Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) (No. 17) Regulations 2022

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 25th January 2023 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That the Regulations laid before the House on 15 December 2022 be approved.

Relevant document: 25th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee. Considered in Grand Committee on 23 January.

Motion agreed.

Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) (No. 17) Regulations 2022

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 23rd January 2023 Grand Committee

Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That the Grand Committee do consider the Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) (No. 17) Regulations 2022

Relevant document: 25th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the instrument before us was laid on 15 December 2022 under powers provided by the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Act 2018. It makes amendments to the Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019. The instrument has been considered and not reported by the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments.

Our unprecedented package of sanctions makes it clear to Mr Putin and the wider international community that Russia’s territorial expansionism is unacceptable and will be met with a serious and escalating response. With these amendments, the UK, with our international partners, continues to put immense pressure on Mr Putin and Russia. The measure forms another part of the largest and most severe package of economic sanctions that Russia has ever faced.

I begin by outlining the main measures introduced through this latest piece of legislation. First, this instrument tightens existing regulations on investments, loans, securities and money market instruments to further close off indirect finance and further constrain the availability of international capital to Russia. It also prohibits new investments in Russia via third countries.

Secondly, this legislation introduces new restrictions on the provision of trust services to persons connected with Russia. This will particularly affect high net worth Russians who use trust services to manage their assets. The SI also suspends the Bank of England’s duty to recognise resolution action in respect of persons designated under the Russia regulations—the process by which the failure of financial institutions is managed—stemming a potential income stream for Mr Putin’s war machine.

Thirdly, the regulations prohibit the export of further specific goods across a range of sectors, including oil production and mining equipment, electronics and chemicals, as well as advanced materials and camouflage gear.

Fourthly and finally, this instrument also introduces further prohibitions on the provision of professional services to persons connected with Russia. This encompasses advertising, architecture, audit, engineering, IT consultancy and design services. These are areas where Russia is highly reliant on the UK and our allies for expertise. These prohibitions will severely debilitate the future growth of key Russian industries. Prohibitions on services imposed by the UK, the United States and the European Union account for between 75% and 83% of Russia’s imports in these sectors. For example, it is estimated that 77% of Russian architecture and engineering imports are from G7 economies. Taken as a whole, the No. 17 regulations cover more than £200 million worth of exports to Russia.

As with all our sanctions, the latest package has been developed in co-ordination with the UK’s international partners—a point that I know all noble Lords are very focused on and agree on. I assure noble Lords that we have worked with the European Union and the United States. Of course, we will continue to work with our allies to identify any further potential gaps or loopholes in our sanctions, and to address them.

To conclude, these new amendments demonstrate our determination to target those who participate in or facilitate Mr Putin’s illegal war of choice in Ukraine, and we continue to send a clear message about the cost of such a flagrant assault on sovereignty, democracy and equality. Since Mr Putin’s abhorrent invasion of Ukraine, the UK has now sanctioned more than 1,200 individuals and more than 120 entities, including 20 banks with global assets worth £940 billion and more than 130 oligarchs with a combined net worth of over £140 billion.

We continue to witness the impact that sanctions are having on Russia. The International Monetary Fund forecasts that Russia’s GDP will be 11% smaller in 2026 compared with pre-invasion forecasts and will not return to its pre-invasion level until 2027 at the earliest. Russian imports have plummeted by more than half, highlighting that even non-sanctioning countries are now limiting what they export to Russia.

I assure noble Lords that the United Kingdom will keep going with our sanctions until Russia ends its brutal invasion of Ukraine. I continue to welcome the cross-party support for this effort and beg to move.

[Lord Addington (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that thorough introduction to this SI. I do not think many of us will have any objection to the direction of this. What the Government are doing here is right. The fact that we can support them on this would make a pleasant change if it were not in such tragic circumstances.

The only real questions I can think of to add to that thorough introduction is: how are we reviewing the effect of sanctions? What is the input of our allies, which may have other intelligence resources, et cetera, to go on with this?

Nobody enjoys doing this. We are doing it because we have to, because Russia has decided to behave in a manner that may have been acceptable in the 1700s but is not acceptable any more. When a nation has determined that it does not want to be a part of another, it should not be forced to at gunpoint. Can the Minister give us some indication of how we are monitoring the effect and making sure that Russia totally understands what it can do to get rid of this, which is to leave Ukraine?

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his introduction. I repeat that the Opposition are totally at one with the Government and their actions to ensure that the illegal and immoral invasion of Ukraine is halted and that we take all possible steps against Russia for its breach of international law.

I have just a few questions about this additional SI on sanctions. The Minister mentioned that we are working with our allies, in particular the EU and other G7 partners. Can he tell us exactly how much these measures are aligned with the actions of the EU? Is there complete alignment now? On credit and securities, reference was made to closing loopholes. Are these loopholes that we have collectively discovered and want to stop or is this something that we focus on particularly because of the situation with London?

On that subject, according to the impact assessment, London still seems to trade significantly with Russia and imports more than other regions. Can the Minister say a little more about what more we need to do in terms of cleaning up London and the role of money laundering in particular?

We repeatedly pass legislation on sanctions. We have good law, if you like. But, of course, none of these laws is necessarily effective unless we also focus on enforcement. Can the Minister tell us a bit more about the capacity in the department and across Whitehall to ensure that all these sanctions that we are approving are effectively enforced? I suppose that it relates to the question the noble Lord asked about what assessment we make of effectiveness. Enforcement is really important.

Finally, on the penalties that arise—and we have covered this point before with regard to the Act and the statutory instruments that have come out of it—these new measures carry a maximum sentence of 10 years or a fine. Are there circumstances in which the Minister believes that the violations are so serious that they may lead to custodial sentences rather than fines? This relates to how much we focus on enforcement and what we can do to provide a deterrent to others breaching these regulations.

With those few questions and comments, I support the SI.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lords, Lord Addington and Lord Collins, for their strong support. That sends out a very strong message, not just to Russia and Mr Putin but to those who are trying to circumvent the impact of sanctions.

I assure the noble Lord, Lord Addington, that, partly as the sanctions come into play and we identify where the gaps are, we are monitoring the impact of these with our key partners to ensure that when it comes to the circumvention of the new rules—those who are trying to get round sanctions—we can close those loopholes, as I said in my introduction.

We co-ordinate with our key allies. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked about differences that arise. Because of the different governance regimes that exist, there are occasions when we may be slightly ahead of others. Sometimes the American system does not require the same level of governance in terms of imposing the sanctions. What we are seeking to do is to work very closely with our allies.

On the issue of enforcement, which both noble Lords raised, first and foremost we are working with our G7 partners to ensure effective implementation of sanctions on Kremlin-related entities and elites, including through the Russian Elites, Proxies, and Oligarchs Task Force. Following further commitments by the former Prime Minister in February, the Government have also continued to work on this issue and have delivered the economic crime Act to crack down further. One issue, which will be subject to further debates as we seek further to strengthen these provisions, is whether it is done through the register of overseas entities, reforming our unexplained wealth orders or our ability to take action. I fully accept that we need to keep this under very close scrutiny to ensure that any gaps can be addressed.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Watson of Wyre Forest (Lab)]

I am a new Member of this House, and this is my first time on an SI in Grand Committee. I apologise to the Minister if I am intervening on him inadvertently, but I am looking for one point of clarification. As I understand it, these regulations widen the scope to include advertising services within the remit of sanctions. Could the Minister confirm that that would also apply to data-targeted social media marketing services?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, for clarity and for the record, it covers all elements of that advertising, but on the specific points I will go back to the department to ensure I give a full answer. In welcoming the noble Lord and his scrutiny of legislation, I very much welcome his intervention. One thing I can say to him is that, over time, bearing in mind this package of sanctions, areas will arise that have not been looked at or, in practical terms, have not been covered by existing legislation. It is important, first, to identify and, secondly, to co-ordinate with key partners; we are doing both things. We are also monitoring the impact on private sector behaviour. All those things were reflected in my opening remarks that Russia is being impacted. The IMF’s forecast should not be taken lightly, and the reduction it shows is reflective of Russia’s actions. If there are further details, I will of course write to the noble Lord.

On the issue of FCDO staffing and the specifics of the question from the noble Lord, Lord Collins, at the end of 2021 and continuing through 2022, there were 48 substantive roles in the sanctions unit, which has now become the sanctions directorate. One would have hoped that we would not need to expand, but going from a unit to a directorate recognises the importance of this. We have doubled the number of officials focused on our response and we now have more than 100 permanent staff delivering that response. This number does not include those working across the FCDO and its overseas network who also cover sanctions as part of their designated roles.

On the financing of the Office of Financial Sanctions Implementation, the office has also doubled in size this financial year and continues to grow. As set out in its annual report released on 10 November 2022, OFSI scaled up to more than 100 full-time employees by the end of 2022, accelerating and enhancing the transformation programme. I also have a personal anecdote: one of the current senior officers who sits behind me and is now a full member of the sanctions team used to be a member of my private office, so Ministers are adding to the weight of our sanctions directorate.

With that, I look forward to further discussions and debates. Regrettably, I do not think that this will be the last of the sanctions we will impose on Russia. I am grateful to the noble Lords who have participated from their Front Benches; I again welcome the new noble Lord to the House and welcome his contributions and analysis. We stand firm and resolute with the people of Ukraine. We continue to support them and the Ukrainian Government until such time as Mr Putin does the right thing and withdraws from Ukraine.

Motion agreed.

Afghanistan: Girls and Women

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 23rd January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Gohir]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to the Taliban concerning its commitments to allow Afghan girls to go to school and Afghan women to work.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the latest announcements banning Afghan women from universities and aid work represent a further violation of the rights and freedoms of Afghan women and girls, and they have no religious or moral basis. We are working with the United Nations, NGOs and other donors to understand the impact of the bans and to ensure that lifesaving humanitarian assistance continues wherever possible. Alongside international partners, we will also continue to press the Taliban directly to lift those draconian decrees.

[Baroness Gohir (CB)]

I thank the Minister for his response. While we are waiting for the Taliban to shift their stance on women’s rights, what is plan B? Women are being erased from public life and are starving. My understanding is that there are some in the Taliban leadership willing to talk about women’s rights. Are there plans for the Government to make an official visit to Afghanistan, to talk directly with the Taliban on women’s rights? Also, are there plans to talk to the countries that have a good relationship with the Taliban, for example by convening a meeting with the various stakeholders? Ambassadors in London, particularly from Muslim-majority countries, could be brought together for a meeting. Are there plans to convene such a meeting?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Baroness that we are doing all the above. Indeed, from the time of the Taliban’s takeover, we have engaged directly with neighbouring countries. We are working directly with the United Nations. In fact, earlier this morning, I met with Sima Bahous and Amina Mohammed, the Deputy Secretary-General of the UN, who had just returned from visits to Afghanistan and the near neighbourhood. I am dealing with various Muslim countries directly, including the OIC, on engagement. We are also engaging directly with the Taliban; a number of visits have been made by our chargé from Doha, and those will continue.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

I recognise that the Minister addressed this issue in the Statement last Thursday, in which he mentioned the visit of the Deputy Secretary-General. Could he tell us a little more about her reaction to her meetings in Afghanistan and what possibility there is to pursue dialogue? He also mentioned the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation, which is critical to reaching out to other Islamic countries. Can he tell us whether he has met that organisation directly on this issue?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

On the noble Lord’s second point, I have met Tariq Bakheet directly in Jeddah—“Tariq” is a good name to have on these things—and we continue to engage directly with the OIC. The Deputy Secretary-General and the director of UN Women were both there, together with the SRSG. They went to Herat, Kabul and Kandahar and met a range of Taliban Ministers. About 40% of 50% of those involved with the NGO sector, for example, are women, so they made the case very powerfully for the need for that to continue. There has been some progress; for example, we have seen women doctors and nurses returning to the health sector. However, the situation is quite dire and they left Afghanistan very clear about the picture there. As we have said before, much of the power centres on the Emir in Kandahar, and his edict seems to be final.

[Baroness Hodgson of Abinger (Con)]

My Lords, widows and women who head households are now confined to their homes because they are unable to go out without a male escort. How can we ensure that aid will reach them, because people are starving there at the moment in this very cold winter?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, I pay tribute to my noble friend’s contribution in the field of working with Afghan women. I know that she recently met a series of Afghan women leaders, as did I. We are working with the United Nations and other agencies. There has been a pause on non-essential, non-humanitarian support, but we are also looking at workarounds. For example, in certain provinces—about 26 of the 36—there has been some movement where health workers have been allowed back. Martin Griffiths, the head of OCHA, is currently in Kabul and we will also be meeting him to establish what channels are open to us.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, I commend the Minister for being personally very committed and active on this issue, but can I probe him a bit further on the ban by the Taliban on women being seen by male doctors? Of course, women are being banned from education as well. The impact of that will literally be a death sentence for many women and their children, as well as elderly dependants. What is happening about women who need medical assistance and help? How is medical help reaching those women and families if they are being denied treatment by male doctors?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first let me tell the noble Baroness what we are doing with certain NGOs which are still operational. The concept of mahram is where a woman has to be accompanied by a male relative or near-relative. Even some of the NGOs have been working through that as a workaround while there have been restrictions, to ensure that women are seen and provided with the support that they need. The Deputy Secretary-General made another point that is particularly pertinent; I do not think we will see the Taliban retracting on the decrees, but they certainly seem open to workarounds, where I think there is some progress to be made. That said, the situation remains very dire.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister said in his earlier reply that the cruel and arbitrary treatment of women and girls had no religious justification. In view of that, and knowing what the Taliban are doing with their misunderstanding of Islam, could the Minister and the Government prevail on Muslim leaders around the world to condemn this sort of behaviour in forthright terms? The silence is deafening.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that we are doing exactly that. What better example could there be, perhaps, than seeing the Deputy Secretary-General of the United Nations—the second most senior person in international, multilateral organisations, herself a hijab-wearing Muslim—together with Sima Bahous, the leader of UN Women, also a Muslim, being part of the UN high-level delegation that attended? What that demonstrated to the Taliban directly was not just that they must engage women but that women must be pivotal to any society progressing. In every progressive society, irrespective of what the religion is, that is essential to ensure that society is progressive and that people prosper.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, the Taliban are still hunting down women who held public positions. Recently, the ex-MP Mursal Nabizada was killed. Can my noble friend the Minister tell me whether there is anything we can do to help these women—these human rights defenders—who are in such danger in the country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I join my noble friend, and I am sure all of us, in expressing abhorrence at these actions, which, literally, as my noble friend said, identify individuals. First and foremost, we must protect their identity. That is why, with some of the NGOs we are supporting on the ground, particularly some of the women’s charities, we are we working directly with them, but, in the detail we sometimes provide, at their behest and for their protection, we do not share those details. We are also working directly with women leaders. My noble friend Lady Hodgson and I met separately with some of the women leaders who were directly involved with the Government. I think that also provides a very important conduit to the kinds of priorities that are needed for woman representatives, be they human rights defenders or, indeed, ex-politicians within Afghanistan.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the UK is one of the biggest funders of the World Bank’s Afghan trust fund, which is the means by which the Taliban govern and are delivering services. What reassurance can the Minister provide that British funds are not being used directly by the Taliban for their discriminatory policies?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we have to be stringent in that. I agree with the noble Lord that we need to ensure that there is due diligence on the ground to ensure that that happens. I cannot guarantee that every single pound and dollar from that trust fund has not been utilised in some shape or form by the Taliban, but that funding is getting through. We are working with international partners on the ground. We can further enhance this by ensuring that the partners we are working with also have their verification processes. This is a strange conundrum: providing humanitarian support, health support and educational support is vital. Why should the people—the woman and girls of Afghanistan—suffer? We need to work through the barriers that the Taliban are putting in front of us.

[Lord Johnson of Marylebone (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend the Minister mentioned that the Taliban might be open to workarounds—

[Baroness D’Souza (CB)]

I thank the noble Lord. First, is the Taliban group that undertook negotiations in Doha still intact, does it still have any power, and are the Government in touch with it? Secondly, would the Minister say whether the FCDO is prepared to increase the number and amount of cash transfers to those most in need, given through the various NGOs, local and otherwise?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Baroness’s second point, I also reflect on the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Purvis. We must ensure that any money or support we provide, particularly when it comes to cash transfers, gets through to the people who need it. The systems and structures in Afghanistan at the moment are extremely fragile. We must look at innovative ways to ensure that we can get over some of these barriers. Technology provides an example, and perhaps that pre-empts the question of my noble friend Lord Johnson, who was going to come in. We need to look at innovative way of delivering both cash transfers and education as well. I think that may well be the way forward.

Ireland/Northern Ireland Protocol: Scrutiny of EU Legislative Proposals (European Affairs Committee Sub-Committee Report)

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Friday 20th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, first, I join others in both acknowledging and thanking the noble Lord, Lord Jay, and all the noble Lords on the protocol sub-committee for putting together this excellent report. I take on board the points made by my noble friend about the tabling of this debate. My noble friend the Chief Whip, who is also present on the Front Bench, has the challenge, as always, to ensure effective debates and scrutiny and I think today’s debate has underlined exactly that.

Again, I commend the noble Lord, Lord Jay, and the suggestion that he should be a part of the negotiating team was an interesting one, maybe a practical one. I commend him because when you have the likes of my noble friends Lord Hannan and Lord Cormack, as well as the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, and the noble Lord, Lord Dodds, all paying tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Jay, for the balance and perspective he brought in pulling together recommendations, it is no mean feat. I am sure we all commend him for that. Equally, I recognise the measured substance and tone of the noble Lord, Lord Ponsonby, in this debate. This debate can strike emotions, and rightly so. I also acknowledge—while the challenges are there for the Government of the day—the positive and constructive engagement with the noble Lord, and his contribution today underlines that; perhaps unlike other contributions, but there were some that were measured in staying on the actual debate in front of us. I also commend the noble Lord, Lord Liddle: when you are running away with your emotions, to stop yourself mid-flow is always a challenge, and I think we all noticed his restraint—hats off to him for that.

The committee’s report and today’s debate get to the very heart of the challenge and the problem with the current application of the Northern Ireland protocol. The noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, reminded us of this, as did other noble Lords. They recognise it has been a hindrance to trade between Northern Ireland and the rest of the United Kingdom. The noble Lord, Lord Bew, again underlined the key principle that there are two single markets to be considering here: the European single market and, what has been forgotten, the UK single market, which is at the heart of our union and our United Kingdom.

The committee and the debate recognise the democratic deficit—which many noble Lords referred to—in that certain EU laws apply to Northern Ireland on a dynamic basis, without consent from parliamentarians in Westminster or Stormont. They also recognise that the Northern Ireland protocol has become a roadblock to the formation of the Northern Ireland Assembly and, indeed, the Executive. I will come on to some of the more substantial points made by the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, about the importance of updates on negotiations. I will also pass on her request about engagement to my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary. Having known the Foreign Secretary for many years, I am sure that noble Lords will acknowledge that his approach to trying to resolve current issues in Northern Ireland, including the negotiations with the European Union, is reflective of his desire to achieve a practical and pragmatic outcome for all.

Since the committee published its report, the Government and the relevant committees in both Houses have reached an agreement on the Government’s ongoing EU scrutiny commitments. I join the voices, including that of the noble Lord, Lord Jay, in saying that the work that has gone on in achieving this consensus has led to a really positive outcome for all involved. I pay tribute to everyone. I also highlight the importance of this report in influencing the provisions of that agreement. Some of the report’s recommendations are directly reflected in the agreement, such as the automatic deposit of any new EU legislation which the EU has informed the UK of as being within the scope of the protocol. The agreement we reached with the scrutiny committees also encompasses that continued submission of Explanatory Memoranda on EU proposals which amend or replace existing proposals that fall under the scope of the protocol, including the EU legislation in Annex 1.

Finally, the report also made the important point that the material provided by the Government in Explanatory Memoranda should be of the highest quality, so that it can be supportive of effective scrutiny. I take that on board. As the noble Lord, Lord Jay, will know, officials from the departments are working very closely with the committee clerks on exactly this point. It is very much a live discussion, and we hope that that will reflect the views of the committee in the detail and the nature of what is required within Explanatory Memoranda. As the noble Lord, Lord Jay, will already be aware, the Cabinet Office Minister of State wrote to the Secretaries of State in 2021 to stress the importance of submitting well-crafted Explanatory Memoranda. But I take on board the points made in the report.

Turning to some of the questions raised in our debate, as I said, government officials are working with committee clerks to review and enhance the format of Explanatory Memoranda so that they better reflect the information that committees find helpful. As part of the agreement with the committees, there will be an interim review of arrangements in the summer and then a full review after two years or at the end of this Parliament, whichever is sooner. The Government look forward to working with the committees to see how these arrangements could be improved still further.

There were some practical suggestions made in the debate on the issue of divergence; I cannot answer the full detail of those today. The noble Lord, Lord Jay, raised an important point on this issue. The FCDO is working very closely with other government departments to analyse the EU law that applies in Northern Ireland. This involves identifying issues relating to regulatory divergence and, where necessary, raising them with the EU directly. While some of these discussions require discretion, the Government regularly update the relevant committees in both Houses through the publication of Explanatory Memoranda. I know that the noble Lord has also recently sent correspondence to my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary on this matter. I asked for an update on that, and I understand that a response is due to be sent in the very near future. I will follow up again on that point. These issues were also raised by my noble friend Lady Altmann and the noble Baroness, Lady Suttie, in their contributions.

The noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, also raised the important point of divergence and its impact. I reassure her that this is a cross-government endeavour; the FCDO is not alone. I have already alluded to my colleagues in the Northern Ireland Office, and I am delighted that my noble friend Lord Caine has joined us on the Front Bench for this important debate. He and I are working very closely on this. I will get on to negotiations in a moment, but I say first and foremost that we do all sit in one room—we convene these meetings together regularly, as was underlined by the visit my right honourable friends the Northern Ireland Secretary and the Foreign Secretary made to Northern Ireland. We are also working with other departments, including BEIS and the Cabinet Office, and linking in with the work on common frameworks and the UK Internal Market Act. My own officials work very closely with their partners across government, including on quality, ensuring that the issues on Explanatory Memoranda that have already been raised are directly addressed.

Turning to the negative impacts of the protocol, the noble Lord, Lord Murphy, described the situation as unique, and I agree with him. The issues with the way the protocol has been implemented are causing this debate and the problems in Northern Ireland, as we heard from many noble Lords, including my noble friends Lord Dodds and Lord Weir. Traders have to bear additional costs and bureaucracy. The noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria, highlighted the challenges that companies are facing; they want clarity. I know that my noble friend Lord Caine has been engaging directly with many companies and businesses over a number of months. I am sure we will return to some of these discussions and debates, but I assure noble Lords that their views matter, and that is why we are engaging and ensuring that they are factored into the discussions and negotiations we are having with the European Union. As I say, traders have to bear additional costs and bureaucracy and are missing out on some of the advantages being enjoyed in the rest of the United Kingdom. This is unacceptable.

The political cost is also unsustainably high. The Belfast/Good Friday agreement is based on respect between all communities and the consent of all communities, and we must keep that at the heart of our approach. The protocol itself is directly undermining that principle and preventing the restoration of the Northern Ireland Executive. Again, the noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, raised this point. That is why it is a top government priority to continue to work with our European partners to address these problems and put the protocol on a sustainable footing. This requires commitment, negotiation and movement from both sides, as my noble friend Lord Hannan noted.

Turning to the Government’s approach, my noble friend Lord Lamont, the noble Baroness, Lady Ritchie, and others raised the important issue of the democratic deficit. We have long held, since our Command Paper back in 2021, that this will need to be addressed if the protocol is to operate sustainably. This is one of the issues we are seeking to address directly in discussions with our EU counterparts. The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, made some very practical suggestions. It would be very easy for me to nod and agree with all of them, but he knows from his experience as a senior diplomat that I will have to take these back. Other noble Lords also raised some practical suggestions on this issue that I will certainly take back and share with colleagues, and indeed my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary. On his specific questions, I am not aware of any discussion about the EU office in Belfast, but I think there is merit in the process to ensure that the impact of EU legislation is fully understood. My noble friend Lord Caine has also heard that point very clearly.

Many noble Lords focused on negotiations, and rightly so. I recall hearing very clearly when the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill was in Committee about the importance of discussions with our partners, and I emphasise that point now. If I can digress on recent events—the noble Baroness, Lady Ludford, said that we have gone quite wide, but events do matter—events in Europe and the war on Ukraine have clearly demonstrated the importance of partnership working and approaching those who seek to disrupt democracy, cause division and sow discord, and that there is unity in action. It is in that spirit that I know my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary and European Commission Vice-President Maroš Šefčovič have had regular discussions. They last discussed these issues earlier this week, on Monday 16 January. I have been part of some of those meetings, and we will continue to engage on the practical issues. As I said in that debate, it is not just about atmospherics; there is cause and focus on substance as well. They have spoken regularly over recent months.

As the noble Lord, Lord Bew, reminded us—and I update the noble Lord, Lord Murphy, and my noble friend Lady Altmann—the Government reached an agreement with the EU on the way forward regarding the specific question of the EU’s access to UK IT systems. This issue was raised with us directly as a critical prerequisite to building trust and providing assurance, which provides a new basis for EU-UK discussions. The Foreign Secretary and Vice-President Šefčovič’s conversations on Monday also took stock of recent progress and scoped further work for potential solutions. These engagements and negotiations continue in a constructive and collaborative spirit at all levels—including technical discussions between officials, which take place very regularly.

The noble Baroness, Lady Hoey, raised the issue of discussions on the recent Defra statutory instrument. I emphasise to her, and indeed to all noble Lords, that this is required in any outcome, including the green and red lane model under the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill. I assure noble Lords, as I have already said, that the Secretary of State for Northern Ireland and the Foreign Secretary remain in close contact and work very closely together. I know through direct attendance of various meetings on this very issue that we convene these meetings across government.

I am conscious of time and responding to the important issues that were raised. Turning briefly to the important and practical points made by the noble Lord, Lord Hain—there he is; sorry, he caught me out there, as I was scanning the Benches—he speaks from great insight and experience. The Government have long held that the protocol is leading to a democratic deficit where EU law applies in Northern Ireland but with little meaningful consultation on that EU law. I can say to the noble Lord that the representatives of the Northern Ireland Executive already attend meetings at the joint consultative working group, and we value their important expertise. However, I take on board what he has said. There are always ways to improve existing processes and mechanisms, including through the discussions we are currently taking forward with the EU. I will certainly reflect on the practical suggestions he has put forward again today.

My noble friend Lord Lamont reminded us of the anniversary of the Belfast/Good Friday agreement. Preparations for the anniversary are currently under way. Attendance is being considered across government, including in the British embassy in Washington. Confirmed details on who will attend will be announced in due course and I will keep the House updated.

To conclude, I reiterate once again that, when it comes to practical working with our partners in the EU and the issue of the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill, the Government’s preference remains for a negotiated outcome. I hope that some of the details I have shared this morning underline both that commitment and the progress that is being made in the discussions. However, the Government introduced the Northern Ireland Protocol Bill to fix the practical problems created by the protocol in the event that this is not possible. I totally take on board the points raised by the noble Baroness, Lady O’Loan, and my noble friend Lord Dodds that these things need to work in the interests of all communities across Northern Ireland. Indeed, they need to work for the whole of the United Kingdom.

From a political and practical perspective, the current situation in Northern Ireland is not sustainable, as highlighted by the noble Lord, Lord Bilimoria. The protocol is inflicting increasing economic and political harm and undermining the very principles of consent that underpin the Belfast/Good Friday agreement, as we were reminded by several noble Lords, which must remain paramount in all negotiations and discussions. The Government are committed to fixing these issues so that the Executive can be formed. We are committed to ensuring that all businesses in Northern Ireland can prosper. We are committed to finding solutions through the negotiations with the European Union and ensuring that both single markets and all people across our United Kingdom can truly prosper.

Afghanistan: Ban on Women Aid Workers

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 19th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat an Answer to an Urgent Question in the other place on the ban on women aid workers in Afghanistan. The response is as follows:

“I would like to thank the honourable and gallant Member for raising this important issue and for pursuing this matter in such a determined and tenacious way. He served with distinction in Afghanistan and brings extraordinary knowledge and understanding to this matter.

Since August 2021, the Taliban has imposed a series of restrictions, effectively erasing women and girls from society. The ban on Afghan women from working for NGOs represents a further violation of their rights and freedoms, and it is unconscionable.

The decree will have devastating effects. More than 28 million people are expected to be in humanitarian need in 2023. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary and my noble friend Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon have been clearly and publicly stating that this ban will prevent millions of Afghans accessing life-saving aid. Around 30% to 40% of all staff in NGOs across Afghanistan are women. They are critical to humanitarian operations. They have access to populations that their male colleagues cannot reach, providing critical life-saving support to women and girls. According to the United Nations, approximately 47% of humanitarian organisations have currently either partially or completely suspended activities as a result of the edict.

Foreign Office officials are working with the UN, NGOs and other donor Governments to understand the impact of the ban and ensure a co-ordinated response. We support the UN’s pause on non-life-saving humanitarian operations, and we are working closely with NGOs to ensure that life-saving humanitarian assistance can continue wherever possible.

On 9 January, I discussed the matter with the UN Secretary-General in Geneva at the Pakistan pledging conference addressing the issue of the floods. On 6 January, my noble friend Lord Ahmad spoke to the UN Deputy Secretary-General before her visit to Afghanistan, and he is meeting Afghan women this morning. Our permanent representative in New York is engaging with other parts of the UN system to ensure that countries are unified in their condemnation of and response to the decree.

On 13 January, during a UN Security Council meeting on Afghanistan, the UK reiterated that women and girls in Afghanistan must remain high on the Security Council agenda. Our UK mission in Doha will continue to express our outrage about the impact of the ban on the humanitarian crisis and to lobby the Taliban across the system to reverse this appalling decision.”

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating that Statement. It is of course very welcome that the UN team, headed by the Deputy Secretary-General, Amina Mohammed, met Taliban leaders in Afghanistan about reversing the restrictions on women, including the ban on female aid workers. Today, Andrew Mitchell pointed out that they started by visiting Afghanistan’s neighbours, as well as the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation. What discussions have we had with Pakistan to underscore the importance of the international community speaking with one voice and taking a unified approach? I also note that the Minister met Afghan women this morning. I hope he can tell us in his response what the outcome of that discussion was.

On funding for NGOs providing humanitarian support, Andrew Mitchell said that the FCDO would take a pragmatic approach. However, I was not clear whether that included giving NGOs sufficient flexibility as a donor to enable them to keep their female staff on the payroll and cover other essential operating costs. I hope the Minister can reassure us on that point.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s question about Pakistan, we have been in direct engagement. I have had various meetings in the past months, including direct engagement during my last visit to Pakistan with Prime Minister Sharif. I have subsequently had various engagements with the Minister of State, Hina Rabbani Khar. I have also met Bilawal Bhutto, the Foreign Minister of Pakistan, when we discussed the issue of the abhorrent practices of the Taliban, including the latest ban.

We are engaging with other key partners. Indeed, the DSG’s visit is something that I have lobbied for and advocated for a very long time since the takeover of the Taliban for obvious reasons. She is articulate, educated and the second-highest officer within the multilateral system. She is also Muslim and wears the hijab, so the narrative of the Taliban that somehow Muslim women cannot be empowered is absolutely negated in her own person. I will be meeting her on Monday and I will share with noble Lords the discussions that she has had. I am not expecting there to be great changes. I know she also visited the new UN special representative to Afghanistan, who is also a woman from the near neighbourhood, and the head of UN Women, which sends a very strong message to the Taliban in this respect.

On the specific issue of NGOs, of course we very much favour them. We are working with the UN and other agencies and partners, including the ICRC. There are two elements to this. There are some agencies, including the World Food Programme, that, following the ban on women, face a very difficult decision about whether to keep those vital food supplies going. That has always been the case; notwithstanding the challenges that we face in Afghanistan, we continue to provide humanitarian support irrespective of this abhorrent practice. I share noble Lords’ concern that we are hearing speculation, albeit reasonably grounded, that international NGOs are being looked at too, which would pose an extra challenge. More importantly, it would mean further and greater suffering for the Afghan people.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I welcome what the Minister just said and I agree with him. The visuals of the UN visit spoke very powerfully of the very retrograde step that the Taliban is taking. I hope that the UN leadership will be able to have some influence.

I declare that I am the chair of the UK board of one of these INGO charities: Search for Common Ground is a peacebuilding charity operating within Afghanistan with a female leader. It has alerted me to something that is also telling. What happened just within the last couple of days was that over 100 brave women gathered together in freezing Kabul to bring together and distribute warm clothes to male workers. The impact that had on me was very moving. It shows the reality of the venality of what the Taliban is doing, but also how the women of Afghanistan are still inspiring.

I will ask the Minister two specific questions. The first builds on a question which I asked him last week about the World Bank trust fund. The UK is supporting the World Bank’s work; I too support it, but it is increasingly difficult to justify support through mechanisms which provide direct funding for Taliban services when it now seeks to exclude half of the delivery vehicles for it—those delivered through women. What mechanisms are there in place in the World Bank trust fund, and with UK support, to ensure that we are not supporting the Taliban continuing the discrimination against women? Secondly, what is the UK doing to secure a public statement from our Gulf allies that this act of the Taliban is unacceptable, not just to the UK but to all regional partners and Gulf allies, and to the Islamic world?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s first point, we are looking at additional mechanisms and I share his concern. I am aware of the INGO that he mentioned. This morning’s meeting with the women leaders involved INGOs, NGOs and, of course, former political leaders in Afghanistan—all women. It was a very enlightening insight into specific steps that we should be taking, and that will continue to be our process. Since the Taliban takeover, I have consistently said that we will be informed by our work with key partners, including on humanitarian aid. We want to identify mechanisms, because the current issues we have with aid distribution are replicated by the concerns of other agencies, as well as other international partners.

On how we will move forward with the Islamic world, we are working on that. I am engaging directly with the OIC’s special representative, and a number of countries around the Gulf have condemned the actions. They have also made visits to Afghanistan. I will be travelling to the Gulf region in the middle of February and will look to engage with a number of Gulf partners on other issues, but, importantly, on Afghanistan as well.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, first, I offer the Minister my thanks and congratulations on being active in helping the United Nations to take the initiative that it has by sending the Deputy Secretary-General and some of her colleagues to Kabul. It must be the right thing to do, and I hope the Minister will say that they will have our unstinting support in all the efforts they are making. Secondly, he was perhaps as surprised as I was to see some amity breaking out in the Security Council in recent discussion of what has been going on in Afghanistan, with apparent unanimity in criticising some of the actions taken by the regime there. Does he think that that amity and unity in the Security Council has any development potential in the future?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I always welcome people coming together to try to work out solutions—and I say “one can only hope” in answer to the noble Lord’s second question.

On his other question, we will continue to work on our observation. I thank the noble Lord for his kind remarks. It is important that we strengthen the working of the United Nations. Often it has the access that other countries will not have. It has the structures that provide the provisions that other countries working individually will not have.

Taking up the point of the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, I assure noble Lords that we are working with the UN, the Islamic world and near neighbours. The challenge remains the Taliban perspective and I am going to be very candid. They believe that every challenge and test, erroneously and rather perversely, is an added challenge from God. That will be their interpretation. That is why we need the Islamic world to speak. I have said to them quite directly, as a direct challenge, that women’s rights were not suppressed by the religion of Islam; they were enhanced. If they claim to follow the Prophet Muhammad, they should look at his personal example. Look at who was the first person to accept the religion. He was working for someone. That person was a woman.

Execution of Alireza Akbari

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 18th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I share the sympathies the noble Lord extended to the family of Alireza Akbari. As the Statement from the Foreign Secretary indicated, the family welcomed the support from the Foreign Office. I also welcome the Foreign Secretary’s response: there should be no impunity for those who have been responsible for both human rights abuses within Iran and the mistreatment of British dual nationals.

Can the Minister state how many dual nationals there are in Iran? Can we guarantee consular access for them? Are there routes for their safe exit from Iran if they need to leave, as well as for those who are vulnerable to the human rights abuses of the regime? On a number of occasions, I have asked for preparations to be made for such safe and legal routes, primarily for vulnerable women who have been persecuted and oppressed by the Iranian regime to an alarming degree.

A Norwegian NGO has suggested that 481 people have been killed by the Iranian regime directly, including 64 children and 35 women. Will the Government work hand in hand with our EU and other allies to ensure that new suites of sanctions—both targeted and general —on the regime are fully co-ordinated so that there are no gaps in their operation?

I have also raised concerns that while we have seen some progress in the commissioning and establishment of an inquiry to investigate the abuses of the Iranian regime, unfortunately, some of our Gulf allies did not support that route. What work are the Government doing with our friends and allies in the Gulf to ensure that even if the UK, the US and the EU have a joint position, it is not undermined by them?

Can the Minister clarify the position of the Government on the proscription of the IRGC? There is absolute merit in its proscription. However, unlike with non-governmental organisations, the proscription of a government organisation will inevitably bring about other consequences, especially if there are repercussions on dual nationals, or indeed on UK interests. Of course, there would be an impact on UK relations with Iraq and neighbouring countries which have predominantly Shia populations and which the IRGC is operating within.

Greater information is usually provided on proscriptions; if we do see the proscription, I hope we can have a full debate in the Chamber on not just the statutory instrument but the UK’s relations with Iran, which are fundamental, given the gross abuses of human rights of that regime.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I join the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Purvis, in condemning unequivocally—as all did when this Statement was debated in the other place—the abhorrent practice of using executions as a means to suppress communities and citizens, as well, of course, as the abhorrent actions last weekend, which bring us to this very sad occasion today. Of course, our thoughts and prayers are with the family.

I assure noble Lords that we worked to the last hour on this. I can say that with some conviction, because while I was abroad, I called directly the highest diplomat of the Iranian Government here in London to again implore him and to make clear in the strongest terms that, while we deplore every execution in Iran, this was a very different case, because it involved a dual national who had lived in Britain for a number of years. Indeed, members of his family are here in the United Kingdom.

I can share with noble Lords that we continue to work very closely with the family. Indeed, any direct engagement we have had with the Iranian authorities and the Iranian regime has been based on the direct co-operation of and requests from this family, just as we have acted previously at the request of other families.

The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, asked about the number of dual nationals in Iran. While there is no requirement to register, some will no doubt make themselves known to us as events evolve. The noble Lord will be aware that our excellent ambassador was called back to London and has been here this week for consultations. It was a temporary callback to understand fully the implications of the situation on the ground and to address certain key issues. I met with our ambassador to Tehran earlier today and yesterday to consider all options.

On the point the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, raised concerning co-operation, we are working very closely with our European allies and friends. Our ambassadors are engaging in a very co-ordinated fashion in Tehran; that will continue, and it includes engagement on sanctions. Noble Lords will be aware that we immediately took action to sanction Iran’s prosecutor general, Mohammad Jafar Montazeri, who is one of the most powerful figures in Iran’s judiciary and is responsible for Iran’s unacceptable use of the death penalty. On his watch, we have seen the number of death penalties increase, including this current tragic case.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked about the United States and our strong partnership and work. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has been in Washington and, as part of a broad range of discussions on our priorities, will undoubtedly discuss the situation in Iran regarding this tragic case.

We welcome the fact that many countries—10, as well as all the countries of the European Union—have condemned the execution. We are working on sanctions and whatever further levers need to be used. As my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary said, we are working in co-ordination, and we are also looking at all the options available to us.

It is not the first time we have talked about proscribing the IRGC in your Lordships’ House. As the Foreign Secretary said yesterday, the steps we have taken do not preclude further action. We are working in a very co-ordinated fashion with all colleagues across His Majesty’s Government, and we will continue to do so. I am fully aware of the strength of sentiment on the issue of proscription, and the Government are not ignoring that. I assure noble Lords that we are keeping all options under review, including further sanctions and other actions we could take, and that everything we do will be done in a co-ordinated fashion.

These condemnations matter to the Iranian regime; you see it in its reaction, as I have through direct engagement. However, it is important that we remain persistent and consistent in keeping the focus on the appalling and abhorrent situation in Iran.

We are working very closely with the family, and I was shocked to learn about the accessibility issues for members of the deceased’s extended family in retrieving his body. They were told different things: that the execution may have taken place at a different time, and that the body of the deceased had already been taken to a cemetery and buried. One can only imagine the horror of not only having to deal with the execution, but the shock of then finding that even the last rites could not be guaranteed.

My direct challenge to the Iranian Government is this. Often, they say that in certain countries the death penalty is permitted under their own laws and jurisprudence. Even if we accept that for a moment, under what law or moral principle have the Iranian Government discarded the rites which are guaranteed by every faith and community to the deceased? Clearly, that has not happened, which adds to the abhorrence of this barbaric attack.

The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, pointed out the number of civilians who have died, which is getting closer to 500. Tragically, that includes 64 children, which is a cause for further abhorrence. Some 18,000 Iranian citizens have been arrested, yet the protests continue. We are working with our other Gulf partners. I note what the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, says; as the Minister for the Middle East, I am acutely aware of the situation and I can assure him of my good offices in raising these issues consistently to ensure that we have the widest possible condemnation. Equally, however, we support the civilians of Iran, who have no hand in this tragic situation. It is important that they are able to hear that we stand with them.

The noble Lord asked about BBC Persian. Again, we work closely to ensure that we safeguard all British interests when it comes to Iran. The services provided are essential. A smaller number of people are now reliant on the radio service; nevertheless, while decisions are being taken, I recognise totally the importance of communication at this extremely challenging time.

I further assure all noble Lords, particularly the Front-Benchers, that as the situation evolves—it is quite dynamic, even over the last 48 hours—I will seek to update them on events. I will of course reach out to both noble Lords to update them on further issues as they arise, and I will return to the House as the situation evolves.

The clear message has been given to the Iranian regime that, while we have our differences, different perspectives and disagreements in this House and the other place—and indeed in the challenges we pose to each other across the country—when it comes to abhorrent issues such as this, we are at one. That is an important message to communicate.

[Lord Lamont of Lerwick (Con)]

My Lords, I draw the House’s attention to my entry in the register of interests. Is my noble friend aware that it is almost impossible to find words strong enough to condemn this outrage—this judicial killing? Is he also aware that the Iranian regime has suggested that Sir Richard Dalton, our former ambassador in Tehran, was the British key point of contact with Mr Akbari? When I spoke to Sir Richard 48 hours ago, he told me that to the very best of his knowledge, he has never met Mr Akbari in his life, either here in London or in Tehran. Is this not just yet another lie by the Iranian regime, designed to impress on the Iranian people the myth that somehow, their problems are caused by foreigners rather than by their own brutal incompetence?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I totally agree with my noble friend and I could not express my abhorrence of this in clearer terms than those he has outlined. What is becoming increasingly clear is that these abhorrent executions take place on trumped-up charges, often relating to people who are perhaps seeking through their own good will to provide hope for Iran and to bring some semblance of normality to the future of Iranian communities and the Iranian people. Shockingly, this goes from bad to worse.

If I may, I missed a point that I wanted to raise with the noble Lord, Lord Collins, about activities here in the UK. I know of a particular centre in Maida Vale into which the Charity Commission is working on an inquiry. We are working closely with the Home Office and across government on all these issues to ensure that, as I said, all the levers that we have in our hands are exercised effectively.

[Baroness Coussins (CB)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Collins, referred to the vulnerability of BBC Persian staff. What can be, and is being, done to support the family members of those staff, who have also been targeted with threats and violence—in particular, the family members of BBC staff who are London-based and, by definition, cannot offer their family members in Iran any personal or direct support?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, there are those who are based here in the UK and receive threats, including those who work for British interests and are receiving threats. When I say “British interests”, I mean British companies such as BBC Persian, in terms of the important work that it does on the ground in providing communication. Although the service is operationally and editorially independent, the support that we give it is important. We are providing both that support and the information that is needed.

Of course, as the noble Baroness pointed out, the threat goes much wider than Iran itself. We have an unprecedented situation—it is certainly unprecedented in my time in Parliament—where Members of both Houses have had to be directly advised about the nature of a threat from a foreign state actor, in this case Iran. That puts into context the gravity of the situation and the actions that the regime may resort to in order to cause further disruption, challenge and misery not just to its own citizens but elsewhere. We are clear in our stance on this, which is why it is important that we work closely with all departments across government and equally important that we work closely with our international partners as well.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, the violent repression of protests and the callous execution of Alireza Akbari expose further the barbarism of a regime that has no regard for human rights or the international rules-based order. Given this, what are the prospects of getting the JCPOA back on track? If the FCDO believes the JCPOA to be irretrievable, what alternative steps will the Government and our allies take to ensure that Iran cannot develop a nuclear weapon, which would only give the worst elements of this regime even greater latitude in this and many other regards?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord speaks with incredible experience of and insight into the work going on in defence and the JCPOA. Frankly, Iran’s escalation of its nuclear activities threatens not just stability in the region. Even putting the JCPOA aside, we have seen the steps that it is increasingly taking—for example, the explicit and direct support that it has extended to Russia in supporting UAVs, which have then been used in Ukraine—which demonstrate Iran’s intention not just to cause the suppression of its own citizens and cause instability in the region but to cause and fuel division and conflict further afield. The actions that it has taken recently put any kind of diplomatic solution highly at risk. We supported the JCPOA at a time when the previous US Administration pulled back because, even with all its faults, there was no other deal on the table. Last year, on two occasions, there was a big opportunity for Iran to sign the deal, but it did not do so. Recent actions make this much more difficult, but we are clear, which is why I stress the importance of working with our international partners, that we must do all that we can to prevent Iran from ever attaining a nuclear weapon.

[Lord Polak (Con)]

My Lords, I acknowledge the leadership of my noble friend the Minister on this issue. Through him, since he just mentioned them, I thank the security services for the advice that they have given me. Failure to deliver IRGC proscription will weaken Britain’s standing and signal a lack of political resolve. Can we really afford to be left out of the growing consensus among western capitals that the IRGC be held accountable for its appalling behaviour? Can my noble friend help me and describe what else the Iranian regime needs to do for us to take the right action and proscribe the IRGC?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend’s security and that of every Member of your Lordships’ House and the other place remains extremely important. I cannot stress enough the importance of immediately letting the authorities know if any Member of either place or further afield feels threatened. As a Minister, I sometimes receive emails that—how can I put it?—are not most favourably disposed to the work that I am doing or what I have said. Nevertheless, there is a tendency to say that this is the normal course of business. I cannot stress enough the importance of ensuring that those threats are communicated. We have an incredible team within Parliament who can advise appropriately.

We have already sanctioned the IRGC and its many officials through our sanctions regime in its entirety. However, the separate list of proscribed terrorist organisations is kept under constant review. I cannot go any further on this now, but I reassure my noble friend that the strength of the sentiments that we have heard in most of the contributions clearly indicates the will of your Lordships’ House.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I add to the condolences and sympathy that others, including the Minister, have expressed to the family of Alireza Akbari and thank the Minister for the tone that he has struck in delivering the Statement and answering questions this afternoon.

Given the role of Iran in executing British and many of their own citizens, in torturing and in oppressing its own courageous people, especially women, and in sanctioning United Kingdom parliamentarians, I pursue the point made by the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Polak, as well as many others, and urge the Minister to convey back to his Secretary of State the widespread opinion in your Lordships’ House that the IRGC should be designated as a terrorist organisation. What must happen before that occurs? What must happen before the Iranian ambassador is expelled from this country?

Why have we not stopped the cuts to the BBC Persian service, as raised by the noble Lord, Lord Collins? I repeated many of the sentiments and remarks about this in a debate that we had in your Lordships’ House quite recently on the BBC World Service. As recently as today, I have been told that it will lose at least 2 million of its audience in Iran as a result of the cuts to the radio services to Iran. At this time, that is quite unbelievable. Will the noble Lord not call a meeting with Tim Davie of the BBC, bring people together and ensure that the decision is reversed?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s first point, as I have already stated, the strength of views on the issue of proscription is very clear and I will take those feelings back to my right honourable friend. I assure all noble Lords that, on every element of the Iranian regime that is acting in this very oppressive manner to its own people and against dual nationals, the trajectory is clear to us. While the protests continue, we have seen ever-increasing suppression and, worse still, executions taking place. On the issue of the BBC, I commend the noble Lord for his persistence and, while we remain fully supportive, I am aware of the challenges that the BBC has faced and the operational decisions that it has made. Sometimes, circumstances mean that it is good to review things and I will discuss the suggestion made by the noble Lord with officials.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, is not the most sinister element of this matter that Mr Akbari was encouraged to return by a so-called friend? We also remember that Mrs Ratcliffe was on holiday. That makes it clear that any person with joint citizenship is at risk from elements in Iran who are prepared to do anything that they believe to be either in their narrow interests as part of the Government or on behalf of the Government as a whole. Do we know or are our Government aware of how many people have joint citizenship with Iran? If these people have not already realised the risk that they run, would it be possible to provide them with additional information to encourage them to ensure that they do not innocently put themselves at risk, as happened in both the case that we are discussing and that of Mrs Ratcliffe?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I said to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, it is not normal practice when nationals go to a particular country to make their dual nationality known, and certain dual nationals who are currently resident in Iran may not have made that known. The risks to any dual national are now abundantly clear. The noble Lord talked of Alireza Akbari’s return and, as I said, many who have a particular heritage, who were born in a particular country or who have an association with a particular nation, may feel that there is perhaps a positive role that they can play in changing the trajectory of travel of that country. I am sure there are many noble-intentioned British people with Iranian heritage who think exactly that.

Yet it is very clear that the regime—forget respecting or valuing that—has no intention whatever of leveraging that opportunity to bring itself back to a form of respect from the international community. I can tell the noble Lord that all matters were discussed with our ambassador, including welfare, because the first important duty of any Government or embassy is the welfare of its citizens. Anyone who is a dual national, as Mr Akbari was, is regarded as a British national.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, I endorse everything that the noble Lord, Lord Alton, and many others said. I welcome the tone of my noble friend’s replies and we are all very much in debt for the responsible way in which he approaches his very onerous duties. But this is an evil regime, presiding over good people in a beautiful country. We must surely be able to do something beyond what we have already done, which has had very little effect, to show that this is a pariah state that has no place within the United Nations. Should we not begin by severing diplomatic relations ourselves?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his kind remarks but, on the actions we have taken, even in the last three months an additional 40 individuals or organisations have been directly sanctioned by the United Kingdom Government. As I alluded to earlier, in reply to the noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Purvis, we do this in conjunction with our key partners and allies, including the European Union, the United States, Canada and others.

My noble friend also raised the issue of what more can be done. While we have been acting decisively—about 300 individuals and organisations have now been sanctioned—we have also acted at the United Nations. I thank my noble friend Lord Polak for his comments on the UN Commission on the Status of Women; talk about a total and utter contradiction of representation to have Iran sitting on the CSW. We acted with our American partners and this demonstrated to me—here I commend your Lordships’ House—that, although it is sometimes not recognised—that issues raised here have a direct consequence on British policy and, more importantly, on the actions we take. That is one such example of recent action we have taken to send a very strong message to Iran that its actions will not be tolerated and, equally and importantly, working in conjunction with the international community.

[Lord Ricketts (CB)]

My Lords, on the issue of what practically can be done, is there no way of having further sanctions on Iran to constrain its capacity to build these kamikaze drones, which have been supplied to Russia and which Russia has been using to kill thousands of civilians? Might the British Government take the initiative in that area and bring the international community together to constrain this traffic in terror?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord has great insight on these matters and I agree with him. We are looking at how we can further constrain Iran’s ability to provide such ammunition to countries such as Russia, including through stopping of some of the supply chains. But the noble Lord will know from his own experience that the destabilising effect of Iran—particularly on situations of conflict such as Yemen, where the supply of weapons continues—continues to this day, although through direct co-operation we have had many interventions.

[Lord Pickles (Con)]

My Lords, we all appreciate the very robust response that my noble friend has given, and the measured way in which he has approached this problem. I think we understand the importance of the safety of our staff in Tehran, and also the importance of keeping some kind of message open. Nevertheless, given that they are murdering girls for inappropriately wearing or not wearing a scarf, are judicially murdering protesters who in any other country might face a fine at worst, are supplying drones, as we have just heard, to Russia to affect Ukraine, and now have just hanged a British citizen, what more do they need to do for us to proscribe the Iranian Revolutionary Guard cadre? Surely, given that they have not adhered to the nuclear deal, there must now be a strong case for us to initiate snapback sanctions?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I again hear what my noble friend says very clearly. He mentioned snapback sanctions: of course, in the light of the long co-operation we have seen with the JCPOA, I cannot go into further details, but, as my right honourable friend said—and I stand by this— we are in no way saying that the actions that we have taken will be the last that we will take in the current situation against Iran.

[Lord Kerr of Kinlochard (CB)]

I congratulate the Minister on the tone and content of his remarks. I think that he has encapsulated very well the feelings of the whole House: the revulsion of the House at this action in Tehran. I would, however, counsel him against the advice given by the noble Lord, Lord Cormack: it is important to retain diplomatic relations with one’s foes, perhaps even more important than retaining them with one’s friends. Such influence as we have may be limited, but if we withdraw our embassy, we bring such influence to an end and we betray our friends in the country in question.

I have, however, one question for the Minister. If an Iranian citizen, not a dual national, feeling under threat from the regime and having connections to this country, were to ask me how he could seek asylum and sanctuary here, what advice should I give? What legal and safe route is available to him? I know of none.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, has great insight and, of course, anyone who has been involved with diplomacy will know that quite often there are occasions when you are sitting across the table from people whose views, policies and perhaps their own regime or Government you find pretty unpalatable. There are many occasions when I have sat and faced the irony of the Human Rights Council, where we have countries who clamour for membership and election to the council, but where one quick reflection on their human rights record would put it in total contradiction. The noble Lord, again, offers wise advice.

On the issue of safe routes et cetera, while it is very much the remit of the Home Office, the important thing is that the United Kingdom—certainly, this is something that I have always felt passionate about—has, throughout Governments of whatever political colour over many years, been a sanctuary for those seeking asylum and escaping the brutality of regimes around the world, and has provided support. That has to be at the core of who and what we are. In terms of the specifics of the situation that has arisen with Iran, I am sure that the noble Lord will respect that I cannot given chapter and verse here, but I note very carefully what he has suggested and, if there is more detail I can provide to him, I will certainly seek to do so.

Nagorno-Karabakh

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord McInnes of Kilwinning]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what representations they have made to the government of Azerbaijan regarding the blocking of the Lachin Corridor between Armenia and Artsakh/Nagorno-Karabakh, and the consequences for the humanitarian situation in that region.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, officials, including our ambassador in Baku, have engaged with the highest levels of the Azerbaijani Government, including the presidential Administration, to urge the immediate reopening of the Lachin corridor. At the Organization for Security and Co-operation in Europe—including this morning—and at the United Nations Security Council, we have been categorically clear that the continued closure of the corridor risks a significant humanitarian crisis in the region, and access must be restored.

[Lord McInnes of Kilwinning (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for his Answer. What assessment have His Majesty’s Government made of the humanitarian effect of the blockade? In addition, in relation to Article II(c) of the genocide convention,

“Deliberately inflicting on the group conditions of life calculated to bring about its physical destruction in whole or in part”,


what assessment has been made of the blockade?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I reassure my noble friend that the United Kingdom Government take their commitments under the genocide convention seriously. Where there is evidence that thresholds have been met, we will take appropriate action. I am aware that during and after the 2020 conflict, there were widespread reports of atrocities. In September 2022, there was widespread media reporting of crimes that may amount to grave breaches of the Geneva convention. The UK Government have raised our concerns directly with the Azerbaijani Government and will continue to do so. On the humanitarian point, we are working closely with partners. Indeed, this morning again I asked for access, which is currently being attained by various organisations, including the ICRC. We will follow up with direct conversations in Geneva as well.

[Baroness Cox (CB)]

My Lords, my small charity, the Humanitarian Aid Relief Trust, supports a rehabilitation centre in Karabakh. I recently spoke to the director, who said that the situation is dire: the shops are empty and there are shortages of food, medical supplies, diapers—causing great problems for people with incontinence—and fuel for transporting patients. Schools are closing because there is no food, and Azerbaijan has cut off gas, internet supply and power, causing a risk of vulnerable people dying from hypothermia. Families cannot travel, so hundreds of children are separated from their parents. The situation is so serious that some fear genocide. I therefore ask the Minister: how long will the UK Government continue to allow Azerbaijan to inflict such horrendous suffering? Will they fulfil those genocide prevention responsibilities by working with the UN Security Council to require the immediate lifting of the blockade and/or launching humanitarian aid airlifts?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I commend the noble Baroness for her continued campaign in this regard. I am aware that both the noble Baroness and the noble Lord, Lord Alton, have written recently about this situation, particularly concerning the institutions which the noble Baroness mentioned, such as schools. As I have alluded to already, we are working closely with international agencies, including the ICRC, to get their direct impact assessment of the closure. The Government will remain a significant donor in this respect. I have also alluded to the importance we attach to our obligations and commitments under the genocide convention. We will continue to work closely with our UN partners at the Security Council, as we did in December.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, what are the Government doing to highlight the ambiguous role played by the 2,000 Russian peacekeeping forces in the region? How are they ensuring that, at the same time, Baku does not use the presence of those forces to conceal its own intentions and actions in respect of the closure of the corridor?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, of course we are aware of the presence of regional actors, including Russia, as the noble Lord has articulated. Following Russia’s invasion of Ukraine, we have currently suspended all engagement with the Russian authorities, except on a very limited number of issues. Their continued presence should be to keep the peace, as was intended, and not to exacerbate the situation. However, I regret that I do not believe that to be the case. We will continue to work using all good offices, particularly our direct contacts. Indeed, I met with the Armenian Foreign Minister in December to reassure him of our good offices in trying to reach a direct resolution to this long-standing dispute and conflict.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, does not the present situation with this whole miserable, unending war, which has been going on since 1988, indicate how possibly unwise or unfortunate the Armenians were to put their trust in Russia? Russia’s influence has weakened, and it is distracted by losing the battle in Ukraine. That has made it a feeble supporter in securing the position of Armenian citizens in Nagorno-Karabakh.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, in the light of the prevailing situation in Russia’s war on Ukraine, I am sure that many countries are now reconsidering their alliances with Russia and the support that they gain from it. One hopes that we will see greater stability across the European continent and in other conflicts around the world. There is a simple solution. Russia can step up to the mark, fulfil its international obligations and act as a peacemaker in conflicts around the world rather than making them worse.

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

My Lords, it is clear that this situation needs to be resolved urgently, not least to try to ensure a long-term settlement between Azerbaijan and Armenia. What steps are the Government taking to promote negotiations which will both protect the territorial integrity of Azerbaijan and the rights of the Armenian citizens within Karabakh? Can the Government indicate that they are taking active measures to try to ensure a peace settlement and a long-term resolution, rather than see this long-standing conflict flare up again and again?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord. First and foremost, we do not believe that there can be a military settlement to this particular conflict—I am sure that the noble Lord agrees with me. It has to be negotiated. That is why the UK Government are supporting the efforts of the OSCE—there was a meeting there this morning—the EU and other partners to secure stability and security for the region. As I have alluded to already, we are engaging directly with both the Azerbaijanis and the Armenians. Indeed, my colleague, my honourable friend the Minister for Europe, will be seeking meetings either this week or next with the Foreign Ministers of both countries.

[Lord Darzi of Denham (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, as we have heard, the ongoing blockade of the Lachin corridor is causing a humanitarian crisis which has been widely condemned but to no discernible effect. Food is being rationed in Nagorno-Karabakh, schools are closed because of shortages and families have been separated. Does the Minister agree that it is time for the international community and the Government to step up the pressure on Azerbaijan by imposing sanctions over and above existing embargoes against the supply of arms?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome the noble Lord’s deep insight into this particular situation. I agree with him on the importance of seeking resolution and working with international partners. I have spoken in previous responses about the importance of negotiation. Conflict is not the solution. We will exercise sanctions across the board where we feel they will have a direct impact on a particular country, organisation or individual, but I cannot speculate as to any future sanctions which we may adopt.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister will have seen what Samantha Power of USAID has said about the implications of the blocking of the Lachin corridor, where she said a “humanitarian catastrophe” was unfolding. What discussions are we having with Samantha Power and our allies to ensure that medicine, food and energy, as described by my noble friend Lady Cox, are reaching the 130,000 Armenians who are blocked off in Nagorno-Karabakh? Given the answer that the Minister gave me in December to a Question about the joint analysis of conflict and stability—the JACS assessment—by his own department, which was completed in early 2022, will he agree to place a copy of that assessment in the Library of your Lordships’ House so that we can know whether the Government really are honouring the obligations under the genocide convention that he referred to in answer to the Question from his noble friend Lord McInnes?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The noble Lord will know, on the opinion that he referred to—the JACS—that it is not government policy; we do not put that in the public domain. However, I can say to the noble Lord, as I have said to him during other debates and Questions that we have had on this issue, that I can offer him a meeting, including with our officials, to share the assessment of the situation. On his earlier point about working with the United States and other partners, we are looking for a direct response from the ICRC. Again, I have asked our ambassador in Geneva to engage directly with the ICRC to give a full assessment, and I shall provide further details to the noble Lord and place a copy of that letter in the Library.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, can I push the Minister a bit more on Russian involvement, particularly on its so-called peacekeeping role? He mentioned the fact that he is making clear the cost of alliances with Russia. Can he tell us a bit more about how we are working with our allies to expose its role, particularly with regard to the corridor that we have been discussing?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, Russia is doing a pretty good job of exposing its lack of activity to bring the two sides together. What is demonstrably clear to all partners, as well as to others who have aligned themselves with Russia within the European or the global context, is that Russia is not a reliable partner. It is not seeking peace; it was there to provide stability and security but its action in Ukraine has demonstrably shown what its intention is. However, we believe that there is a solution to be found. There are existing structures such as the OSCE and the UN and with our partners in the EU so that we can collaborate and work together to ensure, first and foremost, as we heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Cox, and the noble Lord, Lord Alton, that humanitarian access is increased, as it needs to be—and that we find a long-standing solution to this conflict, which has gone on for far too long.

United Nations Security Council

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 17th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns (Con)]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and, in so doing, remind the House of my unpaid interest as chair of the United Nations Association of Great Britain and Northern Ireland.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom Government support UN Security Council reform. We support an expansion in the council membership, with new permanent seats for India, Germany, Japan and Brazil, and permanent African representation. We support the expansion of the non-permanent membership to take the total membership to the mid-20s. We also support responsible use of the veto. We participate in regular discussions on UN Security Council reform at the UN, including through the General Assembly-mandated intergovernmental negotiations on this very issue.

[Baroness Anelay of St Johns (Con)]

My Lords, on this very date 77 years ago, the United Nations Security Council met for the first time, here in London. There has been much talk of reform and I very much welcome my noble friend’s words today, but nothing much seems to happen on reform of the powers and the membership. It is a different world from 77 years ago. My noble friend referred to the intergovernmental negotiations. What text-based information have we already tabled, in the light of our ambassador to the UN having said in November that this would be the best way of moving forward, getting away from making promises and good statements, and getting the job done? When my noble friend was there in December, and when my honourable friend Minister Rutley was there just last week, what discussions did they have on this matter of a text-based way forward?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend speaks from experience and with insight and expertise. She is right about having text-based discussions, but she will also be aware of the challenges of any talk of UN security reform when presented. When I was at the UN in December, we did not engage specifically on this issue. We have a long-standing commitment to reform, but there are challenges, not least posed by the current permanent five members, which prevent progressive reforms taking place at pace. However, there is a real recognition that the extension of the veto challenge by the General Assembly and our respect for the views of the General Assembly are a reflection of a move in the right direction.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that the prospects for reform, however desirable that may be, are near hopeless? From time to time, and with deep regret, Governments of which I was a member had to act without the approval of the Security Council, as in the case of Kosovo, to avoid a humanitarian disaster, or nothing would have happened.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble and learned Lord: there are challenges posed, and I have already alluded to them. The use of the veto often prevents specific action being taken. That is why the United Kingdom is one of the longest-standing members not exercising the veto—exercising that really was a matter of last resort. Of course, the challenge remains to ensure that the veto is used sensitively, but sometimes there are occasions where we need to act decisively to prevent humanitarian disasters taking place.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, on the subject of the veto, does the Minister recall that, in 2013, France came forward with a proposal not to abolish but to pragmatically reform the power of veto so that it could not be used where there were allegations of crimes against humanity, the use of genocide or war crimes? That was in the wake of what had happened in Syria. Is not his noble friend Lady Anelay therefore right that we need to revisit some of these questions, not least in the aftermath of war crimes in Ukraine, and what has happened in Tigray, and in Xinjiang to Uighur Muslims? Use of the veto to prevent investigation upholding the genocide convention or the Rome statute is one of the most shameful things and brings the Security Council into disrepute. Should we not be laying resolutions along with the French in the General Assembly and the Human Rights Council, at least paving the way for this kind of practical reform?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I said to my noble friend, I agree that it is important that we see reform. That is why, for example, the United Kingdom has supported the accountability mechanism that was put forward, known as the Liechtenstein initiative, which is all about ensuring that, when the veto is exercised, there is accountability for the country that has done so. This now enables the General Assembly to hold vetoing members to account. I would add, once again, that the challenge and tragedy is, as we have seen in recent events in Ukraine, that the egregious abuse of that vetoing right is very much evident and it has been used extensively by Russia.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I support the Minister’s comments seeking a permanent place on the Security Council for an African nation. That now echoes the Biden Administration’s sub-Saharan Africa strategy and the position of the Canadian Liberal Government, but it should go further, seeking much stronger representation of African nations on the World Bank, the IMF and all the UN agencies. Following the Question asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Anelay, what is the Government’s estimate of a timeframe for UN Security Council reform when Africa is likely to see permanent representation? Western powers simply stating their desire without a road map for reform arguably does more damage than staying silent.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord: we have seen emerging powers around the world. As my noble friend said in her supplementary question, the world has changed from the time when the UN Security Council was first established and from the time it was reformed and extended. The current membership reflects what happened post the Second World War. The issue of Africa and Africa’s representation is very clear. We welcome the fact that we have seen an increasing number of individuals from African countries emerging to senior leadership positions within the United Nations, but the real challenge is that the people who will ultimately give the green light to fundamental reform of the UN Security Council are its permanent members. At the moment, the challenge is not just reform; it is far more general than that, and specific to many of the conflicts we are facing. I cannot give a timeline, but at the moment I do not think it will be any time soon.

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend recall Resolution 502 of the Security Council, which authorised the Falklands operation, despite the fact that the Soviet Union, as it then was, could immediately have vetoed it, but did not?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, one thing I have learned as Minister for the United Nations and from our membership of the UN Security Council is that it is important to build support within the UN and the wider framework of the UN family. That allows us, when an egregious abuse takes place, particularly of sovereignty—as we are seeing now in Ukraine and as we saw in the invasion of the Falklands —to come together as a global community, condemn it and act.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that, if Scotland became independent and the United Kingdom ceased to exist, our membership of the Security Council might be open to question? Is that not why President Putin seeks to break up Britain?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I do not want to contemplate a day when there is any break-up of the United Kingdom, and that is why we must stay united in ensuring that our United Kingdom—these four nations—is absolutely at one. The importance of the United Kingdom’s position on the world stage through our membership of the P5 and active membership of NATO and other multilateral organisations demonstrates that strength. We are better and stronger together.

[Baroness Coussins (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister update the House on any progress there has been towards achieving a Security Council resolution on the protection of civilian interpreters working in conflict zones along the same lines as the resolution for the protection of journalists?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, I commend the noble Baroness on her long-standing campaigning in this regard. I assure her that we continue to campaign on the very basis that she has illustrated. It is important that, as we stand up for media freedom, we also recognise the important role that translators and interpreters play.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the penholder system of the Security Council gives the UK and other permanent members quite significant responsibilities to draft outcomes of documents. Does the Minister agree that it is important to involve non- permanent members in this process? If so, will the Government support extending the principle of co-penholders, or deputy pen-holders, so that we engage others within the work of the Security Council? I commend the Minister on how we focused on the General Assembly and achieved far more than simply worrying about Security Council reform.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord is right: when we want to see the global community moving together, it is not the view of five countries that should prevail but those of the wider membership of the Security Council. That is why we work very closely together. For example, I host an annual meeting of outgoing and new members of the Security Council to establish their priorities, the current penholding situation and our current priorities, so that we can share objectives and ensure buy-in and support for their objectives as well as our own. We will continue to work in that co-operative way, strengthening further the work of the General Assembly.

Iran: Women’s Rights

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 21st December 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking to support women in Iran fighting for basic human rights; and what representations they have made to the government of that country in relation to mass arrests of those demonstrating for such rights.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the bravery shown by the women of Iran is nothing short of remarkable. This Government stand with them as they demand a better future. We have already worked with partners to remove Iran from the United Nations Commission on the Status of Women on 14 December. We have helped to secure a Human Rights Council resolution to investigate the crackdown on protestors on 24 November, and we have announced three rounds of sanctions since October on individuals involved in the arrest, detention and sentencing of protestors, most recently on 9 December. Our position is absolutely clear: we will continue to hold the Iranian Government to account for their continued repression of women and girls and for the shocking violence that they have inflicted on their own citizens and people.

[Baroness Taylor of Stevenage (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for his Answer. Since the tragic death of Mahsa Amini, atrocities in Iran continue, as we all know. I agree with the Minister that the courage of our Iranian sisters continues to call us to action. On Monday, Female Voice of Iran visited us in Parliament to lobby for further sanctions against Iran, for the proscription of the Islamic Revolutionary Guard Corps as a terror organisation, and for the UK to join France, Germany and Canada in supporting the Iranian freedom movement. The Universal Declaration of Human Rights, to which Iran is a signatory, states that all human beings—not just men—

“are born free and equal in dignity and rights”.

It guarantees freedom of expression and peaceful assembly. What are the UK Government going to do further to ensure that Iran upholds these rights in current protests?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I welcome both the noble Baroness’s question and her engagement directly with the FCDO. I look forward to further engagement on this and other issues. I assure her that we continue to—I cannot speculate on future sanctions but, as I indicated earlier, there have been three tranches from October to December. We are also working with our key international partners. It is of course important that, ultimately, the future destiny of Iran is decided by its own citizens and people. What is very clear, with every passing day—every passing hour—is that the legitimacy of the current Government is being lost. They are suppressing their own citizens; that has to stop—and stop now.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, the jailing this week in the notorious Evin prison of the courageous Iranian actress Taraneh Alidoosti underlined the insatiable appetite of the theocratic regime for imprisonment, gender-based violence, torture, enforced disappearance, arbitrary arrest and execution. Does not this amount to crimes against humanity? At this critical time, what can the noble Lord tell us about the continuation of the BBC Persian radio service following warnings this week from Ken McCallum, the head of MI5, about the targeting of individuals in the United Kingdom who have criticised the state or supported the protests? Will he ensure the protection of pro-democracy Iranians in the United Kingdom and that it is given new urgency?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord raises a number of important points. Of course, on the key point of the safety and security of people who are in the United Kingdom, including institutions and organisations, the Government are working directly with our own security and police to ensure that safety and security are guaranteed. If there are specific issues that are raised directly with the noble Lord on ensuring the safety and security of an individual or organisation, I would urge him to raise it with me directly.

[Baroness Warsi (Con)]

My Lords, what specific engagement have we had with British Iranians who, despite the lockdown on social media and communications, have direct links with family and friends in Iran and are therefore receiving updates in a way that perhaps even the Government are not? Will my noble friend consider discussing with his colleagues from the Home Office the potential for a legal route to asylum for those suffering the most extreme violence and persecution, especially those for whom people in the United Kingdom would be prepared to open up their homes?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend raises two very important points. Of course, we are looking to engage directly with communities and representatives here who represent Iranian interests, including NGOs. Again, as I said to the noble Lord, Lord Alton, I would welcome any recommendations on specifics that my noble friend has from her own insight and experience. Our focus at the FCDO has been on international action. I was myself at the UN—I returned on Friday—specifically in relation to the work that we were doing on the CSW. It was very clear there that there was no support for Iran from the majority of countries; there were abstentions and only a handful of countries voted to keep Iran on. On the second point, we have always been a country that has provided safe refuge and sanctuary for those fleeing persecution. Again, safe routes and safe passages for such sanctuary is clearly the Government’s intent.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I very much welcome the Government’s efforts at the United Nations, particularly at ECOSOC and its Commission on the Status of Women. I know that we are working with allies and amplifying the voices of international communities, but one thing that I have raised with the Minister before is the important question of how we are supporting those voices of civil society—particularly faith groups—who can condemn this action, so that it is not just simply seen as a western response but a community response to defend women’s rights?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I totally agree with the noble Lord and I assure him that we are talking directly both with individuals and with organisations. Indeed, I have asked to meet with senior leaders of different faith groups here, particularly those who have representation in Iran. It is important that the Iranian Government understand very clearly that none of the approaches that they have adopted currently—whether on the JCPOA, their support for drones in Ukraine or the continued suppression of their own citizens—opens up any avenue for effective and constructive discussion. I continue to engage with different groups and I think that faith groups, particularly those which look towards or operate in Iran, have an important role to play.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I support strongly the Minister’s diplomatic work at the UN that he has just referred to. However, there have been concerns about the ending of programmes that support women in the political, civic and human rights space. That concern was tempered in February when the noble Lord, Lord Goldsmith, replied to me, saying that

“the Foreign Secretary has been clear that we are restoring funding to women and girls.”—[Official Report, 28/2/22; col. 541.]

In November, the Minister was unable to confirm to me that that was the case. Through no fault of his own, the noble Viscount, Lord Younger, was not able to clarify that point in our debate on development last week. Can the Minister be very clear: is that promise—made to me in this Chamber—that funding for women and girls is being restored being upheld or will the noble Lord, Lord Goldsmith, have to come back to this Chamber to correct the record?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the Government have been clear on this. There are some final discussions to take place—which is why my noble friend Lord Younger, or indeed I, was not clear on that—but, once these figures are finalised, we will of course share them with your Lordships’ House. On the point about my noble friend Lord Goldsmith, he was very clear about the importance that we attach to girls’ education, women’s rights and humanitarian support; at a time of great challenge to the ODA budget, they will remain key priorities for His Majesty’s Government.

[Lord Austin of Dudley (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, this is a brutal and corrupt dictatorship that terrorises its people, slaughters protesters, enslaves women, hangs gay men from cranes, sponsors terrorism around the region and here in Europe and is developing nuclear weapons to attack Israel. Can the Minister tell us why the Government have not already proscribed the IRGC? I urge the Minister and the Government to impose much tougher sanctions on the dictatorship’s leadership, so that we can bring this brutal regime to its knees and free the poor people of Iran.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I totally agree with the noble Lord’s opening remarks. It is for all those reasons that we have taken a very tough stance on sanctions, including on individuals and the organisation of the IRGC since 2019. The noble Lord knows that the issue of proscription is something that I cannot speculate on, but I can assure him that both I and my noble friend on the Front Bench for the Home Office—both departments—are very seized and aware of the strong sentiments that both Houses, parliamentarians and indeed the public hold on this issue.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, we all applaud the brave women and men fighting for the rights of women in Iran against an autocratic regime that sees women as lesser beings with, as a former Ayatollah put it, only half the brain size of a man. While the expulsion of Iran from a UN committee on women is welcome, does the Minister agree that a more powerful condemnation would come from Muslim leaders stating that the behaviour of the Iranian regime is rooted in perverse and dated culture and has nothing to do with the ethical teachings of Islam?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord. While I am not a Muslim leader, I am a Minister who happens to be Muslim and I totally and utterly condemn the suppression of women, not just in Iran but anywhere in the world. Women have a pivotal role to play in any society in any country. The evidence is there: where women play a central and pivotal role, societies prosper and countries continue to progress. Iran needs to change its direction now, not just because of what it is doing to its citizens but because its own religion that it claims to follow tells it to do just that.

Chinese Consul General: Attack on Protesters in Manchester

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 20th December 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, on one of the points that the noble Lord raised, at no time in our conversations with the Chinese embassy did we ask them to remove their diplomats. It was right that there was a police investigation and then, based on police advice, we asked for the immunities to be waived.

The noble Lord asked about the issue of persona non grata. He is indeed correct that it was raised in the other place. I can confirm that the consul-general and the five other staff who the police had identified have now left the UK and are no longer accredited consular staff in the UK. It is right that they are no longer here. We have been clear that the consul-general and the others would not be welcome to do any further posting here in the UK.

I take on board the strong sentiments that have been expressed in your Lordships’ House and the other place about the importance of ensuring that people who commit such actions are subject to police investigations and, if the Vienna convention is exercised, that we follow through on that and ensure that such people are not posted to the UK.

With regard to what the noble Lord said about other international partners, I myself have not directly engaged on that issue, but if there is more detail to share then I will share it with the noble Lord.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the activities of the Chinese have undermined the entire concept of diplomatic activity. However, what they have done here is overt, and we are rightly rid of them; I think I took it from the Minister that they will effectively be personae non gratae, but he was careful with his language.

That is overt activity, but I am also concerned about covert activity by what remains of the Chinese missions. I asked the noble Lord, Lord Murray of Blidworth, who is sitting on the Bench next to the noble Lord, Lord Ahmad, whether the Government intend in the National Security Bill to make covert activity by foreign intelligence services operating without the approval of the United Kingdom Government unlawful. The Minister said their activities would be prejudicial to the safety and interests of the United Kingdom but would remain lawful. Why is that the case? For such activities, those who are living in the UK should be liable to remedy under law. Why is the National Security Bill not going to clamp down on that?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I do not wish to speak to the specifics of the National Security Bill, but I will follow that up; I was not part of that exchange. I am very clear that, as we have done on this occasion, we must follow through specifically and work with police authorities. If individuals are identified then we must ensure that, as the police identify them, we ask for immunities to be waived. The Vienna Convention on Consular Relations was set up with good intent. We expect everyone who is appointed to the Court of St James and indeed diplomats up and down the country to adhere to the principle but also the spirit of that convention.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, how does the Minister think the Chinese Communist Party would have reacted if the British consul in Shanghai had physically assaulted a Chinese citizen? Will he undertake to ensure that his department will reply to the letter that I sent to the Foreign Secretary asking whether the diplomats, against whom we failed to take immediate action, will be banned from the UK and our overseas UK territories and whether we are seeking compensation from the CCP for the cost of the Manchester police inquiry?

Given the decision of Tower Hamlets Council to reject the planning application for the mega-embassy on the Royal Mint site, will the Minister undertake to answer the questions that I put to him during the debate on China and human rights that was initiated by the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans, which remain unanswered, and review the CCP’s acquisition of that site?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, if the noble Lord has not yet received the letter from that debate, I shall of course follow that up. On the specific issue of the planning application, he will be aware that my right honourable colleague the Secretary of State for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities has a direct quasi-judicial obligation. The noble Lord referred to a specific planning application. At some point, that may be referred to him, so I cannot comment on it.

On the noble Lord’s earlier point, I cannot speak for the Chinese Communist Party, but I can say that I am absolutely honoured to speak for His Majesty’s Government, because our moral compass is markedly different from that of the Chinese Communist Party.

[Lord Walney (CB)]

The reprehensible actions in Manchester are part of a pattern of the Chinese Government testing the resolve of the UK and our allies through very deliberate transgressions of our legal system. Can the Minister give an update on the unofficial police stations that his colleague the Security Minister made an announcement on last month? What has been done to formally identify that they are acting in this way, and to shut them down?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I will have to follow up on the specifics, but on the noble Lord’s more general point about these so-called unofficial police stations, they have no basis in the United Kingdom and where they and such actions are identified, we shall take appropriate action to shut them down, as he said.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, the last question certainly deserves an answer, because this is very strange. Does the Minister appreciate and agree—I think he does—that this incident is a small part of the gigantic dilemma of our relationship with the People’s Republic of China in the coming years? Does he agree that there is a need to clarify what part the Chinese system deeply embedded in our present infrastructure should play in the future, or how we will change it? How will we deal with the fact, mentioned by the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, that our trade with China is still on an enormous scale and touches on important areas of security? Does the Minister not agree that the recent lead from the Foreign Affairs Committee of the other place—that we should make real efforts to clarify this very difficult relationship, without going to absurd lengths by trying to cancel China and so on—is a very necessary part of developing our new foreign policy in an utterly changed world?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as we look at refreshing the integrated review, these aspects will of course be covered, but I agree with my noble friend that there are various elements of our policy on China that present an immense challenge. The actions of the consul general and other officials were, frankly, absolutely against any diplomatic action. It would ultimately have been for the police to investigate and decide, but we observed those actions and they were absolutely against any kind of sanction or action that should have been taken by any diplomat.

On the wider question of our relationship with China, my noble friend is of course right to point out that we have a trading relationship. On broader global challenges, including global health and climate change, China has an important role to play. But, as the Minister of State for Human Rights, among other things, I say that this has not prevented us from calling out China when we see an abuse, whether at home or abroad, or from leading the way in multilateral fora, including the Human Rights Council.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, as was said, this is part of a much larger testing of what we do in this country. This is also being lived out and spelled out in our university campuses, where meetings are sometimes being disrupted, people are being shouted down and freedom of speech is under threat. What advice and support are being given to our universities to ensure that these vital values are upheld in our country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the right reverend Prelate is of course right: such actions go totally against the traditions of our country and free debate within universities. Such situations have arisen, and we have given support to universities. I say to all noble Lords—I know that many are involved with educational institutions—that, where they identify such actions, we should be told in order to make sure that authorities take appropriate action.