Academies Bill [Lords]

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 26th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Ed Balls]

If the hon. Gentleman looks at the facts over the past decade, he will see that of the 20 local authorities that had the biggest increase in results, half were in the poorest 10% of boroughs in the country, all of which were in London. The London Challenge programme and our academies focused on tackling disadvantage. Of course there is a long legacy of social division and inequality in our education system. We were addressing it; the Government are going to re-entrench it. That is the difference.

Let us look at the amendments that—[Interruption.] The Secretary of State, who chose not to participate in this Third Reading debate—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Let me say that we have 15 minutes left to complete our consideration of Third Reading. We do not have enough time to go back to 1931 and Ramsay MacDonald.

[Ed Balls]

It would have been better if the Secretary of State had contributed to this debate, given that it was so truncated. The only thing that I will say, Mr Speaker, is that in 1931, Ramsay MacDonald cut public spending to try to get us out of a recession. That caused a depression, and I am afraid that he ended up going into a coalition with the Conservatives. In that debate the Liberal Democrats opposed the cuts that were being made; unfortunately, this time they are propping up the coalition. However, I did not raise the issue of Ramsay MacDonald, Mr Speaker, so I will move on.

Let me look at the amendments tabled that have been rejected. First—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Let me gently say to the shadow Secretary of State—this is a point often not fully comprehended on either side of the House—that contributions to Third Reading debates have to be on the remaining content of the Bill, and must not focus on matters that have been excluded from it. But I know that the right hon. Gentleman will reorient his remarks readily.

[Ed Balls]

In that case, Mr Speaker, I will make no reference to the fact that a requirement that the admissions code should attach to such schools was excluded from the Bill, nor will I refer to the fact that parental consultation could have been strengthened, but that that was ignored.

Let me come to the substance of the Bill as we find it. The thing that worries me most is this—

Academies Bill [Lords]

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 19th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)]

Will the right hon. Gentleman allow me to correct two things that he said? The first relates to Burlington Danes, which has traditionally been a very good school. It got into special measures, and became an academy, but did not improve. It has now improved with a new, second, head. Will he accept that often it is not being an academy that makes the difference, but having a good head teacher and a good ethos in the school?

I come to the second point on which I hope the right hon. Gentleman will allow me to correct him. We have two outstanding schools with a very deprived intake in my constituency. Both have decided not to become academies. Privately, the schools’ governors have said to me that they believe that special educational needs children and non-teaching staff would be discriminated against if the schools became academies, because they have seen that happen in other academies. So will the Secretary of State not be quite so arrogant in pushing academies on every level?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. From now on, interventions need to get a bit shorter. The debate is very heavily subscribed, and interventions should be brief.

[Michael Gove]

On the second point made by the hon. Member for Hammersmith (Mr Slaughter), the Bill is permissive. If head teachers do not wish to go down the academy route, that is a matter for them. I trust head teachers, unlike the previous Government who told head teachers what was right for them. We believe in professional autonomy. On the first point, I agree. I agree that the current head teacher at Burlington Danes, Ms Sally Coates, is fantastic; that is why she supports the legislation, and why she appeared with me in public to say that more schools should embrace the academy status that allowed her to do so much for the disadvantaged children whom the hon. Gentleman represents, and who are our first care.

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[Mr Ellwood]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. My right hon. Friend has listed a whole series of aspects of the amendment that show it contains many untruths. Would it be in order for the Opposition to be given the opportunity to walk away, rewrite it and come back with an amendment that might be worthy of the House?

[Mr Speaker]

First, that is an utterly specious point of order. Secondly, it is a waste of time.

[Michael Gove]

It is, of course, a point of debate, and I look forward to hearing the shadow Secretary of State shortly.

The reasoned amendment argues that we are not building on the success of the academies programme, but the Bill fulfils it. It makes it easier for failing schools to be placed in the hands of great sponsors to turn them round, for good schools to take faltering schools under their wing and for all children from disadvantaged backgrounds to benefit from academy status.

I refer those who argue that we are failing children with special educational needs to the remarks of Lord Adonis in the upper House when the Bill was making progress there. He said:

“On the contrary, in crucial areas of special educational needs, particularly EBD”—

emotional and behavioural difficulties—

“the dynamic innovation…that academies can bring could lead to significant improvements…in ways that enhance the overall quality of the state education system.”—[Official Report, House of Lords, 23 June 2010; Vol. 719, c. 1399.]

The expansion of the academies programme will drive that improvement in state education. I know that some Opposition Members say, “Pause, gie canny, slow down, hesitate”, but that is the argument of the conservative throughout the ages when confronted with the radicalism that says we need to do better for our children. We cannot afford to wait. We cannot afford Labour’s failed approach any more, with teachers directed from the centre, regulations stifling innovation and our country falling behind other nations. We need reform and we need it now. We need the Bill.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I have selected the reasoned amendment in the name of the Leader of the Opposition.

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[Mr Stuart]

The right hon. Gentleman is seeking to be a leader, but he seeks leadership in the luddite tendency. He has always opposed reform: he opposed it from the Back Benches when he first came into Parliament, and he continues to oppose reform that will raise standards.

To return to the subject of Building Schools for the Future, my right hon. Friend the Secretary of State was absolutely right to intervene. He took a brave decision to intervene on a programme that is wasteful and that does not lead to results in our schools. We will now have a system that prioritises need, not political fixes, and that ensures that the money goes on school buildings—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Let me just say to the hon. Gentleman that even though he is the elected Chair of the Select Committee on Education, he must be economical in his interventions.

[Ed Balls]

The former Chair of the Select Committee on Children, Schools and Families and I did not always see eye to eye, but he always had respect on both sides of the House for his independence. The hon. Member for Beverley and Holderness (Mr Stuart) got some respect yesterday for saying that the Bill was being railroaded through Parliament, but he loses it for that ridiculous, partisan and stooge-like performance. Maybe he should call some witnesses and hear some evidence before he decides to write his Select Committee’s report—unless it is being written for him by Conservative Front Benchers. His credibility is very substantially undermined.

[Mr Graham Stuart]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. The shadow Secretary of State may be getting excited, but I ask him whether he might withdraw that remark, which brought into question the independence of a Select Committee.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Frankly, that is not a point of order, but a point of debate. I have known the hon. Gentleman for a number of years, and I know that he will not want to become an unduly sensitive flower. That would be unwise.

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[Ed Balls]

The hon. Gentleman has obviously done a good job of whipping some colleagues, but it is a pity that he did not speak to the Liberal Democrat Education Association, which has condemned the very Bill that he is being asked to vote for today. We must wait and see whether the hon. Gentleman signs the association’s petition—I do not know whether he is thinking about leadership elections to come.

My point is that visits to metropolitan areas and apologies are not enough. That is not what people want. Parents, teachers and children do not want the Secretary of State to say sorry; they want him to change his mind, to throw out this Bill and to let them build the new schools that they were promised. The people I spoke to today also said to me, “Can’t you get an answer from the Secretary of State?” I wrote to him two weeks ago to ask whether the money was being diverted away from Building Schools for the Future to fund the proposals in this Bill, but I have had no reply so far. I am going to ask him the question again, because a lot of taxpayers’ money rides on the answer. During the weekend before he announced the cancellation of Building Schools for the Future, did he at any point receive written or oral advice from departmental officials or from Partnerships for Schools urging him not to publish a list of schools until after he had consulted local authorities to ensure that his criteria were sound and that his facts were right? I would be very happy to take an intervention from him. Would he like to answer the question? No.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. We do not have forced interventions.

[Ed Balls]

After two weeks of waiting for an answer, my expectations were not very high.

Let me try another question. Is it not the case that the Secretary of State was also advised of the risk of legal challenges from private contractors, and did he not personally decide to ignore that advice? He can set the record straight now, or we can keep on asking these questions. People want to know the answers. This is about the cack-handed way in which he did this, and about whether there will be legal challenges from the authorities and contractors who will have been left out of pocket by hundreds of millions of pounds as a result of his decision.

[Mr David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab)]

Will my right hon. Friend also comment on the potential for challenges from some of the tens of thousands of workers who will be affected by this decision? They do not know whether they are going to be made redundant, or what their terms and conditions will be. Surely there is a legal imperative for them to be consulted properly, but that consultation will take place while most of them are on their summer holidays.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The debate is starting to broaden somewhat. I know that the right hon. Gentleman will want to focus his reply in a way that relates to the Bill.

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[Pauline Latham (Mid Derbyshire) (Con)]

Would you say that the shadow Secretary of State is going back 20 years and coming back with the same arguments and fears that the Labour party put out about grant-maintained schools, when there was absolutely nothing wrong with them? They did a very good job for schools, raised standards and raised attainment for many pupils. They did a really good job, but, like then, you are just coming back and trying to bully people into saying that the Bill will not work and should not go ahead.

[Mr Speaker]

May I gently say that I am not coming back to bully anyone? I have never done that before and I would not do it in future. I know that Members will not want to use the word “you” again.

[Ed Balls]

The hon. Lady is absolutely right that we have been here before. We have had freedoms and resources given to higher-performing schools in more affluent areas, and we all know what resulted from it. The academies policy that we introduced was the exact opposite of that, but our policy is being undermined.

The reality is that this Bill gives extra resources to higher-performing schools in more affluent areas while at the same time removing any obligation for consultation with parents, local authorities or external sponsors. Indeed, the requirement for a sponsor is removed entirely under this legislation. We have talked about consultation, but the fact is that the only consultation any school need have about how it proceeds and how it teaches its curriculum is with the Secretary of State. The role of the local authority is entirely removed. This is the biggest centralisation in education policy in the post-war period.

Although the Bill makes clear that the academies will be accountable to the Secretary of State, it is interesting to note that the model funding agreement circulated by the Government contains no requirement for teachers to have qualified-teacher status. It also contains no requirement for co-operation in regard to behaviour and exclusion: schools can go their own way and exclude at will. There will be no independent appeals panels for excluded children, which will hit children with special needs disproportionately. There is no requirement for a named member of staff to be responsible for children in care. There is no requirement for careers education. There is no requirement for academies to observe nutritional standards, or to provide sex and relationship education. We will address all those issues in our amendments, and I urge Members to vote for them so that we can put the Bill on to the straight and narrow.

Oral Answers to Questions

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 12th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Both the Secretary of State and the shadow Secretary of State have had their say, and I know that we will now want to return to Ilkley and Bingley.

[Ed Balls]

The right hon. Gentleman cannot give a straight answer to a straight question. The people of Bingley and Ilkley will not be satisfied by that answer, and nor are we. Interestingly, his letter today says very clearly that his fifth list has been validated by local authorities—presumably a clear admission that the information should have been validated before the list was published in the first place, including by Bradford authority, in which the schools of Bingley and Ilkley are situated.

Let me ask the right hon. Gentleman another straight question. Is it not the case that he was advised of the risk of legal challenge from private contractors, but that he personally decided to ignore that advice and take that risk with taxpayers’ money? That is a very simple question. We all know that he is on shaky ground, and that he is fast losing the confidence of pupils, parents and teachers. If he had any sense, he would end this shambles, withdraw these error-strewn lists, and let our communities have new schools.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I want to help the House. I appreciate the enormous interest in the subject of BSF in Ilkley and Bingley—conceivably also elsewhere—and there will be opportunities, if Members look, to raise these matters later.

[Julian Smith (Skipton and Ripon) (Con)]

3. How many expressions of interest in academy status have been received from schools in (a) Skipton and Ripon constituency and (b) North Yorkshire.

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[Toby Perkins (Chesterfield) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I gently say to Members that Stoke-on-Trent and Chesterfield are a considerable distance from Skipton and Ripon and, more widely, North Yorkshire? This is what we call a closed question, I am afraid.

[Esther McVey (Wirral West) (Con)]

4. What steps his Department is taking through the education system to assist children from poor families.

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[Mr Barry Sheerman (Huddersfield) (Lab/Co-op)]

14. What steps he is taking to ensure availability of continuing professional development for teachers.

[Mr Speaker]

Minister—any Minister.

[The Parliamentary Under-Secretary of State for Education (Tim Loughton)]

I am sorry, Mr Speaker—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I do not need to be advised by the Government Whip on the Front Bench. The hon. Member for Rochford and Southend East (James Duddridge) should remain quiet. We are on Question 14 and we have a Minister at the Box; I require no advice from the hon. Gentleman whatever.

[Tim Loughton]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. I was expecting some interest in Hexham from the Opposition, but clearly there is none.

I agree with the hon. Member for Huddersfield (Mr Sheerman) that the quality of teachers and professional development is important. International evidence shows that teachers learn from observing good teachers, and this happens best in schools. That is why the Government are committed to encouraging schools to demonstrate a strong culture of continuing professional development, with teachers leading their own development and that of others, and sharing effective practice within and between schools. That is why we are currently reviewing our policies and existing activities to ensure that they focus on that vision.

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[Glenda Jackson (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab)]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. It is always a pleasure to hear the hon. Lady, but I must observe in passing that Hampstead and Kilburn are some considerable distance from St Austell and Newquay.

[Hywel Williams (Arfon) (PC)]

16. What recent discussions he has had with Welsh Assembly Government Ministers on teachers’ pay in Wales.

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[Dr John Pugh (Southport) (LD)]

I have here a press cutting in which a local head teacher in my constituency complains about his school appearing on the Department’s database as “interested in academy status”, when all that he had actually done was to ask for details of a sketchy scheme. He now says that the chances of his school wanting academy status are minimal and that people are “playing politics” with this. How could such things happen? Could it be that the demand for academy status is being overstated? Also, will the Secretary of State correct the database?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. One question will probably suffice; one answer certainly will.

[Michael Gove]

I have consistently made it clear that all those who have expressed interest have only ever expressed interest. I am delighted that so many have done so, but as I am sure my hon. Friend knows, our legislation is permissive, and it will be for schools to decide, rather than Ministers or bureaucrats. That will be a welcome change from the dirigiste methods that so scarred education under the right hon. Member for Morley and Outwood.

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am grateful to the Secretary of State for that pithy reply, but I am afraid that demand has exceeded supply and we must now move on to the statement.

Oral Answers to Questions

John Bercow Excerpts

Thursday 8th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Gordon Henderson (Sittingbourne and Sheppey) (Con)]

Does my hon. Friend accept that there are constituencies in the south-east that face economic and regeneration challenges as great as those elsewhere in the country? Will he—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am sorry, but I must explain to the hon. Gentleman that the question specifically relates to the north-west and that although other parts of the country might share similar concerns, they are not relevant to this question. We all get used to these things; I have made these mistakes myself, I assure him.

[Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab)]

The Minister will know that businesses in the north-west are very concerned about the loss of investment that could result from the abolition of the Northwest Regional Development Agency. Will he answer a question that I asked a few weeks ago? Is the £1 billion of additional growth money from the regional growth fund in addition to or instead of money that has already been allocated to RDAs and local authorities for economic growth?

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[Miss Anne McIntosh (Thirsk and Malton) (Con)]

I yield to no one in my admiration for Graham Honeyman, having visited Sheffield Forgemasters when I was shadow Minister following the floods that devastated the company. However, will my right hon. Friend explain why, of all the grants and loans issued by Yorkshire Forward, north Yorkshire gets less than the 11% share to which it would be entitled and—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. That is wide of the question. The short answer is no, Secretary of State.

[Miss McIntosh]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. It is wide, and that is the end of the matter.

[Mr Betts]

On a point of order, Mr. Speaker. Given the unsatisfactory nature of the reply, may I indicate that I would like to seek to raise this matter on the Adjournment at a further date?

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman has done so and that is perfectly in order.

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[Mr Willetts]

The John Innes centre is a centre for plant science, but that does not mean it was a planted question.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I gently remind the Minister, who always looks very comfortable at the Dispatch Box but is usually looking the wrong way, that he needs to look at, and address, the House as a whole?

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[Mr Pat McFadden (Wolverhampton South East) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The answer to the right hon. Gentleman is that points of order follow statements. [Interruption.] Order. Somebody chuntered from a sedentary position that there was a point of order earlier. The hon. Member for Rhondda (Chris Bryant) is a considerable authority on these matters and knows perfectly well—it is helpful for me to explain this to the House—that one circumstance in which a point of order can come before a statement is when, in respect of a particular question, a Member is so dissatisfied with the answer that he or she signals an intention to raise the matter on the Adjournment. I explain that both for the benefit of the House and for those outside who are unaware of such matters.

Schools Funding

John Bercow Excerpts

Wednesday 7th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[The Secretary of State for Education (Michael Gove)]

With permission, Mr Speaker, I should like to apologise to you and to the whole House for the way information accompanying my oral statement on Monday was provided to all Members.

During my statement a list of schools affected by our plans to review capital funding was placed in the House of Commons Library. I wish to apologise to you and to the whole House for not placing that list on the Table of the House and in the Vote Office at the beginning of my statement, as you reminded me page 441 of “Erskine May” quite properly requires. I further wish to apologise for the inaccurate information on the list I was supplied with and which I gave to the House. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I apologise for interrupting the Secretary of State. The statement will be heard in silence. That is the way things are done in these circumstances.

[Michael Gove]

A number of schools were miscategorised, and for that I apologise. In particular, there were schools that were listed as proceeding when, in fact, their rebuild will not now go ahead. That confusion caused Members of this House and members of the public understandable distress and concern, and I wish to take full personal responsibility for that regrettable error.

I also wish to apologise to you, Mr Speaker, and to the House for any confusion over the manner of my apology today and any related media speculation. In responding to press queries earlier, my Department confirmed that I was writing to those affected by these mistakes, and it was my intention then to come to the House with as accurate a picture as possible of the exact errors and to apologise for them. I have placed a revised list of schools in the Vote Office and am writing to all Members affected. I would be grateful if any Members who are concerned that schools may have been wrongly categorised were to contact me personally, so that I can ensure, with them, that the information we have been supplied with is as accurate as possible. Once again, Mr Speaker, I am grateful to you and to the whole House for granting me the opportunity to make this statement and, once again, to apologise unreservedly.

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[Tony Baldry (Banbury) (Con)]

Does my right hon. Friend find the synthetic anger somewhat sickening? Banbury—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I know that passions are running very high on this matter—[Interruption.] Order. I certainly understand why, but the hon. Gentleman must be heard, and he will be.

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[Mr Tom Watson (West Bromwich East) (Lab)]

Mr Speaker, I can assure you that there is nothing synthetic about the anger felt in Sandwell. The pupils in Sandwell have seen what the new politics is: they have seen the attempt to sneak out a half-spun, half-apology on the BBC, and they have seen the Secretary of State come here humiliated for the second time this week to apologise to them. He can embarrass himself, he can disgrace his party, but what is intolerable is that he has cynically raised the hopes of hundreds and thousands of families. You’re a miserable pipsqueak of a man, Gove. You have—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Before we go any further, I must ask the hon. Gentleman to withdraw the term that I think he used. I think I heard the term, “pipsqueak”. The hon. Gentleman must withdraw that term. It is not appropriate—[Interruption.] Order. I know what I am doing. Members should leave this matter to me.

[Mr Watson]

Out of deference to you, Mr Speaker, I withdraw it.

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman.

[Michael Gove]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his question; it gives me the opportunity once again to apologise to his constituents and to other parents and teachers in Sandwell for the confusion that was caused by the mistake that I made on Monday. I understand the passion that he brings to the issue, and I understand how hard he fights for his constituents. I shall be very happy to go to West Bromwich and apologise to those who have been misled by the mistake that has been made. I am more than happy to do so. As I said earlier, the mistake was mine and mine alone, and I am happy to acknowledge it.

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[Nick Boles (Grantham and Stamford) (Con)]

The whole House welcomes the Secretary of State’s gracious apology. However, is not the real deceit the more heinous because it was intentional—the one perpetrated by Labour Members who ran around the country during the election campaign promising school rebuilding programmes that they knew the money was not there to supply? That is a disgrace.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Let me say very gently that, in so far as one can hear everything that was said, the hon. Gentleman has made his point, and made it very clearly, but the Secretary of State is not responsible for the policies or for the behaviour of other parties. He might, however, wish very briefly to reply.

[Michael Gove]

I am sure that the whole House will have heard what my hon. Friend says.

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

Does the Secretary of State understand not only the anger but the confusion of the young students from Copland school and Alperton school, who, at the very moment when he was at the Dispatch Box making his original statement, were receiving an award from the organisers of Building Schools for the Future for their contribution to the design of the new schools that they then heard him announce were not going ahead?

Does the Secretary of State also understand that the manner of his dealing with questions on the statement—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I have cut the hon. Gentleman off at one and a half questions, but I think we have the gravamen of what he wanted to convey.

[Michael Gove]

As the hon. Gentleman might know, I have visited Copland school and know that its facilities are less than adequate, so I appreciate the frustration that the staff, pupils and parents of that school will feel. I underlined on Monday the regrettable fact that the economic circumstances that we inherited meant that we could not go ahead as we might have wished with the school rebuilding programme. I also stressed that the manner in which Building Schools for the Future had been organised did not seem to me to guarantee the best value for money. We are reviewing how capital is allocated in order to ensure that we get value for money so that those schools across the country that do need rebuilding and renovation will receive that money in a more timely and efficient manner in future.

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[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Just before there is a growing enthusiasm for participation in the statement—people are standing up who were not standing up before—perhaps I can just emphasise to the House that the statement is about the manner in which matters were handled, and indeed to an extent about the inaccuracy of lists. We are not having a re-run of Monday’s statement, when the Secretary of State, if memory serves me, was available for one hour and 20 minutes. We are not going through all of that again.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Questions should therefore relate to matters in the statement tonight.

[Stephen Pound (Ealing North) (Lab)]

I thank the Secretary of State for his dignified statement, and I have a deal of sympathy for him, but may I ask for a little more than sympathy for the people of Cardinal Wiseman high school in my constituency, who have been told that their case for a rebuild under BSF is under further discussion as a sample school? Can he give the House some indication of when he will make a decision on that, because they desperately need to know the facts?

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[Michael Gove]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. The right hon. Gentleman should sometimes beware the entreaties of his friends, and I know he will be conscious of that. I have just made the point that we cannot rehearse all the arguments behind the announcement. I will leave it to the judgment of the Secretary of State briefly to respond.

[Michael Gove]

My hon. Friend refers to the list. The list was furnished to me by those involved in the Building Schools for the Future project, but it was my responsibility to check it before it came to the House. I was anxious to do so in as rigorous a way as possible. The fact that the list contained inaccuracies when it came to the House is my responsibility alone. It was for that that I wished to apologise, and I underline that apology thanks to my hon. Friend’s question.

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[Claire Perry (Devizes) (Con)]

Will the Secretary of State confirm that the other piece of important factual information he presented on Monday, the expansion of the Teach First programme, is in fact accurate, and that the numbers were presented—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am sorry; I respect the hon. Lady’s enthusiasm, but the short answer is that the Secretary of State cannot go into that, because it is way beyond the terms of the statement today. If I know the hon. Lady, she will save it up for another day, and we look forward to hearing it on a subsequent occasion.

[Glenda Jackson (Hampstead and Kilburn) (Lab)]

My hon. Friend the Member for Stoke-on-Trent North (Joan Walley) has gone to the heart of the situation, and the Secretary of State has markedly failed to answer her searching question. When the Secretary of State delivered his statement to the House, he presented the image of a man who had spent 24/7 examining the Building Schools for the Future programme and had at his fingertips absolutely every issue relating to it, yet we learn today that he did not have that knowledge. He should apologise to the House for his failure as a Secretary of State, and for failing markedly to be on top of his brief.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

It is extraordinary how this list was produced and put before the House. Let us recall what happened on Monday: the Secretary of State was cuddling the list as if it contained secret information, and he slipped bits out only as they were forced from him in response to questions from Opposition Members. Therefore some of us on the Opposition Benches suspect that the Secretary of State knew that the list was not complete and that there were errors in it when he was delivering it in the House—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I must ask the hon. Gentleman to resume his seat. I would not want to misunderstand the hon. Gentleman, but I am gaining an impression that he is suggesting that—[Interruption.] Order. I am gaining an impression that he is suggesting that the Secretary of State was engaged in a knowing deception. [Interruption.] I really do not believe that to be so, and to my knowledge there is certainly no evidence for that, and I cannot have a Member accusing any other Member of knowing deception—of deliberately misleading people—unless that can be substantiated.

[Clive Efford]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

I think it would be better if the hon. Gentleman left it there, but I will allow him a sentence to try to clarify his position.

[Clive Efford]

I did say that some of us suspect that that is the case, Mr Speaker, and if you ask me to withdraw that, I will obviously do so, but I think there is something that needs to be investigated further in the way that the Secretary of State treated the House. [Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. What I would say to the hon. Gentleman is that I have given a ruling and I think it is a fair one. I asked the hon. Gentleman to clarify his position, but it has not moved me, if I may say so. However, he is a very experienced parliamentarian—he and I came into the House together—and if he wants to table questions or write letters or both, and to engage in all sorts of other activities that satisfy him in relation to this subject, I do not think he will require any encouragement from me to do so.

[Michael Gove]

In the spirit of the hon. Gentleman’s question, I mentioned in response to a previous question that two lists were furnished on Monday afternoon. One list was supplied to Members, which listed schools by constituency, and another, which listed schools by local authority, went on my Department’s website. The aim was to be as candid as possible with all the people raising queries about the number and location of affected schools. I had sought to satisfy myself that the list I had was as accurate as possible, and I had ensured that the people who supplied me with it knew the importance of providing accurate information to the House. The fact that inaccurate information was supplied to the House is, however, my fault, and my fault alone. The fact that the information did not reach the hon. Member in the most accurate and timely way possible is my fault, and my fault alone, and I apologise unreservedly.

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Gove]

It is my belief that the list we have placed in the Vote Office is accurate. I know that there was particular confusion regarding schools in Durham in the first list that was issued on Monday, but we have sought to clarify that and I believe that it is now correct.

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the Secretary of State and to all hon. and right hon. Members for their co-operation.

Education Funding

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 5th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am sorry to say that the Secretary of State significantly exceeded his time, which he will not be allowed to do again. In fairness, I shall also have to allow some modest leeway for the shadow Secretary of State.

[Ed Balls (Morley and Outwood) (Lab/Co-op)]

The Labour Government built or refurbished 4,000 schools—the biggest school building programme since the Victorian era—and today is a black day for our country’s schools. It is a damning indictment of this new Tory-Liberal coalition’s priorities and it is a shameful statement from this new Secretary of State, who will for ever go down in history as the man who snatched free school meals from 500,000 poorer pupils and has now, today, in one stroke axed hundreds of brand-new schools from communities across the length and breadth of our country.

Building Schools for the Future was a once-in-a-generation chance to transform the whole local fabric of education—of secondary education, special schools and vocational learning, too. The freezing of the programme that has just been announced is a hammer blow for many hundreds of thousands of children, parents, teachers and governors who will now not get the transformed new school they were promised.

I predicted this day during the general election, and, after weeks of indecision, uncertainty and media speculation that has led to widespread confusion and concern in schools and in the construction industry, too, I am grateful that the right hon. Gentleman has finally made a statement to this House. However, is it not a disgrace that, even now, the Secretary of State has not provided a list of all the schools that will be affected? How can hon. Members on both sides of the House ask questions of the Secretary of State when they do not know which of the schools in their constituencies will be affected? The Secretary of State knows the names of the schools. I believe that he has a duty to tell the House and the country and that he should agree to publish the list now—straight away—so we can give it proper scrutiny.

Let me turn to the some of the detailed issues that the right hon. Gentleman mentioned. On standards, will he confirm that in the recent trends in international mathematics and science study—or TIMSS—England has risen from 25th in the world to seventh in the world and that among 10 to 14-year-olds we now have the highest achievement in mathematics of all European countries in that study? Why cannot he stop running down the achievements of our children and teachers in our schools?

On teaching, does the Secretary of State agree that we have the best generation of teachers that we have ever had? Will he confirm that the previous Government had already invested in expanding Teach First, including pilots for primary schools? Is he aware that it was the leadership of Teach First who warned me that to accelerate the expansion of the programme any faster would put at risk the quality and success of Teach First—a risk that he has just taken in this statement?

On the Building Schools for the Future programme, the National Audit Office looked into the programme last February and said that originally the forecasts were “overly optimistic”, and that local authorities were asked

“to spend more time to improve their proposals, because…it was more important to improve the quality than to accelerate the programme.”

The NAO concluded that the processes for procurement had “significantly” improved and also found that the total capital cost of each BSF school was similar to that of other schools and 17% cheaper than that of previous academies.

In the next year, as the Secretary of State travels around the country opening the 200 new schools set to open under the BSF programme, will he tell pupils, parents, governors and contractors that their school is part of a programme he believes to be “dysfunctional” and a “waste” of money? Or will he withdraw these unrepresentative and vindictive remarks? It is not the bureaucracy that he is abolishing, but hundreds of new schools for children in our country.

As for my record as Secretary of State, some very serious allegations have been made. I have this afternoon written to the permanent secretary at the Department for Education, who was also the accounting officer for the whole time I was Secretary of State. I have asked him to confirm that all capital funding announcements, including those on BSF, were made with prior agreement between the Department and the Treasury in a normal and fully legitimate way and with his full agreement as chief accounting officer and to confirm that if that had not been done properly, the accounting officer would have insisted on a ministerial direction but that no such directions were issued by me and none were requested. If the right hon. Gentleman has evidence that the proper processes were not undertaken, it is incumbent on him to provide that evidence to the House, rather than make these allegations. I hope that he will agree that his permanent secretary must be encouraged to clarify these issues as soon as possible today.

The right hon. Gentleman has chosen today to freeze BSF and to ask one of the Prime Minister’s old university chums to review the whole programme. He has offered no assurance that this review is anything more than a fig leaf, however. Is it not the truth that 750 schools that have not yet signed their contracts will now be told that they will not get their new school building? We need to know how many schools will be affected, where they are, and how much money has already been spent on those programmes. Is it correct, as the Financial Times reports, that more than £1 billion-worth of new undertakings have been signed since the general election? Does the right hon. Gentleman have an estimate of how much his Department will now have to pay in legal and contractual costs associated with those frozen or cancelled contracts? How many private sector jobs does he think will be lost as a result of these decisions?

The Secretary of State says that this decision is inevitable. That is what Ramsay MacDonald said in 1931, and Margaret Thatcher said to the House in 1980 about investment spending cuts. Only a few weeks ago, the Chancellor of the Exchequer told the House in the Budget statement that

“an error was made in the early 1990s when the then Government cut capital spending”

and said that he had decided that there

“will be no further reductions in capital spending totals”.—[Official Report, 22 June 2010; Vol. 512, c. 170.]

Is it not the truth that, while I won my battles with the Treasury for rising education spending, the Secretary of State has lost his battle and is now planning cuts of between 10% to 20% to the schools budget? Will he also confirm that his top priority for the spending review will be his free-market schools policy, which will see new schools being built in an unfair two-tier system paid for by cuts to the Building Schools for the Future programme and to the new schools that were promised over the past year or two in the constituencies of hon. Members on both sides of the House?

What we have seen from the coalition today is another attack on jobs, another assault on opportunities and a huge blow to the life chances of children in communities across our country. This was not an unavoidable decision; it is a choice that the right hon. Gentleman has made, and in my view, he has made the wrong choice. I say to every family, every school, every Member of Parliament and every community blighted by this decision that we on this side of the House will fight to save our new schools. We not stand idly by and see this happen.

[Michael Gove]

I am grateful to the shadow Secretary of State for his questions. As I pointed out in my statement, the number of schools rebuilt under Building Schools for the Future under the previous Government was just 96 out of 3,500 secondary schools. Under this Government, 706 projects will go ahead. It is also the case, as he said, that we know where those school projects are. As hon. Members will know, projects will go ahead in those local authorities that have reached financial close, and I presume that they will know whether their local authority has reached that stage. Every single one of the school projects that is to go ahead will be listed, and every Member of the House and every local authority is being written to today to be told which projects are going ahead—[Interruption.] The Opposition will appreciate that, with more than 1,500 projects involved, many of them needed to be looked at in detail. That is why I will be writing to every Member of the House.

The right hon. Gentleman said that we were going to cancel free school meals. I must remind him that not a single child in receipt of free school meals will lose their free school meals under this Government. That is an unsubstantiated allegation. He also said that he predicted today’s announcement during the general election. However, during the general election, my hon. Friend the Member for Bognor Regis and Littlehampton (Mr Gibb) said that we would be looking at Building Schools for the Future, and that we could not guarantee any project beyond financial close. So there was no prediction on the part of the right hon. Gentleman, but there was a grim warning on the part of my hon. Friend that the devastating assault on the public finances over which the right hon. Gentleman helped to preside meant that tough decisions would have to be taken by anyone, whatever the result of the election.

The right hon. Gentleman argues that under the proposals, the private sector will lose out. I have to point out to him that we are sticking precisely to the limits on capital laid out by the right hon. Member for Edinburgh South West (Mr Darling). If the right hon. Member for Morley and Outwood (Ed Balls) thinks that the proposed level of capital spending is devastating for the private sector, he should have been campaigning against the last Chancellor of the Exchequer before the last election. [Interruption.] Let me rephrase that. He should have been campaigning more vigorously against the last Chancellor of the Exchequer before the last election.

The right hon. Member for Morley and Outwood says that the leadership of Teach First did not back our proposals for expansion. I have to say that our proposals for expansion were negotiated with the leadership of Teach First, who were delighted to see the Government carry forward what the previous Government were not able to do. He says that that is money wasted, and he refuses to back that expansion of Teach First. I believe that investing money in quality teaching in our poorest schools is the right choice for the future. It is interesting that he thinks it is the wrong choice. It is also interesting that the right hon. Gentleman thinks that having gone to a public school and Oxford university automatically rules someone out of making any decision about the future of school capital, in which case he is hoist by his own rhetorical petard.

Let me make it clear that if we compare the improvement in attainment between Building Schools for the Future and Teach First, a report by PricewaterhouseCoopers showed that Building Schools for the Future had little statistically significant impact on people’s attitude and behaviour and there was no firm evidence of improved attainment, whereas Teach First, in a study by the university of Manchester, has been shown to have led to a statistically significant improvement in GCSE results.

The truth is that the right hon. Gentleman made unsustainable and irresponsible promises that he knew no Government could keep. He went around the country saying that new schools would be built, when the Chancellor had pledged to cut capital spending in half. He asks about the reality of his irresponsible spending. In the three years in which he was in charge of his Department, the amount of spending that he was relying on coming from other Departments—the amount of underspend that he was relying on—rose from £80 million to £800 million and now to more than £2.5 billion. That £2.5 billion of unfunded commitments is evidence of scandalous irresponsibility.

If anyone in the House wants an example of a truly damaging decision on school building, I remind Opposition Members what the last Labour Government did with the Learning and Skills Council. Ministers invited scores of schools and colleges to submit building plans, which cost those schools and colleges millions of pounds. Ministers then arbitrarily and without warning cancelled 90% of those projects scheduled to go ahead. When those projects were cancelled, schools’ budgets were devastated and there were holes in the ground—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I gently say to the Secretary of State that I am witnessing something that is, in my experience in the Chair, unprecedented? The right hon. Gentleman must answer the questions that are put to him. He is not supposed to be reading out a previously written script which either was or was not said before. What I want the Secretary of State to do is briefly to respond to each question, and I would like Back Benchers to have a chance to participate.

[Michael Gove]

I am very grateful to you, Mr. Speaker. The point that I was making is that if we are looking at school building projects and we want to see what scandalously went wrong, we need to look at what went wrong under my predecessor. When he was responsible for the Learning and Skills Council, 90% of projects were cancelled. When he was responsible for education funding, we know that 90% of projects had to be—

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am sorry. Let me say to the Secretary of State that the assurance of his gratitude is of no interest to me; adherence to my ruling is. The right hon. Gentleman has had his say. We will now proceed to Back Benchers. I want to accommodate as many as possible, and that requires economy both in question and in answer.

[Mr Graham Stuart (Beverley and Holderness) (Con)]

Building Schools for the Future achieved too little at too great a cost, as the Labour-dominated Select Committee on Children, Schools and Families concluded in the previous Parliament. When will the new review team report back to the Secretary of State so that we can have a clearer view of the policy going forward?

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Gove]

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s question and can confirm that four schools in his constituency are unaffected and five have been stopped, but it is my—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. At this point the Secretary of State’s answer is entirely orderly. Let us hear it.

[Michael Gove]

I am grateful for the hon. Gentleman’s contribution when he was a schools Minister. He will appreciate, as I do, that the most important thing in improving attainment for the poorest is making sure that we improve the quality of teaching.

--- Later in debate ---

[Sir Alan Beith (Berwick-upon-Tweed) (LD)]

Is the Secretary of State aware—[Interruption.]

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I do apologise for interrupting the right hon. Gentleman, but I am hearing from a sedentary position, “Point of order”. May I say gently to the House that points of order follow statements? I have an almost insatiable appetite for hearing—[Interruption.] Order. I have an almost insatiable appetite for hearing and responding to points of order, but everything in its time. The House will want to hear Sir Alan Beith.

[Sir Alan Beith]

Does the Secretary of State realise that the arbitrary rules of Labour’s Building Schools for the Future programme excluded schools in desperate need of replacement in counties such as Northumberland? Will the mechanism that he proposes to use allow for some of those urgent cases to be considered?

--- Later in debate ---

[Barry Gardiner (Brent North) (Lab)]

Will the Secretary of State confirm that the excellent BSF applications from the previously Lib Dem-Tory council in Brent, which were supported at the time by the Minister of State, Department for Education, the hon. Member for Brent Central (Sarah Teather), will be subject to the freeze? Could that be why the Minister refused to debate those issues with me at the Brent teachers association last week, and why she looks so bloody miserable today?

[Mr Speaker]

Order. My tender sensibilities have been gravely affected, but I am more concerned about people in the country, particularly young people. Will the hon. Gentleman please withdraw that unseemly term?

[Barry Gardiner]

Mr Speaker, I withdraw the unseemly term and replace it with “miserable”.

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Questions with the brevity demonstrated by the hon. Member for Rochdale (Simon Danczuk) are an inspiration that others might seek to follow.

[Matthew Hancock (West Suffolk) (Con)]

My right hon. Friend will be aware of the hard work that the many inspirational teachers in West Suffolk do to wade through some of the bureaucracy with which they have to deal. Does he agree that it is irresponsible to raise hopes of new schools when no sustainable funding is available?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I apologise for having to interrupt the hon. Lady, but we simply do not have time for preambles at this point. Will she please bring herself to put a question?

[Chi Onwurah]

Yes, I would like to ask the Secretary of State if he will at least acknowledge that the investment of the last Labour Government will reap real rewards for Newcastle, for my school and for my city.

--- Later in debate ---

[Michael Gove]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman. My argument is that, because the shadow Education Secretary made spending promises on Building Schools for the Future at the same time as the then Chancellor of the Exchequer was making it clear that capital spending would be reduced by half, those projects were unfunded and unsustainable.

[Mr Speaker]

Last, but certainly not least, Mr David Anderson.

[Mr David Anderson (Blaydon) (Lab)]

I thank my hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns) for doing the job of the Secretary of State and bringing us the documents from the Library. As a result, I now know that four schools in Blaydon will not get support. Are we not seeing the real cost of the Tory Budget? Is it not the truth that the Government are giving corporation tax cuts, introducing a very timid bank levy and doing nothing about tax evasion and avoidance, but the people paying for it are the schoolchildren of Blaydon?

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Before I take points of order, let me acknowledge, without apology, that I ran both statements very long today. That is unusual, albeit, I suspect, not unprecedented, and it certainly should not be regarded as the norm or a guide to what Members can expect. I took account both of the level of interest in the two extremely important matters and of the nature of, and likely interest in, the business to follow. I think that is perhaps worth the House knowing.

Points of Order

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 5th July 2010 Commons Chamber

[Ed Balls (Morley and Outwood) (Lab/Co-op)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. A Member of the House doing an interview with the BBC at 5.25 this afternoon was given the full list of schools in her constituency on the departmental list. It transpires that that was sent out to the media by the Department at 5.20, but at 5.45 there was still no list in the House of Commons Library. Is that not a shameful way to treat the House? How can Members respond when they are not given the information being given to the press?

Further, at 4 o’clock this afternoon, the Chief Secretary to the Treasury made a written ministerial statement in which he announced a £1 billion cut to the budget of the Department for Education—a cut that was not mentioned subsequently in the Secretary of State’s statement, which was labelled a statement on school funding. How can that happen?

Further, allegations have been made in the House about financial improprieties that happened before the election. I said clearly that there had been no direction, and that everything was agreed with the Treasury. The allegations were then repeated. Can we have chapter and verse and a reply from the accounting officer at the Department before the House rises tonight, so that we can clear up the matter and find out who is telling the truth?

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the right hon. Gentleman for his point of order. Matters of procedure, or indeed of process, are matters for me in the Chair. Matters of content of statements are not. What I can say to him, and to the House, is the following. Obviously, I have done, or have had done for me, a little bit of research in anticipation of the possibility of points of order on this matter. “Erskine May”, on page 441, makes it clear that

“a document which has been cited by a Minister ought to be laid upon the Table of the House, if it can be done without injury to the public interest.”

That principle does seem to apply to the list—the document, or documents, in this case. It, or they, should be available to the whole House, rather than just to individual Members when they ask or through correspondence afterwards. I think that the thrust of what I have said is clear.

We had extensive exchanges and considerable dextrousness was required from the Secretary of State for Education. He was asked a great many questions and sought to answer them. It seemed to me a pretty unwieldy process, to put it mildly, for us not to have the documents available at the appropriate time. I have noted what the right hon. Member for Morley and Outwood (Ed Balls) has said about the timing of the passing of documents to members of the media and so on, but before I pass any comment on that matter, I think it is only right to ask the Secretary of State for his comments in response to the point of order and to what I have said.

[The Secretary of State for Education (Michael Gove)]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. I am grateful to you for your direction from “Erskine May” in that regard. I wanted to ensure that we made a decision based on rules-based criteria, and I hope that that was clear in my statement. It was also the case that a list was placed in the Library of the House. I apologise to you, Mr Speaker, and to the House, if Members feel that the decision to place it in the Library of the House was in any way too slow and in any way impeded their capacity to ask the questions that they properly want to ask.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. Before I take further points of order—I am happy to do so—let me say that I am grateful to the Secretary of State for what he has said, but there is a response to it. First, I think that laying the documents either upon the Table of the House, to coincide with the start of the statement, or in the Vote Office, would be the proper course to follow in these circumstances. I have put that on the record, so that he can be clear for the future. Secondly, with reference to the question of timing, I wonder whether he can confirm or refute the suggestion that a copy of the list was passed to members of the media while his statement and the exchanges on it were still in progress.

[Michael Gove]

I am not aware of that because I was here in the House answering questions.

[Mr Speaker]

In response—I do not want to have an extended exchange with the right hon. Gentleman, and I am grateful for his efforts to co-operate —[Interruption.] Order. If the Secretary of State says that he is not aware—he is a person of his word—I of course accept that he was not aware, but what I would say is that the Secretary of State should be aware of whether something has been passed to the media before the statement is concluded. If he is not aware, it is inevitably possible that something would be passed to the media, as it has been suggested has happened, before the statement is concluded. That would be a rank discourtesy to the House. I have known the right hon. Gentleman for 20 years, and I have always known him to be a person of the utmost courtesy, but it is fair to say that there has been something of a breach of courtesy today.

[Ed Balls]

Further to that point of order, Mr Speaker. On your ruling, I told the House five minutes ago that the list was circulated to the press at 5.20. Either the Secretary of State for Education doubts my word, or he should apologise to the House for the list being sent to the media 25 to 30 minutes before it was placed in the Library of the House. Can we also have answers to the question on the allegations about my impropriety? Will he provide a reply with evidence about these allegations of financial impropriety from the accounting officer and the permanent secretary of the Department before the House rises tonight?

[Mr Speaker]

The shadow Secretary of State has now twice, very clearly, made his point about the timing of the release of the documents to non-Members of Parliament. The Secretary of State has offered a form of apology; whether he wishes to add to that is a matter for him.

As for the other important matter raised by the shadow Secretary of State, namely what he regards as a slur on his good name, I must tell him that, procedurally, it is not a matter for me. It is a matter of debate, and I have a feeling that it will be the subject of continued exchanges between the two titans for some time to come.

[Clive Efford (Eltham) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I hope you will agree that the House is being treated with contempt this afternoon. One copy of that list was finally put in the Library, and those who were queuing to try to obtain it were unable to return to the Chamber before the end of the statement. That is a complete and utter disgrace. Will you try to find out when it was decided to put the copy of the list in the Library? It is highly suspicious that the Secretary of State did not make clear in his statement that a copy was in the Library; we forced it out of him that it had been done while he was making the statement. Will you also find out, Mr. Speaker, when the copy actually went into the Library? It is impossible for us to question the Secretary of State on what is going on in our constituencies unless we have the details.

Finally, Mr. Speaker, I hope that you will compare the statement with the list that was in the press over the weekend, because the substance of the statement was what was in that list. We heard nothing from the Secretary of State in the House today that had not been in the newspapers over the weekend.

[Mr Speaker]

The first point that I will make to the hon. Gentleman is this. I think I have already made clear—but let me underline the point—that it is not sufficient simply to provide the Library with a copy of a document. If the document appertains to a matter that is currently before the House, in order to aid and abet Members in their scrutiny duties, copies of that relevant document should be available in the Vote Office, on the Table of the House, or, better still, both.

Secondly, let me say to the hon. Gentleman that we cannot have a continued exchange on every point of detail now. I have, I think, made clear that, whether inadvertently or not—I leave others to judge—the House has been unfairly and discourteously treated. I have made that point extremely robustly, and I do not think that I need add to it at this stage.

As for what the hon. Gentleman said about what was in the media, I am happy to undertake my own reading at an appropriate time. I suggest to the Secretary of State, who is listening to these exchanges—[Interruption.] The Secretary of State may wish to add to whatever apology he has already uttered, but I suggest to him that it would be helpful if he would look into the matter of timing of release of documents by his Department and report back to me, because it is clearly a matter of interest to Members of the House.

[Chris Bryant (Rhondda) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I hear what you say about the papers and the sort of apology that we have already had from the Secretary of State, but much of this information was in the media throughout the weekend. Moreover, in a statement earlier this afternoon the Deputy Prime Minister told us that he wanted to come to the House before consulting the Welsh Assembly or the Scottish Parliament, but the date of the referendum on the alternative vote was in all the media last Friday. In fact, it started to appear in the media almost the moment Parliament finished sitting last week. I have a suspicion that the Deputy Prime Minister himself spoke to journalists for precisely that purpose.

I see that the Leader of the House is in the Chamber. I wonder whether you, Mr Speaker, could consult him and the shadow Leader of the House to consider ways of ensuring an end to the practice of briefing the media before coming to the House. Some of us had hoped that when there was a hung Parliament, the House would take more authority than the Government.

[Mr Speaker]

As I have just been reminded, I have opined on this matter on many occasions, and I may have cause to do so again in the future.

Let me briefly say two things to the hon. Gentleman. First, the appearance in the media of a date for a referendum was the subject of media speculation at the time. There is a limited number of dates that might be considered, and I do not put that in quite the same category as the disclosure of the detailed contents of a statement. Secondly, although I have listened very carefully to the hon. Gentleman—who never raises points of order lightly, and is always very well briefed when he does so—I think it fair to say that one cannot simply act on suspicion. The hon. Gentleman said a moment ago that he suspected that the Deputy Prime Minister had passed material to the media. I must rest content with what I know to be true. The hon. Gentleman has made his point, it is fairly on the record, and I will keep a beady eye on these matters—not merely on a weekly or monthly basis but, as I think he will know, on a daily basis.

[Derek Twigg (Halton) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I am sure it will not have escaped your notice that this is the third apology that we have heard in less than a week, and that two of those apologies have come from Secretaries of State. That must be some sort of record.

Hundreds and hundreds of schools and constituencies have been affected by today’s announcement. It is extremely important. The Secretary of State said that this project had not been properly funded. It is a matter of fact that, if it had not been properly funded, the permanent secretary would have asked the then Secretary of State to provide a letter of direction. Can we not ensure that the Secretary of State returns to the House by 10 o’clock tonight to make a statement on that very issue?

[Mr Speaker]

I know that my response to his point of order will disappoint the hon. Gentleman, but I must tell him that the nature and quality of statements are for both the Minister concerned and others to assess. They are not, in this instance, a matter of order. There is a genuine dispute, and it is a dispute about which the hon. Gentleman feels passionately. He is entitled to do so, he has put his point on the record very clearly, and I have a feeling that he will share it more widely with those who have recently re-elected him.

[Mr Andy Slaughter (Hammersmith) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Will you require the Secretary of State to come back tomorrow and make a proper statement on this matter? I asked about spending in my constituency, and the Secretary of State did not answer the question. I am grateful to my hon. Friend the Member for Gateshead (Ian Mearns), who has now given me the answer—all 13 projects have been stopped—but I should not have to ask such questions; I should be given the information here. There was plenty of time for that during the extended session on the statement.

As you will see if you look at the statement, Mr. Speaker, the first four pages are about what the last Labour Government did. It is point-scoring waffle. There was plenty of time for the information to be given, and if it had been given, we could have asked questions based on it. Will you ask the Secretary of State to come and make a correct statement on the matter?

[Mr Speaker]

I have been very explicit about the parts of the handling of this matter that I regard as unsatisfactory. What we cannot do—or it would not, in my judgment, be a proper use of the time of the House later in the week for us to do it—is rerun the statement.

The hon. Gentleman is a man of great ingenuity and indefatigability, and I feel sure that he will find ways in which to highlight his concerns—if not tomorrow, later in the week or on other occasions. I feel sure that as soon as he leaves the Chamber, he will be dedicating his grey cells to precisely that pursuit.

[John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I dread producing a few facts to cover the Labour party’s synthetic anger, but when I heard that the list of schools was in the Library, I thought it would be useful to go and get a copy. It does raise a complex point of order. We have had a relatively long session on a statement about an important issue. At what time should documents be put in the Library? We should bear it in mind that as soon as they are in the Library they are in the public domain, and can be handed to the media. These documents went to the Library at 17.52. Should documents go to the Library and be available generally at the start of the statement, or at the end of it? That is an important point of order.

[Mr Speaker]

Let me say first to the hon. Gentleman that his points of order are always important, and that this was no exception. Secondly, let me say to him that I thought I had made this point clear, but if I failed to do, I apologise to the House. My very strong view is that relevant documents should be available on the Table of the House or in the Vote Office, or both, at the start—I repeat, at the start—of a statement, to make it easier for Members to conduct their duty of scrutiny. I hope that that is helpful to the hon. Gentleman and the House.

[Mary Creagh (Wakefield) (Lab)]

Further to the point of order made by my hon. Friend the Member for Hammersmith (Mr Slaughter), Mr Speaker. Today there was a written statement of the additional £1 billion of cuts in the education capital spending budget, which will further affect hundreds if not thousands of schools that may have already engaged builders to carry out the work. Can we not be given extra time tomorrow in which to question the Secretary of State on this matter, and to drill into the detail of not just the £1 billion that we have lost today, but the extra £1 billion that was snuck out when we were all sitting in the Chamber?

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

The frustration of the hon. Lady is overflowing like Vesuvius, and I entirely understand why that is the case, but what I would say to her, in very short order, is, “No I can’t make that commitment.” She has very eloquently put her concerns on the record, but the reason why I cannot make that commitment is that the manner in which Government make a statement, whether it is written or oral, is a matter for the Government. I understand what the hon. Lady says, and the Secretary of State will have heard it, but it seems to me to be in a different category from the other matters of which we have treated in these points of order exchanges.

If there are no further points of order—if the appetite has been exhausted—we can move to the presentation of Bills. Before we move on, however, may I thank the Secretary of State, the shadow Secretary of State and all Members who took part in what were admittedly somewhat heated exchanges? These are very important issues and they have been fully aired.

Bills Presented

Employment Opportunities Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Christopher Chope, supported by Mr Peter Bone, Mr Mark Field, Adam Afriyie, Mr Douglas Carswell and Mr David Nuttall, presented a Bill to introduce more freedom, flexibility and opportunity for those seeking employment in the public and private sectors; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 17 June, and to be printed (Bill 24).

Drugs (Roadside Testing) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Christopher Chope, supported by Mr Peter Bone, Philip Davies, Mr Greg Knight, Mr Philip Hollobone, Mark Pritchard and Mr David Nuttall, presented a Bill to make provision for roadside testing for illegal drugs; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 10 June, and to be printed (Bill 25).

United Kingdom (Parliamentary Sovereignty) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Christopher Chope, supported by Mr Peter Bone, Mr William Cash, Philip Davies, Mr Douglas Carswell, Mark Pritchard, Mr Philip Hollobone, Mr Brian Binley, Jacob Rees-Mogg, Mr David Nuttall and Mr John Whittingdale, presented a Bill to reaffirm the sovereignty of the United Kingdom Parliament; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 18 March, and to be printed (Bill 26).

Broadcasting (Public Service Content) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Christopher Chope, supported by Mr Peter Bone, Philip Davies, Mr Mark Field, Mark Pritchard, Mr Philip Hollobone, Mr David Nuttall and Mr Douglas Carswell, presented a Bill to define public service content for the purposes of public service broadcasting.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 1 April, and to be printed (Bill 27).

Training Wage Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Christopher Chope, supported by Mr Peter Bone, Mr Robert Walter, Mr Douglas Carswell, Mr Brian Binley and Mr David Nuttall, presented a Bill to make provision that persons receiving a training wage are exempt from legislation relating to the minimum wage; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 18 March, and to be printed (Bill 28).

Minimum Wage (Amendment) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Christopher Chope, supported by Mr Peter Bone, Mr Mark Field, Mr David Nuttall and Mr Douglas Carswell, presented a Bill to enable the national minimum wage to be varied to reflect local labour market conditions; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 4 March, and to be printed (Bill 29).

Referendums Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Christopher Chope, supported by Mr Peter Bone, Philip Davies, Mr Mark Field, Mr Philip Hollobone, Mr Douglas Carswell, Mr David Nuttall and Geoffrey Clifton-Brown, presented a Bill to provide for minimum turn-out thresholds for referendums; to impose restrictions on holding elections and referendums on the same day; to facilitate combined referendums on different issues; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 18 March, and to be printed (Bill 30).

Tribunals (maximum Compensation Awards) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Christopher Chope, supported by Mr Peter Bone, Philip Davies, Mr Mark Field, Mr Brian Binley and Mr David Nuttall, presented a Bill to enable maximum limits to be established for compensation in tribunal awards for cases involving unlawful discrimination; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 17 June, and to be printed (Bill 31).

Public Bodies (Disposal of Assets) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Christopher Chope, supported by Mr Peter Bone, Philip Davies, Mr Douglas Carswell and Mr David Nuttall, presented a Bill to make provision to require certain public bodies to dispose of unused or under-used assets by public auctions; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 17 June, and to be printed (Bill 32).

Regulatory Authorities (level of Charges) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Christopher Chope, supported by Mr Peter Bone, Philip Davies, Mr Robert Walter, Mr Douglas Carswell and Mr David Nuttall, presented a Bill to provide for controls on the powers of certain regulatory authorities to impose charges for their services; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 13 May, and to be printed (Bill 33).

National Park Authorities Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Christopher Chope, supported by Mr Desmond Swayne, Dr Julian Lewis, Mr Mark Field and Mr Peter Bone, presented a Bill to empower the Secretary of State to abolish National Park Authorities; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 1 April, and to be printed (Bill 34).

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman has a lot of reading to do, and we look forward to the results of that.

European Union (Audit of Benefits and Costs of UK Membership) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Philip Hollobone presented a Bill to require the Secretary of State to commission an independent audit of the economic costs and benefits of the United Kingdom’s membership of the European Union; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 10 June, and to be printed (Bill 35).

Residential Roads (Adoption by Local Authorities) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Philip Hollobone presented a Bill to require the handover of residential roads built by developers to local highways authorities within certain time periods; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 18 March, and to be printed (Bill 36).

National Service Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Philip Hollobone presented a Bill to provide a system of national service for young persons; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 4 March, and to be printed (Bill 37).

Young Offenders (Parental responsibility) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Philip Hollobone presented a Bill to make provision for a mechanism to hold individuals to account for any criminal sanctions imposed upon young people for whom those individuals hold parental responsibility; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 17 June, and to be printed (Bill 38).

Return of Asylum Seekers (Applications from Certain Countries) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Philip Hollobone presented a Bill to provide for the immediate return of asylum seekers to countries designated as safe; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 3 December, and to be printed (Bill 39).

Apprehension of Burglars Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Philip Hollobone presented a Bill to provide immunity from prosecution or civil action for persons who apprehend or attempt to apprehend burglars; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 4 February, and to be printed (Bill 40).

Taxation Freedom Day Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Philip Hollobone presented a Bill to provide for an annual Taxation Freedom Day to reflect the proportion of tax paid by individuals from their income; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 1 April, and to be printed (Bill 41).

European Communities Act 1972 (Repeal) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Philip Hollobone presented a Bill to repeal the European Communities Act 1972 and related legislation; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 1 April, and to be printed (Bill 42).

Rights Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Philip Hollobone presented a Bill to set out certain principles in a United Kingdom Bill of Rights; to repeal the Human Rights Act 1998; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 13 May, and to be printed (Bill 43).

Sentencing (Reform) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Philip Hollobone presented a Bill to reform sentencing provision to ensure that the length of a custodial sentence reflects the sentence of a court; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 11 February, and to be printed (Bill 44)

[Mr Speaker]

We look forward to the product of the hon. Gentleman burning the midnight oil.

European Union Membership (Referendum) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Peter Bone, supported by Mr Philip Hollobone, Mr Christopher Chope, Mr Douglas Carswell, Mr Nigel Dodds, Mark Reckless, Philip Davies and Mr David Nuttall, presented a Bill to require the holding of a referendum on whether the United Kingdom should remain a member of the European Union; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 4 March, and to be printed (Bill 45).

Broadcasting (Television Licence Fee Abolition) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Peter Bone, supported by Mr Philip Hollobone, Mark Pritchard, Mr Christopher Chope, Mr Douglas Carswell, Mr Nigel Dodds, Mark Reckless, Mr Brian Binley, Philip Davies and Mr David Nuttall, presented a Bill to make provision for the abolition of the television licence fee; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 13 May, and to be printed (Bill 46).

Elector Registration Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Peter Bone, supported by Mr Philip Hollobone, Mark Pritchard, Mr Christopher Chope, Mr Douglas Carswell, Mr Nigel Dodds, Mark Reckless, Mr Brian Binley, Mr William Cash, Philip Davies and Mr David Nuttall, presented a Bill to require each elector applying to register to vote to certify their entitlement to vote; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 4 March, and to be printed (Bill 47).

Electoral Law (Amendment) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Peter Bone, supported by Mr Philip Hollobone, Mark Pritchard, Mr Christopher Chope, Mr Douglas Carswell, Mr Nigel Dodds, Mark Reckless, Mr Brian Binley, Mr William Cash, Philip Davies and Mr David Nuttall, presented a Bill to enable electors in the precincts of a polling station before the time designated for the closing of the poll to vote; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 22 October, and to be printed (Bill 48).

Human Trafficking (Border Control) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Peter Bone, supported by Mr Philip Hollobone, Mark Pritchard, Mr Christopher Chope, Mr Douglas Carswell, Mr Nigel Dodds, Mark Reckless, Mr Brian Binley, Philip Davies, Mr David Nuttall and Dr Térèse Coffey, presented a Bill to require border control officers to stop and interview potential victims of trafficking notwithstanding entitlements under European Union law to free movement of persons; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 13 May, and to be printed (Bill 49).

Medical Insurance (Tax Relief) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Peter Bone, supported by Mark Pritchard, Mr Christopher Chope, Mr Douglas Carswell, Mr Nigel Dodds, Mr Brian Binley, Mr William Cash, Philip Davies and Mr David Nuttall, presented a Bill to provide for tax relief on medical insurance premiums.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 4 February, and to be printed (Bill 50).

Snow Clearance Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Peter Bone, supported by Mr Philip Hollobone, Mark Pritchard, Mr Christopher Chope, Mr Douglas Carswell, Mr Nigel Dodds, Mark Reckless, Mr Brian Binley, Mr William Cash, Philip Davies, Mr David Nuttall and Dr Térèse Coffey, presented Bill to provide immunity from prosecution or civil action for persons who have removed or attempted to remove snow from public places; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 12 November, and to be printed (Bill 51).

Armed Forces (Leave) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Peter Bone, supported by Mr Philip Hollobone, Mark Pritchard, Mr Christopher Chope, Mr Douglas Carswell, Mr Nigel Dodds, Mark Reckless, Mr Brian Binley, Mr William Cash, Philip Davies, Mr David Nuttall and Chris Heaton-Harris, presented Bill to provide that leave for members of the armed forces serving overseas should be calculated from the time an individual arrives back in the United Kingdom; and for connected purposes.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 19 November, and to be printed (Bill 52).

Transparent Taxation (Receipts) Bill

Presentation and First Reading (Standing Order No. 57)

Mr Peter Bone, supported by Mr Philip Hollobone, Mark Pritchard, Mr Christopher Chope, Mr Douglas Carswell, Mr Nigel Dodds, Mark Reckless, Mr Brian Binley, Mr William Cash, Philip Davies, Mr David Nuttall and Chris Heaton-Harris, presented a Bill to make provision for all receipts printed in the United Kingdom to contain a figure for the total amount of tax paid on the goods and services purchased.

Bill read the First time; to be read a Second time on Friday 21 January, and to be printed (Bill 53).

Points of Order

John Bercow Excerpts

Tuesday 29th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Kevin Brennan (Cardiff West) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. This morning we lost an hour and a half of valuable debating time in Westminster Hall on the issue of apprenticeships, when the hon. Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham), whom I informed that I would raise this point of order, did not turn up at the appointed time. Incidentally, the Minister for apprenticeships, the hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr Hayes), was not present at the appointed time either, and the debate fell. To lose one Member might be considered unfortunate; to lose two seems like carelessness.

Is there anything that you can do, Mr Speaker, to reinstate the valuable time for that debate so that hon. Members such as myself who took time to prepare a speech can have the opportunity to deliver it to the House and have it recorded in Hansard? Could you also have a word with the Independent Parliamentary Standards Authority to see whether it will allow Conservative Members to claim for alarm clocks?

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order and for giving me advance notice of it. I understand that Members are disappointed to have missed the opportunity to debate the national apprenticeship scheme. I have received a letter of profuse apology from the hon. Member for Gloucester (Richard Graham), which I appreciate and I think the House will appreciate.

The smooth conduct of business requires keeping to set times for the start of debates, and it is important that all Members grasp that at the outset and keep it in the forefront of their minds. It is perhaps an object lesson for all of us early on in the new Parliament. I note the request that the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) made for the matters in question to be aired on another occasion. I cannot commit at this point, but I hope that there will be another chance for those important matters to be debated in the House.

As the hon. Member for Gloucester is in the Chamber, I think we would be pleased to hear from him.

[Richard Graham (Gloucester) (Con)]

Thank you, Mr Speaker. May I offer the hon. Member for Cardiff West (Kevin Brennan) and the House the same unreserved apology that I gave you earlier for my poor timekeeping this morning?

[Mr Speaker]

I am extremely grateful to the hon. Gentleman. I think that quite enough has been said. [Interruption.] Order. Members are getting ahead of me—or they think they are—but I know what I was thinking and they do not. They will now see what I was thinking, which is that it would be helpful for the House to hear from the hon. Member for South Holland and The Deepings (Mr Hayes), who is in his place. I know that he will be happy to comment.

[The Minister of State, Department for Business, Innovation and Skills (Mr John Hayes)]

That was literally irresistible. Of course, I should have been in my place as well. I arrived as the sitting was suspended by the relevant member of the Panel of Chairs. I apologised to him then, and I have also dropped a note to you, Mr Speaker, as you know.

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the Minister.

[Ian Paisley (North Antrim) (DUP)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I note that the particular bird has flown, but is it in order for a Member on the Front Bench to berate, scoff, scold and hiss at the Chair when a Member is trying to ask a question? Do you recognise that it is disrespectful to the House and the Chair, and, importantly, it also impedes a Member from asking a question and getting a sensible answer from the occupants of the Front Bench? Will the Speaker make it clear that his order covers not only Back Benchers but Front Benchers?

[Mr Speaker]

The hon. Gentleman is absolutely right about the last point. The writ of the Chair applies to all Members, irrespective of whether they sit on the Back or the Front Benches. On his particular point, I must say that nothing was recorded. I was focused at all times on the questions being asked, those seeking to ask them and Ministers answering them. However, respect for the Chair is important, and respect by one Member for another’s right to be heard without interruption is extremely important. I hope that it will not be necessary in the course of the new Parliament and the new politics for that point to have to be made again from the Chair. I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for highlighting an important matter.

[Mrs Anne McGuire (Stirling) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Last week in the Budget statement, the Chancellor said:

“Today there are some families receiving £104,000 a year in housing benefit. The cost of that single award is equivalent to the total income tax and national insurance paid by 16 working people on median incomes. It is clear that the system of housing benefit is in dire need of reform.”—[Official Report, 22 June 2010; Vol. 512, c. 174.]

In order to drill down into that—I promise I will get to the point of order in a second—I asked, with my hon. Friend the Member for Edinburgh North and Leith (Mark Lazarowicz), a parliamentary question of the Department for Work and Pensions. I had a reply today, which said:

“The information requested is not available.”

Has the Chancellor sought to rescind his statement about the £104,000 housing benefit? It has become common currency in the debate about reforming housing benefit, yet the Department tells me, as a Back Bencher, that the information is not available.

[Mr Speaker]

I thank the right hon. Lady for her point of order. I think that she is continuing a debate with some force, eloquence and insistence. She is an experienced Member and a distinguished former Minister, and the opportunity exists for her to table follow-up questions. I have a hunch that it will not be long before she avails herself of it.

[Mark Lazarowicz (Edinburgh North and Leith) (Lab/Co-op)]

Further to that point of order, Mr. Speaker.

--- Later in debate ---

[Mr Speaker]

Very well. I will take the hon. Gentleman on trust.

[Mark Lazarowicz]

My right hon. Friend the Member for Stirling (Mrs McGuire) referred to the question on that subject that was tabled in my name. In fact, I have tabled a written question today asking the Chancellor to give the evidential basis for the statement that he made in the Budget last week. Could you urge him to give a speedy answer to that question, in order to reassure the House that his assertions in the Budget speech were based on fact?

[Mr Speaker]

I do not think that it would be right for the hon. Gentleman to seek to draw me into these interesting exchanges. He has tabled a question, and an answer might be forthcoming. I note his reference to the importance of evidence, and I simply note in passing that we would be establishing a new precedent in the House if we were to regard it as mandatory for a Minister to provide evidence for the arguments that he or she was making.

[Steve Rotheram (Liverpool, Walton) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. Have you or your office been notified as to whether the Secretary of State for Culture, Olympics, Media and Sport will be coming to the House to apologise for the distress that his unacceptable comments about the Hillsborough disaster have caused to the families of the 96 who died, and to people right across the political and football divide?

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the hon. Gentleman for his point of order, and I understand the very strong feelings—including those of constituents—that will have motivated him to raise it. In response, I would say that the remarks complained of—which I am neither justifying nor condemning—were not made in the House, and that my clear understanding is that the Secretary of State has apologised for them. He has made a public apology, and the question of whether he seeks to make an apology or any other comment on the matter in the House is a matter for him. I am grateful to the hon. Member for Liverpool, Walton (Steve Rotheram) for raising the matter, and I hope that he feels that I have given him at least an informative response.

[John Hemming (Birmingham, Yardley) (LD)]

On an earlier point of order, Mr Speaker. In the previous Parliament, the Procedure Select Committee decided to establish a process whereby hon. Members could approach the Committee if they were unhappy with the nature of the answers that they received to written questions. I understand that, in this Parliament, we will continue to offer such an opportunity for people to put their complaints to the Committee, once it has been created.

[Mr Speaker]

That is a useful contribution to the continuation of point of order exchanges.

[Roberta Blackman-Woods (City of Durham) (Lab)]

On a point of order, Mr Speaker. I understand that important announcements have been made today on the abolition of the regional development agencies and the setting up of new local government structures to replace them. May I implore you, sir, to use your good offices to press Ministers to make statements of that nature in the House first, so that they can be properly debated?

[Mr Speaker]

I can say to the hon. Lady that I am aware of concerns about this matter, and there will be an opportunity to explore it. On the procedural point that she raises, I am conscious of and looking into the matter. I hope that that is helpful.

Free Schools Policy

John Bercow Excerpts

Monday 21st June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Speaker]

I am grateful to the Secretary of State, but just as a point of clarification—because we must not mislead the public—Ministers do not ask questions but answer them. It would be wrong to give people the impression that the shadow Secretary of State has a right to come back to the Dispatch Box during this exchange. He has not—he has had his say—and we must not mislead people to the contrary.

[Jane Ellison (Battersea) (Con)]

Has the Secretary of State had a chance to meet people from the neighbourhood school campaign in my constituency, who have already made considerable progress towards the establishment of a new secondary school in Wandsworth—a campaign that I note that the shadow Secretary of State supported prior to the election?

--- Later in debate ---

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. I am grateful to colleagues for their co-operation, but all good things come to an end. Time is pressing and we must move on.

[Ed Balls]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

The shadow Secretary of State will know that points of order come after statements, so he will have to raise his point of order later.

Building a High-Skilled Economy

John Bercow Excerpts

Thursday 17th June 2010 Commons Chamber

[Mr Hayes]

We cannot allow this to stand, can we? I hope that I wear the weight

“Of learning lightly like a flower”,

in the words of Tennyson. I also hope that that learning might inform the thinking of the House on apprenticeships. Of course some of the new apprenticeships will be adult apprenticeships and some will be for young people, and of course some will be about upskilling and some about reskilling, but to suggest that the people involved will simply be those currently taught under Train to Gain is nonsense. The hon. Gentleman knows what the National Audit Office said about that scheme: 25% dead-weight cost.

[Mr Speaker]

Order. May I say to the Minister that the erudition of his intervention was equalled only by its length? Although it is a joy to listen to his mellifluous tones, I hope that not all such interventions will be of equal length.

[Kevin Brennan]

It is a joy to listen to the Minister, and I am glad that he at last came up with some poetry and quoted Tennyson’s words that one should wear learning lightly. Perhaps I could come back with some Alexander Pope:

“A little learning is a dang’rous thing;

Drink deep, or taste not the Pierian spring”.

The vast number of people who will take up the Minister’s proposals will already be in work, and they will be in the older, not the younger, age bracket. He may prove my prediction wrong in future, but he does not have a rule to ensure that the apprenticeships are for younger workers—under-25s—or one to ensure that apprenticeships are for new starts only. If he wants to talk about dead weight, he should calculate the dead weight of his proposal in respect of the training that would have happened anyway.

The Minister also needs to tell us how he will drive up apprenticeships elsewhere—in the public sector, for example. How will he use procurement to help that? Unless he shows leadership—I say this to him candidly and sincerely—and knocks heads together in the Government, that will not happen. All he will get from his colleagues will be that one-note symphony that we have heard so far from the Government, like the vuvuzelas in the World cup, saying that nothing can be done on public sector apprenticeships because of cuts. That is what he will be told. My advice to him is this: he needs to fight, fight and fight again against Treasury orthodoxy on behalf of apprenticeships if he wants to make an impact as a Minister.

It is clear that the Minister’s enjoyable and occasionally flowery rhetoric—if he will forgive me for saying so—hides a prosaic reality in the Department for Business, Innovation and Skills. The Secretary of State really wants to be in charge of the banks but has been walked all over by the Chancellor of the Exchequer in that ambition and, in an age-old Treasury way, has had his pocket picked over FE, skills, capital and revenue; and the Universities and Science Minister, who really wants to be the Secretary of State and deeply resents the Liberal Democrat succubus who now has his job, has, in his absent-minded, dual-brained, batty, professorial way, carelessly mislaid 10,000 university places since the election. It is no wonder that in the confusion, the Treasury has been able to bamboozle a Department that has two heads and three brains. Now we have proposals for capital and apprenticeships that are not all that they seem.

If we are going to build Britain’s skills for the future, we need strong, united leadership from the Department, not weak, divided leadership hidden by the Minister’s baroque oratory. His words are fine for now, but unless he starts standing up for skills, his flowery rhetoric will wilt under the heat of political reality.

[Several hon. Members]

rose—

[Mr Speaker]

Order. As I think the House will be aware, the debate is heavily subscribed, and I therefore impose a 10-minute limit on Back-Bench speeches, to apply with immediate effect.