National Insurance Contributions (Reduction in Rates) (No.2) Bill

Nigel Huddleston Excerpts

2nd reading
Wednesday 13th March 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Nigel Huddleston)]

I thank all right hon. and hon. Members for their contributions. I think it would be fair to say that a range of perspectives have been presented, but most of us—certainly on the Government Benches—agree that this is an important piece of legislation. It will deliver tax cuts that make the tax system fairer, while rewarding and incentivising work, and growing the economy in a sustainable way. The national insurance cuts are an important part of that, and they are policy.

I want to respond to the confusion of the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn (Tulip Siddiq), which is understandable given that we have heard promises, policies, aspirations and ambitions from the Labour party in relation to the £28 billion. Let me be clear: it is my party’s ambition to eliminate national insurance. I know that Labour Members do not understand what the word “ambition” means and that it is difficult, but it is an ambition. That is the difference.

I will briefly reiterate the Bill’s main measures and what they seek to achieve. First, the Bill builds on the cuts to national insurance announced in the autumn statement by reducing the main rate of class 1 employee NICs from 10% to 8%. That change will come into effect from 6 April 2024, with employees benefiting from April onwards as employers make the changes to their payroll systems. Secondly, the Bill reduces the self-employed class 4 main rate of NICs from 8% to 6% from 6 April. That follows on from the one percentage point reduction to the main rate of class 4 NICs from 9% to 8% announced in the autumn statement 2023.

Now that inflation is falling and the economy is improving, as we saw in this morning’s figures, which I am sure the Opposition welcome, we can responsibly return some money to taxpayers, but it is important to do so in a way that supports work and grows a sustainable economy for the future. A UK employee can already earn more money before paying income tax and social security contributions than an employee in any other G7 country, and thanks to the NICs cuts in the autumn statement and the spring Budget and above-inflation increases to thresholds since 2010, an average worker on £35,400 in 2024-25 will pay over £1,500 less in personal taxes than they would have done if the thresholds had just increased in line with inflation. As my hon. Friend the Member for St Austell and Newquay (Steve Double) pointed out very well, in contrast to the comments of the hon. Member for Hampstead and Kilburn, we have reduced the amount of tax paid by increasing the threshold from £6,500 to more than £12,500 over the period in which we have been in office. Labour opposed many of those threshold increases.

My hon. Friend the Member for St Austell and Newquay also made the important point that the measures we have taken in recent fiscal events have been focused on helping 29 million workers. Some 27 million employees will benefit from an average £900 saving in national insurance, but of course, we also care deeply about pensioners. Those on the full basic pension will receive an extra £700 in April and those on the full new state pension will receive an extra £900, so 12 million pensioners will also benefit from the significant increases that we will provide through the triple lock. Of course, it is perfectly fair that workers also get some advantage—they will be receiving the benefits I have outlined. The Government are cutting taxes in a responsible way, and have taken difficult but responsible decisions to restore the public finances in the wake of global crises.

[Drew Hendry]

The Minister has used the word “responsible” a number of times. As has been pointed out by many organisations, not least the Institute for Fiscal Studies and the OBR, there will be substantial cuts to public services. With many English councils already in special measures—effective bankruptcy—where does the Minister see those cuts falling? How will they filter through to the public, and what will be the effect on public sector jobs?

[Nigel Huddleston]

As the hon. Member will be aware and as the Chancellor outlined, based on current spending assumptions, total departmental spending will still be £86 billion higher in real terms by 2028-29 than at the start of this Parliament. If he was listening to the debates earlier this week, he will be aware that we will increase spending in real terms by 1% during the forecast period.

The hon. Member and others have raised points about fairness and making sure that we look after the most vulnerable in society, which is of course something we are committed to. Distributional analysis published alongside the spring Budget shows that the typical household at any income decile will see a net benefit in 2024-25 as a result of Government decisions made in the autumn statement—and, indeed, from the autumn statement 2022 onwards—and that low-income households will see the largest benefit as a percentage of income.

We have mentioned many times our commitment to the national living wage. It will soon increase by 9.8% to £11.44, which is expected to benefit around 2.7 million workers. It is important to stress that from April, a full-time national living wage worker’s take-home pay will be 35% greater in real terms than it was in 2010, due to successive increases in the national living wage and changes to personal tax rates and thresholds.

To respond to a few other comments made by right hon. and hon. Members, my right hon. Friends the Members for Witham (Priti Patel) and for Wokingham (John Redwood) both gave excellent speeches, in which they not only championed workers—including the self-employed—but highlighted the fact that we have to operate in a particular context. As has been mentioned many times today, we are in a difficult financial situation because of a global pandemic that hit the global economy, which was followed by the invasion of Ukraine and the significant impact it had on inflation around the world.

The question, as my right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham pointed out, is how much higher taxes would be if Labour had been in charge. Throughout the pandemic, the Government received a lot of support from Members on both sides of the Chamber. That was completely right, but many Members were calling for even greater intervention and even longer lockdowns, which would potentially have done immense damage to the economy.

Some hon. Members raised the contributory principle. In our ambition for further reductions in national insurance, we will make sure that the future tax system has the right mechanism for establishing entitlement to contributory benefits, including the state pension. My right hon. Friend also mentioned the rise in the VAT threshold, which is really important. It will go from £85,000 to £90,000, which means that 28,000 fewer small businesses will be registered for VAT. My hon. Friend the Member for Ruislip, Northwood and Pinner (David Simmonds) highlighted this Government’s record on jobs in creating 800 jobs a day and in significantly reducing youth unemployment, of which we can all be proud.

My hon. Friend the Member for Aberconwy (Robin Millar), who raised many important points in his speech, pointed out the rather irresponsible scaremongering we have heard today from those on the Labour Front Bench relating to spending on pensions and the NHS. The Opposition should be well aware, especially if they wish to form a Government, that the money raised by NICs does not determine the amount going to the NHS and state pensions. We have announced increasing funding to the NHS and we are uprating state pensions by 8.5% this year, as I have mentioned. We on these Benches can tolerate a decent debate—we are fairly robust— but we will not tolerate irresponsible scaremongering, especially when targeted at the most vulnerable in society, purely to try to take political advantage from making up policies that do not exist. I hope that at some point the Opposition will either get some economic competence or apologise for that.

This really important Bill delivers tax cuts for over 29 million working people. A yearly saving of over £450 for the average worker will result from this Bill alone. Taken together with the cuts to NICs at the autumn statement, it will be worth over £900 per year for the average worker. This will benefit households throughout the United Kingdom and in every single constituency represented in this place. However, here we are again, and in nearly three hours of debate, we have heard nothing but doom and gloom from the Opposition. How disappointed they must have been this morning to hear that the economy has grown. While I am not pretending for one minute that everything is perfect—as I have said, our constituents and the country have been through a very challenging time—it is important to recognise, welcome and applaud success, especially if a party wants to lead a country, champion trade abroad and attract investment. What a terrible advert for the UK we have heard from the Opposition today, who are completely lacking in confidence and ambition for our economy and our workers.

The national insurance cuts we are debating reward work and will provide a further boost to the economy. We are turning a corner, and the plan is working. While we want to put more money back into people’s pockets, the Opposition want to take more out, and while we take every opportunity to talk the country up, they take every opportunity to talk Britain down. The choice is very clear: a plan for growth and a brighter future with the Conservatives, or no hope, no clue and no plan with the Opposition. I commend the Bill to the House.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

Should there be a vote on the amendment, 10 minutes will be allowed, and if there is then a vote on Second Reading, eight minutes will be allowed.

Question put, That the amendment be made.

Commonwealth Parliamentary Association and International Committee of the Red Cross (Status) Bill (Money)

Nigel Huddleston Excerpts

Money resolution
Wednesday 28th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Nigel Huddleston)]

I thank the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth (Stephen Doughty) and my right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Northampton North (Sir Michael Ellis) for their contributions. I have heard my right hon. and learned Friend, as I am sure has the ICRC.

The purpose of the Bill is to enable the Government to treat the CPA and the ICRC in a manner comparable to that of an international organisation. My right hon. and learned Friend made some broader comments and, as I say, the Government have heard them and I am sure that the ICRC has heard them.

I thank the hon. Member for Cardiff South and Penarth for his comments, particularly the way in which he, too, recognised and applauded the work of the Commonwealth Parliamentary Association. Its purpose and role are recognised across the House and around the world. There will be further debate on the Bill in Committee, so I will end my comments there.

Question put and agreed to.

Treasury

Nigel Huddleston Excerpts

Thursday 22nd February 2024 Ministerial Corrections

[Rebecca Long Bailey (Salford and Eccles) (Lab)]

T2. Many of my constituents whose lives have been destroyed by the loan charge scandal feel the central injustice is that the Government are focused on pursuing the victims rather than the companies responsible. They were dismayed to read recent allegations that individuals linked to such companies have donated hundreds of thousands of pounds to the Conservative party. Will the Chancellor confirm why exactly the Government are ignoring the providers and operators of the schemes? How many have been prosecuted specifically for their involvement in disguised remuneration, and not for other misdemeanours?

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Nigel Huddleston)]

Eighty-five per cent of the funds recovered from the loan charge so far—about £3.9 billion in total —have come from the employees, therefore those who were running those schemes, so the hon. Lady is mischaracterising where we have gone so far. There has been one criminal conviction so far; others are in place. I repeat what I said to the Opposition spokesman, the hon. Member for Ealing North (James Murray), earlier: if they were that concerned about ensuring we go after the wrongdoers, they would have voted with us last night in the Finance Bill.

[Official Report, 6 February 2024, Vol. 745, c. 117.]

Letter of correction from the Financial Secretary to the Treasury, the hon. Member for Mid Worcestershire (Nigel Huddleston) :

Errors have been identified in the response I gave to the hon. Member for Salford and Eccles (Rebecca Long Bailey).

The correct response should have been:

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Nigel Huddleston)]

About 80% of the funds recovered so far from settlement of disguised remuneration schemes including the loan charge—about £3.9 billion in total—have come from the employees, therefore those who were running those schemes, so the hon. Lady is mischaracterising where we have gone so far. There has been one criminal conviction so far; others are in place. I repeat what I said to the Opposition spokesman, the hon. Member for Ealing North (James Murray), earlier: if they were that concerned about ensuring we go after the wrongdoers, they would have voted with us last night in the Finance Bill.

Coastal Tourism and Hospitality: Fiscal Support

Nigel Huddleston Excerpts

Thursday 22nd February 2024 Westminster Hall

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Nigel Huddleston)]

Let me join others in thanking the Backbench Business Committee for granting this debate, and congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for North Devon (Selaine Saxby) on securing it. As she referred to in her speech, she is indeed a persistent and persuasive advocate not only for her own constituents and constituency, but for the vital tourism, hospitality and leisure sector. I thank everybody for their contributions today; we have heard many good arguments, showing right across all four nations the passion, enthusiasm, empathy, love and support for this vital sector that employs so many of our constituents directly, and even more indirectly.

The Government are committed to promoting economic growth in all parts of the UK, and in order to do so we recognise the unique challenges faced by coastal communities, as raised by many Members today. We have supported coastal communities to level up through the dedicated funding under the coastal communities fund, while the levelling-up fund has provided more than £1 billion to projects in coastal areas. That was raised by my right hon. Friend the Member for Witham (Priti Patel), my hon. Friend the Member for Hastings and Rye (Sally-Ann Hart) and others. More than £400 million has been provided from the UK shared prosperity fund, which will go to lead local authorities within or serving coastal areas.

The long-term plan for towns also targets more than £1 billion of support for towns up and down the country, including coastal towns, each of which will get about £20 million over the next decade. This is built on the support offered through successful bids into town deals and the future high streets fund. It is important to mention that of the 101 towns receiving a town deal, 22 are coastal and are set to receive more than half a billion pounds alongside almost £150 million from the future high streets fund. Therefore, directly or indirectly, the tourism, hospitality and leisure sectors will rightly benefit from some of this additional investment. Every Member has outlined today how the sector makes such a significant contribution to the UK economy as a whole, and to coastal areas in particular.

Let us not forget that the sector particularly suffered from the pandemic and is still recovering. Since the start of the pandemic, we have provided more than £37 billion for the tourism, hospitality and leisure sectors in the form of grants, loans and tax breaks. I think the hon. Member for North Devon mentioned some of those loans that are still being repaid. She was right to point out that they are still a burden on many businesses, but she will be aware that we have introduced considerable flexibility in those loans, extending the time to pay some of them from six to 10 years, and other measures. We are aware of the challenges. There is still a lot of debt to be paid off by individual companies, but also by the nation as a whole, because about £350 billion of support in total was provided to support individuals and the economy during the pandemic. That needs to be paid off, and everybody is sensible and aware that that will not be easy. It is why tax levels are as they are at the moment.

Of course, over the 2021 spending review period, the Government also allocated over £100 million to support the British Tourist Authority, which of course supports VisitBritain and VisitEngland, whose important work was mentioned by my hon. Friend the Member for Waveney (Peter Aldous); he also raised the point about where they spend their money, which is something that my colleagues at the Department of Culture, Media and Sport maintain a focus on. I applaud the work done by those bodies and by VisitScotland, Visit Wales, and the equivalents for Ireland and Northern Ireland. They do incredibly valuable work and attract not only domestic visitors but visitors in their millions from around the world, who come and enjoy everything that we have to offer.

Many Members have mentioned business rates. I have been lobbied by the ever-busy Kate Nicholls from UKHospitality; it sounds like she has been around quite a lot recently—and rightly so, because she represents such an important sector and so many people across the country. We have heard what those people have had to say and many Members have today re-emphasised the points that the industry bodies are making; UKHospitality is one of many industry bodies that are incredibly powerful and persuasive.

In the autumn statement, we announced tax cuts for the sector worth about £4.3 billion over five years. As has been mentioned by several Members, we also extended the retail and hospitality leisure relief scheme on business rates to 75%, creating a tax cut worth almost £2.4 billion for about 230,000 retail hospitality and leisure properties, which of course helps our high streets and protects small shops, many of which are in our coastal communities.

Of course, that relief was not extended by our colleagues in Scotland, nor fully extended in Wales. I assure hon. Members that we keep an eye on what is happening in other parts of the country and we share ideas. The sector is not particularly party political, as I know from my tourism role; tourism Ministers and others meet regularly across the nations, and work together and share ideas. In these difficult financial times there is not always the money to go around to do all the things that we would like to do, but we prioritised retail, hospitality and leisure for that specific additional relief in England.

The UK Government also decided to freeze the small business multiplier for the fourth consecutive year in 2024-25. That will protect over 1 million ratepayers and, combined with small business rates relief, will protect 90% of properties from inflationary bill increases. It will have a significant impact. For example, the typical pub will receive £11,800 of RHL relief off their final business rates bill in 2024-25; and, combined with the frozen small business multiplier, will benefit from about £12,800 of support.

Many Members also mentioned the registration threshold, which we have also received quite a lot of lobbying on. Of course, the Government recognise that accounting for that threshold can be burdensome on small businesses. That is why the UK has the second highest VAT threshold, at £85,000, within the OECD—keeping the majority of UK businesses out of VAT all together. I recognise that views on the VAT registration threshold are divided and the case for change has been reviewed regularly over the years. There was a review just a few years ago. No clear option for reform emerged from that review, but, as with all tax policy, we will continue to keep this policy under review. I am afraid that that might be a point I make several times in my concluding comments.

Quite importantly, several Members also raised the issue of cutting national insurance. As part of our long-term plan for growth and to ensure that work pays, we have cut taxes for 29 million working people. From last month, 27 million employees have had their national insurance contributions, or NICs, cut from 12% to 10%. That means that the average worker on £35,400 will receive an annual tax cut of more than £450 a year. Of course, the self-employed will have a tax cut and that benefit will come in from April. That comes on top of the existing £5,000 employment allowance, which means that about 40% of all businesses—around 675,000 in total—have been taken out of paying employer NICs entirely. My hon. Friend the Member for North Devon and I have spoken about that on many occasions. I heard the many calls for further reform of and further movement on national insurance contributions, but in advance of a fiscal statement, I am afraid that the Chancellor would not be impressed if I announced policy today. Nevertheless, all these issues are being looked at.

Hon. Members mentioned a few other issues. The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) always makes important contributions, but from my multiple roles over many years, I know that the tourism, hospitality and leisure sector is a particular passion of his. I will finally take him up on his invitation to visit his constituency; my goal is to sort that out, so let’s talk dates very soon. As usual, he brought up something that other people do not. He reminded us that, although we can control certain things and pull certain levers, the all-important thing for the tourism, hospitality and leisure sector is the weather, which plays a vital role—sometimes boom or bust.

My hon. Friend the Member for Waveney pointed out the incredible diversity of offerings in the United Kingdom, so it is important to remember that at all times of year, in all weathers, there is something compelling to visit. We need to get that message across domestically and internationally through marketing.

The hon. Member for Strangford mentioned our heritage and the role played by the National Trust and many others in the ecosystem. I am more than happy to have conversations with other colleagues about his points about Barnett consequentials and the block grant, and I know he is having those conversations too. I will make sure they hear what he said today and his contributions in other areas.

My hon. Friend the Member for Hastings and Rye mentioned the importance of seasonality, which is related to the weather, and what we can do to reduce it. That is a particularly acute issue for the UK tourism industry, and it of course impacts productivity over the course of the year. She also mentioned planning policy and the important changes recently announced by DLUHC in response to its consultation with DCMS. The sector has been calling for a registration scheme for some time, and we hope it will have the desired impact.

The right hon. Member for Orkney and Shetland (Mr Carmichael) also talked about planning policy in different parts of the UK and about different regimes. He is an extremely knowledgeable advocate for the sector, and rightly pointed out that the multiplier impact is key. There is obviously a direct impact, but sometimes the indirect impacts are difficult to assess. He mentioned the VAT cut during the pandemic. We estimate that that cost the Treasury about £8 billion, but of course that was needed; it was a very difficult time. It was always intended to be temporary, although we are hearing many calls for a further reduction in VAT. That figure alone shows that it would not come without considerable cost, which needs to be factored in, but we recognise that there is a multiplier impact.

If we were to repeat that reduction, the cost would probably be £10 billion or £12 billion. Some are lobbying for a smaller rate cut to about 12.5%, which would have a smaller cost, but we are still talking about a loss of billions of pounds of revenue to the Treasury. As with all requests for a VAT cut, we need to know what the purpose is, what the impact will be and whether we can be confident that the lower prices will be passed on to the end consumer. That is usually the purpose of VAT cuts, in contrast with help with cash flow through other mechanisms such as business rates relief. The right hon. Gentleman was absolutely right to point out that, in this sector, pulling one lever can have a positive impact across a very wide area indeed.

My hon. Friend the Member for Waveney was right to showcase his constituency and others, because we have so much to offer. He unsurprisingly had a very broad range of asks and requests, which I will pass on to the relevant Departments. I assure him that we do talk across Departments, so I have had conversations with colleagues about many of the points he raised and other issues, because no one Department has oversight or control over the sector. As we have found in this broad-ranging debate, many Ministers and many Departments have some control over certain levers, but we talk to each other.

My hon. Friend also mentioned Hoseasons in his constituency. I should declare that I have visited on many occasions, because it was a client of mine many years ago. As some may know, I worked in the sector before coming into Parliament. I always enjoyed my visits to Lowestoft and the area—it was always sunny.

I am coming to an end, Mrs Cummins; I know that the debate could go on for three hours, but I will ensure that we do not. I am in agreement with many of the points made by my SNP and Labour opposite numbers—the hon. Members for Coatbridge, Chryston and Bellshill (Steven Bonnar) and for Ealing North (James Murray) respectively—because of the nature of the sector. In some other areas, I am in slight, respectful disagreement with them, but that should not detract from the fact that this sector has all-party support.

We may have differences of view on what levers to pull, but the sector has support across the whole House, so I conclude by saying that I very much appreciate all the contributions made today by right hon. and hon. Members—many substantial contributions, some compelling arguments and some very good ideas. In advance of a fiscal event, I cannot make any announcements or commitments, but I want to make it clear that we are always listening.

Independent School Fees: VAT

Nigel Huddleston Excerpts

Wednesday 21st February 2024 Westminster Hall

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Nigel Huddleston)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship, Mr Henderson. Please allow me to start by congratulating my hon. Friend the Member for Northampton South (Andrew Lewer) on securing the debate. What a pity we have only 60 minutes, because there was so much more to say here. We heard some fascinating and thoughtful contributions on the matter of independent school fees and VAT.

It will not surprise anyone present to hear that I agree wholeheartedly with Government Members, and I am very pleased to hear from our Lib Dem and DUP colleagues, who support the Government’s policy to allow independent school fees to be exempt from VAT for the many valid and obvious reasons expressed by hon. Members and right hon. Members today. Those include the incredible impact that they have on communities, the partnering, their impact on so many people’s lives, and the fundamental principle of choice.

I am afraid that what we have heard from the Opposition is what we hear consistently. Perhaps we might all be sighing with relief soon when we get the inevitable flip-flopping on this policy—I do not believe for one minute that it is wholeheartedly supported by Opposition Members. It is just virtue signalling of the highest order. It is complete left-wing populist virtue signalling by the Opposition, but the British public see straight through it. This Government understand the vital role that education plays in all our lives. Just this year, school funding will total about £57.7 billion, and next year it will be £59.6 billion. I am very proud to say that that will be the highest ever real-terms spending per pupil under the Conservatives.

[Sir John Hayes (South Holland and The Deepings) (Con)]

I am grateful to the Minister for giving way; I learned as a shadow Minister and a Minister that it is better to be gracious. The Minister will understand that one of the best arguments for independent schools is that they often innovate. My right hon. and learned Friend the Member for Fareham (Suella Braverman) was involved in establishing a school that innovates and breaks new ground. From Steiner schools to Bedales to Summerhill, those schools could only exist in the independent sector. How does the Minister think that the Labour party perceives that, or does it not perceive it at all?

[Nigel Huddleston]

My right hon. Friend, as always, talks very sensibly about this. The independent sector is a major contributor to our ecosystem. Of course, many teachers flip flop between the different sectors; the innovation in the private sector can also help the state sector, which is one of the many benefits that we have heard about today. In terms of the broader performance in the education system, not only do the Opposition consistently talk down the economy, our constituencies and our businesses but they also talk down our teaching profession. Actually, it is incredibly successful and we should be proud of what teachers have achieved.

Our commitment to quality education has seen 89% of all schools achieve “good” or “outstanding” at their most recent inspection, an increase from 68% back in 2010 under Labour. In the programme for international student assessment, our rankings for reading and maths improved by 10 places from 2015 to 2022 to ninth and 10th across the Organisation for Economic Co-operation and Development countries. Within that mix, as we all know, England performed better than Labour-run Wales or SNP-run Scotland, despite their higher funding. If we want to see what would happen in education under Labour, all we need to do is look to Wales—it is not an impressive performance. In the latest paediatric adverse childhood experiences and related life-events screener assessment of reading for 10-year-old students across 57 education systems, England ranked fourth internationally. I think we can all accept that those are good things.

This Conservative Government believe that there is a broad public benefit in the provision of education. That is why many education and training services are exempt from VAT, which includes an exemption on independent school fees. Labour does not seem to recognise the public good, as my right hon. Friend the Member for South Holland and The Deepings just mentioned. It wants to charge VAT on school fees and end business rates relief for private schools, taxing aspiration and inevitably putting more pressure on state schools.

[Brendan Clarke-Smith (Bassetlaw) (Con)]

I am very blessed to have two excellent independent schools in my constituency, Worksop College and Ranby House, and I speak as a former head of an independent school myself. We also have some excellent state schools at the Outwood Grange Academies Trust that give outstanding opportunities to local pupils. Does the Minister agree that the knock-on effect of this is not spoken about enough? Labour is actually adding to the capacity problems and neglecting the state sector in what it is doing to the independent sector.

[Nigel Huddleston]

My hon. Friend makes a really important point that has been repeated by many colleagues today. An introduction of 20% VAT can have two impacts: it will either push up prices or lead to cutting costs somehow. It is intuitively obvious that, if we push large numbers of pupils from the private sector into the state sector, it will inevitably put pressure on the state sector and therefore cost members of the public even more. The numbers suggested by the Opposition simply do not stack up. It is an ill thought out policy. The full knock-on impact has not been properly considered. VAT is an incredibly complex area. It is not simple to make blanket policy without considering the full impact.

Not every private school is some kind of Eton—a point made by my hon. Friend the Member for Worcester (Mr Walker) and several other hon. Members. There are exceptionally vulnerable people in very deprived areas of the country who rely on our private schools to provide the type of education they cannot get in the mainstream system.

[Sally-Ann Hart]

It is well known that many of our major independent schools such as Eton and Harrow give 100% bursaries to children from disadvantaged areas to give them a chance to skill up and to benefit for their own communities. That is amazing.

[Nigel Huddleston]

My hon. Friend is absolutely correct; the broader societal benefit of many of our private schools is considerable. That is one of the reasons why many, although not all, have charitable status. They provide all sorts of benefits, including through opening up for sports provision.

The Government are not alone in having concerns about Labour’s current policy. Labour’s own shadow Chief Secretary to the Treasury, the hon. Member for Bristol North West (Darren Jones), spoke out against its planned tax rise before he joined the Front Bench, telling students that he did not believe the policy would bring in the money that his party was promising. Of course, that has not stopped Labour from spending the money several times over already, and it does not have a plan to pay for the potential incremental costs.

I will bring my comments to a close, but I must express a slight disappointment: much as it is always a pleasure to have the hon. Member for Dulwich and West Norwood in this Chamber, I am normally faced in these debates by my opposite number, the hon. Member for Ealing North (James Murray). I must share an irony in that situation: I stand here today as a proud product of a comprehensive state school education nevertheless supporting the role of private schools in the UK and the principles of freedom of choice, aspiration, opportunity and social mobility.

My Labour counterpart is a product of the private school system yet is advocating a policy that could potentially restrict access to the very system from which he has himself benefited, as indeed have many Members on the Opposition Benches. I find that quite ironic and hypocritical, but I will never criticise somebody for the choices made by their parents. We do not do that on this side of the Chamber, but a little bit of humility in this debate might be appreciated. A good education for all is a priority for this Government, and I hope hon. Members from across the House will work with us to deliver it.

[Gordon Henderson (in the Chair)]

Andrew Lewer, you have two minutes to wind up.

Home Responsibilities Protection: Corrective Exercise

Nigel Huddleston Excerpts

Thursday 8th February 2024 Written Statements

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Nigel Huddleston)]

The pensions Minister, my hon. Friend the Member for Blackpool North and Cleveleys (Paul Maynard), and I can now announce that HM Revenue and Customs (HMRC) has started to write to people whose national insurance records may be affected by some missing periods of home responsibilities protection, inviting them to apply to fill potential gaps and ensure that they receive the state pension entitlement they are due.

Home responsibilities protection was a scheme that ran between 6 April 1978 and 5 April 2010 which reduced the number of qualifying years of national insurance contributions a person with caring responsibilities needed to receive the full basic state pension.

The Government reported the findings of our investigations into some missing historical periods of home responsibilities protection in some individuals’ records, and the associated impact on state pension awards, in the Department for Work and Pensions annual report and accounts 2022-23 (HC 1455). The main cause of the issue was that NI numbers were not always recorded when customers claimed child benefit before 2000. The Government have estimated that around 210,000 individuals may have been affected by missing periods of home responsibilities protection.

HMRC and DWP are working together to correct cases as quickly as possible. HMRC started contacting potentially impacted customers from September 2023, prioritising those above state pension age. They aim to identify and contact the majority of individuals who may have been affected over the next 18 months so that those eligible receive any arrears payments as quickly as possible.

To correct this issue, potentially impacted customers will be invited to check their eligibility and make an application to HMRC for home responsibilities protection. To help individuals determine their eligibility, a self-identification tool is available on www.gov.uk. Where an application is successful, those with a state pension impact will have their award corrected and any arrears paid. HMRC and DWP will also trigger a wider communications campaign working with key stakeholders and representative bodies to ensure that all those who may be eligible are aware of this.

Before making an application, people can learn more about home responsibilities protection, check the eligibility criteria and find the application form online at www.gov.uk/home-responsibilities-protection-hrp/eligibility. Customers under state pension age can check their national insurance and state pension forecasts online at www.gov.uk/check-state-pension.

[HCWS255]

Draft Social Security (Contributions) (Limits and Thresholds, National Insurance Funds Payments and Extension of Veterans Relief) Regulations 2024 Draft Tax Credits, Child Benefit and Guardian's Allowance Up-rating Regulations 2024

Nigel Huddleston Excerpts

Wednesday 7th February 2024 General Committees

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Nigel Huddleston)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Social Security (Contributions) (Limits and Thresholds, National Insurance Funds Payments and Extension of Veterans Relief) Regulations 2024.

[The Chair]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the draft Tax Credits, Child Benefit and Guardian’s Allowance Up-rating Regulations 2024.

[Nigel Huddleston]

As always, Sir Charles, it is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship. The regulations will be of considerable benefit to our constituents who rely on tax credits, child benefit and guardian’s allowance, and to those who pay national insurance contributions. Regulations are made each year to set national insurance contributions thresholds and uprate tax credit, child benefit and guardian’s allowance.

First, the Social Security (Contributions) (Limits and Thresholds, National Insurance Funds Payments and Extension of Veterans Relief) Regulations 2024 set the national insurance contributions limits and thresholds of a number of national insurance contribution classes for the 2024-25 tax year, with all limits and thresholds remaining fixed at their existing level. The regulations also make provision for a Treasury grant to be paid, if required, into the national insurance fund for the same year—a transfer of wider Government funds to the national insurance fund—and for the veterans employer national insurance contributions relief to be extended for a year until April 2025. The scope of the regulations is limited to the 2024-25 tax year.

National insurance contributions are social security contributions. They allow people to make contributions when they are in work in order to receive contributory benefits when they are not working, such as after they have retired or if they become unemployed. NICs receipts fund contributory benefits, as well as supporting funding to the NHS.

On the details of the NICs for employed and self-employed people, the primary threshold and lower profit limits are the points at which employees and the self-employed start paying employee class 1 and self-employed class 4 national insurance contributions respectively. At the autumn statement 2022, the Government announced their intention to maintain the primary threshold’s alignment with the income tax personal allowance, with both rates being fixed at £12,570 until 2028.

Fixing the primary threshold at £12,570 does not affect an individual’s ability to build up entitlement towards contributory benefits such as the state pension. For employees, this is determined by the lower earnings limit—which will remain at £6,396 per annum, or £123 per week, in 2024-25—and for self-employed people by the small profits threshold, which will remain at £6,725 in 2024-25. Fixing the thresholds will mean that more lower-earning working people will gain entitlement to contributory benefits and build up qualifying years for their state pensions.

The upper earnings limit, which is the point at which the main rate of employee NICs drops to 2%, and the upper profits limit, which is the point at which the main rate of self-employed NICs drops to 2%, are aligned with the higher rate threshold for income tax, at £50,270 per annum. It was announced previously that those thresholds would be fixed until April 2028, as part of the Government’s commitment to supporting the public finances.

At the autumn statement 2023, the Government also announced that from 6 April 2024 self-employed people with profits above £12,570 will no longer be required to pay class 2 NICs, but will continue to accrue and receive access to contributory benefits, including the state pension. Those with profits between £6,725 and £12,570 will continue to get access to contributory benefits, including the state pension, through a national insurance credit, without paying NICs as they do currently. Those with profits under £6,725 who choose to pay class 2 NICs voluntarily to get access to contributory benefits, including the state pension, will continue to be able to do so.

I turn now to employers NICs. The secondary threshold is the point at which employers start paying employer national insurance contributions on their employees’ salaries. At the autumn statement 2022, the Chancellor announced that this threshold will remain at £9,100 in 2023-24 and will be fixed at this level until 2028. That supports the public finances while ensuring that the largest businesses pay the most. The employment allowance, which the Government raised from £4,000 to £5,000 in April 2022, means that the smallest 40% of businesses with employer national insurance contributions liability pay no employer NICs. The regulations also fix the thresholds for employers of employees eligible for NICs reliefs—the reliefs for employers of under-21s, under-25 apprentices, veterans, and new employees in freeports and investment zones—at their 2023-24 levels.

The majority of national insurance contributions are paid into the national insurance fund, which is used to pay the state pension and other contributory benefits. The Treasury has the ability to transfer funds from wider Government revenues into the national insurance fund. The regulations make provision for a transfer of this kind, known as a Treasury grant, so that up to 5% of forecasted annual benefit expenditure can be paid into the national insurance fund, if needed, in 2024-25. A similar provision will be made in respect of the Northern Ireland national insurance fund. The Government Actuary’s Department report laid alongside the regulations forecasts that a Treasury grant will not be required in 2024-25 but the Government consider it prudent, as a precautionary measure, to make a provision for a Treasury grant at this stage, which is consistent with previous years.

The regulations also make provision for the national insurance contributions relief for employers of veterans to be extended for a year until April 2025. This measure means that businesses pay no employer NICs—at a rate of 13.8%—on salaries up to the veterans upper secondary threshold of £50,270 for the first year of a qualifying veteran’s employment in a civilian role. The relief is part of the Government’s commitment to make the UK the best place in the world to be a veteran, and is intended to further incentivise employers to take advantage of the wide range of skills and experience that ex-military personnel offer. It supports those who have already given so much to this country, and helps to unleash the great skills and huge potential of our service leavers.

[Mrs Natalie Elphicke (Dover) (Con)]

The veterans relief that the Minister just mentioned is clearly very welcome, in addition to the other uprating of reliefs. Finding a route back into work for those who are rough sleeping or homeless is a particular issue for veterans. Will the Minister explain why the relief applies only to the first year of employment and whether any consideration has been given to assisting veterans on their return to work following their homelessness journey?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The Minister for Veterans’ Affairs has explained the wide variety of other measures that we have to support veterans. As I said, it is the Government’s ambition to make sure that we treat our veterans with incredible respect and that the UK is the best place in the world to be a veteran, so there are other measures in place. The relief measure was always intended to be temporary. It was announced as such, but we are now extending it. I cannot promise that further extensions will or will not be forthcoming—that would be for other decisions—but I think the whole Committee agrees with my hon. Friend’s wider point about respect for veterans.

I turn now to the draft Tax Credits, Child Benefit and Guardian’s Allowance Up-rating Regulations 2024. The Government are committed to delivering a welfare system that is fair for claimants and taxpayers while providing a strong safety net for those who need it the most. The regulations will ensure that the benefits for which His Majesty’s Treasury Ministers are responsible and that HM Revenue and Customs delivers are uprated by inflation in April 2024. Tax credits, child benefit and guardian’s allowance will increase in line with the consumer prices index, which had inflation at 6.7% in the year to September 2023. Uprating by the preceding September CPI is the Government’s typical approach.

To reject the regulations would mean that HMRC-administered benefits do not rise at all next year, making our constituents worse off. As usual, the Department for Work and Pensions led a separate debate in this place on the regulations for uprating other benefits and the state pension, for which the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions is responsible, on 31 January 2024. The DWP’s working-age benefits will also rise in line with the 6.7% CPI rate this year.

In summary, the proposed legislation fixes all the limits and thresholds for national insurance contributions at their 2023-24 levels for the 2024-25 tax year; makes provision for a Treasury grant; extends the NICs relief for employers of veterans; and increases the rates of tax credits, child benefit and guardian’s allowance in line with prices. The legislation enacts announcements from the autumn statement and previous fiscal events. Without it, HMRC will be unable to collect NICs receipts, and tax credits, child benefit and guardian’s allowance will be frozen at 2023-24 levels. I therefore hope that colleagues will join me in supporting the regulations.

--- Later in debate ---

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank my opposite number, the hon. Member for Ealing North, for his contribution, as well as my hon. Friend the Member for Dover. Perhaps we could at some point have regulations on reducing the length of the names of regulations, because we have all had a bit of a mouthful today.

The hon. Gentleman raised many points not strictly relevant to the scope of the regulations, and many points that we have rehashed often, but I will repeat that the reason why taxes have been higher is because of the significant amounts of support that we gladly handed out during the pandemic out of necessity, and also to support with the cost of living crisis that he mentioned. That was £350 billion-plus on the pandemic and a further £100 billion on cost of living challenges—about £3,700 per household—out of necessity, but we are now in a position where we can start to bring taxes down, which is what we did in the autumn statement. The OBR forecast that taxes as a percentage of GDP would fall by 0.7% as a result of the autumn statement changes, so taxes are clearly coming down now. Each fiscal event needs to be taken on its own, but the direction of travel is quite clear.

On the hon. Gentleman’s points about class 2, 3 and 4 contributions as set out in the relevant legislation, the Treasury has provided a report detailing the decisions not to make changes to class 2 and 3 rates and thresholds, and class 4 thresholds, for national insurance contributions for 2024-25. The decision was announced at the autumn statement and reflects the Government’s commitment to keeping taxes low to support working people to keep more of what they earn, as part of our plan to grow the economy. Class 2 rates will be maintained at 2023-24 levels for individuals to pay voluntarily to gain access to contributory benefits, as set out in the autumn statement.

The regulations ensure that tax credits, child benefit and guardian’s allowance increases are in line with September’s CPI rate, at 6.7%, thereby ensuring that those benefits keep their value in relation to prices. The NICs regulations set the limits and thresholds for the 2024-25 tax year, coming soon after the Government’s decision at the autumn statement to return money to taxpayers with a £9 billion tax cut. They allow for the collection of more than £170 billion of NICs to fund contributory benefits, including the state pension, and contribute to NHS funding. They are therefore vital to the livelihoods of all our constituents. I commend the regulations to the Committee.

Question put and agreed to.

Draft Tax Credits, Child Benefit and Guardian’s Allowance Up-rating Regulations 2024

Resolved,

That the Committee has considered the draft Tax Credits, Child Benefit and Guardian’s Allowance Up-rating Regulations 2024.—(Nigel Huddleston.)

Oral Answers to Questions

Nigel Huddleston Excerpts

Tuesday 6th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[Mr Clive Betts (Sheffield South East) (Lab)]

1. What recent steps he has taken to ensure fairness in the application of the tax system.

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Nigel Huddleston)]

Regarding fairness, we have a progressive tax system where the top 5% of income tax payers pay nearly half of all income tax, while the top 1% pay more than 28%. In addition, the national insurance reforms announced at the autumn statement cut taxes for 29 million people. That package also strengthens the fiscal position by helping taxpayers to get their taxes right, while bearing down on the small minority who seek to avoid paying their fair share.

[Mr Betts]

The Minister talks about tax cuts, but in April most households in this country will receive a 5% increase in their council tax. That is not because local councils have mismanaged their finances, but because after 13 years of austerity, the local government finance system is essentially broken and relies on a regressive and unfair council tax. Why in the autumn statement did the Chancellor freeze the budgets of the Department for Levelling Up, Housing and Communities for the whole of the next Parliament, leading the Office for Budget Responsibility to forecast a further £13 billion rise in council tax? Does that not show that the Chancellor has no regard at all for councils and the services they provide, or is he simply deferring a problem that his Government has created for the next Government to sort out?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I am afraid that is a ridiculous characterisation. We on this side of the House care, including about our vibrant, important local councils. That is precisely why they just received an additional £600 million, and future spending will be a matter for future fiscal events.

[James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con)]

I am a strong believer in fairness in taxation. Would my hon. Friend care to advise the House about who would bear the heaviest burden of taxation, should His Majesty’s Government choose to adopt the £28 billion spending commitment that the Labour party announced on the radio this morning?

[Nigel Huddleston]

My hon. Friend makes an important point. Of course, we never know from day to day exactly what Labour’s policy is, and I understand there are even differences among its Front Benchers at the moment, but we heard a firm commitment, without any promises at all about where the money would come from. We therefore know where it would come from: it would come out of taxpayers’ pockets or further borrowing, which is deferred taxation. Everybody will pay for it.

[Mr Speaker]

I call the shadow Minister.

[Darren Jones (Bristol North West) (Lab)]

The Labour party has set out clear proposals to close tax loopholes on non-doms, private schools and private equity to give a much-needed boost to our public services. Will the Treasury Minister confirm whether the Government have assessed, or plan to assess, the merits of such a policy?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I am pleased to hear the hon. Gentleman’s enthusiasm for closing down tax loopholes and going after the abusers. It begs the question why Labour did not vote in favour of the Finance Bill last night, which included measures along those lines.

[Darren Jones]

That is a short answer, but the answer to the wrong question—perhaps the Minister can have a second go. While he is thinking about the answer, I point out that the Comptroller and Auditor General has highlighted that the Government are wasting up to £28 billion a year on mismanaged procurement and governance of major projects. Does the Minister agree that the Conservative Chancellor and his predecessors have had to raise taxes so much partly because they are wasting so many billions of taxpayers’ money each and every year?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The reason we have had to raise taxes is £350 billion of support during the pandemic, which I did not hear the Opposition oppose, and an additional £100 billion to help people during the cost of living crisis, which I did not hear the Opposition oppose. We therefore had to increase taxes out of necessity, but we reduce them out of choice, which is exactly what we are doing. Labour increases taxes out of necessity and then continues to increase them out of choice.

[Michael Shanks (Rutherglen and Hamilton West) (Lab)]

2. If he will make an assessment of the impact of his Department’s tax policies on economic growth in Scotland during this Parliament.

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Nigel Huddleston)]

The Government remain committed to increasing economic growth in Scotland and right across the UK. As part of 110 growth measures in the autumn statement 2023, the Government introduced tax policies that are projected to stimulate economic growth in Scotland and across the country. That includes making full expensing permanent and the largest ever cut to employee and self-employed national insurance contributions, which means more people working.

[Michael Shanks]

The EY Independent Treasury Economic Model Club forecast published yesterday found that the UK’s growth forecast of 0.8% this year is only slightly outperformed by the even more disappointing 0.7% growth in Scotland. Given this Parliament has hiked taxes 25 times, and the Scottish National party now think that those on modest incomes in Scotland should pay even more tax, does the Minister agree that the people of Scotland are simply paying the price for two Governments with no economic credibility?

[Nigel Huddleston]

No, I do not agree. The hon. Member should be aware that the OECD suggests that in the coming years we will be growing faster than France, Italy and Germany. Of course, the Government have a strong track record against our OECD friends over the last 14 years, and Scotland benefits from this economic growth.

[Virginia Crosbie (Ynys Môn) (Con)]

As in Scotland, business rates are devolved in Wales. With business rates relief set to fall from 75% to 40%, businesses in Wales will pay almost twice as much as in England. Does my hon. Friend agree that the Welsh Labour Government should be supporting local businesses such as the Kinmel Arms in Moelfre and not increasing the number of Senedd Members by a staggering 60%?

[Nigel Huddleston]

My hon. Friend puts it well. Of course, we have seen the considerable protections and support given in retail, hospitality and leisure business rates relief in England. That has not been extended to the same extent in Wales, and Scotland failed to extend it as well. She makes an important point.

[Mr Speaker]

We go back to Scotland: I call the SNP spokesperson.

[Drew Hendry (Inverness, Nairn, Badenoch and Strathspey) (SNP)]

Contrary to what the Minister said, OECD forecasts show that the UK will have the lowest growth in the G20 and the highest inflation in the G7. Ministers like to pretend that there is no real cost of living crisis, but there is one, and it is biting hard. How long will Ministers—and their Labour counterparts—continue to peddle the fantasy that Brexit is somehow good for the Scottish people?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I am afraid that the thing that would most impoverish the people of Scotland is separation from the UK. After 16 years of SNP rule—longer than the Conservatives’ in England—GDP per head in Scotland is lower, productivity is falling, employment is lower and inactivity is higher. That is not exactly a proud record.

[Drew Hendry]

The Minister talks about GDP. The Office for Budget Responsibility forecast that GDP in the UK will be 4% lower in the long term due to Brexit. Meanwhile, independent Ireland in the EU is booming with a giant fiscal surplus. Given that the Tories, Labour and the Lib Dems are all now champions of Brexit, is it not the case that the only way for Scotland to rejoin the EU is through becoming an independent country?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The hon. Gentleman knows that the IMF has forecast us greater growth than France, Italy and Germany over the next few years. If he is so enthusiastic about supporting growth, including helping businesses across the United Kingdom, perhaps Scottish National party Members could have joined us in the voting Lobby last night instead of voting against, for example, full expensing and investment in research and development. They voted against that—how on earth is that in the interests of their constituents?

[Mrs Flick Drummond (Meon Valley) (Con)]

3. What fiscal steps his Department is taking to help increase the level of business investment.

--- Later in debate ---

[Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con)]

4. If he will make an assessment of the potential impact of the loan charge on levels of bankruptcy.

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Nigel Huddleston)]

I have heard the concerns expressed by hon. Members on the impact of the loan charge, and I have pushed His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs for firm assurances on the safeguards that it has in place. No one will be forced by HMRC to sell their main home or access their pension funds early to pay their loan charge debts, nor has HMRC petitioned for bankruptcy, which would be only a last resort and is in nobody’s interest. There is substantial support in place to help people in debt, including agreeing time-to-pay arrangements with them.

[Greg Smith]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that answer and his engagement with the loan charge and taxpayer fairness all-party parliamentary group, including a meeting this evening with its officers. In an internal document that surfaced as part of the 2019 Morse review, HMRC admitted to around 100 bankruptcies from the loan charge. Can the Minister tell the House why that figure has never been given publicly by HMRC, and what the figure is today?

[Nigel Huddleston]

Again, I thank my hon. Friend for championing this area and his great concern for the human stories behind the difficult circumstances resulting from some of these schemes. As I have said, I am constantly seeking reassurance from HMRC on this matter, and my understanding is that where bankruptcies have occurred, it has often been because of requirements outside of the loan charge, not from HMRC; indeed, some people have declared bankruptcy of their own volition. However, if my hon. Friend has evidence to the contrary, I would like to know about it.

[Tim Farron (Westmorland and Lonsdale) (LD)]

The original Treasury impact statement for the loan charge stated that it would have no material impact on

“family formation, stability or breakdown”,

yet there have been countless divorces, family break-ups, mental health breakdowns and bankruptcies, and at least 10 suicides. That impact statement was grossly wrong, but also surely negligent. We now need a full investigation, including how and why Parliament was so misled over the dangerous and unfair loan charge.

[Nigel Huddleston]

I hear the House’s concern about this issue, on which we had a debate not so long ago. Of course, the suicides the hon. Gentleman mentions concern us, and independent reviews have taken place. However, I want to provide the House and anybody listening with reassurance that the best thing to do if people have concerns is to engage with HMRC, because very generous and long-term plans can be put in place to help people to repay. As I said, there are fears out there—there is a bit of scaremongering—that homes are being taken over or people are having to give up pensions. That is not the case. Engagement with HMRC to establish reasonable time to pay would therefore be reassuring for many of the people who fear much worse consequences. My appeal is to engage with HMRC.

[James Murray (Ealing North) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Government’s approach to the loan charge has become a nightmare for ordinary people across the country who are the victims of mis-selling and facing financial ruin. The torment and devastating reality is the clearest possible proof that the Government need to think again. Those facing the loan charge ordeal cannot bear to hear yet again that the Morse review is the final word on this matter. Will the Minister finally agree today to commission a new, truly independent review?

[Nigel Huddleston]

We had an independent review in 2019 under Lord Morse. The Government accepted 19 of its 20 recommendations. The review has taken place, but as I have said repeatedly, I am challenging HMRC and listening to colleagues. If action needs to be taken, I will take it, but I do not believe that there is a case for another review, because we have already had one, and the Government have already taken action.

[Mr Laurence Robertson (Tewkesbury) (Con)]

5. What steps he is taking to help support homeowners with mortgages.

--- Later in debate ---

[Alan Brown (Kilmarnock and Loudoun) (SNP)]

9. Whether he has made a recent assessment of the potential merits of abolishing non-domiciled tax status.

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Nigel Huddleston)]

The Government want the UK to have a fair but internationally competitive tax system, designed to bring in talented individuals and investment that contributes to the growth of the economy. Non-doms play an important role in funding our public services through their tax contributions. They pay tax on their UK source income and gains in the same way as everyone else.

[Alan Brown]

The Minister talks of fairness, but the fact is that during the cost of living crisis nearly a million more struggling pensioners will start paying income tax, because of the freeze in personal allowance rates, while the Government protect some of the richest members of society through non-domicile status. Scrapping that status could bring the Treasury an extra £3 billion a year. Why do the Government not do the right thing and bring in that extra money to protect pensioners and the lowest paid?

[Nigel Huddleston]

Non-doms contributed about £8.5 billion in taxes in 2022, and have contributed to investment to the tune of £7 billion since 2012. The hon. Gentleman will be well aware that scrapping their status would not be risk-free in a world in which people can be quite mobile, and could damage the UK’s competitiveness. As for the need for other support, that is exactly why we have been reducing national insurance rates, for example.

[Rushanara Ali (Bethnal Green and Bow) (Lab)]

10. What recent assessment he has made of the potential impact of changes in mortgage interest rates during this Parliament on household disposable income.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Edward Leigh (Gainsborough) (Con)]

15. What fiscal steps his Department is taking to support small businesses.

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Nigel Huddleston)]

Small businesses are the engines that drive our economy and we support them to thrive using levers right across Government. Our small business rates relief means that one third of business properties in England already pay no business rates. We provide tax reliefs benefiting small and medium-sized enterprises, such as the annual investment allowance and employment allowance, and we support investment in SMEs through British Business Bank programmes and a variety of other support measures.

[Selaine Saxby]

What consideration has been given to reducing employer national insurance contributions to help small businesses to sustain employment following the record increase in the national living wage from April, particularly in the tourism and hospitality industries?

[Nigel Huddleston]

My hon. Friend and I have spoken about these policy areas on a number of occasions. In terms of supporting small businesses, the employment allowance enables businesses with employer national insurance contributions bills of £100,000 or less to claim up to £5,000 off those bills. That was increased in April 2022 from £4,000 to £5,000, so the smallest 40% of businesses have already been taken out of paying employer national insurance contributions, and many of those are in the hospitality and leisure sector. We always keep policies under review, and I know that my hon. Friend will always be lobbying on this issue.

[Sir Edward Leigh]

Becoming an entrepreneur in this country has become increasingly purgatorial over the past 25 years. Does the Minister agree that what small businessmen want is not more handouts and allowances from the Government but lower, simpler and flatter taxes, and less regulation not more? They want the Government to get off their backs and shove off.

[Nigel Huddleston]

That was very interestingly put by my right hon. Friend. I completely agree with his instincts, though, and those instincts are completely shared on the Conservative Benches. When we are able to reduce tax and release the entrepreneurial spirit, independence and innovation that exist right across the UK, the country thrives and all of us thrive.

[Sir Stephen Timms (East Ham) (Lab)]

In 2020, the former Chancellor set a public sector net investment target of 3% of GDP, but that was abandoned after the 2022 debacle and today we have the second lowest business investment among advanced economies, partly because of that failure on public sector net investment. Can the Minister offer us any reassurance on the future trajectory of public sector net investment?

[Nigel Huddleston]

Of course, Labour left us in pretty terrible financial circumstances back in 2010. Instead its figure is up £28 billion in real terms at the start of the next Parliament, an increase of 40% in real terms or 7% annually—the biggest ever published.

[Debbie Abrahams (Oldham East and Saddleworth) (Lab)]

Small businesses are the backbone of our economy, but they have a constant problem with late payments, which increased by 7% last year, and that is driving many of them into insolvency. Given that the Government are a major contractor, what are they doing through project bank accounts to reduce the impact of late payments?

[Nigel Huddleston]

The hon. Lady makes an important point, and I know there is agreement on this issue across the Chamber. We made statements last year along those lines, putting particular pressure on the public sector. I am sure there will be continuing pressure on the private sector, too.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con)]

14. What steps his Department is taking to support growth in the financial services sector.

--- Later in debate ---

[Rebecca Long Bailey (Salford and Eccles) (Lab)]

T2. Many of my constituents whose lives have been destroyed by the loan charge scandal feel the central injustice is that the Government are focused on pursuing the victims rather than the companies responsible. They were dismayed to read recent allegations that individuals linked to such companies have donated hundreds of thousands of pounds to the Conservative party. Will the Chancellor confirm why exactly the Government are ignoring the providers and operators of the schemes? How many have been prosecuted specifically for their involvement in disguised remuneration, and not for other misdemeanours?

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Nigel Huddleston)]

Eighty-five per cent of the funds recovered from the loan charge so far—about £3.9 billion in total—have come from the employees, therefore those who were running those schemes, so the hon. Lady is mischaracterising where we have gone so far. There has been one criminal conviction so far; others are in place. I repeat what I said to the Opposition spokesman, the hon. Member for Ealing North (James Murray), earlier: if they were that concerned about ensuring we go after the wrongdoers, they would have voted with us last night in the Finance Bill.

[Sir Desmond Swayne (New Forest West) (Con)]

T9.   At the meeting this evening, will the Financial Secretary review the injustice that prevents loan charge victims who have engaged with His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs, but who cannot agree with their assessment, having any access to a tribunal?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I know my right hon. Friend has been campaigning on the issue. I respect and appreciate the information he has provided, and his contributions to the debate. I assure him that I am in listening mode and looking forward to the meeting this evening, because I want to ensure that I hold HMRC to account to make sure everyone involved is treated fairly and respectfully.

[Caroline Lucas (Brighton, Pavilion) (Green)]

T3. Last week, the International Monetary Fund joined many others in urging the Chancellor to prioritise public spending and investment above tax cuts. Rather than seeking to appease his Back Benchers with tax cuts in the next Budget, will he finally deliver the level of public investment this country is crying out for, including in a nationwide energy efficiency programme that would shield households from volatile gas prices, get their fuel bills down for the long term and create jobs? Or is he yet another one who is running scared of green investment?

--- Later in debate ---

[Helen Morgan (North Shropshire) (LD)]

T6. Business owners and high street businesses in Oswestry told me that their biggest challenge is business rates. In his upcoming Budget, will the Chancellor consider a radical reform of business rates that puts the high street on an even keel and on a level playing field with the online retailers?

[Nigel Huddleston]

Over the past few years, we have helped to support our high streets by freezing multipliers and, importantly, targeting further relief at the retail, hospitality and leisure sector. Frequent revaluations are now par for the course, because of the recent changes we have made.

[Richard Fuller (North East Bedfordshire) (Con)]

Last July, following a debanking scandal, I wrote to the Economic Secretary to the Treasury about the risks of implementing so-called diversity, equity and inclusion policies. Far from being inclusive, their implementation has often been divisive, yet Labour put such policies at the heart of its financing and growth strategy just last week. Will my hon. Friend assure us that he will give clear direction to the Prudential Regulation Authority and the Financial Conduct Authority to avoid all the risks of so-called DEI policies?

Finance Bill

Nigel Huddleston Excerpts

Report stage
Monday 5th February 2024 Commons Chamber

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Nigel Huddleston)]

I beg to move, That the clause be read a Second time.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Roger Gale)]

With this it will be convenient to discuss the following:

New clause 1—Review of effectiveness of section 31 measures in preventing fraud involving taxpayers’ money—

“(1) The Chancellor of the Exchequer must, within three months of this Act being passed, conduct a review of the effectiveness of the provisions of section 31 in preventing fraud involving taxpayers’ money.

(2) The review must evaluate the effectiveness of the provisions of section 31 in preventing fraud involving taxpayers’ money through comparison with the effectiveness of—

(a) other measures that seek to prevent fraud involving taxpayers’ money, and

(b) the approach taken in other countries.”

This new clause would require the Chancellor to review the effectiveness of measures in this Act to prevent fraud involving taxpayers’ money, and to compare them with other measures that seek to prevent fraud involving taxpayers’ money and the approach taken in other countries.

New clause 2—Review of reliefs for research and development—

“(1) The Chancellor of the Exchequer must, within three months of this Act being passed, publish a review of the implementation costs of the measures in section 2 incurred by—

(a) HMRC, and

(b) businesses.

(2) The review under subsection (1) must include details of the implementation costs of all measures related to credit or relief for research and development that have been introduced since December 2019.”

This new clause would require the Chancellor to publish a review setting out the total implementation costs of all changes to research and development reliefs in the current Parliament.

New clause 3—Review of measures to tackle evasion and avoidance—

“(1) The Chancellor of the Exchequer must, within three months of this Act being passed, publish a review of the measures in sections 31 to 33 to tackle evasion and avoidance.

(2) The review under subsection (1) must include details of—

(a) the average sentence handed down in each of the last five years for the offences listed in section 31;

(b) the range of sentences handed down in each of the last five years for the offences listed in section 31;

(c) the number of stop notices issued in each of the last five years to which the measures in section 33 would apply; an

(d) the estimated impact on revenue collected in each of the next five financial years resulting from the introduction of the measures in sections 31 to 33.”

This new clause would require the Chancellor to publish details of the sentences given and stop notices issued in each of the last five years to tackle evasion and avoidance, as well as the revenue expected to be generated from the measures to tackle evasion and avoidance in this Act in each of the next five years.

New clause 4—Review of public health, inequality and poverty effects of Act—

“(1) The Chancellor of the Exchequer must review the public health, inequality and poverty effects of the provisions of this Act and lay a report of that review before the House of Commons within six months of the passing of this Act.

(2) The review must consider—

((a) the effects of the provisions of this Act on the levels of relative and absolute poverty across the UK including devolved nations and regions,

((b) the effects of the provisions of this Act on socioeconomic inequalities, and on population groups with protected characteristics as defined by the 2010 Equality Act, across the UK including devolved nations and regions,

((c) the effects of the provisions of this Act on life expectancy and healthy life expectancy across the UK including devolved nations and regions, and

(d) the implications for the public finances of the public health and NHS effects of the provisions of this Act.”

New clause 6—Assessment of the impact of permanent full expensing—

“(1) The Chancellor of the Exchequer must, within six months of this Act being passed, publish an assessment of the impact of the measures in clause 1 of this Act on—

(a) business investment, and

(b) economic growth.

(2) The review under subsection (1) must—

((a) assess the impact of full expensing being made permanent, and

(b) consider what other policies would support the effectiveness of the measures in clause 1 of this Act.”

This new clause would require the Chancellor to publish an assessment of the impact on investment and growth of the measures in this Act to make full expensing permanent, and to consider what other policies could support the effectiveness of permanent full expensing.

New clause 7—Review of multipliers used to calculate higher rates of air passenger duty—

“(1) The Chancellor of the Exchequer must, at the next fiscal event, publish a review of the multipliers used to calculate higher rates of air passenger duty for each destination band.

(2) This review must propose options for introducing a multiplier to link the higher rate and the reduced rate within the domestic band.

(3) The Chancellor must, at the next fiscal event, make clear what changes, if any, he will implement as a result of this review.”

This new clause would require the Chancellor to publish a review of the multipliers used to calculate the higher rates of air passenger duty, and to propose options for introducing a multiplier to link the higher rate and the reduced rate within the domestic band.

Government amendments 1 to 6.

[Nigel Huddleston]

The Government’s aim is to grow the economy for the good of everyone, and our tax system is a key part of that. For households, higher taxes mean less financial freedom and less choice in how they spend their money. For businesses, they can mean less growth and investment, and that means fewer jobs for workers. That is why we need to grow our economy to create jobs and give ourselves the financial headroom to reduce taxes and remove the barriers to private sector investment. We must have a tax system that is supportive of business.

At spring Budget 2023, the Chancellor set out his approach for a highly competitive business tax regime. By announcing generous tax incentives combined with a rate of corporation tax that remains the lowest in the G7, the Government ensured that the UK is one of the best places in the world for businesses to grow and invest, but we should not be satisfied with simply being one of the best. This Bill therefore marks our next step in making the UK the best place in the world to do business.

We are taking huge, ambitious steps to make that a reality in the autumn statement and in the Bill. For example, no other major economy has made full expensing permanent. That is a major step in encouraging more investment by giving a huge tax relief to those who invest. Alongside that, we have introduced a generous new regime for research and development carried out by companies. We are now going further to encourage even more investment by introducing new clause 5, which will exempt receipts from new electricity generating projects from the electricity generator levy.

I will address each amendment in turn, looking first at the details of new clause 5. The electricity generator levy was introduced following the energy crisis to ensure that energy companies with extraordinary returns contribute more towards vital public services and support for households. However, we must balance that against ensuring that the UK remains a brilliant place to invest in renewables. The new clause makes changes to the EGL that will exempt receipts from new electricity generating projects from the levy. It will ensure that all generators in scope of the levy will benefit from the exemption if they choose to proceed with investments in new generation capacity and make a substantive decision to go ahead with a project on or after 22 November 2023—the date of the autumn statement. That will help support continued investment in the UK’s renewable generation capacity by removing new investments from the tax and providing businesses with the confidence to make such new investments.

I turn to Government amendments 1 to 3. To ensure that the research and development tax relief clauses in the Bill work as intended, the Government are proposing technical amendments to the R&D clauses. The Bill introduces a new enhanced support for R&D-intensive small and medium-sized enterprises, such as those in our vital life sciences sector. From April 2024, the R&D intensity threshold will be reduced from 40% to 30%.

Amendments 1 and 2 make changes to ensure that R&D-intensive companies get the relief as intended. Amendment 1 removes two situations where a company would appear less R&D-intensive than it actually is. These issues were raised with us by an industry stakeholder, for which I am grateful. To avoid abuse and to protect the scheme for genuinely R&D-intensive companies, the ratio is worked out at a group level. Currently in the legislation, companies within groups that charge each other for services could have costs double counted and therefore reduce their R&D intensity. The amendment will fix that. The Government do not want to exclude companies from relief because of legitimate commercial arrangements that do not affect the underlying true R&D intensity of the business.

On top of providing more support for R&D-intensive companies, the Bill will simplify and improve our R&D reliefs by merging the R&D SMEs scheme with the R&D expenditure credit. To ensure that those clauses work as intended, the Government propose technical amendments to the R&D clauses. Companies and accountants wanted the merged scheme to be implemented on an accountancy period basis as that makes claims simpler and delays the merged scheme for the majority of current R&D expenditure credit claimants. It therefore gives them a bit more time to prepare.

The new rules for contracted-out R&D will ensure that the company making the decision to do the R&D and bearing the risk is the one that gets the relief. However, that means that, as currently drafted, there could be temporary situations when two companies are in a contractual relationship and one moves into the new R&D tax credit system ahead of the other. For a limited period of time, that could result in situations where both parties could claim on the same R&D or neither could claim, as was raised by stakeholders. Amendment 3 ensures that the legislation works as intended. For temporary double claims, the R&D credit will go to the claimant in the old system until both have started new accounting periods. To avoid a temporary gap where no company can claim, the legislation will be amended to ensure that subcontractors can claim where their customer is still in the old system.

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[Mr Deputy Speaker (Sir Roger Gale)]

I call the Minister.

[Nigel Huddleston]

Thank you, Mr Deputy Speaker. May I join you, Mr Speaker and the whole House in wishing His Majesty a speedy recovery following the announcement this evening?

I wish to thank right hon. and hon. Members for contributing to this debate. I shall respond to as many of the points as I can, and also talk to the amendments that have been moved. On new clause 1, I agree that we must prevent fraud and ensure that all taxpayers pay their fair share. To help achieve that, the new maximum sentences for the most egregious examples of tax fraud, the new criminal offence on the promoters of tax avoidance, and enhanced director disqualification powers will come into force on Royal Assent of this Bill. That will all help.

At 4.8% of total liabilities, the UK’s tax gap is at the joint lowest rate ever recorded and has remained low and stable. The UK’s tax gap compares favourably with that of our international partners. HMRC has already published performance updates that provide information on its compliance performance every quarter, so we believe that this new clause is not necessary.

New clause 2 is pretty much the same as the new clause 1 rejected in Committee of the whole House. As I have said previously, we believe that the provision is unnecessary, as the information has been published in the tax information and impact notes alongside each policy change. That gives a clear explanation of the policy objective together with details of the implementation costs for both HMRC and businesses.

New clause 3 would require the Government to publish details of sentences given and stop notices issued to tackle evasion and avoidance in the past five years, as well as revenue expected to be generated by measures in this Bill to tackle evasion and avoidance in each of the next five years. However, HMRC publishes information on the number of custodial sentences received for tax compliance offences and the average sentence length in its annual reports and accounts. The 2023-24 annual report and accounts will be published this summer, providing a full overview of HMRC’s performance. The Government also publish a list of tax avoidance schemes subject to a stop notice on gov.uk, with the most recent report published on 7 December. HMRC has issued more than 20 stop notices since issuing the first one in 2022. The Government also published revenue estimates for the next five years of the clauses in this Bill in the tax information and impact notes. Therefore, as the information requested by new clause 3 is publicly available in routine HMRC publications, the publication requested by new clause 3 is unnecessary.

New clause 4 would require the Government to report on the likely impact of the measures in the Bill on public health, inequality and poverty—matters that concern us all and that we discussed in Committee. Existing mechanisms already effectively monitor and assess Government policies in those areas, rendering the amendment redundant. Departments such as the Department of Health and Social Care and its arm’s length bodies diligently evaluate policies to enhance health up and down the country. Through the Office for Health Improvement and Disparities and the National Institute for Health and Care Research, they address health inequalities and provide robust evidence for policy development. Various Government units, such as the Cabinet Office equality hub, contribute to levelling-up opportunities and ensuring fairness. The Government Equalities Office, the Race Disparity Unit, the Disability Unit and the Social Mobility Commission all focus on different equality dimensions to guide and support inclusive policy development across the country. We therefore do not believe that new clause 4 is necessary.

On new clause 6, I agree that it is important to regularly review and evaluate policy, and to be transparent, which my right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham (John Redwood) also highlighted. His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs has published a tax information and impact note setting out the impact of the measure, including the economic impact, and the Office for Budget Responsibility has already conducted and published extensive analysis on the investment and growth impact of full expensing. That is available in its “Economic and fiscal outlook—November 2023”, which therefore negates the need to publish a separate assessment in six months’ time. The impact of permanent full expensing will be monitored through information collected from tax returns, and through regular communication with businesses and representative bodies.

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[Jim Shannon]

The Minister knows that I am particularly fond of him, but if he has heard my request before, let us now have action.

[Nigel Huddleston]

We always try to act; I cannot do everything, though. I note the hon. Gentleman’s comments. In a similar vein, my hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Anthony Mangnall) raised the importance more broadly of the tourism, hospitality and leisure sector, and of the creative sector. He is absolutely right. Measures in the Bill and elsewhere will support all those sectors. Of course, business rates relief is vital to the tourism, retail, hospitality and leisure sector. My right hon. Friend the Member for Wokingham made a range of comments, some outside of my direct remit. I assure him that I will raise his points, which ranged from bonds to public sector efficiency—a vital area—with colleagues in the Department.

I was somewhat entertained by the comments of the Labour spokesman, the hon. Member for Ealing North, who was effectively asking me to commit to Conservative party policies as enthusiastically as he does, which is quite a turn up for the books. Of course, we welcome Labour’s support for the policies that we have announced, but there is clear blue water between the Labour party and the Conservative party in terms of principles about the size and scale of Government and the level of taxation. We have seen Labour’s flip-flopping over the £28 billion. I am not sure what the policy is today. It was rather rich of him to ask for commitments from me, given the flip-flopping that is so prevalent in every area of Labour policy.

At one point, the Labour party was supportive of Brexit. Now I do not know. Are Labour Members against it? Were they supportive of the right hon. Member for Islington North (Jeremy Corbyn) being Prime Minister, or do they not want him in the party? Are they in favour of nationalisation, or against it? Are they in favour of private sector involvement in the NHS, or against it? In a whole host of policy areas, we have seen persistent, perennial flip-flopping from the Opposition. I literally have goldfish whose commitments I would trust more than those from the Labour Front Bench. On those points, we will have to respectfully agree to disagree.

As I said, new clause 5 and the six amendments that the Government have tabled will help to ensure that the changes in the Bill apply as intended, and deliver a vital policy to protect renewable investment. They will make the tax environment more easily understood by business and protect vital tax revenue used to fund our public services. I therefore urge that they be added to the Bill. The six new clauses tabled by the Opposition seek to get the Government to publish data and information that is already being published through other sources, as I have outlined. I therefore urge the House to reject them.

Question put and agreed to.

New clause 5 accordingly read a Second time, and added to the Bill.

New Clause 6

Assessment of the impact of permanent full expensing

“(1) The Chancellor of the Exchequer must, within six months of this Act being passed, publish an assessment of the impact of the measures in clause 1 of this Act on—

(a) business investment, and

(b) economic growth.

(2) The review under subsection (1) must—

(a) assess the impact of full expensing being made permanent, and

(b) consider what other policies would support the effectiveness of the measures in clause 1 of this Act.”—(James Murray.)

This new clause would require the Chancellor to publish an assessment of the impact on investment and growth of the measures in this Act to make full expensing permanent, and to consider what other policies could support the effectiveness of permanent full expensing.

Brought up, and read the First time.

Question put, That the clause be read a Second time.

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[Nigel Huddleston]

I beg to move, That the Bill be now read the Third time.

This Government are backing British business, supporting employment, and creating a simpler and fairer tax system. My right hon. Friend the Chancellor delivered an autumn statement with the clear intention of strengthening the economy, now and for the future. This Finance Bill, which Members of the House have had the opportunity to scrutinise and debate over the past few months, does exactly that. It takes forward important tax measures to help businesses invest for less; encourages innovation and supports our creative industries by elevating rates and simplifying credits; and improves and simplifies our tax system to ensure it remains fit for purpose.

Mr Deputy Speaker, allow me to remind Members of the Bill’s key aims. Our first aim is to support British industry, so that we can solidify our position as world leaders in key sectors. Making full expensing permanent allows UK businesses to invest for less. We have moved to make the UK’s plant and machinery capital allowances the most generous of any major economy. Permanent full expensing has been called the single most transformational thing we could do for investment, and it was welcomed by more than 200 companies and trade associations.

The Bill also merges two significant Government schemes: the SME scheme and the R&D expenditure scheme. In doing that, we are meeting our aim of simplifying the system while providing greater support to British businesses, so that they can spend less time on administration and more time on innovation. The Bill also introduces greater support for loss-making R&D-intensive SMEs and lowers the intensity threshold required to access that support to 30%, helping around 5,000 extra SMEs. To further support investment in renewable energy, we have introduced a new assets exemption for the electricity generator levy, a measure that will continue to drive growth in both our renewables sector and the wider economy. We also continue to support our world-leading creative industries with tax measures that reform the film, TV and video game tax reliefs, turning them into refundable expenditure credits that are easier for business.

Our second aim is to support employment. We must remove barriers to work and incentives to not work, and most of all, must ensure that hard work and expertise are rewarded. That is why the Bill makes changes to encourage people to stay in work and use their expertise for longer. The Bill will complete the abolition of the lifetime allowance, amending pension tax rules so that employees with valuable, hard-earned expertise are no longer encouraged to reduce their hours or retire early. The Office for Budget Responsibility estimates that this will retain 15,000 workers annually, keeping many high-skilled employees and experienced individuals in our labour market while ensuring that they receive their rightful benefits for working.

Our third aim is to create a simpler, fairer and more modern tax system—an aim that the Bill also supports. Making full expensing permanent is a huge simplification for larger firms, but we are a nation of millions of small businesses. In the Bill, we are expanding the cash basis—a simplified way for over 4 million smaller and growing traders to calculate their profits and pay their income tax. While we remain focused on reducing the tax burden, we cannot overstate the role of tax in supporting public services, so we must all do our part. Everyone must pay their fair share, which is why the Bill introduces a new criminal offence for those who promote tax avoidance schemes and continue to promote them after receiving a stop notice. Alongside this, His Majesty’s Revenue and Customs will for the first time be able to bring disqualification action against the directors of companies involved in promoting tax avoidance, including those who control or exercise influence over a company. These are vital steps in ensuring that the system is fair for all, and that those who try to undermine it face the consequences.

I thank right hon. and hon. Members from across the House for their helpful and insightful contributions to the debate on the Bill. I also thank the many stakeholders who have provided their views on the issues raised, the Treasury, HMRC officials and House Clerks who have helped the Bill to get to this point. This Bill backs British business, rewards hard work, nurtures innovation, and supports our leading industries while solidifying long-term economic growth. For those reasons, I commend it to the House.

Hospitality Sector: Fiscal Support

Nigel Huddleston Excerpts

Wednesday 31st January 2024 Westminster Hall

[The Financial Secretary to the Treasury (Nigel Huddleston)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship today, Ms Bardell. I congratulate the hon. Member for Stirling (Alyn Smith) on securing the debate, and thank everybody who has contributed. Everyone contributed in a very constructive manner—until a few minutes ago. Many hon. Members graciously commented on my previous role. As tourism Minister, I had the real pleasure of visiting the vast majority of their constituencies, and it has been fantastic to have a tour of the UK today. We have heard about the fantastic hospitality, tourism and leisure offerings in everybody’s constituencies, including some absolute gems that make us very proud of this industry.

The hospitality and leisure sector is formidable. Definitions can sometimes be difficult; sometimes when people use the term “hospitality”, they are just talking about pubs, bars and restaurant, but we are thinking more broadly about the tourism, hospitality and leisure offering. To respond to the hon. Member for Ealing North (James Murray), I can say that we engage with the sector all the time. Just yesterday, many of us attended the UKHospitality reception, at which the formidable Kate Nicolls articulated the sector’s asks very well. We hear them all the time, and we are always listening to ideas.

[Wera Hobhouse]

The Minister mentioned a range of hospitality businesses. Will the Government please look at ensuring the survival of struggling businesses such as small music venues, which will close if they do not get the support they need?

[Nigel Huddleston]

In this debate we have heard an ongoing request for simplification in recognition of these challenging times—we did, of course, spend £350 billion on the pandemic—and a series of requests for additional relief here, there and everywhere. Everybody recognises—the Welsh and Scottish Governments are also struggling with this—that financial times are tight and that every single one of those requests comes at a cost: either other people would pay more tax or spending would be reduced somewhere else.

We absolutely hear the requests, but as my hon. Friend the Member for St Austell and Newquay (Steve Double) pointed out, over the past few years—certainly during the pandemic—the Government have recognised how vital the sector is and have been absolutely committed to it. It rightly received the immense support that it needed during the pandemic, including through the culture recovery fund to help music and heritage. So many sectors contribute to our tourism and hospitality offering. If we had not made those interventions during the pandemic, many businesses that are here today would otherwise not be. Ongoing asks during the period of recovery, when we need to start paying back that £350 billion, are very difficult because there would be massive consequences for taxpayers and the whole of the economy. I understand the challenges, but I think everybody recognises that every one of those asks comes at a cost.

[Tim Farron]

We obviously have to be careful with the nation’s finances and act within the envelope available to us, but what does the Minister make of the fact that UKinbound, Cumbria Tourism and others say that a variation of VAT levels would be of net benefit to the Treasury? Has he analysed those assessments? I am sure he has met those outfits personally.

[Nigel Huddleston]

I suspect I could spend the whole of this debate answering Members’ questions rather than going through my speech, much to the chagrin of my officials. Again, I understand the request. Many hon. Members pointed out that I was the one making these requests to the Treasury not so very long ago, for all the reasons they outlined, but we all recognise that we have to find the balance.

The point about dynamic modelling is really important. I will come on to VAT in a moment, but we must recognise that one of the biggest challenges of all requests for VAT relief is whether it will be passed on. There is not a 100% fantastic record of that happening in the hospitality and tourism sector or across the board, for understandable reasons. Cash flow was key during the pandemic, so not everybody was able to pass on the VAT reductions. When it comes to future requests for VAT reductions, we must be absolutely confident that they will be passed on, and that applies to multiple sectors.

[Mr Ellwood]

The Minister is being very generous in giving way. My right hon. Friend the Member for Witham (Priti Patel) mentioned the forthcoming Budget. Is there anything the Minister can tease us with? Can we look forward to anything in the Budget to support the hospitality industry?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I do love it when former Ministers try to tempt me in that way, knowing full well what the answer will be. What I can say is that we are listening.

I have gone off script for the past few minutes to try to respond to hon. Members, who have spoken eloquently and with real consideration of the challenges with their asks. There are no easy answers, given the challenging financial services. I and the other Treasury Ministers, and certainly the Chancellor and the Prime Minister, are always listening. We are always open to listening to evidence-based information. In that context, I cannot make any hints or promises about what may be in the upcoming Budget, but I can say that the view and opinion of the hospitality sector, especially as embodied by talented people such as Kate Nicholls at UKHospitality, and many others right across the UK, is valued. The sector used to be incredibly fragmented, and therefore did not have the voice it has now. Now, the sector comes in with credible, decent asks that need to be assessed with evidence. The voice of the hospitality sector has never been stronger in Government. I applaud all the lobbyists and groups for doing that.

[Priti Patel]

The Minister mentioned UKHospitality and Kate Nicholls and the way they have come together. Clearly, there are problems with labour markets in the hospitality sector, and there have been for many years—it is not a new phenomenon. What are the barriers to UKHospitality and the Treasury working together to create a labour market strategy for the hospitality sector?

[Nigel Huddleston]

Again, these are ongoing conversations across multiple Government Departments. In my former capacity as tourism Minister, I certainly had extensive conversations. There were sub-working groups at UKHospitality identifying areas for further work. That has had some impact, including through apprenticeship schemes. My right hon. Friend was absolutely right to highlight this issue. We have debated Brexit, which probably goes slightly beyond the current remit, although I understand the impact—and, by the way, the opportunities that come from that. My right hon. Friend is right that we need to focus on the domestic skills agenda. The hospitality and leisure sector contributes to one in five new jobs, so it is absolutely pivotal to that.

If hon. Members will forgive me, I will try to get through some of my speech—and not try your patience too much, Ms Bardell—because I am not even on page 1 yet.

[Hannah Bardell (in the Chair)]

Just to clarify, the Minister has a little bit of flexibility. Given the extent of the debate and the number of questions, he is free to go over the 10 minutes and answer everyone’s questions—as he would like.

[Nigel Huddleston]

I will make sure I leave a minute or two at the end for the hon. Member for Stirling to conclude—I may have shot myself in the foot there by giving everybody the opportunity to ask all the awkward questions they now have.

Like many hon. Members, my first job was in the hospitality and leisure sector, with a travel agent. I then had the very difficult choice at the age of 22 between taking a job for Arthur Andersen and becoming a Club 18-30 rep. I wonder if my life might have been considerably different if I had taken that slightly different path. My right hon. Friend the Member for Witham is right: jobs in the hospitality and leisure sector help people with numeracy skills, self-confidence and interpersonal skills, which can stay with them for life.

We need to recognise that this sector is not just about part-time jobs for students or young people; we should not forget that there are also valuable, often very high-paying, long-term careers in the sector. The sector has evolved and changed, and is now a major contributor to the UK economy, with £140 billion of economic activity. There are masses of opportunities there, but the reputation and image of the sector is sometimes one of its inhibitors. I am therefore a huge champion of the sector for all the reasons we have outlined.

We have had quite a lot of debate today about the various support measures, including business rate relief. It is worth remembering that the Government provided £16 billion of business rate relief in England through the pandemic. In addition, we launched the temporary 50% retail, hospitality and leisure relief scheme at the 2021 Budget. That was built on in the 2022 autumn statement, and the Government announced further tax cuts to the sector in last year’s autumn statement—about £4.3 billion over the next five years—and extended the retail, hospitality and leisure relief scheme at 75% up to a cash cap of £110,000 per business for 2024-25.

As has been recognised, the Labour Government in Wales and the SNP Government in Scotland were not able to extend those reliefs. I recognise that everybody realises there are considerable financial pressures, but with the greatest respect to my opposite numbers, who have been somewhat critical, I do think this is important and it is something I will play up very heavily: we have done things in England, where we have controlled the levers, that have not been done in Wales and Scotland.

Overall, this tax cut is worth about £2.4 billion for around 230,000 retail, hospitality and leisure properties to continue support for our vital high streets and protect so many small shops and businesses. The Government have also decided to freeze the small business multiplier for the fourth consecutive year. That will protect over a million rate payers and 90% of all properties from a multiplier increase.

For example, as a result of the changes, the average independent pub will receive about £11,800 of relief off their final business rates bill in 2024-25. Combined with the small business multiplier being frozen, they will benefit to the tune of about £12,800 of support. I repeat: that is not the level of support that they would get in Scotland or Wales.

A few points were raised about other areas, and I remind hon. Members that reliefs are also available for improvements in property. If there is an incremental rateable value because of improvements, that will not be included for the first year where eligible. I also remind hon. Members about the changes in alcohol duty and the Brexit pubs guarantee, which are designed to support the pubs sector and to help it operate on a level playing field with supermarkets.

My right hon. Friend the Member for Witham (Priti Patel) made many points about skills and jobs. I will not repeat what I said, because I think I have made the point that we are very aware of the importance of that sector and the role we have in developing skills and opportunities.

Cutting VAT was mentioned by nearly everybody, and I want to be clear on this point. As we all know, VAT is a major contributor to the nation’s finances, which we then spend on our vital public services. It is forecast to raise about £173 billion in 2023-24. Since we left the EU, we have been taking advantage of multiple reliefs. I believe that if we were to rank ourselves against all other EU countries for the total number of reliefs we are able to exercise through VAT, we would be about second or third. We have been taking advantage of leaving by reducing reliefs and making real differences where and when we can.

The VAT cut for tourism and hospitality that we made during the pandemic came at a significant cost of more than £8 billion. Reintroducing it would come at a considerable cost. That was just one element of the support for the retail, hospitality and leisure sector during the pandemic, but it was a really important part of it.

[Anthony Mangnall]

I thank the Minister for that response; it is very helpful to get an understanding of what the costs would be around VAT. Was any modelling done of what would have happened if we had not made that cut and what the impact would have been in terms of lost businesses and rising unemployment numbers? Could those models be produced or published, so that we can make that comparison in Parliament?

[Nigel Huddleston]

Various pieces of internal and external analysis have been released. We all know anecdotally from experiences in our constituencies that it literally did save businesses around the country. As I said, the Treasury keep tax policy under review all the time—that is a mantra, but it is true. The message I want to get across to colleagues today is that this will not be an easy choice. I understand the asks and we understand the impact, and there are various points of modelling, but it would not be an easy option. I repeat the caution that pass-through is vital when it comes to VAT relief. That did not happen wholly last time, but I understand why, as some of it was cash flow.

[Mr Ellwood]

Everybody understands the passion with which the Minister is pushing this. I do hope, as I teased last time, that he is having private conversations with the Treasury and making the mathematical case very clear. A business that closes does not pay any VAT at all. A business that thrives because VAT has been reduced somewhat can then pay more corporation tax. That is the mathematical formula that we would like to see, which I think has been presented by UKHospitality, and which justifies reducing VAT to 10% in the hospitality sector.

[Nigel Huddleston]

My right hon. Friend makes a logical point. I assure him that I am listening, but I am not making any promises.

I will refer to a couple of other areas that hon. Members mentioned. I appreciate the tone adopted by the hon. Member for Stirling. He recognised that there are things that the sector is requesting and looking for that Scotland, Wales and other countries are not able to deliver. That does not mean that any of us are not sympathetic; it is about the balance of the support package that we need to deliver. Like many today, he commented on both business rates and VAT.

My hon. Friend the Member for St Austell and Newquay has one of the most beautiful constituencies in the country, but also, as he said, one of those that is most reliant on this sector. He raised a variety of points, and he and I have had ongoing conversations about this subject, because he is such a champion of it. His point about the ongoing efforts to make sure that we get more inbound tourists outside London is pivotal. There are various opportunities and measures: VisitEngland, VisitBritain, VisitScotland, VisitWales, Discover Ireland and Discover Northern Ireland all do a fantastic job of helping to support and enable that tourism, plus there is a key role for our transport system.

My hon. Friend is right, however, that about 50% of all inbound tourism spend is within the M25. That is great, and we are not saying that that should be less; we are saying that we want it to be “London plus”. That is a key part of the tourism strategy, and I assure my hon. Friend that we are talking about this on an ongoing basis with DCMS and the Tourism Minister.

The hon. Member for York Central (Rachael Maskell) highlighted issues in her fantastic constituency, which I have had the pleasure of visiting on multiple occasions. She highlighted the importance of heritage in the tourism and hospitality ecosystem, and also mentioned flooding. She may or may not be aware that there are opportunities for businesses that are severely impacted by flooding under what is called a “material change in circumstances”. Working with the valuation office, there are opportunities to see, on a case-by-case basis, whether some relief is available. She might want to see whether some of the businesses impacted could consider that, as well as other support measures that we have provided for those impacted by flooding.

My hon. Friend the Member for Totnes (Anthony Mangnall) raised multiple points. He highlighted the upside of some of the trade deals that we are doing, so his constituency is now probably going to be flooded by Australian barmen and barwomen over the next few years. That is not necessarily a bad thing; I wonder whether they are better cocktail waiters and waitresses than he was.

My hon. Friend also raised the important point that, although the headline rates of VAT in some of our European friends’ countries may be lower, there is often a sting in the tail of quite considerable—startlingly high, in some cases—tourism tax, sometimes at a very local level. There is not a huge amount of evidence to suggest that that works either. There is always a balance, and although something may look like a beneficial tax rate system, one only has to scratch beneath the surface to find that there is something a bit more to it.

[Anthony Mangnall]

The Minister is giving a comprehensive answer to all the points raised in the debate. I re-emphasise the point that, if he is worried about the £8 billion figure that was quoted as a cost for when we reduce VAT by 15%, he could get around that not only by using UKHospitality’s data, but by tiering it and doing a 2% reduction over a five-year period. I hope that would at least comfort the bean counters in the Treasury and reassure UKHospitality that we are going in the right direction.

[Nigel Huddleston]

I am yet to see the beans being counted, although I am sure that it happens somewhere. My hon. Friend is building on a very clear message that I have received from right hon. and hon. Members today.

The hon. Member for Westmorland and Lonsdale (Tim Farron) and I have had ongoing conversations over multiple years. I do not doubt his passion and support for the sector, or how important the sector is for his constituents. He was right to raise the issue of holiday lettings. I understand that he is disappointed with some of the measures that we have brought in, although some of those measures will make a real difference, including the ability to charge more for some rental properties. All I can say is that we are well aware of some of the additional lobbying for proposed changes and, again, that we are always open to further ideas.

[Tim Farron]

Although we need labour from outside, we also need to be able to grow our own talent domestically; that is the specific thing that will make a difference. The real problem is the collapse of residential properties for long-term occupation. The answer to that is a separate category of planning use for short-term lets and a separate category for second homes. Will his Government choose to do either of those things? They promised to do at least the first one.

[Nigel Huddleston]

All I can say to the hon. Gentleman is that we are listening. Some measures are being put in place that local authorities will have powers to implement, but I understand that a lot of people are not happy with the situation. I completely understand the challenges at a local level, particularly when it comes to employment and the unaffordable cost of housing in many parts of the country, as many Members have mentioned.

[Rachael Maskell]

In my speech I mentioned the extension of covid loans for businesses that have those loans. What is the Treasury’s view on extending them so that investment can be made in those businesses elsewhere?

[Nigel Huddleston]

I cannot comment on any further changes, but there has been some flexibility with covid loans, as we have announced. This is important. Of course, we want those covid loans to be paid back, but that needs to be done over a period of time that is sustainable for businesses. This is in the context of the overall support, including the comments that I made about business rates relief and other things for the retail, hospitality and leisure sector. We are aware that the sector was hit so hard by the pandemic and is still in the process of recovering—it is recovering remarkably strongly, but it is not out of the danger zone yet.

[Steve Double]

Will the Minister give way?

[Steve Double]

On the housing issue, one thing that the Treasury could do is level the tax playing field on the tax breaks between short-term holiday lets and residential properties. That would make a significant difference and would really help. Perhaps the Minister will take that message back.

[Nigel Huddleston]

I thank my hon. Friend and others for their input today. I will briefly comment on a couple of more items before I close, Ms Bardell. The hon. Member for Bath (Wera Hobhouse), which is another beautiful constituency that I visit frequently, raised a range of issues, including the importance of the environment in the tourism eco-system and environmentally sensitive tourism. I think we will respectfully disagree on the efforts being made by the Government on decarbonising and so on. I think we have a very proud record. I recognise that there is a debate in this area, but her broader points about the contribution of tourism to the environment and the importance of sustainability are important.

The hon. Member for Ochil and South Perthshire (John Nicolson) raised a range of issues, and I will present to him the challenge that I also presented to my opposite number, the hon. Member for Ealing North. The hon. Member for Ochil and South Perthshire made a comment about tax cuts just for the rich and wealthy, but that is so far from reality that I will have to respectfully disagree with him. If he does not believe that we are giving tax cuts to everybody—as I said, the national insurance cuts that we made were for 27 million people— I will present him with the same challenge: let us look at his pay packet for this month and see whether the contribution is lower than December’s. If he does not believe that it is lower, with respect, why does he not give that money to charity or back to the Government? It is important that we recognise that the national insurance cuts are meaningful for 27 million people, including many people on low incomes. That is far from the characterisation of saying that these are tax cuts for the wealthy. We have a laser focus on making sure that the low-paid benefit from such tax cuts.

[John Nicolson]

I am sure the Minister will have heard me: I specifically referred to cuts in inheritance tax. That is what I raised in my speech. If he would like to tell us that that is a red herring and that no such cuts are intended, I would be delighted to hear it.

[Nigel Huddleston]

No such cuts have been made. As I said, the hon. Member’s point was speculation and that is not anything I can comment on today.

Ms Bardell, thank you for your patience. I thank everyone for their contributions. All points have been taken on board, and I thank hon. Members for their passion for the sector.