Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations 2023

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 19th July 2023 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) (No. 3) Regulations 2023.

Relevant document: 46th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee (special attention drawn to the instrument)

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, these regulations amend the Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019. This instrument was laid on 29 June 2023, under powers in the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Act 2018. The measures in this instrument entered into force on 30 June 2023.

If I may digress from my script, once again we are debating Russia and its actions. As I came into the Room, I was catching up on some of the news on the Black Sea grain initiative. Yet again, we have seen tragedy; to say it is shocking is perhaps an understatement. According to media reports, Russia has not only scuppered the Black Sea grain initiative but attacked some of the grain ports, destroying much of the grain held in those warehouses. Again, it shows the tragic nature of this illegal war and the importance of our sanctions. I say at the outset that I appreciate the work of both Front Benches opposite and the co-ordination and unity that we have displayed in moving through sanctions at such a pace.

I turn to the SI in front of us. These measures have been co-ordinated with our international partners, while refining the approach to accommodate the particular circumstances of the UK legal sector. By restricting access to additional services from the United Kingdom, they will contribute to increasing pressure on Mr Putin for waging this illegal and brutal war against Ukraine. I know that noble Lords have been focused on this issue in previous debates too. These measures place further constraints on the Russian economy, and therefore Mr Putin’s war machine. They add force to the largest, most substantial package of economic sanctions that Russia has ever faced.

The instrument delivers on the commitment made by the UK Government to ban legal advisory services on specified commercial activities. This will further hamper the ability of Russian businesses to operate internationally. This legislation will make it illegal for any person working in the UK, as well as British nationals working abroad, to advise on or facilitate certain commercial activities that would be sanctioned by the United Kingdom Government if they involved a British national or entity or were taking place in the UK. In practice, this will make it harder for Russia to benefit from the United Kingdom’s world-class legal expertise. This goes beyond prohibitions already in place that cover a range of professional services, including accountancy, architecture and management consultancy. This latest measure demonstrates our continued determination to ratchet up the pressure on Mr Putin for continuing his illegal war.

Although this legislation will close down opportunities for Mr Putin’s associates and supporters to benefit commercially from the UK’s legal expertise, it is important that we ensure that legal services can continue to be provided where they contribute to upholding the rule of law and compliance with our sanctions framework. By protecting the fundamental right to legal representation, we, frankly and directly, distinguish ourselves from Mr Putin’s oppressive regime. By ensuring that legal advice can continue to be provided for the purposes of compliance with our sanctions framework, we enhance the effectiveness of our regulations and intensify the pressure on Mr Putin.

Legal professionals are under a strict obligation to ensure that their services support their clients to be sanctions-compliant and do not stray into enabling them to circumvent restrictions. However, it has become apparent that this legislation can be interpreted as having the unintended consequence of prohibiting persons in the UK and British nationals abroad from providing legal advice to clients seeking to comply with the sanctions regimes of our international partners. Let me assure noble Lords that it is not the intent of these regulations to prohibit this type of legal service. UK lawyers should be able to support their clients to be sanctions-compliant beyond UK law as we work closely with our allies to tighten the net on Russia’s economy.

We have looked at this issue thoroughly. As an immediate response, we are working, first, across government and, importantly, across the legal profession. We have met representatives of the legal sector. My colleagues, the Lord Chancellor and the Justice Secretary, have met members directly; indeed, the Lord Chancellor met the president of the Law Society this morning. I know that this is a concern that anyone would have but I assure noble Lords that we are working closely with the legal sector in this respect to ensure that we implement a general licence that will make it clear that this type of activity can continue. We aim to have this in place in the coming days. I put on record our thanks to the legal sector for its constructive engagement on this important issue.

We have sought here to provide a direct remedy to that possible unintended consequence; the valuable support and input that we have had from the professional legal sector is very much appreciated. Once we have issued the licence, we will consider whether further amendments to the SI to address the issue are appropriate and necessary. Of course, I will update noble Lords, particularly those representing the Front Benches, on this. We will do this in conjunction with the legal sector and, if amendments are deemed necessary, we will bring them forward at the earliest opportunity.

As with our sanctions, this latest package has been developed in co-ordination with our international partners, as I said. In doing this, we will continue to work with the legal community to monitor the effects of this legislation and ensure that it achieves the desired objectives. We will also continue to co-ordinate with our international allies to identify and address any gaps or loopholes that emerge in our respective sanctions regimes.

This latest measure demonstrates our determination to target those who participate in or facilitate Mr Putin’s illegal war of choice. Through our sanctions regime, and those of our allies, Russia is being increasingly isolated, cut off from western markets, services and supply chains. Key sectors of the Russian economy have taken a significant hit and its economic outlook is bleak. The UK Government will use sanctions to intensify the military and economic pressure on Russia until Mr Putin does the right thing and ends his brutal invasion of Ukraine. We welcome the clear and continued cross-party support for this course of action. I beg to move.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for introducing these regulations in such a clear and comprehensive way. I will refer briefly to the concerns about unintended consequences in a moment but I will start by strongly agreeing with the Minister about what are likely to be the consequences of the decision on grain in the Black Sea.

Putin will again threaten the expansion to new victims of his aggression to Ukraine across those who are least able to feed and fend for themselves, especially as malnutrition and hunger ravage the Horn of Africa. Those countries that are dependent on the grain will be looking at this with doom. In a way, it is a horrific response to the leaders of countries, when they consider that they can effectively maintain the status quo ante relations with the Putin regime, to know how little he holds in his standing their people, who need this food.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, one of the issues we need to address is that Russia is highly dependent on western countries for legal expertise. As a country, we previously exported £56 million in legal services to Russian businesses every year, so it is important that we address this issue.

I also welcome the fact that we can use this debate to reiterate our cross-party support for these measures to show our unwavering commitment to and solidarity with Ukraine, its people and its sovereignty. Following last night’s Statement repeat on NATO’s Vilnius summit, I underscored the strength of feeling across our diplomatic and military alliance that we must stand with Ukraine until the war is won. It is vital that Parliament speaks with one voice.

The Opposition fully support the steps that the Government are taking to further strengthen our sanctions regime, prevent evasion and ensure that the Kremlin’s capacity to conduct this war is undermined. I stress that we recognise that this statutory instrument is common sense and prudent. It clearly should not be permissible that, more than 500 days into this conflict, it would be potentially lawful for a UK legal services provider to support commercial activities that advanced Russian interests because said activity did not have a sufficiently tangible connection to the UK, due to the territorial application of the 2019 regulations.

I hope the Minister can tell us what assessment the Government have made of how effective the 2019 regulations were and how we discovered any potential loopholes that people could get through. This leads on to my major point about this: can the Minister account for the delay in addressing these issues from the application of the regulations in 2019? If this loophole has been exploited, why has it taken us so long to address it?

I have read the Law Society’s letter and I appreciate the Minister’s response. I welcome the fact that the law officers and other departments are meeting with the Law Society but, to echo the point from the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, I am keen to support the Government in strengthening these sanctions. I do not want to see any further escape routes for people. It is important that we hear the Minister’s view on how effective these new regulations will be at imposing the sort of sanctions that we believe are necessary to limit Russia’s ability to wage war.

I know that the Minister has heard me say before that it is one thing to adopt particular regulations on sanctions, but how we resource them and how we are satisfied that they can be implemented and monitored is another. Can he tell us how the Office of Financial Sanctions Implementation is resourced? Will it be able to police these regulations? If our sanctions regime truly is a work in progress, we must be capable of reflection and improvement. If exemptions are causing more issues, we need to know about them; the assessment must be based on that.

There is one other question I will briefly raise, which is that the regulations provide exceptions when the Act relates to diplomatic missions or consular posts. Can the Minister give me a practical example of that? I am not sure I understand the purpose of it.

I have addressed the point about the Law Society. Of course, this was also raised with the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee, which expressed the view that this issue needs to be addressed. The committee was approached by an international law firm.

I conclude by saying that we once again fully support the Government’s actions. We want to see the Russian regime sanctioned. The news I have just seen on the BBC website about not only breaking the agreement but bombing the very facilities that could feed Africa is absolutely atrocious. The sooner we bring this regime to account, the better. We fully support the Government in their actions.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I put on record my thanks to the noble Lords, Lord Purvis and Lord Collins. I am sure I speak for all three of us in saying that, when we embarked on this journey of sanctions, we hoped that our debates and discussions would be limited. However, it is a real tragedy of the consequences of the war on Ukraine that we are continuing to have these debates. As I said in my opening remarks, and as was acknowledged by the noble Lords, Lord Purvis and Lord Collins, the fact that, even as we speak, there continue to be not just acts of aggression but pure violations of international law shows the nature of this war.

One point I would raise is how we amplify these points to the sorts of countries that still sometimes challenge us directly. I was delighted to see the noble Lord, Lord Wallace—I am not tempting him into the debate, but I am sure he will have a view on how we address the issue of influence directly. Quite often on the world stage and as I have travelled, it has been said to us that our sanctions are causing problems of food insecurity. Russia’s actions today demonstrate what is causing the challenges to food security. We have always worked with the UN and other key countries to ensure that the Black Sea grain initiative is kept on the front burner. It is regrettable and tragic that it was not. Further, it is tragic that we have seen the consequences culminating in this Russian aggression on the very areas that store the grain.

That said, I thank noble Lords for their specific contributions. To clarify the point made by my noble friend Lady Lawlor, whose intervention I welcome, what we are seeking to introduce—we have identified this issue—is a general licence as an immediate first step. We are working directly with the legal profession, including the Law Society, to ensure that any other unintended consequences and any other loopholes that we can address directly can also be met first hand. As I said in my opening remarks, we will seek to bring legislation forward at the earliest opportunity. It is important that we continue to do so.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised the issue of identifying, as things are, how we have been working to address particular issues and the delay. As I am sure he would acknowledge, legal services are distinct from other professional services in the constitutional role they play within our country in supporting and upholding the rule of law. Therefore, we carefully consider the implications of different policy options. This is ever evolving. In collecting an evidence base, we also work with legal services to ensure that, as far as possible, the measures we lay have the desired effect.

I am not saying that this is the last time we will have this conversation. As we are imposing these sanctions and taking further steps to restrict Russian activities, I am sure that we will identify areas, as we have on this occasion, that will further address those very issues. As a former person of the City myself, I fully understand the comprehensive scope of not just the banking services but the services industry around them. We have previously addressed consultancy and accountancy firms and today, in conjunction with legal representatives, we have worked through the implications for the legal industry.

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[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I am sorry to interrupt but regarding the exemptions, I was going to ask about the provision of professional business services, specifically related to auditing services. I cannot understand why there is an exemption for that.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

As I understand it, the auditing element of it is a professional and legal requirement, but if I can amplify that further I will of course write to the noble Lord.

The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, and my noble friend Lady Lawlor raised the issue of the general licence and its application. Under the general licence, UK persons will be able to advise on global sanctions regimes, including but not limited to the United Kingdom, USA and EU. In response to my noble friend, the same applies to the scenario she illustrated of a UK person working in the USA. However, I will take all these elements and ensure that there is a specific response because these are understandably issues of concern.

At this juncture, I also say that our rule of law and justice system allow for the provision of representation services. I am sure that the fact that I did not get a question on that means that noble Lords have acknowledged and noted that it is right that a country such as the United Kingdom continues to protect that right of legal representation. We may have our personal views on particular people who seek to take advantage of our professional services but, at the same time, every professional, including legal professionals, will now be bound by the new regulations that we are putting forward.

On the issue raised by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, specific to the Diplomatic Service, I am sure that some areas of privileges and immunities are covered in that. Again, in the interest of completeness, I will cover that in the appropriate letter.

On auditing, as I said, audits apply to the shareholders rather than the companies, in order to ensure that audits can take place where they are a statutory requirement. I have just had that confirmation from the Box—I remember some of my private sector experience quite well. It shows that when you do things off the cuff, you remember things from years past.

In all seriousness, we have sought to address some of the key areas identified as these new regulations and sanctions regimes are applied. While we have worked to ensure that Russia cannot access our legal expertise in relation to certain commercial activities, we have not hindered work that helps to provide judicial rights and access to justice.

These measures are the latest addition to our package of sanctions, which is having a damaging effect on Mr Putin’s war machine and his regime. I know that the UK Government and all Members of your Lordships’ House are united in keeping the pressure on Mr Putin until he ends this horrific and senseless war.

Finally, if, before the House rises, there are further details I can share with noble Lords on the issuance and the date of issuance of the general licences, I will do so. I will write to noble Lords on the areas that I have said I will address, particularly on diplomats. That said, I put on record my sincere thanks to all noble Lords, including my noble friend, who participated in this brief debate. Sadly, and tragically, I am sure that we will have further debates on this.

Motion agreed.

Darfur: Risk of Genocide

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 18th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

To ask His Majesty’s Government, following the discovery of mass graves and an increase in crimes targeting non-Arab ethnic groups in Darfur, what assessment they have made of the risk of genocide in that region.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the UK strongly condemns the abhorrent attacks on civilians across Sudan. Reports of atrocities, including the UN report of a mass grave in Darfur, are, of course, deeply disturbing. These atrocities need full and thorough investigation. Those responsible must be held accountable. The evidence suggests another crime against the people of Sudan. Our immediate priority is to stop the violence in Sudan, to ensure that civilians are protected, and to secure immediate safe and unfettered humanitarian access. We remain seized of the importance of investigating these attacks.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that reply. Reports of mass graves come from Geneina, a place I visited during the genocide in Darfur, when hundreds of thousands died and 2 million people were displaced, many of them fleeing to Chad. The Minister will recall the recommendations in the All-Party Group on Sudan and South Sudan’s report, which was published in April following the inquiry that I chaired, warning of the risk of a new genocide in Darfur.

How are we fulfilling our duties, in this 75th anniversary year, under the convention on the crime of genocide, which places on us and on the international community the duty to predict, prevent and punish those responsible for atrocities, targeted in this case at non-Arab ethnic groups in Darfur? How are we assisting the prosecutor of the International Criminal Court, Karim Khan KC, who told the United Nations Security Council last week that we are

“in peril of allowing history to repeat itself”?

He said that Darfur is

“not on the precipice of a human catastrophe but in the very midst of one. It is occurring”.

Are we collecting the evidence? Are we protecting those at risk? Are we stopping that catastrophe unfolding?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with Karim Khan, the ICC prosecutor. That is why we are working very closely with him. He gave that evidence last Thursday, during the UK presidency. It is also important that he recognised that the ICC has a continuing mandate during this conflict and in Darfur. As the noble Lord will know, it is directly investigating whether genocide, crimes against humanity and war crimes generally have occurred. We are very much focused on that.

On evidence collection, we have a central unit within the FCDO that allows us to collect some of the evidence remotely. There are issues of access in Darfur. I remember visiting Darfur myself, and the challenges were still immense when there was access. However, as I said, the first step must be a resolution on a cease- fire between the two warring sides to allow for a full assessment to be made.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, what Karim Khan said at the Security Council was about impunity. He gave the historical cases; court cases are still continuing. One plea he made to members of the Security Council was: what pressure would be put on the Government of Sudan to co-operate fully with the ICC? Can the Minister tell us what we are doing to put pressure on Sudan so that people cannot act with impunity in the future?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have already said, we are working very closely with the prosecutor. As the noble Lord will be aware, various avenues are being pursued in Sudan to resolve this conflict. The first thing is having a ceasefire. We are working with regional counterparts in IGAD and the African Union. We are also working as part of the quad, including with the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, the UAE and the US, and of course we have troika responsibilities historically to Sudan. All of these avenues are focused first and foremost on stopping this conflict and, secondly, as the noble Lord articulated, ensuring that these crimes are fully investigated and that there shall be no impunity for those who have committed them.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, we are all in the debt of the noble Lord, Lord Alton, for raising this matter. Is it not deeply disturbing that the Security Council, mentioned by the noble Lords, Lord Alton and Lord Collins, has two permanent members which are themselves implicated in crimes against humanity, and that it is very possible that those could be defined as genocide as well.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, importantly, since the establishment of the United Nations the UN Security Council has sought to provide a forum. It continues, notwithstanding the challenges we face from certain members, to play an important role and to provide a way to address the issues of conflicts present and to avert future conflicts. I hear what noble Lords say, and of course we pursue all issues and concerns raised by any member of the international community and any member state in a forceful manner through bilateral representations, and we address them through multilateral fora.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I declare an interest; I am actively involved in supporting dialogue with Sudanese civilians, including last week in Addis Ababa. Will the Minister agree that there is now a very real risk of ethnic and tribal conflict across the whole of Darfur? But there is a chink of light, as the civilians resisted calls by Minni Minnawi and other leaders to arm themselves. All efforts should be focused on supporting the current talks in Chad, which are multi-ethnic and could offer an opportunity for wider talks in Sudan. Some 200,000 Sudanese have fled into Chad. This is a crisis that, as the noble Lord, Lord Alton, said, we can see ahead of us, but it is one that can be prevented.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I recognise the important work that the noble Lord is doing and I very much appreciate the strong engagement we continue to have outside the Chamber. I also recognise the importance of civilian engagement at this crucial time. The noble Lord and I have discussed this matter, and we will be pursuing it to see what role the UK can play in strengthening that voice. As I said, we are engaged at all levels with all key negotiations. Ultimately, what is required is that both sides cease their current crimes. Both generals believe that their reason for being is to beat the other into non-existence, which, ultimately, means that civilians suffer. On the humanitarian crisis, it was eye-watering to see the displacement both internally and externally prior to the conflict. Tragically, this continues, running not into the hundreds or thousands but into the millions.

[Lord Curry of Kirkharle (CB)]

My Lords, as the Minister is aware, the impact Darfur has on neighbouring countries is very serious. Many people are fleeing to neighbouring countries, particularly South Sudan, where the humanitarian crisis is already a major concern. Given that many are already in famine circumstances and the UN aid programme is stretched to the limit, can the Minister explain what we are doing to assist those who fled Darfur?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

First, as the noble Lords, Lord Alton and Lord Purvis, said, those who are fleeing are often targeted, including many minorities. Early evidence from the mass grave shows that it contains 87 ethnic Masalit people. On the noble Lord’s specific question, we recognise the importance of South Sudan but the supply chain to it is through Sudan, and there have been reports of supplies being held up or seized by the warring factions. That is why we need to ensure that all the different diplomatic channels are fully explored. A key message needs to be given to both sides that they need to cease warfare now, so that humanitarian aid can reach the people of Sudan and, as the noble Lord said, the people of South Sudan as well.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend mentioned the African Union and of course we are going to need the support of the African Union consistently in addressing this horror and, indeed, similar horrors that are likely to occur in future. Is he aware that the African Union as a whole has recently applied to join the G20, arguing that Africa has no adequate voice in geopolitical affairs or in gaining the support of the wider world with the problems we are discussing now? Is that something that he and the Government would look on favourably? Is there a way forward in which we can work more closely with the African Union anyway, 21 members of which happen to be members of the Commonwealth?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I have noted this very carefully. During the Indian G20 presidency, this was pursued by India in both the invitations extended and the role of the African Union. I think there is a case to be made, as we see the different movements of power and power centres, that it is not just the European Union or western blocs: the African Union is equally important in what it presents, in terms of both conflict resolution and the empowerment of communities across the continent.

[Baroness Uddin (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, what is happening in Sudan saddens me greatly, like other noble Lords in the House. I have had the privilege of working with women parliamentarians and civil society in Sudan: it is a country of great potential. Can the Minister assure us that he is also taking on board what is happening to the women of Sudan? In particular, how are we making sure that in this conflict, the rape and pillage of women and families is not being used as a weapon of war, given the worsening situation?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Baroness that we continue to focus on the terrible tragedy that is unfolding in Sudan, with a particular focus on the plight of women and girls, as she points out. It is not just in Sudan; it is a tragic fact that wherever conflicts occur, the most vulnerable are attacked, and that includes women and girls. That is why only on Friday I chaired a session of the UN Security Council focused on preventing sexual violence in conflict, where we introduced a new guidebook, working with the Dr Denis Mukwege Foundation, on what action states can take in terms of prevention, not just in addressing live conflict. I agree with the noble Baroness and I assure her that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, the Development Minister and I, as the multilateral Minister, are focused on delivering those exact messages.

This is a simple case of human values. The kinds of abhorrent crimes we see against women and young girls are shocking, to say the least. When we see victims as young as four, five or six, if not younger, being attacked, raped and pillaged in conflict, including in the conflict in Sudan and elsewhere in Africa—for example, in the DRC—we must act. We will continue to work collectively to ensure that we can put these abhorrent practices into the history books.

[The Lord Bishop of Bristol]

My Lords, as we have already heard from the noble Lord, Lord Alton, the situation in Darfur is dire, and I am grateful for this opportunity to be reminded of that. At least six towns and villages have been burned to the ground, alongside numerous cultural sites. We have heard a little about the effect on girls and women, and boys over fighting age are being shot. Understandably, many of the targeted Masalit ethnic group are fleeing to surrounding countries. We have heard about those going to South Sudan, but the vast majority are going to Chad. What steps will the Government take to provide Chad with support for the refugee crisis as a result?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate raises the important issue of the displacement of refugees. We have already made a series of announcements of support for the stability of Sudan and its near neighbours. At the moment, alongside our £5 million commitment to help the urgent needs of refugees and returnees in South Sudan and Chad, we have, through the Development Minister, made a further commitment of £21.7 million, which we announced specifically for humanitarian aid for Sudan as part of our contribution at the UN Horn of Africa conference. We will continue to assess the key issue but, going back to other questions, the challenge is not just about providing money and support, it is about ensuring that humanitarian aid reaches those most in need.

[Baroness Helic (Con)]

My Lords, two decades ago in Darfur, systematic rape was used as a weapon of war as part of ethnic cleansing and genocide. No one has been held accountable and those same crimes are being repeated today. Can my noble friend tell the House what concrete steps we are taking so that this time around documentation is sufficient so that we reach accountability, not as an aspiration but as a reality?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend. I am sure she will acknowledge the steps that we have taken to ensure that the testimonies of those who have survived sexual violence in particular, but other crimes too, are fully documented. Often there are representatives of well-intentioned INGOs in the field, but their collection of evidence can sometimes negate the impact of allowing a successful prosecution.

The concrete steps that we have taken include, as my noble friend knows, the Murad code, which allows not for a time-limited period but ensures that evidence can be collected and sustained, to allow for successful prosecutions. Indeed, that is why we are working closely with international courts such as the ICC, and the prosecutors specifically, to ensure that the connection between testimony collection and prosecution is very live.

[Lord Stirrup (CB)]

My Lords, we are aware of the extensive involvement of the Wagner Group in this conflict and its associated criminal activities but, if one is to believe the messages coming from Moscow— I admit that is a bit of a stretch—the Russian Government are taking direct control of the Wagner Group and its activities. What assessment have His Majesty’s Government made of the direct involvement of the Russian Government in the conflict in Sudan, which of course is hardly likely to simplify the challenge of achieving a lasting peace?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The noble and gallant Lord raises a key point. Of course, we are fully aware of the growing influence of the Wagner Group in many conflicts across Africa. On the question of Russian state and non-state activities in Sudan, we are making repeated representations to and raising our concerns with others, both near neighbours and other countries that have influence. We are particularly focused on Russian activities in Africa, which include reports of Wagner Group involvement in gold mining specifically and in disinformation campaigns in Sudan. The noble and gallant Lord is right: it is a key concern at the moment, with the growing influence of, and instability caused by, the Wagner Group. As we have seen, it is not a reliable partner, and even the Russians are learning that lesson.

Hong Kong

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 13th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat a Statement made by my right honourable friend the Minister for Indo-Pacific in the other place on the situation on Hong Kong. The Statement is as follows:

“Last week, I came to this House to speak on the egregious arrest warrants and bounties issued by the Hong Kong police against eight individuals for exercising their right to freedom of expression. Some of these individuals reside in the UK. As I said at the time, this is completely unacceptable.

Since then, the authorities in Hong Kong have taken further steps to silence and intimidate these individuals by targeting their families and alleged associates who remain in Hong Kong. Last week, we saw five individuals arrested by the Hong Kong police. On Monday, family members of one of the named individuals, Nathan Law, were detained for questioning by Hong Kong police and have since been released. This is a worrying development. This is a campaign of fear intended to intimidate and silence those who seek to speak out peacefully against oppression and the erosion of rights and freedoms.

This is a choice the Hong Kong authorities have taken, no doubt emboldened by the Chinese Government’s imposition of the national security law. It will only further damage Hong Kong’s international reputation and standing. The United Kingdom declared the national security law a breach of the Sino-British joint declaration and brought together the international community to condemn the imposition.

In response, we introduced the bespoke visa route for British overseas nationals. Hong Kongers have since made the United Kingdom their home and are making a valuable contribution to our communities. We suspended the UK-Hong Kong extradition treaty immediately and indefinitely. We also announced the extension to Hong Kong of the arms embargo applied to mainland China since 1989, as updated in 1998.

I would like to make it exceptionally clear that we will not tolerate attempts by either the Chinese or the Hong Kong authorities to intimidate and silence any individuals in the United Kingdom. Any attempt by any foreign power to intimidate, harass or harm individuals or communities in the United Kingdom will not be tolerated. This is an insidious threat to our democracy and fundamental human rights.

On 3 July, the Foreign Secretary called on the Hong Kong authorities to end their targeting of those who stand up for freedom and democracy. They have not heeded this call. At the instruction of the Foreign Secretary, a senior official will be formally protesting recent actions by the Hong Kong authorities with the Chinese ambassador.

We will make and have consistently made clear our objections to the Beijing-imposed national security law to Chinese Government and will continue to do so. It has stifled opposition and criminalised dissent. The authorities claim that this has brought stability to Hong Kong, but what it has really done is stifle the unique character of the city and diminish its pluralism and vibrancy. If this course of action continues, it will alienate business and the city’s international financial status will be at risk.

The Hong Kong and Chinese authorities repeatedly condemn comments in this House and by the Government as interfering in their internal affairs. As a co-signatory to the joint declaration, we have the right to make clear our position, and we will not be deterred from doing so.

The national security law should never have been imposed in 2020 and should be removed. The independent UN Human Rights Council concurred with this in its report on Hong Kong last year, as have many of our partners in the international community. No one living in the United Kingdom should feel inhibited by that law in any way. We will always stand up for the right of freedom of expression.

This is not what the United Kingdom wants for Hong Kong’s future. Hong Kong’s way of life, prosperity and stability rely on respect for fundamental freedoms, an independent judiciary and the rule of law. We will continue to stand up for the people of Hong Kong, to call out violations of their rights and freedoms, and to hold China to its international obligations. I commend this Statement to the House.”

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the Government will find no disagreement at all with the Statement from these Benches. We also support the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Collins.

It is clearly unacceptable that the United Kingdom and its politicians should, in effect, be threatened by another country’s embassy over hosting individuals who will now, as John Lee indicated, be fearful for the remainder of their lives unless they return to Hong Kong. There is reportedly a £101,000 bounty on them. This is clearly unacceptable behaviour. What advice are the Government providing to individuals being threatened in such a way on accessing information and support from British police? We must be prepared for Chinese authorities to go beyond pure threats as, regrettably, we have seen physical action in this country, which is equally unacceptable.

I have three questions for the Minister. The first relates to our economic relationship with China. Clearly, our diplomatic relations are in a complex and sensitive state, but there seems to be very little action from the Government to see those concerns reflected in our trading and investment relationship via Hong Kong. Eight years ago, Prime Minister David Cameron indicated that he wanted Britain to be the preferred partner of China in the West and signed a number of preferential market access agreements with China. I have asked repeatedly which of those agreements we have alerted the Chinese authorities that we will pause on the basis of human rights concerns. The Government have indicated that none will be.

This is compounded by the Trade Minister from this House, the noble Lord, Lord Johnson, actively engaging with the Hong Kong authorities at the same time as they are announcing bounties on people in this country. My second question to the Minister is this: which Minister authorises Trade Ministers to visit Hong Kong? Is it the Prime Minister personally or the Secretary of State for the Department for Business and Trade? I do not know whether that department or the FCDO is in charge of our relations with China.

Thirdly, the Independent Commission for Aid Impact recently updated its review on UK aid to China. Many people will be alarmed to hear that, under the latest set of figures, it found that the United Kingdom has given £48 million in overseas development assistance to China—a country on whose goods we are dependent by a trade deficit of more than £40 billion. The commission found a concerning lack of transparency on a government strategy to reduce development assistance to China. I hope that the Minister can respond positively to the ICAI report and indicate when that figure will reduce to zero. I think that British taxpayers will be concerned when aid is being cut to those starving in the Horn of Africa but we are providing nearly £50 million to China.

My final point relates to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, with which I agree, on the need for a longer-term strategy. The Minister is well aware that a report of the International Relations and Defence Select Committee of this House found a “strategic void” from this Government on our relations with China. It said:

“There is no clear sense of what the current Government’s strategy towards China is, or what values and interests it is trying to uphold in the UK-China relationship”.


It is now absolutely necessary for us to have a clear long-term strategy on our relations with China—diplomatic, economic and cultural. I hope that the Minister will respond positively and say that this will now be the Government’s approach.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I thank both noble Lords for their support for the Statement. I accept that there are questions about our future relationship with China that we will continue to ask but, equally, I thank noble Lords and their respective parties for their support for the actions we are taking. It is right not just that we are concerned for the BNOs who have arrived to make their homes here in the United Kingdom and who are contributing so much but that we recognise that there remains a responsibility to every Hong Konger under an agreement signed by both China and the United Kingdom. In that respect, we remain focused and vigilant to ensure that those issues continue to be raised directly with China.

I will go through some of the specific questions, first on strategy and the way forward. The noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Purvis, both raised this in their own ways; the noble Lord, Lord Collins, repeated something that he asked me last week and the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, asked specifically about our future role.

First, I saw a summary of the Intelligence and Security Committee report on China earlier today. As noble Lords are aware, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister issued a Written Statement on this report, which I quote:

“The Integrated Review 2021 articulated the United Kingdom’s robust stance towards China. It highlighted China’s increasing international assertiveness and identified it as the biggest state-based comprehensive threat to the United Kingdom’s economic security. It placed greater emphasis on defending our interests and values while preserving the potential for cooperation on shared interests. The Integrated Review Refresh 2023 went further still, responding to subsequent changes in the strategic environment. In the IRR, the government recognised China as a systemic challenge with implications for almost every area of government policy”.


In the interests of time, I refer noble Lords to the Written Statement from my right honourable friend the Prime Minister, which clearly highlights the challenges posed and, importantly, the steps that we have taken in response to those challenges.

Noble Lords will recognise that much of the information for that report was received before 2021. A number of the issues and recommendations that it raises are addressed by some of the actions that we have taken, for example passing the National Security Act in 2023 and the foreign interference offence created by that Act. Through the Home Office, we have also set up the Defending Democracy Taskforce, overseen by the Security Minister. I refer noble Lords to that Statement; I am sure that further questions will arise on that issue.

The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, asked about visits and trade. I am sure all noble Lords recognise that China is a country that has a role to play on the world stage. I will shortly be going to the UN Security Council, and we have worked with China on a number of key priorities, including the issues and challenges of climate change, the security situation on various conflicts and, importantly, the issues of resolutions around the world. We recognise the role of China as a P5 UN Security Council member. We saw also that, on various health challenges that have been faced over time, China has played a role in assisting the global community.

However, that should not allow us to—and we do not—shy away from calling out China for its egregious abuse of human rights. I am sure noble Lords recognise the work of this Government on this important issue, and the leadership we have shown on the Human Rights Council, particularly on the issue of Uighur Muslims in Xinjiang.

The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, referred to my noble friend Lord Johnson’s visit to Hong Kong to discuss business ties that link the UK and Hong Kong. It is right that we continue to strengthen Hong Kong, not just because of our historic ties but because the whole basis of the agreement we signed was to ensure the continuing prosperity of Hong Kongers. I fully accept that it must be tied to ensuring that the rights of Hong Kongers are also protected. He spoke up quite directly against the erosion of rights and freedoms in Hong Kong and, I assure noble Lords, also raised key concerns that are affecting communities, such as pension access, in meetings with government officials.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked about a UN debate specifically. I am sure that this will be something which I will reflect on, but I can certainly say at this time that there are no current plans to raise a particular UN Security Council debate. As the noble Lord, Lord Collins, may know, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has made a statement on human rights in Hong Kong at the UN Human Rights Council. I will keep the noble Lord updated.

The noble Lord also asked about UK judges. The Government supported the decision of sitting UK judges to resign in March 2022. I am sure that both noble Lords recognise the independence of the judiciary as a key component of any democracy. The UK judges who remain as non-permanent members of the Court of Final Appeal are retired from judicial service in the UK. Lawyers who are practising in Hong Kong do so as private citizens. I am sure they are watching the situation very carefully but, from our perspective, ultimately it is for them to make their own personal decisions. It is important to respect that decision and I am sure they are reflecting on the latest pronouncements and announcements we have seen out of Hong Kong.

The noble Lord also raised issues of security measures in place for individuals in the UK. I am sure that both noble Lords will respect the fact that I will not go into specific details on individuals; as a matter of long-standing policy, we do not comment specifically on operational matters. However, I assure noble Lords that, where we do identify individuals at heightened risk, we are front-footed in providing them with protective security guidance, and indeed any other measures they may require in this respect.

The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, also raised the issue of overseas development assistance and China. We stopped direct Government-to-Government aid to China in 2011. Total ODA to China in 2021 included spend as outlined by the noble Lord. In a Written Ministerial Statement in April 2021, the FCDO committed to cut ODA-funded programmes in China by 95%. In addition, a lot of these programmes cover some of the educational elements. Chevening scholarships, ODA-eligible operational costs for UK diplomatic missions in China and ODA-eligible British Council activities are contained within this. I assure the noble Lord that no funding goes to Chinese authorities in this respect.

On the progress of this, BEIS, for example, announced in a WMS in May 2022 that its ODA-funded activity with China would also finish by the end of the financial year 2022-23. The FCDO is fully aware that China will eventually reach an income threshold to graduate, because of its sheer population size. But I hope I have reassured the noble Lord that, where those programmes are run, they are run within an educational sphere and support the vital work of organisations such as the British Council.

Both noble Lords raised concerns, which I share, that no citizen in the United Kingdom should be subject to any threat; we take this very seriously. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised the issue of transnational threats and our agreements and arrangements with other countries. I assure noble Lords that we work directly with all our key partners, including the United States and the European Union. Although the UK has indefinitely suspended its extradition treaty with Hong Kong, we recognise that there should be no place where others may seek to leverage transnational partnerships and abuse the use of Interpol. We are vigilant on such threats. Of course, if there are further updates to provide to noble Lords, I will do so.

I reassure noble Lords that we work in a transnational way to show that people from Hong Kong, or British nationals overseas who now reside in the United Kingdom, are protected and secure not just in the UK but wherever they may be in the world.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure that we are all grateful to my noble friend for bringing his customary thoroughness to the answers he has just given. I declare an interest in that I led the last CPA delegation to Hong Kong before the handover, and two of my grandchildren were born in Hong Kong—my son was serving there.

I am deeply troubled by one thing in particular: the position of the judges. I completely accept what my noble friend said about the independence of the judiciary, and I make no criticism whatever of those eminent judges who still function, to a degree, in Hong Kong. But will my noble friend perhaps think of convening a meeting with them? The fact is that they are lending a veneer of respectability to a dire situation. All our hopes were high at the handover in 1997, and they remained so for many years after. But there is now a sinister repression in Hong Kong that completely abrogates the treaty that China and we agreed to. The time has now come when either China has to accept that treaty again or those who are inadvertently giving a veneer of respectability to it cease to do so.

I make one final point. My noble friend said that there were no plans to raise this issue at the Security Council during our chairmanship. I would ask that he talks to the Foreign Secretary and rethinks that. This is of enormous importance; we are dealing with the second most important power in the world, after the United States, and we must do everything we can to see that the international rule of law is observed by China, not flagrantly abused, as it is currently.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I will start with the final point that my noble friend raised, about the UN Security Council. As my noble friend knows, there are various institutions of the United Nations, and I have become reasonably familiar with them over the last six years as the United Nations Minister, among other things, at the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office. That is why we chose the vehicle of the Human Rights Council, which was set up specifically for this matter. It was right that the issue and the statement were raised directly by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary. The mandate of the UN Security Council is important, covering security and conflict issues across the piece. Of course, any agenda item on China’s role on the UN Security Council will also be determined, in part, by its effectiveness within that particular structure. However, we are raising these issues quite directly with China on a bilateral basis, with the Hong Kong authorities directly and, as I illustrated, at the United Nations.

On the issue of judges, there is nothing further I can really add. Like anyone, I am sure that the judges who continue to serve—and I add again that they are retired judges—will rightly make decisions that are reflective of their own key principles. I am sure that they are looking at these things very carefully. It is essential that the Hong Kong judiciary and Hong Kong’s legal institutions can operate independently and free from political interference.

[Lord Leong (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for the Statement. He will recall from a debate last week the serious concerns around the alarming authoritarian actions that the CCP is taking against those who speak out so bravely against the regime. I have three questions for the Minister. First, can he assure us that our security forces are ensuring the freedoms and safety of the three individuals currently in the United Kingdom who have enormous bounties placed on their heads? Are they safe from any clandestine activities, whether by criminal or foreign government actors?

Secondly, can the Minister clarify whether any of these eight individuals will now be flagged by Interpol if they travel through international passport controls? Finally, can he give us any further information about attempts by an alleged Chinese spy to infiltrate a meeting in this very building in which two of the three targeted individuals were speaking? That the Chinese security forces are attempting to operate at the heart of our democracy is shocking. It cannot and must not be tolerated.

All parliamentarians must continue to speak up, unintimidated, for those who fight for freedoms in Hong Kong, most especially on our Parliamentary Estate. The Intelligence and Security Committee report released today, as my noble friend Lord Collins mentioned earlier, is critical of the Government with regard to China, especially in their apparent willingness to trade off economic interests and security concerns. These concerns now have a very human face.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, there is little that I can disagree with in what the noble Lord has said. I put on record again that I think he adds a real insight and value to our discussions and debates, as he has illustrated in his observations and the questions that he has raised today, and I look forward to working with him on this important agenda. I assure him, as I have already said, that with regard to those nationals who are present in the United Kingdom—and this applies to every British citizen—it is the first duty of any responsible Government to look after the security of their citizens. We do not take that responsibility lightly in any shape or form. Previous Governments have also made this a priority, and I know that future Governments will as well. We will not tolerate any attempts to intimidate people simply for speaking out. We will always defend the universal right of freedom of expression and stand up for those who are targeted.

I recognise the challenge and the important issues that the noble Lord has posed on issues of security. He raised issues and concerns about the Parliamentary Estate. I praise the parliamentary authorities, which remain very vigilant and on the front foot—I have personal experience of such things. Indeed, if any threat is perceived to the estate or to a given individual, particularly a parliamentarian, they are very much on the front foot when it comes to ensuring the safety and security of the estate and the individual parliamentarians. I have no doubt that it is very much at the forefront of their minds.

On the issue of any heightened risk, we of course keep every assessment and monitor this closely. We are very much aware of the challenges posed by the Chinese Government and state, and indeed other actors—and also of the way in which the threat may emanate. We live in a very different world of the digital age, and we are very much seized of the challenges that we confront there. I assure the noble Lord that, in all these respects but particularly with regard to security—he mentioned the use of Interpol, which I have already talked to—these institutions are set up to protect, not to intimidate.

Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) (No. 2) Regulations 2023

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 10th July 2023 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That the Regulations laid before the House on 19 June be approved.

Relevant document: 45th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee. Considered in Grand Committee on 5 July.

Motion agreed.

China

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 6th July 2023 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, first, I thank all noble Lords who have participated in this short but very important and—as has been said—timely debate. I put on record my thanks to the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, for securing and introducing the debate. Many of the issues and concerns that she raised resonate strongly with me and His Majesty’s Government, although I say from the outset that the word “flip-flop” has been used twice, and I must admit that it is not a reflection of what I have seen of the UK’s position. I will elaborate on some of those points. The noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Collins, articulated the approach that would be taken if the party of His Majesty’s Opposition were in Government, and that very much reflects the key principles being pursued by His Majesty’s Government today.

I will try to cover as many of the points raised as possible in the few minutes that I have. Where more details are required, I will of course write to noble Lords in the customary way and lay a copy of that letter in the Library.

As we reflect on the Tiananmen Square massacre, we are all moved by those who lost their lives. We all remember it in our own way. The noble Lord, Lord Leong—I really respect his valuable insights—put it very poignantly. The image we saw of that individual standing in front of a tank defined what we saw happening in China and shaped much of our thinking.

We often take the fundamental principles of human rights and the right to protest as a matter of course in the United Kingdom. Every time I cross to the Foreign Office, there is always a protest of some nature taking place—it varies. I think it is a real strength of democracy. Visiting Foreign Ministers often ask me: “Tariq, are you not worried and concerned?” I am not, because it shows the strength of our democracy. Right outside the mother of Parliaments—as the noble Lord, Lord Leong, referred to it—we have the right to protest peacefully, in accordance with the law but forcefully and seeking to change the mind of the Government of the day on a particular policy or to influence Parliament. Long may that be protected. That was the very right which was protected within Hong Kong, which has been the subject of many of the contributions today.

I agree with the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Wallace, that we are very clear-eyed in our relationship with China. I will turn to the issue of human rights, but I agree with both of them that we need to co-operate with China. It cannot be ignored. It is the second-biggest economy in the world. There are not just intrinsic issues in supply chains and dependency for the UK and European economies but, as I said earlier in the Chamber, a reliance of many countries around the world, particularly developing states, on China’s economic power. If we are to be serious, we need to ensure that there are alternatives they can rely on.

China is, I accept, becoming more authoritarian at home and more assertive overseas. On the integrated review and a China strategy, I accept that there is no stand-alone China strategy but we have been very clear in the refresh and the original integrated view about our view on China. I will come to that in a moment. China is exerting more influence over people’s lives globally. How we handle that in terms of military, diplomatic and economic activity presents us with a generational, epoch-defining challenge. That challenge includes China using its economic power to coerce countries. We have seen this recently here in Europe in its disagreements with Lithuania, for example. We will work closely with others to push back against attempts by the Chinese Communist Party to coerce or threaten other nations.

The point about universities was made by the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, and the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett. Of course, it is important to ensure students can work and express freely. On the specifics of extended university support, I will write to the noble Lord about what is currently there. If particular issues are identified in any institution, it is important that that is fed back to government so appropriate action can be taken and that the appropriate colleges, universities or educational institutions can equally be informed of these issues.

However, we must continue to engage directly with China towards open, constructive and stable relations. The Foreign Secretary has been delivering this in a number of discussions he has had on foreign and security policy with Director Wang Yi, Foreign Minister Qin Gang and Vice-President Han Zheng on a number of occasions recently. I assure noble Lords that our approach is rooted in our national interest and co-ordinated with like-minded partners, including our European partners and the US. It reflects China’s importance in world affairs as a permanent member of the UN Security Council. We have seen this, and I have directly experienced it in some of the work we are doing on important issues, such as Russia’s illegal war on Ukraine.

I turn to UK interests. We understand the issues and concerns which have been raised by all noble Lords. I take on board the comments of the noble Lord, Lord Alton, and say directly to him that I respect him greatly but understand the direct challenges he has faced through the sanctions that have been imposed. I said earlier today that the Government and my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary will engage with those under sanctions to address specific concerns as they arise.

On the issue of transiting through countries, it is important that we invest in those countries. We do not recognise the national security law or any extradition treaty. We have suspended that. That was direct and it was the right action to take. Equally, we have to be vigilant and ensure that that message is received loud and clear by other countries as well.

Our own national security is also critical. We have included new powers to protect our critical industries under the National Security and Investment Act; bolstered the security of our 5G network through the Telecommunications Act; and trained—importantly; it was a point made by the noble Lord, Lord Wallace—170 civil servants in Mandarin.

The Integrated Review Refresh takes this even further. We will double funding for Chinese expertise and capability in government, so that we have more Mandarin speakers and China experts. This will boost skills and knowledge for government staff in relation to China, including on economic, military and diplomatic policy, as well as Mandarin language skills, which are important.

Today has been the first time I have heard the noble Lord, Lord Leong, speak in extensive debate—and here is to many more—and share his background and insights, some of which I can relate to. Too often, challenges are posed to those who have made the United Kingdom their home. It is right that we celebrate the rich diversity of the United Kingdom, which we should recognise as a strength and not a weakness of our great nation.

The noble Lord’s Written Question earlier this month on Sino-British relations following the anniversary was an opportunity for us to highlight how appalled we were by the recent suppression of peaceful demonstrations in Hong Kong. It is right that we take a moment to reflect on the situation in Hong Kong and the pace of change in recent years. Tragically, it has been a regressive path.

China’s imposition of the National Security Law has seen opposition stifled. Three years on, we have seen how this opaque and sweeping law has undermined rights and freedoms enshrined in the joint declaration and indeed Hong Kong’s own Basic Law. Alternative voices across Hong Kong’s society have been all but extinguished, and changes to electoral rules have further eroded the ability of Hong Kongers to be legitimately represented at all levels of government. Governance, rights and social systems are now closer to the mainland norms of China, a point made extensively and poignantly by the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy.

Monday saw attempts to reaffirm the purported extraterritorial reach of the National Security Law, as the Hong Kong police announced bounties—how appalling. We think of bounties as the bastion of films of the past, with bounties put on people’s heads. This is not how you do international relations. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary was right to make a very clear statement on this. On the bounties on British citizens, including the three who are here in the UK, let me be absolutely clear: we will never tolerate attempts by Chinese authorities to intimidate or silence individuals in the UK and overseas, and we will make that point forcefully.

In response to the introduction of the National Security Law in 2020, to which I have already alluded, we acted quickly and decisively to introduce a bespoke immigration route for BNOs. I am proud of the role that many played; I was also involved in that. Some 150,000 BNO visas have now been granted and about 146,000 have arrived. We welcome—because, again, it enriches our country—the valuable contributions made.

The Foreign Secretary made plain our views on Hong Kong to the Chinese Vice-President on 5 May and at the UN Human Rights Council on 27 February. We stand for the rights and freedoms of the people of Hong Kong, as we agreed in the Sino-British agreement.

I am conscious of the time, so I want to mention Jimmy Lai, whose case was raised. He is one of Hong Kong’s most successful businessmen and former publisher of the Apple Daily. I am sure that the noble Lord, Lord Leong, with his own publishing career, relates quite directly to that. Mr Lai has been prosecuted on multiple fronts. He is an inspiration for what he is doing. Let me make it clear: he is a British passport holder. As was mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, many countries do not recognise that status, but we are making very clear his rights to consular access and representation as well as rights under detention in accordance with principles and the Geneva conventions, which China should also recognise as forming the base of the international order. The Foreign Secretary has repeatedly made these issues clear in his direct interactions with senior members of the Chinese Government, and our diplomats in Hong Kong have attended Mr Lai’s court proceedings since his arrest in 2020 and will continue to do so.

Briefly on sanctions and asset seizures, and as a final point, I cannot give any more detail, but, of course, we look at all these elements. As we look at the security of individuals both at home and abroad, we keep these matters under very careful review. I cannot speculate on what happens in the future, but we exercised sanctions when it came to the issues relating to Xinjiang. On Xinjiang and human rights more generally, we have been at the forefront. I know that, because I led the first ever statement on the Human Rights Council, and we have sought to broaden our support.

Much more needs to be done, but I assure noble Lords and the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, in particular that we are very clear-eyed in our policy when it comes to China. China is an important partner on climate change; it is an important partner when we talk of the economic interdependency of the world today. Equally, where there are violations of human rights, be they in Tibet and Xinjiang, or against our own citizens, I assure the noble Baroness that we will stand by those people and always call out such violations.

Committee adjourned at 5 pm.

International Anti-corruption Court

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 6th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Hain]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of proposals for an International Anti-Corruption Court.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, this Government are fully committed to ensuring that those responsible for the most egregious acts of corruption are held to account. We have considered the idea of an international anti-corruption court, including with 40 international partners in November last year. Together with them, we concluded that now is not the time to endorse a new, bespoke institution of this nature. However, the Government will set out their plans for combating transnational grand corruption in the second UK anti-corruption strategy later this year.

[Lord Hain (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply, but it is very disappointing. Money laundering represents over 5% of global GDP, or $2 trillion each year, yet there is no effective mechanism to prosecute kleptocrats, corrupt businesspeople, oligarchs or their professional enablers. Canada, the Netherlands, Ecuador, Moldova, Nigeria and the European Parliament have recently called for the establishment of an international anti-corruption court, as have over 300 leaders from over 80 countries, over 45 former Presidents and Prime Ministers and 30 Nobel laureates. A group of leading international jurists and other experts is now drafting a model treaty. Will the Government join with them now to tackle this terrible international scourge?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, while I appreciate the long-standing commitment and work of the noble Lord, where I disagree with him is that I believe that much has been achieved and is being done. As I said, we have consulted on this issue extensively; we continue to engage with the countries the noble Lord listed that are involved in the development of this concept. At the same time, as he and other noble Lords may be aware, the UK’s international corruption unit is a world-leading capability; it was set up in 2017 alongside the Five Eyes plus others. Much has been achieved: since 2017, the unit has received 247 referrals of grand corruption from over 40 countries and, as a result, has disseminated 146 intelligence reports, identified £1.4 billion-worth assets, and supported the freezing of £623 million-worth of assets and the forfeit and confiscation of £74 million. As I have said, our work continues. In 2022 alone, intelligence collated across these jurisdictions supported the identification of a further £380 million in stolen assets. We are working, and we are working in co-ordination. I appreciate the strong work the noble Lord has done in this area, but, as I have said, an international institution can be set up, as he will know from his own ministerial experience, only with the support of a broad range of partners. The Five Eyes partners are crucial, and we are working very closely with them.

[Lord Oates (LD)]

My Lords, in his speech at Chatham House earlier this year, the Development Minister, Andrew Mitchell, pledged that the Government would

“bear down on … the flows of dirty money which … represent money stolen particularly from Africa and African people”.

Can the Minister tell the House what steps the Government are taking to achieve that objective? Would not the establishment of an IACC play a key role in such efforts? The Minister said that world opinion is not in the right place, so could he tell us what he and the Government are doing to lead on this issue to ensure that we get to a point where world opinion is in the right place?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, this is an ever-evolving challenge, and I fully accept the principle that more needs to be done; we continue to work on that. The noble Lord raised issues about Africa, so I will give examples of the international corruption unit’s success. In March 2021, the first £4.2 million of assets stolen by James Ibori, the former governor of Delta state, were returned to Nigeria. In Malawi, the dual UK-Malawian national Zuneth Sattar is alleged to have defrauded the Malawian Government of billions of kwacha. The ICU has seized 19 properties in the UK, as well as cars, including a Lamborghini and a Bentley, owned by Mr Sattar. Those are two examples; in Angola and Nigeria, the Government and this unit have seen other successes. I assure all noble Lords that we continue to be very seized of these and are working very closely with our key partners. We have seen results since the establishment of the unit in 2017.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My Lords, given that the Government are not in favour of the proposal outlined by the noble Lord, Lord Hain, could the Minister say whether the Government are working via any of the international or intergovernmental organisations to tackle this issue of corruption and money laundering? Does he see that as a useful alternative to a new body such as a new court?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure my noble friend that we are. For example, there is a UN instrument of which we have been very supportive; it needs to be further strengthened, and we are working with key partners in the UN context to ensure that. I know of my noble friend’s interest in the Commonwealth; we are also looking at aiding and funding support structures in the Commonwealth. Going back to the previous question, a particular focus on Africa is a key part of our work in this respect.

[Baroness Whitaker (Lab)]

My Lords, I declare an interest as a former member of Transparency International UK’s council, and that my daughter works in this field. I put it to the Minister that a recent survey showed that 70% of those recently polled across the G7 and BRICS countries—whose populations account for the majority of the world—support the establishment of an international anti-corruption court to deal with cases that national Governments and their tribunals either will not or cannot handle. Could not the Minister, whose approach to this is welcome, use this fact to persuade his own officials that this is really worth backing?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, if I may be clear, the noble Baroness talks of the majority of the world’s population, but obviously the G7 does not include countries such as India. We remain focused on ensuring that we work with Governments to tackle issues of corruption. On the particular point that the noble Baroness raises, I too know of the vital work that institutions such as Transparency International, and the FCDO works very closely with them. Such bodies do inform our decisions but, as I said, we have considered this with other partners, including 40 other countries, and setting up a new international structure at this time is not something that has been supported. It needs that level of broad support. It does not mean it is totally off the table; it means that we continue to work in a co-ordinated fashion on some of the instruments that I have already highlighted. As I am sure the noble Baroness will accept, we are seeing real delivery and real results in terms of the seizure of assets and penalties imposed on those who commit these crimes.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I will pick up the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Kamall, on how we change world opinion on this subject. The president of ECOSOC recently said this accounts for 5% of global GDP—as my noble friend said—and that has a huge impact on sustainable development goals. We will not be achieving them because of this level of corruption. What assessment have the Government made of working within the UN to raise the profile of this issue? In particular, have they considered steps to promote a UN Convention against Corruption as a means of tackling this issue, so that we win world opinion?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I said in response to my noble friend, the UNCAC is one such instrument. In terms of its effectiveness, that is something that needs to be bolstered further; it needs to be adapted and reflective of some of the challenges that we are all aware of—the use of technology, for example, that feeds some of these crimes. I assure the noble Lord that we are working through all the existing structures. He is right: we need to ensure that those that have a transnational approach, particularly the UN structures, are further bolstered. There are, I think, further meetings planned for later this year. As the Minister responsible for this area in the FCDO, I am working not just with key partners within the Five Eyes, as I have illustrated, but also further afield, including in areas such as the Gulf.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, in proceedings on the economic crime Bill, the Minister’s noble friend Lord Sharpe of Epsom kindly agreed to the principle of the all-party amendment to that Bill on what to do about sanctioned assets—a point the noble Lord, Lord Hain, was raising. The noble Lord, Lord Sharpe, agreed to bring forward secondary legislation before the end of this calendar year. Given what the Minister has said about the importance of departments working with one another, can he give us an assurance that the FCDO will be co-operating regularly with the Home Office to bring forward that secondary legislation? Will he look again at the parliamentary oversight of things such as the Magnitsky sanctions, so we can understand the rather opaque way in which some of those are decided?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point about Magnitsky sanctions, I am very proud of the fact that we have strengthened our work in that respect. Later today, we will also be discussing, through a Statement, some of the additional steps we have taken using those very levers. The important thing about the sanctions that the United Kingdom deploys is that there is legal oversight. There is a real robustness for those institutions, organisations and individuals that may feel that they have been unjustifiably sanctioned, and that is a strength of the UK law. On the noble Lord’s earlier point, the noble Lord to whom he referred is not only a noble friend but also a dear friend, and I assure the noble Lord that there is full co-operation across all government departments.

Zimbabwe

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 6th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Oates]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to the government of Zimbabwe regarding the detention of opposition Deputy Chairperson and Member of Parliament Job Sikhala, who has been incarcerated for over a year in Chikurubi Maximum Security Prison and denied bail on 15 occasions.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom is concerned by the ongoing detention of government critics in Zimbabwe, including Job Sikhala MP. The Minister of State for Development and Africa raised these concerns, and the case of Job Sikhala specifically, with Zimbabwe’s President Emmerson Mnangagwa, when they met in the margins of His Majesty the King’s Coronation last month.

[Lord Oates (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that Answer. I welcome to the Public Gallery Steven Van Zandt and Jerry Dammers, musicians and songwriters who have done so much to campaign for freedom and justice in southern Africa. Does the Minister agree that today freedom and justice are under vicious assault in Zimbabwe? Will he and his ministerial colleagues work with SADC Ministers and the Commonwealth to make it clear to ZANU-PF that there can be no return to normal relations until Job Sikhala and all political detainees are released, political violence stops, and genuinely free and fair elections take place?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, I acknowledge the noble Lord’s insights and expertise on all issues to do with Zimbabwe. He knows the country very well, and I appreciate his tabling of the Question. With regard to the specific issue of human rights and the importance of progressing on human rights before the elections on 23 August, I assure the noble Lord that we are engaging with all key partners. As he is aware, Zimbabwe is very keen to progress its membership of the Commonwealth, and human rights are a pertinent part of that assessment. I know that we are working very closely with the secretariat in that respect. Ultimately, if Zimbabwe rejoins the Commonwealth, it will be a matter for all members of the Commonwealth, so it needs a cross-Commonwealth approach.

I assure the noble Lord also that we are fully seized with the different abuses of human rights, which regrettably and tragically continue to happen. Even this morning, I have heard of further arrests in that respect. The information is still coming through, but I am aware of further arrests that have been made. We have called for full transparency and the release of those being held in an arbitrary fashion and, indeed, when cases are being pressed, that those court cases are held in a transparent form.

[Lord Bellingham (Con)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his reply about Job Sikhala but it is not just Job Sikhala who has been arrested: six students have been arrested for doing nothing more than protesting against politicians being arrested. Emmanuel Chitima, Comfort Mpofu, Lionel Madamombe, Benjamin Watadza, Darlington Chigwena and Gamuchirai Chaburumunda may have exotic names but they are not being kept in exotic conditions. They are in prison for protesting, perfectly legally and freely. We must wake up to the fact that Emmerson Mnangagwa is actually more of the same after the evil Mugabe.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend raises a number of cases and I assure him that we are fully aware of them. We remain deeply concerned by the failure to address the allegations of abduction and abuse of opposition members. There are also the cases of Joana Mamombe—which he has raised—Cecilia Chimbiri and Netsai Marova. I assure noble Lords that we have raised our concerns with the Government and have publicly called for full investigation into these allegations. If Zimbabwe wishes to be counted among those countries that are recognised for progression not just bilaterally but, importantly, within multilateral organisations, it is vital that it stands up and ensures transparency of justice systems. It must also ensure that those who are taken and arrested are done so on transparent charges and that if they are not held on any substantial charges, they are released. Freedom of speech, freedom of the press and freedom of protest are key parts of any progressive democracy.

[Baroness Hoey (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, many of us warned for many years that Mnangagwa would be worse than Mugabe, particularly because of his years of repression and what happened in Matabeleland. He is clearly not going to change and, sadly, things such as an invitation to the Coronation do not help—they help him in Zimbabwe. Does the Minister accept that it is very unlikely that there will be genuinely free and fair elections in Zimbabwe in August? We saw just last night a very well-respected human rights lawyer, Obey Shava, being beaten almost to death by ZANU-PF thugs. Is it not time for us to stop pandering to Mnangagwa and to condemn what is happening right throughout the country loudly and clearly to the international world?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I also welcome the noble Baroness’s deep insights and expertise on Zimbabwe. I am aware of the case this morning—as I sat down, I got an update on the alleged attack on the lawyer. I am in the process of getting further information on that attack and will update the House and the noble Baroness accordingly. I agree with her that the actions we have seen from the President of Zimbabwe and his Government, particularly on areas of legislative change which they are also bringing into force, are of deep and alarming concern because they mean the suppression of civil society within Zimbabwe. As I said, these are key tenets of any democratic reform and an open and vibrant civil society is a key part of that. I assure noble Lords that we want to work very constructively on this agenda. There is a lot of expertise in your Lordships’ House and we want to leverage that to ensure that we can continue to make the case pertinently and forcefully and, one hopes, ensure progression on the ground.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, on that final point, the Minister knows that I have stressed the importance of civil society. When states fail their citizens, it is civil society that stands up for human rights. I have urged the Minister to support civil society in the broadest terms, including trade unionists who have been under attack in Zimbabwe. What are the Government and the FCDO doing to contact global trade union institutions so that it is not just our voice but voices throughout the world that condemn this action and can promote a free and fair election? Will the Minister assure me that he will contact international trade union institutions?

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[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I can give the noble Lord that assurance and as he will have extensive contacts in this respect, particularly with a focus on Zimbabwe, I would welcome his insights into the key components, organisations and individuals. I assure the noble Lord that we have engaged directly with the Government of Zimbabwe, particularly on the PVO amendment Bill and the so-called patriotic amendments. That Bill would extend state control over civil society organisations, the whole point of which is to challenge Governments. We are making that point very forcefully to the Zimbabwean Government directly.

[Lord St John of Bletso (CB)]

My Lords, ahead of the general election in Zimbabwe on 23 August this year, what assurances have His Majesty’s Government been given on international election observers for this election and an updated election register?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, ultimately, of course, it will be for the people of Zimbabwe to choose their Government in August. My right honourable friend the Minister for Development and Africa reiterated these points in the meeting he had with the President of Zimbabwe on 5 May. There has been some progress; for example, the announcement by Zimbabwe that invitations have now gone out to observer missions for the elections. It is important that international and domestic observer missions, including those of SADC, the EU and the AU, are able to independently observe the 2023 elections. We are also talking to the Commonwealth about its role within the context of the elections. We are also aware of a petition submitted to Ministers calling for Zimbabweans in the diaspora to be granted the right to vote in the elections to ensure greater engagement and direct involvement of Zimbabweans across the world. I will continue to update the House but I assure all noble Lords that the onus is very much on the Government of Zimbabwe to ensure that all citizens can vote. The UK continues to press that point to them.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the Minister referred to Zimbabwe’s desire to re-enter the Commonwealth. Further to the questions from the noble Lord, Lord Bellingham, and my noble friend regarding political detention, will the Government outline in clear terms in advance of the elections the criteria we would set for the UK Government to consider what the human rights record should be, especially for political prisoners?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord will be aware that the criteria for readmission to the Commonwealth are not just for the UK Government to set; it is for all Commonwealth countries. There are 56 in total and the decision on whether Zimbabwe rejoins the Commonwealth is for all Commonwealth members. I assure the noble Lord that the UK will support readmission if Zimbabwe meets the admission requirements, which are very focused on human rights, and complies with the values and principles set out in the Commonwealth charter.

Hong Kong: Bounties for Exiled Pro-democracy Activists

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 6th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, in begging leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper, I declare a non-financial interest as the patron of Hong Kong Watch.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, as my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary said, we will not tolerate any attempts by the Chinese authorities to intimidate individuals in the United Kingdom. Let me be absolutely clear: Hong Kong’s national security law has no jurisdiction here. As the noble Lord will be aware, we suspended our extradition agreement with Hong Kong indefinitely in 2020. We continue to call on Beijing and Hong Kong to end the targeting of those who stand up for freedom and democracy.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, as always, I am grateful to the Minister for his response. But with bounties of 1 million Hong Kong dollars now on the heads of eight exiled Hong Kongers, 1,200 pro-democracy activists and advocates incarcerated in Hong Kong, including the British citizen Jimmy Lai, and seven parliamentarians—two from your Lordships’ House—sanctioned by the Chinese Communist Party, how can the Minister justify the Government’s decision to send a Trade Minister from your Lordships’ House recently to Hong Kong to deepen business ties? How does he respond to the calls last night from his noble friend, the noble Lord, Lord Patten of Barnes, and the noble and learned Lord, Lord Falconer of Thoroton, calling on the remaining British judges to withdraw from the Hong Kong courts rather than giving them the thin veneer of respectability?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, he will be aware that we have been very critical of the fact that the justice systems in Hong Kong are not as per the agreement signed with the United Kingdom Government when we ceased our control of Hong Kong. Many individual judges have made key decisions and we hope that those who are still operating in Hong Kong will continue to consider their own status and professional standing in light of decisions they make for the future.

On his first point, of course we recognise the issue of those who have been sanctioned: that is why my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary recently met those British parliamentarians who have been sanctioned, and those meetings will continue. We are also aware that the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, has highlighted the recent warrants issued to people within the United Kingdom. That is why it is important to emphasise the suspension of that extradition treaty.

On the third element, the Trade Minister’s visit, of course we have relations with China; we continue to have diplomatic relations. I have said before from the Dispatch Box that we have many disagreements with China; I am the Human Rights Minister. We have campaigned and led the charge, for example, on statements on Xinjiang, which I am very grateful for the noble Lord’s input into, but equally we recognise that there are key global issues where China has a role to play and where engagement is important. When we have engagement on the trade side, my noble friend Lord Johnson also raised the important issue of human rights directly and publicly during his visit.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, I think it probably is time for the remaining British judges to withdraw from Hong Kong—I think that is in the Minister’s mind as well. Although the British never offered full democracy to Hong Kong, at least we did not go around hunting distinguished pro-democracy campaigners, putting bounties on their heads and trying to arrest them in the middle of the night. Will he nudge his colleagues to remind their Chinese counterparts again that if China ever wants to be treated seriously as a civilised nation, it has to behave in a much more civilised and less thuggish way?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend. It is important that, if China wishes to sustain and strengthen the position of Hong Kong on the global stage, it not only adheres to what it was a signatory to but recognises that there are important elements in recognising the vibrancy of any financial centre. I spent 20 years in the financial services sector and dealt extensively with areas in China and Hong Kong. One of the points we need to emphasise as a Government is that the vibrancy of a financial centre is protected through the transparency of justice systems and the very transparent application of laws. The national security law in China is set up to intimidate, prosecute and arrest and detain innocent individuals, Jimmy Lai being just one example. I assure my noble friend that we will continue to make that case forcefully, directly and bilaterally, to the Chinese Administration as well as to those in authority in Hong Kong.

[Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab)]

My Lords, as your Lordships know, along with the noble Lord, Lord Alton, I have been sanctioned by the Chinese, and it is not just me but my whole family. The long arm of China is something we have to be very conscious of. It is now described by lawyers internationally as transnational suppression. Many nations are now doing this: their reach goes beyond their own borders when they oppress their citizens. We have seen it with Russia and Iran and we are seeing it with China. What concerns young Hong Kongers who live in this country is that they might not be able to travel. They are fearful that, in transit, they will be arrested by less hospitable, less human rights-concerned nations and transported back to either Hong Kong or China to be prosecuted.

The threat to the safety of those who have had these bounties placed on their heads is very serious and real. We have to remember that a police station was set up in Glasgow where arrests could be made and intimidation applied to people who have settled in this country because of their fears. I ask the Minister, who I know is very sensitive to all this, what the Government are doing in their conversations with China and with the leaders in Hong Kong. Why are more of them not put on targeted Magnitsky sanctions lists? I want to hear what the Government do when they meet Chinese officials.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I know these things directly from our conversations and I am grateful to the noble Baroness for her valuable insights. Equally, I know the great challenges imposed on many colleagues, both in this House and in the other place. Indeed, there are members of His Majesty’s Government who are now Ministers and are subject to the sanctions she listed. On the issue of future Magnitsky sanctions, I am proud of our record across the piece. We continue to look at all our levers to ensure that those who commit egregious abuses of human rights are held to account.

On the specific transnational issues, my right honourable friend the Security Minister, Tom Tugendhat, who has himself experienced the impact of sanctions, has been directing the Defending Democracy Taskforce to review our UK approach to transnational repression, specifically with China and Hong Kong. Let me be very clear: there are three major things we ask consistently. We call on Beijing to remove the national security law; that has to happen. We consider China to be in an ongoing state of non-compliance with the Sino-British joint declaration, which is why we suspended our extradition agreement. We continue to work with other partners, including agencies such as Interpol, to ensure that there are no abuses of these international agencies as well.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, is participating remotely.

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[Baroness Meyer (Con)]

My Lords, what specific steps will the Government take to work with our international partners to protect those eight individuals?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we do work with our international partners, but we also ensure that particularly those under UK jurisdiction are fully protected. Individuals who may be at heightened risk are provided full support, including protective security guidance and other measures where necessary. I will not go into the specific details, but I assure my noble friend that we work with key partners to ensure that these protections are afforded not just in the United Kingdom but, as has been indicated by two noble Lords with their own concerns and those of their families, when they travel internationally.

[The Lord Bishop of Exeter]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his answers, but does he not agree that this case is yet further evidence for the revisionist tendencies of the Chinese Government when it comes to human rights? This tendency will only intensify as China tries to use its economic and political muscle to mute its critics, so does it not underscore the importance of His Majesty’s Government working tirelessly to revive the spirit of universality that originally inspired the human rights project in upholding core rights and freedoms?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the right reverend Prelate. China is a member of many international organisations, including as a P5 member of the United Nations. It continues to subscribe to many of the key charters of these organisations, including the UN, and what he has related is very much part of its alignment with them. We need to keep making the case. The economic dependence of many countries across the world is very clear. That economic dependency extends not just to a five-year or 10-year period but is often across a generation, and we need to ensure that there are alternatives. It is not enough just to say that we are standing up for the principles against the sometimes disabling effect of some of the quite eye-watering deals that are done; we need to ensure that we work with key partners to offer co-ordinated alternative responses for long-term infrastructure and development in key parts of the world.

Iran

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 6th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall repeat a Statement made by my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary in the other place on the threat that Iran poses to the United Kingdom and the actions that the Government are taking to counter it. The Statement is as follows:

“Since protests began in Iran last September, the Iranian regime has dramatically increased its attempts to silence dissent, which have never been confined to Iranian territory. While our police, intelligence and security agencies have been confronting these threats for many years, their seriousness and intensity have increased in recent months. In the last 18 months, there have been at least 15 credible threats to kill or kidnap British nationals and others living in the United Kingdom by the Iranian regime.

We have evidence that Farsi-language media outlets operating out of the United Kingdom and the individuals who work for them have also been targeted. One such company is Iran International. As my right honourable friend the Security Minister told the House on 20 February, Iran International’s employees have been threatened with kidnap and murder, and they have been subjected to a debilitating campaign of aggressive online harassment. Such threats are a direct attack on press and media freedom, and a direct attack on public safety. This Government will never tolerate such threats on British soil or on the territory of our friends and allies.

We know from working closely with our international partners that these Iranian menaces extend beyond the UK to the rest of Europe and the wider world. In March this year, an Iranian-orchestrated plot was stopped in Athens. We have seen similar attempts in the United States, Türkiye, France and Denmark. Such brazen activity is unacceptable. These actions demonstrate the Iranian regime’s increasing desperation in the face of its unpopularity at home and isolation abroad.

The first duty of His Majesty’s Government is to protect the British people and those who have made their home here in the United Kingdom. Whenever necessary, the Government will not hesitate to defend the freedom of the press. My right honourable friend the Home Secretary leads our work on countering Iranian state threats. Our police, security and intelligence agencies are working together around the clock to identify, deter and prevent Iranian threats to our national security. My right honourable friend the Security Minister leads work to protect the integrity of our democracy in the UK from foreign interference through the Government’s Defending Democracy Taskforce.

The Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office leads our work on sanctions. We have designated more than 350 individuals and organisations linked to the Iranian regime, covering its military, security and judiciary. We have sanctioned the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps in its entirety. Our diplomatic network is co-ordinating with our friends and allies around the world to reinforce our response, including the US, Australia, New Zealand, Canada and the European Union.

The cowardly attacks planned by the Iranian regime on British soil violate the most elementary rules of diplomatic relations between states. I have twice summoned Iran’s most senior diplomat in London to explain his Government’s activities, most recently following Iran International’s decision to temporarily relocate its broadcasting service. It is intolerable that any media outlet should be forced to leave the United Kingdom because the Iranian regime is threatening to kidnap and murder its journalists.

I am in no doubt that every part of this House will share my sense of outrage. There is clear evidence that the Iranian regime continues to prepare operations against individuals in Europe and beyond. We have made representations to the Iranian Foreign Ministry. We emphasised, in no uncertain terms, our determination to pursue any Iranian agent who would harm the UK or our allies. We will also continue to work with our international partners to identify, expose and counter the threats made against us.

The UK is clear that we need to go further, so today I am announcing to the House further measures that constitute a toolkit I would prefer not to use, but the decision on whether I do so is firmly in the hands of the Iranian regime. First, we will establish a new Iran sanctions regime. This will be the first wholly new geographic autonomous sanctions regime that the United Kingdom has created since leaving the European Union. It will give us new and enhanced powers to counter Iran’s hostile and destabilising activities in the UK and around the world, allowing us to impose asset freezes and travel bans on more of Iran’s decision-makers and those doing its bidding.

In particular, we will have broader powers to target those involved in the regime’s efforts: to undermine peace, stability and security in the region and internationally; to proliferate arms or weapons technology from Iran; to undermine democracy, respect for the rule of law and good governance; and to carry out other hostile activities towards the UK and our partners, including threats to our people, property or national security. We expect to bring the necessary legislation to Parliament later this year.

Secondly, I can tell that House that today we have designated a further 13 individuals and entities responsible for serious human rights violations inside Iran. This package of sanctions includes: five senior officials from Iran’s notorious prison system, which is rife with torture and abuse of prisoners; further measures targeting the Supreme Council of the Cultural Revolution, as the organisation that enforces social and cultural norms that oppress Iranian citizens; and six key actors responsible for suppressing freedom of expression online, including the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps’ cyber defence command and the Supreme Council of Cyberspace.

Our actions are a direct response to the escalation of Iran’s reprehensible behaviour in the United Kingdom. We are not seeking to escalate; our aim is to prevent and deter hostile Iranian activity on British soil and on the territory of our partners and allies. Iran is selling drones to Russia. It attacks its neighbours and even attacks its own people when they stand up for human rights and the most basic freedoms. It is my fervent hope that there will be brighter days ahead for the relationship between our two countries, but we cannot take any steps in that direction until the regime ceases its deplorable activities. Until that day comes, we remain steadfast in our efforts to stop Iranian aggression and protect the United Kingdom. I commend this Statement to the House.”

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[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, I too thank the Minister for repeating the Statement and, from these Benches, we welcome it; there is clearly cross-party agreement on this, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, made clear.

As the Foreign Secretary said in the other place today, our quarrel is not with the Iranian people but with their present leadership and the revolutionary guard, which has carried out so many major human rights abuses. It is appalling to see the increased oppression that has occurred over recent times, especially of women. Those who are standing up for rights and freedoms in Iran are exceptionally brave, and many have suffered unbearable consequences. Clearly, the Iranian regime is, as we have heard, reaching out beyond its territories in the attempt to stifle dissent. It is chilling to hear that, since the start of 2022, there have been more than 15 credible threats to kill or kidnap British or UK-based individuals by the Iranian regime.

Iran is not the only regime to seek to do so, as we know, but I have a number of questions to raise. Can the Minister spell out the extent to which we are moving in lockstep with the EU and other partners? I would expect nothing less from him. The Minister always and rightly makes clear that sanctions are most effective when they are implemented jointly with others. Can he spell out more details, and are there areas of difference? The Government are putting in place a further sanctions regime and not proscribing the revolutionary guard, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, has just pointed out. Is this because that could limit any engagement with it? We agree, after all, that it is the driving force in Iran, in particular in relation to the crackdown on human rights.

As the noble Lord, Lord Collins, did, I ask about the JCPOA. The UK and the EU rightly and hugely regretted the decision by President Trump to pull out of the JCPOA on the grounds that the good was not the best, opting as a result for the worst. What progress are we making to restore some effective control over Iran’s nuclear ambitions? Predictably, by pulling out, Iran took that as an opportunity to develop its programme further.

Like the noble Lord, Lord Collins, I would like to ask about others who are oppressed as a result of Iran’s actions, and I would like to ask about the dual nationals in particular. I expect the Minister will have heard Richard Ratcliffe, who battled so long and hard, and eventually successfully, for Nazanin’s release. Of course, many of us here raised her case. Richard has said that the Government have not put the cases of the dual nationals high enough in their list of priorities. It is therefore very concerning to hear the Foreign Secretary in the other place—and I also heard him this afternoon—say that his last contact in this regard with relevant Iranian Ministers or others was in 2021. That hardly shows that these cases are a high priority for the Government.

The Foreign Secretary did mention that the Minister has been in more recent contact, so could he please update us? And could he please update us particularly in relation to Morad Tahbaz, who it was assumed would be released much earlier with the other dual nationals and whose health is now very poor?

We know about the extreme pressure on the BBC’s Persian service, and the Statement mentions press freedom. What can the Minister tell us about how the BBC’s Persian service can best be supported and defended? It is not enough simply to urge the BBC to continue, which is what the Foreign Secretary seemed to indicate this afternoon. What assistance can the Government give?

The Minister will know that, in recent times, there was the surprising slight rapprochement between Iran and Saudi Arabia brought about by Chinese diplomatic intervention. The hope has been that this will help bring forward a reduction of conflict in, for example, Yemen. But what effect does the Minister see in terms of the position of the Iranian Government more generally as a result of this? In the Statement, the Government seem not to be optimistic, since the new sanctions will be addressing Iranian efforts to undermine peace, stability and security in the region and internationally. We know that Iran is supplying drones to Russia and possibly also to regimes in various African countries. Again, the new sanctions regime, generally speaking, addresses this.

We know of rumours of oil going out via various routes, despite sanctions. The Minister will be aware, I am sure, of Iranian actions that have interrupted commercial traffic, including tankers in the Gulf. What action are the Government taking with international partners on this? The United States has said that its navy intervened to prevent Iran seizing two commercial tankers in the Gulf of Oman on Wednesday. This matters, because about a fifth of the world’s supply of seaborne crude oil and oil products passes through the Strait of Hormuz.

The Minister will be acutely aware of the tinderbox that is this region and the actions of the various players within it. The Iranian people have shown great courage in seeking to stand up to the human rights abuses from which they are suffering. It had been hoped that the JCPOA would pave the way for better relations with Iran, for mutual benefit, yet even this is fast reaching a crisis point. At this key time, I look forward to the Minister’s response.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, for their support for the actions that the Government have taken. Both raised the issue, understandably, of the IRGC proscription. As both noble Lords will know, we have sanctioned the IRGC in its entirety. The separate list of terrorist organisation proscriptions is kept under review. I cannot comment further than this. What I can say to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, directly, though, is that of course we co-ordinate with our key allies on the actions we are taking. Indeed, on the actions we have taken today, we have worked very closely with our key colleagues across the European Union and the US. Recently, we shared in advance the actions we would be taking.

The issue of state threats is quite specific. It has ratcheted up the challenge that we face. Also, as the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, said, on the direct security threat, we have witnessed for a long time the destabilising efforts of Iran within the region. However, this is not just about Iran. We have seen the suppression of its own population, which the noble Baroness referred to. We have seen the suppression and continuing instability through proxies, particularly in the Yemen conflict, which I will come on to in a moment. We have also seen further action on non-compliance on the JCPOA, which the noble Baroness mentioned. We have kept it on the table. I appreciate and thank the noble Baroness for recognising, even when the previous US Administration pulled back, that we kept it on the table. This is still the live agreement. It has been there for the Iranians to sign since autumn 2022. It is not perfect, as we all know. It does not cover everything—for example, ballistic missiles—but it is there.

Linked to that, we have been engaging with key European partners, the US and key regional partners on the importance of Iran returning to some semblance of ensuring compliance with this important issue in fulfilment of the key objective that Iran does not proceed to an enrichment which allows it to produce nuclear weapons. That must remain a fundamental priority for all of us.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised the issue of the legislation and whether we will bring this forward at the earliest opportunity. He is right, of course, that we must do this as soon as possible. We have certainly been the leaders on this in terms of country designation, which the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, asked about. Sharing what we are doing with our key allies ensures co-ordination. The instruments that we will use will be secondary legislation. Statutory instruments will be introduced in this respect. I will keep both Front Benches informed—not just in the Chamber—of progress in this regard.

I take on board the importance of a state threat cell, which the noble Lord, Lord Collins, talked about. We work very closely with the Home Office in co-ordinating our work with it and with other key departments. That continues to be the case. There are different committee structures already set up and the concept which the noble Lord proposes is already ingrained and embellished in some of the work that we are doing. I assure noble Lords that we do talk to each other across government departments.

On the issue of the UN, I have just checked with the Box. Our United Kingdom ambassador to the UN is currently live, talking about Resolution 2231 and on the broader debate on the role of Iran. It qualifies what the noble Baroness said about the ongoing and growing instability caused through the use of drones in Russia’s war on Ukraine. We are taking leadership on that as presidents of the UN Security Council. I am sure that noble Lords noticed that this was debated yesterday at the Human Rights Council. I issued a statement thereafter about the appalling and abhorrent practice that Iran has undertaken in terms of executions of its own people and the continuing suppression. We have called that out with about 56 countries that supported the statement in that respect. These actions are co-ordinated. In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, in this respect we will continue to work as we have done.

On the issue of dual nationals and access, I am engaging directly but also, if the noble Baroness will excuse me, at times quite discreetly on these important issues with key allies. She will be reassured to know that I take this as a personal priority on my patch. Yes, I did hear the brave and courageous Richard Ratcliffe. I gave evidence to that inquiry on detainees—or hostage taking, as it was termed by the Foreign Affairs Committee. It must be a priority of any Minister and any Government to ensure that we are fully aware of and engaged with the families supporting them. I have recently engaged with them, including those in the case of Mr Tahbaz. I continue to engage frequently with his key family members. This morning, in another part of the world, I spoke with the mother of Mr Alaa el-Fattah, from Egypt. It is important that these meetings are held at ministerial level, to show that there is direct access. It not only supports the families but sends a very strong message to the Governments, some of whom are our partners and others who we have a direct challenge with, that this is not just about a family being on their own.

We will of course take very seriously the findings of the Foreign Affairs Committee review on this. I will never say we are doing the perfect job, and there are always things we can do. Finally, as I said right at the start, I will continue to update noble Lords—the Front Benches in particular—on further steps we may be taking.

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)]

My Lords, I draw the House’s attention to my register of interests entry, particularly as the trade envoy to Iran. I very strongly support what the Minister and the Government have said. Does the Minister agree that this is an appalling throwback to the way Iran behaved immediately after the Iranian Revolution in 1979, when there were a lot of attacks and assassinations in European countries, particularly France? It is utterly intolerable that a state that calls itself a legitimate Government should seek to attack people within their own country, on British soil.

The Minister referred to the new measures as a toolkit. Can he say precisely in what way this differs in its scope, and not just in the number of entities, from the regime of sanctions that we have had in the past? Can he also say something about the role of the E3? Does the E3, including France and Germany, which played an important part in developing our negotiations, particularly over the nuclear deal, still exist? Or, now that we are outside the EU, has that fallen by the wayside and we have to co-ordinate with the EU more generally?

Can the Minister also tell me whether the Charity Commission has been looking at some of the Iranian cultural and religious institutions in this country, to make sure that they comply strictly to their charitable objectives and are not supporting any of these utterly deplorable acts and threats that we have seen in this country?

Lastly, on the JCPOA, the Minister described it as being alive. He will know, as will other Members of the House, that there have been a lot of reports that America is trying to develop an alternative to the JCPOA—a more informal, less detailed agreement, but one that would freeze the present position. I wonder whether he can comment on that, though I have my doubts that he will be able to or want to.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I will take each of the issues in turn. First, on the governance and the announcement made today, this is a new Iran-specific sanctions regime, which is, in terms of the geography, the first autonomous one. We have had rollovers of what we did with the European Union, but this is specific to Iran. When we have previously sanctioned, we have done so under the so-called Magnitsky-style sanctions for human rights violations. That is why the Foreign Secretary was able to announce a further 13 designations under that governance structure of the human rights sanctions regime.

On the issue of charities, we of course work very closely with the Charity Commission. Without going into further details, there is an ongoing review of all organisations that operate to ensure that they adhere to the rules of the Charity Commission. On the suppression of communities within Iran, it is startling and abhorrent that in 2022 Iran executed at least 576 people. That is a minimum figure and is nearly double the previous year. The latest assessments in 2023 indicate that the rate of executions continues to climb, I think to circa 300 already this year. A lot of these executions have what can only be described as a fragile basis. Our long-standing view on the death penalty is very clear: we oppose it. Equally, it is shocking to see that these are young people, often men, who have committed nothing but protest. Even some who have brought glory to Iran are now subject to this most abhorrent of measures.

I referred to the JCPOA as a live deal in as much as it is the one on the table. E3 co-operation continues. As I said, we continue to engage at official level. There is much speculation about, but I will resist the temptation to comment on it; my noble friend will appreciate that. Its primary objective must be non-proliferation and that Iran does not progress on to acquiring nuclear weapons. The JCPOA provides those provisions. As I said, it still awaits a key signature: that of Iran.

[Viscount Stansgate (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Statement. The House will support and understand the measures that have been announced. The Statement refers to

“other hostile activities towards the UK and our partners”.

Can the Minister confirm that this includes cyberattacks and cyberwarfare conducted from within Iran, whether the actors are state actors or bad actors operating from within Iran?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I can answer that: yes, we have recognised, both privately and publicly, that there are state actors and others who seek to target the United Kingdom and our key allies. Technology is a new tool, and we need to be very vigilant on mitigation to ensure that the private sector and our public sector services are fully protected.

[Lord Stevens of Birmingham (CB)]

The UK Government rightly proscribed Hezbollah in 2019 and Hamas in 2021, both of which receive material support from the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps. Can the Minister say whether there are circumstances in which proscription of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps would be contemplated? If so, what are they?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary and I have said, on whether the IRGC is sanctioned in its completeness, we take any issue of proscribing organisations seriously. It is very much a decision for the Home Office, as the noble Lord will be aware, but we co-ordinate our activities extensively. Any decision we take in the future remains an option for us to consider, but I do not want to go further than that, nor would noble Lords expect me to.

[Baroness Bennett of Manor Castle (GP)]

My Lords, I join the general welcome for the government actions reported in the Statement and pick up a point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, about the rapprochement between Iran and Saudi Arabia, which is reportedly mediated by China and is reflected in the meeting between their Oil Ministers yesterday on the sidelines of the OPEC conference in Vienna. Can the Minister tell me whether the Government are reconsidering UK arms sales to Saudi Arabia in the light of these relationships, given that arms sales totalled, in an official declaration, £7.9 billion since the bombing of Yemen started in March 2015? The Campaign Against Arms Trade estimates that the total is £23 billion.

In that context—the actions of the Iranian state that have provoked this reaction by the British Government—what impact does the Minister see on the war in Yemen and the terrible humanitarian conditions there, given that it is one of the world’s worst humanitarian crises? It is also an enormous environmental threat, in the light of the sadly misnamed tanker, the “Safer”, off Sanaa. I do not know whether the Minister can update me, either now or in writing, because the latest information I could find was talk of a UN mission to pump the 1.1 million barrels of oil out of the “Safer”. At the end of May it was reported that this was about to start, but there has been no report since then. How is the behaviour of the Iranian regime, and indeed of the Saudis, likely to impact on attempts to defuse this environmental time bomb?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, yes, I acknowledge that. The noble Baroness, Lady Northover, also asked about the Saudis and the new deal that was signed between the Saudis and Iran. I was in Saudi Arabia recently, in Riyadh, and met some of the key people involved in the direct negotiations with the Houthis. What I can share with the noble Baroness is that since that deal has been signed, which I asked directly of the Saudi Minister who visited on Monday, a month on, he smiled and said, “We will wait and see how stabilisation works in the region”. Thankfully, we have seen, through some of the work done directly by the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, a fragile peace that has been sustained in Yemen. I have had extensive meetings with various representatives of the Yemeni Government, including, this week, the Prime Minister. We have also met various leaders, including the Foreign Minister. When I was in Saudi Arabia, I met the Saudi Arabian ambassador, Mohammed bin Jaber, who is leading the direct engagement with the Houthis and the other parties within Yemen.

While the noble Baroness is correct and we stand by our strong humanitarian support for Yemen, the situation is improving and we are playing our part, directly and through the UN, to ensure that the UN-mandated process is further strengthened by the Saudis in this respect. While I hear what the noble Baroness says about support for its arms industry and our defence sales, those are carried out under a rigorous programme and practice. But it is important to recognise where there is progress. In what is a challenging situation of fragility across the Middle East and Yemen, we are seeing progress on the ground in accessibility and reconstruction, led primarily by some of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia’s efforts.

If I may just pick up the point raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, about the US and the interventions, our militaries work very closely. Earlier this year, regrettably and tragically, we again saw the shipment of arms from Iran through the Gulf to supply the Houthi machine, but we were able to intercept and we have been able to share information with key Gulf partners on the interceptions that we have made and to make the case for the importance of ensuring that we can stop this arms flow from Iran.

On the FSO “Safer”—which is an Arabic word that translates in an Anglicised way—we want to make the “Safer” safer. The first step was very much about money, and that money has now been gathered. The UN, using British expertise and that of other nations, is working on ensuring that the environmental catastrophe that would happen if the tanker’s load was shed across the Gulf is being directly dealt with. A lot of work is being done in stabilising the vessel before any operations can begin. While I am not going to tempt fate and say there is good news, there has been some real progress and the first thing was about ensuring the financing was in place, which I can assure the noble Baroness is very much now in situ.

Ukraine: Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 6th July 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

To ask His Majesty’s Government (1) what assessment they have made of recent developments at the Zaporizhzhia Nuclear Power Plant and (2) what contingency plans are being made in the event of the power plant being damaged.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we remain gravely concerned about the implications of Russia’s illegal invasion of Ukraine for nuclear safety, security and safeguards. We take President Zelensky’s concern about possible Russian threats to the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant, which is currently under illegal Russian control, extremely seriously. We are in regular contact with Director-General Grossi of the International Atomic Energy Agency and with the highest levels of the Government of Ukraine regarding the situation at the nuclear power plant. Working with our international partners, we continue to call for Russia to grant the IAEA full access to the nuclear plant, as called for by Director-General Grossi on 5 July. It is vital that IAEA staff have full access to the nuclear plant in order to monitor the safety and security of the site. Let me assure the right reverend Prelate that the Government also have well-developed and tested contingency plans to cover a range of eventualities.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

I thank the Minister for his reply. Obviously, anything we can do to work with our international partners to put pressure on Russia to allow the IAEA access to the site, as it has requested, is now of utmost importance. I hope that the Minister will do all he can in talks with our international partners to put that pressure on Russia. Can he give any more information about our own domestic contingency plans, in the event of a nuclear disaster of some sort taking place on the site?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, as the right reverend Prelate may be aware, much of the site has been scaled down, in terms of its direct energy provision. There is currently only one operating generator on the site, and even that has been scaled down sufficiently and specifically for this purpose. Of course, the risk remains very high, but we have been assured by the IAEA that there is no immediate threat. I caveat that by saying that Director-General Grossi’s requirements and requests for full access to the site are important, and we are working through those with international partners, including countries with key influence over Russia, because that is vital in order to reassure people not only in Ukraine, but across the wider area and region.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I very much welcome the Minister’s response; obviously, it is key to get proper access for full inspections. The United Kingdom now assumes the presidency of the Security Council—I know the Minister will be going to New York shortly. What are the opportunities to raise this question directly with counterparts at the Security Council? This is a danger with no limitation in terms of country boundaries; it could spread throughout the world and cause untold damage. It is essential that we take action at the Security Council.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that we are doing just that. It will be of no surprise to your Lordships’ House that this is one of the key priorities, if not the number one priority, regarding Ukraine as a whole. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has engaged quite directly; for example, he met Director-General Grossi during the Ukraine Recovery Conference to ensure that the exact requirements are fully understood. The noble Lord raises a valid point about our presidency of the UN Security Council and my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary himself will be presiding over the session on Ukraine.

Unfettered access is key, particularly when we think about events that have damaging effects reaching far beyond the illegal war that Russia continues to wage. We have already seen, following the destruction of the dam, the damage caused by floating mines and the damage to agricultural land by pollutants. The effects of this war will be long lasting. I assure the noble Lord that we will engage on all these key elements during our presidency of the UN Security Council.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister recognise that, since Russia illegally seized control of the Zaporizhzhia nuclear plant, its behaviour has not been consistent with even the rather feeble international protocols that deal with nuclear plants in zones of conflict? Does he agree, therefore, that we should be thinking of strengthening those international protocols? If there are to be more nuclear power stations around the world—which is something that many of us would support—some of them will end up in conflict zones and stronger protocols will be needed to safeguard them. Can the Minister also give the thanks of this House to the director-general of the IAEA for the work that he has been doing to keep things more or less under control?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I assure the noble Lord that, on his second point, we will relay that to the director-general. On his first point, the missile attack on 9 March, which cut off the power supply to the Zaporizhzhia plant, has meant that contingency plans have been put in place, such as back-up generators. There are also now IAEA monitoring missions at all Ukrainian nuclear power plants across the country, and the United Kingdom is providing technical support to help the IAEA to fill, or backfill, any positions to keep all its priorities on track.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the concern that the IAEA has raised, in the very careful statement referred to by the Minister, brings the need for urgent talks through the review committee mechanisms of all the nuclear powers. At the end of this month there is due to be a preparatory committee meeting in Vienna, leading to the 2026 review committee of the NPT of all the nuclear powers. Does the Minister agree that there is a case for bringing forward that review conference quite urgently? The use of nuclear weapons, as well as the Government’s approach on domestic energy production by nuclear powers, is now an urgent matter, given the concerns. Bringing forward the conference would allow some of the discussions, as the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, suggested, to take place.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I note what the noble Lord has said about the NPT, which I will certainly take back to the department. The noble Lord will be acutely aware that one party to the NPT happens to be a country called Russia. Let us not forget that, when the invasion started in February last year, Mr Putin himself had signed the NPT just before on 4 January, yet his rhetoric—thankfully not his actions—has since followed a very different trajectory. While I agree with the noble Lord about the importance of co-operation, we must keep the NPT at the forefront of our minds; Russia is a signatory, but it is not just about signing documents, it is also about abiding by them.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, we all remember Chernobyl. Is there not a case, following something that my noble friend said a few moments ago, to call in Commonwealth countries and discuss with countries such as South Africa and India—which for reasons entirely beyond me are giving succour and support to Russia—that this could indeed be an international disaster beyond limit? If this wretched plant erupts in the way that Chernobyl did, who knows when the end will come.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, on the plant itself, I reiterate my earlier point: from the indications in the IAEA’s assessment reports, there is no imminent threat or challenge. That is why it is important that the IAEA is given full and unfettered access to make a comprehensive assessment. The nuclear plant has been much dialled down in terms of its capacity and energy production.

My noble friend talks about other key international partners. It is important to reflect that, in votes this year at the United Nations, which I have been involved with indirectly, we have seen a consistent level of 140-plus countries voting. With 193 countries in the UN, that is a very positive voting result for Ukraine’s position. On the countries mentioned by my noble friend, I note that, while they have long-standing relationships with Russia—the likes of India have historically had a strong military reliance on Russia—their abstentions should be put in context. They have not supported Russia’s position but have sought to abstain. Of course, we are aware of some of the meetings and diplomacy being undertaken currently by Russia, and I assure my noble friend that, in the context of bigger countries such as South Africa and India, we make a very strong case that the war on Ukraine cannot be underestimated; it is an illegal war on a sovereign territory, which is now being occupied by Russia, a P5 member of the United Nations.

That is compounded by the issue we are now talking about—the nuclear power plant. The direct results are not just an energy crisis in Europe, but a global food security crisis. We have seen the environmental damage caused by the pollutants that are now affecting the Dnipro river; the Black Sea grain initiative is also being impeded and the economies of countries in Europe and North Africa in particular are being directly challenged. The reality of this war is not limited to two countries or to a continent; it is a global challenge and we need to address it collectively.

[Lord Wigley (PC)]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that the first priority must be ending this war and safeguarding that nuclear plant in Ukraine? Does he recall that, following the Chernobyl disaster, a radioactive cloud was blown over the UK and deposited radioactive fallout on to the Welsh hills? That led to sheep being held back from the food chain for many months, undermining agriculture. Could he therefore give an assurance that, in looking at these implications, he will consult the farming unions to see what steps could be held in reserve in case this happens again?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, of course I will listen to the wise counsel of the noble Lord, and I will take that back. However, in preparing both for this Private Notice Question and our general approach to support for Ukraine, I am reassured that the wider implications are very much understood. I assure the noble Lord, as I have said repeatedly on a raft of different issues, that on any challenge in foreign policy we never forget our own back yard. The first priority of any Government is the security of their citizens, and we take that very seriously. I will follow up on the noble Lord’s point.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, in respect of the plant itself, it is important that the IAEA gets in to find out whether there are explosive devices on top of two of the reactors, why they would be put there and what likely damage they would do if they exploded. It is suggested that they are there for it to appear as though the Ukrainians have bombed the plant themselves. The most important thing here is not to get confused between perceived dangers and real dangers. This plant is of a particular design. My understanding is that the most dangerous nuclear fission that could come from it will have been depleted because it has not been working for months—I think it is iodine-113, though this is not from my expertise but from my reading. We need an authoritative explanation of the risks, from a nuclear engineer of repute, telling us what the potential consequences would be of further damage to this plant—not speculation by people from their recollections of previous incidents. This is a distinctive plant that was created in a particular way. My understanding is that we can be reassured that, while it would not be a good thing to happen and there would be significant local consequences, this is not a repeat of Chernobyl.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The noble Lord is well-informed by his reading, and his is very much an accurate assessment. This particular plant is much more modern and state-of-the-art. The fact is that most of its activities and energy generations have been turned down—indeed, most of the reactors are now not operational. Even without inspections, that assessment can be made. However, I add the necessary caveat that all of us, including Russia, will get reassurance when the IAEA can get access and, as the noble Lord said, there is an expert opinion on the table that we all recognise. This war will continue but it is in Russia’s interests, not just Ukraine’s and everyone else’s, to allow access. Russia itself has been a signatory to ensuring that this kind of access and assessments of facilities are done regularly, accurately and comprehensively.

[Lord Harris of Haringey (Lab)]

My Lords, I refer to my interest as chair of the National Preparedness Commission. I am not sure that the Minister answered the supplementary question from the right reverend Prelate, which was very much about what is actually being done in this country in the event of this happening and it being on the more severe end of concerns. First, could he specifically tell us what guidance has been provided to local resilience forums as to what they should be doing and preparing for? Secondly, what contingency arrangements have the Government put in place for communications with the general public to deal with any panic, concerns or legitimate fears that there might be?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

On the second point, the noble Lord himself will know that there is comprehensive contingency planning by any Government. This is the case with successive Governments—we will seek to mitigate against all eventualities, all risks and all concerns, and we will seek to prepare for them. On the issue of communication and more access to information and information that can be shared, I will take back what the noble Lord has suggested. I have been assured that, from a cross-government perspective, all the key agencies that need to be involved are fully involved. I cannot stress enough, as the noble Lord, Lord Browne, said in a previous question, that this plant, compared to those of previous nuclear incidents such as Chernobyl, is very different. However, I have been very careful to caveat that, because only when we get a full comprehensive assessment can we make a full overall assessment. Mitigations, assessments and contingency planning are very much in place. If there is further information to be shared, I will share it.