Iran: Toxic Chemical Agents

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 9th March 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Alton of Liverpool]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of reports that toxic chemical agents have been used against schoolgirls by the authorities in Iran.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the deeply sinister reports of toxic agents being used against schoolgirls in Iran have shocked the world. While we cannot yet draw conclusions on who is responsible, one thing is clear: the Iranian authorities must carry out a fair, transparent and rigorous investigation. It is essential that girls are able to fully exercise their right to education without fear. The United Kingdom considers this a very serious matter and will continue to follow developments very closely.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I am very grateful to the Minister for the way in which he expressed that reply. Can he share with the House his assessment of reports that these wicked attacks are a retaliation following the protests led by women and girls that have convulsed Iran since the death, while in the custody of Iran’s morality police, of 22 year-old Mahsa Amini; and his assessment of the threat on a state-run website that the poisoning would spread if girls’ schools are not closed down? Is it plausible that such systematic and widespread attacks have taken place without the knowledge of the state intelligence agencies and the IRGC? Will the Minister be taking his public demand that there should be an urgent and transparent investigation to the United Nations Human Rights Council, so that those responsible for what he has said are sinister, wicked attacks are brought to justice?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord and he will be aware that I also called this out on 3 March. I have literally just flown in from the United Nations this morning, where Iran and the whole issue of girls and their education, and women’s empowerment, was discussed in a very global sense at the Commission on the Status of Women. I can assure him that, in my meetings with key bilateral partners as well as within the wider context of the UN, these matters have been raised. The noble Lord raises the issue of the Human Rights Council and we are of course following what further steps we can take with key partners there. As to who is responsible, there is a lot of speculation out there but it is clear that, since November, 800 to 900 girls have been impacted. This is very sinister and it is down to the Iranian authorities to investigate it properly, in the interests of their own citizens.

[Baroness Manzoor (Con)]

My Lords, what is happening in Iran to many girls and women is of course sinister and shocking. But looking at education in Iran further down the line, schools for girls are being closed. There is separate education for boys and girls, with girls being totally marginalised and taught only arts and humanities. Will my noble friend the Minister ensure that these longer-term issues, as well as the shocking violence taking place against girls and women, are addressed? These other issues should also be addressed so that we do not have another generation of women who are deeply affected by a lack of education in Iran.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I totally agree with my noble friend; there is nothing to justify that kind of suppression of girls’ education anywhere in the world, be it in Iran or Afghanistan, which we have talked about. I can share with her that, having spoken specifically with the OIC and the Islamic countries, there is a plan for a UN-sponsored conference within the region immediately after Ramadan. It is likely to be in Kuwait and will focus on the very issue of women and girls’ rights within the context of Islam, so that Islam does not suppress them but promotes them.

[Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab)]

My Lords, I too just returned from the UN at the beginning of last week. One issue being raised at the UN now, in its Human Rights Council, is not the genocide convention, although that is being raised a lot too, but the apartheid convention and whether its definitions of race should be expanded to include gender. All the same components of not allowing women to have access to civil society, participation in politics or education can certainly be seen in Afghanistan, and should be called out for happening there because apartheid is a crime—a crime against humanity. The inclusion of gender in that definition is about addressing the serious ways in which women’s non-participation is increasing in such places. We now see that in Iran too. Is the Minister raising the issue of expanding apartheid to include the question of gender?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, what I can say to the noble Baroness on the issue of gender is that, within the context of UN discussions at the moment, there is a very regressive prevailing attitude among certain countries on reopening things which have already been determined, including definitions of gender. This is now causing great concern. We often talk about like-minded countries but there are un-like-minded like-minded countries, if I can phrase it that way, leading the charge so we must remain firm on this. I assure the noble Baroness of my good offices, and those of the FCDO and all colleagues, in ensuring that we keep girls’ and women’s rights very much at the forefront of our international policy.

[The Lord Bishop of Exeter]

My Lords, the production and utilisation of chemical warfare in civil and international conflicts is explicitly prohibited under the Chemical Weapons Convention, to which Iran is a signatory and a participating member. Will His Majesty’s Government commit to using this existing framework to advocate for the creation of a fact-finding mission by the Organisation for the Prohibition of Chemical Weapons?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate raises a very important point: the proliferation of nuclear weapons and the enrichment of uranium towards having them is very much at the heart of our approach. He may know that, yesterday, the E3 made a statement directly on the visit of the IAEA’s DG, Mr Grossi, who was in Iran. What is really worrying at the moment is that the levels of enrichment which now prevail in Iran have, according to the latest reports in the region, reached about 83.7%. This is fast approaching the very level which would allow for nuclear weapons to be produced. We call again on Iran publicly, as we did yesterday, to desist from this practice because not doing so is creating a precarious situation—not just in the region but globally.

[Baroness Helic (Con)]

My Lords, in a debate in the Moses Room on 23 February, the Minister promised to take back the concerns of your Lordships’ House regarding the closure of the BBC Persian radio service. Given the importance of the BBC in reporting this appalling attack on schoolgirls, can he tell the House what response he received from the Foreign Secretary and the Chancellor on ensuring that the decision to shut down BBC Persian is reversed?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend is correct. I asked for a specific update and I know that we are looking at the languages which the FCDO supports directly. Persian is not one of them but I have certainly taken back the very points raised in those debates and I hope to update my noble friend in the very near future.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the FCDO women’s strategy rightly highlights the persecution of women in Iran. Home Office figures for 2022 state that 1,218 vulnerable and persecuted women from Iran claimed asylum within the UK, of whom 232 are under 29 and are not eligible for the resettlement scheme. Under the Government’s Bill, they would now be voided and deported. Will the Minister give me and them the assurance that they will not be deported back to Iran? If they are not deported back to Iran, then where? Will he please explain to an Iranian woman who is seeking asylum within the UK what the safe and legal route is, since currently there is not one?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I believe that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister has spoken about the importance of safe and legal routes but I assure the noble Lord that the situation in Iran also prompts the importance of the United Kingdom particularly continuing to support those women and girls who seek refuge here. We have a long-standing tradition in this regard and I believe it is important that that continues.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I know that the Minister will not speculate but, just to pick up the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Alton, there is increasing evidence of the state’s involvement in this, particularly by the IRGC. When are we going to hear from the Government about that organisation being proscribed?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we have imposed further sanctions on individuals within the IRGC and the organisation itself has been sanctioned. I have heard consistently across the House and from all Benches about the importance that is attached to proscription, but the noble Lord is quite correct; at this moment, I cannot speculate from the Dispatch Box about what may happen next.

British-Iranian Relations

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 23rd February 2023 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, as others have, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Alton, and recognise his continued advocacy on important issues of human rights; Iran is no exception. While I recognise the different points raised, both on a personal level and as a Minister, including in my capacity as Minister for Human Rights, I assure all noble Lords, irrespective of their contributions, that the principles they have articulated are very clear to me. While I cannot speak in detail, my advocacy in my capacity as a Minister in private, internal discussions that are taking place will perhaps resonate with noble Lords. I assure noble Lords of my best efforts in this regard.

The debate today has shown that we all recognise, as my noble friend Lord Shinkwin reminded us, that Iran’s reprehensible and abhorrent behaviour has escalated in recent months. It is very clear. Since the start of 2022, there have been 15 credible threats to kill or kidnap British or UK-based individuals by the Iranian regime. I recognise the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Alton, about the sanctioning perpetrated against both him and my noble friend Lord Polak. It is different now—in all my time as a Minister, I have never seen the need to brief all parliamentarians about the risks of the Iranian threat to us here in the United Kingdom. Most recently, we have seen the brazen behaviour of the regime in targeting journalists and their families in the UK.

The noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, raised three important points, which I will come to. On the last of the three, also articulated by the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, I can give that assurance. We work closely with the families of journalists. If noble Lords pick up particular instances or specific areas of concern, they should first be flagged to the police, but if they are also made known to us within government, while we cannot talk in detail, we will seek to ensure that appropriate protections and advice are provided.

Over the last six months, we have seen the regime’s brutal crackdown on protesters fighting for their basic freedoms; many noble Lords referred to this. At the same time, the regime continues to provide support to Russia in its appalling and brutal illegal war. I am sure I speak for all noble Lords in saying that I hope we shall see another vote at the UN General Assembly in favour of Ukraine later today. We have been lobbying hard to ensure that many countries across the region where Iran is based recognise the importance of Iran’s destabilising actions, not just in the region but right here in Europe. As noble Lords also articulated, Iran’s nuclear programme is now more advanced than ever; I will come to that in a moment.

The noble Lord, Lord Dholakia, talked about Iranians in the UK; I recognise the points he made. We take a measured approach in engaging with both Iranian civil society and the diaspora in the UK. We are clear that the choice of Iran’s Government will ultimately be a matter for the Iranian people.

The noble Baroness, Lady Deech, was right to raise concerns about the Islamic Centre of England. On 14 November 2022, the Charity Commission approved and opened a statutory inquiry into the charity due to serious governance concerns that were raised. We are following that very closely. I note the points that the noble Baroness raised.

I will address the repeated threats to UK-based individuals. Over the past year we have seen credible threats, as I have alluded to. These include very real and specific threats towards UK-based journalists working for Iran International. While there has been much speculation, I assure noble Lords that we are working across government—and, as my right honourable friend said in the other place, together with Iran International —to ensure the protection of its activities here and the important work it does. This hostile behaviour is unacceptable and we will not tolerate attempts to threaten, intimidate or harm anyone in the UK. We will also not tolerate direct attacks on media freedom, which are threats to our fundamental values of freedom of expression and the media.

I turn to the BBC Persian service. As the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, said, I could articulate what I said before about our support for the broader service. I shall be very clear to the noble Lord, Lord Alton, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of St Albans, the noble Lords, Lord Hannay and Lord Purvis, and the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins. Indeed, more or less all the contributions today have focused on BBC Persian, which is right—and I recognise the valuable service that it provides. I also recognise that we are in a very different phase to where we were when certain decisions were taken, even six to 12 months ago. Therefore, I shall of course take note of the immense strength of feeling, although I cannot give the assurances that the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, seeks at this time. However, I shall take the issue back. As I said, I share many of the concerns that have been raised, and I recognise that, while radio is a small proportion of the service provided by BBC Persian, it is an important service, particularly in the current circumstances.

To turn to some specific actions, on 20 February, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary summoned the chargé, Iran’s most senior diplomat in London, to make a formal protest about Iran’s intolerable threats in the UK and to warn against any further activity. The noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, alluded to this. It shocks me. I have had various conversations with the chargé, and I put it very bluntly to him that they are actually killing their next generation. To put all other issues aside, given some of the people who have been executed, in terms of age and their contributions to Iran, it is shocking to see the regime acting in the way it does. What answer does Iran have? To share the answer, the answer is nothing. How can you respond to that?

I assure all noble Lords that we will continue to work closely with law enforcement to identify, deter and respond to emerging threats. As my right honourable friend the Security Minister made clear earlier this week, we will work closely with our allies in a unified response. The noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, and the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, also raised those issues. Of course, we are working hand in glove with our allies. This is a threat that is real not just for those in the region but across the world.

To turn to the protests in Iran, the noble Lord, Lord Alton, my noble friend Lord Polak, as well as the noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, and others, raised this issue. I have already alluded to how you deal with a regime that is so brutal to its own people—yet we shall stay focused and work with our allies in this respect. Holding the regime to account was raised by the noble Lord, Lord Alton, and others. Five months have passed since the tragic incident and tragic death of Mahsa Amini, which we have discussed in your Lordships’ House, after she was arrested by Iran’s so-called morality police, which sparked protests in which we have seen brave Iranian people stand up for their basic rights and freedom.

The noble Lord, Lord Alton, asked about specific records. Of course, it is difficult, but we have estimated that more than 500 people have now died and more than 18,000 people have been arrested, with 1,500 injured. Tragically, some of those numbers include about 65 children, if not more. Their demand is a simple one—for a better future—and we stand by that. It is clear that the Iranian people will no longer tolerate the violence and oppression of the regime, which is putting its own interests above theirs. The UK is working in international fora and directly on this issue. On Monday, we sanctioned eight individuals for horrific human rights violations, including the killing of children, and last month we sanctioned the Basij Resistance Force for its brutal repression on the streets of Iran.

My noble friend Lord Polak, rightly, along with the noble Baronesses, Lady Wheeler and Lady Deech, asked about the IRGC. The UK maintains sanctions on over 300 individuals and entities for their roles in Iran’s human rights violations. That includes the IRGC in its entirety. Of course, further sanctions have been imposed on key individuals. I am not going to speculate about our future response, but I have heard again very clearly where noble Lords stand on this. I can share with noble Lords that we are working very closely across government on the issues that noble Lords have raised, particularly in relation to proscription.

On the important issue of human rights more generally, I listened very carefully to the contribution of my noble friend Lord McColl. I reassure him that the sanctions that are imposed—indeed, any sanction imposed on the Iranian regime—have the appropriate carve-outs that allow us to provide that basic humanitarian and medical support that is needed. As we are increasing sanctions, they are being felt by the regime and having an impact. At the moment, it is not the right time to do anything that would seek to alleviate or recognise things beyond humanitarian or medical support.

The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, raised asylum seekers and pathways; I myself have been following this and asked that question. I assure noble Lords that I will follow this up directly with colleagues at the Home Office. Although it is a matter for them, I recognise that Iranians are eligible for the resettlement scheme, for example, which is a global scheme that started in March 2021. The need for safe routes for asylum is crucial; we need to remain focused on that.

The noble Lord, Lord Polak, talked about our human rights work. He will know about the action that we have taken at the CSW; I thank my noble friend in that respect. I assure all noble Lords that we will use the 52nd session of the UN Human Rights Council to make clear our views on Iran’s credibility on human rights issues.

In terms of Iran supporting Russia, the illegal war continues and Iran is profiteering from it. The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, made an important point about BRICS. I assure him that we waste no opportunity in the context of our G7 representations to make clear to countries that perhaps do not share the same view the importance of acting together.

On wider destabilisation, I met the Foreign Minister of Yemen this week and was in the Gulf last week to align ourselves fully in strengthening our alliance against Iran’s destabilising influences. We will continue to work hand in glove.

The nuclear threat is ever increasing. I will write to noble Lords on where we have got to specifically but I assure them that we are watching this continuing threat. It is not in any way a comprehensive deal, as the noble Baroness, Lady Deech, said. The deal has been ready for signing for some months now but Iran has not moved. The challenge on the issue of nuclear enrichment is ever increasing; I particularly appreciate the valuable insights of the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, on this. We will move forward carefully with our partners because the ultimate objective must be that we do not allow Iran to gain nuclear weapons. I will write in further detail on that important point to say exactly where we are.

I welcome this debate. Like the noble Lord, Lord Alton, I recognise that we cannot cover a subject of such gravity in one hour. I spoke to officials earlier today and before this debate; we will look to see whether we can arrange an appropriate briefing at the FCDO, perhaps including colleagues from the Home Office, so that we can give noble Lords a more detailed insight into our current work and, of course, listen to their valuable advice.

Committee adjourned at 3.58 pm.

Raid of BBC Offices in India

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 21st February 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I shall now repeat in the form of a Statement the Answer given by my honourable friend the Minister for the Americas and Caribbean to an Urgent Question in another place on the raids of BBC offices in India. The Answer is as follows:

“Thank you, Mr Speaker. I am grateful to the honourable Member for Strangford, Jim Shannon, for raising this Urgent Question. I appreciate his interest in recent news that India’s income tax department has conducted what is described as a ‘survey’ on the BBC’s offices in New Delhi and Mumbai. This began on 14 February and finished after three days, on 16 February.

As everyone in this House will be aware, the BBC is, quite rightly, operationally and editorially independent of His Majesty’s Government. While I cannot comment on the allegations made by India’s income tax department, the BBC has said that it is supporting its staff in its Indian offices and co-operating with the Indian authorities to resolve this matter as soon as possible.

Respect for the rule of law is an essential element of an effective democracy; so too are an independent media and freedom of speech. They make countries stronger and more resilient, and that is why we regularly engage with different parts of India’s media and support it, for example through the annual South Asia Journalism Fellowship programme and our flagship Chevening brand, which includes over 60 Indian alumni.

As my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has previously said, the UK regards India as an important partner and His Majesty’s Government are investing heavily in strengthening our ties. Our broad and deep relationship, guided by our comprehensive strategic partnership and the 2030 roadmap for India-UK future relations allows us to discuss a wide range of issues in a constructive manner with the Government of India. We will continue to follow this matter closely.”

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for repeating the Answer. India, of course, has a unique status as the world’s largest democracy but as the Minister said, in any democracy media freedoms are vital and freedom of expression must be protected. Earlier today, when the Question was asked in the House of Commons, my honourable friend Fabian Hamilton asked the Minister if the FCDO is directly engaging with the BBC World Service to offer support and protection following these events, particularly for the BBC staff in India. Obviously, linked to the previous Statement, it is really important that the Government offer that additional support. Given that the Minister in the House of Commons was unable to confirm that, I hope that the Minister can do so tonight.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that, yes, we are of course engaging with the BBC directly at FCDO. Indeed, as he will know, I have been involved in the important issue of the safety and protection of journalists for a number of years. As I said in the original Statement, the protection of journalists around the world, but also media freedom, are essential parts of any progressive, inclusive democracy.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

My Lords, the rule of law and freedom of speech are vital for a thriving democracy, as the noble Lord has said. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that support for the BBC needs to be clear. Will the Government now pause any discussions on services and data in the free trade talks until and unless urgent and satisfactory clarification is given regarding the potential use of laws in this area for political retribution? Does he also recognise—we have discussed this before—the impact that India’s law on foreign contributions has had on a number of NGOs, including Oxfam, and which is considered to have raised human rights issues?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness is, of course, correct in her second question. I continue to engage directly with various organisations, and I meet with their representatives regularly. The strength of our relationship allows us to raise these important issues directly with India and to make progress on them. On the first issue the noble Baroness raised, it is important that we continue to engage directly with India. Our talks and discussions are multi-faceted. We are very conscious that the current investigation is ongoing, so I will not comment on any specifics. However, having engaged directly with the Indian authorities and met with the Indian High Commissioner only yesterday to discuss this matter, I understand that the BBC and the Indian authorities are working very closely and looking to resolve the issues as soon as possible.

[Baroness Kennedy of The Shaws (Lab)]

My Lords, I know the Minister is very alert to the particular problems journalists experience when Governments do not like the criticisms they face, particularly of human rights abuses. However, this is not the first time India has displayed a sort of retribution policy towards journalists and journalistic entities that are critical of what is happening under the Modi Administration. The Minister talks about our close relationship with India and its enabling frank discussions, but can we genuinely discuss the hostility that those who criticise human rights abuses are experiencing? A young woman journalist, Rana Ayyub, was refused exit to travel to Britain to take part in seminars and a conference about the way in which the Muslim community in India were suffering at the hands of the Government. Just how frank can the Government be with our great friend India?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I recognise equally the important work the noble Baroness continues to champion on media freedom around the world and the protection of journalists. I assure her that the strength of our relationship with India is such that, in my various hats, including as Human Rights Minister, there is a regular dialogue on particular issues and cases. We have constructive exchanges. As I have experienced during my time as Minister responsible, the level and nature of our engagement, and our ability to engage—at times not in a public manner but privately—has unlocked and seen progress. Equally, we expect that kind of scrutiny of ourselves as well. I assure the noble Baroness of my good offices in ensuring that, when issues arise, we raise them directly and constructively with the Indian authorities. At times we will do this in significant private engagements, but those also unlock constructive outcomes.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, can the Minister give an insight into what advice, if any, has been given by the BBC India legal and accounting team on what might be the best moves in this regard? Is the FCDO connecting directly with these professional services to be assured that everything is being done in the way which we know that it will be being done, and that we have the good advice of professional services within India?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I cannot comment too much on this ongoing investigation by the Indian authorities, but the BBC is engaging very constructively. We all know that the BBC is a professional organisation, independent editorially and in its governance and structures. It is important that we look to resolve these particular issues. The BBC is a valued asset of the United Kingdom around the world. As we saw in the earlier Statement, it provides valuable sources of information as well. It is important for us to seek, through our relationship with India, to resolve in a constructive way any issues that arise across the piece on human rights or any other matters. Both countries are absolutely committed to strengthening our relationship bilaterally.

[Lord Dodds of Duncairn (DUP)]

I think I heard the Minister say that he met the high commissioner in London on this specific issue. For the sake of clarity, could he confirm whether that is the case? If so, does the Minister have plans to meet the high commissioner or for the Government to engage with the Indian authorities as this investigation is concluded, because obviously follow-up is extremely important in this matter?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the short answer to my noble friend’s first question is yes. As I said, it is the nature of that engagement and our investment in that relationship which allows us to engage in such a direct way. Our high commissioner and his team on the ground in Delhi are engaging and have raised these issues with the Indian authorities. The important thing is that the BBC is engaging constructively with the Indian authorities. We all hope that there will be a progressive resolution to these issues and that the BBC will continue to operate as it does elsewhere. I am refraining from commenting too much because this is ongoing, but the important thing in all this is that the BBC and the authorities are engaging constructively—and it is clear to me that they are.

[Baroness Northover (LD)]

I want to come back to the first question I asked the Minister, which I do not think he fully answered. Will the Government look at pausing discussions on services and data in the free trade talks in the light of what is happening?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I believe I have already answered the question. The importance of the FTA is such that, if and when certain issues arise, we will aim to address them constructively. The important thing is that both countries are absolutely committed to delivering an inclusive, multifaceted FTA, and our progress will continue on all fronts in that regard.

Afghanistan: British Council Staff

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 9th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Hussein-Ece]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what progress they have made in helping relocate former British Council staff, living in danger in Afghanistan since 2021, who qualify for the Afghan citizens resettlement scheme.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, progress continues to be made to support those eligible under the first year of pathway 3 of the Afghan citizens resettlement scheme, or ACRS. We have now allocated around 60% of the 1,500 available places to the British Council contractors, GardaWorld contractors and Chevening scholars, including their dependents. An increasing number of individuals are now also safely in a third country and being provided with UK-funded accommodation and other support, while awaiting further checks prior to travelling to and securing accommodation in the UK.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

I thank the Minister for that reply, but is he aware—I am sure that he is—that these British Council teachers, numbering between 100 and 200 by the latest information, were recruited and directly employed by the British Council, teaching English and inclusion to combat violent extremism and to promote British values? The majority qualify for the ACRS, but they were abandoned in 2021; many are still in hiding and are now actively being targeted and hunted by the Taliban. Given that this British Council work was supported by the UK Government’s ODA budget, what further action is the FCDO taking to ensure that the British Council honours its obligations and responsibilities to those it employed in Afghanistan and does more to help those who have not got the means to buy visas to get out to safety in a third country?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Baroness; both the British Council and His Majesty’s Government need to honour the commitments given to the incredible people who helped serve in Afghanistan and carried out such important duties, including through the British Council, in the area of education, among others. We work very closely and have regular meetings with the British Council, and I get regular updates on those who are making progress under pathway 3. There are challenges that are obviously still being worked through, including relating to those who have arrived in the UK through the other two ACRS pathways and are going into permanent accommodation. I assure the noble Baroness that I am focused on ensuring that we see greater progress and deliver on the 1,500 places that were agreed as part of His Majesty’s Government’s commitment. I pay tribute to the noble Baroness and others in your Lordships’ House who are also focused on ensuring that we get the desired outcome for all those who serve Britain, as part of the British Council or indeed other organisations.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

Will my noble friend the Minister make clear what the criteria are for Afghans coming to the UK? I share with him the example of one of my former academic colleagues who wrote to me the other day saying that he had worked with Kabul University and Kabul Polytechnic University with the British Council. This person has been targeted and had been trying to come to Britain, but he was refused. Can the Minister be quite clear about the criteria for deciding which Afghans who worked for the British should be allowed here? Frankly, most of them should be.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, there are specific criteria for who qualifies under the scheme, which I will work through. To give the context in terms of numbers: when the ACRS pathway 3 was opened, over 11,400 applications were received for those 1,500 places. As I said, we allocated about 1,600 because it is not just the principals but also their dependents and of course additional family members as well. Each one requires scrutiny, checks and security validation—that is part and parcel of the process. The initial criteria that are applied are of course quite strict, including for those who were directly employed by the British Council and who also had direct input into serving British interests. I have worked on this brief since the Taliban takeover; it is probably one of the most complex areas of our work but, equally, we need to ensure that there are robust procedures so that applications are and dealt with as swiftly as possible when they are received. I fully accept that we need to see—and expedite—progress for those who do qualify.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I recognise what the Minister has been doing personally, but we cannot be filled with too much confidence when we hear a Minister say one thing in the Chamber of the House of Commons and then the department say something completely different later. It is an absolute scandal that people who have risked their lives on behalf of the British Government have been left stranded. I agree with the noble Lord opposite that we need proper urgent action; there are 9,000 people who are still at risk in Afghanistan and we owe a duty to them. I understand what the Minister is saying, but I hope that he can assure us that the department will act swiftly with other Whitehall departments to ensure the safety of these people who have protected British interests.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord that, to speak for my own department, we are working through those expressions of interest and are also working closely with GardaWorld and the British Council. Of course, the Chevening scholars, the third cohort highlighted for pathway 3, are an integrated part—they are part and parcel—of the FCDO. However, I understand the frustrations of the noble Lord and indeed everyone in your Lordships’ House who has worked on this. There are processes that need to be followed, including the checks and balances regarding security, which I know the noble Lord agrees must happen. We are also working with near neighbours; there are a number of people who are now waiting in third countries, being supported by the British Government, who need to travel to the UK. We are working across Government, including with colleagues in the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities and the Home Office, to ensure that those who qualify and are in third countries can, as quickly as possible, come to the UK and start to rebuild their lives.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, there is a difference between the ARAP scheme, which did not have a limit on numbers, and the ACRS. My understanding is that some former British Council contractors are deemed eligible to come but have additional family members, which has delayed their ability to come to the United Kingdom. What conversations is the Minister having with the Home Office about this matter? In particular, I asked the noble Lord, Lord Murray of Blidworth, last week whether a meeting with the Home Office would be possible. He said that he would decide whether it was necessary to meet me. I hope that the Minister at the FCDO might feel that a meeting could be useful.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend is not here to share his response but I always feel that Ministers across your Lordships’ House need to engage directly. I know that those are the sentiments of my noble friend the Leader of the House, as well, so I will certainly look into that. On the specific point that the noble Baroness raised, I am aware of some of the cases that have been raised of those who did not qualify under the ARAP scheme and have applied to the ACRS scheme. A number of those cases are being worked through but I am not going to give specific numbers. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, talked about getting into specifics but the numbers regarding those who qualify and under what category, and which part of the process they have reached, are literally moving on a daily basis. However, I assure the noble Baroness of my good offices and if she wishes to meet me, I should be happy to do so.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, I should declare an interest, I suppose, because when I was a junior member of the embassy in Kabul in 1962, I negotiated the first placement of British Council teachers at one of the four high schools in Kabul. The British Council’s time in Afghanistan has been one that we should recognise as a major contribution to that country and our own foreign policy. Is the Minister quite sure that the criteria for admitting people to this scheme are not too tightly and narrowly drawn?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord speaks with great insight and expertise on the importance of our diplomatic services. I must admit that I was not around in 1962, so I do not have his strength of experience. Nevertheless, on the more material point that he raises and the criteria established for working through the three cohorts of Afghans who have been asked to apply for this scheme—we work closely with the organisations in the application of those criteria—as I said in response to my noble friend Lord Kamall, the number wishing to come to the UK who have applied to the scheme far outweighs the number allocated. It is therefore right that we adopt a process that is fair to the individuals applying and ensures that the criteria can be applied as regards additional family members, a point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Smith. It is right that we show compassion if someone approaches but does not fulfil the strict criteria for additional family members who happen to be an elderly mother or father, or a child over the threshold of 18. But that requires a certain degree of delay as an assessment is made on the security of that person’s viability for coming to the UK.

[Lord Clark of Windermere (Lab)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for all his efforts on this particularly difficult problem. He rightly has concentrated on Britain’s responsibility, but other European countries are involved in Afghanistan. What help are we getting from countries such as Sweden, which is very much involved, and are we working with them?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we are working with other partners. At the time of Operation Pitting, the UK was a key country and helped 36 other countries with the departures from Afghanistan. We are working closely with our EU partners and the United States, looking directly at those who have moved to third countries and how best we can expedite their relocation to whichever country they have applied to. That is done in a co-ordinated fashion. That said, all noble Lords are aware that the situation within Afghanistan is going from bad to worse. The deterioration of civil and human rights continues. However, at the same time, we are seeking to engage, even through our chargé based out of Doha, and at least alleviate the plight of those left in Afghanistan, including through humanitarian support.

Soft Power

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 9th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire]

To ask His Majesty’s Government whether they remain committed to maintaining the quality of the components of the United Kingdom’s soft power, as listed in chapter 2 of the Integrated Review of Security, Defence, Development and Foreign Policy (CP 403), published on 16 March 2021.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government remain absolutely committed to harnessing the range of UK influence to advance our interests overseas. The FCDO has demonstrated this through our continued support for the British Council and the BBC World Service, our flagship scholarship programmes engaging future generations of global leaders, our world-class diplomatic network and our role in supporting the international elements of major UK cultural events, such as Her late Majesty Queen Elizabeth’s Platinum Jubilee and the upcoming coronation of Their Majesties the King and Queen Consort.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, the previous Prime Minister but one used to talk about the UK as a soft power superpower. The integrated review listed: the BBC World Service in particular with its global reputation; UK universities and their immense attraction for overseas students; our strong and flourishing cultural sector; the British Council, as the Minister has mentioned; and our record as one of the world’s major and most skilled providers of overseas aid and development assistance. Which of those are the Government still as committed to as they were when the integrated review was agreed?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we are committed to all of the above. The BBC World Service currently provides services in 42 languages to 365 million people. We have committed £94.4 million annually to the BBC through the spending review, an additional £4.1 million to the World Service to support Ukrainian and Russian language services in the light of Russia’s illegal war on Ukraine, and a further £1.44 million from the FCDO to support countering disinformation.

I use that as a specific example, but the noble Lord talked about all the areas. He will know from his involvement in education that the United Kingdom remains second only to the United States in terms of numbers of overseas students. That service has improved. My colleagues at the Home Office have extended someone’s ability to come to the UK not only to study but to work, which enhances both the reputation of the UK’s education offer and the abilities and skills of the individual coming. I would be happy to discuss that with the noble Lord.

Of course I accept that ODA has been cut from 0.7% to 0.5%; I hope we can return to 0.7% as soon as possible. Working within those parameters, we continue to prioritise important issues such as humanitarian support, as we have done recently in Turkey, to ensure that the agility and flexibility needed to respond to natural disasters is also met.

[Lord Blunkett (Lab)]

My Lords, in the light of the Minister’s very wise words on higher education, can he explain the constant briefings from Suella Braverman and Kemi Badenoch that we really do not want higher education international students to come to the United Kingdom and be welcomed in the way that they have been over so many years?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the Minister for South Asia, among other areas, I am directly involved in some of the important work we are doing to strengthen our partnership with India, for example, as well as other south Asian countries, and education is a key component of that. I assure the noble Lord that the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office is very proud of our educational offer to international students and equally proud of the programmes we run, such as the Chevening scholarships and the Commonwealth scholarships, which are part and parcel of our overall educational offer. I stand by the fact that the UK has been, continues to be and should remain a key place for any student wishing to come to the UK, because our educational institutions, with which many noble Lords are involved, are second to none.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, the world has changed rather dramatically in the two years since the publication of this review. I know that the Minister is not directly responsible, but could he go back and ask the Foreign Secretary to lobby for an immediate review of the review, because we must spend more on defence? Funnily enough, I think that is what President Zelensky said yesterday, and everybody said, “Hear, hear”. Well, I say “Hear, hear” to that. We need to have hard power as well as soft power.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

And I say to my noble friend that I hear him, and I hear him again. I assure him that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary is seized of the very points he has just made.

[Baroness D’Souza (CB)]

My Lords, yesterday some of us from this House attended a meeting on the BBC World Service in Iran. That programme is now severely threatened due to various expenditure cuts and the flat licence fee, yet the BBC World Service is the only voice of democracy and values that Iranians have access to at the moment. Can the Minister guarantee that this programme has special consideration by the FCDO to preserve it and allow it to have sufficient funding?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I pay tribute to the noble Baroness’s work in this area. I assure her that we are very much—again—seized of the evolving and changing situation in Iran. We have seen the most appalling and abhorrent suppression of human rights by Iran on its own communities, particularly women and girls. As I understand it, under the current BBC proposals no services will be closed. The issue is one of broadcast services and radio. According to the figures I have, about 1% of the BBC’s total weekly audience of 13.8 million in Iran get BBC news solely by radio. The other 99% use BBC Persian on TV and online. However, I hear what the noble Baroness says. Although the BBC has an independent mandate to work in this respect, the importance of BBC Persian services in Iran is very much a key priority for us as well.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister cannot have it both ways. He talks about grants to the BBC, but it is suffering precisely because of what the noble Baroness asked about in terms of licence fee constraints. Tim Davie has been saying that that it is for the Government to determine strategic decisions on funding the World Service. It is one of the most important elements of our soft power. I hear from Tim Davie that the BBC is making a strong case for the Government to look at taking back responsibility for funding the World Service, taking it away from the licence fee. He has said that he is engaging constructively with the FCDO on future funding. Can the Minister tell us what that means and what sorts of discussions have been taking place?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Well, we are engaging constructively with the BBC, as the noble Lord has heard from the BBC directly. To put this into context, since about 2016 the FCDO, notwithstanding quite a number of challenges that we have faced, has provided more than £468 million to the World Service via the World2020 programme, which funds 12 language services. I also accept that 2016 was the last time a review of those services was carried out. Some of the discussions we are having in the FCDO are about reviewing those services to ensure, as noble Lords often highlight and have done today, that, in an ever-changing world, we prioritise the services that are funded. That said, over 42 languages are funded overall, including through the licence fee. They reach a sizeable part of the world’s population—365 million people. However, I accept the premise of the noble Lord’s question that we need to ensure that the BBC is fit for purpose, particularly in the important service it provides to many communities around the world that are under severe suppression and targeted by their own Governments.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the Government have reaffirmed the importance of soft power to the UK. I agree with them. Three or four years ago, the then Minister for Soft Power met this House’s International Relations and Defence Committee to consult on a soft power strategy that he said was imminent. Who currently is the Minister for Soft Power? Is there a strategy? If there is, where is it?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure your Lordships that the care and compassion shown by all Ministers, including those in the FCDO, are very empowering. We are all responsible for the delivery of the influence that we can extend through our soft power, as it is termed, around the world. The noble Lord will also be aware that that strategy was integrated into the integrated review as part of the influence we have around the world. We have one of the best diplomatic networks, which I know the noble Lord himself has experienced, and the best diplomats around the world. Those networks, working with the likes of the British Council and other key bodies at arm’s length from the UK Government, are part and parcel of the UK offer. The soft power and influence we have around the world, whether through our world-class universities, our diplomats or, indeed, the caring and compassionate words of Ministers who travel around the world, as well as parliamentarians, are all part of that UK offer. It is actually a key part, particularly in the world we live in today.

[Lord Bilimoria (CB)]

My Lords, the UK without doubt has some of the strongest elements of soft power, including the Royal Family, the BBC, Premier League football or our universities. Can the Minister reassure us that, having hit the 600,000 target for international students, there will be no reduction—in fact, we should increase it to 1 million—and that the two-year post-graduation work visa will not be reduced but retained? Why do the Government continue to include international students in net migration figures? They should be excluded, as our competitor countries do.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I first pay tribute to the noble Lord as an example of our soft power around the world. I hear what he said. Of course, it is not within the remit of the department that I speak for, but I will certainly relay the strength of feeling in your Lordships’ House to colleagues in the Home Office. Again, I accept the principle he relates: if we have a world-class offer for students, from which we, they and the world gain, we should ensure that it is available in the maximum way it can be, while accepting the domestic challenges we face.

Turkey: Earthquake Relief

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 6th February 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what immediate assistance with lifesaving, recovery and long term rebuilding and reconstruction efforts they are offering to the Government of Turkey and non-governmental organisations following recent earthquakes.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure that I speak for all in your Lordships’ House in offering condolences to all those impacted and affected by this tragedy in Turkey and Syria. Our thoughts and prayers are with all. Our embassy in Ankara is in direct contact with Turkish authorities and is supporting British nationals. We are also in contact with British humanitarian workers in Syria. I can share with your Lordships that the United Kingdom is sending immediate support to Turkey, including a team of 76 search and rescue specialists as part of our international search and rescue team. They are being dispatched to Turkey as I speak. They will have equipment and rescue dogs. In Syria, the UK aid-funded White Helmets have also been mobilised, and we are working closely with our UN partners to understand the direct impact and options.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, I am grateful, as always, to the Minister for his helpful response. I am sure we all share in sending condolences to those who have lost their lives and their relatives. However, this is not just one but two of the strongest earthquakes ever in an area that is already coping with hundreds of thousands of refugees, so we need to do a great deal. I am glad to hear that the immediate rescue effort has been mobilised. Can the Minister tell us which NGOs are involved with that? When will they leave the United Kingdom for Turkey? What kind of help are they going to give? Will there be specialised equipment as well as men? Will we provide dogs or other assistance? Can he say what skills and equipment we are able to provide?

This is going to be a huge effort. It needs international support from every organisation and every country. Everything that we can do we should be doing. We cannot overestimate the devastation that has taken place, the death and destruction in Turkey. I hope that we will get a clear assurance that the United Kingdom Government, irrespective of the cuts we have sadly seen in the development budget, will make sure that as much money and help are available to Turkey as we can give.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord. He asked some specific questions. We are working directly with the United Nations. I hope to speak to the UN co-ordinator, Mohamed Haji, later today within the context of Syria, but communications are quite challenging, certainly in Syria. The noble Lord is right to ask what we have deployed immediately. A UK international search and rescue team will be deployed today and commence life-saving activity within the critical 72 hours. They will depart on a charter flight from Birmingham at 1800 today and will arrive in Turkey by 2300 UK time tonight. They are working in a co-ordinated fashion with the co-ordinating agency in Turkey. I am sure all noble Lords appreciate that it is an evolving situation. Even as I was leaving the Foreign Office to answer this Question, tragically we saw the reported casualty figure reach 2,000—or a tad just under—and this is after just a few hours. The noble Lord is correct that there were two earthquakes, one of 7.8 magnitude followed by one of 7.5 magnitude, impacting not just Syria and Turkey but further afield, including in Israel and the OPTs.

I assure the noble Lord that, as my right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary have said, we stand with Turkey and the agencies working on the ground, and, importantly, with the UN within the context of Syria, to make sure that what is required immediately and in the medium and long term can be addressed directly. I assure the noble Lord that, as more details evolve, I shall be happy to update your Lordships’ House accordingly.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister mentioned one concern, which is the efforts to get humanitarian aid across the Turkish border to Syria. Syria obviously is in a particularly difficult situation. Will he tell us what steps the Government are taking to support the safe delivery of aid into Syria over the next few days and how they will support the implementation of UN Security Council Resolution 2672 during recovery, which facilitates cross-border aid going into Syria?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Lord will know, within the context of the United Nations, first and foremost we have been working to broaden the scope of humanitarian corridors into Syria. It is regrettable that because of Russia’s actions that has not been possible. However, we will continue to work within the parameters and restrictions that apply. I assure the noble Lord that, for example, with the White Helmets, we are already mobilising additional funding and we are in direct contact with them. Notwithstanding the issues and challenges posed, I hope to speak with their representative, Raed Al Saleh’s deputy, in the coming hours to be updated on what is required. The noble Lord will also be aware that within north-west Syria we are working with key NGOs. For example, we have been equipping key NGOs on the ground to ensure that volunteers are already trained to deal with the kind of tragedy that has unfolded. As the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, pointed out, this tragedy took place where plates meet. It is a one-in-100-year event, and it happened this morning.

[Lord Bruce of Bennachie (LD)]

My Lords, the reports and pictures of this earthquake show it to be truly apocalyptic, on a scale that is probably unprecedented in our lifetime. I am grateful to the Minister for setting out the response we have made. In the past, the UK had the capacity to provide a very fast, comprehensive response and to co-ordinate international action. Do we still have that capacity, and are we able to provide leadership to get to people quickly so that we can save lives and ensure that needless, endless suffering can be relieved before it is too late?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure the noble Lord—and our response reflects this—that we have the specialists required and they have been mobilised very quickly. The noble Lord has raised the importance of co-ordination on the ground. We are working directly with the Turkish authorities, the co-ordinating body and our international partners to ensure that we identify and address what is required immediately. As I am sure the noble Lord has picked up, we were the first of seven or eight countries to respond directly; messages have also been relayed to the Turkish Government at the highest level.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, having travelled in the areas around south-east Turkey that have been affected, to the east of Diyarbakır into Mardin and Tur Abdin, where the ancient Assyrian and Chaldean communities are, I would ask the Minister not to lose sight of those very vulnerable people who are not in the towns and cities but are also deeply affected by the appalling events that the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, has described. Can the Minister tell us two things? First, in such circumstances, the UK Disasters Emergency Committee usually co-ordinates the giving of donations. Is that happening at the moment, and will the UK Government provide match funding for every penny and pound generously given by UK citizens? Secondly, given the sanctions that have been imposed on Syria, to which the noble Lord, Lord Collins, alluded, will we ensure that humanitarian needs are met regardless of any sanctions?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second point, of course, any sanction applied has provision for humanitarian support; we will certainly ensure that continues to happen. On the noble Lord’s earlier point about vulnerable communities, the challenges are of course immense. As we look at the situation in Turkey as pointed out by the noble Lord, and towards Syria—Aleppo has been impacted in a devastating way notwithstanding the devastation it had already suffered—we will seek to prioritise the distribution of support accordingly. However, it needs a level of co-ordination; that is why I have alluded to what we are doing both with the aid agencies on the ground in Turkey and with the White Helmets. On the DEC, I assure the noble Lord that one of the last actions I left for the team as I departed the Foreign Office was a full submission on the very points that the noble Lord has raised. I do not have those details with me, as this has been a very fast-evolving situation, but that is high up my agenda; I will update the House accordingly.

[Lord Sterling of Plaistow (Con)]

My Lords, it is very good news that the Minister has responded as he has so far. Do I take it for granted that the Royal Auxiliary reserves, who are wonderful people trained specifically for operations like this, are totally involved? Also, do we intend to send out a field hospital, set up with highly trained people, which would be of great use?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure my noble friend that we are looking to ensure a whole-of-government response, so that every asset will be provided to the Turkish Government, as well as to assist on the ground in Syria. As to additional support, those details are being finalised. As the requirements are made clear to us, we will deploy what is necessary to ensure that the objectives of the relief efforts can be met.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for giving us an update. He will appreciate that the magnitude of this earthquake is truly devastating and terrifying. Many in the Turkish diaspora in this country—I include myself—are personally affected by this tragedy. What support can the Government give to the diaspora here, who are desperately trying to find out what has happened to their family and friends in Turkey? Communications are hampered by the sheer scale of this disaster and the terrible weather. People are under many feet of snow; 10 densely populated cities have been affected. The diaspora here are desperate for news. What support can the Government give to the communities here trying to get more information?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure I speak for all noble Lords when I extend my condolences to the British-Turkish diaspora here, of which the noble Baroness is an exemplary part. She is using her good offices, and I welcome her direct advice and input on what more can be done. I will get back to her with further details as they evolve. My understanding is that in Turkey itself, certainly in the 10 cities impacted, the communications are still stood up and we are able to get information both in and out, but we will look at how we can strengthen some of the communication channels. If the noble Baroness can identify particular problems being encountered, and if they are in the scope of the FCDO or other government departments, we will look to assist.

[The Earl of Sandwich (CB)]

My Lords, what are we doing about aerial damage assessments? Now that we are not in the EU, I presume that we do not have access to the Copernicus satellite. How are we coping with that? Are we co-ordinating with European neighbours?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the EU has also mobilised to this effect. I assure the noble Earl that, as I said earlier, we are co-ordinating with all our international partners and, importantly, that includes members of the EU.

[Lord Kilclooney (CB)]

My Lords, the damage has been considerable in Diyarbakır in Turkey, which I have previously visited. It is right on the border with Iran. Have there been any reports of damage in Iran? If so, are we helping them?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, specifically on Iran, I will have to update the noble Lord. I am aware that the impacts have been felt further afield, particularly in parts of the Middle East. Thankfully, even in places such as Lebanon, which is a very fragile country at the moment, the impact has been limited, but we are continuing to monitor the situation. Tragically, the earthquake hit at 4 am, which was probably the worst time. I have been updated on the net effect on buildings and how they folded—what I believe is called the pancake effect, where they just collapse on each other. If that impact were felt further afield in places such as Lebanon, which is extremely fragile, it would be devastating. I will update noble Lords as details emerge on what is an evolving situation.

[Lord Hannan of Kingsclere (Con)]

My Lords, some years ago, I worked in a refugee camp along the Euphrates, very close to the epicentre. It is impossible not to be moved by the brisk, unfussy and uncomplaining way in which Turkey has handled the arrival of millions of Syrian refugees into its territory. The United Kingdom is perhaps the most engaged supporter of Syrian refugees on the borders of Syria. Can we leverage that status and transfer our aid to the Syrians who are now fleeing this second devastation?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend is correct that the UK has been and is the third-largest bilateral donor to the Syrian crisis, having committed over £3.8 billion to date, our largest ever response to a humanitarian crisis. We are supporting Turkey, Lebanon and indeed Jordan when it comes to the issue of Syrian refugees. The impact of those seeking to leave Syria from this devastation is not yet clear, but we stand ready to help those within Syria and Turkey with the support that they need. As I said, and I am sure noble Lords appreciate this, it is a situation that occurred this morning. We have responded immediately—as required—and in a co-ordinated fashion to the information that we have received, and we will continue to do so.

EU: Trade in Goods (European Affairs Committee Report)

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 2nd February 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords for their contributions to this important debate. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, that it is always good to finish on a high, if nothing else than just in giving superficial flattery to the Minister who is responding. I am truly grateful.

I assure all noble Lords that I have listened very carefully to the debate. It reflects, as I often say from this Dispatch Box, the wise insights and detailed knowledge within your Lordships’ House. We may not always agree, and this is perhaps one of those occasions where there is a difference between the Government’s perspective and many of the contributions from noble Lords. I was therefore heartened to hear the contribution of my noble friend Lord Lamont. Nevertheless, this has been an insightful, detailed debate which reflects where the Government and our country are in facing up to the challenges. I hope that many noble Lords recognise that we believe passionately in important, constructive relationships with our partners—and, I add, friends—within the European Union.

I join the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, and others, in reflecting on the valuable contributions of my noble friend Lady Couttie. She challenged me regularly on the wide brief that I have but, equally, she is missed.

I begin, as other noble Lords have, by paying tribute to my noble friend Lady Chalker. It is an honour for me to be here on this occasion to respond to her final speech. She has been an inspiring individual to me as a Minister and has demonstrated that as changes occur at the top, it is good to have consistency and continuity in a ministerial role. I regard her as one of my inspirational heroes in this respect. Seeing her in her very distinguished career as a Minister, and subsequently, as a Minister myself, there have been occasions when she has been in different parts of Africa and I have received a call saying, “Tariq, tell me what I can do, what you need? I am here to help.” That has been reflective of her contribution. I align myself totally with the tribute of my noble friend Lord Lamont. Her wise insights and in-depth experience we will all sorely miss.

However, I feel it is not the last we have heard of my noble friend Lady Chalker. Indeed, my noble friend reminded me of a conversation shared with me by Kofi Annan’s daughter. She said to me, “Lord Ahmad, Nelson Mandela, when hearing of Kofi Annan’s retirement, smiled and laughed as only Nelson Mandela would, in his usual style, and said, “Kofi, you are retiring. When will you retire from retirement?” I think that applies very much to my noble friend, for she has listed what she is seeking to do. As she departs and draws the curtain on this particular stage in the House of Lords, I know she will continue to assist with great insight, experience, passion and affection the cause of international development and the many people across the world who perhaps are not as fortunate as many in our country, and, as we have heard today, the cause of children. I look forward to hearing from her about that, and I am sure that as I continue in my role, she will also remind me of my responsibilities. My noble friend, I know I speak for the whole House when I say we wish you well, and you depart this House with our best wishes and prayers.

I am grateful to all those who have participated in this debate, and I assure the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy, that I speak for many, and that although I had only one noble friend here, others have joined me on the Front Bench. We always speak with good faith, and that has to be our intention. I also assure him that it is with exactly that principle in mind that we are engaging positively with our partners in the European Union.

I am also grateful to the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull. He has always discharged his duties with great aplomb, and we see that in this report. Many noble lords spoke about his diplomatic capability. This report follows one on a similar issue, from the noble Lord, Lord Jay, and it shows the wisdom of your Lordships in being able to align fully across the spectrum and present a report which is constructive. I assure him that the Government have engaged constructively. I thank the committee for the way in which it reviewed our responses to the 55 conclusions and recommendations in the report and our subsequent correspondence. Of course, I will reflect on this debate in detail and write where I have not been able to answer questions in the time available. I shall write to the noble Viscount, Lord Waverley, on his nine questions, rather than detain the House.

Important issues have been raised in this debate. As my noble friend Lord Lamont said, it should be forward-looking. I want to say at this juncture that notwithstanding our departure from the European Union, our relationship with the EU remains strong. It has been demonstrated at its finest through our unity of response to Russia’s illegal war in Ukraine, and that continues to be the case. I have experienced many meetings and engagements with European colleagues where we are fully aligned on the important issues and challenges that we face.

The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, reminded me not to be overly bullish in presenting a picture of the economy, and indeed our country, in terms of trade. I have reflected on his comments, and I totally accept that, as my noble friend Lord Tugendhat pointed out, collectively the EU is our largest trading partner and it is important that we have a very strong relationship. Indeed, it should not be forgotten that we are the EU’s second-largest trading partner, and a strong commercial relationship based on free trade is firmly in the interest of both sides. The noble Lords, Lord Liddle, Lord Hannay and Lord Purvis, the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, my noble friend Lord Lamont and others talked about various issues, from different perspectives at times, and what has been achieved since our departure from the European Union.

While trade in goods with the EU was worth £381.9 billion at current prices in 2016, according to the most recent ONS statistics it was worth £480.7 billion in the 12 months to September 2022. This represents an overall increase of 26%, and an increase of 9% when compared to pre-Covid levels, but I accept that there is more to be done. During this debate we have heard about the barriers and challenges that continue to be faced, which I will come on to, and it is important that we as a Government address those issues.

As my noble friend Lord Lamont reminded us, not everything that needs to be done is about Brexit. However, if I may offer a personal anecdote, I was reminded that during the 2019 election campaign, I asked my then five year-old, “What does Daddy do?” After naming various professions, he said, “Make a point and get Brexit done.” There are some personal reflections of a five year-old in the Ahmad household, which shows that general election slogans and campaign slogans work.

Our trade with the EU remains important, as I have said. Our low-tax, high-skilled economy has helped to ensure that the UK remains an attractive place to invest and grow a business. The UK has moved up the foreign direct investment global ranking since 2020 to become the highest recipient of foreign investment in Europe and the second highest in the world, second only to the US.

The Government recognise that, as the report indicated, the UK’s trading relationship with the EU has changed since our departure from the single market and the customs union. Of course, some businesses and their supply chains have been directly impacted and affected by this new operating environment, but the trade and co-operation agreement, which several noble Lords have mentioned, has played a critical role in securing UK-EU trade and encouraging inward investment. By the standards of free trade agreements, the TCA is very much cutting-edge. It is the world’s biggest zero-tariff, zero-quota free trade agreement and the first of its kind signed by the EU. For example, it includes provisions and sectors of UK comparative advantage such as services and digital trade. It also safeguards the regulatory freedoms that are now enabling the UK to benefit from Brexit.

On the issue of implementation, which the noble Lord, Lord Liddle, and others pointed to, the overall agreement is functioning well. All specialised committees responsible for monitoring implementation have met at least twice. The agreement’s wider network of oversight functions, including the UK-EU Parliamentary Partnership Assembly and the Civil Society Forum, have been established.

However, I accept that there remain a number of important issues that need to be fully worked through, particularly the current discussions between the EU and the UK about EU programmes such as Horizon Europe. I take on board the importance of reaching a satisfactory conclusion through these discussions, for both sides. I assure noble Lords that through direct engagement via the FCDO—as noble Lords will know, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary is leading on engagement concerning the Northern Ireland protocol—Ministers are routinely raising other issues of UK interest. Again, I will take back the many detailed and specific issues that have been raised by noble Lords today.

I shall share some of the other formal structures that have operated within the implementation of the TCA. We have seen exchange updates on major legislative developments, such as the discussion at the goods and trade specialised committee on the EU’s Chips Act and the carbon border adjustment mechanism. We have seen accelerated delivery of the TCA provisions, such as our exchanges with the Commission at the specialised committee on energy regarding electricity trading arrangements and co-operation in the North Sea on renewables. There are additional points but if I may, in the interests of time, I will respond in more detail to the noble Earl, Lord Kinnoull, in writing and put a copy in the Library.

We are exploiting the huge renewable potential of the region, which we also believe will boost European energy production and enhance our energy security, and of course that of Europe. Recent events have demonstrated the importance of that.

I will now address some of the points made in the report, and by noble Lords in this debate, about the implementation of the trade and co-operation agreement. First, on the impact of red tape on UK traders, particularly SMEs, which several noble Lords talked about, I share the view expressed by the noble Viscount about the importance of SMEs in being part and parcel—the real backbone—of the British economy. Various other noble Lords raised this issue, including the noble Lords, Lord Liddle and Lord Hannay.

I will list what the Government are doing specifically to support SMEs. The Government have provided £20 million via the SME Brexit support fund to help SMEs adjust to new customs, rules of origin and VAT rules when trading with the EU. HMRC has also produced a useful step-by-step guide to help customers understand the process for importing goods into the UK; this can be found on the Government’s website. HMRC’s customs grant scheme paid out more than £69 million to support businesses with recruitment, employee training and IT to help with customs declarations. All the other work that we have done around business readiness is also available to SMEs.

The refreshed export strategy will focus on the range of barriers to exporting reported by SMEs directly, from costs and lack of knowledge to constraints in capacity and lack of contacts. It will target interventions across the exporter journey, as part of a new single integrated ecosystem of export support, built around the new export support service that was launched in October.

The SME Brexit support fund, which was mentioned, was intended to be closed and has now closed as scheduled. The fund was offered by the Government and granted up to £2,000 per organisation between March and June 2021 to support SMEs to adjust to new customs, rules of origin and VAT rules when trading with the EU. To date, approximately £8.4 million has been offered to businesses, enabling more than 4,100 businesses to pay for practical support, including professional advice. This is important, and I assure noble Lords that I welcome insights, experience and practical examples, as were provided in this debate, about where noble Lords feel the Government should continue to focus.

SPS was raised by many noble Lords, including the noble Lords, Lord Liddle, Lord Kennedy, Lord Hannay and Lord Purvis. There are of course legitimate concerns around the EU’s application of SPS rules, and the Government very much share them. It is clear that the UK continues to maintain among the highest standards of biosecurity and food safety in the world. I assure noble Lords, including the noble Earl—I note the report and the issues he highlighted—that we will continue to work through the SPS specialised committee to challenge the disproportionate restrictions on high-quality UK exports, such as seed potatoes and certain shellfish.

Noble Lords also raised the steps that the Government are taking to safeguard the UK’s biosecurity in the absence of the remaining SPS controls. Goods from the EU are of course currently subject to full customs requirements. However, due to the staged introduction of controls, which several noble Lords pointed to, some controls are yet to be brought in for EU products. These are safety and security declarations for standard goods, as well as certification and check requirements for non-high risk SPS products. High-risk SPS goods are subject to certification, pre-notification and checks. As the target operating model is prepared for publication, so too will be the dates for bringing in the remaining controls on EU goods.

The noble Lords, Lord Liddle and Lord Hannay, talked about dynamic alignment. As we proposed during the TCA negotiations, we remain open to an SPS agreement with the EU based on regulatory equivalence, given both sides’ records and commitment to high SPS standards. As highlighted in the committee’s report, the EU has agreements of this kind with other third countries, such as New Zealand. But we are clear that we cannot accept an SPS agreement based on dynamic alignment to EU rules, like the EU-Swiss model, which several noble Lords pointed to.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

Does that clear position apply to all parts of the United Kingdom, including Northern Ireland?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, we are in ongoing discussions with EU partners on Northern Ireland issues. I will not answer specifically but, as I have said repeatedly, the important thing is that our discussions on the Northern Ireland protocol ensure the workings and efficiencies of both single markets, considering the impact not just on the European Union single market but on the UK single market, which clearly is not working under the current agreements.

Another issue outstanding is the continuing absence of a number of envisaged technical working groups. The trade and co-operation agreement provides for regulatory co-operation in a number of sectors that the EU has not yet established, including organics, motor vehicles and medicines.

I have already covered the update on the UK’s future border control regime and the targeted operating model in my answers to previous comments. As I said, I will provide a more detailed assessment of the questions raised by the noble Earl in a letter.

Turning to the Northern Ireland protocol, on which the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, just interjected, I can assure the noble Lords, Lord Rogan and Lord Hannay, that talks are ongoing with the European Commission to solve the real problems arising from the implementation of the protocol. Having been part of some of the conversations, I can assure noble Lords that conversations currently taking place with the European Union and the Commission, and specifically the talks between my right honourable friend and Commissioner Šefčovič, are taking place in a very constructive and collaborative spirit, and it remains our hope and preference that the talks conclude with tangible progress that ultimately addresses the concerns of all communities within Northern Ireland.

On the issue of retained law—I will come on to the creative industries and tourism in a moment—the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, was of course correct. I will write to her specifically. There are wonderful briefs available, and one seeks to have a working knowledge when responding to debates, but on some of her specific questions I will write to her. However, His Majesty’s Government have processes in place to monitor the economic and business impacts of regulatory divergence between the UK and the EU and whether that divergence is UK or EU-led. Analytical frameworks and guidance have been issued to departments when making assessments of regulatory changes to help us understand any potential impacts. The Government have also published a comprehensive list of retained EU law, which will be available at the retained EU law dashboard. I know this will be the subject of various discussions but, as I said to the noble Baroness, I will write specifically on the questions she raised.

A point was raised about tourism by the noble Baroness, Lady Wheatcroft. I accept that challenges are posed on free movement, et cetera, but it is interesting to look at some of the specific figures. In 2015 tourism numbers into the UK were 35.1 million. In 2022 it was 29.7 million. However, the forecast from VisitBritain for 2023 looks at a return to around the 35 million mark. Of course, there could be improvements—I totally accept the point that the noble Baroness raised—and there are issues that need to be addressed because of the changes that many companies within the tourism industry now face, including on issues of workers and ensuring that sufficient services can be provided, but I certainly take encouragement from VisitBritain’s figures, which present a positive picture.

In conclusion, I once again thank all noble Lords for their detailed insights; some specific questions have been raised. Turning very quickly to the creative industries, as I promised—they have not been forgotten—I was asked quite specifically about what has been done. I heard the valuable contributions made by the noble Viscount, Lord Stansgate, the noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, and the noble Earl, Lord Clancarty. We of course recognise that it has changed for workers in the creative sector in the EU, who have had to adapt to new requirements. I have heard very clearly the specific challenges raised by noble Lords in this respect.

Since the end of the transition period, the Government have worked closely with industry to help UK artists adapt to this new regulatory environment, including by engaging with EU member states on their entry requirements for touring artists. I am informed that the vast majority of member states have confirmed that UK musicians and performers do not need visas or work permits for some short-term touring. I know that the Government looked specifically at providing support; some work was done over the summer looking at hauliers and what could be achieved for their processes. I will look at the specific issues that noble Lords have highlighted and talk to my colleagues across government to see what other specific issues and areas we can address directly. I assure noble Lords that the Government are seized of and recognise the challenges that noble Lords have highlighted in that sector. I also take on board the issues of transition in zoo visits and how it has led to educational insights for both shadow Ministers and Ministers on some of the challenges that specific industries and companies are facing.

In welcoming the report and our continued co-operation with the committee, we look forward to seeing how we can continue to engage constructively with it by taking on its recommendations and reporting, as has been demonstrated today. I end where I started: stressing the importance of our co-operation, partnership and friendship with the European Union. Sometimes it is immensely challenging to demonstrate the importance of that but the war in Ukraine has done just that. The European Union is, and will remain, a major geostrategic ally, partner and friend of the United Kingdom. The UK’s departure from the European Union was always going to present challenges that would take time to work through. However, it is important that we address those challenges collectively, collaboratively and pragmatically. I assure noble Lords that His Majesty’s Government are committed to addressing those issues through dialogue, wherever possible, and are committed to a respectful and mature partnership and friendship with the EU that benefits all the people of both Europe and the United Kingdom.

Global Health Policies

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 30th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we are advocating for a joined-up agenda across the high-level meetings on universal health coverage, tuberculosis and pandemic preparedness and response. Working through the UN General Assembly and the World Health Organization, and with our partners, we are promoting a co-ordinated approach that strengthens health systems to achieve universal health coverage, improve global health security and end preventable deaths of mothers, babies and children.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the latter part of the Minister’s Answer is precisely what this Question about, because the high-level meeting is an opportunity to make progress on ending preventable deaths and strengthening health systems, both of which are key priorities of the Government. However, that will be achieved only if we have global leadership and global leaders supporting it. One way to build momentum would be for the United Kingdom to provide leadership and signal now that either the Prime Minister or the Foreign Secretary will attend. Can the Minister commit to that now?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I think I would cause some concern to the diary secretaries of the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary if I were to do that. However, I take the point that the noble Lord has raised: in any international forum, it is important that we see senior leadership and senior members of His Majesty’s Government representing the United Kingdom’s interests. I pay tribute to the noble Lord’s work on issues of nutrition, et cetera. I am sure he will agree that we have continued to stand firm on issues such as vaccinations, therapeutics and diagnostics—that is the Government’s approach, which I believe is the right approach. We also underline that with strong support, including for the Global Fund and in areas such as Gavi, to ensure that issues of health and vaccination are kept at the forefront of the discussions within international health structures.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, my friends at Age International have reminded me that access to healthcare in developing countries is even more difficult for older people, who are more vulnerable. The number of older people in developing countries is increasing rapidly. That is all acknowledged in the paper that the FCDO has produced. So what will the Minister do to ensure that the UN high-level meeting takes account specifically of the needs of older people?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, there are many vulnerable groups across developing nations who need our assistance—that is why global health structures are important. Our approach has been to target specific levels of support to different communities to ensure workable solutions on the ground. For example, we work with partner Governments and multilateral partners to strengthen health systems for all, including the elders. We are increasing support for women giving birth in health facilities; for example, in Nepal, that has risen from 9% in 2001 to 80% in 2022, specifically for young mothers. We are working in Nigeria to help a large uplift in support for vulnerable communities there. We are also adopting new technologies to ensure that we can deliver healthcare; we have a telemedicine pilot for reaching remote communities, including elders, in Brazil. Those are just some examples, and I will be happy to discuss with the noble Lord other examples of what we do across the globe.

[Lord Fowler (CB)]

My Lords, do we not need to recognise also how things have changed—particularly with HIV and AIDS, where the position has changed from there being no cure or any way of dealing with them to, today, it being perfectly possible to deal with them effectively? Is it therefore not totally distressing to find that the latest figures show that 658,000 deaths last year were AIDS-related and that these included around 250,000 women and 100,000 children under 14? Are those figures not disgraceful, and are they not a further explanation to us of what needs to be done in international co-operation to try to expand care for this terrible pandemic, which has done so much damage over the years?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, I pay tribute to my noble friend’s work in this area. I agree with him: tackling issues such as AIDS has changed from many years ago to where we are today; it is preventable and there are cures available. We need to work with our international partners and—coming back to the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, about the importance of international health architecture—to ensure that those most vulnerable communities get the support they need. That was why I was delighted that we committed a further £1 billion to the Global Fund, which, as my noble friend knows, is focused, among other things, on AIDS. We need to work on specific outcomes on the ground, particularly for young women and, again, on preventable deaths—there are babies who die of AIDS, and this can be avoided.

[Baroness Manzoor (Con)]

My Lords, I very much welcome both the Government’s leadership and the money they are putting in through the Global Fund. But my noble friend will know that one of the key elements of reducing maternal deaths, neonatal deaths and perinatal deaths is education—education, education, education—particularly for young girls and women. Without this, we will fail. Can my noble friend the Minister say what we are doing to try to improve this particular aspect through the Global Fund as well?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I thank my noble friend for raising that important issue. The UK Government’s strategy for international development highlights our commitment to work towards preventable deaths for mothers, babies and children. Within that, we are building strong health systems. There are also important issues of sexual and reproductive health that need to be addressed, as well as good nutrition—a point the noble Lord, Lord Collins, has often raised. We also need to invest in research and innovation. We are doing all the above and, yes, investing in education as well. Our policy over many years, which I know all noble Lords support, has been education for every girl around the world irrespective; and quality education is a key part of that.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the strategy for international development, published on 16 May 2022, states categorically that funding for women and girls will be restored to pre-cuts levels. Two days later, on 18 May 2022, the Foreign Secretary told the International Development Committee in the Commons that this meant

“£745 million, which is the same as what it was in 2019-20. That is restored immediately”

in 2022-23. That was an unequivocal promise to women and girls in support. Can the Minister repeat that that promise is being upheld?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Lord is aware, we have not yet announced our full settlement in terms of our ODA for the next two years.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

It is this year.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I meant this current year and next year. That is why I can assure the noble Lord that within the scope of the decisions being made, the issue of girls and women is a key priority, and rightly so.

[Baroness Deech (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister feel at all inhibited in calls for his international leadership by the fact that our own health system is failing in so many ways? In particular, we are drawing in nurses and doctors from countries that need them much more than we do.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness raises a point about health recruitment. We are committed to working with the likes of the World Health Organization, which is governed by a strict UK practice for international recruitment, including a ban on direct recruitment for countries that the World Health Organization deems to have the weakest health systems. I agree with the noble Baroness, notwithstanding what I have just said, We work with particular countries to ensure that those who are recruited from those countries have an opportunity to return. For example, in India, we are looking at the opportunity to take advantage of studying medicine in the UK and working within the NHS in the UK; but within the scope of that, after the practical and academic experience, the individuals can return to healthcare in India. These are the innovative ways in which we need to work with other countries to ensure that we get the kind of universal healthcare coverage that is required.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

The noble Lord, Lord Fowler, gave the figures for AIDS. Does my noble friend not agree that a similar number of people are dying every year from malaria? Most of them are children, and most of them are in Africa. What prospects of real progress can he hold out for us in that context?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, partly, I can answer in exactly the same way as I answered the noble Lord, Lord Fowler. The Global Fund, as my noble friend will be aware, targets three specific areas: HIV, tuberculosis and malaria. The United Kingdom has committed £1 billion for 2022-25.

Russia: Sanctions

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 30th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Craig of Radley]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the impact of the United Kingdom’s sanctions on Russia’s operational capabilities against Ukraine.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, Russia is struggling militarily and is isolated internationally. It faces enormous replenishment challenges following major equipment losses and high rates of munition expenditure. The United Kingdom and its partners are weakening Russia’s military by sanctioning key defence organisations and banning the export of critical technologies. Our designations of individuals and military entities undermines Russia’s war effort, addressing alleged war crimes. We will continue to hold Mr Putin to account and stand up for freedom and human rights.

[Lord Craig of Radley (CB)]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for answering the Question, although I am not sure that the Ukrainians feel as confident as he is that the Russians are hampered by the sanctions. Government and Select Committee reports stress that sanctions are effective if they have clear objectives, well-defined demands and an exit strategy. Is His Majesty’s Government following that wise advice?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, our sanctions policy, first and foremost, is very much focused on addressing all the issues that I have already outlined and, of course, reflects the very points that the noble and gallant Lord raised. In this regard, we are having an impact on the Russian military capability and on the Russian economy. He mentioned the Ukrainian perspective; we are working hand in glove with the Ukrainians and are in regular contact with them. Only last week, I attended a G7 meeting virtually, where we were looking at energy issues, focusing on Ukrainian need, and Ukrainian Foreign Minister Kuleba was also present.

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

My Lords, to what extent are sanctions against Russia being evaded and what can we do to prevent that?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the best way to ensure that sanctions are working effectively, as I have said every time that we issue a sanction on any individual or organisation, is to ensure that it is done in co-ordination with our key partners. That includes working very much together with the United States, Canada and the European Union. It is also about ensuring that where we see an issue of circumvention being highlighted, for example, we work with key partners such as the G7, and I assure my noble friend that we are doing so.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, can I take that a little further? Enforcement is absolutely key, so can the Minister assure us that we have the capability, working with our allies, to ensure proper enforcement of sanctions? Can he also tell us what message he believes that it sends to Ukraine and our allies when our own Treasury helped one of Putin’s most notorious warmongers to evade sanctions?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I will start with the noble Lord’s second point, without going into the specifics of the case. He will be aware that there is a right to legal redress, as is right in our own sanctions policy as opposed to those imposed by other countries on our parliamentarians. My noble friend Lady Penn also dealt with that issue and His Majesty’s Treasury is very much seized with it. We will continue to work with international partners, particularly the G7, to ensure the effective implementation of sanctions because there are undoubtedly ways of overcoming them. There will be new and novel ways to circumvent every sanction imposed and we need to ensure, in a co-ordinated fashion, that we address those.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, as the Minister knows, we have supported this additional capability and the sanctions, but he also knows of my concerns that they are being offset. Regrettably, Russia is not as isolated as the Minister asserted earlier. I hope he will agree that after what we thought was an extremely successful state visit by the President of South Africa, it was troubling to see the red carpet laid out recently in Pretoria for Sergei Lavrov. When the Foreign Minister of South Africa was asked if she would repeat that country’s position of calling for a withdrawal by Russia from Ukraine, she said that it was simplistic and infantile. Will the Minister please agree that the joint naval exercises between South Africa, China and Russia on 24 February are not in our strategic interests, and are we making that message clear?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the assessment of the Foreign Minister of South Africa was not something I agree with. We are of course watching the situation closely and I agree with the assessment of the noble Lord. When you see one of our key partners in Africa, which is also a member of the Commonwealth, carrying out such exercises and welcoming the Russian Foreign Minister, that is a cause for concern. I assure the noble Lord that we have made our views clear.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister not agree that action to implement sanctions successfully has to be collective and not separate? What exists in the way of collective machinery among the main partners in those sanctions to ensure that the large numbers of people working in Moscow, Beijing and Tehran to evade such sanctions do not succeed?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree. That is why, as I have said, we are working in close co-ordination with our key partners. Where we see circumvention we are acting in a co-ordinated fashion, including through the G7, to ensure that those issues can be addressed. Sanctions are there for a reason: to prevent certain individuals and organisations continuing their work, by penalising them quite directly. It is our job as part of British diplomacy, along with our key partners, to ensure that this message is heard around the world.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My Lords, sometimes one of the unintended consequences of sanctions is that they affect opposition movements and civil society in-country. Is my noble friend the Minister aware of any of those unintended consequences, and how has the sanctions regime been adjusted to avoid them?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend is correct to say that, when we impose sanctions, our argument or challenge is not with the ordinary citizens of countries. That is why we have worked with international partners. For example, there is a specific humanitarian carve-out on sanctions imposed internationally which allows essential humanitarian aid to be provided.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, now that Ukraine is to receive tanks, it is seeking further fighter jets. What is His Majesty’s Government’s attitude to that request?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I will not go into specifics, but the noble Lord will be aware that we work in a very co-ordinated fashion. We work very closely with the Ukrainian Government to ensure that their military requests and priorities are not only understood but that we work in co-ordination to best support them. Indeed, the UK was the first to offer tanks, which resulted in other countries following suit. It is important that we act in a co-ordinated manner.

[Lord Skidelsky (CB)]

My Lords, the list of individuals and entities currently sanctioned stands at 3,778 worldwide. It grows every year, but we are never told who is removed from it. Will the Minister give us the assurance that the Government will publish a list of those who have been removed from sanctions since 2001, so that the House is better able to assess the efficacy of the sanctions regime in meeting its objectives?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord will recall that, when we were taking through the sanctions and anti-money laundering legislation, part of that was to ensure a proper and structured review by the Government of those sanctioned. That is part of our legislative process. Providing details of every single individual or organisation would create more work for the Government than necessary, and the cost would be uneconomical. However, within our sanctions policy, when someone or an organisation first has a sanction imposed, there is a way for them to appeal and challenge it. Those sanctions are reviewed on a regular basis.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, notwithstanding what the noble Lord has been able to tell us about the efficacy of sanctions impacting Russian GDP, will he return to the question of circumvention which has been raised with him? In particular, he will have noted that Chinese currency is being used to break regulations and sanctions on currency rules. He will have also seen the sale of Shahed missiles from Iran to Russia, which are being used to pummel and pound the infrastructure in Ukraine, terrorising the people there. How are we using Magnitsky sanctions to further identify those who broker such deals?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, there is a series of sanctions. The noble Lord spoke of the Magnitsky sanctions. We have exercised that type of sanction, particularly where we see human rights abuses taking place. That will continue as part of what we seek to do. On the issue of circumvention, he specifically raised how currencies are used, and the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, has also raised this. It is important that we use our good offices and work with key markets to ensure that it is made clear that circumvention is an abuse of laws of countries. The sanctions are imposed for a reason—to ensure, in the case of Ukraine, that those responsible for this illegal war are held to account.

Afghanistan: Women

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 26th January 2023 Lords Chamber

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth]

To ask His Majesty’s Government what steps they have taken to work with the governments of Islamic countries to persuade the Taliban to allow women in Afghanistan to work with non-governmental organisations.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the ban on Afghan women working for NGOs is totally unacceptable. I have spoken to my counterparts from across the Islamic world to agree that we must convince the Taliban that these edicts are un-Islamic and contravene all global norms and values. I am encouraged that the Organisation of Islamic Cooperation is considering initiatives to address this very problem. I shall of course continue to seek practical solutions and work with Muslim-country partners to ensure that Afghan women can continue to work and, importantly, benefit from lifesaving aid.

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth (CB)]

I thank the Minister for that Answer. When this issue was raised last week by the noble Lord, Lord Singh, the Minister suggested that there might be a way of bending the present rules to allow this to happen. Does he agree that it is essential that some long-term solution for this is found? Could he indicate what work is going on in relation to Pakistan, Saudi Arabia and Qatar—all countries that have, in the past, had good relationships with the Taliban? Would he use all his much-respected powers of persuasion in relation to these countries to get a long-term solution to this?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble and right reverend Lord is right to raise this issue. As I alluded to, I find it unimaginable—I put it that way—that the Taliban, with their rigidity and coercion, will back-track on the edicts that they have issued. However, as reported by the Deputy Secretary-General to the UN, we have seen workarounds on ensuring that support on key issues such as health and education is being provided. The noble and right reverend Lord is correct that we are working on that. I assure him of my good offices and those of others. We are working closely with the Islamic countries. I was in Pakistan in October 2022 and I raised this issue directly when I met the Foreign Minister of Pakistan, in December. My colleague and right honourable friend Andrew Mitchell met the Pakistani Prime Minister recently at a conference in Geneva. I have recently engaged with Oman, Qatar, Algeria, Tunisia, Morocco, Egypt, Indonesia and Pakistan.

[Baroness Hussein-Ece (LD)]

My Lords, I underline what the Minister said: banning women and girls from education and work has no place in Afghanistan or any other Islamic country. It is important that people understand that.

I want to take the Minister back to the meeting that the Deputy Secretary-General of the United Nations, Amina Mohammed, had directly with the Taliban when she led an important delegation last week. One of the outcomes is the prospect of a conference in March for Islamic countries to come together to raise these issues and try to influence the Taliban, because of course they do not speak with one voice. What has the UK’s engagement been with that? Would the United States engage with it as well, using its influence in the Middle East? What practical steps can the UK Government take to ensure that it happens?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I believe that that is a good idea. I have engaged directly with the Deputy Secretary-General on the concept. It will be held in the margins of the Commission on the Status of Women conferences that take place in New York. However, I also support, as does the Foreign Secretary, the strong suggestion that it be held within the region to allow for a greater focus on the rights of women and girls, not just in Afghanistan but across the Islamic world, including the issue that noble Lords have often rightly debated: the current plight of women and girls in Iran.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon (Lab)]

My Lords, this is the third time that we have discussed this issue in the last week, and I think that indicates how strongly your Lordships’ House feels about it. I take the opportunity to thank the Minister for his responses, which we broadly welcome; we are grateful that he is involved in this on behalf of the British Government.

The Minister has spoken about engagement with Islamic countries in south Asia and across the Middle East. He will understand how important it is that we work multilaterally across all countries to encourage the Taliban and do everything that we can to reverse this policy. He has mentioned that he has engaged with Deputy Secretary-General Amina Mohammed regarding this conference. What more can we do to support her in her efforts? She could be a guiding light for all of us in trying to reverse this dreadful and appalling policy.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I thank the noble Baroness for her kind remarks. This policy is draconian and has no basis in any society, and that includes the Islamic world; that has to be made clear. I assure her that it is not just the Islamic world that we have engaged with, but there has to be a particular focus there.

The Taliban have not budged an inch; if anything, they have gone into more aggressive and abhorrent territory. We have seen the ban on girls’ education, along with the recent ban on women’s participation in NGOs. At the moment they have not gone further than that, but the situation on the ground is very challenging and testing. We are of course working with the UN and with international partners, including the likes of the United States and the European Union. It is important that we send a comprehensive, multilateral message to the Taliban that their actions will be taken very seriously.

As I am being candid, although I think we will not see the Taliban pulling back any time soon, I think the importance of delivering humanitarian aid and of women’s health and education should be paramount, and we need to look at practical solutions. In that, the Islamic world is going to be key.

[Baroness Altmann (Con)]

My Lords, I commend my noble friend on all the work he is doing in this area. I know how dedicated he is to trying to make improvements wherever he can. Will he join me in commending also the bravery of many of the women across the Middle East, and in other parts of the world, who are standing up and trying to protect the rights of women in those countries?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I absolutely join my noble friend in that. It is important that we see the representation of women across all parts of the world, including the Islamic world, coming to the fore. I am very much encouraged by seeing Ministers being appointed in Qatar and, more recently, in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia. It is important that their message is delivered as well, because their sheer presence demonstrably shows that the erroneous interpretation and narrative of the Taliban is fundamentally flawed—it is wrong.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, does the Minister agree that a doubly persecuted group in Afghanistan, and among those who have fled Afghanistan, is Hazara women? Many of them have been judges, lawyers or journalists. They have suffered grievously at the hands of the Taliban and continue to do so. Yesterday, a new report was launched here in Parliament by the All-Party Parliamentary Group on Hazaras. I want to follow up a point made by the noble Baroness, Lady Smith. The report includes a number of recommendations about what the UK can do. Will the Minister undertake to read that report and respond to the recommendations that have been made to the UK Government?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, perhaps I can go one step better. I am aware of the meeting that took place. First and foremost, I invite the noble Lord, as well as the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, who I know is also involved, to have a direct meeting with me. I have engaged with the Hazara community’s representatives here in the UK. While we talk about women’s rights, it is also important that we do not lose sight of minority rights within Afghanistan, which are also being suppressed by the draconian Taliban.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

My Lords, we have a virtual contribution from the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, is not the lesson we learned from both America’s humiliating withdrawal from Vietnam and, more recently, ours from Afghanistan that foreign interventions which seek to impose our will on others of a different cultural heritage rarely work, and that the wise man seeks a more subtle approach to intervention? In the case of Afghanistan, subtlety demands the use of interlocutors who seek to help, advise, understand, engage and influence but not chastise. Those are very Christian principles. Condemnation and isolation simply will not work.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first and foremost, I do not think the Taliban will understand the language of gentle persuasion. They are an abhorrent stain on the Islamic world; that is not my assessment but the assessment of many countries across that part of the world. Where I agree with the noble Lord is that we should explore all avenues to ensure that, whatever levers are at our disposal, and working with key partners who have the necessary influence, we change the trajectory that is currently faced across Afghanistan, particularly given the plight of women and girls.

[Lord Kamall (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend the Minister say what analysis the FCDO has done of the Taliban’s emerging or nascent and evolving foreign policy, if any, to be able to identify certain levers and pressure points that it could use to try to nudge the Taliban into solving this issue, which we want to be solved?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, that is why we are working closely with partners across the Islamic world to identify and use those levers effectively.

[Lord Singh of Wimbledon (CB)]

My Lords, the Taliban rely on a very extreme interpretation of dated Middle Eastern culture. Does the Minister agree that, if religion is to be a force for peace rather than the main cause of conflict, all religions must embrace the equality and dignity of women, and remove all attempts at propagating the superiority of some and negative attitudes to others?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I totally agree with the noble Lord about those who follow a faith, whatever it is. To use just three examples, there is the status of mother Mary within the Christian faith, the status of Hazrat Khadija, the holy Prophet’s wife in Islam, and the status within the Hindu religion where you often hear the chant of “Jai mata ji ki” referring to mothers. The status of women is clear in every faith and it is important, as the noble Lord says, that it becomes pivotal to our discussions.