Roads: Long and Heavy Vehicles

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Wednesday 1st December 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Dixon-Smith]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to permit a trial of longer and heavier vehicles on roads; and what assessment they have made of the impact of the use of such vehicles on rail freight.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the Government have made it clear that they have no intention of permitting any trials of goods vehicles longer than 18.75 metres or heavier than 44 tonnes. The Government are awaiting the conclusions of research into a small increment in the length of articulated lorries, but this would provide no more loading capacity than is currently possible with a rigid draw-bar combination lorry.

[Lord Dixon-Smith]

My Lords, many types of lightweight freight are completely inappropriate for rail travel. At a time when all public expenditure is under critical examination, to improve productivity and to reduce costs, does my noble friend agree that it is appropriate to review all our regulatory systems at the same time, so that economic or environmental performance on this particular transport question can be improved wherever possible?

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[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, before responding to that question, I should first declare an interest as I know Mr Dick Denby, who is a proponent of a longer and heavier vehicle. I have also received engineering advice from his designer on a pro bono basis. Mr Denby has done the country a great service by opening up this issue. As a result, this Government and our predecessor have been looking at a small increase in the length of an articulated vehicle to address precisely the concern of my noble friend: that low-density goods are bulking out, rather than grossing out, our current range of goods vehicles.

[Lord Snape]

My Lords, does the Minister accept that it is the heaviest goods vehicles that directly abstract traffic from rail freight? Will he accept from me that, for years, the road haulage industry has been claiming spuriously that heavier and longer goods vehicles would mean fewer of them? Does he agree that the heaviest goods vehicles have, for over 30 years, failed to pay their true track costs, and does he accept that any acceptance of longer and heavier vehicles will cause even more damage to Britain’s roads, which will be paid for by other taxpayers?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, most of what the noble Lord says is right. We are looking at an increase in the cubic capacity of an articulated vehicle, but we have absolutely no intention of increasing the gross weight of a goods vehicle, for precisely the reasons that the noble Lord explained.

[Lord Geddes]

My Lords, is the crucial question in this context not the axle weights rather than the overall weight?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes an important point. The damage to the road goes up in proportion to the fourth power of the axle weight, but we have no intention of altering the permitted axle weights either. However, the type of vehicle we are looking at will require different axle arrangements on the rear of the vehicle.

[Lord Davies of Oldham]

My Lords, I quite appreciate the Minister approaching this issue with some care, because he will know the anxieties of the general public about the questions over the damage which heavy lorries do to our roads and the pollution that they create. However, is there any reason why he should delay the charging of heavy goods vehicles, given that at present he is all too well aware of the unfairness of foreign lorries coming into this country and using our roads without cost?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, we discussed lorry road-user charging recently at Question Time. We are working on it and will announce on it in due course.

[Lord Bradshaw]

Can the Minister assure us that road safety will play a very prominent part in his consideration, because these lorries will not be confined to the motorway network? Will he please tell us, through the Library or however, how many prosecutions have been brought against HGVs—heavy goods vehicles—for contravening the weight restrictions on most of our roads?

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[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Lord raises important issues about enforcement. This question is more about the design, construction and use of our vehicles, but he is right that we need to make sure that we enforce regulations on the operation of goods vehicles very carefully indeed.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester]

My Lords, can the Minister confirm that it is the policy of this Government to carry as many goods by rail as possible and to transfer goods from road to rail wherever possible? In that context, will the Government continue to support freight transfer depots and other facilities to enable goods to be put on to the railway and carried long distances by rail rather than by road?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, on the first part of the noble Lord’s question, absolutely. We will do nothing that reduces the amount of freight carried by rail.

[Viscount Montgomery of Alamein]

Can the Minister confirm that the road axle weight has increased from 38 tonnes per axle? He rather gave that impression in his earlier Answer.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the gross train weight—that is, the all-up weight of a heavy goods vehicle—was increased some time ago from 38 tonnes to 44 tonnes, but the axle weight is considerably lower than that.

[Lord Craig of Radley]

My Lords, will the Minister take into account the number of heavy goods vehicles that have jack-knifed during the recent bad weather and caused considerable traffic delays? Does this need to be borne in mind in deciding on the future of these arrangements?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, one of our motivations for considering a slightly longer articulated trailer rather than using a rigid vehicle towing a draw-bar trailer—precisely the point that the noble and gallant Lord makes—is that we believe that an articulated vehicle will be slightly safer.

Railways: Public Procurement

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Tuesday 30th November 2010 Grand Committee

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I congratulate the noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, and her colleagues on developing an excellent and thought-provoking contribution to the public procurement debate. This debate has been fascinating to me and will be valuable to my officials. The noble Baroness asked me whether we will learn lessons. Yes, because it is extremely boring to make the same mistake twice.

Rail delivers an essential service with more than 1.2 billion passenger journeys and more than 19 billion freight tonne kilometres in 2009-10. Total government support to the rail network was £3.9 billion in 2009-10. Two initiatives are central to the Government’s plans for rail services and to provide better value for money. The rail value-for-money study, chaired by Sir Roy McNulty, will help us tackle the greater costs of rail in the UK compared with mainland Europe, while our consultation on reforming rail franchising will assist us in devising a new franchising policy.

The Government want a stronger focus on the quality of outcomes for passengers, giving operators freedom to decide the detail of how they run their businesses. We also intend to grant longer franchises to encourage private sector investment in enhancements to the railway and to make it easier for train operators to establish long-term relationships with Network Rail and others, but we have to make sure that contracts are demanding and that operators are held to account.

The noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, talked about the penalties for poor performance. The department's policy has been to avoid renegotiation. National Express paid a large financial cost for its failure to deliver its commitments on the east coast. That sends a clear message to the bidding community. Sir Roy McNulty is not scheduled to present his final conclusions until next spring. The consultation on reforming rail franchising closed during October, and ministerial colleagues will shortly present our revised franchising policy and timetable.

I take this opportunity to thank everyone who took the time to respond to the reforming rail franchising consultation, including the helpful submission from the transport forum chaired by the noble Baroness. I will discuss some of the issues raised, without prejudging the outcome of the franchise reform review. One issue raised was the importance of negotiation and early engagement with shortlisted bidders. The responses provided broad support for the proposal in the consultation document that,

“bilateral discussions are held with each of the shortlisted bidders prior to the issue of the Invitation to Tender, enabling bidders to inform the specification and contract documentation”.

I expect this approach to be reflected in the new processes, ensuring that the department does not inadvertently prevent any bidder from proposing an innovative solution.

The noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, talked about the need for transparency. The coalition has introduced new rules requiring the publication of all contracts and tender documents. This is an area where rail procurement can be held to have led the way. All selection processes, invitations to tender and successful contracts have been made available on the DfT website for many years under the previous Administration. The submission raises the important but complex issue of risk allocation. It correctly points out how important it will be for future franchises to make it clear which risks are to be borne by operators and which by the Government. The submission suggests that there might be merit in the Government bearing some of the risk of changes in the economic climate. We continue to develop policy in this area but are clear that risk transfer to the private sector may be costly.

The noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, and the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, both talked about risk allocation. Rail contracts strive to define which risks are held by which party. However, as the noble Baroness noted, some risks have reverted to the Government—for instance, if a franchise fails, the Government are legally required to run the train services. We seek to limit that risk by bonds, which the franchisee pays in the event of failure, but also by parental guarantees, which ensure that a parent company is required to support the franchisee through temporary financial difficulty.

I have already touched on the issue of longer franchises, while the question of break points will need to be considered carefully. There is a danger that break points negate the advantages of a longer franchise if it is then perceived as merely a series of short franchises. We want to reform the franchising system as a whole, improving incentives to invest and to take account of passengers. However, although we are seeking to develop a new approach at policy level, the department has a good track record in the processes of procurement.

The strengths of the rail franchise procurement process were recognised by the NAO as good practice in its October 2008 report, Letting Rail Franchises 2005-2007. Likewise, the Office of Government Commerce, the OGC, in its initial procurement capability review carried out in late 2007, reported:

“Rail franchising is now a very impressive process, which has demonstrated innovation, good market involvement, transparent and robust processes, and successful financial outcomes”.

A report on the second procurement capability review in March 2010 also reflected:

“In a number of areas, DfT performance is leading edge in government procurement terms; for instance, the rail franchise process, the openness and transparency of communications with suppliers, and support for ‘policy through procurement’ initiatives are all exemplary”.

The procedures and techniques first applied in rail franchising have now been adopted across all major Department for Transport procurement activity. At the request of the OGC, the DfT has also provided advice and guidance to other departments.

The noble Baroness talked about performance bonds. An appropriate balance must be struck on this issue. If the bond is set too low, it may discourage a franchisee from handing back the keys at the first scent of trouble and it might be inadequate to cover the direct incremental cost to government of stepping in to deliver the train service and running an additional unscheduled franchise competition. However, if the bond is set too high, we may inadvertently exclude smaller operators from the franchise marketplace and we will pay a substantial cost for the performance bonds, the majority of which are never called upon. The noble Lord, Lord Beecham, talked about some of these difficulties.

The rail value-for-money study, led by Sir Roy McNulty, is looking at why UK railways are so much more expensive than those in the rest of Europe. Focusing Network Rail on the regions and routes may have some benefits. Certainly no decision has been made to split up Network Rail, but all options are being considered in Sir Roy’s review.

The noble Baroness talked about the need to have a fallback in negotiations. During competitions, the fallback is clear: the contract may be awarded to a competitor. Mid-term negotiation is of course always more difficult, but contracts contain a provision for government to impose a “reasonable” settlement and, ultimately, the franchisee will lose the franchise if it is in default.

I was delighted to see the noble Lord, Lord Tunnicliffe, put his name down to speak in this debate. Few noble Lords have as much experience as he does in public procurement for transport infrastructure. The noble Lord raised the advantages of win-win contracts. The alternative, of course, is a win-lose or a lose-lose situation. Train operators need to make a profit by attracting more passengers and increasing revenue. This revenue incentive helps to make contracts win-win, but we are reviewing how to improve incentives further.

The noble Lord, Lord Beecham, touched on the size of contractors and, I think, by implication, SMEs. SMEs are an engine of the economy, providing nearly 60 per cent of our jobs and 50 per cent of GDP, and it is only right that they should benefit from the Government’s substantial purchasing power. The public purse will benefit from the ability of small businesses to offer value for money, flexibility, responsiveness and innovation.

The noble Earl, Lord Mar and Kellie, talked about the problems of interlinking rolling stock and electrification. He also talked about the IEP project. This is a very complex, long-term project and it is vital that we get the decision right. I hope that we will be able to announce our conclusions shortly.

The noble Earl talked about roscos wanting guarantees. The department seeks to avoid giving these guarantees, as they reduce flexibility. However, there have been cases where such guarantees have brought down the cost to the taxpayer. He also talked about the Pendolinos on the west coast franchise. There have been many positive aspects to Virgin’s management of the intercity west coast franchise and I look forward to seeing how it will develop and build on that as part of a competitive tendering process for the new franchise.

The noble Earl also talked about scenic railways. The layout of trains provides a scenic view from all seats but it is a matter for the operator, not something that the department should be micromanaging.

[Lord Bradshaw]

I wonder whether the noble Lord might reflect on the fact that it is the load factors which the department insists on that make the roscos move all the seats closer together, so that they meet the target set by the department.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I will certainly reflect upon that and have a chat with my officials afterwards.

The noble Baroness, Lady Greengross, spoke of future studies in other areas of public procurement. We look forward to her results with interest and we will certainly take note of them. I am confident that the public procurement processes adopted for rail will continue to represent best practice and provide transparency and equal treatment for bidders. The rail franchise specifications which are procured will evolve and reflect the results of the consultation to provide an environment where operators have the freedom to provide improved value for money and the improvement that passengers want.

Railways: Investment

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Thursday 25th November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, with the leave of the House, I should like to repeat the Statement made by my right honourable friend the Secretary of State in another place. The Statement is as follows.

“With permission, Mr Speaker, I wish to make a Statement on the Government’s plans for investment in rail infrastructure and rolling stock. These plans build on the announcement by my right honourable friend the Chancellor of the Exchequer on the outcome of the spending review. As we have consistently said, tackling the deficit is our top priority. By taking tough decisions on current spending, we are able to secure our future growth by making vital infrastructure investments.

Over the next four years, we will provide £14 billion of funding to Network Rail to support capital maintenance and infrastructure investment, and £750 million for high speed rail. We will also fund the Crossrail project, the Tube upgrade programme, light rail projects in Birmingham, Tyneside, Nottingham and Sheffield, and provide additional funding to franchisees for extra rolling stock. I can also confirm today that we will fund and deliver the Thameslink programme in its entirety, virtually doubling the number of north/south trains running through central London at peak times. This huge investment will link Sussex, Kent and Surrey, through central London, with Hertfordshire, Bedfordshire and Cambridgeshire.

The original programme for the rebuilding of London Bridge station, to increase through-running as part of this project, was always ambitious, with substantial risks around delivery and operation of existing services during construction. To reduce these risks, we have reprofiled the delivery of the programme to achieve completion in 2018. This will enable Network Rail to make the further efficiencies in the design and delivery of the programme that we require to ensure value for money. Passengers will start to benefit from incremental improvements on the Thameslink route from 2011.

As part of the Thameslink programme, we will procure a new fleet of trains, with up to 1,200 new carriages. This is in addition to 600 new carriages which will be provided for the Crossrail project. Together with the Tube upgrades, these projects represent a step change in rail capacity in London, providing a significant boost to economic growth potential in the capital. New Thameslink and Crossrail rolling stock will enable the redeployment of hundreds of serviceable electric carriages currently used on Thameslink services. These carriages belong to rolling-stock leasing companies, but we expect that they will be available at competitive leasing prices for use elsewhere, thus justifying further electrification of the network.

As a first step, I can announce today that Network Rail will electrify commuter services on the Great Western main line from London to Didcot, Oxford and Newbury over the next six years. Electric trains will speed up journeys, improve reliability and reduce the impact on the environment on these busy routes.

The Chancellor also announced on 20 October the electrification of the lines between Liverpool, Manchester, Preston and Blackpool, an investment of up to £300 million. I expect work in the north-west to begin next year and to be completed at around the same time as work on the Thames Valley commuter lines in 2016. Some sections will be completed well ahead of this, notably Manchester to Newton-le-Willows in late 2013, allowing new electric trains to operate between Manchester and Scotland. As with Thameslink, we will require Network Rail to keep a tight rein on costs.

The redeployment of electric rolling stock to these routes will, in turn, free up hundreds of diesel units for train operators to lease as they become available in the period after 2015. This will be welcome news to passengers. The Public Accounts Committee recently found that many services are unacceptably overcrowded, and I understand the frustrations of rail travellers who have to travel on packed trains. More investment is clearly needed. That is why I argued for additional rail investment in the spending review, and it is also why I have taken the difficult decision to allow regulated fares to rise by 3 per cent above inflation for the three years from 2012 in order to help us to pay for these investments.

In January 2008, the previous Government published a plan to bring 1,300 additional carriages into service by March 2014. This plan was never deliverable. In total, only 206 of those 1,300 carriages had entered service by May this year. My predecessors quoted a grand total of rail carriages, but never referred publicly to the fact that delivery of that total was subject to so many caveats and qualifications as to render it effectively meaningless. According to their published plan, the 1,300 carriages were not final and were subject to,

“value for money, affordability … linkages with other interventions or with other rail projects … infrastructure constraints … supply chain constraints”,

and even “credibility”. It went on to say in the document that,

“the final outcome could well be different”.

In other words, not so much a plan as a press release. So let me set the record straight: I can confirm today that an additional 650 carriages will have been delivered to the network between 6 May 2010 and March 2014. This is in addition to the Thameslink and Crossrail carriages I have already mentioned.

But it is not just about rolling stock. Network Rail has already started work on station improvements, with funding confirmed for developments at Reading, Birmingham, London King’s Cross and Gatwick Airport. Investments on the east coast main line, the Midland main line, improvements in Yorkshire on trans-Pennine routes around Manchester, and in south Wales will improve the line speed, reliability and capacity of services.

Beyond these investments, there are far-reaching decisions to be made about intercity services. In February 2009, the Intercity Express Programme, launched by the previous Government, identified the Agility Trains consortium as the preferred bidder to build a new fleet of intercity trains. Then, this February, my predecessor invited Sir Andrew Foster, former head of the Audit Commission, to provide an independent assessment of the programme. Sir Andrew presented his report to me at the end of June, recommending further work on the Agility Trains proposal and a detailed study of the alternatives. I can now tell the House that we have narrowed down the options from the four Sir Andrew identified to two. I have ruled out the option of requiring passengers to change from electric to diesel trains at a point in their journeys, recognising the value to passengers of preserving through-journeys. I have also ruled out the option of a wholesale refurbishment of the existing Intercity 125 fleet, some of which dates back to the 1970s.

The remaining options are, on the one hand, a revised lower-cost Agility Trains proposal that envisages a mixed fleet of some all-electric trains and some electric trains equipped with underfloor diesel engines, and on the other hand, a fleet of new all-electric trains that could be coupled to new diesel locomotives where the overhead electric power lines end. Both of these options would allow us to preserve through-journeys between London and those parts of the rail network which are not electrified. Both of them would deliver faster journey times. For example, we expect to see time savings of at least 15 minutes for the journey between Cardiff and London, bringing it to below two hours.

This is a major decision that will affect intercity rail travel for decades to come, and we must get it right. To address the outstanding issues on choice of train type and further electrification on the Great Western main line, additional work will be required within the department, with Agility Trains and with the Welsh Assembly Government on the business case for electrification into Wales. When this work and discussions with the Welsh Assembly Government and with my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Wales have been concluded, I expect to announce a final decision on the Intercity Express Programme and on further Great Western electrification in the new year.

The package I have announced today has been possible only because this Government have been prepared to take tough decisions in order to protect investment in Britain’s future. This is a commitment to our railways which will benefit Britain for generations to come. I commend the Statement to the House”.

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[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I am very grateful for the measured response of the noble Lord, Lord Davies. We will take on the baton of improving rail services for our people. I accept that a lot of the groundwork was done by the previous Government. I am also proud of the fact that we have avoided the trap of cutting infrastructure investment—the noble Lord touched on that. He referred to some of the slight delays, which I explained in the Statement.

It is important to remember that we have retained the full scope of the Thameslink programme; that is, 24 trains per hour in each direction. I am sure that the noble Lord understands that the decision on electrification to Wales is dependent on the IEP project decision. He needs to understand that all these schemes are interdependent; they are a jigsaw. Today’s announcement on the Thameslink project and its beneficial consequences is just one part of that process.

The noble Lord referred to the HS2 route. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State is well aware of the difficulties, but he is extremely persuasive. Some people underestimate some of the mitigating measures that can be put in place. The noble Lord referred also to carriage numbers, and I am sure that he will table numerous written parliamentary Questions to drill down that issue. I look forward to answering them.

[Lord Snape]

My Lords, those of us who take an interest in these matters will welcome many parts of the Statement that the Minister has just made. The previous Government promised an electrified Great Western main line. That line has never ended at Oxford but goes a considerable distance further west than that. Will he give us some assurance that the Oxford of tomorrow does not become the Bedford of yesterday—namely, a terminus for electric trains—rather than the whole line being electrified?

Without getting into the argument between the two Front Benches on the exact number of new coaches, can the Minister give the House some assurance that he will do what he can to see that those coaches are constructed in the United Kingdom? Furthermore, does he accept that the one downside of his Statement is the proposal to allow train operating companies to increase fares by inflation plus 3 per cent? Is he aware that that was a favourite tactic of British Rail in the days of the nationalised industry under successive Governments? Such increases appear guaranteed to choke off new passenger demand, rather than, as the Government’s stated objective supposedly is, to increase the number of passengers carried on Britain’s railway system.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Lord referred to electrification past Oxford. He will have to be patient for our determination on the IEP project, but he will not have to wait too long. He asked where the coaches would be constructed. He will know that EU procurement rules prevent us from guaranteeing that coaches will be built in the UK. Personally, I hope that they will be built in the UK, but we will have to see what happens.

[Lord Bradshaw]

I congratulate the Minister on the Statement, which, over the whole country, will be gladly accepted by most railwaymen. I deplore the sentiments expressed on the other side of the House, as this seems to be a great day for railways.

I have a few questions, however. The Statement refers to electrification in the north-west. It is important that Leeds is also included, because services across the Pennines are much slower than they would be and electrification between the west and east coasts makes an enormous amount of sense. The overcrowding of existing services, particularly around Manchester, is a blot on the record of the previous Government, because the crowding standards there are totally unacceptable.

Will the Minister confirm my arithmetic that something like 2,450 extra carriages are included? Reference is made to investments on the east coast main line and the Midland main line. I should like to know the nature of those improvements, because it is not very clear from the Statement. I was concerned about the Secretary of State ruling out the option of a wholesale refurbishment of the Intercity 125 fleet, some of which dates back to the 1970s. I am reliably informed by people in the rolling stock industry that those vehicles and the Mark IV vehicles on the east coast main line are quite capable of being turned into new vehicles, as has already been done for the Wrexham and Shropshire railway. We ought to be quite certain that we cannot use them, because their owners—the rolling stock companies—may lease them to a large number of open-access operators. I believe that any big increase in open-access operations will undermine the franchising process.

The noble Lord talked about bringing the journey time from Cardiff to London to under two hours, but it was under two hours in the 1980s, so that does not amount to much of an improvement. It is the timetable that needs altering—it has been packed with stops here, there and everywhere, making the journey to south Wales much longer than it need be. While we are on the subject of south Wales, my most anxious concerns are about the Severn Tunnel, which is the only way in and out of south Wales. I know that my noble friend in another place will be seeing the Minister on Monday to talk to her about the urgent necessity of doubling the line from Swindon to Kemble, so that there is a viable route between south Wales and London.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, my noble friend makes several important points. I shall just touch on some of the more important ones. He talked about the future of the HST 125 trains, the possibility of refurbishing them and the possible undesirable effects of those trains staying in the market. There are uses for that rolling stock in the future. One difficulty about that rolling stock is that its operating costs would be higher, while there might be a reliability question. The noble Lord knows how damaging breakdowns are on the system.

The noble Lord talked about the redoubling of the Swindon to Kemble line. That is a good scheme but it is not in CP4. I am making absolutely no commitment, but it could be a CP5 issue. He also talked about the time saving that arises from electrification. He needs to remember that that route is much more intensively used but that electric trains will give greater acceleration, so there will be a big benefit. However, we will keep the timetabling issues under review and make sure that we are not losing any benefits that we could gain.

[The Lord Bishop of Chester]

My Lords, the Statement is couched almost entirely in terms of the impact on passenger traffic on the railways. Can the Minister comment on the Government’s policy for increasing the use of the railways for freight and on what the relevance of the Statement might be to that?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, we are very keen to move as much freight as possible on to the railway system. The Thameslink project is not relevant to freight but the High Speed 2 project is, because the west coast main line will run out of capacity and, if we do not build High Speed 2, we will not be able to put more freight on to the west coast main line.

[Lord Faulkner of Worcester]

My Lords, first, I thank the Minister very much for repeating the Statement. I also thank him for the tone of his replies, particularly in his reference to the previous Administration. As he knows, I had a very minor part in the Department for Transport in that Administration and I welcome what he said. I am aware that, when a Statement is repeated from the Commons, we tend to hear rather more strident language than we normally would in this Chamber. I also endorse much of what the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, said. He is too modest. When the journey time between London and Cardiff was under two hours, it was when he was running the western region of British Railways. Indeed, that journey time is not that great an aspiration.

I obviously welcome the continued commitment to High Speed 2, to the electrification programme in the north-west and to the Great Western main line as far as Newbury and Oxford. I should declare an unpaid interest as a member of the First Great Western advisory board. I want to press the noble Lord a little bit about what the mechanism will be for reviewing the possibility of going further west than Didcot. Is there a possibility, for example, that electrification will reach Bristol and is it the case that electrification to Cardiff and Swansea is dependent on the Welsh Government making some significant financial contribution?

My worry about the Statement, which I would like the Minister to address, is the question of overcrowding. He will be aware that the figures from the Office of Rail Regulation show that services in London and the south-east are already seriously overcrowded, particularly on First Great Western, where they worsened from 6.5 per cent of passengers in excess of capacity in 2008 to 8.2 per cent in 2009. The consequence of the cascading of electrified stock from the existing Thameslink service to the new electrified services to Newbury and Oxford is that there will be a delay of four years. I am fearful that overcrowding will increase during those four years.

I hope that the point made by my noble friend Lord Snape about the fare increases pricing people off the railway will not come to pass. Like the Minister, I am anxious to see the railway used to the maximum extent. It would be disastrous if we went back to the sort of policy that existed in the 1970s and 1980s, when the response to passenger demand was simply to put up the fares to choke it off. Will the Minister comment on overcrowding as well?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, with regard to the noble Lord’s kind words about the difference between this place and another place, I could not possibly comment. The noble Lord talked about electrification out to Bristol. That is an important point. As I said, it is closely linked to the IEP solution and the development of the business case. He talked about a possible contribution from the Welsh Assembly Government. I think that he is thinking along the correct lines. I will talk to the officials and reflect on his points about overcrowding. The decision regarding fares was difficult, but we have to get some more income to pay for the improvements. However, it is certainly not a mechanism to choke off demand and passengers. We want people to travel by rail; we do not want them to travel by car.

[Lord Fowler]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that the government Statement that he has made is important and will be widely welcomed throughout the country, not just in London but in many other parts as well? Is it not sensible, even in these times of austerity, that plans for capital investment should go ahead and be sustained? In the past, it has been the case that capital projects have been cut back. That is one of the most significant parts of the Statement. I underline the importance of the high-speed service to Birmingham; it is important not just to Birmingham but to commerce, industry and business in the whole of the West Midlands. I hope that he will take it that there is a great deal of support for that new service.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, it is an important Statement. I also look forward to making further welcome Statements about the development of our railway system. My noble friend is right about capital investment; we are spending for future growth. He talked about the benefits of High Speed 2 for the Midlands, but it would also give benefits much further north.

[Lord Anderson of Swansea]

I thank the Minister for his courteous replies, but is he aware that in our Welsh folklore there is the story of the dictionary that, under “Wales”, states: “For ‘Wales’, read ‘England’”? Is there not a danger here that Wales will be short-changed—just as we were, for example, when at the time of the introduction of HSTs we were given only the hand-me-downs from the east coast main line? Why is more work needed in Wales on this matter, not in the north-west? When the Minister refers to the discussions within the Welsh Assembly Government, does that not mean in effect that the aim of the Government is to force the Welsh Assembly Government, at a time when their resources are being limited, to pick up a substantial part of the bill for the electrification of the line to south Wales?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, we do not intend to short-change Wales. Wales will benefit from the electrification; indeed, Wales would benefit even if we electrified only to Bristol because the journey time to London will be reduced and the journeys will be more reliable.

[Lord Taylor of Goss Moor]

My Lords, as someone who travels regularly between Cornwall and London, I have to say that the Statement inspires rather less warm feelings in me than it may in those from some other parts of the country. Again, we see a decision delayed. Can the Minister give some indication of what a decision in the new year means in practice? How quickly will we see a decision on the replacement of Great Western intercity rolling stock? I express my deep concern that, while it is great that making passengers change train has been ruled out, changing the locomotive does not inspire great confidence. I hope that we will see a new diesel/electric hybrid able to run all the way through to Penzance.

[Earl Attlee]

The noble Lord talks about the difficulties faced by Cornwall and the West Country. I am well aware of the economic difficulties in that part of the country. He talks about the disadvantages of attaching a diesel locomotive to the front of an IEP train. It is an obvious difficulty, which will no doubt be taken into consideration when developing and assessing the business cases.

[Lord Bates]

My Lords, is my noble friend aware that the decision on the Intercity Express Programme will be followed very closely in the north-east of England? The Agility consortium, particularly Hitachi trains, is looking to invest £660 million in a plant at Newton Aycliffe in the north-east, which is of course the home of the railway’s first steam engine and the location of the first railway line between Darlington and Stockton. While recognising that there is a great need to ensure that major capital investment programmes are well researched and offer full value for money, I urge my noble friend to bring that decision forward as quickly as possible. It is crucial for the north-east economy and for manufacturing; it would also be a tremendous boost to the north-east at a time when it is seeing lots of public spending restraint in other areas. Will he focus particularly on the point in his Statement on the revised bid put forward by Hitachi and the Agility consortium? I think that I heard him say that it had been resubmitted and was now lower than the other option. At times of fiscal constraint, that might be a clincher.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I am grateful for my noble friend’s contribution on the importance of the IEP to the north-east. That was no doubt very high up in the mind of the previous Administration, quite rightly. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State is fully aware of all these factors and the importance of, as my noble friend put it, a boost to the north-east. My noble friend talked about a lower cost bid. That is welcome as well, but it is important that we select the correct technical solution to the problem of having a bi-mode capability.

[Lord Greaves]

My Lords, as one of the small minority of Members of this House who live in the north of England, I congratulate the Government on the large number of measures that are suggested, including electrification in the north-west and improvement to services across the Pennines and in the Yorkshire and Manchester areas, even though the much needed increase in rolling stock is yet again London’s cast-offs, which is what we normally get lumbered with. Nevertheless, it is better than nothing—cattle trucks are better than no trucks at all. Is the Minister aware of the need to reinstate a teeny-weeny bit of track in the Todmorden area, known as the Todmorden curve? That would allow trains going from Burnley over the Copy Pit line to join the old Calder Valley main line between Todmorden and Hebden Bridge to turn right as well as left, and allow us not to improve the rail service from the Burnley and Pendle area to Manchester but actually to introduce one.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I am aware of the problem of London’s cast-offs, as the noble Lord put it. However, it is a sensible way of extracting all the capital value from the rolling stock. The noble Lord asked about the Todmorden curve. This was raised by a right reverend Prelate the last time I was asked a question on the railways in the north-west. It amused the House that I knew the answer. The snag is that I have forgotten that answer but I assure noble Lords that it remains the same.

Transport: Bus Stops

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Monday 22nd November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the Traffic Signs Regulations and General Directions 2002—TSRGD—include powers to provide bus stop clearways, which restrict parking and loading where appropriate. Those traffic authorities granted civil parking enforcement have powers under the Traffic Management Act 2004 to enforce against contraventions. Elsewhere, this is a matter for the police.

[Baroness Greengross]

I thank the Minister for that reply. Would he not agree that it is very regrettable that a number of local authorities do not seem to use their existing powers to make sure that the rules are enforced? A lot of transport consumer bodies have raised this issue because many disabled people, lots of older people and young parents with buggies find that they cannot get on to what are now generally accessible buses because there is a car parked in the way. Sometimes cyclists come up very quickly on the nearside and make them very scared. This is not working properly. Is there anything the Minister can do to make sure that local authorities use their enforcement powers?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, we encourage local authorities to use the powers available to them. A key point about bus stop clearways is that you do not need a traffic regulation order to set one up so they are easy for local authorities to implement.

[Lord Berkeley]

Will the Minister help the House by telling it how many prosecutions have been brought by the police or local authorities for such bus stop contraventions? Could he hazard a guess about how many fewer there will be after the number of policemen has been cut?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, unfortunately I cannot give a figure for the number of penalty charge notices issued, and if I had thought to ask that question, I would probably have been told that they cannot separate general parking offences and bus stop offences.

[Lord Jenkin of Roding]

My Lords, does my noble friend recognise that this is a particular problem for people with a sight handicap? It is very difficult for people, for instance, with a guide dog—I declare an interest as a former member of the council of the Guide Dogs for the Blind Association—to get on a bus when there is a large gap between the pavement and the bus because of a vehicle parked in the bus stop? As my noble friend said, the authorities have the power to prosecute for illegal parking in these circumstances. Will they be encouraged to use it?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, my noble friend is right that we have spent a lot of money on building buses that provide wheelchair access. That is wasted if an inconsiderate and selfish motorist parks in a bus stop. On prosecutions, we will encourage local authorities to prosecute and use the powers they have available, but we will not micromanage them.

[Lord Low of Dalston]

My Lords, picking up the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Jenkin, the problem of which I am most aware is that of cars parked illegally on pavements. Can the Government encourage the police to enforce more effectively the regulations that prohibit this? Essex Police has a very good scheme, I am told, that is making a difference. Perhaps the Government could encourage other forces to take a leaf out of Essex’s book.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I am not aware of what the Essex police have done, but I am fully aware that parking on pavements, especially when it is unexpected and there are no traffic signs allowing for such parking, is particularly dangerous to people with impaired vision.

[Lord Davies of Oldham]

My Lords, it is all right for the Minister to say at the Dispatch Box that he will encourage local authorities and the police to be more active, but the Government have plans to reduce significantly the resources available to the police and to cut local authority budgets by 30 per cent. Will he also address the question of whether the Highway Code is entirely clear about the obligations of motorists with regard to parking at bus stops?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, my officials take great interest and care in drafting replies to all Parliamentary Questions. During their research, it was discovered that there is an error in rule 240 of the Highway Code: it does not list bus stop clearways as somewhere you must stop. However, at the next printing that error will be corrected.

[Lord Bradshaw]

My Lords, will the noble Lord consider the fact that the police do not generally prosecute and the chances of them doing so are slight? Will he further consider that local authorities not only have the power, but that they keep the money they collect in fines for their own purposes? Will he ensure that local authorities are written to in order to underline the fact that they have the power and the money to effectively police such places as bus stops and disabled parking spaces?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the police get involved where a parked vehicle causes an obstruction or a safety problem and they can have the vehicle towed away. Local authorities keep the revenue raised from parking fines, but they have to be hypothecated for transport-related projects.

[Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville]

My Lords, moving marginally from bus stops, is my noble friend aware that there is a strong correlation between cars parked in disabled parking spaces outside the main entrances to supermarkets and drivers with a criminal record?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, yet again, I was not aware of that.

[Lord Harris of Haringey]

I am not sure whether the Minister has fully answered the questions from two of my noble friends about how he anticipates that enforcement activity will be enhanced in the context in which local authorities will be facing a substantial reduction in budgets and policing will also be stressed. Where will the extra enforcement activities come from?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I am fully aware of the forthcoming difficulties, but we have given local authorities increased flexibility by removing a lot of the ring-fencing on funding streams.

[Lord Elton]

My Lords, surely, parking offences pay for themselves with regard to parking wardens. Can this not be done by parking wardens?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the fines for parking infringements are set to deter illegal parking and to enable local authorities to recover the cost of enforcement.

Visas

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Thursday 18th November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Clement-Jones]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they have reviewed the process of issuing visas for Iraqi nationals and the location where they are issued.

[Earl Attlee]

The UK Border Agency has reviewed the visa service for Iraqi nationals, in consultation with the FCO and UK Trade and Investment. From early 2011, it will be implementing a limited expansion of the categories of applicant who may apply in Iraq, to include UKTI-sponsored business visitors and students coming to the UK under the Iraqi Prime Minister’s scholarship initiative. For ongoing security, financial and logistical reasons, Amman will remain the main decision-making centre.

[Lord Clement-Jones]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply but I must confess that I am not even sure that it is half a loaf. I am pleased for the British businesses that are sponsored by UKTI, which was extremely helpful in the recent trade delegation to Iraq. However, will the Minister ask the Home Office further to review the situation because Amman is not at all convenient for the vast bulk of Iraqi business people who have to wait there for up to two weeks? Will the Home Office and UKBA assist UKTI in its future efforts rather than hinder it?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, in principle my answer is yes to everything. I pay tribute to the noble Lord for his persistence in this area. We would like to do more as it would benefit UK business but the noble Lord, who has looked into this matter, will also understand some of the difficulties involved.

[Baroness Afshar]

My Lords, may I ask the noble Earl why students from the Middle East—that is, Iraq, Kurdistan, Iran and Afghanistan—are facing such difficulties? I declare an interest as somebody who teaches undergraduates and graduates at the University of York. We admit brilliant students who could be our best allies in the Middle East but then they cannot get a visa. Is there any way that we can recognise that we need good minds and allow them to come over?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Baroness makes an extremely important point. It is obviously in our interests to encourage foreign students to come to the UK to study. Our customer service standards show that, in September, 99 per cent of tier 4 student visa applications were processed in Amman within 10 working days. That is well within the service standard to process 90 per cent of such applications within 15 days.

[Lord Kirkwood of Kirkhope]

My Lords, the Minister’s Answer is very welcome as far as it goes, but will he undertake to look at how our commercial competitors compare in visa application issuing arrangements? Is he aware that the United States already has a full and normal visa issuing service, the French and the Germans are pretty much getting there and the Swedes, for heaven’s sake—if I can put it that way—are issuing 5,000 visas to Sweden every year, which is at least three times what the United Kingdom is able to do at the moment? As he rightly said, it is not just business but scholarship exchange programmes which are being prejudiced. When can we get a full and normal visa service for all incoming Iraqis to the United Kingdom?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, we will provide a full and normal visa service when the situation in Iraq allows it. It is obviously in our interests to do so. The noble Lord talked about the Germans. Following an expansion of German visa facilities in Iraq, suicide car bombers targeted the German embassy in Baghdad in April this year, killing a security guard. We will not take any unnecessary or avoidable risks with our personnel, whether UK or foreign.

[Lord Hunt of Kings Heath]

My Lords, this is a problem that does not apply just to Iraq but throughout the Middle East, including Libya. Can the noble Earl say a little more about his department’s approach as it applies to other countries in the Middle East?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, unfortunately not. I am briefed about the problems in Iraq, not the rest of the Middle East.

[The Lord Bishop of Exeter]

My Lords, the Minister will no doubt be aware that, following the terrible Baghdad atrocity of last month, al-Qaeda has issued a warning that it intends to turn its fire particularly on Christians and the Christian community. What will be the implications of this for British policies towards Iraq, particularly for those who will feel compelled to flee from such violence directed towards them?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, we are obviously extremely concerned about these developments and we will be monitoring the situation very carefully.

[The Earl of Clancarty]

My Lords, will not this Government see fit to make a proper public apology to the great Iranian film maker, Abbas Kiarostami, for the humiliating treatment he received in Tehran last year, when he tried, but failed, to obtain a visa to come here to direct the English National Opera, caught out as he was by immigration rules that are doing enormous cultural damage to this country?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I believe that this happened under the previous Administration. I am not aware of the case, but I shall write to the noble Earl.

[Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville]

My Lords, does my noble friend, in the context of Amman, recall the exchange in 1918 in a military hospital between a visiting general and a Scottish private? The general asked the private where he had been wounded. The private replied topographically, rather than anatomically: “Three miles the Ardnamurchan side of Baghdad, sir”.

[Earl Attlee]

That is a very interesting anecdote from my noble friend.

[Lord Tebbit]

My Lords, will my noble friend ask his colleagues who deal with visa applications more generally, particularly those for students, to look at these applications more carefully? When I advertise for staff to help look after my wife, we frequently get applications from people who are here on student visas and who simply disappear when I advise them that they should not, therefore, be available for full-time work.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Lord puts his finger on an extremely important point. One of the key roles of UKBA is to ensure that when people apply for a visa, they are genuine applicants and that they carry out the visit in the way that they said they would.

Roads: Charging

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Thursday 18th November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Berkeley]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government how they will implement their commitment to introduce lorry road-user charging.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, heavy goods vehicle road-user charging is being introduced to ensure a fairer arrangement for UK hauliers. The details of the scheme and offsetting measures to help UK hauliers are still to be finalised. It must operate within relevant EU legislation and apply to both UK and foreign hauliers. New legislation will be needed.

[Lord Berkeley]

I am grateful to the noble Earl for that Answer, but my Question asked how the Government were going to do it. Will the Government go for time-based or distance-based charging? As regards coming to that decision, is he aware that time-based systems are fully open to fraud—30 per cent of revenue in Switzerland is lost through fraud—and that the costs of implementing them are about 40 per cent of the revenue, compared with 10 per cent for those that are distance-based? Can the noble Earl assure me that he will take that into account when coming to a decision?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, it may be helpful if I run through the options. The Government are looking at options that are simpler and cheaper than the satellite-based lorry road-user charging system that the previous Government failed to implement. A time-based charge would be the simplest option, but it has the difficulties that the noble Lord outlined. Distance-based charges based on tachograph readings, or roadside equipment detecting vehicles as they pass, have advantages, but they are more complex and significantly more expensive to implement. The Government expect to be able to give more details in the spring.

[Lord Bradshaw]

Will the noble Earl also consider the number of accidents that are caused in this country by foreign-registered vehicles? They of course pay no tax, they use fuel from outside the country and they burden the health service with a lot more work.

[Earl Attlee]

The noble Lord makes an important point, of which my department is well aware. However, the objective of the lorry road-user charging scheme is to ensure a competitive and free market for all operators, whether UK or foreign.

[Lord Kinnock]

My Lords, I strongly welcome the action being taken by the Government in pursuit of an entirely necessary policy. In view of the various complications, could not the Government, so far as concerns both heavy vehicles and other vehicles, pursue the cruder but nevertheless effective course of abolishing road fund licences and heavy goods licences and replacing them with fuel charges, which would at least produce an equitable and economic relationship between road use, the nature of vehicles and the effect on the environment?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes an interesting point. One problem that we experience is foreign vehicles coming in with very large fuel tanks, sometimes containing in excess of 1,000 litres of fuel, which enable them to travel all around the UK and then leave without buying any fuel here. There is also an EU directive on the minimum vehicle excise duty rate.

[Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe]

What does the Minister think of the German satellite tracking scheme? It is more expensive than some of the alternative systems that are available, but does it not provide an investment that could be built on in future and used to track all traffic?

[Earl Attlee]

The noble Lord makes an important point. We are looking very closely at what our European partners are doing. It is important to remember that their problems are slightly different from ours. European states have a lot of through traffic. We do not have so much through traffic, but we do have lots of foreign vehicles coming to deliver to the UK.

[Lord Dykes]

Will the Minister confirm that the plans will include a close look at the prepaid plastic card system for distance travelling, which is likely to be gradually and increasingly adopted in all European member states and will create a single market in road haulage costs?

[Earl Attlee]

The noble Lord makes an extremely good point. It is one of the obvious options to look at.

[Lord Davies of Oldham]

My Lords, what is the Minister’s explanation for the length of time that is being taken over the introduction of the scheme? The Government courted the heavy goods vehicle industry in this country by saying in their manifesto that they intended to introduce a scheme. The coalition agreement and the business plan of the department stated that the scheme would be introduced, and yet we are now looking at a delay of at least four years before a scheme is introduced. Why is this, and will the Minister also rule out a charge that must be paid not just by foreign heavy goods vehicle operators but also by home-based hauliers?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, on the noble Lord's substantive point, we are anxious to avoid making the mistakes of the previous Government, who spent £60 million of public money on a satellite lorry road-user charging scheme that achieved absolutely nothing.

[Lord Campbell-Savours]

Why is the tachography option more expensive—which is what the noble Earl said—when all it would require would be an entry reading and an exit reading to provide a calculation based on a multiplication of the cost per mile?

[Earl Attlee]

The noble Lord is quite right: it is an option that we are looking at very carefully. However, he will also be aware that it is quite easy to interfere with the operation of the tachograph—for instance, by placing a large magnet on the transducer or an illegal switch in the electrical circuitry.

Asylum (First List of Safe Countries) (Amendment) Order 2010

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Wednesday 10th November 2010 Lords Chamber

Moved By

[Earl Attlee]

That the draft regulations laid before the House on 11 October and the draft order laid before the House on 12 October be approved.

Relevant Document: 3rd Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, considered in Grand Committee on 8 November.

Motions agreed.

Asylum (First List of Safe Countries) (Amendment) Order 2010

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Monday 8th November 2010 Grand Committee

Moved By

[Earl Attlee]

That the Grand Committee do report to the House that it has considered the Asylum (First List of Safe Countries) (Amendment) Order 2010.

Relevant document: 3rd Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the order adds Switzerland to the first list of safe third countries set out in Part 2 of Schedule 3 to the Asylum and Immigration (Treatment of Claimants, etc.) Act 2004. This provision is concerned with situations in which an asylum seeker may be removed to a safe third country—that is, one of which he or she is not a national or citizen—without substantive consideration of the asylum claim. Countries in the first list of safe countries are presumed to be places from which an asylum seeker will not be returned in breach of the refugee convention or the European Convention on Human Rights.

Provided that the Secretary of State is able to certify, therefore, that the applicant is not a national or citizen of the state listed, the applicant may be removed to it and no right of appeal lies against the decision on the grounds of presumed or deemed safety. In other words, the applicant cannot bring an appeal arguing that the country in question is not safe.

Applicants may resist their removal on other human rights grounds in the usual way, although provision is made for such claims to be certified as clearly unfounded unless we are satisfied that they are not. If the claim is so certified, any appeal may be made only outside the United Kingdom. The Part 2 list currently includes all member states of the European Union, Iceland and Norway, all of which are bound by the arrangements for determining responsibility for examining an asylum claim set down in EC Regulation No. 343/2003, also known as the Dublin II Regulation. This regulation determines which member state is responsible for dealing with an asylum claim made within the EU or in another participating country. Dublin II combats the problem of asylum shopping in Europe by making one participating state—most often, though not always, the first one that the asylum seeker entered or the one in which he or she first claimed asylum—responsible for an asylum applicant and allowing him or her to be returned there if he or she tries to make a claim somewhere else. Since 2004, the Dublin regulation has allowed us to remove a net total of more than 7,500 people to other participating states.

Switzerland has signed an agreement with the EU allowing it to join the Dublin system and has been taking part in it since December 2008. The UK Border Agency has considered research from a number of sources, including UNHCR reports and the US State Department, and has conducted its own country research. We are satisfied that Switzerland has adequate procedures in place to ensure that individuals will neither be exposed to persecution in Switzerland nor be returned to their country of origin in breach of the refugee convention. We therefore believe that it is appropriate to make this order, which will allow us to operate the Dublin II Regulation with Switzerland as effectively as possible. I beg to move.

[Lord Rosser]

My Lords, as the Minister said, the order adds Switzerland to the list of safe third countries to which an asylum seeker can be removed from the UK without substantive consideration of the merits of his or her asylum claim. One effect is that there is no scope to contest removal to the third country on refugee convention grounds either before or after removal from the UK.

The Secretary of State has said that she is satisfied that removing asylum seekers to Switzerland will not be in breach of the European Convention on Human Rights and that any asylum seeker returned to Switzerland will be afforded the rights and benefits accorded to all asylum seekers under its domestic law. Paragraph 8.1 of the Explanatory Memorandum refers to:

“Extensive research into the treatment of asylum seekers in Switzerland”,

having been,

“carried out using objective material and information provided by the Swiss authorities”.

Can the Minister say a little more about what that objective material was? From what is said in the Explanatory Memorandum, one takes it that it is independent material, but it would be helpful if the Minister could say a little more on that score.

The list of safe third countries includes, as the Minister said, all member states of the European Union and states in the European economic area. The Explanatory Memorandum also states that since December 2008 eight asylum seekers have been removed to Switzerland. Can the Minister tell us in general terms something about the eight cases? Did the people involved seek to contest the decision to remove them? Have there been any cases of decisions to remove to Switzerland being successfully contested and, if so, on what grounds did they succeed? On what general grounds or basis was Switzerland considered in these cases to be the appropriate country in respect of those eight asylum seekers? Was it, as the Minister said in his introductory comments, that Switzerland was the first country entered? With the introduction of this order, is there expected to be an increase in the number of asylum seekers being removed to Switzerland if the process is simplified?

Paragraphs 10.2 and 12.1 of the Explanatory Memorandum state that adding Switzerland to the safe third country list and its associated procedures will reduce the scope for errors. What kinds of errors are referred to in these two paragraphs?

This does not appear to be a contentious order but, finally, there is a reference in paragraph 12.2 of the Explanatory Memorandum to the instrument being,

“subjected to internal review within the UK Border Agency to ensure that it has met that aim”.

When that internal review has been undertaken, will the results be made public?

[Baroness Hamwee]

My Lords, this is not a contentious order, but one phrase that the Minister used in his introduction caught my attention. He referred to the net total of those subjected to these orders since 2004. Is that the net total of those who have come into the UK? Net is not a term that I would have expected to hear in the context.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed to this short debate on the order. The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, asked what constituted objective material: the answer is the US State Department reports that I mentioned and the experience of that country. Switzerland is clearly going to be a safe country as it is another European country, although obviously not part of the European Union, and so I do not see any difficulties. However, we had to go through a rigorous objective assessment of that state.

The noble Lord referred to the number of asylum seekers. Clearly, there are very few asylum seekers being sent back to Switzerland because it is not an obvious country for them to first arrive at. I was asked whether there would be an increase in removals to Switzerland. The answer is, no, the numbers are very low, but some asylum seekers will be subjected to this new procedure. The noble Lord needs to understand that procedures are already in place to allow removals but the Secretary of State must give each case a more difficult and protracted consideration. Once this order is approved, it will be easier for the Secretary of State to require removal.

The noble Lord touched on the scope for errors. It is sensible to have a universal procedure for all asylum seekers. Having different procedures for one very small proportion of asylum seekers seems unwise, and therefore it is better to approve this order and reduce the scope for errors. However, that does not mean that lots of errors are occurring.

The noble Baroness asked about the net total. I have not had any inspiration on that yet. The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, asked how many removals had been challenged. I shall have to write to him on that one, but there have been 12 removals since the Explanatory Memorandum was published.

[Baroness Hamwee]

Will the Minister write with the answer to my question?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I shall write on the questions that I have not answered.

[Lord Rosser]

One question to which the Minister has not responded—and I can hardly imagine that it is a difficult one—is whether or not the results of the internal review will be made public.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I am afraid that I shall have to write on that one as well.

Motion agreed.

Immigration (Biometric Registration) (Amendment) Regulations 2010

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Monday 8th November 2010 Grand Committee

Moved By

[Earl Attlee]

That the Grand Committee do report to the House that it has considered the Immigration (Biometric Registration) (Amendment) Regulations 2010.

Relevant document: 3rd Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, on 25 November 2008 the UK Border Agency issued the first biometric residence permits, through regulations made under the UK Borders Act 2007, to applicants granted further leave under student, marriage and partnership categories. In 2009, the regulations were amended to include students applying under tier 4 of the points-based system and other, smaller categories. January 2010 saw the rollout to skilled workers extending their stay under tier 2, and now I beg to move that the Immigration (Biometric Registration) (Amendment) Regulations 2010 be considered to incorporate the two remaining active tiers of the points-based system for migration.

In addition to those in migration categories who are already required to apply for a biometric residence permit, the regulations will introduce the biometric registration requirement for migrant workers applying to extend their stay in the UK for more than six months under tiers 1 and 5 of the points-based system, and for their dependants. Tier 1 covers highly skilled workers, investors, entrepreneurs and post-study work. Tier 5 is for certain types of sponsored temporary workers whose entry helps satisfy cultural, charitable, religious or international objectives. These permits enable the UK to comply with European regulation EC 1030/2002, as amended by EC 380/2008, which prescribes uniform residence permits containing fingerprints and photograph to be issued to third-country nationals staying in member states for more than six months.

Key to any immigration control system is the ability to establish that a migrant granted leave to enter or remain in the UK is the rightful holder of immigration status set out in the document that evidences that entitlement. The integrity of immigration control is threatened by those who seek to make multiple fraudulent immigration applications, to work illegally and to access public funds and services to which they are not entitled. By enrolling a migrant’s unique biometric information, we can establish a reliable link between the holder and the permit. We can link the biographical details they give us to their unique biometric identifiers and check a person against our existing records before deciding whether to grant their application to be in the UK.

Biometric residence permits make it easier and more reliable for the UK Border Agency, employers and public service providers to confirm a person’s immigration status and eligibility to entitlements in the UK. The infrastructure for these permits is in place and permits have been well received by legitimate migrants, employers and service providers as a secure and reliable way of confirming identity, immigration status, the right to work and the entitlement to access services. With more than 300,000 biometric residence permits now issued, the permit is now widely recognised and trusted as a secure immigration document. Guidance on checking the cards is available on the UK Border Agency’s website and a telephone verification service is available for employers.

To date, the rollout has largely run smoothly, with the majority of successful applicants receiving their permits within a few days of being notified that their application for further leave was granted. Enrolment provision has been expanded to meet customer need, with 11 Home Office biometric enrolment centres and 17 Crown Post Offices offering enrolment.

I will briefly set out the categories to which regulations already apply. Biometric residence permits are currently issued to those granted further leave to stay in the UK for more than six months as skilled workers applying under tier 2 of the points-based system, which is for people coming to fill shortage occupations or a gap in the labour market that cannot be filled by a settled worker and includes elite sportspersons and coaches, ministers of religion, missionaries or members of religious orders.

Tier 4 of the points-based system, which is for students is also already covered, along with a number of other categories of applicant extending for more than six months: spouses and partners of persons present and settled in the United Kingdom, representatives of overseas businesses, academic visitors, visitors for private medical treatment, domestic workers in private households, those applying on the grounds of United Kingdom ancestry and retired persons of independent means. Those transferring their conditions of limited leave from an old passport are also covered. Where the Immigration Rules allow dependants to join the applicant, the biometric regulations also apply to them, whenever they make such an application.

The 2010 regulations build from the previous biometric registration regulations and take us further towards complying fully with our obligations under EU regulations. To complete rollout to all tiers of the points-based system, we now seek to incorporate tiers 1 and 5. Tier 1 is designed to attract to the UK the brightest and best migrants from around the world who have the most to contribute to our economy and the Committee will be aware that the Immigration Minister recently confirmed:

“Those coming into the UK under the highly skilled migrant route should only be able to do highly skilled jobs—it should not be used as a means to enter the low-skilled jobs market”.

There are four sub-categories: general, for the most highly skilled workers, who are granted free access to the UK labour market so that they can look for work or self-employment opportunities; entrepreneurs, for those investing in the UK by setting up or taking over and being actively involved in the running of one or more businesses; investors, for high-net-worth individuals making a substantial financial investment—at least £1 million—to the UK; and post-study work, for the most able international graduates who have studied here, to enhance the UK’s overall offer to international students and providing a bridge to highly skilled or skilled work.

Tier 5 is for youth mobility and temporary workers who are coming to work in the UK for short periods for primarily non-economic objectives. There are two sub-categories of tier 5: temporary workers, for certain types of temporary worker whose entry helps to satisfy cultural, charitable, religious or international objectives, and the youth mobility scheme. Those coming to the UK under this sub-category are not able to extend their stay in the UK under the Immigration Rules so will not be affected by these regulations.

I am happy to try to answer specific questions about these regulations if noble Lords wish to raise them. I commend these regulations to the Committee. I believe they are proving to be a useful tool in tackling illegal immigration and illegal working. Employers have told us they welcome the documents as a secure and reliable means of confirming the right to work. When we intend introducing further categories of foreign nationals who are required to apply for a biometric residence permit, we will return to Parliament and seek further approval. I hope that I have explained the purpose of the regulations, and I beg to move.

--- Later in debate ---

[Baroness Hamwee]

I, too, am grateful for the explanation. I have given the Minister notice of some questions which, in fact, cover very much the same ground as those asked by the noble Lord, Lord Rosser.

On the question of compliance with EU requirements; to put it another way round—what more is outstanding on that score for the UK fully to comply? My other questions are practical in regard to enrolment and access by employers to the information. I am unclear how biometric information, as distinct from simply the production of the card, makes it easier for employers to check eligibility to work in the UK—something which the impact assessment tells us will be the case. Can employers check the position without having access to a reader? The Minister mentioned a telephone verification service. I do not know whether I am confusing the different bits of the mechanics of this, but I am unclear what that service will provide.

The Minister also talked about 11 centres for enrolment, plus 17 Crown post offices. This seems to have been an issue in the consultation. What further rollout will there be and what geographical coverage has already been obtained by the centres that are in place? They seem to be quite small in number.

[Earl Attlee]

I am grateful for noble Lords’ questions about this. The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, asked about the rollout and whether the UK would be fully compliant by 2012 as per the regulations. Yes, it will. Companies are becoming familiar with them, because there are 300,000 in circulation. Certain types of companies tend to use more migrant labour and are therefore more familiar. He asked how many more would be issued. We think about 80,000 per annum. He also asked about consultation. In the Explanatory Memorandum there is a very long list of people consulted, but I shall not weary your Lordships by reading it out.

The noble Lord touched on enrolment capacity and limitations. That is one reason why we did not introduce the BRPs in one go. It is a rollout programme, taking in new tiers.

I was asked how an employer can check a BRP without a reader. Guidance clearly sets out that the security features of BRPs are available to download from the UK Border Agency website. There is also a BRP verification telephone service, which employers can call to check whether a card has been cancelled—for example, because it has been reported lost or stolen.

I was asked where applicants can register their biometric identifiers. They can do so at one of 11 Home Office biometric enrolment offices around the UK, or one of 17 Crown post offices participating in a pilot. At present there are 28 venues located at UK Border Agency inquiry offices at Croydon, Solihull, Sheffield, Liverpool, Glasgow, Belfast and Cardiff. There are also biometric enrolment centres at passport service offices enrolling foreign nationals on behalf of the UK Border Agency at London Elephant and Castle, Birmingham, Derby and Brighton. The post offices are at Aberdeen, Beckenham, Beeston, Bracknell, Cambridge, Durham, Kingstanding, Battersea, Camden, Earls Court, Old Street, Middleton, Oxford, Redditch, Romsey, South Shields and Stamford. So there are plenty of locations.

We have also rolled out a mobile biometric enrolment service for those physically unable to attend an enrolment centre for medical or other reasons. This service is also available as an exclusive super-premium service whereby UK Border Agency officers will visit an applicant to enrol their biometric information—fingerprints, photograph and signature—and decide and conclude their application. This costs £15,000. The super-premium service is not currently available to customers applying for an extension of leave under a category that does not require a BRP, or applying for permanent residency or citizenships.

I was asked what we were doing to address the problems that applicants have experienced when applying for BRPs. Most have not experienced problems. The UK Border Agency takes any problems or issues very seriously, and is determined to learn lessons and continuously improve the service provided to its customers. It investigates any complaints received and aims to resolve them as quickly as possible and take steps to put things right if and when they have gone wrong. The vast majority of people find applying for a permit trouble-free. We have been collecting customer feedback and the vast majority of responses have been very positive.

I was asked why applying for a BRP delays applications. It does not do so, but the biometric enrolment must take place before the case is concluded, so that we can check the applicant against the existing databases and link their biographical details provided to the unique biometric identifiers.

The noble Baroness, Lady Hamwee, asked several questions. First, she asked what more was required for the UK fully to comply with the EU requirements. EU legislation requires BRPs to be issued to all non-EEA migrants, granting permission to stay in the UK for more than six months, by May 2012. We are on target to do that. She asked how biometric information, as distinct from the card itself, makes it easier for employers to check eligibility in the UK and whether that did not require employers to use a reader to check the information. Biometric information makes the link between the document and the holder more reliable, which in turn means that employers can have more confidence in the BRP than other less sophisticated documents. Currently, an employer can perform a visual check of the biometric facial image incorporated into the face of the card against the person present as well as checking the BRP’s security features and using the telephone verification service. We are currently developing plans for an automated online checking service. In time, readers capable of unlocking the data on the chip will be more readily available and will enable employers to check the biometric information of the person presenting the document against the facial image and fingerprints stored on the chip. They will also have the ability to authenticate the document electronically.

Roads: Drink-drive Limit

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Thursday 4th November 2010 Lords Chamber

[Lord Clinton-Davis]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they plan to review the drink-drive limit.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the Government are committed to improving road safety and reducing the number of drink-related road casualties. As the House knows, the previous Government commissioned Sir Peter North to undertake an independent review of measures to combat drink and drug driving in Great Britain. We are considering the report’s recommendations. We have reached no conclusions yet, but we aim to respond to the report by the end of the year.

Lord Clinton-Davis: My Lords, is the Minister able to give an assurance that the Government will seriously consider the North committee’s proposal to reduce alcohol limits to 50 milligrams per 100 millilitres of blood, in line with the prescription pursued by the Governments of Germany, France, Holland, Spain and Italy. Why should we be the sole exception? Would he acknowledge that, if the North committee’s report was followed, hundreds of lives would be saved?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, we will consider the report very carefully indeed. On the noble Lord’s point about other countries, they have lower limits, but they also have much lower penalties for low blood alcohol concentrations.

There are thought to be two groups of drinkers. There are regulated drinkers who drink at home and who, if they drink out, arrange their affairs so that they do not need to drink and drive. Such drinkers know how much they have drunk and, if they do offend, it is a terrible mistake for them. It is relatively easy for the police to detect such people if they drink and drive, and they are terrified of being caught because of the consequences. There are also unregulated drinkers who do not control how much they drink, are clinically or socially dependent upon alcohol, will drive with a BAC far in excess of the legal limit and have no intention of adhering to the drink-drive legislation.

[Lord Waddington]

Another problem in addition to that which the noble Lord seeks to identify is the prevalence of driving under the influence of drugs. What progress is being made towards the development of a device that could be used at the roadside to prove that a person has been affected by taking drugs?

[Earl Attlee]

The noble Lord makes an extremely important point. We are making good progress with drink-driving, but drug-driving is increasing. The noble Lord referred to roadside testing. It is important to have a Home Office-approved roadside testing device in order to be able to move on to the invasive procedure of taking a blood sample without the need for a doctor.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

My Lords, I first declare an interest as a member of the Campaign Against Drinking and Driving. My mother was killed by a drunk driver—our neighbour at that stage—who was not a long-standing overdrinker in the way that the noble Earl said but a normal drinker. When the Minister looks at the North report, I ask him to remember that we could reduce drink-driving deaths by about 150 a year from its present level of perhaps 400 a year. That would save 150 families what I and my family went through. Will he resist the blandishments that he will undoubtedly receive from the drinks industry and take this important step forward?

--- Later in debate ---

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, first, I have had no blandishments from the drinks industry and am actually quite surprised by how little effort it is putting into lobbying the Government. Clearly, it is lobbying, but not as much as it could.

Going back to my point about regulated and unregulated drinkers, I think that it is not clear how lowering the BAC, which would have a significant impact on regulated drinkers, would have any beneficial effect on unregulated drinkers who have no intention whatever of meeting their moral or legal obligations.

[Lord Avebury]

My Lords, in 2009, drink-drivers caused 390 deaths and almost 23,000 serious injuries at a cost to the taxpayer of £15.6 billion. How many of these casualties could have been avoided and how much of this expenditure could have been saved if we had reduced the legal limit to 20 milligrams, as is the case in Sweden? What other measures in the report that has been referred to, such as making persistent offenders pass a test before they can resume driving after a ban, are now being considered?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, we need to consider carefully the effect of lowering the blood alcohol limit. Suppose that we lowered the BAC to 50 milligrams and a traffic patrol detected a motorist driving with a BAC of 65 milligrams. It would take the patrol at least an hour to process the suspect, during which time it would be unable to detect the unregulated drinker to whom I referred, who might be driving with a BAC far in excess of the current limits.

[Lord Patel of Bradford]

My Lords, will the Minister tell us what the Government are doing to raise awareness of the potentially serious problems of using prescription drugs when driving, alongside their measures to prevent the use of illegal drugs when driving?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the North report covers this issue in some detail, and we are considering it as part of our deliberations on the North report.

[Lord Geddes]

Is my noble friend aware of the 1998 report of European Union Sub-Committee B? I doubt whether much has changed in this context in 12 years. The report concluded that the benefits of reducing the limit from 80 milligrams to 50 milligrams were at best highly marginal. Would he advise the House of his opinion of the benefits of random testing over the present system?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the police already have wide powers to stop vehicles and to test for alcohol, and many forces carry out intelligence-led, targeted breath testing where drinking is known to take place. Sir Peter has recommended a specific power to sanction random testing, and we have to consider whether this is necessary and cost-effective, bearing in mind that most drivers are regulated drinkers or teetotal.