Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Thursday 13th October 2011 Commons Chamber

[David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)]

1. What steps her Department is considering taking to protect households in Warrington from flooding.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

Before I start, may I welcome the new members of the Opposition Front-Bench team and the returning member, the hon. Member for Ogmore (Huw Irranca-Davies)? That is a great pleasure and I look forward to working with them in future weeks; the hon. Gentleman is living proof that one can boil cabbage twice.

The Environment Agency is working closely with partners to develop a scheme that will reduce the risk of flooding from the River Mersey to 2,000 properties in Warrington. Last year, DEFRA provided £200,000 to Warrington borough council, which it used to address local flood risk for 30 homes in Dallam and Orford. Flood risk from rivers in Warrington is also actively managed by water course maintenance, flood warning and development control.

[David Mowat]

I thank the Minister for that reply, and, as he says, the work that has taken and is taking place in Westy is much appreciated. In other parts of Warrington, around Penketh and Sankey, the previously planned work has been delayed. Will the Minister give some indication of the time scales for that work?

[Richard Benyon]

It is to my hon. Friend’s credit that he continuously raises these issues with the Environment Agency and the Department. The Sankey area is of great concern to a number of households. It does not rate as highly as the other much larger scheme in the Warrington area and it will be considered, as is the way, with complete transparency in the funding scheme that has been announced, which will be considered by the local flood authority in due course.

[Mr Andrew Love (Edmonton) (Lab/Co-op)]

rose—

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[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

The Secretary of State has met church building representatives to discuss the issues, and Natural England is working closely with them to find solutions to difficult cases. We have had no discussions with the Department for Culture, Media and Sport on the issue.

[Tony Baldry]

My hon. Friend’s family have the patronage of the livings of a number of churches, so he will know more than most Members about the damage done by bat faeces and urine to church fabric. May I exhort him to encourage Natural England to do much more to work with English Heritage to try to ensure that, while bats continue to have their statutory protection, they do not have it at the cost of irreparable damage to our parish churches?

[Richard Benyon]

As someone who loves bats and is a reasonably regular churchgoer, I suppose that I am qualified to talk about this. There is a serious point: of course, we want to abide by the habitats directive and, in most cases, working with Natural England, we can resolve these issues locally, but it would be ridiculous if churches that have been used for worship for hundreds of years become unusable owing to a too-close following of the directive. There must be a common-sense way forward. I am happy to work with my hon. Friend in his capacity as the Second Church Estates Commissioner to ensure that we have sensible policies on the issue.

[Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

At St Hilda’s church in a parish near Thornton-le-Dale parish, the bats are allowed to use the church but the congregation is not. Have we not reached a ridiculous state of affairs when bats have greater protection than the congregation?

[Richard Benyon]

I am aware of the issue at St Hilda’s. If that really is the case, we have reached an absolute impasse. We must consider finding an alternative means to provide a place where bats can roost and people can worship. That is one of the reasons why the Government have put all wildlife legislation in the Law Commission’s hands—to make absolutely certain that we are not gold-plating our interpretation of the directive. I assure my hon. Friend that I will work with her and any other Member if they find examples where we have hit the buffers and cannot find a way forward.

[Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Con)]

7. What recent discussions she has had on reform of the common fisheries policy.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

As UK Fisheries Minister, I continue to have discussions about the reform of the common fisheries policy with a wide range of people and organisations, including the EU Commission, Members of the UK and European Parliaments and ministerial colleagues from other member states, as well as representatives of fishing and related industries. I will continue to press our case for reform, as the negotiations develop in the Council and European Parliament.

[Oliver Colvile]

May I urge my hon. Friend to press for UK fishing waters to come back under UK control, and to sort out the loopy idea that the Austrians might end up having a vote on the common fisheries policy even though they do not have a single piece of coastline?

[Richard Benyon]

I understand my hon. Friend’s concerns. That debate will perhaps be had at a higher level than mine, but he should remember two things. First, we are dealing with an industry in crisis, so urgency is a real factor for those involved in the fishing industry, both in his constituency and everywhere else. Secondly, we would need a mechanism for dealing with other countries whether we were covered by the common fisheries policy or not, because fish do not respect borders. We would have to continue to deal with historical fishing rights, which go beyond our membership of the common fisheries policy. I take seriously my responsibility, given the door that has been opened by the Commission’s position on the subject, to push for real, genuine, radical reform that can improve the situation for fishermen and the marine environment.

[Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP)]

Alongside CFP reform, the ongoing mackerel dispute with Iceland and the Faroe islands continues to cause great concern, not just for pelagic fishermen but for the white fish fleet and fish processors. Will the Minister update the House on the progress of negotiations with Iceland and tell us, in the event of a deal, what recompense will be made available to Scottish fishermen? Might it possibly take the form of additional quota?

[Richard Benyon]

I cannot give the hon. Lady that precise information at the moment. I can tell her that there has been a slight improvement in the relationship with the Icelanders, and I hope that we can build on that. I am still pessimistic about our discussions with the Faroese, but I assure her that I will keep her closely involved, because we are talking about our most valuable fishery. It is sustainable, and we face a severe risk of losing marine stewardship accreditation for the stock, which would cause great harm to her constituents and our economy.

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

For the first time, I do not have to declare an interest in the subject.

Will the Minister update the House on any representations that he has made during the ongoing negotiations to enable the United Kingdom to introduce a higher standard of fisheries management for all fishing vessels fishing within our 12-mile limit, and say whether any member states have pledged support for that?

[Richard Benyon]

I continue to work with other member states to get across our view that where we are creating marine conservation zones outside the 6-mile limit, we should not be controlling the activities of our fishermen while allowing fishermen from other countries to continue to operate as they did. There has to be a level playing field. On fisheries safety and the development of control orders, which came in under the previous Government, this is the opportunity to make sure that fishermen from other countries behave as we require our fishermen to behave. It is really important that we follow through with that. We have allies in Europe, and I am determined to make sure that an even-handed approach is taken.

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[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

I much enjoyed a visit to HMS Mersey and boarding a trawler from another country, and I was impressed by the squadron’s professionalism and approach to the whole job. It is at an advanced stage in negotiations with the Marine Management Organisation on the continuance of this contract. I very much hope that that can be achieved, because I share my hon. Friend’s view that it is a very professionally run operation that is doing great service not only to our fishing industry and the maintenance of our waters but to our national security.

[Jonathan Edwards (Carmarthen East and Dinefwr) (PC)]

T2. The Animal Health and Veterinary Laboratories Agency has announced proposals to close eight of its labs, including both Welsh sites at Aberystwyth and Ceredigion. I am informed that closure of the Welsh sites will result in a 24-hour delay in diagnosing livestock diseases—an unacceptable period that could leave the communities I represent terribly exposed. Does the Minister agree that it is a disgrace that this decision was made without any consultation with the Welsh Government or the farming and workers trade unions?

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[Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)]

T9. The Shropshire Union canal runs through the heart of Chester and is much-loved by canal users, fishermen and local residents. How can local people and canal users get involved in the new north Wales and borders waterways partnership to help support the future of our local canals and inland waterways?

[Richard Benyon]

The good news that the launch of the canal and river trust is on schedule will be welcome to my hon. Friend’s constituents and all who know and love their canals. There is a plethora of ways in which they can get involved. They can take part in their local partnership, which, following our consultation, will have a much more local focus. I look forward to working with him and other hon. Members to ensure that the new charity is a great success.

[Lisa Nandy (Wigan) (Lab)]

T4. Farmers and food suppliers in Wigan are desperate for the protection of a groceries ombudsman from the unfair practices of supermarkets. The Government recently promised a Bill to implement that proposal very soon. Will the Secretary of State put pressure on her colleagues to ensure that “soon” really will be soon?

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[Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD)]

I welcome the Minister’s announcement about the canal and river trust. What plans does he have to ensure that its decision-making is transparent and accountable? Indeed, will he consider applying to it the Freedom of Information Act?

[Richard Benyon]

I am grateful for the opportunity to point out that all the provisions that currently exist for British Waterways in that regard will follow through to the new charity. If the new charity is to have the credibility that it must have, it is important that we assure all those who really mind about this matter that we are protecting those rights.

[Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab)]

On 6 July, in a Westminster Hall debate on dangerous dogs, the Minister said in his response that there was

“real evidence that the situation is worsening”

and that

“Action must, therefore, be taken.”—[Official Report, 6 July 2011; Vol. 530, c. 485WH.]

Given that admission, is it not morally reprehensible that even today he refuses to give a date for a response to the consultation started by the previous Government?

Waste Water (Thames and Greater London)

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Wednesday 14th September 2011 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

Thank you, Mrs Brooke, for calling me to speak. I am very grateful to you for your chairmanship of our proceedings this afternoon. I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark (Simon Hughes) on raising this important issue at a crucial time for this project.

I do not know any elected person from any political party who could possibly approach this project in any way that was not sceptical. We are talking about a huge sum of money, but we are also talking about a huge problem. Consequently, it is right that we rigorously check, first, that undertaking this project is the right thing to do and, secondly, that the alternatives are simply not good enough to deal with what we know is a very serious problem.

I approach this project from that perspective, and I also approach it as a constituency MP, whose constituents are paying Thames Water’s bills in the most westerly point of the Thames Water area. As is the case with many MPs in the Thames Water area, my constituents will ask me whether this project is good value for money and what it aims to achieve. I understand the concerns that have been expressed, and I respect the debate and the spirit in which the right hon. Gentleman introduced it.

We know that we face a very serious problem. It is not only a legal problem, although it is important that we respond to the European Commission’s concerns and its belief that we are not complying with the urban waste water treatment directive—we will vigorously defend ourselves against that claim. Nobody who has anything to do with the River Thames can deny that we face a problem now and that if our generation of politicians does not take action, we will leave the next generation with a possibly devastating impact on an iconic—that is a rather overused word, but it is appropriate here—river that runs through one of the most important capital cities in the world.

Therefore, the Government are taking a similar view to that of the previous Government, in that we believe that it is important that this project goes ahead and that the tunnel option is the right one. We are open about our reasons for that. I have the highest respect for Lord Selborne. He is an extraordinarily able parliamentarian and he has experience of a wide range of scientific and environmental issues. My Department is taking his commission and its inquiry seriously. We have contributed to that process, and we will certainly look at what his commission says. We want to be as open as possible, and we also want to try to make people who are sceptical about our proposal understand how we have arrived at this point, sharing with them as much information as we can.

It takes as little as 2 mm of sudden rainfall to trigger an overflow into the Thames of untreated waste water from a combined sewer. Currently, around 39 million cubic metres of waste water enter the Thames every year from London’s combined sewer overflows when storm water capacity is exceeded. That is enough to fill the Royal Albert hall 450 times. I have tried to get that image out of my head, but failed.

Those discharges occur around 50 to 60 times a year, and they have a significant environmental impact on the Thames. The drought ended in June. That was just after the Department for Environment, Food and Rural called the drought summit—the two events may have been linked—and at that time there was a combined sewage overflow spill that resulted in an appallingly large number of fish being killed. It is the habitat and environment of the river that we are concerned about. I am sure that hon. Members from all parties know that those discharges increase the likelihood of aquatic wildlife being killed and create a higher health hazard than we can imagine for people using, enjoying or living near the river. Therefore we must take action. Nobody has more respect than me for David Walliams for his extraordinary achievement, but it brought to our attention the fact that he had to take antibiotics to protect himself in case he fell ill because of the condition of the Thames, as so many other people already have.

In the few minutes that I have left, I will try to respond as quickly as I can to the specific points that my right hon. Friend made. I received a copy of them as I walked into Westminster Hall this afternoon, because I came straight from another event.

My right hon. Friend asked what the Government’s response is to the recommendations of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee report of 30 March. I can assure him that we will respond to that report in full in a few weeks’ time, and I will ensure that he is apprised of that response.

My right hon. Friend also asked whether my Department will hold off on the publication of the revised national policy statement until the relevant part of the Localism Bill has been implemented. We are going through this process without prejudging what Parliament will do, on the basis that the Localism Bill as it currently stands will receive Royal Assent. It is really important that we understand that the Localism Bill will bring that crucial element of democratic accountability, and I am grateful to him for raising that point.

Parliament will consider the NPS by the end of this year. My right hon. Friend asked me whether I can confirm that there will be a debate about the NPS on the Floor of the House and, if so, whether the motion will be amendable. The NPS will be laid before Parliament for 21 days, and it is in his gift and that of any other right hon. or hon. Member to request a debate on it. I would welcome such a debate, which would be an opportunity to set out our reasons for supporting this project.

My right hon. Friend asked whether significant consequential buildings will be the subject of local planning processes. I think that he is concerned about the NPS and the planning processes being dealt with all in one when there might be specific issues in right hon. and hon. Members’ constituencies about legitimate local planning concerns. My understanding is that those cases would undergo application for development consent. I will write to him and make it absolutely clear what we are saying here, because I know that this is a matter of particular importance to right hon. and hon. Members.

[Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)]

Will the Minister be so kind as to include in that correspondence the other hon. Members who are here in Westminster Hall for this debate and who are interested in that particular issue?

[Richard Benyon]

I put it on the record that I will copy that correspondence to the hon. Members for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick) and for Hammersmith (Mr Slaughter), who are present in Westminster Hall for this debate.

The Thames tunnel commission has been established. As I have already said, we are providing evidence to it and we will look at what it produces. My right hon. Friend the Member for Bermondsey and Old Southwark asked about the cost of the Thames tunnel project. Obviously, that is of huge concern to everybody who pays water bills in the Thames Water area. The current estimates for the costs are being reviewed on a regular basis, as he would expect them to be. As is the case with any cost assessment, there are assumptions in those assessments, including assumptions about construction costs and the financing of the operation. I assure him that Thames Water is building a very large contingency element into its costs analysis. Along with Thames Water, we are being extremely rigorous in ensuring that all risks are being considered and that—without being Rumsfeldian—all the unknowns that we know about are assessed, to see whether we can know more than we currently do.

The most important point, however, is that there must be a credible package to put, first, to water-charge payers and, secondly, to put to investors. Without that credible package and without Government support for the project, I do not believe that we can go ahead with the scheme. As I have said, it is extremely important that there is a credible package. An impact assessment from 2007 of cost-benefit analysis is being updated, and we will make the updated version public.

My right hon. Friend asked what the rules are regarding compensation when people’s land and amenities are affected by this scheme. If he will allow me, I will include a fuller answer to that in my letter to him.

My right hon. Friend’s last question related to issues about the sites at King’s Stairs gardens and Chamber’s wharf. That is a very important question and there are other sites that other hon. Members have already raised with me and will continue to do so. I confirm to my right hon. Friend that those issues are planning issues and therefore that it is for Thames Water to take them forward. However, we are looking very closely at them and we will liaise with him and others if we feel that there is a role for Government to influence the process. We want to ensure that this enormous scheme—both its construction and its eventual operation—has as little impact as possible on his constituents and others in the Thames area.

I cannot give a fuller reply than that, but I assure my right hon. Friend that I will continue to liaise with him and other London Members, particularly riverside Members, as well as with any other hon. Members who represent constituencies in the Thames Water area, to ensure that we are working together, first, to make the value of this project understood and, secondly, to make it a success for future generations.

English National Park Authorities and the Broads Authority (Governance)

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Tuesday 13th September 2011 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

The nine national parks in England, along with the broads, represent some of our finest landscapes which have been a source of inspiration, challenge, and reassurance to our citizens over many generations. Each now has an independent authority, constructed along local authority lines, to maximise the benefits which we all derive from these special areas. In the coalition’s programme for government we said that

“We will review the governance arrangements of national parks in order to increase local accountability”

That commitment was honoured by a public consultation which ran from 9 November 2010 until 1 February 2011. In the consultation document we made it clear that the Government did not intend to remove or replace the authorities but was rather looking for ways in which their governance arrangements could be improved. We also made it clear that there could be variety between authorities—this would allow governance to better reflect their individual circumstances and histories and be consistent with the coalition Government’s commitment to decentralisation and localism.

I am today responding to the NPAs’ proposals by placing on DEFRA’s website and in the Library of the House a list of the proposals made by the NPAs and my response to them.

Central to this consultation was the question of accountability and the ultimate accountability is of course through the ballot box. Ever since the original legislation was being enacted in 1995, there have been calls for some members to be directly elected and that already happens in the Scottish NPAs. I have concluded that the time has now come for us to explore that option more thoroughly in England. I therefore propose to bring forward legislation which will allow for the possibility of elections in the national park authorities and the broads authority. Initially we propose to apply the new legislation in two NPAs on a pilot basis, namely the New Forest and the Peak district NPAs which provide different contexts on which to assess the impact of directly elected members.

DEFRA will be talking to the New Forest and Peak district NPAs in more detail about their pilots, covering in particular the number of members to be directly elected and the way they can be accommodated without increasing the overall size of those authorities.

Other changes include: altering the composition of the Dartmoor, Lake District and Exmoor authorities; some changes to the procedure for selecting “national” members (within the requirements of the OCPA code); removing the Secretary of State’s role in confirming parish appointments; in some NPAs (but not all) making non-councillors eligible for parish seats; applying a maximum limit to the period which all members may serve; requiring annual reports on how well the members of each authority have collectively performed and endorsing a number of changes which NPAs can make under their existing powers—for example, strengthening links between members and particular areas of the park or improving meeting arrangements. I also propose further work in some areas.

A number of the actions I have outlined will require formal consultation and others require further development in co-operation with relevant bodies such as the NPAs and the Local Government Association. An implementation plan is being prepared which will present this information in tabular form and will be available on DEFRA’s website (www.defra.gov.uk).

New Waterways Charity

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Monday 12th September 2011 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

On 14 October 2010, the Government announced their intention to move British Waterways in England and Wales from being a public corporation to a new waterways charity—subject to parliamentary approval.

On 30 March 2011, I launched a high-level consultation on this proposal. The consultation closed on 30 June 2011.

Today, I am announcing the publication of the Government’s response to this consultation, alongside a further consultation on the legislation to transfer functions from British Waterways to the new charity, both of which are available at: http://www.defra.gov. uk/consult/.

The Government response confirms our commitment to the creation of a new waterways charity in England and Wales, subject to parliamentary approval. It details the main points raised by stakeholders during the consultation exercise, and the Government’s proposals in the light of those comments. The response has been developed by working closely with the transition trustees of the new charity. Key points addressed in the response include:

Local partnerships will be named “Waterways Partnerships” to reflect their strategic role and size; each partnership will develop a “localism strategy”.

Fair representation of different groups on the council will be prioritised. “Private boaters”, “boating businesses” and “NWC employees” will directly elect their representatives from the outset. We will progress to 50% of the council being directly elected overtime.

In addition to the Waterways Partnerships that cover the waterways in England, and those that cover the waterways straddling England and Wales, there will be a separate All-Wales Partnership, with representation from associated bodies with a Welsh remit.

We are publishing a revised and enhanced draft of the charitable purposes.

More detail is available on how Government will work with the charity to secure and safeguard public benefits, including free pedestrian access to the towpaths, through the charitable purposes. Trust obligations, legislation and Government funding agreement.

The Government believe that the move to civil society will secure the long-term financial sustainability of the waterways. We have already announced plans to transfer all of British Waterways’ property assets to the charity, as an endowment, and to commit to a long-term funding agreement. The length and terms of the agreement will be subject to negotiation and final agreement between Government and the transition trustees, this autumn.

The further consultation on legislation deals with the content of the proposed transfer order under the Public Bodies Bill, which will, subject to parliamentary approval, transfer the functions of British Waterways in England and Wales to the new charity. The document provides further information about the legislation which currently relates to British Waterways, the principles underpinning the functions to be transferred, and proposed amendments to legislation. It invites comments on the proposals specified. Because a full, 12-week consultation has already taken place on the principles of the transfer and this is a more limited consultation, it will take place over six weeks only and will close on 24 October 2011.

Flood and Water Management

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Thursday 8th September 2011 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

It is good of you to chair our proceedings, Mrs Main, albeit for only part of our debate. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh) and her Committee on the priority that they have given the issue, particularly the matter of flooding. I also congratulate them on their report and on raising it so eloquently here today. There is no doubt that these issues are of importance to hon. Members from all parties.

The Government’s response to the report has been published and I hope that my hon. Friend and her Committee will accept that the Government are taking full account of all its recommendations. As she has acknowledged, the Government are in the process of implementing the Flood and Water Management Act 2010 in a proportionate way, having due regard to the need to ensure that the regulatory burden on businesses and citizens is justified. We have already provided much-needed clarity on the roles and responsibilities of regulatory authorities, local authorities and others in flood and water management. We are in the process of developing secondary legislation to address the remaining key elements of the Act: sustainable drainage systems, private sewers and reservoir safety. We will consult widely on our proposals once they have been fully developed.

The Flood and Water Management Act covered all of Sir Michael Pitt’s recommendations that required primary legislation, except for producing consolidated floods legislation, which it would not be sensible for us to do in advance of the red tape challenge, where we will seek to repeal any unnecessary legislation. We are aware that other parts of the draft Flood and Water Management Bill were included in the subsequent Act. We are looking again at the need for primary legislation and will only legislate where necessary. Any legislative proposals will be set out in the water White Paper. I say very clearly to hon. Members that we are committed to publishing that White Paper by December—not in December, but by December. If there is any change to that, I will personally notify the hon. Member for Copeland (Mr Reed), my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton—the Committee Chair—and anyone else concerned. However, that is our commitment today.

The White Paper will focus on increasing the resilience of our water supplies to the pressures of demographic and climate change; on reforming the water industry in the light of those challenges so that it is innovative, efficient and customer-focused; and on ensuring that bills remain affordable. I will come on to address some of the points eloquently raised by a number of hon. Members, not just those in the south-west. We would expect any water Bill to be tightly drafted and to focus on water legislation rather than flood management. The Government are committed to increasing the number of Bills that are published in draft for pre-legislative scrutiny, and we will consider the feasibility of doing so in the time available. I hope that my hon. Friend and her Committee will be able to follow that process.

The Government’s new approach to funding flood and coastal defence projects announced back in May, which has been raised by a number of hon. Members, has already scored a number of successes. Instead of meeting the full costs of just a limited number of schemes, a partnership approach will make Government money available to pay for a share of any potential scheme. Cost savings and local contributions will mean that more communities can enjoy the benefits that flood and coastal defences bring. We expect that, in 2012-13, there will be around £20 million-worth of contributions coming in from local and private sources. The new approach is enabling schemes to go ahead across the country that otherwise would not be able to do so, as the outcomes delivered by those schemes were not sufficient to be fully funded by central Government. Through partnership funding, we have opened the door to enable local priorities to be funded, while ensuring that every pound of Government investment is focused on supporting those who need it most, especially those most at risk and living in the most deprived parts of the country. That answers one of the points clearly made by the hon. Member for Brent North (Barry Gardiner).

Notable successes include the highly controversial and long-awaited scheme in York and Water End. I hope that that scheme will come to fruition this year. A contribution of £1 million towards the cost from the City of York is, of course, hugely welcome. There is also very good news for Sandwich town, which is an example of how partnership working can bring results. The scheme ran into difficulties as a result of the announced closure of the Pfizer research centre. A significant contribution by Pfizer towards the cost of the flood defence scheme in Sandwich town, along with contributions from Kent county council, has ensured that construction should begin next year.

My hon. Friend and other hon. Members raised the vexed issue of sustainable drainage and sewerage. We recognise the need to encourage and support sustainable drainage. An expanding population, changing climate and urbanisation mean that the drainage infrastructure can come under pressure. That leads to increased flood risk, as there is a fast-flowing conveyance of surface water downstream, with little or none of the slow-moving, filtering characteristics of natural drainage. We intend to consult soon on a package of measures to encourage the use of sustainable drainage systems and to remove the automatic right for developers to connect to the public sewer system. In addition to increased flood risk, the pressure on the sewer system to drain an increasing amount of surface water has a significant negative impact on water quality downstream, for example, through pollution caused by overflowing surface water and combined sewers. We are working to encourage improvements in sewer infrastructure and capability through the transfer of responsibility for private sewers from home owners to water and sewerage companies. I appreciate the point that has been made on that work, which has been 10 years in the waiting. Such an approach will be a massive comfort to many households who face enormous bills.

Before I come on to the more detailed issues that have been raised, I will mention the important matter discussed by my hon. Friends the Members for Stroud (Neil Carmichael) and for Tiverton and Honiton (Neil Parish) regarding the impact of floods on agricultural land and concerns about food security. Those concerns, which have been raised in relation to coastal erosion issues and coastal erosion flood risk management, are absolutely at the top of DEFRA’s priorities. I reassure hon. Members that the impact of flood management and coastal erosion on farmland will remain an important consideration. However, food security is principally about availability, affordability and access to nutritious and sustainably produced food, rather than having an absolute foot-by-foot, acre-by-acre, hectare-by-hectare analysis of what could be produced here and there. Although the matter is an absolute priority for DEFRA, domestic production and a healthy rural economy are also important. Concerns will need to be reconciled with the need to protect people and property.

The hon. Member for Copeland asked whether we have a level playing field between urban and rural communities and mentioned the impact on agricultural land. Flood funding is allocated on a case-by-case basis and each case has to stand on its own merits. In the floods of 2007, there were damages worth more than £3.7 billion. Approximately 4% of that was in agriculture. I am not diminishing the impact on agriculture—I am a farmer and I represent a rural constituency, and we want to protect farmland for all the reasons that I have just stated—but we also want to protect people and property. That is a balance that Governments down the ages have had to make and we will not shy away from doing so. However, it is important that we get it right and that we are fair by people and by the properties in which they live. We also recognise the important contribution that farmers make to our rural life, to our economy and to the very important points I made about food security.

[Mr Graham Stuart]

At the moment, the benefit-cost ratio gives a weighting to deprivation. That tends to favour urban over rural, as does the application of population density. Is there really a role for deprivation in the allocation of flood defence funding?

[Richard Benyon]

I think there is, and I will tell my hon. Friend why. I can only speak about this in generalities. My hon. Friend must forgive me if, in doing so, I make it harder for him to apply this, in his mind, across certain communities. We all know that in certain communities, there is a terrific local capacity to take these problems head on. I have communities in which hydrologists live. I have communities that have been flooded where there are water engineers. I have communities flooded where there are people with enormous resources, both financial and intellectual. We have seen communities all around the country with the capacity to put together a partnership funding stream that can work overnight, almost, in terms of flooding schemes. There are other communities where there is not that capacity. That is not to diminish the people who live there at all; they just do not have that capacity. We have to have a system that is mindful that some communities need more help than others.

[Mr Reed]

On that point, may I put on the record the fact that all of us acknowledge that there is still—I know that the hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart) would not want to give the opposite impression, far from it—real deprivation in rural England and Wales as well?

[Richard Benyon]

Of course I acknowledge that; I was coming on to talk about it. Possibly through the unguarded way in which I was talking about affordability in the south-west, I may have—heaven forbid—given the impression that I thought that people in the south-west were all millionaires. Of course I do not think that. I am fully aware of the profile of rural life across the south-west and across other parts of the country. The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right—there is deprivation in rural areas as well.

[Barry Gardiner]

Just to add to the Minister’s caution around the question of deprivation, so much of social housing in the past 25 years has been built in areas that are subject to flood risk. The people who live in that housing had few housing options open to them. Through being on housing lists, they were forced into that accommodation. They are particularly exposed to those risks, in ways which people who have the financial ability to choose where they live are not. For that specific reason, it is important that deprivation is taken into account.

[Richard Benyon]

The hon. Gentleman is right, and that relates to the issue of insurance as well. I have been taking forward one measure. Housing associations or council-owned housing stock offer an opt-in scheme on contents insurance. I believe strongly that we should encourage people to do an opt-out scheme. Fifty pence a week can give you £5,000 worth of contents insurance. People would be more likely to have that if it were an opt-out scheme. There is so much that we can do to protect.

[Mr Graham Stuart]

Will my hon. Friend give way?

[Richard Benyon]

I am conscious of the time. I will if it is a very quick intervention, and then I must make some progress.

[Mr Stuart]

I am grateful. The Minister talked about capacity in areas. Through him, may I congratulate Ron Smith and Burstwick United, who worked through early difficulties to forge a big society partnership with the Environment Agency to protect the village? The Minister has been invited to come and open the scheme. There are farmers storing the pumps. We have others manning the pumps. Will he confirm today that he will come to Burstwick and celebrate that community’s response to the floods in 2007?

[Richard Benyon]

I have developed a habit of agreeing, if any colleague asks me, to go to any part of the country at any time and it causes the people who work in my office palpitations. However, I can assure my hon. Friend that I would very much like to see precisely such schemes where there is flood watch—rather like neighbourhood watch—and where people work together to protect the vulnerable. There are fantastic examples of that around the country. I would be delighted to see that scheme at some stage.

May I quickly address the points that hon. Members have made? The Chair of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton, made the point, eloquently made by the NFU, that we should not treat farmers as the providers of free storage of floodwater. We take the contribution that landowners and farmers make towards flood schemes very seriously.

My hon. Friend talked about internal drainage boards. Of course, many members of those boards are members of the farming community. They are also members of the local authorities and members of the community and we value bottom-up community engagement. I am a huge admirer of internal drainage boards. They do fantastic work. I had a meeting this week with IDBs from Lincolnshire to understand how they are coping with the extraordinary challenges they have in that area; so much of it is under sea level. The work that they do is enormous. I want to ensure that the Environment Agency works with IDBs to ensure that watercourses are open and flowing, and that everything is at the standard it should be.

I want to see more of what I saw in the constituency of my hon. Friend the Member for Suffolk Coastal (Dr Coffey). When I went there a few weeks after I started this job, I did something quite by accident—it was organised by my officials. However, it seemed like a good way of doing government. I got into a car with the local MP, representatives of the local authority, the Country Land and Business Association, the NFU, the Environment Agency and Natural England and locked the door. We drove down, looked at certain features and discussed the problems. When I went back there, I discovered that a different attitude prevailed. The Environment Agency had adopted a “yes, if” approach. Now, one telephone call results in action being taken. My hon. Friend the Member for Witham (Priti Patel) must work as much as she can with me, and with her neighbours in Suffolk, to try to create a Total Environment scheme, and pool activity—and sometimes pool money—to ensure that we can make a similar attitude prevail in her part of the world. It is really exciting to see it working; it means that we have a responsive system.

I have discussed the issue of SUDS. My hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton talked about the impact of the natural environment White Paper, the water White Paper and the timing. I can assure her that we have made a very serious pitch to ensure that there is adequate time in the next Session. I very much hope that we will get that, because important measures will come out in the water White Paper that will need a legislative approach.

My hon. Friend, not surprisingly, raised the issue of Pickering and is right to do so. That is an important issue for her and her constituents. I can assure her that we understand the urgency of her constituents’ concerns. We are working extremely closely to make sure that we meet local concerns about the shelving of the scheme, understand the impact of the Reservoirs Act 1975, and discover whether we can find alternatives that are cost-effective and which can be brought forward as quickly as possible.

My hon. Friend talked about the problem of over-engineered projects. The Environment Agency’s schemes meet the highest industry standards. They are designed to ensure optimum levels of protection and give an average return on investment of seven to one. There are occasions when we can sit and work out whether we need a Rolls-Royce solution, or whether we can actually make do with a reasonably priced family car solution. I can assure her that we are open to all suggestions and that her concerns are being taken forward.

My hon. Friend made a point about local authorities’ finance for flood and coastal erosion risk management. I can reassure her that the money we have put in has ensured good flood and coastal erosion risk management strategies from the local authorities. All have submitted strategies except one—I will not say which one, but it is not represented by anyone present in the Chamber. We provided the funding, and it is important for the work to be carried forward.

I shall come on to insurance in a minute, but in the five minutes I have left I must also deal with the points made by other hon. Members. The hon. Member for Llanelli (Nia Griffith) raised the issue of planning and building on floodplains. The Environment Agency—in England, obviously—takes the matter absolutely seriously and gives strict advice on planning applications as they are made, and I will ensure that that continues. The Pitt review is unequivocal on that and we must follow its important recommendations.

My hon. Friend the Member for Stroud raised the issue of the Severn estuary shoreline management plan. I recognise that that is an area where things were not got right, and we want to ensure that we do get them right. I am working closely with him, other colleagues from that area and the Environment Agency. I had a meeting with them this week and I want to make sure that we share information with local farmers on a consultative basis. We are talking about something not for tomorrow but for 20, 30, 40 or 50 years’ time. We must have a plan in place that is understood and that people are consulted on—I assure him that I will ensure that we do that. He eloquently set out the challenges that face us as we tackle the problems, and we will carry that forward.

The hon. Member for Brent North talked about funding, as did the hon. Member for Copeland. I do not want to enter a sterile debate. They know that, if we compare the previous period of the Labour Administration with the current four years, the reduction is 8%. They also know that massive cuts were announced by the then Chancellor just before the election. We could get into that debate about where we are and where we are going. However, I can assure them and the House that we have fought and protected our budget in a way that was out of all proportion to the spending restraint that we have achieved throughout the Department and the Government. The priority goes right to the top of this Government, and we will ensure that it works. With the efficiencies that we are getting out of the Environment Agency, we will be able to achieve our aims of protecting 145,000 homes, and I remain optimistic that we can do better.

[Barry Gardiner]

Will the Minister give way?

[Richard Benyon]

I apologise, but I really cannot, because I do not have much time left.

The statement of principles was mentioned by a great many hon. Members. We are working hard with the insurance industry and all relevant parties. A number of hon. Members, including the Chair of the Select Committee, came to our flood summit, out of which came three working parties, which will look at the financial risks from flooding, data provision, transparency and sharing, and the customer experience of resilience to flooding. We had a meeting with the Secretary of State to follow up that work, which we are progressing, and we will come forward with the solutions in the early part of next year—that is a real priority for the Department.

It is important to recognise that some houses that have insurance in name barely do so if we take the excess charges into account. We face a great many difficulties, but our understanding of flooding—in particular we have a greater understanding of surface water flooding—is starting to pay dividends. We can now get a picture, almost house by house, of where risk starts and finishes, and of what we can do. Sometimes the risk can be alleviated merely by putting a row of bricks on top of a wall or by blocking an entrance or configuring it differently, but we must make certain that all our plans are joined up. Our desire to protect the natural environment, which is strong, does not mean that we are flooding homes because we are not thinking of things in an holistic and joined-up way. All agencies are seized of that, and I will continue to drive it.

I am rather concerned by the eponymous nature of some of the proposals and the optimistic view that people might have of my abilities. I hesitate to take credit for so much that has been thrown at me, because it has been a team effort. I pay tribute to how the Environment Agency is approaching this important issue, although I can assure hon. Members that I work closely with it.

DEFRA has spent a lot of money on equipping emergency services and other organisations with training and equipment to deal with flood. The hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) raised the issue of a statutory duty, but that is one of the few areas of the Pitt review that we have not taken forward. We have an open mind about it but, having said that, I cannot see why it makes a difference for a fire and rescue service to have a statutory duty. Every fire and rescue service that I have spoken to, and I have spoken to a lot, has done wonderful work when dealing with flood. We are equipping them and we are training. I am happy to talk to the hon. Gentleman with an open mind about whether a statutory duty would make a difference—the wording in the Pitt review is “as necessary”. Sir Ken Knight, the chief fire officer, has come forward with some proposals, and I would not mind discussing them with the hon. Gentleman in a less formal way, to see whether we can find a solution that satisfies everyone.

My hon. Friend the Member for Tewkesbury (Mr Robertson) and other hon. Members made important comments and gave moving descriptions of flooding in their areas—descriptions I recognise from flooding in my own constituency. I hope that hon. Members from the south-west were pleased with the Chancellor’s words in the Budget, which showed a real commitment to deal with the unfairness that they so accurately feel on behalf of their constituents. I assure them that we are following through on that.

The hon. Member for Copeland made many important points. He talked about whether we were taking an holistic enough view and dealing with the problems upstream. He was absolutely right to say that. It is important that water companies, farmers, landowners, local authorities and the Environment Agency ensure that we use the natural environment where we can to prevent flooding further down.

We will not spook the investor when we come to reform of the water industry. We recognise that around £100 billion has been spent by investors in the water industry in the past 20 years, and we want to see much more of that.

With those remarks, I would like to leave some time for the Chair of the Select Committee.

Common Fisheries Policy

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Thursday 14th July 2011 Commons Chamber

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con) (Urgent Question)]

To ask the Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs if she will make a statement on the European Commission’s proposed reforms of the European common fisheries policy, which were published on 13 July. The House will know of my special interest in fisheries.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for the opportunity to apprise the House of yesterday’s important announcement and the Government’s ongoing agenda in regard to reform of the common fisheries policy.

The United Kingdom Government welcome the release of the European Commission’s proposals. The current CFP has failed. It has not given us healthy fish stocks, and it has not delivered a sustainable living for our fishing industry. Only genuine, fundamental reform of this broken policy can turn around those failures, and the proposals released by the Commission yesterday are a vital first step.

The key elements of the proposal are the introduction of a phased ban on the discarding of commercial fish; decentralisation of decision-making, away from micro-management in Brussels; a longer-term approach focused on the introduction of multi-annual plans that deliver maximum sustainable yield by 2015; integration of fisheries management with other marine policies; market measures allocating transferable fishing concessions; improvements in the sustainability and transparency of fisheries agreements with developing countries under the CFP’s external dimension; and commitments to improve scientific knowledge and encourage the development of sustainable aquaculture.

This marks the start of lengthy negotiations, and the United Kingdom will play a full part of helping to improve the proposals and get the detail right. We are ready to work alongside our allies at home and abroad to grasp this once-in-a-decade opportunity.

[Sheryll Murray]

I thank my hon. Friend for coming to the House to give us that update, and for his efforts thus far on behalf of the fishing industry and fish stocks.

Article 25 of the proposed basic regulation states that a member state may adopt measures for the conservation of fish stocks in European Union waters within up to 12 miles, which will apply to vessels flying the flag of that member state, or, in the case of fishing activities that are not conducted by a fishing vessel, to persons established in the territory. Will my hon. Friend confirm that he will not apply any restrictions to recreational sea anglers who fish from the shore around our coastline?

When he goes to the Council of Ministers, will my hon. Friend make representations to enable the United Kingdom to introduce high standards of management and conservation in respect of all fishing vessels that fish within the 12-mile limit in our territorial waters? There is a precedent: most of the new member states, and Greece, restrict fishing within their 12-mile limits to their national fleets. It would be good if the Minister could go to the Council and argue for a level playing field for British fishermen.

[Richard Benyon]

The short answer to my hon. Friend’s first question is yes. The Government recognise the value of recreational sea angling, and we want to encourage it. We are running a specific project to identify sea anglers and their numbers, and to support their work for both tourism and the natural environment. Sea angling from the shore has no connection with the common fisheries policy, and will remain our national responsibility. We hope to see more sea anglers fishing onshore and from vessels.

As for my hon. Friend’s second, more technical question about the 12-mile limit, we will look for any opportunity to take more control over the management of our fisheries at a local level. The thrust of our proposals has been, and will continue to be, a decentralisation of fisheries management. We, too, want a level playing field, and my hon. Friend was entirely right to suggest that. Any examples of countries’ failing to comply will be our responsibility in the negotiations.

Finally, let me say something about our marine conservation measures. We want to ensure that we do not limit the activities of our fishermen in our waters, and then see other fishermen, with historic rights that may precede 1972, coming into our waters and fishing in an unacceptable way. I assure my hon. Friend that I am determined to see a level playing field.

[Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab)]

May I offer the Opposition’s support for the reforms proposed by the European Commission yesterday? They present a once-in-a-generation opportunity to reshape the current top-down, broken common fisheries policy into one that can better serve the fishing industry and consumers, and protect our marine environment.

Will the Minister join me in welcoming the potential that the reforms have to end the scandal of up to 60% of fish in some European fisheries being discarded at sea by introducing individual, nationally tradeable catch shares? Will he also support further incentives for the fishing industry to increase investment in selective fishing nets and other monitoring equipment, which could cut the levels of discards and by-catch still further? Will he take up the challenge from the WWF to call for specific measures to ensure that environmental targets are met by a new common fisheries policy, and to rebuild fisheries that the Commission said yesterday have been over-exploited by 75%? Small-scale fleets account for 77% of total EU fleet size, but only 8% in terms of tonnage. Will the Minister indicate how these proposals will secure the viability of that sector?

Finally, does the Minister share my disappointment that although a consensus in favour of these changes is building throughout the EU, the Scottish Government have chosen this moment to isolate themselves in Europe by opposing these reforms, and although their views will be respected, they will not shift the unanimous will of this House, nor of the 700,000 people who have signed the Fish Fight petition, to seize this moment for reform in the interests of the sustainability of fish stocks and the future of the fishing industry?

--- Later in debate ---

[Richard Benyon]

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s continued support for the Government’s position. I said this was a once-in-a-decade opportunity, but I rather prefer his reference to this being a once-in-a-generation opportunity. If we do not get this right this time, we all know what the state of both fish stocks in United Kingdom waters and the fishing industry could be, so a lot is riding on this. Things do not come much more important than success in these rounds.

The hon. Gentleman is right to raise the point about discards, as that is fundamental to these reforms. Steps such as the great work that was going on before we came to government—and which I hope he feels we have continued—and the development of concepts such as Fishing for the Markets, which looks at the 54% of discards created by the fact that there is no market for these fish, are all good in themselves, but the Fish Fight campaign came at precisely the right time and has lit a fuse under what we are seeking to achieve. The Commission’s proposals are bold and we want to support that spirit of boldness, and also to make sure that they are practical. We think the commissioner is going in the right direction on discards.

I want to make sure that fishermen are seen as part of the solution, and not just hit by yet more control and regulation. Where we have worked with fishermen, such as on catch quotas and Project 50% and on Fishing for the Markets, show that this is the way forward.

The hon. Gentleman raised a point about the under-10 metre fleet. We have just finished a consultation on trying to improve the fishing opportunity for the under-10s. The wording in the Commission’s document offers the potential for a one-way valve. We could transfer some of the rights-based proposals to enhance the under-10 metre fleet without disadvantaging the over-10 metre fleet, which is also suffering. I am therefore mindful of the difficult balance we have to achieve.

On the final point about Scotland, I just give the hon. Gentleman my assurance that I will work very closely with all the devolved Governments. I want to achieve a UK position on this, because that will give strength to our negotiating position. I do not recognise a huge difference between us and the Scottish Government. I know they have concerns about rights-based management, but I think we can get round that and I hope we can have a UK position going forward.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

First, may I congratulate my hon. Friend the Minister on his negotiating skills and endorse the comments of my hon. Friend the Member for South East Cornwall (Sheryll Murray)? In respect of inshore fishing and in particular the 12-mile limit, will my hon. Friend the Minister ensure that the historic rights of foreign vessels operating within that zone are properly scrutinised, particularly where they are towing away the gear of some of the inshore men, and ensure that there is equality of enforcement within those 12 miles?

[Richard Benyon]

I am happy to give my hon. Friend the assurance that I am absolutely determined that vessels from overseas respect whatever rules we bring in. Looking at the wording of this document, the means we are applying here is the marine strategy framework directive. The policies we are implementing through our conservation schemes—our marine-protected areas, our marine conservation zones under the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009—are entirely in accordance with that directive, so it is impossible for other countries to try to say we are acting in a discriminatory way. I got the verbal support of the Commissioner on this in my negotiations with her, and I want to make sure we underpin this issue in the negotiations going forward.

[Austin Mitchell (Great Grimsby) (Lab)]

I hope that the Minister will accept that the Commission’s proposals are rather like the curate’s fish: good in parts, but very smelly in others. There is a particular problem, which I hope he will pursue, with the national input, which is now beginning. First, in the process of decentralisation, more power should be passed down to the regional advisory councils, which involve the industry and have done a good job. Secondly, in pushing the question of discards back to the national Governments, the commissioner is trying to perform a populist trick, because discards pose a particular problem for mixed fisheries—which we have—and quotas. There are bound to be discards, and the fish are dead, whether they are landed or dumped at sea. We have to deal with the problem, but it is better dealt with in the way that the industry is dealing with it now—by selective measures, which have cut discards by 50% over 10 years—than through the blanket ban that the Commission proposes. I hope that the Minister will bear that in mind in the negotiations.

[Richard Benyon]

I entirely endorse the hon. Gentleman’s concerns about decentralisation. If I have a disappointment, it is about the tone of the document. I do not think that there is quite as much as we had hoped for on regionalisation and decentralisation. What do we mean by that? It means that we want fisheries to be managed on an ecosystem basis. It means that when it comes to the Irish sea, for example, we are talking with the Irish Government and devolved Governments to try to match what we know is a complex mixed fishery; and, when it comes to his constituency, we are proceeding in a similar way on the North sea. We will push hard for that, because we absolutely agree with the hon. Gentleman that top-down micro-management, under which net sizes and other technical measures are decided in Brussels, has failed and would be a disaster if allowed to continue.

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right that if most of the 700,000 people who signed the Fish Fight petition saw a headline with the words “discards” and “ban” in it, they might think, “Great! Job done,” but he and I know that it is not as simple as that. In order for the measure to be effective, particularly in mixed fisheries, we need to be nuanced and careful. That is why we have to ensure that we work closely, as he said, through the system of management that we develop and that we do not just allow a problem that at the moment happens at sea to be converted to a landfill problem, which could happen unless we are imaginative.

[Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

One cannot ring-fence European fisheries. Will my hon. Friend update the House on what is happening on the fisheries partnership agreements with developing countries, and how that might affect what happens in EU waters?

--- Later in debate ---

[Richard Benyon]

This has been one of the most worrying developments of the common fisheries policy in recent years. We cannot get our act together just in UK waters and in EU waters while ignoring the EU’s footprint on fisheries—if one can have a footprint on fisheries—further afield. I have been visited by fishermen from Mauritania, Cape Verde and Senegal, and have been truly shocked by what I have heard about the impact not just of EU vessels, but of vessels from other countries. Those vessels have been fishing totally unsustainably, which has had a destabilising effect on the economies of those coastal communities, along with other, social effects and the increased migration that this has caused. We have to understand that we in the EU really have to get our house in order, because it will have huge implications for developing countries if we do not.

[Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP)]

I very much welcome the Minister’s commitment to radical reform of fisheries management policy in Europe. I also welcome his commitment to working with the devolved Governments in that process. However, I hope that he will also share my concern that according to the European Commission’s own impact assessment, the proposals could result in a 20% reduction in the Scottish fishing fleet—a fleet that has already been halved in the past 10 years. What assurances can the Minister give that the most conservation-conscious and aware fleet in Europe will not be further punished for the failures of the common fisheries policy?

[Richard Benyon]

The hon. Lady is right to raise concerns on behalf of her constituents. I can give her an assurance that we are working through the detail of the proposals. As she knows, this is a major step, but it is also a first step in the negotiations, which will take another 18 months to secure. I will be working closely with my colleague Richard Lochhead in Scotland and with other devolved Ministers to try to ensure that we represent all the UK fleets. I cannot say at this stage whether the impact assessment would have the effect that she mentioned. However, I entirely concur with her that the Scottish fleet has taken great strides in fishing more sustainably, embracing concepts such as catch quotas. I will continue to work with her and others to ensure that this is understood not just here, but abroad as well.

[Laura Sandys (South Thanet) (Con)]

I have been speaking to my Thanet fishermen this morning and they very much welcome what they see as an opening up of opportunities for the under-10 fleet. Will the Minister confirm that that will offer us the opportunity to take advantage of technical measures and effort control to see a significant reduction in discards as a devolved mechanism that will be the responsibility of the Government and not determined by the EU?

[Richard Benyon]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for facilitating a useful meeting with fishermen in her constituency last week to hear their concerns about our under-10-metre consultation, which, like all things to do with fisheries, is welcomed massively at one end of the spectrum and treated with suspicion at the other. I want to ensure that we can keep as many happy as we can.

The point about the consultation is that it is a UK—or English, in this case—Government responsibility. We can carry it out and make changes that will advantage my hon. Friend’s fishermen and, I hope, not disadvantage others. The Commission paper offers opportunities to rebalance the industry where we feel it is necessary, without disadvantaging either side, through market mechanisms that will see the transfer of fishing opportunity between willing buyer and willing seller in a direction that fishermen in her constituency will find very attractive.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

I welcome Commissioner Damanaki’s proposals and ask the Minister to confirm that he will support the proposal to establish a legal obligation to set fishing limits at sustainable levels by 2015. On the question of discards, the requirement to land all catch of specified species and the catch limits will effectively act as a ban on discarding the species most commonly associated with the problem, but will not tackle the problem for all the species. Notwithstanding the comments made by my hon. Friend the Member for Great Grimsby (Austin Mitchell), the Minister will know that if we are to assess stock levels and to obtain the scientific data that we need to consider on an ecosystems basis, that is the only way of achieving the legal—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman.

[Richard Benyon]

I know that the hon. Gentleman will be pleased to see the words “ecosystem approach” at the heart of the document and he is right to have pushed for that. We are committed to fishing to a maximum sustainable yield by 2015. Many people talk about that as though it is the great nirvana of fisheries management but many people do not understand what maximum sustainable yield actually means. People talk about it as a line or a bandwidth and many people do not understand its implications for a mixed fishery. The Government made that commitment in Johannesburg and it fits in with our move towards good environmental status in 2020. Those commitments are solid. The hon. Gentleman also mentioned discards. He is right that many species are discarded, as I said, because there is no market for them. Markets are being developed through good work being done by DEFRA as well as retailers and celebrity chefs and we will make sure that we extend that—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We are grateful.

[Neil Parish (Tiverton and Honiton) (Con)]

I spent 10 years listening to warm words from the European Commission. May I urge the Minister to take as much unilateral action as possible, first, to ban discards from our 12-mile limits, at the very least, and to use that fish efficiently both to eat and to process for fish farms and, secondly, to look after sea anglers and the under-10-metre fleet? We can do much more as a nation; let us lead by example and take the rest of the European countries with us.

[Richard Benyon]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend and I recognise his experience and the cynicism born out of his many years on the other side of the channel. I assure him that I will do all that. I want to ensure that Britain continues to be at the forefront of calling for radical reform and I am concerned with outcomes, not warm words. I am sure there will be plenty of warm words, but the proof will be found in what my fellow Ministers do. Co-decision among his erstwhile colleagues in the European Parliament is now really important.

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

I agree with the Minister that one of the more welcome aspects of what the Commission has said is the move towards longer-term arrangements. Does he share my concern that without a parallel move to local management such arrangements will not solve the problems inherent in the CFP?

[Richard Benyon]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right and that is one of the problems with the cod recovery plan. We want to see a much more localised management of the long-term management plans. I like long-term management plans because to an extent, although not totally, they take power away from politicians. The frankly ridiculous process we go through every December will become less of a horse-trading event if plans are written into a solid long-term process. That is why I am pleased to see this development in the document and that the Government’s firm views on this matter have been listened to.

[Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con)]

I commend the commissioner for her statement and the Minister for his hard work on this subject. There are two scandals with how fisheries are managed in Europe: discards, which are now out in the open; and slipper skippers, that is, people who hold and trade quota and have no connection with the industry. What is he doing to address that elephant in the room?

[Richard Benyon]

I thank my hon. Friend for raising that issue. I share his concern and with many issues relating to fisheries I always start by thinking, “I would not have started from here.” We have these so-called slipper skippers—although we do not have quite as many as are sometimes declared—because many of the trades of fishing opportunity were done privately. We have never created a clear right; we have created a deemed right of access to a national resource. That is why I hope that a rights-based management scheme, as I have outlined, will offer the opportunity for clarity. I believe the work we are doing in DEFRA and through the Marine Management Organisation to identify who owns quota will go a long way towards dealing with the urban—or aqua—myths about quota being held by football clubs and celebrities.

[Kelvin Hopkins (Luton North) (Lab)]

The CFP has been an unmitigated disaster and during my 14 years in this Chamber I have called many times for its abolition and for Britain either to seek its abolition or to give notice that at some point we will withdraw from it and reclaim our 200-mile historic fishing limits. Will the Minister keep that possibility open in any negotiations?

[Richard Benyon]

My priority, as I have said to the hon. Gentleman before, is to deal with an industry in crisis. I could spend all my energies trying to unpick treaties and this House might collectively decide to do that at some point in the future, but we are dealing with an industry with genuine problems that are affecting coastal towns socially through jobs, people’s livelihoods and processing industries as well as affecting our food security. That is why I want to put all my efforts into trying to get the right result out of these negotiations. I hope I have the support of the House in doing that.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

The proposals are very welcome, but does the Minister agree that given the finite nature of the European maritime fisheries fund, they will work only if he is able to convince British consumers to develop a taste for those species that are discarded? Notwithstanding his comments about Jamie Oliver, how does he propose to do that?

[Richard Benyon]

I refer my hon. Friend to the Fishing for the Markets scheme, which I mentioned earlier and is trying to do precisely that. It is trying to create new supply chain mechanisms for various species as well as to give us a more eclectic taste in the fish we eat. We basically eat five species of fish in this country and in Spain, I think, they eat 20 or 30. I urge my hon. Friend and other colleagues to start eating dab, coley, gurnard and other species that are thrown away much too readily and are absolutely delicious.

[Mr Frank Doran (Aberdeen North) (Lab)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for South East Cornwall (Sheryll Murray) on securing the urgent question. It is good to hear such all-party support in the Chamber for the position being taken by the Minister. That is extremely important. However, he will be aware that the industry feels very strongly that what we are seeing is basically a framework with a few headline-grabbing statements but not a lot of substance. There is a considerable amount of work to do. Given that we did not have a proper fisheries debate last year, will he ensure that this year we have a proper, full day’s debate so that this crucial issue can be properly discussed?

[Richard Benyon]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his work through the all-party group; he is very much respected in the House for his views on this issue. We had a four-hour debate on discards and working towards maximum sustainable yield not long ago. I share his disappointment that the annual fisheries debate was moved to Westminster Hall; I hope that this year it will take place in the Chamber and that we will have a full day’s debate.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

By any objective measure, the common fisheries policy has been a complete and utter disaster for British fishermen and British consumers, not to mention the fact that it has not been too good for fish stocks. Could the Minister please inform the House what benefits for Britain, if any, he thinks there have been from the policy?

--- Later in debate ---

[Richard Benyon]

I cannot. I share my hon. Friend’s view that the common fisheries policy has been a failure on every level. He rightly points out that there are fewer fishermen and fewer fish. However, we have to recognise that fish move between national boundaries and I hope he will agree that we should operate on an ecosystem basis, looking at the full extent of where fish move in a passport-free, Schengen-agreement type way. We can adapt our fishing policies to how fish behave.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for his response to the urgent question. The common fisheries policy has galvanised all the fishing industry in Northern Ireland to oppose it. This morning, we perhaps have an opportunity to get things right for the future. The Minister mentioned regionalisation. Could he enlighten us further on how he sees that happening? Will control in Northern Ireland be with local representatives in the Northern Ireland Assembly or will it be with the villages as well? He has not mentioned decommissioning. With regionalisation, will there be decommissioning? If so, will it ensure that the fishing industry is sustainable in future?

[Richard Benyon]

There has been no word of decommissioning per se in the document, but I recognise that it might be required in some areas by some fishing communities as a possible way forward. At this stage, I cannot promise any money from the UK Government or suggest that it could be forthcoming from the EU, but I assure the hon. Gentleman that when we talk about localised, regionalised or devolved management, I want to see much more involvement from fishermen in communities such as his. I want this to be addressed on a sea-basin basis, with consideration of where fishermen are fishing. The regional advisory councils have been a very good model for this and I believe that is the way forward.

[Mr Peter Bone (Wellingborough) (Con)]

It is hard to believe that the Minister believes the twaddle he has been talking today. The common fisheries policy has been an unmitigated disaster and the British people want to come out of the European Union—would not that be the simple solution?

[Richard Benyon]

That is not really on the subject and is slightly above my pay grade, but I agree that the common fisheries policy has been an unmitigated disaster.

[Gregg McClymont (Cumbernauld, Kilsyth and Kirkintilloch East) (Lab)]

The European Commission’s proposals will ban the discard of quota fish only, but many discards are non-quota, as the Minister will be aware. Do the Government propose a total ban on discards or not?

[Richard Benyon]

We want to work with the industry to achieve an end to discards, which means looking at the whole range of species that are discarded. I was on a trawler last week watching perfectly edible fish being thrown into the sea. I know what an affront that is to us, and the great British public are outraged by it. We have to make sure that we follow this up and do not simply follow the letter of the document. The good work being done by DEFRA and partners in our Fishing for the Markets project and other schemes really makes a difference. I think we can get there.

[Amber Rudd (Hastings and Rye) (Con)]

The Minister has spoken cautiously about the need to navigate through the different interests within the fisheries group. Does he nevertheless recognise that in the past 20 years the massive benefit of the tradeable quota has largely been with the producer organisations—the larger fisheries? Can he assure us that there will be emphasis during all negotiations on ensuring that the under-10-metre fisheries are restored to their former glory?

[Richard Benyon]

My hon. Friend, like many Members of the House, is very good at standing up for fishing interests in her constituency. I assure her and them that my commitment to getting a better deal for the under-10-metre fleet remains absolutely solid. I am grateful for the work that she and fishermen in her constituency, as well as the New Under Ten Fishermen’s Association and other organisations have been doing to make consultation become a reality. Let me reassure her that I want a better deal for our inshore fleet, which largely fishes sustainably and needs better fishing opportunities.

[Tony Lloyd (Manchester Central) (Lab)]

May I return to the important point raised by the hon. Member for Banbury (Tony Baldry) earlier? The problem of overfishing is global and threatens life in the oceans as a whole. This is urgent: will the Minister give a commitment that the British Government will use the opportunity presented by this review of the common fisheries policy to internationalise this process and to make sure there is investment in the real scientific research this problem needs?

[Richard Benyon]

On the latter point, absolutely. Science has not been mentioned this morning, but it is very important that we develop a much closer working relationship between scientists and fishermen and that our scientific understanding of fish stocks is improved. I am very pleased to see in the document a commitment to address fisheries partnership agreements and the impact they could have on seas and ecosystems beyond EU borders. I think we should all be concerned if our taxpayers’ money is going in benign or actual subsidies to fishing practices at home or abroad that are hugely damaging not only to the marine environment but to the societies that the marine environment should be supporting.

[David Rutley (Macclesfield) (Con)]

Having worked at the Ministry of Agriculture, Fisheries and Food during the so-called tuna wars of the mid-1990s, I am keen to ask my hon. Friend what focus will be given to monitoring the practices of foreign fishing vessels under any future CFP regime.

[Richard Benyon]

The good news is that there is much better technology now. I have sat in the operations room of the Marine Management Organisation looking at vessel monitoring systems data on where every vessel is. One can tell precisely what those vessels are doing, and that is improving with e-log books. I went out with a Fishery Protection Squadron patrol the other day and saw the work it does, and I was really impressed by its professionalism. I can give my hon. Friend a commitment that we will work extremely hard to continue to be experts in what we do. We are respected throughout the world for our work on monitoring fisheries, and technology is on our side.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

The Minister will be aware of concerns that the proposals might allow an international trade in quotas to result in Scottish fishermen’s not being able to fish in Scottish waters. Will he find time to meet me and other MPs to discuss this matter during the consultation?

[Richard Benyon]

I would like to meet hon. Members from both sides of the House during this process and to keep up a regular dialogue. I think there are misunderstandings about the possibility of creating a market mechanism in tradeable quotas. I want to make sure that they are retained in member states, that there is no possibility that more fishing opportunity can be grabbed by fewer and fewer people and that there is a social dimension to our fisheries policy. I want to try to get UK-wide agreement on this.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

From 2013, when the new regulations come in, would it be possible for some very clever people, perhaps in DEFRA, to design a system so that fish discards are distributed to charity, perhaps at home or even abroad?

[Richard Benyon]

The commissioner mentioned that as part of the process; there are mechanisms within the common fisheries policy and common agricultural policy to do that but they are a bit bureaucratic and are not very successful. I agree that it is an affront in a hungry world, when we know that people live in poverty in our own country, that perfectly edible, quality fish are being thrown away, dead. We want to create new supply chains that will address my hon. Friend’s concerns.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Is it not the case that my hon. Friend the Minister would be carried shoulder-high through the fishing villages and towns of Britain and up and down every high street in the land were he to announce the UK’s withdrawal from the common fisheries policy and the repatriation of British waters to British fishermen? That would be the best way of conserving fishing stocks and reviving our once-great fishing industry.

[Richard Benyon]

I assure my hon. Friend that I did not enter this job in any belief that it would make me popular, but I do seek to get a good result for British fishermen. I know and understand where he is coming from. These discussions will no doubt be had in our party and others in future, but we want to deal with the here and now and with the art of the possible, and I assure him of my commitment to that.

Flood Defences

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Wednesday 6th July 2011 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh) on securing this debate. On behalf of her constituents, she has raised the subject through every conceivable parliamentary mechanism, and I entirely understand why. I know that the matter is extremely important to her constituents. My hon. Friend was right to say that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has visited Pickering. She saw the project at first hand, and returned to the Department impressed with innovative ideas that involved a variety of mechanisms, particularly those that incorporated the natural environment as a flood alleviation and flood resilience asset. I note the presence of right hon. and hon. Members from other areas that face similar problems. The concept of holding back water is vital to a variety of communities and we want to ensure that our legislation supports common sense and is governed by proportionate rules.

[Mr Andrew Smith]

Will the Minister give way?

[Richard Benyon]

My hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton asked a number of questions, and I shall answer some of them before allowing others to intervene. She has submitted some written questions, and she will receive a reply in the next day or so. Today, she asked a question about the number of people who live below a reservoir risk. I understand that it is not 10 properties; the definition of a community in this instance is considered to be not less than about 10 persons who could be affected by a disastrous breach as a result of the under-provision of spillway capacity. That is the crux of the issue. The independent assessment said that the reservoir would require greater spillway capacity. To me and to other laymen, that does not sound a massive issue, but it increased the cost of the project way beyond what was possible.

Certain questions float around, such as what is a bund, and what is a reservoir? A flood defence bund is an embankment designed to prevent flood-water flowing from a watercourse and flooding adjacent land. The water is held up and then released through a controlled mechanism. We have to be compliant with the Reservoir Act 1975, which my hon. Friend identifies as the villain of the piece.

My hon. Friend will be pleased to know that we are reviewing the guidance. I do not know whether she has seen a copy of it, but I have. It is thick and highly technical. She is right that the independent assessors from the Institution of Civil Engineers who make these judgments are singularly liable. Once the asset is built, it will be the Government who are liable through the Environment Agency. At the moment, however, liability for the level of comfort that has to be achieved rests with individuals, so they want to get it right. There is undoubtedly an incentive for them to be precautionary, but the Government have to ensure that, in our desperate desire to see comfort given to communities such as Pickering, we do not rush measures through that in years to come, with the climate changing as we know it is, may pose catastrophic risks for many people.

[Mr Andrew Smith]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way. Given that this was a pilot project of national significance designed to find out what could be achieved through land management to reduce flooding—an issue of concern in many parts of the country, including my constituency—what implications will the shortcomings that the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Miss McIntosh) rightly identified have for the evaluation of the pilot for other areas?

[Richard Benyon]

That is a key point, and I will come on to talk about how we are reviewing the situation, principally in Pickering, and the implications that it will have for other areas.

The Environment Agency is responsible for technical judgments on flow rates and volumes. The Institution of Civil Engineers is the expert, and it is vital that we have such organisations. The Environment Agency has assessed with the panel engineer the volume of water that needs to be stored. My hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton made a point about powers that I may or may not have to do with variation. Under the Flood and Water Management Act 2010, the threshold has been reduced from 25,000 to 10,000 cubic metres. That is the area in which Ministers can apply variation, depending on the circumstances. However, that element of the Act has yet to be formally adopted. When it is, that variation will be in the power of Ministers. Under the current scheme, the Secretary of State and I do not have the power to vary the rates.

[Miss McIntosh]

I am delighted to be able to help my hon. Friend on that point; someone in the Institution of Civil Engineers has put it to me that that might be suitable for Ministers, but not under the 2010 Act. Its provisions and the reduction in rates caused shockwaves in golf clubs and farms. Those reductions have huge implications for future reservoir building, but that is not the purpose of the debate today. Under the 1998 guidance to the Reservoirs Act 1975, the Minister has the power to make an order proposing the scheme in Pickering. We have to balance removing the risk of river flooding with the slight risk caused by the presence of a reservoir upstream to the communities at Newbridge. He has the power; I urge him to use it before the House rises for the recess.

[Richard Benyon]

I recognise the point that my hon. Friend makes and it is now on the record. My officials and I will look carefully at it. However, that is not the information that I had when preparing for this debate, so I will take that point away and get back to her.

Let us look at the case that my hon. Friend raises, because it is important to understand the history. I apologise to other hon. Members who might wish to intervene, but I have only a few moments left. My hon. Friend called this debate and I want to be able to answer her points. Last September, an independent reservoir engineer was appointed to assess the proposals in the context of the Reservoirs Act 1975. The Act is designed to ensure that public safety is maintained. The engineer acted in accordance with guidance produced by the Institution of Civil Engineers. At that stage, the engineer identified the reservoir as a category A reservoir. That classification means that a breach of what could be an 85,000 cubic metre reservoir could seriously endanger a community—we have already discussed what constitutes a community. As a result, it is only right that the highest standards of public safety apply. At best, a failure would increase the level of flood-water, thus defeating the purpose of the scheme. At worst, a catastrophic failure would result in human tragedy. The engineer agreed necessary design standards that should apply in this case to maintain public safety.

In March, new modelling led the engineer to conclude that a higher design standard was necessary. In May, a second opinion was sought, again from an independent reservoir engineer. The second opinion confirmed that the Institution of Civil Engineers guidance on the 1975 Act had been correctly applied and that a higher standard was needed. That led to a redesign that incorporated the higher design standard of the spillway, to which we referred earlier. Inevitably, that pushed up costs. Despite the significant local investment already on the table, the shortfall in funding amounted to around £2 million. Frustratingly, at that level of cost, the scheme is not cost-beneficial under the Treasury Green Book rules. It is not my view that the guidance is wrong. That said, the case does underline the sense in reviewing the guidance. That is a firm assurance that I can give to my hon. Friend today. A review on highly technical guidance—I have already referred to the complexity of the document—is not a quick fix, and will require broad engagement. In the mean time, I welcome efforts to reassess these proposals.

The reservoir is clearly an important part of the plans for the area. That said, I know that many of the innovative approaches that my hon. Friend has described are continuing in parallel. It may well be that we can fairly quickly achieve a different scheme that complies with the Reservoirs Act 1975 and has a sensible cost frame and a sensible cost-benefit analysis result. All the work going into reviewing the guidance will not affect the implementation of the Flood and Water Management Act 2010. If it does, Ministers will have the power to apply other criteria to assess whether, on the balance of risk, it is right that these schemes should go ahead even with the lower threshold.

The reservoir is clearly an important part of the plans for the area, so I genuinely applaud the real openness and innovation. There has been engagement with the local authorities, local landowners and many other partners, and leadership from my hon. Friend.

The Environment Agency and local partners are working hard to reassess the designs and to drive down costs. Other options that were originally put forward are also being discussed. Once consideration is complete—I expect that to be at the end of July—the agency is eager to continue working with local partners to explore what can be done while maintaining public safety.

[Anne Marie Morris (Newton Abbot) (Con)]

I am sure that the Minister will listen carefully in this case, as he did when he enabled me to have a flood scheme in Teignmouth, for which I am extremely grateful.

[Richard Benyon]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for coming to this debate; not all hon. Members come to debates to give a thumbs up. The difficulty with flood defences is that we only know that they work when issues are not raised because problems have been resolved. I know that the issue is a burden for the constituents of my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton, the right hon. Member for Oxford East (Mr Smith) and the hon. Member for Wansbeck (Ian Lavery). There are serious problems affecting communities around the country. We are changing the way in which we approach flood funding.

[Ian Lavery (Wansbeck) (Lab)]

rose—

[Richard Benyon]

If the hon. Gentleman’s intervention will take no more than two seconds, I will give way.

[Ian Lavery]

My point relates to the potential delays. We now have funding from Northumberland county council, as well as the Environment Agency. Will the Minister see whether we can progress the Morpeth flood alleviation scheme as a matter of urgency?

[Richard Benyon]

I can assure the hon. Gentleman that the scheme is being progressed as a matter of urgency, following meetings on the subject, and thanks to the forceful way in which he puts his case—as does my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton. There are no national secrets here. There is no impediment other than the need to find a sensible way forward that can be afforded. As my hon. Friend rightly points out, her local authority—and that of the hon. Member for Wansbeck—has put forward some more money to ensure that the scheme can operate. I will go through any proposal that my hon. Friend the Member for Thirsk and Malton brings forward. We will consider all the points that she has made and ensure that the absolute powers of the Minister are understood. If we can make a difference at this stage, prior to the change in the guidance, we will make it, but my understanding is that that will require the implementation of an element of the Flood and Water Management Act 2010, which we are keen to see taken forward.

My hon. Friend says she wants a result before Parliament rises for the recess; she wants to be able to give her constituents the assurances that they need. I can promise her that I will give every assurance that I am able to give. I will work with officials and local people in her constituency to ensure that we achieve the result that they all want, which is a lifting of the burden of the threat of flooding from their lives.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Thursday 30th June 2011 Commons Chamber

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

3. Whether she plans to introduce pilot projects to evaluate biodiversity offsets.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

In the natural environment White Paper, we announced that we will establish a voluntary approach to biodiversity offsetting and test it in a number of pilot areas. We want local authorities to express an interest in taking part in the pilot, and to hear from developers, conservation and community groups and others who want to test offsetting.

[Kerry McCarthy]

In an earlier reply the Secretary of State referred to section 106 agreements. In Bristol there has been a scandalous failure to enforce section 106 agreements, and hundreds of thousands of pounds have not been spent on the projects they should have been spent on. When the Minister evaluates the pilots, will he ensure that new biodiversity schemes are actually realised?

[Richard Benyon]

I can give the hon. Lady that assurance. That is one of the attractions of this scheme, and is why it works well in other areas. We want to dovetail it into our planning system because it offers clarity. She is right to point out that section 106 negotiations can sometimes be a bit of a horse-trading operation and can result, in certain circumstances, in token biodiversity protection activities. This scheme offers a clear, understandable, auditable, accountable system. We are delighted by the response from a number of local authorities through the consultation process. More are now coming forward since the natural environment White Paper was published, as are developers. I hope that in the coming months we will be able to give her the assurance that she needs.

[Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

There is, of course, an excellent pilot project that will bring enormous biodiversity benefits to Pickering, in the form of the slow-the-flow flood defence scheme. Will the Minister assure me that the guidance regulations under the Reservoirs Act 1975, which are preventing that project from going ahead, will be swept away?

[Richard Benyon]

I have just won my bet that my hon. Friend would raise that issue, and she is entirely right to do so. I share her concerns about the application of the Reservoirs Act and its implications for Pickering. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has visited the site. We want to do all we can to ensure that the scheme goes ahead, because we think that it is a good example of how biodiversity, slowing up water, and flood protection can fit together in many areas. We want her constituents to know that the Government will look into any means possible to ensure that such schemes go ahead.

[Natascha Engel (North East Derbyshire) (Lab)]

5. What recent discussions she has had with representatives of supermarket retail chains on the effects of pricing on the pig industry.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

In April 2012, the Government plan to move British Waterways from the public sector to civil society, through the creation of a new waterways charity. This will give waterways users and the communities that live alongside them greater involvement in how waterways are managed, leading to a range of enhanced public benefits. It will also place the waterways on a more sustainable footing, as the charity will have access to new sources of commercial and charitable income.

[Mary Macleod]

We have more than 2,000 miles of rivers and inland waterways, including the Grand Union canal in Brentford in my constituency. Does my hon. Friend agree that the announcement of the proposed merger between the Waterways Trust and the new waterways charity will provide a good opportunity to boost the value of those national assets?

[Richard Benyon]

I am delighted to welcome the announcement of the merger that my hon. Friend describes. It will allow the cultural and heritage purposes of the new waterways charity to be fundamentally linked with all the other benefits arising from creating the new entity. The three museums that the waterways charity now owns will become part of the new charity, and will be a fantastic resource for it in future.

[Sajid Javid (Bromsgrove) (Con)]

9. What progress she has made in reducing the burden of regulation on farmers; and if she will make a statement.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

As UK Fisheries Minister, I have had discussions with a range of people about common fisheries policy reform. These include the EU Commission, Members of the European Parliament and other member states. I continue to encourage fellow Ministers to support radical reform, most recently during this week’s Fisheries Council. I will continue to press our case for reform as negotiations develop over the next year.

[Tom Greatrex]

I am grateful for the Minister’s response. I am aware that the mackerel quota was discussed at the meeting earlier this week. Is the Minister aware of the widespread exasperation at the fact that in her comments afterwards, the Commissioner confirmed that no action would even begin to be taken until at least October—a full 18 months after the arbitrary action that caused the problem in the first place? There is now very real concern that this will have an impact not just on the sustainability of stocks but on the livelihood of fishing fleets. Will the hon. Gentleman urge his European partners to take action more quickly?

[Richard Benyon]

The hon. Gentleman is right to raise this matter; it is our most pressing problem, and our most valuable stock is at risk of crashing—probably within 18 months to two years—if the gross overfishing announced by the Faroes and Iceland goes ahead. I moved the issue forward at this week’s meeting by seeking to raise it to a political level. It has been dealt with by the Commission and by officials, but I believe it will take Ministers from the countries concerned to look each other in the eye and sit round a table, perhaps with an independent chairman, to negotiate. I do not care where we meet, but we have got to move this forward quickly. That is the proposal I made at the meeting, and I have followed it up with a letter. We made a number of other suggestions that highlight the urgency of this problem.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

I would be grateful if the Minister were prepared to meet a delegation of fishermen from my constituency who are concerned about the Government’s proposals for the inshore fishery, as the consultation on that closes today. They are particularly concerned about what I suspect will be the unintended consequences that will be detrimental to this low-impact and sustainable sector.

[Richard Benyon]

I would be delighted to meet representatives of the hon. Gentleman’s local fishing community. The consultation on the under-10-metre sector, which, as he says, closes today, sought to find a solution to the level of perceived unfairness—I acknowledge it—that applies to this sector. I want to find a way forward that gives this sector more fishing opportunities and allows the local communities to invest in their local fleets, because we understand the social implications of the decline of the fishing industry in many places. I am not in the business of making life more difficult for any particular sector, and I want to ensure that this consultation feeds on the many enthusiasms we have encountered, while also setting to rest many of the fears expressed.

[Mr Nigel Dodds (Belfast North) (DUP)]

The European Commission is due to publish next month the new legislative text on the reform of the common fisheries policy. The best thing, of course, would be to abolish that dreadful policy altogether, but short of that, what specific actions have the Government urged on the Commission on regionalisation of the policy?

[Richard Benyon]

The right hon. Gentleman is right; we expect the paper to be published on 13 July and we will debate it at the next Council meeting on 19 July. We pushed very hard for regionalisation. He is absolutely right to say that the system is ludicrous. One of the many failures of the common fisheries policy is that factors such as net sizes are decided in Brussels, whereas they should be decided at least on a sea basin basis, if not at member state level. We are still pushing hard for regionalisation. There are counter-arguments about the legality and what other countries want, but I can assure the right hon. Gentleman that we are really pushing for this, as we believe it to be an important way forward.

[Harriett Baldwin (West Worcestershire) (Con)]

12. What recent assessment she has made of the spread of bovine tuberculosis in wildlife in the West Worcestershire constituency; and if she will make a statement.

--- Later in debate ---

[Dr Thérèse Coffey (Suffolk Coastal) (Con)]

T4. The Minister has already given a response on the inshore fishing consultation, but will he give my under-10-metres fishermen the assurance that all the responses will be carefully considered, including concerns about the suggested structure and the fact that there will still be people with quotas who no longer fish and have not done so for many years?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

Yes, I can give my hon. Friend the assurance that we will look at every response very carefully. We have had about 20 meetings around the coast, which were very well attended, and many of the areas of consultation were explained to the audience in such a way as to allay their fears. As I said to my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George), we want to make life better for the under-10s and give them a more sustainable future.

[Angela Smith (Penistone and Stocksbridge) (Lab)]

Only two weeks ago, a gamekeeper was convicted for illegally killing birds of prey in my constituency. Is it not time to think about introducing a vicarious liability offence to ensure that landowners and estate managers supervise their gamekeepers more closely and more effectively?

[Richard Benyon]

There are very good laws in place to punish the illegal killing of any animal. If they are not being enforced, they must be and we will take steps to make sure that happens. However, this is also a good opportunity to applaud gamekeepers for the wonderful work they do in providing excellent biodiversity across our countryside.

[George Eustice (Camborne and Redruth) (Con)]

T5. Further to the earlier answer to the hon. Member for North East Derbyshire (Natascha Engel) about the groceries adjudicator, the Minister will be aware that the proposal enjoys widespread support in the farming industry, but there are concerns that farmers will be reluctant to volunteer information for fear of reprisals. Does the Minister agree that trade bodies such as the National Farmers Union must do their bit by collating and publishing information from their members, to help guide the supermarket adjudicator to the right target and identify bad practice?

--- Later in debate ---

[Greg Hands (Chelsea and Fulham) (Con)]

T8. Thames Water’s chief executive said last week that the previous costing of £3.6 billion for the Thames tideway tunnel was “simply an indicative 2008 price”that would “inevitably increase”. The Minister will know that under the existing pricing, Thames Water bill payers throughout the region will each have to pay £65 per annum in perpetuity for the tunnel. Will he assure me and 142 other Members of this House that our constituents will get value for money for this project?

[Richard Benyon]

I can—and I am one of them. I can assure my hon. Friend that my constituents and his are absolutely in our minds. We meet weekly with officials from Ofwat and Thames Water, the issue will be discussed at the DEFRA supervisory board this afternoon and I shall meet the London boroughs and the Greater London authority next week to discuss the project. I can assure my hon. Friend that its price is foremost in our minds.

The hon. Member for Banbury, representing the Church Commissioners, was asked—

Waste Reduction

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Wednesday 18th May 2011 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Crausby. I congratulate the hon. Member for Arfon (Hywel Williams) on securing such an important debate.

The Government are reviewing all aspects of waste policy and delivery in England, including how we can encourage waste prevention and reuse. The review’s findings will be published in June. As waste is a devolved issue, the review focuses on England only, but I can reassure the hon. Gentleman that my officials meet regularly with those from the Welsh Administration and other devolved Administrations to learn about experiences elsewhere. I congratulate him on the good case studies he shared with us today of Welsh local authorities that are achieving fantastic results for recycling, and in other environmental areas. We can learn from those and from the good case studies in England. What is important is that we are all keen to prevent waste where we can.

The hon. Gentleman talked about the hideous spectacle of recyclates being placed on ships to China, and I entirely understand where he is coming from, but the first thing we need to consider when we think about that is that it is better that that is happening than that they are buried. If recyclable material can be constructed into something useful, there is a business opportunity, and to make recycling work, we need business opportunities. We obviously want to reduce the number of recycling miles, but it is not an entirely bad story if we are exporting materials that get used, and those materials fit in with the import-export structure of our shipping industry. There are new approaches to business waste, which will come out in the review. There is also a lot of good news on the co-responsibility deals the hon. Gentleman discussed.

The hon. Member for Hayes and Harlington (John McDonnell) mentioned that it is real nappy week. I would like to be able to stand in front of the House and say that I, as a father of five, was entirely virtuous and forced my poor wife—wives, if I am being perfectly honest—to use terry nappies, but I did not. I believe that I played my part in that function of parenting, but both wives would probably disagree. Nevertheless, we must ask ourselves whether we want to impose reusable nappies on future generations of parents. I think that the point made by the hon. Members for Arfon and for Hayes and Harlington is that this is a question of education and incentives.

Of course, reusing nappies is not a total-sum game. If we managed to persuade many more parents to reuse nappies, there would be increased use of water and possibly increased use of non-biological washing powders. So, it is not a total-sum game. Nevertheless, it is much better than burying large amounts of disposable nappies, which of course contain chemicals.

I want to give the hon. Member for Arfon an absolute assurance about what we mean by zero waste. Zero waste does not mean that no waste exists—we are all realists. It means a society where resources are fully valued, financially and environmentally. One person’s waste is another person’s resource. Nothing is actually wasted over time; we get as close as we can to zero landfill; and there is a new public consciousness about waste. That is how we define zero waste.

On the subject of nappies, it is also worth considering the work that the Government are doing with the clothing sector. In the UK, we buy some 2 million tonnes of clothing a year. That has a huge impact on our environment right through the supply chain—from production to the end of a product’s life. We discard 1 million tonnes of unwanted clothing a year; 50% of it ends up in landfill and only 24% is reused or recycled. The clothing sector in the UK produces about 3.1 million tonnes of carbon dioxide, about 1 million tonnes of waste and 70 million tonnes of waste water. However, those sums are minimal compared with the impact of the clothing sector overseas, where 90% of the clothing that the UK consumes comes from. When we talk about waste, it is important that we understand the breadth of what we are dealing with.

The hon. Members for Arfon and for Hayes and Harlington both mentioned incineration, as did the hon. Member for Copeland (Mr Reed), who said that he wants a very clear statement about how incineration fits in with our waste policy. That will be clearly defined in the waste review; that is its purpose. However, I can say today that incineration is part of the mix and part of the waste hierarchy, as all hon. Members will know well.

The question a lot of people ask about incineration is on the public health aspect. I can tell the hon. Member for Copeland that in 2009 the Health Protection Agency reviewed the scientific evidence of the health effects of modern municipal waste incinerators. I want to emphasise the word “modern”, because there have been problems in the past with incinerators. The HPA’s report on incinerators is available on its website. It concluded that although it is not possible to rule out completely any adverse health effects from incinerators, any potential damage from modern, well-run and highly regulated incinerators is likely to be so small as to be undetectable. I know that that will not make many of the protesters against incineration schemes go away quietly, and there are many other factors to be taken into consideration in siting an incinerator in a certain place. However, the fact remains that modern incinerators are highly regulated. They are not monitored monthly or weekly, but all the time. The Environment Agency is extremely strict in ensuring they are safe. One incinerator recently opened in Sheffield, and another in Bristol. They are a very important part of how we deal with waste, in a society that simply cannot afford to bury it any longer.

We have made great progress in this country in increasing recycling rates, but the best thing we can do with waste is to prevent its arising in the first place. In accordance with the waste hierarchy we have just discussed, and which is now enshrined in UK law, preventing waste helps individuals, businesses and local authorities to save money. It helps us to conserve scarce natural resources and it reduces damage to the environment. Through our waste review, we have engaged widely with individuals, communities and businesses, and we have received more than 300 responses to our call for evidence. Many of those who responded supported our view that we need to focus more on preventing waste from occurring in the first place. Waste prevention covers many types of activities and behaviours. It means improving production efficiencies in business; designing products so they work efficiently and last for as long as possible; repairing products when they are broken; reusing products to give them a second life; and not buying products we do not need.

The Government cannot deal with waste prevention alone. The public, private and voluntary sectors need to work together to make it easy for people to do the right thing. A great example of that is the existing work on food waste prevention. Food is a valuable resource. Every tonne of food that ends up in landfill damages the environment by producing the equivalent of four tonnes of CO₂. UK households throw away more than 8 million tonnes of food every year, most of which could have been eaten. Preventing that food waste could save the average family £680 a year.

The “Love Food Hate Waste” campaign is run by the Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs’ delivery body, the Waste and Resources Action Programme in England. WRAP is working with businesses, householders, civil society groups and local authorities to reduce the amount of food wasted. More than 300 local authorities in England are running “Love Food Hate Waste” initiatives to help local residents buy the right amounts of food and to make the most of what they buy. I have seen such initiatives myself, working locally, and they are excellent schemes. Between 2007 and 2009, all these actions reduced food waste by more than 380,000 tonnes a year, saving consumers more than £860 million and preventing more than 1.6 million tonnes of CO₂ emissions a year.

We want to do even more to prevent waste by working with businesses and consumers. For example, WRAP has recently collaborated with Hovis to examine why consumers waste £1.1 billion of bread and bakery products each year, and to consider how manufacturers can help consumers to waste less of their products. Organisations such as FareShare, which is a social enterprise, also make an important contribution to preventing food waste. They work with industry to redistribute good quality surplus food that would have been wasted by giving it to people who might otherwise go hungry.

The Courtauld commitment, a voluntary initiative with retailers and manufacturers in the grocery sector, has also helped to reduce food waste. Phase 2, which was launched last year, aims to encourage further significant reductions in food waste. However, the Courtauld commitment is not only about food waste. It is a key contributor towards our efforts to reduce packaging waste and the carbon emissions associated with packaging production. Packaging makes up between 18% and 20% of household waste, and about 10% of commercial and industrial waste. Reducing packaging can have both economic and environmental benefits. By using only as much packaging as is necessary to protect goods, businesses can save money on raw materials and transport costs. Less packaging means that local authorities and businesses have less waste to deal with. For example, B&Q has just announced that it has swapped the cardboard packaging it used to use to transport kitchen components for a reusable packaging system. That has prevented 435 tonnes of cardboard waste and saved the company about £80,000 per year.

WRAP supports and encourages innovation in packaging design, with the aim of ensuring that packaging uses as little material as will do the job, and that it can be reused and recycled easily. We are looking not only at the packaging that surrounds products, but at the products themselves. We need to encourage companies to design products differently to avoid waste. Products need to last longer—to be upgradeable, repairable and reusable. Working with WRAP, we are helping organisations to develop new business models for a greener economy.

For example, under the sustainable clothing action plan I referred to earlier, more than 40 organisations are now taking voluntary action, including reducing production and packaging waste. If an unwanted item is still in good condition, it does not have to end up in landfill; it can be reused. Civil society organisations play a vital part in preventing waste through the reuse of goods. Charity shops and reuse organisations enable individuals to donate and buy items that other people no longer need, which provides social and environmental benefits. For example, the London Waste and Recycling Board is setting up a reuse network for the benefit of households across London.

There are lots of things that householders can do to prevent waste and to reuse products, but we know it is not always simple to do them. That is why the waste review will consider how we can make it easier for people to do the right thing.

The hon. Member for Copeland made a number of points, and I say just this: he is rapidly running out of ideas with which attack to this Government, because each time he does so we cut him off at the pass. He will have to eat his words about the greenest Government ever because, given the publication of the natural environment White Paper, the ecosystems assessment, the biodiversity plan and the many other documents— including the waste review, which has the environment absolutely at its heart—he sounds increasingly shrill in his rather weak attacks. It is simply not good enough to posit something utterly nonsensical to the House as if it were fact. He says that there are endless disputes between my Department and the Department for Communities and Local Government, and I can assure him that that is not the case. The two Departments are working together very closely—on a great many areas, including the Localism Bill, which is currently being debated in the House—and we have a good, sensible, hard-working relationship, which brings benefits both to the environment and to many other areas of our work.

I return to the important, and I hope bipartisan, issues that unite us. Waste prevention is not just for householders; it is for businesses to take action on too. More than 600 organisations have signed up to WRAP’s halving waste to landfill commitment for the construction industry. The signatories have committed to reducing the amount of waste they send to landfill, and they are well on track to halving it by the end of 2012.

With the help of the national industrial symbiosis programme, more companies are able to use other firms’ by-products as resources in their own businesses, diverting 35 million tonnes from landfill, eliminating 1.8 million tonnes of hazardous waste and saving businesses £780 million. We cannot afford to miss out on the opportunities offered by waste prevention, and we are working towards a waste prevention programme, which will be in place by the end of 2013 at the latest. We will set objectives to help us deliver economic growth while reducing waste and its negative impacts. We look forward to saying more when we have published our waste review. I can assure hon. Members that if I have not been able to answer their questions today, a cursory look through that comprehensive document, which will set forth before the House a strategy for the coming years, will do so.

Waste prevention can help us to make progress towards a greener, zero-waste economy. It conserves natural resources, reduces greenhouse gas emissions, and saves local authorities, businesses and householders money, and the waste prevention programme will help us to achieve those goals. The Government look forward to working in partnership with others to tackle this important agenda, and I urge hon. Members to look at the waste review when it is published and see the value of a proper strategic cross-government approach to this very important issue.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Thursday 12th May 2011 Commons Chamber

[Mr David Hanson (Delyn) (Lab)]

5. What recent discussions she has had with her EU counterparts on fish discards.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

Since the ministerial meeting I attended in Brussels on 1 March, discussions have progressed at official level. Officials attended an event on 3 May with other member states, industry representatives and other interested parties, where the discussion about a discard ban continued. I consider that any move towards a discard ban must be backed up by genuinely effective, enforceable and affordable measures, driving more selective behaviour towards reducing what is caught in the first place.

[Mr Hanson]

I am grateful to the Minister for his answer. He will certainly have my support and good wishes, and those of my Front-Bench team, in making progress on that particular action. When he does so, will he also raise with the European Union and with John West Foods Ltd that company’s performance on tuna discards and tuna fishing generally? Some 49,000 people have signed a Greenpeace petition calling for improvements in that performance, and John West remains the only retailer and producer not to have taken action in the United Kingdom.

[Richard Benyon]

I entirely understand the right hon. Gentleman’s point. It is worth applauding companies such as Princes that have moved over to line-caught tuna only. Many other multiples and supermarkets now sell only tuna that has been caught by sustainable means from sustainable stocks. I entirely endorse what the right hon. Gentleman said.

[Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

I congratulate the Minister on the negotiations about discards, which is a wholly unacceptable practice. The Commission seems to be moving towards a quota for 15 years. Will he spare a thought for the Coble fishermen in Filey who have no quota, want to fish cod at the moment, but are unable to do so under the current regime?

[Richard Benyon]

I understand my hon. Friend’s point. We have to work off track records and historical fishing effort. I understand the many concerns of fishermen in the non-quota areas. They want to be part of a reformed policy and I will certainly consult my hon. Friend and Members of all parties to make sure that we take forward a long-term policy that has sustainability at its heart.

[Dr Eilidh Whiteford (Banff and Buchan) (SNP)]

How will the Minister assess the success of the catch quota trials that have been going on in Scotland and England? Does he foresee an extension of that effort to tackle discards?

[Richard Benyon]

When I was in opposition, I visited the hon. Lady’s constituency and talked to fishermen who were very concerned about having cameras on their boats as part of this scheme. Those concerns have now, by and large, dissipated and fishermen across the country are joining similar schemes. We have signed a declaration with France, Germany and Denmark, saying that catch quotas should be at the heart of a reformed common fisheries policy. That is really good news. I applaud the fishermen in the hon. Lady’s constituency and elsewhere; there will be no cod discarded from boats fishing from her constituency in the catch quota scheme this year.

[Andrew George (St Ives) (LD)]

Is the Minister aware that the 200 fishermen in the Cornish mackerel handliners association have decided not to continue their certification with the Marine Stewardship Council because they judged that the costs clearly outweighed the benefits, particularly bearing in mind that the MSC appears to have become more business-led and supermarket-driven in its standards, allowing some high-impact trawler-based methods to achieve certification?

[Richard Benyon]

Marine Stewardship Council accreditation is a highly respected brand globally, and must remain so. We must do all we can to work with it to ensure that it does remain so. I was dismayed to hear recently about the decision of the handline fishermen in the hon. Gentleman’s constituency and I want all fishermen to try to get into accredited schemes like this one, which shows that they are not only fishing sustainably but accessing the market at a premium price. We want to make every effort to sustain the MRC accredited scheme.

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

6. What steps she is taking to support fishermen.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

Before I answer the question, I want to say that all Members are in awe of the hon. Lady’s courage in standing up for her constituents and the industry she loves so soon after the tragic loss of her husband

Fishermen are facing significant challenges, particularly in the English under-10 metre fleet. Forthcoming domestic and European reforms offer the opportunity fundamentally to change things and put the industry on a sustainable footing in the longer term. In the meantime, along with financial support available through the European Fisheries Fund, the Marine Management Organisation is working with industry effectively to manage the current system, to secure additional quota through swaps and to keep fisheries open as long as possible.

[Sheryll Murray]

I thank the Minister for those kind words.

I have a special interest in this subject as a custodian of an under-10 metre trawler. The impact assessment accompanying the consultation on the reform of fisheries management arrangements in England has not considered key sensitive assumptions. Will my hon. Friend test the sensitivities and risks for the impact of fixed quota allocations on under-10 metre vessels that, for various reasons, move between ports located in different ICES—International Council for the Exploration of the Sea—areas. Will he also assess the impact of fluctuations in fuel prices?

[Richard Benyon]

I think the law of unintended consequences is more prevalent in fisheries management than in anything else I have encountered. I want to make sure that our reforms for the under-10 metre sector work. That is why we developed a consultation, building on the sustainable access to inshore fisheries that was started by the last Government. I hope that we can put inshore fisheries on a sustainable footing. I will look at anything that stands in its way, so I will consult officials on what my hon. Friend has said and get back to her.

[Tom Greatrex (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab/Co-op)]

I am sure that the Minister will know of reports this morning about of the Commission’s proposals which are to be issued in July, referring to longer quota periods. I hope that he will use his good offices in the negotiations to ensure that no EU-wide conditions are applied that do not take account of local conditions and practices. It is important for the sustainability of fisheries throughout UK waters for local practices not to be disregarded.

[Richard Benyon]

I respect the hon. Gentleman’s knowledge of the issue. He is absolutely right. One of our problems in British waters is that we have, by and large, a very mixed fishery, and the top-down system management has not taken that into account. We are pushing for some form of at least sea-based and perhaps more local control and management of our fisheries. I agree with the hon. Gentleman that at the heart of a reformed fisheries policy is the need for local factors to be allowed to play a role, and that many of them should be controlled by member states or more locally to ensure that we have the right and most sustainable policies.

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

7. What steps she is taking to increase the level of access to Ministers and engagement with departmental decision making for farming and rural communities.

--- Later in debate ---

[George Freeman (Mid Norfolk) (Con)]

11. What discussions she has had with the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the effects on British farmers of planned EU changes to rates of duty on red diesel.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

The Secretary of State has not discussed this issue directly with the Chancellor, but officials have been in contact with the Treasury. The Commission’s proposals will not affect the ability of member states to set a lower duty on the off-road use of diesel as vehicle fuel. However, the UK does not support a mandatory pan-EU carbon tax, and nor does it support the Commission’s proposal, which would require 27 member states’ unanimous agreement before it could be adopted.

[George Freeman]

I thank the Minister for that reassuring answer. The EU draft proposal to remove the tax exemption on agricultural red diesel sent shockwaves through farming communities in my constituency and across British agriculture. After a decade in which the Labour party put up duty on red diesel four times, may I urge him to make the strongest representations across Whitehall and show that it is we on the Government Benches who are standing up for the rural economy?

[Richard Benyon]

My hon. Friend is to be applauded for standing up and campaigning on behalf of farmers in his constituency. They need to know that they have got a Government obsessed with keeping them competitive against a lot of international and domestic challenges. The Government recognise the value of farmers in producing food, protecting the environment and being the guardians of ecosystem services, and they now have a Government who are on their side.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

12. What recent discussions she has had with the Secretary of State for Business, Innovation and Skills on the environmental regulations considered for possible revocation under the red tape challenge.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Barclay (North East Cambridgeshire) (Con)]

T2. The Department has spent many millions of pounds buying up some of our best farmland next to the Ouse washes to provide extra habitat for birds. The Littleport and Downham internal drainage board has expressed grave concern at the increased flooding risk to homes and other farmland. This action undermines food security and is not a good use of public funds at a time of austerity. Will the Minister agree to meet me and a local delegation to discuss that, and will his Department now publish a detailed assessment of the costs associated with it so that we can assess it properly?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

The short answer is yes. Our policies have to balance nature conservation against our commitment to food security. I want to know how established schemes that have been running for many years are working, and the development of the scheme that my hon. Friend talks about dates back almost a decade. I want to make sure that we are getting things right, so I appreciate his raising that point.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Minister will know that children learn best when they are out of the classroom. Often they learn very well in the natural environment—in forests and wild places. The number of school visits is collapsing under the present Government. What is the Secretary of State doing with her Education counterpart to boost the number of trips that children make to the green environment?

[Richard Benyon]

If the hon. Gentleman can curtail his enthusiasm for a few weeks and wait to see what is in the natural environment White Paper, I think he will rejoice that this Government get outdoor learning. The Department is working very closely with my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Education and others, and is engaging with great visionaries such as Kate Humble and others for whom this is a passion, which we share.

[Stephen Gilbert (St Austell and Newquay) (LD)]

T3. Early this morning, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State committed to publishing the waste review in June. It is obviously going to be a landmark document for the United Kingdom, so will she commit to bringing it to the House for debate?

--- Later in debate ---

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

In the past, there has been exceptional pressure on the fishing industry at sea, which has spread to food production on land. In particular, the problems are coming from China, which is buying up a lot of food products. Has the Minister had discussions with Ministers in other regions, particularly the most recent Minister of Agriculture and Rural Development in Northern Ireland, to agree a strategy and policy to address that issue?

[Richard Benyon]

I look forward to building again the good relationship that I had with devolved Ministers from all kinds of different parties in the different parts of the United Kingdom to make sure that, particularly on fisheries and marine issues, we work as one and agree, as we did, on nearly everything so that we work towards sound policies on food security, conservation and protecting valuable ecosystems. I will continue to do so.

[Mr Speaker]

I am extremely grateful to the Minister. I am trying to help Back-Bench Members, but in topical questions we must have single, short, supplementary questions and short answers.