Lord said, it has become so well known, you can now win Academy Awards for it. In addition, through the UK Games Fund, the Government are providing more than £8 million over this period to support the development of new games businesses and talent across the UK. But that comes with a large “however” or “but”. The scale and reach of the video games sector bring with them a responsibility to ensure high standards for protecting players. The Government are committed to ensuring that the UK is one of the safest places to be online, and this includes video games. We want all players, whether young people and children or vulnerable people, whatever their age, to have the tools and information they need to enjoy games safely.
In response to the debate today, I will set out some of our findings from the call for evidence—a number of noble Lords have already referred to these—and the steps we are taking. To begin, it was very helpful of the noble Lord, Lord Butler, to give a definition of loot boxes, but it was only half a definition, so I will continue by saying that the distinguishing feature of loot boxes is the random reward mechanism that allocates apparently randomised items to each purchase. Players do not know what they will get before opening the loot box. There are a variety of ways in which loot boxes are implemented, designed and used within games, including rewards that help players to compete in games, and cosmetic rewards, such as new skins, for example.
In response to growing concerns, including in this House and from players and parents, the Government ran a call for evidence, which was open for public submissions from September to November 2020. We received 32,000 responses from members of the public and 50 submissions from academics, the games industry and other organisations and individuals. This includes Peers for Gambling Reform and the All-Party Parliamentary Group for Gambling Related Harm. Many noble Lords paid tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Foster, for his leadership of that group. In addition, the Government commissioned an independent evidence assessment of academic literature on loot boxes, and I am grateful to noble Lords for referring to that today. Throughout this process, we are continuing to engage with the games industry, academics and other organisations and to press the industry in these forums on improving protection for players.
We published our response in July this year, and I recognise it has been a lengthy process but there were 32,000 submissions and 50 larger submissions. It is important that we consider these complex issues properly. But let me be quite clear: we agree that just because something is complex does not mean that you do nothing about it. It means you dive deeper into those issues and look at the links. As a former academic who sometimes wrote papers or had to assess papers for their use as evidence, I have been very careful to make sure that the conclusion comes from the evidence, rather than having an intended bias, before writing the paper. We have taken account of a huge number of submissions and I again thank all organisations and individuals who responded to that call.
The evidence identified a range of potential harms associated with loot boxes. This includes harms associated with gambling, as well as other potential mental health, financial and problem gaming-related harms. It suggests that the risk of harm is likely to be higher for children and younger people; we can agree on that. While the evidence base is still emerging, one of the more thoroughly explored harms from loot boxes is the nature of any possible association with gambling-related harm. A number of noble Lords asked about the nature of that association. The 15 peer-reviewed empirical studies considered by the InGAME evidence assessment found a stable and consistent association between loot box use and problem gambling. However, the research identified a range of plausible explanations that could underpin this association between loot boxes and problem gambling, and has not established a causal relationship, as noble Lords said. Some noble Lords challenged that, but I want to explore the other potential explanations.
Explanations include the fact that loot box purchasers are already heavily engaged in a range of gambling activities; that other factors, such as impulsivity, drive this association; that loot box purchases exhibit maladaptive motives, creating uncertainty for their users; or that loot box purchase itself leads to gambling-related harms. We have to consider all these possibilities in the ongoing academic debate. For example, a third factor, such as impulsivity, may underpin higher engagement in both gambling and loot boxes. So, evidence emerged of a number of other harms in our call for evidence, including financial harms, mental health harms and a possible relationship with problem gaming behaviours. The other thing that should be remembered when we look at a definition is that it is possible to purchase loot boxes in games without paying any real-world money at all. That is something we have to be quite clear about: how do we treat those players?
In addition to harms, the call for evidence considered the voluntary and statutory protections that have been introduced. Games companies have introduced a number of measures, including those that noble Lords referred to today. In response to the call for evidence, the Government’s view is that purchases of loot boxes should be unavailable to all children and young people unless and until they are enabled by a parent or guardian—it is not enough to say that; we are engaging with industry in various working groups to make it a reality—and that all players should have access to, and be aware of, spending controls and transparent information to support safe and responsible gaming; and that better evidence and research, enabled by improved access to data, should be developed to inform future policy-making.
A number of issues came up in the debate, and it is really important that we engage with them. I do not have the exact answers here now, so I am very happy to write to noble Lords and to allow them to ask my policy officials their questions in further detail. For example, the noble Lord, Lord McInnes, talked about younger gamers buying loot boxes without parental knowledge. That is undoubtedly a problem. We have seen that even a 10 year-old kid can be much more tech-savvy than their parents and can run rings around them when it comes to these issues. I will look into that to see if I can come back with an answer, but I hope that noble Lords will also be able to ask those questions directly when I arrange meetings on request.
We have made some progress on industry-led protections, but it has been uneven. We have been quite clear about this, and we know that more should be done by games companies and platforms. However, rather than imposing a solution, we want to work with the industry to ask how it will tackle this problem, given its creativity, innovation and technical experience, and how it will deliver tangible progress in the near future.
Once again, we want parents to be able to make informed choices. We welcome the fact that some platforms require parental authorisation for spending by under-18s within games, and we are calling on those who have not yet introduced such measures to introduce them and to ensure that loot boxes are not purchased without informed parental permission. We have to do more work on that. For all players, our view is that harm minimisation and player safety should be embedded into game design, and that is why we want to work with the industry to make sure that it embeds these measures into the games, rather than saying, “You must do this.” We expect games companies and platforms to provide further information to players and to look at that minority of players who spend a disproportionately large amount of money on loot boxes, whether or not they have parental allowance or permission, who may be at a greater risk of harm.
To deliver on these objectives, we have brought together a technical working group, as noble Lords said, which includes game industry trade bodies, platforms, publishers and developers. The group engages with academics and consumer and third sector groups to ensure that solutions are workable for parents and players. It has met several times already and has heard directly from a number of academics, including—as the noble Lord, Lord Foster, referred to—David Zendle, who has also attended the loot box technical working group. The DCMS chief scientific adviser, Professor Tom Rodden, has also visited the University of York and met David Zendle’s team, so there is ongoing interaction. The working group has met several times already, and it is actually meeting again today to discuss in detail how the objectives set out in the government response can be delivered. That is what the focus of the group’s discussion today will be. We want the group to facilitate the development of industry-led best practice guidance on the use of loot boxes, which should support players and parents across all platforms, from PC to mobile games.
We will also provide an update on industry-led measures by the first quarter of 2023, which I am sure will be of interest to noble Lords, but let me be quite clear: the Government expect action. The industry should be aware that the Government will not hesitate to consider legislative options if we deem it necessary—if these working groups do not deliver the action that noble Lords are calling for today. We are also working collaboratively on the video games research framework, and we hope to publish that by the end of the year. Its purpose is to facilitate better evidence and research but also to enable better access to data to support that evidence.
In addition to setting out why we believe action is needed, the government response considers the case for making changes to statutory consumer protections for users of loot boxes. I understand the views, including those raised by many noble Lords today, that the Government should go further, particularly with regard to the Gambling Act. The Government’s response to the call for evidence has been developed alongside our review of the Gambling Act, and the crossovers between gaming and gambling have been carefully considered. For noble Lords who asked about the delayed White Paper, we expect it to be coming out in the coming weeks—the noble Lord, Lord Foster, can chalk that up as a victory.
I want to be absolutely clear that the Government share strongly the views expressed today, but we do not intend to amend the scope of gambling regulation. Regulating loot boxes as gambling is only one potential means of mitigating the risks. Noble Lords may ask why, so let me go into some detail. First, while many loot boxes share some similarities with traditional gambling products, the Government view the ability to legitimately cash out rewards as an important distinction. In addition, entering the game without real money is not gambling real money, so we have to be very careful about that. The Gambling Commission has shown that it will take action when there has been unlicensed gambling within games, and noble Lords will be aware of the prosecution of FutGalaxy in 2017, which shows that action will be taken.
Secondly, changing the Gambling Act with regards to loot boxes would have some unintended consequences. It would require substantial changes to the gambling tax system, which is not designed to calculate duties owed on gambling transactions where the component parts have no clear monetary value—loot boxes have user-defined value in games, but they do not have a clear monetary value. Regulating loot boxes as gambling would also increase the scope and costs of running the Gambling Commission at a time when we are giving it more challenges by updating gambling regulation to bring it into the modern age—as I mentioned, the White Paper will be out soon. There is also the risk of other unintended consequences or activities. In my former career as an academic and researcher, I did quite a lot of work on unintended consequences, and we have to be quite clear about this.
However, in not taking forward changes to the Gambling Act, we believe that the statutory consumer protection obligations will continue to be the relevant regulatory framework. How do we make sure that those obligations are used in a proper way to tackle this issue? That work is being progressed through the DCMS-convened technical working group and will lead to further improvements. So we believe that it is premature to pursue legislative options at the moment, but we have said to the industry at these working groups that we will not hesitate to use that option if not enough is done. With the industry’s creativity, we are looking for it to come back to us with solutions it can design into a game, rather than being bolted on, to make it as integrated as possible.
I will quickly address some of the issues raised. Even though the gambling White Paper has not been published yet, we have already taken some action. We have banned gambling on credit cards, tightened restrictions on VIP schemes, strengthened the rules on how online operators identify those at risk of harm, and updated the gambling advertising codes. That shows all the things that can be done, and more can be done before passing legislation.
A number of noble Lords referred to other countries. We are looking at the evidence from Belgium and the Netherlands, but there are some issues here. For example, there are protracted legal proceedings going on in the Netherlands over how gambling laws should apply to certain loot boxes, and we want to see the outcome of those before looking at the option here. In addition, research in Belgium suggested that there is still loot box content in mobile games, despite the Belgian regulator’s decision to consider loot boxes as a form of gambling. So, once again, these countries have done something, but has it been effective enough? We need to look at the evidence of what has worked in other countries, rather than just what has been done there.
In conclusion, there are some other questions I have not answered, and I will make sure I write to noble Lords to deal with these issues. We all share the same objective, but we may think that there are different ways to achieve it. We are working closely with industry, academics and others to bring them together to find those solutions, but we also have the threat of potential legislation if the gaming industry and others do not come forward with appropriate protections. I am sure that the industry has heard loudly and clearly from noble Lords in this debate today, even though they may well be in a working group. It is quite clear that there is a strong feeling that something must be done. We want to do it with the industry, in co-operation, but I also understand and welcome pressure from noble Lords on the industry to make sure that we deliver on this.
In that light, before I sit down, I once again repeat my invitation to have meetings with noble Lords with the appropriate officials, to allow them not only to press my officials on that but to make us aware of things we may not have considered. We think we have considered everything, but we are very happy to consider all the evidence. With that, I once again thank the noble Lord, Lord Foster, for securing this debate, and I look forward to working constructively with him and other noble Lords in the future.
Lord Foster of Bath (LD)
My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply to the debate and his clarity about being willing to meet, and I hope he will meet with Peers for Gambling Reform in the near future. I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in what I believe is a very important debate, not least because of the issues that have been raised about harm currently being done to children and vulnerable people. I believe that further action that is way beyond the sort of promises we heard from the Minister must be taken, although I welcome the work that is being done. I believe—and I think the Minister has heard this—that far more needs to be done.
I think we have been clear, and I hope the Minister will understand, that we are huge fans of the games industry in this country. Before this debate, I was in a meeting of the Communications and Digital Committee, hearing from one of the leading experts in the world of digital games industry, who rightly pointed out that they are leading the way in new developments in VR and AR that are not only going to help their industry but areas such as health and education also—these are very important. As I hope the Minister has heard, we are clear that where they have a significant financial vested interest in the issue of loot boxes, it is wrong to expect them to take responsibility for dealing with the concerns that we have.
While we have been debating, reports have come out that No. 10 is debating a major U-turn on the mini-Budget. I had hoped that this debate would have led to a smaller U-turn on the issue of loot boxes. Sadly, we have not had that, but I am grateful for what the Minister said and the offers that he made. We look forward to further discussions on these issues. I beg to move.
Imprisonment for Public Protection Scheme
(2 years, 1 month ago)
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Baroness Burt of Solihull
To ask His Majesty’s Government what progress they have made in producing a new action plan for offenders still serving indefinite sentences under the Imprisonment for Public Protection scheme.
Baroness Burt of Solihull (LD)
My Lords, I am most grateful for the opportunity to bring this issue before your Lordships’ House today. My noble friend Lady Hamwee, who originally managed to secure this debate, has stood by to allow others more time to speak, as this is an important issue about which noble Lords feel strongly, given the number who have put their names down to speak today. I will follow her lead by being as brief as possible in my remarks
I heartily welcome the report of the House of Commons Justice Committee on IPP sentences. The report pulls no punches in its description of the dysfunctionality of the current IPP system and the mental toll it takes on those trapped within it. It makes clear that unless considerable resources and improvements to the system are employed, the current rump of about 3,300 IPP prisoners—either on recall or never having been released at all—will not diminish significantly anytime soon.
I do not want to spend time going into the history of how we got here—only to say that, since 2016, several action plans have been implemented—but progress has been slow, to put it mildly. The current plan focuses on 15 different work streams, each of which seeks to tackle a different aspect of the problem, such as mental health issues, progressive transfers and so on. This is clearly ineffective without resources and without regular monitoring, reviewing and evaluation of the effectiveness of the different programmes.
The report recommends a fresh action plan to include clear performance measures for each work stream, someone accountable, and a timeframe for completion of each activity. Then we will know what the targets are and be able to measure how effectively they are working within the target timescales. The committee recommended that this revised plan be published by around March 2023.
I must tell the Minister that I have a lot of questions, and if he is unable to answer any of them today, will he kindly undertake to write to me and other noble Lords with the answers?
On the new action plan recommendations, are the Government currently working on a new action plan along the lines of the Justice Committee’s recommendations? Will they at least aspire to meet the timescale for producing the plan recommended in this report? Will the plan include clear performance measures for each work stream? Will someone be held accountable for performance within a specific timeframe?
The report is graphic on the psychological harm caused by IPP sentences. Will the MoJ and the HMPPS set out how they intend to improve access to mental health support? Will the Government publish the commissioned report by Professor Paul Moran into the offender personality disorder pathway by this December, as the Joint Committee report recommends?
Another major inhibitor to progress is the lack of appropriate parole preparation courses. Long waiting lists add time to sentences before the prisoner can even reach the starting gate for assessment. Will the MoJ and HMPPS ensure there are enough places on courses?
There is the whole system of managing the release into the community and the parole system to consider. Will sufficient resources be made available to curtail the inordinate delays in helping to prepare prisoners for parole? Will the parole system prioritise consideration of IPP prisoners, and will more help be made available to enable prisoners who have been released to make a success of life on the other side of the bars?
All those recommendations deal with the system as it stands, but the report goes further—much further. The committee recommends a reduction in the qualifying license period from 10 years to five. Our doughty cross-party team of Peers who worked on the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Bill earlier this year—many of whom I see in the Chamber today—argued strongly for this, and I hope the Government have had time to reflect and see they can make a big difference without compromising public safety.
The final, primary and most radical recommendation of the report is to end the plight of those still suffering from this cruel, inhumane sentence altogether, by conducting a resentencing exercise with a small, time-limited expert committee and members of the senior judiciary. I do not propose to speculate on exactly how this would work, and I know it would not be easy, but this terrible, unjust treatment of prisoners must end. Will the Government look at the feasibility of creating this committee and how it might go about its work?
I commend Bob Neill and his committee: they took the brave step of showing a path to end this sentence. They have not consigned the solution to the “too difficult” box, and neither should we.
Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood (CB)
My Lords, that was a masterly introduction to this debate, and I am honoured to follow it. As the noble Baroness, Lady Burt, says, this report is to be welcomed greatly.
Your Lordships’ House has long recognised the shocking injustices suffered by all those sentenced under this scheme—injustices continuing and growing 10 years after its abolition. We have hitherto been given to understand that the other place, the all-powerful elected Chamber, is unpersuadable; we have been told they do not have the appetite to change the law in a way which could put at liberty some who could reoffend and who are currently—however unfairly and most of us regard it thus—lawfully locked up.
This House of Commons report is not so hard-hearted, but nor is it soft-hearted; rather, it is hard-headed. It contains a masterly analysis of the wrong and what is necessary to put it right within the system. At last, it is recognised that the scheme has resulted in a gross injustice. IPP sentences are effectively life sentences by the back door. The committee describes it as “preventive detention”, imprisoning people
“on the basis of what they might do, rather than on the basis of what they have done.”
As the committee recognises, the only actual, long-term, final solution is for those still affected to be resentenced according to just principles.
Of course, everybody ever sentenced to an IPP sentence—between April 2005 and December 2012, until its prospective abolition under LASPO—is still subject to this injustice; not only those still detained, many for years beyond tariff dates and several beyond the statutory maximum for their offence, but everybody. That is a total of 8,711 IPPs, the only exceptions being the tiny handful who have finally secured the discharge of their licences by definition, 10 years after their initial release. All these are to be regarded as victims of an unjust scheme, who desperately need far greater help than most have been getting in order to secure and then retain, at long last, their liberty. As the committee recognises, what is needed now is an intensive, well-resourced, new scheme, custom built to maximise the prospect of safe and sustainable release for this whole cohort of our unfortunate fellow citizens. The report points the way ahead.
Lord Garnier (Con)
My Lords, in a short debate such as this, it is often not possible to say anything at all and certainly not anything original. However, the two previous speakers, the noble and learned Lord and the noble Baroness—I congratulate her on achieving this debate—have demonstrated that my first premise is wrong. I congratulate them on what they had to say.
That said, I happily refer once again to my connections to the Prison Reform Trust and a few other charities connected to the welfare of prisoners, and pay tribute to the small band of noble and noble and learned Lords, many of whom are taking part in this debate, who have kept the continuing injustice of indeterminate sentences for public protection before your Lordships’ House, the Government and elsewhere.
I shall make a couple of points. First, the Commons Select Committee report is a powerful document, as the noble Baroness made clear. It needs to be taken seriously by the Government and not just put in the “too difficult” file. The Government must act quickly on the recommendations that can be dealt with now and make a solemn promise, despite the many other matters on the public agenda, to produce a plan or schedule to deal with those recommendations that will take a bit more time. Whatever the timetable, the work must start now. Procrastination or equivocation will no longer satisfy the need for justice to be done and for hope to be restored to all those still incarcerated many, many years after their tariffs expired. The burden of proof is very much on the Government to show why no or little action is the answer, and why those still in prison beyond their tariff or those who have already served longer than the maximum for the underlying offence should not be released.
Secondly, historians can occasionally identify watershed moments in the past which turned events. There have been debates, books or public events which, it can be said with the benefit of hindsight, influenced, or even catalysed, the course of history. Is it too fanciful to ask my noble and learned friend the Advocate-General to recognise that we are now at a time when the Government must do things about IPPs which in the future can be seen to have made that real and civilising difference? This sentence, which the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, has bravely admitted should never have been enacted, was abolished 10 years ago; let us strike out now and clear its foul stench from our justice system. If our forebears stopped sending children up chimneys and abolished slavery, I rather think that we can get rid of the remaining injustices caused by IPPs. Can I see a Wilberforce or a Shaftesbury on the Treasury Bench?
Lord Woolf (CB)
My Lords, I look to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Garnier, for a sign that the message has got home. This injustice should never have happened in the first place but, having happened, surely there is a very heavy burden on the state to rectify the injustice for which it is responsible. I hope this reminder, if it is needed—I hope it is not—gets home and persuades the House and those responsible in this area of government that enough has been enough.
Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd (CB)
My Lords, I pay tribute to the noble Baroness in securing this debate and to the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, who has admitted that this was a mistake.
I want to make three points. First, we now have what is essential for policy, which is an evidence-based report. The committee listened to everyone on all sides. It has produced a clear analysis. The conclusion from that analysis is clear: although there are a few people who present an ongoing danger for a long time, the position of the vast majority needs reconsideration as incarcerating them for longer puts the public at greater risk.
Secondly, we must bring to an end delay, procrastination and failing to grasp the problem. It is very long standing. When I visited Leeds Prison in February 2006—some months after the sentence had been introduced—it was clear that the problems that have emerged were already apparent. There is no excuse for the inordinate and inexcusable delay. The report sets out with absolute clarity the effect of inaction. Inaction in many cases does not necessarily make the position worse but in this case it has. I have sat on cases where it is self-evident that the terms of the IPP sentence have made the prisoner more dangerous. That we cannot go on with. The reasons are set out with the utmost clarity. They are completely accurate and I need say no more.
Thirdly, I welcome all the solutions, but in the time allowed I will say something about resentencing. This was first raised with the Government by me in 2010, so it is nothing new. There are very good examples of where the judiciary and the Government have worked together to get sentencing right. The 2012 Act was got right with such work, save for this one problem. The experience of dealing with resentencing on murder—in which I had a role to play—has worked. Although there are difficulties, they can be overcome.
I urge the Minister: use an evidence-based report, do not delay, do not procrastinate and, at long last, achieve justice.
Lord Trevethin and Oaksey (CB)
My Lords, it is an honour to follow the noble and learned Lord. I read yesterday his judgment in the Roberts case in 2016, in which the Court of Appeal described the circumstances of various offences which had led to the imposition of IPP sentences in the relevant period. The court, for the reasons explained in its decision, had to reject the appeals because they were not good as a matter of law, but I was left reflecting that those individual offenders had committed offences that were certainly serious—they were not trivial—but far from being the most serious types of offence that come before the courts. Those offenders, if still in prison, and some may well be, would have been sitting in prison now for 15 years or so watching other offenders come and go. These other offenders who had committed markedly more serious offences and have since been released while they remain in prison, unable to obtain parole for a number of reasons powerfully and devastatingly set out in the House of Commons committee report.
Coming for the first time to understanding the detail of this shocking state of affairs, the reasons, it strikes me, include the following. First, an outrageous lack of resource was made available following the imposition of this new and strange regime. Secondly, the striking fact, as given in evidence by a number of prisoners, is that prison is sometimes not an easy place to demonstrate that one is of a peaceful disposition. It is sometimes a place in which it is unwise to make that claim to your fellow inmates. Thirdly, and most troubling of all, is the fact made so strikingly in this report that this regime, with its unfair and cruel imposition of potentially indeterminate imprisonment, has itself impaired the mental health of many of these prisoners in a way that has made it even more difficult for them to satisfy the Parole Board release test.
I think there are still around 3,000 IPP prisoners in prison. That is a shade over a third of all those subjected to these sentences in the first place. That is a lot of prisoners. Apart from the possibility of a resentencing exercise, which I can see will generate problems, but may well be inevitable—if it is going to happen, it should happen now—there is one possibility that I respectfully ask the Minister to consider in his response. It is that canvassed by the committee report, namely using the power under Section 128 of the LASPO Act 2012 to reverse the burden of proof for IPP prisoners when they make their applications to the Parole Board so that the burden rests on, as it were, the state to demonstrate that the relevant prisoner remains dangerous. That would reduce some of the current unfairness.
Lord Moylan (Con)
My Lords, rarely can a report from a Select Committee have been welcomed with such joy by those directly affected by it. What is perhaps most welcome about it is its sense of urgency and dispatch. We have discussed this topic for quite a long time now. We have had warm words and sympathy from Ministers, but we have not had evidence of the urgency and dispatch that this report so rightly calls for. Ministers and officials wish to be seen as just, but they know that they are practising a major injustice. They wish to be seen as humane, but they know that they are continuing a monument to inhumanity.
Think about this briefly from the point of view of those affected: prisoners who are told that they are in prison for life but can get out if they demonstrate this, attend certain courses and go through certain hoops. They then find that they cannot demonstrate it: the courses are not available or, if they can get on one, they then find they might be moved to another prison before they can attend it. No wonder their mental health has deteriorated. No wonder they do not talk about it. Look at paragraph 49:
“I don’t speak to staff as any mention of a mental health issue goes on your prison record and will be brought up at board and can block release. The truth of it is we are all suffering from mental health problems because of the sentence but we are frightened to speak up”.
Imagine being in that position.
Think about the licensee, the person out on licence, having to demonstrate for 10 years that they are of good character or whatever, subject to being capriciously taken back into incarceration. Look at paragraph 115, which tells you that the majority of those taken back into prison have not committed a further offence; they have simply failed to satisfy their parole officer that they should remain out.
Think also here about the psychologists involved: people who are there to heal, but know that by giving a correct clinical judgment about the mental health of the prisoner, they are not assisting that prisoner but condemning him to continue in the circumstances that are the cause of the mental health problem. They feel deeply compromised in the role they are asked to carry out in prison in dealing with IPP prisoners. One of the most touching things in the report was the evidence of the prisoner who said that the best thing that ever happened to him was being sent to a mental hospital during his sentence, because at least there he was treated like a human being.
Finally, I ask your Lordships to think about the families, because they are serving the sentence too. With that, I come to my question for the Minister. There are two groups representing the families: UNGRIPP, the United Group for Reform of IPP, and the IPP Committee in Action. They will be lobbying the prisoners’ MPs on 19 October. Will my noble friend secure a meeting for them with the Secretary of State and the Lord Chancellor, either on 19 October or on some date soon after that, because they wish their voice to be heard and for Ministers to take this up and pursue it properly, as this report recommends?
Lord McNally (LD)
My Lords, I thank my noble friends Lady Burt and Lady Hamwee for securing this debate and pay warm tribute to Sir Bob Neill and his committee. Sir Bob has been a constant supporter of prison reform and that is reflected in this report. I also send my good wishes to the new Prisons Minister, Rob Butler MP, who was an assiduous and thoughtful member of the Youth Justice Board during my tenure between 2014 and 2017.
My locus in this debate is that I was the Minister who took the LASPO Bill through the Lords and abolished IPPs—as we thought. I made it clear that good existing IPPs would be dealt with by various means, including prisoners being able to earn their release through various training schemes and rehabilitation programmes, to which the noble Lord, Lord Moylan, just referred. The truth was that that idea was foiled by the various Catch-22s to which the noble Lord referred, including a lack of resources.
No one has claimed that LASPO denied judges the opportunity to hand down strict sentences—I was pleased to hear the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas, refer to this—and the LASPO regime has stood the list of time. What remains is a hangover, which both the Minister who introduced IPPs, the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, and the Minister who thought he had abolished IPPs, have said does not work as we thought it would and remains a stain on our justice system.
Let me put one shade of doubt into our debate. Throughout my time in the Ministry of Justice, attempts at prison reform were knocked back by 10 Downing Street with the simple message “not politically deliverable”. Throughout this time, we have had to face the problem that both Front Benches have been keen to avoid being outflanked on the right by being seen to be soft on prison reform. I fear that this is still the problem and it will need a great deal of courage to overcome it. This is not a plan to set free dangerous criminals but what a civilised country would do. I hope the Minister has come with a brief accepting the report and committing the Government to legislative action to right this wrong.
As I came into the Chamber, I received an email from the British Psychological Society, from which I shall read only one sentence:
“A resentencing exercise would restore a sense of certainty, hope and fairness: three vital ingredients to behavioural change, engagement with psychological support and compliance with the law.”
This has been an overwhelming message to Ministers. I hope they are listening.
Lord Anderson of Ipswich (CB)
My Lords, I signed up for this debate for two reasons: a nagging discomfort about the handful of IPP sentences that I felt myself obliged to impose—not on the most serious criminals—as a Recorder of the Crown Court, prior to 2012; and respect for and solidarity with those noble and learned Lords who have done battle on this subject for so many years.
I simply add two stray observations. First, as the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown of Eaton-under-Heywood has pointed out, the Justice Committee’s report noted that the IPP sentence is unusual in that it detains individuals in prison on the basis of what they might do, rather than on the basis of what they have done. It occurred to me that similar comments are often made about the sentencing of terrorists—the so-called precursor offences—and indeed about the effective house arrest of terrorist suspects by executive measures, such as TPIMs. The pre-emptive aspect of counterterrorism law rightly results in particularly anxious public and parliamentary scrutiny. The same uncertainty that contributes, according to this report, to the high levels of self-harm and suicide of IPP prisoners was something this House had well in mind when it refused to allow TPIMs to become indefinite—a position to which the Government eventually agreed in the Counter-Terrorism and Sentencing Act 2021.
While we can get it broadly right where terrorists are concerned, it is depressing that we still have not corrected a manifest injustice for those convicted of ordinary criminal offences; an injustice that was recognised as such not only by the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, but by Michael Gove and Liz Truss when they were Lord Chancellors in the middle of the last decade. It is an injustice that, as the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas, said, may even make the subjects of that injustice more dangerous.
Secondly, the committee notes that it was the decision to curtail the usual discretion of judges to determine the most appropriate sentence for each offender that led to the initial proliferation of the IPP sentence. There is there, surely, a cautionary tale. We see in this place repeated proposals for remote control of judicial discretion, whether by minimum sentences in criminal cases or by seeking to influence the grant of remedies in civil cases—I think of the Environment Act 2021 and, rather more happily, of the Judicial Review and Courts Act 2022. Such attempts are liable to cause more problems than they solve because of that most foundational law of all, the law of unintended consequences. That is certainly what we have seen with IPPs.
I strongly support the Justice Committee’s recommendation of a comprehensive resentencing exercise for the reasons that it gives and look forward to finding out whether the Minister is able to do so as well.
Baroness Hamwee (LD)
My Lords, I am unable to maintain my self-denying ordinance. I had hoped to give other noble Lords more time than has been allowed, although I cannot work out the arithmetic. Noble Lords have been particularly succinct, so having spotted the gap, I will move into it.
I have been particularly struck over the last few days by the emails that I have received from family, friends and campaigners in this area who all thought that I would be leading on this. I have thought about how much this regime brings the law into dispute and what a very serious matter that is. If somebody had written a novel about all of this, we would say that it could not happen; but it has and it must not go on.
Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede (Lab)
My Lords, I want to open by thanking the noble Baronesses, Lady Burt and Lady Hamwee, for securing this debate. I agree that the noble Baroness, Lady Burt, gave a masterly and comprehensive introduction to the issue. I also extend my best wishes to Rob Butler MP, who is the new relevant Minister. I served with him as a youth magistrate at Highbury magistrates’ court for a number of years and wish him well.
We too welcome the JSC’s report. It pulls no punches. It makes concrete recommendations, and I will listen to the Minister’s response to them with great interest. As the noble and learned Lord, Lord Brown, said, it is now 10 years since the abolition of the IPP scheme. There has been a consistent effort from many in this House to move forward and try to find a way of resolving the wrong that has been done to the many people who are currently languishing in our prisons. My noble friend Lord Blunkett has bravely spoken out against the regime that he himself introduced.
There have been some exceptional contributions today but the gist of them is that the Government need to respond positively and urgently to the recommendations made. It is also fair to say, to take on board the point made by the noble Lord, Lord McNally, that there is a shade of doubt. We need to acknowledge that. There is a political decision to be made about the possibility of releasing dangerous prisoners, and there needs to be a proper way of reducing those risks.
I want to make one major point that is different from the points made by other noble Lords and to speak to the brief from the National Association of Probation Officers, which wrote to me about this matter. Its point is covered most fully in paragraphs 93 and 94 of the JSC’s report. In a nutshell, it is about resourcing. It is about allowing probation officers to do their job properly, to have training, and to provide resources for offenders once they have been released and are out in the community. It is no accident that the support is not adequate and there is a high level of recall for these prisoners. That is a problem that can be partially addressed by the Government recognising that there is an additional training and resource element for the probation service. I hope that the Minister will address this specific point, because it is one that I have been asked to raise here today.
The Advocate-General for Scotland (Lord Stewart of Dirleton) (Con)
My Lords, I join many of today’s speakers by thanking the noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, for securing this important debate. I say how glad I am to see her in her place and how much I appreciated her succinct contribution.
I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Burt, for opening the debate and laying down so many challenges for me to meet in the form of questions. In the spirit of good will and co-operation across the whole House, let me begin by providing her with a specific answer to one of the questions she asked. The report by Professor Moran on the offender personality disorder pathway was published today on GOV.UK. With that expression of delight from noble Lords, I should perhaps sit down, but I have more to say in response to the many points taken up by your Lordships.
It is indeed the case that the IPP sentence continues to generate enormous interest, concern and challenge in this House. The Ministry of Justice has certainly felt the strength of feeling from many noble Lords in previous debates on this matter. I acknowledge the work of the probation service, to which the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby of Shulbrede, referred a moment ago, in playing its part in addressing the difficult problems that have emerged as a result of this piece of legislation.
As noble Lords will know, the IPP sentence became available for the courts to use from April 2005. When the sentence was abolished in December 2012, there were more than 6,000 offenders in prison serving an IPP sentence. Since that time, the Parole Board has released a substantial number of those prisoners on licence, although I assure the House that we recognise that there is still much more to be done.
On 30 June this year, there were 1,492 offenders in prison serving the IPP sentence who had never been released, and 1,434 offenders serving it following recall. In light of these numbers, I should here reaffirm the Government’s commitment, through the work of His Majesty’s Prison and Probation Service, to support: first, those serving the IPP sentence in prison, to reduce their risk to the point where the Parole Board, in the exercise of its independent function and discretion, judges that they are safe to release; and secondly, those serving the IPP sentence in the community, to progress to the point where the Parole Board, in the exercise of that same discretion, judges that their IPP sentence may safely be terminated. Our commitment will be delivered through the HMPPS action plan.
As your Lordships will be aware, it has long been the Government’s intention to review and refresh the action plan once the Justice Select Committee published its report following the IPP inquiry. We welcome the fact that, after a year-long inquiry, collation of the evidence base to which the noble Lord, Lord Anderson of Ipswich, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd, referred, was published on 28 September. That means that we can now review thoroughly this important collation of evidence and recommendations in the context of consideration of our next steps. However, I emphasise that the Government have not stood idly by, awaiting the publication of this report. Work has been done to ameliorate matters for persons serving such sentences, as I will advise your Lordships.
As your Lordships have noted, the Justice Committee has laid out a clear recommendation for a new IPP action plan and a new approach to its oversight. The committee wants focused, actionable guidance to ensure that the plan has a clear strategic priority and ownership, and for HMPPS to deliver more in terms of fixed timeframes and performance measures. The Government welcome the publication of the committee’s report and view it as a real opportunity to take stock and identify areas for possible improvement. As I have observed, HMPPS has been working very diligently, over a considerable period, to deliver improved prospects for those serving IPP sentences. However, we must always be responsive to new information and take further steps to ensure that this work is robust, structured, and properly directed.
A full government response will be provided to the Justice Committee by 28 November this year, with an updated IPP action plan to follow. I emphasise that 28 November is the final date. My noble and learned friend Lord Bellamy, the Minister with responsibility in this area, will be very much looking forward to sharing and discussing progress on this with your Lordships over the coming months.
The noble and learned Lord, Lord Thomas of Cwmgiedd, in his powerful submission, acknowledged the importance of evidence, and of an evidence base on which to work. I emphasise that such an evidence base, together with the facts and statistics already available to the Government, must be subject to proper interpretation and analysis. However, I hope that this will not amount to what my noble and learned friend Lord Garnier potentially styled it as procrastination, or to equivocation.
While our focus is now on revising the action plan to address the Committee’s recommendations, it is important in a debate such as this to give a short overview of what has been delivered and achieved thus far in support of bettering the prospects of those serving an IPP sentence and in permitting them to progress through the system. Indeed, many of the improvements delivered in recent years will remain key features of the IPP action plan, as they have been shown to be effective in supporting progression.
In September 2016, a joint HMPPS and Parole Board IPP action plan was introduced, overseen by a board of senior representatives from prisons, probation, the Parole Board, health services and psychology services. I place particular emphasis on that latter component because of the profound concern that your Lordships have exhibited in relation to the mental health of persons imprisoned in this way. This early version focused significantly on improving the processes associated with the delivery of an efficient and timely parole process. At the time, there was a significant backlog of oral hearings which had a particular bearing on the prospects for IPP prisoners to secure progression, but, through the work outlined in the first action plan, the efficient flow and handling of cases improved significantly and that backlog was eliminated.
Once the parole process was operating efficiently, focus shifted largely to what HMPPS could and would do to support IPP prisoners, so that they could embark on their parole reviews with realistic hopes of showing the Parole Board that the statutory release test was met in their case. Then, as in each year from 2016, the Parole Board released hundreds from their IPP sentence for the first time and, as more were being managed in the community on an IPP licence, HMPPS began to explore what was needed to support those eligible to apply for the supervision requirements of their IPP licence to be suspended and, later, to apply for their IPP licence to be terminated altogether.
I now turn to the specific achievements of the IPP action plan thus far. I start with the case review initiative delivered by psychology services. These are comprehensive reviews, vital to identifying the most appropriate pathway for individuals, especially those with complex needs and challenging presentations, which the significant majority of those who remain in custody have. However, it is important to note that the case reviews are not a ticket to release but an absolutely key step to help practitioners home in on the best course of action to enable that individual to take progressive steps.
The department considers it impressive that almost every post-tariff unreleased IPP prisoner currently in prison has now received such a case review. The initiative has delivered well; between July 2016 and April 2022, 1,877 thorough reviews were completed, with many individuals going on from this platform to complete the work required to secure their next progressive step. In fact, 552 prisoners in this cohort have subsequently been released and a further 537 secured a progressive move to open conditions. It is clear that these reviews have, in conjunction with prison and community offender managers, led to improved individual pathways to progression, notwithstanding the fact that many are still struggling to progress due to their challenging behaviour, complex needs and the risks that they pose. Such cases are revisited through an update to the original case review and further multidisciplinary discussions of next steps.
Another key success of the action plan is the planning and implementation of three specialist progression regimes, which brings the total of such regimes to four. They collectively offer 385 places. These regimes, at His Majesty’s Prisons Warren Hill, Erlestoke, Humber and Buckley Hall, operate in closed, adult male prisons and provide opportunities for prisoners to gain a fuller understanding of their risks and problematic behaviours, and support to address them. Progression regimes aim to reintroduce the responsibilities, tasks and routines associated with daily life in the community, to test prisoners’ readiness to respond appropriately to trust where it is placed in them, and to encourage the active pursuit of activities and relationships that support rehabilitation. The system and the Government are conscious of the pressures posed on persons who have spent a long time incarcerated on returning to ordinary life. Although not all IPP prisoners would be ready to move to a progression regime due to the unique regime offering increased freedoms and responsibilities, it has proved an important opportunity for many to secure future release, and will be for many more who arrive there in the future.
Also worthy of note is the delivery of the IPP progression panels initiative, led by the probation service, which supports progression for those serving the IPP sentence in prison and in the community. These panels offer a multidisciplinary approach to risk management and progression, enabling cases which may have stalled to be put back on the right progression pathway. The panels are informed by the psychology services’ case reviews and are an important part of the wider toolkit to improve progression of IPP offenders. These are used prior to release but mainly following release to enable the effective management of individuals while on licence in the community. To date, over 6,600 IPP progression panels have been held across community and custodial settings.
The final success that I would like to highlight today to your Lordships is the addition to the Police, Crime, Sentencing and Courts Act earlier this year which requires the Secretary of State to automatically refer every eligible IPP offender to the Parole Board for consideration of licence termination. This takes effect once 10 years have elapsed since their first release and then annually thereafter. I note that this period is one which is challenged by the report of the Joint Select Committee, and the department looks forward to engaging with that matter in due course. This is something that your Lordships’ House certainly played an important part in delivering.
I join others in acknowledging the work and approach of the noble Lord, Lord Blunkett, in relation to consideration of the impact, value and merit of the IPP sentence. I think it was my noble and learned friend Lord Garnier, in particular, who made mention of that, but others did as well.
This amendment built further on what was previously delivered through the IPP action plan, which was to amend policy to seek proactively to ensure all eligible cases for licence termination made application to the Parole Board. Every eligible case will be considered by the Parole Board and, where successful, will lead to the IPP licence, and IPP sentence as a whole, being brought to a definitive end.
I am aware that many of your Lordships considered that this change did not go far enough and have pushed for a reduction on the period before individuals are eligible for consideration to have their IPP licences terminated. That featured, as I say, in the recommendations of the Joint Select Committee, although its primary recommendation has sought to go much further: to set up a time-limited expert committee, as your Lordships have heard, to advise on the practical implementation of a resentencing exercise, which the Lord Chancellor and Secretary of State for Justice could then consider. As stated previously, all recommendations within the report will be considered thoroughly. However, I am unable to comment on the Government’s views on the report’s recommendations until that formal response is available.
Although the successes coming from the IPP action plan, which I have sought to outline, are certainly encouraging, it is crucial at the same time to recognise the enormous challenges faced in working with this cohort to best effect, and the challenges that a refreshed IPP action plan will need to tackle. As the number of IPP prisoners who have never been released continues to decrease, the proportion of those who remain in prison who committed more serious offences and whose cases are particularly complex continues to grow. These prisoners, when not being released by the Parole Board, are still assessed to pose a high risk of committing further violent or sexual offences. These risks and associated behaviours must be addressed, and that has to be kept in mind when we consider IPP sentences because there is a risk-management component involved in that. It is not a simple task.
The Government’s priority continues to be to protect the public, but we remain committed fully to doing all that we can to support the safe progression of those serving IPP sentences.
Lord Moylan (Con)
My Lords, at the risk of prolonging my noble friend’s speech—I sense that he might be sitting down shortly—what can he say in response to my question about what he will do to secure a meeting with the families and the Secretary of State on 19 October, or as soon after that as possible?
Lord Stewart of Dirleton (Con)
I can give my noble friend an assurance that there will be engagement with the bodies to which he referred in his submission.
As your Lordships recognise, it is a mark of the health of a society that it extends compassion to victims of crime as well as to those who find themselves in custody as a result of having committed it. The proposals that the Government will bring forward once we have considered the terms of the JSC report will, I hope, assist that and permit people to reform and to enter into society to lead as full and useful a life as they may.
Times Education Commission Report
(2 years, 1 month ago)
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Lord Lexden
That this House takes note of the report of the Times Education Commission, published on 15 June.
Lord Lexden (Con)
My Lords, I am very glad to introduce and set the scene for this debate on the report of the Times Education Commission, which was published in June, attracting a good deal of praise, not least from former Secretaries of State for Education of both main political parties. That was an indication of the widespread consensus in its favour that the report evoked. I should mention at the outset that in the last few days the Royal Society has sent me its endorsement of the report’s key findings. That august body stresses that Britain needs an education system that acknowledges
“the value of academic study, technical training and career pathways.”
The commission had 22 very distinguished members, including four who sit in your Lordships’ House, and it is good to see one of them, the noble Lord, Lord Rees of Ludlow, in his place today. It was chaired by the well-known Times columnist, Rachel Sylvester, noted for her acute assessments of political life. Her deputy chairman was Sir Anthony Seldon, a prolific historian who has long been prominent in the world of education. Their colleagues were all leading figures in the fields of business, science, the arts, politics and of course education itself. They worked intensively for over a year. They have produced a unanimous report—no mean feat in an area of policy where controversy thrives.
In the report, the commission makes 45 recommendations, all designed to equip our country with an education system fit for the 21st century. No one who reads the report can fail to be struck by the success with which the commission has carried out its work. Its conclusions and recommendations deserve the most careful consideration by the Government, the political parties and the country at large, particularly by the people with the closest interest in the proposals: families, teachers, employers and, of course, students—the working population of tomorrow.
The report charts a clear course of action, not for the replacement of the existing education system but for its evolution to secure the improvements that, in the commission’s view, are needed if Britain is to thrive in this century. Economic policy alone, even when successfully constructed, can never ensure a nation’s prosperity. Conservatives in particular should recall the words of Disraeli:
“Upon the education of the people of this country the fate of this country depends.”—[Official Report, Commons, 15/6/1874; col. 1618.]
In my experience, it is always a good idea to quote Disraeli in the presence of my noble friend Lord Baker of Dorking; he is temporarily absent from his place, but I know that my noble friend Lord Willetts has a considerable interest in Disraeli as well. Disraeli’s simple truth can be easily obscured by the many other issues that clamour for attention day by day in political debate.
A little belatedly, I must declare my interest as president of the Independent Schools Association. Its members, nearly 600 strong, are small in size, diverse in character and successful in performance—not just academically but in wider terms, such as involvement in their local communities, to which the commission’s report rightly attaches great importance. They are totally ignored by the national media, which skews the perception of the independent sector as a whole as if it consisted only of big, expensive institutions. This large group of small schools forms part of a wider organisation, the Independent Schools Council, which has some 1,300 members that it accredits and represents.
The report treats independent schools with the same critical rigour that it brings to bear on other elements of the education system. It calls for
“much greater collaboration between state and independent schools”
and states:
“Many more private schools should join multi-academy trusts, sharing assets and expertise across the group”.
There is indeed no better way of drawing the two education sectors more closely together, wherever feasible. But there is great merit too in partnership schemes between schools in the two sectors, through which teachers and pupils work together as colleagues to their mutual benefit. Today, such partnership schemes are flourishing in their thousands across the country.
The inclusion in the report of wise comment about independent schools, a small component of the system as a whole, is an indication of the report’s comprehensive character. In this respect it is, I think, unprecedented. There have been reports and government papers galore on schools, universities and other individual parts of the system. Here we are given the carefully considered recommendations of a panel of experts on the system as a whole, from early years through to lifelong learning. It is the range of this report that gives it such significance and stature.
The commission has devised a bold 12-point plan, which would carry its recommendations into effect. At the very centre stands its proposal for a British baccalaureate. It would offer broader academic and vocational qualifications at the age of 18, with parity of funding for pupils in both routes, so students would be able to gain high-quality qualifications in a wider range of subjects and disciplines, as in other advanced countries. Time and again, across the House we have called for an end to the decline of sport, drama, music and other creative subjects in our schools. The commission’s plan would bring them back to the heart of education where they belong.
A YouGov poll carried out for the commission found that 72% of parents were in favour of
“all schools receiving extra government funding to provide additional extracurricular activities like sport, drama, music, debating or dance.”
For me, and for many others across the House, music has a particular importance. Its neglect over recent years would, I know, have once again stirred impassioned comment from my noble friend Lord Black of Brentwood, chairman of the Royal College of Music, if ill health had not prevented him taking part in this debate.
It is an area in which the gap between independent and state schools tends to be particularly wide. Many independent schools are trying to help close it by working in partnership with their state sector colleagues. But it is the kind of approach that the commission’s plan embodies that could help bring the glories of music to our young people throughout the country. Above all, the commission’s plan makes provision for both knowledge and skills. Are both not required in our fast-changing economy?
I will not go through the plan point by point; noble Lords will have studied it and formed views about it. This debate provides an opportunity to consider them. But what should happen after our debate? The Government should, of course, give the report careful consideration as they continue to review their Schools Bill, a measure strongly criticised across this House on a number of specific grounds, and more widely for its lack of ambition and vision.
But we need to look beyond this particular Government. If a report like this had appeared when I was in the Conservative Research Department years ago, I would have said at once, “This is manifesto territory”. It used always to be the case that policy groups, serviced by the Conservative Research Department and drawing on the work of outside experts, were set up to prepare the ground for election manifestos. This has not happened in recent years in the Conservative Party. I suggest that now is the time to revive the practice, with a Conservative education policy group, stimulated by this report, leading the way. Who better to chair such a group than my noble friend Lord Willetts, an authority on education and on conservatism, whose features and character so badly need restating today?
The quality of government suffers if party election manifestos are not based on detailed, serious policy work conducted within the parties themselves. We have seen some of the ill effects of the absence of such work in certain policies of the Conservative Party over recent years. It simply will not do for a Conservative election manifesto to be cobbled together by one or two people at the last moment, with contents that take the party as a whole almost entirely by surprise. Should not renewed policy work within parties seek as much consensus as possible between them? Do we really want education to be a fierce party-political battleground? Is that in the national interest?
When I referred to the report of the Times Education Commission in the House in June, my noble friend Lord Cormack, who unfortunately cannot be in his place, quoted those well-known words from the Book of Proverbs:
“Where there is no vision, the people perish”.
The report of the Times Education Commission sets out both a vision and the means of achieving it. In the words of the report,
“Education should combine skills and knowledge; character and qualifications; oracy and literacy; emotional as well as intellectual understanding.”
Is this not the kind of system that a successful Britain needs? I beg to move.
Lord Knight of Weymouth (Lab)
My Lords, it is a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Lexden. I applaud him for securing the debate and for his introduction. I declare my education interests in the register, particularly my interest as a co-owner of Suklaa, which has a number of education clients. I am also a board member of Century Tech and an adviser to Nord Anglia Education, and I chair the E-ACT multi-academy trust, among other things.
In my view, there can never be a more important time for us to thoroughly re-examine education and what we are doing with our school system in particular. This is a time when the brittleness of our resilience is being tested—the resilience of the planet, the economy and our political system. A lot of change is going on, and it would be easy to find ourselves with an absence of hope. There is one public service that is about the future: education. When we talk about a national education service in our policy conversations, in many ways our vision is for a national hope service.
I hugely applaud the Times for making the decision to resource and commission this really thorough and excellent piece of work. I pay tribute to the four Members of your Lordships’ House who served on that commission. I look forward to the contribution from the noble Lord, Lord Rees, and it is good to see the noble Lord, Lord Johnson, in his place listening to the debate. I was also pleased to see that the chair of the Select Committee, Robert Halfon from the other place, was part of this commission.
We should take this really seriously, in part because the commission makes the case for change in education compelling. This country’s school system is high-stakes, with a high level testing and accountability. According to the commission’s report, we have the highest amount of testing of children anywhere in the developed world. We have great professionals working in our schools and, by and large, we have really good schools. We have a system that, in many cases and in many ways, is working really well for the purpose for which it was designed.
Unfortunately, I disagree with that purpose in the current context, because it appears that the system was designed to filter children. It was built during an age of an industrial economy, where swathes of people could leave education without much in the way of qualifications or skills but could still get reasonably rewarding work in factories or by marrying people working in factories. Because we largely now have norm-referenced examinations in our public examination system—we are talking about Ofqual tightening up the grade boundaries again next summer—large numbers of children will fail; that is how the system is designed. Of course, those children most likely to fail in such a system are those born to disadvantage. That is not fair.
I believe in education as something that lifts people up and releases the talents of all children. Having a school system in this country that is obsessed with the academic while neglecting the social, emotional and physical literacy of our children does not serve our nation well. Those who get left behind by the system become a burden on us as taxpayers, because we do not have an economy that is designed to pick up the slack in a modern labour market where people without higher levels of education will struggle to prosper and to get work.
We have some peculiarities in our system: it is remarkably broad within the academic context up to the age of 16, and then it narrows massively between the ages of 16 and 19 with A-levels, for those who pursue that route. This is because, in the end, it is a filtering system for universities. It serves that system pretty well, but it does not serve the rest. We retain a snobbery about the vocational route. I am pleased that the noble Lord, Lord Baker, is in his place and, as ever, look forward with great enthusiasm to his contribution. The work he has done on university technical colleges as institutions for 14 to 19 year-olds and trying to break down that snobbishness about the vocational route is to be applauded. Not everyone has been successful in this regard but plenty have, and he has been hampered in his efforts by a system that is not really designed to work with enrolment at 14. This means that he has a disproportionate number of young people coming to UTCs who have not enjoyed success in education, and his institutions then have to deal with them.
I hear complaints every week from employers that our education system is not producing an output that they need. They have to train too many people as they join the workforce in quite basic things, because we are bringing up children with an ingrained fear of failure. If you are in the current work situation, where we need creative, collaborative and problem-solving workers, you have to learn to fail successfully by learning from those failures in order to progress—yet we do not nurture that culture. I hear the same from young people and from parents: that they are impatient to see our education system significantly change.
At its harshest we have those with special educational needs and disabilities on education, health and care plans. We have 4% of our pupil population on EHCPs and, statistically, only 4% of those on an EHCP will get a job. What a waste of talent in our school system that we indulge. I can also talk about the mental health crisis. Within E-ACT, we are responsible for educating 18,000 children. Statistically, 3,000 of those are likely to self-harm during their school career. We have profound problems that we should be talking about, and this commission report and this debate from the noble Lord, Lord Lexden, is our opportunity.
What of the prescription from the commission? We have been waiting for the British baccalaureate for a long time. One of the biggest regrets of those of us who were involved in education during the Blair/Brown years was our failure to adopt the Tomlinson proposals around a post-16 baccalaureate. That was a profound mistake. It is notable that, among the people who have endorsed the commission’s findings are former Prime Ministers Tony Blair and John Major. I also noted that, during the recent Conservative leadership contest, the losing candidate, Rishi Sunak, also advocated something similar to a British baccalaureate. I would hope that, as parties think about this proposal for a much broader post-16 offer that mirrors those of successful economies around the world, they will also want to see things like maths continuing all the way through until 18; again, that is something that we see around the world.
I hugely applaud the commission advocating a significant rebalancing of funding towards the early years. I also applaud what it says around a strategic embedded use of technology, particularly at a time of teacher shortage. It is really important to magnify the impact of great teachers using technology. I applaud very much the sense that our higher education institutions should partner more with further education institutions, so that they can extend their reach into parts that, geographically, they struggle to get to. The notion of electives around access to the creative subjects and to citizenship activity is to be commended. A national well-being survey on an annual basis is of course also to be welcomed.
In many ways, the prescriptions, or the 12-point plan, that the commission report produces—most of which is hard to argue with—should be the stimulant for the debate. The final point in that 12-point plan is a 15-year strategy for education. In a political setting, it is quite unpopular to talk about taking education out of politics; there will be certain things that will just always need to be there, such as funding. The biggest issue facing us at the moment as a multi-academy trust is how on earth we are going to keep the doors open and stay financially solvent if the inflationary pressures coming through the system are not met by some kind of funding for education. Funding will always be a political issue; whether we are successfully recruiting enough teachers of a high enough quality will always be a political issue. But I applaud the notion that, across parties—perhaps this Chamber is a great place to start—we could develop some longer-term consensus on what sort of education we want. Ultimately, I want a system in which every child can thrive, with a diverse curriculum offer and diversity of provision that maximises the opportunity of technology to be able to link institutions and to link learners across the country and the world. It should be a system where every child feels safe and loved and where every child learns to care for themselves, for others and for their natural environment—both for the present and for their future.
Lord Shipley (LD)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Lexden, for enabling us to have this debate and the Times Education Commission for its very thoughtful analysis and its clear conclusions and recommendations. Some of those recommendations are similar to those reached by other recent reports, some are new and some require further discussion, but all of them share a concern to improve educational outcomes for all our young people.
I was privileged to chair the Select Committee on Youth Unemployment last year. We reported in November, almost a year ago. I just say in passing that we still await the allocation of time to debate that report on the Floor of this Chamber. I am not sure why it takes quite so long for Select Committee reports to be discussed, for ours is not the only one in this position.
I spent most of my professional career with the Open University, so I was pleased to read in the commission’s report its commitment to lifelong learning. As the report says:
“The idea that education is something that stops at 18 or 21 is increasingly at odds with the reality of a rapidly changing world.”
However, I ask the Minister if the Government can say anything more about the lifelong loan entitlement: it would be very helpful to know. I understand that it was confirmed last week at the Conservative Party conference that it remains government policy to launch it in 2025, but it is now many months since the skills Act passed this House, so it remains to be seen how much of an impetus to lifelong learning it will be.
In the context of lifelong learning, the commission’s call for the creation of new university campuses in higher education cold spots seems a very promising proposal, but of course flexible higher education will be crucial to delivering this, given the geographical scale across the country of 50 or so such centres. That is because flexible higher education tends to have a higher entry rate into higher education cold spots outside large cities, because there is inevitably limited face-to-face provision there. The option of supported distance learning is also very time effective and cost effective for students in remoter rural areas.
One of the objectives of our Select Committee on Youth Unemployment was to consider the impact of the Covid pandemic on young people, so it is very useful to see the publication just this morning of a landmark study involving longitudinal analysis undertaken by the UCL Centre for Education Policy and Equalising Opportunities, the UCL Centre for Longitudinal Studies and the Sutton Trust. It is, I understand, the largest study of its kind into the impacts of the pandemic on young people’s life chances. The report says that the majority of students say that their academic progress has suffered and that their future plans have changed due to the pandemic. Eighty per cent of young people say that their academic progress has suffered as a result of the pandemic. Importantly, state school pupils are more than twice as likely to feel that they have fallen behind their classmates than independent school pupils. Nearly half—45% of all pupils—do not believe they have been able to catch up with lost learning; almost half of young people have accessed no catch-up education; and a large majority have not accessed tutoring.
There are many other pieces of evidence in the report that merit further study, but I want to repeat the conclusions reached by Sir Peter Lampl, chair of the Sutton Trust and of the Education Endowment Foundation, who said today:
“These findings show that far more needs to be done for young people. While all young people have been affected by the pandemic, there is clear evidence that students from less well-off households have been impacted most. Funding provided so far for catch-up has been a drop in the ocean. It’s less than a third of what is required and it’s at a level three times lower per person than in the US. The government’s education recovery plan must be much more ambitious, or we will blight the life chances of a whole generation.”
That is clearly a very important point.
The noble Lord, Lord Lexden, made mention of the Royal Society response to the Times Education Commission, and I agree with him that its conclusions are very important. The Royal Society talked of a narrowing path to success in the 16 to 19 curriculum breadth and employment outcomes, and the importance of reviewing the school education system, including exploring how a broader education up to age 18 should be undertaken to provide the skills to drive sustainable growth founded on increased productivity. The Youth Unemployment Select Committee reached similar conclusions:
“The Government must recalibrate the compulsory components of the national curriculum, taking into account its capacity to equip young people with essential knowledge and the technical, cultural, creative and professional skills the economy demands. Skills development and the tackling of skills shortages should be central to curriculum development … This would not involve removing key subjects, but rather refocusing on those that are essential to a good education, increasing school autonomy and facilitating the development of a broad range of skills.”
These are clearly very important issues.
The Royal Society talked of the need for a mathematical futures programme, since it has been estimated that at least one in four economically active adults is functionally innumerate. The Royal Society also says that there should be an acceleration in science teaching to give young people the world-leading science education that they deserve. In my view, these are crucial proposals if the Government’s growth agenda is to be fulfilled.
On investment in people, I draw your Lordships’ attention to a report published in July by the Prince’s Trust and the Learning and Work Institute, supported by HSBC UK, entitled The Power of Potential. The report finds that
“there are almost half a million NEET young people”—
that is, not in education, employment or training—
“who are able to and want to work”,
and with the right support, could help to fill the record number of vacancies we have. Many young people with mental and physical health problems and caring responsibilities are keen to find work despite these challenges. Of those NEET young people polled, more than eight in 10 said that they had employment or career aspirations within the next three to five years. The question, as our Select Committee addressed, is what will change to ensure that we do not waste the talent of so many of our young people. Nearly 10% are NEET. That figure is far too high, and it is for the Government now to move ahead, given all the evidence they have.
Some of the conclusions of the commission are very important, and some are similar to our work on youth unemployment. On the question of an electives premium for all schools to be spent on activities including drama, music, dance and sport, we had similar conclusions in relation to digital skills, design and technology, and creative skills, which are extremely important given the apparent decline in provision in our schools in recent years.
The commission also proposed setting up a new cadre of elite technical and vocational sixth forms with close links to industry, to be known as career academies. I find this a most interesting proposal, which would require further discussion, but I think we need to consider what it means in the context of current provision—I am thinking of university technical colleges and the T-level curriculum. The commission also recommends providing a laptop or tablet for every child, which our committee concurred with.
The commission says that there should be a counsellor in every school and an annual well-being survey of pupils. I concur with that and would add careers advice to it, specifically how important it is, particularly for those students leaving school, to continue to have one-to-one advisory support for what they are doing to develop their careers.
The commission wants to reform Ofsted so that it works collaboratively with schools. I agree, and our committee said that:
“The Government must also recalibrate progress indicators so that schools wishing to focus on practical, technical, cultural, business- and work-related skills alongside core subjects are able to do so without being downgraded on Government performance measures.”
Research from UCAS has found that two in five students believed that more information and advice would have led them to make better choices. It also found that one in three applicants first start thinking about higher education at primary school, but that disadvantaged students were more likely to consider HE at a later stage than their peers, which we know can limit choices. Additionally, it says that, despite the Baker clause, it found that one in three students reported not receiving any information about apprenticeships from their school. UCAS has made significant financial investment to ensure that its services for would-be apprentices are as strong as they are for potential undergraduates. It says its ambition is to act as a digital Baker clause to ensure that everyone, regardless of background or location, gets independent, high-quality advice on all the choices available to them. I commend all of that.
This debate is about the Times Education Commission report entitled Bringing Out the Best. The Select Committee on youth unemployment that I chaired was called Skills for Every Young Person. With skills, we will bring out the best in all our young people.
Lord Baker of Dorking (Con)
My Lords, first I would like to thank my noble friend Lord Lexden and congratulate him on creating the opportunity to debate the curriculum and assessment in our schools. In his work for the Tory party over many years, he has always taken a great interest in what we say about education in our manifestos—and there is a great job to be done on that in our next manifesto.
We do not often speak about education here in the Lords. This happens to be the first three-hour debate to discuss the curriculum and assessment since 2010, and yet we have in our House a great number of people who know a great deal about education at all stages—primary, secondary and universities. We really ought to find more opportunities to debate education.
The Boris Johnson Government was not a listening Government—they just went ahead. We do not know yet whether the new Government under Liz Truss are listening or not. The one thing we do know about her Government is that they have one overwhelming object, which is economic growth. She hopes that this can be achieved simply by cutting taxes and changing supply matters. She will soon find out that they might be helpful but they are not of themselves assurances of economic growth. In the week that she said this, she also announced that the number of job vacancies in our country was 1.3 million. That is a skills gap of 1.3 million people who cannot be employed by industries that are expected to grow—the skills gap is there. I tried to find a speech in the last 12 years from any Secretary of State or any Education Minister about how they proposed to fill the skills gap. I could not find one. In fact, in 2016, the body that measured the skills gap was abolished. We now have an enormous skills gap.
Why do we have that? The reason is that Michael Gove, who did know a great deal about education, imposed his own idea of a curriculum on our system, namely eight academic subjects. He was implementing the theory of an American educationalist called Hirsch who said that if you give the most disadvantaged children access to academic subjects, it will transform their lives. We have been the testbed for that theory for 12 years and it has totally failed. The number of disadvantaged children today is exactly the same as it was in 2010. That is the indictment of Conservative education policy for the last 12 years, so we need a new curriculum.
What has happened as a result? Design technology has been virtually eliminated from schools at age 11 to 16. Cultural subjects, which are now very much in demand because of streaming and Netflix, have fallen by 40%, 50% and 60%. We are not going to get much economic growth from this curriculum, if it lasts much longer.
If you want evidence, do not just listen to me. Chapter 3 on the curriculum and chapter 4 on assessment are the best chapters of the report we are talking about. Chapter 3 says that James Dyson, the greatest engineer in the country, commented to the commission that it was an “economic disaster” that design technology has been excluded from the curriculum. I beg the Government to listen to people such as James Dyson. If they do not think that that is convincing enough, they should listen to Kate Bingham, the lady who ran the vaccination procurement programme so successfully. Chapter 3 cites her saying that if she had a magic wand, she would wave it and create significant practical and technical education in all our schools. A growing number of people are saying this.
Since I have been promoting technical colleges, I have had to deal with eight different Secretaries of State. I tried to meet them all, but two were there for such a short time that they did not have any meetings at all. Of the six I met, not one was a real educationalist, apart from Michael Gove. The others had very little knowledge of education apart from their own school experience. Certainly, apart from Gove, they did not produce any original ideas on education in that period. None of them is remembered for introducing anything novel or interesting. For the last 12 years, our education system has been run by the department; the Ministers have had very little influence on it. I hope that might change.
This report is not the only report to be issued recently. The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, just spoke. In November, our Select Committee produced the report Skills for Every Young Person. The noble Lord, Lord Storey, was also on the committee. The report has about 100 different suggestions. I am told that the draft response prepared by the last Government was going to accept not one. We recommended that the curriculum should be changed fundamentally and that it should be reduced from eight to five subjects—English, maths, two sciences and data skills—and that every school should then choose which others it wants, with a much wider range of subjects including engineering, business studies and particularly the cultural subjects.
It is extraordinary that cultural subjects such as the performing arts, drama and dance have fallen by 40% or 50% at the very time when Netflix and streaming services are expanding rapidly. We are building new film studios in Britain and will eventually produce more films than Hollywood. I am very glad that eight of the university technical colleges I have been promoting now focus on the entertainment industry. We have one at Elstree, next to the film studio, one at Pinewood, and one in Salford Quays, where the television industry is. They are training youngsters in not only the techniques and machinery but the performing arts themselves. This is the sort of education we need in our country.
If the Times Education Commission report was the third report, the fourth was from the Institute for Fiscal Studies. It said that there has been no change in the school disadvantage gap over the last 12 years. Schools are no longer the agents of social mobility. This is perfectly true. You still have that huge number, the forgotten third, who are not benefiting at all from social mobility.
The fifth one was the Institute for Government on the exam question, again advocating a change and moving away from GCSEs and A-levels.
The sixth, which is very interesting, which Labour Party members, I suppose, have read—or some in the Labour Party, because it is by Tony Blair—is called Ending the Big Squeeze on Skills: How to Futureproof Education in England. This is a very well researched and very good report and I hope that the Front Bench of the Labour Party will find a way of debating it in this House. It has some very interesting suggestions.
One idea that goes back to the very first report was from the high mistress of St Paul’s School way back last October. She asked 800 people, mainly teachers, what they wanted. Half were from the public sector, half from the private sector. They all wanted a change in the curriculum. They wanted it to be more creative and more imaginative, developing curiosity, innovation and inventiveness.
The report from Blair says much the same. There should be a commission set up immediately to examine the curriculum and the need for changes to it and to assessment. It is a very commendable report. It is quite substantial.
There is huge volume of opinion now—the noble Lord, Lord Knight of Weymouth, said exactly the same thing—thinking and talking about education in a very creative way and wanting a change. We have to make the curriculum suited to this age of digital and net zero. We are miles away from it.
Take data skills; these ought to be embedded into the curriculum at all ages. They simply are not. Only about 10% of children take GCSE computing science. The other 90% do not do it. In fact, since the other GCSE was abolished in 2016, computing is now taught 40% less than it was in 2016. This cannot be defended by any government Minister. There are now fewer children in our schools being taught anything about computing and data skills than in 2016, when the rest of the world is roaring ahead. The head of Apple, Tim Cook, has said very clearly that every child should be able to code. Very few people code in our country. But coding clubs are starting in primary schools and they will spread. They want to spread completely over the whole country.
I came across one primary school on the borders of Wales that taught computing from the age of five and six. All the teachers were able to code themselves and they taught the children coding. By 14, they could almost take the GCSE exam. But when they went into the secondary schools in that part of Shropshire and Herefordshire, they would go backwards because the schools were not teaching anything in computing. It can be done. The important thing to appreciate is that those young children should be taught how to use the thing which they all have in their pockets, not just for Instagram, Facebook and Twitter but as a source of huge knowledge and expertise. It can be done. That is the first thing I would say.
In any data curriculum, all students should have access to a computer or a tablet. It is great credit to the Government that they have done a lot of that, but it falls short of all at the moment. They did it very largely because the pandemic required distance learning. Every child, even the most disadvantaged, should have that facility—number one.
This is such a serious issue that next September all children starting at 11 or moving into 16 should be taught computing or data skills. That is a very challenging task—I know that—because there is a teacher shortage. Even now as we are talking, if this Government really wanted to make data skills a major priority, they would be saying to all the teacher training colleges you must start now before Christmas to teach data skills and coding.
It is not just coding. Company after company came to our Select Committee and said, “We want 18 year-olds to have employability skills.” We asked, “What do you mean by employability skills?” They said first, “Data skills are absolutely essential.” Then they said, “We want children who have experience of working in teams.” That does not happen for 11 to 18 year-olds: the only teams are in sport, not education. There is no collaborative problem-solving, which is part of life. They also said that they wanted children to have experience of making things with their hands and designing things on computers, but you cannot design something on a computer until you have been taught CADCAM. CADCAM is not even in the T-level digital curriculum, but it is essential and all children should be able to start learning it.
Coding is not the only thing to learn; one must learn the ability to join IT teams, which most industries now have, which means they must have knowledge of artificial intelligence, cybersecurity and virtual reality. These are all happening in industry today but the education system in our country is just not providing them.
In our UTC at City Airport, we have a sixth form using virtual reality—about 100 youngsters, girls as well as boys, sitting with headsets on their heads and designing things with two big screens ahead of them. I think it is the only sixth form in the country doing that; I have not heard of another one. Companies are using virtual reality much more; it will be very important in education, apart from anything else, and it is being used for design purposes in industry. I already mentioned the views of the chief executive of Apple.
It also applies to the green agenda. Our committee was told that there could be 400,000 jobs in 2030 in what is called the green agenda. This concerns not only climate change but electric vehicles, new fossil fuel substitutes—hydrogen and such things—the sustainability of species, and huge changes in agriculture and horticulture. None of that is anywhere that I can find in the school curriculum, with one exception, which I learned from my grandson, who has just started to do his A-levels. He chose geography—rather surprisingly, I thought, because it was thought not to be very important in my time. But geography is now the one area where you can study climate change. He is fanatical on this: at the age of 16, he refused to fly anywhere, which makes for very expensive holidays by railways and so on. Anyway, I learned that from him. Where else is it done?
The green agenda is multidisciplinary. It deals not only with climate change itself but with agriculture, horticulture, hydrogen, and all these other things. We need it built in to the curriculum as soon as possible.
The Government have launched a competition for 15 new schools. They asked for the initial bids in September and will have the full bids by Christmas. Those free schools should be only two types of schools: special schools for children who have special disabilities of one sort or another, of which there is a lack in the country and there should be more; the others should be technical schools. The last thing we want is more ordinary secondary schools.
I am trying to inject into the Government’s thinking a sense of urgency about this, because if we go on with the present curriculum for the next two years we will have virtually no economic growth. It is not helping to fill the skills gap for our country and our industry. There must be changes. We cannot go on as we have—that is a growing feeling in the country.
The schools I have set up over the past 12 years—we now have 45—have 19,000 students and the best destination record of almost any schools in the country. We produce 20% apprenticeships at 18; other schools produce only 6%.
I know that the Whip is waiting for me, but every Minister so far has spoken for less than 14 minutes, so there is a little bargaining to be done, unless he wishes to move that I should be no longer heard. He could always do that if he would like to.
I would also say, if I may, that we also send 55% of our children to universities and 75% of them do STEM subjects. The rest get local jobs, which means that they do not drift away from their towns down to London. We have to take these issues very seriously and bring such influence as we have to bear on the Government to listen to us, to respond and to act.
Lord Watson of Invergowrie (Lab)
My Lords, we are indebted to the noble Lord, Lord Lexden, for facilitating this debate and to the Times for establishing the commission, which has produced such an impressive report. It is fair to say that the report has been widely welcomed, first as a means of shining a light on the problems currently facing the education system, which the commission damningly found to be “failing on every measure”.
Secondly, the report offers a raft of proposals that would help reshape education in this country and guide it to a place where it can not just adapt to the needs of the 21st century but thrive on the challenges that the rapidly changing demands of the economy require.
The noble Lord, Lord Baker, has just said that he felt chapters 3 and 4 of the report were the most important. They certainly contain important recommendations. But, to be frank, almost everything necessary to lay the foundations for the future of education, the future of the economy and, by extension, the future of the country is contained in chapter 2 of the commission’s report, entitled “Social mobility and levelling up”.
I have said to noble Lords before that I dislike the term “social mobility”. It is restrictive because it seems to imply that if just a few people improve their learning and subsequent status, that is progress. To a certain extent, that may well be true, but I prefer the term “social justice”, which casts the net much wider and seeks to make improvements based on raising the standard of living, including education, for everyone in disadvantaged categories.
Chapter 2 concerns early years, with a number of very necessary proposals, not least in the short term bringing the early years pupil premium—currently £302—into line with the primary school rate of £1,345. As with most of the commission’s proposals, this is costed: at £130 million a year it would represent a tiny fraction of the overall DfE budget of around £45 billion.
It is critical that we invest in the early years to avoid costs later in a child’s life. This would have a major impact on children with special educational needs and disabilities. Some young children undoubtedly need more support than others, but to reach them we need high-quality services for all.
The commission’s call for the eight programmes that support childcare being managed by the DfE is certainly laudable, but I believe it is undeliverable. The silo mentality that operates within government departments would never allow that to happen. Too often, the cross-cutting approach on delivery that is essential is lacking, leading to many of the most vulnerable children falling into the gaps between public service provision and in many cases becoming invisible. The complex and disjointed system of services—national and local—often overwhelms the most disadvantaged families, particularly if they have complex needs or a disabled child.
This stems, in part, from significant underfunding, but also results from the failure to use existing resources as effectively as possible. Children and families need services that offer coherent, relevant and familiar support based on local strengths and relationships. There is limited and inconsistent communication and collaboration between different agencies, which means that families often waste time providing them all with the same information. That point was made forcibly by the Public Services Committee of your Lordships’ House in its report of November 2020.
Total public spending on early education is around £5.5 billion, yet costs for families are among the highest in the OECD, according to the Education Policy Institute’s 2020 annual report. Serious concerns have also been raised by the Institute for Fiscal Studies about how we prioritise that spending. It demonstrated that support for low-income workers fell from 45% of total childcare spending in 2007 to just 17% 10 years later.
The Government should fundamentally overhaul the early years funding model and replace it with a new formula that focuses more effectively on the child. That revised funding settlement should prioritise quality of care and access for the most disadvantaged children, and should aim to tackle educational inequalities, to ensure that children are school-ready.
The pandemic has highlighted many of the failings in the education system but, of course, it did not create them. Disadvantaged pupils are now more than 18 months behind their better-off peers at 16 and 40% of that gap is evident when they first arrive at school.
Rethinking our approach to early years education is therefore vital and urgent. I agree with my noble friend Lord Knight that there is much to commend a British baccalaureate, as proposed by the commission in chapter 4—one that mixes academic and vocational qualifications. The UK is an outlier in requiring students to specialise so much at 16. As the report states pungently:
“No other developed country’s teenagers sit as many high-stakes tests as ours do and the focus on academic attainment has unbalanced the system”.
The commission’s report identifies the problems with the current system and notes the concerns about change. Students currently study a narrower range of subjects at A-level than in 2010, which reduces their resilience to fluctuations in future employment needs.
This is a direct consequence of the Government’s obsession with the English baccalaureate, which narrows students’ choices. The Royal Society supports the proposal to broaden education up to the age of 18 and advocates a wider range of study options that would mean more young people could try more subjects for longer, helping them to develop a broader range of skills. The British baccalaureate would be a customised version of the international baccalaureate, which has almost 2 million students around the world—including around 4,500 in this country already. It would cost around £1 billion a year, according to the Institute for Fiscal Studies, but would also remove what it says is an historic anomaly in the funding mechanism that dates to the time when the school-leaving age was 16.
The commission identifies low morale in the teaching profession. After 12 years of Conservative Governments, I am sorry to say that we have a demoralised and underpaid workforce, often overpoliced by Ofsted. The noble Lord, Lord Lexden, referred to Disraeli. Without going quite as far back as that in the mists of time, I am reminded of a quote from a Cabinet Minister more than 100 years ago—not a Labour one, as we were still six years away from that, but a name that may be familiar to noble Lords on the Liberal Democrats Benches: HAL Fisher, then a Liberal MP and president of the Board of Education. He is perhaps best known for formulating the Education Act 1918, which made school attendance compulsory up to the age of 14. He was also responsible for another Act in the same year that introduced pension provision for all teachers. He stated:
“Elementary teachers are miserably paid, and a discontented teaching class is a social danger.”
Today we have discontented teachers. Unlike in 1918, the Government prefer Ofsted accountability to winning the hearts and minds of teachers to help in developing the school system.
To return to the curriculum, in Committee stage on the Schools Bill—whatever became of that, I wonder?—an issue on which I spoke was oracy, which facilitates the development of numeracy and literacy skills. More than 60% of primary school teachers say that they lack confidence in their ability to develop the speech and language skills of their pupils. A new hub system, similar to those in existence for maths and English, would build that confidence and, ultimately, standards of speech and language skills development on a national scale. I hope I might make some progress with the Minister on this, even if it does not find favour with her when the Bill returns to your Lordships’ House.
The final chapter of the Times Education Commission’s report speaks highly of the lifelong loan entitlement, introduced in the Skills and Post-16 Education Act, but key questions remain on the future of the LLE. Can the Minister provide more detail on how it will support adult learners in particular to follow more flexible ways to upskill and reskill? Will it, as suggested in the report and advocated by the Labour Party, include maintenance provision? Will that be available to all learners, regardless of study mode? I raise that point as those studying through part-time distance learning are currently not able to access maintenance support in England.
Another issue on which the Minister might be able to update noble Lords is the minimum eligibility requirements for access to university. That was a policy position advocated two or three Secretaries of State back—although that time covers a mere four months, I think. Can she say whether it will be taken forward by the current Secretary of State? Nothing has been heard since the DfE consultation on higher education reform, which closed in May, and an update is certainly overdue. Can the Minister confirm that the exemption for part-time provision, as proposed in the consultation, will remain if the policy is enacted?
The Open University was founded on the principle of full inclusion and open entry and has been supported by every UK Government since. However, in general these are problematic times for higher education. The Government—at least, the previous one, as we have yet to hear where the latest version stands on these issues—seemed to think that too many young people go on to higher education, and they too often sought confrontation with universities on issues such as the value, in the narrowest sense, of certain types of degrees to society.
We await the Government’s response to the consultation on the reintroduction of student number caps and minimum eligibility requirements, both of which, if introduced, would disproportionately affect those from disadvantaged backgrounds. From the policymaker perspective, widening access and driving forward social justice must be at the heart of what we try to achieve with education reform.
At one point, the Times Education Commission report states that the focus of higher education policy in Britain
“can be more about who is excluded than who is included.”
No Government should allow such an approach, and I pay tribute to the work of the National Education Opportunities Network, which is celebrating its 10th anniversary. It co-ordinates the widening of access to higher education and its success can be measured by the fact that, in 2021-22, almost 80% of entrants to higher education from low-participation neighbourhoods went to NEON-member higher education providers. More encouragement is needed from other providers to encourage young people to be ambitious and not conclude that certain types of study, or certain institutions, are “not for me”.
I do not agree with all the recommendations in the commission’s report—for instance, on the creation of “career academies” and the establishment of satellite university campuses in cold-spot communities. The aims of both are already delivered by further education colleges, which already have an established reach into their communities to promote lifelong learning. Developments along that route would be more profitable and avoid reinventing the wheel. However, the commission deserves much credit for its work, and I hope that the Government will do more than “take note” of the recommendations, which very largely map out a positive route to funding education at all levels to prepare the skills needed for the workforce of the future, while delivering greater social justice.
Lord Addington (LD)
My Lords, we must thank the noble Lord, Lord Lexden, for bringing this report to our attention. I did not read in it anything that I had not heard before, or at least heard discussed, but if you are interested in education and happen to have been in the upper Chamber of the British Parliament, you probably would have heard most of these things, so that is not a big surprise. The interesting thing is that they are brought together here as a whole. It is good to see this in the round, even for someone such as me, who tends, when he looks at education, to cast half an eye over the special educational needs provision—and if the Minister could tell us where that review has got to, I would be jolly grateful, but there might be a bit of a list there.
Before I go on, I should declare my interests. I am a dyslexic who is president of the British Dyslexia Association, and I am a user of assistive technology and chairman of a company that provides assistive technology. I looked at this from the position of special educational needs and thought, “How do I pull it all together around this one area, and how does that affect the other bits of the subject?” This is something where, in this Govian model of passing English and maths, as a dyslexic you think, “Oh, there’s a little conflict there from the start, isn’t there?” People do not actually get that we are thinking, “Well, this is what we’ve got to do, but we’re the group who will do it worse than others—but we can do it, because since some dyslexics do pass.” We then discover that systematic synthetic phonics is a system which does not help dyslexics. Even if a few get through, some do not. Bad short-term memory means that we do not learn well things such as equations in mathematics. One or two people say that dyslexics do not have short-term memories, but only one or two. Therefore, you have a series of conflicts built in there.
This means that you have a group who experience failure early in our system. It is not the only reason people struggle in special educational needs. If you go through the neurodiverse groups, both dyspraxia and dyscalculia are much bigger than we originally thought a few years ago, and there is attention deficit disorder and various levels of functioning in the autism spectrum. And guess what, lucky teacher? They overlap.
When the report says that classroom teachers should be better trained to deal with this, they should, but you need more than a few classroom teachers being taught how to do this. You need a systemic approach with awareness of how to spot and how to back up, and that things will occur and become present at different times. Early years is a very important sector, where we tend to look for autism, especially at the lower-functioning end. It does not pick up those at the higher-functioning end, who will just be a little awkward and cranky, with a few social problems.
The same is true of all of this: you need continuing awareness at different times to pick this up. This means you need to invest, back up and make sure that people are ready. You will then have to deal with people who are failing. As was said by the noble Lord, Lord Baker, the system may not be that friendly to anyone going through it, but these people are going to be that much more disadvantaged.
I will carry on to some other points. If you invest in things that some of these people might be able to do better, such as sport, music, drama and things that give people a chance to succeed, this group will stand a better chance of succeeding here than they would somewhere else. Regular failure reinforces itself. Failure makes sure that people cannot do things, because they know they are going fail. Think of the damage there: this is not just about failing to get on a course because you have not passed an exam; it is about not being able to integrate with anything.
Going back once again to the Govian model and that initial exam, I have spent a long time on the Back Benches of this Chamber saying that identified dyslexics should be allowed to take apprenticeships, if they can use assistive technology for English, without having to pass an English exam. That was an incredible experience. I forget who it was who said that the system had been run by officials in the department, who could not quite get that somebody could fail or that it was difficult. Ministers did; Ministers agreed with me, then disappeared and came back saying, “This is awfully difficult.” Eventually, the noble Lord, Lord Nash, took on the department and let us win that battle, at least in principle. He deserves eternal credit for that, but life is too short to do it over and again—certainly mine is. I hope that, when the Government look at this and in their replies, they look at ways that mean that people are supported and backed up throughout the systems. They will need backing and even more training-based systems.
What else in this report allows this to happen more easily? The answer is simple: technology. Most ways in which you can support people with educational problems are contained within computers. A few years ago, you had to stick on add-ons to the computer; now, voice recognition and readback is a standard package in just about any computer you can get. Those were the two big things that changed my life about 20 years ago. I hasten to add that they work a lot better now than then, but you still need to be in an environment in which their use is accepted. A classroom has to accept that somebody will produce their work differently. They may need to sit at the back of their class, so that another voice is not on the microphone. If my noble friend Lord Razzall were here, I would tell you in considerable detail what happened when he was sitting behind me and started talking to me when I was making a message in this way; I will leave out the expletives.
We have to learn how to use this and how to structure it, but we have that capacity to make lives a lot easier. Could the noble Baroness, in her reply, give us some idea of the thinking about the use of technology in normal, mainstream classrooms, if we are going to start coding, et cetera? This can help; it is a tool that will touch everyone’s lives.
Nobody has ever challenged me seriously about one idea: no one cares whether the document they are reading was word-processed by somebody talking or somebody tapping a keyboard. If they have, I have not met them. Think about it: it is a written document in front of you. You do not care. You might think that the punctuation or grammar is a little more like spoken than written English, but you can teach that. You can change it. It is that readily available.
Are we going to make sure that these groups outside can actually access the rest of the system, and these basic components, by using the technology? We have to have environments in which people can succeed, and we will make it that much easier if we take this step forward. Teachers have to be trained to spot and encourage people to use this correctly. But it is all there.
The waste in human population that this avoids is massive. The amount of extra time taken by the tiger parent to fight to get their child through will be reduced, such that everybody has an easier life. For the person who does not have the tiger parent who expects them to pass exams, maybe we can get teachers saying, “By the way, you can do it: this is the way.” It would be a major change.
This is not the whole story, but it would make the rest of the story easier for not only those teaching but a large part of the population. If we can integrate this, it means that people can be better employed later on. Knowledge of a subject and the use of technology opens up the world to a whole section of society which was restricted. I hope that we can do this, but what will get in the way—and has got in the way in the past—is an over-adherence to a very seriously academic curriculum, where other levels of success and types of creativity are frowned upon.
I do not know whether the Minister will wholly embrace everything that I have said. When she replies, some idea of what we are doing about the special education needs review would be very helpful—I am sure that not everything I am saying here is alien to the Government, and I hope not, because half of it has been taken from policy documents that they have produced over the years—so we can actually get some idea of where we are going. Because if you can allow people to access and thrive—and it will not just be these groups but people who are just slightly worse at spelling, or take it on later on or do not get the environment at home—you will actually allow people in.
I think it was the noble Lord, Lord Knight, who said at the start of this debate that we have a system now which is designed such that the ideal person is somebody who passes their Oxbridge exam first time and sits down at the age of about 17. There are only a few people who are ever going to do that. So let us make sure we can expand to the rest of them, so that they have reasonable chance of succeeding, and having a meaningful and happy life afterwards. You can always struggle around, and have the brilliant and the lucky get through, but those are not odds that I like.
Lord Rees of Ludlow (CB)
My Lords, we should thank the noble Lord, Lord Lexden, for instigating this debate. I was privileged to be one of the Times Commissioners, and the report’s thoroughness and readability are owed especially to two people: Rachel Sylvester and Sir Anthony Seldon. The most moving and disturbing section for me was the evidence of the tragic backwardness of deprived five year-olds entering reception classes. Until this is remedied, equal opportunities really are a sham. There is much wise discussion in the report of the optimum school curriculum and how to use AI to supplement the work of teachers.
Having said that, I will focus my comments on post-16 and university-level education, declaring an interest as a member of Cambridge University. After two years of Covid-induced disruption, we cannot expect full reversion to the old normal, nor should we wish for it. The upheaval should energise reforms to the whole post-18 education sector, which needs more institutional variety and more flexibility in its offerings. There is now more experience of online and remote teaching. We can make a more realistic assessment of the most effective use of contact hours for students. We can also learn from institutions that had already spearheaded that transition pre pandemic; for instance, the fast-expanding Arizona State University.
In more traditional universities, the basic lectures on core topics are given live to audiences of 200-plus. There is no real feedback or discussion during these lectures, although, at least in the better institutions, they are supplemented by smaller classes and tutorial groups. Little would be lost if those big lectures were videoed rather than live. Indeed, they could then be more carefully prepared and achieve higher quality. Moreover, not only could they be watched more than once by the primary student audience; they could be made available globally. There have been successful precedents at MIT and Stanford, and scholars such as Harvard’s Michael Sandel have become international stars.
Universities in the UK should either set up platforms themselves or offer their best material as content for the Open University so that it gets wide dissemination. Whereas the overseas campuses set up by some western universities, mainly in Asia, have been rightly criticised as diluting the brand, the wider viewing of good lectures, even if not part of a course offering online credits, should be reputationally positive for the lecturer’s university in the same way as a widely used textbook authored by a faculty member would be. However, what is needed is that students should be able to choose their preferred balance between online and residential courses and to access distance learning of high quality. We need more facilities for part-time study and lifelong learning, and a blurring of the damaging divide between technical and university education.
Incidentally, purely online courses—the so-called MOOCs—have an ambivalent reputation. As stand-alone courses without complementary contact with a real tutor, they are probably satisfactory only for master’s-level vocational courses intended for motivated mature learners studying part-time, but they can have wider benefits as part of a package that incorporates live tutoring as well.
We need to do more than just incorporate virtual activities into the existing framework, though. The higher and further education system needs much more drastic restructuring. Universities all aspire to rise in the same league table, which gives undue weight to research over teaching. Most of their students are between 18 and 21, undergoing three years of full-time, usually residential, education and studying a curriculum that is too narrow even for the minority who aspire to professional academic careers.
Even worse, the school curriculum is too narrow as well, as we have heard. The long-running campaign for an international baccalaureate-style curriculum for 16 to 18 year-olds deserves to succeed but it needs co-operation from universities, whose entrance requirements now overtly disfavour applicants who straddle science and humanities in their A-levels.
We should abandon the view that the standard three-year full-time degree is the minimum worthwhile goal, or indeed the most appropriate one for many students. The core courses offered by the first two years of university education are often the most valuable, both intellectually and vocationally. Moreover, students who realise that the degree course they have embarked on is not right for them or who have personal hardship should be enabled to leave early with dignity, with a certificate to mark what they have accomplished. They should not be disparaged as wastage. They should make the positive claim, as many Americans would, that “I’ve had two years of college”, while those running universities should not be berated for taking risks in admission and should certainly not be pressured to entice students to stay, least of all by lowering degree standards.
More importantly, everyone should have the opportunity to re-enter higher education, maybe part-time or online, at any stage in their lives. This path could become smoother—indeed, routine—if there were a formalised system of transferable credits across the whole system of further and higher education, as urged in the Augar report. We should strive for a flexible grant or loan system offering entitlement to three years’ support, to be taken à la carte at any stage in life. This would mean, for instance, that those who leave university for any reason after two years are not tainted as wastage, but can get some certificate of credit and an entitlement to return and upgrade later.
Admission to the most demanding and attractive courses is naturally competitive and always will be, but what is not acceptable is that the playing field is still far from level. The killer fact, and the most intractable challenge for the access agenda, is that maybe half of the UK’s young people do not receive the quality of teaching at school that allows them a fair prospect of qualifying for the most competitive university courses. Even those who have been at good schools will be handicapped if, because of the specialisation enforced by A-levels, they unwittingly drop science at 16, for instance, and later realise that they wish to pursue it.
It will be a long slog to ensure that high-quality teaching at school is available across the full geographical and social spectrum, and it may be impossible without a narrowing of the gulf between the resources of the private fee-taking schools and those in the state system. In the meantime, it would send an encouraging signal if the UK universities whose entry bar is dauntingly high, such as Oxbridge, were to reserve a fraction of their places for students who do not come straight from school. They could thereby offer a second chance to those who were disadvantaged at 18 but have caught up by earning two years’ worth of credits at other institutions or online, for instance via the Open University. Such students could then advance to degree level, even on the more challenging courses, in maybe two further years.
Let us hope that the recent crisis catalyses constructive innovations in higher education. This sector is currently one of the UK’s distinctive strengths and crucial to our future, but it must not be sclerotic and unresponsive to changes in needs, lifestyle and opportunities. A rethink is overdue if the UK is to sustain its status in a different world. The Times commission’s report sets the wider context, and it should be welcomed by all those in higher and further education.
Lord Willetts (Con)
My Lords, I join other Members of this House in thanking my noble friend Lord Lexden for convening this debate on a very important report. I should register my interests as chancellor of the University of Leicester, a visiting professor at King’s College London and a director of Thames Holdings. It is an excellent report and I see that two commissioners who contributed to it are here in the Chamber at the moment, which is fantastic.
Although a lot of the debate has focused on specific policy proposals—I will turn to two of them myself—there are reasons other than those why this report is so strong. First, the tone of the report is entirely constructive throughout. It does not say that the problems are because there are terrible people running schools, that the colleges are useless or that universities are irresponsible. It realises that most of the time, most people in education are absolutely doing their best in difficult circumstances. Its tone is to try to work with them to improve the opportunities of young people.
The report is full of humanity, not least in the individual examples of the circumstances that some people have to overcome to benefit from education. It is right to recognise how difficult some young people’s circumstances are. If we ignore them and say that the only measure of performance for a university, college or school is how well its students do, regardless of their circumstances, the effect is to incentivise a university, college or school to select students from most advantaged backgrounds because they are the ones who will do best on the metric that the Government have focused on. That is why it is right to take account of personal circumstances when we measure and assess the performance of educational institutions, whatever their level.
I also like the fact that the report cites proper evidence from a range of sources, from social science to neuroscience—it is evidence-based. Nowadays, if we are to make the case for any kind of change, it has to be done on that basis.
Finally, as several noble Lords have said, the report embraces technology, which is changing the way education is delivered. We heard some excellent examples of what this means for people with dyslexia. It is not necessarily a scandal if some students are accessing some or all of a course online. We do not immediately have to fall back on a campaign to shame the education provider into reverting to the world as it was pre Covid. Sometimes online learning can be very effective and other technologies can enhance learning. There are great examples of innovative technologies in the report, and I hope the Minister will endorse technology as one of the most powerful tools that we have for improving the quality of education.
The report then has a very long list of policy proposals, and I will focus on two. The first area of policy is the curriculum at all stages. I personally have been persuaded by the advocates of the importance of knowing stuff. What Ed Hirsch has said about cultural literacy and what Daisy Christodoulou has said about the importance of memorising and knowing stuff are very persuasive—but they are absolutely not the whole story. What seems to have gone wrong is that those insights have been implemented in a way that has turned too many of our educational institutions into places producing the most appalling Dickensian rote learning, which kills joy and enjoyment of a subject. It is important that young people at school, college or university have an opportunity to do stuff that interests them in a way that then leads them to dig into it more deeply, and therefore to enrich their learning. The idea of some kind of special funding, at a minimum, for electives, so that there is a wide range of opportunities at school, is a great proposal and should be endorsed.
Beyond that, of course, we turn to the future of A-levels and the proposals for a British baccalaureate for 18 year-olds comprising three major subjects and three minors. We have heard a lot about this already and it is an attempt to tackle one of the biggest single problems of our education system. There are quite a few ex-Ministers across this Chamber, and it is striking how, when looking back on our time in office, most of us would, I think, say that a lesson that we concluded by the end of it—some may have recognised it at the beginning—was just how serious a problem early specialisation is in English education. I went to so many meetings where people were planning elaborate PR campaigns to try to get teenage girls more interested in science, for example, and you would say, “Why do we have to do this? Why are we expecting teenagers to take these massive life-shaping decisions at the age of 14, 15 and 16, when no other educational system does?”. We should not have to market physics to a 15 year-old because otherwise they would give it up and not have the opportunity of a serious STEM career; it is absurd that we have got ourselves into that position. I strongly support the proposals for broadening the curriculum.
The full-blown English baccalaureate is very ambitious, and we all know how wary the DfE will be of proposals on that scale. However, there are pragmatic steps that could be taken towards it. Given that this report already includes the idea of some funding for a kind of electives premium, why not introduce a premium of funding for 16 to 18 year-olds who are doing some kind of further maths qualification—it need not be a full-blown A-level—just to keep up with, and try to develop, their numeracy skills? Similarly, something equivalent could be introduced for essay writing and the use of English. UCAS could then be asked to allocate points for prospective students who present with those qualifications, in addition to full-blown A-levels. There must be some steps we could take now towards that full-blown baccalaureate.
As the Minister was reminding us, I sometimes think that the current system is a kind of hourglass model: students do a wide range of GCSEs, then focus down more and more on three A-levels—often in a connected set of disciplines—and then go to universities which are increasingly offering a very broad range of subjects that can be combined in a single university course. In a way, some of the classic university courses, such as natural sciences, are examples of that. I almost dare to mention PPE in this context, which enables students to do a range of subjects that is significantly wider than many A-level options.
We increasingly hear from Ministers—it has been referred to again in today’s debate—of a vision of a lifelong loan entitlement that is driving an agenda of a modular structure for higher education, in which presumably it will be possible to put together different modules in a much wider and combined higher education programme than is currently possible. Could the people working in the DfE on a modular structure for higher education care to have a word with the custodians of the three A-level doctrine for 16 to 18 year-olds and ask them what the basis is for this classic model to be followed by a modular structure of higher education? It seems very hard to understand how the same department could advocate such contrasting doctrines for two different stages of the educational process. If you were designing such a system, you might actually try to envisage it the other way round, to allow students to specialise more gradually, rather than specialising first and then be provided with a broader range of opportunities.
I very much hope that the Minister will be able to indicate just the glimmer of a hint of an interest in possible steps towards some modest form in which 16 to 18 year-olds would be able to study a wider range of subjects. I am not being too ambitious; I am pitching it as modestly as I can.
The other area of policy I want to touch on is higher education and cold spots. It is covered in the report and has been referred to and proposed in an excellent paper from that fantastic, newly reunited team of Tony Blair and the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, who have now become very important co-authors of several education papers.
I confess that, when I was at the Conservative Party conference last week, I spoke at a fringe event which was advertised as organised by the Institute for Global Change. If you looked at it with a magnifying glass, you could see that it was in fact the Tony Blair Institute for Global Change. A bold step was taken and it came and ran an event at the Tory Party conference; a group of us turned up and this was the kind of issue that we talked about.
The Tony Blair 50% target has done quite a lot of damage to the debate, because there are now too many people who think that the reason why more people go into higher education is because Tony Blair dragooned them to go by setting a target for it. We all know that the 50% target was really a political device—I am sure that all of us on both sides of this House have deployed it in the past—where, for the purpose of delivering a speech, he took a trend and changed it into a target. The reason why we have 50% of young people going to university is not because Tony Blair announced it at a Labour conference one year but because lots of young people want to go to university. There is overwhelming evidence from all advanced western countries that the number of people wanting to go into higher education is rising; it has gone through 50% and is now higher than that. This is a social trend, not a Blairite target.
It is a desirable social trend, and we must base policy on a recognition that the combination of that aspiration, demographic change and increasing opportunities for young people from disadvantaged backgrounds to participate in higher education means that, over the next few years, we will see even more people wanting to go into higher education. Either that will mean that our existing number of universities just gets bigger and bigger—which may be one way forward; I would not rule it out—or it is an opportunity to create some new higher education institutions in the same way as has happened in the past when higher education participation has grown. They could be—I look across at the noble Lord, Lord Watson, who was sceptical about this—further education colleges delivering more higher education provision, perhaps with the opportunity in the long run of achieving a university title if that is what they wished.
What I find shocking and frustrating is that, at the moment, we do not have any kind of debate across government and public policy about how we would deliver that provision and what the opportunity is for creating new higher education institutions in towns that do not currently have a university or higher education institution. I suspect that, when they look back on us in 10 years’ time, the historians will ask why, when this entirely predictable trend was beginning to surge through the system, there was so little debate about what kind of provision should be developed as an opportunity to meet that surge in demand.
I very much look forward to what the Minister is going to say. I hope that, in her response to the debate, she will engage with the large number of us from all sides of the Chamber who have pleaded for a broader English educational curriculum and a broader range of opportunities for 16 to 18 year-olds, and will accept as a matter of fact that we are in an environment where the number of people going to university will carry on rising. We all have a responsibility to plan for that and, indeed, turn it into an opportunity for better and more diverse provision.
Lord Davies of Brixton (Lab)
My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Lexden, for promoting this debate and the Times group for promoting the commission. It has drawn on an impressive array of talent, experience and knowledge and, as has been mentioned, the tone of the report is one in which we can all seek value. The commission’s proposal for a national conversation and a long-term strategy for education is very welcome, so long as those who work in schools and colleges have a central role in the process.
This has not been a party-political debate, but it is worth pointing out that—the Minister may wish to respond to this—for anyone reading the report, it is clear that it is another indicator of the gap between what the Government are doing and what we all agree needs to be done. The Minister will perhaps tell us what positive steps will be taken to move towards the general agreement about what can be achieved. I have to admit that I am not absolutely sure what the gap is between the recommendations in the report and what the Labour Party will do when it comes to power, but that is perhaps a separate issue.
I wish to highlight a few issues from the report. I think we are all agreed, everyone is clear, that investing in early years is the most important thing we can do. The report recommends
“A significant boost to early years funding targeted at the most vulnerable and a unique pupil number from birth, to level the playing field before children get to school.”
Everyone is agreed; everyone knows that; we just have to start moving towards it.
An expanded Ofsted—a replacement, if we want to use that word—is also to be welcomed: a fundamental reassessment of its role, so that it is there not to promote league tables but to provide practical assistance for schools in delivering their service. There is general agreement, again, on rethinking our exams system. I sometimes feel we are a bit imprisoned by the use of the word “baccalaureate”, because it means different things to different people, but I think the report is clear about what it has in mind in this area. The emphasis in the report on promoting creativity is also very much to be welcomed, although I have to say I sometimes worry about the implied division between creative subjects and other subjects, because if all subjects are not being creative, then they are being done wrong. These are bold and large-scale measures that will be supported by all educators, and we welcome the recognition that they are part of the solution.
As has been mentioned, the report was unanimous among a disparate group. Well, one of the ways of achieving unanimity on this sort of commission is by leaving subjects out, and there are two issues that I think should have played a bigger role in the work of the commission. The first is the damage that is done to children’s education by rising levels of poverty. We are aware that the children of poor families do poorly at school. Part of that problem can be addressed by what is being done in the school, and that is addressed in the report, but of course there is a previous question about why they are poor in the first place. What needs to be done to reduce poverty in families?
The second issue that has not had enough attention in the report is the deeply flawed system of primary assessment. The commission rightly says that the current assessment system
“has become a dead hand on education that is sucking the energy out of schools, stifling teachers and condemning too many young people to the scrap heap.”
It analysed the problem; I do not think it has done quite enough to set out how it can be addressed. Again, I would be grateful if the Minister would say something in her reply.
The main issue I wish to raise is the issue of girls and maths, physics and engineering. Someone said:
“From my own knowledge of these things, physics is not something that girls tend to fancy. They don't want to do it ... There’s a lot of hard maths in there that I think that they would rather not do.”
So said Katharine Birbalsingh, chair of the Government’s Social Mobility Commission and a secondary school head teacher, to the Commons Science and Technology Committee. Comments like this are extremely disappointing. There are multiple reasons why girls do not choose to study physics at A level, or for a degree, and not wanting to do maths is not one of them. It is worth exploring in some detail why the progress that has been achieved in getting girls to do maths has not been reflected in getting girls to do physics. The evidence shows that the expectations placed on pupils by society play a large role in which students go on to take physics at higher levels. A popular example is the television show “The Big Bang Theory”, which had four male physics and engineering students leading. Only in subsequent episodes were young women introduced.
The ASPIRES project found that, from age 10 to 18, boys were significantly more likely than girls to say that their teacher expected them to do well in science, and to feel that their teacher was interested in whether they understood science. The research found that girls often did not feel “clever enough” to do physics, even though girls achieve similar grades to boys in mathematics and physics. The stereotype is that boys are naturally better at physics than girls, and this messaging is still being passed on, both intentionally and unintentionally, to our young people in school, in their home lives and through the media. This is not just me saying this; the Institute of Physics has done the research, and its Limit Less report found that girls are often told that physics is more suited to boys.
Young people are put off studying physics from age 16 by misconceptions about what physics is. Girls are told that physics is too difficult, not creative or boring, but the report also shows that young people are denied the opportunity to study physics because of the prejudice I have emphasised. Another report from the Institute of Physics shows that in single-sex schools, a greater proportion of girls took physics than in co-educational schools across both the state and private school system. In environments where gendered messaging is lessened, the participation rate of girls increases. So, we need to increase awareness among children at school of gendered stereotyping in subject choice and equip them with the tools to be resilient to this. We also need to provide training to support teachers’ awareness of the damage caused by gender stereotypes, and to provide them with resources and tools to combat them.
I am not totally pessimistic about the prospects for advance in this area. In my own profession, the actuarial profession, the position of women has been immensely improved over the last 20 years, with new actuaries coming through virtually in equal proportions, and many women now taking leading roles in the profession. So, we can achieve change in this sort of area.
The specific problem with girls not taking physics is the knock-on effect that they do not take engineering at university because, in practice, most universities require you to have a physics A-level before you can do engineering. So, if you have not done physics, you do not get in to do engineering. This is the central problem that needs to be addressed.
I have only one other issue to raise in passing: school meals are also not mentioned in the report. What is clear is that school meals are important to education. It is not just about poverty relief or helping poor families; it is about improving children’s education. We found that out 30 years ago, when my colleague, the noble Viscount, Lord Stansgate, and I fought to provide free meals in our schools. The advantages were clear and absolute, but because we were an education authority, we could do it only for educational reasons. We got a very powerful legal opinion from a future Lord Chancellor and a future Prime Minister, who provided us with clear and powerful advice to that effect. That advice still stands: providing free meals in schools to some extent—I would provide them for all—has a powerful educational effect. There is nothing in the report about that at all, which is a shame.
Lord Aberdare (CB)
My Lords, it is an unexpected pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Brixton, as I have been promoted one place up the batting order. Much of what I want to say has already been powerfully covered by other noble Lords, but I am afraid not yet by me. I will try not to be unnecessarily repetitive.
Education is a fundamental building block of our national infrastructure. To support and enhance our productivity, competitiveness and growth, we need people with the right skills, knowledge and aspirations to drive our economy and nurture our society. Only education can meet those needs, so it is disappointing that, as the noble Lord, Lord Baker, pointed out, education so often seems to take something of a back seat in relation to other policy areas, despite being so crucial to all of them.
The Times Education Commission, with its aim
“to examine Britain’s whole education system and consider its future in the light of the Covid-19 crisis, declining social mobility, new technology and the changing nature of work”,
is therefore greatly to be applauded, as is the noble Lord, Lord Lexden, in obtaining this debate. The report contains numerous ideas and recommendations which deserve serious consideration. I welcome its focus on the content of education—what the curriculum needs to deliver and how it should be assessed—more than on its structure and funding. I will focus on just a few of the commission’s specific recommendations which seem to me to be particularly important.
I will first consider the idea of a curriculum built around a new British baccalaureate, modelled on the highly regarded international baccalaureate. The commission suggests that this could encompass both a diploma programme with a greater emphasis on academic subjects and a career-related programme with a stronger vocational and technical focus, combining learning with work experience. Students could mix and match elements of both programmes and all of them would undertake an extended project and some community service. Importantly, digital skills would be embedded throughout their learning and all pupils should have access to a laptop or tablet.
This approach, which the commission states would be designed to be
“at least as demanding as A-levels”,
would offer major advantages. It should give extra impetus to the long-overdue elimination of the gap in parity of esteem between academic and vocational education—between knowledge and skills, if you like—by ensuring that all students have the option to pursue elements of both according to their own interests and talents.
I strongly welcome the suggestion that
“All secondary pupils should have the chance of work experience”—
but would leave out “the chance of”. All students, including primary students, should have work experience, full stop. It must be of high quality, with the quantity specified by the Baker clause seen as an absolute minimum.
My own former small training business used to run what we called “alternative work experience” programmes for groups of London students for whom their schools had been unable to find suitable work experience placements at the end of the summer term—often students whom they regarded as least likely to do well, or at risk of becoming NEET. One of the most rewarding aspects of these programmes was seeing how the aspirations, interests and enthusiasms of the students often blossomed when they were introduced to a range of very varied working environments of which they had previously had little or no conception: from office jobs in business and accountancy, to hotels and restaurants, car showrooms, city farms, construction sites, leisure attractions, fire stations, film and TV studios, tourism companies—I could go on. For many of them this was a truly eye-opening experience, and another of the rewards for us was seeing the astonished reactions of some of the teachers when they returned to their schools and gave enthusiastic presentations about what they had seen and done during the programme, what they had learned, and how it had affected their career aspirations. How can young people be expected to make sensible career choices if they have had no experience at all of the range of different routes and working environments available to them?
Another important recommendation of the commission is that
“Sport, music, drama, art, debating and dance should be an integral part of the timetable for all children, not an optional ‘extracurricular’ add on”.
This could go a long way to reversing the crowding out of education in music and other creative subjects by the EBacc, which has resulted in an alarming decline in GCSE and A-level take-up in these subjects, and an ever-widening gap between fee-paying schools, which recognise their value and importance, and many state schools, which lack the funding, resources and incentives, if not the will, to give them their proper place in the curriculum.
The “electives premium” for secondary schools proposed by the commission is an imaginative approach to tackling this and I hope the Minister will indicate how the Government might respond to it—perhaps the idea would lend itself to a pilot scheme to assess its benefits. This is also an area where greater collaboration between state and independent schools, as called for by the commission, could play an important part. Perhaps I should declare my interest as chair of a charity promoting classical music teaching in schools.
The final recommendation of the commission’s 12-point plan for education is that there should be:
“A 15-year strategy for education, drawn up in consultation with business leaders, scientists, local mayors, civic leaders and cultural figures, putting education above short-term party politics and bringing out the best in our schools, colleges and universities”
—amen to that. Adapting and enhancing our education system so that it better meets the needs of the world we now find ourselves in, the needs of our young people—not forgetting us older people—and the needs of the nation and the Government in pursuit of prosperity, well-being and growth will never be a short-term challenge, or straightforward politically. It needs time and commitment, beyond the span of a single Government, with a clear idea of where we want to go and how we plan to get there. It needs widespread consensus, buy-in and support across parties, business sectors and regions. It needs to complement and reinforce other strategic goals and policy priorities, notably in relation to meeting recognised skills needs and our net-zero commitments in the green agenda.
The commission has performed a valuable service in proposing ideas that could feature in such a strategy. So I find it disappointing that the Government’s response—and even the response of the Minister, who we know is so strongly committed to ambitious educational reform—has been so dismissive of ideas such as a British baccalaureate, and has said that they have no plans to respond to the commission’s report.
There are a number of questions that I hope the Minister will address in her response to this debate. First, will she look again at the case for some sort of government response to, or at least commentary on, the report? It seeks to generate a debate on a wide range of fundamental issues concerning the future of education policy, and the Government surely need to encourage and contribute to that debate.
Secondly, are there specific elements of the commission’s 12-point plan which the Government might consider implementing or at least exploring further, such as the electives premium? Will the Minister look at how the commission’s findings might be relevant to proposals in the current Schools Bill, with a view to amending the Bill to address them, or even replacing it with a more ambitious Bill tackling issues concerning curriculum and assessment in addition to structure, along the lines proposed by the commission? More broadly, how will the Government seek to ensure that the central importance of education to our national infrastructure and well-being is better reflected across the policy spectrum?
My hope is that the Minister’s answers to this debate will make it clear that this excellent piece of work by the Times Education Commission will not become just another ambitious, comprehensive, broadly based, well-researched exercise destined to languish on numerous bookshelves as a sad reminder of what might be achieved if the challenges facing education were given the priority and emphasis they deserve. It would redound to the Government’s credit if, instead, they seized the opportunity to use this report as a basis for starting a genuine national debate on a longer-term, sustainable approach to meeting our future educational needs, ideally with a 15-year strategy at its heart.
Lord Johnson of Marylebone (Con)
My Lords, I am grateful for the opportunity to speak very briefly in the gap and I congratulate my noble friend Lord Lexden on convening this excellent discussion. It is an honour to follow the excellent contributions from Members of this House.
I was particularly struck by my noble friend Lord Lexden’s comments about the need for rigorous manifesto processes and the Times Education Commission being an example of a rigorous process likely to result in good policy in due course. I was privileged to serve alongside the noble Lord, Lord Rees, on the commission and have had a little experience of writing manifestos for the Conservative Party. I agree wholeheartedly with the sentiment that the more manifestos road test their recommendations with the widest possible groups—the more they consult and the more they engage—the likelier they are to result in deliverable programmes of government. Sadly, the manifesto that I was involved in most closely, in 2015, resulted in the first majority Conservative Government in 25 years but, as a programme for government, lasted less time than I spent helping to write it due to the change in government following the referendum of that year. Good process does not necessarily get you all the way you want to go in the end.
I also want to take advantage of my time to commend the Times and, in particular, as the noble Lord, Lord Rees, mentioned, the outgoing editor, John Witherow; the person who held the pen on this whole project, Rachel Sylvester; and Sir Anthony Seldon for coming up with the idea in the first place. It is worth noting that, as John Witherow retires, after many years at the head of the Times and before that the Sunday Times, he has been a great force for good in British journalism and across the UK media landscape. He has always been a great pragmatic, calm figure. He is someone of great distinction and we owe him a lot for all the good work he has done at the Times and, before that, the Sunday Times over the years.
The commission approached its work very much in an ecumenical spirit. I was grateful to my noble friend Lord Willetts for noting the constructive tone of the report. There were very few arguments between commissioners, notwithstanding the very diverse range of backgrounds and political viewpoints from which they all came. There were very few points of disagreement. Very seldom did it get heated. There was a genuine commitment to trying to work in the greater interests of the country, setting aside party-political disagreements and avoiding point-scoring wherever possible. Rachel Sylvester helped brilliantly in that regard by not really giving us much of an opportunity to comment on the draft once she had written it. It went to print very rapidly before any of us, experts in the art of write-rounds, could stick our oar in. Well done, Rachel, in that respect.
On the substantive points that Members have made, it speaks to an issue of capability in our government system at the moment that we need an exercise such as the Times Education Commission to help us lift our eyes to the horizon and think about the big challenges that our education system faces. Why did it require this? The reality, as we all know, is that Governments of all types—it is not just true right now, although we are in a particularly turbulent time—fail to think for the long term and tend to be consumed by one crisis after another. Ministers have also struggled to think strategically and about systems as a whole. There is an opportunity to take the Times Education Commission’s last recommendation, which is for a 15-year strategy, and to think of the mechanism by which we can best put that in place. I suggest, in my dying seconds, that we could consider a recommendation for a royal commission to create that first 15-year strategy. We have not had a royal commission on education for many years and I think one is long overdue.
Lord Storey (LD)
My Lords, I sometimes wish I had the confidence and ability just to push aside my prepared words and respond to some of the comments that have been made. For example, the noble Lord, Lord Willetts, rightly talks about the continuing growth in university places, but he knows that that is driven by financial reasons in the main. There are more and more overseas students and universities—in London, for example—are setting up campuses that do not even have a library but pile the students in to get the money. They do not even give disadvantaged students access to IT or a laptop.
We heard a number of noble Lords, particularly the noble Lord, Lord Baker, plead with the Government to see sense, but the sad thing is that Governments do not do that. They set out their stall and live or die by it. They might change at the margin and they might firefight, but change comes about when new Governments come into power having listened to the points made over time.
The Times Education Commission report, Bringing Out the Best, is not driven by dogma or idealism. It is not driven by short-term fixes or popular political slogans. It looks at education from preschool to post school and from academic to vocational education; it looks at the needs of all our children. The report brings a well consulted, researched and coherent plan for ambitious education reform. Its conclusions are realistic and achievable, and the financial implications credible and well thought through.
Your Lordships have raised a number of common themes time after time, and I shall add my thoughts to the wise words of my fellow Members, but I first thank the noble Lord, Lord Lexden, for securing this debate. He is a tireless champion of the independent sector and independent schools. He may remember that a few months ago, I congratulated him on an intervention he made on behalf of the independent sector but, at the same time, I wished for his wisdom for the maintained sector. In securing this debate, he has given that—and in spades.
As the report shows, Covid has had a devastating effect on our children and young people, especially those from poorer backgrounds, who have suffered most. The learning gap has not just widened but become a huge chasm, and the report graphically spells out this and the actions we need to take.
The report also sees it as an opportunity to bring about fundamental change. Tony Blair famously said that it is about “Education, education, education”. I would add that it is about “Teachers, teachers, teachers”. Michael Gove, during his tenure as Secretary of State for Education, always used Finland as an exemplar. What he did not say was that Finnish teachers must have a master’s degree. Finnish teachers are well trained, with continuous professional development. I want the same for our teaching profession: to be the best in the world, with teachers well supported, highly trained, well respected and, of course, well paid.
Teachers should be given greater mental health resources to prevent burnout and the shocking resulting plummet in teacher retention. As the report says:
“The status of the teaching profession in this country should be raised and the job made more intellectually engaging.”
I also very much support career paths for teaching assistants, who are the unrecognised gems in our schools. I have doubts about more routes to a teaching degree. Training a teacher cannot be a quick fix; it needs time, resources and good practice. It is alarming that, in the rush to plug teacher shortages, we look at training them very quickly. Primary teachers, for example, need to be taught child development. The notion that they should go into primary school not knowing about child development is unbelievable. Teachers need to learn how to identify educational needs.
Good schools, of course, are invariably led by good and outstanding leaders. The highest quality of school leadership is vital. So I say yes to a national leadership programme. Teachers need to be free from unnecessary red tape and unnecessary bureaucracy so that they can get on with the job of teaching.
Yes, of course we need school inspections, but we do not need a name and shame regime. We do not need to beat up our schools and our school teachers. Let us ban the need for schools to fly banners from their gates proclaiming they are a good school. There are still 360 areas in England where every primary is rated either inadequate or requiring improvement, with the majority in the most deprived parts of the country. All schools should be good or outstanding and we achieve that by Ofsted identifying problems, with more nuanced inspections, looking into pupil skills, social skills and emotional development; and then, away from the glare of public condemnation, working with those schools to improve.
I taught all my teaching career in one local authority. Every year, that local authority has the worst educational results in the country. From its inception in 1970 or whenever it was until now, it has had the worst results of any school in the country. What have successive Governments done about that? They have allowed the local authority to close all the secondary schools and open secondary learning centres, which got poorer results than the schools that were closed down, which had budget deficits and where over two-thirds of head teachers left within two years. What did the Government do about that? Absolutely nothing.
So to the curriculum. Our school curriculum is rigid and inflexible. As the report says, most schools are constrained by an outdated rubric composed by Whitehall that has no room for regional variation and takes little account of employers’ needs. Our curriculum is hidebound by rote learning. Younger children learn by play and discovery and, as they get older, we have to give them opportunities to ignite their passions, interests and strengths. We need to make a curriculum fit for purpose to reflect the 21st-century UK. It is Black History Month, yet it is a disgrace that the curriculum of most schools does not reflect the multicultural community that our society has become.
The damage that the EBacc has done to creative subjects is there for all to see and the intransigence of Governments, against all the evidence, beggars belief. Further, it is nonsensical to limit creative subjects. The creative industry generated £119 billion for the economy in 2019. The report rightly says that sport, music, drama, debating and dance should be an integral part of the timetable for all children, not an extracurricular add-on, as the noble Lord, Lord Lexden, knows only too well. The independent schools know and do this well. Employers are looking for diligent, adaptable, innovatory thinkers in their organisations. A more well-rounded curriculum is needed for this, which implies greater emphasis on creative education, extracurricular options and a diversifying curriculum.
I turn to assessment. It should—must—be a continuous process, not an outdated requirement to turn up to an exam hall in the summer months and sit an exam for two and a half to three hours; that takes no account of summer-born children, by the way. What happens if a poor girl has started her period? What happens if there has been some tragedy in the family? The effect that has on that pupil’s ability to do well in their exam is hindered. So I say yes to continuous assessment.
I would scrap the EBacc completely. I welcome the report’s proposals for a slimmed-down set of exams in five core subjects. I very much welcome and like the idea of a British baccalaureate at 18, with academic and vocational subjects under the same umbrella. I must say, I have never been quite sure about the term “vocational”. I do not think that parents understand it. They think it is some sort of namby-pamby thing—that it is not really a qualification at school. We need to find another term instead.
On levelling up, of course the eight measures that support childcare should be overseen by the same department and brought together by one. Yet the recent Schools Bill focused too much emphasis on governance, not content or approach reform in the wake of existing inequalities. Levelling up requires an acute emphasis on addressing the barriers, insufficiencies and struggles addressed in the report, homing in on the ways in which we can tangibly close the gap of disadvantage and leave no child behind for success.
Levelling up must also prioritise the individual and multifaceted needs of pupils with learning and physical disabilities, ensuring that we do not consider only those who fit in the narrow box of success that the system is currently built upon. There is an existing gap between the needs of the economy and how we are preparing future generations. Information and digital skills, practical skills, qualifications, study habits, emotional intelligence and creativity are all needed for success. We must better connect the skills we are teaching children with both industry needs and the passions of children to maximise the potential for success. There is no one post-secondary route that fits all. The system must not only better reflect this but better inquire into how we can better support each pathway option for young people.
The OECD’s director for skills mentions this:
“Your education today is your economy tomorrow.”
Employers are looking for diligent, adaptable, innovatory thinkers in their organisations. Levelling up will not take one action. I agree that long-term planning and consultation with a wide variety of educational experts is needed to drive forward-thinking policies. I commend the Times Commission on showing the kinds of deliverables that can come with this kind of cross-sector collaboration. The report alludes to this Government’s lack of prioritisation for education funding, resulting in children paying a high price for the pandemic. Reform has stalled. The report should be the wake-up call to ignite tangible change that goes beyond short-attention-span policies.
Bringing Out the Best has a 12-point plan, as we have heard. I note that there was a young persons’ panel made up of primary school children, secondary school children and post-16s. I would love to have been a fly on the wall to hear what they had to say. Among the proposals were laptops and tablets, of course, but many poor families cannot afford wi-fi. Why are we not providing wi-fi for those families?
I love the idea of an “army of undergraduate tutors”. Children relate to young people. We could be innovative and, dare I say it, link that to their loan. Well-being should be at the heart of schools. There should be a school counsellor, not just for children but for staff. I also love the idea of an “electives premium” for the arts, sport, volunteering and outdoor pursuits. I declare an interest as a trustee of the Summer Camps Trust.
The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, is absolutely right that we need in every school a careers adviser who can give face-to-face interviews with pupils.
I want to say how important it is that we develop oracy in our schools. In independent schools, there is a high premium on children debating and being able to speak. We do not do that in the maintained and academy sectors as well as we should, so, when young people go for jobs, they struggle to verbalise how they feel. Oracy should be part of our education system.
The subtitle of this report is
“How to transform education and unleash the potential of every child”.
I hope that the Minister will do all in her power to see that this report informs the thinking and actions of our Government.
Baroness Chapman of Darlington (Lab)
My Lords, it is a real pleasure to take part in this debate. I do not know about A-level physics, but getting women to take part in education debates on a Thursday afternoon might need a little work as well.
It is also a pleasure to follow the noble Lord, Lord Storey, although I am not quite as miserable about the whole situation as his speech implied that he is. I am sure that he has some moments of optimism and celebration about what is happening in our schools too. I particularly echo his support for teachers. I do not know whether this is compulsory, but I declare that my son has just started a four-year course learning to be a primary school teacher at Nottingham Trent University. I could not be prouder of him. However, my friends who are primary schoolteachers were not exactly encouraging and tried to talk him out of it, which says something a little concerning about teachers who have been in the profession for some time.
I congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Lexden, particularly on his introductory speech and on securing what has been a very good debate. I will leave his comments on the internal workings of the Conservative Party to the Minister. I am sure that she has noted the remarks on that subject from the noble Lord, Lord Johnson, which I enjoyed.
Many noble Lords bring professional and personal experience to this Chamber, and that expertise has been most valuable in our considerations this afternoon. However, a thread of frustration ran through the debate. It was not directed at this Minister, but clearly we all want the Government to do much better in education than most contributors agree that they have in recent years. It is a mark of the quality of the debate that no one has claimed to have all the answers to the challenges faced by our children and young people in 2022, except perhaps the noble Lord, Lord Baker, who had rather a lot of the answers. He tested the patience of his Whip but he had something to say. His contribution was well worth listening to.
However, no one will have all the answers until we properly understand the challenges and the problems. That is where the Times report is so valuable. If we are to have a 15-year strategy or anything like that, we must have a shared understanding of the reality as it is today—not how it was when we were at school, how we imagine it might be now or what we pick up from our children, but how it is and what the evidence and experience of people currently in the education system tells us. That is where the report is so helpful.
Of course, what is also needed is a Government with a laser-like focus on this topic, and we do not have that right now. Two politicians have been raised rather a lot: Tony Blair and Michael Gove. Much as I fundamentally disagreed with Michael Gove on many of the things that he did—the one that stands out was the rebanding of the grades in GCSE English one year, which was dreadful—we had a sense that somebody was in charge and that there was a direction of travel at that time. We have missed that since then. I did not like the direction of travel but at least there was one.
This commission has highlighted some of the worst shortcomings of the UK’s education system in recent years. It tells us what many of us already know: that our system is not preparing children adequately for life, never mind employment. Some 22% of adults lack the digital skills to take part in the modern world, and 75% of employers say that they have had to give staff extra training in basic skills. Employers should, of course, invest in their workforce and constantly improve their employees’ skills, but they should also be able to recruit staff with solid basic skills.
As the noble Lord, Lord Baker, reminded us, this is an issue of global competitiveness. I should tell him that I make a point of reading many of the reports from the Tony Blair Institute, not just those on education and skills; I think I was probably a Blairite before it became fashionable in my party again. As the noble Lord, Tony Blair and many others have often observed, a failure to address these challenges and to invest in the skills needed—in engineering, pharmaceuticals or design, for example—will leave the UK unable to lead the industries of today, never mind tomorrow.
I remember being in Sedgefield Labour club around 1998 listening to Tony talking about China. He said that China was not about poor people on bicycles anymore; it was a country that was investing heavily in its workforce and it would be globally competitive as a consequence. He was trying to argue that we should be doing the same. That we have not managed to do that sufficiently is harming our position internationally. It is leaving our country, and our young people in particular, trailing behind other nations.
My noble friend Lord Knight was right to remind us that our education system is a place of hope. We must never forget that: it is an investment in our collective, as well as individual, futures. I always feel more positive and optimistic after listening to my noble friend, because of his day-to-day involvement in schools. The innovation he leads gives some cause for optimism.
Pleasingly, the report seems to have received a warm reception from practitioners and experts, and across party lines in this House. This has not been a party-political debate and it has been all the better for it. I hope we will better understand what the Government make of the report after the Minister closes this debate, but I wonder whether she can tell us whether the Government will publish a formal response. I know the Government do not publish formal responses to every report published by every random think tank, but this report is rather special and it might be worthy of something more substantial from the Government than we have had so far. It is an important piece of work and it would help to know the Government’s view on it. Maybe what we get from the Minister this afternoon will be enough, but it would be good to have something of substance.
I agree with my noble friend Lord Watson on his well-informed comments on early years, and on the emphasis he placed on chapter 2 of the report. We have heard a jumble of comments from the Government about how early years and play-based education are regulated and funded. One product of the rapid turnover of Secretaries of State and Ministers is that we hear random musings from the Government and we do not know how to treat them. It is the opposite of good, clear leadership. I am sure the Minister knows that parents and providers of early years need clarity and certainty to plan. I hope we will get some detail from the Minister shortly, if not necessarily today.
The Minister is familiar with concerns about the impact on the cost per place from direct childcare payments. That is one of the ideas of which the Prime Minister is quite fond. Of course we all want a simplified system, but undermining providers and risking a reduction in places or an escalation in costs, pricing many parents out of childcare altogether, is not the answer. Could she assure us that she understands these concerns and let us know what the current thinking is? Could the Minister also give us an idea of when we might have a fuller Statement on the Government’s childcare reforms, so that we can have an informed debate on the issue?
Talking of informed debate, many noble Lords present spent days working to improve the Schools Bill in Committee, before the Summer Recess. What is the Minister able to say on that topic today? To be fair, the Minister at the time was very understanding of our concerns, and set up a process to examine some of the problems that we identified with the Bill. There were some measures that were broadly welcomed—those around home education, for example—so we would like to know what the current thinking is. We do understand that a new Secretary of State will perhaps want to reconsider the approach; that is only to be expected. If that is what is happening, it would be reassuring to know, as well as an idea of how long that might take.
Some of the proposals in the commission sit well with existing Labour Party policies, such as in-school counsellors to support well-being, a focus on career development for teachers and a collaborative approach from Ofsted. Others are really exciting propositions that we would love to explore further, such as ideas to address higher education cold spots, and the work to improve participation in music, drama and sport. The noble Lord, Lord Shipley, made some excellent points about flexible higher education, and his comments chime well with the commission’s recommendations. I hope that we can explore them a little further.
The commission has been creative, curious, and open-minded. That is the approach that I think we want to see from our Government too. I have to agree with the noble Lord, Lord Davies, though, and the National Education Union, when they say that this report is sadly another indicator of the gulf between the Government’s policies and the needs of our education system today. That is how, I am afraid, it does feel to parents and teachers who are dealing with the day-to-day reality of underfunding and lack of leadership. Despite wanting to centralise everything all the time, there is a lack of central leadership from the Government and of clarity of direction. And now we have the threat of strikes from an exhausted, overworked and undervalued workforce, which will not make things any easier at all.
Things have not been going well in recent years; I think that is fair to say. Difficult though it may be, Education Ministers are going to have put aside the broader chaos—if I can put it that way—engulfing this Government and focus relentlessly on the needs of our youngest citizens. I will finish by repeating the noble Lord, Lord Rees, when he said that the upheaval of Covid should energise us. I hope—perhaps more than expect, in the current political context—that that is what is about to happen.
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Baroness Barran) (Con)
My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Lexden for securing this important debate, all Members of your Lordships’ House who were involved in the Times Education Commission and the wider membership of the commission, and all of your Lordships for the insight and ideas in the debate today. My noble friend set a challenge in terms of vision and ambition, which I welcome warmly.
The noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, talked about a gulf between government policy and the ambition in the commission’s report. As she says—I will probably misquote her—I hope, but am not confident, that I will reassure her that the gulf is not quite as she fears. Over the last 12 years, this Government have committed to supporting all children and young people to realise their potential. The Times Education Commission suggests that change is needed, and I am grateful for the opportunity to set out how the Government are certainly delivering on many of the elements of change that are highlighted in this report.
My noble friend Lord Baker was extremely critical of our current education system, but I remind the House that it has made a huge amount of progress over the last 10 years, particularly when compared internationally. England has received the highest ever score in both the most recent international reading literacy study and the most recent Trends in International Mathematics and Science Study. I hope noble Lords will acknowledge that, because many of the comments in your Lordships’ House might have suggested otherwise. Furthermore, the OECD’s Programme for International Student Assessment showed that 15 year-olds in England performed above the OECD averages for all reading, maths and science subjects, which all your Lordships have stressed the importance of.
In the decade before the pandemic, we drove improvements across the board. Some 87% of schools are now rated as good or outstanding, which is up from 68% in 2010. We are not quite at the ambition of the noble Lord, Lord Storey, of no schools either being inadequate or requiring improvement, but I reassure him that the chart on the wall in my office is of those schools and we monitor it every month to make sure that the number is coming down.
Pre-pandemic results show that, in 2019, 65% of key stage 2 pupils reached the expected standard in all of reading, writing and maths, which was a seven percentage-point increase in reading and a nine percentage-point increase in maths since 2016. Of course, as noble Lords have rightly pointed out and as the Government, our children, our teachers and our schools are all too aware, the pandemic has set us back, but the latest post-pandemic results for 2022 show that 59% of key stage 2 pupils met the expected standard in all of reading, writing and maths.
As noble Lords know, to address that, we have announced almost £5 billion for an ambitious multi-year educational recovery plan, and earlier this year we published the schools White Paper, in which we set out our bold vision for education to 2030, which is built on four pillars: higher standards, system reform, greater recognition of teachers, and targeted support for students as the foundation of education recovery and social mobility or, as, the noble Lord, Lord Watson prefers to describe it, social justice—let us have both. I will discuss each of those pillars in turn and how they address the commission’s recommendations.
As many noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Lexden and the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, have commented, the commission recommends the creation of a new British baccalaureate. As I told this House in June, the Government have transformed the quality of academic and technical qualifications over the past decade. We have reformed GCSEs and A-levels to ensure that they are in line with the world’s highest-performing education systems and to support all young people to achieve their potential. We have introduced T-levels with 45 days’ work experience, which I hope pleases all noble Lords; in particular, that was a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare. There are other reforms in train, but we currently have no plans to introduce a British baccalaureate.
A number of noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Willetts and the noble Lords, Lord Knight and Lord Rees, asked about the narrowing of the curriculum. We are aware that there are trade-offs between the depth of the curriculum and its breadth, as all your Lordships understand. We are very clear that young people should be able to access a broad and balanced knowledge-rich curriculum up to the age of 16. We want pupils to leave school prepared in the widest sense for adult life. The acquisition of knowledge is the basic building block of education to which all pupils should have fair access, and a knowledge-based curriculum can stimulate critical thinking and inquiry skills that can be taught only in the context of solid subject content.
I will absolutely take back to the department the very thoughtful contributions from your Lordships about where they see the potential to broaden or reinforce the curriculum as it stands today. But as I was listening to your Lordships, I thought that we are moving from a world with a choice between breadth and depth to one where, as we have heard, not just in this country but all across the world, the skills required in employment are evolving over time. We have a sort of three-way pull of breadth, depth and flexibility/longevity. I will come on to talk about the lifelong loan entitlement but I know that your Lordships support it as an important way forward to achieving that longevity and flexibility of education.
We will introduce the lifelong loan entitlement from 2025 and people will be able to train, retrain and upskill by undertaking modules or full courses at higher technical and degree levels, regardless of whether these are provided in colleges or universities. I hope that goes some way to addressing the points raised by the noble Lords, Lord Shipley and Lord Rees of Ludlow.
The noble Lord, Lord Watson, asked for an update on the LLE consultation. As he knows, it closed on 6 May. It covered a number of areas, including the ambition and coverage, along with aspects such as maintenance support, which he raised. We are currently going through those contributions and will publish our response in due course; the same applies to the minimum eligibility requirements consultation.
To enable system reform, we have delivered the biggest funding boost for schools in a decade and continue to deliver year on year, real-terms per-pupil increases to funding. We share the commission’s enthusiasm for the potential for technology to improve learner outcomes and reduce workload for teachers, which is why we are building on our huge investment, made during the pandemic, of nearly 2 million laptops and tablets. We are making sure that every school can access a high-speed broadband connection by 2025 and investing up to £150 million to improve school wi-fi in priority areas, which will support schools to meet our new standards for technology.
The noble Lords, Lord Storey and Lord Davies of Brixton, raised the recommendation in the commission’s report regarding Ofsted: it proposed that Ofsted should focus on sustained improvement. We believe that Ofsted’s education inspection framework, which took effect in 2019, does exactly that. It encourages leaders and teachers to focus on the intent, implementation and impact of their curriculum. As I mentioned, the proportion of schools rated good or outstanding has improved substantially, from 68% in 2010 to 87% in 2021.
The commission also called for improvements in the status of teaching, which the noble Lord, Lord Storey, supported. As part of the schools White Paper, we announced £30,000 as the starting salary to attract the very best teachers, with additional incentives to work in the schools with most need. I think the noble Lord spent his teaching career in Liverpool; I am on the 7.07 am train to Liverpool tomorrow to see some of the work going on there. I really would like to set the record straight about what the Government are doing. We are bringing in some of the best multi-academy trusts so that their expertise is brought to areas which, as the noble Lord knows, have failed children for too long.
Returning to the teaching profession, we will provide better professional development for teachers, with 500,000 training and development opportunities, such as the early careers framework and the refreshed national professional qualifications, so that all teachers and school leaders can access world-class professional development at every stage of their career.
We believe that our Green Paper, published in March, closely mirrors the report’s recommendations for greater support for pupils with special educational needs and disabilities. The reforms in the Green Paper focus on earlier identification and support for teachers, as well as on making sure that children are supported to manage their needs early and, in relation to alternative provision, that we reduce preventable exclusions as much as possible. We are also providing more training in areas fundamental to high-quality teaching, such as behaviour management, adaptive teaching and curriculum design, which will help teachers support all pupils to succeed.
The noble Lord, Lord Addington, asked me for an update on next steps on the SEND Green Paper. We will publish our response to the consultation via our improvement plan by the end of this year. The noble Lord also asked about accessibility to technology for students with special educational needs, particularly dyslexia. I think the noble Lord is aware of our pilot for assistive technology training, which took place in 74 schools between January and March 2022. We are extending that training to increase staff confidence when using assistive technology.
The commission calls for an “electives premium” and recommends that well-being is put at the heart of education—the noble Lord, Lord Aberdare, raised this in particular. To support cultural enrichment, the Government published the national plan for music education in June and will publish a cultural education plan in 2023. This will include our support for young people who pursue careers in our creative and cultural industries. We continue to build on our high-quality citizenship education by supporting the national youth guarantee, promoting volunteering and expanding access to the Duke of Edinburgh’s Award and cadet schemes. On that note, I echo my noble friend Lord Lexden’s call for greater collaboration between independent schools and maintained schools. In my capacity as Minister in that area, I support that but would be glad of more advice from my noble friend on how we can progress it further.
The commission calls for undergraduate tutors to help pupils who fall behind in their learning. We are addressing this issue through our National Tutoring Programme, which allows schools to decide how to provide this support and has already delivered over 1 million tutoring courses since November 2020. We believe that this is set to rise to 6 million by 2024.
We agree that physical and mental well-being is a key enabler for children to benefit from their time in school. That is why we are building on the additional £79 million invested in specialist mental health support for children and young people during the pandemic by accelerating the introduction of mental health support teams that provide extra capacity for early support and advising school staff.
On early years support, the noble Lords, Lord Davies of Brixton and Lord Rees of Ludlow, and the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, emphasised the importance of giving our children the best start in life. To do that, we have invested over £3.5 billion in each of the last three years in our early education entitlements for children aged two to four. In October 2021, we announced additional funding of £160 million in 2022-23, £180 million the following year and £170 million in 2024-25. This is for local authorities to increase hourly rates paid to childcare providers and reflects changes in the number of eligible children anticipated at the time of the spending review.
The noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, asked if I would acknowledge that, in any reformed childcare, we need to consider that we do not end up excluding providers and creating even more pressure in the market. Of course she makes a very good point, which will be considered. She also asked about progress on the Schools Bill. The legislative agenda is under review, and I will update the House in due course.
I think that the House acknowledges that we have introduced ambitious, long-term structural reforms to give people the skills they need to get good jobs and to boost productivity across the country. They will put employers at the heart of skills training and education; reform incentives for providers to deliver high-quality provision; and enable learners to take up skills training and education over their lifetimes. Those might be three clauses in one sentence, but I know that your Lordships know that there is an enormous challenge—and opportunity—in delivering that. All this is underpinned by a £3.8 billion investment in further education and skills across this Parliament.
The noble Lords, Lord Knight and Lord Rees, and my noble friend Lord Willetts all talked about the potential for technology to contribute to our education system. We absolutely agree with that; I share their enthusiasm on this point. On 25 May, we announced that the Open University will partner with further education providers to offer more high-quality technical education to tackle cold spots in provision.
We also share the report’s ambition to establish elite technical and vocational provision with close links to industry. In response to the comments from the noble Lord, Lord Shipley, I say that this is why we are establishing a network of 21 institutes of technology across England for post-16 learners. These are prestigious, employer-led institutions that will bring together technical, vocational and industry partners to deliver higher-level technical skills, particularly in STEM-based sectors, including digital, advanced manufacturing, engineering and construction.
I am out of time, so I will cover in a letter the points I have not managed to cover here. I will look back over this debate in Hansard to ensure that I have really acknowledged all noble Lords’ contributions. Like the authors of the Times Education Commission, all of us here are committed to delivering an education system that gives everyone opportunities to thrive and realise their potential, no matter where they live across the country. It may be above my pay grade to be able to organise a royal commission—as my noble friend suggested—but we remain open to discussion, ideas and challenges for improvement. However, as a Government, we also need to focus to deliver the potential of the major changes we are making, particularly to skills and lifelong learning.
Lord Lexden (Con)
My Lords, it is the custom for those who introduce these Thursday afternoon debates to conclude by thanking all those who have taken part. I perform this traditional duty with the greatest possible sincerity this afternoon. I was particularly grateful for the kind comments of the noble Baroness, Lady Chapman, because I remember the last time that we found ourselves in debate, during which I spoke rather intemperately about her comments on independent schools. I have been seeking to smile benignly across the Chamber throughout this afternoon.
It is extraordinary to think that so long—12 years—has gone by since we last had a full and wide-ranging education debate in this House, as my noble friend Lord Baker, the Disraeli de nos jours, reminded us. We are united across this House—this is the great point—in recognising the enduring importance of the Times Education Commission’s report. My noble friend Lord Johnson, a member of the commission—thank goodness it was not his brother—spoke of the great commitment that the newspaper has made.
It is right that we end by giving proper, full recognition to that and to Rachel Sylvester, who guided the whole operation, with my long-standing friend, Anthony Seldon, alongside her. Above all, we recognise that the retiring editor, John Witherow, played such an important part in this great project. The best way in which we can continue to recognise the importance of the report is by keeping these hugely important recommendations in our mind, all gathered together, as noble Lords have said so clearly and effectively.
It was marvellous to have so many young people up in the Gallery while we were engaged in our discussion. It was rather tempting to go up and ask them what they made of what we had to say. It really has been a splendid debate, for which I am extremely grateful. With that, I beg to move.