Railways: Franchises
Earl Attlee Excerpts(13 years, 1 month ago)
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Lord Kennedy of Southwark
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their estimate of the cost to the public purse of cancelling the contract award for the West Coast Main Line railway franchise.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, my right honourable friend the Secretary of State for Transport will make a full Statement in the other place at the earliest opportunity. The department will remunerate fully bidders for the direct and reasonable costs of putting together their bids and expects this cost to be approximately £40 million. The department expects additional costs from mobilising Directly Operated Railways, reissuing the tender and carrying out two independent reviews. The department will monitor these costs closely and be fully transparent in keeping the House informed.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
My Lords, it is very regrettable that the noble Earl has not taken the first opportunity in Parliament to say sorry for this fiasco. He should be truly ashamed of what has gone on so I invite him to take the opportunity to apologise. Why are the Government saying there have been regrettable and unacceptable mistakes and yet no Minister is accepting responsibility?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, some noble Lords express disappointment that a full Statement has not been made. Nobody asked for a full Statement. I was very willing to answer a PNQ yesterday afternoon but there was not one because we have the topical question today. As for ministerial responsibility, noble Lords know perfectly well that this was a highly regrettable mistake by officials, not by Ministers.
Lord Bradshaw
Will the noble Earl send word to his colleagues elsewhere that no new franchises should be let for any railway until full consideration is made of the high level of risk which the Government are seeking to transfer to the private sector? I believe that the private sector is unable to bear that risk because predicting revenues 15 years hence is nearly impossible. I commend him to the Mayor of London who is running the London Overground railway on an entirely different basis where the revenue risk lies with the GLC and the people running the franchise are paid to operate the railway efficiently but are not expected to take these unbearable risks.
Earl Attlee
My noble friend asks extremely good questions and that is the purpose of the Brown review which will look into the franchising system and report back to us by the end of the year.
Lord Adonis
My Lords, does the noble Earl agree, given the scale of the debacle we have seen on the west coast main line, that the responsibility of senior officials and Ministers should be examined in the forthcoming review? Is he aware that since last Tuesday the only steps that have been taken have been the suspension of three fairly junior officials and the establishment of a review under a member of the DfT’s own board, whose colleagues include all of the senior Ministers and officials of the department? Does the noble Earl agree that this is not a wise proceeding in public policy and it is probably not very moral either?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I do not agree with the noble Lord. The first step that the Government have taken is to set up two inquiries. The first one, headed up by Sam Laidlaw, will look at exactly what went wrong. If there was ministerial failure, no doubt he will identify that.
Lord Adonis
Sam Laidlaw is a member of the DfT’s own board. Is the noble Earl not aware of that?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, if there is anything wrong with the report, the noble Lord will be able to challenge me in this House on that very point. The first inquiry will look at what went wrong. The second inquiry will look at the wider franchising issues, as I said in response to my noble friend. We should be proud of our civil servants. I certainly feel honoured to be served by them. However, officials are human and can make mistakes, even big ones. Nevertheless, I want to make it perfectly clear that I retain full confidence in my department’s officials and I am more than content to account for their activities in your Lordships’ House.
The Lord Bishop of Exeter
My Lords, in the light of the noble Earl’s earlier answer about the award of other franchises, is he aware of the concerns that are already there about the award of a new franchise for the West Country? Can he indicate the likely impact of any review and the rerunning of this bid on the award of other franchises, including one that has a considerable impact on the economy of the south-west?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, it is a little early for me to answer in that much detail, but the process for the western region is being paused. However, the difficulty, of course, is with the west coast main line franchise.
Lord Davies of Oldham
My Lords, the House should congratulate the noble Earl on being one of two junior Ministers in the department who have survived. Is it not the case that the other Ministers who presided over this debacle scuttled just before the news broke, thereby denying the absolutely fundamental principle of parliamentary democracy that the buck stops with Ministers?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, that was a good try. We will have to see what the reports come out with.
Lord Butler of Brockwell
My Lords, the chairman of the Public Accounts Committee has pointed out that since 2006 there have been eight separate Secretaries of State—more than one a year—and since 2001 there have been six different Permanent Secretaries at the department. In view of that, are the Government surprised when things go wrong in a department?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, if that is the cause of the problem, I am sure that Sam Laidlaw will identify it.
Britain’s Industrial Base
Earl Attlee Excerpts(13 years, 1 month ago)
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Lord Adonis
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what is their assessment of the strength of Britain’s industrial base.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, this is a time-limited debate and the time for all speakers, except for the noble Lord, Lord Adonis, at 10 minutes and my noble friend Lord Marland at 12 minutes, is limited to six minutes. I remind the House that this means that when the clock shows six minutes, it means that the speaker has already reached their permitted time.
Lord Adonis
My Lords, I first congratulate the noble Lord, Lord Marland, on his new post. He earned great respect for his work at DECC, and I know he will do the same at BIS.
I do not think that there is much dispute that Britain’s industrial base is too weak and too narrow. If that were not the case, we probably would not be in a double-dip recession and we would certainly not be in a crisis with 2.6 million unemployed, youth unemployment of more than 1 million and national income still significantly lower than before the 2008 crash. It is taking us longer to get out of this recession even than it did to get out of Great Depression of the 1930s.
Without a stronger industrial base, we face a bleak future, and I think we now all understand the need to be bold and explicit about this. Until recently, the words “industrial strategy” were unmentionable in polite society. They were regarded as a hangover—in all senses—from the disastrous 1970s and British Leyland. However, as Vince Cable put it in his Imperial College speech last month:
“We can have an industrial strategy by default or design. Ignoring this reality is not a policy—it is just negligence”.
He continued, and I agree with this too:
“But just as bad would be to approach all our possible interventions in an ad hoc way, subjecting every policy decision to a short term tactical decision. There is not a serious and successful major company in the world that would proceed in such an unplanned way”.
I agree, but that is precisely how we have been proceeding as a country for a generation, and it has to change.
In my experience, telling stories is more powerful than reciting statistics when painting a big picture. So I want to tell four brief stories. Yesterday, I went out on a boat to see the huge new Statoil wind farm off the Norfolk coast at Sheringham Shoal. When I was not being seasick, I was amazed at the size and scale of the turbines: 88 of them, across a huge stretch of sea, each rotor 350 feet in diameter, generating enough electricity for 220,000 homes. Sheringham Shoal is only the beginning: the plan for nearby Dogger Bank, which I previously knew only from weather forecasts, is for 3,000 of these giant turbines, with construction starting in 2015 if the finance can be put together by the development consortium.
This is green energy in action. By luck of geography, we have a greater opportunity to develop it than any European nation besides Germany and Denmark. It is a huge, growing industry in construction, design and maintenance, yet in industrial terms, we are seriously behind the curve. The Statoil project director told me that barely a fifth of the construction and assembly work for Sheringham Shoal was done by companies located in Britain. The turbines are made by Siemens and imported, and the foundations, the offshore cables, and a good deal of the work installing the turbines is done by overseas companies with little or no physical presence in the UK.
I was told by Statoil that infrastructure is another weakness, in particular the absence of superfast broadband on the Norfolk coast and terrible mobile phone reception. As for the huge Dogger Bank investment, uncertainty over long-term policy for renewable energy is a bigger issue. So we are in the midst of a green energy revolution yet new jobs and investment will be delayed and/or go abroad unless we get our act together as a country. This needs to start, crucially, by ensuring that Siemens builds its proposed £210 million turbine factory in Hull, the fate of which is now uncertain because of Government prevarication on wind energy.
Story two. Last week I visited Airbus at Filton near Bristol, part of the pan-European operation which has made Airbus so brilliant a rival to Boeing with its A320s, 330s, the soon to be 350s and the giant 380s. As well as its success in China, Airbus has taken the competition directly to the United States with a new factory in Alabama. The expertise in designing and making aircraft wings at Filton is second to none, just as the engine technology at next door Rolls-Royce is second to none.
Airbus itself is a fruit of industrial policy which dared not speak its name in the 1980s, when state loans made possible the A320, an investment which has been repaid many times over. Similar state industrial policy is now equally imperative in decisions surrounding the proposed BAE/EADS merger to create a military equivalent of Airbus. The Government cannot just leave it to the market. The Government are the market in this case. The critical requirements are that the UK should be an equal partner, not a subordinate one, and that the UK’s position at the heart of any military equipment consortium should be assured.
We discussed all this at Filton. But just as pressing to Airbus were its skills requirements. Last year the company had 1,500 applicants for 86 apprenticeships. Yet despite this number, it could not recruit enough school-leavers with B grades or better in A-level maths and physics required for its higher level apprenticeships. Partly to tackle this it is sponsoring the proposed Bristol University Technical College which will specialise in engineering for 14 to 18 year-olds, but far broader action is required to supply its skill needs.
It was the same story when I visited Jaguar Land Rover’s state-of-the-art facility at Gaydon near Warwick last month. Again, a brilliant success story both in technology and products, including the new Range Rover. JLR benefits from a deep partnership with the University of Warwick, which my noble friend Lord Bhattacharyya has done so much to forge over so many years. But again, real concerns over skill levels, too small a pool of engineering graduates from which to recruit—JLR told me that by its estimates the UK is producing only half the number of graduate engineers that it needs—and too few would-be apprentices with the right skills.
Another key issue for JLR is its supply chain, too little of which is local or even British. Yet British suppliers are finding it hard, if not impossible, to secure the patient finance they need to expand and the new inward investors likewise. The Society of Motor Manufacturers and Traders published a devastating report in June specifying how the growth of supply chain companies in Britain was being constrained by access to capital and lack of sectoral and regional expertise on the part of the banks.
My fourth story is from my experience as Secretary of State for Transport in the previous Government in awarding contracts for new trains. This is a big potential source of jobs and value to UK plc which will get steadily bigger as rail travel grows and HS2 is constructed in the next decade and beyond. The state is the procurer of these trains. To paraphrase Vince Cable, its contract decisions constitute an industrial strategy by default or by design, and if it is not by design then that is pure negligence. The issue is simple: because of past negligence, 21st century Britain—amazingly—no longer has a domestically owned rail manufacturer. There is only one international company, Bombardier, which even makes trains in Britain. So, as Transport Secretary, I decided to have an industrial policy by design in respect of the £4.5 billion contract to supply the successor trains to the Intercity 125s. To cut a long story short, this is what we did: Hitachi, the most experienced high-speed train manufacturer in the world, now into the seventh series of Japanese bullet trains, won the contract and agreed as part of the deal to build a factory in Newton Aycliffe in County Durham, not far from Nissan, another great Japanese inward investor in transport manufacturing. The present Government stuck with the contract, the factory is being built and there will be more than 700 new jobs.
Now I had hoped that this would be the beginning of a coherent industrial strategy to build up domestic rail manufacturing. Alas, the present Government awarded the next rail contract for the new Thameslink trains to Siemens without securing UK manufacturing. This was serious negligence. If Siemens can build a wind turbine factory in Hull, and can even be persuaded by the Russian government to build a train manufacturing plant in the Urals in order to get state contracts, it ought not to have been beyond the wit and ingenuity of Her Majesty’s Government to have secured a factory in return for the £1.4 billion Thameslink order. The failure to do so was a major failure of public policy which must not be repeated with the forthcoming order for Crossrail trains.
So, my Lords, four stories. What are the lessons for industrial strategy? It is that the fundamental planks of a modern industrial strategy are skills, technology, innovation, procurement, infrastructure, finance, and supply chains. We need a strong and dynamic private sector aided by a strong and dynamic state in all seven of these critical areas. The state needs to act strategically, not tactically. It needs to act overtly, not covertly. In short, we must end the negligence of the past and get real about building an industrial base capable of delivering the jobs and companies that Britain needs for the future.
Crime: Drink-driving
Earl Attlee Excerpts(13 years, 1 month ago)
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Lord Sheldon
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what action they are taking to reduce drink-driving.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, to tackle drink-driving, we need to give the police effective tools and to streamline the enforcement process. Our plans include revoking the right to opt for a blood test following the breath test, as this results in delay and some offenders avoiding prosecution; re-launching the drink-drive rehabilitation scheme; streamlining the enforcement processes for the drink-drive testing regime, starting in 2014; and developing publicity about the consequences of drink-driving.
Lord Sheldon
My Lords, I thank the Minister for that very useful Answer that moderate drinking and then driving is generally reasonable. Spending on drink-driving must become acceptable; it is reasonable to expect expenditure on drink-driving.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, it is important to understand that my department is solely concerned with road vehicle safety; it is not concerned with the health aspects of drinking. However, of course, I answer on behalf of Her Majesty’s Government.
Lord Taverne
My Lords, 45 years ago, as a Home Office Minister, I co-operated with the excellent Ministry for Transport of the then Secretary of State for Transport, Barbara Castle, on drink-driving legislation. She very bravely ignored all the forecasts about a violent backlash from motorists and the law is now widely accepted. As Australia, New Zealand and most of the American states have now accepted random testing, which is by far the most effective way of reducing deaths and serious injuries, will the Minister advise the present Secretary of State for Transport to show the same kind of courage that was shown by Barbara Castle 45 years ago?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the difficulty with random testing is that it would not achieve the desired result. The object of random testing is to create an expectation among drivers but that would fail to produce results if not backed by raising the actual level of testing. This would not be cost-effective or a justified use of police resources in the current economic climate, because if most of these tests were random, they would prove to be negative.
Baroness Finlay of Llandaff
Can the Government explain why they have not considered lowering the limit from 80 milligrams per 100 millilitres of blood down to 50 or lower to bring us into line with the rest of Europe and most of the rest of the world? Why have they not considered a zero tolerance to alcohol, given that a survey by Brake showed that more than one in four people were driving the day after having consumed large amounts of alcohol and were almost certainly above the limit, although not formally tested?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, we have carefully considered this issue, and we have considered and reported back on the North report. The difficulty is that if we lower the limit to 50 milligrams, we would divert resources away from the cohort of drivers who ignore the law and drive quite often at double the legal limit. The police would be tied up with dealing with these low-level offenders and would not be dealing with the much higher-risk offenders.
Lord Berkeley
Is not the real argument that the Minister is putting forward that any reduction in the level to that of the rest of Europe goes against the total anti-Europe policy that we see across so many fronts, rather than trying to save a lot of lives on the roads by lowering the limit?
Earl Attlee
No, my Lords. We act on good advice from our officials. It is important to understand—
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I think I shall be having a chat with the noble Lord, Lord Kennedy of Southwark, about that matter tomorrow. It is important to understand that other European countries have a lower limit but also much milder penalties. We have a policy of a slightly higher limit, which is based on the Grand Rapids study, but with severe penalties for the slightest infringement. Our results are better than the European results. I can assure the noble Lord that it is not an anti-European policy.
Lord Avebury
My Lords, what advice have the Government received about the number of lives that could be saved by lowering the limit to 50 milligrams?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the only thing that my department is concerned about is saving lives by having an effective policy. That means correctly allocating resources and addressing the most serious problem, which is persistent unregulated drinkers who consistently flout the law and drive with very high blood-alcohol levels.
Lord Davies of Oldham
My Lords, the noble Lord has referred to the report of Sir Peter North. He stated that he thought that, if the limit were lowered from 80 milligrams to 50 milligrams, 168 deaths a year would be saved by such action. Surely, that is a compelling argument for the Government to consider.
Lord Condon
My Lords, does the Minister agree that there is merit in monitoring the impact of new legislation in France and elsewhere in Europe, which now requires motorists to carry breathalysers in their vehicles, to raise awareness of the problems and to encourage self testing by the more responsible motorists who may not know whether they are above or below the limit?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I am very much aware of the French policy. However, the difficulty is that, if a motorist has a means of testing his blood-alcohol level, he will then drink up to the limit.
Earl Attlee
He will, my Lords. The difficulty is that the motorist would drink more than he would otherwise and, therefore, would take greater risks. We do not want people to drink at all.
Baroness Gardner of Parkes
Having just returned from Australia, I have brought back two points about this message. I believe that random testing has a very good effect: the young change their attitude and if they are going to a party, one of them drinks nothing. My other point is that new drivers, who have the highest proportion of accidents, have a nil level for at least one year after they qualify. Will the Government consider either of those possibilities?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, on my noble friend’s last point, during the passage of the Road Safety Bill under the previous Administration, that proposal was suggested. The previous Government turned it down and I believe that they were probably right to do so.
Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe
My Lords, although I recognise that the major problem that we face is dealing with repeat offenders, does the noble Earl agree that the second group with which we have the greatest problem, and who suffer the most deaths and have the most accidents, are people aged under 21? Following on from the previous question from that side of the Chamber, would the Government be prepared, among the several initiatives they are looking at, to contemplate a programme of zero tolerance for the under-21s, so that we might perhaps achieve a cultural change and so get the benefit in future generations?
Earl Attlee
The noble Lord is quite right that young drivers feature disproportionately in the statistics. A difficulty arises in initially telling youngsters that they cannot drink at all and then, at a certain point, we tell them that they can. The problem is not so much youngsters with a little bit of alcohol in them, but when they have drunk far too much.
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall
My Lords, I am puzzled about an answer that the noble Earl gave to an earlier question concerning the impact of a 50 milligram limit in Europe. He appeared to imply that if the limit were that low or lower, penalties would have to be commensurately lower as well. I cannot entirely understand the logic of that. Why could we not have a lower limit and the same rigorous penalties?
Earl Attlee
The noble Baroness is absolutely right. She will be aware that Scotland now has the ability to set a different limit but it cannot change the penalties. If Scotland goes for a lower limit, the current penalties will apply.
Energy: Biofuels
Earl Attlee Excerpts(13 years, 1 month ago)
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Lord Kennedy of Southwark
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what assessment they have made of the impact of the ending of the duty exemption for biofuels and the implementation of the renewable transport fuel obligation on companies in the United Kingdom that manufacture biofuels from recycled food waste.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the Government strongly believe that the renewable transport fuel obligation—the RTFO—delivers effective and sustainable market-based support to the biofuels industry. The RTFO provides additional support to biofuels made from waste by awarding two renewable transport fuel certificates—RTFCs—for each litre of fuel supplied. The Department for Transport has committed to a review of the double-certificate scheme and support provided under the RTFO in 2013.
Lord Kennedy of Southwark
I would like to draw the noble Earl’s attention to the SME producers who recycle local food waste into biodiesel which has a remarkably low-carbon footprint. These companies have had to cope, in effect, with a 20p per litre reduction in their income because of the current value of certificates. It is clearly a difficult issue for these smaller companies, some of which have actually gone out of business. Will the noble Earl agree to facilitate a meeting between me, representatives of SME producers and the relevant Minister?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I am well aware of the difficulties being experienced by these SMEs with their commendable work in producing biofuels. I would of course be delighted to invite the noble Lord, and any other noble Lord who would like to come along, to a meeting with the Minister and officials—the experts who understand these quite complex issues.
Lord Bradshaw
Let us bear in mind that the people who recycle the food waste to which the noble Lord opposite referred are almost all very small businesses. They are not large corporations. They go round and collect fish-and-chip oil and similar things from shops, and of course they are doing a service in that this stuff is not going to landfill. Will the Minister refocus, please, on the plight of small businesses that are being very adversely affected? The RTFO certificates to which he referred are not compensating for the reduction from the previous scheme.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, although I agree with my noble friend’s analysis, he needs to understand that these fuels are also traded internationally in large quantities.
Lord Palmer
My Lords, does the noble Earl agree that, in reality, the RTFO is in a complete shambles, most especially because it is answerable to four different government departments? I ought perhaps to declare an interest: along with the late Lord Carter and others, I was responsible for persuading the previous Labour Government to implement the RTFO.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, several government departments may be involved but my honourable friend Mr Norman Baker is in charge of the policy. It is complicated, but I believe that it is a good and efficient policy that provides biofuels in a most efficient way.
Lord Teverson
My Lords, making transport fuels sustainable has to be a key aim of a low-carbon economy as they account, I think, for a quarter of all carbon emissions. What research are the Government doing to make sure that we develop sustainable biofuels for the future? It is such an important area for a sustainable economy for the future.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I do not know what research has been commissioned but I would like to inform the House of one of the difficulties with biofuels, which is some of the complex effects of indirect land use change. For instance, if you start using tallow as a biofuel then the use of certain types of tallow could increase the demand for palm oil, which could have effects on land use change far away from the United Kingdom. It is a complicated area. There is research into understanding this, but I am not sure what research the Government are directly commissioning.
Lord Davies of Oldham
My Lords, will the Government consider doing what several other European Governments are doing and separate bioethanol and biodiesel in the RTF obligation, thereby offering the possibility of avoiding exactly the problem he identified regarding what might suit large traders and significant commerce as well as the small businesses providing this very important service at a more local level?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the danger, which we are drifting into, is providing state support for small businesses. We must provide the regime with the incentive from the renewable transport fuel obligation, but we must be careful not to provide state aid to certain types of businesses.
Northern Ireland Act 1998 (Devolution of Policing and Justice Functions) Order 2012
Earl Attlee Excerpts(13 years, 3 months ago)
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Earl Attlee
That the draft order laid before the House on 11 June be approved.
Relevant document: 3rd Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments, considered in Grand Committee on 18 July.
Aviation: Policy
Earl Attlee Excerpts(13 years, 3 months ago)
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Lord Spicer
To ask Her Majesty’s Government when they will publish their aviation policy.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the Department for Transport published on 12 July a draft aviation policy framework setting out the importance of aviation to the UK economy and the Government’s proposals on how aviation can grow and deliver for the economy while meeting its noise, climate change and habitat obligations. The Government aim to adopt the final aviation policy framework next spring. Separately, a call for evidence on maintaining the UK’s international aviation connectivity will be published later this year.
Lord Spicer
Does my noble friend agree that aviation in general and Heathrow in particular are vital to the nation’s economic prosperity and growth, and that this is particularly apparent in the week in which we begin to host the Olympic Games? If he does, and if the Government do, why the delay in the consultation process about airports?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I agree that aviation is vital to the economy of the United Kingdom. My noble friend asked me about the delay. It is important that we get this policy right and that it can be sustained even with a change in government.
Lord Clinton-Davis
Aviation companies and trade unions argue that the aviation policy devised by the Government is based on indecision not decision. Would it not be hugely advantageous for the UK if we had a third runway at Heathrow, embarked on large-scale road traffic amelioration there and, at the same time, sought to develop a south-eastern airport? Would that not be an advantage?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Lord suggests that there would be an advantage in having a third runway. Of course there would be an advantage in having a third runway, which is why the previous Government supported one. However, we also need to bear in mind the interests of the more than 200,000 people who live in west London underneath the flight path.
Lord Trefgarne
My Lords, can the Minister confirm that business aviation and general aviation will continue to play an important part in the Government’s aeronautical thinking?
Earl Attlee
My noble friend makes an important point. At a meeting with my noble friend Lord Rotherwick, I agreed to take forward to my right honourable friend Theresa Villiers the importance of maintaining general aviation airfields.
Lord Soley
I can tell the Minister, as someone who lived under the flight path in west London for something like 30 years and represented the area, that in fact opinion there is much more evenly divided than he says. Why? Because Heathrow provides enormous levels of employment; some 170,000 jobs depend on it remaining a premier hub airport. For the sake of the economy and of jobs, will the Government finally make their mind up?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Lord is quite right about the number of jobs involved at Heathrow Airport. It is, of course, a major consideration that in moving one’s hub airport somewhere else you would have to move 176,000 employees—over time, I agree.
Lord Wigley
My Lords, will the Minister confirm that a central part of aviation policy is the question of pilot safety? Will he recall the representations made to him by my noble friend Lady Mar about the quality of air in cockpits? Will he confirm that since he refused to accept those arguments fairly recently, his department has received representations on behalf of pilots who are extremely concerned about this matter?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I can confirm that I have received numerous e-mails on this particular subject, and I will be very surprised indeed if the noble Countess does not pursue the matter vigorously on Report. I am looking forward to the debate.
Lord Davies of Oldham
My Lords, is not the Government’s policy since coming to office one just of dither and delay? They have taken one decision—to abandon the third runway proposal at Heathrow—but have taken no other constructive position at all. Is it not about time that the Government stopped looking for the long grass, or the long Recess, in which to run for cover on this issue, and for the Minister to say that by next spring—three years after this Government came to power—they might have some proposals to put before the nation? It is quite scandalous.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, it is not quite right to say that we have done nothing about Heathrow. First, we introduced the operational freedoms that will make it easier for Heathrow to recover from any disruption during the day without having any more unscheduled night flights. In addition, we have just announced the western rail access to Heathrow, so the argument that we have done nothing is not a good one.
Lord Bradshaw
My Lords, will the noble Earl tell his right honourable friend that there are a lot of capacity issues to discuss? There is a lot of capacity at Stansted, Birmingham, Gatwick, Manchester and Luton that is underused. Will she also make sure that, as well as taking the environment and regional growth outside London into account, what the passenger wants is also taken fully into account?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I am very grateful to my noble friend for putting the other side of the argument to the House. My right honourable friend the Secretary of State is well seized of these points.
Lord Brooke of Alverthorpe
My Lords, the Government have delayed this review and the Minister says that that is to “get it right”. Would he be kind enough to tell the House just what they are doing to get it right?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, we have published our aviation policy framework for consultation and we will release the call for evidence later this year.
Baroness McIntosh of Hudnall
My Lords, since the noble Lord, Lord Bradshaw, has raised the issue of spare capacity at airports outside Heathrow, would the Minister not agree that Stansted, for example, has had its capacity increased very considerably and that that capacity has not been taken up? Would he not further agree, therefore, that the airlines are very unlikely to have any particular wish to make Stansted a seriously larger airport than it is now?
Earl Attlee
The noble Baroness makes an interesting point, but I think what concerns people such as the noble Lord, Lord Soley, is having one very effective hub airport with connectivity right around the world. We issued our call for evidence on hub connectivity because it is such an important issue.
Local Government Finance Bill
Earl Attlee Excerpts(13 years, 3 months ago)
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Earl Attlee
My Lords, it may be a convenient moment to adjourn the Committee until Tuesday at 3.30 pm.
Northern Ireland Act 1998 (Devolution of Policing and Justice Functions) Order 2012
Earl Attlee Excerpts(13 years, 3 months ago)
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Earl Attlee
That the Grand Committee do report to the House that it has considered the Northern Ireland Act 1998 (Devolution of Policing and Justice Functions) Order 2012.
Relevant document: 3rd Report from the Joint Committee on Statutory Instruments
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the devolution of policing and justice in 2010 was a major step forward on the path towards the political stability that Northern Ireland now enjoys. Noble Lords will be aware that the prospect of devolving policing and justice was raised in the Belfast agreement of 1998, the joint declaration of 2003 and the St Andrews agreement of 2006. However, it was only in 2010, through agreement reached at Hillsborough Castle, that a clear timetable was established for the devolution of policing and justice functions to the Northern Ireland Assembly, which then formally took place on 12 April 2010.
It was necessary as part of the devolution process to make a number of consequential changes to the statute book in order to transfer a wide range of statutory functions conferred on government Ministers to the appropriate authorities in the devolved Administration. The Northern Ireland Act 1998 (Devolution of Policing and Justice Functions) Order 2010 made the vast majority of these transfers of functions. However, due to the timing of the 2010 order, there were provisions of the same parliamentary Session that did not take into account the transfer of policing and justice functions and these now require amendment. In addition, a small number of provisions were also either missed or now require technical correction.
The main purpose of the draft order before us today is therefore to make the necessary amendments to the statute book to complete the transfer of policing and justice functions to the devolved Administration. Most amendments are achieved through straightforward substitutions of references such as “the Department of Justice” for “the Secretary of State”. Where the function being transferred involves both policing and justice matters and excepted matters, such as national security or immigration, provision has been made to divide these functions between the Secretary of State and the Northern Ireland Department of Justice to make clear their respective roles and responsibilities. This follows the approach taken to similar provisions in the 2010 order.
I can confirm that the Department of Justice in Northern Ireland has been fully consulted during the preparation of this draft order and fully supports it. The same is true of Whitehall departments that may be affected. I hope that noble Lords will also support the making of this draft order. It may, in effect, make relatively minor, common-sense amendments to the statute book but this is in pursuit of the much more significant aim of completing the devolution of policing and justice to the Northern Ireland Executive, which itself has led to a level of political stability in Northern Ireland not seen in a generation. I therefore commend the order to the Committee.
Lord McAvoy
My Lords, I immediately declare that the Official Opposition are in support of this move. It is worth spending a minute or so on how we got here. As the Minister rightly said, the devolution of policing and justice was a huge achievement after long and painstaking negotiations. I was long enough in the other place to remember the commendable efforts of the Government led by Sir John Major in initiating this process. When Labour came to power, we knew how sensitive and complicated all these issues were. We worked with all parties and the Irish Government to ensure that the transfer of power and the creation of a new Department of Justice in Northern Ireland were stable and sustainable.
David Ford is doing a very good job in difficult circumstances. He has the full support of Vernon Coaker, shadow Secretary of State for Northern Ireland, in carrying out his challenging and important job. He and the Northern Ireland Executive have done good work in continuing progress in building peace. However, the violence of last week, most notably in Belfast, where 20 police officers were injured, shows that there is much to be done. Parading and areas of dispute around parades have a knock-on effect on community relations and the terrorist threat. Heightened tensions mean heightened security and we should all be aware of the desire of dissident republicans to wreck the peace process. I pay tribute to the Police Service of Northern Ireland for the courage and determination they show every day to protect and serve everyone in Northern Ireland.
Significant responsibilities on national security still lie with the Northern Ireland Office. The boundaries are sometimes blurred between what is national security and what is the responsibility of the devolved Administration and the PSNI. That is inevitable and part of the process. We all know that there are no cut-and-dried, easy solutions in Northern Ireland. In the attempt to take everyone with us, there will be blurred edges.
This order is an attempt to do something about that, and my contribution today will be mainly to ask some questions. I am not quite sure of one or two things. I apologise for that. I am new to this job and to studying the legislation affecting Northern Ireland. I hope to learn quickly enough. Article 7 says:
“(2) In paragraph (1) for ‘Secretary of State’ substitute ‘Department of Justice’.
(3) In paragraph (2) for ‘Secretary of State’ substitute ‘appropriate authority’”.
Is there a reason why these cannot both be allocated to the Department of Justice? In paragraph (4), can the areas of authority be defined a bit better between the Department of Justice and the Secretary of State? Can this section be explained a bit better? I do not quite grasp why the responsibility lies where it does.
In Article 14, there seems to be some dubiety about the status of the National Policing Improvement Agency. I am informed by our Home Office spokesman that the agency is being abolished as part of the Crime and Courts Bill. If it is being abolished, why is it mentioned here?
Apart from these questions, the Official Opposition fully support this move. It makes further progress in devolution in Northern Ireland and we are fully supportive of the Government’s actions.
Lord Bew
My Lords, I, too, support the order and I thank the noble Earl, Lord Attlee, for introducing it. I also thank the officials in the Northern Ireland Office for producing helpful explanations of some of the more technical parts of order. That is necessitated not simply by the fact there was legislation going through this place in 2010 but that other prior pieces of legislation such as the Policing and Crime Act 2009 had to be taken into account. So the logic behind the legislation is impeccable and not a problem at all.
I want to make just a brief remark about the general issue of the devolution of policing and justice. The noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, has already alluded to the fact that those of us who tried to make the argument for the Good Friday agreement in 1998 found that at the time that that was one of the most dangerous and weakest parts of the argument. I can remember leaving a television studio, having supported the Good Friday agreement, and receiving a call from the bowels of the Northern Ireland Office from a well-known senior figure therein congratulating me on the fact that I had actually avoided all discussion of the issue and had pushed it to one side. Although allowed for in theory in the 1998 Act, it was considered to be something for the far distant future—and I mean a future beyond the time we are now living in and acting upon. So it is quite remarkable that we have made this progress and that the parties of Northern Ireland have reached so much agreement about it. The logic of that progress has to be, as the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, said, that we consider the role of the Parades Commission and the devolution of those powers to the First and Deputy First Ministers. I support his request to the Minister that at least some thinking should begin on this matter. The question of timing is inevitably a difficult one for the reasons explained by the noble Lord, Lord Empey.
I want to add one other point. We are extraordinarily lucky in the person of the Minister responsible for justice in Northern Ireland. He was, as the noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, knows, the leader of the Alliance Party, which he led with such distinction for so long. He has his critics, of course, but in Northern Irish terms he is a very consensual figure—as consensual as you are going to get. The political circumstances that led to his appointment will not necessarily subsist for ever, and that is understating the case. In the context of all we have said about the almost magical nature of the improvement in Northern Ireland, we have to be aware that there are still difficulties, one of which is the possible personality of the next Minister for Justice. However, that is a mere caveat, and I agree that in general things have gone remarkably well.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I am grateful for the support of the noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, for the order. He said that he is new to the Northern Ireland brief. In 1998 I was the Opposition Spokesman for Northern Ireland, and I have to say that I enjoyed it, particularly when visiting the Province. I am also grateful to all noble Lords who have contributed to the debate.
The noble Lord, Lord McAvoy, asked me about Article 7: why should not all responsibility be transferred to the Department of Justice and why is there a split of responsibility for the policing of the airport? The policing of an airport involves both excepted functions such as national security and immigration, and devolved functions such as policing. This arrangement ensures that responsibility for key exempted considerations such as national security arrangements remain the responsibility of the Secretary of State while allowing the Northern Ireland Department of Justice to take full responsibility for those aspects that relate to the devolved functions. He also asked me about the interaction of the Crime and Courts Bill: whether it seeks to replace the National Policing Improvement Agency, why is that not referred to in the order. The Crime and Courts Bill is still passing through this House. We will ensure that it makes the necessary consequential amendments, but to legislate now would be the wrong thing to do.
The noble Lord, Lord Alderdice, talked about parades. I agree entirely with his observations about the difficult issues around the Parades Commission. The Government regret that community tensions spilt over into violence in the evening in the aftermath of the 12 July parade in the Ardoyne. The Government totally condemn all violence and we want to avoid a repeat of the violent scenes of riots in Belfast that have been beamed across the world each summer. We need to ensure that the marching season passes off peacefully. Violence around parades affects those living in the areas and does nothing to promote the good name of Northern Ireland. It is in everyone’s interests to find a locally agreed solution to devolving the regulation of parades. It was disappointing that the Northern Ireland Executive was unable to reach an agreement in 2010. I hope that it is something they can look at again and find a compromise solution to this problem that blights Northern Ireland every year.
It is not for the Government, however, to comment on the independent decisions of the commission. I am sure that the Committee fully accepts that the Parades Commission is an independent body that has to make arduous decisions about contentious parades. It has to take many considerations and all factors into account in an attempt to reach a compromise. These are difficult, demanding and sometimes nearly impossible decisions to make, and we stand by its impartial judgment, particularly given that there is no other mechanism to adjudicate on parades in Northern Ireland.
The noble Lord, Lord Empey, also talked about the Parades Commission. All that I can add is that I sincerely hope that agreement can be reached at some point. I agree with him that good news is coming from Northern Ireland. We have come a long way since I was previously an opposition spokesman in the 1990s. The noble Lord asked whether all of Article 9 had been excepted and what the position was in Scotland. The article partly devolves certain functions, such as bail and regulation of the Immigration Services Commissioner, to the Northern Ireland Department of Justice. This brings the legislation into equivalence with Scotland. He asked: why are we altering an Act that deals with excepted issues? Certain aspects of immigration, such as bail, are fully or partly justice issues, and should therefore be devolved. This arrangement again brings the legislation as it relates to Northern Ireland into equivalence with that obtaining in Scotland.
The noble Lord, Lord Kilclooney, talked about the support of the PSNI to the Olympics. This arrangement was agreed some time ago and is not a response to the failure of security firm G4S to recruit enough staff for the Games. However, I should also like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to the PSNI, and the RUC before it, for their assistance on international policing operations that I have seen and have very much appreciated. I should also like to give thanks to the work of the PSNI.
The noble Lord also got on to somewhat wider issues, which he is entitled to do, about discrimination by the Department of Justice in terms of consultation and advertising. This is a matter for the devolved Administration, which I am sure he will recognise. His comments are on record and can be seen by the relevant Ministers. If I have missed out anything, I will write to noble Lords.
Railways: Electrification
Earl Attlee Excerpts(13 years, 3 months ago)
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Baroness Seccombe
To ask Her Majesty’s Government what will be the economic and environmental benefits of the electrification of English and Welsh railways.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, electrification is expected to lead to a number of benefits, including higher acceleration and higher top speeds than diesel stock, greater capacity, and lower costs of leasing, maintenance and operation. These savings can lead to reductions in the long-term cost of the rail industry. Electric trains are more environmentally friendly than diesel trains and electrification should make rail freight more competitive with road, reducing environmental damage and congestion.
Baroness Seccombe
My Lords, I thank my noble friend for that Answer. I welcome the Statement on the electrification of the east Midlands and other lines most enthusiastically along with the upgrades to mainline stations and extensions to platforms. As the Prime Minister said,
“this investment will mean faster journeys, more seats … greater … links and a truly world class rail network”.
Does my noble friend agree with me that the specification for any future project should ensure that it is for the benefit of the many and not the few?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, my noble friend is quite ingenious. I have a feeling that she really wants to talk about HS2. I absolutely agree with her that future projects should be for the benefit of the many and not the few. However, HS2 is not predicated on a very high-cost service for senior businessmen paid for by everyone—a sort of Concorde on tracks. HS2 passenger demand forecasting is based on the current fare structure. It is also essential to understand that the west coast main line will run out of capacity if we do nothing. It is only a matter of time.
Lord Wigley
My Lords, will the noble Earl accept my very great appreciation of the electrification of the line through to Swansea and the south Wales valley lines? However, will he accept, in the context of the reply that he has just given, that the line from Crewe to Chester and Holyhead also has very heavy needs, particularly the need to offload freight going through to Ireland? Can he give an assurance that the recent announcement does not preclude progress on that line also?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the CP5 is not the end of the electrification process. We have announced what we will do in terms of electrification for CP5, but the process will go on.
Lord Bradshaw
The announcement this week means that more than 800 miles of electrification are now likely. That is good news for consultants, good news for planners and good news for those seeking apprenticeships. Would the Minister care to speculate on what would have been done by the party opposite?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I would hope that the party opposite, if in power, would have carried on with the process of giving us a railway system that is fit for the people of the United Kingdom
Lord Davies of Oldham
My Lords, the “party opposite”, of course, produced the plans and had commitments for half the money which is to be expended on these proposals by this Government, expenditure which did not take place immediately after the election because the Government themselves induced the delay. Of course, we welcome the Government’s intention to make progress on electrification. Although the noble Earl referred in glowing terms to the HS2 project, we also note that there is no commitment in these proposals to the expenditure for HS2 and we wonder whether in fact the Government are running a little scared of their Back-Benchers, as they have been recently in the other House.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I can assure noble Lords that the Government are not running scared of their Back-Benchers in respect of HS2. I would also remind the noble Lord that we are currently in CP4, which was devised by the previous Administration. The announcement is for CP5.
Lord Anderson of Swansea
My Lords, in the spirit of good will just before the Recess, may I say that the Government deserve full-hearted congratulations on the decision to extend electrification to Swansea and to the valleys? Does the Minister recognise that one of the major problems in Wales is the widening gap between the relative prosperity of south-east Wales and that of west Wales and the valleys? This decision will go at least some way to contribute to a non-extension of that widening gap.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I agree with the noble Lord. That is exactly why we have done it. I would also like to pay tribute to the efforts of the noble Lord, Lord Touhig, who skilfully put pressure on the Government in respect of the Ebbw Vale electrification project.
Lord Shutt of Greetland
My Lords, I commend the Government on pursuing these electrification schemes but it is quite clear that there are plenty of further candidates, whether they be Holyhead, Plymouth, Hull, or indeed the Calder Valley. Is the Minister saying that he now sees a rolling programme going forward for electrification? That is what we want to see. We have had bust, and it seems that we have got a bit of boom, but is it going to be rolling forward?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, we want to avoid feast and famine for the civil engineering industry. We are saying now what we will do for CP5. I have already indicated to the noble Lord, Lord Wigley, that we will continue the process in CP6, but of course I cannot at this point make any suggestion as to what will happen in CP6.
Olympic Games 2012: Traffic
Earl Attlee Excerpts(13 years, 3 months ago)
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Earl Attlee
My Lords, I think the noble Lord got slightly confused there. The Olympic route network—the ORN—has been established to ensure the Games family get to events on time. Games lanes will operate flexibly and be open to all traffic when possible. Motorists should avoid central London and, like everyone, plan their journeys at the Get Ahead of the Games website. We have comprehensive traffic management plans in place and will be focused on getting people to their events on time and keeping London moving.
Lord Lea of Crondall
I thank the Minister for that Answer, which means that there is no contingency plan. There is no plan B. I will give an example of a major artery, and I declare an interest shared with many thousands of people in central London: I live on Southampton Row, a continuation of Kingsway, where there is one bus lane alongside one Olympic lane. In other words, it is a no-go area. The Evening Standard reported last Friday that Transport for London said that everyone could use the bus lane in those circumstances, but local officials say that is not the case. Is there not likely to be great confusion, at least after 25 July, leading to gridlock—which is of great concern for shops, buses, taxis and everyone in that area, and in similar areas around London—with no contingency plan in place?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, the noble Lord suggested that there is no contingency plan. There are very detailed contingency plans. For instance, Transport for London has designated alternative Olympic route network roads in case the primary Olympic route network becomes inoperative. As regards the problem that the noble Lord describes, I suggest that he consults the Get Ahead of the Games website. My officials tell me that I have to say “Get Ahead of the Games” in every single supplementary question I answer.
Lord Addington
My Lords, would the Minister agree that complaining about having some traffic disruption during the world’s biggest event is a little like someone who has sat on a fire complaining about their backside burning?
Earl Attlee
My noble friend is absolutely right. The world is coming to London in 2012. Our transport system faces unprecedented challenges, and the Olympic route network is essential to ensuring that the transport system works at Games time and to making the Games a great success, as I am sure they will be.
Baroness Butler-Sloss
My Lords, has the Minister tried to work the Get Ahead of the Games website? I am totally in favour of the Olympics and of seeing the signs on the roads. However, I wanted to find out whether I could come into London on a particular route. If the Minister tried the website, he would find it very difficult to find the answer.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, when I last answered a Question about the Olympic travel arrangements, I used the Get Ahead of the Games website, and it worked. Sometimes these websites take a little bit of getting used to. I urge noble Lords to persist with it. It is a very good tool, particularly to see which Tube stations will be very heavily congested, and at which times.
Lord Geddes
Could my noble friend confirm, or otherwise, that while the House is sitting, Members of the House may use the Olympic lanes when coming to and from the House?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I suggest that that is an extremely unwise course of action. The policing of the Olympic lanes—the Games lanes—is similar to bus lanes. If the noble Lord thinks he can use a bus lane with impunity then he can try the Olympic lanes, but it is not something that I would recommend.
Lord Davies of Oldham
I find myself agreeing with the Minister that, of course, London has to offer a welcome to visitors from all over the world to these Games. The lanes are essential to the smooth running of the Games. Of course, there is already sufficient confusion and long tailbacks have been established on some routes and the lanes are not even in action yet. We must make every effort to make things clear to the public. Would the Minister strengthen the point that he made a moment ago that no privileged access to the ZiL lanes, apart from for Olympic officials, will be permitted and certainly not for Ministers of the Crown?
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I can assure the House that Ministers of the Crown do not have any privileges in regard to the use of the Games lanes, with the exception of when advised to use them by the security services, and that will apply to very few Ministers indeed.
Lord Hughes of Woodside
My Lords, how can the House have confidence in all the contingency plans here and there when, if we are to believe today’s press, a coach driver taking an Olympic team to the stadium could not find his way and took four hours to get there? He could not read a sat-nav and apparently was directed to the stadium only when someone managed to find it on their mobile phone.
Earl Attlee
My Lords, I expect all noble Lords have had a sat-nav moment. I certainly have in my driving career. LOCOG knows where all the Olympic coaches operated by it are on the Olympic network and, if something goes wrong, LOCOG will know. I do not know the full details about the coach to which the noble Lord refers, but I can assure noble Lords that LOCOG has a good system for managing the coaches.