Renewable Transport Fuel Obligations (Amendment) Order 2011

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Tuesday 6th December 2011 Lords Chamber

Moved By

[Earl Attlee]

That the draft order laid before the House on 14 November be approved.

Relevant documents: 33rd Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, 44th Report from the Merits Committee, considered in Grand Committee on 5 December.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I beg to move the Motion standing in my name on the Order Paper.

[Lord Bradshaw]

My Lords, before the Motion is put to the House, I should like to draw to the attention of the House the fact that the report of the Merits Committee on this order was published last Thursday. Nine noble Lords then debated the order yesterday in the Moses Room so we all expected that some notice would be taken. This morning the order appeared on the Order Paper and so there has been no opportunity to consider what was said in the Moses Room. This does not reflect well on the House or show that the Government really value the opinions of Peers before they place matters on the Order Paper.

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[Viscount Eccles]

My Lords, I do not often find myself in agreement with the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Oldham, but on this occasion he is about 110 per cent right.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I accept the thrust of what noble Lords are saying. Regrettably this order is on a very tight timescale for a variety of reasons. I would like to make it clear that I very much value what noble Lords are saying. Yesterday, in Grand Committee, the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Oldham, said, at col. GC 160 of the Official Report, that the Opposition support the measure “inadequate” though it is. By using the word “inadequate”, I take it that he meant that the order deals only with sustainability and not the trajectory of biofuel take-up. I did of course deal with that point yesterday, and was very happy to do so.

With regard to the issue of used cooking oil, I recently answered an Oral Question on that and I agreed to write on a number of points. I am not known for speaking at length, but I spent 23 minutes responding to the debate yesterday despite the pleading looks from my noble friend Lady Verma. Relevant letters are nearly ready despite their complexities. My expectation is that I will send out all the letters strictly relevant to the order by the end of the week at the latest and some may well be sent tomorrow. I accept that the timescale is tight, but I think it is better to agree the Motion now rather than go right up to the wire later. I beg to move.

Motion agreed.

Renewable Transport Fuel Obligations (Amendment) Order 2011

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Monday 5th December 2011 Grand Committee

Moved By

[Earl Attlee]

That the Grand Committee do report to the House that it has considered the Renewable Transport Fuel Obligations (Amendment) Order 2011.

Relevant documents: 33rd Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, 44th Report from the Merits Committee

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the draft Renewable Transport Fuel Obligations (Amendment) Order 2011 will give legal effect to changes to an existing scheme that requires suppliers of fossil fuel for road transport to ensure that a proportion of the fuel that they supply comes from renewable sources. This is the renewable transport fuel obligation, or RTFO. The legislation before us is of key importance in our efforts to tackle climate change and will implement the transport elements of the EU renewable energy directive, or RED.

Biofuels are the only alternative to fossil fuel in transport that presently can be delivered on the scale required to meet our immediate environmental challenges. They will play a key role in allowing us to keep within our forthcoming carbon budgets and to meet our European renewable energy targets. However, biofuels are not the silver bullet that some once believed. There remain legitimate concerns about the sustainability of some biofuels. With this in mind, I make it clear that we are not setting out a new trajectory for increased biofuel targets beyond those already set under the current RTFO. The order is about making biofuels more sustainable; it is not about supplying more biofuel.

Given the environmental concerns and the need to consider how best to deploy biofuels across transport sectors, there is no proposal to increase the obligation levels already set under the 2007 order, which requires the level of biofuel to reach 5 per cent by volume of the total fuel used for road transport in the obligation year that starts in April 2013. The target will remain at these levels for subsequent years. This order would place a duty on the Secretary of State for Transport to keep under review the obligated levels set under the 2007 order. It is our intention to consult in 2012 on possible increases to the percentage of biofuel that will have to be supplied in the period 2014 to 2020.

It may be useful for me to provide a brief overview of the current regulatory framework so that the changes we are considering today can be better understood. Suppliers of fossil fuel for road transport have an obligation to supply a small percentage of biofuel alongside the fossil fuel: currently 4 per cent. Suppliers of biofuel are awarded a certificate for each litre of fuel that they supply. The renewable transport fuel certificates—RTFCs—can be traded on the open market. This means that entities supplying biofuels that do not have an obligation to do so may still benefit from helping obligated suppliers to meet their targets as they can sell their certificates to those suppliers that require them to meet their obligation. The buyout mechanism is in place to provide a safety valve that protects both industry and the consumer from spikes in the cost of supplying biofuel. Presently, industry also reports the performance of its biofuels against voluntary sustainability criteria. However, if we pass this order, the UK will reward only sustainable biofuel. This is the key issue today.

This amendment will introduce the mandatory sustainability criteria set out in the RED. This means that for the first time there will be a legal obligation on industry to supply biofuels that demonstrably reduce carbon emissions and can be shown to have been produced from feedstocks whose cultivation did not threaten areas of high biodiversity or damage carbon stocks. Suppliers must therefore be able to prove that their claims of sustainability are true. These sustainability data must be verified to the internationally recognised limited assurance standard by an independent third party before participants in the scheme receive the renewable transport fuel certificates that are used to demonstrate that their obligation to supply sustainable biofuel has been met. If companies continue to supply biofuels that do not meet these environmental standards, those biofuels will count as fossil fuels for the purposes of the RTFO and as such will serve to increase the supplier’s obligation to supply sustainable biofuel accordingly.

Another important driver behind this amendment is to further encourage biofuels made from the most sustainable feedstocks. Fuel made from wastes and residues will be eligible for double counting, receiving twice as many certificates by volume as biofuels made from other sustainable feedstocks. This double counting would also apply to biofuels made from lignocellulosic material and non-food cellulosic material; that is, woody matter as well as stalks and the like left over from agricultural crops.

We remain concerned that there are significant indirect impacts from some biofuels that are not currently addressed by the renewable energy directive. Earlier this year the UK published research on the scale of these impacts and we have written to the European Commission reiterating our belief that this is a pressing issue that must be addressed robustly at a Europe-wide level. As the directive currently stands, it does not take into account these indirect effects. While the extent of these impacts remains uncertain, there is robust evidence that widespread use of some biofuels can lead to significant indirect greenhouse gas emissions through the process known as indirect land use change, or ILUC.

The Government take the issue of ILUC seriously. Earlier this year the Department for Transport published research on the scale of indirect land use change impacts and we are continuing to lead work on how to tackle these, as well as encouraging the European Commission to address this issue on a Europe-wide scale with a robust solution. My honourable friend Norman Baker, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport, has written to the European Commission twice, expressing the Government’s concerns regarding ILUC and pressing for robust and proportionate action to be taken to address the associated impacts.

We have also been consulting on guidance that will help suppliers and others with an interest in this industry to understand better how we take technical decisions in accordance with the order and how they are expected to comply with this legislation. This RTFO guidance will update existing guidance on process, carbon and sustainability reporting, verification and process-related issues for fuel suppliers.

I will now briefly summarise other key changes that would be delivered through this order. It would require suppliers to provide additional sustainability information. It would extend the RTFO so that biofuel suppliers, as well as those supplying fossil fuel for road transport, are obliged to register with the RTFO administrator and report on their biofuels. Small suppliers will still be outside the scope of the obligation in the light of the minimum supply threshold of 450,000 litres per annum, which will continue to apply. It would expand the RTFO so that all liquid and gaseous renewable fuels of biological origin that are for use in road vehicles are eligible for RTFCs.

This approach would enable more renewable fuels such as biomethanol, and partially renewable fuels, to be eligible for reward under the RTFO.

In order to allow maximum flexibility for industry while ensuring that the sustainability criteria are met, we are allowing suppliers to carry over RTFCs from one obligation period into the next, where the fuels associated with these certificates would have met the minimum greenhouse gas requirements in both periods.

This order will remove the duty on the RTFO administrator to report annually to Parliament. This is because the administration of the scheme is now carried out by a central government department rather than by a non-departmental public body, as had previously been the case. It is therefore subject to the usual ministerial oversight of departmental business, rendering additional reporting unnecessary. We are also proposing to amend the suite of civil penalties available to ensure compliance in order to reflect the changes made to other aspects of the order.

The changes before the Committee today are intended to ensure that biofuels used on Britain’s roads deliver real carbon savings and can demonstrate their sustainability. Through double counting, they will also encourage industry to seek out ways of delivering the most sustainable fuels. I therefore commend the order to the Committee. I beg to move.

[Lord Teverson]

I am happy to start, my Lords, as this is a very important area. I will start what I am about to say by showing how important it is. If you are a believer that global warming is one of the greatest challenges to this planet and to mankind, then this order is of particular importance. We often forget that transport accounts for 35 per cent of energy usage within the United Kingdom, so in order to meet our renewable energy targets of 15 per cent in 2020, and our decarbonisation targets of 80 per cent for the economy as a whole up to 2050, we obviously have to succeed in this area. If we do not, then we stand no chance of meeting our other targets. We know, however, that this has been one of the most contentious areas.

Sometimes those of us who get involved in debates about wind farms and nuclear energy think that it is one of the areas where there is most division and angst among Members of the House and the public at large. However, this is one of the areas where we are asking what is and what is not a sustainable biofuel, and whether biofuels are good or bad. As we go on, that division—which seems to have got wider—is of great importance.

We therefore have to make sure that we solve issues in this area. The renewable energy directive requires that we reach 10 per cent by 2020, and on this scale we get to 5 per cent by volume—but that is of course only 3.5 per cent by energy content in terms of that target.

I looked at one of the reports of the Committee on Climate Change. It is useful to remind ourselves as background that in terms of decarbonising this sector, as the Minister said, renewable liquid fuels are pretty well the only option in the short term. What are the alternatives? I note that the Committee on Climate Change is looking for 1.7 million electric or hybrid vehicles by 2020, which will be 16 per cent of all purchases of vehicles by that time. Frankly, we will be very lucky if we get anywhere near that figure, and we are not on the trajectory to achieving the target of having almost completely electric vehicles by 2030.

The other alternatives are hydrogen fuel, which seems to be a long way off, or second-generation biofuels. Since I have been involved in this debate, second-generation biofuels—let alone third-generation ones—have been talked about as if they are around the corner, and yet those debates have been going on for three or maybe five years, and they are still not here. What research and development and real impetus—by Europe, through the framework initiatives, and through our own government-sponsored research— is being put into these second-generation biofuels? Until we move on to those, I do not think that this issue is overly solvable.

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[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, this has been a useful discussion on a subject that generates a wide variety of views. I will try to address some of the key points that have been raised. The number of noble Lords addressing the Committee clearly shows the importance of this order.

The noble Lord, Lord Teverson, asked me if I would agree that not one litre of biofuel should come from the United States. He tempted me but I remind the noble Lord that of course we have the 35 per cent reduction in greenhouse gas emissions test. Although I cannot meet his aspiration, the effect of the order will be very beneficial. The noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, teased me about whether I would invest my own money in a biofuel plant. The Committee will know that I am a classic impoverished earl and I have no money. However, I am convinced that the order, as amended, will provide a good commercial and environmental incentive.

It is recognised that greater assurance of the sustainability of biofuels will help to address some of the uncertainties in this policy area. This improved auditing will simultaneously address a number of concerns about the potentially negative impact of some biofuels, while providing industry and investors with increased reassurance that the instruments to incentivise sustainable biofuels will be in place for the foreseeable future, providing the certainty needed to plan ahead. In response to the noble Lord, Lord Davies of Oldham, we are building on the work of the previous Administration, as I am sure he would accept.

Double rewards for biofuels from wastes and advanced biofuels will replace the 20p duty differential for used cooking oil, or UCO, which will expire at the end of March next year. This will mean that industry has an incentive to explore ways of delivering any of the fuels with the very best sustainability credentials, rather than incentivising it to focus on a single feedstock. This amendment will allow us to meet our EU obligations in this area and is needed to set in law the sustainability criteria required by the renewable energy directive. As an EU obligation, the same criteria will apply in all other European member states.

We recognise that the issue of ILUC is not currently addressed by the RED and are working both within Government and at a European level to ensure that proportionate and robust action is taken to address this. However, I remind noble Lords that this amendment is a continuation of our current trajectory towards increasingly sustainable biofuels. That trajectory was set out following the Gallagher review of biofuels in 2008, which highlighted the potential impact of ILUC and recommended that the rate of increase of the targeted volume of biofuels in place at the time should be reduced. It said that higher targets should only be implemented beyond 2014 if biofuels are shown to be demonstrably sustainable, including avoiding indirect land use change.

I have a number of points to cover in answer to noble Lords. Some touched on fuels other than biofuels; for example, hydrogen and the use of electricity. The Committee will forgive me if I just cover biofuels. A recurring question from many noble Lords was how industry will prove its fuels meet the new criteria. The answer is that independent verifiers will check the claims made by suppliers that recognised voluntary schemes that certify fuels as RED-compliant are in place. Suppliers will need to have the information that they supply to the scheme's administrator independently verified to the internationally recognised standard known as limited assurance. It is expected that many will provide evidence through certification from one of a number of voluntary schemes set up by private organisations and recognised by the European Commission. Verification has taken place since the RTFO was launched in 2008. The schemes involve companies such as Ernst & Young and PricewaterhouseCoopers.

[Viscount Eccles]

Does my noble friend have any information about the cost of verification? It must be enormous if it is being done properly.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I would not imagine that it impacts greatly on pump prices. I will see if inspiration comes to me in due course. However, the cost is in the impact assessment.

The noble Lord, Lord Palmer, asked how we could support UK production. The RTFO seeks to increase biofuel use. We want sustainable biofuels. The RTFO allows sustainable biofuels to count. We cannot exclude biofuels because they come from outside the UK. If we did, we would face competition issues from the WTO and no doubt from the European Commission as well. Also, such anti-competitive behaviour would be against the interests of UK consumers. The key is sustainable feedstock.

[Lord Berkeley]

If we have one of the “big four” accounting firms doing the verification and the material is coming from South America or the Far East, will they go there to check it or will they rely on local certification?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, it is up to the supplier to convince the authorities that their fuel is sustainable.

Many noble Lords asked about advanced biofuels. A number of commercial activities are developing advanced biofuels. BP is involved in a joint venture to develop biobutanol. Double counting of waste-derived biofuels and advanced biofuels will increase the financial incentive to invest in advanced biofuels.

My noble friend Lord Eccles asked number of questions. Many of them are key to the debate, so I will go through them and I hope that the answers will cover many other noble Lords’ concerns. He asked about UK production. The UK is currently the largest single supplier to our market. Volumes from the UK have increased over the years. The market share is currently around 23 per cent. The detail is on the department’s website. The noble Viscount asked whether our 10 per cent was not all tallow, et cetera. Tallow and used cooking oil account for a significant proportion of UK feedstocks. Some fuel comes from agricultural feedstocks. Again, the detail is on the website. He asked what happens to our oilseed rape production. We do not have the figures to hand. The statistical data are on our website.

[Viscount Eccles]

How will my noble friend deal with the fact that the website is madly out of date?

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[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I will have to write to the noble Viscount on that point. I confess to my shame that I have not personally studied the website.

The noble Viscount suggested that sustainability was immeasurable. Some sustainability is relatively easy to track. That is what we are mandating today. The issue of ILUC is unresolved and we are pushing to have it addressed.

[Viscount Eccles]

Perhaps I might have one more go. One of the problems is primary forest. That is forest or other wooded land of native species where at any point in time, in or after January 2008, there has been no clearly visible indication of human activity, and where the ecological processes have not been significantly disturbed. Is my noble friend suggesting that there is anywhere, in any forest, where nobody has ever been?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Viscount is asking me searching questions of great detail, and I will have to write to him.

I am just going through the questions asked by the noble Viscount. He says that we do not know where 16 per cent comes from. These are the latest published statistics for April 2010 to April 2011. He asked how we can trace biofuels and ensure that they are sustainable. Currently the RTFO has voluntary reporting in place. This reporting has enabled many suppliers to demonstrate that they can trace the production of biofuels, and that they are sustainable. This verification work has been taking place since the RTFO was introduced in 2008. It is carried out by independent, reputable companies, as I have previously mentioned.

The noble Viscount, Lord Eccles, and the noble Lord, Lord Reay, asked why the Government are supporting biofuels when doing so can push food prices up. The analysis by Her Majesty’s Government concludes that biofuels were not a particularly significant driver of the 2008 food price spike, with other factors such as the price of oil and adverse weather conditions being greater contributors. However, some biofuels will put upward pressure on prices for those agricultural commodities used in biofuel production.

My noble friend Viscount Eccles also asked what the Government are doing now to ensure that the promotion of biofuels does not result in land grabs in developing countries. The Government agree that biofuel production must be socially and environmentally sustainable and should not adversely impact on food prices and availability or on local people’s access to land and other natural resources in developing countries. The scale and complexity of this issue mean that it is most effectively addressed at the EU level. He also asked about the impact of biofuels on food availability. Under the RED, the European Commission must monitor and report every two years on the impact of biofuel policy and the increased demand for biofuel on social sustainability. This will include reporting on the availability of foodstuffs at affordable prices, particularly for people living in developing countries.

Many noble Lords have asked why there is no target after 2014. We need to await the conclusions of a number of pieces of work before we can set biofuel targets beyond 2014. The research we are waiting for is the report of the Committee on Climate Change on renewable energy, and the Government’s bioenergy review. We expect to consult on targets for 2014 to 2020 next year. There have been shifts in biofuel policy in the past. We need to ensure that policy decisions going forward are robust and stable. This is an important point for industry, as many noble Lords have pointed out during our debate.

[Baroness Worthington]

My Lords, the point I was trying to make was that this is a percentage-based target that actually translates into volumes of litres of product. The modelling for the total volume of litres of petrol to be sold suggests that that there could be a declining volume of renewable fuels. I want the Government to acknowledge that we might not be maintaining the volumes of sales but might actually be decreasing them if we stay as we are. The important factor is that if you write a target as a percentage, you have got to think about the litres of product to enable the industry to plan. Perhaps I could have an answer on that.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I confess that I do not fully understand the point made by the noble Baroness, but I will undertake to discuss it with my honourable friend Mr Norman Baker, the Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Transport.

Many noble Lords are concerned about ethanol from the United States, and what support exists for British ethanol producers. UK farmers and biofuel producers have historically been able to demonstrate strong sustainability performance for their products, which should put them in good stead once the mandatory sustainability criteria of the RED come into effect. This should help their competitiveness. Ethanol producers in the UK have also had concerns that US imports are exploiting a tariff loophole. A European Commission draft regulation addressing the loophole was considered and agreed by the EU Customs Code Committee on 12 October, and should be published soon. The mandatory sustainability criteria will allow only sustainable biofuels to be financially rewarded in the UK.

The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, asked about oil sands. The fuel quality directive seeks to reduce the life cycle of greenhouse gas emissions of fuels used in land-based transport. We want a methodology that is able to account for the greenhouse gas emissions of all crudes, including oil sands and oil shale, and which is based on robust and objective criteria. The evidence is that fuel derived from oil sands has a high intensity of greenhouse gas emissions. However, the same is true of a number of other crude sources, such as Nigerian and Angolan crude, with their associated flaring, and Venezuelan heavy crude oil.

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[Lord Bradshaw]

I believed that the 20p incentive was paid to the people who refine used cooking oil. Now the noble Earl is saying it is available to a wider group of people. It has probably got through to him that the Committee is not overjoyed about this piece of legislation. Will he go back, check this and consider whether producers should be guaranteed to get at least 20 pence? If they get more, that can be offset, but they want a guaranteed floor price.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I will write in detail to the noble Lord on the issue of used cooking oil and see if I can draft a letter that will meet his concerns. At the moment I am convinced that this is a sensible policy.

[Lord Palmer]

My Lords, the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, emphasises what a complex issue this is, because it goes back to the Treasury. When the noble Earl writes to the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, perhaps he could kindly copy us all in so we can be kept abreast of the situation.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, it is standard procedure to write to all noble Lords who have taken part in any of these debates.

The noble Lord, Lord Reay, asked me several interesting questions. First, he asked if there were any suggestions that adding biofuel to fossil fuel reduces fuel efficiency. Yes, biofuel is less energy-dense but we are blending only low volumes. He asked about the proportion of biofuels supplied today under the RTFO that comes from crops. The latest published figures indicate that two-thirds comes from crops. He also asked about the cost to the motorist to date, which has been between £300 million and £400 million per year at current market prices. He asked whether, after consulting on a number of options, we are keeping the buyout mechanism. The answer is yes. For those who are unfamiliar with the system, the buyout mechanism is in place to provide a safety valve that will protect both industry and the consumer from spikes in the cost of supplying biofuel. It will allow obligated suppliers to buy up part or all of their obligation, rather than meeting it by redeeming the RTFCs that are issued to those supplying sustainable biofuels. The cost of buying out is 30p per litre of fuel that the supplier would otherwise have been obligated to supply.

The noble Lord also asked about the efficiency and effectiveness of biofuels, and whether there were any problems. He will recall that I recently answered an Oral Question in the Chamber about ethanol and petrol, which can cause some problems. However, they are not insurmountable.

The noble Lord, Lord Grantchester, asked me what I would say in response to industry concerns that there has been inadequate time to prepare for this and that consultation on the RTFO guidance has been very brief. We have no intention of delaying transposition and implementation. The renewable energy directive was published in 2009 and set mandatory sustainability criteria for biofuels. The implementation of the criteria should not come as a surprise to industry. Those companies that have taken the opportunity to report on a voluntary basis and to establish a sustainable biofuel supply chain will be well placed to meet the requirements of an amended RTFO.

[Lord Berkeley]

Before the noble Earl winds up, perhaps I could try a variation on the question that the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, posed. The Minister said that processing and selling biofuels was a good investment. He then said that there were no targets for the volume or the price—the sale price or the costs—beyond 2014. Would he recommend anybody to invest in this, or would he rely on the advice of the verification schemes of the big four, who of course will not have a conflict of interest?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, there is a target of 5 per cent in 2014 and each year thereafter. I remind the noble Lord that we will be consulting on the future after 2014.

This is the right time for this order. We did not allow ourselves to be rushed, as we wished to ensure that the legislation was built on robust evidence. The Committee will be aware that there were a number of policy shifts relating to biofuels in the past. We wanted to be clear that this order was based on clear facts and sound science.

We have also taken steps, both with the order and through earlier work, to ensure that industry has been given adequate time and information to prepare for the change. The RED was published in 2009 and there have been regular meetings since then between departmental and industry representatives to discuss the sustainability criteria. The RTFO has been in place since 2008, and those companies that have taken the opportunity to report on a voluntary basis and to establish sustainable biofuel supply chains will be well placed to meet the requirements of an amended RTFO.

I have tried to answer as many questions as possible. I will write to noble Lords on any major points that I have not addressed, and I have already undertaken to discuss one matter with a ministerial colleague. I hope that I have addressed the key issues raised today and that the Committee will agree that the order is the best way to proceed with our UK biofuel policy.

Motion agreed.

Protection of Freedoms Bill

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Tuesday 29th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Rosser]

My Lords, our Amendment 43 in this group seeks to ban the use of fixed barriers by private parking operators unless they comply with new statutory rules on maximum parking charges and signage. The need for this amendment arises from the Government’s decision on Report in the Commons to introduce new subsection (3) into Clause 54, as has already been referred to, as a clarification in order to maintain the lawful use of fixed barriers in private car parks. However, the effect of that subsection appears to be also to reinstate mechanisms by which less principled operators will effectively be able to immobilise vehicles and prevent drivers from leaving without paying excessive or erroneous parking charges.

As Diana Johnson MP said during the debate in the other place,

“I am even more concerned that companies that wish to get round the law, operate in an intimidating way and issue excessive parking tickets will see this as an opportunity to go ahead. Under clause 54(3) putting down a barrier in effect immobilises a vehicle”.—[Official Report, Commons, 10/10/11; col. 139.]

Subsection (3) risks creating a loophole that will see the return of the very same regime of rogue operators that the Bill is trying to eradicate. Our amendment seeks to ensure that only reputable operators are allowed to use the added measure of fixed barriers in order to ensure the on-the-spot payment of tickets. If not, they would have to pursue vehicle keepers through the DVLA as provided for by Schedule 4.

Reference has already been made to Schedule 4. Under it, landowners—that is, in this context, parking providers—may pursue vehicle keepers for unpaid parking charges through the DVLA, subject to certain conditions. Concerns have been expressed about that arrangement. Consumer groups, Citizens Advice and trading standards have pointed out that rogue ticketers, whose numbers may increase following any ban on clamping, will be able to access vehicle keepers’ highly sensitive information through the DVLA and pursue them for excessive or unfairly levied charges.

The present position is that existing regulations enable only those who provide parking in accordance with industry best practice to access details of vehicle keepers from the DVLA. Industry best practice is defined in the regulations as membership of an accredited trade association, of which the British Parking Association’s approved operator scheme is currently the only one. However, the concerns that have been expressed relate to the fact that adherence to best practice is equated with membership of the BPA. The BPA is a trade association and is not resourced or intended to enforce compliance. In addition, the BPA approved operator scheme is not independent since it is decided on by the membership—namely, the parking providers—and therefore does not guarantee fairness to consumers.

In her amendments, my noble friend Lady Hayter of Kentish Town has raised an important issue, which was referred to at Second Reading when reference was made to what would happen in the event of a total ban on clamping if people found their driveways being used if they happened, as has been said today, to live near a railway station, a football stadium or perhaps some other major leisure centre, where this is a hazard that at least some of them seem to face. It is not clear, if there is to be a complete ban on clamping, exactly what their redress would be. There certainly would not seem to be much point in calling the police, since even if they felt moved to act in relation to a car on someone’s driveway, it is highly unlikely that they would regard the issue as a particular priority. I hope that the Minister will not dismiss my noble friend’s amendments but will seek to address an answer to the issues and concerns that she has raised.

We have also heard concerns raised about the impact on disabled drivers. Does the minister believe that the Government’s proposals have an impact on disabled drivers? In written evidence to the Public Bill Committee, the British Parking Association said that it was particularly concerned that the equality impact assessment assumes that there will be no impact. We have certainly heard during today’s debate of circumstances that will have an adverse impact and which appear to arise directly from the provisions in the Government’s Bill. I hope that the Minister will give a straight answer on those concerns.

We would support the establishment of an independent appeals process, but it must apply across the whole sector, not just in relation to the BPA. I assume that the Minister would have no objections to that, but no doubt he will be stating his position shortly.

I conclude by saying that in this very interesting debate a significant number of concerns have been raised and there is a degree of consensus, though not complete, from all sides of the House about the concerns that need to be addressed. Because I accept that there are no easy answers, I invite the Minister to consider whether he might convene discussions outside the Chamber with the interested parties—those who have contributed to the debate today—to talk about those concerns and see if any consensus can be reached on progress that might be made in addressing them.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, as we have heard from the noble Baroness, Lady Hayter, her Amendment 42 seeks to introduce a number of exemptions to the ban on vehicle immobilisation and towing. The amendment would allow wheel clamping and towing to continue on private land where the vehicle was unregistered in the United Kingdom, causing an obstruction or parked in a residential estate where parking was permitted only for residents or their guests, or the vehicle was adapted for towing—in other words, it was a trailer or a caravan. I understand why she and others seek these amendments, but I personally have received complaints about the activities of rogue clamping companies.

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[Lord Lucas]

My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend for that lengthy and interesting explanation. I shall follow his example and read it carefully in Hansard. I would certainly like to be included in any delegation which the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, may choose to lead to the ministry. It seems to me that a number of points still require to be cleared up.

As regards this business of having a right to move a car that is causing an obstruction, that is pretty useless if you are immediately done for scratching its paintwork. How are you going to prove that you have done no damage? You will have to start off with a complete photographic survey. Then you will presumably have to pay a couple of hundred quid for a velvet-lined lorry to lift the thing up. The kit that is needed to move a car without damaging it is not the sort of kit that most people have. It does not seem to be a piece of law that will ever be beneficial to someone who has had his driveway blocked, to a hospital where people cannot gain access to where the ambulances come in, or wherever else it might be. They will not have the kit to take effective action because there will be too few occasions when this happens and there will be no private operators to respond.

I remain concerned about proposed subsection (3) and I do not think that its implications have been thought through. All you need is a chain on the ground attached to a post, and you could come along, stretch it out across the gateway to the park and padlock the other end. It is enough to immobilise a car. Or you could set out posts around the park and loop the chain around them. As the provision is currently phrased, it is an invitation to bad behaviour, although I understand why it is there and I do not want to inconvenience the ordinary municipal car park that has an up-and-down barrier, which is a sensible arrangement. However, we have to have a more rogue-proof provision. I look forward very much to the meeting.

[Earl Attlee]

Perhaps I may quickly respond to my noble friend. As regards large establishments such as hospitals, I imagine that they would use an accredited car park operator. As to the example of a discrete chain that you could suddenly pull up after the motorist has left, I remind my noble friend that the landholder would have to have good signage, otherwise he could fall foul of the offence of immobilising the vehicle.

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

My Lords, I thank the noble Earl for his response, and I thank the noble Earl, Lord Lytton, the noble Baronesses, Lady Grey-Thompson and Lady Randerson, and the noble Lords, Lord Rosser, Lord Lucas and Lord Newton, for their contributions.

I am immensely disappointed because the response did not answer what for me are the two major issues—residential parking and disabled parking. The Minister has not responded at all on those matters. When talking to one of my colleagues from Northern Ireland, they said simply that it is illegal to park in a disabled space in Northern Ireland, and that the police enforce that law. I was also told what happened to other cars that park in disabled spaces—they were immobilised, albeit with a knife to the wheel, rather than by a wheel clamp. Nothing in the Bill will make it easier—in fact, it will be harder—to preserve the right of disabled people to park in disabled bays.

However, the real issue is that my amendments are not about car parks. There was the idea of having lighting, signage and so on, but I am talking about people’s own private car-parking spaces at a block of flats with perhaps five or 10 parking areas for those five or 10 flat owners. They do not want to put up CCTV, lights or signage. It is their private parking. That is the driver behind this issue, and I am afraid that none of the responses addresses such people’s needs. They do not want to issue tickets and go to the DVLA to find out who a car belongs to. They want to deter drivers from parking where they should not—whether that space is for a disabled vehicle or their own.

[Earl Attlee]

The noble Baroness gave an example of just a few parking slots in a housing estate, but does she agree that commonly available are small barriers or posts that you can put in place and would be very effective in stopping other motorists from effectively stealing the landholder’s parking slot?

[Baroness Hayter of Kentish Town]

I look forward to the Minister giving money to all those people to pay for them. They are actually rather expensive. Perhaps some of the rogues who do asphalting at the front of houses could install those posts at the same time. I do not think that the noble Earl heard my example of Mr and Mrs Hubbard, who are disabled. Where are they going to get the money to put up an extra block to stop people parking in front of their sheltered accommodation? Having to do that would be extraordinary.

I am very concerned about the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Lucas, about the greater use of the DVLA database. There are great dangers in expecting more people to have to chase the owner, rather than, having clamped the car, getting people to come round and sort the situation out there and then. I thought that we wanted there to be less, rather than more, access to private data. That is also the case regarding CCTV. I had thought that part of the Bill provided for less CCTV. I happen to be in favour of CCTV—many women are—but the whole thrust of the Bill is for less of it. Now little blocks of flats with five residents are meant to put CCTV outside so that they can see who has been parking in the middle of the night. That is difficult to understand.

On the issues raised by the noble Baroness, Lady Randerson, I understand that we take a different position on clamping, but the issues that I am raising are exactly the same: what do you do about a block of flats that is next to a charging car park—although it could be anywhere—when ordinary residents cannot get into their garage or to their front door?

If they are disabled, where they park, there may be a ramp; if they have to park somewhere else, there may be steps, so they cannot go there. There seems to be no consideration of the small residential group. The idea of moving the car was raised earlier. You have to break into it to move it, so presumably that will damage the car straightaway. If you have a driving licence only for a motorbike and not for a car, you might not be licensed to move it at all. I find the idea of breaking into someone's car to move it as hard to understand as the answer.

The noble Earl, Lord Lytton, talked about serial offenders; this is a major problem. We are talking not about people who just overstay—they meant to move it but did not come back—but serial offenders who go into the car parking area, which is not a car park and where they should never have gone anyway, and leave the car there. I did not raise the issue of community facilities, such as churches, where it may be very difficult if you are going to a funeral or wedding and suddenly cannot drive in there. That was not the thrust of my amendments at all; I am interested in residential areas. Nevertheless, those points have not been answered.

The major points that I am interested in, particularly the blue badge system and disabled car parking areas, wherever they may be, or small residential areas, have not been answered. Nevertheless, I am grateful for the opportunity to discuss this further and take up that offer. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Rosser]

My Lords, we have Amendment 53 in this group. I shall attempt to be reasonably brief as many of the points were made in the previous debate. However, to recap, it is under Schedule 4 that landowners—that is, parking providers—may pursue vehicle keepers for unpaid parking charges through the DVLA, subject to certain conditions. As I said earlier, some concerns have been expressed about this arrangement, not least by consumers’ groups and Citizens Advice. I think that the Minister will find, for instance, that Citizens Advice Scotland has some examples of the adverse impact of the scheme as it applies there and it can give information on that.

The question of access to information is potentially of some concern. In evidence to the House of Commons Transport Committee last week, the Corporate Affairs Director of the DVLA said that if there were an allegation, for example, about damage or harm done through the use of a vehicle, the person alleging the harm would be given details of the keeper of the vehicle from whom they could make inquiries as to who was the operator of the vehicle at the time the alleged harm was done. When asked to whom this information would be given, the DVLA representative said that if they were in the private parking field, the companies would have to be members of the accredited trade association—that is, the British Parking Association’s approved operator scheme, which is the only approved operator scheme in the parking sector.

When it was then suggested that as long as an organisation joined the BPA, the DVLA would hand over information to it about the keeper of a vehicle, the DVLA said that it would, provided that it was convinced by the details of the request and the organisation was known to be a member of the approved operator scheme. However, as the Minister will know, recent media stories have claimed that the personal details of more than a million motorists were sold to private clamping companies by the DVLA in 2010, which suggests that maybe the safeguards against giving information to organisations or representatives of organisations who should not be entitled to know details of the keeper of a vehicle are not as strong as they should be.

Our amendment seeks to address the issue by requiring private parking providers to demonstrate adherence with industry best practice—that relates to all private parking providers—on issues such as signage display or maximum penalties to gain details of the vehicle keeper from the DVLA. The amendment also places a burden of responsibility on the DVLA to ensure that a keeper’s personal information is provided only to reputable parking providers by establishing a code of conduct on fair practice, including appropriate penalty charges and requirements for the display of notices in respect of parking of vehicles on the relevant land. I hope that the Minister will give careful consideration to the amendment which seeks to ensure that there is a code of practice and that it is an independent code of conduct that is operated and run not only in the interests of the parking providers but in the interests of those who use the parking facilities.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, all the amendments in this group seek to amend in their various ways the provisions on keeper liability in Schedule 4 to the Bill. Amendments 44 and 54, in the name of my noble friend Lord Lucas, set out a further set of conditions that the creditor must comply with to claim unpaid parking charges from the keeper of a vehicle. Unless the Committee appears to desire it, I do not propose to weary it by going through each one in detail, much as I would enjoy doing so.

Although the amendments are clearly well intentioned and designed to offer further safeguards to the motorist, I would hope to persuade my noble friend that they are in the most part either unnecessary or inappropriate. I say that because the amendments do not appear appropriate for trespass situations which the Bill also covers, and in relation to private car parks. The issues that the amendments address can be dealt with either through self-regulation within the industry, or they will be matters that may be considered by the independent appeals body that will be established before the provisions come into effect.

First and foremost, we do not consider that it is appropriate to add further conditions over and above those contained in the schedule for landowners who wish to take action against those who trespass on their property. In relation to non-trespass situations—private car parks—a number of the suggested conditions will be subject to the individual facts of a given case and would anyway be dealt with by the disputes arrangements, whether that was an internal scheme or through the independent appeals body. We have already made it clear that any notice to the driver or keeper of the vehicle intending to recover unpaid parking charges must set out what the appeals arrangements are. As such, we believe that the conditions that we have set out in the schedule adequately cover what would be expected of the creditor in seeking to recover unpaid parking charges. It will be more appropriate for the independent appeals body to hear disputes and review the evidence presented by either party rather than seeking to specify these matters in legislation beforehand.

In addition, consumer protection legislation already applies to parking contracts and there is the added safeguard that only those parking providers who are members of an accredited trade association will have access to DVLA vehicle keeper data and can therefore pursue keeper liability as part of their general enforcement arrangements. In response to the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, who asked about the 1 million occasions when the DVLA data were accessed, an accredited trade association can get DVLA data. A high figure is representative of the high number of on-road offences in which keeper details were requested. It also covers private policing to, for example, supermarkets. The Government have made it clear to the parking industry that members of such accredited trade associations—in this case the British Parking Association’s Approved Operator Scheme—will need to sign up to a code of practice that will include an agreement to have disputes and complaints dealt with via an independent appeals body.

In a similar vein, the amendment in the name of the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, seeks further regulation in the form of a statutory code of conduct covering penalty charges and signage. Any creditor would have to demonstrate that they had complied with the code before being able to obtain keeper details from the DVLA. Again, this is an overregulatory approach that would apply to all private land, including to trespass situations. It is both inappropriate and unnecessary. As I mentioned, members of the British Parking Association's approved operator scheme already operate under a code of practice that provides guidance on both penalty charges and signage. The Bill also contains reserve powers to prescribe signage if this proves necessary.

The noble Lord, Lord Rosser, touched on Scotland and the experience of Citizens Advice. I will follow it up and if the noble Lord could assist me with further details, it would be much appreciated.

The purpose of Schedule 4 is simply to strengthen the arrangements for the enforcement of unpaid parking charges as an alternative to wheel clamping once the ban has come into force. Schedule 4 covers all land not subject to statutory control, from private car parks to the front driveways of private properties. It would be neither sensible nor appropriate in these circumstances to introduce wide-ranging regulation that would seriously impinge on the ability of smaller landowners to control parking on their land. The self-regulatory approach for larger operators as a condition of membership of a government-accredited trade association is the right approach for larger private car park operators and their agents.

I turn to the government amendments. As I indicated, we will not commence the keeper liability provisions in Schedule 4 until an independent appeals body is in place. Government Amendments 48, 50 and 52 reinforce this point. They clarify the conditions that must be met when issuing a ticket to a driver or vehicle keeper for an unpaid parking charge by requiring that the ticket must include details both of any arrangements offered internally by the company, and any arrangements available by independent adjudication or arbitration. This reinforces and strengthens the Government's commitment that Schedule 4 will not commence until an independent appeals service is in place.

I will deal briefly with government Amendments 56 and 57. They make a small change to Schedule 4 following representations from the British Vehicle Rental and Leasing Association. I declare a small interest as I attended its 2005 annual dinner and found myself sitting next to a lady who appeared to be the girl of my dreams. I am pleased to say that she is now the Countess Attlee. The schedule excludes vehicle hire firms from keeper liability provisions provided certain conditions are fulfilled when vehicles are hired out. The association pointed out that the definition of a hire agreement that refers to hire periods not exceeding six months does not reflect modern vehicle rental arrangements, in which longer periods of hire are commonplace. We accepted this point and amended the definition of a hire agreement so that it covers hire periods of any duration.

In summing up, I assure your Lordships and the Committee that the Government are fully committed to monitoring the effect of the ban on wheel clamping and the associated keeper liability provisions in Schedule 4. If there is evidence that we need to take further measures when the new arrangements are in place, we will of course consider this. We do not believe that there will be any need, but if evidence shows that problems exist, we will act. However, there have been no problems of note with rogue ticketing in Scotland, where wheel clamping has been banned since 1992. Given this assurance, I hope that my noble friend Lord Lucas will withdraw his amendment and that he and the noble Lord, Lord Rosser, will support the government amendments.

Airports: Heathrow

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Glentoran]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government, in the light of the possible sale of British Midland International, what they are doing to protect Heathrow landing slots for flights to and from Northern Ireland.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the allocation of take-off and landing slots at Heathrow is governed by EU law. We recognise the economic importance of air services from the devolved Administrations to Heathrow. However, airlines face competitive pressure to use their slots for the most commercially viable routes. Ultimately, decisions about which air services operate between UK airports are commercial ones for airlines to determine.

[Lord Glentoran]

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply. The background to this Question is that BMI is being sold. It is vital for the Northern Ireland economy to have a regular professional service from Heathrow to Belfast. Does not the Minister agree that the fortunes of a part of the United Kingdom should not be in the hands of an airline or its executives? What will Her Majesty’s Government do to ensure that Northern Ireland is not deprived of Heathrow landing slots, which are vital for badly needed inward investment into the Province?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the proposals for the sale of BMI are a commercial matter for its owner, Lufthansa. There is no indication that there will be any changes to the current level of BMI services from Belfast City Airport to London Heathrow. A number of other airlines also operate services between Northern Ireland’s airports and London airports. Existing services also operate from Belfast International Airport to hub airports in northern Europe.

[Lord Kilclooney]

My Lords, does the Minister recall that there used to be two airlines flying from Belfast to Heathrow—British Airways and British Midland? However, British Airways withdrew that service and allocated the slots elsewhere. If it now takes over British Midland, will the Government do nothing to stop British Airways withdrawing those slots from the Belfast flight?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, at the moment we do not see a problem. However, it would be open to the Northern Ireland Assembly to apply to the Secretary of State for Transport to impose a public service obligation on an air route from Northern Ireland to London, should the Assembly feel that a case can be made which satisfies the EU regulations on PSOs. If approved, this would permit slots to be ring-fenced at a London airport. However, there is no other mechanism for the Government to intervene in the allocation of slots at Heathrow or other London airports. We do not see the need at the moment to impose a public service obligation.

[Lord Kinnock]

Does the Minister recognise that it is important to sustain the Heathrow slots for Northern Ireland simply because Heathrow is the most substantial hub? In the case of sustaining the economic interests of Northern Ireland, it is important that there is an absolutely dependable service from that hub into the Province. That is in the interests of the whole of the United Kingdom. Therefore, will the Minister maximise the use of public service obligations to ensure that when Lufthansa disposes of British Midland the slots will not disappear into a black hole as well?

--- Later in debate ---

[Earl Attlee]

The noble Lord is quite right in his initial analysis, with which I agree. However, at the moment we do not see a problem, and for that reason we would be unable to impose a public service obligation.

[Lord Alderdice]

My Lords, my noble friend may not see a problem, but will he take it from me that those of us from Northern Ireland who are users of the service do share the anxieties raised by the noble Lord about British Airways’ previous treatment of Northern Ireland? This is not just a question of the economy of a company but the economy of a part of the United Kingdom. Having slots to other airports is simply not an adequate replacement. Economy flexible flights with British Midland now cost well in excess of £500 return. It is clear that it is making a profit. Therefore, it does not seem reasonable to assume other than that the Government should take some responsibility and assist the Northern Ireland Assembly rather than simply leave this matter to the Assembly to deal with on its own.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I hear what my noble friend says. There is a further difficulty with the public service obligation, which is that one can be imposed only if there is a difficulty with services to London as a whole, as a region. If there is a problem with services to London as a hub airport, that would not justify imposing a public service obligation, so at the moment it is difficult to have the effect that the noble Lord seeks.

[Lord Davies of Oldham]

My Lords, the House should have taken solace from the fact that the Minister has added to his very negative response in his first Answer by indicating that the Government can act if it proves to be necessary. Will he recognise that of course the interests of Northern Ireland are very much involved in this issue, but that it is not just Northern Ireland and Belfast? Edinburgh, too, has its anxieties about this situation. Is he aware that Willie Walsh, the egregious head of IAG, in welcoming the potential opportunities from this purchase, stated that in fact the great business opportunities, of course, lay with using these slots for long-haul aircraft, not for serving parts of the United Kingdom?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I can definitely feel the heat from your Lordships. The sale of these slots to BA will increase the share of BA’s parent, IAG, of all Heathrow airport slots from 44 per cent to around 53 per cent, although IAG points out that even after the acquisition of BMI’s slots, its percentage of Heathrow slots would still be smaller than Lufthansa’s 60 per cent slot holding at Frankfurt.

[Lord Forsyth of Drumlean]

Will my noble friend give an undertaking to look at this issue more carefully? The noble Lord is perfectly correct that this is an issue not just for Northern Ireland but for Scotland, where the flights from Glasgow and Edinburgh have been greatly reduced, the fares are very substantial and it is undoubtedly the case that British Airways would use these slots for more lucrative transatlantic flights. It is no good looking at London as a whole. The point is that Heathrow is the hub from which it is possible to do business internationally.

--- Later in debate ---

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, commercial aviation is a global business. This is reflected in the fact that airport slots in EC countries are managed within regulations that follow the worldwide slot guidelines determined by IATA. The EU slot regulations seek to ensure that non-discriminatory and transparent procedures for slot allocation exist across member states.

Transport: London and the Regions

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Tuesday 15th November 2011 Grand Committee

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I start by thanking the noble Lord, Lord Empey, for securing this debate. He put the position of Northern Ireland very clearly. I suggest to the noble Lord, Lord Davies, that my department has a very good understanding of regional needs. The Government’s vision is for a transport system that is an engine for economic growth, sustainable, safer and more secure. In delivering this transport system we will help to improve the quality of life in our communities. Transport networks, including those between London and the regions, provide crucial links that allow people and businesses to prosper. Simply put, increasing connectivity between our great cities and international gateways will facilitate the movement of goods and people and encourage economic growth right across the country. The Government’s plans, including targeted investment in forthcoming transport projects, will contribute to building the balanced, dynamic and low-carbon economy that is essential for our future prosperity. In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Empey, these investments will be sustained. Forecasts show that our country’s transport networks are becoming increasingly congested and that demand for travel is set to grow. This will further exacerbate congestion unless we act.

Let me remind the Committee of some of the action that we are already taking. The Government are providing additional Pendolino trains on the west coast main line. By the end of 2012 all the trains will be in service, thus increasing capacity on that route by around 20 per cent. Further to this, the intercity express programme will deliver a new fleet of 100 intercity trains—not carriages—to replace the existing diesel-powered 125 fleet. This will support and accommodate anticipated growth on routes, including those to the north of England, East Anglia, Scotland, Wales and the south-west. Introducing these trains, combined with infrastructure improvements such as the electrification of the Great Western Main Line, will see journey times fall and capacity increasing by more than 30 per cent during peak hours.

[Lord Berkeley]

The last announcement I saw from the noble Earl’s department said nothing about the IEPs going to East Anglia or to the south-west. The south-west was going to retain the 125s. Has the policy changed?

[Earl Attlee]

No, my Lords. It refers to the cascading of rolling stock. I will touch on cascading later. The noble Lord, Lord Davies, asked about rail electrification. The policy of the Government is to support a progressive electrification of the rail network in England and Wales, and we are looking at the costs and benefits of further electrification. We will continue to work with stakeholders to review these schemes and assess their affordability and value for money.

These improvements will play an important part in making better use of our existing network, but they will not be enough to keep up with increasing demand for rail travel. Additional intercity capacity will be needed in future and the Government cannot afford to ignore this problem. High speed rail provides the best way to meet that pressing need. The Government’s proposals for a national high speed rail network will add the capacity that we need, bring faster journeys between major towns and cities, improve reliability of journeys and drive modal shift from air and road to rail. Crucially, high speed rail is an investment in the future of our whole country, bringing economic growth and other benefits to the towns and cities of the Midlands and the north as well as to London. In answer to the noble Lord, Lord Davies, this will help to reduce the north-south divide.

My right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Transport intends to announce the outcome of the recent major public consultation and final decisions on the Government’s strategy for high speed rail before the end of the year. While the importance of rail networks should not be underestimated, the majority of journeys between London and the regions are made by road. The strategic road network connects all major English towns and cities, and links in to the road and motorway networks in Wales and Scotland. As your Lordships will be aware, the main road links between London and the regions are the M1, M4 and M6. During the current spending review period, seven schemes are planned on these roads. These will increase capacity and journey time reliability. Six out of the seven schemes are managed motorways, which, through a combination of techniques, including hard shoulder running and gantry mounted variable signing and better co-ordination, will provide around 210 additional lane miles during busy periods. It is also worth noting that three years of research on the M42 managed motorway pilot scheme, which was introduced by the previous Government, has shown that accidents have more than halved since hard shoulder running was introduced.

Air travel has become increasingly popular for domestic journeys. The Government recognise the importance of air links between London’s airports and our regional airports, not least because they provide fast and direct links between cities, which is exactly the type of service that both business and leisure travellers demand. A key part of the Government’s approach to aviation is to seek to create the right conditions for UK regional airports to flourish. The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, talked about the problems of air travel in the south-east. I should like to draw the attention of the Committee to the fact that Newquay airport has scheduled services to London Gatwick and Manchester. New scheduled services to Edinburgh, Glasgow and the east Midlands are due to commence in 2012.

It is important to remember that in the UK, airlines operate in a competitive and commercial environment, and have done so for many years. Individual airlines determine the routes they operate, with take-off and landing slots at major London airports governed by European law. Currently more than 90 return flights are operated between Northern Ireland airports and London, and 600 each week between Scottish airports and London.

We want to see a successful and competitive aviation industry which supports economic growth and addresses aviation’s environmental impact. Aviation should be able to grow and play its part in delivering our environmental goals and protecting the quality of life of communities. Accordingly, the Government have made a commitment to produce a sustainable framework for UK aviation. In March we published a scoping document to begin a dialogue on the future direction of aviation policy, and we will issue a public consultation on a draft policy framework next year. We are also seeking to reform the economic regulation of airports, to put passengers at the heart of the regulatory regime, and to support investments in our airports.

I will try to answer as many questions of noble Lords in the time available. The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley, talked about rail travel from Cornwall. As touched on by the noble Lord, Cornwall County Council has an ambitious programme of local rail improvements. We are talking to the council and Devon County Council about devolving some responsibilities for rail to a group of south-west local authorities. A typical journey time from London to Plymouth is just over three hours, and around five hours to Penzance. The noble Lord, Lord Berkeley is correct in his analysis, but there is no easy way of addressing this issue. Trains on this route make frequent calls, so cutting out the number of stops would be one way of speeding up journey times. But the communities at which the trains stop value their calls, and withdrawing those would create difficulties for them.

The noble Lord also talked about what we know as the cascading of used rolling stock. The noble Lord will be well aware that the business cases for rail schemes, including electrification, often rely upon the process of cascading, and it is a complicated jigsaw that the department has to manage.

[Lord Berkeley]

May I correct the noble Earl? I entirely agree with him that the fewer stops there are, the faster the trains go, but leaving out stops will leave some communities missing. That is why I said that there should be a stopping service in between the fast ones every hour, to pick up the passengers from the communities in between.

[Earl Attlee]

I am grateful to the noble Lord for that elucidation. The noble Lord asked whether the minimum service levels will be based on the current First Great Western timetable. The proposed approach to the specification of the services for the next Great Western franchise has yet to be developed and would anyway form part of the public consultation.

Many noble Lords have talked about the problem of slot allocation at Heathrow and public service obligations. Perhaps it would be helpful to the Committee if I carefully reiterated the positions. It would be open to the Northern Ireland Assembly to apply to the Secretary of State for Transport to impose a public service obligation on an air route from Northern Ireland to London, should it feel that a case can be made which satisfies the EU regulation on PSOs. If approved, this would permit slots to be ring-fenced at a London airport. As I said at Question Time, there is no other mechanism for the Government to intervene in the allocation of slots at Heathrow or other London airports.

It is important to note that EU regulations state that the PSO must be between two cities or regions and not between individual airports. Therefore, any PSO would have to take into account services to all five London airports. Other European states have exactly the same problems. You may have a region in France that is slightly deprived, and it might want to fly direct to Charles de Gaulle, but it cannot. It might, perhaps, have to fly to Orly and not have the benefit of going to a hub airport. We do not necessarily have a unique problem.

The noble Lord, Lord Empey, suggested that we cannot leave this issue to the commercial market. It is important to note that any PSO on a service to Heathrow could be subject to legal challenge from other airlines. The noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, talked about the requirements in franchise rail operations, but he needs to remember that airline operations are commercial operations, not franchise operations.

[Lord Bradshaw]

Will the Minister pause there to think of what happens with the services to the Highlands and Islands of Scotland? They are not commercial. They are supported by a PSO agreement.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I was just coming on to that point. The noble Lord pointed out that PSOs already exist on air services to Scottish islands from Aberdeen and Inverness. He is correct. They are supported by the Scottish Government as lifeline services that otherwise would not be economic to operate.

[Lord Bradshaw]

They are lifeline services, but is Northern Ireland’s remaining air service to Heathrow not in the same category because, if it disappears, the region will be in real trouble? This is not a trivial point. You have got to concern yourself with regional development. Next year, Londonderry will be the European city of culture. Perhaps the air service will disappear at the same time.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I understand what the noble Lord is saying, but BMI has not been sold, and no services have been stopped yet. I think he is going ahead of himself slightly.

The noble Baroness, Lady Scott, asked about the Greater Anglia (Short) franchise and customer satisfaction. Although this is a relatively short franchise, she will recognise that Abellio has offered commitments that will improve customer experience. She also asked several other very detailed questions, and I fear that I will have to write to her on those points.

Abellio plans to continue to run all those services that are crowded today or are likely to become crowded in the next five years in the formation planned by NXEA. In almost all cases where crowding occurs today, the trains concerned are being operated at the maximum formation allowed by the infrastructure, so it is an infrastructure limitation, not a rolling stock limitation.

Finally, the noble Lord, Lord Empey, touched on the Thames estuary airport. We welcome the input from the mayor and Lord Foster, and their suggestions will be considered alongside the many other contributions about our future aviation policy. However, such a project would be hugely complex. Detailed consideration would be needed on a range of issues, including airspace capacity, safety and access to the airport as well as costs and funding.

[Lord Empey]

I know that my colleague in Northern Ireland, the Transport Minister Danny Kennedy, has been to the European Parliament and spoken to the chair of its transport committee, who in turn has spoken to Lufthansa about the slot issue. This is a pertinent issue. I understand the legal difficulties the Minister is in, but perhaps it is something that with co-operation between Brussels and ourselves we have in our own hands to resolve.

[Earl Attlee]

I am sure that noble Lords will keep a very close eye on this issue.

The noble Lord, Lord Empey, suggested that he would return to this matter on a future occasion, and I look forward to all such debates. In conclusion, I thank him for this short debate and for all his efforts in encouraging improved transport links between London, the regions and Northern Ireland.

Committee adjourned at 6.40 pm.

Shipping: Towing Vessels

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Thursday 3rd November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the Government believe that ship salvage should be a commercial matter and that there are sufficient tugs around the majority of the UK coast to respond to ships in difficulty. There are fewer commercial tugs available in the waters off north and western Scotland so the Government have funded two tugs for an interim period to allow locally interested parties time to develop plans for sustainable provision without recourse to taxpayers’ money.

[Viscount Younger of Leckie]

I thank the Minister for that reply. He will recall the “Sea Empress” disaster in 1996 when 73,000 tonnes of crude oil spilt along the south Wales coast, and also the foundering of HMS “Astute” last year. Is he aware that the withdrawal of these tugs means that there are simply no replacement tugs with the bollard-pulling power to effect a rescue? How comfortable is he with the responsibility being passed to ship owners, given that ownership is usually as clear as mud?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the world has moved on since the report of Lord Donaldson. We have port state control and inspection of ships, the integrated safety management code of ships, much more reliable ships and much better situational awareness for the coastguard, coupled with the SOSREP system. Finally, most tankers are double-hulled. Single-hulled tankers are not allowed in UK waters except in exceptional circumstances.

[Lord West of Spithead]

My Lords, is the Minister aware that there is a growing perception that the coalition Government are suffering from collective sea blindness? We have just discovered that over the last few weeks we have no ship at immediate readiness for counterterrorism or disasters around the UK—no Royal Navy ship at all. We have got rid of our broad area surveillance in the SDSR. We have just heard about the tug towing, and I have to say there are still a lot of single-hull tankers around, not least in the Royal Fleet Auxiliary because there has been no money to replace them. The National Maritime Intelligence Centre, which he referred to, is not up and running at full speed, which it should be. I can go on and on.

I am sure these perceptions are not right, but could the Minister confirm that the Government are looking at this in a co-ordinated way because there is very real worry? Perceptions often seem more real than reality, and there is a very real perception that this is not being pulled together.

[Earl Attlee]

The noble Lord is right, he has gone on—he has gone on about defence matters. This is a commercial matter. One of the impacts of the Government funding an emergency towing vessel, say at Falmouth, is that it prevents commercial operators from stationing an ETV at Falmouth because there is no work for them.

[The Earl of Mar and Kellie]

My Lords, can I ask my noble friend what he believes to be the maximum acceptable steaming time to effect a rescue after the contracting process has been completed?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, no.

--- Later in debate ---

[Lord Kinnock]

My Lords, that was about the most articulate ministerial answer I have heard in this House. While the Minister is right to draw attention to great advances such as port state control, the ISM code and double hulling, even cumulatively they are not enough when a ship has foundered. Is the Minister aware, when he puts an emphasis on commercial tug companies, that they can be expected to act commercially? This is why it is necessary for government support to ensure that in any and all conditions—however unprofitable they may initially seem commercially—those tugs are available right round the British coast.

[Earl Attlee]

The noble Lord makes some quite sensible points. However, it is important to understand that one of the recommendations of the Donaldson report was the SOSREP, the Secretary of State’s representative, and he has extensive powers to direct that ships will assist other ships in difficulties. It is also worth pointing out that the emergency towing vessels have not yet been decisive in rescuing any super-tanker because none has come to grief.

[Lord Greenway]

My Lords, would the Minister agree that the greatest risk occurs in the Dover Strait, which is one of the most heavily trafficked maritime areas in the world? The French have somewhat reluctantly moved one of their two large ETVs up from La Rochelle to cover the gap left by the withdrawal of our “Anglian Monarch”. Would he also agree that the Dover Strait is special because many of the ships transiting are deep draft vessels operating in comparatively shallow water? This leads to the danger that, if there were an accident, there would be a motorway pile-up situation—as last happened with the Norwegian car carrier “Tricolor”, which was run into by two other ships after she had sunk, and over 100 other ships passed within the clearly marked exclusion zone.

[Earl Attlee]

The noble Lord makes an extremely important point and his analysis is correct. However, although the Dover Strait is an area of higher likelihood because of the concentration of ships in the area, experience indicates that the consequences of a grounding are likely to be lower because the seabed is flat and sandy rather than rocky. Regarding his point about the motorway pile-up, the coastguard, with automatic monitoring of ship movements, will be aware immediately a ship stops moving and can warn other ships of the difficulties.

[Lord Davies of Oldham]

My Lords, is it not the case that the Government are not prepared to pay the relatively modest insurance policy to guarantee that we have adequate towing tug capacity in British waters? If a major disaster occurs, we will be dependent upon Rotterdam or other foreign ports to produce the necessary towing and tug equipment. Is that not a dereliction of duty on the part of the Government?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Lord makes an important point about Rotterdam. Rotterdam and the Dutch have great experience in salvage operations. There are lots of tugs operating out of there. If we withdrew the funding, which we have, from the Falmouth tug, someone will probably station a tug in Falmouth in order to pick up the market. Currently, however, we are distorting the market by paying out large sums of taxpayers’ money to no good effect.

EU: Financial Stability and Economic Growth

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Thursday 3rd November 2011 Lords Chamber

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, we are doing quite well on time but noble Lords need to be very careful. Otherwise we will run out of time if we overshoot—even 30 seconds on each speech will make a difference.

Saudi Arabia: Driving Licences

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Wednesday 26th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

To ask Her Majesty’s Government what consideration they have given to the recognition of Saudi Arabian driving licences in the United Kingdom.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, no consideration has been given to the exchange of Saudi Arabian driving licences in the UK. Consideration would be given only after an approach has come from the Government of Saudi Arabia to recognise their driving licences. To date, no such approach has been made.

[Baroness Smith of Basildon]

My Lords, I am slightly confused by the Minister’s Answer. My understanding is that Saudi Arabian driving licences are valid in this country for up to a year for Saudi Arabian citizens. As he will be aware, Saudi Arabia is the only country in the world to make it a criminal offence for women to drive. Recently, a sentence of 10 lashes was handed out to a woman driver, although that was later commuted. Will the Minister consider the current position? Will he look at whether the UK recognition of Saudi Arabian driving licences for a year should be withheld until driving licences are available to all citizens and not just to male citizens? Can he discuss with his Foreign Office colleagues what action can be taken by the British Government to raise concerns about the Saudi Arabian Government’s position on this appalling discrimination?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, on the substantive question about recognition or non-recognition of Saudi driving licences, the noble Baroness will recognise that we are under a treaty obligation in terms of the international circulation order. However, we welcome King Abdullah’s overturning of the recent sentence of lashing for a woman convicted of driving. It is well known that this Government, like their predecessor, have particular concern about some aspects of human rights protection in Saudi Arabia, most notably women’s rights. The UK has consistently called for women in Saudi Arabia to be able to participate fully in society. That means removing legal and cultural barriers, like the guardianship system and the ban on women driving.

[Baroness Falkner of Margravine]

My Lords, does my noble friend accept that the ban on women driving in Saudi Arabia, of course, has nothing to do with theology or Islam and has everything to do with the desire of men in Saudi Arabia to remain guardians of women—in other words, discrimination? Will he tell the House how the United Kingdom voted when Saudi Arabia was elected on to the executive board of UN Women, the agency for gender equality and empowerment for women? If he does not have the answer with him, perhaps he might write to me saying how the UK voted?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Baroness has asked me quite a detailed question, and I am afraid that I shall have to write to her.

[Lord Davies of Oldham]

My Lords, as the Arab spring is showing some buds even in Saudi Arabia, with regard to the participation of women on the Consultative Council, could the Government at least indicate to the Saudi Government that, from our experience, women are safer drivers than men?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I am sure that when we talk to the Saudi Arabian Government, we make that point.

[Lord Berkeley]

My Lords, surely the noble Lord could say straight to the Saudi Arabian Government, “We are not going to enter into these negotiations until you allow all women of the right age and with the right experience to be able to drive in Saudi Arabia and we will not accept those licences in this country until that is achieved”.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I think the best way of achieving our objective—I think we are clear about our objective—is to apply steady, consistent pressure to states like Saudi Arabia. We will not get them to roll over overnight. No doubt the Saudis give us friendly advice about, for instance, underage drinking and other cultural matters.

Animals: Experimentation

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Monday 24th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Winston]

My Lords, in congratulating my noble friend Lord Wills on securing this debate I declare an interest. I have held a licence to carry out animal research for more than 40 years. I may be the only Member of this House to do so. I still have an active licence and, indeed, went to see the Home Office inspector only two weeks ago. I am also chairman of a company that is involved in transplantation work using pig organs. I recently had to go to the Home Office for revalidation. I have a certificate from the Institute of Biology hanging up in my lavatory. Unfortunately, that institute does not have a typewriter that works terribly well. The certificate states:

“This is to certify that Professor Robert Winston is licensed to operate on mouse, rat, guinea pig, hamster and rabbi”.

No rabbi has visited my house to inspect the certificate, which is probably just as well. I replied using a typewriter which had all the “t”s missing; I felt that was the only way in which I could reply.

I am not sure that this matter is as deeply contentious as the noble Lord, Lord Willis, says it is. Let us face it: 95 per cent of us perfectly happily wear leather shoes. We should put the animal rights lobby into some kind of focus. I regularly speak at all sorts of public meetings around the country and I do not get the impression that animal research is so contentious. Of course, various issues still need to be addressed, but I fear that we might exaggerate the public response to this, which serves no good purpose.

My field has largely been that of in vitro fertilisation and reproductive biology. It is interesting to consider that more than 1 million babies could not have existed without the research that has been carried out on rodents. That is true of my work in the screening of embryos for genetic disorders. This has been a revolution in reproductive medicine. It means that women can embark on a pregnancy knowing for certain that they will be free from having a baby which will die in the first few years of life. That was made possible purely through extensive animal research. Animal research has contributed hugely to physiological medical research in virtually every field, whether it be the liver, heart, brain or kidneys, or neuroscience or any major discipline. Last year’s Nobel prize in my field was won as a result of medical research on animals, as has often been the case with many Nobel prize winners.

I am now involved in the field of transplantation. One of the interesting issues is that organ failure is extremely common. Around the world every 15 minutes or so a new person is put on an organ transplant waiting list. I work at Imperial College London. Using mice initially but also pigs, we are trying to modify the cell surface antigens of the pig so that they are not recognised by the human immune system, so that when an organ is transplanted—a kidney, heart or liver—it may not be rejected. That is an ethical imperative. It saves human life in a way that no artificial organ appears to be capable of doing. We may talk about bionics in our society but I think that it will be at least 20 or 30 years before an artificially made organ is remotely possible. However, xenotransplantation now has a real possibility of saving vast numbers of lives and improving medical care.

I do not think we can argue that there is any substitute for animal research. Of course, reduction is possible but I do not think that substitution is. I give an example. Much has been made of the use of cell culture to replace animal research. I speak with some knowledge of cell culture, having worked in that field for a very long time with my embryos and with other tissues. However, the problem with cell cultures is that they produce huge numbers of aberrations which are not produced in the intact animal. In the intact rodent we are able to study cell signalling in a way that goes completely awry in a cell culture. The epigenetic changes that occur in cell culture mean that genes often do not express in the way that they would do normally in the intact animal. Of course, even organ culture will not do that either. It is a very technical issue.

I have worked with animals in the United States, in Belgium for a year, in France, Germany, Australia and New Zealand. In Britain, the overall standard of inspection, control and regulation as it stands—with or without the European directive—is remarkably high. We should, however, try to improve our animal houses; that would be a great help. The problem, of course, is that universities often do not have enough money to do that.

We need to say very clearly that it would be unthinkable to take any drug which has not been tested on an intact animal. In fact, there is a case for having legislation to make it clear that a particular drug has only been possible for human consumption because of animal testing. This could be stamped on the packet, rather like a cigarette packet. With the medical advances, and the advances in animal well-being which have resulted from animal research, we should not lose focus on the overall picture. I urge the Minister to consider those in his deliberations in Europe.

Finally, one of the key issues is public engagement. It is a matter of great disappointment to many of us that, for example, the pharmaceutical industry, which has so much at stake in this country, and which contributes so enormously to our economy, has not been much more forward in trying to point out that it uses animal research. It is quite shocking that every university in this country does not admit that we have an animal house where we do animal experiments. If we do not say this very clearly to the public, if we do not make that message clear, then of course people will start to think there is something clandestine or something to be ashamed of in our research programmes. I really do not think that is true. Overall, from what I have seen in 40 years, the standards in animal care, improving as they are, are remarkably better than in almost any other jurisdiction, except for the circumstances in animal houses, which are sometimes not as good as they should be because of the financial limits in what we can provide for their housing.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, we are having a great debate, but can we please watch the clock?

Biodiesel

Earl Attlee Excerpts

Tuesday 18th October 2011 Lords Chamber

[Lord Palmer]

My Lords, I beg leave to ask the Question standing in my name on the Order Paper and, in so doing, declare that I am the unpaid president of the transport division of the Renewable Energy Association.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, in a recent consultation on the renewable energy directive, we proposed amendments to the renewable transport fuels obligation. These proposals included providing twice the financial support to waste-derived biofuels as will be provided to conventional biofuels through the award of two renewable transport certificates per litre of waste-derived fuel. Crop-derived biofuels will continue to receive one certificate per litre and biofuels that do not meet the required sustainability standards will receive no support.

[Lord Palmer]

My Lords, I thank the noble Earl for that lengthy reply. This is a very complex issue. I know for a fact that if the 20p per litre rebate is abolished, an enormous number of current users will revert to fossil fuels. Is this what the Government really want?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, Treasury Ministers confirmed at the 2011 Budget that the duty differential for biodiesel produced from used cooking oil will end on 31 March 2012, as was always intended. It is appropriate that support for waste-derived biofuels in transport will be provided through double rewards as part of the renewable transport fuels obligation. That, of course, has a sharper sustainability focus. By providing two renewable transport certificates per litre of waste-derived fuel, the UK is moving away from the guaranteed return of 20p provided by the duty differential for biodiesel produced from used cooking oil and moving towards an environment where the competitive market decides the price that will be awarded for each renewable transport fuel certificate. But each RTFC will still be worth around 20p.

[Lord Bradshaw]

Will the noble Earl turn his mind to the fact that the renewable transport fuel certificates, to which he has referred, are tradable assets? They have been often been of no value at all. Anyone investing money in this young industry of processing used cooking oil and other waste products face the possibility that they are being asked to invest money with no guarantee of a return whatever.

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, my noble friend is absolutely right. RTFCs were traded at a nil value but that was because of an error in the drafting of the original RTFO by the previous Government. That problem has been rectified and will not recur.

[Lord Davies of Oldham]

My Lords, the Minister is reading his brief excellently today to the great advantage of the House. I appreciate the fact that this Question probably should be directed rather more at Her Majesty’s Treasury than the Department for Transport. But the noble Earl failed to answer the crucial point made by the noble Lord, Lord Palmer. What is the Government’s response to the clear signal that many companies which are benefiting from this position at present and are pursuing the policies, which we would all endorse with regard to this sustainable fuel, are indicating that they will drop out from this position and return to fossil fuels unless the Government take a different view?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I answer for Her Majesty's Government and not for any particular department. This policy is following the perfectly sensible trajectory set by the previous Government.

[The Duke of Montrose]

My Lords, will my noble friend the Minister say whether tallow is currently processed in such a way as to qualify as a FAME biofuel? Is it in use as a transport fuel or can it be seen as such?

--- Later in debate ---

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, there is a difficulty with tallow because it can have unintended consequences. Tallow is also used to make soap. If we reduce the supply of tallow for making soap, palm oil will be substituted. That can have sustainability issues because the increased use of palm oil will result in deforestation.

[The Lord Bishop of Blackburn]

In the northern and very rural part of my diocese of Blackburn, the very high cost of diesel and fuel is inhibiting the stimulus to economic recovery. Will the noble Earl tell us what plans Her Majesty's Government have for helping such communities, especially in the light of the modest reduction in global oil prices?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, I fully appreciate the impact of very high fuel prices—I buy a considerable amount of fuel myself—but it is a little wide of this particular issue.

[Lord Hughes of Woodside]

My Lords, will the Minister explain to the House, for my benefit, as well as everybody else’s, what exactly his answer to my noble friend was, because I do not understand it?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, perhaps I will run over it again. The answer is that there is plenty of incentive from the issue of the renewable transport fuel certificate to suppliers to continue to supply biodiesel into the market. It is just a different way of achieving the same policy and complying with the renewable energy directive.

[Lord Soley]

There is a deeply worrying lack of clarity about the Government’s policy and, as the noble Earl claims to be answering for the Government now, rather than just the Department for Transport, it would help to have a bit more clarity. I would like to hear the Government’s view on the use of algae as a sustainable fuel. Research is very advanced in other countries and this country would be well placed to pursue it, yet he has not even mentioned it. Could we have a more detailed answer, even if it has to go in the Library at a later date?

[Earl Attlee]

My Lords, the noble Lord mentioned algae. I am afraid I was not aware of that possibility. However, suppliers could use that technology if they wanted to. The incentive scheme is not specific about what feedstock is being used. They can use whatever they want. If they can make algae work in a competitive environment, that is fine.