Victims of Libyan-sponsored IRA Terrorism: Compensation

Tobias Ellwood Excerpts

Tuesday 13th September 2016 Westminster Hall

[Andrew Rosindell (Romford) (Con)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Ryan. I commend my hon. Friend the Member for South Suffolk (James Cartlidge) for bringing this matter to the Floor of the House and for the extremely valuable contributions that he has made to the parliamentary support group for United Kingdom victims of Libyan/IRA terrorism. I thank all hon. Members for their support for this very important and worthwhile cause.

I would like to refer directly to the debate earlier this year initiated by the hon. Member for Poplar and Limehouse (Jim Fitzpatrick), in whose constituency the docklands bombing took place in 1996, and to some of the answers given by the Minister who replied to that debate, in the hope that the Minister today will consider different responses to the issue. The Minister in that debate, my hon. Friend the Member for East Hampshire (Damian Hinds), tried to claim that the issue of compensation in this case was different from others. I would like to address directly some of his points and explain why I and members of the parliamentary support group believe that the UK should obtain compensation for the victims. I appeal to this Minister to rethink how the Government approach the issue.

The Minister in the previous debate implied that victims of bombs that contained Libyan-supplied Semtex should be somehow treated differently, as those bombings were indirect acts of state agents from Libya. Of course, the Lockerbie bombing victims were treated as victims of direct actions by Libyan agents. Why are the two types of terrorism treated differently? To me, that makes no sense, and I doubt that uncompensated victims will agree with such meaningless distinctions between the two types of terrorism.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

First, I want to make it clear that this is a passionate debate and very important points have been made, but the Lockerbie bombing was directly linked to the Libyans. Where things become difficult is when a third party is involved in state sponsorship of terrorism. That is the distinction that we find. I am not saying that we should not pursue this issue. I am actively doing that and doing my best to do it, but it is not as clear-cut as when an aeroplane is taken out of the sky deliberately by the Libyans themselves. That was the link that the Americans made in seeking compensation. In addition to that, they wrapped into the compensation package other events as well, just to conclude the entire deal. That made it extremely fuzzy, but the US managed to succeed in doing that. I question why the Government of the day in this country did not do something similar.

[Andrew Rosindell]

I hear what the Minister says, but the reality is that if someone is a victim of terrorism, they are a victim of terrorism and the UK Government have a responsibility to act and ensure that there is fairness and that compensation is paid.

The reason why Gaddafi supplied the IRA was to retaliate against UK policy at the time. The Libyan regime may have used the IRA to do its dirty work, but it was a political decision by Tripoli, and Her Majesty’s subjects were harmed as a result.

The Minister at the time of the debate earlier this year, my hon. Friend the Member for East Hampshire, also stated that the US victims received compensation because Libya approached the US directly and Gaddafi wanted to be readmitted “to the international fold”. The facts are that in January 2008 the US Congress passed a law that allowed victims of Libyan terrorism to enforce their damages against Libyan assets held by US companies. The end result was the 2008 US/Libya Claims Settlement Agreement. Why did the United Kingdom not pursue a similar approach? Why did Britain not make it a condition of its détente with Libya that the compensation issue had to be resolved? If this gave the United States a bargaining chip with the Gaddafi regime, that begs the question why the UK did not raise this when the Prime Minister at the time, Tony Blair, travelled to Tripoli in 2004 and 2007. Surely the UK should have used opportunities such as those visits to raise this vital issue for UK victims too, and to negotiate a settlement with Libya. Why did that not happen?

[Mr Ellwood]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for giving way again. The Select Committee needs to invite Tony Blair to stand in front of it and answer those questions. That is what I would encourage the Select Committee to do and I am aware that its Chair is here listening to this.

[Andrew Rosindell]

I hope that the former Prime Minister will make himself available to the Committee, but that is a matter for the Select Committee. I would like to address what our Government can do today to help the victims of that terrorism.

There have been multiple opportunities to raise this with the new Libyan Governments following the fall of the Gaddafi regime. Given our offer of financial and military assistance as well as trade, why has this not been pursued at the same time? My hon. Friend the Member for East Hampshire also said that one of the reasons the Lockerbie bombing claimants received compensation was that they had the support of a United Nations Security Council resolution, so why should the UK not be lobbying the Council for the same support?

Lastly, I refer to the point made by the former Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for East Hampshire that:

“The Libyans see themselves as victims of Gaddafi, not the bearers of his legacy.”—[Official Report, 23 February 2016; Vol. 606, c. 33WH.]

That, too, is no excuse not to proceed. The UK victims of Libyan-sponsored IRA terrorism are also victims of Gaddafi. It is clear that if the victims are to receive any kind of justice and compensation, Her Majesty’s Government urgently need to consider two options. Either Her Majesty’s Government accept that they have failed to defend the interests of their civilians and pay compensation directly to the victims, or the Government agree to pay compensation in an interim period, to prevent victims waiting any longer, with the intention of recovering that money from those responsible when the time is appropriate. The point underlying those options is that the victims should receive compensation as soon as possible.

With regard to the first option, the Government must accept some responsibility for the fact that the victims have not received compensation up to now. Nobody has received one single penny, and that should not be acceptable. It is the responsibility of the UK Government to protect UK citizens from international terrorism and, in the case of failing to secure compensation for victims of Libyan-sponsored IRA terrorism, they have failed. It is true that Libya is currently an unstable state, and that setting up negotiations with the Libyan Government would be difficult, but this is the fault of the UK Government for not having attempted such negotiations before 2011. Her Majesty’s Government must surely not miss any opportunity to raise this issue with the Government of Libya—fragile or not—today. Will the Minister assure the House that this will now happen?

The second option is for Her Majesty’s Government to espouse the claims by paying the victims compensation themselves, with the objective of recovering the money from Libya through either negotiations or the use of frozen assets. That would allow for the current instability in Libya, but address the fact that the victims have been waiting too long and indefinitely. We have a responsibility to obtain compensation for the victims as soon as possible, not years down the line when many may no longer be with us. Additionally, the UK Government should allow the UN and the EU to change the current licensing framework so that frozen assets can be used to recover the money. I understand the challenges that such a task would involve, but it would send a strong signal, at home and abroad, that the UK supports its victims of terrorism and that they will not be abandoned.

Until now, it is clear that the UK Government have not done enough to support the UK victims of Libyan-sponsored IRA terrorism. The Foreign and Commonwealth Office unit that was set up by Gordon Brown’s Government appears to have done little for the victims, apart from provide them with false hope. The Department holds the policy of not espousing private claims, but these are not simply private, because their cause is tied up with international politics. This is an abdication of its moral and legal responsibility and I do not believe that Members of this House should accept it for one moment longer. I say to the Minister that Her Majesty’s Government have a duty to act immediately to secure compensation for the long waiting, and greatly deserving, victims of these atrocities.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Ms Ryan. I begin, as others have done, by underlining the importance of this debate in the wider picture of ensuring that the Government have a better understanding of these critical matters. I am grateful that the legislature is able to continue holding the Executive to account on an extremely sensitive issue—the legislature has been tested by the length of time it is taking to resolve these important matters. I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for South Suffolk (James Cartlidge) on his contribution; indeed, I congratulate all hon. Members on their very moving and pertinent contributions today.

When I first came across this issue before the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, I did not know a huge amount of detail, as was evident by the types of answers that I then provided. I hope that my answers today will express a determination to stick to the course, which I would have done even had I moved away from the Foreign Office. Thankfully I continue in this post, and I endeavour to do what I can to work with fellow parliamentarians to ensure that we can push this cause forward.

As has been recognised here today, the situation in Libya is at the heart of the issue and is a cause of absolute frustration in our not being able to move this forward. The situation is testing the patience of those seeking compensation. Until Libya has a Government we can work with, we are simply not able to consider what to do with the frozen assets—we are simply not able to have those conversations. Every time I have addressed this matter in Parliament, I have been pleased to say that the situation in Libya is incrementally better, and the same is true today. However, the situation is still very delicate. The Government of national accord, under Prime Minister Sarraj, are having a tough time of bringing together societies that for 40 years under Gaddafi had no ability to flourish. Our embassy is not fully functioning, and our ability to move in and out is still restricted, as expressed by our travel advice. As has been mentioned, Daesh is moving into certain areas and towns. The situation is difficult, but it is better than the last time I spoke to the House on this issue.

[Lady Hermon]

The Minister has listened carefully to the evidence given to the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee, of which I am pleased to be a member. I have a specific point on the 2011 EU regulation governing the freezing of assets. That regulation was implemented in the UK, but the Brexit decision means that the Government are free from that regulation. As there are no additional domestic measures on the freezing of Libyan assets, will he confirm that this is part of the Brexit negotiations?

[Mr Ellwood]

If hon. Members allow me, I will do my best to answer all the questions. My hon. Friend the Member for Romford (Andrew Rosindell) also mentioned Brexit—he is characteristically on top of Brexit matters—and my direct answer is that I am afraid that that is not the case. First, many of the EU’s financial regulations have been written or espoused by Britain because we led on financial services. Secondly, we are governed by UN regulations, and those are the ones of which we would be in breach. I will come and speak to the hon. Member for North Down (Lady Hermon) about that in more detail.

I met the Prime Minister-designate, as he then was, back in November 2015. I had subsequent meetings with the Foreign Minister of Libya, and I hope to meet him at the UN General Assembly next week—I will be raising this matter, too. Our new Foreign Secretary has also raised this matter, and our previous Foreign Secretary, now the Chancellor, raised it when he visited Tripoli only a few months ago. I wrote to Libya’s then Justice Minister about the formation of the committee on this very issue, but there has since been a reshuffle—that happens, as we know—and the justice post is currently vacant. I am waiting to see who the new Justice Minister is. I will be making contact to pursue these matters as soon as that appointment is made.

[Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Ellwood]

I will give way. I am conscious that I have a lot to get through, so I ask that the intervention is short.

[Kevin Foster]

I thank the Minister for giving way. I will be very brief. Will he make it clear that, whatever Government emerge, we will expect them to take some responsibility? There are examples from history. Germany rejected Nazism, but the Government who were eventually formed still paid compensation to its victims.

[Mr Ellwood]

We need to make a powerful case that there was clearly state-sponsored terrorism, with devastating effects in Northern Ireland. I will continue to make that case in New York next week, but I will also do so in further meetings as relationships with Libya become stronger.

Frozen assets have been mentioned several times. If we dip into the frozen assets based in this country, where would that take our relationship with Libya as a whole, when we are about to have the very conversations that my hon. Friend just mentioned? We need to be careful. I pose some difficult questions to the House. How much would we take? To whom would we give the money? How would we distinguish between somebody injured by Semtex, where it is very clear—Semtex has a footprint that can be identified because of the way it is made by hand—and somebody injured by ammunition provided by Libya? These are difficult questions that those involved in compensation need to start thinking about.

Were we ever to get any form of compensation from Libya, I suspect that we would need to get our heads around the idea that it will be a single sum that is slid across the table. It will be for the victims’ organisations to assess how the compensation is divided up, as those in authority in Libya would not want to be involved in the detail. I share that now because these are awkward, difficult questions.

One Member talked about the mental scars that have been caused. People who have not necessarily come forward yet are subject to these issues, which raise difficult questions. When we speak about frozen assets and so forth, let us also ask ourselves exactly what the mechanisms will be if we go down that road—let us do the homework—so that we are prepared if such questions are asked of us.

However, I do not want to raise any expectations at all. Ultimately, we still need to convince the necessary authorities that they will speak for what a previous Government under Gaddafi did by putting their hand up and saying that they sponsored terrorism through the IRA. I am also aware that a private Member’s Bill is coming through from the Lords—my hon. Friend the Member for Romford might be involved in that as well—so we will undoubtedly explore such issues in due course.

On asset freezing and Brexit, as I said, maybe I can write to the hon. Member for North Down in more detail, but the issues are subject to myriad regulations, some of which involve the EU, from which we might be liberated if article 50 passes. Nevertheless, the reputation of the City of London is also involved, which is significant as well. If we are seen to dip into assets, where does that place Britain as a safe place to do business? Morally, we might say, “Absolutely. Let’s go down this road and take those assets.” I simply suggest that there will be consequences if we do so.

[Sir Gerald Howarth]

Surely there is a simple solution. We are masters of our own destiny—even more so after Brexit. Let us just pass a Bill. This House is sovereign; we can write our own laws.

[Mr Ellwood]

As I said, that is an option that we can consider, but it has severe consequences, which is why I would not recommend it when we are about to embark on discussions. If there is any whiff that we are about to dip into frozen assets to the tune of £9 billion, where will that take our relationship with Libya? There would be consequences. I will make it clear: our objective is to gain compensation, but our strategy to gain that compensation should take us to the best possible place, rather than making us enemies along the way.

[Catherine West]

What assessment have the Minister’s civil servants made of the varying degrees of need? We know that some victims are in desperate need—today, not in the future. What assessment has been made of their varying levels of need?

[Mr Ellwood]

It is not for me to do that. I am the Minister in the Foreign Office. When I visited Northern Ireland, it became apparent to me that there were cases in which those subject to violence and terrorism there by the IRA were perhaps not receiving as much compensation as they should. I pass on such matters, but they are not for me as a Foreign Minister to pursue. I am helping with the link with Libya.

There are various schemes in place. I am involved in supporting those affected by the Sousse terrorist attacks to ensure that they receive the necessary compensation. There is a criminal injuries compensation scheme, as well as one tailored to Northern Ireland. If they do not meet the support needs of those affected, that is a domestic matter that must be pursued, and I will encourage that, but it is not for me to pursue it. However, I will discuss it with the new Secretary of State for Northern Ireland.

[Ian Paisley]

To be frank, it is a bit of a red herring to be arguing in this debate about dipping in. That is part of the drive of the Bill in the other place. We argued for something very separate: Her Majesty’s Government should make a payment in lieu. That would involve the Minister at the Foreign Office having a discussion with Her Majesty’s Treasury and coming up with some way to underwrite that payment. Is that a possibility?

[Mr Ellwood]

Again, time is limited. There is a Bill coming through, and it will have its Second Reading on the Floor of this House. We can have that debate then; it would be the most appropriate time to do so. The frozen assets do not belong to the Gaddafi family; they belong to the state and the people of Libya. That is the international law by which we abide. We can release, unfreeze or touch those frozen assets only when there is a secure and stable state to return them to. To do anything else would be unlawful. I want to make that clear.

Moving on to some of the other points made, the hon. Member for North Antrim (Ian Paisley) covered the issue of frozen assets, but also spoke about the strategy. Let me make it clear: if we go down the road of using frozen assets, we are basically saying that we do not want to have the conversations with Libya that we are about to embark on. We must be clear about where to focus our energy. We have made it clear that the Government will not espouse individual claims, but I will lead a delegation to knock on the Justice Minister’s door to pursue compensation. If Libya and Tripoli are not safe enough, let us ask them to come to London so we can have those conversations here. That is my commitment to ensuring that we pursue and continue the dialogue. I think and hope that that strategy will meet with the agreement of all hon. Members who have spoken in this debate.

My hon. Friend the Member for Romford also spoke about comparing the aid budget, as is often done in such cases, suggesting that we should hold it back to encourage compensation to be paid. Again, that would have huge consequences. He will be aware, as are others here, of what is happening on the Libyan sea front. Criminal gangs are using rickety boats to bring people across the sea. Our aid budget assists in preventing that from happening. There would be direct consequences for other aspects of Libya, including support for the fight against terrorism, so it might be unhelpful from that perspective. However, I absolutely agree that there should be a quid pro quo to encourage things to happen. I am being careful while saying this, because there are civil servants looking at me with big eyes, but our genuine further commitment should be based on what progress we see, not least on this particular issue. I will leave it at that for the moment.

The hon. Member for South Down (Ms Ritchie) talked about justice and accountability, which are an important part of this issue. It is about ensuring that Libya not only recognises the need for compensation but puts up its hands, in the way that we have seen with the United States. I am conscious of the time, so I will just touch on the United States. That was a political agreement, not a financial package of compensation. It was about bringing Gaddafi in from the cold. That is why, in my earlier intervention, I suggested inviting Tony Blair to make a statement on the matter. Clarity is needed on what happened in 2008 and why we did not pursue something similar. That was our opportunity, and I believe that that opportunity was missed.

I will wind up my speech, if I may, because there were many more questions to be answered. In my usual style, I will write to hon. Members with more details on the questions they have asked, but I hope that I have exhibited some passion and determination in saying that I absolutely want to ensure that this Government do what we can to hold Libya to account and give it the opportunity to do the right thing by recognising the case for compensation. Perhaps it can be tied to when the assets are released. That would be a major step forward in strengthening the bond between our two countries. Much hinges on the progress made in Libya. It has been very slow indeed, much to the frustration of everyone.

Chibok Schoolgirls

Tobias Ellwood Excerpts

Thursday 8th September 2016 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby (Stephen Twigg) on securing this important debate. He does incredible work as Chair of the International Development Committee. He raises the interesting concept—I do not know whether we can formalise it—that when the Committee makes such a visit perhaps there should be a more formal opportunity to present its findings, rather than simply producing a standard report. Members on both sides of the House have articulated a sense of knowledge and expertise, as well as a commitment to really understand these issues and to press the Government, and indeed the international community, to see what more we can do. Hearing people say that is more powerful than any report, even though the report is valuable, too.

I congratulate the hon. Gentleman on leading the Committee’s visit in March. It was clearly very productive. I join him and other hon. Members, some of whom are wearing their “Bring Back Our Girls” campaign badges with pride to raise the campaign’s profile—as has been mentioned, the campaign has reached the White House and elsewhere—in reminding people that it has now been a couple of years since the horrible abduction of these missing children. I am pleased that we have this opportunity to debate the matter, which allows me, as the Minister with responsibility for Africa, to place on the record what the Government are doing.

There has been a huge number of questions, as there always is. I will do my best to answer them in the time provided but, as usual, I will write to Members in detail if I am not able to provide the necessary full answers here today. We were all very moved by the speech of my hon. Friend the Member for Maidstone and The Weald (Mrs Grant). She has a powerful understanding of what is going on, and she provides a level of expertise and a forthright understanding of what is actually happening there, not least the power of the campaign. I pay tribute to her for raising this matter again and again. We all owe her tribute for her work.

The hon. Member for East Kirkbride (Dr Cameron) made it clear that we know very little about—[Interruption.] Sorry, do I have the constituency wrong? You are laughing at me, but that could be for a myriad reasons.

[Dr Cameron]

It is East Kilbride, Strathaven and Lesmahagow.

[Mr Ellwood]

I now realise why I missed off the last part. The hon. Lady made the astute point that we do not really know what has happened to these girls in the past two years. We absolutely do not know. Anybody who is a parent or who has a sister can only guess what these people are going through and enduring. We need to provide mental support when the girls return because there is no doubt that they have been mentally scarred by what they are going through. That is very important.

[Mr Graham Brady in the Chair]

My hon. Friend the Member for Henley (John Howell) and I had the opportunity to discuss Nigeria only a couple of days ago, when we had our first meeting in the capacity of inviting trade envoys for Africa to the Foreign Office. It was timely for us to engage on that matter. I join others in paying tribute to his work. He reminded us of some of the underlying causes that must be dealt with, not least the economy. We can try to defeat insurgencies militarily, but ultimately, we must give the people and communities something better to look forward to. They need a way of life that is successful and more attractive than that offered by an extremist organisation. The detailed knowledge that he brings is much appreciated.

My hon. Friend mentioned the huge challenge that the size of the country presents. I will touch on that a little later. The scale for the military combing through the various parts of Borno and east Nigeria is immense, which is why the international community must work together. Once we have done that and created an umbrella of security, that is when an economic strategy needs to kick in. The ingredients are there. Nigeria is a powerful country in Africa. As he highlighted, there is much that we can do on bilateral relationships. He has illustrated clearly that he is the right person for the job, and we will continue to work with him.

The hon. Member for Ynys Môn (Albert Owen), if I have pronounced that correctly, spoke about the value of the Committee’s visit in March. I have underlined why I appreciate its work. He emphasised that there are parents out there who are missing their children. We are debating the issue and highlighting it, and there are people watching and discussing it, but there are also parents who are aware every single moment of the day that their loved ones are missing, and we should be conscious of that.

The hon. Member for Glasgow North East (Anne McLaughlin) underlined the value of this debate. She is right that Thursday afternoon is not always the busiest—there are other things going on across the estate—but it is important that we debate such matters, and I hope that we will have a regular opportunity to discuss the wider issues to do with this part of Africa as well as the plight of these schoolgirls. She is right to remind us of that.

The hon. Lady also discussed the call for increased international assistance. At the UN General Assembly in a couple of weeks, we will hold an event to rally further support for what we are doing to assist Nigerians in defeating extremism and freeing the girls. She also highlighted the importance and value of education. If I may, I will write to her in more detail about the DFID programme that is in place and how we are making huge efforts to provide education, particularly to girls, so they can have the best opportunities in life. I will be in touch with her.

[Albert Owen]

The Minister is making an important point. I am sure that Committee members will join me in paying tribute to the DFID and Foreign Office staff in Nigeria, who took us to meet the campaigners. No stone was left unturned; we saw at first hand exactly what the campaign is about and the programmes to make things better.

[Mr Ellwood]

I absolutely concur. I am grateful that that could happen. Looking through my notes, I can see that we have provided support for more than 300,000 additional girls to attend primary school in Nigeria and that more than 50,000 girls have benefited from safe space interventions, which provide training and support to help their confidence and improve their skills, as well as the opportunity to seek work. DFID is providing a package of measures. The Under-Secretary of State for International Development visited Nigeria only a couple of weeks ago, I understand. I must catch up with him before my own visit there in the next month or so. This debate has been timely, as I will need to raise these matters when I visit the country.

The hon. Member for Ealing, Southall (Mr Sharma) spoke of the international community’s wider requirement to work together. Members have been generous in supporting the Government’s initiatives, but ultimately, the more we can lead by example and encourage other countries to join us, the more leverage we have, not just in the military component but in all the other aspects that we have been discussing.

The hon. Member for Hackney South—I have probably missed a bit of that constituency as well. Have I?

[Meg Hillier]

And Shoreditch.

[Mr Ellwood]

I only learn the first bits; it is easier. The hon. Member for Hackney South and Shoreditch (Meg Hillier) gave another great example of the expertise that she brings to the house as chair of the all-party parliamentary group. She was also the first speaker to touch on the importance of the diaspora in this country and the relationships associated with it, separate from the bilateral relationship, the prosperity agenda and so forth. I pay tribute to the pioneering work that she does to ensure that those relationships are strong.

The SNP spokesperson, the hon. Member for Motherwell and Wishaw (Marion Fellows)—have I got that right?

[Marion Fellows]

indicated assent.

[Mr Ellwood]

I am getting better at this, clearly. She spoke about the underlying problems. I will come to that in a second, because it is important to dealing with areas of instability and conflict, which are an incubator for extremism. She gave an important list, including poverty, cultural issues and the role of women and girls in society. In the 21st century, it is important that we can articulate that from an early age, which is exactly what some DFID programmes are doing.

Finally, I turn to some of the questions raised by the Labour spokesperson. Her speech was quite short; she caught me off guard a little by stepping back, but she clearly wanted to give me the most time possible to answer the points. She spoke about post-traumatic services, which must be considered. I do not have the details, but the former Foreign Secretary, now the Chancellor of the Exchequer, raised with President Buhari our concern to ensure that that package of measures is in place. Again, when I go on my visit there, it will be on my list.

[Catherine West]

I understood that the debate would finish at 3 o’clock, but we now have loads of time for interventions. Will the Minister write to the Committee members and to me about the exact provision for women, particularly in relation to some of the healthcare issues that I mentioned, including post-traumatic support and counselling and the depth of those services? It has been highlighted in press reports that some of that provision is not necessarily reaching the ground, and it should be ready in case other girls return who have been abducted or radicalised. We would like the detail.

[Mr Ellwood]

The hon. Lady has explained why she made an uncharacteristically short speech, thinking that the debate would be curtailed at 3 when we actually have more time. I will certainly be able to discuss other things, if there are more that she was hoping to present.

The hon. Lady raises some important questions about post-traumatic services and the role of the envoy. If I may explain, when I invited a number of the Africa envoys to meet me as the Minister for Africa, I wanted to know what the formalities were and how we could utilise them. In his own way, my hon. Friend the Member for Henley put his finger on the point: it varies incredibly according to the enthusiasm of the individual tasked with the job of envoy. I would like to elevate it to a much more formal role, so that envoys are tasked by the Prime Minister, occasionally get access to the Prime Minister at No. 10 to share their thoughts and have to write reports. I understand that none of them has to do so. We have not only a gifted but a committed envoy, who has attended this debate, but there is no requirement for any of the trade envoys actually to produce any work. I think that that is wrong.

We are considering ways we can work together on a more formal footing to leverage the role, because it is important. As we have seen, envoys can get amazing access. Because it says on their business card “Prime Minister’s envoy”, they get incredible access, and that needs to be leveraged appropriately.

[Catherine West]

May I suggest that the Minister not only reaches officials but goes to small business communities, which provide huge opportunities for applying pressure in regional ways? They go into communities in much more depth.

Another point I want to make concerns linking the trade envoy with the all-party group and the Chairman of the International Development Committee and its members. We are all here, so perhaps we could establish a reporting-back system by trade envoys to the Select Committee and to the APPG on occasions, if that is permitted, so that the informal networks that operate among parliamentarians can be enhanced and we close the gap.

[Mr Ellwood]

The hon. Lady is making up for the shortness of her speech with the length of her interventions, but they are welcome. There are useful observations and initiatives to be pursued there.

[John Howell]

The Minister is absolutely right when he says that the trade envoy has unparalleled access in the country. It is unparalleled access to Ministers—indeed, right to the top—and to the companies that are there, big or small. I have already been twice to the APPG and I want to continue to do so, provided I do not have too many reports to write.

[Mr Ellwood]

I think we have some momentum there and certainly some ideas that we need to formalise. That is very much appreciated.

At the core of the problem is not only the challenge of a country that has to deal with the corruption and red tape that we see in many countries in Africa, but the blight of extremism in the form of Boko Haram. Unfortunately, as we have seen with al-Shabaab, Ansar Bait al-Maqdis and Daesh itself, extremist organisations take advantage when there is a power vacuum. They offer something else to the local indigenous people. They say, “Believe in me and I can give you something else.” Unless there is something else as an alternative, they will always win. And—dare I say it?—we saw that in Northern Ireland with the IRA when youngsters saw nothing else on their agenda or in front of them but to join a club, extremist though it might be, because they felt part of something and they got cash and status. That is what is happening in the north-east of Nigeria, and that is what we need to change, as it changed in Northern Ireland. It is a challenge that the international community must face. It is the responsibility not only of Nigeria, but the international community, because the consequences are that the trouble bleeds into neighbouring countries, triggering a refugee crisis, which bleeds into other parts of the world and across the Mediterranean, as we have seen.

Boko Haram’s violent insurgency has resulted in more than 20,000 people being killed in Nigeria and caused more than 2 million people to be displaced. I understand from the UN that 9 million people are in need of assistance across the Lake Chad basin. UN reports also confirm that about 250,000 children are suffering from severe acute malnutrition in the Borno state alone.

As has been mentioned, 276 Chibok girls were abducted in April 2014; 57 escaped and one has been confirmed dead, which leaves 218 still missing. It is the figure of 218 missing that has prompted today’s debate.

Boko Haram has been around for some time. It was formed in 2002 as a Sunni fundamentalist sect, but it has developed into a Salafist jihadi group. It seeks to attract people to join it and to take over and push back the legitimate Government. Today Boko Haram officially refers to itself as the Islamic State’s West Africa Province, because it has decided to join Daesh/ISIS. I am afraid that organisations that are not necessarily attractive themselves are joining that international franchise in the hope that they will then get further funding and advice on how to move their extremism agenda forward. That is of interest to all of us because of where it leads. That is why we have to work not only in Nigeria but in Libya, in Sirte, and wherever the black flag has been taken over by a local terrorist group to further its cause. It is why we are joining with others on the military side and providing intelligence as well.

The international community has responded, as we have heard today. In January 2015 a joint multinational force was formed with units from Benin, Cameroon and Chad, and with Nigerian forces as well. We have provided assistance in three forms, which have been mentioned in the debate. The first is in a military capacity. We have more than 300 personnel involved in training and advising the Nigerian armed forces. We are also providing huge levels of intelligence, although I cannot go into too much detail about that here. Thirdly, and of most interest to the International Development Committee, there is the humanitarian support. There is no doubt that the Nigerian military and the international force have made progress, but, as has been outlined, Nigeria is a massive country. It has often been the case that when the forces have been able to clear an area and move forward, they have not been able to hold it, and that has been a problem. We are getting far better, but it is a challenge. Unfortunately, Boko Haram continues. There was not only the event in 2014 that we are discussing; the horrific attack on the UN convoy that took place in August is an illustration that it remains very active indeed.

We are providing a wide range of support, as the hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby outlined articulately. We have provided support in hostage negotiations, for example, as well as financial support, military support and humanitarian aid, which I will touch on in more detail. The UK has increased its support to £32 million over the next three years. It is not my call—it is DFID’s shout—but we are looking to see what more we can do. That will be subject to debates that we will have at the UN General Assembly, but there is a desire to do more, so I am pleased that this debate can help to frame where some of the extra resources can go.

There has been a series of ministerial visits. Baroness Anelay, the Foreign Office Minister in the Lords, visited in February. The former DFID Minister, my hon. Friend the hon. Member for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (Mr Hurd), visited prior to the change in Prime Minister. As I mentioned, the current DFID Minister with responsibility for Africa visited a few weeks ago, and I will be going in the next month. That shows Nigeria that we care about what is going on. It also allows us to influence in the best possible way how we can support that country along the three tracks that I mentioned—economic, humanitarian and military. We have pushed back Boko Haram, there is no doubt about it, but we have not completed the job yet.

Clearly, as many hon. Members have illustrated in the debate today, we will not defeat Boko Haram militarily. What we have done is not enough. Boko Haram will simply reform and recruit if something better is not put in place. There needs to be economic development and civilian-led security so that people genuinely feel safe. They want not military people in green uniforms but civilian operators, with gendarmes policing and so forth.

We also need improved governance. We need councils and mayors in place, and for governance to work, we need people who are respected and not corrupted to make the local decisions. We need better delivery of basic services such as education and health, which are the basic pillars for any community to be able to move forward. The Nigerian Government recognise that and have been open and have put their hands up about where support is required. That was outlined in the Abuja regional summit in May, and there will be further big conferences with a focus on that issue. Our support reflects that approach, in the sense that we are placing our focus not just on the military but across the piece. As I mentioned, these matters will be considered at the United Nations General Assembly, and I hope that that will deal with not only Nigeria but the whole Lake Chad basin, because there is a need to see things in context.

This has been an extremely important debate, and I am pleased to have listened to the contributions, because of the depth of knowledge shown in them and because Parliament is demanding a commitment from the Government to continue focusing on the matter and make it a priority for Africa.

[Albert Owen]

The Minister has been very keen to get other people doing extra work—the Select Committee, the envoy and others. Does he intend that after the debate, in the new climate, a Foreign Office statement should be made so that the campaigners who asked for the debate—we are honouring a pledge to them—can hear that the British Government stand in solidarity with them?

[Mr Ellwood]

I should be more than delighted. The hon. Gentleman’s comments are slightly disingenuous, as I was not trying simply to outsource work. I am going to go to Nigeria myself to see what I can do. I like to think that given my close relationship with my DFID counterpart I can again focus on this issue, which the United States is also keen to look at.

[Mr Virendra Sharma]

I hope that at this important time, with the visit next week, the Minister will be able to visit the group to show his solidarity and commitment.

[Mr Ellwood]

I have actually made that request already. We will already have fed that in and said that it is important that I get to meet the group, as the Committee did.

As for a statement, I shall look at the best timing. Rather than simply providing an update, which I think I have done, we need to confirm that there are new steps being taken. I have spoken about our desire to do something, and when that is articulated and formed a statement can be made to update the entire House. I agree that that would be a useful move.

I am grateful to the hon. Member for Liverpool, West Derby for obtaining the debate, and to all those who have supported it and made contributions. I have outlined our commitment to continuing to support Nigeria in its quest to defeat extremism.

Humanitarian Law (Yemen)

Tobias Ellwood Excerpts

Monday 5th September 2016 Commons Chamber

[Hilary Benn (Leeds Central) (Lab)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs if he will make a statement on Government assessments of breaches of international humanitarian law in Yemen.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

I should like to thank the right hon. Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn) for raising this important matter and to pay tribute to him for his work on keeping the House up to date on these matters and providing the scrutiny we need. Recognising the importance of the issue, my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary issued a written ministerial statement today to update Parliament on the situation in Yemen, and this update specifically includes references to international humanitarian law.

We are aware of reports of alleged violations of international humanitarian law by parties to the conflict. As I have said on many occasions, we take these allegations very seriously. The Government regularly raise the importance of compliance with international humanitarian law with the Saudi Arabian Government and other members of the Saudi Arabian-led military coalition. The Foreign Secretary raised the issue of international humanitarian law compliance most recently with his Saudi counterpart, Foreign Minister Adel al-Jubeir, on 22 August. I also did so in Jeddah on 25 August, at the Yemen conference chaired by Secretary John Kerry.

It is important that, in the first instance, the Saudi Arabian-led coalition conducts thorough and conclusive investigations into incidents where it is alleged that international humanitarian law has been breached. This follows international practice. The coalition has the best insight into its own military procedures and will be able to conduct the most thorough and conclusive investigations. This will also allow the coalition forces to understand what went wrong and to apply the lessons learned in the best possible way. This is the standard that we set for ourselves and our allies. In this respect, Saudi Arabia announced more detail of how incidents of concern involving coalition forces are investigated on 31 January. The Saudi Arabian-led coalition joint investigations assessment team publicly announced the outcome of eight investigations on 4 August, and further publications will follow.

I also want to reiterate that clarifications made in the 21 July written ministerial statement do not reflect a change in position. The changes were made to ensure that the parliamentary record is consistent and that it accurately reflects policy. The statement of 21 July outlines that it is

“important to make clear that neither the MOD nor the FCO reaches a conclusion as to whether or not an IHL violation has taken place in relation to each and every incident of potential concern that comes to its attention. This would simply not be possible in conflicts to which the UK is not a party, as is the case in Yemen.”

The MOD monitors incidents of alleged international humanitarian law violations using the available information. This has been used to form an overall view on Saudi Arabia’s approach and attitude to international humanitarian law. In turn, that informs the risk assessment made under the consolidated criteria on whether there is a risk that something might be used in the commission of a serious violation of international humanitarian law. We are not acting to determine whether a sovereign state has or has not acted in the breach of international humanitarian law. Instead, as criterion 2(c) requires, we are acting to make an overall judgment.

I am sorry that there has been confusion. We are responding to two written ministerial statements that were in error. After trawling through other such statements, of which there are more than 90, four more were seen to be in error. I came to the House today in order to clarify that, but as soon as I became aware of it I made a statement and wrote to the right hon. Gentleman and the Chairs of the International Development Committee, the Committees on Arms Export Controls, and the Foreign Affairs Committee. I hope that that has clarified the situation.

[Hilary Benn]

I thank the Minister for his reply. As he knows, there have been many reports by the UN and others of breaches of international humanitarian law in Yemen by both the Houthis and the Saudi-led coalition, which uses British military equipment. Ministers have been repeatedly questioned about that and the Government told the House that they

“have assessed that there has not been a breach of IHL by the coalition.”

Then, as we have just been told, on 21 July—by chance, the day on which the House rose—a written ministerial statement corrected that and other answers, stating that the Government have

“been unable to assess that there has been a breach of IHL by the Saudi-led Coalition.”

That is the very opposite of what the House had been repeatedly told. I listened carefully to what the Minister had to say, but he offered no satisfactory explanation of why that happened. First, will he do so now? It was not a minor correction but a consistent failure to provide Members with accurate answers.

Secondly, the mistakes were identified on 24 June, as I understand it, but they were not reported to the House until 27 days later, even though the “Ministerial Code” says that Ministers must correct

“any inadvertent error at the earliest opportunity.”

Why did it take so long?

Thirdly, after months of the Government being apparently incapable of doing an assessment of international humanitarian law, they have managed to undertake one during the recess in relation to the arms export tests, which state that a licence should not be granted

“if there is a clear risk... of a serious violation”

of IHL. The Foreign Secretary said in a written statement only this morning:

“Having regard to all the information available to us, we assess that this test has not been met.”

When is an assessment not an assessment? Will the Minister now tell us what detailed assessment preceded the conclusion that was reported to the House today and what information it drew upon? Will he publish both?

Finally, will the Government now suspend arms sales to Saudi Arabia until they are able to assure the House that they have done a proper assessment and can explain why they believe that international humanitarian law has not been breached in Yemen when the UN clearly says that it has?

[Mr Ellwood]

Let us take a step back and make it clear why Saudi Arabia is leading the coalition to support President Hadi. It is allowed to because of UN resolution 2216, of which the right hon. Gentleman is fully aware. Were it not for that, the atrocities that we see and the devastation that is taking place would be a lot worse. The Houthis would have pushed far down through Sana’a, the capital, and all the way to the port of Aden. It would be a humanitarian catastrophe.

Having said that, we absolutely need to make sure that our allies and partners are honouring international humanitarian law, which is why we have regularly raised these matters. I invite the right hon. Gentleman to join me when the Saudi Arabian Foreign Minister comes to this place on Wednesday to address any questions that are put by parliamentarians; it is at 10 o’clock and the right hon. Gentleman is more than welcome to come. I will make sure, because I will be moderating the event, that he is able to put some of these questions to the Foreign Minister.

On the general point, the right hon. Gentleman simply repeated the difference in the two lines, which I have endeavoured to correct. I have answered more than 90 parliamentary questions on this matter. We found out that two of them were incorrectly written, with a further trawl showing that four more were incorrectly written, and we immediately decided to correct the matter. I agree that the timing, first in replying to the various heads of the Committees, was slower than it should have been. If he knows me, he will know that I would not sit on this matter; the reason for this was simply that there was a change of government, and there were delays—I did not even know whether I was going to continue in this portfolio. As soon as I became aware of the situation, I made sure that the necessary information was out there and that we did a further trawl to make sure nothing else was erroneous. I then wrote to the relevant Committee Chairs and to the right hon. Gentleman.

[Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con)]

Will the Minister confirm that it is in our interest, and in their interest, that our regional allies in the Saudi-led coalition comply with international humanitarian law in their operations in Yemen? Will he remind the House that the Gulf Co-operation Council states are our allies and that the coalition is operating under the authority of a unanimously adopted UN resolution, in response to an illegal usurpation of power in Yemen?

[Mr Ellwood]

I am grateful for the question, which gives me licence to spell out the fact that this is new territory for Saudi Arabia. We have learnt to make sure that when errors are made on the battlefield and there is collateral damage, we put our hand up and say that something has happened that should not have happened; that is exactly what the Americans did in Kunduz, in Afghanistan, when the hospital was hit. We are dealing here with a conservative nation not used to such exposure, and I am pleased to say that we are making progress to make sure that it answers to the international scrutiny that it must answer to.

[Emily Thornberry (Islington South and Finsbury) (Lab)]

I echo strongly the concerns raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Leeds Central (Hilary Benn); the incorrect answers that he and other Members were given were totally unacceptable, as was the time in which they were corrected, which has added insult to injury. It is clear that the assurances this House was previously given on breaches of humanitarian law have proved inaccurate. Do other assurances that we have been given remain valid? In May, the then Minister for Defence Procurement, the hon. Member for Ludlow (Mr Dunne), told this House that there was “no evidence” that coalition forces in Yemen had used cluster munitions in civilian areas. Indeed, he claimed that the cluster munitions found in Yemen, which had been responsible for the deaths and maiming of many innocent civilians, had come from “previous conflicts” in the region. Does the Foreign Office stand by that assessment? In May, we also asked a question that that Minister repeatedly failed to answer, so I give today’s Minister an opportunity to answer it: have the coalition forces in Yemen used weapons or planes manufactured in Britain in this conflict? Have they used them to drop cluster munitions? Have they used them to commit breaches of international humanitarian law? If we simply do not know the answers to those questions, is it right to continue selling weapons and planes to Saudi Arabia until we have answers?

[Mr Ellwood]

The hon. Lady began by saying that it was unacceptable that these erroneous statements were put out, and I agree with her, which is why I wrote and took measures to make sure that the record was corrected. I make it very clear that the profile of interest in Yemen, with more than 90 written ministerial questions on the matter, is such that we had to correct the issue. Two errors were found, with a further four found on a trawl. That is why I wrote the necessary letters and produced the necessary statements to correct the matter, and I apologised to the Chamber. I hope that that apology is recognised; this was not some big plot or conspiracy to mislead. Our policy remains extremely clear on where we stand on our support for our friends in the Gulf.

The hon. Lady raises the sale of cluster munitions by Britain, which did happen before we signed the convention on cluster munitions—I think she is referring to the BL-755. I have seen one piece of evidence on that incident, and the bomb was unexploded; the bomblets themselves were in the case.

[Emily Thornberry]

So, that is okay then.

[Mr Ellwood]

I am not saying that it was okay at all. What I am saying is that as soon as we found out about it, we asked Saudi Arabia to do exactly what any other country should do in the same situation, which is to determine what is going on. As soon as we have more information, we will certainly share it with the House. I invite the hon. Lady to pose those questions to the Saudi Foreign Minister when he comes to the House on Wednesday.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

It is tragic when anyone who is innocent is killed in such a conflict. I visited the Saudi-led air operations centre some months ago in Riyadh. I specifically asked the pilots and the commanders about their rules on weapons release on targets in Yemen, and I was very reassured by their answers. It was clear that their procedures now seem to be as good as our own. Does the Minister agree with me?

[Mr Ellwood]

There is no doubt that this has been a learning curve for Saudi Arabia. The conference that I attended and represented Britain at last week in Jeddah moved us forward from conflict and a military approach to looking at what agreement can be made politically and militarily so that we can put the matter behind us and create the stability that we need in that country.

[Ms Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh (Ochil and South Perthshire) (SNP)]

The UK has a clear role in the conflict, and yet we are still no closer to learning why this Government have failed to carry out their own independent investigation into whether international humanitarian law was breached. Hospitals have been bombed and civilians have been killed. We must end arms sales to Saudi Arabia now and conduct our own investigation. Ministers must remove their heads from the sand and apologise to this House for attempting to brush the issue under the carpet. Parliament was misled six times. Rather than facing the music, did Ministers deliberately hide this knowledge from the House until the last day before the recess? This House and the public deserve more respect from this Government. A humanitarian disaster continues to unfold in front of our very eyes in the Yemen. We need answers and action today; nothing less will do. Will the Minister commit to ending arms sales to Saudi Arabia?

[Mr Ellwood]

I am sorry that the hon. Lady has adopted that tone. It is absolutely right that she holds the Government to account, and, in all fairness, she has been very consistent in doing that, but I have not been brushing any issues under the carpet—quite the contrary. I have been as open as I can be about these matters. I make it very clear to the House, as I said in my letter to the Chair of the Foreign Affairs Committee, that if we are not satisfied with the Saudi Arabian investigation, we will not oppose an independent investigation. First, though, we must honour international standards and allow Saudi Arabia to conduct its own investigations, as we would be doing in similar circumstances.

[Mrs Cheryl Gillan (Chesham and Amersham) (Con)]

Will the Minister confirm reports that the Prime Minister has raised concerns about the Yemen directly with Saudi Arabian leaders at the G20? Will he also say a bit more about what the Government are doing to try to get Saudi Arabia to sign up to the UN cluster munitions convention?

[Mr Ellwood]

I am very grateful to my right hon. Friend for her words. She is absolutely right that the G20 posed a huge opportunity for the Prime Minister to share thoughts and concerns about a number of matters pertaining to the middle east. I am not aware of what happened, but I will find out whether she was able to take up such an opportunity. I was certainly able to do so when I was with the Foreign Ministers from Saudi Arabia and the Emirates and John Kerry last week. As I have said, there is a further opportunity for this House to raise those questions too. My right hon. Friend also raised the issue of the cluster munitions convention. I have invited Saudi Arabia to consider signing it as an indication of where it wants to move to in the future.

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for coming to the House and correcting the record in respect of the errors that occurred. He will know that three Members of this House—the hon. Member for Portsmouth South (Mrs Drummond), my hon. Friend the Member for Walsall South (Valerie Vaz) and myself—were born in Yemen. Our fear is that Yemen is bleeding to death. There is a massive humanitarian crisis, the worst in the world. What is being done to get food in to the population of Yemen and to make sure that that happens as quickly as possible?

[Mr Ellwood]

I pay tribute to the right hon. Gentleman for the work that he has done. He obviously has a personal interest in the matter, as do others, and he has raised this subject on many occasions. I am pleased that he has raised the huge concern, which I think he House shares, about the humanitarian catastrophe that is unfolding in Yemen. For example, in July only 43% of the monthly food needs and only 23% of the fuel needs were met in that country. That is because there is no access or no complete access to the country. We need to see aid coming in not just through the port of Aden, but Hodeida further up the west coast opened up to provide access to the northern part of the country.

[Mrs Flick Drummond (Portsmouth South) (Con)]

Do the Government support the establishment of an international independent investigation following the human rights council, as we have done in other initiatives relating to conflicts in other countries, such as Sri Lanka?

[Mr Ellwood]

My hon. Friend raises a valid point. The process that we follow is to encourage any country to conduct its own investigation, as we would do. As I stated in answer to a previous question, if we find those investigations wanting, we will call for an independent investigation. As I said in my opening remarks, eight publications have already come forward, having analysed certain breaches or events that have taken place, and there will be further publications on other events in the near future.

[Gill Furniss (Sheffield, Brightside and Hillsborough) (Lab)]

Is it not a fact that the Saudi-led coalition to support the Yemen Government is clearly targeting civilian areas? Can the Minister remind us why we are supporting it?

[Mr Ellwood]

The conduct of war in Yemen is complicated. Much of the conflict is taking place in urban areas. The Houthis are using civilians as guards in order to deliberately take the battle into the towns and cities. It is very complicated indeed. We have encouraged Saudi Arabia and the coalition to make sure that as little collateral damage takes place as possible. The hon. Lady seems to suggest that if we did not support UN resolution 2216 and if we did not support President Hadi’s request for support, somehow Yemen would be in a better situation. I can tell her that quite the opposite would be the case.

[Nigel Huddleston (Mid Worcestershire) (Con)]

Does the Minister believe that al-Qaeda is active in Yemen and, if so, how active?

[Mr Ellwood]

I can confirm that. As this House is only too aware, where there is conflict and instability, it is very easy for extremism to flourish, and Yemen is a great example of that. Al-Qaeda in the Arabian Peninsula is one of the most active branches of al-Qaeda, responsible for the printer cartridge bombing and for the Charlie Hebdo attacks in Paris. As long as there is instability, it will continue to flourish. The port of Mukalla in the south—an entire city—was until recently run by al-Qaeda. That is why we need a political solution for that country.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

Just over a year ago my hon. Friend the Member for Liverpool, Riverside (Mrs Ellman) and I presented a petition to this House about the dire humanitarian crisis in Yemen. In the light of today’s statement, may I urge the Minister to revisit the issue of immediate relatives and dependants of British citizens who cannot get out of Yemen, many of whom are stuck in areas that do not have access to humanitarian aid workers and who are having to wait up to 12 months for a decision on their applications to come to Britain? May I urge him to work with his colleagues in the Home Office to speed up this process?

[Mr Ellwood]

The hon. Lady raises two important and related issues. The first is to do with the international humanitarian support for the country. This is something that my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for International Development will be raising at the UN General Assembly to see what more the international community can do. On the migrant situation and those being granted refugee status, I will raise that with my Home Office colleagues.

[Seema Kennedy (South Ribble) (Con)]

Given the recent upgrade in diplomatic relations between the UK and Iran, will Yemen be the subject of discussions between the two countries?

[Mr Ellwood]

My hon. Friend raises a very important point—the responsible role that Iran can and should take given where it is now in relation to the nuclear deal. If it wants to play a helpful role on the international stage in the region, then it needs to check its proxy influence in places such as Bahrain, Yemen and Damascus, and indeed in Baghdad as well.

[Margaret Ferrier (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (SNP)]

Only last month, Oxfam claimed that the UK Government had switched from being an enthusiastic backer of the arms trade treaty to one of the most significant violators. The Government have lost immense credibility over this saga, and that was not helped by last-minute retractions. Do they not accept that if they echoed calls for an international independent inquiry, the added transparency and accountability would be a benefit to all stakeholders involved?

[Mr Ellwood]

I do not agree with the first part of the hon. Lady’s question, as she might guess, but the second part I do agree with. The process that we must follow is to allow and encourage Saudi Arabia to make sure that it does the necessary investigations, as it is now starting to do. If we find that those investigations are wanting, it is absolutely right that we should then call for an independent international investigation to be carried out.

[Mark Pritchard (The Wrekin) (Con)]

Of course Iran has equal responsibility under international humanitarian law, as well as Saudi Arabia. The Minister, as the surviving Minister in the Foreign Office, will know that several months ago, when it was revealed that the UK was supplying weapons to Saudi Arabia for the Yemen campaign, the justification for the Government’s position was that those weapons were accurate and needed by Saudi Arabia, and that the technical targeting assistance was being provided by the British to make sure that those accurate weapons were even more accurate. Given that that is the case, why have so many weapons gone astray?

[Mr Ellwood]

We have a very robust relationship with Saudi Arabia. We are able to raise matters in confidence and in private that we would not be able to raise in public, and that applies to many of the issues that have been raised today. However, this is a legitimate coalition, and it is allowed to use weapons that are provided and sold by the United Kingdom.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

One of the accusations against the Saudis is that UK-made cluster munitions have been used in Yemen. The former procurement Minister, the hon. Member for Ludlow (Mr Dunne), told the House before the recess that the last time the UK sold cluster munitions was 30 years ago. What assessment has the Minister or the MOD made of the usability of those weapons and whether they have ever actually been used?

[Mr Ellwood]

I recognise the interest and also the expertise that the hon. Gentleman brings to the House given his work as a Minister in the MOD. As a reservist and an ex-member of the regular forces, I would not go anywhere near any ordnance that was over 20 years old. The cluster munitions that are being discussed are well past their sell-by date. They are dangerous and should not be used by anybody.

[Tom Tugendhat (Tonbridge and Malling) (Con)]

I welcome the efforts that my hon. Friend’s Department has made in helping the Saudis with their application of international humanitarian law in the Yemeni armed conflict. Has he used any of our wonderful British imams who have served in the armed forces of the United Kingdom, many of whom have studied the sayings of Abu Bakr, the first caliph of Islam, who set out many of the rules of war that would apply very well in these circumstances, to remind the Saudis that these are not western concepts at all but actually Islamic themes?

[Mr Ellwood]

My hon. Friend touches on quite a deep issue that reflects his knowledge and expertise in this area, to which I pay tribute. I spent some of the summer reading the works of Gertrude Bell, which I know he has studied. She illustrates, and learned over a long period, the complexity that we are dealing with in today’s Saudi Arabia. We have to understand and recognise that it is a conservative society which is being obliged and encouraged to move at a far faster pace than many other countries in the world, not least in the legitimacy of running a complex and sustained campaign of war.

[Tom Brake (Carshalton and Wallington) (LD)]

The key test for the UK Government’s continued arms exports to Saudi Arabia in relation to international humanitarian law is whether there is a clear risk that those weapons might be used in the commission of a serious violation of that law. If the Government do not consider the repeated bombing of hospitals, schools and markets, and the designation of whole cities such as Ma’aran as war zones, a serious violation of humanitarian law, what does fall into that category?

[Mr Ellwood]

The right hon. Gentleman raises a number of events that have taken place and are being looked into by Saudi Arabia, but there is also a comparison with what happened with the United States, when a hospital was also attacked. The question is whether any nation puts its hand up and says that a mistake has been made or whether it tries to cover things up and say that they did not happen, which would be a breach of international humanitarian law.

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

These were not minor corrections issued on 21 July; frankly, the Government are now saying the complete opposite of what they said before. I am reminded of Ron Ziegler, President Nixon’s former press secretary, who said that all previous statements were inoperative. It is not just that the Government said that there was no evidence that IHL had been breached and are now saying that they are unable to assess whether there have been breaches. They also said that the MOD was of the opinion that the Saudis were not targeting civilians; now they say that the MOD has not assessed whether the Saudis are targeting civilians. This is a deeply serious matter. The Government must take action and we now want answers to these questions. Are the Saudis actually targeting civilians, yes or no? The Minister must come back to the House and give answers on these serious matters.

[Mr Ellwood]

My hon. Friend makes his point, but I will just say that each case is considered in its own right. Each arms export is considered under the ruthless criteria under which we operate. We look to the future, to the intent of that country and at how those weapon systems will be used. As things stand, we do not believe that they will be used in breach of IHL.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

It is rare that I agree with the hon. Member for Gainsborough (Sir Edward Leigh), but communications from Ministers and the Government on this issue have been positively Kafkaesque to say the least. The lack of clarity in the information given in answers and to Committees of this House is not acceptable. Let us get back to the facts, Mr Speaker. Saudi Arabia admitted on 4 August that it had mistakenly bombed a residential complex, a World Food Programme convoy and medical facilities, never mind the other examples that have been raised by non-governmental organisations and other humanitarian organisations. Is the Minister satisfied with that? If he is not, will he suspend those arms sales?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Ellwood]

Thousands of sorties have been made not just by Saudi Arabia but by the entire coalition. Errors have been made as well. I do not agree with the hon. Gentleman’s opening statement, which implied that I have either misled or not been up front about what is going on. I have been very clear indeed. If he wants to talk about the specific issues that he has raised today, I am more than happy to meet him outside the Chamber and we can look into them. I have encouraged Saudi Arabia to look into every one of those cases and provide a report.

[Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)]

The Minister will be aware that sometimes with situations in the middle east we must be careful what we wish for because of what might come in its place. Does he agree that Saudi Arabia could do a lot to reinforce people’s confidence in its operations by joining the international ban on cluster munitions, to which we are already party?

[Mr Ellwood]

That is absolutely right. I know that there is an intention among the establishment in Saudi Arabia to move forward in that regard, but as I have touched on in the past, this is a conservative society led by a liberal wing of that society. It needs to move at a pace that is workable for Saudi Arabia, and a major step forward would be the consideration of signing the cluster weapons convention.

[Alison Thewliss (Glasgow Central) (SNP)]

It is clear that the situation in Yemen is not improving and respected organisations are calling for independent investigation of violations of international humanitarian law, yet in the second quarter of 2016 this Government, and the Minister’s colleagues in the Home Office, refused 13 asylum applications, and 57 applications from Yemeni citizens remain pending. Will the Minister speak with his colleagues in the Home Office and impress on them the need for certainty for those Yemeni citizens that they will not be removed to a country that is a war zone because of bombs that we are selling to the Saudis?

[Mr Ellwood]

Just to clarify, am I right in thinking that the hon. Lady expects Yemenis based in the UK to be returned to Yemen?

[Alison Thewliss]

The 13 refusals.

[Mr Ellwood]

I will raise that. This question has already been raised by a Labour Member and I will look at it again, but my understanding is that nobody is being returned to a war zone.

[Mr Speaker]

I would just make the point that it is not uncommon for the same point to be raised more than once in the course of an interrogation of a Minister, a fact with which I am sure the hon. Gentleman is intensely familiar.

[Mike Wood (Dudley South) (Con)]

Will the Minister reassure the House that the conflict in Yemen and accusations of breaches of international humanitarian law are taken into consideration when looking at extending arms exports?

[Mr Ellwood]

The answer to that is yes—that is absolutely the case. We have now moved forward in our discussions. The Houthis, after walking out of the discussions in Kuwait, are now working with the UN envoy, and I hope that we will be able to move forward from the phase of war and armed conflict to one of political resolution.

[Thangam Debbonaire (Bristol West) (Lab)]

Will the Minister please tell the House, very simply, whether any weapons or planes manufactured in the United Kingdom have been used in the conflict in Yemen and, in particular, whether they have been used against civilians?

[Mr Ellwood]

I cannot answer the latter part of that question but I can say that, yes, we have sold weapons and aircraft systems to Saudi Arabia and other members of the coalition which have been used legitimately, following a request by President Hadi under resolution 2216.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

Will the Minister confirm that Britain’s international aid commitment to Yemen more than doubled this year to £85 million, making us the fourth largest donor in the world? What steps has he taken to ensure further unhindered access of that humanitarian aid to the places that need it most?

[Mr Ellwood]

I can confirm that we are the fourth largest donor. My hon. Friend is right to say that the figure is £85 million and, looking at my Department for International Development colleagues, I hope we will be able to increase it. I know that every effort will be made at the UN General Assembly in the coming weeks to rally other countries to provide more financial support and to make sure that it reaches those people who genuinely require it.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab)]

Will the Minister outline what procedures are in place for the sharing of United Kingdom intelligence with Gulf states? What assurances can he give the House that none of that intelligence is being used to support the airstrikes in Yemen?

[Mr Ellwood]

I cannot comment, for the obvious reason that we do not discuss intelligence matters at the Dispatch Box.

[Mr Nigel Evans (Ribble Valley) (Con)]

Will the Minister confirm that what he is saying is that he has no evidence whatsoever that Saudi Arabia has been involved in any human rights violations? If there were such evidence, would he suspend arms sales to Saudi Arabia?

[Mr Ellwood]

It is not in my gift to make that judgment—the Foreign Office can only make recommendations—but my hon. Friend is absolutely right to say that, if we were to find breaches of international humanitarian law, that would change our view of whether future arms exports should take place.

[Douglas Chapman (Dunfermline and West Fife) (SNP)]

The Saudi Government have been trusted with the oversight of weapons licensed by the UK Government and used in Yemen, with disastrous consequences. Does the Minister consider that to be misjudgment? Should not oversight be more independent, and should not an independent inquiry begin now, without delay?

[Mr Ellwood]

I think that Saudi Arabia has been slow in acknowledging international scrutiny of the various weapons systems that have been used in the conflict itself. Having said that, we are seeing an advancement in its processes, and it is those processes that we must now lean on to make sure that Saudi Arabia puts its hand up if there is a mistake and any collateral damage.

[Nick Thomas-Symonds (Torfaen) (Lab)]

The Minister has said that the Government are unable to draw conclusions about individual allegations of human rights breaches, but will he comment on how the overall risk assessment has changed in the light of the reported breaches, and how worried is he that weapons manufactured here in the UK have been involved?

[Mr Ellwood]

We look to the future to see the intent of the country and how the weapons might be used, and whether there is transparency on misuse and collateral damage. That is why we lean on the Saudi Arabians and encourage them to produce the necessary reports that provide the light for which the NGOs, we and, indeed, other members of the international community are looking.

[Brendan O'Hara (Argyll and Bute) (SNP)]

In answer to my question on 2 February regarding violations of international humanitarian law, the Minister said that the Government were aware of such reports and that they would

“continue to monitor the situation closely”.

In the intervening seven months, what further information has been gleaned by the Government? Exactly what has to happen in Yemen before this Government recognise a breach of international humanitarian law and stop arming Saudi Arabia?

[Mr Ellwood]

I am not familiar with the exact reports that the hon. Gentleman is referring to, but I would be happy to speak to him in more detail. If he is referring to the report by the UN committee of experts, in which I think more than 100 allegations were made, that UN team did not actually set foot in Yemen when they compiled that evidence. Having said that, we passed that on to the Saudi Arabians for them to comment on what had happened.

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

The Minister has said that Saudi Arabia, in the first instance, should be allowed to investigate any breaches of international humanitarian law, but with both the Saudi joint incidents assessment team and the Yemeni national commission of inquiry failing to carry out proper investigations, does he not think that it is time to press for a full independent investigation into what has gone on?

[Mr Ellwood]

Those two organisations do slightly separate work. What we expect from the Saudi Arabians—they acknowledge that they have been slow to put the processes in place—is that they investigate any alleged violations and provide a full report. The Yemeni investigation team is looking at human rights violations on the ground that have been conducted under the fog of war—the use of child soldiers, for example—which is quite a separate matter.

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

Why did we have to wait until the very last day before the recess for the corrections to the parliamentary record to be produced? Why could that not have happened the day before, so that the Minister could have taken oral questions the next day? We have had to wait all summer long, and we have finally had a question session but we still have no answers. I would have thought that the Government had had time enough to be able to answer some of the questions raised by hon. Members today.

[Mr Ellwood]

There were answers. As soon as I found out about the matter, I wrote to the necessary Committee Chairs. If there had been an opportunity before we broke up for the recess, I certainly would have taken it. If it is any consolation, I apologise to the House for not coming to this place earlier to put that on the record. I make that very clear indeed.

Parliamentary Questions and Westminster Hall Debates: Corrections

Tobias Ellwood Excerpts

Thursday 21st July 2016 Written Statements

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

The Foreign and Commonwealth Office (FCO) has recently reviewed all correspondence and parliamentary proceedings on the subject of allegations of breaches of international humanitarian law (IHL) in Yemen by the Saudi-led coalition. During this exercise it became clear that the drafting of answers to four written questions and two responses given in debates relating to allegations of breaches of IHL did not fully reflect HMG’s policy as set out in numerous other written questions and debates on this topic. I would like to clarify these.

The responses given on 12 February to Question 24770 (http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2016-01-28/24770) and on 15 February to Questions 24769 (http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2016-01-28/24769) and 24771 (http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2016-01-28/24771) stated “we have assessed that there has not been a breach of IHL by the coalition”. However, these should have stated, as in previous PQs such as 27085 answered on 24 February, “we have not assessed that there has been a breach of IHL by the coalition”.

The response given on 4 January to Question 15523 (http://www.parliament.uk/business/publications/written-questions-answers-statements/written-question/Commons/2015-11 -09/15523) stated “I regularly review the situation with my own advisers and have discussed it on numerous occasions with my Saudi counterpart. Our judgement is that there is no evidence that IHL has been breached, but we shall continue to review the situation regularly”. However, this should have stated “I regularly review the situation with my own advisers and have discussed it on numerous occasions with my Saudi counterpart. Looking at all the information available to us, we have been unable to assess that there has been a breach of IHL by the Saudi-led coalition. The situation is kept under careful and continual review”.

During the Westminster Hall debate on Human Rights and Arms Sales to Saudi Arabia on 8 June (HC Deb, col WH138), the former Minister of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs, my right hon. Friend the Member for Aylesbury (Mr Lidington) said, “In respect of the allegations about breaches of international humanitarian law, the Ministry of Defence makes assessments of how the Saudis are acting and whether the coalition is observing international human rights obligations. The MOD assessment is that the Saudi-led coalition is not targeting civilians that Saudi processes and procedures have been put in place to ensure respect for the principles of international humanitarian law; and that the Saudis both have been and continue to be genuinely committed to compliance with international humanitarian law.” This should have said, “In respect of the allegations about breaches of international humanitarian law, the Ministry of Defence (MOD) analyses how the Saudis are acting and whether the coalition is observing international humanitarian law. The MOD has not assessed that the Saudi-led coalition is targeting civilians. We have assessed that Saudi processes and procedures have been put in place to ensure respect for the principles of international humanitarian law; and that the Saudis both have been and continue to be genuinely committed to compliance with international humanitarian law.”

During the Westminster Hall debate on War in Yemen: First Anniversary from 22 March (HC Deb, col WH518), I stated that, “we make it clear that we are doing our own assessments to understand whether the equipment we sell has any participation in that and indeed whether the breaches are by the Houthis or the Saudi Arabians.” This should have stated “we make it clear that we are doing our own analysis. We encourage the Saudis to conduct their own investigations to understand whether the equipment we sell has any participation in that and indeed whether the breaches are by the Houthis or the Saudi Arabians.”

These corrections ensure the answers given in all written questions and debates now accurately reflect HMG policy in this area and consistent with other statements and questions answered.

The MOD monitors incidents of alleged IHL violations using available information. This is used to form an overall view on the approach and attitude of Saudi Arabia to IHL. This, in turn, informs the risk assessment made under the consolidated criteria (i.e. whether there is a clear risk that it might be used in the commission of a serious violation of IHL). We are not acting to determine whether a sovereign state has or has not acted in breach of IHL, but instead—as Criterion 2(c) requires—we are acting to make an overall judgement.

It is important to make clear that neither the MOD nor the FCO reaches a conclusion as to whether or not an IHL violation has taken place in relation to each and every incident of potential concern that comes to its attention. This would simply not be possible in conflicts to which the UK is not a party, as is the case in Yemen.

We regularly encourage Saudi Arabia to investigate any allegations of breaches of IHL which are attributed to them; and for their investigations to be thorough and conclusive. Saudi Arabia has publicly stated that it is investigating reports of alleged violations, and that any lessons learned will be acted upon. We continue to believe that they have the best insight into their own military procedures, allowing them to understand what went wrong and apply the lessons learnt in the best possible way, if required. This is the standard we set ourselves and our allies. For example, when allegations have been made against us in Afghanistan and Iraq we have investigated these claims ourselves. We did not expect other states to do this and form judgements on our behalf.

[HCWS125]

Oral Answers to Questions

Tobias Ellwood Excerpts

Tuesday 12th July 2016 Commons Chamber

[Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield) (Lab)]

1. What assessment he has made of trends in the number of demolitions by Israel of Palestinian homes and other structures in the west bank in 2016.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

Before answering this question, may I take this opportunity to say that, two weeks ago, I had the difficult task of responding to the written Foreign Office question submitted by our former colleague, Jo Cox? Given her active role in foreign affairs, I completed this task because I believe it is what she would have wanted. Given the frequency and the passion with which she spoke and indeed influenced policy in this very forum at Foreign Office questions, I thought it appropriate to begin by paying tribute to her.

[Hon. Members]

Hear, hear.

[Mr Speaker]

I am extremely grateful to the Minister for what he said, which is warmly welcomed in the House. More than anyone in this House, the hon. Gentleman knows of what he speaks, and I thank him.

[Mr Ellwood]

Thank you, Mr Speaker.

We are deeply concerned by the continued demolition of Palestinian property by Israeli authorities, and the worrying spike in the rate of demolitions this year. In all but the most exceptional circumstances, demolitions are contrary to international humanitarian law. We regularly raise our concerns about demolitions with the Israeli Government. We make it clear that such actions do not encourage the confidence-building measures needed for talks to recommence.

[Richard Burden]

I associate myself with the Minister’s words about our former colleague and friend, Jo Cox. She was an exceptional Member of Parliament and an exceptional person as well. Perhaps the greatest tribute any of us can give to Jo is to continue her work to support human rights throughout the world.

One of the things Jo was passionate about was justice for the Palestinians. According to the UN, Israel has demolished 649 Palestinian structures this year, and 1,000 people—over 400 of them children—have been displaced. The situation is getting worse, not better. I know that the Minister condemns these things, but if Israel feels it can continue with a culture of impunity, why should it stop? What can the international community do to show Israel that it does not have impunity, and what specific actions would the UK Government support?

[Mr Ellwood]

Thank you very much for those initial comments. We agree and we are hugely concerned about the rate of demolitions. We need to place additional pressure on Israel and, indeed, the Palestinians to come to the table. I am pleased that we held a summit in Paris to discuss the overarching challenges that we face and the role that the international community can play. The extent of the demolitions was highlighted in the Quartet report, produced by Russia, the US, the EU and the UN, which underlines the very concerns that the hon. Gentleman has outlined.

[Sir Eric Pickles (Brentwood and Ongar) (Con)]

I, too, would like to associate myself with the Minister’s moving words about our late colleague, Jo Cox. As for the general point, my hon. Friend is quite right when he says that this will not help in moving towards a position in which people come together to talk. There is, however, the other side of the coin, with 36 Israelis, along with four foreign nationals, murdered this year. Instead of condemning the murders, the Palestinian Authority glorified them. Surely, when just this weekend the Israeli Prime Minister said that he would meet without conditions, we should urge the Palestinian authorities to do precisely that and have direct talks.

[Mr Ellwood]

My right hon. Friend raises a very important issue. We regularly raise and discuss these matters at Foreign Office questions. Now that we have had the Paris summit and seen a meeting between Prime Minister Netanyahu and Egyptian Foreign Minister Shoukry, we can see this issue coming back on to the agenda. My concern—I raised it at the Paris summit—is that with all the other distractions and concerns in the middle east, we have lost sight of something that needs to be resolved. My right hon. Friend makes the important point that the actions of the Palestinians do not go unnoticed, and we require the leadership of President Abbas to make it clear that those actions must be condemned.

[Sarah Champion (Rotherham) (Lab)]

As well as demolishing Palestinian homes on the West Bank, Israel continues to arrest and detain Palestinian children in Israel and the occupied Palestinian territories. G4S, which has provided services for Israeli military checkpoints and prisons, has been found by the UK national contact point for the OECD guidelines to be in breach of its fundamental human rights obligations. Will the Minister join me in calling for G4S to withdraw fully from its relevant contracts with the Israeli state agencies?

[Mr Ellwood]

I will certainly look into the case that the hon. Lady raises. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary is concerned about the treatment of Palestinian children detained in Israeli prisons and has raised it with the United States Secretary of State, John Kerry, and I raised it during my recent visit to Israel. We have done some work—and, indeed, have invested some funds—to ensure that the children are looked after in the best possible way.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

The demolition of Arab houses, and of Jewish houses, was started by us, the British, between the wars, during the operation of the terms of the British mandate for Palestine. Today, the Israeli Government specifically cites British mandate law as a justification for the current demolitions. Has the Minister had conversations with his Israeli counterpart about the legitimacy of using that law today?

[Mr Ellwood]

Given our legacy and the breadth of our influence over the last couple of hundred years, I think it wrong for any Government in the world to point to British policy and say that, historically, it is the cause. All laws can be updated, and both sides have a responsibility to come together and resolve this matter for the long term.

[Mhairi Black (Paisley and Renfrewshire South) (SNP)]

2. What guidance he issues to British embassies on whether they are obliged to respond to inquiries from British companies seeking assistance to understand the laws and regulations relating to their business dealings with the country in which the embassy is based.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

Our embassies and high commissions play a key role in promoting British interests and helping British companies to enter new markets. The Prime Minister, the Foreign Secretary and I have led delegations of businesses overseas, and we work closely with UKTI to ensure that our businesses receive continued support and advice.

[Mhairi Black]

One of my constituents has written to a certain embassy many times, and, although it acknowledges his correspondence, he has never received any further response, which is preventing him from fulfilling an important part of a significant business deal. Could the Minister provide any assistance by obtaining a full response from the embassy on behalf of my constituent, so that he can be given more information?

[Mr Ellwood]

I was aware of that case, and I am grateful to the hon. Lady for raising it. If any other Members are concerned about a lack of support from embassies for businesses in their constituencies, will they please let us know?

I understand that the head of UKTI in Morocco, with which the company concerned wishes to trade, has been speaking to the company directly. I can only apologise for the delay in providing the normal level of support that we would expect to give any company wishing to do business in Morocco or, indeed, anywhere else.

[Geoffrey Clifton-Brown (The Cotswolds) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend agree that not enough small and medium-sized businesses export around the world, and that, because our balance of trade is widening, we must constantly review our trade policy? In particular, does he agree that British embassies around the world could help with digital linking between consumers around the world and potential exporting companies in this country?

[Mr Ellwood]

My hon. Friend raises an extremely important point, which covers a specific interest that we can espouse. The Foreign Secretary had an opportunity to brief ambassadors and high commissioners when they returned to the UK last week. Given the new environment in which we find ourselves, the role that embassies and high commissions can play throughout the world in establishing new markets and exploring new opportunities—as well as revisiting old ones—is now critical.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

3. Whether his Department plans to recruit more trade specialists as a result of the outcome of the EU referendum.

--- Later in debate ---

[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

12. What steps the Government are taking to support the French initiative to start peace talks between Israel and Palestine.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

As I mentioned earlier, I attended the French ministerial conference on the middle east peace process in Paris on 3 June. We are in close contact with the French Government and will consider how the UK might contribute as their plans develop.

[Andy Slaughter]

It is a pity that the Foreign Secretary could not attend that conference. Will he be attending or advising his successor to attend the main conference later this year, and will he join France and other European countries in recognising Palestine if Israel refuses to co-operate with the French initiative and continues building settlements?

[Mr Ellwood]

To make it clear, the summit was moved at short notice to accommodate the US Secretary of State. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary was in Africa at the time, which was why I was able to attend. I hope the hon. Gentleman does not feel short-changed by the fact that I was there instead of the Foreign Secretary. It was an important meeting, as it registered the need for the international community to play its part and we look forward to moving ahead with the process. Discussions will take place in the next few months to bring the parties together.

[Ms Ritchie]

In the light of recent moves by the Egyptian Foreign Minister, does the Minister believe that the chances for successful peace talks are improving? What efforts will the Government make to ensure that both Israel and Palestine are sufficiently incentivised to come to the table to talks?

[Mr Ellwood]

The hon. Lady is right to say that both parties need to be sufficiently incentivised. The worry that I have had when visiting both the Palestinian areas and Israel is that the leaders on both sides are not necessarily speaking for the people, who generally want something different. My concern is that unless we see the affirmative steps taking place to reverse the trends that we have been seeing, we will drift towards an entrenched position of a one-state reality, with perpetual occupation and conflict.

[Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

23. Will the Minister assure us that the Foreign Secretary or his successor will attend the peace conference that the French are planning later this year?

[Mr Ellwood]

On the day before a reshuffle is to take place, let me say that I will heed the right hon. Gentleman’s comments and we will do our best. The implication seems to be that the Foreign Secretary is somehow not engaged in these matters. We have those set conferences and summits, but an awful lot of bilaterals also take place, not least at the NATO summit in Warsaw, where my right hon. Friend had bilateral meetings with his relevant counterparts. These very important issues are raised there as well.

[Michael Tomlinson (Mid Dorset and North Poole) (Con)]

9. What discussions he has had with his counterparts in the EU, Africa and the middle east on dealing with the refugee crisis in Europe and the middle east.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stephen Gethins (North East Fife) (SNP)]

T4. Given the upsurge in violence in South Sudan over the weekend, what action have Ministers taken on the situation there?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

The hon. Gentleman is right to raise concerns about the growing conflict in South Sudan. The outbreak of fighting around Juba is very serious indeed. I attended a signing bringing the two sides together in South Sudan over a year ago, and there was a huge amount of optimism at that point. Unfortunately, that has dissipated, and there are now 2.4 million displaced people there. We are watching events very closely, and we urge the sides to come together to begin peace talks again.

[Stuart Andrew (Pudsey) (Con)]

T3. After five decades of armed conflict in Colombia, where some 200,000 people have lost their lives and many millions have been displaced, a historic ceasefire has been agreed between the Colombian Government and FARC. Will my right hon. Friend update the House on the peace process and Britain’s role within it?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mark Durkan (Foyle) (SDLP)]

In the light of the ongoing dreadful events in Sudan, many of us find questionable the context and the content of the UK-Sudan strategic dialogue. What red lines do the UK Government have in that dialogue?

[Mr Ellwood]

If I may, I will ask the hon. Member for Rochford and Southend East (James Duddridge), the Minister with responsibility for Africa, to write to the hon. Member with more detail. However, I can say that the dialogue is an important juncture in our relationship, and we were invited by Sudan to commence it. Let me make it very clear that we need to continue to support Sudan. It is a source, host and transit country for migration. What is going on there affects the rest of Europe, and so we want to continue to help with the dire humanitarian situation there. The 2.5 million people long-term displaced people need our support.

[James Berry (Kingston and Surbiton) (Con)]

May I join those who are welcoming the fact that a large number of big players in the global economy are queuing up to do bilateral trade deals with the UK? My many Korean constituents would very much like to know whether that includes South Korea, which is a brilliant trade partner with the UK.

--- Later in debate ---

[Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. We recently marked the first anniversary of the dreadful terrorist massacre at Sousse in Tunisia. Can the Minister update me on the work that is being done by the Foreign Office to support the families of the victims and to mark that dreadful event?

[Mr Ellwood]

I had the honour of representing Britain at the ceremony that took place in Sousse to mark the anniversary of the tragic events there. We have done everything we can, from a Government perspective, working across Government to provide support to those who are bereaved, those who were seriously injured and those who have been affected by the mental trauma of what they saw. That help continues, and I am pleased to confirm the announcement that the Prime Minister made at the weekend that a memorial will be built—it is expected to be in the north of England—to mark the horrific events and to give the families a solemn location at which they can pay their respects.

[Helen Jones (Warrington North) (Lab)]

Can the Foreign Secretary tell the House what progress has been made in persuading our allies to provide support for Yazidi women who have escaped from sexual slavery under Daesh and who are now in great need of medical and psychological support, which they cannot access properly in either Syria or Iraq?

[Mr Ellwood]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right to draw attention to those who are fleeing persecution by Daesh. We have had a number of debates on the matter, and it is not just the Yazidis; it is Christians and other minorities as well. We are using our Department for International Development funds to support the non-governmental organisations that directly target those people to provide that support in the immediate aftermath, but also in the long term.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Fiona Mactaggart (Slough) (Lab)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. The reason I was steamy is that I spoke this morning to my constituent whose husband, Nawaz Khan, has been detained in South Sudan since 18 June without charge. It seems to me that in view of the situation and the turmoil there, it is urgent that the British authorities demand his release or charge instantly. This man is a diabetic, and he is not being properly looked after. It is time we defended our citizen.

[Mr Ellwood]

The right hon. Lady is absolutely right to raise this matter. We have already touched on the concerns that we have about South Sudan and the instability that we are seeing there, despite the transitional Government of national unity. The right hon. Lady has raised an important consular case, and I will ask the Minister with responsibility for Africa to get in touch with her to find out what consular support is being provided.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

--- Later in debate ---

[Joanna Cherry (Edinburgh South West) (SNP)]

Can the Minister tell the House whether following Brexit the United Kingdom will continue to participate in the Paris climate change agreement, or whether that agreement will need to be rewritten?

[Mr Ellwood]

This is a prime example of where we need to calm down and not scaremonger. We are absolutely committed to COP 22 on climate change, and to the target of reducing our emissions by 2050.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

[Hannah Bardell (Livingston) (SNP)]

I am grateful, Mr Speaker. The Minister will recall the case of my constituent, Deborah Pearson, and her niece Julie Pearson who was killed in Israel last year. Her family are constituents of my hon. Friend the Member for Ochil and South Perthshire (Ms Ahmed-Sheikh). We now have the autopsy report, but it is in Hebrew and it has been suggested that the FCO might assume the cost of translating it. Will the FCO support that? I am grateful for the Minister’s support so far, but the family are desperate and need more support. Will he consider further help?

[Mr Ellwood]

This has been a difficult case for the family and for everybody involved. I have met a number of hon. Members who have been involved, and I also raised the issue with the Israeli authorities. It is not normal for the Foreign Office to provide translation facilities. Perhaps we could discuss the matter outside the Chamber and work to provide assistance to the family.

[Several hon. Members rose—]

Foreign and Commonwealth Office

Tobias Ellwood Excerpts

Monday 11th July 2016 Ministerial Corrections

The following is an extract from the Adjournment debate on 29 June 2016.

[Mr Ellwood]

The Government are certainly co-operating fully with the Intelligence and Security Committee’s inquiry. The ISC has confirmed to the Government that it has received all but one of the relevant documents to date, but if it requires any further documents, it only needs to let the Government know.

[Official Report, 29 June 2016, Vol. 612, c. 443.]

Letter of correction from Mr Ellwood:

An error has been identified in the response given to the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) during the Adjournment debate on UK involvement in rendition.

The correct response should have been:

[Mr Ellwood]

The Government are certainly co-operating fully with the Intelligence and Security Committee’s inquiry. The ISC has confirmed to the Government that it has received all the relevant documents to date, but if it requires any further documents, it only needs to let the Government know.

UK Involvement in Rendition

Tobias Ellwood Excerpts

Wednesday 29th June 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

I welcome this important debate and congratulate the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) on securing it. He raises a number of serious issues about a matter in which I have a personal interest. As he is aware, I lost my brother in the Bali bombing and I understood that some of those involved in its planning were moved across the world in different formations, so I took an interest in this as a Back Bencher and continue to do so as a Minister.

Before going into the details of the subject, I will step back and look at what has caused a lot of questions to be raised about the style in which we deal with terrorism post-9/11. I am on record as saying that I believe the international community lost its way somewhat after 9/11. We were dealing with a new form of terrorism and extremism that we did not fully comprehend. I think that, in the desire to be seen to be doing something, the international community right across the piece ended up creating a new forum of justice that was not at all just by placing terrorists into parts of the world such as Guantanamo Bay where they could not receive the law of the land because it was not clear what the law of the land was, given the very land they were taken to. It is important that we learn the lessons of the past and ask why it was not correct that we should use procedures that had been in place over many years. Why did we feel the need to create something new about which we now look back on and say, “Actually, we did lose our way somewhat”?

I am therefore pleased that this debate has come forward. There are still questions being put. I will do my best to answer them, but the right hon. Gentleman will be aware that because a case is ongoing, I am limited in what I can say.

[Mr Keith Simpson]

I rise briefly to caution Members. This is the subject of a major ongoing investigation by the Intelligence and Security Committee, which is determined to find out who knew what and when. We have to be very careful about talking about “we” or any allegations that are made. Our Committee is following this through, with no fear or favour to anybody. The report will be published and then it will be very properly debated and questioned by the House.

[Mr Ellwood]

I have not gone into any detail, but my right hon. Friend makes a point that I shall develop later. The Committee has yet to produce its report and, until that happens, it would be wrong of the Government to comment. We will, of course, respond in full once the report has been published.

I want to outline Her Majesty’s Government’s position on rendition. The Government support the rule of law, and as the Prime Minister said today in response to a question from the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland, we oppose any form of deprivation of liberty that amounts to placing a detained person outside the protection of the law, including so-called extraordinary rendition. We also recognise that we face a serious, complex and diffuse threat from terrorism, and we should not forget that. The Government have a duty to protect British citizens from that threat, both at home and abroad. Our policy remains that individuals suspected of involvement in terrorism should be brought to justice whenever possible.

We should not make the mistake of thinking that all rendition is necessarily unlawful. The right hon. Gentleman described the word, but it has perhaps been taken out of context on occasion. Rendition may, in certain circumstances, be acceptable. For example, we would support the transfer of an individual to safety, from a place where there was no apparent legal framework, or if there was some other legal basis for the transfer, such as a United Nations Security Council resolution.

The Government remain committed to ensuring that allegations of UK complicity in alleged unlawful rendition and mistreatment overseas are examined fully. In July 2010, the Prime Minister announced an inquiry, led by Sir Peter Gibson, to consider whether the UK was implicated in the improper treatment or rendition of detainees held by other countries. The inquiry undertook extensive preparatory work. However, following the launch of a new police investigation, the Government closed down the inquiry in January 2012 as there was no prospect of it being able to start in the foreseeable future.

Rather than wait for the police to complete their investigations, the Government agreed with the Intelligence and Security Committee of this Parliament in December 2013 that that Committee would carry out its own inquiry. My right hon. Friend the Member for Broadland (Mr Simpson) has referred to that inquiry. It was decided that the Committee would consider the themes and issues that Sir Peter had raised in his preparatory work, take further evidence and report to the Government and to Parliament on the outcome. I hope my right hon. Friend will agree that the Government are co-operating fully with the Committee’s inquiry. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary gave evidence to the Committee on 9 June. The Home Secretary and the agency heads have also given evidence.

I do not want to pre-judge the findings of the Intelligence and Security Committee—my right hon. Friend the Member for Broadland (Mr Simpson) has already pointed out the importance of avoiding that. Once the Committee has published its report and the outcome of the police investigations is known, the Government will be able to take a final view on whether it is in the interests of the country or of future policy making to hold another judge-led inquiry. I hope that answers the call of the right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland.

I turn now to the specific cases of Mr al-Saadi and Mr Belhaj. The Government have co-operated fully with the police investigation into the cases of those two individuals, and we acknowledge the decision of the Crown Prosecution Service not to bring charges. The CPS has stated clearly the reasons for the conclusions that it has reached. It would be inappropriate for me to comment further, as separate civil proceedings are now under way, as the right hon. Gentleman knows. He looks poised to intervene, and I am happy to give way to him.

[Mr Alistair Carmichael]

The civil proceedings relate to only one of the families. The al-Saadi family has already settled, as I indicated in my speech. I appreciate that this matter falls more within the ambit of the Attorney General’s Department than the Minister’s, but does he accept that any review of the CPS’s decision needs to be undertaken by lawyers who are independent of the CPS? If he cannot answer that question, will he get me an answer from the Attorney General?

[Mr Ellwood]

As the right hon. Gentleman suggests, I think it would be better for the Attorney General to make that comment. However, I underline the point that the Crown Prosecution Service has stated clearly the reasons for the conclusions that have been reached, but I will invite the Attorney General to write to the right hon. Gentleman with clarity on the second case.

I now turn to some of the right hon. Gentleman’s specific points. On US rendition flights, we have received from the US assurances, which are renewed annually, that apart from two declared incidents in 2002, the US has not held or moved any detainees through the territorial land, air or seas of the UK or our overseas territories. On Diego Garcia, the British Indian Ocean Territory continues to be a vital strategic defence asset to the UK and its allies, including the US, contributing significantly towards global security and efforts at countering regional threats such as terrorism and piracy. The Government welcome the US presence on Diego Garcia and have made it clear that we want that to continue. The Prime Minister discussed Diego Garcia’s future with President Obama on 22 April and discussions are continuing. The issue of rendition is dealt with separately through the yearly assurances that we now receive from the US Government.

On the transit through UK or overseas territories of foreign rendition flights, such requests are considered on a case-by-case basis and are granted only when the purpose of the transit complies fully with international law. Under no circumstances would we approve a rendition that was not in compliance with international law. In the unlikely event that a foreign rendition flight were to land or to pass through UK airspace unexpectedly, we would again consider the case on its merits. There is no point in speculating on hypothetical scenarios, but our actions would always be consistent with our legal obligations.

It is worth mentioning the US Senate report. We welcomed the thorough US Senate Committee investigation into the CIA’s involvement in detention and rendition. We further welcomed President Obama’s acknowledgement that such actions were contrary to US values and did not serve the country’s counter-terrorism or national security interests.

The Government are certainly co-operating fully with the Intelligence and Security Committee’s inquiry. The ISC has confirmed to the Government that it has received all but one of the relevant documents to date, but if it requires any further documents, it only needs to let the Government know.[Official Report, 11 July 2016, Vol. 613, c. 1MC.]

The UK Government do not participate in, solicit, encourage or condone the use of torture for any purpose. We have made that position absolutely clear, both publicly and bilaterally with our overseas partners. It is vital that our security and intelligence services are able to work with liaison partners overseas. The reality is that they will need to work with partners who do not always share our values, but we seek to ensure that acceptable standards are adhered to by those partners when they choose to work with us and to help them to raise their own standards across the board.

In July 2010, the Government published consolidated guidance for the first time setting out the standards that our intelligence officers and service personnel must apply during the detention and interviewing of detainees overseas and in the sharing of intelligence with liaison partners. It makes it clear that we act in compliance with our domestic and international legal obligations, and our values as a nation. Ministers must be consulted in circumstances where personnel judge that there is a serious risk of cruel, inhumane or degrading treatment taking place, and Ministers will consider all relevant factors when deciding whether an operation should proceed. The independent Intelligence Services Commissioner, a former senior judge, oversees compliance with the guidance. He reports annually to the Intelligence and Security Committee, and his role in that regard was put on a statutory footing by a direction from the Prime Minister in November 2014.

I have already touched on Guantanamo Bay. The Government support President Obama’s continued commitment to close down that detention facility, which I visited a number of years ago. When that might happen remains a matter for the US Government. The UK Government have made a significant contribution to reducing the number of detainees by taking back nine UK nationals and, exceptionally, six former UK legal residents.

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for this opportunity to set out the Government’s position today, and I am certainly grateful to other hon. Members for their contributions. In conclusion, I wish to emphasise again that the actions of Ministers and Government officials are bound by their duty to comply with the law. It therefore follows that the Government oppose any means of depriving any individual of their liberty that amounts to putting them outside the protection of that law.

Question put and agreed to.

Human Rights in Iran

Tobias Ellwood Excerpts

Tuesday 28th June 2016 Westminster Hall

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon (Dr Offord) on securing this debate, to which important contributions have been made by Members of all parties. It is a sign of the times that we continue to debate these important matters while keeping in tune with what is happening on the ground in Iran.

As usual, there is not enough time to answer all the detailed questions that I have been asked, as I have only 10 minutes. That is always a frustration for a Minister. However, as I have said in the past, I promise to write to hon. Members with more details on specific questions if I cannot cover them right now.

A couple of hon. Members have enjoyed, or perhaps mocked, the wider picture after last week’s events. I want to make it clear that Britain’s place in the world is undiminished. We are arguably still recognised as the most effective soft power in the world due to our commitment to international aid and our global legacy, not least in the neck of the woods that we are discussing. Our relationship with the Commonwealth is deep, and we are fully committed to NATO. We are the largest military force in NATO, the fifth largest economy and a member of the G7 and the G20. I want to make it clear that our resolve to participate in the world and influence it for the better continues, despite what happened last week.

Whatever negotiations take place—my views on that are clear—we will continue to work with the European Union on matters such as security and Iran. There were two ways of describing the discussions on the nuclear deal, for example: P5+1—the five permanent members of the United Nations Security Council, including Britain, plus Iran—or E3+3. That reflects the fact that countries want to come together to effect change, and not just because they are part of one club or another. Let me make it clear that Britain’s commitment on the international stage, not least in the middle east, continues.

We should reflect on the fact that Iran is a proud and long-standing country with influence in the region. Arguably, it sits at the crossroads of Europe, Asia and the middle east, and it has been the location of successive civilisations. It was the stomping ground of Alexander the Great and Genghis Khan, with each civilisation learning from the next. Britain has its own relationship with Iran, developing from the great game and, more latterly, from the period after the first world war. We should remember the longevity of that relationship, as hon. Members have mentioned. There is a relationship to be had with the people of Persia—of Iran—that is different from the relationship with those in charge. That point is worth mentioning to my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon, who gave a powerful speech.

I see the nuclear deal as a generational opportunity to rebalance the relationship with Iran. It is up to us to decide whether to embrace that opportunity or say, “It’s business as usual. We do not trust the Iranians. We think they’re going to develop a nuclear weapon.” The problem has existed for decades, and this is an opportunity to re-engage with Iran. That is the fundamental point.

We are here to discuss human rights, and this debate has rightly painted a bleak picture of where things are in Iran. We will continue to work together, and I am aware that Iran will be listening to this debate.

[Oliver Dowden (Hertsmere) (Con)]

The Minister mentions Iran listening. I urge him once again to ensure that the Iranian regime listens to the case of Mr Foroughi, a very old man detained on spurious charges, and that of Mrs Nazanin Zaghari-Ratcliffe. I know that he has made many representations, but I urge him to do so again.

[Mr Ellwood]

I thank my hon. Friend for the work that he has done to allow me to meet the family so that we can do what we can, as we do with other difficult consular cases, four of which we are currently very concerned about. The trouble is that they are cases of dual nationals, and Iran does not recognise the dual nationality. That does not prevent us from engaging, thankfully, because our embassy has now reopened. The Prime Minister has written on behalf of my hon. Friend’s constituents, and phone calls have been made. There is now a dialogue, which did not exist before the deal, that allows us to pursue such consular matters with a vigour that we could not before.

To focus again on the human rights situation, Iran continues to be of grave concern. Freedom of religion and belief, freedom of expression, women’s rights and the justice system all need improvement. As has been said, the number of executions—almost 1,000 in the past 18 months alone—is at a record high, despite President Rouhani’s pledge in 2013 to improve the rights and freedoms of Iranian citizens. Unfortunately, progress has been slow, and in some areas things have gone backwards, as has been articulated in this debate. The UK has consistently pressed Iran to improve its human rights record.

Hon. Members rightly asked what we are doing about the issue. We have designated more than 80 Iranians responsible for human rights violations under EU sanctions and helped establish the UN special rapporteur on human rights in Iran, who was mentioned by several hon. Members. We have lobbied at the UN for the adoption of human rights resolutions on Iran. We regularly raise human rights in our dialogue with the country, with Foreign Minister Zarif and President Rouhani. I assure hon. Members that they will also be a focus of our discussions with Iran when we reconvene at the UN General Assembly.

I believe that the approach is balanced. We need continued engagement with the Government of Iran, and developing our bilateral relationship is key to achieving change, but we do not lose sight of the fact that the proxy influence in Baghdad, Sana’a, Damascus, Beirut and Manama continues. That is not the direction of travel of a country that sees re-engaging with the international community as a worthy cause. We challenge it to recognise that if it wants to be seen as participating on the international stage, it must reconsider its involvement and interference in those countries.

Our embassy has been mentioned. It reopened last year and has facilitated visits not only by businesspeople but by the Foreign Secretary. That has enabled the development of stronger ties and candid conversations, whether about Camp Liberty or the Baha’i community. We can bring up such things far more regularly and have frank conversations, many of which are not necessarily always heard about or—I want to make this clear—mentioned in my written answers to questions.

Time is against me, so I will simply say in conclusion that the relationship with Iran, while not always easy, goes back a long way, but the nuclear deal provides a new opening. It is clear that Iran’s future security and prosperity are directly linked to its Government’s willingness to engage with the international community, but human rights are an essential part of that engagement. We acknowledge that progress will be slow, but it is progress worth pursuing. In step with international allies, we will continue to work with Iran to improve the human rights situation there. I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Hendon for securing this debate, and I hope that we will continue to discuss these matters in the House.

Motion lapsed (Standing Order No. 10(6)).

Europe, Human Rights and Keeping People Safe at Home and Abroad

Tobias Ellwood Excerpts

Tuesday 24th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[Jo Cox]

We now have decades and decades of experience showing that early intervention to prevent human rights abuses and mass atrocities works. Does the Foreign Secretary feel that his Department, and indeed the whole of government, would benefit from a mass atrocity prevention lens being focused on all policies so that we intervene early and fast to prevent escalation?

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

Syria.

[Mr Hammond]

What the hon. Lady says is persuasive, but I am trying to think how to operationalise it in a way that is different from what we are already doing. As my hon. Friend reminds me, that is what we thought we were doing in Syria, but unfortunately we have not succeeded in preventing the atrocities that are still going on there. Let me consider further what the hon. Lady has said and perhaps write to her about it.

Under this Government, the UK is making a decisive contribution to the global agenda. We are leading reform in the European Union and, if the British people give their consent, we will continue to drive that reform in the future. We are standing up to Russian aggression, defending the rules-based international system that Russia seeks to undermine and providing military reassurance to our eastern allies who feel so threatened by Russia’s actions.

We are supporting human rights around the world, making it a core part of every diplomat’s work, strengthening the values-based, rule-of-law system upon which our prosperity, our security and our freedoms depend. In an ever-more complex and dangerous world, our diplomats, our military, our intelligence and security services, our police, our border force and many others work tirelessly, day in, day out, to keep us safe. Their achievements often go unsung; the risks they take often go unnoticed, so I want to end by thanking them, on behalf of the whole House and the British people, for the work they do and the remarkable results they deliver.

Oral Answers to Questions

Tobias Ellwood Excerpts

Tuesday 24th May 2016 Commons Chamber

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

Britain and other countries have been appalled by Daesh’s actions against Yazidis and other minorities in northern Iraq. It has prompted us to join other countries in taking action through the formation of the international coalition against Daesh, which now includes more than 60 countries.

[Mrs Lewell-Buck]

As the Minister will know, many Yazidi women and girls who suffered sexual slavery at the hands of Daesh experienced severe trauma, but they struggle to access the support they need. What steps have the UK Government taken under their preventing sexual violence in conflict initiative to promote access to mental health care for all those victims?

[Mr Ellwood]

The hon. Lady is right to point to the importance of the support that we need to provide not just to the Yazidis, but to other minorities that have been affected by Daesh. We are the largest donor to Iraq’s humanitarian pooled fund and there are a number of programmes, including those of the Department for International Development and the human rights and democracy fund, to provide exactly the sort of assistance that is required immediately.

[Kevin Foster (Torbay) (Con)]

As the Minister and the questioner have made clear, the key threat to the Yazidi population and other religious minorities is the control of territory by Daesh. Does my hon. Friend therefore welcome the news this morning that a major assault has been launched to retake Falluja, and does he agree that the liberation of towns and cities is the way that such threats will finally be put to an end?

[Mr Ellwood]

My hon. Friend is right. Little by little, we are able to remove from Daesh the territory that it has held. Falluja was one of the first cities to fall to Daesh. Along with Mosul, these will be important changes that show that Daesh is finally being removed from the territory. But as the hon. Member for South Shields (Mrs Lewell-Buck) pointed out, once we have defeated Daesh militarily, there is a huge amount of work to do on stabilisation and humanitarian support for the people who have suffered so much as a result of the atrocities.

[Liz Saville Roberts (Dwyfor Meirionnydd) (PC)]

The Yazidi people of Iraq were given two choices by Daesh in 2014—convert or die. Will the UK Government accept that what happened in Sinjar was genocide, and urge the Iraqi Government to work with the International Criminal Court to bring murderers and rapists to justice?

[Mr Ellwood]

The hon. Lady raises an important point. Britain stepped forward, along with other countries, to make sure that we were able to provide airdrops and safe passage on Mount Sinjar, which were critical to support for the Yazidis. Her question has been debated at length in this Chamber and I very much support her views, together with John Kerry and the European Parliament, and this Parliament voted on the matter. However, it is not for us to make those judgments; it is for the International Criminal Court. We are helping to collect the evidence to make sure that when the time is appropriate, we can bring those people to justice.

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

Does the Minister agree that the money that this country spends supporting refugees in Iraq and Syria can support a far greater number of people far better than attempting to relocate refugees to the UK, and that it is right that the focus of our efforts is to support people in the region?

[Mr Ellwood]

My hon. Friend raises an important point. The Yazidis as a group are endogamous and have not grown as much as other groupings in Iraq. They want to stay together and they want to stay in the area. For every one person that we are able to support in the UK, we can support more than 20 people in location—clearly, on a different standard, but it means that our money can go a lot further and we can pride ourselves on being one of the largest supporters in Syria and Iraq.

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

The Minister has just repeated the arguments he made to the House on 20 April against referring the genocide of the Yazidi people to the UN Security Council, which this House unanimously rejected. The Minister’s arguments have been challenged in the other place, where the noble Lord Pannick QC pointed out that article VIII of the convention on the prevention of genocide explicitly gives the UK Government the power to make such a referral. May I press the Minister to respect the will of this House and refer the matter to the UN Security Council without further delay?

[Mr Ellwood]

I very much join in the spirit of the hon. Lady’s remarks, but we have to work within the mechanics of such a referral. We took the initiative to bring the situation to the awareness of the International Criminal Court in 2014. Our efforts were vetoed by two permanent members of the Security Council. That will happen again unless we are able to provide the necessary evidence, which is exactly what we are doing. We will hold those people to account, but there is an order and a process that we must honour. I entirely agree with the spirit of what the hon. Lady wants to do.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald (Glasgow South) (SNP)]

4. What recent representations he has made to his counterparts in the middle east on press freedom in that region.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

We encourage all countries to respect freedom of the media. On concerns about freedom of expression in the middle east, we clearly set out these concerns in our annual human rights report, which was most recently published in April.

[Stewart Malcolm McDonald]

It is now four years since the Saudi writer Raif Badawi was arrested. Earlier this month his wife was sentenced to 1,000 lashes for promoting her husband’s cause around the world. Given that it was British engineers who have extracted Saudi oil and built their roads, and given our massive co-operation on matters of defence and foreign policy, are not people around the world and in this country right to have expected a bit more progress than the Government have obtained so far?

[Mr Ellwood]

The hon. Gentleman and I have debated these matters, both publicly and privately, for a long time. We have a right, duty and determination to raise those matters both in public and in private, and we make no distinction between the two. My right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has done that on a number of occasions, as have I. It is for the court in Saudi Arabia to follow its processes, as I have explained to the hon. Gentleman in the past. We must encourage advancement in society in Saudi Arabia, but that will not happen overnight.

[Seema Kennedy (South Ribble) (Con)]

While encouraging press freedom, what more can the Foreign Office do to tackle Daesh’s misuse of the internet, to ensure that free speech is not twisted and abused?

[Mr Ellwood]

My hon. Friend makes a powerful point, which we have raised in this House on a number of occasions. The tool used by Daesh to exploit others and to reach every home in every corner of the globe—it will also be used by future extremists—is the internet. We need to make sure that we are able to counter those messages. Daesh is sending a false message of hope, promising a fast track to paradise. We have formed the strategic communications cell in the Foreign Office, which is bringing together expertise from around the country and, indeed, the world to make sure that we can counter the Daesh messages, whether they be on Twitter, Facebook or other websites.

[Alex Salmond (Gordon) (SNP)]

What representations has the Minister made to President Erdogan’s Government in Turkey about their action against press freedom and their suspension of parliamentary immunities, which may open opposition MPs to accusations of offences such as insulting the President? Will the Minister confirm that there are no plans to introduce an offence of insulting the Prime Minister and that a country engaged in such anti-democratic activities would not be eligible for European Union membership?

[Mr Ellwood]

I concur with the right hon. Gentleman’s view that a free and fair media environment makes for a healthier society. We encourage constructive debate, which is a vital component of a fair and functioning society, no matter where it happens. My right hon. Friend the Minister for Europe has raised the right hon. Gentleman’s specific point with the Turkish Government.

[Alex Salmond]

On the importance of setting an example, can the Minister conceive of circumstances where, on finding that a Scottish newspaper was to publish some inconvenient information about Libya, a Minister in the last coalition Government would have tried to suppress that edition?

[Mr Ellwood]

I think that the right hon. Gentleman is wandering down a particular rabbit hole. We never intervene in the media in that manner, unless it is a matter of state security.

[Kevin Hollinrake (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

Press freedoms are being withdrawn in Turkey. Will the Minister outline the Government’s current position on Turkey’s accession to the EU?

[Mr Ellwood]

Turkey is covered by my right hon. Friend the Minister for Europe. If I may, I will ask him to write to my hon. Friend.

[Mr Speaker]

Very prudent, especially as the question related to press freedom. It was rather naughty of the hon. Member for Thirsk and Malton (Kevin Hollinrake) to seek to divert the Minister from the path of virtue, but he was not so tempted.

[Ann Clwyd (Cynon Valley) (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that press freedom in Turkey has been in decline for many years? Despite the fact that he is not directly responsible for the issue, he must know that President Erdogan has been cracking down on his opponents when they make even the mildest of criticisms of him in the press, and now that the immunity of MPs is being lifted in Turkey, human rights will decline even further.

[Mr Ellwood]

We do not want to see journalists being intimidated, the internet being blocked or people’s ability to speak freely being interfered with, wherever they are in the world. We will continue to make that case from this place and in our direct communications with those Governments.

[Sir Simon Burns (Chelmsford) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend share my view that the notable journalist and writer T. E. Lawrence—better known as Lawrence of Arabia—was an exponent of freedom in the middle east? Now that the Government have prevented the export of his robes and dagger, where will the public be able to see them as an inspiration for greater understanding of the middle east and to encourage greater freedom in that part of the world?

[Mr Ellwood]

I congratulate my right hon. Friend on weaving in an important aspect of our history and making it relevant to this question. He is absolutely right about the importance of saving not only the robe but the dagger for the nation. They will not be leaving the country. The dagger was given to Lawrence of Arabia by Sherif Nasir after Lawrence’s fantastic attack on Aqaba. On his way there—this was glossed over by the media at the time—he accidentally shot his camel, but he continued on another camel and was able to take Aqaba. He later moved to work in the Foreign Office, and I would like the garment—the gown or the robe—and indeed the dagger to be on display in the Foreign Office. I am not sure that we will be successful in that, but I am glad to say that the dagger will stay in the United Kingdom.

[Mr Speaker]

We are very glad that the Minister is spending his time in the Foreign Office so profitably and is becoming so learned.

--- Later in debate ---

[Craig Tracey (North Warwickshire) (Con)]

6. What recent assessment he has made of the extent of radicalisation in the Palestinian Territories.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

I condemn all violence and all efforts to incite or radicalise people to commit violence in the middle east. During my most recent visit to the Occupied Palestinian Territories in February, I raised this issue with the Palestinian Authority and urged them to do more to tackle this issue and make clear their opposition to violence.

[Craig Tracey]

Last week, the Fatah party in Palestine described the terrorist who killed 26 people and wounded more than 80 in a shooting attack at a Israel’s main airport in 1972 as a “hero” and said it was

“proud of every fighter who has joined our mighty revolution”

against Israel. Does the Minister agree that the success of the two-state solution that we all want rests upon the Palestinian Authority starting to teach its young people about peaceful coexistence?

[Mr Ellwood]

My hon. Friend makes an important point about peaceful coexistence. It is important that President Abbas condemn statements such as that when they are made. I have noticed a disjunct between the elderly leadership and the youth, who feel disfranchised and so are taking matters into their own hands. I looked into the particular claim that my hon. Friend has raised; I understand that it was placed on Facebook and so was not attributed to a particular Minister, as has been the case in the past. Nevertheless, it should be condemned and removed, as my hon. Friend indicated.

[Richard Burden (Birmingham, Northfield) (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that people’s expectation that they will be able to carry on living in their own homes would not normally be regarded as a sign of radicalisation? He will know that in the past week he has received a number of parliamentary questions from me and others about the fact that more than 90 Palestinian Bedouins, mostly children, have lost their homes in the village of Jabal al-Baba. He has said in his written answers that the Foreign Office condemns that but also that it has not raised that specific case with the Israeli authorities. Is it not time to do so, not least because the demolished structures are EU funded?

[Mr Ellwood]

I fully concur with the spirit of what the hon. Gentleman has said. I have visited one of the Bedouin camps. I should make it clear that that situation is different from the situation for those based in the occupied Palestinian territories; some are being removed in green line Israel, as well. These people are reliant on farming and so need space, so there is the internal issue of making sure that they are given the same amount of space if there is a requirement for them to be moved.

--- Later in debate ---

[Keith Vaz (Leicester East) (Lab)]

9. What recent assessment he has made of progress in the peace process in Yemen.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

The past couple of years have been long and difficult for Yemen, so I very much welcome the cessation of hostilities that began on 10 April and the UN-led talks that began in Kuwait on 21 April.

[Keith Vaz]

Yesterday, a suicide bomb in Aden killed 45 people who were trying to join the Yemeni army. What steps can we take to stop that beautiful city in Yemen, where I and other Members of this House were born, being destroyed by the civil war going on between the various forces?

[Mr Ellwood]

First, I pay tribute to the right hon. Gentleman for raising these matters regularly. He has huge expertise on Yemen, and I am pleased that he is able to hold the Government to account on what we are doing in this important area of the middle east. He is right that events are taking place because hardliners want to throw the talks and the cessation of hostilities off track. We encourage both sides to stay firm in their commitment to a political solution, not least because of the humanitarian catastrophe taking place.

[Stephen Doughty (Cardiff South and Penarth) (Lab/Co-op)]

A series of serious allegations were made yesterday by Amnesty International about the alleged use of UK-manufactured cluster munitions against civilians in Yemen by the Saudi-led coalition. Did the Minister, or any UK personnel operating in Saudi Arabia or Yemen, have any knowledge that those cluster munitions were being used? If so, what action has been taken?

[Mr Ellwood]

That is probably more a question for the Ministry of Defence, but from my understanding—my right hon. Friend the Foreign Secretary has just confirmed this—we are not at all aware of this. Let me make it clear that the munitions that the hon. Gentleman has mentioned are almost three decades old. They are probably past their sell-by date, and it would be dangerous for anybody to go anywhere near them.

[Mr David Burrowes (Enfield, Southgate) (Con)]

10. What progress has been made on implementation of the joint comprehensive plan of action with Iran.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Louise Ellman (Liverpool, Riverside) (Lab/Co-op)]

11. What assessment he has made of the effect of the recent activities of Hamas in Gaza on the middle east peace process.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

The recent activities of Hamas in Gaza, including attempts to rearm and rebuild tunnel infrastructure, undermine efforts to improve the situation in Gaza and harm prospects for the middle east peace process. Hamas and other militant groups in Gaza must permanently end rocket fire and other attacks against Israel.

[Mrs Ellman]

In April, two new terror tunnels built by Hamas to launch attacks on Israeli civilians were discovered. Does the Minister believe that Hamas is planning new attacks on Israel?

[Mr Ellwood]

As I said earlier, I believe that is a worrying development, and we seek to place pressure on Hamas, and all those close to it, to recognise that it will take us back to where we were two years ago, unless there is a direction of travel.

[John Cryer (Leyton and Wanstead) (Lab)]

Does the Minister place any significance on the founding charter of Hamas, which is clearly, or to a large extent, a stream of the most visceral anti-Semitism, and even includes approving references to the “Protocols of the Elders of Zion”?

[Mr Ellwood]

I have many conversations about that situation and the challenges we face in the middle east, not least in Gaza and the west bank. A number of commentators have said, “You need to speak to Hamas; you need to get them to the table”, but until Hamas changes its constitution, in which it clearly does not recognise the state of Israel, it will be impossible for us to move forward.

[Mr Keith Simpson (Broadland) (Con)]

12. What steps he is taking to eradicate rodents and other vermin in his Department’s Whitehall estate.

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[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

13. What discussions he has had with his Egyptian counterpart on the human rights situation in that country.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

Ministers and senior officials regularly raise human rights concerns with our Egyptian counterparts. My right hon. Friend the Prime Minister discussed these issues with President Sisi during his visit to the UK in November. I regularly raise our concerns with the Egyptian ambassador, most recently on 17 May.

[Mr Carmichael]

I am grateful to the Minister for that answer. Ibrahim Halawa, an Irish national who has been in custody now for 1,000 days, faces a possible death penalty for being caught up in a pro-democracy demonstration. He is just one person in a concerted crackdown by Egyptian authorities against those who defend human rights. Will the Minister make every effort, when speaking to the Egyptian Government, to impress on them the view that we hold, which is that this is unacceptable?

[Mr Ellwood]

If I may, Mr Speaker, I would like to pay my condolences on the loss of aircraft EgyptAir MS804, yet another disaster for Egypt. The whole House will want to share their thoughts and prayers.

Tourism is very important for Egypt. The right hon. Gentleman touches on freedom of expression, and people will be watching Egypt carefully. I raised the matter of Ahmed Abdullah when I met the ambassador on 17 May. I will continue to press for greater freedom of expression in Egypt.

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

I share the condolences expressed by the Minister.

Human rights in Egypt are deteriorating rapidly. Giulio Regeni, a Cambridge University student, was tortured and killed in Egypt while conducting academic research. This happened during the British-Egyptian year of academic co-operation. Does the Minister accept that killing an academic marks a fundamental attack on academic freedom? Will the Minister explain why the murder of a British-based academic was not raised by the Prime Minister’s special envoy on a visit to specifically discuss academic co-operation?

[Mr Ellwood]

We debated these matters in detail in a very productive Westminster Hall debate. The hon. Lady will be aware, as will the House, that Giulio Regeni was an Italian citizen and that therefore it is appropriate and right that the Italians take the lead. We have worked closely with, and provided support to, the Italians as they have pursued the matter, however, and have raised it with Egyptian officials as well.

[James Berry (Kingston and Surbiton) (Con)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

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[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Foreign and Commonwealth Affairs (Mr Tobias Ellwood)]

My hon. Friend is right to raise the devastating impact of this attack on the Tunisian economy. We are working very closely to provide support to the country’s policing in order to secure its borders. We are doing all we can to support the Britons affected by the bombs—whether it be the families of the bereaved, those who were injured in the attack or even those who saw what happened and need psychological support. We held a commemoration service in April.

[Ms Tasmina Ahmed-Sheikh (Ochil and South Perthshire) (SNP)]

As “Project Fear” reaches dizzy new heights, the Prime Minister and certain members of this Government are making clear on a daily basis the potentially disastrous consequences of Scotland and the UK leaving the EU. Given that, will the Secretary of State confirm why this Government have taken our country into such a precarious position?

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[Ms Margaret Ritchie (South Down) (SDLP)]

What is the Foreign Secretary’s assessment of the growing violations of press freedom in Tunisia?

[Mr Ellwood]

As I said earlier, Tunisia is going through a difficult period at the moment. It has been subjected to a number of terrorist attacks and attempted attacks. We have almost doubled the size of our embassy there, and we are doing our best to ensure that we provide support during this difficult period. I would be happy to discuss in more detail some of the challenges relating to freedom of the press with the hon. Lady outside the Chamber.

[Several hon. Members rose—]