Nagorno-Karabakh

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 18th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Cox]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the situation in the Nagorno-Karabakh region.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the Minister for the European Neighbourhood has spoken four times to the Armenian and Azerbaijani Foreign Ministers, most recently in November, when she welcomed the cessation of hostilities. We recognise that both sides have had to make difficult decisions to ensure the safety and security of their citizens. We of course remain deeply concerned by allegations of war crimes, desecration of cultural heritage and the humanitarian situation, and continue to raise these with all concerned parties.

[Baroness Cox (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. However, is he aware that, despite the ceasefire, reports continue of atrocities perpetrated by Azerbaijani forces on Armenian military and civilian prisoners? During and since my visit, I have seen videos and photos of mutilations, torture and killings—there have been beheadings of Armenians—and heard of Azeris taking phones from prisoners, filming their torture and killings and sending these back to their families. Will Her Majesty’s Government act with great urgency to ensure that Azerbaijan is called to account for the continuing, well-documented atrocities, or will they allow Azerbaijan to maintain impunity?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Baroness that we continue to raise these issues at the highest level. My honourable friend Minister Morton, as well as my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, are fully engaged on this agenda. We are, of course, supporting the OSCE Minsk co-chairs in this regard. On a positive note, we also welcome the recent news of an exchange of prisoners of war that took place on 14 December. However, atrocities need to be fully looked at and investigated.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, Nagorno-Karabakh remains a frozen conflict and a continuing danger to regional peace. So far, our role has been limited, if not irrelevant. Can the Minister say whether we shall concentrate on human rights, religious toleration and the protection of civilians and religious sites?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that the points he made are important areas to consider, not just in this conflict but in any conflict. I also assure him that those very points have been made in all our exchanges, with both sides. We have also emphasised the unfettered access of the ICRC to the region.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, following up on that, can the Minister tell the House what access the ICRC and other international bodies are being given in the area, to guard against feared ethnic cleansing? What follow-up might there be to independently investigate possible war crimes committed by either side?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Baroness may know, on 30 October, the Foreign Secretary announced £1 million of funding to the ICRC to support its humanitarian efforts in this regard. We are working with international partners on the issue of access, to ensure that all people across the region receive the aid they require. It is important that crimes are fully investigated in any conflict, anywhere in the world. That is why we are very supportive of the work by the co-chairs of the Minsk Group of the OSCE in this respect.

[Lord Pickles (Con) [V]]

My Lords, following the recent ceasefire, Turkey suggested that it might deploy peacekeepers to the region. Does my noble friend agree that it is a prerequisite of a peacekeeper that they should enjoy the confidence of both sides? This is clearly not the case. What discussions have my noble friend and the Government had with the Turkish Government, our NATO partner, about how they might use their facilities to reduce tension within the region and ensure co-operation, so that those who have perpetrated war crimes and acts against humanity are brought to justice?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend on the principle that peacekeepers need to have the support of all sides to the conflict. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary and the Minister for the European Neighbourhood have engaged directly with their Turkish counterparts on the specific issue of Turkey.

[Lord Curry of Kirkharle (CB) [V]]

My Lords, we all share a deep concern and revulsion at the extent of these atrocities and lots of words have been spoken. However, it still appears that not enough pressure has been brought to bear to try to resolve this issue. Can the Minister confirm what international conversations he has had with the UN and others to bring more pressure to bear to resolve this dreadful situation?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, discussions have taken place at all levels. I have already mentioned the support given at the OSCE. There have also been discussions on this at the UN Security Council. The important thing is that the cessation and peace deal that has been negotiated holds, that there is a return of prisoners and that, ultimately, there can be peace in a region which has suffered from conflict for too long.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I have two quick points. Picking up on the question of the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State at the FCDO confirmed last month in a Written Answer that she had discussed humanitarian access with Russian Deputy Foreign Minister Titov. Can the noble Lord tell us a bit more about the outcome of those discussions? Also, last October we had an announcement of £1 million going to humanitarian support. Can he update us on how that money has been distributed, and on what success the United Kingdom has had in encouraging others to give humanitarian support?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, if I may, I will write to the noble Lord on the impact of the £1 million. On discussions, we are of course raising the need both for support for all refugees in this context and for support within the region. We continue to impress on all authorities the key issue of unfettered access, also raised by my honourable friend in Russia.

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD) [V]]

My Lords, atrocities have been reported on both sides. Of course they must be investigated and prosecuted, but this conflict has been frozen for nearly 30 years. The rights of Armenians must be protected, but so should the rights of the more than 600,000 Azeris who have been displaced for more than a generation within their own country. So does the Minister agree that the international community, while recognising Nagorno-Karabakh as an integral part of Azerbaijan, has failed to progress a long-term solution? What can be done to ensure that this settlement leads to a permanent resolution and does not become the seed of a renewed conflict?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the important point is that all occupied territories are vacated and that, ultimately, the rights of citizens within Nagorno-Karabakh are respected. In this regard it is our view, as I have said, that the Minsk process provides the basis on which this can be taken forward, and we implore all sides to co-operate fully.

[The Lord Bishop of Coventry [V]]

My Lords, as has been implied, thousands of Armenian monuments and cultural heritage sites are now under Azerbaijan’s control, including ancient churches, monasteries and cemeteries. There is evidence that Azerbaijan has already begun to deny the Armenian heritage of these sites, so what steps are the Government taking to support UNESCO in drawing up an inventory of the most significant cultural monuments, and have conversations been had with Azerbaijan about its responsibilities under the 1954 Hague Convention for the Protection of Cultural Property in the Event of Armed Conflict?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the right reverend Prelate that the protection of heritage and religious sites is an important part of the discussions that take place with both sides, including on the case of Nagorno-Karabakh referred to in his question. On the issue of UNESCO making a detailed assessment of specific sites, I will need to write to him.

[Baroness Eaton (Con) [V]]

My Lords, according to Genocide Watch’s 10 stages of the genocidal process, published in November, Azerbaijan had already reached stage 9, extermination, and stage 10, denial. What steps will Her Majesty’s Government take to fulfil their duty to protect and provide for the victims of Azerbaijan’s genocidal policies in the recent war?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have already said, I assure my noble friend that the Government have implored both sides to protect all citizens, particularly those in Nagorno-Karabakh, to make sure they have their rights protected and guaranteed. My noble friend will be aware that it is a long-standing government policy that genocide is a matter for judicial decision rather than for Governments or non-judicial bodies.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed. That brings us to the end of Question Time.

Foreign Policy: UK-EU Dialogue

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 14th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we have agreed with the European Union that we shall co-operate on current and emerging global issues of common interest, including co-ordinating positions and maintaining dialogue in multilateral organisations. We do not need overly institutionalised formal arrangements or a treaty framework within the EU to continue to co-operate closely with allies on foreign policy matters, including EU member states. We shall continue to discuss shared foreign policy challenges and threats and we look forward to a future relationship based on constructive co-operation between sovereign and independent allies.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

The 2019 political declaration, which the Prime Minister said he supported, proposed a partnership between the UK and the EU on foreign policy, security and defence matters. Why then did the United Kingdom not take forward a formal arrangement despite EU willingness? Will the Government now do so? If not, how do they plan to protect and promote our interests in Hong Kong or on sanctions and other issues?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the practical terms that the noble Baroness mentioned, she will be aware that we are working closely with EU partners and other allies on issues of sanctions and indeed issues relating to Hong Kong. The EU-UK Trade and Cooperation Agreement affirms our mutual commitment to democratic principles, the rule of law and human rights. As the noble Baroness will be aware, we are already working closely on many important issues—including issues of human rights, which are part of my portfolio—both bilaterally and through multilateral organisations.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, an unstable and unruly world needs strong alliances between countries seeking international stability and co-operation rather than competition. The Biden Administration will expect the UK not to behave in a way that weakens the EU. As all but six members of the EU are members of NATO, we have already integrated sufficient elements of our defence. Does the Minister agree that formal arrangements of co-operation between us on security and foreign policy are inevitable? He certainly did so in October 2019, when he strongly supported deep co-operation as set out in the revised UK-EU political declaration.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Lord will know from his own experience as a Minister and as a Defence Secretary, and as he rightly articulated, NATO is the cornerstone of our relationship on the defence of Europe and the democratic values that we stand for. We remain committed to and at the centre of that NATO alliance, working with EU colleagues as well as other nations, most notably the United States. I reiterate our commitment to co-operation with our EU allies and others on important issues that currently confront the world.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD) [V]]

My Lords, the Minister reiterates the Government’s commitment to co-operation with the European Union, but now that we no longer have a seat at the table, what mechanisms is the FCDO putting in place to ensure that we have regular contact with our bilateral partners in the EU 27 and individual member states?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have already alluded to in my original Answer, formality of mechanisms is not a necessity for having close alliances, not least as demonstrated by our alliances with the United States, Canada and Australia in our meetings through the Five Eyes. We will continue to co-operate with our EU colleagues, as we have done on important statements on the JCPOA and on support for human rights issues around the world, including a recent statement in relation to Xinjiang.

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con) [V]]

My Lords, is it not the case that, for the most part, the whole idea of a common EU foreign policy was always more of an aspiration or a myth than a reality, particularly when one looks at the divisions over EU policy towards Kosovo, Syria, Iraq and Russia, not to mention the shambles of EU policy towards Ukraine? Nevertheless, is it not possible and in our interest—without getting bogged down in the rather impractical bureaucracy of the common security and foreign policy—for there to be some formal mechanism for discussing policy with those with whom, after all, we share certain fundamental values as well as the same geographical space?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend speaks from insight and experience and I listen carefully to his suggestions. Let me assure him that we are already working closely with EU colleagues. As the new relationship evolves, I am sure that we will look at how we can further strengthen co-operation on the very issues that he has outlined for reasons of proximity. As my right honourable friend the Prime Minister said, we want to be the best ally and the closest friend of the EU.

[Baroness Deech (CB) [V]]

My Lords, of course co-operation is a good thing, but now that we are free, we can diverge for the better and hope to persuade the EU to take a better path; for example, in relation to China. Only yesterday, we heard of the atrocities taking place there from the Conservative Party Human Rights Commission, but the EU has signed an investment agreement with China disregarding its crimes. Does the Minister agree that we must form an Anglo-American alliance and other alliances against Chinese atrocities and against buying Chinese-tainted goods and technology?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Baroness’s point about creating alliances against the human rights abuses that we have seen in places such as Xinjiang and the continued suppression of democratic movements within Hong Kong, but it is not just about further strengthening our alliances with the US; it is about building international alliances and co-operation. Let me assure the noble Baroness that we are doing just that.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned the JCPOA, and, of course, with the new US Administration, there is renewed optimism that it could be revived. The Government have been working recently with France and Germany in relation to Iran’s non-compliance. Could this E3 format be extended to other areas of mutual interest and concern?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes a practical suggestion. I am sure that in time, as we see the strength of E3 co-operation and with the new Administration in the United States, there will be areas of further co-operation in this respect. We look forward to forging alliances with the E3 and with other European states, both bilaterally and within the context of the European Union, as well as with the new US Administration when it takes charge after President-elect Biden’s inauguration.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD) [V]]

My Lords, now that we are no longer members of the European Union, what influence will we have, for example, in preventing the creation of defence structures which would duplicate NATO?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we liaise closely not just on issues of defence but on other areas. The global human rights sanctions regime that we led on and that is now being taken forward by the European Union is a good practical example of that. We will continue to co-operate on defence and other matters with the EU to ensure non-duplication, as the noble Lord suggests.

[Baroness Ritchie of Downpatrick (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, can the Minister detail the nature of future structured or unstructured engagement with the EU on foreign policy around the issues of security and human rights?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I have already alluded to that, but I assure the noble Baroness that we engage regularly. As a Minister responsible for human rights, I engage personally with the European Union human rights lead, Eamon Gilmore, and will continue to do so.

[Baroness Helic (Con) [V]]

My Lords, just before Christmas, and after 16 years, the United Kingdom left the EU-led military mission to Bosnia-Herzegovina. Separately, there are reports that the FCDO expects to cut expenditure on its western Balkans programme from the current £80 million to under £50 million or possibly even £35 million. Can my noble friend the Minister confirm that these reports of cuts are true and, if so, can I urge the Government to reconsider this step, which would have a damaging effect on our influence in the region and with our allies and risk being interpreted as yet further proof that the United Kingdom is turning its back on the EU and the western Balkans?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we continue to engage on the Balkans. On the specifics of my noble friend’s question, I shall write to her.

[Lord Bilimoria (CB) [V]]

My Lords, the United Kingdom has one of the finest and largest diplomatic forces in the world, something of which we should be proud. Does the Minister agree that Britain has always been seen as a gateway to the EU and that now is an opportunity, with a new US Administration, for Britain to partner with the United States and the European Union on many areas, including security and foreign policy?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I totally agree with the noble Lord and I look forward to working with him on important priorities in terms both of trade and strengthening relationships, particularly in the Indo-Pacific region. Looking at the position of global Britain, it is worth reflecting that in under two years we have agreed 63 trade deals, which are valued at £885 billion. No country has done this; this is in less than two years. We still have trade deals being finalised with the United States and Australia to come. The picture for global Britain in terms of the facts on the ground is very positive. We look forward to strengthening our co-operation further with all partners across the world and working with your Lordships’ House, with the experience it brings, on strengthening global Britain and its place on the world stage.

[The Deputy Speaker (The Earl of Kinnoull) (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has now elapsed. We now come to the third Oral Question.

Hong Kong: National Security Law

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 7th January 2021 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper, and in so doing declare that I am vice-chairman of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Hong Kong and a patron of Hong Kong Watch.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con) [V]]

My Lords, as my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary made clear in his Statement on 6 January, the mass arrests of politicians and activists in Hong Kong are a grievous attack on Hong Kong’s rights and freedoms as protected under the joint declaration. These arrests demonstrate that the Hong Kong and Chinese authorities deliberately misled the world about the true purpose of the national security law, which is being used to crush dissent and opposing political views. The United Kingdom will not turn our backs on the people of Hong Kong and will continue to offer BNOs the right to live and work in the United Kingdom.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, as we have seen in the last 24 hours, there are many ways in which the precious gift of democracy can be trashed. Under the cover of such darkness, does the Minister agree that mass arrests by 1,000 security officers and police and the intimidation and arrest of lawyers, legislators and activists are the methods of a police state and a crushing and grievous attack on democracy, human rights and the rule of law, and require immediate, robust Magnitsky sanctions against those responsible and those who are collaborators? As we watch the unfolding tragedy of democracy being replaced by dictatorship, will the Minister spell out how, beyond the BNO scheme, we intend to honour our treaty obligations to uphold a high degree of autonomy in Hong Kong, now clearly violated under the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

The continued suppression of the right to protest and a real decrease in the rights to representation, through the actions against the legislative body and indeed the recent Acts and arrests, have been increasingly evident in Hong Kong. We will certainly look at Magnitsky sanctions in their broadest sense. I cannot speculate on the specifics, as the noble Lord will appreciate, but the UK has been clear that—whether in terms of a suspension of the extradition treaty or the imposition of an arms embargo—we are taking a comprehensive look to ensure that those who suppress the rights of the people of Hong Kong are dealt with in a manner reflective of the values that we stand for.

[Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I entirely support all that the noble Lord, Lord Alton, said about the concerning situation in Hong Kong. I am glad to hear of the Minister’s deep concerns about what has been taking place. On Monday I met Ted Hui, one of the lawmakers who has fled from Hong Kong, concerned about his safety if he remained. He has had his assets frozen by HSBC, as have his wife and parents, who fled with him into exile. Is the Minister aware of any private meetings that have taken place between his ministerial colleagues and HSBC since the bank announced its support for the national security law? Are we concerned that Beijing is co-opting banks and international companies that have strong positions here in Britain into supporting the security law and freezing the assets of people who have been arrested? What can be done with our allies—

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is taking time in this limited opportunity for other noble Lords.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, we are acting in conjunction with our allies and have led international action in condemnation of the actions not just in Hong Kong but in mainland China. We regularly meet financial services organisations and remind them of their obligations to all their clients, but it would be inappropriate for me to comment on one specific case.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, we led in the EU on adopting human rights sanctions. Since the UK has refused the EU’s offer of a formal arrangement to address foreign affairs, when and if we introduce Magnitsky sanctions, how do we ensure that the EU follows suit?

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, we are working closely with all our allies, including the EU. The noble Baroness will have noticed the recent statement made by the EU, but also by key countries such as Germany, condemning the actions in Hong Kong. On the specifics of sanctions and our human rights policy more generally, as I have assured her before, we will continue to work very closely with all our allies, including the European Union, on the important priorities that we give to human rights, not just in Hong Kong but across the world.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord McNicol of West Kilbride) (Lab)]

After the next speaker, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Garnier, I will call the noble Lord, Lord Collins.

[Lord Garnier (Con) [V]]

My Lords, as other noble Lords have said, democracy and respect for human rights in Hong Kong are being snuffed out in front of our very eyes. Does my noble friend the Minister agree that any further delay in deploying Magnitsky sanctions against those identifiable Chinese officials responsible for this will just be embarrassing?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, we will look at all instruments available to us. On the issue of Magnitsky sanctions, as I said, I cannot speculate on the specifics but we keep the issue under review. To my mind, sanctions work effectively only when we work with our allies specifically.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

Let us turn to the Minister’s last point. The United States has been able to introduce Magnitsky-style sanctions against Chinese Communist Party officials and Hong Kong executive members who are responsible for imposing these restrictions. Is the Minister aware of any obstacles or reasons why the Government have not acted, despite the calls across this House for the last six months for such sanctions to be introduced?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, as the noble Lord will be aware, we look at the sanctions policy specifically to ensure that the evidence base and thresholds are met. As I said, while I cannot go into specifics, we will continue to keep the situation under review—and, yes, act in co-ordination with our allies, including the United States, whose actions we observe closely in this respect.

[Lord Thomas of Gresford (LD) [V]]

My Lords, Title XII in Part 3 of the UK’s new deal with the EU provides that if the UK has “denounced”—that is the word used—the European Convention on Human Rights, the whole of Part 3 and all the security provisions cease to have force. Will the Government make representations to the European Commission not to approve the EU-China trade deal now before it unless there is a similar provision requiring China to abide by the current Hong Kong bill of rights—specifically its Article 16, on freedom of expression, and Article 17, on freedom of assembly? Will the Government ensure a similar provision in any trade deal between the UK and China?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, let me assure the noble Lord that human rights will be paramount in our discussions on a range of trade deals around the world. On the specific issues of our work with the EU and the decision it has taken on its trade deal, of course we make representations with European colleagues and will continue to do so while working closely with them in this respect.

[Lord Walney (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, does not this further egregious breach of the treaty between us show that China has wilfully broken the friendship that we have long nourished and is firmly set on a path to be not a friend but an adversary of this nation and all who wish to maintain a rules-based order in the decades ahead?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, China continues to be an important international and strategic partner, but where there are abuses of human rights or other challenges, issues and concerns, we will raise them candidly, both bilaterally and through international fora. If we look at issues around the environment and climate change, for example, it is important that China also acts in this respect.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

My Lords, it is about time that we got realistic about China. It is on a course of expansionism where it is threatening not only Hong Kong but Taiwan, and fortifying islands. Will the Minister not work hard to build a common front, which includes not only our traditional allies but the frontier states of the former Soviet republics and Russia itself? Unless we can get them on board, we will not effectively contain China.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My noble friend makes an important point. Let me assure him that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary and I are working hard, including in my capacity as Minister for Human Rights, to ensure that we broaden the alliance against the human rights situation that we see in Hong Kong and mainland China. We saw recently at the UN Third Committee an increase in the number of countries supporting the UK position, which I believe went from 28 to 39.

[Baroness Cox (CB) [V]]

My Lords, will the Minister tell us what initiatives Her Majesty’s Government are taking to lead efforts to build international co-operation and establish multilateral mechanisms for response, including the establishment of a UN special rapporteur to monitor and report on the human rights situation, as called for by many serving and former UN independent experts last year?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has been at the forefront of strengthening international alliances and action in this respect. I have already alluded to the progress we have made. The noble Baroness is right to raise the important issue of other representation within the context of human rights. I note in particular that the human rights commissioner recently put out a statement on the arrests. We continue to implore China to allow access for the human rights commissioner to China, to ensure that human rights can be respected and the world can see what is being done currently on many minorities within China.

[Baroness Warwick of Undercliffe (Lab)]

My Lords, given the Minister’s response to the noble Lord, Lord Alton, will the Government consider lodging a case against China in the International Court of Justice on the grounds that its actions in Hong Kong constitute a violation of the Vienna Convention on the Law of Treaties?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

As the noble Baroness may know, an issue at the International Court of Justice requires both parties to consent. It would not, to my mind, be an option that we should pursue because it is highly unlikely that China would consent to such actions.

[Lord Marlesford (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I declare an interest in Hong Kong that goes back to 1961, when I first went to work there. Does my noble friend agree that one lesson that applies to China and the USA is that, in any civilised nation state, the exercise of authority needs both the support and consent of the people? Does he also agree that China must be well aware that it was fortunate to inherit from Britain the world’s third most important financial centre, and that to flourish, such a tender plant needs sensitive treatment?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

I agree with my noble friend on his final point. As someone who worked in financial services for 20 years before joining the Government, I totally agree that Hong Kong has long been a centre for financial services. It is therefore appropriate that, in Hong Kong, the Chinese authorities look to create the conditions and environment that allow firms to flourish and that centre to progress. I equally share his views that we must ensure freedoms and protections. He cited his long experience since 1961; he has had more time in business than I have had on God’s earth. Nevertheless, I totally share his view and opinions in this respect.

[Lord Carrington (CB) [V]]

My Lords, while supporting every move by the Government to condemn the actions of the Hong Kong Government and to build up international pressure on the Government of China, I would like to receive reassurance that the Government recognise their responsibility for the interests and well-being of all the people of Hong Kong, and that any action they take does not directly or indirectly affect the ongoing business and livelihoods of its people and companies.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord that it is important that we consider our actions in the light of the situation in Hong Kong and, equally, the implications of our continuing relationship. However, it is right that, while we recognise China and Hong Kong as important financial centres and trade partners—and, as I have indicated already, an important international partner on issues such as climate change—it is also right that we call out human rights abuses wherever we see them, whether in mainland China, particularly in Xinjiang against the Uighurs, or as we currently see in the continuing suppression of democracy, human rights, freedom and the right to protest. It is right that we do so and we have a special obligation, particular to BNOs. I am proud of the fact that the Government are taking specific steps in this respect.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord McNicol of West Kilbride) (Lab)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked.

United States: Global Priorities and Climate Change

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 16th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Northover]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what engagement they have had with the incoming government of the United States on their global priorities, including plans for international co-operation on addressing climate change.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister spoke to President-elect Biden on 10 November and committed to building on our close and long-standing partnership in the years ahead in areas including trade and security. They look forward to working closely together on our shared priorities, including tackling climate change, promoting democracy and building back better from the coronavirus pandemic. The Prime Minister has invited President-elect Biden to COP 26 next year and we look forward to working closely with the US to address climate change.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

President-elect Biden’s decision to engage globally and to sign the United States back up to the Paris Agreement is obviously extremely welcome. How are the Government engaging with his team to ensure that the US restores the climate funding that President Trump cut, and what role will the United Kingdom play in the extra climate summit that President-elect Biden has just announced?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is right that the Biden Administration have already committed to rejoining the Paris Agreement—Vice-President-elect Kamala Harris has announced as much following a recent event. The noble Baroness will be aware of the climate ambition summit, which also saw participation from the US, and we remain committed to working closely with the US. Announcements from the US about commitments to finance will be very much a matter for the Biden Administration.

[Lord McConnell of Glenscorrodale (Lab)]

My Lords, I was delighted to see that the electoral college has confirmed President-elect Biden and Vice-President-elect Harris in their positions and that my namesake in the Senate has accepted the election result and finally agreed to endorse them. Vice-President Biden, as he then was, was the keynote speaker at a festival in Central Park in New York that I attended in September 2015 to celebrate the universal agreement in the United Nations that the sustainable development goals be achieved by 2030. When the Biden Administration come to the UK and look for action on the SDGs, will the UK Government, despite their wish to break their promise to the British electorate on overseas aid, keep their promise to the poor of the world and leave no one behind by delivering the SDGs by 2030?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I say to the noble Lord that the name McConnell carries as much weight in your Lordships’ House as it does in the US Senate. On the substantive issue of the SDGs, we remain committed to fulfilling and meeting our goals, and we continue to work with the US and other partners internationally in pursuit of that ambition.

[Lord Oates (LD) [V]]

My Lords, I declare my interests as set out in the register. Could the Minister tell the House what discussions the Government have had with the incoming US Administration on ensuring that the 2016 G7 pledge to phase out fossil fuel subsidies by 2025 is met, and can he confirm to the House that all UK fossil fuel subsidies will be removed by that point?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we are engaging with the incoming Administration in line with the mandates, rules and precedents in the United States. Once the Administration take formal leadership, we will engage on the issues the noble Lord has mentioned. We are engaging extensively with the current US Administration, as we will with the new Administration during our leadership of the G7.

[Baroness Fall (Con) [V]]

My Lords, there is a danger that if US troops leave Afghanistan ahead of the conclusion of the peace talks in Doha, the talks will fail. This will make a mockery of attempts to build lasting peace in the region after decades of sacrificing the lives of our service men and women. I urge the Minister that, as a trusted ally of the USA and a member of NATO, we impress upon the soon to be new President Biden the need to rethink the hurried withdrawal and link draw-down to progress with the peace talks.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend raises an important point. I assure her that we remain committed to the Afghan defence and security forces, and we will be working closely with all our NATO allies and partners, including the United States, on the peace negotiations currently taking place. On our specific commitment, my noble friend will be aware that we recently committed £70 million towards security, and at the recent pledging summit we committed a further £155 million towards development. We are all hoping for a strong, inclusive Afghanistan for the future.

[Baroness Boycott (CB)]

My Lords, it is well known that we aspire to a free trade agreement with America. Now that President Biden will be in the White House, what will the priorities of such a trade deal be? Will it now be easier to ensure that we keep high environmental standards for all products, particularly food?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we continue to enjoy strong discussions and progress in our trade negotiations with the US. Talks are at an advanced stage, and we remain committed and hopeful that we will complete our substantive negotiations in the first half of 2021. The noble Baroness is right to raise the importance of these issues and the joint shared priorities. We will focus on further strengthening the £230 billion of trade that already exists between the two countries.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, President-elect Joe Biden said that an effective foreign policy relies on leading

“not only by the example of our power, but by the power of our example”,

and he has an ambitious first 100 days programme. What are the Government doing to ensure that we work in tandem over those first 100 days? Also, the noble Lord mentioned the invite to COP 26. Could he say a bit more about whether the Government will be prepared to give President-elect Biden an important role at that conference, perhaps including chairing it?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we are proud of being co-chairs of COP 26—the noble Lord is, I am sure, aware that we are co-chairing COP 26 along with our colleagues from Italy. I am sure that as the new Administration come on board, given the commitment they have already shown to COP 26 and the various appointments being made, they will play a leading role in the run-up to COP 26 and at the event itself.

[Baroness Benjamin (LD)]

My Lords, America is a major producer of CO₂ emissions through the burning of fossil fuels. It also has vast deposits of thorium, a safer, cleaner and plentiful alternative to conventional nuclear fuel. So, did the Prime Minister and President-elect Biden discuss during their call the America’s thorium deposits and how thorium reactors can be deployed? If not, will it be the topic of their next conversation during COP 26?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, although I can feed into it, the Prime Minister will decide the nature of the agenda of his conversation with President-elect Biden as he takes office. What I can share is that the incoming Biden Administration have committed to net zero by 2050. The noble Baroness raises an important point about looking at alternatives, and I am sure that that will feature across the board in many conversations between the two countries.

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, the United States is our closest international ally and friend. I pay tribute to the current American ambassador, Woody Johnson, who has done a great job in building that relationship. Could the Minister please ensure that the British Embassy in Washington is made aware of the importance of the centenary of Northern Ireland in 2021 and does much more to promote Northern Ireland in the United States, just as the Irish Government promote the Republic of Ireland?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, I agree with the noble Baroness that the ambassador has played an incredible role. Equally, Ambassador Dame Karen Pierce, who is on the ground in Washington, is a very able diplomat whom I am sure will take on board the noble Baroness’s suggestion.

[Lord Vaizey of Didcot (Con)]

My Lords, I was struck that President-elect Biden has made Brian Deese, a climate policy expert, the head of his National Economic Council. Is this not a reminder to us all how important climate change is not just to the planet but to the British economy and the US economy? There are huge opportunities for us to co-operate economically.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

First, I welcome my noble friend to your Lordships’ House—this is the first time he has asked me a question, and I agree with him. The statements we are seeing and the various nominations, which will need to be ratified through the normal process in the US, demonstrate the importance to the incoming Administration of the climate change issue, which we welcome.

[Baroness D'Souza (CB) [V]]

My Lords, would the Minister agree that the expectation of a full and rapid return to liberal policies by the Biden Administration might be a bit unrealistic? With this in mind, have Her Majesty’s Government as yet held any discussions with the new the Secretary of State and/or his department on a likely China policy?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Baroness will be aware, the new Administration have not yet taken office, but I am sure we will be discussing a range of important issues, as she suggests.

[Baroness Goudie (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I am sure the Minister is aware of the She campaign. Over 400 female climate leaders, including from the United States, have called for gender equality in the leadership of COP 26 from all countries, including our own at the top. Can the Minister give an assurance that we will have gender equality in leadership, which we do not have now?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I speak on behalf of my right honourable friend the Prime Minister, and I remember his commitment to this agenda when he was Foreign Secretary. It starts from the bottom up, and his commitment to girls’ education demonstrates his commitment to this important priority. I am sure that, as we build up to COP and at the event itself, the point the noble Baroness makes on gender will be reflected in representations not just from the UK but across the globe.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked. We now move to the next Question.

International Human Rights Day

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 10th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we are marking International Human Rights Day with activities in the United Kingdom and overseas. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary will have more to say on our plans later today. Tomorrow, I will be hosting an event with human rights groups. We fully support this year’s UN theme of ensuring that human rights are central to Covid-19 recovery efforts. The pandemic has exacerbated many global challenges, underscoring the need for British leadership to protect, promote and strengthen human rights. We are committed to acting as a force for good in the world.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns (Con)]

My Lords, human rights defenders are the most effective partners for achieving sustainable human rights change. Will my noble friend ensure that support for them will now be built into all FCDO priority campaigns, and will he consider committing to a strategic approach to supporting human rights defenders, as exists for other human rights work?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend makes a very important point and I share her view that human rights defenders go across all pillars of human rights priorities. Earlier this week I had a very constructive meeting with Amnesty International on this very issue. I assure my noble friend that I am looking to our key partners in that sphere to see how we can strengthen the various human rights pillars, be it media freedom, freedom of religion, addressing gender- based violence or LGBT rights. There are so many areas where human rights defenders play a brave role in the field, and it is right that we defend them.

[Lord Cashman (Non-Afl) [V]]

My Lords, today is International Human Rights Day, but not for trans people. In the United Kingdom, trans women and trans men face unrelenting organised attacks, defamation and blatant misrepresentation, which has created a climate of fear, sadly whipped up by some Members of your Lordships’ House. The attack is now on trans teenagers and their parents. Will the Minister discuss with other ministerial colleagues across government what legal protections can be afforded to trans people in the United Kingdom to allow them to live their lives without fear or harm and enjoy their human rights?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The noble Lord highlights a very disturbing issue. It is right that, when we go out and defend human rights—particularly the rights of the LGBT community—we stand up for rights at home. I will certainly take those concerns forward. If he is aware of particular issues or cases, I ask him to write to both me and my right honourable friend the Minister of State for the Home Office. I assure him that, as a co-chair of the Equal Rights Coalition alongside Argentina, we are sharing best practice and promoting LGBT rights equality globally. Even in countries such as Pakistan, we have seen transgender legislation being brought forward, which is encouraging for a country that is substantially challenged on a whole range of human rights.

[Baroness Hodgson of Abinger (Con) [V]]

Does the Minister agree that it is often women and children who bear the brunt of day-to-day human rights abuses, especially during conflict? Covid has contributed to putting women in more danger of being abused and of their rights being pushed back, so it is imperative that the excellent UK work on PSVI and women, peace and security continues. Can my noble friend the Minister confirm that gender issues and putting women and girls at the heart of international development—beyond just education, worthy though that is—will remain central to the work of the merged department and the decreased aid budget?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

In the interests of brevity, the short answer to my noble friend is: absolutely. PSVI and women, peace and security are central to our thinking and we have raised these issues and priorities, including ICAN support for the protection framework for women mediators. They will be central to our work in places such as Yemen, Afghanistan and South Sudan.

[The Earl of Sandwich (CB) [V]]

I thank the Minister for what he does for human rights every day. Does he share my concern about continuing discrimination in India against Muslims, Christians and other minorities such as the Dalits and the Adivasis, and the impact that this has on India’s international status and Commonwealth profile? Is there anything that the FCDO has done or can do about this?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I can confirm for the noble Earl that we raise human rights concerns across the globe. We have very constructive relations with India; in that respect, we raise our candid concerns about human rights in India. I assure him that the issue of human rights, particularly freedom of religion, is enshrined in the Indian constitution, and we continue to engage very constructively on this agenda with India.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, I commend the Minister’s commitment in this field and that of his predecessor, the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay. Does he agree that there is great value in giving young people an appreciation of the importance of human rights? To that end, would he consider relevant educational initiatives, such as including a human rights component in curriculums and encouraging schools to invite speakers with a known human rights commitment to speak to them—particularly those with personal experience of human rights violations?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I thank the noble Lord for his kind words. I join him in paying tribute to my predecessor in this role, who played a vital role on a whole range of human rights priorities. The noble Lord has some very practical suggestions. I assure him that I will take them back and write to my opposite number in the Department for Education to see how we could best take that forward.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister will have read the concluding statements from Andy Heyn, the consul-general in Hong Kong, on the restriction on dissent that he has seen during his time there and the fundamental changes that that has brought about in Hong Kong. What chances does the Minister see for the continuation of the vital independence of the judiciary there?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness and I have had many a conversation on this issue. Of course, the instigation of the national security laws has caused great concern, including about the appointment of judges, which now sits with the Chief Executive. That is a concern. I cannot say what the future holds; that would be mere speculation. What is important is that we continuously remind the Hong Kong authorities of the importance of the independence of the judiciary.

[Baroness Helic (Con) [V]]

My Lords, as we mark Human Rights Day, hundreds of political prisoners, many of them women, are incarcerated by our ally and trade partner, the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. One of them is Loujain al-Hathloul, who has been in prison since 2018. As I speak, she is appearing in front of a terrorism court in Saudi Arabia. I know that the UK Government have raised the case with the Government of Saudi Arabia, but can my noble friend the Minister tell the House what answer was received and what steps will be taken next? Will Ministers use the opportunity of a new Administration in the United States to work actively to secure Ms al-Hathloul’s release and that of other activists like her?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I share my noble friend’s concern. I and my right honourable friend the Minister for the Middle East and North Africa have consistently raised the issue of human rights defenders, particularly women human rights defenders. At least five women human rights defenders remain in detention in Saudi Arabia. We raise these cases. My noble friend makes a practical suggestion; again, with a new Administration coming in, we continue to look at how we can work constructively with Saudi Arabia in raising these concerns on a regular and consistent basis.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I would like to follow up on the question from the noble Baroness, Lady Hodgson, on sexual violence, and the Minister’s response. The 2020 report of the UN Secretary-General found that domestic legislation in many countries meant that justice was still too often not served. What is the Minister’s department doing about that? Is it offering technical support to countries, either multilaterally or bilaterally, to address this issue?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

As the Prime Minister’s representative on PSVI, this is an issue very close to my heart. I assure the noble Lord that we are looking at all elements, including technical support. As we move out of conflict, that is when the laws, regulations and constitutions of countries are created. They must be all-inclusive, which is why women mediators in particular have to be central and pivotal to that cause.

[Lord Woolf (CB) [V]]

My Lords, I refer to my interests as disclosed in the register. Does the Minister agree that the reason why this country should wholeheartedly support this United Nations international Human Rights Day is that this country’s unwritten constitution has developed the observance of the rule of law and human rights and has become increasingly critical of efforts to restrict their applicability?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

At this juncture, I have to say, I totally agree with the noble and learned Lord. We are proud of our traditions in this respect.

[Lord Leigh of Hurley (Con)]

On 2 December, the UN General Assembly once again neglected the human rights repression by serial abusers such as Iran, China and Russia and devoted an entire session to deriding Israel. The five resolutions voted on in that session are yet more distractions from tragedies unfolding in many countries but, unlike Canada and our other allies, the UK voted against only one of them. Does the Minister agree that it is time for the UK to stand up not just against item 7 but against oppressive regimes by introducing resolutions that condemn human rights abuses?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I totally agree with my noble friend that we need to consider and show leadership on resolutions against repressive regimes. He is right to raise the issue of the Human Rights Council and item 7. We have seen an incremental change and I feel very strongly on a personal level that resolutions, particularly those of a technical nature, need to be looked at. This is not just about creating bureaucracy; it is about creating effective change on the ground. We must hold regimes, wherever they are in the world, that are repressive towards human rights to account and make sure that the perpetrators of crimes are brought to justice.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Lexden) (Con)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has now elapsed.

Malaria Vaccine

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 9th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Young of Norwood Green]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, further to reports on the development of a vaccine for malaria, what plans they have to continue to meet their commitment to spend £500 million a year on addressing that disease.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord and your Lordships’ House that fighting malaria remains a priority for this Government. There are very encouraging reports, and I congratulate all scientists in the UK who are working towards the creation of a malaria vaccine, which would be a game-changer in our vital work to protect the world’s most vulnerable people. While my department does not directly fund malaria vaccine development, our investments in multilateral organisations, including the WHO, UNITAID and Gavi, have recently contributed to a malaria vaccine candidate being piloted in three African countries.

In relation to the spending review, as communicated only last week, we are working through our priorities and will be able to provide more information in the new year. That said, we are very much concerned that the knock-on effect of the Covid-19 pandemic poses additional threats to progress on malaria and other causes of preventable death. We cannot stand by and let that happen.

[Lord Young of Norwood Green (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply; I am sure that he agrees with me that the impact of malaria, which kills hundreds of millions of people a year, is probably even worse than the Covid epidemic. Can the Minister confirm that the proposed reduction in the overseas aid budget will not impact the funding of this vital vaccine, which will do so much to enhance the reputation of the United Kingdom overseas?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that I agree with him on the important work being done to fight malaria. I have been involved in some of the direct campaigns, and we have seen some real benefits. In relation to the ODA reduction, as I said during the repeat of the Statement in your Lordships’ House, there will of course be reductions across the budgets. We are currently working through that exercise, and my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary is overseeing that programme directly. At this point, as I have said previously in your Lordships’ House, I cannot give the specific commitment that the noble Lord desires, but we hope to have more details of our planned priorities and spend, including important projects that we will be protecting, in the new year.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, this is very good news. My question to the Minister is on the cost of a vaccine. The Government have signed up to COVAX to allow for the procurement of vaccines at a negotiated price from vaccine manufacturers on behalf of low and middle-income countries. Will this apply to the malaria vaccine we have been discussing, and will costs to the countries involved—mainly in sub-Saharan Africa—be kept as low as possible?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord—the leadership that the United Kingdom has shown on equitable access in relation to the Covid-19 vaccine certainly underlines our commitment to ensuring that the most vulnerable receive the vaccines required. On the malaria vaccine, we are working closely through multilateral organisations that fund the continued research into and testing of those vaccines. I agree with the noble Lord that, as these vaccines come online, it is important that they are game-changers on the ground, particularly in the most vulnerable parts of the world. We should ensure the lowest cost for and equitable access to those vaccines.

[Lord Dholakia (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his opening Answer. Whenever there are cuts in public expenditure, the first things to suffer are projects connected with research and training. I read very carefully the letter circulated yesterday by the Foreign Secretary, where he stated his hopes to provide £10 billion, which takes into account funds to fight coronavirus, Ebola and malaria. Can the Minister indicate what proportion of funds would be available for tackling malaria and ensuring that the valuable work that has already been done is not lost? What is the likely impact of cuts on projects related to malaria in future years?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I cannot provide the noble Lord with specific numbers at this time, as I said earlier. However, we should not only bank but look to strengthen the successes we have seen in fighting malaria. We have provided extensive support, particularly through multilateral organisations, and there are programmes that work well, but some perhaps not as well as was intended. In the ODA scoping exercise, we want to ensure that we get the maximum return from the important steps forward and progress made in relation to malaria so that we can continue to provide the most vulnerable in the world with the support that they need—particularly because, as the noble Lord knows, those impacted by malaria are primarily in the developing world and are often mothers, pregnant women and young children.

[Lord Randall of Uxbridge (Con) [V]]

My Lords, I am delighted to hear of Her Majesty’s Government’s ongoing commitment in this area. If or—let us hope—when this breakthrough comes, can my noble friend assure me, as best he can, that our commitment will even include delivering the vaccine to make sure that it gets to all those countries? Will we work with other European countries to ensure that it goes to those sub-Saharan countries?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend is right to raise the issue of distribution—I must admit that, with the current pandemic, I have been on a journey in relation to learning about the distribution of vaccines. I have also been heartened to hear that some of the areas I cover, such as Pakistan, have been able to take what they have learned from polio eradication and vaccine distribution and apply that to the Covid-19 challenge. It is that kind of positive engagement and learning that we need to ensure that, in the hardest parts of the world, including sub-Saharan Africa, where it is difficult to reach the most vulnerable, we can apply what we have learned and work with key partners to deliver that vaccine, as my noble friend said.

[The Lord Bishop of Newcastle]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his answers, but I am concerned that he cannot give a specific commitment that the cut in development aid funding will not affect the development of this vaccine. Does the Minister accept that now is not the time to slacken our efforts in the search for a malaria vaccine? We have heard of hopeful improvements before, but history has shown that complacency and slacking off will lead to resurgence. Does the Minister also accept that it has taken us more than four decades to recover the ground lost since the 1970s, when anti-malaria funding dried up, and that we must not allow that to happen again?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate raises an important element and I share her concern about ensuring that we can sustain the wins that have been gained in fighting malaria. As I said in an earlier answer, one primary area where we have seen success is in our work through multilateral organisations. I am sure that the right reverend Prelate will have seen our recent support for the World Health Organization, for example, and the strength, political capital and money that we have put behind the COVAX Facility. Only this morning, I was talking to a Caribbean Foreign Minister about ensuring equitable development of the vaccine—we of course support that, but we also support equitable access and distribution, which will remain priorities. I have been very open about not being able to give specific figures for our support for fighting malaria because we are still going through that process at the FCDO, but we do provide support through various funds that will continue to support the important development of the vaccine, I am sure.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, this is a success story. The UK is the second largest international donor to the fight against malaria: 7.6 million lives have been saved, and 1.5 billion cases prevented. The noble Baroness, Lady Sugg, in her recent letter to Boris Johnson, emphasised that cutting the UK aid budget from 0.7%,

“will diminish our power to influence other nations to do what’s right.”

In 2021 we have the UK-hosted G7, and CHOGM in Rwanda—an opportunity for this country to give a clear lead. Will the Minister at least say that we will continue to give such a lead, and to encourage other countries to step up in the fight against malaria?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, when the noble Lord started, calling this a success story and talking about facts and figures, I thought he had stolen a bit of my brief. I certainly welcome his strong support and recognition. Equally, he is right to challenge the Government to ensure that, with the major conferences and other events happening next year, we continue to show leadership, through our chairing of the G7, through CHOGM—as Commonwealth Minister, that is very much at the top of my mind—and, of course, as we lead into COP 26. I assure the noble Lord that, although there is a reduction in the financial spend, we should, and will, continue to leverage all our diplomatic capability to ensure that these important priorities are understood, not just by our development partners but by other member states, in their support for various campaigns around the world. As the noble Lord knows, we remain among the most generous of G7 donors in such development support and leadership.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, I declare my interest as an officer of the APPG for Africa and a member of the APPG on Malaria and Neglected Tropical Diseases. I commend to the House the work of Jeremy Lefroy and his leadership in persisting with these causes. I welcome the progress that the Oxford team is making in leading on the vaccine, and in proposing to test nearly 5,000 children in Africa. Every two minutes a child dies of malaria in Africa. Is the Minister aware of the concerns expressed publicly by some African leaders who have said that they will co-operate fully on the basis of there being the highest standards of compliance and consent, to safeguard any such trials? I thank the Minister for his assurance to the House. Will he continue to assure our partners across Africa, to address any scepticism?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is right. As I said to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, it is important that, although we have taken difficult decisions on the ODA budget, we continue to leverage to the utmost our diplomatic efforts to ensure that the priorities remain, through our multilateral partners and other member states, and to provide the level of reassurance that she described in Africa, and also compliance within countries. I have been proud of the leadership we have shown, particularly in supporting multilateral funds such as the Global Fund, which, as she knows, has helped to fight AIDS, TB and malaria, particularly in Africa. We are proud of that relationship. As we look at revising our ODA spend, I assure the noble Baroness that, when we face challenges on finance, we will look to bridge those gaps through extensive diplomatic engagement and leadership in that area.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Russell of Liverpool) (CB)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked. We will now pause for a minute before the next piece of business.

Hong Kong: Sentencing of Pro-democracy Activists

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 8th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome this Answer. It is important that we send a united message opposing attempts to erode the rights and freedoms of the people of Hong Kong. Yesterday, my honourable friend Lisa Nandy asked Nigel Adams about the development of a co-ordinated response involving our Five Eyes partners, including the new US Administration. Can the noble Lord say more than simply,

“the Foreign Secretary will … be having conversations with his counterpart”?—[Official Report, Commons, 7/12/20; col. 591.]

Have there been any direct discussions with the Biden transition team about the human rights situation in Hong Kong? My honourable friend Chris Bryant yesterday expressed his frustration at Ministers continuing to say that they could not speculate about future sanctions designations. I am sure that the noble Lord will follow the same mantra. If he cannot say who, will he at least commit to when? It is important that we act quickly.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Collins, for his remarks about a united response. I thank both him and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, for their continuing engagement—not just within the Chamber, but more widely—on this important issue of human rights and on our relationship with China and the situation there.

The noble Lord asked about the important area of our ongoing relationship with the US. As he will be aware, we came together with key partners, including the US, Australia and New Zealand, over the situation in Hong Kong. We valued their support. We are going through a transition period with the US. My honourable friend in the other place was correct; my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has engaged on this agenda with the incoming US Administration. I also assure the noble Lord that we are continuing with the operational elements of our approach. I have had some meaningful exchanges with the State Department, and we are working closely with our US partners even during this transition period.

The noble Lord again pressed me about the human rights sanctions regime. We are looking at situations across the globe. The intent behind this regime is to look not at a country as a whole but at specific individuals and organisations. I am sure we shall continue to keep those aspects in mind, whatever sanctions are brought forward in future. He asked about the timeline. Patience is a virtue, and I hope that his virtue will not be tested for too long.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, I also welcome the Statement. We all share the Government’s concerns. Joshua Wong has been imprisoned for more than a year. As my honourable friend Wendy Chamberlain flagged up yesterday, under the Government’s current Immigration Rules, that would mean that he was barred from claiming asylum. Will the Government commit to following the Canadian Government and ensure that those charges are not a barrier to vulnerable activists being able to claim asylum in the United Kingdom? The Minister in the Commons responded sympathetically to my honourable friend, but he did not have an answer. I am sure that the noble Lord has looked at Hansard to see what happened in the Commons yesterday. I hope he has a better answer. If he does not, perhaps he can write to us.

Eight students have been arrested for protesting peacefully on university campuses. This reinforces how young people are particularly vulnerable to arrest under the national security law. Therefore, will the Government amend its BNO visa scheme to allow those born after 1997 to apply?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we have already clarified our position on the BNO status of those born after a given date but who have a direct relationship with someone with that status. They will be considered when the scheme becomes operational. As the noble Baroness knows, that will be from 31 January 2021. As she will appreciate, the three activists—Joshua Wong, Agnes Chow and Ivan Lam—have not been charged under the new national security law. They accepted the charges levelled against them. Inasmuch as I can at this juncture, I assure her that we look at any asylum application to the United Kingdom on the merits of the particular case. If I can provide her with further details, I will write to her, as she suggested.

[Viscount Waverley (CB) [V]]

My Lords, the Minister referred to the broader relationship with China. The Government were defeated twice in the House of Lords last night over trade deals with China. They have a piecemeal, open-handed approach to their relationship with a country that views democracies and free media as potential threats to its regime, and that is a master at leveraging economic statecraft to strategic effect. Will the Government therefore recognise that a new basis for managing this relationship should not include mutually hawkish policies, but rather be built on consistency, reciprocity and fairness, embracing relationship- building with a whole-government approach that is accepted as a necessity, not a luxury?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, it is important to look at our relationship with China from a strategic perspective. As I have said before from the Dispatch Box, the UK wants a mature, positive relationship with China. China is an important member of the international community and a P5 member of the UN Security Council. Its size, rising economic power and influence also make it an important partner in tackling some of the biggest global challenges. As we have already seen on Covid-19, there is an immense scope for co-operation. As we look forward to 2021, the recent announcements that have been made by the Chinese Government provide enormous scope for positive, constructive engagement and wide-ranging opportunities, from trade to co-operation on tackling climate change. China of course is important as we strive to achieve the goals and ambitions that we have set out for COP 26.

In that strategic relationship, it is absolutely right that we protect our own vital interests, including support and our sensitive infrastructure. Equally, we will not accept investment that compromises our national security. And, as we have repeatedly said, in international fora such as the UN Third Committee or the Human Rights Council, where we have direct concerns—whether on Xinjiang in China, or Hong Kong, as we are discussing today—we will raise them. We will raise them bilaterally, in multilateral fora and in partnership with key countries and other member states, because it is important that we speak up against the suppression of human rights, wherever it occurs.

Colombia

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 7th December 2020 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the noble Baroness and look to working with her on this important agenda. Colombia is an FCDO human rights priority country and we raise human rights with the Colombian Government’s representatives whenever possible. Indeed, I discussed the issue at length with Ministers, relevant institutions and civil society during my virtual visit to Colombia on 13 October. We are also proud to lead on Colombia’s peace process at the UN Security Council and have contributed £60 million in support of peace, stability and security since 2015.

[Baroness Blower (Lab) [V]]

I thank the Minister very much for his Answer, and refer to my interest as recorded in the register. The peace process is clearly vital. A recent newspaper report in Colombia, revealing details of an undercover operation by the Colombian Attorney-General’s office, apparently designed to entrap FARC peace negotiators and undermine the peace process, is alarming. The Attorney-General’s office, led by Néstor Humberto Martinez, reportedly provided five kilos of cocaine for the operation, but this and other relevant information was withheld from the courts. Was the British Ambassador—or other British authorities—made aware of those details at the time of the arrest of the FARC peace negotiator in 2018? What is the Government’s assessment of these revelations?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

As the noble Baroness will appreciate, I am not going to comment specifically on press reports. In terms of the specifics of the case, she raises important challenges that Colombia continues to face. The issue of narcotics and drugs is a major one. Colombia remains one of the largest producers of cocaine in the world—among others. The violence that we currently see affects local communities and former FARC combatants, led by the issues we have seen around drugs. We remain committed to peace accords, which the current President and his team have assured us of. On the specific matter of the case the noble Baroness raises, if there is more information to share, I will write to her.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns (Con)]

My Lords, I was privileged to meet brave journalists when I visited Colombia—people such as Jineth Bedoya. Can my noble friend say what support the Government now give to the Colombian Foundation for Press Freedom and how effective they assess that to be in the face of the continuous threats of rape, kidnap and death that journalists face?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

My Lords, I first pay tribute to my noble friend for her leadership, during her tenure as Minister of State at what was the FCO, on a broad range of human rights and for standing up for human rights defenders. Indeed, in my virtual visit, my first meeting was with journalists, to ascertain and understand more effectively the challenges they have. We are aware of allegations that members of the Colombian military have been illegally gathering surveillance on activists, including journalists and opposition politicians. We have raised this directly with the Colombian authorities. We are lending technical support and will be raising the issue of journalist freedom and press freedom across the piece in our leadership role on the coalition for media freedom.

[Baroness Coussins (CB)]

My Lords, the UK has spoken up in the Security Council about the special jurisdiction for peace, but can the Minister say what public support has been given by the UK embassy in Bogotá to this war crimes tribunal, in light of attempts by President Duque to undermine its work?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

I pay tribute to the noble Baroness’s work in this area. The United Kingdom has provided, and continues to provide, support to help Colombia tackle, in particular, the legacy of sexual violence from its long conflict. The UK continues to support survivors and has now helped document 1,200 new cases that are now before the transitional justice system. Let me assure the noble Baroness, that in my visit to Colombia I made it absolutely clear that, while this is an independent judicial body, it should not be interfered with. We continue to stand up for the rights of all survivors of sexual violence during the period of conflict.

[Lord Monks (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, I declare an interest as vice-president of Justice for Colombia. The transitional justice court, which was created in Colombia by the peace agreement, has been hailed by the International Criminal Court as a benchmark for the world. Is our Government aware that the Colombian Government are undermining the court’s mandate? Of course, this is in a country where there is still widespread violence. Does the Minister agree that ending the court’s ability to function fairly rather contradicts HMG’s funding to support the peace process? What steps can the UK take to protect the court’s autonomy?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that during my visit, and indeed in all engagements through our ambassador, we raise the importance of the very matters that he refers to. In terms of our commitment to the peace process, I think the UK can be proud of the fact that it has contributed to the importance of an inclusive peace process, and we will continue to do so.

[Baroness Northover (LD) [V]]

Global Witness has found that Colombia is the world’s most dangerous country for environmental activists, with more 60 murders in 2019. How are we engaging to help protect these activists, and combating climate change in Colombia generally?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I said in my opening Answer, Colombia remains a human rights priority country. I agree with the noble Baroness that the statistics are quite shocking. In the latest figures the UN has released, at least 45 human rights defenders have been killed this year alone. That said, we are working very closely with Colombia on the importance of protecting the environment and tackling climate change. Our climate programme in Colombia is designed with a conflict-sensitive approach. Much of its aims are to protect Colombia’s biodiversity, but also to protect those who are leading important roles within country.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, Colombia’s supreme court has declared that state security forces systematically violate citizens’ democratic right to peaceful protest, and the Colombian army has this year been implicated in killings in rural areas. Given that the UK is providing funding to train Colombian police, are steps being taken to ensure that human rights concerns about the Colombian security forces are properly addressed?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My short answer to the noble Lord is that yes, they are, but the concerns he has raised are real and he is quite right to bring them to the Floor of the House. I can assure him that in all the exchanges we have, including our support, be that financial or technical, the issue of human rights obligations among those who are trained and are there to protect people is very much at the forefront of our discussions.

[Baroness Hooper (Con) [V]]

My Lords, in aiming to help to strengthen and reinforce democratic principles and the rule of law in Colombia, can my noble friend say whether the British Council is playing a significant role? Is that part of the Government’s assessment process which he has already outlined?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we have an extensive programme, but on the specific and ongoing engagement of the British Council, I will write to my noble friend.

[Viscount Waverley (CB) [V]]

My Lords, keeping Colombia at centre stage and supported is much needed after long agony. The Minister has referred to the question of drugs. Could the Government assist by helping to provide essential access to markets for Colombian farmers as a substitution for the growing of coca and, if so, how might this be achieved? This would be in addition to encouraging that all FARC combatants stay engaged with the peace process and that the ELN comes to the table, along with supporting measures to ensure that human rights are respected, with the possible deployment of UK police, with their professionalism, to offer training and support to the Colombian authorities.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Viscount has made some very practical suggestions that I will certainly take forward. On the general point of how we can shift those who are reliant on the drugs trade within Colombia to alternative means, that is again a very practical suggestion and I can assure him that through our work on the ground, in particular through the embassy, we are working on identifying appropriate measures that can be taken to ensure that we can act responsibly and move people away from narcotics and other drugs.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op) [V]]

My Lords, as the Minister said earlier, we have an important role as a member of the UN Security Council. Will he go back to the council and ask for a new initiative via the United Nations to approach President Duque Márquez to persuade him to get the peace process moving again? If we could do that, as a result of this important Question, the United Kingdom would be making a very significant move in the right direction.

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I shall certainly be happy to take that back to the UN Security Council.

[Lord Alderdice (LD) [V]]

My Lords, do Her Majesty’s Government accept the description of the head of the UN Mission in Colombia, Carlos Ruiz Massieu, of an

“epidemic of violence against social leaders, human rights defenders and former combatants”?

If so, what are they doing to address the situation, especially as regards the Colombian security forces?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I have already spoken to this issue and I agree with the noble Lord that the situation for human rights defenders is dire. We remain deeply concerned about the continuing presence of illegal armed groups in Colombia and their violence and intimidation, particularly towards local people, let alone human rights defenders. However, as I have already said, I can assure the noble Lord that all our support is inclusive, particularly as we continue to press the existing Government and the president for a renewal and real vigour behind the peace talks. In all their actions, the important work of human rights groups and human rights defenders, and more generally the citizens of Colombia, should be totally and fully protected.

[The Deputy Speaker (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)]

My Lords, the time allowed for this Question has elapsed. We come to the fourth Oral Question in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Bird.

Conflict Minerals (Compliance) (Northern Ireland) (EU Exit) Regulations 2020

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 7th December 2020 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay]

That the draft Regulations laid before the House on 15 October be approved.

Relevant document: 31st Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments (special attention drawn to the instrument). Considered in Grand Committee on 2 December.

Motion agreed.

Ethiopia: Northern Tigray Region

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 2nd December 2020 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper. In doing so, I declare my interest as the vice-chairman of the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Eritrea.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, an initial Tigray humanitarian preparedness plan has been prepared by the United Nations. A comprehensive assessment of the humanitarian needs across Tigray has not yet been possible. We are encouraged that an assessment mission co-ordinated by the UN is scheduled to commence later this week, and this follows efforts by the UK and others to press for implementation of the assessment. We have also contributed to the UN guiding principles presented to the Government of Ethiopia on humanitarian access, with a view to the delivery of assistance for civilians.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Can I press him further on the issue of the humanitarian corridor? Will this conform to United Nations principles of neutrality, and will access be granted to our diplomats to visit Tigray? Secondly, how do we intend to hold to account those who have been responsible for the torture of refugees, the forced reform of refugees and some pretty barbaric acts which have been carried out against some of those who have escaped from Tigray?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, of course the situation at the moment does not allow for a full assessment. But let me assure him of this: we will certainly continue to press that any perpetrators of such acts are brought to justice. On his point about humanitarian corridors, we are liaising closely with the UN humanitarian organisations to establish what, if any, additional support is needed to press for diplomatic channels in particular—which we have been doing—to allow for the principles that he has articulated. It is integral to the principles laid down by OCHA, which the UK supported the development of.

[Lord Hain (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that there is a real prospect of the Ethiopian conflict getting right out of control, especially given the Horn of Africa’s strategic importance, with Gulf countries, China, the US and others jockeying for influence, or even becoming a Libyan nightmare of war crimes, war lords and ethnic cleansing? Can the Government redouble efforts to broker negotiations through the United Nations, the African Union and the EU?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first let me assure the noble Lord that I share his concern, when we see the challenges faced in neighbouring countries, about the importance of containing this and seeking a peaceful settlement. On the channels he has mentioned, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary discussed co-ordination with our EU partners on 23 November, and we are in discussions with key African partners, including Uganda, Somalia, Kenya and, importantly, South Africa. At the UN, we also participated in the Security Council debate on 24 November.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, given the risk to stability in the region, does the Minister agree with former US ambassador Carson when he said yesterday that the battle cannot be won militarily, and that it is vital that neighbours do not become embroiled through the use of their bases or airspace? Could he spell out which EU countries the United Kingdom is working with to secure these aims via the UN?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

On the noble Baroness’s two questions, I can say yes and yes. We are working specifically with the likes of Germany and France in this respect, which also have important equities in that area.

[Lord Lancaster of Kimbolton (Con)]

My Lords, all too often, women and children are the greatest victims of conflict. The UK is leading the way in the implementation of UN Resolution 1325, which recognises the importance of women’s involvement in peacekeeping. I visited and saw first-hand the UK contribution to the Peace Support Training Centre in Addis but, in light of recent events, is now the time to increase our commitment to that centre?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend speaks with some insight and, of course, great expertise. I share his view that one of the real successes has been the women, peace and security programme run by the Ministry of Defence and the FCDO. On his specific question on whether we increase capacity, obviously the situation at the moment is very fluid on the ground, but he makes a very important suggestion, which I will certainly take back and update him on accordingly.

[Baroness Cox (CB) [V]]

My Lords, what assessment have Her Majesty’s Government made of the Ethiopian premier’s assertion in Parliament on 30 November that his forces “have not killed a single civilian” during the conflict in the Tigray region? That followed a statement by the International Committee of the Red Cross on 29 November that Ayder Referral Hospital in the Tigrayan capital was “running dangerously low” on stocks and body bags due to an influx of wounded people, and that 80% of them had suffered unspecified trauma injuries. What can be done to help the supply of medical equipment much needed for that hospital?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Baroness that I have been speaking directly to UN agencies, as have other colleagues within the FCDO. I share the important point she raised right at the end of her question, and we are pressing for unfettered humanitarian access. The number of fatalities is unclear, but there is clearly also a high level of internally displaced people. I assure her that we are using all good offices and lobbying directly with the country, as my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has done, to ensure unfettered humanitarian access to the region.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

Picking up the last point the Minister mentioned, on the number of internally displaced people, has there been an assessment of how many there are? Have conversations taken place with the Governments of Sudan and Eritrea over the support that could be given to refugees at the border as well?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, the short answer is yes. We have raised it on a bilateral basis, as have international agencies. One figure I can share with him is that we now estimate that more than 45,449 people have fled Ethiopia for neighbouring Sudan—that is the latest figure I have. That is an example of the figures we have been able to make an assessment on.

[Baroness Barker (LD)]

My Lords, given that this is, in essence, a political and economic conflict, and given also that the Chinese Government are the biggest economic investor in Ethiopia, are Her Majesty’s Government working with the Chinese Government to see what influence they can bring to bear to calm matters and to bring about a potential negotiation between Ethiopia and Eritrea?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The noble Baroness makes an important point. We too are one of the leading international donors to the country, and I assure her that we are using, in particular, our discussions at the UN in pursuit of that aim.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans [V]]

Prior to the conflict, Tigray was a safe haven for Eritrean refugees afraid to return home because of fear of persecution. With Eritrea’s rumoured involvement in the conflict against the TPLF, what assessment have Her Majesty’s Government made of the validity of claims that the Eritrean military are forcing refugees into trucks and abducting them back to Eritrea?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate is right to raise those concerns. This too is part of the conversations that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has had with the Eritrean Government. They, of course, refute any such programmes or policy, but we continue to raise our concerns directly with them.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, I first visited Ethiopia with the Commons International Development Committee. We had a long meeting with Meles Zenawi, who was very impressive, and was often described as Tony Blair’s favourite African dictator. He, of course, has been gone for many years. However, when I visited last year, although there was greater prosperity there was still grinding poverty. Can my noble friend assure me that henceforth, when we pour in billions and billions of pounds in aid, as we have done in Ethiopia, for humanitarian reasons and for education and health, we will also look at what is happening to the defence budgets of such countries? I am afraid that what has been happening is fungibility. We have been giving aid for education and health—they have been spending money on arms.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend raises an important point about transparency in development spending. That is why the new structure at the FCDO will pursue that very point, ensuring that development support is intended for those who are suffering, and gets directly to them.

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth (CB) [V]]

In answer to the question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, the Minister said that the Government were in touch with France and Germany. Are the Government in touch with any power in the region itself that might be an influence for good, and what response have they had from the African Union about the role that it might play?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Let me assure the noble and right reverend Lord that yes, we are in touch with some of the countries I have already listed, such as Kenya, Uganda, Somalia and South Africa. We are dealing with those countries in the region at the most senior levels of government.

[Baroness Goudie (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, may I ask the Minister about local women being asked to be at the peace table, on both sides, from now on? It is only with local women at the peace table that we will get real peace.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I totally agree with the noble Baroness. The United Kingdom has been at the forefront of involving women peace mediators. Indeed, we have launched several initiatives, and I agree that when women are involved in bringing about peace and sustaining it, peace agreements last much longer. The evidence is there for all to see.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord Fowler)]

My Lords, all supplementary questions have been asked, and that brings Question Time to an end.