Consumers: Low-Cost Flight Information
Earl Attlee Excerpts(12 years, 11 months ago)
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Earl Attlee
My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, for introducing this Question for Short Debate and to all other noble Lords who have contributed.
In an open free-market economy such as ours, with its age-old emphasis on enterprise and initiative, there can be no objection to firms choosing business models that suit their aims, even if it causes them reputational issues. My noble friend Lord Black of Brentwood described some of the benefits of low-cost airlines. They have been innovative and successful, and have grown into important players in the aviation industry, employing substantial numbers of people and utilising great amounts of capital. Schedule airlines, operating to different business models, are holding their own. I should therefore like to add to the premise of the noble Lord’s debate that people buying scheduled airline tickets on the internet also need access to the information they require.
The UK aviation market is diverse and supports consumer choice. What suits a solo flyer with no baggage might not suit a family of four with hold baggage who would like a meal on their flight. The UK’s aviation market has evolved to support these different needs. As a consequence of this diversity and choice, air fares can come with a range of extras, fees and charges. Airlines are required to publish on their websites the information about these fees and charges, but it can be hard for consumers to compare them when they are shopping around for the best price for an air ticket, as has been pointed out by many noble Lords.
The Government’s position is to support the aviation consumer in two principal ways. First, there must be transparency about what is and what is not included in the price. The consumer must know how much to pay in total before he clicks to accept the deal. Secondly, adequate information must be provided for the consumer to make an informed choice on which airline to fly with, regardless of the business model that that airline follows. I will give examples in support of that position.
EU Regulation No. 1008 sets out common rules for the operation of EU air services. Crucially, it sets out the transparency requirements for the display of air fares. Prices are required to be displayed inclusive of all unavoidable and foreseeable taxes, fees and charges at all times. Optional services such as checked baggage or priority boarding are required to be offered on an opt-in basis only. These services should be clearly and unambiguously displayed at the start of the booking process. These requirements are designed to ensure that consumers are able to compare the prices of flights across a number of airlines and that consumers select only the optional extras that they require. The requirements are strongly supported by the Government.
I now turn to another specific proposal that will significantly help consumers. We wish to help purchasers to compare services from different providers on the basis of accurate information. Aviation markets can deliver best value only where objective service information is freely available so that passengers and freight owners have genuine choice between suppliers. We have therefore included in the Civil Aviation Bill currently being considered in Committee in another place a new information duty on the CAA either to publish, or to arrange for the aviation sector to publish, consumer information and advice that it considers appropriate to help people to compare aviation services. This new publication duty would allow the CAA to move into areas where it cannot always obtain information from public sources, such as delays, complaints, baggage handling and environmental performance. The CAA would be able to penalise companies that withheld the data requested. The CAA must also ensure that the benefits of providing information outweigh the costs, so that it does not duplicate existing information or provide data that consumers do not want. The best protection for consumers in terms of choice and value lies in the operation of a competitive market. Consumers need clear information on price and service quality in order to make informed choices, and to ensure that markets deliver consumer benefits in practice. I look forward to discussing these, and other, aspects of the Bill further when it is introduced into your Lordships’ House.
We share consumers’ concern about the high level of payment surcharges applied by some companies, and that often people are not aware of the level of these charges until almost the end of the booking process. This makes it difficult to compare prices and shop around for a good deal. It is not right that a business tries to hide the true cost of its services by implying that its prices are made up of elements beyond its control when they are not.
What are the Government doing? First, consumers are already protected against misleading pricing under the Consumer Protection from Unfair Trading Regulations. Secondly, as mentioned by my noble friend Lord Black of Brentwood, last December the Government announced their intention to consult on early implementation of the payment surcharges provision of the new European consumer rights directive ahead of their transposition deadline in 2014. The provision will ban businesses, in scope, from charging customers fees which exceed the costs for using that means of payment. The Government plan public consultation on early implementation within the next few months, with the aim that new UK rules could take effect by the end of 2012. The Government will publish guidance prior to the change taking effect to help businesses adjust their pricing strategies to comply with the provision. I stress that this work is about ensuring transparency in headline prices, and not about price control. The aim is to ensure that only the true cost of using a particular means of payment can be charged separately where a business wishes to do so.
I have been asked several questions. I will my do best to answer them, but if I fail, I will of course write in the usual way. On the general point about ticket transparency and how consumers can effectively compare prices, including hidden charges, the Civil Aviation Authority has published a table showing the optional charges which apply when booking with major airlines operating in the UK. This is a valuable tool which will assist consumers in making informed decisions when booking flights.
The noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, asked me when we will stop airlines charging huge fees for printing a boarding pass at check-in. The business model adopted by some well known carriers requires passengers to check-in online and print their own boarding pass. This is legitimate so long as people are clearly aware of it. There is no restriction on the level of charge that an airline may impose for this service. The sum of €40 has been widely quoted. This appears rather excessive, and is unlikely to reflect the true cost to the airline of printing a pass. This practice, along with the identity of the carriers which employ it, has been well published, including in your Lordships’ House tonight. Wherever possible, consumers should take steps to avoid liability to pay the charge. If this appears unfeasible, it is perhaps a factor which they should take into account before booking the flight.
The noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, also talked about the EU 261 levy. EU Regulation 261/2004 gives air consumers rights to assistance and compensation in the event of their flight being cancelled or delayed for over three hours, or if they are denied boarding—that is, bumped off the flight for someone else. In April 2011, Michael O’Leary announced that Ryanair would impose a €2 EU 261 levy on its air tickets. This was marketed as a measure forced on the airline by the EU. In fact, it is a form of Ryanair self-insurance to pay for the obligations that Regulation 261 imposes on the airlines.
The noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, also asked how often consumers compare prices effectively, including hidden charges. I have mentioned the Civil Aviation Authority table. He also asked about the refund of taxes when passengers do not fly. Government taxes, such as air passenger duty, should not be paid if the passenger does not fly. Many carriers will refund this element of the fare on application. However, they may charge an administration fee for doing so and in practice this may swallow up most or all of the amount due to be repaid to the consumer.
My noble friend Lord Alderdice told us, with some justification, about his distressing experience of no-frills airlines. EU Regulation 1107/2006 gives those who are disabled or who have reduced mobility rights to travel. Wheelchair access to aircraft is not chargeable.
My noble friend also talked about the Which? super-complaint. In 2011, the Which? consumer magazine submitted a super-complaint to the OFT, calling for it to investigate excessive surcharges for paying by credit or debit cards.
My noble friend Lord Alderdice also asked about the delay in the implementation of the consumer rights directive until 2014. Although the directive will take two years to come into effect throughout Europe, it is due to be transposed into national law by mid-2014. The OFT has said that companies should be up-front about charges straight away, and the Government propose to consult on early implementation in the UK.
My noble friend also asked what assessment has been made of the effectiveness of Article 23.
Lord Alderdice
I asked whether what the Minister in another place said was true—that implementation would be delayed until the end of 2014.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I think it is probably better if I concentrate on answering as much as I can and, if necessary, write to my noble friend.
Aviation is fundamentally an international business. The Government do not intend to introduce tighter restrictions on airline pricing policies in isolation. The European Commission has undertaken a fitness check on the fare transparency requirements, during which it has taken evidence from airlines, the travel industry, enforcement bodies and consumer groups. Its findings have yet to emerge but we understand that the evidence suggests that the rules are not enforced consistently across Europe.
In conclusion, we take this matter seriously. I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Mitchell, for posing his Question this evening.
Lord Young of Norwood Green
I do think that the noble Earl should clarify the situation because now I am confused. I thought that he had given us a more helpful answer when he said that the consultation on the payment surcharges provision would take place during 2012 and that the new rules would be introduced in 2012. However, the last comment that he made in response to the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, left us somewhat confused. Will the Minister clarify whether the rules are likely to be introduced in advance of the European directive in 2014? What timetable are the Government working to?
Earl Attlee
The intention is that the Government will see the effect of these new regulations as early as possible. My speech was carefully crafted but if I have missed anything out I shall of course write to noble Lords to clarify any details as necessary.
Gypsies and Travellers
Earl Attlee Excerpts(13 years ago)
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Baroness Whitaker
To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will consult on a fresh definition of Gypsies and Travellers which would entitle all persons with a cultural tradition of nomadism or of living in a caravan to Gypsy status for the purposes of planning policy and legislation.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the Government published their new draft planning policy for Traveller sites for full public consultation last year. The consultation included a question about whether the current definition of Gypsies and Travellers for the purposes of planning policy should be retained. The Government are currently considering all responses to the consultation on their new draft planning policy.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Baroness’s description of the current definition is right. Some of the responses to our consultation on our draft new planning policy for Travellers’ sites suggested that there should be a separate consultation on the definition. The Government are considering all the responses to the consultation. We shall have to wait to see what emerges from that.
Lord Laming
My Lords, does the noble Earl accept that one of the greatest challenges in respect of those who live a nomadic life is to secure continuous and proper education for the next generation—the children—so that they can have not only a choice in their lifestyle in the future and settle into society but fulfil their potential as human beings?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right, which is why I saw a separate briefing from officials at the Department for Education.
Lord Avebury
My Lords, can we now assume that there will be a further consultation on the revised national planning policy framework that incorporates a version of the Traveller document, as recommended by the CLG Select Committee? If so, will the new composite document include a revised and more inclusive definition of Gypsies and Travellers for the purposes of both housing and planning which is based on the Housing Act 2004?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I am sorry that I cannot be more helpful to my noble friend but we will have to wait to see what the Government’s response is. However, we will not have to wait too long.
Lord Tebbit
My Lords, should there not be an assumption that those of us who live at a fixed abode cannot have the advantages of also living in a caravan and wandering around? Equally, should not those who want to wander around and live a nomadic life accept that there are disadvantages to it and not expect us to divvy up in some way or another to subsidise them?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Lord makes an interesting point. However, we all know what the problem is: poor education among Travellers; poor health outcomes; low life expectancy; and severe discrimination. We have policies to mitigate all these. However, at strategic level, successive Governments do not appear to understand what legitimate economic activity consistent with their culture Travellers should be engaged in. I will be taking up that matter with my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Communities and Local Government.
Lord Richard
My Lords, does not the problem go rather deeper than the way in which the Minister seems to be approaching it? The noble Lord, Lord Tebbit, put his finger on one of the issues. Is not the fact that there are not enough sites in this country the real reason why so many people who want to live a nomadic life cannot do so? Therefore, they have to go into static accommodation, which they probably do not want to be in anyway, and which no doubt has planning problems and upsets the neighbours. However, the real problem here is that there are not enough sites for nomadic peoples to go to.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Lord is right in his analysis. The problem is to find a long-term solution, which is why I referred to the problem of economic activity. Without legitimate economic activity for Travellers, local communities will not be keen on having Traveller sites near them. That is the nub of the problem.
Lord Kilclooney
My Lords, during this period of consultation, will the Government look further at the apparent ease with which foreign Gypsies and Travellers enter the United Kingdom?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I am not sure exactly which problem the noble Lord refers to, because there are a few, but I will communicate with him outside the Chamber.
Lord Boswell of Aynho
My Lords, as a matter of equitable treatment, is it not reasonable that if we are asking Gypsies and Travellers to meet their obligations under the law we should at the same time devise the most sensitive and comprehensive measures of their nature and definition, so that they can avail themselves of their proper rights as a minority—and they should receive those rights as well as meet their obligations?
Earl Attlee
I broadly agree with what the noble Lord is saying. Everyone has rights but they also have obligations—and the obligations are to comply with the law.
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall
My Lords, I wonder whether the Minister could return to the question from the noble Lord, Lord Laming. The noble Earl said that he had received a briefing from the Department for Education on the issue raised by the noble Lord. Is he prepared to share with the House what the briefing says?
Cyclists: Accidents
Earl Attlee Excerpts(13 years ago)
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Baroness Gardner of Parkes
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what plans they have to reduce the number of serious bicycle accidents in London.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I am sure that all noble Lords will agree with me that every road accident is a tragedy. With regard to the roads in London, under devolution it is for the mayor and Transport for London to decide their cycling priorities and allocate their budget accordingly. We will of course continue to work closely with them to improve safety.
Baroness Gardner of Parkes
Is the Minister aware that more women cyclists are killed or suffer very serious injuries on these junctions than men? The reason, it is believed, is because the women wait at the red lights and the men go through them. Large vehicles turning left have a degree of difficulty in seeing people. For that reason, I would like his comments on the so-called “Trixie” mirror—not named after me, and nothing to do with me, I might add—which is proposed for large lorries. Will he also suggest that the Government look into the possibility of the system just being introduced in Paris whereby at dangerous junctions they will have specific lights for cyclists?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Baroness asked me about the male/female ratio. We are aware of the hypothesis. The figures for accidents are mercifully low but, unfortunately, increasing. It is difficult to extract measurable data to formulate policy or make effective regulations. The noble Baroness also talked about “Trixie” mirrors; these mirrors are placed on traffic signal posts and help HGV drivers to see cyclists on their near side in the blind spot at signalised junctions. The department provided approval to TfL to extend the use of these mirrors across the cycle superhighway network, and it will consider further requests for “Trixie” mirrors by other authorities. Unfortunately, I was not aware of the situation in Paris.
Lord Berkeley
My Lords, is the noble Earl aware that in the present mayor’s time in office accidents have actually increased? It is thought that he has increased the free-flowing of cars and lorries through the junctions, and reduced the time for pedestrians and cyclists to go across. He has also reduced the amount of space on the road for cycle lanes, and things like that—in spite of bringing in the new “Boris bikes”, which of course we all welcome. Could that be looked at? Do the Government think that the idea of a £200 million fund from the Campaign for Better Transport in London to help cycling facilities would help to reduce deaths?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, it is true that, in 2011, 12 out of the 16 cyclist fatalities in London involved a goods vehicle, with seven involving construction vehicles, but it is too early to see whether there are any undesirable trends. Both Transport for London and my department will study these matters very carefully indeed.
Lord Mackenzie of Framwellgate
Will the Minister indicate what proportion of these accidents are caused by people jumping the red lights, as the noble Baroness, Lady Gardner, suggested, and what the Government are doing to encourage the police to enforce the provision?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the last point is the important one. It is an operational matter for the police how they enforce the law. Clearly, the mayor and other authorities will look closely at the police’s performance in driving down road traffic casualties generally, but in particular those of cyclists, because they are vulnerable road users.
Lord Bradshaw
My Lords, the “Trixie” mirrors to which the noble Baroness, Lady Gardner of Parkes, referred, have to be fitted on traffic signals and have to receive the assent of the Department of Transport under present regulations. Most authorities that wanted to use them would have to submit a form to the department for the Secretary of State or his representative to sign. Would the Minister look at that bureaucracy? He mentioned that the Government were re-examining the regulations with a view to improving them by 2014, but I do not think that comes under the definition of “soon” that we heard on an earlier Question.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Lord makes an important point about the need for the department to approve traffic signs. It is important that the traffic signs are consistent right across the United Kingdom to avoid a plethora of different designs of traffic signal, which would be very confusing to motorists.
Lord Young of Norwood Green
My Lords, does the Minister agree that, without trying to lay blame on cyclists or lorry drivers, we want to promote safer cycling and a greater awareness among lorry drivers? I venture to suggest that the problem is not just in London, although I cycle practically every day so I am aware of it. For the Minister’s benefit, I can say that the Paris experiment is about allowing cyclists to go through red lights where the situation is safe, so that will be interesting. Finally, could he give us any information on the number of accidents where wearing a cycle helmet would have improved the chances of a fatality not occurring?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the Government encourage the use of cycle helmets but we think it undesirable, as did the previous Administration, to make them compulsory because this could have the unintended effect of reducing cycling despite its undoubted health benefits. On the question of turning left, my noble friend Lord Spicer has an Oral Question about left turns coming up shortly. As part of my research on that, I have just had a working lunch with the chief examiner of the Institute of Advanced Motorists.
Lord Cormack
My Lords, would the roads of London not be less congested and safer for cyclists, and indeed for us all, if there were restrictions on the hours in which delivery vehicles could operate?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Lord has asked a slightly wider question. There is a freight operator recognition scheme—FORS, a membership scheme—that aims to improve freight delivery in London. It is free, voluntary and open to any company operating vans or lorries in the capital. It has been developed by TfL and is a reward and recognition scheme with the aim of improving safety and operational efficiency.
People Trafficking
Earl Attlee Excerpts(13 years ago)
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Earl Attlee
My Lords, I congratulate the noble and right reverend Lord, Lord Eames, on securing a debate on this important matter and I thank him for raising it today with his usual skill and measured tone. I broadly accept your Lordships’ analysis of the situation. The Government certainly share the noble and right reverend Lord’s forcefully put view that human trafficking is a horrendous crime that needs to be addressed in a systematic and co-ordinated way. Right at the top of that process is my right honourable friend the Home Secretary, and I can assure noble Lords that she takes this matter very seriously.
As noble Lords have rightly observed, estimating the numbers of adults and children trafficked into and within the UK is difficult owing to the hidden nature of this criminal activity, but through the national referral mechanism we are starting to gain some valuable data about the scale of the problem. We know how many victims are referred. What we do not know is how many trafficking operations were successfully deterred or disrupted by the policies of this Government and the previous Government. However, for those victims we do indentify, our systems are now much more able to support them, according to their individual needs. I do not accept that Ministers underestimate the scale of the problem just because we cannot accurately measure it.
In answer to the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Derby, I agree that this is a moral issue. I am sure that Ministers would still not be happy even if we had reduced the numbers to only 100 people being trafficked. We would not stop until we could get it to almost zero. I assure the House that this Government continue to use all resources at their disposal to identify, prosecute and convict traffickers, often working with other countries to bring the perpetrators of this crime to justice.
The noble Baroness, Lady Goudie, talked about the problem of forced labour within the UK. I can assure her that the Government are well aware of that problem.
We continue to review our approach to trafficking to ensure that we remain one step ahead of those seeking to exploit our borders. My noble friend Lady Jenkin raised the problem of men being trafficked out of the UK to places such as foreign construction sites. I was not personally aware of this but I will discuss it with my officials afterwards.
Free movement between the UK and the Republic of Ireland continues to be of immense importance to the economic, social and cultural well-being of both countries. I can assure noble Lords that the UK and Irish Governments are working in partnership to prevent abuse of the common travel area by strengthening its external border while preserving the right of free movement within it for those who are lawfully present. That is enforced by the UK Border Agency and the police carrying out intelligence-led operations to target the potential abuse of the CTA and to identify those who would otherwise seek to avoid UK controls.
Many noble Lords have expressed concerns about the vulnerability of children seeking to travel on Eurostar. Children and any accompanying adults looking to travel to the UK by Eurostar are routinely interviewed at our juxtaposed controls in France and Belgium. Officers seek to establish the relationship between children and the adults who are accompanying them or meeting them on arrival in the UK before allowing them to leave the juxtaposed border control. If trafficking is suspected, they are immediately reported to the appropriate French or Belgian authorities.
The UK Border Agency closely monitors all trains arriving from Brussels and Lille and carries out detailed checks on passengers where it is suspected that a passenger has evaded the juxtaposed controls. Full ticket controls are routinely mounted at St Pancras, Ebbsfleet and Ashford upon notification of a potential passenger who is seeking to arrive in the UK with a ticket to Lille. To supplement this, multi-agency child safeguarding periodic monitoring exercises advised by Paladin are also conducted at St Pancras. We are currently working closely with our Belgian counterparts and Eurostar to resolve the underlying issues.
My noble friend Lady Doocey raised the problem of unaccompanied children. The travel documentation and letter of consent for all unaccompanied children on Eurostar services are examined by border force officers at the controls. It is important to understand that the form signed by the parent or guardian is not designed to be a reliable check in itself; rather, it is the starting point for any inquiries that might be made by the authorities as they see fit. My noble friend also asked me to give undertakings as regards this being an operational matter for Eurostar. Officers regularly contact the parents or guardians of unaccompanied children to verify the letter of consent for travel to the UK. If there is any cause for concern on the authenticity of the consent of the parent or guardian or about the reception arrangements in the UK, officers will interview the parent or guardian. If doubts persist after all appropriate checks have been undertaken, the UK Border Agency may prevent the child travelling to the UK unaccompanied. For those children who do travel, staff at St Pancras identify unaccompanied children as they disembark and escort them to the concourse to ensure that the sponsor is present and is known to the child.
However, in my capacity as government spokesman for DfT matters in your Lordships' House, I have asked my officials to seek a visit by me to Eurostar at St Pancras. I would expect to include an examination of British Transport Police operations in that visit. I am sure that as a high-profile and responsible operator, Eurostar will be keen to show me first hand how it deals with the problems which my noble friend has identified.
Many noble Lords, including the noble Baroness, Lady Massey of Darwen, and the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, are concerned that we might not be compliant with the EU directive because we do not appear to have a national rapporteur. However, the UK is already compliant with this measure through equivalent mechanisms in the form of the UK Human Trafficking Centre as the central repository for data and the interdepartmental ministerial group for oversight. I believe that this meets the need identified by the noble Earl, Lord Sandwich. This equivalent mechanism is broadly in line with practice among our EU neighbours. We are aware of only two countries within the EU that have an independent national rapporteur on human trafficking—the Netherlands and Finland—and I am not convinced that they each operate in the same way. Several noble Lords have referred to the interdepartmental ministerial group. We recognise the need to work across government and we will consider how to strengthen the group to fulfil the national rapporteur role in the coming months. It is important to understand that the EU directive on national rapporteurs requires a national rapporteur or equivalent mechanism to assess trends in human trafficking and activities on anti-trafficking, and to work with civil society organisations and to report. It does not require the role to be independent.
Responsibility for the care, protection and accommodation of child trafficking victims falls within the designated responsibilities of local authorities for safeguarding and promoting the welfare of all children under the provisions of the 1989 and 2004 Children Acts. To support local authorities, we recently revised practice guidance on safeguarding trafficked children with the Department for Education, which will aid practitioners in identification and safeguarding of child victims of this horrible crime. Once a child is placed in care, a care plan is drawn up by their allocated social worker bringing together a range of information and support. The social worker will assess suitable accommodation, educational support and other services based on need. This care plan is regularly reviewed by an independent reviewing officer to ensure that the child’s needs are being met. This will include stability, safety and emotional well-being. IROs are also able to assist the child in obtaining legal advice. My noble friend Lord McColl of Dulwich talked about his important amendments to the Protection of Freedoms Bill. I am sure that my noble friend Lord Henley is looking forward to responding in due course. New guidance for IROs makes it clear that every child has the right to be supported by an advocate. The advocate must accurately represent the child’s wishes and feelings, irrespective of personal views on the child’s best interests.
Another key area is that of missing trafficked children, a point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, among others. Your Lordships should not underestimate the progress the Government have made on this. The first CEOP scoping report on this issue, published in 2007, found a shocking 55 per cent of trafficked children missing from their care placement, but with effective work at a local level to tackle this issue, the most recent CEOP strategic assessment showed that this figure had been reduced to 18 per cent. Local authorities such as Hillingdon, Hertfordshire and Harrow are leading the way with proactive, multi-agency partnerships to identify and safeguard trafficked children from going missing from care. Simple changes to the way they handle, for instance, a child’s access to accommodation front doors, mobile phones and other issues have allowed them to make great progress in reducing the number of children going missing. The national picture is still not good enough but the figures are undeniably heading in the right direction. The new human trafficking strategy commits us to working to raise awareness of these issues locally to ensure in all areas where there is evidence that a child has been trafficked, care planning and activities to support the child must minimise the risk of traffickers reinvolving the child in exploitative activities.
As usual, where I have not been able to respond fully to noble Lords’ substantive points, I will, of course, write. In summary, I can assure the House that this Government will lead the fight with our partners at all levels to ensure that our response to this crime remains an effective deterrent to drive down the number and level of people affected.
Lord Rosser
As the Minister is closing his comments, in the light of what he said about the Government’s determination to fight human trafficking—I am sure that is the case—is it the Government’s view that sentences for human trafficking are appropriate, bearing in mind that the average determinate custodial sentence for drug trafficking appears to be some 50 per cent higher than that for human trafficking?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, that is a detailed question on which I shall have to write to the noble Lord. An interesting problem is that it can be very difficult to secure prosecutions for trafficking. Often we see criminals being prosecuted for offences other than trafficking because it is easier to secure the evidence. I neglected to answer the question asked by the noble Lord, Lord Bew, about a possible gap in the legislation in Northern Ireland. I can assure him that we have not revoked anything and that there will be no gaps.
Baroness Butler-Sloss
Before the noble Earl sits down, I hope that I may ask one question. I do not have a copy of the directive with me in the Chamber but my recollection—it may be wrong—is that the national rapporteur or equivalent mechanism is required to be independent. Perhaps the noble Earl will check that.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I received inspiration from the Box, saying that that was not a requirement. If I am wrong about that, I will, of course, write to noble Lords. However, the key point is that we are in line with what other European states are doing.
Baroness Doocey
I am very pleased that the Minister will visit Eurostar. I am sure he will find that he is knocking at an open door. Will he also agree to speak to the specialist agencies concerned with child trafficking that work at St Pancras and the Paladin team as I think he might get a slightly different view of the situation regarding the border controls and how the whole thing operates than he has given us today?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I am sure that interested organisations will read this debate in Hansard. If they want to send me the right questions to ask interested parties, I will take careful note of them.
Baroness Goudie
Will the Government consider fining Eurostar for letting in trafficked people, as happens with airlines?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I think the noble Baroness is referring to the controls imposed on airlines where the passenger does not have the correct document. I am confident that Eurostar will not willingly allow someone to be trafficked. However, we need to understand that this is an activity of those involved in organised crime who are extremely skilful at achieving their ends.
Motion to Adjourn
Rail: Great Western Passenger Franchise
Earl Attlee Excerpts(13 years ago)
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Lord Berkeley
To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they will ensure that the new Great Western passenger franchise provides the capacity and service quality to meet the expected growth in passenger numbers.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, on 22 December, the Department for Transport launched a consultation on the new Great Western franchise. The consultation document contains the Government’s objectives for the new franchise. These include: providing appropriate capacity for passenger services that is both affordable and delivers value for money for the taxpayer within defined infrastructure and rolling stock constraints on the Great Western network; and ensuring that the overall passenger experience improves throughout the life of the franchise.
Lord Berkeley
I am grateful to the noble Earl for that Answer. I have read the document to which he referred and good things are certainly said about the problem of overcrowding. However, he will be aware that according to government statistics eight of the 10 most crowded trains are on First Great Western, and there have been serious overcrowding problems at Bristol and in Cornwall. Given that there will be a long franchise and that the number of passengers may greatly increase, how will the Government incentivise the successful franchisee to run more coaches or trains so that it does not have to go to the Treasury begging for more money?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I entirely agree with the noble Lord on his analysis of the overcrowding problems on the current franchise. He will be aware that the difficulty with the current franchise is that it does not incentivise the operator to increase capacity. However, there will be significant capacity increases, especially with the introduction of the IEP train.
Lord Touhig
My Lords, will the successful bidder for the franchise be required to provide new rolling stock? As a regular user of the service, I can testify to delayed and cancelled trains because of mechanical failure, sweltering or freezing carriages because air conditioning does not work, lavatories blocked or flooded, and on one train that I travelled on recently the brakes seized and part of the train had to be evacuated because of appalling fumes that filled the carriages. The one redeeming feature of the present operator is that it has excellent on-train staff, who have a difficult job working for a company that for many of us is still known as “Late Western”.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the bidders are able to take into account the condition of the rolling stock when they bid, with the exception of the IEP rolling stock, which they have to adopt. We need to avoid telling the bidders which rolling stock they have to use because otherwise that would compromise their negotiations with the ROSCOs.
Lord Snape
My Lords, will the Minister consider something revolutionary so far as this and other franchises are concerned? The franchisee should set the fares, tackle overcrowding and run a proper financial risk for the length of the franchise; under the present system, the Government set the fares, the leasing companies own the trains and, if anything goes wrong, the so-called franchisee hands in the keys and the taxpayer picks up the Bill. Does he agree that, whatever system we have at the moment for running trains, franchising it certainly ain’t?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I hope that the noble Lord contributes to the consultation, because he makes some valid points.
Lord Bradshaw
My Lords, will the Minister address his mind to the fact that, on many of the franchises throughout the kingdom, the carriages in use are full to overflowing, but the Department for Transport holds the trump card in the acquisition of new rolling stock, because it has to give permission before that can be done? Under the new franchise, does he envisage that whoever wins it or other franchises will have reasonable freedom to negotiate, without the dead hand of the department?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the reason why it is necessary for the department to have the final say is so that it could take over the franchise and run the rolling stock. The noble Lord, Lord Snape, talked about the franchisee handing in the keys. Franchisees might want to do that if they negotiated a rolling stock agreement that had a balloon payment right at the end. Obviously, the department would refuse that. We are very keen that bidders are able to negotiate freely with the rolling stock companies, with the exception of the IEP, on this franchise.
Lord Wigley
My Lords, will the electrification proposals have an adverse temporary effect on capacity on the lines? In that context, will the Minister give an assurance that the Government will still consider electrification of the Great Western line through to Swansea?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, on the noble Lord's first point, he is absolutely right that there will be disruption on services from Paddington due to the electrification, but it is obviously worth doing. On the wider point about electrification from Cardiff to Swansea, we shall have to wait to see.
Lord Rosser
My Lords, an issue raised by train operators is that, as the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, said, if they want to increase rolling stock capacity to meet extra demand, they have to secure the approval of the Department for Transport either to use existing rolling stock more intensively or to lease additional rolling stock from the leasing companies. The approval of the Department for Transport is also required before train operators can speed up scheduled services following improvements to the infrastructure. Will the Government make provision in the new Great Western passenger franchise and in existing and other new franchises to enable the train operator to make such changes in future, subject to the other terms of the franchise remaining the same, without having to go through the, at times, time-consuming and lengthy procedure for obtaining prior approval from the Department for Transport?
Earl Attlee
I think that the noble Lord broadly describes some of the difficulties of franchising. We will have to see what the result of the consultation is.
Baroness O'Cathain
My Lords, in view of the disconnect that seems to exist between the passenger experience and the views of the Department for Transport, would it not be a good idea if the 50 most senior members of the Department for Transport had it within their remit that they have to travel on the “Late Western” line at least once a month?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I do not think that would be a practical requirement. However, one objective of this franchising round is to ensure that the overall passenger experience improves throughout the lifetime of the franchise.
Parliament Square (Management) Bill [HL]
Earl Attlee Excerpts(13 years ago)
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Earl Attlee
My Lords, I thank my noble friend Lord Marlesford for tabling his amendment and enabling a little more debate on this topic. I have been looking forward to it all week. The management of Parliament Square is an issue to which I know he and many of your Lordships attach considerable importance, although hitherto I have only commented in private. My noble friend Lord Campbell of Alloway will understand that I shall confine myself to the merits of the amendment, and my noble friend Lord Elton raised other issues.
The Government are committed to restoring rights to non-violent protest. The Government are also committed to ensuring that everyone can enjoy our public spaces and do not consider it acceptable for people to camp on Parliament Square. I am sure that this view is shared by the majority of people in the United Kingdom. I therefore recognise my noble friend’s intentions in bringing forward this Bill and the Government share his desire to see the square cleared to enable its use by the wider public, including protesters.
On the specific amendment, I understand my noble friend’s concern in relation to the storage box structures on Parliament Square which are also used to display protest messages. I would, however, consider that these structures are already captured by Clause 2(2)(b) of the Bill as their function as storage boxes means that they should be captured in the definition of a,
“structure that is designed, or adapted, (solely or mainly) for the purpose of facilitating the sleeping or staying in a place for any period”.
However, my noble friend is a skilled and experienced parliamentarian. I fully understand why he has tabled his amendment and I cannot imagine him leaving a loophole in his original drafting. In relation to hand-held placards, the Government consider that these can be used to facilitate the right to effective peaceful protest and it would not be appropriate to ban their use on Parliament Square. However, if they are left overnight, then they would constitute litter that would be cleared away by the appropriate authority.
As my noble friend is aware, the Government brought forward provisions in the Police Reform and Social Responsibility Act to enable tents and other structures, such as those outlined in the Bill, to be removed. The Government commenced these provisions on 19 December 2011 and we consider them a proportionate means by which to manage the disruption caused by the encampment. I am convinced that the Act is properly drafted. On 16 January 2012, the Metropolitan Police Service led an operation to enforce the provisions and remove the encampment in so far as possible given the High Court injunction that is in place in relation to one of the protester’s sites pending a judicial review hearing, as observed by my noble friend. He has by implication made it clear that he does not expect me to comment on the proceedings.
The Government agree with my noble friend that it is necessary for all enforcement agencies to work closely together if Parliament Square is going to be managed in a way that promotes its enjoyment and use by all. That is why we have worked with the Greater London Authority, Westminster City Council and the Metropolitan Police Service to ensure that effective enforcement protocols for the PRSR Act provisions are in place.
Once again, I thank my noble friend for moving his amendment and I hope that he is reassured by the provisions the Government already have in place through the PRSR Act.
Lord Marlesford
My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords who have kindly spoken on this amendment. It sounds to me as though people are reasonably happy that the amendment should be included in the Bill.
Transport Infrastructure: North-east England
Earl Attlee Excerpts(13 years ago)
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Lord Walton of Detchant
To ask Her Majesty’s Government whether they considered including in the Chancellor of the Exchequer’s autumn Statement funding for transport infrastructure projects in north-east England in addition to the proposed upgrade of the Tyne and Wear Metro; and, in particular, whether they considered funding improvements to the A1 trunk road.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the Government announced a range of transport proposals in the Chancellor’s autumn Statement on 29 November 2011 for accelerated delivery in this spending review period. Those proposals were selected because they can be accelerated to start construction and make significant progress in the next three years, therefore making the earliest possible contribution to stimulating economic growth.
Lord Walton of Detchant
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that reply. Is he aware that almost 20 years ago, in response to questions from myself and the late Lord Jenkins of Hillhead, the then Conservative Minister in this House—the noble Earl, Lord Caithness—made a commitment on behalf of the Government that the whole of the A1 between Newcastle and Edinburgh would ultimately be dual? Is the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, aware that two schemes were in an advanced state of preparation in Northumberland to begin in 2009 but, when the previous Government downgraded that road to one of regional importance, they were postponed? Now that the coalition has upgraded the road to national importance, is it not time that these delayed schemes should be embarked upon and expedited?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Lord is correct in his description of the history of this project. The interim Regional Transport Board for the North East recommended to the Government in 2006 that proposals for the A1 Adderstone to Belford and Al Morpeth to Felton schemes were not funding priorities for the period up to 2016. The department therefore did not have a scheme to consider for the autumn Statement. However, it is good news that the Government have decided that that section of road is of national importance.
Lord Cormack
My Lords, as we rightly attach so much importance to the United Kingdom and its preservation, is there not an unanswerable case for making the high road to Scotland, and indeed the high road to England, a fully dual-carriageway road of national importance?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I thought that someone would ask me a devolution question. There are very good road connections from the highly developed conurbation on Tyneside—Newcastle upon Tyne and Gateshead—but that is via the M6 corridor up through Carlisle. The journey time by car is shorter via Carlisle than it is via Berwick-upon-Tweed.
Baroness Maddock
My Lords, given that Northumberland is a more dangerous place to drive in than London according to figures released by the BBC on 19 January—32 deaths per 10 million hours of driving, compared with 23 in London—will the Government prioritise the value of road safety in transport appraisal calculations? Also, given that single-carriageway A roads like the A1 in Northumberland have the most serious accidents, does that not strengthen the case for dualling particularly dangerous parts of the A1 such as the Mousen bends, especially as that scheme is ready to go?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, first of all, the schemes on the A1 north of Morpeth are not ready to go, because they have been abandoned since 2006. However, my noble friend is absolutely right when she describes the dangers of a single carriageway, and I asked my officials precisely those questions. Interestingly, though, the accident rate for this section of the A1 was 154 per billion vehicle miles. This compares with 306 accidents per billion vehicle miles on all rural A-class roads within England. The rate for the A1, therefore, is approximately half that for rural A-class roads nationally.
Lord Davies of Oldham
My Lords, the Minister will appreciate that very significant improvements were effected to the A1 south of Newcastle with the removal of some dangerous right-hand turns and roundabouts and effective control of traffic. All these improvements, however, are a considerable way south of Northumbria and Newcastle. Is there not a case for appreciating that the A1 now does need attention to the points further north, and that in fact he should look at that scheme further?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I re-emphasise that there is not a scheme at present that we can look at. The previous Administration also found, when they carefully analysed the situation, that there was not a business case for spending £10 per man, woman and child to dual all the way from Morpeth to Berwick-upon-Tweed.
Lord Geddes
My Lords, in relation to the Minister’s reply to my noble friend Lord Cormack, could I ask the Minister when he last tried to drive from Newcastle to Carlisle and thence to Scotland? I think he will find that it took a very long time indeed.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I did the best research I possibly could on behalf of your Lordships, but I confess that I did not actually drive the route. I did look on the map and I used the excellent AA Route Planner to see what the difference in time for the two would be, whether I went on the M6 or on the single-carriageway A1.
Lord Brooke of Sutton Mandeville
My Lords, given that we have run out of questions before time, may I congratulate my noble friend on the comprehensiveness of his replies?
Earl Attlee
When my noble friend got to his feet, I thought, “Oh no, he is going to ask me one of those tricky questions to which I will have to agree to write”. On this occasion I shall just thank the noble Lord for his question.
Aviation: UK Civil Aviation
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Earl Attlee
My Lords, I start by congratulating the noble Baroness, Lady Gibson, on securing this evening’s debate, in which we have heard articulated wildly opposing views. As all noble Lords know, aviation makes a huge contribution to our economy and our society as a trading nation, as pointed out by the noble Baroness. It generates economic output of up to £9 billion a year. The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, suggested that it was £11 billion; I do not know which of us is right. It supports thousands of jobs, drives our tourism sector and gives British businesses a vital gateway to the global marketplace. If this country is to grow and prosper in the future, aviation must be able to grow and prosper. I think all noble Lords are agreed on that.
Aviation provides regular connections not only to today’s major world economies but to the emerging economies. However, we recognise that there is a price to pay for every flight—a price that is measured in noise, local air pollution and carbon. To continue enjoying the benefits of a growing aviation sector, we need to make sure that growth is sustainable. That is exactly why the Government are developing a new sustainable aviation strategy. However, in answer to the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, we cannot do this overnight. From the very start, the Government made clear that unsustainable aviation growth was unacceptable. We have maxed out on what the people surrounding Heathrow Airport can tolerate.
Instead, we have been working hard to make our airports more effective. We have a range of initiatives under way to deliver that ambition. For example, last week the Civil Aviation Bill was introduced to Parliament. This will give the CAA more flexible powers to respond to passenger issues and better target issues such as airport resilience. Our South East Airports Task Force, which was set up to improve operations at major airports, has explored measures for improving punctuality, tackling delay and strengthening resilience at Heathrow, which are being trialled. It has also endorsed plans to improve the current aviation security regime, on which we have consulted and are developing. We are also looking at how we can tackle delays and reduce the need for aircraft stacking through the CAA’s Future Airspace Strategy and the Single European Sky.
As well as these initiatives, we still need to address the bigger question over future demand and future connectivity. The National Infrastructure Plan we published last year was clear that we must maintain the status of the UK as an international hub for aviation. We recognise that it is vital to maintain the UK’s connectivity to improve our links to the emerging economies and promote inward investment and inbound tourism. That is why we are planning to launch a call for evidence on options for maintaining the UK’s hub status alongside our draft framework. Through this we aim to reach an evidence-based conclusion on how to meet the UK’s long-term connectivity needs. The noble Baroness called for rapid and firm decisions. However, the Government will consider these matters very carefully and make the right decisions, not necessarily rapid ones.
In the shorter term, we welcome the recent launch of new routes from Gatwick to Ho Chi Minh City and Hanoi, and the announcement that Air China will launch a Gatwick-Beijing route. These are the sort of global connections that British businesses need, and not just from London. We know how crucial our regional airports are in helping to balance growth across the country and to relieve crowding, where possible, at our south-east airports. We also recognise the importance of connecting the regions to London by air and rail to maximise the benefits.
To make this growth sustainable, we need to find new ways to decarbonise aviation. We will work with the industry to boost investment in and research into low-carbon technologies and fuels. For example, we welcome the research that countries such as the US have done in the use of algae-based sustainable fuels. Developing innovative fuel sources will be the key to enabling aviation to grow in a sustainable and successful way. We want to see Britain at the forefront of delivering greener air travel. The inclusion of aviation in the European emissions trading system from 1 January was an important step. Now we need to push for international agreement in ICAO on aviation emissions to get the level playing field that will ensure that aviation is able to grow globally in a balanced and fair way.
The noble Baroness, Lady Gibson, urged the Government to reconsider the issue of aviation taxation. The Government accept that the current economic climate is very challenging both for consumers and the aviation sector. However, if the Government are to meet their overall fiscal projections, we must balance the risk of growing competition from abroad with the Government’s need to raise revenues from the sector. The rise in APD rates announced in the Autumn Statement does no more than keep pace with inflation and will give certainty to the industry for the two-year period to 2013. It is also worth remembering that it is important to look at the country’s taxation as a whole. Unlike other countries in the EU, the UK charges no VAT on flights. My noble friend Lady Kramer talked about the favourable taxation status of the aviation industry.
We continue to believe that tackling climate change is one of the most important challenges we face and that all sectors, including aviation, should contribute globally to the 2 degrees Celsius goal. The Government continue to support emissions trading as one of the key instruments for reducing CO2 emissions from aviation.
Many noble Lords talked about the proposal for a Thames estuary airport. We are interested in innovative proposals for maintaining the UK’s aviation hub status and we will consider all proposals submitted that meet the criteria set out in our call for evidence. A new airport in the Thames estuary is one idea that has been put forward in response to our recent scoping exercise, but we need a much more detailed level of evidence, in particular on costs, funding and wider impacts, before we are in a position to develop which approach the Government should support. That is why we need the call for evidence.
Lord Lea of Crondall
I am most grateful to the Minister for giving way, but I take it that he is not going to leave this point before answering the question: how can he possibly justify a review of the hub in Britain while excluding Heathrow? Is that not rather like, as someone said, reviewing the expansion of supermarkets without including Tesco?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, first, I have explained that we have already maxed out on what the local people around Heathrow can tolerate.
Earl Attlee
Secondly, this Government have an open mind, which is the right way to go into a consultation. The noble Baroness, Lady McIntosh of Hudnall, effectively asked whether we are going to do a U-turn on Stansted. The commitment in the coalition agreement still stands.
Lord Rosser
In the light of what he said about the Government having an open mind, will the noble Earl confirm that the previous government statements about no new runways at any of the three largest airports in London and the south-east no longer stand?
Earl Attlee
Definitely not, my Lords. The noble Lords knows perfectly well that that is in the coalition agreement and will stay.
The noble Lord, Lord Monks, asked me what more can be done to support industry and its people. The Government recognise the value that the aviation industry brings through supporting a network of highly skilled workers that adds value to the economy. The sector is at the forefront of technological progress, delivering R&D projects and large-scale investments that drive industry and the economy forwards. It is important that the trade union sector fully engages in the consultation process. The noble Lord also touched on the important issue of pilot fatigue. On the matter of flight-time limitations, we will support the proposed requirements only if the Civil Aviation Authority determines that they provide an appropriate level of protection against crew fatigue.
The noble Lord, Lord Soley, touched on the 76,000 employees at Heathrow, plus those in related service industries. We have to take their position into consideration as well. The noble Lord also talked about biofuels. The Government are clear that sustainable biofuels have a role to play in reducing CO2 emissions from transport, particularly in sectors such as aviation where there are limited alternatives to fossil fuels. In recent years, the aviation industry has conducted research and carried out flight tests to help provide information on different fuels. This work has demonstrated that biofuels for aviation are technically feasible. However, there are currently a range of barriers to introducing biofuels, including sustainability, scalability of the feed stocks and commercial viability. The Government will continue to work with European partners, the wider international community and industry to explore how to bring about a significant increase in the use of biofuels in aviation. Advanced biofuels, such as those derived from algae, when commercialised, could offer particular advantages, such as reduced land use impact.
On UK connectivity with China, the Government recognise the importance of developing and maintaining good links between the UK and emerging economies. That is why this March we are calling for evidence on options for maintaining the UK's hub status. Heathrow currently has fewer scheduled flights to mainland China than Paris or Frankfurt, but more than Amsterdam. However, if flights from Heathrow to Hong Kong are included, there are more flights from Heathrow to China than from any other EU hub. Hong Kong serves around 45 destinations on the Chinese mainland.
The noble Lord, Lord Empey, raised the issue of connectivity with the regions, particularly Northern Ireland. The Government recognise the vital contribution that air connections make to regional economies and acknowledge Northern Ireland's concerns about the air service between Northern Ireland and Heathrow should BMI be sold to British Airways. However, airlines operate in a competitive commercial environment, and it is for individual airlines to determine the routes that they operate. The options for supporting regional air services to London are limited. Member states can impose public service obligations to protect air services to remote airports, which could permit slots to be ring-fenced. However, they can be imposed only between specific cities, not specific airports, a difficulty identified by the noble Lord, Lord Empey. We have written to the EU Commission on that point, but there is no other mechanism for the Government to intervene in the allocation of slots at UK airports. The noble Lord introduced the Airports (Amendment) Bill, which would provide for the protection of air services between Heathrow and the UK regions. The Government are considering in detail the measures included in the Bill.
The noble Lord, Lord Lea, got quite excited about a number of points. Although we are committed to not authorising additional runways at Heathrow, Gatwick and Stansted, we are looking at our aviation policy framework with an open mind. The aviation industry is vital to our country. Our next step is to publish the draft aviation strategy and call in March for evidence on hub connectivity. With that strategy, we want to move away from the polarised opinions that have dominated discussion in the past and develop a broader consensus for change.
Baroness Dean of Thornton-le-Fylde
I will detain the Minister for only a short time. Can he answer my question? Will the consultation document contain the Government's proposals for dealing with the short and medium-term issues on capacity?
Earl Attlee
I will have to write to the noble Baroness on that detail.
With the strategy, we want to move away from the polarised opinions that have dominated discussion in the past and develop a broader consensus for change, one that recognises aviation’s integral role in generating growth and jobs, in providing the global connections on which businesses rely, but also acknowledges the real need to address the impact of flights on local communities and on climate change, a consensus that supports both a flourishing and responsible UK air transport industry.
Railways: Train Design
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Lord Bradshaw
To ask Her Majesty’s Government, following the recent award to Bombardier of the contract for 130 new carriages, what further plans they have for maintaining train design or manufacturing capacity in the United Kingdom.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, we believe that in most cases the procurement of rolling stock should be led by the rail industry, but in cases where the Government are involved we will take on board the conclusions of the Government’s recent review of procurement to give suppliers confidence to invest in their capability to meet future demand by publishing pipelines of future government needs and taking action to remove barriers to growth.
Lord Bradshaw
The announcement of the new train order to Bombardier took place 1,000 days after the last order was placed. There is no doubt that the Government are deeply involved because the short term of franchises means that no rolling stock company can get its money back in the duration of the franchise. The Answer that I have been given is quite disingenuous. I really want some assurance that British industry will be supported. It has only 100 days work from this new order and it is time that something was done to extend that period.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, noble Lords will know that this Government have made considerable investment in the rail industry and will continue to do so. Noble Lords should also be aware that there is considerable refurbishment work available on the existing rolling stock in order to make it compliant with new accessibility requirements.
Lord Berkeley
My Lords, is the Minister aware that his first Answer to the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, demonstrates the inconsistency or lack of policy not only on who procures rolling stock but on who operates it and how many coaches there are? The OJEU notice on the First Great Western new franchise says in one paragraph that,
“the franchise operator will be expected to take responsibility for the provision of rolling stock”,
yet immediately follows that by saying that it will supply the IEP—the intercity train programme. How can any manufacturer or operator plan on such an inconsistent policy?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Lord will be aware that the IEP is in principle a bi-mode—electric and diesel—rolling stock project and is designed to run across several franchises. Central government therefore has to have an involvement. In general, it is a matter for the rail industry to procure rolling stock. However, central government has to ensure that the rolling stock contract is sustainable in case, as the operator of last resort, it has to step in and run the franchise.
Lord Glenarthur
My Lords, my noble friend will be aware that the Treasury and the Scottish Government announced recently that they would each put £50 million into the refurbishment of Caledonian railway sleepers, which many of us are delighted about, particularly if we use them twice a week as I do. Will the new franchise agreement, which I think will follow in 2014, also enable the train operating company—whoever takes on that franchise or continues with it now—to get good value for any commensurate investment that it might make in parallel to provide a really superb service?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Lord has strayed a little from the Question, but I am confident that there is good news and I will write to him with further details.
Lord Davies of Oldham
My Lords, the House will recognise that the Government have had a somewhat torrid time with the carriage supply since the Siemens contract. However, would the Government take a constructive approach in these terms: can we not reduce the number of designs of carriages in order that suppliers work to a much more restricted form of contract and thereby provide much more cheaply the carriages that we all know we need?
Earl Attlee
On the noble Lord’s first point about the Siemens contract, he will understand that we operated the procurement process set up by the previous Administration. We look forward to the NAO investigation that will probably take place after the contract award in order not to interfere with the process. The noble Lord’s second point is an extremely good one. We have too many types of rolling stock. One difficulty is that the rolling stock has a 30-year life cycle and it is quite easy to end up with a large number of areas, but the noble Lord is absolutely right.
Lord Roberts of Llandudno
My Lords, does the Minister understand how important it is to place orders early to secure jobs in Bombardier and other places and to have long-term investment? Without that, who will take on apprentices or make a dent in the youth unemployment problem? We need immediate action by the Government to secure these news jobs and new youth employment.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Lord is absolutely right in everything he says; that is why we have the Crossrail project and other large infrastructure projects. The mischief is the feast and famine, which I am sure all policy-makers over many decades have tried to avoid.
Lord West of Spithead
My Lords, a contract has recently been let to move spoil from the Crossrail system. This means moving stuff from central London to the Thames estuary. It will all be done by German ships with German crews. Bearing in mind what the Government intend to do to support British industry, will we be putting measures in place to help British shipping in the same way as the German Government do to support German shipping so that we are working on a level playing field?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I am not aware of the particular issue to which the noble Lord refers. However, we have to be careful not to interfere inappropriately in favour of UK operators, otherwise we could fall foul of all sorts of regulations.
Company Cars
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Lord Sheldon
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they plan to take to limit high mileage by company cars.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the Government recognise that high mileage by company cars may impact the economy and environment. Our policies encourage businesses to consider whether they can reduce their travel and to embrace sustainable transport choices. Some businesses have operational needs that mean that a company car is vital. Motoring taxes such as fuel duty and company car tax can encourage fuel-efficient behaviour and the use of low-carbon vehicles, in addition to supporting the public finances.
Lord Sheldon
I thank the noble Lord for that reply, but is it not clear that mileage is higher for company cars, which are large cars, than for other cars, and is not the greater mileage driven in company cars unacceptably more than the tax liability of the individual?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I do not accept that company cars are necessarily larger than average. It is up to the employer what size car to supply to the employee. The system of company car tax takes into account the retail value of the car plus accessories and the CO2 tailpipe emissions. A heavier car is likely to, but will not necessarily, have higher emissions and therefore higher costs for the employee.
Lord Berkeley
Is there not evidence that company car drivers tend to drive not only far further but faster and less safely than people who own their own cars? Should not the Government look at that?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Lord is right; I asked my officials that precise question. I suspect that the reason why the accident rate is higher with company cars is that company car drivers are working under increased pressure and can be more tired, which is a well known cause of accidents on the strategic road network.
Baroness O'Cathain
My Lords, can my noble friend confirm that many company car drivers use their company cars as offices? If they are sales reps, they cart around stuff that they could not possibly take on and off trains, et cetera, and visit many places that are way out in the sticks. Therefore, they need their cars and have high mileage as a result.
Earl Attlee
My noble friend makes an extremely important point. Many company car users have to use a company car; there is no alternative. I am also confident that the system of company car taxation is progressive and fair.
Lord Razzall
My Lords, does my noble friend agree that, apart from what he said in his last answer about ensuring that large company cars pay the maximum tax feasible, this issue would be better not dealt with by the Government?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I am happy to agree that the Government should not interfere any more than we already do, by the system of company car tax that I have outlined, but I am also confident that bigger and heavier cars pay considerably more in company car tax, not least because an employee who is entitled to a large car will also be paying much higher rates of marginal tax, and company car tax is paid at the marginal rate of tax.
Baroness Gardner of Parkes
My Lords, one of the questioners asked my noble friend about insurance and there being many more accidents. What is the insurance position and is it taken into account in the terms of the taxation? Do people not care so much about accidents because it is not their no-claims bonus that they are losing?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, if a company car driver has an accident, I suspect that it would affect their no-claims bonus because they would have to declare their accident to the insurance company, but I am not absolutely certain on that point.
Lord Davies of Oldham
My Lords, the Minister will be all too well aware—he indicated this in his Answer—that the issue of car emissions is important for the health of our environment. Will he look again, and encourage his colleagues in the Treasury to look again, at whether we are giving sufficient encouragement to companies to provide greener cars for their people than they do at present?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I am confident that with the CO2 emissions regime we already encourage cars to be as green and economical as possible. However, the noble Lord will also be aware that we are encouraging the use of electric vehicles, which are exempt from fuel duty and have numerous other taxation benefits.