Oral Answers to Questions
Nick Hurd Excerpts(5 years ago)
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Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Nick Hurd)
In my last questions, may I thank the shadow Secretary of State for his over-generous remarks and associate myself with his kind words about my north-west London neighbour, the hon. Member for Ealing North (Stephen Pound)? I should also like to thank you, Mr Speaker, for your support over many years in the Chair.
Under the proposed agreement, all businesses will continue to trade across the north-south border without tariffs or new regulatory checks. Businesses in Northern Ireland will continue to benefit from tariff-free access to the UK’s single market while having the opportunity to benefit from any future trade deals negotiated by the UK after we leave the EU.
Marion Fellows
Has an economic assessment been prepared to illustrate how much of a competitive advantage Northern Ireland will gain from effectively remaining in the EU’s customs union and single market, compared with other businesses across the rest of the UK? If so, will the Minister publish it?
Mr Hurd
I draw the hon. Lady’s attention to the impact assessment. I do not recognise her comments about competitive advantage or disadvantage. I hope that she will recognise that the circumstances in relation to Northern Ireland are special because of the land border, and that the proposed agreement responds to those special characteristics.
Patrick Grady
The Foreign Secretary has described the deal as “cracking” for Northern Ireland. It stands to reason, then, that the deal must be less cracking for the rest of the UK. Why is Northern Ireland getting special treatment when it voted to remain, while Scotland, which also voted to remain, is having to take the bad hard Brexit that the Tories are so determined to push through?
Mr Hurd
I understand, I think, the point the hon. Gentleman makes, but I return to what I was saying. He knows that the circumstances in Northern Ireland are special in relation to our exit from the EU because of the existence of the land border and because of the importance that we all attach to the Belfast/Good Friday agreement. One of the great achievements of this new proposed withdrawal agreement is the removal of the need for a hard border.
David Morris (Morecambe and Lunesdale) (Con)
Heysham in my constituency is the nearest mainland UK port to Northern Ireland. Does the Minister agree that my area could be a boomtown if we had a free port, as 10% of the north-west’s GDP comes in through our port, and it will be 20% once this withdrawal agreement has been finalised?
Mr Hurd
I congratulate my hon. Friend on his creativity in introducing that point, which I am sure will have been heard by the relevant Secretary of State. He raises an important point about the opportunity and need to talk up the UK economy and to talk up the opportunities to increase business and trade links across the UK internal market once we leave the EU.
Steve McCabe (Birmingham, Selly Oak) (Lab)
Frank Field (Birkenhead) (Ind)
The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office (Mr Nick Hurd)
The mitigations in place were agreed by the previous Northern Ireland Executive and are sunsetted in March 2020. Ministers here in Westminster do not have the power to instruct the Northern Ireland civil service to take action or to direct spending in relation to devolved matters. Any extension of those mitigations will be a matter for the Northern Ireland civil service and restored Executive Ministers.
Steve McCabe
I am—[Interruption.] I am sure that the people of Selly Oak would like the welcome that the Prime Minister just received.
In view of the importance of this issue, will the Minister consider amending the Bill, because it is clear that if the people of Northern Ireland face this welfare cliff edge, there will be major problems from March next year?
Mr Hurd
This is an incredibly serious issue. Thousands of people in Northern Ireland benefit from these mitigations, and there is a sunset provision for the end of March 2020. The hon. Gentleman will know that alternative mechanisms are available to the devolved Administration to extend the mitigations, but that is not ideal. The best way would be to change the legal framework, which is best done in Northern Ireland by a Northern Ireland Executive, and the day when it is restored cannot come too soon.
Frank Field
Does the Minister agree that many families in Northern Ireland are particularly affected by the Government’s policy to cap benefits for families with more than two children? When he next sees the Prime Minister, will he ask for the lifting of the cap, which affects poor children throughout the whole United Kingdom, to be part of his election manifesto?
Mr Hurd
It is not for me to revisit the bowels of welfare policy, but the right hon. Gentleman’s Select Committee on Work and Pensions has raised a serious point about extending the mitigations. That is for the devolved Administration and would be an urgent requirement for a restored Executive.
Karin Smyth (Bristol South) (Lab)
The introduction of universal credit has had a devastating impact in my constituency, but women in Northern Ireland who wish to access an exemption to the two-child limit, known as the rape clause, may still be subject to criminal prosecution for not reporting under the Criminal Law Act (Northern Ireland) 1967, as confirmed by the Director of Public Prosecutions for Northern Ireland. Will the Secretary of State commit to lifting the two-child limit that places families into further hardship?
Mr Hurd
That is an extremely important and sensitive issue. The hon. Lady will know that, in practice, there have been no prosecutions under section 5 of the 1967 Act in the past 50 years. She will also know about the guidance from the Attorney General and from the outgoing DPP, particularly on the status of public interest. I come back to the same old riff: any change in the law is for a devolved Executive and a devolved Administration. This is a serious issue, so it is about time elected politicians in Northern Ireland stepped up to their responsibility.
Gavin Newlands (Paisley and Renfrewshire North) (SNP)
When giving evidence to the Scottish Parliament, the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster confirmed that Northern Irish businesses will have better access to the EU single market than Scottish businesses. Shamefully, this Government will not publish an economic assessment of the Prime Minister’s deal, but we know from independent research that it will hit Scotland hard. Will the Minister therefore ask the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, who is sitting next to him, whether Scotland’s man in the Cabinet demanded that Scotland’s businesses be given the same access to the single market and customs union as Northern Irish business, or did he sit there meekly, abandoning them to their fate?
Mr Hurd
The Government have published an impact assessment in relation to the proposed withdrawal agreement, and we have rehearsed the arguments about the arrangements in Northern Ireland. These are Northern Ireland questions, and I am sure that the Secretary of State has heard the hon. Gentleman’s comments.
Social Economy
Nick Hurd Excerpts(10 years, 2 months ago)
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Each debate is chaired by an MP from the Panel of Chairs, rather than the Speaker or Deputy Speaker. A Government Minister will give the final speech, and no votes may be called on the debate topic.
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Hazel Blears (Salford and Eccles) (Lab)
It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Havard, in slightly altered circumstances than would normally be the case in Westminster Hall. I hope that this debate will be a cross-party event with a lot of different perspectives offered on the subject and, although it will not be entirely consensual, I am sure that many points will unite us when speaking about the social economy. I hope that the fairly adversarial nature of the seating will not condition our behaviour and that the debate will be consensual.
First, I welcome the Minister to his post. This is my first opportunity, and the first opportunity for a number of colleagues, to debate with him. I am sure that he is already finding that the areas of his responsibility are surrounded by people of great good will, innovation and creativity. It is an exciting, dynamic area of policy and I know that he will enjoy it and that he will guide and shape it.
Secondly, but equally importantly, I pay tribute to the former Minister for Civil Society at the Cabinet Office, the hon. Member for—
Mr Nick Hurd (Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner) (Con)
As I speak, phones will be ringing in garages across Salford with anxious Volvo drivers seeking reassurance that their cars were not serviced by the right hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears). I do not know how good a mechanic she is, but she is a brilliant politician. I congratulate her on securing a debate on a subject about which we are both passionate, on her track record of supporting social enterprise for many years, on keeping my feet to the fire when I was a Minister and on sending a strong signal to the builders of the social economy that there was strong cross-party support and interest in sustaining the work.
For me, the debate is about two important things. First, how do we find better solutions to the social challenges that undermine this country and carry unacceptable costs—both financial and, more importantly, human? Secondly, as the right hon. Lady herself asked, how do we help British business to sharpen its competitive edge in the modern world, to build trust—a crucial but fragile ingredient of value creation—and to generate social value? Those two opportunities come together within the social economy.
I want to make three brief points to complement what the right hon. Lady said. First, there is a substantial global movement here. We must seize the moment. We spend a lot of time in this place observing the waves on the surface of the ocean, which means that we sometimes miss or are slow to pick up on some of the substantial shifts in the current beneath the surface. What we are discussing today is such a shift in terms of how we think about the economy and its future. I see stars realigning across the three pillars of our society in a way that I have not seen in my lifetime, which suggests that people are now prepared to think and work in different ways—above all, critically, in government.
Government has to change. Across the world, Governments in developed nations face the same challenges of economic recovery—not only getting economies going, but ensuring the fairness of the recovery and its sustainability. There are also the issues of how we shape the competitive future of our countries and, as the right hon. Lady mentioned, how on earth we meet the public’s demand for better public services when we have substantially less public money. We are only halfway through the cuts, whoever wins the next election—let us be clear about that.
As John Micklethwait and Adrian Wooldridge said in their excellent latest book “The Fourth Revolution”, countries in the developed world face the same challenges in the global race to redesign government. The greatest political challenge over the next decade is fixing government. In this country, government has to work in different ways; gradually, that penny is beginning to drop, at the central Government level and at the local authority level, but it is hard, because we operate in a risk-averse environment. Doors and minds are open to doing things in different ways, however, and that has simply not been the case for the previous 25 years.
Furthermore, as the right hon. Lady said so powerfully, social attitudes to business are changing at the same time. In a transparently connected world, values matter much more to business. How businesses behave matters much more, and that will arguably be a source of competitive advantage in future. More and more of us are choosy as consumers about who we do business with; more and more of us, as savers and investors, are choosy about whom we invest in.
To correct the right hon. Lady, I should say that there are social ISAs at the moment, in response to that trend, and the socially responsible investment market is worth trillions of dollars now that savers are becoming more discerning. Employees in a tight labour market are clearly much more discerning, too, and want to feel prouder of where they work. We hope that commissioners, people spending public money, will also be sending strong signals to the market about the competitive advantage potential of being able to demonstrate social value.
No more powerful sign of social change is evident than in the surveys of young people and the generation coming through at the moment. Survey after survey tells us the same thing: coming through now is one of the most socially responsible, entrepreneurial generations that this country has ever seen, with different attitudes to the workplace, to businesses and to what their place in society is. The young generation will underpin the social economy.
The right hon. Lady talked about one in three start-ups in Europe being social; in this country, 15% of SMEs are social enterprises—15% and growing. There is not only change in government and in social attitudes to businesses, to which business is responding, but the social sector is having to change its attitudes as it is buffeted by change on all sides, which carries both risk and opportunity. Now, minds are much more open to working in partnership with different types of organisation and to seeking different funding models, such as social investment.
I see the stars realigning in a way that gives a fantastic engine to the move towards a more social economy and more collaborative models, which must be part of the future.
Mr Sheerman
The hon. Gentleman is making an excellent speech and I am absolutely rapt. As he was speaking, it came back to me that we are sometimes a little precious—not him personally, but those in the social economy. A lot of entrepreneurs have come to life through social enterprise. They may stay with social enterprise, but they get their training and become successful private entrepreneurs. There is a big move between the two.
Mr Hurd
The hon. Gentleman anticipates exactly my next point. What is so exciting is the signal that we can send about supporting social entrepreneurship across the sectors. He mentioned the private sector, but one of the things that excited me most in office was the evidence of the entrepreneurship within the public sector, unlocked by the opportunity to spin out and run mutuals inside the public sector. There are fantastic examples in the constituency of the right hon. Member for Salford and Eccles. It is amazing what happens when we give people the freedom to pursue their dreams as what I define as social entrepreneurs—people who run their own businesses spun out of the public sector. Those values and instincts and that creativity exist across all the sectors of society and need to be nourished.
This is a big idea whose time has come, with the opportunity for collaboration to unlock the spirit of innovation and social entrepreneurship in the country. This country is built on our success in innovating in the process of wealth creation and in the building of our cultural heritage. That is less evident in the area of social innovation, but this is the time to unlock that potential.
Secondly, to reinforce the point made by the right hon. Lady, we lead the world in this area. One of the things that struck me most in office was how many visits I got from representatives from a bizarre range of countries, from Canada to the country that I still call Burma, who said, “We notice what you are doing. We are interested in social enterprise and social investment, and for us the place to come and learn is Britain.” We must not surrender that lead, because if we are right about the movement, it will be a source of competitive advantage for this country as we think about how we shape the future.
My third and final point is to reinforce the right hon. Lady’s message to our Front Benchers—both individuals have earned a great deal of respect and admiration. Let us seize the moment and not lose momentum. I am conscious that for the two gentlemen who aspire to be the next Prime Minister of this country the agenda is full and cluttered, which is daunting, but let those of us who believe in this continue to make noise, saying, “This matters. We have something very valuable and important growing in this country. We must nourish it.”
The right hon. Lady is quite right. We had to compromise to take the Public Services (Social Value) Act 2012 through Parliament. Respectable voices inside Government were saying, “Be careful here, because we are trying to make the procurement process leaner and more efficient, so what are we doing cluttering it up?”, so we compromised. No voices in the procurement business now say that the Act gets in the way.
Now is the time to look seriously at whether we extend the scope. Such a review needs to happen, but in parallel with a fundamental approach to raise the quality of commissioning throughout the public sector and a modest investment in the kind of learning networks that bring people together and make them ask, “How can we make best use of this?” That is how the system can be helpful. Things such as the Commissioning Academy, which is low cost and high value, are very important.
I also support the right hon. Lady’s comments about the pursuit of other dormant assets. So much time was spent in setting up Big Society Capital and making the system work with the reclaim fund, that we did not have the time to start conversations about pursuing other assets, in particular in the insurance industry. However, they are there, so let us go for them. Let us start those conversations now, because that is money sitting on the table.
I make a plea for cross-party support for the important public sector mutual movement. We must continue to send signals and say, “It is okay, we will support you in this process.”
On social impact bonds, let us be clear that we are at the bottom of the S-curve of the development of that instrument, which is so important because it creates space for social innovation in a system that is risk-averse. They are clunky, take too long and are too expensive to set up, and we have to change all that, but let us be clear that we have only just started and are at the bottom of the S-curve. We now need to find a different gear of ambition to make many more of those things in the marketplace, so that we can test whether the instrument is as valuable an influence as we think it is.
My appeal is fundamental: let us keep the level of ambition, because through that agenda we have the potential to improve so many more lives and to find better solutions to problems that impose unacceptable cost—both financial and human—on this country.
Chris White
I thank the right hon. Lady for her intervention. Peter Holbrook, amazingly enough, has the one signed copy of my Act. What he has done with it goodness only knows. I agree that there are many players in this area, because of the alliance, Social Enterprise UK, and all the charitable bodies and their umbrellas. Our local political representatives are key players and do fantastic work on the ground supporting their constituents. I believe we should make these things more accessible to them. I would not denigrate anything they do, and certainly not as a former councillor myself, but we are coming towards local elections. Whatever party people support, they should be able to put in their manifestos what they are doing to help local community organisations.
Mr Hurd
I support that point on accessibility. The right hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Hazel Blears) is right: if I stopped people in Ruislip high street and asked what they knew about local social enterprises, I would get even more blank expressions than usual. Would my hon. Friend join me in supporting quite simple initiatives, such as the Buy Social Directory and the imminent Social Saturday initiative? They are designed to give people more information about the social enterprises on their doorstep. Giving them access to what is going on in their area seems to be a simple step we can take and support.
Chris White
I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention. Days such as Social Saturday will create great momentum. It is something we should consider having yearly. I still maintain that we have work to do. As suggested, one piece of work is to put these issues strongly and firmly in our manifestos, so that these organisations can feel confident that they will continue to have the support and investment they need, whoever forms the next Government.
Oral Answers to Questions
Nick Hurd Excerpts(10 years, 4 months ago)
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Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)
3. What steps he is taking to ensure the accuracy of Government statistics.
The Minister for Civil Society (Mr Nick Hurd)
The UK Statistics Authority was established to promote and safeguard official statistics for the public good. As the hon. Gentleman knows, it is an independent body directly accountable to Parliament, and it is responsible for assessing and monitoring the accuracy of Government statistics against the code of practice for official statistics.
Kelvin Hopkins
Estimates by the TUC and others of uncollected taxes—the so-called tax gap—are some three times higher than those figures given by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs and the Government. Are the Government simply massaging those figures downwards to disguise how appalling they really are?
Mr Hurd
I would like to think that this Government, unlike the previous one, are not in the business of massaging statistics. The central point is that we now have, as a result of the lack of credibility of statistics under the previous Government, the official UK Statistics Authority, which does an excellent job in safeguarding the integrity of public statistics.
Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD)
The Nomis website publishes estimates of unemployment by constituency using the annual population survey, which itself uses a sample of under 300 people of working age per constituency. Does the Minister agree that it is incumbent on the publishers of local statistics based on national surveys to assist the users of those statistics in understanding the confidence intervals, which can swamp tiny sample sizes?
Mike Kane (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)
9. What steps he is taking to maintain the level of youth services provision.
The Minister for Civil Society (Mr Nick Hurd)
We are supporting the voluntary sector in offering new opportunities for young people through programmes such as the National Citizen Service. In addition, we will be offering practical support to local authorities who want to deliver high-quality new services in an innovative way, for example by access to our £10 million support programme for mutuals.
Pat Glass
Youth services have largely disappeared under this Government and have been replaced by the National Citizen Service, which, despite the accolades that it receives in the House from Ministers, is turning into little more than an extra six weeks’ holiday for students and young people who really do not need it. What are the Government doing about youth services for the most vulnerable and those at greatest risk?
Mr Hurd
I am afraid that the hon. Lady is talking rubbish about the National Citizen Service. I refer her to the independent research which shows exactly the benefits that it gives to young people, which is why more and more of them are signing up to take part in it. She is right that it has been too easy to cut youth services at local level. There are no easy choices, but we are actively working with local authorities who want to commission in innovative ways to help them to deliver better with less.
Mike Kane
The BBC has revealed that in real terms the amount spent on youth services has fallen by 36% in the past two years. Does the Minister agree with Fiona Blacke, the chief executive of the National Youth Agency, that in the areas with the greatest cuts, the opportunities for young people are being significantly diminished?
Mr Hurd
The Labour party continues to be in denial about why there were cuts in the first place. I have said very publicly that we are concerned that youth services have been too easy to cut, in part because there is insufficient evidence about the value of the work that they do in terms of outcomes. We want to work with commissioners to change that, but at the same time we are actively investing from the centre to create new opportunities for young people, not just through the NCS but by backing the scouts and other uniformed organisations and the organisations that have formed part of the Step Up to Serve campaign.
Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD)
Does my hon. Friend accept that well-directed youth work is a vital part of crime prevention and as such saves money and prevents victimisation in the long run?
Mr Hurd
I agree wholeheartedly. The Government are a strong supporter of the value of high-quality, well-structured youth services, which is why we are working with local authorities to help in their difficult task of delivering more with less, as well as supporting the voluntary sector to offer more opportunities for young people to develop.
Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con)
13. Hundreds of young people in my constituency have enjoyed the team spirit, camaraderie and community projects that the National Citizen Service brings. Will the Minister assure the House that even more NCS programmes will be rolled out this summer?
Mr Hurd
Yes, because young people want them. This summer the 100,000th young person will take part in NCS; 98% of young people would recommend it to their friends. There is a fantastic buzz around it because young people recognise that it is a fantastic use of their time and they get so much out of it.
Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)
8. What recent progress his Department has made on supporting social enterprises.
The Minister for Civil Society (Mr Nick Hurd)
We are doing a great deal to support the growth of social enterprises. We are making it easier for them to access finance through social investment and to deliver public services through the Public Services (Social Value) Act 2012, and through a wide range of capacity-building support.
Jeremy Lefroy
Will my right hon. Friend update the House on the progress of Big Society Capital, in particular the provision of capital to smaller, local community social enterprises, which may need thousands or tens of thousands rather than millions?
Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con)
T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
Michael Dugher (Barnsley East) (Lab)
An excellent report published last week by the Centre for Regional Economic and Social Research at Sheffield Hallam university on the state of the coalfields confirmed that the most deprived areas of the country have the lowest concentration of voluntary sector organisations. On top of that, we know that local authorities in those same areas are suffering disproportionate cuts—a double whammy for the poorest parts of the country. Why are the Government not doing enough specifically to help the voluntary sector in the poorest parts of the country?
The Minister for Civil Society (Mr Nick Hurd)
Well, we are. We set up a programme, Community First, which is delivering neighbourhood grants in the 600 most deprived wards in the country. We have also worked closely with the National Council for Voluntary Organisations and the Big Lottery Fund to use the European funding structures to unlock £500 million-worth of funding for social inclusion in some of the most deprived communities in the country. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will welcome that.
Stephen Metcalfe (South Basildon and East Thurrock) (Con)
T2. I welcome the work that this Government have done to encourage volunteering, especially through the Points of Light programme. When will my constituents, who work so hard, be recognised through this programme?
Mr Hurd
With more and more people volunteering, it is right that we should do more to recognise and celebrate their great work. Points of Light is a new daily award from the Prime Minister. Today he is announcing the 50th winner. I would welcome recommendations from all constituencies, including South Basildon and East Thurrock.
Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab)
T3. City Year recruits 18 to 25-year-olds to volunteer as mentors and tutors in schools in deprived areas. They have a proven track record of tackling educational under-attainment and developing young people to become more employable and more engaged citizens. Will the Minister consider recognising a full-time year of voluntary service as a new pathway for young people, as a transition between education and employment, by giving it a status that will ensure that young people have confidence that their commitment is publicly recognised?
Mr Hurd
Like many Members across the House, I am a huge supporter of City Year. The Cabinet Office has backed it with a substantial grant and it is part of a wider coalition of organisations that got together to structure the Step Up to Serve campaign, which is supported by all three party leaders and led by the Prince of Wales and which aims to double the number of young people involved in volunteering. I hope the hon. Gentleman can welcome that.
Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con)
T4. As part of their long-term economic plan, this Government have saved £1.2 billion by rationalising the Government estate. That is the equivalent of 26 Buckingham palaces. What more can be done by local councils and local authorities to replicate such savings?
Big Lottery Fund (Triennial Review)
Nick Hurd Excerpts(10 years, 4 months ago)
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The Minister for Civil Society (Mr Nick Hurd)
On 21 November 2013, as Minister with responsibility for Civil Society, I announced in Parliament through a written ministerial statement, Official Report, column 55WS, commencement of the triennial review of the Big Lottery Fund. I am now pleased to announce the completion of the review.
The review concludes that the functions performed by the Big Lottery Fund are still required and that it should be retained as a non-departmental public body (NDPB). The review also looked at the governance arrangements for the fund in line with guidance on good corporate governance and considered the efficiency and effectiveness of the fund. The report, which has been examined by a challenge group, makes recommendations in this respect.
The full report of the review of the Big Lottery Fund can be found on the gov.uk website and copies have been placed in the Libraries of both Houses.
Oral Answers to Questions
Nick Hurd Excerpts(10 years, 6 months ago)
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Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)
1. What progress the Government have made on implementing its big society policy.
The Minister for Civil Society (Mr Nick Hurd)
We have given communities more power through the Localism Act 2011. We have invested in volunteering, which has risen after years of decline. We have invested to support charitable giving, which has held up in difficult times. Some 70,000 young people have taken part in the National Citizen Service. I am very proud that this country leads the world in supporting social enterprise and investment.
Graham Jones
That is not a situation I recognise in Hyndburn, I have to say. Archbishop Vincent Nichols recently said:
“The Big Society hasn’t helped… Charity isn’t an alternative to public service… there are now families with nothing”.
Will the Minister finally admit that the big society project is in fact a big failure?
Mr Hurd
No, I will not. I think the cynics have got it entirely wrong. Some of the changes we have introduced are irreversible, not least in terms of giving communities more power and information, which they are not going to give back. We recognise that charities are going through a very difficult time, like lots of organisations, but this Government are actively supporting them to help them to adapt and improve their resilience, while Labour MPs continue to scaremonger.
Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con)
What plans does the Minister have for the National Citizen Service this summer?
Mr Hurd
I thank my hon. Friend for her long-standing support for the National Citizen Service and all initiatives to encourage young people to get involved in volunteering. We are enormously ambitious for the National Citizen Service this year. As I have said, to date over 70,000 young people have taken part, and we expect the same number to take part this year alone.
Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab)
Will the Minister explain why the newly announced £40 million fund to help struggling charities will only come into force in 2015? Many charities are saying that they will not survive another six months because of this Government’s policies. Is this not a case of too little, too late?
Mr Hurd
No, I do not accept that. The hon. Lady ignores the fact that the Government have already provided almost £200 million in transition funding for front-line charities and infrastructure organisations to help them through difficult times. We have managed to secure some additional money in the 2015-16 Budget to support more transition work, particularly for middle-sized charities, which we think is needed. She is ignoring all the help we have given so far.
Steve Baker (Wycombe) (Con)
Our country once enjoyed a rich and vibrant tapestry of organisations between charity and the state, such as co-operatives, friendly societies and other mutuals. Does the Minister share my dismay that the left has abandoned its own traditions?
Mr Hurd
Those are not of course the only traditions that the left has abandoned over the years; it is very hard to see what is left. I am very proud that Government Members are leading the work to encourage more mutualisation, particularly in relation to encouraging people to spin out the services they currently offer inside the public sector, and to offer them and improve them as public sector mutuals.
Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)
2. What his policy is on the outsourcing of civil service jobs.
Mr Graham Allen (Nottingham North) (Lab)
3. What progress his Department has made on developing social finance.
The Minister for Civil Society (Mr Nick Hurd)
I am proud that Britain leads the world in developing social investment. The hon. Gentleman is a tireless champion of its power to support early intervention. A new tax relief has gone live this month. There are now 15 social impact bonds in operation. I hope that he will welcome our announcement today of two more funds to support social impact bonds, which we believe will generate better outcomes for young people who are at risk of not being in education, employment or training.
Mr Allen
There is an important judgment from the European Court of Justice today on the Robin Hood tax, which will have a big influence on civil society and the big society. However, that will be minuscule compared with the potential impact of a serious social impact bond market on early intervention, which the Minister mentioned, and on council projects. It is two years since Big Society Capital was established, so is it not time to review the working of the Act that set it up to see whether we can take it further?
Mr Hurd
I am very proud of Big Society Capital as an institution. I have seen the impact that its investments are having on the ground. It has committed £149 million and has done important work to build this important market. It is just two years in and is about to publish its second annual report. We are always looking to ensure that it succeeds. I am more than happy to pass that question on to the Big Society Trust, which is its governing body, and get its response.
Mr Gary Streeter (South West Devon) (Con)
Are not credit unions a great example of social finance, and is it good news that there are now 500 of them in this country, not least a new one in Plymstock in my constituency? More than 1 million Brits are now members of a credit union. Are the Government pleased about that?
Mr Hurd
Credit unions are an enormously important part of the landscape in communities around the country, and many do extraordinarily valuable work. We are looking at the degree to which we can support their capitalisation. They are fragmented and under-capitalised, and we are discussing with Big Society Capital, and others, what ideas are out there for using the power of social investment to strengthen the capitalisation of that important movement.
Mr Jack Straw (Blackburn) (Lab)
I was the Minister who got going the first social impact bond at Peterborough. Would the Minister like to say what the experience of that first experiment has been?
Mr Hurd
I wholly acknowledge the role that the right hon. Gentleman played in that groundbreaking social impact bond at Peterborough. Its early results are extremely encouraging, and reoffending among short-sentence prisoners who receive support through the bond has fallen by 11%, while nationally that figure has risen by 10%. It was the first ice-breaking social impact bond, and I think its impact on the wider movement and the work happening across the country, with at least 15 social impact bonds live, cannot be overestimated.
Sir Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)
Does my hon. Friend agree that we all need to do more to make voluntary organisations and charities aware of the benefits of the growing social investment market of Big Society Capital, and of the Public Services (Social Value) Act 2012?
Mr Hurd
I wholly agree and I am clear about what we are trying to do. Over time—it will take some time—we are trying to build a third pillar of funding for our social sector to sit alongside philanthropy and the public sector, and we lead the world in doing that. The Public Services (Social Value) Act was groundbreaking legislation that requires commissioners to think very seriously about how they can maximise the social and environmental benefit of every pound of public money they spend.
Stella Creasy (Walthamstow) (Lab/Co-op)
4. What steps he is taking to tackle cybercrime.
Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab)
6. What steps he is taking to encourage volunteering.
The Minister for Civil Society (Mr Nick Hurd)
We have created hundreds of thousands of new volunteering opportunities, not least through the National Citizen Service. We have invested in the important infrastructure that supports volunteering and we have reformed barriers such as Criminal Records Bureau checks. I hope that the hon. Gentleman will welcome the fact that volunteering has risen after years of decline.
Dan Jarvis
Will the Minister join me in congratulating Margaret Hayes, who recently worked her final shift after 31 years of volunteering to support patients at Barnsley hospital? Volunteers such as Margaret make a much valued contribution to our society, and it is welcome that the number of volunteers is increasing. What more can the Minister do to encourage volunteering among people of all ages and backgrounds around the whole country?
Mr Hurd
I wholly support that vision. It is massively important to the country. I join the hon. Gentleman in recognising the work of that extraordinary individual and remind him that the Prime Minister has launched a new initiative that will announce daily the Points of Light awards to reward outstanding volunteers. I ask Members of Parliament on both sides of the House to think about nominating individuals in their constituencies for that award.
Mr Brooks Newmark (Braintree) (Con)
One way in which we can encourage volunteering is to thank those volunteers who work hard. Will the Minister join me in thanking the volunteers in my constituency at the play and resource centre PARC, Braintree Foyer, the Archer centre and Rethink Mencap? Does he agree that it is the volunteers who work for the various charities and community groups in all our constituencies who form the backbone of our society and deserve our collective thanks?
Mr Hurd
I wholly endorse that and join my hon. Friend in his recognition of and congratulations to his local volunteers. Few Governments have done more to actively encourage volunteering, and I reiterate my encouragement to colleagues to step forward and nominate individuals for the Points of Light awards.
Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)
7. Whether he plans to transfer any civil service jobs overseas.
Nicola Blackwood (Oxford West and Abingdon) (Con)
T6. Brilliant social enterprises such as the Oxford student hub propeller project can lead the way in finding innovative solutions to social problems, but they struggle to find sustainable funding. Can the Minister tell me what progress is being made on increasing the availability of social impact bonds, which could make all the difference?
The Minister for Civil Society (Mr Nick Hurd)
My hon. Friend is entirely right: we have fantastic social enterprises in this country and they need easier access to capital. This country leads the world in developing social investment. Today we are launching two new funds that will unlock more social impact bonds to deliver what we expect to be better results for thousands of young people at risk of becoming NEET.
Shared Services Connected Ltd
Nick Hurd Excerpts(10 years, 6 months ago)
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The Minister for Civil Society (Mr Nick Hurd)
It is a great pleasure, Mr Owen, to serve under your chairmanship, I think for the first time. I congratulate the hon. Member for Sheffield Central (Paul Blomfield) on securing the debate and on the sincerity with which he has presented his arguments on behalf of concerned constituents. I totally understand where that comes from; if I were in his shoes, I would probably utter similar sentiments.
The hon. Gentleman endeared himself to me by opening with a quote from the Prime Minister. Of course, the Prime Minister was right in saying that jobs are coming back. I do not have the statistics for Sheffield, Newport or other constituencies represented on the Opposition Benches, but it is undeniable that since the 2010 election, more than 1 million private sector jobs have been created in this country. We have record numbers of people in work.
Mr Hurd
I was putting the debate into a wider context, which I hope the hon. Member for Sheffield Central would welcome, of vibrant job generation in this country. It does not just matter for statistics; it offers hope and security for people across the country. When the Prime Minister talks about jobs coming back, he means it. The issue is about restoring the means by which this country can secure its long-term future and competitiveness. The fact that that was entirely absent from the debate is regrettable.
Paul Blomfield
On that specific point, will the Minister note the regional imbalance in the creation of private sector jobs? He might have seen the report two or three weeks ago from the Centre for Cities, which pointed out that so many of the jobs being created are in London and the south-east, sucked away from the rest of the country. I think it said that there have been 217,000 new private sector jobs in London, with a net decline in private sector jobs of 7,500 in my city of Sheffield. The Government have a particular responsibility to address that regional imbalance and not take more jobs away.
Mr Hurd
That is a fair point, which the Chancellor has addressed directly by saying, “Yes, there is some very good news on job creation, but we still face a stubborn underlying challenge on the imbalance in the economy.” That is a fact, reality and challenge that the Government are addressing.
It would nice if we heard some voices from the Opposition Benches that recognised that these problems have been entrenched for a long time and were substantially not addressed by the previous Administration. I am trying to make the point that the broader context is one where the country is beginning to generate jobs again after some difficult years. Part of the reason why we have been able to create jobs is that at the core of the long-term economic plan is a plan to pay down the deficit. It would be nice to have a reality check on the Opposition Benches: that is the environment in which this Government have to work and in which the next Government will have to work, whatever their political colour.
Mrs Glindon
Will the Minister not acknowledge that sustaining jobs is as important as creating jobs in a successful economy? Offshoring these jobs is not about sustaining work in this country. If there is to be job creation, offshoring jobs negates some of that.
Paul Flynn
On a point of order, Mr Owen. Is it in order for a Minister to cast a slur over a Member by claiming that he was not present at the beginning of a debate without giving that Member an opportunity to explain that he was at a Select Committee meeting and that, had he left, it would not have been quorate?
Albert Owen (in the Chair)
The hon. Gentleman has been in Parliament an awfully long time and he knows that that is not a point of order for the Chair. It is up to the Minister whether he gives way to any Member in the Chamber. The Minister indicated that he would not give way to the hon. Gentleman, but he has since done so to other Members.
Mr Hurd
I am trying to stress to the hon. Member for North Tyneside (Mrs Glindon) that the bigger context is job creation throughout the country, which I hope she welcomes and is evidenced in her constituency as well. She makes a valid point about offshoring, to which I will return, because it was at the core of the speech of the hon. Member for Sheffield Central.
My point was that we are in the place where we are in terms of vibrant job creation around the country partly because of the confidence in the business community that there is a plan for economic recovery and that, at the heart of the plan, is a determination to get on top of the public finances. Simply put, that will be the reality for whoever is in power after the next general election, which is acknowledged by the people at the top of the Labour party. The Government therefore have to get serious about where they find savings and efficiencies. For a long time now, including under the previous Government, as highlighted in 2004 by the Gershon review, there has been consistent advocacy for the need and opportunity to consolidate back-office functions throughout government. The belief is that we can deliver between £400 million and £600 million per annum in savings for the taxpayer in such a process, while freeing the civil service to concentrate on its core role of delivering exceptional public services.
Significant public gain is to be had through the pursuit of efficiency, which the previous Administration did not pursue rigorously, despite the words. If any evidence were needed, the Efficiency and Reform Group in the Cabinet Office last year was able to realise £10 billion in savings to the taxpayer through our process. That is £10 billion that does not have to come in cuts to front-line services. It tells us a lot about the attitude of the previous Government to efficiency in the public finances.
Paul Blomfield
Does the Minister acknowledge that that is stretching the definition of efficiency a little? We are simply talking about taking jobs done in proper working conditions by loyal civil servants in the UK and putting them into a cheap labour market in India. That is not efficiency; that is exploiting the labour force.
Mr Hurd
I would like to see some recognition that it is not in the interests of the British taxpayer for there to be duplication or inefficiency in how services are delivered. For some time, and under the previous Administration, there has been widespread acceptance of the opportunity to share services such as HR, procurement, finance and payroll functions, and of the need to consolidate where those services are shared, given the number of centres that were in place. Obviously, in that process there is an ability to deliver efficiency, cost-effectiveness and, I hope, a better service.
There is no dispute about the opportunity—as I said, the debate has been going on for a long time—but the question is whether anyone is prepared to do something about it, and we are. We are delighted that the National Audit Office recognises our progress and, in a report of 31 March, considers that the programme is
“on track with the first shared service centre being outsourced by its target date of March 2013 and the second having a joint venture partner in place before its target date of March 2014.”
It also found
“no major issues with the services offered by”
either of the two independent shared service centres.
As the hon. Gentleman said, the second of the two centres was created in November 2013, when the Government signed an agreement with a private sector partner, Steria Ltd, to create a joint venture to deliver back-office services to 13 Government customers. The resulting company, known as Shared Services Connected Ltd, was formed from a consolidation of some existing shared service centres including the Department for Work and Pensions, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs and the Environment Agency. In addition, in-scope services delivered by UK Shared Business Services Ltd are expected to move across by 2015.
It is important to keep in mind that the model is not a conventional outsourcing one. As the contracts are constructed, the bigger the volume, the lower the unit price goes, so it is in everyone’s interest, whether Government, private sector partners or employees, for the centres to win additional business from other Departments and from the private sector in the UK and overseas. If business grows, and there is an opportunity to grow the business and to recruit more jobs into it, public services can be delivered at lower cost. The taxpayer will share in the upside.
In order to develop SSCL as a world-class services organisation, it formally entered a transformation phase on 31 March 2014, which involves IT harmonisation, offshoring and the adoption of a centre of excellence model, which is considered good practice across the shared services sector. We believe that that will reduce costs, increase efficiency and deliver a consistent performance and an improved customer experience.
As the hon. Gentleman said, the centre of excellence consultation process commenced during March, and following discussions with employees, clients and trade unions, four of the existing eight core sites were selected as centres of excellence. Those are York, Peterborough, Blackpool and Newcastle. Initial proposals were to close the other five sites. However, after consultation and due diligence with clients and employees that was reduced to three—Sheffield, Cardiff and Leeds. Alnwick will remain open, although not as a centre of excellence. The sites selected as centres of excellence were the ones considered most likely to be able to serve existing customers, while also ensuring the sustainable future growth necessary to provide value for money to the taxpayer.
The core of the hon. Gentleman’s concern was exit and re-employment. I listened with concern to some of the points he made, and I undertake to write to those involved to make his concerns clear and seek assurances about the way in which some tough decisions on redundancy are being implemented. I will come back to the hon. Gentleman with my view on the quality of the information I get back.
We believe that SSCL has approached the centre of excellence strategy with some sensitivity to the impact that it will have across the business, sharing plans with employees at the earliest opportunity, undertaking roadshows to explain the implications directly, and briefing employees on the proposals for site closures and the associated consultation process. At the same time, SSCL launched a voluntary exit programme for affected employees. The window for expressions of interest closed on 24 March.
As part of the negotiations associated with the ISSC2 deal, the Cabinet Office and Steria agreed a re-employment protocol with the Department for Work and Pensions, the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, and Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, for those staff members who transferred to SSCL under TUPE arrangements from DWP and DEFRA. That was put in place to try to mitigate the impact of key redundancies associated with the move to the new target operating model. Although that was not mandatory, both parties felt it was important to try to support the staff with continued employment.
The Cabinet is also proactively negotiating re- employment protocols with further Departments and agencies, including the Department for Education and the Office for National Statistics, where there are suitable roles locally. We are confident that we are doing all that we can to support SSCL staff with re-employment, within the confines of TUPE law and Government policy. If I may, I should like to send the hon. Gentleman a follow-up letter with more detail about those processes, to put some assurances behind those words.
The next stage of the SSCL transformation programme is to establish the four centres of excellence. The Alnwick office, previously a DEFRA site, will not be a centre of excellence, but will remain open until June 2015. SSCL hopes to move some NHS shared business services actively to Alnwick, to retain it beyond 2015.
Paul Blomfield
I thank the Minister for his assurances about letters and initiatives. Will the Cabinet Office extend the intentions he outlined across all Departments, and move quickly? There is a limited window, before people lose their jobs, to ensure that there are proper redeployment opportunities across government.
Mr Hurd
We are certainly negotiating re-employment protocols with other Departments and agencies, including DFE and ONS, but perhaps I may clarify the detail in the letter I shall be sending. As the hon. Gentleman said, we all know that any job loss is a personal tragedy for the individual concerned and their family. We want to minimise insecurity connected with that. The process is clearly difficult, and we are as confident as we can be that it is being handled with appropriate sensitivity. However, if the Members of Parliament for the affected constituencies have substantial evidence that that is not the case, we want to know. We will follow up such evidence, because we understand the sensitivities and want to test the assurances we are given.
In this context there is no black and white world; offshoring has been a feature of many successful Government contracts signed during this and the previous Administration, including a joint venture involving NHS shared business services, which created jobs and expanded the number of its offices from two to 13 in the past 10 years. Offshoring is not in itself an absolutely bad thing. I shall certainly contact Reshore UK to make it aware of the hon. Gentleman’s concerns.
Public Bodies (Diversity)
Nick Hurd Excerpts(10 years, 7 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
The Minister for Civil Society (Mr Nick Hurd)
This issue is very important. I congratulate the hon. Member for Feltham and Heston (Seema Malhotra) on bringing it forward for debate today. She is well supported by her colleagues and has a credible track record of interest in this matter. Her well-informed speech has raised a number of interesting points.
I agreed 100% with the hon. Lady’s opening statement that this issue is not just about equality. As she knows well from her background in the private sector, businesses that reflect their customers are much better able to understand their needs and can offer them better services as a result. The same must be true of the public sector. There are about 8,500 people on the boards of our public bodies, which range from large public bodies to small advisory committees. All human life is here, from those who monitor the well-being of prisoners to those who govern great national museums. Board members exert significant influence over our lives. They deal with issues that affect a lot of people and shape the public services that we use.
Public services are there to serve the public—the clue is in the name. They can do that only if they understand the needs and priorities of those they serve and those they lead. The hon. Lady’s point about the NHS was a valid one. It leads to the obvious question of how on earth they can serve the public effectively if they fail adequately to represent the population. That has been a long-standing challenge, as she recognises. I will try to address her points and to set out that, although we are not where we need to be, we are making some progress.
I agree with the hon. Lady totally that it is extremely disappointing that the figures show a recent decrease in the representation of people from black and minority ethnic backgrounds. I hope that the work that the Government have done recently to encourage diversity in public appointments, which I shall explain, will reap the rewards and be reflected in the next set of published figures. However, I share her disappointment on this important matter.
As the hon. Lady suggested, it looks like the Government are making progress on the representation of women on public boards, after years of stagnation. Our challenging aspiration that 50% of new appointments to public bodies should be women is proof of how seriously we take the issue. In the last financial year, only 37% of public board members were women. However, we have seen a positive improvement. In the first six months of this financial year—from April 2013 to September 2013—the figure was 45%. The Government continue to focus on this issue by reaching out to talented women and making it clear that a range of fascinating roles are on offer, and by ensuring that those roles are as accessible as possible to all. I will go into more detail on that.
The hon. Lady did not mention disability, but I would like to say a little about it. The Government’s general approach is that the public appointments process should be open to all, regardless of who they are, and should be designed in a way that ensures that we get the best applicants. For the record, the picture is encouraging. Last year, 5.3% of the appointments and reappointments in which the disability status was known were made to candidates with disabilities. That is part of a consistent upward trend, which I hope she will welcome.
I will make some general points about the Government’s approach before moving on to the specifics. The Government have taken unprecedented steps to open up the public appointments process to new talent. My right hon. Friend the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General has placed this matter at the top of the Government’s agenda, as the hon. Lady acknowledged, and rightly challenges all Departments and public bodies to ensure that their boards have the mix of skills and experience that will make them as effective as possible. The presumption against automatic reappointment of incumbents supports that. We have made the process more transparent to improve access to vacancies. Alongside this, we have placed a new emphasis on ability and skills, rather than prior experience, to ensure that key roles in public bodies are open to the widest field, instead of a narrow merry-go-round of the same old candidates that has been a feature of the system to date.
Seema Malhotra
Will the Minister confirm that there is a way for permanent secretaries to be held to account for their progress? Do they need to report progress, and is that part of any performance review process?
Mr Hurd
The system is independently regulated and I will come on to that. There is more transparency in the process and that is an issue my right hon. Friend the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General has placed at the top of the Government’s agenda. My experience is that this is more actively monitored and more transparent than it has been in the past.
There was a debate on whether the process benefits from independent regulation, overseen by the Commissioner for Public Appointments. I think it does. It is key in supporting the merit principle, rather than other factors that might determine appointments. All panels have an independent member, who for chair appointments will be nominated by the Commissioner for Public Appointments. That is a welcome initiative. The Centre for Public Appointments, which is part of the Cabinet Office, is working across Whitehall, and with the executive search industry, to make practical steps that will help us to open up public appointments to the widest possible pool. I will provide three examples.
First, we are modernising the recruitment process to ensure that adverts are effective and non-exclusive, and that interview panels are diverse and reappointments are made only in cases of utmost necessity. No one seriously disagrees that appointments should not be made on the basis of merit, but talented people often do not apply for public appointments either because they do not know about them, or because they do not recognise what they have to offer. We are placing greater emphasis on ability rather than experience, because we do not want to exclude those who may not yet have acquired board experience but could nevertheless potentially be good board members.
Secondly, there is nothing more off-putting than an unnecessarily long application process, so Departments are increasingly switching to using a straightforward CV and covering letter. We are working to simplify job adverts and are cutting out jargon to appeal to as wide an audience as possible.
Thirdly, we are maximising the use of online and targeted advertising, and social media. Two years ago, the CPA did not even have a website, let alone a Twitter account. Now the former has more than 20,000 visits a month and the latter has 1,600 followers. These are sensible measures and independent regulation is important.
On the representation of women and BME communities, progress has been made, particularly in relation to women. The rise of women in the public sector during the 20th-century was agonisingly slow. We should not forget that until 1947, women in the civil service were still expected to resign when they married. They earned less than men into the 1950s. Indeed, when Dame Mary Smieton was appointed as permanent under-secretary at the Department for Education in 1953—only the second woman to reach this grade—she was paid the same as a man. It would be nice to think that that was because her Department was an early advocate of equal pay—it was not—but the Treasury had not worked out a women’s rate of pay at that grade because it did not think that it would ever need to. This is where we have come from. Thankfully, much has changed and continues to improve, both in the civil service, where 47% of employees are currently women, and across the wider public sector, where women continue to shatter glass ceilings. For example, the RAF has recently appointed its second female Air Vice-Marshal.
Significant areas for improvement remain. As the hon. Lady acknowledged, perhaps foremost among them is the number of women on public sector boards. Women remaining a minority in the boardroom—or worse, where all-male boards persist—becomes more and more of an anachronism every year that passes. In the last financial year, only 37% of public board members were women. I believe that transparency is one of the best ways to raise performance. This was the first year that the Government published their own statistics on the general diversity of appointments, something I hope the hon. Lady welcomes.
Ms Abbott
The Minister is of course the second generation of Hurd to serve in this House, but we know he is there on merit alone and we all believe in merit. However, does he not believe that, in 21st-century Britain, it is very important for public boards and the top of the public sector to look like Britain?
Mr Hurd
I hesitate to correct the hon. Lady, because the correction will not help my case, but I am actually the fourth successive generation of my family to serve in the House. However, I am increasingly, and thankfully, an anachronism. The hon. Lady’s point is entirely valid.
The issue of transparency is particularly important. The message that I am trying to convey to the hon. Member for Feltham and Heston, and to other Members, is that we are making some progress. In the first six months of the current financial year, the number of women on boards rose to 45%. That constitutes real progress.
Seema Malhotra
I can inform the House that I am the first generation of my family to enter politics.
May I ask the Minister to return to the specific point about aspirations and targets? The last Government had targets relating to gender, ethnicity and disability for new appointments, whereas under the present Government only gender seems to remain, albeit as an aspiration. Was there a reason for the removal of the other two targets? Can the Minister shed any light on that?
Mr Hurd
I sincerely hope that the hon. Lady will not be the last generation of her family in this place. I would not wish her to carry the burden that I carry.
As the hon. Lady probably knows, the present Administration are not particularly keen on targets. I shall provide a more detailed response to her question at a later stage, but I will say in response to what she said about the aspiration relating to women that I think that aspiration is fine as long as progress is made towards the aim of the aspiration, which is what I have argued that we are doing. I hope that the hon. Lady welcomes that. We are certainly not resting on our laurels. The public sector is doing better than the private sector, but I do not think that anyone considers the current figures to be satisfactory. We maintain our aspiration that 50% of new public appointees should be women, and we will continue to publish the figures every six months. We want them to continue to rise. Transparency is a new element. As we know, it is a great driver of behaviour and keeps people’s feet to the fire.
Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)
Does the Minister agree that one of the things that targets, and indeed aspirations, do is make people take action to meet them? Advertising in certain places often is not enough. This is about actively training people, educating people, and seeking people to fill those roles, rather than passively waiting for them to come forward.
Mr Hurd
I have some sympathy with that view, but I would not underestimate the strength of the new dynamics that we have introduced. There is a clear message from the top that this matters, and there is independent regulation of the competitive process. I have already described some of the things that we have done which we think will make it easier to reach out to people, and to remove barriers and obstacles. We have also made the process more transparent. In my experience as a Minister, the transparency factor is much more powerful than some arbitrary target with no transparency in regard to progress towards it The system knows that this matters and that it is being scrutinised—debates such as this are helpful in that respect—and we will be judged against progress towards the number for which we are aiming, whether it is set as an aspiration or a target.
I do not want to ignore the important issue of BME representation. I will be frank, and say that we are disappointed by the slip-back in the numbers. In their public appointments diversity strategy, published this year, the Government said:
“This is not just about gender; diversity is about encouraging applications from candidates with the widest range of backgrounds.”
It is regrettable that last year the number of successful BME candidates fell from an average of about 7.9% of appointments and reappointments since 2001-02 to 5.5% last year. We are disappointed about that, because it matters to us. We are hopeful that this will prove to be an anomalous year, and that the work that the Cabinet Office and the Commissioner for Public Appointments have been doing to increase diversity in public appointments will reap rewards in the next set of published figures, which will be transparent and will be monitored by the House and outside.
The Commissioner for Public Appointments regulates the competition for many of these posts. He also has a statutory responsibility to promote diversity and equality of opportunity in the procedures for making public appointments. He is actively concerned about the issues that have been raised today and he has already engaged in activity to try to improve the position. For example, he has run a series of workshops for different under-represented groups to identify the challenges to increasing diversity in appointments and will be coming up with practical suggestions to help Departments break down these barriers in the future. I am looking forward to the outcomes of this work and undertake to share them, as far as I can, with the hon. Member for Feltham and Heston, knowing and respecting, as I do, her strong interest in this area.
The public sector needs world-class leadership if it is to continue delivering the services that people rely on, and that means having diversity on the boards of public bodies—people with clarity of vision, who can make decisions, and rise above process to get things done. It needs innovators and people who understand the communities we are trying to serve. It needs people who can open up the system to new ways of doing things, who are prepared to take risks without being reckless, and who are willing to take responsibility and to learn and grow.
I do not think there has ever been a time in the public sector when this need to open up the doors to fresh thinking and people who bring different perspectives and insights and different knowledge has been more important. There are already great examples of diverse leaders making a significant contribution on public boards, but we are very aware that there is much more we can do and that is why diversity is genuinely at the heart of our public appointments strategy.
Question put and agreed to.
Oral Answers to Questions
Nick Hurd Excerpts(10 years, 7 months ago)
Commons ChamberRead Full debate Read Hansard Text Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Steve Brine (Winchester) (Con)
3. What the level of charitable giving was in the last year for which figures are available.
The Minister for Civil Society (Mr Nick Hurd)
Three quarters of British people give money to charity, and on that measure, we are the most generous of all the G8 countries. Collectively, in 2010-11 we gave £16.5 billion to charity through direct and indirect donations, and with active Government support. I am delighted to say that the amount of giving appears to have remained constant since 2010, despite difficult times. I am sure that that is something that the whole House will welcome.
Steve Brine
Indeed it is. The Minister will be aware of the good things that we can achieve through “round the pound” schemes, and I know that he, like me, is a fan of the organisation Pennies. Will he therefore back my “Winchester penny” idea? The aim is to support the third sector in my constituency by encouraging local businesses, including those that are part of national chains, to join Winchester’s efforts to ensure that we keep it local and support those who are most in need.
Mr Hurd
I wholeheartedly support my hon. Friend’s initiative. I know that he is a great champion of the voluntary sector in Winchester. We are great fans of Pennies, which is one of the organisations that we have supported through our innovation in giving fund, and which is modernising the way in which we can make micro-donations. I am delighted that my hon. Friend has launched his initiative in Winchester. I congratulate him on his leadership, and congratulate all the businesses that he has so far succeeded in signing up to what seems an excellent initiative.
Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)
More and more younger donors are choosing to make their charitable donations by text, yet this group of people are being woefully failed in terms of Gift Aid. Will the Minister look into this, so that Gift Aid support is available for donors who give by text?
Mr Hurd
I wholly understand the hon. Lady’s point. People are giving in new ways, harnessing the power of new technology. One of the challenges we face is how we can help to make giving easy and compelling in the modern age. She will be aware that we work very hard with our colleagues at the Treasury to try to modernise Gift Aid, such as by making it easier to claim Gift Aid on small donations, and she will be aware that there is an active consultation on how we modernise Gift Aid in the digital world, including how we can harness it to support text-giving.
Mr Nicholas Brown (Newcastle upon Tyne East) (Lab)
4. What his policy is on the inclusion of people with different political points of view on public bodies.
Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)
5. What assessment he has made of the level of savings resulting from procurement and commercial reform across central Government since May 2010; and if he will make a statement.
The Minister for Civil Society (Mr Nick Hurd)
Through a range of very overdue commercial and procurement reforms across central Government, the efficiency and reform group set up by the Minister for the Cabinet Office has delivered savings of £3.75 billion in 2010-11, a further £5.5 billion in 2011-12 and an additional £10 billion in 2012-13.
Michael Fabricant
What a shame the Labour party did not do that, and did not mend the roof while the sun was shining. Nevertheless, there are still things that we need to do. My hon. Friend will know that there have been problems at the Ministry of Justice with G4S and Serco. What lessons has he learned from that, to prevent such problems from happening again?
Mr Hurd
I thank my hon. Friend for that question. It is worth reminding the House that the Labour Front Bencher who had the opportunity to realise those savings but failed to deliver them now leads the party. In answer to my hon. Friend’s question, the review that we launched after the Ministry of Justice found irregularities with contracts let under the previous Labour Government underscored the need to strengthen the commercial capability of the civil service, which was long overdue.
Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab)
In Rotherham, small and medium-sized charities are struggling to keep afloat because of moves towards larger-scale procurement. Does the Minister agree that, while such procurement can make savings, it can also cause suffering?
Mr Hurd
This Government are extremely committed to trying to open up the public service so that more, and more diverse, organisations can help us to deliver better value for the taxpayer. That explicitly includes charities, social enterprises and public service mutuals. Yesterday, we announced a publication that updates the House on our progress. We are making progress. We are not yet where I want to be, as this involves a quite profound cultural change, but we are committed to seeing this through.
Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con)
9. What progress he has made on replacing individual Government websites with gov.uk.
The Minister for Civil Society (Mr Nick Hurd)
So far, we have closed an astonishing 1,789 Government websites. We are in the process of moving the remaining 200 on to gov.uk by July 2014. In that process, we are not just saving £42 million but providing, at long last, a single source of consistent, clear information on Government policies.
David Rutley
I welcome the action that my hon. Friend is taking. Will he update the House on the progress that is being made on digitising the apprenticeships application process, and tell us when it will be available on gov.uk?
Mr Hurd
That is a very important service, for reasons that the House understands, and it is a priority for us. We have built a prototype, which will be tested with users over the coming months, and our hope is that a version of this important service will be available from October this year.
Henry Smith
Will my hon. Friend tell us what best practice local authorities can take from this central Government initiative?
Mr Hurd
I thank my hon. Friend for that important question. There is a huge opportunity to harness best practice across local government, and that is why we have partnered with the Local Government Association and other sector partners to establish a local digital alliance. We are collaborating with and supporting local government to design and deliver local public services online. That will allow them to offer value for money and to maximise the opportunities presented by digital tools.
Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)
7. What recent progress the Government have made on implementing the big society.
The Minister for Civil Society (Mr Nick Hurd)
I hope that the hon. Lady will join me in celebrating the fact that volunteering has risen since 2010 after years of decline, and that almost 2,000 young people in Bristol and the immediate surrounding area will have the opportunity to take part in the National Citizen Service this year.
Kerry McCarthy
I am sure that the Government are embarrassed by the fact that food banks have now become by far the most visible sign of the big society in action and have now, de facto, become part of the welfare system. Jobcentres are being told to signpost them, rather than refer people to them, in order to mask their connection with benefit sanctions and delays. Is this a sign of the success of the big society: food banks feeding the starving because of the failures of the welfare system’s safety net?
Mr Hurd
Food banks are an impressive civil society response to a need that, as the hon. Lady knows, emerged before the last general election. We have supported a number of them through our social action fund. I hope that she agrees that they are not a long-term solution to the complex issue of food poverty. There are no simple answers, despite what Opposition Members claim, but a large part of the solution is a recovering economy and the long-overdue reform of the welfare system, and that is what we are delivering.
Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)
Does my hon. Friend agree that the best example of the big society is people power, and that the best example of people power is an in/out referendum on the EU, which those on the Opposition Benches oppose?
Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab)
The Archbishop of Westminster, Civil Exchange and the Centre for Social Justice have all delivered damning verdicts on the Government’s big society recently. They have shown that people are being thrown on to charity, because the state has failed; that there are three times as many charities in affluent neighbourhoods as in deprived ones; and that while volunteering is thriving, it is not in the places where it is needed most. Was it the intention of the big society that some would swim while others would sink?
Mr Hurd
In fact, the excellent Centre for Social Justice report actually highlighted how much progress this Government have made in doing what we said we would do, which is transferring power to people, opening up public services so that more and more organisations can come in to help us to deliver better services, and encouraging social action. As I said, giving in this country has remained constant since 2010 and volunteering has risen, which I hope the hon. Lady would welcome.
Mr David Davis (Haltemprice and Howden) (Con)
T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.
Census (Kashmiri Ethnic Representation)
Nick Hurd Excerpts(10 years, 8 months ago)
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The Minister for Civil Society (Mr Nick Hurd)
I sincerely congratulate the hon. Member for Rochdale (Simon Danczuk) on securing a debate that is arguably overdue. I endorse what he had to say about the important role that the Kashmiri population plays in this country. His speech, powerful as it was, educated me about some of the challenges that that community faces, as I would not know that from my constituency. I very much welcome the opportunity to respond and to report on how the Kashmiri community was recognised in the 2011 census and the current status of planning for the collection of census-type statistics in the future, which is the main thrust of his inquiry.
I should perhaps have prefaced my remarks by explaining that, as the census is a devolved matter in Scotland and Northern Ireland, I will restrict my response therefore solely to the context of the census in England and Wales, which is administered by the Office for National Statistics on behalf of the UK Statistics Authority. In my response, it may help if I summarise the position regarding the collection of information on Kashmiris in the 2011 census. As in the previous census, the 2011 census included a question on ethnic grouping that allowed people to record themselves as Kashmiri.
Mr Hurd
As in the previous census, the 2011 census included a question on ethnic groups that allowed people to record themselves as Kashmiri by using the write-in facility in each of the main ethnic groupings on the census questionnaire. The question was not intended to establish the ethnic composition of the population as it might be understood by, for example, sociologists, but to capture in a common-sense or pragmatic way information on the categories of persons who are likely to be the victims of racial inequality or discrimination.
There is, as the hon. Gentleman knows, a wide range of uses for ethnicity data collected in the census, including the opportunity to enable organisations to meet their statutory obligations on race relations and equal opportunities legislation. There is an element in the formulae for grant allocation by central and local government to inform policy development and monitoring, and to provide public bodies with a better understanding of the communities they serve and hence to inform public service provision.
The list of categories used to collect the ethnicity data was designed to enable the majority of the population to identify themselves in a manageable way. However, there is a practical limit to the number of separate tick box categories that can be included in any single ethnicity question. The question was already the longest on the questionnaire in the 2001 census, and consultation with users and communities during the planning of the 2011 census revealed a demand for yet more specific response categories to be included. In all, there were requests for about 20 new categories including Cornish, Gypsy/Irish Traveller, Arab, Sikh and, in particular, Kashmiri. The Office for National Statistics began consulting users in March 2005 on their requirements for the content of the census, with further consultations in 2006 and 2007 specifically on the topics of ethnicity, national identity, language and religion.
Four submissions of the 2,000 or more received during the 2005 consultation were from the Kashmiri community. Some 78 respondents of the 530 to the subsequent consultation in 2007 sought better information on the Kashmiri population. Of these, 20 were from local government service providers while the rest were from special interest groups and private individuals. The need for better information on Kashmiris was also raised by three attendees at ONS’s census open meetings in March 2007. The case for a Kashmiri tick box to be included in the 2011 census ethnic group question was considered carefully alongside the requests for all the other new categories—many more than could possibly be included on the census questionnaire.
With space for only two new tick boxes, ONS developed a set of principles by which requirements for the new categories could be assessed and prioritised. They covered the strength of need for the information; the lack of alternative sources of information; the clarity and quality of the information collected and acceptability to respondents; and comparability with the 2001 census data. The reasons most often cited for identifying Kashmiris as distinct from Pakistanis, for whom a tick box category was already provided, included, first, identity. Although, as the hon. Gentleman knows better than I do, Kashmiris may self-identify as Pakistani, that may not be their strongest or preferred choice; this is linked to the desire by some Kashmiris for a separate Kashmiri state.
The second reason was resource allocation and service delivery. Local authorities and other organisations may not distribute resources effectively among different parts of the self-reported Pakistani population. Organisations may make assumptions about the need for language translation provision for this population—for example, that Urdu is the only language required for those with low English language proficiency. Thirdly, monitoring inequalities was a consideration. There is a suggestion that Kashmiris may be more disadvantaged than other Pakistanis as a result of their rural background. Their experiences may be masked by those of other Pakistanis when they are combined in the same ethnic grouping. That is the core reason often cited for identifying Kashmiris as distinct from Pakistanis.
The case for a Kashmiri tick box scored well in the ONS prioritisation exercise, but not as well as the two new ethnic group categories that were eventually included: Gypsy/Irish Traveller and Arab. Moreover, there were other ethnic groups of the Indian subcontinent—Sikh, in particular—that respondents would have expected to see if a Kashmiri category had been included. Introducing further tick boxes on the census questionnaire would have meant removing something else or making unacceptable compromises with questionnaire layout and the consequent quality of the information collected.
Following representations and meetings—in particular a meeting at the ONS on 1 May 2009 between senior ONS officials and Kashmiri representatives, including the co-ordinator of the Kashmir national identity campaign, who I understand is one of the hon. Gentleman’s constituents—a Kashmiri research project was undertaken in 2009. A subsequent report was published, with which the hon. Gentleman is no doubt familiar, given his role as treasurer of the all-party group on Kashmir. It is available on the ONS website, the details of which I can provide to him later, should he so wish.
The conclusions of the research project were that the addition of a Kashmiri tick box increased the likelihood of multiple ticking, because people could consider themselves to be Kashmiri and Pakistani, Indian, or some other ethnic group; and the overall rate of multiple response in a postal test had been low, but focus groups and interviews had revealed that the addition of a Kashmiri tick box might cause confusion among respondents over which box to tick.
Many of the arguments for information on Kashmiris are related to the need to ensure that services are provided in the appropriate languages, a point the hon. Gentleman made. Kashmiris speak more than one language from the Kashmir region, and a key concern was that service delivery organisations assume that the only language needed for Pakistanis is Urdu. However, the ONS argued that that information would be better collected from the question on main language that it proposed including in the 2011 census for the first time. That would identify those people whose main language is Pahari or Mirpuri. Service providers would then have the information required to identify the services needed to support the Kashmiri people who would otherwise be disadvantaged because of language difficulties.
Taken as a whole, the programme of consultation with the Kashmiri community, whether through formal advisory groups, public and invited meetings, or the ONS’s innovative community liaison programme, successfully contributed in the end to a high level of support for, and participation in, the census. Although some representatives of the community actively opposed the census, even in the latter stages of the consultation, the community eventually ran its own self-funded publicity campaign to urge Kashmiris to “be counted and get recognised” by using the write-in option on the questionnaire.
The lack of a specific Kashmiri tick box has not prevented information about the Kashmiri community from being available from the 2011 census results. Write-in responses to the ethnic group question were coded according to the main ethnic grouping under which they were recorded, as was done following the 2001 census, and the results have been published. As the hon. Gentleman is no doubt aware, some 25,265 individuals identified themselves as Kashmiri in that way. Almost all wrote in their response under the main “Asian/Asian British” ethnic group, but a small minority identified themselves among some of the other main groups— 125 under the “Mixed/multiple ethnic” group, 105 under the “White” group, and 352 under the “Other” group. The total figure compares with the 23,191 who reported themselves as Kashmiri in the 2001 census.
The hon. Gentleman asked how information on Kashmiris will be collected in any future census. I have to advise him that it is too early to know whether there will be another census in England and Wales in the form that we have previously known, or what questions might be asked, but he can be reassured that any proposals for a question on ethnicity in any future census will be based on a comprehensive programme of consultation and testing to ensure that it will meet users’ requirements and be acceptable and understandable to respondents. He will already be aware of that from the ONS’s answer to his recent parliamentary question.
The UK Statistics Authority established the Beyond 2011 programme in April 2011 to consider the best way of meeting future requirements for population and socio-demographic statistics in England and Wales by assessing the relative merits of a number of alternative approaches. Over the last three years the programme has undertaken extensive research to determine the best way of providing population statistics in future. The results of that work show that there are two potentially viable approaches to census taking in future: once a decade, like that conducted in 2011, but primarily online; and using existing administrative data and compulsory annual surveys. The issues and implications associated with the findings, including descriptions of each approach and its strengths, weaknesses, risks and opportunities, as well as information on the statistics that each method provides, formed the basis for a major public consultation in the latter part of 2013. One response has been received from a private individual that referred to the recognition of people with a Kashmiri heritage, but it did not specifically call for a Kashmiri tick box in the ethnic group question in the next census.
The results of the consultation are being analysed and a full report will be published in spring 2014. It is expected that the national statistician and the UK Statistics Authority will make a recommendation to the Government based on a comprehensive assessment of the research undertaken. It will then be for the Government and Parliament to agree the arrangements for conducting any future census in England and Wales on the basis of that recommendation.
I should stress to the hon. Gentleman that at this point no decisions have been made on the topics or questions that could be considered for any future census. Consultation on the 2011 census questions did not start until 2005, so whatever the form of the next census, the ONS would not expect to start consultations on its content until next year at the earliest. However, in securing this debate and in his speech, the hon. Gentleman has played an important role in ensuring that the voice of the Kashmiri community will be heard loud and clear in that process.
Question put and agreed to.
UK Statistics Authority (Contingencies Fund Advance)
Nick Hurd Excerpts(10 years, 8 months ago)
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The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)
The Cabinet Office wishes to report that a cash advance from the Contingencies Fund has been sought for the UK Statistics Authority (referred to as the Statistics Board in the Statistics and Registration Service Act 2007). The advance is required to meet an urgent cash requirement on services pending parliamentary approval of the 2013-14 supplementary estimate. The supplementary estimate seeks an increase on net cash requirement in order to settle material liabilities arising from a reserve claim. Parliamentary approval for additional resources of seven million, seven hundred thousand pounds (£7,700,000) and additional capital of seven million three hundred thousand pounds (£7,300,000) has been sought in the supplementary estimate for the UK Statistics Authority. Pending that approval, urgent expenditure estimated at five million pounds (£5,000,000) will be met by repayable cash advances from the Contingencies Fund.
The advance will be repaid upon Royal Assent of the Supply and Appropriation Bill.