Armed Forces (Prevention of Discrimination) Bill

Mark Francois Excerpts

Friday 1st February 2013 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his kind words earlier and also for his reference to the book, which was written by the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, my hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison), who is sitting on the Front Bench next to me. I am delighted to reassure the hon. Gentleman that I was present at my hon. Friend’s book launch and purchased a copy of the book from my own perhaps not quite so deep pockets. It is a very good read.

[Thomas Docherty]

I am grateful for that, and I am reassured that the right hon. Gentleman used his own money to purchase the book and did not borrow the £15 from his ministerial colleague.

As the book sets out, there have been some ridiculous examples, such as the one, when somebody in their uniform who had been at a Remembrance day service was refused service by Harrods. The Under-Secretary subsequently visited the store after a bit of a campaign in which he had been involved, and thankfully Harrods has changed its policy. I am sure, Mr Deputy Speaker, that in your own constituency and others you are aware of incidents where, regrettably, members of the armed forces have been refused service on rare occasions.

The report contains allegations that banks and building societies have turned down mortgage applications from armed forces personnel, and they have been unable to get mobile phones. I am conscious of hon. Members’ comments on previous occasions about narrowly defining Bills, so on this occasion I have not put such incidents into the Bill, but when the Minister responds I hope he will consider how widespread the problem is. The Ministry of Defence may wish to use a report mechanism to provide greater clarity on it.

I want to focus on the even more abhorrent incidents, which, thankfully, are relatively rare, but do occur, of verbal and physical abuse of members of our armed forces. No one present today and no one watching our proceedings would not condemn unequivocally the actions of a mindless tiny minority who when, for example, the coffins returned from theatre felt the need to hurl abuse and intimidate those who had gathered to pay their respects. I know that the Minister takes that very seriously.

The report also contains accounts of an RAF recruiter who reported that she had regularly faced verbal abuse. People had apparently called her a baby killer, which I am sure the House would find utterly despicable. It is such incidents that the Bill seeks to address, as well as physical assaults. I am clear, as I am sure is the House, that we are not talking about where soldiers, sailors or RAF personnel get into a fight as any other person might, but where they have been subject to an assault because of the fact that they are either in or out of uniform.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

It is a pleasure to follow the hon. Member for Wrexham (Ian Lucas) and I commend the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife (Thomas Docherty) for bringing this Bill before the House and giving us the opportunity to discuss what we all instinctively agree is an important subject. I also pay tribute to his knowledgeable service on the Defence Committee. He mentioned the important work of the Armed Forces Bill Committee. That led to the Armed Forces Act 2011—to which I shall refer in a few minutes—which enshrined the key principles of the armed forces covenant in law. I believe that we all did the right thing in that Act, and as I shall outline in my speech, it provides us with additional powers that may come in handy in responding to this Bill.

In a debate of this kind, which is rightfully conducted in a non-partisan spirit, it is important to make clear at the outset where we agree, as well as where we might differ. I think I speak for the whole House in saying that we all hold the same view about discrimination against members of the armed forces: it is a completely unacceptable form of behaviour towards the men and women who have committed themselves to defending this country, its people and its way of life—to defending us and our families. In doing so they make sacrifices and give up freedoms that their fellow citizens perhaps sometimes take for granted. Those who discriminate against service personnel, or against other members of the wider armed forces community, succeed only in diminishing themselves. In this House we can debate the best way of combating discrimination, but there is no dispute about the objective.

Discrimination can take many forms. Some of it is thoughtless or uninformed, for example, when public services fail to take account of the special circumstances in which armed forces personnel find themselves. Some of it is based on myth and prejudice—a view that soldiers create trouble or are unreliable customers. Like the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife, I do not believe that that is normally the case, but we have to accept that some people have that misperception and we must challenge it. Some discrimination or abuse stems from genuine hostility to members of the armed forces, motivated by politics or perhaps by some unfortunate personal experience. It is on that very narrow part of the spectrum that the Bill principally focuses.

The Bill would have the effect of amending section 146 of the Criminal Justice Act 2003, which lays down circumstances in which the criminal courts must treat an offence as aggravated, for the purpose of deciding on the appropriate sentence. The aggravating factors currently set out in section 146 are that the offender either demonstrates, or is motivated by, a hostility towards the victim which is based on the victim’s disability, sexual orientation or transgender identity. Section 145 of that Act is also relevant, as it allows for an offence to be “racially or religiously aggravated” when a sentence is decided.

This Bill would add a further characteristic, so that the offence is aggravated if the offender’s hostility is based on the victim “being a service person”. The subsection on the meaning of a “service person” refers across to section 343B of the Armed Forces Act 2006, which was added by the Armed Forces Act 2011 and relates to the armed forces covenant. The definition in subsection (1) of section 343B is pertinent. It states:

“service people means—

(a) members of the regular forces and the reserve forces;

(b) members of British overseas territory forces who are subject to service law;

(c) former members of any of Her Majesty’s forces who are ordinarily resident in the United Kingdom; and

(d) relevant family members.”

[Mr Nuttall]

My right hon. Friend did not mention cadets in that list. I am not sure if any guidance has been given on whether cadets would be covered by that definition, but does he think they would be?

[Mr Francois]

That is a good question. My understanding is that cadets would not ordinarily be covered per se, but they might be covered if they were a family member of a service person. We could be making law here, so it is important to understand the technicalities of the drafting. I hope that the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife will understand that we have taken his Bill seriously and we have looked very carefully at the legal effect of what he proposes.

[James Duddridge]

I apologise if my right hon. Friend has already covered this issue, but I would like to ask about the many uniformed armed personnel who are not British citizens; I think of American soldiers and service personnel based in this country. They are used to wearing service uniform and being easily identified as servicemen in America, but they may also wish to receive the same protections in the UK as this Bill proposes for our own servicemen. Are they also covered?

[Mr Francois]

I must confess that in preparing for this debate I had not looked at that question. My instinctive answer is that they would not be, because the Bill relates mainly to UK service personnel.

[Thomas Docherty]

indicated assent.

[Mr Francois]

I see that the hon. Gentleman is nodding, so I hope I have that right.

Further on in section 343B, subsection (4) gives the meaning of the term “relevant family member”, but effectively allows the Secretary of State to interpret it as best fits the context. The Bill, however, replaces that discretion, for this purpose, by specifying that it should cover “any relative”. If I have understood the hon. Gentleman’s intentions correctly—I hope I have—he wishes the new provision to cover a large group of people, including all former members of the armed forces and all relatives of current or former service personnel. Offences against them would be treated more seriously, if motivated by hostility to service people.

[Thomas Docherty]

Perhaps I can assist the Minister. He will be aware, from the examples cited, that the types of occasions concerned are those such as remembrance services and funerals. That is why the Bill is so framed. He was right to highlight it, but there have been regrettable incidents at such occasions.

[Mr Francois]

Again, I can follow the hon. Gentleman’s thinking, but as I will explain it could present practical difficulties, if the Bill was passed, including for the courts. If he will allow me, I shall explain—clearly, I hope—why they might be.

We need to be clear about what the Bill will not do. Over the years, there have been reports of incidents in which hostility has been directed against service personnel because of their membership of the armed forces. Some of the actions of anti-war demonstrators, for example, fall into this category and have been widely and rightly condemned. The hon. Gentleman mentioned a protest at the homecoming parade of 1st Battalion the Royal Anglian Regiment. As that was my old regiment, I feel that particularly strongly, as he can imagine.

Those incidents should not be confused, however, with situations such as a refusal to admit members of the armed forces to a hotel or bar. These, too, have led to widespread public indignation, but it is important to recognise that the Bill does not address those situations, because they generally do not involve a criminal offence.

[Thomas Docherty]

indicated assent.

[Mr Francois]

The hon. Gentleman nods in assent.

I recognise what the hon. Gentleman is trying to do, and I have no difficulty in principle with the signal he wants Parliament to send—that offences motivated by hostility to the armed forces are serious offences—but I have considerable practical difficulty with how he proposes to send that signal. In effect, I believe that the law of unintended consequences would apply, and I will explain why in a moment.

As a general rule, before we go down the route of new legislation, we must consider whether there is a need for it. The answer in this case is, on balance, no. The courts already have a wide power in sentencing to take into account factors that make conduct more serious. Criminal acts based on an irrational hostility to a person because he or she is in the armed forces will, if anything, often lead to a higher sentence anyway.

[Mark Tami (Alyn and Deeside) (Lab)]

Does the Minister not accept that we need to send a clear message to people that such acts will be treated very severely?

[Mr Francois]

As I said, I can understand the signal that the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife is trying to send, but if we are talking about changing the law of the land, we need to look at the practical effect, including on the courts. I am trying to walk the House through what might be the practical effect in the courtroom. If the hon. Member for Alyn and Deeside (Mark Tami) will bear with me, I shall attempt to develop that point.

I am aware of no evidence of courts finding that they have insufficient powers to give an appropriate sentence to an offender in this regard. I am not aware that we have received representations from the courts asking us to amend the law in this way.

In contrast, converting the flexibility that the courts currently exercise into a mandatory requirement—which is what the Bill says—would present them with practical difficulties. For example, in demonstrating to a court that the aggravating factor was present and should apply, the prosecution would need to show that the hostility was present. Perhaps that would be relatively straightforward in the case of a soldier in uniform, but the Bill as drafted extends the same protection to those not in uniform, which might be more difficult to prove. As we have seen, this provision also includes the families of service personnel and our veteran community—all 4.6 million of them, or about one in 10 of the adult population of this country.

Under the Bill as drafted, the court would presumably have to decide whether the offender was aware of that fact and whether it motivated the effect. The court might need to establish whether a victim was a relative—“any relative”—of a member of the armed forces. How are the courts to deal with a situation where an offence is motivated by excessive rivalry between different sections of the armed forces or, perhaps, a domestic dispute? A mandatory requirement for a higher sentence reduces the courts’ ability to take a sensible, common-sense approach to what is really going on in the circumstances they are examining.

[Thomas Docherty]

I regret that the Minister and I are slightly diverging in our perspectives. My concern is that some of these arguments could well have been used by civil servants who were sceptical about the provisions in the Criminal Justice Act 2003 dealing with relatives and how someone knows that someone else is gay. The Minister is a wise individual with a great deal of common sense. He knows what we are talking about, even if his civil servants do not necessarily know, and I am confident that if he was on a jury, he would know what he was looking at.

[Mr Francois]

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s vote of confidence in that respect. It is kind of him. The point I am making is that his Bill would mandate the courts. My argument is that the courts already have sufficient power to increase sentences if they believe that such sentiments are an aggravating factor, but can make that choice at their own discretion. It is not as though the courts could not do that without the Bill. They already can; it is just that the Bill would mandate them to do so, which might lead to some practical difficulties.

It is also worth pointing out that there is a fundamental difference between offences provoked by hostility to the work of the victim and offences motivated by prejudice against the inherent characteristics of the victim, such as homophobic crime. Section 146 of the 2003 Act is designed to help to change deep-rooted prejudices. It would be quite wrong to suggest that such provisions were necessary in relation to the armed forces, because I do not believe that such deep-seated prejudices necessarily apply.

I have not yet mentioned what I regard as the most telling argument against the Bill: the views of the intended beneficiaries. I am not aware of any general desire in the armed forces community for legislation of this type and it has certainly never been proposed to me by any of the chiefs of staff. The servicemen and women who wear their uniforms with pride want to be respected in their communities and to be considered part of those communities, and rightly so. We should not necessarily put them in a position where they are forced to explain why they require protection in law in a way that is not enjoyed by, for example, firemen or ambulance staff. It is a firm principle of the armed forces covenant that special provision for service people may be appropriate in some cases, but I am not necessarily convinced at this stage that the way the hon. Gentleman has drafted his Bill would achieve the desired effect.

Finally, we have to recognise that the criminal law is a devolved matter. The hon. Gentleman is aware that this is a difficult area—in fairness to him, the Bill clearly states that, as drafted, it extends to England and Wales only, so he is definitely cognisant of that—but the Bill opens the way to a situation where offences against members of the armed services could be handled differently across the UK. We have no interest in creating further anomalies of this kind. I have no doubt that the Scottish Parliament would be as firm as Westminster in its views on discrimination, but we also need to acknowledge and recognise that the question is perhaps not as straightforward when seen from the perspective of Belfast. The introduction of a provision similar to the one we are discussing today could, practically, be quite problematic in Northern Ireland under certain circumstances.

In pointing out the problems with the Bill, I would not wish the House to draw the conclusion that the Government are complacent or that we are doing nothing to counter discrimination against service personnel—quite the opposite. The armed forces covenant and the principles that we enshrined in statute in 2011 have a high profile across the whole of Whitehall and beyond. The first principle, that members of the armed forces community should not suffer disadvantage as a result of that membership, has given rise to many initiatives that are making a real, practical difference.

In the first statutory annual report on the armed forces covenant, published in December 2012, we described what we were doing to make those principles a reality. Let me give the House some examples. We are working to remove the disadvantage that the children of service personnel can face in the schools system as a result of their mobility, through the admissions code and through the service pupil premium. We have been consulting on the disadvantages faced by reservists in the workplace. We are ensuring that service personnel and leavers encounter a level playing field in access to social housing or Government-funded home ownership schemes.

At the same time, we are working to build the links between the armed forces community and the wider community, to improve the knowledge and understanding that must be at the centre of that relationship. From knowledge flows the esteem for our servicemen and women that is ultimately the most powerful way to counter discrimination. The community covenant has now been signed in over 230 local authority areas from Cornwall to the north of Scotland, signifying a real determination to strengthen ties with the armed forces. I am confident that, during the year, it will continue to gain further support. The grant scheme linked to the community covenant has allowed us to back a range of schemes that will help to put those declarations into practice. To that, we can now add the £35 million fund created as a result of the LIBOR fines, which will support charities with projects to help the armed forces and their families.

In giving the Bill careful consideration, I hope that the hon. Member for Dunfermline and West Fife will not mind me pointing out that it is not an entirely new proposal. That fact was highlighted earlier by my hon. Friend and constituency neighbour, the Member for Rochford and Southend East (James Duddridge). It is always good to see him in his place in the House of Commons. Something very similar was proposed by the then Member for Grantham and Stamford, now Lord Davies of Stamford, in his “Report of Inquiry into National Recognition of the Armed Forces” in 2008. The hon. Member for Wrexham said that he could not quite remember the details of the report, so I shall refresh his memory. On page 6, in the chapter on “Increasing Visibility”, the then Member for Grantham and Stamford said:

“We further recommend that the Home Office, Crown Prosecution Service and Ministry of Justice consider issuing guidance respectively to the Police, Prosecutors and Judiciary to the effect that where victims of violence or threats of violence are persons in military uniform, those offences should be considered aggravated by that fact.”

The Labour Government of the day responded to that report a few months later, in the name of the right hon. Member for Coventry North East (Mr Ainsworth). By then, of course, the author of the report had become a Defence Minister. Nevertheless, the Government’s response to the recommendation I have just referred to was very clear. It stated:

“We are confident…that Service personnel are properly protected against criminal offences by the criminal law as it stands.”

It went on to state that

“we do not think that a change in the law is necessary or appropriate.”

Given that robust response, I had expected the Opposition to take the same view of the Bill as we do.

[James Duddridge]

I had previously held the noble Lord Davies of Stamford in high regard, but I reassessed that because I felt that he had moved from this side of the House to the other side for reasons of naked opportunism. Is my right hon. Friend correcting me, and saying that it was not naked opportunism but related to his services to—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Francois]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that intervention. Lord Davies might have changed parties, but I will leave it to others to decide whether he has changed his mind.

Across the country, attitudes to our armed forces are positive and healthy. That is not only a good thing in itself; it is also an important contributor to morale. We should not underestimate the strength that our servicemen and women draw in doing their very difficult job from the knowledge that they have the respect and backing of their fellow citizens. They deserve it, and they earn it; we do not need to enlist the help of the criminal courts in order to engender respect for our armed forces.

[Thomas Docherty]

Will the Minister give way again?

[Mr Francois]

I am about to conclude, but I will give way briefly if the hon. Gentleman wants me to.

[Thomas Docherty]

Very briefly, is this an issue that the Minister will look at in the coming armed forces covenant report, and will he consider reporting back to the House on it?

[Mr Francois]

The hon. Gentleman pre-empts me. I was about to say that as a result of the Armed Forces Act 2011, we have a new vehicle at our disposal in the form of an annual report to Parliament—effectively a report on the state of the armed forces covenant. As I have already mentioned, we produced the first report in December last year. I acknowledge that it does not refer in detail to the issues we have been debating this afternoon. Given the concerns expressed, however, I can see the case for monitoring developments in this area, and for including any findings in the next report at the end of 2013. The focus of the annual report on the removal of disadvantage as one of the key covenant principles gives us sufficient latitude to do so. I sense no will in the House to object to our being able to achieve that.

On that basis, I hope that the hon. Gentleman will accept that my caution about the law of unintended consequences does not diminish in any way my respect for what he is trying to achieve. On the understanding that we will most definitely look at this issue in the context of the armed forces covenant report, I hope he will consider withdrawing his Bill.

Military Justice System

Mark Francois Excerpts

Thursday 31st January 2013 Westminster Hall

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

It is a pleasure to serve under your chairmanship this afternoon, Mr Dobbin. I start by congratulating the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) on securing this important debate. It is testimony to her determination to raise the profile of the issues under examination today, and I know that she takes these matters seriously. She kindly said that I do as well, and I hope that in my remarks over the next few minutes, I will be able to persuade her and the rest of the Chamber that I intend to continue taking this issue seriously.

Our armed forces can be asked to deploy anywhere in the world, often in unstable areas. That kind of agility and reach, coupled with the professionalism that is their hallmark, requires the highest standards of discipline. In order to enforce those standards, they are subject to a justice system that, although encompassing the key tenets of the UK criminal justice system, is, to some extent, separate and distinct from it. That point was made clearly by my hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart), who brings to bear in this debate his personal experience as the commanding officer of a regular infantry battalion—and a very good battalion at that.

The system that we have in place reflects both the unique role of the armed forces and the environment in which they live and work. It recognises offences specific to the armed forces and calls to account those who are found, after a proper investigation, to have fallen short of the high standards that we rightfully expect. The Armed Forces Act 2006 drew together the disciplinary systems of the three services, so that all service personnel are dealt with under a common system. Acknowledging that our armed forces train and operate in some countries with legal systems unlike our own, the service justice system applies a single code, based on our own criminal laws, transportable anywhere in the world.

Separate from the service justice system, but acting in parallel with it, is the distinct service complaints process. That has been a matter of considerable discussion this afternoon, and was raised by my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth North (Penny Mordaunt), the hon. Members for Chippenham (Duncan Hames), for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) and for West Dunbartonshire (Gemma Doyle) as well as the hon. Member for Bridgend. The Service Complaints Commissioner, Dr Susan Atkins, and her staff act as an independent starting point for personnel who want to make a complaint but are concerned about how their chain of command might deal with it. In addition, they provide independent oversight of how the complaints system is working and report back to Ministers and Parliament. In cases of bullying, harassment or discrimination, the MOD is obliged by law to update the commissioner on progress with allegations that she has referred to the chain of command for investigation.

I have great respect for the role of the commissioner and recognise the enormous benefits that we have derived from Dr Atkins’s unique, independent position. I met Dr Atkins before Christmas and will do so again in March. We are actively engaging with her to determine what further resources, including staff, we can offer to assist her in carrying out her important work. One thing that we will discuss in March is the expected benefits of the changes that we have just made this month to speed up the administration of the complaints system—changes that I believe will have a real effect in 2013. For instance, we are encouraging greater use of informal means of resolution, and stressing to commanding officers the importance of getting to grips with complaints early to maintain unit cohesion and, ultimately, operational effectiveness.

In addition, we have also provided a formalised avenue for the Service Complaints Commissioner to approach commanding officers directly, so that if she feels that a complaint has not been dealt with with sufficient alacrity, she can now formally approach the relevant commanding officer and raise that personally with that CO, in order to allow that to progress. To some degree—to be as complete as possible—that already happened in some cases informally, but we wanted to formalise it to make it clearer that the SCC had that right in just about all cases. She—and she can be quite a feisty lady, I have to say—can now go to a CO directly, bang the table and say, “You’ve not dealt with this in the way you should have done”, or “You’ve not dealt with it quickly enough.” By that method, she can accelerate the process.

As I say, we have just brought in those reforms. They have literally just begun, but we believe that they will help to speed up the process. Where there have been delays, we hope that the changes will help to reduce them significantly in 2013.

[Penny Mordaunt]

Will the Minister give way?

[Mr Francois]

I gladly give way to Sub-Lieutenant Mordaunt.

[Penny Mordaunt]

I thank the Minister for giving way. That is excellent news, and from the cases that I have been dealing with, I know that it will help greatly, so that is a good thing. Will the SCC also have similar powers if she spots trends with less serious complaints, such as admin, or something that can easily be rectified? Can she speak directly to someone who could rectify that situation?

[Mr Francois]

My understanding is that the SCC can go directly to a commanding officer about any complaint. She can use her discretion. Whether she would want to go to the CO about every single matter is an issue of balance, and a judgment for the commissioner herself, but she has the formal right to do so if she wishes. If, for some reason, a relatively minor complaint has been—to use a colloquialism—gummed up in the system for some time, she would have the option to go straight to the CO in the unit and say, “Do what you can to speed it up, please.” In our discussions in March, I am hoping to review those matters and take stock of how the new system has been operating in the first three months or so. We believe that it will help to speed up the process materially.

The hon. Member for Bridgend kindly acknowledged that she and I met in early January to discuss sexual offences involving service personnel. I trust that she left that meeting in the MOD with no doubts whatever about how seriously I take her concerns.

[Mrs Moon]

indicated assent.

[Mr Francois]

The hon. Lady is kind enough to nod her assent. Sexual offences of any kind are not to be tolerated anywhere in the Ministry of Defence. When reported, they are dealt with by specially trained investigators conversant with modern techniques in identifying offences, evidence gathering, forensics, and crime scene management. To support victims of such crimes, service police are able to draw on specialist civilian facilities such as sexual assault referral centres when they believe that may be appropriate. A number of safeguards are in place to ensure that investigations are handled properly and professionally. Allegations of serious sexual offences must be reported to the service police, who act independently of the chain of command, as we have heard, and answer to their service provost marshal.

If sufficient evidence is found to charge an individual with one of those offences, the case must be referred to the Director of Service Prosecutions, currently a civilian QC, who carries out his functions under the general superintendence of the Attorney-General rather than the Ministry of Defence. He decides whether charges should be brought, which is a process that mirrors the relationship between the civilian police and the Crown Prosecution Service. In essence, it is the same principle.

In the United Kingdom, members of the armed forces are subject to both service and civilian criminal jurisdiction. Broadly—I make the point broadly—offences that have a civilian context are dealt with in the civilian jurisdiction. Service police would generally lead an investigation only if both suspect and victim are serving members of the armed forces. Servicemen and women are entitled to report offences either to service or civilian police.

As the hon. Lady is aware—we have discussed this at some length, I think it is fair to say—there is therefore no single, consolidated set of statistics relating to sexual offences involving members of the armed forces, and there are considerable practical obstacles to producing such a comprehensive overall report. Let me give an example of why that is. A service man or woman who suffered a sexual assault might have suffered it while on leave in their home town and reported it to their local, Home Office police force, rather than to the service police, particularly if the alleged perpetrator was a civilian, not a member of the armed forces. The point that I am making is that it is difficult, with the data that we have available, to provide an overall and comprehensive report.

However, against the background that I have set out, I have been pressing my Department hard to produce the most accurate information possible. That work is still in hand. It is complex, and given the seriousness of the subject, we must be thorough, but the initial trends suggest that incidents of sexual offences in the armed forces are declining. That work needs time to mature; it will not be finished tomorrow night. I therefore say in all seriousness to the hon. Lady, before she beats her well trodden path to the Table Office, that it would be helpful if she could allow us to evolve that work. In return, I give her a sincere assurance that as the work matures, I will write to her to update her on its progress, and of course, in accordance with convention, I will then place a copy of that letter in the Library of the House.

If hon. Members consult the annual reports published by the Service Complaints Commissioner, they will see that the total number of complaints about sexual harassment has fallen year on year since 2008. That is reflected in the most recent armed forces continuous attitude survey, which shows a recent decrease in the number of respondents who believe that they have been subject to discrimination, harassment or bullying.

For the avoidance of doubt, let me say that of course even one occurrence is too many, but it is vital that the reputations of the massive majority of our outstanding servicemen and women are not tarnished by the actions of a few. None the less, my Department will continue to be proactive in raising awareness of the standards of behaviour that we expect and in tackling offences across the whole spectrum. I am pleased to report that positive steps are being taken across the services. I shall choose one example from each.

The Army’s Speak Out campaign informs Army personnel of the bullying, harassment and discrimination helpline. The Army has established that confidential helpline to allow service personnel who believe that they may be victims of that to report it. The Army also has a poster campaign that targets sexual offenders and reassures victims. We have consulted local authorities that are leaders in that field, and the hon. Member for Bridgend was shown some examples of that work when she came to visit me in the Ministry of Defence.

The RAF has in place mandatory equality and diversity training, designed with the Chartered Institute of Personnel and Development, and is planning to conduct a sexual harassment survey in mid-2013. The Royal Navy police have conducted an internal communications campaign aimed at raising awareness of sexual offending. Reducing sexual offending also features as an area of priority in the RNP’s annual strategic assessment.

Further to impress on the Department the importance that I attach to this issue, I have convened a meeting of the provost marshals of the three single services to discuss how best we can continue to ensure that these offences are recorded, investigated and then thoroughly pursued. In essence, I will speak to the head of each of the three service police forces so that we can discuss this in detail.

In addition, I spoke yesterday on precisely this issue to the principal personnel officers for the three services: the Second Sea Lord, in the case of the Royal Navy; the Adjutant-General, in the case of the Army; and the Air Member for Personnel, in the case of the Royal Air Force. It is very clear that we are all of the same mind—that this kind of behaviour is unacceptable and must be challenged head-on. I will be discussing this issue further with the three principal personnel officers in the near future.

As I said at the outset, I believe that the hon. Lady and, I hope, other hon. Members who have participated in this debate accept that my Department takes the issues under discussion very seriously. The hon. Lady should be in no doubt: we are not complacent and we are taking steps to expose and eradicate behaviour that has no place in an institution with such an outstanding heritage and reputation.

The right hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire—sorry, I mean the hon. Lady; it is only a matter of time—asked whether we had considered the possibility of empowering a body such as the Independent Police Complaints Commission, or an equivalent, to take a role in overseeing the work of the service police. As she may be aware, there is already a protocol, which has been signed by the three provost marshals, which says that if one of those police services needs to be investigated, in the first instance one of the other service police forces will conduct that investigation, in the way that one civilian Home Office police force might be asked to investigate another if there is a serious matter to be looked into. That protocol, as I understand it, is already in existence and in operation.

The hon. Lady’s question was whether we would go further and ask the IPCC to have an overall role. That is a slightly complex question, and I will explain why. Let us say that it was to be given that responsibility. As I understand it, under current legislation the IPCC has no remit in Germany, so if, for instance, it was asked to investigate the work of one of the service police forces there, it would not, at the moment, have the power to do that. The point I am making is that it is not an absolutely straightforward choice. However, I can tell the hon. Lady that work is under way to consider that possibility. No decisions have yet been taken, but giving the IPCC such a role is something that we are in the middle of considering at the moment, although we have not yet reached a conclusion, partly for some of the reasons that I have just given. I hope that that deals with her question.

As I have said, changes will be made this month—in fact, they have already been made—to give the Service Complaints Commissioner better oversight of delays in handling complaints and their causes. That will also give those who approach her, I hope, even greater confidence that she can have a positive impact. The single services have put in place a number of measures both to deter potential offenders and to encourage victims to speak out. I will get the chance to judge the impact of that for myself as I talk to our servicemen and women up and down the country and overseas. In my role as the Minister for defence personnel, welfare and veterans, I try to travel as much as I can, practically, to visit our servicemen and women, and that will be something that I will have my ears open for.

Specifically on sexual offences, we will continue to provide the right training and resources to those who investigate and prosecute these abhorrent crimes and best support those who have been subjected to them. We ask an awful lot of our servicemen and women. We expect them to adhere to the highest standards of conduct and operational effectiveness. In return, whether they are in Aldershot or Afghanistan, they are entitled to a service justice system that provides consistent and fair access to justice for both offender and victim and a complaints process that is fast, effective and efficient. They deserve nothing less, and we are doing our best to deliver it.

[Jim Dobbin (in the Chair)]

Before I call the hon. Member for Bridgend (Mrs Moon) to wind up the debate, I point out that the debate must finish at 5.14 pm.

War Pension Scheme Uprating 2013

Mark Francois Excerpts

Tuesday 29th January 2013 Written Statements

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

The new rates of war pensions and allowances proposed from April 2013 are set out in the tables below. The annual uprating of war pensions and allowances for 2013 will take place from the week beginning 8 April. Rates for 2013 are increasing by 2.2% in line with the September 2012 consumer prices index.

Armed Forces Redundancies

Mark Francois Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Mr Jim Murphy (East Renfrewshire) (Lab)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Defence to make an urgent statement on today’s news on Army redundancies.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

As the House will be aware, the Government announced the process and outline timetable for the armed forces redundancy programme on 1 March 2011—the need for the programme being born out of the strategic defence and security review and subsequent activity to balance the books in the Ministry of Defence. Although in an ideal world we would not need to run a redundancy programme, the Ministry of Defence—like all areas of Government—must live within its means.

Today’s announcement represents the start of the third tranche of that programme and affects only Army personnel. Announcements about who has been selected will be made on 18 June 2013. Applicants will be given six months’ notice, and non-applicants 12 months’ notice, before they leave the service. Although we need to make up to 5,300 Army personnel redundant, the programme will not adversely affect operations in Afghanistan. As with previous tranches there are a number of important exclusions from the programme. Critically, those preparing for, deployed on or recovering from operations on 18 June will be exempt from this tranche. Similarly, personnel who are below the necessary medical standard for continued service will be ineligible for redundancy and will be handled, if necessary, through the standard medical process already in place.

The House will wish to note that because of the draw-down in Afghanistan already announced, a final decision on those who will deploy there in autumn this year will not be made until April 2013. As a result, the final decision on personnel who are excluded as a result of the “preparing for operations” category will not be made until then. We expect at that stage that there will be a further tranche of redundancies in 2014. That is likely to affect Army personnel and a small number of medical and dental officers from the Royal Navy and Royal Air Force.

Throughout the process, the Army will seek to maximise the number of applicants for redundancy. At the same time, we have cut back on recruiting as far as is safe to do so, but as the House will recognise, the services recruit from the bottom up, and therefore a steady inflow of Army recruits will continue to be required.

It is worth highlighting that the majority of those leaving the services as a result of tranches 1 and 2 have already enjoyed success in moving to civilian jobs. All those being made redundant, whether applicants or non-applicants, will enjoy the benefits of the career transition programme. The CTP includes career transition workshops, up to 35 days of paid resettlement, and training and financial support for education and training for up to 10 years after leaving. The programme has historically proved successful in assisting service leavers to find work outside the armed forces, and 93% of those who look for work via the CTP are in full-time employment within six months of leaving the services, rising to 97% after 12 months. To that end, 91% of tranche 1 applicants—more than 1,500 in total—have already found employment. That is testament to, and a reflection of, the training and quality that we, as a nation, continue to find in our service personnel.

[Mr Murphy]

I thank you, Mr Speaker, for granting the urgent question, and the Minister for his reply in the absence of the Secretary of State from the Chamber. It is important to say at the beginning that, on issues of national security and respect for our forces, there should always be bipartisanship.

On the human impact of today’s announcement, will any of those who apply for redundancy as a consequence be refused it? Will any of those who have no intention of leaving be forced to leave? What is the total number of people in the pool who are liable for redundancy? It seems that, as a consequence of what the Minister has said today, those currently serving in Afghanistan will not be exempt from the next round of Army redundancies.

All that has created enormous uncertainty for those who are forced to look for other work or who face mortgage problems. In opposition, Labour has convinced many large private sector employers to guarantee job interviews to unemployed veterans. Will the Ministry of Defence now finally agree to try to do the same with public sector employers? Will the Minister work with mortgage providers to support those who are losing their jobs?

The gaps in the regular Army capability are to be filled by a doubling of the reserves, yet progress is concerning. A recent survey by the Federation of Small Businesses worryingly showed that one in three employers said that nothing would encourage them to employ a reservist, while nine out of 10 said that they had never heard of the MOD’s employer awareness events. Will the Minister therefore confirm how the Territorial Army has performed against its 2012 recruitment target, and, in the light of the enormous increase in demands on the hoped-for thousands of new reservists, will he agree to consider legislation to protect reservists’ employment rights so that they do not face discrimination in the workplace?

The Government’s defence review committed the UK to an Army of 95,000, but it did not mention Mali, Algeria, Tunisia, Nigeria or even Libya. The threats have increased, and yet the Army is being cut to just 82,000, which is well below the previous promise. Will the Minister therefore finally agree to reopen the defence review, which once again has had its flaws exposed by world events?

The Prime Minister rightly spoke yesterday of the urgency concerning the Islamist terror threat to the UK from north Africa, but in a “carry on regardless” strategy, the very next day the MOD has announced 5,000 Army redundancies. Unless Ministers have answers, there will be a growing sense in the country that they are unprepared for the emerging threats in north Africa and beyond.

[Mr Francois]

The shadow Secretary of State asks a number of questions. I will do my best to take them in turn—I might not stick to the precise order, but I will try to get to them.

First, the right hon. Gentleman says that this should not be a subject for partisan argument—the whole House realises that this is an important matter. I will try to respect that spirit, but I cannot escape from pointing out that, although I hear what he says, the reason we are having to conduct a redundancy programme is, ultimately, the size of the defence deficit that this Government inherited. The scale of downsizing required in the Army is a consequence of that. Nothing he can say today can hide that.

That said, let me see whether I can take the right hon. Gentleman’s questions in turn—he asked quite a lot. He asked me to define the size of the pool in tranche 3. The pool is up to 5,300 personnel; it will be limited in tranche 3 to personnel drawn from the Army. It might not reach 5,300. That, in a sense, is the upper number.

The right hon. Gentleman asks whether we would make redundant people who did not want to be made redundant. We will do everything we can to maximise the number of applicants for redundancy. From memory, in tranche 1—when, effectively, exactly the same process and rules were applied—just over 60% of those made redundant were applicants for redundancy. Again from memory, in tranche 2, just over 70% were applicants for redundancy. We will do everything we practically can to maximise the number of applicants in tranche 3. I cannot, in all honesty, give him a guarantee at the Dispatch Box today that we will achieve 100%, but I hope he will understand that, in spirit, we will try to make that number as high as we can.

On exclusions, I set out my reply a few minutes ago. They are effectively the same as for tranches 1 and 2, and details are provided in the written ministerial statement. I have said that there will be a further tranche, tranche 4, at some point later next year. The exclusions that would apply on that date in 2014 should, in principle, be exactly the same exclusions that apply at the moment for this tranche.

On reserves, the right hon. Gentleman expressed scepticism on whether we would be able to meet the target. I believe that on the radio this morning he said:

“I think over time, reducing the size of the armed forces, as long as you put something in its place with a professional reservist force, then there’s a logic to it.”

I agree with him. The question is: can we get to that number? I hope I am in a position to give a reasonably authoritative comment on this, as I served in the reserve forces as an infantry officer in the 1980s. In those days, the Territorial Army, which, as he knows, may be renamed the Army Reserve, had a trained strength of 75,000 men. [Interruption.] He asked me a question; he must let me answer it. We are now aiming to get to 30,000 by 2018. I have to believe that if we got to 75,000 at that time, we can get to 30,000 now.

Our consultation on this matter closed last week. We have had more than 2,500 responses, many from reservists themselves, which is very encouraging. We will publish a White Paper announcing the way forward in spring. As I said in Defence questions last week, we will publish the White Paper, which in military terminology is our plan of attack. We will then cross the start line and get on with it. We are going to succeed.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

I, sadly, had to make four officers on operations redundant. Two of them were volunteers, and two were not. It is very sad that we are now having to force people to take redundancy who might otherwise not be made redundant, because other people on operations cannot be made redundant. Will people who volunteer for redundancy, despite being on operations, be allowed to take it?

[Mr Francois]

In answering my hon. Friend’s question, I pay tribute to his considerable experience in these matters, as the whole House knows. The exclusions apply to people if they do not wish to apply for redundancy and would not be made redundant. If they wish to apply for redundancy voluntarily from within those fields, they are allowed to do so. In essence, they are excluded if they do not want to apply, but allowed to apply voluntarily should they wish to do so. I hope that answers his question.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab)]

I think we will come to regret the cuts to our capability. My question relates specifically to medical staff. Can the Minister say exactly how many medics will be made redundant as a result of the plans he has announced today? What impact will they have on medics cross-service, particularly on operations and in places such as the Queen Elizabeth hospital in Birmingham, and on the expertise and experience in the medical division of our armed forces?

[Mr Francois]

Mr Speaker, I know you have asked for brevity, but as the hon. Gentleman has mentioned the military-managed ward at the Queen Elizabeth hospital it would be remiss of me not to pay tribute to the wonderful people who work there and the marvellous service they provide to our wounded and injured personnel. Bless you, Mr Speaker.

There may be some small reductions to the number of Army medics in this tranche, and some small reductions in naval and RAF medics and dentists in tranche 4. The details are still being worked through, but the hon. Gentleman, who has done this job, will understand that if we are downsizing the regular forces, it makes sense to downsize concomitantly the size of the medical division—but no more than that.

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the Minister for his blessing, which is considerably more than either of us offered the other when first we met in September 1983.

[Sir Menzies Campbell (North East Fife) (LD)]

Can we have an assurance that those selected for redundancy will not include any of those who have specialist skills, such as intelligence gathering, that would assist in the achievement of the ambitious agenda announced by the Prime Minister yesterday?

[Mr Francois]

I would say to my right hon. and learned Friend that in rebalancing the regular Army for its new, smaller size, we need to ensure that we have the correct balance of skills in our armed forces, and we will attempt to do that, including for intelligence personnel.

[Angus Robertson (Moray) (SNP)]

Service personnel numbers in Scotland are at a record low of 11,000. Will the Minister confirm whether that will go down yet further? Only last year the Ministry of Defence said that between 6,500 and 7,000 troops would return from Germany, that a new barracks would be built at Kirknewton and that there would be new training areas in the borders. Will the Minister confirm that the Government are going back on all those commitments?

[Mr Francois]

For the purposes of this process, Scottish personnel will be treated in much the same way as personnel throughout the rest of the United Kingdom. I believe the House thinks that is right; so do I.

[Mr John Baron (Basildon and Billericay) (Con)]

Some of us who have served question the wisdom of cutting regular battalions before knowing for sure that the reservists can fill the large gap that will be left behind. We live in an uncertain world. What objective measures exist for Parliament to gauge progress on this issue?

[Mr Francois]

As my hon. Friend may recall, he raised this matter with me at Defence questions last week. At the risk of being repetitious, I pointed out to him that we are delighted that recent tri-service and Army recruiting campaigns have already produced a 25% increase in TA inquiries, while regular Army engagements are up 3% against a three-year rolling average. I have taken a close personal interest in the plan to increase the size of the reserves. I understand what lies behind his question, but I genuinely believe that we can do it.

[Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab)]

Further to the question from my right hon. Friend the Member for East Renfrewshire (Mr Murphy), may I ask the Minister whether he will be accepting voluntary applications for redundancy from pinch-point trades? If so, what assessment has been made of the cost of replacing that essential operational capability?

[Mr Francois]

I understand the question and I pay tribute to the hon. Gentleman’s service in the regular armed forces. We have to wait and see exactly who does and does not apply. We will not know until March who exactly is in the pool of applicants, so it is difficult for me to answer his question now. However, we need to achieve a fully balanced Army at the end of this process, and that will clearly be an important factor in our thinking when looking at individuals.

[Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con)]

Can my right hon. Friend confirm that we are actively seeking to take the people who are accepting redundancy —or being forced to take it—into the reserve forces? Obviously we need to maintain expertise and experience wherever possible, so if we are doing that, will he also ensure that the transitional period is as efficient and speedy as possible, which, as he and I know, has not always been the case?

[Mr Francois]

The in-principle answer to my hon. Friend’s question is yes, of course we are trying to encourage members leaving the regular forces to join the reserves. He is right that there have been some blockages in the recruiting pipeline in the reserves. I have paid close attention to that. I believe that we have cleared those blockages—I know exactly what he is talking about—and, because of that, that we can make the system of joining the reserves much more smooth and effective in future.

[Andrew Miller (Ellesmere Port and Neston) (Lab)]

What advice did the Minister take on the impact of his statement on morale and, therefore, the effectiveness of the Army?

[Mr Francois]

As I have already said, I do not believe that this will affect current operations in Afghanistan. We have of course consulted the service chiefs and—particularly on this tranche—members from the Army personnel branch. I am very conscious that behind every person who may be affected there is not just a service number, but a serviceman or woman and potentially a family. We realise that, which is why we are trying to do this as fairly and practically as possible, given that we understand that it is a difficult process.

[Sir Nick Harvey (North Devon) (LD)]

Will the Minister confirm that the painful decisions taken in and since the strategic defence and security review aim to balance savings across manpower, equipment and support? Is it not incumbent on anyone opposing this round of redundancies to say where else they would make the savings in defence or come up with an additional defence budget?

[Mr Francois]

Yes and yes.

[Mr Jim Cunningham (Coventry South) (Lab)]

I remind the Minister that he is responsible for the double-dip recession—he should not blame the previous Government. More importantly, how many civilian jobs will go as a result of today’s decision?

[Mr Francois]

I should say that this process not only affects our regular armed forces. Civilians in the Ministry of Defence are affected by a parallel programme—I think that by 2015 we will have reduced our number of civilians by approximately 33%. It would be unfair to say that our regular forces are bearing the brunt of the process while our civil service work force are not, because they are being affected in parallel.

[Mr Crispin Blunt (Reigate) (Con)]

In conducting this wretchedly painful exercise—for reasons that we all understand—which is often heartbreaking at unit level, will the Minister confirm that his duty is to the future shape of the armed forces, that they have the best possible collection of experience and ability to shape manpower and that this will mean making people redundant who do not apply for it? That is a necessary difficulty that, if he is to exercise his duty, we have to face up to.

[Mr Francois]

I thank my hon. Friend for the spirit of his question. In the Ministry of Defence we are ultimately responsible for the defence of the realm, but as I hope he and the House will accept, I fully appreciate as someone who has served in uniform the difficult side of what we are having to do today. We completely understand that. We are therefore doing our best to proceed as sympathetically and fairly as possible; but we must configure our armed forces for the defence of our country and achieve the target set out in Future Force 2020.

[Jenny Chapman (Darlington) (Lab)]

Darlington has a long and proud history of service in the armed forces, particularly the TA. I commend the Minister for his prior service, but as he will have picked up, there is a lot of concern in the House about levels of recruitment to the TA. Will he help us by identifying exactly what level of recruitment to the TA is required and how far we are from achieving it?

[Mr Francois]

The target is for the Territorial Army—probably to be renamed the Army Reserve—to have 30,000 trained reservists by 2018. By the way, we also want to increase the maritime reserve and the Royal Auxiliary Air Force, but they are already nearer their targets. We have looked carefully at the recruiting process. The White Paper, which we will publish in the spring, will lay out our plan of action. We will then move forward rapidly to execute that plan of action. I assure the hon. Lady and the House that I am keeping a laser-like focus on this, because I served in the reserves and I want to see them do well.

[Richard Drax (South Dorset) (Con)]

Does the Minister agree that the defence of our country is a Government’s top priority? If he does agree, how are we to meet all our commitments, with threats growing almost daily, if we continue to cut our armed services?

[Mr Francois]

I should also acknowledge my hon. Friend’s service in the Household Division. The defence of the realm is our priority in the Ministry of Defence. It is a priority for any Government, but we are reconfiguring our armed forces to comply with the SDSR. As I hope I have made plain to the House, although we are reducing the number of regulars over time, we are increasing the number of reservists, and I believe we can achieve that new balance in good time.

[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

Let me tell the Minister that I have never served in the armed forces, but I come from a family of soldiers and I think I have every right to comment today and ask him this. Does he not realise that what he has said today—yet more cuts to our capacity to defend this country—and what the Prime Minister will probably say about Europe tomorrow really means that we will look back on these few days in our history as the end of our country as a significant player in the world peace movement?

[Mr Francois]

I do not agree with that last assertion. If the hon. Gentleman will allow me, I will not comment on the Prime Minister’s speech tomorrow; there will be no shortage of comments on that anyway. Coming back to the hon. Gentleman’s earlier question of whether we understood that this was a difficult process: yes, of course we do. Do we believe that it is necessary for the reasons that we have outlined? Yes, we do. Will we do it as fairly and equitably as possible? Yes, we will.

[Mr Julian Brazier (Canterbury) (Con)]

I support this announcement, painful as it is for many individuals and their families who have given so much service. My right hon. Friend has shown commendable support for building the reserves, but will he confirm that our target for reserves is proportionately the smallest of any country in the English-speaking world?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Francois]

My hon. Friend is probably the greatest living expert in the House on the reserve forces, so I shall not contradict him here and now. I pay tribute to his work on the reserves commission and to all the preparatory work that he and others, including the vice-chief of the defence staff, undertook in order to put us in the position of having £1.8 billion of resources over 10 years to grow our reserves and to make that a practical reality. I thank him for all that he has done on that.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I thank the Minister for his reassurance about retraining for those who have life after military service. This is not just about the value of military redundancies and the reallocation of housing, however; it is also about mortgages for new houses and how best those people should use their redundancy packages. What monetary advice will the Minister give to those who receive redundancy packages?

[Mr Francois]

We provide financial advice to members of the armed forces at various stages of their careers. When applicants—and non-applicants—go through the redundancy process, the career transition partnership provides them with considerable assistance. I believe that discussions on their financial situation, and on what jobs they might apply for, form part of that process.

[Christopher Pincher (Tamworth) (Con)]

The shadow Secretary of State said on Radio 5 Live that there was a logic to making these painful cuts to our armed forces, but does my right hon. Friend agree that there is no logic to the Opposition’s assertion that the SDSR should be reopened and rewritten?

[Mr Francois]

The Opposition cannot will the reopening of the SDSR unless they are prepared to will the additional means to do so. My understanding of their current position is that they wish to will it in spirit but admit that they do not have the money.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

In 2012, did the TA hit or miss its recruitment target, and if it missed it, by how much?

[Mr Francois]

I have already accepted that there were some blockages in the recruitment pipeline. I was aware that there had been difficulties, but I can assure the House that I investigated the problem at close range, as some generals can testify. I believe that those blockages have now been cleared, and that our recruitment and retention—which is also critical—will now improve.

[Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)]

I do not support cutting the British Army to its smallest size since the battle of Waterloo. The Minister is aware of the two-faced approach taken by the Ministry of Defence to those with broken service who volunteered for redundancy in the last tranche. Will he give the House an assurance that no soldier will be treated so shabbily this time?

[Mr Francois]

I know that my hon. Friend takes a close interest in all matters military, not least because of Colchester garrison in his constituency, but I do not believe that we have been “two-faced”, as he put it. I do not accept that assertion, but if he wants to write to me with details of any particular case, I will of course look into them.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

I am sure that, like me, the Minister is delighted by the safe return to our nation of His Royal Highness Prince Harry and his colleagues. Our nation is of course grateful for their service.

With regard to the Minister’s answers today, will he provide a briefing to the Northern Ireland Affairs Committee on this issue? The Committee has opened an investigation into how the military covenant and redundancies will impact on service personnel in Ulster.

[Mr Francois]

I am sure that the whole House will join me in paying tribute to the service of His Royal Highness in theatre in Afghanistan. Captain Wales, as I understand he prefers to be known in the Army, has done well for his country and his service, and we commend him for that.

On the hon. Gentleman’s specific question, I am aware of the military contribution that has come from Northern Ireland down the years, and I hope to visit Northern Ireland in the next few months. With regard to my appearing before the Select Committee, I shall take advice on the matter but, in principle, if it asks me to come, I will be there.

[Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)]

If I understood my right hon. Friend correctly, there will be not much more than a month’s gap between the announcement later this year on who is to be deployed to Afghanistan and the date on which the redundancies will be announced. How will that affect those who might or might not be deployed, including the 3rd Battalion the Mercian Regiment, the Staffords?

[Mr Francois]

My hon. Friend has listened carefully to what has been said, and he is right to suggest that, because of the draw-down of our forces profile in Afghanistan, it will be only in April 2013 that we decide exactly which units will be going there. Clearly, it will then be a priority to look at anyone who might no longer be excluded from redundancy, but in effect, most of those who are in fields that are eligible for redundancy at the moment will have been notified by the chain of command this morning, in parallel with the process of notifying the House.

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

Hull has always been a strong recruiting ground for the armed forces, but alongside these redundancies, pay and pensions are being cut and many will be affected by the strivers’ tax and the bedroom tax. As I understand it, the cuts that have already been announced will mean that the entire British Army will fit into Wembley stadium by 2020. Will the Minister tell me whether the Prime Minister’s statement yesterday about being able to fight a decades-long campaign against global terrorism was realistic?

[Mr Francois]

I understand it, once we have our reserves at full strength, the British Army will not be able to fit inside Wembley stadium.

[Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend confirm that this announcement will not have an impact on the Royal Navy or the Royal Marines, which have already seen a reduction in their numbers? Will he also keep me in touch with the impact that the redundancies will have on the Army units attached to 3 Commando Brigade, and especially to 29 Commando, based at the Royal Citadel in Plymouth?

[Mr Francois]

Yes, I will attempt to keep my hon. Friend in touch, as he requests. The Royal Navy and Royal Air Force were affected in tranches 1 and 2. Tranche 3 relates solely to the Army.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

How many additional special forces does the Minister foresee being needed in the light of yesterday’s statement by the Prime Minister?

[Mr Francois]

We are normally slightly circumspect about commenting in the House of Commons on special forces, and particularly on special forces operations, for reasons that the House will understand very well. In principle, however, as we look to rebalance the size of the armed forces—both regular and reserve—we will clearly look at our special forces requirements in the light of that exercise.

[Mr David Nuttall (Bury North) (Con)]

Last week’s Bury Times reported on the final closure of the town’s Army careers office, and quoted the commander for regional recruiting, Lieutenant Colonel Leanda Pitt, as saying:

“The Army is still recruiting in Bury and there are jobs available now”.

Will the Minister confirm that, if the planned disbandment of the 2nd Battalion the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers proceeds, any Fusiliers likely to be made redundant will, as far as possible, be retrained to fill any vacancies?

[Mr Francois]

That was, in a sense, several questions in one. With regard to recruitment offices, the armed forces, like many other organisations, have had to be aware of the way in which the world has changed. Many people who apply to join the armed forces now do so initially online, rather than walking into a recruiting office in the traditional way. Nevertheless, a number of people still use recruiting offices, so we have rearranged the profile of our offices around the country to try to adjust to life in the 21st century. My hon. Friend also asked about people in the regular armed forces who might be made redundant. Of course, one opportunity would be for them to rejoin as a member of the reserve forces, and we would encourage them to do that wherever possible.

[Heidi Alexander (Lewisham East) (Lab)]

On 31 December, I wrote to the Minister on behalf of a cross-party group of Members to request a meeting with him about the significant financial losses faced by Army officers who are made redundant shortly before their immediate pension point. Given the responsibility shouldered by those officers during their careers, will the Minister now agree to have that meeting?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Francois]

I will consider that request very carefully. I have discussed the matter with representatives of the Army Families Federation and I can assure the hon. Lady that I have looked at the question extremely carefully. I have spent quite a bit of time with officials—[Interruption.] If hon. Members will allow me, I will continue. I have spent quite a bit of time looking at this with officials; it is a very difficult issue. Wherever we draw the line, there will always be some people who are just on the other side of it, and therefore there are always likely to be some people who will miss out. However, if someone leaves the service close to their pension point but not at it, we increase the compensation payment they receive in order to take account of that. Having checked, I found that those payments are, on average, in the order of £70,000 tax-free, and for some higher ranks they could be as much as £100,000 or more—again, untaxed. We have tried to look at the issue sympathetically.

[Andrew Bridgen (North West Leicestershire) (Con)]

From my experience as a private sector employer, I know that ex-service personnel can make excellent and productive employees. Will my right hon. Friend give to the House information held by the MOD about the employability and job prospects of those who previously served in our armed forces?

[Mr Francois]

My hon. Friend makes a very good point. Ex-armed forces personnel are inherently highly employable, as testified by the fact, as I said earlier, that over 90% of those who go through the career transition partnership have found a job within six months. People often want to employ ex-members of the armed forces because they are a quality product. We will do everything we can through the CTP to support applicants or non-applicants who leave the forces to ensure that as many of them as possible find new careers.

[Huw Irranca-Davies (Ogmore) (Lab)]

Historically, many areas with the highest recruitment and employment in the armed forces are also those areas with the highest levels of joblessness, such as the south Wales valleys. On the basis that many of those facing redundancy will return to communities with high levels of joblessness, what additional support will be focused on those areas that have also traditionally had the highest levels of recruitment?

[Mr Francois]

I completely understand the hon. Gentleman’s question on behalf of his constituents. As I understand it, however, the figures I was given on what might be called re-employability apply across the UK, so they also apply to Wales. I believe we are doing well in getting new jobs for people in Wales. It is a UK average, but if there is a particular issue regarding Wales, I will look into it and come back to him.

[Stephen Mosley (City of Chester) (Con)]

At a time when all the headlines are concerned with reductions in the strength of our armed forces, how will the Minister convey the message to potential recruits that the Army is still recruiting?

[Mr Francois]

It is. Some suggestions have been made that because of the redundancy programme we should end recruiting—[Interruption.] Hang on. Past experience shows that if we turn off the recruiting pipeline for a few years, we end up with a black hole in our armed forces structure some years on, which will subsequently be difficult to fill. As I have said, we have reduced the recruitment of regulars as far as we think we practically can, but there comes a point beyond which it is not safe to reduce recruiting efforts for the regulars. We have been mindful of that in going forward. We still want people to join the regular Army.

[Duncan Hames (Chippenham) (LD)]

I thank the Minister for his thoughtful response to the question asked by the hon. Member for Lewisham East (Heidi Alexander) about those service personnel made redundant, who are calling themselves the “unpensionables”. Given his concerns about the difficulty of setting a cut-off point for those payments, will he consider a gradually accrued entitlement approach to the issue?

[Mr Francois]

My hon. Friend has obviously looked at this. If he is referring to what some call the taper model, then we have looked at it, but we do not think it works practically. There is then the further difficult problem about the legacy issue of what to do about tranches 1 and 2. It is not as straightforward as it sometimes looks. I can assure the House that I have tried to look at the issue very carefully, but I am not sure, for some of the reasons I have outlined, that we can change the position. We know it is a difficult subject, but wherever we draw the line, there will always be someone just on the other side of it.

[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

Will my right hon. Friend reassure us that armed personnel who have suffered significant injuries will not be subject to these redundancies?

[Mr Francois]

They will not. We have special provisions and procedures in place for dealing with people who have been seriously wounded in the service of their country. In essence, the policy is that they do not leave the service until it is in their interest and in the interest of the service for them to do so. If anyone is in any doubt about the dedication we provide to our seriously wounded, I would advise them to visit Headley Court, as they would be massively impressed by what they saw.

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

It is very encouraging and not surprising that, because of their professionalism, skills, training and tremendous work ethic, 97% of armed forces personnel who are made redundant find alternative employment within 12 months. Because of the individual example they can set for our young people, we need more ex-service personnel in our schools. What discussions is the Minister having with the Department for Education to make sure that we get large numbers of our former troops changing into teachers?

[Mr Francois]

Again, I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s service, particularly in respect of the reserve forces. He may know of the troops to teachers programme, which is run in accordance with the Department for Education to encourage ex-servicemen to go into a teaching career, as they often provide experienced authority figures, particularly in areas where some children come from difficult and disadvantaged backgrounds. We also have a programme to expand cadet units in schools, particularly in state schools. We have a target of 100 new cadet units in state schools by 2015. So far, we have had expressions of interest from some 70 schools, and some new cadet units have already opened. The programme is well on track.

[David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)]

Will the Minister confirm that these redundancies will take place pro rata across all ranks, and that nothing in the statement will cause a drift towards a top-heavy Army?

[Mr Francois]

We had a separate review of senior posts in the Ministry of Defence. We have already reduced the rank, as it were, of some appointments, so it would be unfair to say that senior officers are being completely excluded from changes in the structure of our armed forces. They are not. We are mindful of trying to deliver this in as balanced a way as possible. I hope that, if nothing else, I have managed to convince the House that we have thought about this matter. While this is a very difficult process, we are attempting to do it as sympathetically and fairly as practically possible. We are not magicians, but we are genuinely doing our best.

Armed Forces Redundancy Programme (Tranche 3)

Mark Francois Excerpts

Tuesday 22nd January 2013 Written Statements

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

The Government announced in the outcome of the strategic defence and security review in October 2010 that, as part of moving to Future Force 2020, we would reduce the size of the Regular Army by 7,000 personnel, and both the naval service and Royal Air Force by 5,000 personnel. In addition, in order to balance the British Army’s regular and reserve forces, further reductions were subsequently identified to deliver a Regular Army of around 82,000 by 2020. We also made it clear that, in order to maintain balanced force structures for the future, an element of these reductions would need to be made through a redundancy programme.

Our statement of 1 March 2011, Official Report, column 21-22WS, set out the process and timetable for the armed forces redundancy programme. Consequently, in September 2011, 2,860 service personnel were notified of their redundancy in the first tranche (1,020 service personnel from the naval service, 920 from the Army and 920 from the Royal Air Force), 62% of whom had applied for selection. On 12 June 2012, 3,760 service personnel were notified of their selection for redundancy in the second tranche (160 service personnel from the naval service, 2,880 from the Army and 720 from the Royal Air Force), 72% of whom had applied for selection.

Today the Army is announcing the fields from which they will select personnel to be made redundant in the third tranche of the programme; this will comprise up to 5,300 Army personnel. There is likely to be a need for a further tranche for Army personnel and medical and dental personnel from the Royal Navy and RAF in due course.

The same selection principles as used in the last two tranches will be applied. The Army will seek to maximise the number of applicants from all personnel that meet the published criteria. The redundancy programme will not impact adversely on current operations in Afghanistan, and no one who is serving on specified operations on the day the redundancy notices are issued on 18 June 2013 will be made redundant unless they are applicants. Similarly, those preparing for, or recovering from such operations on the day the redundancy notices are issued will not be made redundant unless they have applied. Those personnel who are liable to deploy with their units to Afghanistan in autumn 2013 on the day the redundancy notices are issued will be exempt from tranche 3 unless they are an applicant; as a result of the drawdown plans already announced, those units liable to deployment will not be confirmed until April 2013. Any applicant who is selected for redundancy and whose unit is subsequently deployed will be able to choose whether to deploy with the unit, or not. Personnel who are assessed as being permanently below the level of fitness required to remain in the forces will not be considered for redundancy, and will instead leave through the medical discharge route at the appropriate stage in their recovery.

Throughout the redundancy process, we will ensure that we retain the capabilities that our armed forces require in order to meet the challenges of the future.

Oral Answers to Questions

Mark Francois Excerpts

Monday 14th January 2013 Commons Chamber

[Peter Aldous (Waveney) (Con)]

9. What discussions his Department has had with other Government Departments on supporting the armed forces covenant.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

The covenant is a matter for the whole of Government and sustained progress requires close working across Whitehall. To oversee that work and maintain the momentum, a Cabinet Sub-Committee on the armed forces covenant was established in February 2012, led by my right hon. Friend the Minister for Government Policy. The Committee met four times in 2012. It works closely with the covenant reference group, which includes representation from the service community and a number of key service charities, as well as armed forces advocates from Departments and the devolved Administrations.

[Andrew Stephenson]

Specifically with regard to co-operation with the Department of Health, will the Minister say what is being done to improve mental health provision for those who are serving and for veterans?

[Mr Francois]

I assure the House that we work very closely with our colleagues in the Department of Health on these important issues. We have delivered improvements in mental health care provision, including greater access to mental health care for up to six months after discharge, an increase in the number of veterans’ mental health nurses, a 24-hour helpline, and a support and advice website, popularly known as the Big White Wall, which has proved popular with veterans, including some of those facing these challenges.

[Peter Aldous]

Given that about 300 out of the 430 local authorities, including Suffolk county council and Waveney district council, have signed a community covenant between the civilian and armed forces communities in their area, does the Minister agree that it would be fantastic if all Departments and local authorities that are yet to sign such a covenant did so by Armed Forces day on 29 June?

[Mr Francois]

I am encouraged by the number of local authorities around the country that have signed community covenants and pledged to do their best for armed forces communities, the families of those who are serving and veterans. It would be fantastic if local authorities were to sign up by that date, but we should not have to wait until then—the more the merrier and the sooner the better.

[Lyn Brown (West Ham) (Lab)]

In the Government’s annual covenant report, forces federations state that they

“remain deeply concerned at the cumulative effect of the impact of the pay freeze for many, allowances cuts, including significant and sudden reductions in overseas allowances that have been imposed on families mid-tour, and changes to pensions indexing.”

Is it not the case that, although the Government have enshrined the covenant in law, their actions simply undermine it?

[Mr Francois]

I do not accept that last assertion. It is true that we have enshrined the key principles of the armed forces covenant in law, and I was proud to be one of those who served on the Armed Forces Bill Committee, which helped bring that process to fruition. I work closely with the Army Families Federation; in fact, one of my first appointments as a Minister in the Department was to go and talk to 300 Army wives at the AFF conference. I listen carefully to what it says and will continue to do so.

[Gemma Doyle (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op)]

I welcome the publication of the report and note the comments of service charities on the covenant reference group, who state:

“We continue to hope that, in line with the 2010 Coalition Agreement, the Government will use any efficiencies and other monies that become available within the MoD budget, to invest in”

decent homes. Was it not therefore deeply careless that the Ministry of Defence very nearly had to surrender a reported underspend of hundreds of millions of pounds to the Treasury at the end of last year? Why did it not allocate at least part of it to housing, and will it do so now?

[Mr Francois]

As the hon. Lady will know, some months ago we injected an additional £100 million for housing back into the programme, and we need to ensure that that money is well spent. I take a particularly close interest in the quality of service accommodation. At the AFF conference, which I mentioned in my previous answer, one serviceman raised with me an issue about the poor quality of his quarter, and two weeks later I went and knocked on his door to see it for myself. I cannot promise to do that for every serviceman who raises an issue, but I take the matter seriously and will most certainly continue to do so.

[Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)]

The reality and the rhetoric of the armed forces covenant are such that there is a feeling of betrayal in the Colchester garrison. In 1997, there were 33 Ministry of Defence police officers there looking after the Army married quarters and Army schools. In April, the last MOD police officer will be made redundant. May I urge the Minister at the very least to reinstate some MOD police at the Colchester garrison?

[Mr Francois]

As ever, my hon. Friend mentions Colchester, which I know he represents vociferously on these matters. I have already had a meeting with the chief constable of the MOD police and one with the Defence Police Federation to discuss issues such as the profile of manning at sites. I am also planning in the near future to visit RAF Wethersfield, where, as my hon. Friend knows, the MOD police are based, and I intend to continue the dialogue at that meeting.

[Nic Dakin (Scunthorpe) (Lab)]

Does the Minister share my concern that Army regulars, including those serving in Afghanistan, reservists and trainees are likely to be badly affected by the Government’s bedroom tax, which goes against the whole direction of the covenant?

[Mr Francois]

I am not sure that the effect will be exactly as the hon. Gentleman outlines, but he raises a specific issue, and to do it proper justice I will look into it when I get back to the Department and write to him about it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jack Lopresti (Filton and Bradley Stoke) (Con)]

13. What support he has received from major employers for the proposals set out in his Reserves Green Paper.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

As I informed the House on 26 November a number of large companies have shown their support for our reservists and the Green Paper consultation process. Some have held their own reserves awareness events. We have received over 2,400 responses to the consultation to date—not all from my hon. Friend the Member for Canterbury (Mr Brazier)—and we held a workshop on 11 January with major employers and the Secretary of State. We continue to engage with major employers, but also with medium-sized and small businesses, the CBI, the Federation of Small Businesses and other employer organisations to ensure that we capture the views of as broad a range of employers as possible.

[Mr Baron]

I thank the Minister for that response, but the Government will know that I think it unwise to disband regular infantry battalions, such as 2nd Battalion the Royal Regiment of Fusiliers, before first being certain that the reservists can plug the gap. What objective measures exist for Parliament to gauge the progress of Government plans in this regard?

[Mr Francois]

I acknowledge the strong interest that my hon. Friend has taken in the fate of his old regiment. I think that the whole House can understand his motivation for doing that. Our plan is for the Army to achieve its full strength of 30,000 trained volunteer reservists in 2018 from its current trained and in-training volunteer reservist strength of 25,000. These are early days, but I am delighted that the recent tri-service recruiting campaigns have produced a 25% increase in Territorial Army inquiries and that regular Army enlistment is up by 3% against a three-year rolling average. We regard both those statistics as good news.

[Jack Lopresti]

What steps will be taken to ensure that there is not a one-size-fits-all approach to employers and reservists, and that instead the Government will consider factors such as the size and complexity of the business?

[Mr Francois]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend, who, as many in the House will know, was mobilised and saw active service on behalf of his country on Operation Herrick and therefore clearly understands this issue very well. I stress to him that we considered this question carefully in the consultation, and we are mindful that, proportionally, for some smaller and medium-sized employers it is a greater challenge to let reservists go and be deployed than it is for some larger organisations. We have been talking to employers about it and intend to set out the way forward when we publish the White Paper in the spring.

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

Will the Government legislate to ensure that employers cannot discriminate against reservists in their hiring policies, promotion or in other ways in the workplace?

[Mr Francois]

I understand exactly the hon. Lady’s question, and we will lay out our proposals when we publish the White Paper in the spring. At the moment, our instinct is not to legislate and to try and persuade, but we understand the difficulty and will address the issue specifically when we publish the White Paper.

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

Will the Minister tell the House how many reservists he expects to be on extended readiness at any one time?

[Mr Francois]

Again, we will lay out the exact profile for how we intend to deploy the reserves when we publish the White Paper. We should bear it in mind that the process will run for several years. Again, the answer will be addressed when we publish the White Paper in the spring, but I stress to the House how seriously we take this process. To use an old Army term, we will publish the White Paper, then cross the start line and get on with it.

[Patrick Mercer (Newark) (Con)]

What incentives are being offered to regular soldiers, upon discharge or redundancy, to join the volunteer reserve?

[Mr Francois]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question and say in passing that I look forward to visiting the Newark patriotic fund in his constituency later this week. On the question about incentives, I hope that the House will forgive me if again I pray in aid the White Paper. We are considering the issue as we prepare our plan, which we will lay out in the spring, and I can assure him that we are mindful of his point.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

We know that the Government are reducing the size of the regular Army, with the constant issuing of redundancy notices to members of our armed forces. There is clearly a concern that there will be a gap between regular service personnel and the new plans for reservists coming into place. How confident is the Minister that reservists will be able to meet those demands and that he can get employers to release reservists covered by the present legislation?

[Mr Francois]

I hope that I have already mentioned the point about legislation in an earlier answer. With regard to numbers, we continue to manage the growth in the Army reserve and the reduction in regular numbers closely. Beyond the end of operations in Afghanistan, these trajectories will be kept under close review to ensure that we can take early action to maintain an appropriate force level to meet our planning assumptions.

[Karl MᶜCartney (Lincoln) (Con)]

7. What recent discussions he has had with his international security assistance force partners on the draw-down of combat troops from Afghanistan.

--- Later in debate ---

[Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)]

11. What steps his Department is taking to increase the number of cadet forces in the UK.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

As announced by the Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister on armed forces day 2012, the Department for Education and the Ministry of Defence are working together to enable 100 more state-funded schools to have cadet units by 2015. The extra cadet units will be formed through partnerships with existing units or by self-standing new units, both using third- party sponsorship. The Departments have identified £10.85 million to meet the training and equipment costs of the programme. More than 70 state schools have already registered their interest in the programme and the joint departmental team, supported by the reserve forces and cadets associations, will be working with schools to develop the most appropriate cadet option for each individual school.

[Fiona Bruce]

I thank the Minister for that reply. Will he join me in commending the hugely dedicated leaders and committed cadets in my constituency, such as the Air Training Corps in Sandbach and Congleton, particularly the Tigers of 230 Squadron in Congleton ATC? Their dining-in night this week will celebrate another successful year of developing wide-ranging practical skills, confidence and qualifications, not least a clutch of bronze, silver and gold Duke of Edinburgh awards.

[Mr Francois]

I am delighted to join my hon. Friend in paying tribute to those units and, indeed, to cadet units across the country, which do so much to foster the right values in our young people. I would also like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to Leading Cadet A. Green of the Sea Cadets Corps, from the Winsford and Middlewich unit, who was appointed a Lord Lieutenant’s Cadet recently. We commend that cadet too.

[Diana Johnson (Kingston upon Hull North) (Lab)]

Private schools account for only 8% of all schools yet have 76% of cadet forces. Will the Minister confirm that, as a matter of urgency, he will switch the majority of the available funding to the state sector?

[Mr Francois]

As the hon. Lady rightly points out, it is a historical fact that the majority of cadet units in schools have historically been in the independent sector. The non-school cadet units, however, are spread across the whole country. Within schools, the bulk of the funding is focused, as I said in my earlier answer, towards trying to promote cadet units in state schools. Of those 70, a number of the new units, including one at an Essex school in Westcliff, are up and running.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Jim Murphy (East Renfrewshire) (Lab)]

We all welcome the number of councils that have signed up to the community covenant, which will help to ease the transition from military to civilian life. This morning I was in Dagenham with the council leader, Liam Smith, to launch Labour’s campaign for a veterans champion to be appointed in every council so that service leavers have a single point of contact when they need it. Will the Minister commit the Ministry of Defence to a campaign to encourage the appointment of a forces champion in every local authority in the country, regardless of politics?

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

I accept that the proposal is well meant, and I have already met some Labour MPs to discuss it. The actual implementation of the community covenant at ground level is a matter for individual councils, but, as the right hon. Gentleman may know, we have encouraged all councils—within the freedom that they have—to appoint armed forces champions, hopefully at senior level, to champion the needs of the armed forces and the veterans community in those local authorities. I am not averse to the suggestion, but the fact is that most councils are already implementing it.

[Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con)]

T2. The Minister may be aware that last Thursday an exceptional debate on dementia took place in this House, with the consensus being that cross-government working must play its part in helping to meet this challenge of dementia. Will he assure me that the Ministry of Defence will play its part in helping us to meet that challenge?

[Mr Francois]

Almost one in 10 adults in this country is an armed forces veteran, so clearly the increasing prevalence of dementia has implications for those veterans, too. As I have said in response to other questions, we work very closely with our colleagues in the Department of Health. They have primary responsibility for dealing with this challenge, but of course we also work closely with armed forces charities—the Royal British Legion and many others—to try to provide bespoke services for veterans who are dealing with this challenge in their life.

[Mr William Bain (Glasgow North East) (Lab)]

T8. Last week, 1.2 million people lost their entitlement to all or part of their child benefit. Can the Minister say how many people in the armed forces are affected by that change? Will he assure us that every single member of the armed forces has been notified that they would lose all or part of their child benefit?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)]

Ministry of Defence reports in 2006, 2007, 2009 and 2012 showed that the majority of women in the armed forces were subject to unwarranted sexual harassment. Such harassment creates a climate in which rape and sexual assault can be prevalent; it creates a climate for these things to take place. What steps is the MOD taking to protect women in the armed forces?

[Mr Francois]

We take this issue extremely seriously. I know that the hon. Lady knows a lot about it, and I hope that she will not mind my mentioning to the House that she and I met in my office last week for a little over an hour to talk about it in detail. I have had meetings with the Provost Marshal (Army)—the head of the Royal Military Police—to talk about the issue; he was also present at our meeting. I have also had meetings with people such as the chief constable of the Ministry of Defence police. So we take this issue very seriously. We absolutely do not tolerate any offences of this kind. When any are reported, they will be most thoroughly investigated. As the hon. Lady knows, we have also been running awareness campaigns to encourage servicemen and women who come across any offence of this type to report it immediately, so that appropriate action can be taken.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

--- Later in debate ---

[Simon Hughes (Bermondsey and Old Southwark) (LD)]

T4. May I preface my question by saying that my younger brother is a defence mental health professional? Is the idea that has been around that all serving personnel should have mental health assessments and training being progressed and what progress has been made on it?

[Mr Francois]

I have been briefed on this specific issue by Professor Simon Wessely and his team at King’s college London, who are internationally renowned as experts in this field. They are researching this specific issue and we are awaiting the outcome of that research. I know you want brief answers, Mr Speaker, but the professor was knighted for his public service in the new year’s honours list and we most heartily welcome that.

[Phil Wilson (Sedgefield) (Lab)]

In July 2012, a memorial to the Durham Light Infantry was unveiled at the National Memorial Arboretum in Staffordshire. The Northern Echo and veterans of the DLI have launched a campaign for a similar memorial in the DLI’s home county. Will the Minister support that campaign and say what else the MOD can do to ensure a fitting memorial can be unveiled to the DLI in County Durham?

[Mr Francois]

I pay tribute to the proud history of that regiment. I visited the National Memorial Arboretum, but I cannot say whether, when I was there, I visited that specific memorial. As the hon. Gentleman knows, there are about 200. By tradition, the MOD does not pay for war memorials—that has been a tradition for many years. They are paid for by public subscription, but if the DLI, its veterans and others manage to raise the money for that memorial, I promise I will come and visit it.

[Fiona Bruce (Congleton) (Con)]

T5. How can local organisations such as the admirable Congleton charity the Listening Out Loud Foundation, which has just opened its first home for seven ex-servicemen, obtain broader support? It is working with Cheshire East council and hopes to obtain agreement this week for another home. Is that not an excellent example of partnership working in this field?

[Mr Francois]

You want brief answers, Mr Speaker: yes.

[Pat Glass (North West Durham) (Lab)]

Will the new state pension arrangements that will be announced today and implemented in 2017 mean that a member of the armed services who is 13 years from retirement today will have to contribute for nine years at the higher level but not receive the state pension?

[Mr Francois]

We are working on the details of armed forces pension scheme 15 at the moment. We are still working on some of the fine detail, but I can already say—[Interruption.] Yes, I know, but we are still working on some of the fine detail for its implementation when it starts in 2015. I can already say that the Forces Pension Society has described the new pension as

“as good as it gets”.

[Alec Shelbrooke (Elmet and Rothwell) (Con)]

T6. The Wetherby and district branch of the Royal British Legion in my constituency works hard to enable the reintegration of ex-personnel. What measures are the Minister and the Department taking to ensure that there is the necessary support for our men and women so that they can enjoy the quality of life they deserve after leaving the forces?

[Mr Francois]

We work very closely with the Royal British Legion and many of the other service charities, such as Help for Heroes, Veterans Aid—a whole range of them—to try to do the best between ourselves and the charitable sector for veterans who have served in our armed forces. These are exceptional people who have done so much for their country and it is right that we support them appropriately.

[Tom Blenkinsop (Middlesbrough South and East Cleveland) (Lab)]

On Wednesday 9 January I asked the Ministers present whether they had met and discussed with the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions the effect of the under-occupancy penalty in relation to housing benefit for service personnel and their families. The Minister’s response was that no discussions had been held with the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions. Is this state of affairs due to the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions refusing to meet, or has no request for a meeting been made by the Government’s defence team?

[Mr Francois]

I think the hon. Gentleman will find that the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions is a former regular officer, so I think he understands as well as anybody the needs of our armed forces.

[Simon Wright (Norwich South) (LD)]

T9. Ministers will be aware of the great potential of Norfolk’s RAF Marham as a base for the joint strike fighter. Will they update the House on the timetable on which basing decisions will be made?

[Luciana Berger (Liverpool, Wavertree) (Lab/Co-op)]

Medical analysis shows us that reservists are more susceptible than regulars to post-deployment mental health problems and post-traumatic stress disorder. What improvements are being made specifically to post-deployment care for reservists?

[Mr Francois]

There was a time a while ago when reservists returning from theatre did not go through a full decompression package and did not get the full mental health briefing when they returned from theatre. We have now altered that so that reservists do go through the full decompression package and do get a full mental health briefing when they come back from theatre. I will not go into the point about who was in charge when some of these deficiencies existed.

[Jeremy Lefroy (Stafford) (Con)]

T10. What discussions has my right hon. Friend had over how the Staffords’ name, traditions and role as armoured infantry will be retained in the Mercian Regiment?

[Mr Francois]

Our policy is that where there are changes in the order of battle, it is very important that history and traditions of noble regiments are properly acknowledged. In the first instance we look to the regimental councils to agree among themselves appropriate proposals to do this. I understand that the Mercian regimental council has come up with proposals that are going through an approvals process. Providing they are reasonable, which we think they are, we will be happy to endorse them.

[Thomas Docherty (Dunfermline and West Fife) (Lab)]

If the UK Government are to meet the costs of the C-17s for the Mali operation, will the Minister identify which Government Department will meet those costs?

Red Arrow Hawk XX179 (Service Inquiry)

Mark Francois Excerpts

Tuesday 18th December 2012 Written Statements

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

I wish to inform the House of the findings of the service inquiry into the accident involving RAF Aerobatic Team Hawk T Mk 1 XX179 on 20 August 2011, in which Flight Lieutenant Jon Egging was tragically killed.

On the day of the accident, following a successful aerobatic display at Bournemouth air festival, the Red Arrows returned to Bournemouth international airport. During the formation manoeuvre to position for landing, XXI79 developed a progressively steepening downward flight path and was observed to crash in open fields south of the airport perimeter. The aircraft broke up before coming to rest in the vicinity of the River Stour.

A service inquiry was convened by the director general of the Military Aviation Authority to examine the cause of the accident and to make recommendations to prevent recurrence. The service inquiry panel has conducted an independent, thorough and objective inquiry and its report is now complete.

An executive summary of the full report has previously been provided to relevant defence stakeholders to ensure the timely dissemination of these air safety lessons. The more acute recommendations have already been implemented by the chain of command.

The coroner’s inquest into the death of Flight Lieutenant Egging has now concluded. As such, a copy of the service inquiry, redacted in accordance with the provisions of the Freedom of Information Act 2000, is being placed in the Library of the House today and on the Ministry of Defence website.

Defence Personnel

Mark Francois Excerpts

Thursday 6th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[Ms Stuart]

But we closed them not because we wanted to, but because the royal colleges were telling us that the MOD could no longer provide the best medical services. Ten years ago, the NHS looked at the Ministry of Defence and said, “You guys really need to step up to the plate and improve your act.” Now, some of the work within defence medicine is miles ahead of what the NHS is doing in terms of rehabilitation and care. We have unexpected survival rates among soldiers, which one can see in the latest evidence from Afghanistan, that are well beyond what the NHS could do. That is a good development.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

To go back to the hon. Lady’s point about numbers, I declare an interest because my mother was Italian. The hon. Lady’s point about the carabinieri being included is right. In my experience, the Chief of the General Staff is a very plain-speaking gentleman. If there has been any difficulty with that particular paragraph, I am sure that she will get a very clear reply. I echo her comments with regard to the role of 3 hospital at Camp Bastion. The stunning statistic from that facility in Helmand is that however severely wounded they are, 98% of the people who go through its doors alive come out alive. That is an incredible statistic and we pay tribute to that hospital.

[Ms Stuart]

I also want to draw attention to the creation of the Fisher house on the site of the Queen Elizabeth hospital, which has 18 en-suite rooms. It will be ready next year and will have much better facilities for the families. That is another good development.

I do have concerns about the future. At the moment, our young injured heroes are young injured heroes. In 10 or 20 years’ time, they will be middle-aged, probably overweight like many of us, and will no longer have the image of a hero. Will we still look after them properly then? The military covenant mentions that point.

The paper on the military covenant, which arrived so nicely in time for this debate, refers to the establishment of

“a unified Defence Primary Healthcare Service”.

I urge the Minister to talk to colleagues in the NHS about this matter, because I am in no way convinced that the commissioning structures that are being put in place, now that primary care trusts are no longer doing the commissioning, are sufficient to ensure that the very specialist services that our veterans need are provided not just for the next year, five years or 10 years, but in the long term. It is so much easier for Americans, because registering as a veteran gives them access to free medical health care. We do not have that in this country and it is easy to forget that in years to come, they will still have very special needs.

I read through the report just before the debate and it states that we are planning to create that service, but we need to be more specific. Will it be a specialist commissioning unit? Will there be national commissioning? If so, how will it work throughout England, Scotland, Wales and Northern Ireland, given that health is a devolved issue? This is going to be key in the long term to veterans trusting what we provide through the military covenant.

This is a very useful debate. The key thing that I urge the Minister to go away with is that we need to have a much clearer sense of purpose and of what we want our armed forces to do. We must not just look at them when they have been injured or have given their life, as important as that is; I want them to be honoured, celebrated and recognised for the job that they want to do, and that is the job of fighting. We as a country need to have a sense of when we think something is worth fighting for. That needs to be spelt out at some stage or another by the Government.

--- Later in debate ---

[Angus Robertson]

Forgive me, but I want to make some progress. I know that other right hon. and hon. Gentlemen wish to speak.

It is helpful, when talking about the level of commitment to the defence footprint in Scotland, to be reminded of the facts. Only four infantry battalions are based in Scotland. The Scottish-recruited infantry is now smaller than the infantry of the Irish Republic. Further to the infantry battalions, we have 39 Engineer Regiment in the newly renamed Kinloss barracks. It is important to note that manning levels there are 41% lower than the previous RAF establishment total and that no regular Army units are based in Scotland in the following and important categories: artillery, armour, signals, logistics, air corps, intelligence and special forces. There are no military training establishments in Scotland, which means no military academy, no engineering schools, no Army training regiments, no infantry training centres and no senior strategic military command.

Even at this late stage, as the Government go through what they planned to announce in the basing review, which is exceptionally important to service personnel, I appeal to them not to go back on their commitments. Only a year ago, promises were made, and they should be kept. On a related note, the covenant has mentioned. I agree that everything should be done to deliver on it. As the hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston pointed out, however, a large number of policy areas relating to the covenant are devolved. I observe that the Minister with responsibility for liaising with devolved Administrations has yet to speak to the Scottish Government since taking office. Having been asked for a meeting by the Scottish Government, he has yet to reply and make it happen.

[Mr Francois]

Will the hon. Gentleman give way?

[Angus Robertson]

I would be grateful if the Minister could explain why that might be the case.

[Mr Francois]

I am responsible for my diary, and I met Keith Brown, MSP, who is the transport and veterans Minister in the Scottish Government, some weeks ago. He is an ex-Royal Marine. It is fair to say that we had a constructive meeting. I have met the person in the Scottish Government responsible for the issue I am responsible for in the UK Government, so to try and imply that the UK Government are not in a dialogue with these people is incorrect.

[Angus Robertson]

“These people” being the Minister and the Scottish Government. I am pleased that the Minister has met Keith Brown; I am just pointing out that the UK MOD Minister responsible for relations with the devolved Administrations has not followed his lead. Perhaps he might encourage him to do so.

I hope that the Government do not go back on their commitments at this late stage. I do not believe that any sovereign Scottish Government of any mainstream hue would manage defence in the way the UK Government have done, with disproportionate cuts to manpower, spending and basing. It is time to make better defence decisions in Scotland. The Scottish National party has committed to uniform personnel levels of 15,000 in Scotland—4,000 more than the 11,000 the UK currently has based there—but we will only be able to do that after a yes vote in the 2014 independence referendum. I look forward to that greatly.

[Mr James Gray (North Wiltshire) (Con)]

This has been a fascinating, well balanced and intelligent debate, covering a wide variety of topics. That includes the contribution from the hon. Member for Moray (Angus Robertson), whom I am delighted to follow. He knows his stuff and has made a useful contribution to the all-party armed forces group over the years. I am grateful to him for that, although the possibility of he and I ever coming to a mutual understanding on what will happen to defence in the unlikely event of Scottish independence is perhaps rather remote. I am grateful to him for his remarks and his help over the years.

I rather regret that the old parliamentary tradition of set-piece defence debates has been abolished—I seem to recall that at one time there were six, and then there were three, I think. My right hon. Friend the Member for North East Hampshire (Mr Arbuthnot), the Chairman of the Defence Committee, has made representations on this subject to the Procedure Committee, on which I sit. Those debates have been replaced by a bid—in this case to be made by the Defence Committee—to the Backbench Business Committee for time. That means that defence, which ought to be the greatest and heaviest duty of the nation, has to compete with other more topical, interesting or amusing subjects for debating time. That is wrong. The Procedure Committee has considered whether time should be given for set-piece debates of this kind and has undertaken to keep the subject under review. It is always worth making the point that we ought to have set-piece debates during the year on defence, the Intelligence and Security Committee and one or two other equally grave and weighty subjects, which might not be quite as popular as some others.

Today’s debate is about defence personnel. If defence of the realm is our greatest duty, it is right that paying our respects, thanks and homage to the people who make that possible—our armed forces—should be high on our list of priorities as a Parliament. I am therefore glad that in recent years we have had the opportunity to welcome back the two brigades a year that return from Afghanistan, as we did successfully the other day. I am grateful to Mr Speaker, Black Rod, the Serjeant at Arms and others who make those parades possible. They are terribly important in allowing Parliament to remember and be physically shown the people we have sent off to war. They are also terribly important from the brigades’ point of view.

Let me quote from a letter I received this morning from the commander of 12th Mechanized Brigade, who came to Parliament last week:

“The opportunity to celebrate and thank our young soldiers is rarely done in such a special way. Although respect for our soldiers is often talked about, the Parliamentary Parade and reception brought it firmly home to me that those sentiments are both genuine and heartfelt. Understanding this was particularly important for the more junior members on parade, as it is they who often faced the gravest danger and all too often it is our youngest who are forced to make the ultimate sacrifice. When that price is paid we know that they will never be forgotten. That response is often expressed by others as well. Last Monday confirmed that it is truly meant by those we serve.”

Brigadier Chalmers’ letter is of great importance and brings it home to us that it is right and proper to pay our respects to those young soldiers. We should be aware that the things they do—as well as the discomforts they face, quite apart from the dangers—are things that very few people in this Chamber would ever contemplate doing themselves. We should take this opportunity to thank and pay tribute to them for all they do.

[Mr Francois]

I want absolutely to echo from the Dispatch Box what my hon. Friend has just said. I pay tribute to his work as chairman of the all-party armed forces group in helping to organise the homecoming parades. I have seen for myself, on the faces of the troops, how much they appreciate those parades. I endorse the value of these exercises and celebrate the achievements of the men who came back to Parliament. [Interruption.]

[Madam Deputy Speaker (Dawn Primarolo)]

Order. May I ask the Minister to face the Chamber when he next stands at the Dispatch Box, so that we can hear what he says and so that he can see the Chair, just in case there needs to be an intervention from the Chair?

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

I congratulate my right hon. Friend the Member for North East Hampshire (Mr Arbuthnot) on helping to secure the debate, and thank the Backbench Business Committee for providing time for it. It has been a good debate, and I shall attempt to refer to as many contributions as is practically possible in the time available.

My right hon. Friend the Member for North East Hampshire, the Chairman of the Select Committee, raised several issues. Let me deal briefly with one of them, which was also raised by other Members. It concerned the Service Complaints Commissioner. I met Dr Atkins recently to discuss how we could help her to perform her very independent role. I hope that the dialogue on which we have embarked will prove productive, and I look forward to meeting her again in the new year.

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Portsmouth North (Penny Mordaunt) on her recent commissioning as a sub-lieutenant in the Royal Naval Reserve. In debates such as this, it is always reassuring to know that the Royal Navy is sitting behind me, particularly as my father served in the Royal Navy.

I thank my Essex colleague, my hon. Friend the Member for Colchester (Sir Bob Russell), for his contribution. He raised a range of issues, and, as usual, he had a long wish list. I can tell him that I was present when the Colchester Military Wives Choir performed in Portcullis House, and that I thanked them at the end of their performance. I visited Colchester garrison about a year ago, as a member of the Committee that dealt with the Bill that became the Armed Forces Act 2011, thus helping to enshrine the key principles of the covenant in law. I have met representatives of the Defence Police Federation and trade union representatives of the Ministry of Defence Guard Service, and I hope to return to Colchester early in the new year. I hope that that satisfies the hon. Gentleman, at least for the moment. I will not mention the meeting that I had with him at the MOD yesterday on a different topic.

This debate falls on the day on which we publish the first annual report on the armed forces covenant, which is a subject of great importance and should be given due regard. For too long we may have sometimes taken for granted the special nature of military service: a willingness, if necessary, to lay down one’s life for one’s country. I echo the tributes that have been paid to the extremely moving and powerful speech made by my hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart), who reminded us of the tragedy of the Ballykelly bombing 30 years ago. I am sure that he will do good service when he returns to commemorate that very difficult anniversary at the weekend.

Let me also remind the House, if it needs reminding, that today, as I speak, men and women are on patrol in Afghanistan, helping to keep us safe from terrorism at home. We must and will go the extra mile for them for their families, and for the roughly one in 10 adults in the United Kingdom who are veterans. That is a very important statistic.

The hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) also mentioned the covenant. We had a very good debate about it in the House last month. Let me update the hon. Gentleman on the points that were raised. There is a difficulty with local authorities in Northern Ireland signing the community covenant because it could be argued in some quarters that it conflicts with equalities legislation. That point was made powerfully in the debate. We have now formed a working group of officials from the MOD and the Northern Ireland Office to try to find a way through the difficulty, and I know that the hon. Gentleman and others are to have a meeting with the Prime Minister fairly shortly. We will do our best to come up with a solution.

It is simply unacceptable that past or present service personnel should be denied equal access to the services on which we all depend. Creating a fair deal for our armed forces past and present is at the core of the armed forces covenant. That is why in the Armed Forces Act 2011 this Government enshrined in law the two key principles of the covenant: that it is desirable to remove disadvantages arising as a result of service or former service; and that special provision for service personnel and their families may be justified to mitigate the effects of service, especially for the wounded or bereaved. I believe we are making a good start, but it is arrogant in the extreme to believe we can solve the many long-standing issues—some of which have been raised by Members this afternoon—in a single year.

Today’s first statutory report covers progress over the full scope of the armed forces covenant, including the four fields specified in the 2011 Act: health care, education, housing and the operation of inquests. I shall address each in turn.

On health care, the covenant has a particular resonance for those who have suffered injuries or health problems in the service. The importance we place on this is exemplified by the sign above the door of Colonel Kevin Beaton, commanding officer of the Royal College of Defence Medicine in Birmingham:

“The military patient, their Family and their Unit, we call our ‘Patient Group’. They are the most important people in The Royal Centre for Defence Medicine Clinical Unit. It is our privilege to be entrusted with the care and support of our Patient Groups on behalf of an indebted nation. We are not doing them a favour by looking after them. They are the reason we are here. Proudly serving them provides the overriding purpose behind all we do. They are our Main Effort.”

I can think of no finer way of expressing that sentiment, and I hope all Members agree with it, not least the hon. Member for Birmingham, Edgbaston (Ms Stuart), as she has the privilege of having that unit in her constituency.

I take medical treatment for our armed forces personnel very seriously. In the three months I have been in post, I have sought to learn as much as possible about the medical support we provide to them. I have visited the Role 3 hospital at Camp Bastion, the Queen Elizabeth hospital in Birmingham, the Defence Medical Rehabilitation Centre at Headley Court, the personnel recovery centre at Tedworth house—run by that wonderful charity, Help for Heroes—and the headquarters of Defence Medical Services near Lichfield. Most recently, I had the honour to participate in a game of wheelchair basketball at the new Battle Back centre at Lilleshall, which I helped to open, and I can attest that fighting spirit and competitiveness are still present in abundance when that sport is played; I still have the blisters on my hands to prove it.

In the course of those visits, I have seen the medical process end to end, and I can say with confidence that the treatment we provide to injured personnel is world class, a sentiment that I know is shared by, among others, our American counterparts. Wherever they are in the world, the men and women who provide this care should be immensely proud that the Care Quality Commission described the provision as exemplary. It is.

On education, the pledges made in the covenant are being well received by schools and service families alike. The Department for Education allows infant schools to increase class sizes beyond 30 to admit the children of service personnel. Where resources permit, admissions authorities also have the flexibility to give priority admission to these children.

Oxfordshire county council has altered its schools admissions policy, allowing places to be allocated to children of service families in advance of a posting, based on a letter from the relevant unit. That is a small change, but it has a very big impact, as it gets around the Catch-22 that people cannot apply for a school place until they have moved to an area, and if they move after the beginning of the school year they are caught. We have changed the rules, and this change is being mirrored by a number of local education authorities around the country, with the backing of the Department for Education.

My hon. Friend the Member for New Forest East (Dr Lewis), the hon. Member for Colchester and others raised the subject of housing, and it remains a key issue for the armed forces community. Today’s report points to areas of progress, but also acknowledges that more needs to be done. Some 94% of accommodation for service families is in the top two of four categories. The single living accommodation modernisation programme has delivered almost 5,000 modernised, en-suite rooms in 2011-12, and we are on track to meet our target of 50% of trained personnel being housed in the highest standard of accommodation by March 2013.

In parallel, we are encouraging service families to explore the choice of owning their own home. Armed forces personnel have been placed at the top of the priority list for all Government-funded home ownership schemes, and service leavers retain that status for up to 12 months after leaving. The level of home ownership among service families has risen from 55% to 60% over the past two years.

Next I shall deal with the operation of inquests. Tragically, operations in Afghanistan have shown, once again, that members of our armed forces can face mortal danger. Above all else, that is why we owe them not only our respect, but the peace of mind that we will care for their families in the event of their death. We should do everything to ensure that the plight of grieving families is not compounded by inadequacies in helping them to understand the circumstances in which their loved ones died. I am encouraged that waiting times for coroners’ inquests have been falling since 2003, including under the previous Government, and maintaining that trend will be a priority. This year, the Government fulfilled their pledge to appoint a chief coroner—we appointed Peter Thornton—and to publish a new national charter for the coroner service. I will meet Mr Thornton on 18 December to discuss how the Ministry of Defence can assist him further in what we agree is vital work.

Steps have also been taken in a number of additional areas to uphold the values and ideals of the covenant. We recognise, for example, that the process of adapting to civilian life can be daunting. Through the career transition partnership, the MOD provides outstanding career support to service leavers, with the result that 97% of those who use that service will find employment within 12 months. That is an impressive record.

We also encourage local authorities to appoint armed forces champions as a voice within local government, where a great many pledges within the covenant are delivered. In this regard, I am delighted to report to the House that some 230 local authorities in England, Scotland and Wales have signed the community covenant—this is spreading like a benign virus—and I sincerely hope that almost all will have done so by Remembrance day next November.

As announced recently in this House, the new defence discount service will offer a membership card allowing members to access a range of discounts from companies such as Vodafone, Vue Cinemas and Vision Express. I was delighted to join the Prime Minister yesterday to present cards to a number of veterans and serving personnel.

I also wish to express my gratitude for the contribution of the covenant reference group, which includes voluntary and charitable bodies, private organisations and individuals. The Government committed themselves to publishing the external members’ observations verbatim, alongside the annual report, and today we uphold that promise.

Of particular concern to the families federations is service accommodation. They comment that the

“availability of Service Families Accommodation in some areas is insufficient”

and that

“higher priority must be given to maintaining and enhancing the quality of all Service-provided accommodation”.

To many service families, a decent home is the physical embodiment of the covenant. We are working to address these concerns, and I hope we will be in a position to provide further information to the House in due course.

Members of the reference group acknowledged the high priority given to the covenant by the Prime Minister, the Cabinet Office and the MOD. The appointment of a chief coroner was described as being “hugely significant” and

“of real long-term benefit to bereaved Armed Forces families”.

There is praise also for our progress in addressing disadvantage for armed forces children and in providing better support to deployed personnel and their families. Most encouraging to me is the observation that the covenant is changing attitudes to the armed forces community.

I must allow the Chairman of the Select Committee back in, so I shall draw my remarks to a close. The armed forces covenant is a work in progress, an ongoing pledge that has support from those in all parts of the House. Each and every year we will come before this House with, to borrow a military term, a “SitRep”, giving a state of play on the covenant and our obligations under it. While I hold this post, I am absolutely determined that we will demonstrate real progress year on year, put flesh on the bones of the covenant and honour the people to whom we owe so much.

Ex-service Personnel (Psychological Welfare)

Mark Francois Excerpts

Thursday 6th December 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North (Jim Sheridan) on securing this debate on the mental health of our former service personnel. I thank him for his courtesy in giving me some idea of the issues that he intended to raise.

This is a vital subject in which cross-Government working is having a real impact. Although the four UK Health Departments hold primary responsibility for the issue, I naturally take a very close interest in it given my veterans portfolio. I hope that in the previous debate on armed forces personnel I was able to persuade the House that in the three months in which I have been doing the job I have taken a very close interest particularly in the medical issues that affect personnel and veterans.

That said, I must regretfully disagree with the charges that the hon. Gentleman laid against this Government. We are investing in mental health at every juncture of a service career. From recruitment, to deployment, to discharge and transition into civilian life, the Ministry of Defence and the Department of Health have made funding available for extensive support to serving personnel and veterans who encounter mental health problems.

Let me also say that the Government very much welcome the role played by service charities. It is entirely appropriate that we should look to harness their niche capability and expertise to maximise the quality of support given to the service community. In many cases, this support is provided by a partnership with Government, and that should be celebrated rather than regretted.

As the former Defence Secretary, my right hon. Friend the Member for North Somerset (Dr Fox), announced on 6 October last year, the Government accepted all the recommendations in “Fighting Fit”, the report by the Under-Secretary of State, my hon. Friend the Member for South West Wiltshire (Dr Murrison), which now forms the backbone of the work being done across Government to improve mental health care for service personnel and veterans. I can report good progress in delivering those recommendations. The hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North specifically talked about veterans, but I will briefly set out the context of our overall strategy for mental health.

While serving, all personnel, including reservists, are encouraged to report distress or mental health concerns. We have introduced a process called trauma risk management, or TRiM—a peer group support system that is helping to identify those at risk and provide support to them.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

From what I have heard, there is extremely good counselling in the field after incidents have occurred. People zone in on those affected, immediately and without delay, and check them out as best they can.

[Mr Francois]

I am grateful to my hon. Friend for that important intervention.

TRiM was initially developed by the Royal Marines. It involves training non-specialists in military units to lead discussions about traumatic events and spot those who may need additional help. We make sure that we have mental health professionals forward deployed in theatre, exactly along the lines that my hon. Friend the Member for Beckenham (Bob Stewart) mentioned, to deal with such eventualities if and when they occur. We deploy uniformed mental health teams to provide care on the front line. Regular psychological health assessments are conducted to ensure that support in theatre is sufficient and, if needed, a UK-based team of a psychiatrist and mental health nurse can deploy to theatre at short notice if an incident warrants it.

At the end of an operational tour, units undergo decompression—an opportunity to unwind and talk about their experiences. At this point, personnel also receive a series of briefings designed to help them adapt to their return from deployment, and mental health is one of the specific issues raised.

Specific measures are also in place for those leaving the service. After a successful regional pilot, structured mental health assessments were rolled out nationally in July 2012 as part of routine and discharge medicals. We hope they will be useful in highlighting mental health problems at an early stage.

To ease transition from military to civilian life, personnel with identified mental health issues can access military departments of community mental health up to six months after discharge. There are 15 such departments across the United Kingdom, providing specialist mental health support to military personnel. In addition, GP registration forms in England, Scotland and Wales now enable those who have served to declare this when registering with a doctor’s practice, providing an opportunity to discuss their unique needs, if they so wish.

On the specific steps that we are taking for veterans, the Department of Health, working with South Staffordshire and Shropshire mental health trust, has put in place a national veterans mental health network. This brings together NHS clinicians, the Ministry of Defence, Combat Stress and others to assess the implementation of the recommendations made by the Under-Secretary. The network’s first full meeting was in Stafford on 29 October and a national conference will take place in March 2013. I also take this opportunity to place on the record our appreciation for the valuable work done by Combat Stress, and I am looking forward to a meeting with its chief executive, Mr Andrew Cameron, in the next few days.

Armed forces networks, whose role is to provide links between the forces and the wider community on health issues, are beginning to implement veterans mental health projects in each former strategic health authority area. I am delighted to report that there are now more than 50 extra veterans mental health professionals in the NHS across the various armed forces networks in England, which is 20 more than originally recommended by my hon. Friend. I do not, therefore, accept the point made by the hon. Member for Paisley and Renfrewshire North about lack of resources, although I accept that he made it in good faith.

In his report, my hon. Friend acknowledged the value of the medical assessment programme, which offers assessments to ex-service personnel suffering mental health problems. On 29 October, the MAP was relocated with the reserves mental health programme at Chilwell, Nottingham, to form the veteran and reserves mental health programme. This more central location in the middle of the country will, we believe, make for easier access and ensure that high standards of clinical oversight are maintained.

More than 2,500 members of the armed forces community are now registered to use the Big White Wall, which the hon. Gentleman mentioned. It is a website that allows users to talk anonymously about mental health issues. Early indications suggest that it is proving a valuable means of interaction without the stigma sometimes attached to mental health. User surveys are reporting significant reductions in stress and anxiety, not least because individuals can raise issues anonymously, if they so choose.

Plans are also maturing for the veterans information service, a means of providing advice to veterans on accessing services and support for health issues related to their military service. When launched, all veterans who leave the armed forces will be contacted by letter or e-mail after 12 months, so that we can check how they are getting on.

On work in the nations and regions, I recently met Keith Brown MSP, the Scottish Minister for Transport and Veterans, to discuss the steps the Scottish Government are taking on veterans’ issues. In addition to maintaining support for specialist mental health services for the next three years, they will fund and seek to expand the Veterans First Point service, an advice centre designed to help veterans and their families during the transition to civilian life.

In Wales, the all Wales veterans health and wellbeing service is providing access to specialist outpatient care and signposting veterans and their families to other support that they may require. It offers access to therapists with expertise in veterans’ mental health to provide assessment, treatment and referral. Treatment options include commissioning the services of Combat Stress, which works in partnership with the service to provide nurse-led community support groups.

In Northern Ireland—I should place on the record that the hon. Member for Strangford (Jim Shannon) was present for part of this debate—a specialist aftercare service was established in 2007 to address the unique requirements of veterans of the Ulster Defence Regiment and the Royal Irish Regiment home service, and their dependants. Each year, that widely praised aftercare service deals with about 4,500 cases, providing welfare support and medical services, including mental health support.

[Jim Sheridan]

Is the Minister aware that a significant number of veterans are serving prison sentences or are on parole? The American system is different because it tracks the crimes of ex-service personnel. I am not suggesting for a minute that people should be able to commit crimes and get away with them, but is there something that we could do in Britain to copy the American system?

[Mr Francois]

I have looked into this matter and am advised that the proportion of veterans in prison is no higher than the proportion of the civilian population that is in prison. We need to do what we can through rehabilitation and other means to help those people, just as we would help others.

The Department of Health in England has extended its funding of the Combat Stress and Rethink 24-hour mental health helpline for service personnel, families and veterans. In addition, the Department of Health, in partnership with the Royal College of General Practitioners, has put in place training packages for GPs to raise awareness of the unique needs of armed forces families and veterans.

On a broader point, in line with the principles of the armed forces covenant—we launched the report on that today—the Government have reaffirmed that veterans in England should be given priority NHS treatment for conditions related to service, subject to the clinical needs of others. The Scottish and Welsh Governments accord the same priority to veterans. That is important, given that one in 10 adults in the United Kingdom is now a veteran, going right back through the second world war, Northern Ireland and other conflicts up to the present day. A high proportion of our population have served their country in uniform in one way or another.

The hon. Gentleman referred specifically to post-traumatic stress disorder. I was delighted to be able to visit King’s College London recently, not least because some time ago that was where I completed my master’s degree in war studies. To some extent, I was going back to my alma mater. While there, I met Professor Simon Wessely and his internationally renowned team in the King’s centre for military health research. Mental health issues, particularly PTSD, have been a key focus of his research, which the MOD continues to fund. I was reassured by Professor Wessely that comparatively low rates of PTSD are being recorded in the service community. The evidence indicates that the mental health of the armed forces remains robust, but naturally we will do our utmost to help the minority who develop PTSD or other mental illnesses.

In addition to the measures that are already in place, we have made provision for the training for primary health care staff to raise awareness of PTSD. Defence Medical Services has more than 200 mental health professionals who provide specialist support to service personnel and, as I have mentioned, additional personnel are available in the NHS to augment the existing capability. I have also mentioned the veterans and reserves mental health programme, which the MOD continues to fund. The Department of Health has agreed to fund the provision of acute PTSD services by Combat Stress with £3.5 million a year for five years. As I have said, I shall be meeting Andrew Cameron shortly to discuss how that money can best be deployed.

The hon. Gentleman asked about the Christmas Island veterans. I hope that he will forgive me, but I have concentrated my remarks on mental health. The fairest thing that I can say is that I will write to him about that issue. I hope, under the circumstances, that he regards that as acceptable.

I think that what I have said gives an indication of the importance the Government attach to the treatment of the mental health problems of our service personnel and veterans. Although we have long been aware of the implications of physical injury to our armed forces personnel, it is fair to say that for a long period there has been a stigma surrounding mental health. We are starting fully to recognise and deal with the impact on the lives of those who suffer from such issues. It is to the credit of the previous Government that work was done to begin to address these issues on their watch. The House can rest assured that the current Government will continue to do all that we practically can to look after service personnel and veterans who develop mental health issues. These people are important to our country and we must do our best for them.

Question put and agreed to.

Advisory Group on Military Medicine

Mark Francois Excerpts

Wednesday 5th December 2012 Written Statements

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

I am today announcing the start of the triennial review of the Advisory Group on Military Medicine (AGoMM). Triennial reviews of non-departmental public bodies (NDPBs) are part of the Government’s commitment to ensuring that NDPBs continue to have regular challenge on their remit and governance arrangements.

AGoMM provides independent, specialist advice to the Ministry of Defence, as required, on the policy for medical issues within medical force protection, and for clinical treatments used on operations.

The AGoMM review is to be conducted in accord with Government guidance for reviewing non-departmental public bodies, and will consider the effectiveness of how the functions of AGoMM are currently delivered, whether there is a need for the function and the advisory NDPB to continue, and if so, how the function might best be delivered in future. The review will be led by a member of the Surgeon-General’s senior staff who is not involved with the day-to-day business of the group.

Key stakeholders are being informed of the review and invited to submit views. The aim is to complete the review and announce the outcome by 31 March 2013.