Universal Credit

Maria Miller Excerpts

Wednesday 9th May 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Maria Miller)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Nottingham East (Chris Leslie) on securing this debate. He is fortunate to have secured such an important debate.

It is fitting that the first Adjournment debate of the Session is on universal credit, because the Gracious Speech today underlined the Government’s commitment to building a fairer, more responsible society, to supporting families to do the right thing, to making work pay and to ending the something-for-nothing culture that gained a foothold in this country for too long under the previous Administration. Universal credit is at the heart of delivering on that commitment.

Universal credit will deliver a simpler and fairer system, and our reforms will put work, whether full time, part time or for just a few hours a week, at the centre of the welfare system. As such, it will extend a ladder of opportunity to those previously excluded or marginalised from the world of work. The current system has an array of 30 different benefits, each with its own rules and criteria and characterised by overlaps, duplication and complication. We all know from our constituency surgeries how bewildering that can be for many individuals.

Claimants need to submit several claims to different agencies to get the support they need and are required to communicate changes in their personal and financial circumstances time and time again. Universal credit will create a much simpler system, by reducing the number of benefits and agencies people have to work with, smoothing their transition into work and making it easier to understand the available support. From 2013, universal credit will provide a new single system of means-tested support for working-age people, whether in or out of work, and will include housing, children, child care costs and additions for disabled people and carers.

As I set out, the main purpose is to help people into work. The new system will remove the distinction between in-work support for those working 16 hours a week or more and out-of-work support for those working fewer than 16 hours a week, eliminating some of those problems we have seen in our constituencies and the need to claim a different set of benefits when starting or ending a job, or when changing working hours.

How a benefit is paid to claimants is important because it will encourage people to manage their budgets in the same way as households. Claimants should be treated as they would if they were experiencing working life. The greater the difference between being out of work and in work, the greater the barrier to returning to work. Universal credit will therefore be administered in one single monthly payment, as the hon. Gentleman mentioned. We will be able to administer the payment on a more frequent basis, where necessary, but we will work closely with the people advising claimants to ensure that the support is there to keep this sort of atypical payment to a minimum. I think he would accept that that is important.

The greater simplicity of universal credit will result in a substantial increase in the take-up of currently unclaimed benefits, with the greatest impact being on poorer families. As I am sure Members know, the combined impact of this increased take-up will lift 900,000 individuals out of poverty, including more than 350,000 children and about 550,000 working-age adults.

The hon. Gentleman did not touch on one child care issue that I would like to bring to the attention of the House. I am sure he will know that child care costs can often be a significant issue for people trying to remain close to the workplace. Universal credit will introduce a new way of supporting families. An extra 80,000 extra families will be eligible to receive support for the first time, because people who are working shorter hours will be able to claim child care support.

The hon. Member for Nottingham East rightly talked about the importance of the digital process—

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[Maria Miller]

As I was saying, the hon. Gentleman rightly picked up on the importance of the online aspect of universal credit. It is designed to be an online service, providing access and support to claimants 24 hours a day. Importantly, it will also provide the service where constituents are, as opposed to where jobcentres are.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for giving way, and I apologise for not being here for the beginning of the debate. I was at another engagement down below, and I did not realise that the Adjournment debate had started.

I feel that certain people in the middle class are going to fall into the child poverty bracket as a result of the introduction of universal credit. What assurance can the Minister give me that such people will not be adversely affected by the changes that the Government are proposing?

[Maria Miller]

I welcome the hon. Gentleman’s intervention. At the point of transition to universal credit, we want to ensure that people will continue to receive the support that they were receiving before, if there have been no changes to their circumstances. It is important for everyone to understand that, as a result of universal credit, we will be making work pay. We will ensure that more people can stay close to the labour market, which will help them not only to get out of poverty but to stay out of it. We all know that families can cycle in and out of poverty; it does not affect a static group of people. It is therefore important that we have that support in place.

I want to get back to the digital nature of universal credit. We make no apology for the fact that this is designed to be an online service. It is designed to be available 24 hours a day, and to be available where claimants are and when it is most convenient for them to use it. The hon. Member for Nottingham East is right to say that that will not be the right approach for absolutely everyone, but let me stay with the group for which it will be the right approach. Estimates show that about 80% of individuals are already accessing services in an online scenario. We are not assuming that 80% will use the online service at the outset; we have always recognised that not everyone will be able to claim online. However, we expect that the proportion who do so will grow over time. We will supplement all of that with a face-to-face and telephone service that will always be available, for just the kinds of groups of people whom the hon. Gentleman referred to.

To ensure that we resolve any issues in advance of the system going live, and that we have the right kind of support in place, we are already working with local authorities on a number of pilot schemes. I urge the hon. Gentleman to look at the work that we are doing with the Local Government Association. We have also recently issued a joint prospectus calling on local authorities to deliver pilots to support residents in preparation for the introduction of universal credit in 2013. The pilots are expected to start in the autumn of this year and to end by September 2013. We will focus on delivering the kind of face-to-face support that individuals might need when claiming universal credit. I hope that he will agree that we will have a wide range of support available. It will be available online, as well as face to face and on the telephone.

The hon. Gentleman is right to say that it is important to get the IT right for this, and we are well under way in our designs and in testing the system to ensure that universal credit is introduced in 2013. Our ambition will, of course, always be to move the majority of people on to use of the online system, and we are working closely with other Government Departments and beyond to ensure that the best possible support is there to enable access to the internet for many people, supporting claimants to get even more value from being online.

The hon. Gentleman expressed an interest in the issue of fraud and the work being done to ensure that safeguards are in place. It will come as no surprise to him to hear that we take the issue of fraud very seriously indeed. Its prevention has been built into the heart of all policy and service design development. Universal credit will be protected by comprehensive and sophisticated cyber-defence and counter-fraud systems, which are currently under development with leading suppliers. I am sure that the hon. Gentleman will want to stay close to the sorts of issues that we are dealing with, but he will understand if I do not go into the details of those systems, as they are sensitive and not for open discussion.

The hon. Gentleman raised the issue of monthly payments, which I have touched on a little already. To be absolutely clear, we believe it important for universal credit to reflect what people experience in the workplace when they are working full time. For the most part, that means being able to budget around a monthly payment, a monthly salary or a monthly amount of money coming in. We will ensure that there is flexibility in the system for those who find that exceptionally difficult, but we believe that this will be an exception and not the rule.

[Jim Shannon]

I can see the logic behind the change to monthly payments, but it is clear that some who get weekly payments are not knowledgeable enough to know how to manage their moneys. Will the Government give any help to those who will depend on single weekly payments to start with, who will then have to manage on monthly payments, on how best to manage their money?

[Maria Miller]

The hon. Gentleman will be reassured to know that my noble Friend Lord Freud is looking at exactly those issues. We know that changing people’s behaviour cannot happen overnight. People need support and we will make sure that we understand the sort of support that will prove the most effective, as the hon. Gentleman would expect us to do.

The hon. Member for Nottingham East talked about the importance of banking in this process. Direct payments to bank accounts are an important part of helping people to prepare for work. We will encourage claimants to use bank accounts, and we are discussing this very issue with the British Bankers Association. We recognise, however, that it will not be suitable for everybody, so we expect to continue to pay rent directly to landlords in some cases and we will continue to ensure that suitable payment arrangements are in place for everybody. The hon. Gentleman is right that we need that nuanced approach for some individuals. The bulk of individuals, we believe, should be able to cope with the sort of monthly payments that I mentioned earlier.

[Chris Leslie]

I am sorry to intervene, as I know we are getting short of time. The analysis of the support needs of an individual, either face to face at the first point of application or subsequently in recognition of exceptions such as weekly payments or direct payments for landlords, is a key point. How will it be done? Will it be a local service? Is it assumed that predominantly local authorities will pick up those responsibilities? I want to gain a sense of who will be dealing with these things, as the Department for Work and Pensions in Whitehall will not be doing the face-to-face work.

[Maria Miller]

I think the hon. Gentleman is right, and in the pilots we shall pick up some of those issues, particularly the sorts of support that local authorities could provide. Jobcentre Plus will also be involved from the launch of universal credit as an on-site, readily available resource. The hon. Gentleman is right that we have to make sure that the appropriate support is there for the people who might need it, and we want to ensure that such systems are available so that universal credit becomes the success we know it will be.

The hon. Gentleman spoke of the importance of understanding the phased migration fully. We recognise that the move from one welfare system to another needs to be managed carefully, so that no one is left without the support that they need. The transition from the old benefit system to universal credit will therefore take place in three phases over four years, ending in 2017 when between 12 million and 13 million benefit and tax credit claims will become 8 million universal credit claims.

In the first phase, beginning in October 2013, all new claims to the current benefits and credits will be phased out by April 2014, with new claims to housing benefits and tax credits being the last to end in that month. Natural migrations to universal credit as a result of a significant change of circumstances will also be taken from October 2013.

In the second phase, which will begin in April 2014, existing claimants whose circumstances have not changed will start to be transferred to universal credit through managed change. It is expected that, as most of the households whose members are actively seeking work will have been moved through the new claims or natural changes route by April 2014, the households involved in that phase will generally be those with people in part-time work and those that are economically inactive. Priority will be given to households the nature of whose work makes them most likely to benefit from universal credit.

In the third and final phase, from the end of 2015 until the end of 2017, the remaining households will be moved into the new system. Local circumstances, such as staffing turnover, contractual obligations and demography, will be taken into account. The households will be moved on to universal credit in good time before housing benefit loads become too small to be viable. Within those parameters, the focus on work and poverty will be retained. That should allow local authorities to plan with more certainty over the medium term.

The hon. Gentleman rightly sought clarification of the important issue of housing benefit for pensioners. Following the abolition of housing benefit, help with rent and child costs will be provided through pension credit, and will broadly follow the existing rules.

The hon. Gentleman mentioned a number of information technology issues. I am not sure that I can cover all of them today, but I can assure him categorically that there will be no offshore outsourcing of the administration of universal credit, that the Department will send no existing British jobs overseas, and that no personal data are held or can be accessed outside the United Kingdom. Many sub-contractors started using overseas staff under the last Government. We are considering how jobs that used to be sent offshore could be moved back to the UK in the future. I hope that the hon. Gentleman would welcome such a move.

I do not think that the hon. Gentleman raised the issue of real-time information, but I shall bring him up to date in case he is interested. Real-time information is being introduced in HMRC to improve the operation of the pay-as-you-earn system, which will make it easier for employers and HMRC to share information. Under universal credit, entitlement for people who pay tax on their earnings through PAYE will correspond directly with earnings information received through HMRC’s automatic real-time information PAYE data transfer.

HMRC began pilot-testing RTI in April, and has already introduced 10 employer schemes representing a range of sizes with the aim of ironing out any wrinkles. I understand that the initial pilot stage has gone well, and that a further 310 employers joined the pilot yesterday. We are working closely with HMRC to ensure that systems are in place for the introduction of universal credit.

The hon. Gentleman rightly mentioned the important role of local authorities. They have been, and will continue to be, integral to the development of universal credit. We have undertaken extensive work with authorities to ensure that they help us to develop universal credit, and to tap into their expertise. I would like to take this opportunity to thank the local authorities associations of England, Scotland and Wales for their constructive engagement with us, especially those authorities that have already committed time and resources to helping to make universal credit a success.

On 21 March the permanent secretaries of my Department and the Department for Communities and Local Government wrote to chief executives informing them that local authorities will be expected to provide face-to-face support for certain universal credit claimants who will need more intensive help to access the new benefit.

The hon. Gentleman raised the important issue of staff. Local authorities will want to ensure that they deal with that issue correctly. When universal credit comes into force in October 2013, local authorities will have an important role to play, and that role will begin to change, too, so they will go through a period of transition. They will need to make sure they continue to work with us through this process. The Local Government Association and the DWP recently issued a joint prospectus calling on local authorities to work on the pilots I have mentioned. We recognise that costs will be associated with that process and the wind-down of housing benefit, and we will discuss that with DCLG and the local authorities in due course.

[Chris Leslie]

The Minister says that there will be a negotiation and that she will discuss this matter with local authorities, but she has to accept that central Government have decided to introduce the universal credit, and that a number of housing benefit and local authority staff will be made redundant. In a sense, the Government are forcing local authorities to make their staff redundant. The Minister has to accept that they must be compensated by central Government for that.

[Maria Miller]

The hon. Gentleman has made a number of assumptions. As I have outlined, the introduction of universal credit will take place over a number of years. Local authorities already know it is coming, so it would be prudent of them to be planning for the changes and to make sure that they cause as little disruption as possible to their staff. Local authorities will have an important role to play in the future, whether in respect of their staff or of minimising any costs associated with the change. I urge the hon. Gentleman not to make assumptions as to how local authorities will deal with this process. I think most of them will want to plan the transfer sensibly and avoid any unnecessary costs.

I hope I have covered the majority of the points the hon. Gentleman raised. This debate has provided us with a tremendous opportunity to discuss an important part of the Government’s reform agenda, which is based on making sure that work pays, and that we have a strong and robust benefit system that supports families in the right way in order to make sure they can lift themselves out of poverty and that people, both disabled and non-disabled, have the opportunity to go to work. These reforms are a central plank of Government policy.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Maria Miller Excerpts

Monday 23rd April 2012 Commons Chamber

[Julie Elliott (Sunderland Central) (Lab)]

2. What assessment he has made of the effect of changes in funding for childcare support on unemployment among women.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Maria Miller)]

I refer the hon. Lady so the answer that I gave the right hon. Member for East Ham (Stephen Timms) last Thursday. In case she was not able to read Hansard, however, I can tell her that the Government fully recognise the importance of child care in helping parents—not just mothers—to move into or stay in work. Through universal credit, we will for the first time extend help with child care costs to those who work for less than 16 hours a week, which will benefit 80,000 families who formerly had no entitlement to such support.

[Julie Elliott]

Is the Minister aware that since the cut in the child care element of benefit in October 2011, 44,000 people have stopped claiming? How many of those people does she think have simply left work because it does not pay to work any more?

[Maria Miller]

I think the hon. Lady is referring to some statistics about the reason why individuals are not in work, but I do not think she can quite draw the conclusion she has drawn that those particular individuals are out of work. As she will know, the Government are absolutely committed to making sure more women are able to move into work, which is perhaps why there are some 61,000 more women in work now than when Labour left office.

[Mrs Helen Grant (Maidstone and The Weald) (Con)]

Does the Minister agree that flexible working and shared parental leave will be very helpful in keeping women in work and child care costs down?

[Maria Miller]

My hon. Friend is right. We have put in place a package of measures, including flexible working, that will make all the difference. I should also remind her that we have doubled the number of two-year-olds getting free nursery care, and some 80,000 more families will be able to get child care support under universal credit.

[Mel Stride (Central Devon) (Con)]

3. What progress he has made on support packages for Remploy workers in stage one factories.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Maria Miller)]

We will have a full and intensive package of support available for any employee affected by the Government’s announcement to accept the Sayce review recommendations. Remploy is currently within its 90-day consultation period, and once that has ended we will provide final and detailed information about the support disabled people will be given to move into mainstream employment.

[Mel Stride]

Like my hon. Friend, I believe it is far better for disabled people to have the opportunity to work in mainstream employment than in segregated factories. However, will she outline the reforms she is making to the access to work programme to make sure that, in this case, some of the most vulnerable people in our society are able to get back into work quickly?

[Maria Miller]

My hon. Friend is right to suggest that we feel that access to work is the measure that will, when expanded, do most to help disabled people into work, and we will be working with disabled people to ensure we get the measures right. We have already been able to announce an extra £15 million to support access to work over the spending period, thereby helping some 8,000 more disabled people into work.

[Mr Frank Roy (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)]

I have spoken to every single worker in the Wishaw Remploy factory, and all of them are in despair at the thought of losing their jobs. How many notes of interest have there been from potential bidders for the Wishaw factory?

[Maria Miller]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that question. I am not privy to those sorts of commercial details, but I will be working as hard as I can—as, I am sure, will he—to ensure that there are more credible bids so that, if possible, factories such as the one in Wishaw, which supports some 20 disabled people, can continue. However, I also remind him that there are more than 11,000 disabled people in his constituency, and we are trying to ensure that the available money is helping all of them.

[Mr Lee Scott (Ilford North) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that it is very important to get young people with special needs into work, and does she welcome the scheme to be piloted in the borough of Redbridge in my constituency to get young people into work, and congratulate Interface and local businesses on playing their role in that?

[Maria Miller]

I commend the work my hon. Friend has been doing. He has done so much to support disabled people in his constituency get into work, and I look forward to continuing to follow the work he is doing.

[Mrs Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab)]

Remploy Ltd provides a defined benefit occupational pension scheme for its employees, but it is not eligible for pension protection funding by virtue of regulation 2(1)(d) of the Pension Protection Fund (Entry Rules) Regulations 2005. In the case of Remploy, the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions guarantees that the company’s assets are sufficient to meet its liabilities in the event of its winding-up. Under the Minister’s current proposals, will the Secretary of State continue to honour that commitment to current and retired Remploy employees?

[Maria Miller]

I am sure the right hon. Lady is aware of the fact that when this Government took office we inherited an enormous deficit in the Remploy pension fund. We are trying to sort that out. I can absolutely give her the undertaking that pensions that are in place will be fully protected, as she would expect.

[Karl MᶜCartney (Lincoln) (Con)]

4. What progress he has made on the youth contract; and if he will make a statement.

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[Mr Mark Spencer (Sherwood) (Con)]

T4. Does the Minister recognise that traditionally the Child Support Agency has targeted fathers who contribute willingly, rather than chase the more challenging maintenance evaders?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Maria Miller)]

I understand that the current system feels unfair to many people. However, I reassure my hon. Friend that we do not target people in that way. We want to ensure that more people receive positive financial support. The tragic fact is that only half of children living in separated families currently have a positive financial arrangement in place.

[Ann McKechin (Glasgow North) (Lab)]

T2. The Scottish Trades Union Congress reported today that the number of young Scots who are in receipt of unemployment benefit for more than 12 months has increased by 1,100% since 2007. Will the Minister confirm that those 5,000-plus young people will not be abandoned? What guarantee will he give about how many of them will be in work by this time next year?

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[Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con)]

T5. The Child Support Agency’s office for London and the south-east is in Hastings. It employs nearly 1,000 to do an often difficult and challenging job. When the Minister brings forward her reform plans, I ask her to ensure that this important service is not relocated, because a great deal of local expertise has been built up.

[Maria Miller]

I thank my hon. Friend for giving me the opportunity to pay tribute to the excellent work of the Child Support Agency staff in Hastings. I reassure her that the changes that we are planning will have a negligible effect on delivery staff.

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

T3. After the hard-fought and successful campaign to get the higher rate of the mobility component for blind and partially sighted people under disability living allowance, will the Minister reassure me that no blind people will be disadvantaged by the transition to the personal independence payment and that such people will continue to receive the higher rate of the mobility component?

[Maria Miller]

The hon. Lady will know that we are in the process of finalising the assessment criteria for the new personal independence payment. I am sure that she will be reassured to know that I have met a number of organisations that represent blind people. I remind her that with the personal independence payment, we are trying to recognise the barriers that people face to living an independent life, and not simply to categorise them based on their impairment.

[Laura Sandys (South Thanet) (Con)]

T9. I thank the Minister for agreeing to come to a jobs fair in Thanet in June. I am sure that he shares everybody else’s pleasure at seeing that there has been a small drop in youth unemployment. What more can I tell the young people of Thanet that we are doing to help them get the jobs that will be advertised at the jobs fair?

Public Bodies (Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission: Transfer of Functions) Order 2012

Maria Miller Excerpts

Monday 23rd April 2012 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Maria Miller)]

Following the Government’s review of non-departmental public bodies and the passage of the Public Bodies Act 2011, and using powers contained within this Act, I will be laying an order later today to abolish the Child Maintenance and Enforcement Commission (CMEC) and transfer its functions to the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions.

The public consultation on the transfer of CMEC was held 10 October 2011 to 3 January 2012, and the Governments response was published 8 March 2012. I will place copies of both the consultation document and Government response in the House Library later today.

CMEC has responsibilities relating to child maintenance, an issue which affects many families, and the Government feel it is right that Ministers should be directly responsible and accountable for this important work.

This order is subject to affirmative debate in both Houses of Parliament. These debates will be timetabled in due course.

Personal Independence Payment

Maria Miller Excerpts

Monday 26th March 2012 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Maria Miller)]

Disability living allowance is being replaced by a new benefit called personal independence payment for people aged 16 to 64.

We will be publishing a formal consultation later today on the detailed benefit rules that will underpin personal independence payment. We are running a full consultation that will run for 14 weeks from 26 March to 30 June 2012.

The consultation also covers the rules governing eligibility and payability of PIP for certain groups. It provides further details on how we will reassess DLA recipients and what the passporting arrangements will be under personal independence payment.

This consultation follows our initial consultation which was held between December 2010 and February 2011 on the reform of DLA, including the high-level structure of the new benefit.

Today’s publication will inform the development process. We welcome views from disabled people and their representative organisations. We will actively engage with these groups throughout the consultation period to ensure we get the detailed design right.

I will place a copy of the formal consultation in the Library.

Employment Support

Maria Miller Excerpts

Tuesday 20th March 2012 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Maria Miller)]

I confirmed in my written ministerial statement to the House on 7 March 2012 that the Remploy board would consider any credible proposals for the exit of businesses or parts of businesses and any other proposals for ways of avoiding redundancies from the 36 factories that the board have identified as unviable and subject to consultation proposed for closure.

I am now able to confirm that Remploy will publish details of the commercial process on its website today at www.remploy.co.uk. This includes contact information to assist those who wish to put forward an expression of interest.

At all points the priority of Remploy and the Government will be to minimise the number of disabled people affected by these announcements and to provide individualised assistance to employees to move into mainstream employment.

Women’s Aid

Maria Miller Excerpts

Wednesday 14th March 2012 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Maria Miller)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Dr McCrea. I congratulate the right hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill (Mr Clarke) on securing this debate. We have worked together on numerous issues in recent years, and I know that his tenacity and commitment are second to none. I underline how important it is that we debate this issue. My hon. Friend the Member for Hastings and Rye (Amber Rudd) said that it is an issue for both men and women, and the fact that the right hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill secured this debate underlines that.

On behalf of everybody who has contributed to this debate, I pay tribute to all the organisations involved in supporting women, men and children facing the ordeal of domestic violence. I marvel at the work of the Basingstoke Rape and Sexual Abuse Crisis Centre in my constituency, which employs a dedicated group of people who bring a much-needed service to an important part of my constituency. I am sure that all hon. Members can look to similar organisations in their constituencies.

I am grateful for this timely opportunity to discuss how the welfare system supports and will support those affected by domestic violence. As hon. Members have mentioned, significant changes will take place as a result of the Welfare Reform Act 2012, particularly the introduction of universal credit. Domestic violence is a dreadful act of abuse, and the Government are absolutely determined to tackle it. There are many matters that I would like to discuss in response to the issues raised by hon. Members. I will try to address each in turn.

It is unacceptable that 7% of women and 5% of men reported having experienced domestic abuse in the past year. That is equivalent to around 1.2 million women and 800,000 men. The violence against women and girls action plan, launched in March 2011, was refreshed earlier this month and sets out numerous commitments that the Government have made across the board: to improve prevention, which my hon. Friends discussed in interventions; to challenge attitudes and behaviours by taking action early to ensure that the perpetrators of violence are brought to justice; to support victims of abuse in all its forms better by working with partners to reach out across communities; and to ensure that Government support is appropriately tailored to victims’ individual needs.

To pick up on the points made by my hon. Friends the Member for Wirral West (Esther McVey) and for Brentford and Isleworth (Mary Macleod), it is absolutely right that prevention must be at the heart of our approach, as well as breaking the cycle that we as constituency MPs all too often see in action. We can do so by working with children, as my hon. Friend the Member for Wirral West highlighted in her contribution.

I am mindful of hon. Members’ concerns about future funding for services that support victims of domestic violence. I hope that hon. Members will be content to hear that the Government constantly consider ways to strengthen protection for victims and that we have taken a different approach by ring-fencing nearly £40 million of stable funding up to 2015 for specialist local domestic and sexual violence support services and rape crisis centres in England, as well as funding the national domestic violence and stalking helplines. It is the first time that funding has been ring-fenced on a stable basis for domestic and sexual violence victims, and I am clear that local authorities should view funding for services to support victims of domestic violence as essential.

The right hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill will also be aware that in Scotland, decisions on funding applications for projects that focus on tackling violence against women will be announced shortly by the Scottish Government. I am pleased, as are key partners such as Scottish Women’s Aid, that funding for violence against women, including victims of domestic abuse, will be maintained throughout the spending review period. I hope that he will welcome that as a concrete commitment.

The right hon. Gentleman’s main point involved housing benefit, but other Members discussed the broader issue of the benefits system, so I will address that first, hopefully providing some of the reassurance that hon. Members seek in these times of change. We heard from the right hon. Member for Stirling (Mrs McGuire), who spoke for the Opposition, about this week’s approval for proposed changes to jobseeker’s allowance regulations. That legislative change will now come into force on 23 April and allow victims of actual or threatened domestic violence who are in receipt of jobseeker’s allowance to be exempted from job-seeking conditions for a period of up to 13 weeks, provided that evidence from an appropriate representative can be produced and that other conditions are met. That will continue with the introduction of universal credit.

It is right that victims of domestic violence who claim JSA or are new to claiming it can spend some time focusing on stabilising their lives. As we have heard from hon. Members today, that is a challenging time for the individuals concerned, and they need time to get their lives and, where applicable, their children’s lives straight. It is also right that they can do so without having to demonstrate that they are actively seeking or available for employment, or face the threat of sanction. I hope that hon. Members will feel that that is a clear sign of the Government’s commitment.

A further sign of how seriously we take the issue is that alternative support remains available via the existing JSA domestic emergency exemption for victims who are either unable or perhaps unwilling to produce evidence. We have a twin-track approach, which is important to note.

While the easements that operate under JSA are, as I have explained, commendable, they are somewhat complex. That is why the Government are already taking steps to clarify them as we move forward with universal credit. That shows our clear commitment in the area, and I hope hon. Members will welcome that.

On the subject of today’s debate, housing benefit, some victims of domestic violence live in a hostel or a refuge. Currently, many, if not all, refuges have their rents met in full through housing benefit, which is usually paid directly to the hostel. Refuges are exempt from the local housing allowance, and residents have their housing benefit worked out using rules that recognise the additional costs that the hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston (Kate Green) talked about in her intervention.

The Government consulted last year on changes to the way in which housing benefit meets the costs of people living in supported housing, such as refuges. Our consultation paper, “Housing benefit reform—Supported housing”, was published on 19 July 2011, and the consultation period ended on 9 October 2011. We are considering the responses to the consultation and intend to bring forward proposals as soon as possible for implementation in 2013. Let me clarify that we do not intend to change the way in which payments of housing benefit are made to people living in hostels or refuges. All tenants who live in the social rented sector, as well as those living in supported housing, normally have housing benefit paid directly to their landlords. That will continue until housing benefit no longer exists and is replaced by universal credit between 2013 and 2017.

[Mrs McGuire]

As well as the process of payment, will the calculations allow hostels to have a higher charge than that which would be commensurate with social housing in the area?

[Maria Miller]

There are a number of specific points, such as the one just made by the right hon. Lady, that I want to go into. I will deal with her point first.

We currently support around 170,000 claimants living in supported accommodation through housing benefit. They receive on average an extra £40 a week in housing benefit in recognition of extra costs. We expect higher payments for that sector to continue. I hope that the right hon. Lady feels that that starts to answer some of her points.

The right hon. Lady also asked several questions about how hostels will be treated under universal credit. Currently, we are considering how we will support housing costs for people in hostels under universal credit. Our consultation is helping to inform that, and we will involve stakeholders in the process before we issue regulations.

The right hon. Lady asked some important questions about people who are subject to the shared accommodation rate. I reassure her that the situation applies to a distinct group of individuals: those who are under 35, on their own, with no children, and moving into private sector accommodation. She is probably already aware that many exemptions are in place for vulnerable groups—for instance, those who receive the severe disability premium.

We have also introduced several further exemptions from this January—for example, for ex-residents of homeless hostels who have received help to resettle in the community. I reassure the right hon. Lady that if there are still individuals who, local authorities feel, require their own space, discretionary housing payments are also available, and they have been increased by some £130 million. That will allow local flexibility and discretion, which can make all the difference in such cases.

[Kate Green]

I appreciate the exemptions that have been made. However, housing organisations such as Crisis and Shelter have pointed out that if an exemption for people leaving homeless hostels is enshrined in legislation, there seems to be no objection to having the same exemption for women leaving refuges.

[Maria Miller]

Our approach is to empower local authorities to have the sort of discretion that can make all the difference in such cases. Each individual case is different, which is why the discretionary housing payments are important and why we are putting so much more taxpayers’ money into that—to give local authorities the flexibility that can make all the difference.

The right hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill said that he felt that there may have been some indication of a reduction in the amount available to pay for refuges. I make this clear to reassure him: the consultation on refuges that we have been through is not intended to be a cost-cutting exercise. We want to make the rules fairer and ensure that help is better targeted on those who need it. It is about ensuring that the money that we have reaches those who need it most. I hope that that reassures the right hon. Gentleman about housing benefit. His debate is timely because we are moving forward at the moment to talk to stakeholders on that issue before we formulate regulations and before they are looked at through the positive procedures of the House.

Hon. Members also talked about universal credit and how that will affect people who are at risk of or have experienced domestic violence. I believe that the system will hold a great deal of good for individuals who find themselves in such a situation. One of the important contributions—as a constituency MP, I can empathise with this—stressed that sometimes the issue is about the timeliness, or the lack of it, of support in place for women who find themselves in a refuge. A delay in receiving financial support at that point can be extremely distressing. The current complexities of the benefits system can do little to help speed that process up. That is why I feel strongly that universal credit will greatly benefit some of the most vulnerable groups in our communities.

[Amber Rudd]

Sometimes, it is important to pay housing benefit directly to refuges to secure their financial future. Private landlords may get into trouble or have difficulty, but they are supported by the law and can enter into negotiations with their tenants. For refuges, having a secure financial commitment is important to their survival.

[Maria Miller]

My hon. Friend speaks with great passion on the subject, and I thank her for her intervention. She is pushing me a little further than I am able to go at the moment, but I hear loud and clear what she is saying about the importance of ensuring that there is some certainty there. I would like to make it clear to her and other hon. Members that the work that we are doing is not intended to unsettle or jeopardise the financial futures of the refuges. That is not something we intend to do. We do not want to do anything to damage the sector.

Universal credit will be a simpler way of people applying for benefits, and will significantly benefit this group of women particularly. We will introduce a system of payments on account, so that some individuals can get payments made, even if not all the details of their claim can be sorted out straight away. Again, simplification and a fleetness of foot will assist people in these very difficult situations.

Throughout the development of the reform—universal credit—we have worked very hard to ensure that safeguards are put in place to protect vulnerable people, including victims of domestic abuse. That includes those still residing within the household and those who have been forced into a refuge. The right hon. Member for Stirling, who speaks for the Opposition, highlighted the single monthly payment made to households. We have put that in place because we feel that it is important and integral that it is the family’s responsibility to decide how a payment is made and to manage their own finances.

However, as the right hon. Lady said, of course, there will be exceptional cases. It is important that any system can deal with and support those exceptional cases, where a single payment into one account may compromise the safety of household members. We have therefore ensured in the Welfare Reform Act 2012 that there is a power to split payments between members of a couple in the case of a joint claim. The hon. Member for Stretford and Urmston also raised that.

[Kate Green]

The Minister is right that there is the option for universal credit to be split between members of the household. However, does she not agree that it will be difficult for a woman to seek that in a situation where there is financial abuse, as was mentioned by the hon. Member for Brentford and Isleworth (Mary Macleod)? I realise that it is well beyond the opportunity to get the legislation changed, but will the Minister at least assure me that the Government will keep a careful eye on the impact on those women of a single payment to one member of the household in relation to the financial abuse that the hon. Member for Brentford and Isleworth rightly raised?

[Maria Miller]

I absolutely assure the hon. Lady that, in all aspects of the reform that we are undertaking—whether it is this or another aspect of the Welfare Reform Act—we will keep a very close eye on how things are working in practice. She is absolutely right: we have to do that to ensure that those who are particularly vulnerable and in difficult situations are getting the support that they need.

Under universal credit, there will continue to be a 13-week exemption to conditionality where there is evidence of threatened or actual domestic violence. In addition, the application of conditionality overall will be more responsive to the needs and circumstances of individuals. Importantly, advisers will be able to have crucial discretion to vary or temporarily lift requirements where a claimant is subject to a change in circumstances such that they cannot reasonably be expected to take even limited steps into work. That discretion can help individualise the support that we give people in those difficult circumstances.

The situations faced by victims of domestic violence are very varied and therefore, beyond a three-month exemption, we believe that it is right to take a case-by-case approach and give advisers such discretion. As part of the move towards self-sufficiency, in the cases we have talked about, universal credit will be paid directly to tenants rather than to landlords. There are elements around direct payments that are still being considered, and the role of hostels and refuges are part of that. However, let me assure hon. Members that we will do that in a way that protects the income of social landlords. The Government have absolutely no intention of doing anything that will damage the sector. I hope that the right hon. Member for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill will find that commitment a reassurance at this time.

The debate is extremely timely. My colleagues in the Department and I will consider very carefully all the comments made by hon. Members from both sides of the House. We need to examine carefully the circumstances in which alternative arrangements for payment of universal credit will need to be made. We will start a process of working with key stakeholders over the next few months on what should be included in regulations, with a view to publishing a draft set of regulations in due course. I assure hon. Members that I am committed to ensuring that the right safeguards are in place, particularly in the case of victims of domestic violence. Again, I underline my thanks to hon. Members for sharing their thoughts on this matter. I assure them that they will help inform our discussions as we move forward.

Personal Independence Payment

Maria Miller Excerpts

Monday 12th March 2012 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Maria Miller)]

During consideration of the personal independence payment (PIP) clauses of the Welfare Reform Bill on 17 January, the Government announced their intention to have a graduated introduction of the new benefit. To ensure a smooth introduction, the launch will be undertaken through a phased approach, commencing initially with a subset of new claimants. This will ensure processes and procedures are working fully before moving to process all new claims and then reassessing existing disability living allowance (DLA) claimants.

Bootle benefit centre (Bootle BC) will administer the first new claims from spring 2013, from areas including Merseyside, north-west England, Cumbria, Cheshire and north-east England. People in these locations will be the first to claim the new benefit. The primary reason for selecting the Bootle BC is that it handles DLA new claims in volumes that will provide a robust test of PIP processes and new computer systems. During this period, new claimants in all other parts of the country will continue to claim DLA as now.

The remaining network of benefit centres currently administering new claims for DLA will start to take on new claims for PIP from summer 2013, once evidence is in place that processes are working as intended. In addition this network will handle continuing DLA claims for children. Blackpool benefit centre will undertake PIP reassessment activity for existing DLA claimants aged 16 to 64.

Disability Employment Support

Maria Miller Excerpts

Wednesday 7th March 2012 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Maria Miller)]

Today I am publishing a command paper, “Disability Employment Support: Fulfilling Potential”, which sets out the Government’s strategy for specialist disability employment programmes and includes a summary of the responses to the public consultation on the Sayce review.

Our strategy reaffirms the Government’s commitment to enable disabled people to achieve their full potential and support independent living, something at the heart of UN convention commitments. As a result of its importance and despite severe financial constraints, I have continued to protect spending on specialist disability employment programmes over this spending review, and I am determined to help more disabled people enter and remain in work. Crucially, savings from the policy changes I am announcing today will be used for more effective and proven employment programmes such as Access to Work to benefit many more disabled people. Liz Sayce made a number of recommendations to improve and expand Access to Work. We accept all of Liz Sayce’s recommendations on Access to Work, subject to further co-production with disabled people and employers to ensure that we get these right. I can confirm today that we have already implemented a number of these recommendations, including targeted marketing to small employers and under-represented groups. I can also announce today that we will make an extra £15 million available for Access to Work in this spending review period.

In addition, we will be conducting a further period of co-production with disabled people to identify how best we can support independent living through achieving the full potential of disabled people in the labour market. This will build upon the co-productive approach to developing the disability strategy.

I have agreed that the funding for residential training colleges should be extended until the end of the academic year 2012/13, to allow time to determine and implement future changes. They provide support into employment that is clearly valued, although costly, and we need to take further time to consider options for the future.

I have assessed very carefully the needs of the Remploy workers, as well as the needs of the 6.9 million disabled people of working age in Great Britain—who are, of course, the vast majority—who could benefit from greater specialist employment support to find and retain work.

The responses to the consultation on the Sayce review strongly endorsed the idea that money to support disabled people into employment should follow individuals not institutions and that Remploy factories should be set free from Government control.

They also supported the view the Government-funded segregated employment is not consistent with an objective of disability equality.

This is about equality and fairness for disabled people. Roughly 2,200 disabled people are supported by Remploy’s enterprise businesses, at a cost each year of around a fifth of the total budget for specialist disability employment programmes. Despite significant investment in Remploy enterprise businesses the cost of each employment place remains at £25,000 per year, compared with an average Access to Work award of £2,900. The Sayce review did acknowledge the valuable work undertaken by Remploy’s employment services in supporting tens of thousands of disabled people into work. Given the significant additional number of unemployed disabled people who could be supported to access the mainstream labour market, up to 8,000 people in this spending review, I have decided that it is important to accept and implement the Sayce review recommendations on Remploy. This will be done in two stages.

In stage 1, the Government will reduce its current subsidy to Remploy from the beginning of the new financial year so that we cease funding factories which make significant losses year after year and restrict funding to those factories which might have a prospect of a viable future without Government subsidy. Remploy’s board was asked to consider the impact of this decision before it was made.

As a result of the decision to reduce current funding the Remploy board is proposing to close (subject to consultation with their unions) by the end of this year the 36 factory sites (of 54) which it considers are unlikely to be able to achieve independent financial viability. Remploy will shortly begin collective consultation with its trade unions and the management forums on the proposed closure of these factories and on the potential compulsory redundancy of all the 1,752 people, including 1,518 disabled people, at these sites and associated with them.

Some factory sites, the CCTV business and Remploy employment services appear to be more likely to be able to continue to operate free from government subsidy as advocated by Sayce. In stage 2, the Department for Work and Pensions will work with the Remploy board to identify whether these potentially viable Remploy businesses can be freed from Government control, including by way of employee-led commercial exit and/or open market sales, and how this might be achieved.

I recognise that this announcement will be difficult news for the staff in Remploy factories and understand that they have will have concerns about the future. As part of collective consultation, the Remploy board will consider all proposals to avoid compulsory redundancy.

We are absolutely committed to supporting Remploy employees with an £8 million comprehensive personalised package of support for all those who are affected by these proposals. Any disabled member of staff who is made redundant will receive an offer of individualised support for up to 18 months to help with the transition from Government-funded sheltered employment to mainstream employment. This support will also include access to a personal budget to aid that transition. We will also be working with employers and the Employers Forum on Disability to look to offer targeted work opportunities for displaced staff. We will also establish a community support fund to provide grants to local disability organisations to support Remploy employees to make the transition from sheltered to mainstream employment.

If, after reform of Remploy is complete, it leaves Government, I anticipate that the Remploy pension scheme will run on as a closed scheme. The accrued benefits of members will be fully protected.

The Government’s commitment is to support many more disabled people into work, in line with their aspirations, at a time of severe financial restraint. The changes I am announcing today will enable us to support thousands more disabled people into work, including through significant improvements to the successful Access to Work programme. I believe that this strategy better fits the needs and aspirations of the 21st century—and a world where disabled people participate fully in the mainstream not in Government-funded segregated jobs.

I will place a list of the factories that will be the subject of consultation in the Library of the House.

Employment Support

Maria Miller Excerpts

Wednesday 7th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Maria Miller)]

With permission, Mr Speaker, I should like to make a statement on the reform of specialist disability employment support.

Today, the Government have published a Command Paper, setting out our plans for specialist disability employment support and summarising our responses to the Sayce review. Let me make one thing clear: these are difficult decisions, but the current system is not working for disabled people. Employment rates for disabled people remain almost 30% below those of non-disabled people. Exclusion from the labour market leads to exclusion from society at large, and I do not think that anybody in the House wants to see that happen.

That is why, back in 2010, we asked Liz Sayce to conduct a review of how we might make specialist employment support for disabled people work better. The review was detailed and comprehensive, and it took views from disabled people, disabled people’s organisations and many hon. Members in the House today. Today, the Government have published their response to that report, outlining how we intend to reform specialist disability support for the future. It includes putting £15 million more into Access to Work, a scheme that has been proven to be extremely successful in supporting disabled people into mainstream employment.

I have agreed that the funding for residential training colleges should be extended until the end of the academic year 2012-13, something that I know many hon. Members present will support as well. That will allow those colleges time to determine and to implement future change. They provide support into employment which is clearly valued, although costly, and we need to take further time to consider the options for the future.

We have also taken a difficult but important decision on the future of Remploy. The responses to the consultation on the Sayce review strongly endorsed the idea that money to support disabled people into employment should follow individuals, not institutions, and that Remploy factories should be set free from Government control. The responses also supported the view that Government-funded, segregated employment is not consistent with the objective of disability equality, which is at the heart of what this Government stand for.

We know that roughly 2,200 disabled people are supported by Remploy’s enterprise businesses, at a cost each year of about one fifth of the total budget for specialist disability employment programmes. Despite significant investment in those businesses, the cost of each employment place remains some £25,000 per year, compared with an average Access to Work award of just under £3,000.

The current system is not using the money that we have available most effectively, and in these difficult economic times we have to look at that very carefully. The current situation is not sustainable, and it is simply not working for the majority of the 7 million disabled people who live in all our constituencies throughout the country.

If money is spent more effectively, up to 8,000 more unemployed disabled people could be supported into mainstream employment, something I am sure the House will agree is the right approach. That is why I have decided to accept and implement the Sayce review recommendations on Remploy. That will be done in two stages. In stage 1, the Government will reduce their current subsidy to Remploy from the beginning of the new financial year, so that we cease funding factories that make significant losses year after year and restrict funding to those factories that might have a prospect of a viable future without a Government subsidy.

Remploy’s board was asked to consider the impact of the decision before it was made, and as a result of the decision to reduce current funding the board is proposing—subject to important consultation with staff and unions—to close by the end of this year the 36 factory sites that it considers unlikely to be able to achieve independent financial viability.

Remploy will shortly begin collective consultation with its trade unions and the management forums on the proposed closure of those factories, and on the potential compulsory redundancy of 1,518 disabled people at those sites and those associated with them. In stage 2, the Department for Work and Pensions will work with the Remploy board to identify whether these potentially viable Remploy businesses can be freed from Government control, including by employee-led commercial exit or open-market sales, and how this might be achieved.

I recognise that this announcement will be difficult news for the staff in Remploy factories and understand that they have will have concerns about the future. As part of collective consultation, the Remploy board will consider all proposals to avoid compulsory redundancy. Moreover, we are absolutely committed to supporting Remploy employees with an £8 million comprehensive personalised package of support for all those who are affected by these proposals. Any disabled member of staff who is made redundant will receive an individual offer of up to 18 months’ help with the transition from Government-funded sheltered employment to mainstream employment. This support will include access to a personal budget—on average, £2,500—to aid that transition. We will also be working with employers and the Employers’ Forum on Disability to look to offer targeted work opportunities for all displaced staff. We will establish a community support fund to provide grants to local disability organisations to support Remploy employees in making the transition from sheltered employment to mainstream employment.

This decision commands the support of disabled people’s organisations and disabled people themselves. It is also a decision that I would have thought the Opposition wanted to support, because back in 2007 the right hon. Member for Neath (Mr Hain) said of Remploy:

“the reality is that it is simply not viable.”—[Official Report, 29 November 2007; Vol. 468, c. 449.]

We, as a Government, have taken forward his plan and have come to a natural point that he, too, would have come to in this process.

The Government’s commitment is to support many more thousands of disabled people into work, and the changes that I am announcing today will enable us to do exactly that. I believe that this strategy better fits the needs and aspirations of disabled people in the 21st century, and a more equal world where disabled people participate fully in the mainstream, not in Government-funded segregated jobs.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs McGuire]

I am indeed, Mr Speaker.

I finish by saying to the Minister that in each constituency where there are factories at which redundancies will be made, there are tens of people chasing every job. She made a point about the increase in Access to Work, but that scheme requires jobs. Tonight, 1,700 people do not know whether they will have one in three months’ time.

[Maria Miller]

I am very happy to have come to the House today to discuss our proposals. [Interruption.] Communication is very important on this matter, and many Members have had many conversations with me about Remploy over the past two years. I have already laid a written statement and met many of the MPs affected. Indeed, I have spoken to the right hon. Member for Stirling (Mrs McGuire), and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has spoken to the shadow Secretary of State, the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne), who is not in his place.

We take staff communications very seriously indeed on a matter such as this. It is not right for the right hon. Member for Stirling to call into question the way in which it has been managed, because my colleagues at Remploy have put great effort into ensuring that disabled people employed by Remploy are well aware of today’s process. Indeed, we have worked closely together throughout the consultation process. As I have said, there were 1,400 submissions, including from disabled people, Opposition Members and staff at Remploy factories.

Most important of all, this Government decided when we came to office to take forward the modernisation plan that Labour Members had put in place. In these very difficult economic times, we could have taken a different decision, but we chose not to. We chose to stick with that plan and see how things progressed. I am afraid that in year four of the modernisation plan, it is clear that the objectives that Labour set out were simply not going to come to fruition and were not realistic. I think some Opposition Members will know that.

The right hon. Lady asked a number of questions, some of which I believe I may have answered in my statement, but I want to ensure that I have covered every point she made. The Remploy board has been fully informed of all the procedures that we have gone through and all the decisions that have been made, and my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has spoken to his Opposition counterpart to ensure that he was well informed in advance of today. We ensured that the procurement commitments that Labour put in place were taken forward. In fact, we have been working with Remploy for the past two years to attempt to make the modernisation plan work, but we are where we are and these difficult decisions now needed to be taken.

There has been a great deal of discussion by Opposition Members about the number of jobs that are available to disabled people. I should like to put it on record that the employment services arm of Remploy has done a magnificent job of helping disabled people into work. I believe that many hon. Members will agree with that. Indeed, last year, Remploy’s employment services arm supported 20,000 disabled people throughout the country into work, with 2,000 individuals with disabilities in Wales and another 2,000 in Scotland helped into work. Those jobs are available if individuals can get the support and training to access them.

The decisions are not easy, but we are continuing a policy that the previous Administration started. When we came into government, we confirmed that we would continue that plan. The truth is that the Opposition would have had to make those decisions themselves.

We enlisted the help of experts to try to ensure that our decisions were right. Liz Sayce, in her role in Radar, brings to the matter an expertise that many hon. Members will acknowledge. Today, we are taking forward her recommendations, and I am afraid that I cannot understand the tone or the nature of the right hon. Lady’s remarks.

Labour Members should remember that many factories were closed on their watch, and perhaps they did not make the right decisions then. They would have had to face the same choices. Today’s discussion is not about money because, as Opposition Members know, the money and support for specialist disability employment is protected under the Government—£320 million plus an extra £15 million to ensure that the changes that we are making today will result in more disabled people in work, with more money to support them to do that.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con)]

I welcome the extra £15 million that the Under-Secretary has announced today for helping disabled people. Does she agree that we are likely to secure better value for money for that extra funding, and we will be able to help more disabled people, if it goes to individuals rather than institutions?

[Maria Miller]

My hon. Friend is right. In this day and age, we need to recognise that disabled people want to live independent lives. We are committed to that as a Government. To do that, we need to help more disabled people into work and we are more likely to achieve that if we can ensure that that money is used most effectively. The proposals that we are discussing will help an extra 8,000 disabled people into work.

[Nia Griffith (Llanelli) (Lab)]

As the Under-Secretary knows, my hon. Friend the Member for Swansea West (Geraint Davies) has been very successful in getting public bodies locally to buy furniture from the Swansea Remploy factory. Now that that factory’s order books are full, will she look again at its potential to be cost effective and drop her plans to close it?

--- Later in debate ---

[Maria Miller]

The hon. Lady makes an important point. It is important that factories have work to do. All too often in the past, factories have not had enough to do. Indeed, in the very recent past, half of Remploy employees in factories have had nothing to do. I do not find that acceptable, but if there are opportunities to avoid redundancies, we will work with hon. Members of all parties to do that.

[Stephen Lloyd (Eastbourne) (LD)]

I thank the Under-Secretary for her statement and the Opposition spokesperson for her response. The decision is difficult but I believe that it is right. The Under-Secretary knows my views—I have worked in this area for many years. I would like to get a couple of commitments in the House. Will every penny saved remain in the area to help many more thousands of disabled people into work? I do not want it to be a cost-cutting exercise. Secondly, if the Under-Secretary cannot do so this evening, will she bring to the House later some detail about the exact programme over the 18 months to ensure that people from Remploy move into employment?

[Maria Miller]

I can reassure my hon. Friend that every penny that is saved in the programme will be reinvested in supporting disabled people. Indeed, we will spend £15 million more as a result of the real, clear need to ensure that we have sufficient support in place. I can also reassure him that we already have the detailed programme of support for Remploy employees who are affected by today’s announcements. Several Opposition Members attended a meeting that I held earlier to ensure that people have the information to hand. I will continue to hold meetings with hon. Members to ensure that everybody is aware of the support that is in place.

[Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)]

Seventeen hundred people will lose their jobs as a result of this statement, including 1,500 disabled people. The Minister’s case rests on the argument that there are better ways to help disabled people into work than through Remploy. Will she therefore guarantee to come to the House six months after the closures have taken place and detail exactly how many of the 1,500 disabled people who will lose their jobs have gained alternative employment?

[Maria Miller]

The right hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. We need to ensure that we know what happens to individuals who are affected by the measures announced today. Unfortunately, under the previous Administration, no such tracking was put in place. That was a mistake, and one that this Government will not be repeating. I hope that he is not advocating our retaining segregated employment, but I can absolutely undertake to him that we will monitor and keep track of these measures, because we want to ensure that as many people as possible can enter employment.

[Mr Brian Binley (Northampton South) (Con)]

I equally support the view that money should follow people and not institutions. As a past employer of excellent disabled people, I found that the support to help them to find us was variable to say the least. What can the Government do to improve that support to establish and build on those connections?

--- Later in debate ---

[Maria Miller]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that employers have a vital role to play. All hon. Members will know that there is a great deal more work to do to help employers to understand the very valuable contribution that disabled people bring to the workplace. I am working hard with many disabled people and disabled people’s organisations. Through our new disability strategy, we will ensure that we continue to work with employers to ensure that they see the advantages of employing disabled people, and through our additional support for Access to Work there will be tangible financial support.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

So the Minister’s big idea for getting people who are disabled back into work is to start by giving them the sack. There are three factors in Wales being hit hard: seven of the nine Remploy factories in Wales will close; 272 of the 752 employees are in Wales; and jobs are being lost in communities that already face mass worklessness, such as Merthyr Tydfil, Aberdare and Abertillery. What consideration did the Minister give to human costs before making her announcement, or was her only thought the cold logic of the balance sheet?

[Maria Miller]

The hon. Gentleman cannot have been listening to me earlier, because we are talking about supporting more disabled people into employment. As a result of the announcements we have made today, 8,000 more disabled people can seek the support that will make the difference between them being able to get into work and facing a lifetime on benefits. Disabled people in this country should not face a choice between a lifetime on benefits and a job in a segregated factory. They deserve to be able to work for employers such as BT, Royal Mail, Sainsbury and Marks & Spencer, all of which are actively working with Remploy employment services to get people—not only in Wales, but throughout the country—into employment.

[Philip Davies (Shipley) (Con)]

We would all like to see more disabled in mainstream employment, but does the Minister accept that some people who work in Remploy factories will not be able to hold down a job in mainstream employment for the longer term? Given that so many people without a disability who are more than capable of working shy away from doing so, should we not do everything we can to support people who could sit at home on disability but who want to go out to work for their own dignity? No fair-minded person questions my hon. Friend’s commitment to improve the lot of people with disabilities, but will she ensure that none of those people from Remploy factories who wants to earn an honest day’s pay will be left behind by her changes?

[Maria Miller]

My hon. Friend and I have spoken about this before. I do not think that we should sell disabled people short. Many disabled people working in Remploy employment factories have excellent skills. I want to ensure that they have the support and opportunity to have the sorts of jobs that I know most disabled people want in their lives. Independent living, not segregation or inequality, is at the heart of the Government’s approach.

[Mr Dennis Skinner (Bolsover) (Lab)]

Does this statement not sum up this heartless Government inhabiting millionaires’ row? They are sacking hundreds and hundreds of disabled workers in areas of high unemployment. Some of them, in areas such as mine, previously made redundant by Remploy, still have not got jobs. It is time that this Government and their accomplices, these tinpot Liberals, understood that this is the most heartless thing that they have done since they came to power. It is time they went.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Members can have their opinions. Let us cool it and hear the Minister’s answer. I say that to no particular individual but to the whole House. Let us hear the Minister.

[Maria Miller]

I suppose that I should remind the hon. Member for Bolsover (Mr Skinner) that he supported a Government who closed 28 factories. What is inexcusable is that his Government did absolutely nothing on tracking to establish how to put in place the right support for individuals affected by their decisions. The simple truth is that as a result of the Labour party’s approach, the factories have lost £225 million since 2008. That is money that we should have been using to support more disabled people into work, and that is at the heart of our proposals today.

[Margot James (Stourbridge) (Con)]

I commend Waitrose in my constituency for its structured programme of employment opportunities for people with disabilities. I also commend my hon. Friend for taking this difficult decision to make the money go further. Will she say a little about the responses from the disability organisations about how to help more disabled people into mainstream employment?

[Maria Miller]

I thank my hon. Friend for that question. She is absolutely right: we have to make the money go further and, in these difficult economic times, ensure that the money is being used most effectively. Our consultation on the future of disability employment support received widespread—indeed, almost universal—support from disability organisations. Mind told us:

“We agree that Remploy should be radically reformed, with high quality support for everyone affected”.

Disability Rights UK said:

“We appreciate that the Sayce review has caused some concern… However, we believe segregated employment for disabled people is unacceptable.”

The simple truth is that the Labour party is out of step with the majority of the disability world. I urge it to consider more closely its response to the statement.

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

I hope that the Minister, as she faces me, feels a little embarrassed for completely misleading me earlier this week. I, in turn, misled people in my factory, and I hope that she apologises for that. I am afraid, once again, that this is the nasty party at work. It has never changed. It has not changed in the 28 years that I have been in the House. It is an absolute disgrace.

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[Mr Speaker]

No. We are grateful for that confirmation. The Minister will have heard the question, and she can answer.

[Maria Miller]

And I can say to you, Mr Speaker, that I would never want to mislead the right hon. Lady at all, here or in any other place. I would gently bring to her attention the fact that there are 37 disabled people employed in the Aberdare factory. The loss at that factory last year was £800,000, and that is against an estimated 13,600 disabled people in Cynon Valley who are of working age. Does she not believe that we should be doing more to support those individuals? The proposals in today’s statement will do just that.

[Conor Burns (Bournemouth West) (Con)]

May I thank the Minister for her conversations with me in recent months, as she has come to this difficult but, I believe, correct decision today? Many people at the Alder Hills site in my constituency and their families will be worried tonight, but that worry will not be allayed by the invective in the two contributions that we have just heard from the Opposition. Will the Minister say what more we might do to seek the advice of disabled people, so that as they try to access mainstream employment, we can learn from their bad experiences in the past of trying to do that?

[Maria Miller]

I thank my hon. Friend for that comment, and I think he is right that many vulnerable groups and individuals who are listening to this debate will be taking close note of who is trying to offer the support that is needed, and we on the Government Benches want that to be constructive support. He will be aware that we are putting in place a budget of some £8 million, half of which will be used directly for personal support budgets for individuals, both in his constituency and elsewhere—some £2,500 a head. I want that to give every individual who is affected the proper support, so that we do not have a repeat, perhaps, of some of the problems of the past to which Opposition Members have referred.

[Ian Lucas (Wrexham) (Lab)]

The Minister has repeatedly refused to give information to Members of Parliament about the viability of individual factories. She is now giving them at the Dispatch Box—she gave them to my right hon. Friend the Member for Cynon Valley (Ann Clwyd). That is a very deficient approach. Today, Liz Sayce said:

“I think it is really important that those factories should be given a chance to show if they can be viable”.

Will the Minister now—finally, on the day that she has announced its closure—give to me the figures about the viability of the Wrexham factory?

[Maria Miller]

The hon. Gentleman will be able to have sight of the report that we have put together, which looked at the whole network to see which factories we could put into a financially sustainable position. Again, however, I would gently remind him that the Wrexham factory in his constituency supports 41 disabled individuals, at a cost of £900,000 last year, against an estimated total of 7,400 disabled people in the Rhondda who are of working age. Does he not want to do more to support—[Interruption.] My apologies, Mr Speaker: in Wrexham—the Rhondda is in the south; Wrexham is in the north.

[Mr Mike Hancock (Portsmouth South) (LD)]

I have to say that once again I find myself in disagreement with my coalition colleagues on this matter. Can the Minister give an assurance that those companies that are not—[Interruption.] I have to apologise, Mr Speaker: that was a call from the Remploy factory. Can the Minister give an assurance that there will be sufficient help to enable—[Interruption.]

[Mr Hancock]

May I seek an assurance from the Minister that those factories that are happily not up for closure at present will be given all sorts of assistance? I would also like her to give an indication, if she can this evening, of what help will be given to those Remploy operations to stay in business. Does she also accept that some people employed by Remploy—many in my constituency have been there for 10 or 15 years—will find it difficult to find other employment?

[Maria Miller]

I am very happy to give my hon. Friend an undertaking that we will want to work together with individuals in factories that are in wave 2 of the process, because we want to find ways for those organisations to succeed. However, he should be aware that we are indeed able to support disabled people into employment, through the employment services programme, so although he rightly says that it can be difficult for people to make that transition, it is not impossible. With the right support, people can move from segregated factories into mainstream employment.

[John McDonnell (Hayes and Harlington) (Lab)]

The Minister referred to the £2,500 of transitional funding for the workers, and I note that that is an average figure. If it is to make up the difference between benefits and the wages that the workers would have earned, it will last about six months. If they are still unemployed after that time, will there be further transitional assistance? If not, some of those families will plummet into poverty.

[Maria Miller]

I am sure that the hon. Gentleman knows that the money I am talking about will be on top of the quite significant provision that we make for redundancy in the process.

[Andrew Percy (Brigg and Goole) (Con)]

Local authorities in the former Humberside region struggled with a similar problem to that of Remploy involving B-line. In 2007, the then Labour council in North Lincolnshire decided to close B-line down. Since then, there have been far too many people with disabilities presenting to MPs and councils in the area and requiring support. What can my hon. Friend say to those people who will be affected by today’s decision? Specifically, will she assure me and the House that social enterprises will be engaged to help the individuals affected, and that there will be a guarantee that every worker affected will get the maximum support, rather than just the average sum?

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[Maria Miller]

I can absolutely assure my hon. Friend that the individuals who are affected by these announcements will receive unprecedented levels of support from the £8 million package. We want to ensure that each individual is given the kind of personalised package of support that they have not received in the past, to enable them to make the transition from segregated employment to mainstream employment. We want to do as much as we can to improve the opportunities for more disabled people to live independent lives.

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

If the Minister has read the responses to the consultation, she will be aware that, following the last round of voluntary redundancies, a large number of people were still not in work 18 months later. Why does she think it is going to be different this time, when she is proposing compulsory redundancies at a time that she has acknowledged to be one of economic difficulty?

[Maria Miller]

The hon. Gentleman might not have heard me say earlier that, in the last major round of redundancies, which took place under the Labour Government in 2008, no process was put in place to track the progress of individuals who were offered support. Indeed, we found that some 40% of the individuals involved took retirement or early retirement. I want to ensure that people have the right support, and that they can see that there is an opportunity to move forward. Now, more than ever, it is important that we get this right. The last Government ducked these decisions; they did not take the difficult decisions and they did nothing to ensure that disabled people could get the job opportunities that they needed.

[Nicky Morgan (Loughborough) (Con)]

The Minister rightly recognises the success of residential training colleges such as the Royal National Institute of Blind People college in my constituency. Will she reassure me and other Members who have such colleges in their constituencies that departmental officials will make themselves fully available to the colleges as they explore alternative ways of working and being funded?

[Maria Miller]

My hon. Friend and I have had many conversations about the importance of the college in her constituency. The simple fact is that residential training colleges up and down the country provide important specialist support for disabled people to get into employment. I have already given a clear undertaking that we are going to provide funding for those residential training colleges through to the end of the 2012-13 academic year. Indeed, my officials are already meeting the heads of those colleges to ensure that we have a clear plan for retaining that expertise in the new funding environment.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

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[Mr Doran]

I would love to make a speech, but I am trying to avoid one. The future of the factory is crucial. There is a possibility of saving jobs in Aberdeen, so will the Minister confirm what will happen to the factories?

[Maria Miller]

We are going into a 90-day consultation on phase 1 factories. If individuals want to come forward because they feel that there are opportunities to reduce the level of redundancies, Remploy would obviously be pleased to look at them.

[Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)]

What conversations is my hon. Friend having with employers about increasing employment opportunities for disabled people?

[Maria Miller]

I am happy to reassure my hon. Friend that we have had extensive conversations with the Employers Forum on Disabilities, which is going to work closely with us on the employment support package that we are putting together for the individuals affected, particularly making sure that, through its first shot scheme, disabled people can get those interviews and get in front of employers, which can be so important in securing jobs.

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

Nobody would deny that mainstream employment is important for people with disabilities, but some people who are employed in Remploy factories are there because they cannot secure mainstream employment. Will the Minister give the House a commitment today that at the end of the 18-month period, she will produce a report showing the individual destinations of people in employment and, if she proceeds with this closure programme, what percentage of them have jobs?

[Maria Miller]

Again, the right hon. Gentleman will have heard me say that unlike the previous Government, we will track the destinations of the people affected today. I do not doubt his very real and important concern, but disabled people really have the capability of working in mainstream employment, and I think it is our responsibility to make sure that we give them the skills and support to be able to do that.

[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

Given that many of these employees will enjoy a lot of camaraderie and community, as well as jobs, will my hon. Friend confirm that the mentoring and support offered will be beyond what is currently offered to them? Will she also confirm that local charities and local organisations will work closely with these employees so that they can be involved in the community?

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[Maria Miller]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that the community aspect of Remploy is important. It is something that all who are involved with Remploy understand. That is why I have allocated £1.5 million to a community budget to make sure that the broader benefits of Remploy are taken into account so that that support is there not just for employees, but for their families and the broader community, too.

[Mr Frank Roy (Motherwell and Wishaw) (Lab)]

Is it not shameful that the workers in the Remploy factory in Wishaw did not even know that they were losing their jobs until I phoned the factory this afternoon? In Motherwell and Wishaw, there are 21 people going for every single job application, so what will happen to those Remploy people who do not get a job in the next 18 months?

[Maria Miller]

Communication is vital. The hon. Gentleman has to understand that this is part of a 12-month process. We have been in consultation, and 1,400 people contributed to it. It is well known that we have been in this process. Today, Remploy management took a great deal of time to make sure that that communication process continued. I challenge him to look at some of the facts and figures for his own region—to look, for example, at the number of disabled people who are getting into employment. That is something that we believe should be available for Remploy employees as well.

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

Everyone in the House will empathise with the people who are at risk of losing their jobs tonight; there is no question about that. Will my hon. Friend confirm that the support these people will receive will help a greater number of people to get into jobs and that the money will be used effectively? Does she share my surprise that the right hon. Member for Birmingham, Hodge Hill (Mr Byrne), who just five hours ago expressed his concern that the Minister should be here tonight, is not here tonight?

[Maria Miller]

Obviously, it is important for Members to take part in this debate. I can reassure my hon. Friend that as a result of the proposals that we have announced today, some 8,000 more disabled people will be helped into employment. This is not just about the £320 million that the Government have already announced that they have protected to support this important group of people; it is about an extra £15 million on top of that, and I think that our actions speak very loudly.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

I think that the 54 disabled people who are losing the jobs at Remploy in Chesterfield will see through the Minister’s warm words and rhetoric. The fact is that more disabled people than able-bodied people are unemployed generally: it is a desperately difficult jobs market out there anyway. The Minister has already dodged this question twice. Will she commit herself to coming back to the House in six months and telling us where those who have lost their jobs at Remploy have gone, so that we can establish whether her warm words mean anything to the 54 people in my constituency who are losing their jobs?

[Maria Miller]

I do not doubt the hon. Gentleman’s genuine concern for his constituents, but I do not think that I have dodged that question. I have made it clear that we will monitor the progress made by disabled people, and I am always happy to come to the House and talk about the progress that the Government are making.

[Roger Williams (Brecon and Radnorshire) (LD)]

When the Ystradgynlais Remploy factory in my constituency was closed under the last Labour Government, a number of my constituents transferred to Baglan, which I think today’s written statement refers to as Neath. It is included in the stage 2 list as being potentially viable. Will the Minister ensure that the Remploy board is given all the encouragement and resources that are needed to ensure that that viability continues?

[Maria Miller]

We certainly want to help the Neath factory to realise what is clearly its potential. I hope that we can work with my hon. Friend as well, and that his support will ensure that the factory is the success that he feels that it can be in the future.

[Julie Elliott (Sunderland Central) (Lab)]

Will the Minister tell us what criteria will be used to determine whether factories on the stage 2 list, such as the one in my constituency, will remain open, and against what time scale they will be judged? Will she come back to the House at the end of that time and tell us how many of them will remain open?

[Maria Miller]

The stage 2 factories are factories that we believe, on the basis of independent reports, have the opportunity and potential to be financially viable. What we need now is an opportunity to talk to people who may be interested in taking them over. We are committed to what is in recommended in Liz Sayce’s report, which is the freeing of these factories from Government control, and we need to ensure that we have the right support and plans to be able to do that.

[Gavin Williamson (South Staffordshire) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that as a result of this tough and difficult decision it will be possible to help thousands more disabled people who do not currently live near a Remploy factory, such as those in my constituency?

[Maria Miller]

My hon. Friend speaks for the 7 million disabled people of working age in this country who do not have the opportunity to work at Remploy. We must use the £320 million of protected money, and the extra £15 million that is going into Access to Work, to ensure that many more of those individuals who are unable to be employed at the moment have the opportunity to be employed, and to lead independent lives as a result.

[Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP)]

I am particularly disappointed by the timing of today’s announcement. It stretches credulity that at a time of rising unemployment and fierce competition for every single job, the Government are planning to take supported jobs away from people who are already very disadvantaged in the labour market. What net financial savings does the Minister expect to arise from this policy? Once the redundancy bill, the benefits bill and the personalised support have been delivered, will creating all this uncertainty actually save any money?

[Maria Miller]

This is not a savings measure. I know that the hon. Lady is very concerned about this matter on behalf of those of her constituents who work in Remploy factories, but I assure her that we are trying to ensure that the money is used more effectively, so more of her constituents can get the support they need. It simply cannot be right for us to continue to let the factories lose £68 million a year—and cumulatively more than £200 million over the modernisation plan period—when we could be using that money more effectively to support more disabled people into employment.

[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con)]

I thank the Minister for that answer, but I am concerned about the way this difficult decision will be reported. Will she make it clear that the decision has not been taken in order to cut public expenditure, and that instead more money will be going towards enabling disabled people to live and work independently, free of prejudice, with support, so they can do what they want to do in their lives?

[Maria Miller]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right, and I put the following simple fact to the House: as a result of what we are announcing today, 8,000 more disabled people throughout the country will have the opportunity to move into work, compared with 1,500 people who work in Remploy factories and who will be affected. In these difficult economic times, we have to take tough decisions, but this is a decision that is about much more than that; it is about the sort of country we are—a country that wants to have disabled people included at the heart of our communities instead of in segregated factories.

[Ian Mearns (Gateshead) (Lab)]

I would agree with the Minister’s logic if we were in a period of full employment across the country or in regions such as the north-east of England, but the north-east is bearing 10% of the total cuts announced today. Sadly, I am convinced that very few, if any, of the people affected in my constituency and in the north-east in general will find other employment easily. What support will be given to the people of the north-east, so that they can get another job in the north-east?

[Maria Miller]

I do not doubt the hon. Gentleman’s sincerity, but he needs to look at the facts. Some 20,000 disabled people were helped into employment last year, and that was achieved not in easy economic times, but in the difficult economic times we inherited from Labour. We made sure that 20,000 disabled people were able to get into employment. I can reassure him that throughout the country we are very effectively getting disabled people into employment, and that the £8 million we have put aside for employment support will help ensure that his constituents get the sort of support that I know he would want them to get.

[Chris Heaton-Harris (Daventry) (Con)]

The acoustics in the Chamber are slightly awkward tonight, so I did not quite hear the Minister’s answer about how many Remploy factories were closed by the last Labour Government. I would therefore appreciate it if she would repeat it. We in the Public Accounts Committee found out today that 442,700 people started apprenticeships in the last year. Can she assure us that there is cross-departmental working to ensure that such opportunities are available to all people?

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[Maria Miller]

I am very happy to be able to give that assurance to my hon. Friend. I apologise if Members did not catch the answer to which he refers: under the previous Administration, 68 factories closed—[Interruption.] I apologise; 28 factories closed under the previous Administration. [Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. If the House were a little quieter, we would all be able to hear exactly what is being said. May I also ask the Minister to give briefer answers and, once again, ask Members to ask a single, brief question?

[Maria Miller]

Twenty-eight factories were closed under the previous Administration, and some 1,600 people were affected.

[Pamela Nash (Airdrie and Shotts) (Lab)]

My constituents who work at Remploy in Wishaw in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Mr Roy) have been coming to me for the last year to express their fear that what has been announced this evening would happen. After having been sacked so unceremoniously today, without an earlier statement or even a phone call, I do not think they will agree with the Minister that they have been set free. If she has made this announcement from the goodness of her heart and to encourage more disabled people into mainstream employment, why is she not ensuring that each Remploy employee has a new job before she lays them off?

[Maria Miller]

There was a statement earlier and I just want to make sure that the hon. Lady is clear that what Remploy announced today is that it will be consulting on the future of the people who will be affected by the announcements. She used the word “sacked”, but that is not correct. I can absolutely assure her that the support that will be in place will be the support she would expect to be there for her constituents to make sure that every one of them has the support to enable them to get back into employment.

[Gordon Birtwistle (Burnley) (LD)]

Having anticipated this event I took the opportunity to discuss with the Remploy factory in Burnley the future of the site. Will the Minister confirm what will happen to the assets of that site? Will she be prepared to hand them over to the work force so that they can start up their own business? They tell me that without the present astronomical overhead costs from central control and Government interference, they will be very successful, but they need assurances that they can take it on as an individual business. Will they be able to take on the company’s assets?

[Maria Miller]

I assure my hon. Friend that I would very much like to work with him on that and look at the proposal he mentions. We have spoken at length about this and I am sure that, working with officials, we can make sure that the details are available to anyone who has a firm proposal to put forward.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

I welcome the Minister to the Chamber this evening, but hon. Members will note that a Labour Minister in the Welsh Assembly saw fit to answer questions on this, with an oral statement, seven hours ago. In it he said:

“I regret that repeated requests by Welsh ministers for a constructive dialogue on Remploy factories in Wales have not been taken up by the UK Government.”

Will the Minister accede to the immediate request of the Welsh Assembly Government for discussions about the Remploy assets so that they can work with unions, social enterprises and others to make sure that we have viable ongoing businesses in all those premises?

[Maria Miller]

Officials have already met officials in the Wales Office and I am meeting with Ministers next week.

[Andrew Jones (Harrogate and Knaresborough) (Con)]

The Leeds Remploy office placed 307 people in work last year—a record to be applauded. I also applaud these efforts to end workplace segregation. Will my hon. Friend focus on monitoring the personalised support schemes to ensure that more people are helped into work in future and are not left behind as has happened in the past?

[Maria Miller]

I can absolutely give that undertaking to my hon. Friend. Again, I note that 8,000 more disabled people will be able to be supported into work as a result of today’s announcements.

[Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)]

What will be the total cost of shutting down these Remploy factories, including the costs of redundancy and settling with suppliers?

[Maria Miller]

This is a protected budget and we will make sure that the costs involved will be covered within the budgets that are available and that as a result of the measures we are taking today more disabled people will be helped into employment over this spending review period. Any costs associated with the changes we have announced today will be included within existing plans.

[Jason McCartney (Colne Valley) (Con)]

Will my hon. Friend take every opportunity, particularly tonight and tomorrow, to stress in the media that the funding will go to the disabled individual rather than to the institution, so that the voices we hear on this are not just those of the unions?

[Maria Miller]

Many people listening to the debate will be somewhat surprised that in this day and age we still have this approach to supporting disabled people in this country. I know there is union involvement in the factories and perhaps that had some bearing on the problems that the previous Administration had in taking tough decisions on this issue. I assure my hon. Friend that we will take the right decisions for disabled people because we are listening to their aspirations for the future, not the unions.

[Gemma Doyle (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op)]

Earlier, the Minister indicated that stage 2 factories such as the one in Clydebank in my constituency can expect no more support than stage 1 factories in finding a way forward to a sustainable future. Will she reconsider that position and put a taskforce into each of the stage 2 factories at least?

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[Maria Miller]

The important point I made earlier to the hon. Lady about her factory is that we believe that the phase 2 factories have the opportunity to become viable and we shall be looking at ways to make that happen. I hope that, perhaps working with her, we can identify somebody who is able to take on that challenge at local level.

[Paul Goggins (Wythenshawe and Sale East) (Lab)]

Today’s announcement is a crushing blow to the staff at Wythenshawe Remploy, who have battled against closure for four and a half years. They have made the factory more efficient and have boosted sales, yet their reward is that they are classed as a stage 1 factory, which means that it will close. Can I have an assurance from the Minister that if in the 90-day consultation period a credible proposal is made to keep that factory open—perhaps as a social enterprise—it will be given sympathetic consideration and adequate support?

[Maria Miller]

Yes.

[Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab)]

The heartless, callous decision announced today casts hundreds of hard-working disabled people on to the scrap heap, probably for a lifetime. The Minister continues to state that they will get jobs elsewhere, but in my constituency, 55.5 people are after every jobcentre vacancy. Can the Minister tell me where they will get employment?

[Maria Miller]

The hon. Gentleman really should have been listening to what I was talking about. Under the Labour Administration, 28 factories were closed in very difficult circumstances. What we are doing differently is making sure that the proper support is put in place, which it probably was not in the case of factories closed under Labour. We want to make sure that disabled people who are affected by the plans today have that support, and I hope I can call on the hon. Gentleman’s support to make sure that his constituents are aware of it.

[Ian Murray (Edinburgh South) (Lab)]

In 2007, the Conservatives said they would do all they could to support Remploy when they were in government. Does the Minister agree that the shambolic and shameful way the statement has been made today epitomises the Government’s cavalier and out-of-touch attitude to vulnerable people, and represents a broken promise to the dozens of disabled people in Edinburgh who are losing their jobs tonight?

[Maria Miller]

I am sorry; the hon. Gentleman needs to listen to what I am saying here. What we have done as a Government is to follow the Labour modernisation plan. We have followed it for the last two years and continued to make sure that in these tough economic times £555 million continued to be available. What we are not doing is wasting money; we are making sure that the money we have is going further.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

I notice that the excellent Coventry plant is down for reconsideration. I also notice that the Minister certainly has not consulted me, or any of the other Coventry MPs. Can we have an undertaking that she will consult the Coventry MPs? More important, to help her with her reconsideration we are prepared to give her a tour of that very successful factory, which does work for Jaguar Land Rover and other automobile industries. Is the Minister planning to privatise that plant?

[Maria Miller]

I am always happy to meet the hon. Gentleman. I think I have visited the factory in Coventry. We had a consultation on the process, with many contributions from hon. Members, but obviously I shall be happy to meet Coventry Members at any point in time.

[Jim McGovern (Dundee West) (Lab)]

I have visited the Remploy plant in my constituency so often that I am practically on first-name terms with most of the work force. They are fantastic—a mix of able-bodied and disabled people—and I cannot help but fear that they would be offended by the continuous references to a segregated workplace. Thankfully, Dundee is not earmarked for closure, but what assurances can the Minister give the work force in Dundee that they have a future there?

[Maria Miller]

The assurance I can give the hon. Gentleman and the work force in Dundee is that whether their factory is phase 1 or phase 2, they will get the support they need, either to work in mainstream employment through our £8 million support fund, or to look for alternative viable ways of taking the factory forward outside Government control. The hon. Gentleman will share with me the desire to make sure that more of his disabled constituents can get work, which is why I hope he can support our plans today.

[Dr Phillip Lee (Bracknell) (Con)]

I must say I am amazed that I am standing here in the 21st century discussing state-subsidised segregated jobs. Can the Minister confirm that the Government spend more than £60 million a year and that the operating loss on the factories was £68.3 million last year? Disabled people in my Bracknell constituency would welcome funding from the Government to support them to get into profitable jobs in the future, because they do not have the opportunity to be employed in a state-subsidised factory.

[Maria Miller]

My hon. Friend is right. The cumulative figure for the factory losses is well in excess of £200 million. That is important money, which could have been used more effectively to support more disabled people throughout the country into work.

[Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab)]

Will the Minister apologise to the deaf employees at the Springburn Remploy factory in my constituency, who were denied the dignity of a signer to tell them this afternoon that their jobs were gone? Does the Minister accept that with just 45% of disabled people employed—some 30% less than the non-disabled population—with a flatlining economy, with 20 people in my constituency chasing every job that is available, the question is: where will the jobs come from?

[Maria Miller]

I will look into the point that the hon. Gentleman raises about the Springburn factory. I would absolutely apologise to factory workers if there was not a signer available. I will look into that in detail. I ask the hon. Gentleman to consider the number of disabled people in his constituency who have been supported into mainstream employment through our employment services programmes and many others. We know that disabled people want to be able to live independent lives, and through the changes that we are talking about today we can support many, many more to do that.

[Chris Evans (Islwyn) (Lab/Co-op)]

Croespenmaen in my constituency has worked hard to make its business a success. It has shown faith in Remploy. It is a pity that the Government could not show the same faith in it. Today’s announcement is nothing short of a kick in the teeth. Does the Minister believe that 90 days is long enough for these people to plan their future or try to save their factory?

[Maria Miller]

I know the hon. Gentleman feels very strongly about this. We are absolutely showing faith in disabled people in what we are doing today. The plans and proposals that we have put forward have the full endorsement and backing of many disabled people throughout the country, and the work that has been done by Liz Sayce is an important contribution to the way we can help improve the lives of disabled people in Britain today.

[Sir Alan Meale (Mansfield) (Lab)]

Bearing in mind the Minister’s statement in respect of residential training colleges, she is aware of Portland training college, whose patron is Her Majesty the Queen in this, the diamond jubilee year. Will the Minister accept an invitation to visit that college to meet directors, staff and, of course, students to talk about their future?

[Maria Miller]

As the hon. Gentleman will have heard in my comments earlier, I understand the value of residential training colleges and I will be delighted to accept his invitation.

[Susan Elan Jones (Clwyd South) (Lab)]

Can the Minister tell the House when she envisages that the factories will start closing? I know that there will be a great deal of distress about this in north-east Wales. We do not see it as a state-subsidised industry. We see it as to do with disabled people in a very challenging economic situation.

[Maria Miller]

I understand the hon. Lady’s commitment to supporting disabled people in her constituency. There is a 90-day consultation period, so that will be completed and then we will talk to disabled employees about their futures. I hope we can continue to keep her up to date on that progress.

[Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)]

The Minister gave a shambolic reply to my hon. Friend the Member for Scunthorpe (Nic Dakin), in much the same way as she addressed Remploy workers and the House. What are the redundancy costs calculated to be, and what is the impact on businesses which are customers or suppliers?

[Maria Miller]

It is very difficult to give facts and figures when we are in consultation. That will depend on the outcome of the consultation. I am sure the hon. Gentleman will be able to be furnished with those figures when the consultation is complete.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

Leaving aside the utterly shabby way in which the Minister tried to sneak out the announcement today—[Interruption.] Utterly shabby. Does she not realise that one of the reasons that there are Remploy factories in places such as the Rhondda and in Cynon Valley is that we already have some of the highest levels of unemployment and the highest levels of disability? Will she guarantee that not a single person in the Aberdare factory or in Porth will be forced into redundancy?

[Maria Miller]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for his question and hope that he received my letter, which clarified that I enjoyed my discussions with the Porth factory and very much understand his support for them. I gently remind him that the factory supports 74 disabled people. He needs to ensure that he is also thinking about the 12,400 disabled people in his constituency—[Interruption.] The Porth factory lost around £200,000 last year. We believe that we need to challenge ourselves on how we can use that money more effectively. Last year in Wales employment service—[Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. Mr Bryant, you asked a question. Please listen to the answer and stop shouting across the Chamber at the Minister.

[Maria Miller]

I was simply going to point out that 2,000 disabled people got very good jobs in Wales last year. The hon. Gentleman really needs to focus on the fact that there are employment opportunities there, but we need to ensure that his constituents and those of other hon. Members have the skills and support to be able to take those jobs up.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. I ask Members to leave the Chamber quietly and save their congratulations for outside, Mr Lloyd, so that we can proceed.

Oral Answers to Questions

Maria Miller Excerpts

Monday 5th March 2012 Commons Chamber

[Andrew Griffiths (Burton) (Con)]

3. What steps his Department is taking to support students who suspend their studies due to illness.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Maria Miller)]

It is important to support students who become seriously ill. Those whose illness or disability causes them to suspend their studies with the agreement of their college may be eligible for disability living allowance, which has a three-month qualifying period. A student in receipt of DLA can also claim employment and support allowance. However, those who are terminally ill are not subject to the qualifying period and can claim DLA and ESA immediately.

[Andrew Griffiths]

My constituent Ian Leech sadly lost his daughter Melissa to non-Hodgkin’s lymphoma in 2008, while she was a student. It was six months before Mel received any financial support from the Government. I am proud that last year the Government removed an important barrier to seriously ill students receiving support, by ending the rule that said that those who had to suspend their studies would be treated as having received their student loan. However, those students cannot claim ESA unless they qualify for DLA, even though they might be suffering from a disease such as cancer. Will the Minister look again at what more can be done to help students?

[Maria Miller]

I am very much aware of the case that my hon. Friend raises and pay tribute to Mr Leech, who has been a tireless campaigner for change in this area. Employment and support allowance is an income-replacement benefit; therefore, students are eligible only under limited circumstances, because their main source of financial support is the education system. However, I understand my hon. Friend’s point that a three-month qualifying period for DLA means that some long-term sick students might have to serve a waiting period before they become eligible for ESA. I am taking the opportunity presented by the introduction of PIP— the personal independence payment—to reconsider the position, and I can tell him that I am looking closely at it.

[Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab)]

A constituent of mine, Mr Ollie Evans, had to interrupt his studies owing to a serious illness. He was unable to claim the various benefits that the Minister has outlined; at the same time, the Student Loans Company was clawing back all types of support that it had given him. Will she commit to working in collaboration with the Minister for Universities and Science to put in place a more flexible system of support for students who have to interrupt their studies?

[Maria Miller]

The hon. Gentleman will already be aware that if students fall ill they are eligible for student finance for up to 60 days—I am sure that he will have advised his constituent of that. I can assure him that as PIP is developed and we consider the issue further, we will be talking to colleagues in other Departments. The important thing is that we have the right support in place for long-term sick and disabled students.

[Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con)]

4. What effect he expects the Government’s youth contract to have on the number of unemployed young people.

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[Jessica Morden (Newport East) (Lab)]

15. What steps he is taking to tackle female unemployment.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Maria Miller)]

The Government are supporting women to move into employment, including self-employment, through the Work programme and our business mentoring scheme. We are also improving careers advice and training, and encouraging more women into apprenticeships. The action we are taking to increase flexibility in the workplace and support with child care costs will also help to open up opportunities for women.

[Mr Bain]

I thank the Minister for that answer, but she did not mention the fact that female unemployment is now at a 25-year high. The Daycare Trust has found that, with nursery costs having increased by an average of 6% in the last year, some families are no longer better off in work once child care costs are taken into account. When will the Government accept that the self-defeating cuts in child care tax credit have made the female jobs crisis far worse?

[Maria Miller]

The hon. Gentleman will also know that we are doing a great deal to help to make child care more affordable for those parents who need to use it. Early years education has been increased to 15 hours a week for all three and four-year-olds and our support for disadvantaged two-year-olds has increased by £760 million. An extra £300 million will go in through the universal credit to help women who are currently working limited hours to get access to subsidised child care. This is the sort of practical support that can truly help.

[Jessica Morden]

In Wales, women are currently being hit disproportionately hard by job losses. Indeed, last month’s unemployment figures show that there were 2,000 more women out of work but 5,000 fewer men out of work. As the public sector job losses begin to bite, what extra are the Government doing to help women in this regard?

[Maria Miller]

We entirely understand, and take very seriously, the challenges women face in getting back into the workplace, including the problem of retaining jobs. That is why the Minister with responsibility for employment, my right hon. Friend the Member for Epsom and Ewell (Chris Grayling), is putting so much effort into the Work programme and universal credit, both of which will help many hundreds of thousands of workless households into work. Again, that is the sort of practical support that can truly make a difference for women.

[Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

Of the 348 current vacancies listed at the Malton job centre, some of the hardest to fill are care worker posts. Will the Minister use her good offices to ensure that women returning to work are pointed in that direction as well as to skills such as national vocational qualifications?

[Maria Miller]

My hon. Friend is right: care work is now a very important job in all our communities. Jobcentre Plus has a number of vacancies in that area, and it is always trying to ensure that people with the appropriate training apply for them. As she rightly says, we also need to ensure that people have access to training, and the Work programme can help in that respect.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Motivation, employability and skills are the attributes that best help unemployed men and women into the workplace. Will my hon. Friend the Minister congratulate Conservative-led Kettering borough council, of which I am a member, on its employability and skills fair to be held this Friday, which will bring together local unemployed men and women with agencies and employers in an attempt to tackle the unemployment situation head-on?

[Maria Miller]

My hon. Friend is right: we should applaud the work of those councils, including Kettering, that ensure that such skills fairs take place. Through them, unemployed people can learn not only where the jobs are but where the training can be found. There are currently more women starting apprenticeships than men, which shows that great changes can be made.

[Ian Austin (Dudley North) (Lab)]

Despite promising policies to cut unemployment and make work pay, the Government are supporting measures that will leave many mums better off out of work. Is it not clear that these out-of-touch Ministers have not got a clue what life is like for mums struggling with food and fuel bills, given that their benefit and tax changes will cost the average family £580 this year, with thousands being hit by up to £4,000 as a result of the tax credit cuts alone?

[Maria Miller]

I am sorry, but rather than leaving the country with the massive deficit that the hon. Gentleman’s party left us, the Government are putting practical programmes in place—if these had been done when his party was in government, the country would perhaps not be facing the current fiscal deficit.

[George Eustice (Camborne and Redruth) (Con)]

14. What assessment he has made of the effect of employment trends on the operation of the Work programme.

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[Mr Speaker]

I feel an Adjournment debate coming on, and it will not be long.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Maria Miller)]

I know that blue badges are incredibly important for disabled people in getting out and about and I understand the hon. Gentleman’s concerns. The Under-Secretary of State for Transport, my hon. Friend the Member for Lewes (Norman Baker), is looking into the issues to do with blue badges, and I will make sure that he is aware of the comments that have been made.

[Jonathan Reynolds (Stalybridge and Hyde) (Lab/Co-op)]

T6. Further to the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East (Gregg McClymont) from the Front Bench, do Ministers agree that the current restrictions on the National Employment Savings Trust that restrict transfers and limit the amount that can be saved each year diminish the pressure on other established providers to bring down their excess costs and charges? While the Government are reflecting on this, surely they are missing an opportunity to make pensions more affordable for everyone.

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[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

One of my constituents recently had his adoption allowance cut because his child received disability living allowance. We managed to get that overturned but can the Minister make sure that guidelines are issued so that adoption allowance is not cut when DLA, which is intended to meet essential needs, is received?

[Maria Miller]

I thank the hon. Lady for that question. Disability living allowance is not linked to employment or income, so I shall look into the issue she raises in more detail.

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

T7. The Work programme is proving to be much needed and effective, but may I seek reassurance from the Secretary of State that there will be downstream activity from contracts so that small businesses and local community projects can also participate in delivering outcomes?

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[Anna Soubry (Broxtowe) (Con)]

My constituent Andrew Taylor relies on the Motability scheme in order that he can work and live independently. His concern is that the personal independence payment thresholds will interfere with that. What assurance can the Minister give him, please?

[Maria Miller]

I entirely understand the importance of mobility and being able to get out and about for disabled people. It is our intention that Motability should continue to be linked to the new PIP scheme. I take my hon. Friend’s comments into account.

[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

Beverley Herbert in my constituency was one of six people recently employed on a work experience basis by a major pub chain. Within four weeks, four of the others had gone, and the two people who were there for eight weeks collecting glasses were given permanent jobs, but were sacked within two weeks. Does the Secretary of State agree that for the work experience programme to enjoy widespread confidence, safeguards are needed to ensure that it does not end up exploiting people and providing free labour?