All 14 contributions to the Children and Social Work Act 2017 (Ministerial Extracts Only)

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Tuesday 18th October 2016

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Children and Social Work Act 2017 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: HL Bill 57-I(a) Amendments for Report, supplementary to the marshalled list (PDF, 70KB) - (18 Oct 2016)

This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Children and Social Work Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Moved by
1: Clause 1, page 1, line 10, after second “the” insert “physical and mental”
Lord Nash Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
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My Lords, in Committee, quite rightly, we had a substantive debate about the importance of the mental health of looked-after children and care leavers. The Government share the views of noble Lords about the need to ensure that the mental health and emotional well-being of this vulnerable group of children and young people are given as much consideration as their physical health. As my honourable friend the Minister for Vulnerable Children and Families explained when he met Peers last week, we have reflected on the points raised in Committee. As a result, we have tabled an amendment to Clause 1 to put beyond doubt that promoting the health and well-being of looked-after children and care leavers will mean promoting their mental and physical health.

Lord Ramsbotham Portrait Lord Ramsbotham (CB)
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My Lords, I shall speak to Amendment 4. I am very glad that the Government have tabled Amendment 1, which is the burden of much of the intention behind my Amendment 4, although my amendments spell out some of the mental health descriptions, which, under the heading of mental health needs, are not always apparent.

Perhaps I may start with a plea to the Minister that in future, Bills be handled differently from the way in which this one has been. We got extremely short notice of Second Reading immediately after the Queen’s Speech and then, immediately before Grand Committee, we were bombarded with documents, papers and briefings. Those of us who have no research or clerical support, for example, have to spend a considerable amount of time perusing those in order to understand what is being said so that we can play our part in the purpose of this House, which is to revise and scrutinise legislation.

We complained about that in Grand Committee but, lo and behold, during the short return between the two recesses we again received a number of briefings and letters, and this past week has been absolutely mad. Ministers gave three government briefings last Wednesday. I am not complaining about that, but I ask Ministers to remember that others have diaries and that it is not always possible to change with the rapidity that is expected. Also, there has again been a deluge of government amendments, government briefings and government papers, which suggests to me two things: first, that the Bill was not properly thought through before it was introduced; and, secondly, bearing in mind what was said in Grand Committee, that no impact assessment of any of the measures was carried out—a complaint we have made several times before. An impact assessment does not just say that you either do it or not. It should consist of an analysis of the outcomes of doing it or not, so that those of us not coming at it from a party-political angle can make judgments based on the facts as they are given.

What has also disturbed me during the passage of the Bill is the number of practitioners, including organisations such as the Association of Directors of Social Services, and others working in children’s services, who have tabled amendments and made appeals because they do not feel that they have been consulted, or, if they have, that any of their advice or experience has been listened to. That is really not a healthy basis for important legislation about vulnerable children.

The other thing that has come through strongly—I am very glad that the Government have tabled Amendment 1, because it reinforces the point—is that unfortunately, since the demise of the Social Services Inspectorate, responsibility for children’s social care has passed to the Department for Education. Yet when you talk to the people working in the delivery of children’s services, you find that most of the problems they face are more to do with health, emotion, behaviour and well-being than education. Indeed, preparing children so that they are in a fit state to be educated—mentally as well as in every other way—occupies a great deal of their attention. I am worried that more emphasis is placed on the educational direction of social work and that there is not a more apparent cross-government approach, working with the health industry in particular.

Amendment 4 is designed to spell out in more detail the conditions that children in care and other vulnerable children present. It is based on a paper published by the British Psychological Society in 1915 called, Children and Young People with Neuro-Disabilities in the Criminal Justice System. Unfortunately, we have become used to using the phrase “learning disability”, which carries an understanding of a more serious lack of ability to comprehend than some of the conditions in the amendment. The reasons for this go back to the marvellous paper prepared by Baroness Warnock way back in the 1970s in which she spelled out conditions warranting special educational needs status and therefore special treatment. That list was by no means exhaustive but since her paper there has been a great deal more research, and there is now a great deal more understanding of the various conditions grouped together under the phrase “neurodisability”, such as ADHD, dyslexia, and autism. I am strongly of the belief that all of these conditions—which have now been listed by the British Psychological Society—should be better understood. You need only go and talk to the director of a children’s home to find that it is those conditions that give them greatest trouble.

I am very glad that since Grand Committee, there has been a meeting between officials in the Department for Education and the Royal College of Speech and Language Therapists. In Grand Committee, I spelled out the need for the assessment of speech, language and communication difficulties on the grounds that inability to communicate is the scourge of the 21st century and means that too many of our children are unable to communicate with their teachers and therefore engage with education. There is now an assessment programme, carried out, I hope, for all children in this country before the age of two by health visitors who have been trained by speech and language therapists. The aim is to ensure that a plan can be made to introduce treatment that will enable that child to engage with education in five years’ time, when they start primary school.

Officials from the department have also spoken with the National Association of Virtual School Heads, which I must admit I had not heard of—I was slightly worried when I saw the word “virtual”, because I thought that either you are a school head or you are not. Apparently, however, the virtual school heads have a very valuable role in this area, as does the expert working group on mental health.

I am glad that the Royal College of Speech and Language Therapists has been brought in. They are the best people to advise on looking after children and to advise the Government on how to ensure that children, and those working with them, have access to the communication services they so badly need, particularly children suffering from neurodisability orders. Therefore, I am seeking in this amendment the Minister’s undertaking that, in addition to the bald statement in Amendment 1 about improving access to mental and physical health treatment, he will agree to spell out the conditions that so dominate the lives of those responsible for delivering children’s services and ensure that local good practice—which I know his officials are aware of, because it has been listed to them by the Royal College of Speech and Language Therapists—is turned into national good practice, so that all children can take advantage of what has been done in some parts of the country.

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Lord Mackay of Clashfern Portrait Lord Mackay of Clashfern (Con)
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My Lords, I wonder how the Government’s amendment can be carried out without giving effect to the other amendments in this group. Amendment 1 has the effect of requiring that in carrying out its functions, a local authority must,

“have regard to the need … to act in the best interests, and promote the physical and mental health and well-being, of those children and young people”.

How one could promote their health without knowing what they may need in the way of health I cannot understand. Therefore I assume that these amendments are all covered by the generality of the words in Clause 1(1)(a) as amended.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
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My Lords, I start by responding to the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, about the preparation for the Bill and consultation. The Bill has been very widely consulted on, and impact assessments have been conducted, including a full assessment in respect of children’s rights. Ministers and officials meet regularly with representatives of local authorities and the voluntary sector to discuss all aspects of the Bill, and their views are always listened to very carefully. In relation to the provisions on looked-after children and care leavers, we have spoken to the ADCS, the LGA and approximately 20 local authorities on the corporate parenting principles and local offer. Our thinking was also informed by eight meetings of care leavers organised by voluntary sector organisations as we developed Keep on Caring. However, I take the noble Lord’s point about, at certain times, the rush of correspondence and the flurry of activity, for which I apologise. It has not been easy for any of us, and I will take his points back, again, and ensure that they are taken very seriously.

I now turn to the amendment in the name of the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, which would place a duty on local authorities to promote the mental health of looked-after children and care leavers. I am grateful to the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, to my noble friend Lord O’Shaughnessy, to the noble Lords, Lord Warner, Lord Watson and Lord Judd, to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay of Clashfern, and to the noble Baronesses, Lady Murphy and Lady Benjamin, for their contributions to today’s debate.

All mental health-related amendments have been discussed with the co-chairs of the expert group for mental health for looked-after children. One of the co-chairs, Alison O’Sullivan, attended a meeting with some noble Lords in September to present the work plan and ambition for its care pathway project. Assessment, and how children access the right support, will be at the very heart of its work. The next stage of the group’s work will see the development of options for a care pathway along with models of care and quality indicators for the mental health of looked-after children. A care pathway is an evidence-based journey that outlines possible treatment options, timescales and the professionals involved in a person’s care. It will consider, explicitly, the pros and cons of carrying out a full mental health assessment on entry to care.

The expert group plans to share the evidence base behind the chosen models and the pathway with interested parties, including noble Lords, in the spring. We are committed to acting on the findings of the expert group, and will fully consider all the recommendations it makes, including any recommendations to legislate. Every local authority is already under a duty to safeguard and promote the welfare of the children it looks after. That means not just keeping them safe but considering their emotional well-being. Looked-after children already must regularly receive a comprehensive health assessment by a registered medical professional on entry into care.

Where there is concern about possible mental health or special educational needs issues which require further investigation, local authorities must ensure the appropriate professionals undertake necessary next steps. Access to NHS services is based on the clinical needs of each individual. The current approach of undertaking further specialist assessment where there is an established need allows resources to be targeted appropriately.

Transition between children’s and adult mental health services needs to be managed effectively. However, prescribing the age at which a young person leaves CAMHS fails to recognise looked-after children as individuals with varying needs. NHS guidance is clear that the transition must be carefully planned with the young person and should take place at the time which is right for them. Services should, wherever possible, accommodate this flexibility.

Co-operation between local authorities and clinical commissioning groups is vital. That is why CCGs are relevant partners under Section 10 of the Children Act 2004 and must co-operate with local authority arrangements to promote the welfare of children. That includes those looked after and care leavers in their area. Innovation projects such as No Wrong Door in North Yorkshire show what can be achieved through multiagency team approaches.

There are numerous examples of joint working across local authority and mental health teams: North Tyneside, Kensington and Chelsea, Croydon, Hartlepool, Sheffield and Trafford to name but a few. So what we want to see is already happening, but just not everywhere. Through initiatives like the Innovation Programme, the Government are supporting this work and will be helping the wider sector to learn about what really works in this area. Services are improved through better planning and commissioning. The needs of this vulnerable group should be addressed through local health and well-being boards and the local transformation plans that all CCGs have produced with local authorities, together with other local partners.

I completely agree with the importance to be placed on identifying and responding to the mental health needs of children in care. That is why, as I have said, every looked-after child is subject to regular physical and mental health screenings. Where any potential issues are identified, a more intensive specialist mental health assessment should be pursued. But we must remember that around 50% of looked-after children have a mental health problem; 50% do not require intensive specialist assessment—these assessments should be used where there is cause for further investigation, not indiscriminately. As I say, if the expert group on mental health recommends that we reconsider this position, we will do so, properly considering all its recommendations, including legislation.

The noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, clarified some of her concerns and who she proposes would carry out these assessments, which I personally found extremely helpful. I will commit not only to meet her to discuss this matter, but also to try to ensure that the co-chairs of the expert group are also at that meeting to listen to and discuss her points.

I turn to the amendment from the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, which focuses on the needs of looked-after children and care leavers with neurodevelopmental disorders or neurodisability needs. The ability to communicate in order to access learning and improve life chances is something to which the noble Lord is deeply committed. The Government share that commitment, both to looked-after children and care leavers and those with special educational needs. However, we need to take a proportionate and targeted approach to assessing and meeting needs.

The amendment includes a long list of issues that a proposed mental health assessment should cover, all of which may require a specialist assessment. We do not think that screening all children for every condition on that list is appropriate, with children only being sent for specialist assessment where the earlier general assessment has indicated this is necessary. An assessment framework for looked-after children and young people is already in place to ensure their needs are addressed.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Portrait Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
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I am grateful to the noble Lord for giving way. I am trying to work out whether he has agreed that the issue about mental health assessment can be brought back on Third Reading.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
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Well, I have committed to having a meeting with the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, and the co-chairs of the expert group, to discuss this further. We believe it would be inappropriate to bring this forward now in advance of the expert group making its findings, but it would be helpful if the noble Baroness spoke to the group about her concerns and its direction of travel, and then we can discuss this issue in more detail.

I was dealing with the issues raised by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham. For looked-after children and young people there is already an assessment framework in place to ensure their needs are addressed. This focuses on the whole child’s needs: physical, mental, emotional and behavioural development as well as identity, relationships and social presentation and self-care skills. It draws on expertise from health and education partners and is sufficiently comprehensive to identify children with unmet needs who require further specialist assessment. Where children have or are suspected to have special educational needs or disabilities, social workers should be working with professionals who are experts in addressing those needs and identifying the support needed.

The central approach that underpins the Special Educational Needs and Disability Code of Practice is to use the term “children with learning difficulties”. It is a very broad term, to be applied to any child who has difficulty with learning for whatever reason, including neurodisabilities. It is also intended to identify social, emotional and behavioural issues that are hard to screen for because they are context-based and develop over time.

Under Section 20 of the Children and Families Act 2014, a child or young person has special educational needs if he or she has a learning difficulty or disability that calls for special educational provision to be made for him or her. That definition includes any condition that amounts to a neurodisability, such as autism or dyslexia. The statutory guidance for virtual school heads emphasises this and stresses the importance of the social care and SEND professions working together so that referrals can be made in a timely way and the right support put in place. To that end the department has, for example, been working with the Communication Trust, a consortium of over 40 voluntary and community sector organisations active in the field of speech, language and communication, to build on existing resources and programmes to ensure that practitioners are supported, and to suggest new opportunities to meet the needs of children and young people with speech and language difficulties.

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Lord Warner Portrait Lord Warner
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I am sorry to interrupt the Minister’s flow, but I am puzzling over what he has just said about the amendments from the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, and whether the thrust of those is going to be included in statutory guidance, particularly covering all the conditions set out in Amendment 5. He seemed to be quite encouraging about this, but perhaps he could clarify whether that will be covered in statutory guidance.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
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We will certainly draw attention in the statutory guidance to all these conditions and their importance. We are reluctant to encourage people to assess everyone for all these conditions, if the noble Lord sees what I mean.

Lord Ramsbotham Portrait Lord Ramsbotham
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I thank the Minister for what he has said, but it is not assumed that everyone should be assessed for all these conditions. Rather, they were not recognised in Warnock and have therefore not been recognised as specific conditions in the criteria for special educational needs. It is merely listing them as those that should be included in the SEN description in future.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
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I think we can do that. I am happy to discuss this further with the noble Lord but, as I understand it, we are proposing to list them as conditions and draw practitioners’ attention to them. As I was saying, I am reluctant to do anything further on this in relation to mental health until the expert group has met, but I invite the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, to meet that group.

Baroness Walmsley Portrait Baroness Walmsley
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I am sorry to interrupt the Minister again, but I would like him to clarify what he was saying to my noble friend Lady Tyler. He mentioned that if the expert group says that the gist of what she is recommending should be in place, the Government will be prepared to legislate. Legislative opportunities being so few and far between, can he assure the House that a suitable vehicle, in the form of a Bill, will be available in this Parliament to achieve that, should the expert group make that recommendation?

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
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I am not authorised to make that assurance or to predict future legislation standing here. However, we have appointed these experts, we know what their direction of travel is and we will listen very carefully to all their recommendations, including on future legislation. Obviously, when I say “future”, I mean that if they make recommendations, we would like to get on and legislate, where appropriate, as soon as possible. However, it would be helpful if the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, had further conversation with the co-chairs.

Lastly, I thank the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, for his comments about Clause 29. Of course, we are not due to consider amendments to that clause today. The Government have tabled several amendments to address points made in Committee, and I encourage noble Lords to give them proper consideration before we have a full discussion of that clause in some weeks’ time. I am happy to have further discussions on this with noble Lords in the interim; it would be very helpful to discuss this clause in more detail. I also thank my noble friend Lord Faulks for clarifying the point raised earlier by the noble Lord, Lord Lester. I hope and trust that what I have said—particularly on the amendment on the corporate parenting principle—will reassure the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, and the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, and persuade them not to move their amendments.

Amendment 1 agreed.
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Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Portrait Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville (LD)
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My Lords, I support Amendment 9. Subsection (1) of the new clause proposed in it refers to subsection (2). Clause 1(2)(c) of the Bill refers to,

“persons aged under 25 who are former relevant children within the meaning of”,

the Children Act, and it is that part of the Bill that I wish briefly to address.

I agree completely with the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay of Clashfern, about the importance of relationships to children and young people. On Thursday last week, I attended a briefing organised by the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, and the Children’s Society at which I heard from two care leavers, both of whom spoke very passionately about their experiences. One young lady, who was 18, has now left care. However, she was removed from her foster placement one day after her 18th birthday, which seems unnecessarily hasty and somewhat insensitive. To date, no personal adviser has been appointed for her and she has no one to officially advise her. She made the very valid point that she and others in care really need advice, particularly on their likely financial responsibilities, before they reach 18 and not afterwards, as all money stops at 18. I will return to this aspect of financial advice in later amendments.

It is important that children in local authority care have someone they can turn to at all times. Children not in care have parents and relatives whom they can turn to and confide in. Looked-after children deserve parity with their peers, and I fully support the amendment tabled by the noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, and the noble Lord, Lord Warner.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
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I am grateful to my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay, the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, and the noble Lord, Lord Warner, for their amendments on promoting stable relationships between looked-after children and care leavers and their families and those who care for them.

I am pleased to reassure the House that local authorities already have robust duties to promote and maintain contact between looked-after children, their families and people significant to the child. There are also staff in local authorities and children’s homes with a clear responsibility to promote individual children’s well-being and to build strong relationships with them.

Helping young people maintain positive relationships is a vital part of corporate parenting. Doing so will enable local authorities to comply with several principles; for example, those relating to acting in the child’s best interests and promoting their health, encouraging children to express their wishes and feelings, and to be safe and have stability in their relationships. Maintaining positive relationships is part of promoting children’s best interests and arrangements need to be based on children’s needs and wishes. Existing legislation and statutory guidance strongly support this.

The presumption that contact between children and their family should be maintained while a child is being looked after is already set down in paragraph 15 of Schedule 2 to the Children Act 1989. The Act requires local authorities to promote contact with parents, relatives and those connected with the child, provided it is consistent with the child’s welfare.

Statutory guidance on care planning, placement and case review is also clear. Children’s welfare is the paramount consideration in determining contact and the care plan for a looked-after child must set out the arrangements made for contact with parents, anyone with parental responsibility or any other connected person. The guidance also makes clear that children’s wishes and feelings regarding contact should be taken into consideration. As part of children’s case reviews, independent reviewing officers must speak to children before the review meeting to ascertain their views, wishes and feelings. This gives children a chance to express any concerns, including with their contact arrangements, so the review can take these into account.

I agree with noble Lords that looked-after children, including those in residential care, should be supported by professionals who promote their well-being and have clear accountability for this. At local authority level, all looked-after children have an allocated social worker and an IRO who are responsible for their well-being and development.

The noble and learned Lord, Lord Mackay, rightly highlights the need for children in residential care to have a strong relationship with at least one member of the home’s staff. I entirely agree with him that an ongoing, trusted and stable relationship is really important for these young people. Although it is not mandatory, it is common practice for homes to appoint a key worker for each child. This is a member of staff who has special responsibility for an individual child. The key worker role complements requirements on all staff to protect and build positive relationships with children. While there is no doubt that staff in this role can be a huge source of support for children, we do not believe that making it compulsory would be the right thing to do. Children’s homes have evolved greatly in recent years, both in their size and the approach they take to supporting children, and we strongly believe that they should have flexibility to shape the role and the support they provide to meet children’s individual needs and circumstances.

There are many examples of excellent practice, such as North Yorkshire’s No Wrong Door project. Here children’s wishes and feelings are taken into account by letting them choose their key worker after they get to know their staff. The key worker builds a strong relationship with them and, like a parent, advocates for them where necessary. At No Wrong Door, key workers support young people up to the age of 25, remaining a consistent point of contact as they move to independence.

We recognise that maintaining relationships can be a particular challenge for care leavers. That is why our care leaver strategy, published in July, set out our desire to test new models of support for those leaving care. The Family Finding model, for example, identifies a range of adults, including family members, ex-carers and professionals who have known the young person during their childhood and are prepared to make a lifelong commitment to the young person.

In addition, as the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, mentioned, in response to a recommendation in Sir Martin Narey’s review of residential care, we will introduce “staying close”, which will provide the benefits of “staying put” for those leaving residential care. “Staying close” will support continuation of the trusted relationship that the young person has developed with staff at their former residential home through to age 21. We are planning to invite local authorities to pilot “staying close” in the first instance, to enable us to better understand the costs and practicalities of providing this support.

While I support the very positive intentions behind the amendments, I believe that the way to address them is by continuing to develop effective practice rather than imposing new requirements on practitioners who need the space and flexibility to work out what is best for the children in their care. Though I have much sympathy for the emphasis noble Lords have given to the importance of stable relationships, I believe that this is something local authorities should be promoting through the local offer.

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Baroness Lister of Burtersett Portrait Baroness Lister of Burtersett
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My Lords, I rise to speak in support of this amendment, especially in relation to unaccompanied migrant children. I will not repeat what I said in Committee, especially around the regularisation of immigration and citizenship status, but will simply emphasise—here echoing the noble Lord—its importance from the perspective of meeting our obligations under the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child.

In an earlier report, the Joint Committee on Human Rights, of which I was then a member, underlined the importance of access to qualified legal advice and representation to compliance with Article 12 of the convention, which stresses that children must be,

“provided with the opportunity to be heard in any judicial and administrative proceedings”,

affecting them. The Equality and Human Rights Commission highlighted this as a priority issue for implementing the concluding observations of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child, to which the noble Lord referred. It calls on the Government to expedite the promised review of the LASPO Act to assess its impact on children. Here it is echoing the committee itself.

In yesterday’s Written Statement on the UNCRC the Minister for Vulnerable Children and Families encouraged colleagues to reflect,

“the voice of the child fully in the design and implementation of policy”.—[Official Report, Commons, 17/10/16; col 23WS.]

In the light of that, I hope the Minister will be able to respond positively to the amendment moved by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
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My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, for this amendment and for his contribution and that of the noble Baroness, Lady Lister.

In local authorities where the ethos of corporate parenting is strongest—for example, in North Somerset and Trafford—the views of looked-after children and care leavers are at the heart of how local services are created and delivered. Along with the Minister for Vulnerable Children and Families, I applaud the way in which many local authorities, through their children in care councils and care leaver forums, listen and respond to the views and needs of this vulnerable group.

The corporate parenting principles are designed to ensure that the local authority as a whole has regard to the need to act in the best interests of the child whenever it carries out functions in relation to looked-after children or care leavers. Considering this together with the existing functions to ensure that the rights of children and young people are promoted, I do not believe that amending the principles in the way suggested is necessary. However, I am aware of the report on advocacy services for looked-after children by the Children’s Commissioner, which highlighted that 55% of looked-after children were unaware of their right to independent advocacy support. Local authorities have a duty to provide assistance for advocacy services for all looked-after children, children in need and children in care, and this includes making them aware of this provision. I do not believe that further legislation would help here.

We need to work directly with local authorities to improve good practice and raise awareness. I will commit to the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, that we will do so. Some local authorities are already very good, but others are not; as the Children’s Commissioner made clear in her report. It is about raising the game of the poorer authorities to meet their existing responsibilities. Indeed, while I sympathise with the underlying intention behind the noble Lord’s amendment, I believe that it may risk introducing an unhelpful adversarial dimension to the relationship between children and young people and their local authority as corporate parent, which I am sure the noble Lord would not wish to see.

The framework for care planning and the transition from care to adulthood that exists already gives children and young people routes for voicing their views. These include court-appointed guardians, their social worker and a named IRO who follows their case, meets the child privately before the formal meeting to review his or her care plan, and also advises the court.

A key role of IROs is to resolve problems arising out of the care planning process. Every local authority should have a formal process for IROs to raise concerns and to ensure that those concerns are respected by managers. This is referred to in our guidance as the local dispute resolution process. An IRO has the statutory power to refer the case to Cafcass at any stage if he or she considers it appropriate to do so. He or she may consider it necessary to make a concurrent referral to Cafcass at the same time that he or she instigates the dispute resolution process. There is clear guidance on this point in the Children Act 1989 statutory guidance on care planning and in the IRO handbook. That handbook, which is statutory guidance that local authorities must comply with, also makes it clear that each local authority should have a system in place that provides IROs with access to independent legal advice. Skilled independent advocates who speak on behalf of looked-after children also work with the legal service. They provide the independent advice and assistance sought by this amendment.

Local authorities are required under Section 26A of the Children Act 1989, which deals with advocacy services, to make arrangements for the provision of assistance to looked-after children and care leavers for advocacy and representation support, and local authorities must make these arrangements known publicly, as they see fit. I am not therefore convinced that adding a further principle on a specific area as regards services or support, which is already the subject of a statutory duty, is necessary.

The corporate parenting principles and the needs articulated in Clause 1 are about improving the culture and ethos of local authorities so that, as far as possible, children are treated with care and as a good parent would, so that the children do not feel that they are being looked after by an impersonal corporate body. The way to do that is not to create expectations of legal representation for all looked-after children and care leavers when disputes can be resolved without escalating it to lawyers. That means using IROs and advocates effectively and making better use of children in care councils, which all local authorities will have. I hope that the noble Lord will feel sufficiently reassured to withdraw his amendment.

Lord Ramsbotham Portrait Lord Ramsbotham
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister for that reply and to the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, for her comments and remarks. I am concerned by the content of the UNCRC’s fifth report because it repeats so many criticisms that were contained in the fourth report that do not appear to have been actioned. I am also particularly concerned about the change in status of immigrant children in care, which was included in the Immigration Act 2016. The comment that they lacked legal advice before they were deported is not something of which we should be very proud.

I hope, therefore, that in considering all the things that he has said to me, the Minister will go back and assess the local area legal provision, particularly relating to immigration, because I give notice that I shall raise this question again at Third Reading. In the meantime, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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Baroness Pinnock Portrait Baroness Pinnock (LD)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I draw the House’s attention to my interests as a councillor in the Borough of Kirklees and therefore a corporate parent, with whom the buck finally lands. We had a considerable debate in Committee, as the noble Lord, Lord Watson, said, because there was a lot of concern about having clarity of definition about corporate parenting principles. The noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, talked about the report of the noble Lord, Lord Laming, In Care, Out of Trouble, drawing attention to, “Less clarity leading to more inconsistencies”. That is precisely why, at this stage, there is an endeavour to find greater clarity in the corporate parenting principles laid out in the Bill as it stands.

I also suggest that we ought to support greater clarity because of the changing role of local authorities, given the financial pressures on them. It is also the right thing to do because it makes corporate parenting more effective. There has to be work across other public sector partners; those referred to in the amendment laid before us are the police and the health service. The reason for doing that is to ensure that those two bodies in particular have it as a priority in their planning and actions that they take note of the importance of corporate parenting when they meet young people who are in need of care, and who are sometimes—more often than we would like—brought to the attention of the law.

The third reason why we support the amendment proposed is because, in the principles as laid out, and as described by the Minister in Committee, everyone who is employed by a local authority is responsible as a corporate parent. My fear is that, if everybody is responsible, no one is. That is why I have argued consistently that we need to be clear about where the final responsibility lies.

We need to expand the definition of corporate parenting responsibilities to include other key public sector organisations, but also to have clarity within local authorities on where the final responsibility lies. In the words of the noble Lord, Lord Warner, it is always helpful to refresh requirements in earlier legislation because it brings it to the attention of professionals that this is a matter on which legislators place great importance. With those words, I support wholeheartedly Amendments 6 and 7.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Watson and Lord Warner, for the opportunity to discuss the most effective way of ensuring that partner agencies support local authorities in fulfilling their role as corporate parents, and grateful to them and the noble Baroness, Lady Pinnock, for their contributions to today’s debate.

Legal responsibility and accountability for looked-after children and care leavers rests with local authorities. We believe that maintaining this clear accountability is right to protect vulnerable young people. As such, it is important that the law is clear that local authorities are the corporate parents for looked-after children and care leavers. Section 10 of the Children Act 2004 already places a robust and clear statutory duty on local authorities to,

“make arrangements to promote co-operation”,

to improve the well-being of local children and care leavers in relation to,

“physical and mental health and emotional well-being … protection from harm and neglect … education, training and recreation”,

the contribution made by children to society, and “social and economic well-being”. The partners listed in Section 10 include the agencies necessary to support vulnerable children properly. This includes those listed in this amendment, such as health bodies and the police, but also organisations such as schools and further education institutions that local authorities consider appropriate.

I absolutely agree that partner agencies must be aware of their duties to co-operate with authorities to improve and have regard to children’s welfare under Sections 10 and 11 of the Children Act 2004. However, in practice, to fulfil these duties effectively local authorities would have to make relevant partner agencies aware of their obligations under Sections 10 and 11, so these amendments simply duplicate what is already legally required or necessary in practice to meet existing requirements regarding looked-after children and care leavers. I should add that, crucially, Section 10 goes wider than the amendment of the noble Lord, Lord Watson, as it also places a reciprocal and direct duty on partner agencies to co-operate with local authorities in this regard. Moreover, Section 11 of the Children Act 2004 places a direct duty on the bodies it lists to make arrangements to ensure that they have regard to the need to safeguard and promote the welfare of children when discharging their functions. Therefore, all the bodies within the scope of this provision will be required as of necessity to know about it.

When defining well-being, Section 10 actively addresses key areas where noble Lords rightly want assurance that all vulnerable children will receive high-quality support, such as mental health and emotional, social and economic well-being. This clear and holistic definition provides local authorities with a robust mandate for interagency co-operation to improve the wider well-being of children. Section 10 gives local authorities a strong lever to get the local co-operation needed properly to support vulnerable children and young adults in key aspects of life. The corporate parenting principles provide a further lever for local authorities to engage with key partners and utilise Section 10 arrangements to co-operate to improve the well-being of looked-after children and care leavers.

The fourth principle, in particular, provides for local authorities to have regard to the need to help looked-after children and care leavers access and make the best use of services provided by the local authority and relevant partners. Strong interagency working, underpinned by Section 10, will be crucial to achieving this. The statutory guidance on the corporate parenting principles will emphasise it. It is also important to recognise that there are numerous examples of local authorities and other agencies already working effectively together in the interests of looked-after children and care leavers.

In his report Residential Care in England, Sir Martin Narey refers to the protocol between 10 local authorities and four police services. The protocol aims to reduce the prosecution of children wherever possible by encouraging the use of restorative justice approaches. Trafford provides another good example of strong interagency working. Here, collocation of social workers with health staff and child and adolescent mental health services supports good access to services.

What Peers are seeking to achieve across the country—indeed, what we want—is already happening. It just needs replicating and this is about disseminating good practice and influencing hearts and minds. The corporate parenting principles aid that process because they apply to the whole authority and are intended to create a culture change. We recognise, of course, that, despite the existing legislation to promote interagency co-operation, practice is not always as consistent as it should be. We therefore plan to engage further with directors of children’s services on this issue with the aim of identifying other positive practice and disseminating it more widely.

Given the strength of the existing duties to co-operate under Section 10, our intention to reinforce this in the statutory guidance on the corporate parenting principles and to continue the drive to improve and embed effective practice, I hope the noble Lords, Lord Watson and Lord Warner, will feel reassured enough to withdraw their amendments.

Lord Warner Portrait Lord Warner
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I think it is a missed opportunity, but I am glad that the Minister is going to put some of this into statutory guidance. In the meantime, I beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

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Baroness Tyler of Enfield Portrait Baroness Tyler of Enfield
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Will the Minister clarify that he will meet me before Third Reading to consider the issues I have raised?

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
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I should be delighted to clarify that and I will do so.

Amendment 8 not moved.
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Lord Mackay of Clashfern Portrait Lord Mackay of Clashfern
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My Lords, I do not propose to elaborate because we have already discussed this, but I want to take the opportunity to answer the point made by the Minister. It is in relation to the Barnardo’s release from the National Independent Visitor Development Project, dated 8 August 2016, that the figure of 97% is mentioned. I am a member of Barnardo’s but had nothing whatever to do with the preparation or publication of this report. It came as a rather sad message to me.

I am sorry that, due to the same sort of considerations that the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, mentioned, I have not been able to attend the briefings that have been held because I have not been here, but I would be very happy to meet the Minister. I sincerely hope that, at least, the Government will be able to incorporate this amendment by way of guidance in the standard that they have set out. I beg to move.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I would be delighted to meet my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay to discuss this further. It is important that we do so.

Lord Mackay of Clashfern Portrait Lord Mackay of Clashfern
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I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville Portrait Baroness Bakewell of Hardington Mandeville
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My Lords, I speak briefly to Amendment 10 and to agree with the comments of the noble Lords, Lord Watson and Lord Warner. In the market town in my own area, the number of beds available for young people in the excellent Foyer has been reduced over recent years, and it is now in danger of actually closing. As well as providing excellent accommodation to allow young people, especially care leavers, to move on and gain independence, it has provided training, other support and a coffee bar. It is a great shame, to put it mildly, that such a facility should be closed because of the lack of funding for the number of beds there.

As the noble Lord, Lord Warner, who is much more experienced in this area than me, has said, young people, especially care leavers, are very vulnerable and they require adequate quality accommodation to meet their needs.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords for these amendments, which relate to the local offer for care leavers. Together, they seek to introduce a national minimum standard for the local offer and to place a duty on local authorities to provide suitable accommodation for all care leavers until the age of 21.

It is worth reminding ourselves what the local offer is intended to achieve. It is an opportunity for local authorities to set out in one place the services they provide to assist care leavers as they move into adulthood and independent living. In particular, it should include services relating to health and well-being, education and training, employment, accommodation and participation in society. The local offer must include both care leavers’ statutory entitlements, as well as the additional services and support that local authorities provide to meet the needs of care leavers in preparing for adulthood and independent living. The national minimum offer that the noble Lord seeks is, in effect, the statutory rights that all care leavers are entitled to, but we expect local areas to go beyond the statutory minimum and set this out in their local offer.

Under Clause 2, before publishing their local offer or any revised version of it, local authorities must consult care leavers, as well as any other persons or bodies who are representative of care leavers. I do not believe that prescribing a national minimum standard setting out the services that must be included under the local offer is the right way forward. It would mean central government deciding what is best for care leavers in their local area, rather than the local authorities and care leavers themselves. A set of minimum standards could serve to limit innovation and creativity, rather than to drive the improvements that we all want to see. We have already seen innovation and creativity in the best local authorities with a strong corporate parenting ethos and a care leaver local offer in place, such as North Somerset, Southwark and Trafford.

Turning to the specific duty proposed in Amendment 10, I reassure noble Lords that local authorities are already responsible for providing suitable accommodation to all care leavers aged 16 to 17. “Suitable” is defined in statutory guidance, which makes it clear that bed-and-breakfast accommodation is not a suitable option and must be used only in exceptional circumstances and for no more than two working days.

When care leavers reach the age of 18, local authority care teams are responsible for helping them to access suitable accommodation. The latest data for the year ending March 2016 show that only 7% of care leavers aged between 19 and 21 were in accommodation deemed unsuitable.

There are a range of accommodation options for care leavers aged 18 or above. As we have already discussed, we introduced “staying put”. As I am sure the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, who is not in his place, would be pleased to hear, the latest data show that 54% of 18 year-olds who were eligible to stay put chose to do so. Data also show that 30% of 19 year-olds and 16% of 20 year-olds were still living with their former foster carers.

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Earl of Listowel Portrait The Earl of Listowel
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My Lords, perhaps I may speak briefly in support of the amendment. Earlier we debated my Amendment 2, and I indicated this morning to the Minister that I would not be seeking to move it. I must say that, listening to the debate in the Chamber, I was almost tempted to change my mind. The amendment was brought to my attention fairly late, which is why I was reluctant to push it as hard as I might. This is an excellent amendment, if I may say so. I understand that the Minister is going to give a very sympathetic response. I hope he can go as far as possible towards enshrining this in statute. I look forward to his response.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Farmer and the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, for the amendment. It seeks to add services relating to relationships to the services that local authorities may offer as part of their local offer. I understand the intention behind the amendment, and I agree that high-quality and consistently supportive relationships are critical to supporting care leavers into successful independent lives. I believe that the key to getting these relationships right is down to how the services are delivered, with individual professionals, volunteers and personal advisers building a strong and positive rapport with young people. I was very interested to hear what my noble friend Lord Farmer had to say about Orange County. It is an area I know well because in a past life I used to travel there regularly on business. I know that it is a very forward-thinking part of the world.

This is an important issue and I am certainly very sympathetic to the points that have been made. I am therefore very happy to take them away and consider further in detail whether an amendment to the Bill along these lines is the best way of securing further progress in this area. I hope that, in view of this, the noble Lord and the noble Baroness will feel reassured enough to withdraw the amendment.

Lord Farmer Portrait Lord Farmer
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the Minister for that encouraging response. I also thank the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay and the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, for their support. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am grateful to all noble Lords for this amendment and their contributions to this debate. The amendment would introduce a new clause setting out a national offer for care leavers. The national offer would first comprise an exemption from council tax until care leavers reach the age of 25. Secondly, it would extend care leavers’ exemption from the shared accommodation rate in housing benefit to the age of 25. Thirdly, it would amend the eligibility rules so that care leavers aged under 25 are able to claim working tax credits. Fourthly, it would limit the application of benefit sanctions to care leavers under universal credit. I understand the intention behind this amendment and I agree that it is important that care leavers have the financial support they need to lead independent, successful lives. However, I am not convinced that this amendment is the best way to provide that financial support. I will deal with these issues in turn.

We believe that local authorities are best placed to make decisions about council tax support schemes. Instead of mandating exemptions from the centre, we have provided local authorities with the flexibility to design their own support schemes to meet local need. This is about giving local freedom so that resources can be spent in the best way. We do not want to give blanket exemptions or discounts because of the impact this will have on local authority revenues and other council tax payers who may equally struggle to pay the tax. The latest briefing from the Children’s Society shows that more local authorities are deciding to exempt care leavers from paying council tax. North Somerset, Birmingham, Wolverhampton, Cheshire East and Milton Keynes have all introduced council tax exemptions in the last few months. We expect that the local offer will drive more local authorities to follow suit.

Equally, however, local authorities may decide that it is more appropriate to provide care leavers with other forms of financial support. Some local authorities, for example, provide care leavers with free travel passes or with help to buy clothes for interviews. These are all clear examples of local authorities taking their role as corporate parents seriously.

I recognise the intention behind extending care leavers’ exemption from the shared accommodation rate until the age of 25. As the noble Earl will be aware, discretionary housing payments continue to be available by local authorities which provide support for those individuals who need additional financial help with housing costs. The Government have already committed £870 million in discretionary housing payment funding over the next five years. Your Lordships will appreciate that that is a significant amount of money to help those who are vulnerable and who require additional help with housing costs. However, we have made a commitment in the care leaver strategy to work with the Department for Work and Pensions to explore the costs and benefits of an extension to age 25, as proposed in the amendment. We do not currently have data that tell us how many care leavers would be affected by this change and therefore I do not believe that it would be appropriate to make a change to the law until this issue has been reviewed further. As part of that, we have asked the Children’s Society to provide some real-life case studies to illustrate the impact of moving to the shared accommodation rate.

With regard to amending eligibility rules so that care leavers aged under 25 are able to claim working tax credit, noble Lords may be aware that universal credit will replace the current system of means-tested working-age benefits with a new, simple, streamlined payment. Under the new arrangements, the requirement for workers to be aged 25 or over to be entitled to claim the working tax credit element of universal credit will not apply.

The noble Earl said that care leavers under 25 will still be disadvantaged when universal credit is introduced. That is not consistent with the information provided by the DWP, which has been clear that age-related conditions will not be applied to universal credit. I would be happy to meet the noble Earl to discuss this point further.

Additionally, as part of the national rollout for universal credit, the Department for Work and Pensions will ensure that care leavers are able to make a claim to universal credit in advance of leaving care. They will also have access to universal credit advances where they need help to manage until they receive their first payment.

We recognise the impact that benefit sanctions can have on care leavers’ lives and we share noble Lords’ wish for sanctions on care leavers to be reduced. Jobcentre Plus has introduced a marker that allows care leavers to be identified on the system and receive additional help. We want to ensure that as many care leavers as possible benefit from the support that is available. We do not think it is in care leavers’ interests to remove them entirely from the requirements expected of other jobseekers. However, we already have the flexibility to tailor requirements based on the circumstances of each individual.

The purpose of sanctions is to encourage claimants to comply with reasonable requirements, developed in agreement with their job coach, so as to help them move into and prepare for work. Reducing sanctions on care leavers is therefore best achieved through closer working between local authority leaving care teams and work coaches at Jobcentre Plus. There are many examples of effective local protocols that can help care leavers to understand the conditions around the receipt of benefits. These include the Barnet hub model, which we promoted in our care leaver strategy published in July. I believe, however, that such protocols are best designed locally.

I understand what noble Lords are trying to achieve through Amendment 13. I agree that it is vital that care leavers have the financial resources and support that they need. However, I think that we need to balance this with making sure that we do not unintentionally lower our aspirations for care leavers. Although noble Lords are right to say that care leavers are vulnerable groups, I believe that we would do them a disservice if we did not encourage them into work, as we do with other young people. The real key to helping care leavers is to promote their life chances by supporting them in accessing and staying in education, employment or training in the way that Jobcentre Plus already does, or through the 2nd Chance learning scheme or priority access to the Work Programme. More help and support will be available to care leavers through the new youth obligation scheme and expanded universal support.

I met the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, earlier today, which helped greatly in clarifying and understanding his issues of concern regarding benefit sanctions. I would like to meet him again to discuss his concerns about this further but, before doing so, I will speak to Ministers to see whether there is scope to apply a less stringent sanctions regime for care leavers.

I would also like to draw attention to the care leaver covenant, which will provide a way for government at the national level to make a commitment to support care leavers. Central government departments will be able to set out and update their distinct offer to care leavers. I believe that this will be the most appropriate way to clarify the role of central government departments in supporting care leavers, rather than setting out a “national offer” in legislation. We will announce more details about how departments can sign up to the covenant in the new year.

The noble Lord, Lord Warner, asked about the new Government’s intentions. Noble Lords will be aware that, as part of the Keep on Caring strategy, we are considering our care leavers strategy and how to ensure that care leavers have the financial support they need. I remind noble Lords that this is a programme for the whole Parliament and we will continue to consider these issues. In addition, as the noble Lord will be aware, our new Secretary of State is prioritising social mobility, and she has recognised that improving the outcomes of care leavers is an important part of that agenda.

Finally, many noble Lords have talked about Jack’s experiences while in care. My officials have also heard from Jack and have organised some work experience for him in the department. We continue to talk to him and to listen to his experiences.

In the light of the points I have made, I hope that the noble Earl will feel reassured enough to withdraw his amendment.

Earl of Listowel Portrait The Earl of Listowel
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his reply and I thank all noble Lords who have taken part in the debate: the noble Lord, Lord Watson, the noble Baroness, Lady Bakewell, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Chester and other noble Lords. I appreciate their contributions.

I am grateful to the Minister for his interest, his sympathy and his offer of a meeting, particularly to discuss sanctions. However, I am most concerned that this amendment may be lost if not agreed today.

Listening to the debate, I particularly thought of the recent report from CoramBAAF which looked at the rates of teenage pregnancy among young women in care and leaving care. It pointed out that they are three times more likely to become pregnant and that, when they do, they are more likely to keep the child because they are looking for someone to love them. They want to give birth to and hold on to the child and have the love of the child. In this case we may often be talking about young families coming out of care as well.

We have to do more to break the cycle of young people leaving care and so often falling into debt and financial hardship, not being able to make the most of the opportunities that the worlds of training and work have to offer. This is fundamentally about fairness and pulling out all the stops to help care leavers achieve their full potential.

Before I conclude, I want to say how glad I am to hear that the Minister has found a work placement for Jack. I look forward to hearing how that develops. However, I am afraid that I must beg leave to ask the opinion of the House.

18:26

Division 1

Ayes: 179


Labour: 86
Liberal Democrat: 61
Crossbench: 26
Bishops: 2
Independent: 1
Plaid Cymru: 1

Noes: 188


Conservative: 174
Crossbench: 9
Democratic Unionist Party: 2
Ulster Unionist Party: 1
Independent: 1

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Moved by
14: Clause 3, page 3, line 44, leave out “on request”
Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I will speak first to Amendments 14, 15, 16 and 18.

In Committee, I was pleased at the support Clause 3 received and to see that the importance of making available the support of a personal adviser to all care leavers was widely recognised. In most family situations support tapers away as children and young people get older and gain more independence. The support we provide for 16 and 17 year-old care leavers clearly needs to be greater than it would be for the majority of 21 to 25 year-olds, and the legislation should follow that approach.

At the same time, we know there are some care leavers whose lives remain chaotic during their early 20s and who need quite intense support to bring stability to their lives, and others who will need support on specific things at specific times—for example, on release from prison, if they have a child, or if they lose a tenancy. In Committee, we spent some time considering whether making a personal adviser available on request was adequate to meet the needs of these young people, and whether if support were once declined there would be subsequent access to it. We recognise that no care leaver should feel that they cannot receive support between the ages of 21 and 25 because they had perhaps indicated at an earlier stage that it was not needed. In light of that, I am proposing amendments to Clause 3(7) to expressly clarify that local authorities must proactively offer support to every care leaver at least every 12 months. I trust noble Lords will welcome these amendments.

Lord Brougham and Vaux Portrait The Deputy Speaker (Lord Brougham and Vaux) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I should advise the House that if Amendment 18, is agreed to I cannot call Amendment 19 due to pre-emption.

Lord Ramsbotham Portrait Lord Ramsbotham
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I rise to move Amendments 17 and 19. The purpose of Amendment 17 is both to ask to ask the Minister to clarify the intention behind subsection 3(b) of new Section 23CZB and to highlight a potential loophole which could risk local authorities opting out of their duties to former relevant children. It would appear that the intention behind that subsection is to enable a local authority to cancel the appointment of a personal adviser if at any time a former relevant child says that they no longer want one. However, the wording of the subsection is ambiguous. The phrase “if earlier” leaves open the possibility that a local authority might interpret it in a way that would enable it to refuse advice and support to a former relevant child who had previously said that they did not want a personal adviser but at a later stage requested advice and support. This opens another possible loophole of local authorities requesting that former relevant children sign a form on leaving care at 18 to say that they no longer need support. Would the Minister therefore be kind enough to clarify the Government’s intention and resolve any possible ambiguity in the wording of the legislation?

My Amendment 19 is made completely unnecessary by government Amendment 18, and so I propose not to press it.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

As I understand it, the noble Lord is asking us to clarify that when we say that care leavers will have the right to this every year, they will have the right to it every year and there is no way that local authorities can get out of it. That is our intention, and if it is not clear in the legislation then we will change it. I think I can give the noble Lord the assurance he needs: we do not think there should be any way that local authorities should invite an 18 year-old to contract out of this right.

Lord Ramsbotham Portrait Lord Ramsbotham
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I do not wish to prolong this, but it is practitioners who have raised this question with me because they are unclear. Although young people have the right every year, it is an opportunity basis that they are considering.

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Lord Bishop of Chester Portrait The Lord Bishop of Chester
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I thought the Minister was just making a clarification.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am sure that we can clarify this. I myself felt that the idea someone would have a one-off chance was not a good one. Therefore, as I said, the intention is that they will get a regular chance—at least every year—to change their mind if they have previously said no. I do not think we should allow any way for anybody to get out of that. I am happy to talk to the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, outside the Chamber to clarify that. I am sure that we can resolve this.

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Moved by
15: Clause 3, page 4, line 5, leave out “requests” and insert “informs the local authority that he or she wishes to receive”
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Moved by
18: Clause 3, page 4, leave out lines 26 to 30 and insert—
“(7) Where a former relevant child to whom this section applies is not receiving advice and support under this section, the local authority must offer such advice and support—(a) as soon as possible after he or she reaches the age of 21, and(b) at least once in every 12 months.”
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Moved by
20: Clause 4, page 5, leave out line 28 and insert—
“(a) any person who has parental responsibility for the child,”
Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, in Committee we promised the noble Lord, Lord Watson, that we would consider his amendment in Grand Committee to ensure that the current drafting of Clause 4 fully captures those with parental responsibility where the child has left care under special guardianship or child arrangements orders. Following further consideration, the Government have decided an amendment is necessary to Clause 4, and I am grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Watson, for bringing this to our attention—I am rather disappointed that he is not here to hear me say that, but I hope the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, will pass on my thanks.

The amendment will make it clear to local authorities in England that they must make advice and information available to any person who has parental responsibility for a previously looked-after child for the purpose of discharging their duty to promote their educational achievement. Unlike adoption, where only the adoptive parents have parental responsibility, parental responsibility in respect of children named in special guardianship and child arrangements orders may be shared with the child’s birth parent or parents. This amendment is therefore important to ensure that all those with parental responsibility are not excluded.

I would like also to speak to government Amendments 21, 24 and 27, which are technical amendments to Clauses 4 to 6 that will ensure that children who were previously looked after and adopted under the Adoption Act 1976 are also within the scope of the new duty on local authorities and schools to promote their educational achievement. These “older” children will be in secondary education, and they too should have access to the virtual school head and the designated teacher. I hope that noble Lords will accept these government amendments.

Before hearing what noble Lords have to say on other amendments, perhaps it would be helpful to noble Lords, and particularly to the noble Baroness, Lady King, if I say that the Government will table an amendment to the Bill in the other place to bring children adopted from care outside England within the scope of Clauses 4 to 6.

Baroness Walmsley Portrait Baroness Walmsley (LD)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, it was my intention to speak to Amendments 22, 23, 25, 26 and 28 in my name and that of the noble Baroness, Lady King of Bow, and other noble Lords. However, I am delighted to hear what the Minister has just said. To explain to other noble Lords who may not be familiar with the effect of these amendments, I should say that they refer to the educational entitlements of children adopted from overseas to make them equal to those of children adopted from this country. I must declare an interest in this subject because I have a much-loved adopted Chinese granddaughter, although she would not benefit from these amendments since she and her family live abroad.

From a peak of 25,000 adoptions a year in the mid-1970s, the number of adoptions fell in England to only 3,000 in 2011. But the new focus on adoption of the previous Government and of the current Government has made a very big difference. The number of adoptions is going up again, and they are extremely resilient, as shown by a certain amount of research. Only 3% of them break down, which is less than those where children are put under special guardianship. In acknowledging the need for the numbers of adoptions to grow, the application has been made easier and shorter. However, before those reforms took place, many would-be adopters turned away by local authorities had to adopt internationally if they were to have a family, particularly if they wished to adopt an infant. A number of international adopters, including my son, would willingly have adopted in the UK but were turned away, sometimes because of their ethnicity.

There used to be a view that children adopted from abroad did not come from the care system in their country. That may have been the case some time ago but that has changed. Indeed, Martin Narey, who had previously claimed that that was so, has changed his mind in view of changes in all those countries. Most of the children come from care in the countries from which they are adopted. That means that they have exactly the same traumatic experiences that children adopted from care in this country have, and therefore they have exactly the same needs. Those children have already benefited from several elements of the adoption support fund, but until today they had not benefited from the educational advantages that were given to children adopted from this country. So I am delighted that the Minister has indicated in what he has just said that he has accepted that those children need the same advantages in education. We are talking about children who are all British nationals, all with a similar experience of neglect and abuse and all adopted from care. The only difference is that in some cases internationally adopted children might also have experienced deeply inadequate medical care and malnutrition in their country of birth, so actually they may be worse off than children adopted from care in this country.

The Minister suggested that amendments would be tabled when this Bill goes to another place, so I look forward to seeing that. That will remedy the fact that we have up to now condemned a very small number of British children who have suffered neglect and abuse to lives much less successful than they might have been. I hope that will now change. I thank the Minister and the noble Baroness, Lady King of Bow, for suggesting these amendments.

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Earl of Listowel Portrait The Earl of Listowel
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My Lords, I join in welcoming government Amendment 20, which seems to fill an important loophole. In passing, as I did not have an opportunity in the previous grouping, I also thank the Minister for his previous amendments, which are important and which we raised in Committee. As is so often the case, the Minister listens and takes action, and I am grateful to him when he does so, as he did earlier and in this case.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for their interventions on Amendments 22, 23, 25 and 26, which concern Clauses 4 to 6 about promoting the educational achievement of previously looked-after children. I am grateful to the noble Baronesses, Lady King and Lady Walmsley, and the noble Lord, Lord Alton of Liverpool, for these amendments, which would require local authorities and schools to also promote the educational achievement of children adopted from care outside England.

Government policy has been clearly focused on continuing to support very vulnerable children who were looked after by our care system before starting new lives through, for example, adoption. Making a commitment to continue to help them, and the wonderful parents and guardians who give them a secure and loving home, remains a top priority. Support to succeed in education is an important element of this because we know that there is an attainment gap to address.

I understand that some children adopted from outside England will have been in an equivalent form of care prior to adoption and that they, too, are vulnerable. This is in addition to moving to a new country and a new culture. The Government have acknowledged this by extending access to the adoption support fund to these children and their families so that they, too, can get access to much-needed therapeutic services. The Government would like to do more for these children and agree with noble Lords that extending the remit of Clauses 4 to 6 to require local authorities and schools to also promote their educational achievement would be a positive step.

There are, however, a number of important practicalities to consider: for example, how we define eligibility and how a parent proves eligibility. This is because there is much variation between the care systems of other countries. I hope that noble Lords will agree that it is important that we ensure that the eligibility criteria closely match the criteria for children in this country in order to come within the scope of Clauses 4 to 6. As I said, the Government will table a government amendment to this Bill in the other place to bring children adopted from care outside England within the scope of Clauses 4 to 6.

I am also grateful to noble Lords for their Amendment 28, which proposes a new clause to extend existing educational entitlements given to previously looked-after children in England to children adopted from care outside England. These entitlements include priority school admission in the early years and the pupil premium plus. None of these entitlements is provided for in primary legislation so it would not be appropriate to consider this amendment for inclusion in the Bill. The Government will, however, give full consideration to the position of these children when reviewing these policies.

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Moved by
21: Clause 4, page 6, line 9, after “by” insert “section 72(1) of the Adoption Act 1976 or”
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Moved by
24: Clause 5, page 6, line 40, after “by” insert “section 72(1) of the Adoption Act 1976 or”
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Moved by
27: Clause 6, page 8, line 16, after “by” insert “section 72(1) of the Adoption Act 1976 or”
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Lord Warner Portrait Lord Warner
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, my name is attached to Amendments 30, 31 and 34. I say to the noble Baroness, Lady King of Bow, that there have been Ministers in this House who have made concessions on the basis of the evidence before them; the noble Lord, Lord Nash, is not unique in this, although I am very grateful for the concessions he has made.

Let me start with Amendment 30. Going back in time to when I first became a director of social services in the mid-1980s, and having never, I have to confess, even been in a social services department in my life before, the very first briefing I was given by these luckless social workers who suddenly found that this strange man had been placed in charge of their department was on the importance of permanence and that if I did nothing else in my time as a director, I must promote planning for permanence. That has stuck with me as a big issue. The second briefing said: “You cannot rely on adoption to deliver permanence. Everybody likes to adopt babies and young children but you will find, oh dear director, that there are going to be a lot of children, from the age of 10 and moving into the teenage years, for whom you will have to plan for permanence, and adoption is not the issue”.

Any social worker starting out in their career over the last two or three years could be forgiven for thinking that the real answer to permanence is adoption. The points made by the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, are critical: if we believe in permanence as the aim of what we are trying to do—as we all do—we must not give any signals that longer-term fostering is not a perfectly valid option in planning for permanence. We must not delude ourselves, or allow ourselves to look as though we are deluding ourselves to the social work profession, that adoption is the only answer and that, somehow, longer-term fostering is an inferior option for permanence planning. So I hope that the Minister will think about that and what the impact of all this is on the profession, working day in, day out, on the front line trying to deal with and provide a more permanent solution for many of these children. We need an amendment of the kind that has been framed in Amendment 30 to restore the balance.

We discussed the issue in Amendment 31 pretty extensively in Committee. In those discussions I recall that the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, with all her experience in the family courts, said that all too often the voice of the child was absent from our legislation and court processes. She made much of that then, and there is an opportunity now, with Amendment 31—which, if I may say so to the Minister, is just five little words—to put clearly, fairly and squarely in the legislation an amendment that gives the voice of the child some recognition in the legislation. It will not cost the Government anything, so the easiest thing for the Minister to do shortly would be to stand up and say, “I accept Amendment 31”. He will then go out of this Chamber at the dinner break even more flushed with success and encouragement from the Members of your Lordships’ House. As the noble Baroness said on Amendment 34, this is a straightforward way of removing a disincentive to taking siblings into adoption. I am glad that the Minister is going to make a concession on that, but if he is in for one, why not go for a couple of others as well?

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I shall speak to Amendments 30, 31 and 34, which concern the decision-making process about how a child becomes looked after and where they should be placed, and the state benefits which families of adopted children should be entitled to. There is also the matter of wishes and feelings. I am very sorry to disappoint the noble Lord, Lord Warner, but I understand that after very helpful discussions between the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, and my officials, she—or somebody on her behalf—plans not to move her Amendment 31. I believe she now recognises that it is not necessary, although my officials found the meeting with her extremely helpful. The child’s wishes and feelings are taken into account by local authorities when a child is looked after. This is a legal requirement under Section 22(4) of the Children Act 1989. When any decision is taken with respect to a child who is looked after, the local authority must ascertain their wishes and feelings.

Amendment 30, tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Watson, Lord Hunt and Lord Warner, proposes new wording for the permanence provisions of care plans in the context of care proceedings. As I stated in Committee in response to such an amendment, I recognise the concern that adoption should not be seen as more important than other long-term placement options. In answer to the point raised by the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, I can state clearly that there is no intention to create a hierarchy here between placement options. We want all children in care, or entering care, to find placements that provide stability and suit them. This is what we mean by permanence; there are different ways to achieve it for different children.

Clause 8 seeks to improve the decision-making process about where a child should be placed, whether that be adoption, with a special guardian, with foster parents or in a children’s home, by having particular regard to the child’s needs and how any placement options would meet those needs. The amendment seeks to explicitly set out in Section 31 of the 1989 Act a list of placement options, such as foster care. However, all placement options, including foster care, are already included within the current legal definition for permanence provisions. Section 22C of the Children Act 1989 and the accompanying statutory guidance set out clearly how all looked-after children, including children subject to care orders, are to be accommodated and maintained by local authorities. This includes a hierarchy of placements with parents, relatives, friends or other persons connected with the child, kinship foster placements with local authority foster carers and placements in children’s homes.

Local authorities and courts are very clear about what placement options they need to consider during care proceedings. Amendment 30 is therefore not necessary and would not add to the existing legislative framework. It would simply duplicate what is already set out elsewhere in the Children Act 1989, which is something that Governments always try to avoid. As the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, said, Section 22C clearly says that foster care is an option set out for local authorities and courts to consider, and this includes long-term foster care. Local authorities and courts understand this, and I am advised that no one is confused in practice on the issue. On that basis, I hope the noble Lord will feel able to withdraw his amendment.

Amendment 34, tabled by the noble Baroness, Lady King, and the noble Lord, Lord Warner, proposes a new clause so that child-related benefits would be payable to adopted children regardless of any limit on the number of children to whom those benefits are usually payable. As noble Lords will know, the Welfare Reform and Work Act 2016 legislated for the child element in child tax credit and universal credit to be limited to two children from April 2017. I was delighted to announce in my letter to noble Lords on 11 October that where a family adopts a child from local authority care and this increases the number of children in the family to three or more, all third or subsequent adopted children will attract the child element of either tax or universal credit. This will be provided for, along with the other exemptions, in regulations and is good news for families who come forward and give a loving home to some of our most vulnerable children. It represents another example of the Government’s ongoing commitment to support these children and their families.

I am grateful to the noble Baroness, Lady King, for her kind words. As the noble Lord, Lord Warner, said, I may not be unique in listening to rational arguments but I may be unique in being incapable of resisting the noble Baroness’s charms and the powers of her arguments. I am sure that we will all miss her and I wish her and her family all the best in California. I hope that it will not be long before we see her back on those Benches.

Amendment 32 would simply ensure that Clause 9 will now apply to adoption agencies in Wales, whereas the previous draft of this provision applied to courts in England and Wales and adoption agencies in England. It will also mean that the provision of the new duty will come into force at the same time in England and Wales. The department has agreement from the Welsh Government to lay this amendment, in anticipation of the Assembly scrutinising the required memorandum before agreeing a legislative consent Motion.

In conclusion on all the amendments that have been discussed, I hope the noble Lords, Lord Ramsbotham, Lord Watson, Lord Hunt and Lord Warner, will feel reassured enough to withdraw or not press their amendments, and that the House will support the Government’s amendment.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Portrait Lord Hunt of Kings Heath
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am grateful to the Minister and join him in congratulating my noble friend Lady King on her new adventure, if I may put it that way. I also congratulate her on her success in persuading the noble Lord to change policy, which is very welcome indeed.

On Amendment 30, I hear what the Minister says about the technical arguments, which I hope are reassuring. He clearly said that there is no intention to create a hierarchy of care, which is very welcome. He also said that he thought that no one in practice at field level is confused. I do not disagree at all with the emphasis that the Government have given to improving adoption procedures, but there is a possibility that practitioners may feel that fostering is no longer seen as an equal option. The guidance that will be issued by his department when the Bill is enacted will no doubt give an opportunity to make that point. I am very grateful for the response and beg leave to withdraw my amendment.

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Moved by
32: Clause 9, page 9, line 11, leave out subsections (1) to (3) and insert—
“In section 1(4) of the Adoption and Children Act 2002 (matters to which court is to have regard in coming to a decision relating to the adoption of a child), in paragraph (f) (relationships), after “relatives,” in the first place it occurs, insert “with any person who is a prospective adopter with whom the child is placed,”.”

Children and Social Work Bill [HL]

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

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Report: 2nd sitting (Hansard): House of Lords
Tuesday 8th November 2016

(7 years, 12 months ago)

Lords Chamber
Children and Social Work Act 2017 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: HL Bill 57-II Second marshalled list for Report (PDF, 170KB) - (4 Nov 2016)

This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Children and Social Work Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Viscount Younger of Leckie Portrait Viscount Younger of Leckie (Con)
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My Lords, I am extremely grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Wills and Lord Low, and the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, for these amendments. I well remember debating this matter during the passage of the Small Business, Enterprise and Employment Bill. I wish the noble Lord, Lord Wills, a speedy recovery and I am sorry that he is not with us today. He has worked assiduously to make positive changes which put more emphasis on employers to follow best practice and provide greater protection for employees.

I agree with the noble Lord, Lord Wills, and the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, that those working with the most vulnerable children in society need to be able to report concerns about what is happening in their organisation. Importantly, when they make a protected disclosure they should have no fear of being effectively blacklisted and unable to find a new role. Employment legislation is designed to protect workers from being unfairly dismissed by their employer, or from suffering other detriment such as missing out on promotion, if they report concerns that are in the public interest. That is why we have statutory employment protections for workers who report information which they reasonably believe reveals illegal activity or malpractice in an organisation. This may include someone at work neglecting their duties—for example, in a case where health and safety is put at risk.

I am aware that since we discussed these amendments in Committee, the noble Lord, Lord Wills, has had a productive discussion with the Minister for Small Business, Consumers and Corporate Responsibility. The noble Lord’s Amendments 52, 53, 72 and 73, which he brought forward in Committee, make similar proposals for two groups of whistleblowers. Firstly, the noble Lord mentions those employed by, or seeking employment with, public bodies providing social services or children’s services. Secondly, the noble Lord identifies those employed by, or seeking employment with, public bodies employing registered social workers. For each group, he proposes a statutory code of practice and the extension of whistleblower protections to job applicants.

We do think that it may be premature to consider a statutory code. In March last year, the coalition Government published guidance and a code of practice for employers which set out their responsibilities in regard to whistleblowing. I strongly believe that we should allow sufficient time to allow that code to have effect. This is because it has only been in place since last year and it will inevitably take time for employers and prescribed bodies to act on and investigate the disclosures made to them. It is, therefore, premature to make changes without properly assessing the evidence available. I am pleased, though, that the Minister for Small Business, Consumers and Corporate Responsibility discussed with the noble Lord that the Government intend to review the code in 2017 and will work with him to take this forward.

On the proposed protection for job applicants, I am grateful to the noble Lord, and to the noble Baroness, Lady Wheeler, for bringing forward these amendments. We strongly support the principle behind them, particularly as it applies to those who, in blowing the whistle, have sought to act with integrity in relation to the protection of vulnerable children. There are, however, technical issues around the scope of some of the proposed measures, and their coverage of specific groups of workers or job applicants. Firstly, a Bill focusing on children’s well-being does not seem to be an appropriate vehicle in which to capture the breadth of a local authority’s recruitment arrangements. Secondly, there are practical difficulties in framing legislation like this by reference to qualifications or registrations that an applicant—in this case a social worker—may hold. To do that would mean that in some instances applicants for the same job might be afforded different protections. Additionally, it might be conceivable that an employer themselves would not be aware of all the applicant’s professional qualifications or registrations if the applicant had not disclosed them because they were not relevant to the job being advertised.

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Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Portrait Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)
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My Lords, my noble friend has made a convincing case for action in this area. We discussed this in Committee and the Minister was sympathetic to the principal points made by my noble friend. However, he put his eggs in the basket of encouraging innovative good practice and referred to his department’s innovation programme and the funding that has been put into the Pause project to support women who have experience or are at risk of repeat removals of children from their care. He argued that it was better to support good practice than to mandate local authorities. I get that up to a point.

However, to pick up on the remarks of the noble Lord, Lord Warner, the problem is that we have been talking about innovative good practice in this area for a considerable number of years. As the Family Rights Group chief executive, on behalf of the Your Family, Your Voice alliance and the Kinship Care Alliance, has pointed out, looking at the country as a whole, we are not covering sufficient vulnerable people in the way we know can be successful, as these examples of good practice have shown.

This leaves us with a dilemma. I take the noble Lord’s point about the risks of mandation, but if we cannot see from the Government a determined programme that will ensure that good practice is spread throughout every local authority area, we are forced back into the area of mandation. I hope the Minister will come forward with distinct proposals for how his department will make sure that, in every part of the country, the vulnerable people we are talking about will get the kind of support my noble friend has proposed.

Lord Nash Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
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I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Armstrong of Hill Top, for her amendment, under which local authorities would be required to provide counselling and therapeutic support to parents who have had children taken into care to prevent any further children being taken into care. This is an important issue and, contrary to the noble Baroness’s introductory remarks, I am pleased that she has raised it and I am grateful to her, the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, and the noble Lords, Lord Warner, Lord Hunt and Lord Ponsonby, for their contributions to today’s debate.

As their Lordships will know, the Government believe that children are best looked after within their families, with their parents playing a full part in their lives, unless intervention in that family’s life is necessary. One of the fundamental principles of the Children Act 1989 is that children should be brought up and cared for within their families. Indeed, Section 17 of that Act embodies that principle, with local authorities under a statutory duty to provide services for children in need and their families to safeguard and promote the welfare of such children and promote their upbringing by their families. Local authorities also have a duty to return a looked-after child to their family unless this is against their best interests.

The noble Baroness is right to emphasise how important it is to support parents who have had children taken into care. They need the right type of intervention to allow them to be effective parents for that child if they are returned to them, any other children in their care and any children they may have in the future. We share this commitment, and the legislation and our statutory guidance, Working Together to Safeguard Children, reflect this. Working Together is clear that any assessment of a child’s needs should draw together relevant information from the child, their parents and any other professionals in contact with them. Every assessment of need must be child-centred and must acknowledge that many of the services provided as part of a child in need or a child protection plan will be to support the parents to make sustained change so they can look after their children well.

Alongside the child’s needs and wider family and environmental factors, parenting capacity is a crucial element of a good assessment, as Working Together makes clear. If support is needed to improve parenting capacity, a good assessment will identify this and enable the specific support needs identified—which will vary depending on the circumstances of each case—to be provided. If a child is removed, their parents should continue to receive help and support. If they go on to have further children, Working Together is clear that the level and nature of any risk to the child needs to be identified at a pre-birth assessment and the appropriate help and support given to these parents to support them with making a sustained change.

The noble Baroness might be interested to read, if she has not already done so, the research Assessing Parental Capacity to Change when Children are on the Edge of Care: An Overview of Current Research Evidence, published by the Department for Education in 2014. Among other things, the research sets out the parental factors that are known to be associated with a risk of significant harm to a child, the factors that can reduce the risk of harm and the likely nature of that harm. The report highlights the extensive body of research that shows that a range of problems can impair parents’ ability to meet the needs of their children. These include, but are not restricted to, poor mental health, problem drug and alcohol use, learning disability and domestic abuse. This underscores the need to make sure that parents receive the right type of support to meet their particular needs and circumstances.

Of course, there may be circumstances where counselling will always be appropriate. Because adoption, unlike any other permanent option, involves the ending of a child’s legal relationship with their parents and family, and the creation of a lifelong relationship with new parents, adoption agencies have a legal duty to provide a counselling service for the parent or guardian of the child. Local authorities and voluntary sector agencies that provide these services often, where appropriate, also use the service to support birth parents whose children have been taken into care. In the London Borough of Hammersmith and Fulham, for example, Ofsted inspectors found:

“In all cases seen by inspectors where placement orders had been granted, there was evidence of birth parents being offered referral to support services and mothers were offered referrals to commissioned services to avoid repeat pregnancies where proceedings were likely to result”.

We know that the cycle of care too often continues and that parents who have a child taken into care may well be more likely to have another taken into care later. The noble Baroness referred to some depressing statistics in this regard. The Department for Education’s innovation programme has supported the Pause project, to which the noble Baroness referred, to the tune of £3 million to support women who have experienced, or are at risk of, repeat removals of children from their care. The project aims to break this cycle and give women the opportunity to develop new skills and responses that can help them create a more positive future. Early indications are showing positive results for all 150 women Pause is currently working with, and in some instances the project is enabling them to engage in positive and consistent contact with their children.

Noble Lords will be pleased to hear that, given its success since Committee, the Secretary of State announced last week that further support is to be offered for programmes such as Pause to build on early successes of the programme, and that the programmes’ reach would be extended from six to 47 areas, with up to a further £7 million. This will provide much-needed further evidence on which we can assess our proposals. I hope the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, is pleased to hear that.

Through the innovation programme, we are also continuing to fund the family drug and alcohol court service, which provides therapeutic support to parents whose children are at risk of being taken away from them. Again, often these are parents who have had other children taken into care in the past.

Changing practice like this provides a more effective means of ensuring that we break the cycle. Mandating that local authorities provide counselling or therapy may help some, but it will not be the answer to all the complex problems in this context and will not provide the right support to all parents.

Given that the existing statutory framework is clear that local authorities must provide services to support children in need and their families to stay together, and the innovative ways that we aim to change practice, including further support for Pause and other projects, so that we can build up further evidence, I hope the noble Baroness will feel reassured enough to withdraw her amendment.

Earl of Listowel Portrait The Earl of Listowel
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

That is such good news regarding the funding of Pause and the family drug and alcohol court. There has been concern about the continuing funding of both those. Will the Minister clarify that the future funding of the family drug and alcohol court is secure? Perhaps he would like to write to me on that point.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will do that.

Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top Portrait Baroness Armstrong of Hill Top
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I thank everyone who has taken part in this short debate. I think it is clear to the Minister that concerns about this matter are felt around the House. I am pleased that he is committed to thinking more about those concerns and to action. I mentioned Pause. That is not the programme we use, partly because women are not entitled to become part of the programme until they have already had two children taken into care. We wanted to be able to intervene if necessary and if possible before then. I would be interested in talking further to the Minister about this, working with him and inviting him to look at some of the work going on that would support what is proposed in the amendment. We tabled the amendment on the basis of wanting the House to think about the matter and to push the Government further. On the basis that I believe that the Government are taking this issue on board—although I am not yet satisfied—I shall withdraw the amendment at this stage in the hope that the Government will demonstrate to me that they are prepared to continue to work on it.

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Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I thank the noble Baroness, Lady Thornton, for her amendment and for the points that she, the noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, and the noble Lord, Lord Watson, have made. I understand that the concerns around GPs charging for evidence are shared by others, including the Law Society and Rights of Women. I also note that Tom Watson MP, deputy leader of the Labour Party, launched a campaign related to this issue in September. Before addressing their points, it may be helpful if I briefly explain the purpose of the regulations to which the tabled amendment refers.

The reforms introduced by the Legal Aid, Sentencing and Punishment of Offenders Act 2012 removed most private family matters from the scope of legal aid. These were mainly matters concerning child contact arrangements following separation. A clear exception to the scope of these reductions was for family cases involving the appalling crime of domestic violence, for which legal aid is available provided that applicants can produce a piece of objective evidence from those listed at Regulation 33 of the Civil Legal Aid (Procedure) Regulations 2012. A letter from a health professional, including a GP, is one of the specific pieces of evidence listed. Such letters are one of the most common ways that victims evidence their abuse: around 25% of applicants rely on it currently. In the letter, the GP must confirm that the victim has been examined and has injuries or a condition consistent with being a victim of domestic violence. The examination must have taken place within five years of an application for civil legal services. GPs are not required to provide a full report of the violence, just a brief letter for which a template is provided by the Legal Aid Agency. The template was designed in conjunction with the Royal College of GPs.

The Ministry of Justice does not believe that there is a need for GPs or health professionals to charge for writing a letter, although we recognise that this may happen on occasion. I am sure we can all agree that none of us wishes to see unnecessary barriers placed between victims of domestic violence and the help that they need, and I understand the concerns raised by noble Lords. However, I worry that in the absence of alternative funding arrangements or legislation compelling GPs to provide this service to victims, GPs may choose not to provide the evidence following this amendment. That could be counterproductive and prevent victims accessing legal aid. In any event, the House should be aware of an extensive programme of work currently being undertaken by the MoJ, looking not just at this specific issue but at the domestic violence evidence requirements for legal aid more generally. It is worth me elaborating on this a little further.

The Government have broadened the domestic violence evidence criteria three times since implementation; they were most recently amended in April this year. Upon announcing the latest amendment, the Minister then responsible for legal aid announced to the House of Commons that the Ministry of Justice had begun work with domestic violence support groups, legal representative bodies and colleagues across government to gather data and develop their understanding of the issues encountered by victims in obtaining evidence, with the aim of drawing up replacement regulations. The Law Society and Rights of Women are among those with whom the Government have been working collaboratively over the summer. Among other things, the work has involved a large survey of legal aid providers and domestic violence support organisations, as well as a series of focus groups facilitated by Women’s Aid with victims who have had experience of providing evidence. The work is looking at all types of evidence set out in regulations, not just letters from GPs and health professionals, as well as issues around accessibility more generally. The Ministry of Justice is considering the findings and will announce any change to regulations in due course.

I reassure the House that the Government strongly believe that victims of domestic violence must have access to the help they need, including access to legal services funded through legal aid. The extensive research work undertaken by the Ministry of Justice is a reflection of that. I am sure that my colleagues will be happy to meet the noble Baroness to discuss the matter in more detail, and I will certainly take back the particular point made by the noble Lord, Lord Watson. However, in view of what I have said, I hope that the noble Baroness will feel reassured enough to withdraw the amendment.

Baroness Thornton Portrait Baroness Thornton
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the Minister for that detailed and comprehensive answer. My only complaint is that he did not accept my amendment, because he has covered all the bases. Clearly there is more to discuss. I thank him for his answer and will certainly accept the invitation to discuss this further. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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Moved by
54: Clause 29, page 20, line 25, at end insert—
“( ) Regulations under this section may not be used so as to remove any prohibition on a local authority in England arranging for functions to be carried out by a body whose activities are carried on for profit.”
Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I want to start by setting out the Government’s case for why the power is needed before I come to speak about the amendments that I have tabled in this group. The Government believe that the legislative framework is the bedrock of children’s social care services. It provides the critical architecture that protects the rights of children and young people. We believe this framework is essentially correct. However, at times we have legislated in response to failure with laws that are focused on achieving the right outcome but have unintended consequences on the ground.

The Munro review in 2011 showed us that overregulation can get in the way of good social work practice and prevent social workers putting children’s needs and wishes first. Too often legislation not only sets out what local authorities need to do to protect children but gives a significant level of detail about how they should do it.

We believe that changes to legislation should be built on evidence of what works in practice, but at present we do not have the ability to trial some of the new ideas local authorities tell us about; we can change the law for all or for none. The power would allow us to test new grass-roots approaches with careful controls, monitoring and evaluation. This might mean, for example, testing more flexible approaches for assessing kinship carers or trialling a new approach to the reviewing process.

The power to test different ways of working is about putting those on the front line in the driving seat and empowering them to find better ways of working to protect the children in their care. This is not about local authorities opting out of their legal duties towards children or being allowed to remove services. It is about empowering them to try something different. By passing this power, we would be creating the opportunity for local authorities to consider how they can give children the best possible service, starting from the needs of the children and their own professional expertise, rather than from a set of regulatory requirements. These provisions will empower professionals to look at international examples and their own experience to design the best possible service for the children in their care.

Not every idea will be a good one, and not every application will be granted. This is why it is so important that there is a robust scrutiny process about how the power is used to ensure that no trial is granted that questions the fundamentals of children’s rights or would not be in their best interests. I know that some concerns have been raised about the scrutiny of proposals and the safeguards surrounding how this power is used. It is absolutely right that noble Lords should want reassurance on this point.

I have considered carefully the views raised in Committee and the extensive discussions we have had around this since. I would like to take this opportunity to outline the amendments the Government have made to improve these clauses and provide more robust and transparent safeguards.

I shall speak first to Amendment 54. As I said on the first day on Report, when we discussed the amendment on profit tabled by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, I recognise that this is a sensitive area. I also know that there have been concerns from those in this Chamber that the power to innovate could be used to revisit restrictions on profit-making. I have said before, and I will say again, that the Government have no intention for these clauses to be used to amend restrictions on profit-making. However, to put this point absolutely beyond doubt. I have tabled a government amendment to rule out use of the power to amend restrictions on profit-making in children’s social care. I hope this amendment makes it clear to the House that these clauses have nothing to do with profit-making in children’s social care.

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Without successful interventions, the vulnerable children who are the subject of the Bill face dreadful life outcomes. What group could be more in need of innovation given the deeply complex web of challenges that they face? We need new thinking, harnessing the ingenuity and creativity of social workers and others, to make sure that vulnerable children have a better chance of a better life. On that basis, I strongly urge noble Lords to make sure that the power to innovate and test new ways of working stays in the Bill so that it can play a central role in the policies of this Government and future Governments, in order to give vulnerable young people a greater chance to flourish in life.
Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to this debate. I found it very depressing. Frankly, many noble Lords seemed to be depressingly suspicious of our motives. This is all about improving care for children at the front line. Nobody who has worked closely with my ministerial colleague Mr Timpson could possibly doubt that. He literally has care for children in his DNA, his late mother having fostered more than 80 children and adopted several, and his having worked as a professional in this field for many years. I am extremely grateful to my noble friends Lady Eatwell and Lord True, who are hugely knowledgeable on the inner workings of local authorities in this area, and to my noble friends Lord Farmer and Lord O’Shaughnessy and my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay, for their support.

The noble Lords, Lord Watson and Lord Low, asked for examples of why this power is necessary. The noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, mentioned three examples. We have discussed this at length before. Local authorities, including the very best, tell us that this power will provide them with opportunities to innovate which are simply not available under current legislation. Of course, some local authorities provide very good services under the current legislative framework, but children deserve the very best services, not the best within the current constraints of the good but not perfect legislative framework.

During the course of this debate, I have reflected on a number of points that have been made. The noble Baroness, Lady Howarth, talked about a lot of misinformation in the system and a lot of suspicion, which may affect some noble Lords’ suspicion. It is our job as lawmakers to see through suspicion and see the arguments for what they truly are, and it is the Government’s job to clarify the position with stakeholders. I commit to doing everything we can to explain more fully what this is about, because it is clear that we need to do more in that regard.

I have also reflected on something that my noble friend Lady Eaton and the noble Lord, Lord Low, said. I have huge respect for the noble Lord and I was struck by how suspicious he was of our motives in this regard. I have thought about this in relation to Clause 32. Without Clause 32, it would be impossible to say that this is about dismantling local authorities because these provisions can be initiated only by local authorities. Clause 32 was intended to be a technical clause to clarify that whoever is discharging the local authority’s functions, whether it is a trust or the Secretary of State, has the ability to use the power to test different ways of working. As I have said previously, we anticipate working with our strongest local authorities in the first instance, rather than intervention authorities, and there was never any immediate policy intent for the power to be used in this way; nor was the intention to cut local partners out of decision-making. However, I understand that this point may have caused unnecessary concern to noble Lords. It is critical that local government should feel it owns these clauses. If the provisions in Clause 32 are a block to that, I am very happy to reconsider the point completely. I think that would remove the fear expressed by the noble Lord, Lord Low: there could be no question of a dark agenda on the part of the Government to dismantle local authorities, because only they would have the power to initiate these clauses. I hope this will go some considerable way towards reassuring noble Lords who have concerns on this point.

I will address some other points, particularly the amendments on the process of scrutinising applications. I start with the amendment in the names of the noble Lords, Lord Warner and Lord Watson. As I have said, we have listened to noble Lords on this point and tabled a government amendment to introduce an expert advisory panel to scrutinise applications to use the power, and publish its advice. I believe we have gone a long way towards satisfying noble Lords’ concerns in this area.

Amendments 62 and 65, tabled by the noble Lords, Lord Watson and Lord Hunt, are on the Children’s Improvement Board. I entirely understand the intent behind these amendments, and the noble Lords are right that local government has a very important part to play in scrutinising applications. We propose that this be done through the Children’s Improvement Board feeding in views to a local government representative on the expert advisory panel, which I have already referred to. My officials will work with the LGA and others to work out the details of this process, but I think that would be preferable to naming an informal grouping in the Bill. The grouping could change its constitution or its name at any stage and therefore render itself unable to be consulted. I do not think that would be the right way forward.

Turning to the amendments that address the principle of these clauses, the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, referred to organisations which object to the power. However, it is overwhelmingly the organisations on the front line, and those that represent them, which support these clauses and agree with the Government that overregulation can get in the way of innovation. The LGA has said that it strongly supports the principle of allowing councils to shape provision around the needs of children and young people, rather than the constraints of inflexible regulation. Similarly, the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives has said that the tight regulation and inspection regimes applied to children’s social care provide little opportunity for innovation, and that the proposed power to innovate will enable local councils to try different approaches with appropriate safeguards.

Our partners in practice, 11 of the best and most innovative local authorities from across the country, support this. For instance, Leeds City Council has said that it wants to work in partnership with government to remove barriers that get in the way of best practice, and become an exemplar of a new and more sustainable safeguarding system in which children do better because families are supported to do more and the state has to intervene less. Professor Eileen Munro, whose ground-breaking review into child protection is at heart of our case for the power, supports these clauses. She has said of the power that it is,

“a critical part of the journey”,

set out in her independent review and that,

“testing innovation in a controlled way to establish the consequences of the change, before any national roll out, is a sensible and proportionate way forward”.

Anthony Douglas, chief executive of Cafcass, has described the power to innovate as a,

“crucial requirement if the mainstream social work and social care services of the future are to successfully manage demand, improve quality and provide value for money”’.

The National IRO Managers Partnership sees the opportunity given by the clauses to test new approaches, and has said that the clauses are,

“an opportunity to review practice and develop more innovative approaches and models of support across the whole system of children’s services”.

Finally, Chris Wright, chief executive of Catch22, a charity that is at the forefront of delivering innovative services, makes the case for the power well. He says:

“It will give power back to practitioners and professionals at the local level, supporting them to design programmes that work for the specific children in their care”.

This illustrates that a very significant amount of support exists for the Government’s case that regulation can get in the way of innovation, and that the approach we are taking of introducing a grass-roots power that allows local authorities to come forward with ideas, with careful safeguards, is the right one.

I understand the concerns expressed by noble Lords about delegated powers of this type and about whether the power is proportionate. I stress that this is absolutely not about Government bypassing Parliament on matters of legislation. It is about local authorities, Parliament and Ministers working in partnership to test new approaches and build the evidence for a better legislative framework for all children. Every use of the power will be rigorously scrutinised ahead of being debated, to ensure that it is truly in the best interests of children. Parliament will have the ultimate say on every use of the power.

The noble Lord, Lord Warner, made the point about using a sledgehammer to crack a nut. I suggest that in voting out this clause, noble Lords would be using a sledgehammer to deny the system the opportunity to test a very limited way of working with the aim of improving the lives of young people. The noble Lord asked for evidence, but it is not until we test ideas in practice—in a very limited way—that we can get that evidence, rather than just talking about a lot of theoretical ideas.

Lord Warner Portrait Lord Warner
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I was making a slightly different point. Where is this groundswell of concern which accumulated in the DfE before it produced the legislation to suggest that this is necessary?

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I have already quoted a number of practitioners who have stated the need for it. As I have said, if we remove Clause 32—which I am quite prepared to look at doing—we will deal with many of the shadows that some noble Lords have raised.

The Government have listened and made substantial steps to put safeguards in place around the use of the power. The Children’s Minister and I remain ready at any time to discuss these clauses further. Professor Eileen Munro talked about doing the right thing, rather than doing things right, and that is what this power is all about. If these clauses are removed, noble Lords would be denying local authorities that can see a better way of working for the benefit of the children in their care the opportunity to test the whole system and learn how we can do things better, giving those children the opportunity of a better life.

Lord True Portrait Lord True
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Before my noble friend sits down, there is an important point. Is he saying that once the House has considered what he said and reflected on it, he would not oppose Amendment 66, which would leave out Clause 32, while on the other hand he would wish to keep the innovation clauses? That would, as he has said, leave all the innovation coming up from the professions and from local authorities, and remove the suspicion that the state might impose something.

Lord Ramsbotham Portrait Lord Ramsbotham
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am very grateful to the Minister for the careful and considered summing up. I am particularly struck by the remark about Clause 32, which is all about the introduction of the Secretary of State. Before I go on, is the Minister seriously proposing that the Secretary of State should be removed from the process?

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

No, I am not proposing that. I am proposing that where a local authority is no longer in charge of its own destiny, as it were, the Secretary of State cannot use the power herself.

Amendment 54 agreed.
Moved by
55: Clause 29, page 20, line 32, leave out subsections (6) and (7)
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17:49

Division 1

Ayes: 245


Labour: 124
Liberal Democrat: 70
Crossbench: 42
Independent: 3
Bishops: 2
Green Party: 1
Plaid Cymru: 1

Noes: 213


Conservative: 187
Crossbench: 20
Democratic Unionist Party: 2
Ulster Unionist Party: 2
Bishops: 1
Independent: 1

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Baroness Wheeler Portrait Baroness Wheeler
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My Lords, I again offer the support of these Benches for Amendments 69 and 71, the case for which has been comprehensively set out and argued today by the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, and other noble Lords, and in the debate in Committee. Like other noble Lords, I am grateful for the excellent briefings and guidance from the Children’s Rights Alliance for England, the Equality and Human Rights Commission and the Joint Committee on Human Rights. All three bodies underlined the key opportunity presented by the Bill to promote the rights and well-being of children in care and care leavers by placing a statutory duty on public authorities to have due regard to the UN convention.

Like other noble Lords, I hope that the Minister has reflected on his assertion in Committee that a statutory UNCRC duty would not have any real impact on children’s lives. He knows that the 2010 ministerial commitment to give due consideration to the CRC in all new legislation and policy has not led to the widespread change in mindset and culture across government departments that he acknowledges is vitally needed. Implementation of the Written Ministerial Statement has been both piecemeal and ad hoc, as we have heard.

The CRAE freedom of information discovery, and the single Department for Education example across government of any detailed analysis of the CRC and children’s rights being undertaken—and then only on one Bill—show just how far away we are from children’s rights routinely informing the development of law, policy and everyday practice nationally and locally. Indeed, the EHRC has pointed out that the DfE did not go into the level of detail that would have been expected had the statutory obligation been in force. For example, it did not look at the numbers of children affected or of those disproportionately affected, or provide a sufficient level of evidence to explain how conclusions on projected impacts had been reached. I look forward to hearing the Minister’s view of the experience of embedding children’s rights in law in Scotland and Wales, because there is strong evidence, as noble Lords have underlined, that the measures taken in both countries are starting to have the meaningful and practical effect he seeks.

Under Amendment 71, a children’s rights framework would embed the CRC within children’s services and public authorities working with children and families in England. Although many local authorities make reference to the CRC, few have an explicit child rights plan or strategy in place, and there is limited knowledge and understanding of the value of the child rights impact assessment as a key tool. A consistent approach to policy and practice is needed, using the CRC as a framework with nationally available guidance and support.

In a period of unprecedented cuts to public and local authority services, using the CRC to help safeguard children’s rights and ensure a rights-based approach to services is more important than ever. The CRAE has emphasised that too many children continue to experience daily systematic violations of their rights. Just last week we saw Shelter’s shocking report estimating that at least 121,000 homeless children in England, Scotland and Wales face Christmas in stopgap lodgings—the highest figure since 2007.

As the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, underlined, this year’s report from the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child expressed serious concern at the impact of the Government’s recent fiscal policies and allocation of resources, and the disproportionate effect on disadvantaged children. I hope the Government will seize the opportunity presented by these amendments to address these very worrying concerns.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am grateful to noble Lords for their amendments and for raising the important matter of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. This Government recognise the importance of the UNCRC and are fully committed to giving due consideration to the articles when making new policies and legislation. I also reassure noble Lords that one of the top priorities for this Government is the safety and well-being of children. In July, the Department for Education set out its vision of how reform of the children’s social care system will bring about improved outcomes for all children, particularly the most vulnerable.

At a local and national level, listening to the voices of children when determining what policies to develop, how those polices should be implemented and what services should be developed, should be second nature to us. Indeed, the Children Act 1989 requires that the local authority shall give due consideration to the child or young person’s wishes and feelings, having regard to their age and understanding, when taking decisions about them. We believe that the way to promote children’s rights is for strong practitioners locally to listen to children and to act in ways which best meet their needs. A duty alone will not do that, and risks practitioners focusing on the wording of the legislation rather than on practice. The Government will consider how best to strengthen compliance with the convention in a way which promotes better practice and a culture of focusing on children’s rights. In doing so, we will pay close attention to what is happening in Scotland and Wales.

Noble Lords will know that earlier this year in Geneva, the UK was commended for great strides made in legislation and in guidance to ensure that all children are protected from harm. Since the summer, the Government have reaffirmed their commitment to the UNCRC through a Written Ministerial Statement from the Minister for Vulnerable Children and Families. This reinforced our view that to achieve implementation of the UNCRC, every department across Westminster must be proactive in considering children’s rights in policy-making. This was followed up with a letter from the DfE Permanent Secretary, Jonathan Slater, to his counterparts across government, challenging them and all their officials to keep the principles and conventions of the UNCRC at the centre of their policy-making and implementation, and to engage children and young people in the process. We are talking to the Children’s Commissioner about how she might hold the Government to account in this respect. It is important that officials are equipped with the right knowledge and skills to make sure they can reflect children’s rights within a policy framework, and we are looking at how to introduce a cross-Whitehall learning and development programme to help officials develop the best policies that take account of children’s rights and work effectively for children.

Noble Lords who have tabled these amendments clearly have considerable expertise and experience in this area, and they raise a very important point about whether more can be done in England to ensure that children’s rights are reflected adequately in our policy-making and implementation. I am grateful to noble Lords for tabling these amendments. I emphasise, however, that introducing new duties is not a step to be taken lightly. There are a number of additional steps we could consider, and we are keen to explore the benefits of the different potential approaches before deciding what further action might be taken. We therefore intend to revisit the significant action already taken to embed the UNCRC across Whitehall and beyond, and consider where there are opportunities to go further to better achieve the outcome we all want: for the rights of children to inform our policy thinking and service delivery.

Lord Lester of Herne Hill Portrait Lord Lester of Herne Hill
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Having heard the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope of Craighead, does the Minister appreciate that there is a constitutional problem? The noble and learned Lord explained that even though the Convention on the Rights of the Child has not been made part of our law, the courts are still having regard to it and doing their best to comply with it. Would it not be much better if Parliament now turned that practice into something constitutionally even more respectable by making the convention part of our law, in the way that the Human Rights Act makes the European Convention on Human Rights part of our law?

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I heard what the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, said, and I will take that back and discuss it further, along with the point he made about the case to which he referred. I am happy to continue discussions with noble Lords who have contributed to this debate. I know that they have already had productive conversations in the past week with the Minister for Vulnerable Children and Families, although not as productive as they would have liked. I would expect those to continue. The DfE will look at all options open to us, but I regret that I cannot commit to a timetable, nor can I commit to returning to the issue before Third Reading. However, noble Lords should be reassured of our very firm intention to take further action. In view of this, I hope they will feel reassured enough to withdraw their amendments.

Baroness Walmsley Portrait Baroness Walmsley
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I thank the Minister for his response. I thank my noble friend Lord Lester, the noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf, the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, and the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, who, I am delighted to say, mentioned UNICEF’s very effective Rights Respecting Schools programme. I wonder whether the noble and learned Lord, Lord Hope, agrees with me that if we had had the duty we are proposing in these amendments, perhaps fewer cases would have come to the Supreme Court for him to make a decision on.

We do not have full incorporation of the UN Convention on the Rights of the Child into UK law. This amendment falls far short of full incorporation. It is limited to functions relating to safeguarding and the welfare of children, and they would be enormously helpful as a first—not a last—consideration when setting policy in the specific areas that are in the scope of the Bill.

Nobody is suggesting that the duty to have due regard is a silver bullet. As the Minister said, we of course have to improve what practitioners do on the ground and the culture within which they work. I called in aid what has happened about the PSED: it has certainly had that effect in the area of equalities. The Government seem to be determined to consider everything else first, rather than put into UK law the rights that children have as a result of the fact that we are signatories to the convention. I do not quite understand it.

We have heard from the Minister this evening and the Minister in another place yesterday that consultations will take place across Whitehall. I asked Mr Timpson how long that would take and whether it could take place in the two weeks between now and Third Reading. He said that would be rather ambitious because of the time it normally takes to have those consultations. I would like to be sure that those consultations will start straight away, following this evening’s debate so that, by the time we get to Third Reading, we could be convinced that the Government are determined to ensure that children’s rights are at the heart of policy-making. I am afraid we have not had that assurance this evening, so we are going to have to come back to this. The Minister has told us that talks can continue, and I am sure that the noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf, and I will be very happy to continue them.

In the meantime, as has been said, the Government are missing an opportunity to send out the right message to the rest of the world, and particularly the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child, by accepting one or other of these amendments. I have not convinced the Minister so far, but I can assure him this is not the end of it.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

It might help the noble Baroness to know that I have been informed that we are starting talks with the devolved Administrations this week, so that part of the consultation has started.

Baroness Walmsley Portrait Baroness Walmsley
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the Minister. I am aware that that is happening and it is very good. However, that is not the same thing as consulting all departments across Whitehall on how they could implement the “have regard” duty. That is what we would like to see starting.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will take that back and see if we can do it.

Baroness Walmsley Portrait Baroness Walmsley
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the Minister and look forward to hearing what ball has started rolling between now and Third Reading. For the moment, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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Earl of Listowel Portrait The Earl of Listowel (CB)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I welcome the Government’s Statement. I am remembering an experience I had about 15 years ago, getting acquainted with a young Afghan woman in a hostel over several months. Each week when I saw her, she would be either in tears or very sad. She spoke a certain dialect of Pashto, and a translator was needed to be brought across London to help her communicate with others. She was a very lonely, isolated young woman. I remember arriving one day and hearing that she was in tears again. Her family’s city was being shelled, but she could not communicate with them to know what was happening. We cannot underestimate the trauma that many of these young people have experienced.

I would like to follow the noble Baroness, Lady Lister, in asking about their experience after they leave care. The strategy of distributing young people across England, which began in July, is very welcome, but there is concern that there may be lack of expertise within the new receiving local authorities. I would appreciate reassurance about how that expertise is being developed. In particular, there is always the concern that professionals are not giving young people—that is, unaccompanied asylum-seeking children—information early enough to clarify their immigration status. I thank the Minister for that nod.

It would be very helpful to get more information about what happens to these young people when they leave care—for example, data on whether they return home voluntarily or disappear from sight altogether. All that kind of information would be helpful in terms of understanding their welfare needs into the future. I will not speak further now. I look forward to the Minister’s response.

Baroness Williams of Trafford Portrait The Minister of State, Home Office (Baroness Williams of Trafford) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am very grateful to the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, the right reverend Prelate the Bishop of Durham, the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan, and the noble Lord, Lord Watson of Invergowrie, for this amendment on the vital issue of the safeguarding of unaccompanied asylum-seeking and refugee children. The noble Lord, Lord Dubs, really wanted to be here tonight but is attending the small matter of a presidential election. He toyed with the question of which one to attend but, as I understand it, could not get a flight home—and that is genuinely why he is not here tonight. I echo the right reverend Prelate’s words about the work that the Churches do—they do sterling work—especially, as I mentioned earlier today, the role they have played in the community sponsorship scheme, a scheme in which the most reverend Primate the Archbishop of Canterbury also is engaged. Schemes such as that are very beneficial indeed to some of the people coming to this country.

The Government are committed to safeguarding and promoting the welfare of children and providing help for those in genuine need of international protection. In the light of the events of the past few weeks around the closure of the camp in Calais, we agreed that further action needs to be taken to supplement existing safeguarding guidance and practices and to ensure that we continue to act in the best interests of those children arriving in the UK.

Our priority throughout has been to ensure the safety and welfare of the children, whether they are transferred here or arrive of their own accord. We have already taken significant action. In July, for example, we implemented the national transfer scheme to promote a fairer distribution of care responsibility among local authorities across the country. That was accompanied by very substantial increases in Home Office funding to local authorities. We have also worked closely with France and other EU countries, with local authorities here, and with other partners to transfer eligible children to the UK as quickly as proper safeguarding procedures and other necessary checks will allow.

Since 10 October more than 60 girls—many of whom have been identified as at high risk of sexual exploitation —have arrived in the UK and are now receiving the care and support that noble Lords talked about. In total, we have transferred more than 300 children. More are expected to follow in the coming days and weeks.

We are in full agreement that there is absolute value in a strategy setting out how we will safeguard these unaccompanied children. However, we believe that this intention would be better served through the commitments given on 1 November in the Written Ministerial Statement by the Minister for Vulnerable Children and Families and the Minister for Immigration. The strategy that the Government have committed to publish by 1 May 2017 will reinforce the comprehensive protection that we already provide for unaccompanied asylum-seeking children in this country and for those who have been transferred here from Europe, whether they are reunited with family members or looked after by a local authority. To reiterate, the care they receive is exactly what we would expect to provide for UK children. These children are no different.

We will also set out plans to increase foster care capacity for those children who are looked after and will consider what further action can be taken to prevent them from going missing. This will ensure they receive the best support possible while seeking refuge in our country. Additionally, we will review what information is communicated to these children about their rights and their entitlements, revise statutory guidance provided to local authorities on how to support and care for them, and regularly review the level of funding that is granted to assist them in doing so. To ensure that we are held to account on our progress, we will provide annual updates to Parliament and more regular quarterly updates to the Children’s Commissioners across the UK.

We believe that the commitments we have given are the best approach to safeguarding the welfare of these children. I fully agree with the spirit of this amendment, as I said to the noble Lord, Lord Dubs, but primary legislation on this matter would limit our ability to respond to what is a complex and developing situation across Europe and beyond. That is why we set out our commitments through the WMS. This approach also enables us to take proper account of the devolved responsibility for safeguarding matters, which the amendment would not. We welcome the support of local authorities across the UK in dealing with the needs of unaccompanied children and will continue to work closely with them and with the devolved Administrations on these issues.

The Government are determined to do everything we can to protect these unaccompanied children. Their welfare in the UK is our first priority. That is why the comprehensive strategy we have committed to publish will build on the actions that we have already taken and go further to ensure that these children are, and remain, safeguarded.

The Government are also clear that we must do everything possible to prevent children from undertaking these perilous journeys to Europe. That is why we have pledged over £2.3 billion in response to the crisis in Syria and resettled nearly 3,000 people, half of whom are children, under the Syrian vulnerable persons resettlement scheme. We remain committed to resettling 20,000 of the most vulnerable Syrian refugees direct from the region and, in addition, we have established a new resettlement scheme focused on vulnerable children in the Middle East and north Africa.

I had some answers to the questions asked by the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan. She said that there was no mention of Section 67. The WMS goes wider than the proposed amendment, and those transferred from Europe includes those under Section 67, as Section 67 is not actually a resettlement route. The other question is about how many Home Office officials were in the camp and supported the clearance. There were several hundred supporting the camp clearance. I have said this many times at this Dispatch Box, but we can operate in France only in ways agreed with the French Government. We cannot just go in and do what we would. I hope that the noble Baroness will be content not to press her amendment.

Baroness Lister of Burtersett Portrait Baroness Lister of Burtersett
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I did ask two very specific questions, or raised two issues. Maybe the Minister cannot answer them now, but will she undertake to write to me about them, please? They were about what happens to the children when they reach the age of 18 and guardianship.

Baroness Williams of Trafford Portrait Baroness Williams of Trafford
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

On a child reaching 18, obviously the needs of every child who comes here are different, depending on the circumstances. If a child is in local authority care and is in that transition period into adulthood, it would be exactly the same process as a child from this country—and it may be that the child is returning to their country. I can lay it out in more detail for the noble Baroness, but each situation is different. Was there a second question?

Baroness Williams of Trafford Portrait Baroness Williams of Trafford
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I shall write to the noble Baroness on that.

Baroness Sheehan Portrait Baroness Sheehan
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the Minister for her reply and accept that there were a lot of Home Office officials during the evacuation of the minors from the shipping containers. The question I asked was about how many officials there were after the evacuation, because my information was that there were not very many.

Baroness Williams of Trafford Portrait Baroness Williams of Trafford
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I cannot give the noble Baroness a specific figure, because the figures change all the time depending on the capacity that is needed at the camp at various times.

Lord Watson of Invergowrie Portrait Lord Watson of Invergowrie
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, this has been a vigorous debate on a very important subject with a very broad base of agreement. I take on board the points made by the noble Baroness, Lady Sheehan—I was not aware of that before, but I think that the Minister has answered the question on Section 67 of the Immigration Act, and the two points raised by my noble friend Lady Lister will be addressed by letter. All in all, and given what was said at the outset—that my noble friend Lord Dubs was very satisfied with the Statement—I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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19:13

Division 2

Ayes: 68


Liberal Democrat: 59
Crossbench: 5
Green Party: 1
Plaid Cymru: 1

Noes: 203


Conservative: 154
Labour: 28
Crossbench: 13
Independent: 3
Democratic Unionist Party: 2
Ulster Unionist Party: 1
Bishops: 1
UK Independence Party: 1

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Moved by
71A: Before Clause 34, insert the following new Clause—
“Social Work England
(1) A body corporate called Social Work England is established.(2) Social Work England is referred to in this Part as “the regulator”.(3) Schedule (Social Work England) makes further provision about the regulator. (4) The Secretary of State may by regulations rename Social Work England.(5) Regulations under subsection (4) may include consequential amendments to any provision contained in or made under this or any other Act.”
Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I thank noble Lords for the supportive work and consultation across the House since Committee, which has substantially strengthened the Bill in this regard. I speak on behalf of both the Department for Education and the Department of Health in saying how much we value the expertise that noble Lords across the House have added to the debate. We have listened carefully to their concerns and have tabled a number of amendments to reflect them. I hope noble Lords will recognise how far we have come.

I shall now pause to hear the responses of noble Lords to what I have said and to allow them to speak to their amendments.

Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Portrait Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I thank the noble Lord, Lord Nash, his ministerial colleagues and officials because we had the opportunity for a series of meetings between Committee and Report which have culminated in the amendments the noble Lord has brought before your Lordships’ House tonight. I am grateful to him and his colleagues.

Clearly we now have an independent regulator, overseen by the Professional Standards Authority, and we are happy with that outcome. For the social work profession, the improvement agenda and the regulatory agenda this is a sensible way forward.

I have couple of points to mention to the Minister to which he may wish to respond in writing. First, on the issue of the transition, there is a question of whether the cases now being held by the existing regulator will remain with that regulator or will transfer to the new regulator when it has been set up. My advice to the Government would be to leave those cases with the existing regulator so that the new regulator can start with a clean sheet. The Government will need to consider this and I would be happy for the Minister to write to me in due course.

Secondly, the PSA feels that the powers have perhaps been too widely drawn. I understand the Government are looking at this issue. Perhaps the Minister could confirm that. Thirdly, can he confirm that the consultation on the establishment of the regulator will be extensive?

On fees, I understand from the note that we have seen that, in essence, the setting-up costs will be met by the Minister’s department, which will also meet the additional costs of the new regulator, and that the commitment is to the next Parliament. If he could confirm that, I would be extremely grateful.

Overall, I am happy with the outcome.

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Lord Warner Portrait Lord Warner
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I echo the support given by other parts of the House to the Minister. I am grateful for the fact that Edward Timpson was very much in listening mode. He was extremely helpful in taking forward and dealing with the concerns many of us had with the original version of Part 2.

I echo the point made by the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, regarding the PSA’s concerns about how widely the powers have been drawn. It has been given powers to go to the High Court, which is not the arrangement it has with all the other health and care regulators. It is pretty nervous about the cost implications. Also, on the point the noble Lord made about the transition arrangements, a very large number of cases need to be dealt with, and there needs to be an orderly transfer.

My name has been added to Amendment 116, the intention of which is to get the Minister to explain why the affirmative resolution procedure applies to most of this part of the Bill, but the negative procedure applies to changing the name of the regulator. Is there some cunning plot in the DfE regarding another lot of names they have in mind?

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble Lords, Lord Hunt and Lord Warner, for their comments. I will write to the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, about the transition arrangements. His advice is helpful. I can reassure noble Lords that we have no intention of expanding the PSA’s role in relation to its power to appeal cases to the High Court, but I will cover that in a letter to the noble Lord.

On funding Social Work England, we will ensure that any set-up costs will not fall on social workers themselves, and we are committed to supporting its running costs. Social workers already pay one of the lowest fees of any profession and we are determined to keep these as low as possible. It is of course normal practice for professional regulation fees to be subject to review from time to time. However, the amendments will ensure that Social Work England will also have to seek the approval of the Secretary of State before determining the level of fees. This will allow Ministers to exercise appropriate control over any future plans by the regulator to increase fees. I hope that reassures the noble Lord.

On the issue raised by the noble Lord, Lord Warner, we have reflected the principle he wanted in Amendment 115, which inserts a new clause to make specific provision for parliamentary procedures relating to regulations made under Part 2. This sets out that all regulations in the main body of Part 2 will be subject to the affirmative procedure. There is an exception for renaming the regulator. Frankly, that is because we believe a name change represents a relatively minor change and the negative procedure allows for sufficient scrutiny. A name change would, of course, not involve any change to the fundamental objectives and functions of the regulator or any of the other provisions governing the regulator’s operations. I hope the noble Lord is reassured to hear that, and that noble Lords are happy with the amendments.

Amendment 71A agreed.
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Moved by
71B: Before Clause 34, insert the following new Clause—
“Over-arching objective
(1) The over-arching objective of the regulator in exercising its functions is the protection of the public.(2) The pursuit by the regulator of its over-arching objective involves the pursuit of the following objectives—(a) to protect, promote and maintain the health, safety and well-being of the public;(b) to promote and maintain public confidence in social workers in England;(c) to promote and maintain proper professional standards for social workers in England.”
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Moved by
71C: Clause 34, leave out Clause 34
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Moved by
71D: Clause 35, leave out Clause 35
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Moved by
71E: Clause 36, page 23, line 17, leave out subsection (1) and insert—
“(1) The regulator must keep a register of social workers in England.(1A) The Secretary of State may by regulations require the regulator to keep a register of people who are undertaking education or training in England to become social workers.”
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Moved by
71M: Clause 37, page 24, line 2, leave out “Social worker regulations may” and insert “The Secretary of State may by regulations”
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Moved by
71P: Clause 38, page 24, line 9, leave out subsection (1) and insert—
“(1) The regulator must determine and publish professional standards for social workers in England.“(1A) If the regulator is required to keep a register of students, it must determine and publish standards of conduct or ethics for registered students.(1B) Before determining a standard under this section the regulator must—(a) consult such persons as the regulator considers appropriate, and(b) obtain the Secretary of State’s approval of the standard.”
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Moved by
71T: Clause 39, page 24, line 27, leave out subsection (1) and insert—
“(1) The regulator must, in relation to people who are or who wish to become social workers in England, determine and publish standards of education or training.(1A) Before determining a standard under this section the regulator must—(a) consult such persons as the regulator considers appropriate, and(b) obtain the Secretary of State’s approval of the standard.”
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Moved by
71YF: Clause 40, page 25, line 2, leave out subsection (1) and insert—
“(1) The regulator must—(a) make arrangements for protecting the public from social workers in England whose fitness to practise is impaired, and(b) make arrangements for taking other disciplinary action against social workers in England.(1A) The Secretary of State may by regulations require the regulator to make arrangements for taking disciplinary action against registered students.(1B) The Secretary of State may by regulations make further provision about—(a) fitness to practise as a social worker in England,(b) discipline of social workers in England or registered students, and(c) the arrangements to be made under subsection (1) or (1A).”
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Moved by
74: Clause 41, page 25, line 19, leave out “Social worker regulations may” and insert “The Secretary of State may by regulations”
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Moved by
76: Clause 42, page 25, line 31, leave out subsection (1)
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Moved by
83: Clause 43, page 26, leave out lines 9 and 10 and insert—
“(1) The regulator may publish or disclose information about any matter relating to its functions or give advice about any matter relating to its functions.(2) The Secretary of State may by regulations —(a) make provision requiring the regulator to publish or disclose information, or give advice, under subsection (1);(b) make other provision supplementing subsection (1).”
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Moved by
85: Clause 44, page 26, leave out lines 12 and 13 and insert—
“(1) The regulator must where appropriate co-operate with the following in the exercise of its functions—(a) Social Care Wales,(b) the Scottish Social Services Council,(c) the Northern Ireland Social Care Council, and (d) any other person specified in regulations made by the Secretary of State.(2) Until section 67(3) of the Regulation and Inspection of Social Care (Wales) Act 2016 (anaw 2) comes fully into force, the reference in subsection (1)(a) to Social Care Wales is to be read as a reference to the Care Council for Wales.”
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Moved by
87: Clause 45, page 26, line 15, leave out subsections (1) to (3) and insert—
“( ) The Secretary of State may make a scheme for the transfer of property, rights and liabilities from the Health and Care Professions Council (the “old regulator”) to Social Work England.( ) The things that may be transferred under a transfer scheme include—(a) property, rights and liabilities that could not otherwise be transferred;(b) property acquired, and rights and liabilities arising, after the making of the scheme.”
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Moved by
91: Clause 46, page 27, line 9, leave out “Social worker regulations may” and insert “The Secretary of State may by regulations”
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Moved by
99: Clause 47, page 27, leave out lines 30 to 32 at end insert—
“(1) The Secretary of State may make grants to the regulator.(2) A grant under this section may be made subject to any conditions the Secretary of State thinks are appropriate.”
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Moved by
100: After Clause 47, insert the following new Clause—
“Information for Secretary of State
The regulator must provide any information that the Secretary of State requests in relation to the exercise of the regulator’s functions.”
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Moved by
102: Clause 48, page 27, line 35, leave out from beginning to “create” and insert “The Secretary of State may by regulations”
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Moved by
107: Clause 49, page 28, line 7, leave out “Social worker regulations” and insert “Regulations under this Part”
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Moved by
112: Clause 50, page 28, line 20, leave out “social worker regulations” and insert “regulations under this Part”
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Moved by
115: After Clause 50, insert the following new Clause—
“Parliamentary procedure for regulations
(1) Regulations under section (Social Work England) (renaming of Social Work England) are subject to the negative resolution procedure.(2) Any other regulations under this Part are subject to the affirmative resolution procedure.”
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Baroness Walmsley Portrait Baroness Walmsley
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, my name is also on this amendment. The noble Lord, Lord Warner, has explained the reasons for it extremely cogently. The Government are trying to make a change at a time of considerable turbulence among social workers, both those who work with children and those who work with adults. As the noble Lord, Lord Hunt, has just said, further change is coming down the track.

I hope that the Government will accept the principle of review, learn and, if necessary, act after five years, by which time the changes in regulation that they are proposing will have had time to embed and we will have had the chance to see whether they have achieved the improvements that the Government are looking for. I can understand the Government’s wish to go about it in the way that they are doing given their requirement for considerable improvement in social work but, as the noble Lord, Lord Warner, clearly pointed out there is a good case for standing back after a reasonable period and looking at it again to see whether it has worked as everybody hopes it will.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am grateful for noble Lords tabling Amendment 117 and welcome the intention behind it. We are committed to ensuring that these provisions and the work of Social Work England are independently reviewed. It is crucial that we ensure that the provisions bring about the reforms that are needed and that they remain fit for purpose.

I am sure that noble Lords agree that we must avoid any potential for the social work profession not to be regulated, but we should not risk the regulatory oversight of the profession being in any way uncertain. I can reassure noble Lords that this Government are making substantial investment in social work reform and will not leave the success of the body to chance. I can commit to go further than promising to reflect on the matter and meet the noble Lords who have raised this issue.

To ensure that Social Work England remains fit for purpose and carries out its functions effectively—and at the risk of being accused of trying to end this stage of consideration of the Bill on a high—I want to signal now my intention to table an amendment at Third Reading that commits on the face of the Bill to the carrying out of a formal independent review of the regulator five years from the point that Social Work England becomes fully operational. We will require the review to be laid before Parliament.

I anticipate that the review will consider the operation of the regulator with particular regard to its governance and oversight arrangements. I will also require those undertaking the review to consult representatives of the social work profession and other interested parties. I also reassure noble Lords that, following the review and discussions with Members of Parliament and Peers, the Secretary of State for Education and the Secretary of State for Health will be required to publish a response setting out the actions that will be taken.

I wholly agree with noble Lords that appropriate measures need to be in place to ensure that these provisions are independently reviewed. As I set out earlier, the Professional Standards Authority will undertake an independent review annually on how Social Work England discharges its functions. The amendment that I will propose will strengthen these measures further.

I hope that the commitments that I have set out tonight—that an annual report will be published by the Professional Standards Authority, and the tabling of an amendment that would see a full independent review after the first five years of Social Work England’s operation published and accompanied by a statement from both Secretaries of State setting out clearly their response—will reassure noble Lords of the Government’s commitment to getting this right not just now, but in the future. I am happy to meet noble Lords to discuss the details further, but in view of these commitments I hope that the noble Lord will agree to withdraw the amendment.

Lord Warner Portrait Lord Warner
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am astonished. The Minister seems to have got over his earlier depression and I am very grateful to him for his response. On that basis, I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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Moved by
118: Clause 52, page 29, line 10, at end insert—
““professional standards” includes standards relating to—proficiency;performance;conduct and ethics;continuing professional training and development;”
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Moved by
121: Clause 53, page 29, line 30, leave out “of social workers”
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Moved by
131: Clause 54, page 30, line 18, leave out “the regulator of social workers” and insert “Social Work England”
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Moved by
136: Clause 59, page 31, line 34, at end insert—
“( ) Sections 56, 57 and 58 extend to England and Wales and Scotland.”
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Moved by
137: After Clause 61, insert the following new Schedule—
“SCHEDULESOCIAL WORK ENGLANDStatus
1_(1) The regulator is not to be regarded—(a) as a servant or agent of the Crown, or(b) as enjoying any status, immunity or privilege of the Crown._(2) The members and staff of the regulator are not to be regarded as Crown servants.Members
2_ The regulator is to consist of— (a) a chair appointed by the Secretary of State, and(b) such other members as the Secretary of State may appoint.Term of office
3_ A member holds and vacates office in accordance with the terms of the member’s appointment (subject as follows).4_ A member may resign by giving written notice to the Secretary of State.5_ The Secretary of State may by notice in writing remove a member who—(a) has without reasonable excuse failed to discharge the functions of his or her office, or(b) in the opinion of the Secretary of State is otherwise unable or unfit to carry out his or her duties.Remuneration and pensions
6_ The regulator may pay to the members such remuneration, allowances and expenses as the Secretary of State may decide.7_ If required to do so by the Secretary of State, the regulator must—(a) pay such pensions or gratuities to or in respect of any member as the Secretary of State may decide;(b) pay such sums as the Secretary of State may decide towards provision for the payment of pensions or gratuities to or in respect of any member.Staff
8_(1) The regulator must appoint a person to be chief executive, but may only appoint a person who has been approved by the Secretary of State._(2) The chief executive is an employee of the regulator._(3) The Secretary of State may appoint the first chief executive.9_ The regulator may appoint other staff.10_(1) The regulator’s staff may be appointed on such terms, including relating to remuneration and pension arrangements, as the regulator may decide._(2) The regulator must obtain the Secretary of State’s approval for any terms relating to remuneration or pension arrangements.Procedure
11_ The regulator may determine its own procedure (including quorum).12_ No proceeding is invalidated by—(a) a vacancy in the office of chair, or(b) a defect in the appointment of any member.Delegation
13_(1) The regulator may delegate functions to a committee, sub-committee, member or member of staff._(2) The functions that may be delegated under sub-paragraph (1)—(a) include the power conferred by that sub-paragraph, but(b) do not include any power or duty to make rules.14_(1) The regulator may delegate functions to any other person if—(a) the regulator considers that the delegation is likely to lead to an improvement in the exercise of its functions, and(b) the person has agreed to the terms of the delegation._(2) The functions that may be delegated under sub-paragraph (1) do not include—(a) the power conferred by that sub-paragraph, or(b) any power or duty to make rules. _(3) The terms of a delegation under sub-paragraph (1) may include terms requiring payments by the regulator.15_(1) A function may be delegated under paragraph 13 or 14—(a) wholly or partly;(b) generally or only in specified circumstances;(c) unconditionally or subject to specified conditions._(2) A delegation does not prevent the regulator (or the person making the delegation, if different) from exercising the function or making other arrangements for its exercise._(3) A delegation does not affect any liability or responsibility of the regulator for the exercise of its functions.Membership of committees and sub-committees
16_(1) A committee or sub-committee of the regulator may include persons who are not members of the regulator._(2) The regulator may pay such remuneration and allowances as the Secretary of State may determine to any person who—(a) is a member of a committee or sub-committee, but(b) is not a member or member of staff of the regulator.Annual reports and accounts
17_ As soon as possible after the end of each financial year, the regulator must send the Secretary of State a report on the exercise of its functions during the year.18_(1) The regulator must keep proper accounts and proper records in relation to the accounts._(2) The regulator must prepare a statement of accounts for each financial year._(3) The statement must be in such form as the Secretary of State may direct._(4) The regulator must send a copy of the statement to —(a) the Secretary of State, and(b) the Comptroller and Auditor General,within the time period directed by the Secretary of State._(5) The Comptroller and Auditor General must—(a) examine, certify and report on the statement of accounts, and(b) send a copy of the certified statement and of the report to the Secretary of State as soon as possible.19_ The Secretary of State must, in respect of each financial year, lay before Parliament a document consisting of—(a) the annual report sent under paragraph 17, and(b) the certified statement of accounts and report sent under paragraph 18(5)(b).20_ In paragraphs 17 to 19 “financial year” means—(a) the period beginning with the day on which this Schedule comes fully into force and ending with the following 31 March, and(b) every subsequent period of 12 months ending with 31 March.Application of seal and evidence
21_ The application of the regulator’s seal must be authenticated by the signature of—(a) a member of the regulator, or(b) any other person who is authorised (generally or specially) for that purpose.22_ A document purporting to be duly executed under the seal of the regulator—(a) is to be received in evidence, and(b) is to be treated as so executed unless the contrary is shown. Disqualification
23_ In Part 2 of Schedule 1 to the House of Commons Disqualification Act 1975 (bodies of which all members are disqualified), at the appropriate place insert—“Social Work England.”Freedom of information
24_ In Part 6 of Schedule 1 to the Freedom of Information Act 2000 (other public bodies and offices: general), at the appropriate place insert—“Social Work England.””

Children and Social Work Bill [HL]

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

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3rd reading (Hansard): House of Lords
Wednesday 23rd November 2016

(7 years, 11 months ago)

Lords Chamber
Children and Social Work Act 2017 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: HL Bill 69-I Marshalled list for Third Reading (PDF, 80KB) - (22 Nov 2016)

This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Children and Social Work Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Baroness Benjamin Portrait Baroness Benjamin (LD)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I rise briefly to support my noble friend’s amendment and congratulate her on all the hard work she has done to ensure that the Minister listens to what she has said. I have visited many schools recently, and I am really surprised at the number of children, especially those in care, who are suffering from depression and anxiety. If we can do anything to make sure that no child slips through the net, it would be perfect, because childhood lasts a lifetime and we must give children the best start in the world—especially children in care, who need us to consider them.

Lord Nash Portrait The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State, Department for Education (Lord Nash) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am delighted that we have come so far in our scrutiny of this Bill and are now debating the final amendments. I am sure that noble Lords will agree that the collected efforts of this House in bringing together different views and meeting a shared position have paid dividends that we can see in the Bill now before us.

I thank noble Lords for their time, attention and scrutiny, not only during the debates but in the many meetings and exchanges of correspondence between us. I am convinced that the House will be sending a Bill to the other place that will help ensure that all children, whatever their background, get the best start in life. I am grateful for this further opportunity to consider how collectively we can do more to promote the mental health and emotional well-being of looked-after children. As the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, said, we had a positive discussion when the Minister for Vulnerable Children and I met her on 7 November along with the co-chairs of the expert working group. I am pleased that the co-chairs, Alison O’Sullivan and Professor Peter Fonagy, were able to give a full account of their work.

We have listened very carefully to the arguments put forward by the noble Baroness and other noble Lords, and have reflected on the informative debates in Committee and on Report. The way in which the mental health of looked-after children is assessed, and the timing and scope of those assessments, is one of the key areas within the expert group’s remit. The group is currently collecting evidence about approaches to assessment so that the assessment happens at the right time and with the right people involved. The group intends to consider the pros and cons of specialist assessment and the optimum method of assessment. Its work will specifically reference the Development and Wellbeing Assessment, the Comprehensive Health Assessment Tool, and the use of the Strengths and Difficulties Questionnaire.

Our considered view, as I indicated on Report, is that we should not pre-empt the findings of the expert group. We need to let it develop its recommendations to be confident that we are making changes that will have the effect that I believe that we all, including the Department for Education, the Department of Health and NHS England, as well as noble Lords, want to see, and to which we are all committed. Of course, I completely understand the noble Baroness’s motivation: to ensure that opportunities to make progress are not lost ahead of October 2017, when the expert group is due to report, and I pay tribute to her for that. I am sure that the expert working group will want to engage with her and other noble Lords as it starts to consult expert witnesses.

I reassure the noble Baroness that we are not sitting idly waiting for the expert group to report. We are engaging with the Department of Health on its work with NHS England and Health Education England to identify how new training models for talking therapies might be expanded beyond healthcare services settings to, for example, school counsellors or those working in colleges. We are working with NHS England to roll out a new model of integrated mental health care in secure children’s homes to address needs holistically, co-ordinating the services of several providers. We have been testing the concept of a single point of contact in schools and CAMHS to improve collaborative working across schools and mental health services.

I also reiterate a commitment made on Report, which the Minister for Vulnerable Children has made to the Education Select Committee. The expert group plans to share the evidence base behind the chosen models and the pathway with interested parties, including noble Lords, in the spring. We are committed to acting on the findings of the expert group and will fully consider all the recommendations that it makes, including any recommendations that require legislation.

The amendment seeks to bolster what is already in Section 22 of the Children Act 1989, which places a general duty on local authorities to safeguard and promote the welfare of looked-after children. It is implicit that this means promoting their mental health and emotional well-being. Care planning regulations spell out what that means in more detail: undertaking health assessments that explicitly address mental and emotional health as well as physical health. I am very happy to revisit the relevant guidance and regulations to consider whether the terminology might benefit from being more explicit on the importance of mental health.

We had a helpful and constructive debate in Committee about strengthening the first corporate parenting principle in Clause 1 so that it included an explicit reference to mental and physical health. We have amended the Bill accordingly. In the accompanying statutory guidance we shall emphasise this further. Together with the principle that local authorities must have regard to the need to help looked-after children make the best use of services, it is a powerful lever to bring health to the table.

Alongside the work of the expert group, however, and given the importance of getting this right, I am very pleased to be able to tell the House that we will test new approaches to mental health assessments for looked-after children. We are in the early stages of working out what this should look like and we will want providers themselves, and children and young people, to help us develop and shape the model. We have not settled on the number of pilots, but our initial thinking is that between six and 10 would be sensible. Of course, we would want to ensure that they were representative in terms of factors such as urban and rural, and the characteristics of the looked-after population. What I can tell noble Lords today is that we plan to begin the pilots in April or May next year, and that they will run in parallel to the considerations of the expert working group. We intend to pilot mental health assessments as part of the existing health assessments that children receive when they start to be looked after.

We believe that running pilots in a number of local authority areas, potentially on a regional basis, to look at how mental health can be better assessed as part of the wider health assessment, will be complementary to the work of the expert group. It will also help to inform the implementation of any of its recommendations. These pilots will also guard against treating mental health in isolation from physical health and ensure that we address the needs of the whole child in a holistic manner. While I am not in a position to give chapter and verse on the details of the pilots this afternoon, I want to put on record our intention to develop and pilot a model of a holistic health assessment.

The point made by the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, about a postcode lottery and how we would quality-assure the delivery of these pilots is something that we will consider. It is an important point and we will ask the expert group to look at it. We will ensure that the pilots look at quality-assurance models to see how any assessment should be assured. The independent reviewing officers will also have a role in ensuring that plans deliver what children need.

I will say a personal thank you to the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, for her continued passion and commitment on this issue. I hope that the commitments that I have made today will provide sufficient reassurance for her to be able to withdraw her amendment.

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Moved by
2: Clause 2, page 2, line 39, at end insert—
“( ) relationships;”
Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, as noble Lords will be aware, Clause 2 requires local authorities to consult on and publish a local offer for care leavers. The local offer will set out the services provided by a local authority to assist its care leavers as they move into adulthood and independent living. It should include services relating to health and well-being, education and training, employment, accommodation, and participation in society. On Report, noble Lords expressed concern that services relating to relationships were not included in this list. I recognise this concern and agree that strong and supportive relationships are critical to supporting care leavers to lead successful independent lives. I committed to consider in detail whether an amendment to the Bill would be the best way of securing the necessary progress in this area and, on reflection, we believe that it would. I have therefore tabled this amendment to add services relating to relationships to Clause 2. If local authorities believe that particular services may assist care leavers in or in preparing for adulthood and independent living, they will now have to publish information about these services as part of their local offer, alongside information about services relating to the other five areas stipulated in the clause.

The remainder of the amendments in this group should not, I hope, detain the House for too long. They are a set of technical and consequential amendments relating to Part 1 of the Bill. Amendment 7 allows regulations relating to local reviews of serious cases of harm and abuse that would otherwise be made under the negative scrutiny procedure to be made under the affirmative procedure. This will allow the Government to bring forward regulations relating to both local and national reviews for the House’s scrutiny in a single instrument, ensuring greater coherence and making best use of the House’s time. The other amendments create a new schedule to the Bill, which comprises changes necessary to existing legislation as a consequence of the substantive changes we have debated on the Bill.

Lord Farmer Portrait Lord Farmer (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I thank my noble friend the Minister for bringing forward this welcome amendment—Amendment 2. It follows an amendment I tabled in Committee and on Report, to which the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay of Clashfern and my noble friend Lady Hodgson put their names. I am grateful to them for their enthusiastic support and for speaking so eloquently in the various debates. I tabled that amendment because it would remedy a serious omission in the list of the areas of support that local authorities are required to include in their local offer.

Recently, North Tyneside Council rallied staff across the authority to improve the employment outcomes of care leavers. Experience taught the council that it would need to be very intentional about ensuring that young people have at least one strong relationship with someone who genuinely and obviously thinks they matter. The council also knew that it would have to help them be part of a supportive network. This emphasis had to be explicitly stated if it was to become embedded in everyone’s practice.

There is a dynamic to this: it is not simply a case of providing young people with an adult who will keep in touch with them and to whom they can turn. Young people need to know how to maintain and grow relationships and how to work through conflict and avoid destructive feuds. Disruptions in attachment processes often lead to an understandable but ultimately vicious circle of an “I’ll reject them before they reject me” pattern of behaviour. Many long for independence far earlier than they can handle it because they do not want to be let down again. Furthermore, our individualistic culture seems to endorse the natural inclination to go it alone and avoid hurt. Not having relationships to draw on can also result in these young people being unbearably lonely, which can have severely negative effects on their health and well-being. It can undermine their education, their ability to maintain a tenancy or other accommodation and manage work, and their financial security. If they do not understand bills, they can easily get into arrears and debt, which can be quite terrifying. Such life skills often develop through a process of guided mastery—encouragement and guidance from someone who is genuinely concerned about them.

In summary, healthy and supportive relationships are fundamental to the other five areas included in the local offer. The Government’s amendment has the potential to tackle the haphazardness of current arrangements which mean that it is not automatic, and is probably highly unlikely, that young people will receive help and advice in the area of relationships.

Given the careful attention that the Minister and his team paid to this matter, I hope that this amendment is a portent of a more relational approach in many other areas of policy. Given the enthusiastic support from across the House that this amendment has received, I am sure that many other noble Lords would agree.

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Lord Watson of Invergowrie Portrait Lord Watson of Invergowrie
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I too welcome the amendment. The local offer for care leavers and the corporate parenting principles are two of the most valuable aspects of the Bill to emerge. Of course, they were originally in the Bill and we have sought to improve them. The inclusion of the term “relationships” is certainly one of those improvements. I will add just one thing to what the noble Lord, Lord Farmer, said. The question of relationships is not just about having someone to whom the child or young person can relate but about having the ability and the knowledge to build relationships in his or her adult life so that, we hope, that can confirm stable relationships for them and their own children. I support Amendment 2 and the somewhat impenetrable Amendment 12, which is consequential, and the other consequential amendments which the Minister has put forward in his name.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am grateful to my noble friend Lord Farmer for driving this point so forcefully and to the noble Earl, Lord Listowel, the noble Baroness, Lady Tyler, and the noble Lord, Lord Watson, for their positive contributions to today’s debate. I also thank my noble and learned friend Lord Mackay of Clashfern and the noble Lord, Lord Warner, for speaking on this important issue on Report. I am pleased to have been able to respond positively to them and I hope noble Lords will welcome and accept the amendment.

Amendment 2 agreed.
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Moved by
3: Clause 2, page 3, line 34, leave out subsections (8) and (9)
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Moved by
4: After Clause 9, insert the following new Clause—
“Chapter 1: consequential amendments
Schedule (Part 1 of this Act: consequential amendments) contains amendments consequential on this Chapter.”
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Moved by
5: Clause 12, page 12, line 8, leave out subsection (2)
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Moved by
6: Clause 15, page 13, line 33, leave out subsection (2)
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Moved by
7: After Clause 27, insert the following new Clause—
“Regulations under provisions inserted by sections 12, 15 and 16
In section 66(3) of the Children Act 2004 (regulations subject to affirmative procedure), after “12B(1)(b)” insert “, 16B (whether alone or with regulations under section 16F), 16E(3)”.”
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Moved by
8: Clause 28, page 20, line 5, leave out subsection (2)
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Moved by
9: After Clause 29, insert the following new Clause—
“Chapter 2: consequential amendments
Schedule (Part 1 of this Act: consequential amendments) contains amendments consequential on this Chapter.”
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Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I am grateful to the noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf, the noble Baronesses, Lady Walmsley and Lady Hamwee, and the noble Lord, Lord Ramsbotham, for this amendment and for raising this important matter of the United Nations Convention on the Rights of the Child. I am also grateful for the contributions to today’s debate from the noble Baronesses, Lady Lister and Lady Wheeler, the noble and learned Baroness, Lady Butler-Sloss, the noble Earls, Lord Sandwich and Lord Listowel, and the noble Lords, Lord Warner and Lord Judd. We had a helpful discussion of the issue on Report, and today’s discussion has been helpful as well. There is a lot of common ground between us though perhaps we take different approaches over what needs to happen next and what could have the most impact in changing culture and behaviour and improving the way we consider children’s rights in policy-making.

Let me start by again emphasising the Government’s commitment to children’s rights. No one questions the importance of the UNCRC and we are fully committed to giving due consideration to the articles when making new policies and legislation. We are equally determined to safeguard and promote the welfare of all children. Nothing could be more important.

As noble Lords are aware, this commitment is already enshrined in existing legislation and statutory duties. The Children Act 1989 and the Children Act 2004 set out a range of duties to safeguard and promote the welfare of children. Specifically, Section 11 of the Children Act 2004 places duties on a range of organisations including local authorities, the police, health services and a variety of other agencies to ensure their functions and any services that they contract out to others are discharged having regard to the need to safeguard and promote the welfare of children. In 2013, we issued statutory guidance to directors of children’s services which requires them to have regard to the general principles of the UNCRC and ensure that children and young people are involved in the development and delivery of local services.

In addition to legislation, a range of monitoring practices is also in place. Through the single inspection framework, Ofsted assesses the experiences of children and young people, tests the thresholds for providing help, care and protection, and evaluates the quality of this support. This reporting process is independent. Forcing local leaders to produce similar five-yearly reports is unlikely to offer the same level of scrutiny. Of course, we should not forget the role of the Children’s Commissioner. The Children and Families Act 2014 gave the Children’s Commissioner the explicit function of promoting and protecting the rights of children, having particular regard to the UNCRC and making sure their best interests are brought to the attention of decision-makers, both locally and nationally.

However, we would fully accept that there is more to do to embed the UNCRC in policy and practice. Across the UK, there are differing approaches to securing ministerial commitment to the UNCRC. Scotland and Wales have both gone down the route of putting a duty on their Ministers in regard to children’s rights and the UNCRC. In Westminster, our prime objective is to bring about sustained change to the culture that does more than force officials and practitioners to take greater account of the UNCRC—the noble Lord, Lord Judd, referred to this. We want policymakers and others to see the value of the UNCRC in their everyday work. Only last month, Minister Timpson spoke at a parliamentary event and—as the noble and learned Lord, Lord Woolf, mentioned—laid a Written Ministerial Statement reinforcing the message that, to achieve implementation of the UNCRC, every department across Westminster must be proactive in considering children’s rights in policy-making. As the noble and learned Lord also mentioned, the DfE Permanent Secretary, Jonathan Slater, wrote to his counterparts across government, challenging them to keep the convention at the heart of their policy-making and implementation, and to engage children and young people in the process.

We are determined to follow this through with a number of measures designed to embed children’s rights across Whitehall and beyond. These include introducing a programme to raise awareness of UNCRC among civil servants, with an understanding of what it means to have regard to the articles when carrying out public duties in relation to children. The programme will include a new core learning and development offer through Civil Service Learning, and an offer through the policy profession led by the director-general for children’s services and the chief social worker. This work will begin in January 2017 with the learning and development offer in place within six months. This goes further than we have gone previously in making training an integral part of Civil Service development. I am sorry that the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, believed that we had promised to start this earlier. I understand that we committed to look at all the options, including the models adopted by the devolved Administrations. We have had information from Scotland and Wales and are considering it. I hope the noble Baroness is reassured by my statement that we will start this programme in January.

We also have a commitment to work with the Joint Committee on Human Rights in its plans to develop a template for child rights impact assessments and on any associated guidance and good practice. We will host a round table in January next year with a range of stakeholders, including UNICEF and the Children’s Rights Alliance for England, to explore how we can develop a framework for this work. We will make sure there is input from those with experience and expertise who can support us to change behaviour and culture and promote children’s rights in policy-making at both local and national level. We will work with UNICEF and others to spread best practice from local authorities which have a good track record in promoting children’s rights and articulate the principles and values associated with that practice. At the next review of the statutory guidance Working Together to Safeguard Children, we will consider how the underpinning principles can be strengthened to reflect children’s rights, and we will, of course, continue to discuss and review progress with relevant non-governmental organisations.

The noble Baroness, Lady Lister, asked about evidence. As part of our consideration of implementation of the duties in Wales and Scotland, we will be considering the impact on children of policy-making. We know that UNICEF and others have some rich evidence, and we have asked them to provide it to us for further consideration. The noble Lord, Lord Warner, asked about impact assessments. There is already a strong recommendation within the Cabinet Office guidance to carry out impact assessments for new legislation.

I hope this reassures noble Lords of our wholehearted commitment to children’s rights. We will continue to observe and assess the results of the various approaches to implementing the UNCRC and will be very pleased to involve noble Lords who wish to be involved in that ongoing work. I appreciate the arguments that noble Lords have used to support the amendment, but I hope that our firm commitment to the UNCRC and our plans further to promote and embed it will convince the noble and learned Lord that his amendment is unnecessary.

Lord Woolf Portrait Lord Woolf
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I thank the Minister for that response and I thank all noble Lords who have contributed to this debate. I particularly thank the noble Baroness, Lady Walmsley, whose support I found essential during earlier events, especially when visiting Ministers about this matter. I pay particular attention to what the Minister said. As he spoke, I was very much reminded of what the noble Lord, Lord Judd, said about the importance of the convention underpinning what the Government are doing, which we applaud. Does the Minister still not think that instead of underpinning the convention he might be undermining it unintentionally? I hope he will take that thought away and that by the time the matter arrives in the other place the Government will have had a rethink on this matter. I beg leave to withdraw the amendment.

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Moved by
11: After Clause 53, insert the following new Clause—
“Review by independent person
(1) The Secretary of State must commission an independent person to—(a) review the operation of this Part during the review period, and(b) send a report to the Secretary of State on the findings of the review.(2) In carrying out the review the independent person must consult representatives of social workers in England and anyone else that the person considers appropriate.(3) On receiving the report the Secretary of State must lay it before Parliament.(4) The Secretary of State must also lay before Parliament a response to the report.(5) The review period is 5 years beginning with the day on which section 33(1) comes fully into force.”
Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, during our debate on Report, I signalled my commitment to table an amendment that ensures that an independent review of the provisions in Part 2 takes place. Amendment 11 meets that commitment. On Report, noble Lords spoke of the need to ensure that these provisions remain fit for purpose. I agree—in fact I believe I astonished the noble Lord, Lord Warner, with that agreement—that it is crucial that these provisions bring about the reforms that are needed and that they remain fit for purpose.

This amendment ensures that an independent review is undertaken within five years from the point that Social Work England becomes fully operational. The review will be able to cover all aspects of Part 2 of the Bill. Those undertaking the review must consult with representatives of the social work profession and anyone else that they consider appropriate. Following the review and discussions with Members in the other place and noble Lords, the Secretary of State for Education and the Secretary of State for Health will be required to publish a response to the review.

As noble Lords are aware, to ensure the effective operation of Social Work England and that robust independent oversight measures are in place, the Professional Standards Authority will undertake independent reviews on how Social Work England discharges its functions. This new amendment further strengthens the independent scrutiny of Social Work England.

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Lord Hunt of Kings Heath Portrait Lord Hunt of Kings Heath (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, I do not think I will follow that comment.

If the noble Lord, Lord Warner, was astonished, I was certainly very pleased with the way in which the Minister acknowledged on Report that this is an important issue. I welcome the amendment. I take the opportunity of thanking the Minister, the honourable Edward Timpson in the other place and officials in both the Minister’s department and the Department of Health for the tremendous amount of work they have done in response to the issues raised. We are very satisfied with the outcome.

Lord Nash Portrait Lord Nash
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, we are all aware that social workers play a critical role in our society. It is in order to protect the public that we need a strong bespoke regulator committed to the social work profession. With noble Lords’ assistance and engagement, I am confident that we have arrived at a strengthened position and an improved model for the new regulator.

I believe the provisions in Part 2 of the Bill will lead to the establishment of an effective and successful bespoke regulator for social workers, with appropriate independence from government and clear oversight from the Professional Standards Authority. It is right, though, that these provisions be reviewed, and this amendment will ensure that that happens. I therefore hope noble Lords are able to accept this amendment. I am pleased that we are able to finish on such a positive note.

Before I sit down, I take this opportunity to say a few words of thanks to the House. Your Lordships’ House has been unwavering in the rigour and attention to detail that it has brought to bear as we have debated the Bill. I know that on occasion there has not been as much time as noble Lords would have liked to consider the provisions of the Bill before they have been debated, and I know that I have made further demands on noble Lords’ time through meetings, briefings, letters and policy statements. I can only apologise and say how grateful I am for the efforts that have been taken to bring the House’s expertise fully to bear on these matters.

I also thank my ministerial colleagues, particularly of course the Secretary of State and the Minister for Vulnerable Children and Families, who will now be taking the Bill on its next steps. I join noble Lords today in thanking officials, and I shall certainly take back their kind words to everyone involved in the department. In closing, I note the co-operative approach that has been taken on all sides and thank the House again for its constant efforts to find common ground in the best interests of all our country’s children.

Lord Watson of Invergowrie Portrait Lord Watson of Invergowrie
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My Lords, before the Minister sits down, I, too, should like to say a few words about the Bill, as it proceeds to another place. First, I record the thanks of these Benches for the advice and support supplied by the clerks and the Public Bill Office. It is not often that a Lords starter Bill moves down the Corridor containing such a plethora of changes from the form in which it was introduced to your Lordships’ House six months ago. To some extent, that is a reflection of the form in which it was received—which, noble Lords may recall, prompted Labour to take the unusual step of submitting an amendment on Second Reading regretting that Part 2 was bereft of detail, a fact drawing criticism from both the Constitution Committee and the Delegated Powers Committee.

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Moved by
12: Before Schedule 1, insert the following new Schedule—
“SCHEDULEPART 1 OF THIS ACT: CONSEQUENTIAL AMENDMENTSPART 1AMENDMENTS RELATING TO CHAPTER 1Local offer for care leavers
1 In Schedule 1 to the Local Authority Social Services Act 1970 (social services functions of local authorities), in the table, at the appropriate place insert—

“Children and Social Work Act 2016

Section 2

Local offer for care leavers.”

2 In paragraph 1(2)(a) of Schedule 2 to the Children Act 1989 (information to be published by a local authority), in paragraph (i), for “, 23B to 23D, 24A and 24B” substitute “and 23D”.3 In section 135(1)(e) of the Education and Inspections Act 2006 (functions subject to inspection), for “or the Adoption and Children Act 2002 (c. 38)” substitute “, the Adoption and Children Act 2002 or section 2 of the Children and Social Work Act 2016”.4 In section 30 of the Children and Families Act 2014 (local offer for children and young people who have special educational needs or a disability), for “local offer”, in each place it occurs (including the title), substitute “SEN and disability local offer”.Advice and support
5 In paragraph 1(1)(g) of Schedule 3 to the Nationality, Immigration and Asylum Act 2002 (kinds of support for which certain people are ineligible), after “23C,” insert “23CZB,”.6 In section 83A(5)(a) of the Apprenticeships, Skills, Children and Learning Act 2009 (apprenticeship offer: application to persons provided with support under Children Act 1989)—(a) for “21” substitute “25”;(b) after “23C” insert “or 23CZB”.PART 2AMENDMENTS RELATING TO ABOLITION OF LOCAL SAFEGUARDING CHILDREN BOARDS7 In Schedule 1 to the Local Authority Social Services Act 1970 (social services functions of local authorities), in the entry relating to the Children Act 2004—(a) for “13 to 16” substitute “16A to 16Q”;(b) omit “targets for”;(c) omit “, and to Local Safeguarding Children Boards”.8 (1) Section 83 of the Children Act 1989 (research and returns of information) is amended as follows.(2) In subsection (1), in paragraph (aa), for “of Local Safeguarding Children Boards;” substitute “of—(i) the Child Safeguarding Practice Review Panel;(ii) safeguarding partners (within the meaning given by section 16E(3) of the Children Act 2004) in relation to local authority areas in England;(iii) child death review partners (within the meaning given by section 16Q(2) of the Children Act 2004) in relation to local authority areas in England;”.(3) In subsection (2) omit paragraph (aa).(4) In subsection (3) omit paragraph (c) (and the “and” before it).9 (1) Section 31 of the Children and Young Persons Act 2008 (supply of information concerning deaths of children) is amended as follows.(2) In subsections (2) and (4), for “appropriate Board” substitute “appropriate authority”.(3) In subsection (5), for “Subsection (6) applies” substitute “Subsections (5A) and (6) apply”.(4) After subsection (5) insert—“(5A) Where the registrar’s sub-district is in England, the registrar must, before the end of the required period, secure that the appropriate authority is notified—(a) of the issuing of the certificate; and(b) of the registrar’s belief and the grounds for it.”(5) In subsection (6)—(a) at the beginning insert “Where the registrar’s sub-district is in Wales,”;(b) omit “Local Safeguarding Children Board in England or”.(6) In subsection (7)(c), for “subsection” substitute “subsections (5A) and”.(7) After subsection (8) insert—“(8A) The child death review partners for each local authority area in England must—(a) make arrangements for the receipt by them of notifications under this section; and(b) publish those arrangements.”(8) In subsection (9) omit “Each Local Safeguarding Children Board in England and”. (9) Subsection (10) is amended as follows.(10) In the definition of “the appropriate Board”—(a) for “Board” substitute “authority”;(b) in paragraph (a), for “the Local Safeguarding Children Board in England in whose area” substitute “in relation to a register kept for a sub-district in England, the child death review partners for the local authority area within which”;(c) in paragraph (b), at the beginning insert “in relation to a register kept for a sub-district in Wales,”.(11) At the appropriate place insert—““child death review partners” has the meaning given by section 16Q(2) of the Children Act 2004;”.(12) Omit the definition of “Local Safeguarding Children Board in England”.”

Children and Social Work Bill [Lords]

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

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2nd reading: House of Commons & Money resolution: House of Commons & Programme motion: House of Commons & Ways and Means resolution: House of Commons
Monday 5th December 2016

(7 years, 11 months ago)

Commons Chamber
Children and Social Work Act 2017 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: HL Bill 69-I Marshalled list for Third Reading (PDF, 80KB) - (22 Nov 2016)

This text is a record of ministerial contributions to a debate held as part of the Children and Social Work Act 2017 passage through Parliament.

In 1993, the House of Lords Pepper vs. Hart decision provided that statements made by Government Ministers may be taken as illustrative of legislative intent as to the interpretation of law.

This extract highlights statements made by Government Ministers along with contextual remarks by other members. The full debate can be read here

This information is provided by Parallel Parliament and does not comprise part of the offical record

Nick Gibb Portrait The Minister for School Standards (Mr Nick Gibb)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read a Second time.

I am delighted to be able to open the debate in the absence of the Secretary of State, who is in Shanghai at the education summit. I know she regrets not being here, and she sends her apologies.

As the Secretary of State made clear when she spoke at the national children and adult services conference a few weeks ago, nothing is more important than making sure that children get the best start in life, feel safe, are well looked after and are able to fulfil their dreams. Nowhere is that more important than for those children who do not have the benefit of a loving family to help them on their way and to support them as they grow up, or who face other significant challenges, which make it harder for them to flourish and thrive.

Children’s social care professionals perform some of society’s most vital, most important work, and we entrust them with nothing less than keeping our children safe and making life-changing decisions about what is best for their futures. These are highly challenging, highly complex tasks, performed by deeply dedicated and committed individuals.

However, as we all know, the system in which these individuals work is far from perfect, meaning the help and support being offered to vulnerable children in different parts of the country is a long way from being consistently excellent. Evidence from Ofsted shows that most local authorities struggle in some way to provide consistently effective core social work practice. That is why this Government are determined to bring about the widest-reaching reforms to children’s social care and social work for a generation.

Reviews by Professor Eileen Munro, Sir Martin Narey and Professor David Croisdale-Appleby, among others, have given us a deep understanding of the challenges faced by children’s social care. They have described a system in which initial social worker training is not consistently preparing students for the challenges of the job, and those already doing it too often lack the time, specialist skill and supervision needed to achieve real change for children and families; a system that focuses too much on management and is governed by prescribed approaches rather than excellent practice; and a system where services have not always been designed around vulnerable children, and innovation has not been given enough space to thrive.

Over the last six years, the Government have taken important steps towards addressing these challenges. For example, we have raised standards in children’s homes and enabled young people in foster care to remain with their carer up to the age of 21. We have invested £100 million through our innovation programme to allow radical new approaches to children’s social care to be developed and tested. In April, we announced a £200 million extension to the programme to take this further still. We have taken a variety of steps to enhance the status, skills and capacity of the social work profession—both for children and for adults. Those include appointing chief social workers; publishing definitive statements of the knowledge and skills required by adults’ and children’s social workers; and investing over £750 million since 2010 in traditional and fast-track routes into the profession.

Nick Gibb Portrait Mr Gibb
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

If the hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I would just like to explain some of the tenets of the Bill, and then I will take his intervention.

We are starting to see things change. This year, we have seen the first “outstanding” judgments under the most recent—and most challenging—Ofsted framework. Local authorities are testing innovative ways of supporting families through the children’s social care innovation programme. Examples of excellent leadership across the country are being celebrated by Ofsted and others.

However, we are under no illusion that there is still much more to be done. That is why, in July of this year, the Department for Education published a clear and ambitious vision and plan for the changes that need to be made to drive sustainable improvement across the whole country. This is our plan for putting children first. It sets out fundamental reforms across each of the three pillars on which the social care system stands: people and leadership, practice and systems, and governance and accountability. This Bill is a crucial part of delivering reforms across those three pillars.

Part 1 concerns children who are in care or supported by the state. Clause 1 sets out, for the first time, a set of corporate parenting principles designed to establish consistently high standards in the support of looked-after children and care leavers, and drive a culture of excellent corporate parenting. The principles are intended to help a local authority to think and act in the interests of the children in their care in the same way as any good parent would. This is not about putting a new set of duties on local authorities; it is about changing behaviour and practice. The aim is to ensure that all parts and every tier of local government have the needs and circumstances of looked-after children and care leavers in their minds in their planning and decisions. This responsibility goes beyond just children’s social care, reaching across the whole of the local authority.

Clause 2 will ensure that the corporate parenting ethos extends into adulthood and that all care leavers are clear about the support on offer to them and how to access it. Care leavers will have access to information about the services available to them through a local offer from their local authority, with each local offer based on consultation with care leavers themselves.

Clause 3 will give all care leavers access to support from a personal adviser at any point up to the age of 25. We amended the Bill in another place to make sure that the service is offered at least annually so that care leavers can take advantage of it whenever they need to.

Nick Gibb Portrait Mr Gibb
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

If my hon. Friend will forgive me, may I make a little more progress, and then I will come back to him?

The next section of the Bill recognises that children who are adopted or who leave care under another permanence order often have ongoing difficulties resulting from their early life experiences. Clauses 4 to 7 will therefore give them access to the same support that looked-after children receive from virtual school heads at local authority level, and that designated teachers provide in schools to help with their education. Following an undertaking given in the other place, we are bringing forward amendments that will extend these provisions to children who have been adopted from overseas.

Clauses 8 and 9 expand the factors that courts and local authorities must take into account when deciding on the most appropriate place for a child. They do not give priority to one type of placement over another, but they do place more emphasis on stability and what would be in a child’s best long-term interests, taking account of the impact of any harm that the child may have suffered.

Nick Gibb Portrait Mr Gibb
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I now give way to the hon. Gentleman.

Jonathan Reynolds Portrait Jonathan Reynolds
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am extremely grateful to the Minister. I was trying to tell him that I have to speak in a Delegated Legislation Committee at half-past 4, so the clock was ticking down for me. I want to ask him about a specific point relating to some casework that I have done in my constituency. It is about the lack of safeguarding checks for 16 and 17-year-olds in private fostering arrangements. I had a situation where a young person within that age group in my constituency went into a private fostering arrangement, and the parents were unable to get the assurances they would have had in a public setting. That is not addressed in the Bill, and I wonder whether the Minister would be willing to look at it if I tabled an amendment at a later stage.

Nick Gibb Portrait Mr Gibb
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Yes, of course. My hon. Friend the Minister for Vulnerable Children and Families is very keen to engage in debate on the details in Committee. I know that he will be very interested in the particular case raised by the hon. Gentleman and want to debate it with him.

John Howell Portrait John Howell (Henley) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

In Oxfordshire we have had a situation where children in care have been abused, and that has led to Operation Bullfinch. How will what the Minister has set out make that situation better?

Nick Gibb Portrait Mr Gibb
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The local safeguarding arrangements set out in the Bill will provide a strong statutory framework that puts responsibility on the police, the NHS—through the clinical commissioning group—and the local authority to ensure that a robust safeguarding system is in place, but with greater local flexibility than we have at the moment, so that the arrangements are as effective as possible in meeting local needs. I also believe that the combination of improved national arrangements for analysing serious cases, which I will come on to, including child sexual abuse and exploitation, and for learning from them in a more systematic way, including higher standards for social workers, as set out in the Bill, will enable Oxfordshire and other counties across the country to keep children safer than is currently the case.

Chapter 2 of part 1 of the Bill focuses largely on arrangements for the safeguarding and protection of children. Earlier this year, Alan Wood, the former director of children’s services in Hackney who is president of the Association of Directors of Children’s Services, carried out a review for the Government on the role and functions of local safeguarding children boards. His report, which was published in May, found that local arrangements were patchy. Less than half of LSCBs were judged by Ofsted to be good or better, and he reported that there was a clear consensus in favour of reform. Strong partnership is, as we know from serious case reviews, key to keeping children safe.

Clauses 12 to 15 will establish a new child safeguarding practice review panel to review serious child safeguarding cases that are complex or of national importance. The purpose of the panel will be to improve the way in which we learn from cases where a child has died or been seriously harmed and neglect or abuse of the child was known or suspected.

Clauses 16 to 30 will introduce a stronger statutory framework for child safeguarding and protection at local level. The focus will shift away from wide-ranging local partnerships and will place a duty on the three key agencies involved in safeguarding children—namely local authorities, the police and the health service—to work together, and with any relevant agencies, to safeguard and promote the welfare of children.

Nick Gibb Portrait Mr Gibb
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will give way to my hon. Friend and am sorry that I did not do so earlier.

Tim Loughton Portrait Tim Loughton
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

The Minister will be aware that this is not the original Bill, thanks to the good work of the House of Lords in removing clauses 29 to 33 on the duty to innovate. At the recent national children and adult services conference in Manchester, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State said of that duty:

“It’s about how we can put you in the best position to protect those children properly.”

The trouble is that the “you”—meaning 150 organisations, including Coram, the National Society for the Prevention of Cruelty to Children, the British Association of Social Workers and 90% of all social workers—said that they did not want it and that they were opposed to it. Will the Minister confirm that he will not try to reintroduce those clauses in this House?

Nick Gibb Portrait Mr Gibb
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I listened carefully to my hon. Friend, who will be aware, of course, that Eileen Munro, whom he appointed to look into this whole area when he was the Minister, supported the power to innovate. The Local Government Association, ADCS and Catch22 also support it. The power is not to do with taking rights away from children or with saving money; it is about giving councils the opportunity to develop new ways of working that they believe will improve outcomes for children.

Tim Loughton Portrait Tim Loughton
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My hon. Friend says that it is not about taking rights away from children, but one of the scenarios is the abolition of independent reviewing officers, who absolutely can be the only voice independently standing up for vulnerable looked-after children in local authorities. If they go under the proposals, how is that not taking away the rights of children, particularly vulnerable children?

Nick Gibb Portrait Mr Gibb
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

This is not about abolishing any statutory responsibilities. My hon. Friend should wait to see the amendments tabled in Committee. I am sure that he will want to talk about his concerns in more detail with the Minister for Vulnerable Children and Families, who will take them very seriously indeed, particularly given my hon. Friend’s background and experience.

Caroline Spelman Portrait Dame Caroline Spelman (Meriden) (Con)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Chapter 2 covers other provisions relating to children, so we are talking about the rights of the child. Will the Minister consider amending the law so that a child has the right to have the names of both parents on their marriage registration certificate?

Nick Gibb Portrait Mr Gibb
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I know that that issue has been discussed and I am sure that my hon. Friend the Minister for Vulnerable Children and Families will listen very carefully to my right hon. Friend if she tables such an amendment.

We are not introducing change for the sake of change. If existing LSCB arrangements are working, there will be nothing to prevent them from continuing in a similar vein within the new legal framework set out in the Bill. Importantly, the local safeguarding partners will have a clear responsibility for the arrangements and the flexibility to change and improve them if they are not working.

I should briefly mention two other provisions in chapter 2 of the Bill. Clause 11 is largely technical and allows the Government to use their powers to intervene in combined authorities where their services are failing vulnerable children and young people, in the same way as the Government can intervene in individual authorities. Clause 31 was an amendment to the Bill, and it will enable the Secretary of State to extend whistleblower protection to people applying for jobs in children’s social care, as well as to existing employees.

Part 2 sets the legal framework for the establishment of a bespoke regulator for all social workers in England. High-quality social work can transform lives, and social workers play a critical role in our society. Every day, social workers deal with complex and fraught situations that require a great depth of skill, knowledge, understanding and empathy. However, when social workers are not able to fulfil their role competently, the consequences can be grave. In order to protect the public from these risks, social workers have to meet high standards of acceptable practice and competence, which are overseen by a regulator.

The need for an improved system of regulation for the social work profession was highlighted in recent independent reviews by Sir Martin Narey and Professor David Croisdale-Appleby. Our ambition, through the establishment of a new bespoke regulator for social work, is to continue to improve the practice of social work and raise the status of the profession. For too long, the bar on standards has been too low. Some graduates are leaving courses and being registered as social workers without the knowledge and skills required to do the job, and that cannot be right. The new regulator will ensure, following consultation with the profession, that minimum standards are set at the right level. The new regulator will be a separate legal entity, operating independently of Ministers in its day-to-day work. The Government have always been clear that we have no intention of making decisions about the performance of individual social workers. As with other independent health and social care regulators, the Professional Standards Authority will oversee the operations of Social Work England. The PSA has welcomed the revised clauses.

We are planning to table a further amendment regarding the national assessment and accreditation system. That will introduce a nationally recognised post-qualification specialism in child and family social work, which will reinforce the focus on quality of practice.

There are two other crucial measures that are not in the Bill, but about which amendments will be tabled shortly. First, amendments will be tabled to ensure that looked-after children in England and Wales can legally be accommodated in secure children’s homes in Scotland. Recent case law has cast some doubt on the present arrangements. Secondly, amendments will be tabled regarding the power to innovate. That power is a direct response to the issues raised by Eileen Munro in her independent review of child protection. She has said:

“Trusting professionals to use their judgement rather than be forced to follow unnecessary legal rules will help ensure children get the help they need, when they need it. Testing innovation in a controlled way to establish the consequences of the change, before any national roll out, is a sensible and proportionate way forward.”

The purpose of the power is to allow individual local authorities to test new ways of working by changing or disapplying specific legislative provisions within a controlled environment, with a view to achieving better outcomes for children. As hon. Members know, the other place was unhappy about the clauses that were included in the Bill at introduction. We appreciate that this is a new way of working in Government and we understand why some noble Lords were wary, but the provisions are too important just to let them drop. I emphasise that this is a grassroots power, empowering local authorities to test new and better ways of working in the best interests of children.

David Lammy Portrait Mr David Lammy (Tottenham) (Lab)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Will the Minister give way?

Nick Gibb Portrait Mr Gibb
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

If the right hon. Gentleman will forgive me, I am coming to the concluding elements of my comments.

Local government overwhelmingly supports these measures, and the national associations and individual authorities have made it clear that they do not want us to lose this opportunity to allow them to test new ways of working. We have, therefore, reviewed and substantially revised the clauses to make sure that they avoid the issues raised in the other place, and there are several notable new features. We have removed the provision that allowed a body carrying local authority functions under an intervention arrangement to apply to use the power. Only local authorities can apply to use the power and if they do not wish to, that is the end of the matter. The power was never intended to be used to alter or remove children’s fundamental rights or entitlements. Its sole purpose is to allow local authorities to trial better and more practical alternatives to the sometimes very specific and overly prescriptive requirements set out in legislation in order to provide better outcomes for children. The new amendments will put that beyond doubt.

We will set out further provision for the process surrounding the power to ensure that it is based on sound consultation, transparency and robust safeguards. All applications to use the power will be subject to local consultation, scrutiny by an independent panel and parliamentary approval. Pilots will be closely monitored. Those changes will be in addition to amendments the Government tabled in the other place about the scrutiny process that accompanies the power—

David Lammy Portrait Mr Lammy
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

On that point, will the Minister give way?

Nick Gibb Portrait Mr Gibb
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I will not give way to the right hon. Gentleman because he was not here at the beginning of my speech, when I set out a lot of the basic principles surrounding the Bill.

As I said, those changes will be in addition to amendments the Government tabled in the other place about the scrutiny process that accompanies the power and ruling out the use of the provision for profit. The Government are committed to working with the sector. The changes we have made are the result of significant consultation and we believe that these clauses are the safest possible way to test new approaches. My hon. Friend the Minister for Vulnerable Children and Families is very keen to meet any colleagues who have concerns to discuss these provisions further.

This is a Bill for the welfare and prospects of vulnerable children and young people. All its measures are designed to improve the services that so many of them rely on, and I commend it to the House.

--- Later in debate ---
Tim Loughton Portrait Tim Loughton
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

My hon. Friend, who has great expertise in this area, is right. Of course we cannot look at vulnerable children in isolation; we need to look at their families holistically. There are some really good examples. I hope that the Minister will stick to his word and provide funding for things such as FDAC, the family drug and alcohol court set up by the excellent Nick Crichton, a fantastic family district judge.

At FDAC, a mother—often a single mother—at risk of losing a child to the care system because of substance abuse or an abusive partner, say, is given a clear choice of an intensive package that will help her back on to the straight and narrow so that she can bring up her own child. It is a tough, challenging exercise. Alternatively, perhaps both parents will be involved. If they are able to do that, the whole family is put back together and the child stays, which is the best outcome. If not, that child will head for care.

I have sat in court, as has my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller), who will speak shortly, seeing mums who have had six, seven or eight children taken into the care system. We have to tackle the root of that problem: why is it? Is it that the mother just does not know how to parent, in which case what are society, social workers and the troubled families programme doing to help her become a fit parent if she remotely can? If she cannot, that child must go to a safe family elsewhere who can give them a second chance of a beneficial and happy upbringing.

I would like to make a few other quick points, Mr Deputy Speaker; I am aware that there are not too many speakers for this debate, so I have an opportunity to elaborate on some important points a little longer than the Chair normally allows. I know how generous you are in these matters, which are of great interest to you.

Clause 5 is about the designation of a member of staff at school

“having responsibility for promoting the educational achievement”

of children in the care system. That is a good initiative, but it already exists for children with caring responsibilities and alas that does not work in practice. It is a good idea, but it has to have some teeth so that it means something on the ground: that children in the care system have special attention from a designated teacher who understands the particular needs of such children, who are often subject to bullying, mental health problems and everything else. There must be more than a clause on paper in a Bill: the proposal has to work in practice.

There are some good points on the child safeguarding review panels, although I have concerns about the independence of the panels. Certainly when we gave a commitment before the 2010 election that we would publish serious case reviews—opposed by the Labour party, although the reviews have now become the norm—one of my concerns was also about the calibre of the people producing those SCRs and the quality of some of the reports. Effectively, they were not properly monitored; they were monitored only on a local basis. Some time ago, I put forward the idea that a national body should oversee the quality and that there should be a national register of authors of serious case reviews with a requirement for continuous professional development; there needed to be training, which would be updated. Before now, anybody, effectively, could apply to be the author of a serious case review. We need to regulate that important area rather better.

Under clause 13, the panel

“must publish the report, unless they consider it inappropriate to do so.”

Given that, previously, when serious case reviews were published, they were seen only by a few people locally and Department for Education officials if we were lucky, it was really important that, other than in exceptional circumstances where there could be detriment to surviving children or families, the reviews should be published and the lessons learned to see how they could apply elsewhere. This new review panel is an exercise in doing that and in disseminating best practice rather better. I very much support that, and I would like more details on how it is going to work.

Then, however, we have the section about safeguarding partners. These appear to be replacing the local safeguarding children boards, which are a really important feature of bringing together local agencies to make sure that we have workable solutions and partnerships in place, particularly to deal with child sexual exploitation at the moment. We need to be convinced about how these new bodies are better than, or different from, local safeguarding children boards and, in particular, about how they are going to be funded. Clause 20, on funding, says:

“The safeguarding partners for a local authority area in England may make payments”

towards the expenditure of these bodies

“by contributing to a fund”

or making payments directly. It also says:

“Relevant agencies for a local authority area…may make payments”.

The problem with LSCBs at the moment is that not all the partners pull their weight. In too many cases, key partners are, first, not turning up at the table and, secondly, not helping to fund the work of the LSCBs. Too often, it falls to the local authority—the default partner —to pick up too much of the tab. If we are going to put these things on a statutory basis, can we make sure that it is laid out clearly and unequivocally that the funding contribution from, and the active participation of, all the relevant partners is absolutely essential?

I am also concerned because clause 21 says:

“The safeguarding partners for two or more local authority areas in England may agree that their areas are to be treated as a single area”.

How big can they be? It is important that LSCBs are able to come up with local safeguarding plans and local plans to tackle child sexual exploitation in their areas—plans that are relevant to Rotherham, given the particular problems there, to Rochdale or to wherever. If these bodies are going to be looking after huge areas, their effect will surely be diluted in key hotspots. The Bill also talks about having cross-border constabulary co-operation, but these are very large areas, and I am concerned about how big these new bodies could become.

On the part of the Bill about the new body, Social Work England, I think we need to improve the regulation of social workers. I am not sure whether this is the right way to do it, and I would like to see more details. The demise of the College of Social Work is a shame, and I think it would have performed a lot of this function if it had been allowed to continue and to thrive. A lot of effort went into setting it up in the first place.

I am also concerned about the independence of Social Work England. My understanding is that it will be an Executive agency of the Department for Education, and we need to have some clarity over that.

Tim Loughton Portrait Tim Loughton
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Yes—I am delighted I am getting a response.

Edward Timpson Portrait Edward Timpson
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I can reassure my hon. Friend that the new Social Work England regulatory body will not be an Executive agency; it will be a non-departmental public body, so it will be at arm’s length from the Government and provide the independence that people called for and that I think is right.

Tim Loughton Portrait Tim Loughton
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am grateful, and gratefully reassured, and I look forward to being able to support that provision, as opposed to some others that I am not so reassured about.

In clause 31, one of the overarching objectives of Social Work England is

“to promote and maintain public confidence in social workers in England”,

and that is quite right. However, that is also the job of the chief social worker. One disappointment to me is that when we set up the chief social worker—originally, it was to be one chief social worker covering the elderly and children, but then it was split into a child social worker and an adult care social worker—the point was for them to be a high-profile face of social work, particularly for the public, and a reassuring face of child protection for the public in times of high-profile tragedies and disasters involving safeguarding issues. Therefore, while the current chief social worker for children said recently:

“I don’t pretend I am the voice of the profession. I am a civil servant and I see my role”

as

“offering advice to ministers based on what other people tell me about a the system”,

I think there is more to the role. This person must not just be a civil servant. They need to work closely alongside Ministers and civil servants, but equally—in action out on the street—to work alongside social workers, consultant social workers and practitioners at the sharp end. We need to revisit the balance that we currently have in that regard.

I apologise, Mr Deputy Speaker, for going on at length. This is a subject that interests me enormously. I have spent most of my career in Parliament involved with child safeguarding and child protection. I am very proud of the progress that has been made over years, but very worried that we still have a long way to go. Most of this Bill will help in that journey, but certain parts will not. I hope that when scrutinising the Bill in Committee and on Report, the Government reflect a little more before they rush to do some things that clearly are not in the best interests of vulnerable children.

--- Later in debate ---
Edward Timpson Portrait The Minister for Vulnerable Children and Families (Edward Timpson)
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I begin by thanking hon. Members for their enthusiastic engagement with the issues at the heart of the Bill. We all share a commitment to improving the lives of our most vulnerable children, and that has been demonstrated by the energy shown throughout this debate. As we enter Committee, I look forward to exploring in much more detail aspects of the Bill that have been raised today.

As the Minister for School Standards set out in opening the debate, protecting our most vulnerable children and giving them the care and support they need to thrive is one of the Government’s most important responsibilities. The children who need support from social care services have often faced challenges that most of us can only ever imagine. They have disabilities, they have faced abuse and neglect, or they have been let down time and again by the people who are supposed to love and protect them. They may be being exploited by perpetrators preying on their vulnerability. Children’s social care professionals deal with these highly complex and demanding challenges every day. They step up and take on responsibility for protecting our vulnerable children.

In my time as children’s Minister, as a family barrister and as a foster sibling, I have often been inspired by stories of children whose lives are transformed by social workers, foster carers, residential care staff, adopters and others. These people epitomise the compassion and deep desire in our society to help others, without which we, and our children, would be so much the poorer.

The Bill we are debating today is a critical part of creating a children’s social care system that enables those people to do the very best job possible for our children. It builds on the Children and Families Act 2014 and takes forward important measures from our overall strategy “Putting children first”—a strategy that I think represents the most fundamental reforms to the system in a generation.

The Bill places the interests of vulnerable children right at the heart of the social care system. It defines what good corporate parenting looks like, and secures the involvement of the whole council in looking out for children in or leaving its care. It requires every local area to set out exactly what support it is offering care leavers, and extends the help of a personal adviser to all care leavers up to the age of 25. It introduces improved national arrangements for analysing serious incidents and learning from them, and strengthened arrangements for local multi-agency co-ordination of safeguarding.

The Bill extends educational support to children leaving care via adoption or special guardianship. It creates the conditions for good placement decisions to be made for children coming into the care system, by ensuring that the child’s long-term needs and the impact of the harm they have suffered are properly considered. Furthermore, it introduces a new, bespoke regulator for social work, Social Work England—an organisation that will be empowered to raise standards in social work and raise the status of that vital profession.

Members have raised a multitude of important points in today’s debate, and I will do my very best to respond to them without detaining the House longer than would be deemed acceptable. I am grateful for the constructive engagement of Members, and want to work together to move forward with these legislative provisions, which have huge potential to improve the life chances of the children we all care so deeply about.

The hon. Member for Ashton-under-Lyne (Angela Rayner), the shadow Secretary of State, asked where our comprehensive strategy for all children in care was. We have it: it is the “Putting children first” document, and I urge her to refresh her memory of that all-encompassing strategy for children in care, which goes through to 2020.

The hon. Lady asked about spending on children’s services. It is right to say that the pattern of inspection outcomes is not about how deprived an area is, the local geography or even the amount of money being spent on children’s social care. Some of the local authorities judged inadequate by Ofsted this year were among the highest spending, while higher performers were found to spend their money more effectively, investing in the best services and bringing costs down. The key here is identifying where investment makes a difference, and spreading knowledge and practice about what works.

The hon. Lady asked about the local offer and about what guidance there would be for local authorities. The legislation already sets out the areas where local authorities should provide support: health and well being, education and training, employment, accommodation, participation in society, and relationships. We expect a wide range of services to be covered, from relevant universal health provision, to careers advice, to specific financial support, which care leavers can access and will benefit from. We have also developed a prototype local offer that sets out the areas we expect local authorities to consider and that provides examples of more specific support a local authority may choose to offer, and I am happy to share that with the hon. Lady so that she can scrutinise it in more detail.

The hon. Lady asked about the independence of the new regulator—Social Work England. The Bill makes it clear that Social Work England will be a separate legal entity, with its own staff and set of responsibilities as a non-departmental public body. The Government have always been clear that they have no intention to make decisions about individual social workers, and that is reflected in the legislation.

The Chair of the Education Committee, my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud (Neil Carmichael), made some central points about the foundations of the Bill, which he welcomed, and that included the regulatory changes. He raised the issue of a professional body for social work, and I agree that it is absolutely important for the profession to have a strong body to represent it, to provide support and guidance, and to help it develop its own practice. I set out at the national children and adult social services conference a few weeks ago exactly how I want to work with the profession to make sure we come up with the right solution. We have tried a whole host of different ways of making these things work, and we now need to go further to make sure we have something that will endure long into the future.

My hon. Friend alluded to Trafford, one of the outstanding care-leaving services in England, and to the virtue of its having strong leadership. I agree with him, and I have been hugely impressed by the work that has been done there by Mark Riddell and his team. There is a lot they can show others in terms of what works.

The hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows) told us to look at the work in Scotland. I am always happy to look at the Scottish perspective. As ever, I invite her to look at what we are doing in England, too. She said Scotland has children at the heart of the system; so do we—if she looks at the “Putting children first” strategy document, she will see that. Although Scotland may lead the way in some areas, we lead the way in others—Staying Put being a good example.

The hon. Lady asked why local authorities are only to “have regard to” corporate parenting principles. The reason for that is that the local authority is the corporate parent and is legally responsible for looked-after children and care leavers. We believe that maintaining this clear accountability is right. There is an existing duty under section 10 of the Children Act 2004 in terms of who the key partners are, and they include health, police, education services and others. The intention is that the provisions will help to improve the response in terms of them carrying out the duties they already have set out in legislation.

The hon. Lady asked about the Government’s commitment to the UN convention on the rights of the child. The Government remain fully committed to protecting children’s rights and to the UNCRC. We have considered the concluding observations of the UN Committee on the Rights of the Child, and we responded through the written ministerial statement published in October and through the permanent secretary’s letter to his counterparts across Government. The Bill is an example of how we constantly seek to not only protect children’s rights but enhance them. A full child rights impact assessment was conducted during the development of the Bill. There was considerable debate in the Lords on this issue, and we recently reaffirmed our commitment, through the written ministerial statement, to reinforcing the message of the importance of the UNCRC across every Department and to making sure there is a proactive approach to considering children’s rights in policy making.

I will do my utmost to address all the points raised by my hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing and Shoreham (Tim Loughton). I do join him and my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth South (Mrs Drummond) in praising the incredible work and dedication of our social work workforce—something that was reiterated by the hon. Member for South Shields (Mrs Lewell-Buck). Children’s and adults’ social workers do a fantastic job, which is so difficult, day in, day out.

I agree that the administrative burdens on social workers—sitting in front of computers filling in forms—has hampered much of the progress of social work. I have read on several occasions the report, “No More Blame Game”, which my hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing and Shoreham was instrumental in producing. The whole purpose of the changes we are making to the serious case review process is to get away from pointing the finger and to look at where things have gone wrong, why they have gone wrong and how we make sure that it does not happen again in future.

My hon. Friend set out some of the highlights of the Government’s reform programme in children’s social care over the past six years, mentioning Staying Put as one of those. I can inform him that there has been an exceptional response to this, with 54% of 18-year-olds, 30% of 19-year-olds and 16% of 20-year-olds now choosing to stay put. Of course, however, we keep the mechanism under review to ensure that it will continue to benefit more children and young people in future.

My hon. Friend talked about some of the deficiencies in the system, including in sharing best practice. Again, I agree. That is why we are setting up a What Works centre for children’s social care that will build a robust evidence base, and disseminate learning about what does and does not work in children’s social care practice, in order to help local practitioners and commissioners to employ the most cost-effective front-line practices to support children. Crucially, it will work closely with the child safeguarding practice review panel to ensure that practice developments identified through reviews are also widely disseminated.

On adoption, I share my hon. Friend’s pride in the work of this Government to try to improve the adoption process for prospective adopters and, crucially, for children. The number of children being adopted has risen to over 5,000 per year, and they are being adopted more quickly. On the back of the Re B-S judgment, however, there has been a disappointing fall in those numbers, and we are seeking to do all we can to address that so that we do not lose the ground that we made up in the early years of this Government. Over 10,000 families have benefited directly from the adoption support fund, which was also mentioned by my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke (Mrs Miller). Although we reluctantly had to put in a fair access limit in the short term to enable more families, where at all possible, to benefit from the fund, we want to try to find a sustainable solution so that we can continue this support in the long term. I am happy to meet my right hon. Friend to look at the particular case she raised, as it may exemplify some of the wider issues we need to look at in getting the decision right.

My hon. Friend the Member for East Worthing and Shoreham asked whether the corporate parenting principles are additional to section 23 of the Children Act 1989. This is not about trying to put new duties on local authorities, as the duties are already very clearly set out. We are trying to engender a whole-council approach with councils taking responsibility for children and their care, and having regard to the principles in any decisions they make on their behalf.

Although we are extending the use of personal advisers, I concur with my hon. Friend that there is a whole range of quality and access for care leavers to personal advisers. That is why we are conducting a review of both those issues to make sure that the scope of what a personal adviser is there to do, and the types of people who become personal advisers, together with the training that they get, really matches the needs of care leavers in the way that they have told us they desperately want.

My hon. Friend raised some drafting issues and details around the additional support for education of children in care. I will look at that carefully, and I am sure we will address those issues in Committee.

On serious case reviews, I could not agree more with my hon. Friend about the need for transparency. We worked hard in opposition on the issue of their publication. I remember substituting for him on “Newsnight” to talk about this very subject. We now need to make sure that the new system reflects this important element of an approach that will provide us with a shining light on where practice has fallen short.

My hon. Friend asked about active participation in new local safeguarding arrangements, including financial contributions. That is an important part of the new system and we will set out in more detail, in guidance, how we expect to engender such an approach. He also made a clear pitch for where we should go next with the power to innovate. I will talk about that at the end of my speech.

My hon. Friend the Member for Enfield, Southgate (Mr Burrowes) asked about cases of mothers who have repeat pregnancies. He should know that we will spend a total of about £11 million until 2020 on the Pause project, which has been extremely successful in trying to break that cycle, helping mothers find a different path through their lives and reducing the number of children coming into the care system.

The hon. Member for Walthamstow (Stella Creasy) talked about the need to concentrate on prevention, which has to be at the heart of any decision about where money should be spent and where policy should be moving to. A number of other hon. Members also talked about sex and relationships education, and I will come to that subject towards the end of my speech.

On child refugees, the hon. Lady referred to my written statement on the safeguarding strategy across Government. I am grateful for her support for it, but she queried how it sits alongside the Home Office guidance. I will look carefully at what she has said and talk to Home Office Ministers. The Home Office has published guidance setting out the eligibility criteria for children to be transferred to the UK from Calais. Those criteria are: all children aged 12 or under; all children referred to us by the French authorities who are assessed as being at high risk of sexual exploitation; and those nationalities most likely to qualify for refugee status in the UK aged 15 or under. As the Dubs amendment makes clear, children transferred should be refugees, and the best interests of the child are also established in every case as part of the process. The hon. Lady will appreciate that we have to have a method to ensure that those children who are at greatest risk are prioritised. I am happy to discuss the matter further with her, in conjunction with my colleagues at the Home Office.

Stella Creasy Portrait Stella Creasy
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

Does the Minister acknowledge that that guidance explicitly sets out nationality before the best interests of the child and, further, that it identifies particular nationalities, thereby ignoring, for example, the Oromo and Afghan children who are currently in France, a third of whom have now gone missing because of the gap that it has caused? I appreciate the Minister’s offer to look carefully at the situation, but will he look at it speedily as well, because we are very worried about those children in the run-up to Christmas and the cold in France?

Edward Timpson Portrait Edward Timpson
- Hansard - - - Excerpts

I am happy to do that. Like the hon. Lady, I do not want to create conditions that are counterproductive to our shared mission. I will make sure that acknowledgment of the further work that needs to be done is as rapid as possible and that we progress in a way that does not create more difficulties, but that brings about positive solutions.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke mentioned the adoption case in her constituency. I am happy to discuss that further with her. We need to move to a more sustainable approach, but the adoption support fund has shown that there was a real need for that additional therapeutic support. As the Minister with responsibility for children, I am committed to doing what we can to continue to do that into the future.

My hon. Friend the Member for Rochester and Strood (Kelly Tolhurst) spoke of her enduring experience of many issues touched on by the Bill. In particular, she raised delays in the adoption process, and I agree with much of what she said. She will be pleased to know that the average time that it takes for a child to get through the adoption system has reduced to 18 months—a reduction of four months from its peak—but more work needs to be done, because every month that goes by is one that the child will never get back. More children are receiving that adoption support and I know that my hon. Friend will ensure that that message gets through to families in her own area who may not yet realise that it is available. She was also clear that the new provisions for care leavers are a major step forward, but I acknowledge that we need to make sure that social workers and personal advisers have the necessary tools to make the most of those changes.

I am grateful for the support of my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth South for our measures to improve the support for care leavers. She raised the issue of a national offer. I have met the relevant Minister at the Department for Work and Pensions to see what further practical action we can take, and I will be able to allude to that in more detail in Committee. I take her point on social worker training, which is very much behind the work that we are doing on the assessment and accreditation process to make sure that we raise standards in social work wherever possible.

The hon. Member for South Shields and I get on very well, but I agreed with very little of what she had to offer this afternoon. She questioned the value that we place on the experience and expertise of social workers, but I have to say to her that that is exactly what this Bill is about. I ask her to look more widely at the work that the Government are doing, such as the innovation programme, where we have already spent more than £100 million. That money has gone directly to local authorities to test new ways of working, and there will be another £200 million up to 2020. That £300 million of value has been put directly into improving children’s services.

When the hon. Lady started her speech, I felt as though she was determined to try to turn the debate into some sort of ideological struggle on many of the issues. I do not think she wanted to do that, but we seemed to be moving in that direction. I understand her desire to oppose and to be seen to oppose, but I hope that when we get into Committee, we can have a constructive debate about what is in the Bill and how it fits into the wider Government programme. I do not doubt that we have a shared desire to improve outcomes for vulnerable children. I have a pragmatic streak running through me; I am not some ideologue who will sit here and create a wall of noise. I want to hear the hon. Lady’s argument, but I want her to hear mine, too.

The hon. Lady raised the LaingBuisson report, but I note that she failed to share with the House the official Government response to that report, which states that

“we disagree with the option in the report relating to the privatisation of children’s social care services and we will not be implementing this option.”

We could not be clearer about our position.

I want briefly to talk about the power to innovate, which has generated the most debate. Several hon. Members have raised questions about the power to innovate, a provision that was removed from the Bill in the other place, and which my hon. Friend the Minister for School Standards referred to at the opening of the debate. We intend to revisit those powers, because of the important role that they stand to play in improving the quality of children’s social care. I am grateful to my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke for her support in explaining that new ways of working are a means of driving improvement in practice.

Whenever I visit local authorities and speak to front-line social workers—I am obviously not meeting the same ones as the hon. Member for South Shields—I am always struck by the passion, energy and dedication that they bring to their work. Too often, though, I leave with a message that, rather than helping them in their task, the structures and processes that we have put in place prevent social workers from using their professional judgement to truly respond to the needs of the children they look after.

As Professor Eileen Munro’s landmark review of child protection told us, over-regulation can get in the way of social workers’ ability to put children first. The power will address that challenge, and it is being called for by local authorities around the country. It will give councils the ability to test new ways of working that are designed to improve outcomes for children in a safe and controlled environment, where the impact of removing a specific requirement can be measured and evaluated carefully.

That is not to say that important points have not been raised in the House and in the other place. I have considered them all carefully and I will continue to do so, and I will bring back a power with significant changes and additional safeguards that will, I hope, provide the reassurances that have been requested.

I want to be clear: we do not want to privatise protection services for children. We will not privatise child protection services. There are already clear legislative restrictions on the outsourcing of children’s social care functions, and it was never our intention to use the power to innovate to revisit those. To put that beyond doubt, however, we tabled clarificatory amendments in the other place.

Neither will we remove fundamental rights or protections from children. Our aim is to strengthen, not to weaken, protections. My mission—since entering this House and before—has always been to improve the lives of vulnerable children. It is our job as a Government to create the conditions in which excellent practice can flourish. I am convinced that with proper safeguards in place, the ability to pilot new approaches will, in the long term, allow this House to enact more effective, evidence-based legislation and drive wider improvement for our most innovative practitioners and services across the system.

I agreed with Professor Eileen Munro when she said:

“I welcome the introduction of the power to innovate set out in the Children and Social Work Bill. This is a critical part of the journey set out in my Independent Review of Child Protection towards a child welfare system that reflects the complexity and diversity of children’s needs.

Trusting professionals to use their judgement rather than be forced to follow unnecessary legal rules will help ensure children get the help they need, when they need it. Testing innovation in a controlled way to establish the consequences of the change…is a sensible and proportionate way forward.”

I ask hon. Members, before casting a final judgment on the power to innovate, to consider the amendments that we intend to table, which I believe provide that “sensible and proportionate” approach, built on the clear and single purpose of improving the outcomes of vulnerable children.

Finally, my right hon. Friend the Member for Basingstoke, my hon. Friend the Member for Stroud and the hon. Member for Walthamstow spoke powerfully about sex and relationships education. I, too, recognise its importance. Of course, the Government already issue statutory guidance on the teaching of sex and relationships, and have made funding available to improve the quality of that teaching. However, I have heard the call to go further in this area to build the resilience and confidence of children and young people in tackling what the modern world throws at them, not least online. This is, of course, a topic on which there are many, and strongly held, views and it will be important to look at those in the round, not least because PSHE and SRE are inextricably linked.

This matter is a priority for the Secretary of State, so I have already asked officials to advise me further on it, but I will ask them to accelerate that work so that I can report on our conclusions at a later point in the Bill’s passage, when everyone in the House will be able to look at them and have their say.

I am sure that these reflections only start to do justice to the range of important issues we have debated here today. I look forward to picking up these matters in greater detail as the Bill moves into Committee. I see the contents of the Children and Social Work Bill as a major step forward in making sure that our most vulnerable children get the levels of support, protection and opportunity that any of us would want for our own children. I welcome the debate and challenge we have engaged in this afternoon—it helps to maintain the momentum behind what is a shared endeavour across these Houses. We are all united in our commitment to improving the lives of our most vulnerable children. Please let me leave the House in no doubt that I recognise and accept the challenges we face. This Government are more determined than ever to rise to those challenges, with our clear and ambitious plan for fundamentally reforming the system. Our vulnerable children deserve no less. I commend the Bill to the House.

Question put and agreed to.

Bill accordingly read a Second time.

Children and Social Work Bill [Lords] (Programme)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 83A(7)),

That the following provisions shall apply to the Children and Social Work Bill [Lords]:

Committal

(1) The Bill shall be committed to a Public Bill Committee.

Proceedings in Public Bill Committee

(2) Proceedings in the Public Bill Committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion on Tuesday 17 January 2017.

(3) The Public Bill Committee shall have leave to sit twice on the first day on which it meets.

Proceedings on Consideration and up to and including Third Reading

(4) Proceedings on Consideration and proceedings in legislative grand committee shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion one hour before the moment of interruption on the day on which those proceedings are commenced.

(5) Proceedings on Third Reading shall (so far as not previously concluded) be brought to a conclusion at the moment of interruption on that day.

(6) Standing Order No. 83B (Programming committees) shall not apply to proceedings on Consideration and up to and including Third Reading.

Other proceedings

(7) Any other proceedings on the Bill (including any proceedings on consideration of any message from the Lords) may be programmed.—(Andrew Griffiths.)

Question agreed to.

Children and Social Work Bill [Lords] (Money)

Question’s recommendation signified.

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)),

That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Children and Social Work Bill [Lords], it is expedient to authorise the payment out of money provided by Parliament of—

(1) any expenditure incurred under or by virtue of the Act by a Minister of the Crown, and

(2) any increase attributable to the Act in the sums payable under any other Act out of money so provided.—(Andrew Griffiths.)

Question agreed to.

Children and Social Work Bill [Lords] (Ways and Means)

Motion made, and Question put forthwith (Standing Order No. 52(1)(a)),

That, for the purposes of any Act resulting from the Children and Social Work Bill [Lords], it is expedient to authorise the charging of fees.—(Andrew Griffiths.)

Question agreed to.

Children and Social Work Bill [ Lords ] (First sitting)

(Limited Text - Ministerial Extracts only)

Read Full debate
Committee Debate: 1st sitting: House of Commons
Tuesday 13th December 2016

(7 years, 10 months ago)

Public Bill Committees
Children and Social Work Act 2017 Read Hansard Text Amendment Paper: Public Bill Committee Amendments as at 13 December 2016 - (13 Dec 2016)