Live Debate: Lords Chamber

Lords Chamber

Tuesday 2nd December 2025

(began 51 minutes ago)

14:36

Royal Assent: Public Authorities (Fraud, Error and Recovery) Act 2025; Property (Digital Assets etc) Act 2025; Animal Welfare (Import of Dogs, Cats and Ferrets) Act 2025; Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Act 2025

My My Lords, My Lords, I My Lords, I have My Lords, I have to My Lords, I have to notify My Lords, I have to notify the House in accordance with the Royal Assent Act 1967, that His Majesty the King has signified his Royal Assent to the following acts. Public Authorities, Fraud, Error and Recovery Act 2025. Property. Digital Assets is cetera. Act 2025. Animal welfare import of dogs, Cats and Ferrets Act 20 2025 and Border Security, Asylum and Immigration Act 2025.

And my Lords, I should like to notify the House of the retirement with effect from the 2nd of December of the noble Baroness, Lady Stern, pursuant to section one of the House of Lords Reform Act, 2014, and on behalf of the House, I

14:37

Oral questions: Cultural and heritage organisations: the right of consumers to cancel subscription contracts Lord Moynihan (Conservative)

should like to thank the noble Baroness for her much valued service to the House. For, first of all, question Lord Morgan. My Lords, I beg leave to ask the question. Standing in my name on the Order Paper. My Lords. Paper. My Lords.

14:37

Lord Leong (Labour)

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The government has consulted on how the new subscription rules will work under the digital markets, Competition and Consumer Consumers Act. This includes what happens when a consumer uses their cooling off right to cancel, and are carefully reviewing responses from cultural and heritage organisations. My officials have engaged directly with sector representatives and will continue to do so to ensure the final regulations reflect their concerns and support both consumer protection and organisational sustainability. sustainability.

14:38

Lord Moynihan (Conservative)

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My Lords, I've had a number of exchanges with the noble Lord, the Minister for which I'm very grateful. In considering next steps, will he take into account the worries expressed by charities, arts and heritage organisations about the inevitable decimation of their fundraising efforts? Would he agree? If you introduce the cooling off period set out in section 22 of the recently enacted DMCC immediately on signing up. This would allow thousands of people to join, say, art galleries, take advantage of the membership benefits of reduced admission fees to exhibitions over, say, a weekends holiday in London, and then allow them legally to cancel their memberships under the cooling off periods set out in section 22 of the new act, which will cripple their membership schemes as a fundraising model.

Currently worth hundreds of millions of pounds to charities across the UK every year. Would the government accelerate their consideration to exempt charities, museums, galleries and national heritage homes? Just as the government has exempted gambling contracts and society lotteries under section 22, in order to protect their fundraising efforts. efforts.

14:39

Lord Leong (Labour)

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My Lords, I mean, the noble Lord would know that under the Consumer Contracts Regulations 2013, I mean, consumers already have a cooling off period for distance contracts. So this is not new for the sector itself. The digital content waiver is long established, and most charitable memberships are service contracts, not digital content. We did consult on extending the waiver as that would reduce consumer rights. Having said that, gambling is excluded due to the existing specialist regulations.

My Lords, we recognise the concerns raised by charities and heritage organisations about potential misuse and will continue to work closely with charities as we finalise the secondary legislation.

14:40

Lord Clement-Jones (Liberal Democrat)

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Section 267 gives the government a clear ability to use the regulating regulation, making powers to recognise the specific circumstances for particular services such as streaming, charitable memberships and of course, the news media. My Lords, does the government intend to make the distinctions between those different sectors, my Lords? And if so, will the government make sure that those streaming services, charitable sector, and indeed the news media are protected? My Lords, from early termination.

14:40

Lord Leong (Labour)

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The noble Lord makes a very interesting point. Let's let's look at a policy. I mean, basically what we're trying to do is the unwanted subscriptions that we're talking about, which are accounts at £1.6 billion a year. So this is regulation or this act itself actually will save consumer something like £14 a month and some close to about £147 million a year. So it look, as it stands now under consumer law, all charities or other charities have to comply with consumer law irrespective of charitable status itself.

And no companies currently, especially the digital service organisations, have got the legislation that's currently in place. So that will stay as it is. And as far as the cooling off period under the new act itself is just an extension from distance learning to in person.

14:41

The Earl of Devon (Crossbench)

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Count for the concerns of

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privately owned heritage. The majority of members of historic houses, for example, are neither charities nor large heritage organisations, yet they're wholly dependent upon subscriptions and membership for the preservation and membership for the preservation of our nationally significant heritage. And I note my interests as a member of historic houses.

14:41

Lord Leong (Labour)

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as a member of historic houses. I thank the Lord for that. Now, as far as heritage organisations concerned, it's up to the individual organisation itself as to how their business model is structured. If it's a subscription model for contract of services, then it falls in scope of this legislation and the cooling off period will apply. period will apply.

14:42

Lord Waldegrave of North Hill (Conservative)

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For my noble friend and also welcome the tone of the Minister's thoughtful reply. As a proud member of the British Museum scheme, I do think there is a loophole, an unintended consequence of the good intention of the act which does need support. So may I assure the Minister that he will have widespread support in this House, if he can find a way through this problem? Yes. problem? Yes.

14:42

Lord Leong (Labour)

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I think the noble Lord for that. And this is precisely why the government is taking its time. We have consulted widely. The consultation finished at the end of February. We are analysing the responses and because it actually has got various complexities, it also impacts on HMRC as far as gifted is concerned. So we've got to ensure that we get this absolutely right and we will make a decision in time in due course.

14:43

Lord Watts (Labour)

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While we're on this subject, isn't it the case that our regulators and our consumer rights are letting Britain down? And when we in what we call rip off Britain, don't we need to look at regulation and also and consumer rights in the whole and come forward with a package to actually address the problems? problems?

14:43

Lord Leong (Labour)

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My noble friend is absolutely right. I mean, as it stands, all consumers are protected under the Consumer Contracts Regulation, which basically allows consumers to have that cooling off period if they subscribe to a service online. What this legislation does is to extend it to subscription in person, so consumers will be protected under this legislation.

14:43

Lord Grayling (Conservative)

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As a trustee of the National Portrait Gallery. Can I say to the Minister, this is particularly important because the Red book last week shows that in the latter part of this decade, DCMS budget is going to fall, which means that public institutions are going to be under greater financial pressure. The last thing they need, therefore, is an issue of this kind. And can I offer my support to my noble friend and urge the Minister to do everything he can to get rid of this anomaly? this anomaly?

14:44

Lord Leong (Labour)

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I thank the Lord for that. It's precisely what we're doing. We are taking our time to consider the consultation. We're analysing the response and we have to get this right. I mean, charities to, as I said earlier, have to comply with current consumer protection regulation. And now I think as it stands, I mean most charities because they do not perhaps don't understand the implication of the Consumer Contracts Act have been claiming gift aid, even though their membership may be for a certain provision of services.

So we need to ensure that HMRC and DCMS and all that work through the technicalities so that we actually are not caught in this loophole which the noble Lord mentioned. which the noble Lord mentioned.

14:45

Lord Bird (Crossbench)

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Can I just ask, are you actually asking for reluctant subscribers to stay with you just because you're a charity? I find that really, really difficult to understand because we have to think of that person who goes in and looks at something and says, I don't really want to be a part of this and chooses and they should have a right to do that.

14:45

Lord Leong (Labour)

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Currently, every consumer has got a right to do that under the current consumer protection. They have a cooling off period of 14 days to cancel their subscription. If the subscription is done currently by distance subscription under the new act, if the subscription is taken up or renewed in person. The cooling off period is extended to 14 days, so consumers will have the right to cancel or stay within the subscription.

14:45

Lord Parkinson of Whitley Bay (Conservative)

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My Lords, the problem has been well set up by my noble friend Lord Moynihan and just repeated admirably by by the Minister. It is a problem that was identified when this now act was going through your Lordships' House, and at the time my noble friend Lord Offord of Garvel committed to close this loophole through secondary legislation. Of course, the elections interceded, but that is now a year and a half ago. This is a pressing issue, as we've heard, for organisations that are beset by cuts to the DCMS budget, the rising impact of National Insurance contributions and much more.

So will the Minister commit to working urgently to make sure this loophole is not open in a way that will affect so many arts and cultural and heritage organisations that are loved across the country.

14:46

Lord Leong (Labour)

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I know a lot for that, and I can assure the noble Lord that myself and my officials are working to ensure that we get this right under the new subscription regime will ensure that in particular situations, including after the contract automatically renews onto a 12 month subscription term. Consumers have a 14 day window to cancel it, so should any changes be needed. This secondary legislation will commit itself and will also be published in the secondary legislation, that it does not commence until autumn 2026, so there's plenty of time for charities and heritage organisations to put their, I suppose, house in order before this regime kicks in.

May I offer.

14:47

Lord Lansley (Conservative)

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The Minister an opportunity to be popular by moving the regulations further on online subscriptions, so that all of those who are subject to automatic renewals do not have to click more than twice in order to end a subscription that they don't want to retain.

14:47

Lord Leong (Labour)

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I thank the noble Lord for that kind suggestion, and I'm sure my officials are sending me a box. I've just heard him.

14:47

Oral questions: Adults with learning and communication difficulties: online communications for access to public services Lord Cashman (Non-affiliated)