Oral Answers to Questions

Mark Francois Excerpts

Monday 26th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[Jessica Lee (Erewash) (Con)]

16. what steps his Department is taking to increase the number of cadet forces in the UK.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

As announced by the Prime Minister and Deputy Prime Minister on Armed Forces day, the Department for Education and the Ministry of Defence are working together to enable 100 more state-funded schools to have cadet units by 2015. The extra cadet units will be formed through partnerships with existing units, or by self-standing new units, both using third-party sponsorship funding. The departments have identified £10.85 million to meet the programme’s training and equipment costs. More than 50 schools have already registered their interest, and the joint departmental team, supported by the reserve forces and cadets associations, will work with schools to develop the most appropriate cadet option for them.

[Stephen Mosley]

I welcome my right hon. Friend’s answer. I recently had the pleasure of attending my local sea cadets, TS Deva, which like other sea cadet groups does not receive much financial assistance from the Ministry of Defence. Has my right hon. Friend considered whether the MOD could provide more support to sea cadets?

[Mr Francois]

I commend my hon. Friend for supporting the cadet movement in his constituency, which I am sure will be genuinely grateful for his support. Sea Cadets receives financial assistance from the Ministry of Defence, and as part of the memorandum of understanding it received £8 million as grant in aid from the Royal Navy. It also raises money from trusts and legacies and through fund raising events locally and more widely. We wish it every success in its endeavours.

[Jessica Lee]

In my constituency of Erewash we are lucky enough to have fine cadets across all the armed forces, learning skills and providing exemplary services to the community. Does my right hon. Friend agree that the best way of promoting cadets is to support the community work they undertake across the country?

[Mr Francois]

I am happy to agree with my hon. Friend’s assertion. Activities such as those offered by the cadets and inviting armed service leaders into the classroom help to instil qualities such as confidence, self-discipline and responsibility, while developing team work and leadership skills. Experience from the military and education sectors has demonstrated how those core values can help pupils reach their academic potential and become well rounded and accomplished adults, fully prepared for life beyond school. The Government very much encourage the movement, and I am grateful that my hon. Friend gives it her personal support.

[Mr Nicholas Brown (Newcastle upon Tyne East) (Lab)]

I support the Minister in what he is trying to do and draw his attention to the excellent work carried out at Walker Technology college and Heaton Manor school in my constituency. Is a core problem the way in which the BTEC in uniformed public services counts towards the evaluation of state-funded schools more generally? I know the Education Secretary is aware of that problem, and it will have to be overcome if cadet forces are to flourish in state schools.

[Mr Francois]

The right hon. Gentleman knows that part of the new programme of expansion is deliberately aimed at state schools—I take it he welcomes that. I take on board the point about the BTEC. I recently met Lord Hill, the Under-Secretary of State at the Department for Education, to discuss how we can further increase the cadet movement in schools, and when we next meet I will ensure the issue is on the agenda. It would be helpful if the right hon. Gentleman and some of his colleagues used their links with the trade union movement to ensure the fullest possible participation among trade unions in helping to support cadet units.

[Mrs Mary Glindon (North Tyneside) (Lab)]

Will the Minister join me in congratulating the air cadets of 2344 (Longbenton) Squadron on being made the Newcastle Evening Chronicle’s children and young people’s champion 2012 for their outstanding work with young people? Does the success of that exemplary cadet squadron show how important it is for the Minister to increase the number of cadet forces across all our communities?

[Mr Francois]

I am glad to add congratulations from the Dispatch Box to those of the hon. Lady, and I hope they will appear prominently in her local newspaper. She might be aware that the cadet movement has more than 140,000 members, of whom at the latest count 35,700 are members of the Air Training Corps. As the House has heard, the Government are trying to increase those numbers further because we appreciate the values that cadets bring to our society.

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

3. What assessment he has made of likely UK military commitments in Afghanistan in 2015.

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[Nadhim Zahawi (Stratford-on-Avon) (Con)]

15. What support he has received from major employers for the proposals set out in his reserves Green Paper.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

The Government are fully committed to delivering reserve forces that are integral to and integrated with the regular forces, and we are investing an additional £1.8 billion over the next 10 years to meet that aim. Our aspirations, as set out in the “Future Reserves 2020” Green Paper, will require a closer relationship with employers, based on partnering and on giving greater predictability and certainty to the employer, the reservist and the Ministry of Defence.

[Julie Hilling]

What specific support have the Government put in place for small and medium-sized enterprises to employ reservists, given that SMEs will face the greatest struggle to achieve this?

[Mr Francois]

When we mobilise a reservist we already provide financial assistance to employers, to help both with recruiting an additional employee and to pay some marginal additional costs for their employment in certain circumstances. We are examining this area extremely closely in the context of the Green Paper and if we have further proposals to announce to strengthen things even further, we will make them plain in the White Paper in the spring of next year.

[Nadhim Zahawi]

What additional cash support will be targeted at SMEs?

[Mr Francois]

I have told the House that we provide some financial support to employers when we mobilise a reservist. We are examining this closely in the context of the Green Paper, but I encourage my hon. Friend to submit any specific suggestions to the Green Paper process. I should also add that companies such as BT, Carillion, Serco, the Automobile Association and BAE Systems have shown their support to our reservists in the consultation process, but clearly we would like to see more contributions from SMEs, too.

[Mr Kevan Jones (North Durham) (Lab)]

Earlier this year, the Government announced quite radical changes to our reserve forces. I understand that the recruitment campaign has already begun. What confidence does the Minister have that those recruited will have their employment rights protected without a change in the law? Will he update us on where the Department is with the review of Defence Estates?

[Mr Francois]

I take a close interest in this matter. I spent the best part of a day at Army HQ last week going in detail through proposals to increase the size of the reserve forces. We are considering the issue extremely closely. The Green Paper asks employers and others whether we might need primary legislation to change some of the terms, but as the consultation has only just begun it is perhaps a little rich of the hon. Gentleman to ask me what the answer is.

[Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Con)]

6. What steps he is taking to enable small and medium-sized enterprises to bid for procurement contracts with his Department.

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[Caroline Nokes (Romsey and Southampton North) (Con)]

17. What comparative assessment he has made of the value and terms of armed forces pensions and other public sector pensions.

The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois): There are currently two armed forces pension schemes in operation, known as armed forces pension scheme 75 and armed forces pension scheme 05. These are due to be superseded in 2015 by what is currently referred to as the future armed forces pension scheme. That scheme was born out of the recommendations of Lord Hutton’s independent public service pension commission report.

[Caroline Nokes]

As a member of the armed forces parliamentary scheme, I often have the opportunity to discuss pension provision with serving members of the armed forces. Surprisingly, not only those coming to the end of their term of service but young soldiers too raise the issue. What steps are being taken better to communicate to service personnel the future terms and conditions of their pensions?

[Mr Francois]

When I was in Camp Bastion two weeks ago for the remembrance celebrations, I had the pleasure of meeting a dozen or so regimental sergeant majors, who impressed upon me—at close range, shall we say?—a number of questions about pensions. Perhaps I could help to reassure them and my hon. Friend. John Moore-Bick, who heads the Forces Pension Society, which is expert in this matter, has said that the new pension scheme is

“as good as it gets”.

We are redoubling our efforts to explain that to serving personnel, including by developing a new pensions calculator from the middle of next year, so that they can plug in all the details on how pensions will affect them and get a clear answer.

[Gemma Doyle (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op)]

Last week, the Secretary of State announced plans to allow serving personnel to access their pension funds early to buy a house. Will the Minister confirm that an individual who takes up that offer will therefore receive lower pension payments in future?

[Mr Francois]

Lord Hutton’s report confirmed that the armed forces pension schemes in general stood up very well compared with others in terms of benefits to members. We should bear it in mind that, unlike many other schemes, the armed forces scheme will remain non-contributory and that the normal pension age will be lower than it is for most other schemes. Personnel will also qualify for an early payment at age 40. We are looking at incentives to assist servicemen to purchase their own homes. That is actively being worked on but no final decisions have been taken.

[Iain Stewart (Milton Keynes South) (Con)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

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[Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con)]

T6. I have had the opportunity to visit a number of living quarters as a member of the armed forces parliamentary scheme. What investment are the Government making to improve the quality of both single and family accommodation for our armed forces?

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

I assure my hon. Friend that we take the issue of accommodation very seriously. Within a week of my appointment, I attended an Army Families Federation conference where one corporal in particular raised with me the issue of his quarters at Aldershot. Two weeks later I went to knock on his door to see them for myself. I hope that that counts as taking it seriously. We have recently put £100 million back into the budget for accommodation. We anticipate further announcements on this subject in the context of the basing review.

[Ms Gisela Stuart (Birmingham, Edgbaston) (Lab)]

In his exchanges with my hon. Friend the Member for Barnsley Central (Dan Jarvis), the Secretary of State agreed about the need to deal with corruption in Afghanistan. I understand that the first prosecutions in relation to the Kabul bank scandal are taking place. Is the Secretary of State convinced that there are any prisons in Afghanistan at the moment that would be secure enough to hold anybody convicted?

[David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)]

T7. Some weeks ago in Prime Minister’s Question Time I raised an issue relating to my constituent Emma Hickman, whose fiancé had died in Afghanistan and who was having difficulty determining a paternity because a DNA sample had not been released by the MOD. May I thank the Minister of State for the work he has done on this case, which is almost resolved? Will he consider asking the Army to hold DNA samples routinely for those on active duty, as happens in France and the United States?

[Mr Francois]

I thank my hon. Friend for his kind remarks. It has been a long journey, but I believe we are nearly there. On his wider question, it is current Ministry of Defence policy to offer all military deployable MOD civilians and other entitled personnel the opportunity to provide reference samples suitable for DNA analysis. This is entirely voluntary and is to enable identification post mortem, should that unfortunately be required. The policy is under review, and I can confirm that the United States position is being considered. I expect this work to be complete by spring 2013.

[Nick Smith (Blaenau Gwent) (Lab)]

The Army cadet forces outreach programme aims to reach troubled youngsters and deter them from a life of crime. Will the Secretary of State commit to expanding this programme?

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[Robert Halfon (Harlow) (Con)]

T8. In Harlow, we are fortunate to have a strong Royal British Legion that has raised more than £45,000 for ex-servicemen so far this year. Harlow and Essex have now signed up to the Royal British Legion’s community covenant, but 200 local authorities have not done so. Will the Minister urge them to sign up today and back the Royal British Legion?

[Mr Francois]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question. May I take this opportunity to place on record our gratitude for everything that the Royal British Legion does in support of our servicemen and women, and of course our veterans and their families? I was in Essex when Harlow, among others, signed the community covenant. It is wonderful that more than 200 local authorities across the United Kingdom have signed the community covenant, which helps to give effect to the armed forces covenant at local government level. I recently wrote a joint letter with Sir Merrick Cockell, chairman of the Local Government Association, congratulating councils that have signed the community covenant and gently urging those that have not to do so. We would like every local authority in the land to sign it, if possible, and that is what we are working towards.

Military Covenant

Mark Francois Excerpts

Wednesday 21st November 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

I greatly welcome the opportunity to open this important debate on behalf of Her Majesty’s Government. It is a particular pleasure to respond to the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson). As he knows, I have taken an interest in Northern Ireland matters down the years. In fact, some years ago I visited Northern Ireland as his guest. We are debating a serious subject, but I hope the right hon. Gentleman will not mind my telling the House that I also bumped into him in 2009, when I was in Northern Ireland during the European elections. We were each separately with our respective campaign teams when we came around the same corner. As politicians do on these occasions, we exchanged some banter, and one of the right hon. Gentleman’s fellow campaigners described me as a “communist.” I have been called a number of things down the years, but that was a personal first for me. I have happy memories of that trip, and I was determined when I saw this debate coming up to get that quote into Hansard.

Let me begin by saying that we greatly value the contribution that all our armed forces make, and in particular that made by the Irish regiments over the years. The right hon. Gentleman and some of his colleagues rightly touched on that. As evidence of this contribution, one statistic stands out. Some 173 Victoria Crosses have been awarded to members of the armed forces who were Irish. That is more than one in eight of all such awards, including the first ever Victoria Cross, which was awarded to Charles Lucas from Scarva—in the constituency of the hon. Member for Upper Bann (David Simpson)—which he earned while serving as a mate on HMS Hecla in 1854. Following a swift promotion to captain, Charles Lucas eventually retired at the rank of rear-admiral. So that is a not a bad start for the VC.

Continuing this naval theme, I should like to mention HMS Caroline, about which there has been good news following our decision to gift the vessel to the National Museum of the Royal Navy. It has agreed to keep the vessel in Belfast, where it has been berthed since 1924.

[Oliver Colvile (Plymouth, Sutton and Devonport) (Con)]

HMS Caroline was built in the Devonport dockyard and it is the last surviving ship from the battle of Jutland, at which my grandfather was a gunnery officer on HMS Valiant. This is incredibly good news, therefore, and I will make sure everybody in Plymouth rejoices.

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[Mr Francois]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend’s grandfather and his service in that epic battle, and I pay tribute to my hon. Friend for being so fleet of foot with his intervention.

As my hon. Friend has taken a close interest in this ship, he will know that HMS Caroline, a light cruiser, was built in 1914, measures 128 metres and was capable of a top speed of 28.5 knots. She is the last surviving warship of the battle of Jutland and before decommissioning was the second oldest ship in the Royal Navy. Her parts are 85% original—which is more than can be said for some Members of this House—and she is the only vessel in the world from the time of the great war still to have its original engines. A recent National Heritage Memorial Fund grant of £1 million, supplemented by £100,000 from the Northern Ireland Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment, will enable urgent repairs to be carried out on the vessel. We very much hope that she will be open to paying visitors by the centenary of the battle of Jutland in 2016 and, together with the Titanic centre, will be a focus for tourism around Belfast’s great maritime history.

[Mr Dodds]

The Minister mentioned his previous visits to Northern Ireland. He will be permanently and for ever welcome in Northern Ireland as a result of the good news about HMS Caroline—the Prime Minister announced it but the Minister followed up recently. This has been an excellent example of working together between Whitehall, the Northern Ireland Executive and my colleague Arlene Foster, Belfast city council and the Friends of HMS Caroline. This fantastic news has been warmly welcomed throughout Belfast and Northern Ireland, and we say well done to the Government.

[Mr Francois]

I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his kind words. I have to report to the House that there has been a leak, because my speech says, “This has been an excellent example of practical co-operation between the Ministry of Defence, the national museum of the Royal Navy and the Northern Ireland Executive.” He also rightly mentioned the friends group. In all seriousness, this is one where everybody got it right. It is proper and appropriate that HMS Caroline remains in Belfast, and I hope to be able to visit her at some point in the near future. So I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his kind words and the spirit in which they are offered.

In more recent times, the contribution of those who served alongside the Army in the former Royal Ulster Constabulary has also been remembered, most notably through the awarding of the George Cross to the RUC. I also pay tribute today to the work of the Royal Ulster Constabulary George Cross Foundation and the Northern Ireland Police Fund, which look after former members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary and current members of the Police Service of Northern Ireland so well. In the same vein, I should like to pay tribute to the veterans of the Royal Irish Regiment and its home service battalions and the Ulster Defence Regiment. It is for them that the bespoke Royal Irish aftercare service, to which the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley (Mr Donaldson) rightly paid tribute, is in operation. Funded by the Ministry of Defence, that important organisation has supported a client population of up to 63,000 veterans in the delivery of psychiatry, physiotherapy and welfare casework. I will undertake to look at his suggestion as to whether that service could be extended to other members of the armed forces in Northern Ireland, but I must enter the obvious caveat that that is subject to resource constraints. So we will look at that, but standing at the Dispatch Box this evening I cannot guarantee a positive outcome.

Such proud traditions of service continue right up to the present generation. I, too, should mention the sad death of Corporal Channing Day, who grew up in Northern Ireland and joined the Army in 2005. Corporal Day, who served with 3 Medical Regiment, died alongside Corporal David O’Connor, of 40 Commando, after being injured on patrol in Helmand province on Wednesday 24 October. The Minister of State, Northern Ireland Office, my hon. Friend the Member for Hemel Hempstead (Mike Penning) had the privilege of attending her funeral service, which was said to have been the largest that the small church had seen in some 400 years. I pay tribute to Corporal Day and Corporal O’Connor this evening, and in doing so I echo a number of the tributes that have been paid by the right hon. Gentleman and his colleagues tonight.

In terms of current operations, I should also like to mention the personnel of 204 field hospital, who are shortly about to deploy from Northern Ireland to Afghanistan to serve as part of the role 3 hospital at Camp Bastion and to provide other medical services to troops in theatre. I recently had the privilege of visiting Camp Bastion and the hospital, and I laid a wreath to commemorate those who had fallen in operations in Afghanistan.

I should now like to turn directly to the armed forces covenant. As the House knows, its key principles are enshrined in law in the Armed Forces Act 2011. I am proud to say that the Government published the covenant in May 2011. In essence, its principles are: that those who serve in the armed forces, whether regular or reserve, and those who have served in the past, and their families should face no disadvantage compared with other citizens in the provision of public and commercial services; and that special consideration is appropriate in some cases, especially for those who have given most, such as the injured and the bereaved. The covenant extends to the armed forces community, which is defined as serving personnel, including members of the reserve forces; veterans; and their families. I thank the right hon. Gentleman for his generous tribute to the reserves as well as to the regulars.

[John Glen (Salisbury) (Con)]

Will the Minister take time to consider the interaction between the MOD and the Department for Work and Pensions on benefit payments and armed forces compensation scheme payments? The compensation scheme payments invalidate claimants’ eligibility for some DWP payments, which seems very wrong. Special consideration should be given in such circumstances.

[Mr Francois]

I am aware of the issue and pay tribute to my hon. Friend for his persistence on these and related matters. We had an Adjournment debate recently on a parallel issue, although not exactly the same one. I believe that we are doing what we can to try to solve the problem, but as it is quite technical, as he knows, if he wants to write to me on the specific points I would be happy to look into them and get back to him.

In common with other legislation, the provisions of the 2011 Act extend to Northern Ireland in the same way as they apply to all other parts of the United Kingdom. Those principles are important because they influence the formation of policy, but there are other sides to the covenant, too. One of those is the community covenant, which seeks to bring together local authorities and other local organisations with members of the armed forces community who live and serve in the area for which they are responsible. To date, more than 200 local authorities across the United Kingdom have signed a community covenant. I am proud to say that in Essex the other day, I signed that covenant on behalf of the Government in my own county, and some 13 local authorities signed one after the other.

We are clear that by forging such relationships the community covenant is starting to have a positive impact on the lives of the armed forces community and on the wider community. For example, in Gateshead the council is making arrangements, among many other measures, to explore opportunities for serving personnel and veterans to access leisure facilities to support their overall health and well-being needs, including their mental health needs.

In Oxfordshire, the county council, by working with the NHS and 145 (South) Brigade, has been able to help resolve problems of access to GPs and dentists for the families of serving personnel. Dental services have also been extended in some areas to address a shortfall and the referral process for primary care services has been made easier.

Also in Oxfordshire, the local authority has arranged for school places to be allocated to service families in advance of the family’s actual move, based on a letter from the relevant unit. That has been a long-standing problem when military units move from one location to another, but I understand that the Department for Education is now encouraging other local authorities to take a similar approach to try to alleviate the difficulty.

In the past, members of the armed forces could also be pushed towards the bottom of local housing waiting lists, as the need to move from base to base often meant they could not prove a local connection to the area in which they wanted to live, but, thanks again to the armed forces covenant, many local councils will now ensure that due consideration is given to service families so that they are not at a disadvantage when applying for a council home. That extends to serving people, families and, importantly, veterans.

One of the chief benefits of the community covenant is quite simply that people are now talking to one another in a way that they never did before. To some degree, we are doing that in the House this evening. Local authorities, which deliver many of the vital services at ground level, are being made aware of the needs of the armed forces community, which they might not have considered fully in the past. At the same time, it is fair to say that service personnel and their families are becoming increasingly aware of what life is like beyond the wire and how they can help their local communities.

As the House knows, the 2011 Act also places an obligation on the Secretary of State for Defence to report annually to Parliament on the state of the armed forces covenant. The first of these statutory reports will be published before Christmas and will set out in more detail what the Government are doing to deliver in the key areas that the covenant covers.

I now want to speak about extending the armed forces covenant to Northern Ireland. Hon. and right hon. Members from Northern Ireland will be aware that many of the main areas covered by the covenant, such as housing, health and education, all lie within the devolved field and that these services are provided by Northern Ireland Departments, which are answerable to Northern Ireland Ministers in the Executive, not all of whom currently support this agenda, as the right hon. Member for Lagan Valley intimated.

Northern Ireland Departments and other public authorities also need to give due regard to the statutory obligations placed on them by section 75 of the Northern Ireland Act to promote equality of opportunity in respect of all the functions they perform and the services they provide. Herein, as it were, lies the dilemma. It is not for Westminster to tell Stormont what it must do in respect of the covenant—it is for Northern Ireland Executive Ministers to debate and negotiate and agree how the armed forces covenant should apply in Northern Ireland to the extent permitted by law.

There are some who say that section 75 is a hindrance and should be amended to somehow allow the covenant to be applied. Of course we want to see the armed forces covenant principles applied right across the United Kingdom. However, if the Northern Ireland Executive decide not to proceed with the covenant, that does not justify amending section 75, which is one of the cornerstones in the architecture of the Belfast agreement that was endorsed in referendums in both Northern Ireland and the Republic.

I think it is fair to say that Northern Ireland has made great progress since the dark days of the troubles. This month we saw the Taoiseach lay a wreath at the war memorial in Enniskillen following on from the historic wreath layings—both at the garden of remembrance in Dublin and at the Irish war memorial at Islandbridge—by Her Majesty the Queen during her highly successful state visit last year. That, of course, built on the historic joint unveiling in 1998 by Her Majesty and the President of Ireland of the Messines peace tower on the site of the battle of Messines Ridge, to remember the Irish dead of the first world war—also mentioned earlier this evening—and to inaugurate the Island of Ireland peace park.

[Mr Donaldson]

I understand the point that the Minister is making. However, the Northern Ireland Executive have not decided that it should not proceed with the military covenant and Ministers in their Departments are free to proceed with implementation. It is just that the equality provisions in section 75 sometimes present an obstacle to that. The Northern Ireland Act cannot be amended by the Northern Ireland Assembly; that is a matter for this House. That is why we want to discuss with the Government how we can overcome that obstacle.

[Mr Francois]

I think what the right hon. Gentleman has said is very reasonable. I hope that some of the acts of remembrance that I was referring to a few minutes ago will inspire those in the Northern Ireland Executive to work together to find a way forward to apply the covenant principles in a practical manner, and I hear what the right hon. Gentleman has said about their only being able to do so much. I think that that is something we could all discuss when we meet the Prime Minister next month. If, in that time, the right hon. Gentleman can explore what could be done by the Northern Ireland Executive, I believe that would materially inform that discussion. Then we need to see where we can go from there. I will leave it to the Minister of State to say whether there is any more that he can add to that when he winds up at the end of the debate, but I hope that I am replying to the right hon. Gentleman in the spirit in which he intervened on me.

My hon. Friend the Minister of State has invited me to visit Northern Ireland. I have accepted his invitation to visit in the new year, to see for myself how the covenant operates in practice and whether there are any practical difficulties. I hope that it will also be possible for me to meet personnel from 38 Brigade. I think that, after the right hon. Gentleman’s comments, I am now honour-bound to visit a cadet unit as well; and as my own father served in the Royal Navy, perhaps I might be able to squeeze in a visit to HMS Caroline, too.

In conclusion, we appreciate the complex history of Northern Ireland, and the sensitivities in this area, but we also appreciate the valuable service in our armed forces given to the Crown by so many from Northern Ireland—and indeed the whole of the island of Ireland—over many generations. It is important that we remember that service, and that we do our best for those who have served with such distinction—and for their families—because they have helped to keep us free.

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[Patrick Mercer]

Absolutely.

[Mr Francois]

rose—

[Patrick Mercer]

I will, of course, give way to the Minister.

[Mr Francois]

I have not intervened purely to mention the Newark Patriotic Front—oh look, I appear to have done it. [Hon. Members: “ Fund!”] Forgive me—fund. With regard to the question from the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones), the Government are continuing to look at this issue but there is a difficulty concerning patient consent—I am sure my hon. Friend the Member for Newark (Patrick Mercer) with his considerable military experience will understand that. The intention in principle is to evolve a system—we are working on it now—so that when an individual leaves the armed forces and registers with a GP, that GP will be informed that the person is a veteran. If the veteran then begins to present symptoms, including mental symptoms, which might be an effect of their service, the GP will hopefully have been informed that the person was a veteran when they moved across.

We already have TRiM—trauma risk management—in which we invite men or women in a unit to look out for each other. If one of them starts to show signs of mental problems, the others do not shop them, as it were, but encourage them to speak to higher command to get help.

[Patrick Mercer]

As the Minister, with his military experience, will know, those systems have been in place informally for many years. I am not pretending that the measures will be simple, cheap or infallible, but if those who are discharged understand them, we stand a better chance of spending to save.

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[Mr Llwyd]

That may or may not be the case, but in the United States, for example, the authorities talk about 35%. There is a substantial problem and I hope that we are able to look not just at PTSD—that is just one thing—but traumatic brain injury and other conditions. We have yet to see the scale of the fall-out from the first and second Iraq wars and from Afghanistan. However, I think there is a tendency to focus on PTSD. There are literally dozens of other mental health conditions that can affect personnel, including traumatic brain injury and anxiety-related problems, such as obsessive compulsive disorder and depression. The idiosyncratic needs of the veteran community must be taken into account when providing funding for research and treatment.

A paper recently produced by Dr Ian Palmer of the Medical Assessment Programme of King’s College London reported that, based on the findings of a clinic-based study on a self-selecting group of 150 veterans, veterans involved with the NHS mental health service tended to be middle aged, ex-army and male. That demographic picture reinforces the view that mental health problems can take years to develop—from the time of discharge to up to 12 years later.

I gave evidence to the Welsh Affairs Committee, and, as I understand it, so did the Minister. The impression was given that the problem of alcohol misuse was being addressed, and that it was less of a problem than it had been. According to the report, however, 80% of those in this group had misused alcohol, and one quarter had encountered problems with the law. The barriers to seeking help included pride, guilt, shame and remembrance of lost colleagues. Obsessive compulsive symptoms were prevalent among many of those who reported problems readjusting to civilian life, while those not in a stable relationship were less likely to seek help, reinforcing the view that support from loved ones is vital for returning veterans.

Further research would have to be done, but the results are telling. Most crucially, it is clear that psychological assessments should be made mandatory for all those leaving the forces. The shadow Minister and the Minister talked about GPs flagging up patients who have done military service, but I understand that there might be a problem with data protection. I do not know whether that is right, but it needs to be cleared up. The flagging up is perfectly acceptable and a very good idea, but we need to address the data protection issue, so that we can provide a seamless service.

[Mr Francois]

There is a problem with data protection and patient consent, but we believe it can be overcome, and work on that is taking place.

I should declare an interest: King’s College London, to which hon. Members have referred several times, was my alma mater. I did my MA in law studies there. It is widely acknowledged that it has great expertise in the field of service mental health, and if it gives the right hon. Gentleman even slight reassurance, let me say that I am going there next week to meet Professor Simon Wessely and others to learn as much about this as I can.

[Mr Llwyd]

I am extremely grateful to the Minister for that intervention, and I am pleased with his comments. I know that a lot of work is being done, but I also know that a lot of work needs to be done, and I accept and appreciate his remarks in the tone they were given.

We need to address the huge dependency on alcohol and other substances that many armed forces personnel develop. Alcohol is frequently treated as a catalyst to unwinding by those on leave, and it can be no coincidence that many veterans leave active service displaying an overdependence on alcohol. Who am I to talk about that? I have never seen the hell they have been through, and one can understand why it occurs. Nevertheless, counselling on substance misuse must be a vital part of decompression.

During passage of the Armed Forces Act 2011, I tabled amendments based on the recommendations of a parliamentary group on veterans in the criminal justice system, as well as those made in the paper published in 2010. I was unfortunately prevented from sitting on the Bill Committee—the only time I have been unsuccessful in applying for a Bill Committee position in my 20 years in Parliament. I am not sure what happened. I was able to make a contribution on Second Reading and Report, however, and progress has now been made. As I stated, the principles of the military covenant are now enshrined in law, which is important, but we need to go further and ensure not only that we talk about the covenant but that it is a means of delivery for those who need these vital services.

I am pleased to have taken a brief part in this debate. There is good will among Members of all parties in the House to increase awareness of the problems faced by veterans, and the issue has now become popular with the media. We know, for example, that there are thousands of veterans charities doing fantastic work, but perhaps more could be done to link some of them together, to provide specialist services in some corners and add to the Government services being provided.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Francois]

I apologise for interrupting my hon. Friend, but to give all due credit to the Royal Marines, my understanding is that they initially helped to develop the TRiM programme. It was such a success within the brigade and its commandos that it was exported to the rest of the armed forces. It is quite right to pay tribute to the Royal Marines as basically they came up with the programme.

[Oliver Colvile]

I suspect, if I may say so, that the programme is very good because the Royal Marines is a small unit able to deliver it, but there are many lessons to be learned.

Finally, the Royal Navy in Plymouth and Devonport, with the help of the Prime Minister, is doing an enormous amount of work on dementia, because it understands the impact on a family when personnel are abroad. We have a lot to do, and I would be interested to know when we are going to have the debate.

Katrice Lee

Mark Francois Excerpts

Thursday 8th November 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

I congratulate the hon. Member for Hartlepool (Mr Wright) on securing this important debate on the case of his constituent, Mr Richard Lee, whose daughter, Katrice, went missing from a British Army shopping complex in Germany in 1981. I am also aware of the interest shown by my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport (Caroline Dinenage) as constituency MP for Katrice’s mother, and I welcome her contribution to the debate. We have heard two earnest and passionate contributions from both sides of the House; this is a completely bipartisan matter, which is exactly as it should be.

Briefly, may I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Hartlepool for his comments yesterday during Prime Minister’s questions? He asked the first question to the Deputy Prime Minister, and echoed effectively his tribute to our recently fallen personnel in Afghanistan. That was appreciated in the Ministry of Defence, and, I am sure, by the families of those personnel as well.

The Royal Anglian Regiment recently lost Corporal Alex Guy during its tour of Helmand province. Its homecoming was held in Basildon, Essex, this afternoon, and I represented the Government. I pay tribute to that regiment for a fine and well-conducted tour, and thank Mo Larkin, BEM, the mayor of Basildon, and all her staff, for giving it such a wonderfully warm homecoming that was supported by thousands of people in Basildon town centre. I wanted to get that on the record.

The Katrice Lee case is very distressing, and I should like to extend my heartfelt sympathy to the Lee family, who must have suffered terribly since the disappearance of their daughter some 30 years ago. Both hon. Members who have spoken have corresponded with my predecessor on a number of occasions, and they will understand that there are areas of the case that I cannot discuss in detail on the Floor of the House, not least because they relate to an ongoing police investigation. However, I should like to reassure them that the Royal Military Police are currently going to every length to try to discover the truth about what happened to Katrice. I will try and give at least some indication of that in my remarks.

As the hon. Gentleman has outlined, his constituent was a British soldier serving in Germany at the time of his daughter’s disappearance, a posting on which he was accompanied by his then wife, Sharon, Katrice’s mother. On the morning of Saturday 28 November 1981, the Lee family were visited by other family members. It appears that a group of them, including Katrice, went out shopping for provisions for Katrice’s second birthday party, which was planned for that afternoon. The family were shopping in a busy NAAFI shopping complex one mile from the family’s married quarter. This was the day after the last payday before Christmas and, as hon. Members would expect, the shop was therefore understandably very busy. At approximately 11 am, while the family were queuing to pay for their shopping, Katrice was lost from sight, and despite the frantic efforts of the family and staff, could not be found.

Under the NATO status of forces agreement, jurisdiction for the case rested with the Royal Military Police. Area searches were conducted on the ground, by helicopter and by diving teams in the nearby River Lippe. Large numbers of Royal Military Police, German police, British troops and volunteers—large numbers of people—worked tirelessly to try to find Katrice, but sadly, as we know, to no avail.

In February 2000, following a review by the then National Crime Faculty, the Royal Military Police again looked at the investigation and developed new lines of inquiry, which included the arrest and questioning of a former soldier, but ultimately, the case remained unsolved, partly owing to a lack of conclusive evidence, and the investigation was suspended in 2003.

In January 2012 the Royal Military Police reopened the investigation under the name Operation BUTE, and decided to go back to first principles to reinvestigate the case. Essentially, there is now a new police investigation using the very latest techniques and methodologies to explore all possible explanations for Katrice’s disappearance. The investigation team consists of military police personnel supported by experienced civilian investigators—all are trained to national policing standards. Investigators are using the latest Home Office large major inquiry system—the HOLMES 2 computer system—to provide a greater level of analysis of the available investigative material than was previously possible.

Expert advice has also been sought from the Serious Organised Crime Agency operational support team, specialists from the child abduction unit with the US Federal Bureau of Investigation at Quantico, and a range of other leading experts. Where evidence is available, the latest forensic techniques are being used, including DNA, offender profiling and facial age progression techniques. Investigators are also attempting to trace and re-interview the nearly 2,000 people who visited the NAAFI supermarket on the day that Katrice disappeared. We should bear in mind what a busy day it was, as I have explained.

All opportunities, including a planned further appeal on the BBC’s “Crimewatch” programme, which is due to take place later this month, are being pursued. I am advised that in cases of this type, an appeal even many years on can sometimes spark someone to come forward. We can only hope that that will happen in this instance.

Since the launch of Operation BUTE, the Royal Military Police have been engaged with the family using specialist family liaison officers, and every effort has been made to keep them informed of developments. That support to the Lee family will, of course, continue for as long as it needs to. I am conscious that the family, for perfectly understandable reasons, has sought access to files from the original investigation. However, as the hon. Gentleman has acknowledged, this is a live police investigation, and it is not appropriate to release that information at this stage, not least because we would risk prejudicing any potential criminal proceedings that may arise. However, there may be something that we can do, and I will come to that in a moment. All police forces also have a duty to protect the identity of anyone who comes to their attention during an investigation but against whom no further action was either possible or appropriate. The rules of natural justice must still apply.

I understand, and support, the unwavering determination of Katrice’s parents to uncover the truth of what happened, and I can assure them that there will be no attempt to cover up any past failings. I am happy to repeat previous assurances given to the family that the Royal Military Police will be open about any failings that are identified and that, when the time is right, we will look again at the issue of disclosure. I also know that Brigadier Bill Warren, the Provost Marshal (Army) and the chief officer of the Royal Military Police, has indicated that, at an appropriate point in his team’s work, he will ask a civilian police force to review the entire investigation. The outcome of that review will be shared with Katrice’s parents as far as it is possible to do so. I hope that, at least in part, addresses one of the points that the hon. Member for Hartlepool has put to the House.

As everyone will know, we do not have a time machine and we cannot go back to the events of that day in 1981 when Katrice tragically disappeared. But what the Royal Military Police are doing is rigorously applying all available modern investigative techniques and seeking the advice of leading international colleagues. In other words, they are doing everything practically possible, given the time that has elapsed, to get to the bottom of what happened to Katrice.

I have only come to this case recently, having been in post for some two months, but I have looked at the details and I fully appreciate that this has been a long torment for the Lee family. I know that they have concerns about how the case was handled at the time, as both hon. Members have reflected in the debate. I would therefore be happy to meet the hon. Member for Hartlepool and his constituent in order to discuss the case in more detail. I am also happy to meet my hon. Friend the Member for Gosport and her constituent. We can either do this in one meeting or two, depending on the family’s preference.

I propose that before Christmas, or early in the new year at the latest, we meet at the headquarters of the Royal Military Police’s Special Investigation Branch in Bulford, where the Provost Marshal (Army) and his investigative team will be available to discuss the current investigation with the Lee family personally and to answer any questions they may have. If the hon. Members and the family are content, I will also be present at those meetings and discussions so that I can hear the questions and answers for myself. As the Minister directly responsible for this issue, I hope that I have been able to make an offer to both hon. Members this evening, the spirit of which I hope they will understand. Once they have discussed this issue with the family, if our three offices can co-ordinate promptly and we can all sort our diaries out, I hope that we can all meet in Bulford. I think that that would be the most useful place to meet, ideally in the run-up to Christmas, but if for whatever reason that is not possible, then as early as we can in January.

I will also be happy to meet again with the hon. Members and their constituents, either collectively or individually, once the investigation has concluded to discuss its conclusions at that time. I cannot give a guarantee this evening at the Dispatch Box for when the investigation will conclude. I completely and utterly understand why hon. Members and the family would like me to do that. I do get it, if I can put it like that, but the investigation must be allowed to run its proper course. If the family have frustrations about that, which I can understand, then I suggest that the best thing would be if they put those to the Provost Marshal (Army) directly when we meet. Perhaps he can update them fully at that time on where the investigation has got to and at least try to give them some idea of when matters might be brought to a conclusion. I hope the House can appreciate the spirit in which we are now attempting to address this matter.

This has been a tragic case. It has gone on for more than 30 years. The two hon. Members have done exactly the right thing in bringing it to the attention of the House. I hope they might feel that I, on behalf of the Department, have tried to do the right thing to take this as seriously as the matter obviously warrants. Perhaps we can all continue this discussion in Bulford and do our best to get to the bottom of what happened to Katrice. I hope that we can try to help the family with what must have been an almost unbearable burden for more than three decades.

Question put and agreed to.

Chief of Staff

Mark Francois Excerpts

Friday 2nd November 2012 Written Statements

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

In response to parliamentary questions from the hon. Member for North Durham (Mr Jones) on 17 September 2012, Official Report, column 456, I provided information on the costs of household staff supporting the chief of the defence staff, the vice-chief of the defence staff and the chiefs of the naval, general and air staffs.

I noted in that answer that it was not yet possible to give the hon. Member for North Durham the costs for the financial year 2011-12, as they were still being compiled. I am now in a position to provide those figures, and they are set out in the table below.

The 2009-10 and 2010-11 figures in the table have been reviewed and updated and are now consistent with the methodology used to calculate the 2011-12 figures, on a capitation rate basis.

Ofsted Report (Armed Forces Initial Training)

Mark Francois Excerpts

Friday 26th October 2012 Written Statements

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

Today Ofsted publishes its fourth report on welfare and duty of care in armed forces initial training, copies of which I have placed in the Library of the House. Following visits to 10 armed forces initial training establishments and five armed forces careers offices, Ofsted reports that recruits and trainees feel safe and that their welfare needs are largely being met.

Of the 10 service training establishments inspected, six were judged as good for the overall effectiveness of their welfare and care arrangements; two were judged as outstanding and two as satisfactory.

The armed forces are keen to ensure that the initial training environment is supportive of the needs of those new to the service and the particular focus of the Ofsted inspection provides additional detail on which to reflect and review the effectiveness of their training regimes.

Oral Answers to Questions

Mark Francois Excerpts

Monday 22nd October 2012 Commons Chamber

[Julie Hilling (Bolton West) (Lab)]

4. What recent discussions he has had with the Secretary of State for Work and Pensions on steps to ensure that seriously wounded war veterans will receive a minimum of £130 per week towards the cost of care and living.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

The Defence Secretary has regular discussions with his Cabinet colleagues regarding the support provided to those who have been seriously wounded while serving in the armed forces. The matter has also been discussed by the Cabinet Sub-Committee on the Armed Forces Covenant. Work on minimum payments is at an early stage, but Ministry of Defence officials continue to work closely with the Department for Work and Pensions to develop the support that we provide to service personnel and veterans.

[Julie Hilling]

There seems to be a little hope in the Minister’s answer. Will he say what is being done now about veterans who have already lost their disability living allowance? My constituent Aaron Moon lost his leg in Afghanistan and had more than six months without disability living allowance. Surely that is not the right way to treat our wounded heroes.

[Mr Francois]

I hope that we can offer the hon. Lady some good news. When the personal independence payment comes in, anyone will be able to apply for it. However, seriously injured service personnel and ex-service personnel will instead be able to apply for a separate payment, which will guarantee that they will not be worse off than under disability living allowance. Under that payment, they will not be subject to periodic reassessment, as PIP recipients will be. The separate payment, which is known as the armed forces independence payment, or AFIP, will be available to those in receipt of an award from the armed forces compensation scheme at tariff levels 1 to 8, or with an entitlement to a guaranteed income payment of 50% or higher.

[Nick de Bois (Enfield North) (Con)]

11. Does the Minister share my concern that multiple amputee UK soldiers are not receiving the Genium X2 product, which is generally accredited as the best available in the prosthetics field and is used by the US? Will he agree to meet triple amputee Rifleman Jack Otter, who is my constituent, to understand the difficulties and worries that such people have?

[Mr Francois]

I understand that my hon. Friend’s Question was further down the Order Paper, but has been grouped with another Question. However, using the principles of military flexibility, I will attempt to be fleet of foot.

I am familiar with the issue that my hon. Friend raises. The Ministry of Defence has made considerable investments at Headley Court to provide a world-class service for those with prosthetics. I was present when His Royal Highness the Prince of Wales opened the new £17 million Jubilee rehabilitation wing, which was paid for by the Ministry of Defence. The Secretary of State has recently announced a further £5 million of investment. I am familiar with the case of my hon. Friend’s constituent and will agree to meet him. However, I must enter the caveat that I am not qualified as a doctor and that I will have to take clinical advice on what decision it would be best to take following the meeting.

[Mr Speaker]

I have known the right hon. Gentleman for 27 years and he is often right, but on this occasion he is half right. The hon. Member for Enfield North (Nick de Bois) does have a Question lower down the Order Paper. That played a part in my choosing to call him now. It is Question 11, as the right hon. Gentleman will correctly discern, but it has not been grouped with any other Question.

[Gemma Doyle (West Dunbartonshire) (Lab/Co-op)]

I welcome the Minister to his post. Having travelled with him and his colleague, the Under-Secretary of State for Defence, the hon. hon. Member for Ludlow (Mr Dunne), all the way to Stanley last year, I can say that an 18-hour journey is useful in fostering cross-party co-operation.

I welcome the Minister’s comments today because, despite the Prime Minister’s assurances on the personal independence payment, in a letter to me dated 30 September the then Under-Secretary of State for Work and Pensions, the right hon. Member for Basingstoke (Maria Miller), who had responsibility for disabled people, wrote:

“we are working with the MOD to establish if it would be possible to avoid severely injured veterans undergoing multiple reassessments”.

At that stage, the Prime Minister’s message clearly had not filtered through to Ministers at the Department for Work and Pensions. Will the Minister clarify how far back the policy that he has announced today will apply?

[Mr Francois]

It was an enjoyable trip, but what goes on tour stays on tour.

As I have already tried to explain, there will be a special payment called the AFIP, which we hope will be able to address the bulk of these issues. The hon. Lady will know from her interest in the field that the second principle of the armed forces covenant is special treatment where appropriate, especially for the injured or bereaved. We hope that the AFIP will play into that and be an example of the second principle of the covenant in action.

[David Mowat (Warrington South) (Con)]

5. Whether his Department has undertaken any preparations for the removal of the nuclear fleet from HMNB Clyde in the event of Scottish independence.

--- Later in debate ---

[Martin Horwood (Cheltenham) (LD)]

15. What support his Department is providing for veterans seeking employment; and if he will make a statement.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

With permission, I shall answer these questions together as I understand that they have actually been grouped.

The MOD regularly meets the Department for Education, the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills, the Department for Work and Pensions and others regarding initiatives to assist service leavers in making a successful transition to civilian life. Prior to leaving, all service personnel are entitled to some form of resettlement assistance, consisting of time, money and training, according to length of service. Those who serve six years or more, and all those medically discharged, regardless of how long served, are entitled to the full resettlement programme, which includes a three-day career transition workshop, the use of a career consultant, a job-finding service, retraining time and a retraining grant.

[Jack Dromey]

To leave the armed forces is to lose a way of life. Does the Minister not accept that we have a triple obligation to our heroes—never to short-change them by making them redundant within days of their enjoying a full pension; always to ensure that they get the support necessary to re-enter civilian life; and, crucially, to honour their past service to this country? Will he therefore take this opportunity to apologise to the House and the Royal Fusiliers for the actions of one of his fellow Ministers last week, who wrongly sought to exclude those brave men from the Public Gallery?

[Mr Francois]

I do not believe that my right hon. Friend attempted to do that. The hon. Gentleman’s first point was addressed directly in an earlier answer by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State. I agree that we should endeavour to do the best for our service men and women when they leave the service—it is part of the armed forces covenant—and on that I can offer the hon. Gentleman some specific good news and one direct example: BT is set to bolster its current work force by recruiting 250 further engineers from service personnel already committed to leaving the armed forces. That will make a total of 1,000 people whom BT has taken on under that heading, and we welcome that.

[Martin Horwood]

Given the worrying statistics on the problems faced by ex-service people in gaining employment, would Ministers be interested to hear that 1 Rifles is working with Omega Resource Group from my constituency in developing veteran-specific employment programmes? Is that something they would like to hear more about, and should it be considered in Lord Ashcroft’s review?

[Mr Francois]

I would indeed be interested to hear more about that, as I am sure will be Lord Ashcroft. I know for a fact that, for instance, the Rifles have been working on projects to help seriously wounded ex-servicemen to engage in archaeology. A number have gone on to study archaeology or have applied to study it in further or higher education as a result of that initiative. The Rifles have an active programme in this regard, and we commend them for it.

[Rehman Chishti (Gillingham and Rainham) (Con)]

13. What steps the Government are taking to extend support in education for the children of current and former service personnel.

[Mr Marcus Jones (Nuneaton) (Con)]

14. What steps the Government are taking to extend support in education for the children of current and former service personnel.

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

The Ministry of Defence and other Departments have made important changes in service children’s education. We have introduced the service pupil premium, and we have extended it to children of military personnel who have died in service and to eligible service children whose parents have left the armed forces. In addition, the MOD introduced the support fund for state schools with service children. The new schools admissions code now enables infant schools in England to treat the children of UK service personnel as a permitted exception to class size regulations. That means that infant schools may admit service children and increase the class size to more than 30 if they feel they have the resources to do so.

[Rehman Chishti]

Will the Minister join me in welcoming the community covenant recently agreed in my constituency in Medway, which has been supported by well over 50 local companies?

[Mr Francois]

I most certainly will. As the Secretary of State has already said, more than 150 local authorities have signed the community covenant, and we are now on track to get to 200. They are coming in fast, which gives us the nice problem of tracking them as they come in. If I can give my hon. Friend another example of how the scheme works in practice, Oxfordshire county council has amended its admissions procedures so that service personnel who apply to move their children into an Oxfordshire school before they move to Oxfordshire can use a British Forces Post Office number on the application form. That might sound like a small thing, but prior to the change service personnel could not apply for a school place until they had moved into an area. Allowing service personnel to apply in advance of their children moving to an area materially affects their family’s quality of life. I commend Oxfordshire county council for its initiative and I hope others will copy it.

[Mr Marcus Jones]

I welcome the recent announcements made by the Minister, which clearly demonstrate that this Government are doing their bit to honour the military covenant. Can my right hon. Friend say what steps are being taken to help those children who have been bereaved to go on to higher education?

[Mr Francois]

Yes, I can. The coalition programme for government included an undertaking to provide

“university and further education scholarships for…children of Service”

personnel

“who have been killed on active duty since 1990”.

The aim is to provide a head start in life, enabling bereaved service children to obtain higher education qualifications. The education scholarship scheme was launched on 8 April 2011 and, where the criteria are met, provides further education and university scholarships for the children of servicemen and women who died while serving in Her Majesty’s armed forces.

[Mrs Madeleine Moon (Bridgend) (Lab)]

T1. If he will make a statement on his departmental responsibilities.

--- Later in debate ---

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

Yes, we do indeed welcome the support of businesses for the defence discount scheme, which will offer servicemen, veterans and servicemen’s families a number of discounts in a range of high street businesses across the country. People may already register for the scheme now, but we hope within the next few months to progress the scheme by giving them a card bearing their name, which will make it easier to prove their membership when they enter one of the participating companies. We believe this will be valuable to the people concerned, and we commend those businesses that are participating in the scheme.

[Dan Jarvis (Barnsley Central) (Lab)]

The 2012 armed forces continuous attitudes survey provides some very concerning information, particularly in respect of the Army. Only 52% of soldiers are satisfied with service life; the trend of declining morale has continued, with only 18% reporting high morale across the Army; and only 33% of soldiers questioned felt valued. Does the Secretary of State share my concern at these figures, and, if he does, what is he going to do about them?

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Bob Russell (Colchester) (LD)]

I am grateful to the Prime Minister for coming into the Chamber to hear my question.

The Secretary of State will now be aware that the Defence Committee has written about the future of Garrison Radio, in the context of local radio not just at Colchester but at Catterick. Will a statement be made today about preventing the British Forces Broadcasting Service from snuffing out local Garrison Radio services?

[Mr Francois]

On behalf of the Prime Minister, I thank the hon. Gentleman for his kind comments.

I am aware of the issue involving the BFBS and Garrison Radio. I understand that Garrison Radio tendered for the work initially, but that unfortunately its tender was not entirely successful. I believe that the Future Forces Broadcasting Service will be able to provide a perfectly adequate service, but if the hon. Gentleman—who I know represents a valuable garrison—is still dissatisfied, I shall be willing to meet him personally to discuss the matter.

Armed Forces Pensions

Mark Francois Excerpts

Tuesday 16th October 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Salisbury (John Glen) on securing this important debate. I acknowledge his genuine concern for the individual cases he has mentioned—several members of his own constituency and one other represented by my hon. Friend the Member for South Norfolk (Mr Bacon). I am aware of the particular circumstances of the individual case on which my hon. Friend the Member for Salisbury has focused, and I would like to explain the error in pensions policy interpretation that has led to this situation and what has been done to support individuals who might have encountered financial and other difficulties as a result.

For the benefit of the House, I will set out a little of the background, but may I start by saying that when a service person divorces or dissolves a civil partnership, we acknowledge that it can be a difficult and stressful time for both parties? I fully recognise, especially in the current climate, that to have received the news that the amount of pension that was already in payment would reduce, or in the case of deferred pensions would be less than expected, would have been a great cause for concern. If any additional upset or distress has been caused as a result of errors made by the Department, I offer my own very sincere apology to those affected.

By way of introduction to this subject, pension credit members are former spouses or civil partners of members of our armed forces pension schemes who have been awarded a pension sharing order on divorce or on the dissolution of a civil partnership. They are a special category member of the pension scheme to which their former spouse or partner belongs. So while they are members in their own right, the terms of their membership do not directly mirror the pension entitlement of their former spouse or partner.

As I think my hon. Friend the Member for Salisbury well understands, the legislation in this area is complex. Occupational pensions would normally become payable from age 65. New legislation was introduced in 2009 that allowed pensions to be brought into payment from the age of 55. The Ministry of Defence’s pensions policy staff wrongly interpreted this legislation as allowing payment from the age of 55 without any reduction for early payment. However, my Department’s reading of the law was mistaken.

The legislation was intended to make early payment an option, but if the pension was to be paid early, a corresponding reduction was also required. The error was first identified in the latter part of 2010 during an exercise to review the regulations for the armed forces pension scheme. As soon as it was identified, work began to amend the regulations of all of the pension schemes affected. My Department’s pensions policy staff instructed the Service Personnel and Veterans Agency to apply the correct policy to new cases from March 2011.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

I am grateful to the hon. Member for Salisbury (John Glen) for bringing this matter to our attention. He said in his introduction that life circumstances have been substantially affected, so I ask the Minister whether, in the review, he would be prepared to look at those who have been awarded compensation, as it has affected their benefits? Will he consider them as well as the wives and family members as part of the review that the Minister hopes to undertake?

[Mr Francois]

I hope that, by the time I get to the end of my speech, the hon. Gentleman will agree that we are doing our best to look at this issue and try to put it right. He will be able to make that judgment afterwards, but I hope that what I say will address the spirit of what he has asked.

The effect of misinterpreting the legislation was that 127 pensions already in payment to pension credit members required an adjustment to be made—in the majority of cases, this would result in a reduction. In March 2012, the Department notified all those members affected and advised that the changes would come into effect from June this year. The average annual reduction to pensions in payment was approximately £783, although in some cases this will have been significantly higher.

During business questions in April 2012, my hon. Friend the Member for Salisbury asked the Leader of the House to seek an apology from the Ministry of Defence and to take corrective action that would, in effect, restore the pensions to the original amount. The Leader of the House asked for urgent inquiries to be made to establish whether any injustice had occurred. My predecessor, the Minister for the Armed Forces, my right hon. Friend the Member for South Leicestershire (Mr Robathan) wrote to my hon. Friend on 10 May, confirming that while an error had occurred in allowing the pensions to be paid on the wrong basis, legally there was no provision to continue paying the pensions knowingly at the incorrect rate.

My predecessor also confirmed that when the pensions were being adjusted to the correct rate, a calculation error was made by the Department. That further mistake was identified quickly, and revised calculations were issued to those affected as soon as was practicable. When the correct methodology was applied, the reductions in pension amounts in all those cases proved to be less than had previously been indicated. In a few cases pensions actually increased, as did the lump sums received by some pension credit members as part of divorce settlements.

As I am sure the House will agree, when there is no legal entitlement for a pension to continue to be paid at an incorrect rate, the payment must be put right without undue delay. Regrettably, in this instance the matter was not addressed as quickly as it ought to have been, and the payments were allowed to continue. Again, I apologise for that.

In the spring of 2012, when the extent of both errors had been recognised, the Ministry of Defence did its best to put things right. As a first step, approval having been sought from Her Majesty’s Treasury, overpayments to 127 pension credit members totalling more than £176,000 were waived, and no recovery action was pursued. In addition, in recognition of the need for those affected to adjust to a reduced income in future, a period of three months’ grace was given to those whose pensions were already being paid.

For the sake of completeness, the House should know that the same errors also affected 417 deferred pension credit members. Deferred members are those whose pensions have not yet been paid. Those members were also written to in March 2012, and were told that the amount of pension they were expecting to receive at the age of 55 was incorrect. They could still choose to take their pensions early at 55 or they could wait until they were 65, but the amount would need to be recalculated. Once deferred members' pensions had also been calculated on the correct basis, the vast majority of deferred members saw their annual pensions actually increase above the original estimated value.

All those affected were offered an opportunity to discuss their situation with the Service Personnel and Veterans Agency’s welfare service. In March 2012, when the original pension recalculations were completed and the reductions in pension were known, the agency identified those with the most significant reductions and those who might be particularly vulnerable, and arranged for a welfare manager to visit them personally. The visits were completed, whenever possible, throughout March, and ensured that that group of individuals could be in direct contact with a welfare manager should they require further or ongoing support. In each case involving welfare contact, a full case assessment was carried out. It examined individual circumstances, and included potential entitlement to other benefits. Further support and advice have been given to a number of pension credit members, and, when appropriate, they have been helped to apply for further DWP benefits such as disability living allowance and carer’s allowance.

The potential financial difficulties that the adjustment might have caused some individuals was also recognised. Claims for hardship that could be substantiated could be discussed in confidence with the welfare service and submitted for consideration. Five claims for financial hardship, six claims for a consolatory payment and two claims for other financial losses have been received and considered, and compensation has been paid when appropriate. That route remains open to pension credit members, including my hon. Friend’s constituents, who may be facing genuine financial hardship as a result of the changes in their annual pensions. I appreciate that making any such claim is a difficult step to take, but I assure my hon. Friend that it would be handled in a sensitive manner and in conjunction with members of our welfare service. They are there to offer support, and I urge all affected individuals to make contact to see what can be done.

I was pleased that my hon. Friend recognised the efforts that my Department has made in supplying information to his constituent. I assure the House that it has learnt some valuable lessons from its mistakes in this case. Improved processes have been introduced to enhance the training of, and more effective working between, pensions policy and operational delivery staffs. That has included a strong focus on ensuring that the potential implications of future legislative changes are correctly interpreted and fully understood.

I have listened to all that my hon. Friend has said today. While it is perfectly true that an error was made in the interpretation of legislation in this complex area, and that that was further exacerbated by errors in our calculations—for which I have already apologised—I urge the House to recognise that my Department has acted to minimise the effects that the error has caused. We have not sought to recover the overpayments, we have given three months’ grace enabling members to adjust to the reduced amount of pension, we have offered welfare support when it has been required or considered appropriate, and we have made arrangements for claims to be considered when financial hardship has been demonstrated. My hon. Friend has made considerable efforts to support this group of individuals through all possible parliamentary channels. That is evidence of his commitment to champion their cause to seek to ensure that no injustice has taken place.

My hon. Friend has suggested that some form of compensation is due to those affected by these errors. I agree. Although there is no statutory entitlement to maintain these pensions at the full amount, I can assure the House that the MOD has in place a comprehensive process to compensate these individuals where financial hardship has resulted because of the changes to their pension. The process will consider individual cases and assess the impact the errors have had. If individuals are not satisfied with the outcome, it is of course open to them to pursue the matter of any compensation through the legal system.

In conclusion, I urge those individuals who have been affected to engage or re-engage with our welfare system so that we can consider each individual case in the round and do our best to put things right. We must make amends and we will seek to do so.

Question put and agreed to.

HMS Caroline

Mark Francois Excerpts

Monday 15th October 2012 Written Statements

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

I am pleased to inform the House that I am today laying a departmental minute, which proposes the transfer of HMS Caroline and its fixtures and fittings to the National Museum of the Royal Navy (NMRN).

HMS Caroline is considered to be the second most important ship in the UK National Maritime collection after HMS Victory; she is the only surviving veteran afloat of the Battle of Jutland (1916). The ship is a significant example of early 20th century engineering and shipbuilding, constructed of riveted steel plate with three-inch belt armour reducing to one inch at the keel. Laid down on 28 January 1914 at Camel Lairds yard in Birkenhead, she was commissioned into active service on 17 December of that year making her the fastest built major warship to date. She was propelled by two Parson’s steam turbine engines which remain onboard as the world’s only “in situ” example of the engines which revolutionized maritime propulsion. HMS Caroline has been moored in Belfast since January 1924, just over two years after the state of Northern Ireland was established and she has built a considerable social history as a witness to the province’s story. As a depot ship and Royal Naval reserve training ship she has benefited from continual occupation and some 85% of the vessel is in its original form.

The ship, currently berthed in Belfast, is in an increasingly fragile state and was decommissioned on 31 March 2011.

The contents of the ship known as the “Caroline Collection” were the subject of a separate gift (valued at less than £250,000) made in July 2011. The National Museum has already assumed responsibility for ongoing running costs of the ship. Following the gift, the NMRN intend to apply for Heritage Lottery funding in order to restore the ship as a heritage attraction in Belfast.

The proposed transfer would enable the NMRN to access external funding sources in order to restore and preserve this historically significant ship as a heritage attraction in its current location in Belfast following an agreement between the Department of Enterprise, Trade and Investment in Northern Ireland and the National Museum of the Royal Navy.

The detailed arrangements proposed envisage that the NMRN would assume responsibility for the restoration and preservation of the ship. I expect the new arrangements to be in place by 1 April 2013.

Unsolicited Mail Campaign

Mark Francois Excerpts

Friday 14th September 2012 Written Statements

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

I wish to inform the House about the annual unsolicited mail campaign the Ministry of Defence (MOD) will be running in the lead up to Christmas (which is 100 days from this Sunday).

This Government are dedicated to the care and welfare of the men and women of our armed forces, particularly those deployed on operations, which is reflected in the comprehensive deployed welfare package. A key part of that package is ensuring the timely delivery of free personal mail from family and friends. While unsolicited mail is well-intentioned, mail sent by families and friends is the most important to deployed personnel and is our absolute priority. Moreover, unsolicited mail sometimes strains the logistic supply chain and can prevent other mail from families from getting through. The British Forces’ Post Office (BFPO) estimates it will handle approximately 22,500 parcels per week during the eight-week period between mid-October and mid-December, more than twice the normal demand. This can impact on personal mail, causing severe delays. Also delivering packages over the “final mile” to forward bases puts increased pressure on essential in-theatre resources.

It is for these reasons that the MOD will be repeating its unsolicited mail campaign. Its success last year reduced the volume of unsolicited mail by half compared to previous years. Key to the success of this campaign is encouraging the British public to show their support through one of the recognised MOD service charities. All service personnel on operations over Christmas will receive a seasonal gift box from the charity, “uk4u Thanks!”. This charity works closely with the MOD, using free space in the existing supply chain to deliver the boxes well before Christmas, without impacting on the normal mail system.

I recognise that it might seem counter-intuitive to ask the British public not to send parcels to troops at Christmas, but to avoid the impact of unsolicited mail and to help prioritise mail to service personnel from their families I ask for your full support in directing the public towards MOD recognised charities.

Wayne Moore

Mark Francois Excerpts

Tuesday 11th September 2012 Commons Chamber

[The Minister of State, Ministry of Defence (Mr Mark Francois)]

If the House will allow me a brief indulgence, after two and a half years in the Whips Office and the vow of Omerta that goes with it, it is a pleasure to be able to speak in the House of Commons again. Now that I have that ability, may I congratulate the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North (Diana Johnson) on securing this debate on the case of her constituent, Mr Wayne Moore, who was allegedly assaulted on 25 May 2008 in Germany? I note that the hon. Member for Cheltenham (Martin Horwood) is also in the Chamber and I am well aware of his long interest in this case as Mr Moore’s constituency MP, before Mr Moore moved to Hull.

I was sorry to learn the details of this incident, as I am for Mr Moore, who has clearly suffered following the events of 25 May 2008. That was made plain by the Member of Parliament who now represents him. I hope that this debate will help answer any outstanding concerns Mr Moore may have. I am sure, though, that the House will also understand that I will be unable to cover some detail relating to the case publicly, not least for reasons of data protection and legal privilege. However, I can confirm that this incident was initially investigated by the Royal Military Police. It may help at this juncture if I explain that the RMP undertook the investigation under the agreement with the German authorities covering the basing of our forces in the country as part of the NATO alliance, which is known as the status of forces agreement. This is because the accused was a British serviceman and the incident took place on a British military base. The service police work very closely with their civilian colleagues, both in the UK and when our forces are deployed overseas.

The initial investigation commenced on 26 May 2008. It concluded in November that year, and the matter was passed to the chain of command of the accused for their consideration. In December, following legal advice, the commanding officer made a decision using his statutory authority under the Army Act 1955—the legislation that was in force at that time—not to prosecute any individual in relation to the incident. The case was therefore discontinued at that stage. Following representations from Mr Moore, a lieutenant colonel from the Royal Military Police conducted an internal review in July 2009, which the hon. Member for Kingston upon Hull North mentioned. He conducted a thorough review of the case and the relevant evidence, and identified a number of missed investigative opportunities. CCTV footage was reviewed and found to have no evidence of the incident in question, but was not recovered; some potential witnesses to the incident were not identified; and there were avoidable delays that, in one case, may have led to a witness declining to provide identification evidence. Nevertheless, he concluded that those shortfalls would not have materially altered the outcome, not least because other evidence, including witness evidence, contradicted Mr Moore’s version of the incident.

The Royal Military Police’s chief officer, the Provost Marshal (Army), wrote to Mr Moore to offer his personal apologies for these failures in the investigative process and to suggest a meeting with his staff to explain their findings in more detail. Mr Moore took them up on this offer and later that year the Royal Military Police met the hon. Lady’s constituent and explained their findings to him directly.

Following that review, Mr Moore continued to express reservations about the way in which the matter had been investigated and again asked that the matter be reopened. Accordingly, in March 2010, the Royal Military Police asked a retired civilian detective chief superintendent with many years’ experience in this area to undertake a further independent review of the case to provide additional external assurance of the investigation. This further review concurred with the Royal Military Police’s own assessment that although some investigative opportunities were missed in the case, as the hon. Lady said, they would not have altered the outcome of the investigation. It was, however, suggested by the detective chief superintendent, that obtaining further evidence from medical sources who treated Mr Moore in Germany at the time and subsequently in the UK might provide grounds to allow investigators to refer the case to the Service Prosecuting Authority under the new legislative framework of the Armed Forces Act 2006, which had recently come into force in October 2009.

As such, the chief officer of the Royal Military Police set about obtaining further medical evidence in support of Mr Moore’s case. Unfortunately, and despite the efforts of police investigators, it took until March 2011 for all the additional information to be provided. I should point out here that these medical sources were not military and there was considerable delay on the part of the civilian medical authorities in providing the necessary information. The issue of patient/doctor confidentiality and data protection, and the difficulty this poses to police forces wishing to pursue fully all lines of inquiry, is an issue that we recognise, and one that faces many police organisations, not only, in fairness, those in the military.

As a result of that further work, the case was referred to the Director of Service Prosecutions. Having received the file, prosecutors requested further clarification, which required a short period of further work. Once that was complete, they properly applied the “full code” test, which requires the prosecuting authority to judge whether there is a realistic prospect of conviction—is it more likely than not?—and, if so, whether prosecution is in the public, including the service, interest. In this case they considered that there was not a realistic prospect of conviction and, therefore, no charges were brought.

Because of the role it plays within the service justice system, the Service Prosecuting Authority is rightly independent of both the chain of command and the Ministry of Defence and falls under the superintendence of my right hon. and learned Friend the Attorney-General. That is analogous to the Crown Prosecution Service being independent of the civilian police. I hope that the hon. Lady will therefore understand that it would be inappropriate for me to comment further on its decision.

What I can say is that the Director of Service Prosecutions has reviewed the case personally and not only provided an assurance that the correct assessment processes were followed but endorsed the decision that there was no realistic prospect of conviction. Accordingly, the managing prosecutor wrote to Mr Moore to advise him formally of the outcome, explaining the reasons for the conclusion he reached and provided Mr Moore with the opportunity to request a meeting to discuss the reasons in more detail, which I understand he has not, to date, pursued. The Solicitor-General subsequently reviewed the case papers and did not dissent from the decision.

No one can deny that, following the independent case review in early 2010, this case was more protracted than anyone would have wished. In that sense, the hon. Lady has a perfectly fair point. We also recognise that there were failures properly to support and inform Mr Moore of the status of the initial investigation and subsequently through the review process. I hope that the hon. Lady is assured, as I was, by the willingness of the service police to consider her constituent’s concerns and review the case not once, but twice, including by an independent assessor. As I know she will appreciate, the vast majority of police investigations within the service justice system are managed quickly, efficiently and effectively. Nevertheless, in the small percentage of cases in which investigative mistakes have been made, it is vital that the police are open and honest enough to hold their hands up and apologise, and I believe that this case highlights their willingness to do so.

[Diana Johnson]

I think that the Minister is coming to the end of his contribution and wonder whether he might be willing to comment on the allegation that has now been made against Mr Moore four years on—that he perpetrated the attack—which was not raised before and has caused him a great deal of distress.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Francois]

I understand the hon. Lady’s point and think that I will have time to refer to it in my conclusion.

I would not want to leave the House with the impression that the delay that occurred in this case, for which the RMP has apologised, is the norm within the service justice system: it is not. Members will be aware that the three services each have their own police forces—the Royal Navy Police, the Royal Military Police and the Royal Air Force Police—which have statutory powers devolved through the Armed Forces Act. They are deployed wherever the armed forces are based and, because the armed forces reflect society, are expected to deliver the full spectrum of law enforcement capability and investigate all types of crime. They are therefore trained to standards set by the National Policing Improvement Agency and, where necessary, advanced technical training is provided by the civil police.

Last year more than 2,500 cases were investigated by the Royal Military Police alone and over 600 cases were prosecuted by the Service Prosecuting Authority at courts martial. The average time to trial in 2011 was 111 days, which compares favourably with, for example, magistrates courts, which have average completion rates of 144 days for all defendants, although I accept that it is difficult to make direct comparisons because of the unique nature of some service offences.

I would like to take this opportunity to pay tribute to the work of the service police. For the most part, they do an outstanding job in difficult and sometimes exceptionally dangerous circumstances. Of course they sometimes get criticised—every police force in the country has been criticised at one time or another—but it would be wrong to draw broad conclusions from individual cases. Some cases result in convictions, some in acquittals, and some, for various reasons, do not proceed to trial. That is the nature of any criminal justice system, whether service or civilian. The key thing is for organisations to acknowledge when mistakes are made and to learn from them. I can assure the hon. Lady that that is what has happened in this case. Lessons have been learned. Royal Military Police investigative policy and practice is continually developed and adapted in the light of experience and emerging civil police best practice. Furthermore, since Mr Moore raised his concerns, a code of practice has been introduced by the Ministry of Defence detailing the services to be provided by the armed forces to the victims of crime. This is designed to ensure that victims are properly supported and that at every stage of the investigation and prosecutorial process they are kept fully informed of progress in their case.

Ultimately, we accept that there could have been improvements in the way the case was initially investigated. I am conscious, however, that it has now been reviewed and considered by the Royal Military Police, by a senior retired civilian detective, by the Service Prosecuting Authority, and by the Solicitor-General, so it has been looked at in great detail four times already. I have also discussed the case personally with the Provost Marshal (Army) as well as consulting staff from the independent Service Prosecuting Authority. I have been assured that the case has now been exhaustively investigated and that the correct decision not to prosecute was reached. Part of the reason that decision has been made is that, as I said, the witness statements that have been made available clearly contradict the version of events that has been provided by Mr Moore.

I know that the hon. Lady’s constituent continues to suffer as a result of the events of May 2008. Nevertheless, his suffering is not in itself proof that a crime was committed, and after repeated, careful and independent consideration of the events in question the conclusion has always remained the same—that there is no realistic prospect of convicting any individual in relation to this matter. I hope that in saying that I have been able to answer fairly clearly the point that she put to me in her intervention, but if she feels that I have not, I will gladly give way again.

[Diana Johnson]

I am grateful to the Minister for allowing me to intervene again. If he is now saying, four years on, that the witness statements contradicted the original account of what had happened, why was an investigation not taken forward against Mr Moore? It seems very convenient that four years on the tables have been turned on him and that this was not raised much earlier if there was evidence.

[Mr Francois]

I understand the hon. Lady’s question. I do not think that there was evidence sufficient to prosecute Mr Moore for what happened in this case, just as I do not think there was evidence sufficient to prosecute the accused, as it were. Given that the case has been reviewed four times, and having looked into this, I am confident that the previous decisions were correct. However, I absolutely respect the hon. Lady’s doggedness in wanting to get to the bottom of what happened on behalf of the member of the public she represents. I hope that she will feel that I have tried to answer her question directly.

The Service Prosecuting Authority’s offer to meet Mr Moore further to explain its decision not to prosecute remains open. Under the circumstances, particularly as explained to the House by the hon. Lady and the hon. Member for Cheltenham, I strongly encourage Mr Moore—the hon. Lady might want to play some part in this—to take the Service Prosecuting Authority up on this offer in the hope that he could then put these questions to it directly and that that might enable it to answer those questions and perhaps to help him to come to terms with what has happened. I can only make that suggestion from this Dispatch Box, but I hope that the hon. Lady’s constituent will take it up because, given the long and complicated history of this case, it would be helpful if he sat down with and put these questions directly to the SPA so that it could reply directly to him. I can drop a hint in that regard, but I cannot force the hon. Lady’s constituent to take it.

In conclusion, I hope that I have done my best to address directly the points that have been put to me. I commend the hon. Lady and her friend on the Liberal Democrat Benches, who is also my hon. Friend the Member for Cheltenham, for the way in which they have approached this case. I hope that I have done my best to put their concerns to rest.

Question put and agreed to.