British Overseas Troops: Civil Liability Claims

Johnny Mercer Excerpts

Thursday 16th July 2020 Commons Chamber

[John Healey (Wentworth and Dearne) (Lab)]

(Urgent Question): To ask the Secretary of State for Defence to update the House on the overseas operations Bill’s impact on the rights of British troops serving overseas to bring civil liability claims against the Ministry of Defence and its implications for the Armed Forces Covenant.

[The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Johnny Mercer)]

We have introduced the Overseas Operations (Service Personnel and Veterans) Bill to lance the boil of lawfare and to protect our people from the relentless cycle of reinvestigations against our armed forces. Let me be absolutely clear: none of the measures will prevent the Ministry of Defence from being held to account for any wrongdoing.

To allay any further misunderstanding, let me provide some context. The Bill takes account of the uniquely challenging circumstances of overseas operations. It reassures our personnel that they will not be called on endlessly to defend against historic claims. It does that by introducing what we are calling a longstop. This restricts to an absolute maximum of six years the time limit for bringing civil claims or Human Rights Act claims for personal injury or death in connection with overseas operations.

It is simply wrong to assert that the Bill prevents service personnel, veterans or their relatives from bringing claims, because it does not change how the time limit is calculated. That will continue to be determined from either the date of the incident or date of knowledge. Conditions like post-traumatic stress disorder may not be diagnosed until much later, so the six years would start from the date of diagnosis.

The spirit of the armed forces covenant runs right through the legislation. Fairness is at its heart. We want to ensure that all claims are assessed fairly to achieve a fair outcome, yes, for veterans, but also for victims, service personnel and the taxpayer.

Yes, service personnel and veterans will still be able to bring claims against the MOD for such conditions, even if they are more than six years from the date of the incident. But also yes, this Government are going to war against lawfare. The days of veterans living in a persistent state of worry simply for having served this nation are coming to an end. Under this Prime Minister and under this Government, we will restore fairness to the process.

[John Healey]

This urgent question, with the summer recess next week, is the only way of getting Ministers to set the record straight and reassure veterans who have won claims against the MOD after knowing about their PTSD or their hearing loss for years, who rightly feel and fear this Bill will block their comrades from such compensation in future. We also want to protect serving and former troops against the Minister’s relentless cycle of vexatious legal claims or repeat investigations. I say to him that the Government have got important parts of this Bill badly wrong.

I asked the Minister on 6 July why he is legislating to reduce the rights of our armed forces personnel who serve overseas to bring civil claims against the Ministry of Defence if they miss this hard six-year deadline or his longstop. He told the House:

“The Bill does not do that.”—[Official Report, 6 July 2020; Vol. 678, c. 646.]

But of course it does, in clause 11. One week later, his written answer to me confirmed that 70 of 522 such settled claims have been

“brought more than six years after the…incident.”

So he has got the chance to correct the record today.

Why is the Minister legislating to deny those who put their lives on the line for our country overseas the same employer liability rights as the UK civilians they defend? Why are the Government breaching their own armed forces covenant by disadvantaging these troops, and why was the most senior military lawyer, the Judge Advocate General, not consulted on the drafting of the Bill? Is this the reason that Judge Blackett rightly says the Bill is “ill-conceived” and likely to increase prosecutions of UK service personnel in the International Criminal Court?

It is not too late to think again about the best way to protect service personnel from vexatious litigation while ensuring also that those who commit serious crimes during operations are prosecuted and punished appropriately. We are ready to assist, but Ministers have got to get a grip and they have got to get down to some serious work over the summer.

[Johnny Mercer]

I am grateful to the right hon. Member for his interest in the Bill. I would ask him to consider for a moment, given the history I have in this place, if I would attempt in any way to restrict the rights of service personnel to sue the Ministry of Defence or to claim for compensation after the event. I have read the Bill because I wrote the Bill, and the Bill very clearly states that it is from the point of knowledge or the point of diagnosis that that limitation comes in. We have always had limitations in this country. In the Limitation Act 1980, for example, there are limitations on various claims that are made through the tort system through the courts.

The reality is that introducing this legislation is not going to please everyone, because throughout the legal system that has thoroughly abused this process for many years, an awful lot of money has been made and the lives of our service personnel and veterans have been at the bottom of the priority list. Well, I am afraid that is changing, so I have no qualms at all that some people will disagree with elements of the Bill. But one thing that is beyond debate is that this is enhancing the quality of life and this nation’s responsibility to its service people and veterans; it is not going in the other direction. If there is any genuine concern out there from any individual who can show me that this will inhibit their rights, I am more than happy to look at it. But the issue around limitation is, I am afraid, misunderstood, because it is not from the point of when the injury happened or the incident that caused the injury; it is from the point of awareness or the point of diagnosis. The Bill does not change that. As far as I am concerned, it enhances the armed forces covenant. This will be a good thing, and a tool in our efforts to lance the boil of lawfare in this country.

[Marco Longhi (Dudley North) (Con)]

As someone who chaired the armed forces covenant in the Black Country for a year, I am proud to be part of a Government who are taking veterans in Dudley and across the country seriously, listening to them and giving them the support they need. Will my hon. Friend reassure me that these changes will ensure that our troops and veterans are protected from unfair and persistent pursuit?

[Johnny Mercer]

The objective of this Bill is very clear. It is to restore fairness in the system for veterans, service personnel and victims, for whom this process has not worked for many years. I am afraid that veterans and their families have not been considered in a lot of these processes, and some of their experiences have been totally unacceptable. This Government were elected to change this nation’s relationship with our veterans. I am very proud that we are doing that now, and the whole House should be supportive of what we are trying to do to get this right.

[Carol Monaghan (Glasgow North West) (SNP) [V]]

I congratulate the right hon. Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) on securing this urgent question. I start by declaring my interest, as my husband is a veteran.

The Government are not short on rhetoric on the importance of our armed forces, but as usual the rhetoric does not match the reality. Part 2 of the Bill is yet another attack on our personnel and veterans. Those who have risked their lives in the service of our country will now have a limited period in which to pursue a claim. I know that the Minister said this morning that the six-year limit is from the point of diagnosis, but the culture in the military means that some personnel are told that they are unable to pursue a claim while they are serving, or told by those higher up the chain of command that they do not have a valid claim. Given that many conditions, such as deafness, asbestos poisoning and the impact of radiation exposure, can get worse over the years, what protections will be in place to enable such personnel to pursue their claims? According to the Government, the rationale for these proposals is that they will be beneficial to our armed forces personnel and veterans, so will the Minister give us some real evidence and examples of how personnel and veterans will benefit from this limit?

It is also unacceptable for the Government to introduce the Bill before publishing a formal response to their consultation, so when will that response be published? Why was an impact assessment not published alongside the Bill? The Government seem to be taking advantage of the fact that they are unique in their ability to legislate to restrict legal claims against them. Is it not in fact the case that, under the guise of benefiting service personnel and veterans, the Government are simply saving money from legal claims at the expense of injured veterans?

[Johnny Mercer]

I hope you will forgive me, Mr Speaker. I have an enormous amount of respect for many of my colleagues, but I have never heard such a load of rubbish in all my life. This Government have done more than any before them to improve the lot of veterans in this country, bar none.

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

What about the questions?

--- Later in debate ---

[Johnny Mercer]

I am answering the question—[Interruption.] Yes, I am answering the question. When it comes to the Bill, if the hon. Member for Glasgow North West (Carol Monaghan) has genuine concerns about how the rhetoric differs from this Government’s actions, I would ask her to look at some of the things we have done prior to the Bill, including establishing the Office for Veterans’ Affairs and the forces railcard, getting the census question in, and ensuring a guaranteed job for those in the civil service. The Government have fundamentally shifted the dial on this. Having written the Bill myself, I totally reject the idea that it reduces soldiers’ ability to make claims. For example, on the radiation question, the claim starts when the condition is diagnosed, as is the case with all other claims in this area.

It is worth saying how the Bill will change people’s lives. Had it been brought in prior to 2003, there would have been a 72% drop in the thousands of claims that were brought against service personnel in this country, of which none—none—were referred to prosecution. I urge hon. Members who are quick to champion and extol the values of veterans to shift from that, do something about it for once, and support the Bill.

[Bob Blackman (Harrow East) (Con) [V]]

I thank the Minister for not only his answers, but his dedication to improving the lives of service personnel in our country. I am grateful that the Government are committed to improving the lives of our armed forces personnel. Does he agree that it is our duty to end the unfair trials of service personnel who have served their country and our country?

[Johnny Mercer]

I agree wholeheartedly with my hon. Friend. That has been an injustice for many years. I often thought to myself, before I came to this place, how has that process been allowed to continue where those who serve this country on operations are treated like that afterwards?

It is clear to me that in this place, we are good at saying, “Aren’t our veterans brilliant? Don’t we owe them a huge debt?”, but when it comes to doing something about it—something a bit difficult and challenging—everybody runs for the hills. Well, this Government are not going to do that. We are going to legislate to protect those people from those who want to rewrite history to line their own pockets. Those days are over. I fully expect all hon. Members to support that effort.

[Andrew Gwynne (Denton and Reddish) (Lab) [V]]

I agree with the Minister’s intention to remove the ability to bring vexatious claims against our military personnel, which is why we have to get the detail of the Bill right and consider any possible unforeseen consequences of getting it wrong. Does he accept that there are often good and perfectly reasonable reasons why a soldier or veteran may not be able to bring a claim within six years, even if they knew about their injuries? How can we factor that in?

[Johnny Mercer]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for that constructive point. Let me be clear: I am absolutely happy to amend the legislation on the suggestion of any hon. Member to get it right, but it has to be based on fact and reality. The armed forces compensation scheme has a seven-year limit on it anyway. The Limitation Act 1980 also limits the time in which claims can be brought. If hon. Members want to discuss that more widely, clearly that is a broader issue. All we are doing is bringing into line our military personnel and veterans’ experiences.

I will be honest that I cannot, off the top of my head, think why individuals would be diagnosed and choose not to do anything about it, then choose to do something about it much later. I have not come across that in all my experience in the field, but I am happy to learn. If that is the case, I am happy to change the Bill, but that is not what experience shows us. I urge hon. Members to come up with constructive criticism and debate, so that we can really work on the Bill to get it right, because we all agree that we need to do it.

[Dr Andrew Murrison (South West Wiltshire) (Con)]

I welcome the spirit of the Bill. To congratulate the Minister, I will send him a copy of my book, “Tommy This an’ Tommy That: The military covenant”. He has done well to bring it thus far, but it is tipped to be heavily amended as it progresses through this place, not least because of Judge Jeff Blackett’s remarks. I press the Minister to look again at part 2, because it seems to me that the “no disadvantage” enjoinder within the military covenant is in danger of being overlooked. I know that he would not want to see that.

[Johnny Mercer]

I am more than happy to look at any part of the Bill, but as I am also bringing in legislation to make the armed forces covenant law and make it actually mean something, it would be quite bizarre for me to bring in another Bill that reduced it. I will, of course, look at that, but I do not accept that the Bill brings any disadvantage to those who have served.

[Patrick Grady (Glasgow North) (SNP)]

Will the Minister explain the rationale for six years rather than five years or, indeed, seven years, which he said was the time limit for one of the other claims? Given that these important issues obviously need independent oversight, does he think there is a role for the Intelligence and Security Committee to have that oversight?

[Johnny Mercer]

It is not for me to say what Committees should do. In terms of the timeframe, all this does is bring it into line with other HRA claims that can be brought forward at the moment. There is no finger in the air—“This is what we’re going to go for.” At the three-year point, courts will now have to consider special provisions that will have to be exceptional for a prosecutor to bring a claim, which brings this into line with other human rights legislation.

[Tom Tugendhat (Tonbridge and Malling) (Con)]

The first time I met my hon. Friend the Minister, in Kandahar, Afghanistan, both of us had somewhat smaller bellies and somewhat shorter hair. The lesson that we learnt out there about looking after the guys and girls we served with was an important one. Can he explain to the House what fundamental change this will make to ensure that their lives are better and that their families are not disrupted?

[Johnny Mercer]

That is a really good question, and I thank my hon. Friend for it. The way that this is going to change lives is by ending the uncertainty. If you have served on operations and you have not committed an offence, you will not be endlessly hounded by those who seek to bring spurious human rights claims. Let us remember how the IHAT process started. We had Public Interest Lawyers driving around Iraq, essentially acting as legal team for the Mahdi army—it was absolutely bizarre. This will change the experience for service personnel, veterans and their families and provide certainty for them and for victims, to clear this mess up and restore fairness to the process.

[Mr Alistair Carmichael (Orkney and Shetland) (LD)]

It should be possible to build an easy consensus in the House on protection for those who have given service in the past, but the Bill that the Minister claims to have drafted himself does a lot more than that. A prescription and limitation on actions brought in respect of torture, crimes against humanity and war crimes is a significant departure on which he will not build a consensus and for which those who give service in our armed forces would not want people to be protected. Will he look again at that provision?

[Johnny Mercer]

I am happy to look at any aspect of the Bill, but let me be clear: the retrospective application of the Human Rights Act to the battlefield is inappropriate and has caused a lot of the problems that we have had. We want to restore the supremacy of the law of armed conflict in the Geneva conventions. We do a good job of holding our people to account. We are not going to allow the legislation that the right hon. Gentleman mentions to be abused and used in a way that it was never designed to be used in order to bring claims against our service personnel and make their lives a misery.

[James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con)]

The rules of engagement for overseas land operations are covered by what is known as Card Alpha. Could the Minister reassure the House that soldiers who pull the trigger in accordance with Card Alpha or its tri-service equivalent can get on with their lives, safe in the knowledge that they will never again be pursued by ambulance-chasing lawyers?

[Johnny Mercer]

For me, service in the military is very clear. You adhere to the law. If you break the law, you will be charged and prosecuted. If you do nothing wrong, you have nothing to worry about. You operate within the law of armed conflict. Those who are elected to this place to look after you will, from this point on, do their job and protect you.

[Jim Shannon (Strangford) (DUP)]

The Minister has stated that fairness is at the heart of this, and I thank him for that. Does he agree that soldiers who are injured or deployed internationally in service of Queen and country deserve the same route to civil satisfaction as the civil servants in Whitehall, who have no restrictions and no limitations on their civil liability claim ability?

[Johnny Mercer]

I believe that those who operate in our armed forces are entitled to the protection they deserve. This Bill protects them. That is why I struggle to understand the context, because this is all about protecting our servicemen and women from an abhorrent process that has ruined some of our finest people over the years. I am happy to look again at all aspects of the Bill, but I want to build a collegiate approach in this House to get the Bill through. We agree that this must happen—let us get it done.

[Stuart Anderson (Wolverhampton South West) (Con)]

As a Northern Ireland veteran who served during the troubles, it would be remiss of me not to say this: I am very grateful for everything my hon. Friend has done to get us to this point, but now that he is the Minister, will he apologise on behalf of the MOD for the decades of harassment that our troops and veterans have faced?

[Johnny Mercer]

Look, there is no doubt that the prominent protagonists in this have been human rights lawyers, who have abused that system in order to make money, abusing some of the poorest people in the world in the process. But what I would say is that, yes, there are elements that the MOD could and should have done better and for some of our people, those experiences have been unacceptable—and for those, yes, I do apologise.

[Mr Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

The Minister now says that he is willing to relook at all aspects of the Bill, which is precisely what my right hon. Friend the Member for Wentworth and Dearne (John Healey) asked him to do half an hour ago. Across the House, there is an understanding about the desire to get away from these vexatious claims, but what Members on both sides are telling him is that there are unintended consequences from the way that the Bill is currently structured. He should listen to prevent veterans being penalised while he is trying to do something that we all support.

[Johnny Mercer]

Veterans are not being penalised. If they were, I would not bring this legislation in. I have not said that I am going to look at all aspects of the Bill; I have made it very clear that I am happy to discuss amendments and changes that people want to make to get the Bill through, but I will also not do it on the back of things that are patently untrue.

[Dr Luke Evans (Bosworth) (Con) [V]]

In my short time as MP for Bosworth, I have had veterans writing to me and coming to my surgery. They do not want to be above the law, but they do not want vexatious claims either, so these changes are well overdue. What will my hon. Friend do to make sure that the balance is preserved and that servicemen and women, both past and present, are of course held to account, but also protected?

[Johnny Mercer]

A huge part of my efforts in the MOD is about having a better system to hold our servicepeople to account. There is no doubt about it—if we had had better investigations in the first place, we would not be here, so there is a twin-track approach, trying to get the balance of fairness so that those who break the law are held to account, but ultimately, if people have done nothing wrong, they can live the rest of their life in peace.

[Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab)]

Can the Minister explain why British soldiers should have less recourse to compensation from their employer than the civilians they defend?

--- Later in debate ---

[Johnny Mercer]

They do not. The armed forces compensation scheme is out there for everybody to read. It is a good scheme. It is constantly reviewed and it has come on leaps and bounds in the last 10 or 15 years. I am sure that there will be another review of it in the future, but I am afraid that the points that the hon. Lady makes are simply incorrect.

[Fay Jones (Brecon and Radnorshire) (Con)]

Brecon is a proud garrison town with a high concentration of infantry veterans. The Minister has met me a number of times to discuss my constituents’ concerns, so I have seen at first hand his commitment to righting the wrongs done to our veterans. Does he agree that the closure of Brecon barracks, erasing the history of the Army in Wales, would be another such wrong?

[Johnny Mercer]

The closure of barracks and the footprint of the military in this country is something that we take very seriously, but let me be clear that the defining issue in that will be the quality of life for our service personnel, and we will make sure that it is acceptable.

[Neil Gray (Airdrie and Shotts) (SNP) [V]]

The House should know that I have a brother who is a current Army officer and another brother who is a retired Army officer. I also have constituents who have waited years to have medical issues brought on by their service even recognised by the military, never mind the fight that they then have to get the correct support. Taking what the Minister has said about wanting to ensure that there is no disadvantage to veterans, will he outline how exactly he will guarantee that, and that the 60-year rule will not harm injured veterans, as there is great concern among them right now?

[Johnny Mercer]

Again, I wonder if anybody could show me how this legislation is going to genuinely make somebody’s life worse—the compensation claim starts when that illness or injury is recognised or is a point of knowledge. This does not affect that in any way.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

I endorse the question asked by my hon. Friend the Member for Wolverhampton South West (Stuart Anderson) and thank the Minister for his very clear answer, which is an apology for what has happened, fundamentally. I remind him that we still have the problem of veterans in Northern Ireland, but I will not linger on that. The only point I would like to make is that having listened to what people have said today, it seems to me that everyone in the House is up to sort out any little problem that might occur. We all want the best possible circumstances for our servicemen and women, either past or present, and for their conditions to be as good as they can be, and I think that my hon. Friend would agree with that.

[Johnny Mercer]

I completely agree with that, but we are not going to base policy on things that are simply incorrect. This has been an issue for 40 years because people have not wanted to tackle difficult matters. This Government are going to do that, and we will bring forward legislation in September.

[Robbie Moore (Keighley) (Con)]

We owe a great deal of gratitude to our serving armed personnel, and I was lucky enough to meet Luke Davison from Keighley who served in the Yorkshire Regiment. Does my hon. Friend agree that it is our duty, through this Bill, to ensure that we get the protections the armed services need when deployed?

[Johnny Mercer]

My hon. Friend is right. The Bill seeks to attain the balance between justice for victims and for veterans. We need to restore fairness to this process, and this Government are determined to do so.

[Mr Speaker]

That concludes the urgent question. It might be helpful for hon. Members to be aware that I will permit the Secretary of State for Health and Social Care to make an important statement providing an update on coronavirus at 5 pm today. Member Hub will be open shortly for Members who wish to take part, and it will close at 1 pm.

To allow the safe exit of hon. Members who have participated in this item of business, and the safe arrival of those who wish to participate in the next debate, I will now suspend the House for a few minutes.

Defence

Johnny Mercer Excerpts

Monday 13th July 2020 Ministerial Corrections

[Navendu Mishra]

The Minister said that the veterans’ gateway app would put veterans’ care in the palm of every veteran in the country. Can he tell us how many people have downloaded and used this app in its first two months?

[Johnny Mercer]

I have not formally launched the veterans’ gateway app at the moment. We are going through a process of working with users and so on to make it more user-friendly. That is an ambition of mine: to put veterans’ care in the palm of every single veteran in this country. We will have a formal launch and I would be delighted if the hon. Gentleman came with me to that launch. We can then look at the figures together and perhaps work on getting the app into more people’s pockets as we go.

[Official Report, 6 July 2020, Vol. 678, c. 650.]

Letter of correction from the Minister for Defence People and Veterans, the hon. Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Johnny Mercer):

An error has been identified in the response I gave to the hon. Member for Stockport (Navendu Mishra).

The correct response should have been:

[Johnny Mercer]

I launched the veterans’ gateway app on 1 May. We are going through a process of working with users and so on to make it more user-friendly. That is an ambition of mine: to put veterans’ care in the palm of every single veteran in this country. We will have a formal event and I would be delighted if the hon. Gentleman came with me to that event. We can then look at the figures together and perhaps work on getting the app into more people’s pockets as we go.

The following is an extract from Defence questions on Monday 6 July 2020.

[Margaret Greenwood [V]]

The Minister said that the veterans’ gateway app will put veterans’ care in the palm of every veteran in the country. Will he tell us what estimate his Department has made of the number of veterans who do not have a smartphone and what his Department is doing to reach them?

[Johnny Mercer]

It is a completely fair point that many of our veterans are of an age group who will not be digitally able to access this app. The app was never designed to be something that is all encompassing. It is simply another measure in the suite of options that we are offering to veterans in this country to make sure that this is the best country in the world in which to be an armed forces veteran. There is a whole host of other ways of looking after our veterans, such as breakfast clubs that we all get involved in. When this app does come out, I will be looking at ways to make it even more user-friendly, particularly to our older veterans, to whom we owe such a great debt.

[Official Report, 6 July 2020, Vol. 678, c. 651.]

Letter of correction from the Minister for Defence People and Veterans, the hon. Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Johnny Mercer):

An error has been identified in the response I gave to the hon. Member for Wirral West (Margaret Greenwood).

The correct response should have been:

[Johnny Mercer]

It is a completely fair point that many of our veterans are of an age group who will not be digitally able to access this app. The app was never designed to be something that is all encompassing. It is simply another measure in the suite of options that we are offering to veterans in this country to make sure that this is the best country in the world in which to be an armed forces veteran. There is a whole host of other ways of looking after our veterans, such as breakfast clubs that we all get involved in. Before the app launched we did extensive testing to ensure it was user-friendly, particularly to our older veterans, to whom we owe such a great debt.

Armed Forces Pay Review Body: Appointments

Johnny Mercer Excerpts

Tuesday 7th July 2020 Written Statements

[The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Johnny Mercer)]

I am pleased to announce that the Secretary of State for Defence has appointed Miss Jenni Douglas Todd, Mr Julian Miller CB and Rear Admiral William Entwisle OBE MVO as members of the armed forces’ pay review body. Their appointment commenced on 20 May 2020 and will run until 30 April 2023. These appointments have been conducted in accordance with the governance code for public appointments.

[HCWS341]

Service Complaints Ombudsman’s Annual Report 2019

Johnny Mercer Excerpts

Tuesday 12th May 2020 Written Statements

[The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Johnny Mercer)]

I am pleased to lay before Parliament today the service complaints ombudsman’s annual report for 2019 on the fairness, effectiveness and efficiency of the service complaints system.

This report is published by Nicola Williams—her last as ombudsman—and covers the fourth year of operation of the reformed service complaints system and the work of her office in 2019.

The findings of the report and the new recommendations made will now be considered fully by the Ministry of Defence, and a formal response to the ombudsman will follow once that work is complete.

[HCWS230]

Defence

Johnny Mercer Excerpts

Monday 16th March 2020 Ministerial Corrections

The following is an extract from the Westminster Hall debate on Mental Health of Veterans on 11 March 2020.

[Johnny Mercer]

… The reality when it comes to figures and so on is that we are—the rate of suicide in the service community is eight in 100,000; in the civilian equivalent cohort it is 32 in 100,000. People who have served in the military are less likely to take their own life. However, he is absolutely right that each one of these suicides is a tragedy not only for the individual and their family, but for us as an institution, because we owe this unique debt of gratitude towards those who serve.

[Official Report, 11 March 2020, Vol. 673, c. 126WH.]

Letter of correction from the Minister for Defence People and Veterans, the hon. Member for Plymouth, Moor View (Johnny Mercer):

An error has been identified in my reply to the debate secured by the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone).

The correct statement should have been:

[Johnny Mercer]

… The reality when it comes to figures and so on is that we are—the rate of suicide in the service community is eight in 100,000; in the civilian equivalent cohort it is 17 in 100,000. People who have served in the military are less likely to take their own life. However, he is absolutely right that each one of these suicides is a tragedy not only for the individual and their family, but for us as an institution, because we owe this unique debt of gratitude towards those who serve.

Veterans’ Mental Health

Johnny Mercer Excerpts

Thursday 12th March 2020 Commons Chamber

[The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Johnny Mercer)]

It is with deep regret that I can confirm that an incident occurred at Camp Taji in Iraq last night in which a service person from the Royal Army Medical Corps has died. The service person’s family have been informed, and requested a period of privacy before further details are released. It is a timely reminder of the ongoing and extraordinary commitment of the men and women of our armed forces. It was a cowardly and retrograde attack, and there will be no hiding place as we hunt down those responsible and bring them to justice. The thoughts and sympathies of the Prime Minister, the Government and the whole House are with the family and friends of the service person at this sad time.

Mr Speaker, following an internal review commissioned by my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State for Defence, I wish to make a statement about serving and former members of the armed forces ending their own lives. Speaking publicly about suicide requires a balance between risking similar episodes and ensuring that I follow through on the Prime Minister’s intent to ensure that every serving or former member of the armed forces knows exactly where to turn in times of acute need. I am very aware of how it feels to be a member of a service family, particularly a spouse or relative of someone who feels that they have nowhere to turn or that Ministers are indifferent to the situation. It is this that has led me to make this statement to the House.

Suicide is almost never due to a single factor, and some reasons are impossible to identify. However, the facts on suicide in the armed forces remain broadly consistent. Current data shows that someone is significantly less likely to take their own life if they are in the armed forces—the rate is around eight in 100,000, compared with around 17 in 100,000 in the equivalent male population in the United Kingdom—but we are not complacent, and I accept that Governments have not acted fast enough to update our data and understanding of military suicide.

I am aware that we are currently experiencing a higher incidence of suicide in a cohort who served at a specific time in Afghanistan. Some people want to make suicide about numbers, but suicide is not a number. One is too many, and in my view any suicide is an individual tragedy—yes, for that person and of course for their family, but also for the military as an institution. I must, however, challenge a false narrative that veteran suicide is an epidemic, or that professional clinical services are not there. They are there. Such comments risk harming others by wrongly fuelling a perception that help is not there when it is. I therefore wish to outline to the House what I am doing about it.

I am committed to providing better support for individuals in mental distress, and to learning why suicide happens and what more can be done to stop an individual reaching the decision to end their life. I meet with families, widows and experts to understand when, or if, we could or should have intervened in those crucial weeks and months before an individual took their own life—even if sometimes the answer is tragically nothing. Alongside that work, we are aiming to reduce suicide risk through tackling stigma, through education, and by providing access to mental and physical health support. Armed forces personnel now undergo “through life” psychological resilience training, enabling them to recognise and manage mental ill health in themselves and their colleagues. This actively encourages help-seeking at an early stage.

Data is key to understanding what more needs to happen. The Ministry of Defence tracks all suicides for serving personnel and annually publishes data on coroner-confirmed suicides. It tells us that we are seeing more deaths in recent years, but the number is still well below that observed in the 1990s. Unlike in the 1990s, this is not predominantly an untrained young Army male issue, but predominantly a male issue, and in older age groups, which reflects the trends in wider UK society.

A 2018 review saw the implementation of new suicide prevention measures across defence, and a defence suicide registry will capture information related to in-service suicide across the services.

The Office for Veterans’ Affairs is funding the next stage of a long-term study of nearly 30,000 veterans who deployed to Iraq and Afghanistan. Started in 2003 and led by the world’s leading experts at King’s College, this provides data that ensures better Government policy decisions about veterans. The Ministry of Defence and the Department of Health and Social Care together will fund Manchester University to examine, over the past five years, the 12 months leading up to veterans’ taking their own lives.

A new veteran mortality study will show the incidence of suicide, alongside other causes of death, among veterans who served since 2001. I am expanding this study so that it provides, for the first time, a near real-time surveillance capability, ensuring that we can respond quickly to any new cluster of events. The first report will be published later this year.

More importantly, a shift is under way in the provision of veterans’ mental health support—help is out there. For many years, I and others have called for this nation to realise her responsibilities towards those who have served. That strategic change is happening.

It is the NHS in England and the devolved Administrations who deliver veterans’ healthcare. Over the years, our service charities have shouldered much of this, underpinned by the generosity of the public. This is changing and I commend the NHS on its efforts to provide services, including those bespoke for veterans, some of which the NHS commissions the charity sector to provide. It has transformed its provision for the armed forces. A clear clinical pathway exists for veterans’ mental health services in England, with the transition, intervention and liaison service, and the complex treatment service. I have worked recently with the NHS and ministerial colleagues to accelerate the introduction of a new high-intensity service for those in most acute need, following the challenges faced by Combat Stress.

These services mean that the state is now leading the way in supporting our veterans, though a range of partnerships, including with the third sector and others. The help is there, and we all need to be better at encouraging our family, friends and colleagues to seek it.

Veterans will have experiences, training, friendships, highs and lows like no other profession. Some may feel far from those times, challenged by the reality of resuming civilian life after intensive and unique experiences. I am ensuring that the help is there to make that transition successfully.

I care and this Government care, with record investment reinforced by yesterday’s Budget’s additional funding for veterans’ mental health. A strategic shift is taking place, from reliance on the third sector to the state finally realising her responsibilities, ensuring that this country is the best place to be a veteran and everyone knows where to get help. This Prime Minister will accept nothing less. Having shared those battlefields with you, I have staked my professional reputation on it. But it requires everyone to play a role—to speak out, to reach out, to look after yourselves and each other. And never, ever give up. I commend this statement to the House.

[Mr Stephen Morgan (Portsmouth South) (Lab)]

I thank the Minister for the advance copy of his statement.

First, I would like to take a moment to also express our sincere condolences to the loved ones of the service person from the Royal Army Medical Corps who so tragically died at Camp Taji in Iraq last night, and with the loved ones of Private Joseph Berry, who died last week due to a non-battle injury in Afghanistan. Our thoughts and sympathies are with them today.

We know that most service personnel transition successfully back to civilian life. However, there are some who struggle and need our continued support. I welcome the Minister’s statement, but nevertheless there is still much more that needs to be done.

We know that some veterans who struggle ultimately, and tragically, end up taking their own lives. Indeed, there are reports that 14 former and current serving personnel have committed suicide in the past two months alone, many of them having served in Afghanistan.

The Minister has raised the point about data collection for serving personnel. However, we do not know the full scale of this crisis for veterans, because unlike our major allies, such as Canada, New Zealand and the US, coroners in the UK do not record veterans’ suicides. This lack of data makes it extremely difficult to know the full scale of the problem, but it also makes it difficult to provide better, more targeted interventions. I and others, including the former head of the armed forces and several military charities, have raised that issue before. Will the Minister update the House on what action is being taken by the MOD and the Ministry of Justice to improve the situation of recording veterans’ suicides?

The Minister’s statement also raised the huge issue of stigma around mental health. I appreciate that he is working to improve the situation, but some reports suggest that approximately 60% of military personnel who experience mental health problems do not seek help. The Minister mentions “through life” psychological resilience training, but it is important to ensure that the MOD continues to work with our civilian services to support our personnel once they have left the forces. Indeed, armed forces charities have found that it can take four years on average before Iraq and Afghanistan veterans seek help for mental health issues. Despite this, the MOD follow-up period for writing to veterans is only one year after discharge. Will the Minister update us on the steps being taken to expand and improve transition support for veterans post-service?

Finally, I closely followed the Chancellor’s Budget speech yesterday and was disappointed to find out that only £10 million extra was going to veterans’ mental health services, through the Armed Forces Covenant Fund Trust. That is 0.007% of the NHS budget—a minuscule amount. What extra funding will the Minister be seeking for veterans’ mental health in this autumn’s comprehensive spending review, to ensure that veterans’ mental health is treated on an equal platform to physical health?

Our armed forces work hard to keep us safe so that we can live our lives to the full without fear. Day in, day out, they do things that cross the line into the remarkable. It is only just, fair and right that we have veterans’ mental health care provision worthy of these men and women.

[Johnny Mercer]

I thank the hon. Gentleman for raising clear and pertinent points in this fight to understand this issue. I will cover them in turn.

We are in conversation with the coroner service about coroner data. The hon. Gentleman will understand that suicide is a very complex and difficult issue. When it comes to data, Governments of all colours over the years have started from a very low point. That is why some of the earliest funds of the Office for Veterans’ Affairs have gone into gathering the data—so that we can lead the way with evidence-based, research-based, genuine solutions to provide outcomes to our servicemen and women. A number of studies are under way. I mentioned the cohort study and our “through life” study of three quarters of a million veterans. Conversations are ongoing with the coroner service and I am happy to write to the hon. Gentleman with an update.

I believe that this place has made serious progress on stigma. When I first came here in 2015 and talked about the issue, we were in a very different place with mental health. Sterling work has been done by other people and I believe we are beginning to win the battle on stigma. The critical ground now is not stigma but the need to ensure that when people have the courage to come forward, the services and provision are there to meet their needs. I am fully focused on that.

On resilience training, the military now is a fundamentally different experience from five or 10 years ago. Op Smart and other service applications are doing brilliant work. We take the issue very seriously. Mental fitness and mental wellbeing are embedded in training, in phase 1 and throughout a person’s career. Indeed, we are looking to launch an enhanced programme later this year, with the Royal Foundation.

There is a challenge in tracing people who have left the forces, as we do not have a veterans’ administration like our colleagues in the United States, and nor would I seek to create one. But there is work that we can do. Three months ago, I tasked the Department to come up with options for tracing individuals as they go back into civilian life. There are mechanisms through which to do this already, such as writing to people to remind them of their reserve service. I am looking to couple that with a requirement for a GP appointment or similar—even if people feel well and do not want to go—so that we can get a better handle on outcomes.

I warmly welcome the commitment in yesterday’s Budget to funding for mental health. That funding is going to a specific area, but in no way is that the total amount going into veterans’ health. I have asked the Department to do a study outlining what we are actually doing. We are investing more than £200 million in veterans’ mental health over the next 10 years, but I accept that it can be hard to see where some of this stuff goes and what we are doing with it, which is why I have tasked the Department with making clear what we are spending where. It is not fair on the professionals who are working so hard in this arena day to day for politicians to try to score points on money when there is a whole load of money going into this project, but I accept that we need to do better to get that message out there. The shadow Minister makes a fair point. This is a challenge for the Department, but we will meet it. I look forward to meetings with him in due course. This is not a party political issue. We have to meet this challenge and, under this Prime Minister, we will.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I intend to get everybody in who was here at the beginning of the statement.

[Dr Julian Lewis (New Forest East) (Con)]

With the Minister’s own strong record on the subject, I am sure that he will agree that the misapplication of human rights law to the battlefield, rather than the law of armed conflict, is a cause of immense stress and mental distress to the veteran population who have taken part in campaigns and fear being dragged through the courts. When will the Government be bringing forward the promised legislation—I have in mind the promise made on Armistice Day last year, during the election campaign —to stop the repeated reinvestigation of veterans in the absence of any compelling new evidence?

[Johnny Mercer]

I thank my right hon. Friend for his continued doggedness on this issue. I can confirm that I will be introducing a Bill on Wednesday next week that meets our manifesto commitment on this issue. The Prime Minister has made it absolutely clear that the days of lawyers running amok in our services and our veterans community, trying to rewrite history in order to make money, are over. Through a series of measures starting next Wednesday when I will introduce the Bill, this Government are going to go to war on lawfare, and we will ensure that those who serve are protected when they come home by those who should be protecting them.

[Kenny MacAskill (East Lothian) (SNP)]

I thank the Minister for the advance copy and the tenor of his statement. This is a vital but distressing topic that is altogether rather shameful on us all.

Like the Minister, I have met individuals who have suffered. My old Scottish parliamentary seat contained an Army personnel treatment centre that dealt with not physical injuries, but psychological ones. The people treated there were overwhelmingly young men who were being prepared for discharge because of the experiences they had endured in the conflicts to which the Minister has referred. I can appreciate that the Army has difficulty in dealing with these issues because they often manifest years down the line. It could take three months, three years or 30 years for people to experience effects, but sadly we know that they do. Indeed, the Minister is making this very statement because these issues sadly result in the tragedies that we have seen.

There is a responsibility—if not for the Army, most certainly for the state—to address this issue. It cannot simply be left to the third sector and worthy charities, no matter how valiant their efforts are; we are required to do this collectively. In that regard, may I ask the Minister specifically about the war disablement pension? The Department for Work and Pensions currently counts the pension as income in employment and support allowance applications. It is hardly a king’s ransom for people taking the king’s shilling and, indeed, suffering for their country. Will the Minister and his colleagues ensure that this modest compensation—made for suffering sustained in the line of duty—does not count against people? It seems to me the very least that we can do.

[Johnny Mercer]

The hon. Gentleman is right. The war disablement pension is listed, in line with all other pensions, as a source of income against universal credit, but it is different in different cases—for example, payments made to widows and so on. There are aspects that do not count against benefit claimants. We are trying to achieve the right balance of fairness across the country, but this is something that I look at on an ongoing basis and I would be more than happy to have a conversation about it with the hon. Gentleman offline.

[Bob Stewart (Beckenham) (Con)]

I commend my hon. Friend and, indeed, all Governments for all they have done in this area. When I came back from a very heavy tour in Bosnia in 1993, I had an interview with a psychiatrist. He said to me, “How do you feel?” I said, “Fine.” He said, “Thanks” and left. Things have changed. There is £10 million of extra funding going into the covenant specifically for mental health. May I pitch again to my very good friend the Minister on behalf of PTSD Resolution, which has never, ever taken a penny from the Government, but which does such sterling work?

[Johnny Mercer]

My hon. and gallant Friend is a long-term and passionate advocate of PTSD Resolution, which does good work. In the framework of veterans’ mental health, I will be bringing forward a programme in April that I will launch with Simon Stevens, the director of NHS England. My hon. Friend will see that that programme includes a clear role for charities of whatever size to bid to run some of the specialist services that PTSD Resolution and others do so well. The offering to our people is changing and I encourage my hon. Friend, PTSD Resolution and others to work together. We can meet this challenge if we work together and focus on outcomes, as I know both he and PTSD Resolution want to do.

[Matt Western (Warwick and Leamington) (Lab)]

Like the Minister, I have met several veterans who suffer from PTSD, most notably about 18 months ago when I met soldier N, who was like a coiled spring; I could sense the tension in his body and face about the trauma he had been through. Will the Minister support my call to provide homes for these heroes to give them that first step back into our civilian society, and to ensure that we have in place the wraparound service—with mental health and other provisions—to enable them through this difficult time?

--- Later in debate ---

[Johnny Mercer]

I am not going to comment on individual cases because some are very difficult. The aspiration is absolutely there to provide a wraparound service. I am not sure that providing a house for individuals when they leave service is necessarily the nirvana that people think it is. The single biggest factor that will improve veterans’ life chances is having a job, and we can do more in that area. I am more than happy to have a conversation with the hon. Member about this issue.

[Sir Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for his evident personal commitment to the mental health of veterans and members of the armed forces. This is a very big change and we very much appreciate it. I also thank the Chancellor of the Exchequer for the contribution he is making through the Budget and the £10 million he has allocated for this purpose.

Will the Minister expand a little on what he said about his efforts to

“accelerate the introduction of a…high-intensity service for those in most acute need, following the challenges faced by Combat Stress”?

I am a vice-president of Combat Stress. For all the efforts of Combat Stress to change its organisation to a hub-and-spoke model, which is being supported by charities such as the Royal British Legion, the anxiety is that the withdrawal of a large chunk of NHS funding—we are grateful for the new contract that has been granted, but it is a very much smaller one—will mean that there will be veterans who slip through the cracks. Some 1,500 or so veterans will now be entirely dependent on going through their GP and into the veterans services provided by the NHS, and there is a deep anxiety that people will not get the treatment they need, albeit that we very much applaud the efforts of the NHS to improve what it offers to veterans.

[Johnny Mercer]

I thank my hon. Friend and pay tribute to Combat Stress for the work that it does. For many years—over 100 years—mental health in this country was not taken seriously, and almost alone Combat Stress held a candle for some of our most injured service people. There is no doubt that veterans’ care is changing. Although £10 million on its own looks like a small contribution, we are actually putting over £200 million into veterans’ mental health over the next 10 years. There is a very clear, defined and important role for people such as those at Combat Stress, who have a specialist, important contribution to make in the area of complex PTSD and things like that. I am more than happy to meet my hon. Friend to talk about this further offline, but there should be no misunderstanding at this stage. Combat Stress is going through a change, but we must all change to adapt to the challenge that is in front of us. Combat Stress has a special place in this nation’s heart, and a full and important role to play in future.

[Yvonne Fovargue (Makerfield) (Lab)]

Does the Minister agree that there should be more initiatives like the veterans’ hub in Wigan? This is a dedicated building, supported by the MOD and Wigan Council, that has a one-stop shop providing access to employment, healthcare and a range of charities so that veterans and their families can get the help they need when they need it.

--- Later in debate ---

[Johnny Mercer]

These veterans’ hubs up and down the country are exactly what we are looking to promote more widely. Someone in Wigan who has one of these services has an advantage, because people are already of that way of thinking in bringing the services together and trying to treat the challenges that veterans have not as individual problems but as something requiring a whole solution. One of the key tasks of the Office for Veterans’ Affairs is making sure that best practice is rolled out across the country so that the experience of being a veteran is the same in Plymouth, Wigan and Manchester, and so that we meet the commitment that I have made, and the Prime Minister has made, to this House that this will be the best country in the world in which to be an armed forces veteran.

[Jo Gideon (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Con)]

I agree with my hon. Friend that the ability to speedily find a high-skilled, high-quality job after leaving the forces is essential to help veterans to transition back into civilian life, and for their mental health. What progress has he made in increasing the numbers of veterans who have transitioned successfully into civilian employment?

[Johnny Mercer]

Two weeks ago, we had our figures out from the Career Transition Partnership, which does a lot of this work for us. Ninety-two per cent. of people who come out of the services go into education or employment. We have very good figures, rising year on year, on this, but it is not a case of self-congratulation. We have to work ever harder with that small cohort, who come out often with concomitant challenges around mental health or their domestic situation, and make sure that there is no reason why any individual who comes out of the military who is not medically discharged cannot go straight into employment. Being in the military is one of the best things you can do as a young person in this country: it gives you skills and capabilities that you will not get anywhere else. I am absolutely committed to making sure that everybody who leaves without a medical discharge finds employment.

[Wendy Chamberlain (North East Fife) (LD)]

I congratulate my hon. Friend the Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) on holding a debate on this important issue yesterday. I attended that debate, and I thank the Minister for doing so. I also thank him for his willingness to work on this issue on a cross-party basis. With lots of talk about strategy, funding and intent, what practical steps is the Minister’s Department taking to work across Government Departments and with the devolved Administrations to deliver the critical support, which several Members have referenced, that veterans with mental health issues require?

[Johnny Mercer]

This is the first Government ever to set up a body, the Office for Veterans’ Affairs, whose key mission is to do that. It will pull together a lot of the great work that goes on in the veterans space, whether in the NHS or in the Department for Work and Pensions, where we have seen good schemes roll out this week. I am acutely aware that nobody “owns” veterans. Nobody “owns” veterans’ mental health. It is a duty of this nation to get this right, cross-party and cross-departmentally, and I am absolutely committed that that is exactly what the Office for Veterans’ Affairs is going to do.

[Scott Benton (Blackpool South) (Con)]

I am proud that our party has enshrined the armed forces covenant in law, highlighting the importance that we place on our armed forces. What steps is my hon. Friend taking to ensure that local authorities sign up to the covenant so that they can support people with their housing and local services needs?

[Johnny Mercer]

The armed forces covenant is an important piece of work that has brought us on a long way, but it is clear to me that we need to strengthen it. In the Queen’s Speech, this Government committed to enshrining the armed forces covenant in law so that no individual, or their family, can be disadvantaged because of their service. We are going to bring that in during this Parliament, and it will strengthen the armed forces covenant further. I sincerely hope that there is not a single local authority in this country that has not signed up to it.

[Stephen Farry (North Down) (Alliance)]

I concur with the Minister’s original statement and look forward to the roll-out of the military covenant in Northern Ireland, but I do take issue with his answer to the former Chair of the Defence Committee. In doing so, I challenge the narrative of vexatious claims being made against veterans, particularly in relation to Northern Ireland. It undermines the criminal justice system in Northern Ireland, which has the ability to weed out such claims; I do not even believe that examples have been cited. Can I urge the Minister to reflect on what may well be an unintended consequence of the road he is going down? Tens of thousands of people served with great honour and distinction in Northern Ireland, upholding the rule of law. If we end up putting in place some sort of measure to give unnecessary protection and warp the rule of law, that may end up de-legitimising and undermining the integrity of their service, which they are rightly very proud of.

[Johnny Mercer]

I reassure the hon. Gentleman that I tread with the utmost care when it comes to dealing with the very bloody, very difficult and very emotional scenarios surrounding historical prosecutions. There is absolutely no Minister or individual in my position, from the Prime Minister downwards, who would ever accept that those who serve in uniform commit crimes and we do not hold them to account. Under my watch, that will never happen. But we are going to ensure that the balance and fairness in this process are restored so that those who have served their country and done nothing wrong can retire from their military service in peace. It is a challenge, but this Government are not going to run from that. We are going to meet that challenge. The hon. Gentleman will know of the many, many servicemen and women and veterans, and their families, who have been dragged through a totally unacceptable process for many years. This process is about fairness and about justice, not only for them but for people in Afghanistan, Iraq and Northern Ireland. I urge him to work with us in the weeks ahead as we tread carefully down this path.

[Aaron Bell (Newcastle-under-Lyme) (Con)]

I thank my hon. Friend for his statement on this challenging but vital issue. May I invite him to praise the work of the Tri Services and Veterans Support Centre in Newcastle-under-Lyme, which I am meeting tomorrow? Community centres such as that are an invaluable source of support to our veterans, both the recently retired and those who served many decades ago. I am sure it would give him a very warm welcome if and when his diary allows.

[Johnny Mercer]

I thank my hon. Friend for his contribution. I cherish any opportunity to get away from London—I was going to say this place, but that is too much—and I would be delighted to come on a visit and see that good work. There is some wonderful practice going on across the country, and I am absolutely determined to champion it.

[Greg Smith (Buckingham) (Con)]

I very much welcome all the work that my hon. Friend is doing in this field. Given what he said about strengthening the armed forces covenant, what steps is he taking to encourage universities to sign up to the covenant, so that our veterans do not face barriers when they apply for education?

[Johnny Mercer]

I want to be clear with my hon. Friend: there is no reason why any organisation in this country that takes public money cannot sign up to the armed forces covenant. There is no reason why somebody who has served or their family should suffer any disadvantage because of their service. Where that is happening, I urge people to get in touch with me. We are legislating to ensure that that cannot be the case, to put the power of the armed forces covenant into individuals’ hands and to make it really mean something.

[Mr Deputy Speaker (Mr Nigel Evans)]

I thank the Minister for his statement.

Bill Presented

Gender-based Pricing (Prohibition) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Christine Jardine, supported by Daisy Cooper, Wendy Chamberlain, Layla Moran, Sarah Olney, Wera Hobhouse, Munira Wilson, Jess Phillips, Caroline Nokes, Mrs Maria Miller and Hannah Bardell, presented a Bill to prohibit the differential pricing of products and services that are substantially similar other than being intended for, or marketed to, a particular gender; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 27 November, and to be printed (Bill 105).

Mental Health of Veterans

Johnny Mercer Excerpts

Wednesday 11th March 2020 Westminster Hall

[The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Johnny Mercer)]

It is a pleasure to speak under your leadership this morning, Mr Stringer.

I pay tribute to the hon. Member for Caithness, Sutherland and Easter Ross (Jamie Stone) for his interest and for the way he continually drives the debate. Clearly, I have a script that talks about all the stuff we are doing, but I want to answer some of the specific points that he has raised this morning. I am delighted that he shows such an interest in the subject. He will know that support for veterans was a driving force for me in coming to Parliament; I wanted to drive through change. I can honestly say to him that there a shift in strategy is under way in how we support armed forces veterans. For too long, colleagues in charities and in this House have asked the Government to step up and do more, and we are now starting to do that. I do not pretend for an instant that we have always got it right. That has led to some of the challenges that we face today, and I came into Government specifically to try to lead the change.

I want to challenge a couple of things that were said, and the first relates to the portrayal of veterans. There is no doubt that some of our people are extremely poorly because of what we have asked them to do over a number of years. I am acutely aware of that. The Prime Minister and I are acutely aware that the nation has a debt of gratitude to them that must be realised by more than words and ceremonies in Whitehall; it must be repaid by provision to look after them throughout life. It is important to me to challenge the portrayal of the problem as greater than it is. There is in the country undoubtedly a way of portraying veterans—exacerbated by the media and TV programmes—that suggests that military service or combat experience equal mental health problems. In reality, we all know that that is not so, and we cannot say that too much, because the problems that that view causes are significant. This week we are bringing in changes with respect to national insurance contributions, and that is important because although there are pretty good veterans programmes at big firms in cities, for people who can get access to those workplaces, sometimes when I have been to towns and cities someone from the CBI has stood up and said, “I can’t take the risk on a veteran.” They are worried about whether they will be off sick, and all the concomitant issues with service. We must be careful about the narrative that veterans are all broken. I would not advance this view if it were not true: the vast majority leave their service greatly enhanced by their time in the military. The reason I raise that is that is that if we do not get it right we will simply be unable to meet the challenge of those who are genuinely poorly and unwell because of what the nation asked them to do. I am committed to getting those people the help they deserve.

[Bob Stewart]

I support exactly what my good Friend the Minister is saying. I am backed up by other Members here, such as my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell (James Sunderland). The vast majority of members of the armed forces go through their service and do not have a problem at the end of it—that is absolutely true; but please, Minister, give more resources to PTSD Resolution, because it deserves them.

[Johnny Mercer]

I thank my hon. Friend, who knows the impression he left on me in my formative journey into this place. I think that I am speaking for him at a dinner tonight, where we can take the matter further. I shall come on to the question of funds for specific charities in a minute.

[Dr Murrison]

The Minister is of course right that service in the armed forces is positive, generally speaking, in terms of mental health, and veterans probably have better mental health than a non-serving cohort would. However, does he agree that that slightly misses the point, because if PTSD is service-attributable, then in accordance with the military covenant and “no disadvantage” we have an obligation to do what we can to resolve any problems that may have been caused as a result of service? I pointed that out in my report, “Fighting Fit” about 10 years ago.

[Johnny Mercer]

My right hon. Friend is absolutely right to point out that it is no good sitting down with the widow of somebody who has taken their own life, or with their family, and saying, “Actually, statistically, we are in a pretty good place in this country when it comes to suicide.” The reality when it comes to figures and so on is that we are—the rate of suicide in the service community is eight in 100,000; in the civilian equivalent cohort it is 32 in 100,000. People who have served in the military are less likely to take their own life. However, he is absolutely right that each one of these suicides is a tragedy not only for the individual and their family, but for us as an institution, because we owe this unique debt of gratitude towards those who serve.[Official Report, 16 March 2020, Vol. 673, c. 6MC.]

We are beginning to really shift the debate. We have invested a lot of early money in data. We started from a very low point when it came to veterans’ data and data on suicide. We have put money into a cohort study, looking at 16,000 people from the beginning of the Iraq process through to where they are now. Clearly, most of them are civilians, but we are watching what happens in their lives, the cause of death if they die and so on. We are marrying that with an exercise in the MOD, going over the records of every individual who served who has died since 1991—almost three quarters of a million people —to have a look at the cause of death and the incidence rates. We have just signed the contract to give some money to the University of Manchester to look at cases in which veterans take their lives, to undertake a comprehensive study of the events in their life in the 12 months leading up to that, to answer the question whether we could or should have done anything more to intervene. I totally accept that the Government have not started from a strong start point when it comes to data around suicide and what we have done on it, but I want to make clear this morning that that is changing.

When it comes to this strategic shift in healthcare provision for our service people, I start by paying tribute to the service charities. They have done an amazing job—there are no two ways about that. When Combat Stress started, and throughout the period where mental health really was a Cinderella service—we talk now about winning that battle on the stigma of mental health, but 30 years ago that was not the case—Combat Stress held a candle for this stuff and was the only port in a storm. It has done an incredible job over the years.

However, for a long time Combat Stress and others have talked about the increasing presentation and understanding of mental health versus a decline in giving from the public. That has presented a unique challenge about what we do now. I am very clear, as is the Prime Minister, that that basic underlying mental health provision is owed to those people by this country and the NHS must step forward to provide that. With the problems with Combat Stress that have come to light recently, which everybody knows about, I have brought forward a third service to try to fill the mental health provision gap for our veterans. We have the complex treatment service, which was introduced last year and has been very successful, and we have the TIL—transition, intervention and liaison—service to speed up access to talking therapies and so on, but there is a requirement for a high-intensity service to look after some of our most poorly people on the NHS. I have brought that commissioning forward. The bidding process is going through now and in April I will be launching that. We will have those three services—CTS, the high-intensity service and TILS. That will be the framework through which this Government will see through their commitment to veterans on mental health.

The NHS requires people to deliver those services, and that is where the charities are absolutely critical. They have bid into the services and they are indeed running CTS and TILS in other parts of the country. We have had a lot of bids for high-intensity service. Those charities are going to go through a change as they fit in around this framework and leadership, which they have asked us for for a long time. The challenge then is to make sure that every single veteran and every service member in this country when they leave service knows about the programme of mental health care, so that they cannot honestly look me in the eye and say to me, “I did not know where to turn.” That is the challenge I am absolutely determined to meet. I will come on to talk about funding for that at the moment.

[Jamie Stone]

I accept the generous intent of the Minister’s remarks, and I thank him for that. It is worth making the point in passing that, if we could get this right and if the general public could see us getting it right, that in turn would surely help recruitment to our armed forces—something that is a real problem for all three services.

[Johnny Mercer]

The hon. Gentleman makes a good point. I come back to the point I made earlier: when this goes wrong, when we do not get this right, it is not only a tragedy for the individual and their families, but a tragedy for us as an institution if people come and give the best years of their lives, and we do not then have the follow-on care and so on that so many of them need.

I am confident that when we launch this service in April, it will provide the framework and the leadership that will bring in all the charities and all the brilliant little groups such as PTSD Resolution and others. They will fit in around this framework and deliver parts of the course. That is critical for the charities, because they will be able to focus on some things and not on others, but cognisant of the fact that that need is being met. There will be more long-term sustainability and contracts that they can enter into with the NHS that will give them financial stability. I am confident in 12 or 18 months’ time we will have a world-class offering for mental health for our veterans in this country.

When it comes to money, the Prime Minister is absolutely clear that we will provide the resources required to meet the demand. This healthcare model is the future of veterans’ care in this country. As he came into office, we saw a fundamental shift—this from someone who has irritated colleagues in this place over many years on this subject—towards this nation, particularly this place, being the ultimate guarantor of services for those who have served. It is not always the deliverer, but it is the guarantor.

Finally, we are going to get there with the programme. I am speaking at King’s College about it tomorrow and the formal launch is in April. I have a huge job of work to do to ensure that everybody in this country understands what it is, and I look forward to that challenge, but it is a team effort. This is not my mental healthcare plan. There are people who have done some amazing stuff in this field. All I am doing is bringing it together and providing that leadership, because that good stuff is there already. I genuinely think we are going to see a fundamental change in the next 12 to 18 months.

[James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con)]

I thank the Minister for his comments and remarks—

[James Sunderland]

Thank you, Mr Stringer, and apologies for that. I was going to apologise for being late and not being here. I was at the Procedure Committee. My humble apologies. I know we are short of time, but I want to clarify with the Minister that there are an estimated 2.3 million veterans in the country at the moment and we have a fantastic framework already across the UK, through the armed forces champions and also through the fantastic civil military partnership boards. The framework is already there, but there is a bit of fine-tuning that we need to get this put into statute and therefore give the veterans the help they need.

[Johnny Mercer]

My hon. Friend is absolutely right that there are some areas in this country where mental health care works extremely well, and models of care that should be promulgated further and rolled out nationwide. The challenge is that we have perpetually judged ourselves by what we are putting into the machine in terms of money and organisation. We have an event in London and we say, “We are providing this for veterans’ mental health.”

The key for me is that the experience of being a veteran in this country in 2020 should be equalised across the country. Plymouth, where I come from, is a military city, so there are some wonderful relationships, and generally speaking someone’s chances of accessing good mental health care are pretty good, but that is not the same all over the country. That is why this kind of leadership in the centralised framework is so important. It is going to shift the dial on what we can present.

In closing, I come back to my initial remark: the vast majority of people leave genuinely enhanced by their service. If we do not have that conversation, my concern is that we will never meet the demand, because it is unrealistically inflated. No one wants to look after these people more than I do, or than anybody else here in this Chamber does, but we must have an honest conversation about it. I believe this structure will enable us to do that, and that we will have a very good service in the years ahead.

Question put and agreed to.

Draft Armed Forces Act (Continuation) Order 2020

Johnny Mercer Excerpts

Monday 9th March 2020 General Committees

[The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Johnny Mercer)]

I beg to move,

That the Committee has considered the draft Armed Forces Act (Continuation) Order 2020.

What a pleasure it is to serve under your chairmanship, Sir David. This is my first Delegated Legislation Committee as a Minister, and I am immensely excited to be here. I think we have a lot of time—something like two hours—so I will go through the legislation.

We have a small, but crucial piece of parliamentary business to conduct: our annual consideration of the legislation governing the armed forces, the Armed Forces Act 2006. Before I turn directly to the annual continuation of the 2006 Act, let us not forget that our armed forces are without a doubt one of this country’s foremost and precious institutions, being held in the highest regard throughout the world as a benchmark of military excellence to which other nations aspire. Let us never forget the men and women of the armed forces who serve and have served us so well, whether at home or further afield.

This nation owes much to our armed forces and the admirable qualities they espouse: bravery, discipline, professionalism, unflinching and steadfast loyalty to duty and a strong moral compass to do all that we ask of them. Those noble qualities and adherence to duty are all too frequently tested in the most challenging and varied of environments and circumstances. Our servicemen and women therefore deserve our due respect for the manner in which they continue to maintain such high standards and professionalism.

We owe a huge debt of gratitude to our armed forces, who perform exceptional feats to protect this country in incredibly difficult circumstances. To support them, we will bring forward legislation to deal with vexatious claims. We will further strengthen the basis of the armed forces covenant, because we are absolutely committed to supporting all in our armed forces community.

Today, we busy ourselves with the continuation of the armed forces themselves. The order will keep in force the Armed Forces Act 2006 for a further year, to the end of 11 May 2021. As I will explain, that reflects the constitutional requirement under the Bill of Rights 1688 that a standing army, and by extension the Royal Navy and the Royal Air Force, may not be maintained without the consent of Parliament.

Let us not forget that the armed forces cannot exist without the annual consent of Parliament. This is an opportunity for us, in this Committee, to record our thanks by permitting the armed forces to continue for another year. Yearly renewal is rooted in the Bill of Rights. That historical context forms the basis for why the legislation, which provides for the armed forces to exist as disciplined bodies, is renewed by Parliament every year.

None the less, it is important that I explain the legislation that governs the renewal. Every five years, renewal is by an Armed Forces Act of Parliament. The most recent was in 2016. There must be another before the end of 2021. Between each five-yearly Act, annual renewal is by Order in Council. The draft order we are considering is such an order. The Armed Forces Act 2016 provides for the continuation in force of the 2006 Act until the end of 11 May 2017 and for further renewal thereafter by Order in Council for up to a year at a time, but not beyond 2021.

If the Armed Forces Act 2006 is not renewed by Order in Council before 11 May 2020, it will automatically expire. If the 2006 Act expires, the legislation that governs the armed forces and the provision necessary for their maintenance as disciplined bodies would cease to exist. That would have serious repercussions, as the 2006 Act sets out nearly all the provisions for the existence of a system for the armed forces of command, justice and, above all, discipline. It creates offences and provides for the investigation of alleged offences, the arrest, holding in custody and charging of individuals accused of committing an offence, and for them to be dealt with summarily by their commanding officer or tried in the court martial. Offences under the 2006 Act include any criminal offence under the law of England and Wales, and those that are peculiar to service, such as misconduct towards a superior officer and disobedience of lawful commands.

If the 2006 Act were to expire, the duty of members of the armed forces to obey lawful commands, and the powers and procedures under which that duty is enforced, would no longer have effect. Commanding officers and the court martial would have no powers of punishment for failure to obey a lawful command or other disciplinary or criminal misconduct. Members of the armed forces would still owe allegiance to Her Majesty, but Parliament would have removed the power of enforcement. After all, service personnel do not have contracts of employment, and so have no duties as employees. Their obligation is essentially a duty to obey lawful commands. The 2006 Act also provides for other important matters for the armed forces, such as their enlistment, pay and redress of complaints.

The continuation of the 2006 Act is essential for the maintenance of discipline wherever service personnel are serving in the world. Discipline in every sense is fundamental and underpins the existence of our armed forces and their success, whether at home, supporting emergency services and local communities, as demonstrated during the recent flooding in Yorkshire and other parts of the country; protecting Britain’s fishing fleet and industry—her waters, as well as her shores—actively safeguarding the world’s main waterways and escorting ships to deter the scourge of modern piracy; playing their part to counter terrorism or to combat drug smuggling and people trafficking; distributing vital humanitarian aid; continuing the war on terror by assisting and building capacity with partner nations to defeat the likes of Daesh in Iraq or Syria and Boko Haram in Nigeria; or maintaining our presence in the Baltic and northern Europe to strengthen our Euro-Atlantic security.

In short, we owe the brave men and women of our armed forces a sound legal basis for them to continue to afford us their vital protection. I hope that hon. Members will support the draft order. I am grateful to colleagues for their support.

--- Later in debate ---

[Johnny Mercer]

If it is not out of order to answer the points in reverse, I will do so. Some really interesting points have been made, which I will speak to in turn.

First, the hon. Member for West Dunbartonshire will know that I am as much of a cheerleader for civilian oversight of the military as he is. In any functioning democracy, it is important for that to be enforced, as Obama did in 2012 when I was serving in Afghanistan: he re-emphasised the control of civilian oversight over the military, which is pivotal to everything we do. It will not be news to the hon. Gentleman that I am not a huge fan of having some sort of union within the armed forces. That is not because I do not believe in the rights of individuals who serve; we work very hard to try to understand how to improve their lives and the offer that we make them. However, I think serving is fundamentally different, but I am always open to a conversation about these things. A modern armed forces should reflect a modern Britain.

I have yet to meet the hon. Member for Rhondda about traumatic brain injury, for which I apologise; I confirm that we will be meeting within the next couple of weeks. It is an important subject, and I pay tribute to him for his work in bringing it to people’s attention.

On vexatious claims, the line is very clear: if someone commits a criminal offence in uniform, they will be prosecuted. Nobody will want to prosecute them more than I will, as the Minister for Defence People who has been charged with ending the ridiculous process of vexatious claims. The inability to hold ourselves to account in every battlefield that we have faced over the past 15, 20 or 50 years has led to a mass market of claims and investigations into people who, most of the time, have done absolutely nothing wrong except for, in the eyes of prosecutors, serving their country. The Government have made it absolutely clear that we will put an end to the industry of claims.

I can confirm that, on 18 March, I will present a Bill that fulfils the Prime Minister’s manifesto commitment to act within 100 days. It is designed to tackle the vexatious nature of the claims system that has sprung up in recent years and continues to blight the lives of some of our most special people, but there will never be a blank cheque or a diminution of standards in the way the UK military behave on operations, or in the opportunities to hold the Government to account. It is simply a question of narrowing the aperture through which human rights lawyers, who go on to commit fraud, exploit the situation and build business empires off the back of operations that the British Army and military conduct. The Bill will be presented on 18 March, and I look forward to it.

To someone who has never done this before, it seems odd that we just sit here and read out a bit of paper, and then the armed forces continue for another year. We anticipate a Bill later this year. The Government have made it clear that some reforms need to take place within the armed forces, and we have also talked about how we will legislate on the armed forces covenant so that no person in this country can be disadvantaged because of their military service. That will be part of the Bill, and I anticipate its being introduced later this year.

I will address in turn the comments of the hon. Member for Merthyr Tydfil and Rhymney. Mali is another operation that the UK military look forward to taking part in in our global fight to empower nations in that part of the world to defeat terrorism and keep this country safe. There will be plenty of opportunities to engage with and debate, both in public and in the House, the UK’s foreign policy, but I will not go into further detail at the moment, for obvious reasons.

On the number of people who serve, we in this country have to get away from a numbers argument. As a Minister, I will always advocate more people coming to serve, because it is the best thing that young people can do. The thing that defines the military, however, is not the number of people or the proportion of GDP we spend on it, but whether it can meet the threat that we are up against in defending this nation and the way of life that we are so lucky to enjoy. As war becomes more automated, as we develop unmanned vehicles and as our ability to keep people safe and defend this nation continues to improve, it will inevitably lead to a requirement for fewer personnel in modern warfare.

I can assure hon. Members that, on this watch and under this Government, our military’s capabilities will never decrease, but only continue to improve. Depending on how many people we need to do that, our military will be manned accordingly. There was no intention to drop the 82,000 target from the manifesto. We just need to get away from talking about the strength of our military purely in numbers of personnel.

Retention is a huge challenge, possibly our biggest at the moment. We are doing much better on recruitment; we have met our targets two months early for this year through to April, which is a significant achievement by the team, to whom I pay tribute. That is an extraordinary achievement in a time of peace. There is undoubtedly a challenge in retention. The Secretary of State, the Prime Minister and I have made it clear that we will not tolerate any more denuding of the offer to people who are serving, including on pay, welfare, accommodation and families. We face a challenge, but we are well aware that retention is an issue and are working hard on it every day.

The future accommodation model is a big opportunity for those in the military to own their own home earlier and have a degree of independence that people serving 20 years ago did not want. We are currently running a pilot that has been extremely popular where it has been available. We have more work to do to communicate what FAM is and what it means for families.

At the moment, there is a narrative about veterans and we are up against the clock to get the legislation through, but a family member is as important as any other person in the defence family. The armed forces covenant says clearly that no servicemen or their families should be disadvantaged by their military service, and the Government are absolutely committed to following through on that.

I hope that I have answered the questions that were raised. I anticipate and look forward to an armed forces Bill later this year. We have a lot of work to do, but I encourage hon. Members to look at 18 March as a seminal moment when we can finally start to put an end to the ridiculous process of vexatious claims, and build on everything else that we are doing.

Question put and agreed to.

Service Justice System

Johnny Mercer Excerpts

Thursday 27th February 2020 Written Statements

[The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Johnny Mercer)]

Today the Ministry of Defence is publishing the reports of the service justice system review and its response to them, copies of which will be placed in the Library of the House. The service justice system review was conducted by His Honour Shaun Lyons, a retired Crown court judge, who was supported on policing matters by the former chief constable for Merseyside, Sir Jon Murphy and by former detective superintendent Mark Guinness on domestic bbuse, child abuse and victims and witnesses.

The review submitted three reports, part one on the need for the SJS and an overview of the system in March 2018 and a separate report on service policing, followed by part two on how the system can be improved in March 2019. In part two, the review made a total of 60 recommendations with the aim of improving the SJS.

The Ministry of Defence welcomes the reports and will be considering the recommendations in detail, including those that will require legislation for possible inclusion in the Armed Forces Bill.

[HCWS131]

Oral Answers to Questions

Johnny Mercer Excerpts

Thursday 27th February 2020 Commons Chamber

[Darren Henry (Broxtowe) (Con)]

21. What steps the Office for Veterans’ Affairs is taking to support veterans to gain employment in the public sector.

[The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Johnny Mercer)]

Veterans offer a vast range of skills and talent to employers, and we want to see more of them working throughout the economy. We are making it easier for them to join the civil service, introducing a national insurance break for their employers, and investing £5 million in Jobcentre Plus armed forces champions.

[Chris Elmore]

It is concerning that 18% of UK businesses surveyed said that they would be unlikely to take on former armed forces personnel because of negative perceptions of those who had served in the forces. Both the Minister and I know that the armed forces actually provide skills for life that can be brought into different sectors. I warmly welcome the decision by the Cabinet Office to guarantee interviews to former armed forces personnel if they meet essential criteria, which is already being done in my Bridgend County Borough Council area. What more can the Minister do—including making representations to the Chancellor of the Duchy of Lancaster—to ensure that the scheme is implemented across Government?

[Johnny Mercer]

The whole concept of the Office for Veterans’ Affairs is about making experience of being a veteran equal across the country. We are introducing the scheme that the hon. Member mentions later in the year, and we are also introducing legislation to ensure that the armed forces covenant is implemented correctly throughout the country, so that no veteran suffers disadvantage because of his or her service. The Prime Minister has shifted the dial in respect of what it means to be an armed forces veteran in this country, and I am determined to make this the best place on earth in which to be one.

[Darren Henry]

Does my hon. Friend agree that the ex-service personnel already working in the civil service bring invaluable skills and experience learned from the armed forces, and that guaranteeing veterans interviews for civil service jobs will boost the employment prospects of residents of Broxtowe and improve the civil service?

[Johnny Mercer]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend, and thank him for his question. It is clear that in this country we are moving away from the idea that we should give veterans a job just to keep them busy, and are recognising the incredible skills and attributes that they bring to any job in society following 10 or 15 years of what has been pretty hard combat over the last few years. I pay tribute to those in the civil service, and to those who lead the way so that others can come through behind them.

[Stephanie Peacock (Barnsley East) (Lab)]

Let me begin by saying that, with permission, my hon. Friend the Member for City of Chester (Christian Matheson) and I will be leaving this Question Time early to take part in an armed forces parliamentary scheme visit. I am sure the House will understand that no discourtesy is intended.

The Forces in Mind Trust reports that veterans experience a postcode lottery when looking for work, and fewer than half of those in the north say that it was easy to find employment. Is the Minister assured that support for veterans is being sent to where it is needed most in order to tackle that regional inequality?

[Johnny Mercer]

Regional inequality is a key factor in what the Office for Veterans’ Affairs is trying to do. Today we have the latest figures from the career transition partnership, and we have more people going into work and education than ever before. In fact, people are now more likely to be in employment if they are a veteran, but we are not complacent about that in any way. There is no reason why anybody coming out of the military cannot go into a job, which is the single biggest transformative factor in improving their life chances.

[Peter Gibson (Darlington) (Con)]

5. What plans he has to relocate public bodies out of the south-east.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Philip Hollobone (Kettering) (Con)]

6. How many staff of the Office for Veterans’ Affairs are (a) veterans and (b) non-veterans.

[The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Johnny Mercer)]

The Office for Veterans’ Affairs is staffed by civil servants, two of whom, including the director, are veterans. I myself am a veteran, and I have seen at first hand the need to support our veterans. The OVA is also setting up a veterans’ advisory board, which includes veterans and representatives from academia, business and the charity sector.

[Mr Hollobone]

My hon. and gallant Friend the Minister will recognise that veterans represent the very best of selfless service to our country, and no one understands veterans’ needs better than veterans themselves, so what plans does he have to increase the number of veterans, including disabled veterans, in his Department?

[Johnny Mercer]

People come and work in the Office for Veterans’ Affairs based purely on what they can add to the organisation. A number of veterans are working there at the moment. We are still conducting a recruitment process for certain roles, but it is an embryonic organisation that is finding its way through Government, and I look forward to giving my hon. Friend an update in writing later in the year.

[James Sunderland (Bracknell) (Con)]

8. What steps the Office for Veterans’ Affairs is taking to ensure that veterans can access mental health support.

[Johnny Mercer]

The Government are providing the best mental health support for veterans, spending £10.2 million a year on veterans’ mental health services through the transition intervention and liaison service and the complex treatment service.

[James Sunderland]

I thank the Minister for his answer. May I ask him how the Government are helping veterans to transition back into civilian life? Will he also tell the House about any new initiatives in the pipeline?

[Johnny Mercer]

I thank my hon. Friend for his question and pay tribute to his service. Veterans’ mental health care in this country is changing fundamentally, and the nation is finally realising its inherent responsibility to those who have served. We are rolling out a comprehensive NHS treatment programme through the complex treatment service and the transition, intervention and liaison service, which is the high-intensity service. Beyond that, there will be space for every brilliant third sector organisation to contribute. I am determined that this country will have the world’s best mental health care for veterans, and I look forward to updating my hon. Friend in due course.

[Martin Docherty-Hughes (West Dunbartonshire) (SNP)]

I am sure that the Minister will recognise that veterans’ mental health also carries on into retirement. Does he agree that it is time to exempt the war disablement pension for veterans who access it in order to improve their income, opportunities and mental health in the long term?

[Johnny Mercer]

Pensions are a complex area that we are constantly examining. Several schemes over the years have advantaged certain groups and disadvantaged others. I am having continual conversations to ensure that the armed forces covenant means something in this country, that those who have served have a special place in this nation’s heart, and that we look after people in the way that they deserve.

[Mr Richard Bacon (South Norfolk) (Con)]

Further to the question from my hon. Friend the Member for Bracknell (James Sunderland), I have an excellent idea that should be in the pipeline. The single biggest barrier to some veterans improving their mental health is getting and keeping a place to live because, disgracefully, we have some veterans who are homeless. Will my hon. Friend and the Cabinet Office, together with the Ministry of Defence, the Department for Work and Pensions and, indeed, the Ministry of Justice, consider supporting a pilot project to turbocharge the excellent work already being done by the Community Self Build Agency in this area?

[Johnny Mercer]

It will be of no surprise that I am a huge fan of the CSBA, which does incredible work in my Plymouth constituency. We must be careful about this idea of homeless veterans. In my experience of extensive studies, the situation is not quite as it is represented in the media, but one is one too many. Along with the rough sleeping initiative that is being announced today, I am determined to zero in on the issue. No veterans should be sleeping rough on this country’s streets, and we are determined to get there.

[Stuart Anderson (Wolverhampton South West) (Con)]

I am aware that suicide is normally lower among veterans than among their civilian cohorts. However, I have noticed that that has changed in the past six months, as the Minister will be aware, with my old platoon commander and several other people I served with having committed suicide. What is the Minister doing to support veterans in this area?

[Johnny Mercer]

I thank my hon. Friend for his service. Suicide is an immensely complex area, and I work on it every single day. He is right that, traditionally, someone is less likely to take their life if they have served in the military, but we are experiencing a cluster of events, and we are working every day to understand why they are happening. I meet with the families of those who have been through this journey, and we are determined to ensure that we have done everything possible in every situation. Each one is a tragedy not only for the family and the individual, but for the military as an institution. I assure my hon. Friend that we are spending every waking moment trying to deal with this current series of events.

[Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)]

10. Whether the Government plan to grant EU nationals living in the UK the right to vote in general elections.

--- Later in debate ---

[Stuart Anderson (Wolverhampton South West) (Con)]

Can my hon. Friend tell me what he is doing at the moment about the current Combat Stress situation?

[The Minister for Defence People and Veterans (Johnny Mercer)]

I pay tribute to Combat Stress for the immense work it has done over many years for those who suffer with mental health challenges when they return from operations. The situation is difficult. There is no doubt that the model of healthcare for our veterans is fundamentally changing, to a realisation of the responsibility that the NHS has towards those who serve. Within that model of care, there is a role for everybody. As we undergo that transition, services are available and their uptake is being monitoring every single day.

[Rosie Duffield (Canterbury) (Lab)]

T1. Apologies, Mr Speaker, for not being in my place earlier.Since 2017, and under successive Tory Governments, civil service leaks have apparently become commonplace. Have the Government carried out an assessment of why so many civil servants now seem to believe that it is in the public interest to go behind the backs of Ministers and leak information?

[Sir Bernard Jenkin (Harwich and North Essex) (Con)]

I declare an interest as a vice-president of Combat Stress. May I point out that Combat Stress is facing a crisis because the Government are withdrawing funding for the 1,200 or so veterans who use its services every year? There is now an instance of a veteran taking their own life because they were refused treatment by Combat Stress and referred back to their GP. This is a very serious situation. Will my hon. Friend please ensure that Combat Stress gets the funding it needs to deliver the care to the veterans it looks after?

[Johnny Mercer]

I pay tribute to my hon. Friend and his work with Combat Stress. The reality is that Combat Stress is facing challenges at this time, and not exclusively because of issues with Government contracts. These challenges are reflected across the third sector because mental health care is changing. We must always be driven by the evidence about what works when it comes to accessing and treating more and more people, as the awareness of mental health goes up. I have met Combat Stress a number of times, and I have met my hon. Friend to discuss this issue. I am happy to continue meeting to find a solution to this very difficult problem, the answer to which is not always throwing money at it and hoping that it gets better.

[Lloyd Russell-Moyle (Brighton, Kemptown) (Lab/Co-op)]

In response to my earlier question, the Minister of State, Cabinet Office, said that no other European country grants non-citizens voting rights. I think that might have been slightly erroneous. Portugal grants Brazilians who meet a certain threshold voting rights at the national level, and there is a similar arrangement in Scandinavian countries through the Nordic Passport Union. Will the Minister think again about our out-of-place system, whereby people who may have lived here for 20-odd years, people who pay tax here and even people who may have been born here, are not able to vote here? At least, let us open the conversation.

--- Later in debate ---

[Jo Gideon (Stoke-on-Trent Central) (Con)]

I welcome the veterans interview guarantee, but I have spoken to veterans in Stoke-on-Trent Central, where we have quite a number, and sometimes the issue relates to pre-employment in that they need help to prepare for being ready for an interview. Will the Minister give some idea of whether we can support them on that?

[Johnny Mercer]

Preparing those who have served for civilian life is a huge part of what we do. We put a lot of money into the Career Transition Partnership. Its statistics out today show that veterans have an 86% employment rate, and that continues to rise year on year. They have a higher employment rate than the civilian cohort. We are not resting on our laurels. We will continue to do all we can in the “pre” phase before individuals leave service to make sure that they have the best possible opportunity to make the most of their skills when they rejoin civilian life.