Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Thursday 21st November 2013 Commons Chamber

[George Eustice]

I absolutely agree. We need other member states to comply with the regulations, and we will raise the matter with the European Commission if we have concerns that they are not doing so. I stress, however, that there is a legally binding commitment for member states to fish sustainably. Regionalisation will mean that for the first time, groups of member states with a shared interest in a shared fishery will come together and come up with better decision making.

[Richard Benyon (Newbury) (Con)]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for his kind remarks. With a ban on discards, the roll-out of marine protected areas, a legally binding commitment to fish sustainably, the introduction of marine planning, and a whole range of other measures to ensure that our seas are sustainable, is this not a good time for those who are concerned about the health and sustainability of our seas?

[George Eustice]

My hon. Friend is right and I am delighted to continue the good work that he started in those areas. That shows the commitment of this Government to protecting and enhancing our marine environment.

Water Industry

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Tuesday 5th November 2013 Commons Chamber

[Charlie Elphicke]

My right hon. Friend makes an interesting point. The planning system obviously means that such things take time. It is certainly important to have more of a national planning framework, which has been discussed by some and is worth considering. The view of water professionals is that competition is important but, in terms of customer service, it does not necessarily reduce costs because the infrastructure represents about 90% of the cost base.

[Richard Benyon (Newbury) (Con)]

My hon. Friend will be aware that the Water Bill will make it easy for new entrants to do precisely what my right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood) suggested, by giving them access to a market that is currently denied them so that they can provide these infrastructure assets.

[Charlie Elphicke]

Indeed. That will be an important reform.

Let me move on to the reforms that are worth considering. First, we must consider whether it is possible to tackle the excess profits and excess returns seen over the last period and return that money to hard-working families in the next period, and to drive a fair and equitable settlement whereby investors can get appropriate returns but customers can get a better deal.

--- Later in debate ---

[Richard Benyon (Newbury) (Con)]

It is a great pleasure to take part in a debate from the Back Benches for the first time in a few years. This is an important subject and I apologise to those on both Front Benches for not being able to be here for the winding-up speeches, as I have a long-standing engagement that I have to attend.

I welcome the Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, my hon. Friend the Member for North Cornwall (Dan Rogerson), to his post. I told him in the Lobby the other night that I had three and a half years to get my head around the water industry. He has three and a half weeks before the Water Bill comes before the House, but he is a clever fellow and I am sure he will be more than a match for the job.

I hope this debate does not over-emphasise the negative and allows us to take a little pride, at least on the Conservative Benches, in what has been achieved in the water industry. I thought the only voice, upon deep consideration, really talking about renationalisation was dear old Len McCluskey—I sometimes wonder whether he is a stooge of Conservative central office—but I now see that there are others: it is a great pleasure to follow the right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras (Frank Dobson). I take great pride, however, in what was achieved by privatisation through good, strong political leadership. My right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (Mr Redwood) was part of the intellectual force behind privatisation. With people such as Nicholas Ridley and others, he led the debate—with, I have to say, the support of about 8% of the population. However, they drove though something that has delivered for customers. Twenty-two years down the road, I am the first to agree with my hon. Friends, and probably all Members, that the industry is long overdue a tweaking—in fact, more than a tweaking; a serious reform—but I shall explain later why I think the Government are getting it right and the part the House can play to protect the incomes of our householders, particularly those on low incomes.

Jonson Cox, the chairman of Ofwat, came into my office shortly after his appointment and said he was keen to ensure that the industry took more notice of customers’ needs. To summarise, I said: “Good. That is precisely what the Government hope you will do in this price review—more power to your elbow—but we want you to do much more. We want you not only to keep household bills down, but to keep investment up and ensure that water companies play their part in improving the environment.” We must accept, however, that sometimes those three things conflict.

[Frank Dobson]

When the hon. Gentleman was talking to the new boss of Ofwat, did he draw to his attention the marked reluctance of the water industry to pay the proper amount of tax, bearing it in mind that the aforesaid new boss of Ofwat, when he was at Anglian, made pretty sure it kept its tax liability to a minimum?

[Richard Benyon]

Like the right hon. Gentleman, I am keen that everybody pay the required tax, but I caution people who criticise capital allowances. If our water company were not exercising its rights under capital allowances, either investment would fall or our bills would rise, or both. There is sometimes a lack of basic economic understanding: tax deferred is not tax not paid; it has to be paid. In one respect, however, I entirely agree, and I am deeply uncomfortable with some practices in aspects of corporate Britain. Work needs to be done—and in fairness to the Government much has been done—to close loopholes.

We need to make the argument that investment in the industry keeps bills down. The right hon. Member for Holborn and St Pancras seems affronted by Chinese companies and sovereign wealth funds and investors from all parts of the world investing in our regulated sector. I am not affronted. I welcome it. It is the sign of a vibrant industry and one that we need to encourage. We need more investment if we are to deal with some of the Victorian—or at least Edwardian—infrastructure we are trying to replace. Under a nationalised industry, directors of water boards would sit outside the Treasury saying, “Please can we have some more money for investment?” Down the ages, Chancellors have said, “Certainly. Just get in the queue behind the NHS, pensioners and the welfare state, and if there are any scraps left, we will give them to you.”

We have seen an historic level of investment— £116 billion—and we want to see more. We also want to ensure that we keep the bills as low as possible. Supplying all the water that goes into households and treating all the sewage that comes out costs households an average of £1 a day, although I accept that there are wide discrepancies in price. As a percentage of our household expenditure, that might be quite small compared with energy costs and other items, but it is still a significant amount, and those in the lowest income decile in this country are, broadly speaking, in water poverty. We need to address that. There are huge challenges facing the industry, and I hope the Water Bill and the ongoing activities in the sector will tackle them.

The challenges include continuing to ensure investment to deal with leakage and other concerns, such as those expressed by my hon. Friend the Member for Broxbourne (Mr Walker), and to ensure that new infrastructure is built. We must also address the challenges of affordability and the credibility of the industry among its customers. An important matter for our constituents is that the companies address the question of resilience. They must be able to keep the water flowing from the taps in a time of changing climate.

In my short tenure as Minister with responsibility for these matters, I saw the worst drought for decades. We are the sixth largest economy in the world, but if we had had a third dry winter, towns in some of the most economically vibrant parts of the country would have faced the very real prospect of standpipes. That is unacceptable in this day and age. Large national events could have been affected. Indeed, the Olympics presented quite a worry at the time. We clearly need more investment to ensure that water continues to flow in areas that are prone to drought.

During that time, I also saw floods. We must not forget that the water companies’ role in managing sewerage systems is vital in protecting our constituents’ homes from flooding. There is also a need for continuing investment in that regard.

[Alec Shelbrooke]

I shall expand a little on my hon. Friend’s comments on the role of water companies in dealing with flooding when I speak later. Would he care to comment on how the water companies are often ignored when they tell developers that there is a flood risk in the area in which they are building? Does he agree that the water companies are often left to clear up the resulting mess, which puts pressure on their budgets?

[Richard Benyon]

My hon. Friend makes a good point. The Government are right to deal with the connection to private sewers, where many leakages have occurred. They, and the water companies, are also taking action in other areas to ensure that they are playing their part. Sometimes just a small investment can make a big difference to the flood risk in an entire street, for example. It is vital to ensure that the water companies are sitting down and talking to the flood forums and the local flood authorities to make sure that these issues are being addressed, but perhaps that is a wider issue for another debate.

The Water Bill will play a key part in addressing the challenges. The question of building new infrastructure and new reservoirs was raised earlier. The key reform to ensure that that happens, to secure the long-term sustainability of the industry and long-term benefits for our constituents, will involve enabling new entrants to come into the industry and provide new competition. The competition that will exist in the non-household sector must, in time, be introduced in the household sector as well, and I hope that that will be the long-term ambition in a forward-thinking political agenda. That would result in the kind of benefits for households that businesses will soon be able to achieve by switching supplier. The Bill should be seen only as work in progress, however.

One of this Government’s achievements of which I am most proud is the water White Paper. It might sound rather prosaic to say that I am proud of a document, but it set out some important provisions. It demonstrated that the Government were getting a grip on water policy. In the past, water policy had been created by all kinds of different organisations and bodies, not least the water companies themselves. In the White Paper, we demonstrated our determination that the Government should own the policy and that the regulators should regulate. We stated that, in a regulated sector, if the water companies functioned within meaningful regulation by the three regulators, we would have an industry of which we could be proud. The water White Paper was welcomed by customers’ groups, the industry, investors, green NGOs and all parts of the House, although I do not know whether that makes it a unique document, as the natural environment White Paper achieved much of the same.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

I seem to recall that the Select Committee, of which the former water Minister was a member, criticised the Government for not being ambitious enough. Is that not a fair recollection?

[Richard Benyon]

The Select Committee produced many good things with which I agree. If that is what it said at the time—I am afraid that many of my memories of the last three and a half years merge into one—I would probably not agree, because there was bold ambition in the water White Paper, which was reflected in many of the comments made about it by many different people.

[Julian Smith]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s work as a Minister. He is speaking passionately about the White Paper and the Water Bill, but does he agree that the financing of these companies still looks dodgy to many of our voters? I would appreciate it if he commented on that before he concludes.

[Richard Benyon]

I shall talk about debt and gearing shortly, and I think my hon. Friend will find me in agreement with him on those issues.

Let me explain why I believe the Water Bill is only a work in progress when it comes to delivering the ambitions of the water White Paper. In the next Parliament, I really hope we will see a Bill to address the needs of abstraction reform. It would be impossible to bring that forward as part of the Water Bill because there are tens of thousands of abstraction licences, on which many of our constituents and the businesses that employ them depend for their water supply. Trying to create a new abstraction regime from the one created back in the 1960s is a Herculean task that will require thoughtful legislation to make sure that the taps still flow and that we do not suck dry aquifers like the Kennet, which provides a very important water supply to the constituents of my hon. Friend the Member for South Swindon (Mr Buckland). That, however, has been the cheapest place from which to suck water, and it is only through the construction of good infrastructure and investment that we can do this in a sustainable way that keeps bills down, keeps water flowing and supports our economy. Further legislation, then, is needed.

Let me make a further point about investment before I reach my final point. If we want to see continued investment from pension funds—whether they be British or from overseas—sovereign wealth funds and other investors, we need to recognise that this is a relatively fragile and competitive market. I shall give the House an anecdote about the frequent visits I made to speak to the investor community to make sure that it saw that our ambitions in the water White Paper and the Water Bill were consistent with continued high levels of investment.

Some time ago, there was a hiatus concerning a rather technical issue that might well have gone over the heads of most people in this country. It related to the licence modifications that Ofwat wanted to create. This brought me in touch with a new breed in my life—City analysts, many of whom, in the words of my children, were “wusses”. They took an instant view that the regulated sector was not the place in which to invest, so the water sector saw quite a high risk of much needed investment being reduced. It took a Herculean effort—by me on the bottom echelons of the Government, right up to the higher levels—to make sure, first, that what Ofwat was trying to achieve was understood. In my opinion, it might have had a virtuous reason for what it did, but perhaps went about it in the wrong way. It reminded me that if we want to see continued levels of investment, we have to make sure that we explain what we are doing. Ultimately, the need to deal with infrastructure problems needs to feed through to bills, and we need to explain that we want to see a vibrant regulated sector in this country.

[Mr MacNeil]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Richard Benyon]

Very briefly.

[Mr MacNeil]

I have been listening carefully to the arguments on both sides of the debate. Why does the hon. Gentleman think average water bills are lower in Scotland, where water is publicly owned, than in England, where it is privately owned?

[Richard Benyon]

We want to see in England the virtue of the competition from which the hon. Gentleman’s constituents benefit in Scotland, in the business sector and, indeed, the public sector. Schools and the health service in Scotland have the opportunity to switch their suppliers, and the Water Bill will enable businesses in England to do the same. I accept that this is still work in progress, but we want to see the benefits of competition flowing—

[Mr MacNeil]

rose—

[Richard Benyon]

I will not give way again because many other Members wish to speak and I want to say something about debt before I finish.

I took on the water brief with a background in small business, but I had never encountered, or been closely associated with, businesses that had the level of debt and gearing that I saw in the water industry. I observed that the credit rating agencies—for which I have great respect: some very good people work for organisations such as Moody’s and Standard & Poor’s—were giving the water companies very high ratings, awarding them As, A-minuses and high Bs. In fact, Ofwat operates the strict criterion that their ratings must remain at those levels. However, I could not come to terms with that in my own mind at times.

The companies may indeed be complying with Ofwat’s criterion by gaining high credit ratings as a result of their wealth, but I think many Members will feel, as I do, that gearing of that order confers a brittleness—an inflexibility—when it comes to those companies delivering what we want them to deliver to their customers. I hope there will be more understanding of the need for them to reflect the concern that is felt about gearing levels, not just in the House but among their customers.

It is important for us to view water bills in the context of total household expenditure. The Leader of the Opposition has decided that energy bills are an issue on which he wants to bang the drum, but we know that his plan will not work. He knows it will not work, and he knows that we know that he knows it will not work. What is ridiculous about his argument is that it treats one part of household expenditure, albeit an important part, as the sole issue of the moment. Rather than doing that, the Government must view water bills and energy costs in the context of overall household expenditure. They must keep bearing down on council tax, and preferably freeze it. They must continue to protect the most vulnerable by providing winter fuel payments, and to ensure that more of our constituents on low incomes do not pay any tax. It is in that context that the Government should develop policy on household bills.

Water bills are, of course, important. It is vital for us not only to understand but to reflect the concerns of our constituents, and to take advantage of every opportunity to protect those on low incomes. We can, for instance, provide social tariffs. We can also work on the problem of bad debt, which, as we know, adds an average of £15 to every household’s bills—although when that is broken down by company, it is clear that some companies are outperforming others dramatically, and that their bad debt is a fraction of the average. Some are doing magnificently, and others appallingly badly. We must learn from best practice. We must ensure that companies deal with bad debt, but we must also ensure that we address their relationships with their customers in general. We must bear in mind the win-wins that can help those who are having trouble paying their bills to deal with the problem.

I hope that we will not be defensive about the model, because it is a good model. It has created a huge benefit for this country in terms of investment. What it has delivered is relatively affordable for most people, but we need to work hard to make sure prices come down. The five-yearly price review, along with clear policy from the Government, who understand the situation, presents an opportunity. We can make sure the companies are bearing down on bills and there is none of that awful cyclical investment, with investment falling off a cliff two years before the price review period. We want to see continued investment because we know that is the way to have a sustainable water supply and a sustainable sewerage system—not just economically sustainable, but environmentally sustainable as well.

--- Later in debate ---

[Gavin Shuker]

What a fantastic set-up for the speech I am about to give, which is about the Government’s record in the past few years. I freely accept that the hon. Gentleman was not a member of the Government at that time, but he obviously voted on many of the issues that I want to talk about.

It is crucial that we in this House have a proper understanding of the impact that the Bill that is being sold to us will have on the consumer bills that are being levied on many of our constituents right now. Let us be clear: no one was talking about water affordability or Government action to reform the water industry to deliver for customers and not just for shareholders until the Leader of the Opposition gave his living standards speech in Brighton back in September.

[Richard Benyon]

rose—

[Gavin Shuker]

I am happy to take an intervention from the former water Minister.

[Richard Benyon]

I hesitate to rise, because I could just sit here and enjoy the hon. Gentleman’s speech. He and I had endless discussions about affordability when he was in his Front-Bench role, so he knows that he need only read the water White Paper to see that we were concerned about that issue, and he knows that the underlying truth of the Water Bill is that, in order to keep bills low, we need to make sure that we have an industry fit for the future, which is all about affordability and protecting our constituents. He also knows, therefore, that it is ridiculous to suggest that this issue has appeared just in the past few days.

[Gavin Shuker]

The hon. Gentleman makes a passionate defence of his own record in post.

Let us look at some of the specific measures on which this Government had the opportunity to work and legislate but deliberately chose not to do so. First, there is bad debt. I was interested to read a copy of the Secretary of State’s letter to the water companies—sent out today, curiously enough, purely coincidentally—which talked about bad debt. I thought, “Fantastic! At last this Government have adopted the right position on bad debt.” Each household has to pay £15 or so because some people cannot pay and will not pay, and that money is dumped on the bills of consumers who step up and do pay.

On energy bills, is it not interesting that there is a provision that requires landlords to give companies their tenants’ details so that they can reclaim the money? On reading the letter, I thought, “Fantastic. At last the Government have responded to the Opposition’s calls to make the water situation analogous with that of energy.” However, the letter only makes a firm threat to look at the issue in more detail if the companies themselves do not voluntarily make progress on the provision.

My position and that of my party is clear: bad debt as a result of those people who will not or cannot pay dumps an additional cost on every household, so it would make sense to implement the provision. The Government could have taken that action. We made the case for it, but they have had no interest in it until now.

That is not the only issue. Government Members and the press have today mentioned the social tariff. I was the lead Opposition Member on the Water Industry (Financial Assistance) Bill Committee. We sought to amend the Bill so that every water company operating in the UK had to do one simple thing, namely offer a social tariff to those people who find it hard to pay their bills or who find themselves in a situation where they cannot pay for the service provided. The Government chose to vote down that proposal and Government Members voted against it. Instead, they favoured a voluntary approach: if water companies wanted to introduce a social tariff, they could. It is amazing how few water companies have actually done so.

Marine Management Organisation

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Tuesday 10th September 2013 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

Today I am launching a triennial review of the Marine Management Organisation. The Marine Management Organisation was set up in 2010 to make a significant contribution to sustainable development in the marine area, and to promote the UK Government’s vision for clean, healthy, safe, productive and biologically diverse oceans and seas.

Triennial reviews of non-departmental public bodies are part of the Government’s commitment to ensuring accountability in public life.

This review will be conducted in accordance with Government guidance for reviewing non-departmental public bodies. The review will be carried out in an open and inclusive way and interested stakeholders will be given the opportunity to feed in their views. I will announce the findings of the review early in 2014.

Further information on the review is available on the Government website.

Water Bill (Flood Insurance Clauses)

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Friday 6th September 2013 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

The Water Bill was introduced on 27 June which, along with clauses on water sector reform, included a placeholder clause on flood insurance. The Government’s proposed approach to the future of flood insurance was also published and a six-week consultation launched.

Today, I am publishing the draft clauses on flood insurance to provide those interested with the opportunity to examine our proposed legislative approach. We had hoped to publish draft clauses during the formal consultation period that ran from 27 June to 8 August, but more time was needed to develop the detail of the proposed approach.

Along with the draft clauses and draft explanatory notes, I have provided a commentary on the policy intention for the clauses. This gives a fuller picture of what is intended and provides further insight into the Government’s proposals. This additional information should be read in conjunction with the material published in June. I have placed a copy of the draft clauses and commentary in the House Libraries.

I am grateful for the comments and evidence provided during the public consultation. We received a positive response and are considering the comments carefully. We will publish our response in parallel with drafting the clauses for inclusion in the Water Bill by Government amendment at Committee stage.

Marine Conservation Zones and Marine Planning

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Tuesday 16th July 2013 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

Today the Government are publishing a summary of responses to the consultation on creating a series of marine conservation zones (MCZs) around our coast and the Marine Management Organisation is launching a consultation on the first draft marine plans for the eastern inshore and offshore areas.

A total of 40,632 responses to the MCZs consultation were received, ranging from support for the designation of all 127 MCZs recommended by regional projects to objections to many sites and concerns from most marine industries about management of MCZs. A final decision on which sites will be designated will be made over the summer with the aim of making designations in the autumn. At the same time we will indicate our proposed approach to the next stage of work on MCZs.

We are doing more than ever to protect our marine environment and a wide range of marine protected areas already exist. Nearly a quarter of English inshore waters are already established as marine protected areas. In total the UK has 214 marine protected areas covering 73,890 sq km designated under the EU habitats and wild birds directives. Together, these protect important European marine habitats and species and seabirds, their habitats and foraging areas. New MCZs will supplement this network, as will further marine special protection areas on which consultations are planned for the autumn.

We are also improving the way we manage fisheries in European marine protected areas. This will ensure that key habitats are protected from damaging activities, delivering benefits both in terms of conservation and the associated wider ecosystem services. Any restrictions in fisheries must be proportionate, fair and not discriminatory. Outside 12 miles, co-operation with other member states is necessary to ensure there is effective management. That is why I am pleased that, with the Netherlands and Germany, we are working to submit to the European Commission joint proposals, designed in co-operation with the fisheries and NGO sectors, for managing fishing activities on the Dogger Bank special area of conservation, one of Europe’s largest marine protected areas.

The first draft marine plans for the eastern inshore and offshore areas will enable transparent and streamlined decision making, reduce regulatory burden and provide certainty for developers, while safeguarding our environment. In short, marine plans will enable us to manage competing uses of our seas and identify opportunities for sharing space in busy areas so that as many industries as possible can benefit.

Our ambitious marine agenda also includes reform of the common fisheries policy, on which I made a statement to the House of Commons on 17 June, Official Report, column 637. We have secured significant reform of the current, broken CFP. We stood firm during these lengthy negotiations to agree reforms that will make fishing more sustainable, decentralise decision making and eliminate the discarding of dead fish.

We are making good progress on implementing the shark, skate and ray conservation plan, which aims to allow depleted stocks to recover and those faring better to be fished sustainably. Finally, to protect cetaceans we have implemented measures to reduce by-catch, which we will continue to monitor through the UK’s cetacean by-catch monitoring scheme, recognised as one of the best in Europe.

Together, all these measures will contribute to achieving good environmental status in our seas by 2020, as required under the EU marine strategy framework directive. The Government remain committed to taking concrete action to protect our marine environment to safeguard sustainable, productive and healthy seas.

Fishing Quotas

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Tuesday 16th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

I start by paying great tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney (Peter Aldous). His constituency might have a much diminished fleet, but he is a worthy champion of it and has stood up for it on many occasions. Having visited Lowestoft’s fishing industry with him, I have seen at first hand his passion to see it return to economic viability—to flourish, as he puts it—and to protect it from the complications of a system that has failed it, failed the marine environment and failed the coastal communities on which it depends.

I was of course pleased that the judgment in the judicial review between the UK Association of Fish Producers Organisations and my Department went in our favour. That completely vindicates the decision I took in 2011 to realign consistently underutilised quota from producer organisations and allocate it to those able to fish it. I agree with my hon. Friend that we are not talking about a huge amount of quota, but we have won on a key point of principle. I entirely agree with the view, commonly held across the House, that we are talking about a national asset. It is my Department’s job to allocate fishing opportunities in this country in as fair a way as possible. The judgment might still be subject to an appeal, but I will set out what I intend to do to ensure that we can maximise the value of our fishing quotas and the sustainability of the fleet while guaranteeing the transparency and accountability of those who have access to this priceless public resource.

My Department has undertaken a wide range of initiatives in recent years, and I would like to set them out briefly, along with some of the other projects being undertaken by different stakeholders. Work to finalise the reallocation of the fixed quota allocation units had been put on hold pending the outcome of the judicial review. That work will now proceed to allow the transfer of units from producer organisations to the under-10 metre English pool. I encourage the industry, particularly producer organisations, to support that work. I entirely endorse what my hon. Friend the Member for St Ives (Andrew George) said about the many producer organisations that have under-10 metre vessels in their membership and that work well with them whether or not they are in those organisations.

I previously updated the House on 17 June 2013 on the vital progress to secure radical reform of the common fisheries policy. I do not underestimate the challenges fishermen will face as we adapt to the new provisions, especially those relating to the discard ban. We are already working with the industry in the UK on a range of projects, including catch quotas, more selective gears and the identification of discard rates in our fisheries, to ensure that we can make the new system work effectively for the whole fleet. However, the deal that has been agreed—to introduce a ban on discards, manage our fish stocks sustainably and manage our seas on a regional basis—will benefit all of our fleet, large and small.

At long last our fishing industry will be able to have some certainty as to its future. Although the introduction of a ban on discards has taken the headlines, the requirement to manage our seas to maximum sustainable yield by 2020 is perhaps the most significant element of the reform. When we look back on this period, perhaps in a decade or two, we will see that as the really big win in returning our seas to sustainable harvesting of wild fish. Fishermen will have certainty over the future of the stocks they fish and depend on.

In addition, I am pleased to inform the House that yesterday we successfully secured a general approach on the European maritime and fisheries fund at the European Agriculture and Fisheries Council. The agreement means that the EMFF will be an effective tool for supporting delivery of CFP reform, and it clears the way for discussions between the presidency, Commission, and Parliament to continue in the autumn.

As part of a package of measures to reform domestic fisheries, my Department is running a pilot community quota scheme, working with a group of fishermen from Ramsgate. I pay tribute to my hon. Friend the Member for South Thanet (Laura Sandys) for her support for that scheme. She has been a tireless supporter of the fishing industry in her constituency—just as my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney is in his—and of the under-10 metre fleet in general. The purpose of the scheme was to give a group of inshore fishermen some quota from the under-10 metre pool and for them to manage it themselves. The scheme ran from 1 June 2012 to 31 May this year, and has been extended in response to calls for the pilot to continue from the National Federation of Fishermen’s Organisations, and the Ramsgate fishermen group. It will now operate until 31 December with support from the Fish Producers Organisation. The group will have full management control over the quotas it has been allocated.

The project demonstrated key benefits such as more flexibility and greater certainty in fishing activities that supported better business planning and efficiency. The group preferred the management arrangement under the pilot, which was reflected in its request for it to continue. The offer by the FPO demonstrates the willingness of producer organisations to help the inshore fleet, which is a welcome development. By working together, different sectors of the industry can bring about initiatives that help maximise their catches, get better value for their fish, and promote a common interest in managing those resources effectively. The outcome of the pilot will be used to help us determine ways in which we may seek to manage the inshore fleet, and the quota available to it in the future.

The Department for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs is currently funding an activity-based research project piloting a community supported fishery approach on the south coast. Under that project, communities in Brighton and Chichester have formed co-operatives through which local fishers supply weekly boxes of fish directly to subscribing members. As well as testing the appetite for consumers to work with their local fishers in that way, and sharing both the risks and benefits faced by the fishers, the project also provides a mechanism to create a market for underutilised or discarded fish species. The project is due to finish at the end of July, but the co-operatives and fishers involved have found the approach beneficial, and intend to continue without Government support in the future. I welcome that and congratulate them on the way they have used Government funding and will carry forward the project.

Last year I and the other UK fisheries Ministers announced our intention to produce a publicly accessible register that would show exactly who had ownership of fixed quota allocation units in the United Kingdom. DEFRA and Ministers in the devolved Administrations continue to work on that with the industry, and it remains our intention and aim to publish that register by the end of 2013. The public have a right to know who receives the UK’s fishing quotas, and I am delighted that we are on track to do that. I will keep the House and my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney informed of our progress.

I also thank other organisations for their efforts in helping to secure a bright future for the nation’s fisheries resources. The Marine Stewardship Council has launched phase 3 of its Project Inshore initiative. The purpose of the project is to assess all inshore fish stocks in England and Wales so as to determine their preparedness for certification. The aim is not to seek certification for all stocks, but to produce a road map outlining the status of the fisheries in order to develop best practice so they can be managed sustainably. That is a timely project, supported by a range of stakeholders such as Seafish, NGOs and retailers.

Fishing into the Future is another initiative that focuses on the viability of our fishing communities and the sustainable use of fish stocks. It was launched by the Prince of Wales’s international sustainability unit in collaboration with Seafish, and aims to encourage sustainability and marketing efforts through the exchange of new knowledge and ideas between fishers, scientists, fisheries managers and supply chain experts.

I welcome such initiatives and my Department is pleased to be part of them. Making sure that our stocks are exploited at optimal sustainable levels and reallocating quota to maximise their use is only going so far towards addressing the challenges that the inshore and, indeed, other fishing sectors face. We also need to ensure that our fleet size matches the fishing opportunities available. For that reason, my Department is exploring ways in which this can be achieved, and we will be discussing it with the industry.

The task now facing us is a challenging one. Let us not run away from that fact; it is well understood by the fishing industry and by everybody who minds about the health of our seas. It is important that we all work together to grasp the opportunities provided by CFP reform and other initiatives. I hope that now that the court case is behind us we can all work together to make sure that we have a meaningful future for our fishing industry. Let us not hide from the fact that there are many fishers in the over-10 metre sector as well as the under-10 metre sector who have found life next to impossible—who are hanging on by their fingertips, as I have said before. The opportunity now exists for them to see a future that will really make a difference and encourage future generations.

I cannot guarantee that people will be able to walk across Hamilton dock in Lowestoft in the way that they could in the past. It is possible, however, that people will see that this is a business they want to go into and can manage in the same way that any other small business can be managed. However, they can do so only if there is a rising biomass of fish in the sea. Our overriding determination must be to ensure that fish stocks increase, and then the fishing opportunities that we allocate as fairly as possible can be of much more economic benefit to fishermen fishing in harmony with nature. In recent years, great inroads have been made into improving the sustainability of fisheries, and I really hope that we can build on that excellent work. I commend my hon. Friend again for bringing this important matter to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Oral Answers to Questions

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Thursday 4th July 2013 Commons Chamber

[John Mann (Bassetlaw) (Lab)]

2. What assessment he has made of the effects of UK policy on the protection of endangered species worldwide.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

The UK is an influential leader in the protection of endangered species, through our own actions as well as our input to relevant global agreements. For example, we recently helped to secure additional protection for various marine and timber species through the convention on international trade in endangered species. The UK has contributed to various assessments of global biodiversity, but it is difficult to assess the effects of one country’s policies alone.

[John Mann]

We used to be a great leader on this issue, but now we do not even properly fund wildlife crime prevention in this country, despite the change to the law that I successfully moved under the previous Government. Why do we have almost silence from this Government on protecting endangered species and promoting the issue abroad?

[Richard Benyon]

The hon. Gentleman is entirely wrong. We have funded the wildlife crime unit, which does great work, both at home and abroad; we have been a leader in global forums on dealing with international crime—for example, we have co-funded Project Wisdom, through Interpol, to tackle the illegal trade in endangered species; we are involved in a variety of different operations in Africa and other range states to protect wildlife species; and the expertise we have at home is part of a fantastic partnership between the UK Border Agency, the police and various other agencies, which other countries come to look at.

[Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)]

My hon. Friend will be aware of the key role that Chester zoo is playing in the “If They’re Gone” campaign, whereby it is leading on orangutans and it has orangutan month in August. Will he tell us about the key role the campaign is playing in promoting awareness in the UK?

[Richard Benyon]

The “If They’re Gone” campaign is one of the highlights of what this country is doing in giving leadership. My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State has launched the rhino part of the campaign, and the elephant part highlights the importance of making people aware of the risks that ivory poaching poses to that species. The next phase is the orangutan phase. The orangutan is an endangered species and this country is determined, through our footprint abroad and in terms of the palm oil we all use—making sure we are responsible at home and abroad—to protect that very special species.

[Jim Fitzpatrick (Poplar and Limehouse) (Lab)]

The Minister mentioned rhinos and elephants and recent reports have shown that terrorists are slaughtering those animals to raise revenue for terrorism. In making their assessment, will the UK Government link up with the experts in counter-terrorism in the Foreign Office to ensure that we make as big a contribution as possible to stopping that dreadful trade?

[Richard Benyon]

The Foreign Secretary recently convened a meeting of Ministers to do in this country precisely what is happening in the United States. There has been a realisation that this is not just an environmental problem—it is about security, too. In large parts of Africa, organisations such as al-Shabaab and the Lord’s Resistance Army are helping to finance the evil they do through this trade. There is a realisation that we need a cross-government approach and that was the basis of the event that the Prince of Wales hosted at Clarence house. We will formulate that approach in a meeting later this year to ensure that we are co-ordinating things across government while pooling resources with other Governments to ensure that we are doing precisely what the hon. Gentleman suggests.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

Of course, the largest area on the planet’s surface given over to the protection of endangered species is the Chagos marine protected area, which we established when we were last in government. The Pitcairn governing Council and the Bermudan Government are now asking the UK to designate marine protected areas in the south Pacific and the Sargasso sea. What technical assistance will the Minister’s Department give to ensure that those excellent proposals become a reality?

[Richard Benyon]

First, let me congratulate the hon. Gentleman on his appointment to the Front Bench; I am sure that he will adorn it with his skills. I think that he is the sixth shadow Minister in opposition to me, and he is very welcome.

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right. The scheme in the Chagos islands is exemplary and we want to see such schemes developed throughout the overseas territories. There are already plans to see proper marine protection around St Helena and a very exciting project in South Georgia. I want to see a necklace of marine protected areas that can be this country’s legacy from our imperial past to the future protection of marine zones.

[Kerry McCarthy (Bristol East) (Lab)]

3. What assessment he has made of the effects of the final common agricultural policy settlement on the UK’s ability to achieve its environmental objectives and 2020 targets.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Andrew Stunell (Hazel Grove) (LD)]

7. What progress his Department is making on the establishment of marine conservation zones.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

We are analysing all the responses and evidence submitted following the recent consultation before making final decisions on designating the first tranche of marine conservation zones later this year.

[Sir Andrew Stunell]

I thank the Minister for that reply. He will know that the Select Committee was getting a bit frustrated about this, and the Government’s response to the Committee did not improve the situation. Does the Minister understand that there is real frustration about the slow speed at which this is going and the apparently arbitrary way in which the Government have selected the zones? Will he reassure the House that they are serious about delivering the policy?

[Richard Benyon]

I assure my right hon. Friend that I share his frustration. I inherited a system that created huge expectations but which did not match the evidence required to make these zones work. We are now seeking to make sure that they are evidence-based, affordable, fit in with what happens locally in the seas and part of a coherent package.

[Mr Ben Bradshaw (Exeter) (Lab)]

Vital marine habitats off Devon and Cornwall will be lost for ever because this Government are not implementing a fully ecologically coherent network of marine conservation zones or following the time scale laid down in the Marine and Coastal Access Act 2009. Will the Minister please think again and tell the Chancellor that the costs of inaction in the long run will be far greater than the costs of protecting our marine environment now?

[Richard Benyon]

The right hon. Gentleman is looking at marine conservation zones as if they are the only show in town. We have 42 special areas of conservation and 37 special protection areas around the English coast. About a quarter of our inshore waters are protected and we have more than 300 sites of special scientific interest in the intertidal zone. What we are trying to do with marine conservation zones is part of a much bigger picture of marine protection. We will be one of the leading countries in the world for marine conversation and the right hon. Gentleman should feel proud about that.

[Mrs Caroline Spelman (Meriden) (Con)]

8. What recent progress he has made on flood insurance; and if he will make a statement.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

Last week, we announced a headline agreement with industry to guarantee affordable flood insurance for people in high-risk areas. The Association of British Insurers has assured Ministers that implementing Flood Re will have minimal impact on customers’ bills. We will be seeking the necessary powers in the Water Bill. Tackling flood risk will help to keep insurance terms affordable in the long term. We have announced record levels of capital investment of more than £2.3 billion for 2015-16 to 2020-21.

[Mrs Spelman]

I congratulate the Minister on securing that new deal for universal and affordable flood insurance, which eluded the last Labour Government and me. Will he actively encourage people who live in flood-prone areas to take up the capped premiums and not risk being uninsured?

[Richard Benyon]

My right hon. Friend should take a large slice of the credit for the deal that we have achieved. She worked hard to set in train something that the previous Government did not even look at, which is a successor to the statement of principles. I assure her that the key part of the deal is ensuring that we cap premiums, particularly for the most vulnerable, and, importantly, that we cap excess charges.

[Mr John Spellar (Warley) (Lab)]

After the great flood, in the words of the old negro spiritual,

“God gave Noah the rainbow sign,

No more water but fire next time”.

Smethwick has certainly suffered from fire this week. Will the Minister, with other Departments, look urgently at banning sky lanterns and, with the Environment Agency, look at the licensing arrangements regarding storage at recycling sites that have large quantities of flammable material?

[Mr Speaker]

The right hon. Gentleman might wish to seek an Adjournment debate on the matter.

[Richard Benyon]

I have huge sympathy for the people of Smethwick, but this matter is nothing to do with floods or flood insurance. I assure the right hon. Gentleman that we are taking the question of Chinese lanterns very seriously indeed.

[Sheryll Murray (South East Cornwall) (Con)]

People in my constituency who have been flooded will welcome the news about flood insurance and the extension of the £50 off their water bills. Does he agree that that shows a commitment to the people of the south-west that was never shown by the previous Government?

[Richard Benyon]

I agree entirely. I am grateful to my hon. Friend for pointing out that we have addressed an intrinsic, long-term unfairness for people in the south-west. We have proved that we are doing that not just for today, but for the long term.

[Gavin Shuker (Luton South) (Lab/Co-op)]

We have a proposal from this Government, not a deal. The Secretary of State said that

“this announcement means that people no longer need to live in fear of being uninsurable”.

However, all band H properties are excluded, as are so-called “genuinely uninsurable” properties and all properties built after 2009. Given that it has taken the Minister three years to get to this point, will he now admit that his proposals do not provide universal access to cover?

[Richard Benyon]

What an uncharacteristically graceless question from the hon. Gentleman. When the deal was announced from the Dispatch Box last week, there was an audible sigh of relief, not only from Government Back Benchers, but from Opposition Back Benchers. The deal has been welcomed and I am sure that the hon. Gentleman knows in his heart that it is a good deal and one that will last for the long term.

[Chi Onwurah (Newcastle upon Tyne Central) (Lab)]

9. What recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport on the roll-out of broadband in rural areas.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

The Secretary of State meets regularly with his counterpart at the Department for Culture, Media and Sport to discuss the roll-out of the £530 million rural broadband programme. We are determined to deliver that quickly to provide 90% of premises with superfast broadband at 24 megabits a second and elsewhere with standard broadband of at least 2 megabits a second. Further discussions will focus on the £250 million of additional broadband funding that was announced as part of the spending review.

[Chi Onwurah]

It is clear that the Department for Culture, Media and Sport has been briefing against Broadband Delivery UK in recent weeks. The Minister must acknowledge that it is his Government’s decision to abandon Labour’s pledge of good broadband for all by 2012 in favour of superfast broadband for some by 2015 that has left rural businesses and residents in the digital slow lane. How does he justify the devastating impact of that on the rural economy?

[Richard Benyon]

I am sorry, but I cannot accept that. One reason why the hon. Lady is sitting on the Opposition Benches is that her party lost the rural vote, partly because it left rural Britain in a digital no-go zone. We have set out a programme that, by 2015, will see the rural economy playing its part in the rest of the economy through the extension of superfast broadband, and I think she knows it.

[Neil Carmichael (Stroud) (Con)]

I would like to report that there is good progress in rolling out superfast broadband in Gloucestershire. Does the Minister agree that that is one of the core reasons why the private sector is able to create more and more jobs?

[Richard Benyon]

I am delighted that things are moving on in Gloucestershire. Of the 44 county projects, 27 are now contracted and the remainder will be by September. We will start to see fibre being laid in huge quantities around rural Britain, and it will be as easy to run a creative industry firm in a converted farm building in my hon. Friend’s constituency as it would be in the middle of Gloucester.

[Grahame M. Morris (Easington) (Lab)]

Has the Minister carried out any assessment of the impact of digital exclusion on deprived communities such as mine, particularly for young people, who increasingly need internet connections to complete schoolwork, apply for jobs and so on?

[Richard Benyon]

We have indeed. We know, for example, from the work that PricewaterhouseCoopers has done that there is an average benefit of £365 a year to families who have proper digital access, for precisely the reasons that the hon. Gentleman gives. I was at a remote location in Northumberland national park the other day seeing a satellite solution that was providing an extraordinary benefit to the eight houses at the end of a long valley, so I am well aware of the points that he makes.

[Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD)]

I very much welcome the moneys that the Minister’s Department has made available to extend broadband into the hardest-to-reach places, but identifying exactly which places those are and what it will take to achieve that is no trivial exercise. Will he reserve some of the funds for councils such as Wiltshire that have submitted an expression of interest but still need to conduct the detailed survey work required?

[Richard Benyon]

My right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Culture, Media and Sport is convening a meeting in the next few days with a number of community-led schemes that are concerned about the uncertainty over whether they will be among the final 10% hardest-to-reach areas. Over the next few weeks, we will have a much clearer view of where there are problems. We want to ensure that we iron out those problems so that people know that they are in that 10% and can then access money through the rural community broadband fund.

[Hugh Bayley (York Central) (Lab)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his Departmental responsibilities.

--- Later in debate ---

[Priti Patel (Witham) (Con)]

The Minister is familiar with the concerns of my constituent Andrew St Joseph about the lack of involvement of landowners in decisions taken about flood defences and maintenance. Will he look into it and give me an assurance that this will no longer happen and that landowners will be consulted on the maintenance of defences?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

I have huge respect for Mr St Joseph and his Essex Coast Organisation. If he feels that he is not being consulted, I want to make sure we address that. My understanding from the regional director and others is that they have regular meetings with him and with the Essex Coast Organisation. If my hon. Friend has other information, I will want to work closely with her to ensure we correct that.

[Jonathan Ashworth (Leicester South) (Lab)]

T6. Following the horsemeat scandals, there are still serious concerns about meat in the supply chain. When will we get a full report? In Leicester there are still concerns about halal food. What discussion has the Minister had with the Food Standards Agency on this?

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Farmers in the Kettering constituency told me recently that their greatest concern was rural crime and the theft of farm equipment. What work is the Department doing with the Home Department to address this problem?

[Richard Benyon]

Rural crime is a real concern and needs to be resolved locally, which is one reason why we have directly elected police and crime commissioners who can now be held accountable to their local electorate. But there is also a firm role for Members of this House to make sure that local police forces are making this a priority.

[Helen Goodman (Bishop Auckland) (Lab)]

T8. The Government’s rural broadband roll-out is such a disaster that I have farmers in my constituency who are expected to upload data both to the Rural Payments Agency and to HMRC online when they have no possibility of getting a connection. Will the Minister stop this demand?

[Richard Benyon]

One of the absurdities under the last Government was that they wanted things done online but farmers did not have the ability to do so. That is one reason why we have made roll-out of rural broadband so important. The hon. Lady knows that it is on the verge of being rolled out in her area, which will be of great benefit to some remote communities.

[Charles Hendry (Wealden) (Con)]

What proportion of those living in rural areas have not just slow broadband, but no affordably priced commercial broadband at all, such as the village of Isfield in my constituency? Will the Minister liaise with the Department for Culture, Media and Sport to ensure that these “not spots” are given priority in the roll-out of superfast broadband?

[Richard Benyon]

Beyond 2015, the intention, with the extra money that has been allocated, is to get superfast broadband to 99% of properties. I have seen technology that gets good quality broadband to very remote communities, so I hope my hon. Friend’s constituents will soon be online and able to compete in the global economy.

The hon. Member for Banbury, representing the Church Commissioners, was asked—

EA's Navigations/Canal and River Trust

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Wednesday 3rd July 2013 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

On 28 February 2011, Official Report, column 7WS. I made a statement about inland waterways policy for England and Wales. I set out the Government’s vision of a national trust for the waterways that included the British Waterways and Environment Agency (EA) navigations. I said that there would be a phased approach to the delivery of this vision. In phase 1, the functions, liabilities and assets of British Waterways in England and Wales would transfer into a new charity, and in phase 2 the EA navigations would transfer in 2015-16. I made it clear that the transfer would only take place if sufficient funding could be found in the next spending review to enable the charity to take on the liabilities associated with EA’s navigations, and that a transfer would be subject to the agreement of the charity’s trustees.

British Waterways’ functions, assets and liabilities in England and Wales were transferred to the Canal and River Trust (CRT) on 2 July 2012. This was a great achievement which has been widely welcomed and has already delivered considerable benefits such as raising almost £1 million and drawing upon 29,000 volunteer days to support the waterways.

The fiscal situation remains challenging and as a result DEFRA must identify additional savings in 2015-16 to help deal with the deficit. Initial scoping work on transfer costs which was undertaken during the new waterways charity project indicates that the transfer of EA navigations is unlikely to be affordable in the current climate. The Government have therefore decided that the review planned for 2013-14 to consider options for the transfer will be postponed until DEFRA’s finances improve and there is a realistic prospect of the transfer being affordable and that it can take place on terms which would enable CRT’s trustees to manage the additional liabilities involved.

I realise that this decision will come as a disappointment to all those with an interest in our inland waterways who share the Government’s view that a transfer to CRT offers the most sustainable long-term future for EA’s navigations. The Government, however, remain fully committed to transferring the EA navigations when the economic circumstances allow us to do so. The Government will review the position after the next spending period and will make a further announcement at that time on the timing of the transfer.

Flood Insurance

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Thursday 27th June 2013 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

The current voluntary agreement on flood insurance between Government and the insurance industry, termed the statement of principles, ends shortly. Without new arrangements, there is concern that households at flood risk will not have access to the affordable insurance cover they need.

Flood insurance is a complex problem. Ministers have consistently said that the aim is to find a solution which secures the availability of affordable flood insurance for households at risk of flooding without placing unsustainable costs on wider policyholders and the taxpayer. Our preference is to work in partnership with the insurance industry to deliver this.

This Government have therefore been working hard to develop a new approach with the Association of British Insurers (ABI) that promises to allow affordable flood insurance to continue to be available. I am grateful to my right hon. Friend the Minister for Government Policy who has led these discussions on behalf of the Government.

I am today launching a public consultation on how we intend to move forward. We will seek the necessary powers to take action in the Water Bill, also published today.

Following extensive discussions with the Association of British Insurers, we have established the principles for a new flood insurance solution based on their “Flood Re” proposal. I will arrange for copies of the memorandum of understanding we have reached with the ABI to be placed in the Library of the House along with the consultation document.

Flood Re promises to effectively limit the most that hundreds of thousands of UK households should have to pay for flood insurance. We anticipate that up to 500,000 high-risk households could benefit from Flood Re, and pay significantly less for their insurance than they might otherwise. Customers would be free to shop around to get the best overall deal from an insurer of their choice as well as limiting the potential for price rises, with some customers seeing prices fall. Flood Re would also constrain the excesses that could be imposed on households at high flood risk.

The benefits of Flood Re would be targeted towards those who need it most, helping those who are particularly hard-pressed with the cost of living. Furthermore, the ABI has assured Ministers that its proposal can be introduced without impacting customer bills in general. An internal industry levy would fund Flood Re, capturing the existing cross-subsidy in the market. Flood Re would operate as a not-for-profit reinsurance scheme managed by the insurance industry itself. There will be no contingent liability for the Government or the taxpayer from the Flood Re scheme.

Flood Re would be a novel approach and there remain many details to work through with the industry, including the relationship between Flood Re and Parliament. Our broad intention is that Flood Re, rather than Ministers, would be directly accountable to Parliament for its ongoing operations. Ministers would of course remain accountable to Parliament for overall policy on flood insurance. While novel, these arrangements are intended to strike a balance between the full requirements of accountability to Parliament and the need for Flood Re to operate as an integral part of the insurance market. I am writing with further details on this point to the chairs of the Environment, Food and Rural Affairs, Treasury, and Public Accounts Committees. Due to the statutory nature of the levy, Flood Re is also likely to be classed as state aid and so would need to be approved by the European Commission.

While it is our preference to work with the industry towards Flood Re there are therefore still significant issues to be overcome, many outside of the Government’s control. Households deserve to have confidence that this issue will be addressed one way or another. Because of the remaining uncertainties around Flood Re, the Government will also seek powers in the Water Bill to regulate for affordable flood insurance. This approach would be pursued if Flood Re would not or does not deliver what we need, and insurers are otherwise unable to keep prices at affordable levels. If introduced, the fall-back regulatory approach would place an obligation on each insurer to take their share of high flood risk households, or face penalties. This flood insurance obligation would have the objective of sustaining the existing market for high-risk households at affordable prices.

This Government do not intervene in markets unnecessarily, and whichever approach is finally pursued it would only operate for a limited time, and would be withdrawn within 20 to 25 years. In the long term we need to create a situation where everyone is fully aware of their level of flood risk, and households and communities are rewarded through their future bills for the steps they take to reduce flood risk.

We are seeking views on this as the way forward through a six-week public consultation. The Water Bill being published today will contain a placeholder clause on flood insurance. Following public consultation I intend to announce final proposals and introduce updated clauses to the Water Bill by Government amendment later this year.

The best way of securing affordable insurance in the long term is and will always be to reduce the chance of flooding in the first place. Investing in flood risk management remains at the top of the Government’s priorities. The Government also provide a range of further support for households to reduce their risk of flooding and find affordable insurance, for instance by signing up to free flood warnings, and help with fitting flood gates and other property-level protection measures.

I am also pleased to inform the House that insurers have agreed to continue to meet their commitments under the statement of principles until such a time as Flood Re can begin operation. This will provide valuable and immediate reassurance for householders.

The Water Bill will also reform the water sector to support growth and improve resilience, while ensuring it continues to attract long-term investment. It will introduce more competition in order to create a more innovative, efficient and dynamic sector which meets future demands and offers customers more choice and better service.

This Government are committed to delivering a new approach to flood insurance that is better than the statement of principles it will replace. I am determined to ensure, that one way or another, flood insurance is not just available but also that it is affordable. I believe that the proposals set out today will achieve this, and will for the first time provide real peace of mind to households at flood risk. With our investment in flood defence, and our approach to ensuring that only appropriate development takes place in flood risk areas, I am confident we have the right approach to tackling the long-term of risk of flooding.

Together our approach will help us build what we want to see—a stronger and more resilient economy in a fairer society.

Habitats Directive (Bats and Churches)

Lord Benyon Excerpts

Tuesday 25th June 2013 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Environment, Food and Rural Affairs (Richard Benyon)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Banbury (Sir Tony Baldry)for raising this important issue. It is always a pleasure to see him, but I was dismayed that not long ago he had to bring yet another delegation to my office—a Trollopian group of senior clerics and others—to talk about the problem yet again. I would have hoped it unnecessary to have this debate, but I recognise that the problem persists, and I hope to be able to reassure him that we are tackling it.

The simple way to look at the issue is to say, “We can interpret the regulations how we like, and if the European Union doesn’t like that, we will see it in court,” but that is not a sensible approach to such directives, as my hon. Friend well knows from his experience in my Department. The alternative is to seek to change the directive and its implications for churches and other places of worship. That approach may have merit, but it is a longer-term route down which we need to go in a proportionate way because, as I will go on to say, we should be mindful of the species that we are discussing and the serious declines that they have suffered. The third way is to seek to find a solution within the framework of the directive, but one that is quick and effective, and I hope to give him some comfort about that in the remaining minutes.

I stand by every word that I said in reply to my hon. Friend’s question in the House. It is clearly not acceptable that people’s rights to worship in buildings that were consecrated many centuries ago and are used for that purpose should be affected in such a way. Equally, it is not acceptable that priceless artefacts or the furnishings necessary for a church to function as a place of worship should be damaged or put at risk. He clearly outlined that that is happening in many churches because of the presence and impact of bats.

The way in which I look at churches has changed since the problem was brought to my attention. My mind now occasionally strays from the sermon, and I look up to see the impact that bats may be having in my church or elsewhere. In the vast majority of places of worship, it is managed perfectly well: either the quantity of bats is small or the species does not affect the premises, or the bats are properly dealt with by those who manage the building, but in all too many cases there is a serious problem. My hon. Friend is right to raise a problem that causes great distress to people who value places of worship not just for their heritage and religious importance, but for what they do for their communities.

Like my hon. Friend, I support bat conservation. As he said, bats are another of God’s creatures and are part of our natural heritage: 17 species of bat are resident and breed in the UK. I want to say a few words to put into context the protection that they enjoy before I turn to the specific issue of bats in churches. Until very recently, the number of bats in this country had suffered a dramatic decline, most notably because of changes to habitats, such as the loss of many of our hedgerows in the last century and the destruction or refurbishment of many traditional buildings. Those changes, particularly the loss or alteration of other old buildings, have resulted in bats increasingly making use of and seeking refuge in some older churches. In turn, those buildings have in some cases probably become more important to the survival of bats.

Although the presence of small numbers of bats in churches rarely causes any problem, larger numbers certainly can result in intolerable problems in some churches. Given the reduction in the number of bats and the threats that they face, all species of bat have been listed in the EU habitats directive, but as my hon. Friend said, there are a number of derogations from otherwise prohibited actions, including activities that cover public health and safety or the prevention of serious damage to property. Natural England is the licensing authority for such cases in England.

One or both of those tests would clearly seem to be met in the circumstances that we are discussing, but the directive and our implementing regulations require some checks and balances to ensure that harmful or unnecessary actions are not permitted, such as that the action must not negatively affect the conservation status of the species and that there are no alternatives to the actions proposed. Although many people may agree with my hon. Friend’s points about the likelihood of bats finding alternative roost sites and, indeed, about the unacceptability of the alternative of doing nothing, the tests are not easy to meet, as is clear from some European Court cases. Frustrating though that is, it is a fact.

As my hon. Friend and I have inferred, the problem may be that some affected populations are the rarest and are in locations of particular importance to the species. Like him, however, I simply do not believe that those who drafted the habitats directive intended to render places of worship unusable to congregations or to impose unreasonable financial burdens on them. That cannot have been the purpose of the directive, and we must find a way round it.

It is clear that the granting of permission—for example, to destroy a bat maternity roost by blocking access to it—might result in challenge and delay. Nobody, least of all parishioners, wants a long drawn-out debate; they want solutions. To achieve solutions and resolution to such intolerable problems sooner rather than later, we are taking action on two fronts. First, we are making sure that the guidance offered by Natural England and the national bat helpline is clear, proportionate and unambiguous. Secondly, we are undertaking specific actions at several churches to find means of moving bats away from sensitive areas.

Unfortunately, there are examples of costs and delays occurring, as my hon. Friend has mentioned. For that reason, I have asked Natural England to look again at the guidance that it provides to churches about the sort of operations that can take place without a licence or a bat survey. The figure that he mentioned of the cost to a small rural church is intolerable: the process has to be quicker and cheaper, which I am doing everything I can to ensure.

To make sure that unnecessary costs are not incurred, I have asked Natural England to provide guidance on the nature of surveys that may be required or the sort of actions to prevent impacts on bats. I believe that many problems come not from Government agencies, but organisations such as building companies or architects who say, “Oh, you need to do this,” or “You will get into trouble if you don’t do that.” We need to get to those people as well, because they advise church wardens and others about what they can and cannot do. There is a lot of misunderstanding about what is required.

I have also asked Natural England to look into reports of over-zealous advice being given to churches. It has assured me that it will investigate any such instances. I rely on my hon. Friend, in his position as the Second Church Estates Commissioner, to keep me informed of the dafter stories.

Better guidance will go a long way to minimising the impact of bats on most churches, but as we have heard, large populations of bats cause serious concerns in too many churches. In those cases, dealing with them is not just an expensive chore; they can make the church unusable at the worst times. That cannot continue, so we are funding research to find ways to move bats to less sensitive areas of churches.

In a two-and-a-half year project, a team led by Bristol university is investigating the combined use of deterrents and alternative roosting sites, such as bat boxes, to encourage bats to move away from sensitive areas in churches. The study, which is taking place in eight Norfolk churches, began in 2011, and the project trialled the use of three types of deterrent—lighting, acoustic and radar—last year. For those who think that we can just block bats out of churches, that is more difficult than they possibly imagine. Many of the buildings are mediaeval and have more ways in than we can imagine.

The most dramatic effects were found when using 500 W halogen lamps: the bats simply refused to come out of their roosts. That solves one problem, but it might create another by entombing the bats, possibly resulting in the presence of rotting carcases within the infrastructure of a church. Therefore, the Bristol university team will trial smarter uses of lighting this year to see whether such a relatively cheap method could be used effectively by churches.

Based on last year’s results, acoustic devices appear to present the best hope for a solution. To date, those devices have been used only for short periods, but they were effective in moving the bats from their maternity roosts to other parts of churches and, in some cases, in moving them out of churches. This year, acoustic devices will be used for longer periods to prove, I hope, that the bats do not habituate or get used to the devices and simply start to ignore them.

At the same time, Bristol university has initiated work to explore the use of a prototype acoustic device that would be portable and cheaper to use. I am hopeful that extended trials this year, together with the production of portable devices, will finally produce a permanent solution to the problems that many churches have had to put up with. I look forward to seeing the results of the work at the end of this year and to sharing those results with my hon. Friend and the Church. Those deterrents may not, however, provide solutions for all churches.

I conclude by mentioning one situation that my hon. Friend raised—that of St Hilda’s, Ellerburn, in North Yorkshire. St Hilda’s is a single vestibule building, and in such a case there is simply no possibility of moving bats to a less sensitive area. To resolve the problem there, Natural England has let a contract to gain the necessary evidence to enable the complete exclusion of bats from the church. It was hoped that the exclusion would occur before the bats begin to arrive in a week or two’s time, to avoid entombing the young bats. If, because of the unpredictable weather, insufficient data were gathered before the summer to support an exclusion at St Hilda’s, work will continue over the summer to ensure that there is enough information to reach an absolutely clear resolution of the problem in that church.

I very much appreciate this opportunity to outline a problem that I am absolutely determined to resolve. I really respect my hon. Friend for how he introduced the debate, and for his work to resolve this problem.