(4 days ago)
Commons ChamberRead Hansard Text Watch Debate Read Debate Ministerial Extracts
Will Stone (Swindon North) (Lab)
The Minister for Social Security and Disability (Sir Stephen Timms)
There should be no benefit decisions without explanation. Claim decisions should always be set out with the reasons. If a decision is unclear, or if the reasons for it are unclear, a further detailed verbal or written explanation can be requested and will be provided.
Will Stone
Will the Minister please outline how this Government will support young disabled people to have a positive engagement with the benefit system alongside work?
Sir Stephen Timms
My hon. Friend is absolutely right to press for improvements. We want to change how we think about jobcentres and the benefit system. Our youth work coaches talk a lot to disabled young people and are very keen to help more. Our reforms are making that possible, by giving better help and support, and by opening up new opportunities for disabled young people up and down the country.
Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)
My staff member, alongside me, does benefit applications, appeals and tribunals at least five days a week. She overturns 75% of applications in favour of the applicant, which tells me that there is something wrong with the system. I am worried sick for my constituents who suffer from mental and physical issues because of our 30-year conflict. There must be a system that protects my constituents and the people we all represent.
Sir Stephen Timms
Again, the hon. Gentleman is right to call for improvements. We want to see improvements in assessments, and he is probably well aware that we will shortly be publishing a Green Paper with proposals for reform to the health and disability benefit system. We will have something to say about this in that document.
Amanda Martin (Portsmouth North) (Lab)
Emma Foody (Cramlington and Killingworth) (Lab/Co-op)
Chris Curtis (Milton Keynes North) (Lab)
Baggy Shanker (Derby South) (Lab/Co-op)
The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Liz Kendall)
With your permission, Mr Speaker, I want to begin by saying that there has understandably been a lot of speculation about the Government’s social security reforms. I assure the House and, most importantly, the public that we will be coming forward with our proposals imminently to ensure that there is trust and fairness in the social security system and that it is there for people who need it now and in the years to come.
Almost 1 million young people are not in education, employment or training. That is terrible for their living standards, their future job prospects and their health. That is why our new youth guarantee will ensure that every young person is earning or learning. Our trailblazers, backed by £45 million of additional funding, will lead the way and will start in eight areas next month.
Amanda Martin
Each of those 1 million people is a real person, and I was contacted by a young man in my constituency who studied an early years education T-level and wanted to enter a desperately understaffed profession but has been struggling ever since to access a starter job. Being out of work while young can have a scarring effect that impacts people’s job prospects for a lifetime. Will the Secretary of State work to identify people at risk of becoming NEET and ensure that my constituents are supported to find meaningful work?
Liz Kendall
I thank my hon. Friend for her question. Her constituent deserves to fulfil his potential and live his hopes and dreams, like everybody else. We will be working hard with the Department for Education to identify those young people who are at risk of becoming NEET, to ensure that we put in place the skills training they need to get the jobs of the future and fulfil their potential, as they deserve.
Emma Foody
I suspect there might be quite a spike in the number of Geordies not in work today, given the cup final at the weekend.
I recently visited Azure, a charity in my constituency that provides learning and work opportunities, especially for young people with learning disabilities, and heard about the incredible work it does to provide young people with hands-on experience in a hospitality-based learning environment. Will the Secretary of State detail what more the Government can do to support charities such as Azure to provide these vital opportunities?
Liz Kendall
I congratulate Azure on its brilliant work. I believe that charities and voluntary organisations have an essential role in getting people on the pathway to work and success. I know from the supported internship programmes that have been run in my constituency, including through my local hospital, that young people with learning difficulties can, with the right support, get those jobs and get that work. That is what this Government want to deliver.
Chris Curtis
I am increasingly concerned by the rising number of young people in Milton Keynes who are out of work due to mental health issues, which I think is a key factor behind the nearly 12% increase in young people claiming unemployment benefits in Milton Keynes since 2024. Can the Secretary of State outline what steps the Government are taking to ensure that these young people have the support and opportunities they need to continue to improve their health, secure stable employment and live independently with better living standards?
Liz Kendall
I share my hon. Friend’s concerns about the number of young people not in work due to mental health conditions, which has increased by over 25% in the last year alone. The number of young people who are economically inactive due to poor mental health now stands at 270,000. That is why we are focusing on early intervention, providing mental health support in every school and recruiting an extra 8,500 more mental health staff, and from April we will be launching our youth guarantee and trailblazers to ensure that every young person is earning or learning.
Baggy Shanker
The Derby Promise recognises that children and young people are the future of Derby by bringing together businesses and organisations across our great city to give children meaningful, aspirational experiences, whether at iconic factories, or cultural or sports venues. We know, however, that children already face limits on their future career aspirations by the age of seven. Will the Minister outline what work her Department is undertaking to support children in Derby and across the UK from an early age to raise their future career aspirations? Will she also agree to visit Derby to see the Derby Promise in action?
Liz Kendall
I or one of my team will definitely visit the Derby Promise. I share my hon. Friend’s concern that young people are ruling out future careers at a young age. I met with the Careers and Enterprise Company on Friday, and they told me that children are ruling out careers by their gender at age seven and by their class by age nine. For the Labour party, that is not good enough. I hope the Derby Promise will be involved in the youth guarantee in the east midlands, led by the mayor, Claire Ward, because we have to unlock the potential of every young person if they and this country are to succeed.
Sarah Dyke (Glastonbury and Somerton) (LD)
Like young people in Portsmouth North, in Cramlington and Killingworth, and in Derby South, young people in Glastonbury and Somerton face barriers to their employment, education and training due to poor public transport infrastructure. Research has shown, however, that a 1% improvement in public transport time could support a 1% reduction in employment deprivation. What steps is the Minister taking, alongside Cabinet colleagues, to remove barriers to employment, education and training in rural areas?
Liz Kendall
The hon. Lady makes a really important point, and it is one that mayors and local leaders raise with us regularly, as well as families who are struggling and children and young people in poverty. That is why we believe it is so important to put mayors and local leaders in the driving seat of change, so that they can link up transport, skills and job opportunities, as part of our plans. My hon. Friend the Minister for Employment and I have been working closely with local leaders to ensure that happens, because if people have to get work, the transport must be in place.
Max Wilkinson (Cheltenham) (LD)
The Minister for Social Security and Disability was kind enough to come to the launch of the “What comes after education?” report by National Star and the Together Trust. One key finding of that report is that young people with disabilities face particular problems when trying to access work. The system is set up against them and workplaces are set up not to work for them, yet many of them want to do whatever they can to find meaningful employment. When Ministers are making decisions about upcoming welfare changes, I hope that report will be on their desks and that it will be properly considered.
Liz Kendall
Absolutely, and the hon. Gentleman will indeed be hearing more about our plans, which will include proper employment support to help people on a pathway to success. We also have our “Keep Britain Working” review, led by the former boss of John Lewis, Charlie Mayfield, which is looking precisely at what more employers can do, with support from Government, to create healthier, more inclusive workplaces and to guarantee that disabled people who can work have the same rights and choices to work as everybody else?
Jess Brown-Fuller (Chichester) (LD)
Much like the constituencies that have been mentioned, my young people in Chichester are struggling to find work and that is no more apparent than for those with learning difficulties, so will the Secretary of State join me in congratulating Together Our Community, or TOC, which provides work experience for young people with learning disabilities aged 18 to 35 to show that they do have something to offer the workforce? TOC is about to open its own café and centre for these young people. Will the Secretary of State outline what support is available for such charities and join me at its opening next month?
Liz Kendall
I join the hon. Lady in congratulating TOC; it sounds like it is doing fantastic work. On Friday, I was talking to the headteacher of a special needs school near my constituency, who was saying we absolutely have to ensure that work experience, careers advice and working with voluntary groups are all part of the package of support we put in place. If possible, I or one of my colleagues will certainly come and see the work that TOC is doing, because charities and voluntary groups are absolutely critical to this Government’s plans.
Helen Whately (Faversham and Mid Kent) (Con)
Back in the autumn, the right hon. Lady said
“we will not allow young people not to be in education, employment or training.”
How is it possible then that since Labour has been in office there are 100,000 more young people in exactly that situation?
Liz Kendall
The hon. Lady had 14 years to solve the problem and the Conservatives’ record is clear: nearly 1 million young people not in education, employment or training, which is one in eight of all our young people; and the number of young people with mental health concerns who are out of work has now reached 270,000. That is the legacy of 14 years of Conservative government, and it is a legacy that this Government are determined to change.
Helen Whately
I asked about what has happened “since” the right hon. Lady’s party has been in government: it is her Chancellor’s tax on jobs and economic mismanagement that are costing young people opportunities. Instead of taxing jobs, Labour should have been ready with a plan for welfare reform at the time of the Budget. They have spent nine months trying to cobble one together and still we wait. Why did the right hon. Lady not make any plans in opposition, and does she regret that?
Liz Kendall
Conservative Members had no plan. Even their own former Chancellor admitted that the numbers were made up. The only thing they put forward were proposals on the work capability assessment, which have recently been ruled illegal by the courts. They had no plan, but they had a clear record: leaving people behind, writing them off and putting them on the scrapheap. This Labour Government will turn that around and get people, and our country, on the pathway to success.
Mr Joshua Reynolds (Maidenhead) (LD)
The Minister for Employment (Alison McGovern)
The two-child benefit cap was introduced by the Conservative party 10 years ago. Its period in office saw child poverty rise to over 4 million and one in three of our children arriving at primary school not ready to learn. As soon as the Secretary of State and I were appointed, we got to work to establish our child poverty taskforce, as promised in Labour’s manifesto, and those efforts are ongoing.
Mr Joshua Reynolds
A BMJ study found that people in food poverty have diets with worse health outcomes including more fat, sugar and salt, so what conversations has the Minister had with the Health Secretary about how lifting the two-child benefit cap could improve diet and reduce costs for the NHS?
Alison McGovern
The Health Secretary and I talked about child poverty many times as we sat on the Opposition Benches watching the situation for our kids get worse and worse every year. The Member makes a very serious and important point about the wide-ranging consequences of poverty and, if I may, I would encourage him to submit the evidence he mentioned to the child poverty taskforce so that we can take full account of it.
Dame Meg Hillier (Hackney South and Shoreditch) (Lab/Co-op)
One in two children in my constituency live in poverty. There is a lot of speculation swirling around the excellent child poverty taskforce, which I applaud the Government for establishing, including that the cap could be lifted for under-fives, which would affect fewer than 20,000 households compared with the 440,000 households which currently are affected by the two-child benefit cap. Can the Minister reassure the House and the country that the child poverty taskforce is looking to support all children in poverty, whatever decisions it comes up with, and not just a small segment of them?
Alison McGovern
Yes, I can. All children matter. We are taking account of a considerable range of different policy options, carefully working through the impact that they would have, but all the children in this country matter.
Paul Holmes (Hamble Valley) (Con)
The Minister for Employment (Alison McGovern)
I meet regularly with Business and Trade Ministers. We are committed to working with businesses to ensure that policy is pro-employer and pro-worker. Boosting wages will increase workforce participation, helping employers fill vacancies and supporting us to reach our ambition of 80% employment.
Paul Holmes
With many Labour Members claiming that they care about young people being employed, has the Minister’s Department made assessments about the employment impact of the decision to introduce minimum guaranteed hours for students and young people who rely on the flexibility of being able to pick and choose their work hours, particularly those who are working in the hospitality sector, which is being decimated by this Government?
Alison McGovern
I think the hon. Gentleman is referring to the ban on exploitative zero-hours contracts, but if somebody wants a flexible hours contract, then that is a good thing, and nothing in the changes prevents that. In fact, since I have been at the DWP, I have found that employers have not had sufficient contact from jobcentres and only one in six employers think about using them. When getting young people a proper range of choices and jobs through the jobcentre, not nearly enough work has been done to serve employers better. That is what a real growth agenda looks like from DWP.
Deirdre Costigan (Ealing Southall) (Lab)
Lá Fhéile Pádraig Sona Duit—a happy St Patrick’s day to you, Mr Speaker, and all your team.
The disability employment gap stands at 30% and countless disabled workers end up out of work because their employers refuse to make simple changes that would help them to do their jobs. Does the Minister agree that the default right to flexible working in Labour’s Employment Rights Bill will help many disabled workers to keep the jobs they love? What else can the Minister’s Department do to help more disabled people to find and keep work?
Alison McGovern
May I first say how great it is to hear the beautiful language of Irish spoken in this Chamber?
With the increase in conditions that can be variable over time, the flexible working right will help people. The Minister for Social Security and Disability and I are working closely with disabled people’s organisations, charities and others to think about how we can build those pathways into work as we change jobcentres and improve employment support, ensuring that raising disability employment rates is at the heart of those changes.
Mr Jonathan Brash (Hartlepool) (Lab)
Liz Jarvis (Eastleigh) (LD)
The Minister for Social Security and Disability (Sir Stephen Timms)
We will be reforming the current broken system of health and disability benefits. We will bring forward a Green Paper with proper plans very soon, setting out how we will help disabled people who can work to do so, while fully supporting the most severely disabled as well.
Mr Brash
Work is good for us: it is good for our physical and mental health, and for our general wellbeing. When someone can work, it is essential that they are given all the support to do so. That said, it is also imperative that those who are sick, vulnerable or disabled are always protected. Does the Minister agree that striking the balance between supporting those who can work and protecting those who cannot work must be central to any welfare reform?
Sir Stephen Timms
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. That balance will be at the heart of the Green Paper that we are bringing forward. We will deliver proper employment support for disabled people, which has been taken away since 2010. We will deal with the incentives to inactivity that the current system presents. Of course, there will always be people who are unable to work through disability or ill health, and we are committed to fully supporting them too.
Liz Jarvis
My constituents in Eastleigh who support and help to care for disabled family members are desperately concerned about any potential cuts to benefits, including personal independent payment. They include Laura, whose son is registered blind, and Debbie, who helps to care for her disabled daughter and is herself disabled. Can the Minister reassure my constituents that disability benefits for people who are unable to work will not be cut?
Sir Stephen Timms
I am concerned about the level of anxiety and speculation that has been around over recent weeks. I am sad that that has happened and that people have been concerned, but the current welfare system is failing the very people it is supposed to help—the people it is there for. Our aim is to make the system sustainable so that it will be there for people now and in the future. When the hon. Lady sees the proposals, I think she will see how we will deliver on that commitment.
Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)
Can my right hon. Friend confirm that there will be an analysis alongside the Green Paper on the impacts it will have on poverty, employment and health?
Sir Stephen Timms
I can confirm to my hon. Friend that we will produce a full impact assessment in due course.
Esther McVey (Tatton) (Con)
When I was a Minister in the Department for Work and Pensions, working with my right hon. Friend the Member for Chingford and Woodford Green (Sir Iain Duncan Smith) on reducing welfare dependency, getting 1,000 more people into work each and every day, and delivering record numbers of people into work, the Labour party opposed us every step of the way. Can I take it that the Government’s recent conversion to reducing the benefit bill is only about conning the Office for Budget Responsibility into thinking that they will balance the books after their disastrous Budget, rather than because they really believe in it?
Sir Stephen Timms
I remember extremely well when the right hon. Lady was a Minister in the Department—it was very striking how the disability employment gap, which had been falling up until 2010, suddenly stopped falling and plateaued from that moment on. We will deliver a decisive shift to early intervention, helping people to stay in work, and renew fairness and trust in the system. We will provide personalised support so that those who can work can get the jobs that they want.
Lincoln Jopp (Spelthorne) (Con)
The Minister for Employment (Alison McGovern)
The introduction of universal credit and the policy choices of the last Conservative Government seem to have had some effect on people’s propensity to be in work. In January, the Department for Work and Pensions published data showing that of the increase in the incapacity benefits caseload since the 2018 universal credit roll-out, 30% of the rise in claims could be explained by foreseeable demographic change and the effect of the structural alterations to the benefit. That leaves 70% of the increase that we do not have data to explain, but the Office for Budget Responsibility and others have drawn attention to the structure of social security and the changes over the past decade. On publishing the analysis I just mentioned, I told the House that the previous Conservative Government took decisions on social security that
“segregated people away from work and forgot about them.”—[Official Report, 29 January 2025; Vol. 761, c. 366.]
I stand by those comments.
Lincoln Jopp
The people of Spelthorne are very hard-working and do not mind their taxes being paid for a safety net for the most vulnerable in our society, but they really do get annoyed when they see their taxes going to people who are scamming the benefits system. What assessment have any of the Ministers on the Front Bench made of so-called sickfluencer sites—social media platforms where people are shown how to game the benefits system? Have any of them looked at those sites? Are they a good or bad thing?
Alison McGovern
The hon. Gentleman will know that the Public Authorities (Fraud, Error and Recovery) Bill is going through the House at the moment. The issue that he has raised is at the forefront of the attention of the Minister for Transformation, my hon. Friend the Member for Stretford and Urmston (Andrew Western), who will take every step he can to deal with issues in that area.
Chris Vince (Harlow) (Lab/Co-op)
On Friday I visited Stansted airport, a huge employer for my constituency, and found out about the important work it is doing with the DWP and the jobcentre to get long-term unemployed people back into work. What work is the Department doing with organisations such as Stansted airport to promote good practice, such as that at Stansted and Working Minds in my constituency?
Alison McGovern
Through my hon. Friend, I give my thanks to everybody at Harlow jobcentre, because it sounds like they have their shoulders to the wheel in getting job opportunities for people who need them. When we arrived in the Department, we uncovered that there was not nearly a good enough relationship between the Department and employers. That is why we put a new strategy in place to do the basics well: there is a single point of contact and we are making sure that there is on-the-job training that is tailored to specific employers. We will be doing more to promote change in that area, but I thank everyone in Harlow for the efforts they are making.
Steve Darling (Torbay) (LD)
There continue to be unacceptable delays in processing Access to Work applications, both for my constituents in Torbay and across the country. This leads to fears among disabled people that job offers will be withdrawn by their would-be employers. What reassurance can the Minister give the Chamber that the Government have plans afoot to tackle that backlog?
Alison McGovern
The hon. Member makes an important point. We had a manifesto commitment to try to tackle the backlog. We have put more staff in place to deal with that backlog, but we have more to do, because it is important that disabled people are able to take up jobs that are offered to them. We need to make sure that that is a scheme that works.
Vikki Slade (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (LD)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Torsten Bell)
This Government have been running the biggest ever pension credit take-up campaign. In the latest stage, we are now writing to all pensioners who make a new housing benefit claim and who appear to be entitled to pension credit, directly targeting them and encouraging them to apply.
Vikki Slade
The rate of take-up for pension credit has traditionally been between 60% and 65%. If that rate were uplifted, it could take 400,000 people out of income poverty. In Dorset, the number of over-65s has increased by about 20% over the past decade. People say that their biggest concern is the paperwork they have to complete. The applications contain up to 225 questions purely for pension credit, and many pensioners would easily be able to claim for things like the carer addition through a slight tweak in the paperwork. What is the Department doing to simplify and combine those applications to make life easier for pensioners?
Torsten Bell
We are already doing a lot to simplify the process; it now takes 16 minutes on average to complete an online form, and 90% of people apply online or over the phone. However, the hon. Lady is completely right to highlight the fact that we must do more, including by simplifying the form. We continue to keep that under review, and I am always interested in ideas about how we can go further.
Danny Kruger (East Wiltshire) (Con)
When the Government scrapped universal entitlement to the winter fuel payment, they said that all 880,000 people eligible for it would get it through pension credit. We now know that that did not happen; they have got fewer than 120,000 new pensioners enrolled. More than three quarters of a million of the poorest pensioners have missed out on vital support this winter, so will the Minister tell us whether that was the plan all along—to save money at the expense of the poorest pensioners—or will he admit that he has completely failed in his duty towards the poorest elderly people in our society?
Torsten Bell
The lesson I have learned is from the last Government, who put up pensioner poverty year after year—it increased by 300,000 over the course of the last Government. This Government have run a pension credit take-up campaign that has seen an 81% increase in applications since July compared with the same period last year, and 46,000 more awards compared with that period. That is what a Government doing their job looks like.
Danny Kruger
That is 45,000 more awards than in the same period last year, but 880,000 people are eligible—that is a pathetic achievement, and the Government have spent millions of pounds on advertising this. We still have thousands of people waiting for their winter fuel payment, and the winter is over, so it is a little late for the Government’s next advertising plan. The fact is that we still do not know who has missed out, what the waiting time for those payments was, and what the effects have been on pensioner poverty or on hospital admissions, which have increased significantly for pensioners. Given the scandalous failure of their pension credit campaign, will the Government release all available data on the impact of the winter fuel payment cut?
Torsten Bell
We have already released significant data on that and, as I say, data was released just weeks ago showing the unparalleled success of the campaign to drive up pension credit take-up. Now we are concentrating on increasing support for pensioners right across the board, because the biggest disgrace of the last Government was where they left the health service that our older generations rely on. We are turning that around, day after day.
Andrew Lewin (Welwyn Hatfield) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Andrew Western)
Supporting everyone to find good, meaningful work and helping them to progress is vital for economic growth. That includes disabled people who want to work and contribute, but who are let down by the current system. Jobcentres have a key role to play in that, and through creating a new jobs and careers service, we will help more people get into work and get on at work, supporting our ambition for an 80% employment rate.
Andrew Lewin
I am fortunate in my community that we have an above average number of 18 to 24-year-olds, but when I was talking to the manager of the Hatfield jobcentre just last week, they said that the single biggest barrier to young people getting into work is their mental health, which a number of colleagues have spoken about in the Chamber today. Can the Minister say a little more about our objective of helping young people into work? Does he agree that the only way we will succeed in growing the economy is by helping those people overcome the barriers with their mental health?
Andrew Western
My hon. Friend is correct to highlight the importance of tackling economic inactivity in order to drive up economic growth. This Government understand the negative effects that unemployment can have on mental health, particularly among young people, which can impact future prospects. The youth guarantee will help address barriers faced by young people to ensure that they can access quality training opportunities and apprenticeships or help to find work, boosting their confidence and giving them the very best chance of success in the workplace.
John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)
A few weeks ago, I visited Salisbury jobcentre and I met Kirstie Reakes and George Thornley, who are helping me organise a jobs fair on Thursday 8 May. They could not have been more helpful. Their encyclopaedic knowledge of the local jobs market and businesses was impressive. Will the Minister congratulate them and thank them for the help they are giving me with the jobs fair in Salisbury Guildhall on 8 May? Will he also reflect on what incentives jobcentres could have to reach out to businesses and deepen their knowledge of local labour markets?
Andrew Western
The right hon. Gentleman is correct to raise the issue of jobcentres reaching out to local employers. We know that we have a significant issue with whether the jobcentre is the vehicle of choice to advertise local job opportunities. That is a long-standing issue that we are keen to address. I am delighted to congratulate his local jobcentre on the work it is doing to promote the jobs fair.
Mr Richard Holden (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)
The Minister for Employment (Alison McGovern)
Official unemployment currently sits at 4.4%, which is clearly much lower than the historic high of 11.9% in June 1984. However, today’s official unemployment level masks the legacy of the Conservatives’ recent period in office, which saw the number of people off sick rise to nearly 3 million, concentrated in places with employment rates well below the national average, creating a vicious circle where people are forced to leave the place they love for the chance of a career, and where those who are left do worse and worse. That is why, as part of our “Get Britain Working” reforms, we are building a new jobs and careers service that will be locally tailored and will help everyone find access to support to get a good, meaningful job and to progress in work.
Mr Holden
Compared with this time last year, almost 500 more people are on the claimant count in Basildon and Billericay. Almost 100 of those are under 25. How many more will have to be made unemployed before Labour Ministers listen to charities, GPs, supermarkets, manufacturers and care providers? They visited me in my constituency and said that Labour needs to think again about its catastrophic national insurance rise which, before it even hits in April, is already costing the jobs of my constituents.
Alison McGovern
We have a significant reform plan to make sure that we tailor jobcentre support towards the needs of employers, because there is still a significant number of vacancies out there that young people should be making the most of to start their career and progress in life. That is why we have a new employer strategy, so that the Department for Work and Pensions can serve businesses properly.
Neil Duncan-Jordan (Poole) (Lab)
Disabled people often face additional barriers when trying to get back into work. Does the Minister acknowledge that rather than freezing or cutting their benefits, we will need to invest in those people to help them back into work and to sustain them there?
Alison McGovern
Yes, I do agree. We see potential in every single person in the country, and many of those who have been written off and left on the scrapheap deserve a much better pathway back into work.
Markus Campbell-Savours (Penrith and Solway) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Andrew Western)
The Department works collaboratively with other Departments and with law enforcement agencies on investigations of benefit fraud carried out by organised criminal gangs. New powers in the Public Authorities (Fraud, Error and Recovery) Bill, which was mentioned earlier by the Minister for Employment, will strengthen our ability to tackle organised crime by modernising and enhancing our investigation powers, granting DWP officials powers of search and seizure, and ensuring that those who defraud the public sector face appropriate consequences.
Markus Campbell-Savours
I welcome the new powers in the fraud Bill, and note the huge increase in pension credit fraud in recent years. Can the Minister explain how capital fraud and fraud in which recipients stay out of the country for longer than the rules require, which together account for 50% of all pension credit fraud, will be targeted under the new rules?
Andrew Western
My hon. Friend is right to raise this issue. The eligibility verification measure in the new Bill will do just that, providing a crucial data feed to help us identify fraud that relates to pension credit as well as to universal credit and employment and support allowance. This will flag up claimants who are potentially in breach of eligibility under capital and abroad criteria, so that we can start to lower the unacceptable level of fraud and protect the public purse.
Luke Akehurst (North Durham) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Torsten Bell)
Our commitment to the triple lock throughout this Parliament means that spending on the state pension is set to rise by £31 billion a year. Individuals are set to see increases of up to £1,900 a year, benefiting 21,000 pensioners in North Durham and 12 million people in Britain as a whole.
Luke Akehurst
I welcome the fact that the Government are not only protecting the triple lock for every pensioner in the country but tackling the biggest problems for pensioners by uprating pension credit by more than the rate of inflation, encouraging a higher take-up of pension credit and substantially increasing funding for our NHS. Can the Minister tell me how many pensioners in North Durham currently claim pension credit, and how many are entitled to it but do not claim it and could benefit from this increase?
Torsten Bell
My hon. Friend is right to draw attention to the importance of the 4.1% increase in pension credit that will take place in just a few weeks’ time, and I can tell him that about 3,000 people are claiming pension credit in North Durham. He is also right to mention the more than £25 billion that the Government are investing in the NHS. The unacceptable state of the health service is the biggest betrayal of older generations by the Conservative party, and we are going to change that.
Gareth Snell (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Lab/Co-op)
The Minister for Employment (Alison McGovern)
In the year to September 2024, 4.7% of working-age people were unemployed in Stoke-on-Trent, but as I said earlier, that often masks bigger problems relating to economic inactivity, frequently caused by ill health. We propose to join up work, health and skills support, and to ensure that local areas throughout England have “Get Britain Working” plans so that every part of the country has a plan to grow.
Gareth Snell
It is clear that the Government are making a serious attempt to remove the barriers preventing people with mental health conditions from entering work. May I issue an invitation to the Minister, and commend to her the work of the combined healthcare trust in Stoke-on-Trent and its peer support mentors? These are people who have overcome mental health challenges and now work with other people struggling with their own mental health to build confidence and opportunity. Whatever plan the Government introduce, work of this kind should be central to it, and I think that if they came to see it, they would be very impressed.
Alison McGovern
I would love to come to Stoke—[Interruption.] There are so many football-related jokes that I could make at this point, but I will not trouble the House. I would love to come to Stoke, and not just on a wet Tuesday night.
My hon. Friend makes the case for exactly the strategy that underpins our reform, which is to join up health and work support. I have seen in my own constituency the power of peer mentors for mental health conditions, and I would love to come and see the brilliant work that my hon. Friend has described.
David Williams (Stoke-on-Trent North) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Liz Kendall)
Many disabled people want to work but were written off and failed by the last Government. Our work aspirations survey of health and disability claimants found that a third wanted to work at some point in the future if their health improved or the right job was available, and 200,000 said that they would work now if they got the right support. This Government will ensure that disabled people who can work have the same rights and chances to work as everybody else, because that principle of equality is what this Labour Government are for.
David Williams
Christopher, a resident of Talke in my constituency, was badly let down by a flawed PIP assessment—one that lacked basic humanity and empathy. With reports of welfare reforms in the media, he is now deeply worried about what the future holds. What steps will be taken to ensure that people like Christopher are treated with fairness and dignity, and given the support that they need?
Liz Kendall
I say to my hon. Friend and his constituent that treating people with dignity and respect is absolutely at the heart of this Government’s plans. Having been a constituency MP for 14 long years under the Conservatives, I know that there will always be people who cannot work because of the severity of their disability or illness, but I also meet—day in, day out—disabled people who are denied the chance to work, for many different reasons. That is what we want to put right, to ensure that the social security system is there for those who need it, and not just now but for years to come.
Sir Jeremy Wright (Kenilworth and Southam) (Con)
As the Secretary of State looks at reform, is she considering the PIP reassessment process? For people whose conditions will not get any better, would it not be sensible to relieve them of the burden of that reassessment process unless they wish to be reassessed? That would be less distressing for them, it would save money in the system, and it would allow people who do need reassessment to be reassessed faster.
Liz Kendall
I agree with a lot of what the right hon. Gentleman says. Patience is never my greatest virtue, but I ask him and the House to be patient and to look at the full proposals, which we will put forward imminently.
Josh MacAlister (Whitehaven and Workington) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Andrew Western)
The Department supports care leavers aged 16 to 24 through an extensive range of interventions to help them into employment. For example, care leavers who start an apprenticeship are signposted to a £3,000 bursary from their training provider, and they can still receive universal credit if they are on a low income. More broadly, under the new youth guarantee, all young people aged 18 to 21 in England, including care leavers, will have access to support to enter employment, education or training opportunities.
Josh MacAlister
Some 39% of care-experienced young people are not in education, employment or training—three times the average rate—and that is costing the UK over £145 million a year in lost tax revenue alone. We cannot achieve the ambition of getting Britain working unless we unlock the potential of this amazing group of young people. Do Ministers agree that we need to take bold, imaginative action to radically improve the number going into work?
Andrew Western
My hon. Friend is absolutely correct to highlight those statistics. The number of care leavers not in education, employment or training is absolutely unacceptable, and he will be stunned to hear that I am in full agreement with him.
Jessica Toale (Bournemouth West) (Lab)
The Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Liz Kendall)
This week is Sign Language Week, and my right hon. Friend the Minister for Social Security and Disability will be speaking in the Backbench Business debate to mark Sign Language Week on Thursday.
This week is also Neurodiversity Celebration Week. Neurodivergent people face particular barriers to employment, with less than one in three in work. Everyone deserves the chance to fulfil their potential, so we recently launched a new independent panel to advise us on these issues. The experts on the panel, including neurodivergent people themselves, will present their recommendations to us later this year, and I very much look forward to their findings.
Jessica Toale
Last week I visited the Crumbs project in my constituency. Crumbs provides training for people with disabilities and mental health conditions to get the professional skills they need to go into the hospitality industry, and the personal skills they need to live independently, and 90% of its trainees move into employment. Given the Secretary of State’s commitment to bringing people with long-term health conditions and disabilities back into work, what more support can she give to successful programmes such as Crumbs?
Liz Kendall
I welcome the work that Crumbs is doing in my hon. Friend’s constituency. I want to ensure not only that we overhaul our jobcentres, have a new youth guarantee, and join up work, health and skills support through our “Get Britain Working” plan; but, crucially, that our jobcentres and others work closely with organisations such as Crumbs, because only by working together will we get the right support to help people on the pathway to work and to success.
Helen Whately (Faversham and Mid Kent) (Con)
We heard yesterday that the Cabinet had not yet seen the welfare plan that the right hon. Lady is apparently due to announce tomorrow. Given all the media briefings, the apprehension of disabled people and the growing number of people not working, none of us would want to see that delayed. Can she assure us that she has got collective agreement so that she can announce her plan here in this Chamber tomorrow?
Liz Kendall
The hon. Lady will have to show a little patience. She talks about plans, but we have seen her and the shadow Chancellor, the right hon. Member for Central Devon (Mel Stride), making claims in various newspapers about their plan—but there never was a plan. The former Chancellor, the right hon. Member for Godalming and Ash (Jeremy Hunt), actually admitted that during the election when he said that the numbers had already been scored. The only thing that the previous Government ever put forward was ruled illegal by the courts. They had 14 years to put this right; this Government will act.
Helen Whately
I listened hard to the right hon. Lady’s answer but, given everything I heard, I still do not think she has the support of Cabinet colleagues, with less than 24 hours to go. It was a no.
There is never a good time for millions of people to be out of work, but as the world gets more dangerous we can afford neither the benefits bill nor the waste of human potential. Given the opposition of the right hon. Lady’s party to welfare reform, can she assure me that her planned reforms will grasp the nettle and bring the benefits bill down?
Liz Kendall
That from a member of a Government who left one in 10 working-age people on a sickness and disability benefit, one in eight young people not in education, employment or training, and 2.8 million people out of work due to long-term sickness. That was terrible for them—for their life chances, incomes and health—and terrible for taxpayers who are paying for an ever-spiralling bill for the cost of failure. Unlike the Conservative Government, who wrote people off and then blamed them to get a cheap headline, we will take decisive action, get people into work and get this country on a pathway to success.
Mr Jonathan Brash (Hartlepool) (Lab)
Liz Kendall
We will never get this country growing again unless we provide good jobs, hope and opportunity in every part of the country, including my hon. Friend’s constituency. He knows that his region has one of the highest levels of people not in education, employment or training. Our youth guarantee will ensure that every young person is earning or learning, and I look forward to working with him to deliver that on the ground.
Steve Darling (Torbay) (LD)
Will the Secretary of State confirm that those people in receipt of disability benefits who profoundly cannot work will not face a cut in their benefits?
Liz Kendall
I say to the hon. Gentleman, just as my right hon. Friend the Minister for Social Security and Disability has said, that we know there will always be people who cannot work because of the nature of their disability or health condition, and those people will be protected.
Jim Dickson (Dartford) (Lab)
Liz Kendall
Yes, we are not only working together closely to expand the number of apprenticeships for young people, but looking at changing the rules so that they do not always have to have the basic GCSE maths and English to get a new foundation apprenticeships. I think we need to go further by working closely with schools. On Friday, in my own constituency, I visited a school that is looking closely at the risk factors for becoming NEET—not in education, employment or training—which is where we really need to take action.
Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)
Liz Kendall
Absolutely. The child poverty strategy is looking widely at how we can: increase people’s incomes, including through work; reduce costs; ensure families are more financially resilient, looking at issues like debt and savings; and give all children the best start in life, no matter their background or where they live.
Jenny Riddell-Carpenter (Suffolk Coastal) (Lab)
The Minister for Employment (Alison McGovern)
JobsPlus pilots were launched in July 2024 and are helping to address employment barriers for the residents of 10 social housing communities. We plan to publish our initial evaluation in the summer, which will help us to understand more about how this type of innovative community-led employment might support our vision to get Britain working. I look forward to working with all Members, especially my hon. Friend, on the next steps for this project.
Bradley Thomas (Bromsgrove) (Con)
Alison McGovern
I absolutely join the hon. Member in thanking all the organisations he mentions. If he could link them up with his local jobcentre, we can help make the connection between young people who have suffered disadvantage and that really positive community support that is available for them in his constituency. That would be very helpful.
Mr Tanmanjeet Singh Dhesi (Slough) (Lab)
Alison McGovern
As my hon. Friend mentions, there are important opportunities in Slough that the young people growing up there need to be able to take advantage of. That is why we launched our youth guarantee as part of our plan to get Britain working. It will be there for 18 to 21-year-olds. Again, I encourage my hon. Friend to work with his local jobcentre in Slough as we improve the support available for young people.
Vikki Slade (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (LD)
The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions (Andrew Western)
As the hon. Lady may know, the Department recently consulted on a range of proposals for future improvements to the child maintenance service, such as how we can protect people from financial abuse and better support victims of domestic abuse. I am obviously not familiar with the specifics of the case she references, but I would be more than happy to follow up if she writes to me about it.
Dr Simon Opher (Stroud) (Lab)
The Parliamentary Secretary to the Treasury (Torsten Bell)
My hon. Friend is absolutely right to highlight both the progress that has been made and the hard work of the voluntary sector, including citizens advice bureaux across the country. We must continue recent progress, and we shall certainly do so. I would like to highlight that our support for pensioners goes far wider, including the 4.1% increase to the state pension and to the level of pension credit, as my hon. Friend mentioned, in just a few weeks’ time.
Julia Lopez (Hornchurch and Upminster) (Con)
At a constituency meeting last week, I was told that small businesses are starting to ask employees to go self-employed as they cannot otherwise keep roles open because of forthcoming national insurance contribution rises and extra employment laws. Will the Department watch out for this trend in its data, in case it was not the Government’s intention to make workers less secure with these new taxes and more regulations?
Alison McGovern
Since we took office, we have published research, reports, data and other bits of information that the Department for Work and Pensions had previously been sitting on. The hon. Lady can rest assured that we monitor employment trends and are keen to ensure that the DWP is far more transparent about data than it has been.
Noah Law (St Austell and Newquay) (Lab)
The Minister for Social Security and Disability (Sir Stephen Timms)
My hon. Friend sets out exactly the balance that we need to strike with our plan: proper employment support on the one hand, which has not been available in the past, and dealing with work disincentives in the current system on the other. When he sees the proposals shortly, I think he will welcome the measures we are planning.
Kirsty Blackman (Aberdeen North) (SNP)
Can the Minister reassure people who have had an amputation or have schizophrenia, terminal cancer or uncontrolled epilepsy that tomorrow’s announcements will not mean a cut in their social security?
Sir Stephen Timms
As we have already made clear today, we are absolutely determined to protect those who need to be protected in the proposals we are bringing forward. I think the hon. Lady will welcome and be reassured by the proposals when she sees them.
Sarah Smith (Hyndburn) (Lab)
There are currently thousands of disabled children and adults across the country, including in Hyndburn and Haslingden, who cannot access their childhood tax funds. How is the Minister working to address this issue with the Ministry of Justice to help families to gain quick and easy access to these funds? Will he give further consideration to increasing the scope of the DWP appointee scheme to cover child tax funds and junior individual savings accounts up to £5,000?
Sir Stephen Timms
I welcome my hon. Friend’s interest in this subject, which she and I have met to discuss. She is absolutely right: there should be no barriers to young people and their families accessing these funds. The Ministry of Justice has made some progress already. I do not think the answer will be altering the DWP appointee scheme, but there will be further progress to make things easier.
Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)
What is the Minister’s estimate for the number of pensioners who would qualify for pension credit but have not applied in North Durham?
Torsten Bell
I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his question. The Department for Work and Pensions does not produce data at a constituency level, but I will tell him the answer to his question at a national level: much lower than it was before this Government came into office.
Perran Moon (Camborne and Redruth) (Lab)
Supporting people back into work is not only the right thing to do for the UK economy, but the fair and compassionate thing to do for people stuck in the welfare system. However, over the past few days, a significant number of people have contacted my constituency office with profound concerns about what they have heard and read in the press. Does the Minister agree that by removing the culture of fear and creating a nurturing environment, we can help people back into work and give them the support they need not just to survive but to thrive?
Sir Stephen Timms
My hon. Friend is absolutely right. We are determined to provide proper support, which existed in the past, but disappeared after 2010. We want to provide that support again because so many people would thrive if they had it. At the moment there are 200,000 people out of work on health and disability grounds who would love to be in a job if they just had the support. We will provide it.
Siân Berry (Brighton Pavilion) (Green)
For weeks, the Government’s active trailing of welfare cuts has generated genuine fear. Disabled people in Brighton Pavilion are writing to me in terror. Will the Secretary of State apologise for this and reassure the public that benefit changes will not take place this calendar year or without parliamentary votes in this House?
Sir Stephen Timms
First, I recognise that there has been a good deal of anxiety, and I regret that. But there will not be long to wait. The proposals will soon become clear. The hon. Lady will welcome a great deal of the changes that we want to make.
Rachael Maskell (York Central) (Lab/Co-op)
As a human rights city, York believes that disabled people should be at the heart of all decision making. How have disabled people formed the Minister’s views in making these changes? Have they been at the heart of the decision making?
Sir Stephen Timms
My hon. Friend is right. Our manifesto has a firm commitment that the views and voices of disabled people should be at the heart of everything that we do. Over the past week I have had discussions with a number of disabled people’s fora. When we come forward with our proposals shortly, we will consult extensively with disabled people and their organisations about the right way forward.
Mr Andrew Snowden (Fylde) (Con)
The Government announced billions of cuts to the Department; then, over recent days, Ministers have made U-turn after U-turn, and in the media round over the weekend were spinning out of control. Is there anything meaningful left to announce from the Secretary of State’s original welfare plans?
Liz Kendall
The Conservative party, which left a broken welfare system that is failing the people who depend on it and taxpayers, had 14 years to put it right. We know what their legacy is. Hon. Members will see the proposals soon, but we will not shy away from the decisions that we believe are right to give opportunities to people who can work, security for those who cannot, and to get the welfare bill on a sustainable footing.
Melanie Onn (Great Grimsby and Cleethorpes) (Lab)
Today’s Telegraph has done a right hatchet job on the most socially deprived ward in my constituency. The people of the East Marsh are sick and tired of journalists taking a day trip to write their poverty porn stories about people who are proud and keen to play their part in society in every way that they can. They have sought to pit older people against younger people, highlighting the NEET record. The young people in that ward are as keen to work as anyone else, but they need the jobs to do it. What discussions is the Secretary of State having about that?
Liz Kendall
There will be no greater representative for her constituents than my hon. Friend, who rightly said that they want the right chances, choices and support to work, as anyone else does. That is why we are creating good jobs in every part of the country through our modern industrial strategy. We are improving the quality of work and making work pay through our Employment Rights Bill. Our get Britain working plan will give the work, skills and—
Mr Speaker
Order. It is topical questions. I have a few Members still get in.
Mr Peter Bedford (Mid Leicestershire) (Con)
It is right that the welfare system supports those with disabilities. However, does the Secretary of State agree that social media influencers who are teaching people to game the Motability system in order to get free vehicles is a disgrace? If so, what does she intend to do about it?
Andrew Western
The hon. Gentleman will be aware that this issue falls under the umbrella of wider fraud. We inherited an appalling level of fraud in the welfare system under the previous Government. Our fraud Bill goes some way to tackling that, as part of a broader package of £8.6 billion—the largest ever package for tackling fraud.
Steve Witherden (Montgomeryshire and Glyndŵr) (Lab)
Given that nearly half of families in poverty have a disabled member and that without PIP an additional 700,000 disabled households could be pushed into poverty, I am concerned that the rumoured cuts will not help people into work but instead drive them further into destitution. What assurances can the Minister give me that the voices of disabled people have been heard and reflected on in the upcoming Green Paper?
Sir Stephen Timms
I give my hon. Friend a firm assurance that not only have we been listening, but we shall continue to listen once the proposals have been published.
Jim Allister (North Antrim) (TUV)
I have previously urged the Secretary of State to liaise with the Department for Communities in Northern Ireland over its pitiful pursuit of benefit fraud. In the same vein, is the Minister aware that of the 39,000 new vehicles registered in Northern Ireland last year, 18,000 were under the Motability scheme? Is that not indicative of appalling abuse of that scheme? Will he raise with the Department for Communities what it is doing about that?
Sir Stephen Timms
The Motability scheme is highly valued by disabled people around the UK. If the hon. and learned Gentleman has examples of misuse of that scheme, I would very much like to see them, but it is a scheme that is greatly prized right across the House. I think he would discover that if he talked to other Members about it.