Public Body Reform

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Monday 7th January 2013 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

Over the Christmas recess, the Cabinet Office published “Public Bodies 2012” which provides an update of the Government’s programme of public body reform and a directory of non-departmental public bodies (NDPBs), as well as summary information on the size and expenditure of the NDPB sector and information on public appointments.

Publication of “Public Bodies 2012” is a positive step for transparency; providing detailed information about every non-departmental public body in a single easy-to-use document. For the first time, the report is being released in parallel with an electronically searchable form of the directory.

“Public Bodies 2012” can be downloaded from the civil service website at: www.civilservice.gov.uk/about/resources/ndpb. Copies have been provided to the Libraries of both Houses.

Oral Answers to Questions

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Wednesday 19th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

Through the innovation fund and the social action fund we are supporting a range of opportunities for retired people to share their skills and experience in their communities, including with young people.

[Tim Loughton]

I wish you, Mr Speaker, and my hon. Friend the Minister the compliments of the season.

Are we not missing a trick, with a vast army of recently retired people, particularly men, who are not yet ready for their cocoa and slippers and have a lot to offer through volunteering, particularly to young teenage boys in “dadless” households? Will he agree to meet me and a number and businesses and youth charities to see how we can scale up some of the best practice?

[Mr Hurd]

My hon. Friend is hugely respected across the House and outside it for his splendid work on behalf of young people over many years. The short answer to his question is yes, I would be delighted to meet him.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

Retired people can work and volunteer with young people in many projects in my constituency, including the intergenerational project in Newtownards in Strangford. One regular problem is the cost of insurance. What help can the Minister give towards insurance costs for those projects?

[Mr Hurd]

The hon. Gentleman raises an important point. We are actively looking at the burden of regulation on volunteers. I am sure he will join me in welcoming the reform of the Criminal Records Bureau process to reduce the number of people who need checks and to make checks more portable. We are actively working with the insurance industry to see what we can do to reduce the liabilities and insurance requirements on volunteers.

[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

4. What progress he has made on his plans for the National Citizen Service.

--- Later in debate ---

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)]

6. What steps he is taking to support smaller charities.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

We are cutting red tape. We are investing in giving and making it easier to claim gift aid. We are investing in supporting volunteering and social investment, and we are gradually making it easier for charities to help us deliver better public services.

[Andy McDonald]

An analysis by the Charities Aid Foundation found that small and medium-sized charities reported deficits of more than £300 million in 2011, and that the situation had markedly deteriorated since 2010. Does the Minister agree that the finances of the voluntary sector, like the economy as a whole, have indeed markedly deteriorated since 2010?

[Mr Hurd]

Official figures from the Charity Commission show that over the last three years the number of charities has grown, and the income for the sector has grown to more than £50 billion, but we all know from our constituencies that there is intense pressure on charities at the moment, particularly small charities, which requires a whole-society response. The Government are doing their bit, as I described in my first answer.

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

I am delighted to hear of the Government’s moves to support smaller charities. One charity that really needs the Government’s support is the Plymouth Brethren, who do so much good and who are facing a despicable attack on their charitable status. What can the Minister say in support for the Plymouth Brethren and their legitimate claims to retain their charitable status?

[Mr Hurd]

I know that feelings run strongly on the issue across the House. The bottom line is that charitable status is decided by the Charity Commission and by the courts in the event of an appeal, which is what is happening in this case. I am sure my hon. Friend supports me in wishing for the process to be resolved as quickly as possible.

[Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/ Co-op)]

14. In Luton, the local authority’s budget is being cut by approximately half over the period of the comprehensive spending review. In turn, funding is being cut for many local charities, such as LAMP—the Luton accommodation and move-on project—a brilliant charity based in my constituency that works with youth homelessness. Is that not the reality of the big society?

[Mr Hurd]

The reality of the big society is that the public are enormously supportive of charities. Seventy-five per cent. of charities receive no funding at all from the state. Where they do, it is incumbent on us all—Members on both sides of the House—to send a very clear message to local authorities, as the Prime Minister has done, that we do not expect to see disproportionate cuts to the sector, and that we need to see the process being delivered in accordance with the compact.

[Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)]

One excellent way to support smaller charities is via the Public Services (Social Value) Act 2012, proposed by my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Chris White) and strongly supported by the Government. Will the Minister update the House on progress with implementation of that radical change in procurement?

[Mr Hurd]

I join my hon. Friend in congratulating our hon. Friend on doing an extraordinary job in taking that private Member’s Bill through Parliament. I can assure him that we are about to issue the necessary guidance to local authorities.

[Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

With one in six charities fearing that they will face closure next year, after huge cuts in Government funding, and after the promised bonanza of new income from Whitehall contracts failed to materialise, how does the Minister hope that his performance will improve next year?

[Mr Hurd]

I put it to the hon. Gentleman that just as Labour Members talked down the economy for three years, now they are talking down the voluntary sector, which has grown over the past three years. I set him a test of seriousness: will he send a stronger message to Labour local authorities, as the Prime Minister has done, about the need to avoid disproportionate cuts on the sector, starting with Derby?

[Eric Ollerenshaw (Lancaster and Fleetwood) (Con)]

7. What recent progress he has made on the Government’s cyber-security strategy and establishing a centre for global cyber-security capacity building.

--- Later in debate ---

[Graham Jones (Hyndburn) (Lab)]

8. What assessment he has made of the merits of establishing an independent body to investigate complaints against charities.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

The Charity Commission investigates complaints where serious mismanagement or maladministration puts the charity’s assets or beneficiaries at significant risk.

Complaints about the services a charity provides should be directed to the charity itself. Lord Hodgson concluded in his review of the Charities Act 2006 that a new body would be inappropriate and unaffordable. I agree with his assessment.

[Graham Jones]

Agapao International, a charity in Haslingden in my constituency, took control of a property that was gifted to it by the community in 1999 through various charitable grants. It is now attempting to sell the property for its own financial gain in order to put right financial mismanagement, and there have been dozens of complaints against the charity. The Charity Commission does not seem to have the powers to investigate. Will the Minister meet me to see what can be done to resolve the issue?

[Mr Hurd]

I am happy to meet the hon. Gentleman, but I understand that the Charity Commission has engaged with the charity, and the bottom line is that its role is to deal with serious misconduct or mismanagement, not to deal with complaints where people are just unhappy with decisions that are taken within the law and within the governance arrangements of the charity.

[Dan Rogerson (North Cornwall) (LD)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Phillips (Sleaford and North Hykeham) (Con)]

T4. My hon. Friend the Member for Salisbury (John Glen) has already raised the plight of the Plymouth Brethren, who are subject to a disgraceful attack by the Charity Commission on their charitable status. During the passage of the Charities Act 2011 through the House, the current Leader of the Opposition gave undertakings that no religious body would lose its charitable status. If the Plymouth Brethren lose the litigation, will my hon. Friend undertake to ensure that the law will be changed?

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

I am sure we all want to see the Plymouth Brethren issue resolved as quickly and cheaply as possible by the Charity Commission and the tribunal. My hon. and learned Friend will be aware that we are reviewing all charity law in co-operation with Lord Hodgson, including whether we should revisit a statutory definition of public benefit.

[Lilian Greenwood (Nottingham South) (Lab)]

T6. Nottingham community and voluntary service’s state of the sector report found that although demand for services is increasing, 69% of voluntary groups are facing reduced income, 52% have been forced to cut staff this year, 76% say they may have to close a service and 36% may close altogether. Is this not a terrible indictment of this Government’s support for the voluntary sector?

[Mr Hurd]

The Labour party has been predicting the collapse of the voluntary sector for three years. In fact it has grown, but it is under huge pressure, which is why we are doing so much to cut red tape, invest in giving, invest in social investment, support volunteering and make it easier for charities to help us to deliver better public services.

[Jessica Lee (Erewash) (Con)]

T5. With the festive season upon us, will my hon. Friend join me in thanking all those at the Erewash council for voluntary service and other voluntary organisations in my constituency who do so much at this time of year to give those in need and those on their own the extra support they need?

[Mr Hurd]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving us all the opportunity to thank the volunteers in our constituencies who do so much to keep things going, who bring people together and make things happen that otherwise would not happen. They deserve all our support and thanks, which is what this Government give.

[Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)]

T7. Does the Minister think that abolishing the Advisory Committee on Hazardous Substances in the morning and establishing the Hazardous Substances Advisory Committee in the afternoon was a sensible use of taxpayers’ money and time?

Charitable Registration

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Tuesday 13th November 2012 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Dobbin. My hon. Friend the Member for Congleton (Fiona Bruce) is very well regarded on both sides of the House and by me, and she deserves every one of the compliments that have been showered on her this afternoon. I congratulate her on securing a debate that has mobilised, at my last count, more than 40 Members of Parliament from both sides of the House. That is to be noted by the Government, but also by the Charity Commission.

It is important to unpack the debate, because there are three issues that are linked but need to be discussed separately. The first question is whether the Charity Commission has made a good or bad decision in relation to the Plymouth Brethren. The second is: what are the implications of that decision? That is the “Who’s next? What’s next?” question—the concern about a ripple effect across other religious groups. The third question is whether what we have set up to protect the integrity of the charity system in this country, to protect taxpayers and donors, is fit for purpose in terms of defining public benefit. It seems to me that those are the three issues, and I would like to try to deal with them in the time that I have left.

I have to say up front that I will be forced to pick up a slightly different hymn sheet from the one used by the rest of the hon. Members who spoke this afternoon. It is a little less rousing, but parts of this tune need to be heard. My first point is about the Charity Commission. “Rotten”, “discriminating”, “a bureaucratic bully crushing the little guy”, “a hidden agenda”, “unjust”, “inconsistent”, “arbitrary”, “a wolf in sheep’s clothing”—this has been quite a rough day for the members of the Charity Commission. It could be worse—they could be working in the BBC—but that is very tough language and it communicates the strength of feeling in the House on this issue.

However, I have to make an important point about the status of the Charity Commission. We have to remind ourselves that it is a non-ministerial Department. It is not subject to ministerial direction or control. It is an independent registrar and regulator. Its independence is set out in statute, and Ministers and the Government have no power to intervene in Charity Commission decisions.

[Mr Douglas Carswell (Clacton) (Con)]

The Charity Commission seems to be imposing a state dogma of uber-inclusivity on a religious group that has decided to be moderately exclusive. Does my hon. Friend the Minister think that that is very big society and, as the big society Minister, is he not prepared to do something about it? That is why we have elections, is it not?

[Mr Hurd]

That was a characteristically well made point, but actually the view that I have, as a Minister, on this individual decision is not relevant, for the reasons that I have just given. I am here to stand up for the commission’s freedom to take the decision, because that is the process that we have set up.

The second point is that, in exercising its functions, the Charity Commission is answerable to the courts. As many other hon. Members said, the Charity Commission’s decision not to register the Preston Down Trust has been appealed to the first-tier tribunal. As that decision is subject to an appeal, there is a limit to what the Charity Commission can say at the moment, and I hope that hon. Members will understand that there is a limit to what I can say in response to the debate, because I do not want, as a Minister, to be accused of trying to influence a tribunal.

[Damian Hinds]

If this had reached a point at which an attack was being made on the Church of England or the Catholic Church, would we still be saying that it is not right to question what the Charity Commission is doing and it is answerable only to the courts?

[Mr Hurd]

I am delighted to see my hon. Friend back on this side of the Chamber; I was worried for a moment when I saw where he was sitting earlier. I will deal with the specific point that he raises when I deal with the second part of the argument, which is: what are the wider implications of the decision?

I remind hon. Members that before the advent of the Charities Act 2006, it was generally considered that charities for the advancement of education, the advancement of religion and the relief of poverty benefited from a presumption of public benefit. The 2006 Act removed that presumption. The aim was to create a level playing field whereby all charities had to show their public benefit. As has been pointed out, the Act did not seek to define public benefit—we will return to that—but instead continued to rely on its common law meaning. It gave the Charity Commission the job—we should recognise that it is a difficult job—of producing guidance on public benefit, and promoting awareness and understanding of the public benefit requirement. One of the Charity Commission’s functions is to determine whether organisations that apply for registration are charitable in law. It is for organisations applying to show that they are charities, not for the Charity Commission to show that they are not.

Before the advent of the 2006 Act, the Exclusive Brethren were “excepted” charities and were not required to be registered with the Charity Commission. The 2006 Act required certain excepted charities to register with the commission. It is that change that has led to the application to register by the Preston Down Trust. According to the Charity Commission, its decision not to register the trust was based on the content of the application as it was presented. The commission says that it was not able to conclude that the Preston Down Trust was a charity in law based on the material that was presented to it in the application. The commission’s decision was explained in a letter dated 7 June. I can certainly place a copy of that letter in the Library of the House for hon. Members who do not have one.

[Fiona Bruce]

Can my hon. Friend the Minister comment on whether he thinks that the decision reflected what was the will of the House when the Charities Act was passed in 2006? I would be interested in his view and I believe that he can give it. I checked very carefully with the House of Commons Library before the debate that this issue is not sub judice or subject to those rules and therefore comment can be made on it in this Chamber.

[Mr Hurd]

We can all express our opinions, but I genuinely think that in this matter the substantive point that I have to make is that as things stand, unless the Charity Commission takes a different view on the evidence presented to it by the Brethren, it is for the tribunal to decide. I think quite genuinely and I say with real sincerity that it would be unhelpful for me to express a personal view as a Minister in that context.

I will move on to the second point. My answer to the first point—was this a good or bad decision?—is that as things stand, unless the Charity Commission changes its mind, it is for the tribunal to decide. A serious concern was raised about a ripple effect from the decision. There were concerns that the Charity Commission is pursuing an anti-Christian agenda. I am satisfied that that is not the case. As a public body, the Charity Commission is bound by equalities duties and by law must not discriminate in its dealings with different religions or faiths. A fact that has not emerged from the debate is that the Charity Commission continues to register hundreds of Christian charities each year, including charities that were previously excepted. That fact has to be reconciled with various statements—some of them quite wild—about the commission discriminating.

[Ian Paisley]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Hurd]

I have very little time and I would like to close on the third substantive point: is the process fit for purpose? The hon. Member for Edinburgh East (Sheila Gilmore) rightly said that this issue had been reviewed by the Government. We asked Lord Hodgson to review all the regulation and legislation affecting the sector. His preliminary conclusion was that the system that we have at the moment would be difficult to change, because there is a substantial challenge in trying to condense hundreds of years of case law into a rigid, fixed definition of public benefit in this place. His view was that it was better to stay with this flexible system, which can evolve over time and whereby things are determined by case law. We are reviewing that recommendation. This debate has certainly contributed to that. My position is that we will publish an interim report as a response to Hodgson, but we want to hear in particular the evidence from the Public Administration Committee, which has been looking into the issue. However, this debate has been extremely helpful.

I, like most other hon. Members in this Chamber, would like this issue to be resolved speedily. It has dragged on too long. I share hon. Members’ concerns about the cost that that imposes on the Brethren. Whatever the rights or wrongs of the decision, I urge all who are involved to get this issue resolved as quickly as possible.

[Jim Dobbin (in the Chair)]

May I ask those members of the public who are leaving to do so quietly so that we can move on to the next debate?

Oral Answers to Questions

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Wednesday 7th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

4. What recent progress he has made on delivering funding for big society projects.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

I am delighted to say that of the £470 million Office for Civil Society budget, we have managed to find some funding to support a pilot in Northern Ireland of the hugely popular National Citizen Service programme, which I hope the hon. Lady supports. As I have said on many occasions, it is very important to us that the Big Society Capital opportunity is UK-wide, and it is categorically open for business in respect of Northern Ireland.

[Ms Ritchie]

I thank the Minister for his answer, but could he point to any exemplar big society projects that could provide good learning for other regions, apart from the one to which he referred, for which I am grateful?

[Mr Hurd]

There is plenty of good practice to point to. However, this area is effectively a devolved matter. In the case of the National Citizen Service, we came to the Administration with an offer, saying that we think this is a valuable experience for young people and we would like to make it available to young people in Northern Ireland. To their credit, the Administration said yes.

[Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)]

Can my hon. Friend update the House about progress on the social impact finance project in Peterborough and assure the House that in developing social impact financing, he will look carefully at how it can be applied to other public sector projects?

[Mr Hurd]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his question. He takes a strong interest in the matter. The Government are ambitious to accelerate the development of social impact bonds, which create the space for commissioners to innovate and try new interventions in that space. We have already announced that we will shortly publish the details of an outcomes fund designed to do exactly that.

[Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Four out of five small charities surveyed by the National Association for Voluntary and Community Action expect their finances to worsen in the next year as Government cuts bite even harder. Is not the truth that the Minister has so little ability to deliver extra funding for small charities’ big society projects that if he were to hop on a plane to Australia to join his hon. Friend the Member for Mid Bedfordshire (Nadine Dorries) in the jungle, nobody in the charity world would notice?

[Mr Hurd]

Any Government cuts are the direct consequence of the fiscal incontinence of the Government that the hon. Gentleman adorned briefly as a Minister. We all know from our constituencies that this is an extremely tough time for charities and I could point to a long roll-call of initiatives taken by this Government, including new tax incentives, the gift aid small donations scheme, the implementation of the world’s first social investment bank and £50 million of matched funding for local charitable giving. This Government have a proud record of supporting the charity sector.

[Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con)]

5. What plans he has for the National Citizen Service.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

As I think my hon. Friend knows, the NCS is an enormously valuable experience for young people and we are keen to build on the success of the first two years’ pilots to make it available to every 16-year-old in the country.

[Margot James]

I visited the National Citizen Service in Dudley and I congratulate the Challenge network and the 150 students who took part last summer. Can my hon. Friend advise whether he has any plans to introduce private sponsorship so that we can widen participation in this excellent scheme?

[Mr Hurd]

I thank my hon. Friend for taking the time to visit her local project, and I thank all colleagues across the House who took the time to do so over the summer. I hope they see what I see and what independent research tells us, which is that the NCS experience is helping young people become more work-ready and employable. That is a direct benefit to business, which to date has contributed about £3 million to the costs of the programme. As we look to expand it and make it more available, I expect that number to rise.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

Youth services in Darlington have been decimated to pay for this pet project. If, when we have an evaluation, it turns out not to have been a roaring success, will the Minister put the money back?

[Mr Hurd]

The money has not come from youth services. That is a completely separate budget. The National Citizen Service programme is proving hugely valuable to young people. We have a 95% customer satisfaction rating and, to answer the hon. Lady’s question, independent research is already telling us that the social benefit to cost ratio is 2:1, and we look to build on that.

[Dr Phillip Lee (Bracknell) (Con)]

6. What steps he plans to take to enable small and medium-sized enterprises to secure more Government contracts.

Charitable Incorporated Organisation

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Tuesday 30th October 2012 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

I have today laid draft secondary legislation needed to give effect to the charitable incorporated organisation (CIO). The CIO is a new legal structure, under the Charities Act 2011, designed specifically and only for charities.

Charities seeking the benefits of incorporation can currently set up as a company limited by guarantee, but many are put off by the additional administrative burden of dual registration and regulation under both charity law and company law (of the 162,000 registered charities only just over 30,000 are structured as a company limited by guarantee). The CIO has the benefits of legal personality and limited liability, but will be solely registered with, and regulated by, the Charity Commission for England and Wales. The CIO will add to the range of legal structures that charities can choose to adopt. Implementing the CIO supports the Government’s aim of making it easier to set up and run a civil society organisation. Due to its limited liability, the CIO structure should make it easier for charities to recruit and retain trustees, and to engage in contracts and hold property. Implementation of the CIO is supported by the Charity Commission and will be welcomed by the voluntary sector.

The CIO is expected to be a popular legal structure for both new and existing charities seeking the benefits of incorporation. Given the expected levels of demand for the CIO, and to help the Charity Commission manage its available resources to support the implementation of the CIO, we have agreed with the Charity Commission a phased implementation plan, which is set out below.

The phased implementation timetable set out below is indicative (and implementation is subject to parliamentary approval of the secondary legislation needed to implement the CIO). The Charity Commission will need to retain flexibility to change the dates on which application windows open if the level of demand significantly exceeds expectations. The commission will maintain an up-to-date implementation timetable on its website.

The current package of secondary legislation does not make provision for the conversion of charitable companies limited by guarantee, community interest companies, or charitable industrial and provident societies. Separate secondary legislation will be brought forward in due course to provide a mechanism for the conversion for these entities that wish to convert into ClOs.

Charity Commission's indicative timetable

Oral Answers to Questions

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Wednesday 5th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Stephenson (Pendle) (Con)]

5. What recent assessment he has made of the second round of National Citizen Service pilots.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

In its first year, the National Citizen Service achieved customer satisfaction ratings of 95% and a benefit-to-cost ratio of 2:1, with approximately three times more young people going through the programme this year. We expect to build on that, and we will be publishing an independent evaluation next year.

[Andrew Stephenson]

I thank the Minister for that answer. Last week I took part in a “Dragon’s Den”-type session for young people to pitch social action projects, which was organised by the Challenge Network and took place at the ACE centre in Nelson in my constituency. Does my hon. Friend share my admiration for organisations such as the Challenge Network, who get young people involved in projects that can make a real difference in their communities?

[Mr Hurd]

Yes, I do. I congratulate the Challenge Network and others who are helping to deliver what is an outstanding programme. I continue to be amazed that so much can be done in just three weeks in building young people’s confidence and skills, and in giving them a chance to make a positive difference in their communities.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

Does the Minister share my concern at the report by the Education Committee which found that, based on the cost per head of the 2011 pilot, it will cost a total of £355 million each year to provide a universal offer for the NCS, and that, even allowing for economies of scale, that cost may well outstrip the entire annual spending by local authorities on youth services, which totalled £350 million in 2009-10?

[Mr Hurd]

I simply encourage the hon. Lady to visit an NCS project. I think she will see that the projects are outstandingly popular with the young people who are taking part, and that although people in the youth sector are understandably frustrated at cuts elsewhere, they are beginning to recognise that the NCS is an enormously positive asset in terms of developing the young people of this country.

[Mrs Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab)]

6. What estimate he has made of the total reduction in funding to the voluntary sector in 2011-12.

[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

9. What estimate he has made of the total reduction in funding to the voluntary sector in 2011-12.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

Data from the Charity Commission suggest that the gross income of registered charities grew in 2011, but we all know that the sector is going through a very difficult period. We are putting in place plans to help it through this very difficult transition period, and to open up new funding opportunities over the medium term.

[Mrs Glindon]

In the north-east, funding reductions are forcing 48% of voluntary sector organisations to close services and 28% to reduce the number of beneficiaries they support. What impact does the Minister think such losses will have on the Government’s plans to increase the role of the voluntary sector in delivering public services?

[Mr Hurd]

I share the hon. Lady’s concern and that is why we have pressed the point, from the Prime Minister down, to local authorities that they should try to avoid making disproportionate cuts to the voluntary sector and why we have put in place funds to help manage the transition. I have to say to her that for the Labour party to keep talking about cuts to the voluntary sector without recognising why those cuts were necessary in the first place, and without recognising that Labour councils are doing some of the heaviest cutting while saying absolutely nothing about the future of the sector, is fooling no one and disappointing many.

[Helen Goodman]

In County Durham, the local authority has had to reduce its grass-cutting service because of the reductions in its grant, so I rang the local Community Service Volunteers, thinking that that might be something it could take on. It said that it could not, because it did not know whether it will have core funding after the new year. Does the Minister not understand that far from creating a big society, he is destroying the society we have?

[Mr Hurd]

We are investing in the infrastructure that supports the voluntary sector, with some £30 million already invested through the transforming local infrastructure fund. Yet again, I draw the hon. Lady’s attention to the fact that that cut to that grant has not come from the centre but from the local authority, which is accountable for that decision.

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

Will the Minister join me in thanking the 70,000 volunteers who took part in the London Olympics? What steps will be taken to ensure that we build on that volunteering legacy?

[Mr Hurd]

Anyone lucky enough to have gone to the Olympic games or the Paralympics will know just what an important role the volunteers played in making them an enormous success. My hon. Friend is right that we clearly have a big opportunity to build on that, which is why we have committed another £40 million for the social action fund to back exciting new campaigns to inspire volunteers, such as “Join In”, which inspired a quarter of a million people to get involved with their local sports clubs in August.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on bringing forward new proposals to support the voluntary sector, but will he join me in condemning Labour-run councils that are cutting the voluntary sector, decimating services and then blaming the Government?

[Mr Hurd]

My hon. Friend and neighbour from Harrow makes a good point. Locally, we have the contrast between Conservative-run Hillingdon council, which is increasing its investment in the front-line voluntary sector, and Labour-controlled Harrow next door, where that investment is being reduced.

[Mr Gareth Thomas (Harrow West) (Lab/Co-op)]

Ministers’ huge cuts in funding for charities mean that volunteer centres across England are losing, on average, 25% of their income, according to Volunteering England. With so many Olympic and Paralympic volunteers wanting to continue to volunteer after the games are finished, why are Ministers so determined to make it so hard for them to do so?

[Mr Hurd]

We are not. The hon. Gentleman has never let facts get in the way of shameless opposition and he has not disappointed today. We are investing in the infrastructure to support and inspire volunteers, with £30 million for the transforming local infrastructure fund. We are doing our bit from the centre, but the point I would make to local authorities across the country is that they should recognise the value of the volunteers in their community and not cut the investment in the local infrastructure that supports them.

[Mr Michael McCann (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (Lab)]

8. What plans he has for the (a) ministerial and (b) civil service code of conduct.

--- Later in debate ---

[James Morris (Halesowen and Rowley Regis) (Con)]

T5. Over the summer, I had the pleasure of hosting a visit by a group of young people as part of the National Citizen Service, organised by the Challenge Network in the black country, which was a fantastic success. Will the Minister outline his plans for the further roll-out of the NCS next year?

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

We are ambitious to expand the NCS because it is such an outstandingly positive opportunity for young people. The aim is to make it available to 90,000 teenagers in 2014.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

T2. Reshuffles are always a busy time. Does the Cabinet Office have any specific plans to ensure that Cabinet Office staff do not have communication difficulties with the overwhelmingly male, rich and white Cabinet who have just been appointed?

[Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)]

T6. Last week, I was privileged to see the hard work of the NCS volunteers at the New Scene centre in Chester. However, a number of the young people were from over the border in Wales. While they were delighted to be able to do their NCS activities in England, they were disappointed that they were not able to do them in their own communities. Will the Minister join me in calling for the Welsh Assembly Government to introduce a national citizen service in Wales next year?

[Mr Hurd]

I thank my hon. Friend for getting so actively engaged with the NCS this summer. I am delighted that Northern Ireland teenagers will be involved in the pilots this autumn, and we have extended the offer to the Welsh Assembly. I hope he can help us to get a positive response to that.

[Kate Green (Stretford and Urmston) (Lab)]

T3. Earlier this year, Ministers announced the closure of the Driver and Vehicle Licensing Agency office in my constituency, which was widely used by small local motor traders to get their vehicle licences. Will the Minister confirm that he is having discussions, and urging colleagues in BIS to have discussions, with the motor trade about whether the Post Office might pick up that slack?

[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

T8. In July 2011 the Department for Work and Pensions introduced a new standard contract that encouraged its suppliers to hire 5% of their work force as apprentices. A year later, more than 2,000 apprenticeships have been created, at no extra cost to the Government. Is the Minister aware that rolling that out across Whitehall will create thousands of new apprenticeships?

[Mr Hurd]

My hon. Friend makes a good and valid point. This Government have a proud record on creating apprenticeships. Our position is not to put a blanket condition on Departments, but to encourage them to take an innovative approach, such as the one he mentions in the Department for Work and Pensions.

The Prime Minister was asked—

Prime Minister’s Adviser on Ministers’ Interests

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Tuesday 17th July 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

I am grateful to the hon. Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas) for clarifying the Labour party’s position on this issue—or not. I would like to begin by registering my personal respect for my hon. Friend the Member for Harwich and North Essex (Mr Jenkin) and the other members of his Committee for their persistence on this matter. I note carefully his comment that that persistence is not going away. I also note, on the Government’s behalf, that the motion has cross-party support and has been signed by a number of distinguished Chairmen of Select Committees. This short debate is therefore one the Government must listen to, and I believe are listening to, carefully, and we will consider carefully what has come out of it.

I think it would be helpful if I restated an important principle that the Labour party also clung to in its 13 years in power: when it comes to the ministerial code, the Prime Minister is the ultimate judge of the standards of behaviour expected of a Minister and the appropriate consequences of a breach of those standards, as my hon. Friend the Member for Rochester and Strood (Mark Reckless) pointed out. The bottom line is that Ministers remain in office only for as long as they retain the confidence of the Prime Minister. He or she decides, and is accountable to Parliament for those decisions.

The advent of an independent adviser is clearly welcome—although the Labour party seemed to fight it for many years—and he or she clearly has an important role. It is worth clarifying that there are two aspects to the role, both of which are important. One part of the role is, at the request of the Prime Minister, to look into allegations of breaches of the ministerial code, if the Prime Minister thinks that is necessary, and to advise the Prime Minister. But it is for the Prime Minister to take this decision and be accountable for it. In some cases, the Prime Minister will have no need to ask for advice, as the issues will be clear. In other cases, there may be the need for further investigation before the Prime Minister can take a decision. In those instances, he will refer to the independent adviser.

It is to misunderstand the intended role of the independent adviser to suggest that he or she should be able to instigate his or her own investigations. The adviser is there, personally appointed by the Prime Minister, to advise the Prime Minister on allegations of breaches of the code, if the Prime Minister thinks it is necessary. I shall now read out an important quote from the Prime Minister’s evidence to the Liaison Committee on 3 July:

“The ministerial adviser on interests is there to advise the Prime Minister; he gives the advice and the Prime Minister has to make the decision.”

There has been no change in approach; this is the same practice that existed under the previous Government.

[Greg Mulholland]

I am listening with interest to my hon. Friend, as he is actually dealing with the issue, unlike the hon. Member for Harrow West (Mr Thomas) in his extraordinary and pathetic contribution. Does my hon. Friend not accept that if the independent adviser had the powers we are talking about, he himself would say that there is not the evidence to proceed with an inquiry? The proposed approach would do that job and give the public confidence that there was no need for an inquiry in the first place.

[Mr Hurd]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention, and I can see the passion with which he makes his argument, but the important principle is who is ultimately responsible, and that is the Prime Minister.

[Paul Flynn]

The Chairman of the Committee on Standards in Public Life, Sir Christopher Kelly, said in evidence to the Public Administration Committee that in his view the Prime Minister had broken the ministerial code in one of these instances. As the Prime Minister is unlikely to refer himself to the adviser, is it not crucial that we have someone of independence who can take on the Prime Minister when he is suspected of breaking the ministerial code?

[Mr Hurd]

I have not seen Sir Christopher Kelly’s evidence on that, but there is no shortage of opportunities to hold the Prime Minister to account on anything.

Providing advice to the Prime Minister on allegations about a breach of the ministerial code is one aspect of the independent adviser’s role. I also wish to explain the other important aspect of the role, as it has been ignored in the debate: the adviser provides an independent check and source of advice to Ministers on the handling of their private interests in order to avoid any conflict between those interests and their ministerial responsibilities, as set out in section 7 of the ministerial code. This is very much behind-the-scenes work; it is about sorting out issues before they arise. However, it does result in the publication by the Cabinet Office of the list of Ministers’ interests, which puts into the public domain a list of all the relevant interests of all Ministers and enables external scrutiny of possible conflicts of interest. Obviously, this is an ongoing process as issues arise, not a one-off. It is important to put on record that second dimension to the independent adviser’s work.

Some questions were raised about particular cases this afternoon, although I think that the hon. Member for Harrow West struck the wrong tone, not for the first time, by seizing the opportunity to try to make a political attack on the Prime Minister. Rather than rehearse some arguments about why one particular case was referred or otherwise, I simply say that in each case—those of the former Secretary of State for Defence, my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox), my right hon. Friend the Culture Secretary and Baroness Warsi—there were no shortages of opportunities for the House or for the media to hold the Prime Minister to account for the decisions he took.

[Mark Reckless]

Did not the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn) go beyond that by suggesting that the code, rather than being a prime ministerial document for Ministers, actually applies to the Prime Minister, too, and that the independent investigator should investigate whether the Prime Minister has breached it? If that were the case, should we not all just pack up, go home and let the independent advisers decide everything?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hurd]

I share my hon. Friend’s reservations about placing too much weight and responsibility on someone who is ultimately an adviser, and this will not be the first time that the hon. Member for Newport West has overstated his case. The point that I was trying to make about the political attacks on the Prime Minister by the hon. Member for Harrow West was that the reasons in each particular case that he cited were made public and the Prime Minister, as we are extremely well aware, was held very accountable for all those decisions.

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

Does the Minister not recognise that history shows that the ministerial code has been invoked more as a shield against public and parliamentary accountability than as a tool for enabling those things? For as long as the code remains the personal app of the Prime Minister and the independent adviser does not have independence, surely all we are looking at is a feeble cross between a figment and a fig leaf.

[Mr Hurd]

The hon. Gentleman gives me an opportunity to discuss the issue of whether Sir Alex is independent enough, which featured in the thrust of the argument from many hon. Members.

[Robert Halfon]

Following on from the point made by the hon. Member for Foyle (Mark Durkan), does my hon. Friend agree that to solve this problem the ministerial code should be ratified by Parliament?

[Mr Hurd]

I thank my hon. Friend for his intervention and for his suit, which has enlivened proceedings today.

In the time available to me, I wish to make a comment about the issue of the independence of Sir Alex Allan, because it has been suggested that he is not independent enough or even that he is perhaps not up to the job, having only just retired from a senior role at the heart of government before taking up the role. As I have said, this is a personal appointment by the Prime Minister of the day. A number of qualities are required for the job. In particular, the independent adviser needs to be somebody whose expertise and experience enable them to provide confidential and trusted advice to Ministers and their permanent secretaries. It is our judgment, and the judgment of the Prime Minister, that Sir Alex Allan has that experience, as well as the necessary skills and judgment to make him ideally suited for the role.

In conclusion, today’s debate has shown the range of views on the issue. I hope that we have made it clear that the Government treat issues of ministerial conduct with the utmost seriousness. The Government will reflect carefully on the points made in this debate, and will reflect on them in our response, overdue as it is, to the Public Administration Committee report. That response will be published shortly.

Voluntary Sector

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Wednesday 4th July 2012 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Dobbin. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Stevenage (Stephen McPartland) on securing the debate and for the sincere way in which he expressed his admiration and respect for the 300-odd local charities in Stevenage. He clearly does more than talk the talk: he walks the walk by being a patron and trustee of at least two of those organisations, which is admirable.

My hon. Friend and other colleagues are reflecting the importance of the sector to the country in a year when we are presenting to the world the best of Britain, and I have absolutely no doubt that the voluntary sector is part of that. The ecosystem of charities, supported by millions of people who give time and money to improve other people’s lives and the conditions in their neighbourhood, underpins our sense of well-being; it is massively important.

My hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle (John Stevenson) spoke well about organisations in his area. I vividly remember visiting the Living Well Trust on the Raffles estate when I first became a Member of Parliament. What was really brought home to me was that on a troubled estate the thing that made a difference—the people who made a difference—were Barrie, Kath and the team there. They did much more than anything a council could do to support residents from the estate. The Living Well Trust was the battery at the heart of the estate, and that forged a strong impression in my mind.

Times are challenging for such organisations: less money is around, there are more demands and there is a huge amount of change. We are sensitive to that. In the short time I have, I shall reassure colleagues that the Government are extremely committed to protecting the sector as best we can through a difficult short term, while putting in place measures that will underpin its resilience and effectiveness in the future. I will address specifically how we can make it easier for charities to access money and to help us deliver better public services.

First, we are trying to make it easier to run a charity. We all know that it is one of the most difficult things to do; it has always been difficult, but it is particularly hard now. The Government can do things to help, such as looking hard at the amount of bureaucracy and regulation imposed—my hon. Friend the Member for Carlisle made that point—and we are undergoing probably the biggest and most comprehensive review of the regulation and legislation that affects the sector. Our instinct is to deregulate and to remove bureaucracy, so that there are fewer forms to fill and fewer daft questions to answer, freeing time and money that can be better spent.

My hon. Friend the Member for Stevenage mentioned CRB checks, which have been a huge source of frustration. We are certainly not going as fast as many people would like, but the reform is radical; millions fewer people will need to have CRB checks, and those who do will find it much easier to carry the check around the system. The reform, which my colleagues at the Home Office are working hard on, is complicated, but the new system will be in place at the beginning of next year. It will be a new era for CRB checks, with an injection of common sense in a system that had grown out of all proportion. That is only one example of the kind of things that we are doing to make life a bit easier.

Mention was made of how small charities can find access to what money is around. Information is important, so we have continued to fund a website called Funding Central, which I recommend to colleagues. It is probably the most comprehensive source of grants and pots of money available.

My hon. Friend the Member for Lincoln (Karl MᶜCartney) talked, importantly, about the value of trustees, which we are keen to encourage. The environment is challenging for charities, and most of them recognise that they lack certain things, such as business skills in particular, which will become increasingly relevant if they are competing for more tenders and public work. There are business skills in every constituency, but they happen to be engaged in different things. The impression I get in my constituency is that if we can make better connections between local businesses and local people with business skills and the charities that are on their doorstep, the effect can be transformational; it can raise the capacity and capability of small local charities. We will be doing a lot to make those connections work much better. Furthermore, some of those business people will be inspired to become trustees and become part of the governance of local charities.

Making it easier to run a charity, therefore, and helping the sector to modernise its skills is important. Behind most front-line charities, of course, sits a local council for voluntary service, or another support organisation, and we have invested £30 million in the CVS network to encourage the councils to think about how they can improve their offer to front-line charities. That is a serious investment when there is not a great deal of money around. Making it easier to run a charity is the first important strategic strand.

Secondly, how do we get more money into the sector? How do we get more resource in terms of more volunteers and people giving their time? I recommend to colleagues the White Paper on giving and the update we published last week for dissemination to local charities, because in those documents we communicate clearly our absolute commitment to broaden the base of people in this country who give.

I shall throw a spotlight on a couple of initiatives where we are putting up taxpayers’ money as a match to stimulate giving to local charities. Localgiving.com is a new platform set up by one of the participants in “The Secret Millionaire” to inspire more support for local charities. In September, we will be matching, pound for pound, local donations given through that site. It will be our third match. The previous one sold out in 24 hours, which tells us that if people are given information about the local charities on their doorstep, they are interested in doing more to support them. I encourage colleagues to get their local charities to register and get engaged with Localgiving.com, for the pound-for-pound match in September.

We have also put up £50 million to match donations from local philanthropists—people who have been relatively fortunate and want to put something back into their communities. We will match every £1 they give with an additional 50p towards the building of local endowments that will be a source of sustainable, long-term grants for local organisations. We are determined on such interventions for the long term, so getting more resources into the sector is hugely important to us.

Thirdly—a relatively new area—how do we make it easier for charities to participate in and help us to deliver better public services? Part of the problem is that the public services in the past have been closed and opportunities have not been available. The Government are opening up opportunities, but it is a big cultural change and will not happen overnight. Big question marks are raised about the capability and competence of commissioners throughout the country—many are new and many are being asked to do things in different ways—and of local charities, which need to step up and persuade commissioners that they have the resilience and ability to deliver.

We are working hard to make that a reality. We are sending strong signals to commissioners. We supported the private Member’s Bill promoted by my hon. Friend the Member for Warwick and Leamington (Chris White), which places a requirement on commissioners to consider social value in their commissioning processes. The “Best Value Statutory Guidance” issued by the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government to local authorities also makes it clear that we want them to consider social value. The Localism Act 2011 contains a right to challenge, so that local groups can question existing provision in a public and transparent way. We are setting up a commissioning academy, because commissioners need support, and the first cohort is going through this summer. That is about encouraging more intelligent commissioning, in particular at local level.

We are supporting local charities that want to do more in that space. A £10 million investment and contract readiness fund has been set up as a source of grants available to charities and social enterprises that want to do more public service delivery but recognise that they need a little more help and support to increase their capability and readiness. The principle is clear, however: we want the people buying on our behalf to have much more choice in who they buy from.

In some of the most stubborn and difficult social areas, charities and social enterprises frequently make the extra bit of difference in keeping people out of jail or off drugs, as has been said, but such organisations are often small. One of the challenges mentioned is a real one; commissioners naturally want to buy at scale, with all the potential efficiencies that can be pursued, but they find it difficult to reconcile that with including small, local charities that could make that additional bit of difference in the supply chain.

We are feeling our way, but there is definite progress. This morning, I had a meeting with the National Council for Voluntary Organisations and Serco, which have come together with a new framework to guide prime contractors—big private organisations or big charities—in their engagement with small charities in their supply chain. In an environment where we are paying people for outcomes, it is in the interests of bigger organisations to engage with the small local charities that, in our experience, can make just that additional bit of difference.

Finally, if my hon. Friend the Member for Stevenage wants to bring any of the 300 magnificent charities in his constituency to meet the Minister, he is extremely welcome to do so, because I regularly have such meetings. I would like them to feel the appreciation of the Government for the incredible work that they do.

Oral Answers to Questions

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Wednesday 13th June 2012 Commons Chamber

[Ann McKechin (Glasgow North) (Lab)]

9. What steps he plans to take to measure the social impact of the Big Society Capital.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

Big Society Capital exists to make it easier for charities and social enterprises across the UK to access capital. It has two measures of success: growth in social investment and the social impact of its investments. It is required to report annually on both the social and financial performance of those investments.

[Sandra Osborne]

I thank the Minister for that response. Cathy Pharoah of the Centre for Charitable Giving and Philanthropy has said that Big Society Capital is likely to be biased in favour of safe lending. How will the Minister ensure that smaller projects with higher-risk clients have access to it?

[Mr Hurd]

Big Society Capital is a fundraising organisation with a social mission and exists to correct a market failure. It will support innovation and grow the new social investment market and will invest across a range of products. All we have asked it to do is ensure that it secures a sufficient return to cover its costs.

[Ann McKechin]

In a written answer to me on 11 June, the Minister stated:

“The Investment and Contract Readiness Fund applies to England only.”—[Official Report, 11 June 2012; Vol. 546, c. 218W.]

Given that Big Society Capital is for the whole United Kingdom, how will companies in other parts of the country be able to secure the same assistance?

[Mr Hurd]

Ultimately, that is a matter for the devolved Administrations, but the hon. Lady is right: Big Society Capital has been set up to be available to charities and social enterprises throughout the UK. The investment and contract readiness fund—£10 million of grants—is available to charities and social enterprises in England which want to make themselves more investment-ready, but the policy area is devolved and therefore a matter for the devolved Administrations.

[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

Smaller charities say that they have a harder time accessing capital than the big “Tesco” charities. How can we ensure that the big society benefits the little society?

[Mr Hurd]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point, which is particularly relevant and valid in small charities week. He is entirely right. Access to capital affects smaller charities more than larger ones, and that is one reason why within two years we have developed and established the world’s first social investment institution, Big Society Capital, which exists to make such capital much easier to access.

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

In measuring the impact of Big Society Capital, will the Minister assure the House that the resource will tackle deprivation in hard-to-reach communities, particularly in Northern Ireland, where there are isolated rural communities and 35 scientifically measured areas of disadvantage?

[Mr Hurd]

I have been to Northern Ireland myself to make the point that Big Society Capital is available to charities and social enterprises there. The honest answer to the hon. Lady’s question is that any outcome depends on the quality of the investment proposition that intermediaries take to Big Society Capital, but we are very keen to engage with charities and social enterprises in Northern Ireland in order to make sure that the measure is as accessible to Northern Ireland as we say we want it to be.

[Mr Wayne David (Caerphilly) (Lab)]

3. What steps he is taking to support civil servants facing redundancy.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con)]

5. What steps he is taking to reduce the administrative and regulatory burdens that affects the number of people who volunteer.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

We want to make it much easier to volunteer, so we are implementing most of the recommendations in Lord Hodgson’s excellent report, “Unshackling Good Neighbours”. To identify any remaining burdens, we have launched the civil society red tape challenge and have urged the sector and the public to contribute by visiting the challenge website.

[Mr Spencer]

In Sherwood, many people are put off volunteering by unnecessary Criminal Records Bureau checks. Will the Minister update the House on how we can reduce that burden?

[Mr Hurd]

That is a frustration felt in many constituencies. My hon. Friend will be aware that changes are under way. There are two major thrusts of change: many fewer people will require checks; and those who do will find it much easier to carry those checks around the system—the portability for which people have been asking for some time. Those changes will largely be in place by next spring, and I am sure that they will be as welcome in Sherwood as they will in Ruislip.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

This issue has come up repeatedly. Does the Minister accept that in the coming years the red tape challenge will be judged on the numbers of people who are involved in volunteering and the verdict of those who want to volunteer?

[Mr Hurd]

All I know is that it is incumbent on Government to get out of the way as much as they can. Many areas of regulation are too intrusive and take up too much time and money that could be better used. I think that there is cross-party support for wanting to encourage more people to get involved, and if the Government can get out of the way, then we should.

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

6. What progress he has made on his plans to place civil service pensions on a sustainable footing.

--- Later in debate ---

[Seema Malhotra (Feltham and Heston) (Lab/Co-op)]

7. What discussions Ministers in his Department have had with their ministerial colleagues on charitable donations.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

We liaise regularly with other Departments in the development of our agenda to encourage more giving of both time and money.

[Seema Malhotra]

Research from New Philanthropy Capital has revealed that 65% of charities are being forced to cut front-line services. In addition, after the way in which the tax relief proposal was handled, the expert Alana Lowe-Patraske said:

“It remains to be seen if donors and charities trust this government on philanthropy”.

Will the Minister update the House on how the Government will repair their relationships with charities?

[Mr Hurd]

I think the hon. Lady will find that most people in the sector and most commentators recognise and welcome the Chancellor’s change of mind on that. They also recognise that this is a Government absolutely committed to creating the conditions for charities and social enterprises to do more. That includes supporting more giving of time and money through initiatives such as the social action fund, through various match funding and through some generous tax incentives—

[Mr Speaker]

We are grateful to the Minister.

[Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)]

I commend the Government for their actions following the consultations on taxation and charitable donations, but may I urge the Minister to look again at the gift aid structure, and perhaps to consider a transfer to a system whereby individuals can deduct their charitable donations from their tax directly?

[Mr Hurd]

Gift aid and all matters relating to tax are a Treasury matter. My hon. Friend will be aware that gift aid is under constant review, and in the 2011 Budget some welcome initiatives were brought in to make gift aid easier to claim for small charities and small donations.

[Caroline Dinenage (Gosport) (Con)]

8. What recent assessment he has made of the work of the behavioural insights team.

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

The team is headed by a steering board which is chaired by the Cabinet Secretary. In September 2011 the team published an annual update of its first year, and a two-year sunset review will be conducted by the board in summer 2012.

[Caroline Dinenage]

What financial saving does the Minister estimate has so far been made by this initiative?

[Mr Hurd]

The team does some very interesting work on encouraging behaviour to change in cost-effective ways. If my hon. Friend looks at the annual report, she will see some good examples. For instance, by slightly changing the wording in letters sent out by Her Majesty’s Revenue and Customs to self-assessment taxpayers who owed money, the team increased payment rates from 68% to 83%, which is estimated to lead to savings of £30 million a year in administrative and court costs if rolled out across the country.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

10. What steps he has taken to ensure clarity and efficiency in the delivery of policy across Government.

--- Later in debate ---

[Nicola Blackwood (Oxford West and Abingdon) (Con)]

T6. I am sure that the Minister will join me in applauding the work of the Archway Foundation, which for 30 years has been combating loneliness in my constituency. Like many charities, it is struggling increasingly with excessive regulation. What steps is he taking to combat red tape to let charities do what they do best, which is to help those who are most in need in our communities?

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

I am delighted to congratulate the Archway Foundation on its work. My hon. Friend is right that there is too much that gets in the way of charities and voluntary organisations in doing their work. That is why we are undertaking what is probably the most comprehensive review of the regulation and legislation that affects the sector.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

T2. The Department for Work and Pensions has no right to data. Absurdly, its Ministers have banned Work programme providers from publishing any data on their performance. That is the opposite of this Minister’s open data policy. What is he doing about it?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hurd]

Independent research has shown that more than 8,000 teenagers committed almost 250,000 hours of service to their communities last year, that the customer satisfaction rating among the teenagers who took part was 93%, and that the benefit-cost ratio was 2:1. That was a good start and I encourage all colleagues of all parties to get involved with the NCS in their constituencies this summer. It is a fantastic opportunity for their young constituents.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

T3. The Government came to power promising a bonfire of the quangos. Will the Minister confirm, however, that the Health and Social Care Act 2012 creates more quangos than the Public Bodies Act 2011 abolished?

Outsourcing (Government Departments)

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Wednesday 25th April 2012 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Secretary, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship for the first time, Mrs Main. I congratulate the hon. Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) on securing the debate and on how he presented his case. I believe that he worked in the NHS before going into politics. I read his profile, which says that his political mission is to push Labour leftwards, so he must be delighted with the direction of travel. It is clear where he is coming from and I have a certain respect for that, even though I come from a different place politically.

Our constituencies may be different, but I suspect that all our constituents share a desire to see the Government deliver better value for the tax that they pay. This Government take that seriously.

[Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Hurd]

Perhaps I can just advance my argument a little.

This is not the place to have a great debate about the economic situation or the level of debt that the Government have inherited, but we are serious about trying to deliver better value for taxpayers’ money. I am a Minister in the Cabinet Office. The controls that we have put in place—that my boss, the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General has put in place—delivered some £3.75 billion in the first year of our Government and are on track to deliver £5 billion of savings this year. We are quite proud of that. Frankly, it was an exercise in delivering common sense. It is an appalling indictment of the attitude of the previous Administration to public money that such big savings could be found in such short order by doing some basic commonsensical things.

[Ian Lavery]

Does the Minister agree, in respect of looking for better value, that paying doctors, nurses and porters in his constituency more than those in my constituency is a good way of saving money?

[Mr Hurd]

I want doctors and nurses to be paid at fair value. I am also interested in the value that they offer to the taxpayer for the work that they do, which brings me on to my next point about public services and how they are commissioned.

The Government’s view is that, when expectations about public service standards are rising, we need to find more creative solutions. There is dissatisfaction and a challenge, because there is less money about and therefore greater pressure to get better outcomes with less money.

My hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock (Jackie Doyle-Price) made an important point: the direction of travel here is not driven by ideology, although there is more ideology communicated from the Opposition than the Government. This is driven by a desire to deliver better outcomes on behalf of the taxpayer and the people we are trying to help in a way that is much more transparent than before.

[Ian Mearns]

The Minister belabours the point about making additional efficiencies within government since the coalition came to power. Of course, one of the biggest elements of public expenditure is local government. Conservative control in local government has been at a high watermark for eight or nine years now. Would he criticise Conservative councils in that respect?

[Mr Hurd]

I resist any invitation to criticise Conservative councils, particularly at this moment. My point is about attitudes to taxpayers’ money. The previous Administration were cavalier with taxpayers’ money and this Administration are trying to deliver better

[Gloria De Piero]

The Minister might not want to speak about Conservative councils, but I live in Nottinghamshire where the Conservative council has just used taxpayers’ money to develop a new logo on all the buildings. Is that good value for taxpayers?

[Mr Hurd]

I do not know because I do not know the situation in Nottingham. That is an issue on which the people of Nottingham can take a view and they will be able to express that view more clearly and more loudly because we are moving towards a world in which there is more transparency about local authorities’ spending. We are moving away from the opaque world in which we had very little information about what was being done in our name.

[Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab)]

I share the Minister’s concern about value for money, although I am also concerned about protecting the most vulnerable and about the standard of public services and the intelligence of targets that are used in outsourcing. Will he respond to the point that was powerfully put by my hon. Friend the Member for Easington, about the evidence base behind this? Where is the evidence that outsourcing provides better value for money?

[Mr Hurd]

I am delighted to move on to the substance of the debate. I have tried my best to respond to various interventions from Opposition Members. The hon. Member for Easington referred to open public services. [Interruption.] With respect to the hon. Gentleman, I am trying to answer the meat of his argument, which is whether it is good to create a situation in which those buying on behalf of the taxpayer have choice about where they buy services on our behalf. He is actually arguing for no choice and for protection of the status quo. The Government’s open public services White Paper makes it clear—we expect a political argument about this—that we want to switch the default setting away from in-house delivery to commissioning services from a diverse range of providers where that would improve services or reduce costs.

The hon. Gentleman made it clear that he was hostile to the for-profits sector. My hon. Friend the Member for Thurrock made a valuable point that the Government are agnostic about who delivers the service. We are particularly keen—it is a coalition Government commitment —to make it easier for charities and social enterprises to participate in public services. They are not driven by a profit motive. By definition, they are driven by a desire to deliver a better outcome for the people whom they support and care about.

[Jackie Doyle-Price]

The hon. Member for Easington (Grahame M. Morris) referred to academies in his speech. Perhaps I should remind my hon. Friend about the Public Accounts Committee’s inquiry into academies, which showed that they delivered not only better outcomes for the taxpayer but better value for money. Is that not a perfect example of how changing provision and getting away from uniform provision delivers better outcomes?

[Mr Hurd]

Yes, I absolutely agree. I also agree with what my hon. Friend said when the hon. Member for Easington kept saying, “Where’s the evidence?” There is plenty of evidence for the value of competition—if we need it, because we know it in our daily lives. Academic research suggests that competitively tendering public services typically produces savings of between 10% and 30% while maintaining or improving standards. I refer the hon. Member for Easington to the “Public Services Industry Review” of July 2008 by Dr DeAnne Julius, but there is no shortage of evidence for the value of tendering and introducing competition into the system.

Dr Julius also talked about the payment-by-results regime, which the Opposition do not like at all, although the situation we inherited was that those buying on our behalf were extraordinarily complacent about whether we got anything for the money. Such a regime is not appropriate in every case, but we are moving towards a requirement for commissioners—those buying on our behalf—to think much harder about what they are buying and the outcomes against which they will be measured in a new transparent world where there will be nowhere to hide. Yes, we will introduce payment by results where that is appropriate, because it introduces some basic, common-sense discipline into how we spend taxpayers’ money. For most of my constituents, that makes plain common sense—after all, it is their money.

Finally, we are also keen to encourage the development of mutuals, employee ownership and organisations in which employees are in charge. One such model in which ownership is shared between employees, Government and private sector partners is the innovative pathfinder mutual joint venture, My Civil Service Pension, which provides pension administration for civil servants. Likewise, I go around the country and meet some of the mutual spin-outs from the NHS, where the hon. Gentleman used to work, and the difference when one walks through the door into those organisations is tangible.

Our programme of reform is focused on the citizen and is already cutting out unnecessary cost to help protect front-line priorities. Outsourcing remains an interesting option and one that will offer the best deal in many situations, but it is not the only one, and we are judging every case on its merits.