Sanctions

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 1st March 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, these Benches also welcome the proposals and will work constructively with the Government to see them properly enforced. I also commend the Minister for the conscientious way he carries out his duties and his contact with the Front Benches—it is appreciated.

Last week, I was in Baghdad and then Beirut, where wounds of conflict are still not fully healed and where there was palpable shock at the grotesque and wanton destruction inflicted by the now pariah regime of Vladimir Putin and his desire to crush and subjugate a democratic European nation. Within Ukraine, areas I have visited and neighbourhoods of people I have met and know are being systematically targeted in premeditated and gross violations of international law and human rights norms. Will the UK fund and prepare a team of expert investigators and jurists to support the collection of evidence for pursuing human rights violations in The Hague against the Putin regime?

It was a solemn but nevertheless proud moment yesterday when President Zelensky’s party, Sluha Narodu, became an affiliate member of the Alliance of Liberals and Democrats for Europe, the sister party of us in this House. It draws attention to the fact that the democrats and President Zelensky in particular are now a beacon of democracy and hope in this continent. The president of the General Assembly of the UN, Abdulla Shahid, said yesterday that Russia’s actions are

“an affront to the founders of this organization and everything it stands for.”

The challenge ahead is immense. The Government need to continue to raise their game, and we will work with them in so doing.

The Government’s Statement indicated that the humanitarian assistance was £100 million of ODA and guarantees of up to $500 million in development bank loans. The UK does not provide development bank loans, so I assume this will be done through the World Bank. Last year, the Government cut contributions to the World Bank development bank by 25% and I do not think there is an increase to the Government’s 0.5% cap on international development assistance. Can the Minister confirm that support for those who are suffering in other conflict zones, such as Yemen, will not be squeezed in order to provide much-needed support for Ukraine?

The Government have acted to expand the visa scheme for those seeking refuge and safety in the UK but, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, indicated and as this House very clearly indicated yesterday, we are not happy that the Government was restrictive. More needs to be done in this field.

We welcome the draft economic crime Bill to complement this work but have major concerns that the lack of resources provided to the NCA, the CPS and Companies House, to ensure that existing laws are enforced, will not be reversed. This new legislation will require new resources to ensure that measures are robustly enforced. Can the Minister commit to this? We should use the laws we have in place now to take action and ensure law enforcement are given the resources immediately to do so.

The Statement indicated that we would be moving on Belarus sanctions “in the coming weeks”. I appeal to the Minister. The Belarus regime is now fully complicit with the Russian regime in this conflict, and therefore it is obvious that the actions against Russia should now apply to Belarus. Here at home, can the Government make sure that there is urgent action to ensure that enablers who have supported the oligarchs will not be able to profit from any delay to the bringing forward of new legislation? There is an energy carve-out in the SWIFT restrictions and the banking restrictions. Can the Government use urgent anti-avoidance measures now in the City of London to ensure that lawyers, accountants and financiers will not profit from any delay before legislation is implemented?

Finally, the response of the EU, the US and the UK and others around the world has shown that we, working in co-operation and partnership, stand against illegal aggression and the increasingly desperate narrative of misinformation and disinformation from the Kremlin. We need immediacy and urgency in our actions here at home to support the call of the President of the United Nations General Assembly yesterday to return to peace.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I first thank both noble Lords for their strong support for the Government’s position. Indeed, I thank all noble Lords who have shown without any hesitation full support for the position that the Government are taking. As I said before, this is the position of a united United Kingdom, and I am grateful for the support.

I thank the noble Lord for his kind remarks. However, as I have said before, it is important to respond by saying that the challenges we may face as Ministers, shadow Ministers or in your Lordships’ House pale into insignificance when we see the challenges faced by the Ukrainian people. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Collins, about the exemplary way in which President Zelensky is conducting himself. If there is a great example of modern-day leadership, he very much epitomises that. Earlier today, on my return from Geneva last night, I—like other noble Lords, I am sure—heard his very emotional address to Members of the European Union Parliament. It was not a scripted speech; he was speaking from the heart and reflecting the sentiments of the Ukrainian people. I thank the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and the noble Lord, Lord Purvis.

I know that the noble Baroness, Lady Northover, was also travelling over the weekend. We worked on a particular issue and I am grateful for the information she provided, which allowed us to expedite a particular issue in response to the Ukrainian crisis.

On the issues that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised, first, on the issue of the ICC prosecutor Karim Khan, yesterday while I was in Geneva I received a call from him. Today, to quote the statement he issued, he expressed his concerns,

“echoing those of world leaders and citizens of the world alike, over the events unfolding in Ukraine. Today, I wish to announce that I have decided to proceed with opening an investigation into the Situation in Ukraine”.

Of course, I assure both noble Lords that we will be co-operating with the ICC.

On the issue of the financial systems and other sanctions that have been announced, today has been a busy and rightfully important day when it comes to the United Kingdom’s response. If I may seek the House’s indulgence, we have seen announcements from the Home Secretary, the Transport Secretary, and indeed further announcements from the Prime Minister.

This is a fluid situation, so I express my apologies, as things are happening and we are trying to update. Events on the ground are extremely serious; reports are now coming in that the Russian army is moving forward on Kyiv. We are monitoring that very closely, working across government and, I assure both noble Lords, with all partners, including, importantly, our European partners. As noble Lords will be aware, my right honourable friend the Prime Minister is visiting Poland today, as well as Estonia, which underlines our commitment to work directly with our European partners but also the importance of the NATO defence alliance. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister is in regular contact with President Zelensky.

Today we have also made further regulations that introduce new measures that prohibit financial transactions with the Central Bank of the Russian Federation, the Russian Ministry of Finance and the Russian National Wealth Fund. These have been laid—I understand the usual channels will be in touch—and we will work through the appropriate debates on this later in the week.

My right honourable friend the Home Secretary— I gave this assurance to your Lordships’ House on Friday, when we had a debate on Ukraine—has made further announcements from the Home Office. Contingency plans are now fully effective, and she introduced new measures today, which were announced in the House of Commons, and has established an expansive Ukrainian family scheme. The scheme will be free, and those joining their family will be granted leave for an initial period of 12 months. Within this, they will be able to work in the UK and also access public funds. Secondly, there is the establishment of a humanitarian sponsorship pathway, which will open a route to the UK for Ukrainians who may not have family ties with the UK but who are able to match with individuals, charities, businesses and community groups in support of their presence here. Those who come under this scheme will also be granted leave to remain for an initial period of 12 months and be able to work and access public services. I mention those few key bullet points to highlight that substantial progress is being made.

On the issue of continuing support, which the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, raised, I assure him that we are going through the final rounds of our support for particular areas of the world, including Afghanistan, which I have been involved with. We remain very much focused on the humanitarian situations around the world, and I look forward to an update from him on his recent visits to both the Lebanon and Iraq.

My right honourable friend the Prime Minister has also announced additional funding. A release is being worked through, but I can share with your Lordships’ House that we initially stood up immediate emergency funding in the region of £8 million, but that has been increased substantially, and the overall economic and humanitarian support package now stands at £220 million, and £120 million of that is specific to humanitarian support.

I was in Geneva yesterday and met Filippo Grandi, who heads the UNHCR, and today my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary also met him. An announcement is being made by OCHA through Martin Griffiths of a funding requirement and a new ask for funds to respond to this emergency. Of course, the UK is working very closely on that, and my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary reiterated that in her meeting in Geneva today.

On the issue of the economic crime Bill, I listened carefully to what the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, said. The sentiments of your Lordships’ House have been reflected in how we have worked on it, and I am sure that noble Lords welcome the commitment that the Government have given in the Bill. I hear what the noble Lord says about Belarus, and we have increased the resource of our sanctions team. As the Sanctions Minister, I can speak from direct insight on how hard the team is working to ensure that we meet directly the requirements. There is still more to be done in this respect.

We campaigned very strongly on the issue of SWIFT, which led to the specific first step taken to exclude certain banks and institutions from the SWIFT payment system, and we continue to work on that.

We have also made an important announcement in the area of transport. Today, we have implemented a set of new transport sanctions which will prohibit Russian ships and other ships specified by the Secretary of State from entering ports in the United Kingdom. I believe that we are the first country to introduce such specific restrictions.

On defence co-operation, President Zelensky and Foreign Minister Kuleba have acknowledged that we have been one of the first countries to offer support in the form of military equipment required by Ukraine, and we continue to work in that respect.

My final point to noble Lords on the Front Bench and across your Lordships’ House is that the situation within Ukraine is very difficult. Yesterday, I met various humanitarian agencies that are working on the ground, some of which I will not name for their protection. They are still very much concerned with the issue of internal displacement and also that they do not know what the situation is in the various sieges that have been laid to towns. I know from the regular contact we are having with Foreign Minister Kuleba and President Zelensky through my right honourable friends the Foreign Secretary and the Prime Minister, my right honourable friend Minister Cleverly, the Minister for Europe, and me directly, that we are ensuring that we focus our support in the best way possible, led by the priorities needed as, today, we stand by the Ukrainian people and their Government.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend the Minister will have noticed that, on Friday, China and India—in fact, the UAE as well—refused to condemn outright the Russian bloody assault by abstaining. Has he also noticed that China and India are, I am afraid, busy preparing special payments arrangements internationally with Moscow to avoid the effect of the sanctions we are seeking to apply? Perhaps China is beyond reach in this matter, but surely, we have some alliance and understanding with India. Can we not persuade India to join the rest of the democracies—it is the world’s greatest democracy, after all—before it goes on this path, which will be very damaging to our cause?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I assure my noble friend that, at both the UN in New York and the Human Rights Council in Geneva, two resolutions are currently tabled. We are working on an extensive lobbying campaign to ensure maximum support for the two Ukraine resolutions in both places.

On my noble friend’s point about the UN Security Council, he is of course correct that three countries abstained, and Russia also vetoed the resolution that was passed. We are dealing directly with and making our case to not just the UAE and India but China as well. Indeed, in terms of our lobbying effort through our ambassador and the team on the ground in New York, we were pleased that China did not veto the UN security resolution but abstained instead.

My noble friend makes valid points on India, and I know for a fact that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister will speak with Prime Minister Modi today or tomorrow.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, on the question of justice and war crimes, does the Minister recall the calls made in your Lordships’ House on Friday last for a referral to the International Criminal Court? Indeed, has he had a chance to read the letter that was signed by a number of distinguished Members of your Lordships’ House and sent to Karim Khan QC, the prosecutor at the ICC, over the weekend? In addition to what he has told the House about what Karim Khan said in his statement, did the Minister read these words:

“There is a reasonable basis to believe that both alleged war crimes and crimes against humanity have been committed”


in Ukraine? As well as the importance of bringing Putin to justice, is it not right that we do as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, said and salute the courage and bravery of President Zelensky? Also, is it not particularly offensive to hear Putin and the Kremlin describe him as a Nazi when you consider that his grandfather had three brothers who were murdered by the Nazis in the Second World War?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am sure I speak for the whole House when I say that in President Zelensky we see someone principled who is standing by his people. I remember that my last visit to Ukraine took place at the exact time of the marking of the Holocaust, which engulfed the Ukrainian people. President Zelensky is the grandson of someone who survived the Holocaust, so let us reflect for a moment on that. I say to those who accuse him of Nazification: his grandfather was a survivor of those evil Nazi acts.

The noble Lord referred to Karim Khan, the ICC prosecutor. In Friday’s debate, I said that many people around the world should perhaps reflect on what was being said in your Lordships’ House and the quality of the contributions, for it was a debate informed by and based on expertise, insight and experience. As I said, I had a conversation with Karim Khan yesterday and we exchanged messages today. I have seen his full statement, which includes the words articulated by the noble Lord. He is looking specifically at that referral mechanism.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, do we and our allies have a view of what a satisfactory end state would be for us? Do we have a mechanism for stopping the sanctions, or some of them? We have a bad track record of doing that in the past. For example, is it just a case of saying, “Get out of Ukraine”? If so, does that include the Donbass, Crimea, Georgia, Moldova, Donetsk and Abkhazia? We must have a view of where we want to go and what we want. Do we have that clear view, and do our allies have it?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes an important point. Of course, the clear view has to be led, and rightly so, by the Ukrainian Government and the Ukrainian people. They have kept the issue of diplomatic negotiation very much open. Yesterday, President Zelensky, notwithstanding his own assessment of what the outcome would be of those negotiations, sent a team to the border with Belarus to meet directly with Russian representatives. I have seen the statements that came out of that, and they probably reflected President Zelensky’s pessimistic view. Our view is clear and is shared by the Ukrainian Government. Yes, ultimately, there has to be a peaceful settlement, but to allow diplomatic means to prevail, President Putin must pull back from the eastern part of Ukraine to allow those discussions to take place. To set preconditions while occupying sovereign land is no way to say, “Let’s seek a diplomatic solution.”

[Baroness Warsi (Con)]

My Lords, can my noble friend clarify the position of British citizens—civilians—who may wish to travel to the Ukraine to fight, as there has been some mixed messaging from the Foreign Office? That would greatly assist those who are keen to help Ukraine, but who would be endangering themselves and Ukrainians if they were to take that position.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend is right to draw attention to this. Of course, the sentiments of your Lordships’ House reflect those of any person with humanity at their core: you want to help in the best way possible. The best advice that I can offer to anyone seeking to travel to Ukraine is to look at the Foreign Office advice, which is very clear: do not travel to Ukraine. There is a lot that you can do within the United Kingdom to provide support, and we are extending support to near neighbours as well. They may wish to help with humanitarian efforts, but the situation in Ukraine is very fluid. We are recommending that no one travel there, and I hope that this Foreign Office advice is heeded.

[Lord Tyrie (Non-Afl)]

My Lords, what lessons do the Government draw from the fact that on sanctions, the supply of arms and the treatment of refugees, the UK, like the leaders of many western European countries, is being pushed by public opinion into much more far-reaching support for Ukraine than those leaders had originally intended? Does that not strongly suggest that further measures should be taken and more support given to Ukraine and to Zelensky’s Government?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I can certainly speak for the United Kingdom Government. For example, through Operation Orbital we were providing defence support directly to Ukraine immediately after the occupation of Crimea. We have a long-standing relationship with Ukraine: indeed, President Zelensky and Foreign Minister Kuleba have talked of the strong support they have received from the United Kingdom over a number of years. However, I acknowledge that when there is a crisis of the magnitude we now see in Ukraine, with the sovereignty of Ukraine being directly usurped by Russia, it is right that we, the Europeans, and all international partners look to do what we are doing, and do more. There is more still to be done.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, I think that everyone in this House would like to compliment the Minister on the enormously valuable work he has done and continues to do on this; we all appreciate it. However, can he take back to his colleagues that saying all the time that we are leading on this and leading on that is not the right tone? To say that we are working with others, we are co-operating, we are in solidarity with our partners and allies would be much more constructive in the current context.

Can I also ask about the domestic dimension of sanctions? I was very struck by the paragraph in the Intelligence and Security Committee’s Russia report which said that the penetration of British society and politics by wealthy Russians resident in London has gone so far that it is now in some ways difficult to untangle. We must now see what we can do to untangle that. Can we be assured that the Government will not only do their best to untangle it, but report to Parliament on what they are doing?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Lord’s second question, perhaps I can answer it with his first suggestion. To untangle such challenges we must work together, which is exactly what we are doing. We are working here in the United Kingdom and with key partners to negate the negative influence of Russian money and illicit finance in the United Kingdom and more broadly. As he will have seen from the sanctions we have introduced, they are reflective of that very objective. I am sure he will find that, as further legislation comes forward, further sanctions are applied and we have discussions on the economic crime Bill, we can untangle some of those issues.

On the issue of leadership, I have served with the noble Lord in government and I am sure he agrees that there are times when the United Kingdom leads the way, and I am proud of that. The richness of our history, our experience and our expertise reflects that. It is that leadership which also leads to enhanced partnerships, and that is exactly the approach we have adopted in this crisis.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, I welcome the Statement. It is certain that cryptocurrency will be used extensively to at least attempt to avoid these sanctions. There is no question about that. I think the Government are alert to that; the Foreign Secretary’s answers in the other place certainly indicated that they were. For the second day in a row, can I try to persuade a Minister to get the Financial Conduct Authority—

“the anti-money laundering and counter-terrorist financing … supervisor of UK cryptoasset businesses”

under the money laundering regulations—to remove the list of non-compliant crypto- asset dealers from its website? It is advertising money launderers to crooks and kleptocrats. Can they please be removed? There are 220 of them. It is not just their names: their websites and sometimes their mobile phone numbers are there.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

They say that when you say it once, you say it twice; I hope the noble Lord might not need to say it thrice. I certainly note very carefully what he said. Of course, cryptocurrency provides an opportunity to weave a way out of some of the sanctions restrictions that are being applied, as he rightly articulated. I noted very carefully what he said and I will respond with more detail in due course.

[Lord Mackay of Clashfern (Con)]

My Lords, I think that a Russian oil tanker was expected today in Orkney. There was some question about whether it had been sanctioned. I wonder whether the Minister can resolve that point, which is rather important, because Orkney is of course a very important part of the world.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I cannot answer specifically on that vessel. It depends on what time it came in, because the measures announced by my right honourable friend the Transport Secretary came into force at 1500 hours. It really depends on where the vessel was when those sanctions came into force.

[Lord Hogan-Howe (CB)]

My Lords, I am no lawyer, but it seems that this is an illegal war. We have used sanctions, properly, to try to influence a Government and a country to stop invading another country and to stop military people carrying out their tasks. We have now moved to a time to try to influence the people on the ground. That means the actions of either military or intelligence leaders. I follow the point from the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, that investment in our ability to investigate crime would be wise, but also in international prosecutors and the investigation they are about to embark on. The time is now to collect digital evidence on the ground to influence soldiers there, to stop them carrying out barbaric acts if we can and either publish their faces or identify them now, because an investigation after the event will be too late to prevent the damage they might cause today. It is clear that we will see conflict between military people and civilians over the coming days. This is the time to try to influence that behaviour. The digital world is just one way to achieve it.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes a very practical and helpful suggestion. We are collecting evidence to support whichever jurisdiction might follow through on the crimes being committed on the ground, including those that will be investigated by the ICC. We will be in full support of that with whatever evidence we have; we will submit our own intelligence that we gather on the ground. Equally, as he may well be aware, we are a strong supporter of the ICC. We will work co-operatively with whatever evidence we can provide to it.

[Lord Cormack (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend made several references to legislation. Does he accept that it would be right for such necessary legislation to be given priority over all other legislation? It is absolutely essential that we spend our time dealing not just with domestic Bills if there are Bills that can have a real influence on this ghastly situation.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the immediate issue of the sanctions, we have been working through the legislation, and I am grateful to the usual channels. Normally, there is a 28-day period for a debate to prevail after legislation has been laid; we are currently conducting the debates within 24 or 48 hours, so that partly reflects the situation. On the wider legislation we are bringing forward, I know the respective Front Benches and the usual channels are working very hard to accommodate the legislation required.

[Baroness Meyer (Con)]

My Lords, I too congratulate the Government on all that they are doing for the Ukrainian people. Given that the oligarchs who are close to Putin use lawyers, tax advisers and other such people, what can the Government do to force them to release any information that would follow the money? To be honest, a lot of the money is Putin’s, and he uses oligarchs to move it around.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend again raises an important point. In our debate on Friday, the noble Lord, Lord Carlile, also raised the point that the oligarchs are extremely wealthy and can employ lawyers to good effect. That is why our sanctions regime is both robust and tested in terms of legal thresholds before it is applied, to minimise any litigation that may take place.

[Lord Teverson (LD)]

My Lords, is the Minister having sufficient conversations with our overseas territories and Crown dependencies to make sure that none of our financial sanctions is bypassed in any way?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, this question has come up before—I believe that the noble Lord, Lord Wallace, asked it too. The legislation will take effect directly in our OTs as well. Of course, my right honourable friend Amanda Milling, the Minister with responsibility for the overseas territories, is dealing directly with the OTs on this.

[Lord McDonald of Salford (CB)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Collins of Highbury, mentioned the interest in depriving Russia of permanent membership of the Security Council. Can the Minister confirm that the arrangement made in December 1991, supervised by my noble friend Lord Hannay of Chiswick, to have Russia as the successor state to the Soviet Union is legally watertight, so that the only way Russia can be deprived of permanent council membership is if Russia votes in favour of it?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I think the House will take the lead of the noble Lord who, as a very distinguished former Permanent Under-Secretary at the Foreign and Commonwealth Office, speaks to what the requirements are. This has been the challenge, frankly, at the Security Council. I am proud—if I may use the word—of the UK’s leadership in its lack of use of its veto power, unlike other P5 countries. The noble Lord is correct in that respect. However, we have seen other actions; for example, the Foreign Minister of Russia could not travel to Geneva for the Human Rights Council earlier today. For those who say the sanctions are not working, I point out that the logistics of restrictions on Russian-registered aircraft over certain countries prevented him travelling. When he spoke, a majority of delegations left the room. There are measures or stands that you can take within the diplomatic network that show not just your immense dissatisfaction but your rejection of the actions of a member of the permanent five.

[Lord Sterling of Plaistow (Con)]

My Lords, has my noble friend the Minister had conversations with the P&I clubs? As we sit here, loads of tankers are leaving every day with oil for Russia. If you take away the insurance of the tankers themselves, and what they are holding for the owners, that could disrupt them hugely in making the dollars that they much like to make.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My noble friend speaks with detailed insight of the industry. I have gone through, at a summary level, what the new transport measures will mean. I will of course reflect on what he said and then write to him specifically on whether those prohibitions will apply. The fact that Russian ships cannot now enter any British port since 3 pm today will partly address the question he put to me.

[Baroness Foster of Oxton (Con)]

My Lords, as on other days, today we are witnessing acts of genocide and war crimes against the women and children of Ukraine, and we know that Putin’s ambitions will not stop there. At the same time, we have a phenomenal amount of air power just sitting on the ground across Europe. Notwithstanding the time it would take for sanctions to kick in, what exactly would it take for NATO to take direct action to stop Putin in his tracks?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend talks of air power. One thing is very clear: we fulfil our obligations through NATO. As my right honourable friend the Prime Minister said in response to a question put to him today, we are not in the position of putting in place measures that provide the basis for British military aircraft conducting combat directly with Russian combat aircraft. At this juncture of the conflict, our support is very much to the defence of Ukrainian sovereign territory. My right honourable friend has made it clear, as has my right honourable friend the Defence Secretary, that we stand solidly behind the defensive support we can give to Ukraine. We are also providing training support and other defensive material.

Ukraine: NATO Membership

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 24th February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Balfe]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what steps they are taking, if any, (1) to encourage Ukraine to apply for membership of the North Atlantic Treaty Organization (NATO), and (2) to build support among other members of NATO for any such application.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the United Kingdom strongly condemns the appalling, unprovoked attack that President Putin has launched on the people of Ukraine. President Putin has chosen a path of bloodshed and destruction by launching this unprovoked attack on Ukraine. The United Kingdom remains firmly committed to Ukraine’s independence, sovereignty and territorial integrity within its internationally recognised borders. We fully support the partnership relationship between NATO and Ukraine, and we remain committed to the 2008 Bucharest Summit Declaration in which all NATO allies agreed that Ukraine will become a member of the alliance. In 2020, NATO welcomed Ukraine as an enhanced opportunity partner as a means of enhancing its interoperability and co-operation with the alliance in order to support Ukraine’s continuing programme of internal reform.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

My Lords, those of us who have tried to help Russia through the Council of Europe, the Russia APPG et cetera, are bitterly disappointed that the categorical denials of any intention to invade Ukraine have been torn up, and we were not told the truth. I support the work of the Minister and ask whether, as a first step, he would consider recalling our ambassador in Moscow for consultations and suggesting that the Russian ambassador in London might also return to Moscow to find out why he was ordered to lie to us.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I thank my noble friend for his remarks, and I can share that, as I was coming to your Lordships’ House, the Foreign Secretary announced that she will summon the Russian ambassador to the Court of St James today. These are fast-moving events. I cannot comment on the specifics of what my noble friend raises, but we are working with key partners in NATO and our colleagues in the European Union. I have just this morning returned from the United Nations, and I think I speak for every single member of your Lordships’ House when I say that we unequivocally condemn the actions of the Russian state and of President Putin. Even at this juncture, it is time for him to withdraw. Peace over war is always a better option.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, I am taking the unusual step of intervening straight away just to echo the comments of the Minister. He knows that the Opposition fully support the Government in all their actions to ensure that the democratic sovereignty of an independent nation is protected. We should do everything in our power to support Ukraine and to ensure that we work with all of our allies to bring this to an end. He knows that later today the Prime Minister will make a Statement, and I know that we will have an opportunity to consider that ourselves. So I am not going to pose a question to the Minister; I just wanted to express our support for the Government’s actions to ensure that Russia is defeated on this matter.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord. He and I spoke earlier this morning, when I updated him on key parts of the situation as it unravels. He is of course correct; I believe that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister will be addressing the country as I speak. There will be further opportunities during the day to raise questions on elements of our response to this unwarranted, unnecessary and unprovoked aggression of the Russian state against Ukraine and the Ukrainian people.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, would the Minister not agree that this demonstrates what some of us have said all along: that the question of Ukraine’s NATO status has always been a smokescreen and a pretence by Russia, which is in fact determined to destabilise Ukraine and prevent it becoming a stable democratic country? If that is the case, I hope that we will hear tomorrow from him and other Ministers how we will respond to what is after all a war of choice and a war of aggression, and thus a war crime.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The noble Lord speaks with great insight and experience. I assure him—indeed, all in your Lordships’ House—that the whole purpose of my being at the United Nations yesterday as part of the General Assembly debate was, again, because of the brinkmanship that was being shown by President Putin. He went to the brink and has now stepped over the line. We will of course outline further action and further details during the course of today. I understand from my right honourable friend the Chief Whip that a debate on Ukraine is also scheduled for tomorrow, and I am sure that we will be discussing further details of statements that will be made during the course of today.

[Baroness Smith of Newnham (LD)]

My Lords, we on these Benches also support the Government in their reaction to the invasion of Ukraine, but we wonder whether it would be possible to go further; obviously, we will be discussing sanctions later. For example, one of the issues that has faced Ukraine for months is the attack on its cyber system. To what extent might NATO be able to give support from its Cyber Defence Centre of Excellence, which is based in Estonia?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, I thank the noble Baroness for her support. Again, it is important that there is a single unitary voice from your Lordships’ House and across both Houses of Parliament against this unprovoked Russian aggression against a sovereign state. On the issue of cyber, I was in Estonia about 10 days ago as part of our engagement on broader issues. I met our forces on the ground there and looked at our capabilities, including cyber. We are, not just through NATO but directly, offering the Ukrainian Government and Ukrainian people our full support. However, I would add that cyber is a challenge that is being met and felt not just by the Ukrainian people; we have felt it right here in the UK as well.

[Lord Howell of Guildford (Con)]

Will my noble friend keep reminding his colleagues that Russia is in some senses half an Asian nation as well as a European one, and that we need not only a united NATO, which I think we are moving towards, but the strong and full financial and commercial engagement of the great powers of Asia to establish the pariah status of Russia in Mr Putin’s mind?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend and can assure him that, later today, I will host a meeting with the ambassadors of the UN Security Council members in the Court of St James. It is important that we see unity. Of course, we fully expect any resolution to be vetoed by Russia in the Security Council, but there will be further debates in the General Assembly in which we will look to show the maximum level of support across all nations.

The other thing that is often forgotten is the point made by my right honourable friend the Defence Secretary: around 1/16 of Russia’s border faces countries that are members of the NATO alliance. So we need to put this into context and perspective as well.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, I join the Minister and my noble friend Lord Collins in their condemnation of what is a crime against the peaceful people of Ukraine. It ought to be condemned at every turn. Suddenly in these circumstances we are talking about and debating the issue of NATO expansion, when it was not an issue at all. As the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, said, this plays exactly to Putin’s playbook. It is of advantage to him only because it distracts from urgent matters—namely, Russia’s problems, which are driving his criminal behaviour. President Biden, who, over the course of two decades of war in Iraq and Afghanistan, has grown sceptical about expanding US military commitments, has been open and honest with the Ukrainians about the unlikelihood of them meeting the current criteria for membership. Will the Minister do likewise and help to put this issue to bed now, so that we can concentrate on what is actually happening?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I have already outlined the Government’s position on Ukraine’s NATO membership, as and whenever that might take place. Of course, there are certain criteria, which have been detailed and shared with the Ukrainians. If they meet those criteria, it is a choice for Ukraine to join NATO and for other member states to agree its membership. However, at this particular juncture, I agree with the noble Lord that our focus should be very much on the situation as it is unravelling. We offer Ukraine our full support in every respect and are working, together with our NATO allies and our partners across the European Union, in the context of the United States and others, to ensure that this message is received in Moscow very clearly: its actions were not just unprovoked but are an act of aggression against a sovereign state. Pull back, and pull back now.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister spoke of the importance of a unitary voice; of course, he is absolutely correct as far as this place is concerned. However, in his initial response he also touched on matters relating to the European Union. Is he aware that, yesterday, both Italy and Austria prevaricated in their support for sanctions? Indeed, Hungary is directly opposed to sanctions. What will the Minister do to encourage these states to come in line with what is the right thing to do?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I can share that, among my meetings at the United Nations yesterday, I met the Foreign Minister of Germany. We welcome the decision made by the German Chancellor to pull back on Nord Stream 2. That shows the real sense of unity prevailing across Europe. It is my understanding that, later today, there will be an EU Foreign Affairs Council meeting, which will discuss the very issues that the noble Lord raises.

Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) (Amendment) Regulations 2022

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 24th February 2022 Lords Chamber

Moved by

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon]

That the Regulations laid before the House on 10 February be approved.

Relevant document: 30th Report from the Secondary Legislation Scrutiny Committee.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we laid this instrument to strengthen our response to the grave situation that we face today in Ukraine. Sadly, the need is now greater than ever. As stated by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister, we will be tightening the ratchet in response to Russia’s aggressive actions. Noble Lords will be aware that my right honourable friend will make a Statement in the other place at 5 pm today, where he will set out in further detail the work of this Government on this important issue. As noble Lords will also be aware, the Statement will be repeated here at a convenient time after 7 pm. Therefore, at this point in time, I cannot go into any further detail on the specifics of our response in advance of those Statements being made.

We are seeing the situation playing out as many of us feared it might. President Putin has used disinformation, lies and false flag activities to justify his unprovoked and unjustifiable invasion of Ukraine. Later today the United Kingdom, working with international partners, will bring forward an unprecedented level of sanctions to punish this aggression and persuade those around Mr Putin that this is frankly the wrong thing to do. We will continue to stand in solidarity with the Ukrainian people.

Sanctions announced by the UK and our allies are already having an impact, as we have seen today with direct impacts on markets and the rouble, which has stooped to a record low. These sanctions are impacting and will impact Russia. The institutions that prop Mr Putin up and the people around him should take note. The decision to invade a sovereign territory, Ukraine, is unjustified and will be met with an unprecedented and universal response, which is already under way.

Mr Putin has been clear that he wants to recreate a Russian empire and claim back places he defines as Russia, but these places he describes are sovereign states in their own right. Let us be absolutely clear: Ukraine is not part of Russia. The fantasy Mr Putin is trying to play out of tsarist expansionist Russia must be stopped now. I assure your Lordships that we will bring forward an unprecedented, co-ordinated sanctions response to punish this appalling decision.

For your Lordships’ information, I say that the G7 will meet later today to discuss the severe co-ordinated sanctions we will be imposing on Russia. Ukraine, of course, is not a NATO country, but we will help it with self-defence. We are talking with other leaders to co-ordinate our response, as well as our response when it comes to sanctions. The solidarity of NATO is clear. We stand together. That is why the UK and other NATO states have been moving troops to our NATO allies. We will continue to support the legitimate Government of Ukraine and, importantly, the people of Ukraine in their self-defence against this attack by Vladimir Putin. We will use every lever under our control in pursuit of that end.

The legislation follows the “made affirmative” procedure set out in Section 55(3) of the Sanctions and Anti-Money Laundering Act 2018. The statutory instrument amends the Russia (Sanctions) (EU Exit) Regulations 2019. It allows the Government to impose sanctions on a much broader range of individuals and businesses who are or have been involved in

“obtaining a benefit from or supporting the Government of Russia”.

These include those that, first, carry on business as Russian Government-affiliated entities; secondly, carry on business of economic significance to the Government of Russia; thirdly, carry on business in a sector of strategic significance to the Government of Russia; and, fourthly, businesses that own or control, or act as a director, trustee or equivalent of, one of these entities.

It is very clear from the events of last night that Russian aggression against Ukraine is part of a long-term strategy. If we give ground now, or we try to accommodate illegitimate Russian demands, Russia’s strategy of aggression—we fear—will not end here. Who will be next? Russia, if we were to give way, would be emboldened. President Putin’s focus would simply move on to the next target. What is being done is an attempt to turn back the clock to years gone by, and perhaps a mythical past, to rebuild the Russian sphere of influence. We must be absolutely firm in our response.

As my right honourable friend the Prime Minister will set out in more detail to the nation later this afternoon, what we do today will shape European security for many years to come. Together, we must rise to this moment, and we must stand united with Ukraine and with the people of Ukraine. In the Revolution of Dignity, it was the Ukrainians who risked their lives to choose freedom; they fought for democracy. I am determined that we will continue to support them in that choice which they made for themselves. I therefore commend the regulations to the House and would also share once again that it is our intention, as I said at the start, to go much further.

Amendment to the Motion

Moved by

--- Later in debate ---

During our discussions earlier this morning, no one will have been surprised that the photographs, pictures and newsreels from Ukraine were pretty appalling, and of course there will be a humanitarian crisis developing. Indeed, it has already developed: people are escaping the bombs, and I hope the Minister can assure us that we will take all possible steps to provide humanitarian support, particularly for those fleeing the conflict. I share the view about ensuring that we hit the Russians with the strongest possible economic sanctions, and the SWIFT financial mechanism is something we should obviously explore. I know the Minister will not be able to make any commitments today in advance of Statements and the consideration we will be giving tonight at 7 pm, so I will not carry on, but I reassure the Minister that he has our full support in the proposed actions that are to come.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am very grateful to all noble Lords for their support for the position of the Government, but to be frank it is the position, and rightly so, of our country, which stands united against the aggression of Vladimir Putin in terms of what has happened overnight. The noble Lord, Lord Pannick, made a specific point about what is in front of us—with his legal prowess, I know that is what he is focused on—but as I said in my opening remarks, events have superseded where we are today. While this was tabled, rightly, as a debate on what had already been laid before us, equally, as I have already alluded to, there is more to be done in this area. Statements that will be made later by my right honourable friend the Prime Minister will certainly detail the extent to which further action can be taken.

I can share with the noble Lords, Lord Foulkes and Lord Pannick, and others that we are also looking closely at the economic crime and corporate transparency Bill. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, knows that I have advocated strongly for this, and my right honourable friends the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary have recently reaffirmed the Government’s commitment to bringing it forward. This legislation will, of course, significantly enhance our ability to clamp down on dirty money in the UK by reforming Companies House, a point made by the noble Lord, Lord Wallace. It will also require foreign companies that own property in the UK to reveal their beneficial ownership, a point made by my noble friend Lord Robathan. As we heard from the Prime Minister on 2 February, we are committed to bringing this legislation forward; however, as I said at the start, there are certain things I cannot pre-empt, so I will not go further, but I assure noble Lords that that is very much on our agenda.

My noble friend Lord Balfe rightly raised various issues concerning people of Russian origin. I say at the outset that we need to be very clear that our argument is not with the Russian people. There are people in our country who are dual nationals—British nationals of Russian origin who are British citizens. Many of them are critics of Mr Putin, and I am sure I speak for every Member of your Lordships’ House when I say that it is completely wrong to in any way put everyone together. This is a clear action by President Putin, and that is what we should be calling out.

The noble Lord, Lord Browne, spoke about the implications for those individuals already mentioned. Of course, we are in the process of freezing assets and imposing travel bans on the individuals already named. He raised a wider point about the impact that our sanctions have had under various regimes. We have sanctioned 81 individuals and entities—for example, those involved in human rights violations. I think sanctions do have an impact. They send a very strong message to different parts of the world—whether in the context of human rights or as we broaden the issue to include corruption and illicit finance—that we are ready to take action, particularly on the assets of people who may be resident here in the UK, or indeed by restricting their travel. This does have an impact.

The noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, raised the issue of members of the Duma and the Federation Council. We are looking closely at those who voted in support of annexing parts of the two republics—the illegal annexation—and I will share information with noble Lords on specific names and institutions as we move forward. The noble Lord, Lord Wallace, asked whether the statutory instruments will apply to the OTs. I can confirm that they will automatically apply to the OTs and Crown dependencies, and we will be co-ordinating with them. The noble Lord knows from our time spent considering the Sanctions and Anti-Money-Laundering Bill the importance of pursuing public registers, as they have all now committed to doing.

The noble Lord, Lord Browne, the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, my noble friend Lord Balfe and others said that action must be co-ordinated in order to be effective. This has become part of my own mantra, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, knows well: sanctions are only good enough when they are co-ordinated with our partners, and I assure noble Lords that we are working very closely with them. Yes, because of certain legislative extensions and broadening of legislation, there are certain sanctions we have not applied, but we are working very closely with our European partners, the United States, Canada and Australia to ensure that there is co-ordinated activity in this respect, and that international co-operation will remain at the heart of UK sanctions policy. We will continue to work very closely with the EU and other international partners to tackle these shared objectives. I assure the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, that, as I said in answer to a question earlier this morning, I recently discussed this specific point with the German Minister.

The noble Lord, Lord Wallace, asked about the Russia report, to which the Government have published their response. I listened carefully to his concerns, and he is right that we have seen the impact of Russian interference around the world and the cyberattacks that have been generated, to which my noble friend also referred. My noble friend also asked about support to Ukraine. Of course, we are working with them, but to be clear, when I met the Ukrainian Foreign Minister yesterday, as well as the physical intervention—which turned from an incursion into what is now an invasion of the sovereign territory of Ukraine—the issue of disabling all communications in Ukraine and how best we can mitigate such action was very much part of our discussions.

The noble Lords, Lord Foulkes and Lord Collins, and other noble Lords raised the issue of SWIFT and what could be imposed and what that would mean. What I can say at this juncture, without going into detail, is that, simply put, we have not ruled anything out in terms of sanctions. What we are proposing, and certainly what will be heard later, will be a toughening up of our sanctions regime. We are very conscious to identify all those entities and individuals with strong links to the Kremlin.

The issue of disinformation was also mentioned briefly. The Russian Government are—and since the events of last night continue to be—conducting an aggressive set of information operations against Ukraine and, indeed, NATO. It was that particular disinformation that they used as a trigger to launch the invasion into the sovereign republics of Ukraine.

The noble Lord, Lord Cashman, raised an important issue about human rights. He knows how central this is to my own thinking. On Monday, I hope, events prevailing, to be at the Human Rights Council, where I will have various discussions with key partners on what more we can do within the context of the multilateral system. The noble Lord is, of course, right that the issue of human rights within Russia has been a particular challenge. Indeed, my noble friend talked about the opposition within Russia. We do not need to go further than the appalling treatment of Mr Navalny to see how Mr Putin has first suppressed internal opposition and has then moved, as we saw last night, to suppressing democratic progression in other near neighbours.

I assure the noble Lord, Lord Cashman, that we are using our sanctions regime. Indeed, in December 2020, we announced designations of Russian individuals and entities responsible for the torture and murder of members of the LBGT community in Chechnya specifically. In that regard, I thank the noble Lord and the noble Lord, Lord Collins. We have worked very closely on these issues, and they remain very much at the forefront of our mind.

On the broader issue of freedom of religion or belief, we have again seen the appalling suppression of the rights of Jehovah’s Witnesses, for example, in Russia, and we will continue to focus with our international partners on how we can act further in this respect.

I said at the start of this debate that events had overtaken us. Rightly, we need now to look at the here and now. In doing so, what my right honourable friend will detail later today will reflect many—

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

I wonder if the Minister can just deal with the question laid by the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, and me about the Council of Europe.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I was very much coming to that. I met John Howell and discussed what our approach should be. Again, this was in advance of recent events. As the noble Lord and noble Baroness will know, I regard the Council of Europe as an important way of engaging with those countries which perhaps we would not normally engage with through other institutions. The issue of whether Russia should remain part of it will, of course, be a matter for the Council of Europe. I have noted very carefully what the noble Lord has said in this respect.

One thing that I have always retained from my own experience of diplomacy is the importance of continuing to communicate in some shape or form. What was very clear to me with Russia yesterday at the United Nations was that when the Secretary-General of the United Nations rightly—I am sure noble Lords agree—condemned Russian actions, and this was in advance of what happened last night, even he became the subject of extreme criticism from the Russian representative. That was coming from a P5 member of the Security Council of the United Nations, which was set up to ensure that we address the scourge of aggression and conflict.

Let us not forget in particular the aggression and conflict that took place in Europe. Sitting there in the chamber and listening to what was unfolding in front of us, it was very clear. In my later meeting with the Secretary-General, he again reflected that this was perhaps the biggest challenge he had faced during his tenure, not least because it was being initiated by a permanent member of the UN Security Council, a body that was created to address conflict and sustain peace.

FCDO Nutrition Policy

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 21st February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

My Lords, on behalf of my noble friend Lord Collins of Highbury, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in his name on the Order Paper.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the Foreign Secretary has confirmed that the United Kingdom will spend £1.5 billion between 2022 and 2030 on nutrition, addressing the nutrition needs of mothers, babies and children, tackling malnutrition in humanitarian emergencies and making sure that nutrition is central to the FCDO’s wider work over the eight years to 2030. The marker will be embedded into FCDO systems later in 2022, recording relevant programmes making a contribution towards nutrition objectives from the point of programme design.

[Baroness Merron (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for that Answer. Of course, evidence shows that combining the humanitarian response with a longer-term focus on improving nutrition can help improve resilience to future shocks and crises, thereby decreasing the need for, and cost of, future humanitarian assistance. With the average time spent as a refugee on the rise, how would the UK’s nutrition for growth commitments advance the scaling up of successful approaches, such as nutrition-sensitive social protection, and will the department consider incorporating an impact commitment into the next nutrition for growth pledge?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first I recognise the valuable work done by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, in his work on the APPG, and I wish him well—I understand he is recovering from Covid. In this respect, I also recognise that he has consistently raised this issue and our commitment, underlying the ongoing commitment from the UK, to this important priority. The noble Baroness asks a very valid question about how we can fulfil key objectives. The whole idea is to ensure that, right at the point of planning, all these elements within nutrition are incorporated—not just in the direct commitments on nutrition but that they are recorded as nutrition programme objectives in the wider work that the FCDO does. We constantly review impact assessments as well to see the effectiveness of our work and, of course, I will take back the question of the specific programming that we will be doing as this comes through. As I have said already, we hope the markers will be in place later this year, and at that point I am sure there will be further discussions.

[Baroness Sugg (Con)]

My Lords, I very much welcome the Government’s new eight-year commitment to nutrition. Can my noble friend the Minister share any more detail on this? What will be the split between nutrition-sensitive and nutrition-specific programming? And what will be the phasing of the spend? My noble friend will know the urgency of this work—by the end of this year, over 30 million additional children could be subject to wasting because of the impacts of Covid-19.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I fully recognise the importance of both elements of our programming and ensuring that our £1.5 billion commitment covers both nutrition-specific and nutrition-sensitive interventions and investments. We are currently going through the business-planning process, and we will then be able to provide more information on the expected nutrition investments for the 2022 to 2025 spending periods, and I will update my noble friend accordingly. But I can reassure her that we remain among the top 10 bilateral donors in investing in nutrition.

[Lord Ashton of Hyde (Con)]

My Lords, the noble Baroness, Lady Brinton, would like to participate virtually, and I think that this would be a good moment to call her.

[Baroness Brinton (LD) [V]]

My Lords, whilst the Government’s commitment to investing £1.5 billion in nutrition over the next eight years is a start, it is still less than one quarter of what the International Coalition for Advocacy on Nutrition has recommended. Will this reduced amount meet the UK’s commitment to achieve the WHO global nutrition targets by 2025, which include a 40% reduction in the number of children under five who are stunted, and a 50% reduction in anaemia in women of reproductive age?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have already said, we remain fully committed to ensuring our key objectives on nutrition are met. We are working very closely with organisations, including the World Health Organization, to ensure that the pledges made recently at the Tokyo summit also go towards achieving the very objectives that the noble Baroness has laid out. Specifically, by having every programme of the FCDO in bilateral support that we provide to key countries also focus specifically on nutrition and fulfilling our reporting back on an annual basis to OECD, I think we will see much more focus spent on achieving the targets we are setting ourselves across the piece.

[Baroness Blackstone (Ind Lab)]

My Lords, the stark statistics—I am sure the Minister will agree—on the whole question of nutrition show that one 10th of the world’s population are suffering from being undernourished, and nearly half the deaths of children under five are caused by malnutrition. Does this not underline the need, yet again, to return to the 0.7% of GNI spent on overseas assistance, and not to wait any longer? Perhaps the Minister, in response to what the noble Baroness, Lady Sugg, has already said about the urgency of this and the size of the commitment that we need to make to deal with this problem or to help deal with this problem, could tell the House how much longer we have to wait for the promise the Government have made to return to 0.7% to happen?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I previously said, the Government are absolutely committed to returning to the 0.7% pledge. Indeed, my right honourable friend the Chancellor has already laid out the pathway towards that objective. However, notwithstanding the reduction in ODA spend, I believe we have again illustrated our commitment on nutrition. On the specific areas raised by the noble Baroness, we have examples of how our programming funding has assisted. In Bangladesh, for example, the Suchana multisectoral nutrition programme has targeted close to 240,000 households and impacted positively 1.4 million people. In Nigeria, our child development grant programme is a six-year investment that provides cash transfers to mothers during pregnancy. There are other, notable examples of in-country support specifically focused on nutrition. As I have already said, our commitment to ensuring that those markers are now integrated in all FCDO development programmes on nutrition going forward will also allow us to provide fully comprehensive reports to the OECD on our nutrition spend. I believe that some of the issues that the noble Baroness raised will be addressed quite directly.

[Baroness Finlay of Llandaff (CB)]

My Lords, can the Government confirm that they will continue to work with NGOs in areas of warfare, such as Myanmar, where the military regime is preventing any aid getting through but the Shan Women’s Action Network is able to get healthcare and food into areas that are otherwise not reached? The history of doing that in that country has been very good; we provided aid to Chin State during the mautam famine, which prevented some of the mass starvation that was going on.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I can give that commitment to the noble Baroness. I have seen over a number of years the direct impact of working with civil society organisations on the ground in terms of the support they can provide. I believe very strongly that it is part of our duty to support the infrastructure of their continued work. The noble Baroness talked of Myanmar. More recently, we have seen work of that kind in Afghanistan, Yemen and Syria. I now look after the civil society organisations portfolio within the FCDO, so I would of course be willing to hear any suggestions the noble Baroness may have relating to Myanmar and to work with her.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, population and family size are of course a real problem. Could the Minister confirm that we are still helping women in poorer countries to be able to access proper family planning?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I can certainly give that reassurance to the noble Lord.

[Lord McColl of Dulwich (Con)]

Would the Minister agree that, although half the world is starving to death, the other half is gorging itself to death? Could he persuade the Department of Health and Social Care to stop advocating a low-fat diet when in fact the right kind of fat is what limits obesity?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I bow to my noble friend’s expertise in this area and totally concur with him. When one travels the world and sees the challenges of famine—I think the latest UN estimate was that 223 million people will face acute food shortages and insecurity—one sees that global actions on fighting famine and looking at dietary-specific solutions are a vital part of our work.

[Baroness Watkins of Tavistock (CB)]

My Lords, could the Minister say what further investment there will be in women’s secondary education, which is closely linked to preventing an increase in population numbers and improving the nutrition of children who are already alive?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has put the whole issue of women and girls very much at the heart of our work. The noble Baroness will be aware of our commitments through the Global Education Summit. We currently provide £430 million for girls’ education. There was an earlier question on the World Health Organization; we are working with the WHO on fulfilling its recommendations about breastfeeding within an hour of birth and nutritionally adequate and safe complementary feeding methods. These are part of our quite extensive programmes, working both with international agencies and partners and bilaterally in support of development programmes focused on girls and women around the world.

Autocrats, Kleptocrats and Populists

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 3rd February 2022 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I first thank all noble Lords for their participation in what has been an excellent and, as ever, informed debate on a subject which—as I said to the noble Lord, Lord Browne—was all-encompassing and quite broad. Equally, noble Lords have drawn attention to some consistent themes. I wish to put on record my thanks to the noble Lord, Lord Browne, for tabling this very important debate and for getting the insights from across your Lordships’ House. As the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, pointed out, the attendance today demonstrates both the insights and experience on this important issue, even though we may have different perspectives on the issues that have been discussed.

I will address a couple of issues right from the outset. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Hastings. It has been the greatest honour of my professional and political career to represent my country on the world stage. It is important that we reflect on who we are, what we are and what we stand for. It is also important to lead from the front and to look towards our own backyard and demonstrate that we stand up for the values that we all believe in. On this, the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, was spot on. As someone with a particular heritage who is proud of my faith, I value the fact that my country allows me to celebrate both. Equally, I am proud of my country, the United Kingdom, which allows me to do that.

But these values are not unique to the UK. As the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, pointed out, they are embedded in the common humanity that we all share. Equally, as we take the messages of strengthening democracy, we need to reflect on our own history, both recent and past, to ensure that, when we talk of human rights, we talk not by pointing a finger but through sharing experience, and when we talk about sharing and strengthening democracy and the rights of women, we do not say, “Look at us today”. We should reflect on our past and the hard struggle for democratic rights within our country.

Therefore, leadership is important and I assure the noble Lord, Lord Hastings, that in my engagements I put that very much at the heart of our diplomacy. As a country we believe in democracy. What we are seeing today is democracy very much in action—the ability for a government Minister to respond to challenges and criticisms. It is right that any thriving democracy allows that to happen. As my noble friend Lord Balfe said, it is important, whichever party we come from and whatever perspectives we bring, that we seek to defend them both individually and collectively.

We have seen, as the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, said, human rights eroding. We should look to ensure that human rights, the rights of communities and people, are protected both internationally and at home. As the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, pointed out, many institutions took immense challenge to create, including the United Nations. It is not perfect in every way but, as a P5 member and a committed member of the multilateral system, we must do our best to change from within so that the institution itself is strengthened along with others.

From the economic strong-arming of China to the bullying tactics of Russia—the noble Lord, Lord Collins, pointed towards Ukraine, which is rightly taking up the bandwidth of many people in your Lordships’ House and beyond; we stand in solidarity with Ukraine against further Russian aggression—autocratic regimes are looking towards a democracy in terms of our strengthened, or indeed weakened, position. What happened in Afghanistan should not be lost on us. Countries will test us. I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Alton. He knows both from our public debates and from private discussions that the Chinese authorities are watching very carefully. They are looking at unity, not just of language but of purpose and action.

What has worked well recently? The Covid response was a matter of discussion for many months; indeed, more than two years. I say to the noble Lord, Lord Londesborough, that we saw the best focus and prioritisation of humanity and the interdependence of humanity, from academia to research to manufacture and delivery. I fully accept that there is so much more still to do, and we are focused on that. While it is far from a perfect outcome, one hopes that as we evolve as established democracies that were at the forefront of the vaccination, we do not forget smaller countries—developing nations that are yet to receive the vaccine in the way they require—and that we invest in their infrastructure, support and distribution. Now is the time for the free world to stand together.

As the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, pointed out, we have seen the decline of democracies around the world. As my noble friend Lord Balfe pointed out, democracy does not necessarily mean the election of Governments and Administrations who meet with our own aligned values.

Equally, when we look towards Russia, democracy also means that those in government protect those in opposition. It means that, after what we saw in the dreadful, awful and continuing case of Alexei Navalny, we stand together to show that democracy is not just about ensuring that your own position is secure—the Opposition are also free to challenge and be critical. That is why the UK is working with like-minded friends to build that network of liberty that my noble friend Lord Howell spoke of, and he knows very well the strength of that network, with its links to key institutions, including the institution of the Commonwealth, which brings together 54 nations. As my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary has said, we will continue to build that network of liberty to promote democracy and freedom around the world.

The noble Lords, Lord Wallace and Lord Alton, talked about soft power, particularly of the BBC. I assure noble Lords of the fact that we continue to provide support to the BBC—this year, the budget is £94.4 million—and, as the noble Lord, Lord Collins, also pointed out, to the Westminster Foundation for Democracy. On the current settlement, although we are still going through the process at the FCDO, I agree with noble Lords that those institutions play an important role. The noble Lord, Lord Wallace, pointed to our universities, and I agree with him. He pointed to the cultural sector and the British Council, and I agree with him. All those institutions are an important part of what the United Kingdom does internationally. It means that together we build a powerful alternative for countries which, unhappily, do not share the strength of democracy.

We have heard about autocrats and populists; we must stand firm against that. That means building stronger security ties and a network of allies to protect our people, our friends and our freedoms and to show adversaries that they do not have a free hand to achieve their objectives through force. Therefore, it is important that we continue to build alliances, as we have done recently through the AUKUS partnership with the US and Australia, which will help to protect sea routes and stability across the Indo-Pacific, while deepening our work with Canada to cover the Arctic and beyond.

It is key that, in building these alliances, we continue to stand up for free market economics and argue for trade and technology as tools of liberation, not control. It means offering a compelling alternative to low-income countries whose balance sheets are loaded, as several noble Lords pointed out, with debt to China. As the noble Baroness, Lady Bennett, and the noble Lord, Lord Griffiths, pointed out, inequality is real and in front of us. In the alternative that we present, empowerment through the economy and economic empowerment must be based on equality and not on debt reliance. That means cutting our strategic dependence on authoritarian regimes, starting with Europe’s unsustainable reliance on Russian energy. We have seen that Russia can and will weaponise that, and the United Kingdom is responding to all these challenges.

We are building new and improved trading ties with like-minded nations, with two-thirds of our trade now covered by trade deals. We will continue to explore new areas of work. Many noble Lords focused on the issue of illicit finance and money laundering, and I am conscious that there were many detailed questions, but I shall seek to provide a framework to many of the questions that were asked. I pay particular tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Hain, for drawing attention to particular issues that have arisen, and I know that my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster has written to him on the specific issues that he raised. I hope that he would acknowledge that, on the issues that he raised and the follow-ups—I was conscious of a letter pending—we will follow up and take action, as we have done when exercising sanctions.

The noble Lord, Lord Browne, talked of the year of action, as did the noble Lord, Lord Collins, and others. It is right, and the UK has recognised that, as home to one of the world’s leading financial centres, it is a problem—but we need to face up to the challenge and work in partnership with others who face similar challenges. The corrosive risk of dirty money, including from Russia, being laundered in the UK poses a serious and dangerous risk to our national security, and we have consistently reinforced our ability to crack down on illicit finance in the UK through legislation and the strength of law enforcement response. Money obtained through criminality or corruption is not welcome in the UK, and more needs to be done. In 2018, the Financial Action Task Force found that the UK had one of the strongest systems for combating money laundering and terrorist financing of more than 60 countries that it assessed. We will also ensure the full weight of law enforcement will crack down on those who look to use, move or hide their proceeds of crime.

The noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, and the noble Lords, Lord Browne, Lord Purvis, and others, raised the important issue of money laundered within the City of London. I acknowledge that the UK has one of the world’s largest and most open economies. I was in the City of London for over 20 years: you see the international finance infrastructure and yes, it is the world’s most attractive destination for overseas investors, including Russia. These factors include a range of viable corporate structures, making the UK attractive for legitimate business. However, I recognise, as noble Lords have pointed out, that that also exposes the UK to money-laundering risks, including those relating to Russia. We are well aware of individuals with links to the Russian state who may seek to further damage the reputation and influence within the UK, but also to use their own influence through strategic investments. We will continue to look at those cases in closer detail to ensure that we can act accordingly.

The noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, referred to Transparency International. I am sure she is also aware of a recent report that gives the UK a score of 78 out of 100 in Transparency International’s 2021 corruption perceptions index. I believe we were just outside the top 10, with Germany ahead of us. However, that does not mean that we rest on our laurels; there is more to be done. We will take robust action to crack down on dirty money. For example, we have broadened our sanctions regime through the global anti-corruption sanctions regime, and we are delivering on the UK Economic Crime Plan and the United Kingdom Anti-corruption Strategy. I note of course the concerns noble Lords have expressed about the economic crime Bill, and I assure them that we are following that up directly with our colleagues in the Treasury.

I say to the noble Baroness and the noble Lords, Lord Purvis, Lord Collins and Lord Browne, that the Financial Action Task Force is an important institution that feels that we have one of the strongest systems in the world. However, we will continue to work to ensure that we take further action. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, mentioned specific questions he has asked me. I have literally just signed a letter to him, so on receipt of that, I am sure we will have further exchanges.

The issue of Russian influence on elections in the UK is of great concern. The Government themselves concluded that

“it is almost certain that Russian actors sought to interfere in the 2019 General Election through the online amplification of illicitly acquired and leaked Government documents.”—[Official Report, Commons, 16/7/20; col. 384WS.]

I will not comment any further at this point, as a criminal investigation is ongoing.

The noble Baroness, Lady Kramer, talked about the overseas territories and the legislation which has been passed. We are working closely with the OTs and indeed the Crown dependencies on the issue of public registers, and they have all committed to public registers of ownership by 2023.

The noble Baronesses, Lady Bennett and Lady Kramer, mentioned tier 1 visas. I have noted the detail of the specific questions asked. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, pointed to the response my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary gave. The Foreign Secretary and the Home Secretary are both seized of the important issues relating to the use of tier 1 visas, particularly those granted before the date of renewal, which was 5 April, and the use of such visas by those who seek to bring further disrepute to the United Kingdom. I will follow that up and will update the noble Baronesses accordingly.

Various countries were mentioned during what has been an intense debate about the actions taken. The noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, talked about Belarus. I pay tribute to his work and to that of others in your Lordships’ House in the Council of Europe. I met with the leader of the PACE delegation, and I am now the Minister looking after the Council of Europe; I look forward to engaging. Noble Lords referred to the importance of discussion and debate in the Council of Europe, particularly when the likes of Turkey and Russia are present. Certainly, from my own experience—others may challenge me—even with the worst foe or those you may feel most challenged by, you should never give up on the importance of discussion. I assure your Lordships that no one is taking aim at me. Nevertheless, this is an important point to consider, and I look forward to working with the delegation. I pay tribute to the noble Lord, Lord Foulkes, in particular, for adopting a prisoner. He has taken a very noble decision and perhaps others should reflect on that action. I am inclined to learn more about that initiative.

The noble Lord, Lord Alton, talked about Taiwan. The Government’s position has not changed, but as I have already acknowledged, the concerning situation and the ever-assertiveness of the Chinese Administration in the Taiwan Strait is a cause of great concern. This matter was very much discussed at the G7, and it continues to be an area of focus.

The noble Lord, Lord Griffiths, talked about Haiti. One thing I will share with noble Lords is that there was a crisis in Haiti in the midst of the Afghanistan crisis, and I was proud of the fact that, notwithstanding the challenge and the scrutiny of our response to Afghanistan, the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office also stood firm in its support of Haiti at a time of great challenge. This comes back to that central issue of values and action. Notwithstanding criticisms and challenge, we stand by those countries that need us—but, equally, this should be a co-ordinated, sustainable and long-term response.

My noble friend Lord Hannan and others talked about the situation in Tunisia. We saw Tunisia as one of the countries that came through the Arab spring positively, and it is important that we watch very carefully what happens there. My noble friend also talked of Pakistan, and there is a read-across to China. As we seek to strengthen, build and invest in relationships, particularly our people-to-people links, we also see the influence of other players, particularly China, in Pakistan—as he will have seen through my own direct engagement with the Prime Minister, the Foreign Minister and the Human Rights Minister. One challenging question from my side to theirs was: what about condemning the treatment of Uighurs? The response was deafening silence, so there is work to be done as we counter this.

The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, talked about Kazakhstan, as did the noble Viscount, Lord Waverley. As the Minister now responsible for central Asia, I am watching it very carefully. There is one positive we can take in terms of the support given by Russia and Belarus, as we have seen the structural withdrawal of those troops from Kazakhstan’s territory.

Other areas are part and parcel of our work on the world stage. I could talk about the work that we do through cyber and digital, which my noble friend Lord Howell pointed to, which brings both opportunities and challenges. The noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, pointed out the equal dignity of human beings. That should be the central aim of how we stand strong when it comes to human rights, whatever we stand for.

My noble friend Lord Hannan also talked about the importance of law and rules rather than the people who become the rulers themselves. Through our independent sanctions regime we are targeting those responsible for corruption and human rights violations around the world—in Myanmar, Belarus, China, Pakistan and Venezuela, to name a few. We also continue to lead on the Human Rights Council and the UN, which remain important parts of our focus.

On women and girls, as Nelson Mandela said:

“An educated, enlightened and informed population is one of the surest ways of promoting the health of a democracy.”


However, that can be put forward with strength only when we tackle gender inequality. That is a core part of the Government’s mission and right at the centre of the Foreign Secretary’s priorities.

During our G7 presidency, we rallied a new commitment to democracy. At the Cornwall summit, leaders pledged to harness the power of democracy. Yes, I assure noble Lords that whether it is in sub-Saharan Africa, on which my noble friend Lord Eccles focused, or with the multilateral initiatives we take—which were a mainstay of the contribution made by the noble Lord, Lord Hannay—we will continue to work and strengthen our work, including the Summit for Democracy, which was held in support of these aims and objectives.

To say a final word on the Council of Europe, that remains central to our thinking. I look forward to working with noble Lords quite directly to see how we can link in the work of what the Government are seeking to do with the important work of the Council of Europe, particularly on human rights.

To conclude, this has been an enriching debate. Again, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Browne, for the specifics that he drew attention to. There is an action plan on various areas of work, including tackling illicit finance and money laundering, but also standing up and strengthening democracies globally—as I said, not in a lecturing way, but in a way where we can share our rich and diverse experience for the health of democracies around the world.

I was asked questions about leadership and how we often look towards ourselves and our motivations. I am proud of the fact that our country is what it is—one that provides equality of opportunity. I am also reminded, as the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, reminded us all, that we must create a world in which democracy cannot just exist but flourish and thrive.

I end on the words of one of my personal heroes, Mahatma Gandhi, who said the following:

“Keep your thoughts positive because your thoughts become your words. Keep your words positive because your words become your behaviour. Keep your behaviour positive because your behaviour becomes your habits. Keep your habits positive because your habits become your values. Keep your values positive because your values become your destiny.”

Ministers: Overseas Travel

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 1st February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what value for money criteria they use to determine the choice of overseas travel arrangements for ministers.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, foreign travel is a vital part of diplomacy. The work that Ministers do overseas ultimately delivers for the British people. We have three government planes for government business. They are used by the Prime Minister and Ministers for precisely this purpose. This is standard practice and in the national interest. Every government decision is based on “value for money” in accordance with the Ministerial Code, and the FCDO publishes the costs related to overseas ministerial travel as part of the quarterly transparency return.

[Lord Berkeley (Lab)]

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that Answer and for quoting the Ministerial Code. I shall also quote from the code, at paragraph 10.2, which says in relation to overseas visits and their costs that

“Ministers will wish to be satisfied that their arrangements could be defended in public.”

The visit by the Foreign Secretary to Australia is reported to have cost half a million pounds, when there were plenty of scheduled flights. I understand that she would not want to be trussed up in economy, but she could go in business or first class. Is it really an expenditure that the Government can defend, to spend all this money—half a million—on one visit?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am not going to get into the figures; as I have already said, the Government are already very transparent on ministerial travel. There is a serious point to this: the Foreign Secretary is the lead diplomat for the United Kingdom. Travelling on commercial transport is often an option that she considers but, in the current environment, particularly when we have a crisis in Ukraine, as well as in terms of her receiving confidential briefings and being able to work directly with her team while travelling—and let us not forget also the security that accompanies her—it is quite right that a considered decision is taken at the appropriate time for each Minister. When compared to other countries, particularly those within the G7, this is very reflective of what our partners do.

[Baroness Foster of Oxton (Con)]

My Lords, first, I question the amount that was mooted in the press. Notwithstanding that, to wet-lease a long-haul commercial aircraft such as an Airbus A330 would cost approximately £6,000 per nautical mile. In this case, the Voyager—the government aircraft—costs around two-thirds less. In addition, we fly the flag. Therefore, does my noble friend agree that, quite rightly, the Royal Family takes precedence but it also makes sense that the Prime Minister and senior Ministers and officials should take full advantage of these facilities in the interests of the United Kingdom?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I totally agree with my noble friend, who has great insight.

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I repeat, just in case noble Lords opposite did not hear, that I agree with my noble friend, who, thanks to her own experience in the European Parliament, has great insight into the value and importance of diplomacy at the highest level. This is a serious business. There are many noble Lords across your Lordships’ House who fully understand and comprehend the importance of ministerial travel, particularly, when it comes to senior members of the Government such as the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary, the importance of both security and confidentiality in the meetings they conduct.

[Baroness Ludford (LD)]

When so many people are having to resort to food banks and are terrified about the rise in the cost of living, did the Foreign Secretary not display a rather Marie Antoinette “let them eat cake” attitude?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I know and work with the Foreign Secretary and frankly, that is not a suitable remark to make about the most senior diplomat in our country. She makes very considered decisions. We are going to have a Statement on Ukraine shortly: let us just reflect on that. There are many issues of international diplomatic importance—[Interruption.] The noble Baroness has asked me a question; she should do me the courtesy, at least, of listening to the response, even if she does not agree with it.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, there is another important issue here. There is the cost of this individual plane, but the Minister mentioned three planes. I have the Prime Minister’s letter here, and he talks about all government departments having an ambition on net zero. Just exactly how does the FCDO measure its ambitions on climate change when it has three planes sending a very small team across the world? No one disputes the need to travel, but surely the FCDO should take its climate-change ambitions seriously.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I have listened very carefully and let us be quite clear: this is not an FCDO plane. It is leased, as my noble friend pointed out, through the Cabinet Office and it is open to all Ministers at senior levels to make a considered decision for their department. On the important point the noble Lord makes, every flight contributes to the UK’s emissions trading scheme, and we pay a voluntary carbon offset credit for each flight taken.

[Lord Udny-Lister (Con)]

My Lords, does my noble friend agree that not only do these planes uphold the dignity of the state, but they are no more than workplaces for Ministers and their staff to discuss and manage things diplomatically and securely on long journeys?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend speaks with great insight about the serious decisions taken at the heart of government. Just for noble Lords’ interest, the Royal Air Force—as I said, this is government-wide, including planes provided for the Royal Family—has one A330, one commercially operated A321 and one BAE146. The United States has two VC-25s, eight C-32As and two C-40 Clippers. France—the list goes on. In the United Kingdom, the decisions taken on travel for every Minister of course take value for money into account. However, the Foreign Office, the Department for International Trade and a number of other departments undertake vital work internationally, and sometimes, as I have already said, when the Prime Minister or the Foreign Secretary travel, they not only travel with security but conduct business on those planes. This would not be possible on any commercial flight.

[Viscount Waverley (CB)]

My Lords, do government planes carry chargeable payloads to offset costs, thereby giving extra value for money to the taxpayer, and if not, why not?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I have already talked about the issue of the carbon footprint. In terms of the specifics, security assessments are taken. The schedules of these planes and flights can change very quickly. Indeed, when my right honourable friend was visiting Australia, she had to make adjustments to her schedule because of the crisis situation in Ukraine. These are not normal commercial flights; they have to adapt to ministerial needs and government priorities—and I know there are many noble Lords across this Chamber who know that.

[Baroness Randerson (LD)]

My Lords, the emissions from this flight would have been 3,955 pounds of CO₂. Does the Minister believe that that is good value for money in terms of Britain’s reputation? Would the best way of flying the flag not have been to have shown our environmental credentials and ensured that the Foreign Secretary flew in the most environmentally friendly way possible? Can the Minister assure us that the flights concerned were fully offset with tree planting, at the very least?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as I have said, decisions are taken on ministerial travel and when they concern those in the most senior positions, that is done with due consideration to their direct responsibilities—that includes my right honourable friend the Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary and others—while ensuring that there is value for money.

We are leaders when it comes to climate change—we are the COP president—as has been illustrated by the UK’s leadership on this agenda. On offshore wind, for example, we are world leaders. We continue to demonstrate real credentials and work with partners on this.

For the noble Baroness’s interest, as she has articulated Australia so specifically, the visit led to a number of important agreements with one of our key regional partners, including a cyber partnership and an agreement on closer UK-Australia co-operation on clean, honest and reliable infrastructure investment in the Indo-Pacific. The Foreign Secretary also signed a deal with South Australia to boost businesses, and she attended vital Australia-UK dialogues together with my right honourable friend the Defence Secretary. This is important diplomacy at an important time for this country, and I am sure many noble Lords support that.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea (Lab)]

My Lords, the reasons the Minister has given in justification—namely, security and the wish of Ministers to work while travelling—are surely applicable to all Ministers. Can we therefore expect more half-million-pound flights?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, it is not the wish of any Minister but a necessity. When we travel abroad—I have just returned this morning from abroad—we are working and reading on the plane. However, I am not at the most senior level of government. I am not the Foreign Secretary. The Foreign Secretary is responsible for many agencies’ work and has many papers to sign, as well as receiving confidential briefings. Therefore, a considered decision is taken. It is right that, particularly for the most senior people in government, decisions to travel are taken ensuring that security is kept in mind, but also that international affairs are the priority of the agenda.

Russia: Sanctions

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Tuesday 1st February 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I put on record my appreciation for the Minister telephoning yesterday and alerting me to the Statement. He is courteous and approachable, and it is very much appreciated. I hope that his overseas visit was a success. However, as the noble Lord indicated, a telephone meeting with President Putin was postponed and a maskless Foreign Secretary contracted Covid and was unable to travel. It is embarrassing to me, and perhaps others, that the whole world now follows what we see at home: failures in leadership and an increasingly grubby Government.

However, we support moves to shore up the ability to ensure that there is a severe economic response to unwarranted Russian aggression towards Ukraine. Two weeks before Christmas, the EU and the US reached an agreement on what expanded economic sanctions would be. Our announcement, which is welcome, is a consequence of this. But, as with most things, it has a little bit of overselling attached to it.

UK FDI stocks in Russia are currently £12.3 billion —an increase of 25% during Liz Truss’s tenure as International Trade Secretary. Since the unacceptable invasion of Crimea, UK FDI stock in Russia has gone up by 50%. What actions will the Government take to stem this flow? I previously asked what contingency arrangements are in place for guidance for UK businesses that are currently conducting legitimate business that will become illegitimate as a result of any actions. The European Central Bank has done a sensitivity study with banks on exposure to Russia. Has the Bank of England done the same? What guidance is being provided to global oil and energy trading and shipping insurance with trade with Russia, which is primarily done through the City of London and will be the target of US and other sanctions?

Can the Minister explain why economic crime has been downgraded in the UK over the last few years? When Ben Wallace was Minister of State for Security, he was Minister of State for Security and Economic Crime. Damian Hinds is Minister for Security and Borders. There is no Minister for economic crime. As my noble friend Lady Ludford said yesterday, although the Foreign Secretary has said that there will be “nowhere to hide” for Russian oligarchs and their money, they have been hiding in plain sight in Chelsea, Belgravia and Mayfair.

As a December report from Chatham House indicated, the grim details of London’s world centre of kleptocracy have created a wider malaise in England’s legal system. Given this Conservative Government’s inactivity, so clearly identified in Parliament’s Intelligence and Security Committee reports over many years, it is legitimate to ask whether the Government are crying wolf again.

Yesterday, the Business Minister was unable to give details of what will be in the economic crime Bill. The noble Lord, Lord Young of Norwood Green, asked the Home Office Minister, the noble Baroness, Lady Williams, why there have been

“few, if any, successful prosecutions”

on unexplained wealth orders. She replied:

“There have been some, and as I have explained to the House, it is quite complex and sometimes these things are very difficult to secure. There is more work to be done.”


Of course these are difficult and complex matters, but they will not be less so next week. Therefore, that is not an excuse for inaction.

Referring to President Putin, the noble Lord, Lord Austin of Dudley, asked:

“given that he has invaded Crimea, assassinated his opponents here in the UK and looted Russia’s economy, thereby impoverishing … Russian citizens, why have the Government not considered doing this anyway?”

Under the anti-corruption regulations, those that will be in scope under the new measures are currently in scope for sanctions. The Minister replied:

“The noble Lord is absolutely right. I am not party to some of the discussions going on in the FCDO and elsewhere, but he highlights the point that we have a major problem with regard to the influence here.”—[Official Report, 31/1/22; cols. 617-18.]


I think that the whole House welcomed that admission, after months of denials by the Government. We have a major problem, and if we are now being asked to put in place new measures, which may well be welcome, we have legitimate questions to ask about this Government’s motivation to properly clamp down on those who are doing us harm.

Will the Government finally accept the case for fast-tracking beneficial ownership legislation and the Bill that has been introduced in the Commons by Layla Moran MP? Will they urgently accept the amendments on golden visas proposed by my noble friend Lord Wallace of Saltaire? If the Government are serious about this, they have two key opportunities now—will they take them?

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, first, I thank both noble Lords for their support. I fully accept that it is right that we are challenged with questions as Ministers and on important issues such as the situation in Ukraine. It is important when we look towards Ukraine that the Government, together with all parties and voices across both Houses of Parliament, come together in calling out the challenging and ever-increasing presence of Russian troops, almost in a crescent shape, across Ukraine and Belarus; this is causing particular concern in the eastern part of the country. There is also the annexation of Crimea, of course.

Notwithstanding us having just done a Question on ministerial travel and where Ministers wish to work— as I said to the noble Lord, Lord Anderson, it is a requirement that we work beyond what we may be conducting in our business—I am grateful to both noble Lords. I also sought to call the noble and learned Lord, Lord Judge. I hope that he received the message I had to leave for him; I regret that I was unable to speak to him in advance.

The noble Lords, Lord Collins and Lord Purvis, rightly asked questions on various issues of illicit finance. I will certainly outline some of the steps that the Government have taken on the specific issue of the economic crime Bill, which was raised by both noble Lords. This also came up in the other place with my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, and my right honourable friend the Prime Minister reiterated, during the democracy summit, the Government’s commitment to seeking to introduce it this year. I assure noble Lords that I have also made sure, in terms of my own responsibilities at the Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office, of the importance of this Bill.

In terms of what the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, raised about what will be in the Bill, the Government have already, as he will be aware, produced the national economic crime plan; there are various elements within that. We created the National Economic Crime Centre in 2018 and, including previous legislation, there was the ground-breaking Criminal Finances Act 2017. In addition, the recent UK spending review announced new investment of £18 million in 2022-23 and £12 million per year in 2023-25 for economic crime reforms, as well as £63 million to reform Companies House, which will go in part towards addressing some of the issues that noble Lords have raised, on beneficial ownership in particular.

I note the Bill that the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, pointed to. Of course, the Government are committed. I took through the legislation—with the noble Lord, Lord Collins, as I recall, on the Opposition Benches—of the SAMLA Bill. We gave a commitment and continue to work, for example, with our overseas territories. We have exchange of notes operational with key members of the overseas territories family, but they are all now committed to ensuring that operational public registers are fully functional by 2023.

Sanctions were mentioned, which I also want to bring into the context of the point that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, raised about Russia. When we introduced the global human rights sanctions regime, as noble Lords will be aware, we broadened the scope. The global anticorruption sanctions regime has been used specifically to target those individuals from Russia, sanctioning 14 individuals involved in the $230 million tax fraud in Russia uncovered by Sergei Magnitsky himself.

I know that my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary alluded to the issue of tier 1 visas. Of course, while this is a Home Office lead, it also involves the National Crime Agency, and we will continue to bring the full weight of law enforcement to those who threaten the security of the UK and our allies. More broadly, the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, asked about the current changes we are bringing and the remit—that is, which individuals and organisations they would apply to. Just to be clear, under the current regime, the UK has been able to sanction only individuals linked to the destabilisation or undermining of the territorial integrity of Ukraine. This new approach, with the governance structures—I am not talking specifically about who or which organisation may be designated—will allow us to target any company that is linked to the Russian state, engages in business of economic significance to the Russian state or operates in a sector of strategic significance to the Russian state. The noble Lord, Lord Purvis, mentioned a number of those sectors.

Of course, I will work—as I have previously—with noble Lords across the House, but particularly with the Front Benches, to bring both greater detail through direct questions in your Lordships’ House and more detailed insights on the approach. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, will smile at this, but I am not going to speculate on the individuals or organisations that may be sanctioned under this broader regime. Of course, the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, is right that there are implications in certain key sectors. The issue of guidance and not just the implications for those who may be sanctioned but the wider impact on those sectors and industries is an important consideration. I assure the noble Lord that that is very much part of our thinking.

If I may, I have a final point, which picks up on some of the questions that the noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked about specific acts and specific points. I will, of course, follow up my letter to the noble Lord, Lord Collins, as well and copy in the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, and other noble Lords.

On the point that the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, raised about leadership, he may be aware—but he may not be—that my right honourable friend the Prime Minister is currently en route to Ukraine; he may well have arrived. He is having talks directly with President Zelensky. We are also announcing further support of £88 million, particularly looking more broadly at the economic and energy impacts of any steps that Russia may take. The noble Lord raised the issue of the call to President Putin. That is being prioritised, looked at and arranged. Certainly, we hope that it will happen very soon.

On the general point about my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary, the noble Lord said that, again, it shows a lack of British leadership. I challenge him in this respect. Looking back over the last two months at the engagement of my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary on the issue of Ukraine, on 1 December, she met the Ukrainian Foreign Minister, and on 2 December, she met the Russian Foreign Minister. I am sure I speak for all noble Lords around your Lordships’ House in wishing my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary a speedy and full recovery. She is certainly looking to undertake her responsibilities in terms of engaging directly in Moscow. She announced yesterday that she is looking to travel to Moscow within the timeline of the next two weeks; subject to her recovery and ensuring that all processes are in place, we are looking to do exactly that.

My right honourable friend has also met with the G7, as the Prime Minister has already. On 13 December, he had a call with President Putin. He had a further call with the Ukrainian president, President Zelensky, whom he is visiting. The Foreign Secretary had a phone call with members of the OSCE. She had phone calls with UN Secretary Blinken on 23 December—to name just one of them—and with the EU policy chief, Josep Borrell. On 30 December, she had a phone call with Foreign Minister Le Drian, Secretary Blinken and German Foreign Minister Baerbock, and, most recently, she had a call with the German Foreign Minister. My colleague, Minister Heaton-Harris, spoke with Deputy Foreign Minister Titov on 26 January. The Foreign Secretary had a call with the Dutch Foreign Minister on 1 February, and, as I said, she intends to visit Moscow, health permitting.

I can provide a full list of engagements. I have not counted other Ministers; indeed, I hope to be in Estonia next week as part of our responsibilities on the Media Freedom Coalition. However, part of my engagement with the Estonian Foreign Minister, where our troops are based, will be on the situation of Ukraine.

[The Lord Speaker (Lord McFall of Alcluith)]

My Lords, the noble Lord, Lord Campbell-Savours, is taking part remotely. I invite him to speak.

[Lord Campbell-Savours (Lab) [V]]

My Lords, during last Wednesday’s Statement to the House, I suggested that, prior to supporting a proxy war military intervention, and now sanctions, all concerned should read material from the National Security Archive at George Washington University, which reveals assurances given to the Soviets on NATO expansion—an issue at the heart of the Russian case. Was my suggestion followed up or ignored? Will not those undertakings given to the Russians not go away and, in the end, become central to this whole debate on both sanctions and the potential for conflict?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The noble Lord is right on his specific suggestion but, on his broader point about the importance of diplomacy, that is exactly what Her Majesty’s Government are doing, along with our key partners. It is important, though, that Russia also recognises that it is about its actions. Let us not forget that Crimea was annexed—what, eight years ago?—and it has subsequently continued to take aggressive stances on the borders of Ukraine. I said earlier that we have now seen over 100,000 Russian troops amassing across three different fronts. These are not mere exercises; they are attempts to intimidate Ukraine. It is important that we stand with Ukraine and underline the support that we give to it, including what the sanction would be if there was a Russian incursion or invasion into any parts of Ukrainian territory. It is important that Russia understands that message, which is articulated not just by the United Kingdom but by us and our allies. I assure the noble Lord that the door of diplomacy, as I said in my previous answer, is very much open and the UK is at the forefront of that.

[Lord Trefgarne (Con)]

My Lords, is it not possible to secure the involvement of the United Nations Security Council more fully in the Ukrainian situation? Is that not the formula we followed back in 1982 when, despite Russian resistance, Resolution 503 was duly passed? It authorised, among other things, the noble Lord, Lord West—Commander West, as he then was—to set sail for the south Atlantic. Sadly, 22 of his brave colleagues did not return.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I am very appreciative, as I often say, for the insights, experience and wisdom within your Lordships’ House. On the specific point that my noble friend raises in relation to the United Nations, as he will note, a meeting on this very issue took place at the Security Council. On initiatives which could be taken, we should never close the route to diplomacy. I believe Russia is now in the chair of the UN Security Council, so surely there is a greater onus on the presidency to demonstrate how it can bring different countries together.

[Lord Alton of Liverpool (CB)]

My Lords, I welcome the balance that the Minister and the Foreign Secretary have struck between maximising the pain for corrupt, mafia-like elites while minimising damage for ordinary Russians, who have suffered quite enough under Vladimir Putin. Can the Minister say whether cutting Moscow from the SWIFT financial system and cancelling the Russian Nord Stream 2 gas pipeline are being given serious consideration in the event of an invasion of Ukraine? Will he also elaborate on the co-ordination of the efforts with our closest allies that he has been describing to the House?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I can certainly provide more details on the noble Lord’s second question. Yes, we are working with key allies, as I indicated, over the course of the last two months and beyond. We have been working with our key European allies and directly with the EU. We have been working with the United States, as well as partners further afield, on how we can act together on the situation in Ukraine. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, mentioned the importance of sanctions and working together in a co-ordinated fashion. I assure the House that we are doing exactly that. On the first question of the noble Lord, Lord Alton, I fear that if I was to say anything further it would run to speculation. But, as my right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary said yesterday in the House of Commons, whether our approach is diplomatic or looking at the issue of economics and the cost of Russia, everything is very much on the table.

[Lord Grocott (Lab)]

My Lords, further to the question of my noble friend Lord Campbell-Savours, can the Minister tell us, as and when the Prime Minister talks to President Putin—inevitably, the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO will be raised as a Russian concern—what precisely is the Government’s position on the possibility of Ukraine joining NATO?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Lord knows, on the central point of Ukraine joining NATO, it is first and foremost a defensive alliance. A country can make an application and it is considered by all members of NATO. No country should be told specifically that it cannot be a member of a particular alliance; it is very much for Ukraine to request its membership and for members of NATO to decide.

[Lord Wallace of Saltaire (LD)]

My Lords, the presentation in Washington has often been—as I have seen in recent days—that the United Kingdom has only really acted under American pressure. That does not look good in Washington. Can the Minister reassure us that that was not the case? While we are tackling this issue, late as we are to it, can the Government ensure that we take a broader attitude to the question of Russian influence within the British elite, which the ISC Russia report flagged up three years ago? We need now to deal with not just the immediate question of the Ukraine crisis; there is a much broader question. Lastly, have the Government done any impact assessment of, for example, the implications for the property market in London and the south-east of imposing sanctions?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

On the noble Lord’s last point, I suppose I should declare an interest: I am a property owner in London and the south-east. In all seriousness, without going into too much detail, as I said—and I know that the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, had to leave, but I recognise the courtesy extended by his note to me—we are looking at the broader impact, as the noble Lord indicated.

On the issue of engagement in Washington, I assure the House that we have been engaging on the front foot. Let us not forget that we have been engaging on this issue longer than the current US Administration. We have always made the case as strong partners of Ukraine—one can ask Ministers present and past in the Ukrainian Government. I have sat with a number of them at the United Nations who have indicated their strong support, not through us asking them, but quite genuinely, for the leadership the United Kingdom has showed in solidarity, support and friendship for Ukraine.

[Lord Walney (CB)]

My Lords, the House will understand when the Minister says that it is not in the Government’s gift alone to remove Russia from the SWIFT financial system, but he can say, can he not, if they believe it would be a proportionate measure, if the invasion of Ukraine goes ahead?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I know the noble Lord is probing me for more details, but I shall not say any more. I am fully aware of the sensitivity and impact where such steps are taken. As noble Lords will have followed, and as I sought to inform those on the other three Benches in your Lordships’ House, the broader nature of what we can do once the legislation is effected will allow us to sanction organisations and individuals much more broadly and at direct cost to those entities which are Russian or which are owned by Russian entities and operating within the UK.

[Lord Bellingham (Con)]

My Lords, in the event of general economic sanctions being applied—obviously, let us hope that the diplomatic measures that the Minister outlined will bear fruit—given that Russia and Ukraine between them produce one-third of the world’s wheat supply, we will probably see a massive hike in the price of wheat. What assessment have the Government made of the impact of that on UK food prices, and what contingencies are being put in place to find alternate supplies?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, my noble friend raises a very important point. I think the implications of any sanctions and support are well recognised. I point my noble friend specifically to the steps we have taken just now in support of Ukraine directly, which will be impacted in the first instance, and the new funding I alluded to earlier, looking specifically at the issue of Russian energy supplies. That indicates the seriousness with which the UK recognises the impact of such sanctions.

However, it is important that Russia understands very clearly and unequivocally that its actions of not just taking but retaining territory, annexing territory, as it is threatening to do now further in Ukraine are firmly unacceptable, not just to us but to our allies and the world community generally. Therefore, it is in Russia’s hand to reflect on what is being said, but this is serious. This is a serious point in the crisis, and it is therefore important that we engage diplomatically and directly. That is why my right honourable friend the Prime Minister and the Foreign Secretary have said directly to their respective counterparts that they wish to meet to discuss with them. One hopes that the diplomatic channel will bear fruit.

[Lord Browne of Ladyton (Lab)]

My Lords, like other Members of this House, I support the sanctions that were announced in this Statement. It is crucial that we do not undermine the steps that our Government are taking to get the message to the Russians. The problem is that if the Russians read the international press today, they will get a very different message. The headline in the Washington Post is:

“Britain, the tough-on-Russia ally, is being undermined by London”.


On Bloomberg.com it is:

“‘Londongrad’ Undermines U.K.’s Tough Talk on Russia Sanctions”.


In the Sydney Morning Herald—with the Secretary of State having just come back from there after a very important visit—it is:

“Billions parked in ‘Londongrad’ undermines Britain’s tough talk on Russia sanctions”.


We can impose sanctions on all of the people identified in this very welcome Statement, but we will not be able to seize their assets because we do not know who owns the assets. If we have to wait until 2023 to have a register that allows our Government to know who owns the assets, then these sanctions will deter no one.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, London already operates a public register. When I referred to 2023, that was in the context of our overseas territories. We already have a scheme for OTs, called the exchange of notes, which the noble Lord will be aware of. I know directly through its operation, and through speaking to, for example, tax authorities and crime agencies, that they are able to access the necessary information. However, I agree with the noble Lord that there is more to be done on this issue. I outlined some of our plans for greater transparency at Companies House to show greater levels of ownership. I assure the noble Lord that the broadening of what we are seeking to do through the legislation proposed will allow us to target individuals and organisations quite specifically and to freeze their assets as well.

[Lord Stirrup (CB)]

My Lords, the Minister and others have referred to an invasion of Ukraine as a trigger for sanctions. Can the Minister tell me what that invasion will look like? Does it include cyberattacks? Does it include subversion by special forces, who are already in parts of Ukraine, and other such grey activities? How are we going to identify an invasion if the 100,000 troops massed there are just there for strong-arming and for show and will not themselves actually be involved?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I alluded to the expertise and insights in your Lordships’ House, and perhaps I should be posing this question to the noble and gallant Lord, who has great insight. The activities of the Russian state and those supported by the Russian state already include such things as the noble Lord alluded to. That has seen some action being taken by the United Kingdom and our key allies and partners. What is very clear is that the physical movement of troops—again, the noble and gallant Lord will know this far better than I—is a real statement of what may come next. To just pass it off as military manoeuvres when the whole of the eastern borders of Ukraine have over 100,000 Russian troops in occupancy is a great cause for concern. Therefore, what we are seeking to do through the Statement, and, importantly, through the widening of legislation and action—be it economic action—is to demonstrate to Russia the real willingness of the alliance and our partners within NATO and Europe to stand up against such further aggression.

As I said, eight years ago Crimea was annexed illegally. No further attempts were made to withdraw troops. I went to Ukraine before Christmas, and saw the anxiety. The massing of troops in Belarus, not that far from Kiev, is causing particular concern, and it is important that we make Statements accordingly. However, behind those Statements must be concerted action.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, following on from what the noble Lord, Lord Browne, said, when the Soviet Union collapsed just over 30 years ago, people had very little private property. Within a decade, some people had riches beyond the dreams of avarice. Some of that was made legitimately, but a great deal was assets of the Russian state looted by gangsters. A lot of that money then came here. Why are we not pursuing unexplained wealth orders on these people? They have all the money in plain sight and we should be pursuing them now.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I praise my noble friend’s impeccable timing, as my dear and noble friend Lady Williams is sitting to my right. My noble friend talked about the issue of these unexplained wealth orders and we have acted. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked earlier about the detail. The same applies for sanctions or any other step that we may take. There is a positive, in that even those with the most sinister motives have, within the United Kingdom, the rule of law. We need to ensure that, whether we are talking of these orders or of sanctions, due process is followed, and with a robustness which allows those sanctions or orders to prevail. The Home Office takes this very seriously, as does the Home Secretary. I assure my noble friend that we will act accordingly.

[Lord West of Spithead (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister will be aware that our agencies have a very good idea already about where certain money is, who has it and who it belongs to in these chains, particularly with their links to the City and the people they talk to. Can the Minister assure me that we have been monitoring very closely any movements of money and changes of pattern, because the Russians will be very aware that this is about to happen? Can he also confirm that, as a number of noble Lords have said, we are in a position to move and to hammer these people the moment that this happens, rather than having to wait two or three years for legislation? We are able to do things like that if we put our minds to it. The great joy is that, as a member of the ISC, in two years I will be able to see all the evidence of whether anyone was doing that.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, of course the Government take these issues very seriously. Often when we talk about sanctions, we talk about where the Government may be looking to sanction an individual or an organisation, and we resist, for the very reasons that the noble Lord illustrates. Giving any intimation or indication of who or what company may be targeted will lead to funds being withdrawn, if assets are held in the United Kingdom. Therefore, we look to be informed by our agencies across the piece, but it is also important to look to the application of law. There are many wise heads within your Lordships’ House on this very issue. We ensure that the letter of the law is applied fairly to any action that the Government may take. Before such a measure is taken, the background and supporting evidence is considered very carefully at a cross-government level. The noble Lord refers to various agencies, and we have some of the best—arguably the best in the world. Their contributions are important to any final decision that the Government take.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, I wonder whether the Minister can help me with the question of the breadth of sanctions which are to be sought. There is a passage in the Statement which says that:

“We will be able to target any company that is linked to the Russian state”.—[Official Report, Commons, 31/1/22; cols. 55-56.]


Of course, every Russian company is linked to the state under an obligation to report any information which may help to advance the policies of the Russian Government. The effect of this would be that the Government are seeking power to target any Russian company, whether it has a connection with Ukraine or with the United Kingdom.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I have already talked through the broader nature of what we as a Government will be allowed to do through legislation. This is enabling legislation. When we look at each individual designation—be it an individual or an organisation—that will be considered very carefully. However, it is important that Russia recognises that its actions in Ukraine are being not just noticed but acted upon. Therefore, it is important that we are seen to act, and to act with our partners accordingly.

Ukraine: Minsk II Protocol

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Wednesday 26th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, the Government support the Minsk protocols to deliver peaceful resolution to the conflict in full respect of Ukrainian sovereignty and territorial integrity. We have condemned Russia’s aggressive acts and are working closely with our allies and partners to hold Russia to the commitments it signed up to freely, including the Helsinki Final Act, the Minsk protocols and the Budapest memorandum.

[Lord Truscott (Non-Afl)]

I thank the Minister for that reply. The problem is that Russia does not see NATO as a defensive alliance—rather, it sees it as a group of countries, some of which are openly hostile to Russia, refusing to give any security guarantees while expanding eastwards to Russia’s borders. Unfortunately, the memories of NATO’s bombings of Tripoli and Belgrade are fresh. We are facing a very different series of global threats since the Atlantic alliance was formed in 1949. President Macron talked about a new security framework for Europe; perhaps this is something Her Majesty’s Government should think about to secure lasting peace for future generations.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble Lord will be aware, NATO is a defensive alliance. It was interesting to hear in the recent Statement of my right honourable friend the Defence Secretary—this is relevant to what we are discussing—that only 1/16th of the Russian border is actually shared with a NATO country. NATO is a defensive alliance, and it remains so. It is serving its purpose. We are working in unity, because what is required now is not just unity of words —it is unity of purpose and, indeed, unity of action.

[Lord Robathan (Con)]

My Lords, I have just been to a meeting with the Ukrainian ambassador, where we discussed the Budapest memorandum. These were assurances given by the Russian Federation in 1994 that it would respect the sovereignty of Ukraine, which, of course, included the borders with Crimea. Putin has reneged on this. Should the international community not come together and condemn this bad faith from Putin and now the Russian Federation, and do it both at the United Nations and elsewhere?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with my noble friend that what we have seen from Russia is pure aggression. We should not forget that it is an occupying power in Crimea. We have come together; we are acting together within the context of the NATO alliance. My noble friend importantly points to discussions at the UN, and I assure him that we are engaging directly with partners but also bilaterally with Russia.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, the Normandy format is still of great importance. Are there any British officials taking part in the talks in Paris today under the Normandy process? The Minister knows that part of the Minsk II agreement is over the area of disputed territorial lines. The Prime Minister told the House of Commons yesterday:

“I think what we need to do, if I may say so, is build up an instant, automatic package of western sanctions that will come in automatically in the event of a single toecap of a Russian incursion into more of Ukraine.”—[Official Report, Commons, 25/1/22; col. 872.]


Is there agreement among all the western powers and our allies about what qualifies as incursion? We may well be asked to legislate in haste. Therefore, it is vital to know what an incursion is.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on sanctions, let me assure the noble Lord—I know this is of interest to all noble Lords—that we are working very closely with all our allies and partners, particularly those who have such regimes. This is not an empty threat; this is a clear sanction against Russia for any incursion it makes in terms of territorial sovereignty. On noble Lord’s first question: that is not a group the UK directly participates in. We are aware of the meeting today; it is being held at political advisers’ level, and Russia is participating. I have seen some of the detail emerging, and I would not hold out too much hope as yet.

[Lord Morris of Aberavon (Lab)]

My Lords, as a young NATO soldier, I was occasionally in charge of the nightly train from Hanover to Berlin, to establish our rights of passage, despite Russian intransigence. Will the Government, while continuing to affirm our rights, use every diplomatic means to reduce fears of any expansion of NATO that may not have much practical importance?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, as the noble and learned Lord will know from his own experience, insight and expertise, it is for a country to make an application to NATO. NATO is a defensive alliance, and when an application is made, a procedure is followed for allowing entry to new members. On the wider point about engaging with Russia and ensuring that every diplomatic channel is open, we are doing exactly that: there is extensive diplomatic engagement at every level, including from my right honourable friend the Prime Minister, my right honourable friends the Foreign Secretary and the Defence Secretary, and other Ministers.

[Baroness Stuart of Edgbaston (CB)]

My Lords, if you follow on a daily basis the press reporting in both France and Germany, there is a narrative developing, that if only the United Kingdom and the US were less alarmist, the tensions could be reduced. That shows that reliable information is becoming increasingly important. I urge the Minister to look at two things: whether the BBC World Service is sufficiently covering the area; and whether those within the FCDO have the required language skills to ensure they are on top of any information that is coming out?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, on the noble Baroness’s second point, the FCDO has established language skills training for diplomats, and we engage directly, through those language skills, with countries around the world. Of course, there is always room to do more. I will follow up the matter that she raises about the BBC and see whether more can be done, but, of course, that is directly a decision for the BBC.

[Lord Balfe (Con)]

My Lords, does the Minister not accept that the Minsk II agreement has not been implemented on either side, and that what we need is to get negotiations going on an open basis between Russia and Ukraine, with the help of the French and the Germans, so that we can dial down the tensions and not keep on inching towards conflict, which is going to do no good to anyone and end up with body bags being sent back to Britain?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, no one wants to see body bags. But it is for Russia—Russia is the aggressor here. A key point is Crimea: Russia is occupying, under international law, sovereign territory of another country. We should not lose sight of that. We are seeking to work with our alliances, including NATO. We are working with key partners, and I have assured noble Lords that we continue to engage directly with the Russians as well.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the Minister refers to action required to stop Russia taking this aggressive act. On Tuesday, Boris Johnson told the House of Commons that the Government were bringing forward a register of beneficial ownership as part of their efforts to track down Russian money in this country. However, the noble Lord, Lord Agnew, who had oversight of counterfraud, revealed in his resignation letter to Boris Johnson on Monday that, in a decision apparently taken last week, the economic crime Bill has been rejected for consideration during the next parliamentary year. Who is correct? I know who I believe.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, first, I acknowledge from our side, and indeed from across the House, the valuable services of my noble friend Lord Agnew, who served this House well. I recognise the important role he has played. As someone who has great respect for my noble friend, I listened carefully to the statement he made. The issue of illicit finance is important and it is a key priority for this Government. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister has committed once again to ensuring that we weed out the fact that London is still used—I fully accept this—as a base for money laundering and illicit finance by some. We need to take further action. On the specific point about the Bill, I will refer to my colleagues at the Treasury and write to the noble Lord.

[The Lord Bishop of St Albans]

My Lords, it is right that we attend to the situation in Russia, but Ukraine is a deeply divided country. The situation is not helped by, for example, Ukraine’s decision three years ago to make Ukrainian the national language, precluding the involvement of some 50% of Russians in the south and east of the country, who speak only Russian. What are Her Majesty’s Government doing to bring economic development and social cohesion to try to strengthen and bolster the life of Ukraine, as it faces this threat?

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The right reverend Prelate is of course correct that it is important to recognise the diversity of different communities, and indeed different people, within Ukraine. Ukraine is a partner and we are working in a very constructive way. While the focus right now is rightly on the security of Ukraine, I assure the right reverend Prelate that we have a full range of programmes, relating to both the economic empowerment of countries and communities and working with civil society. I visited Ukraine just before Christmas and saw directly, for example, how faith communities are working together. There is a lot of work still to be done, but we are working directly and constructively with Ukraine in various areas.

Afghanistan (International Relations and Defence Committee Report)

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Monday 24th January 2022 Grand Committee

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, I join others in recording my special thanks to my noble friend Lady Anelay. I have known her for my full stint of what is now approaching 10 years on the Front Bench of the House of Lords.

[Noble Lords]

Oh!

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

Indeed, my noble friend was my first mentor and remains not just a noble friend but a friend in its true essence. In joining others, I pay tribute to her and all members of the committee for their report and the various levels of engagement we have had.

I share the view of the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, as articulated by the noble Lord, Lord Collins, that although we meet a year on from the publication of this report its findings and recommendations are very much part and parcel of our thinking. They are as relevant today as they were 12 months ago. As to the reasons why this debate had not been scheduled earlier, I must be honest and say I really do not know. I think the usual channels will have taken note. For my part, and I hope noble Lords will feel this, it is not just that I assumed responsibilities for our relationships with south Asia in 2019. Since then, I have sought to engage directly not only with various partners but with noble Lords on this important issue, during the crisis and subsequently. I am grateful to those noble Lords who attended part of the regular programme of briefings that focused on Afghanistan just before the Christmas break. I give noble Lords an absolute, categorical assurance that I will continue to engage specifically.

I also put on record my thanks to many noble Lords who are here today and others who worked with me, notwithstanding differences—many questions and challenges have been put to me on the Government’s response. When it came to the practical response, we leveraged the maximum level of expertise to ensure that the people who needed our help could get it at whatever time of the day or night, certainly during the evacuation and Operation Pitting but also subsequently.

The noble Baroness, Lady Smith, raised the British Council. I hope she will appreciate and recognise that I have paid personal attention to this issue. I assure her that, through the various discussions I have with colleagues, particularly at the Home Office, the three cohorts we agreed to support through resettlement schemes, the British Council, Chevening and GardaWorld, will be fully supported. I cannot announce anything today, but I am in the process of finalising the exact contacts with each organisation. They are directly engaged on the people we continue to assist over that scheme.

I recognise the valuable contributions of all noble Lords in this important debate. It is incredible to think that the report was published a year ago. As noble Lords said, a lot has happened since. First and foremost, I shall reflect on the points made about the NATO withdrawal. The great thing about your Lordships’ House is, as I say regularly, the expertise and insights provided. That has been reflected in today’s debate. I agree with other noble Lords that it is a shame that we perhaps do not receive attention.

I note the contribution of the noble Lord, Lord Hannay, who talked about the importance of the original NATO decision. As a Minister of State, you make your contributions and you make your case, and I know that representations were made with the then President of the United States, President Trump, and his team, and subsequently with the Biden Administration, as noble Lords will recognise. My right honourable friend the Prime Minister sought an extension of the programme right until the end of Operation Pitting. Unfortunately, once the US decided to pull out troops—I recognise the points made by several noble Lords—NATO partners together decided that they would be unable to continue with the mission on the ground. However, it is very clear to me that the reality is we cannot, should not and will not turn our back on Afghanistan and, most importantly, its people.

I agree with my noble friend Lady Fall: whatever decisions were taken—I agree with her assessment of the decisions taken when the focus began on withdrawal from the Resolute Support Mission on 1 May—once the key leverage was given away, which was the date, it was not a question of if the Taliban would take over; it was simply a question of when. As the events of August demonstrated, the challenges became all too apparent. There was almost a domino effect. I know from speaking to people who have arrived here, as I have done directly with Afghan leaders, particularly women leaders, that even they did not expect that 15 August would be the date that the Taliban took over Kabul. Some were on planes and some were at their departments. Indeed, negotiations were still taking place, as brave leaders who continue to be on the ground have shared with me.

The UK accepts the reality of the situation and has played an active role in building a new international approach since the Taliban takeover through the UN Security Council, the G20, the G7, NATO and our direct engagement with countries in the region. The noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone, spoke about the history of Afghanistan. It is a country torn by conflict, not just in recent times but over many centuries. Nevertheless, what happened over the past 20 years was a change in the people of Afghanistan. There is a new generation of empowered women. It did not mean that there was no corruption—there was—but there were new hopes of new beginnings with an educated population.

Yet, after the withdrawal of NATO forces, we have seen a regression—that is probably an understatement—in what has been achieved on the ground. The Government have been absolutely clear about their priorities, which remain that we wish to ensure safe passage for those who wish to leave the country. As several noble Lords have said, we want to prevent foreign terrorist fighters travelling in or out of Afghanistan. We remain committed to human rights in Afghanistan and the important issue of humanitarian aid.

The noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, spoke about the importance of women and the importance of judges. Again, I thank her for her efforts; she and I have engaged extensively on this issue. The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked for specific updates. The information that I have is that the UK has offered a home to more than 20 Afghan judges and prosecutors. I have met some of them, including their dependants. I can share with noble Lords that we are working with like-minded Governments, as the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, will note, to see how we can co-ordinate our efforts better for those who are still outside Afghanistan but in a third country to ensure their final settlement. I look forward to working with the noble Baroness on this important issue.

On the evacuations and resettlement, we have talked about Operation Pitting, which was the biggest and fastest emergency evacuation. I know there have been challenges and questions, but I saw the early planning for the operation, and the fact that it was stood up—notwithstanding the fluid situation where we had no engagement with the Taliban and did not know how they would react—and that 15,000 people left is an important testament, as noble Lords, including my noble friend Lord Balfe and the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, have acknowledged. Indeed, the United Kingdom did not just help our own cohorts to leave; we also helped 36 other countries and their nationals.

The noble Lord, Lord Kerr, asked specifically about the resettlement schemes and the announcements that have been made. I can share that the original figure of 5,000 for year 1 has been exceeded and we are nearer 7,000. The 450 people already here will be counted within that 7,000, but the scheme remains very much open to others as they come through. The people who came through the ARAP scheme, and British nationals and their dependants, are not counted within that 5,000 or the 20,000 over the four-year period. I hope that is clear.

I join noble Lords in recognising the important role that our Army and indeed our diplomats played in this unprecedented evacuation under the most challenging circumstances. I can further share that since the end of Operation Pitting the UK has now supported 3,400 individuals to leave Afghanistan. This includes over 1,200 British nationals and qualifying dependants. I assure noble Lords that we will continue to help those in Afghanistan to depart the country, including holding the Taliban to their commitment to ensure safe passage.

Various schemes continue to operate. I assure the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, that ARAP remains open. The noble Baroness, Lady Blackstone, asked about various schemes that were operating. I fully accept that in the challenge of Operation Pitting there could have been greater clarification about how each scheme operated. When we talk about lessons learned, it has to be about much more than that: clarity, how we work a filter and how we can ensure that people are directed. I very much recognise how I would feel if I were at the other end of trying to get people out and receiving desperate emails. Actually I was receiving such emails directly and, truth be told, yes, there were many moments of frustration and exasperation, but you have to battle through. I may disappoint the noble Lord, but I have no intention of taking the decision that my noble friend took earlier today in your Lordships’ House; to me, if you are going to effect change—and perhaps I am being slightly starry-eyed about this—it is important to stay within to see what can be done. That was certainly my attitude in working with others on ensuring that this could be achieved in the best way possible.

The noble Lord, Lord Boateng, spoke passionately and I share his views. We are the UK; we are a country. Like his, my own family is testament to the opportunities afforded to people who migrate to the UK, make a life of their own and are able to contribute. We recognise that as Afghans arrive here in the UK, they should be given that warm reception to ensure that they too can rebuild their lives. They are starting with nothing. We need to ensure that those in temporary accommodation are brought through to permanent accommodation, and I assure all noble Lords that we are working closely not just with the Home Office but with the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities to ensure accommodation. There are regular meetings chaired at a very senior level to ensure that there is co-ordination in that respect.

I recognise that another important role is that of local authorities; again, the noble Lord, Lord Boateng, pointed to this. We are currently working with 300 local authorities and have pledged to support families. We have made it clear that those who arrive through this safe and legal route will be granted indefinite leave to remain. I recognise what the noble Lord, Lord Kerr, said but we are providing support to families and councils. Of course, this is about the whole offer, not just housing; it is also about, for example, healthcare and education for children.

On humanitarian support, let me say from the outset that I attended a conference in Uzbekistan just three weeks prior to Operation Pitting and the fall of Kabul. Every player was there, including President Ghani and Foreign Minister Atmar from Afghanistan, the United States, Turkey and Afghanistan’s near neighbour, Pakistan. I engaged directly with each and every one of them. Although the inevitability of a Taliban takeover was understood, no one—not even President Ghani, in his final conversation with me— perceived how quickly it would happen. However, what was clear was the need for co-ordination and, as soon as that was clear, we engaged with the UN over several months.

During the crisis and as the Kabul takeover happened, many early calls were made to UNICEF, UNHCR and the ICRC, among others. For example, I spoke to the deputy Secretary-General of the UN to ensure co-ordination of the humanitarian response. Last year, total UK aid to Afghanistan was £286 million. On the clarification of how much money has gone, I assure the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich, that it is £145 million. I draw noble Lords’ attention to the fact that I deliberately placed a detailed WMS just in advance of Christmas; I will share it again. All this money, the £286 million, will have left our door and be with agencies—indeed, be delivered on the ground—by the close of the current financial year. That was the commitment given and we are fulfilling it.

As I said, we worked to ensure that £145 million went out. To give an example to my noble friend Lady Anelay, we talked about this at the UN directly but I have also spoken to the UN emergency relief co-ordinator, Deborah Lyons, the UN SRSG, UNICEF, UNHCR, OCHA and ICRC, as well as other NGOs such as the Aga Khan Development Network, while working on the ground. If I can share a glimmer with noble Lords, many of these organisations have said that they are working without hindrance. Their ability to stand their networks up is clear. Challenges remain for some of their women workers but it varies from state to state. With 36-odd regions in Afghanistan, there are certain regions where work has become better and more effective because there is no conflict. We are monitoring that.

When I spoke to David Beasley at the World Food Programme, one thing he assured me of on our support and the money we have given—the latest report, which I shared with the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, came directly from the World Food Programme—was that aid is being delivered. However, I accept that, as the noble Lord, Lord Loomba, pointed out, there are vulnerable communities such as women and girls, particularly widows; I pay tribute to the noble Lord’s work in this respect. We are working with agencies on the ground.

I have met Afghan leaders, particularly women leaders, directly. I am meeting Fawzia Koofi this week but I have already met others, such as Hasina Safi, who was the Women’s Minister; I also met Shukria Barakzai a few weeks ago. I asked each of them to tell me which Afghan NGOs are working on the ground and still operational, so that we can help to support them. As the noble Lord, Lord Boateng, said, they know best. We will continue to support them through multilateral efforts as well as directly supporting UK NGOs. The noble Lord, Lord Hannay, has raised this point with me. We are working with organisations such as Save the Children. I will keep noble Lords fully updated on the detail of that.

My noble friend Lady Anelay, the noble Lords, Lord Purvis and Lord Boateng, and others raised the important issue of Afghan sanctions. On 22 December, the Security Council unanimously adopted Resolution 2615, which we were central in leading on, and added a humanitarian exemption to the sanctions regime established by Resolution 1988, thus enabling the provision of humanitarian aid to Afghanistan. I assure noble Lords that the UK Government are now working as a priority to update the relevant UK legislation to implement this exception directly in line with the UN Security Council resolution. I hope that this gives my noble friend the assurance she seeks. The reason I was turning back as the noble Earl spoke was that I was checking with my private secretary, as I believe I am signing that SI tomorrow, so I shall update noble Lords accordingly.

The challenges and obstacles to aid disbursement was raised by several noble Lords. On the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, we channel our funding through UN agencies and trusted NGOs and work with them to ensure that that money gets through in the most effective manner. Questions were asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Smith, and others about how we are working to ensure the further release of funding. We worked directly with the World Bank to release the first tranche of $280 million, which goes to health workers and teachers, and are currently working with it to ensure the release of another $1.2 billion. I agree with what the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, and others pointed out about the recent letter in the Guardian. I have read it, and I agree with the sentiments about engagement with the Taliban.

In the time I have, I assure the noble Lord, Lord Alton, that human rights are central to my thinking. The issue with the Hazara community is well known to me. It is a point we are making in direct engagement with the Taliban, which I will come on to, first through identifying the situation on the ground. Various NGOs have been named. We are in touch with them. Many minority communities are suffering. The Sikh community, the Hazara community and my own Ahmadi community are under great challenge. We are working to identify them, discreetly at times, to ensure their safe passage because for some minority communities there is no option but to leave. I am very aware of that issue.

My noble friend Lord Balfe raised the important issue of the BBC World Service. We are working very closely with the BBC and have successfully managed to evacuate a number of people from Afghanistan, but I take my noble friend’s wider point about the importance of the BBC and the soft power and influence we often talk about that can bring about change on the ground.

I am conscious I am up against the clock, but I hope your Lordships will indulge me on the important issue of engagement with the Taliban. As the noble Lords, Lord Boateng and Lord Kerr, said, the reality is that the Taliban are now in charge. I have often been asked—I was asked this by the noble Lord, Lord Grocott, and others—whether I think the Taliban have changed. When I went before the committee, I was very clear. When it comes to the Taliban, I do not recognise the faith I follow in their perverse ideology. Have they changed? I do not think so. What has changed is that Afghanistan changed in 20 years. Will the Taliban recognise that? That is the key question.

If the Taliban want international recognition and to be part of the international community, let us talk about Islam. This is not about western values, as my noble friend Lord Balfe said. We often talk about British values. I am a Muslim by faith and I am proud of my country of Britain. Is there a conflict between my faith and the country I represent? No. These are shared values. These are human values. I say to the Taliban: the first verse of the Holy Koran is Iqra, which means educate. No caveat, no addendums, no saying just for men. It is for men and women, boys and girls. Recognise that, Islam. The Holy Prophet Mohammed, who is often quoted by the Taliban, was employed by his first wife, Khadija Khuwaylid. She asked him to marry her. So let us have a reality check, Taliban. That is Islam, the principle you claim to follow. Stand up. You shall be held accountable. On inclusivity and the protection of minorities, Islam provides that protection. Stand up. Follow that Islam. Then we will see you being counted among countries that are standing up.

In all this, it is important that the Muslim world plays its role. It is vital that we invest in our relationships with Pakistan, Uzbekistan, Iran and others, and we are doing just that. For example, I have just returned from Sri Lanka and Qatar and I met Minister Al Thani as he was about to go out to Kabul. I listed many of the issues that the noble Baroness, Lady Kennedy, among others, including my noble friend Lady Anelay, listed about girls’ education, women’s rights and the rights of 36 million people in Afghanistan.

With the best intentions, we tried to stand up. Could we have got out more? The honest answer is that I do not know. I stand by the fact of what we achieved. We should not celebrate but say with humility that we managed to get 15,000 people out, but what about the 36 million that remain? Therefore, I recognise what noble Lords, Lord Anderson, Lord Kerr and Lord Hannay, have said: that we must engage.

At this point, a line is being drawn. We are engaging and have been at the forefront; Sir Simon Gass and Martin Longden have both been to Kabul. We are engaging directly, as noble Lords have said, in Norway. Nigel Casey, our special representative for Afghanistan and Pakistan, will be returning later tonight and I will meet him tomorrow. I will update noble Lords on the discussions that are taking place. I share with noble Lords that we are drawing a line with the Taliban at the moment that I will not engage with it them as a Minister. We will engage at official levels to ensure that they provide safe passage, provide and stand up for human rights and allow humanitarian aid in. As my noble friend Lady Fall said, we will not allow Afghanistan again to become a base for terrorism. It is not an easy ask, but we must work with international partners in this respect. Today those meetings are taking place in Norway. It is a change. I believe it is the first time the Taliban have been invited outside the region. They met in Islamabad a few weeks ago.

I, too, heard that awful interview which said that women’s rights are being protected after seeing a most shocking video of those very rights being usurped. That is not good enough; the Taliban will be held accountable. If the Taliban want international recognition they must step up to the mark and deliver on the promises and examples that they claim to follow. Then they will see how we can engage further. It is important that we engage with them for the key things that we deliver on human rights and humanitarian aid and we are doing just that.

The noble Lord, Lord Collins, asked me about the mandate. We are very much part and parcel of that. When I met Deborah Lyons, I assured her of our continued support. We will work with UN partners to ensure humanitarian aid remains a priority. I heard the call from Gordon Brown; he is right to draw attention to the humanitarian crisis. I believe that with the contributions the United Kingdom is making—we are ever-evolving and learning from experience—we are stepping up to the mark to try to play our role. What happens in the weeks and months ahead will determine many of the issues.

The noble Baroness, Lady Coussins, rightly raised the issue of interpreters; she and I have had many a discussion on this. Many interpreters have arrived. I remember working through cases and examples even in the few days I tried to take off at the end of July. Every new case brings hope. Some of the interpreters I got involved with, with your Lordships raising their cases, have arrived here. I have met them, and it is heartening to see them building new lives. I take on board what the noble Baroness says. We remain focused on ensuring that we stand up for those who played important roles for all of us.

I am over my time by five minutes, but I hope that by illustrating some of the detail behind our engagement I have been able to respond more extensively, particularly to the questions raised by my noble friend Lady Anelay and all noble Lords. The final point I will make is this: as the government Minister responsible, I will continue to engage with your Lordships across the piece on the important issue of Afghanistan because one thing I recognise beyond everything else is that within your Lordships’ House we have the insight, experience and expertise that can help to guide our Government in a response which is ever evolving. In terms of what we have achieved, we should show humility. In terms of what we seek to do, we should put humanity at the heart of our work.

Mikheil Saakashvili

Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon Excerpts

Thursday 13th January 2022 Lords Chamber

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what representations they are making to the government of Georgia about the continued imprisonment of Mikheil Saakashvili, the former president of that country.

[The Minister of State, Foreign, Commonwealth and Development Office (Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon) (Con)]

My Lords, we are closely following events connected to the detention of former President Saakashvili. The former Minister for Europe, Wendy Morton, raised Mr Saakashvili’s detention with the Georgian Ambassador on 15 December, highlighting concerns about his health and treatment. Our ambassador and other officials have raised Mr Saakashvili’s case at senior levels in Tbilisi, including with the Deputy Foreign Minister and the Speaker of Georgia’s parliament. We will continue to monitor developments regarding this case.

[Lord Harries of Pentregarth (CB)]

I thank the Minister for his reply. Under Mr Saakashvili’s presidency, Georgia flourished economically. He took significant steps to eliminate corruption and when he lost power in 2013, he transferred power peacefully, the first ever peaceful transition of power in Georgia. Since then he has been stripped of his citizenship and put in prison on trumped-up charges in what Amnesty International describes as apparent political revenge. I pass all this on to the Minister, but my question focuses simply on his imprisonment. Yesterday I received a letter from him, smuggled out of prison, in which he talks about being denied private communication with his lawyers and being repeatedly assaulted by prison officials. Will Her Majesty’s Government protest most strongly to the Georgian Government about this and ask that our own ambassador might visit him in prison?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I thank the noble and right reverend Lord for providing that additional information. I will of course take that forward and pass it to both our team here in London and our ambassador on the ground in Tbilisi. On the issue of Mr Saakashvili’s continued detention, we are urging the Georgian Government to ensure the fair treatment of the former president. We welcome recent steps to facilitate medical care for Mr Saakashvili and to accord him the right to due process in legal proceedings. I share the noble and right reverend Lord’s view of Mr Saakashvili’s tenure. Of course, when he returned in October he did so willingly and was at that time taken into custody. I will certainly take forward, as the noble and right reverend Lord suggests, any further action on the additional information that he provides.

[Lord Hannay of Chiswick (CB)]

My Lords, while I recognise that it is not for this House or any Member of it to judge former President Saakashvili’s innocence or guilt, is the point being made to the Georgian Government that if, as I think we would much desire, there is to be an ever-closer relationship between this country and Georgia, it is going to count in that matter whether Georgia applies the provisions of the European Convention on Human Rights in full and in a correct manner?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord about the importance of the request by the European Court of Human Rights to the Government of Georgia that they ensure the safety of Mr Saakashvili and inform the court about the applicant’s current state of health. We will continue to make that case and, as I said earlier, to ensure that he is given both the right to legal representation and medical care.

[Lord Collins of Highbury (Lab)]

My Lords, the former president’s detention is symptomatic of the greater problem of the deterioration of human rights in Georgia, particularly labour rights. According to the Georgian Trade Unions Confederation, just last year 22 workers died in one month alone. Can the Minister tell us, like he did yesterday, what he is doing to raise human rights and to work with the ILO to ensure that Georgia meets the obligations of that organisation, to which Georgia is also committed?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

The noble Lord is quite right to draw attention to the issue of human rights and, if I could term it thus, the democratic backsliding that at times we have seen on rights generally across Georgia. I assure him that we are engaging directly. My right honourable friend the Foreign Secretary mentioned the importance of promoting democratic values, which is central to our foreign policy. On 1 December, during discussions with the Georgian Government in Tbilisi, our regional director for eastern Europe and central Asia raised important issues around various elements of human rights and, beyond that, the politicisation of appointments. There has also been a decline in LGBT rights; the noble Lord will be aware of the attack on the Pride march. All of this forms part of our engagement directly with Georgia.

[Lord Purvis of Tweed (LD)]

My Lords, I was in Tbilisi in 2017 shortly after the former president had his citizenship revoked while he was the governor of Odessa, in Ukraine. He subsequently also had his citizenship revoked by Ukraine. This situation is open to significant influence from Russia, in addition to the concern about the individual case. As the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Harries, has indicated, Amnesty International has raised concerns that this treatment is political revenge. Will Britain indicate to the Georgian Government that operating under the premise of due judicial process and respecting human rights are core elements of Georgia’s membership of the Council of Europe, and that working in this way is the best security against external influence from Russia?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I can certainly assure the noble Lord that that is exactly our approach. We will continue to raise this directly and with key partners, including in international fora such as the Council of Europe.

[Lord Foulkes of Cumnock (Lab Co-op)]

My Lords, following on from that question, is the Minister aware that monitors from the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe visited Georgia last month? They have returned and said that is absolutely vital that the two main parties overcome the extremely polarised political climate. They are Georgian Dream and the United National Movement, which is Mikheil’s own party.

Will the Minister make particular use the Parliamentary Assembly of the Council of Europe and specifically ask our ambassador to the CoE to raise this issue at the Council of Ministers meeting, so that multilateral action can be taken? As I said during another Question earlier in the week, this kind of multilateral approach is much better than a government-to-government approach, which is sometimes misunderstood.

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord and as I have said to him previously, I look forward to working with him directly on this agenda and I pay tribute to his valuable work within the Council of Europe. I am looking specifically at the work of the Council of Europe and will take forward what the noble Lord suggests. Whatever we do in the multilateral fora, as I said to the noble Lord, Lord Purvis, it is also important that we complement, consolidate and strengthen it through our bilateral representations.

[Lord Campbell of Pittenweem (LD)]

My Lords, in light of current events, would it be worth advising the current Administration of Georgia that admission to NATO requires a respect for human rights?

[Lord Ahmad of Wimbledon (Con)]

I assure the noble Lord that we remind Georgia in our bilateral discussions of its international obligations. Let us not forget that Georgia itself, in the breakaway republics of Abkhazia and South Ossetia, faces direct challenges of the very nature the noble Lord alludes to.