Disabled People on Benefits: EHRC Investigation

Mims Davies Excerpts

Thursday 23rd May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Marion Fellows (Motherwell and Wishaw) (SNP)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions if he will make a statement on the Equality and Human Rights Commission investigation into the treatment of disabled people on benefits.

[The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Mims Davies)]

It is a pleasure to be called to the Dispatch Box to respond for the Department for Work and Pensions this morning. The Department is absolutely committed to providing services through which every customer, including disabled people and our most vulnerable claimants, can experience fair opportunity and access to our services to ensure they get the support they need.

The Department has been in negotiations with the EHRC since 2021 on this matter. It is disappointing that we have not been able to come to a mutually agreeable position. As the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions stated yesterday during his Select Committee appearance, our existing legal advice and understanding is that both the EHRC and the DWP are still bound by confidentiality. We are seeking further clarity on what we can share, so I will not discuss those negotiations further.

While I do not believe an investigation is necessary, we at the Department do of course take the EHRC’s concerns seriously. We welcome the focus now provided in the terms of reference. We will work constructively with the commission in its investigation to better understand its concerns. I hope the investigation will provide a deeper insight into some of the most complex cases that the Department deals with. Of course, if any improvements are identified by the commission we will, rightly, take steps to address them.

[Marion Fellows]

I thank the Minister for her answer. I have great respect for her, but if she is telling the House that the Government have been in negotiations with the EHRC for three years and this is where we are now, that is ridiculous and absolutely underlines what many in this House, including myself, have been saying to the Government for more than three years. The Scottish National party has been challenging the Government over their treatment of those with illness or disability, and therefore we welcome this overdue investigation by the EHRC.

Full transparency and accountability are imperative so that the mistakes of the past are never repeated; we know about that from all the other investigations that have been taking place recently. If it does transpire that either the DWP or the Secretary of State, or both, have breached equality law, the strongest possible action must be taken. It is the least those who have suffered at the hands of this Government deserve.

I have spoken over the years to many disability organisations and they are appalled at how disabled people are treated, as am I. The United Nations Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities rapporteur has concluded that the UK Government have

“failed to take all appropriate measures to address grave and systematic violations of the human rights of persons with disabilities”.

That is a further black mark against this Government. I have said it time and again: the UK Government must change course from their cruel and demonising approach to disabled people and start supporting them in the way being done in Scotland. The words dignity, fairness and respect mean something to disabled people in Scotland. The Scottish social security system is designed to treat people with dignity, fairness and respect. When on earth will this Government, or the likely following Labour Government, start doing that in the UK? It is an absolute and utter disgrace.

The proposed welfare reforms are dangerous and look to slash disabled people’s incomes during an ongoing cost of living crisis, when disabled people are already facing higher living costs. More people are being pushed into insecure and unsafe work and the Government are undermining the principle of an extra costs benefit for disabled people. Now we have this EHRC investigation. How can the Minister possibly defend her Government’s ongoing assault on disabled rights just to cut costs?

[Mims Davies]

I agree with the hon. Lady. We have much we agree about and real mutual respect, and I know her concerns come from the heart. I reiterate that we are a compassionate Department, welcoming to all, and we are keen to get insights and learnings. I have given evidence on that, most recently to the Select Committee, making it clear that we are a learning Department focused on individuals. In fact, our trauma-informed approach is testament to that. I recently saw that in Hastings, and it is being rolled out in South Yorkshire, Plymouth and all our DWP innovation hubs to successfully drive a programme of understanding into our core business areas, including the child maintenance area and service areas. From a meeting with my DWP colleagues, I know what a big difference it makes.

We engage right across the UK with a multi-agency approach. The hon. Lady will be pleased to know that I recently met the independent reviewer of the personal independence payment and benefits—there is that process in Scotland—for a mutual learning and understanding experience. Reforms that are being brought out are about disabled people’s voices being fully heard and understood, whether that is through our national disability strategy or our action plan this year. I also recently engaged with the Domestic Abuse Commissioner, Nicole Jacobs, who covers England and Wales, and this gives me a chance to pay tribute to her. We have been trying hard to understand tragic and complex cases. Our sympathies are always with the families, and we will continue those internal process reviews.

I hope that the Chairman of the Select Committee, the right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms), will reflect on the useful evidence that was given. We have a growing number of visiting officers for some of the most vulnerable—we currently have 500—and we have 200 dedicated prison work coaches. I want anybody watching, studying or reading this urgent question to approach us and talk to us. Many people become involved with the DWP at the most challenging times of their lives. We are here to help people, whether through our youth hubs or our disability work coaches. Please tell us what is going on. We can link people to the right agencies, and we are determined to understand what the commission is thinking and feeling and to work with it.

[Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) (Con)]

My hon. Friend the Minister will be aware of the work that my Select Committee has done around the national disability strategy, but I specifically draw her attention to the words of the right hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Dame Diana Johnson) earlier this week: nothing about me without me. What reassurance can the Minister give me that disabled people will be fully included in the ongoing consultation on personal independence payments? What reassurance can she give me that she continues to work with Disability Confident to ensure that disabled people are enabled to move into work and supported when they are in work? What reassurance can she give me that the victims of contaminated blood, sodium valproate, Primodos, and mesh will not be subject to ongoing assessments year after year to make sure that they continue their entitlement to benefits? What reassurance can she give me that she agrees that inclusion is not wokery, and that including disabled people is crucial to ensuring that their rights are upheld?

[Mims Davies]

I was looking forward to giving evidence to my right hon. Friend on many of these matters, alongside my hon. Friend the Minister for Employment. Indeed, there was work to come forward on Disability Confident, Access to Work, the disability employment goal and much more.

I point my right hon. Friend to action we have taken, including just this week. There is the Government-backed lilac review on disabled entrepreneurs, which is absolutely about listening to disabled people and having them at the heart of the conversation. Fantastic engagement on British Sign Language, fully in BSL, has been at the heart of that. There has also been the PIP consultation and the wider reform conversation. We have also brought forward the Buckland review.

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right about inclusion. It works because when it is embedded, it is right for the bottom line of the business, the organisation and the community. It is not a “nice to do” and it is not woke; it is what we should be doing.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Roger Gale)]

I call the Opposition Front-Bench spokesperson.

[Dame Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab)]

This is the first time in history that the Equality and Human Rights Commission has decided to investigate whether a Secretary of State has “committed unlawful acts” by discriminating against disabled people as a result of the way that the Government have run the benefit system. According to a report by the all-party parliamentary group for health in all policies, it may have led to

“the deaths of vulnerable claimants, by suicide and other causes”.

Yesterday, appearing before the Work and Pensions Committee, the Secretary of State feigned surprise at the Equality and Human Rights Commission taking that unprecedented step, yet he previously claimed that he and his Department were close to securing a legally binding agreement to uphold disabled people’s rights. I wonder what has changed.

Will the Minister recognise the seriousness of her predicament and apologise to disabled people for her Department’s obvious reluctance to engage meaningfully with the Equality and Human Rights Commission? Why has her Department presided over a benefit system that the commission believes could be unlawfully discriminating against disabled people? Will she take the opportunity to apologise to all those disabled people who have had their life torn apart by her Department’s potentially illegal administration of the benefit system?

[Mims Davies]

Let me first reflect on the Secretary of State’s appearance at the Select Committee. I reiterate that, as he said yesterday, the investigation of the Department is based on a suspicion that something has occurred; that is not in and of itself conclusive proof. The DWP rightly takes its obligations under the Equality Act 2010, including the public sector equality duty, incredibly seriously, and will continue to co-operate with the commission on its investigation. I hope that helps the hon. Lady. We want everyone in the DWP to be able to support customers in an appropriate manner, according to the individual’s needs. Our mental health training and reasonable adjustments guidance helps to empower our colleagues by giving them the skills to support every customer.

It has been the greatest privilege of my life to have been in the most amazing, life-changing Department for almost all of the last five years. We are fully committed to listening to our customers and their representatives about their needs, and to learning from them. Of course people will be concerned about the EHRC’s response, and the Department is genuinely disappointed, because we are constantly learning; work is ongoing to strengthen guidance and training through continuous improvement activity. Our colleagues are local people who live in their community. They know their community and what people need. Whether people are coming through the door are from a local special school, have been made redundant, or have a health condition, DWP staff know those people and want to reassure them. We will continue to give them the necessary tools, and have confidence that our Department will respond in the right way to our most vulnerable customers.

[Matt Hancock (West Suffolk) (Ind)]

As I depart this House as a Conservative MP, I thank you, Sir Roger, for your service and mentoring over my years here. Will the Minister make sure that in the response to the investigation, those working in jobcentres and DWP offices across the country are given the support that they need to do their job? In West Suffolk, they do that job excellently, brilliantly led by Julia Nix, who frankly deserves an honour. It has been a pleasure to work with those people. When the Minister considers the investigation, will she look not only at physical disabilities, including engagement with those who support wheelchair use, but hidden disabilities such as neurodivergent conditions, to the extent that they are disabilities, and ensure that they are at the heart of the response?

[Mims Davies]

I welcome back my right hon. Friend, from whom I learned so much as a Parliamentary Private Secretary. It is pleasing to know that his work on neurodiversity and understanding others continues to be at the heart of what he brings to this House, even in his last few moments here. I was recently at Neurobox in Cambridge, where dyslexia needs were discussed, as well as the wider need in the labour market to learn about understanding, and helping people through, the Access to Work scheme. My right hon. Friend’s interest was mentioned there. Whether we are talking about the Buckland review, the lilac review on entrepreneurship, which I mentioned, or partnerships in communities, such as with Julia Nix, who is stellar leader, those messages are important for those who only hear about the experience of the DWP through the mouths of those in this House. I urge people to go and see their local jobcentre. This week there is a “recruit Britain” campaign, backed by employers, to enable people to understand our jobcentres’ power to bring about change.

[Kirsten Oswald (East Renfrewshire) (SNP)]

Last week, I highlighted to the Minister a report from the UN Committee on the Rights of Persons with Disabilities that concluded that the UK had failed to take all appropriate measures to address grave and systematic violations of the rights of people with disabilities. She said that the UK Government were

“committed to ensuring that the UK is one of the best places to live and work as a disabled person.”—[Official Report, 15 May 2024; Vol. 750, c. 244.]

Does she really stand by that assertion, given the serious concerns raised by the Equality and Human Rights Commission? Does she understand why its chair said that they are extremely worried? The EHRC also said that it believes that the DWP may have broken equality law. What does she have to say to the disabled people watching? She must understand that it is a clear demonstration that this Tory Government are content simply to disregard disabled people, their rights and their needs. If she disagrees, let her tell us specifically why.

[Mims Davies]

I thank the hon. Lady for her remarks. Just this week, I met people with disabilities in the media industry who were thriving while working in ITV, which tries to help people when it comes to wider—

[Kirsten Oswald]

Will the Minister answer my question?

[Mims Davies]

I am just trying to. I met a company that is working to ensure that NHS buildings are more accessible, so the DWP understands that. The hon. Lady asked whether I really believed that the UK could be the best place in which to be a disabled person, in terms of accessibility and opportunity. We are engaging and learning in the context of a changing labour market and changing needs. As for her earlier point, we in the DWP want every customer to be supported, and we are committed to providing a compassionate service for all. We take our obligations under the Equality Act 2010 extremely seriously, and that includes the public sector equality duty.

We will, of course, continue to co-operate with the commission’s investigation. I stand by my comment that we are disappointed to be in this position. We often deal with tragic and complex cases, and our sympathies are always with the families concerned. We will continue to review and learn about processes in order to understand better why the commission is taking this action.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

Navigating the benefits system is difficult enough for able-bodied people, but for those who become disabled because of illness or accidents, it becomes a virtual nightmare, just at the point when they need the system the most. Also, many employers concentrate on what people cannot do, rather than what they can do. Will my hon. Friend update the House on the work being done to ensure that people, particularly those who suffer disability owing to illness or accidents, receive the benefits that they need at their time of greatest crisis?

[Mims Davies]

We are rolling out our WorkWell service, and we have universal support as well. Fifteen integrated care systems will pilot WorkWell; the pilots will be locally designed to fit local needs, and will be linked to our existing work and health systems. Work will be done throughout London. I am not sure whether that will include my hon. Friend’s part of London; I am sure that we will be able to let him know.

As I mentioned, my dad became disabled and was not used to navigating the benefits system. That happens to many people. Many think that people are born with disablement, but it can be acquired as a result of accidents or incidents. The gov.uk website gives information about the benefits calculator and the Citizens Advice help to claim service, and encourages people to see a disability employment adviser.

My hon. Friend asked what more could be done. Notwithstanding the great support provided by programmes such as Access to Work, there is more that can be done, but that safety net is there to protect people when they are at their most vulnerable, whatever the reason.

[Sir Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

Disabled people’s confidence in the Department is at a terribly low ebb. We were originally told that these negotiations would be concluded within a few months, but in fact, as the Minister has told us, they dragged on for three years, and they failed. The commission has told me that now that negotiations have ended, there are no restrictions on what the Department can say about what was happening during those negotiations. At the very least, we need some explanation from the Department of why it has not been possible to reach an agreement. Can the Minister give us that explanation now?

[Mims Davies]

I thank the Chair of the Select Committee for his question. As I have said, we will work constructively with the commission during its investigation in order to understand its concerns better. We are seeking further clarity on what information we can share, but until those conversations have ended, I will not be in a position to share any further information.

The Secretary of State, of course, made his comments to the Department, but the permanent secretary told the Committee that the terms of reference had been published, and we welcome that, because it will give us a clearer sense of what the commission wants to investigate. We hope that a deeper insight into that very complex machine will allay some of the concerns that the right hon. Gentleman has rightly identified, and if there have been breaches or improvements can be made, we will of course address that. The Department is constantly learning, and work is being done to strengthen guidance and training through continuous improvement activity.

The right hon. Gentleman mentioned confidence. It is important that colleagues and those with disablement feel confident that we have the necessary tools to help our most vulnerable claimants, and of course we will take account of everything that the commission says.

[Jeremy Corbyn (Islington North) (Ind)]

I am indebted to the hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows) for obtaining today’s urgent question, and she is correct to say that policy should be based on fairness, dignity and respect. In dealing with cases, I find that those with mental health conditions, including sporadic mental health conditions, are often unfairly sanctioned, go through much deeper stress and sometimes end up in desperate poverty as a result. In advance of the inquiry, could the Minister tell us what the Department is doing to ensure that the sanctions regime against people with disabilities, particularly those with mental health conditions, operates in a much more respectful and inclusive manner that helps them to deal with the horrible problems they are trying to cope with?

[Mims Davies]

The right hon. Gentleman makes an important point about fluctuating conditions and needs, which he is absolutely correct to identify. We have a growing number of visiting officers—500—and a growing number of colleagues with a trauma-informed approach, and there is close engagement with wider safeguarding. Having a trusted relationship with one’s work coach, job coach and disability employment adviser is so important, and this is at the heart of our safeguarding protocols, which are in place for healthcare professionals who undertake assessments. If they identify a new condition or concern, they will ensure that the individual’s healthcare team are aware and communicating directly with them. Again, that is why we have the trauma-informed approach. I recently saw it being used at the Hastings service centre, where decisions are made on child maintenance, and at jobcentres. The approach is being rolled out in order to be at the heart of what we do.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

In all the time I have been in this House—it is quite a long time—I have never picked on civil servants or the people who deliver policies on the ground, because I am always reminded that President Harry Truman had a sign on his desk that said, “The buck stops here”. The buck stops here with the Government, but let me reinforce a point that was made earlier. My constituents tell me—as chairman of the Westminster Commission on Autism, I am sympathetic towards this—that the staff they meet are good about physical disability, but are not good when it comes to neurodiversity, people on the autism spectrum and people with little-known mental health challenges. Can we give more training to the people who carry out assessments to make them more effective and efficient?

[Mims Davies]

I agree with the hon. Gentleman that the nature of disability and need has changed, which is what I was trying to draw out earlier. Different types of needs are coming our way. We all know from our own constituency casework about the support that disabled people need in any realm, and it is about understanding the different needs and appreciating that needs change. I can assure him that the Department works closely with healthcare assessors, and has put in a new process to allow personal independence payments to be paused when an appointment has already been scheduled—for example, if we need to have additional information. We are very aware that claimants’ needs are different—hence the Buckland review of autism. We know that a huge number of autistic people are very keen to work, but not enough of them do, and this is at the heart of our understanding. I think the hon. Gentleman and I share the same view on this issue. The Department will need to make changes and develop its understanding, and I want to reassure the House that we come in the spirit of learning.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The Minister is always compassionate and understands the issues, as we can tell from the way she responds. As I often say, however, the benefits system leads to incredible frustration. When those who are disabled have their applications refused, they go to appeal. The biggest issue in my office is benefits, including appeals; we have one staff member who does nothing else during the five-and-a-half-day week that she works. Although we recognise that DWP staff do a good job, there needs to be a better understanding of how the system works. When someone fills in their application, there needs to be a better understanding of what it means to have chronic obstructive pulmonary disease, osteoarthritis, diabetes, blood pressure problems, back pain, chronic pain. Those are the issues. When we win 85% of appeals, it indicates that perhaps the first decision was not right.

[Mims Davies]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for the way he approaches this matter. It also gives a chance for all of us to thank our casework teams who do so much, and indeed all the staff across DWP. They know that our customers vary. They know that, at times in their lives, they need additional support. That is why we have those specialist services, roles and procedures in place, from the DWP visiting service to the advanced customer support senior leaders. We have the serious case panel review, and we have the customer experience survey. We are always listening and learning, and there is a continuous need to do that. On fluctuating conditions, which other Members have mentioned, we have put a better understanding of needs and diagnoses at the heart of our engagement on reforms, and that is what disabled people have told me as well.

[Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (Lab)]

Ministers have had three years to reach a basic agreement to ensure that the services that the Department provides are accessible and do not discriminate against disabled people. Is it laziness, incompetence or the chaos endemic across Government that has resulted in the absolute failure to reach a negotiation? Can the Minister acknowledge that this failure has never been seen in any other Department before, and represents, under the Equality Act, a further demonstration of discrimination against disabled people? The failure of the negotiations itself represents the problem.

[Mims Davies]

I reiterate to the House, and to the hon. Gentleman, that we take our obligations under the Equality Act incredibly seriously. I have spoken about the changing nature of conditions, understanding and learning, and the public sector equality duty, and we will continue to co-operate and engage with the commission on its investigation. As I said, we do not believe that an investigation is necessary, but we do take its concerns seriously. I undertake to the House that the Department will be focused on those new terms of reference so that we can work constructively with the commission, in its investigation, to better understand its concerns. [Interruption.] I understand the concerns of the hon. Member for East Renfrewshire (Kirsten Oswald), who is chuntering again, but I reiterate to the hon. Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Neil Coyle) that we are very much determined to work with the commission as a way forward. I agree that it is very disappointing that we have not been able to come to a mutually agreeable position. I assure him that, over the past five years, this very large Department, which deals with many different areas and complex case, has put at the heart of what we do—of which I am extremely proud—a dedicated understanding of the individual and their needs.

[Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows) on securing this urgent question and continuing her fantastic work in this Parliament on the rights of disabled people. I also congratulate the Equality and Human Rights Commission on opening this important investigation and on retaining its A-grade status as a national human rights institution in the face of malicious attempts to undermine the work that it does for equality and human rights for all.

I work with many fantastic disability charities in my Edinburgh South West constituency, including Health All Round, Tiphereth and Garvald, but charities should not have to fill the huge gaps left by the Government’s dereliction of their duties. Discrimination against disabled people is a human rights issue, and that is something about which I care passionately as the elected Chair of Parliament’s Joint Committee on Human Rights.

As we are about to go into a general election period, will the Minister take the opportunity to give a cast-iron guarantee on behalf of her party that she will end discrimination against disabled people in the benefits system and end her Government’s continuing breaches of disabled people’s human rights?

[Mims Davies]

I appreciate that there is a general election coming but, when it come to the most vulnerable people, this is not a morning for politicking. It is about being compassionate, it is about understanding disabled people’s rights and it is about listening and learning. We are focusing on individuals by working with the domestic abuse commissioner and through WorkWell’s universal support, the national disability strategy, the action plan and the trauma-informed approach.

Vitally, as the hon. and learned Lady says, it is about hearing not just from disabled charities but from disabled people across the country to understand their needs. It is incredibly important that we take this seriously, and we are determined that, if the investigation under the terms of reference gives us a deeper insight into the concerns— I have spoken to the Select Committee about how the Department deals with the most complex cases—we will take every step to address any improvements identified by the commission. I hope that gives the hon. and learned Lady, disabled people and those with health conditions comfort that we take their needs and wants extremely seriously at the heart of Government.

Pensions (Special Rules for End of Life) Bill

Mims Davies Excerpts

Report stage
Friday 17th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Dame Angela Eagle (Wallasey) (Lab)]

I rise just to seek some reassurance on the amendments. I am not at all against them in principle—when I read them on the amendment paper, I could understand what the right hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) was attempting to do and exactly why—but it strikes me that they rather run roughshod over established procedures, particularly with respect to the devolved Administrations, by giving quite a strict timetable. I wonder whether the Minister could reassure the House. Although it is not the case here, the changes made by Bills can often be quite complex and have to be made appropriately, and putting a very hard stop in a Bill, regardless of context, sets rather a difficult precedent.

Although I do not object to what the right hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal is trying to do, I was slightly surprised by the bulldozer approach that the amendments create. In this circumstance it is manageable, but it might not be quite so manageable in other, more complex circumstances. I suppose I seek some reassurance from the Minister about the precedent that the amendments will set. How wide will it go? Are we going to start including in Bills a precise timetable for when they will be put into effect, with a hard stop, regardless of their complexity?

I understand that the hon. Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson) wants his Bill—we all want this to be done quickly—but there are some precedents being created here that would be slightly worrying if they were to extend more widely. I wonder whether the Minister might give us some thoughts and insights in that respect. I want to make it clear that the Opposition do not object to the Bill at all, but I am quite surprised by the innovative way in which the right hon. Member for Suffolk Coastal has sought to pursue her desire to get this thing done quickly.

[The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Mims Davies)]

I thank my right hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey) for her considered amendments, and for the reasoned arguments behind them. I know that she has been engaging extensively with our excellent officials at the DWP, whom she knows extremely well.

The hon. Member for Wallasey (Dame Angela Eagle) asked about innovations. My right hon. Friend is incredibly innovative, and I am not surprised that that is attracting attention. Let me also thank my hon. Friend the Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson) for the attentive way in which he has listened to all this. As for the question of precedent, it is not unusual for Bills to have set commencement dates when we are sure that they can be commenced on the date in question. I hope that that reassures the hon. Lady.

I think we can all agree that we want the provisions in the Bill to be commenced with minimal delay. They are important, and will provide much-needed financial support up to six months earlier than is currently the case for those who have received the devastating news that they have a terminal illness. My right hon. Friend is clearly mindful of that following her own experience in the DWP, and it is what is driving these changes. They build on the work that the Department began in 2022, under her formidable and inspiring leadership. She will be only too well aware of the importance that the Department has placed on doing all that it can to help people at these difficult times.

The amendments are intended to ensure that the Bill specifies the point at which the provisions will come into force. They provide for this to be a period of four months after the Bill has received Royal Assent. Putting the commencement date on the face of the Bill would mean that the Secretary of State’s power to make regulations commencing the provisions, or transitional or saving provisions, would no longer be necessary, and amendments 2, 3, 5 and 6 seek to remove all those provisions. Similar amendments are made to the provisions covering Northern Ireland, and at this point it may be prudent to remind the House that the Northern Ireland Assembly has already provided a legislative consent order for the Bill as drafted. I hope that that reassures my right hon. Friend.

When the Bill was drafted towards the end of last year, it was unclear to the Department how quickly the Pension Protection Fund would be able to implement the changes. The decision to commence them via a commencement order gave the Department the flexibility to ensure that the fund was in a position to implement the new conditions at commencement, and that the corresponding changes to the Financial Assistance Scheme Regulations 2005 could be made at the same time. In Committee, the Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard), was very clear about commencement, saying:

“I can confirm today that the intention is for that to happen as soon as practicable after Royal Assent. I see no reason for delay or obfuscation.” ––[Official Report, Pensions (Special Rules for End of Life) Public Bill Committee, 24 April 2024; c. 10.]

Hopefully we are all agreed, and can all be assured that we have absolutely no intention of creating any unnecessary delay in enacting these vital measures, which will make a massive difference to people at the most difficult time in their lives, and, indeed, to their families, bringing real comfort.

At the end of Committee stage on 24 April, officials from the Department sought further clarification from the Pension Protection Fund on how quickly it could implement the changes. Its response was very positive, and I want to put on record our appreciation for the work it has been undertaking. It has confirmed that its internal teams have been working towards having everything ready by the beginning of July, the earliest date on which the Bill could potentially have received Royal Assent. I therefore confirm to my right hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal that DWP officials have been in touch with their counterparts in the Department for Communities in Northern Ireland, who have helpfully confirmed that they do not envisage any problem with commencing the relevant Northern Ireland provisions in a timely manner to retain parity across the United Kingdom.

Notwithstanding the point made by the hon. Member for Wallasey, and with that in mind, I see no reason why the Department cannot meet the new requirement that the amendments will impose, and I have recommended that the Government do not oppose them. I thank my right hon. Friend for raising her concerns and bringing them to the House in the manner and the style that she did.

Amendment 1 agreed to.

Amendments made: 4, page 2, line 1, leave out from “force” to end of line 2 and insert—

“at the end of the period of four months beginning with the day on which this Act is passed.”

This amendment would bring the provisions of the Bill which extend only to Northern Ireland into force four months after Royal assent.

Amendment 2, page 2, line 5, leave out subsection (7)

This amendment is consequential on Amendment 1.

Amendment 5, page 2, line 7, leave out subsection (8).

This amendment is consequential on Amendment 4.

Amendment 3, page 2, line 10, leave out subsection (9).

This amendment is consequential on Amendment 1.

Amendment 6, page 2, line 12, leave out subsection (10) —(Dr Coffey.)

This amendment is consequential on Amendment 4.

Third Reading

--- Later in debate ---

[Mims Davies]

I am very grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson) for bringing this important legislation to the House and for the way he has successfully navigated it to this stage. I thank him for his important speech and insights on why the Bill matters, matched equally by those of my hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Nickie Aiken).

I thank the hon. Member for Wallasey (Dame Angela Eagle) for her support for the Bill. She asked why these regulations were not included in the 2022 Act. Unfortunately, they were out of scope as that Bill was altering entitlement conditions for benefits. I assure her my officials have said no other areas are in need of amending—I see that gets the thumbs up from the Opposition Dispatch Box. On consistent definition, the Bill will build on previous legislation that changed special rules for social security benefit. This final change brings the payments made by the Pension Protection Fund and financial assistance scheme into alignment with those changes.

I thank all Members who have taken part in the debates that have led the Bill to progress to this stage, including the Committee stage, and for the cross-party support it has rightly received. As has been outlined, the Bill builds on the 2022 changes the Government introduced to social security benefits. That legislation was welcomed by excellent key charities, such as Marie Curie, the Motor Neurone Disease Association and Macmillan Cancer Support. It changed the special rules for a number of benefits, ensuring claims were rightly fast tracked. Those who were thought to be in the final year of their life were able to receive vital financial support six months earlier.

This week is Dementia Action Week, bringing the UK together to take action on dementia and promoting an understanding of its impact. The Alzheimer’s Society and many groups and charities do so much on this important issue. I extend my thanks to them from the Dispatch Box.

By extending the definition of terminal illness from six to 12 months’ life expectancy for payments under both the Pension Protection Fund and the financial assistance scheme, the Bill completes the journey. The Bill will mean that members are able to rightly claim compensation on the ground of terminal illness, if a medical professional confirms that they have less than 12 months to live, rather than the current six months.

Hon. Members have spoken about the terrible time that people will be going through and the financial impact. There is often more financial assistance than perhaps people know, if they are not used to being part of the benefits arena. I urge people to look at the benefits calculator at gov.uk and to work with Citizens Advice, which runs our help to claim service, so that costs can be met and understood at a difficult time.

To assure the hon. Member for Wallasey, in my role as Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work, I met with the Minister for Energy Security and Net Zero, my hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson), this week to discuss costs and other matters concerning the national disability strategy and the disability action plan. As the hon. Lady said, the issue is at the forefront of my mind and we are aligned on those concerns.

Decisions on terminal illness will be made by healthcare professionals, such as clinicians and medical practitioners. We thank them for that great work at such a difficult time, as pointed out by my hon. Friend the Member for Tewkesbury. As we heard during Committee stage, the definition will include advanced cancer, dementia, motor neurone disease and other neurological diseases, such as Parkinson’s disease.

The changes restore the original policy intent of alignment between the social security special rules, and the Pension Protection Fund and financial assistance scheme terminal illness rules. Just as importantly, they bring both schemes in line with the tax definition of serious ill health, which currently allows private pension schemes to make payments when the member has less than 12 months to live. I will briefly reiterate what I said in the earlier debate on the amendments and repeat what the Minister for Pensions said in Committee: it was never our intention to delay the commencement of these provisions. There is no practical reason for us to do so. However, as discussed today, putting a commencement date on the face of the Bill will provide certainty around the change at a time when people value certainty, and we will ensure that the provisions can commence four months after Royal Assent, as signalled.

I do not want to detain the House any further. We know that being told you are nearing the end of your life can be a frightening experience not only for the individual concerned, but for their family and their loved ones. This Bill, although seemingly small, will have a really positive impact on those whom the provisions cover, at a very difficult time. As with the 2022 Act, the Bill will ensure that when someone reaches the final stages of life, they will not have those additional financial concerns. Receiving a payment at an earlier stage in their final illness will help those people to plan more effectively, providing them with the opportunity to focus on their time with the people who matter to them.

This debate gives me the opportunity to thank the St Peter & St James Hospice, the Hospice in the Weald, St Catherine’s Hospice in Pease Pottage, those local hospices that I am sure we all have, and those charities mentioned in this debate, who bring real comfort and support in all our constituencies at such difficult times. This Bill will help people to live well to the end, with their loved ones and with that comfort. I greatly thank my hon. Friend the Member for Tewkesbury for bringing the Bill forward. We all wish it safe and speedy passage through the other place, so that it can reach the statute book and support those who need it, our loved ones and people in our communities, with no undue delay.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

With the leave of the House, I call Laurence Robertson.

Oral Answers to Questions

Mims Davies Excerpts

Monday 13th May 2024 Commons Chamber

[Neil Coyle (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (Lab)]

9. What steps his Department is taking to reduce waiting times for Access to Work assessments.

[The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Mims Davies)]

Access to Work remains in high demand. We have increased the number of staff processing Access to Work claims, and are prioritising both renewal applications and applications from customers about to start a job. We are also improving the service through increased digitalisation to reduce the time from application to decision.

[Neil Coyle]

On this, there is a litany of broken promises to disabled people. Ministers have failed to tackle the backlog, failed to open the scheme to more employers, failed to extend the scheme to apprenticeships and failed to passport packages of support. So why have Ministers now decided to hit disabled people with more brutal cuts to PIP, when they have not supported disabled people into work through Access to Work?

[Mims Davies]

The average timescale for an Access to Work application decision in April 2024 was 43.9 days. We have increased the staff on applications, redeploying 95 staff from wider DWP work. Despite the hon. Gentleman’s points, claims for reimbursement are in a good position within a 10-day ambition to pay. It reflects the ambition that employers have and their mindset change to be more open-minded with their recruitment, and I am delighted about that.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Vicky Foxcroft (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab)]

Let’s get some facts. On 1 January 2024, there were 24,874 people awaiting an Access to Work decision, on 1 February, 26,924, on 1 March, 29,871 and on 1 April, 32,445. Every month, the figure keeps increasing, so since the beginning of 2024 the Access to Work backlog has risen by more than 7,500. Does the Minister really think this is supporting more disabled people back into work?

[Mims Davies]

I thank the hon. Lady for her points. If we are trading figures, at the close of business on 7 May 2024, there were 36,721 applications awaiting decision. I remind those people listening why this matters. This is very significant support—demand-led support—for people who are getting opportunities to work or taking on new roles. This grant can provide up to £66,000-worth of flexible personalised support per person per year. It is absolutely right that we get the right information from the individual and take time to approve a significant application such as this.

[Vicky Foxcroft]

I am absolutely shocked that the Minister brags about the Access to Work backlog increasing to 36,721.

Last month, the UN published its latest review of how the UK has implemented its convention on the rights of disabled persons, the first since 2017. The Access to Work backlog was just one of the many reasons cited as evidence that the Government are still failing to take all appropriate measures to address grave and systemic violations of disabled people’s rights. Does the Minister have any plans to put this right by finally implementing the UN’s recommendations, or is she going to ignore them, as successive Tory Governments have consistently ignored disabled people?

[Mims Davies]

I am disappointed not to be enough of a bragger in this House, but I am very pleased that we are taking time to make sure that the tailored support is correct. We are working around fit notes and occupational health. We are also listening to those who are deaf and hard of hearing, who make up 36% of the total Access to Work expenditure, and I will be bringing more to the House on that matter. We are absolutely focused on improving this, with online 24/7 applications for Access to Work. On the other points the hon. Lady makes, if she listens to the BBC “Access All” podcast, she will hear me say that we are very disappointed about that report. We continue to work very hard for disabled people and we will be doing all we can to make sure they are listened to—unlike her not listening to a word I said just now.

[Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Con)]

10. What steps he is taking to help fill job vacancies in Sittingbourne and Sheppey constituency.

--- Later in debate ---

[Peter Gibson (Darlington) (Con)]

13. What steps his Department is taking to support people with autism into employment.

[The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Mims Davies)]

We are continuing to run programmes to support autistic people into employment, including local supported employment, Disability Confident and Access to Work. The Department for Work and Pensions will also be working with stakeholders to support the independent task group carrying forward the recommendations following the Buckland review of autism employment.

[Peter Gibson]

May I draw my hon. Friend’s attention to the efforts by Darlington building society, along with other companies in the region, supporting the North East Autism Society to help create 1,000 jobs for people with autism? Can my hon. Friend highlight the work being done by the fantastic team at Darlington jobcentre, with their health and welfare roadshow this Wednesday to help people get back into work?

[Mims Davies]

I thank my hon. Friend for bringing to the attention of the House the important initiatives going on in his patch in Darlington. Such local programmes have a huge impact in helping autistic people into work and tackling stigma. Once established, I am sure that the Buckland review task group will be interested to hear direct details of the work being done in his area.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Minister is right that the Buckland inquiry and report are a breath of fresh air. I contributed to that inquiry as chair of the Westminster Commission on Autism. However, is it not a fact that too often people on the autism spectrum—or any spectrum—are undervalued in terms of their huge potential to do great things in our economy in many jobs? Will she look at early diagnosis, which is so important?

[Mims Davies]

The hon. Gentleman and the Minister for Employment, my hon. Friend the Member for Bury St Edmunds (Jo Churchill), are linking together on this. We have specialist SWAPs for people on the autism spectrum so that we can see that talent and ability. Autistica estimates that one in 70 people are autistic—that is around 1 million across the UK—but sadly just three in 10 of working-age autistic disabled people are in employment, and the Government are determined to tackle that with the review.

[Craig Tracey (North Warwickshire) (Con)]

14. What steps his Department is taking to help reduce unemployment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ian Blackford (Ross, Skye and Lochaber) (SNP)]

On 14 September 2023, I led a Backbench Business debate in this House, supported by the hon. Members for Moray (Douglas Ross) and for Easington (Grahame Morris). We asked the Government to take action on footballers with brain-related injuries. The Minister who responded spoke warmly, and the then Minister at DWP, the hon. Member for Corby (Tom Pursglove), indicated that there would be a meeting for the three of us, on a cross-party basis, with the Industrial Injuries Advisory Council. I wrote to the Minister on 18 January and 13 March, and there was a Westminster Hall debate on 24 April, but nothing has yet happened. Can we get that meeting with the Industrial Injuries Advisory Council to make sure that we get footballers with brain injuries the support they need?

[The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Mims Davies)]

I have already met the chair of the Industrial Injuries Advisory Council in my role as the Minister for Disabled People, and I will continue to engage on whatever is required. To be clear, the council is considering any connection between neurodegenerative diseases and professional sportspeople, and will publish its findings once the investigation is complete. I have also met the Sports Minister and will be keen to share this issue with colleagues. I will come back to the right hon. Gentleman.

[Steve Tuckwell (Uxbridge and South Ruislip) (Con)]

T9. This Conservative Government’s next generation of welfare reforms are to be warmly welcomed. The NHS North West London ICB, which covers Uxbridge and South Ruislip, has been selected as a lead partner for one of the new WorkWell pilot areas. Will my hon. Friend meet me to discuss how we can maximise the programme’s effectiveness in integrating health advice for my constituents?

[Mims Davies]

I welcome my hon. Friend’s interest in WorkWell, which is a significant intervention. I am not sure about the Secretary of State’s diary or mine, but we are keen to meet and to highlight the work of the NHS North West London ICB. It is one of 15 partnerships, which are backed by £64 million-worth of investment. It will design integrated WorkWell services and deliver them to around 59,000 disabled people so that they can start, stay and succeed in work.

--- Later in debate ---

[Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con)]

I have visited the old Rehau building in Amlwch, which is being repurposed with business units and a new jobcentre for the north of the island. Will the Minister visit Amlwch, meet some of my constituents and personally thank the team who have worked so hard to find a suitable building?

[Mims Davies]

Diolch yn fawr to the team in Ynys Môn! We have been searching for a building for a number of years to go to the added youth offer, and I would be delighted to join my hon. Friend in Ynys Môn and to thank the team.

[Mr Speaker]

I call Jim Shannon.

Buckland Review of Autism Employment

Mims Davies Excerpts

Thursday 25th April 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Mims Davies)]

I thank my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for South Swindon (Sir Robert Buckland) for introducing this important debate on autism employment. It is a pleasure to follow the Lesbian Visibility Week debate. I had the pleasure of hearing Dame Kelly Holmes talk about how it had changed her life at an Inspiring Leadership Awards this week. Let me take the opportunity to put on record our covenant that covers disadvantaged girls and vulnerable young women.

I thank the hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows) for mentioning Dame Cheryl Gillan. I pay tribute to her passion and commitment in championing autism and its opportunities, and understanding of the individual, which is so important. My right hon. and learned Friend the Member for South Swindon also does that so well. I firmly believe that autism should not be a barrier to starting, staying or succeeding in employment. I know that all Members present and those watching share that vision. Although not every autistic person can work, given the right long-term support—not just to get into work, but to progress in work—the vast majority could. One in 70 people is autistic, which is about a million people across the UK. Giving more autistic people the chance to get into work is incredibly good for them, as we heard from my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for South Swindon today.

There is a huge opportunity to tackle economic inactivity. The talent range and myriad potential must be realised, and I will do my utmost today to give an update on many of the questions raised and what comes next. We know it is good for employers, in building that diverse workforce, to work with more diverse customers. In my role, in answer to the hon. Member for Wallasey (Dame Angela Eagle), it is about proper inclusion and action, and turning warm words—not just from me, but from employers and sectors—into action. I can promise her that there has been no railroading on what my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for South Swindon should include in his review. I will come on to the next steps, and there will also be a further update on the disability action plan in July. Hopefully we are starting off well in answering questions.

In 2017 the Government set a goal to see a million more disabled people in employment by 2027. I am proud to say that in the first quarter of 2022 the number of disabled people in employment had increased by 1.3 million, meaning that the goal had been met within five years. In the first quarter of 2023 disability employment had risen by 1.6 million in total since the goal was announced. I am aware that progress has been good but not even. I feel this week I am under scrutiny again from the Chair of the Select Committee, the right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms). I am focused on this next goal and how we review and shape what is next. Members should watch this space.

It is sad but true, as we have heard today, that currently only three in 10 working-age autistic people are in employment, even though we know that the majority of autistic people would like to be in work. Indeed, their families would love to see them progressing. My right hon. and learned Friend the Member for South Swindon says the dial needs to be moved on autism and neuro- diversity more widely, and we do need to move that dial. The design we are working on for universal support and engagement with the Department for Education, whether that is supportive internships or broader apprenticeships, has to work for young people and the people in our communities. Seven in 10 working-age autistic people being unable to access independence and the sense of fulfilment that employment can bring is far too many.

[Sir Stephen Timms]

As the Minister heard, the right hon. and learned Gentleman suggested a few minutes ago that there should be a target for raising the level of employment among autistic people at least up to the wider disability employment rate. Will she consider adopting that target?

[Mims Davies]

I am absolutely looking at the right way forward, because for me, if someone acquires a disability, we need to be looking at how they are retained in work and whether they have a particular impairment or need. I am looking at that in the round. As part of the Disability Confident challenges, the new guidance for leadership, working with the CIPD, is important. We need to be talent confident. Many employers want to employ more inclusively. They just struggle with how to do it and so regress to the same old recruitment.

[Marion Fellows]

There is also an autism friendly employer award, which we should be looking at. I am proud to say that I have that—I am one of the few parliamentarians who do. It is worth raising that too.

[Mims Davies]

I thank the hon. Lady for raising that important point for all of us. My hon. Friend the Member for Cities of London and Westminster (Nickie Aiken) mentioned the Fair Shot café in Covent Garden. I think we will all be popping down for coffee and banana cake. My predecessor enjoyed his visit there, and I am looking forward to seeing more work like that, because these things are incredibly important.

The Chair of the Select Committee, the right hon. Member for East Ham, talked about job carving, and I call it job design. It is about working with employers, looking at the roles they have, interviewing in the way that suits people and giving long-term support. I totally agree with all the charities that talk about jobcentres always having that individualised approach. I promise the hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw and all those watching that it is about the right role for the right person in front of us at DWP, so that we can actively change people’s lives. That is what we are in the business of doing; it is not just warm words.

The point on self-employment that my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for South Swindon mentioned links to the Lilac review and active, positive choices for disabled people. We recognise talent, ability and entrepreneurship. There is a positive choice there, and access to cash is important.

I will turn to my right hon. and learned Friend’s point on autistic people and the recruitment process. I thank Helen Tomlinson, the Government’s menopause champion, who is also the head of talent at the Adecco Group. Thanks to her support, my officials are working with Adecco and the Recruitment and Employment Confederation to develop new methods for recruitment that work effectively for both autistic and neurotypical applicants, ensuring that employers are more able to secure the talent they need to thrive. The Government are determined to provide the right support. I also note and agree with the point about career progression for autistic people.

Access to Work continues to provide grants for extra costs, and those adjustment passports are key. We are focusing on new employment. I recognise that there have been delays, and that is partly because more people know and understand the value of Access to Work. We are continuing to develop a universal support scheme. I recognise the point that the right hon. Member for East Ham has made, and I hope I have reassured him about the design on that. I cannot cover all the wide-ranging points he made in this debate, but I am happy to write to him on those.

On the challenge of being ambitious and on what comes next, and in terms of what we are looking to achieve, I can announce that my officials will shortly be going out to the autism community to seek expressions of interest in joining the group, starting with the role of chair. It will be a transparent, inclusive process, and the selection panel will be entirely independent of Government. I fully expect that that is where outcomes and what comes next will be realised when it comes to the review’s ambitions.

To conclude, this report is a big and extremely welcome step forward. It has not only produced a plan to overcome barriers for autistic people, but shows a path that can be followed for other groups facing barriers to employment and those with other types of neurodiversity and learning. I thank my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for South Swindon once again.

[Sir Stephen Timms]

The review made the point about the reform of Disability Confident. Can the Minister give an update on that? Has the evaluation been completed? When will the changes be brought forward?

[Mims Davies]

There have been some changes, and I have mentioned some of the updates. There is more to come, which I think the right hon. Gentleman will be interested in and will welcome, if he can just bear with me. If I am not constantly in the Chamber being examined, I can get on with the bits that I want to bring forward to the House, if that makes sense to those watching. We are seeing some great progress and some best practice. Things always work best when there is real change in getting autistic people into employment. I agree with the hon. Member for Wallasey. I agree with the whole reason for the report, and I thank James and the charity and all those who brought the report together. We need to deliver for autistic people. This is just the start, and may we long continue to deliver on that ambition.

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dame Rosie Winterton)]

I call Sir Robert Buckland to wind up.

Carer’s Allowance

Mims Davies Excerpts

Monday 22nd April 2024 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Mims Davies)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Cummins. It is a pleasure to respond to what has been a slightly protracted, wide-ranging e-petition debate. I thank the hon. Member for Neath (Christina Rees) for introducing it with a characteristically thoughtful and wide-ranging speech, and I welcome Alasdair’s raising the issue.

This debate is welcome. It comes at a challenging time for our carers looking after their loved ones: we are post-covid and we face cost of living pressures due to the invasion of Ukraine. It is a challenging time for all of us, but most particularly our carers. I want, like many, to begin by paying tribute to the millions of unpaid carers across this country. Very thoughtful and personal contributions have been made by hon. Members, and I duly note the queries and challenges they have raised. I have much to say in response.

First, I know that people are concerned that the Government do not recognise and value the contributions made by carers every day in providing this significant care and continuity of support to family and friends, including pensioners and those with disabilities, but it is really important to put on record that that is not my perception. That is not how I want people to see this Government. I will do my best to make that clear to those watching.

The 2021 census indicates that around 5 million people in England and Wales may be doing some unpaid care, with many of us taking on that role at some point in our lives. Like other hon. Members, I see much of the work that is done by carers in my postbag, at events in my constituency, at carer’s rights days, or through engaging with my constituents in Mid Sussex. None of us is immune to the challenges of caring. Colleagues will know that this is of particular interest to me as a former carer and as part of a caring family. I pay tribute to all who do this daily. It is a difficult job—one that is the best and the worst in the world, in some ways. You will always be grateful that you have been there. It is precious and hard going in equal measure and I pay tribute to all those doing that.

Carers are fortunate enough to have some wonderful advocates. We have seen that both in the contributions of MPs to this debate and in organisations such as Carers UK, Carers Trust and the Learning and Work Institute, to name but three. Some of those have been mentioned already. I meet Carers UK regularly, and will be doing so again shortly. I was delighted that my officials were able to meet recently with a wonderful delegation of inspirational young carers who were part of Young Carers Action Day in March.

I also pay tribute to the hundreds of DWP staff, largely based in the north-west, who provide financial support to a million unpaid carers through the carer’s allowance, day in and day out. I want to make sure that our approach is one of always being happy to look at to mistakes or other issues and of always treating each case on its merits.

It would be misleading the House if I was not completely clear that this is a policy area that I have been hugely interested in, both as a Back Bencher through the work of the all-party parliamentary group and now as a Minister. I have been acutely interested in these matters, and I can be clear with the House that, since coming to this role, this is a matter that I have been examining. I genuinely welcome this debate.

I want to support those unpaid carers to do some of the paid work that they love, want to do and continue to do, something that they can balance alongside their commitments to their loved ones—the people who they are looking after. We have of course legislated to ensure that employees will be entitled to five days of unpaid care leave per year and will be supported through more flexible working in the workplace. I encourage employers listening to consider job design, have supportive conversations and be part of acknowledging this invaluable role. This is a community, employee and Government partnership.

[Ed Davey]

When the Minister talks about legislating for five days’ leave for carers, will she mention my hon. Friend the Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain), who piloted that legislation with cross-party support?

[Mims Davies]

Yes, indeed. I was supportive of that myself, attending where possible to support that legislation going through. The Government absolutely welcome the cross-party work the hon. Member for North East Fife (Wendy Chamberlain) did piloting that, and congratulations to her.

On the specific subject of the debate, we are spending record amounts to support unpaid carers. Real-terms expenditure for carer’s allowance is forecast to be £4.1 billion in 2024-25 and by 2028-29 the Government are forecast to spend over £4.5 billion a year on carer’s allowance. We spend another £685 million to support carers receiving universal credit through the carer element.

As mentioned today, patterns of care have changed significantly over the past decade. People are providing vital unpaid care to relatives and friends in a whole range of circumstances that work for all concerned, but I also recognise that none of this is easy. Nearly one million people now receive carer’s allowance, and the weekly rate increased this month to £81.90. That means that since 2010 it has increased from £53.90 to £81.90 a week, providing an additional £1,500 a year to carers through the carer’s allowance compared with 2010. Of course, there are additional amounts for carers in universal credit and other ways forward, and it is important that those watching and those who maybe have not had this conversation are aware of those and come forward to get the support they need. That also can be through the household support fund. We know that unexpected outgoings happen, and people should reach out through their local authority and through Barnett consequentials. I know that that has been an important support mechanism for carers.

The crux of the petition we have been debating is that we should turn carer’s allowance into a carer’s wage. It is important to emphasise that the carer’s allowance is not intended to be a replacement for a wage or a payment for services of caring, hence some of the issues rightly raised today. It is therefore not directly comparable to either the national minimum wage or the national living wage. The principal purpose of the carer’s allowance as it stands, and under successive Governments since 1976, is to provide a measure of financial support and recognition for people who are not able to work full time because of their caring responsibilities. I reiterate that I welcome the debate and the opportunity to review and understand these issues. Successive Governments have supported carers through allowances and benefits, as well as wider cross-Government actions, rather than paying people directly for the tasks they undertake in the way that an employer would.

[Barbara Keeley]

I want to raise something that has not been raised in the debate and ask the Minister a question. She refuted the point that the Government do not recognise the contribution of carers, but many carers believe that the Government should have, and are missing, a national carers strategy. Such a strategy was launched by the Labour Government, with the backing of our former Prime Ministers, and was ditched by the coalition Government after 2010. Much of what we have covered is about a range of issues that would be better solved with a cross-party ministerial commitment, going up to prime ministerial level, on a national carers strategy. An excellent campaigner, Katy Styles, who has been mentioned in this debate, runs the We Care Campaign for that very thing. It is a real black hole in the Government’s support for carers that there is no national carers strategy. Will the Minister address that?

[Mims Davies]

I thank the hon. Lady for making that point. The right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms) took us back nearly two decades to 2008, the year that he was Minister of State in the Department holding the welfare reform portfolio. This is not new; this is challenging. The hon. Lady makes an important point, to which I will try to reply in my wider remarks. When we discuss this issue at the Select Committee, I am keen to get to the crux of all the challenges, but that is too wide a subject for this debate.

The hon. Member for Lewisham, Deptford (Vicky Foxcroft) talked about benefit delays and the challenge of the long-standing principle that the carer’s allowance can being awarded only once a decision has been made to trigger a disability benefit to the person being cared for. Carer’s allowance can be backdated, however, to the date from which the disability is payable. I believe about 100,000 people are on PIP and the carer’s allowance. I hope that goes some way to answering her questions.

The hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows), with her characteristic approach, raised the work being done in Scotland. We will look fully and with interest at the evaluation of the changes that the Scottish Government make. At the DWP, we are supporting those changes, so we will engage on them. That also goes to the earlier point about looking and learning, which is exactly what we should do.

Many hon. Members spoke about young adult carers and the impact of study. We are engaging with the Department for Education and the cross-Government working group is meeting again soon. It is important that carers maintain links with the education system, so that they can receive part-time education and a carer’s allowance. We rightly recognise the aspirations of young carers to not only complete their studies and build a successful career, but be there for their loved one.

That is true not just for young carers: we need to ensure that carers understand that, while caring, they have developed amazing skills that an employer will find invaluable, such as managing finances, the resilience that has been spoken about today, dealing with crisis, organisation and planning, and that level of interpersonal skills. We need to ensure that our young people in particular get the financial support that they need while studying, so they can rightly progress into the career that they want.

On the latest data on overpayments, our most recent statistics are that carer’s allowance overpayments relating to earnings and employment represent about 2.1% of our £3.3 billion of carer’s allowance expenditure, which is approximately £70 million. I welcome the opportunity to discuss that further with the Select Committee later this week.

[Sir Stephen Timms]

Will the Minister respond specifically to my point about the Government’s response to the Select Committee report five years ago? Paragraph 20 says:

“The VEP Service receives the same information Universal Credit…receives from HMRC…A notification is automatically received by VEP when the weekly net pay exceeds the CA”—

carer’s allowance—

“earnings limit…The VEP Service then applies a series of…rules…to determine if a VEP Alert should be sent on to the CA Unit to action.”

It is puzzling that the Department knows when that is being overpaid, but seems not to be doing anything. Why is that?

[Mims Davies]

I was just coming on to overpayments and what has been in the press. I am not the Minister leading on the fraud side of the policy, but we will discuss that on Wednesday. I am keenly looking at it in the round and working with the right hon. Gentleman. There is a lot of interest, but there is always more to matters and more to discuss, although we should refrain from discussing individual cases.

[Debbie Abrahams]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mims Davies]

I will try to answer the point of the right hon. Member for East Ham. There is a need to balance the duty to recover overpayments with safeguards to manage repayments suitably. Claimants have a responsibility to ensure that they are entitled to benefits and to inform us about changes. We have improved customer communications to remind them of the importance of telling us about any earnings, including through the annual uprating letter.

The hon. Member for Lewisham, Deptford mentioned doing a couple of extra hours here and there. Where it can be balanced out using the process that the right hon. Member for East Ham mentioned, and where we can show a pattern, of course we will always respond to that. The right hon. Gentleman is talking about getting upstream of that, but the issue is the expenses that can be incurred; I am sure we will get into the weeds of that on Wednesday. He is right to say that there is a way of understanding that people may be in that situation, but there may be expenses too. I hope that gives him a partial answer.

[Debbie Abrahams]

Could the Minister respond to my query about medical advisers to first-tier tribunals, and the statements that are included in their bundles?

[Mims Davies]

I will take that point away. I am keen to explain more about the National Audit Office and the wider reports on Wednesday; it is quite complicated for this particular arena.

The hon. Member for Cynon Valley (Beth Winter) made a point about the overlap of the carer’s allowance and the state pension—they are both paid as an income replacement benefit. The carer’s allowance replaces an income where the carer is not able to work full time due to their caring responsibilities, while the state pension replaces income in retirement. For that reason, they cannot be paid together to avoid duplicating the provision for the same need. However, if a carer’s state pension is less than the carer’s allowance, the state pension is paid and topped up with the carer’s allowance to the basic weekly rate.

Where a carer’s allowance cannot be paid, the person will keep an underlying entitlement to the benefit. That gives access to an additional amount for carers in pension credit of £45.60 a week, which is just under £2,400 a year. Around 100,000 carers receive that as part of their pension credit award. It is paid to recognise the additional contribution and the associated responsibilities, and means that lower-income pensioners with caring responsibilities can receive more than the lower-income receipts of pension credit. If a pensioner’s income is above the limit for pension credit, they may still be entitled to housing benefit. I would point them to the household support fund and the DWP’s help to claim service.

The right hon. Member for Kingston and Surbiton (Ed Davey) raised a point about young carers. It is challenging to meet the objectives in this wide-ranging area, particularly for young carers and, as we have discussed, there are many objectives that we are trying to meet in different and individual circumstances. The hon. Member for Cynon Valley also mentioned the support from wonderful organisations such as Carers UK, and indeed our constituency offices, to help people to claim. There is now an easy-to-use online claims service for carer’s allowance. Some 90% of people claim that way, and nine out of 10 people are happy with the claims service.

The hon. Member for Wirral West (Margaret Greenwood) spoke about earnings limits. I appreciate that carers are busy and there is a lot going on, but they are told about the earnings limit when they claim. They also get an annual uprating letter reminding them of any changes, and we use a text reminder. I would always ask carers to engage with us if there are any changes in circumstances. We have supported hundreds of thousands of unpaid carers receiving means-tested benefits through the cost of living support, as well as through support for their fuel bills. As I have said, it has been a difficult time.

The hon. Member for Neath rightly raised the 35-hour care threshold and asked how that was decided on. It dates back to 1976, when the carer’s allowance was introduced. At the time, 35 hours was the length of the average working week, and the view was that someone who was caring for 35 hours therefore could not be working full time. That was the basis on which the carer’s allowance support was introduced. She also rightly raised the delivery of carer’s assessments. I will ensure that Ministers in the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities are aware of her concerns.

The carers strategy was mentioned. The Government rightly support unpaid carers, and some of that was covered in the social care plan, “People at the Heart of Care”. Hopefully, I have spelt out today that there is a lot to look at.

The Chair of the Work and Pensions Committee, the right hon. Member for East Ham, mentioned the research. I have been looking specifically at that research, as well as the wider policy, in preparation for this debate. We are carefully considering the right time to publish that. I found it extremely helpful and enlightening; it is genuinely helping policy thought and development.

Before I close—I am certain I am over my time—I remind Members that for many carers doing work who receive universal credit, the 55% taper rate and any applicable work allowance will help ensure that people are better off in work. Ninety per cent of those receiving the UC carer element who are declaring earnings have a work allowance. Those with a disability or, indeed, a child might be in that situation.

I note the Opposition’s commitment to the reform of carer’s allowance. It is the first time that I had seen that, so it is pretty recent. Prior to that, there had been a focus around earnings rules. I will look at what others are promising, because as I said, some of this dates back to 1976, and some of it back more than 20 years. We have spoken about a mixed and challenging picture.

[Vicky Foxcroft]

I am really glad that the Minister has been re-promoted, which we forgot to mention. I am happy to send her all the stuff that the Opposition are looking to do. Of course, we are more than happy if the Conservatives want to pinch some more of our policies in the future.

[Mims Davies]

That was characteristically put; I thank the hon. Lady very much. The Work and Pensions Committee Chair made the point about having an open mind about this policy, and hopefully I have shown today that I very much have an open mind.

The Government appreciate that society relies on unpaid carers. It is the most challenging, fulfilling and difficult job, and we recognise the challenges that they face. We are helping carers to stay in paid work, but there is more to do, as I have spelt out. The opportunity to work with employers in a flexible labour market is appealing, and there is more to build on. We are spending record amounts on carer’s allowance and providing unpaid carers with the help and support they need and deserve. If they are not getting that, please do come and talk to us—our team are there to support them. We will keep carer’s allowance under review, as we do all benefits.

Disability Benefits

Mims Davies Excerpts

Tuesday 26th March 2024 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Mims Davies)]

I am grateful for the opportunity to close the debate, and it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mrs Latham. I thank all hon. Members for their invaluable and insightful contributions this afternoon, and in particular the hon. Member for Slough (Mr Dhesi) for bringing this timely debate to the Chamber.

Collaboration remains vital as we address the critical matters that we have discussed today, essential for supporting many in our communities. I appreciate that people are passionate, but the perception of a punitive, divisive culture, and the rhetoric used this afternoon, does not reflect an approach that I or my hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon (Justin Tomlinson) have ever taken or would ever take in our time and commitment doing this job. I want anybody watching this debate this afternoon to feel reassured that whether they come to us through a complaints procedure, or into an MPs’ surgery, or work with one of the charities in this area, they will get the support they need. We at the DWP, as much as anyone else, strive to give the most vulnerable the right support. We have the right policies and the right system in place so that we can be fair to those in need and be fair to the taxpayer, but always listen to disabled people’s voices. I have absolutely been striving to do that in the full-time role that I hold. I am not going to disagree that I have not looked at housing and youth alongside that, but many of the transitions and challenges apply to disabled people as well.

I am very happy to meet the gentleman from the ME community who the right hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) says needs to meet me. I am also keen to look at Monika’s case, at the case raised by the hon. Member for Ceredigion (Ben Lake), and at other cases that have been raised this afternoon. I say to hon. Members, “Please share these cases with me. It’s no good you only having them in your constituency. It’s really important that we look at them and learn from them at the DWP, so we can get beyond the perception and the feeling that people have.”

I am determined to ensure that I work with disabled people and listen to them speaking about their everyday lives. I was recently in Hastings to discuss our new trauma-informed approach. I will be at the new health model office in Gosport on Thursday to make sure that compassion, empathy and understanding are at the heart of what we do.

[Vicky Foxcroft]

I am grateful that the Minister has offered us all the chance to share our cases with her, but I hope she realises how many there are. Some of us have raised one or two cases today, but I have literally hundreds and hundreds of examples of things going wrong.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mims Davies]

I am very happy to look at specific cases. Only recently, I met one of hon. Lady’s colleagues, with members of the blind community and people with a visual impairment, to discuss how we can learn directly from their experiences. My hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon made exactly that point.

I have a speech to make, but first I want to respond to some points that Members have raised. On vulnerable people and vulnerable groups who need specific support, will they please look at this morning’s Work and Pensions Committee sitting, at which the Lords Minister and I covered the topic of safeguarding? We have a vulnerable claimant champion; safeguarding concerns are rightly referred to social services.

I am happy to write to my hon. Friend the Member for North Swindon on the point about end of life. The point that he made about appointees was covered this morning, in recognition of the work that we need to do to ensure that people have the suitable voice that they need and that there is progress in this area. As we speak, we are growing our visiting officers team to 700 to go out and support people in the way that my hon. Friend described, and we are making sure that we go to the people we need to hear from. On the mandatory reconsideration trial, it is too early for definitive results, but there was a very pertinent reminder for me to be dialled into it.

The Chair of the Select Committee, the right hon. Member for East Ham (Sir Stephen Timms), asked about audio recording. We have taken an opt-in approach, but I am happy to go away and look at the specific point that he raised.

[Jim Shannon]

The Minister talks about compassion. The medical evidence that has been presented is very clear in what it says. May I ask respectfully whether the staff looking at these matters are trained to understand the medical evidence?

[Mims Davies]

We have a new chief medical adviser and 4,000 clinicians in this area, with a statutory duty and an understanding that is very much among the learnings that we have gained. I hope that that reassures the hon. Gentleman, but if there is more to say, I will write to him. Questions have been raised about how the evidence is looked at and how it works; I am asking those questions myself, individually, and am happy to continue to do so.

[Sir Stephen Timms]

I am grateful to the Minister for picking up my point about default recording and for her offer to look into it. When she does so, will she bear it in mind that all the companies that provide these assessments favour default recordings?

[Mims Davies]

The right hon. Gentleman makes a good point. The companies want to get it right and they are keen to do what is right. I am very happy to look at that, feed back to him my thoughts and pick that issue up in the Department under my tenure.

Of course we aim to make the right decision as early as possible. We recognise that the numbers are high. By the very nature of things, anybody who comes to an MP’s constituency surgery has invariably had a very poor experience; they would not come to us otherwise. That is why I want to take away the particular cases that have been raised today. However, those cases must be seen in the context of overall decisions—

[Mr Dhesi]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mims Davies]

I will give way to the hon. Gentleman shortly.

With PIP, there were three million decisions from October 2018 to September 2023; 8% were appealed, with 5% cleared at tribunal and 3% overturned. However, I appreciate that the hon. Member for Slough made the point, of which I am very mindful, that none of these statistics are just statistics; they are individual people with individual needs, and we should be very mindful of that.

[Mr Dhesi]

I thank the Minister for giving way. Given the time, I would like an answer to one of my various questions. The Government announced extra funding in the Budget for processing disability claims. Can she clarify exactly how that will be used to reduce the huge delays?

[Mims Davies]

Yes—I am keen to try to come on to that. There were many questions this afternoon and I am trying to get through as many of them as I can.

The chance to work guarantee was mentioned, which will effectively remove the work capability assessment for most claimants; they are already assessed without work-related requirements. That will remove the fear of reassessment and give the group the confidence to try work within the existing permitted work rules in employment support allowance and work allowance rules in universal credit. I am absolutely delighted about what we have done around disability employment. I am keen to do and say more around it, which should feed in again to the process of trying to allay some of the concerns that have been expressed this afternoon.

The proportion of those people in receipt of PIP with a mental health condition who are getting top rates is actually six times higher compared with DLA—PIP is at 41% and DLA is at 7%. I will just point out that customer satisfaction for PIP customers was 77%, with different scores according to different providers; again, I will go away and have a look at that. People being treated with dignity and satisfaction with how they are treated is extremely important to me. Indeed, this morning I raised the issue of disability services complaints. The number has decreased from 2,690 in 2021-22 to 2,330 in 2022-23. I am very mindful again that all of this is about individual experience.

Let me quickly try to canter through a couple of other questions before I close. The hon. Member for Slough talked about PIP clearance times. We have increased the number of case managers—health professional assessment providers—to deal with the increased demand and we have addressed the blend of phone, video and face-to-face meetings, to ensure that it is more centred on service users and is suitable. We have also empowered case managers, where they have robust evidence, to make decisions on award reviews, without referral to an assessment provider, so that decisions are quicker and we can avoid claims going out of payment. I am very much looking at that myself, and the end-to-end claim process for new claims has been reduced from 26 weeks in August 2021 to a current wait of 15 weeks. We are in a better position than we were before the pandemic. That is an achievement that I am proud of. Is there more to do? Absolutely, yes, but again I want those who are watching or listening to this debate to see that this is a big focus.

We are fully committed to delivering on the issues that matter to the British people. This is delivering for disabled people. It is an absolute mission for me in this role to make sure that the most vulnerable members of our society lead decent, fulfilling lives and I will use my time in this role to make sure that I can make the changes that everybody would wish to see.

[Mrs Pauline Latham (in the Chair)]

The question is, That this House has considered personal independence payment and other disability benefits.

Oral Answers to Questions

Mims Davies Excerpts

Monday 18th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[Margaret Greenwood (Wirral West) (Lab)]

5. What assessment he has made of the effectiveness of his Department's support for vulnerable people who claim social security benefits.

[The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Mims Davies)]

[In British Sign Language: “Happy Sign Language Week everybody.”] It is a key priority for the Department for Work and Pensions to provide effective support for our vulnerable customers. We provide training on how to support customers’ mental health, and we have a six-point plan for supporting claimants who may be at risk of suicide or self-harm. The DWP regularly reviews processes to make improvements through colleague and customer feedback, and through the work of the serious case panel.

[Margaret Greenwood]

The Government estimated that 3% of households on legacy benefits would fail to move to universal credit under managed migration. However, by last December, 21% had not managed to do so and, as a result, had their benefits stopped. This is a matter of real concern. The DWP will now ask more vulnerable people who are wholly reliant on benefits to transfer. What will the Government do to ensure that those vulnerable people do not fall out of the social security system?

[Mims Davies]

I thank the hon. Lady for her point about vulnerable customers who have come into our curtilage and purview. The Minister for Employment has reminded me that we will take this very slowly, and will engage with and support customers. Customers can speak to help to claim advisers at Citizens Advice, and we will ensure that we listen to them.

[Justin Tomlinson (North Swindon) (Con)]

In addition to the financial support provided to personal independence payment claimants, what progress is being made to refer claimants proactively to the widest support available in their community?

[Mims Davies]

I thank my hon. Friend for highlighting this point. There is the household support fund, help to claim, and opportunities to pop into the local library to get additional support, for example. There is also an extra £500 million out there on top of the £1 billion through to the end of this month. I would say to anybody: “The benefits calculator is out there, and do talk to the CAB and your local council”—perhaps in Swindon.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

Today the Government are in Geneva defending their policies to the UN committee that is investigating the UK for breaches of the convention on the rights of persons with disabilities, including article 28 on the right of disabled people to social protection. Given that drastically cutting disabled people’s social security support between 2012 and 2019 and austerity were found to be responsible for 148,000 avoidable deaths, how will the new wave of austerity announced in the Budget affect the health and wellbeing of disabled people?

[Mims Davies]

I am pleased to have this opportunity to make it clear to the House that the Government are committed to the UN convention on the rights of persons with disabilities and we look forward to outlining the UK’s progress on advancing the rights of disabled people across this country. Our national disability strategy and the disability action plan are delivering tangible progress. This includes ensuring that disabled customers can use the services they are entitled to, as we have spelled out today. Disabled people’s needs are better reflected in planning for emergencies as well. We are making sure that this country is the most accessible and, importantly, equal place to live in the world.

[Dean Russell (Watford) (Con)]

I truly welcome and am personally grateful for my hon. Friend’s support for my campaign for parity between mental and physical health in the workplace, and for the recent publication of the national suicide prevention strategy, which referenced two of the points I have been campaigning on. I understand acutely that the Health and Safety Executive has worked hard on updating first aid guidance, and I would be grateful if the Minister could please update the House on this.

[Mims Davies]

The DWP is also proudly committed to becoming a more trauma-informed organisation, and we will be world-leading on that. I was pleased to see that in Hastings. The HSE continues to work with us, as does the Department of Health and Social Care, to support the suicide prevention strategy for England. I can confirm that the first phase of mental health guidance on the HSE website has been revised to include text that emphasises the importance of, and the need to consider, parity of risks to either mental or physical health.

[David Duguid (Banff and Buchan) (Con)]

6. What steps he is taking to help fill job vacancies in Banff and Buchan constituency.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jane Hunt (Loughborough) (Con)]

12. What steps he is taking to tackle non-payment of housing benefit to district councils when the beneficiary is not a registered social landlord.

[The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Mims Davies)]

The Supported Housing (Regulatory Oversight) Act 2023 brings reforms to the supported housing sector to improve quality and value for money. Any changes to funding models would need to be considered in the context of those broader reforms, but we keep the subsidy policy under review.

[Jane Hunt]

Charnwood Borough Council currently contributes £1.5 million a year to subsidise the supported housing benefit payment to local charities, which are unable to become registered social landlords. The charities provide excellent support and accommodation to those suffering from addiction, or ex-offenders undergoing rehabilitation. However, the cost to the council is unsustainable. Please will my hon. Friend look at funding those services, as the Department for Work and Pensions currently does for similar organisations that are registered social landlords?

[Mims Davies]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising this issue. The challenging fiscal environment means that we need to prioritise resources and ensure that support is targeted effectively to maximise impact for citizens. I chair a cross-Government group with the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities on quality issues and other matters, such as subsidy loss, which she raises. We will continue to review and monitor the concerns that she and other local authorities have raised. However, I point to the local housing allowance uplift, which is a central focus for me.

[Alistair Strathern (Mid Bedfordshire) (Lab)]

13. What recent estimate he has made of the average time it takes for claimants to complete medical assessments for personal independence payment claims.

[The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Mims Davies)]

We treat all claimants individually, recognising the differing needs of health conditions and disabilities, and the impact on claimants’ daily lives. The length of time for an assessment is not included in the contract between the DWP and providers, but I can confirm that the average time for 2023 was 63 minutes.

[Alistair Strathern]

I was heartbroken to hear the experience of a constituent who had to go through an enhanced medical assessment for PIP. A bowel cancer survivor with severe arthritis, she was made to stay on a phone call for over three hours to be assessed. That meant that, due to her needs, she had to suffer the indignity of soiling herself just to complete the assessment. How on earth can that be okay? I would like to understand what steps are being taken to reduce the times of these assessments and to hear what can be done to ensure they are finally undertaken with basic human compassion.

[Mims Davies]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising a distressing case. The DWP is committed to assessing people as quickly as possible. I am happy to look into that particular situation to see why, in this case, the support the claimant was entitled to did not come promptly. Prioritising the reduction of processing times to maximise the number of assessments completed without affecting quality is key, but I am very happy to take that case away.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Vicky Foxcroft (Lewisham, Deptford) (Lab)]

The Department for Work and Pensions has a staggering 288,000 outstanding PIP claims. The average clearance time is currently 15 weeks. People are waiting almost four months for a decision, which can have a significant impact on physical and mental health. What is the Minister doing to improve clearance times, so that people are not left in limbo, worrying about whether they can afford the extra costs associated with their disability or long-term health condition? The Government urgently need to get a grip.

[Mims Davies]

Claimants’ satisfaction has remained above the service level of 90% or higher as of the three-month average that began in September 2016. The end- to-end clearance time from registration to a decision being made is currently 15 weeks, which has been reduced from 26 weeks in August 2021. [Interruption.] The hon. Lady asked very gently what we are doing. We have multi-channel assessments and I am engaging regularly with my officials twice a month to ensure that we are assessing the queues and the delays and, as I said at the start of this question, that we are treating everybody individually and in a tailored and suitable way.

[Stuart C. McDonald (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East) (SNP)]

15. What steps his Department is taking to help reduce the number of children in poverty.

--- Later in debate ---

[Henry Smith (Crawley) (Con)]

T2. I extend my gratitude to the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work for recently holding a menopause roundtable that was particularly focused on employment in tourism and hospitality, and to Gatwick airport for hosting it. What steps will the menopause employment champion take next?

[The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Mims Davies)]

I am delighted about the regional roundtables, including in the leisure and hospitality sector, oil and gas, and education, among others. They are informing the sector work of the menopause employment champion, and her one-year report is now available, showcasing a variety of stakeholders’ perspectives, and outcomes for women who need support.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the SNP spokesperson.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Lisa Cameron (East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow) (Con)]

T3. As chair of the all-party parliamentary group for disability, I thank the Minister for recognising Sign Language Week in the Chamber. It is so important for disability inclusion in the workplace. Will she recommend that hon. Members from across the House meet representatives of the British Deaf Association, who are now welcoming people in Dining Room A at an event I am co-sponsoring?

[Mims Davies]

I am delighted to welcome Sign Language Week, which is marking its 21st anniversary of recognising British Sign Language as a language in its own right. I encourage Members to join the British Deaf Association reception after these questions have ended.

[Dan Carden (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab)]

T8. The Government will move thousands of my constituents across to universal credit over the next year. They will be forced to wait five weeks for their first payment or up to nine weeks if they receive child or working tax credits. According to DWP data, 60% of the people across Merseyside who are in that situation will take out an advance loan. Does the Minister think it right that my constituents, who are among the most deprived in the country, should be pushed into debt or face weeks without the bare minimum that they need to afford the essentials?

Inclusive PPE

Mims Davies Excerpts

Tuesday 12th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Mims Davies)]

May I start by congratulating the hon. Lady on securing such an important and interesting Adjournment debate? I would like to stress from the outset that the Government entirely support her assertion that personal protective equipment issued to workers should be inclusive and, of course, meet individual needs. The Government recognise that when we refer to “inclusive” in this context, it is not just a matter of gender, because the requirement covers disabilities, race and religion, which really emphasises the personal in PPE.

I understand the hon. Lady’s point about providers waking up to the anatomy of women, and I fully agree. The availability of Mary Earps’s World cup jersey was probably a bit too late for the hon. Lady’s liking, mine and many others’ as well.

I congratulate Katy Robinson on her work with women in construction. In my time looking after the Health and Safety Executive, it has been a delight to hear women’s voices, and Katy is obviously a leading light.

It is the legal duty of employers to protect their workers from risks to their health and safety, and they must consider ways in which they can remove or reduce risk by any other means before PPE is provided. PPE includes high-visibility clothing, safety helmets, gloves, footwear and hearing protection. It should be regarded as the last resort to protect against risks to health and safety, but a rounded approach must be taken. For many workers, PPE is issued by employers to ensure that they are protected against risks that cannot otherwise be controlled, as I have outlined. PPE may be needed to reduce the risk of ill health and injury from hazards, such as breathing in dust or fumes, being splashed with corrosive liquids that may damage eyes or skin, and excessive noise, which may affect hearing and create hearing loss.

I turn to a couple of points made by the hon. Lady, and I will try to reassure her. I understand that the relevant trade association, the British Safety Industry Federation, is initiating a project with the British Standards Institution to look at whether industry standards can be better framed to ensure that inclusive PPE is better designed. Manufacturers make up a significant proportion of those who sit on the relevant British standards technical committees for products of this type and, rightly, they are capable of influencing the range of what can be supplied.

The hon. Lady talked about the Equality Act and set out a number of protected characteristics that prevent workers from being discriminated against in the regulations. The protected characteristics cover age, disability, gender reassignment, marriage and civil partnership, pregnancy, maternity, race, religion or belief, and sex and sexual orientation.

On the HSE’s comprehensive guidance, I note the hon. Lady’s ask for statutory guidance, and I am sure that it will be listening to her queries. I am sure that if there is anything I cannot cover in the debate, we will be writing to her about it. The HSE guidance already clarifies the position relating to workers with protected characteristics and states that PPE provided must take this into account. There is no exemption from the regulations for disabled people, and suitable PPE must be worn and provided if the risk assessment indicates that it is required. I hope that that reassures the House.

It is the responsibility of the employer to ensure that suitable personal protective equipment is provided to workers who may be exposed to a risk to their health and safety, to increase the likelihood of acceptance of and happiness with that equipment. As the hon. Lady pointed, out ill-fitting boots present trip hazards and overalls with sleeves or cuffs that are too long increase the risk of entrapment in moving machinery, so it is important that PPE fits well. She mentioned the need for suitability to anatomy as well.

The design of PPE is regulated by UK regulation 2016/425 on personal protective equipment. Annex II of the regulation sets out the essential health and safety requirements that PPE must meet. This includes requirements that cover comfort and effectiveness. The hon. Lady also pointed out an issue with the lack of employer awareness when procuring items, rather than those items not being available, so tonight’s debate is a welcome opportunity for us to spell out what employers should be doing.

Let me turn to the existing requirements in the Personal Protective Equipment at Work Regulations 1992. Where PPE is necessary, the regulations already state that the ergonomic requirements and the health condition of the person wearing it must be taken into account. It is clearly important that the wearer of the PPE should always be involved in the process, to increase the likelihood of the acceptance and effectiveness of the equipment. For any employees listening, that is equally important for them to know. In this context, “suitable” means that it is appropriate for the risks involved and, more importantly, takes into account ergonomic requirements, the health conditions of the wearer, and the fact that it is capable of fitting the wearer correctly without further increasing the risk. Those regulations are there, and I reiterate that to the House this evening.

The Health and Safety Executive and local authorities are responsible for regulating and enforcing the provision of PPE at work. Those authorities will take robust action if they receive reports of employers who do not ensure that PPE that meets the requirements is issued to workers. They have also published a range of readily available guidance to assist employers to comply with their obligations. This highlights the fact that “one size fits all” is unacceptable. I bought my own protective boots for site visits so that I know they will fit correctly.

[Emma Hardy]

On that point, I can give the Minister a concrete example. I visit certain places with a member of my office staff who has size 3 feet, and she is unable to find any boots that fit her. That is a regular occurrence when we go on these visits. People assume that everyone has larger feet.

[Mims Davies]

The hon. Lady makes an excellent point. My feet are hardly the size of Kylie Minogue’s, sadly, but sometimes those boots are just too big, aren’t they?

The Equality Act 2010 sets out a number of protected characteristics, including gender, race, disability and religion. If a risk assessment undertaken by the employer indicates that it is necessary, PPE should be suitable and sufficient, and of course those protected characteristics must be taken into account. Those requirements under the regulations are enforceable. It is right to remind people that there is suitable guidance, both for industry and inspectors.

Taking a slight step back from the PPE issues, and turning to product safety and ensuring safety through design and manufacture, the Office for Product Safety and Standards is responsible for the legislative and standards framework that governs PPE, which is also regulated by regulation 2016/425. Annex II sets out the essential health and safety requirements that PPE must meet, which include comfort and effectiveness:

“PPE must be designed and manufactured in such a way as to facilitate its correct positioning on the user and to remain in place for the foreseeable period of use, bearing in mind ambient factors, the actions to be carried out and the postures to be adopted. For this purpose, it must be possible to adapt the PPE to fit the morphology of the user by all appropriate means, such as adequate adjustment and attachment systems or the provision of an adequate range of sizes.”

I am sure the hon. Lady is pointing to that this evening.

Supporting these regulations is a suite of technical standards. Manufacturers make up a significant proportion of the members of the technical committees for these products, and they have the ability to influence the range that is supplied in this way. Again, this debate is a timely reminder that these regulations do not mandate manufacturers to produce PPE for specific users. However, the Government support any initiative—we have heard about some tonight—that improves design to meet the needs of the full range of users.

I understand from the OPSS that gender-responsive standards have been raised by industry groups, and that the British Safety Industry Federation is initiating a project with the British Standards Institution to look at how those industry standards can be better framed to ensure that PPE in particular is designed better and more appealingly for women.

Although the development of standards can take years, the law is clear about what is required. PPE must be suitable for the task and for each individual. I took time to reflect on the issue in preparation for this debate, and I am aware of the significant steps that have recently been taken by manufacturers. It seems clear that they are working harder than ever to increase their understanding of their customers’ needs, which has partly driven an increase in the range available, but tonight proves the point.

I have been made aware of at least one article that suggests the perceived lack of available inclusive PPE is more about employers’ lack of awareness in procuring the right items than about items not being readily available. In addition, a recent article in New Civil Engineer highlighted the PPE campaign that is working to raise awareness and to address inequalities in PPE provision and design for minority groups. There is a focus on women, but it also covers wider minority groups. One success highlighted in the article, relating to PPE and inclusivity, was that after a procurement team was alerted to the fact that items were available, those items were subsequently included in the internal procurement catalogue. Again, the issue was about awareness.

Although I am touching on successes in recent work, there is clearly more to be done. That is what tonight’s debate is about and why the Health and Safety Executive has leant its support to the “Protection for Everyone” campaign launched by Safety and Health Practitioner. The campaign aims to raise awareness about the effect of ill-fitting PPE and contains stories from those who have faced challenges in getting suitable PPE. The Government wholeheartedly support this message and we look forward to seeing how it progresses

The debate has provided a welcome opportunity to explore PPE. As I said to the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull West and Hessle, if there are further points that are relevant, I will respond to her in writing. I hope this reassures hon. Members in the Chamber this evening, including the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) —we would expect nothing less—and others, that the legislation on PPE is appropriate. The Government are committed to raising awareness and, as some hon. Members mentioned, encouraging more manufacturers to provide PPE that is fully inclusive for their customers and their users.

Question put and agreed to.

Work and Pensions

Mims Davies Excerpts

Monday 19th February 2024 Ministerial Corrections

The following is an extract from the statement on the disability action plan on Monday 5 February 2024.

[Mims Davies]

I reiterate that the disability action plan is not just another consultation, but real, tangible action to change people’s daily lives, with 13 practical actions across 14 different areas.

[Official Report, 5 February 2024, Vol. 745, c. 40.]

Letter of correction from the Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work, the hon. Member for Mid Sussex (Mims Davies):

An error has been identified in the statement on the disability action plan.

The correct information should have been:

[Mims Davies]

I reiterate that the disability action plan is not just another consultation, but real, tangible action to change people’s daily lives, with 32 practical actions across 14 different areas.

Draft Mesothelioma Lump Sum Payments (Conditions and Amounts) (Amendment) Regulations 2024 Draft Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers’ Compensation) (Specified Diseases and Prescribed Occupations) (Amendment) Regulations 2024 Draft Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers’ Compensation) (Payment of Claims) (Amendment) Regulations 2024

Mims Davies Excerpts

Monday 19th February 2024 General Committees

[The Minister for Disabled People, Health and Work (Mims Davies)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Mesothelioma Lump Sum Payments (Conditions and Amounts) (Amendment) Regulations 2024.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to consider the draft Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers’ Compensation) (Specified Diseases and Prescribed Occupations) (Amendment) Regulations 2024 and the draft Pneumo-coniosis etc. (Workers’ Compensation) (Payment of Claims) (Amendment) Regulations 2024.

[Mims Davies]

It is a pleasure, Sir Edward, to serve under your chairmanship.

The schemes that we are debating provide critical support for the sufferers of dust-related diseases—often caused by exposure to asbestos and other harmful dust at work—who have no recourse to compensation through their employers. I am sure that hon. Members agree that today’s debate is a valuable opportunity to raise awareness of the schemes and the support for Department for Work and Pensions customers with those conditions more widely. The schemes form only part of a wider range of Government support available to sufferers of those diseases, including support with caring costs and for additional costs that arise due to their disability.

The Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers’ Compensation) Act 1979 scheme—for simplicity, I will refer to it as the 1979 Act scheme—provides for a single lump sum compensation payment to eligible sufferers of diseases covered by the scheme. That includes pneumoconiosis and diffuse mesothelioma. It was designed to cover people who are unable to claim damages from employers—because, for example, they have gone out of business—and who have not brought any action against any other party for damages.

To be eligible for a lump sum award, a claimant must be awarded industrial injuries disablement benefit, or IIDB, for a disease covered by the 1979 Act scheme. The diffuse mesothelioma scheme under the Child Maintenance and Other Payments Act 2008, which I will refer to differently as the 2008 Act scheme, was introduced to provide compensation to people diagnosed with diffuse mesothelioma who are unable to claim compensation under the 1979 Act. That might be because they were self-employed or because their exposure to asbestos was not due to their work. The 2008 Act scheme provides no-fault support to sufferers of diffuse mesothelioma quickly at their time of greatest need.

Both schemes aim to make compensation payments to sufferers of those illnesses within their lifetimes, wherever possible. Under both schemes, however, a claim can be made by a dependant, if the person with the disease sadly passes away before being able to make a claim. That is in recognition of the suffering that the diseases can bring to whole families.

The rates payable under the 1979 Act scheme are based on the sufferers’ assessed level of disablement and their age when they were assessed as suffering with the disease for the purpose of IIDB entitlement. IIDB provides a weekly payment for those who have had an industrial accident or developed diseases known to be related to specific types of work. All payments for diffuse mesothelioma under the 1979 Act scheme are automatically made at the 100% disablement rate—the highest rate of payment, reflecting the extremely serious nature of the disease. Payments made to diffuse mesothelioma sufferers under the 2008 Act scheme are determined using the same payment scale used for diffuse mesothelioma sufferers under the 1979 Act scheme.

Between April ’22 and March ’23, the latest financial year for which data is available, 2,860 awards were made across both schemes. That includes 2,460 awards made under the 1979 Act scheme and 400 under the 2008 Act scheme. Expenditure on those lump sum awards totalled just over £42 million in ’22-23. That demonstrates our continued commitment to supporting sufferers of these terrible diseases, and their families.

I will now provide more information on the purpose of the instruments that we are debating. The first two instruments seek to make the one-off awards paid under those lump sum schemes more generous. While there is no statutory requirement to increase the rates in line with prices each year, I am maintaining the position taken by my predecessors in increasing the value of lump sum awards by 6.7%, in line with the September ’23 consumer prices index.

The new amounts will be paid to those who satisfy all the conditions of entitlement for the first time from 1 April 2024. The increase is in line with the proposed increases to industrial injuries disablement benefit and other disability benefits as part of the main social security uprating provisions for ’24-25. Members will no doubt recognise the terrible impact that these diseases have on sufferers and their families. It is right that the value of the compensation payments should be retained, especially in these challenging times.

In addition to the uprating instruments, the Department has laid a third instrument for consideration today, which is a minor technical fix and will simply realign the diseases that may bring entitlement to a payment under the 1979 Act scheme with those that may bring entitlement to IIDB. That will ensure that the original policy intent of the 1979 Act is fully reflected in the legislation and, in doing so, widen the 1979 Act scheme entitlement to customers suffering from two additional dust-related conditions: asbestos-related primary carcinoma of the lung, where the sufferer does not also have asbestosis, and unilateral, or one-sided, diffuse pleural thickening. Crucially, no one will be made worse off as a result of this change.

As many hon. Members will be aware, the Department is advised by the Industrial Injuries Advisory Council, an independent scientific body, on changes to the list of prescribed diseases for which IIDB can be paid. When they were added to the 1979 Act, all diseases exactly mirrored those listed in the relevant IIDB legislation. However, over time, IIAC has recommended several changes to IIDB prescribed diseases that were also specified in the 1979 Act. Those changes were accepted by my Department. The unintended impact of accepting the recommendations was that people who suffer from one-sided diffuse pleural thickening and asbestos-related primary carcinoma of the lung, but not asbestosis, are now potentially eligible for IIDB but are not eligible for an award under the 1979 Act scheme. The divergence was first identified in September 2023, when officials were asked to provide clarification on entitlement for an individual case. Officials have worked at pace since September to bring forward the legislation before us.

The amendments will address the divergence by realigning diseases specified in the 1979 Act and the IIDB legislation and will apply to new claims made under the 1979 Act scheme. However, payments have been made historically to sufferers of the two diseases despite the divergence identified in the legislation. The Department understands that customers who have made claims for those two diseases historically have not missed out as a result of the change in the legislation not being made sooner.

As of 16 February, the Department was holding 94 claims made since September for which it has not been possible to establish entitlement under the current legislation, but where the criteria would be met under the proposed legislation. If the legislation is approved today, we will pay those customers in full as soon as possible. We estimate that the change will extend legislative entitlement to a 1979 Act scheme award to about 300 people a year with one-sided diffuse pleural thickening and asbestos-related primary carcinoma of the lung. The changes are the right thing to do and demonstrate the Government’s ongoing commitment to supporting sufferers of these terrible diseases. I am sure that all hon. Members here will join me in recognising the continued importance of the compensation offered by the two schemes.

Finally, I am required to confirm that each of the three provisions is compatible with the European convention on human rights; I am happy to confirm to the House that they are. I commend the measures to the Committee and ask for approval to implement them.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mims Davies]

I thank the shadow Minister. I agree that the work of the charity and support sector is incredibly welcome. I thank her for being here to debate the draft regulations and for welcoming the uprating, and I thank hon. Members for being part of the debate. There is always much interest in the scheme. The work that the former hon. Member for Rochdale, Tony Lloyd, did on the issue before his sad passing is of great note, and I recognise what the shadow Minister has said.

The Government recognise the vital role that these schemes play in supporting those with dust-related diseases who have no recourse to compensation through their employers. That is why the draft regulations seek to maintain the value of the payments made under the 1979 Act and 2008 Act schemes for the upcoming financial year. The additional changes that we propose will ensure that the original intention of the 1979 Act scheme remains fully reflected in legislation and that the diseases covered by the scheme are based on a more up-to-date clinical understanding. As a result of the changes, legislative entitlement to lump sum awards under the 1979 Act will, as I mentioned, be extended to include sufferers of one-sided diffuse pleural thickening and asbestos-related primary carcinoma of the lung without asbestosis. We remain committed to providing crucial financial support to sufferers of those industrial diseases.

The shadow Minister asked why the uprating is not considered as part of the main social security benefits uprating order. Unfortunately, the legislation that underpins the main social security benefits uprating does not include the lump sum payments under the 1979 Act and 2008 Act schemes. The uprating of the lump sum payments made under those schemes therefore requires separate regulation. Any change to this situation would require primary legislation, which is why we are back in this Committee Room this afternoon.

Like the hon. Lady, I have worked with the HSE over the last four years, and I know how seriously it takes its work on public buildings and asbestos. Of course, we all take public buildings and safety at work extremely seriously. The Government agree that addressing Great Britain’s asbestos legacy, particularly in public buildings, remains a key issue and that continuing to build on the evidence base around safe management and disposal is fundamental. That is why the HSE has a mature, comprehensive and important regulatory framework to ensure that the legacy of asbestos risks in Great Britain is managed. It aligns with the best evidence currently available, and this is reflected throughout the approaches outlined in the Control of Asbestos Regulations 2012. That is the correct implementation of CAR. It includes managing the risks of exposure and will eventually lead —we heard the stories that the hon. Lady mentioned— to the elimination of asbestos from the built environment without the need for a target deadline. Most importantly, it will ensure that people working in any such environment, as she mentioned, are fully supported.

The hon. Lady raised the question of equalisation and asked whether the value of the awards made to dependants under the schemes could be increased to match those made to sufferers of these diseases. It is clear that whole families, and those covered by the lump sum schemes, can be devastated by such diseases, which is why dependants can claim compensation following the passing of their loved one. Although I have listened carefully to the hon. Lady’s concerns and we have discussed these matters, the Government remain of the view that the available funding should continue to be prioritised for people who are currently living with the disease. That position remains in line with the main purpose of the schemes, which is to provide financial support for people living with certain diseases and help them to deal with the issues that their illness brings. We estimate that equalising awards for people diagnosed with the disease and their dependants in 2024-25 would require an additional £1 million to £4 million in the departmental expenditure limit budget. That is my answer to the hon. Lady, but if I have missed anything, my officials and I will write to her.

The wider point that the hon. Lady raised about asbestos in schools relates to an ongoing issue in which many hon. Members are interested. I would like to reassure everyone that the Department for Education rightly takes the safety of our children extremely seriously. All local authorities, governing bodies and academy trusts are expected to have robust plans in place to manage asbestos in school buildings effectively and in line with their legal duties. That follows expert advice from HSE that as long as asbestos-containing materials are in good condition, well protected and unlikely to be damaged or disturbed, it is usually safer to manage them in place.

The hon. Lady mentioned the recommendations of the Work and Pensions Committee. The Government are not opposed to any steps that continue to support the asbestos safety regime and that enable risk to be managed effectively. In my time working with HSE and the Select Committee, they have certainly been keen to keep engaged. I do not hold that portfolio, but the hon. Lady’s points were well made. I think I have probably answered all her questions, but I will ensure that if anything remains outstanding, my officials will pick it up.

The schemes form only a part of the wider range of Government support that is available to sufferers of these diseases. For example, the recipients of IIDB get the weekly payment I mentioned, based on their assessed level of disablement; as the hon. Lady said, they are entitled to state benefits to cover other needs, such as income replacement support with caring costs, and support for whatever additional costs may arise due to their disability.

While financial support is vital, we must ensure that we do our utmost to improve health outcomes for sufferers of these terrible diseases and, as the hon. Lady said, those who may be coming through with new learned experiences, which I am sorry to hear about. I am pleased to say that respiratory disease is a clinical priority within the NHS long-term plan, which aims to improve outcomes for sufferers through early diagnosis and increased access to treatment. Respiratory disease is also one of the six conditions covered by the Government’s major conditions strategy, which aims to improve care and health outcomes for those living with multiple conditions and an increasing set of needs, which can be more and more complex.

I am delighted to conclude this debate, which has once again shown that this House is committed to ensuring that the necessary support is available for the individuals and their families living with the consequences of these terrible diseases. I commend the draft regulations and schemes to the Committee and ask its approval for implementing them.

Question put and agreed to.

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft Mesothelioma Lump Sum Payments (Conditions and Amounts) (Amendment) Regulations 2024.

Draft Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers’ Compensation) (Specified Diseases and Prescribed Occupations) (Amendment) Regulations 2024

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers’ Compensation) (Specified Diseases and Prescribed Occupations) (Amendment) Regulations 2024.—(Mims Davies.)

Draft Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers’ Compensation) (Payment of Claims) (Amendment) Regulations 2024

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft Pneumoconiosis etc. (Workers’ Compensation) (Payment of Claims) (Amendment) Regulations 2024.—(Mims Davies.)