Charity Commission (Contingent Liability)

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Wednesday 12th February 2014 Written Statements

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

It is normal practice, when a Government Department proposes to undertake a contingent liability in excess of £300,000 for which there is no specific statutory authority, for the Department concerned to present to Parliament a minute giving particulars of the liability created and explaining the circumstances; and to refrain from incurring the liability until 14 parliamentary sitting days after the issue of the minute, except in cases of special urgency.

Last year the Charity Commission matched the anonymised personal data of all trustees and charity correspondents registered with the Charity Commission against the CIFAS national fraud database on a pilot basis for which CIFAS membership was not necessary. The level of resulting matches to fraud risk were of concern and the board of the Charity Commission directed that it become a member of CIFAS to carry out a further pilot to develop clear information to: inform on the need for any action against individuals; support the development of a fraud risk profile for the sector; provide a means of checking new trustees and correspondents for linkage to fraud and right to remain in the UK. The commission proposes piloting this by the end of March 2014, by which time it will need to have joined CIFAS. The Charity Commission proposes continuing its membership without break after the first year should the pilot prove successful.

The minute therefore confirms the Charity Commission plans to enter into CIFAS membership shortly and that it will need to sign an indemnity with CIFAS.

A public authority may become (and subject to the rules of CIFAS, remain) a member of CIFAS provided that it is empowered and authorised (among other requisites) to execute the required deed of indemnity. The Charity Commission must provide a written indemnity, irrevocably indemnifying CIFAS, its chairman and directors, members, affiliates, participating agencies, participating users and employees of CIFAS, on or prior to joining CIFAS, against claims resulting from any breach of statutory duty or breach of the Data Protection Act 1998 on the part of the Charity Commission in connection with its membership of CIFAS.

The Charity Commission must subscribe to the CIFAS group libel insurance scheme, which underpins the CIFAS indemnity arrangements. The upper limit of indemnity for the insurance scheme is currently limited to £5 million —plus an excess agreed annually, currently £5,000. The deed of indemnity is, however, unlimited and therefore covers amounts claimed in excess of £5 million or, where a claim results from the provision of inaccurate data deemed avoidable, the entire value of the claim.

The departmental minute notifies Parliament of the Charity Commission’s intention to execute this deed of indemnity and subscribe to the CIFAS group libel insurance scheme. The notification to Parliament is proposed to last for three years from commencement of CIFAS membership. The Charity Commission shall, of course, provide further notification if the undertaking is likely to change within this period. The situation will be reviewed after three years and, if the Charity Commission intends to maintain its CIFAS membership, Parliament will be notified accordingly.

The Charity Commission does not consider the risk of the indemnity being called upon to be significant. The Charity Commission will only share data where it is lawful to do so and in accordance with the provisions of the Data Protection and Human Rights Acts. Maintaining accurate and up-to-date information will limit the chance of incorrect information being passed to CIFAS. All information will be shared in a secure manner in line with Cabinet Office guidelines on transferring data. Further, a CIFAS member that receives a CIFAS warning from the system is not allowed to automatically refuse an application or to close a facility because of the warning. They are required to make further enquiries to confirm personal identification details before making a decision. If a liability is called, provision for any payment will be sought through the normal estimates procedure.

The Treasury has approved this proposal in principle. If, during the period of 14 parliamentary sitting days beginning on the date on which this minute was laid before Parliament, a Member signifies an objection by giving notice of a parliamentary question or by otherwise raising the matter in Parliament, final approval to proceed with incurring the liability will be withheld pending an examination of the objection.

I am arranging for the minute to be deposited in the Library of the House.

Oral Answers to Questions

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Wednesday 29th January 2014 Commons Chamber

[Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab)]

10. What steps he is taking to maintain the level of youth services provision.

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

We are strong believers in the value of high-quality youth services. We will shortly publish a report on what local authorities are doing to comply with their statutory duty, along with our plans to support those who want to deliver high-quality services in an innovative way.

[Julie Hilling]

As the Minister says, local authorities have a duty to secure sufficient educational leisure-time activity for the improvement of well-being and the personal and social development of young people, but the average cut to youth services has been 27%, with some local authorities cutting their youth service budgets completely. What measures is he taking to ensure that local authorities meet their statutory responsibilities, and how is he measuring the impact of the cuts on the well-being of young people?

[Mr Hurd]

The statutory duty exists. We are concerned about the vulnerability of youth services, as is the hon. Lady. It is a mixed picture: boroughs such as the London borough of Hillingdon in my constituency, for example, are investing more in youth services now because they fixed the roof when the sun was shining, but there are cuts. We are finding out an accurate picture of what is happening, because we did not have one, and we will shortly publish the offer we can make to local authorities that want to commission services in an innovative way.

[Sarah Champion]

Following on from that last answer, does the Minister agree that it will be difficult, if not impossible, to provide a fair start to all young people in Rotherham, given the £970,000 cuts to the youth service with which the council is now forced to deal?

[Mr Hurd]

I fully accept that there are very challenging pressures on local authorities as a result of the cuts. Each of them is dealing with the cuts in different ways. What we sitting in the centre can do is map what is happening, help local authorities by signposting other sources of funding, help them to look at examples of good innovative practice around the country and help them if they are really committed to commissioning high-quality services for young people. We know the value of those services, and we are absolutely committed to them.

[Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con)]

Will the Minister be mindful of the Youth Commission report on the role of youth workers in schools, which I chaired? It highlighted the value of qualified and empathetic youth workers supporting young people in school settings on healthy living and engagement issues. Will he urge colleagues in the Department for Education to make sure that Ofsted take that into account in their inspections?

[Mr Hurd]

I am certainly very happy to raise that with colleagues in the Department for Education. Over the years, I have developed a deep admiration for the work of youth workers, who can have an extraordinary impact on young people. I will therefore raise that point with other Departments.

[Sir Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

These questions tend to ignore the enormous amount of voluntary work already done by youth organisations in our constituencies—people helping young homelessness projects, street pastors, sea cadets, air cadets, Army cadets, scouts and guides. Huge numbers of youth organisations are run or assisted by adult volunteers, and they do not need the intervention of the state to thrive and prosper.

[Mr Hurd]

I fully agree with my right hon. Friend’s points. A huge number of organisations seek to help and develop young people. Part of the challenge for us is to try to connect them with local authorities, which have a statutory duty, to see whether services at local level can be joined up more effectively for the benefit of young people in the area.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

Will the Minister hold discussions with the relevant Ministers in the devolved legislatures to ensure that best practice in youth service provision right across the United Kingdom is replicated to the benefit of young people throughout the UK?

[Mr Hurd]

Such provision is a devolved matter, but we are having active conversations with devolved Administrations, specifically about the opportunity to develop the National Citizen Service in other areas. I am absolutely delighted that we have been able to run very successful pilots in Northern Ireland, and we are in active conversations with other Administrations to follow that lead.

[Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend on the remarkable start that the National Citizen Service has made and on all that is happening. May I urge him to meet the Marine Society to talk about what sea cadets and other parts of its very successful existing portfolio can deliver for it?

[Mr Hurd]

I would be delighted to have such a conversation. We have had very constructive conversations so far with the cadets about links that could be made with the National Citizen Service. As we look to expand it very ambitiously, we are obviously open to conversations with any organisations that can help.

[Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab)]

The Minister has previously said that youth services are too easy a target for cuts, and he was right. In fact, his Government have squeezed councils so hard that they have presided over £300 million- worth of cuts to youth services, but at the same time they have squandered £241 million on free school places in areas where they are not needed. Ministers’ pet projects or young people—will he tell the House which he thinks are more important?

[Mr Hurd]

The hon. Lady totally ignores the reason why there are cuts in the system, which is to get control of the deficit that we inherited. We passionately believe in the value of youth services for young people. That is why we have developed the National Citizen Service, which has an evidence base to support the value that it gives to young people. As I have said, we are now prepared to work with local authorities to see how they can commission, in an innovative way, really effective youth services in their area.

[Mr Graham Allen (Nottingham North) (Lab)]

4. What progress he has made on developing social finance.

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

Britain is proud to lead the world in developing the emerging market of social investment. Big Society Capital has already committed £140 million, and the number of social impact bonds has risen sharply. Grants are flowing to help social entrepreneurs to become more investment-ready, and a new tax relief will go live in April.

[Mr Allen]

I refer to my entry in the Register of Members’ Financial Interests.

Having properly evidenced early-intervention programmes is the biggest known deficit reduction programme. In order for such programmes to start up, we need effective social finance. Will the Minister meet me to discuss what more his Department and, above all, Big Society Capital can do to maximise that possibility?

[Mr Hurd]

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his leadership in setting up the Early Intervention Foundation and on the work that it published today on domestic violence. He is entirely right that part of the value of social investment is its ability to create space to finance early intervention. That is where a lot of the social impact bonds that I mentioned are focused. I know from my conversations with Big Society Capital that it is very interested in engaging with What Works centres, including the Early Intervention Foundation. Following the hon. Gentleman’s question, I will write to the chief executive, asking him to update me on his engagement with the Early Intervention Foundation and other What Works centres.

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the social impact of the delivery of public services should be taken account of during the procurement process, as well as the purely economic impact?

[Mr Hurd]

Yes, the Government agree with that. That is why we put the Public Services (Social Value) Act 2012 on the statute book. Later this month, we will publish a one-year-on review of that Act, because it matters to us. We are keen for commissioners—the people who spend public money—to think intelligently about how money can be stretched as far as possible.

[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

5. What assessment he has made of the efficacy of privatised shared services across central Government Departments.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

A new, independent organisation called the NCS Trust has been established to lead the programme in 2014. We are delighted that more than 70,000 young people have had this hugely positive experience since 2011. The trust will build on that success. In 2014, more young people than ever will have the opportunity to take part in the National Citizen Service.

[Mark Pawsey]

In September last year, I joined 40 young people on Big Challenge Sunday. Guided by the park ranger, Trevor Hoyte, they painted fences and picked litter in Rugby’s Caldecott park. That was appreciated by local people and the young people gained valuable life skills. Should not Members from across the House encourage more people to take part in the National Citizen Service?

[Mr Hurd]

Yes, we should. I thank my hon. Friend for his support for the National Citizen Service. The NCS has a twin value: it gives young people the chance to do something in their community and, as he said, it helps them to develop confidence and skills that will make them more employable. That is why we are so ambitious for it and why there is cross-party support for it, led by the Leader of the Opposition.

[Karen Lumley (Redditch) (Con)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

St John Ambulance

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Wednesday 22nd January 2014 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Turner.

I have a great deal of personal respect for all three Members of Parliament who supported this debate—my hon. Friends the Members for North Thanet (Sir Roger Gale) and for Canterbury (Mr Brazier), and the hon. Member for North East Derbyshire (Natascha Engel)— and I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for North Thanet on securing it. I know they would not have brought their concerns about the governance of St John Ambulance to this place in a cavalier way. My hon. Friend spoke in both sorrow and anger and I think regretted that he needed to come here to talk about the issue. We must take it seriously because the concerns are about a massively important institution in this country. The fact that this debate has been so well attended, even though it is arguably about something specific to a constituency, is testament to the importance of the institution described memorably by my right hon. Friend the Member for Banbury (Sir Tony Baldry) as making the difference between a life lost and a life saved.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Banbury, my hon. Friends the Members for North Wiltshire (Mr Gray), for Waveney (Peter Aldous) and for Braintree (Mr Newmark) and the hon. Members for Colchester (Sir Bob Russell) and for Batley and Spen (Mike Wood) all took time to come here and record their thanks and thoughts on this extraordinarily important institution.

I normally agree with everything that the hon. Member for Colchester says, but he was wrong about one thing. He said that the senior management of St John Ambulance would be reading Hansard carefully tomorrow. Well, they will not have to, because they are sitting right behind him, which is testimony—I thought he had eyes in the back of his head, but I was clearly wrong—to how seriously they take this debate and the concerns that have been raised in this place. The Charity Commission is represented here as well, so the debate has left its mark.

As many Members have said, the challenges facing St John Ambulance are well aired. As the hon. Member for Newcastle upon Tyne Central (Chi Onwurah) stated, such challenges are faced by a lot of voluntary organisations—big, small or medium-sized—around the country, because this is an extraordinarily difficult time to be running voluntary organisations. The response of the management of St John Ambulance and the trustees has clearly been radical and controversial. They are not unique in that. As many Members have said, it is not surprising that people have very different views about the rights and wrongs of the strategy. As my hon. Friend the Member for North Wiltshire made clear, it is not something on which the Government have a view, and as a Minister I do not have a view. That is for the trustees and the members and supporters of the organisation.

What is relevant to us—it was the laser-like focus of my hon. Friends the Members for Canterbury and for North Thanet—is the role of the Charity Commission. That role is extremely important and challenging. We ask the commissioners to be guardians of the integrity of one of the most important sectors of our society, the voluntary sector. That integrity and trust mobilises £14.6 billion-worth of our constituents’ money and millions of hours of volunteering each year, and such integrity and trust is hugely important. There is no doubt that the Charity Commission is operating under very challenging circumstances, given budgetary pressures and the high profile failings that have been identified in the past.

The Charity Commission is under new leadership. There is a new board, which we have confidence in. The leadership have made it clear that they think they can perform their role within the existing budget, but our message to them is that we want them to hunker down on their core regulatory role, because of its importance and because we think that in the past they have gone off-mission. We want them to tackle issues of serious abuse.

The powers of the Charity Commission’s leadership are clear. They do not have a power to intervene outside of a formal inquiry, which is appropriate only where there is serious mismanagement or abuse. They can intervene only where there is serious risk of significant harm to or abuse of a charity, its assets, beneficiaries or reputation, and where the Commission considers that its intervention is a necessary and proportionate response to protect those. Otherwise, the law specifically prohibits the Charity Commission from acting in the administration of a charity. The commissioners do not want to do that, because that is a matter for the trustees. Such interference would conflict with the independence of charities and their trustees being—this is important—one of the cornerstones of charity law in England and Wales, provided they act within the law and the terms of the charity’s governing documents.

The trustees of a charity are ultimately responsible for its management. They have broad discretion to exercise the powers open to them under charity law and the charity’s governing document as they consider the best interests of the charity and its beneficiaries. That is the framework under which the Charity Commission operates. I know the Kent Members of Parliament—my hon. Friends the Members for Canterbury and for North Thanet—do not agree with its position, but the commissioners feel they have not seen any evidence that funds have been wrongly classified or misappropriated by the trustees. In the absence of such evidence, they feel they have no regulatory remit, although they stress they have provided advice on resolving the dispute.

I have no grounds on which to challenge such a position. I welcome the fact that the commissioners have agreed to meet the Members. I would be disappointed if that was solely because of the noise around this debate, but I am assured that a meeting will take place. On the basis of this debate, and because of the importance of the underlying issue, I will write to the chair of the Charity Commission to seek his assurances that the charity commissioners have looked at the issue in a proper way and not in a dismissive way. I would like that assurance and I welcome the commitment to a meeting.

On the attitude of St John Ambulance—the seriousness with which it sees the debate is reflected by its presence here—I spoke to the chief executive this morning. She was adamant about the commitment of the trustees to support the St John home. That has been put in writing, but I had her personal assurance on that and her personal commitment to meet both Kent Members of Parliament in person for a discussion.

I was obviously concerned to hear about accusations of high-handed and remote bureaucracies in London, but the leadership are prepared to sit down with both MPs to discuss the concerns in person, which I welcome. I imagine there is a great deal of local unease underlying this, not least from the families of the residents of the home, where the uncertainty is unsettling. It would be good if that concern could be settled at a local level, but those who have concerns about the governance of the charity will have the opportunity to discuss them with the leadership of the charity. It is a magnificent national institution.

The Government recognise everything that Members have said about the importance of the charity. As Minister responsible for youth, I recognise the extraordinarily valuable role that it plays in training young people; as my hon. Friend the Member for Braintree said, the number of young people being trained grew significantly last year. So its work is enormously important, and it is critically important that we continue to take great pride in this institution and trust it.

This debate has secured an important objective in airing Members’ concerns and in ensuring that both the Charity Commission and the leadership of the charity itself respond to those concerns. I welcome that.

Oral Answers to Questions

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Wednesday 11th December 2013 Commons Chamber

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

3. What recent progress he has made on the Government ICT Strategy.

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

We have created a world-class Government web presence. We believe that we saved £500 million in 2012-13 through better IT spend controls, and our digital by default strategy is transforming 25 of the most significant Government transactions by making them easier for users and cheaper for taxpayers.

[Nick Smith]

Meanwhile, in the real world, the new Army recruitment contract with Capita is a shambles. Why did the Government not plan the ICT better so that the new recruitment processes and Ministry of Defence systems worked better?

[Mr Hurd]

I have to tell the hon. Gentleman that the real world we inherited was an absolute shambles in terms of how Government managed IT transactions. His is the party that gave us tax credits and the NHS IT system. What we have done is to put in proper controls and create the conditions in which smaller and leaner organisations can come in and offer better value.

[Mr Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)]

May I commend my hon. Friend the Minister and the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General for the excellent work they have done in ICT? But is it not still ludicrously impossible to get around the silly Treasury rules about recruiting, retaining and rewarding the necessary staff with the necessary expertise to be the single responsible owners with continuous oversight of projects? Does that not show that civil service reform has not gone nearly far enough, and that that justifies a commission on the future of the civil service that only Parliament can provide?

[Mr Hurd]

I recognise my hon. Friend’s consistent commitment to the idea of improving the capability of the civil service. However, I do not think I agree with his premise, and I invite him to visit the Government’s digital service because he will see a department that feels unlike any other in Government. It is full of extraordinary talent that has come in to work for Government, often at below market rates, because they want to make that difference.

[Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)]

The arrogant complacency of the Minister’s answers shows just how out of touch he is. Some 80% of Government interactions take place with the bottom 25% of society, but only 15% of people living in deprived areas use a Government service online. The promised assisted digital provision is still nowhere to be seen, locking our citizens out of his digital democracy. That is why Labour has announced a review of digital government, to make it work for the many, not the few. Is it not time that he did the same?

[Mr Hurd]

Again, we absolutely will not take any lessons from the Labour party about digital government. We are committed to the idea of transforming the great digital service. The feedback has been tremendous so far, and we have a hard commitment that every transformation will be accompanied by an assisted digital programme.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Kettering borough council, of which I have the privilege of being a member, is having great difficulty in complying with the Cabinet Office protocols on e-mail traffic with local government. May I arrange a meeting with the Minister and a representative from the authority so that we can get this sorted out?

[Mr Hurd]

I have heard that from other sources, not least in my own local authority, so I am happy to take that matter up with my hon. Friend directly.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

5. What steps he is taking to increase the number of people involved with charity.

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

Our recent report encouraging social action set out what we have done to make it easier for people to give time and money, and I hope that the hon. Gentleman will join me in welcoming the news that volunteering has risen sharply since 2012 after years of decline.

[Mr Cunningham]

I hope the Minister will elaborate further. Only 9% of people are responsible for giving two-thirds of donations to charity. Will he elaborate on his previous answer?

[Mr Hurd]

The hon. Gentleman makes an important point and he is right to say that we rely on an extremely generous minority who do most of the giving. Britain has risen in the league table and is now the sixth most generous country in the world. Millions of our fellow citizens and constituents give time on a regular basis, and volunteering has risen since 2012 after years of decline. We think we have made a contribution to that.

[Mr Gary Streeter (South West Devon) (Con)]

May I add my support for the many people who volunteer to support charities? Does my hon. Friend agree that the investigation by the Public Accounts Committee into the pay of senior executives of charities is a good step in the right direction to ensure that volunteers are following people who are being reasonably paid?

[Mr Hurd]

I certainly agree that our voluntary sector relies on trust and integrity, and there should be transparency on administration costs and salary expenses. Individual salary pay is not an issue for Government; it is an issue between trustees and donors.

[Mr Gregory Campbell (East Londonderry) (DUP)]

In any discussions the Minister may have with some of the main charities, will he debate with them the need for them to promote their work in a proactive way, while safeguarding against what some regard as assertive and over-aggressive actions by charity collectors who try to obtain direct debits on the street? There is concern about the level of assertiveness on the street.

[Mr Hurd]

We certainly do have those conversations with the chief executives of some of the largest charities. The activity the hon. Gentleman describes raises at least £100 million a year, so we cannot ignore that. We must, however, ensure that it is regulated effectively so it does not put people off and tarnish the brands of the charities we need to support.

[Mary Macleod (Brentford and Isleworth) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend join me in thanking the many people in my constituency who work for charities and who volunteer? Will he update the House on what is happening in schools to encourage the next generation of young people to work for charities and volunteer more?

[Mr Hurd]

My hon. Friend is a great champion of the voluntary sector in her constituency. I am delighted to place on record my appreciation of volunteers across the country. As she points out, it is vital that we inspire the next generation. That is why national programmes, such as the National Citizen Service and the cross-sector and cross-party campaign—Step up to Service—we support to double the number of young people involved in regular volunteering are so important. I hope she welcomes them.

[Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op)]

6. What recent discussions he has had with charities and voluntary organisations on levels of demand for their services.

[Andy McDonald (Middlesbrough) (Lab)]

9. What recent discussions he has had with charities and voluntary organisations on levels of demand for their services.

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

I have regular discussions with charities and voluntary organisations. The anecdotal evidence is that many are experiencing higher demand for their services. It is a challenging environment and we all know that. However, I am encouraged that charity income appears to be steady, volunteering is up, giving has remained stable and social investment has risen. It is challenging, yes, but there is good news out there.

[Gavin Shuker]

The Government expect charities and voluntary organisations to step in in many places where the state has pulled out. However, the Minister recently said:

“frankly I don’t think the government does understand civil society.”

Why did he say that?

[Mr Hurd]

Because for years, not least under 13 years of Labour, government and civil society did not mix or take the time to understand each other. Our commitment to open public service is not about replacing things but trying to create the space for charities and social enterprises to help us deliver better public services. There are different cultures and we have to take the time to understand each other better and make the process work better.

[Andy McDonald]

A recent survey by The Guardian’s voluntary sector network revealed that 47% of respondents had no confidence in the Government’s approach to the third sector. Rather than just yet another failed relaunch of the big society initiative, would it not be better if Ministers started to actually listen to charities, large and small, to find out what support they need?

[Mr Hurd]

I have spent a lot of my time listening to charities and voluntary sector organisations over the past five or six years, and I would point out to the hon. Gentleman and the Labour party, which continues to talk down the sector, that the sector’s greatest asset, the British public, continue to support it more and more. Charitable giving has been steady through difficult times and levels of volunteering and social investment have been rising. The Government have done a great deal to make it easier for charities through difficult times.

[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

My hon. Friend will be aware that Essex county council is currently consulting on the future of youth services and that some difficult decisions lie ahead. He is meeting the Essex county councillor concerned. Will he give every support possible to youth services in Harlow and do everything he can to support Essex council so that we can protect our youth services?

[Mr Hurd]

My hon. Friend has written to me about this matter, and I congratulate him on his work. I am committed to meeting the decision makers at Essex county council, as I met with decision makers in Cornwall yesterday. There is a very real issue about the future of youth services and why they have been so easy to cut, and I remain passionately committed to young people having access to high-quality youth work.

[Richard Fuller (Bedford) (Con)]

Church leaders in Bedford have been instrumental in setting up and operating the food bank there. With demand for food bank services increasing across the country, will my hon. Friend join me in meeting representatives from local churches in Bedford to understand the complex reasons why demand for food bank services is increasing?

[Mr Hurd]

I thank my hon. Friend for that question, because the Labour party tries to make far too many political points about food banks. The underlying issues are complex and their number is growing, and the Government are supporting them with investment through our social action fund. Food banks are a magnificent human response to difficult times, and we should place on the record our recognition of the work being done to support them across the country in responding to need.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

7. What recent progress his Department has made on improving efficiency across Government.

--- Later in debate ---

[Tim Loughton (East Worthing and Shoreham) (Con)]

Given the continued funding pressures on youth services, will the Minister update us on how his Department is using the Positive for Youth policy to maximise resources for a better joined-up youth offer between local authorities, voluntary services and businesses to provoke young people’s engagement and a youth voice?

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

First, let me recognise my hon. Friend’s long-standing advocacy for young people and his authorship of the initial Positive for Youth programme. Yes, we are very concerned about cuts to youth services at the local level. The Cabinet Office is mapping exactly what is going on at the moment and stands ready to work with local authorities to help them comply with their statutory duty and work more creatively with other local partners in delivering fantastic opportunities for young people to develop themselves through access to high-quality youth work.

[Mr Speaker]

It is time for the lion’s roar. I call John Robertson.

The Charity Commission's Powers

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Wednesday 4th December 2013 Written Statements

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

I am today publishing for public consultation a range of proposals to strengthen the powers of the Charity Commission to tackle serious abuse in charities and to extend the range of criminal offences that would disqualify people from being a charity trustee. The consultation will run until 12 February 2014.

Deliberate abuse of charities remains rare, but where it does take place it is important that the Charity Commission has the tools it needs to act swiftly and decisively to protect public trust and confidence in charities. The National Audit Office has criticised the Charity Commission for failing to effectively regulate charities. The Charity Commission has accepted that it needs to improve its regulatory effectiveness, and there is already evidence of progress under the direction of its new board.

The National Audit Office also recommended that Cabinet Office support a legislative bid for stronger Charity Commission powers. The proposed changes on which we are consulting have been requested by the Charity Commission, which fully supports this consultation.

The changes include:

proposals to extend the criminal offences which automatically bar a person from acting as a charity trustee; a proposal for a new discretionary power for the Charity Commission to disqualify a person who is unfit from acting as a charity trustee; a proposed new power to enable the Charity Commission to effectively close down a charity; a proposed new statutory warning power; extensions of several existing powers and technical changes to close various loopholes.

I am particularly keen for charities and their representative bodies to contribute their views in the consultation and help to shape and prioritise the proposed changes. These changes will benefit charities as they will promote public trust and confidence in the effective regulation of charities.

The consultation is available on http://www.gov.uk and I have arranged for copies to be deposited in the Libraries of both Houses.

Government Contracts

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Tuesday 3rd December 2013 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Streeter—I think for the first time—and to respond to an important debate. I congratulate the hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Meg Hillier) on securing the debate, and on presenting it in such a clear and compelling way, rooted in her experience as a former Minister responsible for procurement in the Home Office and a member of the Public Accounts Committee. I am reassured by her telling me that my reading of the upcoming report will be a pleasure. That will be a first, and I await it with bated breath.

The issue that the hon. Lady has raised is enormously important, and I want to persuade her that the Government, and the Cabinet Office in particular, are absolutely committed to trying to open up more space for small and medium-sized enterprises to come in and offer the value and the innovation that she has talked about. I do not want to appear at all complacent, because although we think we have made some good progress, we know that we are nowhere near where we want to be, considering the scale of the opportunity.

The matter is extremely important, not least given the state of the public finances and the situation that we inherited. It is important to recognise where we started. As I think the hon. Lady recognised, what we might call the outsourced public service market was entirely dominated by large private sector organisations, and small companies had little room to come in and improve the situation. I recognise a lot of her analysis about how off-putting and complex the whole concept of bidding for Government contracts is for those running a small business, which I have done myself. It is hard enough work as it is without having to wander through a swamp of bureaucracy and difficulties.

We inherited that situation, which was compounded by the fact that Government did not know how much they spent with major suppliers. I am glad that the hon. Lady referred to the fact that the Minister for the Cabinet Office and Paymaster General has been in post since the start of the process, because that has made a great deal of difference. We are trying to drive a culture change across the system, and he has been extraordinarily persistent in trying to achieve that. The results of the work of the Efficiency and Reform Group, which we created, have been dramatic. We saved the taxpayer £10 billion last year alone compared with 2010, of which £3.8 billion came from commercial areas and £800 million from better engaging with strategic suppliers. There was no rocket science involved; the Government simply woke up to the fact that we sit on top of a powerful buying machine, which makes it possible to secure much better terms. We can leverage our scale to get better value and resolve performance disputes more quickly.

[Mr McKenzie]

The Minister speaks of the culture change that he is trying to establish. Will he comment on the McClelland report and how it has been embraced by other parts of the country?

[Mr Hurd]

We are trying to embrace a culture change. There was a culture of buying big and buying badly in a very risk-averse way, and we are trying to improve that—to touch on a point alluded to by the hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch—not least by instilling much greater commercial capability and confidence in the system. A saving of £10 billion in one year is an important improvement, which is equivalent to about £600 per UK household. That is real money, which has real-world impact. Within that, we have been working hard to improve the procurement processes that the hon. Lady quite rightly criticised. We need to make it easier and cheaper for firms, particularly smaller ones, to bid for work.

In the context of my main responsibilities as Minister for Civil Society, I might add that we are particularly keen that charities and social enterprises feel they have more space and a level playing field on which to compete. The hon. Lady mentioned the length of procurement times, and we have cut the length of the average procurement by 40%, which makes the UK faster, we think, than any of our European neighbours. I am always delighted to hear about specific cases where the procurement process has been too long and too clunky, but we have taken a big step in the right direction.

Part of the process is improving our commercial capability and confidence at the heart of the civil service, so 1,800 officials have already been trained in procurement and 150 leaders have been through the Major Projects Leadership Academy in Oxford. We need to go much further, as I have said, and get smarter at managing performance. For the first time, the Government have allowed past performance to be taken into account when bids for new work are evaluated. It is astonishing that that has not happened before. Suppliers can now be rated high risk when there are material performance concerns, and we have introduced a new approach for managing gross misconduct. Our long-term goal remains the creation of a vibrant, competitive marketplace. Where bad practice is uncovered, we will crack down on it robustly. We intend to continue to build on the progress of the past three years, focusing on commercial capability and promoting transparency.

I turn to the meat of the hon. Lady’s contribution on behalf of businesses in her constituency. We are absolutely determined to wrestle with some of the challenges, problems and barriers to which she alluded, to make it easier for small businesses to come in, compete and give those spending taxpayers’ money more choice and more access to the innovation that we desperately need. She talked about procurement time, and, as I have said, we have reduced the average turnaround time from advert to contract award by more than 40% to 100 working days. That is better than France and better than Germany. Within that, small procurements can be much quicker, and we are keen to continue to improve. Some progress has, therefore, been made in that area.

The hon. Lady talked about contract complexity, which I definitely recognise as a problem; the contract with some 150 key performance indicators that she mentioned is simply extraordinary. Our next step to try to simplify the system and introduce more consistency is to release a model contract for services, which sets out best-practice contracting approaches and includes a streamlined performance management regime.

The hon. Lady asked about intellectual property, which is of particular interest to technology companies in her constituency, and whether the Government still demanded that intellectual property be handed over to them. Our approach is to make that decision on a case-by-case basis. In the new model service contract, ownership of previously existing intellectual property rights will stay with the author. If the Government pay for new IPR to be created, however, in some circumstances it will be appropriate to retain ownership.

[Meg Hillier]

I am heartened by what the Minister has said. It would be helpful if people knew the position at the beginning of the process, because such hurdles are often added during the bid, which sends a very negative message around the small business community.

[Mr Hurd]

I take that point on board, and I give the hon. Lady an undertaking to feed it into the system as we look at the model contract and the best-practice contracting approaches. She spoke passionately about the need to open up more opportunities for SMEs, and I assure her that we are committed to doing so. She challenged me to get beyond mere words, and those are not just words; we can now talk about numbers. Since 2010, overall spend from Government with SMEs has increased by £1.5 billion, which is serious money. We are not concerned simply about the relentless pursuit of value for money for the taxpayer. Given the recent economic circumstances and the search for growth, it is in the interests of the taxpayer and the country that we support growth where it can be generated. As we all know, SMEs are the engine of growth in the economy, so the agenda is extremely important. As she knows, the Government set out an aspiration that 25% of Government spending should go to SMEs. Although the data are not perfect—I would not claim they were—we think about 19% of Government spending is directly and indirectly with SMEs. That is progress.

The hon. Lady talked about IT in particular. I know she has a specific constituency interest there. We are keen to break down Government contracts in IT into smaller sizes, which is essential if we are to capture the value that the SME community can bring. The massive differences in prices between the old suppliers producing old technology the old way and what can be done now through new technology are absolutely extraordinary. We are determined to break such contracts open. New presumptions are set against information and communications technology contracts worth more than £100 million and we have published an ICT strategy that explicitly supports smaller, more disaggregated approaches. We have also launched CloudStore. Some 58% of the first £54.5 million spent on CloudStore went to SMEs, which benefited from 66% of sales by number. Interestingly, the Foreign Office is a good example of success; rather than have a single ICT provider, it has split a single contract into three. G-Cloud has around 1,000 SMEs on it, which have won 66% of contract awards by number. We have also just announced the digital services framework, where SMEs constitute 84% of suppliers. I hope I can assure her that, in that space, there are not just words, but genuine achievements to point to in creating the frameworks and space for SMEs to come in and supply us with innovation and the potential to add huge amounts of value to the Government ICT spend.

The hon. Lady mentioned bad practice and sham practices in local government. The reach of central Government and the Cabinet Office in limiting local government has limits. We have, however, consulted on Lord Young’s recommendations on how we can extend some of what we have learnt in central Government and make it available for local authorities, so they can improve their procurement practice and, in particular, make it easier for SMEs to participate. We shall relentlessly bear down on the need for pre-qualification questionnaires below a certain threshold of contract. Contracts Finder has been enormously popular. It contains all opportunities worth more than £10,000. More that 19,000 contracts have been published online and 31% of contract awards have gone to SMEs. For the first time, we have published a contracts pipeline, with £169 billion-worth of contract opportunities.

We have set up a mystery shopper scheme to address bad practice and the need to blow a whistle on bad processes or notify us when things are not being done in the right way. The scheme allows suppliers to report poor procurement practice across the public sector. So far, more than 550 cases have been received, of which more than 100 have been successfully resolved in local government.

Payment terms are enormously important, because cash flow is everything when running a small business. The hon. Lady rightly asked about payment terms and whether the Cabinet Office plans to make it mandatory for large contractors to pay their subcontractors within 30 days of receipt for payment. Yes, is the answer. The Government pay all undisputed invoices within five days. We have mandated prime contractors to pay subcontractors within 30 days, through the inclusion of a contract condition in the contracts we write. The new model contract I mentioned will reinforce that, because it is enormously important. We recently consulted on Lord Young’s recommendation that those contract conditions be adopted across the whole of the public sector. There is a tremendous amount of ambition.

The hon. Lady talked about the need for post-contract audits and the need to improve the way we monitor performance. I and the Government acknowledge that. We want to do more post-contract audit, to focus on how the contract is performing, supported by much greater focus on building commercial capability and contract management in Whitehall. Too much of the capability, resource, process and thinking has been directed at the procurement process, and not at the broader commissioning process and the need to monitor and work with the supply chain after the contract is awarded, to ensure that what we bought is being delivered in the right ways.

The hon. Lady mentioned some barriers that her constituents and others face. She said that, where businesses join forces to bid for a contract, they are required to have three years of audited accounts, which they cannot provide. We are keen to remove as many barriers as possible, so that situation is suboptimal. That is why the Cabinet Office advises procurers not to request three years of audited accounts. We would be keen to review specific cases where such behaviour has occurred. The mystery shopper service is an opportunity for people, and small businesses in particular, to tell us the reality on the ground.

With that broad sweep, I hope that I have convinced the hon. Lady that our commitment to improve goes beyond words. She knows from her time in government and from the evidence she received on the Committee that such work is difficult. It is gritty. We are changing culture. We have to bring in new expertise and capability. We have to challenge the system that was frankly not very efficient at managing and spending public money. For reasons she will recognise, we are determined to secure much better value for the taxpayer, and that includes making it easier for SMEs in her constituency and others to come in and help us with the innovation, value for money and fresh approaches we desperately need.

[Meg Hillier]

I extended an invitation to the Minister, or his officials, to come to Shoreditch. I would be happy to host them on a useful working visit, if he is interested.

[Mr Hurd]

That is a delightful invitation. I can tell the hon. Lady on behalf of the Cabinet Office that we would be happy to accept.

Big Lottery Fund (Triennial Review)

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Thursday 21st November 2013 Written Statements

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

I am today announcing the start of the triennial review of the Big Lottery Fund.

All Government Departments are required to review their non-departmental public bodies at least once every three years. The review will be conducted in two stages. The first stage will examine whether there is a continuing need for the functions performed by the Big Lottery Fund, and whether the organisation should continue to operate in its current form. If it is determined that there is a continuing need for the organisation in its current form, the second stage will assess whether the body’s control and governance arrangements continue to meet the recognised principles of good corporate governance and whether the fund operates in an effective and efficient way.

The findings of both stages of the review will be examined by a challenge group. Copies of the report will be placed in the Libraries of both Houses.

Apprenticeships and Skills (Public Procurement Contracts) Bill

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Friday 1st November 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

This has been a very good debate. The speeches have been passionate, honest, often rooted in personal experience and, for the most part, gratifyingly free of tribal politics in relation to an issue that really should cross the party divide.

We have heard about some fantastic models of intelligent procurement, such as REDS10. We have heard about people in Liverpool, Humberside and other parts of the country who are demonstrating how procurement can be used to squeeze out the maximum value for the taxpayer, with the full encouragement of the Government. We also experienced the seismic revelation that the hon. Member for West Ham (Lyn Brown) enjoys a bit of my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley (Philip Davies) on a Friday morning. I think that my friend and colleague earned the admiration of the House for his composure at that moment. He had to take some time out from the debate, but he retained his composure sufficiently to make an excellent speech, as did my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North (Mr Nuttall). I think that the shade of Eric Forth would have been proud to hear both speeches. They conveyed warmth and cross-party support on the need for more apprentices when they posed the fundamental question of why this law is actually needed, which is the job that we, as legislators, must do.

First and foremost, I must genuinely congratulate the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish (Andrew Gwynne) on his speech. It seems a very long time ago, but it was absolutely brilliant—not least because he secured harmony in the Gwynne household this weekend with his rhapsody about Denton community college, of which his wife is a trustee.

The hon. Gentleman spoke with real passion and conviction of his concern about the level of youth unemployment, which, at 7.6%, is clearly unacceptably high. As he knows, and has heard from Government Members, everyone recognises that the Bill is extremely well-intentioned. My hon. Friend the Member for Harlow (Robert Halfon) spoke to me personally about his support for it. We have taken it very seriously, and the context could not be more important. It is shocking that we as a country are wasting the potential of a million young people. The hon. Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright) was right to speak about that with passion and anger.

The country faces a huge challenge. I am not making a party-political point when I say that the fact that youth unemployment rose by 40% under the last Administration during good times is a source of real concern, and raises serious doubts about the skills and work-readiness of our young people. That has been reflected in survey after survey of employers. The fundamental question is this: how can we ensure that our young people benefit from the gradual recovery in the jobs market? That is a national challenge, and should be seen as such. It is a challenge not just for my party, the Labour party or any other party in the House, but for the private sector, the education system and civil society. So many people care about it that it is a challenge for funders such as the Big Lottery Fund and its Talent Match. So much good will needs to be harnessed to move the needle. That is why the whole debate about academic standards, access to informal learning opportunities for young people—I speak as the Minister for youth—the quality of career guidance and the success of new traineeships, which I greatly welcome, is so important. But the fundamental point of this debate—our level of ambition on the status and priority attached to apprenticeships—is important. It is fundamental, because there has been a missed opportunity; the status of apprenticeships has been too low over time, particularly as they are a win-win—the hon. Member for Worsley and Eccles South (Barbara Keeley) spoke well about that. The evidence is clear that apprenticeships are good for employers, as well as for employees. The evidence shows that those on advanced apprenticeships earn, on average, between £77,000 and £117,000 more over their lifetime, and 72% of employers reported that apprenticeships improved the productivity of their organisation.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I am fully with the Minister in his argument, so far. Does he agree that if we are seeking to drive up the standards of apprentices, as well as to extend the capacity of apprenticeships, it is not wrong to give an empowering facility, as my Bill does, to public bodies to say to contractors, “We expect there to be a proportion of higher and advanced apprenticeships as part of this contract because it is good for our local economy”?

[Mr Hurd]

I have some reservations, which I am going to express, despite the shameless flattery that has been heaped on me, not least by the hon. Member for West Ham. I wish to give the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish some reassurance, not least because of the reservations we have about the need for this particular law, that the ambition he seeks on apprenticeships already exists. As my hon. Friend the Member for Bury North mentioned, this very week the Prime Minister was in Oxford talking about our ambition to be the best in the world. The hon. Gentleman will know that given the fiscal constraints we are under, what we choose to spend our money on does reflect our priorities. The fact of the matter is that we have spent £5.7 billion on apprenticeships since 2010; we have grown them by 1.5 million; and in 2012-13 the current provisional estimate is for about 500,000 apprenticeships. That is building on work that has gone before, but let us be clear: that is double what was available in 2008-09. As my hon. Friend the Member for Shipley said, it is not just about numbers and growth; robust quality is also important.

[Andrew Gwynne]

The Minister is right to say that this is about how we spend the money. That is true of not only central Government, but other public bodies, so does it not empower local government, which does not provide many services directly itself but buys in services from contractors, if it is able to say, “This is what we expect because these are our budgets that we are handing over to you as contractors, and this is what we want in return”?

[Mr Hurd]

The point is that local authorities already have that power. This proposed law does not change anything in terms of regulation or the permission that the system gives to contractors at the moment.

I wish to finish making my point about quality. It is important, and we have put statutory standards in place to ensure that apprenticeships are real jobs and lead to recognised qualifications. I hope that that enjoys the support of the House. We want this to be employer-led. We want to encourage employers because it is absolutely in their interests, and that is how we sustain the momentum behind this as Governments come and go. That is why we have introduced incentive payments of £1,500 for smaller employers, because the attitude of small and medium-sized enterprises is important, to take on up to 10 new apprentices aged 16 to 24. As we have announced this week in the implementation plan, there will be trailblazer projects in the aerospace, automotive, digital industries, energy and utilities, electrotechnical, financial services, food and drink, manufacturing and life sciences and industrial sciences sectors. I hope I have convinced the hon. Gentleman that the ambition that he wants to see is there, not only to build on what was done before, but to take it to a different level.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I have no doubt that the ambition is there, but the Minister will have heard earlier about SETA in the Stockport part of my constituency, an organisation that was established by industry to get apprenticeships and training in a range of high-skill areas. It has raised concerns with me that the apprenticeships are not coming through in the rail industry, the nuclear power industry and so on. There is a role for public procurement in this.

[Mr Hurd]

I certainly agree that there is a lot more to do in supplying apprenticeships and pushing, nudging, encouraging and incentivising various sectors of the economy to be more ambitious and think more intelligently about how they can structure such opportunities.

I want to show the Bill the respect it deserves, and I do so as someone who has been in the same position as the hon. Gentleman and promoted a private Member’s Bill. I want to make it quite clear to him that the ambition he seeks is there. The question we need to ask ourselves is whether we need this law. As I was sitting here during the debate, I could almost see Eric sitting over there, getting ready to speak and to ask that question in a forensic way. We need to get beyond the good intentions; we are legislators. We need to ask ourselves with each snowflake that we add to the mountain of regulation whether we can justify it, whether it will make a difference and whether it will serve its purpose, however well-intentioned the promoter.

[Andrew Gwynne]

Of course, there has to be a problem if we are to address it through good intentions. I contend that there is a problem. Too few apprenticeships are coming through the public procurement route, which is why this Bill is absolutely necessary.

[Mr Hurd]

There is a problem, and we are wasting the potential of 1 million young people in this country. Apprenticeships are part of the response to that, as I have said, and the Government are very proud that we have effectively doubled the number of apprenticeships each year compared with 2008-09. We are in no way complacent, because as Labour Members have said, there is still a great deal more that can be done.

As for whether the law is needed, the point was powerfully made by Government Back Benchers that the existing law and procurement policy give the permission that the hon. Gentleman seeks. I would go further than that. A private Member’s Bill that I, as a Minister, picked up and championed, the Public Services (Social Value) Act 2012, extended that permission. The Act, which came into force in January with cross-party support, places a requirement on commissioners to consider the economic, environmental and social benefits of their approaches to procurement before the process starts. They must also consider whether they should consult on these issues. I put it to the hon. Gentleman that that process, with which contracting authorities around the country, particularly Liverpool and Birmingham, are very engaged, could include consideration of the benefits of any potential apprenticeships to be created under the contract. That is another tool in the box for those who are seeking to develop intelligent models of procurement and trying to squeeze as much value as possible out of every public pound that they are spending. That is exactly what we are trying to encourage.

[Lyn Brown]

I am so disappointed. I genuinely thought that the Minister would be able to listen and work his way through this. How much public money does he think is being wasted by not being used to procure apprenticeships in this country?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Hurd]

I am obviously disappointed to disappoint the hon. Lady. That has rather spoilt my day. There is a fundamental point about value for money, which is that the processes and regulations we have set up absolutely allow what the hon. Member for Denton and Reddish wants and, as I said, the social value Act goes further in seeking that permission. We have set up a commissioning academy to support and create the space for people who are spending taxpayers’ money so that they can think more intelligently about how that can be spent. I give him my pledge that I will use what evidence I have to ensure that in my conversations about the use of that Act, and in the commissioning academy, we ask how apprenticeships can be boosted by those processes so that we can share and spread the best practice that exists and has been articulated extremely well by Opposition Members. As the hon. Gentleman generously said, the DWP has shown intelligent, forward-thinking practice by managing to get approximately 2,000 apprenticeships into its supply chain through its procurement practice.

[Andrew Gwynne]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way in the last remaining seconds. But does he not understand that, laudable though his legislation may be, it does not explicitly give local authorities the power to ask for higher level and advanced level apprenticeships, or to have them advertised in the local economy? That is crucial if we are going to change the life chances of the young—

Oral Answers to Questions

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Wednesday 30th October 2013 Commons Chamber

[Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)]

7. What assessment he has made of the work of the National Citizen Service.

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

The National Citizen Service is growing fast and is proving enormously popular with young people. The research shows clearly that it helps to develop life skills that employers value, and that for every £1 of public money we invest, society is receiving £3 of value back.

[Nick de Bois]

I thank the Minister for that answer. I was privileged to attend a challenge network campaign day in my constituency, where social action projects were put into effective and lasting programmes across the constituency. What steps will the Minister take to roll out the National Citizen Service further and expand it, and will he join me in congratulating the efforts of Enfield youngsters?

[Mr Hurd]

I certainly join my hon. Friend in congratulating Enfield youngsters and all youngsters across the country who have participated in the National Citizen Service on their efforts. He may be interested to know that to date the young people have contributed more than 1 million hours of their time to volunteer and do good work in communities. They get a huge amount out of that process, which is why we are ambitious to grow it and have said that we will make at least 90,000 places available next year.

[Stephen Mosley]

Over the summer, I was delighted to see the excellent work of the National Citizen Service team in Chester, who were redecorating Blacon young people’s project. Has my hon. Friend made an assessment of the monetary value of the work that NCS volunteers do for their local communities?

[Mr Hurd]

I thank my hon. Friend for the keen interest he has shown in the NCS, and many other hon. Members who took the time to visit programmes over the summer. As I said, young people have to date contributed more than 1 million hours of their time to do good work in their communities. Part of the calculation of £3 back for every £1 we spend is the value attached to the voluntary time they are giving. The other part is their increased employability, which reflects the life and work skills they are gathering through participation.

[Paul Flynn (Newport West) (Lab)]

Is the National Citizen Service not heading for that same graveyard of three-word prime ministerial gimmicks like back to basics, the third way, the citizens charter, the cones hotline and the big society?

[Mr Hurd]

Not for the first time, I could not disagree more with the hon. Gentleman. NSC is proving its value across communities. Many Opposition Members visited the programme over the summer and Opposition Front Benchers have nice words to say about it. We are determined to embed it in the youth sector and for it to be part of the landscape of programmes that try to help young people achieve their full potential. We are extremely proud of it. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham) was gesticulating as though he was training to be an opera singer. I have no idea why, but let us hear from the hon. Gentleman.

[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

The gesture was one of frustration and disappointment that some Opposition Members do not seem to understand how valuable the National Citizen Service is. Does my hon. Friend agree that what Gloucestershire college has been doing in my constituency to help people on to this wonderful course, which it is now replicating with a mini course for the new sixth form at the Gloucester academy, is an example of how the NCS can spread into the school curriculum too?

[Mr Hurd]

I could not agree more, in sharp contrast to my response to the hon. Member for Newport West (Paul Flynn). I look forward to visiting my hon. Friend in Gloucester to see in practice what he is talking about. The NCS is growing fast. We are seeing schools and colleges embrace it precisely because they see the value to their pupils of participating in a programme that helps young people develop the confidence, self-esteem and skills that will be valuable to them in life.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

Can the Minister confirm that Serco has cut the funding it makes available to charities under the National Citizen Service? What impact does the Minister think that will have on the charities delivering this important initiative?

[Mr Hurd]

Serco leads a consortium that includes many large and small charities. It is an important provider. We manage our providers very carefully, and when there are signs of underperformance, we take action to protect the taxpayer. The hon. Gentleman would not know anything about that because he represents a party that over time has not represented the taxpayer sufficiently. In the case of Serco and that consortium, we took action to protect the taxpayer, and I am proud of that.

[Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab)]

Last year, 6,000 places on the NCS summer scheme went unfilled, while youth services, which provided continuity, stability and a lifeline for many young people, disappeared. With one in three organisations that provide youth services facing closure, what has the Minister got to say to those young people?

[Mr Hurd]

First, I congratulate the hon. Lady on her promotion. I think she is the fifth shadow Minister I have faced across this Dispatch Box, and I hope she enjoys her time.

There is a serious point about cuts to local youth services by local authorities. We have taken over responsibility for youth policy and want to engage with local authorities to try to protect and enhance those services, but the hon. Lady misses a fundamental point about the NCS: it funds grass-roots youth organisations across the country to work with young people throughout the year—spring, summer and autumn—and therefore it is part of the solution.

[Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con)]

5. What progress his Department has made on the cyber-security programme.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Alan Reid (Argyll and Bute) (LD)]

6. What recent discussions he has held with his ministerial colleagues on the use of the Post Office as a front office for Government services.

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

The hon. Gentleman will know that the Post Office already delivers a number of valuable front-line services for the Government, and it has proved successful in competing for contracts. The Cabinet Office’s engagement at the moment involves conversations about how the Post Office and others might help us to give better support to citizens who are not yet online.

[Mr Reid]

The Minister is correct: the Post Office already delivers a lot of Government services. It has the technology to enable it to back up the Government’s digital agenda and to be the front office for the Government. For example, people without internet access could make universal credit applications through it. Post offices are at the heart of our communities, and I urge the Minister to encourage all Government Departments to make more use of the Post Office.

[Mr Hurd]

I hear that message loud and clear. We are engaging with the Post Office and a number of suppliers about how they can help us with our agenda of encouraging more of our citizens to get online and become digitally capable—and to access Government services online, because that is the direction of travel that we are taking—as well as with the assisted digital programme, which will ensure that none of our citizens is left behind in that process.

[Mr Brian H. Donohoe (Central Ayrshire) (Lab)]

One area of business that was taken from the post offices some time ago was the issuing of TV licences. Has the Minister had any discussions with his ministerial contacts about bringing that service back to the post offices? Many old people still do not have access to the internet.

[Mr Hurd]

As I have said, our conversation with the Post Office is about the broad agenda of digital by default, and about how we can get more of our citizens online. Some 11 million of them are estimated still to be offline, so that is a big challenge. Alongside that, programmes are necessary to ensure that people who do not want to be online can still access Government digital services. I am sure that the Post Office and others will be able to help us in that process.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

Is the Minister aware that the National Federation of SubPostmasters has reported that the income generated by the Government services that its members provide is fairly small? I am all in favour of sub-post offices providing Government services, but the Government must surely be made to pay for that properly.

[Mr Hurd]

Obviously, if post offices are going to provide a service, they need to have the capacity to do that. I have had conversations with postmasters in my area. In the Pinner post office, for example, I have tried out the new technology that is helping citizens to get online and access services locally and to become more digitally capable, and I did not get a sense from that postmaster that there was a problem.

[Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab)]

8. What recent steps he has taken to reduce barriers to small and medium-sized enterprises participating in Government procurement.

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

This Government remain extremely committed to the process of trying to increase the participation of SMEs in central Government procurement, and we believe that at least an additional £1.5 billion has flowed into the SME sector through that process since 2010. That represents progress, but we know that there is still a lot to do.

[Mr Bain]

The Minister has just claimed that direct spend with SMEs has increased since the last election, but will he confirm that the recorded rise in the Ministry of Justice since April 2011 is in fact down to his officials, including law firms, offering legal aid services? When is he going to correct those figures to remove that inaccuracy?

[Mr Hurd]

I am not going to take any lessons from the party opposite. What we inherited in terms of SMEs participating in public procurement was no ambition and no data. This Government are supplying the ambition and trying to ensure that the data are as good as they can be. We are not taking any lectures from the party that had no ambition and no data.

[Michael Fabricant (Lichfield) (Con)]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right to support small businesses, but will he look at the systems in which small businesses are sometimes unable to bid? And may I see him after this Question Time to tell him precisely what I mean by that?

[Mr Hurd]

I am very glad to hear that extension to my hon. Friend’s question, and I certainly accept his invitation. We are absolutely determined to try to remove the barriers to small business participation. For example, we have recently announced the fourth supplier framework for the procurement of Government cloud technology services, and I am delighted to tell him that 84% of those suppliers are SMEs. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. There are far too many noisy private conversations taking place in the Chamber. That is unfair on the Members asking questions and on the Ministers who are trying to make their answers heard.

Topical Questions

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

Will the Government support my private Member’s Bill on 29 November, which is intended to give charitable status to religious institutions? Will they support it?

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

I have already told my hon. Friend that we will not. I understand that there is a lot of concern on both sides of the House about the Plymouth Brethren case, on which we are all united in wanting to see a quick and speedy resolution to that issue.

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

T5. The coalition agreement pledged to limit the number of SpAds—special advisers. Given that the number has risen to 97, what limit do the Government actually want?

Royal British Legion (Norwich)

Nick Hurd Excerpts

Wednesday 23rd October 2013 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Cabinet Office (Mr Nick Hurd)]

It is a great pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Hollobone; I think it is for the first time.

I miss my former ministerial colleague, my hon. Friend the Member for Norwich North (Miss Smith), so I am absolutely delighted to be in a position to respond to her debate, which brings home very clearly just why she is so respected and loved as a champion of Norwich North and of the things that the people there hold dear. I warmly congratulate her on securing this debate and on drawing the attention of the House to the incredibly important work of the Royal British Legion, as well as to concerns about the closure of the Jubilee hall in Norwich.

Just as my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford North (Mr Scott) skilfully intervened to place on record his huge admiration for the work of the Royal British Legion in his constituency, I must also take the opportunity to place on record my recognition of the incredible work done in the “third North”, which is my constituency of Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner, in particular the work of the legion’s branch at Eastcote, which managed to get a cheque out of me and which looks after me incredibly well during the remembrance services there.

This debate has opened my eyes to some other work that the Royal British Legion is doing that I was not aware of—work that is frankly magnificent. For example, there was the recent opening of its centre for blast injury studies at Imperial college London, which is the first collaboration of its kind in the United Kingdom and where civilian engineers and scientists work alongside military doctors to reduce the effect of roadside bombs and improvised explosive devices. The legion has also teamed up with Help for Heroes to officially open the Phoenix House recovery centre in Yorkshire, where injured and sick service personnel from across north England and Scotland can recover and access key services. The legion is an enormously important institution, and I am sure, Mr Hollobone, that it does wonderful work in Kettering too.

Regarding the specific issue of the Jubilee hall in Norwich, I quite understand the passion underpinning that project; I have similar situations in my constituency. My hon. Friend the Member for Norwich North will know that it is not for the Government to intervene in a charity’s decisions, however unpopular they are, but I am absolutely sure that the Royal British Legion will listen very carefully to this debate and will have heard her message about the community’s desire to save Jubilee hall.

My hon. Friend will also know that the Government are very keen to support this kind of community-led response. She mentioned the Localism Act 2011. That Act introduced the community right to bid, which, as she said, allows communities and parish councils to nominate buildings or land for listing by the local authority as an asset of community value. Exploring this option—asking the local authority to list the hall as an asset of community value, in line with the Act—seems eminently sensible.

What my hon. Friend may or may not be aware of is that, at a time when there is not a lot of money around, significant funding is being made available to support communities that want to take over buildings and assets. In June, I was proud to hear the Prime Minister announce a quarter of a billion pounds of funding at an event at the G8, which will be dedicated over the next 10 years by Big Society Capital and the Big Lottery Fund, to help communities own local assets, such as pubs, shops, community centres and sports facilities. More details of that programme will be announced shortly.

My hon. Friend may also be aware that the My Community Rights support programme provides advice and help to eligible community groups to develop business cases and get “investment-ready” to seek support from other sources. Information is readily available on the programme’s website.

I genuinely wish my hon. Friend and her local campaigning group every success and I hope that the Royal British Legion will go the extra mile in helping the community to safeguard what is clearly a very valuable asset.

My hon. Friend also asked me to talk a little about the commemoration plans to mark the centenary of the outbreak of the first world war, which all the speakers today have talked passionately about. They will know that the first world war was a period of almost unparalleled importance in our country’s history. I am proud to say that the Government are taking a strong lead in commemorating the centenary in a way that I hope is appropriate. The centenary will not only focus on military history but on the social and cultural changes that the war brought about, telling not just soldiers’ stories but those of men and women on the home front. We should remember that there were almost 900,000 deaths of British service personnel during the first world war, so it is entirely appropriate that remembrance lies at the heart of the commemoration.

We are working hard to encourage public interest and engagement, showing why the first world war still matters in the 21st century and is relevant to people today—including myself—through their family histories. My hon. Friend will know that the Department for Culture, Media and Sport is the co-ordinating Department, but several Departments are working together to deliver what I hope will be a strong, diverse and inclusive programme. There is strong support from bodies such as the Imperial War museum, the Commonwealth War Graves Commission, the BBC and the Heritage Lottery Fund, all of which have a big role to play in securing public engagement and all of which are represented in the programme’s governance structure.

There will be £53 million of funded activity across a range of undertakings, including a major capital project at the Imperial War museum, Heritage Lottery Fund grants for community projects and moneys for other cultural activity. For example, the first world war centenary battlefield tours project is offering students and teachers from every state-funded secondary school in England the opportunity to visit battlefields and other notable sites and to take part in remembrance ceremonies on the western front. That will be an enormously powerful experience for them. The tours start in spring next year and will run until 2019. Schools, including those in Norfolk, have been piloting the scheme, with pupils visiting battlefields at Ypres and the Somme. More than 1,000 schools have already registered for the tours from next spring, which is well ahead of the planned target. As my hon. Friend the Member for Ilford North said so powerfully, the bravery and suffering of the heroic men and women who gave their lives so selflessly in the great war—including my great uncle—must never be forgotten.

To conclude, the Government recognise the massive contribution that is made by our servicemen and women. The words trip easily enough, but it is important to convey what underlies them with sincerity. The armed forces covenant ensures that we are doing all we can for our armed forces in return for asking them to do dangerous jobs in places such as Afghanistan and Iraq, and the Government take it extremely seriously.

I am proud that the Chancellor was in a position to announce that the LIBOR fines collected from banks for their shockingly bad behaviour and their distortion of British values are being used to provide permanent funding of £10 million per annum to charities working to support military personnel. That money was taken in fines on the worst of values to support organisations working with the best of British values.

On that note, I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Norwich North on her championing of her constituents, the campaign to safeguard the hall and this opportunity for us all to place on record our recognition of the enormously valuable work that the Royal British Legion does. It would be wrong of me to conclude my remarks without congratulating my hon. Friend on her forthcoming marriage to Sandy, who is, I believe, a former paratroop officer. I am sure that her constituents will forgive her for her absence from Remembrance day services and for getting married, even if there are many colleagues in this place who never will.